Messages

If you buy a real estate property, the ultimate guarantor of your ownership is the state and relevant local

That argument debunked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiSYxaomjhU&feature=player_embedded

Meal chi - is this the only charge you feel strongly on. What about income tax, car tax, car insurance, esb line rental, bin charges, water meters

Income tax pays and has paid for services for years no problem with that,motor tax pays for roads upkeep and building new roads again no problem with that,bin charges no problem with that either,water charges Im opposed to central taxation already covers water, problem with double taxation, household charge  I do have a problem with,

I do however have an issue the household charge.property tax, the vast amount of people have already paid stamp duty/ tax on their homes already, and now being asked to pay a recurring yearly tax just to live in their own homes, double taxation,I view that as form of theft or I should say extortion, to tax someone for living in their home to bailout a third party, ie the banks.

Most people know the difference difference between a property tax and rent.If I rent an apartment, I have to pay a tax – which is called rent – to stay in that apartment.

Likewise, if I live on my own land, in my own house, I am now also being asked to pay rent – which is called a tax – a property tax – to stay on that land and in that house.

So is there any difference between rent and property tax?

If I cease to pay my rent to my landlord for his apartment, the consequences of that action are for the landlord to evict me, of course. This I understand, for it is not my property for which I am living.

But what about my own land and home I have already purchased?

The home that Im supposed to own outright, having paid all debt owed for that land and home? What if I cease to pay my rent (in the form of property taxes) to my landlord (who is the government)? What will happen?

I guess by now most of you are aware of the threats of fines the goverment has promised.

A

I've heard a lot from people with the same mindset as Meal chi who seem to be ignoring that most developed countries - and plenty of developing ones - levy some sort of tax or charge on land-based property,

I paid my property tax aka stamp duty already, I am not paying again,the argument its in other countries don,t wash with me, what other countries do and don,t mean it has to be copied, also you fail to mention the other part of how property tax works in the states, if someone loses their job and can,t afford to pay the property tax, their house/property gets seized. is this what you re in favour of happening here?

If you buy a real estate property,
the ultimate guarantor of your ownership is the state and relevant local authorities

I get it, what you re really saying is despite the fact people spent years and years paying off their mortgage and all debts on their property, its never finally theirs,the real owner based on condition of a property tax is the goverment,trust me I sure get it and a lot of other people do too.

it can have a moral justification to put a tax or levy on the owners of such property or land

How can you defend an Uninvited third party extorting money in the form of rent from property owners to pay rent to the goverment? are you a member of Fine Gael by any chance? by the looks of your post you re promoting the party line about the household charge?

where the state recognises your claim and be its guarantor

Aka protection money, pay your money, everything will be fine,but if you don,t get there shall be Implications, I get that also and a lot of other people do too, Judging from your entire post its very clear you re in favour of a modern Feudalism.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5q81-DruVvk

However Joe Higgins and his cronies go to war on a €100 annual charge

I still laugh when people say its only  €100.

Most people are well aware if it were to succeed, it would be €1000 combined with water charges, and most people just cannot afford that,a signifigant amount of people around other parts of the country who have signed up for non payment have already said we are not signing up out of principle, we are signing up simply because we won,t and don,t have that kinda money the goverment will be looking for in relation to a full property tax, the goverment cannot get a blood out of a stone, and in their own words succesfully tax us out of a recession

But my original point still stands, irresponsible of the td's to adapt such a stance. If they dont want to pay it then thats their own business, however in encouraging non payment they potentially have set a dangerous precedent.

There will always be comformists like you who will accept any status quo, there are others who will not and I praise them, for those who say breaking the law, if you re saying its Illegal to boycott and refuse to pay the household charge, you re saying its Illegal to own your own private property, like the poll tax, laws that do not serve the Interests of the vast Majority will be broken whether you like it or not.

But since you have tha view the status quo should always be upheld, do you think Rossa Parks was wrong when she broke the law by refusing to give up her seat? do you think those who broke the law by refusing to pay the poll tax were wrong? What about the protesters in Cairo do you they wrong to break the law, when they refused to leave the square?

What about The masses who take the streets in Libya, Syria or currently in Russia all broke the law – are you suggesting they should be all imprisoned? South Africa, the former Soviet Union, civil rights movements in the US, N.Ireland.

Grow up – if you want to pay the charge off you go leave the rest of us to fight being.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1217/breaking1.html

Looks like no one will be going to jail over this.

To address the rumours of taking from welfare/wages, At the moment its only talk,some points Il make on that, one under present law they can,t do it,two ifs doubtful they can change the law to do it both legally and constitionly, thirdly for arguments sake lets say they could do under present law it would still require a court order,and with signifigant amount of people refusing to pay the courts would be very clogged up,fourth the can,t pay/won,t pay campaign has a legal team ready to challenge such stuff in court and to defend all non payers.

The realisation that people were willing to go to jail in opposition to this regressive tax led the government to attempt to change tactics.

CAHWT members discussed the possibility of this strategy being used by the establishment as long as eighteen months ago and how it could be counteracted. For every tactic the government adopts, the CAHWT has a range of ways of dealing with them.

The implementation of this tactic will still lead to a major problem for the government trying to impose it through the courts and that does not take into account other measures of opposition that the CAHWT will launch.

I don't think some people have actually cottoned on to what this means as of yet. This is a tax on your home, it is not a service charge. I have already paid thousands of pounds/euros in taxes on my home so I could own it outright. What this is saying is,I don't own it. It is not like tax on your car, where once you've paid vat or registration tax, the car is yours to do what you like with, any further tax you pay is for access to a public service. This is feudalism by another name. I'm opposed to the fact that the Government wants to be given a stake in my home, which I have bought and paid for.

The roof over my head is a basic necessity, not a luxory.

I've paid the mortgage on it. With this so called 'household charge', I never going to own it, this basic necessity, In years to come as the charge increases, I be paying the equivalent of the mortgage I just paid, if this charge is established and not resisted, it will never be reversed.

A house is a product, not a service, just as are the clothes in your wardrobe or the food in your fridge. You don't continue to pay tax on clothes while you're wearing them, or milk while you're drinking it, or bread while you're eating it.

Under no circumstances will I pay,Having the read the legistration, if you register, they can seek any Information they wish about your property, its not just records of owners as some people may think, I for one won,t be registering, my house is my own private property, and the goverment has no business seeking any Information about my private property end of story

.