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GAA Discussion => GAA Discussion => Topic started by: Abble on May 13, 2008, 07:53:47 AM

Title: "Underage games toughest to ref"
Post by: Abble on May 13, 2008, 07:53:47 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/7396731.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/7396731.stm)

have to agree....reffed at underage myself for one year hoping to maybe progress over a few years through to senior eventually.
unfortunately my head was wrecked with parents shouting from the lines.

i'd be doing an u-12 game.....wee lads just looking for a bit of craic, play some football and enjoy themselves. then if some decision did not go the way of a team or more likely some parents son, then you'd be let know about it, next thing the abuse is raised a notch, getting into more serious territory.....all the while, the wee lads are hearing this....what must they be wondering and then they have to be thinking, "do, i really want to play gaelic?" if my mummy or daddy is shouting all this over a simple mistake.

i knew things were only going to get worse as i've seen some abuse handed out to refs further on up to senior.....so it wasn't worth it....all i wanted to do was help officiate a few underage games initially and theres no way its worth it.


another thing, when the young players on the pitch hear the abuse from the lines from their parents, then who follows suit ? yes, the young players and then the discipline is totally out the window and once they get away with it once then they'll continue on with it
Title: Re: "Underage games toughest to ref"
Post by: Goats Do Shave on May 13, 2008, 08:27:34 AM
To be fair you'd be a woeful ref!!!  :D
Title: Re: "Underage games toughest to ref"
Post by: rrhf on May 13, 2008, 08:51:22 AM
Surely there has to be a clause about bringing the game into disrepute for referees.  Aaargh!
Title: Re: "Underage games toughest to ref"
Post by: Zapatista on May 13, 2008, 08:59:05 AM
Chittychitty Bang Bang

Child Catcher: There are children here somewhere. I can smell them. :o
Title: Re: "Underage games toughest to ref"
Post by: thejuice on May 13, 2008, 09:21:01 AM
But seriously it is a problem, I've seen parents rightly thrown of the premises of under-age games. I know its tough but I think the decent parents need to stand up to those shouting and tell them to shut up or leave. Some of the things thats said shouldnt be said around kids, and it just brings a horrible athmosphere to the games.  Its no surprise that certain players have a terrible attitude to referees later on if their parents carried on like this.
Title: Re: "Underage games toughest to ref"
Post by: orangeman on May 13, 2008, 09:30:12 AM
If an intercounty referee can't handle under 12 challenge matches, he should pack it in, go home, stay at home and take up tiddly winks !
Title: Re: "Underage games toughest to ref"
Post by: Zapatista on May 13, 2008, 09:37:51 AM
If an intercounty referee can't handle under 12 challenge matches, he should pack it in, go home, stay at home and take up tiddly winks !

Fair enough but if it is a place for training up new refs and they are packing it in due to parents then that is a concern.
Title: Re: "Underage games toughest to ref"
Post by: orangeman on May 13, 2008, 09:38:47 AM
If an intercounty referee can't handle under 12 challenge matches, he should pack it in, go home, stay at home and take up tiddly winks !

Fair enough but if it is a place for training up new refs and they are packing it in due to parents then that is a concern.


You're right but if Hughes can't handle it, he should just forget about it !
Title: Re: "Underage games toughest to ref"
Post by: Main Street on May 13, 2008, 11:18:22 AM
If an intercounty referee can't handle under 12 challenge matches, he should pack it in, go home, stay at home and take up tiddly winks !

Fair enough but if it is a place for training up new refs and they are packing it in due to parents then that is a concern.

You're right but if Hughes can't handle it, he should just forget about it !
Abuse at an u12 challenge game?
Why should Hughes tolerate severe abuse from the parents?
He handled it quite fine.
Every ref should act in a similar manner at underage games if faced with abusive parents.





Title: Re: "Underage games toughest to ref"
Post by: Zapatista on May 13, 2008, 11:34:24 AM
If an intercounty referee can't handle under 12 challenge matches, he should pack it in, go home, stay at home and take up tiddly winks !

Fair enough but if it is a place for training up new refs and they are packing it in due to parents then that is a concern.

You're right but if Hughes can't handle it, he should just forget about it !
Abuse at an u12 challenge game?
Why should Hughes tolerate severe abuse from the parents?
He handled it quite fine.
Every ref should act in a similar manner at underage games if faced with abusive parents.


This is quite well documented in a Simpsons episode. Flanders gives in to Homers abuse and it turns out to be a catastrophe. "Flaaaaannnnnddeerrrrrrrrrssssss!!!!!!!"
Title: Re: "Underage games toughest to ref"
Post by: screenexile on May 13, 2008, 11:38:45 AM
I remember an U12 Championship final that our club played in against the Underage kingpins at the time about 13 odd years ago and when our Full Forward was kicking a penalty he was berated by the crowd of the opposing team and a well known club official who is a teacher of secondary school children proceeded to call him a w**ker right up until he hit the back of the net. We won the game anyway!!

When I was U12 I played in a county Hurling final only for the 2 opposing managers to have a full on fist fight on the sideline which resulted in them wrestling eachother onto the middle of the pitch and the game having to be stopped until it was sorted out!

U12 is every bit as crazy as Senior to a lot of people and I do not find this article surprising at all. I think something MAJOR needs to be done for people to get a bit of perspective and to realise that U12 is about the kid's enjoyment of the game and not winning a feckin championship... has anyone ever watched the Mighty Ducks??!!
Title: Re: "Underage games toughest to ref"
Post by: rrhf on May 13, 2008, 11:42:47 AM
Im sure they are tough, I doubt very much  Hughes ever has had to walk off the pitch during a local under 12 game -  If he has trouble then he should not be at any level above that.  I think hes made an error of judgement here as this PR drive will only lose him respect. 
Title: Re: "Underage games toughest to ref"
Post by: magpie seanie on May 13, 2008, 11:52:30 AM
Hughes is a shite referee and that's probably the biggest problem.
Title: Re: "Underage games toughest to ref"
Post by: themanwhowasntthere on May 13, 2008, 11:55:13 AM
Add in the fact that, at U-12 level, there are frequently more mentors on the pitch, reliving their so-called playing days, than there are players on the pitch - sometimes it's hard to keep the game going for the kids, due to the numbers of wannabee adults on the field, all of whom are usually screaming & shouting.
Title: Re: "Underage games toughest to ref"
Post by: stew on May 13, 2008, 12:22:54 PM
I am coaching a girls U14 team in the aul sawker this year, this past Saturday the parents of the opposing team were so bad from the line that the referee stopped the game and abandoned the match,strangely enough he didnt like the parents shouting to their kids to 'break the f**king bitches leg' etc. The game was forty minutes old when this happened and they were getting stuffed 5-1 at the time.

The referee was called all sorts of things, one of my kids got slapped in the bake and another one got spat on, i didnt know this until the match was abandoned.

Referees need to be protected from abuse, how we have people still willing to ref games is beyond me, fair play to them all.............. except for that bastard gobshite Bannon. ;)
Title: Re: "Underage games toughest to ref"
Post by: Main Street on May 13, 2008, 12:27:59 PM
Im sure they are tough, I doubt very much  Hughes ever has had to walk off the pitch during a local under 12 game


Why do you doubt the report?

Quote
 If he has trouble then he should not be at any level above that.
 

Exactly how should a referee deal with extremly abusive parents on the sidelines,
showering 12 years olds with abuse and showering the ref with abuse.
Title: Re: "Underage games toughest to ref"
Post by: Maximus Marillius on May 13, 2008, 12:41:51 PM
on the other side I was at an u 10 match and the ref was terrible....I don't mean cheating...just bad and he was from the other club....head high tackles, the lot. Our u10 manager went mental and was literally up in the refs face about his lack of reffing and protection for the kids on both sides. I thought he was 100% right
Title: Re: "Underage games toughest to ref"
Post by: Abble on May 13, 2008, 12:44:56 PM
for any child turning up to play underage football its all about learning and enjoyment.

when a ref is looking forward to throwing the ball up to start a game and enjoy the next 60 minutes of football (i'm talking about an ordinary league game on a summers evening, not even championship finals) and then the shouting starts from parents, it spoils it for everyone....

the thing is this shouting comes from parents who didnt make the grade themselves at any level, who were probably not much use at anything come to think of it and are usually always a bit short in the brains department and when anyone tries to reason with them it's a total waste of time.
Title: Re: "Underage games toughest to ref"
Post by: rrhf on May 13, 2008, 01:09:52 PM

Im sure they are tough, I doubt very much  Hughes ever has had to walk off the pitch during a local under 12 game

Why do you doubt the report?
I just dont believe him at all. Is that fine with you?

If he has trouble then he should not be at any level above that.
Exactly how should a referee deal with extremly abusive parents on the sidelines,
showering 12 years olds with abuse and showering the ref with abuse.
Within the forums of the GAA and not on BBC radio Ulster.  Is that fine with you?
Title: Re: "Underage games toughest to ref"
Post by: heffo on May 13, 2008, 01:49:37 PM
Im sure they are tough, I doubt very much  Hughes ever has had to walk off the pitch during a local under 12 game


Why do you doubt the report?

Quote
If he has trouble then he should not be at any level above that.


Exactly how should a referee deal with extremly abusive parents on the sidelines,
showering 12 years olds with abuse and showering the ref with abuse.



He should stop the game, tell the person(s) that their behaviour is unacceptable, and that it it continues, he'll order him away from the pitch/ground etc.

It's not always that easy when you have a 15 year old ref being intimidated by a group of adults, but that's exactly what the ref should do.

He should then include the details of the abuse in his match report, the CCC1 should then write to the secretary of said club requesting that the club names the individual involved, regardless of whether he's simply a parent of one of the kids and not a club member per-se - the club can then be fined for not controlling their supporters and the individual(s) involved suspended. A 500 or 1,000 fine for a club can be a very effective detterant.

Unfortunatly, what the ref say's is true and the abuse that goes on is awful.

I was at a game last year where a parent from the losing team (big guy in his forties) tried to go for a 15 year old ref after an U12 game - luckily for the youngfella I was there and was able to step in and tell the guy a few hom truths.
Title: Re: "Underage games toughest to ref"
Post by: his holiness nb on May 13, 2008, 01:57:40 PM
Surely the clubs should pull these parents aside and tell them to wise up?

Or maybe deduct points from the team if the parents are abusive.
Harsh but it would really show the parents up to be doing exactly what they are doing, letting the kids down.
Title: Re: "Underage games toughest to ref"
Post by: Tyrones own on May 14, 2008, 02:10:43 AM
Quote
the thing is this shouting comes from parents who didnt make the grade themselves at any level, who were probably not much use at anything come to think of it and are usually always a bit short in the brains department and when anyone tries to reason with them it's a total waste of time.


 Definitely agree with that, idiots that try to live precariously through their kids from the side line is very sad.
Title: Re: "Underage games toughest to ref"
Post by: RedandGreenSniper on May 14, 2008, 07:25:31 AM
I remember an incident involving two neighbouring clubs in an under 10 game where a young lad from one club threw a bad oul punch at someone from the opposition. Clearly out of order but the manager of the lad that got hit decided to take the matter into his own hands and chased after the offending lad like a man deranged. He would have got to him too only for he was intercepted while the young lad ran for his life.

Why do we see this type of behaviour at the lower age grades, where the value of winning isn't as important, than we do at the more competitive grades like minor and senior? It defies logic
Title: Re: "Underage games toughest to ref"
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on May 14, 2008, 08:42:07 AM
I help coach the young lads in our local parish.  At under 10 lvel it is not competitive and thankfully is not taken too seriously.  Some of our boy can be a bit sharp with the lip and if one of us is refereeing or the other teams managers, then if there is any lip the young lad is taken off to cool down. 

Thankfully there is very little abuse as all the teams we have played against take the same sort of approach as we do, that it is just a bit of fun at this stage.  Michael Hughes is a poor referee, and that is nothing to do with personal issues I have had with him.  He tries to be very strict on the field and comes across as inept.  He is too short tempered to have the respect of people involved in the game.
Title: Re: "Underage games toughest to ref"
Post by: Lar Naparka on May 14, 2008, 10:17:41 AM
Quote
If an intercounty referee can't handle under 12 challenge matches, he should pack it in, go home, stay at home and take up tiddly winks !

Oh Yeah???
How bout this then?
I was reffing a schools match once. It would more or less be an u12 game.
There were four or five parents on the sideline and all of them definitely needed serious counselling. Mammies who drag younger kids along are an occupational hazard and few if any of them ever come along for the sake of watching a group of kids play a game of football but thats another matter.
One oul fella in particular was getting out of hand. He kept running on to the field and his language was shocking.
His own kid was in tears with embarrassment and asked me to do something to shut the bloody eejit up. I had enough finally when he ran twenty yard or so onto the pitch and swung a belt at a kid from the other side.
So I went over and told him Id be available  after the game and if he was still around Id leave him with more than a few kids to worry about. :D
I marched him off the pitch and out of the ground and reminded him that Id be ready after the kids had left the ground to sort matters out.
I thought that was the end of that and his own kid was the first to thank me.
So far so good. Somehow the header managed to get half way up a telegraph pole and continued his commentary from there!
Its tiddlywinks for me every time. ;D

Title: Re: "Underage games toughest to ref"
Post by: Cuchulainns Ard Mhacha on May 14, 2008, 11:18:48 AM
Im sure they are tough, I doubt very much  Hughes ever has had to walk off the pitch during a local under 12 game


Why do you doubt the report?

Quote
If he has trouble then he should not be at any level above that.


Exactly how should a referee deal with extremly abusive parents on the sidelines,
showering 12 years olds with abuse and showering the ref with abuse.



He should stop the game, tell the person(s) that their behaviour is unacceptable, and that it it continues, he'll order him away from the pitch/ground etc.

It's not always that easy when you have a 15 year old ref being intimidated by a group of adults, but that's exactly what the ref should do.

He should then include the details of the abuse in his match report, the CCC1 should then write to the secretary of said club requesting that the club names the individual involved, regardless of whether he's simply a parent of one of the kids and not a club member per-se - the club can then be fined for not controlling their supporters and the individual(s) involved suspended. A 500 or 1,000 fine for a club can be a very effective detterant.

Unfortunatly, what the ref say's is true and the abuse that goes on is awful.

I was at a game last year where a parent from the losing team (big guy in his forties) tried to go for a 15 year old ref after an U12 game - luckily for the youngfella I was there and was able to step in and tell the guy a few hom truths.

I referee within Armagh County both codes, only started last year and im 20years old
I understand where you're coming from with the taking of names and fines for clubs, and also that incident where you mentioned with the guy going for the referee at the end of the game has also happened to myself only last year.


I have to say the worst of abuse is at U12 level, im truthfully sick of refereeing them shitty games where you as a referee cant make a right decision becuase someone is always on your back,
i'll tell you can give me U16games,  minor games and senior games any day. You might get abuse but it is minimal compared to youth.