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Non GAA Discussion => General discussion => Topic started by: Fear Boirche on June 20, 2007, 11:03:19 AM

Title: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Fear Boirche on June 20, 2007, 11:03:19 AM
Purely by chance, I was listening to Nolan on Radio Ulster this morning and there was this guy from the country complaining that he had been told by the DOE that he could not burn his own bushes because of some environmental law. Anyway, his gripe was that while he was told this, 100s of bonfires were being built and would be lit on the 11th night. Cue a string of callers (including an elected counciller Pauline Armitage? I think) to come on and tell him to 'wind his neck in' and say that if he wants to burn anything, he can burn it on the 11th night. The poor guy was getting more and more frustrated that nobody got his point. Of course, the useless lump of lard Nolan did nothing to help the guy and let the pack of wolves loose on him.

Near where I live in Belfast, there is an unsightly stack which has been getting built since about Easter. I know bonfires are part of Protestant tradition and all that, but having them in housing estates is wrong. The authorities do next to nothing to stop these fires which invariably encourage people to dump any oul shite at the side of the road. And then whenever anybody raises a legitmate point about the safety of them, they're attacking Protestant culture. It's a joke. What's cultural about having a fire in the middle of your street.
Title: 11th night bonfires
Post by: 5 Sams on June 20, 2007, 11:28:38 AM
I remember when I was a student getting the bus to Belfast on the 11th with a mate of mine and going down the Donegal Road past one of the bonfires....mate says to me....."fcuk....whoever put thon tricolour on the top of that had some balls...I wonder did they catch him!!" ???
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: mooncatiii on June 20, 2007, 11:46:15 AM
Purely by chance, I was listening to Nolan on Radio Ulster this morning and there was this guy from the country complaining that he had been told by the DOE that he could not burn his own bushes because of some environmental law. Anyway, his gripe was that while he was told this, 100s of bonfires were being built and would be lit on the 11th night. Cue a string of callers (including an elected counciller Pauline Armitage? I think) to come on and tell him to 'wind his neck in' and say that if he wants to burn anything, he can burn it on the 11th night. The poor guy was getting more and more frustrated that nobody got his point. Of course, the useless lump of lard Nolan did nothing to help the guy and let the pack of wolves loose on him.

Near where I live in Belfast, there is an unsightly stack which has been getting built since about Easter. I know bonfires are part of Protestant tradition and all that, but having them in housing estates is wrong. The authorities do next to nothing to stop these fires which invariably encourage people to dump any oul shite at the side of the road. And then whenever anybody raises a legitmate point about the safety of them, they're attacking Protestant culture. It's a joke. What's cultural about having a fire in the middle of your street.

i can understand his gripe, i know of a fella who was driving a few hundred yards away from a roundabout in craigavon where people where dumping rubbish for the bonfire, when he flicked a cigarette out the window a few days later a letter came in the post with a £50 littering fine.  the police must have been around and booked him!

i wonder if they booked the people dumping the rubbish on the roundabout
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: T Fearon on June 20, 2007, 11:46:51 AM
Newry on the 14/15th August also isn't exactly environmentally friendly either!
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: hitzelsperger on June 20, 2007, 03:00:15 PM
whats worse is these c**ts get grants and stuff to help fund the building of bonfires...pure and utter joke!
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Evil Genius on June 20, 2007, 03:41:04 PM
Purely by chance, I was listening to Nolan on Radio Ulster this morning and there was this guy from the country complaining that he had been told by the DOE that he could not burn his own bushes because of some environmental law. Anyway, his gripe was that while he was told this, 100s of bonfires were being built and would be lit on the 11th night. Cue a string of callers (including an elected counciller Pauline Armitage? I think) to come on and tell him to 'wind his neck in' and say that if he wants to burn anything, he can burn it on the 11th night. The poor guy was getting more and more frustrated that nobody got his point. Of course, the useless lump of lard Nolan did nothing to help the guy and let the pack of wolves loose on him.

Near where I live in Belfast, there is an unsightly stack which has been getting built since about Easter. I know bonfires are part of Protestant tradition and all that, but having them in housing estates is wrong. The authorities do next to nothing to stop these fires which invariably encourage people to dump any oul shite at the side of the road. And then whenever anybody raises a legitmate point about the safety of them, they're attacking Protestant culture. It's a joke. What's cultural about having a fire in the middle of your street.

Spot on, FB.

As an expression of culture, the sort of carry on which goes on at the worst of these events is on a par with other "cultural" activites like joyriding, drug dealing or sniffing glue.

Tbh, the majority of Prods are increasingly sickened/embarrassed by this annual crap, but are in no better position to complain than you are, since we risk getting the shit beaten out of us (or worse), just the same.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: nifan on June 20, 2007, 03:50:40 PM
I dont go near the things, and I cringe everytime i see a tricolour at the top of a bonfire.

If they are going to have them the should be in approved areas and properly, safely monitored.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: his holiness nb on June 20, 2007, 04:32:27 PM
What is it about bonfires anyway?
Even at Halloween down here they seem to attract the lowest of society.
Maybe its a return to the caveman instinct, or they are just the type of people who like to see things burn?
I dont get it.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on June 20, 2007, 04:53:48 PM
It's long been a tradition to have a bonfire in many parts of the west of Ireland on June the 23rd or St John's night and even these are now coming under the glare of enviromental laws and these bonfires would be small compared to the building sized ones up north.

Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: guy crouchback on June 20, 2007, 04:57:23 PM
Bonfire night in thew west of ireland is june 22.  when i was a kid it was a massive deal with a town the size of ballina having 6 or 7 big bonfiers some with BBQ's and bands. there would also be smaller fires and in the country every village and townland would have at leat 1.
over the years it seems to have gotten smaller but i think this is down to the growth of the town and ther being less space and tighter rules on smoke pollution ect.

while there was always great compition between the kids from  different parts of town over who had the best fire and raids on each others fires were common there was never any trouble and there were and are very much family affairs.

edit just spotted i had got the date wrong it is june 23
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Deal_Me_In on June 20, 2007, 05:06:11 PM
What is the need to have such large bonfire on the 11th night anyway? If it is a celebration (supposedly) for one night why is there a need for a fire that burns for about 24Hrs and then continues to smoulder for about another 2 days?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on June 22, 2007, 09:02:13 AM
Could a Farmer not have a bonfire on the 11th night? Thereby getting round the laws that prevent him from burning things on his land.


No because as Dunseith and Ugly Betty (sorry Arlene) said a farmer burning the agricultural waste is not a cultural event, yet a crowd of bigots burning tyres, sofas, pallets (which are normally worth about £20 each!?!?!) and various other waste is a cultural event - only here!  >:(

Farmers are having it hard enough without the added burden and cost of disposal of the waste.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Bensars on June 22, 2007, 09:29:43 AM
In the same interview, there was a guy who claims he was fined £5000 for an "unoffical" bonfire. Whats Better again is that the contents of these bonfires are on the whole obviously stolen, otherwise there are very generous pallet donators.

On a side note i  remember well in the early 90's a very good friend of mine, who obviously shall remain nameless, came out of the Crescent Bar ( mainly a dirty student dive with cheap drink ) with the bottom of sandy row  oppisite the sandy row rangers supporters club , and took exception to the bonfire. At this stage it was about 25ft high with a guys supposedly guarding it. 

  To Cut a long story short he went back in the middle of the night and lit er'.  Close to the 12th and bonfire gone...........oh how we laughed !!
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Hardy on June 22, 2007, 09:36:36 AM
 :D :D :D
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Orior on July 05, 2017, 09:12:56 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-40437158 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-40437158)

Oh dear, looks like the bonfire on the Comber Greenway at Holywood Arches went aff early last night.

Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Orior on July 05, 2017, 09:14:54 AM
But hang on, maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel. The councils are applying to be the Capital of Culture.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-40499143 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-40499143)

Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: seafoid on July 05, 2017, 09:42:30 AM
Are bonfires part of Protestant culture anywhere other than the north of Ireland? Do Swedes burn bonfires with tricolours in them? Did Luther specify bonfires in his 95 conditions?
Maybe bonfires are a replacement for a shared protestant history in NI. Were there bonfires in july in the 1500s?
Joyce Carol Oates said that humans are the species that invents symbols in which to represent power and authority and then forgets that they are symbols. 
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: MoChara on July 05, 2017, 10:04:25 AM
Are bonfires part of Protestant culture anywhere other than the north of Ireland? Do Swedes burn bonfires with tricolours in them? Did Luther specify bonfires in his 95 conditions?
Maybe bonfires are a replacement for a shared protestant history in NI. Were there bonfires in july in the 1500s?
Joyce Carol Oates said that humans are the species that invents symbols in which to represent power and authority and then forgets that they are symbols.

But the bonfires aren't explicitly to celebrate Protestantism its supposed to be in remembrance of the natives lighting fires to help Williamite ships find their way down Belfast Lough to Carrickfergus.

 It may be used for triumphalism in the North but that isn't supposedly the stated intent.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Orior on July 05, 2017, 10:47:19 AM
Are bonfires part of Protestant culture anywhere other than the north of Ireland? Do Swedes burn bonfires with tricolours in them? Did Luther specify bonfires in his 95 conditions?
Maybe bonfires are a replacement for a shared protestant history in NI. Were there bonfires in july in the 1500s?
Joyce Carol Oates said that humans are the species that invents symbols in which to represent power and authority and then forgets that they are symbols.

I though there were several plantations, the earliest was in the 17th century, not the 16th.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: seafoid on July 05, 2017, 11:04:31 AM
Are bonfires part of Protestant culture anywhere other than the north of Ireland? Do Swedes burn bonfires with tricolours in them? Did Luther specify bonfires in his 95 conditions?
Maybe bonfires are a replacement for a shared protestant history in NI. Were there bonfires in july in the 1500s?
Joyce Carol Oates said that humans are the species that invents symbols in which to represent power and authority and then forgets that they are symbols.

I though there were several plantations, the earliest was in the 17th century, not the 16th.
Were they not there forever? Was Cuchulainn ot a unionist ?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: seafoid on July 05, 2017, 11:30:36 AM
Are bonfires part of Protestant culture anywhere other than the north of Ireland? Do Swedes burn bonfires with tricolours in them? Did Luther specify bonfires in his 95 conditions?
Maybe bonfires are a replacement for a shared protestant history in NI. Were there bonfires in july in the 1500s?
Joyce Carol Oates said that humans are the species that invents symbols in which to represent power and authority and then forgets that they are symbols.

I though there were several plantations, the earliest was in the 17th century, not the 16th.
The first one was after ONeill left which was 17th century. The parades and bonfires are symbols od domination, for which a majority is required. Groupthink is hard to tweak.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: BenDover on July 05, 2017, 03:33:48 PM
Was over at Avoniel leisure centre today and there's a bonfire going up in the grounds there. Mad.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Taylor on July 05, 2017, 04:00:51 PM
With the added focus on the DUP now from the UK media you can be sure they will be trying to keep a lid on things this year.

Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: armaghniac on July 05, 2017, 04:30:43 PM
With the added focus on the DUP now from the UK media you can be sure they will be trying to keep a lid on things this year.

The losers involved with these things haven't enough intelligence to be concerned with public relations.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: T Fearon on July 05, 2017, 04:44:26 PM
As a small child growing up in Portadown pre troubles I recall going to 11th night bonfires and I wasnt the only catholic.Too young to understand what it was about but got crisps and minerals like all the other kids and it seemed very harmless then compared to now.

I assume the working or unemployed class protestant insecurity factor now is manifest in bigger and bigger bonfires sadly.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: tiempo on July 05, 2017, 05:09:03 PM
As a small child growing up in Portadown pre troubles I recall going to 11th night bonfires and I wasnt the only catholic.Too young to understand what it was about but got crisps and minerals like all the other kids and it seemed very harmless then compared to now.

I assume the working or unemployed class protestant insecurity factor now is manifest in bigger and bigger bonfires sadly.

Dig it down deep throw it way out wide there Tone.

fmsfonline.org
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: T Fearon on July 05, 2017, 07:34:53 PM
I am also of the opinion that the Orange Order would be all but irrelevant now had SF's policy of protesting not revived an organisation whose membership had dwindled seriously in the early 90s.
Best thing to do with parades and bonfires is ignore them
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: red hander on July 05, 2017, 07:48:53 PM
I am also of the opinion that the Orange Order would be all but irrelevant now had SF's policy of protesting not revived an organisation whose membership had dwindled seriously in the early 90s.
Best thing to do with parades and bonfires is ignore them

Croppies lie down, let them trail their coats and walk all over you. Aye, right. You talk of your experience in Portadown. I've family from the Tunnel and I know well what the people of Obins Street and Parkside had to put up with in the 70s/80s, and what the people of Garvaghy Road had to deal with in 90s. Around 25 years ago the RUC forced an Orange parade through the 100% nationalist Panda estate in Dungannon. The b**tards even broke down doors to arrest people waving tricolours from their own bedroom windows and charged them with behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace ... needless to say the judge laughed the police out of court and dismissed the cases. The strong protests from locals that day, who were batoned off their own streets, ensured those f**kers never walked that route again
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: armaghniac on July 05, 2017, 07:54:57 PM
I am also of the opinion that the Orange Order would be all but irrelevant now had SF's policy of protesting not revived an organisation whose membership had dwindled seriously in the early 90s.
Best thing to do with parades and bonfires is ignore them

"Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing." John Stuart Mill
"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." Edmund Burke   
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: StGallsGAA on July 05, 2017, 08:32:22 PM
I am also of the opinion that the Orange Order would be all but irrelevant now had SF's policy of protesting not revived an organisation whose membership had dwindled seriously in the early 90s.
Best thing to do with parades and bonfires is ignore them

Croppies lie down, let them trail their coats and walk all over you. Aye, right. You talk of your experience in Portadown. I've family from the Tunnel and I know well what the people of Obins Street and Parkside had to put up with in the 70s/80s, and what the people of Garvaghy Road had to deal with in 90s. Around 25 years ago the RUC forced an Orange parade through the 100% nationalist Panda estate in Dungannon. The b**tards even broke down doors to arrest people waving tricolours from their own bedroom windows and charged them with behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace ... needless to say the judge laughed the police out of court and dismissed the cases. The strong protests from locals that day, who were batoned off their own streets, ensured those f**kers never walked that route again

There was a loyalist parade thru the Panda around 1992?  Seriously doubt that RH.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: red hander on July 05, 2017, 08:40:42 PM
I am also of the opinion that the Orange Order would be all but irrelevant now had SF's policy of protesting not revived an organisation whose membership had dwindled seriously in the early 90s.
Best thing to do with parades and bonfires is ignore them

Croppies lie down, let them trail their coats and walk all over you. Aye, right. You talk of your experience in Portadown. I've family from the Tunnel and I know well what the people of Obins Street and Parkside had to put up with in the 70s/80s, and what the people of Garvaghy Road had to deal with in 90s. Around 25 years ago the RUC forced an Orange parade through the 100% nationalist Panda estate in Dungannon. The b**tards even broke down doors to arrest people waving tricolours from their own bedroom windows and charged them with behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace ... needless to say the judge laughed the police out of court and dismissed the cases. The strong protests from locals that day, who were batoned off their own streets, ensured those f**kers never walked that route again

There was a loyalist parade thru the Panda around 1992?  Seriously doubt that RH.

It happened, forced down the Ballygawley Road towards their 'field', sparked rioting.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: T Fearon on July 05, 2017, 08:44:03 PM
Well parades only annoy those who let them annoy them.They are meaningless to me
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: T Fearon on July 05, 2017, 08:48:25 PM
There is a huge Orange parade in Rossnowlagh every year.The fact that it has been trouble free I would suggest is due to the fact it is ignored by all but Orange Order members and supporters.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: armaghniac on July 05, 2017, 09:05:27 PM
There is a huge Orange parade in Rossnowlagh every year.The fact that it has been trouble free I would suggest is due to the fact it is ignored by all but Orange Order members and supporters.

It is also ignored by a substantial class of Orange order supporters.
Let the Orange Order conduct all parades in the manner of Rossknowlagh, in an independent Ireland, and no doubt the parades will be ignored also.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: seafoid on July 05, 2017, 09:20:10 PM
There is a huge Orange parade in Rossnowlagh every year.The fact that it has been trouble free I would suggest is due to the fact it is ignored by all but Orange Order members and supporters.
They don't claim superiority in Rossknowlagh.  Because it wouldn't be taken seriously. Like what Peter Canavan said in 2003. The British Army and Tyrone used to lose their power once they crossed the border.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: take_yer_points on July 05, 2017, 09:38:02 PM
I am also of the opinion that the Orange Order would be all but irrelevant now had SF's policy of protesting not revived an organisation whose membership had dwindled seriously in the early 90s.
Best thing to do with parades and bonfires is ignore them

Croppies lie down, let them trail their coats and walk all over you. Aye, right. You talk of your experience in Portadown. I've family from the Tunnel and I know well what the people of Obins Street and Parkside had to put up with in the 70s/80s, and what the people of Garvaghy Road had to deal with in 90s. Around 25 years ago the RUC forced an Orange parade through the 100% nationalist Panda estate in Dungannon. The b**tards even broke down doors to arrest people waving tricolours from their own bedroom windows and charged them with behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace ... needless to say the judge laughed the police out of court and dismissed the cases. The strong protests from locals that day, who were batoned off their own streets, ensured those f**kers never walked that route again

There was a loyalist parade thru the Panda around 1992?  Seriously doubt that RH.

It happened, forced down the Ballygawley Road towards their 'field', sparked rioting.

Rubber bullets fired up round the square that day if I remember correctly. And the field was out towards eskra lough I think??
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: BennyCake on July 05, 2017, 10:03:19 PM
As a small child growing up in Portadown pre troubles I recall going to 11th night bonfires and I wasnt the only catholic.Too young to understand what it was about but got crisps and minerals like all the other kids and it seemed very harmless then compared to now.

I assume the working or unemployed class protestant insecurity factor now is manifest in bigger and bigger bonfires sadly.

The increase in unionist insecurity has also seen the increased power of the DUP.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Rossfan on July 05, 2017, 10:18:18 PM
There is a huge Orange parade in Rossnowlagh every year.The fact that it has been trouble free I would suggest is due to the fact it is ignored by all but Orange Order members and supporters.

It is also ignored by a substantial class of Orange order supporters.
Let the Orange Order conduct all parades in the manner of Rossknowlagh, in an independent Ireland, and no doubt the parades will be ignored also.
+1.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: T Fearon on July 06, 2017, 12:21:06 AM
I gather most if not all country parades are conducted with respect,Belfast is different mainly due to blood and thunder bands.In any event hasnt the Freestate govt invested millions in a heritage site on the Boyne,which is in effect a shrine to Orangeism?

But to emphasise my level of complete indifference,I was returning home from Mass about 8.30pm last Saturday night when a mini twelfth celebration was taking place in the village.I was stopped by the Police and asked to wait until one of the bands (none of which were the blood and thunder type),turned..Then when I got down into the village I was advised by the Police that the Road up to my house,about half a mile from the village centre and a main thoroughfare was closed on account of this celebration.This necessitated a detour of approximately 5 miles,ten minutes.Did it bother me? No.I just think all paraders and bands from all sides are sad if that's what they get off on.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: BennyCake on July 06, 2017, 12:37:44 AM
Would it bother you if you had to take someone to the hospital in an emergency, and your road was closed? Those 10 minutes could be vital.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on July 06, 2017, 05:03:21 AM
My brother an elected representative from North Antrim two years ago tried to get Loyalists from a small village called Dervock to remove Loyalist flags and slogans they had put up on the local  Catholic church.

He went to the local papers and the RUC to make his complaint but it all fell on deaf ears.  That 12th the Loyalists made an effigy of my brother on their bonfire claiming he was a dead man. A few weeks later they fire bombed his house. Thankfully they weren't home.

Im from a small mixed village and relations are top notch. However come marching season it gets very tense. One of the main reasons is the putting up of Bristish buntings and flags which is not good. Its proocitive and unnecessary. If the shoe was on the other foot I would be embarrassed to put up Irish flags knowing it would hurt peoples feelings.

Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: T Fearon on July 06, 2017, 06:07:14 AM
Flags are Rags as my late Father was fond of saying.I simply don't let it annoy me.Deep down few if any unionists really trust the British.I still think they are best ignored,loyalists must love the reaction they get every year.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Taylor on July 06, 2017, 07:42:55 AM
I gather most if not all country parades are conducted with respect,Belfast is different mainly due to blood and thunder bands.In any event hasnt the Freestate govt invested millions in a heritage site on the Boyne,which is in effect a shrine to Orangeism?

But to emphasise my level of complete indifference,I was returning home from Mass about 8.30pm last Saturday night when a mini twelfth celebration was taking place in the village.I was stopped by the Police and asked to wait until one of the bands (none of which were the blood and thunder type),turned..Then when I got down into the village I was advised by the Police that the Road up to my house,about half a mile from the village centre and a main thoroughfare was closed on account of this celebration.This necessitated a detour of approximately 5 miles,ten minutes.Did it bother me? No.I just think all paraders and bands from all sides are sad if that's what they get off on.

Complete bullshit Tony.

The country ones are as bad.

Surprised at you talking rubbish on this one

Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: T Fearon on July 06, 2017, 07:51:54 AM
I thought generally the kick the pope bands in Belfast meant the parades in the city
,by common consent,had a lot less decorum than those in the country.Think a distinction also needs to be made also between band parades and orange order parades.For example Poyntzpass Silver Band would be much more acceptable (they delayed me last Saturday) and melodic than Portadown True Blues.

Certainly in respect of any Orange parades I've run into inadvertently have been mannerly and not in any way triumphalist.

As I said I'm at the stage of my life were coloured cloths or people marching with coloured sashes don't bother me in any way.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Taylor on July 06, 2017, 08:33:52 AM
I thought generally the kick the pope bands in Belfast meant the parades in the city
,by common consent,had a lot less decorum than those in the country.Think a distinction also needs to be made also between band parades and orange order parades.For example Poyntzpass Silver Band would be much more acceptable (they delayed me last Saturday) and melodic than Portadown True Blues.

Certainly in respect of any Orange parades I've run into inadvertently have been mannerly and not in any way triumphalist.

As I said I'm at the stage of my life were coloured cloths or people marching with coloured sashes don't bother me in any way.

Fair enough - if that is the case you have lived a sheltered life
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: StGallsGAA on July 06, 2017, 08:51:38 AM
I am also of the opinion that the Orange Order would be all but irrelevant now had SF's policy of protesting not revived an organisation whose membership had dwindled seriously in the early 90s.
Best thing to do with parades and bonfires is ignore them

Croppies lie down, let them trail their coats and walk all over you. Aye, right. You talk of your experience in Portadown. I've family from the Tunnel and I know well what the people of Obins Street and Parkside had to put up with in the 70s/80s, and what the people of Garvaghy Road had to deal with in 90s. Around 25 years ago the RUC forced an Orange parade through the 100% nationalist Panda estate in Dungannon. The b**tards even broke down doors to arrest people waving tricolours from their own bedroom windows and charged them with behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace ... needless to say the judge laughed the police out of court and dismissed the cases. The strong protests from locals that day, who were batoned off their own streets, ensured those f**kers never walked that route again

There was a loyalist parade thru the Panda around 1992?  Seriously doubt that RH.

It happened, forced down the Ballygawley Road towards their 'field', sparked rioting.

Ah OK. So it was a march along the Ballygawley Road past the Panda  rather than thru the estate itself?

The amount of bands and parades has more than trebled since Drumcree.  I'd agree that ignoring them would have been the best policy and by now they'd have mostly disappeared. 
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: T Fearon on July 06, 2017, 09:05:48 AM
Exactly.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: armaghniac on July 06, 2017, 10:32:16 AM
The amount of bands and parades has more than trebled since Drumcree.  I'd agree that ignoring them would have been the best policy and by now they'd have mostly disappeared.

Most marches are ignored. What proportion are contentious and opposed in any significant way?
Only the most egregious examples have been significantly changed.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: punt kick on July 06, 2017, 12:25:34 PM
I am also of the opinion that the Orange Order would be all but irrelevant now had SF's policy of protesting not revived an organisation whose membership had dwindled seriously in the early 90s.
Best thing to do with parades and bonfires is ignore them

Croppies lie down, let them trail their coats and walk all over you. Aye, right. You talk of your experience in Portadown. I've family from the Tunnel and I know well what the people of Obins Street and Parkside had to put up with in the 70s/80s, and what the people of Garvaghy Road had to deal with in 90s. Around 25 years ago the RUC forced an Orange parade through the 100% nationalist Panda estate in Dungannon. The b**tards even broke down doors to arrest people waving tricolours from their own bedroom windows and charged them with behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace ... needless to say the judge laughed the police out of court and dismissed the cases. The strong protests from locals that day, who were batoned off their own streets, ensured those f**kers never walked that route again

There was a loyalist parade thru the Panda around 1992?  Seriously doubt that RH.

It happened, forced down the Ballygawley Road towards their 'field', sparked rioting.

Ah OK. So it was a march along the Ballygawley Road past the Panda  rather than thru the estate itself?

The amount of bands and parades has more than trebled since Drumcree.  I'd agree that ignoring them would have been the best policy and by now they'd have mostly disappeared.

You are totally correct ignoring it would make it better.  It is common throughout history turning a blind eye is the best policy.

Ignoring clerical child abuse.
Ignoring the civil liberties of the nationalist community.
Ignoring North Korea's weapons program I am sure will work itself out.

So Ignoring triumphalist, sectarian bands hemming in the nationalist community in their own homes year after year I am sure it would have worked itself out, if only folk didn't take it too seriously and let the OO walk all over them, folk eh there is no accounting for them.  ::) 
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: T Fearon on July 06, 2017, 12:33:57 PM
Ignoring clerical child abuse? Ffs its in the news day and daily!

As for hemming in houses etc if there was no visible contention there would be no need for any security whatsoever.

Could be worse.We could be under the Dublin Govt which has pumped millions into an orange shrine at site of Battle of the Boyne.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: punt kick on July 06, 2017, 12:40:27 PM
I am guessing you aren't the sharpest tool in the box!
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Orior on July 06, 2017, 01:22:39 PM
There is also a world of difference between country lodges and those that come from towns and cities. Members of the latter are reared in a protestant cocoons which (as the Irish President once said) encourages hate of everything Irish.

Yesterday I had a look at the remnants of the bonfire on the carpark beside Holywood Arches in Belfast. Despite Macauley's retraction of earlier statements on Facebook there is still a sign in the car park saying "F#%* the Irish News"
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: seafoid on July 06, 2017, 01:38:53 PM
There is also a world of difference between country lodges and those that come from towns and cities. Members of the latter are reared in a protestant cocoons which (as the Irish President once said) encourages hate of everything Irish.

Yesterday I had a look at the remnants of the bonfire on the carpark beside Holywood Arches in Belfast. Despite Macauley's retraction of earlier statements on Facebook there is still a sign in the car park saying "F#%* the Irish News"
Hatred of anything is about self and insecurity usually. Protestant identity should be built on something  less fragile. Nobody outside NI cares.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: T Fearon on July 06, 2017, 02:42:05 PM
It is typical  but wrong for outsiders to equate all protestants with the Orange Order or bonfires etc.The majority of protestants are embarrassed by it.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: punt kick on July 06, 2017, 02:47:57 PM
Nearly as ridiculous as equating all Catholics with being Christian!
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Taylor on July 06, 2017, 03:00:32 PM
It is typical  but wrong for outsiders to equate all protestants with the Orange Order or bonfires etc.The majority of protestants are embarrassed by it.

Thats nonsense Tony as shown by the numbers that march and indeed attend the marches
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: T Fearon on July 06, 2017, 03:51:51 PM
Orange Order has 30,000 members out of a Protestant population of about 800,000.A lot of Protestants abhor them,and even Jackie Mc Donald said the 12th is a day he dreads,as it's the day young loyalists are most likely to get into trouble.

You don't see any bonfires or Arches in middle class areas.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Taylor on July 06, 2017, 04:36:33 PM
Orange Order has 30,000 members out of a Protestant population of about 800,000.A lot of Protestants abhor them,and even Jackie Mc Donald said the 12th is a day he dreads,as it's the day young loyalists are most likely to get into trouble.

You don't see any bonfires or Arches in middle class areas.

Attend Tony. The number that attend. If you were so embarrassed why would you go to them?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: BennyCake on July 06, 2017, 04:37:53 PM
There is also a world of difference between country lodges and those that come from towns and cities. Members of the latter are reared in a protestant cocoons which (as the Irish President once said) encourages hate of everything Irish.

Yesterday I had a look at the remnants of the bonfire on the carpark beside Holywood Arches in Belfast. Despite Macauley's retraction of earlier statements on Facebook there is still a sign in the car park saying "F#%* the Irish News"
Hatred of anything is about self and insecurity usually. Protestant identity should be built on something  less fragile. Nobody outside NI cares.

Protestant identity has nothing else. If Catholics were driven from the North, everything associated with Protestants/Unionism would disappear as there would be nobody else there to offend or wind up. The whole bonfire, marching, flegs would become meaningless and eventually disappear.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: red hander on July 06, 2017, 04:39:53 PM
I am also of the opinion that the Orange Order would be all but irrelevant now had SF's policy of protesting not revived an organisation whose membership had dwindled seriously in the early 90s.
Best thing to do with parades and bonfires is ignore them

Croppies lie down, let them trail their coats and walk all over you. Aye, right. You talk of your experience in Portadown. I've family from the Tunnel and I know well what the people of Obins Street and Parkside had to put up with in the 70s/80s, and what the people of Garvaghy Road had to deal with in 90s. Around 25 years ago the RUC forced an Orange parade through the 100% nationalist Panda estate in Dungannon. The b**tards even broke down doors to arrest people waving tricolours from their own bedroom windows and charged them with behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace ... needless to say the judge laughed the police out of court and dismissed the cases. The strong protests from locals that day, who were batoned off their own streets, ensured those f**kers never walked that route again

There was a loyalist parade thru the Panda around 1992?  Seriously doubt that RH.

It happened, forced down the Ballygawley Road towards their 'field', sparked rioting.

Ah OK. So it was a march along the Ballygawley Road past the Panda  rather than thru the estate itself?

The amount of bands and parades has more than trebled since Drumcree.  I'd agree that ignoring them would have been the best policy and by now they'd have mostly disappeared.

Nitpicking. 100% nationalist area, Panda front row is on the Ballygawley Road, they were forced onto 100% nationalist Newell Road, past 100% nationalist Fairmount Park, and access from 100% nationalist Springdale, 100% nationalist Lisnahull and 100% nationalist Dalriada and 100% nationalist Donaghmore Road was blocked so these c***ts could coat-trail through the 100% nationalist West End to their field, which could have been easily reached via a non-contentious route
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 06, 2017, 07:31:40 PM
There is nothing wrong with bonfires, if done properly. Guy Fawkes Night in the UK is a fantastic family event which kids love, or at least the official events are. What all these events have in common though is security. The bonfires are of a certain height, not near any buildings or anything else which can burn easily and there is usually some sort of cordon around the fire to stop people going too close. Some sort of fire safety crew is present as well if I recall correctly.

The bonfires in the North, discounting how gravely offensive many of them are, are not secure. Massive bonfires are dangerous anywhere but in housing estates they're insane. What will put an end to them, or at least bring in legislation to control them, is there is obviously going to be a tragedy at some point. Every year they build them bigger and in more stupid places. Eventually something is going to go badly wrong.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: armaghniac on July 06, 2017, 08:09:29 PM
There is nothing wrong with bonfires, if done properly. Guy Fawkes Night in the UK is a fantastic family event which kids love, or at least the official events are. What all these events have in common though is security. The bonfires are of a certain height, not near any buildings or anything else which can burn easily and there is usually some sort of cordon around the fire to stop people going too close. Some sort of fire safety crew is present as well if I recall correctly.

Guy Fawkes Night, formerly known as Pope Day. is also an essentially anti Catholic event celebrating an event in a form of civil war. People ignore some of what it is about, but it is not a proper thing to be celebrating. A lot of English will sneer at the 11th July, while being basically cut from the same cloth themselves.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: BennyCake on July 06, 2017, 08:45:58 PM
I'd imagine most English who celebrate 5 November have no idea it is anti-Catholic.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on July 07, 2017, 02:29:26 AM
When I think of these orangemen I  just automatically think of a family tree with no branches. The end product, a Jim Allister type. You know the one's Im talking about, you see them out marching on the 12th with the two big toes facing each other.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: T Fearon on July 07, 2017, 06:17:51 AM
While generally I think it would be better if the OO didn't exist,I think they are unfairly maligned on this thread.The parading tradition and culture has been there for decades and as even SF will tell you,the vast majority of parades are non contentious.I don't believe the average Orangeman hates Catholics or looks down his nose at them.I know a lot of members,even do business with a member,and without exception the ones I know are friendly and courteous.

Neither do I believe the majority who attend parades do so to be triumphalist or gloat.For most it's just a family day out.

The OO needs to withdraw completely from the political arena and concentrate solely on religious matters.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: MoChara on July 07, 2017, 08:38:29 AM
While generally I think it would be better if the OO didn't exist,I think they are unfairly maligned on this thread.The parading tradition and culture has been there for decades and as even SF will tell you,the vast majority of parades are non contentious.I don't believe the average Orangeman hates Catholics or looks down his nose at them.I know a lot of members,even do business with a member,and without exception the ones I know are friendly and courteous.

Neither do I believe the majority who attend parades do so to be triumphalist or gloat.For most it's just a family day out.

The OO needs to withdraw completely from the political arena and concentrate solely on religious matters.

Doing business with a member is only a sign that the green pound spends as good as the orange.

I don't believe as individuals they are all knuckle dragging bigots either to be honest but they are involved in knuckle dragging bigotry.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Applesisapples on July 07, 2017, 08:53:58 AM
I am also of the opinion that the Orange Order would be all but irrelevant now had SF's policy of protesting not revived an organisation whose membership had dwindled seriously in the early 90s.
Best thing to do with parades and bonfires is ignore them
Tony a shameful but not surprising statement from a man who claims to be from Portadown.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Orior on July 07, 2017, 09:00:40 AM
While generally I think it would be better if the OO didn't exist,I think they are unfairly maligned on this thread.The parading tradition and culture has been there for decades and as even SF will tell you,the vast majority of parades are non contentious.I don't believe the average Orangeman hates Catholics or looks down his nose at them.I know a lot of members,even do business with a member,and without exception the ones I know are friendly and courteous.

Neither do I believe the majority who attend parades do so to be triumphalist or gloat.For most it's just a family day out.

The OO needs to withdraw completely from the political arena and concentrate solely on religious matters.

Objection M'Lord. A quick search of the Newspaper archives shows that riots at Orange Parades happened on a regular basis in the 18th and 19th centuries in the North, as well as places like Canada. Indeed, there was trouble associated with the parades by the other side too:

http://www.poyntzpass.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/ST-PATRICKS-DAY-1869.pdf (http://www.poyntzpass.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/ST-PATRICKS-DAY-1869.pdf)
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 07, 2017, 09:14:37 AM
There is nothing wrong with bonfires, if done properly. Guy Fawkes Night in the UK is a fantastic family event which kids love, or at least the official events are. What all these events have in common though is security. The bonfires are of a certain height, not near any buildings or anything else which can burn easily and there is usually some sort of cordon around the fire to stop people going too close. Some sort of fire safety crew is present as well if I recall correctly.

Guy Fawkes Night, formerly known as Pope Day. is also an essentially anti Catholic event celebrating an event in a form of civil war. People ignore some of what it is about, but it is not a proper thing to be celebrating. A lot of English will sneer at the 11th July, while being basically cut from the same cloth themselves.

That's ridiculous. Whilst it is undoubtedly true Guy Fawkes Night carried anti-Catholic sentiment in certain areas 150 years ago that has been completely eradicated. I grew up in Wales, was Catholic then though have no religious affiliation as an adult, both my parents are still strong Catholics and we all celebrated 5th November. Fireworks and bonfires, children love it. Simply because something had negative overtones in the past doesn't mean it can't mature into something positive which Guy Fawkes Night undoubtedly has. Saying Bonfire Night, which is what most people certainly in the area of Wales I grew up call it, is anti-Catholic is as silly as saying Bastille Day is a celebration of cutting people's heads off. Frankly your comment about English people in general was racist and bigoted.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: punt kick on July 07, 2017, 09:32:57 AM
Albeit 100% true.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: The Subbie on July 07, 2017, 10:28:35 AM
While generally I think it would be better if the OO didn't exist,I think they are unfairly maligned on this thread.The parading tradition and culture has been there for decades and as even SF will tell you,the vast majority of parades are non contentious.I don't believe the average Orangeman hates Catholics or looks down his nose at them.I know a lot of members,even do business with a member,and without exception the ones I know are friendly and courteous.

Neither do I believe the majority who attend parades do so to be triumphalist or gloat.For most it's just a family day out.

The OO needs to withdraw completely from the political arena and concentrate solely on religious matters.

Dr Subbie suspects a serious dose of Stockholm syndrome.
Please go and lie down in a dark room and don't be speaking to any orange men for the next 5 or 6 weeks.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Taylor on July 07, 2017, 10:30:35 AM
While generally I think it would be better if the OO didn't exist,I think they are unfairly maligned on this thread.The parading tradition and culture has been there for decades and as even SF will tell you,the vast majority of parades are non contentious.I don't believe the average Orangeman hates Catholics or looks down his nose at them.I know a lot of members,even do business with a member,and without exception the ones I know are friendly and courteous.

Neither do I believe the majority who attend parades do so to be triumphalist or gloat.For most it's just a family day out.

The OO needs to withdraw completely from the political arena and concentrate solely on religious matters.

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: balladmaker on July 07, 2017, 01:36:17 PM
Quote
Every year they build them bigger and in more stupid places. Eventually something is going to go badly wrong.

Has anyone seen the Sandy Row bonfire just off Great Victoria Street, right beside the Holiday Inn whose oil tank is right in the firing line?  I can't see how the Holiday Inn is going to escape untouched, surely the heat must at least damage their windows, if not worse.  These bonfire builders have no regard for property or safety, they've also no control of the embers that will land on the roof of neighbouring houses and businesses etc.  It wouldn't be accepted anywhere else but in the north, a ridiculous situation that the authorities seem to have no control over ... apart from storing pallets on their behalf.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Dire Ear on July 07, 2017, 01:51:42 PM
http://www.irishnews.com/picturesarchive/irishnews/irishnews/2017/07/06/185715930-77e9412e-0cf7-4caa-9954-2b8d7cd53457.jpg
It's real, even if the photo makes it look closer than it really is
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Dire Ear on July 07, 2017, 01:54:01 PM
http://www.irishnews.com/picturesarchive/irishnews/irishnews/2017/07/06/185734317-1d0d4879-f45b-4628-912f-bf215f72128a.jpg
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: BennyCake on July 07, 2017, 02:01:16 PM
http://www.irishnews.com/picturesarchive/irishnews/irishnews/2017/07/06/185715930-77e9412e-0cf7-4caa-9954-2b8d7cd53457.jpg
It's real, even if the photo makes it look closer than it really is

HOLY SHIT!!!! That is mental... £1.13 for a litre of diesel??!!! That's a quare price!!
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Denn Forever on July 07, 2017, 02:02:23 PM
http://www.irishnews.com/picturesarchive/irishnews/irishnews/2017/07/06/185715930-77e9412e-0cf7-4caa-9954-2b8d7cd53457.jpg
It's real, even if the photo makes it look closer than it really is

Surely they would listened to reason,  Near a pertrol station?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: OgraAnDun on July 07, 2017, 02:03:02 PM
http://www.irishnews.com/picturesarchive/irishnews/irishnews/2017/07/06/185715930-77e9412e-0cf7-4caa-9954-2b8d7cd53457.jpg
It's real, even if the photo makes it look closer than it really is

Yes and according to some of the Facebook comments, it's the fault of the owners of the petrol station and the council for allowing a petrol station to be built so close to the bonfire site.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Orior on July 07, 2017, 02:04:46 PM
I've seen young teenagers climbing up these bonfires and helping to build them.... wait for it..... without a hard hat on!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where the heck is Health & Safety when you need them?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Taylor on July 07, 2017, 02:05:27 PM
Quote
Every year they build them bigger and in more stupid places. Eventually something is going to go badly wrong.

Has anyone seen the Sandy Row bonfire just off Great Victoria Street, right beside the Holiday Inn whose oil tank is right in the firing line?  I can't see how the Holiday Inn is going to escape untouched, surely the heat must at least damage their windows, if not worse.  These bonfire builders have no regard for property or safety, they've also no control of the embers that will land on the roof of neighbouring houses and businesses etc.  It wouldn't be accepted anywhere else but in the north, a ridiculous situation that the authorities seem to have no control over ... apart from storing pallets on their behalf.

Holiday Inn is afraid to complain as they will be targeted so they just keep quiet in the hope nothing happens.

Councillors wouldnt go in to clear it up as they would fear for their life.

Absolutely ludicrous
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: BennyCake on July 07, 2017, 02:05:57 PM
I've seen young teenagers climbing up these bonfires and helping to build them.... wait for it..... without a hard hat on!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where the heck is Health & Safety when you need them?

That's just put the er, tin hat on this whole charade!
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Applesisapples on July 07, 2017, 02:24:37 PM
Lee Reynolds on Talkback was challenged about 55% of the population (closer to 49%) celebrating victory over the other 45%, if I heard him right say better to celebrate a victory unlike nationalists... he didn't get finishing it but i took it he meant unlike nationalists who can only celebrate defeat. Went unchallenged, but nothing new there when it comes to kultur.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: armaghniac on July 07, 2017, 03:09:45 PM
HOLY SHIT!!!! That is mental... £1.13 for a litre of diesel??!!! That's a quare price!!

They are trying to reduce the volume in their tanks before next Tuesday!


http://www.irishnews.com/picturesarchive/irishnews/irishnews/2017/07/06/185715930-77e9412e-0cf7-4caa-9954-2b8d7cd53457.jpg
It's real, even if the photo makes it look closer than it really is

Surely they would listened to reason,  Near a pertrol station?

They would say that it isn't that close

Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: BennyCake on July 07, 2017, 03:19:15 PM
The fact a petrol station is near is dangerous. That fire will be lit on 11th night should there be a wind straight towards the station. There will be no waiting til the next day for the wind to change.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: general_lee on July 07, 2017, 03:24:27 PM
Flags are Rags as my late Father was fond of saying.I simply don't let it annoy me.Deep down few if any unionists really trust the British.I still think they are best ignored,loyalists must love the reaction they get every year.
It's hard to ignore having to close your business if you're unfortunate enough to be on the main parade route. It's also hard to ignore being asked to "donate" towards the local bonfire children's activities. It's all well and good saying you don't let it annoy you, the reality is people are impacted by this, ask any trader in Belfast that isn't an off license.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: armaghniac on July 07, 2017, 03:52:55 PM
The fact a petrol station is near is dangerous. That fire will be lit on 11th night should there be a wind straight towards the station. There will be no waiting til the next day for the wind to change.

It is 100m away, but there are trees on that side of the road and it is south-west of the petrol station, which is the prevailing wind.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Fuzzman on July 07, 2017, 04:14:48 PM
Does anyone know where that petrol station is? Is it owned by a catholic by any chance?

I'm totally amazed that they allowed them to build the bonfire there so close to the road and surely those trees are all gonna go up in flames. Do the fire brigade or cops not have any influence on where they build them.

I wonder what the foreign tourists in Days hotel make of it all or do people know to stay away those "Days"

It will be interesting to see does the British Media take more interest in the 12th this year as a lot of them seem to be shocked what goes on over in the North.

I've been out of the North for 20 years now and I don't think I've ever saw a live 11th night bonfire.
Have any of ye ever walked down to one for a look or is it a no go area for most?


Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: red hander on July 07, 2017, 04:23:30 PM
While generally I think it would be better if the OO didn't exist,I think they are unfairly maligned on this thread.The parading tradition and culture has been there for decades and as even SF will tell you,the vast majority of parades are non contentious.I don't believe the average Orangeman hates Catholics or looks down his nose at them.I know a lot of members,even do business with a member,and without exception the ones I know are friendly and courteous.

Neither do I believe the majority who attend parades do so to be triumphalist or gloat.For most it's just a family day out.

The OO needs to withdraw completely from the political arena and concentrate solely on religious matters.

Sweet Holy F**k  ::)
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: seafoid on July 07, 2017, 04:35:15 PM
Lee Reynolds on Talkback was challenged about 55% of the population (closer to 49%) celebrating victory over the other 45%, if I heard him right say better to celebrate a victory unlike nationalists... he didn't get finishing it but i took it he meant unlike nationalists who can only celebrate defeat. Went unchallenged, but nothing new there when it comes to kultur.
The only reason King Billy is remembered is because until him the settlement project was very fragile.
An awful lot of Ulster settlers left and headed for America to become rednecks and Republican voters
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: armaghniac on July 07, 2017, 05:52:06 PM
Lee Reynolds on Talkback was challenged about 55% of the population (closer to 49%) celebrating victory over the other 45%, if I heard him right say better to celebrate a victory unlike nationalists... he didn't get finishing it but i took it he meant unlike nationalists who can only celebrate defeat. Went unchallenged, but nothing new there when it comes to kultur.
The only reason King Billy is remembered is because until him the settlement project was very fragile.
An awful lot of Ulster settlers left and headed for America to become rednecks and Republican voters

Perhaps Trump could be persuaded to have special visa scheme for those left behind?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: foxcommander on July 07, 2017, 06:25:44 PM
While generally I think it would be better if the OO didn't exist,I think they are unfairly maligned on this thread.The parading tradition and culture has been there for decades and as even SF will tell you,the vast majority of parades are non contentious.I don't believe the average Orangeman hates Catholics or looks down his nose at them.I know a lot of members,even do business with a member,and without exception the ones I know are friendly and courteous.

Neither do I believe the majority who attend parades do so to be triumphalist or gloat.For most it's just a family day out.


Unfairly maligned?  They look to parade in predominantly nationalist areas in order to exercise their rights.

Family day out? Catch yourself on.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: red hander on July 07, 2017, 06:28:58 PM
Does anyone know where that petrol station is? Is it owned by a catholic by any chance?

I'm totally amazed that they allowed them to build the bonfire there so close to the road and surely those trees are all gonna go up in flames. Do the fire brigade or cops not have any influence on where they build them.

I wonder what the foreign tourists in Days hotel make of it all or do people know to stay away those "Days"

It will be interesting to see does the British Media take more interest in the 12th this year as a lot of them seem to be shocked what goes on over in the North.

I've been out of the North for 20 years now and I don't think I've ever saw a live 11th night bonfire.
Have any of ye ever walked down to one for a look or is it a no go area for most?

Prince Andrew Way in Carrickfergus. I'm sure the Queen's second son, ex-rogerer of the Duchess of Pork, begetter of horse-faced parasite daughters and well-known friend of paedophiles, is proud of this display of kulture by his loyal subjects
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: BennyCake on July 07, 2017, 06:32:10 PM
Does anyone know where that petrol station is? Is it owned by a catholic by any chance?

I'm totally amazed that they allowed them to build the bonfire there so close to the road and surely those trees are all gonna go up in flames. Do the fire brigade or cops not have any influence on where they build them.

I wonder what the foreign tourists in Days hotel make of it all or do people know to stay away those "Days"

It will be interesting to see does the British Media take more interest in the 12th this year as a lot of them seem to be shocked what goes on over in the North.

I've been out of the North for 20 years now and I don't think I've ever saw a live 11th night bonfire.
Have any of ye ever walked down to one for a look or is it a no go area for most?

Prince Andrew Way in Carrickfergus. I'm sure the Queen's second son, ex-rogerer of the Duchess of Pork, begetter of horse-faced parasite daughters and well-known friend of paedophiles, is proud of this display of kulture by his loyal subjects

To quote Chandler Bing - could you be any more (wannabe) British?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 07, 2017, 07:18:09 PM
Does anyone know where that petrol station is? Is it owned by a catholic by any chance?

I'm totally amazed that they allowed them to build the bonfire there so close to the road and surely those trees are all gonna go up in flames. Do the fire brigade or cops not have any influence on where they build them.

I wonder what the foreign tourists in Days hotel make of it all or do people know to stay away those "Days"

It will be interesting to see does the British Media take more interest in the 12th this year as a lot of them seem to be shocked what goes on over in the North.

I've been out of the North for 20 years now and I don't think I've ever saw a live 11th night bonfire.
Have any of ye ever walked down to one for a look or is it a no go area for most?

Prince Andrew Way in Carrickfergus. I'm sure the Queen's second son, ex-rogerer of the Duchess of Pork, begetter of horse-faced parasite daughters and well-known friend of paedophiles, is proud of this display of kulture by his loyal subjects

To quote Chandler Bing - could you be any more (wannabe) British?

That's the most amusing thing. The Welsh are Welsh, the Scottish are Scottish, the English are English, well except if Andy Murray is playing at Wimbledon and then they'll stretch to British because they know their own players are pap. Only this weird minority of the Irish claim Britishness 365 days a year.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: BennyCake on July 07, 2017, 07:46:08 PM
Does anyone know where that petrol station is? Is it owned by a catholic by any chance?

I'm totally amazed that they allowed them to build the bonfire there so close to the road and surely those trees are all gonna go up in flames. Do the fire brigade or cops not have any influence on where they build them.

I wonder what the foreign tourists in Days hotel make of it all or do people know to stay away those "Days"

It will be interesting to see does the British Media take more interest in the 12th this year as a lot of them seem to be shocked what goes on over in the North.

I've been out of the North for 20 years now and I don't think I've ever saw a live 11th night bonfire.
Have any of ye ever walked down to one for a look or is it a no go area for most?

Prince Andrew Way in Carrickfergus. I'm sure the Queen's second son, ex-rogerer of the Duchess of Pork, begetter of horse-faced parasite daughters and well-known friend of paedophiles, is proud of this display of kulture by his loyal subjects

Is that his official title?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: OgraAnDun on July 07, 2017, 09:20:07 PM
Does anyone know where that petrol station is? Is it owned by a catholic by any chance?

I'm totally amazed that they allowed them to build the bonfire there so close to the road and surely those trees are all gonna go up in flames. Do the fire brigade or cops not have any influence on where they build them.

I wonder what the foreign tourists in Days hotel make of it all or do people know to stay away those "Days"

It will be interesting to see does the British Media take more interest in the 12th this year as a lot of them seem to be shocked what goes on over in the North.

I've been out of the North for 20 years now and I don't think I've ever saw a live 11th night bonfire.
Have any of ye ever walked down to one for a look or is it a no go area for most?

Prince Andrew Way in Carrickfergus. I'm sure the Queen's second son, ex-rogerer of the Duchess of Pork, begetter of horse-faced parasite daughters and well-known friend of paedophiles, is proud of this display of kulture by his loyal subjects

Is that his official title?

Only on designated days.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: michaelg on July 07, 2017, 10:57:16 PM
Lee Reynolds on Talkback was challenged about 55% of the population (closer to 49%) celebrating victory over the other 45%, if I heard him right say better to celebrate a victory unlike nationalists... he didn't get finishing it but i took it he meant unlike nationalists who can only celebrate defeat. Went unchallenged, but nothing new there when it comes to kultur.
The only reason King Billy is remembered is because until him the settlement project was very fragile.
An awful lot of Ulster settlers left and headed for America to become rednecks and Republican voters

Perhaps Trump could be persuaded to have special visa scheme for those left behind?
Charming - I thought Republicans were now keen to be more inclusive and attempt to persuade the PUL community of the merits of a UI?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Tony Baloney on July 07, 2017, 11:02:18 PM
Lee Reynolds on Talkback was challenged about 55% of the population (closer to 49%) celebrating victory over the other 45%, if I heard him right say better to celebrate a victory unlike nationalists... he didn't get finishing it but i took it he meant unlike nationalists who can only celebrate defeat. Went unchallenged, but nothing new there when it comes to kultur.
The only reason King Billy is remembered is because until him the settlement project was very fragile.
An awful lot of Ulster settlers left and headed for America to become rednecks and Republican voters

Perhaps Trump could be persuaded to have special visa scheme for those left behind?
Charming - I thought Republicans were now keen to be more inclusive and attempt to persuade the PUL community of the merits of a UI?
Does that last quote erode your culture or oppress you in any way?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: armaghniac on July 07, 2017, 11:17:57 PM
Lee Reynolds on Talkback was challenged about 55% of the population (closer to 49%) celebrating victory over the other 45%, if I heard him right say better to celebrate a victory unlike nationalists... he didn't get finishing it but i took it he meant unlike nationalists who can only celebrate defeat. Went unchallenged, but nothing new there when it comes to kultur.
The only reason King Billy is remembered is because until him the settlement project was very fragile.
An awful lot of Ulster settlers left and headed for America to become rednecks and Republican voters

Perhaps Trump could be persuaded to have special visa scheme for those left behind?
Charming - I thought Republicans were now keen to be more inclusive and attempt to persuade the PUL community of the merits of a UI?

The merits of a UI are obvious, but if you have people carrying the torch for a 17th century colonisation project mere logic will not suffice. Why are Scotch Irish so keen on being Republicans in West Virginia, but not in NI?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: michaelg on July 07, 2017, 11:20:50 PM
Lee Reynolds on Talkback was challenged about 55% of the population (closer to 49%) celebrating victory over the other 45%, if I heard him right say better to celebrate a victory unlike nationalists... he didn't get finishing it but i took it he meant unlike nationalists who can only celebrate defeat. Went unchallenged, but nothing new there when it comes to kultur.
The only reason King Billy is remembered is because until him the settlement project was very fragile.
An awful lot of Ulster settlers left and headed for America to become rednecks and Republican voters

Perhaps Trump could be persuaded to have special visa scheme for those left behind?
Charming - I thought Republicans were now keen to be more inclusive and attempt to persuade the PUL community of the merits of a UI?
Does that last quote erode your culture or oppress you in any way?
Encouraging Unionists to emigrate hardly promotes Unionist culture, does it?  My point was more about the double standards, given the current Republican watchwords of equality, respect etc.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: armaghniac on July 07, 2017, 11:28:04 PM
Encouraging Unionists to emigrate hardly promotes Unionist culture, does it?  My point was more about the double standards, given the current Republican watchwords or equality, respect etc.

I don't want anyone to emigrate, but some people do not seem very happy to be in Ireland and some are not happy with equality but seek supremacy.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Tony Baloney on July 08, 2017, 12:09:31 AM
Encouraging Unionists to emigrate hardly promotes Unionist culture, does it?  My point was more about the double standards, given the current Republican watchwords or equality, respect etc.

I don't want anyone to emigrate, but some people do not seem very happy to be in Ireland and some are not happy with equality but seek supremacy.
You would think that ideally they'd want a wee state with plenty of fields, miles of Queen's highway and public car parks for bonies. It would be free of taigs, gays, blacks, Poles etc. but who could you demonstrate your perceived superiority on in such a place?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: armaghniac on July 08, 2017, 12:32:35 AM
Encouraging Unionists to emigrate hardly promotes Unionist culture, does it?  My point was more about the double standards, given the current Republican watchwords or equality, respect etc.

I don't want anyone to emigrate, but some people do not seem very happy to be in Ireland and some are not happy with equality but seek supremacy.
You would think that ideally they'd want a wee state with plenty of fields, miles of Queen's highway and public car parks for bonies. It would be free of taigs, gays, blacks, Poles etc. but who could you demonstrate your perceived superiority on in such a place?

People in Bangor could rob wood from people in East Belfast.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Rois on July 08, 2017, 12:46:21 AM
Friend of mine (from Lisnafin in Strabane) is a pharmacist on Woodstock/Cregagh Rd. She went with her colleagues about 10 years ago. Just drinking beers and that was about it, they didn't sit round singing anti-Catholic songs or anything. Just your average sc**bag carry out.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: seafoid on July 08, 2017, 07:17:16 AM
Friend of mine (from Lisnafin in Strabane) is a pharmacist on Woodstock/Cregagh Rd. She went with her colleagues about 10 years ago. Just drinking beers and that was about it, they didn't sit round singing anti-Catholic songs or anything. Just your average sc**bag carry out.
It sounds like an anthropological project but was probably just down the road. NI is so polarised.Would common education bring people together or is it hopeless ?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 08, 2017, 08:46:10 AM
Encouraging Unionists to emigrate hardly promotes Unionist culture, does it?  My point was more about the double standards, given the current Republican watchwords or equality, respect etc.

I don't want anyone to emigrate, but some people do not seem very happy to be in Ireland and some are not happy with equality but seek supremacy.
You would think that ideally they'd want a wee state with plenty of fields, miles of Queen's highway and public car parks for bonies. It would be free of taigs, gays, blacks, Poles etc. but who could you demonstrate your perceived superiority on in such a place?

The idea of this perceived superiority makes me laugh. Compare the two most well-known areas to people not from the North, the Falls and the Shankill. The Falls is clean, the murals are pristine, there's one of the biggest street festivals in Europe, there are cultural centres, a big shopping centre including a cinema, restaurants, decent pubs which regularly put on entertainment, the GAA clubhouses are sparkling, a teaching college, the parks, cemeteries and Garden of Remembrance are impeccably kept, I could go on. The Shankill has a few grotty pubs, a fish and chip shop, flaking and peeling murals and dog turds everywhere including in the Garden of Remembrance.

If that's superiority, keep it.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Applesisapples on July 10, 2017, 02:39:08 PM
Apparently they are now Sites of Cultural Expression! So says Jamie Bywson. :-\
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: armaghniac on July 10, 2017, 06:37:32 PM
The idea of this perceived superiority makes me laugh. Compare the two most well-known areas to people not from the North, the Falls and the Shankill. The Falls is clean, the murals are pristine, there's one of the biggest street festivals in Europe, there are cultural centres, a big shopping centre including a cinema, restaurants, decent pubs which regularly put on entertainment, the GAA clubhouses are sparkling, a teaching college, the parks, cemeteries and Garden of Remembrance are impeccably kept, I could go on. The Shankill has a few grotty pubs, a fish and chip shop, flaking and peeling murals and dog turds everywhere including in the Garden of Remembrance.

If that's superiority, keep it.

Loyal dogs are entitled to shite on the Queen's Highway whenever they want.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 10, 2017, 07:18:16 PM
Encouraging Unionists to emigrate hardly promotes Unionist culture, does it?  My point was more about the double standards, given the current Republican watchwords or equality, respect etc.

I don't want anyone to emigrate, but some people do not seem very happy to be in Ireland and some are not happy with equality but seek supremacy.

I think I read somewhere that unionists who go to England for college are less likely to return when they're done than the fenians.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: red hander on July 10, 2017, 08:57:25 PM
Apparently they are now Sites of Cultural Expression! So says Jamie Bywson. :-\

Cultural expression zones  ::). Wee Seamy is lining up to make another **** of himself, just like he did during the fleg protest, and look how well that ended
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: imtommygunn on July 10, 2017, 09:44:25 PM
He was speaking on behalf of the east belfast culture something something. They're based in ards which funny enough is roughly where he lives. Wouldn't be surprised if he created the organisation to get himself some publicity the wee p***k.

Those injunctions show the insecurity of these boys. Your bonfires are a hazard and are a serious danger to peoples lives. What - you are attacking our culture. The dup and uup voted for it too. How more people aren't seriously hurt at these bonfires i don't know.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Owen Brannigan on July 11, 2017, 08:47:44 AM
It sounds like an anthropological project but was probably just down the road. NI is so polarised.Would common education bring people together or is it hopeless ?

You can't educate people together when they live apart.  This is the nonsense of calling for Integrated education.  Shared education is the way forward with respect for difference in tradition and culture.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: seafoid on July 11, 2017, 09:26:24 AM
It sounds like an anthropological project but was probably just down the road. NI is so polarised.Would common education bring people together or is it hopeless ?

You can't educate people together when they live apart.  This is the nonsense of calling for Integrated education.  Shared education is the way forward with respect for difference in tradition and culture.
What is the endgame for polarised housing? A smaller unionist strip between Antrim, North Down and North Armagh?
If one community defines itself as not being the other community what sort of progress is possible?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Applesisapples on July 11, 2017, 09:49:34 AM
It sounds like an anthropological project but was probably just down the road. NI is so polarised.Would common education bring people together or is it hopeless ?

You can't educate people together when they live apart.  This is the nonsense of calling for Integrated education.  Shared education is the way forward with respect for difference in tradition and culture.
What is the endgame for polarised housing? A smaller unionist strip between Antrim, North Down and North Armagh?
If one community defines itself as not being the other community what sort of progress is possible?
We need as nationalists to embrace these bonys and make them the central plank of our NI indignity and dispose of Irish/Britishness. ;)
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Dire Ear on July 11, 2017, 10:43:18 AM
It will probably take a serious accident to occur before anything is done.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 11, 2017, 10:45:20 AM
It will probably take a serious accident to occur before anything is done.

A tragedy is waiting to happen. Every year they build them bigger and in stupider areas.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: punt kick on July 11, 2017, 11:52:57 AM
It will probably take a serious accident to occur before anything is done.

A tragedy is waiting to happen. Every year they build them bigger and in stupider areas.

Agree. What other civilized society would allow this year after year.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: OgraAnDun on July 11, 2017, 12:02:39 PM
It will probably take a serious accident to occur before anything is done.

A tragedy is waiting to happen. Every year they build them bigger and in stupider areas.

Agree. What other civilized society would allow this year after year.

Fixed.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: SHEEDY on July 11, 2017, 12:07:33 PM
the question is why do people build houses beside bonfire sites?? the man in the clip has a point  ;D ;D

https://youtu.be/h9K_hMsrwRA
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: armaghniac on July 11, 2017, 12:30:25 PM
the question is why do people build houses beside bonfire sites?? the man in the clip has a point  ;D ;D

https://youtu.be/h9K_hMsrwRA

I see Titanic Belfast advertising on those bonfire videos, this may not be wise move.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 11, 2017, 01:02:48 PM
Its madness to be fair, but having worked on the Shankill for a right few years and teaching that age group, thats all they live for!! the bands the bony, the 12th, Rangers and Wet Wet Wet !! They generally cop on and most move away from it altogether but its a way of life unfortuately...

I'd say the numbers are dropping each year and eventually it will burn out (pun intended) a bit like the poppy
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Taylor on July 11, 2017, 01:06:49 PM
You think it will burn out MR?

My experience is many of them hold onto the tradition and even now many in the middle third or second half of their lives still live for this week.

No holidays of any sort planned as they would miss the celebrations.

And their kids are going the same way unfortunately
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: johnneycool on July 11, 2017, 01:24:27 PM
the question is why do people build houses beside bonfire sites?? the man in the clip has a point  ;D ;D

https://youtu.be/h9K_hMsrwRA

Always good to hear David Dunderhead again, I think he was actually serious.  Judging by his accent he's a blow-in to East Belfast.

What pisses me off is that they all get a couple of £K grants and not a word about the cost to clean up, repair the roads, boarding up houses and so forth.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Orior on July 11, 2017, 01:41:07 PM
So has Sinn Fein encouraged the growth of the bonfires and the Twelfth?

Here's a few snippets from the 1960's (or 1970's)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyLJeZF9TnU&t=99s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyLJeZF9TnU&t=99s)
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: BennyCake on July 11, 2017, 01:42:14 PM
the question is why do people build houses beside bonfire sites?? the man in the clip has a point  ;D ;D

https://youtu.be/h9K_hMsrwRA

Show that on TV in England, and the English will demand a border poll - to get this cesspit off their hands.

And Sinn Fein can sit back and not have to do a thing.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: paddyjohn on July 11, 2017, 01:48:26 PM
Its madness to be fair, but having worked on the Shankill for a right few years and teaching that age group, thats all they live for!! the bands the bony, the 12th, Rangers and Wet Wet Wet !! They generally cop on and most move away from it altogether but its a way of life unfortuately...

I'd say the numbers are dropping each year and eventually it will burn out (pun intended) a bit like the poppy

The quicker they burn out the better. I work with 3/4 youths from Ballymena, just out of school and thats all they want to do, bonys band parades and flutes! Super Prods as we call them, Linfield, Chelsea, Rangers and flegs!!! Sad to be honest.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 11, 2017, 02:01:24 PM
You think it will burn out MR?

My experience is many of them hold onto the tradition and even now many in the middle third or second half of their lives still live for this week.

No holidays of any sort planned as they would miss the celebrations.

And their kids are going the same way unfortunately

It's 99% an estate thing, and from my experience of seeing these lads they generally go on hols during that time.

I bumped into an ex student of mine from Carrick the other night, said the usual hows things and you still working away, 23 years old and has girlfriend and kid on the way and is taking himself off from the madness, his words... Another ex student who uses the same gym is off to Spain for a few days, not even a week, just so that he's away... to me the same lads would have been in the class drumming away on their pencils from May!

Look thats only 2 cases but people will eventually cop on, we couldnt bomb Britian into getting a united Ireland, so the train of thought is that lighting bonfires and creating flashpoints at nationalist areas wont get them what they want either, some people take longer to grow up

The more peole ignore these things the better, mentioned a few years ago that I took my dad away for a city break to Derry, managed to be there for the burning of Lundy in the city (pure fluke), so its done just off the main part of town centre and not one person took it under  their noticed, we just happened to drive pass it while it was burning and the taxi man just shurgged his shoulders and said no one cares or gives it any oxygen... I'm sure someone from Derry will say something different but thats what a local cabbie had said
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on July 11, 2017, 02:04:25 PM
"Culture"


Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 11, 2017, 03:05:56 PM
the question is why do people build houses beside bonfire sites?? the man in the clip has a point  ;D ;D

https://youtu.be/h9K_hMsrwRA

Show that on TV in England, and the English will demand a border poll - to get this cesspit off their hands.

And Sinn Fein can sit back and not have to do a thing.

"Culture"




"Scott Sinclair loves bananas"... dear God, in this day and age there's still morons who think that's funny.

Try listening to him saying "yes, I'm a supporter of bonfires" with a straight face  ;D.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: general_lee on July 11, 2017, 03:33:05 PM
I don't think blatant sectarianism and racism should go unchallenged but that's just my opinion. Maybe if we all turn a blind eye they'll stop?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: armaghniac on July 11, 2017, 03:35:56 PM
HOLY SHIT!!!! That is mental... £1.13 for a litre of diesel??!!! That's a quare price!!

They are trying to reduce the volume in their tanks before next Tuesday!


http://www.irishnews.com/picturesarchive/irishnews/irishnews/2017/07/06/185715930-77e9412e-0cf7-4caa-9954-2b8d7cd53457.jpg
It's real, even if the photo makes it look closer than it really is

Surely they would listened to reason,  Near a pertrol station?

They would say that it isn't that close




And up she goes, premature ejaculation. 
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/watch-set-alight-bonfire-built-close-to-northern-ireland-petrol-station-35917048.html
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Avondhu star on July 11, 2017, 07:19:14 PM
You think it will burn out MR?

My experience is many of them hold onto the tradition and even now many in the middle third or second half of their lives still live for this week.

No holidays of any sort planned as they would miss the celebrations.

And their kids are going the same way unfortunately

Wouldn't agree about the no holidays bit.
Check out a few of the Rangers crew in Benidorm etc with their Twelfth marches
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: red hander on July 11, 2017, 07:56:59 PM
I don't think blatant sectarianism and racism should go unchallenged but that's just my opinion. Maybe if we all turn a blind eye they'll stop?

Ah, the Fearon Theory raises its ugly head again  ;)
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Aaron Boone on July 11, 2017, 08:02:47 PM
Stay safe for those of you attending tonght. Please listen carefully to the health & safety announcement as you gather for the festivities.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: yellowcard on July 11, 2017, 08:28:55 PM
This so called culture is not the fault of the young teenagers and unemployed people liviing in working class loyalist areas. They know no different and are encouraged by their older peers to get involved in this bizarre expression of culture. They have been given no direction from their political representatives who have done nothing to discourage these health hazards. My guess is that it will take a serious injury, or worse still a fatality to put an end to these bonfires.

When you have village idiots like Jamie Bryson whipping up young vulnerable people into a frenzy and going unchallenged by unionist leaders, it does nothing to try and keep emotions on an even keel. The poisonous attitude that this hate filled sectarian, racist fest helps create is a blight on any forward thinking society.

Not to mention the cost involved in constructing these bonfires and seeing them literally go up in smoke. That money would be much better channeller into youth groups and societies to take these young people from disadvantaged areas off the streets.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: imtommygunn on July 11, 2017, 08:29:17 PM
There is apparently a bonfire built above a gas mains so they have had to turn the gas mains off for a week as the bonfire won't be shifted. You couldn't make it up.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Dougal Maguire on July 11, 2017, 09:13:38 PM
Rather than turn the gas off they should have doubled the throughput. That would give them a bony and a half
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Itchy on July 11, 2017, 10:36:38 PM
Why do some ye sneak around to these bonfires and light them a day early? You could do it at a time that these knuckle draggers would still be in bed, 9am in the morning for example.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Tony Baloney on July 11, 2017, 10:54:15 PM
There was a tube on yesterday crying about why the police weren't investigating the arson attack on the Dunmurray bonfire  ;D
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: armaghniac on July 11, 2017, 11:01:24 PM
Always in good taste

Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: naka on July 11, 2017, 11:09:12 PM
Can't wait for Ruth Dudley Edwards to defend this cultural night and tell nationalists in the north to get back in their box.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: red hander on July 12, 2017, 12:15:16 AM
Can't wait for Ruth Dudley Edwards to defend this cultural night and tell nationalists in the north to get back in their box.

Don't be holding your breath for that cnutbubble, naka
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Applesisapples on July 12, 2017, 08:40:29 AM
The deafening sound of silence from mainstream unionist parties in relation to the McGuinness and Sinclair incidents in particular really tell you all you need to know, if you didn't already about their hypocritical attitudes.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: LCohen on July 12, 2017, 08:52:02 AM
It's absolutely time for unionist leaders to do something about this.

There won't be an outright ban on bonfires but I can see a concerned resident taking an anonymous case to the courts. This will force a legal reaction and to avoid an outright ban concessions are made re meaningful controls and licensing
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: LCohen on July 12, 2017, 08:56:02 AM
Why do some ye sneak around to these bonfires and light them a day early? You could do it at a time that these knuckle draggers would still be in bed, 9am in the morning for example.

Because that would be a really stupid thing to do.

For reason some enjoy bonfires. I don't get it but I don't object to the actual enjoyment.

I do object to the drain on public resources, the damage done, the damage threatened etc. Lighting the thing a day earlier will make most of that worse.

What do these people make of Grenfell?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 12, 2017, 09:39:27 AM
Look at this video, particularly from 00:25 on. When the fire collapses and blocks off the street, the danger should be evident even to a moron, but these latchycos cheer like it's a great thing. If that's the mentality, there really is no hope.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-40567287 (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-40567287)
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Dougal Maguire on July 12, 2017, 10:51:58 AM
Gay Pride flag was burned on top of at least one bonfire.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Rois on July 12, 2017, 10:57:36 AM
The European flag was also on top of the Sandy Row bonfire (along with tricolours and election posters of course).  I noticed that it sprung up very quickly yesterday - must have been transported from somewhere else as it wasn't beside those apartments the day before.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: dclane on July 12, 2017, 11:01:27 AM
And you all just sit back and do nothing about it...
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Franko on July 12, 2017, 11:10:21 AM
And you all just sit back and do nothing about it...

What would you suggest big lad?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Dougal Maguire on July 12, 2017, 11:14:11 AM
The former First Minister Arlene Foster has said that attempts are being made to demonise culture and people need to 'dial down the rhetoric'. So the 'big lad' might want to start at the top
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 12, 2017, 11:16:59 AM
Just looking at the Twelfth coverage on BBC1 NI out of curiosity. I never realised they marched through the city centre of Belfast. I assumed these days that they mainly marched through unionist/loyalist areas save the odd place where they passed areas of friction. I've been to a few nationalist/republican parades in Belfast, but they've always gone along the Falls Road. I always recognised the orange parades as sectarian but letting this pish march through the city centre is pure sh1te, basically telling Catholics they're not welcome downtown on the day.

Out of interest, could any Belfast posters tell me what Catholics/nationalists/republicans do on these days? I had heard that there is a rebel fest on the Falls with wall-to-wall rebel singers in the pubs but I don't know if that's true.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Franko on July 12, 2017, 11:18:59 AM
Just looking at the Twelfth coverage on BBC1 NI. I never realised they marched through the city centre of Belfast. I assumed these days that they mainly marched through unionist/loyalist areas save the odd place where they passed areas of friction. I've been to a few nationalist/republican parades in Belfast, but they've always gone along the Falls Road. I always recognised the orange parades as sectarian but letting this pish march through the city centre is pure sh1te, basically telling Catholics they're not welcome downtown on the day.

Out of interest, could any Belfast posters tell me what Catholics/nationalists/republicans do on these days? I had heard that there is a rebel fest on the Falls with wall-to-wall rebel singers in the pubs but I don't know if that's true.

A good many go to work.  If you manage to get there and home again, it's the best place to be to ignore the shite.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Owen Brannigan on July 12, 2017, 11:23:24 AM
Virtually every bonfire in N.Ireland last night broke regulations, bye-laws and laws and nothing is being done about by the municipal bodies, the PSNI or the usual handwringing politicians who depend on this part of the community for support.

The true cost of the bonfires should be calculated and fed to the British media who are now so interested in the DUP and their supporters to allow them to highlight the waste of public resources on the 11th night alone.  The best that should be done is for the council and government agencies to leave the mess created by the bonfires until all other priority areas are dealt with as part of their statutory duties.  Don't repair the play parks, the playing fields and the road surfaces until new funds can be allocated to doing so and leave the smouldering remains and other bonfire detritus to be cleaned up by whoever wants in these communities. 

Business and property owners should sue the Belfast City Council and other municipal authorities for damage and not rely on their insurance to pay for the damage. It is clear that the injunctions and removal of funding was due to legal advice provided to BCC about their responsibility for allowing bonfires on their land and as a licensing authority.

On the plus side the level of violence associated with 11/12th activities is now at its lowest for as long as many care to remember. 
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 12, 2017, 11:23:40 AM
Just looking at the Twelfth coverage on BBC1 NI. I never realised they marched through the city centre of Belfast. I assumed these days that they mainly marched through unionist/loyalist areas save the odd place where they passed areas of friction. I've been to a few nationalist/republican parades in Belfast, but they've always gone along the Falls Road. I always recognised the orange parades as sectarian but letting this pish march through the city centre is pure sh1te, basically telling Catholics they're not welcome downtown on the day.

Out of interest, could any Belfast posters tell me what Catholics/nationalists/republicans do on these days? I had heard that there is a rebel fest on the Falls with wall-to-wall rebel singers in the pubs but I don't know if that's true.

A good many go to work.  If you manage to get there and home again, it's the best place to be to ignore the shite.

Is everyone not off with it being a bank holiday though? I know not everyone, bar staff, nurses, police etc, gets a bank holiday but I presumed the majority would.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: imtommygunn on July 12, 2017, 11:24:46 AM
Get out of belfast is generally what we do. 

Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: dclane on July 12, 2017, 11:24:59 AM
And you all just sit back and do nothing about it...

What would you suggest big lad?
I don't live there so I don't care. You boys do nothing but complain about it. Got off the internet and go do something about it.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: hardstation on July 12, 2017, 11:25:13 AM
Just looking at the Twelfth coverage on BBC1 NI out of curiosity. I never realised they marched through the city centre of Belfast. I assumed these days that they mainly marched through unionist/loyalist areas save the odd place where they passed areas of friction. I've been to a few nationalist/republican parades in Belfast, but they've always gone along the Falls Road. I always recognised the orange parades as sectarian but letting this pish march through the city centre is pure sh1te, basically telling Catholics they're not welcome downtown on the day.

Out of interest, could any Belfast posters tell me what Catholics/nationalists/republicans do on these days? I had heard that there is a rebel fest on the Falls with wall-to-wall rebel singers in the pubs but I don't know if that's true.
Go to Donegal.
Sit in the house.
Go for a pint and thank King Billy for the day off.
Cut the grass.
Endulge in recreational rioting at a parade flashpoint.
Go to work.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Franko on July 12, 2017, 11:28:45 AM
Just looking at the Twelfth coverage on BBC1 NI. I never realised they marched through the city centre of Belfast. I assumed these days that they mainly marched through unionist/loyalist areas save the odd place where they passed areas of friction. I've been to a few nationalist/republican parades in Belfast, but they've always gone along the Falls Road. I always recognised the orange parades as sectarian but letting this pish march through the city centre is pure sh1te, basically telling Catholics they're not welcome downtown on the day.

Out of interest, could any Belfast posters tell me what Catholics/nationalists/republicans do on these days? I had heard that there is a rebel fest on the Falls with wall-to-wall rebel singers in the pubs but I don't know if that's true.

A good many go to work.  If you manage to get there and home again, it's the best place to be to ignore the shite.

Is everyone not off with it being a bank holiday though? I know not everyone, bar staff, nurses, police etc, gets a bank holiday but I presumed the majority would.

Yeah, it's a bank holiday, but anyone in the private sector with an understanding boss usually gets away with working and using the days holiday when you can actually go somewhere.  Ie. without worrying if the GAA top the young boy is wearing in the back seat is going to get you a hiding.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 12, 2017, 11:29:32 AM
Virtually every bonfire in N.Ireland last night broke regulations, bye-laws and laws and nothing is being done about by the municipal bodies, the PSNI or the usual handwringing politicians who depend on this part of the community for support.

The true cost of the bonfires should be calculated and fed to the British media who are now so interested in the DUP and their supporters to allow them to highlight the waste of public resources on the 11th night alone.  The best that should be done is for the council and government agencies to leave the mess created by the bonfires until all other priority areas are dealt with as part of their statutory duties.  Don't repair the play parks, the playing fields and the road surfaces until new funds can be allocated to doing so and leave the smouldering remains and other bonfire detritus to be cleaned up by whoever wants in these communities. 

Business and property owners should sue the Belfast City Council and other municipal authorities for damage and not rely on their insurance to pay for the damage. It is clear that the injunctions and removal of funding was due to legal advice provided to BCC about their responsibility for allowing bonfires on their land and as a licensing authority.

On the plus side the level of violence associated with 11/12th activities is now at its lowest for as long as many care to remember.

In terms of money lost on the 11th, money must be lost hand-over-fist on the 12th too. Go to any city centre in Ireland or the UK on a bank holiday and it's pure black with people shopping, going to restaurants, cafés, pubs, cinema etc. Judging by the pictures on BBC1, the whole of Belfast city centre grinds to a standstill. It's full of people sure, but the majority of them look like they'd think a fish supper was cultural.

The irony of them burning EU flags but their bands playing Ode to Joy is something!
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: punt kick on July 12, 2017, 11:29:49 AM
And you all just sit back and do nothing about it...

What would you suggest big lad?
I don't live there so I don't care. You boys do nothing but complain about it. Got off the internet and go do something about it.

You don't care yet you care enough to post. I assume you are in your early teens?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Franko on July 12, 2017, 11:30:58 AM
And you all just sit back and do nothing about it...

What would you suggest big lad?
I don't live there so I don't care. You boys do nothing but complain about it. Got off the internet and go do something about it.

Ah right, fcuk all to add then.  Useful boy you.

I suppose you're 'alright' where you are?  ;)
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 12, 2017, 11:32:33 AM
Just looking at the Twelfth coverage on BBC1 NI out of curiosity. I never realised they marched through the city centre of Belfast. I assumed these days that they mainly marched through unionist/loyalist areas save the odd place where they passed areas of friction. I've been to a few nationalist/republican parades in Belfast, but they've always gone along the Falls Road. I always recognised the orange parades as sectarian but letting this pish march through the city centre is pure sh1te, basically telling Catholics they're not welcome downtown on the day.

Out of interest, could any Belfast posters tell me what Catholics/nationalists/republicans do on these days? I had heard that there is a rebel fest on the Falls with wall-to-wall rebel singers in the pubs but I don't know if that's true.
Go to Donegal.
Sit in the house.
Go for a pint and thank King Billy for the day off.
Cut the grass.
Endulge in recreational rioting at a parade flashpoint.
Go to work.

Lol, I get your point but I would find the concept of not being able to go into Kilkenny city centre for fear of getting my head caved in bizarre.

Just looking at the Twelfth coverage on BBC1 NI. I never realised they marched through the city centre of Belfast. I assumed these days that they mainly marched through unionist/loyalist areas save the odd place where they passed areas of friction. I've been to a few nationalist/republican parades in Belfast, but they've always gone along the Falls Road. I always recognised the orange parades as sectarian but letting this pish march through the city centre is pure sh1te, basically telling Catholics they're not welcome downtown on the day.

Out of interest, could any Belfast posters tell me what Catholics/nationalists/republicans do on these days? I had heard that there is a rebel fest on the Falls with wall-to-wall rebel singers in the pubs but I don't know if that's true.

A good many go to work.  If you manage to get there and home again, it's the best place to be to ignore the shite.

Is everyone not off with it being a bank holiday though? I know not everyone, bar staff, nurses, police etc, gets a bank holiday but I presumed the majority would.

Yeah, it's a bank holiday, but anyone in the private sector with an understanding boss usually gets away with working and using the days holiday when you can actually go somewhere.  Ie. without worrying if the GAA top the young boy is wearing in the back seat is going to get you a hiding.

Ah, at least that's somewhat positive.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: dclane on July 12, 2017, 11:34:00 AM
And you all just sit back and do nothing about it...

What would you suggest big lad?
I don't live there so I don't care. You boys do nothing but complain about it. Got off the internet and go do something about it.

Ah right, fcuk all to add then.  Useful boy you.

I suppose you're 'alright' where you are?  ;)
I'm fine thank you.
You keep complaining about it on the internet though. That will get you places alright.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 12, 2017, 11:34:59 AM
The Sash yyyeeettt again... "one song, you only have one song..." comes to mind.

I'd swear a lot of the other tunes are the same airs as some rebel songs are sung to.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: LCohen on July 12, 2017, 11:35:45 AM
Just looking at the Twelfth coverage on BBC1 NI out of curiosity. I never realised they marched through the city centre of Belfast. I assumed these days that they mainly marched through unionist/loyalist areas save the odd place where they passed areas of friction. I've been to a few nationalist/republican parades in Belfast, but they've always gone along the Falls Road. I always recognised the orange parades as sectarian but letting this pish march through the city centre is pure sh1te, basically telling Catholics they're not welcome downtown on the day.

Out of interest, could any Belfast posters tell me what Catholics/nationalists/republicans do on these days? I had heard that there is a rebel fest on the Falls with wall-to-wall rebel singers in the pubs but I don't know if that's true.

Catholics do the same as most of the the rest of us.

Get out of the place is less of an option when it falls on a Wednesday. I cut the lawn. About to start on the hedges and then the weeds. I like to think of it as green fest
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Dougal Maguire on July 12, 2017, 11:38:53 AM
And you all just sit back and do nothing about it...

What would you suggest big lad?
I don't live there so I don't care. You boys do nothing but complain about it. Got off the internet and go do something about it.
The former Deputy First Minister has been unable to do anything. The media have raised it and can't do anything. Where do you live? Do you not follow the news here?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Franko on July 12, 2017, 11:38:58 AM
And you all just sit back and do nothing about it...

What would you suggest big lad?
I don't live there so I don't care. You boys do nothing but complain about it. Got off the internet and go do something about it.

Ah right, fcuk all to add then.  Useful boy you.

I suppose you're 'alright' where you are?  ;)
I'm fine thank you.
You keep complaining about it on the internet though. That will get you places alright.

What though?  We're all ears.  You're full of the bluster but you're light on the substance.

You keep complaining about people complaining on the internet?  Maybe you should get out and do something about that?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: LCohen on July 12, 2017, 11:39:29 AM
Virtually every bonfire in N.Ireland last night broke regulations, bye-laws and laws and nothing is being done about by the municipal bodies, the PSNI or the usual handwringing politicians who depend on this part of the community for support.

The true cost of the bonfires should be calculated and fed to the British media who are now so interested in the DUP and their supporters to allow them to highlight the waste of public resources on the 11th night alone.  The best that should be done is for the council and government agencies to leave the mess created by the bonfires until all other priority areas are dealt with as part of their statutory duties.  Don't repair the play parks, the playing fields and the road surfaces until new funds can be allocated to doing so and leave the smouldering remains and other bonfire detritus to be cleaned up by whoever wants in these communities. 

Business and property owners should sue the Belfast City Council and other municipal authorities for damage and not rely on their insurance to pay for the damage. It is clear that the injunctions and removal of funding was due to legal advice provided to BCC about their responsibility for allowing bonfires on their land and as a licensing authority.

On the plus side the level of violence associated with 11/12th activities is now at its lowest for as long as many care to remember.

In terms of money lost on the 11th, money must be lost hand-over-fist on the 12th too. Go to any city centre in Ireland or the UK on a bank holiday and it's pure black with people shopping, going to restaurants, cafés, pubs, cinema etc. Judging by the pictures on BBC1, the whole of Belfast city centre grinds to a standstill. It's full of people sure, but the majority of them look like they'd think a fish supper was cultural.

The irony of them burning EU flags but their bands playing Ode to Joy is something!

It's worse than that. A lot of restaurants etc closed for the week and some for 2. Hard to build a tourist industry around that in July.

The British Open golf will hopefully spark some progress
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: dclane on July 12, 2017, 11:43:05 AM
And you all just sit back and do nothing about it...

What would you suggest big lad?
I don't live there so I don't care. You boys do nothing but complain about it. Got off the internet and go do something about it.

Ah right, fcuk all to add then.  Useful boy you.

I suppose you're 'alright' where you are?  ;)
I'm fine thank you.
You keep complaining about it on the internet though. That will get you places alright.

What though?  We're all ears.  You're full of the bluster but you're light on the substance.

You keep complaining about people complaining on the internet?  Maybe you should get out and do something about that?
Keep deflecting from the fact that you are doing nothing about it but complain on the internet. You can call me names all you want but it's you who wants it to change but still wont do anything.
Start small. Go and start a protest. I don't care.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 12, 2017, 11:45:43 AM
Just looking at the Twelfth coverage on BBC1 NI out of curiosity. I never realised they marched through the city centre of Belfast. I assumed these days that they mainly marched through unionist/loyalist areas save the odd place where they passed areas of friction. I've been to a few nationalist/republican parades in Belfast, but they've always gone along the Falls Road. I always recognised the orange parades as sectarian but letting this pish march through the city centre is pure sh1te, basically telling Catholics they're not welcome downtown on the day.

Out of interest, could any Belfast posters tell me what Catholics/nationalists/republicans do on these days? I had heard that there is a rebel fest on the Falls with wall-to-wall rebel singers in the pubs but I don't know if that's true.

Catholics do the same as most of the the rest of us.

Get out of the place is less of an option when it falls on a Wednesday. I cut the lawn. About to start on the hedges and then the weeds. I like to think of it as green fest

Lol

Look at this pair...




The darker one said "we plan it every year, plan what we're going to wear..."

The Minnie Mouse look must be in in 2017!

lmfao!!!
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: north_antrim_hound on July 12, 2017, 11:49:19 AM
Just looking at the Twelfth coverage on BBC1 NI. I never realised they marched through the city centre of Belfast. I assumed these days that they mainly marched through unionist/loyalist areas save the odd place where they passed areas of friction. I've been to a few nationalist/republican parades in Belfast, but they've always gone along the Falls Road. I always recognised the orange parades as sectarian but letting this pish march through the city centre is pure sh1te, basically telling Catholics they're not welcome downtown on the day.

Out of interest, could any Belfast posters tell me what Catholics/nationalists/republicans do on these days? I had heard that there is a rebel fest on the Falls with wall-to-wall rebel singers in the pubs but I don't know if that's true.

A good many go to work.  If you manage to get there and home again, it's the best place to be to ignore the shite.

Is everyone not off with it being a bank holiday though? I know not everyone, bar staff, nurses, police etc, gets a bank holiday but I presumed the majority would.

It seems to be getting less crowds every year. I am working ( self employed ) so no impact there
It only gets to you if you let it, they used to March up
Our Main Street in dunloy but annual road sit downs and protest have changed all that
A prodestant friend of mine asks my once did it bother me
I said
No if someone wants to wear a bowler hat and a orange sash and walk somewhere looking like that to commemorate a Dutchman crossing a river in the republic 400 years ago then knock yourself out

The confrontation only happens because they don't want to March in their own areas they want to go to as many nationalist areas as they can and rub your nose in it
See Ardoyne today

The parades commission has changed most of that but not all see things are slowly changing

Imm not a shrink but when you try and analyse their mental state it's just insecurities about their national identity
They know deep down this is Ireland and not the U.K. from a moral perspective so it's really a case of
"Thou  doth protest to much "
I bit like who are are you trying to kid here us or yourselves

Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 12, 2017, 11:51:17 AM
And you all just sit back and do nothing about it...

What would you suggest big lad?
I don't live there so I don't care. You boys do nothing but complain about it. Got off the internet and go do something about it.

Ah right, fcuk all to add then.  Useful boy you.

I suppose you're 'alright' where you are?  ;)
I'm fine thank you.
You keep complaining about it on the internet though. That will get you places alright.

What though?  We're all ears.  You're full of the bluster but you're light on the substance.

You keep complaining about people complaining on the internet?  Maybe you should get out and do something about that?
Keep deflecting from the fact that you are doing nothing about it but complain on the internet. You can call me names all you want but it's you who wants it to change but still wont do anything.
Start small. Go and start a protest. I don't care.

If you don't care, why comment?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: dclane on July 12, 2017, 11:52:06 AM
Just looking at the Twelfth coverage on BBC1 NI. I never realised they marched through the city centre of Belfast. I assumed these days that they mainly marched through unionist/loyalist areas save the odd place where they passed areas of friction. I've been to a few nationalist/republican parades in Belfast, but they've always gone along the Falls Road. I always recognised the orange parades as sectarian but letting this pish march through the city centre is pure sh1te, basically telling Catholics they're not welcome downtown on the day.

Out of interest, could any Belfast posters tell me what Catholics/nationalists/republicans do on these days? I had heard that there is a rebel fest on the Falls with wall-to-wall rebel singers in the pubs but I don't know if that's true.

A good many go to work.  If you manage to get there and home again, it's the best place to be to ignore the shite.

Is everyone not off with it being a bank holiday though? I know not everyone, bar staff, nurses, police etc, gets a bank holiday but I presumed the majority would.

It seems to be getting less crowds every year. I am working ( self employed ) so no impact there
It only gets to you if you let it, they used to March up
Our Main Street in dunloy but annual road sit downs and protest have changed all that
A prodestant friend of mine asks my once did it bother me
I said
No if someone wants to wear a bowler hat and a orange sash and walk somewhere looking like that to commemorate a Dutchman crossing a river in the republic 400 years ago then knock yourself out

The confrontation only happens because they don't want to March in their own areas they want to go to as many nationalist areas as they can and rub your nose in it
See Ardoyne today

The parades commission has changed most of that but not all see things are slowly changing

Imm not a shrink but when you try and analyse their mental state it's just insecurities about their national identity
They know deep down this is Ireland and not the U.K. from a moral perspective so it's really a case of
"Thou  doth protest to much "
I bit like who are are you trying to kid here us or yourselves
Fair play. Ye got off yer holes and did something about it.
Kudos to your people.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: dclane on July 12, 2017, 11:53:11 AM
And you all just sit back and do nothing about it...

What would you suggest big lad?
I don't live there so I don't care. You boys do nothing but complain about it. Got off the internet and go do something about it.

Ah right, fcuk all to add then.  Useful boy you.

I suppose you're 'alright' where you are?  ;)
I'm fine thank you.
You keep complaining about it on the internet though. That will get you places alright.

What though?  We're all ears.  You're full of the bluster but you're light on the substance.

You keep complaining about people complaining on the internet?  Maybe you should get out and do something about that?
Keep deflecting from the fact that you are doing nothing about it but complain on the internet. You can call me names all you want but it's you who wants it to change but still wont do anything.
Start small. Go and start a protest. I don't care.

If you don't care, why comment?
Ridiculous comment. If I want to comment I'll comment. Caring or not makes no difference.  Now can we put that stupid retort to bed once and for all.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: BennyCake on July 12, 2017, 11:54:57 AM
Just looking at the Twelfth coverage on BBC1 NI out of curiosity. I never realised they marched through the city centre of Belfast. I assumed these days that they mainly marched through unionist/loyalist areas save the odd place where they passed areas of friction. I've been to a few nationalist/republican parades in Belfast, but they've always gone along the Falls Road. I always recognised the orange parades as sectarian but letting this pish march through the city centre is pure sh1te, basically telling Catholics they're not welcome downtown on the day.

Out of interest, could any Belfast posters tell me what Catholics/nationalists/republicans do on these days? I had heard that there is a rebel fest on the Falls with wall-to-wall rebel singers in the pubs but I don't know if that's true.

Catholics do the same as most of the the rest of us.

Get out of the place is less of an option when it falls on a Wednesday. I cut the lawn. About to start on the hedges and then the weeds. I like to think of it as green fest

Lol

Look at this pair...




The darker one said "we plan it every year, plan what we're going to wear..."

The Minnie Mouse look must be in in 2017!

lmfao!!!

Christ almighty. Then again, I think the same when I see people on St Patrick's day wearing stupid lephrachaun hats.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 12, 2017, 11:55:43 AM
Just looking at the Twelfth coverage on BBC1 NI. I never realised they marched through the city centre of Belfast. I assumed these days that they mainly marched through unionist/loyalist areas save the odd place where they passed areas of friction. I've been to a few nationalist/republican parades in Belfast, but they've always gone along the Falls Road. I always recognised the orange parades as sectarian but letting this pish march through the city centre is pure sh1te, basically telling Catholics they're not welcome downtown on the day.

Out of interest, could any Belfast posters tell me what Catholics/nationalists/republicans do on these days? I had heard that there is a rebel fest on the Falls with wall-to-wall rebel singers in the pubs but I don't know if that's true.

A good many go to work.  If you manage to get there and home again, it's the best place to be to ignore the shite.

Is everyone not off with it being a bank holiday though? I know not everyone, bar staff, nurses, police etc, gets a bank holiday but I presumed the majority would.

It seems to be getting less crowds every year. I am working ( self employed ) so no impact there
It only gets to you if you let it, they used to March up
Our Main Street in dunloy but annual road sit downs and protest have changed all that
A prodestant friend of mine asks my once did it bother me
I said
No if someone wants to wear a bowler hat and a orange sash and walk somewhere looking like that to commemorate a Dutchman crossing a river in the republic 400 years ago then knock yourself out

The confrontation only happens because they don't want to March in their own areas they want to go to as many nationalist areas as they can and rub your nose in it
See Ardoyne today

The parades commission has changed most of that but not all see things are slowly changing

Imm not a shrink but when you try and analyse their mental state it's just insecurities about their national identity
They know deep down this is Ireland and not the U.K. from a moral perspective so it's really a case of
"Thou  doth protest to much "
I bit like who are are you trying to kid here us or yourselves

Agree wholeheartedly, I was born in Kilkenny but grew up in Wales before returning Noreside in adult life. I can honestly say that 95% of Welsh people have zero interest and those who do think it's bizarre that there are Irish people who think they're British, particularly as almost no Welsh people really consider Britishness to be a significant part of their identity. I always say Britishness exists only in the ruling classes in the Home Counties and in unionist/loyalist areas of Belfast; the Scottish consider themselves Scottish, the Welsh Welsh and the vast majority of the English English.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 12, 2017, 11:57:35 AM
Just looking at the Twelfth coverage on BBC1 NI out of curiosity. I never realised they marched through the city centre of Belfast. I assumed these days that they mainly marched through unionist/loyalist areas save the odd place where they passed areas of friction. I've been to a few nationalist/republican parades in Belfast, but they've always gone along the Falls Road. I always recognised the orange parades as sectarian but letting this pish march through the city centre is pure sh1te, basically telling Catholics they're not welcome downtown on the day.

Out of interest, could any Belfast posters tell me what Catholics/nationalists/republicans do on these days? I had heard that there is a rebel fest on the Falls with wall-to-wall rebel singers in the pubs but I don't know if that's true.

Catholics do the same as most of the the rest of us.

Get out of the place is less of an option when it falls on a Wednesday. I cut the lawn. About to start on the hedges and then the weeds. I like to think of it as green fest

Lol

Look at this pair...




The darker one said "we plan it every year, plan what we're going to wear..."

The Minnie Mouse look must be in in 2017!

lmfao!!!

Christ almighty. Then again, I think the same when I see people on St Patrick's day wearing stupid lephrachaun hats.

Yeah but I'm going to go with the notion that the vast majority of those wearing leprechaun hats on St. Patrick's Day are tourists... and almost none "plan it".
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Franko on July 12, 2017, 12:08:34 PM
And you all just sit back and do nothing about it...

What would you suggest big lad?
I don't live there so I don't care. You boys do nothing but complain about it. Got off the internet and go do something about it.

Ah right, fcuk all to add then.  Useful boy you.

I suppose you're 'alright' where you are?  ;)
I'm fine thank you.
You keep complaining about it on the internet though. That will get you places alright.

What though?  We're all ears.  You're full of the bluster but you're light on the substance.

You keep complaining about people complaining on the internet?  Maybe you should get out and do something about that?
Keep deflecting from the fact that you are doing nothing about it but complain on the internet. You can call me names all you want but it's you who wants it to change but still wont do anything.
Start small. Go and start a protest. I don't care.

Again nothing then.  Good man.

Why mention it then?  Also, what names did I call you?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Franko on July 12, 2017, 12:15:48 PM
And you all just sit back and do nothing about it...

What would you suggest big lad?
I don't live there so I don't care. You boys do nothing but complain about it. Got off the internet and go do something about it.

Ah right, fcuk all to add then.  Useful boy you.

I suppose you're 'alright' where you are?  ;)
I'm fine thank you.
You keep complaining about it on the internet though. That will get you places alright.

What though?  We're all ears.  You're full of the bluster but you're light on the substance.

You keep complaining about people complaining on the internet?  Maybe you should get out and do something about that?
Keep deflecting from the fact that you are doing nothing about it but complain on the internet. You can call me names all you want but it's you who wants it to change but still wont do anything.
Start small. Go and start a protest. I don't care.

If you don't care, why comment?
Ridiculous comment. If I want to comment I'll comment. Caring or not makes no difference.  Now can we put that stupid retort to bed once and for all.

Right, and if someone else wants to complain about, they can complain about it.  Stupid retorts he says  ::).  Or is the irony lost on you?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 12, 2017, 12:16:58 PM
Congratulations to the BBC on interviewing the clown in the Rangers tshirt with "We Are The People" stitched underneath the badge. That kind of stuff would land the interviewer her P45 if it was bigotry against anyone but the Irish.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: north_antrim_hound on July 12, 2017, 12:19:09 PM
Just looking at the Twelfth coverage on BBC1 NI. I never realised they marched through the city centre of Belfast. I assumed these days that they mainly marched through unionist/loyalist areas save the odd place where they passed areas of friction. I've been to a few nationalist/republican parades in Belfast, but they've always gone along the Falls Road. I always recognised the orange parades as sectarian but letting this pish march through the city centre is pure sh1te, basically telling Catholics they're not welcome downtown on the day.

Out of interest, could any Belfast posters tell me what Catholics/nationalists/republicans do on these days? I had heard that there is a rebel fest on the Falls with wall-to-wall rebel singers in the pubs but I don't know if that's true.

A good many go to work.  If you manage to get there and home again, it's the best place to be to ignore the shite.

Is everyone not off with it being a bank holiday though? I know not everyone, bar staff, nurses, police etc, gets a bank holiday but I presumed the majority would.

It seems to be getting less crowds every year. I am working ( self employed ) so no impact there
It only gets to you if you let it, they used to March up
Our Main Street in dunloy but annual road sit downs and protest have changed all that
A prodestant friend of mine asks my once did it bother me
I said
No if someone wants to wear a bowler hat and a orange sash and walk somewhere looking like that to commemorate a Dutchman crossing a river in the republic 400 years ago then knock yourself out

The confrontation only happens because they don't want to March in their own areas they want to go to as many nationalist areas as they can and rub your nose in it
See Ardoyne today

The parades commission has changed most of that but not all see things are slowly changing

Imm not a shrink but when you try and analyse their mental state it's just insecurities about their national identity
They know deep down this is Ireland and not the U.K. from a moral perspective so it's really a case of
"Thou  doth protest to much "
I bit like who are are you trying to kid here us or yourselves

Agree wholeheartedly, I was born in Kilkenny but grew up in Wales before returning Noreside in adult life. I can honestly say that 95% of Welsh people have zero interest and those who do think it's bizarre that there are Irish people who think they're British, particularly as almost no Welsh people really consider Britishness to be a significant part of their identity. I always say Britishness exists only in the ruling classes in the Home Counties and in unionist/loyalist areas of Belfast; the Scottish consider themselves Scottish, the Welsh Welsh and the vast majority of the English English.

That's the whole crux of it right there
Imm in my 50s now and grew up with it, I was never active but have to acknowledge the ones who where brought us to the good Friday agreement and some form of equality
when my teenage kids where younger they didn't experience the troubles but when they ask me about all the British flags and why are they flying in Ireland
I just tell them that the land was taken from us and given to english and Scottish  Settlers by the British. I tell them that deep down they know this was wrong and have insecurities about it
They know deep down they are perceived as Irish by the rest of the world so they must try harder to project British sovereignty
But us as northern Irish nationalist don't have to fly flags and March and try and fool ourselves
We are Irish, we live in a land that was here long before those flags where here and it will be here long after the flags have gone
And when they are gone the prodestant people will still here and we have to live with them in equality
We can not subject them to what they subjected us to or we are just hypocrites
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 12, 2017, 12:19:33 PM
And you all just sit back and do nothing about it...

What would you suggest big lad?
I don't live there so I don't care. You boys do nothing but complain about it. Got off the internet and go do something about it.

Ah right, fcuk all to add then.  Useful boy you.

I suppose you're 'alright' where you are?  ;)
I'm fine thank you.
You keep complaining about it on the internet though. That will get you places alright.

What though?  We're all ears.  You're full of the bluster but you're light on the substance.

You keep complaining about people complaining on the internet?  Maybe you should get out and do something about that?
Keep deflecting from the fact that you are doing nothing about it but complain on the internet. You can call me names all you want but it's you who wants it to change but still wont do anything.
Start small. Go and start a protest. I don't care.

If you don't care, why comment?
Ridiculous comment. If I want to comment I'll comment. Caring or not makes no difference.  Now can we put that stupid retort to bed once and for all.

If you want to comment, you are absolutely right to do so... the irony is going to the effort of commenting on something "you don't care about".
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: BennyCake on July 12, 2017, 12:26:41 PM
Just looking at the Twelfth coverage on BBC1 NI out of curiosity. I never realised they marched through the city centre of Belfast. I assumed these days that they mainly marched through unionist/loyalist areas save the odd place where they passed areas of friction. I've been to a few nationalist/republican parades in Belfast, but they've always gone along the Falls Road. I always recognised the orange parades as sectarian but letting this pish march through the city centre is pure sh1te, basically telling Catholics they're not welcome downtown on the day.

Out of interest, could any Belfast posters tell me what Catholics/nationalists/republicans do on these days? I had heard that there is a rebel fest on the Falls with wall-to-wall rebel singers in the pubs but I don't know if that's true.

Catholics do the same as most of the the rest of us.

Get out of the place is less of an option when it falls on a Wednesday. I cut the lawn. About to start on the hedges and then the weeds. I like to think of it as green fest

Lol

Look at this pair...




The darker one said "we plan it every year, plan what we're going to wear..."

The Minnie Mouse look must be in in 2017!

lmfao!!!

Christ almighty. Then again, I think the same when I see people on St Patrick's day wearing stupid lephrachaun hats.

Yeah but I'm going to go with the notion that the vast majority of those wearing leprechaun hats on St. Patrick's Day are tourists... and almost none "plan it".

Really? I've seen hundreds of locals wearing them. So they're no difference to those two.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 12, 2017, 12:35:36 PM
Just looking at the Twelfth coverage on BBC1 NI. I never realised they marched through the city centre of Belfast. I assumed these days that they mainly marched through unionist/loyalist areas save the odd place where they passed areas of friction. I've been to a few nationalist/republican parades in Belfast, but they've always gone along the Falls Road. I always recognised the orange parades as sectarian but letting this pish march through the city centre is pure sh1te, basically telling Catholics they're not welcome downtown on the day.

Out of interest, could any Belfast posters tell me what Catholics/nationalists/republicans do on these days? I had heard that there is a rebel fest on the Falls with wall-to-wall rebel singers in the pubs but I don't know if that's true.

A good many go to work.  If you manage to get there and home again, it's the best place to be to ignore the shite.

Is everyone not off with it being a bank holiday though? I know not everyone, bar staff, nurses, police etc, gets a bank holiday but I presumed the majority would.

It seems to be getting less crowds every year. I am working ( self employed ) so no impact there
It only gets to you if you let it, they used to March up
Our Main Street in dunloy but annual road sit downs and protest have changed all that
A prodestant friend of mine asks my once did it bother me
I said
No if someone wants to wear a bowler hat and a orange sash and walk somewhere looking like that to commemorate a Dutchman crossing a river in the republic 400 years ago then knock yourself out

The confrontation only happens because they don't want to March in their own areas they want to go to as many nationalist areas as they can and rub your nose in it
See Ardoyne today

The parades commission has changed most of that but not all see things are slowly changing

Imm not a shrink but when you try and analyse their mental state it's just insecurities about their national identity
They know deep down this is Ireland and not the U.K. from a moral perspective so it's really a case of
"Thou  doth protest to much "
I bit like who are are you trying to kid here us or yourselves

Agree wholeheartedly, I was born in Kilkenny but grew up in Wales before returning Noreside in adult life. I can honestly say that 95% of Welsh people have zero interest and those who do think it's bizarre that there are Irish people who think they're British, particularly as almost no Welsh people really consider Britishness to be a significant part of their identity. I always say Britishness exists only in the ruling classes in the Home Counties and in unionist/loyalist areas of Belfast; the Scottish consider themselves Scottish, the Welsh Welsh and the vast majority of the English English.

That's the whole crux of it right there
Imm in my 50s now and grew up with it, I was never active but have to acknowledge the ones who where brought us to the good Friday agreement and some form of equality
when my teenage kids where younger they didn't experience the troubles but when they ask me about all the British flags and why are they flying in Ireland
I just tell them that the land was taken from us and given to english and Scottish  Settlers by the British. I tell them that deep down they know this was wrong and have insecurities about it
They know deep down they are perceived as Irish by the rest of the world so they must try harder to project British sovereignty
But us as northern Irish nationalist don't have to fly flags and March and try and fool ourselves
We are Irish, we live in a land that was here long before those flags where here and it will be here long after the flags have gone
And when they are gone the prodestant people will still here and we have to live with them in equality
We can not subject them to what they subjected us to or we are just hypocrites

I agree, I think there's a gross insecurity complex among the unionists/loyalists. First, they're from Ireland and they can't get away from that niggling feeling that even if they want to call it Northern Ireland, it's still got that word "Ireland" in it. To refer to themselves as coming from Ulster is factually incorrect, at least in as much as they define it as Ulster includes Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan. I think they are also familiar with the idea that people in the (real) UK have no interest whatsoever in them, in reality look at them as "paddies" and would drop them like a hot potato given half a chance. And they know that the time when the UK will drop them is coming sooner or later.

I have nothing against flags and parades. I thoroughly enjoy nationalist/republican ones, but I have noticed a common theme that the nationalist/republican ones march through areas like the Falls where friction will either be non-existent or to an absolute minimum. I know there are the odd parades through town centres but they tend either to be in places like Crossmaglen, see the previous comment about the Falls, or unofficial ones held in places like Lurgan. The problem I have with the Orange marches is that they are like dogs wetting the floor to mark their territory. They disrupt the lives of others who have nothing to do with that "culture" and are more about wiping other people's noses in it than celebrating anything.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 12, 2017, 12:37:05 PM
Just looking at the Twelfth coverage on BBC1 NI out of curiosity. I never realised they marched through the city centre of Belfast. I assumed these days that they mainly marched through unionist/loyalist areas save the odd place where they passed areas of friction. I've been to a few nationalist/republican parades in Belfast, but they've always gone along the Falls Road. I always recognised the orange parades as sectarian but letting this pish march through the city centre is pure sh1te, basically telling Catholics they're not welcome downtown on the day.

Out of interest, could any Belfast posters tell me what Catholics/nationalists/republicans do on these days? I had heard that there is a rebel fest on the Falls with wall-to-wall rebel singers in the pubs but I don't know if that's true.

Catholics do the same as most of the the rest of us.

Get out of the place is less of an option when it falls on a Wednesday. I cut the lawn. About to start on the hedges and then the weeds. I like to think of it as green fest

Lol

Look at this pair...




The darker one said "we plan it every year, plan what we're going to wear..."

The Minnie Mouse look must be in in 2017!

lmfao!!!

Christ almighty. Then again, I think the same when I see people on St Patrick's day wearing stupid lephrachaun hats.

Yeah but I'm going to go with the notion that the vast majority of those wearing leprechaun hats on St. Patrick's Day are tourists... and almost none "plan it".

Really? I've seen hundreds of locals wearing them. So they're no difference to those two.

Maybe so, maybe no. Still ridiculous whatever.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: dclane on July 12, 2017, 12:40:32 PM
And you all just sit back and do nothing about it...

What would you suggest big lad?
I don't live there so I don't care. You boys do nothing but complain about it. Got off the internet and go do something about it.

Ah right, fcuk all to add then.  Useful boy you.

I suppose you're 'alright' where you are?  ;)
I'm fine thank you.
You keep complaining about it on the internet though. That will get you places alright.

What though?  We're all ears.  You're full of the bluster but you're light on the substance.

You keep complaining about people complaining on the internet?  Maybe you should get out and do something about that?
Keep deflecting from the fact that you are doing nothing about it but complain on the internet. You can call me names all you want but it's you who wants it to change but still wont do anything.
Start small. Go and start a protest. I don't care.

Again nothing then.  Good man.

Why mention it then?  Also, what names did I call you?
You are still deflecting from the fact that you are doing nothing about it. Having a go at me is to do nothing.
Have we made that clear? You can keep repeating that I am mentioning stuff and I'm not giving answers and asking why am I posting if I don't  care... all you are doing is deflecting from the fact you are doing nothing about this issue that so obviously and rightly so annoys you.
Look at North Antrim Gael and his crew. they did something.
Im sure your answer to me once again will be something about me  ::)
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Applesisapples on July 12, 2017, 12:43:53 PM
Parades of any variety have no interest for me, but each to their own. Watched a bit there, Christ the commentators were struggling to make it sound interesting, dancing around the pseudo military uniforms, "colourful"...em...
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: dclane on July 12, 2017, 12:44:06 PM
And you all just sit back and do nothing about it...

What would you suggest big lad?
I don't live there so I don't care. You boys do nothing but complain about it. Got off the internet and go do something about it.

Ah right, fcuk all to add then.  Useful boy you.

I suppose you're 'alright' where you are?  ;)
I'm fine thank you.
You keep complaining about it on the internet though. That will get you places alright.

What though?  We're all ears.  You're full of the bluster but you're light on the substance.

You keep complaining about people complaining on the internet?  Maybe you should get out and do something about that?
Keep deflecting from the fact that you are doing nothing about it but complain on the internet. You can call me names all you want but it's you who wants it to change but still wont do anything.
Start small. Go and start a protest. I don't care.

If you don't care, why comment?
Ridiculous comment. If I want to comment I'll comment. Caring or not makes no difference.  Now can we put that stupid retort to bed once and for all.

If you want to comment, you are absolutely right to do so... the irony is going to the effort of commenting on something "you don't care about".
Yes you have established that well done. Can you move on  now please? My original comment has just been met with posts asking me why am I posting if I don't care. We have established that I don't  have to care for me to comment.
You pointed out the irony.  Well done to you.
I take it that particular  chapter is now closed?
My original comment stands.
I believe most of you lot dont want the parades and bonfires to end. If they did you would no longer be the victims..sure who would you complain about then?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Applesisapples on July 12, 2017, 12:45:10 PM
Parades of any variety have no interest for me, but each to their own. Watched a bit there, Christ the commentators were struggling to make it sound interesting, dancing around the pseudo military uniforms, "colourful"...em...
should add not much in the way of music.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 12, 2017, 12:46:36 PM
And you all just sit back and do nothing about it...

What would you suggest big lad?
I don't live there so I don't care. You boys do nothing but complain about it. Got off the internet and go do something about it.

Ah right, fcuk all to add then.  Useful boy you.

I suppose you're 'alright' where you are?  ;)
I'm fine thank you.
You keep complaining about it on the internet though. That will get you places alright.

What though?  We're all ears.  You're full of the bluster but you're light on the substance.

You keep complaining about people complaining on the internet?  Maybe you should get out and do something about that?
Keep deflecting from the fact that you are doing nothing about it but complain on the internet. You can call me names all you want but it's you who wants it to change but still wont do anything.
Start small. Go and start a protest. I don't care.

If you don't care, why comment?
Ridiculous comment. If I want to comment I'll comment. Caring or not makes no difference.  Now can we put that stupid retort to bed once and for all.

If you want to comment, you are absolutely right to do so... the irony is going to the effort of commenting on something "you don't care about".
Yes you have established that well done. Can you move on  now please? My original comment has just been met with posts asking me why am I posting if I don't care. We have established that I don't  have to care for me to comment.
You pointed out the irony.  Well done to you.
I take it that particular  chapter is now closed?
My original comment stands.
I believe most of you lot dont want the parades and bonfires to end. If they did you would no longer be the victims..sure who would you complain about then?

Just has no sense that's all, but then nothing you posted in this thread had any sense anyway so we'll close the door on that... bye bye now.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 12, 2017, 12:50:09 PM
Parades of any variety have no interest for me, but each to their own. Watched a bit there, Christ the commentators were struggling to make it sound interesting, dancing around the pseudo military uniforms, "colourful"...em...

Ah sure, we all like different things. I like the noise of them.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: tiempo on July 12, 2017, 12:50:17 PM
Just looking at the Twelfth coverage on BBC1 NI. I never realised they marched through the city centre of Belfast. I assumed these days that they mainly marched through unionist/loyalist areas save the odd place where they passed areas of friction. I've been to a few nationalist/republican parades in Belfast, but they've always gone along the Falls Road. I always recognised the orange parades as sectarian but letting this pish march through the city centre is pure sh1te, basically telling Catholics they're not welcome downtown on the day.

Out of interest, could any Belfast posters tell me what Catholics/nationalists/republicans do on these days? I had heard that there is a rebel fest on the Falls with wall-to-wall rebel singers in the pubs but I don't know if that's true.

A good many go to work.  If you manage to get there and home again, it's the best place to be to ignore the shite.

Is everyone not off with it being a bank holiday though? I know not everyone, bar staff, nurses, police etc, gets a bank holiday but I presumed the majority would.

It seems to be getting less crowds every year. I am working ( self employed ) so no impact there
It only gets to you if you let it, they used to March up
Our Main Street in dunloy but annual road sit downs and protest have changed all that
A prodestant friend of mine asks my once did it bother me
I said
No if someone wants to wear a bowler hat and a orange sash and walk somewhere looking like that to commemorate a Dutchman crossing a river in the republic 400 years ago then knock yourself out

The confrontation only happens because they don't want to March in their own areas they want to go to as many nationalist areas as they can and rub your nose in it
See Ardoyne today

The parades commission has changed most of that but not all see things are slowly changing

Imm not a shrink but when you try and analyse their mental state it's just insecurities about their national identity
They know deep down this is Ireland and not the U.K. from a moral perspective so it's really a case of
"Thou  doth protest to much "
I bit like who are are you trying to kid here us or yourselves

Agree wholeheartedly, I was born in Kilkenny but grew up in Wales before returning Noreside in adult life. I can honestly say that 95% of Welsh people have zero interest and those who do think it's bizarre that there are Irish people who think they're British, particularly as almost no Welsh people really consider Britishness to be a significant part of their identity. I always say Britishness exists only in the ruling classes in the Home Counties and in unionist/loyalist areas of Belfast; the Scottish consider themselves Scottish, the Welsh Welsh and the vast majority of the English English.

Their ignorance of their own denomination is astounding. Claiming to be British when UK-ish is the best they can hope for and even that is a contrived pile of pish who's days are numbered.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: dclane on July 12, 2017, 12:56:47 PM
And you all just sit back and do nothing about it...

What would you suggest big lad?
I don't live there so I don't care. You boys do nothing but complain about it. Got off the internet and go do something about it.

Ah right, fcuk all to add then.  Useful boy you.

I suppose you're 'alright' where you are?  ;)
I'm fine thank you.
You keep complaining about it on the internet though. That will get you places alright.

What though?  We're all ears.  You're full of the bluster but you're light on the substance.

You keep complaining about people complaining on the internet?  Maybe you should get out and do something about that?
Keep deflecting from the fact that you are doing nothing about it but complain on the internet. You can call me names all you want but it's you who wants it to change but still wont do anything.
Start small. Go and start a protest. I don't care.

If you don't care, why comment?
Ridiculous comment. If I want to comment I'll comment. Caring or not makes no difference.  Now can we put that stupid retort to bed once and for all.

If you want to comment, you are absolutely right to do so... the irony is going to the effort of commenting on something "you don't care about".
Yes you have established that well done. Can you move on  now please? My original comment has just been met with posts asking me why am I posting if I don't care. We have established that I don't  have to care for me to comment.
You pointed out the irony.  Well done to you.
I take it that particular  chapter is now closed?
My original comment stands.
I believe most of you lot dont want the parades and bonfires to end. If they did you would no longer be the victims..sure who would you complain about then?

Just has no sense that's all, but then nothing you posted in this thread had any sense anyway so we'll close the door on that... bye bye now.
See ya.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: imtommygunn on July 12, 2017, 01:01:47 PM
And you all just sit back and do nothing about it...

What would you suggest big lad?
I don't live there so I don't care. You boys do nothing but complain about it. Got off the internet and go do something about it.

Ah right, fcuk all to add then.  Useful boy you.

I suppose you're 'alright' where you are?  ;)
I'm fine thank you.
You keep complaining about it on the internet though. That will get you places alright.

What though?  We're all ears.  You're full of the bluster but you're light on the substance.

You keep complaining about people complaining on the internet?  Maybe you should get out and do something about that?
Keep deflecting from the fact that you are doing nothing about it but complain on the internet. You can call me names all you want but it's you who wants it to change but still wont do anything.
Start small. Go and start a protest. I don't care.

If you don't care, why comment?
Ridiculous comment. If I want to comment I'll comment. Caring or not makes no difference.  Now can we put that stupid retort to bed once and for all.

If you want to comment, you are absolutely right to do so... the irony is going to the effort of commenting on something "you don't care about".
Yes you have established that well done. Can you move on  now please? My original comment has just been met with posts asking me why am I posting if I don't care. We have established that I don't  have to care for me to comment.
You pointed out the irony.  Well done to you.
I take it that particular  chapter is now closed?
My original comment stands.
I believe most of you lot dont want the parades and bonfires to end. If they did you would no longer be the victims..sure who would you complain about then?

Gees you should be a shrink mate.

We all love being trapped in our houses by a bigoted organisation claiming a load of funds of our government when they could be used for useful things. To top it all of we love having to pussy foot round the topic in our workplaces as there will clearly be morons into it.

Highlight of the year.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: 6th sam on July 12, 2017, 01:02:35 PM
A lot of good points , the Dunloy perspective is interesting.
Dclane is being ridiculed for making a very reasonable point. Part of the reason the ridiculous behaviour around the twelfth persists is because nationalists haven't done a very good job of challenging it.
The viewpoint of sit back and ignore it, is the main reason why it persists. If the blacks in Alabama in the 60s didn't challenge the status quo , there'd still be segregation.
I think the points re insecurities are well made, and we need to respect and try to address these unionist insecurities .
However , we must challenge the hatred that has been portrayed as normal , and a positive cultural experience.
We must also challenge the state financial support and expenditure on this unacceptable behaviour.
There are several non-threatening traditions around the music and the community element , which those brought up in that tradition would find hard to give up. But the negative , hatefilled, domination element must be challenged by politicians, isolating the defence of this nonsense by the main unuionist parties and the Tories.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 12, 2017, 01:35:50 PM
A lot of good points , the Dunloy perspective is interesting.
Dclane is being ridiculed for making a very reasonable point. Part of the reason the ridiculous behaviour around the twelfth persists is because nationalists haven't done a very good job of challenging it.
The viewpoint of sit back and ignore it, is the main reason why it persists. If the blacks in Alabama in the 60s didn't challenge the status quo , there'd still be segregation.
I think the points re insecurities are well made, and we need to respect and try to address these unionist insecurities .
However , we must challenge the hatred that has been portrayed as normal , and a positive cultural experience.
We must also challenge the state financial support and expenditure on this unacceptable behaviour.
There are several non-threatening traditions around the music and the community element , which those brought up in that tradition would find hard to give up. But the negative , hatefilled, domination element must be challenged by politicians, isolating the defence of this nonsense by the main unuionist parties and the Tories.

A lot has been achieved in terms of where they can and can't march. A lot of areas which saw contentious parades in the past no longer see them but it's debatable as to how far they can be pushed. They certainly shouldn't have the right to parade through Belfast city centre but take a look at the volume of people out there today, BBC iPlayer has coverage, and it's obvious how difficult pushing them out of there would be. Whilst you're right in aspects of the black rights movement in the US, they still haven't won out. Cops in America still get away with gunning down black guys, black rights, particularly in the southern states are still not completely won. In grossly unfair societies things don't change quickly. Same in the Six Counties.

In my opinion, and I stand to be corrected by northern posters here, the situation has reached a sort of uncomfortable medium. Few parades pass flashpoint areas these days and so they and the bonfires, which are mainly based in unionist/loyalist areas, have lesser immediate impact on the lives of nationalists/republicans these days.

The ideal situation would be that these events were kept exclusively to unionist/loyalist areas and were self-funding but the immediate effects are not felt as strongly as in the past and therefore direct action is no longer as necessary as in the past. When you're irritated by something you have to ask whether it's worth taking the risks associated with taking something on directly and if it's not then your actions have to be subtler.

Ultimately, most nationalists/republicans envisage a united Ireland at some point in the future and know that kicking and screaming about parades and bonfires will delay that day further. Sometimes taking action is the right course, sometimes you have to play the long game. What's the point of creating a stink in the short term knowing you won't win and will only hurt your ultimate goal?

Also, most people are spun out by conflict. Whilst the peace in the Six Counties might be an uneasy one when compared to the rest of Ireland, or from my experience Wales, it is far better than the situation twenty years ago. I get a sense, especially from the nationalist/republican side that their lives are far better than they ever were and they can envisage further progress being made peacefully. As I said, I stand to be corrected by northern posters who actually live the situation but that's my reading.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 12, 2017, 01:45:05 PM
Incidentally, I was right that the Falls does have an "alternative twelfth" and I would take this as an example of indirect action.

I'd be interested to know whether any other Falls venues do anything similar.




And now, having watched an hour fifteen minutes of pure garbage on BBC1 NI, I'm off to clean my ears with some lovely Wolfe Tones ditties.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: imtommygunn on July 12, 2017, 01:59:13 PM
There are more than you might think in contentious areas. Donegall street, ardoyne, short strand.

They are restricted to a drum beat etc and then the locals are penned in.

There are still a few but less than there used to be no doubt.

Definitely moving in the right direction though.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 12, 2017, 02:26:12 PM
There are more than you might think in contentious areas. Donegall street, ardoyne, short strand.

They are restricted to a drum beat etc and then the locals are penned in.

There are still a few but less than there used to be no doubt.

Definitely moving in the right direction though.

Slightly off topic but is Donegall Street not just a city centre street? Or the bottom of it at Waring Street considered close to the Westlink and near the Falls?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: imtommygunn on July 12, 2017, 02:32:04 PM
It is but there is a catholic church at the other end up near carrickhill where there has been a lot of contention before. (There was some controversy the other year with some bands "misbehaving" which led to this)
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: DickyRock on July 12, 2017, 02:38:50 PM
Had the unfortunate task of leaving the Mother in Law to the Europa bus station this morning. She couldn't have picked a better time ::) Right in the middle of the marches. Abandoned the car on Ormeau Road and then lead her on foot to the Europa. Can't fathom how anyone can enjoy that. The flutes are blowing that hard to be heard above the drums, which are just beat as loudly as they can be. Had to run across the Bedford Street between bands.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: armaghniac on July 12, 2017, 03:07:11 PM
Great crack
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/twelfth/watch-belfast-flat-windows-cracked-by-heat-from-sandy-row-bonfire-35922327.html
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: seafoid on July 12, 2017, 03:07:49 PM
John O' Dowd
 ✔  ‎@JohnODowdSF 

Lurgan & Portadown bonfires with stolen posters & GAA flags all to be burnt in a public display of a hate crime. I have reported all to PSNI



Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: yellowcard on July 12, 2017, 03:13:48 PM
Just looking at the Twelfth coverage on BBC1 NI. I never realised they marched through the city centre of Belfast. I assumed these days that they mainly marched through unionist/loyalist areas save the odd place where they passed areas of friction. I've been to a few nationalist/republican parades in Belfast, but they've always gone along the Falls Road. I always recognised the orange parades as sectarian but letting this pish march through the city centre is pure sh1te, basically telling Catholics they're not welcome downtown on the day.

Out of interest, could any Belfast posters tell me what Catholics/nationalists/republicans do on these days? I had heard that there is a rebel fest on the Falls with wall-to-wall rebel singers in the pubs but I don't know if that's true.

A good many go to work.  If you manage to get there and home again, it's the best place to be to ignore the shite.

Is everyone not off with it being a bank holiday though? I know not everyone, bar staff, nurses, police etc, gets a bank holiday but I presumed the majority would.

It seems to be getting less crowds every year. I am working ( self employed ) so no impact there
It only gets to you if you let it, they used to March up
Our Main Street in dunloy but annual road sit downs and protest have changed all that
A prodestant friend of mine asks my once did it bother me
I said
No if someone wants to wear a bowler hat and a orange sash and walk somewhere looking like that to commemorate a Dutchman crossing a river in the republic 400 years ago then knock yourself out

The confrontation only happens because they don't want to March in their own areas they want to go to as many nationalist areas as they can and rub your nose in it
See Ardoyne today


The parades commission has changed most of that but not all see things are slowly changing

Imm not a shrink but when you try and analyse their mental state it's just insecurities about their national identity
They know deep down this is Ireland and not the U.K. from a moral perspective so it's really a case of
"Thou  doth protest to much "
I bit like who are are you trying to kid here us or yourselves

Agree totally.

It's total insecurity and a knowledge that their future as a part of the UK is getting less secure by the year. The unionist leaders do not discourage these bonfire hate fests because they know that they rely on this same hate and division to prolong the union. Deep down they do not ever want the 2 communities to come together so the predominantly middle class often sanctimonious leaders of the DUP allow the working class loyalists to whip up unionists into a frenzy. It helps maintain and deepen division so that communities become more polarised. They are playing on the emotions and fear of the working class unionists to maintain the status quo and come election time it is their base line tactic.   
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: dclane on July 12, 2017, 03:13:58 PM
Incidentally, I was right that the Falls does have an "alternative twelfth" and I would take this as an example of indirect action.

I'd be interested to know whether any other Falls venues do anything similar.




And now, having watched an hour fifteen minutes of pure garbage on BBC1 NI, I'm off to clean my ears with some lovely Wolfe Tones ditties.
You watched an hour and 15 mins of it? Why? Just so you could complain?  Surely that's a sign of madness. Watching something that annoys you.
Btw the Wolfe Tones and those that listen to them are no better than the Unionists and their drums.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 12, 2017, 03:21:40 PM
It is but there is a catholic church at the other end up near carrickhill where there has been a lot of contention before. (There was some controversy the other year with some bands "misbehaving" which led to this)

Thanks.

Had the unfortunate task of leaving the Mother in Law to the Europa bus station this morning. She couldn't have picked a better time ::) Right in the middle of the marches. Abandoned the car on Ormeau Road and then lead her on foot to the Europa. Can't fathom how anyone can enjoy that. The flutes are blowing that hard to be heard above the drums, which are just beat as loudly as they can be. Had to run across the Bedford Street between bands.

Just get this tune into your head "it was old and it was beautiful, and it's colours they are fine"... Now, no matter how loud the drums or screechy the flutes you have about 95% of their repertoire going through your brain anyway.

Incidentally, I was right that the Falls does have an "alternative twelfth" and I would take this as an example of indirect action.

I'd be interested to know whether any other Falls venues do anything similar.




And now, having watched an hour fifteen minutes of pure garbage on BBC1 NI, I'm off to clean my ears with some lovely Wolfe Tones ditties.
You watched an hour and 15 mins of it? Why? Just so you could complain?  Surely that's a sign of madness. Watching something that annoys you.
Btw the Wolfe Tones and those that listen to them are no better than the Unionists and their drums.


Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: clonadmad on July 12, 2017, 04:03:12 PM

No Joy in Dunloy

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/your-say/worshipful-master-our-anger-and-dismay-at-the-denial-of-our-liberties-in-dunloy-1-8051636
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: seafoid on July 12, 2017, 04:26:46 PM

No Joy in Dunloy

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/your-say/worshipful-master-our-anger-and-dismay-at-the-denial-of-our-liberties-in-dunloy-1-8051636

LOLZ
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: punt kick on July 12, 2017, 04:29:17 PM
Pretty much says it all. :)
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Hereiam on July 12, 2017, 04:38:50 PM
If they kept it to one day instead of months of marching then it would be a start
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: seafoid on July 12, 2017, 04:57:49 PM
the thing  about Irish people who think they are British....the Daily Mail ran a controversial cartoon regarding the deal with the tories. It featured crude stereotypes about Irish people.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4641774/Mac-Theresa-s-deal-DUP.html

If the Daily Mail takes the piss out of Unionists and in the process denies their Britishness ....
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: clonadmad on July 12, 2017, 05:01:55 PM
"Militant cultural imperialists" No less

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/senior-orangeman-tells-crowd-sinn-fein-wants-north-to-be-more-irish-than-the-republic-797517.html
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: north_antrim_hound on July 12, 2017, 05:07:05 PM
Well they where allowed to march up the street until some years ago they stood at the church on the Main Street and waited for all the hurling supporters coming home from  a big match before they started marching
Wasn't good enough to get it done quickly and go
They waited to the place was full of Catholics and then started to March
The details are sketchy in my mind but a full blown riot ensued
Our village is 98.7 % catholic and most of those orangemen don't live within 5 miles of the place
But they have an orange hall in the village
The church is on the Main Street and has only sustained damage once by some local half wits
We had collections at mass to pay for the damage to their church
Finlay is a nasty piece of work and refused to work with SF councillors in ballymoney for years and was one of the main organisers that day
An out and out Bigot
I was never at the sitdown protest ( working abroad ) but fair play to everyone involved at the time
They brought it on themselves by having no interest in marching unless there was viilagers there to provoke
The orange hall gets vandalised often ( usually paint which gives it a very Andy Whorhal ambience) which I don't agree with
But I suspect a Hibernian hall would be burnt to the ground if it was right in the middle of cullybackey
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: imtommygunn on July 12, 2017, 05:21:02 PM
You do have to ask... What joy would a sane rational person get out of marching through a place where they are not wanted?

Anyone who knows the demographic of dunloy and had an ounce of wit wouldn't have an orange parade near the place.

Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: dec on July 12, 2017, 05:23:20 PM
Are Halloween bonfires still a thing? In 70s/80s we would have a bonfire rather than dressing up in costumes or doing trick or treat.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Tony Baloney on July 12, 2017, 05:24:10 PM
I'm sure a few Dunloy builders would offer to relocate it to Clough or Ballymoney where the Orangemen would feel more welcome.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Minder on July 12, 2017, 05:26:56 PM
You do have to ask... What joy would a sane rational person get out of marching through a place where they are not wanted?

Anyone who knows the demographic of dunloy and had an ounce of wit wouldn't have an orange parade near the place.


I think the demographic of Dunloy is exactly why it was there, just to try and rub their noses in it
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: armaghniac on July 12, 2017, 05:28:56 PM

Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: imtommygunn on July 12, 2017, 05:40:05 PM
You do have to ask... What joy would a sane rational person get out of marching through a place where they are not wanted?

Anyone who knows the demographic of dunloy and had an ounce of wit wouldn't have an orange parade near the place.


I think the demographic of Dunloy is exactly why it was there, just to try and rub their noses in it

Yeah hence the ounce of wit comment...

Signing a letter no surrender a classy way to get your point across too.

Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: seafoid on July 12, 2017, 06:57:50 PM
Where would loyalists get GAA jerseys to burn on bonfires ?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: armaghniac on July 12, 2017, 06:59:51 PM
Where would loyalists get GAA jerseys to burn on bonfires ?

clotheslines?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Rois on July 12, 2017, 07:17:59 PM
Where would loyalists get GAA jerseys to burn on bonfires ?
Funny you ask, I went to O'Neills in West Belfast before 5pm this eve time get something and they were closing early! Every other shop in the Kennedy Centre was open. Maybe they stayed open late last night for an 11th night rush.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Hereiam on July 12, 2017, 07:28:06 PM
Twelfth of July Orange Order Marches/Demonstrations: A History of Violence

The Orange community is the inheritor of a tradition and a set of religious and cultural sensibilities that purport to come from the period of Britain’s Glorious Revolution, the 1688-90 Williamite Revolution when the last Stuart, James II, was ousted and the Protestant Settlement secured.

As the defenders of the Crown and the faith, then, they are truly the original unionists. But their unionism, passed down to them in tradition and lore as it is, is the unionism of a very different time. To begin with, other than its name, Orangism has no connection to William III – that is “William of Orange” – and the 1690 Battle of the Boyne, whatsoever.

What is least known among its brethren is that their organisation is quintessentially Hanoverian in origin, dating to no earlier than about 1795. Proto-Orange gangs emerged within the context of rural agitation in the north of Ireland, such as the Peep o' Day Boys and the Orange Boys. After the Battle of Diamond in Loughall, Co Armagh, the Orange Order was founded, which attempted to unite all brands of Protestantism by stressing the common interests of all Protestants.

By 1798 these groups had largely consolidated over Ireland and with some moneyed and aristocratic support, the first Grand Orange Lodge was convened on Dawson Street, Dublin – not Belfast, Armagh or Derry – on 9 April of that year. Just over a month later the agitation in Ireland reached its climax with the 1798 Rebellion, a largely Protestant led republican revolt against British rule in Ireland. In the aftermath of the crushing of the rebellion the Orange Order and Orange popular sentiment became the main force of unionism on the island of Ireland.

All of this makes the Orange Order unionist in a modern sense; defence of the Crown and the union of parliaments, which included Ireland as a consequence of the ’98 Rebellion in 1801. But, alas, this history is neither the tradition nor the lore of modern Orangism. As the name suggests, the Loyalist Orange Order puts more stock in the myths of its connection to King William III of Orange than it does in its more prosaic and rustic beginnings.

Orange mythology or lore – more imaginative folktale than history – rests on the idea of British divine election and exceptionalism, stemming from the Henrician, Elizabethan, Calvinist, and Jacobian Protestant reformations – plural.

With the development of the political ideologies of the modern nation state William III, who cements the Protestant succession in England, is seen as a saviour – a Protestant messiah who finally banishes the evils of Catholicism from Britain. Of course, as a nation-building myth of a colonial-settler Protestant community surrounded by 'violent' Irish Catholics, none of this is true. William of Orange’s first action as the invitee to the throne of England was to put paid to the supercilious belief that God has protected 'this Sceptred Isle' from invasion by a foreign army since the 1066 Norman Conquest. William arrived with a fleet twice the size of the Spanish Armada and invaded England with a joint Dutch and Danish army in what amounted to an English coup d’état.

Other than being all about England, the real context of this was the fear across the whole of Europe of French expansionism under Louis XIV. In this context it wasn’t even about Protestantism, but about absolutism and imperialism. So afraid was Pope Innocent XI of the French that he funded William’s Glorious Revolution.

More to the point, the England into which William and Mary – who, as the daughter of James II, was the actual invitee to the throne – arrived was not yet in union with either Scotland or Ireland and would not be for the rest of either of their lives. Thus the golden age of Orange loyalism is a loyalty only to the Crown – a unionism that cherishes in its most sacred lore the 1603 Union of the Crowns and not necessarily the later unions of the parliaments.

After this year's June elections, following Brexit, the Tories, who were left nine seats short of a majority in parliament by the election, announced a partnership deal with Northern Ireland’s Democratic Unionist Party (DUP), which controls 10 seats. Rather than a coalition government, in which the smaller party would get positions in Theresa May’s cabinet, the deal is a loose 'confidence and supply' arrangement under which the DUP has agreed to support the Conservatives on key votes allowing them to stay in power. In this case, the DUP has agreed to support May on legislation related to Britain’s negotiations on leaving the European Union. In exchange for the DUP’s support, May agreed to an additional $1.3 billion in funding for Northern Ireland. The DUP favours maintaining strong ties to the UK. While it has virtually no support outside Northern Ireland, where it’s narrowly the largest party, it does compete for seats in the UK Parliament, where it would normally have relatively little influence. While it has moderated its positions since the days when it was led by founder, Protestant activist, and hard-line anti-Catholic preacher Ian Paisley, it’s still a controversial partner for the prime minister.

The Orange Order is symbolic of an age of Orange rule that did not treat their fellow countrymen in a kind manner. Belfast, The City Hall and the annual parades (when Nationalists were brushed off their own streets by the Order controlled RUC to allow the parades to pass) are reminders of a time of the great and powerful 'Orange North' when every seat in parliament including the Prime Minister of the north of Ireland was a member of the Order and no cog moved within the machine unless the Grand Masters said otherwise.

In those days it was Protestant/Catholic but now the population is so diverse and multicultural that these ideals are lost to all but the Order and as with all wielders of power they will not let go without a fight to the death.

They can no longer do as they please, where they please because this is not the past, it is the present. It is not culture (as they claim) they fear losing, rather that once the flag is down and the parades are re-routed permanently that is the end; the once great Orange state will be filed away to the annals of history, but as long as they can walk the highways, their sense of superiority and control (even if self-delusional) will stay intact.

'The Orange State still lives… we still have power brothers!'

The 12th July Orange Order demonstrations take place at around 18 venues across the north of Ireland commemorating Prince William of Orange’s 1690 Battle of the Boyne victory over Catholic King James II. It is expected that over 500,000 Orangemen will parade at up to 18 venues across the north of Ireland with a major security operation in place across north Belfast.

Most Orange lodges hold parades from their Orange halls to a local church. The 12th July marches are seen by many as anti-Catholic, provocative and triumphalist.

The Orange Order demonstrations have always been controversial in the north of Ireland. Catholics complain that the protests are intimidating, triumphalist and anti-Catholic, where the Protestant Orangemen have always claimed their marches are moderate and have tried to rebrand the event over the past couple of years. Yet Catholics have to lock themselves in their homes or flee across the border in fear of their family’s safety.

It is expected that in Belfast up to 250,000 people will join parades and marches across the city for the annual Orange Order parade. The 12th July is a bank holiday in the north of Ireland and is the annual high point of the Loyal Order’s parading calendar.

Violence at Orange Order Marches:

1796 – The Orange Order hold its first ‘Twelfth of July’ demonstration, commemorating the Battle of Aughrim.

1813 – The first recorded “Twelfth of July” sectarian riots erupt in Belfast.

1849 – As many as 20 Catholics are killed by soldiers during an Orange Parade at Dolly’s Brae, near Castlewellan, Co Down.

1935 – Violence in Belfast lasting two months commences on this date; eleven people are killed. After an Orange Order parade decided to return to the city centre through a Catholic area instead of its usual route; the resulting violence left nine people dead. Over 2,000 Catholics were forced to leave their homes across Northern Ireland.

1995 – Violent protests spread across the north of Ireland when police block an Orange Order parade near Portadown, an Orange heartland. Police back down after four nights of Protestant riots across the north of Ireland and the parade passes through Portadown’s main Catholic district. This sparked off Catholic riots and IRA gun attacks.

1998 – The three Quinn brothers, Richard, 11, Mark, 10, and Jason 9, are burned to death by a Loyalist firebomb in Ballymoney, 40 miles northwest of Belfast. In the aftermath of the attack, the Drumcree protest was scaled down but was maintained unbroken until the following July.

2000 – Huge barriers separated nationalists and Orange Order protestors. Two people were murdered and more than 20 RUC officers were injured. A Loyalist suspected of being linked to the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF) was shot dead at a 11th Night Bonfire in Larne, Co Antrim and a man was stabbed to death in Coleraine, Co Derry. Another man was stabbed and critically injured in east Belfast.

2005 – Police were attacked with blast and petrol bombs during rioting in the Ardoyne area of Belfast, following an Orange Order parade. Eighty police officers were injured and several people were arrested.

2009 – A Catholic priest was assaulted by a rioter during violence on the streets of north Belfast on Friday night. Holy Cross parish priest Fr Gary Donegan condemned those responsible for the disorder which flared during the Orange Order’s Tour of the North parade. The Fermanagh-born priest was assaulted by a young rioter as he tried to restore peace to the streets around Ardoyne.

2012 – North Belfast riots: there was rioting in the Ardoyne area of Belfast following the Orange Order’s Twelfth marches. Up to 20 PSNI officers were injured and a number of shots were fired by republicans.

2013 – 12-17 July: Rioting by loyalists occurred across Belfast and across the north of Ireland after an Orange Order parade was prevented by the PSNI from passing the nationalist Ardoyne shop-fronts in north Belfast during The Twelfth celebrations, in accordance with a Parades Commission ruling. During which loyalists attacked with petrol bombs, blast bombs and even reportedly ceremonial swords. There were also at times clashes between loyalist and nationalist crowds. 71 PSNI officers including 3 mutual aid officers from Britain were injured in the days of rioting, and during disorder on 12 July DUP MP Nigel Dodds was injured after he was knocked unconscious by a brick thrown by loyalists. 62 people involved in the rioting were arrested across the north of Ireland.

2014 – Twelfth of July Orange Order marches in north Belfast pass off peacefully.

2015 – Three lodges want to return along a stretch of the Crumlin Road that separates unionist and nationalist communities in north Belfast.

2016 – ‘It’s about the Battle not the Bottle’ campaign: The Orange Order urged those taking part in the Twelfth celebrations not to overindulge in alcohol with their new awareness campaign. The initiative, was supported by the PSNI and public health bodies, saw thousands of leaflets sent out to Orange Orders members and bandsmen ahead of the big day, alongside a campaign on social media. Members of the group previously denied they were fighting a losing battle against the bottle in Belfast, where drunken scenes have become as much a part of the day as bands and lodges. The organization’s attempt to make the Twelfth more inclusive by branding it “Orangefest” was widely derided, with critics calling it “vodka and Orangefest”.

Let’s hope this year passes peacefully.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Dougal Maguire on July 12, 2017, 08:13:56 PM
This is old but it's beautiful. (Apologies if it's already been posted) https://youtu.be/HAVYZLUxaEw
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: OgraAnDun on July 12, 2017, 08:35:47 PM
Where would loyalists get GAA jerseys to burn on bonfires ?

clotheslines?

I saw a picture on Facebook this morning of a bonfire (I don't think one from this year) which must have had the flag of each county in Ireland on it. To think someone went to the bother and expense of ordering 32 different flags just to burn them. Longford got pride of place at the top along with a few tricolours if anyone is interested.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 12, 2017, 08:40:41 PM
Where would loyalists get GAA jerseys to burn on bonfires ?

clotheslines?

I saw a picture on Facebook this morning of a bonfire (I don't think one from this year) which must have had the flag of each county in Ireland on it. To think someone went to the bother and expense of ordering 32 different flags just to burn them. Longford got pride of place at the top along with a few tricolours if anyone is interested.

I'd have put the Longford flag on top too!
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: hardstation on July 12, 2017, 08:50:31 PM
Where would loyalists get GAA jerseys to burn on bonfires ?

clotheslines?

I saw a picture on Facebook this morning of a bonfire (I don't think one from this year) which must have had the flag of each county in Ireland on it. To think someone went to the bother and expense of ordering 32 different flags just to burn them. Longford got pride of place at the top along with a few tricolours if anyone is interested.

I'd have put the Longford flag on top too!
Yip, maybe we've been underestimating these people.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on July 12, 2017, 08:53:40 PM
Mustve been in Derry. Amount o times them bastids have bate us ffs :P ;D
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: OgraAnDun on July 12, 2017, 08:55:46 PM
Mustve been in Derry. Amount o times them bastids have bate us ffs :P ;D

Probably Ruth Dudley Edward's crowd over in Monaghan after last year's loss.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Orior on July 12, 2017, 09:31:11 PM

Violence at Orange Order Marches:

1796 – The Orange Order hold its first ‘Twelfth of July’ demonstration, commemorating the Battle of Aughrim.

1813 – The first recorded “Twelfth of July” sectarian riots erupt in Belfast.

1849 – As many as 20 Catholics are killed by soldiers during an Orange Parade at Dolly’s Brae, near Castlewellan, Co Down.

1935 – Violence in Belfast lasting two months commences on this date; eleven people are killed. After an Orange Order parade decided to return to the city centre through a Catholic area instead of its usual route; the resulting violence left nine people dead. Over 2,000 Catholics were forced to leave their homes across Northern Ireland.


You've left out a lot of violence at Orange Parades in the 18th and 19th centuries.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: seafoid on July 12, 2017, 09:54:03 PM
I hope everyone had a great 12th of July . Time to put the bowler hats away now
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: laoislad on July 12, 2017, 10:00:04 PM
Where would loyalists get GAA jerseys to burn on bonfires ?

clotheslines?

I saw a picture on Facebook this morning of a bonfire (I don't think one from this year) which must have had the flag of each county in Ireland on it. To think someone went to the bother and expense of ordering 32 different flags just to burn them. Longford got pride of place at the top along with a few tricolours if anyone is interested.
Doubt they burnt a Laois flag with us being the Queens County. 
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: seafoid on July 12, 2017, 10:03:45 PM
Where would loyalists get GAA jerseys to burn on bonfires ?

clotheslines?

I saw a picture on Facebook this morning of a bonfire (I don't think one from this year) which must have had the flag of each county in Ireland on it. To think someone went to the bother and expense of ordering 32 different flags just to burn them. Longford got pride of place at the top along with a few tricolours if anyone is interested.
Doubt they burnt a Laois flag with us being the Queens County.
The Queen is a Fenian.
Wasn't she caught speaking Irish in Dublin ?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 12, 2017, 10:13:07 PM
Spent the 12th playing golf with 15 prods in Castleblaney... none of them were at the bonies
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: BennyCake on July 12, 2017, 10:19:54 PM
I hope everyone had a great 12th of July . Time to put the bowler hats away now

Hang on there. Sure there's the sham fight to come tomorrow...And about 4000 marches the rest of the year. Dust hardly gets time to settle on the old bowler.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: clonadmad on July 12, 2017, 10:26:23 PM
Burn your local Indian

http://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2017/07/12/news/new-indian-restaurant-targeted-by-arsonists-just-hours-after-opening-1081924/
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: hardstation on July 12, 2017, 10:34:16 PM
Burn your local Indian

http://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2017/07/12/news/new-indian-restaurant-targeted-by-arsonists-just-hours-after-opening-1081924/
I'll have a fiver on a rival local Indian.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: clonadmad on July 12, 2017, 11:11:37 PM
Burn our flags,Take our water

https://twitter.com/ladfleg/status/885099562838392833
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: PMG1 on July 12, 2017, 11:40:48 PM
Spent the 12th on  the 10th floor of the city hospital with a great view of the sandy row / donegal road area. Great entertainment as there was a great 20 minute riot between 2 local factions outside the n.i. Rangers supporters club. They half killed each other with bottles and bricks flying, unconscious bodies lying about, people kicked on the ground while out cold, ambulances not being allowed access. It had to be seen to be believed but of course you won't hear about it on the news, you will see the wee children and their wee flags.  The 10th floor is for people having or recovering from bone marrow transplants, with a specially filtered air system.  The staff were extremely worried last night as the stench of the fumes from the bonfires was getting into the system and patients (incl my wife) were suffering from the fumes.  Hospital toilets were chock-a-block all day with drunken fools queing up to use them and security staff too afraid to stop them. But sure it's all good as long as the wee Billy's enjoyed their culture day.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Wildweasel74 on July 12, 2017, 11:47:05 PM
They marched through Kilrea today, the town 80% catholic, of course Mr bright didn't bother to check where the parades where at and it took 45 mins and a 10mile diversion to get to my house in the town, f**king crazy stuff. Now its a  tolerate town, never any hassle outside of the John Dallat thing, which did happen.  but this (3000+) marching when hardly any are from the town or anywhere f**king near it for that matter is just to annoy the locals. No other reason.

PS its f**king worked
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: sid waddell on July 12, 2017, 11:54:41 PM
Thoroughly enjoyable highlights presentation on BBC WS there.

Presenter Helen Mark did a lovely job and I could just see her fitting in perfectly as presenter of something like the Balmoral festival - it's an absolute disgrace that it's not covered live anymore.

Orangemen are often unfairly characterised as dour and humourless, so it was interesting and perhaps surprising to see that all the banners on show had "LOL" written on them. They've certainly also showed that they are up to date with the age of social media too.

I see "KAT" was written on a lot of the bonfires yesterday and I can only agree with that sentiment - as a Dub, I think Kildare are t**sers too.

Surely there's obvious sponsorship tie in for Club Orange with the Twelfth. Or would that be corporatising things too much?

What a pity the Linfield-Celtic match couldn't have gone ahead tonight.

It would have been the perfect ending to a wonderful family day out.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 12, 2017, 11:57:47 PM
Thoroughly enjoyable highlights presentation on BBC WS there.

Presenter Helen Mark did a lovely job and I could just see her fitting in perfectly as presenter of something like the Balmoral festival - it's an absolute disgrace that it's not covered live anymore.

Orangemen are often unfairly characterised as dour and humourless, so it was interesting and perhaps surprising to see that all the banners on show had "LOL" written on them. They've certainly also showed that they are up to date with the age of social media too.

I see "KAT" was written on a lot of the bonfires yesterday and I can only agree with that sentiment - as a Dub, I think Kildare are t**sers too.

Surely there's obvious sponsorship tie in for Club Orange with the Twelfth. Or would that be corporatising things too much?

What a pity the Linfield-Celtic match couldn't have gone ahead tonight.

It would have been the perfect ending to a wonderful family day out.

I thought KAT meant the bonfires all came from Mooncoin.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: sid waddell on July 13, 2017, 12:05:31 AM
Thoroughly enjoyable highlights presentation on BBC WS there.

Presenter Helen Mark did a lovely job and I could just see her fitting in perfectly as presenter of something like the Balmoral festival - it's an absolute disgrace that it's not covered live anymore.

Orangemen are often unfairly characterised as dour and humourless, so it was interesting and perhaps surprising to see that all the banners on show had "LOL" written on them. They've certainly also showed that they are up to date with the age of social media too.

I see "KAT" was written on a lot of the bonfires yesterday and I can only agree with that sentiment - as a Dub, I think Kildare are t**sers too.

Surely there's obvious sponsorship tie in for Club Orange with the Twelfth. Or would that be corporatising things too much?

What a pity the Linfield-Celtic match couldn't have gone ahead tonight.

It would have been the perfect ending to a wonderful family day out.

I thought KAT meant the bonfires all came from Mooncoin.

Kilkenny is perhaps the most anglicised part of the south so I doubt they'd have pissed all over the bonfires the way they pissed on the powder in 1798.

It was lovely to see the young kids and toddlers all dressed up for the occasion.

Just think in 20 years' time, those youngsters will be the ones throwing bricks and getting water cannoned.

As they say, mol an oige agus tiocfaidh siad.

Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Hardy on July 13, 2017, 12:26:23 AM
Thoroughly enjoyable highlights presentation on BBC WS there.

Presenter Helen Mark did a lovely job and I could just see her fitting in perfectly as presenter of something like the Balmoral festival - it's an absolute disgrace that it's not covered live anymore.

Orangemen are often unfairly characterised as dour and humourless, so it was interesting and perhaps surprising to see that all the banners on show had "LOL" written on them. They've certainly also showed that they are up to date with the age of social media too.

I see "KAT" was written on a lot of the bonfires yesterday and I can only agree with that sentiment - as a Dub, I think Kildare are t**sers too.

Surely there's obvious sponsorship tie in for Club Orange with the Twelfth. Or would that be corporatising things too much?

What a pity the Linfield-Celtic match couldn't have gone ahead tonight.

It would have been the perfect ending to a wonderful family day out.

I thought KAT meant the bonfires all came from Mooncoin.

Kilkenny is perhaps the most anglicised part of the south so I doubt they'd have pissed all over the bonfires the way they pissed on the powder in 1798.

It was lovely to see the young kids and toddlers all dressed up for the occasion.

Just think in 20 years' time, those youngsters will be the ones throwing bricks and getting water cannoned.

As they say, mol an oige agus tiocfaidh siad.



It's perpetually on the lips of the young parents of Sandy Row.

The future is in good hands.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: sid waddell on July 13, 2017, 12:38:44 AM
They marched through Kilrea today, the town 80% catholic, of course Mr bright didn't bother to check where the parades where at and it took 45 mins and a 10mile diversion to get to my house in the town, f**king crazy stuff. Now its a  tolerate town, never any hassle outside of the John Dallat thing, which did happen.  but this (3000+) marching when hardly any are from the town or anywhere f**king near it for that matter is just to annoy the locals. No other reason.

PS its f**king worked
As the legendary early 1990s indie band The Orangeheads sang, "It's a shame about Kilrea".
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 13, 2017, 09:23:41 AM
Thoroughly enjoyable highlights presentation on BBC WS there.

Presenter Helen Mark did a lovely job and I could just see her fitting in perfectly as presenter of something like the Balmoral festival - it's an absolute disgrace that it's not covered live anymore.

Orangemen are often unfairly characterised as dour and humourless, so it was interesting and perhaps surprising to see that all the banners on show had "LOL" written on them. They've certainly also showed that they are up to date with the age of social media too.

I see "KAT" was written on a lot of the bonfires yesterday and I can only agree with that sentiment - as a Dub, I think Kildare are t**sers too.

Surely there's obvious sponsorship tie in for Club Orange with the Twelfth. Or would that be corporatising things too much?

What a pity the Linfield-Celtic match couldn't have gone ahead tonight.

It would have been the perfect ending to a wonderful family day out.

I thought KAT meant the bonfires all came from Mooncoin.

Kilkenny is perhaps the most anglicised part of the south so I doubt they'd have pissed all over the bonfires the way they pissed on the powder in 1798.

Nah, the Jackeens are at least doubly more English than we are.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: johnneycool on July 13, 2017, 09:24:14 AM
Spent the 12th playing golf with 15 prods in Castleblaney... none of them were at the bonies

No local golf courses open?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 13, 2017, 09:30:11 AM
Spent the 12th playing golf with 15 prods in Castleblaney... none of them were at the bonies

No local golf courses open?

I wouldnt play golf (once or twice a year) so I wouldnt know to be honest, I's say the council courses would have been closed
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: ned on July 13, 2017, 10:20:16 AM
https://wingsoverscotland.com/towers-of-hate/
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Hardy on July 13, 2017, 10:47:24 AM
https://wingsoverscotland.com/towers-of-hate/

They are so flag-obsessed that some of them are burning their own flags! Presumably they are the ones who couldn't muster the effort to go look for flags of Ireland, Palestine, Poland, etc.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: OgraAnDun on July 13, 2017, 10:54:21 AM
https://wingsoverscotland.com/towers-of-hate/

They are so flag-obsessed that some of them are burning their own flags! Presumably they are the ones who couldn't muster the effort to go look for flags of Ireland, Palestine, Poland, etc.

They take those flags down before setting light to the thing.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Walter Cronc on July 13, 2017, 10:57:53 AM
https://wingsoverscotland.com/towers-of-hate/

Good to get a scottish perspective on it.

I've always wondered how the Apprentice Boys parade in Derry always passes off more peacefully than Orange parades.

Better communication? Are the Apprentice Boys a diet version of the Orange men?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: armaghniac on July 13, 2017, 11:11:05 AM
https://wingsoverscotland.com/towers-of-hate/

Good to get a scottish perspective on it.

I've always wondered how the Apprentice Boys parade in Derry always passes off more peacefully than Orange parades.

Better communication? Are the Apprentice Boys a diet version of the Orange men?

I think the communities in Derry have always had more communication than in Belfast.
But Derry illustrates the situation very well. The Apprentice Boys didn't really have the luxury of refusing to deal, and this puts the more pragmatic leaders to the fore. The residents know that in the 21st century that the Apprentice Boys are an anachronism, and no longer able to boss them around, so the deal was a reasonable one, so the parades begin to become more like Rossknowlagh and not appealing to coat trailers.

In Belfast, Portadown etc the Orangemen are still trying to show who is boss and the residents are intimidated by that.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 13, 2017, 11:49:14 AM
https://wingsoverscotland.com/towers-of-hate/

They are so flag-obsessed that some of them are burning their own flags! Presumably they are the ones who couldn't muster the effort to go look for flags of Ireland, Palestine, Poland, etc.

I thought that after seeing the comment about a bonfire with all 32 county flags of Ireland on it; effectively they were burning the flag of their home.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: north_antrim_hound on July 13, 2017, 12:04:04 PM
In fairness I don't see one flag of the Vatican state
I wonder is it because they don't know the Vatican is a separate country or are they conciesus of upsetting the catholic community
I heard Lichtenstein are have been on to the orange lodge inquiring as to why their flag has not been included in the celebrations
They feel that neutrality in the world wars and reluctance to conform with any confrontational ideology has worked against them in flag selection for these festivities
They are aware that even Longford have made it on to the " burn them all " list
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: north_antrim_hound on July 13, 2017, 12:16:27 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=efHCdKb5UWc

Micheal Caine knows these bonfire types
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Main Street on July 13, 2017, 01:28:34 PM
Some of those pallet constructions are impressive.

It's ironic that the probability factor of King Billy and his wife both being bisexual, is about a 90% certainty.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: BennyCake on July 13, 2017, 01:39:32 PM
Some of those pallet constructions are impressive.

It's ironic that the probability factor of King Billy and his wife both being bisexual, is about a 90% certainty.

Well, he was Dutch. Anything goes in Holland. Even back then.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Orior on July 13, 2017, 01:43:14 PM
Some of those pallet constructions are impressive.

It's ironic that the probability factor of King Billy and his wife both being bisexual, is about a 90% certainty.

Exsqueeze me? Baking powder?

A well constructed bonfire is a sign that the builders are gay? lol
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: seafoid on July 13, 2017, 01:56:32 PM
Some of those pallet constructions are impressive.

It's ironic that the probability factor of King Billy and his wife both being bisexual, is about a 90% certainty.

Well, he was Dutch. Anything goes in Holland. Even back then.
He wasn't even British.
The whole thing is ludicrous
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: armaghniac on July 13, 2017, 02:11:07 PM
In fairness I don't see one flag of the Vatican state
I wonder is it because they don't know the Vatican is a separate country or are they conciesus of upsetting the catholic community
I heard Lichtenstein are have been on to the orange lodge inquiring as to why their flag has not been included in the celebrations
They feel that neutrality in the world wars and reluctance to conform with any confrontational ideology has worked against them in flag selection for these festivities
They are aware that even Longford have made it on to the " burn them all " list

Sure I've heard Orange bands playing the tune of the Liechtenstein anthem.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Main Street on July 13, 2017, 02:25:18 PM
Some of those pallet constructions are impressive.

It's ironic that the probability factor of King Billy and his wife both being bisexual, is about a 90% certainty.

Well, he was Dutch. Anything goes in Holland. Even back then.
Now I know where the name "Billy Boys" originates.
Ulster says no to sodomy, except our Billy.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: BennyCake on July 13, 2017, 10:59:38 PM
Some of those pallet constructions are impressive.

It's ironic that the probability factor of King Billy and his wife both being bisexual, is about a 90% certainty.

Well, he was Dutch. Anything goes in Holland. Even back then.
He wasn't even British.
The whole thing is ludicrous

It sure is.

The pope even gave Billy his blessing. You couldn't make it up.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: clonadmad on July 13, 2017, 11:51:53 PM
Financed by the Pope and a Mass of celebration said in his honour after his victory in Meath
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: BennyCake on July 14, 2017, 12:12:06 AM
Billy was financed by the Jews in Amsterdam. When he beat James, he brought the Jews into Britain. Up until then they were banned. When they got in, they set up the Bank of England.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: armaghniac on July 14, 2017, 12:47:06 AM
Billy was financed by the Jews in Amsterdam. When he beat James, he brought the Jews into Britain. Up until then they were banned. When they got in, they set up the Bank of England.

Well at least the Bank of England is one institution whose products are widely welcomed by all parts of the community.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: stew on July 14, 2017, 05:52:42 AM
Billy was financed by the Jews in Amsterdam. When he beat James, he brought the Jews into Britain. Up until then they were banned. When they got in, they set up the Bank of England.

Well at least the Bank of England is one institution whose products are widely welcomed by all parts of the community.

Not really, Muslim women are unwelcome apparently.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: maddog on July 14, 2017, 10:39:58 AM
Billy was financed by the Jews in Amsterdam. When he beat James, he brought the Jews into Britain. Up until then they were banned. When they got in, they set up the Bank of England.

There must have been Jews in England for a heap of them to get killed in York in 1190
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: BennyCake on July 14, 2017, 10:42:33 AM
Billy was financed by the Jews in Amsterdam. When he beat James, he brought the Jews into Britain. Up until then they were banned. When they got in, they set up the Bank of England.

There must have been Jews in England for a heap of them to get killed in York in 1190

They were obviously thrown out pre-1690.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: seafoid on July 14, 2017, 11:01:34 AM
Billy was financed by the Jews in Amsterdam. When he beat James, he brought the Jews into Britain. Up until then they were banned. When they got in, they set up the Bank of England.

There must have been Jews in England for a heap of them to get killed in York in 1190

They were obviously thrown out pre-1690.
They caused the Black death so they were kicked out. They authorities couldn't use their default option of pinning it on women.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 14, 2017, 11:13:13 AM
Billy was financed by the Jews in Amsterdam. When he beat James, he brought the Jews into Britain. Up until then they were banned. When they got in, they set up the Bank of England.

Is that why loyalists fly the flag of Israel?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: The Subbie on July 14, 2017, 11:29:59 AM
Billy was financed by the Jews in Amsterdam. When he beat James, he brought the Jews into Britain. Up until then they were banned. When they got in, they set up the Bank of England.

Is that why loyalists fly the flag of Israel?

No.
If themmuns are gonny fly the PLO fled we are gonny fly the Israeli fleg would be the rationale behind that particular move
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 14, 2017, 11:34:39 AM
Billy was financed by the Jews in Amsterdam. When he beat James, he brought the Jews into Britain. Up until then they were banned. When they got in, they set up the Bank of England.

Is that why loyalists fly the flag of Israel?

No.
If themmuns are gonny fly the PLO fled we are gonny fly the Israeli fleg would be the rationale behind that particular move

I was being sarcastic but it does show how juvenile they are. If republicans started flying a white flag with a black circle, they'd fly a black flag with a white circle.

Actually, when you think of it it shows how insecure they are; being defined by what they claim not to be rather than what they are (or so they claim).
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 14, 2017, 11:38:27 AM
Billy was financed by the Jews in Amsterdam. When he beat James, he brought the Jews into Britain. Up until then they were banned. When they got in, they set up the Bank of England.




Disregarding the sickening grotesqueness of this sh1te for a moment, I suppose it would be pointless even trying to explain the irony to them...
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: north_antrim_hound on July 14, 2017, 11:40:49 AM
I think the people putting up these flags and the individuals and events celebrated  are not subjected to the research and scrutiny as on here
It's all about the bigotry bred into them from birth
The ones who have some sort of individual character and lateral thinking soon detach themselves from it and feel quite embarrassed with the whole thing
I would like to see some stats on what percentage of the prodestant community participate
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 14, 2017, 11:49:34 AM
I think the people putting up these flags and the individuals and events celebrated  are not subjected to the research and scrutiny as on here
It's all about the bigotry bred into them from birth
The ones who have some sort of individual character and lateral thinking soon detach themselves from it and feel quite embarrassed with the whole thing
I would like to see some stats on what percentage of the prodestant community participate

Agree wholeheartedly, I'm republican and engaged in (legal) republican activism and the vast majority are decent people but there are plenty of loons on the republican side too. Personally, I abhor the "protestants are bad" cr@p. There's good and bad everywhere.

I was at a Wolfe Tones concert a while back and there was a woman giving off stink about protestant this and orange that. I asked her what she was listening to and she said "some great f**kin rebel tunes" so, hoping for a slightly deeper response, I asked who the band were, she looked slightly puzzled and said the Wolfe Tones. I said aye, named after Wolfe Tone, the founder of modern Irish republicanism who was cut of the same protestant cloth as your mouthing off about. She just looked stunned.

Unfortunately, ignorance isn't a weakness of just one community.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: seafoid on July 14, 2017, 11:50:09 AM
Billy was financed by the Jews in Amsterdam. When he beat James, he brought the Jews into Britain. Up until then they were banned. When they got in, they set up the Bank of England.

Is that why loyalists fly the flag of Israel?
Israel is also chosen people, settler colonial, law and order, makey uppy , right wing and "f**k you" which appeals to loyalists.
If the playing field was Burma loyalists would be pro the generals.Re China they would be anti Tibet
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 14, 2017, 12:03:48 PM
Billy was financed by the Jews in Amsterdam. When he beat James, he brought the Jews into Britain. Up until then they were banned. When they got in, they set up the Bank of England.

Is that why loyalists fly the flag of Israel?
Israel is also chosen people, settler colonial, law and order, makey uppy , right wing and "f**k you" which appeals to loyalists.
If the playing field was Burma loyalists would be pro the generals.Re China they would be anti Tibet

Sure didn't they have links with Afrikaaner paramilitaries. They are another odd group of people. I've known a few and to a man they all claim not to be African but South African. Whilst they're correct in the latter, that's their nationality, but it also has a clue to the continent in the name of the country. Try explaining that South Africa is part of Africa to them though :-\.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: north_antrim_hound on July 14, 2017, 12:05:23 PM
Good point in the wolf tone thing and the fact the orange part of the tricolour they are burning is representative of them in 1798
I think they are burning the idea of nationalist and prodestant unity
There are some halfwits on the nationalist side for sure but not as big a chunk and certainly not as encouraged   
I mean what has the the political unionist parties said or done about the displays of complete misinformed racism displayed the past few days
Absolutely nothing, even at the expense of a few bigoted votes it would help in general
A maintained ignorance for the benefit of votes is top of the agenda
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 14, 2017, 12:17:53 PM
Good point in the wolf tone thing and the fact the orange part of the tricolour they are burning is representative of them in 1798
I think they are burning the idea of nationalist and prodestant unity
There are some halfwits on the nationalist side for sure but not as big a chunk and certainly not as encouraged   
I mean what has the the political unionist parties said or done about the displays of complete misinformed racism displayed the past few days
Absolutely nothing, even at the expense of a few bigoted votes it would help in general
A maintained ignorance for the benefit of votes is top of the agenda

Definitely. You'd be slung out on your ear by the main nationalist/republican organisations if you were engaged in or seen to be cosying up to racism.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: yellowcard on July 14, 2017, 12:21:30 PM
Good point in the wolf tone thing and the fact the orange part of the tricolour they are burning is representative of them in 1798
I think they are burning the idea of nationalist and prodestant unity
There are some halfwits on the nationalist side for sure but not as big a chunk and certainly not as encouraged   
I mean what has the the political unionist parties said or done about the displays of complete misinformed racism displayed the past few days
Absolutely nothing, even at the expense of a few bigoted votes it would help in general
A maintained ignorance for the benefit of votes is top of the agenda

Correct. Maybe I'm wrong but I never heard one Unionist politician condemn the serial burning of the tricolour, effigies, posters and displaying of racist sectarian banners at these 12th celebrations. They went to ground for a week.

Their hypocrisy knows no bounds and if they actually showed some leadership and stood up together to condemn this behaviour it would go some way to eradicating it. But they don't want it, fear and division suits best. 
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: seafoid on July 14, 2017, 12:44:18 PM
Billy was financed by the Jews in Amsterdam. When he beat James, he brought the Jews into Britain. Up until then they were banned. When they got in, they set up the Bank of England.

Is that why loyalists fly the flag of Israel?
Israel is also chosen people, settler colonial, law and order, makey uppy , right wing and "f**k you" which appeals to loyalists.
If the playing field was Burma loyalists would be pro the generals.Re China they would be anti Tibet

Sure didn't they have links with Afrikaaner paramilitaries. They are another odd group of people. I've known a few and to a man they all claim not to be African but South African. Whilst they're correct in the latter, that's their nationality, but it also has a clue to the continent in the name of the country. Try explaining that South Africa is part of Africa to them though :-\.
In the 70s Israel supplied arms to the junta in Argentina that murdered 800 Jews. You couldn't make it up
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 14, 2017, 02:07:03 PM
Billy was financed by the Jews in Amsterdam. When he beat James, he brought the Jews into Britain. Up until then they were banned. When they got in, they set up the Bank of England.

Is that why loyalists fly the flag of Israel?
Israel is also chosen people, settler colonial, law and order, makey uppy , right wing and "f**k you" which appeals to loyalists.
If the playing field was Burma loyalists would be pro the generals.Re China they would be anti Tibet

Sure didn't they have links with Afrikaaner paramilitaries. They are another odd group of people. I've known a few and to a man they all claim not to be African but South African. Whilst they're correct in the latter, that's their nationality, but it also has a clue to the continent in the name of the country. Try explaining that South Africa is part of Africa to them though :-\.
In the 70s Israel supplied arms to the junta in Argentina that murdered 800 Jews. You couldn't make it up

World politics is full of that. Sure the Americans trained and equipped bin Laden (and I'd say it will take a long long time to get to the bottom of the cesspit behind Daesh).
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: HiMucker on July 14, 2017, 02:13:50 PM
Its a complete disgrace, but maybe this is the start of the dampners being put on the bonfire, if this gains any traction.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-40607144
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on July 14, 2017, 02:33:51 PM
Its a complete disgrace, but maybe this is the start of the dampners being put on the bonfire, if this gains any traction.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-40607144

It's about time. Thankfully it wasn't as a result of a Grenfell Tower situation. These big bonfires have gone unchallenged for far too long. If you want a big f**k off bonfire go an build it in the middle of nowhere where it doesn't impact anyone (tyres and all that aside). No one is stopping them doing that. But when it encroaches onto public property or private residences such as this and the taxpayer is left to pick up the tab then enough is enough. However godforbid that anyone should speak out about this as you are instantly an oppressor of the Protestant people and denying them their culture, which btw is not culture in any man or womans book. Time is horsesh1t was called out for what it is.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: BennyCake on July 14, 2017, 03:03:06 PM
Billy was financed by the Jews in Amsterdam. When he beat James, he brought the Jews into Britain. Up until then they were banned. When they got in, they set up the Bank of England.

Is that why loyalists fly the flag of Israel?
Israel is also chosen people, settler colonial, law and order, makey uppy , right wing and "f**k you" which appeals to loyalists.
If the playing field was Burma loyalists would be pro the generals.Re China they would be anti Tibet

Sure didn't they have links with Afrikaaner paramilitaries. They are another odd group of people. I've known a few and to a man they all claim not to be African but South African. Whilst they're correct in the latter, that's their nationality, but it also has a clue to the continent in the name of the country. Try explaining that South Africa is part of Africa to them though :-\.
In the 70s Israel supplied arms to the junta in Argentina that murdered 800 Jews. You couldn't make it up

World politics is full of that. Sure the Americans trained and equipped bin Laden (and I'd say it will take a long long time to get to the bottom of the cesspit behind Daesh).

Going down another road here, but the US pulled out of the Moscow Olympics in protest to Russia invading Afghanistan. The same country they blew the shit out of a few years later. And continue to. Again, you couldn't make it up.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 14, 2017, 03:10:35 PM
Billy was financed by the Jews in Amsterdam. When he beat James, he brought the Jews into Britain. Up until then they were banned. When they got in, they set up the Bank of England.

Is that why loyalists fly the flag of Israel?
Israel is also chosen people, settler colonial, law and order, makey uppy , right wing and "f**k you" which appeals to loyalists.
If the playing field was Burma loyalists would be pro the generals.Re China they would be anti Tibet

Sure didn't they have links with Afrikaaner paramilitaries. They are another odd group of people. I've known a few and to a man they all claim not to be African but South African. Whilst they're correct in the latter, that's their nationality, but it also has a clue to the continent in the name of the country. Try explaining that South Africa is part of Africa to them though :-\.
In the 70s Israel supplied arms to the junta in Argentina that murdered 800 Jews. You couldn't make it up

World politics is full of that. Sure the Americans trained and equipped bin Laden (and I'd say it will take a long long time to get to the bottom of the cesspit behind Daesh).

Going down another road here, but the US pulled out of the Moscow Olympics in protest to Russia invading Afghanistan. The same country they blew the shit out of a few years later. And continue to. Again, you couldn't make it up.

Would this be the same America who blew Iraq to sh1te, hanged its leader and left a huge power vacuum that was only ever going to be filled by a group like Daesh?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: seafoid on July 14, 2017, 03:27:35 PM
Its a complete disgrace, but maybe this is the start of the dampners being put on the bonfire, if this gains any traction.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-40607144

It's about time. Thankfully it wasn't as a result of a Grenfell Tower situation. These big bonfires have gone unchallenged for far too long. If you want a big f**k off bonfire go an build it in the middle of nowhere where it doesn't impact anyone (tyres and all that aside). No one is stopping them doing that. But when it encroaches onto public property or private residences such as this and the taxpayer is left to pick up the tab then enough is enough. However godforbid that anyone should speak out about this as you are instantly an oppressor of the Protestant people and denying them their culture, which btw is not culture in any man or womans book. Time is horsesh1t was called out for what it is.
Those areas are mostly west of the Bann which is full of Fenians
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Owen Brannigan on July 15, 2017, 02:15:56 PM
A good article from the editor of the Newsletter:

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/opinion/ben-lowry-bonfires-can-be-a-fine-spectacle-but-unionists-should-have-spoken-out-about-the-risks-1-8057649 (http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/opinion/ben-lowry-bonfires-can-be-a-fine-spectacle-but-unionists-should-have-spoken-out-about-the-risks-1-8057649)
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: red hander on July 15, 2017, 02:47:52 PM
A good article from the editor of the Newsletter:

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/opinion/ben-lowry-bonfires-can-be-a-fine-spectacle-but-unionists-should-have-spoken-out-about-the-risks-1-8057649 (http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/opinion/ben-lowry-bonfires-can-be-a-fine-spectacle-but-unionists-should-have-spoken-out-about-the-risks-1-8057649)

He's the deputy editor, don't promote the odious little twat any higher above his current station. A posh north Down bigot who wouldn't be seen dead in Sandy Row any other day of the year. Don't be fooled by the faux moderate tone, it is merely an attempt to deflect from the atrocious online poll that rag ran on Thursday (no doubt driven by Lowry) which asked the question: Was Arlene Foster right to condemn the placing of an effigy of Martin McGuinness on an Eleventh Night bonfire?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: 6th sam on July 15, 2017, 03:10:24 PM
A good article from the editor of the Newsletter:

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/opinion/ben-lowry-bonfires-can-be-a-fine-spectacle-but-unionists-should-have-spoken-out-about-the-risks-1-8057649 (http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/opinion/ben-lowry-bonfires-can-be-a-fine-spectacle-but-unionists-should-have-spoken-out-about-the-risks-1-8057649)

It's far from a "good article"
It mainly focuses on health and safety.
Politicians seem to be focussing on H&S also, and whereas safety is obviouly a serious issue, it's only part of the problem.
The "culture" of
Orangeism and it's sideshows , is the core problem.
It's pathological , aggressive, and unneighbourly to want to celebrate widely and frequently, the perceived victory of Protestantism over Catholicism/irishness from over 300 years ago. It stinks of domination tied up in sectarianism and anti-Irish racism. It should be unacceptable in any civilised democracy.
I would strongly promote protecting and respecting positive British culture, including Ulster Scots heritage and music, but it's unacceptable to try to Normalise the annual celebrating beating the neighbours , Which is by its very nature negative and aggressive. The civil and religious liberty argument baffles me....is there much evidence that protestants have been prevented from practicing their religion in recent years. Given that Protestantism is Christian , surely the annual hatred associated with the marching season , is in total conflict to those Christian values?
 I watched some of the linfield v Celtic match yesterday and then read a BBC ( state broadcaster) report which minimised the hatred surrounding the fixture. Booing from start to finish, with special emphasis on the likes of Scott Sinclair (black), Johnny Hayes ( Irish) . The reference to Scott Sinclair on the bonfire last week, perhaps reminds us of the problem caused by apologists here. I remember Such references to bananas being beyond the pale 40 years ago in English football , yet the response here to such racism , and indeed the  throwing of buckfast bottles at players , was muted . In fact it was suggested  that such behaviour also occurs in the Manchester derby.
The vast majority of the Protestant/unionist population in the north are appalled by this nonsense but are often afraid to speak out. They continue to vote  for unionist politicians however, as understandably they  value their Britishness and sense of identity.
We need real leaders on both sides , backed by Dublin and London , to challenge this  aggressive summer nonsense once and for all, and both legislate and enforce to try and bring us into line with most civilised societies.
And also spare us the false narrative that it's 50:50. Any similar behaviour on the "Irish side" should be met with equal vigour, but let's be honest most of the nonsense is coming from one direction. Portraying it as "6 of one, half a dozen of the other" is a fallacy . Whilst republicans should quite rightly be expected to reflect on their contribution to conflict and particularly the impact of the IRA campaign on their unionist neighbours, unionists must admit that the annual hatred associated with the marching season is unacceptable, and they must be pro-active in changing all negative aspects of this culture.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: armaghniac on July 15, 2017, 05:50:24 PM
Great post.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: GJL on July 15, 2017, 05:52:22 PM
Willy Frazier.

Quote
Its entirely expected and acceptable that an effigy of a man who was directly and indirectly responsible for the deaths and torture of hundreds of citizens and the repeated bombing of many towns is placed on a bonfire. I simply wont say this was wrong, it happens all over the world with hate figures. McGuinness was a terrorist godfather, he wasn't just an ordinary Catholic, he was a man of extreme hate who's actions will continue to bring tears to a great many for many more years to come.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: StGallsGAA on July 15, 2017, 05:55:01 PM
+1.  As Cardinal O'Fiaich pointed out 99% of the bigotry comes from one section of the community.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: imtommygunn on July 15, 2017, 05:58:43 PM
What we certainly need is less politicians like that emma pengelly whatever you call her. Vile individual.

Sure it's grand. Bit of fun. Insurance will cover the damage ???

Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Wildweasel74 on July 15, 2017, 07:09:24 PM
What we certainly need is less politicians like that emma pengelly whatever you call her. Vile individual.

Think Sinn Fein can take the blame for that lovely person getting in, between this and the flags in estates, she already showed what she all about
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: 6th sam on July 15, 2017, 10:07:01 PM
What we certainly need is less politicians like that emma pengelly whatever you call her. Vile individual.

Think Sinn Fein can take the blame for that lovely person getting in, between this and the flags in estates, she already showed what she all about

With all due respect it serves no-one well distracting from the core issue. Emma Pengelly secured her seat , apparently on the back of her fully mobilising the loyalist vote(for obvious reasons) . The implication that Mairtín Ó'Muilleoir should have stepped aside to give Alastair McDonald a free-run, is an unfair assessment in that it would be viewed as a pan-nationalist front and would have mobilised a pan-unionist front. I think the future will involve those parties that favour equality and respect being brave enough to form an alliance. The biggest barrier to that happening is that apparently some in the SDLP have more antagonism towards Sinn Fein, than towards extreme unionism !
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Owen Brannigan on July 15, 2017, 11:08:50 PM
What we certainly need is less politicians like that emma pengelly whatever you call her. Vile individual.

Think Sinn Fein can take the blame for that lovely person getting in, between this and the flags in estates, she already showed what she all about

With all due respect it serves no-one well distracting from the core issue. Emma Pengelly secured her seat , apparently on the back of her fully mobilising the loyalist vote(for obvious reasons) . The implication that Mairtín Ó'Muilleoir should have stepped aside to give Alastair McDonald a free-run, is an unfair assessment in that it would be viewed as a pan-nationalist front and would have mobilised a pan-unionist front. I think the future will involve those parties that favour equality and respect being brave enough to form an alliance. The biggest barrier to that happening is that apparently some in the SDLP have more antagonism towards Sinn Fein, than towards extreme unionism !

That is a mutual antagonism.  SF want to remove SDLP as a political entity and SDLP wants to survive.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Wildweasel74 on July 15, 2017, 11:36:48 PM
The reality is Sinn Fein worried more about their patch and would do anything possible to push the SDLP out and is quite happy to be dealing with the extreme DUP on the other side, both tried their best to sink the moderate parties back in the late 90`s early 00`s to the point all when f**k all gets done.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: 6th sam on July 16, 2017, 08:07:32 AM
What we certainly need is less politicians like that emma pengelly whatever you call her. Vile individual.

Think Sinn Fein can take the blame for that lovely person getting in, between this and the flags in estates, she already showed what she all about

With all due respect it serves no-one well distracting from the core issue. Emma Pengelly secured her seat , apparently on the back of her fully mobilising the loyalist vote(for obvious reasons) . The implication that Mairtín Ó'Muilleoir should have stepped aside to give Alastair McDonald a free-run, is an unfair assessment in that it would be viewed as a pan-nationalist front and would have mobilised a pan-unionist front. I think the future will involve those parties that favour equality and respect being brave enough to form an alliance. The biggest barrier to that happening is that apparently some in the SDLP have more antagonism towards Sinn Fein, than towards extreme unionism !

That is a mutual antagonism.  SF want to remove SDLP as a political entity and SDLP wants to survive.
The Sdlp were the architects of the peace process and Martin mcguinness delivered Sinn féin. The British government dragged unionism kicking and screaming into the process. But that was 20 years ago. The landscape has changed. An All-Island solution is now inevitable. The big question for the Sdlp is can they once again put a better future for all before party political interests . Are they prepared to drive a equality/respect agenda to challenge the unionist parties, as opposed to the continued antagonism towards sinn féin from some in their party?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Owen Brannigan on July 16, 2017, 08:20:17 AM
At what stage did SF decide to put country or even its people before party? The issue for SDLP is to decide who it represents and what they want that gives the party a distinctive characteristic which sets it apart from others. Good article in Saturday's Irish News by Patrick Murphy in which he describes 3 options for SDLP. They can slowly die, rebrand or merge and in two these they disappear. However, in these two they leave a significant number of the electorate, both voting and non-voting supporters, without representation.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Rossfan on July 16, 2017, 10:07:31 AM
Apart from being not SF, what is the SDLP and that "significant number if the electorate"  for?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 16, 2017, 10:36:43 AM
At what stage did SF decide to put country or even its people before party? The issue for SDLP is to decide who it represents and what they want that gives the party a distinctive characteristic which sets it apart from others. Good article in Saturday's Irish News by Patrick Murphy in which he describes 3 options for SDLP. They can slowly die, rebrand or merge and in two these they disappear. However, in these two they leave a significant number of the electorate, both voting and non-voting supporters, without representation.

Sinn Féin are extremely strong on an equality and respect agenda. Look at how strongly they've fought for gay marriage. They campaigned against the obscene gay blood issue and removed it. They have supported traveller rights. They have a very strong anti-racism agenda and are at the forefront against direct provision. They've also made brave decisions which could have alienated a part of their electorate by meeting royalty and attending various British Army remembrance events.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Owen Brannigan on July 16, 2017, 11:05:51 AM
At what stage did SF decide to put country or even its people before party? The issue for SDLP is to decide who it represents and what they want that gives the party a distinctive characteristic which sets it apart from others. Good article in Saturday's Irish News by Patrick Murphy in which he describes 3 options for SDLP. They can slowly die, rebrand or merge and in two these they disappear. However, in these two they leave a significant number of the electorate, both voting and non-voting supporters, without representation.

Sinn Féin are extremely strong on an equality and respect agenda. Look at how strongly they've fought for gay marriage. They campaigned against the obscene gay blood issue and removed it. They have supported traveller rights. They have a very strong anti-racism agenda and are at the forefront against direct provision. They've also made brave decisions which could have alienated a part of their electorate by meeting royalty and attending various British Army remembrance events.

They are certainly strong on calling for an equality and respect agenda but the actions are thin on the ground.  Only Martin McGuinness was brave enough to take a stand on meeting royalty, no sign of his successor making much inroads in this area. The first statement from the new SF leader of Derry & Strabane council was that he wouldn't attend such occasions.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: seafoid on July 16, 2017, 12:16:10 PM
Apart from being not SF, what is the SDLP and that "significant number if the electorate"  for?
SF are neoliberal
The SDLP could work on that

NI is weird cos the moderate parties were eclipsed by the DUP and SF
Maybe if there is another crisis voters will flip
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 16, 2017, 02:01:38 PM
Apart from being not SF, what is the SDLP and that "significant number if the electorate"  for?
SF are neoliberal
The SDLP could work on that

NI is weird cos the moderate parties were eclipsed by the DUP and SF
Maybe if there is another crisis voters will flip

Nonsense, Sinn Féin are democratic socialist, Fianna Fail and Fine Gael are neoliberal.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: seafoid on July 16, 2017, 02:24:34 PM
Apart from being not SF, what is the SDLP and that "significant number if the electorate"  for?
SF are neoliberal
The SDLP could work on that

NI is weird cos the moderate parties were eclipsed by the DUP and SF
Maybe if there is another crisis voters will flip

Nonsense, Sinn Féin are democratic socialist, Fianna Fail and Fine Gael are neoliberal.
Ff,Labour, FG, SF and the DUP all run the neoliberal agenda
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 16, 2017, 04:30:42 PM
Apart from being not SF, what is the SDLP and that "significant number if the electorate"  for?
SF are neoliberal
The SDLP could work on that

NI is weird cos the moderate parties were eclipsed by the DUP and SF
Maybe if there is another crisis voters will flip

Nonsense, Sinn Féin are democratic socialist, Fianna Fail and Fine Gael are neoliberal.
Ff,Labour, FG, SF and the DUP all run the neoliberal agenda

SF are the same as FF and FG; usual Trot bullsh1te.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: seafoid on July 16, 2017, 04:54:37 PM
Apart from being not SF, what is the SDLP and that "significant number if the electorate"  for?
SF are neoliberal
The SDLP could work on that

NI is weird cos the moderate parties were eclipsed by the DUP and SF
Maybe if there is another crisis voters will flip

Nonsense, Sinn Féin are democratic socialist, Fianna Fail and Fine Gael are neoliberal.
Ff,Labour, FG, SF and the DUP all run the neoliberal agenda

SF are the same as FF and FG; usual Trot bullsh1te.
Trots would support demand, not debt
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 16, 2017, 04:58:12 PM
Apart from being not SF, what is the SDLP and that "significant number if the electorate"  for?
SF are neoliberal
The SDLP could work on that

NI is weird cos the moderate parties were eclipsed by the DUP and SF
Maybe if there is another crisis voters will flip

Nonsense, Sinn Féin are democratic socialist, Fianna Fail and Fine Gael are neoliberal.
Ff,Labour, FG, SF and the DUP all run the neoliberal agenda

SF are the same as FF and FG; usual Trot bullsh1te.
Trots would support demand, not debt

You don't know what you're talking about; pure waffle.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: seafoid on July 16, 2017, 05:17:34 PM
Apart from being not SF, what is the SDLP and that "significant number if the electorate"  for?
SF are neoliberal
The SDLP could work on that

NI is weird cos the moderate parties were eclipsed by the DUP and SF
Maybe if there is another crisis voters will flip

Nonsense, Sinn Féin are democratic socialist, Fianna Fail and Fine Gael are neoliberal.
Ff,Labour, FG, SF and the DUP all run the neoliberal agenda

SF are the same as FF and FG; usual Trot bullsh1te.
Trots would support demand, not debt

You don't know what you're talking about; pure waffle.
Justify your argument then in 150 words
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 16, 2017, 05:32:47 PM
Apart from being not SF, what is the SDLP and that "significant number if the electorate"  for?
SF are neoliberal
The SDLP could work on that

NI is weird cos the moderate parties were eclipsed by the DUP and SF
Maybe if there is another crisis voters will flip

Nonsense, Sinn Féin are democratic socialist, Fianna Fail and Fine Gael are neoliberal.
Ff,Labour, FG, SF and the DUP all run the neoliberal agenda

SF are the same as FF and FG; usual Trot bullsh1te.
Trots would support demand, not debt

You don't know what you're talking about; pure waffle.
Justify your argument then in 150 words

Why? When it's you coming out with rubbish like SF are the same as FF and FG, SF support debt and Trot politics is about supporting demand (which I can only assume is a malapropism).
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: seafoid on July 16, 2017, 06:37:35 PM
Apart from being not SF, what is the SDLP and that "significant number if the electorate"  for?
SF are neoliberal
The SDLP could work on that

NI is weird cos the moderate parties were eclipsed by the DUP and SF
Maybe if there is another crisis voters will flip

Nonsense, Sinn Féin are democratic socialist, Fianna Fail and Fine Gael are neoliberal.
Ff,Labour, FG, SF and the DUP all run the neoliberal agenda

SF are the same as FF and FG; usual Trot bullsh1te.
Trots would support demand, not debt

You don't know what you're talking about; pure waffle.
Justify your argument then in 150 words

Why? When it's you coming out with rubbish like SF are the same as FF and FG, SF support debt and Trot politics is about supporting demand (which I can only assume is a malapropism).
Demand focus means paying attention to  the interests of people to support things such as payrises, investment in people, public investment in projects, bank regulation  and reducing income inequality. Neoliberalism is the opposite. It focuses on debt and the short term interests of companies.
The SNP is neoliberal. So is SF.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 16, 2017, 07:02:41 PM
On the Sinn Féin website right now are press releases:

Calling for the reopening of Al Aqsa mosque (equality - left wing).
Raising concern over Bessborough (to avoid evidence against big organisations who mistreated vulnerable residents being lost - left wing).
Challenging the Taoiseach over Jobstown allegations (taking the side of the little man - left wing).
Calling the raising of pension age to 70 ridiculous (siding with older people - left wing).
Making dedicated respite care a priority (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Making affordable child care and tackling child poverty key priorities (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Highlighting only 21% of a fund for housing people with disabilities being spent in 2016 (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Condemning homophobic abuse (equality - left wing).

I could go on, but what's the point... Sinn Féin actually go out and tackle issues and fight for people on a left wing basis rather than sitting in darkened rooms, trying to ignore the smell from their unwashed hair, clothes and bodies whilst arguing about who is more left wing like the waste of space Trots with their goon show representatives like Eamonn McCann, Gerry Carroll (man makes me vomit) and Richard Boyd Barrett unable to decide on what to call themselves from one day to the next.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: LCohen on July 16, 2017, 07:42:42 PM
On the Sinn Féin website right now are press releases:

Calling for the reopening of Al Aqsa mosque (equality - left wing).
Raising concern over Bessborough (to avoid evidence against big organisations who mistreated vulnerable residents being lost - left wing).
Challenging the Taoiseach over Jobstown allegations (taking the side of the little man - left wing).
Calling the raising of pension age to 70 ridiculous (siding with older people - left wing).
Making dedicated respite care a priority (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Making affordable child care and tackling child poverty key priorities (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Highlighting only 21% of a fund for housing people with disabilities being spent in 2016 (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Condemning homophobic abuse (equality - left wing).

I could go on, but what's the point... Sinn Féin actually go out and tackle issues and fight for people on a left wing basis rather than sitting in darkened rooms, trying to ignore the smell from their unwashed hair, clothes and bodies whilst arguing about who is more left wing like the waste of space Trots with their goon show representatives like Eamonn McCann, Gerry Carroll (man makes me vomit) and Richard Boyd Barrett unable to decide on what to call themselves from one day to the next.

Can you list their firm policy proposals and funding?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: seafoid on July 16, 2017, 07:44:18 PM
On the Sinn Féin website right now are press releases:

Calling for the reopening of Al Aqsa mosque (equality - left wing).
Raising concern over Bessborough (to avoid evidence against big organisations who mistreated vulnerable residents being lost - left wing).
Challenging the Taoiseach over Jobstown allegations (taking the side of the little man - left wing).
Calling the raising of pension age to 70 ridiculous (siding with older people - left wing).
Making dedicated respite care a priority (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Making affordable child care and tackling child poverty key priorities (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Highlighting only 21% of a fund for housing people with disabilities being spent in 2016 (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Condemning homophobic abuse (equality - left wing).

I could go on, but what's the point... Sinn Féin actually go out and tackle issues and fight for people on a left wing basis rather than sitting in darkened rooms, trying to ignore the smell from their unwashed hair, clothes and bodies whilst arguing about who is more left wing like the waste of space Trots with their goon show representatives like Eamonn McCann, Gerry Carroll (man makes me vomit) and Richard Boyd Barrett unable to decide on what to call themselves from one day to the next.
In Government in the North they sign off on Tory austerity. . They are similar to Labour. Full of talk in opposition but do what they are told in government.
A SF government in the South would maintain 15% tax.
Being pro gay rights costs nothing. 

The problem with neoliberalism is that it is unstable. And when it crashes working class voters get shafted.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 16, 2017, 07:58:55 PM
On the Sinn Féin website right now are press releases:

Calling for the reopening of Al Aqsa mosque (equality - left wing).
Raising concern over Bessborough (to avoid evidence against big organisations who mistreated vulnerable residents being lost - left wing).
Challenging the Taoiseach over Jobstown allegations (taking the side of the little man - left wing).
Calling the raising of pension age to 70 ridiculous (siding with older people - left wing).
Making dedicated respite care a priority (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Making affordable child care and tackling child poverty key priorities (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Highlighting only 21% of a fund for housing people with disabilities being spent in 2016 (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Condemning homophobic abuse (equality - left wing).

I could go on, but what's the point... Sinn Féin actually go out and tackle issues and fight for people on a left wing basis rather than sitting in darkened rooms, trying to ignore the smell from their unwashed hair, clothes and bodies whilst arguing about who is more left wing like the waste of space Trots with their goon show representatives like Eamonn McCann, Gerry Carroll (man makes me vomit) and Richard Boyd Barrett unable to decide on what to call themselves from one day to the next.
In Government in the North they sign off on Tory austerity. . They are similar to Labour. Full of talk in opposition but do what they are told in government.
A SF government in the South would maintain 15% tax.
Being pro gay rights costs nothing. 

The problem with neoliberalism is that it is unstable. And when it crashes working class voters get shafted.

Sinn Féin blocked the Tory welfare bill so it's absolutely false that they have toed the Conservative line at every point. Maintaining the 15% tax rate is necessary if Ireland wants to compete internationally. That's realpolitik, I don't like it and I suspect most in Sinn Féin don't but the country has to attract international employers if it wants to be successful.

The Great Unwashed Juche Front of Trotskyism or whatever they're calling themselves today want a society where nobody has any responsibilities whatsoever but only have rights. Real society doesn't function like that.

Name one single thing the likes of McCann, Carroll or Boyd Barrett have achieved other than saving the nation money in terms of soap and water (un)used in their offices.

On the Sinn Féin website right now are press releases:

Calling for the reopening of Al Aqsa mosque (equality - left wing).
Raising concern over Bessborough (to avoid evidence against big organisations who mistreated vulnerable residents being lost - left wing).
Challenging the Taoiseach over Jobstown allegations (taking the side of the little man - left wing).
Calling the raising of pension age to 70 ridiculous (siding with older people - left wing).
Making dedicated respite care a priority (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Making affordable child care and tackling child poverty key priorities (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Highlighting only 21% of a fund for housing people with disabilities being spent in 2016 (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Condemning homophobic abuse (equality - left wing).

I could go on, but what's the point... Sinn Féin actually go out and tackle issues and fight for people on a left wing basis rather than sitting in darkened rooms, trying to ignore the smell from their unwashed hair, clothes and bodies whilst arguing about who is more left wing like the waste of space Trots with their goon show representatives like Eamonn McCann, Gerry Carroll (man makes me vomit) and Richard Boyd Barrett unable to decide on what to call themselves from one day to the next.

Can you list their firm policy proposals and funding?

All in the alternative budget which they publish every year and are, in fact, the only party to do so:

http://www.sinnfein.ie/budget2017
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Owen Brannigan on July 16, 2017, 09:27:59 PM


Sinn Féin blocked the Tory welfare bill so it's absolutely false that they have toed the Conservative line at every point.

Wrong, SF and DUP worked against all others in Assembly to vote that welfare should be handed back to Tories in UK parliament to implement reforms. 
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 16, 2017, 09:35:45 PM


Sinn Féin blocked the Tory welfare bill so it's absolutely false that they have toed the Conservative line at every point.

Wrong, SF and DUP worked against all others in Assembly to vote that welfare should be handed back to Tories in UK parliament to implement reforms.

Not wrong, that came after a period of crisis to get the peace process back up and running.

Initially, Sinn Féin blocked it:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-31798766

Sinn Féin were backed into a corner where to do other than hand back welfare powers to London would have meant key elements of the peace process failed:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-34853112
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Owen Brannigan on July 16, 2017, 11:54:18 PM


Sinn Féin blocked the Tory welfare bill so it's absolutely false that they have toed the Conservative line at every point.

Wrong, SF and DUP worked against all others in Assembly to vote that welfare should be handed back to Tories in UK parliament to implement reforms.

Not wrong, that came after a period of crisis to get the peace process back up and running.

Initially, Sinn Féin blocked it:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-31798766

Sinn Féin were backed into a corner where to do other than hand back welfare powers to London would have meant key elements of the peace process failed:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-34853112

So, even as naive as you are in believing this nonsense you have written above, surely you would have worked out from your own logic as stated above that SF will do whatever is necessary for it's own good when "backed into a corner', even to submit the poorest in society in the North to the will of the Tories in their push for austerity for the weakest.  Anything to prevent SF appearing to the public and politicians in the 26 counties as being total hypocrites by implementing austerity, even by proxy, in the North while lambasting any government in the Republic that implemented its own cuts at the behest of the EU bankers.

So, what did you say above about SF only working for the good of the country and not party interests?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: seafoid on July 17, 2017, 12:08:06 AM
On the Sinn Féin website right now are press releases:

Calling for the reopening of Al Aqsa mosque (equality - left wing).
Raising concern over Bessborough (to avoid evidence against big organisations who mistreated vulnerable residents being lost - left wing).
Challenging the Taoiseach over Jobstown allegations (taking the side of the little man - left wing).
Calling the raising of pension age to 70 ridiculous (siding with older people - left wing).
Making dedicated respite care a priority (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Making affordable child care and tackling child poverty key priorities (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Highlighting only 21% of a fund for housing people with disabilities being spent in 2016 (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Condemning homophobic abuse (equality - left wing).

I could go on, but what's the point... Sinn Féin actually go out and tackle issues and fight for people on a left wing basis rather than sitting in darkened rooms, trying to ignore the smell from their unwashed hair, clothes and bodies whilst arguing about who is more left wing like the waste of space Trots with their goon show representatives like Eamonn McCann, Gerry Carroll (man makes me vomit) and Richard Boyd Barrett unable to decide on what to call themselves from one day to the next.
In Government in the North they sign off on Tory austerity. . They are similar to Labour. Full of talk in opposition but do what they are told in government.
A SF government in the South would maintain 15% tax.
Being pro gay rights costs nothing. 

The problem with neoliberalism is that it is unstable. And when it crashes working class voters get shafted.

Sinn Féin blocked the Tory welfare bill so it's absolutely false that they have toed the Conservative line at every point. Maintaining the 15% tax rate is necessary if Ireland wants to compete internationally. That's realpolitik, I don't like it and I suspect most in Sinn Féin don't but the country has to attract international employers if it wants to be successful.

The Great Unwashed Juche Front of Trotskyism or whatever they're calling themselves today want a society where nobody has any responsibilities whatsoever but only have rights. Real society doesn't function like that.

Name one single thing the likes of McCann, Carroll or Boyd Barrett have achieved other than saving the nation money in terms of soap and water (un)used in their offices.

On the Sinn Féin website right now are press releases:

Calling for the reopening of Al Aqsa mosque (equality - left wing).
Raising concern over Bessborough (to avoid evidence against big organisations who mistreated vulnerable residents being lost - left wing).
Challenging the Taoiseach over Jobstown allegations (taking the side of the little man - left wing).
Calling the raising of pension age to 70 ridiculous (siding with older people - left wing).
Making dedicated respite care a priority (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Making affordable child care and tackling child poverty key priorities (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Highlighting only 21% of a fund for housing people with disabilities being spent in 2016 (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Condemning homophobic abuse (equality - left wing).

I could go on, but what's the point... Sinn Féin actually go out and tackle issues and fight for people on a left wing basis rather than sitting in darkened rooms, trying to ignore the smell from their unwashed hair, clothes and bodies whilst arguing about who is more left wing like the waste of space Trots with their goon show representatives like Eamonn McCann, Gerry Carroll (man makes me vomit) and Richard Boyd Barrett unable to decide on what to call themselves from one day to the next.

Can you list their firm policy proposals and funding?

All in the alternative budget which they publish every year and are, in fact, the only party to do so:

http://www.sinnfein.ie/budget2017
15% tax and membership of the euro "are realpolitik".  I am not sure.  Because they' expose the country to an unstable system in which profits are privatised and losses are socialised.

Who paid to bail out Anglo? Did any company paying tax chip.in ? Or was it the people ?
What did SF do in the North to protect voters from the next crash ?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 17, 2017, 02:33:04 AM


Sinn Féin blocked the Tory welfare bill so it's absolutely false that they have toed the Conservative line at every point.

Wrong, SF and DUP worked against all others in Assembly to vote that welfare should be handed back to Tories in UK parliament to implement reforms.

Not wrong, that came after a period of crisis to get the peace process back up and running.

Initially, Sinn Féin blocked it:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-31798766

Sinn Féin were backed into a corner where to do other than hand back welfare powers to London would have meant key elements of the peace process failed:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-34853112

So, even as naive as you are in believing this nonsense you have written above, surely you would have worked out from your own logic as stated above that SF will do whatever is necessary for it's own good when "backed into a corner', even to submit the poorest in society in the North to the will of the Tories in their push for austerity for the weakest.  Anything to prevent SF appearing to the public and politicians in the 26 counties as being total hypocrites by implementing austerity, even by proxy, in the North while lambasting any government in the Republic that implemented its own cuts at the behest of the EU bankers.

So, what did you say above about SF only working for the good of the country and not party interests?

Ah, so you'd prefer devolution collapsed in the North and direct rule came back in, thus leaving the peace process in tatters. Quare comfortable to be pontificating in the South eh? Sinn Féin did what was necessary for the people in general, not for itself. It kept the peace process moving forward even if it disagreed with how. Even now, all parties are continually negotiating on a return to power sharing because the alternative is not great. Yes, there are issues with the DUP, yes now is finally time to play hard ball but I still dont see anyone backing away from negotiations. Anywau, itd be a fair stronger argument if the gombeens in the South, and I'm southern myself, didn't vote in the usual sh1tehawk politicians. For God's sake, after 2007/2008, how can anyone with a conscience vote FF. And after FG policies damning the average person for a crash that wasn't our fault... Well, if we don't vote for an alternative now... And if someone can come up with a single example why I should vote for the Kim Jong Un Appreciation Society I'll be interested.

Let's be absolutely honest about things, any Irish person who doesn't back a 32 county republic is a traitor and there is only one party which wants to see that happen.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 17, 2017, 02:45:01 AM
On the Sinn Féin website right now are press releases:

Calling for the reopening of Al Aqsa mosque (equality - left wing).
Raising concern over Bessborough (to avoid evidence against big organisations who mistreated vulnerable residents being lost - left wing).
Challenging the Taoiseach over Jobstown allegations (taking the side of the little man - left wing).
Calling the raising of pension age to 70 ridiculous (siding with older people - left wing).
Making dedicated respite care a priority (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Making affordable child care and tackling child poverty key priorities (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Highlighting only 21% of a fund for housing people with disabilities being spent in 2016 (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Condemning homophobic abuse (equality - left wing).

I could go on, but what's the point... Sinn Féin actually go out and tackle issues and fight for people on a left wing basis rather than sitting in darkened rooms, trying to ignore the smell from their unwashed hair, clothes and bodies whilst arguing about who is more left wing like the waste of space Trots with their goon show representatives like Eamonn McCann, Gerry Carroll (man makes me vomit) and Richard Boyd Barrett unable to decide on what to call themselves from one day to the next.
In Government in the North they sign off on Tory austerity. . They are similar to Labour. Full of talk in opposition but do what they are told in government.
A SF government in the South would maintain 15% tax.
Being pro gay rights costs nothing. 

The problem with neoliberalism is that it is unstable. And when it crashes working class voters get shafted.

Sinn Féin blocked the Tory welfare bill so it's absolutely false that they have toed the Conservative line at every point. Maintaining the 15% tax rate is necessary if Ireland wants to compete internationally. That's realpolitik, I don't like it and I suspect most in Sinn Féin don't but the country has to attract international employers if it wants to be successful.

The Great Unwashed Juche Front of Trotskyism or whatever they're calling themselves today want a society where nobody has any responsibilities whatsoever but only have rights. Real society doesn't function like that.

Name one single thing the likes of McCann, Carroll or Boyd Barrett have achieved other than saving the nation money in terms of soap and water (un)used in their offices.

On the Sinn Féin website right now are press releases:

Calling for the reopening of Al Aqsa mosque (equality - left wing).
Raising concern over Bessborough (to avoid evidence against big organisations who mistreated vulnerable residents being lost - left wing).
Challenging the Taoiseach over Jobstown allegations (taking the side of the little man - left wing).
Calling the raising of pension age to 70 ridiculous (siding with older people - left wing).
Making dedicated respite care a priority (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Making affordable child care and tackling child poverty key priorities (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Highlighting only 21% of a fund for housing people with disabilities being spent in 2016 (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Condemning homophobic abuse (equality - left wing).

I could go on, but what's the point... Sinn Féin actually go out and tackle issues and fight for people on a left wing basis rather than sitting in darkened rooms, trying to ignore the smell from their unwashed hair, clothes and bodies whilst arguing about who is more left wing like the waste of space Trots with their goon show representatives like Eamonn McCann, Gerry Carroll (man makes me vomit) and Richard Boyd Barrett unable to decide on what to call themselves from one day to the next.

Can you list their firm policy proposals and funding?

All in the alternative budget which they publish every year and are, in fact, the only party to do so:

http://www.sinnfein.ie/budget2017
15% tax and membership of the euro "are realpolitik".  I am not sure.  Because they' expose the country to an unstable system in which profits are privatised and losses are socialised.

Who paid to bail out Anglo? Did any company paying tax chip.in ? Or was it the people ?
What did SF do in the North to protect voters from the next crash ?

What's your alternative Pol Pot?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: seafoid on July 17, 2017, 07:13:27 AM
On the Sinn Féin website right now are press releases:

Calling for the reopening of Al Aqsa mosque (equality - left wing).
Raising concern over Bessborough (to avoid evidence against big organisations who mistreated vulnerable residents being lost - left wing).
Challenging the Taoiseach over Jobstown allegations (taking the side of the little man - left wing).
Calling the raising of pension age to 70 ridiculous (siding with older people - left wing).
Making dedicated respite care a priority (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Making affordable child care and tackling child poverty key priorities (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Highlighting only 21% of a fund for housing people with disabilities being spent in 2016 (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Condemning homophobic abuse (equality - left wing).

I could go on, but what's the point... Sinn Féin actually go out and tackle issues and fight for people on a left wing basis rather than sitting in darkened rooms, trying to ignore the smell from their unwashed hair, clothes and bodies whilst arguing about who is more left wing like the waste of space Trots with their goon show representatives like Eamonn McCann, Gerry Carroll (man makes me vomit) and Richard Boyd Barrett unable to decide on what to call themselves from one day to the next.
In Government in the North they sign off on Tory austerity. . They are similar to Labour. Full of talk in opposition but do what they are told in government.
A SF government in the South would maintain 15% tax.
Being pro gay rights costs nothing. 

The problem with neoliberalism is that it is unstable. And when it crashes working class voters get shafted.

Sinn Féin blocked the Tory welfare bill so it's absolutely false that they have toed the Conservative line at every point. Maintaining the 15% tax rate is necessary if Ireland wants to compete internationally. That's realpolitik, I don't like it and I suspect most in Sinn Féin don't but the country has to attract international employers if it wants to be successful.

The Great Unwashed Juche Front of Trotskyism or whatever they're calling themselves today want a society where nobody has any responsibilities whatsoever but only have rights. Real society doesn't function like that.

Name one single thing the likes of McCann, Carroll or Boyd Barrett have achieved other than saving the nation money in terms of soap and water (un)used in their offices.

On the Sinn Féin website right now are press releases:

Calling for the reopening of Al Aqsa mosque (equality - left wing).
Raising concern over Bessborough (to avoid evidence against big organisations who mistreated vulnerable residents being lost - left wing).
Challenging the Taoiseach over Jobstown allegations (taking the side of the little man - left wing).
Calling the raising of pension age to 70 ridiculous (siding with older people - left wing).
Making dedicated respite care a priority (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Making affordable child care and tackling child poverty key priorities (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Highlighting only 21% of a fund for housing people with disabilities being spent in 2016 (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Condemning homophobic abuse (equality - left wing).

I could go on, but what's the point... Sinn Féin actually go out and tackle issues and fight for people on a left wing basis rather than sitting in darkened rooms, trying to ignore the smell from their unwashed hair, clothes and bodies whilst arguing about who is more left wing like the waste of space Trots with their goon show representatives like Eamonn McCann, Gerry Carroll (man makes me vomit) and Richard Boyd Barrett unable to decide on what to call themselves from one day to the next.

Can you list their firm policy proposals and funding?

All in the alternative budget which they publish every year and are, in fact, the only party to do so:

http://www.sinnfein.ie/budget2017
15% tax and membership of the euro "are realpolitik".  I am not sure.  Because they' expose the country to an unstable system in which profits are privatised and losses are socialised.

Who paid to bail out Anglo? Did any company paying tax chip.in ? Or was it the people ?
What did SF do in the North to protect voters from the next crash ?

What's your alternative Pol Pot?
I think you can do better than the Eurozone not having a bank bailout fund without needing to resort to genocide.
In 2006 56% of people in the South were members of a private pension scheme.  Today it''s 30%.
That is the system.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Owen Brannigan on July 17, 2017, 09:00:11 AM
Quare comfortable to be pontificating in the South eh?
Except some of us live in N.Ireland and know exactly what is being done to us and not in Kilkenny just across from their homeland in Wales.
Sinn Féin did what was necessary for the people in general, not for itself.
Yeah, hand over welfare reform to the Tories to hid behind their actions and then blame them for the result.
Even now, all parties are continually negotiating on a return to power sharing because the alternative is not great. Yes, there are issues with the DUP, yes now is finally time to play hard ball but I still dont see anyone backing away from negotiations.
What negotiations, there haven't been any serious negotiations, just calls from Adams for Mrs May to come over and sort out the problems.  Jobs are being lost, parents are losing uniform grants, construction firms going to the wall, etc after SF collapsed Assembly over RHI that it has forgotten and for an ILA that puts no bread on the table for the poorest families.
And if someone can come up with a single example why I should vote for the Kim Jong Un Appreciation Society I'll be interested.
Surprising how much the great leader and his family have in common with SF marxist ideology, economics, etc.
Let's be absolutely honest about things, any Irish person who doesn't back a 32 county republic is a traitor and there is only one party which wants to see that happen.
So, what is your solution to a country where, under your definition, less than 20% of the electorate are traitors.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Rossfan on July 17, 2017, 09:50:28 AM
Anyway what do the SDLP stand for nowadays?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Applesisapples on July 17, 2017, 10:19:33 AM
What we certainly need is less politicians like that emma pengelly whatever you call her. Vile individual.

Think Sinn Fein can take the blame for that lovely person getting in, between this and the flags in estates, she already showed what she all about
The SDLP refused to countenance a deal, so Big Al has only himself to blame.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Applesisapples on July 17, 2017, 10:24:41 AM
The reality is Sinn Fein worried more about their patch and would do anything possible to push the SDLP out and is quite happy to be dealing with the extreme DUP on the other side, both tried their best to sink the moderate parties back in the late 90`s early 00`s to the point all when f**k all gets done.
The reality is that SF take a longer view, the SDLP could have put them on the spot and didn't. SF realise that the majority of Nationalists are beyond caring about Stormont or Westminster so for SF it is building towards a UI. Whether they achieve that or not is still in doubt but at least they have a game plan. The reasons the SDLP are where they are are many, but a lack of viable policies and a lazy approach at grassroots level and a disconnected and snooty attitude to the nationalist cause are prime issues for me.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Applesisapples on July 17, 2017, 10:27:39 AM
Apart from being not SF, what is the SDLP and that "significant number if the electorate"  for?
SF are neoliberal
The SDLP could work on that

NI is weird cos the moderate parties were eclipsed by the DUP and SF
Maybe if there is another crisis voters will flip
This is a lazy assessment, the DUP and SF now represent the middle ground whilst holding on to those in their support with more extreme views. The more Unionists and the press demonise SF and their voters the stronger they will become.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: armaghniac on July 17, 2017, 11:13:02 AM
Apart from being not SF, what is the SDLP and that "significant number if the electorate"  for?
SF are neoliberal
The SDLP could work on that

NI is weird cos the moderate parties were eclipsed by the DUP and SF
Maybe if there is another crisis voters will flip
This is a lazy assessment, the DUP and SF now represent the middle ground whilst holding on to those in their support with more extreme views. The more Unionists and the press demonise SF and their voters the stronger they will become.

Whatever about the DUP, SF got more votes not because people became extreme but because SF moved towards the people. And the DUP have become more extreme under Foster, but they still represent "moderation" when compared to the TUV.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Applesisapples on July 17, 2017, 11:29:33 AM
Apart from being not SF, what is the SDLP and that "significant number if the electorate"  for?
SF are neoliberal
The SDLP could work on that

NI is weird cos the moderate parties were eclipsed by the DUP and SF
Maybe if there is another crisis voters will flip
This is a lazy assessment, the DUP and SF now represent the middle ground whilst holding on to those in their support with more extreme views. The more Unionists and the press demonise SF and their voters the stronger they will become.

Whatever about the DUP, SF got more votes not because people became extreme but because SF moved towards the people. And the DUP have become more extreme under Foster, but they still represent "moderation" when compared to the TUV.
Not scientific but I get the sense that as a nationalist majority looms Unionism is coalescing out of fear and their reaction will drive support for SF and a UI.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 17, 2017, 11:40:16 AM
Quare comfortable to be pontificating in the South eh?
Except some of us live in N.Ireland and know exactly what is being done to us and not in Kilkenny just across from their homeland in Wales.
Sinn Féin did what was necessary for the people in general, not for itself.
Yeah, hand over welfare reform to the Tories to hid behind their actions and then blame them for the result.
Even now, all parties are continually negotiating on a return to power sharing because the alternative is not great. Yes, there are issues with the DUP, yes now is finally time to play hard ball but I still dont see anyone backing away from negotiations.
What negotiations, there haven't been any serious negotiations, just calls from Adams for Mrs May to come over and sort out the problems.  Jobs are being lost, parents are losing uniform grants, construction firms going to the wall, etc after SF collapsed Assembly over RHI that it has forgotten and for an ILA that puts no bread on the table for the poorest families.
And if someone can come up with a single example why I should vote for the Kim Jong Un Appreciation Society I'll be interested.
Surprising how much the great leader and his family have in common with SF marxist ideology, economics, etc.
Let's be absolutely honest about things, any Irish person who doesn't back a 32 county republic is a traitor and there is only one party which wants to see that happen.
So, what is your solution to a country where, under your definition, less than 20% of the electorate are traitors.

You don't have to vote Sinn Féin to back a 32 county republic. Oh and I'm Irish, born in Kilkenny but thanks for your xenophobia. The rest of your post was a bit yawny to be honest, lifted, as it was, from the pages of the Irish Independent.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 17, 2017, 11:49:10 AM
On the Sinn Féin website right now are press releases:

Calling for the reopening of Al Aqsa mosque (equality - left wing).
Raising concern over Bessborough (to avoid evidence against big organisations who mistreated vulnerable residents being lost - left wing).
Challenging the Taoiseach over Jobstown allegations (taking the side of the little man - left wing).
Calling the raising of pension age to 70 ridiculous (siding with older people - left wing).
Making dedicated respite care a priority (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Making affordable child care and tackling child poverty key priorities (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Highlighting only 21% of a fund for housing people with disabilities being spent in 2016 (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Condemning homophobic abuse (equality - left wing).

I could go on, but what's the point... Sinn Féin actually go out and tackle issues and fight for people on a left wing basis rather than sitting in darkened rooms, trying to ignore the smell from their unwashed hair, clothes and bodies whilst arguing about who is more left wing like the waste of space Trots with their goon show representatives like Eamonn McCann, Gerry Carroll (man makes me vomit) and Richard Boyd Barrett unable to decide on what to call themselves from one day to the next.
In Government in the North they sign off on Tory austerity. . They are similar to Labour. Full of talk in opposition but do what they are told in government.
A SF government in the South would maintain 15% tax.
Being pro gay rights costs nothing. 

The problem with neoliberalism is that it is unstable. And when it crashes working class voters get shafted.

Sinn Féin blocked the Tory welfare bill so it's absolutely false that they have toed the Conservative line at every point. Maintaining the 15% tax rate is necessary if Ireland wants to compete internationally. That's realpolitik, I don't like it and I suspect most in Sinn Féin don't but the country has to attract international employers if it wants to be successful.

The Great Unwashed Juche Front of Trotskyism or whatever they're calling themselves today want a society where nobody has any responsibilities whatsoever but only have rights. Real society doesn't function like that.

Name one single thing the likes of McCann, Carroll or Boyd Barrett have achieved other than saving the nation money in terms of soap and water (un)used in their offices.

On the Sinn Féin website right now are press releases:

Calling for the reopening of Al Aqsa mosque (equality - left wing).
Raising concern over Bessborough (to avoid evidence against big organisations who mistreated vulnerable residents being lost - left wing).
Challenging the Taoiseach over Jobstown allegations (taking the side of the little man - left wing).
Calling the raising of pension age to 70 ridiculous (siding with older people - left wing).
Making dedicated respite care a priority (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Making affordable child care and tackling child poverty key priorities (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Highlighting only 21% of a fund for housing people with disabilities being spent in 2016 (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Condemning homophobic abuse (equality - left wing).

I could go on, but what's the point... Sinn Féin actually go out and tackle issues and fight for people on a left wing basis rather than sitting in darkened rooms, trying to ignore the smell from their unwashed hair, clothes and bodies whilst arguing about who is more left wing like the waste of space Trots with their goon show representatives like Eamonn McCann, Gerry Carroll (man makes me vomit) and Richard Boyd Barrett unable to decide on what to call themselves from one day to the next.

Can you list their firm policy proposals and funding?

All in the alternative budget which they publish every year and are, in fact, the only party to do so:

http://www.sinnfein.ie/budget2017
15% tax and membership of the euro "are realpolitik".  I am not sure.  Because they' expose the country to an unstable system in which profits are privatised and losses are socialised.

Who paid to bail out Anglo? Did any company paying tax chip.in ? Or was it the people ?
What did SF do in the North to protect voters from the next crash ?

What's your alternative Pol Pot?
I think you can do better than the Eurozone not having a bank bailout fund without needing to resort to genocide.
In 2006 56% of people in the South were members of a private pension scheme.  Today it''s 30%.
That is the system.

I agree, but Sinn Féin aren't part of the system. They opposed the bailout for a start and argued for burning the bondholders.

The PBP are a joke, they achieve nothing other than damage an already fragile left wing vote in the south. I'd love to see you outline just one thing they've achieved.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: seafoid on July 17, 2017, 12:06:53 PM
Apart from being not SF, what is the SDLP and that "significant number if the electorate"  for?
SF are neoliberal
The SDLP could work on that

NI is weird cos the moderate parties were eclipsed by the DUP and SF
Maybe if there is another crisis voters will flip
This is a lazy assessment, the DUP and SF now represent the middle ground whilst holding on to those in their support with more extreme views. The more Unionists and the press demonise SF and their voters the stronger they will become.

Whatever about the DUP, SF got more votes not because people became extreme but because SF moved towards the people. And the DUP have become more extreme under Foster, but they still represent "moderation" when compared to the TUV.
It''s a totally polarised political system. Maybe it's all the DUP''s fault but I doubt it. Maybe SF are just reacting to DUP paranoia.  Maybe they generate some of it
Would it be different if the UUP was the biggest party?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: armaghniac on July 17, 2017, 12:20:40 PM
Apart from being not SF, what is the SDLP and that "significant number if the electorate"  for?
SF are neoliberal
The SDLP could work on that

NI is weird cos the moderate parties were eclipsed by the DUP and SF
Maybe if there is another crisis voters will flip
This is a lazy assessment, the DUP and SF now represent the middle ground whilst holding on to those in their support with more extreme views. The more Unionists and the press demonise SF and their voters the stronger they will become.

Whatever about the DUP, SF got more votes not because people became extreme but because SF moved towards the people. And the DUP have become more extreme under Foster, but they still represent "moderation" when compared to the TUV.
Not scientific but I get the sense that as a nationalist majority looms Unionism is coalescing out of fear and their reaction will drive support for SF and a UI.

Which is why the union is no good. If the unionists really wanted the union and not just supremacy then they would ensure a NI that people had no real reason to want to leave, which in current terms would be one in which in things the Irish language were respected and promoted and trade and commerce with the rest of the island facilitated and developed. They clearly do not want a union that works for all, but only supremacy.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: ashman on July 17, 2017, 12:26:48 PM
Kilkevan

SF agreed in principle to the bank guarantee in 2008 .  Then realising the consequences that we anti it .  They argued to burn the bond holders which was easy in opposition but never ever explained how they would meet the consequent gap in income v expenditure .

SF are Fianna Fail's little brother .
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Kilkevan on July 17, 2017, 12:55:00 PM
Kilkevan

SF agreed in principle to the bank guarantee in 2008 .  Then realising the consequences that we anti it .  They argued to burn the bond holders which was easy in opposition but never ever explained how they would meet the consequent gap in income v expenditure .

SF are Fianna Fail's little brother .

So they were pro something, then realised it was bad for the country and changed their position and went anti it. Sounds like intelligent politics to me. Fianna Fail wrecked the country, not Sinn Féin.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Wildweasel74 on July 17, 2017, 10:19:06 PM
Wheres this majority u keep talking about! I been hearing this line for 15yrs and still unionist hold a bigger % and will do for the next 30yrs by which i be long gone; so the ui talk doesnt really hold much sway for me as in the present day health sevice a mess; education  at tipping point but hey lets all talk about a ui! Maybe if u look at voting patterns nearly 35-40% dont vote cause they give up on clowns talking about a ui and flags/bonfires and marches!!
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on July 11, 2018, 02:56:35 PM
I see newspaper reports on bonfires being removed.   This won't please some people.

/Jim.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: omaghjoe on July 11, 2018, 03:05:20 PM
Surprised at Gavin Robinson has supported the removal of the bonfire in east Belfast but I had a chuckle at this quote from him

"To my mind there is no part of unionist culture that involves the potential threat of burning out your neighbours, of destroying property or of risking life.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Jayop on July 11, 2018, 03:39:14 PM
Wheres this majority u keep talking about! I been hearing this line for 15yrs and still unionist hold a bigger % and will do for the next 30yrs by which i be long gone; so the ui talk doesnt really hold much sway for me as in the present day health sevice a mess; education  at tipping point but hey lets all talk about a ui! Maybe if u look at voting patterns nearly 35-40% dont vote cause they give up on clowns talking about a ui and flags/bonfires and marches!!

haha such a load of crap. I'll just take the most gaping load of crap though which is your final line.

In the 2016 General Election in Ireland turnout was 65%
In the 2017 UK General Election turnout was 68%
In the 2017 NI Assembly Election turnout was 65%

Brexit was slightly higher with 72% but within NI turnout was 63%

So it would seem that people choosing to vote/abstain isn't based on whether they think the politicians are clowns who just shout about flags or the UI. That's a pretty standard turnout for most western elections.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: trueblue1234 on July 11, 2018, 03:43:48 PM
Wheres this majority u keep talking about! I been hearing this line for 15yrs and still unionist hold a bigger % and will do for the next 30yrs by which i be long gone; so the ui talk doesnt really hold much sway for me as in the present day health sevice a mess; education  at tipping point but hey lets all talk about a ui! Maybe if u look at voting patterns nearly 35-40% dont vote cause they give up on clowns talking about a ui and flags/bonfires and marches!!

haha such a load of crap. I'll just take the most gaping load of crap though which is your final line.

In the 2016 General Election in Ireland turnout was 65%
In the 2017 UK General Election turnout was 68%
In the 2017 NI Assembly Election turnout was 65%

Brexit was slightly higher with 72% but within NI turnout was 63%

So it would seem that people choosing to vote/abstain isn't based on whether they think the politicians are clowns who just shout about flags or the UI. That's a pretty standard turnout for most western elections.

You're very slow at the auld typing. 
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: johnnycool on July 11, 2018, 03:48:40 PM
I see newspaper reports on bonfires being removed.   This won't please some people.

/Jim.

Peelers must have developed a bit of backbone to go and sort it out rather than come out with some mealy mouthed bullshit about working with the local bonfire builders for an amicable solution where the bonfire builders just do what they want anyway.

Long overdue.

Any farmers having their own "bonfires" tonight?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: haranguerer on July 11, 2018, 03:58:04 PM
the cops don't deserve any credit for this. Court order, being removed by external contractors. Cops forced belatedly to do their duty
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 11, 2018, 04:03:22 PM
the cops don't deserve any credit for this. Court order, being removed by external contractors. Cops forced belatedly to do their duty

Cops do what they are told, so if they are told to take it down they will! Cops deserve credit though in this situation as they’ll be attacked by the rug rats. Police don’t form policies they just carry them out? I assume
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on July 11, 2018, 04:04:05 PM
Any farmers having their own "bonfires" tonight?

Down our way we have on on the Eve of St. John's.  Fr one night only Council and Guards turned a blind eye to burning.  We did a clear out of the barn and burnt it all.   One lad was away that week and he was suggesting we start marking the Glorious Twelfth as well so that he could do the same.

Mind you ia bit of burning down a field is a far cry from the towering infernos in built up areas that you see up yer way.

/Jim.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: imtommygunn on July 11, 2018, 04:40:09 PM
the cops don't deserve any credit for this. Court order, being removed by external contractors. Cops forced belatedly to do their duty

Cops do what they are told, so if they are told to take it down they will! Cops deserve credit though in this situation as they’ll be attacked by the rug rats. Police don’t form policies they just carry them out? I assume

They are getting a lot of flak from the "loyalist" community for heavy handedness and claiming they aren't doing the same in the bogside. They reckon hamilton should resign and the ruc need to come back. You couldn't make it up.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Insane Bolt on July 11, 2018, 04:45:32 PM
The bonfire at Highfield 🙄 Don't know how to put up photos but if that's not a hate crime then I don't know what is😡
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Oraisteach on July 11, 2018, 04:48:16 PM
Anyone got pictures of this year’s flaming eyesores?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Boycey on July 11, 2018, 05:28:45 PM
Anyone got pictures of this year’s flaming eyesores?

The only one I've seen on social media is the one that fell over  :)

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/watch-co-down-bonfire-collapses-days-before-eleventh-night-celebrations-37090228.html
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Jayop on July 11, 2018, 05:36:16 PM
Anyone got pictures of this year’s flaming eyesores?

This one in Highfield isn't exactly what you'd call subtle. Attacking victims and saying Kill all Taigs.

It's not even fecking straight the t**ts.


Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Orchard park on July 11, 2018, 05:42:31 PM
How long did it take to build that  monstrosity
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: imtommygunn on July 11, 2018, 05:44:59 PM
Usually they start in may for the bonfires.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: BennyCake on July 11, 2018, 05:57:56 PM
Anyone got pictures of this year’s flaming eyesores?

This one in Highfield isn't exactly what you'd call subtle. Attacking victims and saying Kill all Taigs.

It's not even fecking straight the t**ts.




Pathetic.

Why is this shit allowed to continue year after year, decade after decade?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Minder on July 11, 2018, 06:08:47 PM
the cops don't deserve any credit for this. Court order, being removed by external contractors. Cops forced belatedly to do their duty

Cops do what they are told, so if they are told to take it down they will! Cops deserve credit though in this situation as they’ll be attacked by the rug rats. Police don’t form policies they just carry them out? I assume

They are getting a lot of flak from the "loyalist" community for heavy handedness and claiming they aren't doing the same in the bogside. They reckon hamilton should resign and the ruc need to come back. You couldn't make it up.

And the UDR probably too
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Jayop on July 11, 2018, 06:26:40 PM
Here's on that was burnt in Killinchy last night. Apparently open to anyone who wanted to show up. No flegs, no SF/SDLP/Alliance posters, no KAT banners. Reasonable size and no tyres.

If they were all like this there wouldn't be any issue with them having the bonfires.


Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: imtommygunn on July 11, 2018, 06:30:39 PM
It is the same with the marches too. A lot of the country ones not that bad but some of the belfast ones and a few others are just hate and bigotry.

It baffles me how stupid these people can be. They are wrecking their own areas and putting locals out of their houses, at a minimum temporarily, with these monstrosities. I think it is like the flags and some idiots seem to be being convinced that bigger is more british.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Insane Bolt on July 11, 2018, 06:35:05 PM
I'm trying to educate the Brits here about this expression of 'culture'....and funded by the taxpayers 😡
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: LCohen on July 11, 2018, 06:52:30 PM
We could be in for a difficult night.

I would guess that rural bonfires will pass off without incident but some of these urban efforts don’t need the obvious dangers pointed out. All of this in the context of the pressure the fire service is under the efforts of the scum bags active in the Bogside all point in a worrying direction
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Stall the Bailer on July 11, 2018, 08:02:06 PM
With the removal of two of them today in Belfast and the news that 3 different unionist politicians has come out against some of the charade, things seem to be changing for the better. Pity the hoods in Derry wouldn't cop on as well. Good to see all the main parties condemn that as well.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: imtommygunn on July 11, 2018, 08:25:09 PM
Psni saying they have info the uvf are going to orchestrate serious disorder in East belfast. Some of this shit has the feeling of flag protests about it.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Rois on July 11, 2018, 09:43:00 PM
 I was in Belfast’s newest 5* hotel this eve and it was completely empty. What a sad and sorry place.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: imtommygunn on July 11, 2018, 09:49:28 PM
This time of year things are contentious. I think the likes of nolan really stirs things up and questions need to be asked about his show. He gives that waste of space bryson air and he is trying to make this like the flag protests. People are stupid enough to listen to him. Oppressing culture my arse.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: redzone on July 11, 2018, 10:03:03 PM
Strange to read these comments as bonfires are alien to us down in the west of the province. Used to be one in omagh years ago I think
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Rois on July 11, 2018, 11:09:47 PM
Strange to read these comments as bonfires are alien to us down in the west of the province. Used to be one in omagh years ago I think
I’m from Strabane, it was alien to me too but now live in north Belfast with helicopters flying overhead at 11pm on 11th night and an alarm set for 7.30am on a bank holiday to get the heck out of here and across the border ASAP.

Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: David McKeown on July 11, 2018, 11:16:46 PM
Living in Bangor now and there's been a helicopter out this evening. Truly horrible time of the year
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: johnnycool on July 11, 2018, 11:23:33 PM
Living in Bangor now and there's been a helicopter out this evening. Truly horrible time of the year

That's to blow Dee Stitt's boney over (again)
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 11, 2018, 11:24:19 PM
Helicopters put me to sleep growing up! Nothing like a light shining in from their beam to keep you company! And that wasn’t one night a year :o

People are made of lesser stuff nowadays!
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: BarryBreensBandage on July 11, 2018, 11:31:53 PM
Was out in the garden there tonight and you could hear the pipe bands.
They were playing 'Its a Long Way to Tipperary' which I thought was strange,
Although the next tune sounded awful like 'Off to Dublin in the Green' - maybe its my hearing.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Rossfan on July 11, 2018, 11:42:24 PM
That long way to Tipp was a British army song from WW1.
The annual knuckledragging hatefest in full swing.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: BarryBreensBandage on July 11, 2018, 11:44:07 PM
That long way to Tipp was a British army song from WW1.
The annual knuckledragging hatefest in full swing.

Interesting to know - thanks
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: gallsman on July 11, 2018, 11:45:03 PM
Was out in the garden there tonight and you could hear the pipe bands.
They were playing 'Its a Long Way to Tipperary' which I thought was strange,
Although the next tune sounded awful like 'Off to Dublin in the Green' - maybe its my hearing.

WW1 song, innit
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Rossfan on July 11, 2018, 11:48:59 PM
That long way to Tipp was a British army song from WW1.
The annual knuckledragging hatefest in full swing.

Interesting to know - thanks
And so is the song "The Curragh of Kildare"
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 11, 2018, 11:51:21 PM
And Willie McBride?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: omaghjoe on July 12, 2018, 12:10:45 AM
Helicopters put me to sleep growing up! Nothing like a light shining in from their beam to keep you company! And that wasn’t one night a year :o

People are made of lesser stuff nowadays!

I get a lot of choppers in LA and they bug the shit outta me.
Give me a sort of feeling of meanace/dread

They dont bother the wife tho so I often wondered is it because of their association with my youth...but being honest I think it may have more to do with Apocalypse Now
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: BarryBreensBandage on July 12, 2018, 12:12:20 AM
That long way to Tipp was a British army song from WW1.
The annual knuckledragging hatefest in full swing.

Interesting to know - thanks
And so is the song "The Curragh of Kildare"

And straight I will repair - didn't know that either.
The song that Magowan upped the tempo on and produced 'White City'
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: omaghjoe on July 12, 2018, 12:12:56 AM
Was out in the garden there tonight and you could hear the pipe bands.
They were playing 'Its a Long Way to Tipperary' which I thought was strange,
Although the next tune sounded awful like 'Off to Dublin in the Green' - maybe its my hearing.

Pipe Bands are an altogether different kettle of fish to the flute bands.
I have to admit I quite enjoy them
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Over the Bar on July 12, 2018, 12:14:20 AM
And Willie McBride?

That was written by Eric Bogle in the 1970s
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: omaghjoe on July 12, 2018, 12:17:27 AM
Strange to read these comments as bonfires are alien to us down in the west of the province. Used to be one in omagh years ago I think

Omagh's more central in the province is it not?

Still is one on the Hospital Road, the council try and take away the material like they do with the Halloween ones
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on July 12, 2018, 01:42:49 AM
Strange to read these comments as bonfires are alien to us down in the west of the province. Used to be one in omagh years ago I think

Omagh's more central in the province is it not?

Still is one on the Hospital Road, the council try and take away the material like they do with the Halloween ones

you my friend are clueless!!
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: seafoid on July 12, 2018, 12:59:48 PM
Are there many orange lodges in Cavan and Monaghan ?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on July 12, 2018, 01:04:59 PM
That long way to Tipp was a British army song from WW1.
The annual knuckledragging hatefest in full swing.

I have heard them play minstrel boy which really confuses me. Im guessing they think its a British army tune and nothing to do with the United Irishmen lol
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: seafoid on July 12, 2018, 01:08:17 PM
That long way to Tipp was a British army song from WW1.
The annual knuckledragging hatefest in full swing.

I have heard them play minstrel boy which really confuses me. Im guessing they think its a British army tune and nothing to do with the United Irishmen lol
Did the Orangies not fight with Catholics in 1798 ?
When did the lodges become Loyal? was it after the stitch up with the Act of Union ?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: theskull1 on July 12, 2018, 02:01:40 PM
Would make a good Fin Dwyer series
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: omaghjoe on July 12, 2018, 03:05:18 PM
Strange to read these comments as bonfires are alien to us down in the west of the province. Used to be one in omagh years ago I think

Omagh's more central in the province is it not?

Still is one on the Hospital Road, the council try and take away the material like they do with the Halloween ones

you my friend are clueless!!

Uh...why?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: seafoid on July 12, 2018, 03:43:49 PM
The map of parades is very lopsided . Wonder what it will be like in 20 years
And what would King Billy think of it all today.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/northern-ireland-traffic-alerts-200000-expected-at-twelfth-demonstrations-35740386.html
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: omochain on July 12, 2018, 04:10:58 PM
Are you missing the big home coming, Heganboy?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: tippabu on July 12, 2018, 04:30:22 PM
p***k

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2018/07/12/news/brian-o-driscoll-ex-irish-rugby-captain-visits-orange-parade-1381261/
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 12, 2018, 04:48:56 PM
p***k

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2018/07/12/news/brian-o-driscoll-ex-irish-rugby-captain-visits-orange-parade-1381261/

So he makes a documentary about how sport unifies people and he’s a p***k? Hmmm, interesting
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Insane Bolt on July 12, 2018, 05:10:09 PM
p***k

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2018/07/12/news/brian-o-driscoll-ex-irish-rugby-captain-visits-orange-parade-1381261/

So he makes a documentary about how sport unifies people and he’s a p***k? Hmmm, interesting

I know ...imagine that, after all the orange order are a great bunch😳
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: longballin on July 12, 2018, 05:31:50 PM
Niave of O'Driscoll
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: seafoid on July 12, 2018, 05:54:13 PM
Sport can unite but the Orange Order is not a branch of the Armagh supporters club. It is a sectarian organisation whose identity is based on the fact that it isn't Catholic . I was disappointed when I saw the news.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: BennyCake on July 12, 2018, 06:00:02 PM
The map of parades is very lopsided . Wonder what it will be like in 20 years
And what would King Billy think of it all today.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/northern-ireland-traffic-alerts-200000-expected-at-twelfth-demonstrations-35740386.html

The unifying aspect of Sport? I bet he struggled to find anything unifying about the Twelfth
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: tippabu on July 12, 2018, 06:26:48 PM
p***k

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2018/07/12/news/brian-o-driscoll-ex-irish-rugby-captain-visits-orange-parade-1381261/

So he makes a documentary about how sport unifies people and he’s a p***k? Hmmm, interesting

Yes in my eyes he is, will we see rory best above in ardoyne singing a few rebs to show the unity? Anyone knows anything about that lot and the 12th july knows theres f*ck all good in it or cultural as they like to say. Will he be up next year to ceremonially light a big bonfire covered in tricolors and horrible messages.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: dec on July 12, 2018, 06:27:28 PM
Sport can unite but the Orange Order is not a branch of the Armagh supporters club. It is a sectarian organisation whose identity is based on the fact that it isn't Catholic . I was disappointed when I saw the news.

And despite this a southern catholic was greeted warmly at the parade, illustrating the ability of sport to unite.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: armaghniac on July 12, 2018, 06:29:30 PM
The map of parades is very lopsided . Wonder what it will be like in 20 years

Larne, Carrickfergus and Kilkeel.

Quote
And what would King Billy think of it all today.

The Pride march would be more his thing.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: BennyCake on July 12, 2018, 06:39:13 PM
Sport can unite but the Orange Order is not a branch of the Armagh supporters club. It is a sectarian organisation whose identity is based on the fact that it isn't Catholic . I was disappointed when I saw the news.

And despite this a southern catholic was greeted warmly at the parade, illustrating the ability of sport to unite.

Would Neil Lennon have been as warmly welcomed?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: dec on July 12, 2018, 06:40:36 PM
Sport can unite but the Orange Order is not a branch of the Armagh supporters club. It is a sectarian organisation whose identity is based on the fact that it isn't Catholic . I was disappointed when I saw the news.

And despite this a southern catholic was greeted warmly at the parade, illustrating the ability of sport to unite.

Would Neil Lennon have been as warmly welcomed?

Probably not, but then he is filming a "documentary outlining how Rugby as a sport unifies the country"
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: snoopdog on July 12, 2018, 06:50:23 PM
Do anything for a  bit of publicity. Rugby far from uniting a country.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Insane Bolt on July 12, 2018, 06:55:17 PM
Sport can unite but the Orange Order is not a branch of the Armagh supporters club. It is a sectarian organisation whose identity is based on the fact that it isn't Catholic . I was disappointed when I saw the news.

And despite this a southern catholic was greeted warmly at the parade, illustrating the ability of sport to unite.

Would Neil Lennon have been as warmly welcomed?

Probably not, but then he is filming a "documentary outlining how Rugby as a sport unifies the country"

What has rugby got to do with the orange order? He is obviously clueless about sectarianism 😳
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: BennyCake on July 12, 2018, 08:20:02 PM
Sport can unite but the Orange Order is not a branch of the Armagh supporters club. It is a sectarian organisation whose identity is based on the fact that it isn't Catholic . I was disappointed when I saw the news.

And despite this a southern catholic was greeted warmly at the parade, illustrating the ability of sport to unite.

Would Neil Lennon have been as warmly welcomed?

Probably not, but then he is filming a "documentary outlining how Rugby as a sport unifies the country"

Perhaps someone should film a documentary entitled how the orange order/the twelfth/marching divides society in the North.

BOD's sugar coated documentary will be shown on tv3 or somewhere, and southerners with no idea of the North will think... ach, those Orangemen and their quirky customs. Why don't Catholics just leave them alone. Sure they're a harmless bunch.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Therealdonald on July 12, 2018, 08:35:42 PM
Sport can unite but the Orange Order is not a branch of the Armagh supporters club. It is a sectarian organisation whose identity is based on the fact that it isn't Catholic . I was disappointed when I saw the news.

And despite this a southern catholic was greeted warmly at the parade, illustrating the ability of sport to unite.

Would Neil Lennon have been as warmly welcomed?

Probably not, but then he is filming a "documentary outlining how Rugby as a sport unifies the country"

Perhaps someone should film a documentary entitled how the orange order/the twelfth/marching divides society in the North.

BOD's sugar coated documentary will be shown on tv3 or somewhere, and southerners with no idea of the North will think... ach, those Orangemen and their quirky customs. Why don't Catholics just leave them alone. Sure they're a harmless bunch.

Complete tpsser. Lost all respect for him.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: dec on July 12, 2018, 08:44:51 PM
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/our-future-is-orange-as-well-as-green-says-former-armagh-gaa-star-burns-31342716.html

A Catholic school principal and ex-GAA star has praised the outreach and educational work of the Orange Order.


Jarlath Burns - a former captain of the Armagh team - recently visited two refurbished Orange Order museums, at Sloan's House in Loughgall and Schomberg House in Belfast, with pupils from his school.
And the south Armagh headmaster hit out at those who complained that an Irish tricolour was not flown at the reopening of the Belfast facility. He said: "Why would we ever expect to see an Irish tricolour outside the headquarters of the Orange Order? We wouldn't expect to see a Union flag at a GAA match. Those things would be very difficult for people to accept."
He added: "I think the real story was that the museum was opened by former Irish President Mary McAleese and her husband Martin, that the word 'Failte' - 'Welcome' in Irish - was prominently displayed and that the first schoolchildren through the doors were from a Catholic school in south Armagh.

"These are positive stories about people genuinely wanting to reach out to the other community.
"I commend the work that the Orange Order is doing in reaching out through the schools. David Scott, who is leading this outreach, has been welcomed in my school several times over the past two or three years and has also been involved with a number of other Catholic schools in south Armagh."
He said he was surprised at how happy people seemed to be with his attendance at the Sloan's House event.

"I found the experience interesting and the museum explains the part this building played in the formation of the Orange Order after the Battle of the Diamond," he said.
"Unless we start re-imagining a relationship with each other and do it through education, I don't think we are really going anywhere. We certainly are not at the moment."

He admitted during an interview on Radio Ulster's Talkback programme that coming from south Armagh, where there has not been any Orange Order marches, made it easier for him to consider reaching out to the other community. "However, we all have to rethink how we view the other community," he said.
"This year the Twelfth celebrations in Armagh are being held in Bessbrook and I want any of my pupils in the town to know that the people taking part in those celebrations are not bad people. They must realise that the Twelfth is part of their culture and that their flag and their Britishness is important to them. I would like unionists to come to a deeper understanding of the GAA, the organisation to which I belong, and recognise what is important to us."

Mr Burns added: "We cannot change the past but we can rethink how we can share the future. We have to become comfortable with feeling uncomfortable. We have to reach out. This should not be shock territory for anyone."

He pointed out that many people who had been bereaved by the Troubles felt that when the ceasefires were announced and the Good Friday Agreement signed that perhaps their loved ones had not died in vain, but had helped to produce a semblance of normality.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Insane Bolt on July 12, 2018, 09:18:57 PM
That article is 3 years old, be interested to get Jarlath's take on how the outreach is working out.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 12, 2018, 09:19:31 PM
Sport can unite but the Orange Order is not a branch of the Armagh supporters club. It is a sectarian organisation whose identity is based on the fact that it isn't Catholic . I was disappointed when I saw the news.

And despite this a southern catholic was greeted warmly at the parade, illustrating the ability of sport to unite.

Would Neil Lennon have been as warmly welcomed?

Probably not, but then he is filming a "documentary outlining how Rugby as a sport unifies the country"

Perhaps someone should film a documentary entitled how the orange order/the twelfth/marching divides society in the North.

BOD's sugar coated documentary will be shown on tv3 or somewhere, and southerners with no idea of the North will think... ach, those Orangemen and their quirky customs. Why don't Catholics just leave them alone. Sure they're a harmless bunch.

Complete tpsser. Lost all respect for him.

So you’ve watched the documentary?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: seafoid on July 12, 2018, 09:29:49 PM
The OO's parades have the anthropological purpose of showing who is in charge and don't reflect changing demographics . Kerry, Limerick and Wicklow all had Loyal Orange Lodges in the 1800s before the politics changed. There is a prominent statue in Wicklow town to a Mr Robert Halpin who was a Unionist businessman and great bunch of lads.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: seafoid on July 12, 2018, 10:25:14 PM
http://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/1349013/1/DX201555.pdf
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: tippabu on July 12, 2018, 10:36:26 PM
http://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/1349013/1/DX201555.pdf

with a bit of luck ill get all that read in time for next years!!
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 12, 2018, 10:39:39 PM
http://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/1349013/1/DX201555.pdf

with a bit of luck ill get all that read in time for next years!!
Did you watch the documentary BOD did?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Therealdonald on July 12, 2018, 10:46:02 PM
Sport can unite but the Orange Order is not a branch of the Armagh supporters club. It is a sectarian organisation whose identity is based on the fact that it isn't Catholic . I was disappointed when I saw the news.

And despite this a southern catholic was greeted warmly at the parade, illustrating the ability of sport to unite.

Would Neil Lennon have been as warmly welcomed?

Probably not, but then he is filming a "documentary outlining how Rugby as a sport unifies the country"

Perhaps someone should film a documentary entitled how the orange order/the twelfth/marching divides society in the North.

BOD's sugar coated documentary will be shown on tv3 or somewhere, and southerners with no idea of the North will think... ach, those Orangemen and their quirky customs. Why don't Catholics just leave them alone. Sure they're a harmless bunch.

Complete tpsser. Lost all respect for him.

So you’ve watched the documentary?

Don't need to. Any self respecting Irishman that finds himself holding a lambeg drum with an Orangeman emblazoned on the front of it on the 12th, well I'm afraid he's just another Uncle Tom in my book.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 12, 2018, 10:55:23 PM
Sport can unite but the Orange Order is not a branch of the Armagh supporters club. It is a sectarian organisation whose identity is based on the fact that it isn't Catholic . I was disappointed when I saw the news.

And despite this a southern catholic was greeted warmly at the parade, illustrating the ability of sport to unite.

Would Neil Lennon have been as warmly welcomed?

Probably not, but then he is filming a "documentary outlining how Rugby as a sport unifies the country"

Perhaps someone should film a documentary entitled how the orange order/the twelfth/marching divides society in the North.

BOD's sugar coated documentary will be shown on tv3 or somewhere, and southerners with no idea of the North will think... ach, those Orangemen and their quirky customs. Why don't Catholics just leave them alone. Sure they're a harmless bunch.

Complete tpsser. Lost all respect for him.

So you’ve watched the documentary?

Don't need to. Any self respecting Irishman that finds himself holding a lambeg drum with an Orangeman emblazoned on the front of it on the 12th, well I'm afraid he's just another Uncle Tom in my book.

Ah, so context doesn’t count? You’ve made your mind up regardless, I see no different to a orange bitter fecker than you
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Rois on July 12, 2018, 11:01:36 PM
The OO's parades have the anthropological purpose of showing who is in charge and don't reflect changing demographics . Kerry, Limerick and Wicklow all had Loyal Orange Lodges in the 1800s before the politics changed. There is a prominent statue in Wicklow town to a Mr Robert Halpin who was a Unionist businessman and great bunch of lads.
Seafoid - you said on another thread that the two communities in NI were as polarised as ever based on political survey results.  Do you believe that, the OO is really so out of touch with demographics?

The polarisation you referred to previously suggests not.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: seafoid on July 12, 2018, 11:22:49 PM
The OO's parades have the anthropological purpose of showing who is in charge and don't reflect changing demographics . Kerry, Limerick and Wicklow all had Loyal Orange Lodges in the 1800s before the politics changed. There is a prominent statue in Wicklow town to a Mr Robert Halpin who was a Unionist businessman and great bunch of lads.
Seafoid - you said on another thread that the two communities in NI were as polarised as ever based on political survey results.  Do you believe that, the OO is really so out of touch with demographics?

The polarisation you referred to previously suggests not.
Rois

According to that academic report above the Orange Order is a key institution in the maintenance of sectarianism.
The demographics mean that Unionists will be a minority after a while . A peacock style outfit will not be suitable.
NI will need institutions that bring people together. On top of everything else.   
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Therealdonald on July 13, 2018, 12:02:55 AM
Sport can unite but the Orange Order is not a branch of the Armagh supporters club. It is a sectarian organisation whose identity is based on the fact that it isn't Catholic . I was disappointed when I saw the news.

And despite this a southern catholic was greeted warmly at the parade, illustrating the ability of sport to unite.

Would Neil Lennon have been as warmly welcomed?

Probably not, but then he is filming a "documentary outlining how Rugby as a sport unifies the country"

Perhaps someone should film a documentary entitled how the orange order/the twelfth/marching divides society in the North.

BOD's sugar coated documentary will be shown on tv3 or somewhere, and southerners with no idea of the North will think... ach, those Orangemen and their quirky customs. Why don't Catholics just leave them alone. Sure they're a harmless bunch.

Complete tpsser. Lost all respect for him.

So you’ve watched the documentary?

Don't need to. Any self respecting Irishman that finds himself holding a lambeg drum with an Orangeman emblazoned on the front of it on the 12th, well I'm afraid he's just another Uncle Tom in my book.'s

Ah, so context doesn’t count? You’ve made your mind up regardless, I see no different to a orange bitter fecker than you

What is the context MR2? I don't see how it's acceptable in any context? If BOD went to a KKK meeting in Mississippi (closest organisation to OO in practice) and we got a snapshot of him in a white outfit and a white hood, are we to ask black people to wait and see the show for in what context he was wearing it?

There's showing an acceptance, there's making an offer of an olive branch to the other side, then there's making a serious PR miscalculation which O'Driscoll has done here. Same as McIlroy with his Londonderry, he's dropped the ball in a serious way.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: straightred on July 13, 2018, 12:26:24 AM
Sport can unite but the Orange Order is not a branch of the Armagh supporters club. It is a sectarian organisation whose identity is based on the fact that it isn't Catholic . I was disappointed when I saw the news.

And despite this a southern catholic was greeted warmly at the parade, illustrating the ability of sport to unite.

Would Neil Lennon have been as warmly welcomed?

Probably not, but then he is filming a "documentary outlining how Rugby as a sport unifies the country"

Perhaps someone should film a documentary entitled how the orange order/the twelfth/marching divides society in the North.

BOD's sugar coated documentary will be shown on tv3 or somewhere, and southerners with no idea of the North will think... ach, those Orangemen and their quirky customs. Why don't Catholics just leave them alone. Sure they're a harmless bunch.

Complete tpsser. Lost all respect for him.

So you’ve watched the documentary?

Don't need to. Any self respecting Irishman that finds himself holding a lambeg drum with an Orangeman emblazoned on the front of it on the 12th, well I'm afraid he's just another Uncle Tom in my book.'s

Ah, so context doesn’t count? You’ve made your mind up regardless, I see no different to a orange bitter fecker than you

What is the context MR2? I don't see how it's acceptable in any context? If BOD went to a KKK meeting in Mississippi (closest organisation to OO in practice) and we got a snapshot of him in a white outfit and a white hood, are we to ask black people to wait and see the show for in what context he was wearing it?

There's showing an acceptance, there's making an offer of an olive branch to the other side, then there's making a serious PR miscalculation which O'Driscoll has done here. Same as McIlroy with his Londonderry, he's dropped the ball in a serious way.
There's no acceptable explanation. I don't know what he was trying to prove but it failed miserably. The OO are what they are. Some of us understand that. He obviously doesn't. By indulging them he implies that their behavior is acceptable. 
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: stephenite on July 13, 2018, 12:36:01 AM
A man who captained the British & Irish Lions.

A man who captained an Irish team that plays alternate anthems to respect other team mates culture.

A man who is doing a documentary on how sport unifies.

Using his profile to reach out to those more progressive in the OO is the next logical step, and the right time, and person to do it surely?

I am sure there’s another discussion forum where hardcore OO members are frothing at the mouth that a fenian held one of their sacred drums, small steps required on both sides for normalisation
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Therealdonald on July 13, 2018, 12:46:35 AM
A man who captained the British & Irish Lions.

A man who captained an Irish team that plays alternate anthems to respect other team mates culture.

A man who is doing a documentary on how sport unifies.

Using his profile to reach out to those more progressive in the OO is the next logical step, and the right time, and person to do it surely?

I am sure there’s another discussion forum where hardcore OO members are frothing at the mouth that a fenian held one of their sacred drums, small steps required on both sides for normalisation

Just realised there where O'Driscoll was attending the parade...Loughgall. All the Tyrone and Armagh contingent on here will especially recognise the significance of this
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: stephenite on July 13, 2018, 01:09:07 AM
A man who captained the British & Irish Lions.

A man who captained an Irish team that plays alternate anthems to respect other team mates culture.

A man who is doing a documentary on how sport unifies.

Using his profile to reach out to those more progressive in the OO is the next logical step, and the right time, and person to do it surely?

I am sure there’s another discussion forum where hardcore OO members are frothing at the mouth that a fenian held one of their sacred drums, small steps required on both sides for normalisation

Just realised there where O'Driscoll was attending the parade...Loughgall. All the Tyrone and Armagh contingent on here will especially recognise the significance of this

I have no doubt the location of the parade was deliberately chosen.

Do you think it was deliberately chosen to rile up those who might be offended, or do you think it was deliberately chosen as a symbol of what can be achieved over time in healing divisions?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: balladmaker on July 13, 2018, 01:28:12 AM
I wonder how many in the OO remembered these three young lads yesterday on the 20th Anniversary of their deaths, they should have been in their late 20’s and early 30’s now ...

https://goo.gl/images/4HAcvp (https://goo.gl/images/4HAcvp)
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: stephenite on July 13, 2018, 01:32:04 AM
I wonder how many in the OO remembered these three young lads yesterday on the 20th Anniversary of their deaths, they should have been in their late 20’s and early 30’s now ...




A shameful and tragic story. Lots of them on both sides unfortunately.

I understand the aim of the documentary is to promote sport as a means of unifying both traditions.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Farrandeelin on July 13, 2018, 05:50:38 AM
I wonder how many in the OO remembered these three young lads yesterday on the 20th Anniversary of their deaths, they should have been in their late 20’s and early 30’s now ...

https://goo.gl/images/4HAcvp (https://goo.gl/images/4HAcvp)

A fair few I'd say.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 13, 2018, 07:49:05 AM
Sport can unite but the Orange Order is not a branch of the Armagh supporters club. It is a sectarian organisation whose identity is based on the fact that it isn't Catholic . I was disappointed when I saw the news.

And despite this a southern catholic was greeted warmly at the parade, illustrating the ability of sport to unite.

Would Neil Lennon have been as warmly welcomed?

Probably not, but then he is filming a "documentary outlining how Rugby as a sport unifies the country"

Perhaps someone should film a documentary entitled how the orange order/the twelfth/marching divides society in the North.

BOD's sugar coated documentary will be shown on tv3 or somewhere, and southerners with no idea of the North will think... ach, those Orangemen and their quirky customs. Why don't Catholics just leave them alone. Sure they're a harmless bunch.

Complete tpsser. Lost all respect for him.

So you’ve watched the documentary?

Don't need to. Any self respecting Irishman that finds himself holding a lambeg drum with an Orangeman emblazoned on the front of it on the 12th, well I'm afraid he's just another Uncle Tom in my book.'s

Ah, so context doesn’t count? You’ve made your mind up regardless, I see no different to a orange bitter fecker than you

What is the context MR2? I don't see how it's acceptable in any context? If BOD went to a KKK meeting in Mississippi (closest organisation to OO in practice) and we got a snapshot of him in a white outfit and a white hood, are we to ask black people to wait and see the show for in what context he was wearing it?

There's showing an acceptance, there's making an offer of an olive branch to the other side, then there's making a serious PR miscalculation which O'Driscoll has done here. Same as McIlroy with his Londonderry, he's dropped the ball in a serious way.


You have watched Louis Theroux docs? He manages to meet and understand groups far worse than the OO

I’ll wait till it comes out before I’ll pass judgement
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Insane Bolt on July 13, 2018, 08:39:40 AM
Do we need a documentary to tell us that sport can bring people together from different backgrounds?
I can't see any connection between sport and the orange order.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: screenexile on July 13, 2018, 08:42:38 AM
Do we need a documentary to tell us that sport can bring people together from different backgrounds?
I can't see any connection between sport and the orange order.

Why don’t we just wait until the documentary comes out so we can see the substance of it and make an informed deci.... lol nah fuckit they’re all c***ts who cares  ::) ::)
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Insane Bolt on July 13, 2018, 08:52:58 AM
Do we need a documentary to tell us that sport can bring people together from different backgrounds?
I can't see any connection between sport and the orange order.

Why don’t we just wait until the documentary comes out so we can see the substance of it and make an informed deci.... lol nah fuckit they’re all c***ts who cares  ::) ::)

Who said they were all c**ts? I played alongside guys who were members of the OO, they were very uncomfortable when I would slag them about playing with a fenian😂
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: seafoid on July 13, 2018, 09:03:39 AM
I don't think a rugby player is the best to try to bridge the divide. Rugby is there already. Unionists and Orange Order members have always played on Irish rugby teams. Some of the greatest Irish players came from Ulster.
The problem is elsewhere.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: LooseCannon on July 13, 2018, 09:42:47 AM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Tweed
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: RetiredRessie on July 13, 2018, 09:47:01 AM
Really baffles me sometimes how out of touch some southern Catholics/nationalists are with our situation up in the North.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Rossfan on July 13, 2018, 09:50:20 AM
Whatever about Dublin 4 O'Driscoll did the knuckledraggers manage to burn any of their Hell holes ?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Hardy on July 13, 2018, 10:07:14 AM
At least nobody has (yet) trotted out the abhorrent suggested equivalence of the OO and the GAA. I'll reserve judgement on what may be an ill-advised photo call until I see the documentary, but the KKK comparison is valid and the continued attempts to confer respectability on the OO bemuse me.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Walter Cronc on July 13, 2018, 10:15:08 AM
Whatever about Dublin 4 O'Driscoll did the knuckledraggers manage to burn any of their Hell holes ?

BOD isn't from D4. His parents are doctors, does that make him posh? I've doctors in my family and we aren't posh.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Franko on July 13, 2018, 11:02:34 AM
At least nobody has (yet) trotted out the abhorrent suggested equivalence of the OO and the GAA. I'll reserve judgement on what may be an ill-advised photo call until I see the documentary, but the KKK comparison is valid and the continued attempts to confer respectability on the OO bemuse me.

Sums it up perfectly as far as I can see.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 13, 2018, 11:05:49 AM
The OO is a dying breed, bit like the KKK...membership falling every year and less and less people interested in their views...I wouldn’t be worried about them
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Walt Jabsco on July 13, 2018, 12:02:13 PM
Are they a dying breed? They probably are.  I was on Sash Watch last night viewing the highlights to see could I recognize anyone. But what stood out for me was a lot of the interviewees were at pains to point out the growth in the number of lodges as if to give the impression that all was healthy in the OO this may not be the case.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: seafoid on July 13, 2018, 12:05:16 PM
One of the things King Billy fought against was the divine right of Kings which is the right of the king to make up the law to suit himself. And Trump with his presidential pardon is aiming for something similar. We are living in a very strange time.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on July 13, 2018, 12:38:13 PM
Are they a dying breed? They probably are.  I was on Sash Watch last night viewing the highlights to see could I recognize anyone. But what stood out for me was a lot of the interviewees were at pains to point out the growth in the number of lodges as if to give the impression that all was healthy in the OO this may not be the case.

Take the bands out of the equation and you will see the number of Lol ‘walkers’ and you will see the numbers dwindling each year.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Walt Jabsco on July 13, 2018, 12:56:45 PM
Agreed that the number of walkers seems to be dwindling I seen some LOLs have about half a dozen or so behind the banner on the flip side Ballyveagh (Kilkeel) had some 240 behind their banner.
However a lot of the band members would also be OO members but a lot don't wear their regalia while playing in the band although some do this would put a more realistic view of the membership numbers of the OO if they all wore sashes.

Not far from me there are two OO halls that are about a mile from one another on the same road - both are currently being renovated/extended probably from the "community" funding promoted by the  DUP former minister of DCAL. There are probably more of these projects underway but the close proximity of these two stood out for me
     
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 13, 2018, 05:20:25 PM
Rioting in Derry it seems over the 12th, must have been non associated groups, thugs
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Jayop on July 13, 2018, 05:25:31 PM
The video of the wee toe rag throwing the petrol bomb at the windscreen of a passing random van was pretty bad. Quite literally could have killed a random innocent guy going about his daily business. It absolutely wouldn't be ok regardless of who he was throwing it at but to do so in the bogside means it was very likely it was another nationalist. Absolute whoopers.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 13, 2018, 05:30:56 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-44816025
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Walter Cronc on July 13, 2018, 05:33:25 PM
And ppl wonder why us good South Derry folk hate going to Celtic Park.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Tony Baloney on July 13, 2018, 05:54:29 PM
Is the Derry stuff co-ordniated or is it just a shower of wee b**tards off school with little else to do?
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 13, 2018, 06:02:43 PM
Is the Derry stuff co-ordniated or is it just a shower of wee b**tards off school with little else to do?

Didn’t look like kids, unless they go to college... BOD should have went there instead
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Insane Bolt on July 13, 2018, 06:33:52 PM
Is the Derry stuff co-ordniated or is it just a shower of wee b**tards off school with little else to do?

Didn’t look like kids, unless they go to college... BOD should have went there instead

No point, sure Rory is uniting them all up there😜
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 13, 2018, 06:42:33 PM
Is the Derry stuff co-ordniated or is it just a shower of wee b**tards off school with little else to do?

Didn’t look like kids, unless they go to college... BOD should have went there instead

No point, sure Rory is uniting them all up there😜

That’s probably why the rug rats have been rioting! They are that thick, that mimicking themuns is the way forward. God bless them.. we’ve a great knack of shooting ourselves in the foot!
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: dec on July 13, 2018, 07:01:29 PM
Are they a dying breed? They probably are.  I was on Sash Watch last night viewing the highlights to see could I recognize anyone. But what stood out for me was a lot of the interviewees were at pains to point out the growth in the number of lodges as if to give the impression that all was healthy in the OO this may not be the case.

Take the bands out of the equation and you will see the number of Lol ‘walkers’ and you will see the numbers dwindling each year.

The Belfast Telegraph used to go with a standard "100,000 walk" headline every year.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Jayop on July 13, 2018, 07:19:15 PM
Is the Derry stuff co-ordniated or is it just a shower of wee b**tards off school with little else to do?

Didn’t look like kids, unless they go to college... BOD should have went there instead

No point, sure Rory is uniting them all up there😜

That’s probably why the rug rats have been rioting! They are that thick, that mimicking themuns is the way forward. God bless them.. we’ve a great knack of shooting ourselves in the foot!

Big time. Pictures going around last year of bonfires with union jacks and DUP posters on them. Fecking idiots don't seem to realise that by doing that you immediately lose any high ground you have.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: HiMucker on July 13, 2018, 07:45:53 PM
Is the Derry stuff co-ordniated or is it just a shower of wee b**tards off school with little else to do?

Didn’t look like kids, unless they go to college... BOD should have went there instead

No point, sure Rory is uniting them all up there😜

That’s probably why the rug rats have been rioting! They are that thick, that mimicking themuns is the way forward. God bless them.. we’ve a great knack of shooting ourselves in the foot!

Big time. Pictures going around last year of bonfires with union jacks and DUP posters on them. Fecking idiots don't seem to realise that by doing that you immediately lose any high ground you have.
They wouldn't give two f**ks about losing high ground.  Quite frankly they wouldn't know what the high ground is.  They simply haven't a clue and are only too glad to act out being scumbags at the behest of dissidents.  They couldn't tell you why they are doing even if they tried.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Jayop on July 13, 2018, 08:46:31 PM
Aye you're not wrong at all man. It's just so counter productive that it's obvious that they don't know what they're doing at all.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 13, 2018, 09:50:57 PM
Aye you're not wrong at all man. It's just so counter productive that it's obvious that they don't know what they're doing at all.

The dissidents know fine well what they are doing
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 14, 2018, 09:45:39 PM
Are they a dying breed? They probably are.  I was on Sash Watch last night viewing the highlights to see could I recognize anyone. But what stood out for me was a lot of the interviewees were at pains to point out the growth in the number of lodges as if to give the impression that all was healthy in the OO this may not be the case.

Take the bands out of the equation and you will see the number of Lol ‘walkers’ and you will see the numbers dwindling each year.

Sorry if I've already mentioned this but on the road where I grew up (in a mixed area) there was a parade once or twice every year. All the fenians on the road just sat in the house when they passed, shut the curtains, and passed no remarks. The parades dwindled every year to the point where it all but disappeared. I think there were years when there was no march.
Title: Re: 11th night bonfires
Post by: Applesisapples on July 16, 2018, 03:09:50 PM
And Willie McBride?
Written by a Scot living in Australia, Eric Bogle, also wrote The leaving of Nancy and The Band Played Waltzing Matilda oh and an ironic ditty called I Hate Wogs, which parodies racism, took the Aussies a while to cop to that one.