gaaboard.com

Non GAA Discussion => General discussion => Topic started by: Angelo on February 15, 2021, 03:44:43 PM

Title: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 15, 2021, 03:44:43 PM
Great to see Clare Daly's speech to the EU last week about how Western propaganda is consistently spread in by the political classes and media outlets of capitalist states.

Navalny seems to be the last thug the US are trying to use to act as an unsettling force in a state with vast natural resources.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 15, 2021, 03:49:49 PM
This is a good one, expect it to go well Angelo.

Something Vlad himself has put out there recently from our ever so reliable friends at Sky

https://news.sky.com/video/vladimir-putin-suggests-alexei-navalny-is-being-used-by-the-west-12218177

The rumours of Putin demise were also it appear, premature.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 15, 2021, 03:59:40 PM
This is a good one, expect it to go well Angelo.

Something Vlad himself has put out there recently from our ever so reliable friends at Sky

https://news.sky.com/video/vladimir-putin-suggests-alexei-navalny-is-being-used-by-the-west-12218177

The rumours of Putin demise were also it appear, premature.

If you look at the course of history Russia has nearly always been on the right side in any great conflict.

When the yanks were busy arming and supporting the likes of Saddam, Bin Laden, ISIS, Pinochet etc Russia were railing against that.

 
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 15, 2021, 04:03:19 PM
This is a good one, expect it to go well Angelo.

Something Vlad himself has put out there recently from our ever so reliable friends at Sky

https://news.sky.com/video/vladimir-putin-suggests-alexei-navalny-is-being-used-by-the-west-12218177

The rumours of Putin demise were also it appear, premature.

If you look at the course of history Russia has nearly always been on the right side in any great conflict.

When the yanks were busy arming and supporting the likes of Saddam, Bin Laden, ISIS, Pinochet etc Russia were railing against that.

More importantly how are they getting on with Covid? Are their numbers correct? And during the 17/18 flu winter was their any excess deaths?
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 15, 2021, 05:08:39 PM
A link to Clare Daly's speech mentioned earlier. Well worth a minute and a half of your time.

https://twitter.com/dikkenf12/status/1359575467200827404

It's great to see the left in the EU bringing this issue or Russophobia to light. The western propaganda regarding Russia must stop, it is nothing short of blatant racism and those who engage in it should be called out for the racists they are.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 15, 2021, 05:20:58 PM
is the use of the words racism and racists correct here?
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 15, 2021, 05:52:58 PM
is the use of the words racism and racists correct here?

Yes.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: bennydorano on February 15, 2021, 06:30:37 PM
I would have thought the previous 10 page thread about Russia would have sufficed?

No doubt you're trying to bait Sid.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: armaghniac on February 15, 2021, 06:38:44 PM
An American and a Russian are arguing about which country has more freedom. The American says, ďI can walk right up to the White House and shout 'Down with Donald Trump!' and nothing bad will happen to me.Ē The Russian replies, ďGuess what? I can walk in front of Kremlin and shout 'Down with Donald Trump!' and nothing will happen to me either.Ē
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 15, 2021, 06:57:45 PM
I would have thought the previous 10 page thread about Russia would have sufficed?

No doubt you're trying to bait Sid.

I think Russophobia is a very relevant topic, do you not find the commentary driven by the right wing media of the Western states to be utterly disgraceful?

Time and time again we have heard from the West about the dangers of Russia, I'll tell you this if you have any comprehension of history or current affairs you will find that the Russians have generally been on the right side of the wars and conflicts.

When you look at the middle east and the role of The West, arming the likes of Saddam, Bin Laden, ISIS in recent years. You look at the West in Central America and South America, consistently putting blood thirsty fascist dictators in place. You look at the role of the west in Africa, more blood thirsty puppet figures in control so they can pillage natural resources. There's a trend here, the west consistently meddle in the affairs of foreign countries, put in their puppet figure, usually some tyrannical fascist nutjob who will implement American policy until such time as they go rogue and America again goes meddling to put in another puppet figure.

The way I see it.

Iran - good guys - Russian support, American opposition
Saudi - bad guys - Russian opposition, American support
Israel - bad guys - Russian opposition, American support
Palestine - good guys - Russian support, American opposition
Cuba - good guys - Russian support, American opposition
etc etc

Yet the Western media is always in full on propaganda mode.

Look at the propaganda between Putin and Obama in the West. Putin is portrayed as a tyrant while Obama is viewed as a groundbreaking statesman.

Russophobia is a major problem in Western Society, would you not agree?

Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: seafoid on February 15, 2021, 07:00:18 PM
Putin is a tyrant.
I wouldn't have much time for Obama either.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: lenny on February 15, 2021, 07:02:30 PM
An American and a Russian are arguing about which country has more freedom. The American says, ďI can walk right up to the White House and shout 'Down with Donald Trump!' and nothing bad will happen to me.Ē The Russian replies, ďGuess what? I can walk in front of Kremlin and shout 'Down with Donald Trump!' and nothing will happen to me either.Ē

Putin would not be happy with anyone insulting agent Trump.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: five points on February 15, 2021, 07:05:32 PM
Putin is indeed a tyrant but compared to Russian tyrants throughout history, he's one of the more benign ones. I hope and pray that his successor will be likewise. I don't expect much improvement. It's a terribly dysfunctional country.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 15, 2021, 07:08:59 PM
I see people are still being fooled by Western propaganda.

Who did the Kurds side with in the middle east? The Russians and Syria? Why, because when it comes to Obama and Putin, it's the Russians that have far, far more integrity.

Some of you guys really need to open your minds and learn some history. We have an awful lot to be grateful for Russia down the years that have fought bravely against American fascism.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 15, 2021, 07:16:53 PM
Putin seems to have done well, for himself, estimated at 70 billion..

Does he share that out? Or is Communism finished?

As for Covid they have nearly 40k deaths less than the uk. They must be doing something right, like India
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 15, 2021, 07:20:46 PM
Putin seems to have done well, for himself, estimated at 70 billion..

Does he share that out? Or is Communism finished?

As for Covid they have nearly 40k deaths less than the uk. They must be doing something right, like India

The problem for all you guys is you take Western propaganda as gospel.

The same media outlets who will justify the Israelis blowing up hospitals in the Palestine.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 15, 2021, 07:25:04 PM
Putin seems to have done well, for himself, estimated at 70 billion..

Does he share that out? Or is Communism finished?

As for Covid they have nearly 40k deaths less than the uk. They must be doing something right, like India

The problem for all you guys is you take Western propaganda as gospel.

The same media outlets who will justify the Israelis blowing up hospitals in the Palestine.

How much is he worth?

Do you believe the figures for Covid in Russia?

As for the last part Iíve no idea what youíre on about if you, is that a question you want me to answer?
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: tonto1888 on February 15, 2021, 07:30:05 PM
Putin seems to have done well, for himself, estimated at 70 billion..

Does he share that out? Or is Communism finished?

As for Covid they have nearly 40k deaths less than the uk. They must be doing something right, like India

Maybe a different debate but I think communism is a good political theory . However, human nature in general doesnít lend itself to delivering it. Same can be said to a lesser degree of socialism
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 15, 2021, 07:34:01 PM
Putin seems to have done well, for himself, estimated at 70 billion..

Does he share that out? Or is Communism finished?

As for Covid they have nearly 40k deaths less than the uk. They must be doing something right, like India

The problem for all you guys is you take Western propaganda as gospel.

The same media outlets who will justify the Israelis blowing up hospitals in the Palestine.

How much is he worth?

Do you believe the figures for Covid in Russia?

As for the last part Iíve no idea what youíre on about if you, is that a question you want me to answer?

I don't know but I certainly don't believe the Western media, they have shown itself to engage in nothing but propaganda when it comes to its reporting on Russia.

Why has West supported guys like Bin Laden, Saddam, ISIS when it comes to them plotting against Russia in proxy wars?
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 15, 2021, 07:55:08 PM
Putin seems to have done well, for himself, estimated at 70 billion..

Does he share that out? Or is Communism finished?

As for Covid they have nearly 40k deaths less than the uk. They must be doing something right, like India

The problem for all you guys is you take Western propaganda as gospel.

The same media outlets who will justify the Israelis blowing up hospitals in the Palestine.

How much is he worth?

Do you believe the figures for Covid in Russia?

As for the last part Iíve no idea what youíre on about if you, is that a question you want me to answer?

I don't know but I certainly don't believe the Western media, they have shown itself to engage in nothing but propaganda when it comes to its reporting on Russia.

Why has West supported guys like Bin Laden, Saddam, ISIS when it comes to them plotting against Russia in proxy wars?

Because at the time they were fighting the Russians during the Cold War, think it all changed after 9/11, Iím not sure, but Russia was changed after the revolution and Churchill was the main politician preaching how Ďbadí the Russians were.

Personally Iím not interested in politics, even on this hod forsaken place. But I would say when you have a £500 million boat youíre doing alright for a £133000 year job
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 15, 2021, 08:11:43 PM
Putin seems to have done well, for himself, estimated at 70 billion..

Does he share that out? Or is Communism finished?

As for Covid they have nearly 40k deaths less than the uk. They must be doing something right, like India

The problem for all you guys is you take Western propaganda as gospel.

The same media outlets who will justify the Israelis blowing up hospitals in the Palestine.

How much is he worth?

Do you believe the figures for Covid in Russia?

As for the last part Iíve no idea what youíre on about if you, is that a question you want me to answer?

I don't know but I certainly don't believe the Western media, they have shown itself to engage in nothing but propaganda when it comes to its reporting on Russia.

Why has West supported guys like Bin Laden, Saddam, ISIS when it comes to them plotting against Russia in proxy wars?

Because at the time they were fighting the Russians during the Cold War, think it all changed after 9/11, Iím not sure, but Russia was changed after the revolution and Churchill was the main politician preaching how Ďbadí the Russians were.

Personally Iím not interested in politics, even on this hod forsaken place. But I would say when you have a £500 million boat youíre doing alright for a £133000 year job

How did it change after 9/11?

Who was it that armed ISIS? Give a guess.

As for Putin's 500m boat, there you go again - taking western propaganda as gospel.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 15, 2021, 08:14:42 PM
Putin seems to have done well, for himself, estimated at 70 billion..

Does he share that out? Or is Communism finished?

As for Covid they have nearly 40k deaths less than the uk. They must be doing something right, like India

The problem for all you guys is you take Western propaganda as gospel.

The same media outlets who will justify the Israelis blowing up hospitals in the Palestine.

How much is he worth?

Do you believe the figures for Covid in Russia?

As for the last part Iíve no idea what youíre on about if you, is that a question you want me to answer?

I don't know but I certainly don't believe the Western media, they have shown itself to engage in nothing but propaganda when it comes to its reporting on Russia.

Why has West supported guys like Bin Laden, Saddam, ISIS when it comes to them plotting against Russia in proxy wars?

Because at the time they were fighting the Russians during the Cold War, think it all changed after 9/11, Iím not sure, but Russia was changed after the revolution and Churchill was the main politician preaching how Ďbadí the Russians were.

Personally Iím not interested in politics, even on this hod forsaken place. But I would say when you have a £500 million boat youíre doing alright for a £133000 year job

How did it change after 9/11?

Who was it that armed ISIS? Give a guess.

As for Putin's 500m boat, there you go again - taking western propaganda as gospel.

Irresponsible arms transfers by countries including the UK, USA, Russia, China, Germany and France have provided the armed group with a huge and lethal arsenal.

For years, weapons of war have been freely flowing into Iraq. Slack controls over Iraqi military stockpiles and endemic corruption by successive Iraqi governments have added to the problem.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Louther on February 15, 2021, 08:16:06 PM
How do you come up with them  ;D ;D

Add another to the list of things than Angelo rants about but doesnít give a shite about:
Russia
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 15, 2021, 08:17:15 PM
Putin seems to have done well, for himself, estimated at 70 billion..

Does he share that out? Or is Communism finished?

As for Covid they have nearly 40k deaths less than the uk. They must be doing something right, like India

The problem for all you guys is you take Western propaganda as gospel.

The same media outlets who will justify the Israelis blowing up hospitals in the Palestine.

How much is he worth?

Do you believe the figures for Covid in Russia?

As for the last part Iíve no idea what youíre on about if you, is that a question you want me to answer?

I don't know but I certainly don't believe the Western media, they have shown itself to engage in nothing but propaganda when it comes to its reporting on Russia.

Why has West supported guys like Bin Laden, Saddam, ISIS when it comes to them plotting against Russia in proxy wars?

Because at the time they were fighting the Russians during the Cold War, think it all changed after 9/11, Iím not sure, but Russia was changed after the revolution and Churchill was the main politician preaching how Ďbadí the Russians were.

Personally Iím not interested in politics, even on this hod forsaken place. But I would say when you have a £500 million boat youíre doing alright for a £133000 year job

How did it change after 9/11?

Who was it that armed ISIS? Give a guess.

As for Putin's 500m boat, there you go again - taking western propaganda as gospel.

Irresponsible arms transfers by countries including the UK, USA, Russia, China, Germany and France have provided the armed group with a huge and lethal arsenal.

For years, weapons of war have been freely flowing into Iraq. Slack controls over Iraqi military stockpiles and endemic corruption by successive Iraqi governments have added to the problem.

More to do with the CIA arming and training rebels who then formed ISIS - google Timber Sycamore.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 15, 2021, 08:18:03 PM
That came from amnesty international. Iíll take their word for it thanks
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 15, 2021, 08:19:32 PM
That came from amnesty international. Iíll take their word for it thanks

So you don't want to broaden you knowledge?

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33997408
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 15, 2021, 08:20:35 PM
That came from amnesty international. Iíll take their word for it thanks

So you don't want to broaden you knowledge?

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33997408

Are you saying amnesty international are wrong?
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 15, 2021, 08:22:33 PM
That came from amnesty international. Iíll take their word for it thanks

So you don't want to broaden you knowledge?

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33997408

Are you saying amnesty international are wrong?

Well if they are denying that the US armed and trained Syrian rebels who went on to form ISIS then they most certainly are wrong.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 15, 2021, 08:25:10 PM
That came from amnesty international. Iíll take their word for it thanks

So you don't want to broaden you knowledge?

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33997408

Are you saying amnesty international are wrong?

Well if they are denying that the US armed and trained Syrian rebels who went on to form ISIS then they most certainly are wrong.

Did you read it? They said countries like USA, UK, France, China, Germany, Russia and so on, plus the fall of Iraq
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 15, 2021, 08:27:16 PM
That came from amnesty international. Iíll take their word for it thanks

So you don't want to broaden you knowledge?

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33997408

Are you saying amnesty international are wrong?

Well if they are denying that the US armed and trained Syrian rebels who went on to form ISIS then they most certainly are wrong.

Did you read it? They said countries like USA, UK, France, China, Germany, Russia and so on, plus the fall of Iraq

So you're denying the CIA armed and trained Syrian rebels that joined ISIS?
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 15, 2021, 08:31:20 PM
Iím just telling you that the USA was on the list I gave you! Now youíre a smart lad. USA
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 15, 2021, 08:35:30 PM
Iím just telling you that the USA was on the list I gave you! Now youíre a smart lad. USA

You claimed it was black market.

But the formation of ISIS had lots to do American foreign policy of stirring up tensions in the middle east, arming rebels to overthrow a regime for capitalist reasons.

Look at how the Americans back Israel and the Saudis, why do they prop these states up and all the civil injustices and war crimes they commit.

Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 15, 2021, 08:40:15 PM
Amnesty international said this, endemic corruption. They also said China and Russia have given/sold weapons.

So Iíd say these governments are as bad as each other in terms of arming ISIS

Do you think Russia are not or did not provide weapons?
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 15, 2021, 08:51:19 PM
Amnesty international said this, endemic corruption. They also said China and Russia have given/sold weapons.

So Iíd say these governments are as bad as each other in terms of arming ISIS

Do you think Russia are not or did not provide weapons?

Absolutely not. Russia back the Syrian state so why would they be arming rebels to overthrow the state?

Just like Afghanistan the CIA were arming and training rebels that turned around and brought global terrorism to the west.

Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: screenexile on February 15, 2021, 09:16:02 PM
So Russia didnít annex Crimea and take a f**king passenger plane down?

The 2 lads were in Salisbury to visit its f**king cathedral?

Putin didnít eradicate Oligarch corruption and then give them a free pass as long as he got his cut...

They donít stamp out free speech or discriminate against the LGBTQ community?

What planet are you on? Read Bill Browders Red Notice and educate yourself a bit before plotting another thread with your nonsense!!
 
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 15, 2021, 09:17:47 PM
Amnesty international said this, endemic corruption. They also said China and Russia have given/sold weapons.

So Iíd say these governments are as bad as each other in terms of arming ISIS

Do you think Russia are not or did not provide weapons?

Absolutely not. Russia back the Syrian state so why would they be arming rebels to overthrow the state?

Just like Afghanistan the CIA were arming and training rebels that turned around and brought global terrorism to the west.

So Amnesty international is wrong?

Would you see Amnesty international as being or selling western propaganda?
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 15, 2021, 09:18:00 PM
So Russia didnít annex Crimea and take a f**king passenger plane down?

The 2 lads were in Salisbury to visit its f**king cathedral?

Putin didnít eradicate Oligarch corruption and then give them a free pass as long as he got his cut...

They donít stamp out free speech or discriminate against the LGBTQ community?

What planet are you on? Read Bill Browders Red Notice and educate yourself a bit before plotting another thread with your nonsense!!

Do you think Russia are a bigger evil than the US?
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 15, 2021, 09:20:24 PM
Amnesty international said this, endemic corruption. They also said China and Russia have given/sold weapons.

So Iíd say these governments are as bad as each other in terms of arming ISIS

Do you think Russia are not or did not provide weapons?

Absolutely not. Russia back the Syrian state so why would they be arming rebels to overthrow the state?

Just like Afghanistan the CIA were arming and training rebels that turned around and brought global terrorism to the west.

So Amnesty international is wrong?

Would you see Amnesty international as being or selling western propaganda?

If Amnesty International are suggesting the CIA didn't train or arm Syrian rebels then yes they are wrong. Are you saying they have said the CIA did not train and arm Syrian rebels?

Secondly Amnesty International are a Western Organisation, funded by Western states so they are hardly neutral here.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: screenexile on February 15, 2021, 09:28:49 PM
So Russia didnít annex Crimea and take a f**king passenger plane down?

The 2 lads were in Salisbury to visit its f**king cathedral?

Putin didnít eradicate Oligarch corruption and then give them a free pass as long as he got his cut...

They donít stamp out free speech or discriminate against the LGBTQ community?

What planet are you on? Read Bill Browders Red Notice and educate yourself a bit before plotting another thread with your nonsense!!

Do you think Russia are a bigger evil than the US?

Yes I do Russia is not a democracy... you think the NYT or CNN equivalent would survive in Russia??

Trump would still be in charge if the US were like Russia. Absolutely the US have done plenty of heinous things but youíre painting Russia to be some kind of bastion of moral authority when they have a man whoís been in charge for 22 odd years and is seeking to change the constitution to keep himself in power until 2036!!
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: dublin7 on February 15, 2021, 09:34:30 PM
So Russia didnít annex Crimea and take a f**king passenger plane down?

The 2 lads were in Salisbury to visit its f**king cathedral?

Putin didnít eradicate Oligarch corruption and then give them a free pass as long as he got his cut...

They donít stamp out free speech or discriminate against the LGBTQ community?

What planet are you on? Read Bill Browders Red Notice and educate yourself a bit before plotting another thread with your nonsense!!

Another incident/disgrace was after the Kursk submarine disaster. One of the family members was injected with a sedative to stop her criticising the minister for the governments inaction in rescuing the crew.

That's not something any government should do or be admired for

https://youtu.be/jFBOfIiqW0o

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2000/aug/25/kursk.russia3
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 15, 2021, 09:40:04 PM
Amnesty international said this, endemic corruption. They also said China and Russia have given/sold weapons.

So Iíd say these governments are as bad as each other in terms of arming ISIS

Do you think Russia are not or did not provide weapons?

Absolutely not. Russia back the Syrian state so why would they be arming rebels to overthrow the state?

Just like Afghanistan the CIA were arming and training rebels that turned around and brought global terrorism to the west.

So Amnesty international is wrong?

Would you see Amnesty international as being or selling western propaganda?

If Amnesty International are suggesting the CIA didn't train or arm Syrian rebels then yes they are wrong. Are you saying they have said the CIA did not train and arm Syrian rebels?

Secondly Amnesty International are a Western Organisation, funded by Western states so they are hardly neutral here.

Iím going to say it one more time. They stated USA as selling guns to ISIS! Youíre exhausting
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 15, 2021, 09:42:37 PM
So Russia didnít annex Crimea and take a f**king passenger plane down?

The 2 lads were in Salisbury to visit its f**king cathedral?

Putin didnít eradicate Oligarch corruption and then give them a free pass as long as he got his cut...

They donít stamp out free speech or discriminate against the LGBTQ community?

What planet are you on? Read Bill Browders Red Notice and educate yourself a bit before plotting another thread with your nonsense!!

Do you think Russia are a bigger evil than the US?

Yes I do Russia is not a democracy... you think the NYT or CNN equivalent would survive in Russia??

Trump would still be in charge if the US were like Russia. Absolutely the US have done plenty of heinous things but youíre painting Russia to be some kind of bastion of moral authority when they have a man whoís been in charge for 22 odd years and is seeking to change the constitution to keep himself in power until 2036!!

Wow.

That says a lot, to say the Americans have done a lot of heinous things is understatement of the century. In contrast to the Americans - the Russians are a bastion of moral superiority - the Russians never dropped an atomic bomb on a city.

The bottom is you take your views of Russia from Western Propaganda. It's a bit like taking an account of the troubles from British print media.



Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 15, 2021, 09:43:08 PM
Amnesty international said this, endemic corruption. They also said China and Russia have given/sold weapons.

So Iíd say these governments are as bad as each other in terms of arming ISIS

Do you think Russia are not or did not provide weapons?

Absolutely not. Russia back the Syrian state so why would they be arming rebels to overthrow the state?

Just like Afghanistan the CIA were arming and training rebels that turned around and brought global terrorism to the west.

So Amnesty international is wrong?

Would you see Amnesty international as being or selling western propaganda?

If Amnesty International are suggesting the CIA didn't train or arm Syrian rebels then yes they are wrong. Are you saying they have said the CIA did not train and arm Syrian rebels?

Secondly Amnesty International are a Western Organisation, funded by Western states so they are hardly neutral here.

Iím going to say it one more time. They stated USA as selling guns to ISIS! Youíre exhausting

So you won't answer my question.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: mouview on February 15, 2021, 09:45:49 PM
Tune in tomorrow, when Uncle Joe is reinvented to a kindly jovial figure.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 15, 2021, 09:49:01 PM
Amnesty international said this, endemic corruption. They also said China and Russia have given/sold weapons.

So Iíd say these governments are as bad as each other in terms of arming ISIS

Do you think Russia are not or did not provide weapons?

Absolutely not. Russia back the Syrian state so why would they be arming rebels to overthrow the state?

Just like Afghanistan the CIA were arming and training rebels that turned around and brought global terrorism to the west.

So Amnesty international is wrong?

Would you see Amnesty international as being or selling western propaganda?

If Amnesty International are suggesting the CIA didn't train or arm Syrian rebels then yes they are wrong. Are you saying they have said the CIA did not train and arm Syrian rebels?

Secondly Amnesty International are a Western Organisation, funded by Western states so they are hardly neutral here.

Iím going to say it one more time. They stated USA as selling guns to ISIS! Youíre exhausting

So you won't answer my question.

They have answered it, as they have also said Russia did the same, these are not my answers as Iím not involved in that.

People a lot smarter than you and me state this. So if you want to substitute USA with CIA and Russia with KGB then do that.

If you think Russia didnít then you are just arguing black is white. Which is your form
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 15, 2021, 09:56:20 PM
Amnesty international said this, endemic corruption. They also said China and Russia have given/sold weapons.

So Iíd say these governments are as bad as each other in terms of arming ISIS

Do you think Russia are not or did not provide weapons?

Absolutely not. Russia back the Syrian state so why would they be arming rebels to overthrow the state?

Just like Afghanistan the CIA were arming and training rebels that turned around and brought global terrorism to the west.

So Amnesty international is wrong?

Would you see Amnesty international as being or selling western propaganda?

If Amnesty International are suggesting the CIA didn't train or arm Syrian rebels then yes they are wrong. Are you saying they have said the CIA did not train and arm Syrian rebels?

Secondly Amnesty International are a Western Organisation, funded by Western states so they are hardly neutral here.

Iím going to say it one more time. They stated USA as selling guns to ISIS! Youíre exhausting

So you won't answer my question.

They have answered it, as they have also said Russia did the same, these are not my answers as Iím not involved in that.

People a lot smarter than you and me state this. So if you want to substitute USA with CIA and Russia with KGB then do that.

If you think Russia didnít then you are just arguing black is white. Which is your form

You have failed to answer the question I asked you.

Are you saying they have said the CIA did not train and arm Syrian rebels?

The Russian state did not supply Syrian rebels with arms - if you have proof of that outlandish claim then please post it up.

Conversely the American state did provide arms and training to Syrian rebels who later formed ISIS.

Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Ed Ricketts on February 15, 2021, 09:59:01 PM
Superb restraint from sid waddell thus far.

This one could be a bust.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 15, 2021, 10:02:31 PM
Amnesty international said this, endemic corruption. They also said China and Russia have given/sold weapons.

So Iíd say these governments are as bad as each other in terms of arming ISIS

Do you think Russia are not or did not provide weapons?

Absolutely not. Russia back the Syrian state so why would they be arming rebels to overthrow the state?

Just like Afghanistan the CIA were arming and training rebels that turned around and brought global terrorism to the west.

So Amnesty international is wrong?

Would you see Amnesty international as being or selling western propaganda?

If Amnesty International are suggesting the CIA didn't train or arm Syrian rebels then yes they are wrong. Are you saying they have said the CIA did not train and arm Syrian rebels?

Secondly Amnesty International are a Western Organisation, funded by Western states so they are hardly neutral here.

Iím going to say it one more time. They stated USA as selling guns to ISIS! Youíre exhausting

So you won't answer my question.

They have answered it, as they have also said Russia did the same, these are not my answers as Iím not involved in that.

People a lot smarter than you and me state this. So if you want to substitute USA with CIA and Russia with KGB then do that.

If you think Russia didnít then you are just arguing black is white. Which is your form

You have failed to answer the question I asked you.

Are you saying they have said the CIA did not train and arm Syrian rebels?

The Russian state did not supply Syrian rebels with arms - if you have proof of that outlandish claim then please post it up.

Conversely the American state did provide arms and training to Syrian rebels who later formed ISIS.

I gave you proof.. Russia provided weapons as did the US. Iím not saying USA didnít neither is the article I put up.

You give me proof they didnít.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Franko on February 15, 2021, 10:04:47 PM
Superb restraint from sid waddell thus far.

This one could be a bust.

 ;D looks like it!

Pity about the others
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 15, 2021, 10:21:20 PM
Superb restraint from sid waddell thus far.

This one could be a bust.

 ;D looks like it!

Pity about the others

 ;D
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on February 15, 2021, 10:29:41 PM
Superb restraint from sid waddell thus far.

This one could be a bust.

Ye know this could be the way to go. Rather than read all the, frankly, bullshit that angelo and sid put up, or those silly enough to engage, could we nominate someone who provides sporadic updates. Running commentary. But brief. A gaaboard martin tyler if you will
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 15, 2021, 10:37:44 PM
Superb restraint from sid waddell thus far.

This one could be a bust.

Ye know this could be the way to go. Rather than read all the, frankly, bullshit that angelo and sid put up, or those silly enough to engage, could we nominate someone who provides sporadic updates. Running commentary. But brief. A gaaboard martin tyler if you will

Surely though this one is a complete gimmie?

Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: armaghniac on February 15, 2021, 11:02:45 PM
Rene Russo?


Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 15, 2021, 11:22:26 PM
Lethal Weapons? Though who provided her with them?
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 16, 2021, 12:41:08 AM
I'll say one thing. It grinds my gears when the yanks claim to be the first in everything, including the space race. i once saw a sign at a baseball game near the concession stand claiming that John Glenn ate the first meal in space, when in fact Gagarin beat him to it the previous year. The USSR got a string of firsts in the space race:


Plus the continuous development of the most reliable space launch vehicle.

And yes, US foreign policy has been a disgrace over the years. Democratic governments toppled and dictators put in their place at the first sign of nationalizing the oil industry (unless you're a NATO member, in which case you don't get the "freedom" treatment). US democracy is in a mess and can unravel if Biden doesn't grow a pair and fix it by nuking the Senate filibuster and pushing through statehood for DC and PR, and expanding the supreme court.

America talks the talk on democracy but isn't so good at walking the walk. The UK is the same, they haven't had a government elected by the popular vote for decades. Countries like Ireland, for all their faults, have governments that actually represent the majority of voters and are less prone to making rash decisions like Brexit or electing an unqualified reality TV star to the highest office.

As for Russia, the Russian people are the ones I feel sorry for. They've lived under autocrats through the time of the Tsars only to have another set of dictators take over in the form of the Bolsheviks. The west had an opportunity to bring Russia into the fold in the 1990s with the end of the cold war, put them into some sort of special trading relationship with the EU or something. And NATO should have been wound up. Instead NATO's borders were pushed into former Soviet territories and GW Bush, for some unfathomable reason, decided to put a "missile defense shield" in Eastern Europe. It was like a reverse of the Cuban missile crisis, and it got scant media coverage in the west. No wonder Putin's hand was strengthened. The doves in Moscow were made to look like fools and the hawks have had a free run ever since. Nowadays they feed the Russian people a completely distorted view of the outside world.

Putin is a tyrant, but he's ultimately a product of western policy.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 16, 2021, 12:44:44 AM
Amnesty international said this, endemic corruption. They also said China and Russia have given/sold weapons.

So Iíd say these governments are as bad as each other in terms of arming ISIS

Do you think Russia are not or did not provide weapons?

Absolutely not. Russia back the Syrian state so why would they be arming rebels to overthrow the state?

Just like Afghanistan the CIA were arming and training rebels that turned around and brought global terrorism to the west.

So Amnesty international is wrong?

Would you see Amnesty international as being or selling western propaganda?

If Amnesty International are suggesting the CIA didn't train or arm Syrian rebels then yes they are wrong. Are you saying they have said the CIA did not train and arm Syrian rebels?

Secondly Amnesty International are a Western Organisation, funded by Western states so they are hardly neutral here.

Amnesty is an NGO. Apart from a handful of grants over the years, they do not accept funding from governments in order to maintain independence. It has fee-paying  members in countries all over the world, not just the west, including Russia.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Look-Up! on February 16, 2021, 02:56:48 AM
So Russia didnít annex Crimea and take a f**king passenger plane down?

The 2 lads were in Salisbury to visit its f**king cathedral?

Putin didnít eradicate Oligarch corruption and then give them a free pass as long as he got his cut...

They donít stamp out free speech or discriminate against the LGBTQ community?

What planet are you on? Read Bill Browders Red Notice and educate yourself a bit before plotting another thread with your nonsense!!

Do you think Russia are a bigger evil than the US?

Yes I do Russia is not a democracy... you think the NYT or CNN equivalent would survive in Russia??

Trump would still be in charge if the US were like Russia. Absolutely the US have done plenty of heinous things but youíre painting Russia to be some kind of bastion of moral authority when they have a man whoís been in charge for 22 odd years and is seeking to change the constitution to keep himself in power until 2036!!

Wow.

That says a lot, to say the Americans have done a lot of heinous things is understatement of the century. In contrast to the Americans - the Russians are a bastion of moral superiority - the Russians never dropped an atomic bomb on a city.

The bottom is you take your views of Russia from Western Propaganda. It's a bit like taking an account of the troubles from British print media.

Not taking sides here, just waiting for the popcorn to cook TBH, but I think a few Kazakhs may have spat out their kumis on hearing that proclamation.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: dublin7 on February 16, 2021, 07:56:52 AM
Good to see boundaries have been set. I think everyone would agree using nuclear weapons is crossing a line
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 16, 2021, 08:23:48 AM
Amnesty international said this, endemic corruption. They also said China and Russia have given/sold weapons.

So Iíd say these governments are as bad as each other in terms of arming ISIS

Do you think Russia are not or did not provide weapons?

Absolutely not. Russia back the Syrian state so why would they be arming rebels to overthrow the state?

Just like Afghanistan the CIA were arming and training rebels that turned around and brought global terrorism to the west.

So Amnesty international is wrong?

Would you see Amnesty international as being or selling western propaganda?

If Amnesty International are suggesting the CIA didn't train or arm Syrian rebels then yes they are wrong. Are you saying they have said the CIA did not train and arm Syrian rebels?

Secondly Amnesty International are a Western Organisation, funded by Western states so they are hardly neutral here.

Iím going to say it one more time. They stated USA as selling guns to ISIS! Youíre exhausting

So you won't answer my question.

They have answered it, as they have also said Russia did the same, these are not my answers as Iím not involved in that.

People a lot smarter than you and me state this. So if you want to substitute USA with CIA and Russia with KGB then do that.

If you think Russia didnít then you are just arguing black is white. Which is your form

You have failed to answer the question I asked you.

Are you saying they have said the CIA did not train and arm Syrian rebels?

The Russian state did not supply Syrian rebels with arms - if you have proof of that outlandish claim then please post it up.

Conversely the American state did provide arms and training to Syrian rebels who later formed ISIS.

I gave you proof.. Russia provided weapons as did the US. Iím not saying USA didnít neither is the article I put up.

You give me proof they didnít.

Nope. You have not answered the questions I asked. Instead you are answering a question not asked and you have not provided any proof the Russian state armed Syrian rebels.

Seems you are actually engaging in Russophobia.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 16, 2021, 08:52:44 AM
I don't believe you, until you show me evidence...

Two can play that game  ;)
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 16, 2021, 10:18:51 AM
I don't believe you, until you show me evidence...

Two can play that game  ;)

You're saying there is proof the Russian state has supplied arms to Syrian rebels, I'm saying I have seen no prrof support that claim. The onus is on you to back up that claim and you don't seem to be able to which would suggest that you are throwing out wild and baseless allegations to defend your position.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 16, 2021, 10:25:08 AM
Good to see boundaries have been set. I think everyone would agree using nuclear weapons is crossing a line

Watched a programme on this recently actually, the point of the show wasn't actually so as the bombs were to finish off the Japanese but to stop the Russian advance that was coming to East Asia and stop another de facto set of satellites. I genuinely never had thought of that until then.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 16, 2021, 10:36:15 AM
I don't believe you, until you show me evidence...

Two can play that game  ;)

You're saying there is proof the Russian state has supplied arms to Syrian rebels, I'm saying I have seen no prrof support that claim. The onus is on you to back up that claim and you don't seem to be able to which would suggest that you are throwing out wild and baseless allegations to defend your position.

Iíve posted from the Amnesty international website that the Russians supplied ISIS, if you chose not to believe that, I canít help you. China have also, along with the USA. Itís not difficult to understand, but you do a very good job of it
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 16, 2021, 10:42:30 AM
I don't believe you, until you show me evidence...

Two can play that game  ;)

You're saying there is proof the Russian state has supplied arms to Syrian rebels, I'm saying I have seen no prrof support that claim. The onus is on you to back up that claim and you don't seem to be able to which would suggest that you are throwing out wild and baseless allegations to defend your position.

Iíve posted from the Amnesty international website that the Russians supplied ISIS, if you chose not to believe that, I canít help you. China have also, along with the USA. Itís not difficult to understand, but you do a very good job of it

I think you're trying to muddy the waters.

There is no suggestion that the Russian state armed or trained Syrian rebels in anything you have provided. So why are you lying?
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 16, 2021, 10:45:47 AM
I don't believe you, until you show me evidence...

Two can play that game  ;)

You're saying there is proof the Russian state has supplied arms to Syrian rebels, I'm saying I have seen no prrof support that claim. The onus is on you to back up that claim and you don't seem to be able to which would suggest that you are throwing out wild and baseless allegations to defend your position.

Iíve posted from the Amnesty international website that the Russians supplied ISIS, if you chose not to believe that, I canít help you. China have also, along with the USA. Itís not difficult to understand, but you do a very good job of it

I think you're trying to muddy the waters.

There is no suggestion that the Russian state armed or trained Syrian rebels in anything you have provided. So why are you lying?

I'm not lying, its not my website, its Amnesty international... they have said Russia supplied arms. Take your disagreement up with them, not me.

Show me evidence to prove it differently and I'll check it over, otherwise your are making false claims
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 16, 2021, 10:47:56 AM
I don't believe you, until you show me evidence...

Two can play that game  ;)

You're saying there is proof the Russian state has supplied arms to Syrian rebels, I'm saying I have seen no prrof support that claim. The onus is on you to back up that claim and you don't seem to be able to which would suggest that you are throwing out wild and baseless allegations to defend your position.

Iíve posted from the Amnesty international website that the Russians supplied ISIS, if you chose not to believe that, I canít help you. China have also, along with the USA. Itís not difficult to understand, but you do a very good job of it

I think you're trying to muddy the waters.

There is no suggestion that the Russian state armed or trained Syrian rebels in anything you have provided. So why are you lying?

I'm not lying, its not my website, its Amnesty international... they have said Russia supplied arms. Take your disagreement up with them, not me.

Show me evidence to prove it differently and I'll check it over, otherwise your are making false claims

You are lying.

Nowhere at all does it say the Russian state ever armed Syrian rebels, nowhere and all you are trying to do is muddy the waters here.

We do know however that the CIA were directly involved in training and arming Syrian rebels, no evidence at all to corroborate your claims other than your anti-Russian racism.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Louther on February 16, 2021, 10:53:45 AM
And tomorrow we present:

Hitler - was he misunderstood and how his ideas for Europe could have played out.

In sport:
Daniel Kinahan - the inner city kid done good, boxingís saviour proclaimed.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 16, 2021, 10:57:20 AM
I don't believe you, until you show me evidence...

Two can play that game  ;)

You're saying there is proof the Russian state has supplied arms to Syrian rebels, I'm saying I have seen no prrof support that claim. The onus is on you to back up that claim and you don't seem to be able to which would suggest that you are throwing out wild and baseless allegations to defend your position.

Iíve posted from the Amnesty international website that the Russians supplied ISIS, if you chose not to believe that, I canít help you. China have also, along with the USA. Itís not difficult to understand, but you do a very good job of it

I think you're trying to muddy the waters.

There is no suggestion that the Russian state armed or trained Syrian rebels in anything you have provided. So why are you lying?

I'm not lying, its not my website, its Amnesty international... they have said Russia supplied arms. Take your disagreement up with them, not me.

Show me evidence to prove it differently and I'll check it over, otherwise your are making false claims

You are lying.

Nowhere at all does it say the Russian state ever armed Syrian rebels, nowhere and all you are trying to do is muddy the waters here.

We do know however that the CIA were directly involved in training and arming Syrian rebels, no evidence at all to corroborate your claims other than your anti-Russian racism.

Now youíre either thick or ignorant. You start with Iím lying. Itís Amnesty international you claim is lying.

If it says Russia is supplying ISIS then it has reasons for saying that.

I love Russia by the way. Looking to head there once we are allowed to travel. Seems like a really nice place
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 16, 2021, 10:58:01 AM
And tomorrow we present:

Hitler - was he misunderstood and how his ideas for Europe could have played out.

In sport:
Daniel Kinahan - the inner city kid done good, boxingís saviour proclaimed.

He built good roads in fairness.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Louther on February 16, 2021, 11:00:30 AM
And tomorrow we present:

Hitler - was he misunderstood and how his ideas for Europe could have played out.

In sport:
Daniel Kinahan - the inner city kid done good, boxingís saviour proclaimed.

He built good roads in fairness.

By all accounts it on his headstone:
Adolf Hitler
1889-1945
He built some cracking roads.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 16, 2021, 11:01:33 AM
I don't believe you, until you show me evidence...

Two can play that game  ;)

You're saying there is proof the Russian state has supplied arms to Syrian rebels, I'm saying I have seen no prrof support that claim. The onus is on you to back up that claim and you don't seem to be able to which would suggest that you are throwing out wild and baseless allegations to defend your position.

Iíve posted from the Amnesty international website that the Russians supplied ISIS, if you chose not to believe that, I canít help you. China have also, along with the USA. Itís not difficult to understand, but you do a very good job of it

I think you're trying to muddy the waters.

There is no suggestion that the Russian state armed or trained Syrian rebels in anything you have provided. So why are you lying?

I'm not lying, its not my website, its Amnesty international... they have said Russia supplied arms. Take your disagreement up with them, not me.

Show me evidence to prove it differently and I'll check it over, otherwise your are making false claims

You are lying.

Nowhere at all does it say the Russian state ever armed Syrian rebels, nowhere and all you are trying to do is muddy the waters here.

We do know however that the CIA were directly involved in training and arming Syrian rebels, no evidence at all to corroborate your claims other than your anti-Russian racism.

Now youíre either thick or ignorant. You start with Iím lying. Itís Amnesty international you claim is lying.

If it says Russia is supplying ISIS then it has reasons for saying that.

I love Russia by the way. Looking to head there once we are allowed to travel. Seems like a really nice place

You are lying, where does it say the Russian state was involved in supplying arms? Nowhere. You are either too simple to understand that you are making false claims and then attributing them to Amnesty

The only one saying the Russian state supplied arms to Syrian rebels is you and you are trying to tarnish a humanitarian organisation into spreading your lies.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 16, 2021, 11:02:02 AM
By Milltown's logic.

The Irish state is supplying heroin to Europe.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 16, 2021, 11:04:11 AM
And tomorrow we present:

Hitler - was he misunderstood and how his ideas for Europe could have played out.

In sport:
Daniel Kinahan - the inner city kid done good, boxingís saviour proclaimed.

He built good roads in fairness.

By all accounts it on his headstone:
Adolf Hitler
1889-1945
He built some cracking roads.

You have to see the good in everyone Louther.

This is how this works, isn't it?
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 16, 2021, 11:06:29 AM
 ďIrresponsible arms transfers by countries including the UK, USA, Russia, China, Germany and France have provided the armed group with a huge and lethal arsenal.

For years, weapons of war have been freely flowing into Iraq. Slack controls over Iraqi military stockpiles and endemic corruption by successive Iraqi governments have added to the problem.Ē

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/how-isis-islamic-state-isil-got-its-weapons-iraq-syria
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Louther on February 16, 2021, 11:20:59 AM
And tomorrow we present:

Hitler - was he misunderstood and how his ideas for Europe could have played out.

In sport:
Daniel Kinahan - the inner city kid done good, boxingís saviour proclaimed.

He built good roads in fairness.

By all accounts it on his headstone:
Adolf Hitler
1889-1945
He built some cracking roads.

You have to see the good in everyone Louther.

This is how this works, isn't it?

Truth is in the eye of the beholder
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 16, 2021, 11:53:26 AM
ďIrresponsible arms transfers by countries including the UK, USA, Russia, China, Germany and France have provided the armed group with a huge and lethal arsenal.

For years, weapons of war have been freely flowing into Iraq. Slack controls over Iraqi military stockpiles and endemic corruption by successive Iraqi governments have added to the problem.Ē

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/how-isis-islamic-state-isil-got-its-weapons-iraq-syria

So how would Russia have armed ISIS when they supported the Syrian state?

It would be like saying the British state armed the IRA because it armed the RUC/UDR.

Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: dublin7 on February 16, 2021, 11:56:55 AM
Good to see boundaries have been set. I think everyone would agree using nuclear weapons is crossing a line

Watched a programme on this recently actually, the point of the show wasn't actually so as the bombs were to finish off the Japanese but to stop the Russian advance that was coming to East Asia and stop another de facto set of satellites. I genuinely never had thought of that until then.

I wouldn't have thought that either. For me I was always thought it was done to save American lives. The invasions of the japanese islands one at time was costing them huge numbers of lives and dropping the atomic bombs was a way of ending the war quickly without risking more Americans
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 16, 2021, 11:59:07 AM
Good to see boundaries have been set. I think everyone would agree using nuclear weapons is crossing a line

Watched a programme on this recently actually, the point of the show wasn't actually so as the bombs were to finish off the Japanese but to stop the Russian advance that was coming to East Asia and stop another de facto set of satellites. I genuinely never had thought of that until then.

I wouldn't have thought that either. For me I was always thought it was done to save American lives. The invasions of the japanese islands one at time was costing them huge numbers of lives and dropping the atomic bombs was a way of ending the war quickly without risking more Americans

I've read it all now, a lad justifying the dropping of atomic bombs on cities. Nearly quarter of a million people killed - almost all civilians.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: five points on February 16, 2021, 12:22:25 PM
Good to see boundaries have been set. I think everyone would agree using nuclear weapons is crossing a line

Watched a programme on this recently actually, the point of the show wasn't actually so as the bombs were to finish off the Japanese but to stop the Russian advance that was coming to East Asia and stop another de facto set of satellites. I genuinely never had thought of that until then.

I wouldn't have thought that either. For me I was always thought it was done to save American lives. The invasions of the japanese islands one at time was costing them huge numbers of lives and dropping the atomic bombs was a way of ending the war quickly without risking more Americans

I've read it all now, a lad justifying the dropping of atomic bombs on cities. Nearly quarter of a million people killed - almost all civilians.

He's not justifying it. Just explaining the Americans' logic.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 16, 2021, 01:15:31 PM
Good to see boundaries have been set. I think everyone would agree using nuclear weapons is crossing a line

Watched a programme on this recently actually, the point of the show wasn't actually so as the bombs were to finish off the Japanese but to stop the Russian advance that was coming to East Asia and stop another de facto set of satellites. I genuinely never had thought of that until then.

I wouldn't have thought that either. For me I was always thought it was done to save American lives. The invasions of the japanese islands one at time was costing them huge numbers of lives and dropping the atomic bombs was a way of ending the war quickly without risking more Americans

I've read it all now, a lad justifying the dropping of atomic bombs on cities. Nearly quarter of a million people killed - almost all civilians.

He's not justifying it. Just explaining the Americans' logic.

If you're explaining the logic of dropping a bomb that kills over 200k civivilans then you are justifying it. There is no logic to explain it or justify it. It was one of the greatest atrocities the world has even seen and was done with the knowledge it was going to kill hundreds of thousands of innocents.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: five points on February 16, 2021, 01:31:52 PM
If you're explaining the logic of dropping a bomb that kills over 200k civivilans then you are justifying it. There is no logic to explain it or justify it. It was one of the greatest atrocities the world has even seen and was done with the knowledge it was going to kill hundreds of thousands of innocents.

Don't be silly. History teachers often have to explain to students why for example Napoleon invaded Russia in 1812 or Hitler did likewise in 1941. Doing so does not on any level constitute justification.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 16, 2021, 01:36:19 PM
If you're explaining the logic of dropping a bomb that kills over 200k civivilans then you are justifying it. There is no logic to explain it or justify it. It was one of the greatest atrocities the world has even seen and was done with the knowledge it was going to kill hundreds of thousands of innocents.

Don't be silly. History teachers often have to explain to students why for example Napoleon invaded Russia in 1812 or Hitler did likewise in 1941. Doing so does not on any level constitute justification.

There is no explaining or justifying the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki like dublin7 attempted to do.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: five points on February 16, 2021, 01:39:28 PM
There is no explaining or justifying the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki like dublin7 attempted to do.

Of course there is an explanation, and probably a number of them, for both. They didn't just happen spontaneously.  Same with for example the Holocaust. Explanation is not justification.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: dublin7 on February 16, 2021, 01:56:49 PM
There is no explaining or justifying the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki like dublin7 attempted to do.

Of course there is an explanation, and probably a number of them, for both. They didn't just happen spontaneously.  Same with for example the Holocaust. Explanation is not justification.

I appreciate what your doing FP, but there's no need. You and I both know I simply said why I think the American's dropped the atomic bombs.

From reading Milltowns posts/quotes earlier Angelo was losing his argument with Milltown/Amnesty International and rather than accept defeat he reached out for this as a tangent to deflect away from the original argument

Can Milltown confirm if Angelo has accepted Amnesty Internationals claims on Russia?
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: johnnycool on February 16, 2021, 01:59:38 PM
I'll say one thing. It grinds my gears when the yanks claim to be the first in everything, including the space race. i once saw a sign at a baseball game near the concession stand claiming that John Glenn ate the first meal in space, when in fact Gagarin beat him to it the previous year. The USSR got a string of firsts in the space race:

  • First artificial satellite
  • First living thing in space
  • First man in space
  • First woman in space
  • First spacewalk
  • First lunar landing of a probe
  • First lunar rover
  • First space station

Plus the continuous development of the most reliable space launch vehicle.

And yes, US foreign policy has been a disgrace over the years. Democratic governments toppled and dictators put in their place at the first sign of nationalizing the oil industry (unless you're a NATO member, in which case you don't get the "freedom" treatment). US democracy is in a mess and can unravel if Biden doesn't grow a pair and fix it by nuking the Senate filibuster and pushing through statehood for DC and PR, and expanding the supreme court.

America talks the talk on democracy but isn't so good at walking the walk. The UK is the same, they haven't had a government elected by the popular vote for decades. Countries like Ireland, for all their faults, have governments that actually represent the majority of voters and are less prone to making rash decisions like Brexit or electing an unqualified reality TV star to the highest office.

As for Russia, the Russian people are the ones I feel sorry for. They've lived under autocrats through the time of the Tsars only to have another set of dictators take over in the form of the Bolsheviks. The west had an opportunity to bring Russia into the fold in the 1990s with the end of the cold war, put them into some sort of special trading relationship with the EU or something. And NATO should have been wound up. Instead NATO's borders were pushed into former Soviet territories and GW Bush, for some unfathomable reason, decided to put a "missile defense shield" in Eastern Europe. It was like a reverse of the Cuban missile crisis, and it got scant media coverage in the west. No wonder Putin's hand was strengthened. The doves in Moscow were made to look like fools and the hawks have had a free run ever since. Nowadays they feed the Russian people a completely distorted view of the outside world.

Putin is a tyrant, but he's ultimately a product of western policy.

So much truth in this but like all self serving "empires" the Russians, American's, Chinese and formerly the Brits manipulate/create these political crisis to suit their own needs.

The Russian money funneling into London allowed them to leverage it to push for Brexit which certainly will harm GB and to a lesser extent the EU.

The Middle East is very much a proxy battlefield, let alone Yemen for the Western powers. Maybe sleepy Joe threatening to ban weapon sales into Saudi can take the heat out of it, but don't worry, the Brits and French will keep arming the Saudi to the hilt.

At the same time you'd think the Russians would stop using novichok as it's a bit too obvious at this stage.. ;)

In short, they're all a shower of cķnts.

Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 16, 2021, 02:33:00 PM
There is no explaining or justifying the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki like dublin7 attempted to do.

Of course there is an explanation, and probably a number of them, for both. They didn't just happen spontaneously.  Same with for example the Holocaust. Explanation is not justification.

I appreciate what your doing FP, but there's no need. You and I both know I simply said why I think the American's dropped the atomic bombs.

From reading Milltowns posts/quotes earlier Angelo was losing his argument with Milltown/Amnesty International and rather than accept defeat he reached out for this as a tangent to deflect away from the original argument

Can Milltown confirm if Angelo has accepted Amnesty Internationals claims on Russia?

Why would you care what I accept if you have me on ignore, Princess?
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: dec on February 16, 2021, 02:34:28 PM
At the same time you'd think the Russians would stop using novichok as it's a bit too obvious at this stage.. ;)

I think that is the point, they are sending a message.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 16, 2021, 02:37:19 PM
The usual Western Propaganda regarding Russia is alive and well. You'd never have any of the Western states taking out political rivals and intelligence officers at all.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-24957365

Quote
A confined spaces expert who gave evidence at the inquest of dead M16 agent Gareth Williams, has questioned suggestions that the spy's death was accidental.

Peter Faulding, who was asked to see if he could escape a padlocked sports bag like the one Gareth Williams was found in, said that he could lock himself in the bag - but was unable to put the padlock on.

He told BBC Radio 5 live's Phil Williams that there was no DNA traces on the padlock or outside of the bag, and that Gareth's "foetal position" and "calm manner" indicated that his body was placed into the bag after his death.

However this week the Metropolitan Police said an evidence review had found "it was more probable" no other person was present when he died in his London flat.


The West are very quick to dabble in speculation and accusations when its Russia. Not so quick on their own clean up jobs.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 16, 2021, 03:01:34 PM
ďIrresponsible arms transfers by countries including the UK, USA, Russia, China, Germany and France have provided the armed group with a huge and lethal arsenal.

For years, weapons of war have been freely flowing into Iraq. Slack controls over Iraqi military stockpiles and endemic corruption by successive Iraqi governments have added to the problem.Ē

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/how-isis-islamic-state-isil-got-its-weapons-iraq-syria

So how would Russia have armed ISIS when they supported the Syrian state?

It would be like saying the British state armed the IRA because it armed the RUC/UDR.

If you are saying Amnesty International are wrong that's fine, like I said I'm just linking you information from a respected source worldwide, you on the other hand haven't disproved it and are starting to talk shite about the ra!

Stick to the topic and don't bring the Ra into it  :D
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: north_antrim_hound on February 16, 2021, 03:06:59 PM
The  bombing of children and civilians in Aleppo and supporting the Assad regime finished me with Russia. To put it down to a proxy war where everyone is involved is ludicrous, the only intense bombing by USA there was against ISIS in the north helping the Kurds. Syria has demonstrated what a monster Putin really is.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 16, 2021, 03:15:28 PM
The  bombing of children and civilians in Aleppo and supporting the Assad regime finished me with Russia. To put it down to a proxy war where everyone is involved is ludicrous, the only intense bombing by USA there was against ISIS in the north helping the Kurds. Syria has demonstrated what a monster Putin really is.

Scary that people like you actually believe what you just typed.

Who are the Kurds aligned with now? Assad's Syrian govt.

Who armed and and trained Syrian rebels that went on to form ISIS? The USA.

But in all this you land at the utterly preposterous conclusion that it's Russia's fault.

Once again Russia were proven to have been on the right side in Syria. It was the US who armed, financed and trained Al Qaeda, Saddam Hussein and ISIS. It's the US who consistently swing their backing in behind the Saudis and Israelis.

Maybe open your eyes up and stop being as utterly naive and gullible as you are.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: north_antrim_hound on February 16, 2021, 03:35:32 PM
The  bombing of children and civilians in Aleppo and supporting the Assad regime finished me with Russia. To put it down to a proxy war where everyone is involved is ludicrous, the only intense bombing by USA there was against ISIS in the north helping the Kurds. Syria has demonstrated what a monster Putin really is.

Scary that people like you actually believe what you just typed.

Who are the Kurds aligned with now? Assad's Syrian govt.

Who armed and and trained Syrian rebels that went on to form ISIS? The USA.

But in all this you land at the utterly preposterous conclusion that it's Russia's fault.

Once again Russia were proven to have been on the right side in Syria. It was the US who armed, financed and trained Al Qaeda, Saddam Hussein and ISIS. It's the US who consistently swing their backing in behind the Saudis and Israelis.

Maybe open your eyes up and stop being as utterly naive and gullible as you are.

I am searching for any substance to your reply and canít find one that is factual but some of it is actually disturbing. I think the alliance of the peswharga with the Assad regime is your masterpiece. I take info of the stats section of amnesty int. Not of some fake news websites for 12 year olds. Does your career know your on here typing before you took your meds. The Kurds have only made an uneasy pact due to pressure from turkey after they overcome ISIS. Itís like saying Someone from south Armagh is allied to the British

Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: seafoid on February 16, 2021, 03:36:51 PM
Russia is still suffering from Post World War 2 group trauma. It's not emotionally stable.
Putin plays the people lke a violin. He's also a mess.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 16, 2021, 04:09:50 PM
The  bombing of children and civilians in Aleppo and supporting the Assad regime finished me with Russia. To put it down to a proxy war where everyone is involved is ludicrous, the only intense bombing by USA there was against ISIS in the north helping the Kurds. Syria has demonstrated what a monster Putin really is.

Scary that people like you actually believe what you just typed.

Who are the Kurds aligned with now? Assad's Syrian govt.

Who armed and and trained Syrian rebels that went on to form ISIS? The USA.

But in all this you land at the utterly preposterous conclusion that it's Russia's fault.

Once again Russia were proven to have been on the right side in Syria. It was the US who armed, financed and trained Al Qaeda, Saddam Hussein and ISIS. It's the US who consistently swing their backing in behind the Saudis and Israelis.

Maybe open your eyes up and stop being as utterly naive and gullible as you are.

I am searching for any substance to your reply and canít find one that is factual but some of it is actually disturbing. I think the alliance of the peswharga with the Assad regime is your masterpiece. I take info of the stats section of amnesty int. Not of some fake news websites for 12 year olds. Does your career know your on here typing before you took your meds. The Kurds have only made an uneasy pact due to pressure from turkey after they overcome ISIS. Itís like saying Someone from south Armagh is allied to the British

Everything I have said is factual so to say you have searched and cannot find them is a blatant lie and a hint that you only want to deal in dishonesty here.

Training Syrian rebels https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/02/world/middleeast/cia-syria-rebel-arm-train-trump.html

Kurds joining forces with Assad https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/13/world/middleeast/syria-turkey-invasion-isis.html

CIA training Bin Laden https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna3340101

American support of Saddam https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/08/26/exclusive-cia-files-prove-america-helped-saddam-as-he-gassed-iran/

So please stop pedaling lies and ignorance.

Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: north_antrim_hound on February 16, 2021, 04:23:03 PM
The  bombing of children and civilians in Aleppo and supporting the Assad regime finished me with Russia. To put it down to a proxy war where everyone is involved is ludicrous, the only intense bombing by USA there was against ISIS in the north helping the Kurds. Syria has demonstrated what a monster Putin really is.

Scary that people like you actually believe what you just typed.

Who are the Kurds aligned with now? Assad's Syrian govt.

Who armed and and trained Syrian rebels that went on to form ISIS? The USA.

But in all this you land at the utterly preposterous conclusion that it's Russia's fault.

Once again Russia were proven to have been on the right side in Syria. It was the US who armed, financed and trained Al Qaeda, Saddam Hussein and ISIS. It's the US who consistently swing their backing in behind the Saudis and Israelis.

Maybe open your eyes up and stop being as utterly naive and gullible as you are.

I am searching for any substance to your reply and canít find one that is factual but some of it is actually disturbing. I think the alliance of the peswharga with the Assad regime is your masterpiece. I take info of the stats section of amnesty int. Not of some fake news websites for 12 year olds. Does your career know your on here typing before you took your meds. The Kurds have only made an uneasy pact due to pressure from turkey after they overcome ISIS. Itís like saying Someone from south Armagh is allied to the British

Everything I have said is factual so to say you have searched and cannot find them is a blatant lie and a hint that you only want to deal in dishonesty here.

Training Syrian rebels https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/02/world/middleeast/cia-syria-rebel-arm-train-trump.html

Kurds joining forces with Assad https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/13/world/middleeast/syria-turkey-invasion-isis.html

CIA training Bin Laden https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna3340101

American support of Saddam https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/08/26/exclusive-cia-files-prove-america-helped-saddam-as-he-gassed-iran/

So please stop pedaling lies and ignorance.

Why donít you google civilian casualties through Russian bombing in Syria, after all is that not the narrative that prompted your idiotic response. Who trained who and when has nothing to do with my displeasure on Russiaís input in Syria and the USA only involvement. Only an idiot like yourself would negate the subject on hand and introduce irrelevant misdemeanors to strengthen a weak standpoint. Just out of curiosity what age are you, anything below 8 and Iíll give you some leeway for going completely of the narratives initially highlighted.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 16, 2021, 04:59:30 PM
The  bombing of children and civilians in Aleppo and supporting the Assad regime finished me with Russia. To put it down to a proxy war where everyone is involved is ludicrous, the only intense bombing by USA there was against ISIS in the north helping the Kurds. Syria has demonstrated what a monster Putin really is.

Scary that people like you actually believe what you just typed.

Who are the Kurds aligned with now? Assad's Syrian govt.

Who armed and and trained Syrian rebels that went on to form ISIS? The USA.

But in all this you land at the utterly preposterous conclusion that it's Russia's fault.

Once again Russia were proven to have been on the right side in Syria. It was the US who armed, financed and trained Al Qaeda, Saddam Hussein and ISIS. It's the US who consistently swing their backing in behind the Saudis and Israelis.

Maybe open your eyes up and stop being as utterly naive and gullible as you are.

I am searching for any substance to your reply and canít find one that is factual but some of it is actually disturbing. I think the alliance of the peswharga with the Assad regime is your masterpiece. I take info of the stats section of amnesty int. Not of some fake news websites for 12 year olds. Does your career know your on here typing before you took your meds. The Kurds have only made an uneasy pact due to pressure from turkey after they overcome ISIS. Itís like saying Someone from south Armagh is allied to the British

Everything I have said is factual so to say you have searched and cannot find them is a blatant lie and a hint that you only want to deal in dishonesty here.

Training Syrian rebels https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/02/world/middleeast/cia-syria-rebel-arm-train-trump.html

Kurds joining forces with Assad https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/13/world/middleeast/syria-turkey-invasion-isis.html

CIA training Bin Laden https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna3340101

American support of Saddam https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/08/26/exclusive-cia-files-prove-america-helped-saddam-as-he-gassed-iran/

So please stop pedaling lies and ignorance.

Why donít you google civilian casualties through Russian bombing in Syria, after all is that not the narrative that prompted your idiotic response. Who trained who and when has nothing to do with my displeasure on Russiaís input in Syria and the USA only involvement. Only an idiot like yourself would negate the subject on hand and introduce irrelevant misdemeanors to strengthen a weak standpoint. Just out of curiosity what age are you, anything below 8 and Iíll give you some leeway for going completely of the narratives initially highlighted.

This thread is about Russophobia and you're doing a good job of articulating your ignorant and unfounded anti-Russian racism.

I think you are not grasping at the usual how old are you comment as a defence when you're the one that shown up to be both ignorant of the facts and gullible to Western propaganda.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: north_antrim_hound on February 16, 2021, 05:24:57 PM
The  bombing of children and civilians in Aleppo and supporting the Assad regime finished me with Russia. To put it down to a proxy war where everyone is involved is ludicrous, the only intense bombing by USA there was against ISIS in the north helping the Kurds. Syria has demonstrated what a monster Putin really is.

Scary that people like you actually believe what you just typed.

Who are the Kurds aligned with now? Assad's Syrian govt.

Who armed and and trained Syrian rebels that went on to form ISIS? The USA.

But in all this you land at the utterly preposterous conclusion that it's Russia's fault.

Once again Russia were proven to have been on the right side in Syria. It was the US who armed, financed and trained Al Qaeda, Saddam Hussein and ISIS. It's the US who consistently swing their backing in behind the Saudis and Israelis.

Maybe open your eyes up and stop being as utterly naive and gullible as you are.

I am searching for any substance to your reply and canít find one that is factual but some of it is actually disturbing. I think the alliance of the peswharga with the Assad regime is your masterpiece. I take info of the stats section of amnesty int. Not of some fake news websites for 12 year olds. Does your career know your on here typing before you took your meds. The Kurds have only made an uneasy pact due to pressure from turkey after they overcome ISIS. Itís like saying Someone from south Armagh is allied to the British

Everything I have said is factual so to say you have searched and cannot find them is a blatant lie and a hint that you only want to deal in dishonesty here.

Training Syrian rebels https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/02/world/middleeast/cia-syria-rebel-arm-train-trump.html

Kurds joining forces with Assad https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/13/world/middleeast/syria-turkey-invasion-isis.html

CIA training Bin Laden https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna3340101

American support of Saddam https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/08/26/exclusive-cia-files-prove-america-helped-saddam-as-he-gassed-iran/

So please stop pedaling lies and ignorance.

Why donít you google civilian casualties through Russian bombing in Syria, after all is that not the narrative that prompted your idiotic response. Who trained who and when has nothing to do with my displeasure on Russiaís input in Syria and the USA only involvement. Only an idiot like yourself would negate the subject on hand and introduce irrelevant misdemeanors to strengthen a weak standpoint. Just out of curiosity what age are you, anything below 8 and Iíll give you some leeway for going completely of the narratives initially highlighted.

This thread is about Russophobia and you're doing a good job of articulating your ignorant and unfounded anti-Russian racism.

I think you are not grasping at the usual how old are you comment as a defence when you're the one that shown up to be both ignorant of the facts and gullible to Western propaganda.

I think your as big a sociopath as Putin or Trump by deflecting on the subject on hand so Iíll ask you like I would ask a small child. Do you think bombing of civilian housing and schools full of children is warranted by a country such as Russia. I donít expect a straight answer but just another counter point that evades the morality of the atrocity being discussed. I really think you need help in every sense of the word.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: tonto1888 on February 16, 2021, 05:30:25 PM
The  bombing of children and civilians in Aleppo and supporting the Assad regime finished me with Russia. To put it down to a proxy war where everyone is involved is ludicrous, the only intense bombing by USA there was against ISIS in the north helping the Kurds. Syria has demonstrated what a monster Putin really is.

Scary that people like you actually believe what you just typed.

Who are the Kurds aligned with now? Assad's Syrian govt.

Who armed and and trained Syrian rebels that went on to form ISIS? The USA.

But in all this you land at the utterly preposterous conclusion that it's Russia's fault.

Once again Russia were proven to have been on the right side in Syria. It was the US who armed, financed and trained Al Qaeda, Saddam Hussein and ISIS. It's the US who consistently swing their backing in behind the Saudis and Israelis.

Maybe open your eyes up and stop being as utterly naive and gullible as you are.

Itís not as easy as this. There are plenty of Kurds opposed to Assad.

Also worth looking at why they made a deal with Assad
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/syria-why-the-kurds-had-little-option-but-to-do-a-deal-with-bashar-al-assad-125333
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 16, 2021, 05:38:17 PM
Angelo was the information incorrect on the Amnesty international website? And if so can you send me links to disprove it. No deflection please or whataboutery 
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 16, 2021, 06:03:27 PM
The  bombing of children and civilians in Aleppo and supporting the Assad regime finished me with Russia. To put it down to a proxy war where everyone is involved is ludicrous, the only intense bombing by USA there was against ISIS in the north helping the Kurds. Syria has demonstrated what a monster Putin really is.

Scary that people like you actually believe what you just typed.

Who are the Kurds aligned with now? Assad's Syrian govt.

Who armed and and trained Syrian rebels that went on to form ISIS? The USA.

But in all this you land at the utterly preposterous conclusion that it's Russia's fault.

Once again Russia were proven to have been on the right side in Syria. It was the US who armed, financed and trained Al Qaeda, Saddam Hussein and ISIS. It's the US who consistently swing their backing in behind the Saudis and Israelis.

Maybe open your eyes up and stop being as utterly naive and gullible as you are.

I am searching for any substance to your reply and canít find one that is factual but some of it is actually disturbing. I think the alliance of the peswharga with the Assad regime is your masterpiece. I take info of the stats section of amnesty int. Not of some fake news websites for 12 year olds. Does your career know your on here typing before you took your meds. The Kurds have only made an uneasy pact due to pressure from turkey after they overcome ISIS. Itís like saying Someone from south Armagh is allied to the British

Everything I have said is factual so to say you have searched and cannot find them is a blatant lie and a hint that you only want to deal in dishonesty here.

Training Syrian rebels https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/02/world/middleeast/cia-syria-rebel-arm-train-trump.html

Kurds joining forces with Assad https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/13/world/middleeast/syria-turkey-invasion-isis.html

CIA training Bin Laden https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna3340101

American support of Saddam https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/08/26/exclusive-cia-files-prove-america-helped-saddam-as-he-gassed-iran/

So please stop pedaling lies and ignorance.

Why donít you google civilian casualties through Russian bombing in Syria, after all is that not the narrative that prompted your idiotic response. Who trained who and when has nothing to do with my displeasure on Russiaís input in Syria and the USA only involvement. Only an idiot like yourself would negate the subject on hand and introduce irrelevant misdemeanors to strengthen a weak standpoint. Just out of curiosity what age are you, anything below 8 and Iíll give you some leeway for going completely of the narratives initially highlighted.

This thread is about Russophobia and you're doing a good job of articulating your ignorant and unfounded anti-Russian racism.

I think you are not grasping at the usual how old are you comment as a defence when you're the one that shown up to be both ignorant of the facts and gullible to Western propaganda.

I think your as big a sociopath as Putin or Trump by deflecting on the subject on hand so Iíll ask you like I would ask a small child. Do you think bombing of civilian housing and schools full of children is warranted by a country such as Russia. I donít expect a straight answer but just another counter point that evades the morality of the atrocity being discussed. I really think you need help in every sense of the word.

I think when it comes to the West, Russia have consistently been on the right side of conflicts. The West backed Israel are allow bomb hospitals and starve children in Palestine without any of the big Western nations taking sanctions. It's disgusting.

Russia far more moral backbone than the West and that's a fact.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: north_antrim_hound on February 16, 2021, 06:31:10 PM
So your evading the question by highlighting things I agree with. Iíve never endorsed whatís going on with the West and the oppression of the Palestinian people so why are you bringing that up, hold on I know why. Your one of those clowns who can do anything but answer a straight question so weíll leave it there.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: seafoid on February 16, 2021, 07:06:33 PM
Russia's actions in Chechnya were barbaric. There are no good guys when it comes to power.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 16, 2021, 07:23:34 PM
Good to see boundaries have been set. I think everyone would agree using nuclear weapons is crossing a line

Watched a programme on this recently actually, the point of the show wasn't actually so as the bombs were to finish off the Japanese but to stop the Russian advance that was coming to East Asia and stop another de facto set of satellites. I genuinely never had thought of that until then.

I wouldn't have thought that either. For me I was always thought it was done to save American lives. The invasions of the japanese islands one at time was costing them huge numbers of lives and dropping the atomic bombs was a way of ending the war quickly without risking more Americans

That's the official version that Americans are taught. The truth is Japan had been trying to surrender for months but the yanks kept rejecting every offer on whatever technicalities they could find. Truman just wanted to do a ruthless display of power like Tarkin at Alderaan.

The Americans also constructed a test site that closely modeled the construction of Japanese homes and used it to perfect their incendiary bombs so that they could start a firestorm. The nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki got the world's attention, but the firebombing of Tokyo with conventional weapons killed far more civilians, and they were deliberately targeted.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Look-Up! on February 17, 2021, 01:15:31 AM
The nuking of Japan was never about winning the war, they had it long won and knew it. It was sending a message to Russia about division of the spoils. Both of them were in an arms race, there was a new world order coming, there had to be a top dog and both of them knew it. America cracked the bomb first, it's really that simple.

There can be no justification for what the Americans did with the bomb. Had Russia been the first to develop it the outcome would have been similar or worse, but certainly no better. They experimented on their own population with nuclear bomb testing FFS!!! Those Japanese civilians paid a terrible price and who knows what they bought with their lives. Maybe they bought all of our safety. Humans are competitive and have a terrible urge to destroy each other. Nuclear weapons are a huge deterrent to all out war. Without that deterrent who knows what we would have got up to for the last 70 odd years but it's pretty apparent to me that humans can be conditioned to do or believe anything with the correct propaganda.

As for Russophobia, exactly what kind of propaganda would you expect in the West? If you want anti-western propaganda to be main stream you need to move further East! Both sides engage in it equally, both sides are essentially Imperialist Superpowers.

Which country would I rather reside in? USA without question, much more stable country. Russia is probably pretty decent to live in ATM but it has a very chaotic history and memories of turmoil, hardship and bread queues are fresh in the memory. It's why someone like Putin is popular and why they fear a post Putin era. It's also why someone like Putin, probably wisely, is reluctant to lose power as I would say he has a long list of very dangerous enemies, all fellow countrymen. 

 As for who is the less evil or morally superior? It would be infinitively preferable to be enemy of neither, and if you are, pray you're under the umbrella of the other.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 17, 2021, 09:25:07 AM
So your evading the question by highlighting things I agree with. Iíve never endorsed whatís going on with the West and the oppression of the Palestinian people so why are you bringing that up, hold on I know why. Your one of those clowns who can do anything but answer a straight question so weíll leave it there.

When it comes down to it Russia has far more integrity and moral superiority than the US. It's a fact.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 17, 2021, 09:46:35 AM
So your evading the question by highlighting things I agree with. Iíve never endorsed whatís going on with the West and the oppression of the Palestinian people so why are you bringing that up, hold on I know why. Your one of those clowns who can do anything but answer a straight question so weíll leave it there.

When it comes down to it Russia has far more integrity and moral superiority than the US. It's a fact.

But when it actually really comes down to it, nobody outside these places really give a fook
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: seafoid on February 17, 2021, 10:01:15 AM
So your evading the question by highlighting things I agree with. Iíve never endorsed whatís going on with the West and the oppression of the Palestinian people so why are you bringing that up, hold on I know why. Your one of those clowns who can do anything but answer a straight question so weíll leave it there.

When it comes down to it Russia has far more integrity and moral superiority than the US. It's a fact.
Give 10 examples for each
Otherwise STFU
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: johnnycool on February 17, 2021, 11:14:10 AM
So your evading the question by highlighting things I agree with. Iíve never endorsed whatís going on with the West and the oppression of the Palestinian people so why are you bringing that up, hold on I know why. Your one of those clowns who can do anything but answer a straight question so weíll leave it there.

When it comes down to it Russia has far more integrity and moral superiority than the US. It's a fact.

That's hardly a high bar all the same.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Rossfan on February 17, 2021, 11:24:05 AM
Coukd someone with time on their hands put all  Angela's "facts" in one thread?
We could all have a read of it and get a good laugh  whenever we'd be feeling down  ;D
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Taylor on February 17, 2021, 12:27:26 PM
Coukd someone with time on their hands put all  Angela's "facts" in one thread?
We could all have a read of it and get a good laugh  whenever we'd be feeling down  ;D

Me first........

Angelo Fact - COC did not win ANY of the free kicks he has scored

Reality - COC won and pointed the first score of the 2019 AIF
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 17, 2021, 01:31:23 PM
So your evading the question by highlighting things I agree with. Iíve never endorsed whatís going on with the West and the oppression of the Palestinian people so why are you bringing that up, hold on I know why. Your one of those clowns who can do anything but answer a straight question so weíll leave it there.

When it comes down to it Russia has far more integrity and moral superiority than the US. It's a fact.
Give 10 examples for each
Otherwise STFU

Cleary you are some sort of crazed neo-liberal who think the West have a divine right to meddle in democracy. Russia have a patch on America when it comes to blood on their hands, what history generally tells us is that Russia has been on the right side of these conflicts.

1. Hiroshima/Nagasaki
2. Vietnam
3. Assisting Pinochet overthrow the government and backing his reign in Chile
4. Al Qaeda
5. Backing Israel in the middle east
6. Backing Saddam in the war with Iran
7. Bay of Pigs
8. Invasion of Iraq
9. Backing of Noreiga
10. Syria
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: seafoid on February 17, 2021, 02:00:06 PM
So your evading the question by highlighting things I agree with. Iíve never endorsed whatís going on with the West and the oppression of the Palestinian people so why are you bringing that up, hold on I know why. Your one of those clowns who can do anything but answer a straight question so weíll leave it there.

When it comes down to it Russia has far more integrity and moral superiority than the US. It's a fact.
Give 10 examples for each
Otherwise STFU

Cleary you are some sort of crazed neo-liberal who think the West have a divine right to meddle in democracy. Russia have a patch on America when it comes to blood on their hands, what history generally tells us is that Russia has been on the right side of these conflicts.

1. Hiroshima/Nagasaki
2. Vietnam
3. Assisting Pinochet overthrow the government and backing his reign in Chile
4. Al Qaeda
5. Backing Israel in the middle east
6. Backing Saddam in the war with Iran
7. Bay of Pigs
8. Invasion of Iraq
9. Backing of Noreiga
10. Syria

The Soviet Union backed Israel post 1948
I don't see any moral decisions of Russia highlighted.

Why was Chechnya invaded?
Were barrel bombs in Syria a good idea ?
Was it fair to take German land as far as the Oder in 1945?
How is Kaliningrad going ?

Why didn't you choose Bhutan ?
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 17, 2021, 02:10:04 PM
So your evading the question by highlighting things I agree with. Iíve never endorsed whatís going on with the West and the oppression of the Palestinian people so why are you bringing that up, hold on I know why. Your one of those clowns who can do anything but answer a straight question so weíll leave it there.

When it comes down to it Russia has far more integrity and moral superiority than the US. It's a fact.
Give 10 examples for each
Otherwise STFU

Cleary you are some sort of crazed neo-liberal who think the West have a divine right to meddle in democracy. Russia have a patch on America when it comes to blood on their hands, what history generally tells us is that Russia has been on the right side of these conflicts.

1. Hiroshima/Nagasaki
2. Vietnam
3. Assisting Pinochet overthrow the government and backing his reign in Chile
4. Al Qaeda
5. Backing Israel in the middle east
6. Backing Saddam in the war with Iran
7. Bay of Pigs
8. Invasion of Iraq
9. Backing of Noreiga
10. Syria

The Soviet Union backed Israel post 1948
I don't see any moral decisions of Russia highlighted.

Why was Chechnya invaded?
Were barrel bombs in Syria a good idea ?
Was it fair to take German land as far as the Oder in 1945?
How is Kaliningrad going ?

Why didn't you choose Bhutan ?

You have just proven my point there.

A lot of those things you have referenced are hotly disputed and much of it western propaganda.
You haven't even been able to list 10.
And they don't even come close to the American savagery I've listed above.

This isn't even close, as far as morality and integrity go, Russia have it in bucket loads when you compare and contrast it to Americans.

You just seem to be a Western shill who will try and defend and justify all the inherent evil of the USA.



Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 17, 2021, 02:15:20 PM
You just have to look at Iran to see what absolute scum the Americans are in relation to their foreign policy.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 17, 2021, 02:37:37 PM
Did the Russia invade any country after WW2? And if they did, was that ok? I'm not up to scratch on that bit  ;)
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Louther on February 17, 2021, 02:57:22 PM
Would the Russian Ultras battering the English round Marseille at the Euros in 2016 be on their naughty or nice list?
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 17, 2021, 04:23:03 PM
Would the Russian Ultras battering the English round Marseille at the Euros in 2016 be on their naughty or nice list?

No, because that was the English Ultras. Fair fight. Resounding TKO for the Russians.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Louther on February 17, 2021, 04:37:20 PM
Would the Russian Ultras battering the English round Marseille at the Euros in 2016 be on their naughty or nice list?

No, because that was the English Ultras. Fair fight. Resounding TKO for the Russians.

 ;D It wasnít that fair really Beer Belly Yobs FC V UFC

Big win for the Russians alright.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: seafoid on February 17, 2021, 04:42:32 PM
So your evading the question by highlighting things I agree with. Iíve never endorsed whatís going on with the West and the oppression of the Palestinian people so why are you bringing that up, hold on I know why. Your one of those clowns who can do anything but answer a straight question so weíll leave it there.

When it comes down to it Russia has far more integrity and moral superiority than the US. It's a fact.
Give 10 examples for each
Otherwise STFU

Cleary you are some sort of crazed neo-liberal who think the West have a divine right to meddle in democracy. Russia have a patch on America when it comes to blood on their hands, what history generally tells us is that Russia has been on the right side of these conflicts.

1. Hiroshima/Nagasaki
2. Vietnam
3. Assisting Pinochet overthrow the government and backing his reign in Chile
4. Al Qaeda
5. Backing Israel in the middle east
6. Backing Saddam in the war with Iran
7. Bay of Pigs
8. Invasion of Iraq
9. Backing of Noreiga
10. Syria

The Soviet Union backed Israel post 1948
I don't see any moral decisions of Russia highlighted.

Why was Chechnya invaded?
Were barrel bombs in Syria a good idea ?
Was it fair to take German land as far as the Oder in 1945?
How is Kaliningrad going ?

Why didn't you choose Bhutan ?

You have just proven my point there.

A lot of those things you have referenced are hotly disputed and much of it western propaganda.
You haven't even been able to list 10.
And they don't even come close to the American savagery I've listed above.

This isn't even close, as far as morality and integrity go, Russia have it in bucket loads when you compare and contrast it to Americans.

You just seem to be a Western shill who will try and defend and justify all the inherent evil of the USA.
That's worse than teenage Syferus.

The Soviets occupied European countries after WW2
Many hundreds of thousands of people were murdered.
Putin was an officer in the KGB. I don't believe Biden did anything similar.
Looking for decency in realpolitik is a waste of time.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Rossfan on February 17, 2021, 05:15:21 PM
Murdered thousands of Polish army officers in Katyn 1939 or 40.
Halted advance on Warsaw to let the Germans wipe out the Polish Home Army.
Stole a load of Finnish territory
Seized the sovereign States of  Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania 1939 or 40
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: whitey on February 17, 2021, 05:17:22 PM
So your evading the question by highlighting things I agree with. Iíve never endorsed whatís going on with the West and the oppression of the Palestinian people so why are you bringing that up, hold on I know why. Your one of those clowns who can do anything but answer a straight question so weíll leave it there.

When it comes down to it Russia has far more integrity and moral superiority than the US. It's a fact.
Give 10 examples for each
Otherwise STFU

Cleary you are some sort of crazed neo-liberal who think the West have a divine right to meddle in democracy. Russia have a patch on America when it comes to blood on their hands, what history generally tells us is that Russia has been on the right side of these conflicts.

1. Hiroshima/Nagasaki
2. Vietnam
3. Assisting Pinochet overthrow the government and backing his reign in Chile
4. Al Qaeda
5. Backing Israel in the middle east
6. Backing Saddam in the war with Iran
7. Bay of Pigs
8. Invasion of Iraq
9. Backing of Noreiga
10. Syria

The Soviet Union backed Israel post 1948
I don't see any moral decisions of Russia highlighted.

Why was Chechnya invaded?
Were barrel bombs in Syria a good idea ?
Was it fair to take German land as far as the Oder in 1945?
How is Kaliningrad going ?

Why didn't you choose Bhutan ?

You have just proven my point there.

A lot of those things you have referenced are hotly disputed and much of it western propaganda.
You haven't even been able to list 10.
And they don't even come close to the American savagery I've listed above.

This isn't even close, as far as morality and integrity go, Russia have it in bucket loads when you compare and contrast it to Americans.

You just seem to be a Western shill who will try and defend and justify all the inherent evil of the USA.
That's worse than teenage Syferus.

The Soviets occupied European countries after WW2
Many hundreds of thousands of people were murdered.
Putin was an officer in the KGB. I don't believe Biden did anything similar.
Looking for decency in realpolitik is a waste of time.

He must have never heard of Pol Pot or Stalin
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: sid waddell on February 17, 2021, 05:19:40 PM
Sure the Russians collaborated with the Nazis
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 17, 2021, 05:46:51 PM
So your evading the question by highlighting things I agree with. Iíve never endorsed whatís going on with the West and the oppression of the Palestinian people so why are you bringing that up, hold on I know why. Your one of those clowns who can do anything but answer a straight question so weíll leave it there.

When it comes down to it Russia has far more integrity and moral superiority than the US. It's a fact.
Give 10 examples for each
Otherwise STFU

Cleary you are some sort of crazed neo-liberal who think the West have a divine right to meddle in democracy. Russia have a patch on America when it comes to blood on their hands, what history generally tells us is that Russia has been on the right side of these conflicts.

1. Hiroshima/Nagasaki
2. Vietnam
3. Assisting Pinochet overthrow the government and backing his reign in Chile
4. Al Qaeda
5. Backing Israel in the middle east
6. Backing Saddam in the war with Iran
7. Bay of Pigs
8. Invasion of Iraq
9. Backing of Noreiga
10. Syria

The Soviet Union backed Israel post 1948
I don't see any moral decisions of Russia highlighted.

Why was Chechnya invaded?
Were barrel bombs in Syria a good idea ?
Was it fair to take German land as far as the Oder in 1945?
How is Kaliningrad going ?

Why didn't you choose Bhutan ?

You have just proven my point there.

A lot of those things you have referenced are hotly disputed and much of it western propaganda.
You haven't even been able to list 10.
And they don't even come close to the American savagery I've listed above.

This isn't even close, as far as morality and integrity go, Russia have it in bucket loads when you compare and contrast it to Americans.

You just seem to be a Western shill who will try and defend and justify all the inherent evil of the USA.
That's worse than teenage Syferus.

The Soviets occupied European countries after WW2
Many hundreds of thousands of people were murdered.
Putin was an officer in the KGB. I don't believe Biden did anything similar.
Looking for decency in realpolitik is a waste of time.

Lots of conjecture and vagueness there. You are scraping the barrel there and still can't come up to any Russian foreign policy than comes near the American savagery.

Seeing a western still like you trying to defend the indefensible is amusing.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 17, 2021, 05:47:26 PM
The anti-Russian racists are out in force.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: whitey on February 17, 2021, 06:03:22 PM
Sure the Russians collaborated with the Nazis

Well they were National Socialists
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 17, 2021, 06:04:38 PM
It was the Russian who defeated the Nazis. But of course Western propaganda finds it difficult to accept.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 17, 2021, 06:42:34 PM
It was the Russian who defeated the Nazis. But of course Western propaganda finds it difficult to accept.

I would say your are right, the Russians were first to Berlin and didnít leave till 89, kept every country happy after that.

Did you think that was ok or just Western propaganda?
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: sid waddell on February 17, 2021, 06:55:33 PM
It was the Russian who defeated the Nazis. But of course Western propaganda finds it difficult to accept.
They certainly played a very large part in defeating the Nazis

They also collaborated with them
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 17, 2021, 06:59:53 PM
It was the Russian who defeated the Nazis. But of course Western propaganda finds it difficult to accept.

I would say your are right, the Russians were first to Berlin and didnít leave till 89, kept every country happy after that.

Did you think that was ok or just Western propaganda?

The Russians did a great job in WW2 and subsequently.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: seafoid on February 17, 2021, 07:30:52 PM
It was the Russian who defeated the Nazis. But of course Western propaganda finds it difficult to accept.
27 million dead.
The price was far too high and the group trauma continues.
Ireland knows all about group trauma from a long time ago and what it does

Here are 10 Soviet atrocities

Katyn, when the Polish officer class was destroyed
The deportation of the Crimean Tatars
The Ethnic cleansing of East Prussia and the Sudetenland etc
The murder of 20% of Estonia's population during Soviet occupation
The deportation of the Kulaks
The Ukrainian famine
Mass rapes of German civilians after WW2
Hungarian revolution 1956
Czechoslovak Revolution 1968
The murder of Raoul Wallenberg

As bad if not worse than anything the Yanks did
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 17, 2021, 07:45:40 PM
It was the Russian who defeated the Nazis. But of course Western propaganda finds it difficult to accept.

I would say your are right, the Russians were first to Berlin and didnít leave till 89, kept every country happy after that.

Did you think that was ok or just Western propaganda?

The Russians did a great job in WW2 and subsequently.

Subsequently stealing land, toppling governments building walls? Is that what you mean?
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 17, 2021, 08:10:46 PM
It was the Russian who defeated the Nazis. But of course Western propaganda finds it difficult to accept.
27 million dead.
The price was far too high and the group trauma continues.
Ireland knows all about group trauma from a long time ago and what it does

Here are 10 Soviet atrocities

Katyn, when the Polish officer class was destroyed
The deportation of the Crimean Tatars
The Ethnic cleansing of East Prussia and the Sudetenland etc
The murder of 20% of Estonia's population during Soviet occupation
The deportation of the Kulaks
The Ukrainian famine
Mass rapes of German civilians after WW2
Hungarian revolution 1956
Czechoslovak Revolution 1968
The murder of Raoul Wallenberg

As bad if not worse than anything the Yanks did

Sigh.

You seem to be a believer in fairytales, you actually believe the western propaganda in reference to all those events?

My, my, how gullible are you?

The fact that you are equating some of those fantasies to backing and making genocidal maniacs like Pinochet, Saddam and Noriega shows you for the the kind of poisonous neo-liberal views you uphold.

I've one question for you. Why do you hate people from third world countries?
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 17, 2021, 08:15:17 PM
Not going to answer? Ok
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: seafoid on February 17, 2021, 08:31:47 PM
It was the Russian who defeated the Nazis. But of course Western propaganda finds it difficult to accept.
27 million dead.
The price was far too high and the group trauma continues.
Ireland knows all about group trauma from a long time ago and what it does

Here are 10 Soviet atrocities

Katyn, when the Polish officer class was destroyed
The deportation of the Crimean Tatars
The Ethnic cleansing of East Prussia and the Sudetenland etc
The murder of 20% of Estonia's population during Soviet occupation
The deportation of the Kulaks
The Ukrainian famine
Mass rapes of German civilians after WW2
Hungarian revolution 1956
Czechoslovak Revolution 1968
The murder of Raoul Wallenberg

As bad if not worse than anything the Yanks did

Sigh.

You seem to be a believer in fairytales, you actually believe the western propaganda in reference to all those events?

My, my, how gullible are you?

The fact that you are equating some of those fantasies to backing and making genocidal maniacs like Pinochet, Saddam and Noriega shows you for the the kind of poisonous neo-liberal views you uphold.

I've one question for you. Why do you hate people from third world countries?
Have you ever lived in a third world country? I have lived in 3.
You are just an arsehole.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Look-Up! on February 17, 2021, 08:36:34 PM
Stalin definitely defeated Hitler but it was sheer weight of numbers kept the Russians in the game and eventually weather and diesel, or lack of it to be more precise, conspired to defeat Uncle Joe's one time ally.
To try and attribute the victory to any great strategy on his part, or to try and paint Stalin as anything other than an unschooled, unhinged ape would be a bit disingenuous to history.
The Russian liberators were an undisciplined degenerate mob who done unspeakable horrors. Maybe war does that to people but the Soviet way of things certainly contributed. They weren't helped either by Stalin's constant paranoia and by that stage a lot of the military's best generals and leaders had been "reassigned".
Hitler was the great menace up to that point but I think the western leaders got an eye opener in the summer of 45 when they actually had to deal with Stalin. 
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 17, 2021, 08:53:58 PM
It was the Russian who defeated the Nazis. But of course Western propaganda finds it difficult to accept.
27 million dead.
The price was far too high and the group trauma continues.
Ireland knows all about group trauma from a long time ago and what it does

Here are 10 Soviet atrocities

Katyn, when the Polish officer class was destroyed
The deportation of the Crimean Tatars
The Ethnic cleansing of East Prussia and the Sudetenland etc
The murder of 20% of Estonia's population during Soviet occupation
The deportation of the Kulaks
The Ukrainian famine
Mass rapes of German civilians after WW2
Hungarian revolution 1956
Czechoslovak Revolution 1968
The murder of Raoul Wallenberg

As bad if not worse than anything the Yanks did

Sigh.

You seem to be a believer in fairytales, you actually believe the western propaganda in reference to all those events?

My, my, how gullible are you?

The fact that you are equating some of those fantasies to backing and making genocidal maniacs like Pinochet, Saddam and Noriega shows you for the the kind of poisonous neo-liberal views you uphold.

I've one question for you. Why do you hate people from third world countries?
Have you ever lived in a third world country? I have lived in 3.
You are just an arsehole.

Is that why you hate people from third world countries so?

I think it shows the kind of person you are when you resort to insults when you are exposed for the Western zealot you are.

Continue to throw your lot in with the genocidal American scum who use third world countries as a pawn in their little games.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 17, 2021, 08:55:30 PM
Stalin definitely defeated Hitler but it was sheer weight of numbers kept the Russians in the game and eventually weather and diesel, or lack of it to be more precise, conspired to defeat Uncle Joe's one time ally.
To try and attribute the victory to any great strategy on his part, or to try and paint Stalin as anything other than an unschooled, unhinged ape would be a bit disingenuous to history.
The Russian liberators were an undisciplined degenerate mob who done unspeakable horrors. Maybe war does that to people but the Soviet way of things certainly contributed. They weren't helped either by Stalin's constant paranoia and by that stage a lot of the military's best generals and leaders had been "reassigned".
Hitler was the great menace up to that point but I think the western leaders got an eye opener in the summer of 45 when they actually had to deal with Stalin.

Russia are the reason we Nazi rule did not dominate.

Sadly some of the Russophobes on here would have longed for kissing Hitler's ring given the revisionism on display.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 17, 2021, 09:04:12 PM
Still not answering? Ok
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: seafoid on February 17, 2021, 09:07:52 PM
It was the Russian who defeated the Nazis. But of course Western propaganda finds it difficult to accept.
27 million dead.
The price was far too high and the group trauma continues.
Ireland knows all about group trauma from a long time ago and what it does

Here are 10 Soviet atrocities

Katyn, when the Polish officer class was destroyed
The deportation of the Crimean Tatars
The Ethnic cleansing of East Prussia and the Sudetenland etc
The murder of 20% of Estonia's population during Soviet occupation
The deportation of the Kulaks
The Ukrainian famine
Mass rapes of German civilians after WW2
Hungarian revolution 1956
Czechoslovak Revolution 1968
The murder of Raoul Wallenberg

As bad if not worse than anything the Yanks did

Sigh.

You seem to be a believer in fairytales, you actually believe the western propaganda in reference to all those events?

My, my, how gullible are you?

The fact that you are equating some of those fantasies to backing and making genocidal maniacs like Pinochet, Saddam and Noriega shows you for the the kind of poisonous neo-liberal views you uphold.

I've one question for you. Why do you hate people from third world countries?
Have you ever lived in a third world country? I have lived in 3.
You are just an arsehole.

Is that why you hate people from third world countries so?

I think it shows the kind of person you are when you resort to insults when you are exposed for the Western zealot you are.

Continue to throw your lot in with the genocidal American scum who use third world countries as a pawn in their little games.
I've been on this board for 24 years and I know the psychological profile of the arsehole who posts questions and insists on answers then baits and switches to something else and always has the ad hom at the ready.
It's the troll profile.

You don't know anything about Russia, troll.

Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Look-Up! on February 17, 2021, 09:08:51 PM
Stalin definitely defeated Hitler but it was sheer weight of numbers kept the Russians in the game and eventually weather and diesel, or lack of it to be more precise, conspired to defeat Uncle Joe's one time ally.
To try and attribute the victory to any great strategy on his part, or to try and paint Stalin as anything other than an unschooled, unhinged ape would be a bit disingenuous to history.
The Russian liberators were an undisciplined degenerate mob who done unspeakable horrors. Maybe war does that to people but the Soviet way of things certainly contributed. They weren't helped either by Stalin's constant paranoia and by that stage a lot of the military's best generals and leaders had been "reassigned".
Hitler was the great menace up to that point but I think the western leaders got an eye opener in the summer of 45 when they actually had to deal with Stalin.

Russia are the reason we Nazi rule did not dominate.

Sadly some of the Russophobes on here would have longed for kissing Hitler's ring given the revisionism on display.
Possibly. Same way America to be the reason we didn't live under Stalin's yoke. If you think that would have been a good thing maybe they're not the only ones engaging in revisionism.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: sid waddell on February 17, 2021, 09:14:34 PM
we Nazi
A Freudian slip if ever there was one
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 17, 2021, 09:25:26 PM
It was the Russian who defeated the Nazis. But of course Western propaganda finds it difficult to accept.
27 million dead.
The price was far too high and the group trauma continues.
Ireland knows all about group trauma from a long time ago and what it does

Here are 10 Soviet atrocities

Katyn, when the Polish officer class was destroyed
The deportation of the Crimean Tatars
The Ethnic cleansing of East Prussia and the Sudetenland etc
The murder of 20% of Estonia's population during Soviet occupation
The deportation of the Kulaks
The Ukrainian famine
Mass rapes of German civilians after WW2
Hungarian revolution 1956
Czechoslovak Revolution 1968
The murder of Raoul Wallenberg

As bad if not worse than anything the Yanks did

Sigh.

You seem to be a believer in fairytales, you actually believe the western propaganda in reference to all those events?

My, my, how gullible are you?

The fact that you are equating some of those fantasies to backing and making genocidal maniacs like Pinochet, Saddam and Noriega shows you for the the kind of poisonous neo-liberal views you uphold.

I've one question for you. Why do you hate people from third world countries?
Have you ever lived in a third world country? I have lived in 3.
You are just an arsehole.

Is that why you hate people from third world countries so?

I think it shows the kind of person you are when you resort to insults when you are exposed for the Western zealot you are.

Continue to throw your lot in with the genocidal American scum who use third world countries as a pawn in their little games.
I've been on this board for 24 years and I know the psychological profile of the arsehole who posts questions and insists on answers then baits and switches to something else and always has the ad hom at the ready.
It's the troll profile.

You don't know anything about Russia, troll.

24 years of posting twee nonsense. Do you want an award or something?

You know f**k all, that much is patently evident from your offerings here.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 17, 2021, 09:28:23 PM
Angelo are you running away? Just answer. Many thanks
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: sid waddell on February 17, 2021, 09:30:00 PM
He seems very, very rattled
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 17, 2021, 09:35:15 PM
Angelo are you running away? Just answer. Many thanks

What have I to answer?
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: sid waddell on February 17, 2021, 09:39:03 PM
Angelo are you running away? Just answer. Many thanks

What have I to answer?
You might start by acknowledging some historical facts

Like Russia collaborating with the Nazis

Or the Holomodor

Or the occupation of Eastern Europe for over four decades

It seems you don't acknowledge any of these, and a lot more
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 17, 2021, 09:40:35 PM
Angelo are you running away? Just answer. Many thanks

What have I to answer?
You might start by acknowledging some historical facts

Like Russia collaborating with the Nazis

Or the Holomodor

Or the occupation of Eastern Europe for over four decades

It seems you don't acknowledge any of these, and a lot more

You seem to have a loose grasp of historical facts.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: sid waddell on February 17, 2021, 09:44:10 PM
He's running away again, like Russian soldiers in 1917
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 17, 2021, 09:46:33 PM
It was the Russian who defeated the Nazis. But of course Western propaganda finds it difficult to accept.

I would say your are right, the Russians were first to Berlin and didnít leave till 89, kept every country happy after that.

Did you think that was ok or just Western propaganda?

The Russians did a great job in WW2 and subsequently.

Subsequently stealing land, toppling governments building walls? Is that what you mean?


The bit in black
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 17, 2021, 09:50:19 PM
It was the Russian who defeated the Nazis. But of course Western propaganda finds it difficult to accept.

I would say your are right, the Russians were first to Berlin and didnít leave till 89, kept every country happy after that.

Did you think that was ok or just Western propaganda?

The Russians did a great job in WW2 and subsequently.

Subsequently stealing land, toppling governments building walls? Is that what you mean?


The bit in black
.

The Russians kept peace in Europe.

But you guys keep revising history and pedalling your disgusting anti-Russian racism.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 17, 2021, 09:54:38 PM
It was the Russian who defeated the Nazis. But of course Western propaganda finds it difficult to accept.

I would say your are right, the Russians were first to Berlin and didnít leave till 89, kept every country happy after that.

Did you think that was ok or just Western propaganda?

The Russians did a great job in WW2 and subsequently.

Subsequently stealing land, toppling governments building walls? Is that what you mean?


The bit in black
.

The Russians kept peace in Europe.

But you guys keep revising history and pedalling your disgusting anti-Russian racism.

Peace?

Right ok. You are out doing yourself on that one...

What books are you reading from? Can I get some names on the peace keeping duties the Russians did after the war.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: seafoid on February 17, 2021, 10:00:09 PM
Angelo are you running away? Just answer. Many thanks

What have I to answer?
You might start by acknowledging some historical facts

Like Russia collaborating with the Nazis

Or the Holomodor

Or the occupation of Eastern Europe for over four decades

It seems you don't acknowledge any of these, and a lot more
I
Trolls don't deal in facts


Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 17, 2021, 10:04:48 PM
It was the Russian who defeated the Nazis. But of course Western propaganda finds it difficult to accept.

I would say your are right, the Russians were first to Berlin and didnít leave till 89, kept every country happy after that.

Did you think that was ok or just Western propaganda?

The Russians did a great job in WW2 and subsequently.

Subsequently stealing land, toppling governments building walls? Is that what you mean?


The bit in black
.

The Russians kept peace in Europe.

But you guys keep revising history and pedalling your disgusting anti-Russian racism.

Peace?

Right ok. You are out doing yourself on that one...

What books are you reading from? Can I get some names on the peace keeping duties the Russians did after the war.

I don't read western fairytales. Do you ever look for other sources or do you just believe all the propaganda you read?
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 17, 2021, 10:08:07 PM
Iím not asking about western fairytales, Iím very keen on reading the books that you read so I can educate myself on them. Like Iíve said I think Russia is a great place. So help me out, youíve obviously read some great books on how good they were at keeping peace after the war in those countries like Germany
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: sid waddell on February 17, 2021, 10:09:40 PM
Angelo are you running away? Just answer. Many thanks

What have I to answer?
You might start by acknowledging some historical facts

Like Russia collaborating with the Nazis

Or the Holomodor

Or the occupation of Eastern Europe for over four decades

It seems you don't acknowledge any of these, and a lot more
I
Trolls don't deal in facts
Especially imperialist trolls
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 17, 2021, 10:16:24 PM
Iím not asking about western fairytales, Iím very keen on reading the books that you read so I can educate myself on them. Like Iíve said I think Russia is a great place. So help me out, youíve obviously read some great books on how good they were at keeping peace after the war in those countries like Germany


How many European wars have there been since WW2?
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 17, 2021, 10:21:53 PM
Iím not asking about western fairytales, Iím very keen on reading the books that you read so I can educate myself on them. Like Iíve said I think Russia is a great place. So help me out, youíve obviously read some great books on how good they were at keeping peace after the war in those countries like Germany


How many European wars have there been since WW2?

Is that the name of the book?  I canít find it, link?

Lots, anytime an occupied country gains its freedom there has been usually an internal war. There was one here funny enough, I donít know if you heard about though. Youíll find it under Western fairytales.

So Iíll ask again can you give me a name of a few of the books you read about how good Russia was at looking after other countries that didnít belong to them.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 17, 2021, 10:25:28 PM
Iím not asking about western fairytales, Iím very keen on reading the books that you read so I can educate myself on them. Like Iíve said I think Russia is a great place. So help me out, youíve obviously read some great books on how good they were at keeping peace after the war in those countries like Germany


How many European wars have there been since WW2?

Is that the name of the book?  I canít find it, link?

Lots, anytime an occupied country gains its freedom there has been usually an internal war. There was one here funny enough, I donít know if you heard about though. Youíll find it under Western fairytales.

So Iíll ask again can you give me a name of a few of the books you read about how good Russia was at looking after other countries that didnít belong to them.

No it's a product of the peace and stability Russia has kept in Europe since WW2.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 17, 2021, 10:28:47 PM
So you donít have that book on how well they achieved that? Can you even give me a link to it?

Or is it just your belief?

 Im defo not into the West capitalists. So Iím keen to get that other view, if youíre not able to link it to me thatís fine.

Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 17, 2021, 10:31:46 PM
The book might be beside ďTyrone club football, best club teams in UlsterĒ
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: bennydorano on February 17, 2021, 10:35:40 PM
I have 'The Last Empire' The Final days of the Soviet Union by Serhii Plokhy. I've only really read the foreword and it's just a roll call of nefarious activities Russia have recently been up to in Checnya,  Georgia & Ukraine.

Probably a Lundy tho.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: sid waddell on February 17, 2021, 10:35:45 PM
The book might be beside ďTyrone club football, best club teams in UlsterĒ
Probably beside "Mussolini - legend, patriot, hero"
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Louther on February 17, 2021, 10:42:28 PM
Maybe the Russians went on holidays from their peacekeeping duties when the Balkans blew up that time.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: sid waddell on February 17, 2021, 10:42:52 PM
I have 'The Last Empire' The Final days of the Soviet Union by Serhii Plokhy. I've only really ready the foreword and it's just a roll call of nefarious activities Russia have recently been up to in Checnya,  Georgia & Ukraine.

Probably a Lundy tho.
"The Future Is History" by Masha Gessen and "The Road To Unfreedom" by Timothy Snyder are well worth reading, read both in the last 18 months

Peter Pomerantsev's stuff is supposed to be very good as well, I have "Nothing Is True And Everything Is Possible" but haven't got around to reading it yet

There's a fierce air of repressed homosexuality about Putinism and contemporary Russian nationalism
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 17, 2021, 10:44:01 PM
I have 'The Last Empire' The Final days of the Soviet Union by Serhii Plokhy. I've only really ready the foreword and it's just a roll call of nefarious activities Russia have recently been up to in Checnya,  Georgia & Ukraine.

Probably a Lundy tho.

Seems a decent read in fairness. I was working night shift during all of that and had the bbc world service on and was very interested during that period.

But this writer would be looked upon as a westerner

Serhii Plokhy is the Mykhailo Hrushevsky Professor of Ukrainian History and Director of the Ukrainian Research Institute at Harvard University, where he was also named Walter Channing Cabot Fellow in 2013. A leading authority on Eastern Europe, he has lived and taught in Ukraine, Canada, and the United States. He has published extensively in English, Ukrainian, and Russian. For three successive years (2002-2005) his books won first prize of the American Association for Ukrainian Studies.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 18, 2021, 12:07:10 AM
It was the Russian who defeated the Nazis. But of course Western propaganda finds it difficult to accept.

There's a lot of truth in that. WWII was originally going to be about Hitler expanding Germany's influence to the East. He wanted access to enough land to feed growing German industrialized cities, and he thought he could grab it from the undefendable Eastern part of Europe. Knocking France and its neighbors out of contention was a pre-emptive rear-guard action and incidental to his main objective. When Britain entered the war Hitler was like "WTF? What do the English care about Poland? What's it got to do with them?"
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: seafoid on February 18, 2021, 07:46:08 AM
I have 'The Last Empire' The Final days of the Soviet Union by Serhii Plokhy. I've only really ready the foreword and it's just a roll call of nefarious activities Russia have recently been up to in Checnya,  Georgia & Ukraine.

Probably a Lundy tho.
Bloodlands by Timothy Snyder is very good
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: sid waddell on February 18, 2021, 09:50:57 AM
It was the Russian who defeated the Nazis. But of course Western propaganda finds it difficult to accept.

There's a lot of truth in that. WWII was originally going to be about Hitler expanding Germany's influence to the East. He wanted access to enough land to feed growing German industrialized cities, and he thought he could grab it from the undefendable Eastern part of Europe. Knocking France and its neighbors out of contention was a pre-emptive rear-guard action and incidental to his main objective. When Britain entered the war Hitler was like "WTF? What do the English care about Poland? What's it got to do with them?"
I don't think anybody who knows the first thing about World War II finds it difficult to accept the Soviets played a huge part in defeating the Nazis, it's a simple fact

The only people who deny that are those irretrievably down the rabbit hole of American or British nationalism

The reason why Hitler was surprised at the Brits declaring war on the Nazis was that Hitler was a fool

As was Stalin, who was caught completely unaware when Hitler ended their shameful collaboration in June 1941

For all their bravado, these fellas had all the smarts of somebody who gives their bank details to a Nigerian prince


Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Rossfan on February 18, 2021, 11:02:05 AM
Hitler thought the Brits and French would repeat their roll over on Czechoslovakia and let him belt away in Poland.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: seafoid on February 18, 2021, 11:51:52 AM
Hitler wanted to break away from Western capitalism by turning the Soviet Union into a source of oil and food for Germany.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: five points on February 18, 2021, 12:14:33 PM

"The Future Is History" by Masha Gessen and "The Road To Unfreedom" by Timothy Snyder are well worth reading, read both in the last 18 months

Peter Pomerantsev's stuff is supposed to be very good as well, I have "Nothing Is True And Everything Is Possible" but haven't got around to reading it yet

There's a fierce air of repressed homosexuality about Putinism and contemporary Russian nationalism

It's very, very good.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: seafoid on February 22, 2021, 01:05:06 PM
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-44993571
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on February 22, 2021, 01:13:16 PM
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-44993571

Do you think screws torturing prisoners is something unique to Russia? Or do you think it happens in the Western World.

Plenty of Republican prisoners would vouch for the torture they were subjected to at Portlaoise prison during The Troubles. Did you beloved Free State do anything on the matter?
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 22, 2021, 01:56:12 PM
Hitler thought the Brits and French would repeat their roll over on Czechoslovakia and let him belt away in Poland.

I think it was Goering who said in his trial after the war, why would Germany not go after Poland since they got the Czech Republic so easy, it only encouraged Hitler. Who knows what would have been if a different course was taken?
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 22, 2021, 02:07:44 PM
It was the Russian who defeated the Nazis. But of course Western propaganda finds it difficult to accept.

There's a lot of truth in that. WWII was originally going to be about Hitler expanding Germany's influence to the East. He wanted access to enough land to feed growing German industrialized cities, and he thought he could grab it from the undefendable Eastern part of Europe. Knocking France and its neighbors out of contention was a pre-emptive rear-guard action and incidental to his main objective. When Britain entered the war Hitler was like "WTF? What do the English care about Poland? What's it got to do with them?"
I don't think anybody who knows the first thing about World War II finds it difficult to accept the Soviets played a huge part in defeating the Nazis, it's a simple fact

The only people who deny that are those irretrievably down the rabbit hole of American or British nationalism

The reason why Hitler was surprised at the Brits declaring war on the Nazis was that Hitler was a fool

As was Stalin, who was caught completely unaware when Hitler ended their shameful collaboration in June 1941

For all their bravado, these fellas had all the smarts of somebody who gives their bank details to a Nigerian prince

Not sure about that Sid, it's strange to say it, but I don't think by any means Hitler was a fool. He was planning for war from before he took power.

He was brave, daring.....(along with all the rest...) but foolish? History would have told him going East only ends one way, but he had Western Europe beaten by 1940. What else could be do only keep the foot on the gas? Medically he was not Hitler by the end of the war for I suppose various reasons. Certainly not the Hitler of the early to mid 30s.

As for Stalin....he got lucky, locked himself away for days when the inevitable happened. Only a inexhaustible human quicksand saved him and Russia from falling.

Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: sid waddell on February 22, 2021, 03:03:55 PM
So Hitler was astonished when the Brits declared war

He couldn't understand the consequences of invading the Soviet Union

And Stalin couldn't believe that Hitler would invade

And you say these people weren't fools

And Hitler was "brave, daring"  ???

Jaysus  ;D



Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 22, 2021, 03:06:54 PM
Was more for the sake of conversation, I wasn't arguing with you.

They can't have been that stupid if they all rose to power and managed to irreversibly change the course of history.

Stalin especially was seen as a complete outsider once Lenin had the first of his series of strokes....but it was him who out manoeuvred what history told us was the brilliant strategist, Leon Trotsky. 
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: sid waddell on February 22, 2021, 03:48:57 PM
The biggest fools are confident fools, convinced of their own infallibility



Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: johnnycool on February 22, 2021, 04:44:48 PM
The biggest fools are confident fools, convinced of their own infallibility

The god complex.

Trump had a touch of it, along with fuckwittery.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: bennydorano on February 22, 2021, 05:01:40 PM
Hitler was guilty of many things, including foolishness, but to label him a fool is so simplistic it's comical. Seems to me the specific references here would make him guilty of hubris, egotism, failed political gambits, not being a fool. A fool does not manufacture one of the greatest Machiavellian rises to power ever.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: sid waddell on February 22, 2021, 05:42:26 PM
Hitler was guilty of many things, including foolishness, but to label him a fool is so simplistic it's comical. Seems to me the specific references here would make him guilty of hubris, egotism, failed political gambits, not being a fool. A fool does not manufacture one of the greatest Machiavellian rises to power ever.
Invading the Soviet Union was the act of a fool, it wasn't a "failed political gambit" - it wasn't political, it was genocidal, and suicidal

Though to Hitler, doing something suicidal was better than doing nothing at all - like Trump, and Qewanon MacKenna, and that repressed simpleton on this forum, he was obsessed above all with people talking about him, and he wanted people to talk about him forever

Invading Russia wasn't something done on the spur of the moment, surprise at Britain and France declaring war displayed a child-like delusion

He was also lazy as fook and surrounded by yes men

What he was certainly right about was his belief in the power of propaganda, rhetoric, charisma, grievance, notions of revenge and all out violence to bring many millions of people with him

Many millions of deluded fools - the same sort of people who exist everywhere right now - in the US, Britain, Russia, India, Ireland







Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: bennydorano on February 22, 2021, 05:57:07 PM
I've read many a history book, as I'm sure you have, I've yet to see Hitler being labelled a fool - as his defining characteristic. Calling him a fool as a throw away remark is fine, but if it's a hill you're prepared to die on - that it defines him, I'll leave you to it.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: armaghniac on February 22, 2021, 06:20:52 PM
I've read many a history book, as I'm sure you have, I've yet to see Hitler being labelled a fool - as his defining characteristic. Calling him a fool as a throw away remark is fine, but if it's a hill you're prepared to die on - that it defines him, I'll leave you to it.

He had talents in rabble rousing, so was no fool. However, his military strategic talents were less and he was foolish to overestimate them.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: dublin7 on February 22, 2021, 06:44:54 PM
I've read many a history book, as I'm sure you have, I've yet to see Hitler being labelled a fool - as his defining characteristic. Calling him a fool as a throw away remark is fine, but if it's a hill you're prepared to die on - that it defines him, I'll leave you to it.

As a orator Hitler was excellent. He could have a crowd hanging off his every word and willing to follow him anywhere.

As a military strategist he was out of his depth and the failure of his attempted assassination by his own officers was a success for the Allies as he remained as leader
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2021, 07:26:24 PM
Hitler's strengths:

Hitler's weaknesses:

* Not to compare Tony Blair to Hitler or anything, but Blair got a taste of military success with the Balkan campaign and he got his ego boosted when he visited Kosovo and was greeted as a liberator.  This got the idea into his head that military power could be used to solve big problems, so he went off looking for a fight to pick with someone. The fact that GW Bush became US president was an unfortunate coincidence that sealed the fate of a lot of poor Iraqis.

Political leaders can get carried away with a few early successes and try to replicate them again later. Same as Cameron narrowly winning the Scottish IndyRef. He probably got a kick out of that in the same way a bungee jumper gets a thrill out of plunging to the ground without dying. Hence his willingness to take another big constitutional gamble with Brexit, and that came back to bite him in the ass the same way Iraq did for Blair. And Poland did for Hitler.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: sid waddell on February 22, 2021, 10:58:45 PM
I've read many a history book, as I'm sure you have, I've yet to see Hitler being labelled a fool - as his defining characteristic. Calling him a fool as a throw away remark is fine, but if it's a hill you're prepared to die on - that it defines him, I'll leave you to it.
It depends what you class as a fool, doesn't it

He wasn't a fool in terms of winning power or propagandising

In terms of winning a war, he most certainly was, given that Germany could possibly have won the war if they'd played their cards differently - or at minimum made it much, much harder for them to be defeated

Some of the most intelligent people in the world can also be fools

As an example, Sunetra Gupta is obviously highly intellectual (which Hitler wasn't), but is also demonstrably a fool

Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: sid waddell on February 22, 2021, 11:00:56 PM
I've read many a history book, as I'm sure you have, I've yet to see Hitler being labelled a fool - as his defining characteristic. Calling him a fool as a throw away remark is fine, but if it's a hill you're prepared to die on - that it defines him, I'll leave you to it.

He had talents in rabble rousing, so was no fool. However, his military strategic talents were less and he was foolish to overestimate them.
Trump is the most gifted rabble rouser and demagogue since Hitler

But he is also demonstrably a fool
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: seafoid on February 23, 2021, 08:10:23 AM
https://www.ft.com/content/8af4dc4a-39a8-4d07-81f3-af2979dc3f35

"Russiaís rubber-stamp courts have played a starring role in the Kremlinís crackdown on a protest movement led by anti-corruption activist Alexei Navalny, president Vladimir Putinís pre-eminent challenger."

Russia isn't great on the rule of law, really.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 23, 2021, 09:26:20 AM
I've read many a history book, as I'm sure you have, I've yet to see Hitler being labelled a fool - as his defining characteristic. Calling him a fool as a throw away remark is fine, but if it's a hill you're prepared to die on - that it defines him, I'll leave you to it.
It depends what you class as a fool, doesn't it

He wasn't a fool in terms of winning power or propagandising

In terms of winning a war, he most certainly was, given that Germany could possibly have won the war if they'd played their cards differently - or at minimum made it much, much harder for them to be defeated

Some of the most intelligent people in the world can also be fools

As an example, Sunetra Gupta is obviously highly intellectual (which Hitler wasn't), but is also demonstrably a fool

You could make a decent argument they would have won the war totally had a natural event such as the weather not scuppered the invasion of Russia initially - they were 20 miles from Moscow in 1941. Had the got Moscow, was that Russia beaten?

After the first offensive stalled.....the inexhaustible Soviet man power wore them down in the most basic form of attrition possibly ever seen.



Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: LeoMc on February 24, 2021, 05:39:22 PM
I've read many a history book, as I'm sure you have, I've yet to see Hitler being labelled a fool - as his defining characteristic. Calling him a fool as a throw away remark is fine, but if it's a hill you're prepared to die on - that it defines him, I'll leave you to it.
It depends what you class as a fool, doesn't it

He wasn't a fool in terms of winning power or propagandising

In terms of winning a war, he most certainly was, given that Germany could possibly have won the war if they'd played their cards differently - or at minimum made it much, much harder for them to be defeated

Some of the most intelligent people in the world can also be fools

As an example, Sunetra Gupta is obviously highly intellectual (which Hitler wasn't), but is also demonstrably a fool

You could make a decent argument they would have won the war totally had a natural event such as the weather not scuppered the invasion of Russia initially - they were 20 miles from Moscow in 1941. Had the got Moscow, was that Russia beaten?

After the first offensive stalled.....the inexhaustible Soviet man power wore them down in the most basic form of attrition possibly ever seen.

That would be an interesting scenario. Has anyone ever war gamed it? It is a book I would read.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: sid waddell on February 24, 2021, 06:04:50 PM
In my view ultimately the Nazis were always going to lose in Russia because they were trying to control a vast space with a vast population, and they were hated

Long term or even medium term that was not sustainable no matter had they taken Moscow

Holding onto Russia would have drained them of resources to such an extent that they would have been sitting ducks on the western front
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Main Street on February 24, 2021, 06:47:57 PM
I've read many a history book, as I'm sure you have, I've yet to see Hitler being labelled a fool - as his defining characteristic. Calling him a fool as a throw away remark is fine, but if it's a hill you're prepared to die on - that it defines him, I'll leave you to it.
It depends what you class as a fool, doesn't it

He wasn't a fool in terms of winning power or propagandising

In terms of winning a war, he most certainly was, given that Germany could possibly have won the war if they'd played their cards differently - or at minimum made it much, much harder for them to be defeated

Some of the most intelligent people in the world can also be fools

As an example, Sunetra Gupta is obviously highly intellectual (which Hitler wasn't), but is also demonstrably a fool

You could make a decent argument they would have won the war totally had a natural event such as the weather not scuppered the invasion of Russia initially - they were 20 miles from Moscow in 1941. Had the got Moscow, was that Russia beaten?

After the first offensive stalled.....the inexhaustible Soviet man power wore them down in the most basic form of attrition possibly ever seen.

That would be an interesting scenario. Has anyone ever war gamed it? It is a book I would read.

Had Germany actually got into Moscow, what then? The German army had poor supply lines and  stretched beyond sustainability,  would have had to survive the winter being relentlessly harassed by an ever improving Russian army who were being supplied by the USA who could produce and provide war supplies in abundance.

Hitler's war was lost when he started a war without a proper navy for an Atlantic blockade, had inferior air force and when the useless Goering was put in charge of the Luftwaffe.
He was fortunate that a hopelessly disjointed French army/ air force  managed to ignore the info about the  invading German's 100 mile tank jam in the Ardennes. The Luftwaffe were blown out of the sky over the Belgium and  France  where they lost over 1,000 planes, therefore BAF superiority of the skies  allowed for the first Brexit.from Dunkirk. Then the Blitz which came as a surprise to those in the know because it meant Hitler was bankrupt as a tactician.  Goering never got to grips with the Luftwaffe   so much energy spent on daft grandiose projects. The Brits had better fighter planes, had a solid production and always ruled the skies.  By the time Hitler decided to invade Russia he had no moves left, whatever move he made meant certain defeat.

Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on March 02, 2021, 06:34:54 PM
The thinly veiled anti-Russian racism around the Sputnik V vaccine from the EU is pretty wrong in this day and age.



Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2021, 06:43:44 PM
I've read many a history book, as I'm sure you have, I've yet to see Hitler being labelled a fool - as his defining characteristic. Calling him a fool as a throw away remark is fine, but if it's a hill you're prepared to die on - that it defines him, I'll leave you to it.
It depends what you class as a fool, doesn't it

He wasn't a fool in terms of winning power or propagandising

In terms of winning a war, he most certainly was, given that Germany could possibly have won the war if they'd played their cards differently - or at minimum made it much, much harder for them to be defeated

Some of the most intelligent people in the world can also be fools

As an example, Sunetra Gupta is obviously highly intellectual (which Hitler wasn't), but is also demonstrably a fool

You could make a decent argument they would have won the war totally had a natural event such as the weather not scuppered the invasion of Russia initially - they were 20 miles from Moscow in 1941. Had the got Moscow, was that Russia beaten?

After the first offensive stalled.....the inexhaustible Soviet man power wore them down in the most basic form of attrition possibly ever seen.

That would be an interesting scenario. Has anyone ever war gamed it? It is a book I would read.

Had Germany actually got into Moscow, what then? The German army had poor supply lines and  stretched beyond sustainability,  would have had to survive the winter being relentlessly harassed by an ever improving Russian army who were being supplied by the USA who could produce and provide war supplies in abundance.

Hitler's war was lost when he started a war without a proper navy for an Atlantic blockade, had inferior air force and when the useless Goering was put in charge of the Luftwaffe.
He was fortunate that a hopelessly disjointed French army/ air force  managed to ignore the info about the  invading German's 100 mile tank jam in the Ardennes. The Luftwaffe were blown out of the sky over the Belgium and  France  where they lost over 1,000 planes, therefore BAF superiority of the skies  allowed for the first Brexit.from Dunkirk. Then the Blitz which came as a surprise to those in the know because it meant Hitler was bankrupt as a tactician.  Goering never got to grips with the Luftwaffe   so much energy spent on daft grandiose projects. The Brits had better fighter planes, had a solid production and always ruled the skies.  By the time Hitler decided to invade Russia he had no moves left, whatever move he made meant certain defeat.

Well Napoleon took Moscow, but the locals burned the place, and him and his army was sent packing from it. The scorched earth policy made it hard for the French to live off the land. Same thing might have happened with Hitler if he wouldn't have been able to keep his supply lines going.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: J70 on March 02, 2021, 07:06:37 PM
I've read many a history book, as I'm sure you have, I've yet to see Hitler being labelled a fool - as his defining characteristic. Calling him a fool as a throw away remark is fine, but if it's a hill you're prepared to die on - that it defines him, I'll leave you to it.
It depends what you class as a fool, doesn't it

He wasn't a fool in terms of winning power or propagandising

In terms of winning a war, he most certainly was, given that Germany could possibly have won the war if they'd played their cards differently - or at minimum made it much, much harder for them to be defeated

Some of the most intelligent people in the world can also be fools

As an example, Sunetra Gupta is obviously highly intellectual (which Hitler wasn't), but is also demonstrably a fool

You could make a decent argument they would have won the war totally had a natural event such as the weather not scuppered the invasion of Russia initially - they were 20 miles from Moscow in 1941. Had the got Moscow, was that Russia beaten?

After the first offensive stalled.....the inexhaustible Soviet man power wore them down in the most basic form of attrition possibly ever seen.

That would be an interesting scenario. Has anyone ever war gamed it? It is a book I would read.

Had Germany actually got into Moscow, what then? The German army had poor supply lines and  stretched beyond sustainability,  would have had to survive the winter being relentlessly harassed by an ever improving Russian army who were being supplied by the USA who could produce and provide war supplies in abundance.

Hitler's war was lost when he started a war without a proper navy for an Atlantic blockade, had inferior air force and when the useless Goering was put in charge of the Luftwaffe.
He was fortunate that a hopelessly disjointed French army/ air force  managed to ignore the info about the  invading German's 100 mile tank jam in the Ardennes. The Luftwaffe were blown out of the sky over the Belgium and  France  where they lost over 1,000 planes, therefore BAF superiority of the skies  allowed for the first Brexit.from Dunkirk. Then the Blitz which came as a surprise to those in the know because it meant Hitler was bankrupt as a tactician.  Goering never got to grips with the Luftwaffe   so much energy spent on daft grandiose projects. The Brits had better fighter planes, had a solid production and always ruled the skies.  By the time Hitler decided to invade Russia he had no moves left, whatever move he made meant certain defeat.

Well Napoleon took Moscow, but the locals burned the place, and him and his army was sent packing from it. The scorched earth policy made it hard for the French to live off the land. Same thing might have happened with Hitler if he wouldn't have been able to keep his supply lines going.

I'm sure the Russians would have defended Moscow to the death as they later did at Stalingrad which, correct me if I'm wrong, was one of the most brutal, bloodiest battles in history.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: screenexile on March 02, 2021, 07:22:44 PM
The thinly veiled anti-Russian racism around the Sputnik V vaccine from the EU is pretty wrong in this day and age.

Your skepticism around vaccines is valid but the EUís is anti Russian... yeah good one 👍
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on March 02, 2021, 07:26:39 PM
The thinly veiled anti-Russian racism around the Sputnik V vaccine from the EU is pretty wrong in this day and age.

Your skepticism around vaccines is valid but the EUís is anti Russian... yeah good one 👍

Yes.

As the EU have no problem approving the J&J vaccine.

Good to see the Eastern European countries going against the EU and ordering vaccines from Russia though.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: bennydorano on March 02, 2021, 07:34:19 PM
Was reading some pretty hypocritical broadsheet newspaper articles about the Russians & Chinese using the Vaccines as a Soft power move (which of course they are), whereas the US, UK & EU are doing it for purely altruistic reasons.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on March 02, 2021, 07:37:15 PM
Was reading some pretty hypocritical broadsheet newspaper articles about the Russians & Chinese using the Vaccines as a Soft power move (which of course they are), whereas the US, UK & EU are doing it for purely altruistic reasons.

It's the usual western propaganda.

The West - good
Russia and China - bad
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: sid waddell on March 02, 2021, 08:43:47 PM
From August

You can read these Russiabots like a book

I look forward to anti-vaccine nut jobs everywhere performing a spectacular 180 and suddenly becoming cheerleaders for this untested Russian "vaccine" for a disease they simultaneously claim is a "scamdemic".
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: Angelo on March 02, 2021, 09:03:37 PM
From August

You can read these Russiabots like a book

I look forward to anti-vaccine nut jobs everywhere performing a spectacular 180 and suddenly becoming cheerleaders for this untested Russian "vaccine" for a disease they simultaneously claim is a "scamdemic".

The Russiaphobe now falsely claiming the Russian vaccine is untested.]

You're a sad racist.
Title: Re: Russophobia
Post by: whitey on March 03, 2021, 02:22:02 AM
From August

You can read these Russiabots like a book

I look forward to anti-vaccine nut jobs everywhere performing a spectacular 180 and suddenly becoming cheerleaders for this untested Russian "vaccine" for a disease they simultaneously claim is a "scamdemic".

The Russiaphobe now falsely claiming the Russian vaccine is untested.]

You're a sad racist.

What race are Russians?

I thought they were Caucasians?