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GAA Discussion => GAA Discussion => Topic started by: Ash Smoker on November 17, 2020, 10:59:50 AM

Title: Bloody Sunday Documentary on RTE
Post by: Ash Smoker on November 17, 2020, 10:59:50 AM
If you missed this last night I'd highly recommend catching up with on RTE Player.
I was familiar enough with the history of it, but this programme really added to it.
Superb viewing.

https://www.rte.ie/player/movie/bloody-sunday-1920/162915880185
Title: Re: Bloody Sunday Documentary on RTE
Post by: The Hill is Blue on November 17, 2020, 09:04:02 PM
Johnny McDonnell who played in goal for Dublin on Bloody Sunday had the distinction of being Dublin’s longest serving player until this year when his record was surpassed by Stephen Cluxton.

As recalled in the television documentary, Johnny McDonnell was part of Michael Collins’s squad and took part in the action on that Sunday morning  - before heading back to Croker to tog out for the Dubs. There was no Gibson Hotel lunch in those days.
Title: Re: Bloody Sunday Documentary on RTE
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 17, 2020, 10:00:36 PM
I don't know what's wrong with me atm, i used to eat this stuff up,never watched it. Was there anything new in it?
Title: Re: Bloody Sunday Documentary on RTE
Post by: The Hill is Blue on November 17, 2020, 10:27:17 PM
I don't know what's wrong with me atm, i used to eat this stuff up,never watched it. Was there anything new in it?

I eat up this stuff as well. The documentary was well produced and presented, but if you know the details of the Bloody Sunday story you won’t learn anything new. But as I said, I eat this stuff up so I enjoyed this presentation of the story.
Title: Re: Bloody Sunday Documentary on RTE
Post by: armaghniac on November 17, 2020, 10:36:26 PM
I don't know if there was anything new, but it give a sense of the day though. Some things haven't changed that much in a century, the Tipp guy with the Dublin fiancée who went along to the Tipp-Dublin game, only for her to get shot by the British. 
Title: Re: Bloody Sunday Documentary on RTE
Post by: An Watcher on November 17, 2020, 10:48:57 PM
Excellent programme
Title: Re: Bloody Sunday Documentary on RTE
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 17, 2020, 10:52:28 PM
I must give it a go this weekend
Title: Re: Bloody Sunday Documentary on RTE
Post by: naka on November 18, 2020, 07:16:42 AM
Continuing on this note there is an excellent programme on bbc iplayer called “ hawkes and doves “
By Michael portillo on the British government response to the war of independence.
Reality is that the 6 county North was predetermined before the negotiations started.
Portillo quite good at these type of shows.
Title: Re: Bloody Sunday Documentary on RTE
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 18, 2020, 11:56:54 AM
Continuing on this note there is an excellent programme on bbc iplayer called “ hawkes and doves “
By Michael portillo on the British government response to the war of independence.
Reality is that the 6 county North was predetermined before the negotiations started.
Portillo quite good at these type of shows.

I've grown to really enjoy portillo. My memory of him from my younger days don't match my impression of him now. Intelligent man
Title: Re: Bloody Sunday Documentary on RTE
Post by: magpie seanie on November 18, 2020, 12:37:48 PM
Thought it was a very well presented documentary. As someone said it gave you a sense of the day and how it went down. Awful times and a horrific event to have happened in our hallowed ground.
Title: Re: Bloody Sunday Documentary on RTE
Post by: theticklemister on November 18, 2020, 05:00:23 PM
I must give it a go this weekend

I really enjoyed it lad. Especially when the auxies thought it was the men up from Tip who caused that mornings madness
Title: Re: Bloody Sunday Documentary on RTE
Post by: Main Street on November 18, 2020, 09:08:25 PM
It was the first time I heard a detailed account of what actually happened at Croke Park and the aftermath.
Hard to imagine should 6 or 10 of those murdered at Bloody Sunday in Derry were shoved into the one unmarked grave.
Typical Churchillian type imperialism, 'the natives were scum'.
Title: Re: Bloody Sunday Documentary on RTE
Post by: marty34 on November 18, 2020, 10:06:41 PM
Get your pitches lite up on Saturday evening from  7:20 to 8:20 pm.
Title: Re: Bloody Sunday Documentary on RTE
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 19, 2020, 12:52:13 AM
It was the first time I heard a detailed account of what actually happened at Croke Park and the aftermath.
Hard to imagine should 6 or 10 of those murdered at Bloody Sunday in Derry were shoved into the one unmarked grave.
Typical Churchillian type imperialism, 'the natives were scum'.

Seriously though, do you think that generals Wilford or Ford could have given less of a fiddler's fcuk where those victims ended up, either in a limestone communal pit or each a dedicated grave?
Title: Re: Bloody Sunday Documentary on RTE
Post by: Main Street on November 19, 2020, 09:59:45 AM
It was the first time I heard a detailed account of what actually happened at Croke Park and the aftermath.
Hard to imagine should 6 or 10 of those murdered at Bloody Sunday in Derry were shoved into the one unmarked grave.
Typical Churchillian type imperialism, 'the natives were scum'.

Seriously though, do you think that generals Wilford or Ford could have given less of a fiddler's fcuk where those victims ended up, either in a limestone communal pit or each a dedicated grave?
I don’t give a fiddler’s about the generals, I am remarking about how the murdered were treated then. Seriously though,  are you really that dumb?
Title: Re: Bloody Sunday Documentary on RTE
Post by: Tyrdub on November 19, 2020, 10:26:44 AM
Have had the book sitting on a shelf for some time now but never got round to reading it, but I watched the programme, thought it was brilliant. I knew about the 12 Apostles but didnt know much about the actual attack on Croke Park, can picture the scene when they are telling the story ,would have been frightening.
The book is getting started tonight
Title: Re: Bloody Sunday Documentary on RTE
Post by: Rossfan on November 19, 2020, 11:23:16 AM
Decent programme but I  more or less knew a lot of it already.
Hadn't heard the bit about the Tans/Auxies/RIC thinking the Tipp team contained the assassins.
Nice to hear the few personal recollections.
As for the people in the mass grave I presume they were too poor to have their own plots and were buried by the Corpo?
Title: Re: Bloody Sunday Documentary on RTE
Post by: highorlow on November 19, 2020, 08:12:12 PM
The Abbey in conjunction with the GAA are doing a production that will be streamed on youtube etc.

Looks interesting. Better than flogging jerseys....


https://www.abbeytheatre.ie/whats-on/14-voices-from-the-bloodied-field/

Tomorrow evening at 7pm.


Title: Re: Bloody Sunday Documentary on RTE
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 19, 2020, 08:29:58 PM
Continuing on this note there is an excellent programme on bbc iplayer called “ hawkes and doves “
By Michael portillo on the British government response to the war of independence.
Reality is that the 6 county North was predetermined before the negotiations started.
Portillo quite good at these type of shows.

I've grown to really enjoy portillo. My memory of him from my younger days don't match my impression of him now. Intelligent man

Recorded it as i was watching it for a bit then headed to bed, looked good!
Title: Re: Bloody Sunday Documentary on RTE
Post by: The Hill is Blue on November 19, 2020, 08:49:24 PM
It was the first time I heard a detailed account of what actually happened at Croke Park and the aftermath.
Hard to imagine should 6 or 10 of those murdered at Bloody Sunday in Derry were shoved into the one unmarked grave.
Typical Churchillian type imperialism, 'the natives were scum'.

I think there’s a misunderstanding here.

The programme said that eight of the victims were buried in unmarked graves. That would have been because their families could not afford a headstone. Dublin was a very deprived city at the time. The GAA has now been belatedly putting headstones on the graves of the murdered victims.
Title: Re: Bloody Sunday Documentary on RTE
Post by: Last Caress on November 19, 2020, 11:16:59 PM
Have had the book sitting on a shelf for some time now but never got round to reading it, but I watched the programme, thought it was brilliant. I knew about the 12 Apostles but didnt know much about the actual attack on Croke Park, can picture the scene when they are telling the story ,would have been frightening.
The book is getting started tonight
Finished the book recently. Great read.  Micheal Foley tells not only the facts about that day but the storys of the teams and the individual victims.  Micheal is one of the contributors in the programme.
Title: Re: Bloody Sunday Documentary on RTE
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 19, 2020, 11:33:59 PM
It was the first time I heard a detailed account of what actually happened at Croke Park and the aftermath.
Hard to imagine should 6 or 10 of those murdered at Bloody Sunday in Derry were shoved into the one unmarked grave.
Typical Churchillian type imperialism, 'the natives were scum'.

Seriously though, do you think that generals Wilford or Ford could have given less of a fiddler's fcuk where those victims ended up, either in a limestone communal pit or each a dedicated grave?
I don’t give a fiddler’s about the generals, I am remarking about how the murdered were treated then. Seriously though,  are you really that dumb?

Generally not half as dumb as yourself, but to suppose that Imperial overlords from one generation to the next differ to any significant degree beggars belief, where Ireland, north or south, is specifically concerned.
Title: Re: Bloody Sunday Documentary on RTE
Post by: BennyCake on November 20, 2020, 01:52:44 PM
Continuing on this note there is an excellent programme on bbc iplayer called “ hawkes and doves “
By Michael portillo on the British government response to the war of independence.
Reality is that the 6 county North was predetermined before the negotiations started.
Portillo quite good at these type of shows.

Interesting that they discussed the possibility of a 4 county NI which excluded Tyrone and Fermanagh, but they felt a statelet that small was economically unsustainable (Not that it’s economically booming these days).

Would they consider reducing NI even further to hold a Protestant majority if needed? After all, as far as I’m aware, only Down and Antrim have unionist majorities.
Title: Re: Bloody Sunday Documentary on RTE
Post by: tonto1888 on November 20, 2020, 03:55:46 PM
Watched it this morning. Really good. Have the book so will be starting that this evening
Title: Re: Bloody Sunday Documentary on RTE
Post by: From the Bunker on November 20, 2020, 05:16:12 PM
Kevin Myers on the Hard Shoulde - Newstalk there at 4:30pm.

He has huge disdain for everything done by the Republican movement.

Still Interesting to hear his biased research about the day.
Title: Re: Bloody Sunday Documentary on RTE
Post by: The Hill is Blue on November 20, 2020, 06:47:18 PM

Bloody Sunday Dublin GAA Remembers


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8i_8xiiCf2I

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=57sfrlAQyKM
Title: Re: Bloody Sunday Documentary on RTE
Post by: restorepride on November 20, 2020, 11:28:38 PM

Bloody Sunday Dublin GAA Remembers


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8i_8xiiCf2I

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=57sfrlAQyKM

Enjoyed both of those.  Go raibh maith agat.
Title: Re: Bloody Sunday Documentary on RTE
Post by: ardtole on November 21, 2020, 02:09:29 PM
Continuing on this note there is an excellent programme on bbc iplayer called “ hawkes and doves “
By Michael portillo on the British government response to the war of independence.
Reality is that the 6 county North was predetermined before the negotiations started.
Portillo quite good at these type of shows.

Interesting that they discussed the possibility of a 4 county NI which excluded Tyrone and Fermanagh, but they felt a statelet that small was economically unsustainable (Not that it’s economically booming these days).

Would they consider reducing NI even further to hold a Protestant majority if needed? After all, as far as I’m aware, only Down and Antrim have unionist majorities.

Only north down from Comber out to the Ards peninsula would be a unionist majority in down, quite substantially granted.

Carryduff, Saintfield etc would have unionist strongholds at one time but not now. The majority  of the rest of the county would be strongly nationalist.

In Antrim, Belfast has a nationalist majority now, although the rest of Antrim definitely unionist.
Title: Re: Bloody Sunday Documentary on RTE
Post by: The Hill is Blue on November 21, 2020, 02:24:23 PM

Bloody Sunday Dublin GAA Remembers


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8i_8xiiCf2I

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=57sfrlAQyKM



Enjoyed both of those.  Go raibh maith agat.

You’re welcome  ;)
Title: Re: Bloody Sunday Documentary on RTE
Post by: Main Street on November 21, 2020, 06:53:40 PM
BBC propaganda are up their tricks again with an article Bloody Sunday 1920: Croke Park killings remembered 100 years on

 It almost reads like a chapter from the whitewash and this a 100 year old event.

'Earlier that Sunday morning, the IRA killed 14 people and wounded others in a series of co-ordinated attacks across Dublin, with the aim of assassinating British intelligence agents or spies.
The British authorities suspected some of the gunmen had disappeared into the crowd at Croke Park, so armed police were deployed to block all the exits and search thousands of spectators.
But, within minutes, panic ensued as police began shooting indiscriminately into the crowd.'


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54908852 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54908852)

How about
Earlier that Sunday morning, the IRA killed 13 military personnel (7 British Army Intelligence Officers,  3 BA officers,  1 RIC sergeant,  2 Auxies.1 civilian).
Title: Re: Bloody Sunday Documentary on RTE
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 21, 2020, 08:09:38 PM
Continuing on this note there is an excellent programme on bbc iplayer called “ hawkes and doves “
By Michael portillo on the British government response to the war of independence.
Reality is that the 6 county North was predetermined before the negotiations started.
Portillo quite good at these type of shows.

Interesting that they discussed the possibility of a 4 county NI which excluded Tyrone and Fermanagh, but they felt a statelet that small was economically unsustainable (Not that it’s economically booming these days).

Would they consider reducing NI even further to hold a Protestant majority if needed? After all, as far as I’m aware, only Down and Antrim have unionist majorities.

One of their biggest mistakes was leaving west bank of Derry city (which is Inishowen effectively) in the North. Caused them untold trouble. They done it because of historical significance of walls and seige
Title: Re: Bloody Sunday Documentary on RTE
Post by: armaghniac on November 23, 2020, 03:13:34 PM
Continuing on this note there is an excellent programme on bbc iplayer called “ hawkes and doves “
By Michael portillo on the British government response to the war of independence.
Reality is that the 6 county North was predetermined before the negotiations started.
Portillo quite good at these type of shows.

Interesting that they discussed the possibility of a 4 county NI which excluded Tyrone and Fermanagh, but they felt a statelet that small was economically unsustainable (Not that it’s economically booming these days).

Would they consider reducing NI even further to hold a Protestant majority if needed? After all, as far as I’m aware, only Down and Antrim have unionist majorities.

One of their biggest mistakes was leaving west bank of Derry city (which is Inishowen effectively) in the North. Caused them untold trouble. They done it because of historical significance of walls and seige

I see this map today in Slugger for Freestate proposals for the border, this would have rid the 6 counties of Derry and south Armagh and would have saved a lot of trouble.


Title: Re: Bloody Sunday Documentary on RTE
Post by: Main Street on November 23, 2020, 08:25:12 PM
Monaghan would have become  the super power in Ulster GAA after liberating and taken into protection  all the Cs,  the bandit towns of  Crossmaglen, Cregan, Culloville and Cullyhanna.
Title: Re: Bloody Sunday Documentary on RTE
Post by: armaghniac on November 23, 2020, 08:29:31 PM
Monaghan would have become  the super power in Ulster GAA after liberating and taken into protection  all the Cs,  the bandit towns of  Crossmaglen, Cregan, Culloville and Cullyhanna.

Well their postal address was Monaghan before the sectarian Post Office administration made us Down.
And you might welcome Camlough as well.
Title: Re: Bloody Sunday Documentary on RTE
Post by: Main Street on November 23, 2020, 08:35:28 PM
I think Camlough was outside of Monaghan's reach, possibly it would have sunk into the mire of Louth.
Title: Re: Bloody Sunday Documentary on RTE
Post by: BennyCake on November 23, 2020, 09:53:29 PM
If Armagh was split with the border, surely the whole county would still be just ‘Armagh’? Or would it become Northern Armagh and The Armagh Free State?
Title: Re: Bloody Sunday Documentary on RTE
Post by: Main Street on November 23, 2020, 10:15:15 PM
If Armagh was split with the border, surely the whole county would still be just ‘Armagh’? Or would it become Northern Armagh and The Armagh Free State?
One Armagh is enough.
Title: Re: Bloody Sunday Documentary on RTE
Post by: The Hill is Blue on November 24, 2020, 12:18:14 PM
In the last few days I learned of an interesting connection between the Maamtrasna murders and the Bloody Sunday massacre.

In 1882 in Maamtrasna on the Galway and Mayo border five members of the Joyce family were murdered in their beds. One of the young sons, Martin, survived because he was out of the house on the night of the murders. Some years later Martin was married and settled in Dublin where he had a large family. Two of his sons Joe and Christy played football with Parnells (Stephen Cluxton's club). On Bloody Sunday both Joe and Christy were on the Dublin team which was caught up in the massacre.

And of course the great Johnny Joyce who scored six goals for the Dubs in a Leinster championship game against Longford in 1960 was a grandson of Martin Joyce.
Title: Re: Bloody Sunday Documentary on RTE
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on November 24, 2020, 02:14:03 PM
If Armagh was split with the border, surely the whole county would still be just ‘Armagh’? Or would it become Northern Armagh and The Armagh Free State?
One Armagh is enough.

FRSA....Free Republic of South Armagh with Cross as the capital. Would would stand alone and make our money as a sovereign smuggling state akin to Andorra!
Title: Re: Bloody Sunday Documentary on RTE
Post by: BennyCake on November 24, 2020, 03:45:54 PM
Continuing on this note there is an excellent programme on bbc iplayer called “ hawkes and doves “
By Michael portillo on the British government response to the war of independence.
Reality is that the 6 county North was predetermined before the negotiations started.
Portillo quite good at these type of shows.

Interesting that they discussed the possibility of a 4 county NI which excluded Tyrone and Fermanagh, but they felt a statelet that small was economically unsustainable (Not that it’s economically booming these days).

Would they consider reducing NI even further to hold a Protestant majority if needed? After all, as far as I’m aware, only Down and Antrim have unionist majorities.

One of their biggest mistakes was leaving west bank of Derry city (which is Inishowen effectively) in the North. Caused them untold trouble. They done it because of historical significance of walls and seige

I see this map today in Slugger for Freestate proposals for the border, this would have rid the 6 counties of Derry and south Armagh and would have saved a lot of trouble.




I’m assuming they took Derry so they could use the city’s docks for access to the North Atlantic.

But why did they go with Tyrone then? Was it because they knew there was gold in them thar hills? And Fermanagh, sure what could they possibly want with it?

If the Brits left out Tyrone, surely it would have been easier for them to manage the border along the Blackwater and Lough Neagh?
Title: Re: Bloody Sunday Documentary on RTE
Post by: Main Street on November 24, 2020, 06:52:42 PM
Continuing on this note there is an excellent programme on bbc iplayer called “ hawkes and doves “
By Michael portillo on the British government response to the war of independence.
Reality is that the 6 county North was predetermined before the negotiations started.
Portillo quite good at these type of shows.

Interesting that they discussed the possibility of a 4 county NI which excluded Tyrone and Fermanagh, but they felt a statelet that small was economically unsustainable (Not that it’s economically booming these days).

Would they consider reducing NI even further to hold a Protestant majority if needed? After all, as far as I’m aware, only Down and Antrim have unionist majorities.

One of their biggest mistakes was leaving west bank of Derry city (which is Inishowen effectively) in the North. Caused them untold trouble. They done it because of historical significance of walls and seige

I see this map today in Slugger for Freestate proposals for the border, this would have rid the 6 counties of Derry and south Armagh and would have saved a lot of trouble.




I’m assuming they took Derry so they could use the city’s docks for access to the North Atlantic.

But why did they go with Tyrone then? Was it because they knew there was gold in them thar hills? And Fermanagh, sure what could they possibly want with it?

If the Brits left out Tyrone, surely it would have been easier for them to manage the border along the Blackwater and Lough Neagh?
Nobody wanted Tyrone, so I suppose it just stayed there.
Title: Re: Bloody Sunday Documentary on RTE
Post by: GaillimhIarthair on November 24, 2020, 09:52:28 PM
In the last few days I learned of an interesting connection between the Maamtrasna murders and the Bloody Sunday massacre.

In 1882 in Maamtrasna on the Galway and Mayo border five members of the Joyce family were murdered in their beds. One of the young sons, Martin, survived because he was out of the house on the night of the murders. Some years later Martin was married and settled in Dublin where he had a large family. Two of his sons Joe and Christy played football with Parnells (Stephen Cluxton's club). On Bloody Sunday both Joe and Christy were on the Dublin team which was caught up in the massacre.

And of course the great Johnny Joyce who scored six goals for the Dubs in a Leinster championship game against Longford in 1960 was a grandson of Martin Joyce.
Wow, I thought I knew that Maamtrasna story well but never heard of that Bloody Sunday & Gaa link previously - thanks for posting that info. 
Title: Re: Bloody Sunday Documentary on RTE
Post by: The Hill is Blue on November 25, 2020, 03:28:29 PM
In the last few days I learned of an interesting connection between the Maamtrasna murders and the Bloody Sunday massacre.

In 1882 in Maamtrasna on the Galway and Mayo border five members of the Joyce family were murdered in their beds. One of the young sons, Martin, survived because he was out of the house on the night of the murders. Some years later Martin was married and settled in Dublin where he had a large family. Two of his sons Joe and Christy played football with Parnells (Stephen Cluxton's club). On Bloody Sunday both Joe and Christy were on the Dublin team which was caught up in the massacre.

And of course the great Johnny Joyce who scored six goals for the Dubs in a Leinster championship game against Longford in 1960 was a grandson of Martin Joyce.
Wow, I thought I knew that Maamtrasna story well but never heard of that Bloody Sunday & Gaa link previously - thanks for posting that info.

Yes it's a fascinating connection.

I knew that Johnny Joyce was a grandson of Martin Joyce who survived the Maamtrasna massacre, but I didn't know that two of Martin's sons were on the field on Bloody Sunday. At the moment, by coincidence, I'm reading The Maamtrasna Murders by Margaret Kelleher and she mentions the Bloody Sunday connection in her book.

I live close to Kilbarrack Cemetery in Fingal where Martin Joyce is buried (a long way from Maamtrasna).



       
Title: Re: Bloody Sunday Documentary on RTE
Post by: GaillimhIarthair on November 25, 2020, 04:28:36 PM
In the last few days I learned of an interesting connection between the Maamtrasna murders and the Bloody Sunday massacre.

In 1882 in Maamtrasna on the Galway and Mayo border five members of the Joyce family were murdered in their beds. One of the young sons, Martin, survived because he was out of the house on the night of the murders. Some years later Martin was married and settled in Dublin where he had a large family. Two of his sons Joe and Christy played football with Parnells (Stephen Cluxton's club). On Bloody Sunday both Joe and Christy were on the Dublin team which was caught up in the massacre.

And of course the great Johnny Joyce who scored six goals for the Dubs in a Leinster championship game against Longford in 1960 was a grandson of Martin Joyce.
Wow, I thought I knew that Maamtrasna story well but never heard of that Bloody Sunday & Gaa link previously - thanks for posting that info.

Yes it's a fascinating connection.

I knew that Johnny Joyce was a grandson of Martin Joyce who survived the Maamtrasna massacre, but I didn't know that two of Martin's sons were on the field on Bloody Sunday. At the moment, by coincidence, I'm reading The Maamtrasna Murders by Margaret Kelleher and she mentions the Bloody Sunday connection in her book.

I live close to Kilbarrack Cemetery in Fingal where Martin Joyce is buried (a long way from Maamtrasna).



       
Well, I'm a long way from Kilbarrack Cemetery but grew up not too far from Maamtrasna!!

A tragic story with an amazing connection to Bloody Sunday all the same.