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GAA Discussion => GAA Discussion => Topic started by: APM on November 02, 2020, 09:38:32 AM

Title: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: APM on November 02, 2020, 09:38:32 AM
Maybe it was nostalgia, but despite the surrealness of watching an Ulster championship in front of an empty stadium in early November, it struck me that the do or die nature of championship football is what we have been missing this few years. 

The qualifiers were great for the first few years, until the realisation that what all it has done has made the rich richer by giving them a second bite of the cherry if they get a tough draw or knocked out in a shock result.  When the qualifiers started, it gave the minnows the chance to go on a run and build momentum through the backdoor.  It was great to see Sligo, Wexford, Fermanagh and Longford do this in the early days.  However, the greatest long term beneficiaries have been the stronger counties in my view.

Time to scrap the backdoor and the shite that is the Super 8s.  Go back to knock out football when it is all on the day and teams can dare to dream a bit more; rather than "if we catch Dublin cold, they will still probably win the All Ireland through the backdoor".

If more games are needed, play them in the league where teams are evenly matched, by playing three divisions of 10 or 11 teams or play home and away in the league.

Thoughts!
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: Aristo 60 on November 02, 2020, 09:47:32 AM
I agree with all of the above!
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: Rossfan on November 02, 2020, 09:50:10 AM
I'd say there's great excitement about the  Championship in Monaghan and Tyrone today.
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: Shamrock Shore on November 02, 2020, 09:50:46 AM
Yes - I can see it having its merits and I was a big fan of the Qualifiers. I do think they have passed their sell by date at this stage.
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: five points on November 02, 2020, 09:57:10 AM
The only argument against a return to a full knockout championship is the problem of counties knowing their championship is pretty much already over as soon as the draw is made, if they draw one of the big guns.  A number of Cavan players hung up their boots in 2000 when we drew Derry in the first round, a few months after they had hammered us in the previous championship.
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: APM on November 02, 2020, 10:17:26 AM
I'd say there's great excitement about the  Championship in Monaghan and Tyrone today.

It's arguably better than getting beaten and having to play another game four weeks later, by which time, 2 or 3 players have defected to the states and there is no enthusiasm for a delayed execution with games played in front of paltry crowds and some teams taking hammerings and others limping on through a couple of rounds, perhaps making it through to the Super 8s where their fate will be sealed.  Where is the excitement in that?

For the Monaghans and Tyrones, yes, they might well get a backdoor run to the Super 8s.  But there is also a beauty in having these teams out at this stage as it opens things up.

At least when you are out, you can focus on the club scene.  A few more games in the league will more than compensate, because that is really where counties will make long term progression.

 
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: BennyCake on November 02, 2020, 10:18:39 AM
Knockout will never return. Too much money involved.
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: ballinaman on November 02, 2020, 10:21:54 AM
Knockout will never return. Too much money involved.
Correct.✅
Lock the thread.
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: APM on November 02, 2020, 10:38:26 AM
How much money is involved really?

Crowds at the qualifiers and Super 8s have been falling. The atmosphere has been dying and my instinct is that we are in a viscous circle, with boring football, falling crowds, poor atmosphere.  Something has to change because for the last 10 years, the GAA has been killing the goose that laid the golden egg.  Things have to change and it is the knockout nature of the competition that gave the championship its character.  Meanwhile, an extended league would add to the coffers. 

Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: Eire90 on November 02, 2020, 10:45:10 AM
True agree with everything if there was a backdoor tyrone v donegal would not have meant as much and probably less hype about it.
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: Eire90 on November 02, 2020, 10:47:07 AM
I'd say there's great excitement about the  Championship in Monaghan and Tyrone today.

It's arguably better than getting beaten and having to play another game four weeks later, by which time, 2 or 3 players have defected to the states and there is no enthusiasm for a delayed execution with games played in front of paltry crowds and some teams taking hammerings and others limping on through a couple of rounds, perhaps making it through to the Super 8s where their fate will be sealed.  Where is the excitement in that?

For the Monaghans and Tyrones, yes, they might well get a backdoor run to the Super 8s.  But there is also a beauty in having these teams out at this stage as it opens things up.

At least when you are out, you can focus on the club scene.  A few more games in the league will more than compensate, because that is really where counties will make long term progression.


If tyrone and monaghan people feel that way then there are not true gaa fans and only care about their own county very selfish
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: Eire90 on November 02, 2020, 10:47:35 AM
If super 8s return its a disgrace.
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: Eire90 on November 02, 2020, 10:49:10 AM
The Supers 8s stink of GAA capitalism
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: Hound on November 02, 2020, 11:19:17 AM
Maybe it was nostalgia, but despite the surrealness of watching an Ulster championship in front of an empty stadium in early November, it struck me that the do or die nature of championship football is what we have been missing this few years. 

The qualifiers were great for the first few years, until the realisation that what all it has done has made the rich richer by giving them a second bite of the cherry if they get a tough draw or knocked out in a shock result.  When the qualifiers started, it gave the minnows the chance to go on a run and build momentum through the backdoor.  It was great to see Sligo, Wexford, Fermanagh and Longford do this in the early days.  However, the greatest long term beneficiaries have been the stronger counties in my view.

Time to scrap the backdoor and the shite that is the Super 8s.  Go back to knock out football when it is all on the day and teams can dare to dream a bit more; rather than "if we catch Dublin cold, they will still probably win the All Ireland through the backdoor".

If more games are needed, play them in the league where teams are evenly matched, by playing three divisions of 10 or 11 teams or play home and away in the league.

Thoughts!
You say we can play more league games, and I love the league, but league just isn't as important as championship.

If this was a normal year and Donegal beat Tyrone in the first week of June, you think it would be fair that that's them gone for the whole summer?

Interesting that you use Dublin in your example "they will still probably win the All Ireland through the backdoor", given the Dubs have never got to an All Ireland final through the backdoor. Dublin were probably the biggest losers from the introduction of the backdoor initially as having the record of the most times a provincial champion was knocked out by a team who came through the backdoor. Rossies and Monaghan in recent years have possibly taken on that unwanted record.
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: APM on November 02, 2020, 11:33:46 AM
Maybe it was nostalgia, but despite the surrealness of watching an Ulster championship in front of an empty stadium in early November, it struck me that the do or die nature of championship football is what we have been missing this few years. 

The qualifiers were great for the first few years, until the realisation that what all it has done has made the rich richer by giving them a second bite of the cherry if they get a tough draw or knocked out in a shock result.  When the qualifiers started, it gave the minnows the chance to go on a run and build momentum through the backdoor.  It was great to see Sligo, Wexford, Fermanagh and Longford do this in the early days.  However, the greatest long term beneficiaries have been the stronger counties in my view.

Time to scrap the backdoor and the shite that is the Super 8s.  Go back to knock out football when it is all on the day and teams can dare to dream a bit more; rather than "if we catch Dublin cold, they will still probably win the All Ireland through the backdoor".

If more games are needed, play them in the league where teams are evenly matched, by playing three divisions of 10 or 11 teams or play home and away in the league.

Thoughts!
You say we can play more league games, and I love the league, but league just isn't as important as championship.

If this was a normal year and Donegal beat Tyrone in the first week of June, you think it would be fair that that's them gone for the whole summer?

Interesting that you use Dublin in your example "they will still probably win the All Ireland through the backdoor", given the Dubs have never got to an All Ireland final through the backdoor. Dublin were probably the biggest losers from the introduction of the backdoor initially as having the record of the most times a provincial champion was knocked out by a team who came through the backdoor. Rossies and Monaghan in recent years have possibly taken on that unwanted record.

Armagh likewise  - Lost QFs as Ulster Champions in 2004, 2006 and 2008.  No reason for picking on Dublin, only that they are the strongest team in the country this last 5 years and I am conscious that they haven't lost a game in Leinster during that time.   
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: Cunny Funt on November 02, 2020, 12:54:29 PM
Maybe it was nostalgia, but despite the surrealness of watching an Ulster championship in front of an empty stadium in early November, it struck me that the do or die nature of championship football is what we have been missing this few years. 

The qualifiers were great for the first few years, until the realisation that what all it has done has made the rich richer by giving them a second bite of the cherry if they get a tough draw or knocked out in a shock result.  When the qualifiers started, it gave the minnows the chance to go on a run and build momentum through the backdoor.  It was great to see Sligo, Wexford, Fermanagh and Longford do this in the early days.  However, the greatest long term beneficiaries have been the stronger counties in my view.

Time to scrap the backdoor and the shite that is the Super 8s.  Go back to knock out football when it is all on the day and teams can dare to dream a bit more; rather than "if we catch Dublin cold, they will still probably win the All Ireland through the backdoor".

If more games are needed, play them in the league where teams are evenly matched, by playing three divisions of 10 or 11 teams or play home and away in the league.

Thoughts!

Backdoor needs adjusting. Other than HQ looking for more gate receipt money a group format for the last 8 of the championship made no sense hopefully that is scrapped sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: larryin89 on November 02, 2020, 01:00:12 PM
Knockout will never return. Too much money involved.
Correct.✅
Lock the thread.

Incorrect. For the foreseeable there won’t be any crowds which definitely includes next year at this stage . You’d worry the county game might even stop completely for a couple of years as you’d have to wonder how long is it sustainable with little to no crowds .
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: Lazer on November 02, 2020, 01:12:22 PM
The knockout adds so much excitement.

Keep it!

In almost every other sport there is a league and a knock out competition.

The knockout has the ability to give shock results and have really intensive games. The league gives teams a chance to play more games.

Some of the games this weekend have been brilliant to watch.
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: An Watcher on November 02, 2020, 01:19:37 PM
Agree with this if they abandon the provincial championships. The days of Dublin n Kerry sauntering through their provincial championships have to come to an end
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: dublin7 on November 02, 2020, 01:39:45 PM
Agree with this if they abandon the provincial championships. The days of Dublin n Kerry sauntering through their provincial championships have to come to an end

+1

You can't keep the provincial championships and have the championship on a knock out basis. No incentive for players from Munster/Leinster outside of Kerry, Cork & Dublin to sacrifice 6 months training just to get hammered and knocked out after maybe one game
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: Angelo on November 02, 2020, 01:42:17 PM
Knockout won't be there is the provincial system as it's too imbalanced.

Donegal and Tyrone facing off what is in effect a R32 game while Galway just have to beat a Div 4 team to play a de facto AI QF.

The Championship this year, to have any credibility needed to be open draw.

Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: Armagh18 on November 02, 2020, 01:56:01 PM
Agree with this if they abandon the provincial championships. The days of Dublin n Kerry sauntering through their provincial championships have to come to an end

+1

You can't keep the provincial championships and have the championship on a knock out basis. No incentive for players from Munster/Leinster outside of Kerry, Cork & Dublin to sacrifice 6 months training just to get hammered and knocked out after maybe one game
I see what you’re saying but look at the 3 games in Ulster over the weekend. Absolutely  unreal and went down to the wire. Maybe throw Dublin and Kerry into their own competition out of the road.
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: BennyCake on November 02, 2020, 02:06:53 PM
Donegal Tyrone was great value. Either could have won, and you knew it was do or die. None of this “ach sure we can regroup through the back door” bollocks.

The championship needs to be a 32 county open draw, where you have potentially Kerry having to go to Ballybofey, or Dublin to Castlebar. One bad performance, a fluke goal, and you’re out. Bye bye.

Yes, the cream will usually rise to the top, but you are going to get shocks, big guns exiting early, but that’s what it’s all about. Kerry Dublin Mayo getting to AI finals year after year is boring as shit.

Throwing teams in a Tier 2 championship will do feck all for anyone. A good run for a Longford, Carlow, Sligo etc will do more for participation in those counties than any amount of coaching or funding or a dozen Tier 2 titles.
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: Rossfan on November 02, 2020, 02:52:16 PM
Agree with this if they abandon the provincial championships. The days of Dublin n Kerry sauntering through their provincial championships have to come to an end

+1

You can't keep the provincial championships and have the championship on a knock out basis. No incentive for players from Munster/Leinster outside of Kerry, Cork & Dublin to sacrifice 6 months training just to get hammered and knocked out after maybe one game
+1 it is it +2.
Basing who can play in a National Championship solely on 4 unequal in size and standards is madness.
Anyway aren't there a number of SFC proposals by the Fixtyres Review Committee to go to County Boards for consideration.
It will be 2022 at the earliest before we'll have a full season again.
Next year will see truncated League and Championship again as there is unlikely to be any County activity before 1st March.
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: themac_23 on November 02, 2020, 02:59:08 PM
Do away with the pre season tournaments, play the provincial championships before the leagues. do away with league semi/ finals and play first round of a 32 team knock out the week after the leagues finish, means teams will still be fit and flying and only asking players who got a bad draw to give it possibly 1 more week before heading back to their clubs or heading off for america for the summer.
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: Orior on November 02, 2020, 03:00:39 PM
Donegal Tyrone was great value. Either could have won, and you knew it was do or die. None of this “ach sure we can regroup through the back door” bollocks.

The championship needs to be a 32 county open draw, where you have potentially Kerry having to go to Ballybofey, or Dublin to Castlebar. One bad performance, a fluke goal, and you’re out. Bye bye.

Yes, the cream will usually rise to the top, but you are going to get shocks, big guns exiting early, but that’s what it’s all about. Kerry Dublin Mayo getting to AI finals year after year is boring as shit.

Throwing teams in a Tier 2 championship will do feck all for anyone. A good run for a Longford, Carlow, Sligo etc will do more for participation in those counties than any amount of coaching or funding or a dozen Tier 2 titles.

Agree that it needs to be all 32 and an open draw. You might also need a preliminary round for New York, London and Warwickshire. And punish Kilkenny if they don't field a team.
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: Eire90 on November 02, 2020, 03:10:57 PM
Would a small county rather get to play in a all Ireland quarter final which is possible with a favorable draw in an open all ireland or win a 2nd tier championship.
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: APM on November 02, 2020, 03:18:14 PM
Donegal Tyrone was great value. Either could have won, and you knew it was do or die. None of this “ach sure we can regroup through the back door” bollocks.

The championship needs to be a 32 county open draw, where you have potentially Kerry having to go to Ballybofey, or Dublin to Castlebar. One bad performance, a fluke goal, and you’re out. Bye bye.

Yes, the cream will usually rise to the top, but you are going to get shocks, big guns exiting early, but that’s what it’s all about. Kerry Dublin Mayo getting to AI finals year after year is boring as shit.

Throwing teams in a Tier 2 championship will do feck all for anyone. A good run for a Longford, Carlow, Sligo etc will do more for participation in those counties than any amount of coaching or funding or a dozen Tier 2 titles.

Agree that it needs to be all 32 and an open draw. You might also need a preliminary round for New York, London and Warwickshire. And punish Kilkenny if they don't field a team.

If you got a 32 county open draw there would be buyer's remorse.  No different to the super 8s anti-climax, predictable and all as it was.

Yes, you might get Donegal and Kerry in the first round and you might get a big crowd and a great atmosphere on the May Bank Holiday.  On the other hand you might get Meath and Limerick in the Gaelic Grounds and no-one there.  Can you tell me that this is a better alternative to Meath and Westmeath or Louth. 

Division 1 Tyrone might have to go down to Division 3 Tipperary and will beat them handy in front of an empty stadium. But Div 1 Tyrone v Div 3 Derry / Fermanagh - that's a different beast entirely. 
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: Taylor on November 02, 2020, 03:24:06 PM
Lads - it will never happen unfortunately.

The GAA have a cash cow (when crowds are allowed in) with the qualifiers and Super 8's.

Straight KO wont replace that so it wont even be on the table for discussions
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: Rossfan on November 02, 2020, 03:30:36 PM
"Straight KO" so beloved by 6 Co folk (who ironically suffer the most from it) is definitely NOT on any official table.
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: Angelo on November 02, 2020, 03:33:19 PM
Would a small county rather get to play in a all Ireland quarter final which is possible with a favorable draw in an open all ireland or win a 2nd tier championship.

Throw the losers of the R32 into a B Championship.

Should the draw be seeded? Div 1 and 2 teams in pot one and Div 3 and 4 teams in pot 2. Div 3 and 4 teams with home advantage in R1.
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: An Watcher on November 02, 2020, 03:33:52 PM
Would tyrone playing away against carlow/Longford or whoever not draw a big crowd? The novelty of it, home fans hoping for a shock, away fans looking forward to something different. Everyone's a winner?
Similarly, if antrim were to draw Waterford and then say sligo, these would be huge games with an all Ireland quarter final at croker up for grabs.
New teams getting a chance, kerry or Dublin possibly exiting in the first round. All good
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: magpie seanie on November 03, 2020, 10:32:36 AM
I just think there's too much time in the calendar allocated to too few players. That's the major issue. We can argue about straight knockout, super 8's, qualifers etc but there needs to be a set time in which intercounty takes place. Competition structures can evolve/ be developed to fit. Must say straight knockout is some buzz because it's not so rare.
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: Lar Naparka on November 03, 2020, 03:20:59 PM
[quote author=An Watcher link=topic=29756.msg2004405#msg2004405 date=160433123
Would tyrone playing away against carlow/Longford or whoever not draw a big crowd? The novelty of it, home fans hoping for a shock, away fans looking forward to something different. Everyone's a winner?
Similarly, if antrim were to draw Waterford and then say sligo, these would be huge gameswith an all Ireland quarter final at croker up for grabs.
New teams getting a chance, kerry or Dublin possibly exiting in the first round. All good
[/quote]
Can't see this happening as the drop in finance would be too great. The Gah would lose too much money.
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: Eire90 on November 04, 2020, 01:42:17 PM
so Galway are into a effectively all ireland quarter final without playing a game
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: imtommygunn on November 04, 2020, 02:18:48 PM
I just think there's too much time in the calendar allocated to too few players. That's the major issue. We can argue about straight knockout, super 8's, qualifers etc but there needs to be a set time in which intercounty takes place. Competition structures can evolve/ be developed to fit. Must say straight knockout is some buzz because it's not so rare.

I would agree with all of that. The hurling just doesn't feel quite the same because it's not straight knockout(yet). Let's be honest we have a lot of messing each year leading to the main events which are from quarters onwards. Qualifiers occasionally brought up good early games but not that often - or not often enough anyway. Having fixed windows for club and county has really worked.
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: BennyCake on November 04, 2020, 04:54:22 PM
Donegal Tyrone was great value. Either could have won, and you knew it was do or die. None of this “ach sure we can regroup through the back door” bollocks.

The championship needs to be a 32 county open draw, where you have potentially Kerry having to go to Ballybofey, or Dublin to Castlebar. One bad performance, a fluke goal, and you’re out. Bye bye.

Yes, the cream will usually rise to the top, but you are going to get shocks, big guns exiting early, but that’s what it’s all about. Kerry Dublin Mayo getting to AI finals year after year is boring as shit.

Throwing teams in a Tier 2 championship will do feck all for anyone. A good run for a Longford, Carlow, Sligo etc will do more for participation in those counties than any amount of coaching or funding or a dozen Tier 2 titles.

Agree that it needs to be all 32 and an open draw. You might also need a preliminary round for New York, London and Warwickshire. And punish Kilkenny if they don't field a team.

If you got a 32 county open draw there would be buyer's remorse.  No different to the super 8s anti-climax, predictable and all as it was.

Yes, you might get Donegal and Kerry in the first round and you might get a big crowd and a great atmosphere on the May Bank Holiday.  On the other hand you might get Meath and Limerick in the Gaelic Grounds and no-one there.  Can you tell me that this is a better alternative to Meath and Westmeath or Louth. 

Division 1 Tyrone might have to go down to Division 3 Tipperary and will beat them handy in front of an empty stadium. But Div 1 Tyrone v Div 3 Derry / Fermanagh - that's a different beast entirely.

Yes, and you could also get Limerick Meath in a Tier 2 championship, and even less people there.

There’d be more spectators at a Meath Limerick where the winner makes progress in the AI championship, and the potential getting to an AI QF/semi.
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: Rossfan on November 04, 2020, 04:59:53 PM
Meanwhile in the non Bennycake world

https://www.gaa.ie/news/fixtures-task-force-recommends-split-season-model-for-gaa-calendar/
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: Eire90 on November 04, 2020, 09:10:13 PM
why do gaa have to come up with  complicated formats id rather go back to old back door system with 4 provincial winners getting home advantage than those formats their proposing 32 team open draw would be my preferred  option but that will never happen so the next best to that is old back door system no super 8 just 4 knockout quarter finals.
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: Ball Hopper on November 04, 2020, 09:57:45 PM
How about seeding the draws in each province based on league standings?

Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: Rossfan on November 04, 2020, 11:33:43 PM
Putting the 2 worst teams in Leinster into the "Munster" Championship will put manners on Kerry.
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: Captain Obvious on November 05, 2020, 12:00:26 AM
Meanwhile in the non Bennycake world

https://www.gaa.ie/news/fixtures-task-force-recommends-split-season-model-for-gaa-calendar/

If common sense was used the U21 championship would be reintroduced than going with a U19 championship.
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: Angelo on November 05, 2020, 11:49:11 AM
Meanwhile in the non Bennycake world

https://www.gaa.ie/news/fixtures-task-force-recommends-split-season-model-for-gaa-calendar/

If common sense was used the U21 championship would be reintroduced than going with a U19 championship.

U21 was never needed more than now in GAA.

You look back 15-20 years ago and the amount of young lads of 17-18 that would be thrown in for Championship debuts was commonplace. Everyone could look across their own county and list off countless examples. How often does that happen now?

It's exteremely rare now and U21 was a vital pathway for players to get ready for senior level. Instead you have lads coming out of U20 now who are most likely a year or two short of the required physical development needed for senior level. U21 is needed to bridge that gap.
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: Laois Rising on November 05, 2020, 02:48:42 PM
Angelo I concur 100 percent with you. A straight knock out u21 championship should be reintroduced. The u20 championship in its current guise doesn't have the same sparkle or appeal either-especially when counties top players cannot play if they are still involved with the counties senior championship team.
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: omagh_gael on November 05, 2020, 06:50:10 PM
I don't know about other counties but u10s a joke in Tyrone and Monaghan (so I've heard from family). I know my own cousin in Moaghan has finished up with 17s (he has a bad birthday) and only has adult junior b which is no place for a 17 year old.

This grade needs a serious rethink across club and county. Can just imagine the amount of lads drifting away between 17 and 19 years of age.
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: APM on November 09, 2020, 01:22:54 PM
Kerry's defeat yesterday in Munster really opens up one side of the draw at least and it shows the cruel beauty of knock-out football. Just think if there had been a backdoor, this morning everyone would still have been tipping Kerry to make it to an AIF.   OK, it might not make for a competitive AIF in the Dubs get through, but I think it reinforces a lot of the points that were previously made on this thread.
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: armaghniac on November 09, 2020, 01:39:18 PM
Kerry's defeat yesterday in Munster really opens up one side of the draw at least and it shows the cruel beauty of knock-out football. Just think if there had been a backdoor, this morning everyone would still have been tipping Kerry to make it to an AIF.   OK, it might not make for a competitive AIF in the Dubs get through, but I think it reinforces a lot of the points that were previously made on this thread.

Cork are always something of a threat to Kerry. Back in the day when Meath or even Kildare were a real threat to Dublin then knockout could be interesting, but now shocks in Munster, Ulster or Connacht merely make it even easier for Dublin.
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: Eire90 on November 09, 2020, 01:46:05 PM
if a team like cork gets to all ireland final and gets hammered by dublin its still a good tournament the championship is not just abut final.
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: Hound on November 09, 2020, 02:00:08 PM
Kerry's defeat yesterday in Munster really opens up one side of the draw at least and it shows the cruel beauty of knock-out football. Just think if there had been a backdoor, this morning everyone would still have been tipping Kerry to make it to an AIF.   OK, it might not make for a competitive AIF in the Dubs get through, but I think it reinforces a lot of the points that were previously made on this thread.

Cork are always something of a threat to Kerry. Back in the day when Meath or even Kildare were a real threat to Dublin then knockout could be interesting, but now shocks in Munster, Ulster or Connacht merely make it even easier for Dublin.
That's true, but sometimes an underdog winning can give more belief to other underdogs

Cork believed they could beat Kerry, even though logic suggested otherwise. At the moment I think the only two teams left in it who would believe they have a chance of beating Dublin are Mayo and Donegal. The rest would likely be beaten before throw-in. But maybe Cork's win might change that.

Both Meath and Kildare (and maybe even Laois) would fully believe they could beat Cork in a championship match. So seeing what a perceived lesser team did may give them some extra hope or confidence.

They would need Dublin to have an offday. While internet critics slag off Dublin for saying "We're going to face a real challenge v Laois and will have to be at the top of our game", the performances have tended to suggest they do actually bring that attitude to the pitch and they have very few offdays. But it's not impossible. Especially if weather conditions aren't great.
   
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: Rossfan on November 09, 2020, 05:10:24 PM
if a team like cork gets to all ireland final and gets hammered by dublin its still a good tournament the championship is not just abut final.
So the oul Final isn't important? ::)
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: Eire90 on November 09, 2020, 07:59:27 PM
Knockout with the provincials makes the provincials more important and more buzz about them  with the backdoor provincials are not as important.
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: Eire90 on November 09, 2020, 08:00:28 PM
if a team like cork gets to all ireland final and gets hammered by dublin its still a good tournament the championship is not just abut final.
So the oul Final isn't important? ::)

yeah it is but you win the all ireland by winning many battles not just the final
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: Eire90 on November 09, 2020, 08:12:32 PM
i always thought the provincial champions should have got home advantage in the quarter finals in the format before the super 8s
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: Eire90 on November 09, 2020, 08:13:17 PM
it would have been an extra reward for winning a province
Title: Re: Back to the Future - Straight knockout the way forward
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2020, 08:30:31 PM
Kerry's defeat yesterday in Munster really opens up one side of the draw at least and it shows the cruel beauty of knock-out football. Just think if there had been a backdoor, this morning everyone would still have been tipping Kerry to make it to an AIF.   OK, it might not make for a competitive AIF in the Dubs get through, but I think it reinforces a lot of the points that were previously made on this thread.

Cork are always something of a threat to Kerry. Back in the day when Meath or even Kildare were a real threat to Dublin then knockout could be interesting, but now shocks in Munster, Ulster or Connacht merely make it even easier for Dublin.
Cork have a very poor record in all Ireland finals. Second only to Mayo I think