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Non GAA Discussion => General discussion => Topic started by: Hereiam on August 05, 2020, 01:57:06 PM

Title: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Hereiam on August 05, 2020, 01:57:06 PM
So off we go again
Who will win it and who is going down.
Will COVID wreck the fixtures this side of Christmas or should it be played at all.

Interesting times
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Boycey on August 05, 2020, 02:19:55 PM
Other than Liverpool fans I'd say most people thought last season ended very tamely. I don't see much appetite for football with no fans to be honest or any sport for that matter.

Recent happening in Ireland/UK re not increasing crowd numbers and cancelling test events makes me think 'normality' whatever that may be is a long way aways
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: lurganblue on August 05, 2020, 02:52:50 PM
I enjoyed the end to the season, being kept interested in the relegation scrap. But yes I can see that many games were damp squibs.

I expect they will carry on regardless as there is money to be made.  That seems to be the trend in most places now with regards to the virus.

Interested to see how Leeds and Bielsa get on.

The next 3 weeks will be a very busy time in terms of transfers. Wouldn't like to predict anything until the cash has been splashed by most of the teams.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: GetOverTheBar on August 05, 2020, 02:53:29 PM
I enjoyed the end to the season, being kept interested in the relegation scrap. But yes I can see that many games were damp squibs.

I expect they will carry on regardless as there is money to be made.  That seems to be the trend in most places now with regards to the virus.

Interested to see how Leeds and Bielsa get on.

The next 3 weeks will be a very busy time in terms of transfers. Wouldn't like to predict anything until the cash has been splashed by most of the teams.

They will be a great bet for over 3.5 goals every week.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Farrandeelin on August 05, 2020, 02:56:17 PM
So off we go again
Who will win it and who is going down.
Will COVID wreck the fixtures this side of Christmas or should it be played at all.

Interesting times

Liverpool will win it. Don't know who'll go down.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: From the Bunker on August 05, 2020, 03:35:30 PM
So off we go again
Who will win it and who is going down.
Will COVID wreck the fixtures this side of Christmas or should it be played at all.

Interesting times

Liverpool will win it. Don't know who'll go down.

Damn right - Next year is our year!  ;D
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: johnnycool on August 05, 2020, 04:19:06 PM
So off we go again
Who will win it and who is going down.
Will COVID wreck the fixtures this side of Christmas or should it be played at all.

Interesting times

Liverpool will win it. Don't know who'll go down.

I think they'll win it too but certainly not near as comfortable as this year.

City still the biggest challengers.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Cunny Funt on August 13, 2020, 05:03:25 PM
A packed schedule ahead for teams that wants to go far in every competition.


Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 13, 2020, 05:49:28 PM
A packed schedule ahead for teams that wants to go far in every competition.




The size of your squad will be the main thing this year, if you’re light in terms of numbers then you’ll suffer big time
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Boycey on August 13, 2020, 05:54:13 PM
I think I read somewhere that teams still in Europe are guaranteed a month off after they finish? Potentially leaving Utd/City playing even more of a catch up..... God forbid they'd both win their competitions and have to play in The Super Cup too...
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Farrandeelin on August 15, 2020, 07:58:12 AM
Fixtures out yet?
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: From the Bunker on August 15, 2020, 08:55:23 AM
I think I read somewhere that teams still in Europe are guaranteed a month off after they finish? Potentially leaving Utd/City playing even more of a catch up..... God forbid they'd both win their competitions and have to play in The Super Cup too...

If they both won their respective European Competitions. Then all logic would see the Super Cup being played in Manchester?
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Cunny Funt on August 15, 2020, 03:11:44 PM
Fixtures out yet?

August 21st.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: laoislad on September 11, 2020, 10:36:09 PM
What da fook is Chris Waddle smoking??

Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: From the Bunker on September 11, 2020, 10:45:07 PM
Chris Waddle: There are a lot of games jammed into this season and I am looking at the teams with the biggest squads as the ones who will do well. I don't think Liverpool will cope. City will, of course, but I just have a sneaky feeling United will spring a surprise. They already have a lot of quality on their books, and they might sign a couple more.

Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: lurganblue on September 11, 2020, 10:53:14 PM
Predictions then. Some more transfers are to come in of course but for the time being... City win it, with Liverpool a close second. Mid 80s points total. Chelsea 3rd and Utd 4th. If Chelsea don't compete towards the end then fat Frank will be out.

Only 2 relegation teams id pick at the minute are West brom and Fulham. Any 1 from another 10 could also be relegated.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: laoislad on September 11, 2020, 10:57:49 PM
Top 4
Liverpool
Man City
Arsenal
Chelsea

Relegated
Villa
Fulham
West Brom
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: An Watcher on September 11, 2020, 10:58:13 PM
Fancy Sheffield Utd to go down. Second season syndrome, new keeper etc
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Captain Obvious on September 11, 2020, 11:23:30 PM
Liverpools league title to lose. Will Manchester City improve on last season form? I doubt it. Roman Abramovich will sack Lampard if Chelsea don't at least challenge for the title.

Tottenham, Arsenal, Manchester United should battle it out for the final champions league spot.

Relegation 3 from 10 teams.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: BennyCake on September 11, 2020, 11:27:06 PM
Liverpool
City
United
Chelsea

Fulham
West Brom
Brighton
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 11, 2020, 11:42:13 PM
Chris Waddle: There are a lot of games jammed into this season and I am looking at the teams with the biggest squads as the ones who will do well. I don't think Liverpool will cope. City will, of course, but I just have a sneaky feeling United will spring a surprise. They already have a lot of quality on their books, and they might sign a couple more.

Jesus! Must have been on the dope
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on September 12, 2020, 01:21:18 AM
Fancy it going much the same as last year.

Liverpool winning it and City second,  both way ahead of the rest.
Potentially Chelsea third with the help of their new additions,
Arsenal 4th,
Tottenham and United 5th and 6th in no particular order.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Farrandeelin on September 12, 2020, 09:08:05 AM
IF United play like they did from February onwards for the whole season then there's every probability they'll secure 3rd. Liverpool will win it handy again.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: SHEEDY on September 12, 2020, 12:22:47 PM
Liverpool to win it again but it'll be a lot closer than last season, City and Chelsea to run them close. Can't see Liverpool getting 90 odd points again, hard to maintain that unbelievable level of consistency for a 3rd season in a row.

Villa, Fulham and West brom to go down. Dean Smith 1st manager to get the road.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Bronco on September 12, 2020, 12:27:28 PM
Hopefully it's a more entertaining season. Last year was dull and low quality.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: seafoid on September 12, 2020, 01:42:59 PM
IF United play like they did from February onwards for the whole season then there's every probability they'll secure 3rd. Liverpool will win it handy again.
Which would bring them to 20, same as Fergie FC
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: trueblue1234 on September 12, 2020, 06:35:03 PM
Hopefully it's a more entertaining season. Last year was dull and low quality.

Someone trying too hard me thinks...
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Bronco on September 12, 2020, 06:41:42 PM
Not sure what you're getting at. I thought the quality and entertainment in the League last year was really poor. You're of course welcome to disagree.


Hopefully it's a more entertaining season. Last year was dull and low quality.

Someone trying too hard me thinks...
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: lurganblue on September 13, 2020, 10:20:55 AM
Villa well tipped to be the 3rd team to go down on here and by a lot of the pundits. After lockdown, Villa were quite solid. A couple of additions and holding onto Grealish, I'd be hopeful of around 15th.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Farrandeelin on September 13, 2020, 02:57:48 PM
Not sure what you're getting at. I thought the quality and entertainment in the League last year was really poor. You're of course welcome to disagree.


Hopefully it's a more entertaining season. Last year was dull and low quality.

Someone trying too hard me thinks...

You're right Bronco. It was as good as over at Christmas.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Dire Ear on September 13, 2020, 03:35:28 PM
Chelsea
Liverpool
Man City
Arsenal

WBA
Fulham
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on September 13, 2020, 05:35:20 PM
You just relegatin the two this year chap 😃
Thats v magnanimous of you tho the Championship guys wont be happy
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Bronco on September 13, 2020, 06:19:03 PM
It was over well before Christmas, a real lack of quality sides or even entertaining football made for a poor season imo.

Hoping for better viewing this season.

Not sure what you're getting at. I thought the quality and entertainment in the League last year was really poor. You're of course welcome to disagree.


Hopefully it's a more entertaining season. Last year was dull and low quality.

Someone trying too hard me thinks...

You're right Bronco. It was as good as over at Christmas.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Dire Ear on September 13, 2020, 07:13:21 PM
You just relegatin the two this year chap 😃
Thats v magnanimous of you tho the Championship guys wont be happy

And Brighton 😉
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Hound on September 13, 2020, 08:18:57 PM
Liverpool won’t be as good as they were the last 2 seasons, and there’s a good chance Arsenal, ManU and Chelsea could all improve significantly. It’ll depend on how new signings bed in, one of the 3 will disappoint I’d guess.

Man City are the unknown for me. I was hoping Aguero would feck off, as even at his age, he’s still the best striker in the league. Assuming he’s not a regular, I think it’ll be a close league with 4 teams still well in contention in early Spring. But Liverpool and Man City to be better in the run-in.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Bronco on September 13, 2020, 08:26:20 PM
City are totally reliant on Aguero to have any chance of winning the League,Jesus isn't on the same level. And City's defence has been a joke for years. I'd be surprised if they win it.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on September 13, 2020, 11:49:59 PM
Spurs look like relegation candidates today.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: BennyCake on September 13, 2020, 11:52:14 PM
Spurs look like relegation candidates today.

How long will José last?

I doubt he’ll be there at Christmas.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on September 13, 2020, 11:57:58 PM
I'd be surprised too.  Bizarre hiring to begin with.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 14, 2020, 09:23:39 AM
I'd be surprised too.  Bizarre hiring to begin with.

Amazing the lengths Tottenham went to for Amazon with that hiring.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: imtommygunn on September 14, 2020, 09:38:35 AM
The guy's number is up. He hasn't advanced in years. He's useless and I do not understand why spurs went near him. (Though in saying that they will be nowhere near relegation if he stays I suspect)
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: johnnycool on September 14, 2020, 09:48:41 AM
The guy's number is up. He hasn't advanced in years. He's useless and I do not understand why spurs went near him. (Though in saying that they will be nowhere near relegation if he stays I suspect)

He complains about this, that and the other, but he's the one who plays unfit players, ones not right or whatever..

Time Jose owned his own shít.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: thewobbler on September 14, 2020, 10:04:21 AM
I dislike José immensely.

But the reason why Spurs went him is straightforward enough: he wins trophies. Talk about football leaving him behind all you want. But he gets the job done.

——

Can anyone explain to me how Clinton Morrison has a job as a football pundit? Soccer Saturday this week was bland and incohesive. It felt like Final Score. We don’t need another Final Score.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: square_ball on September 14, 2020, 10:30:33 AM

Can anyone explain to me how Clinton Morrison has a job as a football pundit? Soccer Saturday this week was bland and incohesive. It felt like Final Score. We don’t need another Final Score.

I hear Clinton Morrison from time to time on talksport - he genuinely struggles to string a coherent sentence together. Awful pundit he must have a great agent.

Just on Soccer Saturday anybody see the Paddy Power video with the sacked trio? Very funny.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: BennyCake on September 14, 2020, 10:51:36 AM
The guy's number is up. He hasn't advanced in years. He's useless and I do not understand why spurs went near him. (Though in saying that they will be nowhere near relegation if he stays I suspect)

Jose was found out in his last season at Madrid. That was 2013. Baffling how he still gets big jobs. And he will again after Tottenham get rid of him.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 14, 2020, 10:56:01 AM
The guy's number is up. He hasn't advanced in years. He's useless and I do not understand why spurs went near him. (Though in saying that they will be nowhere near relegation if he stays I suspect)

Jose was found out in his last season at Madrid. That was 2013. Baffling how he still gets big jobs. And he will again after Tottenham get rid of him.

In fairness, he did get United a 2nd place finish. As time goes on, that does look like a fairly decent achievement (as well as Europa League).
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Bronco on September 14, 2020, 11:20:44 AM

That 2nd place finish is nearly as impressive as any of his trophies given the dearth of quality in the side.

He's not my cup of tea but there's no denying his managerial record. The simple truth is the players he has at Spurs are a really poor bunch.

The guy's number is up. He hasn't advanced in years. He's useless and I do not understand why spurs went near him. (Though in saying that they will be nowhere near relegation if he stays I suspect)

Jose was found out in his last season at Madrid. That was 2013. Baffling how he still gets big jobs. And he will again after Tottenham get rid of him.

In fairness, he did get United a 2nd place finish. As time goes on, that does look like a fairly decent achievement (as well as Europa League).
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Angelo on September 14, 2020, 12:21:22 PM
Are Spurs really a big club?
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 14, 2020, 12:25:09 PM
Are Spurs really a big club?

Definitely not.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: lurganblue on September 14, 2020, 12:29:50 PM
They're linked with Ings this morning. They would need to have a look at their MF if Winks is still getting a game.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Bronco on September 14, 2020, 12:45:13 PM
Agree on Winks, he's not good enough. But they have so many problems in the side. The keeper seems to make a howler every 3 or 4 games, full backs have been poor for years, the current pair Davies and Doherty aren't great, and there's a lack of creativity in midfield since Eriksen left.

Honestly think a top four finish with the current side would be an amazing acheivement and massively unlikely. As the squad stands I can't see them finishing higher than 6th unless Arsenal make a mess of things.

They're linked with Ings this morning. They would need to have a look at their MF if Winks is still getting a game.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: screenexile on September 14, 2020, 12:55:14 PM
Are Spurs really a big club?

Watch this space. . . if they get the NFL franchise they will be a big club!
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Bronco on September 14, 2020, 01:24:02 PM
Never understood the big club thing. What difference does it make whether they are or aren't? Ultimately to be successful they need to attract the best players,and to do that they need to offer things like money, stadium, quality of life etc. On that front they are a London club with a fantastic stadium, and long-term once the revenues ramp up they'll be in a pretty good position.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Hound on September 14, 2020, 02:19:30 PM
The guy's number is up. He hasn't advanced in years. He's useless and I do not understand why spurs went near him. (Though in saying that they will be nowhere near relegation if he stays I suspect)

Jose was found out in his last season at Madrid. That was 2013. Baffling how he still gets big jobs. And he will again after Tottenham get rid of him.

In fairness, he did get United a 2nd place finish. As time goes on, that does look like a fairly decent achievement (as well as Europa League).
Jose's league finishing achievement was the equivalent to Ole last season. Not contending for the league but secured a CL spot. Last season nobody cared who finished 3rd or 4th (I can't even remember whether it was Chelsea or ManU), the critical thing was not being 5th or 6th, which both Lampard and OGS can be satisfied with. In that year Jose came 2nd, the CL spots 2-4 were reasonably secure about a month out, with none of the 3 being anywhere near City. Nobody cared who finished 2nd, 3rd and 4th (apart from Jose).

Jose did trump Ole by winning the Europa League, which Ole made a reasonably good shot at. Arguably Jose got an easier draw, but you can only beat what's put in front of you.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: BennyCake on September 14, 2020, 03:36:20 PM
Jose comes out of every job smelling of roses. Because it’s all about him, not the team.

I remember Fellaini heading a late winner Europa League once, and Jose smashing and kicking drinks bottles on the sideline. It’s all about me. Look what I done. That goal was all about me. I’m dealing with a limited squad, they won’t give me money to spend, but feck me, I’m still a genius! He’s Brolly-esque, a narcissist.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Capt Pat on September 14, 2020, 09:55:12 PM
Chelsea cruising 3-1 up against Brighton after not playing all that well. 2 of their goals coming from a misplaced backpass and a deflection. I have been disappointed with Havertz who hasn't produced much.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 15, 2020, 09:23:37 AM
The guy's number is up. He hasn't advanced in years. He's useless and I do not understand why spurs went near him. (Though in saying that they will be nowhere near relegation if he stays I suspect)

Jose was found out in his last season at Madrid. That was 2013. Baffling how he still gets big jobs. And he will again after Tottenham get rid of him.

In fairness, he did get United a 2nd place finish. As time goes on, that does look like a fairly decent achievement (as well as Europa League).
Jose's league finishing achievement was the equivalent to Ole last season. Not contending for the league but secured a CL spot. Last season nobody cared who finished 3rd or 4th (I can't even remember whether it was Chelsea or ManU), the critical thing was not being 5th or 6th, which both Lampard and OGS can be satisfied with. In that year Jose came 2nd, the CL spots 2-4 were reasonably secure about a month out, with none of the 3 being anywhere near City. Nobody cared who finished 2nd, 3rd and 4th (apart from Jose).

Jose did trump Ole by winning the Europa League, which Ole made a reasonably good shot at. Arguably Jose got an easier draw, but you can only beat what's put in front of you.

Mourinho also won the Carling Cup. I think he's responsible for 2 of the 3 trophies won by Utd since Ferguson moved on?

Utd fans have no love for Mourinho, but without him, it would have been a solitary FA Cup by Van Gaal in nearly a decade. Simply not good enough. 
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: lurganblue on September 15, 2020, 09:58:52 AM
Chelsea cruising 3-1 up against Brighton after not playing all that well. 2 of their goals coming from a misplaced backpass and a deflection. I have been disappointed with Havertz who hasn't produced much.

Defo wasn't a good start for him or his selection in my dream team. Werner looked very sharp though, and will be a great addition.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: laoislad on September 19, 2020, 04:39:15 PM
Leeds are some craic to watch. What a mental game this is.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Capt Pat on September 21, 2020, 10:11:14 PM
City got out of jail there in the end. City were dominant in the first half but Wolves missed some easy chances in the second half that could have changed the outcome of the game. 3-1 to city with a last second goal.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Capt Pat on September 21, 2020, 10:15:21 PM
Liverpool look the best of the contenders so far. I was going to say the same about City after the first half but they were lucky enough to get the result in the end.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Dar31 on September 21, 2020, 10:26:03 PM
I think its going to be a strange season and your going to need a good squad what with covid  positive tests effecting who can play and there will probably be more injuries as well because of the quick turn around from last season it wont be just about who has the best 11
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Capt Pat on September 22, 2020, 10:13:59 PM
West Ham have had 2 players and the manager test positive for covid 19. I hope it doesn't impact the premier league games.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Taylor on September 23, 2020, 10:55:26 AM
West Ham have had 2 players and the manager test positive for covid 19. I hope it doesn't impact the premier league games.

How did their game go ahead last night?
Surely they had been in contact with the other players
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: laoislad on September 26, 2020, 06:13:26 PM
West Brom 3 up after 30mins against Chelsea!
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: sid waddell on September 26, 2020, 06:22:57 PM
I can't believe a Frank Lampard-managed team is getting thumped like this

A complete shock, nobody could have seen it coming


Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Bronco on September 26, 2020, 06:27:46 PM
Who would have thought a 36 year old defender might not be the best transfer idea?
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: sid waddell on September 26, 2020, 06:54:15 PM
Who would have thought a 36 year old defender might not be the best transfer idea?
To be fair Alex Ferguson made a similar mistake with Laurent Blanc

I see no reason why Frank can't go on to have as successful a managerial career as Ferguson, apart from him being totally clueless
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: imtommygunn on September 26, 2020, 08:07:05 PM
I can't believe a Frank Lampard-managed team is getting thumped like this

A complete shock, nobody could have seen it coming

What a manager  ;D
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: sid waddell on September 26, 2020, 08:30:17 PM
I can't believe a Frank Lampard-managed team is getting thumped like this

A complete shock, nobody could have seen it coming

What a manager  ;D
Awe-inspiring stuff from Lamps

The best of British bravery from his young, wholesome, home grown squad against the untrustworthy, mercenary Johnny Foreigners of Shifty Slaven Bilic

A true moral victory up there with Dunkirk

If the few remaining Chelsea Pensioners weren't being cocooned due to Covid they'd surely be presenting Frank and his fledglings with an award for bravery right now

Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: ziggy90 on September 27, 2020, 08:10:13 AM
I can't believe a Frank Lampard-managed team is getting thumped like this

A complete shock, nobody could have seen it coming

What a manager  ;D
Awe-inspiring stuff from Lamps

The best of British bravery from his young, wholesome, home grown squad against the untrustworthy, mercenary Johnny Foreigners of Shifty Slaven Bilic

A true moral victory up there with Dunkirk

If the few remaining Chelsea Pensioners weren't being cocooned due to Covid they'd surely be presenting Frank and his fledglings with an award for bravery right now

Oi, yow layve the Yam, Yams alone. Alroight.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: square_ball on September 27, 2020, 11:42:49 AM
A few years ago a comeback draw against West Brom was celebrated wildly by a certain club. . .
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on September 27, 2020, 11:53:48 AM
Define wildly
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Bronco on September 27, 2020, 12:29:04 PM
That was Liverpool wasnt it? That was funny.


A few years ago a comeback draw against West Brom was celebrated wildly by a certain club. . .
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: laoislad on September 27, 2020, 12:30:56 PM
A few years ago a comeback draw against West Brom was celebrated wildly by a certain club. . .
Was good practice for nights like this....

https://youtu.be/weec_jzudc8
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Bronco on September 27, 2020, 12:33:00 PM
I thought it was embarrassing but different strokes for different folks...
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: From the Bunker on September 27, 2020, 12:58:14 PM
I thought it was embarrassing but different strokes for different folks...

Ah yes, it all went so wrong after that day! Klopp making sure the fans connected with the players and vice versa.  ;D
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Captain Obvious on September 27, 2020, 04:01:55 PM
VAR strikes again. Dier knew little about that as the ball hit his arm. Newcastles only shot on target the goal from the penalty.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on September 27, 2020, 04:35:11 PM
Theyre determined to turn the game into a farce
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Bronco on September 27, 2020, 04:37:33 PM
I don't have much sympathy for Dier there. He had his arms away from his body and knows the rules, only has himself to blame.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: laoislad on September 27, 2020, 06:08:08 PM
Some performance from Leicester. City all over the place.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 27, 2020, 06:10:36 PM
Is it averaging a penalty game in the premiership?
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Boycey on September 27, 2020, 06:15:45 PM
I see the European Champions got walloped today too, PSG not pulling up many trees either. Still being in pre-season mode not ideal it seems.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: sid waddell on September 27, 2020, 06:37:01 PM
Great stuff

This has been a very exciting opening to the season

Liverpool, Everton, Leeds and Leicester would be a great top four come the end

Proper football

All we need now is Villa challenging again

Lamps can breathe easy that he has an even more defensively naive manager to take the heat off him in the media
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Bronco on September 27, 2020, 06:39:01 PM
League over after 2 games. Liverpool have it won already. Standard is shockingly poor these days.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: delgany on September 27, 2020, 06:42:36 PM
Question re : Man Utd VAR penalty yesterday - game was over, if player hits a post or gk saves and there is a rebound - can they score ? Or is the match completed with the kick ?
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Captain Obvious on September 27, 2020, 06:44:57 PM
Manchester City carrying last season flaky form into the new season.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: sid waddell on September 27, 2020, 06:58:20 PM
League over after 2 games. Liverpool have it won already. Standard is shockingly poor these days.
Standard looks a good deal better in terms of depth than last season, looks like less diddy teams there

Liverpool won't hit 99 points this time

89 might win it
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: thebigfella on September 27, 2020, 07:08:32 PM
Question re : Man Utd VAR penalty yesterday - game was over, if player hits a post or gk saves and there is a rebound - can they score ? Or is the match completed with the kick ?

Match would have been over, it had to go in first time per the rules.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: BennyCake on September 27, 2020, 07:08:58 PM
Pep is turning into Wenger. Already stayed too long.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Bronco on September 27, 2020, 07:59:47 PM
Wenger was great for a decade or so. Guardiola has always been the emperor's new clothes. When Aguero isn't playing they're awful. Totally reliant on a player he inherited and despite having unlimited funds at his disposal he has failed to assemble a decent defence.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Cunny Funt on September 27, 2020, 08:35:45 PM
I see the European Champions got walloped today too, PSG not pulling up many trees either. Still being in pre-season mode not ideal it seems.

Most of the clubs that had European competitions in August seem to be struggling for fitness and sharpness. Watching Wolves now and they look a míle off the pace.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Farrandeelin on September 27, 2020, 09:17:44 PM
League over after 2 games. Liverpool have it won already. Standard is shockingly poor these days.

My thoughts exactly.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: J70 on September 27, 2020, 09:17:59 PM
I don't have much sympathy for Dier there. He had his arms away from his body and knows the rules, only has himself to blame.

Have you ever played football?

There is simply no way to jump for a ball, especially amidst a group, without your arms coming away from your body.

That handball was a joke. Same with Palace yesterday, Spurs last week and united last week.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Bronco on September 27, 2020, 09:43:55 PM
Yes, I have played football. And i always found it was a good idea not to give stupid penalties away. Seems Dier hasn't learned that lesson yet.

The bottom line is he knows the rule, he knows Newcastle are desperate for a goal, and yet he still flails an arm out in the box. Absolute stupidity and he got what he deserved.



I don't have much sympathy for Dier there. He had his arms away from his body and knows the rules, only has himself to blame.

Have you ever played football?

There is simply no way to jump for a ball, especially amidst a group, without your arms coming away from your body.

That handball was a joke. Same with Palace yesterday, Spurs last week and united last week.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Boycey on September 27, 2020, 09:44:41 PM
Fair play to Steve Bruce for calling it like it was today.....
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: thewobbler on September 27, 2020, 10:58:08 PM
Yes, I have played football. And i always found it was a good idea not to give stupid penalties away. Seems Dier hasn't learned that lesson yet.

The bottom line is he knows the rule, he knows Newcastle are desperate for a goal, and yet he still flails an arm out in the box. Absolute stupidity and he got what he deserved.



I don't have much sympathy for Dier there. He had his arms away from his body and knows the rules, only has himself to blame.

Have you ever played football?

There is simply no way to jump for a ball, especially amidst a group, without your arms coming away from your body.

That handball was a joke. Same with Palace yesterday, Spurs last week and united last week.

I doubt you have ever played any sport to be honest. The rules of all sports are designed (and evolve) to prevent competitors from gaining an unsporting advantage; they are designed to reward skill, application, intelligence and precision. They aren’t designed to reward unskilled play, or random instances of bad luck.

You want to try your luck, go to a casino.

Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Never beat the deeler on September 27, 2020, 11:23:00 PM
Question re : Man Utd VAR penalty yesterday - game was over, if player hits a post or gk saves and there is a rebound - can they score ? Or is the match completed with the kick ?

Good question and I don't know the answer. To follow the logic - if it was over with the last kick, wouldn't that also mean that if the keeper got a hand to it, the game would be over before the ball went in?
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: J70 on September 28, 2020, 12:34:58 AM
Fair play to Steve Bruce for calling it like it was today.....

It’s going to bite every team on the arse eventually.

If they don’t change it, players are simply going to have to stop tackling and challenging for the ball in the air when in the box.

Worst part is that there was little wrong with the old, traditional interpretation of handball.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Hound on September 28, 2020, 07:37:06 AM
I don't have much sympathy for Dier there. He had his arms away from his body and knows the rules, only has himself to blame.

Have you ever played football?

There is simply no way to jump for a ball, especially amidst a group, without your arms coming away from your body.

That handball was a joke. Same with Palace yesterday, Spurs last week and united last week.

I wouldn’t lump them all in together. I understand what the new rules are trying to do, and most of them are fair enough. As Souness said, it’s our mindset that has to change, we’re so used to watching them not been given for years that we just scream ‘too harsh’. The new rules make it easier for decisions to be consistent, and generally they have been, but there’ll always be errors.

The Dier one was definitely an error. A poor decision. Made all the more massive by the timing. Hopefully the premier league will admit the mistake and note the difference between it and the others.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Dar31 on September 28, 2020, 07:50:50 AM
Question re : Man Utd VAR penalty yesterday - game was over, if player hits a post or gk saves and there is a rebound - can they score ? Or is the match completed with the kick ?

I think i read that there cant be any rebound as the match is over and the penalty will literally be the lask kick of the game
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: J70 on September 28, 2020, 10:19:16 AM
I don't have much sympathy for Dier there. He had his arms away from his body and knows the rules, only has himself to blame.

Have you ever played football?

There is simply no way to jump for a ball, especially amidst a group, without your arms coming away from your body.

That handball was a joke. Same with Palace yesterday, Spurs last week and united last week.

I wouldn’t lump them all in together. I understand what the new rules are trying to do, and most of them are fair enough. As Souness said, it’s our mindset that has to change, we’re so used to watching them not been given for years that we just scream ‘too harsh’. The new rules make it easier for decisions to be consistent, and generally they have been, but there’ll always be errors.

The Dier one was definitely an error. A poor decision. Made all the more massive by the timing. Hopefully the premier league will admit the mistake and note the difference between it and the others.

I disagree.

This whole “unnaturally bigger” thing is bullshit.

How can moving one’s arms and hands, unconsciously, as part of moving and twisting your body be considered to be making your body unnaturally bigger? If you jump, your arms go up. If you slide in, your arms go out and back. It’s all part of the body’s balancing system.

These rules are unrealistic and uninformed.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: johnnycool on September 28, 2020, 12:36:40 PM
As someone who follows Everton, the penalty they got vrs Palace really shouldn't have been given, just like the one Newcastle got yesterday.

I get what they're trying to do in preventing what I'd have called the John Terry Gaelic football block, but holy lord Dyer had his back to it when the ball came off his arm.

Madness.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Hound on September 28, 2020, 10:24:09 PM
10 premier league players test positive in latest round of testing.

Hope it’s not the start of a wave. Be interesting to see what the PL r number will be from this 10.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Farrandeelin on September 29, 2020, 09:52:23 AM
So off we go again
Who will win it and who is going down.
Will COVID wreck the fixtures this side of Christmas or should it be played at all.

Interesting times

Liverpool will win it. Don't know who'll go down.

First one to say Liverpool will win it. It's over now. Lock the thread until next July or August.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: square_ball on September 29, 2020, 10:33:16 AM
Liverpool are by a country mile the best team in the league. I’d fancy them strongly against Bayern in Europe as well.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: BennyCake on September 29, 2020, 11:20:48 AM
Liverpool will walk the league again. City will be mediocre again (Pep maybe going before seasons end), but the rest of the teams aren’t good enough to claim second place. So City will likely finish runners up again.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: shark on September 29, 2020, 12:41:59 PM
Liverpool will walk the league again. City will be mediocre again (Pep maybe going before seasons end), but the rest of the teams aren’t good enough to claim second place. So City will likely finish runners up again.

Agree. Liverpool will be well ahead.
Can second place with 81 points really be considered mediocre though? Has the bar been raised that high? I'm sure City targeted higher, but they were better than mediocre.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: J70 on September 29, 2020, 12:48:54 PM
Three games gone (two for City, who didn't have much of a pre-season).
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: lurganblue on September 29, 2020, 12:55:17 PM
Two games done for Villa and two that would have been targeted as winnable.  Sitting where they would want to be after those fixtures.  It has defo worked out better than having the Citeh match first instead. 

Not expecting anything from Liverpool next, or the Leicester game after for that matter.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: BennyCake on September 29, 2020, 01:55:47 PM
Liverpool will walk the league again. City will be mediocre again (Pep maybe going before seasons end), but the rest of the teams aren’t good enough to claim second place. So City will likely finish runners up again.

Agree. Liverpool will be well ahead.
Can second place with 81 points really be considered mediocre though? Has the bar been raised that high? I'm sure City targeted higher, but they were better than mediocre.

In terms of the squad, money, facilities and supposedly great manager they have, plus the fact the standard of the teams in the PL aren’t great, then yes, they were mediocre.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Maroon Manc on September 29, 2020, 02:03:51 PM
City should be doing better.

Pep inherited Aguero, Silva, De Bruyne, Sterling & Fernandinho and has spent over £750m on players since he arrived.

Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 29, 2020, 02:25:45 PM
If you can't win it, you can only finish 2nd. Bar his first season he's only not finished in the Top 2 once and that was also the only time his career he finished a season without winning something?

Guardiola gets a rough ride by Utd and Liverpool fans, not entirely sure why. But to say City should be doing better? Its 3 games in. Actually, 2 for them.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Bronco on September 29, 2020, 02:36:38 PM
City should be doing much better. As someone said Guardiola inherited world class attacking talent,all he needed to do was assemble a half-decent defence. He has utterly failed to do so despite wasting hundreds of millions.

Should have lost his job years ago.

Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: sid waddell on September 29, 2020, 02:37:35 PM
Two league titles in four season is the bare minimum you'd have expected from Guardiola, especially with none of Manchester City's rivals being very good when he came in, he came in at a low ebb for the Premier League

He has been a failure in Europe, there's no getting away from it, and it looks unlikely he will turn things around, Manchester City look miles off where they were 18 months ago, I think he'll be gone inside a year anyway

His style has become too intense and robotic, he doesn't encourage on-pitch leadership whereas Klopp does, the personality and joy flows out of the Liverpool players whereas City have become a team of faceless, miserable automatons

He has been well overshadowed by Klopp and Liverpool at this stage
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 29, 2020, 02:51:21 PM
Two league titles in four season is the bare minimum you'd have expected from Guardiola, especially with none of Manchester City's rivals being very good when he came in, he came in at a low ebb for the Premier League

He has been a failure in Europe, there's no getting away from it, and it looks unlikely he will turn things around, Manchester City look miles off where they were 18 months ago, I think he'll be gone inside a year anyway

His style has become too intense and robotic, he doesn't encourage on-pitch leadership whereas Klopp does, the personality and joy flows out of the Liverpool players whereas City have become a team of faceless, miserable automatons

He has been well overshadowed by Klopp and Liverpool at this stage

Football tends to go in cycles....Klopp undoubtedly is on the crest of the wave. But that wave has been two seasons long.

Guardiola has been at the top table for well over a decade now, started his management career much later to boot. It would be foolish to write him off. Your points about leadership on the City team are fair enough, no one club should look to (on the outside anyway) suffer when such a leader like Kompany goes.

We are only starting a strange new season as we've seen already, I don't think the obituaries for Pep are needed just yet. Lets remember they were written for Brendan Rodgers just over a month ago and now he's smashed City in their own back yard to look every inch the top level manager.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Captain Obvious on September 29, 2020, 02:56:02 PM
Manchester City finished 18 points off 1st last season, their title challenge was as good as over in December. Knocked out of the FA Cup by average Arsenal side and Lyon far from the best in France knocked them out of Europe. To say Guardiola should be doing better is a bit of understatement.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: BennyCake on September 29, 2020, 03:55:34 PM
Two league titles in four season is the bare minimum you'd have expected from Guardiola, especially with none of Manchester City's rivals being very good when he came in, he came in at a low ebb for the Premier League

He has been a failure in Europe, there's no getting away from it, and it looks unlikely he will turn things around, Manchester City look miles off where they were 18 months ago, I think he'll be gone inside a year anyway

His style has become too intense and robotic, he doesn't encourage on-pitch leadership whereas Klopp does, the personality and joy flows out of the Liverpool players whereas City have become a team of faceless, miserable automatons

He has been well overshadowed by Klopp and Liverpool at this stage

Football tends to go in cycles....Klopp undoubtedly is on the crest of the wave. But that wave has been two seasons long.

Guardiola has been at the top table for well over a decade now, started his management career much later to boot. It would be foolish to write him off. Your points about leadership on the City team are fair enough, no one club should look to (on the outside anyway) suffer when such a leader like Kompany goes.

We are only starting a strange new season as we've seen already, I don't think the obituaries for Pep are needed just yet. Lets remember they were written for Brendan Rodgers just over a month ago and now he's smashed City in their own back yard to look every inch the top level manager.

Has he though?

Barcelona won CL in 06, so they were hardly in the doldrums, and they were there or thereabouts in the CL the two seasons before he came in. Big Sam could have won what Pep won with that Barcelona side. He inherited one of the best club sides in history.

He went to Bayern with a bagful of money. A Bayern side who were CL winners the season before and were the top team in Germany for maybe 20 years. He never got close to a CL with them. A couple of leagues, but that’s a minimum requirement there.

Same with City. I don’t believe he got as far in CL as Pellegrini did. And City have been poor in Europe. A couple of PL’s he’s won, but with all that money and players at his disposal, it’s the absolute minimum you’d expect.

Until he drags a team from mid table and limited resources to success, the jury is still out on Pep.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 29, 2020, 04:15:13 PM
Two league titles in four season is the bare minimum you'd have expected from Guardiola, especially with none of Manchester City's rivals being very good when he came in, he came in at a low ebb for the Premier League

He has been a failure in Europe, there's no getting away from it, and it looks unlikely he will turn things around, Manchester City look miles off where they were 18 months ago, I think he'll be gone inside a year anyway

His style has become too intense and robotic, he doesn't encourage on-pitch leadership whereas Klopp does, the personality and joy flows out of the Liverpool players whereas City have become a team of faceless, miserable automatons

He has been well overshadowed by Klopp and Liverpool at this stage

Football tends to go in cycles....Klopp undoubtedly is on the crest of the wave. But that wave has been two seasons long.

Guardiola has been at the top table for well over a decade now, started his management career much later to boot. It would be foolish to write him off. Your points about leadership on the City team are fair enough, no one club should look to (on the outside anyway) suffer when such a leader like Kompany goes.

We are only starting a strange new season as we've seen already, I don't think the obituaries for Pep are needed just yet. Lets remember they were written for Brendan Rodgers just over a month ago and now he's smashed City in their own back yard to look every inch the top level manager.

Has he though?

Barcelona won CL in 06, so they were hardly in the doldrums, and they were there or thereabouts in the CL the two seasons before he came in. Big Sam could have won what Pep won with that Barcelona side. He inherited one of the best club sides in history.

He went to Bayern with a bagful of money. A Bayern side who were CL winners the season before and were the top team in Germany for maybe 20 years. He never got close to a CL with them. A couple of leagues, but that’s a minimum requirement there.

Same with City. I don’t believe he got as far in CL as Pellegrini did. And City have been poor in Europe. A couple of PL’s he’s won, but with all that money and players at his disposal, it’s the absolute minimum you’d expect.

Until he drags a team from mid table and limited resources to success, the jury is still out on Pep.

Ah now come on. True, he inherited a good team, but you have to remember it was he who dumped Eto'o, Deco and for me the greatest of them all, Ronaldinho out on their holes. Back then he was called a maniac, a mad man. That was a seriously brave call by a young, inexperienced coach (I think he had done one year at Barca B prior).

He inherited good players of course, but the decisions he made set Barca on course to be probably one of the greatest club sides in history. He brought in Busquets, Pedro etc from the Youth Set up and basically cleaned Barcelona up from top to bottom.

What Guardiola did at Barca often gets the "ah sure they were good anyway" thing. Messi was only arriving onto the scene, of course having such a generational talent helps grease the wheels but the man arguably laid the foundations for both Barcelona the Club and indirectly Spain the Country to be the most dominant forces at that time. Could we make the argument Messi would have have been as good unless he had that exact coach, at that exact time?

We always hear the until he does so and so the jury is out. But when has a manager of that reputation ever dipped down to a level below when he hasn't needed to?

Guardiola isn't without his flaws, obviously no UCL at Bayern and City as yet will be the stick to beat him but that is the beauty of the European Cup - sometimes even when you totally deserve it, it's still a Cup competition.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Armamike on September 29, 2020, 05:06:47 PM
Given his resources the only true benchmark to measure success for Guardiola is the Champions League. City have made little if any headway in his time in the CL. Not just the past few weeks, but for a number of seasons there have been questions over Pep. He set himself high standards to reach from his time at Barcelona, but the fact that he didn't take Bayern and now City within a mile of winning the CL, will gnaw away at him privately.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on September 29, 2020, 06:07:02 PM
Guardiola is a chequebook manager. He doesn't even compare to Klopp.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: sid waddell on September 29, 2020, 06:21:25 PM
Different managers are cut out for different levels and ego is a massive part of that, to manage at the real top level yu have to have total certainty in yourself and an ego to match, for example it became apparent very quickly that David Moyes didn't have that

Solskjaer doesn't have it either, neither does Lampard for all his front

The notion that Sam Allardyce would have done what Guardiola did with Barcelona is laughable

Guardiola will never manage a Burnley for the same reason Michael Schumacher didn't drive a Minardi

Guardiola's style was designed for the very top end of the game, it was designed to produce relentless winning machines who totally destroyed opponents, it was almost an intellectual exercise, a sort of grand football plan like Baron Haussman's idea to rebuild Paris

He is still able to produce relentless winning machines, and did it with Manchester City for two years, but what he demands of players, and of himself, is so draining that it seems it can only be sustained for a reasonably short period of time

At Barcelona that was three years, Bayern three, he's now over four years into it at Manchester City which is longer than he spent with either Barcelona or Bayern

And his failings in European ties are consistent

Over the last seven years he has consistently found new and more hilarious ways to lose

He is a genius, but the very intensity that produces winning machines in the league means he overthinks things in big cup matches

His leaders have always been inherited, but he doesn't sign leaders

Vincent Kompany's worth to Manchester City was incalculable

He dislikes personality and prefers roboticism, and in big cup matches that's a serious drawback

You could even see it as far back as that semi-final against Chelsea in 2009 when Barcelona spent 92 minutes banging their heads off a brick wall before one mistake by a Chelsea player set up the chance for Iniesta

Even in 2011, their absolute peak, Barcelona were one gilt edged Nicklas Bendtner chance away from elimination

I don't think he'll get Manchester City back to where they were, the fire has burned out there and I don't think he's a repair man

Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: sid waddell on September 29, 2020, 06:25:03 PM
Guardiola is a chequebook manager. He doesn't even compare to Klopp.
He isn't that at all, he's a coach, his signings have very often let him down, his main players have nearly always been inherited, he's quite poor in the transfer market

He's very good at coming into an already very good team and turning them into a relentless winning machine in a league situation but he seems to completely lose his marbles in high pressure cup situations
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on September 29, 2020, 06:36:45 PM
Guardiola is a chequebook manager. He doesn't even compare to Klopp.
He isn't that at all, he's a coach, his signings have very often let him down, his main players have nearly always been inherited, he's quite poor in the transfer market

He's very good at coming into an already very good team and turning them into a relentless winning machine in a league situation but he seems to completely lose his marbles in high pressure cup situations
He is absolutely a chequebook manager, look what he has spent. Anyone could've won trophies with the teams he's managed.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: sid waddell on September 29, 2020, 06:46:05 PM
Guardiola is a chequebook manager. He doesn't even compare to Klopp.
He isn't that at all, he's a coach, his signings have very often let him down, his main players have nearly always been inherited, he's quite poor in the transfer market

He's very good at coming into an already very good team and turning them into a relentless winning machine in a league situation but he seems to completely lose his marbles in high pressure cup situations
He is absolutely a chequebook manager, look what he has spent. Anyone could've won trophies with the teams he's managed.
Go through his career, his key players have rarely been big signings, they have usually been inherited

Anyway, hope for the rest - Thiago Alcantara has tested positive for Covid
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Boycey on September 29, 2020, 06:46:32 PM
So Guardiolas not very good now, some of you boys shouldn't be let on the internet  :)
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: An Watcher on September 29, 2020, 07:06:52 PM
Jesus lads I watched a bit of that game last night and I have to say it's brutal to watch. In general soccer is away to the dogs. No challenges, players paid a fortune, VAR, the list goes on. Brutal
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on September 29, 2020, 07:11:49 PM
So Guardiolas not very good now, some of you boys shouldn't be let on the internet  :)
Not really no. This narrative that he's a good manager because he has won with the best squad of players in each country he has been in with a blank chequebook is laughable.
He should go and manage the likes of Atletico Madrid, Arsenal, Lyon/Marseille or AC Milan, and prove himself like Klopp has done, but he won't, because only goes to the top team with a blank chequebook. Juve or PSG will be next for him i'd imagine.
Hope that helps Boycey.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Captain Obvious on September 29, 2020, 07:23:54 PM
He dislikes personality and prefers roboticism, and in big cup matches that's a serious drawback

Wasn't a drawback for Jim Gavin but I suppose GAA management is a bit different than trying to manage overpaid professionals across the water.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Boycey on September 29, 2020, 07:28:04 PM
So Guardiolas not very good now, some of you boys shouldn't be let on the internet  :)
Not really no. This narrative that he's a good manager because he has won with the best squad of players in each country he has been in with a blank chequebook is laughable.
He should go and manage the likes of Atletico Madrid, Arsenal, Lyon/Marseille or AC Milan, and prove himself like Klopp has done, but he won't, because only goes to the top team with a blank chequebook. Juve or PSG will be next for him i'd imagine.
Hope that helps Boycey.

He needs to prove himself  ;D
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: SHEEDY on September 29, 2020, 07:30:43 PM
So Guardiolas not very good now, some of you boys shouldn't be let on the internet  :)
Not really no. This narrative that he's a good manager because he has won with the best squad of players in each country he has been in with a blank chequebook is laughable.
He should go and manage the likes of Atletico Madrid, Arsenal, Lyon/Marseille or AC Milan, and prove himself like Klopp has done, but he won't, because only goes to the top team with a blank chequebook. Juve or PSG will be next for him i'd imagine.
Hope that helps Boycey.
jeez man, you'd think the way you were talking klopp has done it on a shoestring. Pep has spent lots of money, so has klopp, Klopp spent massive money sorting out his goalkeeper and defence. City have played 2 games, bit early to write the obituary yet.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: thewobbler on September 29, 2020, 07:37:35 PM
Guardiola had City playing truly exceptional football two seasons ago. I wondered at the time how he managed to keep a bunch of spoiled, pampered millionaires so tuned in and committed.

Turns out it didn’t happen like that. As soon as Liverpool challenged their performance levels and made it into a scrap, they were found wanting.

But the same thing will happen to Liverpool sooner or later. Maybe this season, maybe next. A bunch of pampered twats in all reality probably won’t like it when they have to knock their pans out in order to stay on top, and a couple of injuries later and a couple of defeats later, they are reined back into being a good team, not a great one.


The key to all of this is of course what Fergie did at United, and turn the team over completely every 3-4 years. But people forget that Fergie did throw in some lean years (in a less competitive league) doing this too.

FWIW both Koop and Guardiola are fanaatic managers. The ability to coach and coerce The highest ego of horrible **** footballers to play in a system and work hard for 90 mins is a rare, rare gift.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: J70 on September 29, 2020, 08:22:58 PM
Guardiola had City playing truly exceptional football two seasons ago. I wondered at the time how he managed to keep a bunch of spoiled, pampered millionaires so tuned in and committed.

Turns out it didn’t happen like that. As soon as Liverpool challenged their performance levels and made it into a scrap, they were found wanting.

But the same thing will happen to Liverpool sooner or later. Maybe this season, maybe next. A bunch of pampered twats in all reality probably won’t like it when they have to knock their pans out in order to stay on top, and a couple of injuries later and a couple of defeats later, they are reined back into being a good team, not a great one.


The key to all of this is of course what Fergie did at United, and turn the team over completely every 3-4 years. But people forget that Fergie did throw in some lean years (in a less competitive league) doing this too.

FWIW both Koop and Guardiola are fanaatic managers. The ability to coach and coerce The highest ego of horrible **** footballers to play in a system and work hard for 90 mins is a rare, rare gift.

You don't have much for pro-footballers, do you? ;D :P
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 29, 2020, 08:48:41 PM
Guardiola is a chequebook manager. He doesn't even compare to Klopp.

I mean this one says it all. Klopp was fairly average in England until......yep, you guessed it, splashed the cash.

Both have been successful in England and in their careers, both are exceptional managers, but lets call a spade a spade.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on September 29, 2020, 09:04:47 PM
So Guardiolas not very good now, some of you boys shouldn't be let on the internet  :)
Not really no. This narrative that he's a good manager because he has won with the best squad of players in each country he has been in with a blank chequebook is laughable.
He should go and manage the likes of Atletico Madrid, Arsenal, Lyon/Marseille or AC Milan, and prove himself like Klopp has done, but he won't, because only goes to the top team with a blank chequebook. Juve or PSG will be next for him i'd imagine.
Hope that helps Boycey.

He needs to prove himself  ;D
I agree, he does.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Boycey on September 29, 2020, 09:07:54 PM
So Guardiolas not very good now, some of you boys shouldn't be let on the internet  :)
Not really no. This narrative that he's a good manager because he has won with the best squad of players in each country he has been in with a blank chequebook is laughable.
He should go and manage the likes of Atletico Madrid, Arsenal, Lyon/Marseille or AC Milan, and prove himself like Klopp has done, but he won't, because only goes to the top team with a blank chequebook. Juve or PSG will be next for him i'd imagine.
Hope that helps Boycey.

He needs to prove himself  ;D
I agree, he does.

I'll mark you down as one to avoid in football conversations
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on September 29, 2020, 09:10:12 PM
Guardiola is a chequebook manager. He doesn't even compare to Klopp.

I mean this one says it all. Klopp was fairly average in England until......yep, you guessed it, splashed the cash.

Both have been successful in England and in their careers, both are exceptional managers, but lets call a spade a spade.
Lets call a spade a spade. Klopp wasn't fairly average before he "splashed the cash". He got a Liverpool team from Rodgers that were in mid table and got the same team back into the top 4 and to a league cup final.
He then signed Van dijk and got them to a Champions League final. Add Alisson to that and they win it the following year.
Guardiola has spent about a billion quid at man city and about half of that is on defenders. Klopp's net spend at Liverpool is about 1/10 of that of Man City's. So lets call a spade a spade.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on September 29, 2020, 09:11:55 PM
So Guardiolas not very good now, some of you boys shouldn't be let on the internet  :)
Not really no. This narrative that he's a good manager because he has won with the best squad of players in each country he has been in with a blank chequebook is laughable.
He should go and manage the likes of Atletico Madrid, Arsenal, Lyon/Marseille or AC Milan, and prove himself like Klopp has done, but he won't, because only goes to the top team with a blank chequebook. Juve or PSG will be next for him i'd imagine.
Hope that helps Boycey.

He needs to prove himself  ;D
I agree, he does.

I'll mark you down as one to avoid in football conversations
Good man, save me wasting my time spelling it out for you.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: sid waddell on September 29, 2020, 09:25:43 PM
Guardiola had City playing truly exceptional football two seasons ago. I wondered at the time how he managed to keep a bunch of spoiled, pampered millionaires so tuned in and committed.

Turns out it didn’t happen like that. As soon as Liverpool challenged their performance levels and made it into a scrap, they were found wanting.

That isn't true at all

Manchester City were seven points down at Christmas 2018

They won their last 13 games of that season to win the league by one point
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: sid waddell on September 29, 2020, 09:58:56 PM
He dislikes personality and prefers roboticism, and in big cup matches that's a serious drawback

Wasn't a drawback for Jim Gavin but I suppose GAA management is a bit different than trying to manage overpaid professionals across the water.
Jim Gavin never discouraged personality in his players, he encouraged it

There were huge personalities in that Dublin team - Connolly, McCaffrey, McManaman, Brogan, Cooper, McMahon, Cluxton - Gavin was not afraid to bring back Connolly last year, it took balls to do that

But they were very varied personalities - and those personalities always had to operate within the framework of the team

Personality has to be nudged in the right direction

That's what Klopp does and it's what Gavin did

It's when you get those mixtures of personalities all pulling together that you get a potent force -  a dressing room is an eco-system - you need a mixture of personalities - and I think it's in knockout games that you see that come to the fore most

I don't think Guardiola encourages that mixture of personalities, he wants everybody to be the same - that can work for a while, and it always does for him because he is an exceptional coach on the football side of things - but in the long run, it seems to lead to burnout

That's why I say Kompany was a huge loss, because he provided something different in terms of personality, he was their true leader, their Brian Dooher, and when he went, there was nobody left to replace him

Puyol was similar at Barca

In a different way Guardiola's teams also sort of remind me of Kerry 2000-2011

Extremely consistent and much too good for most teams, but when they met a formidable opponent who had serious on field leaders who would not be cowed, they tended to come undone

Whereas Gavin's teams always won the matches that really counted, bar the Donegal aberration in 2014 - because they combined consistency and class with superior on-field leadership

I think Klopp encourages on-field leadership and personality much more so than Guardiola and that's why Liverpool have moved far ahead

It also makes for a happier camp, you can tell players love playing for Klopp, he's a players' man

Guardiola isn't a players' man, Mourinho sort of used to be in his Chelsea and Inter days but long ago lost that touch and for the last decade has been misery and paranoia personified

Guardiola is an extremely intense coach who challenges players hugely but in a different way to Klopp I think -  it seems more of a grind - Klopp is more likeable on a basic personality level, he has a gift










Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: thewobbler on September 29, 2020, 10:01:23 PM
You’re very right Sid.

My angle is more that they were on this other world level in league football that season, and when Liverpool came along and matched them blow for blow, they weren’t bothered initially - but they hadnt the heart needed for a relentless drive the following season.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: sid waddell on September 29, 2020, 10:15:49 PM
You’re very right Sid.

My angle is more that they were on this other world level in league football that season, and when Liverpool came along and matched them blow for blow, they weren’t bothered initially - but they hadnt the heart needed for a relentless drive the following season.
I think that's more down to Guardiola's intensity and the loss of Vincent Kompany rather than anything else, and Liverpool were so relentless that dropped early season points that in other years would not have proved fatal did so last season

Nevertheless it was clear as the season wore on that serious cracks were emerging

The latter part of the 2018/19 season was Manchester City's true peak under Guardiola while Barcelona's true peak under Guardiola was 2010/11 culminating in that incredible performance in the final against Manchester United

But it didn't take Barcelona long to drop from that peak, they weren't the same team the following season and Guardiola himself looked burned out and resigned

Perhaps the aversion to being challenged is Guardiola's himself - his idea of football is based on total domination - it's a high end idea of football for the highest end standard - most of the time that domination happens, but when it doesn't it seems he often doesn't know what to do

His victories have generally been crushing ones where his team sweep all comers aside, but in the close battles, he doesn't have a good record

That said at least five of his Champions League exits have been in very strange and unlucky manners - Inter 2010 with the ash cloud and a disallowed goal, Chelsea 2012 when Messi missed a penalty, Atletico Madrid 2016 with another missed penalty, Tottenham 2019 with the disallowed goal at the end, and I would even throw in this year with Sterling's miss against Lyon

I think Bayern would have beaten them comfortably had they got past Lyon however
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Captain Obvious on September 29, 2020, 11:51:39 PM

Jim Gavin never discouraged personality in his players, he encouraged it

There were huge personalities in that Dublin team - Connolly, McCaffrey, McManaman, Brogan, Cooper, McMahon, Cluxton - Gavin was not afraid to bring back Connolly last year, it took balls to do that


Off the pitch and in the dressing room I have no doubt many had big personalities however the very definition of roboticism on the field was seen in McManaman,Brogan,Cooper, McMahon,Cluxton.   Cluxton remained in that mode for speeches/cup presentations.

For neutrals McCaffrey is probably Dublins most likeable player because he doesn't seem to take himself or the sport as serious as his others. Connolly was dropped because he was too much of a maverick for Gavins liking and had discipline issues. It was then smart by Jim to bring Connolly back into the panel.  A diversionary sideshow was in place to take the media's full attention off the 5 in a row campaign and before making his preplanned exit he didn't want to be known as the manager that finished Connollys county career.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 29, 2020, 11:53:43 PM
Guardiola is a chequebook manager. He doesn't even compare to Klopp.

I mean this one says it all. Klopp was fairly average in England until......yep, you guessed it, splashed the cash.

Both have been successful in England and in their careers, both are exceptional managers, but lets call a spade a spade.
Lets call a spade a spade. Klopp wasn't fairly average before he "splashed the cash". He got a Liverpool team from Rodgers that were in mid table and got the same team back into the top 4 and to a league cup final.
He then signed Van dijk and got them to a Champions League final. Add Alisson to that and they win it the following year.
Guardiola has spent about a billion quid at man city and about half of that is on defenders. Klopp's net spend at Liverpool is about 1/10 of that of Man City's. So lets call a spade a spade.

This was the Rodgers team that months before had finished 2nd wasn't it?

Klopp has broke two world transfer records whilst in charge (Goalkeeper and Defender) . I don't see what the problem with pointing this out is, especially when you point out Guardiola has spent X amount on defenders, surely you can acknowledge that it's not much different to Klopp really, it would just appear Klopp signings have been more successful in the past few years.

They are both top level managers but let's disregard the propaganda that one team spends and the other doesn't.

Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on September 30, 2020, 12:07:09 AM
Guardiola is a chequebook manager. He doesn't even compare to Klopp.

I mean this one says it all. Klopp was fairly average in England until......yep, you guessed it, splashed the cash.

Both have been successful in England and in their careers, both are exceptional managers, but lets call a spade a spade.
Lets call a spade a spade. Klopp wasn't fairly average before he "splashed the cash". He got a Liverpool team from Rodgers that were in mid table and got the same team back into the top 4 and to a league cup final.
He then signed Van dijk and got them to a Champions League final. Add Alisson to that and they win it the following year.
Guardiola has spent about a billion quid at man city and about half of that is on defenders. Klopp's net spend at Liverpool is about 1/10 of that of Man City's. So lets call a spade a spade.

This was the Rodgers team that months before had finished 2nd wasn't it?

Klopp has broke two world transfer records whilst in charge (Goalkeeper and Defender) . I don't see what the problem with pointing this out is, especially when you point out Guardiola has spent X amount on defenders, surely you can acknowledge that it's not much different to Klopp really, it would just appear Klopp signings have been more successful in the past few years.

They are both top level managers but let's disregard the propaganda that one team spends and the other doesn't.
There is no problem with pointing that out. The difference is that Man City's net spend is several hundreds of million larger than Liverpool's. Van Dijk and Alisson were funded by the sale of Coutinho, whereas City can spend as much as they please. That has never been the case at Liverpool. Even with Thiago and Jota, two signings who will be paid off over the next 4/5 years.
So I think it's fair to say one team spends, and it is definitely different to Klopp and Liverpool.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 12:37:45 AM

Jim Gavin never discouraged personality in his players, he encouraged it

There were huge personalities in that Dublin team - Connolly, McCaffrey, McManaman, Brogan, Cooper, McMahon, Cluxton - Gavin was not afraid to bring back Connolly last year, it took balls to do that


Off the pitch and in the dressing room I have no doubt many had big personalities however the very definition of roboticism on the field was seen in McManaman,Brogan,Cooper, McMahon,Cluxton.   Cluxton remained in that mode for speeches/cup presentations.

For neutrals McCaffrey is probably Dublins most likeable player because he doesn't seem to take himself or the sport as serious as his others. Connolly was dropped because he was too much of a maverick for Gavins liking and had discipline issues. It was then smart by Jim to bring Connolly back into the panel.  A diversionary sideshow was in place to take the media's full attention off the 5 in a row campaign and before making his preplanned exit he didn't want to be known as the manager that finished Connollys county career.
Connolly was always a maverick, and definitely still was in the early days of Gavin's tenure - see his performance against Cork in 2013 which was comically bad, everything he tried was totally off the cuff like you'd see him do for Vincent's and it turned to ash

If a player did that under Guardiola they'd be whipped off quicksmart

But Connolly changed after that game, the Kerry game of 2013 was the first time we saw real peak Connolly where his natural flair was properly harnessed within a team framework

Connolly was still an integral part of Gavin's plans until he got suspended, by the time he came back he had missed a lot of football, a whole summer almost

But Gavin still turned to him when he needed him at half-time against Mayo

I don't think Gavin would have brought Connolly back in 2019 had he not believed he had something to offer, I don't think Gavin is sentimental like that at all

By encouraging personality I mean empowering players to take hold of the pattern of the game themselves and use their own brains to figure things out rather being slavish to a system

Dublin certainly had systems and defined tactics but I don't think they were ever totally slavish to them

Whereas I think Guardiola's teams tend to be

But then there's also the thing where Guardiola pulls a ridiculous unrehearsed tactical plan out of the bag in a knockout game and it confuses his players

Gavin never did that
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Captain Obvious on September 30, 2020, 01:30:51 AM

Jim Gavin never discouraged personality in his players, he encouraged it

There were huge personalities in that Dublin team - Connolly, McCaffrey, McManaman, Brogan, Cooper, McMahon, Cluxton - Gavin was not afraid to bring back Connolly last year, it took balls to do that


Off the pitch and in the dressing room I have no doubt many had big personalities however the very definition of roboticism on the field was seen in McManaman,Brogan,Cooper, McMahon,Cluxton.   Cluxton remained in that mode for speeches/cup presentations.

For neutrals McCaffrey is probably Dublins most likeable player because he doesn't seem to take himself or the sport as serious as his others. Connolly was dropped because he was too much of a maverick for Gavins liking and had discipline issues. It was then smart by Jim to bring Connolly back into the panel.  A diversionary sideshow was in place to take the media's full attention off the 5 in a row campaign and before making his preplanned exit he didn't want to be known as the manager that finished Connollys county career.
Connolly was always a maverick, and definitely still was in the early days of Gavin's tenure - see his performance against Cork in 2013 which was comically bad, everything he tried was totally off the cuff like you'd see him do for Vincent's and it turned to ash

If a player did that under Guardiola they'd be whipped off quicksmart

But Connolly changed after that game, the Kerry game of 2013 was the first time we saw real peak Connolly where his natural flair was properly harnessed within a team framework

Connolly was still an integral part of Gavin's plans until he got suspended, by the time he came back he had missed a lot of football, a whole summer almost

But Gavin still turned to him when he needed him at half-time against Mayo

I don't think Gavin would have brought Connolly back in 2019 had he not believed he had something to offer, I don't think Gavin is sentimental like that at all

By encouraging personality I mean empowering players to take hold of the pattern of the game themselves and use their own brains to figure things out rather being slavish to a system

Dublin certainly had systems and defined tactics but I don't think they were ever totally slavish to them

Whereas I think Guardiola's teams tend to be

But then there's also the thing where Guardiola pulls a ridiculous unrehearsed tactical plan out of the bag in a knockout game and it confuses his players

Gavin never did that

Connollys most off the cuff moment was in the 77th minute of the 2016 All Ireland final. Dublin just needed to play keep ball instead he decided to go for a daft sideline kick. From the resulting kick out Mayo got a point and a replay.

That type of play was hardly encouraged under Gavin.

Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 01:58:55 AM

Jim Gavin never discouraged personality in his players, he encouraged it

There were huge personalities in that Dublin team - Connolly, McCaffrey, McManaman, Brogan, Cooper, McMahon, Cluxton - Gavin was not afraid to bring back Connolly last year, it took balls to do that


Off the pitch and in the dressing room I have no doubt many had big personalities however the very definition of roboticism on the field was seen in McManaman,Brogan,Cooper, McMahon,Cluxton.   Cluxton remained in that mode for speeches/cup presentations.

For neutrals McCaffrey is probably Dublins most likeable player because he doesn't seem to take himself or the sport as serious as his others. Connolly was dropped because he was too much of a maverick for Gavins liking and had discipline issues. It was then smart by Jim to bring Connolly back into the panel.  A diversionary sideshow was in place to take the media's full attention off the 5 in a row campaign and before making his preplanned exit he didn't want to be known as the manager that finished Connollys county career.
Connolly was always a maverick, and definitely still was in the early days of Gavin's tenure - see his performance against Cork in 2013 which was comically bad, everything he tried was totally off the cuff like you'd see him do for Vincent's and it turned to ash

If a player did that under Guardiola they'd be whipped off quicksmart

But Connolly changed after that game, the Kerry game of 2013 was the first time we saw real peak Connolly where his natural flair was properly harnessed within a team framework

Connolly was still an integral part of Gavin's plans until he got suspended, by the time he came back he had missed a lot of football, a whole summer almost

But Gavin still turned to him when he needed him at half-time against Mayo

I don't think Gavin would have brought Connolly back in 2019 had he not believed he had something to offer, I don't think Gavin is sentimental like that at all

By encouraging personality I mean empowering players to take hold of the pattern of the game themselves and use their own brains to figure things out rather being slavish to a system

Dublin certainly had systems and defined tactics but I don't think they were ever totally slavish to them

Whereas I think Guardiola's teams tend to be

But then there's also the thing where Guardiola pulls a ridiculous unrehearsed tactical plan out of the bag in a knockout game and it confuses his players

Gavin never did that

Connollys most off the cuff moment was in the 77th minute of the 2016 All Ireland final. Dublin just needed to play keep ball instead he decided to go for a daft sideline kick. From the resulting kick out Mayo got a point and a replay.

That type of play was hardly encouraged under Gavin.
There probably isn't a manager in the game who would have encouraged that particular piece of play

I wouldn't say it was off the cuff, it was pure confidence that "this is my ball and I'm going for it", others may call it selfishness or gloryhunting

But that's why Dermo was what he was and why he is so loved by Dublin supporters

Joe Brolly broke through one on one in the 70th minute of the 1998 Ulster final with the game level, instead of fisting it over the bar he went for goal and stuck it in

Donegal got one further point

Dara McGarty got through one on one for Sligo against Armagh in 2002 but fisted the equalising point instead of burying it in the net, Sligo lost the replay

Sometimes the percentage play is not the right one

Dublin won the replay in 2016 and Dermo stuck the penalty in the net, I think he's the only Dublin player to put away penalties in big championship matches since 1983

Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Captain Obvious on September 30, 2020, 02:46:41 AM
There probably isn't a manager in the game who would have encouraged that particular piece of play

I wouldn't say it was off the cuff, it was pure confidence that "this is my ball and I'm going for it", others may call it selfishness or gloryhunting

But that's why Dermo was what he was and why he is so loved by Dublin supporters

I'd think the opposite on managers. Risk taking is required in matches from players however leading a match deep into injury time is not a time to take risks.

It was as off the cuff situation as it gets. Gavin wouldn't have been too pleased especially when Connolly grabbed the ball out of Kilkennys hands and pushed him away for such a pop shot.

No such moment was repeated in the 2017 final against Mayo as Dublin played keep ball until the final whistle.

Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Bronco on September 30, 2020, 06:07:31 AM
This is absolute nonsense.


You’re very right Sid.

My angle is more that they were on this other world level in league football that season, and when Liverpool came along and matched them blow for blow, they weren’t bothered initially - but they hadnt the heart needed for a relentless drive the following season.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: J70 on September 30, 2020, 08:03:11 AM
Guardiola is a chequebook manager. He doesn't even compare to Klopp.

I mean this one says it all. Klopp was fairly average in England until......yep, you guessed it, splashed the cash.

Both have been successful in England and in their careers, both are exceptional managers, but lets call a spade a spade.
Lets call a spade a spade. Klopp wasn't fairly average before he "splashed the cash". He got a Liverpool team from Rodgers that were in mid table and got the same team back into the top 4 and to a league cup final.
He then signed Van dijk and got them to a Champions League final. Add Alisson to that and they win it the following year.
Guardiola has spent about a billion quid at man city and about half of that is on defenders. Klopp's net spend at Liverpool is about 1/10 of that of Man City's. So lets call a spade a spade.

This was the Rodgers team that months before had finished 2nd wasn't it?

Klopp has broke two world transfer records whilst in charge (Goalkeeper and Defender) . I don't see what the problem with pointing this out is, especially when you point out Guardiola has spent X amount on defenders, surely you can acknowledge that it's not much different to Klopp really, it would just appear Klopp signings have been more successful in the past few years.

They are both top level managers but let's disregard the propaganda that one team spends and the other doesn't.

The team Rodgers left had finished second 17 months before Klopp came in. And three of it’s most important players were already gone. Liverpool were on their knees by that stage, with Rodgers not knowing WTF to do with Firmino, and Benteke hopelessly ill-matched to the team’s strengths. Throw in Danny Ings going down with a cruciate in Klopp’s first week, and what Klopp took over was very mediocre.

It is not propaganda to talk about what the two managers spend. Yes, Klopp had to spend big on two players to give the team the final leg up, but he also bought extremely well and molded what he inherited and relatively modest purchases into what became a world class team. You didn’t see Pep having to rely on the likes of Ragnar Klavans or Simon Mignolets for significant portions of his reign.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 30, 2020, 09:07:41 AM
That's my point in calling a spade a spade here. Both managers have spent money to "buy success". Every manager spends money.

The crux is people consider Klopp a greater manager than Guardiola is due to him spending less for his success then. Which is fair enough, I can see that argument but I wasn't having this Klopp hasn't spent anything line when you can reel off two world transfer fees for two positions ones at him.

For me Klopp has been the greater manager in England, he's the greater manager right now. But Guardiola has had a much better career. That era at Barca when his team basically changed football, we haven't seen a period like that since, hence why I find it strange that he's being consigned to history here.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: lurganblue on September 30, 2020, 11:20:47 AM
Very happy with the Ross Barkley loan deal.  He obviously feels he isn't going to get a crack at it with Chelsea.  With big spending comes big pressure for Frank.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Maroon Manc on September 30, 2020, 11:31:50 AM
Liverpool exceptionally well run which has allowed to buy a few players for huge money but Klopp has a record in the transfer market which we haven't seen since Fergie & Wenger in his prime.

Liverpools ability to achieve excellent transfer fees for players not good enough for them is the reason why Klopp has been backed so well when required.

It was going to take something special for Liverpool to win a title in an era when United/City/Chelsea had so much money. 

Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 30, 2020, 11:33:55 AM
Very happy with the Ross Barkley loan deal.  He obviously feels he isn't going to get a crack at it with Chelsea.  With big spending comes big pressure for Frank.

Just for the minute, wait to Sancho moves to United....it'll be Operation Target Solskjear in the media thereafter.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: shark on September 30, 2020, 12:14:38 PM
Very happy with the Ross Barkley loan deal.  He obviously feels he isn't going to get a crack at it with Chelsea.  With big spending comes big pressure for Frank.

Villa well covered across the park now, with the exception of left back. A target of 50 points is very realistic.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Geoff Tipps on September 30, 2020, 12:40:27 PM
That's my point in calling a spade a spade here. Both managers have spent money to "buy success". Every manager spends money.

The crux is people consider Klopp a greater manager than Guardiola is due to him spending less for his success then. Which is fair enough, I can see that argument but I wasn't having this Klopp hasn't spent anything line when you can reel off two world transfer fees for two positions ones at him.

For me Klopp has been the greater manager in England, he's the greater manager right now. But Guardiola has had a much better career. That era at Barca when his team basically changed football, we haven't seen a period like that since, hence why I find it strange that he's being consigned to history here.

https://www.football365.com/news/feature-man-city-spend-on-defenders-pep-guardiola-428m-man-utd-liverpool-arsenal-spurs-chelsea

When you look at figures like these you appreciate how good Klopp is.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: johnnycool on September 30, 2020, 01:22:54 PM
Chelsea have fairly opened the purse;

CHELSEA
INS:
Hakim Ziyech (£36m, Ajax),
Timo Werner (£47.7m, Leipzig),
Xavier Mbuyumba (free, Barcelona),
Ben Chilwell (£45m, Leicester),
Malang Sarr (free, Nice),
Thiago Silva (free, PSG),
Kai Havertz (£71m, Bayer Leverkusen),
Edouard Mendy (£22m, Rennes).

Over £200M of Romans hard earned sponduloks. Frank better get his hands on some silverware and/or get a top 4 finish.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: imtommygunn on September 30, 2020, 01:32:17 PM
I don't understand how he can't at least bring someone in to teach them how to defend set pieces. If he doesn't sort this out then any well drilled team have every chance of beating Chelsea and they'll go nowhere. At the minute I suspect they could well be going nowhere. I don't like Chelsea but I do like Lampard so hope he scrapes top 4 lol.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: shark on September 30, 2020, 02:55:21 PM
Chelsea have fairly opened the purse;

CHELSEA
INS:
Hakim Ziyech (£36m, Ajax),
Timo Werner (£47.7m, Leipzig),
Xavier Mbuyumba (free, Barcelona),
Ben Chilwell (£45m, Leicester),
Malang Sarr (free, Nice),
Thiago Silva (free, PSG),
Kai Havertz (£71m, Bayer Leverkusen),
Edouard Mendy (£22m, Rennes).

Over £200M of Romans hard earned sponduloks. Frank better get his hands on some silverware and/or get a top 4 finish.

Chilwell is very good. But then you see that Leicester took that £45m and used 'just' £18m of it to buy Castagne to replace Chilwell. Castagne, albeit on a small sample size of Premier League games, has looked brilliant.

Also, "hard earned"  ;D. Yeltsin's loans for shares scheme wasn't exactly hard work for those who benefited!
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: square_ball on September 30, 2020, 03:11:28 PM
Going by Leicester fans on Twitter and radio they weren’t too bothered about losing Chilwell to Chelsea and delighted to get as much for him. Or Decent enough player but he’s a definite upgrade defensively than Alonso.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Armamike on September 30, 2020, 04:26:12 PM
Chelsea have fairly opened the purse;

CHELSEA
INS:
Hakim Ziyech (£36m, Ajax),
Timo Werner (£47.7m, Leipzig),
Xavier Mbuyumba (free, Barcelona),
Ben Chilwell (£45m, Leicester),
Malang Sarr (free, Nice),
Thiago Silva (free, PSG),
Kai Havertz (£71m, Bayer Leverkusen),
Edouard Mendy (£22m, Rennes).

Over £200M of Romans hard earned sponduloks. Frank better get his hands on some silverware and/or get a top 4 finish.

All very well bringing in new players but they still have a rookie manager in charge.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Captain Obvious on September 30, 2020, 04:41:06 PM
Chelsea have fairly opened the purse;

CHELSEA
INS:
Hakim Ziyech (£36m, Ajax),
Timo Werner (£47.7m, Leipzig),
Xavier Mbuyumba (free, Barcelona),
Ben Chilwell (£45m, Leicester),
Malang Sarr (free, Nice),
Thiago Silva (free, PSG),
Kai Havertz (£71m, Bayer Leverkusen),
Edouard Mendy (£22m, Rennes).

Over £200M of Romans hard earned sponduloks. Frank better get his hands on some silverware and/or get a top 4 finish.

All very well bringing in new players but they still have a rookie manager in charge.

Depends on the quality of the manager. Zidane was rookie when he took on the Real Madrid job in 2016.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 04:53:49 PM
Chelsea have fairly opened the purse;

CHELSEA
INS:
Hakim Ziyech (£36m, Ajax),
Timo Werner (£47.7m, Leipzig),
Xavier Mbuyumba (free, Barcelona),
Ben Chilwell (£45m, Leicester),
Malang Sarr (free, Nice),
Thiago Silva (free, PSG),
Kai Havertz (£71m, Bayer Leverkusen),
Edouard Mendy (£22m, Rennes).

Over £200M of Romans hard earned sponduloks. Frank better get his hands on some silverware and/or get a top 4 finish.

All very well bringing in new players but they still have a rookie manager in charge.

Depends on the quality of the manager. Zidane was rookie when he took on the Real Madrid job in 2016.

Zidane is a bizarre case

I don't believe he would do well in any other managerial job other than Real Madrid or perhaps the French national team

His major asset as a manager is that he is Zinedine Zidane and that he has a chilled out personality

That makes him ideal for being a faciliatator for a team made up of some of the world's best players

The mere fact of him being Zinedine Zidane carries immense authority, he was the ideal person to handle the ego of Cristiano Ronaldo, because Ronaldo respected him

Juventus are betting on Pirlo being another Zidane, coincidentally Ronaldo is at Juventus now
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 30, 2020, 09:59:47 PM
Zidane wasn’t that much of a chilled out character when he head butted thon Italian dude!

Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 10:03:40 PM
Zidane wasn’t that much of a chilled out character when he head butted thon Italian dude!
He's Zen-edine Zidane now
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2020, 07:26:33 PM
Leeds deserved that draw and could have won. Manchester City going on this form won't be mounting a title challenge.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: RedHand88 on October 03, 2020, 07:39:30 PM
All Merseyside title race the year so.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Tony Baloney on October 03, 2020, 08:48:27 PM
All Merseyside title race the year so.
Pickford will prove to be their Karius. The natural order of things will be returned by Christmas.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: RedHand88 on October 04, 2020, 07:56:50 AM
All Merseyside title race the year so.
Pickford will prove to be their Karius. The natural order of things will be returned by Christmas.

Fair point. The man must have naked photos of Southgate.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Minus15 on October 04, 2020, 10:31:28 AM
Frank Lampard's signings are Football Manager esque transfer business. Gossip column purchases under a manager who has so far not portrayed any capability as a manager in the Prem League. Media like him because he is English and his achievements as a player but that will soon fade. He has severe limitations and already his interviews are littered with excuses and 'appeal for time' style statements. He and Solksjaer are poor managers at this level and their teams do not play with any noticeable identity.

Compare this with what Arteta has done at Arsenal already in his short time there. There is a bit more going on in his brain with a vision and a plan of how to improve his players and his team.

Top 4 this season for me:
Liverpool
City
Arsenal
Leicester
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Bronco on October 04, 2020, 11:13:44 AM
Arteta has done very little at Arsenal. Alienated their only decent creative player, repeatedly played Aubameyang out of position, and persisted with Luiz and Xhaka despite awful performances.

He shouldn't have got the job in the first place and has done nothing to justify his appointment.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Captain Obvious on October 04, 2020, 03:16:17 PM
Leicester 5-2 away winners against Manchester City last week and today lose 3-0 at home to West Ham.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: dublin7 on October 04, 2020, 03:43:26 PM
Arteta has done very little at Arsenal. Alienated their only decent creative player, repeatedly played Aubameyang out of position, and persisted with Luiz and Xhaka despite awful performances.

He shouldn't have got the job in the first place and has done nothing to justify his appointment.

Arteta has got them to some sort of defenseive competence with the players available to him and has put a bit of solidity in the team. They may have lost 3-1 to Liverpool last Monday, but they would have collapsed and lost by 5 or 6 if that was an Arsenal side in the last years of Wenger or Emery. Arteta's problem is he hasn't got the players to bring them on. Top 4 is a something to aim for this season.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Bronco on October 04, 2020, 03:53:21 PM
Defensive competence - are you joking? They've conceded in something like 8 out of their last 9 League games.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2020, 04:25:03 PM
Pretty dominant display from Arsenal, should improve on last year’s position
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: laoislad on October 04, 2020, 05:02:48 PM
Some top notch defending from Man United so far. Even their customary penalty not helping them today...
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: dublin7 on October 04, 2020, 06:44:49 PM
Defensive competence - are you joking? They've conceded in something like 8 out of their last 9 League games.

It's a new season  and even though it's only 4 games in they are clearly going in the right direction. They have a clear system of play that may be limited, but that's more to do with the quality of players he has available to pick from.

Compare that to the shambles at Man Utd right now, who are trying to sign a right winger even though they haven't got a decent centre half at the club and no clear game plan going forward against defensive teams.  Arsenal will probably finish above Utd this season based on the current situation
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 04, 2020, 06:50:13 PM
Frank Lampard's signings are Football Manager esque transfer business. Gossip column purchases under a manager who has so far not portrayed any capability as a manager in the Prem League. Media like him because he is English and his achievements as a player but that will soon fade. He has severe limitations and already his interviews are littered with excuses and 'appeal for time' style statements. He and Solksjaer are poor managers at this level and their teams do not play with any noticeable identity.

Compare this with what Arteta has done at Arsenal already in his short time there. There is a bit more going on in his brain with a vision and a plan of how to improve his players and his team.

Top 4 this season for me:
Liverpool
City
Arsenal
Leicester

What Lampard did at Chelsea last year deserves great credit, a 4th place finish when some had speculated as low as 10th. He's only in his 3rd full season of management. Unfair to compare him to Ole, who has been a manager for many years at this stage.

If Lampard doesn't improve on 4th this year, he'll be sacked, he knows that. That's how Chelsea operate.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: mrdeeds on October 04, 2020, 06:53:32 PM
Frank Lampard's signings are Football Manager esque transfer business. Gossip column purchases under a manager who has so far not portrayed any capability as a manager in the Prem League. Media like him because he is English and his achievements as a player but that will soon fade. He has severe limitations and already his interviews are littered with excuses and 'appeal for time' style statements. He and Solksjaer are poor managers at this level and their teams do not play with any noticeable identity.

Compare this with what Arteta has done at Arsenal already in his short time there. There is a bit more going on in his brain with a vision and a plan of how to improve his players and his team.

Top 4 this season for me:
Liverpool
City
Arsenal
Leicester

What Lampard did at Chelsea last year deserves great credit, a 4th place finish when some had speculated as low as 10th. He's only in his 3rd full season of management. Unfair to compare him to Ole, who has been a manager for many years at this stage.

If Lampard doesn't improve on 4th this year, he'll be sacked, he knows that. That's how Chelsea operate.

He brought Chelsea from 3rd to 4th and won nothing unlike his predecessor. And yet he's lauded.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: sid waddell on October 04, 2020, 07:08:28 PM
Everton, who were a joke not long ago, are now top of the league under Carlo Ancelotti

If people can't see the difference good managers make by now...

Lamps hasn't a clue and is also a self absorbed twat

Arteta has Arsenal going very much in the right direction, FA Cup winners already under him and have beaten all the top teams, you can see he definitely has something about him


Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: RedHand88 on October 04, 2020, 07:11:49 PM
Everton, who were a joke not long ago, are now top of the league under Carlo Ancelotti

If people can't see the difference good managers make by now...

Lamps hasn't a clue and is also a self absorbed twat

Arteta has Arsenal going very much in the right direction, FA Cup winners already under him and have beaten all the top teams, you can see he definitely has something about him

Top of the league after 4 games is completely irrelevant.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: sid waddell on October 04, 2020, 07:14:46 PM
Everton, who were a joke not long ago, are now top of the league under Carlo Ancelotti

If people can't see the difference good managers make by now...

Lamps hasn't a clue and is also a self absorbed twat

Arteta has Arsenal going very much in the right direction, FA Cup winners already under him and have beaten all the top teams, you can see he definitely has something about him

Top of the league after 4 games is completely irrelevant.
Irrelevant to what?

You said tonight was a huge chance for Liverpool to go five points ahead of Manchester City

But this is only Liverpool's fourth game

So by what you say, it's irrelevant

But it isn't irrelevant


Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 04, 2020, 07:17:37 PM
Jurgen Klopp is widely regarded as the best manager in the world right now.

I wonder if people called him clueless in those first ten years of his career when he won nothing at Mainz?

Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: sid waddell on October 04, 2020, 07:19:29 PM
Jurgen Klopp is widely regarded as the best manager in the world right now.

I wonder if people called him clueless in those first ten years of his career when he won nothing at Mainz?
Comparing Lampard to Klopp as you're doing is fairly clueless
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: sid waddell on October 04, 2020, 07:24:28 PM
Liverpool 1-0 down at Villa Park

Adrian with a Kepa-like mistake

He'll be Villafied for that at half time

Looks like an Everton-Villa title race
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 04, 2020, 07:25:26 PM
No comparison made.

Just making the point it's very early in the day, management wise to be writing people off, considering.

Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: glens73 on October 04, 2020, 07:27:35 PM
Jurgen Klopp is widely regarded as the best manager in the world right now.

I wonder if people called him clueless in those first ten years of his career when he won nothing at Mainz?

Mainz are a relatively small club, not one with bottomless pockets of illicitly obtained money like Chelski have. Klopp is very well thought of from his time at Mainz, and got them promoted to the Bundesliga for the first time ever.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Captain Obvious on October 04, 2020, 07:34:41 PM
Frank Lampard's signings are Football Manager esque transfer business. Gossip column purchases under a manager who has so far not portrayed any capability as a manager in the Prem League. Media like him because he is English and his achievements as a player but that will soon fade. He has severe limitations and already his interviews are littered with excuses and 'appeal for time' style statements. He and Solksjaer are poor managers at this level and their teams do not play with any noticeable identity.

Compare this with what Arteta has done at Arsenal already in his short time there. There is a bit more going on in his brain with a vision and a plan of how to improve his players and his team.

Top 4 this season for me:
Liverpool
City
Arsenal
Leicester

What Lampard did at Chelsea last year deserves great credit, a 4th place finish when some had speculated as low as 10th. He's only in his 3rd full season of management. Unfair to compare him to Ole, who has been a manager for many years at this stage.

If Lampard doesn't improve on 4th this year, he'll be sacked, he knows that. That's how Chelsea operate.

Name and shame those idiots. The lowest Chelsea was ever to finish last season was 5th. A manager in charge of a top 5 team finishing 4th in a poor quality league deserved very little credit.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: sid waddell on October 04, 2020, 07:35:45 PM
No comparison made.

Just making the point it's very early in the day, management wise to be writing people off, considering.
No comparison apart from the comparison

Lampard is in his second season, you don't get to hang around these days

He got lucky because a load of other clubs were poor last season and limped into the top four with a poor points tally

The league has a lot more depth this season and several teams have got their act together, of the clubs who would be expected to be around Chelsea's level, only Manchester United are currently a shambles

Lampard is a conceited twat and hasn't a clue how to organise a defence, he has a friendly tabloid press behind him and that colours a lot of people's views of him, it's not difficult to see whether a manager has it or doesn't, he doesn't

Chelsea have a squad which should be comfortably top 3 if not top 2 and that's how they should be judged

But they haven't a notion of challenging for the title



Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: laoislad on October 04, 2020, 08:51:23 PM
Should just null and void the league..
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: imtommygunn on October 04, 2020, 08:56:44 PM
I think lampard is ok. Dunno why there is so much disdain for him. Granted he can’t organise a defense and probably won’t last at Chelsea but I think “conceited twat” is probably a bit harsh...

Liverpool and united both getting tanked. A good weekend.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 05, 2020, 09:08:16 AM
I think lampard is ok. Dunno why there is so much disdain for him. Granted he can’t organise a defense and probably won’t last at Chelsea but I think “conceited twat” is probably a bit harsh...

Liverpool and united both getting tanked. A good weekend.

Fairly ok manager had a decent season last year in tough circumstances playing attacking football playing lots of youth (not by choice). Can he prove himself? Chelsea is probably not the best place but they are giving him what he wants.

Personal attacks on him are strange, a hangover from playing days presumably.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: lurganblue on October 05, 2020, 10:00:29 AM
Wow! Stunned by that Villa result.  Before the game I had a small hope for a draw with the Liverpool absentees.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 05, 2020, 10:01:22 AM
Magnificent stuff from Villa. From last year looking very ropey....they should be fine this year.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Captain Obvious on October 05, 2020, 10:20:04 AM
I think lampard is ok. Dunno why there is so much disdain for him. Granted he can’t organise a defense and probably won’t last at Chelsea but I think “conceited twat” is probably a bit harsh...

Liverpool and united both getting tanked. A good weekend.

Liverpool and Manchester United were at sixes and sevens at the weekend.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: johnnycool on October 05, 2020, 10:43:51 AM
I think lampard is ok. Dunno why there is so much disdain for him. Granted he can’t organise a defense and probably won’t last at Chelsea but I think “conceited twat” is probably a bit harsh...

Liverpool and united both getting tanked. A good weekend.

Liverpool and Manchester United were at sixes and sevens at the weekend.

Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: ziggy90 on October 05, 2020, 11:05:09 AM
Wow! Stunned by that Villa result.  Before the game I had a small hope for a draw with the Liverpool absentees.

Not half as much as the Blue side of Brum.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: caprea on October 05, 2020, 11:08:01 AM
Spurs have a shot this season. Bale, Son and Kane is fearsome if they stay fit.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Dar31 on October 05, 2020, 08:07:11 PM
Spurs have a shot this season. Bale, Son and Kane is fearsome if they stay fit.


I agree and im a united fan there the ideal mourinho team older nucleus of pros who have a point to prove and are desperate to win something and will literally do whatever mourinho says to win
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on October 05, 2020, 08:11:55 PM
They looked good yesterday. They were very poor against Everton and Newcastle.  May have a cup win in them, but can't see them with a real shot in the league.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Dar31 on October 05, 2020, 08:35:11 PM
They looked good yesterday. They were very poor against Everton and Newcastle.  May have a cup win in them, but can't see them with a real shot in the league.

And mourinho loves the cup competition he would take a cup final win in any of them
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Hound on October 09, 2020, 03:24:36 PM
So every game in October that is not already assigned for live coverage on the usual Sky Sports, BT channels will be shown live on PPV. STG 14.95 per game is the reported price! (Although I wonder is the fact the price has been leaked rather than announced mean it’s a tactic and they’ll reduce it a bit to make it seem less exhorbitant)

No way i’d Pay even 10 euro a game on top of my existing Sky Sports sub.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Boycey on October 11, 2020, 09:22:05 PM
Liverpool in the vanguard of a power grab by "The big six" Premier League clubs. United obviously up to their necks in it too.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/10/11/world-exclusive-man-utd-liverpool-driving-project-big-picture/

Quote
The proposals include:

£250 million immediately to the EFL to compensate its clubs for lost matchday revenue, deducted from future television revenue earnings and financed by a loan taken out by the Premier League

Special status for the nine longest serving clubs – and the vote of only six of those “long-term shareholders” required to make major changes, including amending rules and regulations, agreeing contracts, removal of the chief executive, and a wide-ranging veto including on club ownership

Premier League to go to 18 clubs from 20

£100 million one-off gift to the FA to cover its coronavirus losses, the non-league game, the women’s game, the grassroots

8.5 per cent of annual net Premier League revenue to go on operating costs and “good causes” including the FA

From the remainder, 25 per cent of all combined Premier League and Football League revenues to go to the EFL clubs

Six per cent of Premier League gross revenues to pay for stadium improvements across the top four divisions, calculated at £100 per seat

New rules for the distribution of Premier League television income, overseas and domestic, including proposals that base one portion on performance over three years in the league

The abolition of the League Cup and the Community Shield

24 clubs each in the Championship, League One and League Two reducing the professional game overall from 92 clubs to 90

A women's professional league independent of the Premier League or the FA

Two sides automatically relegated from the Premier League every season and the top two Championship teams promoted. The 16th place Premier League club in a play-off tournament with the Championship’s third, fourth and fifth placed teams.

Financial fair play regulations in line with Uefa, and full access for Premier League executive to club accounts

A fan charter including capping of away tickets at £20, away travel subsidised, a focus on a return to safe standing, a minimum away allocation of eight per cent capacity

Later Premier League start in August to give greater scope for pre-season friendlies, and requirement for all clubs to compete once every five years in a summer Premier League tournament

Huge changes to loan system allowing clubs to have 15 players out on loan domestically at any one time and up to four at a single club in England
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: lurganblue on October 12, 2020, 09:26:07 AM
"Special status for the nine longest serving clubs"... I believe that is from consecutive seasons in the PL and not total amount of time in the PL. City are tenth in total games played in PL with Newcastle and Villa ahead of them.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: TabClear on October 12, 2020, 09:52:18 AM
Liverpool in the vanguard of a power grab by "The big six" Premier League clubs. United obviously up to their necks in it too.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/10/11/world-exclusive-man-utd-liverpool-driving-project-big-picture/

Quote
The proposals include:

£250 million immediately to the EFL to compensate its clubs for lost matchday revenue, deducted from future television revenue earnings and financed by a loan taken out by the Premier League

Special status for the nine longest serving clubs – and the vote of only six of those “long-term shareholders” required to make major changes, including amending rules and regulations, agreeing contracts, removal of the chief executive, and a wide-ranging veto including on club ownership

Premier League to go to 18 clubs from 20

£100 million one-off gift to the FA to cover its coronavirus losses, the non-league game, the women’s game, the grassroots

8.5 per cent of annual net Premier League revenue to go on operating costs and “good causes” including the FA

From the remainder, 25 per cent of all combined Premier League and Football League revenues to go to the EFL clubs

Six per cent of Premier League gross revenues to pay for stadium improvements across the top four divisions, calculated at £100 per seat

New rules for the distribution of Premier League television income, overseas and domestic, including proposals that base one portion on performance over three years in the league

The abolition of the League Cup and the Community Shield

24 clubs each in the Championship, League One and League Two reducing the professional game overall from 92 clubs to 90

A women's professional league independent of the Premier League or the FA

Two sides automatically relegated from the Premier League every season and the top two Championship teams promoted. The 16th place Premier League club in a play-off tournament with the Championship’s third, fourth and fifth placed teams.

Financial fair play regulations in line with Uefa, and full access for Premier League executive to club accounts

A fan charter including capping of away tickets at £20, away travel subsidised, a focus on a return to safe standing, a minimum away allocation of eight per cent capacity

Later Premier League start in August to give greater scope for pre-season friendlies, and requirement for all clubs to compete once every five years in a summer Premier League tournament

Huge changes to loan system allowing clubs to have 15 players out on loan domestically at any one time and up to four at a single club in England

Its an absolute powergrab. Its not mentioned there but i think the Big six can effectively force anything through if the charter was agreed as they have increased voting power.

Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: shark on October 12, 2020, 01:31:45 PM
The clubs driving this are terrified of another Man City. Their entire model is predicated on being in the champions league season after season. The line about being able to vote on takeovers of other clubs is alarming. I can’t see 14 clubs agreeing to anything like this.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: seafoid on October 12, 2020, 04:18:51 PM
Liverpool in the vanguard of a power grab by "The big six" Premier League clubs. United obviously up to their necks in it too.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/10/11/world-exclusive-man-utd-liverpool-driving-project-big-picture/

Quote
The proposals include:

£250 million immediately to the EFL to compensate its clubs for lost matchday revenue, deducted from future television revenue earnings and financed by a loan taken out by the Premier League

Special status for the nine longest serving clubs – and the vote of only six of those “long-term shareholders” required to make major changes, including amending rules and regulations, agreeing contracts, removal of the chief executive, and a wide-ranging veto including on club ownership

Premier League to go to 18 clubs from 20

£100 million one-off gift to the FA to cover its coronavirus losses, the non-league game, the women’s game, the grassroots

8.5 per cent of annual net Premier League revenue to go on operating costs and “good causes” including the FA

From the remainder, 25 per cent of all combined Premier League and Football League revenues to go to the EFL clubs

Six per cent of Premier League gross revenues to pay for stadium improvements across the top four divisions, calculated at £100 per seat

New rules for the distribution of Premier League television income, overseas and domestic, including proposals that base one portion on performance over three years in the league

The abolition of the League Cup and the Community Shield

24 clubs each in the Championship, League One and League Two reducing the professional game overall from 92 clubs to 90

A women's professional league independent of the Premier League or the FA

Two sides automatically relegated from the Premier League every season and the top two Championship teams promoted. The 16th place Premier League club in a play-off tournament with the Championship’s third, fourth and fifth placed teams.

Financial fair play regulations in line with Uefa, and full access for Premier League executive to club accounts

A fan charter including capping of away tickets at £20, away travel subsidised, a focus on a return to safe standing, a minimum away allocation of eight per cent capacity

Later Premier League start in August to give greater scope for pre-season friendlies, and requirement for all clubs to compete once every five years in a summer Premier League tournament

Huge changes to loan system allowing clubs to have 15 players out on loan domestically at any one time and up to four at a single club in England
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/10/12/project-big-picture-inside-story-liverpool-man-utd-efl-plan/
Thirty years on and attempts to re-mould that same Premier League – now the most powerful, and the most lucrative, sport league in the world – has echoes of the way in which it was created. The Premier League’s executive and all but its two most famous clubs, Manchester United and Liverpool in conjunction with the EFL chairman Rick Parry, have been bypassed.
But for Parry this is a scheme 25 years in the making. Three years after the Premier League began, in 1995, the Football League board spurned a second opportunity, backed by all bar one of its clubs, to share in the riches of its much more profitable sibling when, as Premier League chief executive, Parry offered to take over the negotiations for the Football League’s television rights and give a percentage of their combined income in return. 
When, in 1995, the proposal was put to the 72 Football League clubs, 71 voted in favour of throwing their lot in with the Premier League. But the Football League board rejected it and insisted on negotiating alone.
Now the same offer forms part of these proposals. The EFL clubs themselves were mostly unaware of the strategy being pursued – many of them finding out when The Telegraph revealed the plans at lunchtime on Sunday. Before then Parry says that he has, at different times, alluded to the plan he had in mind, arguing that systemic problems mean clubs are not able to respond properly to the Covid crisis.
Indeed, talks have been ongoing for three years involving some of the most powerful owners in the Premier League. Among them was the American billionaire John W Henry, Liverpool’s principal owner and a key figure in what would become “Project Big Picture” and later the “Revitalisation” document.
So too Mike Gordon, another in Liverpool’s Fenway Sports Group, and one of those credited with the club’s recent transformation into European and then English champions. Parry was also speaking to Joel Glazer who has overseen a rather less successful ownership of Manchester United since his late father, Malcolm, bought the club in 2005.
Why did those billionaire investors, who control the most powerful clubs in the English game, choose Parry to help them restructure the sport? Among other things, he is regarded as a man who – as his interview The Telegraph reveals – is prepared to say the things that other figures in the game may believe privately but fear to utter. With Parry in charge of the EFL, United and Liverpool also believe that he can deliver consensus from his 72 very different members.
But this is a major gamble. Over the course of the three years, Parry worked in secret with the two biggest Premier League clubs to come up with a plan. He cares less about the power it will give the wealthiest clubs and more about the 25 per cent annually of Premier League revenue that will flow to his impecunious members. Others may be more conflicted but Parry regards this is an unprecedented concession and he is not afraid to say so. In the meantime he has secured agreements from his members for salary caps which he says will be an end to the ruinous spending of years gone by.
Show more
For United and Liverpool, the pay-off is not a greater share of the revenue from the Premier League’s television deal – they are insistent that will not happen. Instead those two clubs say they want the power, along with the other members of the elite to shape the rules of the league and also to have more matchdays to compete in a potentially expanded Champions League. Those who oppose them are much more dubious that it will not deliver a greater share.
The authors of “Revitalisation” are on their 17th draft already. Optimistically they want to see it in place for the 2022-2023 season. On the question of how the Premier League would come down from 20 clubs to 18, there is no firm proposal yet. The league’s original reduction from 22 clubs to 20 took three years because the Football League was not ready to accommodate the extra clubs until 1995-96.
Parry has shared his plans with just a few close confidants, including the Stoke chairman, John Coates, and his Middlesbrough counterpart, Steve Gibson. “They are 100 per cent supportive because it is for the greater good,” Parry said. “Those two are genuinely up for it. They are excited, and passionate about it. In a time when everyone is panicking how we will emerge from it you need a long-term vision and you need hope.” 
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: seafoid on October 12, 2020, 04:40:35 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/10/12/premier-league-warned-football-faces-government-review-efl-rescue/

The UK Government is now threatening to launch an immediate review of football regulation if the Premier League cannot agree a rescue package with the English Football League "within the existing measures".

“It’s clear that this proposal does not command support throughout the Premier League - it is exactly this type of backroom dealing that undermines trust in football governance," Downing Street said.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on October 12, 2020, 06:24:42 PM
Can't be all bad if the tories are coming out against it.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: seafoid on October 13, 2020, 08:42:24 AM


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/10/12/americanisation-english-football-project-big-picture-money-control/

It was also telling that Henry drew a comparison with America when he talked about having “closed leagues” and how it was OK to share the cash around more evenly when there was no jeopardy. “It’s much more difficult to ask independent clubs to subsidise their competitors beyond a certain point when you have relegation and especially the way media is rapidly changing and being consumed today,” Henry argued.
Remember what he said there – he talked about having to “subsidise” other clubs and how media is changing. They are key points in deciding what is really going on with Project Big Picture. It is not a re-distribution of wealth. It is offering, effectively, a “closed league”. It is, finally, the Americanisation of English football which presumably Henry and the Glazer family, who own Manchester United, have long been aiming for given their clubs are the sponsors behind what is cheerily called a “new model of governance”.
From Boston to Palm Beach, it is already a land of closed leagues, and that is what they want for England also, with Henry having never attempted to hide his frustration at the way the finances of football operate in this country.
In principle, he is right. The system does not work and, as has been discussed over the past few months, it needs to change, but the argument that what is being proposed is fairer and is a “new era of sustainability” is utter nonsense. It may be sustainable, there may be some good ideas - but at what price?
Indeed, what no-one in support of the radical overhaul has done - and it has not been addressed by English Football League chairman Rick Parry - is answer the fundamental question: if, as the briefing notes from the EFL claim, it will “revitalise and rejuvenate English football’s pyramid for the long-term by correcting long-standing issues” then why does it follow that for this to happen the control and future of football has to be handed over to the 'Big Six' who would be the decision-makers? It seems, at first glance, that all the documentation does is take that quantum leap without saying specifically why.
Except it does. There is a nugget in there that starts to explain everything and goes back to what Liverpool and United - and presumably Manchester City, Chelsea, Arsenal and Tottenham Hotspur - have all been lobbying for and why Kuala Lumpur was mentioned at the beginning of this column.
It was a former Liverpool executive - not Parry but the man who replaced him at the club, Ian Ayre - who famously broke from the position of collective selling of rights by saying, “if you're in Kuala Lumpur there isn't anyone subscribing to [rights holders] Astro or ESPN to watch Bolton - or if they are, it's a very small number - whereas the large majority are subscribing because they want to watch Liverpool, Manchester United, Chelsea or Arsenal”.
So Project Big Picture talks about bundling the selling of rights together - the Premier League, the EFL, even the FA Cup - for the greater good and, by the way, the forecast of a 10 per cent increase for the next round of negotiations to help fund everything is pretty optimistic in the current economic climate.
But it also says “all Premier League clubs shall have the exclusive rights to sell eight live matches a season directly to fans via their digital platforms in all international territories (ie excluding the UK) ideally one per month”. And it goes on to say that while the Premier League will continue to support the so-called “3pm Saturday blackout” - when matches are not allowed to be shown live in the UK at that time - if that were to change (and I wonder who might want it to?) then clubs will be able to broadcast games “on club consumer channels and digital platforms”.
So there we have it. They want more power because they generate the most income and to help them generate even more income - but only for themselves. If Project Big Picture was to be approved, the dam would burst. It would hasten the end of collective bargaining, it would hasten the end of competition beyond the 'Big Six', it would hasten the end of the Premier League as a competition.
There is yet more. Reducing the league to 18 clubs means there will be only 17 home league games for income, from gate receipts as well as broadcast, for most of the clubs - while the Big Six will expect to play in Europe where the plan is to increase the number of fixtures.
So while Liverpool and United insist they will not gain a greater share of the Premier League’s broadcast deals, that misses the point. They will be able to cut their own deals.
The architects of the plan say there is no intention to do away with relegation and while, even under the current arrangements, no-one would expect Liverpool to go down, the changes would mean there is almost zero chance of them finishing outside the top six.
That would become a ‘closed league’ within a league and who is to say that the clubs would not simply, over time, vote for more and more for themselves? Ah, the argument goes, that can be vetoed by the Football Association with its so-called ‘golden share’ - but what would that mean in reality? The FA may well owe the Premier League far too much.
On Thursday, Henry celebrates the 10th anniversary of acquiring Liverpool and he and Fenway Sports Group have done so much good for the club, where debts were mounting and the fans had lined the streets around Anfield in protest. Certainly FSG is far more popular than the Glazers at United. But both are wrong with this plan, while the suspicion that American owners moving into football was always going to lead to something like this happening is beginning to prove true.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:15:35 PM
I checked Spirit of Shankly's page on this. They're usually pretty good at holding the club's feet to the fire.

They say they're still waiting to hear from them.

https://spiritofshankly.com/ppv-project-big-picture/ (https://spiritofshankly.com/ppv-project-big-picture/)

Over the past weekend, the Project Big Picture document leak and Pay-Per-View announcement (a disgraceful £14.95 per match) have again demonstrated, with zero formal engagement, a complete disregard for fans.

The hedge funds and billionaire owners of our football clubs need to understand they are merely custodians.

The actions of the club owners and TV broadcasters once more highlight the need for a supporter-led review of football governance.

So far, Liverpool Football Club have remained silent on both of these issues and Spirit of Shankly have written asking them to explain their position.

We will provide further updates in the coming days once we have had a response from LFC and the chance to digest further the details of these proposals.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Boycey on October 13, 2020, 12:46:57 PM
No disrespect to the Spirit of Shankly group but this is end game for the owners they won't give a shiny shite what SOS think. Liverpool and United are the two that have stuck there heads above parapet at present but I'd be astonished if the other 'big clubs' aren't up to their necks in this too....

Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:55:38 PM
No disrespect to the Spirit of Shankly group but this is end game for the owners they won't give a shiny shite what SOS think. Liverpool and United are the two that have stuck there heads above parapet at present but I'd be astonished if the other 'big clubs' aren't up to their necks in this too....

Yes, they've backed the club down over relatively minor matters (in comparison to this) before, but this is a whole other level.

Apparently its been a Henry/Glazer/Parry-driven proposal, with Henry the primary mover. Other top six clubs only became recently aware, but I'm sure they'll be happy enough with it. From what I've read, most clubs outside the bottom ten of the Premier League will likely be happy with it. The bottom ten will lose two EPL places, two homes games, four games altogether, and will be stuck with eight games a year to sell internationally, although on the latter, they might be all right if said games are against the top six (I've no idea how that bit is going to work).
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: shark on October 13, 2020, 01:54:58 PM
No disrespect to the Spirit of Shankly group but this is end game for the owners they won't give a shiny shite what SOS think. Liverpool and United are the two that have stuck there heads above parapet at present but I'd be astonished if the other 'big clubs' aren't up to their necks in this too....

Yes, they've backed the club down over relatively minor matters (in comparison to this) before, but this is a whole other level.

Apparently its been a Henry/Glazer/Parry-driven proposal, with Henry the primary mover. Other top six clubs only became recently aware, but I'm sure they'll be happy enough with it. From what I've read, most clubs outside the bottom ten of the Premier League will likely be happy with it. The bottom ten will lose two EPL places, two homes games, four games altogether, and will be stuck with eight games a year to sell internationally, although on the latter, they might be all right if said games are against the top six (I've no idea how that bit is going to work).

Bottom line is they can’t change anything without 14 of the 20 premier league clubs backing it. 6 clubs pulling up the ladder is unlikely to appeal to the likes of Newcastle, Leeds, Villa, Leicester, Wolves, etc. West Ham have already come out against it very strongly.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Boycey on October 13, 2020, 04:08:49 PM
No disrespect to the Spirit of Shankly group but this is end game for the owners they won't give a shiny shite what SOS think. Liverpool and United are the two that have stuck there heads above parapet at present but I'd be astonished if the other 'big clubs' aren't up to their necks in this too....

Yes, they've backed the club down over relatively minor matters (in comparison to this) before, but this is a whole other level.

Apparently its been a Henry/Glazer/Parry-driven proposal, with Henry the primary mover. Other top six clubs only became recently aware, but I'm sure they'll be happy enough with it. From what I've read, most clubs outside the bottom ten of the Premier League will likely be happy with it. The bottom ten will lose two EPL places, two homes games, four games altogether, and will be stuck with eight games a year to sell internationally, although on the latter, they might be all right if said games are against the top six (I've no idea how that bit is going to work).

Bottom line is they can’t change anything without 14 of the 20 premier league clubs backing it. 6 clubs pulling up the ladder is unlikely to appeal to the likes of Newcastle, Leeds, Villa, Leicester, Wolves, etc. West Ham have already come out against it very strongly.

I'm sure its occurred to Henry, Glazer and whoever the current voting requirements and they must be confident they can work around them...
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: shark on October 13, 2020, 05:40:02 PM
No disrespect to the Spirit of Shankly group but this is end game for the owners they won't give a shiny shite what SOS think. Liverpool and United are the two that have stuck there heads above parapet at present but I'd be astonished if the other 'big clubs' aren't up to their necks in this too....

Yes, they've backed the club down over relatively minor matters (in comparison to this) before, but this is a whole other level.

Apparently its been a Henry/Glazer/Parry-driven proposal, with Henry the primary mover. Other top six clubs only became recently aware, but I'm sure they'll be happy enough with it. From what I've read, most clubs outside the bottom ten of the Premier League will likely be happy with it. The bottom ten will lose two EPL places, two homes games, four games altogether, and will be stuck with eight games a year to sell internationally, although on the latter, they might be all right if said games are against the top six (I've no idea how that bit is going to work).

Bottom line is they can’t change anything without 14 of the 20 premier league clubs backing it. 6 clubs pulling up the ladder is unlikely to appeal to the likes of Newcastle, Leeds, Villa, Leicester, Wolves, etc. West Ham have already come out against it very strongly.

I'm sure its occurred to Henry, Glazer and whoever the current voting requirements and they must be confident they can work around them...

possibly. and possibly they were just fishing to gauge the response. or maybe they were hoping that the "other 14" would feel the heat - in that they must agree or else all these smaller clubs will die. or maybe they have just misjudged the room.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: seafoid on October 14, 2020, 11:38:58 AM
https://www.ft.com/content/22ffc8bb-81d8-4d8d-86f3-2b4c70b38ccb

Premier League proposals raise suspicions over US owners’ motives Clubs divided by plan to hand power to elite few as lower leagues seek £250m rescue Liverpool and Manchester United, the Premier League’s two most successful clubs, have backed the plans © Action Images via Reuters

Backers of a significant shake-up that is dividing English football have been forced to defend the proposals amid fierce criticism from the UK government, the Premier League and the Football Association. The plan, devised by Rick Parry, the chairman of the English Football League, which runs the three divisions below the top flight, and Liverpool and Manchester United, the Premier League’s two most successful clubs, would hand a £250m bailout to the EFL as well a 25 per cent share of future media revenue.  For Mr Parry, it is a chance to reset English football and address the unsustainable surge in costs to keep up as the gulf widens between the Premier League and the EFL. It also marks a power grab by the top clubs, as it would concentrate power in the hands of the Big Six, which includes Arsenal, Chelsea, Manchester City and Tottenham Hotspur.

The plan will dominate a previously scheduled meeting of Premier League clubs on Wednesday. A person close to the league said EFL finances would be discussed, though it was unclear whether the leak of “Project Big Picture” would force them to offer an alternative proposal. Adding to the tension was the unexpected resignation on Monday of chief executive David Baldwin. The EFL said his departure was not linked with the furore over the proposals. On Tuesday, a number of EFL clubs, including Championship sides Rotherham United and Preston North End, defended the project in a media call arranged by the league. You’ve got elements of a creeping US model in these proposals Darren Bailey, sports lawyer at Charles Russell Speechlys

The UK government has criticised “backroom deals” to create a “closed shop” at the top of the sport, while Football Association chairman Greg Clarke distanced himself from the plans. “When the principal aim of these discussions became the concentration of power and wealth in the hands of a few clubs with a breakaway league mooted as a threat, I, of course, discontinued my involvement,” said Mr Clarke on Tuesday. Kieran Maguire, an academic and author on accountancy and football, said: “It’s the American ideal of naked capitalism. It makes the Big Six more attractive to investors.”  The US billionaire Glazer family took control of Manchester United in a £790m leveraged buyout in 2005 and later listed the company on the New York Stock Exchange. John Henry is in talks to list Fenway Sports Group, which bought Liverpool in a $300m deal in 2010.  “US sport is run by business for business,” said one adviser to several top clubs. “This smacks of opportunism; a restructuring is needed but this seems to be too much one-way.” Premier League’s relationship with Mr Parry has soured over his decision to hold separate talks with its two biggest clubs, said a person close to the league. “What is wrong with leadership coming from two of the country’s greatest clubs?” said Mr Parry, a former chief executive of Liverpool, of the plans on Sunday. “The message from Liverpool and Manchester United and their ownership is that they actually do genuinely care about the [football] pyramid.” EFL clubs lost £382m last season, according to Mr Parry, with owners injecting a similar sum in the past 12 months. Wages in the Championship, the second tier, amounted to 107 per cent of revenues in the 2018/19 season, according to Deloitte.

 Rick Parry, the chairman of the English Football League, says elite clubs ‘actually do genuinely care’ © Action Images/Reuters Mr Parry blames Premier League “parachute payments” to relegated clubs for encouraging excessive player spending in the EFL. Rob Wilson, a football finance expert at Sheffield Hallam University, said reform was needed to tackle the funding crisis in lower leagues, adding “The status quo isn’t working.” The plan would scrap the one club, one vote system, and hand the Big Six veto over club takeovers, the appointment of the Premier League chief executive, and the distribution of broadcast revenue through special voting powers. Such a radical step is unlikely to gain support among the remaining clubs but has prompted concerns that some teams could splinter from the Premier League to achieve their goals. Some proposals are attractive.


The Premier League would be cut to 18 clubs, which would have the exclusive right to sell eight international matches directly to fans on their own digital platforms. A smaller division, alongside proposals for two fewer cup competitions, could also free up the playing calendar for greater commitments to European competitions. But a smaller league limits chances of promotion. “It could be more difficult to come up and stay when you don’t get a vote on what’s going on,” said a lawyer who has advised several Premier League clubs.
Some analysts draw parallels with US sport, which typically operates closed leagues and where a few dozen wealthy owners dominate. Stricter cost controls, including salary caps for the EFL, are also more reminiscent of the American approach.  “You’ve got elements of a creeping US model in these proposals,” said Darren Bailey, a sports lawyer at Charles Russell Speechlys.


But US sport clubs share power evenly in the organisation of professional leagues. In the National Football League the sharing of lucrative national media revenues and the lack of relegation for underperforming teams has allowed for more even competition, such that a small-market team such as the Kansas City Chiefs became Super Bowl champions this year.
Where some point to “creeping Americanisation” in English football, Mr Maguire said the proposals merely come from US owners. “If you look at American franchised sport, it’s far more democratic than any of these proposals,” he said. Project Big Picture, however, “is in some respects the antithesis of American sport, which is about the good of the league as a whole.”
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: sid waddell on October 14, 2020, 11:46:15 AM
As a Liverpool supporter this thing should be rejected out of hand

It's a transparent disaster capitalist power grab

It's throwing in a few short term goodies to try and fool people into handing over control of football to the big clubs

They should be told to f**k off
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Boycey on October 14, 2020, 12:28:24 PM
As a Liverpool supporter this thing should be rejected out of hand

It's a transparent disaster capitalist power grab

It's throwing in a few short term goodies to try and fool people into handing over control of football to the big clubs

They should be told to f**k off

I'd be against it too but it's hilarious to see the Premier Leugue, and the British government, squirm when it's exactly what The Premier League did themselves back in the early 90s... I don't know enough about the ins and outs of the current plan but I do think it is only a matter of time one way or another.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: shark on October 14, 2020, 02:18:43 PM
As a Liverpool supporter this thing should be rejected out of hand

It's a transparent disaster capitalist power grab

It's throwing in a few short term goodies to try and fool people into handing over control of football to the big clubs

They should be told to f**k off

I'd be against it too but it's hilarious to see the Premier Leugue, and the British government, squirm when it's exactly what The Premier League did themselves back in the early 90s... I don't know enough about the ins and outs of the current plan but I do think it is only a matter of time one way or another.

You do think what is a matter of time?

The requirement to get 14 votes to change anything in the Premier League means that the wealthier clubs have continually failed to push through radical changes that they have wanted in the past. For example, the proposed move from 20 to 18 teams has been on the table for 20 years at this stage. There is no hope they will keep the opposition to that change below 7 votes. They can threaten a breakaway European super league all they want, because nobody believes they would decide to leave domestic football, and also because many wouldn't actually care if they did.
The "six" that are in favour today, will not be six in a few short years, and that is what scares them so much. The owners at Everton, Villa, Wolves, Leicester ,to name four, are so wealthy that the marginal wealth of the six is becoming less and less relevant. There are only so many players one club can buy. Hence why one of their proposals is to be able to block takeovers at other clubs. And another is to be able to stockpile players by allowing a ludicrous amount of external loans.

The 14 have all the power, as all they have to do is get a 50% consensus to block anything.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 14, 2020, 03:54:14 PM
As a Liverpool supporter this thing should be rejected out of hand

It's a transparent disaster capitalist power grab

It's throwing in a few short term goodies to try and fool people into handing over control of football to the big clubs

They should be told to f**k off

100% agree, apart from the Liverpool fan thing though.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: lurganblue on October 14, 2020, 05:03:25 PM
So all 20 clubs voted against the proposal that 6 of them were in favour of... make sense of that if you will.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Boycey on October 14, 2020, 06:48:02 PM
So all 20 clubs voted against the proposal that 6 of them were in favour of... make sense of that if you will.

It's the start of a prolonged strategic campaign, a bit like Brexit but with penalties  ;D. It's amazing how people see things differently, unlike Shark above I see the power as being with the 6 not the 14. Good luck to anybody trying to sell a Premier League product without them. I'm sure there will be a lot of toing and froing but like in most things money ultimately talks?

Anyway defeated for the minute thankfully
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: shark on October 14, 2020, 07:23:11 PM
So all 20 clubs voted against the proposal that 6 of them were in favour of... make sense of that if you will.

It's the start of a prolonged strategic campaign, a bit like Brexit but with penalties  ;D. It's amazing how people see things differently, unlike Shark above I see the power as being with the 6 not the 14. Good luck to anybody trying to sell a Premier League product without them. I'm sure there will be a lot of toing and froing but like in most things money ultimately talks?

Anyway defeated for the minute thankfully

Nobody will have to sell a product without them though. They will never leave. their bluff can be called all day long. They got embarrassed today, with the Everton chairman demanding they apologise. What they want is to play in the premier league but to be guaranteed to be in the champions league every year. And for most of the 00’s the same 4 clubs had that. Then there were 6, and the 4 panicked. Arsenal came 10th last season. We will see more of that happening.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Captain Obvious on October 17, 2020, 04:59:52 PM
Chelsea still look far from convincing under Lampard yet he doesn't seem to get the same heat from the media like some other managers?
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: sid waddell on October 17, 2020, 05:02:57 PM
Chelsea still look far from convincing under Lampard yet he doesn't seem to get the same heat from the media like some other managers?
They made a great effort to beat their weekly three goal handicap

Bravo Lamps and his young home grown lions

The very best of British fighting spirit
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: square_ball on October 18, 2020, 06:24:55 PM
Spurs do a Spurs
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: SHEEDY on October 18, 2020, 06:27:37 PM
Wonder goal by lanzini
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: hardstation on October 18, 2020, 06:27:50 PM
 :o
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Cunny Funt on October 18, 2020, 07:25:16 PM
Wonder goal by lanzini

Do well to see a better goal scored this season.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: GJL on October 18, 2020, 07:36:50 PM
Season is crazy. Hard to know who will win it. Spurs should be pushing on better than they are but throwing away a 3-0 lead is poor. City look decent but not what they were. Liverpool looked average so far and now without VVD they will struggle. Everton look good but can they sustain it? Utd are too inconsistent. Chelsea the same as Utd.

Impossible to predict.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on October 19, 2020, 12:21:19 AM
Season is crazy. Hard to know who will win it. Spurs should be pushing on better than they are but throwing away a 3-0 lead is poor. City look decent but not what they were. Liverpool looked average so far and now without VVD they will struggle. Everton look good but can they sustain it? Utd are too inconsistent. Chelsea the same as Utd.

Impossible to predict.
Lol
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: lurganblue on October 19, 2020, 09:57:46 AM
Season is crazy. Hard to know who will win it. Spurs should be pushing on better than they are but throwing away a 3-0 lead is poor. City look decent but not what they were. Liverpool looked average so far and now without VVD they will struggle. Everton look good but can they sustain it? Utd are too inconsistent. Chelsea the same as Utd.

Impossible to predict.

Villa not even get a mention  :P
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: imtommygunn on October 19, 2020, 10:29:59 AM
Another great result for them.
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Hound on October 19, 2020, 01:33:19 PM
Season is crazy. Hard to know who will win it. Spurs should be pushing on better than they are but throwing away a 3-0 lead is poor. City look decent but not what they were. Liverpool looked average so far and now without VVD they will struggle. Everton look good but can they sustain it? Utd are too inconsistent. Chelsea the same as Utd.

Impossible to predict.

Villa not even get a mention  :P
On oddschecker this morning they had Aston Villa 66/1 to win the league as the current ‘Most Popular Bet’!

City into odds on favorites, Liverpool out to 5/2
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: shark on October 19, 2020, 01:36:40 PM
Season is crazy. Hard to know who will win it. Spurs should be pushing on better than they are but throwing away a 3-0 lead is poor. City look decent but not what they were. Liverpool looked average so far and now without VVD they will struggle. Everton look good but can they sustain it? Utd are too inconsistent. Chelsea the same as Utd.

Impossible to predict.

Villa not even get a mention  :P
On oddschecker this morning they had Aston Villa 66/1 to win the league as the current ‘Most Popular Bet’!

City into odds on favorites, Liverpool out to 5/2

Maybe people speculating on COVID blowing up the season, and Villa winning on PPG  ;D
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: Boycey on October 20, 2020, 10:00:29 AM
I was looking at the betting last night at the Villa are 40/1 with PP  :o. I was astounded at City being odds on as opposed to Liverpool's 5/2, City have plenty of questions about them too in my opinion. The only thing I can think of is there sheer weight of numbers may stand to them in this strange season.....
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: ziggy90 on October 20, 2020, 12:29:45 PM
I was looking at the betting last night at the Villa are 40/1 with PP  :o. I was astounded at City being odds on as opposed to Liverpool's 5/2, City have plenty of questions about them too in my opinion. The only thing I can think of is there sheer weight of numbers may stand to them in this strange season.....
I wonder if the Vile's excellent start to the season has anything to do with the fact that they're not playing in front of their own 'supporters'?
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: ziggy90 on October 20, 2020, 12:33:18 PM
I was looking at the betting last night at the Villa are 40/1 with PP  :o. I was astounded at City being odds on as opposed to Liverpool's 5/2, City have plenty of questions about them too in my opinion. The only thing I can think of is there sheer weight of numbers may stand to them in this strange season.....

I wonder if the Vile's excellent start to the season has anything to do with the fact that they're not playing in front of their own 'supporters'?  ;D
Title: Re: Premier League 20/21
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 20, 2020, 12:33:52 PM
Have to give Villa great credit, they looked dead and buried last year before the restart. Dean Smith has proved a lot of people wrong.

Barkley may well turn out to be a really clever signing from them, an undoubted talent.