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GAA Discussion => GAA Discussion => Topic started by: caprea on July 29, 2020, 12:25:14 PM

Title: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: caprea on July 29, 2020, 12:25:14 PM
The CPA want a fixed calendar for all club fixtures Nationwide. How is this possible considering Dublin/Kilkenny will always have a much longer Intercounty season than say.. Carlow?
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: rrhf on July 29, 2020, 12:34:54 PM
Give each adult season (intercounty and club) 4 months with a month in between both and a 3 month winter break.  All intercounty players already play club. 
all different Youth seasons can be adjusted for their needs over a period of 8/9 months including schools.
Lets cut the costs of long disorganised seasons as soon as possible. Counties will save millions, and clubs as well.   
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: caprea on July 29, 2020, 12:38:50 PM
Give each adult season (intercounty and club) 4 months with a month in between both and a 3 month winter break.  All intercounty players already play club. 
all different Youth seasons can be adjusted for their needs over a period of 8/9 months including schools.
Lets cut the costs of long disorganised seasons as soon as possible. Counties will save millions, and clubs as well.   

So a club player will never play a summer game again? Or can you be specific what months club and county play in?
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: five points on July 29, 2020, 12:42:12 PM
Give each adult season (intercounty and club) 4 months with a month in between both and a 3 month winter break.

Imagine banning club playing activity for 8 months of the year. A single-code player in a dual-code county might only get playing 8 weeks of the year. Madness.
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: caprea on July 29, 2020, 12:44:06 PM
When does under 21, sigerson happen?
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: caprea on July 29, 2020, 12:52:54 PM
Give each adult season (intercounty and club) 4 months with a month in between both and a 3 month winter break.

Imagine banning club playing activity for 8 months of the year. A single-code player in a dual-code county might only get playing 8 weeks of the year. Madness.

Great example, whenever this gets discussed on the radio no one seems to drill into the detail.

There are some problems without a solution...or the solution is county and club split..
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: thewobbler on July 29, 2020, 12:54:13 PM
The CPA is basically a farce.

Ive said from the outset that itís being approached all wrong.

Clubs NEED to learn to let go of county players for extended periods of their league season. And in return, league seasons happen for the 98% without interference.

This is the only logical outcome.

Man the f**k up lads. If 98% of our players are getting unbroken club seasons, itís infinitely better than 100% of players being messed around.
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: caprea on July 29, 2020, 12:57:50 PM
The CPA have no power and no real members who are prepared to follow a strike if one is called.
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: thewobbler on July 29, 2020, 01:03:02 PM
The CPA have no power and no real members who are prepared to follow a strike if one is called.

Agreed. But they can still provide some thought leadership, and help people understand that it will not destroy a club to fulfil league fixtures without county players.


Thereís only 52 weeks a year. If we are lucky thereís at most 40 of those are suited to countrywide GAA activities. Anyone who demands county players must be available for all club games is basically demanding those elite players do it for 40 weeks in a row, while jumping chameleon like between skill levels, fitness levels and tactical approaches. Meanwhile, the 98% might as well take 40 weeks a year off. Or worse still, train for 40 weeks to play 12. Itís f**king insane.
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: caprea on July 29, 2020, 01:06:31 PM
The CPA have no power and no real members who are prepared to follow a strike if one is called.

Agreed. But they can still provide some thought leadership, and help people understand that it will not destroy a club to fulfil league fixtures without county players.


Thereís only 52 weeks a year. If we are lucky thereís at most 40 of those are suited to countrywide GAA activities. Anyone who demands county players must be available for all club games is basically demanding those elite players do it for 40 weeks in a row, while jumping chameleon like between skill levels, fitness levels and tactical approaches. Meanwhile, the 98% might as well take 40 weeks a year off. Or worse still, train for 40 weeks to play 12. Itís f**king insane.

I agree, the CPA arenít even prepared to do away with club championship replays. They are not a serious organization. They never were. They were flawed for the outset.
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: bigarsedkeeper on July 29, 2020, 01:21:54 PM
The CPA have no power and no real members who are prepared to follow a strike if one is called.

Agreed. But they can still provide some thought leadership, and help people understand that it will not destroy a club to fulfil league fixtures without county players.


Thereís only 52 weeks a year. If we are lucky thereís at most 40 of those are suited to countrywide GAA activities. Anyone who demands county players must be available for all club games is basically demanding those elite players do it for 40 weeks in a row, while jumping chameleon like between skill levels, fitness levels and tactical approaches. Meanwhile, the 98% might as well take 40 weeks a year off. Or worse still, train for 40 weeks to play 12. Itís f**king insane.

The problem is that in most counties they've been doing it the wrong way for so long they can't see the way out of it. In Down we're used to it now and everyone gets on with it. It's not a perfect system and the county still get involved at times when they shouldn't but it's as good as you would expect. As a player it was always fairly good and you got regular football as a senior player.
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: downjim on July 29, 2020, 01:48:02 PM
When does under 21, sigerson happen?

Who cares? get rid of them and the worthless competitions that we run
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: caprea on July 29, 2020, 01:58:43 PM
When does under 21, sigerson happen?

Who cares? get rid of them and the worthless competitions that we run

No chance of that, GPA wonít accept sigerson being done away with. Too much of a money spinner for young college going players through scholarships
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: galwayman on July 29, 2020, 02:02:26 PM
The CPA is basically a farce.

Ive said from the outset that itís being approached all wrong.

Clubs NEED to learn to let go of county players for extended periods of their league season. And in return, league seasons happen for the 98% without interference.

This is the only logical outcome.

Man the f**k up lads. If 98% of our players are getting unbroken club seasons, itís infinitely better than 100% of players being messed around.
Absolutely. Why can counties not play off their leagues while the intercounty season is proceeding?
There would be enough time to finish up the leagues completely then before the club championship starts (when intercounty season is finished).
County players come back in for club championship.

Sure as it is now in a lot of counties, county players only really play league games with their clubs once the county is knocked out anyway.
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: rrhf on July 29, 2020, 02:16:54 PM
Give each adult season (intercounty and club) 4 months with a month in between both and a 3 month winter break.

Imagine banning club playing activity for 8 months of the year. A single-code player in a dual-code county might only get playing 8 weeks of the year. Madness.
Iíd say itís possible If you really think about it but always the problem will be willingness to change.
Is there any real reason for adult league and championships to take more than 4 odd months in club or intercounty. Our summer is in April and May these years if itís weather we are talking about. All intercounty grounds have autumn winter lighting. This all Ireland is a litmus test for the way forward.
My approach is based on my belief that intercounty players want to play 8 months or club and county and that club players would be happy to play 16-20 games a year. If the Gaa Chooses to split club and county then go ahead make that call and see what the reaction is. The world will not fall in but it will weaken the organisation hugely in the next 20 years. Otherwise sort the fixtures. Whatís the croke park wage bill and yet this is still not sorted. Do your job! 
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: five points on July 29, 2020, 02:37:31 PM

Is there any real reason for adult league and championships to take more than 4 odd months in club or intercounty.

Because clubs, players and supporters will on balance prefer a longer season and don't particularly want all activity shunted into a third of the year.

Quote
Our summer is in April and May these years if itís weather we are talking about.

We're not talking about weather.

Quote
All intercounty grounds have autumn winter lighting.

No they don't although many do.

Quote
This all Ireland is a litmus test for the way forward.

God help us if it is, with key games played in frost, muck, hail and dark.
Quote
My approach is based on my belief that intercounty players want to play 8 months or club and county and that club players would be happy to play 16-20 games a year
.

You won't get 16-20 games for every club player if you confine their season to 4 months.
Quote
If the Gaa Chooses to split club and county then go ahead make that call and see what the reaction is.
I thought you wanted to do precisely that, by splitting the season in two?
Quote
Otherwise sort the fixtures. Whatís the croke park wage bill and yet this is still not sorted. Do your job!

Arranging club fixtures is the job of for county boards. It has nothing directly to do with Croke Park. Otherwise I think you're optimistic if you think that a lad from Kilkenny or a woman from Cavan is going to be able to sort out the ins and outs of fixtures in Cork with hundreds of clubs, divisional teams, dual codes and huge geographical distances within the county.
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: thewobbler on July 29, 2020, 02:41:26 PM
The reasons why county seasons historically took so long:

1. It allowed club fixtures to be played between county games.

2. With a straight knockout system, 2/3rds of all players were back with their clubs by mid June full time.

3. Staggering them at one per weekend allowed spectators to watch all games in a province.


óó-

Problem being that because no.2 changed with the back door, the arse fell out of no.1 (managers wanted to keep players intact before qualifiers, during qualifiers etc), and also fell out of no.3 (provincials donít have the same resonance without an all-at-stake undercurrent).

Itís taken top brass some 20 years to realise they donít need all this time any more; heads filled with romantic nonsense like ď3rd Sunday in SeptemberĒ and absolute horseshit from paid-by-the-week county managers demanding lengthy breaks between games, and crying furiously at the the thoughts of an end-on-the-same-day policy.

óó-

The solution isnít overly complicated from here.

County championships begin immediately after the league final, with provincials run off in 4 weeks, qualifiers in 3 weeks, super 8 and semis in 4 weeks. AI final played in second week of July.

Meanwhile, club leagues start in April and only really pick up intensity (games per week) in the longer nights of June, which in 24+ counties should see a full squad of players available from the start of June, and in 30 counties, from the end of June.

Club Championships are August and September. Provincial clubs October. All Ireland clubs November.

Sigerson is also played in November. You canít Sigerson if youíre in an AI club semi, but apart from that you can concentrate on it.


óóó

All of this is dependent on clubs playing league fixtures in April and May and some of June without county players.

Once thatís agreed, it makes sense for top brass to compress the inter county season. The same money is made, only quicker. County team costs are more easily managed. The club game wins.


This is surely not a difficult proposition to implement.

But when nonsensical daydreamers like The CPA are around, who claim to represent players but whose stance effectively denies so many of them summer football, itís going to be tough.

Again, wise the f**k up you ones in the CPA.


Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: five points on July 29, 2020, 02:48:12 PM
County championships begin immediately after the league final, with provincials run off in 4 weeks, qualifiers in 3 weeks, super 8 and semis in 4 weeks. AI final played in second week of July.

Cue an annual stampede of county players to the US every June and clubs missing them til the autumn.
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: thewobbler on July 29, 2020, 03:06:04 PM
County championships begin immediately after the league final, with provincials run off in 4 weeks, qualifiers in 3 weeks, super 8 and semis in 4 weeks. AI final played in second week of July.

Cue an annual stampede of county players to the US every June and clubs missing them til the autumn.

Iím not sure what youíre getting at here.

If our worry is that some county standard players will happily jettison their clubs when they donít have county commitments, then why are the 98% putting their seasons on hold to wait for them anyway?
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: rrhf on July 29, 2020, 03:07:47 PM

Is there any real reason for adult league and championships to take more than 4 odd months in club or intercounty.

Because clubs, players and supporters will on balance prefer a longer season and don't particularly want all activity shunted into a third of the year.

Quote
Our summer is in April and May these years if itís weather we are talking about.

We're not talking about weather.
Well holiday season through July August is not to be ignored surely. All are amateurs.

Quote
All intercounty grounds have autumn winter lighting.

No they don't although many do.
Yes most do. Iím sure a solution can be found..

Quote
This all Ireland is a litmus test for the way forward.

God help us if it is, with key games played in frost, muck, hail and dark.

So Then it is weather we are emotivating about.

Quote
My approach is based on my belief that intercounty players want to play 8 months or club and county and that club players would be happy to play 16-20 games a year
.

You won't get 16-20 games for every club player if you confine their season to 4 months. The key is the separation almost 4 months of in between can be looked at. May solve the problem to 90-95 percent and Iím happy with that.
Quote
If the Gaa Chooses to split club and county then go ahead make that call and see what the reaction is.
I thought you wanted to do precisely that, by splitting the season in two?
Sorry my bad. My point is that players will play for both club and county. Key is the shutdown of the county season in terms of group training etc.  Poorly articulated!!
Quote
Otherwise sort the fixtures. Whatís the croke park wage bill and yet this is still not sorted. Do your job!

Arranging club fixtures is the job of for county boards. It has nothing directly to do with Croke Park. Otherwise I think you're optimistic if you think that a lad from Kilkenny or a woman from Cavan is going to be able to sort out the ins and outs of fixtures in Cork with hundreds of clubs, divisional teams, dual codes and huge geographical distances within the county.
Precisely Change the system then. If itís  my job to do that and Iím paid to do that, thatís what I need to do. The framework and overall structure is mastered With oversight by croke Park otherwise life is a free for all. The county boards deliver it to their capabilities. Everything will be ok.
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: rrhf on July 29, 2020, 03:13:18 PM
County championships begin immediately after the league final, with provincials run off in 4 weeks, qualifiers in 3 weeks, super 8 and semis in 4 weeks. AI final played in second week of July.

Cue an annual stampede of county players to the US every June and clubs missing them til the autumn.
Surely in the first place that is a minority decision. More importantly I donít think itís in the gaa remit to stop amateur players making their own life calls. We really need to be careful with the level of control over young people we want to enforce by fixture making. That person who wants to see the world should not be stopped so therefore beyond our remit. Everyone has the right to live their life in an amateur game.
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: rrhf on July 29, 2020, 03:15:02 PM
Is there still a desire to control the minds of people In Ireland behind some of these views?
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: five points on July 29, 2020, 03:15:31 PM
Precisely Change the system then. If itís  my job to do that and Iím paid to do that, thatís what I need to do. The framework and overall structure is mastered With oversight by croke Park otherwise life is a free for all. The county boards deliver it to their capabilities. Everything will be ok.

Nobody in Croke Park is paid to arrange club fixtures though, because the situation in each county is different. That's why I mentioned Cork. Very few other counties have a club setup remotely similar to theirs and for that reason most outsiders will be at a total loss devising anything that suits them.

And club fixture planning is hardly a free-for-all once each county has a CCC appointed by the clubs.
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: five points on July 29, 2020, 03:17:38 PM
Is there still a desire to control the minds of people In Ireland behind some of these views?

Projection? You're the guy who wants to strip the clubs in each county of the control they currently exercise to self-determine their own fixtures.
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: five points on July 29, 2020, 03:20:08 PM
County championships begin immediately after the league final, with provincials run off in 4 weeks, qualifiers in 3 weeks, super 8 and semis in 4 weeks. AI final played in second week of July.

Cue an annual stampede of county players to the US every June and clubs missing them til the autumn.
Surely in the first place that is a minority decision. More importantly I donít think itís in the gaa remit to stop amateur players making their own life calls. We really need to be careful with the level of control over young people we want to enforce by fixture making. That person who wants to see the world should not be stopped so therefore beyond our remit. Everyone has the right to live their life in an amateur game.

Nobody is stopping anyone from doing anything but by forcing most counties out of the championships before the school holidays, you are making it far more attractive for county players to disappear for the summer. Which is great for them but less so for their clubs.
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: thewobbler on July 29, 2020, 03:32:30 PM
So if Iím reading you right here, you think it might be better for every single club player to endure patchwork, ad hoc seasons, as the byproduct of this mess is that it is sometimes more difficult for a tiny percentage of players to step out completely?

I just donít get that.
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: rrhf on July 29, 2020, 03:34:49 PM
I have no doubt someone should be appointed then or just the role switched to a new And Possibly more Productive role. I would love to see the wage others costs bill benchmarked as good practice every 5 years against similar stadia and sporting organisations. Iíd say they compare favourably but this fixture arguement has and I say this with a small d... too much democracy attached to it in an attempt to keep everyone happy, and not enough strong leadership in a bid to solve. If a common sense approach like the wobblers is unachievable in your and many opinions then it needs another approach which works first on paper and then practiced.
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: five points on July 29, 2020, 03:51:09 PM
So if Iím reading you right here, you think it might be better for every single club player to endure patchwork, ad hoc seasons, as the byproduct of this mess is that it is sometimes more difficult for a tiny percentage of players to step out completely?

I just donít get that.

Who's enduring anything?
If your county operates to a master fixtures plan, why is your season patchwork and ad hoc? If it doesn't, why not?
Is it a mess at all?
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: five points on July 29, 2020, 03:53:07 PM
I have no doubt someone should be appointed then or just the role switched to a new And Possibly more Productive role. I would love to see the wage others costs bill benchmarked as good practice every 5 years against similar stadia and sporting organisations. Iíd say they compare favourably but this fixture arguement has and I say this with a small d... too much democracy attached to it in an attempt to keep everyone happy, and not enough strong leadership in a bid to solve. If a common sense approach like the wobblers is unachievable in your and many opinions then it needs another approach which works first on paper and then practiced.

You do realise that county CCCs are run by volunteers?
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: five points on July 29, 2020, 03:55:40 PM
County championships begin immediately after the league final, with provincials run off in 4 weeks, qualifiers in 3 weeks, super 8 and semis in 4 weeks. AI final played in second week of July.

Cue an annual stampede of county players to the US every June and clubs missing them til the autumn.

Iím not sure what youíre getting at here.

If our worry is that some county standard players will happily jettison their clubs when they donít have county commitments, then why are the 98% putting their seasons on hold to wait for them anyway?
It's already happening and it's a key reason why clubs vote for the business end of championships to start only when the summer is over.
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: thewobbler on July 29, 2020, 04:16:27 PM
So if Iím reading you right here, you think it might be better for every single club player to endure patchwork, ad hoc seasons, as the byproduct of this mess is that it is sometimes more difficult for a tiny percentage of players to step out completely?

I just donít get that.

Who's enduring anything?
If your county operates to a master fixtures plan, why is your season patchwork and ad hoc? If it doesn't, why not?
Is it a mess at all?

Itís not a mess in Down because of the started system and league playoffs. Itís been a bit disjointed in places the past 8-9 years as the league structure has been rebuilt so many times. But it would have been good this year.

But in terms of potential changes, going the first 5-8 league games without county players, instead of random dates in and out over 3 months, would be an improvement. County players wouldnít be cut in two from competing masters, and club managers could focus on tactics and personnel more clearly.

óó

Down has had one of the best systems in the country for the past two decades. But it is underpinned by club acceptance  theyíll be playing up to half their league without county men.

Thatís the brunt of my argument, and the bit that the CPA donít seem to wish to address
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: five points on July 29, 2020, 04:35:02 PM
Sounds good. I reckon most counties' fixtures are in reasonably good order although we'd never guess that from listening to the CPA.
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: rosnarun on July 29, 2020, 05:46:28 PM
When does under 21, sigerson happen?

Who cares? get rid of them and the worthless competitions that we run
I hope that's sarcasm
  they are the 2 most important completions out side the senior inter country . Yong lads learn its their responsibility   if they want to keep playing . for most its the 1st time going to training was not an obligation to their Club/family . no one cares in college  if you play or not .
I would love if there were b,c,and D competitions  to keep as many playing as possible , mays a good footballer lost his way in college for the want of a team to play with
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: Rossfan on July 29, 2020, 05:53:17 PM
Sounds good. I reckon most counties' fixtures are in reasonably good order although we'd never guess that from listening to the CPA.
The latest CPA rant that I'm reading in today's sports news sounds like a post on a forum at 2am from some lad who's been out on the town all night.
They threw their rattle out of the pram last year and walked away from the Fixtures Review group and seem to have become an irrelevance
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: rrhf on July 29, 2020, 05:55:26 PM
I have no doubt someone should be appointed then or just the role switched to a new And Possibly more Productive role. I would love to see the wage others costs bill benchmarked as good practice every 5 years against similar stadia and sporting organisations. Iíd say they compare favourably but this fixture arguement has and I say this with a small d... too much democracy attached to it in an attempt to keep everyone happy, and not enough strong leadership in a bid to solve. If a common sense approach like the wobblers is unachievable in your and many opinions then it needs another approach which works first on paper and then practiced.

You do realise that county CCCs are run by volunteers?
Yes do you think there is a continuous problem with the broad frames work of timescales between club v county- an argument that the clubs may lose, and ultimately the players they have trained for years. Factors beyond the county boards control eg schools uniball, and provincial and all Ireland club not to mention the intercounty league championship and Mc Kenna cup. How can a county ccc solve this without it being addressed centrally.
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: five points on July 29, 2020, 10:55:45 PM
I have no doubt someone should be appointed then or just the role switched to a new And Possibly more Productive role. I would love to see the wage others costs bill benchmarked as good practice every 5 years against similar stadia and sporting organisations. Iíd say they compare favourably but this fixture arguement has and I say this with a small d... too much democracy attached to it in an attempt to keep everyone happy, and not enough strong leadership in a bid to solve. If a common sense approach like the wobblers is unachievable in your and many opinions then it needs another approach which works first on paper and then practiced.

You do realise that county CCCs are run by volunteers?
Yes do you think there is a continuous problem with the broad frames work of timescales between club v county- an argument that the clubs may lose, and ultimately the players they have trained for years. Factors beyond the county boards control eg schools uniball, and provincial and all Ireland club not to mention the intercounty league championship and Mc Kenna cup. How can a county ccc solve this without it being addressed centrally.

There are central and provincial master fixture plans too.  County CCCs work within these parameters.
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: Armagh Cķchulainns on July 30, 2020, 09:28:04 AM
Long story short is that there are too many competitions for certain players with competitions overstretched to gain the most out of them in terms of revenues - inevitably this leads to overlapping commitments which will draw clashes.

Clubs want their players and at some ages want them for multiple teams and possibly committed to both Gaelic and Hurling.
Counties at senior level and underage are no different and then throw in Schools/Colleges.

Demands for players is the wrecking the player and ultimately the games suffer as a consequence.
I regularly speak to our underage players in my clubs that play with a number of teams and its cringeworthy what you hear.
These lads are 15-18 and its ridiculous what's asked of them yet in cases were we, as in the gaa family, force them from the game when it gets too much we all sit back and ignore it or say they werent cut out for it!!

The only way I see the GAA solving the overlap of players playing with multiple squads, multiple competitions, and competing training/match schedules is to go down a route similar to rugby where player availability is restricted to certain competitions.

Players have to put front and centre - not the people above them wanting to 'solve' the crisis while sitting with their rose tinted glasses on.
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: FermGael on August 07, 2020, 04:01:01 PM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2020/0807/1157916-gpa-proposal-would-see-inter-county-season-end-by-july/


Fair play to the GPA.
Not their biggest fan but at least now they are showing leadership.
Its what needs to happen.
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: rrhf on August 10, 2020, 10:07:29 PM
Not a million miles off my thought process. I must have the inside track to the lads.
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: sid waddell on August 11, 2020, 01:15:27 AM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2020/0807/1157916-gpa-proposal-would-see-inter-county-season-end-by-july/


Fair play to the GPA.
Not their biggest fan but at least now they are showing leadership.
Its what needs to happen.
It really isn't, though.

There is a continual overlooking of the fact that the inter-county scene is the GAA's shop window, that the GAA competes against professional sport for interest and thus competes with those sports for children and young people playing the games, that August and September have traditionally been the GAA's two biggest months in terms of attention - months in which most other major sports have a lull period - and that by giving up those two months, you're giving up attention to other sports. June and July is a much more crowded sporting environment with World Cups, Euros, Olympics every second year and Wimbledon, the British Open and the Tour de France on every year. Rugby's Lions Tour is a another quadrennial summer counter attraction.

Giving up your prime traditional months, months which offer you unchallenged attention, is idiotic in publicity and interest terms.

April is already designated as a club month. I wonder has anybody ever thought of running off the club championships between April and the end of June and then starting the inter-county championships in July and running through to October. It would offer a real shop window for club players to stake a claim for inter-county places and wring the maximum publicity out of what are traditionally sparse enough months in the general sporting environment.





Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: magpie seanie on August 11, 2020, 10:35:11 AM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2020/0807/1157916-gpa-proposal-would-see-inter-county-season-end-by-july/


Fair play to the GPA.
Not their biggest fan but at least now they are showing leadership.
Its what needs to happen.
It really isn't, though.

There is a continual overlooking of the fact that the inter-county scene is the GAA's shop window, that the GAA competes against professional sport for interest and thus competes with those sports for children and young people playing the games, that August and September have traditionally been the GAA's two biggest months in terms of attention - months in which most other major sports have a lull period - and that by giving up those two months, you're giving up attention to other sports. June and July is a much more crowded sporting environment with World Cups, Euros, Olympics every second year and Wimbledon, the British Open and the Tour de France on every year. Rugby's Lions Tour is a another quadrennial summer counter attraction.

Giving up your prime traditional months, months which offer you unchallenged attention, is idiotic in publicity and interest terms.

April is already designated as a club month. I wonder has anybody ever thought of running off the club championships between April and the end of June and then starting the inter-county championships in July and running through to October. It would offer a real shop window for club players to stake a claim for inter-county places and wring the maximum publicity out of what are traditionally sparse enough months in the general sporting environment.


I'm pretty sure that was one of the proposals from the Fixtures review committee. That report was really good and should be read by all people with an interest in GAA.

I think there are some downsides to completely separate club and county seasons but this enforced trial has shown there's a lot going for it too. The right balance is going to be impossible but certainty is what all players want.
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: Rossfan on August 11, 2020, 06:30:24 PM
The Fixtures Review Committee road show was aborted by the oul Covid.
Good to see them getting back into some action and I'm sure this unusual year's fixtures will have given them food for thought.
Mind you we had a totally closed season of three months which probably won't be happening again

Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: magpie seanie on August 12, 2020, 09:38:44 AM
The Fixtures Review Committee road show was aborted by the oul Covid.
Good to see them getting back into some action and I'm sure this unusual year's fixtures will have given them food for thought.
Mind you we had a totally closed season of three months which probably won't be happening again


I actually think this is a case where a radical proposal wouldn't have really had a chance except we're getting a taste of it not due to unforeseen circumstances. If people feel it works it might gather momentum. There might be something to thank the oul Covid for!
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: Farrandeelin on August 12, 2020, 10:53:54 AM
Surely there has to be some form of club competition when the county competition is on in a hypothetical scenario if this kind of situation happened. It might not suit clubs with more county players than others, but it would at least keep players interested in the competitions.
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: magpie seanie on August 12, 2020, 12:29:58 PM
Surely there has to be some form of club competition when the county competition is on in a hypothetical scenario if this kind of situation happened. It might not suit clubs with more county players than others, but it would at least keep players interested in the competitions.


Yes, I personally think there should also be games without county players (and there are in a lot of counties) but the certainty and security of the championships must be secured first and foremost. Leagues without championship status implications for example.
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: Angelo on August 18, 2020, 07:45:06 AM
Both club and county seasons should be a lot shorter.

In the current guise intercounty football starts in early January with competitive games and ends in late Aug/early Sept.

Club football starts in or around April and historically went on until March but I think the AI club finals were in January this year?

So in effect you have both intercounty and club matches running for 8/9 months each at different intervals meaning county players are demanded all year round.

It's good to see some big calls now for completely segregating the two streams, it would allow clubs access to their players and a more defined fixture list.

Conceivably you could get the county season ran off in 3-4 months and maybe 4-5 month for the clubs. Some counties have extremely convoluted methods for the county championships with backdoor systems and round robins etc, I don't think you need that in club football.

For the county season, you are probably looking at 7 rounds of a league, played back to back weekends and get rid of the finals.

I'd be loathe to lose the Ulster Championship but it's the only properly functioning provincial system in it and it's not really fair on Ulster counties but I think an open 32 draw for Championship is required. Teams should be seeded via their league standing, Div 1 and 2 counties seeded, Div 3 and 4 unseeded. Championship is straight knockout, winners go into the last 16, losers go into a last 16 B competition. Everything open draw from there on in. The Championship should be able to be ran off over 5 weeks. TV rights could be an issue but look at the disrespect played to the football Championship in recent years, I think RTE had one football championship match covered live last year before the Provincial finals which was the Donegal and Tyrone meeting.

You could run the Championship off in 5 weeks. There is an option for standalone provincial competitions if wanted that could be played before or after the league.

The club system should operate in a similar manner and I believe there should be some sort of standardised regulations across the island. I don't like what they do down in Kerry to be honest, I think it breeds super clubs - how many actual senior clubs take part in the County Senior Championship - is it something like 6?

It's an amateur game and some of the demands expected of club players these days is unrealistic. Do league campaigns really need to run into around 20 games as they do in some counties? 8-10 clubs per division and one round of matches should be perfectly realistic, club championships should all be straight knockout as they are at Provincial and All Ireland level. Some clubs teams are probably not a whole way off playing 30-40 competitive games in a season which I think is madness, particularly when they will inevitably have some county players who could be playing county football, Sigerson etc along with that.

You'd probably have your warm up competitions etc too that might have another 3 or 4 games so every club would have 10+ competitive games in the year and potentially up to 20 for those who progress on in their county championships, provincial and All Ireland. There's nothing stopping counties setting up their own pre-season tournaments that don't involve county players either to fill in the gap before the club season starts.

It's an interesting debate that the Covid debacle has caused now, there's certainly greater interest than normal in the club scene.
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: caprea on August 18, 2020, 11:14:01 AM
Why do the CPA never address that this system will leave players in Carlow and loads of other second tier counties twiddling their thumbs for at least 2 months from start of June to start of August in prime summer season.
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: Rossfan on September 05, 2020, 02:35:35 PM
As it appears well be having the "split" with County (primarily) to mid July and Club solely from there on...
What do ye think of the GPA proposals?
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40043720.html

No Provincials in football will hardly make it.
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: sid waddell on September 05, 2020, 03:08:17 PM
As it appears well be having the "split" with County (primarily) to mid July and Club solely from there on...
What do ye think of the GPA proposals?
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40043720.html

No Provincials in football will hardly make it.
Not much

Provincial championships should stay and All-Ireland finals in July is a crazy idea

Run county and All-Ireland club championships from April 1-June 30

Run inter-county championships from July to October

Or else have a FIFA-like rule mandating the release of county players for clubs on designated weekends throughout the year, with no exceptions
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: macdanger2 on September 05, 2020, 03:11:42 PM
As it appears well be having the "split" with County (primarily) to mid July and Club solely from there on...
What do ye think of the GPA proposals?
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40043720.html

No Provincials in football will hardly make it.

Not a bad proposal, makes the league more important and gives every team a pretty equal route
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: Rossfan on September 18, 2020, 11:04:26 AM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2020/0918/1165957-gaas-fixture-taskforce-only-considering-split-season/
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: Blowitupref on September 18, 2020, 02:03:27 PM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2020/0918/1165957-gaas-fixture-taskforce-only-considering-split-season/

Quote
Meanwhile, with uncertainty amid the pandemic, it's also possible that the 2021 Allianz League structure could be adjusted


In what way will it be adjusted I'd wonder?
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: Farrandeelin on September 18, 2020, 02:40:15 PM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2020/0918/1165957-gaas-fixture-taskforce-only-considering-split-season/

Quote
Meanwhile, with uncertainty amid the pandemic, it's also possible that the 2021 Allianz League structure could be adjusted


In what way will it be adjusted I'd wonder?

#dublinlockedout
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: Eire90 on September 21, 2020, 11:50:21 AM
i believe all club county championships should be straight knockout aswell  to make them different from the leagues  in counties with low numbers maybe you could use league positions to determine byes.
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: Rossfan on September 21, 2020, 11:54:12 AM
No.
Title: Re: How is a fixed calendar for club possible?
Post by: Farrandeelin on September 22, 2020, 01:20:53 PM
They should leave the club first, not the county in my opinion in case of injuries to players etc, that is if things return to normal properly.