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GAA Discussion => GAA Discussion => Topic started by: thewobbler on August 31, 2019, 10:46:09 PM

Title: A question for the over 50s
Post by: thewobbler on August 31, 2019, 10:46:09 PM
I’ve never had less interest in AI final than tomorrow’s occasion. Much as I hope I’m wrong it feels like a foregone conclusion, one in which Dublin will up the tempo for 20 mins and blow Kerry into submission. Plus I have an emptying sense that a healthy group of Dublin’s players will talk spend their interviews talking about 6-in-a-row rather than bask in the glory.

I’m a little too young to remember Kerry’s dominance.

Was it like this in the early 80s too? Although that Kerry team have subsequently (and rightly) been immortalised in popular culture, match day attendances would suggest that football was at a low ebb in terms of popularity.

Also has anyone the clarity of mind to remember if the press and pundits spent their days complaining about unfair advantages. Or were we not as cynical then?
Title: Re: A question for the over 50s
Post by: 6th sam on August 31, 2019, 11:12:12 PM
I’ve never had less interest in AI final than tomorrow’s occasion. Much as I hope I’m wrong it feels like a foregone conclusion, one in which Dublin will up the tempo for 20 mins and blow Kerry into submission. Plus I have an emptying sense that a healthy group of Dublin’s players will talk spend their interviews talking about 6-in-a-row rather than bask in the glory.

I’m a little too young to remember Kerry’s dominance.

Was it like this in the early 80s too? Although that Kerry team have subsequently (and rightly) been immortalised in popular culture, match day attendances would suggest that football was at a low ebb in terms of popularity.

Also has anyone the clarity of mind to remember if the press and pundits spent their days complaining about unfair advantages. Or were we not as cynical then?
Similar in that the view was that nobody could get near Kerry .
Offaly would have won a couple extra all-Ireland’s in another era.
Like now ,Ulster was well
Out of the picture .
Difference back then was that Kerry didn’t have any unfair advantage and though people wanted to see them best as football was getting boring , there was no resentment towards them.
Dublin’s problem is that though they need to be congratulated for making the most of their advantages, those financial and population  advantages are too great and people are fed up with the system
Title: Re: A question for the over 50s
Post by: Itchy on August 31, 2019, 11:17:03 PM
Thought this was going to be a question about Viagra
Title: Re: A question for the over 50s
Post by: screenexile on August 31, 2019, 11:49:20 PM
I’ve never had less interest in AI final than tomorrow’s occasion. Much as I hope I’m wrong it feels like a foregone conclusion, one in which Dublin will up the tempo for 20 mins and blow Kerry into submission. Plus I have an emptying sense that a healthy group of Dublin’s players will talk spend their interviews talking about 6-in-a-row rather than bask in the glory.

I’m a little too young to remember Kerry’s dominance.

Was it like this in the early 80s too? Although that Kerry team have subsequently (and rightly) been immortalised in popular culture, match day attendances would suggest that football was at a low ebb in terms of popularity.

Also has anyone the clarity of mind to remember if the press and pundits spent their days complaining about unfair advantages. Or were we not as cynical then?
Similar in that the view was that nobody could get near Kerry .
Offaly would have won a couple extra all-Ireland’s in another era.
Like now ,Ulster was well
Out of the picture .
Difference back then was that Kerry didn’t have any unfair advantage and though people wanted to see them best as football was getting boring , there was no resentment towards them.
Dublin’s problem is that though they need to be congratulated for making the most of their advantages, those financial and population  advantages are too great and people are fed up with the system

Surely the procession through Munster was an unfair advantage?

One plus for the Super 8s is that Kerry now have to play more than one decent side to get to an AISF!
Title: Re: A question for the over 50s
Post by: under the bar on August 31, 2019, 11:51:28 PM
Thought this was going to be a question about Viagra

A hard question?
Title: Re: A question for the over 50s
Post by: henrym14 on September 01, 2019, 12:03:39 AM
Thought this was going to be a question about Viagra

A hard question?

You wont need them tablets thinking about the jackeens all the time.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: A question for the over 50s
Post by: Wildweasel74 on September 01, 2019, 12:30:46 AM
All I remember was orange gloves, a great kerry team and and Matt Connor.
Title: Re: A question for the over 50s
Post by: Jim Bob on September 01, 2019, 12:39:22 AM
Those days you only got seeing 3 games live. The 2 semis and the final.
Also with Micheal o heir commentating made the matches compulsive viewing. You werent saturated with GAA coverage the whole year round so you just enjoyed seeing the games
Title: Re: A question for the over 50s
Post by: From the Bunker on September 01, 2019, 01:06:22 AM
Kerry only played 3 games in 1980 to win an AI! Yes 3! So they had their advantages then!

Michael O'Heir was good for the time. But time has shown how limited he really was.  A lot of recycling of catch phrases.

The thing with the Kerry team was there was only a trickle of new blood here and there during their dominance, so the general public were just waiting for that group to get old.

The same can not be said of Dublin.
Title: Re: A question for the over 50s
Post by: BennyCake on September 01, 2019, 01:14:45 AM
I wasn’t around for o’Hehir’s commentaries, but by God, that voice of his was very hard to listen to.
Title: Re: A question for the over 50s
Post by: Gmac on September 01, 2019, 02:56:25 AM
Kerry could have got 9 in a row 78-86 they were beaten by a last minute goal in 83 Munster final by cork who drew with Dublin in semi and lost replay so yes they were an exceptional team and hammered most that got in their way
Title: Re: A question for the over 50s
Post by: Ball Hopper on September 01, 2019, 06:08:05 AM
Pat Spillane said that a lot of the 1982 team would have retired if they won the 5 in a row. 

They were tired in 1983 and deservedly lost to Cork, even if it was a late minute goal that beat them. 

By 1984, Pat says they were fresh again and won "three  handy titles" (his words), although Monaghan in 1985 semi-final took them to a replay.

At the dinner after the 1980 semi-final victory over Offaly, a team member said in a group conversation that Offaly are the best up and coming championship team and Kerry's next loss would probably be to them.  He was right.
Title: Re: A question for the over 50s
Post by: trailer on September 01, 2019, 10:43:27 AM
I'll watch the game but I fallen out of love with The Championship. Good luck to both teams.

Title: Re: A question for the over 50s
Post by: J70 on September 01, 2019, 11:56:02 AM
I watched a bit of the Seamus Darby game on GAA Go this weekend.

It’s shocking how the quality of the football has changed. Even in such a showcase game, featuring all-time elite players, it was all lumping it up the field in the general direction of the forwards, with constant turnovers in possession. No value on possession or accurate passing to a man in space. Not saying the players weren’t good - they’d be elite today also having undergone the physical, skills and tactical training modern players do, but the game itself was just so primitive.
Title: Re: A question for the over 50s
Post by: playwiththewind1st on September 01, 2019, 12:02:11 PM
It might have been, but people seemed to enjoy it more back then.
Title: Re: A question for the over 50s
Post by: seafoid on September 01, 2019, 12:26:45 PM
Pat Spillane said that a lot of the 1982 team would have retired if they won the 5 in a row. 

They were tired in 1983 and deservedly lost to Cork, even if it was a late minute goal that beat them. 

By 1984, Pat says they were fresh again and won "three  handy titles" (his words), although Monaghan in 1985 semi-final took them to a replay.

At the dinner after the 1980 semi-final victory over Offaly, a team member said in a group conversation that Offaly are the best up and coming championship team and Kerry's next loss would probably be to them.  He was right.
James Last played at the Rose of Tralee in 1983

The German commentator was surprised at the reaction for one song at 5:22
https://youtu.be/zjieoLrQkm0
Title: Re: A question for the over 50s
Post by: Hound on September 02, 2019, 02:21:16 PM
I watched a bit of the Seamus Darby game on GAA Go this weekend.

It’s shocking how the quality of the football has changed. Even in such a showcase game, featuring all-time elite players, it was all lumping it up the field in the general direction of the forwards, with constant turnovers in possession. No value on possession or accurate passing to a man in space. Not saying the players weren’t good - they’d be elite today also having undergone the physical, skills and tactical training modern players do, but the game itself was just so primitive.

So similar to how hurling is played now?
Title: Re: A question for the over 50s
Post by: Keyser soze on September 02, 2019, 03:44:41 PM
I watched a bit of the Seamus Darby game on GAA Go this weekend.

It’s shocking how the quality of the football has changed. Even in such a showcase game, featuring all-time elite players, it was all lumping it up the field in the general direction of the forwards, with constant turnovers in possession. No value on possession or accurate passing to a man in space. Not saying the players weren’t good - they’d be elite today also having undergone the physical, skills and tactical training modern players do, but the game itself was just so primitive.

When people look st back at today's game in 40 years time no doubt they will find it primitive as well. 
Title: Re: A question for the over 50s
Post by: playwiththewind1st on September 02, 2019, 04:07:39 PM
If it's still even being played at that stage.
Title: Re: A question for the over 50s
Post by: J70 on September 02, 2019, 04:14:06 PM
I watched a bit of the Seamus Darby game on GAA Go this weekend.

It’s shocking how the quality of the football has changed. Even in such a showcase game, featuring all-time elite players, it was all lumping it up the field in the general direction of the forwards, with constant turnovers in possession. No value on possession or accurate passing to a man in space. Not saying the players weren’t good - they’d be elite today also having undergone the physical, skills and tactical training modern players do, but the game itself was just so primitive.

So similar to how hurling is played now?

Yes. I don't really watch hurling these days, but that was definitely the case when I did.
Title: Re: A question for the over 50s
Post by: J70 on September 02, 2019, 04:15:45 PM
I watched a bit of the Seamus Darby game on GAA Go this weekend.

It’s shocking how the quality of the football has changed. Even in such a showcase game, featuring all-time elite players, it was all lumping it up the field in the general direction of the forwards, with constant turnovers in possession. No value on possession or accurate passing to a man in space. Not saying the players weren’t good - they’d be elite today also having undergone the physical, skills and tactical training modern players do, but the game itself was just so primitive.

When people look st back at today's game in 40 years time no doubt they will find it primitive as well.

Perhaps. but they'll still be able to distinguish it from the hit-and-hope stuff of the earlier days.
Title: Re: A question for the over 50s
Post by: Keyser soze on September 02, 2019, 04:28:45 PM
I watched a bit of the Seamus Darby game on GAA Go this weekend.

It’s shocking how the quality of the football has changed. Even in such a showcase game, featuring all-time elite players, it was all lumping it up the field in the general direction of the forwards, with constant turnovers in possession. No value on possession or accurate passing to a man in space. Not saying the players weren’t good - they’d be elite today also having undergone the physical, skills and tactical training modern players do, but the game itself was just so primitive.

When people look st back at today's game in 40 years time no doubt they will find it primitive as well.

Perhaps. but they'll still be able to distinguish it from the hit-and-hope stuff of the earlier days.

All sports are forever evolving, all generations are smugly self congratulatory that they have reached a peak of performance that is at a new level in comparison to how it was done in the past.  A couple of examples are the revolutionary new approach by Down in the 60's which was surpassed by the Golden football of Kerry in the 70's and then again by the Puke Football Tyrone era of the Noughties which has  been passed out by the Dublin evolution, which will of course be in turn surpassed by the next phase of development. 
Title: Re: A question for the over 50s
Post by: thewobbler on September 02, 2019, 04:42:49 PM
Based on soccer it won’t evolve too much from here, unless forced by rule change.

It took 10 years after frees from hands became allowed, before teams began to favour possession over territory. It took another 10 years before counter attacking (ultra defensive) football became prominent. Dublin are a hybrid of those concepts.

Managers from here will bounce between these tactical approaches depending on what they have at their disposal. And a few will even favour territory over possession, when suitable ball winning forwards are available.
Title: Re: A question for the over 50s
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on September 07, 2019, 09:56:44 AM
I’m a little too young to remember Kerry’s dominance. Was it like this in the early 80s too? Although that Kerry team have subsequently (and rightly) been immortalised in popular culture, match day attendances would suggest that football was at a low ebb in terms of popularity. Also has anyone the clarity of mind to remember if the press and pundits spent their days complaining about unfair advantages. Or were we not as cynical then?

My recollection was that there was an apathy generated by the Kerry dominance. As an example, our All Ireland semi-final with Kerry in 1982 was one of the lowest attendances ever for such a game. The official attendance was just over 17,000 and I recall that that was made up of almost exclusively Armagh fans, with Kerry supporters and neutrals giving it a miss.

There was no talk about unfair advantages, save for the fact that Munster was deemed to be an easy route to an All Ireland semi-final, with 1980 (where Kerry were placed in a Munster Final) seen as an example of that.

Kerry were simply deemed to have a great set of players and a great manager. Kerry had players who were reckoned would walk on to any team in Ireland but rarely saw Championship action with Kerry. Vincent O'Connor was one such player and I remember a lad called John L. McElligott (sp?) running riot against us in the '82 league semi-final, yet he never seemed to feature in the Championship.

When Kerry would be beaten in the league, the common interpretation was that they were not doing anything of serious note until the Championship and that they were not taking the league seriously.

When they were beaten in '82 and '83, there was also a sense that they were unlucky to a degree, conceding very late goals, and the subsequent three-in-a-row seemed to bear that out. I remember the '83 semi-finals between Cork and Dublin had a real sense of something new and refreshing.

However when Cork beat Kerry in a replay in Killarney in '87 there was a definite sense of the end of an era. 
Title: Re: A question for the over 50s
Post by: dec on September 08, 2019, 11:06:14 PM

When Kerry would be beaten in the league, the common interpretation was that they were not doing anything of serious note until the Championship and that they were not taking the league seriously.


When they changed from the old north/south split in the National League to a single divison one in 1980, Armagh got to play Kerry in Lurgan and hammered them. It did feel good to beat the All Ireland champions even if it felt that the result would be different in the championship.
Title: Re: A question for the over 50s
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on September 09, 2019, 09:44:39 AM
When they changed from the old north/south split in the National League to a single divison one in 1980, Armagh got to play Kerry in Lurgan and hammered them. It did feel good to beat the All Ireland champions even if it felt that the result would be different in the championship.

Yes, finished something like 1-17 to 2-5. I think that match might have been all ticket - 17,000 if my memory serves me well - as that was the first time Kerry had crossed the border.

We beat them again in Davitt Park and I recall we scored six goals, with Johnny Corvan and Mickey McDonald to the fore.


Championship though was a different matter! 
Title: Re: A question for the over 50s
Post by: passedit on September 09, 2019, 10:50:19 AM
When they changed from the old north/south split in the National League to a single divison one in 1980, Armagh got to play Kerry in Lurgan and hammered them. It did feel good to beat the All Ireland champions even if it felt that the result would be different in the championship.

Yes, finished something like 1-17 to 2-5. I think that match might have been all ticket - 17,000 if my memory serves me well - as that was the first time Kerry had crossed the border.

We beat them again in Davitt Park and I recall we scored six goals, with Johnny Corvan and Mickey McDonald to the fore.


Championship though was a different matter!

I was in Davitt Park for that game and the story was the entire Kerry team spent the night before in James Mc Cartan's pub in Donaghcloney. Allegedly it took several strong men to carry the Bomber to bed!

Also remember there being a Hunger Strike demonstration at half time.
Title: Re: A question for the over 50s
Post by: BennyCake on September 09, 2019, 12:17:29 PM

When Kerry would be beaten in the league, the common interpretation was that they were not doing anything of serious note until the Championship and that they were not taking the league seriously.


When they changed from the old north/south split in the National League to a single divison one in 1980, Armagh got to play Kerry in Lurgan and hammered them. It did feel good to beat the All Ireland champions even if it felt that the result would be different in the championship.

Sure the League was only a ball-stealing exercise for Micko. The Kerry bus probably headed back over the border with a half dozen of smuggled Armagh balls!
Title: Re: A question for the over 50s
Post by: Rossfan on September 09, 2019, 12:40:18 PM
This may be an urban myth but Bomber Liston is supposed to have said
"People think playing for Kerry is all about football and beer. It is not. Some of us haven't kicked a ball for 6 months"
Title: Re: A question for the over 50s
Post by: armaghniac on September 09, 2019, 01:32:44 PM
When they changed from the old north/south split in the National League to a single divison one in 1980, Armagh got to play Kerry in Lurgan and hammered them. It did feel good to beat the All Ireland champions even if it felt that the result would be different in the championship.

Yes, finished something like 1-17 to 2-5. I think that match might have been all ticket - 17,000 if my memory serves me well - as that was the first time Kerry had crossed the border.

We beat them again in Davitt Park and I recall we scored six goals, with Johnny Corvan and Mickey McDonald to the fore.


Championship though was a different matter!

I was in Davitt Park for that game and the story was the entire Kerry team spent the night before in James Mc Cartan's pub in Donaghcloney. Allegedly it took several strong men to carry the Bomber to bed!

Also remember there being a Hunger Strike demonstration at half time.

I have no doubt that Kerry had a nice weekend, winning wasn't an important part of it. However, I did hear that they had overnighted in Monaghan, which seems extremely plausible, and Armagh had sent a few retired stalwarts to buy them drinks.
Title: Re: A question for the over 50s
Post by: passedit on September 09, 2019, 03:51:44 PM
When they changed from the old north/south split in the National League to a single divison one in 1980, Armagh got to play Kerry in Lurgan and hammered them. It did feel good to beat the All Ireland champions even if it felt that the result would be different in the championship.

Yes, finished something like 1-17 to 2-5. I think that match might have been all ticket - 17,000 if my memory serves me well - as that was the first time Kerry had crossed the border.

We beat them again in Davitt Park and I recall we scored six goals, with Johnny Corvan and Mickey McDonald to the fore.


Championship though was a different matter!

I was in Davitt Park for that game and the story was the entire Kerry team spent the night before in James Mc Cartan's pub in Donaghcloney. Allegedly it took several strong men to carry the Bomber to bed!

Also remember there being a Hunger Strike demonstration at half time.

I have no doubt that Kerry had a nice weekend, winning wasn't an important part of it. However, I did hear that they had overnighted in Monaghan, which seems extremely plausible, and Armagh had sent a few retired stalwarts to buy them drinks.

I'd agree that your story is probably more plausible, I will say however that I was warned before the throw in that the Bomber might not be in tip top condition due to the reasons I mentioned.

Edit it is also worth considering that Mr Liston was assisted to bed on more than one trip north.
Title: Re: A question for the over 50s
Post by: blanketattack on September 10, 2019, 10:22:19 AM
Kerry only played 3 games in 1980 to win an AI! Yes 3! So they had their advantages then!

Michael O'Heir was good for the time. But time has shown how limited he really was.  A lot of recycling of catch phrases.

The thing with the Kerry team was there was only a trickle of new blood here and there during their dominance, so the general public were just waiting for that group to get old.

The same can not be said of Dublin.

Kerry playing only 3 games in 1980 is often thrown up as being some huge advantage to Kerry and I never understand why.
1980 was the only year this happened (bar the early years of the GAA perhaps).
Was it really such an advantage in 1980 not to have played that extra game against Clare compared to the year before and after?
i.e. 1979 Kerry 9-21 1-9 Clare
1981 Kerry 4-17 0-6 Clare

And were those extra games for Dublin against Carlow and Wexford such a hindrance to them?

I would have said it was a disadvantage to go straight into a provincial final in July as your first game of the c'ship, á la the Galway hurlers.
Title: Re: A question for the over 50s
Post by: Orior on September 14, 2019, 05:30:52 AM
I wasn’t around for o’Hehir’s commentaries, but by God, that voice of his was very hard to listen to.

One of the best commentators ever.

I trust you are looking forward to the replay?
Title: Re: A question for the over 50s
Post by: mad tan on September 16, 2019, 08:42:19 PM
Great Times. Was working with a crowd of Rossies 1980. They thought they won win it the Bomber missed the final. They had the songs wrote, the flags up you name it. But in fairness they were a very good team [ I would never admit that to the crew I was working with] Harry Keegan was some corner back, Earley and the Jigger. What ever about Kerry winning 4 in a row that group of players should at least have won 1. So for that group of Roscommon players thanks for the memories. And for the F--kers I was working with I hope life treated ye well and ye are all as happy as I am.
Title: Re: A question for the over 50s
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 16, 2019, 11:12:35 PM
It might have been, but people seemed to enjoy it more back then.

Nostalgia ain't what it used to be.
Title: Re: A question for the over 50s
Post by: Ball Hopper on September 17, 2019, 12:29:26 AM
I wasn’t around for o’Hehir’s commentaries, but by God, that voice of his was very hard to listen to.

One of the best commentators ever.

I trust you are looking forward to the replay?

What O'Hehir did was paint a picture first.  Describe the pitch, the backgorund views (if any) weather conditions, the crowd, the team colours (even if everyone knew them).

I say this with certainty from the first time I had one of those new fandango transistor radios at a Grounds Tournament game in Killarney.  I was fairly young but remember it like yesterday. 

I thought it would be a great idea to stand on the terrace underneath the press box, with my transistor tuned to RTE (that was all we could get, except for Radio Luxembourg 208 at night).  Anyways, RTE control send it to Micheal who goes into his standard patter of descriptions.

The wind direction into the scoreboard end and not too strong, the Reeks in all their majesty off to the south-west, teams on the field...Kerry in their green and gold with Roscommon in primroses....

But wait a minute sez I, as I looked south-west.  A dampish cloudy day...you could no more see the Reeks than you could see The Alps.  Didn't stop O'Hehir though.

He painted a picture...background first and let the game flow onto his well-prepared canvas thereafter.

A true master.