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GAA Discussion => GAA Discussion => Topic started by: kerryforsam19 on June 10, 2019, 07:34:01 PM

Title: split the dubs in 4
Post by: kerryforsam19 on June 10, 2019, 07:34:01 PM
Great read of Ewan McKenna article. Best GAA journalist. Calls it as he sees it.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/ewan-mackenna-soon-therell-be-nothing-left-to-do-but-split-dublin-into-four-and-that-will-be-a-sorry-and-shameful-day-38198471.html
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: Hound on June 10, 2019, 07:58:21 PM
Good one by Spewan Scum on Friday:

Had a great 140 characters on Twitter explaining how the Irish soccer team are so bad. Then Duffy buried a header. Then Spewan deleted his tweet! Class act.

Not to mention accusing Katie Taylor’s team of paying off judges, Anthony Joshua of being on drugs and horrendous digs at Mickey Harte after Tyrone’s loss. And that’s just in the last week or so.

There’s plenty of decent people who write about Dublin’s advantages. Better to quote them than this scuttery scum.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: mup on June 10, 2019, 08:07:11 PM
Good one by Spewan Scum on Friday:

Had a great 140 characters on Twitter explaining how the Irish soccer team are so bad. Then Duffy buried a header. Then Spewan deleted his tweet! Class act.

Not to mention accusing Katie Taylor’s team of paying off judges, Anthony Joshua of being on drugs and horrendous digs at Mickey Harte after Tyrone’s loss. And that’s just in the last week or so.

There’s plenty of decent people who write about Dublin’s advantages. Better to quote them than this scuttery scum.

Wonderful to see he has you Dubs rightly rattled.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: imtommygunn on June 10, 2019, 08:11:31 PM
He is a very spiteful and bitter person. Very hard to pay much attention to a lot of stuff he writes.

Keep being cynical on everything and eventually you will be right.

As said outbursts on Taylor and Harte were ridiculous.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: GetOverTheBar on June 10, 2019, 08:16:38 PM
He is a very spiteful and bitter person. Very hard to pay much attention to a lot of stuff he writes.

Keep being cynical on everything and eventually you will be right.

As said outbursts on Taylor and Harte were ridiculous.

His eluding to Conor Murray missing half of the last season for reasons other than injury was another low point.

Low life journalist.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: tonto1888 on June 10, 2019, 08:23:08 PM
Good one by Spewan Scum on Friday:

Had a great 140 characters on Twitter explaining how the Irish soccer team are so bad. Then Duffy buried a header. Then Spewan deleted his tweet! Class act.

Not to mention accusing Katie Taylor’s team of paying off judges, Anthony Joshua of being on drugs and horrendous digs at Mickey Harte after Tyrone’s loss. And that’s just in the last week or so.

There’s plenty of decent people who write about Dublin’s advantages. Better to quote them than this scuttery scum.

Wonderful to see he has you Dubs rightly rattled.

McKenna is an absolute gobshite. Did you actually read hounds last sentence there
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: Hound on June 10, 2019, 08:24:49 PM
He is a very spiteful and bitter person. Very hard to pay much attention to a lot of stuff he writes.

Keep being cynical on everything and eventually you will be right.

As said outbursts on Taylor and Harte were ridiculous.

His eluding to Conor Murray missing half of the last season for reasons other than injury was another low point.

Low life journalist.
That wasn’t a low point, that’s the depths he continually trawls.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: mup on June 10, 2019, 08:30:08 PM
Good one by Spewan Scum on Friday:

Had a great 140 characters on Twitter explaining how the Irish soccer team are so bad. Then Duffy buried a header. Then Spewan deleted his tweet! Class act.

Not to mention accusing Katie Taylor’s team of paying off judges, Anthony Joshua of being on drugs and horrendous digs at Mickey Harte after Tyrone’s loss. And that’s just in the last week or so.

There’s plenty of decent people who write about Dublin’s advantages. Better to quote them than this scuttery scum.

Wonderful to see he has you Dubs rightly rattled.

McKenna is an absolute gobshite. Did you actually read hounds last sentence there

Nope I didn't read it. I gave up after the name calling started.

Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: tonto1888 on June 10, 2019, 08:59:45 PM
Good one by Spewan Scum on Friday:

Had a great 140 characters on Twitter explaining how the Irish soccer team are so bad. Then Duffy buried a header. Then Spewan deleted his tweet! Class act.

Not to mention accusing Katie Taylor’s team of paying off judges, Anthony Joshua of being on drugs and horrendous digs at Mickey Harte after Tyrone’s loss. And that’s just in the last week or so.

There’s plenty of decent people who write about Dublin’s advantages. Better to quote them than this scuttery scum.

Wonderful to see he has you Dubs rightly rattled.

McKenna is an absolute gobshite. Did you actually read hounds last sentence there

Nope I didn't read it. I gave up after the name calling started.

Maybe try again then
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: mup on June 10, 2019, 09:01:50 PM
Good one by Spewan Scum on Friday:

Had a great 140 characters on Twitter explaining how the Irish soccer team are so bad. Then Duffy buried a header. Then Spewan deleted his tweet! Class act.

Not to mention accusing Katie Taylor’s team of paying off judges, Anthony Joshua of being on drugs and horrendous digs at Mickey Harte after Tyrone’s loss. And that’s just in the last week or so.

There’s plenty of decent people who write about Dublin’s advantages. Better to quote them than this scuttery scum.

Wonderful to see he has you Dubs rightly rattled.

McKenna is an absolute gobshite. Did you actually read hounds last sentence there

Nope I didn't read it. I gave up after the name calling started.

Maybe try again then

No don't think I'll bother thanks.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: tonto1888 on June 10, 2019, 09:04:49 PM
Good one by Spewan Scum on Friday:

Had a great 140 characters on Twitter explaining how the Irish soccer team are so bad. Then Duffy buried a header. Then Spewan deleted his tweet! Class act.

Not to mention accusing Katie Taylor’s team of paying off judges, Anthony Joshua of being on drugs and horrendous digs at Mickey Harte after Tyrone’s loss. And that’s just in the last week or so.

There’s plenty of decent people who write about Dublin’s advantages. Better to quote them than this scuttery scum.

Wonderful to see he has you Dubs rightly rattled.

McKenna is an absolute gobshite. Did you actually read hounds last sentence there

Nope I didn't read it. I gave up after the name calling started.

Maybe try again then

No don't think I'll bother thanks.

Of course not. That would show you that you were wrong
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: Maiden1 on June 10, 2019, 09:16:08 PM
Would all Dublin fans be again a Dublin North and Dublin South team? I'd say 1 or both teams would go close to winning an AI (and give other teams a bit more of a chance).
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: BennyCake on June 10, 2019, 09:17:47 PM
Well, we have a West Meath, so why not a West Dublin?
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: Hound on June 10, 2019, 09:48:06 PM
Would all Dublin fans be again a Dublin North and Dublin South team? I'd say 1 or both teams would go close to winning an AI (and give other teams a bit more of a chance).
Well county identity is obviously a huge part of GAA, so most people are instantly against splitting their own county, or combining their county with someone else.

Splitting Dublin is worthy of consideration. But would it solve a whole lot other than helping Kerry win more All Irelands?

Equally worthy of consideration would be to play the league as is, but combine teams for the All Ireland. Two six team divisions, top 2 in each division makes the semis.

Dublin
Kerry
Cork
Rest of Munster
Mayo/Sligo/Leitrim
Galway/Ros
South Leinster
North Leinster
Tyrone/Derry
Donegal/Fermanagh
Cavan/Monaghan
Armagh/Down/Antrim

Every player and every fan could have aspirations of winning Sam, although cyclically, some would not contend.
The above split is just top of the head (Cork on their own, but they should be challenging even if they’re nowhere near at the moment) but I’m sure there’d be a better way of doing it, but as an idea it would be better to try it with hurling first where the disparity is even greater.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: Ball Hopper on June 10, 2019, 09:51:13 PM
Would all Dublin fans be again a Dublin North and Dublin South team? I'd say 1 or both teams would go close to winning an AI (and give other teams a bit more of a chance).
Well county identity is obviously a huge part of GAA, so most people are instantly against splitting their own county, or combining their county with someone else.

Splitting Dublin is worthy of consideration. But would it solve a whole lot other than helping Kerry win more All Irelands?

Equally worthy of consideration would be to play the league as is, but combine teams for the All Ireland. Two six team divisions, top 2 in each division makes the semis.

Dublin
Kerry
Cork
Rest of Munster
Mayo/Sligo/Leitrim
Galway/Ros
South Leinster
North Leinster
Tyrone/Derry
Donegal/Fermanagh
Cavan/Monaghan
Armagh/Down/Antrim

Every player and every fan could have aspirations of winning Sam, although cyclically, some would not contend.
The above split is just top of the head (Cork on their own, but they should be challenging even if they’re nowhere near at the moment) but I’m sure there’d be a better way of doing it, but as an idea it would be better to try it with hurling first where the disparity is even greater.

Forget the matches...fellas would pay to watch training three times a week in that combination.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: mup on June 10, 2019, 09:53:10 PM
Good one by Spewan Scum on Friday:

Had a great 140 characters on Twitter explaining how the Irish soccer team are so bad. Then Duffy buried a header. Then Spewan deleted his tweet! Class act.

Not to mention accusing Katie Taylor’s team of paying off judges, Anthony Joshua of being on drugs and horrendous digs at Mickey Harte after Tyrone’s loss. And that’s just in the last week or so.

There’s plenty of decent people who write about Dublin’s advantages. Better to quote them than this scuttery scum.

Wonderful to see he has you Dubs rightly rattled.

McKenna is an absolute gobshite. Did you actually read hounds last sentence there

Nope I didn't read it. I gave up after the name calling started.

Maybe try again then

No don't think I'll bother thanks.

Of course not. That would show you that you were wrong

Wrong about someone who doesn't agree with someone elses views so they call him scum? I don't think so.

Does that make him more credible? Makes him look worse imo.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: joemamas on June 10, 2019, 09:54:22 PM
why do people keep taking this eejits bait.

Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: kerryforsam19 on June 10, 2019, 09:58:05 PM
why do people keep taking this eejits bait.

Joesph Mc if nothing to contribute jog on lad. Ewan is rightly highlighting Dublin advantages.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: tonto1888 on June 10, 2019, 10:15:19 PM
why do people keep taking this eejits bait.

Which ejit?
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: highorlow on June 10, 2019, 11:19:15 PM
Can’t get that article, any chance of a copy and paste?
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: weareros on June 10, 2019, 11:27:55 PM
why do people keep taking this eejits bait.

Joesph Mc if nothing to contribute jog on lad. Ewan is rightly highlighting Dublin advantages.

Dublin has advantages but so do many other counties over their neighbours. Counties with bigger populations have 1) player pick advantage 2) larger population to contribute to funding 3) more local business to contribute to funding 4) more likely to have a local minister due to population size who will also contribute to funding.

Look at the populations and wealth of Kerry, Galway, Mayo compared to say a Leitrim. The big counties will complain about Dublin but never seem that aware of their inbuilt advantages compared to several smaller counties. How would Kerry or Mayo  like it if Leitrim called for those counties to be divided in 5 so they have a level playing field.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: highorlow on June 10, 2019, 11:30:14 PM
Dublin might get beaten this year yet.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: From the Bunker on June 10, 2019, 11:33:14 PM
Dublin might get beaten this year yet.

Next you'll be inventing some one who could pull it off!
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: TheGreatest on June 11, 2019, 08:43:43 AM
Mckenna is the Gemma o Doherty of sport journalism.

Hes an imature child.

Splitting dubs up is an old one, it will never happen. Like Kilkenny raise the standard in Hurling and everyone eventually caught up, the same will happen in football. The Dubs, making the game a better one....
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: Rossfan on June 11, 2019, 09:15:54 AM
Kilkenny hasn't got 1.3 million population.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: TheGreatest on June 11, 2019, 09:39:52 AM
Kilkenny hasn't got 1.3 million population.

Yes, you are correct, they dont.

Dublin football senior player pool is adult football divisions 1-4 (Senior and Inter teams (Minus Senior club second teams in div 3,4 etc)), thats the playing population, in hurling its less.

All 1.3 milliion people are men, aged 18-32, that are good at playing gaelic football!!!
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: priceyreilly on June 11, 2019, 07:21:36 PM
Kilkenny hasn't got 1.3 million population.

Yes, you are correct, they dont.

Dublin football senior player pool is adult football divisions 1-4 (Senior and Inter teams (Minus Senior club second teams in div 3,4 etc)), thats the playing population, in hurling its less.

All 1.3 milliion people are men, aged 18-32, that are good at playing gaelic football!!!

Every county has women, children, people who play other sports etc. What they don't have is millions upon millions of euro pumped into their accounts to create players. Doped to the gills and now you lot won't even go to matches. This McKenna fella is right. Time to split you open and take the money off you.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: rosnarun on June 11, 2019, 07:50:44 PM
Would all Dublin fans be again a Dublin North and Dublin South team? I'd say 1 or both teams would go close to winning an AI (and give other teams a bit more of a chance).
Well county identity is obviously a huge part of GAA, so most people are instantly against splitting their own county, or combining their county with someone else.

Splitting Dublin is worthy of consideration. But would it solve a whole lot other than helping Kerry win more All Irelands?

Equally worthy of consideration would be to play the league as is, but combine teams for the All Ireland. Two six team divisions, top 2 in each division makes the semis.

Dublin
Kerry
Cork
Rest of Munster
Mayo/Sligo/Leitrim
Galway/Ros
South Leinster
North Leinster
Tyrone/Derry
Donegal/Fermanagh
Cavan/Monaghan
Armagh/Down/Antrim

Every player and every fan could have aspirations of winning Sam, although cyclically, some would not contend.
The above split is just top of the head (Cork on their own, but they should be challenging even if they’re nowhere near at the moment) but I’m sure there’d be a better way of doing it, but as an idea it would be better to try it with hurling first where the disparity is even greater.

Forget the matches...fellas would pay to watch training three times a week in that combination.
back in the Real world

I think  the idea making Dublin a province would be a good one.
the jackeens would still have a team to support when the winners emerge give them the right to wear the navy and blue
spiltting dublin in to its counties is hardly unfair dunleary  sounth dublin  Fingal and the City of course you  would have to do the same for Derry , galway Belfast cork Limerick and Waterford, and I nearly forgot Tipperary
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: irish345 on June 11, 2019, 08:09:09 PM
would the 4 then have to arrange thier own county club championships then aswell then enter leinster

If dublin became a province would the teams only play semi finals and a final and then be in super 8

If you want to split dublin youll have to get rid of provincial intercounty championships
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: sekibanki on June 11, 2019, 09:35:39 PM
If you want to split dublin youll have to get rid of provincial intercounty championships
People are calling for that anyway. Two of the four provincial championships are utter farce, anyway.

Personally, I'd like to see them scrap the pre-season, disconnect the provincial championships from the All-Ireland, and give them to the Provincial board to run and profit from as they see fit. So if the Ulster teams want to go at it hammer and tongs, let them, if Connacht want their teams to go fundraising every year in NYC, let them, and if Leinster want to split Dublin into quarters, just for Leinster, let them. The all-Ireland should be separate, and have a clean - and tiered - structure.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: Hound on June 11, 2019, 09:59:37 PM
Again, thread after thread after thread about how the GDO money has somehow created these magnificent players like Cluxton and McCarthy and Fenton and Mannion etc etc (amazing achievement given none of the GDOs ever coach these players) and not a single thread on how Kerry manage to 5 minor titles in a row - what are they doing right?  What are you doing wrong?

I know it’s only a dopey minority who drive all these dopey threads, but pricey, mup, etc. your salty tears are lovely. Keep crying. Please.

Until the government come up with a situation where so many culchies don’t continue to come to live in Dublin and give their free time to coach at the great clubs in Dublin, pay their club subs to Dublin clubs and give us their children to play in blue, we are going to continue to be there or thereabouts.

But in the meantime, it’s Kerry’s youth system that other counties should at least attempt to have a look at.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: kerryforsam19 on June 11, 2019, 10:02:16 PM
Dublin get most games at home
And even if they are beaten, they get another shot at it. Dublin could lose twice and still win the AI
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: irish345 on June 11, 2019, 10:06:31 PM
do you think having an ulster championship played instead of mckenna with 2 groups of 4 and two teams advancing to semi finals and final would be a good idea make open draw so any 4 teams can be in any group  there would have to be a preliminary game beetween the worse two teams in ulster to get into the group stage and every year you could have the worse team has to play the preliminary next season or the two bottom teams have to play each other with the loser having to play preliminary next season there be less dead rubbers with that because coming 3rd in group means you avoid having to play again and potential not be in the group stage next season 
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: kerryforsam19 on June 11, 2019, 10:07:19 PM
Again, thread after thread after thread about how the GDO money has somehow created these magnificent players like Cluxton and McCarthy and Fenton and Mannion etc etc (amazing achievement given none of the GDOs ever coach these players) and not a single thread on how Kerry manage to 5 minor titles in a row - what are they doing right?  What are you doing wrong?

I know it’s only a dopey minority who drive all these dopey threads, but pricey, mup, etc. your salty tears are lovely. Keep crying. Please.

Until the government come up with a situation where so many culchies don’t continue to come to live in Dublin and give their free time to coach at the great clubs in Dublin, pay their club subs to Dublin clubs and give us their children to play in blue, we are going to continue to be there or thereabouts.

But in the meantime, it’s Kerry’s youth system that other counties should at least attempt to have a look at.

Dublin were the GAA's special project though. And their huge investment paid off but only short term. Massive crowds followed the increased success off the back of the investment by taxpayers and GAA members. If you give huge resources to one county with the biggest population, then, of course, they're going to push ahead. Now though, the crowds are dwindling, they still have to finance their structures but they are not getting a return.
It's their own fault really. As I said, short term thinking. Now they're desperately trying things like the super 8's and forming an elite championship to make up the shortfall. Basically, they had a great product on their hands, a highly competitive championship where many teams were winning provincial and All Ireland's. They completely destroyed this. Unfortunately it will be hard to see a recovery.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: BennyCake on June 11, 2019, 10:09:05 PM
Dublin get most games at home
And even if they are beaten, they get another shot at it. Dublin could lose twice and still win the AI

Or three times, if they play Laois.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: BennyCake on June 11, 2019, 10:22:04 PM
Again, thread after thread after thread about how the GDO money has somehow created these magnificent players like Cluxton and McCarthy and Fenton and Mannion etc etc (amazing achievement given none of the GDOs ever coach these players) and not a single thread on how Kerry manage to 5 minor titles in a row - what are they doing right?  What are you doing wrong?

I know it’s only a dopey minority who drive all these dopey threads, but pricey, mup, etc. your salty tears are lovely. Keep crying. Please.

Until the government come up with a situation where so many culchies don’t continue to come to live in Dublin and give their free time to coach at the great clubs in Dublin, pay their club subs to Dublin clubs and give us their children to play in blue, we are going to continue to be there or thereabouts.

But in the meantime, it’s Kerry’s youth system that other counties should at least attempt to have a look at.

Dublin were the GAA's special project though. And their huge investment paid off but only short term. Massive crowds followed the increased success off the back of the investment by taxpayers and GAA members. If you give huge resources to one county with the biggest population, then, of course, they're going to push ahead. Now though, the crowds are dwindling, they still have to finance their structures but they are not getting a return.
It's their own fault really. As I said, short term thinking. Now they're desperately trying things like the super 8's and forming an elite championship to make up the shortfall. Basically, they had a great product on their hands, a highly competitive championship where many teams were winning provincial and All Ireland's. They completely destroyed this. Unfortunately it will be hard to see a recovery.

You’re absolutely right. The 90’s were probably the best decade for football. New winners of Sam, and 8 winners in 10 years. Lots of teams on an even keel. Ulster had 6 title winners including Cavan after 30 years, Clare won in Munster, Leitrim in Connacht; Offaly, Kildare, made breakthroughs in Leinster.

You had Dublin Meath clashing many times, Kerry rising again, Galway too, Down Derry Donegal winning Sam. You had a new Croke Park, and grounds being redeveloped, more matches on TV, bigger crowds. The GAA had a great product, but they blew it.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: priceyreilly on June 11, 2019, 10:47:39 PM
Again, thread after thread after thread about how the GDO money has somehow created these magnificent players like Cluxton and McCarthy and Fenton and Mannion etc etc (amazing achievement given none of the GDOs ever coach these players) and not a single thread on how Kerry manage to 5 minor titles in a row - what are they doing right?  What are you doing wrong?

I know it’s only a dopey minority who drive all these dopey threads, but pricey, mup, etc. your salty tears are lovely. Keep crying. Please.

Until the government come up with a situation where so many culchies don’t continue to come to live in Dublin and give their free time to coach at the great clubs in Dublin, pay their club subs to Dublin clubs and give us their children to play in blue, we are going to continue to be there or thereabouts.

But in the meantime, it’s Kerry’s youth system that other counties should at least attempt to have a look at.

Explain how Dublin have won 54 provincial and All Ireland titles in all age groups and codes since the millions started to flow into the Dublin county board accounts since 2005? They won 14 in the 15 years before that.

The GDO's do their work in attracting numbers from local schools to clubs, improving standards in clubs and the like. This has seen an increase in club titles from 4 in the 15 years prior to the doping to 17 since then. But what you don't mention is that the GDO's also assist in identifying talent. This is the key that the likes of you want hidden.

The elite talent spotted in clubs are put into development squads, here's where they are put on a development program. This program is not designed for them to peak at 17 or 18, it's to produce senior talent. These players have the best facilities available to them, top quality strength and conditioning coaches, the latest in sports science, it's basically a professional set up. Similar to Leinster rugby.

The problem for you is that there are people from around the country in Dublin, they are involved in GAA and they know what's going on. You are absolutely sickened when you hear about your doping because you know it's true. As they say, the truth hurts. Without the doping you'd still be an also-ran in football and a minnow in hurling.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: omaghjoe on June 11, 2019, 11:00:18 PM
In all seriousness the Dubs need split and the entire competition format should be revamped to level the playing field

Dubs could still play in a Railway Cup competition which could be revamped with Dubs, East and West Ulster, Munster, Rest of Leinster & Connacht

Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: magpie seanie on June 11, 2019, 11:10:34 PM
Would all Dublin fans be again a Dublin North and Dublin South team? I'd say 1 or both teams would go close to winning an AI (and give other teams a bit more of a chance).
Well county identity is obviously a huge part of GAA, so most people are instantly against splitting their own county, or combining their county with someone else.

Splitting Dublin is worthy of consideration. But would it solve a whole lot other than helping Kerry win more All Irelands?

Equally worthy of consideration would be to play the league as is, but combine teams for the All Ireland. Two six team divisions, top 2 in each division makes the semis.

Dublin
Kerry
Cork
Rest of Munster
Mayo/Sligo/Leitrim
Galway/Ros
South Leinster
North Leinster
Tyrone/Derry
Donegal/Fermanagh
Cavan/Monaghan
Armagh/Down/Antrim

Every player and every fan could have aspirations of winning Sam, although cyclically, some would not contend.
The above split is just top of the head (Cork on their own, but they should be challenging even if they’re nowhere near at the moment) but I’m sure there’d be a better way of doing it, but as an idea it would be better to try it with hurling first where the disparity is even greater.


So instead of splitting one county, we amalgamate all but 3? To avoid doing the obvious, we discommode 28 counties who will not field in the All Ireland football chapionship? This is what the GPA and the advocates of professionalism want. I wouldn't be arsed going to see any games in a competition like this.

What chance does a young kid in Dublin have of representing their county? My cousin's daughter has gone through round after round of trials for Dublin u-13 girls.

Painting everyone who raises these questions as a crank or nutter isn't accurate or fair. I really admire what Dublin GAA has done and think the Dublin senior team are absolutely brilliant and will go down in history as one of if not the best ever. I think the coaching and tactics are ahead of everyone else (which money can't be blamed for) and they have pioneeered many aspect of gaelic football, the vast majority positive. However, I do think their success has bubbled up issues that should have been addressed a long time ago. When Peter Quinn's committee came up with the split proposals back in the 90's he was right. I understand county loyalty but I'm not convinced the negatives of the proposal outweigh the potential gains.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: moysider on June 11, 2019, 11:34:45 PM
Dublin cannot be split. The onus on the GAA is to allow other teams to get to compete at that level consistently. That will take initiative but there is no way the Dublin genie can be put back in the bottle. They have advanced the game to a new level and to dumb them down in some way would be more damaging than the perceived damage they are supposed to be doing now.

There are dominant teams in other sports but I don't think anybody is suggesting the All-Black brand should be scrapped and play 3 NZ teams instead to give other countries a chance! Say a Maori team ( non -starter because it would be racist), and North and South Island team. It doesn't wash and the Dublin brand is as important in Gaelic football.

The obvious answer - and it will eventually happen - is a degree of professionalism that should allow 6-8 teams compete with Dublin. A 2 tier system is imminent and professionalism will follow as sure as night follows day. Gombeen boards will have to get in the marketing men and push on.
 
There is money to be invested and made here and it has to happen and the whole game will benefit from knock-on effect as has been seen in Soccer and Rugby even though at the time player's wages in soccer and any professionalism in rugby were supposed to ruin things. They skyrocketed in popularity. 10-12 years ago Connacht Rugby was almost jettisoned because of concerns about its viability.

As things stand I believe there would be enough fan base and sponsorship in counties like Kerry, Donegal, Tyron, Mayo, Kildare and Meath to drive this. Maybe others but dual counties like Cork and Galway seem to have an awful 'fickle' supporter tradition.

Imo, there is no going back as regards the development of a sport if it wants to survive in any meaningful way.

The excellence of this Dublin team should be matched in the future but that can't happen if there is no more Dublin.

If we are to save the old game we need to allow other teams to get better and not make Dublin poorer.  Most sport does not work like that apart from horse racing where the better horses carry more weight.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: sekibanki on June 11, 2019, 11:43:24 PM
Say a Maori team ( non -starter because it would be racist), .
You mean like the Maori All Blacks? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Māori_All_Blacks
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: omaghjoe on June 11, 2019, 11:45:05 PM
No one is making Dublin poorer if they are giving them a new elite competition (as in a revamped Interpro) to compete in. In fact it should make them better as the level of their opposition will be higher. And by putting the Dubs into that competition it would breathe new lift into it

It will also allow the rest of the counties to compete at a level that is moderately fair to each other.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: moysider on June 11, 2019, 11:46:10 PM
Would all Dublin fans be again a Dublin North and Dublin South team? I'd say 1 or both teams would go close to winning an AI (and give other teams a bit more of a chance).
Well county identity is obviously a huge part of GAA, so most people are instantly against splitting their own county, or combining their county with someone else.

Splitting Dublin is worthy of consideration. But would it solve a whole lot other than helping Kerry win more All Irelands?

Equally worthy of consideration would be to play the league as is, but combine teams for the All Ireland. Two six team divisions, top 2 in each division makes the semis.

Dublin
Kerry
Cork
Rest of Munster
Mayo/Sligo/Leitrim
Galway/Ros
South Leinster
North Leinster
Tyrone/Derry
Donegal/Fermanagh
Cavan/Monaghan
Armagh/Down/Antrim

Every player and every fan could have aspirations of winning Sam, although cyclically, some would not contend.
The above split is just top of the head (Cork on their own, but they should be challenging even if they’re nowhere near at the moment) but I’m sure there’d be a better way of doing it, but as an idea it would be better to try it with hurling first where the disparity is even greater.


So instead of splitting one county, we amalgamate all but 3? To avoid doing the obvious, we discommode 28 counties who will not field in the All Ireland football chapionship? This is what the GPA and the advocates of professionalism want. I wouldn't be arsed going to see any games in a competition like this.

What chance does a young kid in Dublin have of representing their county? My cousin's daughter has gone through round after round of trials for Dublin u-13 girls.

Painting everyone who raises these questions as a crank or nutter isn't accurate or fair. I really admire what Dublin GAA has done and think the Dublin senior team are absolutely brilliant and will go down in history as one of if not the best ever. I think the coaching and tactics are ahead of everyone else (which money can't be blamed for) and they have pioneeered many aspect of gaelic football, the vast majority positive. However, I do think their success has bubbled up issues that should have been addressed a long time ago. When Peter Quinn's committee came up with the split proposals back in the 90's he was right. I understand county loyalty but I'm not convinced the negatives of the proposal outweigh the potential gains.

What chance does any kid have of getting to an elite level in any sport - anywhere?
Playing hurling for Kilkenny?
Playing for Brazil? Yet they play on.
All the kids that play basketball in USA - how many play NBA?
All the kids that do athletics in this country? I'm sure most would love to represent Ireland in Olympics but for 99.999% of them, they haven't a chance.
Same for kids that go out and try and play snooker, golf, tennis, ride horses etc.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: moysider on June 11, 2019, 11:55:20 PM
No one is making Dublin poorer if they are giving them a new elite competition (as in a revamped Interpro) to compete in. In fact it should make them better as the level of their opposition will be higher. And by putting the Dubs into that competition it would breathe new lift into it

It will also allow the rest of the counties to compete at a level that is moderately fair to each other.

I wouldn't cross the road to see an Interpro. The Railway Cup died for a reason. Zero stomach for it. I'm old enough to have seen likes of Paddy Cullen and Jimmy Keaveney play Railway Cup, and it was great but an Interpro in football is about as likely to get popular support as Irish TV bringing back The Riardons, Quicksilver and Mart and Market.
Need to go forward.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: omaghjoe on June 12, 2019, 12:02:35 AM
No one is making Dublin poorer if they are giving them a new elite competition (as in a revamped Interpro) to compete in. In fact it should make them better as the level of their opposition will be higher. And by putting the Dubs into that competition it would breathe new lift into it

It will also allow the rest of the counties to compete at a level that is moderately fair to each other.

I wouldn't cross the road to see an Interpro. The Railway Cup died for a reason. Zero stomach for it. I'm old enough to have seen likes of Paddy Cullen and Jimmy Keaveney play Railway Cup, and it was great but an Interpro in football is about as likely to get popular support as Irish TV bringing back The Riardons, Quicksilver and Mart and Market.
Need to go forward.

It died because there wasnt the will to market it.. If the Dubs were in it there would be renewed interest....2 groups of 3 with a final would have far more potential that the flogging to death of counties in the super 8s
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: moysider on June 12, 2019, 12:12:27 AM
No one is making Dublin poorer if they are giving them a new elite competition (as in a revamped Interpro) to compete in. In fact it should make them better as the level of their opposition will be higher. And by putting the Dubs into that competition it would breathe new lift into it

It will also allow the rest of the counties to compete at a level that is moderately fair to each other.

I wouldn't cross the road to see an Interpro. The Railway Cup died for a reason. Zero stomach for it. I'm old enough to have seen likes of Paddy Cullen and Jimmy Keaveney play Railway Cup, and it was great but an Interpro in football is about as likely to get popular support as Irish TV bringing back The Riardons, Quicksilver and Mart and Market.
Need to go forward.

It died because there wasnt the will to market it.. If the Dubs were in it there would be renewed interest....2 groups of 3 with a final would have far more potential that the flogging to death of counties in the super 8s

Disagree. There was no will to market it because it was no longer a runner. I cannot imagine anybody getting excited by a Connacht team taking on Dublin. I cannot identify with a Connacht football team. Back in the day they were just exhibition games and people attended because there was a chance to see great players that you wouldn't otherwise see. Nobody was going home after punching the air and going ' yeah, we beat Munster or whoever'
 As a Mayo fan I want to see Mayo challenge Dublin any time we can. I love the Connacht crest and flag but not what I want to be carrying into a football game v Dubs. It's a non-runner so no point debating it.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: omaghjoe on June 12, 2019, 12:41:18 AM
No one is making Dublin poorer if they are giving them a new elite competition (as in a revamped Interpro) to compete in. In fact it should make them better as the level of their opposition will be higher. And by putting the Dubs into that competition it would breathe new lift into it

It will also allow the rest of the counties to compete at a level that is moderately fair to each other.

I wouldn't cross the road to see an Interpro. The Railway Cup died for a reason. Zero stomach for it. I'm old enough to have seen likes of Paddy Cullen and Jimmy Keaveney play Railway Cup, and it was great but an Interpro in football is about as likely to get popular support as Irish TV bringing back The Riardons, Quicksilver and Mart and Market.
Need to go forward.

It died because there wasnt the will to market it.. If the Dubs were in it there would be renewed interest....2 groups of 3 with a final would have far more potential that the flogging to death of counties in the super 8s

Disagree. There was no will to market it because it was no longer a runner. I cannot imagine anybody getting excited by a Connacht team taking on Dublin. I cannot identify with a Connacht football team. Back in the day they were just exhibition games and people attended because there was a chance to see great players that you wouldn't otherwise see. Nobody was going home after punching the air and going ' yeah, we beat Munster or whoever'
 As a Mayo fan I want to see Mayo challenge Dublin any time we can. I love the Connacht crest and flag but not what I want to be carrying into a football game v Dubs. It's a non-runner so no point debating it.

Ah I see well your doing a good job there!

People would get excited about it if it was done right.... sure every professional sport in the world manufactures team loyalty and so on. Sure look at professional ruby in Ireland and Wales those teams were more or less manufactured and now they have legions of loyal fans, not to mention American Sports franchises.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: TheGreatest on June 12, 2019, 08:38:22 AM
Does this include splitting the Dublin Hurler into 4? and underage? or clubs team not allowed to compete in outside of Dublin or is it just the footballers because they are winning?


Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: magpie seanie on June 12, 2019, 08:47:14 AM
Dublin cannot be split. The onus on the GAA is to allow other teams to get to compete at that level consistently. That will take initiative but there is no way the Dublin genie can be put back in the bottle. They have advanced the game to a new level and to dumb them down in some way would be more damaging than the perceived damage they are supposed to be doing now.

There are dominant teams in other sports but I don't think anybody is suggesting the All-Black brand should be scrapped and play 3 NZ teams instead to give other countries a chance! Say a Maori team ( non -starter because it would be racist), and North and South Island team. It doesn't wash and the Dublin brand is as important in Gaelic football.

The obvious answer - and it will eventually happen - is a degree of professionalism that should allow 6-8 teams compete with Dublin. A 2 tier system is imminent and professionalism will follow as sure as night follows day. Gombeen boards will have to get in the marketing men and push on.
 
There is money to be invested and made here and it has to happen and the whole game will benefit from knock-on effect as has been seen in Soccer and Rugby even though at the time player's wages in soccer and any professionalism in rugby were supposed to ruin things. They skyrocketed in popularity. 10-12 years ago Connacht Rugby was almost jettisoned because of concerns about its viability.

As things stand I believe there would be enough fan base and sponsorship in counties like Kerry, Donegal, Tyron, Mayo, Kildare and Meath to drive this. Maybe others but dual counties like Cork and Galway seem to have an awful 'fickle' supporter tradition.

Imo, there is no going back as regards the development of a sport if it wants to survive in any meaningful way.

The excellence of this Dublin team should be matched in the future but that can't happen if there is no more Dublin.

If we are to save the old game we need to allow other teams to get better and not make Dublin poorer.  Most sport does not work like that apart from horse racing where the better horses carry more weight.


So the solution is professionalism. 7-9 counties break away and fcuk the rest? Will we be allowed supplty players to our overlords?

Like Hound's amalgamations solution it's completely against the ethos of the GAA and what the organisation is supposed to stand for. People keep making this mistake. The Intercounty game is the icing on the cake - it's not the whole cake. If the icing is going to ruin the cake, you change the icing.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: magpie seanie on June 12, 2019, 08:53:23 AM
Would all Dublin fans be again a Dublin North and Dublin South team? I'd say 1 or both teams would go close to winning an AI (and give other teams a bit more of a chance).
Well county identity is obviously a huge part of GAA, so most people are instantly against splitting their own county, or combining their county with someone else.

Splitting Dublin is worthy of consideration. But would it solve a whole lot other than helping Kerry win more All Irelands?

Equally worthy of consideration would be to play the league as is, but combine teams for the All Ireland. Two six team divisions, top 2 in each division makes the semis.

Dublin
Kerry
Cork
Rest of Munster
Mayo/Sligo/Leitrim
Galway/Ros
South Leinster
North Leinster
Tyrone/Derry
Donegal/Fermanagh
Cavan/Monaghan
Armagh/Down/Antrim

Every player and every fan could have aspirations of winning Sam, although cyclically, some would not contend.
The above split is just top of the head (Cork on their own, but they should be challenging even if they’re nowhere near at the moment) but I’m sure there’d be a better way of doing it, but as an idea it would be better to try it with hurling first where the disparity is even greater.


So instead of splitting one county, we amalgamate all but 3? To avoid doing the obvious, we discommode 28 counties who will not field in the All Ireland football chapionship? This is what the GPA and the advocates of professionalism want. I wouldn't be arsed going to see any games in a competition like this.

What chance does a young kid in Dublin have of representing their county? My cousin's daughter has gone through round after round of trials for Dublin u-13 girls.

Painting everyone who raises these questions as a crank or nutter isn't accurate or fair. I really admire what Dublin GAA has done and think the Dublin senior team are absolutely brilliant and will go down in history as one of if not the best ever. I think the coaching and tactics are ahead of everyone else (which money can't be blamed for) and they have pioneeered many aspect of gaelic football, the vast majority positive. However, I do think their success has bubbled up issues that should have been addressed a long time ago. When Peter Quinn's committee came up with the split proposals back in the 90's he was right. I understand county loyalty but I'm not convinced the negatives of the proposal outweigh the potential gains.

What chance does any kid have of getting to an elite level in any sport - anywhere?
Playing hurling for Kilkenny?
Playing for Brazil? Yet they play on.
All the kids that play basketball in USA - how many play NBA?
All the kids that do athletics in this country? I'm sure most would love to represent Ireland in Olympics but for 99.999% of them, they haven't a chance.
Same for kids that go out and try and play snooker, golf, tennis, ride horses etc.


There's a far better chance for a kid in Kilkenny to make the county team than a kid in Dublin to make the county team. Unless you don't actually understand the populations of both counties. It's blatantly obvious Dublin have at least 50 if not more county standard players (their 3rd team is competitive and has won the O'Byrne Cup in recent times). Most counties are lucky to have 15-20.

I'm not interested with comparisons with professional sports even though kids and parents are recklessly sold this impossible dream with regularity.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: sekibanki on June 12, 2019, 09:19:07 AM
Does this include splitting the Dublin Hurler into 4? and underage? or clubs team not allowed to compete in outside of Dublin or is it just the footballers because they are winning?
The hurlers were split into two before, for a different reason. Same with Down.
Overall, the hurlers are more open to experimenting with structures. There effectively isn't any true provincial championship in hurling any longer, and its arguably better for it.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: TheGreatest on June 12, 2019, 10:33:25 AM
Does this include splitting the Dublin Hurler into 4? and underage? or clubs team not allowed to compete in outside of Dublin or is it just the footballers because they are winning?
The hurlers were split into two before, for a different reason. Same with Down.
Overall, the hurlers are more open to experimenting with structures. There effectively isn't any true provincial championship in hurling any longer, and its arguably better for it.

I agree, the football championship structure needs to replaced, Senior , inter, junior, like the nearly every sporting competition in the world, there are different levels.


Enjoy:

https://gaablogs1916.wordpress.com/2018/09/10/ewan-mackenna-the-gaa-worlds-equivalent-of-a-flat-earther/
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: moysider on June 12, 2019, 10:49:10 AM
Would all Dublin fans be again a Dublin North and Dublin South team? I'd say 1 or both teams would go close to winning an AI (and give other teams a bit more of a chance).
Well county identity is obviously a huge part of GAA, so most people are instantly against splitting their own county, or combining their county with someone else.

Splitting Dublin is worthy of consideration. But would it solve a whole lot other than helping Kerry win more All Irelands?

Equally worthy of consideration would be to play the league as is, but combine teams for the All Ireland. Two six team divisions, top 2 in each division makes the semis.

Dublin
Kerry
Cork
Rest of Munster
Mayo/Sligo/Leitrim
Galway/Ros
South Leinster
North Leinster
Tyrone/Derry
Donegal/Fermanagh
Cavan/Monaghan
Armagh/Down/Antrim

Every player and every fan could have aspirations of winning Sam, although cyclically, some would not contend.
The above split is just top of the head (Cork on their own, but they should be challenging even if they’re nowhere near at the moment) but I’m sure there’d be a better way of doing it, but as an idea it would be better to try it with hurling first where the disparity is even greater.


So instead of splitting one county, we amalgamate all but 3? To avoid doing the obvious, we discommode 28 counties who will not field in the All Ireland football chapionship? This is what the GPA and the advocates of professionalism want. I wouldn't be arsed going to see any games in a competition like this.

What chance does a young kid in Dublin have of representing their county? My cousin's daughter has gone through round after round of trials for Dublin u-13 girls.

Painting everyone who raises these questions as a crank or nutter isn't accurate or fair. I really admire what Dublin GAA has done and think the Dublin senior team are absolutely brilliant and will go down in history as one of if not the best ever. I think the coaching and tactics are ahead of everyone else (which money can't be blamed for) and they have pioneeered many aspect of gaelic football, the vast majority positive. However, I do think their success has bubbled up issues that should have been addressed a long time ago. When Peter Quinn's committee came up with the split proposals back in the 90's he was right. I understand county loyalty but I'm not convinced the negatives of the proposal outweigh the potential gains.

What chance does any kid have of getting to an elite level in any sport - anywhere?
Playing hurling for Kilkenny?
Playing for Brazil? Yet they play on.
All the kids that play basketball in USA - how many play NBA?
All the kids that do athletics in this country? I'm sure most would love to represent Ireland in Olympics but for 99.999% of them, they haven't a chance.
Same for kids that go out and try and play snooker, golf, tennis, ride horses etc.


There's a far better chance for a kid in Kilkenny to make the county team than a kid in Dublin to make the county team. Unless you don't actually understand the populations of both counties. It's blatantly obvious Dublin have at least 50 if not more county standard players (their 3rd team is competitive and has won the O'Byrne Cup in recent times). Most counties are lucky to have 15-20.

I'm not interested with comparisons with professional sports even though kids and parents are recklessly sold this impossible dream with regularity.

If it was just a numbers game Ireland should be able to complete with England in rugby but we regularly beat them. Why? Because our structures are as good as theirs. I know you don’t like comparing to professional sports but .........
If Dublin are ahead because of numbers alone they should have been there decades ago. If it’s because of other reasons then those advantages need to be applied to other teams too. Reigning Dublin in is not the way forward imo.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: Rossfan on June 12, 2019, 11:12:01 AM
So we give Laythrum €1m and a load of GPO/GDAs or Whatever and they'll do 4 in a row ::)
Of course it's a numbers game.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: Owenmoresider on June 12, 2019, 12:38:57 PM
Dublin cannot be split. The onus on the GAA is to allow other teams to get to compete at that level consistently. That will take initiative but there is no way the Dublin genie can be put back in the bottle. They have advanced the game to a new level and to dumb them down in some way would be more damaging than the perceived damage they are supposed to be doing now.

There are dominant teams in other sports but I don't think anybody is suggesting the All-Black brand should be scrapped and play 3 NZ teams instead to give other countries a chance! Say a Maori team ( non -starter because it would be racist), and North and South Island team. It doesn't wash and the Dublin brand is as important in Gaelic football.

The obvious answer - and it will eventually happen - is a degree of professionalism that should allow 6-8 teams compete with Dublin. A 2 tier system is imminent and professionalism will follow as sure as night follows day. Gombeen boards will have to get in the marketing men and push on.
 
There is money to be invested and made here and it has to happen and the whole game will benefit from knock-on effect as has been seen in Soccer and Rugby even though at the time player's wages in soccer and any professionalism in rugby were supposed to ruin things. They skyrocketed in popularity. 10-12 years ago Connacht Rugby was almost jettisoned because of concerns about its viability.

As things stand I believe there would be enough fan base and sponsorship in counties like Kerry, Donegal, Tyron, Mayo, Kildare and Meath to drive this. Maybe others but dual counties like Cork and Galway seem to have an awful 'fickle' supporter tradition.

Imo, there is no going back as regards the development of a sport if it wants to survive in any meaningful way.

The excellence of this Dublin team should be matched in the future but that can't happen if there is no more Dublin.

If we are to save the old game we need to allow other teams to get better and not make Dublin poorer.  Most sport does not work like that apart from horse racing where the better horses carry more weight.
Easy for someone to suggest this kind of future setup who can be fairly confident in the knowledge that their team are likely to be part of the party. Screw the rest of us looking in from the outside.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: moysider on June 13, 2019, 12:33:22 AM
Dublin cannot be split. The onus on the GAA is to allow other teams to get to compete at that level consistently. That will take initiative but there is no way the Dublin genie can be put back in the bottle. They have advanced the game to a new level and to dumb them down in some way would be more damaging than the perceived damage they are supposed to be doing now.

There are dominant teams in other sports but I don't think anybody is suggesting the All-Black brand should be scrapped and play 3 NZ teams instead to give other countries a chance! Say a Maori team ( non -starter because it would be racist), and North and South Island team. It doesn't wash and the Dublin brand is as important in Gaelic football.

The obvious answer - and it will eventually happen - is a degree of professionalism that should allow 6-8 teams compete with Dublin. A 2 tier system is imminent and professionalism will follow as sure as night follows day. Gombeen boards will have to get in the marketing men and push on.
 
There is money to be invested and made here and it has to happen and the whole game will benefit from knock-on effect as has been seen in Soccer and Rugby even though at the time player's wages in soccer and any professionalism in rugby were supposed to ruin things. They skyrocketed in popularity. 10-12 years ago Connacht Rugby was almost jettisoned because of concerns about its viability.

As things stand I believe there would be enough fan base and sponsorship in counties like Kerry, Donegal, Tyron, Mayo, Kildare and Meath to drive this. Maybe others but dual counties like Cork and Galway seem to have an awful 'fickle' supporter tradition.

Imo, there is no going back as regards the development of a sport if it wants to survive in any meaningful way.

The excellence of this Dublin team should be matched in the future but that can't happen if there is no more Dublin.

If we are to save the old game we need to allow other teams to get better and not make Dublin poorer.  Most sport does not work like that apart from horse racing where the better horses carry more weight.
Easy for someone to suggest this kind of future setup who can be fairly confident in the knowledge that their team are likely to be part of the party. Screw the rest of us looking in from the outside.

No. A lot of teams already looking-in  for years in current system. If Sam Maguire is to be a realistic objective for every county then a lot more counties, other than Dublin,  would needed to be divided into 2/3/4 to give the counties of smaller population a shot.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: moysider on June 13, 2019, 01:09:57 AM
So we give Laythrum €1m and a load of GPO/GDAs or Whatever and they'll do 4 in a row ::)
Of course it's a numbers game.

Ah now Rossfan! Your're a gas man altogether.

GDA = Grangegorman Development Agency or Greater Dublin Area?
GPO = General Post Office?

I'm a bit confused here. Some people are putting Dublin's dominance down to numbers. For others it is funding and home advantage.

The numbers will always kill the Leitrims of this  world but that did not start in 2011. So picking Leitrim to make a point is a bit naughty.
My point is that several counties -including your own - could compete, if they had similar resources as the Dublin team. Other than numbers that can be done.
 The point about it being so hard to get to play for the Dubs now as an excuse is risible. If a kid wants to play for Dublin, he wants to play for Dublin - not a divisional team. Dublin is an identity.  Same as Roscommon. Same as Leitrim.
Where I would look at maybe freeing up the Dublin numbers is players with parentage and even grand-parentage being able to play for another county. if they choose to do so. Cox. outa Kerry did it and you'd wonder wtf. was Eamonn Fitzmaurice gawking at down the years.
 Of course a lot of dubs with culchie parents will have no interest. but some will.
This might cheer you up a bit Ros.. A kid  from around here in Mayo development squads would rather play for Roscommon- ( an hour away from Ballagh. before the jibes come in)- because his parents are Ros to the core. He's a damn good footballer too and his cousin plays for Mayo.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: Rossfan on June 13, 2019, 09:15:55 AM
Last 3 small Counties to win Sam -
Offaly 36 years ago
Cavan 67 years ago
Ros 75 years ago.
We can't split Dublin because young lads mightnt be able to dream of playing for Fingal but the same young lad could dream of playing for 4 Counties where his grandparents came from?
How many Ros folk would get excited if we won something with about 20 "heritage" players on a panel of 30.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: clarshack on June 13, 2019, 10:00:39 AM
How many Dublin based League Of Ireland Soccer teams are there? If there was only one soccer team allowed to operate out of Dublin how much superior would that team become over the rest of the teams in the league?
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: johnnycool on June 13, 2019, 10:35:58 AM
Does this include splitting the Dublin Hurler into 4? and underage? or clubs team not allowed to compete in outside of Dublin or is it just the footballers because they are winning?
The hurlers were split into two before, for a different reason. Same with Down.
Overall, the hurlers are more open to experimenting with structures. There effectively isn't any true provincial championship in hurling any longer, and its arguably better for it.

Had to think about that one for a while and whilst you're correct to an extent Finglas and South Down were treated as development squads where hurlers from these areas were afforded a place in the lower hurling leagues but also hurlers of the required standard played with the first team, so not entirely a split as others would interpret it.


Whilst Hurling counties make up about 9 or so counties these changes needed ratified by a majority of the other counties who lets be honest couldn't give a shite either way what impacts the top tier hurling counties impose on their own lower level hurling teams as can be seen by how there's no relegation or even the relegated team in Div1B gets another bite at staying up if they can beat the Div2 winners.
Doesn't happen anywhere else in the GAA world.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on June 13, 2019, 10:44:13 AM
Again, thread after thread after thread about how the GDO money has somehow created these magnificent players like Cluxton and McCarthy and Fenton and Mannion etc etc (amazing achievement given none of the GDOs ever coach these players) and not a single thread on how Kerry manage to 5 minor titles in a row - what are they doing right?  What are you doing wrong?

I know it’s only a dopey minority who drive all these dopey threads, but pricey, mup, etc. your salty tears are lovely. Keep crying. Please.

Until the government come up with a situation where so many culchies don’t continue to come to live in Dublin and give their free time to coach at the great clubs in Dublin, pay their club subs to Dublin clubs and give us their children to play in blue, we are going to continue to be there or thereabouts.

But in the meantime, it’s Kerry’s youth system that other counties should at least attempt to have a look at.

live in Dublin - Guilty
give their free time to coach at the great clubs in Dublin - Guilty
pay their club subs to Dublin clubs - Guilty
give us their children to play in blue - NOT Guilty your honour, they're already asking for Westmeath tops  8) Will be ferrying them up and down to development squads if this holds  ;D
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: Rossfan on June 13, 2019, 03:36:56 PM
More evidence of the link between HQ and Dublin...
Ciarán Kilkenny is "Brand Ambassador" for the GAA's Official Statistics Partners  :o
They shouldcone out into the open and just hire the whole panel as Professional footballers.
At least that would be straight forward honest.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: Lar Naparka on June 13, 2019, 04:06:57 PM
Again, thread after thread after thread about how the GDO money has somehow created these magnificent players like Cluxton and McCarthy and Fenton and Mannion etc etc (amazing achievement given none of the GDOs ever coach these players) and not a single thread on how Kerry manage to 5 minor titles in a row - what are they doing right?  What are you doing wrong?

I know it’s only a dopey minority who drive all these dopey threads, but pricey, mup, etc. your salty tears are lovely. Keep crying. Please.

Until the government come up with a situation where so many culchies don’t continue to come to live in Dublin and give their free time to coach at the great clubs in Dublin, pay their club subs to Dublin clubs and give us their children to play in blue, we are going to continue to be there or thereabouts.

But in the meantime, it’s Kerry’s youth system that other counties should at least attempt to have a look at.
Fair play, Hound, you are dead right.
Unfortunately, that’s not going to happen anytime soon. Angela Merkel and Jean- Luc, not to mention Boris will have far more say in how the future of Ireland shapes up than you and I and even Leo.
But don’t wish too hard in case you get what you are looking for.
If Culchies started staying at home, there is no way football in Dublin would continue to thrive.
Around half the present Mayo panel live in Dublin. Odds are that most will settle down here and will lose contact with the clubs they grew up with. If they have kids, they will join Dublin clubs and this is a double whammy where rural clubs are concerned.
As it is, it takes an incredible amount of fund money to keep the Dublin club scene ticking over. It’s basket case economics the whole way.
For starters, you have one county board and all associated structures (no. of clubs, competitions etc.) So you have approximately 100 clubs of various shapes and sizes to cater for roughly one third of the population of the state. By comparison, Cavan has 41 clubs (according to Cavan GAA) and a population of 52,000. There is a far higher percentage of the Cavan population involved in GAA clubs than is the case with Dublin. The same goes for every other county in the land and that includes the black north.
So a Dublin club with 30 or so juvenile teams will only field one senior side. The consequent drop out rate is horrendous.
I’d genuinely like to think that the GDO schemes will help to popularise the game in Dublin but I don’t see this happening because of the bottleneck at the top. The INTO/CBs etc. had boys’ teams in every school in Dublin and if you pass by Parnell Park this time of year you’ll find literally thousands of youngsters  turning up to support their schools and yet, you know as well as I do that only a tiny percentage of school players will maintain links with local clubs when they leave primary school.
Loads of reasons for this and some are outside the control of the GAA but the bottleneck issue is not going to go away.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: Rossfan on June 13, 2019, 04:34:57 PM
Good post Lar but Cavan had 75,000 in 2016 Census  ;)
Dublin with 1.3 million people gas 39,000 registered GAA players -3%
Roscommon 65,000 (61k under Ros Co Board) - 6,500 players-10%.
Dublin may have maximised their strength at County level but in doing so have almost fkd up Inter County Football and are way behind on participation levels.
4 Co Boards, New Clubs and smaller clubs is the way to go.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: irish345 on June 14, 2019, 02:29:35 AM
Dublin are not miles ahead of everybody at hurling so would split only applied to football
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: TheGreatest on June 14, 2019, 09:15:01 AM
Dublin are not miles ahead of everybody at hurling so would split only applied to football

Sure it only matters when your winning.

This thread pops up a couple of times a year. Dublin will never be split gentlement so you will have to deal with it.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: trailer on June 14, 2019, 09:19:32 AM
The idea behind splitting Dublin arose first in the 90s when they weren't winning. The idea being that a large population were not engaged with GAA at all and splitting the County would leave coaching and games development easier to be administered. The idea had nothing to do with them winning.

If we only play our games to win then we will not get enjoyment from them and we will ultimately be disappointed. Only a select few teams can win any competition in any given year.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: Farrandeelin on June 14, 2019, 09:21:44 AM
Dublin are not miles ahead of everybody at hurling so would split only applied to football

Sure it only matters when your winning.

This thread pops up a couple of times a year. Dublin will never be split gentlement so you will have to deal with it.

Do you think if Jim Gavin and the Dublin footballers part ways this autumn would Dublin be.as good next year? In my opinion they wouldn't.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: BennyCake on June 14, 2019, 09:33:43 AM
When did Fingal hurlers stop competing in the NHL? And why?
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: manfromdelmonte on June 14, 2019, 09:43:40 AM
how many new GAA clubs have been established in Dublin since 2001?
clubs are actually folding or amalgamating

Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: Dinny Breen on June 14, 2019, 10:06:35 AM
Rovers play Bohs tonight, Derby game loads of interest....4 Inter-county teams in Dublin would similarly generate a lot of interest. County DLRD would be hated immediately by the other three counties.

Saw this on Wiki

Quote
Dún Laoghaire–Rathdown (Irish: Dún Laoghaire–Ráth an Dúin[2]) is a county in Ireland. It is part of the Dublin Region in the province of Leinster.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%BAn_Laoghaire%E2%80%93Rathdown (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%BAn_Laoghaire%E2%80%93Rathdown)
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: Maiden1 on June 14, 2019, 11:07:00 AM
Dublin I would say is one of the least supported county teams in Ireland.  36000 (assume 25000 Dublin supporters is less than 2% of the population of greater Dublin) for a Leinster semi final were most supporters can get walk, hop on a bus, the dart, luas to Croke Park is very low compared to say Leitrim bringing 10000 (1 in 3 people) to the division 4 league final.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: magpie seanie on June 14, 2019, 12:05:24 PM
GAA participation in Dublin is far below the national average. If the coaching and development money wasn't invested in Dublin, gaelic games would be on life support. They'd still have a good county team but not the seemingly indestructible side of the present. The unfortunate side effect of the relative increase in participation in Dublin GAA is the dominance of the Dubs in football (though I attribute a huge amount of this to Jim Gavin's management).

I think the split has to happen if we want to increase participation rates in the Dublin area. And I'm more concerned with that than the intercounty game.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: TheGreatest on June 14, 2019, 01:21:09 PM
Dublin are not miles ahead of everybody at hurling so would split only applied to football

Sure it only matters when your winning.

This thread pops up a couple of times a year. Dublin will never be split gentlement so you will have to deal with it.

Do you think if Jim Gavin and the Dublin footballers part ways this autumn would Dublin be.as good next year? In my opinion they wouldn't.

I think your right.

My biggest fear in sport is the day Jim Gavin steps down, I pray and hope he does a Brian Cody on it and is there for a long long time.

Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: TheGreatest on June 14, 2019, 01:24:03 PM
When did Fingal hurlers stop competing in the NHL? And why?

2013, not sure why it was discontinued.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fingal_hurling_team

Anyone remember the South Down hurling team trialled during the same peirod?
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: TheGreatest on June 14, 2019, 01:29:51 PM
how many new GAA clubs have been established in Dublin since 2001?
clubs are actually folding or amalgamating

The last big senior  club started in Dublin was Castleknock. 1998. There are smaller clubs formed in junior level like Ranelagh gaels i think founded around 2003.

There is a lot of amalgamting at underage level due to player numbers, nothing at adult level although there is talk of certain clubs coming together, our country cousins tend to keep clubs afloat at adult level.




Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: TheGreatest on June 14, 2019, 01:31:55 PM
Rovers play Bohs tonight, Derby game loads of interest....4 Inter-county teams in Dublin would similarly generate a lot of interest. County DLRD would be hated immediately by the other three counties.

Saw this on Wiki

Quote
Dún Laoghaire–Rathdown (Irish: Dún Laoghaire–Ráth an Dúin[2]) is a county in Ireland. It is part of the Dublin Region in the province of Leinster.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%BAn_Laoghaire%E2%80%93Rathdown (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%BAn_Laoghaire%E2%80%93Rathdown)

To the Dublin GAA community and hardcore support, there will only be one team, personally i would never support a Dublin regional team, if it was split id pack in the support, focus more on club.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: TheGreatest on June 14, 2019, 01:35:56 PM
Dublin I would say is one of the least supported county teams in Ireland.  36000 (assume 25000 Dublin supporters is less than 2% of the population of greater Dublin) for a Leinster semi final were most supporters can get walk, hop on a bus, the dart, luas to Croke Park is very low compared to say Leitrim bringing 10000 (1 in 3 people) to the division 4 league final.

This is also correct, there is a hardcore fooball support of about 15-25K, it varies, then you will have the selective match fan, then you have the event junkies.

Thats why when the Spawell stadium was in discussion, it was only a capicity of 25K.
Title: Re: split the dubs in 4
Post by: magpie seanie on June 14, 2019, 01:51:10 PM
Rovers play Bohs tonight, Derby game loads of interest....4 Inter-county teams in Dublin would similarly generate a lot of interest. County DLRD would be hated immediately by the other three counties.

Saw this on Wiki

Quote
Dún Laoghaire–Rathdown (Irish: Dún Laoghaire–Ráth an Dúin[2]) is a county in Ireland. It is part of the Dublin Region in the province of Leinster.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%BAn_Laoghaire%E2%80%93Rathdown (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%BAn_Laoghaire%E2%80%93Rathdown)

To the Dublin GAA community and hardcore support, there will only be one team, personally i would never support a Dublin regional team, if it was split id pack in the support, focus more on club.


I get that and it's how I'd feel if Sligo get amalgamated with some other collection of paupers to provide cannon fodder for the big teams but what happens when a lad you coach or know makes that team. Will you go then? It's difficult. The intercounty game though is only a representative level. It has outgrown it's initial aim and is cannabilising the association.