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GAA Discussion => Hurling Discussion => Topic started by: manfromdelmonte on May 21, 2019, 07:58:31 AM

Title: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: manfromdelmonte on May 21, 2019, 07:58:31 AM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/hurling-needs-heavier-sliotar-925583.html (https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/hurling-needs-heavier-sliotar-925583.html)

Galway’s ability, two years ago, to win an All-Ireland title without finding the net in their last four matches was a peak season for point-scoring but then it was a sign of the times. On average, All-Ireland winning teams are scoring six points more now than they were in the 1980s or 1990s. After beating Cork and Waterford this month, Tipperary are now averaging an aggregate of 29 points per game.
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: burdizzo on May 21, 2019, 09:03:01 AM
Completely agree.
Though I think a bigger rim on the ball would also do the job?
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 21, 2019, 01:46:15 PM
Is it not the same weight for both teams? Whether hitting the ball extra distance or not both teams are playing with the same ball and have to get the ball on target. Anyone can hit a ball, hitting it with the wind or against you still have to find the target.

Teams/players evolve as do the equipment thats used in playing the sport, are golfers hitting the ball further than 30 years ago?

Denis Taylor was talking about his playing career and how when starting out if he hit a break of 65 then he was hitting hi average highest break, again the game/players/equipment changes

I didnt see anything negetive in Sundays games to say we need a heavier ball
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: Antrim Coaster on May 21, 2019, 02:28:44 PM
Was there not an issue around 10-15 years ago regarding sliotars that were much lighter than normal?

I recall a few of the top players, including DJ Carey, giving off about the fact that the keeper could puck the ball as far as the opposition 21/20 yard/metre line.

I thought the powers that be were going to correct that.

In fact when you have Enda Rowland of Laois and Martin Stackpoole from Kerry launching missiles to land on the 21 yard line it would seem that the GAA never implemented the original heavier sliotar.
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: manfromdelmonte on May 21, 2019, 02:54:57 PM
all of the rules seem to be in advantage of the attacking team now

players being let carry the ball for 5-9 steps
throwing of the ball - I thought there has to be a clear striking motion of the hand?
if a forward runs into a defender they are never pulled for charging
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: Franko on May 21, 2019, 05:12:47 PM
Hurling (at the top level ONLY) is going through a golden age at the minute.

Why would you want to try to fix something which is so obviously not broken?
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 21, 2019, 06:05:24 PM
all of the rules seem to be in advantage of the attacking team now

players being let carry the ball for 5-9 steps
throwing of the ball - I thought there has to be a clear striking motion of the hand?
if a forward runs into a defender they are never pulled for charging

Running into a player is not charging, charging into a player is charging, needs to lift both feet and aggressively charge a player. The steps thing needs looked at and the hand pass for sure. Refs have been told for years if you can’t see a ‘foul’ technical or otherwise you can’t call it on a hunch, the definition has changed on the handpass though, clear striking motion. But hey the game at that level is phenomenal hard to call, unless you are sitting on the armchair and watching in slow mo
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: The Boy Wonder on May 21, 2019, 08:29:59 PM
I'm in full agreement that the game would be best served by reverting to a heavier sliotar. The ball used today travels so far that you would think they're hitting a tennis ball. Teams are knocking up basketball scores and the bloody ball is ping-ponging from one end of the field to the other  :(

Hurling was my first love but I'm disenamoured with today's game - the main reasons are the light sliotar, the absence of ground hurling and first time pulling on the ball. How many time do you see groups of players mullocking over the ball, trying to get it into their hand instead of driving the thing up the field (to hell with the possession game). Back in the 80's you could get a spell of ground hurling that would electrify the crowd.



Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 21, 2019, 08:42:50 PM
Hurling does not need changing! Any player driving a ball through a ruck not knowing where it’s going is clueless, it generally lands into the opposing players hands who drives it forward under no pressure!

I’m nearly sure most of this is a wind up ::)
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: lenny on May 21, 2019, 08:48:36 PM
Hurling does not need changing! Any player driving a ball through a ruck not knowing where it’s going is clueless, it generally lands into the opposing players hands who drives it forward under no pressure!

I’m nearly sure most of this is a wind up ::)

I know they’re working on it but I would love to see a luminous brighter sliotar. Most games are totally spoiled on tv trying to follow the ball which is impossible to see most of the time. The golf tracer would work great also for free kicks.
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: The Boy Wonder on May 21, 2019, 09:02:28 PM
There is a sameness creeping into today's game, i.e. it can be hard to distinguish different teams' styles of play and indeed different players' styles of play.
It was the unique skills and traits of individual players that stood out up to recent years. Where are the D J Careys, Brian Whelehans etc. of today ?
Yes, there are great hurlers playing the game today. My point is that today's ball in hand game limits the scope for great hurlers to display their full range of skills.
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: clonadmad on May 21, 2019, 09:28:18 PM
Leave Hurling alone FFS

If it’s not broken don’t fix it

Instead of pricking around with this non issue,instead focus on getting the likes of Carlow,Laois,Kildare,Meath,Westmeath up to a point where they can compete with the top 8 or 9

And for the love of god,will someone stage an intervention with Offaly hurling

Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: marty34 on May 21, 2019, 09:31:58 PM
I'm in full agreement that the game would be best served by reverting to a heavier sliotar. The ball used today travels so far that you would think they're hitting a tennis ball. Teams are knocking up basketball scores and the bloody ball is ping-ponging from one end of the field to the other  :(

Hurling was my first love but I'm disenamoured with today's game - the main reasons are the light sliotar, the absence of ground hurling and first time pulling on the ball. How many time do you see groups of players mullocking over the ball, trying to get it into their hand instead of driving the thing up the field (to hell with the possession game). Back in the 80's you could get a spell of ground hurling that would electrify the crowd.

In games nowadays, there are still huge passages of play which are absorbing - hooks and blocks at full pelt then somebody gets a score after 2mins of hell for leather hurling.

Couldn't beat it - no need to change what is already fantastic.

I remember reading an article about this last winter.  The teams can pick their own brand of sliotars for the championship season.  Therefore there will be a huge variation in distances the sliotars travel.  That's why opposition try to 'pinch' the keepers' sliotar bag and chuck it away.

The article also stated that there'll be yellow sliotars available shortly - with red stitching as it's been trialled and is best for the human eye.  They will also be a chip in each sliotar, which, using an app, can check the weight and all sliotars will be standardised.

Can anyone else remember this article?
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: The Boy Wonder on May 22, 2019, 12:30:37 AM
Leave Hurling alone FFS

If it’s not broken don’t fix it

Instead of pricking around with this non issue,instead focus on getting the likes of Carlow,Laois,Kildare,Meath,Westmeath up to a point where they can compete with the top 8 or 9

And for the love of god,will someone stage an intervention with Offaly hurling

I don't like this talk of intervention - look at where that got us with the injection of funds into Dublin !

The best means of improving "2nd tier" hurling counties is for these counties to engage top coaches from established counties
- obviously there needs to be raw material to work with and top coaches are not two a penny.
Examples where this has worked in the past:
Dermot Healy was key to Offaly's breakthrough in 1981
Georgie Leahy, RIP, did great work with Laois in the 1980s.



Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 22, 2019, 01:20:14 AM
Hurling (at the top level ONLY) is going through a golden age at the minute.

Why would you want to try to fix something which is so obviously not broken?

Completely agree. There's damn all wrong with the game and it's never been more popular.
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: lenny on May 22, 2019, 07:29:29 AM
I'm in full agreement that the game would be best served by reverting to a heavier sliotar. The ball used today travels so far that you would think they're hitting a tennis ball. Teams are knocking up basketball scores and the bloody ball is ping-ponging from one end of the field to the other  :(

Hurling was my first love but I'm disenamoured with today's game - the main reasons are the light sliotar, the absence of ground hurling and first time pulling on the ball. How many time do you see groups of players mullocking over the ball, trying to get it into their hand instead of driving the thing up the field (to hell with the possession game). Back in the 80's you could get a spell of ground hurling that would electrify the crowd.

In games nowadays, there are still huge passages of play which are absorbing - hooks and blocks at full pelt then somebody gets a score after 2mins of hell for leather hurling.

Couldn't beat it - no need to change what is already fantastic.

I remember reading an article about this last winter.  The teams can pick their own brand of sliotars for the championship season.  Therefore there will be a huge variation in distances the sliotars travel.  That's why opposition try to 'pinch' the keepers' sliotar bag and chuck it away.

The article also stated that there'll be yellow sliotars available shortly - with red stitching as it's been trialled and is best for the human eye.  They will also be a chip in each sliotar, which, using an app, can check the weight and all sliotars will be standardised.

Can anyone else remember this article?

The chip in it sounds like a great idea. That should make it easier for tv cameras to follow it and hopefully use the pro tracer to show the trajectory of sidelines and frees.
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: manfromdelmonte on May 22, 2019, 08:10:30 AM
Hurling (at the top level ONLY) is going through a golden age at the minute.

Why would you want to try to fix something which is so obviously not broken?

Completely agree. There's damn all wrong with the game and it's never been more popular.
is it more popular though? more popular where? on tv?
the hurling clubs of Longford, Wicklow, Roscommon, Offaly might say differently

Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: clonadmad on May 22, 2019, 08:23:54 AM
Leave Hurling alone FFS

If it’s not broken don’t fix it

Instead of pricking around with this non issue,instead focus on getting the likes of Carlow,Laois,Kildare,Meath,Westmeath up to a point where they can compete with the top 8 or 9

And for the love of god,will someone stage an intervention with Offaly hurling

I don't like this talk of intervention - look at where that got us with the injection of funds into Dublin !

The best means of improving "2nd tier" hurling counties is for these counties to engage top coaches from established counties
- obviously there needs to be raw material to work with and top coaches are not two a penny.
Examples where this has worked in the past:
Dermot Healy was key to Offaly's breakthrough in 1981
Georgie Leahy, RIP, did great work with Laois in the 1980s.

I wasn’t suggesting a Dublin sized financial support for Offaly,they’ve already had a bailout in relation to O’Connor Park

Best outside coaches cost money,the money needs to spent at grassroots level in terms of more GDA’s and support for hurling in those counties

Healy would have had very little to work with at adult level if the likes of Bro.Dennis hadnt done the work at juvenile level and post primary level
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: Franko on May 22, 2019, 08:46:36 AM
Hurling (at the top level ONLY) is going through a golden age at the minute.

Why would you want to try to fix something which is so obviously not broken?

Completely agree. There's damn all wrong with the game and it's never been more popular.
is it more popular though? more popular where? on tv?
the hurling clubs of Longford, Wicklow, Roscommon, Offaly might say differently

1.  See bold.

2.  How exactly would a heavier sliothar help this situation?
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 23, 2019, 12:08:49 AM
Hurling (at the top level ONLY) is going through a golden age at the minute.

Why would you want to try to fix something which is so obviously not broken?

Completely agree. There's damn all wrong with the game and it's never been more popular.
is it more popular though? more popular where? on tv?
the hurling clubs of Longford, Wicklow, Roscommon, Offaly might say differently

If we were using GAA football as an example then its far more enjoyable to watch. Even a blind man can see that
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: manfromdelmonte on May 23, 2019, 11:06:23 AM
Hurling (at the top level ONLY) is going through a golden age at the minute.

Why would you want to try to fix something which is so obviously not broken?

Completely agree. There's damn all wrong with the game and it's never been more popular.
is it more popular though? more popular where? on tv?
the hurling clubs of Longford, Wicklow, Roscommon, Offaly might say differently

If we were using GAA football as an example then its far more enjoyable to watch. Even a blind man can see that
sure Waterford v Tipp was barely competitive last weekend in the hurling

how many football championship games have RTE actually shown this year???
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: Franko on May 23, 2019, 04:23:21 PM
Hurling (at the top level ONLY) is going through a golden age at the minute.

Why would you want to try to fix something which is so obviously not broken?

Completely agree. There's damn all wrong with the game and it's never been more popular.
is it more popular though? more popular where? on tv?
the hurling clubs of Longford, Wicklow, Roscommon, Offaly might say differently

If we were using GAA football as an example then its far more enjoyable to watch. Even a blind man can see that
sure Waterford v Tipp was barely competitive last weekend in the hurling

how many football championship games have RTE actually shown this year???

OK, 3 things;

1 - What point do you think you are making by bringing up this one-off game?

2 - RTE don't show many football games before the super 8's

3 - The reason they do this is because the early rounds of the football are generally unwatchable compared to your average Munster hurling clash.

Well done on proving everyone else right here.

Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: The Boy Wonder on May 25, 2019, 03:02:10 PM
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/martin-breheny-a-fivepoint-goal-two-points-for-other-scores-and-an-end-to-rugbyisation-of-hurling-38146640.html (https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/martin-breheny-a-fivepoint-goal-two-points-for-other-scores-and-an-end-to-rugbyisation-of-hurling-38146640.html)

Don't shoot the messenger (Martin Breheny) - many will agree that the message is very pertinent.
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 25, 2019, 03:35:34 PM
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/martin-breheny-a-fivepoint-goal-two-points-for-other-scores-and-an-end-to-rugbyisation-of-hurling-38146640.html (https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/martin-breheny-a-fivepoint-goal-two-points-for-other-scores-and-an-end-to-rugbyisation-of-hurling-38146640.html)

Don't shoot the messenger (Martin Breheny) - many will agree that the message is very pertinent.

Many? You and one other person on here. Who da f**k drop pucks a ball? And why would you do it ? Volleying in the air is pointless unless you’re on the edge of the square, gaining possession and passing and shooting is a skill, plenty hooking and blocking going on in all games I’ve watched, high fielding for me is one of the best skills about and plenty on show!

Anyone who wants to make changes for hurling based on a ‘lighter’ ball is bunkers, games and tactics evolve, I agree the standard size and weight of ball should be same across the board, even agree the hurls should be within a set standard also.
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: manfromdelmonte on May 25, 2019, 04:50:19 PM
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/martin-breheny-a-fivepoint-goal-two-points-for-other-scores-and-an-end-to-rugbyisation-of-hurling-38146640.html (https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/martin-breheny-a-fivepoint-goal-two-points-for-other-scores-and-an-end-to-rugbyisation-of-hurling-38146640.html)

Don't shoot the messenger (Martin Breheny) - many will agree that the message is very pertinent.
I don't agree with most of that
The rules are fine.
Enforce them e.g. hurley size, sliotars weight, steps taken by players and the throwing of handpasses
Most sliotars are made in Pakistan now and there is no regulations on them. Irish made balls would twice as expensive, at least. But you could put some control on them.
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: The Boy Wonder on May 25, 2019, 05:08:28 PM
I've pasted some pieces from the article below and emboldened some key points.

"If very high scoring in every game is what you want, then everything is fine, but there's more to it than that. People come to see the skills of hurling and good contests, but just because there are lots of scores, it doesn't always mean that there's great skill involved in getting them," said Pat Daly, GAA director of games and research.”

"As for skills like overhead striking, ground hurling, volleying and drop pucks, you hardly ever see them now. It's all about getting the ball into the hand and with the ball being driven enormous distances, some games are being decided from well beyond the halfway line.
"Accurate long-range striking is a skill but at what stage do you say the ball is being driven too far and taking other skills out of the game. People like to see contests, but there are fewer of them when the ball is travelling such long distances," said Daly.


Eddie Keher, one of the best ball-strikers of all-time, recalls when pointing a '70' ('65' nowadays) was regarded as a fine achievement. Despite his status as one of the best free-takers in history, his comfort zone extended to around 55 yards, with Pat Henderson taking over from further out.
"The ball and the hurley were a lot different then. The ball was a lot heavier and the hurleys weren't as good as they are today. It's like golf. Technology has enabled players to drive the ball a lot further in golf and it's the same in hurling.
"Whether it's good for the game to have the ball travelling 110 or 120 metres all the time is another matter," said Keher, whose Kilkenny career embraced three decades (1950s-'60s-'70s).”


Hurling supporters will have different opinions - reading between the line I get the feeling that Eddie Keher would not be a fan of the ball travelling 110 or 120 metres all the time. I'm of an age that I was lucky enough to see Eddie and his peers in action in the flesh many times. Of course the game evolves over the years - in some aspects for the better but in others aspects for the worse.
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 25, 2019, 05:37:38 PM
I've pasted some pieces from the article below and emboldened some key points.

"If very high scoring in every game is what you want, then everything is fine, but there's more to it than that. People come to see the skills of hurling and good contests, but just because there are lots of scores, it doesn't always mean that there's great skill involved in getting them," said Pat Daly, GAA director of games and research.”

"As for skills like overhead striking, ground hurling, volleying and drop pucks, you hardly ever see them now. It's all about getting the ball into the hand and with the ball being driven enormous distances, some games are being decided from well beyond the halfway line.
"Accurate long-range striking is a skill but at what stage do you say the ball is being driven too far and taking other skills out of the game. People like to see contests, but there are fewer of them when the ball is travelling such long distances," said Daly.


Eddie Keher, one of the best ball-strikers of all-time, recalls when pointing a '70' ('65' nowadays) was regarded as a fine achievement. Despite his status as one of the best free-takers in history, his comfort zone extended to around 55 yards, with Pat Henderson taking over from further out.
"The ball and the hurley were a lot different then. The ball was a lot heavier and the hurleys weren't as good as they are today. It's like golf. Technology has enabled players to drive the ball a lot further in golf and it's the same in hurling.
"Whether it's good for the game to have the ball travelling 110 or 120 metres all the time is another matter," said Keher, whose Kilkenny career embraced three decades (1950s-'60s-'70s).”


Hurling supporters will have different opinions - reading between the line I get the feeling that Eddie Keher would not be a fan of the ball travelling 110 or 120 metres all the time. I'm of an age that I was lucky enough to see Eddie and his peers in action in the flesh many times. Of course the game evolves over the years - in some aspects for the better but in others aspects for the worse.

If you actually sit down and watch a match from the 60’s and a game between Kilkenny and Tipp a few years ago it be chalk and cheese, dreadful in fairness, that’s not a poor reflection on Eddie it’s just the game has moved on. If you’ve done a bitta coaching or managing lately you’ll not tell a player to pull it in the air or play ground hurling, you’d be laughed out of the pitch.

Ground hurling had its place and Fenton’s goal is one of the best, but he pulled on the ball in open space and it traveled like a cannonball, if a player in a ruck plays the ball on the ground it can go anywhere, that’s not a skill, being able to dip a ball in a ruck and come away cleanly is a harder skill than lashing a ball aimlessly.

And driven too far? What do we want forty passes before we score? Pure nonsense from Daly, in all seriousness the games never been better the top level is brilliant, even the Joe mcdonagh cup has produced some cracking games, it could do with some exposure too. Scoring over twenty points was a target a visiting coach said to us one time, that was over 20 years ago, the goals will come but hit 10 points each half and you should be there or thereabouts.

Making a ball lighter won’t make it go over the bar, the talented player with great accuracy does that
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: burdizzo on May 25, 2019, 11:03:54 PM
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/martin-breheny-a-fivepoint-goal-two-points-for-other-scores-and-an-end-to-rugbyisation-of-hurling-38146640.html (https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/martin-breheny-a-fivepoint-goal-two-points-for-other-scores-and-an-end-to-rugbyisation-of-hurling-38146640.html)

Don't shoot the messenger (Martin Breheny) - many will agree that the message is very pertinent.

Breheny was banging this drum 35 years ago, when the sliothar was heavy, and there were hardly a dozen points per match.
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: Keyser Söze on May 25, 2019, 11:16:53 PM
IMO the heavier the sliothar the more the game can morph into football.
The only thing saving hurling from blanket defences is the ability to score from 80-90m.
Long may it continue.
Also, despite the fact that goalkeepers can land the ball on the far 21, all top level teams will first and foremost attempt to put the ball into a team mates hand 30-60m away from the restarts. Only when this option is cut off will goalkeepers go for misile launching.
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: didlyi on May 30, 2019, 09:43:27 PM
Im a hurling man true. But every game has its faults and no point resting on reputation. Only players with lots of space and time can put the ball over the bar from 100 yards. Seldom you see someone do it under pressure and if you do then its worth the watch like joe canning in 2017. But in order to make things better you correct the known faults first. Like...implement a better hand-pass rule, implement a better spare hand rule,implement the steps rule and implement a standard hurl size. Then tweek again.
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: AZOffaly on May 31, 2019, 08:43:52 AM
Im a hurling man true. But every game has its faults and no point resting on reputation. Only players with lots of space and time can put the ball over the bar from 100 yards. Seldom you see someone do it under pressure and if you do then its worth the watch like joe canning in 2017. But in order to make things better you correct the known faults first. Like...implement a better hand-pass rule, implement a better spare hand rule,implement the steps rule and implement a standard hurl size. Then tweek again.

Standard hurl size? I assume you mean the bás? Surely not the length/weight. Maybe have outer limits, but everyone nearly has a unique preference in length and weight of the hurl.
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: didlyi on May 31, 2019, 09:41:53 PM
Sorry yes Bas size
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 31, 2019, 10:08:07 PM
Bas size seems to be self-regulating. Too big and it becomes unwieldy, too small and the striking/carrying surface is too small. I'm not sure what problem you're trying to solve by micromanaging the Bas size.
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 31, 2019, 11:56:20 PM
Bas size seems to be self-regulating. Too big and it becomes unwieldy, too small and the striking/carrying surface is too small. I'm not sure what problem you're trying to solve by micromanaging the Bas size.

Is it unwieldy for the goal keeper?
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: Farrandeelin on June 01, 2019, 11:15:13 AM
Bring back the hurleys they had 100 years ago with the curved ending on them.
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 01, 2019, 12:50:20 PM
Bring back the hurleys they had 100 years ago with the curved ending on them.

A ‘Randal’ not sure of the spelling but that was a stick that had that typical curved end, that’s when ground hurling was a thing, was always a Nordic thing going back to Shinty
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: The Boy Wonder on August 05, 2019, 11:01:58 PM
Watch: Laois 'keeper Rowland scores from a puckout
http://hoganstand.com/Article/Index/302465 (http://hoganstand.com/Article/Index/302465)

If we can't have a heavier sliotar we'll have to extend the pitches !
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 05, 2019, 11:44:21 PM
Watch: Laois 'keeper Rowland scores from a puckout
http://hoganstand.com/Article/Index/302465 (http://hoganstand.com/Article/Index/302465)

If we can't have a heavier sliotar we'll have to extend the pitches !

Just to clarify the scores, the ball didn’t go over the bar clean from puck out, gale force wind blowing down the pitch, keep your hair on
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 06, 2019, 12:08:20 AM
Bas size seems to be self-regulating. Too big and it becomes unwieldy, too small and the striking/carrying surface is too small. I'm not sure what problem you're trying to solve by micromanaging the Bas size.

Is it unwieldy for the goal keeper?

A little bit, but that's the trade-off goalies make for a larger surface to stop shots. A keeper's hurley wouldn't be practical for the other players on the field who spend more time swinging.
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: marty34 on August 06, 2019, 08:36:32 AM
Bas size seems to be self-regulating. Too big and it becomes unwieldy, too small and the striking/carrying surface is too small. I'm not sure what problem you're trying to solve by micromanaging the Bas size.

Is it unwieldy for the goal keeper?

A little bit, but that's the trade-off goalies make for a larger surface to stop shots. A keeper's hurley wouldn't be practical for the other players on the field who spend more time swinging.

Yeah, shot stopping wouldn't be the key area for keepers nowadays.  All about picking the ball up aou around the goals and for striking.  Shot stopping is down the list.
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: burdizzo on August 06, 2019, 08:56:33 AM
Watch: Laois 'keeper Rowland scores from a puckout
http://hoganstand.com/Article/Index/302465 (http://hoganstand.com/Article/Index/302465)

If we can't have a heavier sliotar we'll have to extend the pitches !

Just to clarify the scores, the ball didn’t go over the bar clean from puck out, gale force wind blowing down the pitch, keep your hair on

Yes, it bounced in the square before going over, but it was certainly not a gale-force wind. There was a good breeze, all right, but way off gale force. Funnily enough, the previous Laois goalie, Eoin Reilly, shot a wide from a puck-out against Cork in a league game a few years ago - but that WAS with the assistance of a gale-force wind! He was also a bit of a long-puck specialist, and is from the same club as Rowland.
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 06, 2019, 08:59:00 AM
Bas size seems to be self-regulating. Too big and it becomes unwieldy, too small and the striking/carrying surface is too small. I'm not sure what problem you're trying to solve by micromanaging the Bas size.

Is it unwieldy for the goal keeper?

A little bit, but that's the trade-off goalies make for a larger surface to stop shots. A keeper's hurley wouldn't be practical for the other players on the field who spend more time swinging.

Yeah, shot stopping wouldn't be the key area for keepers nowadays.  All about picking the ball up aou around the goals and for striking.  Shot stopping is down the list.

You need to stay off the glue marty, too early in the morning for that shite.
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: marty34 on August 06, 2019, 09:22:27 AM
Bas size seems to be self-regulating. Too big and it becomes unwieldy, too small and the striking/carrying surface is too small. I'm not sure what problem you're trying to solve by micromanaging the Bas size.

Is it unwieldy for the goal keeper?

A little bit, but that's the trade-off goalies make for a larger surface to stop shots. A keeper's hurley wouldn't be practical for the other players on the field who spend more time swinging.

Yeah, shot stopping wouldn't be the key area for keepers nowadays.  All about picking the ball up aou around the goals and for striking.  Shot stopping is down the list.

You need to stay off the glue marty, too early in the morning for that shite.

Don't take my word for it. David Herrity told me that last year....but I'll bow to YOUR greater knowledge.
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: hardstation on August 06, 2019, 11:24:43 AM
Watch: Laois 'keeper Rowland scores from a puckout
http://hoganstand.com/Article/Index/302465 (http://hoganstand.com/Article/Index/302465)

If we can't have a heavier sliotar we'll have to extend the pitches !
You’ll always get the odd goalkeeper with a tremendous dig. Pat Gallagher of St Johns in Antrim scored a point from a puck out in a club game at Corrigan Park in the mid 90s. He regularly rained ball on the opposition goalmouth. I remember speaking to a clubmate of his who complained that he drove the ball wide far too often.
The ball isn’t having a negative impact on the game so it would be silly to change it.
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: manfromdelmonte on August 06, 2019, 03:42:18 PM
Bas size seems to be self-regulating. Too big and it becomes unwieldy, too small and the striking/carrying surface is too small. I'm not sure what problem you're trying to solve by micromanaging the Bas size.

Is it unwieldy for the goal keeper?

A little bit, but that's the trade-off goalies make for a larger surface to stop shots. A keeper's hurley wouldn't be practical for the other players on the field who spend more time swinging.

Yeah, shot stopping wouldn't be the key area for keepers nowadays.  All about picking the ball up aou around the goals and for striking.  Shot stopping is down the list.
a goalie in hurling shouldn't have to save a one on one shot
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: seafoid on December 10, 2019, 01:51:37 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/yellow-sliotar-set-to-be-used-in-2020-hurling-championship-1.4110652

Yellow sliotar set to be used in 2020 hurling championship
Reports suggest new ball has passed tests and now just needs approval from Central Council

A yellow sliotar is set to be used in next year’s hurling championship once it is approved at Central Council next month.

A report in the Irish Examiner says an exhaustive eight-year process has led to the expected introduction of the new ball which will incorporate a microchip in its core, allowing officials to scan the ball with a smartphone to ensure it is fit to use.

The ball has been tested in DCU and has also been trialled the last two stagings of the Super 11s as well as the Celtic Challenge in the US.

GAA seeing the light on the new yellow sliotar
With approval now expected at next month’s Central Council meeting, the ball will likely come into use when the Leinster and Munster, Joe McDonagh, Christy Ring, Nicky Rackard and Lory Meagher Cup competitions begin in May.

The ‘smart sliotar’, produced by Kilkenny company Greenfields Digital Sports Technology, will come as a welcome initiative to many who have called for a different colour ball to make it more visible, similar to changes made a number of years ago in tennis.

Speaking on RTÉ earlier this year, Donal Óg Cusack called for a change.

“Tennis used to have a white ball and they changed for really good reasons, some of those being TV,” he said.

“We see now the demographic in Ireland is changing. If someone is watching the game on television and they can’t follow the sliotar it’s a turn off straight away whereas, a luminous ball is much easier to see and it’s scientifically proven that your eye will react faster to it.”
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 10, 2019, 01:58:39 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/yellow-sliotar-set-to-be-used-in-2020-hurling-championship-1.4110652

Yellow sliotar set to be used in 2020 hurling championship
Reports suggest new ball has passed tests and now just needs approval from Central Council

A yellow sliotar is set to be used in next year’s hurling championship once it is approved at Central Council next month.

A report in the Irish Examiner says an exhaustive eight-year process has led to the expected introduction of the new ball which will incorporate a microchip in its core, allowing officials to scan the ball with a smartphone to ensure it is fit to use.

The ball has been tested in DCU and has also been trialled the last two stagings of the Super 11s as well as the Celtic Challenge in the US.

GAA seeing the light on the new yellow sliotar
With approval now expected at next month’s Central Council meeting, the ball will likely come into use when the Leinster and Munster, Joe McDonagh, Christy Ring, Nicky Rackard and Lory Meagher Cup competitions begin in May.

The ‘smart sliotar’, produced by Kilkenny company Greenfields Digital Sports Technology, will come as a welcome initiative to many who have called for a different colour ball to make it more visible, similar to changes made a number of years ago in tennis.

Speaking on RTÉ earlier this year, Donal Óg Cusack called for a change.

“Tennis used to have a white ball and they changed for really good reasons, some of those being TV,” he said.

“We see now the demographic in Ireland is changing. If someone is watching the game on television and they can’t follow the sliotar it’s a turn off straight away whereas, a luminous ball is much easier to see and it’s scientifically proven that your eye will react faster to it.”

Good idea
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: marty34 on December 10, 2019, 04:32:09 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/yellow-sliotar-set-to-be-used-in-2020-hurling-championship-1.4110652

Yellow sliotar set to be used in 2020 hurling championship
Reports suggest new ball has passed tests and now just needs approval from Central Council

A yellow sliotar is set to be used in next year’s hurling championship once it is approved at Central Council next month.

A report in the Irish Examiner says an exhaustive eight-year process has led to the expected introduction of the new ball which will incorporate a microchip in its core, allowing officials to scan the ball with a smartphone to ensure it is fit to use.

The ball has been tested in DCU and has also been trialled the last two stagings of the Super 11s as well as the Celtic Challenge in the US.

GAA seeing the light on the new yellow sliotar
With approval now expected at next month’s Central Council meeting, the ball will likely come into use when the Leinster and Munster, Joe McDonagh, Christy Ring, Nicky Rackard and Lory Meagher Cup competitions begin in May.

The ‘smart sliotar’, produced by Kilkenny company Greenfields Digital Sports Technology, will come as a welcome initiative to many who have called for a different colour ball to make it more visible, similar to changes made a number of years ago in tennis.

Speaking on RTÉ earlier this year, Donal Óg Cusack called for a change.

“Tennis used to have a white ball and they changed for really good reasons, some of those being TV,” he said.

“We see now the demographic in Ireland is changing. If someone is watching the game on television and they can’t follow the sliotar it’s a turn off straight away whereas, a luminous ball is much easier to see and it’s scientifically proven that your eye will react faster to it.”

Totally agree with this - will take a bit of time for players to get used to it but will be a success.  About time in fairness!

Be great for a game under lights although hurling/camogie shouldn't be played under lights in my opinion.

I wonder will they change the football to yellow in the next few years? Anybody agree?
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: lenny on December 10, 2019, 06:46:50 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/yellow-sliotar-set-to-be-used-in-2020-hurling-championship-1.4110652

Yellow sliotar set to be used in 2020 hurling championship
Reports suggest new ball has passed tests and now just needs approval from Central Council

A yellow sliotar is set to be used in next year’s hurling championship once it is approved at Central Council next month.

A report in the Irish Examiner says an exhaustive eight-year process has led to the expected introduction of the new ball which will incorporate a microchip in its core, allowing officials to scan the ball with a smartphone to ensure it is fit to use.

The ball has been tested in DCU and has also been trialled the last two stagings of the Super 11s as well as the Celtic Challenge in the US.

GAA seeing the light on the new yellow sliotar
With approval now expected at next month’s Central Council meeting, the ball will likely come into use when the Leinster and Munster, Joe McDonagh, Christy Ring, Nicky Rackard and Lory Meagher Cup competitions begin in May.

The ‘smart sliotar’, produced by Kilkenny company Greenfields Digital Sports Technology, will come as a welcome initiative to many who have called for a different colour ball to make it more visible, similar to changes made a number of years ago in tennis.

Speaking on RTÉ earlier this year, Donal Óg Cusack called for a change.

“Tennis used to have a white ball and they changed for really good reasons, some of those being TV,” he said.

“We see now the demographic in Ireland is changing. If someone is watching the game on television and they can’t follow the sliotar it’s a turn off straight away whereas, a luminous ball is much easier to see and it’s scientifically proven that your eye will react faster to it.”

Totally agree with this - will take a bit of time for players to get used to it but will be a success.  About time in fairness!

Be great for a game under lights although hurling/camogie shouldn't be played under lights in my opinion.

I wonder will they change the football to yellow in the next few years? Anybody agree?

Ah ffs if anybody can’t see a size 5 they need to go to the opticians.
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 26, 2020, 03:26:54 PM
Was watching the 95 semi final there, Clare v Galway.

This talk of a heavier ball as they score more now than them, nonsense, the style and skill level contributed to low scoring along with poorer stick work, while ground hurling and flicks were the rage then it wasn’t fluent enough!

Though it didn’t lack heart which is still aplenty when these teams meet up.
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: Bord na Mona man on May 11, 2020, 12:19:00 PM
Watching the older games more closely, it looks like the sliotar hasn't changed that much after all. Keepers like Ger Cunningham or Niall Patterson could virtually hit the ball the length of the field 30 years ago. Outfield players could drive it far at various times.
The biggest change has been the hurleys. The 'sweet spot' is bigger now. In previous years the hurley was shaped more to suit ground hurling, which lead to far more mis-hits and poor connections out of the hand. This is the biggest reason there was lots of 30 and 40 metre clearances. Under any pressure at all, a player generally hit the ball but didn't get great purchase on it.

Add to that, players are technically better and fitter nowadays. Far less one-sided players, in game fatigue not such a factor, players more likely to move the ball to a spare player instead of striking under pressure. Everyone numbered 5 to 15 is expected to pop it over the bar from half way if they get a look at the posts.

If you want to increase the ball-in-play time and reduce everyone shooting on sight, simply introduce negative scoring. A team gets docked a point for every 4 wides they hit.
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: hardstation on May 11, 2020, 12:36:10 PM
Ffs, things are bad enough without us ending up on -10.
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: imtommygunn on May 18, 2020, 06:43:01 PM
Watched Galway tipp from 87 or 88. There were some tough boys on that Galway team. Linnnane, finnerty, keady, mcinerney. You wouldn’t have messed with any of them in a hurry in their prime. Hayes and Coleman not far behind either.
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: Kidder81 on May 19, 2020, 08:52:14 PM
Watched Galway tipp from 87 or 88. There were some tough boys on that Galway team. Linnnane, finnerty, keady, mcinerney. You wouldn’t have messed with any of them in a hurry in their prime. Hayes and Coleman not far behind either.

Finnerty was the best of them all in my opinion
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 20, 2020, 09:17:38 AM
Watched Galway tipp from 87 or 88. There were some tough boys on that Galway team. Linnnane, finnerty, keady, mcinerney. You wouldn’t have messed with any of them in a hurry in their prime. Hayes and Coleman not far behind either.

Finnerty was the best of them all in my opinion

Agreed on Finnerty, but so many players on that team would favour a fan based on their styles

The 89 semi final they lost against Tipp was one that got away that would have been what that team deserved, Tipp blew them away early doors but Galway steadied the ship second half. Brendan Lynskey had an injury leading into the game and was dropped, came on and turned the game, should have started imo, fit for the bench fit to start and all that!
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: didlyi on May 23, 2020, 02:01:08 PM
Watching the older games more closely, it looks like the sliotar hasn't changed that much after all. Keepers like Ger Cunningham or Niall Patterson could virtually hit the ball the length of the field 30 years ago. Outfield players could drive it far at various times.
The biggest change has been the hurleys. The 'sweet spot' is bigger now. In previous years the hurley was shaped more to suit ground hurling, which lead to far more mis-hits and poor connections out of the hand. This is the biggest reason there was lots of 30 and 40 metre clearances. Under any pressure at all, a player generally hit the ball but didn't get great purchase on it.

Add to that, players are technically better and fitter nowadays. Far less one-sided players, in game fatigue not such a factor, players more likely to move the ball to a spare player instead of striking under pressure. Everyone numbered 5 to 15 is expected to pop it over the bar from half way if they get a look at the posts.

If you want to increase the ball-in-play time and reduce everyone shooting on sight, simply introduce negative scoring. A team gets docked a point for every 4 wides they hit.

Agree its more to do with technique and hurleys than sliothar weight. But for me its the man in space that will put the ball over the bar from the other end of the field not the man under pressure. And the hand pass has been perfected to the point that delivering to a man in space is a lot easier than 30 years ago. Reducing the number of handpasses would reduce that opportunity and give the opposition a better chance of defending the pass and the score. More stick passing would be more attractive too.
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: johnnycool on May 26, 2020, 08:26:21 AM
Watching the older games more closely, it looks like the sliotar hasn't changed that much after all. Keepers like Ger Cunningham or Niall Patterson could virtually hit the ball the length of the field 30 years ago. Outfield players could drive it far at various times.
The biggest change has been the hurleys. The 'sweet spot' is bigger now. In previous years the hurley was shaped more to suit ground hurling, which lead to far more mis-hits and poor connections out of the hand. This is the biggest reason there was lots of 30 and 40 metre clearances. Under any pressure at all, a player generally hit the ball but didn't get great purchase on it.

Add to that, players are technically better and fitter nowadays. Far less one-sided players, in game fatigue not such a factor, players more likely to move the ball to a spare player instead of striking under pressure. Everyone numbered 5 to 15 is expected to pop it over the bar from half way if they get a look at the posts.

If you want to increase the ball-in-play time and reduce everyone shooting on sight, simply introduce negative scoring. A team gets docked a point for every 4 wides they hit.

Agree its more to do with technique and hurleys than sliothar weight. But for me its the man in space that will put the ball over the bar from the other end of the field not the man under pressure. And the hand pass has been perfected to the point that delivering to a man in space is a lot easier than 30 years ago. Reducing the number of handpasses would reduce that opportunity and give the opposition a better chance of defending the pass and the score. More stick passing would be more attractive too.

The pitch in Croke Park is longer now than it was back then, almost 10 metres longer IIRC.

Back then the ball was made of a cork core wrapped in cotton thread which in a dry day was dead on but in the wet was a tonne weight.
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: Ash Smoker on January 06, 2021, 06:22:35 PM
It turns out that the problem is that the sliotar is too heavy and not too light.
The rubber they've been putting inside it in recent years is a big factor.
If they made the sliotar lighter, it would lose momentum in the air quicker.
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: Lar Naparka on January 06, 2021, 11:58:29 PM
It turns out that the problem is that the sliotar is too heavy and not too light.
The rubber they've been puttingl
That is right. A light pebbe can't be thrown as far a another one twice its size. That is a matter of aerodynamics.
Title: Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
Post by: johnnycool on January 07, 2021, 03:06:42 PM
It turns out that the problem is that the sliotar is too heavy and not too light.
The rubber they've been putting inside it in recent years is a big factor.
If they made the sliotar lighter, it would lose momentum in the air quicker.

To an extent, but there is a point of critical mass at both ends of the scale where making it lighter might also cause the flight of the ball to waiver like a beach ball and that's no ideal either. Too heavy and yes the ball won't travel as far but might do a bit of damage if you got hit full welt with it. We'd a lad who got a damaged eye socket after getting hit with a sliotar from close range which bent the bar of his helmet. The helmet wasn't tampered with in any way either.

It is possible to keep the same weight and change the makeup of the core to make it less responsive.