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GAA Discussion => GAA Discussion => Topic started by: seafoid on February 07, 2019, 08:47:58 AM

Title: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: seafoid on February 07, 2019, 08:47:58 AM
The supercrisis is made up of

1. Dublin
2. Attendances
3. Croke Park and commercialisation
4. The football product
5. the dependence on a few matches to prop up the rest of the organisation

and it is visible in detail in the annual report 
https://www.gaa.ie/news/gaa-ard-stiurthoir-tom-ryan-launches-2018-annual-report/

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gate-receipts-and-attendances-for-football-championship-slid-alarmingly-in-2018-despite-the-introduction-of-the-super-8s-37788169.html

1.  "On the vexed question of Games Development grants, Dublin continue to secure a lion share of the €9.6m paid out directly to counties.
Dublin received €1.3m – an increase on last year's figure of £1.2m. Meath were the next biggest recipients with €367,400 but Cork – which has more registered GAA teams than any other county – received just €249,000."

This money goes on coaches

manfromdelmonte
"Dubs skill level is much higher than most teams
Kick with both feet, pass off either hand, step off either foot
Plus maximise every advantage going - 3/4 steps extra while bouncing the ball, cutting in front of chasing player while soloing or running, setting screens to get space to shoot.
All highly coachable"

2 "Overall, the average attendances figures at the 39 games in the All-Ireland series – which includes the qualifiers, the Super 8s and the All-Ireland semi-final and final – was 13,225.
In 2017 when there were 33 games played in the football series the average attendance was 19,049."

3."The GAA commercial income increased to €19.6m last year compared to €17.3m in 2017.
The Croke Park stadium generated a surplus of €10.9m in 2018 – they handed over €8m of this to Central Council. This brings the total figure that the stadium has generated for the GAA since 2006 to €108m."

It looks like commercial income is more important these days than the state of football


4.https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/gaa-should-have-restricted-players-to-just-one-handpass-reckons-dr-pat-oneill-900749.html

 “The modern game wants the handpass and those that are making the rules and are responsible for them being implemented have conceded that.
“Being of the old school, I have to think there’s far too much handpassing. This was an opportunity to restrict it and return to what the game  is supposed to be — football. It’s so much like European Handball now.”
As a regular Croke Park matchgoer, O’Neill was alarmed by what he saw last season. “I would go to most of the Championship matches in Croke Park, not just the Dublin games, and I was never as bored as much at a game in my life as I was last summer.
“Some of those games were very pedestrian and they are following a soccer trend when it’s so possession-based.
A different strategy is needed to entertain the public because over the weekend I saw the TV viewing figures from last year and rugby games are higher than the GAA’s. When you think that Gaelic football and hurling are our national games and reflect the wider community, that’s worrying.


5. "While more than 800,000 attended the Central Council's championship games in 2018, six of the largest attendances accounted for over half the figure."
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Rossfan on February 07, 2019, 09:12:11 AM
The closing stages of the Senior AIs both hurling and football were always used to "prop up the organisation".
As can be seen in the Report most Central Council competitions lose money.
The imbalance in development grants is a disgrace .
The Dublin dominance and orgies of biring throwball combined with prices and more games in a shorter period not helping attendance figures.
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: seafoid on February 07, 2019, 09:19:19 AM
The closing stages of the Senior AIs both hurling and football were always used to "prop up the organisation".
As can be seen in the Report most Central Council competitions lose money.
The imbalance in development grants is a disgrace .
The Dublin dominance and orgies of biring throwball combined with prices and more games in a shorter period not helping attendance figures.

You need competition for European handball to be attractive.
Even the semifinals are losing fans 
It is all going in the wrong direction
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on February 07, 2019, 09:51:58 AM
When was the last major or majorish  decision the central GAA got right?

These results, and the PuC bills are in the post,  are the inevitible results of this poor leadership. The GAA press are way to soft on them and too many of us just shrug it off.
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Rossfan on February 07, 2019, 10:32:26 AM
So let's have your suggestions on what they should do.
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on February 07, 2019, 10:46:37 AM
So let's have your suggestions on what they should do.

1. Complete cleanout on Jones Road. Too many chefs, too many committees too many tinkerings to justify their existence. In general, leave it alone

2. Accountability. The people who brought us the puc debacle have been rewarded. The GAA press need to be critical and risk the trough.

3. Stop this anti sport attitude. Dublin and Kilkenny are where they are because of good decisions and graft. Handicapping them is not the approach, pull up your own socks.

4. That said the imbalance in funding is crazy. Back ambition wherever it is.

5. Infrastructure is all over the place. PuC, Casement, Tallaght. Disasters following no pattern.

.
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: seafoid on February 07, 2019, 11:07:52 AM
So let's have your suggestions on what they should do.

1. Complete cleanout on Jones Road. Too many chefs, too many committees too many tinkerings to justify their existence. In general, leave it alone

2. Accountability. The people who brought us the puc debacle have been rewarded. The GAA press need to be critical and risk the trough.

3. Stop this anti sport attitude. Dublin and Kilkenny are where they are because of good decisions and graft. Handicapping them is not the approach, pull up your own socks.

4. That said the imbalance in funding is crazy. Back ambition wherever it is.

5. Infrastructure is all over the place. PuC, Casement, Tallaght. Disasters following no pattern.

.

I think the Dubs are a different kettle of fish to KK
The GAA didn't decide to fund KK systematically to the detriment of everyone else

The Dubs were a bit of joke between 1996 and 2008 say

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/fault-lines-appear-for-kerry-in-a-kingdom-under-pressure-1.3769567

 "Dublin’s transformation from 1970s nostalgia act to unprecedented juggernaut has forced Kerry football people – all Kerry people, in other words – to think differently about themselves. The old certainties have been stripped away with bewildering haste."

Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on February 07, 2019, 11:17:22 AM
See point 4.

But at least it was a plan. Do you think the current blazers have a vision?
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: seafoid on February 07, 2019, 11:20:20 AM
See point 4.

But at least it was a plan. Do you think the current blazers have a vision?
3 and 4 are contradictory


I think the blazers are useless

J. K. Galbraith:“The conventional wisdom”gives way not so much to new ideas as to “the massive onslaught of circumstances with which it cannot contend”.

I would class 6 or 7 in a row by the Dubs as “the massive onslaught of circumstances with which it cannot contend”.
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on February 07, 2019, 11:25:35 AM
See point 4.

But at least it was a plan. Do you think the current blazers have a vision?
3 and 4 are contradictory


I think the blazers are useless

J. K. Galbraith:“The conventional wisdom”gives way not so much to new ideas as to “the massive onslaught of circumstances with which it cannot contend”.

I would class 6 or 7 in a row by the Dubs as “the massive onslaught of circumstances with which it cannot contend”.

How so? Funding goes to the best ideas with the best chance of success. If a county happens to be better organised than yours, stop whining and become organised.

It is fundamentally not the role of sports administarors to try and influence on the pitch results. Thats the anti sport attitude I referred to.
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: seafoid on February 07, 2019, 11:30:09 AM
See point 4.

But at least it was a plan. Do you think the current blazers have a vision?
3 and 4 are contradictory


I think the blazers are useless

J. K. Galbraith:“The conventional wisdom”gives way not so much to new ideas as to “the massive onslaught of circumstances with which it cannot contend”.

I would class 6 or 7 in a row by the Dubs as “the massive onslaught of circumstances with which it cannot contend”.

How so? Funding goes to the best ideas with the best chance of success. If a county happens to be better organised than yours, stop whining and become organised.

It is fundamentally not the role of sports administarors to try and influence on the pitch results. Thats the anti sport attitude I referred to.

It is not the job of the administrators to fund the Dubs
That makes a mockery of competition
It means people may prefer to watch rugby

If there is a group desperately needs funding to bring them up to scratch it is the ulster hurling counties
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on February 07, 2019, 11:35:38 AM
For right or wrong that decision was taken. There are clubs prospering in areas that had never heard of gaelic games, although this has created other problems.

But at least it was a plan. It went to far, but the idea was sound, articulated and debated. A vision, executed with mixed results.
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: seafoid on February 07, 2019, 12:00:19 PM
For right or wrong that decision was taken. There are clubs prospering in areas that had never heard of gaelic games, although this has created other problems.

But at least it was a plan. It went to far, but the idea was sound, articulated and debated. A vision, executed with mixed results.

Maybe they did need to tweak the football
but they ended up breaking it and now attendances are suffering
It is not ideal, Marty.

You stretched for the stars and you know how it feels
to reach too high,  too far,  too soon

They need to rewind it back and have a good think about what the point of the organisation is
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: From the Bunker on February 07, 2019, 12:27:37 PM
For right or wrong that decision was taken. There are clubs prospering in areas that had never heard of gaelic games, although this has created other problems.

But at least it was a plan. It went to far, but the idea was sound, articulated and debated. A vision, executed with mixed results.

Maybe they did need to tweak the football
but they ended up breaking it and now attendances are suffering
It is not ideal, Marty.

You stretched for the stars and you know how it feels
to reach too high,  too far,  too soon

They need to rewind it back and have a good think about what the point of the organisation is

These things are all cycles! Dublin will fade away once this golden generation fade away. You just have to have the Patience to wait! The reality is the chasing bunch need to get their house in order.

"Qu'ils mangent de la brioche"

  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: manfromdelmonte on February 07, 2019, 12:48:34 PM
See point 4.

But at least it was a plan. Do you think the current blazers have a vision?
3 and 4 are contradictory


I think the blazers are useless

J. K. Galbraith:“The conventional wisdom”gives way not so much to new ideas as to “the massive onslaught of circumstances with which it cannot contend”.

I would class 6 or 7 in a row by the Dubs as “the massive onslaught of circumstances with which it cannot contend”.

How so? Funding goes to the best ideas with the best chance of success. If a county happens to be better organised than yours, stop whining and become organised.

It is fundamentally not the role of sports administarors to try and influence on the pitch results. Thats the anti sport attitude I referred to.
That's laughable

School in Dublin gets hours with a full time coach every week
A school in e.g. longford gets 6 weeks of coaching per YEAR, probably 60mins per school and probably only with the junior classrooms

Same organisation, different funding grants from HQ
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: From the Bunker on February 07, 2019, 12:52:49 PM
See point 4.

But at least it was a plan. Do you think the current blazers have a vision?
3 and 4 are contradictory


I think the blazers are useless

J. K. Galbraith:“The conventional wisdom”gives way not so much to new ideas as to “the massive onslaught of circumstances with which it cannot contend”.

I would class 6 or 7 in a row by the Dubs as “the massive onslaught of circumstances with which it cannot contend”.

How so? Funding goes to the best ideas with the best chance of success. If a county happens to be better organised than yours, stop whining and become organised.

It is fundamentally not the role of sports administarors to try and influence on the pitch results. Thats the anti sport attitude I referred to.
That's laughable

School in Dublin gets hours with a full time coach every week
A school in e.g. longford gets 6 weeks of coaching per YEAR, probably 60mins per school and probably only with the junior classrooms

Same organisation, different funding grants from HQ

What you are forgetting is that Dublin GAA is more important. There is greater potential to have more people in the capital playing. Longford does not matter.
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on February 07, 2019, 12:55:28 PM
So let Longford apply for thpuse contact hours....

If they do and get rejected, thats one thing. If they havent bothered, boo hoo.
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: thewobbler on February 07, 2019, 01:10:11 PM
For what it’s worth, I wish people would shut the f**k up about Dublin getting larger grants.

A quarter of the population live in that county. If they weren’t receiving an exceptional percentage of overall funding spend, it would be wholly unfair on people born in Dublin, and would be detrimental to the GAA’s grassroots policy of “get them involved with their club early, get them involved for life”.

This is NOT a modern GAA problem. This one rolls all the way back to 1884, when the core constructs of the Association were founded upon the well-meaning and identity-building - but fundamentally imbalanced - partition of jurisdictions according to county lines.

It just so happens that Dublin have come across a golden generation of players at the same time that social media has enabled every dimwit across the land to have an opinion, and to drumbeat the populist narrative. The Dublin dominance issue will  fix itself in a couple of year, except the dimwits in 10 years time will then be yelping about how the GAA needs a strong Dublin.


——-

Fundamentally, where the suits need put in order, is this.

1. Core values of community and volunteering need stamped on their foreheads, sent as daily reminders, typed in 10 foot letters at the top of every letter or enail they read. Every decision they make needs to be evaluated against how it improves the Association for communities and volunteers. If it doesn’t help them, don’t proceed..

2. Strategies, annual budgets and forecasts should focus on minimising expenditure, and not maximising revenue. This concept does not rule out large infrastructure projects or a commitment to coaching; as both provide advantages to members. But it should minimise the desire/need/will to collect pits of cash and then decide what to spend it on. The purpose of this organisation should never be to gather money.

——
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Hound on February 07, 2019, 01:41:05 PM

That's laughable

School in Dublin gets hours with a full time coach every week
A school in e.g. longford gets 6 weeks of coaching per YEAR, probably 60mins per school and probably only with the junior classrooms

Same organisation, different funding grants from HQ

It's actually the same funding grants, but because of numbers there's a lot more of them.
 
The way it works is:
1. Club goes to members and asks are they willing to put €14k (I think that's approx, but not sure) of clubs funds to hiring young full time coach. Members agree and GAA then covers the other 50% of the cost of coach.
2. Coach goes to local schools and takes PE. Equal time has to be given to boys and girls and football and hurling/camogie. Some will throw in handball sessions too I believe.
3. Each child will get one session per week in the primary school (although I didn't think it was the whole year, I thought it was semester, although must check with my kids to confirm) and is encouraged to go up to the club to get more sessions. In most clubs the paid coach will often take the U8s and below for a session at the weekend. But once they're on a team, then it's the parents who take over.

I know there are more and more paid coaches in Leinster, but understand given the numbers there's far less clubs who can raise the 14k themselves, so a few clubs may join forces together to get the funds. Which means the coach is spread over a bigger number of schools. Although the coach in my club has 4 national schools in his catchment, but (unlike a coach in Leinster) there'd only be a few miles between the 4 of them.
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: caprea on February 07, 2019, 01:45:01 PM
You’re failing to grasp 3 things:

1- that Dublin have the biggest access to commercial revenue hence they already have revenue streams no other county comes close to so shouldn’t need massive cash injections from HQ

2- Cork the second biggest county is not even getting 10% of the development grants Dublin have over the past 13 years.

3- Dublin have received the most development every year for at least the last 13 years. That is arguably straight up financial doping to an already very successful county.
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: From the Bunker on February 07, 2019, 01:46:08 PM
For what it’s worth, I wish people would shut the f**k up about Dublin getting larger grants.

A quarter of the population live in that county. If they weren’t receiving an exceptional percentage of overall funding spend, it would be wholly unfair on people born in Dublin, and would be detrimental to the GAA’s grassroots policy of “get them involved with their club early, get them involved for life”.

This is NOT a modern GAA problem. This one rolls all the way back to 1884, when the core constructs of the Association were founded upon the well-meaning and identity-building - but fundamentally imbalanced - partition of jurisdictions according to county lines.

It just so happens that Dublin have come across a golden generation of players at the same time that social media has enabled every dimwit across the land to have an opinion, and to drumbeat the populist narrative. The Dublin dominance issue will  fix itself in a couple of year, except the dimwits in 10 years time will then be yelping about how the GAA needs a strong Dublin.


——-

Fundamentally, where the suits need put in order, is this.

1. Core values of community and volunteering need stamped on their foreheads, sent as daily reminders, typed in 10 foot letters at the top of every letter or enail they read. Every decision they make needs to be evaluated against how it improves the Association for communities and volunteers. If it doesn’t help them, don’t proceed..

2. Strategies, annual budgets and forecasts should focus on minimising expenditure, and not maximising revenue. This concept does not rule out large infrastructure projects or a commitment to coaching; as both provide advantages to members. But it should minimise the desire/need/will to collect pits of cash and then decide what to spend it on. The purpose of this organisation should never be to gather money.

——

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on February 07, 2019, 01:47:40 PM
You’re failing to grasp 3 things:

1- that Dublin have the biggest access to commercial revenue hence they already have revenue streams no other county comes close to so shouldn’t need massive cash injections from HQ

2- Cork the second biggest county is not even getting 10% of the development grants Dublin have over the past 13 years.

3- Dublin have received the most development every year for at least the last 13 years. That is arguably straight up financial doping to an already very successful county.

Cork and funding is unfortunate at the moment.

But all these counties getting too little. Are they having requests rejected?
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: highorlow on February 07, 2019, 01:57:50 PM
Quote
It just so happens that Dublin have come across a golden generations of players at the same time that social media has enabled every dimwit across the land culchie to have an opinion

Fixed that for ya!  ;)
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: inabsentia on February 07, 2019, 02:30:28 PM
You’re failing to grasp 3 things:

1- that Dublin have the biggest access to commercial revenue hence they already have revenue streams no other county comes close to so shouldn’t need massive cash injections from HQ

2- Cork the second biggest county is not even getting 10% of the development grants Dublin have over the past 13 years.

3- Dublin have received the most development every year for at least the last 13 years. That is arguably straight up financial doping to an already very successful county.

By what metric are you defining Cork as the second largest county?
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: From the Bunker on February 07, 2019, 02:33:07 PM
So let's have your suggestions on what they should do.

1. Complete cleanout on Jones Road. Too many chefs, too many committees too many tinkerings to justify their existence. In general, leave it alone

2. Accountability. The people who brought us the puc debacle have been rewarded. The GAA press need to be critical and risk the trough.

3. Stop this anti sport attitude. Dublin and Kilkenny are where they are because of good decisions and graft. Handicapping them is not the approach, pull up your own socks.

4. That said the imbalance in funding is crazy. Back ambition wherever it is.

5. Infrastructure is all over the place. PuC, Casement, Tallaght. Disasters following no pattern.

.

I think the Dubs are a different kettle of fish to KK
The GAA didn't decide to fund KK systematically to the detriment of everyone else

The Dubs were a bit of joke between 1996 and 2008 say

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/fault-lines-appear-for-kerry-in-a-kingdom-under-pressure-1.3769567

 "Dublin’s transformation from 1970s nostalgia act to unprecedented juggernaut has forced Kerry football people – all Kerry people, in other words – to think differently about themselves. The old certainties have been stripped away with bewildering haste."

Not long ago you were saying the opposite seafoid! I suppose now that you have seen the Dubs up close against Galway you now realise the true nature of this animal. Talk of cycles has vanished?
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: BennyCake on February 07, 2019, 02:35:29 PM
You’re failing to grasp 3 things:

1- that Dublin have the biggest access to commercial revenue hence they already have revenue streams no other county comes close to so shouldn’t need massive cash injections from HQ

2- Cork the second biggest county is not even getting 10% of the development grants Dublin have over the past 13 years.

3- Dublin have received the most development every year for at least the last 13 years. That is arguably straight up financial doping to an already very successful county.

By what metric are you defining Cork as the second largest county?

Antrim is the second most populated county.
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Rossfan on February 07, 2019, 02:38:26 PM
I love Hound's bit about asking Club members to put €14k of Clubs funds towards paying a coach......
That rules out about 90% of Clubs in most Counties.
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: From the Bunker on February 07, 2019, 02:44:52 PM
I love Hound's bit about asking Club members to put €14k of Clubs funds towards paying a coach......
That rules out about 90% of Clubs in most Counties.

It's his "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche" moment!
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: manfromdelmonte on February 07, 2019, 04:05:29 PM
I know of 3 clubs in the midlands who were willing to 50% fund a full time coach, shared between the 3 clubs.
They had a club coaching plan, funding plan, and school coaching plan all in place and they went looking for matching funding
No matching funding available at county or provincial level.

Another midlands county drew up an urban development plan to try and develop GAA in the towns and went looking for funding.
No funding available

There won't be too many golden generations appearing outside of Dublin, out of the blue.
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Hound on February 07, 2019, 05:03:24 PM
I know of 3 clubs in the midlands who were willing to 50% fund a full time coach, shared between the 3 clubs.
They had a club coaching plan, funding plan, and school coaching plan all in place and they went looking for matching funding
No matching funding available at county or provincial level.

That's shocking if true.
Goes against all information given by the GAA in relation to such funding.
Let's find out if it is true.

Start by the naming the clubs involved and we'll go from there.
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Rossfan on February 07, 2019, 05:16:50 PM
So let's have your suggestions on what they should do.

1. Complete cleanout on Jones Road. Too many chefs, too many committees too many tinkerings to justify their existence. In general, leave it alone
SOUNDS LIKE A LATE NIGHT BARSTOOL COMMENT " GET RID OF THE FCKRS AT THE TOP ".  THERE'D BE SOME COMPO BILL FOR ALL THE STAFF WHOSE CONTRACTS YOU'D TERMINATE.

2. Accountability. The people who brought us the puc debacle have been rewarded. The GAA press need to be critical and risk the trough.
YOU'RE AT YOU'RE  ONE TRACK  SUBJECT AGAIN. THE GAA BROKE ITS OWN RULES TO ALLOW THAT SOCCER MATCH TAKE PLACE.

3. Stop this anti sport attitude. Dublin and Kilkenny are where they are because of good decisions and graft. Handicapping them is not the approach, pull up your own socks.
NOBODY IS TALKING ABOUT HANDICAPPING KILKENNY.WITH ITS SMALL POPULATION THEY WERE BOUND TO BE CAUGHT UP WITH. DUBLIN WITH ITS HUGE POPULATION AND FUNDING IMBALANCE ON THE OTHER HAND....

4. That said the imbalance in funding is crazy. Back ambition wherever it is.

5. Infrastructure is all over the place. PuC, Casement, Tallaght. Disasters following no pattern.
WASN'T AWARE THE GAA HAD A STADIUM IN TALLAGHT. 
CASEMENT HIT PLANNING ISSUES AND NOW NO STORMONT,
PÁIRC FRANK REINFORCES THE CASE FOR MORE CENTRALISM IN THE GAA.

.
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: seafoid on February 07, 2019, 05:43:39 PM
So let's have your suggestions on what they should do.

1. Complete cleanout on Jones Road. Too many chefs, too many committees too many tinkerings to justify their existence. In general, leave it alone

2. Accountability. The people who brought us the puc debacle have been rewarded. The GAA press need to be critical and risk the trough.

3. Stop this anti sport attitude. Dublin and Kilkenny are where they are because of good decisions and graft. Handicapping them is not the approach, pull up your own socks.

4. That said the imbalance in funding is crazy. Back ambition wherever it is.

5. Infrastructure is all over the place. PuC, Casement, Tallaght. Disasters following no pattern.

.

I think the Dubs are a different kettle of fish to KK
The GAA didn't decide to fund KK systematically to the detriment of everyone else

The Dubs were a bit of joke between 1996 and 2008 say

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/fault-lines-appear-for-kerry-in-a-kingdom-under-pressure-1.3769567

 "Dublin’s transformation from 1970s nostalgia act to unprecedented juggernaut has forced Kerry football people – all Kerry people, in other words – to think differently about themselves. The old certainties have been stripped away with bewildering haste."

Not long ago you were saying the opposite seafoid! I suppose now that you have seen the Dubs up close against Galway you now realise the true nature of this animal. Talk of cycles has vanished?
I didn’t realise how lopsided the funding was FTB
And last year showed how far behind the peloton is.
We might get another all Ireland out of the hurlers;)

Football is a mess
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on February 07, 2019, 07:13:20 PM
So let's have your suggestions on what they should do.

1. Complete cleanout on Jones Road. Too many chefs, too many committees too many tinkerings to justify their existence. In general, leave it alone
SOUNDS LIKE A LATE NIGHT BARSTOOL COMMENT " GET RID OF THE FCKRS AT THE TOP ".  THERE'D BE SOME COMPO BILL FOR ALL THE STAFF WHOSE CONTRACTS YOU'D TERMINATE.

2. Accountability. The people who brought us the puc debacle have been rewarded. The GAA press need to be critical and risk the trough.
YOU'RE AT YOU'RE  ONE TRACK  SUBJECT AGAIN. THE GAA BROKE ITS OWN RULES TO ALLOW THAT SOCCER MATCH TAKE PLACE.

3. Stop this anti sport attitude. Dublin and Kilkenny are where they are because of good decisions and graft. Handicapping them is not the approach, pull up your own socks.
NOBODY IS TALKING ABOUT HANDICAPPING KILKENNY.WITH ITS SMALL POPULATION THEY WERE BOUND TO BE CAUGHT UP WITH. DUBLIN WITH ITS HUGE POPULATION AND FUNDING IMBALANCE ON THE OTHER HAND....

4. That said the imbalance in funding is crazy. Back ambition wherever it is.

5. Infrastructure is all over the place. PuC, Casement, Tallaght. Disasters following no pattern.
WASN'T AWARE THE GAA HAD A STADIUM IN TALLAGHT. 
CASEMENT HIT PLANNING ISSUES AND NOW NO STORMONT,
PÁIRC FRANK REINFORCES THE CASE FOR MORE CENTRALISM IN THE GAA.

.

1. Well isnt that the point? How do the GAA have more admin staff than the FAI and IRFU combined? Get rid of the committees.

2. I meant the cost and pitch debacle. And they absolutely did not.

3. So? Dublin is tbe biggest county, it should win more than it has. Nothing tbey have dobe cant be done elsewhere.

5. There isnt in Tallaght and it coat the GAA a million to still not have one. Casenent was the forgery of health and safety reports. PuC who knows. But the pattern is there. Fail. Fail. Fail.

There is a diffetence between centralisation and oversight.

People like you with the 'sure its grand' attitude and abusing me for being critical are a major problem.
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: manfromdelmonte on February 07, 2019, 07:46:52 PM
So let's have your suggestions on what they should do.

1. Complete cleanout on Jones Road. Too many chefs, too many committees too many tinkerings to justify their existence. In general, leave it alone
SOUNDS LIKE A LATE NIGHT BARSTOOL COMMENT " GET RID OF THE FCKRS AT THE TOP ".  THERE'D BE SOME COMPO BILL FOR ALL THE STAFF WHOSE CONTRACTS YOU'D TERMINATE.

2. Accountability. The people who brought us the puc debacle have been rewarded. The GAA press need to be critical and risk the trough.
YOU'RE AT YOU'RE  ONE TRACK  SUBJECT AGAIN. THE GAA BROKE ITS OWN RULES TO ALLOW THAT SOCCER MATCH TAKE PLACE.

3. Stop this anti sport attitude. Dublin and Kilkenny are where they are because of good decisions and graft. Handicapping them is not the approach, pull up your own socks.
NOBODY IS TALKING ABOUT HANDICAPPING KILKENNY.WITH ITS SMALL POPULATION THEY WERE BOUND TO BE CAUGHT UP WITH. DUBLIN WITH ITS HUGE POPULATION AND FUNDING IMBALANCE ON THE OTHER HAND....

4. That said the imbalance in funding is crazy. Back ambition wherever it is.

5. Infrastructure is all over the place. PuC, Casement, Tallaght. Disasters following no pattern.
WASN'T AWARE THE GAA HAD A STADIUM IN TALLAGHT. 
CASEMENT HIT PLANNING ISSUES AND NOW NO STORMONT,
PÁIRC FRANK REINFORCES THE CASE FOR MORE CENTRALISM IN THE GAA.

.

1. Well isnt that the point? How do the GAA have more admin staff than the FAI and IRFU combined? Get rid of the committees.

2. I meant the cost and pitch debacle. And they absolutely did not.

3. So? Dublin is tbe biggest county, it should win more than it has. Nothing tbey have dobe cant be done elsewhere.

5. There isnt in Tallaght and it coat the GAA a million to still not have one. Casenent was the forgery of health and safety reports. PuC who knows. But the pattern is there. Fail. Fail. Fail.

There is a diffetence between centralisation and oversight.

People like you with the 'sure its grand' attitude and abusing me for being critical are a major problem.
Take GAA HQ out of Dublin
Rent out offices in Croke Park to a company
Plenty of empty office space in Mulingar, Tullamore, Athlone or Portlaoise
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: From the Bunker on February 07, 2019, 08:40:30 PM
So let's have your suggestions on what they should do.

1. Complete cleanout on Jones Road. Too many chefs, too many committees too many tinkerings to justify their existence. In general, leave it alone

2. Accountability. The people who brought us the puc debacle have been rewarded. The GAA press need to be critical and risk the trough.

3. Stop this anti sport attitude. Dublin and Kilkenny are where they are because of good decisions and graft. Handicapping them is not the approach, pull up your own socks.

4. That said the imbalance in funding is crazy. Back ambition wherever it is.

5. Infrastructure is all over the place. PuC, Casement, Tallaght. Disasters following no pattern.

.

I think the Dubs are a different kettle of fish to KK
The GAA didn't decide to fund KK systematically to the detriment of everyone else

The Dubs were a bit of joke between 1996 and 2008 say

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/fault-lines-appear-for-kerry-in-a-kingdom-under-pressure-1.3769567

 "Dublin’s transformation from 1970s nostalgia act to unprecedented juggernaut has forced Kerry football people – all Kerry people, in other words – to think differently about themselves. The old certainties have been stripped away with bewildering haste."

Not long ago you were saying the opposite seafoid! I suppose now that you have seen the Dubs up close against Galway you now realise the true nature of this animal. Talk of cycles has vanished?
I didn’t realise how lopsided the funding was FTB
And last year showed how far behind the peloton is.
We might get another all Ireland out of the hurlers;)

Football is a mess

How? There has been pages and pages of articles, reports, graphs, etc posted on GAABOARD. You are always on here. How in the name of bejaysus did you miss all this? It's been like a sore thumb for half a decade now!
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: manfromdelmonte on February 07, 2019, 10:41:15 PM
So let's have your suggestions on what they should do.

1. Complete cleanout on Jones Road. Too many chefs, too many committees too many tinkerings to justify their existence. In general, leave it alone

2. Accountability. The people who brought us the puc debacle have been rewarded. The GAA press need to be critical and risk the trough.

3. Stop this anti sport attitude. Dublin and Kilkenny are where they are because of good decisions and graft. Handicapping them is not the approach, pull up your own socks.

4. That said the imbalance in funding is crazy. Back ambition wherever it is.

5. Infrastructure is all over the place. PuC, Casement, Tallaght. Disasters following no pattern.

.

I think the Dubs are a different kettle of fish to KK
The GAA didn't decide to fund KK systematically to the detriment of everyone else

The Dubs were a bit of joke between 1996 and 2008 say

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/fault-lines-appear-for-kerry-in-a-kingdom-under-pressure-1.3769567

 "Dublin’s transformation from 1970s nostalgia act to unprecedented juggernaut has forced Kerry football people – all Kerry people, in other words – to think differently about themselves. The old certainties have been stripped away with bewildering haste."

Not long ago you were saying the opposite seafoid! I suppose now that you have seen the Dubs up close against Galway you now realise the true nature of this animal. Talk of cycles has vanished?
I didn’t realise how lopsided the funding was FTB
And last year showed how far behind the peloton is.
We might get another all Ireland out of the hurlers;)

Football is a mess

How? There has been pages and pages of articles, reports, graphs, etc posted on GAABOARD. You are always on here. How in the name of bejaysus did you miss all this? It's been like a sore thumb for half a decade now!
As I said before, Dubs are like Brexiteers
Cannot deal with the facts
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: TheMaster on February 07, 2019, 11:08:15 PM
I love Hound's bit about asking Club members to put €14k of Clubs funds towards paying a coach......
That rules out about 90% of Clubs in most Counties.

Surely clubs should invest in promotion officers rather than paying outsider manager to manage their adult teams. Clann na Gael , St Brigids, Garrycastle and St Lomans all midland clubs paying outside managers 150-200 a training session. Stephen Rochford was 250 a session with Corofin and they trained 3 nights a week. James Horan was getting something similar with Westport.
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Rossfan on February 07, 2019, 11:32:52 PM
Clann and Brigids would be the 10% in Roscommon. ;)
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: caprea on February 08, 2019, 07:15:56 AM
I love Hound's bit about asking Club members to put €14k of Clubs funds towards paying a coach......
That rules out about 90% of Clubs in most Counties.

Surely clubs should invest in promotion officers rather than paying outsider manager to manage their adult teams. Clann na Gael , St Brigids, Garrycastle and St Lomans all midland clubs paying outside managers 150-200 a training session. Stephen Rochford was 250 a session with Corofin and they trained 3 nights a week. James Horan was getting something similar with Westport.

A bit pointless when Dublin clubs not only pay managers, they also pay outside the county players to play for them.
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Hound on February 08, 2019, 08:45:12 AM
I know of 3 clubs in the midlands who were willing to 50% fund a full time coach, shared between the 3 clubs.
They had a club coaching plan, funding plan, and school coaching plan all in place and they went looking for matching funding
No matching funding available at county or provincial level.

That's shocking if true.
Goes against all information given by the GAA in relation to such funding.
Let's find out if it is true.

Start by the naming the clubs involved and we'll go from there.


As I said before, Dubs are like Brexiteers
Cannot deal with the facts

C'mon let's get the facts.

You hardly just made that up. Did you?
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: No1 on February 08, 2019, 09:07:02 AM
Quote
Fundamentally, where the suits need put in order, is this.

1. Core values of community and volunteering need stamped on their foreheads, sent as daily reminders, typed in 10 foot letters at the top of every letter or enail they read. Every decision they make needs to be evaluated against how it improves the Association for communities and volunteers. If it doesn’t help them, don’t proceed..

2. Strategies, annual budgets and forecasts should focus on minimising expenditure, and not maximising revenue. This concept does not rule out large infrastructure projects or a commitment to coaching; as both provide advantages to members. But it should minimise the desire/need/will to collect pits of cash and then decide what to spend it on. The purpose of this organisation should never be to gather money.

This.  100% this.
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: johnnycool on February 08, 2019, 09:29:57 AM
Quote
Fundamentally, where the suits need put in order, is this.

1. Core values of community and volunteering need stamped on their foreheads, sent as daily reminders, typed in 10 foot letters at the top of every letter or enail they read. Every decision they make needs to be evaluated against how it improves the Association for communities and volunteers. If it doesn’t help them, don’t proceed..

2. Strategies, annual budgets and forecasts should focus on minimising expenditure, and not maximising revenue. This concept does not rule out large infrastructure projects or a commitment to coaching; as both provide advantages to members. But it should minimise the desire/need/will to collect pits of cash and then decide what to spend it on. The purpose of this organisation should never be to gather money.

This.  100% this.

That's what happens when you go chasing the business school/corporate types to run the organisation.

Before you know it revenue growth, leveraging synergies and so forth take precedence over everything else.

Supporters and volunteers are then just cash cows to eek every single brass farthing out off.
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Rossfan on February 08, 2019, 09:47:30 AM
What do ye think of us (The GAA) buying Clonliffe College?
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: magpie seanie on February 08, 2019, 11:04:21 AM
I know of 3 clubs in the midlands who were willing to 50% fund a full time coach, shared between the 3 clubs.
They had a club coaching plan, funding plan, and school coaching plan all in place and they went looking for matching funding
No matching funding available at county or provincial level.

That's shocking if true.
Goes against all information given by the GAA in relation to such funding.
Let's find out if it is true.

Start by the naming the clubs involved and we'll go from there.


As I said before, Dubs are like Brexiteers
Cannot deal with the facts

C'mon let's get the facts.

You hardly just made that up. Did you?


Honestly Hound I'd say you're barking up the wrong tree here. I know for a fact if my own club could get a coach for just €14k we'd have done it but there's no matching funds anywhere. As a county, Sligo has only 4 and one of them (hurling GPO) has to work a day a week in Leitrim. I'd guess here are clubs in Dublin who have more coaches.
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: westbound on February 08, 2019, 11:04:36 AM
What do ye think of us (The GAA) buying Clonliffe College?

As per Peter McKenna

"our plan is to develop the site to deliver extensive GAA facilities, a new hotel to complement a proposed Cusack Stand redevelopment and, importantly, entering into a partnership with a developer to deliver substantial social and affordable housing,"

What business does the GAA have in building a hotel?
What business does the GAA have in building houses?

Also, whats the cusack stand redevelopment that is proposed?

If the site is going to be sold anyway, it might make sense for the GAA to purchase it, rather than letting it go to a 3rd party who could build anything there that might not suit the GAA. But I don't see how building hotels and houses promote the activities of the GAA.
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: highorlow on February 08, 2019, 11:09:02 AM
Quote
What business does the GAA have in building a hotel?

Isn't the Croke Park Hotel the GAA's? I suppose it goes hand in hand with the corporate events that take place in HQ during the year. I stand corrected but I think they own Gills pub too?
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Rossfan on February 08, 2019, 11:21:29 AM
Anyone know what the proposed Cusack Stand redevelopment might entail?
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on February 08, 2019, 11:27:18 AM
Anyone know what the proposed Cusack Stand redevelopment might entail?

I have some vague memory of a plan to do a big walkway, Wembley style, where Sackville Avenue now is. Have your pint and burger there. The flats are gone, so maybe its back on the table
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on February 08, 2019, 11:49:44 AM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/croke-park-property-owners-against-new-route-to-and-from-stadium-826499.html

Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: manfromdelmonte on February 08, 2019, 11:27:55 PM
Anyone know what the proposed Cusack Stand redevelopment might entail?

I have some vague memory of a plan to do a big walkway, Wembley style, where Sackville Avenue now is. Have your pint and burger there. The flats are gone, so maybe its back on the table
There is something being built there at the moment
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: seafoid on February 09, 2019, 07:23:02 AM
So let's have your suggestions on what they should do.

1. Complete cleanout on Jones Road. Too many chefs, too many committees too many tinkerings to justify their existence. In general, leave it alone

2. Accountability. The people who brought us the puc debacle have been rewarded. The GAA press need to be critical and risk the trough.

3. Stop this anti sport attitude. Dublin and Kilkenny are where they are because of good decisions and graft. Handicapping them is not the approach, pull up your own socks.

4. That said the imbalance in funding is crazy. Back ambition wherever it is.

5. Infrastructure is all over the place. PuC, Casement, Tallaght. Disasters following no pattern.

.

I think the Dubs are a different kettle of fish to KK
The GAA didn't decide to fund KK systematically to the detriment of everyone else

The Dubs were a bit of joke between 1996 and 2008 say

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/fault-lines-appear-for-kerry-in-a-kingdom-under-pressure-1.3769567

 "Dublin’s transformation from 1970s nostalgia act to unprecedented juggernaut has forced Kerry football people – all Kerry people, in other words – to think differently about themselves. The old certainties have been stripped away with bewildering haste."

Not long ago you were saying the opposite seafoid! I suppose now that you have seen the Dubs up close against Galway you now realise the true nature of this animal. Talk of cycles has vanished?
I didn’t realise how lopsided the funding was FTB
And last year showed how far behind the peloton is.
We might get another all Ireland out of the hurlers;)

Football is a mess

How? There has been pages and pages of articles, reports, graphs, etc posted on GAABOARD. You are always on here. How in the name of bejaysus did you miss all this? It's been like a sore thumb for half a decade now!
I thought Mayo would win at least one of those finals. So did many  people.
Mayo made it look like there was competition .

When Mayo fell away last year there was nobody.
The Wexford 4 in a row ran out of gas . The Kerry 4 in a row were beaten by a very good team. Tipp had been improving before Lar Corbett killed the drive for 5.
But now it looks like a procession for the Dubs.

Funding Dublin now is even worse because that’s where most of the money
is in the country as a result of the economic system.
They closed Tigh an Phoist in Corca Dhuibhne yesterday.
 Would be close to O Sé country. Football parishes all over are subject to the same forces.

Dublin is like Paris St Germain at this stage.

https://youtu.be/KJKbDz4EZio
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on February 09, 2019, 12:29:59 PM
So its Dublin GAA's fault thst rural Ireland is unsustsinable?
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: caprea on February 09, 2019, 12:40:20 PM
So its Dublin GAA's fault thst rural Ireland is unsustsinable?

If rural Ireland is unsustainable then the present intercounty system in GAA is unsustainable so what’s easier to do? Write off the county of Dublin in its present state or write off the entire rest of Ireland?
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: manfromdelmonte on February 09, 2019, 04:36:17 PM
So its Dublin GAA's fault thst rural Ireland is unsustsinable?
It's unsustainable due to almost all development  investment going into the Dublin  region
Both by the government and the GAA.

Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Hound on February 09, 2019, 07:48:33 PM
I know of 3 clubs in the midlands who were willing to 50% fund a full time coach, shared between the 3 clubs.
They had a club coaching plan, funding plan, and school coaching plan all in place and they went looking for matching funding
No matching funding available at county or provincial level.

That's shocking if true.
Goes against all information given by the GAA in relation to such funding.
Let's find out if it is true.

Start by the naming the clubs involved and we'll go from there.


As I said before, Dubs are like Brexiteers
Cannot deal with the facts

C'mon let's get the facts.

You hardly just made that up. Did you?


Honestly Hound I'd say you're barking up the wrong tree here. I know for a fact if my own club could get a coach for just €14k we'd have done it but there's no matching funds anywhere. As a county, Sligo has only 4 and one of them (hurling GPO) has to work a day a week in Leitrim. I'd guess here are clubs in Dublin who have more coaches.
I don't think that's true. If you have the €14k, then the GAA gives you the other €14k. But no club outside Dublin has done this.

Every one of these coaches that is outside Dublin has been funded 100% by the GAA. Only in Dublin have clubs had to stump up 50% (which is fair as half their time is with the club, and half is with schools, so the former funded by the club, the latter funded by the GAA)
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: manfromdelmonte on February 09, 2019, 08:42:10 PM
I know of 3 clubs in the midlands who were willing to 50% fund a full time coach, shared between the 3 clubs.
They had a club coaching plan, funding plan, and school coaching plan all in place and they went looking for matching funding
No matching funding available at county or provincial level.

That's shocking if true.
Goes against all information given by the GAA in relation to such funding.
Let's find out if it is true.

Start by the naming the clubs involved and we'll go from there.


As I said before, Dubs are like Brexiteers
Cannot deal with the facts

C'mon let's get the facts.

You hardly just made that up. Did you?


Honestly Hound I'd say you're barking up the wrong tree here. I know for a fact if my own club could get a coach for just €14k we'd have done it but there's no matching funds anywhere. As a county, Sligo has only 4 and one of them (hurling GPO) has to work a day a week in Leitrim. I'd guess here are clubs in Dublin who have more coaches.
I don't think that's true. If you have the €14k, then the GAA gives you the other €14k. But no club outside Dublin has done this.

Every one of these coaches that is outside Dublin has been funded 100% by the GAA. Only in Dublin have clubs had to stump up 50% (which is fair as half their time is with the club, and half is with schools, so the former funded by the club, the latter funded by the GAA)
What club outside Dublin has a coach funded?
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: From the Bunker on February 09, 2019, 09:47:06 PM
You look at this and you see different lives.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-MlW1VbTkA&t=81s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-MlW1VbTkA&t=81s)
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Lar Naparka on February 09, 2019, 10:18:20 PM
For what it’s worth, I wish people would shut the f**k up about Dublin getting larger grants.

A quarter of the population live in that county. If they weren’t receiving an exceptional percentage of overall funding spend, it would be wholly unfair on people born in Dublin, and would be detrimental to the GAA’s grassroots policy of “get them involved with their club early, get them involved for life”.

This is NOT a modern GAA problem. This one rolls all the way back to 1884, when the core constructs of the Association were founded upon the well-meaning and identity-building - but fundamentally imbalanced - partition of jurisdictions according to county lines.

It just so happens that Dublin have come across a golden generation of players at the same time that social media has enabled every dimwit across the land to have an opinion, and to drumbeat the populist narrative. The Dublin dominance issue will  fix itself in a couple of year, except the dimwits in 10 years time will then be yelping about how the GAA needs a strong Dublin.


——-

Fundamentally, where the suits need put in order, is this.

1. Core values of community and volunteering need stamped on their foreheads, sent as daily reminders, typed in 10 foot letters at the top of every letter or enail they read. Every decision they make needs to be evaluated against how it improves the Association for communities and volunteers. If it doesn’t help them, don’t proceed..

2. Strategies, annual budgets and forecasts should focus on minimising expenditure, and not maximising revenue. This concept does not rule out large infrastructure projects or a commitment to coaching; as both provide advantages to members. But it should minimise the desire/need/will to collect pits of cash and then decide what to spend it on. The purpose of this organisation should never be to gather money.

——
I think you are missing the point here. The development grant(s) are not dished out to counties but per individual player. Going by the last published figures I know of, (2010-2014) Dublin got over €274 per individual, regardless of status.By comparison each  Mayo was paid €22 (or thereabouts) and Kerry got the princely sum of €19 for every player they had registered.
For the record, Dublin has easily the lowest participation rate of any county in Ireland. Here I am talking about active participation as players or supporters.
No rocket science involved here- say Dublin play Longford and 50% of the population of Longford turn up, whereas it would be unlikely that Dublin would bring anywhere near 5% of its population along. Which county would have the greater support at the game?
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Hound on February 09, 2019, 10:41:38 PM
I know of 3 clubs in the midlands who were willing to 50% fund a full time coach, shared between the 3 clubs.
They had a club coaching plan, funding plan, and school coaching plan all in place and they went looking for matching funding
No matching funding available at county or provincial level.

That's shocking if true.
Goes against all information given by the GAA in relation to such funding.
Let's find out if it is true.

Start by the naming the clubs involved and we'll go from there.


As I said before, Dubs are like Brexiteers
Cannot deal with the facts

C'mon let's get the facts.

You hardly just made that up. Did you?


Honestly Hound I'd say you're barking up the wrong tree here. I know for a fact if my own club could get a coach for just €14k we'd have done it but there's no matching funds anywhere. As a county, Sligo has only 4 and one of them (hurling GPO) has to work a day a week in Leitrim. I'd guess here are clubs in Dublin who have more coaches.
I don't think that's true. If you have the €14k, then the GAA gives you the other €14k. But no club outside Dublin has done this.

Every one of these coaches that is outside Dublin has been funded 100% by the GAA. Only in Dublin have clubs had to stump up 50% (which is fair as half their time is with the club, and half is with schools, so the former funded by the club, the latter funded by the GAA)
What club outside Dublin has a coach funded?
Every coach outside of Dublin. There's about 100 in Leinster (outside Dublin). Unlike in Dublin, the clubs contribute nothing, 100% funded by GAA
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Hound on February 09, 2019, 10:49:54 PM
For what it’s worth, I wish people would shut the f**k up about Dublin getting larger grants.

A quarter of the population live in that county. If they weren’t receiving an exceptional percentage of overall funding spend, it would be wholly unfair on people born in Dublin, and would be detrimental to the GAA’s grassroots policy of “get them involved with their club early, get them involved for life”.

This is NOT a modern GAA problem. This one rolls all the way back to 1884, when the core constructs of the Association were founded upon the well-meaning and identity-building - but fundamentally imbalanced - partition of jurisdictions according to county lines.

It just so happens that Dublin have come across a golden generation of players at the same time that social media has enabled every dimwit across the land to have an opinion, and to drumbeat the populist narrative. The Dublin dominance issue will  fix itself in a couple of year, except the dimwits in 10 years time will then be yelping about how the GAA needs a strong Dublin.


——-

Fundamentally, where the suits need put in order, is this.

1. Core values of community and volunteering need stamped on their foreheads, sent as daily reminders, typed in 10 foot letters at the top of every letter or enail they read. Every decision they make needs to be evaluated against how it improves the Association for communities and volunteers. If it doesn’t help them, don’t proceed..

2. Strategies, annual budgets and forecasts should focus on minimising expenditure, and not maximising revenue. This concept does not rule out large infrastructure projects or a commitment to coaching; as both provide advantages to members. But it should minimise the desire/need/will to collect pits of cash and then decide what to spend it on. The purpose of this organisation should never be to gather money.

——
I think you are missing the point here. The development grant(s) are not dished out to counties but per individual player. Going by the last published figures I know of, (2010-2014) Dublin got over €274 per individual, regardless of status.By comparison each  Mayo was paid €22 (or thereabouts) and Kerry got the princely sum of €19 for every player they had registered.
For the record, Dublin has easily the lowest participation rate of any county in Ireland. Here I am talking about active participation as players or supporters.
No rocket science involved here- say Dublin play Longford and 50% of the population of Longford turn up, whereas it would be unlikely that Dublin would bring anywhere near 5% of its population along. Which county would have the greater support at the game?
Lots of apples and oranges there Lar.

here's the actual breakdown:


Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Farrandeelin on February 09, 2019, 10:58:08 PM
Not all primary school children are members of the GAA. Lar was putting forward €/player I think.
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Hound on February 09, 2019, 11:03:52 PM
Not all primary school children are members of the GAA. Lar was putting forward €/player I think.
Exactly. That's the apples and oranges bit.

€/player is completely irrelevant. The funds are largely aimed at the children in the 4-12 age bracket, whether members or not.





Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: manfromdelmonte on February 09, 2019, 11:15:01 PM
Not all primary school children are members of the GAA. Lar was putting forward €/player I think.
Exactly. That's the apples and oranges bit.

€/player is completely irrelevant. The funds are largely aimed at the children in the 4-12 age bracket, whether members or not.
What about the kids in schools down thr country getting no coaching visits?
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: TheMaster on February 09, 2019, 11:40:33 PM
You look at this and you see different

+1 i
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Hound on February 10, 2019, 07:50:25 AM
Not all primary school children are members of the GAA. Lar was putting forward €/player I think.
Exactly. That's the apples and oranges bit.

€/player is completely irrelevant. The funds are largely aimed at the children in the 4-12 age bracket, whether members or not.
What about the kids in schools down thr country getting no coaching visits?
This is the whole misconception.

Do you think it was the Raheny GPO that turned Brian Fenton and Howard into great footballers? People seem to think they do. But he'd practically zero contact with them. It was the parents of the club teams.

How do Kerry produce 5 minor winning teams in a row? Where's their GPOs? It's the parents at the clubs do the main coaching. Then I presume, like in Dublin, they've plenty of ex-Kerry footballers giving their time when they get onto Kerry development squads.

What the GPO does, primarily, is try to get more players to play. In Kerry, if you're a top footballer, then it's probably 90%+ certain, you're going to pick gaelic. In Coolock, you're 90% certain to pick soccer, same with Balbriggan. The latter, one of the biggest towns in Dublin, can't even field a minor team on their own this year.

If you're in a town/village where every young lad plays GAA, then a GPO would be practically irrelevant. I'm sure every primary school in Kerry has gaelic for PE every single week. And for the 50% of the GPO's time spent in Dublin clubs, well the members fund that half out of their own pockets.

The GAA are focusing their GPO spend outside of Dublin in areas where they see there is most competition. About 100 coaches in Leinster I believe. And clubs/members not asked for the 50%, unlike in Dublin.
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: From the Bunker on February 10, 2019, 09:19:29 AM
You look at this and you see different

+1 i

Don't misquote me!
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: manfromdelmonte on February 10, 2019, 09:36:21 AM
Not all primary school children are members of the GAA. Lar was putting forward €/player I think.
Exactly. That's the apples and oranges bit.

€/player is completely irrelevant. The funds are largely aimed at the children in the 4-12 age bracket, whether members or not.
What about the kids in schools down thr country getting no coaching visits?
This is the whole misconception.

Do you think it was the Raheny GPO that turned Brian Fenton and Howard into great footballers? People seem to think they do. But he'd practically zero contact with them. It was the parents of the club teams.

How do Kerry produce 5 minor winning teams in a row? Where's their GPOs? It's the parents at the clubs do the main coaching. Then I presume, like in Dublin, they've plenty of ex-Kerry footballers giving their time when they get onto Kerry development squads.

What the GPO does, primarily, is try to get more players to play. In Kerry, if you're a top footballer, then it's probably 90%+ certain, you're going to pick gaelic. In Coolock, you're 90% certain to pick soccer, same with Balbriggan. The latter, one of the biggest towns in Dublin, can't even field a minor team on their own this year.

If you're in a town/village where every young lad plays GAA, then a GPO would be practically irrelevant. I'm sure every primary school in Kerry has gaelic for PE every single week. And for the 50% of the GPO's time spent in Dublin clubs, well the members fund that half out of their own pockets.

The GAA are focusing their GPO spend outside of Dublin in areas where they see there is most competition. About 100 coaches in Leinster I believe. And clubs/members not asked for the 50%, unlike in Dublin.
The coaches in Leinster are county board coaches
Most of them are part time

I know schools that don't receive any GAA coaching, for whatever reason.
Therefore there could be a few children in the school who have loads of talent and could be the next county player

Don't assume every child in rural Ireland plays. That is not the case at all.
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: seafoid on February 10, 2019, 10:18:26 AM
So its Dublin GAA's fault thst rural Ireland is unsustsinable?
It's unsustainable due to almost all development  investment going into the Dublin  region
Both by the government and the GAA.
The GAA is a Neoliberal organisation now
Joe Brolly would back me up on this

We need a new economic system
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Rossfan on February 10, 2019, 10:20:29 AM
Free admission and pay the players?
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: manfromdelmonte on February 10, 2019, 11:18:04 AM
So its Dublin GAA's fault thst rural Ireland is unsustsinable?
It's unsustainable due to almost all development  investment going into the Dublin  region
Both by the government and the GAA.
The GAA is a Neoliberal organisation now
Joe Brolly would back me up on this

We need a new economic system
No it's a perfectly formed communist system
Portrays itself as everyone being equal, but clearly some are more equal than others
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Hound on February 11, 2019, 09:09:45 AM
So its Dublin GAA's fault thst rural Ireland is unsustsinable?
It's unsustainable due to almost all development  investment going into the Dublin  region
Both by the government and the GAA.
The GAA is a Neoliberal organisation now
Joe Brolly would back me up on this

We need a new economic system
No it's a perfectly formed communist system
Portrays itself as everyone being equal, but clearly some are more equal than others
Yeah, and you make sweeping generalisations, and when asked to back them up, you just ignore!

"I know this club...."  "I know this school...." 
Of course you do!

And, of course, the 100 full-time paid coaches in Leinster are far weaker than the paid coaches in Dublin!!
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: manfromdelmonte on February 11, 2019, 09:56:00 AM
So its Dublin GAA's fault thst rural Ireland is unsustsinable?
It's unsustainable due to almost all development  investment going into the Dublin  region
Both by the government and the GAA.
The GAA is a Neoliberal organisation now
Joe Brolly would back me up on this

We need a new economic system
No it's a perfectly formed communist system
Portrays itself as everyone being equal, but clearly some are more equal than others
Yeah, and you make sweeping generalisations, and when asked to back them up, you just ignore!

"I know this club...."  "I know this school...." 
Of course you do!

And, of course, the 100 full-time paid coaches in Leinster are far weaker than the paid coaches in Dublin!!
Ok. I was involved in a club and schools in Dublin for a few years, I know the setup there very well.
I am involved with clubs and schools down the country, I know the setup there.

the two of them are night and day. even the way the schools GAA is run. Sure Dublin have a full time person to look after the primary schools competitions.
If there are 100 'paid' coaches in Leinster, majority are part time and many only do one day a week in a local school.
But most Dubs don't seem to understand that.
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Lar Naparka on February 11, 2019, 12:02:47 PM
For what it’s worth, I wish people would shut the f**k up about Dublin getting larger grants.

A quarter of the population live in that county. If they weren’t receiving an exceptional percentage of overall funding spend, it would be wholly unfair on people born in Dublin, and would be detrimental to the GAA’s grassroots policy of “get them involved with their club early, get them involved for life”.

This is NOT a modern GAA problem. This one rolls all the way back to 1884, when the core constructs of the Association were founded upon the well-meaning and identity-building - but fundamentally imbalanced - partition of jurisdictions according to county lines.

It just so happens that Dublin have come across a golden generation of players at the same time that social media has enabled every dimwit across the land to have an opinion, and to drumbeat the populist narrative. The Dublin dominance issue will  fix itself in a couple of year, except the dimwits in 10 years time will then be yelping about how the GAA needs a strong Dublin.


——-

Fundamentally, where the suits need put in order, is this.

1. Core values of community and volunteering need stamped on their foreheads, sent as daily reminders, typed in 10 foot letters at the top of every letter or enail they read. Every decision they make needs to be evaluated against how it improves the Association for communities and volunteers. If it doesn’t help them, don’t proceed..

2. Strategies, annual budgets and forecasts should focus on minimising expenditure, and not maximising revenue. This concept does not rule out large infrastructure projects or a commitment to coaching; as both provide advantages to members. But it should minimise the desire/need/will to collect pits of cash and then decide what to spend it on. The purpose of this organisation should never be to gather money.

——
I think you are missing the point here. The development grant(s) are not dished out to counties but per individual player. Going by the last published figures I know of, (2010-2014) Dublin got over €274 per individual, regardless of status.By comparison each  Mayo was paid €22 (or thereabouts) and Kerry got the princely sum of €19 for every player they had registered.
For the record, Dublin has easily the lowest participation rate of any county in Ireland. Here I am talking about active participation as players or supporters.
No rocket science involved here- say Dublin play Longford and 50% of the population of Longford turn up, whereas it would be unlikely that Dublin would bring anywhere near 5% of its population along. Which county would have the greater support at the game?
Lots of apples and oranges there Lar.

here's the actual breakdown:


Sorry Hound, I couldn’t respond sooner than now.
I don’t doubt your word and if the info you posted is relevant in some way to the discussion in hand, I’ll take your word for it.


But, for the life of me, I can’t make head nor tail of what these stats mean!
I take it that it’s the General Development Fund’s grants to primary schools. Now, who got the money, the principal or a particular GAA club?
Was there specific conditions attached to the payment of these grants?
I am going to assume that the dosh was given to some club or other and from there on, it was (is?) up to the club to devise a training schedule to qualify for the money from the GDF.
Otherwise, I cannot see how the scheme could operate. Farr will tell you that no school principal could allow any outsider to dictate school policy with regard to activities of any sort during school hours.
So, who gets the money and what are the duties /requirements to qualify for the it?
I was heavily involved with primary schools GAA for decades in Finglas and I had (still) have excellent relations with the Isles.
They were the first club I heard of to begin sending young players out to schools in the area to help coach kids after hours and, in some cases, they assisted schools in fielding teams for competitions but , again school policy wouldn’t allow a complete takeover of anything to do with the school by anyone  who could be termed an outsider. Insurance complications involved otherwise.
Now, with three teachers heavily involved in pushing Gah games within my school and with every possible help from the Isles there was never a pickup of more than 5% of pupis who stayed with the club after they left the school and moved n to secondary level.
What I am leading up to is that allocating cash for kids who are not going to be of any use to the GAA  after they leave primary school is a bit daft to me.
My county allegiances is one thing but I am a Gah man at heart and I’d love to see kids everywhere playing the native games but I don’t see any major increase in participation in any clubs or schools I am aware of.
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: manfromdelmonte on February 11, 2019, 02:01:38 PM
For what it’s worth, I wish people would shut the f**k up about Dublin getting larger grants.

A quarter of the population live in that county. If they weren’t receiving an exceptional percentage of overall funding spend, it would be wholly unfair on people born in Dublin, and would be detrimental to the GAA’s grassroots policy of “get them involved with their club early, get them involved for life”.

This is NOT a modern GAA problem. This one rolls all the way back to 1884, when the core constructs of the Association were founded upon the well-meaning and identity-building - but fundamentally imbalanced - partition of jurisdictions according to county lines.

It just so happens that Dublin have come across a golden generation of players at the same time that social media has enabled every dimwit across the land to have an opinion, and to drumbeat the populist narrative. The Dublin dominance issue will  fix itself in a couple of year, except the dimwits in 10 years time will then be yelping about how the GAA needs a strong Dublin.


——-

Fundamentally, where the suits need put in order, is this.

1. Core values of community and volunteering need stamped on their foreheads, sent as daily reminders, typed in 10 foot letters at the top of every letter or enail they read. Every decision they make needs to be evaluated against how it improves the Association for communities and volunteers. If it doesn’t help them, don’t proceed..

2. Strategies, annual budgets and forecasts should focus on minimising expenditure, and not maximising revenue. This concept does not rule out large infrastructure projects or a commitment to coaching; as both provide advantages to members. But it should minimise the desire/need/will to collect pits of cash and then decide what to spend it on. The purpose of this organisation should never be to gather money.

——
I think you are missing the point here. The development grant(s) are not dished out to counties but per individual player. Going by the last published figures I know of, (2010-2014) Dublin got over €274 per individual, regardless of status.By comparison each  Mayo was paid €22 (or thereabouts) and Kerry got the princely sum of €19 for every player they had registered.
For the record, Dublin has easily the lowest participation rate of any county in Ireland. Here I am talking about active participation as players or supporters.
No rocket science involved here- say Dublin play Longford and 50% of the population of Longford turn up, whereas it would be unlikely that Dublin would bring anywhere near 5% of its population along. Which county would have the greater support at the game?
Lots of apples and oranges there Lar.

here's the actual breakdown:


Sorry Hound, I couldn’t respond sooner than now.
I don’t doubt your word and if the info you posted is relevant in some way to the discussion in hand, I’ll take your word for it.


But, for the life of me, I can’t make head nor tail of what these stats mean!
I take it that it’s the General Development Fund’s grants to primary schools. Now, who got the money, the principal or a particular GAA club?
Was there specific conditions attached to the payment of these grants?
I am going to assume that the dosh was given to some club or other and from there on, it was (is?) up to the club to devise a training schedule to qualify for the money from the GDF.
Otherwise, I cannot see how the scheme could operate. Farr will tell you that no school principal could allow any outsider to dictate school policy with regard to activities of any sort during school hours.
So, who gets the money and what are the duties /requirements to qualify for the it?
I was heavily involved with primary schools GAA for decades in Finglas and I had (still) have excellent relations with the Isles.
They were the first club I heard of to begin sending young players out to schools in the area to help coach kids after hours and, in some cases, they assisted schools in fielding teams for competitions but , again school policy wouldn’t allow a complete takeover of anything to do with the school by anyone  who could be termed an outsider. Insurance complications involved otherwise.
Now, with three teachers heavily involved in pushing Gah games within my school and with every possible help from the Isles there was never a pickup of more than 5% of pupis who stayed with the club after they left the school and moved n to secondary level.
What I am leading up to is that allocating cash for kids who are not going to be of any use to the GAA  after they leave primary school is a bit daft to me.
My county allegiances is one thing but I am a Gah man at heart and I’d love to see kids everywhere playing the native games but I don’t see any major increase in participation in any clubs or schools I am aware of.
money is never given directly to schools
and just because a school has a big number of pupils doesn't mean they are all getting coaching by the county board provided coaching hours.
eg in our county all the coaching hours given to schools are focused on the junior and senior infants and fundamental skills (I personally think this is the wrong age group to be funding coaching for) for usually a six week block. So 75% of the pupils in the school get no contact time with a GAA coach.
Whereas in Dublin the coaching model is different and much more on getting the kids out playing the sport and down to the local club, which is a much better model.
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Lar Naparka on February 11, 2019, 08:52:54 PM
For what it’s worth, I wish people would shut the f**k up about Dublin getting larger grants.

A quarter of the population live in that county. If they weren’t receiving an exceptional percentage of overall funding spend, it would be wholly unfair on people born in Dublin, and would be detrimental to the GAA’s grassroots policy of “get them involved with their club early, get them involved for life”.

This is NOT a modern GAA problem. This one rolls all the way back to 1884, when the core constructs of the Association were founded upon the well-meaning and identity-building - but fundamentally imbalanced - partition of jurisdictions according to county lines.

It just so happens that Dublin have come across a golden generation of players at the same time that social media has enabled every dimwit across the land to have an opinion, and to drumbeat the populist narrative. The Dublin dominance issue will  fix itself in a couple of year, except the dimwits in 10 years time will then be yelping about how the GAA needs a strong Dublin.


——-

Fundamentally, where the suits need put in order, is this.

1. Core values of community and volunteering need stamped on their foreheads, sent as daily reminders, typed in 10 foot letters at the top of every letter or enail they read. Every decision they make needs to be evaluated against how it improves the Association for communities and volunteers. If it doesn’t help them, don’t proceed..

2. Strategies, annual budgets and forecasts should focus on minimising expenditure, and not maximising revenue. This concept does not rule out large infrastructure projects or a commitment to coaching; as both provide advantages to members. But it should minimise the desire/need/will to collect pits of cash and then decide what to spend it on. The purpose of this organisation should never be to gather money.

——
I think you are missing the point here. The development grant(s) are not dished out to counties but per individual player. Going by the last published figures I know of, (2010-2014) Dublin got over €274 per individual, regardless of status.By comparison each  Mayo was paid €22 (or thereabouts) and Kerry got the princely sum of €19 for every player they had registered.
For the record, Dublin has easily the lowest participation rate of any county in Ireland. Here I am talking about active participation as players or supporters.
No rocket science involved here- say Dublin play Longford and 50% of the population of Longford turn up, whereas it would be unlikely that Dublin would bring anywhere near 5% of its population along. Which county would have the greater support at the game?
Lots of apples and oranges there Lar.

here's the actual breakdown:


Sorry Hound, I couldn’t respond sooner than now.
I don’t doubt your word and if the info you posted is relevant in some way to the discussion in hand, I’ll take your word for it.


But, for the life of me, I can’t make head nor tail of what these stats mean!
I take it that it’s the General Development Fund’s grants to primary schools. Now, who got the money, the principal or a particular GAA club?
Was there specific conditions attached to the payment of these grants?
I am going to assume that the dosh was given to some club or other and from there on, it was (is?) up to the club to devise a training schedule to qualify for the money from the GDF.
Otherwise, I cannot see how the scheme could operate. Farr will tell you that no school principal could allow any outsider to dictate school policy with regard to activities of any sort during school hours.
So, who gets the money and what are the duties /requirements to qualify for the it?
I was heavily involved with primary schools GAA for decades in Finglas and I had (still) have excellent relations with the Isles.
They were the first club I heard of to begin sending young players out to schools in the area to help coach kids after hours and, in some cases, they assisted schools in fielding teams for competitions but , again school policy wouldn’t allow a complete takeover of anything to do with the school by anyone  who could be termed an outsider. Insurance complications involved otherwise.
Now, with three teachers heavily involved in pushing Gah games within my school and with every possible help from the Isles there was never a pickup of more than 5% of pupis who stayed with the club after they left the school and moved n to secondary level.
What I am leading up to is that allocating cash for kids who are not going to be of any use to the GAA  after they leave primary school is a bit daft to me.
My county allegiances is one thing but I am a Gah man at heart and I’d love to see kids everywhere playing the native games but I don’t see any major increase in participation in any clubs or schools I am aware of.
money is never given directly to schools
and just because a school has a big number of pupils doesn't mean they are all getting coaching by the county board provided coaching hours.
eg in our county all the coaching hours given to schools are focused on the junior and senior infants and fundamental skills (I personally think this is the wrong age group to be funding coaching for) for usually a six week block. So 75% of the pupils in the school get no contact time with a GAA coach.
Whereas in Dublin the coaching model is different and much more on getting the kids out playing the sport and down to the local club, which is a much better model.
Fair enough, I can follow your meaning but it doesn’t answer the questions I put to Hound.
Originally, I was referring to the row that kicked off the Dublin, GAA and Money  (or whatever) thread. The infographic URL posted around post #5 or 6 was what I considered the actual report.
Until Hound put up the one we are talking about now, I had never heard of its existence and I still don’t see what relevance it has to GDF initiatives to promote coaching to any children, boys or girls.
If, as it appears to me, the money is given to local clubs and is based on the numbers of school children in the area, then Dublin must be even more in front of the posse than I thought.
That just cannot possibly be the case.
Anyway, on a wider issue, is there any way of keeping tabs on central funds given to clubs for GD work? Is there any degree of accountability or scrutiny involved?
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: manfromdelmonte on February 11, 2019, 10:41:30 PM
For what it’s worth, I wish people would shut the f**k up about Dublin getting larger grants.

A quarter of the population live in that county. If they weren’t receiving an exceptional percentage of overall funding spend, it would be wholly unfair on people born in Dublin, and would be detrimental to the GAA’s grassroots policy of “get them involved with their club early, get them involved for life”.

This is NOT a modern GAA problem. This one rolls all the way back to 1884, when the core constructs of the Association were founded upon the well-meaning and identity-building - but fundamentally imbalanced - partition of jurisdictions according to county lines.

It just so happens that Dublin have come across a golden generation of players at the same time that social media has enabled every dimwit across the land to have an opinion, and to drumbeat the populist narrative. The Dublin dominance issue will  fix itself in a couple of year, except the dimwits in 10 years time will then be yelping about how the GAA needs a strong Dublin.


——-

Fundamentally, where the suits need put in order, is this.

1. Core values of community and volunteering need stamped on their foreheads, sent as daily reminders, typed in 10 foot letters at the top of every letter or enail they read. Every decision they make needs to be evaluated against how it improves the Association for communities and volunteers. If it doesn’t help them, don’t proceed..

2. Strategies, annual budgets and forecasts should focus on minimising expenditure, and not maximising revenue. This concept does not rule out large infrastructure projects or a commitment to coaching; as both provide advantages to members. But it should minimise the desire/need/will to collect pits of cash and then decide what to spend it on. The purpose of this organisation should never be to gather money.

——
I think you are missing the point here. The development grant(s) are not dished out to counties but per individual player. Going by the last published figures I know of, (2010-2014) Dublin got over €274 per individual, regardless of status.By comparison each  Mayo was paid €22 (or thereabouts) and Kerry got the princely sum of €19 for every player they had registered.
For the record, Dublin has easily the lowest participation rate of any county in Ireland. Here I am talking about active participation as players or supporters.
No rocket science involved here- say Dublin play Longford and 50% of the population of Longford turn up, whereas it would be unlikely that Dublin would bring anywhere near 5% of its population along. Which county would have the greater support at the game?
Lots of apples and oranges there Lar.

here's the actual breakdown:


Sorry Hound, I couldn’t respond sooner than now.
I don’t doubt your word and if the info you posted is relevant in some way to the discussion in hand, I’ll take your word for it.


But, for the life of me, I can’t make head nor tail of what these stats mean!
I take it that it’s the General Development Fund’s grants to primary schools. Now, who got the money, the principal or a particular GAA club?
Was there specific conditions attached to the payment of these grants?
I am going to assume that the dosh was given to some club or other and from there on, it was (is?) up to the club to devise a training schedule to qualify for the money from the GDF.
Otherwise, I cannot see how the scheme could operate. Farr will tell you that no school principal could allow any outsider to dictate school policy with regard to activities of any sort during school hours.
So, who gets the money and what are the duties /requirements to qualify for the it?
I was heavily involved with primary schools GAA for decades in Finglas and I had (still) have excellent relations with the Isles.
They were the first club I heard of to begin sending young players out to schools in the area to help coach kids after hours and, in some cases, they assisted schools in fielding teams for competitions but , again school policy wouldn’t allow a complete takeover of anything to do with the school by anyone  who could be termed an outsider. Insurance complications involved otherwise.
Now, with three teachers heavily involved in pushing Gah games within my school and with every possible help from the Isles there was never a pickup of more than 5% of pupis who stayed with the club after they left the school and moved n to secondary level.
What I am leading up to is that allocating cash for kids who are not going to be of any use to the GAA  after they leave primary school is a bit daft to me.
My county allegiances is one thing but I am a Gah man at heart and I’d love to see kids everywhere playing the native games but I don’t see any major increase in participation in any clubs or schools I am aware of.
money is never given directly to schools
and just because a school has a big number of pupils doesn't mean they are all getting coaching by the county board provided coaching hours.
eg in our county all the coaching hours given to schools are focused on the junior and senior infants and fundamental skills (I personally think this is the wrong age group to be funding coaching for) for usually a six week block. So 75% of the pupils in the school get no contact time with a GAA coach.
Whereas in Dublin the coaching model is different and much more on getting the kids out playing the sport and down to the local club, which is a much better model.
Fair enough, I can follow your meaning but it doesn’t answer the questions I put to Hound.
Originally, I was referring to the row that kicked off the Dublin, GAA and Money  (or whatever) thread. The infographic URL posted around post #5 or 6 was what I considered the actual report.
Until Hound put up the one we are talking about now, I had never heard of its existence and I still don’t see what relevance it has to GDF initiatives to promote coaching to any children, boys or girls.
If, as it appears to me, the money is given to local clubs and is based on the numbers of school children in the area, then Dublin must be even more in front of the posse than I thought.
That just cannot possibly be the case.
Anyway, on a wider issue, is there any way of keeping tabs on central funds given to clubs for GD work? Is there any degree of accountability or scrutiny involved?
Dublin coaching and gamea development have all the answers
They are actually treated as a separate region for development funding in Leinster.
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Hound on February 12, 2019, 09:21:10 AM
For what it’s worth, I wish people would shut the f**k up about Dublin getting larger grants.

A quarter of the population live in that county. If they weren’t receiving an exceptional percentage of overall funding spend, it would be wholly unfair on people born in Dublin, and would be detrimental to the GAA’s grassroots policy of “get them involved with their club early, get them involved for life”.

This is NOT a modern GAA problem. This one rolls all the way back to 1884, when the core constructs of the Association were founded upon the well-meaning and identity-building - but fundamentally imbalanced - partition of jurisdictions according to county lines.

It just so happens that Dublin have come across a golden generation of players at the same time that social media has enabled every dimwit across the land to have an opinion, and to drumbeat the populist narrative. The Dublin dominance issue will  fix itself in a couple of year, except the dimwits in 10 years time will then be yelping about how the GAA needs a strong Dublin.


——-

Fundamentally, where the suits need put in order, is this.

1. Core values of community and volunteering need stamped on their foreheads, sent as daily reminders, typed in 10 foot letters at the top of every letter or enail they read. Every decision they make needs to be evaluated against how it improves the Association for communities and volunteers. If it doesn’t help them, don’t proceed..

2. Strategies, annual budgets and forecasts should focus on minimising expenditure, and not maximising revenue. This concept does not rule out large infrastructure projects or a commitment to coaching; as both provide advantages to members. But it should minimise the desire/need/will to collect pits of cash and then decide what to spend it on. The purpose of this organisation should never be to gather money.

——
I think you are missing the point here. The development grant(s) are not dished out to counties but per individual player. Going by the last published figures I know of, (2010-2014) Dublin got over €274 per individual, regardless of status.By comparison each  Mayo was paid €22 (or thereabouts) and Kerry got the princely sum of €19 for every player they had registered.
For the record, Dublin has easily the lowest participation rate of any county in Ireland. Here I am talking about active participation as players or supporters.
No rocket science involved here- say Dublin play Longford and 50% of the population of Longford turn up, whereas it would be unlikely that Dublin would bring anywhere near 5% of its population along. Which county would have the greater support at the game?
Lots of apples and oranges there Lar.

here's the actual breakdown:


Sorry Hound, I couldn’t respond sooner than now.
I don’t doubt your word and if the info you posted is relevant in some way to the discussion in hand, I’ll take your word for it.


But, for the life of me, I can’t make head nor tail of what these stats mean!
I take it that it’s the General Development Fund’s grants to primary schools. Now, who got the money, the principal or a particular GAA club?
Was there specific conditions attached to the payment of these grants?
I am going to assume that the dosh was given to some club or other and from there on, it was (is?) up to the club to devise a training schedule to qualify for the money from the GDF.
Otherwise, I cannot see how the scheme could operate. Farr will tell you that no school principal could allow any outsider to dictate school policy with regard to activities of any sort during school hours.
So, who gets the money and what are the duties /requirements to qualify for the it?
I was heavily involved with primary schools GAA for decades in Finglas and I had (still) have excellent relations with the Isles.
They were the first club I heard of to begin sending young players out to schools in the area to help coach kids after hours and, in some cases, they assisted schools in fielding teams for competitions but , again school policy wouldn’t allow a complete takeover of anything to do with the school by anyone  who could be termed an outsider. Insurance complications involved otherwise.
Now, with three teachers heavily involved in pushing Gah games within my school and with every possible help from the Isles there was never a pickup of more than 5% of pupis who stayed with the club after they left the school and moved n to secondary level.
What I am leading up to is that allocating cash for kids who are not going to be of any use to the GAA  after they leave primary school is a bit daft to me.
My county allegiances is one thing but I am a Gah man at heart and I’d love to see kids everywhere playing the native games but I don’t see any major increase in participation in any clubs or schools I am aware of.

The infographic is simply the games development funds by county divided by schoolkid in the county.

The GPO's in Dublin are funded 50% by the GAA, and 50% of their time is spent with primary schools. Some people may think this is a waste, but the aim is to increase participation, to get that 5% in Finglas up. And remember the GPO is teaching basis football and camogie to girls just as much as football and hurling to boys.

Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: seafoid on February 12, 2019, 03:50:12 PM

Conversation
Eamon Mc Gee
Eamon Mc Gee
@EamonMcGee
·
Jan 25
They would fail in the first question of the job interview “How do you feel about eight year olds attending an Ireland final?”
Quote Tweet
Kieran Cunningham
@KCsixtyseven
Wish Dara Ó Cinnéide and Paul Rouse were running the GAA.

Eamon Mc Gee
Eamon Mc Gee
@EamonMcGee
In all seriousness though they’re the type that of people we need to steer the ship now, the GAA will remain on the same course it’s going if the same type of mindset keeps getting to leadership positions.
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: magpie seanie on February 12, 2019, 04:23:09 PM
Hound - I'm going to look into this further because if it is true, and a club that can come up with €14k will have the rest funded by the GAA, my club will have a full time coach next year and I can guarantee that. I'm not trying to win an argument - I'm genuinely interested. If you have any further information on it please PM me with it.
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: the onion bag on February 12, 2019, 04:47:21 PM
Hound - I'm going to look into this further because if it is true, and a club that can come up with €14k will have the rest funded by the GAA, my club will have a full time coach next year and I can guarantee that. I'm not trying to win an argument - I'm genuinely interested. If you have any further information on it please PM me with it.

No it isn't true. The 'GAA money' in the 50/50 split comes from the Dublin coaching & games funding. Dungiven are in the process of appointing a full time GPO and have to fully fund it themselves.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:UTC9tByyXW8J:https://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2018/11/15/news/dungiven-to-appoint-ulster-s-first-self-funded-club-gpo-1485288/+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Lar Naparka on February 12, 2019, 08:39:51 PM
For what it’s worth, I wish people would shut the f**k up about Dublin getting larger grants.

A quarter of the population live in that county. If they weren’t receiving an exceptional percentage of overall funding spend, it would be wholly unfair on people born in Dublin, and would be detrimental to the GAA’s grassroots policy of “get them involved with their club early, get them involved for life”.

This is NOT a modern GAA problem. This one rolls all the way back to 1884, when the core constructs of the Association were founded upon the well-meaning and identity-building - but fundamentally imbalanced - partition of jurisdictions according to county lines.

It just so happens that Dublin have come across a golden generation of players at the same time that social media has enabled every dimwit across the land to have an opinion, and to drumbeat the populist narrative. The Dublin dominance issue will  fix itself in a couple of year, except the dimwits in 10 years time will then be yelping about how the GAA needs a strong Dublin.


——-

Fundamentally, where the suits need put in order, is this.

1. Core values of community and volunteering need stamped on their foreheads, sent as daily reminders, typed in 10 foot letters at the top of every letter or enail they read. Every decision they make needs to be evaluated against how it improves the Association for communities and volunteers. If it doesn’t help them, don’t proceed..

2. Strategies, annual budgets and forecasts should focus on minimising expenditure, and not maximising revenue. This concept does not rule out large infrastructure projects or a commitment to coaching; as both provide advantages to members. But it should minimise the desire/need/will to collect pits of cash and then decide what to spend it on. The purpose of this organisation should never be to gather money.

——
I think you are missing the point here. The development grant(s) are not dished out to counties but per individual player. Going by the last published figures I know of, (2010-2014) Dublin got over €274 per individual, regardless of status.By comparison each  Mayo was paid €22 (or thereabouts) and Kerry got the princely sum of €19 for every player they had registered.
For the record, Dublin has easily the lowest participation rate of any county in Ireland. Here I am talking about active participation as players or supporters.
No rocket science involved here- say Dublin play Longford and 50% of the population of Longford turn up, whereas it would be unlikely that Dublin would bring anywhere near 5% of its population along. Which county would have the greater support at the game?
Lots of apples and oranges there Lar.

here's the actual breakdown:


Sorry Hound, I couldn’t respond sooner than now.
I don’t doubt your word and if the info you posted is relevant in some way to the discussion in hand, I’ll take your word for it.


But, for the life of me, I can’t make head nor tail of what these stats mean!
I take it that it’s the General Development Fund’s grants to primary schools. Now, who got the money, the principal or a particular GAA club?
Was there specific conditions attached to the payment of these grants?
I am going to assume that the dosh was given to some club or other and from there on, it was (is?) up to the club to devise a training schedule to qualify for the money from the GDF.
Otherwise, I cannot see how the scheme could operate. Farr will tell you that no school principal could allow any outsider to dictate school policy with regard to activities of any sort during school hours.
So, who gets the money and what are the duties /requirements to qualify for the it?
I was heavily involved with primary schools GAA for decades in Finglas and I had (still) have excellent relations with the Isles.
They were the first club I heard of to begin sending young players out to schools in the area to help coach kids after hours and, in some cases, they assisted schools in fielding teams for competitions but , again school policy wouldn’t allow a complete takeover of anything to do with the school by anyone  who could be termed an outsider. Insurance complications involved otherwise.
Now, with three teachers heavily involved in pushing Gah games within my school and with every possible help from the Isles there was never a pickup of more than 5% of pupis who stayed with the club after they left the school and moved n to secondary level.
What I am leading up to is that allocating cash for kids who are not going to be of any use to the GAA  after they leave primary school is a bit daft to me.
My county allegiances is one thing but I am a Gah man at heart and I’d love to see kids everywhere playing the native games but I don’t see any major increase in participation in any clubs or schools I am aware of.

The infographic is simply the games development funds by county divided by schoolkid in the county.

The GPO's in Dublin are funded 50% by the GAA, and 50% of their time is spent with primary schools. Some people may think this is a waste, but the aim is to increase participation, to get that 5% in Finglas up. And remember the GPO is teaching basis football and camogie to girls just as much as football and hurling to boys.
Fair enough, Hound. So, I can take it that half the funds per county comes from central funds and the rest is up to each county board to come up with. Correct?
For starters, I can’t see many counties being able to come up with the sort of cash needed to pay the price of a bag of crisps and a lollipop for every child under its jurisdiction.
Anyway, if the cash is there, will it be allocated to coaching children who actually attend sessions? In Ballyfermot, you’d be lucky to find 8% of primary pupils who’d be arsed to attend more than a couple of coaching sessions. In Ballyhaunis, the figure could well be 80%. If a fixed amount per kid is paid, then clubs in Ballyer stand to get an awful lot more. I must be missing something or other.
 
Here is the infographic I was referring to in my earliest post:
(https://media.balls.ie/uploads/2016/10/04232200/GAA-Investment-1.jpg)
This was taken from Balls.ie

“...................  Shane Mangan has tweeted a number of fascinating graphics which put the Dublin investment in stark relation to the level of investment in other counties.
Shane calculated how much in € was invested per player in each county by the GAA, under the umbrella of their 'Games Development'. He calculated the investment per registered player in each county from 2015.”


 HERE (https://media.balls.ie/uploads/2016/10/04232200/GAA-Investment-1.jpg) is the graphic he is referring to:
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Lar Naparka on February 12, 2019, 11:07:25 PM
Meh! Stuck up the wrong graphic. The one above just gives the no. of registered players per co., not the amounts of grant money doled out.
Too busy for a few days to follow this up. Can do so next week. That is, if anyone is really bothered! ;D)
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Hound on February 13, 2019, 07:40:30 AM
Hound - I'm going to look into this further because if it is true, and a club that can come up with €14k will have the rest funded by the GAA, my club will have a full time coach next year and I can guarantee that. I'm not trying to win an argument - I'm genuinely interested. If you have any further information on it please PM me with it.
That's my understanding Seanie. I don't know it for a fact, and I don't know if €14k is the right figure, just that it's 50% of the coach's salary.

If it's not right, well I can't see any argument where it could happen in Dublin and the other Leinster counties, where a club(s) is prepared to fund 50% of the cost of such a coach (on the understanding they'll spend 50% of their working time with schools and 50% with the club) and GAA will fund the other half, that it shouldn't also apply to any other club(s) in the country who's prepared to raise the funds.

Now, the new Director General Tom Ryan said recently that in fact the GAA funds the whole cost of the nearly 100 full time coaches that are in Leinster, not just the 50% that Dublin clubs get.
Turns out that was BS. The clubs in Leinster apparently contribute the 50% the very same as the Dublin clubs.
So it seems it's not easy to obtain correct information!!
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: manfromdelmonte on February 13, 2019, 08:08:51 AM
Hound - I'm going to look into this further because if it is true, and a club that can come up with €14k will have the rest funded by the GAA, my club will have a full time coach next year and I can guarantee that. I'm not trying to win an argument - I'm genuinely interested. If you have any further information on it please PM me with it.
That's my understanding Seanie. I don't know it for a fact, and I don't know if €14k is the right figure, just that it's 50% of the coach's salary.

If it's not right, well I can't see any argument where it could happen in Dublin and the other Leinster counties, where a club(s) is prepared to fund 50% of the cost of such a coach (on the understanding they'll spend 50% of their working time with schools and 50% with the club) and GAA will fund the other half, that it shouldn't also apply to any other club(s) in the country who's prepared to raise the funds.

Now, the new Director General Tom Ryan said recently that in fact the GAA funds the whole cost of the nearly 100 full time coaches that are in Leinster, not just the 50% that Dublin clubs get.
Turns out that was BS. The clubs in Leinster apparently contribute the 50% the very same as the Dublin clubs.
So it seems it's not easy to obtain correct information!!
I'd love to know where the 100 full time coaches in Leinster are.
Majority of schools coaches in this county are part time.
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Hound on February 13, 2019, 08:19:34 AM

Fair enough, Hound. So, I can take it that half the funds per county comes from central funds and the rest is up to each county board to come up with. Correct?
For starters, I can’t see many counties being able to come up with the sort of cash needed to pay the price of a bag of crisps and a lollipop for every child under its jurisdiction.
Anyway, if the cash is there, will it be allocated to coaching children who actually attend sessions? In Ballyfermot, you’d be lucky to find 8% of primary pupils who’d be arsed to attend more than a couple of coaching sessions. In Ballyhaunis, the figure could well be 80%. If a fixed amount per kid is paid, then clubs in Ballyer stand to get an awful lot more. I must be missing something or other.
 
Here is the infographic I was referring to in my earliest post:
(https://media.balls.ie/uploads/2016/10/04232200/GAA-Investment-1.jpg)
This was taken from Balls.ie

“...................  Shane Mangan has tweeted a number of fascinating graphics which put the Dublin investment in stark relation to the level of investment in other counties.
Shane calculated how much in € was invested per player in each county by the GAA, under the umbrella of their 'Games Development'. He calculated the investment per registered player in each county from 2015.”


 HERE (https://media.balls.ie/uploads/2016/10/04232200/GAA-Investment-1.jpg) is the graphic he is referring to:
There's definitely a bit of a dark art to it, which immediately makes everyone suspicious, and rightly so. It allows people like McKenna to pull out figures to justify their viewpoint and arguably me to do the opposite, and thus it's hard to find a reasoned approach to it!

I don't know if the Games Development Funds totals in my infographic relate just to the coaches, or whether there's other costs in there too. It's only the cost of the coaches where the clubs have to come up with 50%. The €1,463,000 for Dublin, divided by €14,000 per coach (if that's the right figure, but it can't be too far wrong) would equal 104 coaches. Maybe there is, but I didn't there was quite that many coaches in Dublin (approx 90 clubs, a few have 2, but a few others club together for one between them), so there might be some other funding in there too, but the vast bulk of those funds would be for coaches and would be backed up by club funds.

Is it allocated just to kids that turn up?
The 50% covered by the GAA is allocated to time spent in primary schools.
So the coaches take PE lessons in school. The vast majority of schools won't allow opt out of PE, so every boy and girl will attend and get a taste of football and hurling.
The 50% funded by the club relies on who turns up at the club.

Now when Spewan is highlighting the discrepancies between Dublin and Leitrim, he adds 12 years together and divides by club member (€457 vs €193 in his latest piece). Bringing it down to an annualised cost his figures show that on average the Games Development Fund works out at €38 per member per year for Dublin and €16 for Leitrim.

But these funds are clearly aimed at non-members as well. Trying to encourage kids to get into GAA. So it's completely disingenuous to divide by club member, when it's every child in primary school who is getting the benefit of the 50% funded by the GAA. So my infographic showing €10 per primary schoolkid in Dublin compared to €35 in Leitrim is fairer.

Maybe it should be a combination of the two. 

And if there are no coaches in Leitrim, I have no idea what the €131,000 they got is actually spent on.

I will also repeat that these coaches don't touch the likes of Brians Fenton and Howard. Anyone involved in Dublin club football will know that it's the work of the members and parents that drives the coaching from U10 up. But there's probably a point in that if we weren't getting so much in GDF we'd have to consider funding it ourselves, thus leaving less in the coffers to fund the senior team, etc. 
I know there's no way my club would fund a coach if we had to pay the whole lot. We'd probably team up with a neighbouring club and split it 50/50
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: seafoid on February 13, 2019, 08:23:15 AM

Fair enough, Hound. So, I can take it that half the funds per county comes from central funds and the rest is up to each county board to come up with. Correct?
For starters, I can’t see many counties being able to come up with the sort of cash needed to pay the price of a bag of crisps and a lollipop for every child under its jurisdiction.
Anyway, if the cash is there, will it be allocated to coaching children who actually attend sessions? In Ballyfermot, you’d be lucky to find 8% of primary pupils who’d be arsed to attend more than a couple of coaching sessions. In Ballyhaunis, the figure could well be 80%. If a fixed amount per kid is paid, then clubs in Ballyer stand to get an awful lot more. I must be missing something or other.
 
Here is the infographic I was referring to in my earliest post:
(https://media.balls.ie/uploads/2016/10/04232200/GAA-Investment-1.jpg)
This was taken from Balls.ie

“...................  Shane Mangan has tweeted a number of fascinating graphics which put the Dublin investment in stark relation to the level of investment in other counties.
Shane calculated how much in € was invested per player in each county by the GAA, under the umbrella of their 'Games Development'. He calculated the investment per registered player in each county from 2015.”


 HERE (https://media.balls.ie/uploads/2016/10/04232200/GAA-Investment-1.jpg) is the graphic he is referring to:
There's definitely a bit of a dark art to it, which immediately makes everyone suspicious, and rightly so. It allows people like McKenna to pull out figures to justify their viewpoint and arguably me to do the opposite, and thus it's hard to find a reasoned approach to it!

I don't know if the Games Development Funds totals in my infographic relate just to the coaches, or whether there's other costs in there too. It's only the cost of the coaches where the clubs have to come up with 50%. The €1,463,000 for Dublin, divided by €14,000 per coach (if that's the right figure, but it can't be too far wrong) would equal 104 coaches. Maybe there is, but I didn't there was quite that many coaches in Dublin (approx 90 clubs, a few have 2, but a few others club together for one between them), so there might be some other funding in there too, but the vast bulk of those funds would be for coaches and would be backed up by club funds.

Is it allocated just to kids that turn up?
The 50% covered by the GAA is allocated to time spent in primary schools.
So the coaches take PE lessons in school. The vast majority of schools won't allow opt out of PE, so every boy and girl will attend and get a taste of football and hurling.
The 50% funded by the club relies on who turns up at the club.

Now when Spewan is highlighting the discrepancies between Dublin and Leitrim, he adds 12 years together and divides by club member (€457 vs €193 in his latest piece). Bringing it down to an annualised cost his figures show that on average the Games Development Fund works out at €38 per member per year for Dublin and €16 for Leitrim.

But these funds are clearly aimed at non-members as well. Trying to encourage kids to get into GAA. So it's completely disingenuous to divide by club member, when it's every child in primary school who is getting the benefit of the 50% funded by the GAA. So my infographic showing €10 per primary schoolkid in Dublin compared to €35 in Leitrim is fairer.

Maybe it should be a combination of the two. 

And if there are no coaches in Leitrim, I have no idea what the €131,000 they got is actually spent on.

I will also repeat that these coaches don't touch the likes of Brians Fenton and Howard. Anyone involved in Dublin club football will know that it's the work of the members and parents that drives the coaching from U10 up. But there's probably a point in that if we weren't getting so much in GDF we'd have to consider funding it ourselves, thus leaving less in the coffers to fund the senior team, etc. 
I know there's no way my club would fund a coach if we had to pay the whole lot. We'd probably team up with a neighbouring club and split it 50/50

Dublin has 1/3 of the population of the 26 counties
It's great to encourage kids into the game but if that is a serious goal in Dublin the county
should be split into smaller units to allow the sport to be competitive

A Paris St German system is not going to work
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: manfromdelmonte on February 13, 2019, 09:00:35 AM

Fair enough, Hound. So, I can take it that half the funds per county comes from central funds and the rest is up to each county board to come up with. Correct?
For starters, I can’t see many counties being able to come up with the sort of cash needed to pay the price of a bag of crisps and a lollipop for every child under its jurisdiction.
Anyway, if the cash is there, will it be allocated to coaching children who actually attend sessions? In Ballyfermot, you’d be lucky to find 8% of primary pupils who’d be arsed to attend more than a couple of coaching sessions. In Ballyhaunis, the figure could well be 80%. If a fixed amount per kid is paid, then clubs in Ballyer stand to get an awful lot more. I must be missing something or other.
 
Here is the infographic I was referring to in my earliest post:
(https://media.balls.ie/uploads/2016/10/04232200/GAA-Investment-1.jpg)
This was taken from Balls.ie

“...................  Shane Mangan has tweeted a number of fascinating graphics which put the Dublin investment in stark relation to the level of investment in other counties.
Shane calculated how much in € was invested per player in each county by the GAA, under the umbrella of their 'Games Development'. He calculated the investment per registered player in each county from 2015.”


 HERE (https://media.balls.ie/uploads/2016/10/04232200/GAA-Investment-1.jpg) is the graphic he is referring to:
There's definitely a bit of a dark art to it, which immediately makes everyone suspicious, and rightly so. It allows people like McKenna to pull out figures to justify their viewpoint and arguably me to do the opposite, and thus it's hard to find a reasoned approach to it!

I don't know if the Games Development Funds totals in my infographic relate just to the coaches, or whether there's other costs in there too. It's only the cost of the coaches where the clubs have to come up with 50%. The €1,463,000 for Dublin, divided by €14,000 per coach (if that's the right figure, but it can't be too far wrong) would equal 104 coaches. Maybe there is, but I didn't there was quite that many coaches in Dublin (approx 90 clubs, a few have 2, but a few others club together for one between them), so there might be some other funding in there too, but the vast bulk of those funds would be for coaches and would be backed up by club funds.

Is it allocated just to kids that turn up?
The 50% covered by the GAA is allocated to time spent in primary schools.
So the coaches take PE lessons in school. The vast majority of schools won't allow opt out of PE, so every boy and girl will attend and get a taste of football and hurling.
The 50% funded by the club relies on who turns up at the club.

Now when Spewan is highlighting the discrepancies between Dublin and Leitrim, he adds 12 years together and divides by club member (€457 vs €193 in his latest piece). Bringing it down to an annualised cost his figures show that on average the Games Development Fund works out at €38 per member per year for Dublin and €16 for Leitrim.

But these funds are clearly aimed at non-members as well. Trying to encourage kids to get into GAA. So it's completely disingenuous to divide by club member, when it's every child in primary school who is getting the benefit of the 50% funded by the GAA. So my infographic showing €10 per primary schoolkid in Dublin compared to €35 in Leitrim is fairer.

Maybe it should be a combination of the two. 

And if there are no coaches in Leitrim, I have no idea what the €131,000 they got is actually spent on.

I will also repeat that these coaches don't touch the likes of Brians Fenton and Howard. Anyone involved in Dublin club football will know that it's the work of the members and parents that drives the coaching from U10 up. But there's probably a point in that if we weren't getting so much in GDF we'd have to consider funding it ourselves, thus leaving less in the coffers to fund the senior team, etc. 
I know there's no way my club would fund a coach if we had to pay the whole lot. We'd probably team up with a neighbouring club and split it 50/50
why aren't the teachers doing PE?
they are paid to teach it
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: DuffleKing on February 13, 2019, 10:09:53 AM
Hound - I'm going to look into this further because if it is true, and a club that can come up with €14k will have the rest funded by the GAA, my club will have a full time coach next year and I can guarantee that. I'm not trying to win an argument - I'm genuinely interested. If you have any further information on it please PM me with it.
That's my understanding Seanie. I don't know it for a fact, and I don't know if €14k is the right figure, just that it's 50% of the coach's salary.

If it's not right, well I can't see any argument where it could happen in Dublin and the other Leinster counties, where a club(s) is prepared to fund 50% of the cost of such a coach (on the understanding they'll spend 50% of their working time with schools and 50% with the club) and GAA will fund the other half, that it shouldn't also apply to any other club(s) in the country who's prepared to raise the funds.

Now, the new Director General Tom Ryan said recently that in fact the GAA funds the whole cost of the nearly 100 full time coaches that are in Leinster, not just the 50% that Dublin clubs get.
Turns out that was BS. The clubs in Leinster apparently contribute the 50% the very same as the Dublin clubs.
So it seems it's not easy to obtain correct information!!

This is only available in Dublin.

The other 50% to match a club's investment in a GDO is supplied by DCB - which comes from the coaching and games budget granted centrally by Croke Park. Most other county boards have since lobbied for the same model of support unsuccessfully - the reasoning being that Dublin is different because of it's strategic importance to the GAA.

By the way, Dublin's Coaching and Games grant goes up every time one of their clubs find the money for 50% of the salary of another GDO - Croke Park have guaranteed the match funding approach so the other 50% gets added automatically.
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: magpie seanie on February 13, 2019, 12:17:43 PM
Hound - I'm going to look into this further because if it is true, and a club that can come up with €14k will have the rest funded by the GAA, my club will have a full time coach next year and I can guarantee that. I'm not trying to win an argument - I'm genuinely interested. If you have any further information on it please PM me with it.
That's my understanding Seanie. I don't know it for a fact, and I don't know if €14k is the right figure, just that it's 50% of the coach's salary.

If it's not right, well I can't see any argument where it could happen in Dublin and the other Leinster counties, where a club(s) is prepared to fund 50% of the cost of such a coach (on the understanding they'll spend 50% of their working time with schools and 50% with the club) and GAA will fund the other half, that it shouldn't also apply to any other club(s) in the country who's prepared to raise the funds.

Now, the new Director General Tom Ryan said recently that in fact the GAA funds the whole cost of the nearly 100 full time coaches that are in Leinster, not just the 50% that Dublin clubs get.
Turns out that was BS. The clubs in Leinster apparently contribute the 50% the very same as the Dublin clubs.
So it seems it's not easy to obtain correct information!!

This is only available in Dublin.

The other 50% to match a club's investment in a GDO is supplied by DCB - which comes from the coaching and games budget granted centrally by Croke Park. Most other county boards have since lobbied for the same model of support unsuccessfully - the reasoning being that Dublin is different because of it's strategic importance to the GAA.

By the way, Dublin's Coaching and Games grant goes up every time one of their clubs find the money for 50% of the salary of another GDO - Croke Park have guaranteed the match funding approach so the other 50% gets added automatically.


Yes - that has been my understanding because I looked into it and I know others have done so. This alone is a massive unfair advantage to Dublin. I understood the rationale for additional support for Dublin (and in fact I agreed with it) but I think now the same support needs to be extended to other counties.
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Hound on February 13, 2019, 02:57:47 PM

why aren't the teachers doing PE?
they are paid to teach it
Agreed!

The still get PE off the teachers mostly, but the teacher gets a free class when the GAA lad arrives for a session for their class.

My kids went to the very same school I did and the standard of PE I got was miles better.

Often 30 kids standing around in a hall waiting minutes for a ball to be thrown to you! Or a small beanbag so everyone had a good chance of making a catch!
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: manfromdelmonte on February 13, 2019, 03:37:35 PM

why aren't the teachers doing PE?
they are paid to teach it
Agreed!

The still get PE off the teachers mostly, but the teacher gets a free class when the GAA lad arrives for a session for their class.

My kids went to the very same school I did and the standard of PE I got was miles better.

Often 30 kids standing around in a hall waiting minutes for a ball to be thrown to you! Or a small beanbag so everyone had a good chance of making a catch!
You need to ask their school why the PE is crap
Our local school has no hall or pitch yet the teachers get them out at least once a week
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: magpie seanie on February 13, 2019, 03:47:52 PM

why aren't the teachers doing PE?
they are paid to teach it
Agreed!

The still get PE off the teachers mostly, but the teacher gets a free class when the GAA lad arrives for a session for their class.

My kids went to the very same school I did and the standard of PE I got was miles better.

Often 30 kids standing around in a hall waiting minutes for a ball to be thrown to you! Or a small beanbag so everyone had a good chance of making a catch!
You need to ask their school why the PE is crap
Our local school has no hall or pitch yet the teachers get them out at least once a week


It's pot luck and depends on the teacher and the attitude of the principal. My kids are lucky with the teachers they have.....they go out running for a few minutes every day (unless weather is terrible) because so far they've had young teachers who are into running and fitness themselves.
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Lar Naparka on February 16, 2019, 10:34:36 AM

why aren't the teachers doing PE?
they are paid to teach it
Agreed!

The still get PE off the teachers mostly, but the teacher gets a free class when the GAA lad arrives for a session for their class.

My kids went to the very same school I did and the standard of PE I got was miles better.

Often 30 kids standing around in a hall waiting minutes for a ball to be thrown to you! Or a small beanbag so everyone had a good chance of making a catch!
You need to ask their school why the PE is crap
Our local school has no hall or pitch yet the teachers get them out at least once a week
Officially, PE is a recognised subject on the school curriculum. So each school class is supposed to devote a fixed section of the class timetable to the subject. Each teacher is expected to have a Plean Scoile or school (work) plan for each week.
By the way, devoting the whole time to Gah coaching every week wouldn't rate as a balanced PE program!
Arrangements can be made to bring in specialist coaches for PE ( bit of a joke at times) where those employed  used to be FAS employees. The only time I was persuaded to get outsiders in to lessen my load, I got saddled with two gum-chewing young wans who hadn't a clue about anything to do with sport of any sort. They also called kids by their last names which didn't go down well with my lot. So the first visit was also the last.
Okay, so I have a biased view of what outside help officially means. Schools can also make plans with GAA coaches from local clubs or whatever to come in for coaching sessions. That should, officially at least, be outside of school hours but like so many other aspects of teaching, teachers can have a lot of leeway here and I know of cases where schools and clubs pick the times best suited for both and that can involved the last part of the school day.
Farr may be able to say if there has been any recent updates to this policy but I think I would have heard of it if there was any in Dublin.
One further note, I dunno where the sums allegedly spent of coaching development in Dublin is going but it sure ain't being spent on primary school kids and that's for sure.

Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: seafoid on May 07, 2019, 08:40:36 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/kevin-mcstay-new-york-trip-has-become-a-dismal-experience-1.3882626

"I’m going to be working with RTÉ as an analyst this year and when I got the television schedule for the summer, I had the same sense that the ground is shifting beneath our feet. For instance, RTÉ is down to show just one live provincial football game apart from the four finals; Donegal v Tyrone – and that for now is a theoretical fixture. So all of the early round games are not on television.

The arguments about restructuring the All-Ireland have been doing the rounds for years. I don’t think they amount to a hill of beans in terms of their influence on the GAA. It is a traditionalist organisation. They like to preserve their rituals and traditions and the provincial championships are a sacred part of that. But, last year, the number of spectators going to see those games dropped. That’s a voice the GAA will sit up and listen to.

And now you have the people who decide which of these games they will show on television also turning their back on it. So you have to conclude that Gaelic football, in its current state, is turning people off. I know a lot of my friends won’t go along to watch a neutral game anymore. Some won’t even watch a full match on television.

The hurling championship, meanwhile, is thriving. Remember, the hurling round robin was put together because the hurling custodians were worried about the impact of the football Super 8s. But they have already boxed off 20 teams into the tiered hurling championship competitions.

So what the country is seeing on television are the eight elite hurling teams playing each other in a rotating series of significant games. It is engaging, the momentum is building, the twists have been dramatic.

People are, in general, becoming more precious with their time. They are more reluctant to commit to a sports fixture that feels like a foregone conclusion. I am very excited about this year’s championship. But I find myself projecting to the provincial finals and what will happens after that

.....of more immediate concern is the feeling that the provincial system is disappearing before our eyes and we need to ask if it is still working. And in stating this, I feel as if I am betraying a value system that is hugely important to me. I mean, if my father could hear me now.

Going to see Mayo play Ros or Galway wasn’t just a game; it was a ritual, a part of summer. It feels like a betrayal to question the worth of all that. And I feel genuinely torn.
"
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: manfromdelmonte on May 07, 2019, 10:11:56 AM
all very good, but the top teams have already played each other in the league

and as we have seen from the lower tiers in the hurling, the 2nd and 3rd tiers get forgotten about very quickly
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Rossfan on May 07, 2019, 11:27:18 AM
When did the hurlers of Louth/Longford etc ever get mass media coverage?
1st Round football Qualifiers don't take up much space in the papers either.
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: seafoid on May 08, 2019, 02:57:19 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/se%C3%A1n-moran-this-year-promises-to-be-momentous-for-football-1.3884216

Seán Moran: This year promises to be momentous for football

The preliminaries of this year’s football championship played out overseas and coincidentally featured the two counties, Mayo and Galway who are expected to contest the only provincial final likely to be categorised as “eagerly awaited” at this stage.
Kevin McStay has made the point eloquently in these pages that provincial football championships are on borrowed time and no longer command sufficient interest, which is why broadcasters are uniformly opting to cover the round-robin hurling championships during the early part of the season.
The Football Development Committee, of which Eugene McGee was a member, proposed in 1999 a radical, league-based championship structure, which would in its alchemy both combine provinces and yet retain the provincial championships.
Inevitably, it was shot down at Congress and withdrawn from the clár, but it inspired a response, which led to the creation of the current qualifier system, introduced for 2001, another ingenious structure, which combined additional matches without diluting too much the sudden-death format of the championship.
Inroads
Twelve years later the Football Review Committee, chaired by McGee, having made some inroads on the problems of indiscipline earlier in 2013, issued a second report looking into the competitive structures in football.
That too suggested a rationalisation of the provincial championships and the introduction of four eight-county conferences based on the provinces but instead of re-drawing the map, counties would move from Ulster and Leinster into Connacht and Munster depending on how they got on in the preliminary rounds each year.
It achieved little traction but there has since been growing concern about the provincial system – to the point where it is now being openly questioned.
The qualifier system has definitely marginalised the provincial championships, first as a necessary stepping stone to All-Ireland success and secondly as even a reliable proving ground for contenders. Since 2001 most serious counties have focused on reaching the last eight, a target even more urgent in the current round-robin quarter-final structure.
Yet the problem for the provincial championships has been the declining level of competitiveness and not the disconnection between being provincial champions and automatic All-Ireland contenders, which isn’t new.
For instance in the 23 years between Down’s 1968 and 1991 All-Irelands, the Leinster and Munster champions lost just one match to their Connacht and Ulster counterparts.
In those days the GAA was happy with the All-Ireland as a representative series between the representatives of the four provinces rather than a more integrated and fairer structure.
One of the provincial system’s great strengths has been that it provides four senior trophies for contesting. Remove the provinces and there’s just one championship annually for everyone.
But even that is now being challenged and the environment that made a Tier 2 football championship unthinkable – not least to the counties directly affected – as recently as three years ago has been transformed with growing numbers accepting that something has to be done to provide meaningful competitive opportunities for more than the top three or four counties.
London manager Ciarán Deeley, a supporter of the concept, tweeted on Tuesday in answer to the anxieties that such a competition wouldn’t attract media attention.
“Saw inter-county coach saying a B Championship for the GAA would be bad because RTE wouldn’t show much highlights! Who cares?? Do we do this for a 5min clip on tv or to win football games? I know what I want – to win games in a competition that we have a chance of winning!”
April’s meeting of counties likely to be involved in a graded championship was positive and with the precise format being deliberated in those same counties, a motion will go to autumn’s special congress with every chance that this radical departure will be adopted.
In time to come 2019 may well be seen as year zero – and not just because of whatever fate awaits the Dubs
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: trailer on May 08, 2019, 05:12:26 PM
Nobody is watching Div 3 or 4 teams at the minute. A tiered championship won't make a difference with coverage, but at least we won't get as many one sided games. Watch this weekend to see how many rubbish, one sided, shite games there are.
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Esmarelda on May 08, 2019, 05:18:52 PM
Nobody is watching Div 3 or 4 teams at the minute. A tiered championship won't make a difference with coverage, but at least we won't get as many one sided games. Watch this weekend to see how many rubbish, one sided, shite games there are.
True, but Carlow got a bit of exposure by causing an upset in the current competition which also raised excitement in the county.

The question I'd ask is, would the players/management/supporters of Carlow prefer that bit of a run/chance of a bit of a run, or would they prefer to compete and have a better chance of winning a B/C competition.
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: seafoid on May 08, 2019, 05:30:55 PM
Nobody is watching Div 3 or 4 teams at the minute. A tiered championship won't make a difference with coverage, but at least we won't get as many one sided games. Watch this weekend to see how many rubbish, one sided, shite games there are.
True, but Carlow got a bit of exposure by causing an upset in the current competition which also raised excitement in the county.

The question I'd ask is, would the players/management/supporters of Carlow prefer that bit of a run/chance of a bit of a run, or would they prefer to compete and have a better chance of winning a B/C competition.
An average of 1 D3/4 teams per year makes it to the quarterfinals

Attendances are down and television is focused on the hurling round robin.
Something has to give
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: five points on May 08, 2019, 05:40:28 PM
Nobody is watching Div 3 or 4 teams at the minute. A tiered championship won't make a difference with coverage, but at least we won't get as many one sided games. Watch this weekend to see how many rubbish, one sided, shite games there are.

Tyrone 4-24 Roscommon 2-12

Attendances are down and television is focused on the hurling round robin.
Something has to give

The four most dangerous words in the English language: "Something must be done!".
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Esmarelda on May 08, 2019, 06:19:48 PM
Nobody is watching Div 3 or 4 teams at the minute. A tiered championship won't make a difference with coverage, but at least we won't get as many one sided games. Watch this weekend to see how many rubbish, one sided, shite games there are.
True, but Carlow got a bit of exposure by causing an upset in the current competition which also raised excitement in the county.

The question I'd ask is, would the players/management/supporters of Carlow prefer that bit of a run/chance of a bit of a run, or would they prefer to compete and have a better chance of winning a B/C competition.
An average of 1 D3/4 teams per year makes it to the quarterfinals

Attendances are down and television is focused on the hurling round robin.
Something has to give
I didn't mention the quarter-finals. I mentioned a specific example where a county didn't reach a quarter-final but I think everyone in the county was happy with their summer's work.

Would an increased chance of winning a lower-tiered competition trump that?
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Rossfan on May 08, 2019, 07:01:39 PM
We'll likely get the answer to that at the Special Congress in the Autumn.
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: trailer on May 08, 2019, 07:42:51 PM
Nobody is watching Div 3 or 4 teams at the minute. A tiered championship won't make a difference with coverage, but at least we won't get as many one sided games. Watch this weekend to see how many rubbish, one sided, shite games there are.
True, but Carlow got a bit of exposure by causing an upset in the current competition which also raised excitement in the county.

The question I'd ask is, would the players/management/supporters of Carlow prefer that bit of a run/chance of a bit of a run, or would they prefer to compete and have a better chance of winning a B/C competition.

f**k sake. Carlow wheeled out again. f**k Carlow. f**k them. They're away back to Div 4 for another 50 years. More games involving teams at a well balanced level is what audiences want. Tier the championship and f**k what the weaker teams want. They don't know what's good for them.
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Esmarelda on May 08, 2019, 07:46:08 PM
We'll likely get the answer to that at the Special Congress in the Autumn.
We might find out what the Carlow County Board want. Not sure about anyone else.
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: Owenmoresider on May 09, 2019, 11:26:32 AM
Nobody is watching Div 3 or 4 teams at the minute. A tiered championship won't make a difference with coverage, but at least we won't get as many one sided games. Watch this weekend to see how many rubbish, one sided, shite games there are.
True, but Carlow got a bit of exposure by causing an upset in the current competition which also raised excitement in the county.

The question I'd ask is, would the players/management/supporters of Carlow prefer that bit of a run/chance of a bit of a run, or would they prefer to compete and have a better chance of winning a B/C competition.
That's the thing, two years ago Carlow footballers made life difficult for Dublin for 50-55 minutes before falling away, and then gave Monaghan a proper game with only a late goal seeing Monaghan home. The same year their hurlers won the Christy Ring Cup with an impressive defeat of Antrim. Which team's feats grabbed the Carlow public's attention more?
Title: Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
Post by: seafoid on May 09, 2019, 12:03:22 PM
Maybe they should ask the fans who don't go to matches any more