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GAA Discussion => GAA Discussion => Topic started by: Jinxy on September 09, 2018, 08:44:59 PM

Title: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Jinxy on September 09, 2018, 08:44:59 PM
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/paul-kimmage-sits-down-with-sean-cavanagh-to-talk-retirement-the-mcmanus-incident-and-how-he-never-really-knew-mickey-harte-37297045.html (https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/paul-kimmage-sits-down-with-sean-cavanagh-to-talk-retirement-the-mcmanus-incident-and-how-he-never-really-knew-mickey-harte-37297045.html)

I enjoyed this interview I have to say.
Which Cavan savage is he talking about in the excerpt below?

PK: Three years later you're playing Cavan in an Ulster Championship semi-final - a game you recall in a passage in the book that is just extraordinary. You shake hands with this guy, the game starts and he's grabbing and pulling you off the ball.

SC: Yeah.

PK: Then he spits in your face?

SC: Yeah.

PK: And he keeps spitting in your face?

SC: Yeah.

PK: And the officials do nothing about it?

SC: That was the thing that really got to me. I remember going to the referee and the linesmen with the 'gob' running down my face and asking: "How can you let him away with this? How is this legal?" And the referee saying: "I didn't see anything."

PK: And you go in at half-time and break down in the dressing room?

SC: I was inconsolable. I remember Mickey coming over: "What's up? What's gone on?" And I just kept saying: "This is not football." It wasn't my vision of sport, or my sport.

PK: Now you're 23 years old at this stage. You've had your teeth smashed-in and guys who've run onto the pitch to punch you in the head. But this is the day that breaks you?

SC: He was spitting at me and biting me. I was getting nipped repeatedly and violently. I remember taking off my top that night - Fionnuala took a picture of it - and there was bruising all over my chest and back and und er my arm. I could accept getting the shoulder and having my teeth knocked out - whether it was intentional or not I don't know - but spiting and biting was crossing the line.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: redzone on September 09, 2018, 08:53:35 PM
Walsh
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Jinxy on September 09, 2018, 08:56:52 PM
He should have had his teeth put through the back of his head.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: rodney trotter on September 09, 2018, 09:01:33 PM
Walsh was dirty enough on the field. He came from his spell in AFL with not much skill set.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: befair on September 09, 2018, 09:05:15 PM
Tyrone, of course, were entirely blameless.....
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on September 09, 2018, 09:11:05 PM
Big Sean puttin his head in front of yer man when he was spittin. These tyronies have no shame Betfair..
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: trailer on September 09, 2018, 09:20:25 PM
Walsh got what he wanted - a draw the first day. Cavanagh roasted him 6 days later.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Itchy on September 09, 2018, 09:22:49 PM
Walsh got what he wanted - a draw the first day. Cavanagh roasted him 6 days later.

Walsh got a yellow in 1st few mins. All seans crying worked for him. Thankfully there was no utter scumbags playing on seans team.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Jinxy on September 09, 2018, 09:24:22 PM
How do you even bite a man's chest?
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: trailer on September 09, 2018, 09:29:44 PM
Walsh got what he wanted - a draw the first day. Cavanagh roasted him 6 days later.

Walsh got a yellow in 1st few mins. All seans crying worked for him. Thankfully there was no utter scumbags playing on seans team.

Is this a who's got the more scumbags competition or are discussing this incident? 
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Itchy on September 09, 2018, 10:11:15 PM
Walsh got what he wanted - a draw the first day. Cavanagh roasted him 6 days later.

Walsh got a yellow in 1st few mins. All seans crying worked for him. Thankfully there was no utter scumbags playing on seans team.

Is this a who's got the more scumbags competition or are discussing this incident?

We are discussing Sean Cavanagh interview with Paul kimmage with regards to his new book. I look forward to Seans recollections on diving, sledging and other stuff Tyrone (amongst others) got up to during his time.

As St Mickey might say, let him without sin cast the first stone.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: trueblue1234 on September 09, 2018, 10:13:59 PM
Walsh got what he wanted - a draw the first day. Cavanagh roasted him 6 days later.

Walsh got a yellow in 1st few mins. All seans crying worked for him. Thankfully there was no utter scumbags playing on seans team.

Is this a who's got the more scumbags competition or are discussing this incident?

We are discussing Sean Cavanagh interview with Paul kimmage with regards to his new book. I look forward to Seans recollections on diving, sledging and other stuff Tyrone (amongst others) got up to during his time.
😄 oh dear.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: rrhf on September 09, 2018, 10:29:15 PM
Kimmage does a very human interview, always slightly uncomfortable, always interesting - I imagine him as an angry old school hack at times and I mean that complimentary. I’d have liked him to go further with Sean on this insane individual drive and lack of appreciation for his own achievements.. is this a common trait?
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Jinxy on September 09, 2018, 10:34:04 PM
I think he came across well in general.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: snoopdog on September 09, 2018, 10:58:35 PM
Does he publish the photo of all the bruises in the book i wonder
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: APM on September 10, 2018, 09:51:35 AM
I know this was nothing new, but the stuff on Mass and the Rosary for me is something that the Tyrone CB should be looking very strongly at.  Totally inappropriate given the message it sends out to those with other faiths and none, that have an interest in playing Gaelic Football. 
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Maroon Manc on September 10, 2018, 10:07:18 AM
Cavanagh doesn't seem to hold much hope for Tyrone going forward, its clear he doesn't think there's an All Ireland in this team.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Christmas Lights on September 10, 2018, 10:13:19 AM
Brolly seems to be loathed in GAA circles.  Came over with his hood over his head.  McManus just walked away.  All sounded very awks.  Brolly seems to have some sort of hyperactive personality doesn’t he?
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Rudi on September 10, 2018, 11:26:48 AM
Regarding the player spitting and biting, despicable stuff. Remember playing a club game against a notorious shower of dirty ba#tards. Was moved in to full forward for the last ten minutes, walked towards the full back he some how managed to go inside my boxers and grab my ball sack, which he proceeded to hold for about 6 minutes.  Nothing I could do he literally had me by the balls. Early season had decided it was my last year playing, this incident ended my interest in playing. Fat headed red neck f×cktard.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: APM on September 10, 2018, 11:31:01 AM
Regarding the player spitting and biting, despicable stuff. Remember playing a club game against a notorious shower of dirty ba#tards. Was moved in to full forward for the last ten minutes, walked towards the full back he some how managed to go inside my boxers and grab my ball sack, which he proceeded to hold for about 6 minutes.  Nothing I could do he literally had me by the balls. Early season had decided it was my last year playing, this incident ended my interest in playing. Fat headed red neck f×cktard.

Holy Shit! Don't think I've heard worse.  That's sexual assault - you should name and shame. 
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Jinxy on September 10, 2018, 11:47:08 AM
I dunno lads.
I've never experienced the levels of nastiness that seem to be part & parcel of football culture in some parts of the country.
Plenty of rows & the odd bad blow alright, but spitting, biting etc.?
That's beyond the Pale.
Literally, it would seem.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: trailer on September 10, 2018, 12:31:04 PM
Regarding the player spitting and biting, despicable stuff. Remember playing a club game against a notorious shower of dirty ba#tards. Was moved in to full forward for the last ten minutes, walked towards the full back he some how managed to go inside my boxers and grab my ball sack, which he proceeded to hold for about 6 minutes.  Nothing I could do he literally had me by the balls. Early season had decided it was my last year playing, this incident ended my interest in playing. Fat headed red neck f×cktard.

You should've have just wet yourself.

I think it has to be said that there are some real gents around as well. I remember doing my ankle, sort of a nothing challenge but ruptured ligaments. Guy who was marking me who I didn't know from Adam, rang me to see how I was. Thought a awful lot of him for doing that.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Jinxy on September 10, 2018, 12:39:19 PM
People can lose their head in the heat of battle when the adrenaline is pumping, but I've never felt that anyone had deliberately tried to hurt me, beyond the usual stuff like burying me with a shoulder.
You need to be able to look at yourself in the mirror at the end of the day.
If you can go out on the field and deliberately spit at and bite your opponent repeatedly, and still look at yourself in the mirror; there's something very wrong with you.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Itchy on September 10, 2018, 01:43:14 PM
There was once this underage team (who shall remain nameless) who researched their opponents, found out that one the young lads on the other teams father had recently passed away. Passed that message to one of their young players and that young player spent the game sledging the bereaved kid about having no father. Its shocking what goes on in some counties alright.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: five points on September 10, 2018, 01:49:29 PM
Quote

Thankfully there was no utter scumbags playing on seans team.



Quote
I look forward to Seans recollections on diving, sledging and other stuff Tyrone (amongst others) got up to during his time.



I know this was nothing new, but the stuff on Mass and the Rosary for me is something that the Tyrone CB should be looking very strongly at.  Totally inappropriate given the message it sends out to those with other faiths and none, that have an interest in playing Gaelic Football.

Funny priorities here.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: reddgnhand on September 10, 2018, 02:03:14 PM
There was once this underage team (who shall remain nameless) who researched their opponents, found out that one the young lads on the other teams father had recently passed away. Passed that message to one of their young players and that young player spent the game sledging the bereaved kid about having no father. Its shocking what goes on in some counties alright.

This did not happen Itchy and you know it.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Christmas Lights on September 10, 2018, 02:09:24 PM
There was once this underage team (who shall remain nameless) who researched their opponents, found out that one the young lads on the other teams father had recently passed away. Passed that message to one of their young players and that young player spent the game sledging the bereaved kid about having no father. Its shocking what goes on in some counties alright.

This did not happen Itchy and you know it.

Is Itchy just scratching at an urban legend do you reckon?
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Dire Ear on September 10, 2018, 02:15:22 PM
Itchy is acting like his county's player did on the pitch- pathetic
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: BennyCake on September 10, 2018, 02:24:31 PM
Walsh got what he wanted - a draw the first day. Cavanagh roasted him 6 days later.

Walsh got a yellow in 1st few mins. All seans crying worked for him. Thankfully there was no utter scumbags playing on seans team.

Is this a who's got the more scumbags competition or are discussing this incident?

We are discussing Sean Cavanagh interview with Paul kimmage with regards to his new book. I look forward to Seans recollections on diving, sledging and other stuff Tyrone (amongst others) got up to during his time.

As St Mickey might say, let him without sin cast the first stone.

You might read that in his second book. Or indeed, never.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: APM on September 10, 2018, 02:58:02 PM
Quote

Thankfully there was no utter scumbags playing on seans team.



Quote
I look forward to Seans recollections on diving, sledging and other stuff Tyrone (amongst others) got up to during his time.



I know this was nothing new, but the stuff on Mass and the Rosary for me is something that the Tyrone CB should be looking very strongly at.  Totally inappropriate given the message it sends out to those with other faiths and none, that have an interest in playing Gaelic Football.

Funny priorities here.

Five Points - you mightn't think it a priority and maybe I'm the only one, but I find Harte's bringing of religion into the changing room just as bad as bringing politics into it.  Very dangerous, backward road to be on.  It assumes everyone is a practicing catholic, and assumes everyone conforms.  People can be reared in the catholic community, but be very anti-church.  We do have small but rising numbers of protestants and other religions involved and need more. This is hugely inappropriate and must be tackled.  Can't understand that there isn't uproar over this.  GAA shouldn't be tolerating it in this day and age.  Before you say anything, I'm a practicing catholic myself, but find this totally wrong.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: five points on September 10, 2018, 03:01:29 PM
Five Points - you mightn't think it a priority and maybe I'm the only one, but I find Harte's bringing of religion into the changing room just as bad as bringing politics into it.  Very dangerous, backward road to be on.  It assumes everyone is a practicing catholic, and assumes everyone conforms.  People can be reared in the catholic community, but be very anti-church.  We do have small but rising numbers of protestants and other religions involved and need more. This is hugely inappropriate and must be tackled.  Can't understand that there isn't uproar over this.  GAA shouldn't be tolerating it in this day and age.  Before you say anything, I'm a practicing catholic myself, but find this totally wrong.

I don't necessarily disagree but I still find it funny being listed as a priority in a thread about spitting biting and sledging.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: johnnycool on September 10, 2018, 03:07:42 PM
Five Points - you mightn't think it a priority and maybe I'm the only one, but I find Harte's bringing of religion into the changing room just as bad as bringing politics into it.  Very dangerous, backward road to be on.  It assumes everyone is a practicing catholic, and assumes everyone conforms.  People can be reared in the catholic community, but be very anti-church.  We do have small but rising numbers of protestants and other religions involved and need more. This is hugely inappropriate and must be tackled.  Can't understand that there isn't uproar over this.  GAA shouldn't be tolerating it in this day and age.  Before you say anything, I'm a practicing catholic myself, but find this totally wrong.

I don't necessarily disagree but I still find it funny being listed as a priority in a thread about spitting biting and sledging.

I'd say its that some people struggle to conflate the two within the same team ethos or actions.

I'm not saying Tyrone are unique in this but they do seem to have a bad press wrt sledging and so forth and I can't say for sure that is well earned or not, but it does follow them around like a bad smell.

Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: trueblue1234 on September 10, 2018, 03:19:29 PM
Five Points - you mightn't think it a priority and maybe I'm the only one, but I find Harte's bringing of religion into the changing room just as bad as bringing politics into it.  Very dangerous, backward road to be on.  It assumes everyone is a practicing catholic, and assumes everyone conforms.  People can be reared in the catholic community, but be very anti-church.  We do have small but rising numbers of protestants and other religions involved and need more. This is hugely inappropriate and must be tackled.  Can't understand that there isn't uproar over this.  GAA shouldn't be tolerating it in this day and age.  Before you say anything, I'm a practicing catholic myself, but find this totally wrong.

I don't necessarily disagree but I still find it funny being listed as a priority in a thread about spitting biting and sledging.

I'd say its that some people struggle to conflate the two within the same team ethos or actions.

I'm not saying Tyrone are unique in this but they do seem to have a bad press wrt sledging and so forth and I can't say for sure that is well earned or not, but it does follow them around like a bad smell.
People enjoy chatting about Tyrone's sledging. That's why in a thread about dirty actions by a Cavan player we're talking about Tyrone's Sledging instead. Tyrone may have had a dirtier side about them back in the 00's but recently they have been far from the worst. And not to their benefit I would add. But if you get a name for something it can be hard to shift. Which is fair enough.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Christmas Lights on September 10, 2018, 03:39:07 PM
Ballsy enough of Sean to admit he was crying about it in the changing room and Conor Gormley had to sort it for him.  Shows he is maybe a vulnerable, soft enough character at times as well.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: LooseCannon on September 10, 2018, 04:45:05 PM
There was once this underage team (who shall remain nameless) who researched their opponents, found out that one the young lads on the other teams father had recently passed away. Passed that message to one of their young players and that young player spent the game sledging the bereaved kid about having no father. Its shocking what goes on in some counties alright.
A particular hurling club in Offaly also partake in that sadistic bullshite. A clue for ye. Never won a senior championship.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Jinxy on September 10, 2018, 04:55:02 PM
Lads, is there an actual evidence-base for any of this stuff?
Seems like I've heard the same incident attributed to multiple different clubs/counties at this stage.
If people have personal experience of it fair enough, but I remember what Martin O'Connell was accused of saying to Ray Dempsey in '96 and that turned out to be nonsense.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Manning18 on September 10, 2018, 04:57:55 PM
Quote

Thankfully there was no utter scumbags playing on seans team.



Quote
I look forward to Seans recollections on diving, sledging and other stuff Tyrone (amongst others) got up to during his time.



I know this was nothing new, but the stuff on Mass and the Rosary for me is something that the Tyrone CB should be looking very strongly at.  Totally inappropriate given the message it sends out to those with other faiths and none, that have an interest in playing Gaelic Football.

Funny priorities here.

Five Points - you mightn't think it a priority and maybe I'm the only one, but I find Harte's bringing of religion into the changing room just as bad as bringing politics into it.  Very dangerous, backward road to be on.  It assumes everyone is a practicing catholic, and assumes everyone conforms.  People can be reared in the catholic community, but be very anti-church.  We do have small but rising numbers of protestants and other religions involved and need more. This is hugely inappropriate and must be tackled.  Can't understand that there isn't uproar over this.  GAA shouldn't be tolerating it in this day and age.  Before you say anything, I'm a practicing catholic myself, but find this totally wrong.

I agree with this. Forcing religion on the players in this way is completely wrong. I'm sure he offered people the option of not going to mass/saying the rosary but given Harte's dictator style, they were probably afraid to say no. A third of Tyrone's population is protestant. Now obviously 99% of them have no GAA interest, but theyre hardly encouraged to be a part of it when the leader shoves catholicism down everyone's throat. You can be fairly sure in a panel of 35 in Ireland that someone there has had a family member hurt/abused by the church and they resent it, yet feel obliged to continue the charade.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: J70 on September 10, 2018, 05:07:11 PM
Regarding the player spitting and biting, despicable stuff. Remember playing a club game against a notorious shower of dirty ba#tards. Was moved in to full forward for the last ten minutes, walked towards the full back he some how managed to go inside my boxers and grab my ball sack, which he proceeded to hold for about 6 minutes.  Nothing I could do he literally had me by the balls. Early season had decided it was my last year playing, this incident ended my interest in playing. Fat headed red neck f×cktard.

I admire your self-control. Obviously this cesspool filth was looking for a reaction, but I (and I'm about as far from violent as you could find) would have swung back and smashed his jaw with an elbow, and if that didn't level him, would have waited around after getting the red card and sorted it out after the match. I would have publicized the f**k out of the sc**bag too.

What happens on the field stays on the field my arse. There is no excuse for that type of carry on.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Jinxy on September 10, 2018, 05:26:26 PM
On the broader issues of rumours in the GAA and how they grow legs, here's another excerpt from Sean's book.

‘I’m just following up on a story that you’ve taken up with a woman’

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/im-just-following-up-on-a-story-that-youve-taken-up-with-a-woman-37299280.html (https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/im-just-following-up-on-a-story-that-youve-taken-up-with-a-woman-37299280.html)

Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: trileacman on September 10, 2018, 06:30:36 PM
That story was rife at the time. I have no doubt there was a few mentions of it on here.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Substandard on September 10, 2018, 06:46:08 PM
That story was rife at the time. I have no doubt there was a few mentions of it on here.

Over the years I've heard some amount of stories about players and managers going off with other player's wives.  I suppose statistically there's bound to be one or a few true, but it would have to be difficult and distressing to be the subject of such rumours, especially for the partners/ wives, and if they are trying to shield children.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: tonto1888 on September 10, 2018, 06:48:39 PM
Ballsy enough of Sean to admit he was crying about it in the changing room and Conor Gormley had to sort it for him.  Shows he is maybe a vulnerable, soft enough character at times as well.

Agree. A good interview overall
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: lenny on September 10, 2018, 06:50:02 PM
Quote

Thankfully there was no utter scumbags playing on seans team.



Quote
I look forward to Seans recollections on diving, sledging and other stuff Tyrone (amongst others) got up to during his time.



I know this was nothing new, but the stuff on Mass and the Rosary for me is something that the Tyrone CB should be looking very strongly at.  Totally inappropriate given the message it sends out to those with other faiths and none, that have an interest in playing Gaelic Football.

Funny priorities here.

Five Points - you mightn't think it a priority and maybe I'm the only one, but I find Harte's bringing of religion into the changing room just as bad as bringing politics into it.  Very dangerous, backward road to be on.  It assumes everyone is a practicing catholic, and assumes everyone conforms.  People can be reared in the catholic community, but be very anti-church.  We do have small but rising numbers of protestants and other religions involved and need more. This is hugely inappropriate and must be tackled.  Can't understand that there isn't uproar over this.  GAA shouldn't be tolerating it in this day and age.  Before you say anything, I'm a practicing catholic myself, but find this totally wrong.

I agree with this. Forcing religion on the players in this way is completely wrong. I'm sure he offered people the option of not going to mass/saying the rosary but given Harte's dictator style, they were probably afraid to say no. A third of Tyrone's population is protestant. Now obviously 99% of them have no GAA interest, but theyre hardly encouraged to be a part of it when the leader shoves catholicism down everyone's throat. You can be fairly sure in a panel of 35 in Ireland that someone there has had a family member hurt/abused by the church and they resent it, yet feel obliged to continue the charade.

Harte does this because he’s a bully. It’s a sad indictment of the players that they continue to put up with it.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: BennyHarp on September 10, 2018, 07:48:11 PM
Quote

Thankfully there was no utter scumbags playing on seans team.



Quote
I look forward to Seans recollections on diving, sledging and other stuff Tyrone (amongst others) got up to during his time.



I know this was nothing new, but the stuff on Mass and the Rosary for me is something that the Tyrone CB should be looking very strongly at.  Totally inappropriate given the message it sends out to those with other faiths and none, that have an interest in playing Gaelic Football.

Funny priorities here.

Five Points - you mightn't think it a priority and maybe I'm the only one, but I find Harte's bringing of religion into the changing room just as bad as bringing politics into it.  Very dangerous, backward road to be on.  It assumes everyone is a practicing catholic, and assumes everyone conforms.  People can be reared in the catholic community, but be very anti-church.  We do have small but rising numbers of protestants and other religions involved and need more. This is hugely inappropriate and must be tackled.  Can't understand that there isn't uproar over this.  GAA shouldn't be tolerating it in this day and age.  Before you say anything, I'm a practicing catholic myself, but find this totally wrong.

I agree with this. Forcing religion on the players in this way is completely wrong. I'm sure he offered people the option of not going to mass/saying the rosary but given Harte's dictator style, they were probably afraid to say no. A third of Tyrone's population is protestant. Now obviously 99% of them have no GAA interest, but theyre hardly encouraged to be a part of it when the leader shoves catholicism down everyone's throat. You can be fairly sure in a panel of 35 in Ireland that someone there has had a family member hurt/abused by the church and they resent it, yet feel obliged to continue the charade.

Harte does this because he’s a bully. It’s a sad indictment of the players that they continue to put up with it.

At least with Mickey in charge there’s a bit of respect there and standards are maintained. How’s it going in Derry where the players rule the roost and have had little or no respect for umpteen consecutive managers?
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: screenexile on September 10, 2018, 08:21:36 PM
Quote

Thankfully there was no utter scumbags playing on seans team.



Quote
I look forward to Seans recollections on diving, sledging and other stuff Tyrone (amongst others) got up to during his time.



I know this was nothing new, but the stuff on Mass and the Rosary for me is something that the Tyrone CB should be looking very strongly at.  Totally inappropriate given the message it sends out to those with other faiths and none, that have an interest in playing Gaelic Football.

Funny priorities here.

Five Points - you mightn't think it a priority and maybe I'm the only one, but I find Harte's bringing of religion into the changing room just as bad as bringing politics into it.  Very dangerous, backward road to be on.  It assumes everyone is a practicing catholic, and assumes everyone conforms.  People can be reared in the catholic community, but be very anti-church.  We do have small but rising numbers of protestants and other religions involved and need more. This is hugely inappropriate and must be tackled.  Can't understand that there isn't uproar over this.  GAA shouldn't be tolerating it in this day and age.  Before you say anything, I'm a practicing catholic myself, but find this totally wrong.

I agree with this. Forcing religion on the players in this way is completely wrong. I'm sure he offered people the option of not going to mass/saying the rosary but given Harte's dictator style, they were probably afraid to say no. A third of Tyrone's population is protestant. Now obviously 99% of them have no GAA interest, but theyre hardly encouraged to be a part of it when the leader shoves catholicism down everyone's throat. You can be fairly sure in a panel of 35 in Ireland that someone there has had a family member hurt/abused by the church and they resent it, yet feel obliged to continue the charade.

Harte does this because he’s a bully. It’s a sad indictment of the players that they continue to put up with it.

At least with Mickey in charge there’s a bit of respect there and standards are maintained. How’s it going in Derry where the players rule the roost and have had little or no respect for umpteen consecutive managers?

Well your lads won nothing this year either and are as far away from Dublin as we are so not too worried about it!!

We’ve a few good groups of young lads coming through so the future’s bright 😉😉
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Rudi on September 10, 2018, 08:25:50 PM
Regarding the player spitting and biting, despicable stuff. Remember playing a club game against a notorious shower of dirty ba#tards. Was moved in to full forward for the last ten minutes, walked towards the full back he some how managed to go inside my boxers and grab my ball sack, which he proceeded to hold for about 6 minutes.  Nothing I could do he literally had me by the balls. Early season had decided it was my last year playing, this incident ended my interest in playing. Fat headed red neck f×cktard.

I admire your self-control. Obviously this cesspool filth was looking for a reaction, but I (and I'm about as far from violent as you could find) would have swung back and smashed his jaw with an elbow, and if that didn't level him, would have waited around after getting the red card and sorted it out after the match. I would have publicized the f**k out of the sc**bag too.

What happens on the field stays on the field my arse. There is no excuse for that type of carry on.

Very surreal experience, was playing centre forward and was surprised how subdued our full forward was. I found out why. To be honest was in shock, was telling him to let go, but his head was gone. Think about it, how do you hit a man who has you by the bag, he would have ripped it off. Back in 2007, a bit of daft mentality what happens on the field stays on the field. Ironically J70 would say you know the club involved and would not surprise you. Also I wouldn't be known for my easy going temperament, that night I walked off the field disillusioned.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Fionntamhnach on September 10, 2018, 08:29:10 PM
Regarding the player spitting and biting, despicable stuff. Remember playing a club game against a notorious shower of dirty ba#tards. Was moved in to full forward for the last ten minutes, walked towards the full back he some how managed to go inside my boxers and grab my ball sack, which he proceeded to hold for about 6 minutes.  Nothing I could do he literally had me by the balls. Early season had decided it was my last year playing, this incident ended my interest in playing. Fat headed red neck f×cktard.
There was an incident a few years ago at a Tyrone All-County League club game - there was a bit of slabberin' that one player was giving to his marker whom responded shortly after by grabbing the scrotum of his opponent and quickly yank his hand away. Said opponent collapsed to the ground in agony with blood quickly running out from under his shorts, when taken to the sideline for treatment they found out that the scrotum was torn open and one testicle was visible - the player fainted upon seeing what happened to him and had to be taken to hospital.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Itchy on September 10, 2018, 10:16:57 PM
I was playing a game, up north don't you know. Fella on my team was doing nothing, innocent fella, never hurt a fly. In fact he looked after orphaned puppies in his spare time. Anyway in this game, he kicked a great score them up came this awful sc**bag b**tard ****. Pulled out a samurai sword and cut his head clean off.  Poor b**tard never played again and the perpetrator got off on an appeal. Disgusting.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: trueblue1234 on September 10, 2018, 10:24:44 PM
I was playing a game, up north don't you know. Fella on my team was doing nothing, innocent fella, never hurt a fly. In fact he looked after orphaned puppies in his spare time. Anyway in this game, he kicked a great score them up came this awful sc**bag b**tard ****. Pulled out a samurai sword and cut his head clean off.  Poor b**tard never played again and the perpetrator got off on an appeal. Disgusting.

Your really taking this bad aren’t you. It’s ok, there’s stories about every county. Pass no remarks.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: BennyCake on September 10, 2018, 10:45:22 PM
I was playing a game, up north don't you know. Fella on my team was doing nothing, innocent fella, never hurt a fly. In fact he looked after orphaned puppies in his spare time. Anyway in this game, he kicked a great score them up came this awful sc**bag b**tard ****. Pulled out a samurai sword and cut his head clean off.  Poor b**tard never played again and the perpetrator got off on an appeal. Disgusting.

Did the ref spell his name wrong? Was that how he got off?
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: APM on September 10, 2018, 11:01:25 PM
I was playing a game, up north don't you know. Fella on my team was doing nothing, innocent fella, never hurt a fly. In fact he looked after orphaned puppies in his spare time. Anyway in this game, he kicked a great score them up came this awful sc**bag b**tard ****. Pulled out a samurai sword and cut his head clean off.  Poor b**tard never played again and the perpetrator got off on an appeal. Disgusting.

Did the ref spell his name wrong? Was that how he got off?

That's only a black card!
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Itchy on September 10, 2018, 11:16:58 PM
I was playing a game, up north don't you know. Fella on my team was doing nothing, innocent fella, never hurt a fly. In fact he looked after orphaned puppies in his spare time. Anyway in this game, he kicked a great score them up came this awful sc**bag b**tard ****. Pulled out a samurai sword and cut his head clean off.  Poor b**tard never played again and the perpetrator got off on an appeal. Disgusting.

Did the ref spell his name wrong? Was that how he got off?

That's only a black card!

I believe he spelt Samurai wrong. School boy mistake.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Itchy on September 10, 2018, 11:19:03 PM
I was playing a game, up north don't you know. Fella on my team was doing nothing, innocent fella, never hurt a fly. In fact he looked after orphaned puppies in his spare time. Anyway in this game, he kicked a great score them up came this awful sc**bag b**tard ****. Pulled out a samurai sword and cut his head clean off.  Poor b**tard never played again and the perpetrator got off on an appeal. Disgusting.

Your really taking this bad aren’t you. It’s ok, there’s stories about every county. Pass no remarks.

I'm putting it all in my book.

"The Itch you can't scratch"

There will be the Rosari, loads of masses, diving and sledging. Plus a great story about Me, Sphillis and Joe Brolly drinking pints in Tulsk - such craic.

Out for Christmas, get it for the kids.

Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Fionntamhnach on September 10, 2018, 11:46:12 PM
I was playing a game, up north don't you know. Fella on my team was doing nothing, innocent fella, never hurt a fly. In fact he looked after orphaned puppies in his spare time. Anyway in this game, he kicked a great score them up came this awful sc**bag b**tard ****. Pulled out a samurai sword and cut his head clean off.  Poor b**tard never played again and the perpetrator got off on an appeal. Disgusting.


Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Jinxy on September 11, 2018, 09:00:05 AM
Kimmage needs to look into this thing with the sword.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on September 11, 2018, 10:14:08 AM
I was playing a game, up north don't you know. Fella on my team was doing nothing, innocent fella, never hurt a fly. In fact he looked after orphaned puppies in his spare time. Anyway in this game, he kicked a great score them up came this awful sc**bag b**tard ****. Pulled out a samurai sword and cut his head clean off.  Poor b**tard never played again and the perpetrator got off on an appeal. Disgusting.

I'm going to ask the question on everyone else's minds - what happened the poor puppies?   :'(
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: screenexile on September 11, 2018, 01:52:28 PM
I was playing a game, up north don't you know. Fella on my team was doing nothing, innocent fella, never hurt a fly. In fact he looked after orphaned puppies in his spare time. Anyway in this game, he kicked a great score them up came this awful sc**bag b**tard ****. Pulled out a samurai sword and cut his head clean off.  Poor b**tard never played again and the perpetrator got off on an appeal. Disgusting.

Best post on the board for a long time fair play!!!
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Therealdonald on September 11, 2018, 04:26:49 PM
Remember a few of our young boys went to that U16 Ulster Camp that there is every year (or at least used to be). Walsh was one of the main men at it, but this year Cavanagh was the guest speaker. This camp happened the year after the incidents, so Cavanagh started of his talk " Is something not upside down here, if Nicholas is here teaching young boys how to play football" or something to that effect. The boys got kind of excited between Cavanagh's jibe and Tony Scullion and his rushes story so something might have been lost in translation
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Christmas Lights on September 11, 2018, 04:58:42 PM
I was playing a game, up north don't you know. Fella on my team was doing nothing, innocent fella, never hurt a fly. In fact he looked after orphaned puppies in his spare time. Anyway in this game, he kicked a great score them up came this awful sc**bag b**tard ****. Pulled out a samurai sword and cut his head clean off.  Poor b**tard never played again and the perpetrator got off on an appeal. Disgusting.

Bet that was funny in your head mate?  You really should read what you type before you post.


Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Itchy on September 11, 2018, 05:18:46 PM
I was playing a game, up north don't you know. Fella on my team was doing nothing, innocent fella, never hurt a fly. In fact he looked after orphaned puppies in his spare time. Anyway in this game, he kicked a great score them up came this awful sc**bag b**tard ****. Pulled out a samurai sword and cut his head clean off.  Poor b**tard never played again and the perpetrator got off on an appeal. Disgusting.

Bet that was funny in your head mate?  You really should read what you type before you post.




You're a bit of a looker, fancy swapping numbers?
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Christmas Lights on September 11, 2018, 05:25:05 PM
**Checks County**

Shows Cavan. 

Sorry not today dear, Id end up having to pay for everything.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Smurfy123 on September 11, 2018, 05:37:58 PM
Wasn’t it Nicolas Walsh who done the spitting?
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Itchy on September 11, 2018, 06:24:24 PM
**Checks County**

Shows Cavan. 

Sorry not today dear, Id end up having to pay for everything.

Well if you keep posting up your picture online you are going to attract all sorts of undesirables- cavan men, Tyrone sledgers and possibly a pimple ridden child from roscommon
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: mrdeeds on September 11, 2018, 07:21:43 PM
Wasn’t it Nicolas Walsh who done the spitting?

Yeah.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Jinxy on September 11, 2018, 08:32:36 PM
Larry Reilly spat at a fella once...










he drowned.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 11, 2018, 08:50:42 PM
Cavanagh doing a great job selling this book. But to be honest I'm sick reading about him now.

Seems to be selling himself as a houlier than thou figure from the excerpts. Sean is no saint.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: redzone on September 11, 2018, 09:02:54 PM
Larry shagged a goat one time


They called the Kid Itchy
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: screenexile on September 11, 2018, 11:40:48 PM
Is there not something a bit hypocritical slagging off a lad for spitting and nipping you during a match when one of your team mates was doing the exact same to the opposition??
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 11, 2018, 11:58:55 PM
I dunno - is there?
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: BennyCake on September 12, 2018, 12:00:07 AM
Is there not something a bit hypocritical slagging off a lad for spitting and nipping you during a match when one of your team mates was doing the exact same to the opposition??

Only one, eh?
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Niall Quinn on September 12, 2018, 12:07:06 AM
PK: Now you're 23 years old at this stage.

Or 22 - his failure to correct doesn’t endear me to his accountancy practice.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: reddgnhand on September 12, 2018, 12:08:47 AM
Is there not something a bit hypocritical slagging off a lad for spitting and nipping you during a match when one of your team mates was doing the exact same to the opposition??

Who?
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: snoopdog on September 13, 2018, 09:38:05 AM
Id say all the best bits have been covered. No point buying the book now. Limiref market i wonder how many books they need to sell to break even.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 13, 2018, 09:50:36 AM
Is there not something a bit hypocritical slagging off a lad for spitting and nipping you during a match when one of your team mates was doing the exact same to the opposition??

Who?

Ah come on lads - we all know what some of the best players Tyrone had in the 00s were up to, McMenamin just took the notoriety but Lawn, Gormley, Jordan, McGee, McMahons were all keen exploiters of the dark arts, of course they hit fair, they also were more than happy to go unfair too.

Lets call a spade a spade, nice guys finish last and all that.

Cavanagh continues his revision of history but he's fooling noone.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Shamrock Shore on September 13, 2018, 10:17:32 AM
He's on Radio 1 soon talking to Sean O'Rourke.

Tweet in your comments or questions to Sean @todaysor

Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Dire Ear on September 13, 2018, 11:11:29 AM
Is there not something a bit hypocritical slagging off a lad for spitting and nipping you during a match when one of your team mates was doing the exact same to the opposition??

Who?

Ah come on lads - we all know what some of the best players Tyrone had in the 00s were up to, McMenamin just took the notoriety but Lawn, Gormley, Jordan, McGee, McMahons were all keen exploiters of the dark arts, of course they hit fair, they also were more than happy to go unfair too.

Lets call a spade a spade, nice guys finish last and all that.

Cavanagh continues his revision of history but he's fooling noone.
Simple question here,  should Cav have turned and buried Walsh that day,  got sent off and weakened the team? Or what were his options?
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 13, 2018, 11:15:40 AM
Who says he had to get himself sent off? Sean is what, 6'5" and 14 stone? He's well able to handle himself. From his writing here you'd think this lad was an introverted 5'5" and 9 stone wet.

He showed considerable restraint, but as he's himself admitted, he's dealt out his fair share of (unjust) punishment (M.Murphy).



Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: haranguerer on September 13, 2018, 11:43:13 AM
Its sensationalised bullshit
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Owenmoresider on September 13, 2018, 01:41:22 PM
Who says he had to get himself sent off? Sean is what, 6'5" and 14 stone? He's well able to handle himself. From his writing here you'd think this lad was an introverted 5'5" and 9 stone wet.

He showed considerable restraint, but as he's himself admitted, he's dealt out his fair share of (unjust) punishment (M.Murphy).
Yeah you'd nearly think he was Colm Cooper the way he went on. Not of course that Cooper would ever be the subject of the dark arts from Cavanagh's colleagues, perish the thought.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: haranguerer on September 13, 2018, 01:59:00 PM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2018/0913/993499-there-always-seemed-to-be-a-need-to-hate-other-teams/

The guy is an arsehole. Everything bad was Mickeys fault. No doubt everything good was down to Sean  ::)
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: trileacman on September 13, 2018, 02:46:36 PM
The recurring theme in any extract from the book is “Sean the victim”. Echoes his personality on the pitch where he spent the vast majority of his later career with his arms outstretched appealing for frees.

“My mum was sick all week, Colm was sick, etc” Jesus he lines up enough favourable excuses for himself.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Insane Bolt on September 13, 2018, 02:50:05 PM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2018/0913/993499-there-always-seemed-to-be-a-need-to-hate-other-teams/

The guy is an arsehole. Everything bad was Mickeys fault. No doubt everything good was down to Sean  ::)

Sean is selling a book......I would have loved him on my team.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Christmas Lights on September 13, 2018, 03:11:40 PM
Hail Sean Cavanagh.  Tyrones second best player ever behind Peter the Great.  Haterz gonna hate.

Id say why Mickey Harte was seething after the Cork game was because Seany decided to have a few magners on the way home from Croke Park after the defeat  8)

Cav  8)
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: reddgnhand on September 13, 2018, 06:11:53 PM
Hail Sean Cavanagh.  Tyrones second best player ever behind Peter the Great.  Haterz gonna hate.

Id say why Mickey Harte was seething after the Cork game was because Seany decided to have a few magners on the way home from Croke Park after the defeat  8)

Cav  8)

Whats wrong with that?
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: lenny on September 13, 2018, 06:53:13 PM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2018/0913/993499-there-always-seemed-to-be-a-need-to-hate-other-teams/

The guy is an arsehole. Everything bad was Mickeys fault. No doubt everything good was down to Sean  ::)

He’ll be remembered as a legend long after harte. Harte has destroyed his own legacy this last 10 years by not getting remotely close to winning another all ireland in spite of having good teams. That shows it was the players who won the 3 all ireland’s and not any genius from harte. And don’t even mention this year when tyrone got an extremely handy draw avoiding kerry, mayo and galway. And even then it took a goal completely against the run of play v monaghan to sneak into the final where they were stuffed. It’s nice to see cavanagh call out harte on his nasty streak because everybody knew it was there but it’s now been confirmed.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: omaghjoe on September 13, 2018, 07:00:30 PM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2018/0913/993499-there-always-seemed-to-be-a-need-to-hate-other-teams/

The guy is an arsehole. Everything bad was Mickeys fault. No doubt everything good was down to Sean  ::)

He’ll be remembered as a legend long afterwards harte. Harte has destroyed his legacy this last 10 years by not getting remotely close to winning another all ireland in spite of having good teams. That shows it was the players who won the 3 all ireland’s and not any genius from harte. And don’t even mention this year when tyrone got an extremely handy draw avoiding kerry, mayo and galway. And even then it took a goal completely against the run of play v monaghan to sneak into the final where they were stuffed. It’s nice to see cavanagh call out harte on his nasty streak because everybody knew it was there but it’s now been confirmed.

A handy draw would have involved playing Derry and a bunch of other Div 4 teams.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: In hiding on September 13, 2018, 08:58:54 PM
The recurring theme in any extract from the book is “Sean the victim”. Echoes his personality on the pitch where he spent the vast majority of his later career with his arms outstretched appealing for frees.

“My mum was sick all week, Colm was sick, etc” Jesus he lines up enough favourable excuses for himself.

Strange post.
Is he not saying there was a sick bug in the house during the week before the game.
If he had just said he was sick on the Friday night would you be happier
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: trileacman on September 13, 2018, 09:25:10 PM
The recurring theme in any extract from the book is “Sean the victim”. Echoes his personality on the pitch where he spent the vast majority of his later career with his arms outstretched appealing for frees.

“My mum was sick all week, Colm was sick, etc” Jesus he lines up enough favourable excuses for himself.

Strange post.
Is he not saying there was a sick bug in the house during the week before the game.
If he had just said he was sick on the Friday night would you be happier

It's in a recurring theme of extracts from his book; the long walks, sick before the match, being spat at, Brolly's outburst. I find it all reads a bit like this:


Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Smurfy123 on September 13, 2018, 09:29:59 PM
Cavanagh is the 2nd best player to wvwr play for Tyrone without question. He was a super talented player but his gripes with Harte is letting his legacy down a bagful. Do Tyrone ones rate him as highly ?
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Champion The Wonder Horse on September 13, 2018, 09:36:52 PM
Cavanagh is the 2nd best player to wvwr play for Tyrone without question. He was a super talented player but his gripes with Harte is letting his legacy down a bagful. Do Tyrone ones rate him as highly ?

No, he isn’t.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: An Watcher on September 13, 2018, 10:04:59 PM
I'd have Conor Gormley right up there with Peter and above Sean.  No harm to anyone
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: In hiding on September 13, 2018, 10:19:41 PM
Cavanagh is the 2nd best player to wvwr play for Tyrone without question. He was a super talented player but his gripes with Harte is letting his legacy down a bagful. Do Tyrone ones rate him as highly ?

One of Tyrones best ever. Absolutely
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: trileacman on September 13, 2018, 10:55:11 PM
Canavan is probably the de jeur answer to that question. There's a fairly strong argument to be made for both big Frank and Stephen O'Neill who when on form were both unplayable. I think O'Neill is the most overlooked of the trio, all 3 had those trademark performances (84, 95 and 05). Cavanagh is certainly up there but the character and personality of Big Frank and Canavan just puts them in another echelon. For me it's something like O'Neill, Canavan, McGuigan, Sean.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Throw ball on September 14, 2018, 12:23:06 AM
What about Iggy Jones or Jody O'Neill
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Evil Genius on September 14, 2018, 01:04:17 AM
I know this was nothing new, but the stuff on Mass and the Rosary for me is something that the Tyrone CB should be looking very strongly at.  Totally inappropriate given the message it sends out to those with other faiths and none, that have an interest in playing Gaelic Football.
Noticed an reference to this elsewhere, so took a quick look to see what the reaction was on this forum.

Frankly, I'm shocked - though not surprised - that this particular aspect of Cavanagh's book doesn't merit a thread of its own (or at least some comment from more than one or two individuals).

I mean, is no-one else astonished, even outraged, that a team manager could get away with imposing his personal religious leanings on an entire team, to the exclusion of those who may feel differently?

i read a lot of stuff about sledging and foul play etc, but there is at least some possible redress (referee) or comeback (retaliation) to those things, but what can someone on the Tyrone panel who doesn't agree say or do to this? Speak out and never play for the county again?

And all that's BEFORE you get to the context of sport and society in  NI.

Could you imagine the shitstorm if eg the Linfield manager required his players eg to take part in some sort of Orange Order parade, or British armed forces commemoration, or attend a Free Presbyterian service?

It would be roundly and publicly condemned, with the governing body clamping down immediately, and QUITE RIGHTLY too, imo. In fact, it's unthinkable. (And I say that as someone who pretty much despises Linfield, btw).

"GAA For All (Protestants need not apply)"
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Newbridge Exile on September 14, 2018, 01:07:43 AM
Canavan is probably the de jeur answer to that question. There's a fairly strong argument to be made for both big Frank and Stephen O'Neill who when on form were both unplayable. I think O'Neill is the most overlooked of the trio, all 3 had those trademark performances (84, 95 and 05). Cavanagh is certainly up there but the character and personality of Big Frank and Canavan just puts them in another echelon. For me it's something like O'Neill, Canavan, McGuigan, Sean.
Eugene McKenna has to be up there too
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on September 14, 2018, 01:50:15 AM
Canavan is probably the de jeur answer to that question...

De jeur, huh?

Should that be de jure (in law), or de joueur (of a player, though in French)?  :P ;)
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: haranguerer on September 14, 2018, 10:31:18 AM
I know this was nothing new, but the stuff on Mass and the Rosary for me is something that the Tyrone CB should be looking very strongly at.  Totally inappropriate given the message it sends out to those with other faiths and none, that have an interest in playing Gaelic Football.
Noticed an reference to this elsewhere, so took a quick look to see what the reaction was on this forum.

Frankly, I'm shocked - though not surprised - that this particular aspect of Cavanagh's book doesn't merit a thread of its own (or at least some comment from more than one or two individuals).

I mean, is no-one else astonished, even outraged, that a team manager could get away with imposing his personal religious leanings on an entire team, to the exclusion of those who may feel differently?

i read a lot of stuff about sledging and foul play etc, but there is at least some possible redress (referee) or comeback (retaliation) to those things, but what can someone on the Tyrone panel who doesn't agree say or do to this? Speak out and never play for the county again?

And all that's BEFORE you get to the context of sport and society in  NI.

Could you imagine the shitstorm if eg the Linfield manager required his players eg to take part in some sort of Orange Order parade, or British armed forces commemoration, or attend a Free Presbyterian service?

It would be roundly and publicly condemned, with the governing body clamping down immediately, and QUITE RIGHTLY too, imo. In fact, it's unthinkable. (And I say that as someone who pretty much despises Linfield, btw).

"GAA For All (Protestants need not apply)"

Those aren't accurate comparisons - I'd say an accurate comparison would be attending a church service, and the comparisons you've chosen are telling about you, but your general point is valid. (On a slight tangent though, weren't Irish league players forced to take part in a ceremony and have an anthem they don't recognise as theirs played as though it were recently??)

I don't see it as a big imposition at all, but nonetheless everyone should have their own free choice - I haven't seen any evidence yet that they didn't. If anyone went to MH and said, I'm not comfortable, do you really think they would have suffered repercussions re selection? I doubt it very much. It would seem noone involved had an issue (Unlike the Irish league example I mentioned earlier actually).

The majority of Irish catholics are brought up with the ritual of mass, when they have their own free choice they'll all attend weddings, funerals, mass at easter/christmas, for whatever reason. A mass before games in this context isn't a big deal. Irish catholicism isn't taken that seriously, its just a routine for many, and I think thats the context it needs to be taken in. its not forcing your religious views onto others, as it is being portrayed.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: westbound on September 14, 2018, 10:49:01 AM
I know this was nothing new, but the stuff on Mass and the Rosary for me is something that the Tyrone CB should be looking very strongly at.  Totally inappropriate given the message it sends out to those with other faiths and none, that have an interest in playing Gaelic Football.
Noticed an reference to this elsewhere, so took a quick look to see what the reaction was on this forum.

Frankly, I'm shocked - though not surprised - that this particular aspect of Cavanagh's book doesn't merit a thread of its own (or at least some comment from more than one or two individuals).

I mean, is no-one else astonished, even outraged, that a team manager could get away with imposing his personal religious leanings on an entire team, to the exclusion of those who may feel differently?

i read a lot of stuff about sledging and foul play etc, but there is at least some possible redress (referee) or comeback (retaliation) to those things, but what can someone on the Tyrone panel who doesn't agree say or do to this? Speak out and never play for the county again?

And all that's BEFORE you get to the context of sport and society in  NI.

Could you imagine the shitstorm if eg the Linfield manager required his players eg to take part in some sort of Orange Order parade, or British armed forces commemoration, or attend a Free Presbyterian service?

It would be roundly and publicly condemned, with the governing body clamping down immediately, and QUITE RIGHTLY too, imo. In fact, it's unthinkable. (And I say that as someone who pretty much despises Linfield, btw).

"GAA For All (Protestants need not apply)"

Those aren't accurate comparisons - I'd say an accurate comparison would be attending a church service, and the comparisons you've chosen are telling about you, but your general point is valid. (On a slight tangent though, weren't Irish league players forced to take part in a ceremony and have an anthem they don't recognise as theirs played as though it were recently??)

I don't see it as a big imposition at all, but nonetheless everyone should have their own free choice - I haven't seen any evidence yet that they didn't. If anyone went to MH and said, I'm not comfortable, do you really think they would have suffered repercussions re selection? I doubt it very much. It would seem noone involved had an issue (Unlike the Irish league example I mentioned earlier actually).

The majority of Irish catholics are brought up with the ritual of mass, when they have their own free choice they'll all attend weddings, funerals, mass at easter/christmas, for whatever reason. A mass before games in this context isn't a big deal. Irish catholicism isn't taken that seriously, its just a routine for many, and I think thats the context it needs to be taken in. its not forcing your religious views onto others, as it is being portrayed.

I think you missed the point there.
Most Irish catholics wouldn't have a major problem with it. But What about somebody who isn't catholic? It's a pretty big deal to anyone of any other religion (or no religion).  It could certainly be viewed as 'forcing' your catholic views onto non catholics.
Obviously, we don't know how much 'forcing' was done, but all managers want players to do things as a team. Therefore it's likely that everyone was strongly encouraged to go as a team!

Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Redhand Santa on September 14, 2018, 10:55:58 AM
I know this was nothing new, but the stuff on Mass and the Rosary for me is something that the Tyrone CB should be looking very strongly at.  Totally inappropriate given the message it sends out to those with other faiths and none, that have an interest in playing Gaelic Football.
Noticed an reference to this elsewhere, so took a quick look to see what the reaction was on this forum.

Frankly, I'm shocked - though not surprised - that this particular aspect of Cavanagh's book doesn't merit a thread of its own (or at least some comment from more than one or two individuals).

I mean, is no-one else astonished, even outraged, that a team manager could get away with imposing his personal religious leanings on an entire team, to the exclusion of those who may feel differently?

i read a lot of stuff about sledging and foul play etc, but there is at least some possible redress (referee) or comeback (retaliation) to those things, but what can someone on the Tyrone panel who doesn't agree say or do to this? Speak out and never play for the county again?

And all that's BEFORE you get to the context of sport and society in  NI.

Could you imagine the shitstorm if eg the Linfield manager required his players eg to take part in some sort of Orange Order parade, or British armed forces commemoration, or attend a Free Presbyterian service?

It would be roundly and publicly condemned, with the governing body clamping down immediately, and QUITE RIGHTLY too, imo. In fact, it's unthinkable. (And I say that as someone who pretty much despises Linfield, btw).

"GAA For All (Protestants need not apply)"

Those aren't accurate comparisons - I'd say an accurate comparison would be attending a church service, and the comparisons you've chosen are telling about you, but your general point is valid. (On a slight tangent though, weren't Irish league players forced to take part in a ceremony and have an anthem they don't recognise as theirs played as though it were recently??)

I don't see it as a big imposition at all, but nonetheless everyone should have their own free choice - I haven't seen any evidence yet that they didn't. If anyone went to MH and said, I'm not comfortable, do you really think they would have suffered repercussions re selection? I doubt it very much. It would seem noone involved had an issue (Unlike the Irish league example I mentioned earlier actually).

The majority of Irish catholics are brought up with the ritual of mass, when they have their own free choice they'll all attend weddings, funerals, mass at easter/christmas, for whatever reason. A mass before games in this context isn't a big deal. Irish catholicism isn't taken that seriously, its just a routine for many, and I think thats the context it needs to be taken in. its not forcing your religious views onto others, as it is being portrayed.

I think you missed the point there.
Most Irish catholics wouldn't have a major problem with it. But What about somebody who isn't catholic? It's a pretty big deal to anyone of any other religion (or no religion).  It could certainly be viewed as 'forcing' your catholic views onto non catholics.
Obviously, we don't know how much 'forcing' was done, but all managers want players to do things as a team. Therefore it's likely that everyone was strongly encouraged to go as a team!

And who on the team isn't Irish or from a catholic background?
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: haranguerer on September 14, 2018, 11:01:04 AM
I know this was nothing new, but the stuff on Mass and the Rosary for me is something that the Tyrone CB should be looking very strongly at.  Totally inappropriate given the message it sends out to those with other faiths and none, that have an interest in playing Gaelic Football.
Noticed an reference to this elsewhere, so took a quick look to see what the reaction was on this forum.

Frankly, I'm shocked - though not surprised - that this particular aspect of Cavanagh's book doesn't merit a thread of its own (or at least some comment from more than one or two individuals).

I mean, is no-one else astonished, even outraged, that a team manager could get away with imposing his personal religious leanings on an entire team, to the exclusion of those who may feel differently?

i read a lot of stuff about sledging and foul play etc, but there is at least some possible redress (referee) or comeback (retaliation) to those things, but what can someone on the Tyrone panel who doesn't agree say or do to this? Speak out and never play for the county again?

And all that's BEFORE you get to the context of sport and society in  NI.

Could you imagine the shitstorm if eg the Linfield manager required his players eg to take part in some sort of Orange Order parade, or British armed forces commemoration, or attend a Free Presbyterian service?

It would be roundly and publicly condemned, with the governing body clamping down immediately, and QUITE RIGHTLY too, imo. In fact, it's unthinkable. (And I say that as someone who pretty much despises Linfield, btw).

"GAA For All (Protestants need not apply)"

Those aren't accurate comparisons - I'd say an accurate comparison would be attending a church service, and the comparisons you've chosen are telling about you, but your general point is valid. (On a slight tangent though, weren't Irish league players forced to take part in a ceremony and have an anthem they don't recognise as theirs played as though it were recently??)

I don't see it as a big imposition at all, but nonetheless everyone should have their own free choice - I haven't seen any evidence yet that they didn't. If anyone went to MH and said, I'm not comfortable, do you really think they would have suffered repercussions re selection? I doubt it very much. It would seem noone involved had an issue (Unlike the Irish league example I mentioned earlier actually).

The majority of Irish catholics are brought up with the ritual of mass, when they have their own free choice they'll all attend weddings, funerals, mass at easter/christmas, for whatever reason. A mass before games in this context isn't a big deal. Irish catholicism isn't taken that seriously, its just a routine for many, and I think thats the context it needs to be taken in. its not forcing your religious views onto others, as it is being portrayed.

I think you missed the point there.
Most Irish catholics wouldn't have a major problem with it. But What about somebody who isn't catholic? It's a pretty big deal to anyone of any other religion (or no religion).  It could certainly be viewed as 'forcing' your catholic views onto non catholics.
Obviously, we don't know how much 'forcing' was done, but all managers want players to do things as a team. Therefore it's likely that everyone was strongly encouraged to go as a team!

I'm not missing the point. The players were all from a catholic background. The hypothetical situation you describe didn't occur. If it had, I'm sure it would have been dealt with in the proper manner. MH would of course have been aware of the situation and adjusted accordingly. He is there to build bonds and win matches, not convert people to catholicism.

At the end of the day, this was something willingly partaken in by a group of people comfortable with the environment they were in. What we now have is people outside that environment theorising about what took place, or could have took place, or how players probably weren't comfortable but weren't able to say anything....none of which I believe for a second.

And of course, it could be noted that if there was an issue the captain should surely be the person to bring that up with the management team at the time. Instead he sniped about it later, and hasn't chosen to point out that everyone seemed satisfied with the arrangement (if there'd been any murmurings you can bet he'd have written about them!)
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: trailer on September 14, 2018, 11:03:24 AM
I know this was nothing new, but the stuff on Mass and the Rosary for me is something that the Tyrone CB should be looking very strongly at.  Totally inappropriate given the message it sends out to those with other faiths and none, that have an interest in playing Gaelic Football.
Noticed an reference to this elsewhere, so took a quick look to see what the reaction was on this forum.

Frankly, I'm shocked - though not surprised - that this particular aspect of Cavanagh's book doesn't merit a thread of its own (or at least some comment from more than one or two individuals).

I mean, is no-one else astonished, even outraged, that a team manager could get away with imposing his personal religious leanings on an entire team, to the exclusion of those who may feel differently?

i read a lot of stuff about sledging and foul play etc, but there is at least some possible redress (referee) or comeback (retaliation) to those things, but what can someone on the Tyrone panel who doesn't agree say or do to this? Speak out and never play for the county again?

And all that's BEFORE you get to the context of sport and society in  NI.

Could you imagine the shitstorm if eg the Linfield manager required his players eg to take part in some sort of Orange Order parade, or British armed forces commemoration, or attend a Free Presbyterian service?

It would be roundly and publicly condemned, with the governing body clamping down immediately, and QUITE RIGHTLY too, imo. In fact, it's unthinkable. (And I say that as someone who pretty much despises Linfield, btw).

"GAA For All (Protestants need not apply)"

This is not a fair equivalence

Crusaders FC are well known for their Christianity indeed some players are 'Saved' I believe this also includes in the Manager.

Catholics pray - shocker.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: haranguerer on September 14, 2018, 11:10:00 AM
Thats not a fair comparison either - that sounds a personal choice and practice, unless the dressing room collectively were led in prayer by some of these individuals.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Jinxy on September 14, 2018, 11:14:07 AM
I always wondered how the whole praying before/after games in the dressing-room thing works in American Football, given that there are quite a few muslim players in the NFL.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: trailer on September 14, 2018, 11:27:31 AM
Thats not a fair comparison either - that sounds a personal choice and practice, unless the dressing room collectively were led in prayer by some of these individuals.

Indeed it's not. That why I wrote it.
"Crusaders are still known for their Christian ethos. A quarter of the dressing room have connections with the Evangelical churches that pepper north Belfast"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41692565

But it's personal choice in the Tyrone dressing room as well, yet Evil Genius attacks this saying it's a cold house for Protestants.
This all comes back to one thing and one thing only. Protestants in NI have an in built belief that they are superior and better than Catholics. It manifested itself in the discrimination of Catholics since the formation of NI and has since manifested itself in the DUP's failure to provide good government in NI and their laise faire attitude to equality.
This is the root of every single Protestant attack on the GAA.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: An Watcher on September 14, 2018, 11:35:10 AM
Don't really see the problem here and it is probably used to help b9nd the team more than anything.  No big deal
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Itchy on September 14, 2018, 11:35:28 AM
I know this was nothing new, but the stuff on Mass and the Rosary for me is something that the Tyrone CB should be looking very strongly at.  Totally inappropriate given the message it sends out to those with other faiths and none, that have an interest in playing Gaelic Football.
Noticed an reference to this elsewhere, so took a quick look to see what the reaction was on this forum.

Frankly, I'm shocked - though not surprised - that this particular aspect of Cavanagh's book doesn't merit a thread of its own (or at least some comment from more than one or two individuals).

I mean, is no-one else astonished, even outraged, that a team manager could get away with imposing his personal religious leanings on an entire team, to the exclusion of those who may feel differently?

i read a lot of stuff about sledging and foul play etc, but there is at least some possible redress (referee) or comeback (retaliation) to those things, but what can someone on the Tyrone panel who doesn't agree say or do to this? Speak out and never play for the county again?

And all that's BEFORE you get to the context of sport and society in  NI.

Could you imagine the shitstorm if eg the Linfield manager required his players eg to take part in some sort of Orange Order parade, or British armed forces commemoration, or attend a Free Presbyterian service?

It would be roundly and publicly condemned, with the governing body clamping down immediately, and QUITE RIGHTLY too, imo. In fact, it's unthinkable. (And I say that as someone who pretty much despises Linfield, btw).

"GAA For All (Protestants need not apply)"

I don't think your comparisons to OO are correct. But in general your point is. Harte should not be forcing his players to attend mass or say the Rosary or anything like that. But Harte is a bully and unfortunately a successful Bully which means his methods are beyond question from many in Tyrone. Do Tyrone have any protestants playing for them? Probably unlikely they will if this is what is going on. I think Ulster GAA or national GAA should put some sort of ban or at least a statement out saying this is not acceptable.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: haranguerer on September 14, 2018, 12:16:03 PM
I know this was nothing new, but the stuff on Mass and the Rosary for me is something that the Tyrone CB should be looking very strongly at.  Totally inappropriate given the message it sends out to those with other faiths and none, that have an interest in playing Gaelic Football.
Noticed an reference to this elsewhere, so took a quick look to see what the reaction was on this forum.

Frankly, I'm shocked - though not surprised - that this particular aspect of Cavanagh's book doesn't merit a thread of its own (or at least some comment from more than one or two individuals).

I mean, is no-one else astonished, even outraged, that a team manager could get away with imposing his personal religious leanings on an entire team, to the exclusion of those who may feel differently?

i read a lot of stuff about sledging and foul play etc, but there is at least some possible redress (referee) or comeback (retaliation) to those things, but what can someone on the Tyrone panel who doesn't agree say or do to this? Speak out and never play for the county again?

And all that's BEFORE you get to the context of sport and society in  NI.

Could you imagine the shitstorm if eg the Linfield manager required his players eg to take part in some sort of Orange Order parade, or British armed forces commemoration, or attend a Free Presbyterian service?

It would be roundly and publicly condemned, with the governing body clamping down immediately, and QUITE RIGHTLY too, imo. In fact, it's unthinkable. (And I say that as someone who pretty much despises Linfield, btw).

"GAA For All (Protestants need not apply)"

I don't think your comparisons to OO are correct. But in general your point is. Harte should not be forcing his players to attend mass or say the Rosary or anything like that. But Harte is a bully and unfortunately a successful Bully which means his methods are beyond question from many in Tyrone. Do Tyrone have any protestants playing for them? Probably unlikely they will if this is what is going on. I think Ulster GAA or national GAA should put some sort of ban or at least a statement out saying this is not acceptable.

Not that a post as ridiculous as yours deserves any acknowledgement, but perhaps worth point out again - there has been no suggestion from any informed sources that Harte was forcing his players to attend mass.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Zulu on September 14, 2018, 12:38:38 PM
I know this was nothing new, but the stuff on Mass and the Rosary for me is something that the Tyrone CB should be looking very strongly at.  Totally inappropriate given the message it sends out to those with other faiths and none, that have an interest in playing Gaelic Football.
Noticed an reference to this elsewhere, so took a quick look to see what the reaction was on this forum.

Frankly, I'm shocked - though not surprised - that this particular aspect of Cavanagh's book doesn't merit a thread of its own (or at least some comment from more than one or two individuals).

I mean, is no-one else astonished, even outraged, that a team manager could get away with imposing his personal religious leanings on an entire team, to the exclusion of those who may feel differently?

i read a lot of stuff about sledging and foul play etc, but there is at least some possible redress (referee) or comeback (retaliation) to those things, but what can someone on the Tyrone panel who doesn't agree say or do to this? Speak out and never play for the county again?

And all that's BEFORE you get to the context of sport and society in  NI.

Could you imagine the shitstorm if eg the Linfield manager required his players eg to take part in some sort of Orange Order parade, or British armed forces commemoration, or attend a Free Presbyterian service?

It would be roundly and publicly condemned, with the governing body clamping down immediately, and QUITE RIGHTLY too, imo. In fact, it's unthinkable. (And I say that as someone who pretty much despises Linfield, btw).

"GAA For All (Protestants need not apply)"

Those aren't accurate comparisons - I'd say an accurate comparison would be attending a church service, and the comparisons you've chosen are telling about you, but your general point is valid. (On a slight tangent though, weren't Irish league players forced to take part in a ceremony and have an anthem they don't recognise as theirs played as though it were recently??)

I don't see it as a big imposition at all, but nonetheless everyone should have their own free choice - I haven't seen any evidence yet that they didn't. If anyone went to MH and said, I'm not comfortable, do you really think they would have suffered repercussions re selection? I doubt it very much. It would seem noone involved had an issue (Unlike the Irish league example I mentioned earlier actually).

The majority of Irish catholics are brought up with the ritual of mass, when they have their own free choice they'll all attend weddings, funerals, mass at easter/christmas, for whatever reason. A mass before games in this context isn't a big deal. Irish catholicism isn't taken that seriously, its just a routine for many, and I think thats the context it needs to be taken in. its not forcing your religious views onto others, as it is being portrayed.

I think you missed the point there.
Most Irish catholics wouldn't have a major problem with it. But What about somebody who isn't catholic? It's a pretty big deal to anyone of any other religion (or no religion).  It could certainly be viewed as 'forcing' your catholic views onto non catholics.
Obviously, we don't know how much 'forcing' was done, but all managers want players to do things as a team. Therefore it's likely that everyone was strongly encouraged to go as a team!

I'm not missing the point. The players were all from a catholic background. The hypothetical situation you describe didn't occur. If it had, I'm sure it would have been dealt with in the proper manner. MH would of course have been aware of the situation and adjusted accordingly. He is there to build bonds and win matches, not convert people to catholicism.

At the end of the day, this was something willingly partaken in by a group of people comfortable with the environment they were in. What we now have is people outside that environment theorising about what took place, or could have took place, or how players probably weren't comfortable but weren't able to say anything....none of which I believe for a second.

And of course, it could be noted that if there was an issue the captain should surely be the person to bring that up with the management team at the time. Instead he sniped about it later, and hasn't chosen to point out that everyone seemed satisfied with the arrangement (if there'd been any murmurings you can bet he'd have written about them!)


You don't know that to be the case yet your saying others are theorising, surely you're just doing the same. I doubt very much that 30 odd twentysomethings in any Gaelic football squad are practicing Catholics and believe in God. Personally I'd be very annoyed in that was asked of me in a team setting and I think many younger players/fringe players etc. would feel they may not be able to raise their concerns. Harte is in a position of Tyrone GAA authority and a religious man himself, he shouldn't have mixed them together. It was totally out of order IMO.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: southtyronegael on September 14, 2018, 12:40:23 PM
Anyone who knows harte, knows how he operates. Toe the line or your out. How do we know that the likes of talented footballers like Darren Mc curry or Kyle Coney and the likes haven't left the panel because of this forced religion?
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on September 14, 2018, 12:47:26 PM
I know EG is simply trying to attack the GAA, as is his way, but I agree that there should be no group forced religion brought into the squad set up. 20 years ago it may have been acceptable,  plenty of team masses when I was playing and never an eye lid batted. In fact they became part of the routine and as a player routine is everything so it was important to retain it. However, we could have opted out if we wanted to and lads did the odd time and the management didn’t make an issue.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: trailer on September 14, 2018, 01:04:15 PM
Everyone on the panel is Catholic. People are away with the fairies, as far as this is concerned. If they don't want to be Catholic and say prayers they are allowed to have that choice. Not one Tyrone player past or present has said anything against this.
It is not a cult. If people want to be Catholics part of that is praying, First Communion, Confirmation likewise.
What's the next outrage? Tyrone development squad all forced to make their confirmation. People need to get some perspective on this. They're not reading Mein Kampf for God's sake. They're saying prayers. And the last time I checked you're still allowed to do this.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Jinxy on September 14, 2018, 01:19:24 PM
We used to sacrifice a goat before games.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Rossfan on September 14, 2018, 01:24:30 PM
Do Linfield and other 6 Cos Soccer teams commemorate the British armed forces every November?
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Give and Go on September 14, 2018, 01:25:24 PM
While we go into meltdown over prayers in Tyrone, not an eyelid is batted at the close link between American Football and 'Church'. Religion is a huge part of football in US, huge teams from many faith backgrounds participate in prayer before games... I've been to some games there and its a common sight to see individual players kneel and pray before games and its done collectively in the locker rooms.
You can say it has no relevance here but it is interesting that it happens and there does not seem to be any outrage over it.
We are getting too excited. I don't believe Mickey forced his beliefs on anyone and all willingly participated.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Boycey on September 14, 2018, 01:28:40 PM
Everyone on the panel is Catholic. People are away with the fairies, as far as this is concerned. If they don't want to be Catholic and say prayers they are allowed to have that choice. Not one Tyrone player past or present has said anything against this.
It is not a cult. If people want to be Catholics part of that is praying, First Communion, Confirmation likewise.
What's the next outrage? Tyrone development squad all forced to make their confirmation. People need to get some perspective on this. They're not reading Mein Kampf for God's sake. They're saying prayers. And the last time I checked you're still allowed to do this.

Practising Catholics? or more likely born into a Catholic family/background but couldn't really give a shite now like most of us... Faith is a personal thing and should be kept as such.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 14, 2018, 01:46:05 PM
Everyone on the panel is Catholic. People are away with the fairies, as far as this is concerned. If they don't want to be Catholic and say prayers they are allowed to have that choice. Not one Tyrone player past or present has said anything against this.
It is not a cult. If people want to be Catholics part of that is praying, First Communion, Confirmation likewise.
What's the next outrage? Tyrone development squad all forced to make their confirmation. People need to get some perspective on this. They're not reading Mein Kampf for God's sake. They're saying prayers. And the last time I checked you're still allowed to do this.

No, they aren't.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: haranguerer on September 14, 2018, 01:58:50 PM
I know this was nothing new, but the stuff on Mass and the Rosary for me is something that the Tyrone CB should be looking very strongly at.  Totally inappropriate given the message it sends out to those with other faiths and none, that have an interest in playing Gaelic Football.
Noticed an reference to this elsewhere, so took a quick look to see what the reaction was on this forum.

Frankly, I'm shocked - though not surprised - that this particular aspect of Cavanagh's book doesn't merit a thread of its own (or at least some comment from more than one or two individuals).

I mean, is no-one else astonished, even outraged, that a team manager could get away with imposing his personal religious leanings on an entire team, to the exclusion of those who may feel differently?

i read a lot of stuff about sledging and foul play etc, but there is at least some possible redress (referee) or comeback (retaliation) to those things, but what can someone on the Tyrone panel who doesn't agree say or do to this? Speak out and never play for the county again?

And all that's BEFORE you get to the context of sport and society in  NI.

Could you imagine the shitstorm if eg the Linfield manager required his players eg to take part in some sort of Orange Order parade, or British armed forces commemoration, or attend a Free Presbyterian service?

It would be roundly and publicly condemned, with the governing body clamping down immediately, and QUITE RIGHTLY too, imo. In fact, it's unthinkable. (And I say that as someone who pretty much despises Linfield, btw).

"GAA For All (Protestants need not apply)"

Those aren't accurate comparisons - I'd say an accurate comparison would be attending a church service, and the comparisons you've chosen are telling about you, but your general point is valid. (On a slight tangent though, weren't Irish league players forced to take part in a ceremony and have an anthem they don't recognise as theirs played as though it were recently??)

I don't see it as a big imposition at all, but nonetheless everyone should have their own free choice - I haven't seen any evidence yet that they didn't. If anyone went to MH and said, I'm not comfortable, do you really think they would have suffered repercussions re selection? I doubt it very much. It would seem noone involved had an issue (Unlike the Irish league example I mentioned earlier actually).

The majority of Irish catholics are brought up with the ritual of mass, when they have their own free choice they'll all attend weddings, funerals, mass at easter/christmas, for whatever reason. A mass before games in this context isn't a big deal. Irish catholicism isn't taken that seriously, its just a routine for many, and I think thats the context it needs to be taken in. its not forcing your religious views onto others, as it is being portrayed.

I think you missed the point there.
Most Irish catholics wouldn't have a major problem with it. But What about somebody who isn't catholic? It's a pretty big deal to anyone of any other religion (or no religion).  It could certainly be viewed as 'forcing' your catholic views onto non catholics.
Obviously, we don't know how much 'forcing' was done, but all managers want players to do things as a team. Therefore it's likely that everyone was strongly encouraged to go as a team!

I'm not missing the point. The players were all from a catholic background. The hypothetical situation you describe didn't occur. If it had, I'm sure it would have been dealt with in the proper manner. MH would of course have been aware of the situation and adjusted accordingly. He is there to build bonds and win matches, not convert people to catholicism.

At the end of the day, this was something willingly partaken in by a group of people comfortable with the environment they were in. What we now have is people outside that environment theorising about what took place, or could have took place, or how players probably weren't comfortable but weren't able to say anything....none of which I believe for a second.

And of course, it could be noted that if there was an issue the captain should surely be the person to bring that up with the management team at the time. Instead he sniped about it later, and hasn't chosen to point out that everyone seemed satisfied with the arrangement (if there'd been any murmurings you can bet he'd have written about them!)


You don't know that to be the case yet your saying others are theorising, surely you're just doing the same. I doubt very much that 30 odd twentysomethings in any Gaelic football squad are practicing Catholics and believe in God. Personally I'd be very annoyed in that was asked of me in a team setting and I think many younger players/fringe players etc. would feel they may not be able to raise their concerns. Harte is in a position of Tyrone GAA authority and a religious man himself, he shouldn't have mixed them together. It was totally out of order IMO.

There hasn't been the slightest murmurings of complaint from those who have ever partaken. Many of these have also left the panel now, so aren't restricted by the fear of MH that some posters would have you believe. So in the absence of a shred of evidence to the contrary, despite ample resources and time for such to be found, I think I'm entitled to form the opinion noone had an issue with it.

I agree completely that they are all very unlikey to be practicing catholics - the point the rest of the post made is that, when brought up as a catholic, you still partake in rituals when it suits - weddings, funerals, christmas, easter - without it costing you a thought. I think the same relevance should be placed on this ritual (i.e. not that much). 
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: haranguerer on September 14, 2018, 02:01:23 PM
Anyone who knows harte, knows how he operates. Toe the line or your out. How do we know that the likes of talented footballers like Darren Mc curry or Kyle Coney and the likes haven't left the panel because of this forced religion?

What a strange way for a manager to operate  ::)

Why don't you ask Kyle why he's no longer there?
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/i-relied-solely-on-my-talent-that-was-my-downfall-how-the-future-of-tyrone-football-let-his-senior-chance-slip-37264330.html
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: tiempo on September 14, 2018, 02:05:30 PM
Are the wider backroom team also attending these masses and prayer sessions and by implication are they all Catholic too? Is Mickey fronting a sectarian cabal here, no Prods welcome? Or a multi-denominational cabal? Or a trans faith-agnostic cabal? As for his nepotism it's probably off topic.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Christmas Lights on September 14, 2018, 02:27:55 PM
Mickey Harte is the man.
This thread proves it.
A thread dedicated to Sean Cavanagh has now descended into a Mickey Harte & prayers thread  8)

#Hartein
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on September 14, 2018, 02:30:32 PM
Good point. If Sean reads this he'll be livid lol
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: APM on September 14, 2018, 02:32:27 PM
I know this was nothing new, but the stuff on Mass and the Rosary for me is something that the Tyrone CB should be looking very strongly at.  Totally inappropriate given the message it sends out to those with other faiths and none, that have an interest in playing Gaelic Football.
Noticed an reference to this elsewhere, so took a quick look to see what the reaction was on this forum.

Frankly, I'm shocked - though not surprised - that this particular aspect of Cavanagh's book doesn't merit a thread of its own (or at least some comment from more than one or two individuals).

I mean, is no-one else astonished, even outraged, that a team manager could get away with imposing his personal religious leanings on an entire team, to the exclusion of those who may feel differently?

i read a lot of stuff about sledging and foul play etc, but there is at least some possible redress (referee) or comeback (retaliation) to those things, but what can someone on the Tyrone panel who doesn't agree say or do to this? Speak out and never play for the county again?

And all that's BEFORE you get to the context of sport and society in  NI.

Could you imagine the shitstorm if eg the Linfield manager required his players eg to take part in some sort of Orange Order parade, or British armed forces commemoration, or attend a Free Presbyterian service?

It would be roundly and publicly condemned, with the governing body clamping down immediately, and QUITE RIGHTLY too, imo. In fact, it's unthinkable. (And I say that as someone who pretty much despises Linfield, btw).

"GAA For All (Protestants need not apply)"

Those aren't accurate comparisons - I'd say an accurate comparison would be attending a church service, and the comparisons you've chosen are telling about you, but your general point is valid. (On a slight tangent though, weren't Irish league players forced to take part in a ceremony and have an anthem they don't recognise as theirs played as though it were recently??)

I don't see it as a big imposition at all, but nonetheless everyone should have their own free choice - I haven't seen any evidence yet that they didn't. If anyone went to MH and said, I'm not comfortable, do you really think they would have suffered repercussions re selection? I doubt it very much. It would seem noone involved had an issue (Unlike the Irish league example I mentioned earlier actually).

The majority of Irish catholics are brought up with the ritual of mass, when they have their own free choice they'll all attend weddings, funerals, mass at easter/christmas, for whatever reason. A mass before games in this context isn't a big deal. Irish catholicism isn't taken that seriously, its just a routine for many, and I think thats the context it needs to be taken in. its not forcing your religious views onto others, as it is being portrayed.

I think you missed the point there.
Most Irish catholics wouldn't have a major problem with it. But What about somebody who isn't catholic? It's a pretty big deal to anyone of any other religion (or no religion).  It could certainly be viewed as 'forcing' your catholic views onto non catholics.
Obviously, we don't know how much 'forcing' was done, but all managers want players to do things as a team. Therefore it's likely that everyone was strongly encouraged to go as a team!

I'm not missing the point. The players were all from a catholic background. The hypothetical situation you describe didn't occur. If it had, I'm sure it would have been dealt with in the proper manner. MH would of course have been aware of the situation and adjusted accordingly. He is there to build bonds and win matches, not convert people to catholicism.

At the end of the day, this was something willingly partaken in by a group of people comfortable with the environment they were in. What we now have is people outside that environment theorising about what took place, or could have took place, or how players probably weren't comfortable but weren't able to say anything....none of which I believe for a second.

And of course, it could be noted that if there was an issue the captain should surely be the person to bring that up with the management team at the time. Instead he sniped about it later, and hasn't chosen to point out that everyone seemed satisfied with the arrangement (if there'd been any murmurings you can bet he'd have written about them!)


You don't know that to be the case yet your saying others are theorising, surely you're just doing the same. I doubt very much that 30 odd twentysomethings in any Gaelic football squad are practicing Catholics and believe in God. Personally I'd be very annoyed in that was asked of me in a team setting and I think many younger players/fringe players etc. would feel they may not be able to raise their concerns. Harte is in a position of Tyrone GAA authority and a religious man himself, he shouldn't have mixed them together. It was totally out of order IMO.

There hasn't been the slightest murmurings of complaint from those who have ever partaken. Many of these have also left the panel now, so aren't restricted by the fear of MH that some posters would have you believe. So in the absence of a shred of evidence to the contrary, despite ample resources and time for such to be found, I think I'm entitled to form the opinion noone had an issue with it.

I agree completely that they are all very unlikey to be practicing catholics - the point the rest of the post made is that, when brought up as a catholic, you still partake in rituals when it suits - weddings, funerals, christmas, easter - without it costing you a thought. I think the same relevance should be placed on this ritual (i.e. not that much). 

I'm not worried about the fellas that went along with this and didn't complain - that's just good fortune.  I'm worried about the fact that this sends out a message, that the GAA is an exclusively catholic organisation, which it is most certainly not and nor do we want it to be perceived as such.  When we have a small cohort of protestant (and other faiths) playing for club and county, it is particularly important that we do not allow this kind of image to take hold.

Evil Genius is correct when he asks us to imagine our reaction if, for example, a soccer club in Dungannon held a prayer service before games led by an evangelical pastor.  I think most GAA peoples reaction to that would be "we wouldn't be welcome there".

To be honest, if people cannot see that, then I have serious doubts about how we can build a new Ireland without making the same mistakes that the unionist leaders made throughout the history of NI. 

I suspect that Mickey Harte is very strong in his religious beliefs and would be an exception in the world of GAA managers. I don't think we have a serious problem in the respect that there are few managers who would want to entertain, much less implement these types of practices.  But our reaction to it is very telling and I think we ought to open our minds to the fact that in the nine counties of Ulster, we will need to work hard at making the GAA appear to be welcome to all faiths and none. 

These practices and the acceptance / toleration of this both on this forum, in Tyrone and in the GAA in general, could be seen as a form of institutional bias which we should be working very hard to stamp out. 

Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: APM on September 14, 2018, 02:43:02 PM
I know EG is simply trying to attack the GAA, as is his way, but I agree that there should be no group forced religion brought into the squad set up. 20 years ago it may have been acceptable,  plenty of team masses when I was playing and never an eye lid batted. In fact they became part of the routine and as a player routine is everything so it was important to retain it. However, we could have opted out if we wanted to and lads did the odd time and the management didn’t make an issue.

BCB, I would agree that it was probably acceptable 20 years ago, and couldn't see how it could be tolerated today.  The mad thing is that I would be a weekly mass-goer, but if I was playing football for a "holy joe" manager and he made us go to mass before the games, I would really resent it.  But at a wider level, I think accepting this kind of behaviour leaves the GAA wide-open to allegations of being an institution that is only for catholics and when players for the "second best" team in Ireland are given rosary beads when they join the panel and are required to attend mass before games, it bloody difficult to argue with. 
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: trailer on September 14, 2018, 02:50:05 PM
Anyone who knows harte, knows how he operates. Toe the line or your out. How do we know that the likes of talented footballers like Darren Mc curry or Kyle Coney and the likes haven't left the panel because of this forced religion?

What a strange way for a manager to operate  ::)

Why don't you ask Kyle why he's no longer there?
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/i-relied-solely-on-my-talent-that-was-my-downfall-how-the-future-of-tyrone-football-let-his-senior-chance-slip-37264330.html

STG wants there to be a democracy where the players get a vote on who starts in which position. Where everyone has a say and the entire population of Tyrone gets to pick the panel. Delusional doesn't do it justice....
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: trileacman on September 14, 2018, 02:50:24 PM
Evil Genius is looking for a rod to beat the gaa with so I’d be dubious about his sincerity in relation to this. His comparisons to the OO and army commeneraetion are unfair as those are defined as more political beliefs than religious ones.

There are clear examples of incidents like this is both rugby and soccer. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/news-analysis/praying-and-playing-for-god-and-ulster-28864429.html (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/news-analysis/praying-and-playing-for-god-and-ulster-28864429.html)
So EG would do well to retract his “unthinkable” quote, not only is it thinkable it happens clearly in rugby at the highest level in Ulster.

If there’s evidence that this was forced on players please provide it. No-one in the squad or a previous member of it has said Hartes Christianity was forced upon them to my recollection. So if the Tyrone panel want to attend mass before a game who to force them to stop? What does that say about your tolerance and acceptance of others?
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: trileacman on September 14, 2018, 02:52:35 PM
I know EG is simply trying to attack the GAA, as is his way, but I agree that there should be no group forced religion brought into the squad set up. 20 years ago it may have been acceptable,  plenty of team masses when I was playing and never an eye lid batted. In fact they became part of the routine and as a player routine is everything so it was important to retain it. However, we could have opted out if we wanted to and lads did the odd time and the management didn’t make an issue.

BCB, I would agree that it was probably acceptable 20 years ago, and couldn't see how it could be tolerated today.  The mad thing is that I would be a weekly mass-goer, but if I was playing football for a "holy joe" manager and he made us go to mass before the games, I would really resent it.  But at a wider level, I think accepting this kind of behaviour leaves the GAA wide-open to allegations of being an institution that is only for catholics and when players for the "second best" team in Ireland are given rosary beads when they join the panel and are required to attend mass before games, it bloody difficult to argue with.

Have you any evidence at all that players were “required to attend mass before games” or that a holy joe manager “made them go to mass before the games”?
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Itchy on September 14, 2018, 02:57:19 PM
While we go into meltdown over prayers in Tyrone, not an eyelid is batted at the close link between American Football and 'Church'. Religion is a huge part of football in US, huge teams from many faith backgrounds participate in prayer before games... I've been to some games there and its a common sight to see individual players kneel and pray before games and its done collectively in the locker rooms.
You can say it has no relevance here but it is interesting that it happens and there does not seem to be any outrage over it.
We are getting too excited. I don't believe Mickey forced his beliefs on anyone and all willingly participated.

Sure who gives a f**k about what the yanks get up to. I couldnt care less what they do or what muslim rituals take place at table tennis in India. GAA is our remit.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Itchy on September 14, 2018, 02:58:14 PM
I know this was nothing new, but the stuff on Mass and the Rosary for me is something that the Tyrone CB should be looking very strongly at.  Totally inappropriate given the message it sends out to those with other faiths and none, that have an interest in playing Gaelic Football.
Noticed an reference to this elsewhere, so took a quick look to see what the reaction was on this forum.

Frankly, I'm shocked - though not surprised - that this particular aspect of Cavanagh's book doesn't merit a thread of its own (or at least some comment from more than one or two individuals).

I mean, is no-one else astonished, even outraged, that a team manager could get away with imposing his personal religious leanings on an entire team, to the exclusion of those who may feel differently?

i read a lot of stuff about sledging and foul play etc, but there is at least some possible redress (referee) or comeback (retaliation) to those things, but what can someone on the Tyrone panel who doesn't agree say or do to this? Speak out and never play for the county again?

And all that's BEFORE you get to the context of sport and society in  NI.

Could you imagine the shitstorm if eg the Linfield manager required his players eg to take part in some sort of Orange Order parade, or British armed forces commemoration, or attend a Free Presbyterian service?

It would be roundly and publicly condemned, with the governing body clamping down immediately, and QUITE RIGHTLY too, imo. In fact, it's unthinkable. (And I say that as someone who pretty much despises Linfield, btw).

"GAA For All (Protestants need not apply)"

I don't think your comparisons to OO are correct. But in general your point is. Harte should not be forcing his players to attend mass or say the Rosary or anything like that. But Harte is a bully and unfortunately a successful Bully which means his methods are beyond question from many in Tyrone. Do Tyrone have any protestants playing for them? Probably unlikely they will if this is what is going on. I think Ulster GAA or national GAA should put some sort of ban or at least a statement out saying this is not acceptable.

Not that a post as ridiculous as yours deserves any acknowledgement, but perhaps worth point out again - there has been no suggestion from any informed sources that Harte was forcing his players to attend mass.

I always know I am on the right track when the likes of you starts gets excited about my post!
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Itchy on September 14, 2018, 03:01:19 PM
I know this was nothing new, but the stuff on Mass and the Rosary for me is something that the Tyrone CB should be looking very strongly at.  Totally inappropriate given the message it sends out to those with other faiths and none, that have an interest in playing Gaelic Football.
Noticed an reference to this elsewhere, so took a quick look to see what the reaction was on this forum.

Frankly, I'm shocked - though not surprised - that this particular aspect of Cavanagh's book doesn't merit a thread of its own (or at least some comment from more than one or two individuals).

I mean, is no-one else astonished, even outraged, that a team manager could get away with imposing his personal religious leanings on an entire team, to the exclusion of those who may feel differently?

i read a lot of stuff about sledging and foul play etc, but there is at least some possible redress (referee) or comeback (retaliation) to those things, but what can someone on the Tyrone panel who doesn't agree say or do to this? Speak out and never play for the county again?

And all that's BEFORE you get to the context of sport and society in  NI.

Could you imagine the shitstorm if eg the Linfield manager required his players eg to take part in some sort of Orange Order parade, or British armed forces commemoration, or attend a Free Presbyterian service?

It would be roundly and publicly condemned, with the governing body clamping down immediately, and QUITE RIGHTLY too, imo. In fact, it's unthinkable. (And I say that as someone who pretty much despises Linfield, btw).

"GAA For All (Protestants need not apply)"

Those aren't accurate comparisons - I'd say an accurate comparison would be attending a church service, and the comparisons you've chosen are telling about you, but your general point is valid. (On a slight tangent though, weren't Irish league players forced to take part in a ceremony and have an anthem they don't recognise as theirs played as though it were recently??)

I don't see it as a big imposition at all, but nonetheless everyone should have their own free choice - I haven't seen any evidence yet that they didn't. If anyone went to MH and said, I'm not comfortable, do you really think they would have suffered repercussions re selection? I doubt it very much. It would seem noone involved had an issue (Unlike the Irish league example I mentioned earlier actually).

The majority of Irish catholics are brought up with the ritual of mass, when they have their own free choice they'll all attend weddings, funerals, mass at easter/christmas, for whatever reason. A mass before games in this context isn't a big deal. Irish catholicism isn't taken that seriously, its just a routine for many, and I think thats the context it needs to be taken in. its not forcing your religious views onto others, as it is being portrayed.

I think you missed the point there.
Most Irish catholics wouldn't have a major problem with it. But What about somebody who isn't catholic? It's a pretty big deal to anyone of any other religion (or no religion).  It could certainly be viewed as 'forcing' your catholic views onto non catholics.
Obviously, we don't know how much 'forcing' was done, but all managers want players to do things as a team. Therefore it's likely that everyone was strongly encouraged to go as a team!

I'm not missing the point. The players were all from a catholic background. The hypothetical situation you describe didn't occur. If it had, I'm sure it would have been dealt with in the proper manner. MH would of course have been aware of the situation and adjusted accordingly. He is there to build bonds and win matches, not convert people to catholicism.

At the end of the day, this was something willingly partaken in by a group of people comfortable with the environment they were in. What we now have is people outside that environment theorising about what took place, or could have took place, or how players probably weren't comfortable but weren't able to say anything....none of which I believe for a second.

And of course, it could be noted that if there was an issue the captain should surely be the person to bring that up with the management team at the time. Instead he sniped about it later, and hasn't chosen to point out that everyone seemed satisfied with the arrangement (if there'd been any murmurings you can bet he'd have written about them!)


You don't know that to be the case yet your saying others are theorising, surely you're just doing the same. I doubt very much that 30 odd twentysomethings in any Gaelic football squad are practicing Catholics and believe in God. Personally I'd be very annoyed in that was asked of me in a team setting and I think many younger players/fringe players etc. would feel they may not be able to raise their concerns. Harte is in a position of Tyrone GAA authority and a religious man himself, he shouldn't have mixed them together. It was totally out of order IMO.

There hasn't been the slightest murmurings of complaint from those who have ever partaken. Many of these have also left the panel now, so aren't restricted by the fear of MH that some posters would have you believe. So in the absence of a shred of evidence to the contrary, despite ample resources and time for such to be found, I think I'm entitled to form the opinion noone had an issue with it.

I agree completely that they are all very unlikey to be practicing catholics - the point the rest of the post made is that, when brought up as a catholic, you still partake in rituals when it suits - weddings, funerals, christmas, easter - without it costing you a thought. I think the same relevance should be placed on this ritual (i.e. not that much). 

I'm not worried about the fellas that went along with this and didn't complain - that's just good fortune.  I'm worried about the fact that this sends out a message, that the GAA is an exclusively catholic organisation, which it is most certainly not and nor do we want it to be perceived as such.  When we have a small cohort of protestant (and other faiths) playing for club and county, it is particularly important that we do not allow this kind of image to take hold.

Evil Genius is correct when he asks us to imagine our reaction if, for example, a soccer club in Dungannon held a prayer service before games led by an evangelical pastor.  I think most GAA peoples reaction to that would be "we wouldn't be welcome there".

To be honest, if people cannot see that, then I have serious doubts about how we can build a new Ireland without making the same mistakes that the unionist leaders made throughout the history of NI. 

I suspect that Mickey Harte is very strong in his religious beliefs and would be an exception in the world of GAA managers. I don't think we have a serious problem in the respect that there are few managers who would want to entertain, much less implement these types of practices.  But our reaction to it is very telling and I think we ought to open our minds to the fact that in the nine counties of Ulster, we will need to work hard at making the GAA appear to be welcome to all faiths and none. 

These practices and the acceptance / toleration of this both on this forum, in Tyrone and in the GAA in general, could be seen as a form of institutional bias which we should be working very hard to stamp out.

Great post. I am afraid some of the Tyronies just cannot take any criticism of their God manager Mickey Harte. Just cos EG said it doesnt make it incorrect.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: APM on September 14, 2018, 03:08:18 PM
I know EG is simply trying to attack the GAA, as is his way, but I agree that there should be no group forced religion brought into the squad set up. 20 years ago it may have been acceptable,  plenty of team masses when I was playing and never an eye lid batted. In fact they became part of the routine and as a player routine is everything so it was important to retain it. However, we could have opted out if we wanted to and lads did the odd time and the management didn’t make an issue.

BCB, I would agree that it was probably acceptable 20 years ago, and couldn't see how it could be tolerated today.  The mad thing is that I would be a weekly mass-goer, but if I was playing football for a "holy joe" manager and he made us go to mass before the games, I would really resent it.  But at a wider level, I think accepting this kind of behaviour leaves the GAA wide-open to allegations of being an institution that is only for catholics and when players for the "second best" team in Ireland are given rosary beads when they join the panel and are required to attend mass before games, it bloody difficult to argue with.

Have you any evidence at all that players were “required to attend mass before games” or that a holy joe manager “made them go to mass before the games”?

No! Forget about that - it's been done to death!

Talk to me about these reports from Cavanagh and others creating the perception of us being an institutionally and exclusively catholic organisation.  A cold house for other faiths. 
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: BennyCake on September 14, 2018, 03:16:13 PM
I know this was nothing new, but the stuff on Mass and the Rosary for me is something that the Tyrone CB should be looking very strongly at.  Totally inappropriate given the message it sends out to those with other faiths and none, that have an interest in playing Gaelic Football.
Noticed an reference to this elsewhere, so took a quick look to see what the reaction was on this forum.

Frankly, I'm shocked - though not surprised - that this particular aspect of Cavanagh's book doesn't merit a thread of its own (or at least some comment from more than one or two individuals).

I mean, is no-one else astonished, even outraged, that a team manager could get away with imposing his personal religious leanings on an entire team, to the exclusion of those who may feel differently?

i read a lot of stuff about sledging and foul play etc, but there is at least some possible redress (referee) or comeback (retaliation) to those things, but what can someone on the Tyrone panel who doesn't agree say or do to this? Speak out and never play for the county again?

And all that's BEFORE you get to the context of sport and society in  NI.

Could you imagine the shitstorm if eg the Linfield manager required his players eg to take part in some sort of Orange Order parade, or British armed forces commemoration, or attend a Free Presbyterian service?

It would be roundly and publicly condemned, with the governing body clamping down immediately, and QUITE RIGHTLY too, imo. In fact, it's unthinkable. (And I say that as someone who pretty much despises Linfield, btw).

"GAA For All (Protestants need not apply)"

I don't think your comparisons to OO are correct. But in general your point is. Harte should not be forcing his players to attend mass or say the Rosary or anything like that. But Harte is a bully and unfortunately a successful Bully which means his methods are beyond question from many in Tyrone. Do Tyrone have any protestants playing for them? Probably unlikely they will if this is what is going on. I think Ulster GAA or national GAA should put some sort of ban or at least a statement out saying this is not acceptable.

That was my thinking. If a promising Protestant player was called up for Tyrone, would he be put off by hearing about the rosary thing? I suspect he might be. And who would blame him?
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: APM on September 14, 2018, 03:20:16 PM
I know this was nothing new, but the stuff on Mass and the Rosary for me is something that the Tyrone CB should be looking very strongly at.  Totally inappropriate given the message it sends out to those with other faiths and none, that have an interest in playing Gaelic Football.
Noticed an reference to this elsewhere, so took a quick look to see what the reaction was on this forum.

Frankly, I'm shocked - though not surprised - that this particular aspect of Cavanagh's book doesn't merit a thread of its own (or at least some comment from more than one or two individuals).

I mean, is no-one else astonished, even outraged, that a team manager could get away with imposing his personal religious leanings on an entire team, to the exclusion of those who may feel differently?

i read a lot of stuff about sledging and foul play etc, but there is at least some possible redress (referee) or comeback (retaliation) to those things, but what can someone on the Tyrone panel who doesn't agree say or do to this? Speak out and never play for the county again?

And all that's BEFORE you get to the context of sport and society in  NI.

Could you imagine the shitstorm if eg the Linfield manager required his players eg to take part in some sort of Orange Order parade, or British armed forces commemoration, or attend a Free Presbyterian service?

It would be roundly and publicly condemned, with the governing body clamping down immediately, and QUITE RIGHTLY too, imo. In fact, it's unthinkable. (And I say that as someone who pretty much despises Linfield, btw).

"GAA For All (Protestants need not apply)"

I don't think your comparisons to OO are correct. But in general your point is. Harte should not be forcing his players to attend mass or say the Rosary or anything like that. But Harte is a bully and unfortunately a successful Bully which means his methods are beyond question from many in Tyrone. Do Tyrone have any protestants playing for them? Probably unlikely they will if this is what is going on. I think Ulster GAA or national GAA should put some sort of ban or at least a statement out saying this is not acceptable.

That was my thinking. If a promising Protestant player was called up for Tyrone, would he be put off by hearing about the rosary thing? I suspect he might be. And who would blame him?

That's it Benny - but its not just Tyrone that would be affected.  It is the whole of the GAA in Ulster that derives this image from Harte's actions. 
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: BennyCake on September 14, 2018, 03:27:51 PM
I know this was nothing new, but the stuff on Mass and the Rosary for me is something that the Tyrone CB should be looking very strongly at.  Totally inappropriate given the message it sends out to those with other faiths and none, that have an interest in playing Gaelic Football.
Noticed an reference to this elsewhere, so took a quick look to see what the reaction was on this forum.

Frankly, I'm shocked - though not surprised - that this particular aspect of Cavanagh's book doesn't merit a thread of its own (or at least some comment from more than one or two individuals).

I mean, is no-one else astonished, even outraged, that a team manager could get away with imposing his personal religious leanings on an entire team, to the exclusion of those who may feel differently?

i read a lot of stuff about sledging and foul play etc, but there is at least some possible redress (referee) or comeback (retaliation) to those things, but what can someone on the Tyrone panel who doesn't agree say or do to this? Speak out and never play for the county again?

And all that's BEFORE you get to the context of sport and society in  NI.

Could you imagine the shitstorm if eg the Linfield manager required his players eg to take part in some sort of Orange Order parade, or British armed forces commemoration, or attend a Free Presbyterian service?

It would be roundly and publicly condemned, with the governing body clamping down immediately, and QUITE RIGHTLY too, imo. In fact, it's unthinkable. (And I say that as someone who pretty much despises Linfield, btw).

"GAA For All (Protestants need not apply)"

I don't think your comparisons to OO are correct. But in general your point is. Harte should not be forcing his players to attend mass or say the Rosary or anything like that. But Harte is a bully and unfortunately a successful Bully which means his methods are beyond question from many in Tyrone. Do Tyrone have any protestants playing for them? Probably unlikely they will if this is what is going on. I think Ulster GAA or national GAA should put some sort of ban or at least a statement out saying this is not acceptable.

That was my thinking. If a promising Protestant player was called up for Tyrone, would he be put off by hearing about the rosary thing? I suspect he might be. And who would blame him?

That's it Benny - but its not just Tyrone that would be affected.  It is the whole of the GAA in Ulster that derives this image from Harte's actions.

Yes I agree. This can do as much harm to the GAA image, as a Protestant player getting sectarian abuse on the field.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: haranguerer on September 14, 2018, 03:28:47 PM
This is rubbish.

Do you really think Mickey Harte, or indeed any top manager, has got to where they are without being aware of the personalities and their backgrounds in their panels? Do you think that Mickey Harte is making a concerted effort to get his panel to mass, and that he'd make the same effort to apparently convert a non-catholic? It is a pre-game ritual that works for the members of that panel. If the make-up of the panel was such that it wouldn't work, I've no doubt Mickey would identify that and alter it. His job, and one he is keenly aware of, is to win football matches.

Fact of the matter is, you all seem to be taking mass a lot more seriously than anyone I know who attends.

I also find it interesting that it is the mass the focus is on. If actually interested in the Tyrone panels inclusiveness, there are other more controversial examples - the only issue of course, is that Mickey Harte couldn't be made the target for those.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: APM on September 14, 2018, 03:34:34 PM
This is rubbish.

Do you really think Mickey Harte, or indeed any top manager, has got to where they are without being aware of the personalities and their backgrounds in their panels? Do you think that Mickey Harte is making a concerted effort to get his panel to mass, and that he'd make the same effort to apparently convert a non-catholic? It is a pre-game ritual that works for the members of that panel. If the make-up of the panel was such that it wouldn't work, I've no doubt Mickey would identify that and alter it. His job, and one he is keenly aware of, is to win football matches.

Fact of the matter is, you all seem to be taking mass a lot more seriously than anyone I know who attends.

I also find it interesting that it is the mass the focus is on. If actually interested in the Tyrone panels inclusiveness, there are other more controversial examples - the only issue of course, is that Mickey Harte couldn't be made the target for those.

You need to open your mind! That's the same kind of argument that was used in institutionally sectarian organisations in Northern Ireland where people simply couldn't see why how there may be an issue with carrying on exclusively protestant or unionist practices. 

To your final point - what are they?
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Jinxy on September 14, 2018, 03:38:39 PM
https://www.thecatholicuniverse.com/gaa-manager-shared-faith-team-says-former-captain-18227 (https://www.thecatholicuniverse.com/gaa-manager-shared-faith-team-says-former-captain-18227)

Sean Cavanagh, a three-time All-Ireland winner with Tyrone, said despite some players not wanting to go to Mass before a big game, no-one objected to their devout Catholic manager’s wishes of attending Mass before every championship game.

While admitting that he thinks religious beliefs should be private, Cavanagh, a practising Catholic, made it clear that he had no problem with Harte sharing his faith with the team and acknowledged that it actually helped bring the team closer together.

“No-one on our team objected to it,” Cavanagh told Irish sports journalist Paul Kimmage in an interview published in The Sunday Independent.

“Did everyone want to go to Mass before big games? No they didn’t, but it maybe suited us at times in that it brought us closer together,” he added. “I’m a practising Catholic so it didn’t bother me but I can see how others might have an issue with it. I think religion is a private thing, I would never push it on anyone.”
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: APM on September 14, 2018, 03:41:07 PM
So they were required to go!!!

Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: haranguerer on September 14, 2018, 04:03:56 PM
Well then he has a lot to answer for as captain, knowing this, but never raising it with the manager.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: lenny on September 14, 2018, 06:27:16 PM
Well then he has a lot to answer for as captain, knowing this, but never raising it with the manager.

He knows he dare not defy the dictator harte or even bring up the issue for someone else. He really does seem to run a regime of fear.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: LooseCannon on September 14, 2018, 06:29:16 PM
Read Harte’s book. RE sectarianism. One of his best friends is a Presbyterian.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: trailer on September 14, 2018, 10:20:26 PM
Well then he has a lot to answer for as captain, knowing this, but never raising it with the manager.

He knows he dare not defy the dictator harte or even bring up the issue for someone else. He really does seem to run a regime of fear.

Who doesn't run a dictatorship? Name one successful manager who doesn't? He's the manager, it's his call. You'd think by talking to you Dublin and the likes run some sort of utopian system where everyone has equal say.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Itchy on September 15, 2018, 01:56:04 PM
Well then he has a lot to answer for as captain, knowing this, but never raising it with the manager.

He knows he dare not defy the dictator harte or even bring up the issue for someone else. He really does seem to run a regime of fear.

Who doesn't run a dictatorship? Name one successful manager who doesn't? He's the manager, it's his call. You'd think by talking to you Dublin and the likes run some sort of utopian system where everyone has equal say.

Lad that's awful rubbish. This effects more than his 1 team, it effect the wider Tyrone, Ulster and GAA. It's unacceptable carry on. If you can't see the long term damage this could do you must be blind. Maybe Tyrone are missing out on a top protestant forward who's heard about Mickey set up and doesn't fancy being the odd one out.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Orchard park on September 15, 2018, 02:17:21 PM
Well then he has a lot to answer for as captain, knowing this, but never raising it with the manager.

He knows he dare not defy the dictator harte or even bring up the issue for someone else. He really does seem to run a regime of fear.

Who doesn't run a dictatorship? Name one successful manager who doesn't? He's the manager, it's his call. You'd think by talking to you Dublin and the likes run some sort of utopian system where everyone has equal say.

Lad that's awful rubbish. This effects more than his 1 team, it effect the wider Tyrone, Ulster and GAA. It's unacceptable carry on. If you can't see the long term damage this could do you must be blind. Maybe Tyrone are missing out on a top protestant forward who's heard about Mickey set up and doesn't fancy being the odd one out.

Well put itchy
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: BennyHarp on September 15, 2018, 03:17:02 PM
Well then he has a lot to answer for as captain, knowing this, but never raising it with the manager.

He knows he dare not defy the dictator harte or even bring up the issue for someone else. He really does seem to run a regime of fear.

Who doesn't run a dictatorship? Name one successful manager who doesn't? He's the manager, it's his call. You'd think by talking to you Dublin and the likes run some sort of utopian system where everyone has equal say.

Lad that's awful rubbish. This effects more than his 1 team, it effect the wider Tyrone, Ulster and GAA. It's unacceptable carry on. If you can't see the long term damage this could do you must be blind. Maybe Tyrone are missing out on a top protestant forward who's heard about Mickey set up and doesn't fancy being the odd one out.

They aren’t.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: trailer on September 15, 2018, 05:44:26 PM
Well then he has a lot to answer for as captain, knowing this, but never raising it with the manager.

He knows he dare not defy the dictator harte or even bring up the issue for someone else. He really does seem to run a regime of fear.

Who doesn't run a dictatorship? Name one successful manager who doesn't? He's the manager, it's his call. You'd think by talking to you Dublin and the likes run some sort of utopian system where everyone has equal say.

Lad that's awful rubbish. This effects more than his 1 team, it effect the wider Tyrone, Ulster and GAA. It's unacceptable carry on. If you can't see the long term damage this could do you must be blind. Maybe Tyrone are missing out on a top protestant forward who's heard about Mickey set up and doesn't fancy being the odd one out.

Ahhy, dead on big lad.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Insane Bolt on September 16, 2018, 12:50:46 PM
Edendork lads not impressed with Sean's book.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Shamrock Shore on September 16, 2018, 01:20:27 PM
Christ. I've just seen the picture. That's shocking  >:(
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on September 16, 2018, 01:51:41 PM
I concur. Jees chamionship fitba brings out the inner gypsy in a lot of boys...
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Jinxy on September 16, 2018, 02:03:26 PM
For those who don't know what this is about...




https://twitter.com/buddygreene/status/1041308488578883589 (https://twitter.com/buddygreene/status/1041308488578883589)
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Rossfan on September 16, 2018, 02:28:28 PM
Done by Meath men no doubt ::)
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Insane Bolt on September 16, 2018, 02:57:34 PM
Apparently it was accidental.....awaiting confirmation from snopes 😜
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: thewobbler on September 16, 2018, 03:15:41 PM
A man gets a serious concussion, a broken nose and maybe a broken jaw, while playing football.

The internet rushes to yell crap jokes about it.

f**k the internet.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: BennyCake on September 16, 2018, 03:30:01 PM
ADRIANNN!!!

Sorry couldn't help it.

Looks a nasty one alright. Them Tyrone boys, eh?
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: tonto1888 on September 16, 2018, 05:25:00 PM
Ewan McKenna wants it reported to the PSNI. GBH he says it was
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: ONeill on September 16, 2018, 05:37:57 PM
A man gets a serious concussion, a broken nose and maybe a broken jaw, while playing football.

The internet rushes to yell crap jokes about it.

f**k the internet.

Serious concussion? A broken jaw?
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Owen Brannigan on September 16, 2018, 06:10:25 PM
For those who don't know what this is about...




https://twitter.com/buddygreene/status/1041308488578883589 (https://twitter.com/buddygreene/status/1041308488578883589)

Edendork played Moy today in the Tyrone senior championship first round
20 yellows -6 reds-1 Black
And Sean Cavanagh transported away to hospital in an ambulance. The man that inflicted the injury did not receive a card of any description

Nothing new here, just another Tyrone club game like this one:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/gaelic-games/45534767 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/gaelic-games/45534767)
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Jinxy on September 16, 2018, 07:07:55 PM
Colm O'Rourke was right.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: BennyCake on September 16, 2018, 07:28:08 PM
And these are the same boys saying rosaries!
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: tbrick18 on September 16, 2018, 08:17:07 PM
Its sensationalised bullshit

Best post on here.
Cavanagh is a self serving, egocentric Micky Harte wannabe.
Plays the poor wee me card looking to portray the sensitivity that gains him a reputation of a nice fella.....all the while publicising a book. Realistically people want to hear what he thinks of Harte and its very hypocritical of him lambasting Harte now when he was his biggest supporter when playing. To me this speaks volumes as to the type of character he is.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: BennyHarp on September 16, 2018, 08:20:05 PM
Those Kerry lads have been at this sort of stuff for years.
https://www.rte.ie/centuryireland/index.php/articles/kerry-county-final-abandoned
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: imtommygunn on September 16, 2018, 08:23:35 PM
Its sensationalised bullshit

Best post on here.
Cavanagh is a self serving, egocentric Micky Harte wannabe.
Plays the poor wee me card looking to portray the sensitivity that gains him a reputation of a nice fella.....all the while publicising a book. Realistically people want to hear what he thinks of Harte and its very hypocritical of him lambasting Harte now when he was his biggest supporter when playing. To me this speaks volumes as to the type of character he is.

Very hard to disagree with that.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Wildweasel74 on September 16, 2018, 08:36:26 PM
Nice to see how Tyrone treats its heroes!!!! In all honesty he's very lucky not to lose an eye judging by the bad cut less than 1/2inch from his eye
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: trileacman on September 16, 2018, 08:36:50 PM
Edendork have being playing hatchet ball all year. Instigated a mass brawl 7 days ago when Trillick played them. One of our players had to get a couple of stiches, it’s par for the course for them.

I’d wondered where it all stemmed from then I heard who managed them. This behaviour is par for the course for Barton, spent the best half of his Derry managerial career jumping into brawls his team instigated.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Smokin Joe on September 16, 2018, 08:39:11 PM
Apparently he fell to the ground and when he was on the ground an opposition player "dropped the 2 knees" on him.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Wildweasel74 on September 16, 2018, 08:44:16 PM
Well is that not a automatic red card??
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: BennyCake on September 16, 2018, 08:44:32 PM
Apparently he fell to the ground and when he was on the ground an opposition player "dropped the 2 knees" on him.

Ahh, he learned from the master.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Jinxy on September 16, 2018, 08:47:32 PM
Is Sean being targeted because of the book?
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Wildweasel74 on September 16, 2018, 08:49:47 PM
None this shit happened John McDermott, he killed all round him!
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Owen Brannigan on September 16, 2018, 08:51:54 PM

Cavanagh is a self serving, egocentric Micky Harte wannabe.
Plays the poor wee me card looking to portray the sensitivity that gains him a reputation of a nice fella.....all the while publicising a book. Realistically people want to hear what he thinks of Harte and its very hypocritical of him lambasting Harte now when he was his biggest supporter when playing. To me this speaks volumes as to the type of character he is.

+1
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: JoG2 on September 16, 2018, 09:01:48 PM
Edendork have being playing hatchet ball all year. Instigated a mass brawl 7 days ago when Trillick played them. One of our players had to get a couple of stiches, it’s par for the course for them.

I’d wondered where it all stemmed from then I heard who managed them. This behaviour is par for the course for Barton, spent the best half of his Derry managerial career jumping into brawls his team instigated.

Barton's county reign? Surely not. Apart from the McKenna cup game in Armagh, when were these other brawls? Wasn't that McCarron acting the wag kicked that off? Barton made a complete balloon of himself right enough, no question
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: yellowcard on September 16, 2018, 10:24:15 PM
Its sensationalised bullshit

Best post on here.
Cavanagh is a self serving, egocentric Micky Harte wannabe.
Plays the poor wee me card looking to portray the sensitivity that gains him a reputation of a nice fella.....all the while publicising a book. Realistically people want to hear what he thinks of Harte and its very hypocritical of him lambasting Harte now when he was his biggest supporter when playing. To me this speaks volumes as to the type of character he is.

Some of this may be true but it doesn’t excuse the brutality inflicted on Cavanagh. Whatever you think of Cavanagh he was never a dirty player and from what I hear it was definitely not an accident.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: tonto1888 on September 16, 2018, 10:45:17 PM
Its sensationalised bullshit

Best post on here.
Cavanagh is a self serving, egocentric Micky Harte wannabe.
Plays the poor wee me card looking to portray the sensitivity that gains him a reputation of a nice fella.....all the while publicising a book. Realistically people want to hear what he thinks of Harte and its very hypocritical of him lambasting Harte now when he was his biggest supporter when playing. To me this speaks volumes as to the type of character he is.

Some of this may be true but it doesn’t excuse the brutality inflicted on Cavanagh. Whatever you think of Cavanagh he was never a dirty player and from what I hear it was definitely not an accident.

There’s a few reasons going round. I have heard it was an accident and that it wasn’t. Someone said there’s a video, has anyone seen it
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: trileacman on September 16, 2018, 11:05:32 PM
Are all Tyrone games not recorded now and streamed live? Someones bound to have a recording.

I had heard he had went up for a kickout and as he landed he met a shoulder. Again could be bullshit hearsay like 95% of talk on here.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Jinxy on September 16, 2018, 11:19:36 PM
Are all Tyrone games not recorded now and streamed live? Someones bound to have a recording.

I had heard he had went up for a kickout and as he landed he met a shoulder. Again could be bullshit hearsay like 95% of talk on here.

It must have been this shoulder he met.


Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Itchy on September 16, 2018, 11:28:40 PM
He could've got another chapter out of this incident. All the talk about Nicholas Walsh, he wasn't on the field this weekend was he.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: BarryBreensBandage on September 16, 2018, 11:40:15 PM
Regardless of the comments on what or who Cavanagh is, and his autobiography,  this happening on a Gaelic football field is a disgrace.

Is this what we are signing the youth of our communities up for?

Yes, it has been going on for years, but it doesn't make it right.

Times change, and maybe with social media, the dirt in our national game is being outed.

For this to happen to any player is a disgrace, never mind a man who, for me , along with Canavan and Dooher, were the three most important players in Tyrone's 3 AI successes. If it can happen to him, it can happen to any of our children and youth players in the future.

After seeing reports here about other Tyrone matches, and another incident in recent Ballyholland/Downpatrick game, where an 18 yo was hospitalised after getting a boot to the head when he is on the ground - where the f**k are we going folks?

Bad enough having to out up with a poor standard of football than having to read about this stuff.

I am genuinely angry and disillusioned tonight over this. Puke football is the least of our worries.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: tbrick18 on September 17, 2018, 07:34:14 AM
Its sensationalised bullshit

Best post on here.
Cavanagh is a self serving, egocentric Micky Harte wannabe.
Plays the poor wee me card looking to portray the sensitivity that gains him a reputation of a nice fella.....all the while publicising a book. Realistically people want to hear what he thinks of Harte and its very hypocritical of him lambasting Harte now when he was his biggest supporter when playing. To me this speaks volumes as to the type of character he is.

Some of this may be true but it doesn’t excuse the brutality inflicted on Cavanagh. Whatever you think of Cavanagh he was never a dirty player and from what I hear it was definitely not an accident.

Not for a second am I saying that he deserved what happened, I've no idea if it was accidental or deliberate. No place for it on a field if deliberate and I'd hope the culprit would be seriously reprimanded if it was.
My point was he's not the pleasant character he's portraying himself as, and to me this pr campaign he's on is loathsome given how hypocritical he is being. I actually used to like him when he just played football, but from he started his on and off field antics of crying, trying to dupe referees, playing the martyr to the press I lost all respect for him.
To me he comes across as arrogant and seems to have a self righteous complex.

His Sunday game analysis is far from great too.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: LilySavage on September 17, 2018, 08:28:42 AM
It's all Sean's fault. FFS. Thuggery is Thuggery. f**k them out of the Championship if you're serious about cleaning up the game.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: trailer on September 17, 2018, 08:38:50 AM
I was at the game. Cavanagh caught the ball was fouled (by no.9 I think) and fell. No.12 came in and fell on top of him with both knees. I don't know if was an accident or not. Only the player will know. Ref was looking straight at it. Didn't deem it worthy of a card etc. The ref in general had a poor game for both teams.
All Tyrone games are videoed. That will probably come out this week. Whether that sheds any light on the incident is anybodies guess.

Anyway that's exactly what happened.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: nrico2006 on September 17, 2018, 08:55:18 AM
I know this was nothing new, but the stuff on Mass and the Rosary for me is something that the Tyrone CB should be looking very strongly at.  Totally inappropriate given the message it sends out to those with other faiths and none, that have an interest in playing Gaelic Football.
Noticed an reference to this elsewhere, so took a quick look to see what the reaction was on this forum.

Frankly, I'm shocked - though not surprised - that this particular aspect of Cavanagh's book doesn't merit a thread of its own (or at least some comment from more than one or two individuals).

I mean, is no-one else astonished, even outraged, that a team manager could get away with imposing his personal religious leanings on an entire team, to the exclusion of those who may feel differently?

i read a lot of stuff about sledging and foul play etc, but there is at least some possible redress (referee) or comeback (retaliation) to those things, but what can someone on the Tyrone panel who doesn't agree say or do to this? Speak out and never play for the county again?

And all that's BEFORE you get to the context of sport and society in  NI.

Could you imagine the shitstorm if eg the Linfield manager required his players eg to take part in some sort of Orange Order parade, or British armed forces commemoration, or attend a Free Presbyterian service?

It would be roundly and publicly condemned, with the governing body clamping down immediately, and QUITE RIGHTLY too, imo. In fact, it's unthinkable. (And I say that as someone who pretty much despises Linfield, btw).

"GAA For All (Protestants need not apply)"

Those aren't accurate comparisons - I'd say an accurate comparison would be attending a church service, and the comparisons you've chosen are telling about you, but your general point is valid. (On a slight tangent though, weren't Irish league players forced to take part in a ceremony and have an anthem they don't recognise as theirs played as though it were recently??)

I don't see it as a big imposition at all, but nonetheless everyone should have their own free choice - I haven't seen any evidence yet that they didn't. If anyone went to MH and said, I'm not comfortable, do you really think they would have suffered repercussions re selection? I doubt it very much. It would seem noone involved had an issue (Unlike the Irish league example I mentioned earlier actually).

The majority of Irish catholics are brought up with the ritual of mass, when they have their own free choice they'll all attend weddings, funerals, mass at easter/christmas, for whatever reason. A mass before games in this context isn't a big deal. Irish catholicism isn't taken that seriously, its just a routine for many, and I think thats the context it needs to be taken in. its not forcing your religious views onto others, as it is being portrayed.

I think you missed the point there.
Most Irish catholics wouldn't have a major problem with it. But What about somebody who isn't catholic? It's a pretty big deal to anyone of any other religion (or no religion).  It could certainly be viewed as 'forcing' your catholic views onto non catholics.
Obviously, we don't know how much 'forcing' was done, but all managers want players to do things as a team. Therefore it's likely that everyone was strongly encouraged to go as a team!

I'm not missing the point. The players were all from a catholic background. The hypothetical situation you describe didn't occur. If it had, I'm sure it would have been dealt with in the proper manner. MH would of course have been aware of the situation and adjusted accordingly. He is there to build bonds and win matches, not convert people to catholicism.

At the end of the day, this was something willingly partaken in by a group of people comfortable with the environment they were in. What we now have is people outside that environment theorising about what took place, or could have took place, or how players probably weren't comfortable but weren't able to say anything....none of which I believe for a second.

And of course, it could be noted that if there was an issue the captain should surely be the person to bring that up with the management team at the time. Instead he sniped about it later, and hasn't chosen to point out that everyone seemed satisfied with the arrangement (if there'd been any murmurings you can bet he'd have written about them!)


You don't know that to be the case yet your saying others are theorising, surely you're just doing the same. I doubt very much that 30 odd twentysomethings in any Gaelic football squad are practicing Catholics and believe in God. Personally I'd be very annoyed in that was asked of me in a team setting and I think many younger players/fringe players etc. would feel they may not be able to raise their concerns. Harte is in a position of Tyrone GAA authority and a religious man himself, he shouldn't have mixed them together. It was totally out of order IMO.

There hasn't been the slightest murmurings of complaint from those who have ever partaken. Many of these have also left the panel now, so aren't restricted by the fear of MH that some posters would have you believe. So in the absence of a shred of evidence to the contrary, despite ample resources and time for such to be found, I think I'm entitled to form the opinion noone had an issue with it.

I agree completely that they are all very unlikey to be practicing catholics - the point the rest of the post made is that, when brought up as a catholic, you still partake in rituals when it suits - weddings, funerals, christmas, easter - without it costing you a thought. I think the same relevance should be placed on this ritual (i.e. not that much).

Good post which is very accurate.  Additionally, I doubt there are many top protestant forwards in Tyrone that we are missing out on.  I would be interested to see how many protestants are actually playing club football in Tyrone or any other of the counties in the North.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: BennyCake on September 17, 2018, 09:02:22 AM
The game is taken too serious. Players devote most of their lives, even to club football. ROared on by a demented manager making a name for himself and a brown envelope in his back pocket, getting boys to climb redwood trees and pulling monster trucks in the chapel car park. Players end up doing anything to gain success and lose sight of what's fair, honourable and sportsmanlike. So we end up with lads taken to hospital, broken jaws, lost teeth etc.

There is no outlet for your average club player, those who can't/won't devote the time/effort to play elite club football. No place for recreational football, just for the craic. Where the stakes are low, and boys are lining out for the enjoyment, to stay fit and the comradeship.

The GAA go on about the drop off after minor level. The main reason for it isn't lack of interest in the game. It's that people just can't commit to crazy schedules just to play club football.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: APM on September 17, 2018, 09:11:19 AM
I know this was nothing new, but the stuff on Mass and the Rosary for me is something that the Tyrone CB should be looking very strongly at.  Totally inappropriate given the message it sends out to those with other faiths and none, that have an interest in playing Gaelic Football.
Noticed an reference to this elsewhere, so took a quick look to see what the reaction was on this forum.

Frankly, I'm shocked - though not surprised - that this particular aspect of Cavanagh's book doesn't merit a thread of its own (or at least some comment from more than one or two individuals).

I mean, is no-one else astonished, even outraged, that a team manager could get away with imposing his personal religious leanings on an entire team, to the exclusion of those who may feel differently?

i read a lot of stuff about sledging and foul play etc, but there is at least some possible redress (referee) or comeback (retaliation) to those things, but what can someone on the Tyrone panel who doesn't agree say or do to this? Speak out and never play for the county again?

And all that's BEFORE you get to the context of sport and society in  NI.

Could you imagine the shitstorm if eg the Linfield manager required his players eg to take part in some sort of Orange Order parade, or British armed forces commemoration, or attend a Free Presbyterian service?

It would be roundly and publicly condemned, with the governing body clamping down immediately, and QUITE RIGHTLY too, imo. In fact, it's unthinkable. (And I say that as someone who pretty much despises Linfield, btw).

"GAA For All (Protestants need not apply)"

Those aren't accurate comparisons - I'd say an accurate comparison would be attending a church service, and the comparisons you've chosen are telling about you, but your general point is valid. (On a slight tangent though, weren't Irish league players forced to take part in a ceremony and have an anthem they don't recognise as theirs played as though it were recently??)

I don't see it as a big imposition at all, but nonetheless everyone should have their own free choice - I haven't seen any evidence yet that they didn't. If anyone went to MH and said, I'm not comfortable, do you really think they would have suffered repercussions re selection? I doubt it very much. It would seem noone involved had an issue (Unlike the Irish league example I mentioned earlier actually).

The majority of Irish catholics are brought up with the ritual of mass, when they have their own free choice they'll all attend weddings, funerals, mass at easter/christmas, for whatever reason. A mass before games in this context isn't a big deal. Irish catholicism isn't taken that seriously, its just a routine for many, and I think thats the context it needs to be taken in. its not forcing your religious views onto others, as it is being portrayed.

I think you missed the point there.
Most Irish catholics wouldn't have a major problem with it. But What about somebody who isn't catholic? It's a pretty big deal to anyone of any other religion (or no religion).  It could certainly be viewed as 'forcing' your catholic views onto non catholics.
Obviously, we don't know how much 'forcing' was done, but all managers want players to do things as a team. Therefore it's likely that everyone was strongly encouraged to go as a team!

I'm not missing the point. The players were all from a catholic background. The hypothetical situation you describe didn't occur. If it had, I'm sure it would have been dealt with in the proper manner. MH would of course have been aware of the situation and adjusted accordingly. He is there to build bonds and win matches, not convert people to catholicism.

At the end of the day, this was something willingly partaken in by a group of people comfortable with the environment they were in. What we now have is people outside that environment theorising about what took place, or could have took place, or how players probably weren't comfortable but weren't able to say anything....none of which I believe for a second.

And of course, it could be noted that if there was an issue the captain should surely be the person to bring that up with the management team at the time. Instead he sniped about it later, and hasn't chosen to point out that everyone seemed satisfied with the arrangement (if there'd been any murmurings you can bet he'd have written about them!)


You don't know that to be the case yet your saying others are theorising, surely you're just doing the same. I doubt very much that 30 odd twentysomethings in any Gaelic football squad are practicing Catholics and believe in God. Personally I'd be very annoyed in that was asked of me in a team setting and I think many younger players/fringe players etc. would feel they may not be able to raise their concerns. Harte is in a position of Tyrone GAA authority and a religious man himself, he shouldn't have mixed them together. It was totally out of order IMO.

There hasn't been the slightest murmurings of complaint from those who have ever partaken. Many of these have also left the panel now, so aren't restricted by the fear of MH that some posters would have you believe. So in the absence of a shred of evidence to the contrary, despite ample resources and time for such to be found, I think I'm entitled to form the opinion noone had an issue with it.

I agree completely that they are all very unlikey to be practicing catholics - the point the rest of the post made is that, when brought up as a catholic, you still partake in rituals when it suits - weddings, funerals, christmas, easter - without it costing you a thought. I think the same relevance should be placed on this ritual (i.e. not that much).

Good post which is very accurate.  Additionally, I doubt there are many top protestant forwards in Tyrone that we are missing out on.  I would be interested to see how many protestants are actually playing club football in Tyrone or any other of the counties in the North.

This attitude is a complete joke.  You need to wake up to yourself. 

Imagine the same conversation on the OWC forum.  "Sure what odds if Glentorinfield bring in Pastor James McConnell before the games for a prayer service.  There aren't too many Catholics playing in the Irish League and most of them play for Cliftonville anyway". This is what we call institutional sectarianism. 

What part of this don't you understand? It is not the players that you are currently missing out on in Tyrone - it is the long term perception of the GAA as an exclusively catholic organisation.  This applies as much to lapsed catholic families in Dublin, to protestants in the North, to Muslims in Ballyhaunis or to a catholics themselves that aren't comfortable with religion being brought into the changing room. 

It is also a concern that Mickey Harte's perception of the GAA is exclusively catholic, so much so, that he takes this approach. 

Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Itchy on September 17, 2018, 09:12:27 AM
I know this was nothing new, but the stuff on Mass and the Rosary for me is something that the Tyrone CB should be looking very strongly at.  Totally inappropriate given the message it sends out to those with other faiths and none, that have an interest in playing Gaelic Football.
Noticed an reference to this elsewhere, so took a quick look to see what the reaction was on this forum.

Frankly, I'm shocked - though not surprised - that this particular aspect of Cavanagh's book doesn't merit a thread of its own (or at least some comment from more than one or two individuals).

I mean, is no-one else astonished, even outraged, that a team manager could get away with imposing his personal religious leanings on an entire team, to the exclusion of those who may feel differently?

i read a lot of stuff about sledging and foul play etc, but there is at least some possible redress (referee) or comeback (retaliation) to those things, but what can someone on the Tyrone panel who doesn't agree say or do to this? Speak out and never play for the county again?

And all that's BEFORE you get to the context of sport and society in  NI.

Could you imagine the shitstorm if eg the Linfield manager required his players eg to take part in some sort of Orange Order parade, or British armed forces commemoration, or attend a Free Presbyterian service?

It would be roundly and publicly condemned, with the governing body clamping down immediately, and QUITE RIGHTLY too, imo. In fact, it's unthinkable. (And I say that as someone who pretty much despises Linfield, btw).

"GAA For All (Protestants need not apply)"

Those aren't accurate comparisons - I'd say an accurate comparison would be attending a church service, and the comparisons you've chosen are telling about you, but your general point is valid. (On a slight tangent though, weren't Irish league players forced to take part in a ceremony and have an anthem they don't recognise as theirs played as though it were recently??)

I don't see it as a big imposition at all, but nonetheless everyone should have their own free choice - I haven't seen any evidence yet that they didn't. If anyone went to MH and said, I'm not comfortable, do you really think they would have suffered repercussions re selection? I doubt it very much. It would seem noone involved had an issue (Unlike the Irish league example I mentioned earlier actually).

The majority of Irish catholics are brought up with the ritual of mass, when they have their own free choice they'll all attend weddings, funerals, mass at easter/christmas, for whatever reason. A mass before games in this context isn't a big deal. Irish catholicism isn't taken that seriously, its just a routine for many, and I think thats the context it needs to be taken in. its not forcing your religious views onto others, as it is being portrayed.

I think you missed the point there.
Most Irish catholics wouldn't have a major problem with it. But What about somebody who isn't catholic? It's a pretty big deal to anyone of any other religion (or no religion).  It could certainly be viewed as 'forcing' your catholic views onto non catholics.
Obviously, we don't know how much 'forcing' was done, but all managers want players to do things as a team. Therefore it's likely that everyone was strongly encouraged to go as a team!

I'm not missing the point. The players were all from a catholic background. The hypothetical situation you describe didn't occur. If it had, I'm sure it would have been dealt with in the proper manner. MH would of course have been aware of the situation and adjusted accordingly. He is there to build bonds and win matches, not convert people to catholicism.

At the end of the day, this was something willingly partaken in by a group of people comfortable with the environment they were in. What we now have is people outside that environment theorising about what took place, or could have took place, or how players probably weren't comfortable but weren't able to say anything....none of which I believe for a second.

And of course, it could be noted that if there was an issue the captain should surely be the person to bring that up with the management team at the time. Instead he sniped about it later, and hasn't chosen to point out that everyone seemed satisfied with the arrangement (if there'd been any murmurings you can bet he'd have written about them!)


You don't know that to be the case yet your saying others are theorising, surely you're just doing the same. I doubt very much that 30 odd twentysomethings in any Gaelic football squad are practicing Catholics and believe in God. Personally I'd be very annoyed in that was asked of me in a team setting and I think many younger players/fringe players etc. would feel they may not be able to raise their concerns. Harte is in a position of Tyrone GAA authority and a religious man himself, he shouldn't have mixed them together. It was totally out of order IMO.

There hasn't been the slightest murmurings of complaint from those who have ever partaken. Many of these have also left the panel now, so aren't restricted by the fear of MH that some posters would have you believe. So in the absence of a shred of evidence to the contrary, despite ample resources and time for such to be found, I think I'm entitled to form the opinion noone had an issue with it.

I agree completely that they are all very unlikey to be practicing catholics - the point the rest of the post made is that, when brought up as a catholic, you still partake in rituals when it suits - weddings, funerals, christmas, easter - without it costing you a thought. I think the same relevance should be placed on this ritual (i.e. not that much).

Good post which is very accurate.  Additionally, I doubt there are many top protestant forwards in Tyrone that we are missing out on.  I would be interested to see how many protestants are actually playing club football in Tyrone or any other of the counties in the North.

So protestants are a minority in GAA so it doesn't matter. Is it impossible for some of you to look at Mickey Harte with an open mind?
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: trueblue1234 on September 17, 2018, 09:22:30 AM
It's all Sean's fault. FFS. Thuggery is Thuggery. f**k them out of the Championship if you're serious about cleaning up the game.

Aww here that's exactly what we don't do. Just deal with it as per the rules. There's nowhere in the rules where it says a team can be f**ked out of the championship due to a bad hit. If it was intentional then deal with it as per the rule book. Lets not start going off and doing things just because it made the media. That's been the problem so many times for the GAA in the past and makes a mockery of the rules.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: reddgnhand on September 17, 2018, 09:22:51 AM
I know this was nothing new, but the stuff on Mass and the Rosary for me is something that the Tyrone CB should be looking very strongly at.  Totally inappropriate given the message it sends out to those with other faiths and none, that have an interest in playing Gaelic Football.
Noticed an reference to this elsewhere, so took a quick look to see what the reaction was on this forum.

Frankly, I'm shocked - though not surprised - that this particular aspect of Cavanagh's book doesn't merit a thread of its own (or at least some comment from more than one or two individuals).

I mean, is no-one else astonished, even outraged, that a team manager could get away with imposing his personal religious leanings on an entire team, to the exclusion of those who may feel differently?

i read a lot of stuff about sledging and foul play etc, but there is at least some possible redress (referee) or comeback (retaliation) to those things, but what can someone on the Tyrone panel who doesn't agree say or do to this? Speak out and never play for the county again?

And all that's BEFORE you get to the context of sport and society in  NI.

Could you imagine the shitstorm if eg the Linfield manager required his players eg to take part in some sort of Orange Order parade, or British armed forces commemoration, or attend a Free Presbyterian service?

It would be roundly and publicly condemned, with the governing body clamping down immediately, and QUITE RIGHTLY too, imo. In fact, it's unthinkable. (And I say that as someone who pretty much despises Linfield, btw).

"GAA For All (Protestants need not apply)"

Those aren't accurate comparisons - I'd say an accurate comparison would be attending a church service, and the comparisons you've chosen are telling about you, but your general point is valid. (On a slight tangent though, weren't Irish league players forced to take part in a ceremony and have an anthem they don't recognise as theirs played as though it were recently??)

I don't see it as a big imposition at all, but nonetheless everyone should have their own free choice - I haven't seen any evidence yet that they didn't. If anyone went to MH and said, I'm not comfortable, do you really think they would have suffered repercussions re selection? I doubt it very much. It would seem noone involved had an issue (Unlike the Irish league example I mentioned earlier actually).

The majority of Irish catholics are brought up with the ritual of mass, when they have their own free choice they'll all attend weddings, funerals, mass at easter/christmas, for whatever reason. A mass before games in this context isn't a big deal. Irish catholicism isn't taken that seriously, its just a routine for many, and I think thats the context it needs to be taken in. its not forcing your religious views onto others, as it is being portrayed.

I think you missed the point there.
Most Irish catholics wouldn't have a major problem with it. But What about somebody who isn't catholic? It's a pretty big deal to anyone of any other religion (or no religion).  It could certainly be viewed as 'forcing' your catholic views onto non catholics.
Obviously, we don't know how much 'forcing' was done, but all managers want players to do things as a team. Therefore it's likely that everyone was strongly encouraged to go as a team!

I'm not missing the point. The players were all from a catholic background. The hypothetical situation you describe didn't occur. If it had, I'm sure it would have been dealt with in the proper manner. MH would of course have been aware of the situation and adjusted accordingly. He is there to build bonds and win matches, not convert people to catholicism.

At the end of the day, this was something willingly partaken in by a group of people comfortable with the environment they were in. What we now have is people outside that environment theorising about what took place, or could have took place, or how players probably weren't comfortable but weren't able to say anything....none of which I believe for a second.

And of course, it could be noted that if there was an issue the captain should surely be the person to bring that up with the management team at the time. Instead he sniped about it later, and hasn't chosen to point out that everyone seemed satisfied with the arrangement (if there'd been any murmurings you can bet he'd have written about them!)


You don't know that to be the case yet your saying others are theorising, surely you're just doing the same. I doubt very much that 30 odd twentysomethings in any Gaelic football squad are practicing Catholics and believe in God. Personally I'd be very annoyed in that was asked of me in a team setting and I think many younger players/fringe players etc. would feel they may not be able to raise their concerns. Harte is in a position of Tyrone GAA authority and a religious man himself, he shouldn't have mixed them together. It was totally out of order IMO.

There hasn't been the slightest murmurings of complaint from those who have ever partaken. Many of these have also left the panel now, so aren't restricted by the fear of MH that some posters would have you believe. So in the absence of a shred of evidence to the contrary, despite ample resources and time for such to be found, I think I'm entitled to form the opinion noone had an issue with it.

I agree completely that they are all very unlikey to be practicing catholics - the point the rest of the post made is that, when brought up as a catholic, you still partake in rituals when it suits - weddings, funerals, christmas, easter - without it costing you a thought. I think the same relevance should be placed on this ritual (i.e. not that much).

Good post which is very accurate.  Additionally, I doubt there are many top protestant forwards in Tyrone that we are missing out on.  I would be interested to see how many protestants are actually playing club football in Tyrone or any other of the counties in the North.

So protestants are a minority in GAA so it doesn't matter. Is it impossible for some of you to look at Mickey Harte with an open mind?

I hate all that shite. I include the clubs annual mass, blessing of pitches etc. MH should keep his beliefs out of the changing room its got f**k all to do with football.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Jinxy on September 17, 2018, 09:32:45 AM
I was at the game. Cavanagh caught the ball was fouled (by no.9 I think) and fell. No.12 came in and fell on top of him with both knees. I don't know if was an accident or not. Only the player will know. Ref was looking straight at it. Didn't deem it worthy of a card etc. The ref in general had a poor game for both teams.
All Tyrone games are videoed. That will probably come out this week. Whether that sheds any light on the incident is anybodies guess.

Anyway that's exactly what happened.

Is there some genetic weakness in the lower legs of Tyrone men that causes them to do this?
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: nrico2006 on September 17, 2018, 09:54:53 AM
I know this was nothing new, but the stuff on Mass and the Rosary for me is something that the Tyrone CB should be looking very strongly at.  Totally inappropriate given the message it sends out to those with other faiths and none, that have an interest in playing Gaelic Football.
Noticed an reference to this elsewhere, so took a quick look to see what the reaction was on this forum.

Frankly, I'm shocked - though not surprised - that this particular aspect of Cavanagh's book doesn't merit a thread of its own (or at least some comment from more than one or two individuals).

I mean, is no-one else astonished, even outraged, that a team manager could get away with imposing his personal religious leanings on an entire team, to the exclusion of those who may feel differently?

i read a lot of stuff about sledging and foul play etc, but there is at least some possible redress (referee) or comeback (retaliation) to those things, but what can someone on the Tyrone panel who doesn't agree say or do to this? Speak out and never play for the county again?

And all that's BEFORE you get to the context of sport and society in  NI.

Could you imagine the shitstorm if eg the Linfield manager required his players eg to take part in some sort of Orange Order parade, or British armed forces commemoration, or attend a Free Presbyterian service?

It would be roundly and publicly condemned, with the governing body clamping down immediately, and QUITE RIGHTLY too, imo. In fact, it's unthinkable. (And I say that as someone who pretty much despises Linfield, btw).

"GAA For All (Protestants need not apply)"

Those aren't accurate comparisons - I'd say an accurate comparison would be attending a church service, and the comparisons you've chosen are telling about you, but your general point is valid. (On a slight tangent though, weren't Irish league players forced to take part in a ceremony and have an anthem they don't recognise as theirs played as though it were recently??)

I don't see it as a big imposition at all, but nonetheless everyone should have their own free choice - I haven't seen any evidence yet that they didn't. If anyone went to MH and said, I'm not comfortable, do you really think they would have suffered repercussions re selection? I doubt it very much. It would seem noone involved had an issue (Unlike the Irish league example I mentioned earlier actually).

The majority of Irish catholics are brought up with the ritual of mass, when they have their own free choice they'll all attend weddings, funerals, mass at easter/christmas, for whatever reason. A mass before games in this context isn't a big deal. Irish catholicism isn't taken that seriously, its just a routine for many, and I think thats the context it needs to be taken in. its not forcing your religious views onto others, as it is being portrayed.

I think you missed the point there.
Most Irish catholics wouldn't have a major problem with it. But What about somebody who isn't catholic? It's a pretty big deal to anyone of any other religion (or no religion).  It could certainly be viewed as 'forcing' your catholic views onto non catholics.
Obviously, we don't know how much 'forcing' was done, but all managers want players to do things as a team. Therefore it's likely that everyone was strongly encouraged to go as a team!

I'm not missing the point. The players were all from a catholic background. The hypothetical situation you describe didn't occur. If it had, I'm sure it would have been dealt with in the proper manner. MH would of course have been aware of the situation and adjusted accordingly. He is there to build bonds and win matches, not convert people to catholicism.

At the end of the day, this was something willingly partaken in by a group of people comfortable with the environment they were in. What we now have is people outside that environment theorising about what took place, or could have took place, or how players probably weren't comfortable but weren't able to say anything....none of which I believe for a second.

And of course, it could be noted that if there was an issue the captain should surely be the person to bring that up with the management team at the time. Instead he sniped about it later, and hasn't chosen to point out that everyone seemed satisfied with the arrangement (if there'd been any murmurings you can bet he'd have written about them!)


You don't know that to be the case yet your saying others are theorising, surely you're just doing the same. I doubt very much that 30 odd twentysomethings in any Gaelic football squad are practicing Catholics and believe in God. Personally I'd be very annoyed in that was asked of me in a team setting and I think many younger players/fringe players etc. would feel they may not be able to raise their concerns. Harte is in a position of Tyrone GAA authority and a religious man himself, he shouldn't have mixed them together. It was totally out of order IMO.

There hasn't been the slightest murmurings of complaint from those who have ever partaken. Many of these have also left the panel now, so aren't restricted by the fear of MH that some posters would have you believe. So in the absence of a shred of evidence to the contrary, despite ample resources and time for such to be found, I think I'm entitled to form the opinion noone had an issue with it.

I agree completely that they are all very unlikey to be practicing catholics - the point the rest of the post made is that, when brought up as a catholic, you still partake in rituals when it suits - weddings, funerals, christmas, easter - without it costing you a thought. I think the same relevance should be placed on this ritual (i.e. not that much).

Good post which is very accurate.  Additionally, I doubt there are many top protestant forwards in Tyrone that we are missing out on.  I would be interested to see how many protestants are actually playing club football in Tyrone or any other of the counties in the North.

This attitude is a complete joke.  You need to wake up to yourself. 

Imagine the same conversation on the OWC forum.  "Sure what odds if Glentorinfield bring in Pastor James McConnell before the games for a prayer service.  There aren't too many Catholics playing in the Irish League and most of them play for Cliftonville anyway". This is what we call institutional sectarianism. 

What part of this don't you understand? It is not the players that you are currently missing out on in Tyrone - it is the long term perception of the GAA as an exclusively catholic organisation.  This applies as much to lapsed catholic families in Dublin, to protestants in the North, to Muslims in Ballyhaunis or to a catholics themselves that aren't comfortable with religion being brought into the changing room. 

It is also a concern that Mickey Harte's perception of the GAA is exclusively catholic, so much so, that he takes this approach.

Wise up.  Institutional sectarianism - good one.  The fact of the matter is that most GAA players are catholic.  Very few protestants play and I don't see that changing.  Do I have any issue with them playing?  Of course not, it would be great if it was more welcoming to protestants and became more inclusive.  However, in this case that you are getting your knickers in a twist over, a manager has taken his team to mass before games.  Harte knows the makeup of his squad, which I assume is all catholic, therefore he has done what he has done on this basis.  I doubt he would have arranged this if the squad had members of other faiths included.  I'm sure a lot of fellas didn't really want to go, moreso because they couldn't be bothered rather than the fact that they are extremely offended.  They had a choice still.  I am Catholic, but its been a long time since I was at mass, really because I have other things I would rather do.  If I was in the squad, I wouldn't have wanted to go but I probably would have went as it is no big deal and I've been hundreds of times before.  As Haranguerer said, you partake in rituals when the need arises - weddings, funerals, Christmas, Easter etc, without it costing you a thought.  I'm sure the players that attended went without much mulling over required, its only mass after all.   
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: trueblue1234 on September 17, 2018, 10:07:17 AM
I know this was nothing new, but the stuff on Mass and the Rosary for me is something that the Tyrone CB should be looking very strongly at.  Totally inappropriate given the message it sends out to those with other faiths and none, that have an interest in playing Gaelic Football.
Noticed an reference to this elsewhere, so took a quick look to see what the reaction was on this forum.

Frankly, I'm shocked - though not surprised - that this particular aspect of Cavanagh's book doesn't merit a thread of its own (or at least some comment from more than one or two individuals).

I mean, is no-one else astonished, even outraged, that a team manager could get away with imposing his personal religious leanings on an entire team, to the exclusion of those who may feel differently?

i read a lot of stuff about sledging and foul play etc, but there is at least some possible redress (referee) or comeback (retaliation) to those things, but what can someone on the Tyrone panel who doesn't agree say or do to this? Speak out and never play for the county again?

And all that's BEFORE you get to the context of sport and society in  NI.

Could you imagine the shitstorm if eg the Linfield manager required his players eg to take part in some sort of Orange Order parade, or British armed forces commemoration, or attend a Free Presbyterian service?

It would be roundly and publicly condemned, with the governing body clamping down immediately, and QUITE RIGHTLY too, imo. In fact, it's unthinkable. (And I say that as someone who pretty much despises Linfield, btw).

"GAA For All (Protestants need not apply)"

Those aren't accurate comparisons - I'd say an accurate comparison would be attending a church service, and the comparisons you've chosen are telling about you, but your general point is valid. (On a slight tangent though, weren't Irish league players forced to take part in a ceremony and have an anthem they don't recognise as theirs played as though it were recently??)

I don't see it as a big imposition at all, but nonetheless everyone should have their own free choice - I haven't seen any evidence yet that they didn't. If anyone went to MH and said, I'm not comfortable, do you really think they would have suffered repercussions re selection? I doubt it very much. It would seem noone involved had an issue (Unlike the Irish league example I mentioned earlier actually).

The majority of Irish catholics are brought up with the ritual of mass, when they have their own free choice they'll all attend weddings, funerals, mass at easter/christmas, for whatever reason. A mass before games in this context isn't a big deal. Irish catholicism isn't taken that seriously, its just a routine for many, and I think thats the context it needs to be taken in. its not forcing your religious views onto others, as it is being portrayed.

I think you missed the point there.
Most Irish catholics wouldn't have a major problem with it. But What about somebody who isn't catholic? It's a pretty big deal to anyone of any other religion (or no religion).  It could certainly be viewed as 'forcing' your catholic views onto non catholics.
Obviously, we don't know how much 'forcing' was done, but all managers want players to do things as a team. Therefore it's likely that everyone was strongly encouraged to go as a team!

I'm not missing the point. The players were all from a catholic background. The hypothetical situation you describe didn't occur. If it had, I'm sure it would have been dealt with in the proper manner. MH would of course have been aware of the situation and adjusted accordingly. He is there to build bonds and win matches, not convert people to catholicism.

At the end of the day, this was something willingly partaken in by a group of people comfortable with the environment they were in. What we now have is people outside that environment theorising about what took place, or could have took place, or how players probably weren't comfortable but weren't able to say anything....none of which I believe for a second.

And of course, it could be noted that if there was an issue the captain should surely be the person to bring that up with the management team at the time. Instead he sniped about it later, and hasn't chosen to point out that everyone seemed satisfied with the arrangement (if there'd been any murmurings you can bet he'd have written about them!)


You don't know that to be the case yet your saying others are theorising, surely you're just doing the same. I doubt very much that 30 odd twentysomethings in any Gaelic football squad are practicing Catholics and believe in God. Personally I'd be very annoyed in that was asked of me in a team setting and I think many younger players/fringe players etc. would feel they may not be able to raise their concerns. Harte is in a position of Tyrone GAA authority and a religious man himself, he shouldn't have mixed them together. It was totally out of order IMO.

There hasn't been the slightest murmurings of complaint from those who have ever partaken. Many of these have also left the panel now, so aren't restricted by the fear of MH that some posters would have you believe. So in the absence of a shred of evidence to the contrary, despite ample resources and time for such to be found, I think I'm entitled to form the opinion noone had an issue with it.

I agree completely that they are all very unlikey to be practicing catholics - the point the rest of the post made is that, when brought up as a catholic, you still partake in rituals when it suits - weddings, funerals, christmas, easter - without it costing you a thought. I think the same relevance should be placed on this ritual (i.e. not that much).

Good post which is very accurate.  Additionally, I doubt there are many top protestant forwards in Tyrone that we are missing out on.  I would be interested to see how many protestants are actually playing club football in Tyrone or any other of the counties in the North.

This attitude is a complete joke.  You need to wake up to yourself. 

Imagine the same conversation on the OWC forum.  "Sure what odds if Glentorinfield bring in Pastor James McConnell before the games for a prayer service.  There aren't too many Catholics playing in the Irish League and most of them play for Cliftonville anyway". This is what we call institutional sectarianism. 

What part of this don't you understand? It is not the players that you are currently missing out on in Tyrone - it is the long term perception of the GAA as an exclusively catholic organisation.  This applies as much to lapsed catholic families in Dublin, to protestants in the North, to Muslims in Ballyhaunis or to a catholics themselves that aren't comfortable with religion being brought into the changing room. 

It is also a concern that Mickey Harte's perception of the GAA is exclusively catholic, so much so, that he takes this approach.

Wise up.  Institutional sectarianism - good one.  The fact of the matter is that most GAA players are catholic.  Very few protestants play and I don't see that changing.  Do I have any issue with them playing?  Of course not, it would be great if it was more welcoming to protestants and became more inclusive.  However, in this case that you are getting your knickers in a twist over, a manager has taken his team to mass before games.  Harte knows the makeup of his squad, which I assume is all catholic, therefore he has done what he has done on this basis.  I doubt he would have arranged this if the squad had members of other faiths included.  I'm sure a lot of fellas didn't really want to go, moreso because they couldn't be bothered rather than the fact that they are extremely offended.  They had a choice still.  I am Catholic, but its been a long time since I was at mass, really because I have other things I would rather do.  If I was in the squad, I wouldn't have wanted to go but I probably would have went as it is no big deal and I've been hundreds of times before.  As Haranguerer said, you partake in rituals when the need arises - weddings, funerals, Christmas, Easter etc, without it costing you a thought.  I'm sure the players that attended went without much mulling over required, its only mass after all.

Look I'm a Mickey Harte supporter. I wouldn't want anyone else in there managing Tyrone for the time being as I think he's the best at what he does. But I can't agree with this attitude.
It's not about whether there is a fantastic Protestant playing out there at the  minute that we're missing out on. It's the perception that the Tyrone team is all catholic and that it is part of the culture. The knock on effect of that is that some protestants that were maybe thinking of playing, or parents of children who were thinking of sending their children to football in Tyrone may have second thoughts given this perceived culture. You could argue that it wasn't going to happy anyway, but that doesn't matter, as long as we aren't creating a barrier to it happening. So it's not about who we might be missing out on now, but who we may be missing out on in the future by creating this image.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: APM on September 17, 2018, 10:26:06 AM
I know this was nothing new, but the stuff on Mass and the Rosary for me is something that the Tyrone CB should be looking very strongly at.  Totally inappropriate given the message it sends out to those with other faiths and none, that have an interest in playing Gaelic Football.
Noticed an reference to this elsewhere, so took a quick look to see what the reaction was on this forum.

Frankly, I'm shocked - though not surprised - that this particular aspect of Cavanagh's book doesn't merit a thread of its own (or at least some comment from more than one or two individuals).

I mean, is no-one else astonished, even outraged, that a team manager could get away with imposing his personal religious leanings on an entire team, to the exclusion of those who may feel differently?

i read a lot of stuff about sledging and foul play etc, but there is at least some possible redress (referee) or comeback (retaliation) to those things, but what can someone on the Tyrone panel who doesn't agree say or do to this? Speak out and never play for the county again?

And all that's BEFORE you get to the context of sport and society in  NI.

Could you imagine the shitstorm if eg the Linfield manager required his players eg to take part in some sort of Orange Order parade, or British armed forces commemoration, or attend a Free Presbyterian service?

It would be roundly and publicly condemned, with the governing body clamping down immediately, and QUITE RIGHTLY too, imo. In fact, it's unthinkable. (And I say that as someone who pretty much despises Linfield, btw).

"GAA For All (Protestants need not apply)"

Those aren't accurate comparisons - I'd say an accurate comparison would be attending a church service, and the comparisons you've chosen are telling about you, but your general point is valid. (On a slight tangent though, weren't Irish league players forced to take part in a ceremony and have an anthem they don't recognise as theirs played as though it were recently??)

I don't see it as a big imposition at all, but nonetheless everyone should have their own free choice - I haven't seen any evidence yet that they didn't. If anyone went to MH and said, I'm not comfortable, do you really think they would have suffered repercussions re selection? I doubt it very much. It would seem noone involved had an issue (Unlike the Irish league example I mentioned earlier actually).

The majority of Irish catholics are brought up with the ritual of mass, when they have their own free choice they'll all attend weddings, funerals, mass at easter/christmas, for whatever reason. A mass before games in this context isn't a big deal. Irish catholicism isn't taken that seriously, its just a routine for many, and I think thats the context it needs to be taken in. its not forcing your religious views onto others, as it is being portrayed.

I think you missed the point there.
Most Irish catholics wouldn't have a major problem with it. But What about somebody who isn't catholic? It's a pretty big deal to anyone of any other religion (or no religion).  It could certainly be viewed as 'forcing' your catholic views onto non catholics.
Obviously, we don't know how much 'forcing' was done, but all managers want players to do things as a team. Therefore it's likely that everyone was strongly encouraged to go as a team!

I'm not missing the point. The players were all from a catholic background. The hypothetical situation you describe didn't occur. If it had, I'm sure it would have been dealt with in the proper manner. MH would of course have been aware of the situation and adjusted accordingly. He is there to build bonds and win matches, not convert people to catholicism.

At the end of the day, this was something willingly partaken in by a group of people comfortable with the environment they were in. What we now have is people outside that environment theorising about what took place, or could have took place, or how players probably weren't comfortable but weren't able to say anything....none of which I believe for a second.

And of course, it could be noted that if there was an issue the captain should surely be the person to bring that up with the management team at the time. Instead he sniped about it later, and hasn't chosen to point out that everyone seemed satisfied with the arrangement (if there'd been any murmurings you can bet he'd have written about them!)


You don't know that to be the case yet your saying others are theorising, surely you're just doing the same. I doubt very much that 30 odd twentysomethings in any Gaelic football squad are practicing Catholics and believe in God. Personally I'd be very annoyed in that was asked of me in a team setting and I think many younger players/fringe players etc. would feel they may not be able to raise their concerns. Harte is in a position of Tyrone GAA authority and a religious man himself, he shouldn't have mixed them together. It was totally out of order IMO.

There hasn't been the slightest murmurings of complaint from those who have ever partaken. Many of these have also left the panel now, so aren't restricted by the fear of MH that some posters would have you believe. So in the absence of a shred of evidence to the contrary, despite ample resources and time for such to be found, I think I'm entitled to form the opinion noone had an issue with it.

I agree completely that they are all very unlikey to be practicing catholics - the point the rest of the post made is that, when brought up as a catholic, you still partake in rituals when it suits - weddings, funerals, christmas, easter - without it costing you a thought. I think the same relevance should be placed on this ritual (i.e. not that much).

Good post which is very accurate.  Additionally, I doubt there are many top protestant forwards in Tyrone that we are missing out on.  I would be interested to see how many protestants are actually playing club football in Tyrone or any other of the counties in the North.

This attitude is a complete joke.  You need to wake up to yourself. 

Imagine the same conversation on the OWC forum.  "Sure what odds if Glentorinfield bring in Pastor James McConnell before the games for a prayer service.  There aren't too many Catholics playing in the Irish League and most of them play for Cliftonville anyway". This is what we call institutional sectarianism. 

What part of this don't you understand? It is not the players that you are currently missing out on in Tyrone - it is the long term perception of the GAA as an exclusively catholic organisation.  This applies as much to lapsed catholic families in Dublin, to protestants in the North, to Muslims in Ballyhaunis or to a catholics themselves that aren't comfortable with religion being brought into the changing room. 

It is also a concern that Mickey Harte's perception of the GAA is exclusively catholic, so much so, that he takes this approach.

Wise up.  Institutional sectarianism - good one.  The fact of the matter is that most GAA players are catholic.  Very few protestants play and I don't see that changing.  Do I have any issue with them playing?  Of course not, it would be great if it was more welcoming to protestants and became more inclusive.  However, in this case that you are getting your knickers in a twist over, a manager has taken his team to mass before games.  Harte knows the makeup of his squad, which I assume is all catholic, therefore he has done what he has done on this basis.  I doubt he would have arranged this if the squad had members of other faiths included.  I'm sure a lot of fellas didn't really want to go, moreso because they couldn't be bothered rather than the fact that they are extremely offended.  They had a choice still.  I am Catholic, but its been a long time since I was at mass, really because I have other things I would rather do.  If I was in the squad, I wouldn't have wanted to go but I probably would have went as it is no big deal and I've been hundreds of times before.  As Haranguerer said, you partake in rituals when the need arises - weddings, funerals, Christmas, Easter etc, without it costing you a thought.  I'm sure the players that attended went without much mulling over required, its only mass after all.   

I'd like you to address the scenario I mentioned above. 

Your 14 y/o son is a promising soccer player.  Top Irish League club want him to join their youth team.  You are up for it, but then you hear that Pastor James McConnell prays with the senior team before all their league and cup matches.  What do you do?

Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: haranguerer on September 17, 2018, 10:31:17 AM
You're talking rubbish. As EG did in the initial post, you're using false equivalences.

Your teammate dies. He was catholic, you're protestant. The team ask everyone to attend the funeral in club colours and do a guard of honour. What do you do?

Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: APM on September 17, 2018, 10:37:36 AM
What I'm describing is completely equivalent! EG brought the OO into it which was a false equivalence.  The scenario you describe above is also a false equivalent!

This is truly equivalent.  Both scenarios involve prayer associated with a particular religion or denomination before a game. 

Harte has given his players Rosary Beads and they have said the rosary together.  The team attends mass before games.  How is this any different to the scenario I have asked you to consider. 

Tell me what you would do? Tell me how that would make you feel about that club? Tell me how it would make you feel about the Irish League. 
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: haranguerer on September 17, 2018, 10:44:53 AM
Oh really? Why did you pick James McConnell?
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: nrico2006 on September 17, 2018, 10:47:54 AM
I know this was nothing new, but the stuff on Mass and the Rosary for me is something that the Tyrone CB should be looking very strongly at.  Totally inappropriate given the message it sends out to those with other faiths and none, that have an interest in playing Gaelic Football.
Noticed an reference to this elsewhere, so took a quick look to see what the reaction was on this forum.

Frankly, I'm shocked - though not surprised - that this particular aspect of Cavanagh's book doesn't merit a thread of its own (or at least some comment from more than one or two individuals).

I mean, is no-one else astonished, even outraged, that a team manager could get away with imposing his personal religious leanings on an entire team, to the exclusion of those who may feel differently?

i read a lot of stuff about sledging and foul play etc, but there is at least some possible redress (referee) or comeback (retaliation) to those things, but what can someone on the Tyrone panel who doesn't agree say or do to this? Speak out and never play for the county again?

And all that's BEFORE you get to the context of sport and society in  NI.

Could you imagine the shitstorm if eg the Linfield manager required his players eg to take part in some sort of Orange Order parade, or British armed forces commemoration, or attend a Free Presbyterian service?

It would be roundly and publicly condemned, with the governing body clamping down immediately, and QUITE RIGHTLY too, imo. In fact, it's unthinkable. (And I say that as someone who pretty much despises Linfield, btw).

"GAA For All (Protestants need not apply)"

Those aren't accurate comparisons - I'd say an accurate comparison would be attending a church service, and the comparisons you've chosen are telling about you, but your general point is valid. (On a slight tangent though, weren't Irish league players forced to take part in a ceremony and have an anthem they don't recognise as theirs played as though it were recently??)

I don't see it as a big imposition at all, but nonetheless everyone should have their own free choice - I haven't seen any evidence yet that they didn't. If anyone went to MH and said, I'm not comfortable, do you really think they would have suffered repercussions re selection? I doubt it very much. It would seem noone involved had an issue (Unlike the Irish league example I mentioned earlier actually).

The majority of Irish catholics are brought up with the ritual of mass, when they have their own free choice they'll all attend weddings, funerals, mass at easter/christmas, for whatever reason. A mass before games in this context isn't a big deal. Irish catholicism isn't taken that seriously, its just a routine for many, and I think thats the context it needs to be taken in. its not forcing your religious views onto others, as it is being portrayed.

I think you missed the point there.
Most Irish catholics wouldn't have a major problem with it. But What about somebody who isn't catholic? It's a pretty big deal to anyone of any other religion (or no religion).  It could certainly be viewed as 'forcing' your catholic views onto non catholics.
Obviously, we don't know how much 'forcing' was done, but all managers want players to do things as a team. Therefore it's likely that everyone was strongly encouraged to go as a team!

I'm not missing the point. The players were all from a catholic background. The hypothetical situation you describe didn't occur. If it had, I'm sure it would have been dealt with in the proper manner. MH would of course have been aware of the situation and adjusted accordingly. He is there to build bonds and win matches, not convert people to catholicism.

At the end of the day, this was something willingly partaken in by a group of people comfortable with the environment they were in. What we now have is people outside that environment theorising about what took place, or could have took place, or how players probably weren't comfortable but weren't able to say anything....none of which I believe for a second.

And of course, it could be noted that if there was an issue the captain should surely be the person to bring that up with the management team at the time. Instead he sniped about it later, and hasn't chosen to point out that everyone seemed satisfied with the arrangement (if there'd been any murmurings you can bet he'd have written about them!)


You don't know that to be the case yet your saying others are theorising, surely you're just doing the same. I doubt very much that 30 odd twentysomethings in any Gaelic football squad are practicing Catholics and believe in God. Personally I'd be very annoyed in that was asked of me in a team setting and I think many younger players/fringe players etc. would feel they may not be able to raise their concerns. Harte is in a position of Tyrone GAA authority and a religious man himself, he shouldn't have mixed them together. It was totally out of order IMO.

There hasn't been the slightest murmurings of complaint from those who have ever partaken. Many of these have also left the panel now, so aren't restricted by the fear of MH that some posters would have you believe. So in the absence of a shred of evidence to the contrary, despite ample resources and time for such to be found, I think I'm entitled to form the opinion noone had an issue with it.

I agree completely that they are all very unlikey to be practicing catholics - the point the rest of the post made is that, when brought up as a catholic, you still partake in rituals when it suits - weddings, funerals, christmas, easter - without it costing you a thought. I think the same relevance should be placed on this ritual (i.e. not that much).

Good post which is very accurate.  Additionally, I doubt there are many top protestant forwards in Tyrone that we are missing out on.  I would be interested to see how many protestants are actually playing club football in Tyrone or any other of the counties in the North.

This attitude is a complete joke.  You need to wake up to yourself. 

Imagine the same conversation on the OWC forum.  "Sure what odds if Glentorinfield bring in Pastor James McConnell before the games for a prayer service.  There aren't too many Catholics playing in the Irish League and most of them play for Cliftonville anyway". This is what we call institutional sectarianism. 

What part of this don't you understand? It is not the players that you are currently missing out on in Tyrone - it is the long term perception of the GAA as an exclusively catholic organisation.  This applies as much to lapsed catholic families in Dublin, to protestants in the North, to Muslims in Ballyhaunis or to a catholics themselves that aren't comfortable with religion being brought into the changing room. 

It is also a concern that Mickey Harte's perception of the GAA is exclusively catholic, so much so, that he takes this approach.

Wise up.  Institutional sectarianism - good one.  The fact of the matter is that most GAA players are catholic.  Very few protestants play and I don't see that changing.  Do I have any issue with them playing?  Of course not, it would be great if it was more welcoming to protestants and became more inclusive.  However, in this case that you are getting your knickers in a twist over, a manager has taken his team to mass before games.  Harte knows the makeup of his squad, which I assume is all catholic, therefore he has done what he has done on this basis.  I doubt he would have arranged this if the squad had members of other faiths included.  I'm sure a lot of fellas didn't really want to go, moreso because they couldn't be bothered rather than the fact that they are extremely offended.  They had a choice still.  I am Catholic, but its been a long time since I was at mass, really because I have other things I would rather do.  If I was in the squad, I wouldn't have wanted to go but I probably would have went as it is no big deal and I've been hundreds of times before.  As Haranguerer said, you partake in rituals when the need arises - weddings, funerals, Christmas, Easter etc, without it costing you a thought.  I'm sure the players that attended went without much mulling over required, its only mass after all.   

I'd like you to address the scenario I mentioned above. 

Your 14 y/o son is a promising soccer player.  Top Irish League club want him to join their youth team.  You are up for it, but then you hear that Pastor James McConnell prays with the senior team before all their league and cup matches.  What do you do?

I'd let him join the youth team. 
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: easytiger95 on September 17, 2018, 10:53:58 AM
The game is taken too serious. Players devote most of their lives, even to club football. ROared on by a demented manager making a name for himself and a brown envelope in his back pocket, getting boys to climb redwood trees and pulling monster trucks in the chapel car park. Players end up doing anything to gain success and lose sight of what's fair, honourable and sportsmanlike. So we end up with lads taken to hospital, broken jaws, lost teeth etc.

There is no outlet for your average club player, those who can't/won't devote the time/effort to play elite club football. No place for recreational football, just for the craic. Where the stakes are low, and boys are lining out for the enjoyment, to stay fit and the comradeship.

The GAA go on about the drop off after minor level. The main reason for it isn't lack of interest in the game. It's that people just can't commit to crazy schedules just to play club football.

+1000

My son is just starting off in the game - for a couple of medical reasons he is probably never going to trouble Brian Fenton's place on the Dublin team, but I would love if he could just have it as a past time to knock around with his friends. I doubt that is going to happen and I think the drop off will come a lot quicker as things get a lot more competitive when they hit the teen years.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: APM on September 17, 2018, 11:12:09 AM
Oh really? Why did you pick James McConnell?

Fair enough point - pick any preacher!

I'd let him join the youth team. 

If you are being genuine, then I would say fair play - I'm not so sure I'd feel the same, no more so than if the parish priest was coming into the club to say a rosary with the u14s before a championship final.  I go to mass weekly, so have no problem with religion per se. But I would have a major issue with it being foisted upon people who haven't asked for it. 

My major issue in all of this is that we assume that all gaelic footballers are catholic and that the only ones that would want to play are catholic.  Therefore, why wouldn't this be a problem.  That is a very dangerous assumption and that's what gets my goat about this. 
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: nrico2006 on September 17, 2018, 11:36:09 AM
Oh really? Why did you pick James McConnell?

Fair enough point - pick any preacher!

I'd let him join the youth team. 

If you are being genuine, then I would say fair play - I'm not so sure I'd feel the same, no more so than if the parish priest was coming into the club to say a rosary with the u14s before a championship final.  I go to mass weekly, so have no problem with religion per se. But I would have a major issue with it being foisted upon people who haven't asked for it. 

My major issue in all of this is that we assume that all gaelic footballers are catholic and that the only ones that would want to play are catholic.  Therefore, why wouldn't this be a problem.  That is a very dangerous assumption and that's what gets my goat about this.

I don't disagree either regarding the religion, I just don't see it as a big deal.  If it was me in charge of a team I wouldn't see any reason to bring the squad to mass etc, there are other more fun ways of team building.  I also would rather there were no pastor at the football club, but again I wouldn't see it as a big deal.  I have a wee girl who would rather go to GB than ladies football or camogie, same with that in that I let her go to whatever she prefers irrelevant of the environment it brings me or her to.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: trileacman on September 17, 2018, 11:52:58 AM
Oh really? Why did you pick James McConnell?

Fair enough point - pick any preacher!

I'd let him join the youth team. 

If you are being genuine, then I would say fair play - I'm not so sure I'd feel the same, no more so than if the parish priest was coming into the club to say a rosary with the u14s before a championship final.  I go to mass weekly, so have no problem with religion per se. But I would have a major issue with it being foisted upon people who haven't asked for it. 

My major issue in all of this is that we assume that all gaelic footballers are catholic and that the only ones that would want to play are catholic.  Therefore, why wouldn't this be a problem.  That is a very dangerous assumption and that's what gets my goat about this.

To be honest you’re just foisting atheism upon your child the same way in which Harte is foisting Catholicism upon his team. So your kid wants to play soccer for a youth team and you refuse due to the religious habits of a senior side he might never have any involvement in? That’s shitty parenting.

What if your kid grows up to be agnostic and sees the dressing room prayer as a harmless way to foster team bonding? What if you kid grows up to be religious and sees the prayer sessions as an integral part of life?

Hartes managing a group of 22-30 year olds not pre-schoolers. If they’ve qualms about the religious elements of the experience let them voice it with Harte, their old enough to fight there own battles with an aging county manager in the twilight of his career. Enough of these one man crusaders against the slowly diminishing role of Catholicism in the GAA.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Itchy on September 17, 2018, 01:44:51 PM
I know this was nothing new, but the stuff on Mass and the Rosary for me is something that the Tyrone CB should be looking very strongly at.  Totally inappropriate given the message it sends out to those with other faiths and none, that have an interest in playing Gaelic Football.
Noticed an reference to this elsewhere, so took a quick look to see what the reaction was on this forum.

Frankly, I'm shocked - though not surprised - that this particular aspect of Cavanagh's book doesn't merit a thread of its own (or at least some comment from more than one or two individuals).

I mean, is no-one else astonished, even outraged, that a team manager could get away with imposing his personal religious leanings on an entire team, to the exclusion of those who may feel differently?

i read a lot of stuff about sledging and foul play etc, but there is at least some possible redress (referee) or comeback (retaliation) to those things, but what can someone on the Tyrone panel who doesn't agree say or do to this? Speak out and never play for the county again?

And all that's BEFORE you get to the context of sport and society in  NI.

Could you imagine the shitstorm if eg the Linfield manager required his players eg to take part in some sort of Orange Order parade, or British armed forces commemoration, or attend a Free Presbyterian service?

It would be roundly and publicly condemned, with the governing body clamping down immediately, and QUITE RIGHTLY too, imo. In fact, it's unthinkable. (And I say that as someone who pretty much despises Linfield, btw).

"GAA For All (Protestants need not apply)"

Those aren't accurate comparisons - I'd say an accurate comparison would be attending a church service, and the comparisons you've chosen are telling about you, but your general point is valid. (On a slight tangent though, weren't Irish league players forced to take part in a ceremony and have an anthem they don't recognise as theirs played as though it were recently??)

I don't see it as a big imposition at all, but nonetheless everyone should have their own free choice - I haven't seen any evidence yet that they didn't. If anyone went to MH and said, I'm not comfortable, do you really think they would have suffered repercussions re selection? I doubt it very much. It would seem noone involved had an issue (Unlike the Irish league example I mentioned earlier actually).

The majority of Irish catholics are brought up with the ritual of mass, when they have their own free choice they'll all attend weddings, funerals, mass at easter/christmas, for whatever reason. A mass before games in this context isn't a big deal. Irish catholicism isn't taken that seriously, its just a routine for many, and I think thats the context it needs to be taken in. its not forcing your religious views onto others, as it is being portrayed.

I think you missed the point there.
Most Irish catholics wouldn't have a major problem with it. But What about somebody who isn't catholic? It's a pretty big deal to anyone of any other religion (or no religion).  It could certainly be viewed as 'forcing' your catholic views onto non catholics.
Obviously, we don't know how much 'forcing' was done, but all managers want players to do things as a team. Therefore it's likely that everyone was strongly encouraged to go as a team!

I'm not missing the point. The players were all from a catholic background. The hypothetical situation you describe didn't occur. If it had, I'm sure it would have been dealt with in the proper manner. MH would of course have been aware of the situation and adjusted accordingly. He is there to build bonds and win matches, not convert people to catholicism.

At the end of the day, this was something willingly partaken in by a group of people comfortable with the environment they were in. What we now have is people outside that environment theorising about what took place, or could have took place, or how players probably weren't comfortable but weren't able to say anything....none of which I believe for a second.

And of course, it could be noted that if there was an issue the captain should surely be the person to bring that up with the management team at the time. Instead he sniped about it later, and hasn't chosen to point out that everyone seemed satisfied with the arrangement (if there'd been any murmurings you can bet he'd have written about them!)


You don't know that to be the case yet your saying others are theorising, surely you're just doing the same. I doubt very much that 30 odd twentysomethings in any Gaelic football squad are practicing Catholics and believe in God. Personally I'd be very annoyed in that was asked of me in a team setting and I think many younger players/fringe players etc. would feel they may not be able to raise their concerns. Harte is in a position of Tyrone GAA authority and a religious man himself, he shouldn't have mixed them together. It was totally out of order IMO.

There hasn't been the slightest murmurings of complaint from those who have ever partaken. Many of these have also left the panel now, so aren't restricted by the fear of MH that some posters would have you believe. So in the absence of a shred of evidence to the contrary, despite ample resources and time for such to be found, I think I'm entitled to form the opinion noone had an issue with it.

I agree completely that they are all very unlikey to be practicing catholics - the point the rest of the post made is that, when brought up as a catholic, you still partake in rituals when it suits - weddings, funerals, christmas, easter - without it costing you a thought. I think the same relevance should be placed on this ritual (i.e. not that much).

Good post which is very accurate.  Additionally, I doubt there are many top protestant forwards in Tyrone that we are missing out on.  I would be interested to see how many protestants are actually playing club football in Tyrone or any other of the counties in the North.

This attitude is a complete joke.  You need to wake up to yourself. 

Imagine the same conversation on the OWC forum.  "Sure what odds if Glentorinfield bring in Pastor James McConnell before the games for a prayer service.  There aren't too many Catholics playing in the Irish League and most of them play for Cliftonville anyway". This is what we call institutional sectarianism. 

What part of this don't you understand? It is not the players that you are currently missing out on in Tyrone - it is the long term perception of the GAA as an exclusively catholic organisation.  This applies as much to lapsed catholic families in Dublin, to protestants in the North, to Muslims in Ballyhaunis or to a catholics themselves that aren't comfortable with religion being brought into the changing room. 

It is also a concern that Mickey Harte's perception of the GAA is exclusively catholic, so much so, that he takes this approach.

Wise up.  Institutional sectarianism - good one.  The fact of the matter is that most GAA players are catholic.  Very few protestants play and I don't see that changing.  Do I have any issue with them playing?  Of course not, it would be great if it was more welcoming to protestants and became more inclusive.  However, in this case that you are getting your knickers in a twist over, a manager has taken his team to mass before games.  Harte knows the makeup of his squad, which I assume is all catholic, therefore he has done what he has done on this basis.  I doubt he would have arranged this if the squad had members of other faiths included.  I'm sure a lot of fellas didn't really want to go, moreso because they couldn't be bothered rather than the fact that they are extremely offended.  They had a choice still.  I am Catholic, but its been a long time since I was at mass, really because I have other things I would rather do.  If I was in the squad, I wouldn't have wanted to go but I probably would have went as it is no big deal and I've been hundreds of times before.  As Haranguerer said, you partake in rituals when the need arises - weddings, funerals, Christmas, Easter etc, without it costing you a thought.  I'm sure the players that attended went without much mulling over required, its only mass after all.

Look I'm a Mickey Harte supporter. I wouldn't want anyone else in there managing Tyrone for the time being as I think he's the best at what he does. But I can't agree with this attitude.
It's not about whether there is a fantastic Protestant playing out there at the  minute that we're missing out on. It's the perception that the Tyrone team is all catholic and that it is part of the culture. The knock on effect of that is that some protestants that were maybe thinking of playing, or parents of children who were thinking of sending their children to football in Tyrone may have second thoughts given this perceived culture. You could argue that it wasn't going to happy anyway, but that doesn't matter, as long as we aren't creating a barrier to it happening. So it's not about who we might be missing out on now, but who we may be missing out on in the future by creating this image.

I think that's a very reasonable post. I'm just surprised more people don't see it that way too.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Jinxy on September 17, 2018, 02:13:15 PM
It's mad that this is even up for debate in 2018.
Believe what you want to believe, that's your business.
Don't make it anyone else's.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: befair on September 17, 2018, 02:13:39 PM
The game is taken too serious. Players devote most of their lives, even to club football. ROared on by a demented manager making a name for himself and a brown envelope in his back pocket, getting boys to climb redwood trees and pulling monster trucks in the chapel car park. Players end up doing anything to gain success and lose sight of what's fair, honourable and sportsmanlike. So we end up with lads taken to hospital, broken jaws, lost teeth etc.

There is no outlet for your average club player, those who can't/won't devote the time/effort to play elite club football. No place for recreational football, just for the craic. Where the stakes are low, and boys are lining out for the enjoyment, to stay fit and the comradeship.

The GAA go on about the drop off after minor level. The main reason for it isn't lack of interest in the game. It's that people just can't commit to crazy schedules just to play club football.

+1000

My son is just starting off in the game - for a couple of medical reasons he is probably never going to trouble Brian Fenton's place on the Dublin team, but I would love if he could just have it as a past time to knock around with his friends. I doubt that is going to happen and I think the drop off will come a lot quicker as things get a lot more competitive when they hit the teen years.

These posts are absolutely right. The Underdogs episode last week encapsulated exactly where gaelic football has gone wrong. All the emphasis was on physical conditioning, rather than skills; it's like they were selecting a team of commandos. It's an amateur sport, and these extreme levels of fitness are not necessary for good health; but because one team is doing it, everyone has to do it. We're running to stand still and the joy and pleasure of playing football has been lost
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: trileacman on September 17, 2018, 02:31:13 PM
It's mad that this is even up for debate in 2018.
Believe what you want to believe, that's your business.
Don't make it anyone else's.

Agreed.

So why are people insisting the Tyrone panel shouldn’t go mass as a group if that’s there wishes?
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Jinxy on September 17, 2018, 02:44:34 PM
Do you genuinely believe all the Tyrone players want to go to mass and say the rosary etc.?
And if the answer is 'No', then do you think any individual player would feel free to opt out?
I went to mass every Sunday when I was a child.
NEVER wanted to be there and when I said it to my parents later in life they said, "Sure no one was forcing you to go".
Technically that's true, but if the assumption has always been that you will go and everyone else is going too, are you likely to turn around to your parents and say, "Actually, I don't fancy this religion stuff at all".
There is an implicit power imbalance here.
All the power resides with Mickey Harte in this equation.
If you made the panel after slogging your guts out and you're desperately trying to break into the first XV, are you going to turn around to Mickey and say, "Count me out of this stuff"?
Mickey may well be fine with that, but that's not the point.
You're presenting the player with a difficult choice he should never have to make about something that has absolutely nothing to do with sport.
Would you take the risk that opting out of mass, the rosary etc. will put a black mark against your name?
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Fionntamhnach on September 17, 2018, 02:54:48 PM
Would be some craic if the next Tyrone senior mens football manager after Mickey Harte is a Jehovas Witness where all members of the playing panel get free monthly copies of The Watchtower and are asked from time to time to accompany him (or her) going around knocking on people's doors.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: haranguerer on September 17, 2018, 03:02:35 PM
It's mad that this is even up for debate in 2018.
Believe what you want to believe, that's your business.
Don't make it anyone else's.

No-one disagrees with this on this thread.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: five points on September 17, 2018, 03:05:41 PM
Do you genuinely believe all the Tyrone players want to go to mass and say the rosary etc.?
And if the answer is 'No', then do you think any individual player would feel free to opt out?
I went to mass every Sunday when I was a child.
NEVER wanted to be there and when I said it to my parents later in life they said, "Sure no one was forcing you to go".
Technically that's true, but if the assumption has always been that you will go and everyone else is going too, are you likely to turn around to your parents and say, "Actually, I don't fancy this religion stuff at all".
There is an implicit power imbalance here.
All the power resides with Mickey Harte in this equation.
If you made the panel after slogging your guts out and you're desperately trying to break into the first XV, are you going to turn around to Mickey and say, "Count me out of this stuff"?
Mickey may well be fine with that, but that's not the point.
You're presenting the player with a difficult choice he should never have to make about something that has absolutely nothing to do with sport.
Would you take the risk that opting out of mass, the rosary etc. will put a black mark against your name?


That's funny. Sean Boylan did exactly the same with Meath and won 4 All Irelands doing it. They've won nothing since he was ousted.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/many-of-the-meath-team-had-gyms-then-they-were-called-farms-26212721.html

Quote
One big advantage we had at the time was that the routine changed little for many years. We had a kick around on Saturday evenings before all big games, attended Mass and went home to our own beds. Most of our matches were in Croke Park so Sunday was basically the same, whether the game was an early championship outing or the final.

Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: johnnycool on September 17, 2018, 03:09:29 PM
It's mad that this is even up for debate in 2018.
Believe what you want to believe, that's your business.
Don't make it anyone else's.

Agreed.

So why are people insisting the Tyrone panel shouldn’t go mass as a group if that’s there wishes?

How would you know that all these young men in their 20's want to go to mass enbloc?

I'd say that as a representative group for lads that age they are an outlier wrt attending Mass.

Would there be the potential for lads to feel pressure to attend Mass to keep the right side of management??

Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: trileacman on September 17, 2018, 03:13:34 PM
Thats false equivalence. A) you were a kid,  B) they were your parents who raised you, clothed you and looked out for you.

These are grown men and it regards playing county football for a mildly successful team managed by a man who is routinely under a barrage of criticism and scrutiny. Dozens of players and coaching staff have walked away from Harte and gone to be highly successful afterwards in life, football and work. I don’t t if any of these men are in a crisis as to whether mumbiling the rosary and daydreaming through mass is an affront to their deeply held beliefs. And even if it were I’d question the sanity of men who’d persevere through such a moral crisis for the reward of a mc Kenna cup match or 15 mins against Carlow in the qualifiers.

You’re making this a personal issue. Personally youve objections to it but your projecting your moral objections onto a Tyrone panel who’ve to date only ever expressed apathy and a sense of inconvenience to it.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Jinxy on September 17, 2018, 03:17:53 PM
Do you genuinely believe all the Tyrone players want to go to mass and say the rosary etc.?
And if the answer is 'No', then do you think any individual player would feel free to opt out?
I went to mass every Sunday when I was a child.
NEVER wanted to be there and when I said it to my parents later in life they said, "Sure no one was forcing you to go".
Technically that's true, but if the assumption has always been that you will go and everyone else is going too, are you likely to turn around to your parents and say, "Actually, I don't fancy this religion stuff at all".
There is an implicit power imbalance here.
All the power resides with Mickey Harte in this equation.
If you made the panel after slogging your guts out and you're desperately trying to break into the first XV, are you going to turn around to Mickey and say, "Count me out of this stuff"?
Mickey may well be fine with that, but that's not the point.
You're presenting the player with a difficult choice he should never have to make about something that has absolutely nothing to do with sport.
Would you take the risk that opting out of mass, the rosary etc. will put a black mark against your name?


That's funny. Sean Boylan did exactly the same with Meath and won 4 All Irelands doing it. They've won nothing since he was ousted.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/many-of-the-meath-team-had-gyms-then-they-were-called-farms-26212721.html

Quote
One big advantage we had at the time was that the routine changed little for many years. We had a kick around on Saturday evenings before all big games, attended Mass and went home to our own beds. Most of our matches were in Croke Park so Sunday was basically the same, whether the game was an early championship outing or the final.

a) I'd imagine all of those players were regular mass-goers, as most of the country was back then.
b) Regardless of that, I still don't agree with it.
'What we used to do' doesn't really cut the mustard as an argument.
The Captains don't kiss the bishops ring before games anymore and the mere idea that they ever did is laughable in this day and age.
Times change, attitudes change.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: five points on September 17, 2018, 03:27:14 PM

a) I'd imagine all of those players were regular mass-goers, as most of the country was back then.
b) Regardless of that, I still don't agree with it.
'What we used to do' doesn't really cut the mustard as an argument.
The Captains don't kiss the bishops ring before games anymore and the mere idea that they ever did is laughable in this day and age.
Times change, attitudes change.

Meath's success rate has certainly changed too.  :)
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: omaghjoe on September 17, 2018, 03:27:31 PM
Any other form of team bonding could easily be ridiculed if there wasnt complete universal buy in from every single team member. The simple fact of the matter is that it is open season on religion these days so everyone jumps on the bandwagon of slagging it off.

The fact is, its a team sport and the individual must give up part of himself which often means doing things that you wouldn't be fully be behind otherwise, for the simple goal of the greater good of the team.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Jinxy on September 17, 2018, 03:28:01 PM
Thats false equivalence. A) you were a kid,  B) they were your parents who raised you, clothed you and looked out for you.

These are grown men and it regards playing county football for a mildly successful team managed by a man who is routinely under a barrage of criticism and scrutiny. Dozens of players and coaching staff have walked away from Harte and gone to be highly successful afterwards in life, football and work. I don’t t if any of these men are in a crisis as to whether mumbiling the rosary and daydreaming through mass is an affront to their deeply held beliefs. And even if it were I’d question the sanity of men who’d persevere through such a moral crisis for the reward of a mc Kenna cup match or 15 mins against Carlow in the qualifiers.

You’re making this a personal issue. Personally youve objections to it but your projecting your moral objections onto a Tyrone panel who’ve to date only ever expressed apathy and a sense of inconvenience to it.

Look, I'm not blind to the fact that the landscape in Tyrone is a bit different when it comes to issues of religion, identity etc.
I can understand why people from your neck of the woods might think, 'Sure what's all the fuss about?'
There are far worse things in life than being compelled to sit in a church daydreaming for half an hour for the sake of team unity.
I go to plenty of funerals, weddings etc. to support my friends & family in times of happiness and sadness.
I don't take communion because I believe that would be incredibly hypocritical and also pretty disrespectful to those who genuinely believe.
My specific issue in the context of the Tyrone regime is the notion that players can freely opt in or out.
If they're going to mass and they want to go to mass, the best of luck to them.
If they're going to mass because they feel they've no choice in the matter, I think that's wrong.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: omaghjoe on September 17, 2018, 03:30:49 PM

a) I'd imagine all of those players were regular mass-goers, as most of the country was back then.
b) Regardless of that, I still don't agree with it.
'What we used to do' doesn't really cut the mustard as an argument.
The Captains don't kiss the bishops ring before games anymore and the mere idea that they ever did is laughable in this day and age.
Times change, attitudes change.

Meath's success rate has certainly changed too.  :)

Yeah the Celtic Tiger changed Meath from being a band of violence loving apes to money loving yuppies. They cant see how football would increase their house price or salary so it doesnt matter anymore.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Hound on September 17, 2018, 03:34:44 PM
How would you know that all these young men in their 20's want to go to mass enbloc?

I'd say that as a representative group for lads that age they are an outlier wrt attending Mass.

Would there be the potential for lads to feel pressure to attend Mass to keep the right side of management??
Going to mass because it might keep you on the right side of management is completely different from being forced to go to mass. There's plenty of adults who head home for the weekend and go to mass to keep on the right side of their parents, but never go when their parents aren't around!

There's absolutely no suggestion that Harte has ever not picked someone for not going to mass. In fact, there's plenty of evidence of him continuing to pick someone who's personal choices are completely at odds with catholic ethos.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: trileacman on September 17, 2018, 04:19:21 PM
Thats false equivalence. A) you were a kid,  B) they were your parents who raised you, clothed you and looked out for you.

These are grown men and it regards playing county football for a mildly successful team managed by a man who is routinely under a barrage of criticism and scrutiny. Dozens of players and coaching staff have walked away from Harte and gone to be highly successful afterwards in life, football and work. I don’t t if any of these men are in a crisis as to whether mumbiling the rosary and daydreaming through mass is an affront to their deeply held beliefs. And even if it were I’d question the sanity of men who’d persevere through such a moral crisis for the reward of a mc Kenna cup match or 15 mins against Carlow in the qualifiers.

You’re making this a personal issue. Personally youve objections to it but your projecting your moral objections onto a Tyrone panel who’ve to date only ever expressed apathy and a sense of inconvenience to it.

Look, I'm not blind to the fact that the landscape in Tyrone is a bit different when it comes to issues of religion, identity etc.
I can understand why people from your neck of the woods might think, 'Sure what's all the fuss about?'
There are far worse things in life than being compelled to sit in a church daydreaming for half an hour for the sake of team unity.
I go to plenty of funerals, weddings etc. to support my friends & family in times of happiness and sadness.
I don't take communion because I believe that would be incredibly hypocritical and also pretty disrespectful to those who genuinely believe.
My specific issue in the context of the Tyrone regime is the notion that players can freely opt in or out.
If they're going to mass and they want to go to mass, the best of luck to them.
If they're going to mass because they feel they've no choice in the matter, I think that's wrong.

What if some of them are going to mass because they want to go to mass and the rest, about half of them are going to support their friends and management just like yourself at weddings/funerals and do so with a sense of respect for the faith of their friends. Like if Harte and the religious players, who there are undoubtedly a few of, are  saying “lads it would mean a lot to us if we could go to mass as a group and say an odd rosary after a match” would you be the man to say “f**k that I’m dead against it or would you say “ara it’s all a load of makey up bollix but sure I’ll go along with it if it’s what the group want to do.”

There’s this ridiculous suggestion that there’s a cell of Tyrone players or potential players who are militant atheists  for whom the attendance at mass stands as a contradiction to their most sincerely held beliefs which they are forgoing for the “glory” of being a Tyrone player.

They’re a few lapsed catholics going along with the flow, it’s not lads gang-pressed in chains up to the face of the alter.



Also less of the “your neck of the woods” stuff, that’s a subconscious derogatory suggestion that rabid fundamental Catholicism is still the centre point of a “backwater” like Tyrone.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Jinxy on September 17, 2018, 04:26:11 PM
Here comes the persecution complex.
Surprised it took this long.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: omaghjoe on September 17, 2018, 04:41:08 PM
Here comes the persecution complex.
Surprised it took this long.

He's bang on.

Where was the persecution complex?
You obviously have the mindset that Tyrone have that complex so you just roll out that line when you don't want or can't counter
 ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: tonto1888 on September 17, 2018, 04:53:10 PM
Here comes the persecution complex.
Surprised it took this long.

He's bang on.

Where was the persecution complex?
You obviously have the mindset that Tyrone have that complex so you just roll out that line when you don't want or can't counter
 ::) ::) ::)

I would imagine he means the last paragraph. And he would be right
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: omaghjoe on September 17, 2018, 05:02:53 PM
Here comes the persecution complex.
Surprised it took this long.

He's bang on.

Where was the persecution complex?
You obviously have the mindset that Tyrone have that complex so you just roll out that line when you don't want or can't counter
 ::) ::) ::)

I would imagine he means the last paragraph. And he would be right

FFS he was rebuffing a point that he had made there was no inferiority complex unless he was looking to set it up himself as a way out of the discussion

If I said that the popularity of Buckfast in Armagh was down to it being such a dire shithole would you just let the point go?
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: westbound on September 17, 2018, 05:03:49 PM

'Your neck of the woods" is a subconscious derogatory term now is it?   :o

And I thought the split dublin thread was gone ridiculous!  ::)
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: HiMucker on September 17, 2018, 05:25:20 PM
Jesus some of the Tyronies have gone ultra defensive, not surprising! Fair play to you Jinxy I wouldn't have wasted as much time on it. If you cant see what is wrong with it then I don't know. I don't think Harte is doing anything that controversial, it just shouldn't be done in this day and age when all work places, clubs whatever are trying to be inclusive. The Tyrone senior team is a shop front for the GAA in Tyrone and the country, and whether we like it or not the GAA would be seen as a cold house for some and things like this don't help. It might not make a blind bit of difference to participation now or in 5 years but that's not the point. It could make a difference a generation down the line, and how the same people who would rightly criticise the IFA or other institutions cant see that is confusing. I have made the same point about club masses. There is just no need for them anymore.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: tonto1888 on September 17, 2018, 06:13:40 PM
Here comes the persecution complex.
Surprised it took this long.

He's bang on.

Where was the persecution complex?
You obviously have the mindset that Tyrone have that complex so you just roll out that line when you don't want or can't counter
 ::) ::) ::)

I would imagine he means the last paragraph. And he would be right

FFS he was rebuffing a point that he had made there was no inferiority complex unless he was looking to set it up himself as a way out of the discussion

If I said that the popularity of Buckfast in Armagh was down to it being such a dire shithole would you just let the point go?

The popularity of buckfast in Armagh is because we have good taste. Armagh being a shithole has nothing to do with t ;)

I assumed yer mans problem with Jinxys post was the in your neck of the wooods bit. Maybe I was wrong
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: twohands!!! on September 17, 2018, 06:34:59 PM
The religious stuff is disgusting carry-on by Harte.

Complete abuse of his position.

 
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: omaghjoe on September 17, 2018, 06:55:21 PM
Here comes the persecution complex.
Surprised it took this long.

He's bang on.

Where was the persecution complex?
You obviously have the mindset that Tyrone have that complex so you just roll out that line when you don't want or can't counter
 ::) ::) ::)

I would imagine he means the last paragraph. And he would be right

FFS he was rebuffing a point that he had made there was no inferiority complex unless he was looking to set it up himself as a way out of the discussion

If I said that the popularity of Buckfast in Armagh was down to it being such a dire shithole would you just let the point go?

The popularity of buckfast in Armagh is because we have good taste. Armagh being a shithole has nothing to do with t ;)

I assumed yer mans problem with Jinxys post was the in your neck of the wooods bit. Maybe I was wrong

Thats entirely my point...

Tyrone has an identity problem therefore displays of religion are more acceptable there
=
Armagh is a shithole therefore they need to drink cheap fortified wine

Retorted by...
Behind the scenes prayer before a match has nothing to do with the level of geographical acceptability of religion.
=
Buckfast popularity in Armagh is nothing to do with it being a shithole.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: trileacman on September 17, 2018, 07:00:47 PM
Here comes the persecution complex.
Surprised it took this long.

A trite response.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: BennyCake on September 17, 2018, 07:22:48 PM
Would be some craic if the next Tyrone senior mens football manager after Mickey Harte is a Jehovas Witness where all members of the playing panel get free monthly copies of The Watchtower and are asked from time to time to accompany him (or her) going around knocking on people's doors.

How many Bob Dylan tracks did everyone else spot here? :D
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: BennyCake on September 17, 2018, 07:26:21 PM
Do you genuinely believe all the Tyrone players want to go to mass and say the rosary etc.?
And if the answer is 'No', then do you think any individual player would feel free to opt out?
I went to mass every Sunday when I was a child.
NEVER wanted to be there and when I said it to my parents later in life they said, "Sure no one was forcing you to go".
Technically that's true, but if the assumption has always been that you will go and everyone else is going too, are you likely to turn around to your parents and say, "Actually, I don't fancy this religion stuff at all".
There is an implicit power imbalance here.
All the power resides with Mickey Harte in this equation.
If you made the panel after slogging your guts out and you're desperately trying to break into the first XV, are you going to turn around to Mickey and say, "Count me out of this stuff"?
Mickey may well be fine with that, but that's not the point.
You're presenting the player with a difficult choice he should never have to make about something that has absolutely nothing to do with sport.
Would you take the risk that opting out of mass, the rosary etc. will put a black mark against your name?


That's funny. Sean Boylan did exactly the same with Meath and won 4 All Irelands doing it. They've won nothing since he was ousted.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/many-of-the-meath-team-had-gyms-then-they-were-called-farms-26212721.html

Quote
One big advantage we had at the time was that the routine changed little for many years. We had a kick around on Saturday evenings before all big games, attended Mass and went home to our own beds. Most of our matches were in Croke Park so Sunday was basically the same, whether the game was an early championship outing or the final.

a) I'd imagine all of those players were regular mass-goers, as most of the country was back then.
b) Regardless of that, I still don't agree with it.
'What we used to do' doesn't really cut the mustard as an argument.
The Captains don't kiss the bishops ring before games anymore and the mere idea that they ever did is laughable in this day and age.
Times change, attitudes change.

Jaysus thon was a weird tradition alright
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: redzone on September 17, 2018, 07:29:40 PM
Rosary was said 2/3 times altogether. Cavanagh making fools out yous
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: BennyCake on September 17, 2018, 07:32:12 PM
The religious stuff is disgusting carry-on by Harte.

Complete abuse of his position.

As was him meeting the players after Tyrone being knocked out to discuss future plans, before his contract was renewed.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: redzone on September 17, 2018, 07:45:26 PM
Jesus benny you are on one man crusade against Harte. Christ get a life. Do something productive with your time instead stalking the board
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Insane Bolt on September 17, 2018, 08:26:46 PM
Hope Sean has a speedy recovery.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: BennyCake on September 17, 2018, 09:06:47 PM
Jesus benny you are on one man crusade against Harte. Christ get a life. Do something productive with your time instead stalking the board

One post about Harte = one man crusade? Riiiighhht  :o
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Jinxy on September 17, 2018, 09:46:03 PM
Peter Canavan believes there is an 'agenda' against the Red Hand county

"I do believe that Tyrone are on the receiving end whenever there is negativity attached to gaelic games. It appears to be pointed up in this direction pretty quickly. I would say there is an agenda going on in that regard," he said.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/peter-canavan-believes-there-is-an-agenda-against-the-red-hand-county-as-tyrone-gaa-condemn-unwarranted-violence-37325340.html (https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/peter-canavan-believes-there-is-an-agenda-against-the-red-hand-county-as-tyrone-gaa-condemn-unwarranted-violence-37325340.html)
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: omaghjoe on September 17, 2018, 11:02:06 PM
Jesus some of the Tyronies have gone ultra defensive, not surprising! Fair play to you Jinxy I wouldn't have wasted as much time on it. If you cant see what is wrong with it then I don't know. I don't think Harte is doing anything that controversial, it just shouldn't be done in this day and age when all work places, clubs whatever are trying to be inclusive. The Tyrone senior team is a shop front for the GAA in Tyrone and the country, and whether we like it or not the GAA would be seen as a cold house for some and things like this don't help. It might not make a blind bit of difference to participation now or in 5 years but that's not the point. It could make a difference a generation down the line, and how the same people who would rightly criticise the IFA or other institutions cant see that is confusing. I have made the same point about club masses. There is just no need for them anymore.


Where was the outcry about learning the National Anthem in Irish? I would say that most Protestants would find that far more offensive than saying a prayer to what would be the same God. I know I would it far more offensive to have to stand for God Save the Queen while playing soccer for Northern Ireland (and plenty of Nationalists do it NP.) than I would for joining them in a private prayer.

FFS James McClean is offended to wear a poppy and every green Tom Dick and Harry in the wee6 thinks he's a great fella

And if your lapsed atheist or agnostic there is literally nothing to be offended by, At worst is a waste of 2/3mins. And sure tons of them waste most of their season waiting around on the bench.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: screenexile on September 17, 2018, 11:27:46 PM
Heard from a few sources today that the Cavanagh incident was accidental and straight in front of the referee... I wonder will all the moral crusaders like MacKenna/Kimmage and their ilk retract what they’ve said??

Sean’s tweet was very cryptic... would he have had a book out recently??
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Never beat the deeler on September 18, 2018, 03:09:46 AM
Heard from a few sources today that the Cavanagh incident was accidental and straight in front of the referee... I wonder will all the moral crusaders like MacKenna/Kimmage and their ilk retract what they’ve said??

Sean’s tweet was very cryptic... would he have had a book out recently??

Well when the evidence is as clear cut as you have outlined, I don't see how they can do anything other than retract
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: BennyHarp on September 18, 2018, 07:42:03 AM
Heard from a few sources today that the Cavanagh incident was accidental and straight in front of the referee... I wonder will all the moral crusaders like MacKenna/Kimmage and their ilk retract what they’ve said??

Sean’s tweet was very cryptic... would he have had a book out recently??

Well when the evidence is as clear cut as you have outlined, I don't see how they can do anything other than retract

It’s strange how so many people on here seem to genuinely want this to be a non accidental act of thuggery. I wonder why?
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: seafoid on September 18, 2018, 07:43:35 AM
Peter Canavan believes there is an 'agenda' against the Red Hand county

"I do believe that Tyrone are on the receiving end whenever there is negativity attached to gaelic games. It appears to be pointed up in this direction pretty quickly. I would say there is an agenda going on in that regard," he said.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/peter-canavan-believes-there-is-an-agenda-against-the-red-hand-county-as-tyrone-gaa-condemn-unwarranted-violence-37325340.html (https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/peter-canavan-believes-there-is-an-agenda-against-the-red-hand-county-as-tyrone-gaa-condemn-unwarranted-violence-37325340.html)

There is an academic explanation for how Tyrone do it. Caravan whining is par for the course.


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/17/science-behind-brexit-vote-trump
“Tight cultures have strong norms and little tolerance for deviance, while loose cultures are the opposite.

A discovery I and my team published in Science is that the strength of a culture’s norms isn’t random. Though they were separated by miles, and in some cases centuries, tight cultures as diverse as Sparta and Singapore have something in common: each faced (or faces) a high degree of threat, whether from Mother Nature – disasters, diseases, and food scarcity – or human nature – the chaos caused by invasions and internal conflicts.

Analysing hundreds of hunter-gatherer groups, as well as nation-states including the Aztecs and Incas, we found that cultures that experienced existential threats, such as famine and warfare, favoured strong norms and autocratic leaders. Our computer models show a similar effect: threat leads to the evolution of tightness.”
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: BennyHarp on September 18, 2018, 08:09:59 AM
Peter Canavan believes there is an 'agenda' against the Red Hand county

"I do believe that Tyrone are on the receiving end whenever there is negativity attached to gaelic games. It appears to be pointed up in this direction pretty quickly. I would say there is an agenda going on in that regard," he said.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/peter-canavan-believes-there-is-an-agenda-against-the-red-hand-county-as-tyrone-gaa-condemn-unwarranted-violence-37325340.html (https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/peter-canavan-believes-there-is-an-agenda-against-the-red-hand-county-as-tyrone-gaa-condemn-unwarranted-violence-37325340.html)

There is an academic explanation for how Tyrone do it. Caravan whining is par for the course.


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/17/science-behind-brexit-vote-trump
“Tight cultures have strong norms and little tolerance for deviance, while loose cultures are the opposite.

A discovery I and my team published in Science is that the strength of a culture’s norms isn’t random. Though they were separated by miles, and in some cases centuries, tight cultures as diverse as Sparta and Singapore have something in common: each faced (or faces) a high degree of threat, whether from Mother Nature – disasters, diseases, and food scarcity – or human nature – the chaos caused by invasions and internal conflicts.

Analysing hundreds of hunter-gatherer groups, as well as nation-states including the Aztecs and Incas, we found that cultures that experienced existential threats, such as famine and warfare, favoured strong norms and autocratic leaders. Our computer models show a similar effect: threat leads to the evolution of tightness.”

I see what you did there. Classic.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: haranguerer on September 18, 2018, 08:18:48 AM
Heard from a few sources today that the Cavanagh incident was accidental and straight in front of the referee... I wonder will all the moral crusaders like MacKenna/Kimmage and their ilk retract what they’ve said??

Sean’s tweet was very cryptic... would he have had a book out recently??

Well when the evidence is as clear cut as you have outlined, I don't see how they can do anything other than retract

It’s strange how so many people on here seem to genuinely want this to be a non accidental act of thuggery. I wonder why?

You've got it the other way round - clearly many want it to be deliberate to back up valid points they've made re violence in the game. I'm not comfortable with the likes of matt cooper posting the photo of Cavanagh as evidence of that, when at the very least it is heavily disputed that that incident (unlike others in the game), was not deliberate. 'The other player involved didn't even get a card' is also a highly dubious statement, and seems to me an attempt to turn evidence that perhaps it wasn't deliberate into a calculated smearing of the referee.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: BennyHarp on September 18, 2018, 08:47:48 AM
Heard from a few sources today that the Cavanagh incident was accidental and straight in front of the referee... I wonder will all the moral crusaders like MacKenna/Kimmage and their ilk retract what they’ve said??

Sean’s tweet was very cryptic... would he have had a book out recently??

Well when the evidence is as clear cut as you have outlined, I don't see how they can do anything other than retract

It’s strange how so many people on here seem to genuinely want this to be a non accidental act of thuggery. I wonder why?

You've got it the other way round - clearly many want it to be deliberate to back up valid points they've made re violence in the game. I'm not comfortable with the likes of matt cooper posting the photo of Cavanagh as evidence of that, when at the very least it is heavily disputed that that incident (unlike others in the game), was not deliberate. 'The other player involved didn't even get a card' is also a highly dubious statement, and seems to me an attempt to turn evidence that perhaps it wasn't deliberate into a calculated smearing of the referee.

That's my point - possibly not very well written though.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Never beat the deeler on September 18, 2018, 09:21:52 AM
Heard from a few sources today that the Cavanagh incident was accidental and straight in front of the referee... I wonder will all the moral crusaders like MacKenna/Kimmage and their ilk retract what they’ve said??

Sean’s tweet was very cryptic... would he have had a book out recently??

Well when the evidence is as clear cut as you have outlined, I don't see how they can do anything other than retract

It’s strange how so many people on here seem to genuinely want this to be a non accidental act of thuggery. I wonder why?

I think you must have quoted the wrong post
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: BennyHarp on September 18, 2018, 10:15:36 AM
Heard from a few sources today that the Cavanagh incident was accidental and straight in front of the referee... I wonder will all the moral crusaders like MacKenna/Kimmage and their ilk retract what they’ve said??

Sean’s tweet was very cryptic... would he have had a book out recently??

Well when the evidence is as clear cut as you have outlined, I don't see how they can do anything other than retract

It’s strange how so many people on here seem to genuinely want this to be a non accidental act of thuggery. I wonder why?

I think you must have quoted the wrong post

My apologies then.... clearly, I wrongly assumed you were being sarcastic.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Smokin Joe on September 18, 2018, 10:47:01 AM
Presumably a video clip of the incident will appear sooner rather than later? I'm led to believe that the game was recorded and as Cavanagh had the ball in his hands when the incident happened you would presume it'll have been caught pretty clearly.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Owen Brannigan on September 18, 2018, 03:32:07 PM
The Cavanagh photo was obviously taken and published by himself. It was made deliberately to look worse by doing very little to clean up his face of dried blood before the photo was taken. There appeared to be no broken skin and the blood would therefore have come from the alleged break in his nose.

In other words it was another piece of self promotion to enhance the claims of victimhood in his book.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: blewuporstuffed on September 18, 2018, 03:35:12 PM
Presumably a video clip of the incident will appear sooner rather than later? I'm led to believe that the game was recorded and as Cavanagh had the ball in his hands when the incident happened you would presume it'll have been caught pretty clearly.

All Tyrone  championship games are recorded by the county board
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Rossfan on September 18, 2018, 03:36:41 PM
The Cavanagh photo was obviously taken and published by himself. It was made deliberately to look worse by doing very little to clean up his face of dried blood before the photo was taken. There appeared to be no broken skin and the blood would therefore have come from the alleged break in his nose.

In other words it was another piece of self promotion to enhance the claims of victimhood in his book.

Sure maybe he bet himself up ::)
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Jinxy on September 18, 2018, 03:54:39 PM
Sounds like he walked into a door...
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: omaghjoe on September 18, 2018, 04:34:34 PM
The Cavanagh photo was obviously taken and published by himself. It was made deliberately to look worse by doing very little to clean up his face of dried blood before the photo was taken. There appeared to be no broken skin and the blood would therefore have come from the alleged break in his nose.

In other words it was another piece of self promotion to enhance the claims of victimhood in his book.

So by doing nothing to his face he was deliberately making it look worse?
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Jim Bob on September 18, 2018, 05:34:55 PM
The Cavanagh photo was obviously taken and published by himself. It was made deliberately to look worse by doing very little to clean up his face of dried blood before the photo was taken. There appeared to be no broken skin and the blood would therefore have come from the alleged break in his nose.

In other words it was another piece of self promotion to enhance the claims of victimhood in his book.
E past
 Wise up!!! You know nothing about the incident. Obviously Cavanagh’s talents has affected your county in the past. Let me guess.... Armagh?
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: trailer on September 18, 2018, 06:18:46 PM
The Cavanagh photo was obviously taken and published by himself. It was made deliberately to look worse by doing very little to clean up his face of dried blood before the photo was taken. There appeared to be no broken skin and the blood would therefore have come from the alleged break in his nose.

In other words it was another piece of self promotion to enhance the claims of victimhood in his book.

He didn't post the picture. But please continue to spout uninformed shite.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Syferus on September 18, 2018, 06:34:54 PM
Embarassing. It’s amazing to watch how fast Sean Cavanagh, perhaps the best player to ever wear a Tyrone jersey, became public enemy number one after breaking the Tyrone omertà.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: bennydorano on September 18, 2018, 06:55:33 PM
This whole thread has turned farcical, the Tyronie Civil War gathers pace.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Owen Brannigan on September 18, 2018, 07:29:49 PM
The Cavanagh photo was obviously taken and published by himself. It was made deliberately to look worse by doing very little to clean up his face of dried blood before the photo was taken. There appeared to be no broken skin and the blood would therefore have come from the alleged break in his nose.

In other words it was another piece of self promotion to enhance the claims of victimhood in his book.

He didn't post the picture. But please continue to spout uninformed shite.

So, he didn't take it either?
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: omaghjoe on September 18, 2018, 08:41:55 PM
The Cavanagh photo was obviously taken and published by himself. It was made deliberately to look worse by doing very little to clean up his face of dried blood before the photo was taken. There appeared to be no broken skin and the blood would therefore have come from the alleged break in his nose.

In other words it was another piece of self promotion to enhance the claims of victimhood in his book.

He didn't post the picture. But please continue to spout uninformed shite.

So, he didn't take it either?

Armagh lads were usually half decent at the wind up, must be living in Tyrone so long that turned ye into a blundering culchie ;)
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Champion The Wonder Horse on September 18, 2018, 09:20:32 PM
Embarassing. It’s amazing to watch how fast Sean Cavanagh, perhaps the best player to ever wear a Tyrone jersey, became public enemy number one after breaking the Tyrone omertà.

He's not though.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: JoG2 on September 18, 2018, 09:22:31 PM
Embarassing. It’s amazing to watch how fast Sean Cavanagh, perhaps the best player to ever wear a Tyrone jersey, became public enemy number one after breaking the Tyrone omertà.

He's not though.

Has obviously never heard of big Plunkett Donaghey  ;D
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: BennyHarp on September 18, 2018, 09:37:10 PM
Embarassing. It’s amazing to watch how fast Sean Cavanagh, perhaps the best player to ever wear a Tyrone jersey, became public enemy number one after breaking the Tyrone omertà.

He's not though.

He’s not public enemy number one either.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Champion The Wonder Horse on September 18, 2018, 09:43:27 PM
Embarassing. It’s amazing to watch how fast Sean Cavanagh, perhaps the best player to ever wear a Tyrone jersey, became public enemy number one after breaking the Tyrone omertà.

He's not though.

He’s not public enemy number one either.

Where did I say he was?

Brilliant thread though.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: BennyHarp on September 18, 2018, 10:00:50 PM
Embarassing. It’s amazing to watch how fast Sean Cavanagh, perhaps the best player to ever wear a Tyrone jersey, became public enemy number one after breaking the Tyrone omertà.

He's not though.

He’s not public enemy number one either.

Where did I say he was?

Brilliant thread though.

Sorry, I was referring to the post you quoted.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Puckoon on September 18, 2018, 10:13:28 PM
Some cynical commentary on here at best, pathetic at worst.

I am glad the term True Gael has been retired around these parts. To Quote Cahir O'Kane in the IN referring to Sean Kelly's tweet

He may well be proven right in time. But how much did he actually know about the incident before he took such a staunch position on it?

Clearly many posters on here know everything about the incident, and the aftermath. I hope it was an accident, and I hope the book is thrown at those who encroached the field of play on Friday night in Healy Park also. What more can you say?

There's long been a culture of thuggery in the games unfortunately - it isn't unique to Tyrone, Sean Cavanagh, or Ulster.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Jinxy on September 18, 2018, 10:36:02 PM
If I'd accidentally inflicted those injuries on an opponent, I would have gone out of my way to apologise.
Sometimes that isn't possible at the time (ambulance etc.) but I'd like to think I'd give him a ring the day after to see how he was getting on.
Sean obviously doesn't feel this was an accident.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: yellowcard on September 18, 2018, 11:27:39 PM
If I'd accidentally inflicted those injuries on an opponent, I would have gone out of my way to apologise.
Sometimes that isn't possible at the time (ambulance etc.) but I'd like to think I'd give him a ring the day after to see how he was getting on.
Sean obviously doesn't feel this was an accident.

Very true. Do we know if he definitely has not made an attempt at an apology?

It wouldn’t be too hard for the player in question to get Cavanaghs phone number!!
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Owen Brannigan on September 19, 2018, 07:23:42 AM

Clearly many posters on here know everything about the incident, and the aftermath. I hope it was an accident, and I hope the book is thrown at those who encroached the field of play on Friday night in Healy Park also. What more can you say?

That's the problem, the authorities will say but not do anything.  Watch how many motions come to congress about all sorts of issues but virtually none will propose a rule change to eject clubs from competitions for such violence on the field or make clubs responsible for actions of supporters coming on to the field to join or initiate the violence

There's long been a culture of thuggery in the games unfortunately - it isn't unique to Tyrone, Sean Cavanagh, or Ulster.

Not unique to Tyrone but no one can argue that violence is not endemic in the club game, not always the mass brawl or supporters on and off the field but violent attacks on the individual are very common.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Brick Tamlin on September 19, 2018, 10:30:00 AM
On the Nolan show now.
Call me cynical but this guy is milking it for book sales.
Saint Sean, squeaky clean and wholesome.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: lenny on September 19, 2018, 12:24:12 PM
On the Nolan show now.
Call me cynical but this guy is milking it for book sales.
Saint Sean, squeaky clean and wholesome.

Can’t understand him at all. You’d nearly think he’s trying to cash in while people still remember him as a great county player.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: screenexile on September 19, 2018, 07:39:46 PM
On the Nolan show now.
Call me cynical but this guy is milking it for book sales.
Saint Sean, squeaky clean and wholesome.

Can’t understand him at all. You’d nearly think he’s trying to cash in while people still remember him as a great county player.

No harm in it at all but let’s not pretend that it isn’t part of this whole situation!!
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: lenny on September 19, 2018, 08:07:58 PM
On the Nolan show now.
Call me cynical but this guy is milking it for book sales.
Saint Sean, squeaky clean and wholesome.

Can’t understand him at all. You’d nearly think he’s trying to cash in while people still remember him as a great county player.

No harm in it at all but let’s not pretend that it isn’t part of this whole situation!!

Of course it is. I’ve heard him mentioned on radio and tv today about 10 times. This is bound to help boost sales of his book so he’s quite happy to go on every show going.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: trailer on September 19, 2018, 08:24:05 PM
Sportsperson writes book. Sportsperson promotes book. Jesus you lot didn't take into Kieran Donaghy or The Gooch when they were doing the same, but yerra it's Kerry and aren't they lovable cute hoors, yerra.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Brick Tamlin on September 20, 2018, 10:59:18 AM
Those are 3 different personalities completely.
Cavanagh strikes me as a gurnin bastid of the highest order.
He has little or no loyalty too; only out of that Tyrone setup a wet weekend and already mouthin off about everythin.
He has literally scattergunned all areas; Catholic Church & the GAA, Mickey Harte, Mental Health, gamesmanship and abuse in games.
Mighty mighty player but i think Joe Brolly may have been right.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: TabClear on September 20, 2018, 11:03:08 AM
Those are 3 different personalities completely.
Cavanagh strikes me as a gurnin bastid of the highest order.
He has little or no loyalty too; only out of that Tyrone setup a wet weekend and already mouthin off about everythin.
He has literally scattergunned all areas; Catholic Church & the GAA, Mickey Harte, Mental Health, gamesmanship and abuse in games.
Mighty mighty player but i think Joe Brolly may have been right.

That's just crazy talk, does not matter what subject  ;)
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Aristo 60 on September 20, 2018, 11:14:06 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6JAJVAGC9M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6JAJVAGC9M)

Book sales, book sales, book sales.

Would love to see the email from the publicist telling him to get as much exposure as possible over the next 2.5 months. God, the Edendork lad has done him some favour.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Ty4Sam on September 20, 2018, 11:28:53 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6JAJVAGC9M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6JAJVAGC9M)

Book sales, book sales, book sales.

Would love to see the email from the publicist telling him to get as much exposure as possible over the next 2.5 months. God, the Edendork lad has done him some favour.

In hindsight, a very good point!
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Bud Wiser on September 20, 2018, 12:57:42 PM
I haven't been here for a while and I am glad I no longer subscribe to the vitriol spewed out here every day by keyboard warriors hiding behind fancy handles.  I have great time for Tyrone and Armagh, none more so than when we did the golf classic for the Cormac Trust Fund and the nicest of lads drove down and supported it from Crossmaglen and Tyrone.  I don't know Sean Kavanagh but I do know that the likes of him and Brian Dooher, Canavan and the rest of that era put their heart and soul into Tyrone.  It is obvious from some of the posts here that a few of you have been waiting in the long grass for the first chance from behind your false names to ridicule a man who is first and foremost a GAA man who has wife and family who are exposed to some of the diatribe coming from two posters in particular.  Don't buy Sean's book if you think it upsets you that much.  If you think he is not up to your standard you don't have to meet him, he won't go looking for you Im sure. If you are jealous that you haven't got the brains toi write a book of your own or the balls to write a book then that is nobody's fault only your own, don't use your venom to make public statements on here that will stay here for years even when you are gone to vilify someone else on some other board and Sean's sons or daughters have to read it.   
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Under Lights on September 20, 2018, 01:13:04 PM
I haven't been here for a while and I am glad I no longer subscribe to the vitriol spewed out here every day by keyboard warriors hiding behind fancy handles.  I have great time for Tyrone and Armagh, none more so than when we did the golf classic for the Cormac Trust Fund and the nicest of lads drove down and supported it from Crossmaglen and Tyrone.  I don't know Sean Kavanagh but I do know that the likes of him and Brian Dooher, Canavan and the rest of that era put their heart and soul into Tyrone.  It is obvious from some of the posts here that a few of you have been waiting in the long grass for the first chance from behind your false names to ridicule a man who is first and foremost a GAA man who has wife and family who are exposed to some of the diatribe coming from two posters in particular.  Don't buy Sean's book if you think it upsets you that much.  If you think he is not up to your standard you don't have to meet him, he won't go looking for you Im sure. If you are jealous that you haven't got the brains toi write a book of your own or the balls to write a book then that is nobody's fault only your own, don't use your venom to make public statements on here that will stay here for years even when you are gone to vilify someone else on some other board and Sean's sons or daughters have to read it.


Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: BennyCake on September 20, 2018, 02:19:12 PM
A couple of things:

- If it was a deliberate attack on Cavanagh, then fair enough. But he wouldn't have highlighted it if no book was in the shops.

- Secondly, if it was accidental, the Edendork fella will be put through the wringer big time. I just hope Cavanagh knew it was deliberate, otherwise Cavanagh is going to look like a right c**t if it was proved accidental.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Owen Brannigan on September 20, 2018, 02:24:05 PM
Sportsperson writes book. Sportsperson promotes book. Jesus you lot didn't take into Kieran Donaghy or The Gooch when they were doing the same, but yerra it's Kerry and aren't they lovable cute hoors, yerra.

I think you have hit it on the head. Cavanagh has never endeared himself, particularly as he hung on for another medal, to the general GAA loving public apart from a minority of people in Tyrone. 
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: bigpackiechestout on September 20, 2018, 02:26:11 PM
I haven't been here for a while and I am glad I no longer subscribe to the vitriol spewed out here every day by keyboard warriors hiding behind fancy handles.  I have great time for Tyrone and Armagh, none more so than when we did the golf classic for the Cormac Trust Fund and the nicest of lads drove down and supported it from Crossmaglen and Tyrone.  I don't know Sean Kavanagh but I do know that the likes of him and Brian Dooher, Canavan and the rest of that era put their heart and soul into Tyrone.  It is obvious from some of the posts here that a few of you have been waiting in the long grass for the first chance from behind your false names to ridicule a man who is first and foremost a GAA man who has wife and family who are exposed to some of the diatribe coming from two posters in particular.  Don't buy Sean's book if you think it upsets you that much.  If you think he is not up to your standard you don't have to meet him, he won't go looking for you Im sure. If you are jealous that you haven't got the brains toi write a book of your own or the balls to write a book then that is nobody's fault only your own, don't use your venom to make public statements on here that will stay here for years even when you are gone to vilify someone else on some other board and Sean's sons or daughters have to read it.

How can Sean Cavanagh have been a prominent figure in Irish Sport for almost 20 years, release a book and been a constant presence in the media for the past month, and STILL people spell his surname with a 'K'
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Owen Brannigan on September 20, 2018, 02:26:17 PM
Those are 3 different personalities completely.
Cavanagh strikes me as a gurnin bastid of the highest order.
He has little or no loyalty too; only out of that Tyrone setup a wet weekend and already mouthin off about everythin.
He has literally scattergunned all areas; Catholic Church & the GAA, Mickey Harte, Mental Health, gamesmanship and abuse in games.
Mighty mighty player but i think Joe Brolly may have been right.

Not often we agree but +1
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Owen Brannigan on September 20, 2018, 02:32:19 PM
A couple of things:

- If it was a deliberate attack on Cavanagh, then fair enough. But he wouldn't have highlighted it if no book was in the shops.

- Secondly, if it was accidental, the Edendork fella will be put through the wringer big time. I just hope Cavanagh knew it was deliberate, otherwise Cavanagh is going to look like a right c**t if it was proved accidental.

He has read your post.......

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/cavanagh-i-was-knocked-out-but-i-dont-know-if-it-was-deliberate-37335595.html (https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/cavanagh-i-was-knocked-out-but-i-dont-know-if-it-was-deliberate-37335595.html)
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Beffs on September 20, 2018, 02:34:32 PM
Sportsperson writes book. Sportsperson promotes book. Jesus you lot didn't take into Kieran Donaghy or The Gooch when they were doing the same, but yerra it's Kerry and aren't they lovable cute hoors, yerra.

Nail meet head.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Owen Brannigan on September 20, 2018, 02:36:33 PM
The Cavanagh photo was obviously taken and published by himself. It was made deliberately to look worse by doing very little to clean up his face of dried blood before the photo was taken. There appeared to be no broken skin and the blood would therefore have come from the alleged break in his nose.

In other words it was another piece of self promotion to enhance the claims of victimhood in his book.

He didn't post the picture. But please continue to spout uninformed shite.

I think you will find he took the picture himself and sent it on to a "friend" and doesn't know how it got on from there. ::) 

Read the article below.......

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/cavanagh-i-was-knocked-out-but-i-dont-know-if-it-was-deliberate-37335595.html (https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/cavanagh-i-was-knocked-out-but-i-dont-know-if-it-was-deliberate-37335595.html)
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Bud Wiser on September 20, 2018, 02:45:07 PM
@bigpackiechestout,
So that's what you took out of my post, that I spelt Kavanagh with a K rather than a C.   The point I was making was about the vitriol that people are spitting from behind false names.

Heres' one of your own posts from recently:   "Parkinson has a tendency to sneer and look down his nose at others which is very offputting. Take a quick look through his twitter replies to people questioning his proposed 'tweaks' to the playing rules and his reponses are all a variation on WTF would you know. Then he also sneers at pundits like McGuiness or other pundits and journalists that he claims try to overanalyse the game or 'use too many big words'

It amazes me how anyone could spell McGuinness with one N when this man has led a county team to an All-Ireland while Tyrone kick the Sheet out of each other and castigate their own players on public forums.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: trailer on September 20, 2018, 03:43:02 PM
The Cavanagh photo was obviously taken and published by himself. It was made deliberately to look worse by doing very little to clean up his face of dried blood before the photo was taken. There appeared to be no broken skin and the blood would therefore have come from the alleged break in his nose.

In other words it was another piece of self promotion to enhance the claims of victimhood in his book.

He didn't post the picture. But please continue to spout uninformed shite.

I think you will find he took the picture himself and sent it on to a "friend" and doesn't know how it got on from there. ::) 

Read the article below.......

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/cavanagh-i-was-knocked-out-but-i-dont-know-if-it-was-deliberate-37335595.html (https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/cavanagh-i-was-knocked-out-but-i-dont-know-if-it-was-deliberate-37335595.html)

What you said "The Cavanagh photo was obviously taken and published by himself."
What happened - sent picture privately to a friend.

Are you a slow learner?

Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Owen Brannigan on September 20, 2018, 06:14:00 PM
The Cavanagh photo was obviously taken and published by himself. It was made deliberately to look worse by doing very little to clean up his face of dried blood before the photo was taken. There appeared to be no broken skin and the blood would therefore have come from the alleged break in his nose.

In other words it was another piece of self promotion to enhance the claims of victimhood in his book.

He didn't post the picture. But please continue to spout uninformed shite.

I think you will find he took the picture himself and sent it on to a "friend" and doesn't know how it got on from there. ::) 

Read the article below.......

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/cavanagh-i-was-knocked-out-but-i-dont-know-if-it-was-deliberate-37335595.html (https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/cavanagh-i-was-knocked-out-but-i-dont-know-if-it-was-deliberate-37335595.html)

What you said "The Cavanagh photo was obviously taken and published by himself."
What happened - sent picture privately to a friend.

Are you a slow learner?

Not quite as slow as yourself as you cannot tell the difference between posted and published.

If you don't want a picture to become public you don't send it digitally to anyone else. If you do publish it by sending it on to a 'friend' then don't feign surprise when it becomes readily available on-line on various forums especially when you are actively flogging a book and going around book shops for signing.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: trailer on September 20, 2018, 06:41:32 PM
The Cavanagh photo was obviously taken and published by himself. It was made deliberately to look worse by doing very little to clean up his face of dried blood before the photo was taken. There appeared to be no broken skin and the blood would therefore have come from the alleged break in his nose.

In other words it was another piece of self promotion to enhance the claims of victimhood in his book.

He didn't post the picture. But please continue to spout uninformed shite.

I think you will find he took the picture himself and sent it on to a "friend" and doesn't know how it got on from there. ::) 

Read the article below.......

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/cavanagh-i-was-knocked-out-but-i-dont-know-if-it-was-deliberate-37335595.html (https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/cavanagh-i-was-knocked-out-but-i-dont-know-if-it-was-deliberate-37335595.html)

What you said "The Cavanagh photo was obviously taken and published by himself."
What happened - sent picture privately to a friend.

Are you a slow learner?

Not quite as slow as yourself as you cannot tell the difference between posted and published.

If you don't want a picture to become public you don't send it digitally to anyone else. If you do publish it by sending it on to a 'friend' then don't feign surprise when it becomes readily available on-line on various forums especially when you are actively flogging a book and going around book shops for signing.

He neither published or posted the picture. You are wrong.

What shops has he been signing the book in? - More lies. You're making shite up just because you don't like him. If you don't like him that's fine. Just don't make up bullshit.
I'd quit now if I was you.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Delegater on September 20, 2018, 06:47:00 PM
I think Conor Meyler's assessment of the incident was telling.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: tonto1888 on September 20, 2018, 07:51:13 PM
I think Conor Meyler's assessment of the incident was telling.

Why is his more telling than anyone else’s
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: thebuzz on September 20, 2018, 08:35:04 PM
The Cavanagh photo was obviously taken and published by himself. It was made deliberately to look worse by doing very little to clean up his face of dried blood before the photo was taken. There appeared to be no broken skin and the blood would therefore have come from the alleged break in his nose.

In other words it was another piece of self promotion to enhance the claims of victimhood in his book.


So by doing nothing to his face he was deliberately making it look worse?
I thought the first quote was very harsh until I saw a picture of Sean in today's Irish News. From what I could see there wasn't a mark on his face. He must be a quick healer.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Owen Brannigan on September 20, 2018, 08:45:03 PM
The Cavanagh photo was obviously taken and published by himself. It was made deliberately to look worse by doing very little to clean up his face of dried blood before the photo was taken. There appeared to be no broken skin and the blood would therefore have come from the alleged break in his nose.

In other words it was another piece of self promotion to enhance the claims of victimhood in his book.

He didn't post the picture. But please continue to spout uninformed shite.

I think you will find he took the picture himself and sent it on to a "friend" and doesn't know how it got on from there. ::) 

Read the article below.......

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/cavanagh-i-was-knocked-out-but-i-dont-know-if-it-was-deliberate-37335595.html (https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/cavanagh-i-was-knocked-out-but-i-dont-know-if-it-was-deliberate-37335595.html)

What you said "The Cavanagh photo was obviously taken and published by himself."
What happened - sent picture privately to a friend.

Are you a slow learner?

Not quite as slow as yourself as you cannot tell the difference between posted and published.

If you don't want a picture to become public you don't send it digitally to anyone else. If you do publish it by sending it on to a 'friend' then don't feign surprise when it becomes readily available on-line on various forums especially when you are actively flogging a book and going around book shops for signing.

He neither published or posted the picture. You are wrong.

What shops has he been signing the book in? - More lies. You're making shite up just because you don't like him. If you don't like him that's fine. Just don't make up bullshit.
I'd quit now if I was you.

There you go again, mouth running off before putting any brain into gear.

Tomorrow you can have your copy of the book signed in a very small newsagents in Omagh. Go to Top News in Georges Street.

If you can't make Omagh, go to Easons in Foyleside in Derry on Saturday

https://www.easons.com/eason-events (https://www.easons.com/eason-events)


Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: dec on September 20, 2018, 08:46:43 PM
Here is an interview with Sean Cavanagh

https://www.bbc.com/sport/gaelic-games/45580145

It doesn't fit the description of "there wasn't a mark on his face"

Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: omaghjoe on September 20, 2018, 09:11:47 PM
The Cavanagh photo was obviously taken and published by himself. It was made deliberately to look worse by doing very little to clean up his face of dried blood before the photo was taken. There appeared to be no broken skin and the blood would therefore have come from the alleged break in his nose.

In other words it was another piece of self promotion to enhance the claims of victimhood in his book.

He didn't post the picture. But please continue to spout uninformed shite.

I think you will find he took the picture himself and sent it on to a "friend" and doesn't know how it got on from there. ::) 

Read the article below.......

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/cavanagh-i-was-knocked-out-but-i-dont-know-if-it-was-deliberate-37335595.html (https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/cavanagh-i-was-knocked-out-but-i-dont-know-if-it-was-deliberate-37335595.html)

What you said "The Cavanagh photo was obviously taken and published by himself."
What happened - sent picture privately to a friend.

Are you a slow learner?

Not quite as slow as yourself as you cannot tell the difference between posted and published.

If you don't want a picture to become public you don't send it digitally to anyone else. If you do publish it by sending it on to a 'friend' then don't feign surprise when it becomes readily available on-line on various forums especially when you are actively flogging a book and going around book shops for signing.

He neither published or posted the picture. You are wrong.

What shops has he been signing the book in? - More lies. You're making shite up just because you don't like him. If you don't like him that's fine. Just don't make up bullshit.
I'd quit now if I was you.

There you go again, mouth running off before putting any brain into gear.

Tomorrow you can have your copy of the book signed in a very small newsagents in Omagh. Go to Top News in Georges Street.

If you can't make Omagh, go to Easons in Foyleside in Derry on Saturday

https://www.easons.com/eason-events (https://www.easons.com/eason-events)




Red herring anyone?

Published the photo  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Jinxy on September 20, 2018, 09:19:52 PM
The Cavanagh photo was obviously taken and published by himself. It was made deliberately to look worse by doing very little to clean up his face of dried blood before the photo was taken. There appeared to be no broken skin and the blood would therefore have come from the alleged break in his nose.

In other words it was another piece of self promotion to enhance the claims of victimhood in his book.


So by doing nothing to his face he was deliberately making it look worse?
I thought the first quote was very harsh until I saw a picture of Sean in today's Irish News. From what I could see there wasn't a mark on his face. He must be a quick healer.

Photoshop.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Jim Bob on September 20, 2018, 11:32:42 PM
Those are 3 different personalities completely.
Cavanagh strikes me as a gurnin bastid of the highest order.
He has little or no loyalty too; only out of that Tyrone setup a wet weekend and already mouthin off about everythin.
He has literally scattergunned all areas; Catholic Church & the GAA, Mickey Harte, Mental Health, gamesmanship and abuse in games.
Mighty mighty player but i think Joe Brolly may have been right.

Not often we agree but +1

You are one bitter Armagh man. Pity you can’t get 03 and 05 out of your head after all these years.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Owen Brannigan on September 21, 2018, 07:25:25 AM
Those are 3 different personalities completely.
Cavanagh strikes me as a gurnin bastid of the highest order.
He has little or no loyalty too; only out of that Tyrone setup a wet weekend and already mouthin off about everythin.
He has literally scattergunned all areas; Catholic Church & the GAA, Mickey Harte, Mental Health, gamesmanship and abuse in games.
Mighty mighty player but i think Joe Brolly may have been right.

Not often we agree but +1

You are one bitter Armagh man. Pity you can’t get 03 and 05 out of your head after all these years.

Your post says it all about you without the need for any further comment.  ::)
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Jim Bob on September 21, 2018, 07:30:08 AM
Those are 3 different personalities completely.
Cavanagh strikes me as a gurnin bastid of the highest order.
He has little or no loyalty too; only out of that Tyrone setup a wet weekend and already mouthin off about everythin.
He has literally scattergunned all areas; Catholic Church & the GAA, Mickey Harte, Mental Health, gamesmanship and abuse in games.
Mighty mighty player but i think Joe Brolly may have been right.

Not often we agree but +1

You are one bitter Armagh man. Pity you can’t get 03 and 05 out of your head after all these years.



Your post says it all about you without the need for any further comment.  ::)

Truth hurts eh?
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Insane Bolt on September 21, 2018, 08:39:13 AM
Here is an interview with Sean Cavanagh

https://www.bbc.com/sport/gaelic-games/45580145

It doesn't fit the description of "there wasn't a mark on his face"

It's good to see he is on the mend and not put off playing. Many would walk away so good on him.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: haranguerer on September 21, 2018, 09:02:35 AM
Bud, I've no doubt Cavanagh does plenty of good, but so do the people he slates in his book. Do Mickey Harte etc and their relatives not also have access to the internet or bookshops? A legacy of the greatest manager Tyrone have ever had, and one of the best in football as whole is being tarnished by one of his greatest players to sell a book. That deserves criticism in my eyes. If he is going to question others methods and actions then he is leaving himself open to the same.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Orchard park on September 21, 2018, 09:41:24 AM
Did mickey Harte ever write a book or are saints allowed wallow in that murky world ???
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: haranguerer on September 21, 2018, 10:02:14 AM
He did, as did Gooch, Donaghey, and many of the others Cavanagh has been compared to on this thread. I don't, however, recall their books slating those they were involved with to the same extent (regardless of Seans over-sensitivity [imo] to one passage in MHs book), nor do I recall other gaa figures coming out and stating that what they had included about them was complete lies.

To conclude, releasing a book isn't at all reprehensible - using it to settle scores, and filling it with bullshit, is.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Brick Tamlin on September 21, 2018, 10:42:22 AM
What was Conor Meylers contribution that was so tellin?
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Kickham csc on September 21, 2018, 01:18:37 PM
Did mickey Harte ever write a book or are saints allowed wallow in that murky world ???

He did, and if I remember correctly, he was critical of the Tryone 96 and 95 teams as he believed that they didn't fully believe that they could win, but he made sure that the 00's team believed.
I took it as a slap at MacRory, wonder if he still feels the same way now
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: tonto1888 on September 21, 2018, 01:29:05 PM
What was Conor Meylers contribution that was so tellin?

I’m amongst a lot of swearing he said it was deliberate
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: lenny on September 21, 2018, 02:11:16 PM
Did mickey Harte ever write a book or are saints allowed wallow in that murky world ???

He did, and if I remember correctly, he was critical of the Tryone 96 and 95 teams as he believed that they didn't fully believe that they could win, but he made sure that the 00's team believed.
I took it as a slap at MacRory, wonder if he still feels the same way now

Ironic considering he didn’t believe he could beat Dublin this year. Otherwise he wouldn’t have narrowed the pitch in omagh to give Tyrone a chance to keep the score down.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 21, 2018, 02:25:29 PM
What was Conor Meylers contribution that was so tellin?

I’m amongst a lot of swearing he said it was deliberate

Wouldn't pay much attention to Conor Meyler - reckons he recovered from a broken leg in 4 weeks.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Jinxy on September 21, 2018, 10:31:03 PM
Edendork & player concerned taking legal advice apparently.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/edendork-threaten-legal-action-over-reporting-of-se%C3%A1n-cavanagh-incident-1.3637394 (https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/edendork-threaten-legal-action-over-reporting-of-se%C3%A1n-cavanagh-incident-1.3637394)
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: trailer on September 21, 2018, 10:41:15 PM
See that mouth Kieran yerra Donaghy yerra on the Late Late show yerra, Kerry, yerra, cute hoor yerra.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: BennyCake on September 21, 2018, 10:46:39 PM
See that mouth Kieran yerra Donaghy yerra on the Late Late show yerra, Kerry, yerra, cute hoor yerra.

What did Ryan Tubridy think of that?
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: BennyHarp on September 21, 2018, 11:04:33 PM
Statement by Edendork. Watch what you’re saying fellas.  :o

*************EDENDORK GAC STATEMENT**************

Edendork St Malachy’s GAC would firstly like to take this opportunity to wish Sean Cavanagh a speedy recovery following a very unfortunate incident that occurred during Saturday’s Championship Match.

We as a club would like to advise that we have been deeply disappointed by the aspersions cast upon our players and club in respect of this incident. It is quite clear that a blind trial by media has occurred in relation to this matter, causing the individual player and the Club a great deal of vexation. It should be noted that this was a collision that occurred during the course of play and in plain view of the referee and match officials whilst the ball was in play. No sanction or disciplinary action ensued at that time.

Edendork GAC would like to state firmly that it is the opinion of the Club and individual player that this was an accidental and unfortunate collision and we hold any suggestion to the contrary as being defamatory.

The Club wishes to add that they are gravely disappointed by any media publication linking this incident to an overarching suggestion of an endemic problem of violence in Tyrone football.

The Club warns that the individual player and club are taking legal advice in respect of comments published on social media inferring and expressly stating that this was a deliberate act. The Club and individual player will meet any inferred or express statement with the robustness required to ensure that the Club and player’s reputations are protected.

The player involved states resolutely that this was not an intentional or malicious act but an accident. We as a Club support this position and ask that people take a few moments to think before casting any insult or contempt towards the individual player or the Club.

We hope this draws a line under what was a competitive encounter on Saturday against Moy GFC and emphasise that we hope to see Sean back playing for his club as soon as possible.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: trailer on September 21, 2018, 11:14:30 PM
Can't believe any self respecting GAA person would go on that show unless they were getting paid? Then Kieran has always been about the money, just look at his twitter feed promoting his sponsored cars, writing a book, yerra etc yerra.

Interestingly, Edendork wait 6 days before coming out with their statement. Why the wait?

Anyone seen any good DVD's lately?
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: BennyCake on September 21, 2018, 11:23:48 PM
Lads, what the f**k does 'yerra' even mean? I have never heard that word spoken in my life.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Beffs on September 21, 2018, 11:28:58 PM
It's a Kerryism.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Itchy on September 21, 2018, 11:52:52 PM
It's a Kerryism.

Or arrah in the western counties
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Never beat the deeler on September 22, 2018, 12:01:25 AM
It's a Kerryism.

Or arrah in the western counties

Not sure about the usage of yerra, but arragh is a great phrase.

It can be used to dismiss anything that you disagree with /don't like / understand. It can be put with most words to make a complete sentence.

"That was a terrible brawl in the Tyrone club game"
"Arragh brawl"

"I was reading about it in the Independent"
"AAAARAaagh Independent"

"Eamon Dunphy was talking about it on his podcast"
"AAAAARAAAAAAAGGHHHH Dunphy"

Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Rossfan on September 22, 2018, 12:04:33 AM
Aaaaarrra will ya Shtop. ....
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Jim Bob on September 22, 2018, 01:23:51 AM
Statement by Edendork. Watch what you’re saying fellas.  :o

*************EDENDORK GAC STATEMENT**************

Edendork St Malachy’s GAC would firstly like to take this opportunity to wish Sean Cavanagh a speedy recovery following a very unfortunate incident that occurred during Saturday’s Championship Match.

We as a club would like to advise that we have been deeply disappointed by the aspersions cast upon our players and club in respect of this incident. It is quite clear that a blind trial by media has occurred in relation to this matter, causing the individual player and the Club a great deal of vexation. It should be noted that this was a collision that occurred during the course of play and in plain view of the referee and match officials whilst the ball was in play. No sanction or disciplinary action ensued at that time.

Edendork GAC would like to state firmly that it is the opinion of the Club and individual player that this was an accidental and unfortunate collision and we hold any suggestion to the contrary as being defamatory.

The Club wishes to add that they are gravely disappointed by any media publication linking this incident to an overarching suggestion of an endemic problem of violence in Tyrone football.

The Club warns that the individual player and club are taking legal advice in respect of comments published on social media inferring and expressly stating that this was a deliberate act. The Club and individual player will meet any inferred or express statement with the robustness required to ensure that the Club and player’s reputations are protected.

The player involved states resolutely that this was not an intentional or malicious act but an accident. We as a Club support this position and ask that people take a few moments to think before casting any insult or contempt towards the individual player or the Club.

We hope this draws a line under what was a competitive encounter on Saturday against Moy GFC and emphasise that we hope to see Sean back playing for his club as soon as possible.

So they want to draw a line under this yet they don’t because they will meet any inferred or express statement with robustness required .......etc etc. The recorded audio which circulated widely during the week has thrown the gauntlet down. Will they  take the alleged speaker to court.?????????
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: tonto1888 on September 22, 2018, 07:14:15 AM
I suppose if they feel that strongly about it they should do. Maybe Ewan McKenna too
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: square_ball on September 22, 2018, 09:26:30 AM
MacKenna deleted all his tweets very quickly last week. I’d say he was given a similar legal warning to the above statement.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Tony Baloney on September 22, 2018, 09:36:58 AM
It's a Kerryism.

Or arrah in the western counties

Not sure about the usage of yerra, but arragh is a great phrase.

It can be used to dismiss anything that you disagree with /don't like / understand. It can be put with most words to make a complete sentence.

"That was a terrible brawl in the Tyrone club game"
"Arragh brawl"

"I was reading about it in the Independent"
"AAAARAaagh Independent"

"Eamon Dunphy was talking about it on his podcast"
"AAAAARAAAAAAAGGHHHH Dunphy"
Araaagh" is, like, if you agree with someone, you know, like "Philomena Begley is one great piece of ass. Araaagh!" But then, if you disagree, like "A Massey is better than a Case? Araaagh!" You know? But then, it's also like if something's the greatest thing in the world, like, "Minghia! That curry sauce ! Araaagh!" But it's also like saying "Go to hell!" too. Like, you know, like "Hey Prionsus, you got a one-inch pecker?" and Prionsus says "Araaagh!" Sometimes it just means "Araaagh".
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Orchard park on September 22, 2018, 09:40:12 AM
Is that phiolmena Begley comment not
A) abuse of the elderly
B) abuse of felow posters having breakfast..........



It's a good while since anyone would be laying a blanket on the ground for Philomena
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: BennyCake on September 22, 2018, 09:45:07 AM
It's a Kerryism.

Or arrah in the western counties

Not sure about the usage of yerra, but arragh is a great phrase.

It can be used to dismiss anything that you disagree with /don't like / understand. It can be put with most words to make a complete sentence.

"That was a terrible brawl in the Tyrone club game"
"Arragh brawl"

"I was reading about it in the Independent"
"AAAARAaagh Independent"

"Eamon Dunphy was talking about it on his podcast"
"AAAAARAAAAAAAGGHHHH Dunphy"
Araaagh" is, like, if you agree with someone, you know, like "Philomena Begley is one great piece of ass. Araaagh!" But then, if you disagree, like "A Massey is better than a Case? Araaagh!" You know? But then, it's also like if something's the greatest thing in the world, like, "Minghia! That curry sauce ! Araaagh!" But it's also like saying "Go to hell!" too. Like, you know, like "Hey Prionsus, you got a one-inch pecker?" and Prionsus says "Araaagh!" Sometimes it just means "Araaagh".

My head's sore reading that.

And I'm still none the wiser.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Tony Baloney on September 22, 2018, 02:23:58 PM
It's a Kerryism.

Or arrah in the western counties

Not sure about the usage of yerra, but arragh is a great phrase.

It can be used to dismiss anything that you disagree with /don't like / understand. It can be put with most words to make a complete sentence.

"That was a terrible brawl in the Tyrone club game"
"Arragh brawl"

"I was reading about it in the Independent"
"AAAARAaagh Independent"

"Eamon Dunphy was talking about it on his podcast"
"AAAAARAAAAAAAGGHHHH Dunphy"
Araaagh" is, like, if you agree with someone, you know, like "Philomena Begley is one great piece of ass. Araaagh!" But then, if you disagree, like "A Massey is better than a Case? Araaagh!" You know? But then, it's also like if something's the greatest thing in the world, like, "Minghia! That curry sauce ! Araaagh!" But it's also like saying "Go to hell!" too. Like, you know, like "Hey Prionsus, you got a one-inch pecker?" and Prionsus says "Araaagh!" Sometimes it just means "Araaagh".

My head's sore reading that.

And I'm still none the wiser.
Go and watch Donnie Brasco.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: BennyCake on September 22, 2018, 04:28:22 PM
It's a Kerryism.

Or arrah in the western counties

Not sure about the usage of yerra, but arragh is a great phrase.

It can be used to dismiss anything that you disagree with /don't like / understand. It can be put with most words to make a complete sentence.

"That was a terrible brawl in the Tyrone club game"
"Arragh brawl"

"I was reading about it in the Independent"
"AAAARAaagh Independent"

"Eamon Dunphy was talking about it on his podcast"
"AAAAARAAAAAAAGGHHHH Dunphy"
Araaagh" is, like, if you agree with someone, you know, like "Philomena Begley is one great piece of ass. Araaagh!" But then, if you disagree, like "A Massey is better than a Case? Araaagh!" You know? But then, it's also like if something's the greatest thing in the world, like, "Minghia! That curry sauce ! Araaagh!" But it's also like saying "Go to hell!" too. Like, you know, like "Hey Prionsus, you got a one-inch pecker?" and Prionsus says "Araaagh!" Sometimes it just means "Araaagh".

My head's sore reading that.

And I'm still none the wiser.
Go and watch Donnie Brasco.

Why, is he from Kerry?
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: tonto1888 on September 22, 2018, 04:31:13 PM
It's a Kerryism.

Or arrah in the western counties

Not sure about the usage of yerra, but arragh is a great phrase.

It can be used to dismiss anything that you disagree with /don't like / understand. It can be put with most words to make a complete sentence.

"That was a terrible brawl in the Tyrone club game"
"Arragh brawl"

"I was reading about it in the Independent"
"AAAARAaagh Independent"

"Eamon Dunphy was talking about it on his podcast"
"AAAAARAAAAAAAGGHHHH Dunphy"
Araaagh" is, like, if you agree with someone, you know, like "Philomena Begley is one great piece of ass. Araaagh!" But then, if you disagree, like "A Massey is better than a Case? Araaagh!" You know? But then, it's also like if something's the greatest thing in the world, like, "Minghia! That curry sauce ! Araaagh!" But it's also like saying "Go to hell!" too. Like, you know, like "Hey Prionsus, you got a one-inch pecker?" and Prionsus says "Araaagh!" Sometimes it just means "Araaagh".

Brilliant
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: BennyHarp on September 22, 2018, 06:40:38 PM
So the investigation has taken place, the footage has been reviewed and the Tyrone county board have agreed that there was nothing malicious in the Sean Cavanagh incident and no further action will be taken. I’d assume there’ll be a few apologies and retractions being offered over the next few days?
https://twitter.com/declanbogue/status/1043543348861120512?s=21
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Minder on September 22, 2018, 07:41:58 PM
So the investigation has taken place, the footage has been reviewed and the Tyrone county board have agreed that there was nothing malicious in the Sean Cavanagh incident and no further action will be taken. I’d assume there’ll be a few apologies and retractions being offered over the next few days?
https://twitter.com/declanbogue/status/1043543348861120512?s=21

That won’t suit some agendas
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: tiempo on September 22, 2018, 10:38:36 PM
So the investigation has taken place, the footage has been reviewed and the Tyrone county board have agreed that there was nothing malicious in the Sean Cavanagh incident and no further action will be taken. I’d assume there’ll be a few apologies and retractions being offered over the next few days?
https://twitter.com/declanbogue/status/1043543348861120512?s=21

That won’t suit some agendas

Expect the Ewan McKenna Vicky Pollard agenda in the coming days. Yeah but no but yeah but no but. The man is a smeg.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: ONeill on September 22, 2018, 11:21:29 PM
Dunno much about this McKenna lad but he made a quare dick outta himself. Is he an Irish Katie Hopkins?
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: imtommygunn on September 23, 2018, 10:01:18 AM
Dunno much about this McKenna lad but he made a quare dick outta himself. Is he an Irish Katie Hopkins?

In a nutshell yes ;D
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Owen Brannigan on September 23, 2018, 09:25:11 PM
Can't believe any self respecting GAA person would go on that show unless they were getting paid? Then Kieran has always been about the money, just look at his twitter feed promoting his sponsored cars, writing a book, yerra etc yerra.


Did he have any book signing sessions in local shops to promote the book?

Have you looked at your hero's twitter feed to see his promotion of sponsored clothes:

https://twitter.com/benettimenswear/status/1039873544082128897 (https://twitter.com/benettimenswear/status/1039873544082128897)

his book: https://twitter.com/SeanCavanagh14/status/1037402878791622657 (https://twitter.com/SeanCavanagh14/status/1037402878791622657)

and his business.

All of these players who are switched on are into self promotion to get as much out of their name while they can and fair play to every one of them regardless of where they are from.  They put a hell of a lot more into the game than they ever will get in return. It's just of them are better and more prolific at it than others. 

Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: ONeill on September 23, 2018, 10:09:31 PM
Bound to be a book in Francie
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Main Street on September 23, 2018, 10:16:13 PM
So the investigation has taken place, the footage has been reviewed and the Tyrone county board have agreed that there was nothing malicious in the Sean Cavanagh incident and no further action will be taken. I’d assume there’ll be a few apologies and retractions being offered over the next few days?
https://twitter.com/declanbogue/status/1043543348861120512?s=21

That won’t suit some agendas
Welease the video!!
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: BennyCake on September 23, 2018, 10:30:53 PM
Bound to be a book in Francie

Can't see it. He's a man of mystery. Quite right. Give the f**kers nothing!
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Jinxy on September 24, 2018, 10:37:51 AM
So the investigation has taken place, the footage has been reviewed and the Tyrone county board have agreed that there was nothing malicious in the Sean Cavanagh incident and no further action will be taken. I’d assume there’ll be a few apologies and retractions being offered over the next few days?
https://twitter.com/declanbogue/status/1043543348861120512?s=21

That won’t suit some agendas
Welease the video!!

What are they hiding?


Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: trailer on September 25, 2018, 10:52:46 PM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2018/0925/998096-moy-sean-cavanagh/
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: haranguerer on September 26, 2018, 08:24:01 AM
What are they thinking??  ::)
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: yellowcard on September 26, 2018, 08:42:14 AM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2018/0925/998096-moy-sean-cavanagh/

It puts paid to the notion that Cavanagh and Moy have ever accepted that it was anything but a deliberate act. Only the Edendork player will truly know his intentions himself, but I think that the Tyrone county board need to release the video footage if they want full transparency. It might still not be 100% clear but at least people can make their own minds up based on the evidence and if Edendork believe they have been slandered they will also welcome the chance to clear their players name.   
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Delegater on September 26, 2018, 08:47:41 AM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2018/0925/998096-moy-sean-cavanagh/

It puts paid to the notion that Cavanagh and Moy have ever accepted that it was anything but a deliberate act. Only the Edendork player will truly know his intentions himself, but I think that the Tyrone county board need to release the video footage if they want full transparency. It might still not be 100% clear but at least people can make their own minds up based on the evidence and if Edendork believe they have been slandered they will also welcome the chance to clear their players name.

Would a club have the legal capability to prevent the CB releasing a video?
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: haranguerer on September 26, 2018, 09:12:13 AM
What exactly does prolonging this achieve? Who cares what the man on the street thinks about the incident? At the end of the day those who want it to be deliberate will see that in the video, and those who don't, won't.

Moy have released a statement saying they disagree with their own county boards interpretation of the incident. I don't know on what planet they think that's a good idea. If they really are that interested in having a player retrospectively punished for what appears to be a debatable incident, releasing statements to the media would not seem to be the best way to go about it, and it certainly contravenes part of their self-same statement:

'The club also condemned online abuse that appeared against both sides in the aftermath of the incident and appealed for restraint, and wished Edendork well in the next round of the championship.'

Such a shit show
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Hound on September 26, 2018, 09:19:22 AM
If Moy are correct in their assertion that the injury to Cavanagh happened directly after he caught a mark, then they are absolutely correct to appeal the decision. (Presuming they are entitled to appeal under the rules of the Association). It's the right thing to do.

 
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: haranguerer on September 26, 2018, 09:22:11 AM
I don't understand what you think the relevance of it happening directly after he caught a mark is. That doesn't change in the slightest whether it was deliberate or accidental. The ref was there, he deemed it accidental.

If they want to appeal, they can (as you say, presuming entitled to under the rules) - releasing a statement would not seem to be the best way to go about that, and indeed, would seem to be deliberately designed to escalate this in the (uninformed) public eye
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Redhand Santa on September 26, 2018, 09:25:57 AM
What exactly does prolonging this achieve? Who cares what the man on the street thinks about the incident? At the end of the day those who want it to be deliberate will see that in the video, and those who don't, won't.

Moy have released a statement saying they disagree with their own county boards interpretation of the incident. I don't know on what planet they think that's a good idea. If they really are that interested in having a player retrospectively punished for what appears to be a debatable incident, releasing statements to the media would not seem to be the best way to go about it, and it certainly contravenes part of their self-same statement:

'The club also condemned online abuse that appeared against both sides in the aftermath of the incident and appealed for restraint, and wished Edendork well in the next round of the championship.'

Such a shit show

Without seeing the video it's hard to make a judgement but if it does look clearly deliberate then they are 100% correct. Both Edendork and the county board were quick releasing statements saying it was an accident. If it does look deliberate you would have to ask what are the county board at releasing a statement effectively saying it was an accident? They should be trying to cut these incidents out of the game not help cover them up. There have been so many incidents happening in Tyrone club games recently that when evidence is available that a serious assault took place it shouldn't be ignored.

If it was deliberate and you can get away with knocking someone out and breaking their nose with the use of knees in a championship game with 8 match officials and a video you'd wonder what you could get away with a club league game with just a referee there. We've had a few serious assaults in games this year in Tyrone. And high profile players have always been a target, look at whay happened Brian McGuigan in a reserve game a number of years ago. Our players deserve protection.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Redhand Santa on September 26, 2018, 09:27:22 AM
I don't understand what you think the relevance of it happening directly after he caught a mark is. That doesn't change in the slightest whether it was deliberate or accidental. The ref was there, he deemed it accidental.

If they want to appeal, they can (as you say, presuming entitled to under the rules) - releasing a statement would not seem to be the best way to go about that, and indeed, would seem to be deliberately designed to escalate this in the (uninformed) public eye

The statement was obviously intended to put pressure on the county board who wanted to brush the incident under the carpet and were quick to release a public statement of their own.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: trailer on September 26, 2018, 09:31:04 AM
Edendork had their say. The County board had their say, think now Moy wanted theirs. I understand that the Moy committee saw the footage under supervision of the county board before they released their statement.
The Tyrone County board probably hope by closing ranks this will just go away after the bad press the Club Championship has had.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Main Street on September 26, 2018, 10:47:03 AM
I thought it only took a hair ruffle to floor a Tyrone player but Big Sean's face looks like it has been trampled on by a heifer.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: Therealdonald on September 26, 2018, 05:54:28 PM
What exactly does prolonging this achieve? Who cares what the man on the street thinks about the incident? At the end of the day those who want it to be deliberate will see that in the video, and those who don't, won't.

Moy have released a statement saying they disagree with their own county boards interpretation of the incident. I don't know on what planet they think that's a good idea. If they really are that interested in having a player retrospectively punished for what appears to be a debatable incident, releasing statements to the media would not seem to be the best way to go about it, and it certainly contravenes part of their self-same statement:

'The club also condemned online abuse that appeared against both sides in the aftermath of the incident and appealed for restraint, and wished Edendork well in the next round of the championship.'

Such a shit show

Without seeing the video it's hard to make a judgement but if it does look clearly deliberate then they are 100% correct. Both Edendork and the county board were quick releasing statements saying it was an accident. If it does look deliberate you would have to ask what are the county board at releasing a statement effectively saying it was an accident? They should be trying to cut these incidents out of the game not help cover them up. There have been so many incidents happening in Tyrone club games recently that when evidence is available that a serious assault took place it shouldn't be ignored.

If it was deliberate and you can get away with knocking someone out and breaking their nose with the use of knees in a championship game with 8 match officials and a video you'd wonder what you could get away with a club league game with just a referee there. We've had a few serious assaults in games this year in Tyrone. And high profile players have always been a target, look at whay happened Brian McGuigan in a reserve game a number of years ago. Our players deserve protection.

Big Sean was always a bit of a yap when it came to matters like this. Great player and everything, but still there was a certain softness to him. Gerard O'Kane pulled and dragged at him for 70mins in Casement one year and Sean stood with his two hands up in the air like an air traffic controller.
Title: Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
Post by: APM on September 26, 2018, 07:07:19 PM
What exactly does prolonging this achieve? Who cares what the man on the street thinks about the incident? At the end of the day those who want it to be deliberate will see that in the video, and those who don't, won't.

Moy have released a statement saying they disagree with their own county boards interpretation of the incident. I don't know on what planet they think that's a good idea. If they really are that interested in having a player retrospectively punished for what appears to be a debatable incident, releasing statements to the media would not seem to be the best way to go about it, and it certainly contravenes part of their self-same statement.



Quick, sweep this under the carpet, it looks bad.  If we don't talk about it or do anything about it, it will just go away.