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Non GAA Discussion => General discussion => Topic started by: IolarCoisCuain on August 21, 2018, 09:48:02 PM

Title: Forgiveness
Post by: IolarCoisCuain on August 21, 2018, 09:48:02 PM
I'm very impressed by the tolerance shown over on the Mickey Harte RT… boycott thread. A lot of people seem to think it's time for Mickey to move on and do interviews with RT…. Indignation has a sell-by date, as Syferus pithily put it.

One of the reasons I'm so impressed by this is that I personally am a bitter man, from a line of bitter men. If my family were of noble rather than peasant stock, a lemon would feature prominently on our coat of arms. This ability to forgive and move on has really got home to me how shallow my life is, and my own lack of emotional maturity.

It's got home to me so much that I encourage all those who have been healed by time, whose indignation has passed its sell-by date, who are now mellow and useful members of society again, to share their experience. What was the biggest thing that happened to you and you got over? Your wife having an affair, perhaps? You were annoyed but look, time heals and maybe it was partly due your own selfish neglect of that good woman. Or maybe you lost a packet in the property market at the time of the crash ten years ago but looking back now you think: it's only money. Don't we have our health? Isn't that the most important thing?

Or maybe your daughter was murdered on her honeymoon and someone took the piss out of her on the national airwaves isn't very remorseful at all. You know, whatevs.

Away you go, friends.
Title: Re: Forgiveness
Post by: Syferus on August 21, 2018, 10:19:20 PM
Did you really have to make another thread just to post the text equivlent of a lip quivering sermon? Thatís some ego ya got there, buddy.
Title: Re: Forgiveness
Post by: trileacman on August 21, 2018, 10:25:03 PM
Most people hold onto their bitterness like its gold. Take Syferus for example, he called the Roscommon tanking by Tyrone the "grudge match of the year" due to some menial defeat Ros u-21s suffered years ago. Someone forgot to tell the Rossie players unfortunately.
Title: Re: Forgiveness
Post by: Owen Brannigan on August 21, 2018, 10:41:50 PM
I posted on the Harte RTE thread that I am like Harte in that I haven't forgiven those who have wronged me and I don't forget what was done to me and/or mine, however, I have been able to set it aside and get on with my life.

I have been wronged in the past and it has resulted in a severe affect on my health which led to me having to leave my work.  I don't forgive any of those responsible in any way for this situation, I don't forget what they have done but I have set it aside and moved on with the rest of my life.

This may be unchristian by me and potentially damaging to my mental health but I have no difficulties with this. I feel I am now mentally stronger than before having emerged from extremely difficult and challenging times in a toxic environment where I probably stayed too long and allowed my health to be permanently damaged.

Title: Re: Forgiveness
Post by: Dougal Maguire on August 21, 2018, 10:48:59 PM
Most people hold onto their bitterness like its gold. Take Syferus for example, he called the Roscommon tanking by Tyrone the "grudge match of the year" due to some menial defeat Ros u-21s suffered years ago. Someone forgot to tell the Rossie players unfortunately.
Excellent.
Title: Re: Forgiveness
Post by: Itchy on August 21, 2018, 11:11:23 PM
I posted on the Harte RTE thread that I am like Harte in that I haven't forgiven those who have wronged me and I don't forget what was done to me and/or mine, however, I have been able to set it aside and get on with my life.

I have been wronged in the past and it has resulted in a severe affect on my health which led to me having to leave my work.  I don't forgive any of those responsible in any way for this situation, I don't forget what they have done but I have set it aside and moved on with the rest of my life.

This may be unchristian by me and potentially damaging to my mental health but I have no difficulties with this. I feel I am now mentally stronger than before having emerged from extremely difficult and challenging times in a toxic environment where I probably stayed too long and allowed my health to be permanently damaged.

I'm bit like that but I do have room for a sincere and heartfelt apology from someone who wronged me. But let's be honest that is rare. Ive had so called friends wrong me and my attitude is duck them, I no longer bother with them. I believe in karma and people generally get what's coming to them.

I don't particularly like Harte but he was wronged and in his position I wouldn't be accepting an apology easily. We are taking about a murdered daughter in her honeymoon.
Title: Re: Forgiveness
Post by: Puckoon on August 22, 2018, 03:22:53 AM
I pity those who donít have the ability to forgive. Iíd rather have hemorrhoids than not be able to forgive.

Everyone gets fucked over somewhere along the line. Deal with it.

Obviously Iíve no context in the face of the murder of a child, but in general usual lifenterms related to love/marriage/employment/betrayal - Get. Over. it.
Title: Re: Forgiveness
Post by: Owen Brannigan on August 22, 2018, 07:32:03 AM
I posted on the Harte RTE thread that I am like Harte in that I haven't forgiven those who have wronged me and I don't forget what was done to me and/or mine, however, I have been able to set it aside and get on with my life.

I have been wronged in the past and it has resulted in a severe affect on my health which led to me having to leave my work.  I don't forgive any of those responsible in any way for this situation, I don't forget what they have done but I have set it aside and moved on with the rest of my life.

This may be unchristian by me and potentially damaging to my mental health but I have no difficulties with this. I feel I am now mentally stronger than before having emerged from extremely difficult and challenging times in a toxic environment where I probably stayed too long and allowed my health to be permanently damaged.

I'm bit like that but I do have room for a sincere and heartfelt apology from someone who wronged me. But let's be honest that is rare. Ive had so called friends wrong me and my attitude is duck them, I no longer bother with them. I believe in karma and people generally get what's coming to them.

I don't particularly like Harte but he was wronged and in his position I wouldn't be accepting an apology easily. We are taking about a murdered daughter in her honeymoon.

+1
Title: Re: Forgiveness
Post by: Farrandeelin on August 22, 2018, 08:04:50 AM
Also agree with you Itchy and Owen. Particularly your first paragraph where you state not being able to forgive or forget. Even thinking back on past events gives me ire. But I also can get on with my life too.
Title: Re: Forgiveness
Post by: TheClubman on August 22, 2018, 09:15:55 AM
Forgiving is one thing. And I'd guess as a man of faith Harte has forgiven those who have wronged him. However - it doesn't mean he has to forget about it and partake in and assist their business. Forgiveness doesn't imply you have to befriend the person you forgive.

Personally - I'd always be more wary of people who have done me wrong in the past. A few in particular, while I'd wish them no ill will, I'd be quite happy if I never laid eyes on them or had to speak to them again. I think that's a quite reasonable position no matter what you believe.
Title: Re: Forgiveness
Post by: spuds on August 22, 2018, 09:28:09 AM

Personally - I'd always be more wary of people who have done me wrong in the past. A few in particular, while I'd wish them no ill will, I'd be quite happy if I never laid eyes on them or had to speak to them again. I think that's a quite reasonable position no matter what you believe.

Agreed. Forgiven not forgotten.
Title: Re: Forgiveness
Post by: Owen Brannigan on August 22, 2018, 04:45:07 PM
I pity those who donít have the ability to forgive. Iíd rather have hemorrhoids than not be able to forgive.

Everyone gets fucked over somewhere along the line. Deal with it.

Obviously Iíve no context in the face of the murder of a child, but in general usual lifenterms related to love/marriage/employment/betrayal - Get. Over. it.

Yes deal with it.  For me and I believe others, 'dealing with it' is not forgiving the offenders or forgetting what they have done but setting it aside and getting on with life, not allowing the matter to become a barrier to my life.

"Getting over it" as you suggest does not have to mean providing forgiveness or just forgetting about any offence.

The idea of forgiving those who have wronged you is a concept based in Christian teaching but like many aspects of this teaching we can take it or leave it, it is not an indisputable construct.

Just like Itchy, I believe in Karma, that those who have offended/hurt/damaged me will at some stage get their comeuppance to some extent. My experience in life to date has been that this is normally the case.
Title: Re: Forgiveness
Post by: Puckoon on August 23, 2018, 05:17:55 AM
I guess I feel that the weight of being wronged will bring me down before it will hanging around the neck of those who wronged me. Plus I may be oblivious to those who have perceived that I have wronged them. Forgiveness seems to me, to be the best path.

Like Don Henley - I'm trying to get down, to the heart of the matter.

Title: Re: Forgiveness
Post by: armaghniac on August 23, 2018, 11:25:07 AM
As noted on the other thread, the media boycott isn't doing Tyrone much harm, they are under no obligation to facilitate RT…'s business. You just have to be careful to keep your own interests in mind, and suit yourself in this situation.
Title: Re: Forgiveness
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 23, 2018, 11:46:25 AM
You don't have to forgive someone for bringing you pain, but if you hold a grudge then you are holding on to something that will fester, that couldnt be good for you. If someone were to bring pain or suffering to me or my family I'd probably have to deal with it at the time and move on, circumstances may be different depending on who has done it and why they did it?

Has the person fallen on hard times and felt that this was their only way of getting out of a hole (if someone stole from you or conned you) or has the relationship broke down and for whatever reasons and that person has left you for someone else, I'd asked the question, did I try and make it work or did I just not bother? 

As for anyone fostering hate over a discussion board, they need to take a good long look at themselves and wise the fcuk up  ;)

You are on this planet for a very small time, work to live and enjoy each day, as for someone doing you wrong well they generally get whats coming to them as they don't change to often and it catches up with them at some point.. call it Karma if you like but its just the law of averages, you can't expect to be a cnut and get away with it all the time
Title: Re: Forgiveness
Post by: ONeill on August 23, 2018, 08:58:01 PM
Never forgive or forget. You don't have to. Just learn.
Title: Re: Forgiveness
Post by: The Iceman on August 23, 2018, 09:09:12 PM
Mickey's case is a very rare one- I pray none of us have to deal with the particular circumstances. I think he is right to boycott the station.

In the broader context of forgiveness it's a tough one. We're all guilty at some time or other of wronging others and would love second chances and third chances and more chances and we've all been wronged at times and given up on the people who wronged us.  The question is should we forgive and be forgiven....

I would side with Puck on this, as hard as it is, forgiveness is the better path for our long term mental health. 
Title: Re: Forgiveness
Post by: Owen Brannigan on August 23, 2018, 09:24:19 PM
Never forgive or forget. You don't have to. Just learn.

+1

And you don't have to take it from the sanctimonious who tell you to 'deal with it' or be christian, they haven't walked in your shoes.

........... you can't expect to be a cnut and get away with it all the time

Unfortunately, there are a fair few of them walking around who would certainly appear to be getting away with it.
Title: Re: Forgiveness
Post by: The Iceman on August 23, 2018, 09:31:30 PM
Never forgive or forget. You don't have to. Just learn.

+1

And you don't have to take it from the sanctimonious who tell you to 'deal with it' or be christian, they haven't walked in your shoes.

........... you can't expect to be a cnut and get away with it all the time

Unfortunately, there are a fair few of them walking around who would certainly appear to be getting away with it.
there's nothing sanctimonious about offering advice to someone. You don't know what shoes anyone has walked in don't pretend to be the only one on the receiving end of something. What would someone have to go through and come out the other side of before you would listen to their advice?
Bit of a narrow view if you ask me....but I forgive your ignorance :P
Title: Re: Forgiveness
Post by: ONeill on August 23, 2018, 11:30:11 PM
Never forgive or forget. You don't have to. Just learn.

+1

And you don't have to take it from the sanctimonious who tell you to 'deal with it' or be christian, they haven't walked in your shoes.

........... you can't expect to be a cnut and get away with it all the time

Unfortunately, there are a fair few of them walking around who would certainly appear to be getting away with it.
there's nothing sanctimonious about offering advice to someone. You don't know what shoes anyone has walked in don't pretend to be the only one on the receiving end of something. What would someone have to go through and come out the other side of before you would listen to their advice?
Bit of a narrow view if you ask me....but I forgive your ignorance :P

That's an even narrower view surely on your part.

The wider view would be...ok...I trust your judgement on this. None of my business.
Title: Re: Forgiveness
Post by: hardstation on August 23, 2018, 11:33:54 PM
Calling ďDeal with itĒ advice is a stretch too.
Title: Re: Forgiveness
Post by: Puckoon on August 24, 2018, 01:00:57 AM
Alright alright alright. Upon reflection, I regret the flippant nature of my comments. Theyíre directed mostly at myself as an affirmation of what I believe but in todayís day and age of mental health I should have been more cognizant of the potential to rub salt on wounds that may clearly still be open for people who read and post on this board. That wasnít my intention and while Iím somewhat connected with A previous posters former place of work, Iím ignorant of the details as to what actually happened and I certainly wasnít trying to offer advice or make my comments seem pointed in that regard.

Iíve no idea what anyone else has gone through but I do stand by my sentiment that Iíd be disappointed at myself if I was unable to forgive. Without going into detail Iíve had plenty of wrongs fired my way and the last thing I want on my deathbed is the face or memory of someone who wronged me. I feel better moving on and particularly moving above those instances and those people. Part of that is in my opinion the ability to forgive. But I donít forget.

I dealt with it. I under stand thatís a huge simplification and I think itís fair to say that everyone probably has a scale on which they can forgive and a scale on which they couldnít.

Sanctimony is not my intention or goal so Iíve no problem apologizing for the perception of being such. Genuinely wasnít what I wanted to add to the conversation. I find the forgiveness thing a really interesting window into personality and psychology. I know people who canít forgive the smallest of things and I really do pity that as a default setting. Itís often wielded as a mis placed badge of honor and it never fails to bemuse me when I see that trait in people. Clearly for more serious issues thereís a scale of what people are prepared to forgive and what they arenít. I guess Iím happy enough in my ability so far, or maybe Iíve just not been unfortunate enough to have the worst things happen to me yet. Iím not convinced on the latter yet.
Title: Re: Forgiveness
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 24, 2018, 12:49:32 PM
Alright alright alright. Upon reflection, I regret the flippant nature of my comments. Theyíre directed mostly at myself as an affirmation of what I believe but in todayís day and age of mental health I should have been more cognizant of the potential to rub salt on wounds that may clearly still be open for people who read and post on this board. That wasnít my intention and while Iím somewhat connected with A previous posters former place of work, Iím ignorant of the details as to what actually happened and I certainly wasnít trying to offer advice or make my comments seem pointed in that regard.

Iíve no idea what anyone else has gone through but I do stand by my sentiment that Iíd be disappointed at myself if I was unable to forgive. Without going into detail Iíve had plenty of wrongs fired my way and the last thing I want on my deathbed is the face or memory of someone who wronged me. I feel better moving on and particularly moving above those instances and those people. Part of that is in my opinion the ability to forgive. But I donít forget.

I dealt with it. I under stand thatís a huge simplification and I think itís fair to say that everyone probably has a scale on which they can forgive and a scale on which they couldnít.

Sanctimony is not my intention or goal so Iíve no problem apologizing for the perception of being such. Genuinely wasnít what I wanted to add to the conversation. I find the forgiveness thing a really interesting window into personality and psychology. I know people who canít forgive the smallest of things and I really do pity that as a default setting. Itís often wielded as a mis placed badge of honor and it never fails to bemuse me when I see that trait in people. Clearly for more serious issues thereís a scale of what people are prepared to forgive and what they arenít. I guess Iím happy enough in my ability so far, or maybe Iíve just not been unfortunate enough to have the worst things happen to me yet. Iím not convinced on the latter yet.

It's ok, I forgive you.
 :o
Title: Re: Forgiveness
Post by: Champion The Wonder Horse on August 25, 2018, 08:18:14 PM
Never forgive or forget. You don't have to. Just learn.

Would agree with this. To quote Springsteen "Nothing is forgotten or forgiven."

I don't think I've ever seen a sincere apology; just sorry about getting caught.

Not a big believer in karma either; bad things happen to good people.
Title: Re: Forgiveness
Post by: Owen Brannigan on August 25, 2018, 09:19:29 PM
I feel better moving on and particularly moving above those instances and those people. Part of that is in my opinion the ability to forgive. But I donít forget.

I dealt with it. I under stand thatís a huge simplification and I think itís fair to say that everyone probably has a scale on which they can forgive and a scale on which they couldnít.

What I and others said.  Move on, don't forget, learn, don't waste energy holding or carrying a grudge as they are not worth it.  Basically, learn and move on. 

Forgiveness is a concept which makes the wrongdoer feel better but does nothing for the wronged. So, to me, forgiveness is not a necessary part of moving on.

Title: Re: Forgiveness
Post by: ONeill on August 26, 2018, 09:08:09 AM
Will never forgive Armagh 02 or Derry winning Sam in 93. Both scarred me.
Title: Re: Forgiveness
Post by: grounded on August 26, 2018, 09:13:58 AM
Will never forgive Armagh 02 or Derry winning Sam in 93. Both scarred me.

Scarred, scared or scoured or all three?
Title: Re: Forgiveness
Post by: ONeill on August 26, 2018, 08:20:31 PM
And unfortunately I can't forget them.