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GAA Discussion => GAA Discussion => Topic started by: High Fielder on July 21, 2018, 06:37:09 PM

Title: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: High Fielder on July 21, 2018, 06:37:09 PM
The game has turned into a farce. It's not Gaelic Football. It's a hybrid Basketball/Rugby League game now. Actually kicking the ball is the stuff of history. No wonder people are walking away. Boring as f**k
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jinxy on July 21, 2018, 06:38:59 PM
No, you're wrong.
It's better than it has ever been.
Apparently.
Which is why people who've played and watched the game for decades can't be arsed with it anymore.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: High Fielder on July 21, 2018, 06:46:45 PM
Robotic stuff. Mind numbing. No fun at all
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: bennydorano on July 21, 2018, 06:48:40 PM
First year ever (well, since childhood) that i havent went to one Armagh match, McKenna Cup, League or Championship - and we're relatively easy on the eye!
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: befair on July 21, 2018, 06:53:49 PM
Desperately need a rule to make the massed defence redundant; club football is even worse than county football for this stuff
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: inthrough on July 21, 2018, 07:02:59 PM
Change the fecking record.

One thing that is worse than football are these mind numbing threads.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: High Fielder on July 21, 2018, 07:06:59 PM
Ha ha. McCann just rugby tackled a Dublin lad and didn't even get a card. Pathetic stuff. GAA groupies defending the indefensible
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: CumminsCiderLarry on July 21, 2018, 10:41:21 PM
Ha ha. McCann just rugby tackled a Dublin lad and didn't even get a card. Pathetic stuff. GAA groupies defending the indefensible

Never a black card. Dublin player dived.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: An Watcher on July 21, 2018, 11:00:32 PM
The title of this thread needs changes to intercounty football.  Club football is still very entertaining
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: JoG2 on July 21, 2018, 11:03:50 PM
The title of this thread needs changes to intercounty football.  Club football is still very entertaining

And county u20 / minor.. It's the future  ;)
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: ONeill on July 21, 2018, 11:13:52 PM
Watch club football.

And leave county football to us frowners who love the offside trap.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: sid waddell on July 21, 2018, 11:19:37 PM
The title of this thread needs changes to intercounty football.  Club football is still very entertaining
You mustn't have watched the last four All-Ireland club finals.

Tyrone v Dublin this evening was light years ahead both in quality and entertainment.

Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: longballin on July 21, 2018, 11:21:12 PM
The title of this thread needs changes to intercounty football.  Club football is still very entertaining
You mustn't have watched the last four All-Ireland club finals.

Tyrone v Dublin this evening was light years ahead both in quality and entertainment.

but overall not just some selected games club football is much better
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: sid waddell on July 21, 2018, 11:45:31 PM
The title of this thread needs changes to intercounty football.  Club football is still very entertaining
You mustn't have watched the last four All-Ireland club finals.

Tyrone v Dublin this evening was light years ahead both in quality and entertainment.

but overall not just some selected games club football is much better
Overall, club football is light years behind.

Most of it is absolute dirge.

The real stuff is played at inter-county level.

Club football is kids stuff by comparison.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: High Fielder on July 22, 2018, 12:10:05 AM
If by real stuff you mean uncompetitive and repetitive then fair enough. Dublin are the best exponents of the modern game, but they're hardly exciting are they? I'm just expressing a personal opinion here. I find modern intercounty football dull. The endless hand passing, the lack of physicality, the handbags blow ups, the make it up as you go along refereeing, the atmosphere at matches etc. Modern football is rubbish in my opinion
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: longballin on July 22, 2018, 12:13:35 AM
If by real stuff you mean uncompetitive and repetitive then fair enough. Dublin are the best exponents of the modern game, but they're hardly exciting are they? I'm just expressing a personal opinion here. I find modern intercounty football dull. The endless hand passing, the lack of physicality, the handbags blow ups, the make it up as you go along refereeing, the atmosphere at matches etc. Modern football is rubbish in my opinion

have to agree  with you for the most part although was a great atmosphere in Omagh with a full house and the Dubs there and wasn't the worst game.. but yeah most tends to be rubbish at county level these days
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: sid waddell on July 22, 2018, 12:14:48 AM
The title of this thread needs changes to intercounty football.  Club football is still very entertaining
You mustn't have watched the last four All-Ireland club finals.

Tyrone v Dublin this evening was light years ahead both in quality and entertainment.

but overall not just some selected games club football is much better
Overall, club football is light years behind.

Most of it is absolute dirge.

The real stuff is played at inter-county level.

Club football is kids stuff by comparison.

suppose it depends on what county you are in. Are you from Kilkenny?  ah you're the eejit was cheering that England would win the World Cup  :D
I live in Galway but I'm from Dublin, which has the strongest club championship in the country, year on year.

I can tell you that entertainment was in pretty short supply in the 2017 Dublin SFC.

The Galway SFC is a glorified turkey shoot for Corofin, and it's far from the only club championship in the country which has such a situation.

Does 19 out of 20 Armagh titles for Crossmaglen ring a bell?

Club football in general tends to showcase poor skills, poor tactics, poor fitness, poor attendances and poor entertainment.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: thejuice on July 22, 2018, 12:16:14 AM
Not only is it becoming something no one wants to watch it’s becoming a game no one wants to play. The amount of lads walking off panels or turning down a place on the squad is ever growing.

Supposedly Kevin Walsh has had 52 players either leave or refuse to join the squad in the last two years. I can’t say if that’s true but if it is it’s staggering that they’re even competing. Meath, Derry, Offaly and Cork have all experienced similar the last few years.

It’s not just that players don’t think they can compete or meet the demands of training it’s also they simply don’t like playing in these “systems”. It’s not enjoyable.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: longballin on July 22, 2018, 12:19:52 AM
I suppose depends on the county... is a great senior club championship in Tyrone as well as at Intermediate and Junior. Any of 8 teams at least could win the seniors and recently was 7 different winners in 7 years and usually big crowds and hughly competitive good games. Most here enjoy it more than county football I think is true to say.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: ONeill on July 22, 2018, 12:31:51 AM
Not only is it becoming something no one wants to watch it’s becoming a game no one wants to play. The amount of lads walking off panels or turning down a place on the squad is ever growing.

Supposedly Kevin Walsh has had 52 players either leave or refuse to join the squad in the last two years. I can’t say if that’s true but if it is it’s staggering that they’re even competing. Meath, Derry, Offaly and Cork have all experienced similar the last few years.

It’s not just that players don’t think they can compete or meet the demands of training it’s also they simply don’t like playing in these “systems”. It’s not enjoyable.

So.

Play club football then.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: High Fielder on July 22, 2018, 12:32:41 AM
I think we've reached a point where certain matches have no business being played. Mismatches on a scale not seen anywhere near as regularly as in the GAA. Crowds disappearing and players walking away. Hardly a recipe for future wellbeing. I personally think county boundaries are an inadequate way of splitting up the GAA community. I don't ever see a time when imbalances can be redressed. And for me, that makes the GAA anti competitive
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Mayo4Sam14 on July 22, 2018, 01:10:34 AM
I think we've reached a point where certain matches have no business being played. Mismatches on a scale not seen anywhere near as regularly as in the GAA. Crowds disappearing and players walking away. Hardly a recipe for future wellbeing. I personally think county boundaries are an inadequate way of splitting up the GAA community. I don't ever see a time when imbalances can be redressed. And for me, that makes the GAA anti competitive

Well what’s the alternative?
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: High Fielder on July 22, 2018, 03:20:16 AM
Professional franchises maybe? Who knows. In my opinion the county model is broken beyond repair. It's not Dublin's problem that they're as far ahead as they are, and they deserve their success because they've worked hard for it. But the resources they have available to them in comparison to so many counties, maybe even all, is unfathomable. And no, I have no interest in splitting Dublin. But I also know I would struggle to sell inter county football to a good young player in a small county, and that needs to be looked at
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: weareros on July 22, 2018, 03:34:34 AM
Professional franchises maybe? Who knows. In my opinion the county model is broken beyond repair. It's not Dublin's problem that they're as far ahead as they are, and they deserve their success because they've worked hard for it. But the resources they have available to them in comparison to so many counties, maybe even all, is unfathomable. And no, I have no interest in splitting Dublin. But I also know I would struggle to sell inter county football to a good young player in a small county, and that needs to be looked at

You are correct. New generations have zero interest in their county population of 25-50,000 (and a lot of that greying) getting hammered by county of 125k to 250k. There's in most cases a 2x advantage, often 5x and sometimes 10x.

On top of the huge disadvantage of smaller pick, how is the smaller populated county expected the raise the funds to complete with the big counties?

It's dying. The elite counties will play amongst themselves, but less and less will be watching or interested.






Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: An Watcher on July 22, 2018, 07:57:25 AM
I think the all Ireland club championship is a fantastic competition.  Ulster alone is great viewing
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: smelmoth on July 22, 2018, 09:46:01 AM
Starting from scratch you wouldn’t use the county system. We are so conditioned to it and identify with it I cannot see us ever moving away from it.

But the game needs fundamental change. I don’t think we have to sacrifice everything in the name of entertainment but at the same time there isn’t much point winning a competition that nobody follows anymore
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: High Fielder on July 22, 2018, 11:22:38 AM
Bite the bullet and go professional. The best players in the country, irrespective of where their from, need to have access to the highest levels of the game. That will never happen with the county system. I don't know of any other sport where your address dictates what you can potentially achieve. There are some very good footballers in smaller counties who have to be wondering why they bother, and there's nothing they can do about it. We do our best hyping up what we have, but in some cases it's like asking Fleetwood to compete with a Manchester United and then some critics saying well they need to up their game. It's all got very boring
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jinxy on July 22, 2018, 11:50:37 AM
Who would actually want to watch professional gaelic football?
Serious question.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: RedHand88 on July 22, 2018, 11:51:47 AM
Bite the bullet and go professional. The best players in the country, irrespective of where their from, need to have access to the highest levels of the game. That will never happen with the county system. I don't know of any other sport where your address dictates what you can potentially achieve. There are some very good footballers in smaller counties who have to be wondering why they bother, and there's nothing they can do about it. We do our best hyping up what we have, but in some cases it's like asking Fleetwood to compete with a Manchester United and then some critics saying well they need to up their game. It's all got very boring

Any international sport.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: RedHand88 on July 22, 2018, 11:54:39 AM
Professional franchises maybe? Who knows. In my opinion the county model is broken beyond repair. It's not Dublin's problem that they're as far ahead as they are, and they deserve their success because they've worked hard for it. But the resources they have available to them in comparison to so many counties, maybe even all, is unfathomable. And no, I have no interest in splitting Dublin. But I also know I would struggle to sell inter county football to a good young player in a small county, and that needs to be looked at

You are correct. New generations have zero interest in their county population of 25-50,000 (and a lot of that greying) getting hammered by county of 125k to 250k. There's in most cases a 2x advantage, often 5x and sometimes 10x.

On top of the huge disadvantage of smaller pick, how is the smaller populated county expected the raise the funds to complete with the big counties?

It's dying. The elite counties will play amongst themselves, but less and less will be watching or interested.

Ask Monaghan, the fourth smallest county by population, playing today to advance to the all Ireland semi final and have been consistently in Division 1 of the league for years.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: thewobbler on July 22, 2018, 11:59:25 AM
Bite the bullet and go professional. The best players in the country, irrespective of where their from, need to have access to the highest levels of the game. That will never happen with the county system. I don't know of any other sport where your address dictates what you can potentially achieve. There are some very good footballers in smaller counties who have to be wondering why they bother, and there's nothing they can do about it. We do our best hyping up what we have, but in some cases it's like asking Fleetwood to compete with a Manchester United and then some critics saying well they need to up their game. It's all got very boring

Anytime this idea is brought up, I point people towards two competitions: the now deceased Railway Cup and the Sigerson Cup.

Technically the Railway Cup is the highest possible level of Gaelic Football. And it could even tap into provincial loyalties as they have in rugby. Yet although the absolute cream of crop played in it throughout the noughties, crowds decreased to sizes smaller than the number of competitors.

Meanwhile, the Sigerson Cup, is clearly the second highest form of football in Ireland. It enjoys significant investment, high-profile coaches, outstanding training facilities. And it should be able to tap into extensive loyalty in the form of former players and general alumni. The end result? Crowds on average smaller than an intermediate club league match.

——

What am I getting at here?

GAA fans go to watch their club and their county. They rarely go to watch any given individual, and even when a Harlem Globetrotters style team is pulled together a la Ulster in the early noughties, nobody gives one flying f**k.

The only potential avenue for professionalism in the GAA would be to bin the county system as 32 teams wouldn’t be sustainable, and as such, transfers would be required.... at which point the county system would be naturally destroyed.

At which point the question would really need to be ask about where these pro teams would actually play.

I would confidently predict that Professionalism in the GAA would have the same shelf life as the Tommy Murphy Cup.

Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: smelmoth on July 22, 2018, 12:15:55 PM
The chances of professionalism being the answer to the games ills are NIL. Why? Because the chances of professionalism working at all are Nil.

Think of some lad who has the chance of getting a slot as he 3rd choice goalkeeper in the Franchise Squad based in Galway? How much would he get paid for his professional efforts and foregoing any other career or job?

Professional team sport takes care of kids years before the play a top flight game and compensates them for the fact that on retirement they have reduced skills and earning capacity for the everyday labour market.

It will not work
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: RedHand88 on July 22, 2018, 12:55:22 PM
The money just is not there to pay so many players a salary. Would take a serious outside investment.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: smelmoth on July 22, 2018, 01:03:40 PM
The money just is not there to pay so many players a salary. Would take a serious outside investment.

10 franchises with squads of 40 (from junior apprentice to superstar) and an average all in cost of employment of €75k (including paying out the contracts of injured and out of form players) requires an annual investment of €30m.

Who would watch it? What would the amateurs play?
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: RedHand88 on July 22, 2018, 01:34:41 PM
The money just is not there to pay so many players a salary. Would take a serious outside investment.

10 franchises with squads of 40 (from junior apprentice to superstar) and an average all in cost of employment of €75k (including paying out the contracts of injured and out of form players) requires an annual investment of €30m.

Who would watch it? What would the amateurs play?

The day they scrap they county system is the day I stop watching. So many people have immense pride in their county and the idea of cheering for a franchise spread across several counties is the day the game dies.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: inthrough on July 22, 2018, 01:45:40 PM
The money just is not there to pay so many players a salary. Would take a serious outside investment.

Loose change to Sky, you would also have "franchises" based across the water & they would sell it big time worldwide to the Irish.

They have done it with rugby & cricket already not to mention soccer in the USA.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: High Fielder on July 22, 2018, 02:00:21 PM
I won't disagree with any of the above. I could fully understand the indifference towards a non community based team. But the fact remains that we repeat what we do in one way or another year after year and because of many different factors, it cannot change. I have no interest in the status quo and unless you're from one of the elite counties, I don't know how you could get excited about the way things are. I loved me County and would follow them anywhere, and small triumphs mean a lot. But in an overall context, I'm losing interest
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: ardtole on July 22, 2018, 02:04:49 PM
I have to agree high fielder. I never thought I would ever say it, but county football is getting harder and harder to watch.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jinxy on July 22, 2018, 02:18:47 PM
And yet, I'm genuinely enjoying this game in Newbridge.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: mrdeeds on July 22, 2018, 02:23:38 PM
And yet, I'm genuinely enjoying this game in Newbridge.

Excellent game. Enjoyed last nights Dublin and Tyrone game and also a pleasure to watch Murphy's performance.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: ONeill on July 22, 2018, 02:50:19 PM
Game has couped though.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: mrdeeds on July 22, 2018, 03:19:26 PM
Game has couped though.

Yeah red hasn't helped.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: longballin on July 22, 2018, 03:26:30 PM
Game has couped though.

has but this weekend has been better
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on July 22, 2018, 03:32:49 PM
Probably a premature obituary - keep her in the can lad. ;)
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: High Fielder on July 22, 2018, 03:50:18 PM
A few good games a year does not make a Championship. And if it does, we can eliminate all that has gone before and cut straight to the Super 8's.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: longballin on July 22, 2018, 03:54:33 PM
Probably a premature obituary - keep her in the can lad. ;)

not dead on a life support machine    : ) 2 swallows don't make a summer neither do two good games
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: omaghjoe on July 22, 2018, 07:24:29 PM
Probably a premature obituary - keep her in the can lad. ;)

not dead on a life support machine    : ) 2 swallows don't make a summer neither do two good games

It used to and thanks to TG4 we know that those "good" ones werent even that good
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: longballin on July 22, 2018, 07:57:37 PM
Probably a premature obituary - keep her in the can lad. ;)

not dead on a life support machine    : ) 2 swallows don't make a summer neither do two good games

It used to and thanks to TG4 we know that those "good" ones werent even that good

no-one mentioned those old games shown on TG4 but there were loads of great games during the noughties involving Tyrone, Armagh, Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, Donegal even Sligo....so good  Ulster finals had to move to Croke Park
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: sid waddell on July 22, 2018, 08:47:08 PM
Probably a premature obituary - keep her in the can lad. ;)

not dead on a life support machine    : ) 2 swallows don't make a summer neither do two good games

It used to and thanks to TG4 we know that those "good" ones werent even that good

no-one mentioned those old games shown on TG4 but there were loads of great games during the noughties involving Tyrone, Armagh, Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, Donegal even Sligo....so good  Ulster finals had to move to Croke Park
And loads of crap games between them.

Armagh v Tyrone 2000
Tyrone v Kerry 2003
Tyrone v Armagh 2003
Tyrone v Dublin 2008
Kerry v Dublin 2009
Kerry v Dublin 2004
Kerry v Mayo 2004
Kerry v Mayo 2006
Armagh v Donegal 2002
Armagh v Donegal 2004
Armagh v Donegal 2006
Armagh v Donegal 2007
Dublin v Donegal 2002
Tyrone v Donegal 2007
Tyrone v Mayo 2008

Throw in Cork, too.

All the following games were crap.

Kerry v Cork 2002 x 3
Kerry v Cork 2004
Kerry v Cork 2005
Kerry v Cork 2006 x 2
Kerry v Cork 2007
Cork v Meath 2007
Kerry v Cork 2009 final
Cork v Donegal 2009

Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: longballin on July 22, 2018, 08:52:03 PM
Probably a premature obituary - keep her in the can lad. ;)

not dead on a life support machine    : ) 2 swallows don't make a summer neither do two good games

It used to and thanks to TG4 we know that those "good" ones werent even that good

no-one mentioned those old games shown on TG4 but there were loads of great games during the noughties involving Tyrone, Armagh, Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, Donegal even Sligo....so good  Ulster finals had to move to Croke Park
And loads of crap games between them.

Armagh v Tyrone 2000
Tyrone v Kerry 2003
Tyrone v Armagh 2003
Tyrone v Dublin 2008
Kerry v Dublin 2009
Kerry v Dublin 2004
Kerry v Mayo 2004
Kerry v Mayo 2006
Armagh v Donegal 2002
Armagh v Donegal 2004
Armagh v Donegal 2006
Armagh v Donegal 20 :D07
Dublin v Donegal 2002
Tyrone v Donegal 2007
Tyrone v Mayo 2008

Throw in Cork, too.

All the following games were crap.

Kerry v Cork 2002 x 3
Kerry v Cork 2004
Kerry v Cork 2005
Kerry v Cork 2006 x 2
Kerry v Cork 2007
Cork v Meath 2007
Kerry v Cork 2009 final
Cork v Donegal 2009

you've too much time on your hands since your heros England went out of the World Cup    :D
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: From the Bunker on July 22, 2018, 08:57:26 PM
Probably a premature obituary - keep her in the can lad. ;)

not dead on a life support machine    : ) 2 swallows don't make a summer neither do two good games

It used to and thanks to TG4 we know that those "good" ones werent even that good

no-one mentioned those old games shown on TG4 but there were loads of great games during the noughties involving Tyrone, Armagh, Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, Donegal even Sligo....so good  Ulster finals had to move to Croke Park
And loads of crap games between them.

Armagh v Tyrone 2000
Tyrone v Kerry 2003
Tyrone v Armagh 2003
Tyrone v Dublin 2008
Kerry v Dublin 2009
Kerry v Dublin 2004
Kerry v Mayo 2004
Kerry v Mayo 2006
Armagh v Donegal 2002
Armagh v Donegal 2004
Armagh v Donegal 2006
Armagh v Donegal 20 :D07
Dublin v Donegal 2002
Tyrone v Donegal 2007
Tyrone v Mayo 2008

Throw in Cork, too.

All the following games were crap.

Kerry v Cork 2002 x 3
Kerry v Cork 2004
Kerry v Cork 2005
Kerry v Cork 2006 x 2
Kerry v Cork 2007
Cork v Meath 2007
Kerry v Cork 2009 final
Cork v Donegal 2009

you've too much time on your hands since your heros England went out of the World Cup    :D

With the time to come up with a list like that, you deserve to be subjected to the rubbish that is the super 8.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: sid waddell on July 22, 2018, 08:59:35 PM
Probably a premature obituary - keep her in the can lad. ;)

not dead on a life support machine    : ) 2 swallows don't make a summer neither do two good games

It used to and thanks to TG4 we know that those "good" ones werent even that good

no-one mentioned those old games shown on TG4 but there were loads of great games during the noughties involving Tyrone, Armagh, Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, Donegal even Sligo....so good  Ulster finals had to move to Croke Park
And loads of crap games between them.

Armagh v Tyrone 2000
Tyrone v Kerry 2003
Tyrone v Armagh 2003
Tyrone v Dublin 2008
Kerry v Dublin 2009
Kerry v Dublin 2004
Kerry v Mayo 2004
Kerry v Mayo 2006
Armagh v Donegal 2002
Armagh v Donegal 2004
Armagh v Donegal 2006
Armagh v Donegal 2007
Dublin v Donegal 2002
Tyrone v Donegal 2007
Tyrone v Mayo 2008

Throw in Cork, too.

All the following games were crap.

Kerry v Cork 2002 x 3
Kerry v Cork 2004
Kerry v Cork 2005
Kerry v Cork 2006 x 2
Kerry v Cork 2007
Cork v Meath 2007
Kerry v Cork 2009 final
Cork v Donegal 2009

you've too much time on your hands since your heros England went out of the World Cup    :D

It didn't take too long to remember all those games, believe me, though I'd probabaly prefer to forget them. I was at many of them.

But sure carry on believing what you want to believe through your rose-tinted nostalgia goggles, by all means.

Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: inthrough on July 22, 2018, 09:02:28 PM
Probably a premature obituary - keep her in the can lad. ;)

not dead on a life support machine    : ) 2 swallows don't make a summer neither do two good games
I would love to know when the golden age of football was that leaves present day football so bad. I watched a few of the reruns of AI finals & the standard is woeful, so woeful in fact it is funny.

Just when was it that football was uniformly fantastic?
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Champion The Wonder Horse on July 22, 2018, 09:03:21 PM
I'd take a lot of this weekend's entertainment ahead of most of the 70s, 80s, latter 90s, 00s and 10s.

Current Dublin team light years ahead of any other outfit.

Apart from Wexford 1915 - 18.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: sid waddell on July 22, 2018, 09:08:22 PM
Probably a premature obituary - keep her in the can lad. ;)

not dead on a life support machine    : ) 2 swallows don't make a summer neither do two good games
I would love to know when the golden age of football was that leaves present day football so bad. I watched a few of the reruns of AI finals & the standard is woeful, so woeful in fact it is funny.

Just when was it that football was uniformly fantastic?

I think it was when the aging, middle aged, pot bellied, balding moaners on this thread were young, and everything was better, even if it was shit.

They say once you pass 35 everything new becomes threatening.

That seems to hold true here, anyway.

Apologies to any aging, middle aged, pot bellied, balding contributors who are not moaners.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: clarshack on July 22, 2018, 09:11:20 PM
I'd take a lot of this weekend's entertainment ahead of most of the 70s, 80s, latter 90s, 00s and 10s.

Current Dublin team light years ahead of any other outfit.

Apart from Wexford 1915 - 18.

Dublin are at same level of Tyrone, Armagh & Kerry in the noughties.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Champion The Wonder Horse on July 22, 2018, 09:48:59 PM
I'd take a lot of this weekend's entertainment ahead of most of the 70s, 80s, latter 90s, 00s and 10s.

Current Dublin team light years ahead of any other outfit.

Apart from Wexford 1915 - 18.

Dublin are at same level of Tyrone, Armagh & Kerry in the noughties.

No they aren't. Clear blue water between them and the three you mentioned. Imagine wining three in a row without resorting to the back door.

Have you been drinking?
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: From the Bunker on July 22, 2018, 09:53:07 PM
I'd take a lot of this weekend's entertainment ahead of most of the 70s, 80s, latter 90s, 00s and 10s.

Current Dublin team light years ahead of any other outfit.

Apart from Wexford 1915 - 18.

Dublin are at same level of Tyrone, Armagh & Kerry in the noughties.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: sid waddell on July 22, 2018, 09:59:53 PM
Tyrone, Armagh and Kerry of the 00s were no more at the same level as Dublin of the 10s than Down, Dublin or Derry of the 90s were at the same level as Tyrone, Armagh and Kerry of the 00s.

The game is constantly moving on.

Tyrone were knocked out of the championship by Sligo, Mayo, Laois and Meath. Armagh were knocked out by Fermanagh and should have been knocked out by Sligo.

The current Dublin team would pummel all of those teams and they'd comfortably beat the top teams of the time.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: seafoid on July 22, 2018, 10:04:16 PM
Not only is it becoming something no one wants to watch it’s becoming a game no one wants to play. The amount of lads walking off panels or turning down a place on the squad is ever growing.

Supposedly Kevin Walsh has had 52 players either leave or refuse to join the squad in the last two years. I can’t say if that’s true but if it is it’s staggering that they’re even competing. Meath, Derry, Offaly and Cork have all experienced similar the last few years.

It’s not just that players don’t think they can compete or meet the demands of training it’s also they simply don’t like playing in these “systems”. It’s not enjoyable.
It takes 3-4 years of S&C to get a good u21 up to speed for senior intercounty in hurling. Football must be the same.
That is a huge commitment
And you can't just lob it into the square now.. You have to have runners off the shoulder. It's more systemic than intuitive. 
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: trileacman on July 23, 2018, 12:27:18 AM
Probably a premature obituary - keep her in the can lad. ;)

not dead on a life support machine    : ) 2 swallows don't make a summer neither do two good games

It used to and thanks to TG4 we know that those "good" ones werent even that good

no-one mentioned those old games shown on TG4 but there were loads of great games during the noughties involving Tyrone, Armagh, Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, Donegal even Sligo....so good  Ulster finals had to move to Croke Park
And loads of crap games between them.

Armagh v Tyrone 2000
Tyrone v Kerry 2003
Tyrone v Armagh 2003
Tyrone v Dublin 2008
Kerry v Dublin 2009
Kerry v Dublin 2004
Kerry v Mayo 2004
Kerry v Mayo 2006
Armagh v Donegal 2002
Armagh v Donegal 2004
Armagh v Donegal 2006
Armagh v Donegal 2007
Dublin v Donegal 2002
Tyrone v Donegal 2007
Tyrone v Mayo 2008

Throw in Cork, too.

All the following games were crap.

Kerry v Cork 2002 x 3
Kerry v Cork 2004
Kerry v Cork 2005
Kerry v Cork 2006 x 2
Kerry v Cork 2007
Cork v Meath 2007
Kerry v Cork 2009 final
Cork v Donegal 2009

Most of those games maybe weren’t high scoring but they carried major significance in many ways. Tyrone Kerry was a giant slaying at the time that raised huge level of comment in the gaa world. It would stoke up tensions that contributed to a great rivalry and huge interest in the decades games.

Likewise Tyrone Armagh final wasn’t a great match but still a great atmosphere. If Monaghan go on to win the ai title this year by 12 to Dublin’s 9 you could hardly say it’s a dire moment for Gaelic football.

The main problem is the predictability and lack of competitiveness that exists now. Dublin’s dominance hangs like a cloud over the sport, belittling the achievements of good sides like and destroying the football traditions of the Leinster teams.

Some games are poor but blanket defences can still afford the few good matches a year that we always had. It’s the competitive gap that has opened up between Dublin and the div 1 sides and the div 1 sides and the rest that is killing the game and the interest in it.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: sid waddell on July 23, 2018, 08:51:59 AM
Probably a premature obituary - keep her in the can lad. ;)

not dead on a life support machine    : ) 2 swallows don't make a summer neither do two good games

It used to and thanks to TG4 we know that those "good" ones werent even that good

no-one mentioned those old games shown on TG4 but there were loads of great games during the noughties involving Tyrone, Armagh, Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, Donegal even Sligo....so good  Ulster finals had to move to Croke Park
And loads of crap games between them.

Armagh v Tyrone 2000
Tyrone v Kerry 2003
Tyrone v Armagh 2003
Tyrone v Dublin 2008
Kerry v Dublin 2009
Kerry v Dublin 2004
Kerry v Mayo 2004
Kerry v Mayo 2006
Armagh v Donegal 2002
Armagh v Donegal 2004
Armagh v Donegal 2006
Armagh v Donegal 2007
Dublin v Donegal 2002
Tyrone v Donegal 2007
Tyrone v Mayo 2008

Throw in Cork, too.

All the following games were crap.

Kerry v Cork 2002 x 3
Kerry v Cork 2004
Kerry v Cork 2005
Kerry v Cork 2006 x 2
Kerry v Cork 2007
Cork v Meath 2007
Kerry v Cork 2009 final
Cork v Donegal 2009

Most of those games maybe weren’t high scoring but they carried major significance in many ways. Tyrone Kerry was a giant slaying at the time that raised huge level of comment in the gaa world. It would stoke up tensions that contributed to a great rivalry and huge interest in the decades games.

Likewise Tyrone Armagh final wasn’t a great match but still a great atmosphere. If Monaghan go on to win the ai title this year by 12 to Dublin’s 9 you could hardly say it’s a dire moment for Gaelic football.

The main problem is the predictability and lack of competitiveness that exists now. Dublin’s dominance hangs like a cloud over the sport, belittling the achievements of good sides like and destroying the football traditions of the Leinster teams.

Some games are poor but blanket defences can still afford the few good matches a year that we always had. It’s the competitive gap that has opened up between Dublin and the div 1 sides and the div 1 sides and the rest that is killing the game and the interest in it.

Tyrone v Kerry 2003 certainly carried major significance. Attending that as a neutral against Kerry (as I always am, as a Dub), I found it it fascinating, tense, grimly compelling. 

But there's no way to argue it was a classic football game, it was an absolute dogfight. It scandalised the easily shocked sections of the Gaelic football world at the time in a similar manner to how the easily shocked sections of this board are scandalised by current day Gaelic football.

Dublin v Donegal 2011 carried similar such significance, and again, I found it grimly compelling. That was the same Donegal team that had been beaten out the gate in the previous two years by Cork and Armagh and the same team that would go on to win the All-Ireland in devastatingly effective style the next year.

In reality, what has happened in Gaelic football this decade isn't a whole lot different from what happened in the 2000s.

You say Dublin's presence hangs like a cloud over the sport, yet Dublin's All-Ireland final record in this decade reads as follows:
Won by 1
Won by 1
Won by 3
Draw
Won by 1
Won by 1

Their semi-final record since 2011 is:
Won by 2
Lost by 3
Won by 7 (a game that was level after 69 minutes)
Lost by 6
Draw
Won by 6 (Mayo led by 4 with 17 minutes left)
Won by 2
Won by 12

In 14 All-Ireland semi-finals and finals, only once have they "done a job" on the opposition, and that was the semi-final against Tyrone last year.

In every other one of those 13 games, they either didn't win, or could have lost had a little thing or two worked out differently.

In reality, since 2011, Dublin have never been that far ahead of Mayo or Kerry, or Donegal up to 2014.

Like any team, they rely on key individuals, and some of those key individuals have either already departed, declined significantly, or are beginning to decline.

In the 2000s, there was a clear hierarchy in the game. Up to 2001, Kerry, Meath and Galway were the three clear front runners.

Then Meath and Galway declined and Tyrone and Armagh took their places until Armagh declined rapidly after 2006 and Tyrone began to decline gradually after 2008.

But Kerry's presence in 2000s football "hung like a cloud". They reached eight All-Ireland finals in the decade and won five. They reached six in a row from 2004 to 2009.

Three of the finals they won were total massacres.

Dublin do and have had have competition, serious competition, from counties who take the game seriously. Mayo, Kerry, Donegal. Galway are joining that bracket now. Tyrone caught a tarter last year but are a serious football county. Kildare mightn't be far away.

The counties who are genuinely serious about competing will compete. Those who aren't, like Meath, Down, Derry and now Cork, won't.

Gaelic football is no different in that regard than it has always been.





Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: TheClubman on July 23, 2018, 09:05:20 AM
Not only is it becoming something no one wants to watch it’s becoming a game no one wants to play. The amount of lads walking off panels or turning down a place on the squad is ever growing.

Supposedly Kevin Walsh has had 52 players either leave or refuse to join the squad in the last two years. I can’t say if that’s true but if it is it’s staggering that they’re even competing. Meath, Derry, Offaly and Cork have all experienced similar the last few years.

It’s not just that players don’t think they can compete or meet the demands of training it’s also they simply don’t like playing in these “systems”. It’s not enjoyable.
It takes 3-4 years of S&C to get a good u21 up to speed for senior intercounty in hurling. Football must be the same.
That is a huge commitment
And you can't just lob it into the square now.. You have to have runners off the shoulder. It's more systemic than intuitive.


David Clifford is 19. He seems to be doing ok.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: TheClubman on July 23, 2018, 09:09:32 AM
The nature of the game has changed greatly in the last 15 years and many can't accept the new version. It's not as helter skelter, cut and thrust as it used to be but it's a lot more thought out and tactical. Personally I like the tactical battle and seeing the ways good, top quality teams and individuals can beat defensive structures. We're actually seeing higher average scores in intercounty (don't have the stats but read it somewhere). The Super 8 games bar the ones involving Roscommon have been good tactical battles. If that doesn't entertain people that's fine and the diminishing crowds seem to suggest that. I for one though have enjoyed the games even if I'm not comfortable with the whole concept.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: APM on July 23, 2018, 09:18:07 AM
How much have the diminishing crowds to do with prices.  How much was it in to the Hyde and Clones at the weekend?
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: TheGreatest on July 23, 2018, 09:27:57 AM
A serious ridiculous thread. Football now is a good as its ever been. More skilful and athletic. Tactics applied may vary but some great games this year. Some not so great but good tense games, like Dubs v Tyrone.

People still living in the past. The modern games exceeds all.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Farrandeelin on July 23, 2018, 10:10:34 AM
A serious ridiculous thread. Football now is a good as its ever been. More skilful and athletic. Tactics applied may vary but some great games this year. Some not so great but good tense games, like Dubs v Tyrone.

People still living in the past. The modern games exceeds all.

I don't often agree with you. But you're spot on with this one.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: High Fielder on July 23, 2018, 10:18:07 AM
I created the thread and stand by the title. In my opinion, most inter county football matches are boring. Most inter county football matches are mismatches. There is an over reliance on hand passing and because fitness levels have increased, the pitch is too crowded and space to express individual skill is limited. This means we have this hybrid basketball/rugby league shite going on and players are being prepared accordingly. Dublin would kick seven shades of shite out of Dublin or Kerry from the 70s but I wouldn't pay to watch them do it. Why? Because modern football, in my opinion, is pretty boring to watch. I have no issue with people disagreeing with that and fair play if the modern game floats your boat. Just not my cup of tea.

Aside from the above,  I also have no interest watching the same teams play for the same trophies every year. There is no incentive whatsoever for small counties to play in the Championship. From the time of inception the Super 8s, with the exception of Mayo's absence, were largely prescribed. Again, not for me.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: APM on July 23, 2018, 10:34:49 AM
A serious ridiculous thread. Football now is a good as its ever been. More skilful and athletic. Tactics applied may vary but some great games this year. Some not so great but good tense games, like Dubs v Tyrone.

People still living in the past. The modern games exceeds all.

The two games yesterday were excellent.  But they aren't all like that. If you don't see a problem, you need to explain why the numbers through the gates are down so badly.  I've posted on this before, see below, and reckon its a combination of the type of football, hammerings, lack of intensity and flat atmosphere.  I see the flat atmosphere and reduced crowds as a viscous circle.  Smaller crowd > worse atmosphere > Smaller crowds.  The atmosphere isn't helped by the stuff on the pitch either, when we have this game of chess going on. 

It's a number of things:
Not as good to watch
The blanket means that as a spectacle the game isn't as good.  I don't care what anyone says, but this business of passing the ball around in an arc around the 50 is not as good to watch as quick ball into a the full forward line, with guys like Mickey Linden, Marsden, Canavan and McDonnell out in front of their marker and taking on their men.  We just don't see as much of this in today's game as 2001.

Perception and negativity
Why would I be bothered going to games if the so-called experts keep telling me that the product is rubbish.  Notwithstanding what I have said above, I still get a kick out of watching football and we still have some fantastic games, but when the very pundits that you would expect to be promoting the game on TV are saying that every game is shite, it's little wonder attendances are falling.  The amount of negativity surrounding the games is at an all time high and it is now in vogue at all levels, from pundits down to club level, to criticise county football. 

Hammerings
In 2001 there were some hammerings, but I don't think there were so many as there are now.  Leinster was competitive.  Ulster, despite the fact that two teams dominated from 1999 to 2010, was still competitive.  Dublin matches now literally aren't worth watching until they reach the Semi-Final or Final.  They are playing at a professional level.   

Over Exposure
I remember thinking that with so many games televised and so much coverage back around 04, that supporters would lap it up for a while, but that eventually people would take it for granted and less would do them. Take the first Ulster Final that went to HQ in 2004.  There was 60,000 there.  Only 30,000 for the Ulster Final Replay in '05.  The qualifier effect was alive and well, with Sligo, Fermanagh, Limerick, Derry, Donegal getting good runs.  There were loads of novel pairings - I remember Sligo and Kildare I think attracting a great crowd on a Saturday night around '04.

Half Empty Stadiums
There is rarely a decent atmosphere in a half-full Croke Park.  It looks terrible on TV and exacerbates the notion that we have a poor product.  I cannot understand organisers taking smallish games to big stadiums.  Better to have a small ground filled to capacity, because the atmosphere is all part of the product.

It's worth asking whether there is a fundamental conflict between pleasing the crowd and having tactical / sporting excellence.  Chess doesn't get big crowds either by the way - as a spectator sport it really is the reserve of sporting anoraks.

Also, I'm not a fan of the Spectator, but I thought this was a thought provoking.   
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/07/the-agony-of-world-cup-penalties/

ps - I asked above if ticket prices are an issue.  If it is, the GAA has an obvious choice.  Gate of 8,000 with prices of £10 will generate the same revenue as a gate of £16,000 at a price of £5.  I'd rather be at a game where the stadium is full, that one at a half empty stadium, with a poorer atmosphere.  I'll come away looking for more and if that means greater demand for tickets and motivation for club membership etc, then that's a good thing. 



Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Christmas Lights on July 23, 2018, 10:35:16 AM
If by real stuff you mean uncompetitive and repetitive then fair enough. Dublin are the best exponents of the modern game, but they're hardly exciting are they? I'm just expressing a personal opinion here. I find modern intercounty football dull. The endless hand passing, the lack of physicality, the handbags blow ups, the make it up as you go along refereeing, the atmosphere at matches etc. Modern football is rubbish in my opinion

You're joking here mate right?  Or just on the wind up?  Or just generally thick?
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: High Fielder on July 23, 2018, 10:46:38 AM
I tend not to answer posts with insults. For obvious reasons. Crowding , slapping, spiteful off the ball sledging and handbags shoving contests should not be mistaken for physicality. Modern players have amazing stamina for sure, and there has to be more than a whiff about that too
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jinxy on July 23, 2018, 10:49:53 AM
Plenty of physicality, of the good kind, in both games yesterday.
Players throwing themselves into contact to win the ball.

Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: armaghniac on July 23, 2018, 10:53:14 AM
Quote
Dublin do and have had have competition, serious competition, from counties who take the game seriously. Mayo, Kerry, Donegal. Galway are joining that bracket now. Tyrone caught a tarter last year but are a serious football county. Kildare mightn't be far away
.

Serious counties, their entire total population less than that of Dublin.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: High Fielder on July 23, 2018, 10:55:26 AM
I don't think ticket prices are an issue APM. But indifference is. Knowing the result beforehand, good or bad, will definitely inform your choice. If it's on TV as well, that will seal the deal. People want to be present when there's genuinely something up for grabs. How many Dubs come out of the woodwork from semis onwards
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Christmas Lights on July 23, 2018, 11:00:56 AM
I tend not to answer posts with insults. For obvious reasons. Crowding , slapping, spiteful off the ball sledging and handbags shoving contests should not be mistaken for physicality. Modern players have amazing stamina for sure, and there has to be more than a whiff about that too

I don't think you quite grasp the concept of physicality?  You just have to look at the conditioning of county players nowadays, its probably far more physical now than its even been.  Physicality does not equate to punching someone in the mouth or mowing someone with a late tackle.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: High Fielder on July 23, 2018, 11:09:02 AM
Who said it did? But let's be honest, there's no scope for proper hard tackling any more. Between lads looking for contact and fussy officials, it's gone a bit light. More than the fair share of play acting too. It's no harm for lads to cut stripes off each other. I always think the hurling is a little bit more forgiving in that regard
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jinxy on July 23, 2018, 11:22:05 AM
Maybe it's just years of conditioning, but when a game is televised on SKY (which I don't have), it feels less important to me in the overall scheme of things.
I watched both games live on RTE yesterday and thoroughly enjoyed them.
When I watched the Sunday Game in the evening, I was glued to the highlights for both of those games, but found that I was significantly less interested in the highlights of the games from Saturday.
That probably doesn't even make sense, but that's the way it is for me.
There is far less buzz about the SKY games.
Most people aren't watching them live, so you don't get the same level of discussion on here, or social media.
The two games yesterday were the best games of the weekend, but if they had been shown on SKY, they would not have generated anything like the same level of excitement among the wider GAA community.
If anyone can point out to me the tangible benefits of the SKY deal, I'm all ears, but at the moment it seems like a lose/lose scenario to me.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: JoG2 on July 23, 2018, 11:34:48 AM
Maybe it's just years of conditioning, but when a game is televised on SKY (which I don't have), it feels less important to me in the overall scheme of things.
I watched both games live on RTE yesterday and thoroughly enjoyed them.
When I watched the Sunday Game in the evening, I was glued to the highlights for both of those games, but found that I was significantly less interested in the highlights of the games from Saturday.
That probably doesn't even make sense, but that's the way it is for me.
There is far less buzz about the SKY games.
Most people aren't watching them live, so you don't get the same level of discussion on here, or social media.
The two games yesterday were the best games of the weekend, but if they had been shown on SKY, they would not have generated anything like the same level of excitement among the wider GAA community.
If anyone can point out to me the tangible benefits of the SKY deal, I'm all ears, but at the moment it seems like a lose/lose scenario to me.

At our club game yesterday, of all the people I'd spoke to, I was the only person who'd actually watched the Saturday games, and that was through IPTV.
It seems that those who are happy with the Sky deal are people who've historically paid a subscription to Sky for the premier league or whatever sport they need Sky for. For me it rubber stamps the disconnect between GAA HQ and the regular clubman, and the fact that those who produce the games have to pay a billionaire TV mogul to watch their games...absolutely maddening

From the latest CPA email re the survery:

* 96% of respondents to the survey overwhelmingly agreed that there is a disconnect between the GAA hierarchy and its playing members
 
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: blewuporstuffed on July 23, 2018, 11:41:25 AM
Maybe it's just years of conditioning, but when a game is televised on SKY (which I don't have), it feels less important to me in the overall scheme of things.
I watched both games live on RTE yesterday and thoroughly enjoyed them.
When I watched the Sunday Game in the evening, I was glued to the highlights for both of those games, but found that I was significantly less interested in the highlights of the games from Saturday.
That probably doesn't even make sense, but that's the way it is for me.
There is far less buzz about the SKY games.
Most people aren't watching them live, so you don't get the same level of discussion on here, or social media.
The two games yesterday were the best games of the weekend, but if they had been shown on SKY, they would not have generated anything like the same level of excitement among the wider GAA community.
If anyone can point out to me the tangible benefits of the SKY deal, I'm all ears, but at the moment it seems like a lose/lose scenario to me.
I take your point Jinxy, the lack of acesss to the games by the wider population is a downside of Sky,but for me the main benefit of the SKy coverage is that they actually put a bit of effort in.
The coverage and analysis is top class and way ahead of anything provided by RTE.
Sky are actually positive about the game in general, and analyse and talk about the specific game they are covering rather than half time/post match just being a  soap box for 3 oul fellas lamenting how great the game used to be.
While there are legitimate reasons to be negative about the current game, the constant negativity on RTE has hammered it into the psyche 'this is shite' before a ball is even kicked.
Ideally what i suppose we would like is Skys level of professionalism and promotion of the game , but accessible to all on a free to air channel.
The problem is RTE dont really give a shite, or at least haven't for years. Maybe the penny is starting to drop.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jinxy on July 23, 2018, 11:51:54 AM
Maybe it's just years of conditioning, but when a game is televised on SKY (which I don't have), it feels less important to me in the overall scheme of things.
I watched both games live on RTE yesterday and thoroughly enjoyed them.
When I watched the Sunday Game in the evening, I was glued to the highlights for both of those games, but found that I was significantly less interested in the highlights of the games from Saturday.
That probably doesn't even make sense, but that's the way it is for me.
There is far less buzz about the SKY games.
Most people aren't watching them live, so you don't get the same level of discussion on here, or social media.
The two games yesterday were the best games of the weekend, but if they had been shown on SKY, they would not have generated anything like the same level of excitement among the wider GAA community.
If anyone can point out to me the tangible benefits of the SKY deal, I'm all ears, but at the moment it seems like a lose/lose scenario to me.
I take your point Jinxy, the lack of acesss to the games by the wider population is a downside of Sky,but for me the main benefit of the SKy coverage is that they actually put a bit of effort in.
The coverage and analysis is top class and way ahead of anything provided by RTE.
Sky are actually positive about the game in general, and analyse and talk about the specific game they are covering rather than half time/post match just being a  soap box for 3 oul fellas lamenting how great the game used to be.
While there are legitimate reasons to be negative about the current game, the constant negativity on RTE has hammered it into the psyche 'this is shite' before a ball is even kicked.
Ideally what i suppose we would like is Skys level of professionalism and promotion of the game , but accessible to all on a free to air channel.
The problem is RTE dont really give a shite, or at least haven't for years. Maybe the penny is starting to drop.


With the new head of sport in RTE, hopefully that will happen.
If it does, what would be the argument for retaining the SKY deal?
Not looking to pick a fight with anyone, it's just that I don't see the objective merits of it.
You're dramatically reducing the audience for games, so what's the upside other than using the deal as leverage to keep RTE honest?
For example, if the choice was retaining the SKY deal or reverting to the RTE/TV3 era package, what would we lose by going with the latter?
If the answer is MONEY, what is the SKY deal actually worth?
It wasn't sold initially as a financial decision, if I recall correctly.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: blewuporstuffed on July 23, 2018, 12:00:03 PM
Maybe it's just years of conditioning, but when a game is televised on SKY (which I don't have), it feels less important to me in the overall scheme of things.
I watched both games live on RTE yesterday and thoroughly enjoyed them.
When I watched the Sunday Game in the evening, I was glued to the highlights for both of those games, but found that I was significantly less interested in the highlights of the games from Saturday.
That probably doesn't even make sense, but that's the way it is for me.
There is far less buzz about the SKY games.
Most people aren't watching them live, so you don't get the same level of discussion on here, or social media.
The two games yesterday were the best games of the weekend, but if they had been shown on SKY, they would not have generated anything like the same level of excitement among the wider GAA community.
If anyone can point out to me the tangible benefits of the SKY deal, I'm all ears, but at the moment it seems like a lose/lose scenario to me.
I take your point Jinxy, the lack of acesss to the games by the wider population is a downside of Sky,but for me the main benefit of the SKy coverage is that they actually put a bit of effort in.
The coverage and analysis is top class and way ahead of anything provided by RTE.
Sky are actually positive about the game in general, and analyse and talk about the specific game they are covering rather than half time/post match just being a  soap box for 3 oul fellas lamenting how great the game used to be.
While there are legitimate reasons to be negative about the current game, the constant negativity on RTE has hammered it into the psyche 'this is shite' before a ball is even kicked.
Ideally what i suppose we would like is Skys level of professionalism and promotion of the game , but accessible to all on a free to air channel.
The problem is RTE dont really give a shite, or at least haven't for years. Maybe the penny is starting to drop.


With the new head of sport in RTE, hopefully that will happen.
If it does, what would be the argument for retaining the SKY deal?
Not looking to pick a fight with anyone, it's just that I don't see the objective merits of it.
You're dramatically reducing the audience for games, so what's the upside other than using the deal as leverage to keep RTE honest?
For example, if the choice was retaining the SKY deal or reverting to the RTE/TV3 era package, what would we lose by going with the latter?
If the answer is MONEY, what is the SKY deal actually worth?
It wasn't sold initially as a financial decision, if I recall correctly.
Im not disagreeing here, money shouldnt really come in to it.
The main criteria should be 'which package is the best for the overall promotion of the game'
There is no doubt that making it accessible to as many people as possible certainly promotes the game better, but over the last 10-15 year RTEs constant bashing of the product they are supposed to be trying to promote has certainly had a detrimental effect on how football has been viewed by the wider public.
I am not dismissing some of the legitimate concerns about the current game of football, but I just believe if someone tells you something is shite every week for 10 years, most people start to believe it no matter if its the truth or not.
In my mind this is doing as much damage to the game as having games  on Sky where some cant see them.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jinxy on July 23, 2018, 12:14:34 PM
RTE are phoning in their coverage for years, but it doesn't seem to have a negative effect on viewing numbers.
Basically, there is a large audience (with a lot of casual viewers) that will watch the game if it is on terrestrial TV, regardless of the quality of analysis.
From a promotion perspective, as the viewing numbers are so small I can't see how the SKY deal is a positive, even if the overall presentation is far superior.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: SpeculativeEffort on July 24, 2018, 10:17:07 AM
RTE are phoning in their coverage for years, but it doesn't seem to have a negative effect on viewing numbers.
Basically, there is a large audience (with a lot of casual viewers) that will watch the game if it is on terrestrial TV, regardless of the quality of analysis.
From a promotion perspective, as the viewing numbers are so small I can't see how the SKY deal is a positive, even if the overall presentation is far superior.


Its called the Fair City demographic. Its shite. Everyone knows its shite but there 1/2 a million watching every episode. 🙈
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: our_fella on July 24, 2018, 10:19:39 AM
Its a pity all the matches weren't on SKY.. Coverage and analysis is far far superior
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Dire Ear on July 24, 2018, 10:30:02 AM
Its a pity all the matches weren't on SKY.. Coverage and analysis is far far superior
I'd agree ,  RTE need kicked out of their comfort zone.  TV3 were a step up
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: JoG2 on July 24, 2018, 10:47:46 AM
Its a pity all the matches weren't on SKY.. Coverage and analysis is far far superior

your wish will come true
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Esmarelda on July 24, 2018, 11:57:27 AM
Maybe it's just years of conditioning, but when a game is televised on SKY (which I don't have), it feels less important to me in the overall scheme of things.
I watched both games live on RTE yesterday and thoroughly enjoyed them.
When I watched the Sunday Game in the evening, I was glued to the highlights for both of those games, but found that I was significantly less interested in the highlights of the games from Saturday.
That probably doesn't even make sense, but that's the way it is for me.
There is far less buzz about the SKY games.
Most people aren't watching them live, so you don't get the same level of discussion on here, or social media.
The two games yesterday were the best games of the weekend, but if they had been shown on SKY, they would not have generated anything like the same level of excitement among the wider GAA community.
If anyone can point out to me the tangible benefits of the SKY deal, I'm all ears, but at the moment it seems like a lose/lose scenario to me.
I take your point Jinxy, the lack of acesss to the games by the wider population is a downside of Sky,but for me the main benefit of the SKy coverage is that they actually put a bit of effort in.
The coverage and analysis is top class and way ahead of anything provided by RTE.
Sky are actually positive about the game in general, and analyse and talk about the specific game they are covering rather than half time/post match just being a  soap box for 3 oul fellas lamenting how great the game used to be.
While there are legitimate reasons to be negative about the current game, the constant negativity on RTE has hammered it into the psyche 'this is shite' before a ball is even kicked.
Ideally what i suppose we would like is Skys level of professionalism and promotion of the game , but accessible to all on a free to air channel.
The problem is RTE dont really give a shite, or at least haven't for years. Maybe the penny is starting to drop.


With the new head of sport in RTE, hopefully that will happen.
If it does, what would be the argument for retaining the SKY deal?
Not looking to pick a fight with anyone, it's just that I don't see the objective merits of it.
You're dramatically reducing the audience for games, so what's the upside other than using the deal as leverage to keep RTE honest?
For example, if the choice was retaining the SKY deal or reverting to the RTE/TV3 era package, what would we lose by going with the latter?
If the answer is MONEY, what is the SKY deal actually worth?
It wasn't sold initially as a financial decision, if I recall correctly.
Im not disagreeing here, money shouldnt really come in to it.
The main criteria should be 'which package is the best for the overall promotion of the game'
There is no doubt that making it accessible to as many people as possible certainly promotes the game better, but over the last 10-15 year RTEs constant bashing of the product they are supposed to be trying to promote has certainly had a detrimental effect on how football has been viewed by the wider public.
I am not dismissing some of the legitimate concerns about the current game of football, but I just believe if someone tells you something is shite every week for 10 years, most people start to believe it no matter if its the truth or not.
In my mind this is doing as much damage to the game as having games  on Sky where some cant see them.
I'd have thought the obvious reason is that it's an attempt to promote the game to a new audience in the UK while still maintaining the vast majority of games on terrestrial TV.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: RedHand88 on July 24, 2018, 03:07:02 PM
The Sky argument is getting boring now. They've 100% earned the right to carry a few games based on how superior their coverage is. Do we really want to listen to Brolly saying "Well it wouldn't be a yellow card in the hurling" any longer??

At the very least it will give RTE the kick up the hole it needs.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: High Fielder on July 24, 2018, 04:00:53 PM
The Sky deal isn't killing Gaelic football. The county format is broken. Some counties are semi professional and most aren't. Consequently, those who have the resources will always be playing for the big prizes. Those who don't, won't. It's simple enough really. It's great if you're in one of those countries and it's pointless if you're not. The county format was fine and well when everyone was on a similar footing, but the gap now is too wide. It's not even sport at times. It's dismissive and snobby to ignore what is blatantly obvious.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: APM on July 24, 2018, 04:16:09 PM
Don't always like everything he has to say, but Eamonn Sweeney is spot on here!

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/brolly-and-spillanes-critics-sound-like-10yearolds-trying-to-persuade-you-one-direction-are-better-than-the-beatles-37141581.html

The gormless conformists in sensible ganseys with their incessant blather about innovation and motivation and sports psychology, who love the current game because it's as dull as they are, like to scoff at Joe Brolly and Pat Spillane's repeated assertions that modern day Gaelic football is terrible. They come out with that laughable line about the game 'evolving'. But most big football games these days really are terrible. Brolly and Spillane's critics just sound like 10-year-olds trying to persuade you One Direction are better than The Beatles because they're 'more modern'. Insisting that something is good when it's not doesn't make you a positive thinker. It makes you an eejit.

There are plenty of these eejits about here and many of them take the view they are taking because they support the teams that are currently doing well.  If their own team was out of the championship and their interest was limited to that of a neutral observer, perhaps they would develop a bit more perspective. 
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: BennyHarp on July 24, 2018, 04:53:43 PM
Don't always like everything he has to say, but Eamonn Sweeney is spot on here!

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/brolly-and-spillanes-critics-sound-like-10yearolds-trying-to-persuade-you-one-direction-are-better-than-the-beatles-37141581.html

The gormless conformists in sensible ganseys with their incessant blather about innovation and motivation and sports psychology, who love the current game because it's as dull as they are, like to scoff at Joe Brolly and Pat Spillane's repeated assertions that modern day Gaelic football is terrible. They come out with that laughable line about the game 'evolving'. But most big football games these days really are terrible. Brolly and Spillane's critics just sound like 10-year-olds trying to persuade you One Direction are better than The Beatles because they're 'more modern'. Insisting that something is good when it's not doesn't make you a positive thinker. It makes you an eejit.

There are plenty of these eejits about here and many of them take the view they are taking because they support the teams that are currently doing well.  If their own team was out of the championship and their interest was limited to that of a neutral observer, perhaps they would develop a bit more perspective.

Christ almighty, does he get paid to write lines like that?
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: APM on July 24, 2018, 04:59:54 PM
You sound concerned!
Let's talk about the substance of what he is saying, rather than picking holes in his style! 

Punters paid £30 to watch Armagh and Fermanagh in Brewster Park earlier in the summer.  I can tell you, as an Armagh supporter, if you paid me £30 to go back and watch the same quality of football, except with Armagh on the winning side, I still wouldn't go - it was that bad!
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: sid waddell on July 24, 2018, 05:03:00 PM
Don't always like everything he has to say, but Eamonn Sweeney is spot on here!

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/brolly-and-spillanes-critics-sound-like-10yearolds-trying-to-persuade-you-one-direction-are-better-than-the-beatles-37141581.html

The gormless conformists in sensible ganseys with their incessant blather about innovation and motivation and sports psychology, who love the current game because it's as dull as they are, like to scoff at Joe Brolly and Pat Spillane's repeated assertions that modern day Gaelic football is terrible. They come out with that laughable line about the game 'evolving'. But most big football games these days really are terrible. Brolly and Spillane's critics just sound like 10-year-olds trying to persuade you One Direction are better than The Beatles because they're 'more modern'. Insisting that something is good when it's not doesn't make you a positive thinker. It makes you an eejit.

There are plenty of these eejits about here and many of them take the view they are taking because they support the teams that are currently doing well.  If their own team was out of the championship and their interest was limited to that of a neutral observer, perhaps they would develop a bit more perspective.
Eamonn is an eejit. He would have been a lot better off to stop writing about Gaelic football altogether after what he wrote about Stephen Rochford last August, if only out of sheer embarrassment at both the crassness and the inaccuracy of what he wrote.

But I guess you gotta keep those clicks coming in any way you can.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Rossfan on July 24, 2018, 05:03:52 PM
Jasus APM must have been in an executive box for that money for a 1st round game :o :o
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: hardstation on July 24, 2018, 05:08:47 PM
You sound concerned!
Let's talk about the substance of what he is saying, rather than picking holes in his style! 

Punters paid £30 to watch Armagh and Fermanagh in Brewster Park earlier in the summer.  I can tell you, as an Armagh supporter, if you paid me £30 to go back and watch the same quality of football, except with Armagh on the winning side, I still wouldn't go - it was that bad!
Stop telling lies ffs. You’d be back in a flash if someone was paying you £30 to watch a game of football.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: APM on July 24, 2018, 05:10:53 PM
Jasus APM must have beenough in an executive box for that money for a 1st round game :o :o


That was the price of a ticket for the stand - f****** joke.  The GAA has lost the run of itself and is losing touch with the grassroots.  It doesn't recognise that the product it is selling is getting worse and it is raising the prices.  Ulster GAA is burying its head in the sand. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-44611174

Don't always like everything he has to say, but Eamonn Sweeney is spot on here!

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/brolly-and-spillanes-critics-sound-like-10yearolds-trying-to-persuade-you-one-direction-are-better-than-the-beatles-37141581.html

The gormless conformists in sensible ganseys with their incessant blather about innovation and motivation and sports psychology, who love the current game because it's as dull as they are, like to scoff at Joe Brolly and Pat Spillane's repeated assertions that modern day Gaelic football is terrible. They come out with that laughable line about the game 'evolving'. But most big football games these days really are terrible. Brolly and Spillane's critics just sound like 10-year-olds trying to persuade you One Direction are better than The Beatles because they're 'more modern'. Insisting that something is good when it's not doesn't make you a positive thinker. It makes you an eejit.

There are plenty of these eejits about here and many of them take the view they are taking because they support the teams that are currently doing well.  If their own team was out of the championship and their interest was limited to that of a neutral observer, perhaps they would develop a bit more perspective.
Eamonn is an eejit. He would have been a lot better off to stop writing about Gaelic football altogether after what he wrote about Stephen Rochford last August, if only out of sheer embarrassment at both the crassness and the inaccuracy of what he wrote.

But I guess you gotta keep those clicks coming in any way you can.

Sid, I was personally raging about the Rochford article and have been offended by his stuff on different occasions.  Let's talk about the substance of what he is saying. 

I have a vision of 30 years time, telling my grandkids stories about the great crowds that used to attend football matches in Croke Park.  Not unlike my da telling me about the great numbers that used to attend the Railway Cup. 

On so many levels I think we are killing the goose that laid the golden egg.

Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: APM on July 24, 2018, 05:14:03 PM
You sound concerned!
Let's talk about the substance of what he is saying, rather than picking holes in his style! 

Punters paid £30 to watch Armagh and Fermanagh in Brewster Park earlier in the summer.  I can tell you, as an Armagh supporter, if you paid me £30 to go back and watch the same quality of football, except with Armagh on the winning side, I still wouldn't go - it was that bad!
Stop telling lies ffs. You’d be back in a flash if someone was paying you £30 to watch a game of football.

Bollocks - that was four hours of my life I'll never get back. Travelling to Enniskillen to watch what was probably the most depressing game I've ever attended and it wasn't just because of the performance of my own county.  People just sitting there half-interested in the terrace beside me, because there was nothing from either team to generate any excitement. 
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Throw ball on July 24, 2018, 06:44:13 PM
You sound concerned!
Let's talk about the substance of what he is saying, rather than picking holes in his style! 

Punters paid £30 to watch Armagh and Fermanagh in Brewster Park earlier in the summer.  I can tell you, as an Armagh supporter, if you paid me £30 to go back and watch the same quality of football, except with Armagh on the winning side, I still wouldn't go - it was that bad!
Stop telling lies ffs. You’d be back in a flash if someone was paying you £30 to watch a game of football.

Bollocks - that was four hours of my life I'll never get back. Travelling to Enniskillen to watch what was probably the most depressing game I've ever attended and it wasn't just because of the performance of my own county.  People just sitting there half-interested in the terrace beside me, because there was nothing from either team to generate any excitement.

Agree 100 %. Defensive football at its worst with added diving and sledging.

I feel APM you may find a sensible discussion hard to find on this topic. Too many vested interests. I agree with you though the GAA is risking losing a great product the way football is going. I may be accused of being a fat, balding, middle aged grump but it is managers around my age who are developing these tactics.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on July 24, 2018, 07:16:57 PM
Don't always like everything he has to say, but Eamonn Sweeney is spot on here!

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/brolly-and-spillanes-critics-sound-like-10yearolds-trying-to-persuade-you-one-direction-are-better-than-the-beatles-37141581.html

The gormless conformists in sensible ganseys with their incessant blather about innovation and motivation and sports psychology, who love the current game because it's as dull as they are, like to scoff at Joe Brolly and Pat Spillane's repeated assertions that modern day Gaelic football is terrible. They come out with that laughable line about the game 'evolving'. But most big football games these days really are terrible. Brolly and Spillane's critics just sound like 10-year-olds trying to persuade you One Direction are better than The Beatles because they're 'more modern'. Insisting that something is good when it's not doesn't make you a positive thinker. It makes you an eejit.

There are plenty of these eejits about here and many of them take the view they are taking because they support the teams that are currently doing well.  If their own team was out of the championship and their interest was limited to that of a neutral observer, perhaps they would develop a bit more perspective.

Quote
No other field sport could have produced something like the 15-minute spell near the end of last Saturday's Super 8 match when Dublin passed the ball back and forth (mainly back, not a lot of forth to be honest) without making any effort to score while Donegal made only cursory attempts to interrupt the routine.

I take it he is unaware of that Association Football game that is somewhat popular.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: APM on July 24, 2018, 07:33:47 PM
Don't always like everything he has to say, but Eamonn Sweeney is spot on here!

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/brolly-and-spillanes-critics-sound-like-10yearolds-trying-to-persuade-you-one-direction-are-better-than-the-beatles-37141581.html

The gormless conformists in sensible ganseys with their incessant blather about innovation and motivation and sports psychology, who love the current game because it's as dull as they are, like to scoff at Joe Brolly and Pat Spillane's repeated assertions that modern day Gaelic football is terrible. They come out with that laughable line about the game 'evolving'. But most big football games these days really are terrible. Brolly and Spillane's critics just sound like 10-year-olds trying to persuade you One Direction are better than The Beatles because they're 'more modern'. Insisting that something is good when it's not doesn't make you a positive thinker. It makes you an eejit.

There are plenty of these eejits about here and many of them take the view they are taking because they support the teams that are currently doing well.  If their own team was out of the championship and their interest was limited to that of a neutral observer, perhaps they would develop a bit more perspective.

Quote
No other field sport could have produced something like the 15-minute spell near the end of last Saturday's Super 8 match when Dublin passed the ball back and forth (mainly back, not a lot of forth to be honest) without making any effort to score while Donegal made only cursory attempts to interrupt the routine.

I take it he is unaware of that Association Football game that is somewhat popular.

I agree, but who wants to benchmark the quality and entertainment of Gaelic Football as a spectator sport against Soccer. Would it not be preferable to measure it against football it in its prime, which for me say started in the late 80's / early 90's and last through to the end of the last decade (and I know there were some shit matches in the 90s too) - **edit** - or benchmark it against classic recent games - Kerry Mayo Semi-Final replay of 2016 in the Gaelic Grounds, even Sunday's Kerry Monaghan game.

Who wants to sing abuse at the opposing team and referee, or stupid songs about their favourite player to make up for the boring bits.  Let's minimise the boring bits!   
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on July 24, 2018, 07:49:49 PM
I do agree that something has to be done to cut down on nonconstructive possession play but any new rules need to be well thought out and trialed before full implementation. If they can come up with something as successful as the mark then fair play.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: dec on July 24, 2018, 08:03:19 PM
The average number of scores per game in the Super 8s so far is 32.25

In 2001 and 2002 in the equivalent stage (quarter final and replays) the average number of scores per game was 23.5 and 27.5

If there is much more negativity now it is not showing up on the score board
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: BennyHarp on July 24, 2018, 08:06:10 PM
Don't always like everything he has to say, but Eamonn Sweeney is spot on here!

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/brolly-and-spillanes-critics-sound-like-10yearolds-trying-to-persuade-you-one-direction-are-better-than-the-beatles-37141581.html

The gormless conformists in sensible ganseys with their incessant blather about innovation and motivation and sports psychology, who love the current game because it's as dull as they are, like to scoff at Joe Brolly and Pat Spillane's repeated assertions that modern day Gaelic football is terrible. They come out with that laughable line about the game 'evolving'. But most big football games these days really are terrible. Brolly and Spillane's critics just sound like 10-year-olds trying to persuade you One Direction are better than The Beatles because they're 'more modern'. Insisting that something is good when it's not doesn't make you a positive thinker. It makes you an eejit.

There are plenty of these eejits about here and many of them take the view they are taking because they support the teams that are currently doing well.  If their own team was out of the championship and their interest was limited to that of a neutral observer, perhaps they would develop a bit more perspective.

Quote
No other field sport could have produced something like the 15-minute spell near the end of last Saturday's Super 8 match when Dublin passed the ball back and forth (mainly back, not a lot of forth to be honest) without making any effort to score while Donegal made only cursory attempts to interrupt the routine.

I take it he is unaware of that Association Football game that is somewhat popular.

I agree, but who wants to benchmark the quality and entertainment of Gaelic Football as a spectator sport against Soccer. Would it not be preferable to measure it against football it in its prime, which for me say started in the late 80's / early 90's and last through to the end of the last decade (and I know there were some shit matches in the 90s too) - **edit** - or benchmark it against classic recent games - Kerry Mayo Semi-Final replay of 2016 in the Gaelic Grounds, even Sunday's Kerry Monaghan game.

Who wants to sing abuse at the opposing team and referee, or stupid songs about their favourite player to make up for the boring bits.  Let's minimise the boring bits!

What exactly does this utopia football look like? What exactly are these guys looking for in the game to make it acceptable?  Gaelic football is meant to be a fuckin war of attrition, a battle and then someone wins. Entertainment is just a positive by product. People talk about modernism -  it’s jokers like Sweeney who want to modernise it into an entertainment sport to be watched, whilst posting on social media and eating carrots with hummus dip, who switch to another channel when the entertainment dips for 5 mins. Go back to the roots and the lads winning a junior B final 0-2 to 0-3 after 3 field fights won’t care too much about entertainment. That dumbed down quote from Sweeney is patronising in the extreme - who is his his target market with a comparison like that? It isn’t the average GAA guy anyway - so maybe that tells you a little about the substance of the article.. Actually, maybe the sooner Gaelic does return to the hoof ball of the 80s and 90s the better, because believe me people will turn off and when they do we will be left with people who still love the sport for what it is and whatever form it takes and maybe those seeking a thrilling pastime may move on to something else.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Esmarelda on July 24, 2018, 08:38:38 PM
On the front page of the GAA discussion index we have:

-It's all Ulster Football's fault - Martin McHugh telling us what's wrong with modern gaelic football
-The Paudie O'Shea Cup - A discussion prompted by Joe Brolly's most recent (as far as I can keep up) criticism of modern gaelic football
-Gaelic Football RIP - self explanatory
-Super 8s - a discussion of the new format with the usual suspect nipping in every page or two to tell us it's shite.
-Rule changes needed to stop puke keep-ball - self explanatory

And these are just the current ones. The question is, which is worse; the state of the game or the incessant complaining about it?

Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on July 24, 2018, 08:51:34 PM
All this a couple of days after 2 fantastic games of intercounty football.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: smelmoth on July 24, 2018, 09:18:43 PM
What exactly does this utopia football look like? What exactly are these guys looking for in the game to make it acceptable?  Gaelic football is meant to be a fuckin war of attrition, a battle and then someone wins. Entertainment is a positive by product. People talk about modernism -  it’s jokers like Sweeney who want to turn it into an entertainment sport to be watched whilst posting on social media and eating carrots with hummus dip, who switch to another channel when the entertainment dips for 5 mins. Go back to the roots and the lads winning a junior B final 0-2 to 0-3 after 3 field fights won’t care too much about entertainment. That dumbed down quote from Sweeney is patronising in the extreme - who is his his target market with a comparison like that? It isn’t the average GAA guy anyway - so maybe that tells you a little about the substance of the article.. Actually, maybe the sooner Gaelic does return to the hoof ball of the 80s and 90s the better, because believe me people will turn off and when they do we will be left with people who still love the sport for what it is and whatever form it takes and maybe those seeking a thrilling pastime may move on to something else.

Frankly bullshit

Keep ball to run down the clock, side ways handpassing between unmarked players throughout the game, uncontested short kick outs, players turning their back on the play as soon as a ball is lost and running back into defensive positions and allowing the opponents to amble up the pitch with uncontested possession, free kick restarts played backwards to restart this uncontested possession. The game is riddled with these. Explain how they are entertaining? How are they battles in a war of attrition?

Entertainment is not supposed to be a by product. It’s not a holy grail either at the altar of which everything else must be sacrificed. But if entertainment is not core to the game it dies. If the audience falls away from the elite level game participation everywhere falls.

Your hummus quips don’t sit well with your disapproval of patronising language. But that is something for you to reconcile

Who is arguing for hoof ball??

If you claim to love Gaelic football no matter what form it takes then that leads to 2 unavoidable conclusions.
1. You would have no difficulty with changes others might want to make to improve the entertainment and
2. Perversely you don’t actually love Gaelic football at all. You just love something called Gaelic football and indeed anything called Gaelic football.

By your argument if there was a 15 a side game without sweepers playing elite level field sport aiming to outscore the opposition in goals in points in 14 1 on 1 battles and keepers hitting it long with midfielders contesting the ball aerially and separately down the road the All Ireland football final was played between the Tralee Franchise and the Dungannon franchise where 90% of the passes were hand passes, 80% of the passes were sideways or backwards and both the passer and recipient were unmarked at the point of participation, 40% of the scores were frees and the other 60% were on the break that you would be watching the second game by virtue of the fact it was called Gaelic football
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: ONeill on July 24, 2018, 09:42:00 PM
Interesting discussion before the game at the weekend between Barney Rock, John Lynch, Noel McGinn and some Meath bollocks. They said their games were shite in the 80s and today's players are so much more skilful. Or words to that effect. Blamed over exposure on TV and the demand to be entertained when up against the soccer. Or words to that effect.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jinxy on July 24, 2018, 10:07:49 PM
Don't always like everything he has to say, but Eamonn Sweeney is spot on here!

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/brolly-and-spillanes-critics-sound-like-10yearolds-trying-to-persuade-you-one-direction-are-better-than-the-beatles-37141581.html

The gormless conformists in sensible ganseys with their incessant blather about innovation and motivation and sports psychology, who love the current game because it's as dull as they are, like to scoff at Joe Brolly and Pat Spillane's repeated assertions that modern day Gaelic football is terrible. They come out with that laughable line about the game 'evolving'. But most big football games these days really are terrible. Brolly and Spillane's critics just sound like 10-year-olds trying to persuade you One Direction are better than The Beatles because they're 'more modern'. Insisting that something is good when it's not doesn't make you a positive thinker. It makes you an eejit.

There are plenty of these eejits about here and many of them take the view they are taking because they support the teams that are currently doing well.  If their own team was out of the championship and their interest was limited to that of a neutral observer, perhaps they would develop a bit more perspective.

Quote
No other field sport could have produced something like the 15-minute spell near the end of last Saturday's Super 8 match when Dublin passed the ball back and forth (mainly back, not a lot of forth to be honest) without making any effort to score while Donegal made only cursory attempts to interrupt the routine.

I take it he is unaware of that Association Football game that is somewhat popular.

I agree, but who wants to benchmark the quality and entertainment of Gaelic Football as a spectator sport against Soccer. Would it not be preferable to measure it against football it in its prime, which for me say started in the late 80's / early 90's and last through to the end of the last decade (and I know there were some shit matches in the 90s too) - **edit** - or benchmark it against classic recent games - Kerry Mayo Semi-Final replay of 2016 in the Gaelic Grounds, even Sunday's Kerry Monaghan game.

Who wants to sing abuse at the opposing team and referee, or stupid songs about their favourite player to make up for the boring bits.  Let's minimise the boring bits!

What exactly does this utopia football look like? What exactly are these guys looking for in the game to make it acceptable?  Gaelic football is meant to be a fuckin war of attrition, a battle and then someone wins. Entertainment is just a positive by product. People talk about modernism -  it’s jokers like Sweeney who want to modernise it into an entertainment sport to be watched, whilst posting on social media and eating carrots with hummus dip, who switch to another channel when the entertainment dips for 5 mins. Go back to the roots and the lads winning a junior B final 0-2 to 0-3 after 3 field fights won’t care too much about entertainment. That dumbed down quote from Sweeney is patronising in the extreme - who is his his target market with a comparison like that? It isn’t the average GAA guy anyway - so maybe that tells you a little about the substance of the article.. Actually, maybe the sooner Gaelic does return to the hoof ball of the 80s and 90s the better, because believe me people will turn off and when they do we will be left with people who still love the sport for what it is and whatever form it takes and maybe those seeking a thrilling pastime may move on to something else.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASp4iINYFmE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASp4iINYFmE)
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: BennyHarp on July 24, 2018, 11:00:44 PM
What exactly does this utopia football look like? What exactly are these guys looking for in the game to make it acceptable?  Gaelic football is meant to be a fuckin war of attrition, a battle and then someone wins. Entertainment is a positive by product. People talk about modernism -  it’s jokers like Sweeney who want to turn it into an entertainment sport to be watched whilst posting on social media and eating carrots with hummus dip, who switch to another channel when the entertainment dips for 5 mins. Go back to the roots and the lads winning a junior B final 0-2 to 0-3 after 3 field fights won’t care too much about entertainment. That dumbed down quote from Sweeney is patronising in the extreme - who is his his target market with a comparison like that? It isn’t the average GAA guy anyway - so maybe that tells you a little about the substance of the article.. Actually, maybe the sooner Gaelic does return to the hoof ball of the 80s and 90s the better, because believe me people will turn off and when they do we will be left with people who still love the sport for what it is and whatever form it takes and maybe those seeking a thrilling pastime may move on to something else.

Frankly bullshit

Keep ball to run down the clock, side ways handpassing between unmarked players throughout the game, uncontested short kick outs, players turning their back on the play as soon as a ball is lost and running back into defensive positions and allowing the opponents to amble up the pitch with uncontested possession, free kick restarts played backwards to restart this uncontested possession. The game is riddled with these. Explain how they are entertaining? How are they battles in a war of attrition?

Entertainment is not supposed to be a by product. It’s not a holy grail either at the altar of which everything else must be sacrificed. But if entertainment is not core to the game it dies. If the audience falls away from the elite level game participation everywhere falls.

Your hummus quips don’t sit well with your disapproval of patronising language. But that is something for you to reconcile

Who is arguing for hoof ball??

If you claim to love Gaelic football no matter what form it takes then that leads to 2 unavoidable conclusions.
1. You would have no difficulty with changes others might want to make to improve the entertainment and
2. Perversely you don’t actually love Gaelic football at all. You just love something called Gaelic football and indeed anything called Gaelic football.

By your argument if there was a 15 a side game without sweepers playing elite level field sport aiming to outscore the opposition in goals in points in 14 1 on 1 battles and keepers hitting it long with midfielders contesting the ball aerially and separately down the road the All Ireland football final was played between the Tralee Franchise and the Dungannon franchise where 90% of the passes were hand passes, 80% of the passes were sideways or backwards and both the passer and recipient were unmarked at the point of participation, 40% of the scores were frees and the other 60% were on the break that you would be watching the second game by virtue of the fact it was called Gaelic football

Not sure what your on about with that last paragraph but mostly I was referring to the article by Sweeney and this idea that Gaelic football should be all about entertainment. Gaelic football is about your village, town, parish or county coming together to win, over perform or cause an upset and represent the people of that area. It's much more tribal than entertainment. A junior championship winner couldn't care less if the lad from the neighbouring parish comments the next day "aye, but the game was a bag of shite". I played and managed teams in England for years, the standard was shite and the entertainment was pretty dire but it didn't stop 20 odd fellas turning up twice a week to take part and celebarate like lunatics when we won a championship. Go and tell the kids in Carlow that the entertainment their team was providing was shite. I wonder what the kids in Galway will think if they make a final -,"aye, it's great we're there but I'm not entertained".

I don't think the game is perfect.....but it never was. But I do see the positives these days like the emergence of a more complete footballer.... how many corner backs of the 80s could kick points like Philly McMahon, Micheal McKenan or Tom O'Sullivan last weekend? Im not even adverse to rule changes, but I'd like to see a tightening of, and better application of current rules before jumping head first with new rules. For example, I would like a team of full time professional referees to ref and officiate county games to try and achieve consistency. For the rest of their time they train refs up and down the country. I'd also make them accountable for their performances. I'd like to see the steps rule tightened up, maybe allow 5 steps but be strict, this might encourage the ball to be played or moved quicker. I'd like to see the tackle defined clearly, I wouldn't allow a second man to tackle the guy in possession, too often these days, players get surrounded and just can't move and get blown up. There's no skill in just getting numbers around a player so allowing only one tackler may limit the effectiveness of having numbers back. Consistent application of the current rules or tweaking the current rules may just shift the game to be a little bit faster.

What I do object to, is the suffocating self flagellatation that takes place around the game and people like Eamon Sweeney do not have the good or our game in mind when writing that piece. He's jumping on a populist bandwagon which I'm afraid will lead to rule changes that may just make the game even worse. Im of the view that unless we sort out the application of our current rules, adding more rules will just not improve things.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Mayo4Sam14 on July 24, 2018, 11:23:28 PM
Don't always like everything he has to say, but Eamonn Sweeney is spot on here!

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/brolly-and-spillanes-critics-sound-like-10yearolds-trying-to-persuade-you-one-direction-are-better-than-the-beatles-37141581.html

The gormless conformists in sensible ganseys with their incessant blather about innovation and motivation and sports psychology, who love the current game because it's as dull as they are, like to scoff at Joe Brolly and Pat Spillane's repeated assertions that modern day Gaelic football is terrible. They come out with that laughable line about the game 'evolving'. But most big football games these days really are terrible. Brolly and Spillane's critics just sound like 10-year-olds trying to persuade you One Direction are better than The Beatles because they're 'more modern'. Insisting that something is good when it's not doesn't make you a positive thinker. It makes you an eejit.

There are plenty of these eejits about here and many of them take the view they are taking because they support the teams that are currently doing well.  If their own team was out of the championship and their interest was limited to that of a neutral observer, perhaps they would develop a bit more perspective.

Quote
No other field sport could have produced something like the 15-minute spell near the end of last Saturday's Super 8 match when Dublin passed the ball back and forth (mainly back, not a lot of forth to be honest) without making any effort to score while Donegal made only cursory attempts to interrupt the routine.

I take it he is unaware of that Association Football game that is somewhat popular.

I agree, but who wants to benchmark the quality and entertainment of Gaelic Football as a spectator sport against Soccer. Would it not be preferable to measure it against football it in its prime, which for me say started in the late 80's / early 90's and last through to the end of the last decade (and I know there were some shit matches in the 90s too) - **edit** - or benchmark it against classic recent games - Kerry Mayo Semi-Final replay of 2016 in the Gaelic Grounds, even Sunday's Kerry Monaghan game.

Who wants to sing abuse at the opposing team and referee, or stupid songs about their favourite player to make up for the boring bits.  Let's minimise the boring bits!

What exactly does this utopia football look like? What exactly are these guys looking for in the game to make it acceptable?  Gaelic football is meant to be a fuckin war of attrition, a battle and then someone wins. Entertainment is just a positive by product. People talk about modernism -  it’s jokers like Sweeney who want to modernise it into an entertainment sport to be watched, whilst posting on social media and eating carrots with hummus dip, who switch to another channel when the entertainment dips for 5 mins. Go back to the roots and the lads winning a junior B final 0-2 to 0-3 after 3 field fights won’t care too much about entertainment. That dumbed down quote from Sweeney is patronising in the extreme - who is his his target market with a comparison like that? It isn’t the average GAA guy anyway - so maybe that tells you a little about the substance of the article.. Actually, maybe the sooner Gaelic does return to the hoof ball of the 80s and 90s the better, because believe me people will turn off and when they do we will be left with people who still love the sport for what it is and whatever form it takes and maybe those seeking a thrilling pastime may move on to something else.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASp4iINYFmE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASp4iINYFmE)

https://youtu.be/4RbEFKHxLlI
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jinxy on July 24, 2018, 11:27:23 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Al_-1UbzAUQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Al_-1UbzAUQ)
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Rossfan on July 25, 2018, 01:32:57 AM
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/poll-would-awarding-two-points-for-a-long-range-score-help-to-combat-the-blanket-defence-in-gaelic-football-37149369.html
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: sid waddell on July 25, 2018, 08:53:15 AM

Quote
No other field sport could have produced something like the 15-minute spell near the end of last Saturday's Super 8 match when Dublin passed the ball back and forth (mainly back, not a lot of forth to be honest) without making any effort to score while Donegal made only cursory attempts to interrupt the routine.

I take it he is unaware of that Association Football game that is somewhat popular.
Exaggerating the fook of of something to the extent that it exposes the writer as a fantasist is a great Brollyism.

Yeah, Dublin played keep ball for 15 minutes, and Joe used to play in front of crowds of 15,000 in the first round of the Derry club championship. There would be 30,000 at the final. Every year. Without fail. Even though no stadium in Derry held more than 15k.

People should have a watch of what happens in Aussie Rules when teams "ice the clock" if they think Gaelic football is bad for teams keeping possession. Constant short marks that eat up way more time than any team could ever manage in Gaelic football. No way to get the ball back. Unlike in Gaelic football, where there is a very obvious option - you push up and tackle the opposition.

Rugby has a thing called "going through the phases". Low risk, go to ground, funnel the ball back and repeat in order to waste time, and boy can you waste time doing it. The Munster team of the last decade were absolute masters at it.

The last few minutes of NBA games almost always descend into a dirge of fouling and free throws.

Which is nothing compared to what happens in the NFL. American football is a sport that is based around time wasting.



Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: smelmoth on July 25, 2018, 07:52:36 PM
What exactly does this utopia football look like? What exactly are these guys looking for in the game to make it acceptable?  Gaelic football is meant to be a fuckin war of attrition, a battle and then someone wins. Entertainment is a positive by product. People talk about modernism -  it’s jokers like Sweeney who want to turn it into an entertainment sport to be watched whilst posting on social media and eating carrots with hummus dip, who switch to another channel when the entertainment dips for 5 mins. Go back to the roots and the lads winning a junior B final 0-2 to 0-3 after 3 field fights won’t care too much about entertainment. That dumbed down quote from Sweeney is patronising in the extreme - who is his his target market with a comparison like that? It isn’t the average GAA guy anyway - so maybe that tells you a little about the substance of the article.. Actually, maybe the sooner Gaelic does return to the hoof ball of the 80s and 90s the better, because believe me people will turn off and when they do we will be left with people who still love the sport for what it is and whatever form it takes and maybe those seeking a thrilling pastime may move on to something else.

Frankly bullshit

Keep ball to run down the clock, side ways handpassing between unmarked players throughout the game, uncontested short kick outs, players turning their back on the play as soon as a ball is lost and running back into defensive positions and allowing the opponents to amble up the pitch with uncontested possession, free kick restarts played backwards to restart this uncontested possession. The game is riddled with these. Explain how they are entertaining? How are they battles in a war of attrition?

Entertainment is not supposed to be a by product. It’s not a holy grail either at the altar of which everything else must be sacrificed. But if entertainment is not core to the game it dies. If the audience falls away from the elite level game participation everywhere falls.

Your hummus quips don’t sit well with your disapproval of patronising language. But that is something for you to reconcile

Who is arguing for hoof ball??

If you claim to love Gaelic football no matter what form it takes then that leads to 2 unavoidable conclusions.
1. You would have no difficulty with changes others might want to make to improve the entertainment and
2. Perversely you don’t actually love Gaelic football at all. You just love something called Gaelic football and indeed anything called Gaelic football.

By your argument if there was a 15 a side game without sweepers playing elite level field sport aiming to outscore the opposition in goals in points in 14 1 on 1 battles and keepers hitting it long with midfielders contesting the ball aerially and separately down the road the All Ireland football final was played between the Tralee Franchise and the Dungannon franchise where 90% of the passes were hand passes, 80% of the passes were sideways or backwards and both the passer and recipient were unmarked at the point of participation, 40% of the scores were frees and the other 60% were on the break that you would be watching the second game by virtue of the fact it was called Gaelic football

Not sure what your on about with that last paragraph but mostly I was referring to the article by Sweeney and this idea that Gaelic football should be all about entertainment. Gaelic football is about your village, town, parish or county coming together to win, over perform or cause an upset and represent the people of that area. It's much more tribal than entertainment. A junior championship winner couldn't care less if the lad from the neighbouring parish comments the next day "aye, but the game was a bag of shite". I played and managed teams in England for years, the standard was shite and the entertainment was pretty dire but it didn't stop 20 odd fellas turning up twice a week to take part and celebarate like lunatics when we won a championship. Go and tell the kids in Carlow that the entertainment their team was providing was shite. I wonder what the kids in Galway will think if they make a final -,"aye, it's great we're there but I'm not entertained".

I don't think the game is perfect.....but it never was. But I do see the positives these days like the emergence of a more complete footballer.... how many corner backs of the 80s could kick points like Philly McMahon, Micheal McKenan or Tom O'Sullivan last weekend? Im not even adverse to rule changes, but I'd like to see a tightening of, and better application of current rules before jumping head first with new rules. For example, I would like a team of full time professional referees to ref and officiate county games to try and achieve consistency. For the rest of their time they train refs up and down the country. I'd also make them accountable for their performances. I'd like to see the steps rule tightened up, maybe allow 5 steps but be strict, this might encourage the ball to be played or moved quicker. I'd like to see the tackle defined clearly, I wouldn't allow a second man to tackle the guy in possession, too often these days, players get surrounded and just can't move and get blown up. There's no skill in just getting numbers around a player so allowing only one tackler may limit the effectiveness of having numbers back. Consistent application of the current rules or tweaking the current rules may just shift the game to be a little bit faster.

What I do object to, is the suffocating self flagellatation that takes place around the game and people like Eamon Sweeney do not have the good or our game in mind when writing that piece. He's jumping on a populist bandwagon which I'm afraid will lead to rule changes that may just make the game even worse. Im of the view that unless we sort out the application of our current rules, adding more rules will just not improve things.

My last paragraph follows the logical conclusion of your argument.

GAA is not actually all about your club/parish/village. Club GAA should and is about that. Inter County GAA could never be about that. I’m from Armagh. I have attended or watched 7 of the 8 super 8 games thus far. I’ve watched all the live hurling games thus far. My club, parish, village and indeed county have played in none of those games. This is true for the majority of the total audience. So your argument is not correct but it CANNOT be correct.

How many corner backs in the 80s played with a sweeper in front of him? Your upside only analysis falls at the first hurdle. It has no merit.

Your ref idea might have merit. The steps, tackle and second man in ideas are on the money. Your argument on crowd defending is the essence of the problem and I completely agree with you.

I know little of Sweeney so have no idea of his intentions. But some of the people worried about modern football and the direction it’s going so best to engage in the argument rather than focusing on who it is you’re arguing with
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: APM on July 26, 2018, 11:53:46 AM
I know little of Sweeney so have no idea of his intentions. But some of the people worried about modern football and the direction it’s going so best to engage in the argument rather than focusing on who it is you’re arguing with

On the money!! Attack the messenger rather that debate the message. 
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: RedHand88 on July 26, 2018, 01:19:05 PM
The average number of scores per game in the Super 8s so far is 32.25

In 2001 and 2002 in the equivalent stage (quarter final and replays) the average number of scores per game was 23.5 and 27.5

If there is much more negativity now it is not showing up on the score board

Agreed. If a team scored 4-24 in the 90s or early 00s, any team, it would be talked about for years. Nobody seems to care now.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: mrdeeds on July 26, 2018, 01:21:23 PM
It seems some lads just want it drove in ta feck.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: seafoid on July 26, 2018, 01:27:04 PM
The average number of scores per game in the Super 8s so far is 32.25

In 2001 and 2002 in the equivalent stage (quarter final and replays) the average number of scores per game was 23.5 and 27.5

If there is much more negativity now it is not showing up on the score board

Agreed. If a team scored 4-24 in the 90s or early 00s, any team, it would be talked about for years. Nobody seems to care now.
It depends on what the average margin is
High scores may not be shangri la
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: trailer on July 26, 2018, 01:46:43 PM
Football now is more entertaining than it ever was. Good defending is an art. If you understand the game, understand what teams are trying to achieve, you will enjoy the match. Unfortunately some people just haven't that ability. They are Brexit voters, they want something different but they don't know what it is, or how to get it, but they want it.
They're just really confused and upset that one team just won't kick the ball away to give the other team ago. U-8 football would suit them better. Everyone is a winner, everyone is great, everyone gets a go, and everyone gets a medal, a drink and a packet of crisps.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jinxy on July 26, 2018, 01:51:47 PM
Football now is more entertaining than it ever was. Good defending is an art. If you understand the game, understand what teams are trying to achieve, you will enjoy the match. Unfortunately some people just haven't that ability. They are Brexit voters, they want something different but they don't know what it is, or how to get it, but they want it.
They're just really confused and upset that one team just won't kick the ball away to give the other team ago. U-8 football would suit them better. Everyone is a winner, everyone is great, everyone gets a go, and everyone gets a medal, a drink and a packet of crisps.

It was at one time.
Now, it's a science.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: dec on July 26, 2018, 02:02:48 PM
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/poll-would-awarding-two-points-for-a-long-range-score-help-to-combat-the-blanket-defence-in-gaelic-football-37149369.html

I don't think this is a good idea. If a player has the ability to score a point from distance they will do so. There is a cliche in the game "take your points, goals will come". This arose from the tendency of some forwards to waste a scoring opportunity by trying for a goal that wasn't on and turning down a makeable point. A 2 point line would encourage players to try long range shots when the better option would be to advance the ball either for a better scoring chance for themselves or passing to a better placed teammate.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: trailer on July 26, 2018, 02:05:23 PM
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/poll-would-awarding-two-points-for-a-long-range-score-help-to-combat-the-blanket-defence-in-gaelic-football-37149369.html

I don't think this is a good idea. If a player has the ability to score a point from distance they will do so. There is a cliche in the game "take your points, goals will come". This arose from the tendency of some forwards to waste a scoring opportunity by trying for a goal that wasn't on and turning down a makeable point. A 2 point line would encourage players to try long range shots when the better option would be to advance the ball either for a better scoring chance for themselves or passing to a better placed teammate.

Just what was needed, another f**king stupid idea.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Zulu on July 26, 2018, 02:48:21 PM
Why is it a stupid idea? Now whether it would impact blanket defending or is worth trying can be debated but it is hardly a stupid suggestion. The only change required would be to mark out the two point scoring zone so it seems to me to be a very good idea. It doesn't impact on refs or players too much but encourages scores from further out and potentially punishes teams that lie very deep. As far as I can see it would either be a positive or have little impact, it wouldn't lead to negative unintended consequences as it's only a minor change to the scoring system.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: trailer on July 26, 2018, 02:55:21 PM
Because it wouldn't change the blanket defence. Where is the 2 point zone? Outside the 45? Not many players can kick a point from outside the 45, hence the reason the defence is inside the 45.
Why not go to 13 aside, and limit subs? There's two very simply changes that would make more of a difference than all the stupid 2 point kicks, or shot clocks, or forward marks, or no back passing, insert stupid idea here, rule changes.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Zulu on July 26, 2018, 03:03:51 PM
Football now is more entertaining than it ever was. Good defending is an art. If you understand the game, understand what teams are trying to achieve, you will enjoy the match. Unfortunately some people just haven't that ability. They are Brexit voters, they want something different but they don't know what it is, or how to get it, but they want it.
They're just really confused and upset that one team just won't kick the ball away to give the other team ago. U-8 football would suit them better. Everyone is a winner, everyone is great, everyone gets a go, and everyone gets a medal, a drink and a packet of crisps.

Ah here, that's not true and demeans those arguing that football is evolving or a good spectacle to suggest that those who question the entertainment value of football just 'don't get it'. I was at last years All Ireland final and it was brilliant, there have been many good games in the past few years but there's also been complete muck and periods of utter boredom with pass the parcel games in front of massed defences. If that entertains you then fair enough but most of us don't find it engaging.

I recently saw one of the Tyrone Kerry All Irelands of the 2000's (not sure which one) and I was surprised by the amount of catch and kick type football that was still on display and it was wonderful to watch again. The crowd was engaged and every turnover or ball won celebrated. Now we have keep ball and recycling if there's any risk of losing the ball which is awful to watch and certainly just engage the crowd. I think there's plenty to admire about the current game but to my mind we are definitely over coaching the sport and being too defensively minded. The balance isn't right yet. Conor McManus and Micheal Murphy proved that we still have forwards who can light up the sport in full forward if given a bit of space and Kerry showed you can allow that and still compete. Mayo have shown this too so hopefully more teams will drop less players back and trust their defenders a bit more to defend.


Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: trailer on July 26, 2018, 03:13:23 PM
Football now is more entertaining than it ever was. Good defending is an art. If you understand the game, understand what teams are trying to achieve, you will enjoy the match. Unfortunately some people just haven't that ability. They are Brexit voters, they want something different but they don't know what it is, or how to get it, but they want it.
They're just really confused and upset that one team just won't kick the ball away to give the other team ago. U-8 football would suit them better. Everyone is a winner, everyone is great, everyone gets a go, and everyone gets a medal, a drink and a packet of crisps.

Ah here, that's not true and demeans those arguing that football is evolving or a good spectacle to suggest that those who question the entertainment value of football just 'don't get it'. I was at last years All Ireland final and it was brilliant, there have been many good games in the past few years but there's also been complete muck and periods of utter boredom with pass the parcel games in front of massed defences. If that entertains you then fair enough but most of us don't find it engaging.

I recently saw one of the Tyrone Kerry All Irelands of the 2000's (not sure which one) and I was surprised by the amount of catch and kick type football that was still on display and it was wonderful to watch again. The crowd was engaged and every turnover or ball won celebrated. Now we have keep ball and recycling if there's any risk of losing the ball which is awful to watch and certainly just engage the crowd. I think there's plenty to admire about the current game but to my mind we are definitely over coaching the sport and being too defensively minded. The balance isn't right yet. Conor McManus and Micheal Murphy proved that we still have forwards who can light up the sport in full forward if given a bit of space and Kerry showed you can allow that and still compete. Mayo have shown this too so hopefully more teams will drop less players back and trust their defenders a bit more to defend.

If you were scoring 4-24 in a match against a top 8 team, why on earth would you revert from that and make it easier for the opposition to score?
Why are high scoring games not entertaining?
What do 'fans' want to see? And don't quote one game from 10 years ago. Because for every 1 memorable game from years ago there are 10 utterly forgettable ones.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Zulu on July 26, 2018, 06:12:34 PM
I didn't just quote one game, I pointed out that there are good games now and good games from the past but I think the modern game is far more likely to provide games which are poor due to the way the game is played.

All teams can play as they want but likewise, supporters can be critical of it without being told they just don't get 'it'. I don't think Tyrone need to play as they do to score 4-24 against certain teams and if they played differently and scored just as much but conceded a bit more is that a problem?

Tyrone played a blanket defence last year and got hammered by Dublin, had they gone at Dublin like Mayo did they may still have lost but at least they would have had a chance.

I think massed defensive set ups are not effective against the top teams who will just pass and probe until a soft free is won or good scoring chance appears. When games turn into that type of game then it is a very poor spectacle with no intensity, no physicality, little skill and no entertainment. We shouldn't be happy with our game going down that road. I see no issue with trying a few rule changes if coaches don't move away from that type game.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: APM on July 26, 2018, 06:12:57 PM
What do 'fans' want to see? And don't quote one game from 10 years ago. Because for every 1 memorable game from years ago there are 10 utterly forgettable ones.

The answer is in the post you were replying to and I think it's more about what we don't want to see!!

What we don't want to see!
- complete muck and periods of utter boredom with pass the parcel games in front of massed defences
- keep ball and recycling
 


Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: dec on July 26, 2018, 06:29:35 PM
Get rid of the handpass, it would make it a lot more difficult to play keep ball.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: APM on July 26, 2018, 06:29:38 PM
This is when your favourite rock band changes style and brings out a shite country and western album.   The loyal fans try to persuade us we would like it if we were just clever or advanced enough.  We mustn't be good enough fans, because if we were we would immerse ourselves in it and grow to love it.  Come on, its an acquired taste, you only get out of it what you put into it.  You need to study the game and understand it better.  You go to see them at Electric Picnic and try to convince yourself that this is class - but really its only when they play their old hits that you recognise the stuff that you know and love.

Usually when this happens a band, they are finished.  Hopefully the GAA can amend the rules to stop this pass the parcel, risk-aversion shite and encourage more entertaining football.

This really is like the Emperors new clothes! The sooner people see it the better. 
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Throw ball on July 26, 2018, 06:41:41 PM
Football now is more entertaining than it ever was. Good defending is an art. If you understand the game, understand what teams are trying to achieve, you will enjoy the match. Unfortunately some people just haven't that ability. They are Brexit voters, they want something different but they don't know what it is, or how to get it, but they want it.
They're just really confused and upset that one team just won't kick the ball away to give the other team ago. U-8 football would suit them better. Everyone is a winner, everyone is great, everyone gets a go, and everyone gets a medal, a drink and a packet of crisps.

I think it is you who is missing the point. Some games are entertaining but many are not. Just like in the past. The problem is it doesn't matter if students of the game find defensive football enthralling. If crowds disappear the game disappears. The game has to be entertaining for a greater number of people if it is to flourish.

Personally I had this pass the parcel keep ball. I understand the objectives and appreciate why managers play this way but I don't enjoy it. I also feel it is bad for the game when one team dominates so much. I hope that is cyclical. 
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: RedHand88 on July 26, 2018, 06:56:40 PM
Get rid of the handpass, it would make it a lot more difficult to play keep ball.

"Sorry lads, I know yous have been taught to handpass from you were 5 year old but we are completely changing the sport. You'll just have to suck it up".
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Rossfan on July 26, 2018, 07:00:17 PM
Yep lads. It's FOOTball ;)
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: trailer on July 26, 2018, 07:06:00 PM
Get rid of the handpass, it would make it a lot more difficult to play keep ball.

"Sorry lads, I know yous have been taught to handpass from you were 5 year old but we are completely changing the sport. You'll just have to suck it up".

This is what you're up against. Ban the handpass, like wtf?
I really worry for some people. They want change, not sure what they exactly want, but change, even if we have to introduce some ridiculous rules. Similar to those who voted Brexit. Some very confused people around.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: dec on July 26, 2018, 07:14:25 PM
Martin Carney in 2005

https://www.independent.ie/sport/why-the-hand-pass-is-killing-gaelic-football-25955497.html

"Let's be brutally frank about this - extensive use of the hand pass is ruining Gaelic football as a spectacle," said Carney. It's getting worse, not better and unless something is done about it, kicking the ball will be virtually redundant in a few years except in the scoring area. "What impact will that have on the public? Somehow, I don't think it's going to appeal to them."

He believes a culture of fear has crept into Gaelic football which makes even good kickers use the hand pass over a short distance, rather than take a chance with a longer foot pass. "Coaches are under so much pressure to win games that they concentrate much of their energies on devising ways of retaining possession. The hand pass is the best way of achieving that but it's making Gaelic football look more like rugby league all the time. "I'm not blaming the coaches for exploiting the hand pass but we need to do something to return to the primacy of kicking and catching, which are the two most basic skills in football."
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: APM on July 26, 2018, 07:22:25 PM
Right Trailer:
I don't want to abolish the handpass either.  But you surely accept that football rules have changed numerous times over the years to improve the game as a spectacle and to ensure that rules were easy to referee. See the following:
Free kick from the ground
The mark
Handpassed goals
Square ball
All the players in the middle for the throw in by a bishop
Sidelines on the ground

So changing the rules is as much a part of the GAA as some of the rules themselves.  No different to other sports when needs arise.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  Maybe you like what you're watching, but lots of good GAA people on here are fed up with what they are seeing and the attendances are falling. 

Based on this, can you not accept that there are aspects of today's game that can render games a poor spectacle as outlined by Zulu above.  What would you do to improve this?
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on July 26, 2018, 07:58:35 PM
Yep lads. It's FOOTball ;)

So is Rugby, or American, FFS! don't get too hung up on a name, a fraught place to begin in any debate.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: smelmoth on July 26, 2018, 08:03:57 PM
Football now is more entertaining than it ever was. Good defending is an art. If you understand the game, understand what teams are trying to achieve, you will enjoy the match. Unfortunately some people just haven't that ability. They are Brexit voters, they want something different but they don't know what it is, or how to get it, but they want it.
They're just really confused and upset that one team just won't kick the ball away to give the other team ago. U-8 football would suit them better. Everyone is a winner, everyone is great, everyone gets a go, and everyone gets a medal, a drink and a packet of crisps.

In an earlier post I listed;
Keep ball to run down the clock,
side ways handpassing between unmarked players throughout the game,
uncontested short kick outs,
players turning their back on the play as soon as a ball is lost and running back into defensive positions and allowing the opponents to amble up the pitch with uncontested possession,
free kick restarts played backwards to restart this uncontested possession.

It would be impossible to claim that these are not features of modern football. It would be impossible to argue that in aggregate that they are not a major feature of modern football. Explain the entertainment that they deliver?

Just as a favour to us uninitiated
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: smelmoth on July 26, 2018, 08:10:42 PM
Football now is more entertaining than it ever was. Good defending is an art. If you understand the game, understand what teams are trying to achieve, you will enjoy the match. Unfortunately some people just haven't that ability. They are Brexit voters, they want something different but they don't know what it is, or how to get it, but they want it.
They're just really confused and upset that one team just won't kick the ball away to give the other team ago. U-8 football would suit them better. Everyone is a winner, everyone is great, everyone gets a go, and everyone gets a medal, a drink and a packet of crisps.

It was at one time.
Now, it's a science.

Defending one on one within the rules is a joy to watch. Defending in numbers is not.

Many of time have fans raised their fists, arses and voices to hail a great block or risk taking interception. Nobody does this to hail a half forward jogging back into a sweeper position
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: BennyHarp on July 26, 2018, 08:12:20 PM
Right Trailer:
I don't want to abolish the handpass either.  But you surely accept that football rules have changed numerous times over the years to improve the game as a spectacle and to ensure that rules were easy to referee. See the following:
Free kick from the ground
The mark
Handpassed goals
Square ball
All the players in the middle for the throw in by a bishop
Sidelines on the ground

So changing the rules is as much a part of the GAA as some of the rules themselves.  No different to other sports when needs arise.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  Maybe you like what you're watching, but lots of good GAA people on here are fed up with what they are seeing and the attendances are falling. 

Based on this, can you not accept that there are aspects of today's game that can render games a poor spectacle as outlined by Zulu above.  What would you do to improve this?

I’m not adverse to rule changes in theory, the free from the hand, hand passed goals, throw in by bishops etc were all logical and designed to improve the game by correcting bad rules which inhibited the game. I’ve said before that I’d like to tighten up certain rules and ensure consistency by having full time refs. I wouldn’t want more rules before the current rules are applied effectively.

My big problem with rule changes are when they are designed to offset tactics that teams are trying to implement. This is tinkering with the game in a way that the final outcome may or may not be successful. Let the other managers deal with the tactics of rival managers. It’s not the rule makers responsibility. The black card has been the most frustrating addition to our rule book. The level of inconsistency riles players and supporters alike and who knows, it’s success in stopping the defender from blocking the runner may have led us to the ultimate running game we see today. Whatever rule change will be manipulated by managers to gain an advantage and unintended consequences will ensue. Because no matter what anyone tries to tell you, for those who play the game, it’s all about winning and not entertainment.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: smelmoth on July 26, 2018, 08:12:38 PM
Because it wouldn't change the blanket defence. Where is the 2 point zone? Outside the 45? Not many players can kick a point from outside the 45, hence the reason the defence is inside the 45.
Why not go to 13 aside, and limit subs? There's two very simply changes that would make more of a difference than all the stupid 2 point kicks, or shot clocks, or forward marks, or no back passing, insert stupid idea here, rule changes.

13 aside risks increases ball carrying. Which is precisely the dull spectacle we are trying to challenge
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: smelmoth on July 26, 2018, 08:19:10 PM
What do 'fans' want to see?

Contested kick outs
High fielding
One on one battles
Kick passing
Defenders not protected by sweepers
Risk taking
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on July 26, 2018, 08:20:11 PM
Because it wouldn't change the blanket defence. Where is the 2 point zone? Outside the 45? Not many players can kick a point from outside the 45, hence the reason the defence is inside the 45.
Why not go to 13 aside, and limit subs? There's two very simply changes that would make more of a difference than all the stupid 2 point kicks, or shot clocks, or forward marks, or no back passing, insert stupid idea here, rule changes.

13 aside risks increases ball carrying. Which is precisely the dull spectacle we are trying to challenge

Or, it may increase the kicking quotient -- you don't know that for sure, like I don't, but it's equally or more probable, I'd say.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: smelmoth on July 26, 2018, 08:22:02 PM
Because it wouldn't change the blanket defence. Where is the 2 point zone? Outside the 45? Not many players can kick a point from outside the 45, hence the reason the defence is inside the 45.
Why not go to 13 aside, and limit subs? There's two very simply changes that would make more of a difference than all the stupid 2 point kicks, or shot clocks, or forward marks, or no back passing, insert stupid idea here, rule changes.

13 aside risks increases ball carrying. Which is precisely the dull spectacle we are trying to challenge

Or, it may increase the kicking quotient -- you don't know that for sure, like I don't, but it's equally or more probable, I'd say.
Get rid of the handpass, it would make it a lot more difficult to play keep ball.

"Sorry lads, I know yous have been taught to handpass from you were 5 year old but we are completely changing the sport. You'll just have to suck it up".


If we are to change the game then that means to stop doing something that we are currently doing

Restricting the handpass might be more viable than a ban
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: APM on July 26, 2018, 08:28:01 PM
My big problem with rule changes are when they are designed to offset tactics that teams are trying to implement.

I think you could equally say:
My big problem with rule changes are when they are designed to offset tactics that MY team are is trying to implement.


If those tactics mean attendances are falling and the game as a spectacle is suffering do you not see the logic of change?
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: smelmoth on July 26, 2018, 08:28:18 PM
Get rid of the handpass, it would make it a lot more difficult to play keep ball.

"Sorry lads, I know yous have been taught to handpass from you were 5 year old but we are completely changing the sport. You'll just have to suck it up".

This is what you're up against. Ban the handpass, like wtf?
I really worry for some people. They want change, not sure what they exactly want, but change, even if we have to introduce some ridiculous rules. Similar to those who voted Brexit. Some very confused people around.

Who is refusing to tell you what they want?
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: smelmoth on July 26, 2018, 08:34:19 PM
Because no matter what anyone tries to tell you, for those who play the game, it’s all about winning and not entertainment.

And whether anybody gives a shit depends on whether it’s entertaining.

Remember the bulk of the audience are neutral. They are there to be entertained
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: smelmoth on July 26, 2018, 08:38:56 PM
My big problem with rule changes are when they are designed to offset tactics that teams are trying to implement. This is tinkering with the game in a way that the final outcome may or may not be successful.

So you are ok with rule changes but not ones that tackle issues
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: smelmoth on July 26, 2018, 08:40:14 PM
Because it wouldn't change the blanket defence. Where is the 2 point zone? Outside the 45? Not many players can kick a point from outside the 45, hence the reason the defence is inside the 45.
Why not go to 13 aside, and limit subs? There's two very simply changes that would make more of a difference than all the stupid 2 point kicks, or shot clocks, or forward marks, or no back passing, insert stupid idea here, rule changes.

13 aside risks increases ball carrying. Which is precisely the dull spectacle we are trying to challenge

Or, it may increase the kicking quotient -- you don't know that for sure, like I don't, but it's equally or more probable, I'd say.

Give it a go. I’m just pointing out a risk. If we are going to t**ker I would try other things first
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on July 26, 2018, 08:42:12 PM

Give it a go. I’m just pointing out a risk. If we are going to t**ker I would try other things first

Agreed, nothing is 'risk free', but maybe worth taking the chance on.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Substandard on July 26, 2018, 08:53:49 PM
Haven't fully kept up with this thread, so maybe this was suggested and shot down already, but if there was a limit of two to tackle the man in possession, would that prevent 'swarm' defence, as in a player getting surrounded and either losing possession or done for over-carrying?
Your very skilful players would have a greater chance of running at a defence and creating scoring opportunities, and wouldn't this open up the game?
The immediate flaws are it could lead to theatrics to win a free if one/ two defenders are trying to impede a run, and also at underage, your bigger, stronger players would be very hard to stop.
Also, any amendments to rules have to be referee-friendly.  It's hard enough to get right at the minute, and if there was to be rule changes, they'd have to be workable at Junior B league as well as in Croke Park on the big days.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Rossfan on July 26, 2018, 10:16:07 PM
What do 'fans' want to see?

Contested kick outs
High fielding
One on one battles
Kick passing
Defenders not protected by sweepers
Risk taking
All the things coaches and managers don't want to see ;D
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: trailer on July 26, 2018, 10:18:27 PM
I'm not adverse to change. What I am adverse to is ill-thought out, stupid ideas that have been thought up by some drunk down the pub who wouldn't know if the ball was blew up or stuffed.
Shot clocks, banning the hand pass and having players stay in certain areas of the field, are some of the ideas that fall into that category.

I also appreciate when a team holds onto possession. Happens in all sports. Giving the ball away in today's game comes with a huge penalty as the skill levels and conditioning of players is now so high it almost always results in a score. Good teams know this. One of the best games I saw this year was Tyrone v Monaghan. Neither team gave the ball away and it was a joy to watch. Forcing teams to give up possession is a backward step in my opinion.
Look with your own eyes, don't listen to what other so called commentators say and you will see it different. I can see why some people are confused and frustrated that their team won't kick the ball away, or give up possession cheaply, but there is no need to be.

Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: trileacman on July 26, 2018, 10:57:58 PM
I'm not adverse to change. What I am adverse to is ill-thought out, stupid ideas that have been thought up by some drunk down the pub who wouldn't know if the ball was blew up or stuffed.
Shot clocks, banning the hand pass and having players stay in certain areas of the field, are some of the ideas that fall into that category.

I also appreciate when a team holds onto possession. Happens in all sports. Giving the ball away in today's game comes with a huge penalty as the skill levels and conditioning of players is now so high it almost always results in a score. Good teams know this. One of the best games I saw this year was Tyrone v Monaghan. Neither team gave the ball away and it was a joy to watch. Forcing teams to give up possession is a backward step in my opinion.
Look with your own eyes, don't listen to what other so called commentators say and you will see it different. I can see why some people are confused and frustrated that their team won't kick the ball away, or give up possession cheaply, but there is no need to be.

That depends on how you view it. I don't see it as forcing a team to give up possession I see it as forcing a team to use possession.

For example Ciaran Kilkenny is probably one of the most talented players in the game. Huge levels of stamina, comfortable with the ball, pace to burn, he should be lighting up the championship week after week. Instead he spends the vast majority of his playing time running backwards and making multiple sideways hand passes. Michael Murphy is in the same boat as are many of the Tyrone players. Comer is probably another.

There's a generation of wonderful footballers who are being wasted playing keep ball and probing a blanket defence for weakness. It's not exciting or invigorating and moves to combat it must at least be tried. There's no point in simply revoking all suggestions as "that won't work, neither will that". We'll not know until they are tried. Most importantly good ideas must be aired and the conversation must be had as to what we do otherwise the GAA will just do the first thing the old brigade committee, chaired by Eugene McGee, come up with.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: sid waddell on July 27, 2018, 08:09:30 AM
Because it wouldn't change the blanket defence. Where is the 2 point zone? Outside the 45? Not many players can kick a point from outside the 45, hence the reason the defence is inside the 45.
Why not go to 13 aside, and limit subs? There's two very simply changes that would make more of a difference than all the stupid 2 point kicks, or shot clocks, or forward marks, or no back passing, insert stupid idea here, rule changes.

13 aside risks increases ball carrying. Which is precisely the dull spectacle we are trying to challenge

Or, it may increase the kicking quotient -- you don't know that for sure, like I don't, but it's equally or more probable, I'd say.
Get rid of the handpass, it would make it a lot more difficult to play keep ball.

"Sorry lads, I know yous have been taught to handpass from you were 5 year old but we are completely changing the sport. You'll just have to suck it up".


If we are to change the game then that means to stop doing something that we are currently doing

Restricting the handpass might be more viable than a ban
Restricting the handpass is not viable,unnecessary, and unwanted. It was tried before, it was a total failure.

13 a side is another stupid proposal. It would only make keep ball easier and make teams even more cautious.

There is nothing wrong with the playing rules of Gaelic football.

Reducing the amount of subs down to three is the obvious change, in order to cut down on the advantage large panels have.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: APM on July 27, 2018, 08:27:58 AM
Because no matter what anyone tries to tell you, for those who play the game, it’s all about winning and not entertainment.

I really worry for some people. They want change, not sure what they exactly want, but change, even if we have to introduce some ridiculous rules. Similar to those who voted Brexit. Some very confused people around.

Who says I haven't played the game?
There's some patronising shite on here!  Come back to me lads when Tyrone win an All-Ireland in 2045 in front of 20,000 people in Portlaoise and tell me then that this win was as good as 2005, even though it no longer captures the imagination and interest of the county. 
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: BennyHarp on July 27, 2018, 08:58:37 AM
Because no matter what anyone tries to tell you, for those who play the game, it’s all about winning and not entertainment.

I really worry for some people. They want change, not sure what they exactly want, but change, even if we have to introduce some ridiculous rules. Similar to those who voted Brexit. Some very confused people around.

Who says I haven't played the game?
There's some patronising shite on here!  Come back to me lads when Tyrone win an All-Ireland in 2045 in front of 20,000 people in Portlaoise and tell me then that this win was as good as 2005, even though it no longer captures the imagination and interest of the county.

I didn’t say you hadn’t played. My point is that for those playing and managing it’s all about winning not entertainment. I’m sure you have played, and I’m sure you’ve played for your club against a better team and had to use tactics to overcome the advantages they had. Maybe double team their best player, or use a sweeper as your defence is a little bit leaky, or use kick short kicks out to by pass their strong midfield. And I’m pretty sure you didn’t say to your manager during the team talk. “I’m not comfortable with this because these tactics are going to mean that the game may not be entertaining for those watching.” And if you won a shitty game 0-4 to 0-3, I’m pretty sure you and all your team mates and supporters wouldn’t give a rats ass if the game was enjoyable for the neutrals or not. For me, the enjoyment in Gaelic sports is trying to win a battle between two sets of players and that includes overcoming disadvantages in skill or quality to do so. Different tactics enable that to happen. But clearly we are on different ends of the scale on this so you crack on posting about the death of Gaelic football, I’ll leave you too it and for what it’s worth I cannot wait for the Donegal v Tyrone game in Ballybofey. I’d suggest you don’t bother watching as it won’t be one for the purists.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: sid waddell on July 27, 2018, 09:08:48 AM
Come back to me lads when Tyrone win an All-Ireland in 2045 in front of 20,000 people in Portlaoise
;D ;D ;D

Now that's ridiculously far fetched.

The bit about Tyrone winning, obviously.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Cunny Funt on August 03, 2018, 06:15:24 PM
Any thoughts on Tommy the tank Carr rant? or is it the case that few with any sense pays much attention to him.

Quote
'It's atrocious stuff' - you would have to pay me to watch modern gaelic football

“I’m telling you here and now, it is a bore. It’s boring,” he reiterates.

“You don’t need to watch the first half of a game of Gaelic football. You don’t need to any more. You can just go in and watch the last 20 minutes, and you’ll get what the game is.

“It is atrocious stuff. It is horrendous stuff. I wouldn’t go to a football match unless I’m working at it.”

“I was involved with the Westmeath hurlers for the last three years, doing their fitness and strength and conditioning.

“They’re a different breed … hurlers actually care about the game of hurling. Footballers care about themselves first, and then they care about the game of football.”


Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: RedHand88 on August 03, 2018, 07:06:40 PM
Any thoughts on Tommy the tank Carr rant? or is it the case that few with any sense pays much attention to him.

Quote
'It's atrocious stuff' - you would have to pay me to watch modern gaelic football

“I’m telling you here and now, it is a bore. It’s boring,” he reiterates.

“You don’t need to watch the first half of a game of Gaelic football. You don’t need to any more. You can just go in and watch the last 20 minutes, and you’ll get what the game is.

“It is atrocious stuff. It is horrendous stuff. I wouldn’t go to a football match unless I’m working at it.”

“I was involved with the Westmeath hurlers for the last three years, doing their fitness and strength and conditioning.

“They’re a different breed … hurlers actually care about the game of hurling. Footballers care about themselves first, and then they care about the game of football.”



He's just a hurling snob  ;D
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: sid waddell on August 03, 2018, 07:35:28 PM
Any thoughts on Tommy the tank Carr rant? or is it the case that few with any sense pays much attention to him.

Quote
'It's atrocious stuff' - you would have to pay me to watch modern gaelic football

“I’m telling you here and now, it is a bore. It’s boring,” he reiterates.

“You don’t need to watch the first half of a game of Gaelic football. You don’t need to any more. You can just go in and watch the last 20 minutes, and you’ll get what the game is.

“It is atrocious stuff. It is horrendous stuff. I wouldn’t go to a football match unless I’m working at it.”

“I was involved with the Westmeath hurlers for the last three years, doing their fitness and strength and conditioning.

“They’re a different breed … hurlers actually care about the game of hurling. Footballers care about themselves first, and then they care about the game of football.”


Few more so than Tommy. Let's just say he didn't distinguish himself during the latter part of his Dublin career, when could easily have broken Brian Murray's leg with a cowardly kick from behind in the 1993 League final replay, then refused to take his medicine when he was rightly given a six month suspension for it.

The next year he hit one of the worst misses I've ever seen late on in the draw with Kildare, then sulked his way through the rest of the championship on the bench.

He didn't distinguish himself during his managerial career either.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: imtommygunn on August 03, 2018, 08:16:44 PM
Any thoughts on Tommy the tank Carr rant? or is it the case that few with any sense pays much attention to him.

Quote
'It's atrocious stuff' - you would have to pay me to watch modern gaelic football

“I’m telling you here and now, it is a bore. It’s boring,” he reiterates.

“You don’t need to watch the first half of a game of Gaelic football. You don’t need to any more. You can just go in and watch the last 20 minutes, and you’ll get what the game is.

“It is atrocious stuff. It is horrendous stuff. I wouldn’t go to a football match unless I’m working at it.”

“I was involved with the Westmeath hurlers for the last three years, doing their fitness and strength and conditioning.

“They’re a different breed … hurlers actually care about the game of hurling. Footballers care about themselves first, and then they care about the game of football.”



He hates it but he'll take money for commentating on it ;D
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jayop on August 03, 2018, 09:17:18 PM
someone who quite clearly hates the sport probably shouldn't be having their opinions asked for on it and they certainly shouldn't be getting paid to have those opinions foisted on the rest of us.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: seafoid on August 04, 2018, 05:28:58 AM
Any thoughts on Tommy the tank Carr rant? or is it the case that few with any sense pays much attention to him.

Quote
'It's atrocious stuff' - you would have to pay me to watch modern gaelic football

“I’m telling you here and now, it is a bore. It’s boring,” he reiterates.

“You don’t need to watch the first half of a game of Gaelic football. You don’t need to any more. You can just go in and watch the last 20 minutes, and you’ll get what the game is.

“It is atrocious stuff. It is horrendous stuff. I wouldn’t go to a football match unless I’m working at it.”

“I was involved with the Westmeath hurlers for the last three years, doing their fitness and strength and conditioning.

“They’re a different breed … hurlers actually care about the game of hurling. Footballers care about themselves first, and then they care about the game of football.”


Few more so than Tommy. Let's just say he didn't distinguish himself during the latter part of his Dublin career, when could easily have broken Brian Murray's leg with a cowardly kick from behind in the 1993 League final replay, then refused to take his medicine when he was rightly given a six month suspension for it.

The next year he hit one of the worst misses I've ever seen late on in the draw with Kildare, then sulked his way through the rest of the championship on the bench.

He didn't distinguish himself during his managerial career either.
That’s quite poor by your standards

The rest of the article is top notch

“Being in a second-tier competition is not going to address the problem that these teams have, because it’s psychological and it’s traditional,” he argues.

“Solving the problem they have is getting a group of guys who have belief. And you can ring John Maughan now and you can ask him, ‘John, how the f*** did you win a Munster final with Clare in ‘92?’
“And he’ll tell you straight up, ‘We weren’t that talented. But we had a bunch of fellas who were as thick (stubborn), and believed in themselves, and wouldn’t stand back.’ That’s the only reason ...““Second tier teams, you can talk about that all you want. It’s not (the answer). And I’m looking at Monaghan at the minute. They continue to make the same mistakes that they made ten years ago. Their decision-making at crucial times – they actually trip themselves up.

“I was at the Fermanagh game – they’d the job done against Fermanagh, they’d the job done against Kerry.”
Just as they’d the job almost done against Kerry back in a 2007 All-Ireland quarter-final, leading by two points after 65 minutes.
Carr can still recall it: “There were two, three passes that should have been made in the last five minutes, and they weren’t made. And I know that’s very specific stuff.

“But they’ve done the same thing year upon year upon year, and it must be so frustrating for Malachy (O’Rourke).”
While it’s a manager’s job to man-manage, he can “only do so much” to solve this perennial conundrum for non-traditional counties seeking to smash through that glass ceiling.At the end of the day,” he concludes, “it has to come from within the players themselves. It really does.”
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jinxy on August 11, 2018, 06:27:47 PM
Anybody know CPR?
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: trileacman on August 11, 2018, 06:51:01 PM
Tyrone and Galway now proven to be nowhere near the Dubs. Hopes lie with Monaghan who where beaten by Fermanagh this year.

People need to wake up from the dreamworld that Dublin are regressing and football will turn a corner soon. The game we love is dying, being turned into a corporate procession. A famous quote by one of the Dublin supporters on here was that Flynn, Connolly, Brogan and MDMA were the golden generation and when they aged Dublin would drop into the chasing pack. That’s not happening, with the flair of previous Dublin teams being transmuted into the workmanlike efforts of Scully, Howard, Small, Kilkenny and Mannion.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jayop on August 11, 2018, 06:59:40 PM
Not sure that's true.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on August 11, 2018, 08:16:00 PM
Tyrone and Galway now proven to be nowhere near the Dubs. Hopes lie with Monaghan who where beaten by Fermanagh this year.

People need to wake up from the dreamworld that Dublin are regressing and football will turn a corner soon. The game we love is dying, being turned into a corporate procession. A famous quote by one of the Dublin supporters on here was that Flynn, Connolly, Brogan and MDMA were the golden generation and when they aged Dublin would drop into the chasing pack. That’s not happening, with the flair of previous Dublin teams being transmuted into the workmanlike efforts of Scully, Howard, Small, Kilkenny and Mannion.

Of their starting forwards today only Dean Rock was over 25.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Farrandeelin on August 11, 2018, 08:23:39 PM
Tyrone and Galway now proven to be nowhere near the Dubs. Hopes lie with Monaghan who where beaten by Fermanagh this year.

People need to wake up from the dreamworld that Dublin are regressing and football will turn a corner soon. The game we love is dying, being turned into a corporate procession. A famous quote by one of the Dublin supporters on here was that Flynn, Connolly, Brogan and MDMA were the golden generation and when they aged Dublin would drop into the chasing pack. That’s not happening, with the flair of previous Dublin teams being transmuted into the workmanlike efforts of Scully, Howard, Small, Kilkenny and Mannion.

This and the mundane celebration after winning Sam.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Rossfan on August 11, 2018, 08:40:50 PM
So what are we (the GAA) going to do about it?
Let the predictability continue - 13 of the last 14 Leinsters
5 of the last 6 Leagues
5 of the last 7 AIs,  soon to be 6 out of 8.
Who's going to be brave enough to set the ball rolling by tabling a Motion to require Dublin to field 2 teams in Football ( either North and South or City and County)?
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jinxy on August 11, 2018, 08:43:22 PM
That was like watching a Leinster Championship game today, which is the worst possible indictment I can think of.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: trileacman on August 11, 2018, 08:52:52 PM
That was like watching a Leinster Championship game today, which is the worst possible indictment I can think of.

My feelings exactly. That coupled with the non-event against Tyrone last year and the AI championship is morphing into the Leinster championship as Dublin’s shadow looms large over the game.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Itchy on August 11, 2018, 09:21:45 PM
That was like watching a Leinster Championship game today, which is the worst possible indictment I can think of.

My feelings exactly. That coupled with the non-event against Tyrone last year and the AI championship is morphing into the Leinster championship as Dublin’s shadow looms large over the game.

In fairness though it's notvthat the dubs are better this year than last. It's that the chasing pack this year are gone backwards with the demise of Mayo. Dublin weren't even near their best today.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: trileacman on August 11, 2018, 09:25:03 PM
That was like watching a Leinster Championship game today, which is the worst possible indictment I can think of.

My feelings exactly. That coupled with the non-event against Tyrone last year and the AI championship is morphing into the Leinster championship as Dublin’s shadow looms large over the game.

In fairness though it's notvthat the dubs are better this year than last. It's that the chasing pack this year are gone backwards with the demise of Mayo. Dublin weren't even near their best today.

I agree with you there but that’s even worse. Dublin playing attractive, attacking football and walking matches isn’t great for providing interest in the game but Dublin playing poorly and without characteristic flair and still winning pulling up is even worse for the game.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Mayo4Sam14 on August 11, 2018, 10:00:04 PM
So what are we (the GAA) going to do about it?
Let the predictability continue - 13 of the last 14 Leinsters
5 of the last 6 Leagues
5 of the last 7 AIs,  soon to be 6 out of 8.
Who's going to be brave enough to set the ball rolling by tabling a Motion to require Dublin to field 2 teams in Football ( either North and South or City and County)?

So then we can have Dublin v Dublin in the all Ireland?
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: RedHand88 on August 11, 2018, 11:14:57 PM
So what are we (the GAA) going to do about it?
Let the predictability continue - 13 of the last 14 Leinsters
5 of the last 6 Leagues
5 of the last 7 AIs,  soon to be 6 out of 8.
Who's going to be brave enough to set the ball rolling by tabling a Motion to require Dublin to field 2 teams in Football ( either North and South or City and County)?

So then we can have Dublin v Dublin in the all Ireland?

People who advocate splitting Dublin need to realise this is a real possibility!
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Rossfan on August 11, 2018, 11:36:15 PM
Well then the only thing for it is 4 Provincial teams and have a 5 Team All Ireland Championship.
Let the Counties play Provincials without Dublin.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on August 11, 2018, 11:43:34 PM
Well then the only thing for it is 4 Provincial teams and have a 5 Team All Ireland Championship.
Let the Counties play Provincials without Dublin.

I had a similar proposal here a few months back. Make Dublin a province with it's 4 established counties. Revive the Railway cup (5 team round robin, no final, games played in Winter when county championships are over so most players available) so the Dubs can still have their traditional team to get behind for 4 games.

I'd let them get their 6 or 7 in a row first but it should be done by the early to mid 2020's.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Rossfan on August 11, 2018, 11:53:35 PM
When they do the 8 in a row with 30k at their Semi final and about 10k at the other one........then the 2023 Congress might be interesting
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Aaron Boone on August 11, 2018, 11:56:22 PM
When they do the 8 in a row with 30k at their Semi final and about 10k at the other one........then the 2023 Congress might be interesting
Monaghan have beaten them already this year. They will have no fear.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jayop on August 12, 2018, 12:03:05 AM
Or, and hear me out here... People could stop pissing their panties about Dublin and realise that this won't last forever. Sure they have inbuilt advantages and will probably win the majority of all Irelands but other strong teams will come that will break the monopoly. Splitting Dublin in two means you'll just have two Dublin teams to dominate the game.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: From the Bunker on August 12, 2018, 12:10:05 AM
Or, and hear me out here... People could stop pissing their panties about Dublin and realise that this won't last forever. Sure they have inbuilt advantages and will probably win the majority of all Irelands but other strong teams will come that will break the monopoly. Splitting Dublin in two means you'll just have two Dublin teams to dominate the game.

Go back to bed and put your nappy on before you do! We have a Celtic of Scottish football problem here. No one is going to get close. No one. This is not the old inter county football. This is professional.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: sid waddell on August 12, 2018, 12:20:06 AM
Or, and hear me out here... People could stop pissing their panties about Dublin and realise that this won't last forever. Sure they have inbuilt advantages and will probably win the majority of all Irelands but other strong teams will come that will break the monopoly. Splitting Dublin in two means you'll just have two Dublin teams to dominate the game.

Go back to bed and put your nappy on before you do! We have a Celtic of Scottish football problem here. No one is going to get close. No one. This is not the old inter county football. This is professional.
Em, Rangers?

So, I guess the question is: which Gaelic football team can be Rangers?


Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: From the Bunker on August 12, 2018, 12:22:04 AM
Or, and hear me out here... People could stop pissing their panties about Dublin and realise that this won't last forever. Sure they have inbuilt advantages and will probably win the majority of all Irelands but other strong teams will come that will break the monopoly. Splitting Dublin in two means you'll just have two Dublin teams to dominate the game.

Go back to bed and put your nappy on before you do! We have a Celtic of Scottish football problem here. No one is going to get close. No one. This is not the old inter county football. This is professional.
Em, Rangers?

So, I guess the question is: which Gaelic football team can be Rangers?

The other half of Dublin when they spit it!
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Rossfan on August 12, 2018, 12:28:52 AM
When they do the 8 in a row with 30k at their Semi final and about 10k at the other one........then the 2023 Congress might be interesting
Monaghan have beaten them already this year. They will have no fear.
Would that have been in th'oul League? ;)
Oh by the way who actually won th'oul  League?  ;)
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Orchard park on August 12, 2018, 12:48:29 AM
It says loads that we will end up with neutrals wishing for a Kerry revival to put competitiveness into next  years championship
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Rossfan on August 12, 2018, 01:00:39 AM
Sad but true......
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Gold on August 12, 2018, 01:02:21 AM
Was awful today

The ref gave the Dubs everything too...as he did when they played Longford. Awful
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on August 12, 2018, 01:41:03 AM
Was awful today

The ref gave the Dubs everything too...as he did when they played Longford. Awful

I don't know about that, Galway got a few soft frees in the first half which kept them in it. Dublin got a couple in the second half. He ignored a lot of blocking off the ball by both teams, if done by the rules there would have been a few black cards.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jayop on August 12, 2018, 01:54:48 AM
Was awful today

The ref gave the Dubs everything too...as he did when they played Longford. Awful

Nonsense. I actually had a WhatsApp convo with my dub brother in law saying an Ulster team wouldn't get half what Galway got today.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jayop on August 12, 2018, 01:58:01 AM
Or, and hear me out here... People could stop pissing their panties about Dublin and realise that this won't last forever. Sure they have inbuilt advantages and will probably win the majority of all Irelands but other strong teams will come that will break the monopoly. Splitting Dublin in two means you'll just have two Dublin teams to dominate the game.

Go back to bed and put your nappy on before you do! We have a Celtic of Scottish football problem here. No one is going to get close. No one. This is not the old inter county football. This is professional.

f**k me man chat about nappys. Ye had the better of them loads of times recently but shit the togs when it mattered. And tbh ye weren't great apart from the games against them. 2016 we should have beat ye and ye should have beat them.

Tyrone are an average good team and we hand out hidings regularly. Stop panicking every time the best team in the country do the same. They will be beat.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: irish345 on August 12, 2018, 07:20:25 AM
Splitting dublin in two is the worse idea ever shall we split new zealand in two in rugby or usa in two in basketball dont think so.


people need to stop acting snowflakes cause there team cant win an all ireland
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: BarryBreensBandage on August 12, 2018, 08:41:09 AM
Or, and hear me out here... People could stop pissing their panties about Dublin and realise that this won't last forever. Sure they have inbuilt advantages and will probably win the majority of all Irelands but other strong teams will come that will break the monopoly. Splitting Dublin in two means you'll just have two Dublin teams to dominate the game.

Go back to bed and put your nappy on before you do! We have a Celtic of Scottish football problem here. No one is going to get close. No one. This is not the old inter county football. This is professional.

f**k me man chat about nappys. Ye had the better of them loads of times recently but shit the togs when it mattered. And tbh ye weren't great apart from the games against them. 2016 we should have beat ye and ye should have beat them.

Tyrone are an average good team and we hand out hidings regularly. Stop panicking every time the best team in the country do the same. They will be beat.

I would agree with this.
A lot of money/resources has been pumped into Dublin hurling, yet they can't make an overnight success of themselves.
Kerry, Meath, Galway and Monaghan are the minor teams in the AISF lineup.
Kildare won the U20s.

This Dublin team has now got into a habit of winning and is a once in a generation team/management. Galway had their chances yesterday, like many teams before, didn't take them. Dublin took theirs and won.


Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Zulu on August 12, 2018, 09:47:02 AM
Or, and hear me out here... People could stop pissing their panties about Dublin and realise that this won't last forever. Sure they have inbuilt advantages and will probably win the majority of all Irelands but other strong teams will come that will break the monopoly. Splitting Dublin in two means you'll just have two Dublin teams to dominate the game.

Exactly, all this talk of Dublin being unbeatable yet they didn’t have a team in either the U17 or U20 semi finals this year. Kerry have dominated minor for the past 4 years yet people still claim counties can’t compete when they clearly have. Even at senior Mayo, in particular, but Kerry and Donegal have competed. Of course Dublin will be a serious team for many years and will dominate at times but counties with decent populations like Kerry, Mayo, Kildare and Meath etc. can and will compete. Kerry will certainly win an All Ireland in the next three years IMO.

Go back to bed and put your nappy on before you do! We have a Celtic of Scottish football problem here. No one is going to get close. No one. This is not the old inter county football. This is professional.

f**k me man chat about nappys. Ye had the better of them loads of times recently but shit the togs when it mattered. And tbh ye weren't great apart from the games against them. 2016 we should have beat ye and ye should have beat them.

Tyrone are an average good team and we hand out hidings regularly. Stop panicking every time the best team in the country do the same. They will be beat.

I would agree with this.
A lot of money/resources has been pumped into Dublin hurling, yet they can't make an overnight success of themselves.
Kerry, Meath, Galway and Monaghan are the minor teams in the AISF lineup.
Kildare won the U20s.

This Dublin team has now got into a habit of winning and is a once in a generation team/management. Galway had their chances yesterday, like many teams before, didn't take them. Dublin took theirs and won.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: larryin89 on August 12, 2018, 10:00:42 AM
To those who think this dominance will one day end or its just the same as a kerry/Kilkenny type era, my question to you guys is very simple , at what point does it become a problem , five in a row, six , seven eight ??? 18 out of 20? You tell me .

They created a monster and it will eventually destroy the county game as we know it . The big fookin ejits.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: RedHand88 on August 12, 2018, 10:30:14 AM
I'm not old enough to remember Kerry winning 7 out of 9 all Ireland's but for those who are, was there as much talk about the game being dead?
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: From the Bunker on August 12, 2018, 10:49:39 AM
I'm not old enough to remember Kerry winning 7 out of 9 all Ireland's but for those who are, was there as much talk about the game being dead?

I was there for it. It was a procession. Only difference is Kerry won very few League titles during that period. There was also light at the end of the tunnel as the group was getting older each year and little or no youth were being blooded. This is not the case with Dublin. There is a transition happening each year.  Dublin don't shut down for the League either. In other words it's  more relentless than that Kerry era!
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: High Fielder on August 12, 2018, 10:53:43 AM
Dublin had lean periods too, so good luck to them. It's not their fault that things have broken down so badly. My biggest gripe with the GAA is the prescriptive nature of the sport. If you're from any one of the smaller counties, you can literally never play at the highest level, simply because of where you come from. That's bordering on anti competitive
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: imtommygunn on August 12, 2018, 10:53:52 AM
The system is geared to the big teams now too. Dublin are unlikely to be beat in leinster but say in the super 8s some year kerry, tyrone or mayo/ gaway or someone sneak a win they're still in it.kerry could have, and occassionally did, slipup.

System is geared to the best teams now. More than that even - the best squads.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: sid waddell on August 12, 2018, 10:55:34 AM
To those who think this dominance will one day end or its just the same as a kerry/Kilkenny type era, my question to you guys is very simple , at what point does it become a problem , five in a row, six , seven eight ??? 18 out of 20? You tell me .

They created a monster and it will eventually destroy the county game as we know it . The big fookin ejits.
Crossmaglen won 19 Armagh championships out of 20.

Was there talk about splitting them into separate "Cross" and "Maglen" teams?

Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Rossfan on August 12, 2018, 11:04:18 AM
I'm not old enough to remember Kerry winning 7 out of 9 all Ireland's but for those who are, was there as much talk about the game being dead?
17k and 19k at All Ireland Semi Finals.
The monster has been created and isn't going away.
39,000 registered players. 1.4m population, most games at home, multi national sponsorship, HQ joining forces with them,  free cars etc etc
54k yesterday - the downward slope has begun at National level.
It's been ongoing in Leinster for 5 or 6 years now.
Sin é.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: sid waddell on August 12, 2018, 11:16:34 AM
54k used to be considered a massive crowd at an All-Ireland semi-final.

53k attended the 1979 All-Ireland hurling final.

8k attended the Cork v Galway 1985 All-Ireland hurling semi-final.

8k attended the 1980 Leinster hurling final.

"The golden era".



Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: larryin89 on August 12, 2018, 11:18:33 AM
If you want to have a silly debate that's fine and dandy but it's all totally out of context . People are living in cuckoland if they genuinely believe this Dublin era is comparable to any other at county level , this is brand new . It's not Dublins fault per se , this was created and what we have now is the realisation by Dublin GAA they have the resources , logistics, finance and population advantages to keep this going for as long as they want .

My point is , how do you keep interest in the rest going , surely there comes a time when we as GAA people start to worry about the direction of the county , say for example in three years time and Dublin still haven't been knocked off their run and 3k Mayo/Kerry/Galway or whoever they are playing supporters turn up for a semi final because of the inevitability of the result. I'm hand on heart asking you where does it stop .
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: High Fielder on August 12, 2018, 11:33:40 AM
It's not about "stopping" what's going on. It should be about improving the situation for everyone. The best players in each county deserve the chance to play at the highest level. At the very least, Provincial Champions should have to play the rest of the Province to progress further. If we continue to ignore smaller counties, the game will die from the bottom up. There has to be a realistic pathway for every kid to play at the highest level. Otherwise it's not worth the bother
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: sid waddell on August 12, 2018, 11:40:03 AM
If you want to have a silly debate that's fine and dandy but it's all totally out of context . People are living in cuckoland if they genuinely believe this Dublin era is comparable to any other at county level , this is brand new .
Kilkenny won 11 out of 16 hurling All-Irelands between 2000 and 2015 and competed in 16 out of 19 All-Ireland finals between 1998 and 2016.

That is more than comparable.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Hardy on August 12, 2018, 11:41:04 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/media-and-marketing/aig-renews-sponsorship-with-dublin-gaa-in-4m-deal-1.3487922
 (https://www.irishtimes.com/business/media-and-marketing/aig-renews-sponsorship-with-dublin-gaa-in-4m-deal-1.3487922)
http://www.leitrimgaa.ie/sponsors/ (http://www.leitrimgaa.ie/sponsors/)

Discuss/defend.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: High Fielder on August 12, 2018, 11:49:21 AM
Good luck to Dublin. They can only keep doing what they're doing, and it's working for them. But it's like comparing Man City with Fleetwood Town. All they have in common is the same number of players on the pitch and that's not enough
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: BarryBreensBandage on August 12, 2018, 11:57:19 AM
It's not about "stopping" what's going on. It should be about improving the situation for everyone. The best players in each county deserve the chance to play at the highest level. At the very least, Provincial Champions should have to play the rest of the Province to progress further. If we continue to ignore smaller counties, the game will die from the bottom up. There has to be a realistic pathway for every kid to play at the highest level. Otherwise it's not worth the bother

I agree HF. I think this has to come from clubs, schools, county boards and their ability to plan and provide a platform for anyone who wants to play Gaelic Football.
If I look at the 100 or so lads that I would have played football with over my career, three of the old hands played in Down division 1, 1 played in an Ulster Final for Down at minor level. Plenty gave/received a load of hard knocks and bad injuries for not much really - my point being that the majority of GAA players will never reach the county standard or get to play at the highest level.

But being involved in a GAA club has to be one of the best and most important decisions any Irish family can make.
It will only be when the GAA focus on the clubs and build a base for the continuing strength of clubs in the community, will each county realise it's full potential.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: didlyi on August 12, 2018, 12:10:00 PM
It seems a contradiction that the one team that neutrals tune in to see is being blamed for the death of Gaelic Football. Its not Dublins fault that for instance Galway v Mayo was a terrible game, and several other games that did not include Dublin. When Kilkenny were winning allirelands one of the greatest rivalrys in the Gaa was at its peak in Cork v Waterford. Classic after Classic when they met throughout the naughties. When Dublin are brought down, and they will, we might all be scratching our heads wondering where did it all go wrong.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: irish345 on August 12, 2018, 12:31:10 PM
its not all about intercounty football maybe there should be more dont to promote the club game and live games on rte
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jinxy on August 12, 2018, 12:41:18 PM
Thank god for hurling.
What a grim summer it would have been otherwise.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Rossfan on August 12, 2018, 12:54:46 PM
How many of ye would watch Elphin v Strokestown?
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: larryin89 on August 12, 2018, 12:59:02 PM
How many of ye would watch Elphin v Strokestown?

I would , I love Gaelic football though , if I'm passing by the castle in malahide on my way home from work and there's even a schools match on I'll stop and watch it .  I'm sure there's plenty that just love the game  .  The style and freedom of underage football I find far more enjoyable to watch too though I have to admit .
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: The Hill is Blue on August 12, 2018, 01:19:46 PM
How many of ye would watch Elphin v Strokestown?

I would , I love Gaelic football though , if I'm passing by the castle in malahide on my way home from work and there's even a schools match on I'll stop and watch it .  I'm sure there's plenty that just love the game  .  The style and freedom of underage football I find far more enjoyable to watch too though I have to admit .

Do you never go to watch the Syls?  ;)
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jinxy on August 12, 2018, 01:42:15 PM
One immediate positive change would be a big reduction in ticket prices for the super 8s.
There is an opportunity next year to undo some of the damage that was done this year and counter the 'Grab All Association' narrative.
Do whatever it takes to keep people going to games, because once you fall out of the habit, suddenly the TV seems like the sensible option.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: armaghniac on August 12, 2018, 01:51:22 PM
One immediate positive change would be a big reduction in ticket prices for the super 8s.
There is an opportunity next year to undo some of the damage that was done this year and counter the 'Grab All Association' narrative.
Do whatever it takes to keep people going to games, because once you fall out of the habit, suddenly the TV seems like the sensible option.

Reducing prices for games where people can't get in is not necessarily a wise move.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jinxy on August 12, 2018, 02:06:45 PM
Why not?
Particularly if they are going to persist with a round in Croke Park.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: BarryBreensBandage on August 12, 2018, 02:07:19 PM
One immediate positive change would be a big reduction in ticket prices for the super 8s.
There is an opportunity next year to undo some of the damage that was done this year and counter the 'Grab All Association' narrative.
Do whatever it takes to keep people going to games, because once you fall out of the habit, suddenly the TV seems like the sensible option.

100%. Yesterday was my first time at Croke Park in a while, Slaughtneil's first club final I think was the last, and I had forgotten what a good day out it was. I enjoyed it far more than if I had have watched it on the telly.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: larryin89 on August 12, 2018, 02:07:34 PM
How many of ye would watch Elphin v Strokestown?

I would , I love Gaelic football though , if I'm passing by the castle in malahide on my way home from work and there's even a schools match on I'll stop and watch it .  I'm sure there's plenty that just love the game  .  The style and freedom of underage football I find far more enjoyable to watch too though I have to admit .

Do you never go to watch the Syls?  ;)

Haha of course but not massively attached
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: larryin89 on August 12, 2018, 02:09:14 PM
One immediate positive change would be a big reduction in ticket prices for the super 8s.
There is an opportunity next year to undo some of the damage that was done this year and counter the 'Grab All Association' narrative.
Do whatever it takes to keep people going to games, because once you fall out of the habit, suddenly the TV seems like the sensible option.

What percentage roughly do you think it would increase attendance by ?
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: From the Bunker on August 12, 2018, 02:34:13 PM
One immediate positive change would be a big reduction in ticket prices for the super 8s.
There is an opportunity next year to undo some of the damage that was done this year and counter the 'Grab All Association' narrative.
Do whatever it takes to keep people going to games, because once you fall out of the habit, suddenly the TV seems like the sensible option.

What percentage roughly do you think it would increase attendance by ?

Price drop is grand if you are a Dub and all the games are on your doorstep. And you are winning. Donegal fans won't go to Croker just for a cheap game!
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: rodney trotter on August 12, 2018, 05:54:34 PM
It was hard to get even excited about the Semi finals. The super 8s seem to have killed the interest in the Semis. Teams playing consecutIve weeks and then into the Semi final.

The crowds were poor as well for the Semi finals.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: mrdeeds on August 12, 2018, 06:00:19 PM
It was hard to get even excited about the Semi finals. The super 8s seem to have killed the interest in the Semis. Teams playing consecutIve weeks and then into the Semi final.

The crowds were poor as well for the Semi finals.

Unless you're Dublin with a huge squad who does so many games benefit?
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Cunny Funt on August 12, 2018, 06:15:40 PM
It was hard to get even excited about the Semi finals. The super 8s seem to have killed the interest in the Semis. Teams playing consecutIve weeks and then into the Semi final.

The crowds were poor as well for the Semi finals.

Unless you're Dublin with a huge squad who does so many games benefit?


The GAA HQ lads more games equals more cash but i have no doubt they expected bigger crowds for their new money making format. 
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Aaron Boone on August 12, 2018, 06:20:48 PM
It was hard to get even excited about the Semi finals. The super 8s seem to have killed the interest in the Semis. Teams playing consecutIve weeks and then into the Semi final.

The crowds were poor as well for the Semi finals.

Still over 100,000 people attended.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: larryin89 on August 12, 2018, 06:53:27 PM
As a matter of interest has the attendance for a semi final involving Dublin been that low before ?
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: sid waddell on August 12, 2018, 07:07:10 PM
As a matter of interest has the attendance for a semi final involving Dublin been that low before ?
It's the lowest since the 1994 All-Ireland semi-final against Leitrim. However that game had a much lower capacity due to the Cusack Stand being reveloped and was effectively a sell-out.

The last time there was a genuinely poorly attended semi-final involving Dublin was the drawn game against Mayo in 1985 - 40k according to Wikipedia.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: larryin89 on August 12, 2018, 07:09:26 PM
That doesn't bode well for the domination plan .
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: rodney trotter on August 13, 2018, 06:01:02 PM
It was hard to get even excited about the Semi finals. The super 8s seem to have killed the interest in the Semis. Teams playing consecutIve weeks and then into the Semi final.

The crowds were poor as well for the Semi finals.

Still over 100,000 people attended.

Croke Park holds 82,000. Over 100,000 for 2 Semi finals is nothing to shout about.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: thejuice on August 13, 2018, 10:39:03 PM
Super8 isn’t a good format. I think a World Cup format works better and just do away with back doors.

That said the best way to close the gap is too forget training bans and introduce obligatory drinking after games and mid week. Every player has to drink 6 pints in their local every Wednesday and in the nearest establishment to the stadium with their teammates after games. Bonus points awarded to teams that drink more than the minimum 6 and further points for making it to the disco afterwards and finishing a quarter pounder and chips in Macari’s afterwards.

Getting home with a young wan is a bonus it’s self so no points for that.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: larryin89 on August 13, 2018, 10:51:42 PM
Super8 isn’t a good format. I think a World Cup format works better and just do away with back doors.

That said the best way to close the gap is too forget training bans and introduce obligatory drinking after games and mid week. Every player has to drink 6 pints in their local every Wednesday and in the nearest establishment to the stadium with their teammates after games. Bonus points awarded to teams that drink more than the minimum 6 and further points for making it to the disco afterwards and finishing a quarter pounder and chips in Macari’s afterwards.

Getting home with a young wan is a bonus it’s self so no points for that.

Brilliant
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jinxy on August 13, 2018, 11:02:04 PM
Time to go back to straight knock-out manly football.
We were all happier then.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: rrhf on August 13, 2018, 11:03:06 PM
Time to go back to straight knock-out manly football.
We were all happier then.
Jinxy for president!
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: From the Bunker on August 13, 2018, 11:52:57 PM
Time to go back to straight knock-out manly football.
We were all happier then.

The present format that drags out a competition of half meaningless games toward the latter part, with Dublin inevitably winning is the best!
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Ball Hopper on August 14, 2018, 12:16:20 AM
Make the provincials Group games.


If the Ulster championship had 2 groups playing with top 2 making semis you'd have some cracking games.

Group Placing to be decided by league position with top Ulster team in A, next in B, then alternating groups.

This year would have Group A:  Monaghan, Donegal, Down, Fermanagh and Antrim

Group B: Tyrone, Cavan, Armagh, Derry.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Rossfan on August 14, 2018, 08:41:53 AM
And in Munster. .....
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: lenny on August 14, 2018, 09:00:47 AM
And in Munster. .....

Just one group of 6. Top 2 make final or top 4 make semis. Simple.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: APM on August 14, 2018, 09:08:37 AM
Time to go back to straight knock-out manly football.
We were all happier then.
Jinxy for president!

Proper order: Then you wouldn't have teams making the final having lost 2 games!
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Rossfan on August 14, 2018, 09:11:48 AM
And in Munster. .....

Just one group of 6. Top 2 make final or top 4 make semis. Simple.
And the average winning margins?
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: johnnycool on August 14, 2018, 11:03:40 AM
Offaly to bring a motion forward at congress 2019 to allow certain types of tackles.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BmbJFihnja_/ (https://www.instagram.com/p/BmbJFihnja_/)

That'd get the fans on their feet again.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jinxy on August 14, 2018, 11:40:48 AM
I saw somebody mention elsewhere the 'basketball-like' nature of restarts now, where short kick-outs are the name of the game and there is no physical contest for possession.
This facilitates slow, cautious build-up play from the back.
Now that there is an actual reward for high-fielding, should we look at implementing a rule whereby all kick-outs must cross the 45m line?
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Taylor on August 14, 2018, 11:54:21 AM
I saw somebody mention elsewhere the 'basketball-like' nature of restarts now, where short kick-outs are the name of the game and there is no physical contest for possession.
This facilitates slow, cautious build-up play from the back.
Now that there is an actual reward for high-fielding, should we look at implementing a rule whereby all kick-outs must cross the 45m line?

Absolutely for all county games.

Wouldnt be enforceable at club level as some keepers cant even reach the 45
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jinxy on August 14, 2018, 12:03:30 PM
Yeah, I'd agree.
To be honest, I think that there are specific rules that should apply to the inter-county game alone, i.e. if we were to go down the road of a ref in each half, that obviously wouldn't be practical at club level.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: From the Bunker on August 14, 2018, 12:09:02 PM
Fans who are hoping to attend the All-Ireland football and hurling finals will need to buy separate tickets for babies or young infants that are travelling with them.

Tickets will be at a premium for the upcoming decider between Dublin and Tyrone in the All-Ireland SFC decider, as well as the clash between Galway and Limerick in the corresponding hurling fixture.

All fans will need an individual ticket for those fixtures at Croke Park as outlined under the terms and conditions on the official GAA website.

"For 'all-ticket' events every person [including infants] entering the venue must have a ticket. Please note all events in Croke Park are 'all-ticket'," it says.

Tyrone supporter Caoimhe Hill McCann brought her 16-week-old son Connla to the All-Ireland SFC semi-final against Monaghan on Sunday, which was his seventh game to attend this season.

McCann told RTÉ Sport that she didn't require a ticket for her son when attending previous fixtures at venues this year including Omagh, Carlow, Navan and Ballybofey. She also said she was not aware that a baby would need a ticket for all-ticket games.

But when she approached the turnstiles at Croke Park, she was stopped along with her husband Johnny and informed that their baby - who his mother was carrying in a sling - would require a ticket.

"There was a young girl taking tickets and she asked if we had a third ticket. We thought she was joking thinking that he didn't need a ticket for him yet. She told us we couldn't get access without a ticket for him," she said.

"She went and got her supervisor and he came to the turnstiles to speak to us and said there was no entry without a ticket. We told him he didn't need a seat and that he would be attached to me but they said that was irrelevant and told us we needed to go down and buy him a ticket."

The McCanns were assisted by stewards to obtain a ticket for the last-four tie but the delay in gaining entry resulted in them missing the first 10 minutes of the game.

They will also need a ticket for the baby when Tyrone take on Dublin in the All-Ireland final.

"You don't want to be buying a ticket for the baby if it means that somebody else is going to lose out. I just think the way it works needs to be reviewed," she added.

Speaking to RTÉ Sport, the GAA's Director of Communications Alan Milton explained that all spectators require a ticket for ticket-based fixtures due to health and safety reasons.

"It's a long-held practise and most people would be aware of it because we put it in the public domain every now and then."

"Every person coming to the stadium requires a ticket. It's for health and safety and it's just best practise. It has to be black and white for health and safety reasons."

By contrast, the IRFU Director of Communications Stephen McNamara told RTÉ Sport that babies under two years of age do not require a ticket for Ireland internationals at the Aviva grounds as outlined on the stadium's website.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: mouview on August 14, 2018, 12:16:55 PM
Fans who are hoping to attend the All-Ireland football and hurling finals will need to buy separate tickets for babies or young infants that are travelling with them.

etc.

This was always the way, don't know why they're raising Cain about it now. Leave the child at home if you have to or let Mom stay at home too.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: From the Bunker on August 14, 2018, 12:25:09 PM
Fans who are hoping to attend the All-Ireland football and hurling finals will need to buy separate tickets for babies or young infants that are travelling with them.

etc.

This was always the way, don't know why they're raising Cain about it now. Leave the child at home if you have to or let Mom stay at home too.

I have no problem with AI finals. That is a correct call. But semi-finals are usually a family day! Having to dish out extra money for a young child is a disgrace.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Halfquarter on August 14, 2018, 12:29:11 PM
Fans who are hoping to attend the All-Ireland football and hurling finals will need to buy separate tickets for babies or young infants that are travelling with them.

etc.

This was always the way, don't know why they're raising Cain about it now. Leave the child at home if you have to or let Mom stay at home too.

Or the daddy could stay at home and allow mother and baby attend !
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: yellowcard on August 14, 2018, 12:29:55 PM
Does this mean that the IRFU are in breach of 'health and safety' protocols or is it just another example of the GAA being a stickler for rules and regulations that are so out of touch?
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: trueblue1234 on August 14, 2018, 12:30:08 PM
Fans who are hoping to attend the All-Ireland football and hurling finals will need to buy separate tickets for babies or young infants that are travelling with them.

etc.

This was always the way, don't know why they're raising Cain about it now. Leave the child at home if you have to or let Mom stay at home too.

I have no problem with AI finals. That is a correct call. But semi-finals are usually a family day! Having to dish out extra money for a young child is a disgrace.
This is a baby that isn't even taking up a seat. It shouldn't even be an issue with the final. I expect the GAA to look at this fairly sharpish.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: armaghniac on August 14, 2018, 12:37:56 PM
If you can fly on an aeroplane without buying a seat for a baby then so should you be able to do so in a stadium. In both cases though there an anti social effect for other patrons.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Halfquarter on August 14, 2018, 12:38:37 PM
Does this mean that the IRFU are in breach of 'health and safety' protocols or is it just another example of the GAA being a stickler for rules and regulations that are so out of touch?

I'd be more concerned with the health and safety of the baby, all that noise cannot be good .
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: yellowcard on August 14, 2018, 12:43:30 PM
Does this mean that the IRFU are in breach of 'health and safety' protocols or is it just another example of the GAA being a stickler for rules and regulations that are so out of touch?

I'd be more concerned with the health and safety of the baby, all that noise cannot be good .

The vast majority of gaelic football matches in recent times would surely have been a perfect environment for sleeping, you can often hear voices shouting on the pitch these days.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: APM on August 14, 2018, 12:48:04 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/football-crowds-at-croke-park-are-low-and-gaa-is-unsure-why-1.3595250?mode=amp


No mystery here:
An all-Ireland semi between Tyrone and Monaghan should be packed to the rafters.  People are voting with their feet and the GAA don't understand it.  It's obvious. 

Finally, this was meant to be a joke.  But its on the trajectory!!

Because no matter what anyone tries to tell you, for those who play the game, it’s all about winning and not entertainment.

I really worry for some people. They want change, not sure what they exactly want, but change, even if we have to introduce some ridiculous rules. Similar to those who voted Brexit. Some very confused people around.

Who says I haven't played the game?
There's some patronising shite on here!  Come back to me lads when Tyrone win an All-Ireland in 2045 in front of 20,000 people in Portlaoise and tell me then that this win was as good as 2005, even though it no longer captures the imagination and interest of the county.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jinxy on August 14, 2018, 12:54:03 PM
If you can fly on an aeroplane without buying a seat for a baby then so should you be able to do so in a stadium. In both cases though there an anti social effect for other patrons.

That applies to sitting beside Tyrone supporters in general though.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: sligoman2 on August 14, 2018, 01:13:28 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/football-crowds-at-croke-park-are-low-and-gaa-is-unsure-why-1.3595250?mode=amp


No mystery here:
  • they need to read this thread
  • they need to understand:
    • our game is becoming like soccer and this isn't what we signed up to
    • the style of football is killing the atmosphere at games and with no atmosphere, we might as well watch on TV
    • the kind of football that people want to watch, doesn't win All-Irelands right now
    • while the pundits may have a point, they are doing their best to undermine the product that they should be selling
    • that managers shouldn't have a say in rule changes - they should be told to f**k off because of their vested interest in the status quo
    • tickets are too expensive
An all-Ireland semi between Tyrone and Monaghan should be packed to the rafters.  People are voting with their feet and the GAA don't understand it.  It's obvious. 

Finally, this was meant to be a joke.  But its on the trajectory!!

Because no matter what anyone tries to tell you, for those who play the game, it’s all about winning and not entertainment.

I really worry for some people. They want change, not sure what they exactly want, but change, even if we have to introduce some ridiculous rules. Similar to those who voted Brexit. Some very confused people around.

Who says I haven't played the game?
There's some patronising shite on here!  Come back to me lads when Tyrone win an All-Ireland in 2045 in front of 20,000 people in Portlaoise and tell me then that this win was as good as 2005, even though it no longer captures the imagination and interest of the county.

Not a joke at all AMP. This is the first year in my life that I have lost interest in football and I’m sure I’m not alone.  Watching hundreds of handpasses, almost no fielding, fear of losing possession, kicking the ball backwards time after time etc...
I can’t believe that someone from the gaa said they don’t understand the fall in attendance.  It’s because the game has lost its spontaneity, it’s boring and one team is dominating.

In other words the product is shyte from a neutral spectator point of view.  Wake up Croke Park ......
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: five points on August 14, 2018, 01:17:47 PM
Not a joke at all AMP. This is the first year in my life that I have lost interest in football and I’m sure I’m not alone.  Watching hundreds of handpasses, almost no fielding, fear of losing possession, kicking the ball backwards time after time etc...
I can’t believe that someone from the gaa said they don’t understand the fall in attendance.  It’s because the game has lost its spontaneity, it’s boring and one team is dominating.

In other words the product is shyte from a neutral spectator point of view.  Wake up Croke Park ......

+1    And I'm a lifetime football fanatic.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jinxy on August 14, 2018, 01:20:38 PM
That's pretty much my perspective as well.
I used to go mad when I found out games were exclusively on SKY and I wouldn't be able to watch them.
Now I don't care.
Not missing anything.
You can tell people that they are misty-eyed traditionalists, who should be appreciating the intricacies of modern kick-out strategies and defensive systems, but at the end of the day people are voting with their eyeballs and feet.
If dyed-in-the-wool GAA people are not that bothered about attending or watching the games, what hope is there that the casual viewer will have any interest?
We live in the age of 'products' and at the moment gaelic football is a very poor product.
The great thing is, we can fix it.
Is there a will to grasp the nettle?
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: yellowcard on August 14, 2018, 01:23:45 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/football-crowds-at-croke-park-are-low-and-gaa-is-unsure-why-1.3595250?mode=amp


No mystery here:
  • they need to read this thread
  • they need to understand:
    • our game is becoming like soccer and this isn't what we signed up to
    • the style of football is killing the atmosphere at games and with no atmosphere, we might as well watch on TV
    • the kind of football that people want to watch, doesn't win All-Irelands right now
    • while the pundits may have a point, they are doing their best to undermine the product that they should be selling
    • that managers shouldn't have a say in rule changes - they should be told to f**k off because of their vested interest in the status quo
    • tickets are too expensive
An all-Ireland semi between Tyrone and Monaghan should be packed to the rafters.  People are voting with their feet and the GAA don't understand it.  It's obvious. 

Finally, this was meant to be a joke.  But its on the trajectory!!

Because no matter what anyone tries to tell you, for those who play the game, it’s all about winning and not entertainment.

I really worry for some people. They want change, not sure what they exactly want, but change, even if we have to introduce some ridiculous rules. Similar to those who voted Brexit. Some very confused people around.

Who says I haven't played the game?
There's some patronising shite on here!  Come back to me lads when Tyrone win an All-Ireland in 2045 in front of 20,000 people in Portlaoise and tell me then that this win was as good as 2005, even though it no longer captures the imagination and interest of the county.

Excellent summary right there.

I'm not sure whether pundits have any obligation to sell the product though? I'd prefer that they say it as they see it whether good, bad or indifferent.

The county managers have far too much to say and have plenty of skin in the game. They are often protecting their own self interest but are ssimply in a bubble where they cannot see how the spectacle is suffering. The crowd engagement at live matches has been dramatically reduced in the last 6/7 years. It is common now to have a conversation not related to the match during the actual match. There is a reduced sense of crowd involvement and the live experience of being at a match has suffered. Many people will still go regardless of the spectacle due to the tribal nature of the GAA but plenty of die hard GAA followers that I know have been completely turned off by the spectacle in recent years. 
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Zulu on August 14, 2018, 01:32:36 PM
Have to admit it's the same with me. I was at the game on Sunday and I thought it was decent and the atmosphere was great for the last 10 minutes but there's no real flow to games now and few games engage you if you're a neutral. I still coach Gaelic football and will continue to watch as I don't really have much interest in watching sports other than football or hurling but if football continues to go down the route it's going then I'll probably only watch bigger when it's handy for me to do. I used to make sure I was free to watch the games, now I'm too bothered if I miss most games.

It's a shame, as the sport is still the best in the world for me and when you get a great game there's nothing to match it but even modern 'great' games often have lull periods where teams pass the ball around for no real reason and you're hoping nobody ends up 3 or 4 ahead with 10 minutes to go as they'll probably just try to see it out with pass the parcel and cynical fouling of their opponents.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jinxy on August 14, 2018, 01:32:43 PM
Getting back to the potential rule changes, I remember when the first thing I thought of before every game was who was going to win the midfield battle.
Each time John McDermott plucked the ball out of the sky, our spirits would soar.
It felt like a score almost.
Likewise in other counties with Whelan, Tohill, O'Sé, Walsh etc.
Midfielders had this totemic quality and as individuals they could bring massive influence to bear on the game.
It was your best guy and their best guy going toe to toe.
Now they are pretty much just link men.
There are plenty of excellent fielders playing the game now, but they rarely get the opportunity to exercise the skill.
I think we can have a happy medium between the modern midfield running role and the more traditional 'fielder' role.
And all we have to do is make the keepers go long on every kick-out.
Also, it's much harder to play 'keep-ball' and run down the clock when you have contested possession for every restart.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Christmas Lights on August 14, 2018, 01:37:14 PM
Getting back to the potential rule changes, I remember when the first thing I thought of before every game was who was going to win the midfield battle.
Each time John McDermott plucked the ball out of the sky, our spirits would soar.
It felt like a score almost.
Likewise in other counties with Whelan, Tohill, O'Sé, Walsh etc.
Midfielders had this totemic quality and as individuals they could bring massive influence to bear on the game.
It was your best guy and their best guy going toe to toe.
Now they are pretty much just link men.
There are plenty of excellent fielders playing the game now, but they rarely get the opportunity to exercise the skill.
I think we can have a happy medium between the modern midfield running role and the more traditional 'fielder' role.
And all we have to do is make the keepers go long on every kick-out.
Also, it's much harder to play 'keep-ball' and run down the clock when you have contested possession for every restart.

Why don't you watch Aussie Rules mate?  Piles of high fielding in it and loads of wayward hospital ball kick passing to team mates.

Knock yourself out.....literally.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: RedHand88 on August 14, 2018, 01:37:22 PM
Getting back to the potential rule changes, I remember when the first thing I thought of before every game was who was going to win the midfield battle.
Each time John McDermott plucked the ball out of the sky, our spirits would soar.
It felt like a score almost.
Likewise in other counties with Whelan, Tohill, O'Sé, Walsh etc.
Midfielders had this totemic quality and as individuals they could bring massive influence to bear on the game.
It was your best guy and their best guy going toe to toe.
Now they are pretty much just link men.
There are plenty of excellent fielders playing the game now, but they rarely get the opportunity to exercise the skill.
I think we can have a happy medium between the modern midfield running role and the more traditional 'fielder' role.
And all we have to do is make the keepers go long on every kick-out.
Also, it's much harder to play 'keep-ball' and run down the clock when you have contested possession for every restart.

Did you not see Colm Cavanagh on Sunday?
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: hardstation on August 14, 2018, 01:39:10 PM
the sport is still the best in the world for me
Ahhhh!!! You can’t say that. I’m offended. What is it with these Gaelic Football snobs having to come out with ridiculous statements like this?
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Zulu on August 14, 2018, 01:39:51 PM
You know Jinxy that isn't a bad call at all. A lot of sports (soccer, American football, rugby, Aussie rules) have a set restart after a score so there's no reason we can't restart with a kick beyond the 45. While I enjoy watching keepers hit their man even if it's short it does lead to a running game. As you say, high fetching contests in the middle are one of the great things about our game.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Zulu on August 14, 2018, 01:41:01 PM
the sport is still the best in the world for me
Ahhhh!!! You can’t say that. I’m offended. What is it with these Gaelic Football snobs having to come out with ridiculous statements like this?

 ;D ;D
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jinxy on August 14, 2018, 01:52:24 PM
Getting back to the potential rule changes, I remember when the first thing I thought of before every game was who was going to win the midfield battle.
Each time John McDermott plucked the ball out of the sky, our spirits would soar.
It felt like a score almost.
Likewise in other counties with Whelan, Tohill, O'Sé, Walsh etc.
Midfielders had this totemic quality and as individuals they could bring massive influence to bear on the game.
It was your best guy and their best guy going toe to toe.
Now they are pretty much just link men.
There are plenty of excellent fielders playing the game now, but they rarely get the opportunity to exercise the skill.
I think we can have a happy medium between the modern midfield running role and the more traditional 'fielder' role.
And all we have to do is make the keepers go long on every kick-out.
Also, it's much harder to play 'keep-ball' and run down the clock when you have contested possession for every restart.

Did you not see Colm Cavanagh on Sunday?

Yes, I did see him.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: APM on August 14, 2018, 02:02:14 PM
the sport is still the best in the world for me
Ahhhh!!! You can’t say that. I’m offended. What is it with these Gaelic Football snobs having to come out with ridiculous statements like this?

Maybe for you it is, but I would draw a distinction between loyalty and enjoyment.  I would have a strong sense of loyalty to Gaelic Football and would defend it strongly from outside criticism. But while 20 years ago, I would have said that 80% of games were great entertainment, I would say that is now seriously diminished.  When you do get a good game, Dublin v Mayo finals - Kerry v Mayo semi replay, Monaghan v Kerry, there is no better game in the world for me. 

But there are too many bad games for all the reasons above, that give no entertainment - I have been to these games, which have been a waste of money and an even greater waste of time, which for me is a bigger issue.  Some people have a serious problem in being honest about this for some reason.  20 years ago, I watched loads of games as a neutral.  Now, I wouldn't be that pushed and as someone that is a loyal fan, interested in enough in the game to register on this board, that should be worrying for the GAA.  Because if I'm losing interest, what does that say for the fair weather fans who are voting with their feet. 
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: yellowcard on August 14, 2018, 02:08:03 PM
I don't think that too many people would disagree that the game has turned into too much of a possession based game with very limited contested possession outside of the attacking teams 45 metre line. Then you have the blight of the handpass, the backwards pass and the often pointless retention of possession. We need more contested duels in the game where there is an opportunity to turn possession over.

1) Restrict the handpass to 3/4 consecutive.
2) Ban the backwards pass inside your own half
3) All kick outs must be kicked past the 45 metre line (there was a token attempt to increase this 7 metres in the last year but nothing much has changed).

This will all lead to more duels for possession, more physical contests, more kick passing and more engagement for supporters.

There are other more technical/refereeing issues that need addressing such as a time clock and a review of the black card but fix the above and it would help the game dramatically.

 
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: From the Bunker on August 14, 2018, 02:10:05 PM
Hard to know if it is the standard or the lack of hope? Hope is what all counties should have at the beginning of every year. I used to get excited about Championship even when we had little hope. I used to be interested in how other counties were getting on even when my own was out or still in the Championship. I used to love the Trips to Croker. Feck I used to love going to the see the other halfs county.

The Super 8 only prolonged the agony this season. Trying to take more money from the genuine fan. It was put in place to take advantage of the biggest cash cow - Mayo. Sadly for the GAA Mayo failed to make the Super 8's and thus a huge windfall was lost.

I said this last year. The Super 8 would be a failure. The main reason is that we have a Super 1, a decent 5 and a fell across the line 2. Intensity is lost in a league format.

Quarter finals should be straight knockout!

It's been a long time since I've missed so many games that were televised, going to games involving Mayo that I never miss. I deleted my Season Ticket a/c this season before the Galway match. These days I have better things to be doing. Maybe I'm just getting older? Maybe this was just a fad?

I'm still involved in coaching. Love watching underage games involving my club.

Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: APM on August 14, 2018, 02:22:33 PM
Hard to know if it is the standard or the lack of hope? Hope is what all counties should have at the beginning of every year. I used to get excited about Championship even when we had little hope. I used to be interested in how other counties were getting on even when my own was out or still in the Championship. I used to love the Trips to Croker. Feck I used to love going to the see the other halfs county.

The Super 8 only prolonged the agony this season. Trying to take more money from the genuine fan. It was put in place to take advantage of the biggest cash cow - Mayo. Sadly for the GAA Mayo failed to make the Super 8's and thus a huge windfall was lost.

I said this last year. The Super 8 would be a failure. The main reason is that we have a Super 1, a decent 5 and a fell across the line 2. Intensity is lost in a league format.

Quarter finals should be straight knockout!

It's been a long time since I've missed so many games that were televised, going to games involving Mayo that I never miss. I deleted my Season Ticket a/c this season before the Galway match. These days I have better things to be doing. Maybe I'm just getting older? Maybe this was just a fad?

I'm still involved in coaching. Love watching underage games involving my club.

Hope is important for the neutral too! Its why we support the underdog and why people rooted for Mayo.  But, Mayo's approach to the game, and to a slightly lesser extent, Monaghan is also attractive.  Maybe I'm biased in favour of the underdog, but they have tended to be more direct, confrontational and adventurous.  Some people might call them naive, but to me, I can really get behind these teams and I find their games much more watchable than Dublin, Tyrone or Galway. 

Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: johnnycool on August 14, 2018, 02:26:24 PM
Getting back to the potential rule changes, I remember when the first thing I thought of before every game was who was going to win the midfield battle.
Each time John McDermott plucked the ball out of the sky, our spirits would soar.
It felt like a score almost.
Likewise in other counties with Whelan, Tohill, O'Sé, Walsh etc.
Midfielders had this totemic quality and as individuals they could bring massive influence to bear on the game.
It was your best guy and their best guy going toe to toe.
Now they are pretty much just link men.
There are plenty of excellent fielders playing the game now, but they rarely get the opportunity to exercise the skill.
I think we can have a happy medium between the modern midfield running role and the more traditional 'fielder' role.
And all we have to do is make the keepers go long on every kick-out.
Also, it's much harder to play 'keep-ball' and run down the clock when you have contested possession for every restart.

My first love is hurling and always has been but have been to a good few Down football games when I didn't have the kiddies to bring on tow and I'm not averse to sitting down to watch one, which I attempted to do on Sunday with the Tyrone/Monaghan game on TV but there was little entertainment or excitement on show barring the few periods when the scorelines were reasonably close.
Watching lads run past the man with the ball to take up defensive positions and then to watch a load of lateral handpasses outside the 45 does not make a game interesting.

Two things need to be encouraged;

As to how that is achieved I don't know, but I find it frustrating that the majority of intercounty footballers aren't confident enough to shoot from 40 yards out and are more inclined to take the ultra safe option of a sidewise pass.

Stats and percentages have a lot to answer for.

Ironically enough I think in hurling it's too easy to score now.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: APM on August 14, 2018, 03:02:26 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44850888 

Maybe we don't need supporters if we follow the Sky model.   :'(
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Christmas Lights on August 14, 2018, 05:41:17 PM
I don't think that too many people would disagree that the game has turned into too much of a possession based game with very limited contested possession outside of the attacking teams 45 metre line. Then you have the blight of the handpass, the backwards pass and the often pointless retention of possession. We need more contested duels in the game where there is an opportunity to turn possession over.

1) Restrict the handpass to 3/4 consecutive.
2) Ban the backwards pass inside your own half
3) All kick outs must be kicked past the 45 metre line (there was a token attempt to increase this 7 metres in the last year but nothing much has changed).

This will all lead to more duels for possession, more physical contests, more kick passing and more engagement for supporters.

There are other more technical/refereeing issues that need addressing such as a time clock and a review of the black card but fix the above and it would help the game dramatically.

 

everyone of those suggestions are pure shite tbf.  Would make the game a farce.  A hybird of basketball and netball FFS
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jayop on August 14, 2018, 06:48:47 PM
The only rules changes I would possibly advocate now are...

1) Remove the black card. It's a farce, and has only legitimized cynical play. Replace this with a 21 yard free and a 10 minute sin bin. I'd include cynical and dangerous play in this because the tackles around the neck are going to hurt someone badly if they're not stamped out.

2) Introduce a timing system ala rugby/ladies football where the clock is actually stopped for proper stoppages and if needs be 20 seconds can be added on for each sub. Once the 70 is up you hear a hooter and the next time the ball goes dead (unless for a free/pen) it's game over.

3) This is the controversial one. If you want teams to kick the ball in you have to reward it. At the moment it's too risky and more often than not you just lose possession. I like the idea of if you kick the ball from outside the 45 to inside the 21 then you can take a mark. That mightn't be popular but I think the mark was a huge success so far and didn't disrupt the game like I thought it would. The kick would have to be taken quickly by the guy who caught it or if he wanted he can just play on.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: BennyCake on August 14, 2018, 06:54:54 PM
11 a side is the only answer.

Close the thread.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: From the Bunker on August 14, 2018, 10:28:45 PM
11 a side is the only answer.

Close the thread.

It'd be gas looking at O'Callaghan, Kilkenny and 2 hops McManaman taking their 8 steps with oceans of space in that scenario.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: markl121 on August 14, 2018, 10:37:33 PM


3) This is the controversial one. If you want teams to kick the ball in you have to reward it. At the moment it's too risky and more often than not you just lose possession. I like the idea of if you kick the ball from outside the 45 to inside the 21 then you can take a mark. That mightn't be popular but I think the mark was a huge success so far and didn't disrupt the game like I thought it would. The kick would have to be taken quickly by the guy who caught it or if he wanted he can just play on.
I feel like this would make the game even more similar to  aussie rules, which I don’t find enjoyable to watch at all. It would probably totally disrupt the flow of play and you would find teams constructing plays to find a free man down the field almost like an American football quarter back trying to find the free man. We could have a game which is an amalgamation of a 3-4 sports none of which are the fast paced game we know and love.
I do think that making kick outs go over the 45 May be an option and would also help bring back some of the high ball playing midfielders. Also maybe make the full forwards remain inside the opposition 21 or 45?
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: redzone on August 14, 2018, 10:39:27 PM
I don't think that too many people would disagree that the game has turned into too much of a possession based game with very limited contested possession outside of the attacking teams 45 metre line. Then you have the blight of the handpass, the backwards pass and the often pointless retention of possession. We need more contested duels in the game where there is an opportunity to turn possession over.

1) Restrict the handpass to 3/4 consecutive.
2) Ban the backwards pass inside your own half
3) All kick outs must be kicked past the 45 metre line (there was a token attempt to increase this 7 metres in the last year but nothing much has changed).

This will all lead to more duels for possession, more physical contests, more kick passing and more engagement for supporters.

There are other more technical/refereeing issues that need addressing such as a time clock and a review of the black card but fix the above and it would help the game dramatically.

 

everyone of those suggestions are pure shite tbf.  Would make the game a farce.  A hybird of basketball and netball FFS
In fairness .3 is worth trying
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: BennyCake on August 14, 2018, 10:45:35 PM
2 points for a point scored outside the '50 would be worth a try.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jayop on August 14, 2018, 10:45:41 PM


3) This is the controversial one. If you want teams to kick the ball in you have to reward it. At the moment it's too risky and more often than not you just lose possession. I like the idea of if you kick the ball from outside the 45 to inside the 21 then you can take a mark. That mightn't be popular but I think the mark was a huge success so far and didn't disrupt the game like I thought it would. The kick would have to be taken quickly by the guy who caught it or if he wanted he can just play on.
I feel like this would make the game even more similar to  aussie rules, which I don’t find enjoyable to watch at all. It would probably totally disrupt the flow of play and you would find teams constructing plays to find a free man down the field almost like an American football quarter back trying to find the free man. We could have a game which is an amalgamation of a 3-4 sports none of which are the fast paced game we know and love.
I do think that making kick outs go over the 45 May be an option and would also help bring back some of the high ball playing midfielders. Also maybe make the full forwards remain inside the opposition 21 or 45?

What's wrong with teams trying to work a free man inside the 21?? Surely that would be an honourable aspiration.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Throw ball on August 14, 2018, 11:02:24 PM
The only rules changes I would possibly advocate now are...

1) Remove the black card. It's a farce, and has only legitimized cynical play. Replace this with a 21 yard free and a 10 minute sin bin. I'd include cynical and dangerous play in this because the tackles around the neck are going to hurt someone badly if they're not stamped out.

2) Introduce a timing system ala rugby/ladies football where the clock is actually stopped for proper stoppages and if needs be 20 seconds can be added on for each sub. Once the 70 is up you hear a hooter and the next time the ball goes dead (unless for a free/pen) it's game over.

3) This is the controversial one. If you want teams to kick the ball in you have to reward it. At the moment it's too risky and more often than not you just lose possession. I like the idea of if you kick the ball from outside the 45 to inside the 21 then you can take a mark. That mightn't be popular but I think the mark was a huge success so far and didn't disrupt the game like I thought it would. The kick would have to be taken quickly by the guy who caught it or if he wanted he can just play on.

The problem I can see with the third option is that it may get defences deeper as they get in position to win the ball that will more often than not get broken. Maybe combine the mark you advocate with Bennycake's idea of 2 points for a point outside 45. Defences would have more things to cover and hopefully more space would be created.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jayop on August 14, 2018, 11:59:16 PM
The only rules changes I would possibly advocate now are...

1) Remove the black card. It's a farce, and has only legitimized cynical play. Replace this with a 21 yard free and a 10 minute sin bin. I'd include cynical and dangerous play in this because the tackles around the neck are going to hurt someone badly if they're not stamped out.

2) Introduce a timing system ala rugby/ladies football where the clock is actually stopped for proper stoppages and if needs be 20 seconds can be added on for each sub. Once the 70 is up you hear a hooter and the next time the ball goes dead (unless for a free/pen) it's game over.

3) This is the controversial one. If you want teams to kick the ball in you have to reward it. At the moment it's too risky and more often than not you just lose possession. I like the idea of if you kick the ball from outside the 45 to inside the 21 then you can take a mark. That mightn't be popular but I think the mark was a huge success so far and didn't disrupt the game like I thought it would. The kick would have to be taken quickly by the guy who caught it or if he wanted he can just play on.

The problem I can see with the third option is that it may get defences deeper as they get in position to win the ball that will more often than not get broken. Maybe combine the mark you advocate with Bennycake's idea of 2 points for a point outside 45. Defences would have more things to cover and hopefully more space would be created.

Could defenses be much deeper than a lot of them are already? Bring back the 6 foot 6 full forward I say and lump the f**king thing into him.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Stall the Bailer on August 15, 2018, 09:11:10 AM
I know the title of the thread is Gaelic Football RIP and a lot of posters are commenting about losing their love of the game.
Reading through a lot of the posts it is all about the inter county game and it is all from the spectators viewpoint.

There is no doubt attendances are dropping at inter county level due to many reasons. I know for me it is the cost of attending games, along with other commitments is the reason that I can't attend as many games as I would like.
I don't see less attending club games. Is everyone talking about county level, because if you are the thread title is misleading and confusing the issue.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: From the Bunker on August 15, 2018, 09:19:12 AM
I know the title of the thread is Gaelic Football RIP and a lot of posters are commenting about losing their love of the game.
Reading through a lot of the posts it is all about the inter county game and it is all from the spectators viewpoint.

There is no doubt attendances are dropping at inter county level due to many reasons. I know for me it is the cost of attending games, along with other commitments is the reason that I can't attend as many games as I would like.
I don't see less attending club games. Is everyone talking about county level, because if you are the thread title is misleading and confusing the issue.

One sort of feeds the other. Intercounty football can inspire young lads/ladies to start playing the game. I know from Mayo's decent runs the last couple of years, I've seen Parents who were never interested in Football bring their kids to the local club.

Does coverage of the Champions League and Premiership make young lads want to play soccer for the local club?
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: APM on August 15, 2018, 10:26:16 AM
I know the title of the thread is Gaelic Football RIP and a lot of posters are commenting about losing their love of the game.
Reading through a lot of the posts it is all about the inter county game and it is all from the spectators viewpoint.

There is no doubt attendances are dropping at inter county level due to many reasons. I know for me it is the cost of attending games, along with other commitments is the reason that I can't attend as many games as I would like.
I don't see less attending club games. Is everyone talking about county level, because if you are the thread title is misleading and confusing the issue.

One sort of feeds the other. Intercounty football can inspire young lads/ladies to start playing the game. I know from Mayo's decent runs the last couple of years, I've seen Parents who were never interested in Football bring their kids to the local club.

Does coverage of the Champions League and Premiership make young lads want to play soccer for the local club?

Exactly,
County Football is the shop window and instead of the best of fine fruit and veg, we have a through-other mess of bluemoulded crap on display. 

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2018/0813/984824-the-awkward-irony-of-gaas-attendance-problem/

There is a very serious conversation starting to happen out there and Croke Park have to realise that there are two broad problems:

If they try to solve one without solving the other, it won't help matters. 

My worry is that they try to solve uncompetitive games with a tiered championship.  Firstly, it won't stop the uncompetitive games, as Dublin are so far ahead of everyone else. It's like Cycling when Lance Armstrong or Miguel Indurain just rode every one off their wheel.  The counties in the lower tiers will lose interest and as you said above, they'll also lose hope.  Who wants to watch the first round of the Tommy Murphy Cup? We found that out a few years ago - no-one!

Secondly, if there are more competitive games and the style of football still resembles a soccer match, with no atmosphere, then we still have a problem. 


Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Stall the Bailer on August 15, 2018, 10:32:58 AM
There is no doubt there is a feel good factor within a county when the their county team is going well (Monaghan would be a good example currently). Especially during the early years of the success (I'm guessing there is not same buzz in Dublin as a few years ago) The same is true when your local club is going well. I'd say it would have even a larger impact locally at inspiring our youth.
There is a lot of people who just like to complain, I have met a few Tyrone supporters locally who's first reaction to the last two games was to give out, instead of enjoying our victories and being in the final. Saying Gaelic football is dead, makes little sense to me. It still a great game to play and watch.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: High Fielder on August 15, 2018, 10:48:46 AM
Inter County football as a concept is flawed. People won't commit to a race they can't win. The All Ireland Championship is great for those who take turns to win it, but for everyone else it has lost its appeal. Larger counties have far too many advantages and it takes a golden crop every 20 or 30 years for anyone else to get a sniff. In some cases that never happens at all. If it's not competitive, there's a reason for that, but the GAA don't want to own what is blatantly obvious. It's far better to sit idly by and pray the first few months of the Championship fade to memory so we can get to the proper stuff, the Super 8's.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: APM on August 15, 2018, 10:52:56 AM
There is no doubt there is a feel good factor within a county when the their county team is going well (Monaghan would be a good example currently). Especially during the early years of the success (I'm guessing there is not same buzz in Dublin as a few years ago) The same is true when your local club is going well. I'd say it would have even a larger impact locally at inspiring our youth.
There is a lot of people who just like to complain, I have met a few Tyrone supporters locally who's first reaction to the last two games was to give out, instead of enjoying our victories and being in the final. Saying Gaelic football is dead, makes little sense to me. It still a great game to play and watch.

I know the title of the thread is Gaelic Football RIP and a lot of posters are commenting about losing their love of the game.
Reading through a lot of the posts it is all about the inter county game and it is all from the spectators viewpoint.

There is no doubt attendances are dropping at inter county level due to many reasons. I know for me it is the cost of attending games, along with other commitments is the reason that I can't attend as many games as I would like.
I don't see less attending club games. Is everyone talking about county level, because if you are the thread title is misleading and confusing the issue.


Ticket prices are an issue, but they have been high before - never before have they offered such poor value for money. 

You're a Tyrone man - your team is in the final - You are going to have a different perspective.  Try to look at it from the perspective of a neutral. Look at it from the perspective of how much you enjoy Tyrone matches now, compared to 10 years ago when football was less cautious. 
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jinxy on August 15, 2018, 11:02:45 AM
In addition to the 45m kick-out rule, everyone except the 4 'midfielders' (a midfielder can be anyone) must be inside the 45m lines.
So, the goalkeeper + 6 forwards + 6 backs all have to stay goal-side of the 45m line UNTIL the ball is kicked.
Easy to implement, easy to enforce.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: APM on August 15, 2018, 11:08:57 AM
In addition to the 45m kick-out rule, everyone except the 4 'midfielders' (a midfielder can be anyone) must be inside the 45m lines.
So, the goalkeeper + 6 forwards + 6 backs all have to stay goal-side of the 45m line UNTIL the ball is kicked.
Easy to implement, easy to enforce.

I think that would work. Any downsides? If not Jinxy, get it written up and submitted to congress before Mickey Harte gets his hands on it,
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: hardstation on August 15, 2018, 11:11:43 AM
I really don’t see why midfield needs to be so important. Why so much emphasis on channeling the game towards them?
What if we’ve a shite midfield but the best half forward line in the country? Tough?
I can’t see how it makes the game any better as a spectacle either.
Let teams play to their own strengths instead of dictating what they must do.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Rossfan on August 15, 2018, 11:16:31 AM
Inter County football as a concept is flawed. People won't commit to a race they can't win. The All Ireland Championship is great for those who take turns to win it, but for everyone else it has lost its appeal. Larger counties have far too many advantages and it takes a golden crop every 20 or 30 years for anyone else to get a sniff. In some cases that never happens at all. If it's not competitive, there's a reason for that, but the GAA don't want to own what is blatantly obvious. It's far better to sit idly by and pray the first few months of the Championship fade to memory so we can get to the proper stuff, the Super 8's.
36 years since a small County won or reached an AI Final.
That was the remarkable County of Offaly who in a 26 year period won 3 football and 4 Hurling AIs .
6 football Counties have never reached an AI Final.
Of the small Counties who did reach Finals it's 38 years for Ros, 66 for Cavan, 82 I think for Laois and was it 88 Monaghan.

So what do we do if we accept the County model is flawed?
And it obviously is due to population differences which are going to be exacerbated in the next 20 years.
You'll have 1.5m in Dublin while Kildare,  Meath, Wicklow at least 800k.
Meanwhile 11 small BMW Counties  will have about 650k.
Will anyone want to move away from the County model as it's fairly ingrained at this stage?
However shorter term we need to fix our "product" to at least make the game attractive to neutrals again.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jinxy on August 15, 2018, 11:17:37 AM
I really don’t see why midfield needs to be so important. Why so much emphasis on channeling the game towards them?
What if we’ve a shite midfield but the best half forward line in the country? Tough?
I can’t see how it makes the game any better as a spectacle either.
Let teams play to their own strengths instead of dictating what they must do.

How's that working out for us?
Anyway, it's not so much about prioritising midfield as it is about reintroducing the concept of people having to fight for the ball.
If you like seeing the ball kicked to the corner back for him to jog up to the HB line and give a short handpass to a wing back to jog up to the etc. etc., I think you'd be in the minority.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: trailer on August 15, 2018, 11:19:07 AM
The time it would take to reset into 6-2-6 for every kickout would waste a lot of time. You're a point down heading into injury time. The opposition has the kickout, the half forward who tracked his man back now takes an age to walk up to his position. This is another idea that will not work.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: hardstation on August 15, 2018, 11:20:00 AM
I really don’t see why midfield needs to be so important. Why so much emphasis on channeling the game towards them?
What if we’ve a shite midfield but the best half forward line in the country? Tough?
I can’t see how it makes the game any better as a spectacle either.
Let teams play to their own strengths instead of dictating what they must do.

How's that working out for us?
Better than teams with a weak midfield being made to kick the ball out to the best midfield in Ireland, like buns to a fcukin bear I’d imagine.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: westbound on August 15, 2018, 11:22:01 AM
In addition to the 45m kick-out rule, everyone except the 4 'midfielders' (a midfielder can be anyone) must be inside the 45m lines.
So, the goalkeeper + 6 forwards + 6 backs all have to stay goal-side of the 45m line UNTIL the ball is kicked.
Easy to implement, easy to enforce.

I think that would work. Any downsides? If not Jinxy, get it written up and submitted to congress before Mickey Harte gets his hands on it,

What happens if the goalkeeper wants to take a quick kick out and all his team are correctly lined up but the opposition are not (either deliberately or accidentally).
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jinxy on August 15, 2018, 11:25:07 AM
God forbid we would lose the quick kick-out.
The clock wouldn't restart until the ball was kicked, so you wouldn't lose any time.
Look, all I want is to see people having to WIN the ball from a kick-out.
That requires skill & effort.
Compare this with a keeper dinking the ball to his corner-back.
Give people something to cheer ffs.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: hardstation on August 15, 2018, 11:26:55 AM
There are many skills in the game. Your suggestion gives one skill far too much influence in the game. Ffs, you could have teams never winning a kick out.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Rossfan on August 15, 2018, 11:29:02 AM
Abolish hand throwing,  solo running?. Allow the man to be tackled?
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jinxy on August 15, 2018, 11:31:09 AM
Nope.
Remember, once the ball is kicked all bets are off.
So unless you have an utterly dominant fielder, the breaking ball is up for grabs.
Anyway, what's wrong with trying to emphasise a skill that gets people up out of their seats in appreciation?
Why was the mark introduced?
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: hardstation on August 15, 2018, 11:35:35 AM
Nope.
Remember, once the ball is kicked all bets are off.
So unless you have an utterly dominant fielder, the breaking ball is up for grabs.
Anyway, what's wrong with trying to emphasise a skill that gets people up out of their seats in appreciation?
Why was the mark introduced?
The mark is enough emphasis on that one skill thanks.
Teams should be allowed to try something different if they are getting cleaned out.
Ridiculous that they should be made to play to the other team’s strengths.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jinxy on August 15, 2018, 11:38:11 AM
The time it would take to reset into 6-2-6 for every kickout would waste a lot of time. You're a point down heading into injury time. The opposition has the kickout, the half forward who tracked his man back now takes an age to walk up to his position. This is another idea that will not work.

His wing-back can drop in for him.
People would get the gist of it pretty quickly, it's not rocket science.
You have 6 people standing on the 20m line, i.e. FB & FF line and you have 6 people standing on the 45m line, i.e. HB & HF line.
Once the ball is kicked they are all free to charge into the midfield area if they want.
You can still go wherever you like on the field for the restart as long as the numbers add up.
So if you had a Donaghy figure playing FF, you can put him midfield for the kick-outs and move a midfielder somewhere else.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: High Fielder on August 15, 2018, 11:38:43 AM
Inter County football as a concept is flawed. People won't commit to a race they can't win. The All Ireland Championship is great for those who take turns to win it, but for everyone else it has lost its appeal. Larger counties have far too many advantages and it takes a golden crop every 20 or 30 years for anyone else to get a sniff. In some cases that never happens at all. If it's not competitive, there's a reason for that, but the GAA don't want to own what is blatantly obvious. It's far better to sit idly by and pray the first few months of the Championship fade to memory so we can get to the proper stuff, the Super 8's.
36 years since a small County won or reached an AI Final.
That was the remarkable County of Offaly who in a 26 year period won 3 football and 4 Hurling AIs .
6 football Counties have never reached an AI Final.
Of the small Counties who did reach Finals it's 38 years for Ros, 66 for Cavan, 82 I think for Laois and was it 88 Monaghan.

So what do we do if we accept the County model is flawed?
And it obviously is due to population differences which are going to be exacerbated in the next 20 years.
You'll have 1.5m in Dublin while Kildare,  Meath, Wicklow at least 800k.
Meanwhile 11 small BMW Counties  will have about 650k.
Will anyone want to move away from the County model as it's fairly ingrained at this stage?
However shorter term we need to fix our "product" to at least make the game attractive to neutrals again.

For the reasons you outlined, and many more, most notably semi professionalism, it is easy to see why competitiveness is suffering. I am of the opinion that some matches have no business being played, such is the chasm between the teams. They are not even of novelty value. Bookmakers give more of a chance to a League 2 side beating Manchester City than Carlow/Offaly/Laois/Longofrd/Wicklow etc beating Dublin. A pointless exercise slavishly following county boundaries which probably only have land mass in common. It won't change because it can't, not unless there is a professional intervention and some other model is adopted. Let's be honest here, Dublin are a professional outfit in all but name. And good luck to them. They are taking the opportunity to make themselves better in a time and place that lends itself to that. They are giving themselves every opportunity to be competitive year after year without having to wait for a golden crop. Success by numbers. How do small counties even begin to compete with that?
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jinxy on August 15, 2018, 11:43:07 AM
Nope.
Remember, once the ball is kicked all bets are off.
So unless you have an utterly dominant fielder, the breaking ball is up for grabs.
Anyway, what's wrong with trying to emphasise a skill that gets people up out of their seats in appreciation?
Why was the mark introduced?
The mark is enough emphasis on that one skill thanks.
Teams should be allowed to try something different if they are getting cleaned out.
Ridiculous that they should be made to play to the other team’s strengths.

Who are 'the other' team in this scenario.
If this rule was brought in for next season, what teams would dominate and what teams would suffer as a result?
All I see nowadays is a load of 6'1" and 6'2" lads playing midfield.
There are very few giants anymore.
Again, this isn't just about fielding, it's about making gameplay more dynamic and entertaining.
The concept of fairness to one team or another based on their lack of fielding ability is a bit of a first world problem.
People don't want to watch the games anymore.
That's the primary issue we're trying to address here.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: blewuporstuffed on August 15, 2018, 11:55:41 AM
Nope.
Remember, once the ball is kicked all bets are off.
So unless you have an utterly dominant fielder, the breaking ball is up for grabs.
Anyway, what's wrong with trying to emphasise a skill that gets people up out of their seats in appreciation?
Why was the mark introduced?
The mark is enough emphasis on that one skill thanks.
Teams should be allowed to try something different if they are getting cleaned out.
Ridiculous that they should be made to play to the other team’s strengths.

Who are 'the other' team in this scenario.
If this rule was brought in for next season, what teams would dominate and what teams would suffer as a result?
All I see nowadays is a load of 6'1" and 6'2" lads playing midfield.
There are very few giants anymore.
Again, this isn't just about fielding, it's about making gameplay more dynamic and entertaining.
The concept of fairness to one team or another based on their lack of fielding ability is a bit of a first world problem.
People don't want to watch the games anymore.
That's the primary issue we're trying to address here.
I think the game is slowly evolving away from the ultra short kickout to the corner back now anyway.
I dont think we need a rule change to sort that out.
Alot more kickouts are being ping out to half backs or midfielders on the run, or as we are now starting to see, kicked over the press altogether to the half forward line.
In the Tyrone v Monaghan game there we had maybe 4/5 examples of really good clean fielding from kickouts, did we ever really have many more than that anyway?
In the past [people used to lament that when the ball was kicked out and fielded , the player that caught it was swamped as soon as he hit the ground alot of the time.
That is no longer the case due to kickouts usually being hit into space and the mark.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: APM on August 15, 2018, 12:08:32 PM
This is just putting a rule in place to bring us back to slower restarts and kickouts to midfield. 

Refereeing it should be doable. The lines men and referee could ensure between them that the kickout isn't taken until just 4 players were between the 45, but tbf, the half backs and half forwards would be bursting to come into the midfield area before the kickout is taken. So the officials need to watch for players breaking the line with some sort of penalty for doing so.  That's probably the difficult part.

The half forwards and half backs would be pushed up tight on the 45, so you would still have them coming into compete for breaking ball.
Restarts would be more like a 50-50, so you would have no incentive to flood your own defence as you may find that you win possession without support up front.  For teams with a weaker midfield, kicking off the tee presents the option of kicking long into the space on the wings for a wing back or wing forward to run on to.  In fairness, Beggan has been dropping kickouts inside the oppositions 45. Both of these factors would encourage more man to man marking. 
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: blewuporstuffed on August 15, 2018, 12:17:58 PM
This is just putting a rule in place to bring us back to slower restarts and kickouts to midfield. 

Refereeing it should be doable. The lines men and referee could ensure between them that the kickout isn't taken until just 4 players were between the 45, but tbf, the half backs and half forwards would be bursting to come into the midfield area before the kickout is taken. So the officials need to watch for players breaking the line with some sort of penalty for doing so.  That's probably the difficult part.

The half forwards and half backs would be pushed up tight on the 45, so you would still have them coming into compete for breaking ball.
Restarts would be more like a 50-50, so you would have no incentive to flood your own defence as you may find that you win possession without support up front.  For teams with a weaker midfield, kicking off the tee presents the option of kicking long into the space on the wings for a wing back or wing forward to run on to.  In fairness, Beggan has been dropping kickouts inside the oppositions 45. Both of these factors would encourage more man to man marking.

Why do we want slower restarts?
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: yellowcard on August 15, 2018, 12:25:03 PM
There is definitely merit in this suggestion surrounding the kickouts.

As with all of these things though, the GAA is very much a reactionary rather than a proactive organisation so you are probably looking at a minimum 18 month timescale before anything is done to address these growing concerns about the state of gaelic football.

Or worse still they will just meander on and do nothing because a few county managers are up in arms at the thought of having to figure out a new gameplan since their current one aimed at stifling opponents might become redundant.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: APM on August 15, 2018, 12:28:10 PM
This is just putting a rule in place to bring us back to slower restarts and kickouts to midfield. 

Refereeing it should be doable. The lines men and referee could ensure between them that the kickout isn't taken until just 4 players were between the 45, but tbf, the half backs and half forwards would be bursting to come into the midfield area before the kickout is taken. So the officials need to watch for players breaking the line with some sort of penalty for doing so.  That's probably the difficult part.

The half forwards and half backs would be pushed up tight on the 45, so you would still have them coming into compete for breaking ball.
Restarts would be more like a 50-50, so you would have no incentive to flood your own defence as you may find that you win possession without support up front.  For teams with a weaker midfield, kicking off the tee presents the option of kicking long into the space on the wings for a wing back or wing forward to run on to.  In fairness, Beggan has been dropping kickouts inside the oppositions 45. Both of these factors would encourage more man to man marking.

Why do we want slower restarts?

Nostalgia, obviously  ;D

I like the fast restarts in much the same way as I wouldn't want to go back to all frees being taken from the ground.  However, I do think preventing the quick kickout levels the playing field against the semi-professional approach.  Teams like Dublin get a big advantage I feel in the fourth quarter of games with ultra-fast restarts.  Teams with even slightly lower levels of fitness will struggle to get back into position.  However, I do see it both ways, as getting ready for a kickout is often as much to do with discipline and organisation as fitness.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jinxy on August 15, 2018, 12:29:55 PM
I'd quite happily swap faster restarts for a faster game.
Take the example of a short kick-out to a defender who makes his way up the field.
By the time the ball reaches the opposition 45m line the bulk of the players from both teams are now in that area.
With the kick-out rule I suggested, the ball is effectively bypassing 12 players.
If you win a clean ball at midfield and lay it off, or even just break it to one of your HB line coming through, you can actually run straight and hard at the opposition defence.
If you take the mark, you have loads of options.
You could also have the opposition HB line running back to provide cover for their FB line, which would create space for your HB line coming through.
If the opposition HB line feel they need to stay in place to prevent this, then that means more space for your FF line.
Modern teams understandably want to play a percentage game.
You have possession, you keep possession.
That is their prerogative.
It's the sensible and scientific thing to do but it's also incredibly boring to watch.
Restarts are the area where we can rebalance this somewhat.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: hardstation on August 15, 2018, 12:31:18 PM
I assume this is just for the county game where there are linesmen to help police it.
I don’t think a referee could police it on his own. How could he ensure that nobody encroaches both 45 lines before the ball is kicked?
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Franko on August 15, 2018, 12:33:28 PM
The problem as I see it is that it is too difficult to dispossess an opponent who is carrying the ball without giving away a free.  Hence, when keep-ball is key, people prefer to carry the ball and pass short.

So, as an initial (and very tentative) step towards making the game more palatable for spectators, I’d tell referees to focus on 2 things;

1.   Properly enforce the overcarrying rule
2.   Stop blowing frees for every bit of incidental contact.  Ref it like hurling.  After a while players and fans will stop moaning and realise that they don’t get a free every time they lie down on their arse.

The result would hopefully be that it is less easy for teams to play keep-ball and more enticing to go for the yardage option.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jinxy on August 15, 2018, 12:33:42 PM
Yep, county level only and ideally with a ref in each half.
Plonk a linesman on each 45m line, and give him one job, and one job only, when a kick-out is being taken.
Nobody crosses this line until the ball is kicked.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: yellowcard on August 15, 2018, 12:34:03 PM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2015/0713/714501-mick-oconnell/

Good article from a few years ago with the great Mick O'Connell and his thought's on the game.

What has changed in the intervening years? Nothing, I would say. The mark has been a limited success but the game is more and more about running, possession and athletic ability.

So I expect that we will just linger on as the spectacle deteriorates further still. It's the GAA way, no foresight. Only when it reaches crisis point will something be done.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jinxy on August 15, 2018, 12:37:23 PM
To be honest, I'd settle for kick-outs just having to cross the 45m line at this stage.
With no restrictions on where anyone goes on the field.
I just can't stand watching teams jog up the field unopposed as the opposition funnels numbers back inside their 45m line.
Lash it out to midfield and let everybody fight it out.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: hardstation on August 15, 2018, 12:39:27 PM
Yep, county level only and ideally with a ref in each half.
Plonk a linesman on each 45m line, and give him one job, and one job only, when a kick-out is being taken.
Nobody crosses this line until the ball is kicked.
I don’t think we should have rules that totally change the game for county football only.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jinxy on August 15, 2018, 12:45:48 PM
If the rule change was simply to require all kick-outs at county level to cross the 45m line, would you still have an issue with that, HS?
It doesn't fundamentally change the game vs. club level, as you're basically just making the keeper's mind up for him.
"Sometimes you go long, sometimes you go short? Well from now on you go long all the time."
I'd introduce the same rule at club level only a lot of keepers wouldn't be able to clear the 45m line.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: hardstation on August 15, 2018, 12:51:25 PM
I really don’t think it will have the positive impact on the game as a spectacle as you think it will.
Being honest, the short kick out doesn’t bother me at all.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jinxy on August 15, 2018, 12:53:32 PM
Is there anything you think we could do to improve the game as a spectacle?
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 15, 2018, 12:54:44 PM
Jesus lad leave it well alone, no matter what sort of rule change you make it will be analysed and dissected by the managers and tacticians and something will be put in place to gain an advantage..

Football is an evolving game, unlike hurling which in its truest form is 15 on 15 going at it once they cross the line… not too many teams that use the sweeper systems or 3 in midfield or any other tactic come away with the top prize
A team comes through every so often and Dublin is that team at the minute, the hat has to just come off and celebrate a decent side that is able to adopt and bring in young players to a system of play and keep it ticking over..
Counties should be looking at themselves and get their own house in order and improve their own before looking at changes which ‘might’ help them against Dublin
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: High Fielder on August 15, 2018, 12:57:25 PM
Jesus lad leave it well alone, no matter what sort of rule change you make it will be analysed and dissected by the managers and tacticians and something will be put in place to gain an advantage..

Football is an evolving game, unlike hurling which in its truest form is 15 on 15 going at it once they cross the line… not too many teams that use the sweeper systems or 3 in midfield or any other tactic come away with the top prize
A team comes through every so often and Dublin is that team at the minute, the hat has to just come off and celebrate a decent side that is able to adopt and bring in young players to a system of play and keep it ticking over..
Counties should be looking at themselves and get their own house in order and improve their own before looking at changes which ‘might’ help them against Dublin

So every county should go semi professional?
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: hardstation on August 15, 2018, 01:00:48 PM
Is there anything you think we could do to improve the game as a spectacle?
No. That depends solely on players & management.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jinxy on August 15, 2018, 01:14:43 PM
Are you worried that people will lose interest in the game or do you think this is just a cycle we're going through?
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: blewuporstuffed on August 15, 2018, 01:21:09 PM
The problem as I see it is that it is too difficult to dispossess an opponent who is carrying the ball without giving away a free.  Hence, when keep-ball is key, people prefer to carry the ball and pass short.

So, as an initial (and very tentative) step towards making the game more palatable for spectators, I’d tell referees to focus on 2 things;

1.   Properly enforce the overcarrying rule
2.   Stop blowing frees for every bit of incidental contact.  Ref it like hurling.  After a while players and fans will stop moaning and realise that they don’t get a free every time they lie down on their arse.

The result would hopefully be that it is less easy for teams to play keep-ball and more enticing to go for the yardage option.
I agree with you there.
Its those sorts of subtle tweaks to the game that are more likely to improve the game than drastic rule changes
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Hound on August 15, 2018, 01:22:26 PM
People tend to focus on the negatives it seems.

Last year Dublin and Mayo played in a fantastic All Ireland Final. In fact, barring the odd exception mainly due to bad weather, all championship games involving Kerry, Mayo and Dublin have been crackers. 

The likes of Kildare, Meath, Roscommon, Laois, Armagh have been involved in really good games over the last couple of years. Donegal's style improved markedly this year, at least until the business end and maybe that was to do with losing McBrearty. That one high profile 10 minutes where they refused to come out and Dublin refused to give them the ball has got more attention than any of the good games this year.

The Omagh game between Dubs and Tyrone was more than decent this year, and I've feeling the final will be better again as Tyrone will know that all out defence will not cut it if they want Celtic Crosses.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: BennyCake on August 15, 2018, 01:51:11 PM
Forget kickouts going past the 50, 6-2-6 formations etc. Seriously, 11 a side is the only answer.

The pitch is too small for 15 and players cover ground quickly. The game is too crowded and defensive. Just think of the up sides to 11 a side:

- nippy forwards will thrive
- bulked up players not as effective. Fit and lean players prioritised
- more kick passing as more chance of reaching a free man
- more room for kickouts
- blanket defence not as effective. Players will have to learn to tackle again and go man to man
- more scores as forwards have more room and teams will commit to attack
- less sideways and backwards play
- less fist passing

This will all come from one simple chance. Officials have enough to do without looking to see if 6-2-6 formations are in place or the ball crosses the 50. One change, less players.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: tippabu on August 15, 2018, 01:59:40 PM
Forget kickouts going past the 50, 6-2-6 formations etc. Seriously, 11 a side is the only answer.

The pitch is too small for 15 and players cover ground quickly. The game is too crowded and defensive. Just think of the up sides to 11 a side:

- nippy forwards will thrive
- bulked up players not as effective. Fit and lean players prioritised
- more kick passing as more chance of reaching a free man
- more room for kickouts
- blanket defence not as effective. Players will have to learn to tackle again and go man to man
- more scores as forwards have more room and teams will commit to attack
- less sideways and backwards play
- less fist passing

This will all come from one simple chance. Officials have enough to do without looking to see if 6-2-6 formations are in place or the ball crosses the 50. One change, less players.

I wouldn't go as far as 11 a side but the only sensible things I have heard possibly trialling have been 13 a side, especially at club level and being allowed pick the ball off the ground have been the two most reasonable I've heard
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jinxy on August 15, 2018, 02:01:05 PM
13-a-side would make life easier for a lot of rural clubs too.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Rossfan on August 15, 2018, 02:08:41 PM
Why on earth allow a pick off the ground?
If it's because people can't do  the lift properly  sure allow clear throwing of the ball and bring back throw goals.
But one thing for sure is most football games are now horrible spectacles.  Partisan fans will go to see their own teams but neutrals have given up ( except for the ticketed Brigade at AIFs)
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 15, 2018, 02:11:10 PM
Jesus lad leave it well alone, no matter what sort of rule change you make it will be analysed and dissected by the managers and tacticians and something will be put in place to gain an advantage..

Football is an evolving game, unlike hurling which in its truest form is 15 on 15 going at it once they cross the line… not too many teams that use the sweeper systems or 3 in midfield or any other tactic come away with the top prize
A team comes through every so often and Dublin is that team at the minute, the hat has to just come off and celebrate a decent side that is able to adopt and bring in young players to a system of play and keep it ticking over..
Counties should be looking at themselves and get their own house in order and improve their own before looking at changes which ‘might’ help them against Dublin

So every county should go semi professional?

If they are what they say they are on their profiles, then they must have very good employers to be allowed to only work half a week

Cluxton, teacher
Fitzsimons – entrepreneur
McMahon - company executive
Daly – health safety advisor
Lowndes- teacher
Cooper – student (very old student)
O’Sullivan -Tax consultant
Small- bank official
McCaffrey – doctor
Macauley- teacher
Fenton – physio
McCarthy – Bank rep
Schutte- accountant
Costello – teacher
Rock- leisure centre worker
McMahon- owns a food company
O’Gara – company Rep
Andrews – stockbroker dealer?
Flynn- commercial director
Brogan- accountant
Mannion – Management consultant
Kilkenny - student
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Stall the Bailer on August 15, 2018, 02:21:59 PM
The biggest problem at club level I feel is the commitment needed. This also true at county level to an extent. 13 aside would mean you would need to be very fit. No hiding in the corners. This would have the knock on effect of the fittest and fastest players been able to take advantage of the extra space. To get fitter you would need more commitment and as you age and slow up, the harder it would be. Making even more a young person's game.   
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Gael85 on August 15, 2018, 02:51:40 PM
Jesus lad leave it well alone, no matter what sort of rule change you make it will be analysed and dissected by the managers and tacticians and something will be put in place to gain an advantage..

Football is an evolving game, unlike hurling which in its truest form is 15 on 15 going at it once they cross the line… not too many teams that use the sweeper systems or 3 in midfield or any other tactic come away with the top prize
A team comes through every so often and Dublin is that team at the minute, the hat has to just come off and celebrate a decent side that is able to adopt and bring in young players to a system of play and keep it ticking over..
Counties should be looking at themselves and get their own house in order and improve their own before looking at changes which ‘might’ help them against Dublin

So every county should go semi professional?

If they are what they say they are on their profiles, then they must have very good employers to be allowed to only work half a week

Cluxton, teacher
Fitzsimons – entrepreneur
McMahon - company executive
Daly – health safety advisor
Lowndes- teacher
Cooper – student (very old student)
O’Sullivan -Tax consultant
Small- bank official
McCaffrey – doctor
Macauley- teacher
Fenton – physio
McCarthy – Bank rep
Schutte- accountant
Costello – teacher
Rock- leisure centre worker
McMahon- owns a food company
O’Gara – company Rep
Andrews – stockbroker dealer?
Flynn- commercial director
Brogan- accountant
Mannion – Management consultant
Kilkenny - student

Kilkenny is teacher.
Cooper work in admin role in DCU
Fitzsimons is a physio though think we went back to college to study science
McManamon-owns his own business

Bar students all Dublin players work full time. All based in Dublin.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: High Fielder on August 15, 2018, 02:58:37 PM
"work". come on lads. I think it's well enough known that they have soft enough jobs. Certainly in a much better position than lads elsewhere. It's not a criticism by the way, but along with the free Subaru and other enticements, they're in a good place
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: From the Bunker on August 15, 2018, 03:01:24 PM
The GAA no longer put a players occupation in Programs, A lot of this has to do with many players having makey-up jobs. Anyway for ''Amateur'' players it a bit of invasion of privacy.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Gael85 on August 15, 2018, 03:08:20 PM
"work". come on lads. I think it's well enough known that they have soft enough jobs. Certainly in a much better position than lads elsewhere. It's not a criticism by the way, but along with the free Subaru and other enticements, they're in a good place

Is it now? Maybe for students might have a handy part time job but rest of the Dublin team work. There is quite a few teachers so they will have the summers off.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: High Fielder on August 15, 2018, 03:19:17 PM
As I said, it's not a criticism, but football is the main thing in their life. The jobs they do facilitate that and good luck to them. They are semi professional and in some cases fully professional. That's a massive advantage
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Gael85 on August 15, 2018, 03:23:47 PM
As I said, it's not a criticism, but football is the main thing in their life. The jobs they do facilitate that and good luck to them. They are semi professional and in some cases fully professional. That's a massive advantage

That just a myth. That not going to pay the bills. Obviously employers will facilitate players around match days but same goes any intercounty player from the top teams. Dublin have advantages in that all players work and live in Dublin which easier for training schedules.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Rossfan on August 15, 2018, 03:30:04 PM
Having a free car makes paying other bills easier😉.
Also helps not being traipsed across country  cramped in a bus 2 or 3 times a week for training.
AIG v Bush Hotel or Glennon Bros.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: High Fielder on August 15, 2018, 03:30:35 PM
So the free car is a myth? The advertising and sponsorship is a myth? Come on. If Lee Chin can go semi pro in Wexford, I'd imagine the Dublin lads are well able to do so
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Gael85 on August 15, 2018, 03:42:06 PM
So the free car is a myth? The advertising and sponsorship is a myth? Come on. If Lee Chin can go semi pro in Wexford, I'd imagine the Dublin lads are well able to do so

The cars is not a myth. I don't know what that to do with players employment though? Lee Chin,Kieran Donaghy,Darran O'Sullivan,Eamon O'Hara and Karl Lacey have given jobs at different stages job but that viable for a year or two. That nothing to do with Dublin. Dublin players are all based     in their own county so why would they need to give up their job?
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Gael85 on August 15, 2018, 03:44:35 PM
Having a free car makes paying other bills easier😉.
Also helps not being traipsed across country  cramped in a bus 2 or 3 times a week for training.
AIG v Bush Hotel or Glennon Bros.

That what I'm saying all Dublin players are based in capital so don't have travel commitments so dont see why they be giving up jobs.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: TheGreatest on August 15, 2018, 03:49:22 PM
Wasting your time Gael. Just laugh at them.

According to some. Dublin players should not be allowed live and work in Dublin. They should all be labourers or Farmers.

I believe Lee Chin is a full time player (athlete). A couple of the Mayo lads did it also.

Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: kerryforsam2018 on August 15, 2018, 03:56:18 PM
Didnt all the Dublin team get 3 weeks off before the All Ireland Final last year? How can you compete with that?
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: TheGreatest on August 15, 2018, 03:59:18 PM
Didnt all the Dublin team get 3 weeks off before the All Ireland Final last year? How can you compete with that?

yeah, and spent that 3 weeks in PED oxygen chambers while hooked up to steroids and washed in 500 Euro notes.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: kerryforsam2018 on August 15, 2018, 04:00:30 PM
how can rest compete with that?
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: shark on August 15, 2018, 04:01:25 PM
Didnt all the Dublin team get 3 weeks off before the All Ireland Final last year? How can you compete with that?

You don't have to compete with fairytales. How naive are you?
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: kerryforsam2018 on August 15, 2018, 04:03:06 PM
It this well known. My husband heard from a good source.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: From the Bunker on August 15, 2018, 04:34:50 PM
Don't mind them lads next they'll be telling us they never get to play at home in Parnell Park!  ;)

They'll soon have it all to themselves (if they don't already)!
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: larryin89 on August 15, 2018, 05:31:00 PM
Didnt all the Dublin team get 3 weeks off before the All Ireland Final last year? How can you compete with that?

yeah, and spent that 3 weeks in PED oxygen chambers while hooked up to steroids and washed in 500 Euro notes.

So after the semi final replay in 2015 , the Dublin players just went back to their day to day lives for the week , no sir that is indeed bulshit but the Mayo players did so.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: tippabu on August 15, 2018, 05:52:17 PM
Why on earth allow a pick off the ground?
If it's because people can't do  the lift properly  sure allow clear throwing of the ball and bring back throw goals.
But one thing for sure is most football games are now horrible spectacles.  Partisan fans will go to see their own teams but neutrals have given up ( except for the ticketed Brigade at AIFs)

Its nothing im saying needs to change but i wouldnt be against a pick up instead if it came in, apart from when players knick it up on the run without bending their back theres not a whole lot of skill to it....the reason i think some positives could come from it is it would speed things up a bit and by far the biggest reason is theres plenty of times a ref interperites from a fair distance away if a ball which is bouncing/skiding off the ground is picked up and a free is given, sometimes rightly, sometimes wrongly....that would be the main reason i wouldnt be bothered to see it go. As i said im not championing it but of everything that keeps popping up ive yet to see a whole lot of suggestions that would improve the game in anyway more than something as simple and small as this. Handpassing being the biggest thing thats constantly coming up and i think limiting that would destroy the game
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 15, 2018, 06:28:39 PM
As I said, it's not a criticism, but football is the main thing in their life. The jobs they do facilitate that and good luck to them. They are semi professional and in some cases fully professional. That's a massive advantage

You’re full of it today! I’ve put up their, supposed jobs and you are telling me that the county board or sponsors are covering all their wages and allowing time off ? So the doctors teachers accountants business owners and the rest are covered financially?

Never let the truth get in the way of a good yarn..

Mind you there will be the odd county player who’s landed a ‘job’ over the years, but they still have to work to produce a wage.. full time professional players train and play full time
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: High Fielder on August 15, 2018, 06:38:54 PM
As I said, it's not a criticism, but football is the main thing in their life. The jobs they do facilitate that and good luck to them. They are semi professional and in some cases fully professional. That's a massive advantage

You’re full of it today! I’ve put up their, supposed jobs and you are telling me that the county board or sponsors are covering all their wages and allowing time off ? So the doctors teachers accountants business owners and the rest are covered financially?

Never let the truth get in the way of a good yarn..

Mind you there will be the odd county player who’s landed a ‘job’ over the years, but they still have to work to produce a wage.. full time professional players train and play full time

And you know exactly what they do on a daily basis. If they had put down Fossets Circus, would you believe that too?
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 15, 2018, 09:36:46 PM
As I said, it's not a criticism, but football is the main thing in their life. The jobs they do facilitate that and good luck to them. They are semi professional and in some cases fully professional. That's a massive advantage

You’re full of it today! I’ve put up their, supposed jobs and you are telling me that the county board or sponsors are covering all their wages and allowing time off ? So the doctors teachers accountants business owners and the rest are covered financially?

Never let the truth get in the way of a good yarn..

Mind you there will be the odd county player who’s landed a ‘job’ over the years, but they still have to work to produce a wage.. full time professional players train and play full time

And you know exactly what they do on a daily basis. If they had put down Fossets Circus, would you believe that too?

Read my post properly, you’ll see that they have this in their profiles... so you’ve said they don’t have jobs full time as they are semi professional.. it’s up to you to prove it and stop talking rubbish
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: High Fielder on August 15, 2018, 10:45:57 PM
No you're right.I believe all those profiles to be a true and accurate reflection of what Dublin players do for a living. I can't believe I've been so naive. Thanks for correcting me
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 15, 2018, 11:41:29 PM
No you're right.I believe all those profiles to be a true and accurate reflection of what Dublin players do for a living. I can't believe I've been so naive. Thanks for correcting me

So you’re not going to prove otherwise? Hmm, outstanding
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: From the Bunker on August 16, 2018, 12:47:43 AM
Most top counties sort out their players. This cannot be denied? A decent Job, an education, whatever. Now most of these Dublin Lads are in jobs that are post-graduate. They are jobs where they are finding their way and not on big bucks yet! Hence there it is no big deal for the companies they work for to be flexible. There is scratch back stuff for the self employed lads. The rest are Mature Students, Very mature Students and Teachers. The reality is bar a few, many are building their future based on football and staying in football as long as possible helps. Naturally there are always exceptions. Not everyone is a round peg.

Now if you are from one of the lesser light counties, getting sorted is based a lot more on being Really, Really good. The opportunities to sort some one out are less.

All the Corporate headquarters are in Dublin. Most of the Corporate boxes are owned by Dublin Companies. Having a Dublin footballer on your Payroll holds a sort of esteem and can often raise the profile of the organisation.

Is this wrong?

Not that i can see!

This will become more and more prevalent, in time.

 
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 16, 2018, 07:28:52 AM
Most top counties sort out their players. This cannot be denied? A decent Job, an education, whatever. Now most of these Dublin Lads are in jobs that are post-graduate. They are jobs where they are finding their way and not on big bucks yet! Hence there it is no big deal for the companies they work for to be flexible. There is scratch back stuff for the self employed lads. The rest are Mature Students, Very mature Students and Teachers. The reality is bar a few, many are building their future based on football and staying in football as long as possible helps. Naturally there are always exceptions. Not everyone is a round peg.

Now if you are from one of the lesser light counties, getting sorted is based a lot more on being Really, Really good. The opportunities to sort some one out are less.

All the Corporate headquarters are in Dublin. Most of the Corporate boxes are owned by Dublin Companies. Having a Dublin footballer on your Payroll holds a sort of esteem and can often raise the profile of the organisation.

Is this wrong?

Not that i can see!

This will become more and more prevalent, in time.

They are not semi or full time professional players though. We’d lads up here, even in Antrim that were sorted out for jobs, but they worked!

There are a couple of doctors on the team, teachers accountants and business owners... they couldn’t be working 2.5 day weeks and being reimbursed by Dublin GAA!

There is far more money in Dublin I get that, there is far more people playing GAA, that’s always been the case, it’s just surprising that it’s taken this long for them to get their act together.

Did they change the rules to try and stop Cody’s domination of hurling? No, counties developed and improved, it seems the other counties just roll over when they come up against the dubs.. Mayo to their credit give it a lash
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Rossfan on August 16, 2018, 09:16:49 AM
Kilkenny hasn't 1.3m population.
I think hey've the smallest population of the 9 main hurling Counties.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Farrandeelin on August 16, 2018, 09:21:39 AM
Split Dublin in 2. Dublin and Jim Gavin. If Dublin continue to dominate Gaelic football after he goes, then the rest of us are doomed.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 16, 2018, 09:26:33 AM
Kilkenny hasn't 1.3m population.
I think hey've the smallest population of the 9 main hurling Counties.

And? So its just a numbers game? The county with the biggest numbers wins? Kerry have 37, 10 more than Dublin

Kilkenny won 11 from the year 2000

Dublin have won 5 in that same time period
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: BennyHarp on August 16, 2018, 09:30:23 AM
Split Dublin in 2. Dublin and Jim Gavin. If Dublin continue to dominate Gaelic football after he goes, then the rest of us are doomed.

They already have an identikit prototype mocked up in a lab in UCD ready to take his place. You’ll not even notice he’s gone.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: High Fielder on August 16, 2018, 09:38:16 AM
Kilkenny hasn't 1.3m population.
I think hey've the smallest population of the 9 main hurling Counties.

And? So its just a numbers game? The county with the biggest numbers wins? Kerry have 37, 10 more than Dublin

Kilkenny won 11 from the year 2000

Dublin have won 5 in that same time period

So why do your own county, or mine, Laois never win an All Ireland?
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 16, 2018, 10:16:38 AM
Kilkenny hasn't 1.3m population.
I think hey've the smallest population of the 9 main hurling Counties.

And? So its just a numbers game? The county with the biggest numbers wins? Kerry have 37, 10 more than Dublin

Kilkenny won 11 from the year 2000

Dublin have won 5 in that same time period

So why do your own county, or mine, Laois never win an All Ireland?

Because the players over the years are not committed enough to do anything about it.. Its a life style choice.. At club level I seen first hand what is required to win an All Ireland, times that by 10 to have a chance at county level.

This isnt a dig at current or past players of my county, its just been that way and to get out of it needs luck, coordination, investment (not just money) from coaches and county boards but mainly the players..

Players planning to go away to the States or Oz doesnt help either but hey, who can blame them.. The Dub Tyrone Donegal and Mayo lads (and the other super 8's) have a goal or a slim chance of eating at the top table, they stay..

The list goes on, but its not because they are not semi professional.. plenty teachers and students on the Antrim panels over the years, one could say they have more time to prepare over the summer months, but the reality is to win or compete for medals you have to do the leg work in the winter!
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: TheGreatest on August 16, 2018, 10:36:15 AM
Taken form another board.

Interesting stat from Colm keys in indo today.

Limerick around 2006 had only 8% of primary kids involved in playing GAA sports, after then starting 5 year plan, this jumped to 57% in 2011…now paying dividends.

"They were the only county in my nine years on CCC2 (Dublin) that were in contact with us to ask us what we were doing and to get some advice. On the contrary we had clubs from Meath, Wicklow and Kildare trying to enter our under age club competitions because their set ups were cat. Well done Limerick.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: From the Bunker on August 16, 2018, 10:40:02 AM
Kilkenny hasn't 1.3m population.
I think hey've the smallest population of the 9 main hurling Counties.

And? So its just a numbers game? The county with the biggest numbers wins? Kerry have 37, 10 more than Dublin

Kilkenny won 11 from the year 2000

Dublin have won 5 in that same time period

So why do your own county, or mine, Laois never win an All Ireland?

Because the players over the years are not committed enough to do anything about it.. Its a life style choice.. At club level I seen first hand what is required to win an All Ireland, times that by 10 to have a chance at county level.

This isnt a dig at current or past players of my county, its just been that way and to get out of it needs luck, coordination, investment (not just money) from coaches and county boards but mainly the players..

Players planning to go away to the States or Oz doesnt help either but hey, who can blame them.. The Dub Tyrone Donegal and Mayo lads (and the other super 8's) have a goal or a slim chance of eating at the top table, they stay..

The list goes on, but its not because they are not semi professional.. plenty teachers and students on the Antrim panels over the years, one could say they have more time to prepare over the summer months, but the reality is to win or compete for medals you have to do the leg work in the winter!

Jez, you are away with the fairies if you think leg work in the winter will bridge the gap!
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: High Fielder on August 16, 2018, 10:40:25 AM
Your argument suggests that any county, with hard work and commitment, can be competitive at All Ireland level? Maybe I'm picking you up wrong. Let's be honest here, the top teams are discarding lads who would walk into the Laois and Antrim sides. The pool of talent is not there and counties like ours rely on a golden period. I disagree with you about the extent to which Dublin lads are working, because it's clear to me that they are lucky enough to be able to work around football as opposed to vice versa. They also get enticements the like of which cannot be replicated elsewhere. And again I say good luck to them, but knowing what I know here in Laois, we cannot ever compete with that

I strongly believe that inter county football is a waste of time. I resent the fact that the best footballer ever, if he was born in a smaller county, would never be able to play at the highest level. This is not going to change. The same counties will be playing for the same prizes forever and the rest of us should just roll over and have our bellies tickled.

Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: From the Bunker on August 16, 2018, 10:48:07 AM
Taken form another board.

Interesting stat from Colm keys in indo today.

Limerick around 2006 had only 8% of primary kids involved in playing GAA sports, after then starting 5 year plan, this jumped to 57% in 2011…now paying dividends.

"They were the only county in my nine years on CCC2 (Dublin) that were in contact with us to ask us what we were doing and to get some advice. On the contrary we had clubs from Meath, Wicklow and Kildare trying to enter our under age club competitions because their set ups were cat. Well done Limerick.

Did not see anything in the article about what you mentioned?

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/how-success-of-munster-rugby-saved-limerick-hurling-37217211.html (https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/how-success-of-munster-rugby-saved-limerick-hurling-37217211.html)
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Rossfan on August 16, 2018, 10:55:27 AM
Kilkenny hasn't 1.3m population.
I think hey've the smallest population of the 9 main hurling Counties.

And? So its just a numbers game? The county with the biggest numbers wins? Kerry have 37, 10 more than Dublin

Kilkenny won 11 from the year 2000

Dublin have won 5 in that same time period
So Leitrim just need to work harder and they'll win a scatter if AIs? ?
Anyway what about Antrim with 200k Nationalist population and a Traditional hurling area.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 16, 2018, 11:22:49 AM
Kilkenny hasn't 1.3m population.
I think hey've the smallest population of the 9 main hurling Counties.

And? So its just a numbers game? The county with the biggest numbers wins? Kerry have 37, 10 more than Dublin

Kilkenny won 11 from the year 2000

Dublin have won 5 in that same time period

So why do your own county, or mine, Laois never win an All Ireland?

Because the players over the years are not committed enough to do anything about it.. Its a life style choice.. At club level I seen first hand what is required to win an All Ireland, times that by 10 to have a chance at county level.

This isnt a dig at current or past players of my county, its just been that way and to get out of it needs luck, coordination, investment (not just money) from coaches and county boards but mainly the players..

Players planning to go away to the States or Oz doesnt help either but hey, who can blame them.. The Dub Tyrone Donegal and Mayo lads (and the other super 8's) have a goal or a slim chance of eating at the top table, they stay..

The list goes on, but its not because they are not semi professional.. plenty teachers and students on the Antrim panels over the years, one could say they have more time to prepare over the summer months, but the reality is to win or compete for medals you have to do the leg work in the winter!

Jez, you are away with the fairies if you think leg work in the winter will bridge the gap!

Did you read the post knob? I'll highlight it for you just in case you're finding it difficult..

Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: From the Bunker on August 16, 2018, 11:27:15 AM
Kilkenny hasn't 1.3m population.
I think hey've the smallest population of the 9 main hurling Counties.

And? So its just a numbers game? The county with the biggest numbers wins? Kerry have 37, 10 more than Dublin

Kilkenny won 11 from the year 2000

Dublin have won 5 in that same time period

So why do your own county, or mine, Laois never win an All Ireland?

Because the players over the years are not committed enough to do anything about it.. Its a life style choice.. At club level I seen first hand what is required to win an All Ireland, times that by 10 to have a chance at county level.

This isnt a dig at current or past players of my county, its just been that way and to get out of it needs luck, coordination, investment (not just money) from coaches and county boards but mainly the players..

Players planning to go away to the States or Oz doesnt help either but hey, who can blame them.. The Dub Tyrone Donegal and Mayo lads (and the other super 8's) have a goal or a slim chance of eating at the top table, they stay..

The list goes on, but its not because they are not semi professional.. plenty teachers and students on the Antrim panels over the years, one could say they have more time to prepare over the summer months, but the reality is to win or compete for medals you have to do the leg work in the winter!

Jez, you are away with the fairies if you think leg work in the winter will bridge the gap!

Did you read the post knob? I'll highlight it for you just in case you're finding it difficult..

I read it and it sounds like you are another cheerleader for the Blue Army.

“Qu'ils mangent de la brioche”
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: TheGreatest on August 16, 2018, 11:29:33 AM
Taken form another board.

Interesting stat from Colm keys in indo today.

Limerick around 2006 had only 8% of primary kids involved in playing GAA sports, after then starting 5 year plan, this jumped to 57% in 2011…now paying dividends.

"They were the only county in my nine years on CCC2 (Dublin) that were in contact with us to ask us what we were doing and to get some advice. On the contrary we had clubs from Meath, Wicklow and Kildare trying to enter our under age club competitions because their set ups were cat. Well done Limerick.

Did not see anything in the article about what you mentioned?

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/how-success-of-munster-rugby-saved-limerick-hurling-37217211.html (https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/how-success-of-munster-rugby-saved-limerick-hurling-37217211.html)

The first part is from the article, the contact to Dublin part is from the board.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 16, 2018, 11:30:10 AM
Kilkenny hasn't 1.3m population.
I think hey've the smallest population of the 9 main hurling Counties.

And? So its just a numbers game? The county with the biggest numbers wins? Kerry have 37, 10 more than Dublin

Kilkenny won 11 from the year 2000

Dublin have won 5 in that same time period
So Leitrim just need to work harder and they'll win a scatter if AIs? ?
Anyway what about Antrim with 200k Nationalist population and a Traditional hurling area.

200k nationalist population, so cut that in half (women) then put in the different sports that people play, soccer, drinking and chasing women.. As for hurling we are at the right level, good competitive games aginst teams of the same level..

Football christ knows, we havent been competitive (bar one year) since the 50's there's a whole thread on it on the Antrim section if you care to read.. But this isnt about Antrim our Leitrim or even you're own county, its about people getting worked up over Dublin winning 5 titles since 2000
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: From the Bunker on August 16, 2018, 11:37:06 AM
Kilkenny hasn't 1.3m population.
I think hey've the smallest population of the 9 main hurling Counties.

And? So its just a numbers game? The county with the biggest numbers wins? Kerry have 37, 10 more than Dublin

Kilkenny won 11 from the year 2000

Dublin have won 5 in that same time period
So Leitrim just need to work harder and they'll win a scatter if AIs? ?
Anyway what about Antrim with 200k Nationalist population and a Traditional hurling area.

200k nationalist population, so cut that in half (women) then put in the different sports that people play, soccer, drinking and chasing women.. As for hurling we are at the right level, good competitive games aginst teams of the same level..

Football christ knows, we havent been competitive (bar one year) since the 50's there's a whole thread on it on the Antrim section if you care to read.. But this isnt about Antrim our Leitrim or even you're own county, its about people getting worked up over Dublin winning 5 titles since 2000

They have won 8 Leinster, 5 (and more likely 6 this year) All Irelands and 5 League titles since 2011.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: High Fielder on August 16, 2018, 11:48:53 AM
I have to say I bear no ill feeling towards the Dubs. I just don't believe Laois have any business being on the same pitch as them. Some will say that's defeatist, unambitious and disloyal, but I think it's realistic. There is way too much romantic ideaology floating around in the GAA about the endless possibilities of smaller counties one day getting their hands on All Ireland. Could you be bothered flogging a dead horse that long? Rip it up and start again because the imbalances that exist make inter county football and hurling flawed
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 16, 2018, 11:56:36 AM
Kilkenny hasn't 1.3m population.
I think hey've the smallest population of the 9 main hurling Counties.

And? So its just a numbers game? The county with the biggest numbers wins? Kerry have 37, 10 more than Dublin

Kilkenny won 11 from the year 2000

Dublin have won 5 in that same time period
So Leitrim just need to work harder and they'll win a scatter if AIs? ?
Anyway what about Antrim with 200k Nationalist population and a Traditional hurling area.

200k nationalist population, so cut that in half (women) then put in the different sports that people play, soccer, drinking and chasing women.. As for hurling we are at the right level, good competitive games aginst teams of the same level..

Football christ knows, we havent been competitive (bar one year) since the 50's there's a whole thread on it on the Antrim section if you care to read.. But this isnt about Antrim our Leitrim or even you're own county, its about people getting worked up over Dublin winning 5 titles since 2000

They have won 8 Leinster, 5 (and more likely 6 this year) All Irelands and 5 League titles since 2011.

And Kilkenny had the same during period of dominance, no one called for splitting Kilkenny in half, changing the rules or saying their players were full time professionals!
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: trailer on August 16, 2018, 12:25:42 PM
Antrim should be more competitive. The reason they are not, is down to the administration within the county. Not Money, Not Croke Park, Not Soccer, Not Protestants. The reason lies firmly within the County board. 
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: RedHand88 on August 16, 2018, 12:58:19 PM
Antrim should be more competitive. The reason they are not, is down to the administration within the county. Not Money, Not Croke Park, Not Soccer, Not Protestants. The reason lies firmly within the County board.

Young lads in Belfast are more interested in boxing and soccer than playing Gaelic football. Nothing wrong with that of course, but therein lies the problem with Antrim GAA. Those that do stick with the GAA enter into a country v county dynamic on the county team.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: trailer on August 16, 2018, 01:09:58 PM
Antrim should be more competitive. The reason they are not, is down to the administration within the county. Not Money, Not Croke Park, Not Soccer, Not Protestants. The reason lies firmly within the County board.

Young lads in Belfast are more interested in boxing and soccer than playing Gaelic football. Nothing wrong with that of course, but therein lies the problem with Antrim GAA. Those that do stick with the GAA enter into a country v county dynamic on the county team.

Yeah that's fine. My point is more that throwing huge sums of money at the problem won't fix it without a proper strategic plan. There is no quick fix.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Rossfan on August 16, 2018, 01:10:50 PM
If you have c 100k Nationalist Population in Belfast ( Antrim CB parts) you should be looking at 3,000 registered GAA playing members if you have the same percentage as Dublin.
Anyone know the figure or an educated guess.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: RedHand88 on August 16, 2018, 01:22:46 PM
If you have c 100k Nationalist Population in Belfast ( Antrim CB parts) you should be looking at 3,000 registered GAA playing members if you have the same percentage as Dublin.
Anyone know the figure or an educated guess.

Don't know about registered players but with regards the nationalist population in Antrim part of belfast is closer to 150k I would say.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jinxy on August 16, 2018, 02:11:58 PM
http://www.punditarena.com/gaa/hurling/smcmahon/unforgettable-summer-hurling-backed-tv-viewing-figures/ (http://www.punditarena.com/gaa/hurling/smcmahon/unforgettable-summer-hurling-backed-tv-viewing-figures/)

'The increased popularity and the ability to capture the imagination of the Irish sporting public was reflected in the combined attendance of the hurling semi-finals being greater than that of the football semi-finals which were held last weekend.

This also holds true for TV viewership figures. For matches broadcast by RTÉ in both football and hurling which reached over 300,000 viewers – 10 of them came from hurling games while only five came from football games, according to figures released by RTÉ to Sport For Business.'
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: From the Bunker on August 16, 2018, 02:12:33 PM
Taken form another board.

Interesting stat from Colm keys in indo today.

Limerick around 2006 had only 8% of primary kids involved in playing GAA sports, after then starting 5 year plan, this jumped to 57% in 2011…now paying dividends.

"They were the only county in my nine years on CCC2 (Dublin) that were in contact with us to ask us what we were doing and to get some advice. On the contrary we had clubs from Meath, Wicklow and Kildare trying to enter our under age club competitions because their set ups were cat. Well done Limerick.

Did not see anything in the article about what you mentioned?

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/how-success-of-munster-rugby-saved-limerick-hurling-37217211.html (https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/how-success-of-munster-rugby-saved-limerick-hurling-37217211.html)

The first part is from the article, the contact to Dublin part is from the board.

You are throwing up a  unreferenced quote from another Board as Bible? Why was it not mentioned in the original article?
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: markl121 on August 16, 2018, 09:13:50 PM
Belfast has the country v county problem for sure. But also some ridiculous stuff from the county board like that carry on a few years ago where the st galls lads had a hurling game the day before the antrim football so they were all dropped for the antrim game, after travelling to the match. Any wonder lads are put off.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: yellowcard on August 17, 2018, 03:00:03 PM
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/alan-brogan-in-2005-dublin-and-tyrone-tried-to-score-with-every-play-in-2018-it-has-become-a-different-sport-37225574.html

Good article by Alan Brogan on how the game has changed in a decade. The youtube video of the game he refers to is worth looking at and the contrast in playing style and most notably how muted crowds have become at matches. There is very little ebb and flow to gaelic football anymore, just plenty of crowd conversation as the ball is filtered sideways in possession for long spells. The atmosphere then at the big matches was more akin to hurling now which has maintained is excitement levels.   
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jinxy on August 17, 2018, 03:02:53 PM



Modern gaelic football.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Cunny Funt on August 17, 2018, 03:07:51 PM



Modern gaelic football.

Or this

https://twitter.com/RorysStories/status/1019243322236375040
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 17, 2018, 03:11:30 PM
When winning is everything then teams will do anything to win.

You can't blame Dublin for getting it right these past few years, the game that became very defensive isnt Dublin's fault, its up to the tacticians to break the current mould, seek players that will play a certain way or fit into a system..
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Hound on August 17, 2018, 03:24:57 PM
I was away, so didn't see it, but heard from a good few fellow Dubs that the U21 final between Kildare and Mayo was a cracking game.  And under the current rules too!

All is not lost.

A super 8 group in a couple of years of Dublin, Kerry, Kildare and Mayo could be awesome  ;D

Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: APM on August 17, 2018, 03:25:38 PM
When winning is everything then teams will do anything to win.

You can't blame Dublin for getting it right these past few years, the game that became very defensive isnt Dublin's fault, its up to the tacticians to break the current mould, seek players that will play a certain way or fit into a system..

Never heard worse!

Nothing to do with Dublin, this has been a gradual decendency into this style of football.  Started with 3rd Midfielder; then the sweeper; then the double sweeper and the blanket; we had Tyrone's swarm; Derry's lockout in 2006, Donegal under McGuinness and we've reached borefest.  You think that the answer lies in tactics.  Tactics might beat Dublin, but they aren't going to provide entertainment.  Tactics have taken us into a cul-de-sac and the only thing to do is to change the rules.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Blowitupref on August 17, 2018, 03:31:02 PM
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/alan-brogan-in-2005-dublin-and-tyrone-tried-to-score-with-every-play-in-2018-it-has-become-a-different-sport-37225574.html


Quote
Both teams tried to score with every play.

And both teams operated with the mindset that the best way to win was to run up as big a score as quickly as possible.


There is still a few teams at senior level that play that way and when they are well beaten by the better sides that all play the "modern" way they can't figure out what went wrong.


Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jinxy on August 17, 2018, 03:44:34 PM
The modern football era can be divided into two periods, pre and post Jimmy McGuinness.
What we thought was puke football was actually nothing of the kind.
I'd love to get back to the noughties-era football.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: mrdeeds on August 17, 2018, 03:48:41 PM
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/alan-brogan-in-2005-dublin-and-tyrone-tried-to-score-with-every-play-in-2018-it-has-become-a-different-sport-37225574.html

Good article by Alan Brogan on how the game has changed in a decade. The youtube video of the game he refers to is worth looking at and the contrast in playing style and most notably how muted crowds have become at matches. There is very little ebb and flow to gaelic football anymore, just plenty of crowd conversation as the ball is filtered sideways in possession for long spells. The atmosphere then at the big matches was more akin to hurling now which has maintained is excitement levels.   

You got an advantage to attack if you caught the kickout and later Whelan was surrounded when he landed.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: kerryforsam2018 on September 12, 2018, 11:06:01 AM
I'm going to link an article that's just full on moaning, it definitely belongs in this thread for moaners and it in no way reflects genuine concerns about Gaelic football. It's just a moanfest that shouldn't be discussed properly on this GAA forum.


https://www.irishexaminer.com/breaki...pe-855152.html
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: omaghjoe on September 12, 2018, 10:26:57 PM
The modern football era can be divided into two periods, pre and post Jimmy McGuinness.
What we thought you were told by a jealous Pat Spillane was puke football was actually nothing of the kind.
I'd love to get back to the noughties-era football.

The naughties were a golden age of football, gone was the age of the hallion that allowed for football subimlity to arise and go forth

Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jinxy on September 12, 2018, 10:40:18 PM
There were three dodgy enough years...
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: grounded on September 13, 2018, 11:08:06 AM
The modern football era can be divided into two periods, pre and post Jimmy McGuinness.
What we thought you were told by a jealous Pat Spillane was puke football was actually nothing of the kind.
I'd love to get back to the noughties-era football.

The naughties were a golden age of football, gone was the age of the hallion that allowed for football subimlity to arise and go forth

Ah the hallion. The monster who opponents both respected and feared. Also surprisingly skilful. Every team needed one or two. Big Seamus Quigley is as close as a modern day footballer could be.
                Brian Gilligan would eat him for breakfast!
Can we have a Dream Hallion team.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Aristo 60 on September 13, 2018, 12:11:50 PM
7. DJ Kane

Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Franko on September 13, 2018, 01:42:19 PM
2. Kieran McKeever
4. Tony Scullion
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: grounded on September 13, 2018, 01:49:01 PM
7. DJ Kane

Good one but probably not quite enough of a hallion. I think I once  seen him receive attention from the physio during one game!

I've a spine of my team here:

To be clear they had to be able to play as well as kicking 2shades of shite out of the opposition so rules the Grimley bros out! The Aussie's would think twice before messing with these boys.

                    1. Big Finbar mc Connell (Tyrone)

2. Paul higgins(Down).   3. Mick Lyons (meath). 4. Tony Scullion(Derry)
5. CiaranMcKeeverArmagh) 6. Liam Harnan(Meath). 7. Niall Cahalane(Cork)

          8. Brian Gilligan(Derry) captain
          9. Brian Mullins(Dublin)

10.          11. Dermot McNicholl(Derry)   12.

13.               14. The bomber liston(kerry)   15. Vinnie Corey (Monaghan)


Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Dire Ear on September 13, 2018, 02:12:11 PM
1 Finbar McConnell Tyrone !
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: trueblue1234 on September 13, 2018, 03:35:21 PM
The modern football era can be divided into two periods, pre and post Jimmy McGuinness.
What we thought you were told by a jealous Pat Spillane was puke football was actually nothing of the kind.
I'd love to get back to the noughties-era football.

The naughties were a golden age of football, gone was the age of the hallion that allowed for football subimlity to arise and go forth

Ah the hallion. The monster who opponents both respected and feared. Also surprisingly skilful. Every team needed one or two. Big Seamus Quigley is as close as a modern day footballer could be.
                Brian Gilligan would eat him for breakfast!
Can we have a Dream Hallion team.

O'Gara would run him tight tho.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: mackers on September 13, 2018, 03:50:17 PM
Geezer wasn't a hallion in fairness........the Grimley twins on the other hand were
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: grounded on September 13, 2018, 03:54:18 PM
The modern football era can be divided into two periods, pre and post Jimmy McGuinness.
What we thought you were told by a jealous Pat Spillane was puke football was actually nothing of the kind.
I'd love to get back to the noughties-era football.

The naughties were a golden age of football, gone was the age of the hallion that allowed for football subimlity to arise and go forth

Ah the hallion. The monster who opponents both respected and feared. Also surprisingly skilful. Every team needed one or two. Big Seamus Quigley is as close as a modern day footballer could be.
                Brian Gilligan would eat him for breakfast!
Can we have a Dream Hallion team.

O'Gara would run him tight tho.

He definitely would. I'm trying to think of a few forward hallions but with the exception of the Bomber and Dermot mc Nicholl i cant think of any that those backs wouldnt tear limb from limb.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Franko on September 13, 2018, 03:58:46 PM
7. DJ Kane

Good one but probably not quite enough of a hallion. I think I once  seen him receive attention from the physio during one game!

I've a spine of my team here:

To be clear they had to be able to play as well as kicking 2shades of shite out of the opposition so rules the Grimley bros out! The Aussie's would think twice before messing with these boys.

                    1. Big Finbar mc Connell (Tyrone)

2. Paul higgins(Down).   3. Mick Lyons (meath). 4. Tony Scullion(Derry)
5. KieranMcGeeney(Armagh) 6. Liam Harnan(Meath). 7. Niall Cahalane(Cork)

          8. Brian Gilligan(Derry) captain
          9. Brian Mullins(Dublin)

10.          11. Dermot McNicholl(Derry)   12.

13.               14. The bomber liston(kerry)   15.

Bellew at 3?
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: grounded on September 13, 2018, 03:59:16 PM
Geezer wasn't a hallion in fairness........the Grimley twins on the other hand were

Fair enough ive swapped him for McKeever. 
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: HiMucker on September 13, 2018, 03:59:20 PM
The modern football era can be divided into two periods, pre and post Jimmy McGuinness.
What we thought you were told by a jealous Pat Spillane was puke football was actually nothing of the kind.
I'd love to get back to the noughties-era football.

The naughties were a golden age of football, gone was the age of the hallion that allowed for football subimlity to arise and go forth

Ah the hallion. The monster who opponents both respected and feared. Also surprisingly skilful. Every team needed one or two. Big Seamus Quigley is as close as a modern day footballer could be.
                Brian Gilligan would eat him for breakfast!
Can we have a Dream Hallion team.

O'Gara would run him tight tho.


He definitely would. I'm trying to think of a few forward hallions but with the exception of the Bomber and Dermot mc Nicholl i cant think of any that those backs wouldnt tear limb from limb.
You could play Vinny Corey full forward.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: grounded on September 13, 2018, 04:06:22 PM
7. DJ Kane

Good one but probably not quite enough of a hallion. I think I once  seen him receive attention from the physio during one game!

I've a spine of my team here:

To be clear they had to be able to play as well as kicking 2shades of shite out of the opposition so rules the Grimley bros out! The Aussie's would think twice before messing with these boys.

                    1. Big Finbar mc Connell (Tyrone)

2. Paul higgins(Down).   3. Mick Lyons (meath). 4. Tony Scullion(Derry)
5. KieranMcGeeney(Armagh) 6. Liam Harnan(Meath). 7. Niall Cahalane(Cork)

          8. Brian Gilligan(Derry) captain
          9. Brian Mullins(Dublin)

10.          11. Dermot McNicholl(Derry)   12.

13.               14. The bomber liston(kerry)   15.

Bellew at 3?

Francie Bellew  or  Mick Lyons for the full back spot.

My moneys on Mick, what is the concencus here?
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: trailer on September 13, 2018, 04:24:19 PM
7. DJ Kane

Good one but probably not quite enough of a hallion. I think I once  seen him receive attention from the physio during one game!

I've a spine of my team here:

To be clear they had to be able to play as well as kicking 2shades of shite out of the opposition so rules the Grimley bros out! The Aussie's would think twice before messing with these boys.

                    1. Big Finbar mc Connell (Tyrone)

2. Paul higgins(Down).   3. Mick Lyons (meath). 4. Tony Scullion(Derry)
5. KieranMcGeeney(Armagh) 6. Liam Harnan(Meath). 7. Niall Cahalane(Cork)

          8. Brian Gilligan(Derry) captain
          9. Brian Mullins(Dublin)

10.          11. Dermot McNicholl(Derry)   12.

13.               14. The bomber liston(kerry)   15.

Bellew at 3?

Francie Bellew  or  Mick Lyons for the full back spot.

My moneys on Mick, what is the concencus here?

Larry Reilly?
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: grounded on September 13, 2018, 04:32:17 PM
I've a spine of my team here:

To be clear they had to be able to play as well as kicking 2shades of shite out of the opposition so rules the Grimley bros out! The Aussie's would think twice before messing with these boys.

                    1. Big Finbar mc Connell (Tyrone)

2. Paul higgins(Down).
3. Mick Lyons (meath).
4. Tony Scullion(Derry)
5. CiaranMcKeeverArmagh)
6. Liam Harnan(Meath).
7. Niall Cahalane(Cork)

          8. Brian Gilligan(Derry) captain
          9. Brian Mullins(Dublin)

10.
11. Dermot McNicholl(Derry)   
12. Colm macManamon(Mayo)
13. Larry Reilly (Cavan)           
14. The bomber liston(kerry)   
15. Vinnie Corey (Monaghan)
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: five points on September 13, 2018, 05:56:26 PM
I've a spine of my team here:

To be clear they had to be able to play as well as kicking 2shades of shite out of the opposition so rules the Grimley bros out! The Aussie's would think twice before messing with these boys.

                    1. Big Finbar mc Connell (Tyrone)

2. Paul higgins(Down).
3. Mick Lyons (meath).
4. Tony Scullion(Derry)
5. CiaranMcKeeverArmagh)
6. Liam Harnan(Meath).
7. Niall Cahalane(Cork)

          8. Brian Gilligan(Derry) captain
          9. Brian Mullins(Dublin)

10.
11. Dermot McNicholl(Derry)   
12. Colm macManamon(Mayo)
13. Larry Reilly (Cavan)           
14. The bomber liston(kerry)   
15. Vinnie Corey (Monaghan)

Peter Withnell, the man who silenced Mick Lyons, instead of Larry Reilly, who was never one of football's hard men.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: grounded on September 14, 2018, 01:48:54 PM
So here it is the Hallion Dream Team.

                    1. Big Finbar mc Connell (Tyrone)

2. Paul higgins(Down).
3. Mick Lyons (meath).
4. Tony Scullion(Derry)
5. CiaranMcKeeverArmagh)
6. Liam Harnan(Meath).
7. Niall Cahalane(Cork)

          8. Brian Gilligan(Derry) captain
          9. Brian Mullins(Dublin)

10. Colm Coyle (Meath)
11. Dermot McNicholl(Derry)   
12. Colm macManamon(Mayo)
13. Peter Withnell  (Down)         
14. The bomber liston(kerry)   
15. Vinnie Corey (Monaghan)
[/quote]

Notable mentions

1. Francie Bellew (Armagh)
2. Noel o Leary(Cork)
3. Either Grimley brother.(Armagh)
4. John Mc Dermott (Meath)
5. Shay Fahy (Cork)
6. Glen Ryan (Kildare)
7. Geoffrey mcGonagle (Derry)
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jinxy on September 14, 2018, 01:59:44 PM
Colm Coyle was the thinking man's hallion.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: grounded on September 14, 2018, 02:13:06 PM
Colm Coyle was the thinking man's hallion.

His 'performance' in the 96 final merits automatic inclusion.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: trileacman on September 14, 2018, 02:20:58 PM
Noel o Leary was a finer example of a hallion than Mc keever. Larry Reilly was no hallion.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: grounded on September 14, 2018, 02:26:26 PM
Noel o Leary was a finer example of a hallion than Mc keever. Larry Reilly was no hallion.


No worries, he'd be definitely needed as a blood sub at some stage. Larry removed by popular demand.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jinxy on September 14, 2018, 02:28:28 PM
Colm Coyle was the thinking man's hallion.

His 'performance' in the 96 final merits automatic inclusion.

And he would have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for that pesky umpire.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Franko on September 14, 2018, 02:55:20 PM
So here it is the Hallion Dream Team.

                    1. Big Finbar mc Connell (Tyrone)

2. Paul higgins(Down).
3. Mick Lyons (meath).
4. Tony Scullion(Derry)
5. CiaranMcKeeverArmagh)
6. Liam Harnan(Meath).
7. Niall Cahalane(Cork)

          8. Brian Gilligan(Derry) captain
          9. Brian Mullins(Dublin)

10. Colm Coyle (Meath)
11. Dermot McNicholl(Derry)   
12. Colm macManamon(Mayo)
13. Peter Withnell  (Down)         
14. The bomber liston(kerry)   
15. Vinnie Corey (Monaghan)

Notable mentions

1. Francie Bellew (Armagh)
2. Noel o Leary(Cork)
3. Either Grimley brother.(Armagh)
4. John Mc Dermott (Meath)
5. Shay Fahy (Cork)
6. Glen Ryan (Kildare)
7. Geoffrey mcGonagle (Derry)
[/quote]

Jesus that's a formidable outfit.  Not a white boot or a metatarsal in sight.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jinxy on September 14, 2018, 03:31:10 PM
Zero knee cartilage between the whole lot of them.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: BennyCake on September 14, 2018, 03:54:38 PM
No place for Paidi? No hardier bucko than him.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: Jinxy on September 14, 2018, 03:59:52 PM
Honourable mention for the attempted murder of Mickey Ned O'Sullivan by several Dublin defenders in 1975.
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: tippabu on September 23, 2018, 04:53:01 PM
Early in the 2nd half of nemo and castlehaven. Castlehaven leading 4 points to no score...Sounds truly awful
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: seafoid on September 23, 2018, 05:05:52 PM
The modern football era can be divided into two periods, pre and post Jimmy McGuinness.
What we thought was puke football was actually nothing of the kind.
I'd love to get back to the noughties-era football.
The rubicon was crossed in 2002 if not 03
Title: Re: Gaelic Football RIP
Post by: BennyCake on September 23, 2018, 08:30:07 PM
The modern football era can be divided into two periods, pre and post Jimmy McGuinness.
What we thought was puke football was actually nothing of the kind.
I'd love to get back to the noughties-era football.
The rubicon was crossed in 2002 if not 03

The 2003 semi was the watershed moment. Kerry copied the style in 2004, and it went from there.

90's football was a great era. 8 different AI winners in 9 years, with a few underdog provincial wins too.