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GAA Discussion => GAA Discussion => Topic started by: illdecide on July 02, 2018, 10:06:15 AM

Title: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: illdecide on July 02, 2018, 10:06:15 AM
Firstly where will this match be?
Secondly Roscommon will be raging hot favourites so have Armagh a chance?
Thirdly here comes the Super 8's for Roscommon Armagh, delete as you see fit
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Don Johnson on July 02, 2018, 10:07:19 AM
8/13 = raging hot?
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: illdecide on July 02, 2018, 10:08:45 AM
8/13 = raging hot?

Yip, they'll end up 1/2 before the week is out when i scalp £20 on Roscommon
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: DuffleKing on July 02, 2018, 10:10:23 AM
Worst possible draw for us from a board usage perspective.

If you don't know why Armagh folk, you soon will...
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: mackers on July 02, 2018, 10:15:15 AM
Worst possible draw for us from a board usage perspective.

If you don't know why Armagh folk, you soon will...
:) :) My first thought when I heard the draw.  It's not that it's the hardest possible draw we could have had or the fact that IF we win it puts us in a group with Tyrone, Dublin and Donegal.  It's the week's pain of looking at this thread and how it'll be polluted by yer man.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Farrandeelin on July 02, 2018, 10:18:49 AM
Worst possible draw for us from a board usage perspective.

If you don't know why Armagh folk, you soon will...

  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: smelmoth on July 02, 2018, 10:20:23 AM
Worst possible draw for us from a board usage perspective.

If you don't know why Armagh folk, you soon will...

I think we know

From a pure footballing perspective it is the toughest draw there was.

Ifs for a place in the Super8s so a tough draws were always a possibility

What can Carrick on Shannon hold? Donít recall much detail from our game there a couple of years ago other than it was hot and it was raining goals. There or Clones look like the options. Clones would appear more equidistant
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: bennydorano on July 02, 2018, 10:32:28 AM
Tough but probably a good draw, will let us know if we've really moved forward. A good testing ground for Super 8s as we could in theory have ended up in them by beating a raft of lower Division teams and faced a very rude awakening.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Orior on July 02, 2018, 10:35:51 AM
We should not fear Roscommon. Look what we did against Kildare last year.

Is Ross McQuillan a son of Martin?
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: mackers on July 02, 2018, 10:38:13 AM
Is Ross McQuillan a son of Martin?
Yes
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Captain Obvious on July 02, 2018, 10:39:28 AM
Yes Armagh could have got Laois or Cork weaker sides than Roscommon. The prize for the winner is tougher group also so not a good draw all round.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: seafoid on July 02, 2018, 10:40:51 AM
Did Armagh and Ros not play each other in 77 and 80?
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: maddog on July 02, 2018, 10:41:31 AM
Did Armagh and Ros not play each other in 77 and 80?

They did yes
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: illdecide on July 02, 2018, 10:53:09 AM
It's a good draw as Roscommon are a decent side and if we were to win it certainly will give us a bit of preparation of whats to come from the big hitters, if we lose and most people will say we will then we'll know that we'd be safer away from the Super 8's as we'd have got 3 hammerings. I'd just love it, really love it if we were to win and see Mr McStay's miserable boat race
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 02, 2018, 11:03:17 AM
It's a good draw as Roscommon are a decent side and if we were to win it certainly will give us a bit of preparation of whats to come from the big hitters, if we lose and most people will say we will then we'll know that we'd be safer away from the Super 8's as we'd have got 3 hammerings. I'd just love it, really love it if we were to win and see Mr McStay's miserable boat race
Will be McStays last match as manager of Roscommon if they lose this game i can imagine.

Very good scoring by Armagh in the last 3 games 3-16,1-19,2-16 so they rossies will need to defend well to win this game.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: trueblue1234 on July 02, 2018, 11:04:43 AM
It's a good draw as Roscommon are a decent side and if we were to win it certainly will give us a bit of preparation of whats to come from the big hitters, if we lose and most people will say we will then we'll know that we'd be safer away from the Super 8's as we'd have got 3 hammerings. I'd just love it, really love it if we were to win and see Mr McStay's miserable boat race
Will be McStays last match as manager of Roscommon if they lose this game i can imagine.

Very good scoring by Armagh in the last 3 games 3-16,1-19,2-16 so they rossies will need to defend well to win this game.

Well that just won't happen.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rossfan on July 02, 2018, 11:06:06 AM
Unlike  McGeeney  our cool clean hero smiles from time to time.

If we do lose this there'll be rumblings anyway.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: yellowcard on July 02, 2018, 11:09:35 AM
Best draw but probably toughest draw possible for Armagh.

Nobody really knows the level that Armagh are at but i suspect that they are a long way short of top 8 standard. Would hate to get into the Super 8's and get 3 hammerings which is quite possible and it would be hard to recover from such. If they beat Roscommon however they will have earned a place in the last 8.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Farrandeelin on July 02, 2018, 11:43:27 AM
Roscommon the only team outside of Ulster that Armagh beat until 2002. Is that correct?
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: APM on July 02, 2018, 11:57:01 AM

Roscommon the only team outside of Ulster that Armagh beat until 2002. Is that correct?

In the championship, yes - in the good old days Ulster teams looked for a draw against Connaught opposition as a realistic opportunity to make an AI Final.  Tyrone bt Galway in 86 and 95
Donegal bt Mayo in 92,

Down the exceptions obviously who never feared anyone when they got out of Ulster.  Derry also beat Dublin in the semi in 93. 

Just thinking that Armagh have played Roscommon a lot in the championship.  Qualifiers in 2012, 2014
Semis in 1953, 77, 80


Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: armaghniac on July 02, 2018, 12:02:13 PM
It's a good draw as Roscommon are a decent side and if we were to win it certainly will give us a bit of preparation of whats to come from the big hitters, if we lose and most people will say we will then we'll know that we'd be safer away from the Super 8's as we'd have got 3 hammerings. I'd just love it, really love it if we were to win and see Mr McStay's miserable boat race
Will be McStays last match as manager of Roscommon if they lose this game i can imagine.

Very good scoring by Armagh in the last 3 games 3-16,1-19,2-16 so they rossies will need to defend well to win this game.

Well that just won't happen.

But you can also drive a bus through the Armagh defence, if Roscommon have  one.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Orior on July 02, 2018, 12:16:16 PM
It's a good draw as Roscommon are a decent side and if we were to win it certainly will give us a bit of preparation of whats to come from the big hitters, if we lose and most people will say we will then we'll know that we'd be safer away from the Super 8's as we'd have got 3 hammerings. I'd just love it, really love it if we were to win and see Mr McStay's miserable boat race
Will be McStays last match as manager of Roscommon if they lose this game i can imagine.

Very good scoring by Armagh in the last 3 games 3-16,1-19,2-16 so they rossies will need to defend well to win this game.

Well that just won't happen.

But you can also drive a bus through the Armagh defence, if Roscommon have  one.


Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: APM on July 02, 2018, 12:28:55 PM
It's a good draw as Roscommon are a decent side and if we were to win it certainly will give us a bit of preparation of whats to come from the big hitters, if we lose and most people will say we will then we'll know that we'd be safer away from the Super 8's as we'd have got 3 hammerings. I'd just love it, really love it if we were to win and see Mr McStay's miserable boat race
Will be McStays last match as manager of Roscommon if they lose this game i can imagine.

Very good scoring by Armagh in the last 3 games 3-16,1-19,2-16 so they rossies will need to defend well to win this game.

Well that just won't happen.

But you can also drive a bus through the Armagh defence, if Roscommon have  one.


  • The loyal Orange Order brethern could march down through Armagh's defence unopposed.
  • A road bowls match could play down through Armagh's defence unopposed.
  • A group of Japanese tourists could walk down through Armagh's defence taking photographs unopposed.
  • The popemobile could drive down through Armagh's defence unopposed.
  • While on his mobile and winding people up, Tony Fearon could waddle down through Armagh's defence unopposed.
  • A Rossie could herd a flock of sheep down through Armagh's defence unopposed.
  • A sheep could herd a flock of Rossies down through Armagh's defence unopposed.

I think a combination of the sun and championship fervor have finally got to you.  Suggest spending the afternoon in a dark room listening to whale noises
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: lurganblue on July 02, 2018, 12:33:13 PM
It is probably the draw i would have wanted.  The toughest test available before the super 8s. No point going to the next stage if you arent fully prepared.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Orior on July 02, 2018, 12:34:26 PM
It's a good draw as Roscommon are a decent side and if we were to win it certainly will give us a bit of preparation of whats to come from the big hitters, if we lose and most people will say we will then we'll know that we'd be safer away from the Super 8's as we'd have got 3 hammerings. I'd just love it, really love it if we were to win and see Mr McStay's miserable boat race
Will be McStays last match as manager of Roscommon if they lose this game i can imagine.

Very good scoring by Armagh in the last 3 games 3-16,1-19,2-16 so they rossies will need to defend well to win this game.

Well that just won't happen.

But you can also drive a bus through the Armagh defence, if Roscommon have  one.


  • The loyal Orange Order brethern could march down through Armagh's defence unopposed.
  • A road bowls match could play down through Armagh's defence unopposed.
  • A group of Japanese tourists could walk down through Armagh's defence taking photographs unopposed.
  • The popemobile could drive down through Armagh's defence unopposed.
  • While on his mobile and winding people up, Tony Fearon could waddle down through Armagh's defence unopposed.
  • A Rossie could herd a flock of sheep down through Armagh's defence unopposed.
  • A sheep could herd a flock of Rossies down through Armagh's defence unopposed.

I think a combination of the sun and championship fervor have finally got to you.  Suggest spending the afternoon in a dark room listening to whale noises

I'm already there. Just hoping that some hot chick will join me for fun with crayons, colouring in, Jenga and a game of Twister.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Orior on July 02, 2018, 12:36:00 PM
It is probably the draw i would have wanted.  The toughest test available before the super 8s. No point going to the next stage if you arent fully prepared.

As long as we don't go in to the Super 8's with a depleted team (due to injuries) like last year against Tyrone.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Solo_run on July 02, 2018, 12:39:37 PM
Regardless of who wins, the winner will be doing the loser a favour.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: APM on July 02, 2018, 12:40:01 PM
It is probably the draw i would have wanted.  The toughest test available before the super 8s. No point going to the next stage if you arent fully prepared.

The draw I would have wanted also. If we get to the Super 8s, we better have earned it. 
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Captain Obvious on July 02, 2018, 12:44:01 PM
Regardless of who wins, the winner will be doing the loser a favour.
Nonsense. The loser will be missing out on three valuable championship games and guaranteed football into August.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: manfromdelmonte on July 02, 2018, 12:59:22 PM
Luckily Roscommon have a big shiny bus to drive down the Armagh defence
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Captain Obvious on July 02, 2018, 03:13:24 PM
Portlaoise at 3pm on Saturday. Double header with Tyrone Cork at 5pm
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: dec on July 02, 2018, 03:23:43 PM
in the good old days Ulster teams looked for a draw against Connaught opposition as a realistic opportunity to make an AI Final.

The first All Ireland championship I remember was 1974. The first year that a Connacht/Ulster team beat a Munster/Leinster team in my memory was 1991
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Oraisteach on July 02, 2018, 03:39:27 PM
Well, if we manage to wriggle past the Rossies, I fear that the Trifecta hammering that armaghniac projected would be very likely. Still, Iíd like a crack at Tyrone, if they beat Cork.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: weareros on July 02, 2018, 03:46:29 PM
Portlaoise at 3pm on Saturday. Double header with Tyrone Cork at 5pm
Pleasantly surprised they came up with a neutral venue in Leinster to suit all 4 teams. Armagh, like Kildare, are a team that have been improving throughout the qualifiers, after a poor first outing. Jury very much out on us; would be a major disappointment not to win on Saturday, though a group of death awaits the winner.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: seafoid on July 02, 2018, 03:48:31 PM
in the good old days Ulster teams looked for a draw against Connaught opposition as a realistic opportunity to make an AI Final.

The first All Ireland championship I remember was 1974. The first year that a Connacht/Ulster team beat a Munster/Leinster team in my memory was 1991
That match was like the end of an era
After that was the first time a Connacht team beat a Leinster/Munster team- Mayo in 96
A notable mention too to Ross Carr saying it would be 20 years before a Connacht team won Sam- that was in 95 I think. Good man Ross.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: tonto1888 on July 02, 2018, 06:20:40 PM
Tough draw but Iím happy with it. Will let us know where we are at. Can we win? Possibly. More likely we wonít but I like how Roscommon play. They arenít ultra defensive. That gives us a chance
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Syferus on July 02, 2018, 06:25:30 PM
Tough draw but Iím happy with it. Will let us know where we are at. Can we win? Possibly. More likely we wonít but I like how Roscommon play. They arenít ultra defensive. That gives us a chance

We play that way because it gives us a better chance to win, so thatís a bad thing to take heart in.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: tonto1888 on July 02, 2018, 06:26:41 PM
Tough draw but Iím happy with it. Will let us know where we are at. Can we win? Possibly. More likely we wonít but I like how Roscommon play. They arenít ultra defensive. That gives us a chance

We play that way because it gives us a better chance to win, so thatís a bad thing to take heart in.

Itís not really taking heart, itís just wenplay better against teams that play. We canít play against ultra defensive teams.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: trueblue1234 on July 02, 2018, 08:17:35 PM
Tough draw but Iím happy with it. Will let us know where we are at. Can we win? Possibly. More likely we wonít but I like how Roscommon play. They arenít ultra defensive. That gives us a chance

We play that way because it gives us a better chance to win, so thatís a bad thing to take heart in.

I think it's more a case of you don't know how to defend.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: tonto1888 on July 02, 2018, 09:41:30 PM
Tickets ordered. Roll on Saturday
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rossfan on July 02, 2018, 10:01:22 PM
Joe McQuillan to Ref it I hear.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Farrandeelin on July 02, 2018, 10:02:29 PM
Joe McQuillan to Ref it I hear.

To make up for the non-Ulster venue, they appoint an Ulster ref. Not that it matters one jot.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: DuffleKing on July 02, 2018, 10:05:37 PM

Lol. Joe has done us over so many times you should be counting Jehovah, Allah, Thor or whatever deity you usually credit with this stuff.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Tubberman on July 02, 2018, 10:08:37 PM
It's not easy to support the Rossies given that one of them invades every thread with his hyperbole and ad hominem responses, but I'm going to try.
Up the Rossies!
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on July 02, 2018, 10:18:01 PM

Lol. Joe has done us over so many times you should be counting Jehovah, Allah, Thor or whatever deity you usually credit with this stuff.

He hasn't been too bad for Kildare post McGeeney to be fair.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Syferus on July 02, 2018, 10:18:15 PM
It's not easy to support the Rossies given that one of them invades every thread with his hyperbole and ad hominem responses, but I'm going to try.
Up the Rossies!

As a representative of Roscommon, I formally do not accept your support.

Best wishes.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rossfan on July 02, 2018, 10:25:26 PM
Thanks Tub.
Was talking to a pair of fun Herrins chokers who were visiting Ros at the weekend.
They watched the Kildare/Rhubarbs game in a pub in one of our towns.
They couldn't understand how virtually 100% of the local clientele were supporting Kildare.
They said in Galway it would have been 100% for the Rhus.

I told them it's good to learn something new every day.

I'm a bit worried about this game to be honest.
A McGeeney team will be strong and fit so well get nithing handy.
Our Connacht Final nonsense left a lot to be desired on field and sideline and we seemed "gassed" in the last 10/15 minutes.
I'm hoping it was just one of those days and not a sign that the wheels are starting to depart from the wagon.

As said earlier it's either step up and progress or be left where we are - a nice team that can't handle the intensity of serious teams.
Time will tell as it always does.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rudi on July 02, 2018, 10:41:52 PM
This is a game we simply have to win. Armagh are the weakest of the round 3 winners. However we never carry the favourites tag easily, our team are a bit yellow (pardon the pun) and lack bullish intensity when the heat comes on. They have wilted numerous times against Mayo and Galway, also fell apart in Evans last game, when in a great position against Fermanagh. A nice footballing side, lacking a hard edge and mentally weak. If Armagh get a run on us early on they could win easily, if the game is there to be won in the last 10, I would also fancy Armagh. We need to get on top from the get go and keep the score board ticking over. I hear Compton and Lennon are out, 2 big losses if true. Again it's imperative we win this game, we need championship games against the big teams. Time this team stood up in the face of pressure.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Syferus on July 02, 2018, 10:46:19 PM
This is a game we simply have to win. Armagh are the weakest of the round 3 winners. However we never carry the favourites tag easily, our team are a bit yellow (pardon the pun) and lack bullish intensity when the heat comes on. They have wilted numerous times against Mayo and Galway, also fell apart in Evans last game, when in a great position against Fermanagh. A nice footballing side, lacking a hard edge and mentally weak. If Armagh get a run on us early on they could win easily, if the game is there to be won in the last 10, I would also fancy Armagh. We need to get on top from the get go and keep the score board ticking over. I hear Compton and Lennon are out, 2 big losses if true. Again it's imperative we win this game, we need championship games against the big teams. Time this team stood up in the face of pressure.

The one thing this team have shown this year is the ability to come back in games. They're not mentally brittle in the least, imo. But I don't really expect a slow start anyways.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rossfan on July 02, 2018, 11:38:27 PM
They came back in nice D2 LEAGUE games.
Even the fillip of the penalty to get the lead v Galway didn't fire them up.
Are Lennon and Compton totally out?
Hopefully Ultan will be fit for the game anyway.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: naka on July 03, 2018, 08:02:05 AM
Joe McQuillan to Ref it I hear.
A disaster for Armagh
We know we are going to get nothing from him
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Orior on July 03, 2018, 08:28:11 AM
Joe McQuillan to Ref it I hear.
A disaster for Armagh
We know we are going to get nothing from him

Nonsense. He will do his best to referee fairly.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Maroon Manc on July 03, 2018, 08:57:15 AM
Is Compton definitely out? If so he's a loss but to what extent depends on how Armagh play. Will they force Lavin into kicking long? I

If Roscommon get their fair share of possession then I expect them to win. There should be no repeat of the performances against Clare and replay against Mayo last year as the circumstances are very different mainly a 3 week break to get physically and mentally right. The Armagh posters won't like this but Roscommon will bring more to the Super 8's then Armagh would.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: lurganblue on July 03, 2018, 09:16:39 AM
Is Compton definitely out? If so he's a loss but to what extent depends on how Armagh play. Will they force Lavin into kicking long? I

If Roscommon get their fair share of possession then I expect them to win. There should be no repeat of the performances against Clare and replay against Mayo last year as the circumstances are very different mainly a 3 week break to get physically and mentally right. The Armagh posters won't like this but Roscommon will bring more to the Super 8's then Armagh would.

Yeah i know what you are saying there, however, if Armagh put on a performance that beats Roscommon then they are there on merit. It would also show that they would have something to offer the super 8s. The opposite is of course true if they dont perform well enough on the day. Some would then see it as a blessing to not be in the super 8s. We are still a little in the dark about the true measure of this Armagh team.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: seafoid on July 03, 2018, 09:21:37 AM
I fancy Ros for this one. Not because they are neighbours or because  nŪ neart go cur le cťile. Because they are better. For the following reasons :

-Ros have the best manager. Kevin McStay is far more insightful and effective than McGeeney. #Jaysus.
-Tactically Ros are more likely to get it right in the last 10 minutes when games are won
- It won't be about fitness
-Armagh are missing a lot of players who aren't motivated under the current regime eg Jamie Clarke
-Armagh are behind Ros in terms of the arc of progression- just promoted from D3, not D2
-The Ros lads know how to go for the kill-Connacht Final last year.
-Yeah, Ros lost to the Herrins but only by 4 points . Not 13 as in the other finals
-The last few weeks will have been spent learning from that.
-Losing to the Herrins is no shame.
-The standard in Connacht is higher ; )
- We need Paddy Joe in the Super 8
-Armagh fans had some interesting comments earlier in the summer :


Owen Brannigan

"Nearly prefer a quick kill than to linger on for a few more games.
It's the whole situation of poor football, over programmed players and the more creative ones gone.  Playing with flair and attacking the opposition even if we were beaten wouldn't seem so bad"

"McGeeney is turning out to be like Paddy Mo in charge but less laid back.  It has been depressing to have a series of poor managers after Big Joe stayed on too long and no succession plan was in place as the great team ebbed away"

"We have slipped into the doldrums again, not quite as bad as pre 75 more like pre 99 but like the recession of 2008 and the following years of austerity, the decline seems to have gone on for ever and difficult to see any light at the end of the tunnel. "

smelmoth

 "The league campaigns under McGeeney have been atrocious. There were games in Division 1 were we could only name 7 defenders in the panel and one of them was a kid.

Our playing resources have depleted since say 2005. A systematic review might reverse that. But our management have not maximised the returns from our playing resources. That conclusion is unavoidable. 

When we are neither winning nor interesting to watch the crowd will fall away. "

Rossies by whatever.  Connacht abķ. 

Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: smelmoth on July 03, 2018, 10:03:42 AM
You never know which Armagh are going to turn up.

We have to admit that we were poor for big chunks of the Clare game, Sligo and Westmeath didnít offer much opposition and Fermanagh was a disaster. Division 3 is not great preparation. We are also down to bones in terms of attacking personnel.

We have 3 longer term issues. We struggle against teams that are good at off the shoulder running. And we struggle against packed defences. Generally the worse a team is to watch the better they will do against Armagh. Thirdly we can be awful in the tackle. Not dirty, just inaccurate. It can be a form of sporting suicide. It harms us more than the opponent.

Up sides are there is still potential in that side and there is certainly heart and determination.

The key to which Armagh turns up is the set up. We play an attractive attacking brand of football. Our options are stick with what we know and test it against a higher level opponent or go defensive. We did this last year on the QF. It didnít go well
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: seafoid on July 03, 2018, 10:20:48 AM
Round 4 is harder than the previous rounds with all the chaff. Things are faster and decision making has to be top notch. It should be a good match
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Maroon Manc on July 03, 2018, 10:25:24 AM
Is Compton definitely out? If so he's a loss but to what extent depends on how Armagh play. Will they force Lavin into kicking long? I

If Roscommon get their fair share of possession then I expect them to win. There should be no repeat of the performances against Clare and replay against Mayo last year as the circumstances are very different mainly a 3 week break to get physically and mentally right. The Armagh posters won't like this but Roscommon will bring more to the Super 8's then Armagh would.

Yeah i know what you are saying there, however, if Armagh put on a performance that beats Roscommon then they are there on merit. It would also show that they would have something to offer the super 8s. The opposite is of course true if they dont perform well enough on the day. Some would then see it as a blessing to not be in the super 8s. We are still a little in the dark about the true measure of this Armagh team.

Absolutely, couldn't disagree with that.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: stephenite on July 03, 2018, 10:55:37 AM
It's not easy to support the Rossies given that one of them invades every thread with his hyperbole and ad hominem responses, but I'm going to try.
Up the Rossies!

As a representative of Roscommon, I formally do not accept your support.

Best wishes.

Best wishes to the Stephenites this weekend against Armagh
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on July 03, 2018, 10:56:38 AM
The Armagh posters won't like this but Roscommon will bring more to the Super 8's then Armagh would.

Yes, don't like it but I'd think there is a lot of truth in it.

You never know which Armagh are going to turn up. We have to admit that we were poor for big chunks of the Clare game, Sligo and Westmeath didnít offer much opposition and Fermanagh was a disaster. Division 3 is not great preparation. We are also down to bones in terms of attacking personnel.

We have 3 longer term issues. We struggle against teams that are good at off the shoulder running. And we struggle against packed defences. Generally the worse a team is to watch the better they will do against Armagh. Thirdly we can be awful in the tackle. Not dirty, just inaccurate. It can be a form of sporting suicide. It harms us more than the opponent.

Up sides are there is still potential in that side and there is certainly heart and determination.

The key to which Armagh turns up is the set up. We play an attractive attacking brand of football. Our options are stick with what we know and test it against a higher level opponent or go defensive. We did this last year on the QF. It didnít go well

Good post. Agree with a lot of that and only to add that the absence of so many players - through choice - really reduces our potency. If we had a full hand, I think we would be pushing for a Super 8 place on merit. I just feel the impact of these absences will come to pass sooner rather than later, and as soon as Saturday. I'll be very pleasantly surprised if we make the Super 8s. 
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: seafoid on July 03, 2018, 11:29:19 AM
If McGeeney left would Armagh have a better pick?
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: smelmoth on July 03, 2018, 11:43:50 AM
If McGeeney left would Armagh have a better pick?

Donít know
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Bisbee on July 03, 2018, 11:44:33 AM
I know the people on the Orchard Fan forum do not like to dwell on who is missing from the panel-and indeed there has to be much credit given to the lads who have stuck around and give it their best.  Jamar Hall in particular could have walked away a long time ago, but has really stuck at it.  Worked his socks off on Saturday.   Nice to heart the applause he received on Saturday when substituted-worked his socks off.
But still you cannot help but think about the added potential to the forwards if both O'Neils, Campbell, E Rafferty were available.  Possibly add to that O'Hanlon. Those guys add serious firepower and options to the Armagh attack-I think Sean Cavanagh said something to that effect on The Sunday Game.  Considering also some of the U-20 guys who may come in next year, then lots of competition for places and Armagh do start to look like a super 8 team.

Unfortunately, we will never see Clarke back in an Armagh jersey again.  Sad that we have never got to see a fully fit Kevin Dyas back again in a playmaker role in the forwards.  Made a brief cameo in the league final but looks like he has recurrence of injury?  One of our most talented footballers
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: manfromdelmonte on July 03, 2018, 11:47:05 AM
You could argue Roscommon are missing their full back and centre back due to studies abroad etc
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Imposerous on July 03, 2018, 11:51:16 AM
But still you cannot help but think about the added potential to the forwards if both O'Neils, Campbell, E Rafferty were available.  Possibly add to that O'Hanlon. Those guys add serious firepower and options to the Armagh attack-I think Sean Cavanagh said something to that effect on The Sunday Game. 

James Morgan is a massive loss in defence too; believe he will be back next year.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Tubberman on July 03, 2018, 11:54:24 AM
Game being shown on RTE News Now channel from 14:45
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: smelmoth on July 03, 2018, 11:55:10 AM
The Armagh posters won't like this but Roscommon will bring more to the Super 8's then Armagh would.

Yes, don't like it but I'd think there is a lot of truth in it.

You never know which Armagh are going to turn up. We have to admit that we were poor for big chunks of the Clare game, Sligo and Westmeath didnít offer much opposition and Fermanagh was a disaster. Division 3 is not great preparation. We are also down to bones in terms of attacking personnel.

We have 3 longer term issues. We struggle against teams that are good at off the shoulder running. And we struggle against packed defences. Generally the worse a team is to watch the better they will do against Armagh. Thirdly we can be awful in the tackle. Not dirty, just inaccurate. It can be a form of sporting suicide. It harms us more than the opponent.

Up sides are there is still potential in that side and there is certainly heart and determination.

The key to which Armagh turns up is the set up. We play an attractive attacking brand of football. Our options are stick with what we know and test it against a higher level opponent or go defensive. We did this last year on the QF. It didnít go well

Good post. Agree with a lot of that and only to add that the absence of so many players - through choice - really reduces our potency. If we had a full hand, I think we would be pushing for a Super 8 place on merit. I just feel the impact of these absences will come to pass sooner rather than later, and as soon as Saturday. I'll be very pleasantly surprised if we make the Super 8s.

Aye. I would be much happier if we give it a lash. Donít need to go mad and I think some of the direct football in the first half against Clare was a bit brainless.

If we go defensive against Roscommon I feel there will be recriminations. If we go at them with a bit more sense than against Clare and we lose then we can reconcile ourselves that is the level the current panel is at - at the moment.

The missing players is for another day. The forwards could badly do with Clarke and Campbell. Oisin OíNeill may not have been a starter anyway. I would have been more interested in seeing Rian available from the bench. Morgan is a miss. There are plenty of others and whilst McKenna and OíHanlon are more recent departures I believe this team could really do with Caolin Rafferty and Declan McKenna. The latter being the natural successor to Donaghy. We will have lost out if those boats have sailed
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Bisbee on July 03, 2018, 12:34:24 PM
 Caoilin Rafferty brought a lot of power and pace to the attack.  Very strong and direct-although not always the most accurate (mind you we had 18 wides last Saturday).  I remember him coming on at half time in a 2014 league game at Navan and changing the whole dynamic of the match.  In 2014 we had Rafferty and Dyas in the half forward line for Championship game against Cavan.  Would have been interesting to see how that would have developed without injuries and work placements coming into effect.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Timís Hero on July 03, 2018, 08:06:39 PM
ďThe missing players is for another day. The forwards could badly do with Clarke and Campbell. Oisin OíNeill may not have been a starter anyway. I would have been more interested in seeing Rian available from the bench. Morgan is a miss. There are plenty of others and whilst McKenna and OíHanlon are more recent departures I believe this team could really do with Caolin Rafferty and Declan McKenna. The latter being the natural successor to Donaghy. We will have lost out if those boats have sailedĒ



And why wait for another day to discuss the missing players ?? Will we wait for the unveiling of the new 5 year plan ? If you think Armagh have their best panel available never mind their best players on the field is deluded , if you think the OíNeills wouldnít be automatic staters on the current squad you donít see much football.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: smelmoth on July 03, 2018, 09:24:27 PM
ďThe missing players is for another day. The forwards could badly do with Clarke and Campbell. Oisin OíNeill may not have been a starter anyway. I would have been more interested in seeing Rian available from the bench. Morgan is a miss. There are plenty of others and whilst McKenna and OíHanlon are more recent departures I believe this team could really do with Caolin Rafferty and Declan McKenna. The latter being the natural successor to Donaghy. We will have lost out if those boats have sailedĒ



And why wait for another day to discuss the missing players ?? Will we wait for the unveiling of the new 5 year plan ? If you think Armagh have their best panel available never mind their best players on the field is deluded , if you think the OíNeills wouldnít be automatic staters on the current squad you donít see much football.

I can wait. You carry on

Oisin had a few cameos last year. Great power and vision. Lacking pace at this level. I think Rian will have a bigger impact at this level. Potentially a huge impact
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Imposerous on July 03, 2018, 09:37:44 PM
What would have been the training undertaken, particularly by those team coming through the qualifier route, these last number of weeks considering the hot weather?
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: tonto1888 on July 03, 2018, 10:35:10 PM
ďThe missing players is for another day. The forwards could badly do with Clarke and Campbell. Oisin OíNeill may not have been a starter anyway. I would have been more interested in seeing Rian available from the bench. Morgan is a miss. There are plenty of others and whilst McKenna and OíHanlon are more recent departures I believe this team could really do with Caolin Rafferty and Declan McKenna. The latter being the natural successor to Donaghy. We will have lost out if those boats have sailedĒ



And why wait for another day to discuss the missing players ?? Will we wait for the unveiling of the new 5 year plan ? If you think Armagh have their best panel available never mind their best players on the field is deluded , if you think the OíNeills wouldnít be automatic staters on the current squad you donít see much football.

Whatís the point talking about players who arenít there, and whatís more donít want to be?
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Solo_run on July 03, 2018, 10:44:20 PM
There is literally no point looking at players who aren't available. Morgan a few weeks back said he has recovered but doesn't want to take part this year... That's fine. I think with all the players who have done the hard work this year it would be completely unfair for others to come in and take a place.

McGeeney trusts what he has even though we know there are quality players in the county that have made themselves unavailable we know there is more. If they do come back next year, the amount of depth and quality we would have is exciting.

Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: APM on July 03, 2018, 10:45:35 PM
ďThe missing players is for another day. The forwards could badly do with Clarke and Campbell. Oisin OíNeill may not have been a starter anyway. I would have been more interested in seeing Rian available from the bench. Morgan is a miss. There are plenty of others and whilst McKenna and OíHanlon are more recent departures I believe this team could really do with Caolin Rafferty and Declan McKenna. The latter being the natural successor to Donaghy. We will have lost out if those boats have sailedĒ



And why wait for another day to discuss the missing players ?? Will we wait for the unveiling of the new 5 year plan ? If you think Armagh have their best panel available never mind their best players on the field is deluded , if you think the OíNeills wouldnít be automatic staters on the current squad you donít see much football.

Whatís the point talking about players who arenít there, and whatís more donít want to be?

Totally agree!  Seems to be more time spent in Armagh talking about how good we would be if various players were available and would commit.  I remember these discussions in the 80s about Johnny Corvan and in the last decade about Jamie Clarke.  Several of these players mentioned above took themselves off to America before the qualifiers in 2013 - not much commitment there. Nothing against them, but it doesn't say much for your opinion of the panel of players that have committed all year when you keep harking back to these prodigal sons. 
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Timís Hero on July 04, 2018, 08:21:05 AM
The point is Armagh supporters , (and I mean all Armagh supporters , not just the self proclaimed followers of Geezer who ridicule others who cannot stomach watching the current shambles ) deserve to know why there is such a huge drop off rate , and a huge number of players in the county who wonít commit , same thing in Westmeath ,Down and Louth ,when players realised county boards had appointed managers not fit for purpose , all 3 gone 2 after only 1 year , in Armagh they have to listen to same old ďitís not the managers fault , the players wonít commit, give it more time , there is a good group of uí20 coming throughĒ

I do commend the current squad for their commitment in sticking at it knowing Armagh should be at a higher level but would question whether their commitment is to Geezer or Armagh ? There seems to be an element in the group that hero worships the manager and are trotted out for interviews in IN with Crossan any time the pressure revs up.

All Armagh supporters should see the current trend towards super 8 , champions league format as an opportunity to get our house in order and become competitive on a consistent basis going forward, total root and branch review needed with those with vested interests being replaced to cease the cyclical nature of wasting talent for 10/15 years and then produce a team .
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on July 04, 2018, 08:51:41 AM
Whatís the point talking about players who arenít there, and whatís more donít want to be?

It makes for some interesting discussion - that's all. I mentioned it in the context of where I see this side going this year. My sense / worry is that this match might be a step too far and we will miss out on the Super 8s. However I'd have been much more confident of getting a place there if we'd had a full pick. The fault that we don't - for whatever reason(s) - are all entirely internal issues.

The point is Armagh supporters , (and I mean all Armagh supporters , not just the self proclaimed followers of Geezer who ridicule others who cannot stomach watching the current shambles ) deserve to know why there is such a huge drop off rate , and a huge number of players in the county who wonít commit , same thing in Westmeath ,Down and Louth ,when players realised county boards had appointed managers not fit for purpose , all 3 gone 2 after only 1 year , in Armagh they have to listen to same old ďitís not the managers fault , the players wonít commit, give it more time , there is a good group of uí20 coming throughĒ

I do commend the current squad for their commitment in sticking at it knowing Armagh should be at a higher level but would question whether their commitment is to Geezer or Armagh ? There seems to be an element in the group that hero worships the manager and are trotted out for interviews in IN with Crossan any time the pressure revs up.

All Armagh supporters should see the current trend towards super 8 , champions league format as an opportunity to get our house in order and become competitive on a consistent basis going forward, total root and branch review needed with those with vested interests being replaced to cease the cyclical nature of wasting talent for 10/15 years and then produce a team .

The current shambles!??! We have lost one meaningful game (league / championship) game this calendar year!!

I will say that the manner in which we played against Fermanagh in Enniskillen was alarming to say the least, and management did come in for a lot of warranted criticism. However equally, the manner in which the players responded to going down by four points in the closing minutes of a do or die game, playing up the hill in blazing heat, suggests to me an excellent team spirit and pride in the jersey.

You will find that "all Armagh supporters" includes "not just the self proclaimed followers of Geezer" but also those who will put the boot in Geezer, regardless of what happens on the pitch. They will choose therefore to put the blame on him for tactics, as per Enniskillen, but look elsewhere to give credit when a do-or-die spirit rescues a game from the fire (Clare last Saturday). 

If we were to win on Saturday, and thus make the last eight for the second year in a row, I don't think there would be many who could argue that we were maximizing our potential - even new members of this board with their own agendas.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: seafoid on July 04, 2018, 08:53:11 AM
What about the football ?
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Erne Man on July 04, 2018, 09:06:15 AM
Alot went wrong for Armagh that night in Enniskillen, but for me the biggest issue for them was the absence of Rory Grugan. Any time I've seen him play he has been seriously impressive, and Armagh looked clueless in attack that night without him.
I give Armagh a decent chance in the game. Roscommon are no world beaters, and despite the Connacht final being the closest of the four provincial finalists, it can't hide how one sided the second half of that game was, with Galway in complete control.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on July 04, 2018, 09:09:29 AM
What about the football ?

Here you go.


Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: seafoid on July 04, 2018, 09:11:00 AM
What about the football ?

Here you go.



Rufus, Leeds United and Armagh Geezers must be  a challenge at the moment
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on July 04, 2018, 09:20:22 AM
Rufus, Leeds United and Armagh Geezers must be  a challenge at the moment

They're always a challenge, young man!! And add to that, I've got an awful bad feeling about England and the World Cup, so I don't have my troubles to seek!!  ;D
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: smelmoth on July 04, 2018, 09:26:01 AM
The point is Armagh supporters , (and I mean all Armagh supporters , not just the self proclaimed followers of Geezer who ridicule others who cannot stomach watching the current shambles ) deserve to know why there is such a huge drop off rate , and a huge number of players in the county who wonít commit , same thing in Westmeath ,Down and Louth ,when players realised county boards had appointed managers not fit for purpose , all 3 gone 2 after only 1 year , in Armagh they have to listen to same old ďitís not the managers fault , the players wonít commit, give it more time , there is a good group of uí20 coming throughĒ

I do commend the current squad for their commitment in sticking at it knowing Armagh should be at a higher level but would question whether their commitment is to Geezer or Armagh ? There seems to be an element in the group that hero worships the manager and are trotted out for interviews in IN with Crossan any time the pressure revs up.

All Armagh supporters should see the current trend towards super 8 , champions league format as an opportunity to get our house in order and become competitive on a consistent basis going forward, total root and branch review needed with those with vested interests being replaced to cease the cyclical nature of wasting talent for 10/15 years and then produce a team .

You want someone to bite so Iíll bite.

Of course there be a full review. There should be one in every county and one that covers all counties.

Drop off rates are concerning. Issue is much wider than Armagh but if the drop off rate is higher in Armagh, or specific to a type of player, or age group, profession or stage of family life then that will come out in our review.

I strongly suspect that Armagh are not delivering on our full potential but what is that full potential? A bit of an unknown.

The review might start on Monday. I hope itís not for a while yet
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: smelmoth on July 04, 2018, 09:31:33 AM
Whatís the point talking about players who arenít there, and whatís more donít want to be?

It makes for some interesting discussion - that's all. I mentioned it in the context of where I see this side going this year. My sense / worry is that this match might be a step too far and we will miss out on the Super 8s. However I'd have been much more confident of getting a place there if we'd had a full pick. The fault that we don't - for whatever reason(s) - are all entirely internal issues.

The point is Armagh supporters , (and I mean all Armagh supporters , not just the self proclaimed followers of Geezer who ridicule others who cannot stomach watching the current shambles ) deserve to know why there is such a huge drop off rate , and a huge number of players in the county who wonít commit , same thing in Westmeath ,Down and Louth ,when players realised county boards had appointed managers not fit for purpose , all 3 gone 2 after only 1 year , in Armagh they have to listen to same old ďitís not the managers fault , the players wonít commit, give it more time , there is a good group of uí20 coming throughĒ

I do commend the current squad for their commitment in sticking at it knowing Armagh should be at a higher level but would question whether their commitment is to Geezer or Armagh ? There seems to be an element in the group that hero worships the manager and are trotted out for interviews in IN with Crossan any time the pressure revs up.

All Armagh supporters should see the current trend towards super 8 , champions league format as an opportunity to get our house in order and become competitive on a consistent basis going forward, total root and branch review needed with those with vested interests being replaced to cease the cyclical nature of wasting talent for 10/15 years and then produce a team .

The current shambles!??! We have lost one meaningful game (league / championship) game this calendar year!!

I will say that the manner in which we played against Fermanagh in Enniskillen was alarming to say the least, and management did come in for a lot of warranted criticism. However equally, the manner in which the players responded to going down by four points in the closing minutes of a do or die game, playing up the hill in blazing heat, suggests to me an excellent team spirit and pride in the jersey.

You will find that "all Armagh supporters" includes "not just the self proclaimed followers of Geezer" but also those who will put the boot in Geezer, regardless of what happens on the pitch. They will choose therefore to put the blame on him for tactics, as per Enniskillen, but look elsewhere to give credit when a do-or-die spirit rescues a game from the fire (Clare last Saturday). 

If we were to win on Saturday, and thus make the last eight for the second year in a row, I don't think there would be many who could argue that we were maximizing our potential - even new members of this board with their own agendas.

I would add that whilst we have only lost 1 game we have also really only beat 1 team of consequence (not convinced Fermanagh put their all into the league final). And that victory was a smash and grab.

We are not a team that is easy to analyse at the moment.

Roscommon are a step up. A victory would make that analysis more straight forward
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: APM on July 04, 2018, 09:42:24 AM
This season is working out very like last years.  Should have been promoted last year - got promoted this year.  Disappointing first round in Ulster.  Built momentum against Div 2/3 opposition.  Round 4 qualifier against a team that was promoted from Division 2 - lets see what happens next.

I remember thinking last year before the Kildare game that we would be better off getting pipped by a point as my feeling was that a hammering in the QFs would do us no good at all.  Although that Saturday evening in Croke Park was fantastic for the supporters and certainly brought the players on, the Tyrone hammering was a bitter way to end the season and was possibly one of the reasons some of the players haven't committed.

At the start of this year, I couldn't see how we would get promotion given then number of missing players.  However some of the guys have really stepped up and that last 7 minutes against Clare will live long in the memory and for me, it seriously compensates for the Fermanagh debacle. 

I get the same feeling about this Roscommon match as Kildare last year.  If we can put up a good performance and are beaten, I wouldn't be too disappointed given the ties that await the winner in the Super 8s. If we win, well then we are there on merit and may we can take comfort that one of the games is in the Athletic Grounds. 

Edit:
I would just add that there is a trend emerging with this team, that we have a bit of a never say die attitude and finish quite strongly in most games.  Clare this year, Westmeath last year, Kildare last year, Longford 2018 league, Fermanagh 2018 league.  Also, you couldn't complain about the attacking brand of football we are playing where we are kicking the ball a lot. If we could keep the wide count down, had a bit more patience and were a bit better at controlling possession then I'd say there is good potential in this squad as some of the U20s get integrated in.  The extra championship games will help will all of this.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rossfan on July 04, 2018, 11:43:25 AM
If we could get a Ros look in here  ::)
;https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/mcstay-believes-rossies-are-at-fork-in-the-road-37078808.html

Biggest game this management and squad have faced.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: laoislad on July 04, 2018, 12:44:35 PM
Probably the only time I've ever wanted Armagh to win a game...
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rudi on July 04, 2018, 12:51:17 PM
Probably the only time I've ever wanted Armagh to win a game...

Like the Rossies on here give a chit what you want.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rossfan on July 04, 2018, 01:04:15 PM
Probably the only time I've ever wanted Armagh to win a game...
Sad little maneen.
Are you even remotely aware that your lot are playing this weekend?
Makes no odds as very few of ye will go as usual.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Timís Hero on July 04, 2018, 01:06:59 PM
[If we were to win on Saturday, and thus make the last eight for the second year in a row, I don't think there would be many who could argue that we were maximizing our potential - even new members of this board with their own agendas]


Sorry I didnít realise this discussion forum was not open to new members with thoughts that span beyond the next or previous game .


If you can tell me Armagh have progressed in any shape or form since McGeeney came on board with his 5 year plan you are deluded, to use the example of a 69 minute non performance followed by Complete Clare collapse is more evidence of delusion.


I have no agenda or axe to grind with anyone , but am fed up with apologists for mediocrity. I think the majority of Armagh people who attend club matches week in week out know Armagh as a county are nowhere near fulfilling their potential, yet some people on this board cannot see beyond results and ignore performances no matter how shocking , all I would like to see is all Armagh coming together to ensure structures are put in place to allow us compete at a high level cosistently by getting our best talent on the field at all age groups. I donít think our current management can achieve that as to lose 2 or 3 is unfortunate , to lose 10 or 12 and have another 10 or 12 that wonít commit suggests serious mismanagement.


Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: DuffleKing on July 04, 2018, 01:22:13 PM

The only thing I would take u up on at this point before seeing how the season finishes is the assertion that both O'Neills would be starters now if they were on board - that's lunacy.

The older lad is a lovely footballer when he has the ball but has real issues getting it and the younger lad has potential but a lot to do to be considered at this level. You mentioned going to club games week to week but the only thing that has shown me about the younger lad is that ability doesn't guarantee anything - you need temprement and work rate and he has demonstrated on a weekly basis that he has neither yet.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on July 04, 2018, 01:29:26 PM
Sorry I didnít realise this discussion forum was not open to new members with thoughts that span beyond the next or previous game .

That's rather silly. It is open to new members, who can discuss what they want. However those new members can expect to be challenged on their contribution if some deem it worthy of challenge.

If you can tell me Armagh have progressed in any shape or form since McGeeney came on board with his 5 year plan you are deluded, to use the example of a 69 minute non performance followed by Complete Clare collapse is more evidence of delusion.

I really really hope that your contributions going forward will be better than that above. To imply that I used the Clare game as an example of progress under McGeeney's "5 year plan" is at best mistaken and at worst disingenuous.

I have no agenda or axe to grind with anyone

Interesting, and yet you prefer to explain our victory on Saturday by highlighting a "Complete Clare collapse" and imply that the current management of the team is responsible for the absence of 20 - 24 players!?!?

I don't think you'll find any apologists for mediocrity, despite what you and many others like you, would wish to believe. What you perceive to be apologists are actually loyal Armagh supporters, who want the best for our County and who maybe have a different perception as to the true potential of our playing resources, and who try and be a wee bit more objective in their critical analysis than the 'Geezer Out Brigade'. 
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Timís Hero on July 04, 2018, 01:55:23 PM
Would agree on the OíNeillís , but lot of talent in the county that is being wasted , no point waking up in another 5 years and thinking where to now !
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: APM on July 04, 2018, 02:10:41 PM
Would agree on the OíNeillís , but lot of talent in the county that is being wasted , no point waking up in another 5 years and thinking where to now !

I'd say there's a lot of talent being wasted in a lot of mid-ranking counties - some players waste their own talent, some are victims of circumstance.  Success breeds success and without it, lads will struggle to commit to the demands of county football.

Also remember during the noughties Joe Kernan was castigated for not giving gametime to men like Paedar Toal and several opted off the panel.  Great player, but the reality is that will be players that don't pull with the management and there will some that understandably can't justify the intense effort for a place on the bench.  There will be others that don't want to give the commitment under any circumstances because they don't want it enough due to other interests like drinking, soccer, bullets or coffee. Others, rightly in my opinion, pursue their careers.  Some are happy being the big fish in club football.

I have to say that there is something odd when so many players are opting out.  The squad would have benefited from continuity from last year, you cannot place all of the blame at McGeeney's door.  As a Division 3 outfit that took a pasting in Croke Park from our nearest and bitterest rivals, it is little wonder that some have opted out.  It also doesn't help that every time a county footballer puts on a jersey, he puts himself forward for abuse from anonymous trolls on the internet. 
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: seafoid on July 04, 2018, 02:31:38 PM
Probably the only time I've ever wanted Armagh to win a game...
Syferus is a national treasure
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Timís Hero on July 04, 2018, 02:44:06 PM
Rufus your love affair with your own opinion is unrivalled , add in your intolerance of others opinions and your ability to squirm out of facing facts makes you an ideal candidate to lead UK brexit campaign !!
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on July 04, 2018, 02:50:36 PM
Rufus your love affair with your own opinion is unrivalled , add in your intolerance of others opinions and your ability to squirm out of facing facts makes you an ideal candidate to lead UK brexit campaign !!

My hope that your contributions might improve going forward is now looking distinctly optimistic.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: illdecide on July 04, 2018, 02:58:01 PM
O'Moore Park apparently holds 27,000 not sure if that's accurate as these figures tend to fluctuate depending on Safety measures etc. What is anticipated crowd for Saturday? Can't see Cork bringing too many(1k), Armagh could bring 3-4k and Tyrone probably 5k and i'm sure Roscommon would bring a big crowd if Syferus wasn't going (only messing) say 2-3k. Throw in a few neutrals and is this game heading for about 15k?
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: JP on July 04, 2018, 05:05:05 PM
Rufus your love affair with your own opinion is unrivalled , add in your intolerance of others opinions and your ability to squirm out of facing facts makes you an ideal candidate to lead UK brexit campaign !!

My hope that your contributions might improve going forward is now looking distinctly optimistic.

Some supporters have wildly unrealistic expectations. Its an ameteur sport, there will always be players who don't commit for personal reasons and there will always be players that don't fit in with the management's regime. Asking qhether we are living up to our maximum potential is a rhertorical question as nobody can define what our potential is. However what we do have is a bunch of lads who are giving it their all and don't give up, I would rather have lads on the team giving 110% then a player who is half arsed regardless of how talented they are. We are on a good run in the qualifers and I hope to see it continue on Saturday. The Super 8's will be incredibly tough and likely we will get a few tankings should be beat Roscommon but in my book two quarter final apperances in a row is great achivements for us.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: smelmoth on July 04, 2018, 05:57:07 PM
Rufus your love affair with your own opinion is unrivalled , add in your intolerance of others opinions and your ability to squirm out of facing facts makes you an ideal candidate to lead UK brexit campaign !!

My hope that your contributions might improve going forward is now looking distinctly optimistic.

Some supporters have wildly unrealistic expectations. Its an ameteur sport, there will always be players who don't commit for personal reasons and there will always be players that don't fit in with the management's regime. Asking qhether we are living up to our maximum potential is a rhertorical question as nobody can define what our potential is. However what we do have is a bunch of lads who are giving it their all and don't give up, I would rather have lads on the team giving 110% then a player who is half arsed regardless of how talented they are. We are on a good run in the qualifers and I hope to see it continue on Saturday. The Super 8's will be incredibly tough and likely we will get a few tankings should be beat Roscommon but in my book two quarter final apperances in a row is great achivements for us.

Tim is here to antagonise.

But we move away from that and from Armagh and from McGeeney there is a real issue re players dropping out. There will not be a single reason that covers all but one issue I do have is the number of skilful forwards dropping out. So I would be a little concerned about the ultimate conclusion if we stick to the lads giving 110% line of thinking. Especially when itís 110% on the training pitch or in the gym that might influence selection.

If we stick to that, and in some quarters we already have, there is no room for a Maurice Fitz in our game. I donít think we are the richer for that
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: JP on July 04, 2018, 06:11:51 PM
Rufus your love affair with your own opinion is unrivalled , add in your intolerance of others opinions and your ability to squirm out of facing facts makes you an ideal candidate to lead UK brexit campaign !!

My hope that your contributions might improve going forward is now looking distinctly optimistic.

Some supporters have wildly unrealistic expectations. Its an ameteur sport, there will always be players who don't commit for personal reasons and there will always be players that don't fit in with the management's regime. Asking qhether we are living up to our maximum potential is a rhertorical question as nobody can define what our potential is. However what we do have is a bunch of lads who are giving it their all and don't give up, I would rather have lads on the team giving 110% then a player who is half arsed regardless of how talented they are. We are on a good run in the qualifers and I hope to see it continue on Saturday. The Super 8's will be incredibly tough and likely we will get a few tankings should be beat Roscommon but in my book two quarter final apperances in a row is great achivements for us.

Tim is here to antagonise.

But we move away from that and from Armagh and from McGeeney there is a real issue re players dropping out. There will not be a single reason that covers all but one issue I do have is the number of skilful forwards dropping out. So I would be a little concerned about the ultimate conclusion if we stick to the lads giving 110% line of thinking. Especially when itís 110% on the training pitch or in the gym that might influence selection.

If we stick to that, and in some quarters we already have, there is no room for a Maurice Fitz in our game. I donít think we are the richer for that

I agree, nobody wants a team full of gym monkeys and robots that just go through the motions. But you can't say the likes of Grugan or Murnin full into this category and they certainly give it everything they have. If someone has the talent but doesn't really want to be there or can't commit, then they shouldn't be there. You can't build a team and rely on fellas who heads aren't in it IMO.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: twohands!!! on July 04, 2018, 06:26:41 PM
O'Moore Park apparently holds 27,000 not sure if that's accurate as these figures tend to fluctuate depending on Safety measures etc. What is anticipated crowd for Saturday? Can't see Cork bringing too many(1k), Armagh could bring 3-4k and Tyrone probably 5k and i'm sure Roscommon would bring a big crowd if Syferus wasn't going (only messing) say 2-3k. Throw in a few neutrals and is this game heading for about 15k?

I'd say Cork will be doing very well if they break the 1k barrier after the Kerry destruction.

I think 15k might be a bit optimistic - I'd guess around the 12k mark.

Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 04, 2018, 08:38:32 PM
O'Moore Park apparently holds 27,000 not sure if that's accurate as these figures tend to fluctuate depending on Safety measures etc. What is anticipated crowd for Saturday? Can't see Cork bringing too many(1k), Armagh could bring 3-4k and Tyrone probably 5k and i'm sure Roscommon would bring a big crowd if Syferus wasn't going (only messing) say 2-3k. Throw in a few neutrals and is this game heading for about 15k?

I'd say Cork will be doing very well if they break the 1k barrier after the Kerry destruction.

I think 15k might be a bit optimistic - I'd guess around the 12k mark.

12k of the 19k Connacht final attendance was probably from Roscommon you would imagine about half of that support will now travel to O'Moore park. Armagh and Tyrone have good support also. Less said about Cork the better.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: smelmoth on July 04, 2018, 08:39:28 PM
Rufus your love affair with your own opinion is unrivalled , add in your intolerance of others opinions and your ability to squirm out of facing facts makes you an ideal candidate to lead UK brexit campaign !!

My hope that your contributions might improve going forward is now looking distinctly optimistic.

Some supporters have wildly unrealistic expectations. Its an ameteur sport, there will always be players who don't commit for personal reasons and there will always be players that don't fit in with the management's regime. Asking qhether we are living up to our maximum potential is a rhertorical question as nobody can define what our potential is. However what we do have is a bunch of lads who are giving it their all and don't give up, I would rather have lads on the team giving 110% then a player who is half arsed regardless of how talented they are. We are on a good run in the qualifers and I hope to see it continue on Saturday. The Super 8's will be incredibly tough and likely we will get a few tankings should be beat Roscommon but in my book two quarter final apperances in a row is great achivements for us.

Tim is here to antagonise.

But we move away from that and from Armagh and from McGeeney there is a real issue re players dropping out. There will not be a single reason that covers all but one issue I do have is the number of skilful forwards dropping out. So I would be a little concerned about the ultimate conclusion if we stick to the lads giving 110% line of thinking. Especially when itís 110% on the training pitch or in the gym that might influence selection.

If we stick to that, and in some quarters we already have, there is no room for a Maurice Fitz in our game. I donít think we are the richer for that

I agree, nobody wants a team full of gym monkeys and robots that just go through the motions. But you can't say the likes of Grugan or Murnin full into this category and they certainly give it everything they have. If someone has the talent but doesn't really want to be there or can't commit, then they shouldn't be there. You can't build a team and rely on fellas who heads aren't in it IMO.

The nature of the game today drives the commitment levels required, which appeals to a mindset and deters another which further influences the nature of the game. The point is - is this a virtuous circle or a downward spiral?

My concern is that anyone who is bold enough to do anything about it or suggest doing about it is shouted down as negative or a died in the wool traditionalist
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Timís Hero on July 04, 2018, 08:44:10 PM
Apologies again ,I must be in the wrong thread this is obviously the Armagh cheerleaders association and any debate about and analysis of Armaghís performances under the current regime are not welcome, we all agree to let Rufus spoof on like a poor mans Joe Brolly and not challenge any of his assertions .
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: tonto1888 on July 04, 2018, 09:30:28 PM
Apologies again ,I must be in the wrong thread this is obviously the Armagh cheerleaders association and any debate about and analysis of Armaghís performances under the current regime are not welcome, we all agree to let Rufus spoof on like a poor mans Joe Brolly and not challenge any of his assertions .

So analyse Armaghís performances then
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rossfan on July 04, 2018, 09:36:51 PM
Could ye Armagh st open a new thread about Armagh football and leave this one for Saturday's match.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: smelmoth on July 04, 2018, 09:52:18 PM
Could ye Armagh st open a new thread about Armagh football and leave this one for Saturday's match.

Timmy is about to give you an insightful and nuanced analysis of your next opponent and you want to shut him down??
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Syferus on July 05, 2018, 12:06:46 AM
Could ye Armagh st open a new thread about Armagh football and leave this one for Saturday's match.

Timmy is about to give you an insightful and nuanced analysis of your next opponent and you want to shut him down??

Why would we need insight into a speed bump? Itís there to be drove over.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: weareros on July 05, 2018, 01:34:36 AM
Could ye Armagh st open a new thread about Armagh football and leave this one for Saturday's match.

Timmy is about to give you an insightful and nuanced analysis of your next opponent and you want to shut him down??

In fairness he could have been a Rossie a year before giving out about management and missing players. And then we bate Galway. Worries me.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Owen Brannigan on July 05, 2018, 07:50:14 AM
The spirit of 77 would be enough to carry Armagh through to the Super 8s.  Only worry is whether we have the players of the same abilities?

I have been as critical of McGeeney as anyone else but he has brought this squad to a stage where they are reaching a level of maturity that has been stilted by playing Division 3 for too long.  He has been handicapped by the withdrawals of players for whatever reasons and by injuries, although they affect all teams.

They have the potential to beat Roscommon if McGeeney can resist his usual impulse in bigger games to change the style of play to supposedly deal with the opposition threat like in last year's Tyrone match.  Best to build on the current game plan and go for it against Roscommon, we would rather go down attacking than wilt against a reasonable but flaky Roscommon team with some amended defensive system.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Timís Hero on July 05, 2018, 08:11:37 AM
Yet again on this forum ,attack anyone who doesnít toe the party line ! We have enough experts on here analysing or making excuses for the inability of Armagh to get within an asses roar of a top team. The stats speak for themselves and have been well documented ,

Iím not interested in bashing players or management but am sick of the endless posts ignoring the facts and pretending we are making progress , all I ask is for debate on how to improve into consistently maximising the undoubted talent there is in the county . Putting structures in place to avoid the peak and trough cycle we have been on since the formation of the gaa.


Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Solo_run on July 05, 2018, 08:29:41 AM
Yet again on this forum ,attack anyone who doesnít toe the party line ! We have enough experts on here analysing or making excuses for the inability of Armagh to get within an asses roar of a top team. The stats speak for themselves and have been well documented ,

Iím not interested in bashing players or management but am sick of the endless posts ignoring the facts and pretending we are making progress , all I ask is for debate on how to improve into consistently maximising the undoubted talent there is in the county . Putting structures in place to avoid the peak and trough cycle we have been on since the formation of the gaa.

So rather than showing support for the team tomorrow you want to talk about the future direction this team should go and criticise their performance before the end of the season?

There is really no point talking about this today, how about you let the team play and if the performance tomorrow is not to your liking we will be more than happy to discuss. This conversation is for when they are out of the championship not before it.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: smelmoth on July 05, 2018, 08:32:37 AM
Yet again on this forum ,attack anyone who doesnít toe the party line ! We have enough experts on here analysing or making excuses for the inability of Armagh to get within an asses roar of a top team. The stats speak for themselves and have been well documented ,

Iím not interested in bashing players or management but am sick of the endless posts ignoring the facts and pretending we are making progress , all I ask is for debate on how to improve into consistently maximising the undoubted talent there is in the county . Putting structures in place to avoid the peak and trough cycle we have been on since the formation of the gaa.

Itís not really analysis is it?

There will need to be some soul searching when our season ends. Iím happy enough if that is deferred until our season ends. The remainder of our season will have a big bearing on the conclusions.

Given that no structure or appointment is going to change in the interim your sense of urgency is bemusing.

And Iím no apologist for McGeeney or for failure or mediocrity. The review needs to be cold and steely. But it doesnít need rushed
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: smelmoth on July 05, 2018, 08:34:32 AM
The spirit of 77 would be enough to carry Armagh through to the Super 8s.  Only worry is whether we have the players of the same abilities?

I have been as critical of McGeeney as anyone else but he has brought this squad to a stage where they are reaching a level of maturity that has been stilted by playing Division 3 for too long.  He has been handicapped by the withdrawals of players for whatever reasons and by injuries, although they affect all teams.

They have the potential to beat Roscommon if McGeeney can resist his usual impulse in bigger games to change the style of play to supposedly deal with the opposition threat like in last year's Tyrone match.  Best to build on the current game plan and go for it against Roscommon, we would rather go down attacking than wilt against a reasonable but flaky Roscommon team with some amended defensive system.

Completely agree on that last point.

I hate defensive football but watching a mimic is worse than watching the real thing
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: illdecide on July 05, 2018, 09:14:06 AM
Give me the fella who's maybe not as talented as some other guy but is 100% committed any day of the week, every club and County team have these guys and they fall away. Who gives a F**k about these men, concentrate on the men who are going out to try and beat Roscommon on Saturday.

As for the match (for you Roscommon men) I have no idea how this is going to pan out, Armagh can be quite inconsistent and TBH it's anyone's guess how we'll play on Sat. There is a big game in them that's for sure and i hope it comes on Sat, I've watched Roscommon a few times over the last few years and they're pretty decent. Pound for pound they have better players than Armagh but that doesn't mean than Armagh can't win as we can for sure, If KMcG can get his match ups right and a we bit of luck we can sneak this but the bookies are never far away and have Roscommon as clear favourites to win the game.

I really prefer Armagh playing our southern Brethren rather than Ulster teams as we always seem to do better...here's hoping. C'mon Armagh!!!

Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Ethan Tremblay on July 05, 2018, 10:23:45 AM
Good man Timís Hero,

Whatís your main suggestions to maximise the talent? What are the facts you are referring to? Armagh are a small county, suffering the same effects present around the country, immigration, players opting out due to the lifestyle Gaelic presents, work commitments, not prepared to commit 4+ nights per week for the best part of the year. 

Honestly what would your suggestions be right now to resolve Armagh woeís?

As for management slating, at the end of the day he trains the team, picks the starting 15, and tells them how he wants them to play tactically.  Against Clare, I seen a player miss a free kick an u14 could have scored, 18 wides kicked, and stray kick passes all over the pitch.  Clare finished 3rd in division 2, above Tipp, Cork, Meath and Down, had Armagh lost it would have been the managements fault no doubt, for getting beat by a team, by league standings, better than Armagh. 

Moving on to the weekend, Roscommon is the biggest game of the year for Armagh, and I would liken it to the Kildare match last year, more hope than expectation.  Havenít seen much of Roscommon bar patches of the div 2 final, and if they are on fire I would expect them to win. 
Armagh cannot be as wasteful this week either or they will be shooting themselves in the foot. 
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: seafoid on July 05, 2018, 10:42:07 AM
Question for Armagh fans

If you had to choose between :

A) England winning the world cup
B) Tyrone winning Sam again
C) Root Canal treatment

which would you choose ?
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: maddog on July 05, 2018, 10:46:49 AM
Question for Armagh fans

If you had to choose between :

A) England winning the world cup
B) Down winning Sam again
C) Root Canal treatment

which would you choose ?

C if you made the change above
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on July 05, 2018, 10:51:11 AM
Against Clare, I seen a player miss a free kick an u14 could have scored, 18 wides kicked, and stray kick passes all over the pitch.

Armagh cannot be as wasteful this week either or they will be shooting themselves in the foot.

I mentioned this on our own forum. The amount of unforced errors that we commit in the way of shooting, aimless passes, poor tackling etc. has been shocking, and has been a symptom of our play throughout the year.

Many of the wides that we accumulated against Clare - just like the Fermanagh game - came from poor long balls played into our full forward line that simply bounced over the head of the attacker and out over the end line. To be fair to Grimley, I think he is an excellent free taker off the ground, but the very dry and parched conditions against Clare meant he ended up taking frees out of the hands and he got them totally wrong.

The key for Saturday will be to try and eradicate all of these errors and ensure that we make best use of our possession, which will hopefully maximize our chances of victory.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: seafoid on July 05, 2018, 10:56:31 AM
Against Clare, I seen a player miss a free kick an u14 could have scored, 18 wides kicked, and stray kick passes all over the pitch.

Armagh cannot be as wasteful this week either or they will be shooting themselves in the foot.

I mentioned this on our own forum. The amount of unforced errors that we commit in the way of shooting, aimless passes, poor tackling etc. has been shocking, and has been a symptom of our play throughout the year.

Many of the wides that we accumulated against Clare - just like the Fermanagh game - came from poor long balls played into our full forward line that simply bounced over the head of the attacker and out over the end line. To be fair to Grimley, I think he is an excellent free taker off the ground, but the very dry and parched conditions against Clare meant he ended up taking frees out of the hands and he got them totally wrong.

The key for Saturday will be to try and eradicate all of these errors and ensure that we make best use of our possession, which will hopefully maximize our chances of victory.
Most matches other than the turkey shoots are won in the last 10 minutes . I think the Rossies believe in themselves so it should be a cracker with everything to play for going down the home straight.
If they get any goal chances they will take them.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on July 05, 2018, 11:01:55 AM
Most matches other than the turkey shoots are won in the last 10 minutes . I think the Rossies believe in themselves so it should be a cracker with everything to play for going down the home straight. If they get any goal chances they will take them.

Yes, I think they are by a distance the best team that we have played this year.

Chatting to folks around me in the stand last Saturday, including Clare supporters, with both teams going toe-to-toe and the match in the balance, and it was mentioned more than once that Kerry put 32 points (and scores) on Clare and that the game we were watching was nip and tuck. There was a realization that regardless of who went on to win, in the greater scheme of things......... :-\
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: giveballaghback on July 05, 2018, 11:09:13 AM
The spirit of 77 would be enough to carry Armagh through to the Super 8s.  Only worry is whether we have the players of the same abilities?

I have been as critical of McGeeney as anyone else but he has brought this squad to a stage where they are reaching a level of maturity that has been stilted by playing Division 3 for too long.  He has been handicapped by the withdrawals of players for whatever reasons and by injuries, although they affect all teams.

They have the potential to beat Roscommon if McGeeney can resist his usual impulse in bigger games to change the style of play to supposedly deal with the opposition threat like in last year's Tyrone match.  Best to build on the current game plan and go for it against Roscommon, we would rather go down attacking than wilt against a reasonable but flaky Roscommon team with some amended defensive system.

Completely agree on that last point.

I hate defensive football but watching a mimic is worse than watching the real thing
The spirit of 77? you surely mean the luck and incompetent ref of 77 Mr. Collins of westmeath, Mickey Freyne had a perfect goal disallowed for square ball, Armagh got a penalty to bring them back into the game and the foul was clearly yards outside the area if it was a foul at all and if you think im doting just read Eugene McGees book "great all-ireland semi finals" and he says everything I have said here and of course we had the very sporting Armagh manager walking across the field and sledgeing the great Dermott Earley before he took a late 45 when the game was level, to the day he died Dermott would not say what O Neill said to him that day, more class than O Neill I would say.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: seafoid on July 05, 2018, 11:19:42 AM
Most matches other than the turkey shoots are won in the last 10 minutes . I think the Rossies believe in themselves so it should be a cracker with everything to play for going down the home straight. If they get any goal chances they will take them.

Yes, I think they are by a distance the best team that we have played this year.

Chatting to folks around me in the stand last Saturday, including Clare supporters, with both teams going toe-to-toe and the match in the balance, and it was mentioned more than once that Kerry put 32 points (and scores) on Clare and that the game we were watching was nip and tuck. There was a realization that regardless of who went on to win, in the greater scheme of things......... :-\
There is a lot of psychology in provincial matches which is reduced in open draws like the qfs. But it's a good point regardless.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: smelmoth on July 05, 2018, 11:47:32 AM
Against Clare, I seen a player miss a free kick an u14 could have scored, 18 wides kicked, and stray kick passes all over the pitch.

Armagh cannot be as wasteful this week either or they will be shooting themselves in the foot.

I mentioned this on our own forum. The amount of unforced errors that we commit in the way of shooting, aimless passes, poor tackling etc. has been shocking, and has been a symptom of our play throughout the year.

Many of the wides that we accumulated against Clare - just like the Fermanagh game - came from poor long balls played into our full forward line that simply bounced over the head of the attacker and out over the end line. To be fair to Grimley, I think he is an excellent free taker off the ground, but the very dry and parched conditions against Clare meant he ended up taking frees out of the hands and he got them totally wrong.

The key for Saturday will be to try and eradicate all of these errors and ensure that we make best use of our possession, which will hopefully maximize our chances of victory.

He was knocking them over out of his hands against Sligo. Looks like he made that switch after been taken off frees previously
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: smelmoth on July 05, 2018, 11:58:50 AM
Most matches other than the turkey shoots are won in the last 10 minutes . I think the Rossies believe in themselves so it should be a cracker with everything to play for going down the home straight. If they get any goal chances they will take them.

Yes, I think they are by a distance the best team that we have played this year.

Chatting to folks around me in the stand last Saturday, including Clare supporters, with both teams going toe-to-toe and the match in the balance, and it was mentioned more than once that Kerry put 32 points (and scores) on Clare and that the game we were watching was nip and tuck. There was a realization that regardless of who went on to win, in the greater scheme of things......... :-\

Im an optimist and reckon there is a lot more ability in this Armagh side. But I canít see how they could get close to Kerry or Dublin. There is a bunch of counties behind that who on a good day can get close to Kerry and Dublin and on a bad day (or very bad day) would be vulnerable to a county like ourselves. In the near term itís Monaghan, Roscommon, Donegal, Kildare, Meath, Down etc etc we need to bench mark ourselves against in league and championship.

An inability to get close to Dublin shouldnít mask failures against a frankly awful Laois side, poor performances/results against Wexford, Wicklow, Longford, Louth, Fermanagh, Sligo or massive tactical implosions against Cavan, Tyrone or even Fermanagh.

The Dublin thing is for Croke Park to sort. The other stuff is for us to sort
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Solo_run on July 05, 2018, 12:18:17 PM
Question for Armagh fans

If you had to choose between :

A) England winning the world cup
B) Tyrone winning Sam again
C) Root Canal treatment

which would you choose ?

Never had one but I would go for C without the local anastehtic
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: tonto1888 on July 05, 2018, 04:20:36 PM
Yet again on this forum ,attack anyone who doesnít toe the party line ! We have enough experts on here analysing or making excuses for the inability of Armagh to get within an asses roar of a top team. The stats speak for themselves and have been well documented ,

Iím not interested in bashing players or management but am sick of the endless posts ignoring the facts and pretending we are making progress , all I ask is for debate on how to improve into consistently maximising the undoubted talent there is in the county . Putting structures in place to avoid the peak and trough cycle we have been on since the formation of the gaa.

Who attacked you? Whatís the party line?
Can you not provide an analysis?
What structures should we put in place?
And how do we maximise the talent?
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Armamike on July 05, 2018, 04:38:43 PM
Question for Armagh fans

If you had to choose between :

A) England winning the world cup
B) Tyrone winning Sam again
C) Root Canal treatment

which would you choose ?

Never had one but I would go for C without the local anastehtic

Root canal's not that bad. 
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: maddog on July 05, 2018, 05:00:32 PM
The spirit of 77 would be enough to carry Armagh through to the Super 8s.  Only worry is whether we have the players of the same abilities?

I have been as critical of McGeeney as anyone else but he has brought this squad to a stage where they are reaching a level of maturity that has been stilted by playing Division 3 for too long.  He has been handicapped by the withdrawals of players for whatever reasons and by injuries, although they affect all teams.

They have the potential to beat Roscommon if McGeeney can resist his usual impulse in bigger games to change the style of play to supposedly deal with the opposition threat like in last year's Tyrone match.  Best to build on the current game plan and go for it against Roscommon, we would rather go down attacking than wilt against a reasonable but flaky Roscommon team with some amended defensive system.

Completely agree on that last point.

I hate defensive football but watching a mimic is worse than watching the real thing
The spirit of 77? you surely mean the luck and incompetent ref of 77 Mr. Collins of westmeath, Mickey Freyne had a perfect goal disallowed for square ball, Armagh got a penalty to bring them back into the game and the foul was clearly yards outside the area if it was a foul at all and if you think im doting just read Eugene McGees book "great all-ireland semi finals" and he says everything I have said here and of course we had the very sporting Armagh manager walking across the field and sledgeing the great Dermott Earley before he took a late 45 when the game was level, to the day he died Dermott would not say what O Neill said to him that day, more class than O Neill I would say.

Who's idea was it to go fighting with Kerry in 1980 ? You were motoring well at one point.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 05, 2018, 05:10:20 PM
Not many managers have better qualifier records than that.




Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Armamike on July 05, 2018, 05:12:20 PM
The spirit of 77 would be enough to carry Armagh through to the Super 8s.  Only worry is whether we have the players of the same abilities?

I have been as critical of McGeeney as anyone else but he has brought this squad to a stage where they are reaching a level of maturity that has been stilted by playing Division 3 for too long.  He has been handicapped by the withdrawals of players for whatever reasons and by injuries, although they affect all teams.

They have the potential to beat Roscommon if McGeeney can resist his usual impulse in bigger games to change the style of play to supposedly deal with the opposition threat like in last year's Tyrone match.  Best to build on the current game plan and go for it against Roscommon, we would rather go down attacking than wilt against a reasonable but flaky Roscommon team with some amended defensive system.

Completely agree on that last point.

I hate defensive football but watching a mimic is worse than watching the real thing
The spirit of 77? you surely mean the luck and incompetent ref of 77 Mr. Collins of westmeath, Mickey Freyne had a perfect goal disallowed for square ball, Armagh got a penalty to bring them back into the game and the foul was clearly yards outside the area if it was a foul at all and if you think im doting just read Eugene McGees book "great all-ireland semi finals" and he says everything I have said here and of course we had the very sporting Armagh manager walking across the field and sledgeing the great Dermott Earley before he took a late 45 when the game was level, to the day he died Dermott would not say what O Neill said to him that day, more class than O Neill I would say.

You're still sore then.  Did Roscommon not contribute anything to their own downfall that day or was it all due to bad luck, refereeing and bad sportsmanship?
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: weareros on July 05, 2018, 05:25:40 PM
The spirit of 77 would be enough to carry Armagh through to the Super 8s.  Only worry is whether we have the players of the same abilities?

I have been as critical of McGeeney as anyone else but he has brought this squad to a stage where they are reaching a level of maturity that has been stilted by playing Division 3 for too long.  He has been handicapped by the withdrawals of players for whatever reasons and by injuries, although they affect all teams.

They have the potential to beat Roscommon if McGeeney can resist his usual impulse in bigger games to change the style of play to supposedly deal with the opposition threat like in last year's Tyrone match.  Best to build on the current game plan and go for it against Roscommon, we would rather go down attacking than wilt against a reasonable but flaky Roscommon team with some amended defensive system.

Completely agree on that last point.

I hate defensive football but watching a mimic is worse than watching the real thing
The spirit of 77? you surely mean the luck and incompetent ref of 77 Mr. Collins of westmeath, Mickey Freyne had a perfect goal disallowed for square ball, Armagh got a penalty to bring them back into the game and the foul was clearly yards outside the area if it was a foul at all and if you think im doting just read Eugene McGees book "great all-ireland semi finals" and he says everything I have said here and of course we had the very sporting Armagh manager walking across the field and sledgeing the great Dermott Earley before he took a late 45 when the game was level, to the day he died Dermott would not say what O Neill said to him that day, more class than O Neill I would say.

You're still sore then.  Did Roscommon not contribute anything to their own downfall that day or was it all due to bad luck, refereeing and bad sportsmanship?

Was a great team. At the risk of irking our neighbours during their time of sorrow, they were the best team I ever saw never to win an All-Ireland. Three games in particular were thrown away: Armagh in 77, Dublin 79 and of course the All-Ireland in 1980. We were the architects of our own misfortune. Gay left an awful soft goal in that slipped through his hands in 77, Finneran should have started in 79, even then his goal of the year put us in a winning position. If we continued to play the type of football we did in semi-final win over Armagh, we would have beaten Kerry. Even O'Dwyer always maintained that is the one Kerry should have lost. Of course Ros got blamed for the foul fest. Kerry then were whiter than white and ref was too naive to see Spillane faking fouls, or catch their pulling and dragging on our forwards. We are a long time waiting to even get a schniff of Sam since.

Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: laoislad on July 05, 2018, 06:44:16 PM
Not many managers have better qualifier records than that.



Laois beat them twice..... :D
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: BennyCake on July 05, 2018, 06:47:57 PM
Not many managers have better qualifier records than that.




Is it just me or is McGeeney looking years younger as Armagh manager?
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: tonto1888 on July 05, 2018, 08:14:40 PM
Not many managers have better qualifier records than that.




Is it just me or is McGeeney looking years younger as Armagh manager?

Itís because he didnít have the cap on in that picture. The cap adds years to him
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Harold Disgracey on July 05, 2018, 10:17:14 PM
http://gaa.ie/football/news/roscommon-armagh-a-rivalry-revisted/
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Blowitupref on July 05, 2018, 10:24:01 PM
Roscommon team named. 3 changes from the Connacht final team with McDermott,Harney and Cathal Cregg coming into the side.

Colm Lavin (Eire Og)
David Murray (Padraig Pearses)
Niall McInerney (St Brigids)
Sean McDermott (Western Gaels)
John McManus (Roscommon Gaels)
Peter Domican (St Brigids)
Conor Devaney (Kilbride)
Cathal Compton (Strokestown)
Tadgh O Rourke (Tulsk)
Ciarain Murtagh (St Faithleachs)
Cathal Cregg (Western Gaels)
Enda Smith (Boyle)
Donie Smith (Boyle)
Ultan Harney (Clann Na Gael)
Diarmuid Murtagh (St Faithleachs)
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Owen Brannigan on July 05, 2018, 10:55:51 PM
Game being broadcasted by RTE

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2018/0705/976614-roscommon-v-armagh-qualifier-live-on-rte-news-now/ (https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2018/0705/976614-roscommon-v-armagh-qualifier-live-on-rte-news-now/)

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/gaa/rte-to-show-armagh-v-roscommon-game-online-for-northern-ireland-viewers-37083643.html (https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/gaa/rte-to-show-armagh-v-roscommon-game-online-for-northern-ireland-viewers-37083643.html)

Also on pay to view on Premier Sports on SKY.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on July 05, 2018, 11:30:45 PM
Was a great team. At the risk of irking our neighbours during their time of sorrow, they were the best team I ever saw never to win an All-Ireland. Three games in particular were thrown away: Armagh in 77, Dublin 79 and of course the All-Ireland in 1980. We were the architects of our own misfortune. Gay left an awful soft goal in that slipped through his hands in 77, Finneran should have started in 79, even then his goal of the year put us in a winning position. If we continued to play the type of football we did in semi-final win over Armagh, we would have beaten Kerry. Even O'Dwyer always maintained that is the one Kerry should have lost. Of course Ros got blamed for the foul fest. Kerry then were whiter than white and ref was too naive to see Spillane faking fouls, or catch their pulling and dragging on our forwards. We are a long time waiting to even get a schniff of Sam since.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but he let a howler in at the Canal goal in the 1980 semi-final - our third goal that day. You're not mixing up the two matches per chance?

If we were lucky in the first game in 1977 - and talk of Mickey Freyne's disallowed goal does bring back some memories in that regard - then we paid for it handsomely in the 1980 semi-final. Armagh were coasting in that match through the aerial dominance of Colm McKinstry who was having the game of his life and Brian Hughes at full forward who was roasting Pat Lindsay. Unfortunately the wheels came off big time - McKink went off injured in the third quarter and Brian Hughes went out to midfield and we totally lost our way and ended up in disarray - think we ended up beat by six points (2-20 to 3-11).

As a footnote, each side wore a change kit and both kits were absolutely class!   
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: seafoid on July 06, 2018, 08:12:21 AM
Would any of the Rossies have a video of the Finneran goal that could be posted on youtube?
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Bisbee on July 06, 2018, 11:46:37 AM
Was a great team. At the risk of irking our neighbours during their time of sorrow, they were the best team I ever saw never to win an All-Ireland. Three games in particular were thrown away: Armagh in 77, Dublin 79 and of course the All-Ireland in 1980. We were the architects of our own misfortune. Gay left an awful soft goal in that slipped through his hands in 77, Finneran should have started in 79, even then his goal of the year put us in a winning position. If we continued to play the type of football we did in semi-final win over Armagh, we would have beaten Kerry. Even O'Dwyer always maintained that is the one Kerry should have lost. Of course Ros got blamed for the foul fest. Kerry then were whiter than white and ref was too naive to see Spillane faking fouls, or catch their pulling and dragging on our forwards. We are a long time waiting to even get a schniff of Sam since.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but he let a howler in at the Canal goal in the 1980 semi-final - our third goal that day. You're not mixing up the two matches per chance?

If we were lucky in the first game in 1977 - and talk of Mickey Freyne's disallowed goal does bring back some memories in that regard - then we paid for it handsomely in the 1980 semi-final. Armagh were coasting in that match through the aerial dominance of Colm McKinstry who was having the game of his life and Brian Hughes at full forward who was roasting Pat Lindsay. Unfortunately the wheels came off big time - McKink went off injured in the third quarter and Brian Hughes went out to midfield and we totally lost our way and ended up in disarray - think we ended up beat by six points (2-20 to 3-11).

As a footnote, each side wore a change kit and both kits were absolutely class!
Armagh had a white kit with orange trimmings, Rossies had similar gear to Tipperary.  Both Looked well.
1980 is up there with the most painful of memories as a long term Armagh supporter on a level equal to 2000 or 2005. Martin Murphy was sent off also during that implosion.  Before that we were flying, snipping away at the Rossies, seven points up and looking in no danger until that McKinstry injury.  We had Jim Loughran on the bench who was more than capable of coming on as a direct replacement for McKinstry at midfield, but we went with the most baffling  tactical switch-moving Hughes from full forward to midfield, a move that instantly changed the dynamic of the game.  We had a fair share of luck in 1977-but the 1980 team was probably the best we had until the 1999-2006 squad and really should have won that game
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Bisbee on July 06, 2018, 11:53:54 AM
The spirit of 77 would be enough to carry Armagh through to the Super 8s.  Only worry is whether we have the players of the same abilities?

I have been as critical of McGeeney as anyone else but he has brought this squad to a stage where they are reaching a level of maturity that has been stilted by playing Division 3 for too long.  He has been handicapped by the withdrawals of players for whatever reasons and by injuries, although they affect all teams.

They have the potential to beat Roscommon if McGeeney can resist his usual impulse in bigger games to change the style of play to supposedly deal with the opposition threat like in last year's Tyrone match.  Best to build on the current game plan and go for it against Roscommon, we would rather go down attacking than wilt against a reasonable but flaky Roscommon team with some amended defensive system.

Completely agree on that last point.

I hate defensive football but watching a mimic is worse than watching the real thing
The spirit of 77? you surely mean the luck and incompetent ref of 77 Mr. Collins of westmeath, Mickey Freyne had a perfect goal disallowed for square ball, Armagh got a penalty to bring them back into the game and the foul was clearly yards outside the area if it was a foul at all and if you think im doting just read Eugene McGees book "great all-ireland semi finals" and he says everything I have said here and of course we had the very sporting Armagh manager walking across the field and sledgeing the great Dermott Earley before he took a late 45 when the game was level, to the day he died Dermott would not say what O Neill said to him that day, more class than O Neill I would say.

Still sore about that then. Wasn't there a replay and a chance for the Rossies to right all those wrongs?
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: giveballaghback on July 06, 2018, 12:58:35 PM
The spirit of 77 would be enough to carry Armagh through to the Super 8s.  Only worry is whether we have the players of the same abilities?

I have been as critical of McGeeney as anyone else but he has brought this squad to a stage where they are reaching a level of maturity that has been stilted by playing Division 3 for too long.  He has been handicapped by the withdrawals of players for whatever reasons and by injuries, although they affect all teams.

They have the potential to beat Roscommon if McGeeney can resist his usual impulse in bigger games to change the style of play to supposedly deal with the opposition threat like in last year's Tyrone match.  Best to build on the current game plan and go for it against Roscommon, we would rather go down attacking than wilt against a reasonable but flaky Roscommon team with some amended defensive system.

Completely agree on that last point.

I hate defensive football but watching a mimic is worse than watching the real thing
The spirit of 77? you surely mean the luck and incompetent ref of 77 Mr. Collins of westmeath, Mickey Freyne had a perfect goal disallowed for square ball, Armagh got a penalty to bring them back into the game and the foul was clearly yards outside the area if it was a foul at all and if you think im doting just read Eugene McGees book "great all-ireland semi finals" and he says everything I have said here and of course we had the very sporting Armagh manager walking across the field and sledgeing the great Dermott Earley before he took a late 45 when the game was level, to the day he died Dermott would not say what O Neill said to him that day, more class than O Neill I would say.

Still sore about that then. Wasn't there a replay and a chance for the Rossies to right all those wrongs?
Now the thing about the replay oh yeah, ye had a keeper called Mcalinden who made 2 saves that day that were voted save of the season and 2nd save of the season that year and then proceeded to get lobed from 50 yds out on the cusack sideline by Jimmy Keaveney in the final, now for f... sake  all a long time ago and I was with that great Armagh team on several occasions after games with the Rossies, anyway back to the future, a brave team selected by McStay, should be a proper game between these 2 attack minded footballing teams, best of luck to all and may the best team win and safe travelling to all. supporters.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Maroon Manc on July 06, 2018, 03:51:02 PM
All the pressure on Roscommon as defeat would mean its been a poor season given their easy run to reach the super 8's and would suggest they've gone backwards.

Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: seafoid on July 06, 2018, 04:06:48 PM
All the pressure on Roscommon as defeat would mean its been a poor season given their easy run to reach the super 8's and would suggest they've gone backwards.
I am not sure about that. 
Ros won't be afraid of Armagh and the Super 8 would be a great achievement vs last year.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Captain Obvious on July 06, 2018, 04:22:17 PM
All the pressure on Roscommon as defeat would mean its been a poor season given their easy run to reach the super 8's and would suggest they've gone backwards.
Was beating Galway an easy passage? Kildare found out last year trying to beat Armagh in round 4 is not easy!
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rossfan on July 06, 2018, 04:27:57 PM
A bit worried about this one to be honest.
Good to see Seŗnie hadn't been dumped yet. No sub appearance v Leitrim or Galway suggested he was only making up numbers.
Good to see a defender at no 6 if he's played there.
Hoping for the best but not too confident.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: larryin89 on July 06, 2018, 04:41:33 PM
Best of luck to our neighbours. Nice free flowing team .
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: seafoid on July 06, 2018, 04:48:29 PM
"Coherence or incoherence
Clarity or chaos. "John Trudell

Has to be the Rossies
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Syferus on July 06, 2018, 04:48:43 PM
All the pressure on Roscommon as defeat would mean its been a poor season given their easy run to reach the super 8's and would suggest they've gone backwards.

Donít let anger cloud your judgement.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Therealdonald on July 06, 2018, 04:53:45 PM
All the pressure on Roscommon as defeat would mean its been a poor season given their easy run to reach the super 8's and would suggest they've gone backwards.

Donít let anger cloud your judgement.

Don't understand the little hype around Roscommon. Think they are doomed tomorrow. Spineless when it comes to it. Beating near neighbours once every other year in May and subsequently booking the Gresham for the first Sunday in September doesn't constitute talent. Limited team who (and as a Tyrone man pains me to say this) will be dumped out tomorrow by a harder, sterner better coached Armagh team.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Syferus on July 06, 2018, 04:56:36 PM
A bit worried about this one to be honest.
Good to see Seŗnie hadn't been dumped yet. No sub appearance v Leitrim or Galway suggested he was only making up numbers.
Good to see a defender at no 6 if he's played there.
Hoping for the best but not too confident.


Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: illdecide on July 06, 2018, 05:29:16 PM
All the pressure on Roscommon as defeat would mean its been a poor season given their easy run to reach the super 8's and would suggest they've gone backwards.

Donít let anger cloud your judgement.

Don't understand the little hype around Roscommon. Think they are doomed tomorrow. Spineless when it comes to it. Beating near neighbours once every other year in May and subsequently booking the Gresham for the first Sunday in September doesn't constitute talent. Limited team who (and as a Tyrone man pains me to say this) will be dumped out tomorrow by a harder, sterner better coached Armagh team.

ARE YOU ON DRUGS
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: tonto1888 on July 06, 2018, 05:39:52 PM
Whatever happens tomorrow I hope we are talking about a good game of football and not ref decisions. Who is the ref anyway? As I said before Roscommon play football which is better for us. That said they could play very well and batter us. May the best team win
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rossfan on July 06, 2018, 05:54:43 PM
"Dublin" Joe is ref.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Oraisteach on July 06, 2018, 06:48:59 PM
No word on the Armagh lineup? Wish we had Rafferty. We better not have a wide fest like last week because this Rossie offense will slice through our D, I fear.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Therealdonald on July 06, 2018, 07:48:25 PM
All the pressure on Roscommon as defeat would mean its been a poor season given their easy run to reach the super 8's and would suggest they've gone backwards.

Donít let anger cloud your judgement.

Don't understand the little hype around Roscommon. Think they are doomed tomorrow. Spineless when it comes to it. Beating near neighbours once every other year in May and subsequently booking the Gresham for the first Sunday in September doesn't constitute talent. Limited team who (and as a Tyrone man pains me to say this) will be dumped out tomorrow by a harder, sterner better coached Armagh team.

ARE YOU ON DRUGS

Armagh are a hard team. McGeeney's record in the qualifiers speaks for itself. Stand by the above
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on July 06, 2018, 10:37:12 PM
Beating near neighbours once every other year in May and subsequently booking the Gresham for the first Sunday in September doesn't constitute talent.

 ;D
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Solo_run on July 06, 2018, 10:45:12 PM
Taken from Armagh website:

Blaine Hughes   
Patrick Burns   
Aaron McKay   
Gregory McCabe   
Mark Shields   
Brendan Donaghy   
Aidan Forker   
Charlie Vernon   
Connaire Mackin   
Rory Grugan ( C )   
Jemar Hall   
Niall Grimley   
Ryan McShane   
Andrew Murnin   
Stephen Sheridan   
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: tonto1888 on July 06, 2018, 11:23:22 PM
Taken from Armagh website:

Blaine Hughes   
Patrick Burns   
Aaron McKay   
Gregory McCabe   
Mark Shields   
Brendan Donaghy   
Aidan Forker   
Charlie Vernon   
Connaire Mackin   
Rory Grugan ( C )   
Jemar Hall   
Niall Grimley   
Ryan McShane   
Andrew Murnin   
Stephen Sheridan

Same as last week
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: illdecide on July 07, 2018, 09:06:56 AM
I've a feeling there could be one or two changes to the team at throw in...
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rossfan on July 07, 2018, 11:45:29 AM
Time to hit the road for Portlaoise.
Time to prove we've arrived as a team or that we're just not good enough.
Hoping for the former.
UP ROS.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: seafoid on July 07, 2018, 11:50:36 AM
Time to hit the road for Portlaoise.
Time to prove we've arrived as a team or that we're just not good enough.
Hoping for the former.
UP ROS.
Go n'ťiri libh. I think ye are good enough. And it is McGeeney  😎
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on July 07, 2018, 12:43:22 PM
Torn between watching the Rossies or England today.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Syferus on July 07, 2018, 12:46:01 PM
Torn between watching the Rossies or England today.

Hoping both win Iím sure.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on July 07, 2018, 12:48:05 PM
Torn between watching the Rossies or England today.

Hoping both win Iím sure.

I have my half and half scarf ready to go.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Hound on July 07, 2018, 03:02:20 PM
Looks like Rossies  lost their full forward in the warm up
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: on the sideline on July 07, 2018, 03:26:37 PM
Any of you able to watch this on RT… news now app? Iím getting message saying an unexpected error occurred >:(
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Don Johnson on July 07, 2018, 03:28:58 PM
Could watch right up to throw in then it knocked off. Great.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Stan Laurel on July 07, 2018, 03:31:11 PM
Any of you able to watch this on RT… news now app? Iím getting message saying an unexpected error occurred >:(

It must be blocked I was watching up until the game - muppets!
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Solo_run on July 07, 2018, 03:34:20 PM
Armagh having to work twice as hard for frees
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: hardstation on July 07, 2018, 03:41:46 PM
Could watch right up to throw in then it knocked off. Great.
Watching on TV but it is fcukin SD! Joke!
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: smelmoth on July 07, 2018, 03:43:32 PM
Great game.

Tyrone man beside me confused by what he is seeing.

Think we need to be a bit more savvy with short term tactics when we concede a few scores on the bounce. Roscommon got their goal out of doing this
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Zulu on July 07, 2018, 03:44:03 PM
Fine half of football. Wouldn't agree Armagh are not getting soft frees. Thought they got a their fair share too. Both teams going at it and some great scores though you couldn't see either team trouble the best based on this game.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rudi on July 07, 2018, 03:46:00 PM
Roscommon should be home and board. 5 goals
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Syferus on July 07, 2018, 03:46:36 PM
Fine half of football. Wouldn't agree Armagh are not getting soft frees. Thought they got a their fair share too. Both teams going at it and some great scores though you couldn't see either team trouble the best based on this game.

Go back to bed, Dublin arenít playing till next weekend.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: our_fella on July 07, 2018, 03:47:12 PM
3 weekends in row of boiling weather looks to be taking its tole on Armagh. Be prepared to see long balls in
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Zulu on July 07, 2018, 03:55:20 PM
Fine half of football. Wouldn't agree Armagh are not getting soft frees. Thought they got a their fair share too. Both teams going at it and some great scores though you couldn't see either team trouble the best based on this game.

Go back to bed, Dublin arenít playing till next weekend.

We all know sense and you are very uncomfortable bedfellows but try taking one day off from being the boards outstanding moron. Perhaps you've been drinking but if so stay away from the laptop for all our sanities.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: JoG2 on July 07, 2018, 03:55:37 PM
Very enjoyable half of football. Armagh needy tighten up a fair bit. Enda Smith fairly 'stepped' it up in the last 10 mins of the half.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rudi on July 07, 2018, 04:04:31 PM
Ref keeping Armagh in game
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rudi on July 07, 2018, 04:06:14 PM
Armagh Joe
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Zulu on July 07, 2018, 04:07:51 PM
Justice served there. That wasn't a penalty at all.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Harold Disgracey on July 07, 2018, 04:09:49 PM
No penalty. Roscommon Joe back again now.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Solo_run on July 07, 2018, 04:10:20 PM
Armagh are just not bothering in defence....it's been shite

Ros have this
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Stan Laurel on July 07, 2018, 04:11:59 PM
Justice served there. That wasn't a penalty at all.

Radio said it was a foot block, which would be a penalty.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Zulu on July 07, 2018, 04:12:44 PM
Jesus Joe must have money on the accumulated score as he is giving a lot of soft scorable frees now.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Zulu on July 07, 2018, 04:14:31 PM
Justice served there. That wasn't a penalty at all.

Radio said it was a foot block, which would be a penalty.

You can block with the foot just not in a manner that would be dangerous to the kicker. Like the foot block in the first half this one wasn't close to the kicker so shouldn't have been a penalty IMO.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Lar Naparka on July 07, 2018, 04:14:55 PM
Can'r find a stream anywhere so I don't know what's going on but hup the Rossies anyway!
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: hardstation on July 07, 2018, 04:16:14 PM
Can'r find a stream anywhere so I don't know what's going on but hup the Rossies anyway!
It is on tv.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Mayo Border on July 07, 2018, 04:23:56 PM
4 ahead should have palmed it over to go 5 up. Instead blasted and missed. Ross the better team and appear fitter.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Farrandeelin on July 07, 2018, 04:25:33 PM
RTE news now Lar 2 in it. 7 mins left.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on July 07, 2018, 04:37:17 PM
Legs really went for Armagh there coming down the stretch. Couldnít track runners any longer.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: seafoid on July 07, 2018, 04:41:22 PM
70+7 Roscommon 2-22 Armagh 1-19

Absolutely delighted for the neighbours. The day Ros stood up to be counted .
Armagh have too many structural problems.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Owen Brannigan on July 07, 2018, 04:41:48 PM
Well done Roscommon, Armagh defence couldn't hold them.

Fair play to Armagh, scoring 1-19 would win most matches.

Fair play to McGeeney letting them play an attacking game.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Farrandeelin on July 07, 2018, 04:44:04 PM
Well done Ro. Fitness showed in the last 5 minutes. Must have been a good game. Only caught last 10 mins of it.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: smelmoth on July 07, 2018, 04:45:15 PM
Roscommon fellas couldnít believe we let them have the short kick outs. Said it was a well known problem for them.

Something to reflect on
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: GaillimhIarthair on July 07, 2018, 04:46:49 PM
Strong finish from the Rossies and fully deserved the win.  A very open game of football and Enda Smith really led them through the final minutes.  However, Ros will really need to tighten up defensively or they will struggle badly in the Super 8s, way too open at back during most of todayís game and were somewhat lucky that Armagh were not more clinical.

Didnít think Joe was good today - gave some very soft frees and not convinced it was a penalty either.

Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Solo_run on July 07, 2018, 04:47:57 PM
Neither team had a defence and Armagh offered very little to the tackling. All Armagh seemed to do was track the player back and do nothing.

Congratulations to Rosscommon can't have any complaints about the result
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on July 07, 2018, 04:49:40 PM
Mikey is quite good as a pundit. Very fair. Hopefully he gets more opportunities.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: armaghniac on July 07, 2018, 05:14:34 PM
Armagh had enough left for a storming finish last week, but not today.
Armagh tackling skills have been noted often enough

Good luck to the Rossies in the Super 8.

Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Syferus on July 07, 2018, 05:27:24 PM
High octane stuff, if only all games were played in that spirit.

Enda Smith was unbelievable. Such a classy footballer. The Super 8s are the perfect stage for this team to develop on.

That cheer after the final goal, though. Something else.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Westside on July 07, 2018, 05:32:30 PM
Serious performance from the Rossies. Much happier to see them in the super 8s than Armagh. They're a credit.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: regal on July 07, 2018, 06:10:38 PM
Well done to Roscommon, well deserved. Armagh ran out of bodies.

Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Jinxy on July 07, 2018, 06:17:47 PM
Well deserved win for the Rossies.
Made me nervous though when they started fannying around in their own half when there was only a couple in it with normal time almost up.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Syferus on July 07, 2018, 06:24:44 PM
Well deserved win for the Rossies.
Made me nervous though when they started fannying around in their own half when there was only a couple in it with normal time almost up.

Thereís no fun if you win a game early.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: bennydorano on July 07, 2018, 06:35:36 PM
Honourable defeat was probably the best result for Armagh if we're brutally honest, the S8 would have been a slaughtering session. Roscommon are better and further along in their development, they're ready for a cut at it. We're once again in perma-rebuilding mode with a chink of light ahead.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Oraisteach on July 07, 2018, 06:43:40 PM
Roscommon forwards were lethal. We could have conceded 5 goals today. Rossies were worthy winners, but couldnít help thinking that Jamie Clarke would have torn up that defense as opposed to the typical blanket formation he has faced in the past.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Syferus on July 07, 2018, 06:53:57 PM
Roscommon forwards were lethal. We could have conceded 5 goals today. Rossies were worthy winners, but couldnít help thinking that Jamie Clarke would have torn up that defense as opposed to the typical blanket formation he has faced in the past.

Jamie had bother dealing with Leitrim backs in the New York game, in fairness. We showed in the last two CFs we can play more defensively but we always fancy ourselves to win a free-flowing open game of football like that.

Armagh play a lovely style of football too, I hope they donít see this as a failure of their style because if football has a future itís this type of football and not the dull, dour stuff than the likes of Tyrone and Fermanagh typify. People just donít care to watch or support that.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: yellowcard on July 07, 2018, 07:21:28 PM
Excellent game of football from 2 sides who came to play positive stuff. Armagh were excellent in the first 20 minutes but truth be told they were second best for much of rest of the game. Nobody could fault the performance though, yes they missed a penalty and a few other chances but Roscommon equally missed about 4 clear goal chances of their own.

Murnin was brilliant in the first half but faded whilst Forker also started like a house on fire but died out of the game also. I thought Vernon and Grugan were very good whilst Hall has improved a lot over the last few matches and has shown enough to suggest he has a future at this level. Our half back line got cleaned out by a very impressive Roscommon three quarter line who must have scored about 2-12 between them. Physically Armagh are not as well developed as other top counties players and the substitutes reflected this. Overall with the players McGeeney has at his disposal he done a good job to get promotion and reach the last 12. The one disappointment again was the Ulster championship match.

Roscommon have a very good side and I was impressed with them today, they can be competitive in the super 8s and could be a dark horse to make a semi final if they can tighten up defensively.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Captain Obvious on July 07, 2018, 07:27:36 PM
Armagh ran out of road in the end but can take some consolation on playing their part in one of the games of years. About re-grouping now and aiming for division one football. Well done to Roscommon the best team on day but Tyrone next won't leave themselves wide open in defence like Armagh did today.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 07, 2018, 07:51:51 PM
Congrats to Roscommon deserving winners and if they weren't so wasteful on the many other goal chances created they could have won by 10+ points. Can't see them with such a loose defence winning any of their last 8 games but for them it's about getting there a testing themselves against top 8 teams so job done there.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Hound on July 07, 2018, 08:15:11 PM
Credit to both teams really. Lots of positives for Armagh to build on next season.

The game was there for the Rossies to throw away in the last few minutes, if they were that type of team, but they absolutely werenít and were super in the crucial dying minutes. Well done to the Rossies!
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: tonto1888 on July 07, 2018, 08:41:39 PM
High octane stuff, if only all games were played in that spirit.

Enda Smith was unbelievable. Such a classy footballer. The Super 8s are the perfect stage for this team to develop on.

That cheer after the final goal, though. Something else.

Which number was smith?

Great game and although we lost I cane out of the game feeling positive. We are building. A lot to work on still but I am positive overall. Good luck to Roscommon good forward
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Syferus on July 07, 2018, 09:03:43 PM
High octane stuff, if only all games were played in that spirit.

Enda Smith was unbelievable. Such a classy footballer. The Super 8s are the perfect stage for this team to develop on.

That cheer after the final goal, though. Something else.

Which number was smith?

Great game and although we lost I cane out of the game feeling positive. We are building. A lot to work on still but I am positive overall. Good luck to Roscommon good forward

12
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: illdecide on July 07, 2018, 09:23:57 PM
Armagh had nothing left at 70 mins, the successive games took their toll on the players who gave their all. Was a decent performance where that extra bit of quality was missing. Roscommon deserved their win and the very best of luck in S8's. That was some roar all right when last goal went in, good game

Someone mentioned Charlie Vernon played well whereas I thought he was poor, just shows you how different people see and read games... Smith (12) was lethal and we couldn't handle him at all... Serious player with great pace.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: keeperlit on July 07, 2018, 09:42:17 PM
Armagh had nothing left at 70 mins, the successive games took their toll on the players who gave their all. Was a decent performance where that extra bit of quality was missing. Roscommon deserved their win and the very best of luck in S8's. That was some roar all right when last goal went in, good game

Someone mentioned Charlie Vernon played well whereas I thought he was poor, just shows you how different people see and read games... Smith (12) was lethal and we couldn't handle him at all... Serious player with great pace.

Would agree about Charlie. Real trier but thought he was burned for pace a few times and also the pass he giveaway for Roscommon first goal was criminal. Thought Enda smith was very quiet in first half but definitely seemed to step it up in second half and was immense.

Did Armagh tire or did Roscommon move up a gear?

Would usually be a critic of joe mcqullian but I thought he was quite good today (canít comment on penalty incident until I see it again) with a few marginal calls going Armaghís way and a few going Roscommonís way with Armagh maybe coming out slightly better off. Definitely was as bad as the Roscommon people around me at the match were saying!
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: tonto1888 on July 07, 2018, 09:52:41 PM
High octane stuff, if only all games were played in that spirit.

Enda Smith was unbelievable. Such a classy footballer. The Super 8s are the perfect stage for this team to develop on.

That cheer after the final goal, though. Something else.

Which number was smith?

Great game and although we lost I cane out of the game feeling positive. We are building. A lot to work on still but I am positive overall. Good luck to Roscommon good forward

12

Aye. He had a very good game.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: tonto1888 on July 07, 2018, 09:57:53 PM
Roscommon forwards were lethal. We could have conceded 5 goals today. Rossies were worthy winners, but couldnít help thinking that Jamie Clarke would have torn up that defense as opposed to the typical blanket formation he has faced in the past.

Jamie had bother dealing with Leitrim backs in the New York game, in fairness. We showed in the last two CFs we can play more defensively but we always fancy ourselves to win a free-flowing open game of football like that.

Armagh play a lovely style of football too, I hope they donít see this as a failure of their style because if football has a future itís this type of football and not the dull, dour stuff than the likes of Tyrone and Fermanagh typify. People just donít care to watch or support that.

To be fair there would be a hell of a difference between Clarke in that game and Clarke had he been with us all year. He wasnít tho and more than likely wonít be again. Regardless we can go into division 2 confident
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rossfan on July 07, 2018, 09:59:20 PM
I'm still not the better of the game especially those closing minutes when we pulled away to win.
We're in the big League now so hopefully we put up a credible shoeing.
I'm told it was an excellent game on TV .
When you're in the middle of it and it's nip and tuck it's hard to be sure what it's like.
Big performances by so many players at vital times but I think Cathal Cregg and Enda when he woke up (about 20 minutes in) were our top men.
Mind you Cathal better leave the goal scoring attempts to Enda in future.
Big shout to John McManus too who was to the fore when we weren't going so well in the 1st half.
If I was neutral I'm sure I'd have admired the Armagh kicking game -lovely to watch but couldn't appreciate it today.
Our defence loose and shaky as usual.
On to the Quarter Final series now and 2 visits at least to Croker.
Be great if we caneed make it 3 OR EVEN FOUR :o.
Let's enjoy becoming part of the elite and get ready for Saturday.
I suppose we'll  hardly score 2-22 against the mean Tyrones.

One last thing - some grand people from Armagh beside us. Pity they didn't get Cork or Laois.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Throw ball on July 07, 2018, 10:17:41 PM
A great game of football today. For the most part both teams tried to play football and it was worth watching. McQuillan gave a lot of soft frees I thought which made defending difficult. Towards the end i thought that bit if luck Armagh needed - and probably got last week - deserted them. The legs seemed to go and Roscommon deserved to win. Hopefully the lack of depth in the Armagh panel can be sorted next year with a few returnees , newbees and development of the younger players.

Best of luck to Roscommon in the super 8s. Maybe if they can beat Tyrone teams will move away from the defensive counter attacking crap.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: oliverkelly on July 07, 2018, 10:39:11 PM
I'm still not the better of the game especially those closing minutes when we pulled away to win.
We're in the big League now so hopefully we put up a credible shoeing.
I'm told it was an excellent game on TV .
When you're in the middle of it and it's nip and tuck it's hard to be sure what it's like.
Big performances by so many players at vital times but I think Cathal Cregg and Enda when he woke up (about 20 minutes in) were our top men.
Mind you Cathal better leave the goal scoring attempts to Enda in future.
Big shout to John McManus too who was to the fore when we weren't going so well in the 1st half.
If I was neutral I'm sure I'd have admired the Armagh kicking game -lovely to watch but couldn't appreciate it today.
Our defence loose and shaky as usual.
On to the Quarter Final series now and 2 visits at least to Croker.
Be great if we caneed make it 3 OR EVEN FOUR :o.
Let's enjoy becoming part of the elite and get ready for Saturday.
I suppose we'll  hardly score 2-22 against the mean Tyrones.

One last thing - some grand people from Armagh beside us. Pity they didn't get Cork or Laois.

Excellent post agree with everything you said. Delighted with the win. Armagh should be proud came to play football like it should be played
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: weareros on July 07, 2018, 11:56:22 PM
Wonderful day in OíMoore Park today that will live long in the memory. Hard luck to Armagh who contributed to this great game and the supporters who sat beside me were so gracious in defeat and even stayed for the next game despite a long, hard auld journey back when you lose a thriller. Have to say I found it uncomfortable for long spells in particular midway through first half when Armagh looked the likely winner playing lovely direct football and it seemed every thing they kicked was destined to sail over the bar. Fortunately McStay started Cathal who greatly troubled a number of markers and really kept us in it during that dodgy period, while Enda was a colossus in second half with spectacular catches and his runs through the Armagh defense. I thought  all our forwards had great games and ran themselves into the  ground, did a lot of tracking back in tough conditions. Hopefully we are not a spent force for next weekend ala Mayo replay  as it is becoming increasingly obvious this will be the only competitive R4 game, perhaps another nail in the coffin for the provincials.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: mackers on July 08, 2018, 12:00:37 AM
A great game of football today. For the most part both teams tried to play football and it was worth watching. McQuillan gave a lot of soft frees I thought which made defending difficult. Towards the end i thought that bit if luck Armagh needed - and probably got last week - deserted them. The legs seemed to go and Roscommon deserved to win. Hopefully the lack of depth in the Armagh panel can be sorted next year with a few returnees , newbees and development of the younger players.

Best of luck to Roscommon in the super 8s. Maybe if they can beat Tyrone teams will move away from the defensive counter attacking crap.
Iíd agree with all that Throw Ball. Roscommon played some great football and Iíll be very interested to see how they get on against Tyrone next week. Theyíve no need to fear them and hope they get rewarded for their adventurous play.
We died with our boots on. We played some really good football but run out of steam and were beaten by a better team. Roscommmons fans brought great passion and atmosphere. Could give dialled down on the booing of the ref at times though.
Fair play to Geezer for letting the younger lads at it again. We have something to build on but we have to get everyone back on board to compete with Donegal and Kildare etc next year. We need to learn how to cope with blanket defences to progress in Ulster otherwise weíll be in the qualifiers early doors again.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Solo_run on July 08, 2018, 12:25:43 AM
The Roscommon ones are quite likeable chaps in winning. I was dreading the ribbing on here after the loss on my 30th birthday but I think you have found yourselves a new fan.

Good luck to Ross in the super 8s
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Syferus on July 08, 2018, 12:28:22 AM
The Roscommon ones are quite likeable chaps in winning. I was dreading the ribbing on here after the loss on my 30th birthday but I think you have found yourselves a new fan.

Good luck to Ross in the super 8s

Armagh and Fermanagh people are the only Ulster lads we can stand.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rossfan on July 08, 2018, 12:40:40 AM
We like the Cyavans too seeing we always bate them.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Syferus on July 08, 2018, 12:43:06 AM
We like the Cyavans too seeing we always bate them.

Itchy doesnít seem to like us, though.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: oliverkelly on July 08, 2018, 01:14:05 AM
A great game of football today. For the most part both teams tried to play football and it was worth watching. McQuillan gave a lot of soft frees I thought which made defending difficult. Towards the end i thought that bit if luck Armagh needed - and probably got last week - deserted them. The legs seemed to go and Roscommon deserved to win. Hopefully the lack of depth in the Armagh panel can be sorted next year with a few returnees , newbees and development of the younger players.

Best of luck to Roscommon in the super 8s. Maybe if they can beat Tyrone teams will move away from the defensive counter attacking crap.
Iíd agree with all that Throw Ball. Roscommon played some great football and Iíll be very interested to see how they get on against Tyrone next week. Theyíve no need to fear them and hope they get rewarded for their adventurous play.
We died with our boots on. We played some really good football but run out of steam and were beaten by a better team. Roscommmons fans brought great passion and atmosphere. Could give dialled down on the booing of the ref at times though.
Fair play to Geezer for letting the younger lads at it again. We have something to build on but we have to get everyone back on board to compete with Donegal and Kildare etc next year. We need to learn how to cope with blanket defences to progress in Ulster otherwise weíll be in the qualifiers early doors again.
I agree i usually dont like to hear booing pf the ref but he was  a disgrace today. Gave Armagh some ridiculous stuff and in a tight game when fans see there team been rode there obviously going to vent there disgust. Thankfully it had no relevance to the result. The penalty decision was a joke and im sure when Joe watches it back he will be fairly embarrassed with himself especially when he see the first play of the game when there was a clear and obvious footblock. He had a nightmare and gave Armagh some pathetic frees even when i came home i watched the game back and it was that bad Dessie Dolan and O'Rourke felt the need in the studio to commemt on him favouring Armagh which i honestly have never heard before from pundits who never critise refs.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Baggio90 on July 08, 2018, 01:34:35 AM
A great game of football today. For the most part both teams tried to play football and it was worth watching. McQuillan gave a lot of soft frees I thought which made defending difficult. Towards the end i thought that bit if luck Armagh needed - and probably got last week - deserted them. The legs seemed to go and Roscommon deserved to win. Hopefully the lack of depth in the Armagh panel can be sorted next year with a few returnees , newbees and development of the younger players.

Best of luck to Roscommon in the super 8s. Maybe if they can beat Tyrone teams will move away from the defensive counter attacking crap.
Iíd agree with all that Throw Ball. Roscommon played some great football and Iíll be very interested to see how they get on against Tyrone next week. Theyíve no need to fear them and hope they get rewarded for their adventurous play.
We died with our boots on. We played some really good football but run out of steam and were beaten by a better team. Roscommmons fans brought great passion and atmosphere. Could give dialled down on the booing of the ref at times though.
Fair play to Geezer for letting the younger lads at it again. We have something to build on but we have to get everyone back on board to compete with Donegal and Kildare etc next year. We need to learn how to cope with blanket defences to progress in Ulster otherwise weíll be in the qualifiers early doors again.
I agree i usually dont like to hear booing pf the ref but he was  a disgrace today. Gave Armagh some ridiculous stuff and in a tight game when fans see there team been rode there obviously going to vent there disgust. Thankfully it had no relevance to the result. The penalty decision was a joke and im sure when Joe watches it back he will be fairly embarrassed with himself especially when he see the first play of the game when there was a clear and obvious footblock. He had a nightmare and gave Armagh some pathetic frees even when i came home i watched the game back and it was that bad Dessie Dolan and O'Rourke felt the need in the studio to commemt on him favouring Armagh which i honestly have never heard before from pundits who never critise refs.

He made a number of terrible decisions for both sides.

Cathal Cregg got a free in after he elbowed Mark Shields in the face in the first half. He was lucky he didn't get a red never mind a free in.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Syferus on July 08, 2018, 01:39:54 AM
A great game of football today. For the most part both teams tried to play football and it was worth watching. McQuillan gave a lot of soft frees I thought which made defending difficult. Towards the end i thought that bit if luck Armagh needed - and probably got last week - deserted them. The legs seemed to go and Roscommon deserved to win. Hopefully the lack of depth in the Armagh panel can be sorted next year with a few returnees , newbees and development of the younger players.

Best of luck to Roscommon in the super 8s. Maybe if they can beat Tyrone teams will move away from the defensive counter attacking crap.
Iíd agree with all that Throw Ball. Roscommon played some great football and Iíll be very interested to see how they get on against Tyrone next week. Theyíve no need to fear them and hope they get rewarded for their adventurous play.
We died with our boots on. We played some really good football but run out of steam and were beaten by a better team. Roscommmons fans brought great passion and atmosphere. Could give dialled down on the booing of the ref at times though.
Fair play to Geezer for letting the younger lads at it again. We have something to build on but we have to get everyone back on board to compete with Donegal and Kildare etc next year. We need to learn how to cope with blanket defences to progress in Ulster otherwise weíll be in the qualifiers early doors again.
I agree i usually dont like to hear booing pf the ref but he was  a disgrace today. Gave Armagh some ridiculous stuff and in a tight game when fans see there team been rode there obviously going to vent there disgust. Thankfully it had no relevance to the result. The penalty decision was a joke and im sure when Joe watches it back he will be fairly embarrassed with himself especially when he see the first play of the game when there was a clear and obvious footblock. He had a nightmare and gave Armagh some pathetic frees even when i came home i watched the game back and it was that bad Dessie Dolan and O'Rourke felt the need in the studio to commemt on him favouring Armagh which i honestly have never heard before from pundits who never critise refs.

He made a number of terrible decisions for both sides.

Cathal Cregg got a free in after he elbowed Mark Shields in the face in the first half. He was lucky he didn't get a red never mind a free in.

If you genuinely think he didnít ride Roscommon in that match Iím speechless. Stop trying to draw false equivalence between a few anecdotal fŁcks ups at one end and a catalogue of them at the other.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 08, 2018, 01:44:46 AM
Let me guess Baggio90 is reincarnation of Il Bomber Destro?
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Throw ball on July 08, 2018, 01:49:27 AM
A great game of football today. For the most part both teams tried to play football and it was worth watching. McQuillan gave a lot of soft frees I thought which made defending difficult. Towards the end i thought that bit if luck Armagh needed - and probably got last week - deserted them. The legs seemed to go and Roscommon deserved to win. Hopefully the lack of depth in the Armagh panel can be sorted next year with a few returnees , newbees and development of the younger players.

Best of luck to Roscommon in the super 8s. Maybe if they can beat Tyrone teams will move away from the defensive counter attacking crap.
Iíd agree with all that Throw Ball. Roscommon played some great football and Iíll be very interested to see how they get on against Tyrone next week. Theyíve no need to fear them and hope they get rewarded for their adventurous play.
We died with our boots on. We played some really good football but run out of steam and were beaten by a better team. Roscommmons fans brought great passion and atmosphere. Could give dialled down on the booing of the ref at times though.
Fair play to Geezer for letting the younger lads at it again. We have something to build on but we have to get everyone back on board to compete with Donegal and Kildare etc next year. We need to learn how to cope with blanket defences to progress in Ulster otherwise weíll be in the qualifiers early doors again.
I agree i usually dont like to hear booing pf the ref but he was  a disgrace today. Gave Armagh some ridiculous stuff and in a tight game when fans see there team been rode there obviously going to vent there disgust. Thankfully it had no relevance to the result. The penalty decision was a joke and im sure when Joe watches it back he will be fairly embarrassed with himself especially when he see the first play of the game when there was a clear and obvious footblock. He had a nightmare and gave Armagh some pathetic frees even when i came home i watched the game back and it was that bad Dessie Dolan and O'Rourke felt the need in the studio to commemt on him favouring Armagh which i honestly have never heard before from pundits who never critise refs.

He made a number of terrible decisions for both sides.

Cathal Cregg got a free in after he elbowed Mark Shields in the face in the first half. He was lucky he didn't get a red never mind a free in.

If you genuinely think he didnít ride Roscommon in that match Iím speechless. Stop trying to draw false equilevence between a few anecdotal fŁcks ups at one end and a catalogue of them at the other.

I have not seen the game again but I thought he gave Roscommon a lot of soft frees when I was at the game. One in particular sticks in my mind. Armagh had got back to 1 or 2 points behind and from the Roscommon kick out he gave them a soft free which led to a score. This was despite the fact that the Roscommon no.5 had the Armagh no. 25 in a headlock as he tried to stop him running for the break ball. I was also amazed how Armagh players managed to get yellow and black cards when Roscommon players got nothing for similar fouls. Any Armagh supporter will tell you Joe McQuillan never does us any favours.
Maybe we should all just take of our blinkers, forget about the referee and settle for it being a good match with the best team winning.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Syferus on July 08, 2018, 01:55:40 AM
Let me guess Baggio90 is reincarnation of Il Bomber Destro?

Looked back at his post history and thatís a very good shout.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Solo_run on July 08, 2018, 02:13:24 AM
The Roscommon ones are quite likeable chaps in winning. I was dreading the ribbing on here after the loss on my 30th birthday but I think you have found yourselves a new fan.

Good luck to Ross in the super 8s

Armagh and Fermanagh people are the only Ulster lads we can stand.

Fair play Syferus

I will be supporting Ross. I was hoping there wouldn't be much slagging but you are good winners. Hope you go far
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Manning18 on July 08, 2018, 02:25:15 AM
The Roscommon ones are quite likeable chaps in winning. I was dreading the ribbing on here after the loss on my 30th birthday but I think you have found yourselves a new fan.

Good luck to Ross in the super 8s

Have always found their regular supporters to be spot on, in person at least. Their bandwagoners though are worse than most, as the clowns behind the goal at the Connacht Final or the Mayo games last year gave testament to
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Syferus on July 08, 2018, 02:34:14 AM
The Roscommon ones are quite likeable chaps in winning. I was dreading the ribbing on here after the loss on my 30th birthday but I think you have found yourselves a new fan.

Good luck to Ross in the super 8s

Have always found their regular supporters to be spot on, in person at least. Their bandwagoners though are worse than most, as the clowns behind the goal at the Connacht Final or the Mayo games last year gave testament to

You seem to get much more agitated by Roscommon doing well than you are excited by Galway doing well. Very sad to see someone overcome with such hate.

Also, a Galway man talking about bandwagoners is objectively funny in how little perspective it shows.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: tonto1888 on July 08, 2018, 08:42:00 AM
I really donít want to talk about the ref but if anyone thinks he favoured Armagh they need their heads looking at. I guess we all see the same things very differently
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Orchard park on July 08, 2018, 09:15:33 AM
The Roscommon ones are quite likeable chaps in winning. I was dreading the ribbing on here after the loss on my 30th birthday but I think you have found yourselves a new fan.

Good luck to Ross in the super 8s

Armagh and Fermanagh people are the only Ulster lads we can stand.

Fair play Syferus

I will be supporting Ross. I was hoping there wouldn't be much slagging but you are good winners. Hope you go far


Syferus

Replace we with you..... most Rossies have no issue with supporters from any  of the 32  counties and beyond...
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Itchy on July 08, 2018, 09:24:53 AM
I really donít want to talk about the ref but if anyone thinks he favoured Armagh they need their heads looking at. I guess we all see the same things very differently

I watched as a neutral. Biggest slice of luck either team got was a very harsh peno and Armagh missed it. For me Ros were much better team but for some reason they started messing around in their back line and let Armagh back into it. Saying that I think Ros have gone backwards this year as Armagh aren't up to much. I think they will really struggle in super 8s if they don't get another 20% performance
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Syferus on July 08, 2018, 09:50:21 AM
The Roscommon ones are quite likeable chaps in winning. I was dreading the ribbing on here after the loss on my 30th birthday but I think you have found yourselves a new fan.

Good luck to Ross in the super 8s

Armagh and Fermanagh people are the only Ulster lads we can stand.

Fair play Syferus

I will be supporting Ross. I was hoping there wouldn't be much slagging but you are good winners. Hope you go far


Syferus

Replace we with you..... most Rossies have no issue with supporters from any  of the 32  counties and beyond...

Stop talking nonsense.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Baggio90 on July 08, 2018, 10:45:14 AM
A great game of football today. For the most part both teams tried to play football and it was worth watching. McQuillan gave a lot of soft frees I thought which made defending difficult. Towards the end i thought that bit if luck Armagh needed - and probably got last week - deserted them. The legs seemed to go and Roscommon deserved to win. Hopefully the lack of depth in the Armagh panel can be sorted next year with a few returnees , newbees and development of the younger players.

Best of luck to Roscommon in the super 8s. Maybe if they can beat Tyrone teams will move away from the defensive counter attacking crap.
Iíd agree with all that Throw Ball. Roscommon played some great football and Iíll be very interested to see how they get on against Tyrone next week. Theyíve no need to fear them and hope they get rewarded for their adventurous play.
We died with our boots on. We played some really good football but run out of steam and were beaten by a better team. Roscommmons fans brought great passion and atmosphere. Could give dialled down on the booing of the ref at times though.
Fair play to Geezer for letting the younger lads at it again. We have something to build on but we have to get everyone back on board to compete with Donegal and Kildare etc next year. We need to learn how to cope with blanket defences to progress in Ulster otherwise weíll be in the qualifiers early doors again.
I agree i usually dont like to hear booing pf the ref but he was  a disgrace today. Gave Armagh some ridiculous stuff and in a tight game when fans see there team been rode there obviously going to vent there disgust. Thankfully it had no relevance to the result. The penalty decision was a joke and im sure when Joe watches it back he will be fairly embarrassed with himself especially when he see the first play of the game when there was a clear and obvious footblock. He had a nightmare and gave Armagh some pathetic frees even when i came home i watched the game back and it was that bad Dessie Dolan and O'Rourke felt the need in the studio to commemt on him favouring Armagh which i honestly have never heard before from pundits who never critise refs.

He made a number of terrible decisions for both sides.

Cathal Cregg got a free in after he elbowed Mark Shields in the face in the first half. He was lucky he didn't get a red never mind a free in.

If you genuinely think he didnít ride Roscommon in that match Iím speechless. Stop trying to draw false equivalence between a few anecdotal fŁcks ups at one end and a catalogue of them at the other.

I genuinely think he didn't ride either side and unlike you I watched the game objectively with no horse in it. The penalty call was a poor one but other than that Roscommon got the rub of the green with the decisions, the Roscommon no 4 spent his afternoon pulling and dragging out of Aidan Forker, he was pulled up a number of times for frees and wasn't booked yet I think it was McCabe and Shields who were booked after their first infraction. I think Roscommon generally got away with much more fouling around the middle of the pitch and were very undisciplined in their swarm tackling.

That's not to mention the time Cathal Cregg elbowed Mark Shields in the face and got a free in for it, when he was lucky he didn't get the line.

Rory Grugan also looked to have a good point waved wide.

Overall Roscommon were good value for their win but the referee did not impact them at all. Maybe you need to get away from an attitude where you expect the referee to pull on a Roscommon jersey because there will always be a bogey man if that's the attitude.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on July 08, 2018, 11:34:37 AM
Objectively.... even Dessie and OíRourke though the ref was giving softer frees to Armagh. I also believe he made two mistakes with the advantage rule. Anyway it made no difference to the match.

Edit: I donít realize who the poster is. Objectivity is not possible.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Baggio90 on July 08, 2018, 11:48:53 AM
Objectively.... even Dessie and OíRourke though the ref was giving softer frees to Armagh. I also believe he made two mistakes with the advantage rule. Anyway it made no difference to the match.

Edit: I donít realize who the poster is. Objectivity is not possible.

Colm O'Rourke is hardly objective, his hate for Northern teams is well known.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Throw ball on July 08, 2018, 11:54:01 AM
On the subject of fouling I feel many of the frees given against Armagh over the season have been because they so often tackle man to man when a free is easier to spot. Most other teams have adopted the swarm tackle with numerous bodies around the man on the ball. Unless the referee has numerous eyes this IMHO can mean the defenders can get more physical and even if a free is given it is harder for the referee to issue a card. My problem with this form of tackling is that is also hides a lot of sly tackles and discourages skilful players trying things - just pass it and keep things simple. I always prefer referees who give the advantage to the player in possession.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Timís Hero on July 08, 2018, 12:05:14 PM
If ever there was an argument for a tiered championship this match was it. We got a great game against 2 evenly matched teams , however they are so far off the top table it is shocking . Two teams would be intermediate in a county championship scenario.No disrespect to Roscommon but they will do well not to be beat by 10 points in each super 8 game. McStay and Roscommon though has a plan and see the 3 games as a progression to Div 1 next year and then come back stronger to championship next year. Armagh however despite the best endeavours of a number of players are back to square one next year with no idea of who will play who wonít , will management be retained or let go after another poor day at the office yesterday !!!!!!
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Baggio90 on July 08, 2018, 12:26:01 PM
If ever there was an argument for a tiered championship this match was it. We got a great game against 2 evenly matched teams , however they are so far off the top table it is shocking . Two teams would be intermediate in a county championship scenario.No disrespect to Roscommon but they will do well not to be beat by 10 points in each super 8 game. McStay and Roscommon though has a plan and see the 3 games as a progression to Div 1 next year and then come back stronger to championship next year. Armagh however despite the best endeavours of a number of players are back to square one next year with no idea of who will play who wonít , will management be retained or let go after another poor day at the office yesterday !!!!!!

I think Armagh did well this year. They have a serious amount of important players who are injured or opted out for the year gone by. If they were to get the vast bulk of these lads back I don't see any reason why they couldn't push for Div 1 promotion next year.

I think it's disappointing at the minute how Armagh, Cavan and Derry have so many important players who have not made themselves available. There was an Ulster title there this year that these three sides had a genuine chance of winning if they had their full compliment.


Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Syferus on July 08, 2018, 12:31:28 PM
If ever there was an argument for a tiered championship this match was it. We got a great game against 2 evenly matched teams , however they are so far off the top table it is shocking . Two teams would be intermediate in a county championship scenario.No disrespect to Roscommon but they will do well not to be beat by 10 points in each super 8 game. McStay and Roscommon though has a plan and see the 3 games as a progression to Div 1 next year and then come back stronger to championship next year. Armagh however despite the best endeavours of a number of players are back to square one next year with no idea of who will play who wonít , will management be retained or let go after another poor day at the office yesterday !!!!!!

These burner WUM accounts are so tiring.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Timís Hero on July 08, 2018, 12:38:54 PM
Which came first withdrawal of players which led to mediocrity or acceptance of mediocrity which led to withdrawal of players, it is no coincidence that Armagh , Derry and Cavan all adopted defensive systems inspired by Jim McGuinnessís Donegal , this then led to talented forwards in particular becoming redundant and frustrated and eventually coming to the realisation that an absolute dummy could perform the role they were asked to perform and eventually left panel when it became apparent the system was more important than talent .
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Baggio90 on July 08, 2018, 12:45:17 PM
Which came first withdrawal of players which led to mediocrity or acceptance of mediocrity which led to withdrawal of players, it is no coincidence that Armagh , Derry and Cavan all adopted defensive systems inspired by Jim McGuinnessís Donegal , this then led to talented forwards in particular becoming redundant and frustrated and eventually coming to the realisation that an absolute dummy could perform the role they were asked to perform and eventually left panel when it became apparent the system was more important than talent .

Armagh is surprising as they had such a good trajectory last year and were playing a brand of football which empowered their forwards.

This year they lost the likes of Clarke, Oisin O'Neill, Stefan Campbell and Ciaran O'Hanlon in the forward line.

To be perfectly honest, Cavan and Derry just don't really seem to have many top class forwards but you look at Derry and they've been without a host of very talented players over the past few years which they could really have achieved something with. I look at Derry under Barton the past few years and Armagh under McGeeney the past few years, they have both had squads shorn of important players for various reasons but both sides have really taken on the baton with great pride and spirit and it makes you think that if they had all their best players fit, available and buying into what the management team are doing then why couldn't they target an Ulster title at least.

The point is there was an Ulster Championship up for grabs this year. Fermanagh would not have the same pool of ability of those 4 counties but found themselves in an Ulster final this year.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: tonto1888 on July 08, 2018, 12:46:01 PM
Which came first withdrawal of players which led to mediocrity or acceptance of mediocrity which led to withdrawal of players, it is no coincidence that Armagh , Derry and Cavan all adopted defensive systems inspired by Jim McGuinnessís Donegal , this then led to talented forwards in particular becoming redundant and frustrated and eventually coming to the realisation that an absolute dummy could perform the role they were asked to perform and eventually left panel when it became apparent the system was more important than talent .

Have you watched Armagh recently
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Timís Hero on July 08, 2018, 12:54:06 PM
Yes I have . Watched them for a long time now , watched how we went from being in AI QF v Donegal in 2014 and running them so close to yesterday and anybody who thinks Armagh are making progress is fooling  themselves , a handful of players are doing sterling work to cover over the cracks.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: larryin89 on July 08, 2018, 01:30:41 PM
Well done to Roscommon , very enjoyable game of football to watch .

Is their a gulf in class between Roscommon and the bigger teams , super 8 will tell us conclusively whether that's true or not . 
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: giveballaghback on July 08, 2018, 01:37:41 PM
All the pressure on Roscommon as defeat would mean its been a poor season given their easy run to reach the super 8's and would suggest they've gone backwards.

Donít let anger cloud your judgement.

Don't understand the little hype around Roscommon. Think they are doomed tomorrow. Spineless when it comes to it. Beating near neighbours once every other year in May and subsequently booking the Gresham for the first Sunday in September doesn't constitute talent. Limited team who (and as a Tyrone man pains me to say this) will be dumped out tomorrow by a harder, sterner better coached Armagh team.
Ahem, could you please give us your prediction for our game next weekend, you are so incisive with your analysis.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Orchard park on July 08, 2018, 01:42:37 PM
Well done to Roscommon , very enjoyable game of football to watch .

Is their a gulf in class between Roscommon and the bigger teams , super 8 will tell us conclusively whether that's true or not .


Time will tell, at least we  the chance to find out instead of wondering or dreaming wildly......
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: giveballaghback on July 08, 2018, 01:45:54 PM
The Roscommon ones are quite likeable chaps in winning. I was dreading the ribbing on here after the loss on my 30th birthday but I think you have found yourselves a new fan.

Good luck to Ross in the super 8s

Armagh and Fermanagh people are the only Ulster lads we can stand.
Speak for yourself syf, as far as im concerned Ulster people are the finest.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: giveballaghback on July 08, 2018, 01:49:50 PM
Let me guess Baggio90 is reincarnation of Il Bomber Destro?
Jaysus is desperate Dan back?
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: illdecide on July 08, 2018, 01:59:00 PM
I see the schools are off for the summer based on the posts
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Blowitupref on July 08, 2018, 02:42:47 PM
If ever there was an argument for a tiered championship this match was it. We got a great game against 2 evenly matched teams , however they are so far off the top table it is shocking . Two teams would be intermediate in a county championship scenario.No disrespect to Roscommon but they will do well not to be beat by 10 points in each super 8 game. McStay and Roscommon though has a plan and see the 3 games as a progression to Div 1 next year and then come back stronger to championship next year. Armagh however despite the best endeavours of a number of players are back to square one next year with no idea of who will play who won’t , will management be retained or let go after another poor day at the office yesterday !!!!!!

Evenly matched? if Roscommon weren't so wasteful on the amount of goal chances they would have won by double the score they did. There is little or no appetite for tiered championship especially one like in Hurling. We already have the league for that anyway for "lesser" teams to develop and improve. Armagh very much work in progress and they should be looking to progress further in Div 2 next year.

You do realize that Roscommon have already faced a "super 8" team already this summer in Galway and it took Galway until injury time to win that game. Are Tyrone and Donegal better than Galway i'd wonder.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Baggio90 on July 08, 2018, 03:03:03 PM
If ever there was an argument for a tiered championship this match was it. We got a great game against 2 evenly matched teams , however they are so far off the top table it is shocking . Two teams would be intermediate in a county championship scenario.No disrespect to Roscommon but they will do well not to be beat by 10 points in each super 8 game. McStay and Roscommon though has a plan and see the 3 games as a progression to Div 1 next year and then come back stronger to championship next year. Armagh however despite the best endeavours of a number of players are back to square one next year with no idea of who will play who wonít , will management be retained or let go after another poor day at the office yesterday !!!!!!
Are Tyrone and Donegal better than Galway i'd wonder.

I'd say so, they've won Championship matches at Croke Park in the last 17 years at least.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Blowitupref on July 08, 2018, 03:13:42 PM

I'd say so, they've won Championship matches at Croke Park in the last 17 years at least.
I deal with the here and now. The weeks and months ahead should tell us all where Tyrone,Galway and Donegal really stand.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Throw ball on July 08, 2018, 03:15:08 PM
If ever there was an argument for a tiered championship this match was it. We got a great game against 2 evenly matched teams , however they are so far off the top table it is shocking . Two teams would be intermediate in a county championship scenario.No disrespect to Roscommon but they will do well not to be beat by 10 points in each super 8 game. McStay and Roscommon though has a plan and see the 3 games as a progression to Div 1 next year and then come back stronger to championship next year. Armagh however despite the best endeavours of a number of players are back to square one next year with no idea of who will play who wonít , will management be retained or let go after another poor day at the office yesterday !!!!!!

Evenly matched? if Roscommon weren't so wasteful on the amount of goal chances they would have won by double the score they did. There is little or no appetite for tiered championship especially one like in Hurling. We already have the league for that anyway for "lesser" teams to develop and improve. Armagh very much work in progress and they should be looking to progress further in Div 2 next year.

You do realize that Roscommon have already faced a "super 8" team already this summer in Galway and it took Galway until injury time to win that game. Are Tyrone and Donegal better than Galway i'd wonder.

While I appreciate why you are replying I feel you are being over critical on Armagh. Remember this was their 4th match in 5 weeks and in that time they lost their top scorer in league and full back to injury. Sheridan in midfield couldn't last as he is only back from injury. The missing players mentioned many times also weakened the bench and the recovery from playing in scorching temperatures last week cannot be underestimated. For me the teams were evenly matched until Armagh had to go to the bench as they ran out if steam. A couple of the goal scoring chances you mention came as a result of Donaghy being substituted and Armagh pushing up for scores without the legs to get back.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Baggio90 on July 08, 2018, 04:00:36 PM

I'd say so, they've won Championship matches at Croke Park in the last 17 years at least.
I deal with the here and now. The weeks and months ahead should tell us all where Tyrone,Galway and Donegal really stand.

The here and now says Galway haven't won a Championship game in Croke Park in 17 years.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Blowitupref on July 08, 2018, 04:09:24 PM

While I appreciate why you are replying I feel you are being over critical on Armagh. Remember this was their 4th match in 5 weeks and in that time they lost their top scorer in league and full back to injury. Sheridan in midfield couldn't last as he is only back from injury. The missing players mentioned many times also weakened the bench and the recovery from playing in scorching temperatures last week cannot be underestimated. For me the teams were evenly matched until Armagh had to go to the bench as they ran out if steam. A couple of the goal scoring chances you mention came as a result of Donaghy being substituted and Armagh pushing up for scores without the legs to get back.
Wasn't my intention to be critical of Armagh was more replying to that daft post above. I think Armagh have a nice team there now with a lot of quality footballers and can improve to reach the last 8 again in the foreseeable future

Armagh over the last number of years have been a momentum team they improve with each game and if memory serves me right they played 5 games in row when they reached the All Ireland quarter final and pushed Donegal all the way in 2014.


Roscommon was creating goal chances throughout that game even in the 1st minute Cathal Cregg had a shot blocked by a Armagh foot. Scorching temperatures yes wouldn't have helped but on injuries the rossies also had that problem by losing good players before the game in Brian Stack,Fergal Lennon and Ultan Harney before throw in and Compton one of their most important players wasn't fit for a full 70 mins yesterday. Some of their subs they brought on yesterday played little of no league football so they were light on the bench also.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Blowitupref on July 08, 2018, 04:10:48 PM

I'd say so, they've won Championship matches at Croke Park in the last 17 years at least.
I deal with the here and now. The weeks and months ahead should tell us all where Tyrone,Galway and Donegal really stand.

The here and now says Galway haven't won a Championship game in Croke Park in 17 years.
The here and now is a new group format starting next week and Galway can lose in Croke Park next Sunday and still reach the last four.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Baggio90 on July 08, 2018, 04:11:35 PM

While I appreciate why you are replying I feel you are being over critical on Armagh. Remember this was their 4th match in 5 weeks and in that time they lost their top scorer in league and full back to injury. Sheridan in midfield couldn't last as he is only back from injury. The missing players mentioned many times also weakened the bench and the recovery from playing in scorching temperatures last week cannot be underestimated. For me the teams were evenly matched until Armagh had to go to the bench as they ran out if steam. A couple of the goal scoring chances you mention came as a result of Donaghy being substituted and Armagh pushing up for scores without the legs to get back.
Wasn't my intention to be critical of Armagh was more replying to daft post above. I think Armagh have a nice team there now with a lot of quality footballers and can improve to reach the last 8 again in the foreseeable future

Armagh over the last number of years have been a momentum team they improve with each game and if memory serves me right they played 5 games in row when they reached the All Ireland quarter final and pushed Donegal all the way in 2014.


Roscommon was creating goal chances throughout that game even in the 1st minute Cathal Cregg had a shot blocked by a Armagh foot. Scorching temperatures yes wouldn't have helped but on injuries the rossies also had that problem by losing good players before the game in Brian Stack,Fergal Lennon and Ultan Harney before throw in and Compton one of their most important players wasn't fit for a full 70 mins yesterday. Some of their subs they brought on yesterday played little of no league football so they were light on the bench also.

The two teams were fairly evenly matched. Game was in the melting pot with a few minutes to go, I don't see what's wrong with stating there's not a lot between the two teams.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Syferus on July 08, 2018, 04:17:29 PM

While I appreciate why you are replying I feel you are being over critical on Armagh. Remember this was their 4th match in 5 weeks and in that time they lost their top scorer in league and full back to injury. Sheridan in midfield couldn't last as he is only back from injury. The missing players mentioned many times also weakened the bench and the recovery from playing in scorching temperatures last week cannot be underestimated. For me the teams were evenly matched until Armagh had to go to the bench as they ran out if steam. A couple of the goal scoring chances you mention came as a result of Donaghy being substituted and Armagh pushing up for scores without the legs to get back.
Wasn't my intention to be critical of Armagh was more replying to that daft post above. I think Armagh have a nice team there now with a lot of quality footballers and can improve to reach the last 8 again in the foreseeable future

Armagh over the last number of years have been a momentum team they improve with each game and if memory serves me right they played 5 games in row when they reached the All Ireland quarter final and pushed Donegal all the way in 2014.


Roscommon was creating goal chances throughout that game even in the 1st minute Cathal Cregg had a shot blocked by a Armagh foot. Scorching temperatures yes wouldn't have helped but on injuries the rossies also had that problem by losing good players before the game in Brian Stack,Fergal Lennon and Ultan Harney before throw in and Compton one of their most important players wasn't fit for a full 70 mins yesterday. Some of their subs they brought on yesterday played little of no league football so they were light on the bench also.

Only reason Comp didnít feature much in the league was because he was injured. Paterson was with his club until half way through the league as they made the AI final. He featured a lot last year.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Blowitupref on July 08, 2018, 04:21:04 PM
The two teams were fairly evenly matched. Game was in the melting pot with a few minutes to go, I don't see what's wrong with stating there's not a lot between the two teams.
It looked more evenly matched and game was still in the melting pot with a few minutes to go because Roscommon were more wasteful in front of goal. Meanwhile Armagh kicked one wide in the first half a massive improvement on their shooting from the Clare game.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Baggio90 on July 08, 2018, 04:44:15 PM
The two teams were fairly evenly matched. Game was in the melting pot with a few minutes to go, I don't see what's wrong with stating there's not a lot between the two teams.
It looked more evenly matched and game was still in the melting pot with a few minutes to go because Roscommon were more wasteful in front of goal. Meanwhile Armagh kicked one wide in the first half a massive improvement on their shooting from the Clare game.


I think Armagh were equally as wasteful, Roscommon's first goal was also a sucker punch which came pretty much against the run of play. There didn't seem to be much between the teams other than Roscommon had a bit more in the tank and I'd put that down to the injury problems and withdrawals Armagh have been hit with this year, Roscommon might have a few injuries and withdrawals themselves but nothing to the extent that Armagh have had. If Armagh had the likes of Ben Crealey and Ethan Rafferty fit yesterday you'd really have fancied them to have cleaned Roscommon out in the middle of the field and allowed them to leave Murnin closer to goal where he was destroying their full back in the first half.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 08, 2018, 04:47:08 PM
No longer guessing i have no doubt Baggio90 is a reincarnation of Il Bomber Destro!
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: bennydorano on July 08, 2018, 04:47:40 PM
Excuse my ignorance but where are the Shines?
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: tonto1888 on July 08, 2018, 04:54:21 PM
Excuse my ignorance but where are the Shines?

Roscommon players?
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Syferus on July 08, 2018, 05:01:45 PM
Excuse my ignorance but where are the Shines?

Theyíre not related, Donie has been blighted with injuries. Donie Senior died last year too and he hasnít been involved last season or this at all. Iíd be surprised if he ever makes it back. Cathal has struggled with his fitness for ages too.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Blowitupref on July 08, 2018, 05:15:44 PM
Paterson was with his club until half way through the league as they made the AI final. He featured a lot last year.
Quick question. Do you think Patterson would have made the Roscommon 26 yesterday if the Stack brothers and the Lennon brothers were fit or if Sean Mullooly,Cian Connolly didn't go traveling this summer?


I think Armagh were equally as wasteful, Roscommon's first goal was also a sucker punch which came pretty much against the run of play. There didn't seem to be much between the teams other than Roscommon had a bit more in the tank and I'd put that down to the injury problems and withdrawals Armagh have been hit with this year, Roscommon might have a few injuries and withdrawals themselves but nothing to the extent that Armagh have had. If Armagh had the likes of Ben Crealey and Ethan Rafferty fit yesterday you'd really have fancied them to have cleaned Roscommon out in the middle of the field and allowed them to leave Murnin closer to goal where he was destroying their full back in the first half.

It was 0-8 to 0-10 when Roscommon scored their goal and the goal was coming as they were creating and looking for goals. Armagh at that stage had their best patch in the game and scored 0-10 from 11 attempts equally as wasteful?  Galway have a better midfield than Armagh and with Compton in Roscommon's midfield they more than broke even against them 1st half in the Connacht final. If McInerney marked Murnin all game he wouldn't have got as much joy as he did so McStay got his match ups wrong there something he can't afford to repeat against Tyrone next.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Syferus on July 08, 2018, 05:18:08 PM
Paterson was with his club until half way through the league as they made the AI final. He featured a lot last year.
Quick question. Do you think Patterson would have made the Roscommon 26 yesterday if the Stack brothers and the Lennon brothers were fit or if Sean Mullooly,Cian Connolly didn't go traveling this summer?


I think Armagh were equally as wasteful, Roscommon's first goal was also a sucker punch which came pretty much against the run of play. There didn't seem to be much between the teams other than Roscommon had a bit more in the tank and I'd put that down to the injury problems and withdrawals Armagh have been hit with this year, Roscommon might have a few injuries and withdrawals themselves but nothing to the extent that Armagh have had. If Armagh had the likes of Ben Crealey and Ethan Rafferty fit yesterday you'd really have fancied them to have cleaned Roscommon out in the middle of the field and allowed them to leave Murnin closer to goal where he was destroying their full back in the first half.

It was 0-8 to 0-10 when Roscommon scored their goal and the goal was coming as they were creating and looking for goals. Armagh at that stage had their best patch in the game and scored 0-10 from 11 attempts equally as wasteful?  Galway have a better midfield than Armagh and with Compton in Roscommon's midfield they more than broke even against them 1st half in the Connacht final. If McInerney marked Murnin all game he wouldn't have got as much joy as he did so McStay got his match ups wrong there something he can't afford to repeat against Tyrone next.

Paterson has been regularly making the 26 both of the last two years with most of those players involved so itís not even much of an opinion to say he would. He has excellent pace and could be in line to start next week. Not many would have had Niall Kilroy as a squad member let alone a surefire starter until McStay arrived. I pay no heed to what playersí reputations are.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Baggio90 on July 08, 2018, 05:23:58 PM
Paterson was with his club until half way through the league as they made the AI final. He featured a lot last year.
Quick question. Do you think Patterson would have made the Roscommon 26 yesterday if the Stack brothers and the Lennon brothers were fit or if Sean Mullooly,Cian Connolly didn't go traveling this summer?


I think Armagh were equally as wasteful, Roscommon's first goal was also a sucker punch which came pretty much against the run of play. There didn't seem to be much between the teams other than Roscommon had a bit more in the tank and I'd put that down to the injury problems and withdrawals Armagh have been hit with this year, Roscommon might have a few injuries and withdrawals themselves but nothing to the extent that Armagh have had. If Armagh had the likes of Ben Crealey and Ethan Rafferty fit yesterday you'd really have fancied them to have cleaned Roscommon out in the middle of the field and allowed them to leave Murnin closer to goal where he was destroying their full back in the first half.

It was 0-8 to 0-10 when Roscommon scored their goal and the goal was coming as they were creating and looking for goals. Armagh at that stage had their best patch in the game and scored 0-10 from 11 attempts equally as wasteful?  Galway have a better midfield than Armagh and with Compton in Roscommon's midfield they more than broke even against them 1st half in the Connacht final. If McInerney marked Murnin all game he wouldn't have got as much joy as he did so McStay got his match ups wrong there something he can't afford to repeat against Tyrone next.


You're using a lot of ifs there.

What are the stats for chance conversion? Armagh missed a lot of chances in the latter stages too, including a penalty and a free that was waved wide when it looked over. Roscommon finished the game stronger and deserved their win but it was a competitive game with two evenly matched sides. Armagh seemed to be the more depleted of the two sides and I think that was the main difference.

When Murnin went out the field, Shields caused wreck inside and he's a natural wing back.

Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: oliverkelly on July 08, 2018, 05:28:45 PM
Paterson was with his club until half way through the league as they made the AI final. He featured a lot last year.
Quick question. Do you think Patterson would have made the Roscommon 26 yesterday if the Stack brothers and the Lennon brothers were fit or if Sean Mullooly,Cian Connolly didn't go traveling this summer?


I think Armagh were equally as wasteful, Roscommon's first goal was also a sucker punch which came pretty much against the run of play. There didn't seem to be much between the teams other than Roscommon had a bit more in the tank and I'd put that down to the injury problems and withdrawals Armagh have been hit with this year, Roscommon might have a few injuries and withdrawals themselves but nothing to the extent that Armagh have had. If Armagh had the likes of Ben Crealey and Ethan Rafferty fit yesterday you'd really have fancied them to have cleaned Roscommon out in the middle of the field and allowed them to leave Murnin closer to goal where he was destroying their full back in the first half.

It was 0-8 to 0-10 when Roscommon scored their goal and the goal was coming as they were creating and looking for goals. Armagh at that stage had their best patch in the game and scored 0-10 from 11 attempts equally as wasteful?  Galway have a better midfield than Armagh and with Compton in Roscommon's midfield they more than broke even against them 1st half in the Connacht final. If McInerney marked Murnin all game he wouldn't have got as much joy as he did so McStay got his match ups wrong there something he can't afford to repeat against Tyrone next.


You're using a lot of ifs there.

What are the stats for chance conversion? Armagh missed a lot of chances in the latter stages too, including a penalty and a free that was waved wide when it looked over. Roscommon finished the game stronger and deserved their win but it was a competitive game with two evenly matched sides. Armagh seemed to be the more depleted of the two sides and I think that was the main difference.

When Murnin went out the field, Shields caused wreck inside and he's a natural wing back.

The free was a good foot wide. The penalty shouldnt have been a penalty. Murnin went out the field because he was been roasted by McInerney when he was swithed back on him.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Baggio90 on July 08, 2018, 05:35:12 PM
Paterson was with his club until half way through the league as they made the AI final. He featured a lot last year.
Quick question. Do you think Patterson would have made the Roscommon 26 yesterday if the Stack brothers and the Lennon brothers were fit or if Sean Mullooly,Cian Connolly didn't go traveling this summer?


I think Armagh were equally as wasteful, Roscommon's first goal was also a sucker punch which came pretty much against the run of play. There didn't seem to be much between the teams other than Roscommon had a bit more in the tank and I'd put that down to the injury problems and withdrawals Armagh have been hit with this year, Roscommon might have a few injuries and withdrawals themselves but nothing to the extent that Armagh have had. If Armagh had the likes of Ben Crealey and Ethan Rafferty fit yesterday you'd really have fancied them to have cleaned Roscommon out in the middle of the field and allowed them to leave Murnin closer to goal where he was destroying their full back in the first half.

It was 0-8 to 0-10 when Roscommon scored their goal and the goal was coming as they were creating and looking for goals. Armagh at that stage had their best patch in the game and scored 0-10 from 11 attempts equally as wasteful?  Galway have a better midfield than Armagh and with Compton in Roscommon's midfield they more than broke even against them 1st half in the Connacht final. If McInerney marked Murnin all game he wouldn't have got as much joy as he did so McStay got his match ups wrong there something he can't afford to repeat against Tyrone next.


You're using a lot of ifs there.

What are the stats for chance conversion? Armagh missed a lot of chances in the latter stages too, including a penalty and a free that was waved wide when it looked over. Roscommon finished the game stronger and deserved their win but it was a competitive game with two evenly matched sides. Armagh seemed to be the more depleted of the two sides and I think that was the main difference.

When Murnin went out the field, Shields caused wreck inside and he's a natural wing back.

The free was a good foot wide. The penalty shouldnt have been a penalty. Murnin went out the field because he was been roasted by McInerney when he was swithed back on him.

The free certainly looked well inside the posts.

The penalty I will give you but it also came form a great goal chance that blowitup seems to forgotten about. As long as Murnin was playing inside he was causing wreck, he went out the field and Shields went inside and he caused wreck. If Armagh had more of their middle third players fit or available I think it would really have allowed them to focus on these obvious weaknesses of Roscommon.

Roscommon also got a number of extremely soft frees they converted, including one ridiculous one in the first half, when Cathal Cregg elbowed Mark Shields in the face.

Either way I think the game being in the melting pot with a few minutes left was a very fair reflection of the contest up until then and Roscommon had more in the tank down the straight and that swung it for them.



Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rossfan on July 08, 2018, 05:38:55 PM
Please don't be indulging that buck.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Baggio90 on July 08, 2018, 05:43:40 PM
Please don't be indulging that buck.

I don't think I've come across a more entitled, sensitive set of supporters as ye lads before.

Getting your knickers in a twist for saying that a game between two sides which was in the melting pot until injury time was evenly matched.

Getting your knickers in a twist when I make some observations supported by a body of empirical evidence.

And I'm painted as some sort of bogey man as a result of making pragmatic appraisals supported by facts?

Odd.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Blowitupref on July 08, 2018, 05:44:21 PM
Please don't be indulging that buck.
This will be my final post on the matter.


You're using a lot of ifs there.

What are the stats for chance conversion? Armagh missed a lot of chances in the latter stages too, including a penalty and a free that was waved wide when it looked over. Roscommon finished the game stronger and deserved their win but it was a competitive game with two evenly matched sides. Armagh seemed to be the more depleted of the two sides and I think that was the main difference.

When Murnin went out the field, Shields caused wreck inside and he's a natural wing back.

I used one if about McInerney. The same player did a very good marking job on Comer in the Connacht final don't forget. Murnin influence faded once McInereny was moved onto him. It was debatable if it was penalty at all as Roscommon didn't get one for the same so called foot block and anyway Armagh scored a goal within 1 minute after that penalty miss. That free looked wide to me they were never going to keep up their strike rate of the 1st half. Roscommon should have put that game to bed must earlier but they still won by 6 points the difference between the sides is Roscommon are top 8 side now and Armagh hope to reach that level however i think they are capable of reaching that level if they keep improving. And BTW my views are coming as neutral baggio.

Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Baggio90 on July 08, 2018, 05:51:43 PM
Please don't be indulging that buck.
This will be my final post on the matter.


You're using a lot of ifs there.

What are the stats for chance conversion? Armagh missed a lot of chances in the latter stages too, including a penalty and a free that was waved wide when it looked over. Roscommon finished the game stronger and deserved their win but it was a competitive game with two evenly matched sides. Armagh seemed to be the more depleted of the two sides and I think that was the main difference.

When Murnin went out the field, Shields caused wreck inside and he's a natural wing back.

I used one if about McInerney. The same player did a very good marking job on Comer in the Connacht final don't forget. Murnin influence faded once McInereny was moved onto him. It was debatable if it was penalty at all as Roscommon didn't get one for the same so called foot block and anyway Armagh scored a goal within 1 minute after that penalty miss. That free looked wide to me they were never going to keep up their strike rate of the 1st half. Roscommon should have put that game to bed must earlier but they still won by 6 points the difference between the sides is Roscommon are top 8 side now and Armagh hope to reach that level however i think they are capable of reaching that level if they keep improving. And BTW my views are coming as neutral baggio.


I wouldn't agree at all, Armagh butchered a lot of chances and I think the first Roscommon goal came completely against the run of play.

The game was in the melting pot with a few minutes to go and Roscommon finished stronger and got their victory and capitalised on Armagh pushing for sores in the last few minutes and leaving themselves exposed. I didn't think there was too much between the sides other than Roscommon being that bit fresher. Armagh had a number of goal openings at the start of the second half which I think you must have forgotten about.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: tonto1888 on July 08, 2018, 05:59:38 PM
He first Roscommon goal cane from a misplaced fist pass by vernon. We had goal chances second half which we spurned. 3 off the top of my head. I didnít see a problem with he penalty, can someone clear that up for me?
It was a great match. We were on the wrong side of the result but Roscommon were deserved winner in my opinion. A pleasure to have been there
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Throw ball on July 08, 2018, 06:01:15 PM
Please don't be indulging that buck.
This will be my final post on the matter.


You're using a lot of ifs there.

What are the stats for chance conversion? Armagh missed a lot of chances in the latter stages too, including a penalty and a free that was waved wide when it looked over. Roscommon finished the game stronger and deserved their win but it was a competitive game with two evenly matched sides. Armagh seemed to be the more depleted of the two sides and I think that was the main difference.

When Murnin went out the field, Shields caused wreck inside and he's a natural wing back.

I used one if about McInerney. The same player did a very good marking job on Comer in the Connacht final don't forget. Murnin influence faded once McInereny was moved onto him. It was debatable if it was penalty at all as Roscommon didn't get one for the same so called foot block and anyway Armagh scored a goal within 1 minute after that penalty miss. That free looked wide to me they were never going to keep up their strike rate of the 1st half. Roscommon should have put that game to bed must earlier but they still won by 6 points the difference between the sides is Roscommon are top 8 side now and Armagh hope to reach that level however i think they are capable of reaching that level if they keep improving. And BTW my views are coming as neutral baggio.

I could keep this going for you. ;D

Murnin spent much of the first half playing full forward but coming  to midfield for kick outs. He lost a couple of balls early in the second half but to say if he stayed there he would not have caused problems takes a big leap of faith. A full forward after all only has to win a couple of balls to change a game. The full back has to win them all. He is a completely different type of player to Comer. Unfortunately due to Sheridan having to leave the field Murnin had to move to midfield and Armagh had to change the way they played the ball forward. Murnin is an unusual type of player. He doesn't always look elegant but he is highly effective at full forward. His persistent injury problems mean IMHO he lacks the fitness for an inter county midfielder.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Baggio90 on July 08, 2018, 06:09:07 PM
He first Roscommon goal cane from a misplaced fist pass by vernon. We had goal chances second half which we spurned. 3 off the top of my head. I didnít see a problem with he penalty, can someone clear that up for me?
It was a great match. We were on the wrong side of the result but Roscommon were deserved winner in my opinion. A pleasure to have been there

The footblock rule is a bit iffy.

You can understand the need for it as it could result in some nasty injuries.

The Armagh defender who blocked the ball with his foot in the first half was a good distance back from the player who took the shot so there was certainly no call for a penalty there.

As Grugan was approaching in on goal, the referee deemed that it was dangerous play. It was harsh but you could understand why it was given as he was much closer to the player taking the shot than the Armagh player in the first half. I do think it was on the soft side.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Owen Brannigan on July 08, 2018, 07:49:03 PM
Murnin is an unusual type of player. He doesn't always look elegant but he is highly effective at full forward.

He looked fairly elegant yesterday in the first half as he ran out from his marker, scooped a head high ball with one hand and turned 180 degrees before kicking it over the bar.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: tonto1888 on July 08, 2018, 08:10:59 PM
Murnin is an unusual type of player. He doesn't always look elegant but he is highly effective at full forward.

He looked fairly elegant yesterday in the first half as he ran out from his marker, scooped a head high ball with one hand and turned 180 degrees before kicking it over the bar.

That was a fantastic score
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Captain Obvious on July 08, 2018, 08:12:30 PM
Can anyone from Roscommon tell me why Ciaran Murtagh was taken off with 20 minutes to play? he was one of the stand out forwards on show with 0-6 scored including 4 outstanding points from the play and the lad that replaced him looked out of his depth.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on July 08, 2018, 08:17:16 PM
he picked up an injury/carryingba knock to his right ankle I think when he won a free early in the 2nd half
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Orchard park on July 08, 2018, 08:25:32 PM
Can anyone from Roscommon tell me why Ciaran Murtagh was taken off with 20 minutes to play? he was one of the stand out forwards on show with 0-6 scored including 4 outstanding points from the play and the lad that replaced him looked out of his depth.


Have to wait for Syferus statistical analysis.

I just thoughtvhe had emptied the tank......
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rossfan on July 08, 2018, 08:29:50 PM
He had been down injured a short while earlier.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Syferus on July 09, 2018, 12:27:53 AM
Can anyone from Roscommon tell me why Ciaran Murtagh was taken off with 20 minutes to play? he was one of the stand out forwards on show with 0-6 scored including 4 outstanding points from the play and the lad that replaced him looked out of his depth.


Have to wait for Syferus statistical analysis.

I just thoughtvhe had emptied the tank......

He burnt out. The pass where he got swallowed by his man while waiting for the ball showed that. His man accelerated away from him with the ball. He put in an absolutely excellent performance but he needed to be subbed because of that. The two Creggs, Paterson and Daly were all involved in the final scores and ran the legs off an Armagh defence that totally hit the wall in the final ten minutes.

The Ďinjuryí Rossfan refered to was a free he won and was about to take quick but Donie went over to him signalling him to stay on the floor as it was during a patch when Armagh had momentum after their own goal. He definitely wasnít injured.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: illdecide on July 09, 2018, 09:37:04 AM
I think some people are losing the run of themselves here...Roscommon won the match fair and square, yes Armagh missed a penalty and one or two other goal chances but i remember clearly Roscommon missing several goal chances too (fairly even on that regard). Armagh's mid field were second best but the thing that pissed me off was not pushing up on Roscommon's kick out's specially the first half, that was criminal. All in all i was pleased with our performance knowing we could have been stronger and the matches every week in that heat took it's toll. The two Crossmaglen men corner backs would have been fantastic there yesterday as i doubt Smith would have burst through James Morgan in the full back line as easy, but could'a, would'a, should'a and all that...

I hope Roscommon do well in the Super 8's and it would have been nice to get in there but it wasn't to be...looks like we're going to get a few smashing games in the coming weeks...
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Owen Brannigan on July 09, 2018, 09:49:58 AM
The sheer strength shown by big men breaking through defences in both the Roscommon and Kildare games was something to behold.  There was no answer to it by either Armagh or Fermanagh.  The size difference was a factor in the Armagh game where most of our men were out sized and out muscled by Roscommon and couldn't cope without giving away the foul.  The big Roscommon men will have the same advantage against Tyrone.

Definitely getting to an Ulster final must be the best route for Armagh to get to the Super 8 as the four games in five weeks took its toll and the prospect of three even harder games would have been daunting from a physical and mental tiredness aspect.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: yellowcard on July 09, 2018, 11:56:01 AM
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/they-were-fg-useless-back-then-and-theyre-still-fg-useless-kieran-mcgeeney-blasts-armagh-critics-37095120.html

I do wonder who exactly McGeeney is referring to here, can't seem to work out who it might be since I have not heard much criticism of the team this year apart from after the Fermanagh match.

It's obviously something he wanted to get off his chest.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: illdecide on July 09, 2018, 12:07:59 PM
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/they-were-fg-useless-back-then-and-theyre-still-fg-useless-kieran-mcgeeney-blasts-armagh-critics-37095120.html

I do wonder who exactly McGeeney is referring to here, can't seem to work out who it might be since I have not heard much criticism of the team this year apart from after the Fermanagh match.

It's obviously something he wanted to get off his chest.

Yip me too, read that in today's Irish News. I wasn't sure who he was getting at as I don't remember any specific rants from individuals. Maybe it's the keyboard warrior brigade? Dunno TBH
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: yellowcard on July 09, 2018, 12:37:57 PM
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/they-were-fg-useless-back-then-and-theyre-still-fg-useless-kieran-mcgeeney-blasts-armagh-critics-37095120.html

I do wonder who exactly McGeeney is referring to here, can't seem to work out who it might be since I have not heard much criticism of the team this year apart from after the Fermanagh match.

It's obviously something he wanted to get off his chest.

Yip me too, read that in today's Irish News. I wasn't sure who he was getting at as I don't remember any specific rants from individuals. Maybe it's the keyboard warrior brigade? Dunno TBH

Whoever they are he played against them when they were useless. Presumably they are county players then since he didn't play club football in Armagh after he transferred to Dublin. For the life of me I cannot figure out who he is talking about as he hasn't got much criticism from pundits on tv this year to the best of my knowledge and most of those type of pundits were top players so they certainly wouldn't fall into the useless category. Honestly haven't a clue who he is referring to. You would have thought that the journalist would have asked him the obvious follow up question. 
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Hound on July 09, 2018, 12:46:28 PM
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/they-were-fg-useless-back-then-and-theyre-still-fg-useless-kieran-mcgeeney-blasts-armagh-critics-37095120.html

I do wonder who exactly McGeeney is referring to here, can't seem to work out who it might be since I have not heard much criticism of the team this year apart from after the Fermanagh match.

It's obviously something he wanted to get off his chest.

Yip me too, read that in today's Irish News. I wasn't sure who he was getting at as I don't remember any specific rants from individuals. Maybe it's the keyboard warrior brigade? Dunno TBH
Did McGeeney not have a go at people who write negative stuff on "message boards" recently? Almost certain I heard that on the GAA hour. It was specifically "message boards" rather than facebook, twitter, etc.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on July 09, 2018, 01:35:28 PM
Well he played against me a fair few times and Iíve never hidden my identity so perhaps Iím one of them ;D. That being said I donít whisper in the ears of young players and tell them anything. He is right though if he is referring to me...I was shite back then but not in the AI club final in 2000  ;)
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Itchy on July 09, 2018, 01:47:28 PM
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/they-were-fg-useless-back-then-and-theyre-still-fg-useless-kieran-mcgeeney-blasts-armagh-critics-37095120.html

I do wonder who exactly McGeeney is referring to here, can't seem to work out who it might be since I have not heard much criticism of the team this year apart from after the Fermanagh match.

It's obviously something he wanted to get off his chest.

Can someone translate what he is saying in the quoted parts as I have read it 3 times and still dont know what he is talking about.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Throw ball on July 09, 2018, 01:49:30 PM
Well he played against me a fair few times and Iíve never hidden my identity so perhaps Iím one of them ;D. That being said I donít whisper in the ears of young players and tell them anything. He is right though if he is referring to me...I was shite back then but not in the AI club final in 2000  ;)

To be fair I would be surprised if internet comments would worry Geezer too much. When I read the comments it was more the whispering in the ear as you describe that I thought he was on about.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: smelmoth on July 09, 2018, 01:52:22 PM
I said before the game that we are a very difficult team to analyse and even now 2 days after our last game of the season that remains the case.
 
The big positive for me is that we stuck with our brand of football. Maybe that is because we knew that Roscommon would allow us to play. We still donít know if we would have had the guts to play this way against a defensive team.
There are number of positives on the playing side with players stepping up to this level.
 
I donít buy into the idea that we went toe-to-toe with Roscommon. We traded scores, the lead on the scoreboard and each team attacked the other but toe-to-toe suggests we engaged in the battle across the pitch. That we did not do. I get infuriated when we automatically concede the possession on kick outs. Roscommon fans pointed out that they could believe that we could do this as it was well known that they lacked aerial strength at midfielder and had lost a midfielder before throw in. It now seems that the RTE pundits had identified this as a big issue. We gave them a free ride. That is not toe-to-toe. Its more head-in-hands. When you think about our long standing issue with stopping teams running at us through the middle the concession of possession at kick outs and letting Roscommon run right at us was criminal.
 
I would be hugely surprised if McGeeney is not there again next year but those who decide these things and ratify his appointment and that of his backroom must surely ask questions about their performance when it comes to relatively simple tactical ploys that seem to be our undoing. We need to improve on small things that can be got right if you have the Dublin panel to pick from or Waterford panel.
 
On with the club championship. If we could get a few boys back or unearth a few we really could do with pace in the full back line (McCabe needs moved back to half back where he could have a bid future), more scoring power and options in the forwards (big totals against weaker or ďopenĒ teams doesnít necessarily mean you can work the scores against bigger or more defensive teams) and a bit more all round ability in midfield (some of the younger guys donít yet have the power to bully opposition and some of the older heads are dithering on the ball).
 
A young team so we shouldnít be too badly impacted by retirements. There are 6/7 months before a ball is kicked in anger. Now is the time to reach out to see if the reasons for non-availability can be addressed. Who knows what that might or might not yield. Only one way to find out.   
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Syferus on July 09, 2018, 01:59:23 PM
I said before the game that we are a very difficult team to analyse and even now 2 days after our last game of the season that remains the case.
 
The big positive for me is that we stuck with our brand of football. Maybe that is because we knew that Roscommon would allow us to play. We still donít know if we would have had the guts to play this way against a defensive team.
There are number of positives on the playing side with players stepping up to this level.
 
I donít buy into the idea that we went toe-to-toe with Roscommon. We traded scores, the lead on the scoreboard and each team attacked the other but toe-to-toe suggests we engaged in the battle across the pitch. That we did not do. I get infuriated when we automatically concede the possession on kick outs. Roscommon fans pointed out that they could believe that we could do this as it was well known that they lacked aerial strength at midfielder and had lost a midfielder before throw in. It now seems that the RTE pundits had identified this as a big issue. We gave them a free ride. That is not toe-to-toe. Its more head-in-hands. When you think about our long standing issue with stopping teams running at us through the middle the concession of possession at kick outs and letting Roscommon run right at us was criminal.
 
I would be hugely surprised if McGeeney is not there again next year but those who decide these things and ratify his appointment and that of his backroom must surely ask questions about their performance when it comes to relatively simple tactical ploys that seem to be our undoing. We need to improve on small things that can be got right if you have the Dublin panel to pick from or Waterford panel.
 
On with the club championship. If we could get a few boys back or unearth a few we really could do with pace in the full back line (McCabe needs moved back to half back where he could have a bid future), more scoring power and options in the forwards (big totals against weaker or ďopenĒ teams doesnít necessarily mean you can work the scores against bigger or more defensive teams) and a bit more all round ability in midfield (some of the younger guys donít yet have the power to bully opposition and some of the older heads are dithering on the ball).
 
A young team so we shouldnít be too badly impacted by retirements. There are 6/7 months before a ball is kicked in anger. Now is the time to reach out to see if the reasons for non-availability can be addressed. Who knows what that might or might not yield. Only one way to find out.

Iíd love to know the ĎRoscommon supportersí who thought Ultan Harney was a midfielder.. by the way, Enda Smith was the best midfielder on the field by a large margin on Saturday so kicking it down the middle may not have had anything like your desired results.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: smelmoth on July 09, 2018, 02:00:15 PM
Well he played against me a fair few times and Iíve never hidden my identity so perhaps Iím one of them ;D. That being said I donít whisper in the ears of young players and tell them anything. He is right though if he is referring to me...I was shite back then but not in the AI club final in 2000  ;)

To be fair I would be surprised if internet comments would worry Geezer too much. When I read the comments it was more the whispering in the ear as you describe that I thought he was on about.

That was my reading of it. Itís either people getting in the ears of those who have opted out or trying to get in the ears of those who opted in.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: smelmoth on July 09, 2018, 02:01:15 PM
I said before the game that we are a very difficult team to analyse and even now 2 days after our last game of the season that remains the case.
 
The big positive for me is that we stuck with our brand of football. Maybe that is because we knew that Roscommon would allow us to play. We still donít know if we would have had the guts to play this way against a defensive team.
There are number of positives on the playing side with players stepping up to this level.
 
I donít buy into the idea that we went toe-to-toe with Roscommon. We traded scores, the lead on the scoreboard and each team attacked the other but toe-to-toe suggests we engaged in the battle across the pitch. That we did not do. I get infuriated when we automatically concede the possession on kick outs. Roscommon fans pointed out that they could believe that we could do this as it was well known that they lacked aerial strength at midfielder and had lost a midfielder before throw in. It now seems that the RTE pundits had identified this as a big issue. We gave them a free ride. That is not toe-to-toe. Its more head-in-hands. When you think about our long standing issue with stopping teams running at us through the middle the concession of possession at kick outs and letting Roscommon run right at us was criminal.
 
I would be hugely surprised if McGeeney is not there again next year but those who decide these things and ratify his appointment and that of his backroom must surely ask questions about their performance when it comes to relatively simple tactical ploys that seem to be our undoing. We need to improve on small things that can be got right if you have the Dublin panel to pick from or Waterford panel.
 
On with the club championship. If we could get a few boys back or unearth a few we really could do with pace in the full back line (McCabe needs moved back to half back where he could have a bid future), more scoring power and options in the forwards (big totals against weaker or ďopenĒ teams doesnít necessarily mean you can work the scores against bigger or more defensive teams) and a bit more all round ability in midfield (some of the younger guys donít yet have the power to bully opposition and some of the older heads are dithering on the ball).
 
A young team so we shouldnít be too badly impacted by retirements. There are 6/7 months before a ball is kicked in anger. Now is the time to reach out to see if the reasons for non-availability can be addressed. Who knows what that might or might not yield. Only one way to find out.

Iíd love to know the ĎRoscommon supportersí who thought Ultan Harney was a midfielder..

Not aware that anyone thought he was
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: seafoid on July 09, 2018, 02:03:56 PM
"They sit outside and they pontificate. I played against a lot of these fellas and they were f***ing useless back then and theyíre still f***ing useless."

Playing is not the same as analysing how good a team is.  Geezer hasn't won an Ulster championship match in 5 years
Even the most inoffensive people have doubts. And the qualifiers mostly involve beating weaker teams .
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on July 09, 2018, 02:13:09 PM
Well he played against me a fair few times and Iíve never hidden my identity so perhaps Iím one of them ;D. That being said I donít whisper in the ears of young players and tell them anything. He is right though if he is referring to me...I was shite back then but not in the AI club final in 2000  ;)

To be fair I would be surprised if internet comments would worry Geezer too much. When I read the comments it was more the whispering in the ear as you describe that I thought he was on about.

I agree that itís mostly ear whispering that he is referring to. There have been comments in the past about people hiding behind keyboards. The thing is I would say to someoneís fave what I say on here or the Armagh GAA board and have done on numerous occasions after being challenged. If the online criticism is an issue then maybe donít read it!  Players and managers are happy to read the papers or the online stuff when they are being lauded, you canít have it both ways.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rudi on July 09, 2018, 02:24:49 PM
Armagh are building a fine footballing team. Hope they stick with Geezer. Murrnin and Grugan are top class. Number 5 was cleaned badly until they decided to put him in full forward. Armagh wilted in the heat which is not surprising given the tough games they had lately. Roscommon did well to win a tight game. They badly need everyone on board next year.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: tonto1888 on July 09, 2018, 03:23:16 PM
Well he played against me a fair few times and Iíve never hidden my identity so perhaps Iím one of them ;D. That being said I donít whisper in the ears of young players and tell them anything. He is right though if he is referring to me...I was shite back then but not in the AI club final in 2000  ;)

To be fair I would be surprised if internet comments would worry Geezer too much. When I read the comments it was more the whispering in the ear as you describe that I thought he was on about.

I agree that itís mostly ear whispering that he is referring to. There have been comments in the past about people hiding behind keyboards. The thing is I would say to someoneís fave what I say on here or the Armagh GAA board and have done on numerous occasions after being challenged. If the online criticism is an issue then maybe donít read it!  Players and managers are happy to read the papers or the online stuff when they are being lauded, you canít have it both ways.

You may well one of the few who would. Most people use the anonymity of message boards to say hinge they never would say to someoneís face
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: bennydorano on July 09, 2018, 04:33:20 PM
Regarding the kick out situation, I watched the game on TV and as we conceded the kickouts I knew 100% we'd push up in the last 10/15mins or so if we were still in the hunt. Not sure why people are getting so wound up about it tbh, would it have made a positive difference on the scoreboard?? I doubt it. For once i think it was a clear tactical choice and it worked out fairly well all things considered.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: smelmoth on July 09, 2018, 07:14:54 PM
Regarding the kick out situation, I watched the game on TV and as we conceded the kickouts I knew 100% we'd push up in the last 10/15mins or so if we were still in the hunt. Not sure why people are getting so wound up about it tbh, would it have made a positive difference on the scoreboard?? I doubt it. For once i think it was a clear tactical choice and it worked out fairly well all things considered.

What I saw was a team that did not want to kick long being allowed not to kick long.
What I saw was a team with a known weakness being allowed to work around that weakness by a known and preventable means.
What I saw was a team with a recognised vulnerability to direct runners being allowed to use their kick outs to work positions to get runners away.


For me it had a huge bearing on the result
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Syferus on July 09, 2018, 07:16:37 PM
Regarding the kick out situation, I watched the game on TV and as we conceded the kickouts I knew 100% we'd push up in the last 10/15mins or so if we were still in the hunt. Not sure why people are getting so wound up about it tbh, would it have made a positive difference on the scoreboard?? I doubt it. For once i think it was a clear tactical choice and it worked out fairly well all things considered.

What I saw was a team that did not want to kick long being allowed not to kick long.
What I saw was a team with a known weakness being allowed to work around that weakness by a known and preventable means.
What I saw was a team with a recognised vulnerability to direct runners being allowed to use their kick outs to work positions to get runners away.


For me it had a huge bearing on the result

It didnít. When you kicked long Smith and later Compton hovered up a lot of the long kicks. Youíre living in a world where a perceived weakensss was an actual weakness on the field, which is simply not the case if you watch the match halfways objectively.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Throw ball on July 09, 2018, 07:33:01 PM
Regarding the kick out situation, I watched the game on TV and as we conceded the kickouts I knew 100% we'd push up in the last 10/15mins or so if we were still in the hunt. Not sure why people are getting so wound up about it tbh, would it have made a positive difference on the scoreboard?? I doubt it. For once i think it was a clear tactical choice and it worked out fairly well all things considered.

What I saw was a team that did not want to kick long being allowed not to kick long.
What I saw was a team with a known weakness being allowed to work around that weakness by a known and preventable means.
What I saw was a team with a recognised vulnerability to direct runners being allowed to use their kick outs to work positions to get runners away.


For me it had a huge bearing on the result

I feel Armagh conceded the kick outs due to their own weaknesses in the middle area. Sheridan was not fully fit, Vernon is not the tallest, Grimley was carrying an injury, Donaghy was sweeping and Shields and Hall are unlikely to win much in the air. Absentees weakened us in midfield so that we couldn't capitalise on a perceived weakness in Roscommon.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: smelmoth on July 09, 2018, 07:37:26 PM
Regarding the kick out situation, I watched the game on TV and as we conceded the kickouts I knew 100% we'd push up in the last 10/15mins or so if we were still in the hunt. Not sure why people are getting so wound up about it tbh, would it have made a positive difference on the scoreboard?? I doubt it. For once i think it was a clear tactical choice and it worked out fairly well all things considered.

What I saw was a team that did not want to kick long being allowed not to kick long.
What I saw was a team with a known weakness being allowed to work around that weakness by a known and preventable means.
What I saw was a team with a recognised vulnerability to direct runners being allowed to use their kick outs to work positions to get runners away.


For me it had a huge bearing on the result

I feel Armagh conceded the kick outs due to their own weaknesses in the middle area. Sheridan was not fully fit, Vernon is not the tallest, Grimley was carrying an injury, Donaghy was sweeping and Shields and Hall are unlikely to win much in the air. Absentees weakened us in midfield so that we couldn't capitalise on a perceived weakness in Roscommon.

And pushing up is not risk free but to not try it seemed strange
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Orchard park on July 09, 2018, 08:35:58 PM
Syferus,

In fairness Enda caught some monsters later on but did he touch the ball constructively in the first twenty.....
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Syferus on July 09, 2018, 08:44:15 PM
Syferus,

In fairness Enda caught some monsters later on but did he touch the ball constructively in the first twenty.....

Everyone was saying Enda hadnít touched the ball. You need to feed him to get him going. But once he gets going..
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Orchard park on July 09, 2018, 08:56:05 PM
Bollix in a word.  Win your own ball to quote the greatest hurling manager  ever
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: tonto1888 on July 09, 2018, 09:17:06 PM
Rossies, has there been much turnover in your team since the 2014 game? We had 7 in our squad on Saturday who were there.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Timís Hero on July 09, 2018, 09:36:51 PM
Canít believe McGeeneys outburst , so now it is everyoneís fault but his that a lot of players wonít commit to play for the county , surely it is the managers remit to ensure an environment is created where players would walk to Armagh to be involved.
In the workplace all managers have to deal with external influences and the best managers are those who trust their people to make the correct decisions as they know they have created an enjoyable workplace where all are valued and enjoy going to work.
Matter of trust really , donít think he did himself any favours there !
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rudi on July 09, 2018, 10:01:07 PM
Rossies, has there been much turnover in your team since the 2014 game? We had 7 in our squad on Saturday who were there.

9 lads  involved in 2014 and on team / panel Saturday
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: smelmoth on July 09, 2018, 10:57:41 PM
Canít believe McGeeneys outburst , so now it is everyoneís fault but his that a lot of players wonít commit to play for the county , surely it is the managers remit to ensure an environment is created where players would walk to Armagh to be involved.
In the workplace all managers have to deal with external influences and the best managers are those who trust their people to make the correct decisions as they know they have created an enjoyable workplace where all are valued and enjoy going to work.
Matter of trust really , donít think he did himself any favours there !


Timmy

I believe that there are 2 issues that we have to try to address. 1 is tactical and the other is the missing personnel. I believe these issues are placing an artificial ceiling on how far we can rise.

My questions to you are twofold.

Firstly;
Do you believe there are other issues and if so can you spell them out?
Could you support a McGeeney-lead management team if these 2 issues (and any further ones that you care to specify) were addressed?
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Timís Hero on July 10, 2018, 08:18:10 AM
Mothy

To be quite honest I think the 2 points you make are linked and McGeeney is putting up a smokescreen to deflect from anybody looking in his direction.
Tactically McGeeney has wasted 3 years trying to introduce a system which didnít suit or wasnít understood by the players , system was based on a defensive set up with runners coming from deep a la Jimmy Donegal. A lot of players were not happy or comfortable with system and several requested change of tactics which was met with usual McGeeney diplomacy , this ended up with friction in the camp and withdrawal of a number of players , the players who stayed on have a devotion to McGeeney and would eat grass for him but some donít really have the ability for county football at a higher level.
McGeeney seemed to soften his approach last year and gathered up the best of the rest and let the players express themselves a bit more , progress was made through league and things were on the up , however a complete tactical melt down in Newry coincided with a return to the system which again didnít suit /wasnít understood by the players and I feel they thought they were thrown under the bus for performance. The players after a shaky start through the qualifiers threw off the shackles and played expressive football that they are capable of and received all the plaudits.
However when the Tyrone match came round the management reverted back to the system and the rest is history, the lads devoted to McGeeney stayed ,but a lot thought whatís the point !!management donít trust us to play and they will revert back to their default position at all times , hence withdrawals from squad en masse . Then McGeeney has a go at everyone else for withdrawals , start with man in the mirror.
Can McGeeney be trusted with another crop of players ?? I wouldnít think so, the cycle will just keep repeating for another 4 /5 years . Strictly my own opinion based on what I see and read.








Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: yellowcard on July 10, 2018, 09:23:06 AM
Caolan Rafferty
Ethan Rafferty
James Morgan
Declan McKenna
Oisin O'Neill
Ciaran O'Hanlon
Stefan Campbell
Jamie Clarke

At least 6 of those players should be in the starting 15 for Armagh and would significantly strengthen the side so McGeeney is playing with a weakened hand. There may be others also that I have excluded but can't think of. Given the players that he is missing I think he done as well as could be expected as any manager this season. The question is why are those players not playing for the county team?

To the best of my knowledge all players bar Morgan, McKenna, Campbell and O'Neill are unavailable due to injury or are travelling abroad. McKenna I don't understand, he has been up among the best club players in the county consistently for the last 4/5 years but has never really had a decent chance at county level. Morgan too is a great defender at club level but has never consistently produced at county level whilst Campbell after one brilliant year a few years back when he was arguably one of the top forwards in Ireland, appears to have gone backwards since then largely due to lack of committment. O'Neill is still young and it is still unclear if he will be a county level footballer but he certainly has the potential to do so. I don't know the exact reason why these players have not committed but I reckon that McGeeney reckons they have been influenced by people surrounding them. He might not be far wrong. That said, it is their right to choose not to play county football if they so wish but the county team is weaker without them.

     
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Timís Hero on July 10, 2018, 09:32:51 AM
Gary McCooyey
Sean Connell
Aidan Nugent
Rian OíNeill
Ciaran Higgins (inj for 2 seasons)
Ben Crealy
Nugent (Maghery)
Barry McCambridge
Young lad plays 6 for Sarsfields

List goes on !! Lot of people missing the point , substantial number of lads not there because of management .
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: yellowcard on July 10, 2018, 10:23:48 AM
Gary McCooyey
Sean Connell
Aidan Nugent
Rian OíNeill
Ciaran Higgins (inj for 2 seasons)
Ben Crealy
Nugent (Maghery)
Barry McCambridge
Young lad plays 6 for Sarsfields

List goes on !! Lot of people missing the point , substantial number of lads not there because of management .

Crealey played against Fermanagh. Heffron is another who I forgot had opted out.

A lot of those players you mention are not better than what is there at the moment.  Rian O'Neill was with the U-20's and will be a county player in future but I think he made the correct decision playing at that grade this year and should be on full senior squad next season.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Throw ball on July 10, 2018, 10:37:00 AM
Gary McCooyey
Sean Connell
Aidan Nugent
Rian OíNeill
Ciaran Higgins (inj for 2 seasons)
Ben Crealy
Nugent (Maghery)
Barry McCambridge
Young lad plays 6 for Sarsfields

List goes on !! Lot of people missing the point , substantial number of lads not there because of management .

Crealey injured and Higgins started against Sligo a few weeks back.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Timís Hero on July 10, 2018, 10:37:57 AM
Only adding to last Saturdays squad , add in Kernanís , Carragher from Cross , Andy Mallon , Finn Mo , all early 30ís who still featuring with their clubs . Their experience would have made all the difference coming off bench for last 15 . Mayo team has several over 30ís still playing out of their skin !!
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: JP on July 10, 2018, 11:00:26 AM
Only adding to last Saturdays squad , add in Kernanís , Carragher from Cross , Andy Mallon , Finn Mo , all early 30ís who still featuring with their clubs . Their experience would have made all the difference coming off bench for last 15 . Mayo team has several over 30ís still playing out of their skin !!

Great players as they were in their day, bringing up the Kernans, Mallon and Finn Mo is a ridiculous line of argument.

Trying to build a team for the future, not looking back into the past.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on July 10, 2018, 11:08:09 AM
Only adding to last Saturdays squad , add in Kernanís , Carragher from Cross , Andy Mallon , Finn Mo , all early 30ís who still featuring with their clubs . Their experience would have made all the difference coming off bench for last 15 . Mayo team has several over 30ís still playing out of their skin !!

Great players as they were in their day, bringing up the Kernans, Mallon and Finn Mo is a ridiculous line of argument. Trying to build a team for the future, not looking back into the past.

I'm not so sure JP. My understanding is that Geezer's management style alienated both Paddy Mo and Dennis Stevenson, both of whom could have played an important role on Saturday.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: our_fella on July 10, 2018, 11:43:44 AM
Hughes
Hughes McKay Morgan
McCabe Donaghy Sheilds
Vernon Sheidan
Forker Grugan Grimley
Clarke Murnin Campbell

ONE CAN DREAM

Subs
E.Rafferty
Oneill
Ohanlon
Burns
Rowland
McQuillan
Mackin
Dyas
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Timís Hero on July 10, 2018, 11:52:45 AM
Thats very silly Rufus ,ridicule all you like , but point still remains in analysis of last Saturdays game in the context of getting our strongest panel on the pitch ie the managers job we had lot of people who could have made a contribution sitting at home. Would any of aforementioned not given us a chance of winning rather than throwing in 2 inexperienced u20ís (who got no league time) and a man who hasnít played in 4 years!!
Also note we are in year 4 of 5 year plan ,and now when the climax of Mcgeeneys masterclass should be in sight itís back to rebuilding !!
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: The Gs Man on July 10, 2018, 01:29:44 PM
Only adding to last Saturdays squad , add in Kernanís , Carragher from Cross , Andy Mallon , Finn Mo , all early 30ís who still featuring with their clubs . Their experience would have made all the difference coming off bench for last 15 . Mayo team has several over 30ís still playing out of their skin !!

Great players as they were in their day, bringing up the Kernans, Mallon and Finn Mo is a ridiculous line of argument. Trying to build a team for the future, not looking back into the past.

I'm not so sure JP. My understanding is that Geezer's management style alienated both Paddy Mo and Dennis Stevenson, both of whom could have played an important role on Saturday.

Not to mention how much we missed Benny Tierney's kick-outs.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on July 10, 2018, 01:37:52 PM
Thats very silly Rufus ,ridicule all you like , but point still remains in analysis of last Saturdays game in the context of getting our strongest panel on the pitch ie the managers job we had lot of people who could have made a contribution sitting at home. Would any of aforementioned not given us a chance of winning rather than throwing in 2 inexperienced u20ís (who got no league time) and a man who hasnít played in 4 years!!
Also note we are in year 4 of 5 year plan ,and now when the climax of Mcgeeneys masterclass should be in sight itís back to rebuilding !!

The fact that you castigate Geezer for the need to rebuild whilst at the same time bemoaning the loss of a number of retired players leaves you opens to ridicule. Unless of course you think these retired players can go on forever?

I'd also love to see a link to this (4 or) 5 year plan that you keep referring to.   
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: illdecide on July 10, 2018, 01:47:54 PM
Thats very silly Rufus ,ridicule all you like , but point still remains in analysis of last Saturdays game in the context of getting our strongest panel on the pitch ie the managers job we had lot of people who could have made a contribution sitting at home. Would any of aforementioned not given us a chance of winning rather than throwing in 2 inexperienced u20ís (who got no league time) and a man who hasnít played in 4 years!!
Also note we are in year 4 of 5 year plan ,and now when the climax of Mcgeeneys masterclass should be in sight itís back to rebuilding !!

Tim do you think that Armagh are the only team suffering from this...because we're a smaller County than most we probably feel the results of it more than the bigger Counties but don't get fooled that it's an Armagh thing or KMcG thing, one of the Roscommon lads listed on previous page some of the players they're missing from 4 years ago and their list was bigger than ours...Simple fact is it's happening all over Ireland to every County and it's more to do with the younger generation these days who either can't commit, want to travel, or end up working abroad...get over it.

One more thing if we were challenging for the all Ireland you'd have less guys dropping off the panel...call that as you see it or what that would say about the individual.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Ethan Tremblay on July 10, 2018, 01:58:59 PM
Genuinely think Tim must be here to wind up everyone, some ridiculous waffle coming out here now
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Timís Hero on July 10, 2018, 02:14:59 PM
Rufus you really should read your comments before posting , I castigate McGeeney for the waste of talent at his disposal, including retired players who might have not walked away if the correct environment was created .
I certainly wouldnít be entrusting him with a rebuilding job.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: maddog on July 10, 2018, 02:25:43 PM
Rufus you really should read your comments before posting , I castigate McGeeney for the waste of talent at his disposal, including retired players who might have not walked away if the correct environment was created .
I certainly wouldnít be entrusting him with a rebuilding job.

Who would you like to see take the reigns ?
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Solo_run on July 10, 2018, 02:27:04 PM
The team tried and they came up short. There is not enough experience in this squad but on the other hand there is still a lot of development.

They will come back next year and they will try again. The squad will have much more depth and that little bit more experience. I would say a Super 8 appearance next year is in our sights.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on July 10, 2018, 02:51:59 PM
Rufus you really should read your comments before posting , I castigate McGeeney for the waste of talent at his disposal, including retired players who might have not walked away if the correct environment was created . I certainly wouldnít be entrusting him with a rebuilding job.

But you've linked that to the need for rebuilding...

Also note we are in year 4 of 5 year plan ,and now when the climax of Mcgeeneys masterclass should be in sight itís back to rebuilding !!

What I'm asking you is that if Armagh were using the 30 somethings that you talked about, then as we look to 2019, you do not feel there would be a need for rebuilding, i.e. these 30 smethings would continue to represent our future?   
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: yellowcard on July 10, 2018, 02:54:46 PM
Be careful what you wish for Tim. If you think McGeeney isn't the man for the job then you should suggest who you think is the man. You clearly have an anti McGeeney agenda but you have to be realistic. We do not currently have the players at present to make super 8's. You have listed out players who were either fringe squad members previously or who are past their best. 
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on July 10, 2018, 03:03:31 PM
Be careful what you wish for Tim. If you think McGeeney isn't the man for the job then you should suggest who you think is the man. You clearly have an anti McGeeney agenda but you have to be realistic. We do not currently have the players at present to make super 8's. You have listed out players who were either fringe squad members previously or who are past their best.

That is the crux of the matter for the 'Geezer Out Brigade'. They feel there is potential there that is way beyond the reality.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: seafoid on July 10, 2018, 03:11:27 PM
Be careful what you wish for Tim. If you think McGeeney isn't the man for the job then you should suggest who you think is the man. You clearly have an anti McGeeney agenda but you have to be realistic. We do not currently have the players at present to make super 8's. You have listed out players who were either fringe squad members previously or who are past their best.

That is the crux of the matter for the 'Geezer Out Brigade'. They feel there is potential there that is way beyond the reality.
Geezer is not good tactically.
Would someone else be able to get more out of the players albeit with less intensity and charisma?  Would someone else bring Armagh further over 3 or 4 seasons? 
Is the Pope Catholic? 
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: balladmaker on July 10, 2018, 03:22:13 PM
Quote
Geezer is not good tactically.

What about Jim McCorry who is beside McGeeney on the sideline, is he not good technically either?  Did Paul Grimley make Kieran look good technically?
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Imposerous on July 10, 2018, 03:30:16 PM
Hughes
Hughes McKay Morgan
McCabe Donaghy Sheilds
Vernon Sheidan
Forker Grugan Grimley
Clarke Murnin Campbell

ONE CAN DREAM

Subs
E.Rafferty
Oneill
Ohanlon
Burns
Rowland
McQuillan
Mackin
Dyas

Based on the players that could reasonably be expected to be available a match day 26 (with a view to a fresh broom) could look something like this:

          Hughes
Morgan  McKay  Burns
McIlroy  Connell Shields
Rafferty / Grimley
O OíNeill  Grugan  Forker
McParland  Murnin  Campbell

Subs:
McParland
R OíNeill
J Duffy
McQuillan
Owens
McKenna
Rowland
McCabe
McShane
Hall
Either a Vernon / Donaghy

There are a number of other notable absentees from this list, so there is def a talent pool of at lest 30 guys across the county who could make us a very competitive outfit.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Solo_run on July 10, 2018, 03:40:17 PM
Hughes
Hughes McKay Morgan
McCabe Donaghy Sheilds
Vernon Sheidan
Forker Grugan Grimley
Clarke Murnin Campbell

ONE CAN DREAM

Subs
E.Rafferty
Oneill
Ohanlon
Burns
Rowland
McQuillan
Mackin
Dyas

Based on the players that could reasonably be expected to be available a match day 26 (with a view to a fresh broom) could look something like this:

          Hughes
Morgan  McKay  Burns
McIlroy  Connell Shields
Rafferty / Grimley
O OíNeill  Grugan  Forker
McParland  Murnin  Campbell

Subs:
McParland
R OíNeill
J Duffy
McQuillan
Owens
McKenna
Rowland
McCabe
McShane
Hall
Either a Vernon / Donaghy

There are a number of other notable absentees from this list, so there is def a talent pool of at lest 30 guys across the county who could make us a very competitive outfit.

Having McParland twice may waste a space  :o

What has happened to Findon?
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Timís Hero on July 10, 2018, 04:08:57 PM
Rufus now you are trying to put words in my mouth , I do not think over 30ís represent the way forward , but I will state again, the experience some of those players had to offer might have got Armagh over the line on Saturday past , maximum use of resources.
I unlike you think there is a lot of talent in the county and if utilised properly would be formidable opposition for any team.
I would also as I have previously stated like a review of coaching structures throughout clubs and schools in the county to ensure if we make the breakthrough to super 8ís it is sustainable long term.In my opinion McGeeney is not the man to spearhead this and if that makes me ďMcGeeney out brigade ď so be it. Iíd rather not die wondering what could have been .
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: lurganblue on July 10, 2018, 04:11:55 PM
Hughes
Hughes McKay Morgan
McCabe Donaghy Sheilds
Vernon Sheidan
Forker Grugan Grimley
Clarke Murnin Campbell

ONE CAN DREAM

Subs
E.Rafferty
Oneill
Ohanlon
Burns
Rowland
McQuillan
Mackin
Dyas

Based on the players that could reasonably be expected to be available a match day 26 (with a view to a fresh broom) could look something like this:

          Hughes
Morgan  McKay  Burns
McIlroy  Connell Shields
Rafferty / Grimley
O OíNeill  Grugan  Forker
McParland  Murnin  Campbell

Subs:
McParland
R OíNeill
J Duffy
McQuillan
Owens
McKenna
Rowland
McCabe
McShane
Hall
Either a Vernon / Donaghy

There are a number of other notable absentees from this list, so there is def a talent pool of at lest 30 guys across the county who could make us a very competitive outfit.

Having McParland twice may waste a space  :o

What has happened to Findon?

On the panel but rightly shouldn't be starting IMO.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Syferus on July 10, 2018, 04:12:19 PM
I really can't understand why anyone would want to remove McGeeney after promotion and nearly getting to back-to-back AIQFs. Armagh are firmly in the top ten now with a young panel.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Imposerous on July 10, 2018, 04:20:29 PM


Having McParland twice may waste a space  :o

[/quote]

I meant McParland and McPartland of course ;)
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Solo_run on July 10, 2018, 04:35:17 PM
I really can't understand why anyone would want to remove McGeeney after promotion and nearly getting to back-to-back AIQFs. Armagh are firmly in the top ten now with a young panel.

I get it but at the same time I do not see the point in wanting him out. Things have not gone right for him in the years since he took over and he has had to do some hard work to find players that were willing to make the effort.

It is ridiculous that some people want him out because of players not making themselves available to the county team. Is he demanding too much from the players? Possibly. But no doubt he has a plan, he has gone to the players with the plan and outlined what is expected of them. Some players have decided that the vision he has is not for them for a number of reasons and that is fine. He cannot be blamed for losing players who do not have the desire to commit. We all know that if the players do not commit to the team we are going to linger in mediocrity for the foreseeable years. However, some player have bought in to his vision and whether there has been progress or not is open to debate. Like Kildare, Armagh have not beaten anyone worth mentioning other than Kildare last year.

There are sections that think he fails to get it right tactically. Others see him as a dictator that says we either do it his way or you are off the panel. On Saturday I was watching the game and found Armagh's defending to be poor. From what I have seen, if Armagh can up the intensity in defending we would be a very hard team to beat next year.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: seafoid on July 10, 2018, 05:05:44 PM
I really can't understand why anyone would want to remove McGeeney after promotion and nearly getting to back-to-back AIQFs. Armagh are firmly in the top ten now with a young panel.
He has a dreadful record in Ulster . Armagh should not have been in D3 in the first place. After 5 years the achievements are not very flķirseach either
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: tonto1888 on July 10, 2018, 06:47:50 PM
Gary McCooyey
Sean Connell
Aidan Nugent
Rian OíNeill
Ciaran Higgins (inj for 2 seasons)
Ben Crealy
Nugent (Maghery)
Barry McCambridge
Young lad plays 6 for Sarsfields

List goes on !! Lot of people missing the point , substantial number of lads not there because of management .

Ben Crealy injured. Not missing because of management
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: tonto1888 on July 10, 2018, 06:49:26 PM
Only adding to last Saturdays squad , add in Kernanís , Carragher from Cross , Andy Mallon , Finn Mo , all early 30ís who still featuring with their clubs . Their experience would have made all the difference coming off bench for last 15 . Mayo team has several over 30ís still playing out of their skin !!

Letís see. Iím 38. Finnian is 3 years yo Beer than me. Mallon is he same age I th No. So not early 30s
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: tonto1888 on July 10, 2018, 06:50:08 PM
Caolan Rafferty
Ethan Rafferty
James Morgan
Declan McKenna
Oisin O'Neill
Ciaran O'Hanlon
Stefan Campbell
Jamie Clarke

At least 6 of those players should be in the starting 15 for Armagh and would significantly strengthen the side so McGeeney is playing with a weakened hand. There may be others also that I have excluded but can't think of. Given the players that he is missing I think he done as well as could be expected as any manager this season. The question is why are those players not playing for the county team?

To the best of my knowledge all players bar Morgan, McKenna, Campbell and O'Neill are unavailable due to injury or are travelling abroad. McKenna I don't understand, he has been up among the best club players in the county consistently for the last 4/5 years but has never really had a decent chance at county level. Morgan too is a great defender at club level but has never consistently produced at county level whilst Campbell after one brilliant year a few years back when he was arguably one of the top forwards in Ireland, appears to have gone backwards since then largely due to lack of committment. O'Neill is still young and it is still unclear if he will be a county level footballer but he certainly has the potential to do so. I don't know the exact reason why these players have not committed but I reckon that McGeeney reckons they have been influenced by people surrounding them. He might not be far wrong. That said, it is their right to choose not to play county football if they so wish but the county team is weaker without them.

   

I disagree regarding Morgan. Think he was our best defender last year. Also wasnít he due to come back after his travels but got injured?
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: tonto1888 on July 10, 2018, 06:56:05 PM
I really can't understand why anyone would want to remove McGeeney after promotion and nearly getting to back-to-back AIQFs. Armagh are firmly in the top ten now with a young panel.

Iím not sure we are top ten to be honest. We would be there or there abouts. His record in Ulster is awful and is one reason why people want him out. The players who are unavailable are another reason, a ridiculous one I reckon tho.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: tonto1888 on July 10, 2018, 06:57:38 PM
Hughes
Hughes McKay Morgan
McCabe Donaghy Sheilds
Vernon Sheidan
Forker Grugan Grimley
Clarke Murnin Campbell

ONE CAN DREAM

Subs
E.Rafferty
Oneill
Ohanlon
Burns
Rowland
McQuillan
Mackin
Dyas

Based on the players that could reasonably be expected to be available a match day 26 (with a view to a fresh broom) could look something like this:

          Hughes
Morgan  McKay  Burns
McIlroy  Connell Shields
Rafferty / Grimley
O OíNeill  Grugan  Forker
McParland  Murnin  Campbell

Subs:
McParland
R OíNeill
J Duffy
McQuillan
Owens
McKenna
Rowland
McCabe
McShane
Hall
Either a Vernon / Donaghy

There are a number of other notable absentees from this list, so there is def a talent pool of at lest 30 guys across the county who could make us a very competitive outfit.

Iíd have Paul Hughes starting. And as tough as it would be on P Burns, he loses his place to Morgan. A fit Sheridan starts in midfield also
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Syferus on July 10, 2018, 07:17:56 PM
I really can't understand why anyone would want to remove McGeeney after promotion and nearly getting to back-to-back AIQFs. Armagh are firmly in the top ten now with a young panel.

Iím not sure we are top ten to be honest. We would be there or there abouts. His record in Ulster is awful and is one reason why people want him out. The players who are unavailable are another reason, a ridiculous one I reckon tho.

Super 8 + Mayo + Armagh. Maybe Cavan might give you a run but from experience a team as good at attacking as Armagh are won't be losing much to the 2018 version of Cavan.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on July 10, 2018, 10:16:03 PM
Rufus now you are trying to put words in my mouth , I do not think over 30ís represent the way forward , but I will state again, the experience some of those players had to offer might have got Armagh over the line on Saturday past , maximum use of resources.

No, but if they had played as you wished, then right now they would have finished the season as part of our squad. Would you have kept them on as each player accumulates another year? If you do not, then you are removing a sizeable chunk of the squad which will necessitate rebuilding. If you keep them on, then you are relying on them again for next year, as they advance to their late thirties.

All hypothetical of course, but simply designed to highlight the nonsense of your thinking. 
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: regal on July 10, 2018, 11:23:51 PM
Iíd presume mcgeeneyís criticism is directed at crossmaglen and the decision of the the OíNeill brothers not to play for Armagh this year. Iíd imagine his criticism is directed at those giving advice to them. They are 2 very talented footballers who would have got Armagh over the line against both fermanagh / Roscommon. They clearly have a decision to make if mcgeeney stays as manager next year. It would be a complete and utter waste of talent if they play only for cross next year. However, nobody should have to beg them to come and play for Armagh

If we have most of our better players back we should be challenging for division 1 next year. Players that I feel are good enough that we could call upon next year that werenít involved against Roscommon are:

- mckay, heffron, Hughes, Morgan, Higgins, ohanlon
- O.OíNeill, crealey, e.rafferty
- Campbell, R.OíNeill, Clarke, c.rafferty, m.mckenna

I donít know the inns and outs of the set up but perhaps mcgeeney could look at improving his back room set by replacing Hollywood / mckeever?

Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Syferus on July 10, 2018, 11:40:06 PM
Iíd presume mcgeeneyís criticism is directed at crossmaglen and the decision of the the OíNeill brothers not to play for Armagh this year. Iíd imagine his criticism is directed at those giving advice to them. They are 2 very talented footballers who would have got Armagh over the line against both fermanagh / Roscommon. They clearly have a decision to make if mcgeeney stays as manager next year. It would be a complete and utter waste of talent if they play only for cross next year. However, nobody should have to beg them to come and play for Armagh

If we have most of our better players back we should be challenging for division 1 next year. Players that I feel are good enough that we could call upon next year that werenít involved against Roscommon are:

- mckay, heffron, Hughes, Morgan, Higgins, ohanlon
- O.OíNeill, crealey, e.rafferty
- Campbell, R.OíNeill, Clarke, c.rafferty, m.mckenna

I donít know the inns and outs of the set up but perhaps mcgeeney could look at improving his back room set by replacing Hollywood / mckeever?

Armagh were a lot more than two players off winning on Saturday.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on July 10, 2018, 11:45:17 PM
Armagh were a lot more than two players off winning on Saturday.

I would agree with that.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: yellowcard on July 10, 2018, 11:50:39 PM
Iíd presume mcgeeneyís criticism is directed at crossmaglen and the decision of the the OíNeill brothers not to play for Armagh this year. Iíd imagine his criticism is directed at those giving advice to them. They are 2 very talented footballers who would have got Armagh over the line against both fermanagh / Roscommon. They clearly have a decision to make if mcgeeney stays as manager next year. It would be a complete and utter waste of talent if they play only for cross next year. However, nobody should have to beg them to come and play for Armagh

If we have most of our better players back we should be challenging for division 1 next year. Players that I feel are good enough that we could call upon next year that werenít involved against Roscommon are:

- mckay, heffron, Hughes, Morgan, Higgins, ohanlon
- O.OíNeill, crealey, e.rafferty
- Campbell, R.OíNeill, Clarke, c.rafferty, m.mckenna

I donít know the inns and outs of the set up but perhaps mcgeeney could look at improving his back room set by replacing Hollywood / mckeever?

Rian OíNeill is a rookie who has yet to pull on a senior county jersey, whilst Oisin left behind as many questions as answers after his debut season in a county jersey last year. They could potentially be good players but they have plenty to prove before they can be considered match winners.

Canpbell and Clarke on the other hand are proven performers at county level and were huge misses.

Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: seafoid on July 11, 2018, 05:28:35 AM
Iíd presume mcgeeneyís criticism is directed at crossmaglen and the decision of the the OíNeill brothers not to play for Armagh this year. Iíd imagine his criticism is directed at those giving advice to them. They are 2 very talented footballers who would have got Armagh over the line against both fermanagh / Roscommon. They clearly have a decision to make if mcgeeney stays as manager next year. It would be a complete and utter waste of talent if they play only for cross next year. However, nobody should have to beg them to come and play for Armagh

If we have most of our better players back we should be challenging for division 1 next year. Players that I feel are good enough that we could call upon next year that werenít involved against Roscommon are:

- mckay, heffron, Hughes, Morgan, Higgins, ohanlon
- O.OíNeill, crealey, e.rafferty
- Campbell, R.OíNeill, Clarke, c.rafferty, m.mckenna

I donít know the inns and outs of the set up but perhaps mcgeeney could look at improving his back room set by replacing Hollywood / mckeever?
Could Armagh not organise a match between the McGeeney loyalists and the exiles to see which team is better ?
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Timís Hero on July 11, 2018, 07:38:40 AM
[No, but if they had played as you wished, then right now they would have finished the season as part of our squad. Would you have kept them on as each player accumulates another year? If you do not, then you are removing a sizeable chunk of the squad which will necessitate rebuilding. If you keep them on, then you are relying on them again for next year, as they advance to their late thirties]



Rufus I understand you donít know much regarding the workings of team panels, but please donít be showing your ignorance on here , this is not U12ís where you could lose half your team , to avoid your scenario above takes planning , {the managers job ie aforementioned 5 year plan which must have been thrown in bin after county board interview}


Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on July 11, 2018, 08:12:03 AM
Rufus I understand you donít know much regarding the workings of team panels, but please donít be showing your ignorance on here , this is not U12ís where you could lose half your team , to avoid your scenario above takes planning ,

Funny, rebuilding takes planning - the manager's job as you've pointed out - and for which you were criticizing Geezer that rebuilding was still required.

ie aforementioned 5 year plan which must have been thrown in bin after county board interview}

Yes, not the first time you've mentioned the 5 year plan and not the first time I'm going to ask you to provide a link to it.

You've shown an excellent knack of pointedly ignoring questions directed at you, so I'm not hopeful you'll produce something here.

Edit - well to be fair, I'll hold my hands up on that one. I had a wee trawl myself there and see a number of references and links to it, - and yet, when I ask about this within County Board circles there is an insistence that five years was never actually stipulated anywhere, and I am aware that Geezer's tenure has been ratified each subsequent year for the following year. The 5 year plan does tend to be used as stick by the Geezer out Brigade.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: seafoid on July 11, 2018, 08:53:43 AM
I had a look there at Geezer's stats over the last 5 years

2014
Relegated to D3
No matches won in Ulster
Reached Quarter Final in championship

2015
Promoted to D2
No matches won in Ulster
Lost to Galway in R2

2016
Relegated to D3
No matches won in Ulster
Lost to Laois in Round 1

2017
Stayed in D3
No matches won in ulster
Reached Quarter Final

2018
Promoted to D3
No matches won in Ulster
Reached Quarter final

In geography the name for this is meandering.

I think focusing on the qualifiers is misleading because it all depends on the draw. If a Geezer team plays a half decent team in Round 1 it will probably lose.

Roscommon for the moment would be a peer of Armaghís and they have won a provincial title in the last 5 years. They have also got to D1 twice.  Even Cavan are more consistent.

Armagh are surely capable of more.

This is important because we need more variety at the top. 20 years ago you had Meath, Kerry, Galway. Mayo  and Kildare operating at a high level (capable of winning an all Ireland) with Armagh and Tyrone ag teacht. 
Now there is Dublin . It's like a monoculture.

There are specific reasons for the declines of Armagh, Down, Meath, Cork but they are also part of a system.

I don't see Armagh going anywhere under the current leadership.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: manfromdelmonte on July 11, 2018, 08:59:34 AM
I had a look there at Geezer's stats over the last 5 years

2014
Relegated to D3
No matches won in Ulster
Reached Quarter Final in championship

2015
Promoted to D2
No matches won in Ulster
Lost to Galway in R2

2016
Relegated to D3
No matches won in Ulster
Lost to Laois in Round 1

2017
Stayed in D3
No matches won in ulster
Reached Quarter Final

2018
Promoted to D3
No matches won in Ulster
Reached Quarter final

In geography the name for this is meandering.

I think focusing on the qualifiers is misleading because it all depends on the draw. If a Geezer team plays a half decent team in Round 1 it will probably lose.

Roscommon for the moment would be a peer of Armaghís and they have won a provincial title in the last 5 years. They have also got to D1 twice.  Even Cavan are more consistent.

Armagh are surely capable of more.

This is important because we need more variety at the top. 20 years ago you had Meath, Kerry, Galway. Mayo  and Kildare operating at a high level (capable of winning an all Ireland) with Armagh and Tyrone ag teacht. 
Now there is Dublin . It's like a monoculture.

There are specific reasons for the declines of Armagh, Down, Meath, Cork but they are also part of a system.

I don't see Armagh going anywhere under the current leadership.
Provincial championship is the bread and butter for county teams
Its a pretty poor record
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: mackers on July 11, 2018, 09:13:18 AM
Provincial championship is the bread and butter for county teams
Its a pretty poor record
The reason for this is straightforward.  Geezer has this Armagh team playing expansive football.  It's great to watch and has led us to watch some seriously entertaining matches over the last couple of years.  Once we come up against a defensive system we struggle.  Needless to say Ulster championship football is defensive for the most part.  Once we move away from this environment into the qualifiers this team can play the way it wants to.  If we have any ambitions in Ulster this is something that the management have to address over the winter months.
With regard to getting players back into the fold I feel Geezer has to relax his control over the players with respect to playing for their clubs.  Obviously if lads are cut off from their clubs when they join the county panel this will have a detrimental effect on players within some of the more ambitious clubs.  It would be naive to imagine him letting them play willy nilly but if there were listed matches like the setup in Monaghan, for example, agreed at the start of the year perhaps he would have a greater take up from senior clubs.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Throw ball on July 11, 2018, 09:16:14 AM
I had a look there at Geezer's stats over the last 5 years

2014
Relegated to D3
No matches won in Ulster
Reached Quarter Final in championship

2015
Promoted to D2
No matches won in Ulster
Lost to Galway in R2

2016
Relegated to D3
No matches won in Ulster
Lost to Laois in Round 1

2017
Stayed in D3
No matches won in ulster
Reached Quarter Final

2018
Promoted to D3
No matches won in Ulster
Reached Quarter final

In geography the name for this is meandering.

I think focusing on the qualifiers is misleading because it all depends on the draw. If a Geezer team plays a half decent team in Round 1 it will probably lose.

Roscommon for the moment would be a peer of Armaghís and they have won a provincial title in the last 5 years. They have also got to D1 twice.  Even Cavan are more consistent.

Armagh are surely capable of more.

This is important because we need more variety at the top. 20 years ago you had Meath, Kerry, Galway. Mayo  and Kildare operating at a high level (capable of winning an all Ireland) with Armagh and Tyrone ag teacht. 
Now there is Dublin . It's like a monoculture.

There are specific reasons for the declines of Armagh, Down, Meath, Cork but they are also part of a system.

I don't see Armagh going anywhere under the current leadership.

Paul Grimley was manager in 2014 and they lost Ulster semi final after a replay to Monaghan.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Dougal Maguire on July 11, 2018, 09:56:31 AM
And lost by a point to Donegal in the All Ireland quarter final
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: seafoid on July 11, 2018, 09:59:43 AM
I had a look there at Geezer's stats over the last 5 years

2014
Relegated to D3
No matches won in Ulster
Reached Quarter Final in championship

2015
Promoted to D2
No matches won in Ulster
Lost to Galway in R2

2016
Relegated to D3
No matches won in Ulster
Lost to Laois in Round 1

2017
Stayed in D3
No matches won in ulster
Reached Quarter Final

2018
Promoted to D3
No matches won in Ulster
Reached Quarter final

In geography the name for this is meandering.

I think focusing on the qualifiers is misleading because it all depends on the draw. If a Geezer team plays a half decent team in Round 1 it will probably lose.

Roscommon for the moment would be a peer of Armaghís and they have won a provincial title in the last 5 years. They have also got to D1 twice.  Even Cavan are more consistent.

Armagh are surely capable of more.

This is important because we need more variety at the top. 20 years ago you had Meath, Kerry, Galway. Mayo  and Kildare operating at a high level (capable of winning an all Ireland) with Armagh and Tyrone ag teacht. 
Now there is Dublin . It's like a monoculture.

There are specific reasons for the declines of Armagh, Down, Meath, Cork but they are also part of a system.

I don't see Armagh going anywhere under the current leadership.

Paul Grimley was manager in 2014 and they lost Ulster semi final after a replay to Monaghan.
My mistake .Anyway it is a poor record
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: bennydorano on July 11, 2018, 01:10:01 PM
We're a small enough county who experienced a decade of relatively huge success, we've just just went back to our normal level. The people raised on the success of the Noughties have a lot of unrealistic expectations.

1953, 77, 02 & 03, We're due another great team in circa 2027/8.

Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Timís Hero on July 11, 2018, 01:34:39 PM
Didnít Jarlath Burns say the same thing on the Sunday Game a few years ago ?? With attitude like that Armagh will constantly be a yo yo team , time to rip up that template and start again .
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Captain Obvious on July 11, 2018, 02:20:13 PM
2018
Promoted to D3
No matches won in Ulster
Reached Quarter final

So its Tyrone v Armagh in Croke Park this Saturday I'd better buy my ticket...
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on July 11, 2018, 02:31:05 PM
Didnít Jarlath Burns say the same thing on the Sunday Game a few years ago ?? With attitude like that Armagh will constantly be a yo yo team , time to rip up that template and start again .

Rebuild?
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: omagh_gael on July 11, 2018, 03:11:33 PM
How many club games did the county men play this year? In Tyrone or lads have played 6/7 matches so far (out of 12 games in total).
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Timís Hero on July 11, 2018, 03:36:17 PM
To rebuild you need to start at the foundations and work your way up , then put a roof on ,make it weathertight and only then do you worry about the finishes , fixtures and fittings. Paramount to a successful build is using a competent contractor with a track record of delivering projects on time within budget and to the necessary quality. Your contractor should also be able to demonstrate his track record.
If you follow the analogy you would realise Armagh are failing on all fronts , strategic long term planning needed like Dublin,Tyrone , Kerry .
If we follow your thought process , let McGeeney gather up whoever he can at the start of the year and see how we get on , then make excuses for a couple of months and go again.
You might be happy with that but a lot of Armagh people disagree and would like change , not for change sake , but for the betterment of all things Armagh .
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Solo_run on July 11, 2018, 03:44:30 PM
To rebuild you need to start at the foundations and work your way up , then put a roof on ,make it weathertight and only then do you worry about the finishes , fixtures and fittings. Paramount to a successful build is using a competent contractor with a track record of delivering projects on time within budget and to the necessary quality. Your contractor should also be able to demonstrate his track record.
If you follow the analogy you would realise Armagh are failing on all fronts , strategic long term planning needed like Dublin,Tyrone , Kerry .
If we follow your thought process , let McGeeney gather up whoever he can at the start of the year and see how we get on , then make excuses for a couple of months and go again.
You might be happy with that but a lot of Armagh people disagree and would like change , not for change sake , but for the betterment of all things Armagh .

Then what if this is all we have to offer?

Just on a side note would Grimley not consider coming back in to the setup?
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Timís Hero on July 11, 2018, 03:49:07 PM
In my opinion it is widely accepted we are not utilising our resources to the maximum , for whatever reasons.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Solo_run on July 11, 2018, 04:12:53 PM
Possibly not.

In you opinion who do you think should be managing Armagh?
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: keeperlit on July 11, 2018, 04:24:39 PM
We're a small enough county who experienced a decade of relatively huge success, we've just just went back to our normal level. The people raised on the success of the Noughties have a lot of unrealistic expectations.

1953, 77, 02 & 03, We're due another great team in circa 2027/8.

With respect, I think this is a terrible attitude and if this is the general attitude of the county then we deserve to be in this continuous state of transition that we have found ourselves in since 2007.

Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: tonto1888 on July 11, 2018, 04:43:04 PM
Possibly not.

In you opinion who do you think should be managing Armagh?

Donít expect an actual answer to this
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Solo_run on July 11, 2018, 04:54:08 PM
Possibly not.

In you opinion who do you think should be managing Armagh?

Donít expect an actual answer to this

If they are going to make their first 20 posts about how poor McGeeney has been then they should at least offer an alternative.




Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Timís Hero on July 11, 2018, 05:06:37 PM
That I cannot answer because I donít know who is available or interested, I do think it is too much for one man and think we would need a management team with experts in the areas of S&C , fitness , tactics , coaching and analysis , nutrition , logistics and physio , all egos parked at the door and leave anyone looking huge expenses on the lucrative club circuit . Not a case of what can Armagh do for me but what can I do for Armagh !!!
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: haveaharp on July 11, 2018, 05:21:24 PM
all egos parked at the door

That could be an issue for some of the absentees
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Orchard park on July 11, 2018, 05:24:51 PM
This should be renamed Armagh vs Armagh
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rossfan on July 11, 2018, 06:30:14 PM
This should be renamed Armagh vs Armagh
;D
We seem to have been expelled about 20 pages ago.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: tonto1888 on July 11, 2018, 08:15:54 PM
That I cannot answer because I donít know who is available or interested, I do think it is too much for one man and think we would need a management team with experts in the areas of S&C , fitness , tactics , coaching and analysis , nutrition , logistics and physio , all egos parked at the door and leave anyone looking huge expenses on the lucrative club circuit . Not a case of what can Armagh do for me but what can I do for Armagh !!!

In an ideal world who would you like in?
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Timís Hero on July 11, 2018, 08:50:47 PM
Brian Cody
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Timís Hero on July 11, 2018, 08:58:17 PM
Leads his county , demands the best from all around him , no problem with rebuilding issues , no problems with withdrawals from panel , respected by supporters , players , administrators , opponents alike for his honesty and dedication to Kilkenny , no ego , Kilkenny first , Kilkenny last and Kilkenny  everything in between.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: imtommygunn on July 11, 2018, 09:44:04 PM
Only one flaw in that proposal...
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Timís Hero on July 11, 2018, 09:48:32 PM
I know he has a job , but good template to follow if ever a vacancy arose .
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: keeperlit on July 11, 2018, 10:01:13 PM
Only one flaw in that proposal...
[/quote

What , No vacancy???
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: imtommygunn on July 11, 2018, 10:02:47 PM
Only one flaw in that proposal...
[/quote

What , No vacancy???

Lol. Yep that's it.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: illdecide on July 12, 2018, 12:28:57 AM
To rebuild you need to start at the foundations and work your way up , then put a roof on ,make it weathertight and only then do you worry about the finishes , fixtures and fittings. Paramount to a successful build is using a competent contractor with a track record of delivering projects on time within budget and to the necessary quality. Your contractor should also be able to demonstrate his track record.
If you follow the analogy you would realise Armagh are failing on all fronts , strategic long term planning needed like Dublin,Tyrone , Kerry .
If we follow your thought process , let McGeeney gather up whoever he can at the start of the year and see how we get on , then make excuses for a couple of months and go again.
You might be happy with that but a lot of Armagh people disagree and would like change , not for change sake , but for the betterment of all things Armagh .

What if you have a great contractor but when he starts digging out the foundations he realises the ground conditions are worse than previously thought, after digging down deeper until he has good CBRs he then realises the concrete wasn't what he ordered. He wanted 35n concrete but all he got was a lean mix, this was discovered after the pour so Contractor said "f**k this... I'm gonna have to start over again as this will never do". Materials are not always the quality you'd like them to be 🤔
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Timís Hero on July 12, 2018, 07:57:49 AM
Just to follow the analogy , you get a site investigation report done to identify ground conditions before you start and donít accept sub-standard materials through the gate, have someone check you are receiving what you are paying for, if they arenít capable of quality control replace them. So we have a situation where we have dug and poured the founds which all have to come out again because the contractor canít manage the job , who pays to put it all right ? The client or the contractor ?

Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: illdecide on July 12, 2018, 03:34:00 PM
Just to follow the analogy , you get a site investigation report done to identify ground conditions before you start and donít accept sub-standard materials through the gate, have someone check you are receiving what you are paying for, if they arenít capable of quality control replace them. So we have a situation where we have dug and poured the founds which all have to come out again because the contractor canít manage the job , who pays to put it all right ? The client or the contractor ?

Well just to add to that a ground investigation will give you an indication of the ground conditions in that particular spot but does not gurantee you that 2m away that it could be completley different. Normally it's afairly accurate indication but still not 100%...Anyway enough of this shite.

Just come clean with KmcG and call it what you really want to say, you believe him to be rank and would like Armagh to replace him...is that too hard to say?
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Timís Hero on July 12, 2018, 04:38:11 PM
I would think that sums up what a lot of Armagh people think , CB probably think differently though, but one can only live in hope !!!
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: JP on July 12, 2018, 06:14:42 PM
I would think that sums up what a lot of Armagh people think , CB probably think differently though, but one can only live in hope !!!

I would definitely say it a minority thankfully, especially among the Armagh core support who go to the McKenna cup and National League matches.

Geezer won't be going anywhere this year, or less he decides he had enough.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Timís Hero on July 12, 2018, 06:26:53 PM
Well spoken , self elected president and spokesman for Armagh core support , if you donít go to a McKenna cup match you have no opinion !
What about the thousands who wonít go because they vote with their feet !
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: tonto1888 on July 12, 2018, 06:40:00 PM
Well spoken , self elected president and spokesman for Armagh core support , if you donít go to a McKenna cup match you have no opinion !
What about the thousands who wonít go because they vote with their feet !

Thatís not what he/she said. And youíve a cheek calling someone else self elected spokesman for Armagh support
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Timís Hero on July 12, 2018, 07:03:30 PM
As I have already pointed out Iím only expressing my own opinion
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: tonto1888 on July 12, 2018, 07:06:33 PM
As is JP
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Timís Hero on July 12, 2018, 07:59:03 PM
After the abuse I have taken on here since expressing an opinion contrary to the KKMcG club I feel entitled to be a little sarcastic.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: tonto1888 on July 12, 2018, 09:18:53 PM
After the abuse I have taken on here since expressing an opinion contrary to the KKMcG club I feel entitled to be a little sarcastic.

What abuse have you got?
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: redzone on July 12, 2018, 10:38:40 PM
Go to bed you halfwit Tonya
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: armaghniac on July 12, 2018, 10:46:25 PM
Go to bed you halfwit Tonya

Skating on thin ice!
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: smelmoth on July 14, 2018, 09:37:58 AM
Mothy

To be quite honest I think the 2 points you make are linked and McGeeney is putting up a smokescreen to deflect from anybody looking in his direction.
Tactically McGeeney has wasted 3 years trying to introduce a system which didnít suit or wasnít understood by the players , system was based on a defensive set up with runners coming from deep a la Jimmy Donegal. A lot of players were not happy or comfortable with system and several requested change of tactics which was met with usual McGeeney diplomacy , this ended up with friction in the camp and withdrawal of a number of players , the players who stayed on have a devotion to McGeeney and would eat grass for him but some donít really have the ability for county football at a higher level.
McGeeney seemed to soften his approach last year and gathered up the best of the rest and let the players express themselves a bit more , progress was made through league and things were on the up , however a complete tactical melt down in Newry coincided with a return to the system which again didnít suit /wasnít understood by the players and I feel they thought they were thrown under the bus for performance. The players after a shaky start through the qualifiers threw off the shackles and played expressive football that they are capable of and received all the plaudits.
However when the Tyrone match came round the management reverted back to the system and the rest is history, the lads devoted to McGeeney stayed ,but a lot thought whatís the point !!management donít trust us to play and they will revert back to their default position at all times , hence withdrawals from squad en masse . Then McGeeney has a go at everyone else for withdrawals , start with man in the mirror.
Can McGeeney be trusted with another crop of players ?? I wouldnít think so, the cycle will just keep repeating for another 4 /5 years . Strictly my own opinion based on what I see and read.

There is a lot there I canít comment on. Iím not privy to conversations within the camp.

I do agree that there have been tactical meltdowns under McGeeney and therefore tactically management should be questioned. I do agree that there has been a tendency to revert to negative tactics when playing bigger sides and that this has yet to yield any dividend. But Iím intrigued that youíre insight from within the camp suggests that it was the players that threw off the shackles rather than the management who removed the shackles. Any detail to back your view up?

It would be blind stupidity to deny the mistakes of the McGeeney era but it would be equally stupid to not pause and check if he had in fact learned from the mistakes before tossing him overboard. Hence a review

Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: smelmoth on July 14, 2018, 09:41:57 AM
Only adding to last Saturdays squad , add in Kernanís , Carragher from Cross , Andy Mallon , Finn Mo , all early 30ís who still featuring with their clubs . Their experience would have made all the difference coming off bench for last 15 . Mayo team has several over 30ís still playing out of their skin !!

Is that the sound of a barrel being scraped?
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: smelmoth on July 14, 2018, 10:10:31 AM
Be careful what you wish for Tim. If you think McGeeney isn't the man for the job then you should suggest who you think is the man. You clearly have an anti McGeeney agenda but you have to be realistic. We do not currently have the players at present to make super 8's. You have listed out players who were either fringe squad members previously or who are past their best.

That is the crux of the matter for the 'Geezer Out Brigade'. They feel there is potential there that is way beyond the reality.

With all due respect I disagree

Mayo have the players to get to the Super 8s but didnít get there. Thatís sport. But to say that we canít or donít produce players to compete with the like of Kildare, Monaghan or Roscommon is wrong.

We absolutely can compete at that level. We have been to the Quarter finals twice in recent years.

I wonder are Croatian management talking down the aspirations and capabilities of a small nation?
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on July 14, 2018, 05:48:24 PM
The difference in quality between Roscommon and Tyrone shows that an appearance in the Super 8ís would have been a disaster for Armagh.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Solo_run on July 14, 2018, 06:32:19 PM
Last week we were diasappointed to be knocked out but this we I think most of us would be happy. Whilst it would have been nice to see Roscommon do well, I think 15+ beatings are going to be the norm over the next few weeks.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: smelmoth on July 14, 2018, 07:31:50 PM
We're a small enough county who experienced a decade of relatively huge success, we've just just went back to our normal level. The people raised on the success of the Noughties have a lot of unrealistic expectations.

1953, 77, 02 & 03, We're due another great team in circa 2027/8.

I wouldnít argue with that. But the frequency with which we reach AI finals is if no relevance to whether we could expect to win a provincial championship match or to reach the AI last 8 via either of the 2 routes
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: smelmoth on July 14, 2018, 07:35:42 PM
The difference in quality between Roscommon and Tyrone shows that an appearance in the Super 8ís would have been a disaster for Armagh.

I disagree. We need to play these games.

A new thing the super 8s does through up is a game the following week after a collapse. In Roscommonís case at home to a team also beat the week before. The response if any will be interesting to watch.

Whatever the truth is for Roscommon there is no point hiding from it. The same for ourselves
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: DuffleKing on July 16, 2018, 03:46:06 PM

Would we have fared any better than the Rossies?
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Syferus on July 16, 2018, 03:51:10 PM

Would we have fared any better than the Rossies?

Probably. We blow very hot and cold. Who knows what Roscommon team will turn up next weekend.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: APM on July 16, 2018, 03:54:38 PM

Would we have fared any better than the Rossies?

No!  It would have set us back and we would have had games against Donegal and Dublin to look forward to. I think you need to have a couple of years in Divsion 1 to get up to the speed of those teams.  But the reality is that there isn't a super 8.  There might be a Super 3 or 4 and then very good 2 and another couple to make up the numbers.  Armagh would have been there to make up the numbers this year.  For those games to be anyway useful for a team's development, they need to be competitive and Roscommon were anything but on Saturday and they were 6pts better than Armagh the previous week. 
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: yellowcard on July 16, 2018, 03:57:25 PM

Would we have fared any better than the Rossies?

Definitely not. Tyrone done the exact same thing to a better quality Armagh side last season. It would have been a whitewash if we had got to the Super 8s, it was a blessing in disguise that we didn't.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Solo_run on July 16, 2018, 03:58:30 PM

Would we have fared any better than the Rossies?

No!  It would have set us back and we would have had games against Donegal and Dublin to look forward to. I think you need to have a couple of years in Divsion 1 to get up to the speed of those teams.  But the reality is that there isn't a super 8.  There might be a Super 3 or 4 and then very good 2 and another couple to make up the numbers.  Armagh would have been there to make up the numbers this year.  For those games to be anyway useful for a team's development, they need to be competitive and Roscommon were anything but on Saturday and they were 6pts better than Armagh the previous week.

I get where you are coming from, they need to experience the big games to learn from them.

However, I don't think I could watch Armagh getting hammered by Tyrone two years running and can't see the benefit in it either.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: smelmoth on July 16, 2018, 05:50:49 PM
I donít see the point of not testing yourself?

What golfer would turn down an entry to the Masters?  Certainly not any aiming to test or improve themselves.

Division 3 and many of the qualifier games provide no meaningful test
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Captain Obvious on July 16, 2018, 05:58:22 PM

Would we have fared any better than the Rossies?
No as teams that defend poorly against Tyrone are always well beaten.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: DuffleKing on July 16, 2018, 08:53:24 PM

There's probably a 'super 6' currently woth Roscommon and kildare making up the numbers. The rest are going to provide competitive games.

Last year at the same stage we lost to Tyrone by 18 points. It's hard to make an argument that we were better equipped this year to give an account of ourselves.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: armaghniac on July 16, 2018, 10:46:06 PM

There's probably a 'super 6' currently woth Roscommon and kildare making up the numbers. The rest are going to provide competitive games.

Last year at the same stage we lost to Tyrone by 18 points. It's hard to make an argument that we were better equipped this year to give an account of ourselves.

Armagh, Roscommon, Kildare are in the top 12, but not really able to mix it with the top 5 or 6.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Syferus on July 16, 2018, 11:40:33 PM

There's probably a 'super 6' currently woth Roscommon and kildare making up the numbers. The rest are going to provide competitive games.

Last year at the same stage we lost to Tyrone by 18 points. It's hard to make an argument that we were better equipped this year to give an account of ourselves.

Armagh, Roscommon, Kildare are in the top 12, but not really able to mix it with the top 5 or 6.

Donít lump us in with those other two. Soon to be three seasons in four in D1, a provincial title and consecutive last eight appearances mean not even your magic maths could remove Roscommon from the top eight teams in the country.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rossfan on July 16, 2018, 11:50:39 PM
4-24.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Syferus on July 16, 2018, 11:59:09 PM
4-24.

Are you sad that McStay is taking about changes heíll be doing in the winter break? Your one man crusade really didnít get off the ground at all this time.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: smelmoth on July 18, 2018, 07:51:17 PM
Would Tim be away for 10 nights or the full fortnight?  Or did the nurses do a head count?
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Owen Brannigan on July 18, 2018, 09:36:42 PM
Head count.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Timís Hero on July 19, 2018, 08:20:46 AM
Busy at work !!! Will be getting a warning shortly Iím sure from all the ďrighteous and true ďArmagh supporters for not posting some shite at least twice a day to allow them a sanctimonious reply from on high . (See orchardfans.com)
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on July 19, 2018, 10:58:37 AM
Just come clean with KmcG and call it what you really want to say, you believe him to be rank and would like Armagh to replace him...is that too hard to say?
I would think that sums up what a lot of Armagh people think , CB probably think differently though, but one can only live in hope !!!

The County Board though are the people, in that they are there as an elected representative of each Club and are present to reflect the views of their membership within that Club. I sense no widespread urge for change and certainly do not envisage a debate that would challenge Geezer's position ahead of 2019. If that turns out to be the case, then it would be interesting to consider a definition of your "lot of Armagh people". What is a lot? Hundreds? Thousands? There are of course malcontents but I don't believe they are anywhere near a majority. 
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Timís Hero on July 19, 2018, 12:22:09 PM
I would sense a wide spread desire for change as the attendances have dropped at an alarming rate , and the majority of people you talk to at club games refuse to watch Armagh,.
You can be sure there will be no debate on McGeenyís future , same as last year where the clubs werenít informed the reappointment was on the agenda and no debate was held at club level to let delegates express the opinions of their members , not very democratic !!!
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Timís Hero on July 19, 2018, 12:24:20 PM
Couldnít chance a repeat of the Kildare scenario !!
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Solo_run on July 19, 2018, 12:25:13 PM
I would sense a wide spread desire for change as the attendances have dropped at an alarming rate , and the majority of people you talk to at club games refuse to watch Armagh,.
You can be sure there will be no debate on McGeenyís future , same as last year where the clubs werenít informed the reappointment was on the agenda and no debate was held at club level to let delegates express the opinions of their members , not very democratic !!!

Because of McGeeney? or because of their style of play?
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on July 19, 2018, 01:08:46 PM
I would sense a wide spread desire for change as the attendances have dropped at an alarming rate , and the majority of people you talk to at club games refuse to watch Armagh,.
You can be sure there will be no debate on McGeenyís future , same as last year where the clubs werenít informed the reappointment was on the agenda and no debate was held at club level to let delegates express the opinions of their members , not very democratic !!!

Every agenda item can be discussed, can it not? If people have misgivings, do they not raise those when the agenda item comes up for discussion? Have you considered the possibility that there is no debate at club level because there is not the level of feeling on this issue that you believe there is?
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Timís Hero on July 19, 2018, 02:53:49 PM
I would think that notice should be served to the clubs to allow a discussion among the members to ensure the clubs delegate are mandated prior to the CB meeting , also allows them time to prepare their argument either for or against .
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on July 19, 2018, 03:07:38 PM
I would think that notice should be served to the clubs to allow a discussion among the members to ensure the clubs delegate are mandated prior to the CB meeting , also allows them time to prepare their argument either for or against .

You don't see the silence from the delegates on this issue as evidence that there simply is not the groundswell of opinion that your discussions around the County would have you believe is there?
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: larryin89 on July 19, 2018, 03:28:53 PM
Club delegates have to tow the line or CB will just get revenge ,it's a balls of a system . Like most "democratic" systems they are not democratic.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on July 19, 2018, 03:30:56 PM
Club delegates have to tow the line or CB will just get revenge ,it's a balls of a system . Like most "democratic" systems they are not democratic.

Thanks for that Larry. Good to see you.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: larryin89 on July 19, 2018, 04:39:56 PM
Club delegates have to tow the line or CB will just get revenge ,it's a balls of a system . Like most "democratic" systems they are not democratic.

Thanks for that Larry. Good to see you.

I just don't get what club delegates do except for turning up for CB meeetings and then get told what way it's going to go.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Timís Hero on July 19, 2018, 08:33:27 PM
Spot on analysis Larry , lack of debate at CB meeting in no way can be taken as support . The default position of Armagh CB historically is to keep the incumbent in position even if there no widespread support for them and the dogs in the street know the team is underperforming , this is at all levels.

Lazy leadership , saves a lot of hassle looking for a replacement.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Timís Hero on July 19, 2018, 09:31:00 PM
Succession plan is being put in place very similar to last one , Tony Mac to come in for a year with McGeeney to appease the Cross playing contingent and McGeeney detractors ,with McGeeney and co.departing at the end of 2019 regardless of results. McEntee then gets five year deal

Could be all speculation but you heard it here first , word from the West is that McEntee already gone from Mayo.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on July 20, 2018, 08:36:59 AM
Spot on analysis Larry , lack of debate at CB meeting in no way can be taken as support . The default position of Armagh CB historically is to keep the incumbent in position even if there no widespread support for them and the dogs in the street know the team is underperforming , this is at all levels. Lazy leadership , saves a lot of hassle looking for a replacement.

Succession plan is being put in place very similar to last one , Tony Mac to come in for a year with McGeeney to appease the Cross playing contingent and McGeeney detractors ,with McGeeney and co.departing at the end of 2019 regardless of results. McEntee then gets five year deal

Could be all speculation but you heard it here first , word from the West is that McEntee already gone from Mayo.

Just curious as to whether or not you see any sort of contradiction in your last two posts? I might go to the "dogs in the street" to see what they think! 
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Timís Hero on July 20, 2018, 09:00:52 AM
To be honest Rufus I think the succession plan is only a rumour ,someone putting 2 + 2 together and getting 5 , that kind of forward planning is way beyond the CB abilities imo.

But hey Rufus you keep sniping away there , analyse everybody elseís posts and pass judgement on them without ever having an original thought of you own.

Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: illdecide on July 20, 2018, 09:21:42 AM
Tim you're that blinded by your hatred for KmcG's managerial position that you'd give the job to anyone but him, I can agree that at times we have been naive in certain games and sometimes our tactics have not been ideal but no-one is perfect and as long as we learn from them and move on then great. We are a small County and traditionally have been mediocre for majority of our existence but for the noughties where we clicked on a really exceptional bunch of footballers at the one time and now people are getting carried away with themselves from that era and expect us to be competing for All Irelands every year...smell the bacon saan.
What makes Armagh as a County better than the other 31 Counties or the right to be better than the other 31? Tony MAC may well get his chance some day but i don't believe he'd do much better than what KMcG is doing, he may well get a few more Cross men on board but for me at this moment in time won't strengthen us much more than what we're currently at.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on July 20, 2018, 09:38:40 AM
To be honest Rufus I think the succession plan is only a rumour ,someone putting 2 + 2 together and getting 5 , that kind of forward planning is way beyond the CB abilities imo.

But hey Rufus you keep sniping away there , analyse everybody elseís posts and pass judgement on them without ever having an original thought of you own.

Your thinking appears to be all over the place here Tim, as you put forward two posts last night, the second of which appeared to be at odds with the first, and now you have rowed back on that second post.

Whilst I would disagree that there is widespread opinion out there that McGeeney should go, nevertheless your line of argument and thinking - if indeed there is thinking - has little in the way of the originality that you accuse me of lacking. There are those who want Geezer to go, and they tend to be quite vocal on internet sites such as this - they tend to be less vocal though where it counts, and simply apportion blame on Geezer for players that are missing and have a misplaced view of the reality of Armagh's place in the Gaelic football world.

A lot of my responses to your posts are to ask questions which I hope will get you to think in more detail about the issue rather than repeating the  "McGeeney Out" mantra, ad nauseum.  If you're finding that too much of a challenge, just shout and I'll leave you well alone with the megaphone.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Timís Hero on July 20, 2018, 12:43:27 PM
Rufus you really cannot fathom that someone would have an opinion that differs to your own , but please try to keep up , your habit of selectively rubbishing a point from the previous post while ignoring the substantive issue is becoming boring.

I will go over it again for those somewhat challenged that they cannot get their head around the idea, Armagh do not have to be mediocre !!! For decades they have wasted the playing resources of the county by having no strategic planning on how to utilise great support base , good financial backers ,good players and good facilities. This pattern is broken once every 12 years or so when an individual or two decide to break the cycle and short term structures are put in place to allow progress , as soon as the individuals leave its back to square one .

My thoughts are that Armagh now have an ideal opportunity to put the planning in place to position all the county teams in a competive place for the next decade , what has gone on for the previous 10 years is not fit for purpose!!

Who fills to roles within the plan is another debate entirely.

Would you be able to handle that much change Rufus ?? Get off your knees !!!
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Timís Hero on July 20, 2018, 02:13:54 PM
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/board-must-act-now-or-cork-football-will-get-worse-goulding-37137046.html
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Owen Brannigan on July 20, 2018, 04:54:57 PM
People telling Tim that they wonít go and watch Armagh?

Anyone considered that it could be the horrendous increase in costs of travel, food and most of all entry to the games while seeing no increase in their incomes in real terms is a major factor.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Captain Obvious on July 20, 2018, 06:10:17 PM
Time for illdecide to lock this thread. Game over almost two weeks ago now.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: seafoid on July 20, 2018, 06:42:45 PM
I can't understand how any Armagh fan would support Geezer continuing. Galway hurlers had a lot of poor managers over the last 29 years, drawing fans through the wringer again and again but none of them got 4 years plus on the back of such mediocrity. The  problem with serial managerial incompetence is what it does to the spirit of the players.  Armagh should be at the level of Roscommon at the very least.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47w3PLgybEA
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: CornUladh02 on July 20, 2018, 06:47:31 PM
Succession plan is being put in place very similar to last one , Tony Mac to come in for a year with McGeeney to appease the Cross playing contingent and McGeeney detractors ,with McGeeney and co.departing at the end of 2019 regardless of results. McEntee then gets five year deal

Could be all speculation but you heard it here first , word from the West is that McEntee already gone from Mayo.
A mcentee geezer partnership won't work whatsoever even if it is for a year. Mcentee heavily linked with other intercounty jobs in ulster for 2019 but he may wait until the Armagh post becomes vacant again.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Orchard park on July 20, 2018, 07:09:48 PM
Is it based on mcentees results with Cross or his money grabbing years travelling to Dublin and Mayo tgst he is deemed the saviour
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: tonto1888 on July 20, 2018, 08:14:05 PM
I can't understand how any Armagh fan would support Geezer continuing. Galway hurlers had a lot of poor managers over the last 29 years, drawing fans through the wringer again and again but none of them got 4 years plus on the back of such mediocrity. The  problem with serial managerial incompetence is what it does to the spirit of the players.  Armagh should be at the level of Roscommon at the very least.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47w3PLgybEA

The players spirits seem to be fine
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on July 20, 2018, 09:13:09 PM
I can't understand how any Armagh fan would support Geezer continuing. Galway hurlers had a lot of poor managers over the last 29 years, drawing fans through the wringer again and again but none of them got 4 years plus on the back of such mediocrity. The  problem with serial managerial incompetence is what it does to the spirit of the players.  Armagh should be at the level of Roscommon at the very least.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47w3PLgybEA

The players spirits seem to be fine

I would argue that the win against Clare was based on the excellenc team spirit displayed. The McGeeney out brigade will tell you it was down to luck and / or a Clare collapse.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: seafoid on July 20, 2018, 11:43:58 PM
I can't understand how any Armagh fan would support Geezer continuing. Galway hurlers had a lot of poor managers over the last 29 years, drawing fans through the wringer again and again but none of them got 4 years plus on the back of such mediocrity. The  problem with serial managerial incompetence is what it does to the spirit of the players.  Armagh should be at the level of Roscommon at the very least.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47w3PLgybEA

The players spirits seem to be fine

I would argue that the win against Clare was based on the excellenc team spirit displayed. The McGeeney out brigade will tell you it was down to luck and / or a Clare collapse.
Armagh should be reaching the last 8 regularly.
Beating Clare should be something routine for a country like Armagh. 
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Owen Brannigan on July 21, 2018, 08:40:16 AM
I can't understand how any Armagh fan would support Geezer continuing. Galway hurlers had a lot of poor managers over the last 29 years, drawing fans through the wringer again and again but none of them got 4 years plus on the back of such mediocrity. The  problem with serial managerial incompetence is what it does to the spirit of the players.  Armagh should be at the level of Roscommon at the very least.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47w3PLgybEA

The players spirits seem to be fine

I would argue that the win against Clare was based on the excellenc team spirit displayed. The McGeeney out brigade will tell you it was down to luck and / or a Clare collapse.
Armagh should be reaching the last 8 regularly.
Beating Clare should be something routine for a country like Armagh.

If you were old enough like Rufus you would know that beating Clare has always been an achievement for Armagh
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: tonto1888 on July 21, 2018, 08:44:01 AM
I can't understand how any Armagh fan would support Geezer continuing. Galway hurlers had a lot of poor managers over the last 29 years, drawing fans through the wringer again and again but none of them got 4 years plus on the back of such mediocrity. The  problem with serial managerial incompetence is what it does to the spirit of the players.  Armagh should be at the level of Roscommon at the very least.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47w3PLgybEA

The players spirits seem to be fine

I would argue that the win against Clare was based on the excellenc team spirit displayed. The McGeeney out brigade will tell you it was down to luck and / or a Clare collapse.
Armagh should be reaching the last 8 regularly.
Beating Clare should be something routine for a country like Armagh.

Why should we be reaching the last 8 regularly?
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: Owen Brannigan on July 21, 2018, 09:09:33 AM
There has always been a need for a John the Baptist like management in Armagh, e.g. the two Brianís. Someone to carry on the job of keeping the pot simmering while waiting for the next Messiah to come along and restore the glory days. McGeeney played that part in Kildare and again with Armagh. Unlike some other managers he is a Bovril like character for players, they love him or hate (maybe a bit strong - like Bovril) him.  In both tenures as manager, the players appear to be hanging on his every word and willing to follow him to the end.

Other managers in nearby counties can hold on to their discontented who then snap immediately they leave the group but are willing to conform and play while there. McGeeney is what he is and you accept that or yammer on like Tim.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on July 21, 2018, 10:16:37 AM
There has always been a need for a John the Baptist like management in Armagh, e.g. the two Brianís. Someone to carry on the job of keeping the pot simmering while waiting for the next Messiah to come along and restore the glory days. McGeeney played that part in Kildare and again with Armagh. Unlike some other managers he is a Bovril like character for players, they love him or hate (maybe a bit strong - like Bovril) him.  In both tenures as manager, the players appear to be hanging on his every word and willing to follow him to the end.

Other managers in nearby counties can hold on to their discontented who then snap immediately they leave the group but are willing to conform and play while there. McGeeney is what he is and you accept that or yammer on like Tim.

I would agree with a lot of that Owen but the difference is this the 2 Brianís were able to get the best players in the county playing consistently with the team and they actually went and won stuff and competed. Under Geezer Armagh have not pushed on in my opinion. There are many reasons for that, and a lot of them are not his direct fault, but I think when you look at where the county is at and where it could be then it is worrying in my opinion what the next step is. In 4 years there hasnít been an actual championship win. 2 decent runs in the Qualifiers. Out of Division 3 but only at the second time of asking. And year on year the same debate. Yes he is a Bovril type character. I believe he could have an important role to play in the county set up but he is very much the Roy Keane type character. Fort right in his opinions but missing other key elements to make the breakthrough that could be made.

There is a need for root and branch change. I have been saying for years that the tree is being grown for the top
If the leaves downwards when it should be the other way. There should be a review of where the money is being spent on the senior teams and see where some of it can be reallocated to schools and very young underage.  I had a very interesting conversation with a man who is very on the button with these things. Croke Park have to match find any money available for coaching or development projects. How about the clubs, in conjunction with the county, look at appointing coaching officers with Geezer as the Ďbossí. 2 North, 2 mid, 2 south. The clubs who provide the finance get access to a coach. Give them a 2 year brief with targets for development. Have a better structure for local blitzís at u12 instead of the ramshackle league that is run with teams having to go outside of the county for blitzes. Have a more competitive schools competition. I was speaking to Diarmuid Marsden recently about a primary school county final we played against each other all those years ago. Those final teams provided something like 10 players who played inter county minor and 4 that played senior!!  Build from the bottom up not top down.

Iím soccer the likes of Belgium did that 15-20 years ago and are consistently producing excellent footballers now. A focused, unified, simple system with proper people in it and proper coaching happening regularly from the kids are 8-9
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: seafoid on July 21, 2018, 10:41:36 AM
I can't understand how any Armagh fan would support Geezer continuing. Galway hurlers had a lot of poor managers over the last 29 years, drawing fans through the wringer again and again but none of them got 4 years plus on the back of such mediocrity. The  problem with serial managerial incompetence is what it does to the spirit of the players.  Armagh should be at the level of Roscommon at the very least.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47w3PLgybEA

The players spirits seem to be fine

I would argue that the win against Clare was based on the excellenc team spirit displayed. The McGeeney out brigade will tell you it was down to luck and / or a Clare collapse.
Armagh should be reaching the last 8 regularly.
Beating Clare should be something routine for a country like Armagh.

Why should we be reaching the last 8 regularly?
Because what 8 teams are likely to be better than Armagh given the pick ? Dubs, Kerry, maybe Cork, Galway, Mayo and a few from Ulster.
Armagh need a competent manager and a 5 year plan. If Galway could do it so can Armagh
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: imtommygunn on July 21, 2018, 11:56:31 AM
Galway have a very good conveyor belt of talent coming through which only really tyrone, kerry and dublin can match or better. Not many counties have that. Their success now comes of the back of a very good u21 team, a very good corofin team, a few guys who have ploughed away for a few years and built experience and guys who were successful at underage in the past.

Armagh don't have as good as that to pick from. Galway are a "sleeping giant" and not really comparable.

That being said if armagh got their house in order they should be round the top 8.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: DuffleKing on July 21, 2018, 12:47:40 PM
There has always been a need for a John the Baptist like management in Armagh, e.g. the two Brianís. Someone to carry on the job of keeping the pot simmering while waiting for the next Messiah to come along and restore the glory days. McGeeney played that part in Kildare and again with Armagh. Unlike some other managers he is a Bovril like character for players, they love him or hate (maybe a bit strong - like Bovril) him.  In both tenures as manager, the players appear to be hanging on his every word and willing to follow him to the end.

Other managers in nearby counties can hold on to their discontented who then snap immediately they leave the group but are willing to conform and play while there. McGeeney is what he is and you accept that or yammer on like Tim.

I would agree with a lot of that Owen but the difference is this the 2 Brianís were able to get the best players in the county playing consistently with the team and they actually went and won stuff and competed. Under Geezer Armagh have not pushed on in my opinion. There are many reasons for that, and a lot of them are not his direct fault, but I think when you look at where the county is at and where it could be then it is worrying in my opinion what the next step is. In 4 years there hasnít been an actual championship win. 2 decent runs in the Qualifiers. Out of Division 3 but only at the second time of asking. And year on year the same debate. Yes he is a Bovril type character. I believe he could have an important role to play in the county set up but he is very much the Roy Keane type character. Fort right in his opinions but missing other key elements to make the breakthrough that could be made.

There is a need for root and branch change. I have been saying for years that the tree is being grown for the top
If the leaves downwards when it should be the other way. There should be a review of where the money is being spent on the senior teams and see where some of it can be reallocated to schools and very young underage.  I had a very interesting conversation with a man who is very on the button with these things. Croke Park have to match find any money available for coaching or development projects. How about the clubs, in conjunction with the county, look at appointing coaching officers with Geezer as the Ďbossí. 2 North, 2 mid, 2 south. The clubs who provide the finance get access to a coach. Give them a 2 year brief with targets for development. Have a better structure for local blitzís at u12 instead of the ramshackle league that is run with teams having to go outside of the county for blitzes. Have a more competitive schools competition. I was speaking to Diarmuid Marsden recently about a primary school county final we played against each other all those years ago. Those final teams provided something like 10 players who played inter county minor and 4 that played senior!!  Build from the bottom up not top down.

Iím soccer the likes of Belgium did that 15-20 years ago and are consistently producing excellent footballers now. A focused, unified, simple system with proper people in it and proper coaching happening regularly from the kids are 8-9

Bit in bold is not true. This myth has been propagated by people who misinterpret the agreement Dublin have established for themselves with respect to full time club coaches. That is not in place across the board.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on July 21, 2018, 12:55:01 PM
There has always been a need for a John the Baptist like management in Armagh, e.g. the two Brianís. Someone to carry on the job of keeping the pot simmering while waiting for the next Messiah to come along and restore the glory days. McGeeney played that part in Kildare and again with Armagh. Unlike some other managers he is a Bovril like character for players, they love him or hate (maybe a bit strong - like Bovril) him.  In both tenures as manager, the players appear to be hanging on his every word and willing to follow him to the end.

Other managers in nearby counties can hold on to their discontented who then snap immediately they leave the group but are willing to conform and play while there. McGeeney is what he is and you accept that or yammer on like Tim.

I would agree with a lot of that Owen but the difference is this the 2 Brianís were able to get the best players in the county playing consistently with the team and they actually went and won stuff and competed. Under Geezer Armagh have not pushed on in my opinion. There are many reasons for that, and a lot of them are not his direct fault, but I think when you look at where the county is at and where it could be then it is worrying in my opinion what the next step is. In 4 years there hasnít been an actual championship win. 2 decent runs in the Qualifiers. Out of Division 3 but only at the second time of asking. And year on year the same debate. Yes he is a Bovril type character. I believe he could have an important role to play in the county set up but he is very much the Roy Keane type character. Fort right in his opinions but missing other key elements to make the breakthrough that could be made.

There is a need for root and branch change. I have been saying for years that the tree is being grown for the top
If the leaves downwards when it should be the other way. There should be a review of where the money is being spent on the senior teams and see where some of it can be reallocated to schools and very young underage.  I had a very interesting conversation with a man who is very on the button with these things. Croke Park have to match find any money available for coaching or development projects. How about the clubs, in conjunction with the county, look at appointing coaching officers with Geezer as the Ďbossí. 2 North, 2 mid, 2 south. The clubs who provide the finance get access to a coach. Give them a 2 year brief with targets for development. Have a better structure for local blitzís at u12 instead of the ramshackle league that is run with teams having to go outside of the county for blitzes. Have a more competitive schools competition. I was speaking to Diarmuid Marsden recently about a primary school county final we played against each other all those years ago. Those final teams provided something like 10 players who played inter county minor and 4 that played senior!!  Build from the bottom up not top down.

Iím soccer the likes of Belgium did that 15-20 years ago and are consistently producing excellent footballers now. A focused, unified, simple system with proper people in it and proper coaching happening regularly from the kids are 8-9

Bit in bold is not true. This myth has been propagated by people who misinterpret the agreement Dublin have established for themselves with respect to full time club coaches. That is not in place across the board.

Iíll take your word for it. This person would be involved in coaching and would have a fair idea of whatís happening. Maybe he has it wrong then. I still think the main premise of what I say is true. As a county we have 40 odd counties. It may be a worthwhile exercise to have a set up where each club provide £3k per annum to employ 4 -5 full time coaches that go round the local primary schools and the clubs. I could see a club do that quicker then focusing on selling tickets to fund the senior team.
Title: Re: Roscommon v Armagh
Post by: smelmoth on July 21, 2018, 01:55:51 PM
Tim - welcome back. You are like a stalking horse in a Tory Leadership campaign. You wonít win but your initial move might trigger something. Rufus might not always answer the direct question but read your own posts and you will see your own record.

Rufus - club delegates are more of s politburo than a democracy in many cases. Though I suspect your argument is really about calling out key board warriors.

Tim - you canít isolate the McGeeney factor from style of play, cost, competitiveness etc when analysing attendances no matter how many people you claim to have spoken to. Rufus is absolutely correct to say you are all over the place.

I understand that Tim is correct in saying that Tony is wrapped up with Mayo and that this was decided a year ago. What his plans are I donít know but ďheavily linkedĒ means nothing unless CornUladh02 is looking a job on Sky Sports News.

Rufus is correct in that the closing minutes if the Clare game demonstrated mental strength and togetherness. If we are attributing that to management (and I donít know who to attribute it to) then we must also look at the first 65 mins and attribute the causes of that to something

BCB is correct. The changes must come from the bottom up. That means the money must go to bottom up