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GAA Discussion => GAA Discussion => Topic started by: Asal Mor on June 03, 2018, 12:14:33 PM

Title: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Asal Mor on June 03, 2018, 12:14:33 PM
 Can't post a link as I haven't found it online but anyone read this today? Unlike the Athenry article where he named and shamed volunteers over minor/disputed incidents, I'd say fair play to him on this one. It seems to have uncovered improper use of GAA funds by top officials, breach of confidentiality on a purportedly anonymous helpline and a very malicious allegation against a coach by the club chairman, whose apology came across as very begrudging.

I imagine we'll see a series of these kind of articles from Kimmage as he becomes a watchdog for disgruntled GAA club members everywhere.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: trileacman on June 03, 2018, 12:27:41 PM
I thought it was another nothing article from Kimmage about a dispute at club level between two men. Is every coach who was ever ran out of a club to get a full page spread on their grievances in the sindo? “I said, he said” that’s all I see in that article.

It would be very easy to take the taxi drivers word at face value but like any situation I’m sure there’s two sides to this story. The problem with Kimmage’s writing is that conjecture is often presented as fact.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Asal Mor on June 03, 2018, 01:32:57 PM
He offered the other side a chance to contradict any of the accusations levelled at them. They didn't.
Improper use of GAA funds by the association's leading figures, if proven, is not a "nothing" matter.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: dublin7 on June 03, 2018, 03:54:40 PM
I thought it was another nothing article from Kimmage about a dispute at club level between two men. Is every coach who was ever ran out of a club to get a full page spread on their grievances in the sindo? “I said, he said” that’s all I see in that article.

It would be very easy to take the taxi drivers word at face value but like any situation I’m sure there’s two sides to this story. The problem with Kimmage’s writing is that conjecture is often presented as fact.

€20k cheques being issued from strange business names. Questionable behaviour at best by a club chairman. I think he is dead right on this one
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Hound on June 03, 2018, 04:42:12 PM
I thought it was another nothing article from Kimmage about a dispute at club level between two men. Is every coach who was ever ran out of a club to get a full page spread on their grievances in the sindo? “I said, he said” that’s all I see in that article.

It would be very easy to take the taxi drivers word at face value but like any situation I’m sure there’s two sides to this story. The problem with Kimmage’s writing is that conjecture is often presented as fact.

€20k cheques being issued from strange business names. Questionable behaviour at best by a club chairman. I think he is dead right on this one
Doesn't seem to be online yet. Is it O'Dwyers, Balbriggan?
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Asal Mor on June 03, 2018, 05:46:12 PM
I thought it was another nothing article from Kimmage about a dispute at club level between two men. Is every coach who was ever ran out of a club to get a full page spread on their grievances in the sindo? “I said, he said” that’s all I see in that article.

It would be very easy to take the taxi drivers word at face value but like any situation I’m sure there’s two sides to this story. The problem with Kimmage’s writing is that conjecture is often presented as fact.

€20k cheques being issued from strange business names. Questionable behaviour at best by a club chairman. I think he is dead right on this one
Doesn't seem to be online yet. Is it O'Dwyers, Balbriggan?
Yes.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: bennydorano on June 03, 2018, 07:51:22 PM
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/paul-kimmage-the-curious-case-of-a-dublin-club-a-twenty-grand-cheque-and-some-unanswered-questions-for-the-gaa-36972296.html?dfhfgfggfhfghfgf
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: bennydorano on June 03, 2018, 07:53:55 PM
Could be PK's new cause celebre. He's turned Turk a bit after calling out the Dubs for cheating and be rounded on by all & sundry.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: IolarCoisCuain on June 03, 2018, 09:28:41 PM
Could be PK's new cause celebre. He's turned Turk a bit after calling out the Dubs for cheating and be rounded on by all & sundry.

Turned Turk?
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: gallsman on June 03, 2018, 09:37:29 PM
I thought it was another nothing article from Kimmage about a dispute at club level between two men. Is every coach who was ever ran out of a club to get a full page spread on their grievances in the sindo? “I said, he said” that’s all I see in that article.

It would be very easy to take the taxi drivers word at face value but like any situation I’m sure there’s two sides to this story. The problem with Kimmage’s writing is that conjecture is often presented as fact.

Really?!

Reads like corruption of the highest order to me.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Jinxy on June 03, 2018, 09:48:17 PM
This article is a different kettle of fish than the Athenry one a few weeks ago, which for me had a lot of 'He said, she said' stuff in it.
I think Tom Ryan needs to clarify what happened here.
Notwithstanding the issue of dumping the coach for no good reason, the accusation the chairman made to justify the decision was disgraceful.
He needs to be held to account, and the GAA need to be held to account re who actually paid the settlement.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: bennydorano on June 03, 2018, 10:06:17 PM
The money is the huge issue, not to belittle The Driver's situation but club fallouts could fill Local and National papers on a weekly basis year round.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Syferus on June 03, 2018, 10:10:08 PM
1. Kimmage writes article.

2. GAABoard usual suspects upset at Kimmage rather than the issue at hand.

3. Every else stares on blankly as the usual car crash thread happens.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Farrandeelin on June 03, 2018, 10:17:48 PM
4. Syf has to comment.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Asal Mor on June 03, 2018, 10:18:29 PM
1. Kimmage writes article.

2. GAABoard usual suspects upset at Kimmage rather than the issue at hand.

3. Every else stares on blankly as the usual car crash thread happens.
You're making as much sense as usual. One poster criticised Kimmage. 5 or 6 posters praised him for bringing this to light.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Orchard park on June 03, 2018, 10:21:49 PM
The biggest issue tyerevis the Crokes park company cheque underwriting a personal court case.

Dwyers chairman sounds a prize catch doesn't he
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Jinxy on June 03, 2018, 10:31:53 PM
You can't have people in positions of authority whose mouths work faster than their brains.
No matter how well-intentioned and hard-working they may be.
I'd say Kimmage's inbox is fit to explode with all the emails he's getting from disgruntled parents, coaches etc. from all over the country.
A significant chunk of those will be people with chips on their shoulder that young Johnny isn't getting picked, but given the number of clubs and volunteers we have, I'd say he will get plenty of mileage out of this yet.
We all know the nonsense that goes on, much of it being low level local politics, but I think we're about to find out how robust our 'complaints procedures' are.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Hound on June 03, 2018, 10:32:17 PM
The biggest issue tyerevis the Crokes park company cheque underwriting a personal court case.

Dwyers chairman sounds a prize catch doesn't he

I don't have a problem with the GAA footing the bill. The chairman was acting in his role as administrator of the club. It's only right that actions you take in that role are covered by GAA insurance, otherwise nobody would do those roles.

The cheque was written by Garwyn Ireland, who are loss adjusters. So this may not have cost the GAA a penny

However, after been found to have done wrong and payout made, the chairman should clearly be made stand down.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Orchard park on June 03, 2018, 10:34:10 PM
Croke park come clean on it then....

Chairmen that don't act the bollix  don't get sued successfully
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: gallsman on June 03, 2018, 10:34:19 PM
The biggest issue tyerevis the Crokes park company cheque underwriting a personal court case.

Dwyers chairman sounds a prize catch doesn't he

I don't have a problem with the GAA footing the bill. The chairman was acting in his role as administrator of the club. It's only right that actions you take in that role are covered by GAA insurance, otherwise nobody would do those roles.

The cheque was written by Garwyn Ireland, who are loss adjusters. So this may not have cost the GAA a penny

However, after been found to have done wrong and payout made, the chairman should clearly be made stand down.

The case was around defamation, which was done in a personal capacity. It's specifically clarified in the article that he sued Howley, not the club.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Orchard park on June 03, 2018, 10:37:08 PM
The biggest issue tyerevis the Crokes park company cheque underwriting a personal court case.

Dwyers chairman sounds a prize catch doesn't he

I don't have a problem with the GAA footing the bill. The chairman was acting in his role as administrator of the club. It's only right that actions you take in that role are covered by GAA insurance, otherwise nobody would do those roles.

The cheque was written by Garwyn Ireland, who are loss adjusters. So this may not have cost the GAA a penny

However, after been found to have done wrong and payout made, the chairman should clearly be made stand down.

The case was around defamation, which was done in a personal capacity. It's specifically clarified in the article that he sued Howley, not the club.

Exactly

So how does CP bail him out
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Hound on June 03, 2018, 10:39:09 PM
The biggest issue tyerevis the Crokes park company cheque underwriting a personal court case.

Dwyers chairman sounds a prize catch doesn't he

I don't have a problem with the GAA footing the bill. The chairman was acting in his role as administrator of the club. It's only right that actions you take in that role are covered by GAA insurance, otherwise nobody would do those roles.

The cheque was written by Garwyn Ireland, who are loss adjusters. So this may not have cost the GAA a penny

However, after been found to have done wrong and payout made, the chairman should clearly be made stand down.

The case was around defamation, which was done in a personal capacity. It's specifically clarified in the article that he sued Howley, not the club.
But it was said in his role as chairman. The reason he said it was to help his argument for getting rid of "the Driver" as coach of a team.
Doesn't seem to matter he was sued personally. I don't know how exactly the insurance works, but given the Loss Adjusters wrote the cheque, it seems they were happy it was a GAA role he was sued under.
Not defending the chairman, and I would be happy if he himself had to pay it as it was a horrid thing to say, but GAA can't pick and choose when their insurance covers the actions of their administrators.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Jinxy on June 03, 2018, 10:41:51 PM
Why would GAA insurance even cover something like defamation?
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: gallsman on June 03, 2018, 10:42:13 PM
The biggest issue tyerevis the Crokes park company cheque underwriting a personal court case.

Dwyers chairman sounds a prize catch doesn't he

I don't have a problem with the GAA footing the bill. The chairman was acting in his role as administrator of the club. It's only right that actions you take in that role are covered by GAA insurance, otherwise nobody would do those roles.

The cheque was written by Garwyn Ireland, who are loss adjusters. So this may not have cost the GAA a penny

However, after been found to have done wrong and payout made, the chairman should clearly be made stand down.

The case was around defamation, which was done in a personal capacity. It's specifically clarified in the article that he sued Howley, not the club.
But it was said in his role as chairman. The reason he said it was to help his argument for getting rid of "the Driver" as coach of a team.
Doesn't seem to matter he was sued personally. I don't know how exactly the insurance works, but given the Loss Adjusters wrote the cheque, it seems they were happy it was a GAA role he was sued under.
Not defending the chairman, and I would be happy if he himself had to pay it as it was a horrid thing to say, but GAA can't pick and choose when their insurance covers the actions of their administrators.

He stood up and lied as to why the coach was dismissed. Unless this was agreed by the committee in advance, he did it personally, rather than as a representative of the club.

Regardless, the legal case was the coach Vs Howley, not O'Dwyer's or the wider GAA.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Hound on June 03, 2018, 10:46:44 PM
Why would GAA insurance even cover something like defamation?
Sure talking is most of what a chairman does!

This was a horrible and wrong thing to say, but it was clearly in his role of chairman of the club. And all chairman, secretaries, etc. should be properly covered by insurance in my opinion. But 100% he should be removed from the office.

I've given my opinion, which clearly some disagree with, but I'm bowing out now rather than continuing to repeat myself!
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Asal Mor on June 03, 2018, 11:04:25 PM
I think it's a good argument Hound. Maybe the cheque isn't as suspicious as it appeared and it could well be genuine that Ryan felt he couldn't comment publicly on the case. I don't think the article even mentioned what Garwyn Ireland are. As you said, it might not have cost the GAA a penny(though insurance companies always make you pay in the end).
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: heffo on June 04, 2018, 01:45:25 AM
Why would GAA insurance even cover something like defamation?

I’d imagine it’s a catch all cover for GAA officers that they will be underwritten for issues arising discharging their role (however hairbrained they may be)
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: trileacman on June 04, 2018, 04:26:01 AM
I thought it was another nothing article from Kimmage about a dispute at club level between two men. Is every coach who was ever ran out of a club to get a full page spread on their grievances in the sindo? “I said, he said” that’s all I see in that article.

It would be very easy to take the taxi drivers word at face value but like any situation I’m sure there’s two sides to this story. The problem with Kimmage’s writing is that conjecture is often presented as fact.

Really?!

Reads like corruption of the highest order to me.

I could spend all night dissecting the piece but I'll give you my top grievances with it.

1. Why is not presented in traditional interview style instead of this quasi-fiction like prose? Why is the parent not simply interviewed and given the chance to present his version of events whilst his account is queried by the journalist? Is that not how these things are done? There's this account of the meeting in 2016.

Quote
A month later, on January 13, 2016, the parents of the (now) under 14 hurlers were invited to meet the club to discuss the new season. It was opened by the chairman, Liam Howley, and a new coaching team was unveiled but the parents were more interested in what had happened to the old coaching team.

Parent: "Before we go forward with any of this, the committee should at least explain why the (last coach was) dismissed?"

Chairman: "(The Driver) was dismissed by the committee."

Parent: "Why?"

Chairman: "Some of the committee members found him difficult to deal with."

Parent: "For what reason, given the success of the hurlers, was he dismissed?"

Chairman: "Two years ago he inappropriately laid his hands on a child."

Parent: "That statement is wholly inappropriate. It is disgraceful. You should be ashamed of yourself. You knocked on his door and asked him to come back to O'Dwyer's, so you clearly have no belief in the accusation you are now making."

Chairman: "How do you know that I knocked on his door?"

Parent: "He told me . . . Did you consult any of the parents about this?"

Chairman: "We have a committee to organise these matters. They don't consult with parents."

Parent: "What procedure did the committee use to dismiss the coaching staff for the hurlers?"

Chairman: "The committee voted on it."

Parent: "I'm asking you a simple question. What procedure did the committee use before making the decision to sack the most successful coaching team that club have had in years? For example, did you consult with the parents?"

Chairman: "We have a committee. We don't consult with parents."

Parent: "I am asking you as chairman of O'Dwyer's for the fourth time, what procedures did the committee use before dismissing this coaching team?"

Chairman: "They voted on it."

Parent: "Okay, you answered the question. There was no procedure."

Chairman: "Okay."

I mean is this a word for word account from the meeting? Was the precise nature of remarks recorded in the minutes and provided to Kimmage or is this simply an involved party's recollection of a meeting held 2 years ago? If it is why isn't it attributed to the person/persons who recounted it?



2. There's this.

Quote
His wife had urged him to stay calm but Howley's comments had pushed him to the edge. He stood-up and fixed the chairman with a gaze: "I'm going to make sure you regret every word you've said."

Obliviously "the driver" has made this a personal vendetta against Howley and it's clear through out the piece; by trying to sue him directly, by being pissy about the apology not being worded as he wanted, by running to Kimmage to air this disagreement as publicly as possible against Howley (but obviously clinging to his own anonymity). To me it reeks of resentment, bitterness and a desire for revenge and that leads me to doubt was he as innocent a party in this as he claims and would this barely concealed bitterness not lead him to distort the facts to paint Howley in as poor a light as possible.

3. There's this bizzare, almost irrelevant, account in the middle.

Quote
Meet the Parent. For 15 months he has been compiling a dossier on some trends at O'Dwyer's:

What right-minded individual "compiles a dossier" on the rows within a underage team, especially some mysterious exchange between a mother and coach? And why the pseudonym "the parent", is he a former G-man or something? If he's recounting the truth why hide it behind a pseudonym, it's O'Dwyers GAA club we're dealing with here, not the Scilian mafia.

Quote
Case A

A mother is watching from her car at an underage practice match as her son goes to ground and starts crying. She jumps from the car and comes running onto the field to check that he's okay.

"Did you see that?" she says, addressing the coach. "He was punched in the stomach!"

"No, that didn't happen" the coach replies.

"I saw it!" she says.

"It didn't happen," he insists.

But the strike is confirmed when she's walking back to her car. "I saw it," a woman on the sideline observes. "He was definitely punched."

Another night. She watches her son playing really well but he's upset when he returns to the car: "I scored more goals than anyone else and the coaches said well done to everyone but not to me."

"Don't worry," she says. "I'm sure they didn't mean it."

But she's not sure.

So who's the coach here? Who's the parent? Is this the taxi driver who's the coach here having the row, I'm confused by this bit. Anyway Kimmage goes on to say that this woman emailed the chairman of Dublin County Board to complain that the coach said well done to the other kids and not her kid and this is evidence of mistreatment of her child. Now if she sent it to me you'd be sure I'd not be dignifying it with a response, in fact I'd find it very hard to to email her back telling her not to be so precious about her son.

Quote
Case B

The mother of a young footballer and his coach are arguing on the sideline. It's no big deal. There's nothing to see here. It's how the coach likes to do business. "If there are issues let me know and we won't have a problem," he had said. There are some issues. She lets him know. He doesn't take it very well. And now there's a problem.

Apart from the opening line that paragraph is as clear as mud. It's incredibly ambiguous, so much so that all it achieves is that the reader's mind is free to interpret it with as much prejudice as they can muster. What are the issues? What does she let him know? How does he not take it well? What's the problem? There's more known about the dark side of the moon than there is about this altercation on the sideline of a pitch.

Quote
It is perhaps just a coincidence that her son is no longer deemed worthy of the 'Player of the Week' award. It is perhaps just a coincidence that while other kids are being greeted like the Messiah her boy is being ignored.

To me this is just another jilted mother, pissy that her son isn't getting enough "player of the week" awards. How can a man who exposed Armstrong as a serial drugs cheat commit this trivial affair to print as some sort of example of a festering "scandal" in the GAA?
 
Quote
The mother writes a letter to the O'Dwyer's games promotions officer and arranges to meet the club's child welfare officer to discuss how her son has been treated. The meeting is cancelled by text an hour before they are scheduled to sit down. She then receives a letter from the club secretary:

"The Executive Committee followed the GAA Code of Behaviour guidelines and passed your letter to the Children's Officers of the Club for consideration. It is their decision that this is not a child welfare issue. The Executive Committee supports their decision."

The mother makes several attempts to contact Aileen Connolly, the Dublin County Board children's officer but there is no response. Her son leaves the club and joins Fingallians.

A child not receiving enough "player of the week" awards is not a child welfare issue. Children's officers and DCB children's officers are busy trying to prevent sexual assaults or physical or verbal abuse of kids. FFS they haven't time to be dealing with your moany complaints.


Quote
Case C

Three months after they became the first team to win a hurling league for the club, 15 boys have withdrawn from the O'Dwyer's under 14s. Seven have written letters to the County Board:

"Hi, my name is *****. I am 12 years old. My coaches voted me the most improved player of the year. Last year we went unbeaten and won our league. This year my two coaches got sacked by the club and I have no team to play with.

"I love hurling and I don't know what to do. I'm annoyed at the club because I played under (the Driver and his assistant) for eight years. My Dad says I'm not allowed to transfer to a new club. The people who sacked my coaches are a bunch of shams and have never seen us play. Can you please talk to them and tell them to make the club better?"

Maybe it's me but can many of you imagine, in this day and age, 12 year old boys sitting down to write letters of grievances to the DCB? I mean if it's of their own volition why wouldn't they email them, or contact them on FB or something that kids use nowadays. I can't imagine them coming up with the idea of doing it so I'd be suspicious a parent suggested that they should do it and give them a hand at it. And that looks quite like exploitation to me.

Quote
The Parent was starting to despair until he turned on the radio one morning, Today with Sean O'Rourke, and heard a guy from the GAA making a lot of sense: "We must remember - particularly when we are talking about young people - that we are developing them not just as players but as people that will go out in society," Gearóid ó Maoilmhichíl told O'Rourke. "And if they learn something good that's developmental . . . they will transfer that in later life as well."

Gearóid ó Maoilmhichíl is the national children's officer at the GAA. The Parent sent him a letter by email:

Gearoid a Chara,

I determined to attempt to get in touch with you after hearing your interview on RTE . . . I thought you sounded very sincere on the issue . . . I believe that two of my children and my wife have been extremely badly treated by members of the O'Dwyer's GAA Club . . . I believe that I can clearly demonstrate that such behaviour by O'Dwyer's has become endemic within that club and that this behaviour has seriously negatively impacted on numerous children, parents, coaches and members not to mention Gaelic Games in the area.

I further believe that this appalling culture has been allowed to fester within O'Dwyer's club due to the apparent total indifference of the Dublin GAA County Board. I've attached numerous complaints from people to the County Board. You will note that in the vast majority of cases the parents complaints have, to date, been totally ignored to the extent that in most cases the parents never even received an acknowledgement that their complaint had been received.

Yet on 14th February 2016, the O'Dwyer's secretary sent an email to parents claiming that O'Dwyer's had the complete support of the County Board in this matter. My concerns therefore are twofold: (1) Numerous issues with O'Dwyer's . . . (2) The almost total apparent indifference to these issues, when parents have made complaints to the County Board.

Quote
Our children just want to play Gaelic Games. I request that the Office of the National Juvenile Officer step-in and assist us, or at least listen to us and give us some advice. I fully realise there are numerous complex issues involved in all of this. For the sake of our children, I would very much like to meet with you as soon as possible to see if some arrangement can be made to allow our children to continue with their love of playing Gaelic Games.



It's been clear enough at the start that this lad has personal involvement in this debacle and it doesn't seem that, despite his insistence, it's his wife and kids at the forefront of the disagreement (at least I think it's clear, it's hard to f**king know who's involved in what story in this maze of pseudonyms.) So it's pretty cynical to say it's his wife and kids who've been treated shabbily when it's mainly himself throwing himself in the middle of AGM disagreements. There's also all this "our children" horseshit that's just gombeen spake straight from the Healy-Rae or Michael Martin vernacular.


4. There's this inference that there's something shady about future DG Tom Ryan getting back to this fella about his problem which is strange given that if you contacted the GAA with a problem would ya not be delighted such a senior figure was involving himself in your complaint.

There's also an inference that the cheque was some dodgy scam coming from a 3rd party, Hound has clarified that issue possibly.

There's an inference that Ryan refusing to speak on the matter is further evidence of a high level conspiracy in the GAA echelons against the O'Dwyers GAA, 2015, U-13 hurling management team (or OGTFUTHMT for short). Perhaps this can be explained by the fact that the taxi man contacted Tom Ryan through a confidential helpline and as such is bound by the terms of the confidential helpline not to discuss the terms of the case with the first national newspaper who phones his office. I can easily imagine the GAA's legal team, having just recently shelled out 20k in defamation compo, telling the involved parties to keep their gobs shut for the foreseeable future for fear the court-happy complainant would seek further damages if they tried to spin their side of proceedings.



Maybe it's just me but I find it a storm in a teacup. I could write a tome exceeding the volume of "War And Peace" entitled "the manager, player and family fallouts of Trillick GAA" if I wanted so I don't see this event as terribly newsworthy, especially for a national newspaper with such a predominant circulation. Moreover I see it as an incredibly cynical manoevere by all involved, the complainants, the GAA top brass politicians, Kimmage, by using kids to further their own ends. The complaints tell ya they're "doing it for the children" rather than defending their own bruised egos. The GAA brass are throwing about the cliche of "developing them not just as players but as people that will go out in society" as they scale the corporation ladder. Kimmage is using the affair to create scandal, controversy and of course an increase in circulation and his own personal relevance.

The truth is none of them give a rats ass about kids.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: thewobbler on June 04, 2018, 07:51:32 AM
What I don’t like about this article, much as I didn’t like about his previous one, is that he would like to convince the reader that this is a GAA issue, when my belief is that this is the sort of personality clash which haunts every voluntary organisation from time-to-time.

He has run this story over the dozens, maybe hundreds, of similar petty disputes that he has compiled, because he managed to find a link to top brass. Which only exists because the GAA has a grievance procedure that actually lead all the way there.

The one thing though that strikes/worries me here is that the lack of opportunity for children to transfer from a club they’re disaffected with, is probably the biggest factor in a clash of heads going from a sneaky headbutt to a year long vendetta.

If as an association we want to prevent these circumstances arising, then we need a more expedient way to close it out i.e. should a patent be willing to pay a set fee, which would be set as a deterrent for trivial issues, but not a roadblock for major ones, their case for transfer can be held and judged by an independent central officer, who has the power of immediate decision. Maybe €500 or so.

Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Asal Mor on June 04, 2018, 09:02:22 AM
Trileacman - excellent post and I'd agree with most of it. Certainly, some of the complaints about how the team was run do sound like the typical "my son is the centre of the universe, why can't you see that?" stuff, that happen in all clubs in all sports.

The accusation was very maliciously worded though and I don't think the "driver" was being pissy about the wording of the apology. He'd specifically said that he didn't want the club to foot the bill for Howley's carry on, but Howley made it sound like it had.

I think you're right about Ryan refusing to comment because this had arisen through the confidential helpline and as wobbler said,  the link to top brass exists only exists because the complaints procedure leads to them, which is a good thing.

I feel a bit taken in by the way the article was written and having read some of the posts here, think that aside from Howley, the other GAA officials involved, did nothing wrong here.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Orchard park on June 04, 2018, 10:05:21 AM
Good post trilleacman
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: DuffleKing on June 04, 2018, 10:34:25 AM

Is the problem with Tom Ryan here not that his appearance came in response to a confidential call to a line specifically set up to deal with reported grievances. Senior or not, the director of finance is not the appropriate person for this to be escalated to.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Jinxy on June 04, 2018, 10:52:03 AM
This is Kimmage's writing style so it's a mixture of tangible, factual information and anecdotal accounts which support the narrative, but are significantly less tangible.
I think his style works well for one-to-one interviews, but for stuff like this I feel he writes three thousand words where one thousand words would be more than sufficient to tell the story.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: johnnycool on June 04, 2018, 11:00:54 AM
On the local level I can see how a committee can get a bit pissed off with a Coach who just does their own thing, training when they shouldn't be and so forth. You can try and reel them in and if that doesn't work then you can get shot. That bit I can understand, but the Chairman was totally bang out of order for the comments he used in an open forum about an untrue event "Two years ago he inappropriately laid his hands on a child."

Now I'd be pretty pissed off if that statement was made about me and I can see why "the driver" pursued that incident all the way through the courts.

Hound has probably clarified the issue around the source of the money and that on second viewing looks like a fair enough transaction and TBH I was totally unaware of Insurance being used to cover defamation cliams against club officers.

So first part, the O'Dwyers chairman was a complete bollox and should really be removed from his position, how that is done is another story and secondly Nationally and County level it seems as if the GAA has made enquiries albeit the parents should have had a voice, but I assume the enquiries where based on specific incidents. Not sure how much more could have been done.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: trailer on June 04, 2018, 11:02:51 AM
As an underage coach I have to admit this puts me right off. Who wants to end up in a national newspaper over the head of some grievance from a parent / another volunteer. f**k that.
Kimmage is making more out of this than there is, but's it now clear you have to be ultra, ultra cautious as a coach.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Dinny Breen on June 04, 2018, 11:31:47 AM
I see it in rugby I see it soccer I see it the GAA I see it in all sports. Under age coaches and the under age parents are too busy trying to live their lives vicariously through children. Sport for kids until they are 16 should only be about fun. Period. If you think differently ask yourself why?
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: straightred on June 04, 2018, 11:38:34 AM
What I don’t like about this article, much as I didn’t like about his previous one, is that he would like to convince the reader that this is a GAA issue, when my belief is that this is the sort of personality clash which haunts every voluntary organisation from time-to-time.

He has run this story over the dozens, maybe hundreds, of similar petty disputes that he has compiled, because he managed to find a link to top brass. Which only exists because the GAA has a grievance procedure that actually lead all the way there.

The one thing though that strikes/worries me here is that the lack of opportunity for children to transfer from a club they’re disaffected with, is probably the biggest factor in a clash of heads going from a sneaky headbutt to a year long vendetta.

If as an association we want to prevent these circumstances arising, then we need a more expedient way to close it out i.e. should a patent be willing to pay a set fee, which would be set as a deterrent for trivial issues, but not a roadblock for major ones, their case for transfer can be held and judged by an independent central officer, who has the power of immediate decision. Maybe €500 or so.

but how do you stop it becoming the norm ?

Here in Dublin my kids play lots of sports. Annual player transfer is soccer is rampant with kids moving around as they please. You end up with no continuity from year to year and worse, no loyalty.

With the GAA you have year on year rivalries. They start at u12 and they all grow up together. I know my boys look forward to games against particular clubs because the might have lost a close one last year and they are raring to get another go against them. With soccer you could be facing a new team the next year.

If it could be regulated and restricted to genuine and legitimate reasons then i'd be in favour but it can't be because little Johnny is having a hissy fit
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: johnnycool on June 04, 2018, 11:53:12 AM
I see it in rugby I see it soccer I see it the GAA I see it in all sports. Under age coaches and the under age parents are too busy trying to live their lives vicariously through children. Sport for kids until they are 16 should only be about fun. Period. If you think differently ask yourself why?

There's a bit of that alright but I've had his debate with a few parents about why their wee Jonny isn't getting as much game time as wee Jimmy when as much as they might be the same age wee Jimmy is the far superior player.

Now this isn't about winning it's about rewarding the wee Jimmys who put in the extra effort to get themselves to that level. That has to be recognised to encourage more wee Jimmys.
If wee Jonny is lacking then work with him more from a coaching perspective and speak with the parents in what is needed to get their wee Jonny up the levels, but by and large wee Jonny's parents don't put in the hard yards like wee Jimmys', don't go to away games, will miss training regularly and so forth, hence why wee Jonny may struggle.

I think the GAA is about right with the go games concept to U12 but that does seem to be slipping in certain units.

After that the more I think of it the "everyone gets a medal" matra is detrimental to youngsters as they're becoming entitled little shits and that is encouraged by modern parenting where rather than support wee Jonny in getting him to improve we lay the blame at someone else's door.
IMO 13 and 14 year olds are old enough to understand that hard work and doing that bit extra should be rewarded. If it isn't then why do it.
This is the same for exams and life in general, not just sport.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Captain Scarlet on June 05, 2018, 01:51:40 PM
Late to this. I understand club officials should be protected and there should be insurance when they are doing their duties.
However, in this case the Chair used and abused his position to defame someone who he obviously had a personal issue with.
The defamation case was clearly enough to warrant the payment and in turn would show the Chair should have been removed from position and the GAA should not intervene in cases of defamation.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: magpie seanie on June 06, 2018, 06:04:47 PM
I see it in rugby I see it soccer I see it the GAA I see it in all sports. Under age coaches and the under age parents are too busy trying to live their lives vicariously through children. Sport for kids until they are 16 should only be about fun. Period. If you think differently ask yourself why?


It's a good question. Totally understand what you're saying but I think 16 is too late. In life you win and lose. Those kids will be taking exams and tests every week of the year academically or in speech and drama, music, karate, dancing etc etc. Kids need to get used to the fact that there isn't a medal for everyone in life. I think Go-Games up to U10 is right and proper but after that there needs to be some reality. I'd advise coached to err on the side of picking older players rather than more talented younger players (who have their own team as well) because we need to try and keep as many involved and enjoying things as possible (never mind the late developers point).

The problem is as you rightly highlight parents are too busy trying to live their lives vicariously through children.....usually completely clueless about what is going on in front of them. It's even worse if one of these people actually ends up coaching a team which invariably happens as I'd say in 85% of clubs you're just happy to get someone to take the team.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: thewobbler on June 06, 2018, 06:34:59 PM
I see it in rugby I see it soccer I see it the GAA I see it in all sports. Under age coaches and the under age parents are too busy trying to live their lives vicariously through children. Sport for kids until they are 16 should only be about fun. Period. If you think differently ask yourself why?

Because winning is fun. And it builds memories.

Losing teaches you how to win.

Me and my mates played football in the playground every day of my young life. That was fun too. But I don’t remember any single match. It all blurs into one.

But I can remember dozens of matches from primary school, under 10, 12 and 14 level. Where I played, how I played, who won, and roughly the final score.


Would I swap that for a bundle more of blurry memories? Not a chance. Not a chance.

My 7 year old kicks points every evening with his cousin. They always keep score. Will they remember that when they’re 41? No chance. But every evening they’ve a start point to drive each other to get better. That’s why they’re both improving rapidly in the basics of the game.

Competition is a good thing.

Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: From the Bunker on June 06, 2018, 09:16:29 PM
The problem with the winning mentality is where do you start. And like the facts of life you have to trickle it into the childs psyche. Like School you can't sit on your hands and expect your child to thrive on their own. Encouragement, guidance and help is often needed. I know a Parent who just can't get over how much my lad has improved at Soccer, Gaelic and Hurling the last couple of years. The reason is - I'd spend a fun hour every now and again in the back garden. He has a good hand pass from me going through it with him. He has a good Soccer throw from me going through it with him. It only takes 10 minutes in the middle of a fun game! This is not living my dream through my child. It is making him/her competent in the skills of sport. Just like one would spend time at Homework to improve a child at reading or at worst keep up with the main pack. I realise his/her limitations and most of them are the same as mine (apple does not fall far from the tree). Anyway. you have to push your child, be it at Music, sport, school or just life. But you have to have real aspirations for what is the best they can achieve.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: magpie seanie on June 06, 2018, 10:02:50 PM
The problem with the winning mentality is where do you start. And like the facts of life you have to trickle it into the childs psyche. Like School you can't sit on your hands and expect your child to thrive on their own. Encouragement, guidance and help is often needed. I know a Parent who just can't get over how much my lad has improved at Soccer, Gaelic and Hurling the last couple of years. The reason is - I'd spend a fun hour every now and again in the back garden. He has a good hand pass from me going through it with him. He has a good Soccer throw from me going through it with him. It only takes 10 minutes in the middle of a fun game! This is not living my dream through my child. It is making him/her competent in the skills of sport. Just like one would spend time at Homework to improve a child at reading or at worst keep up with the main pack. I realise his/her limitations and most of them are the same as mine (apple does not fall far from the tree). Anyway. you have to push your child, be it at Music, sport, school or just life. But you have to have real aspirations for what is the best they can achieve.


Help them to be the best version of themselves that they can be. That's what I think a parent or coach should aim for. And with most things in life it takes hard work to improve or be good at something. Having a competitive edge feeds the hunger to work.

Dinny's point is a good one though - many parents are trying to live out their broken dreams through their kids. I saw it myself with some of my team mates (one guy in particular) when I was a kid so I swore I'd never do it myself with mine.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Jinxy on June 06, 2018, 10:21:54 PM
It's as if adults have forgotten what it is like to be a kid.
Throw a ball to a gang of 10 year olds and walk away from them.
Will they:
a) Happily pass the ball around in a circle ensuring equal time for everyone?
or,
b) Pick teams and try to beat each other?
There is a difference between healthy competition and unhealthy competition.
Unhealthy competition usually occurs only when the parents get involved.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: 6th sam on June 07, 2018, 10:12:26 AM
I see it in rugby I see it soccer I see it the GAA I see it in all sports. Under age coaches and the under age parents are too busy trying to live their lives vicariously through children. Sport for kids until they are 16 should only be about fun. Period. If you think differently ask yourself why?

Because winning is fun. And it builds memories.

Losing teaches you how to win.

Me and my mates played football in the playground every day of my young life. That was fun too. But I don’t remember any single match. It all blurs into one.

But I can remember dozens of matches from primary school, under 10, 12 and 14 level. Where I played, how I played, who won, and roughly the final score.


Would I swap that for a bundle more of blurry memories? Not a chance. Not a chance.

My 7 year old kicks points every evening with his cousin. They always keep score. Will they remember that when they’re 41? No chance. But every evening they’ve a start point to drive each other to get better. That’s why they’re both improving rapidly in the basics of the game.

Competition is a good thing.

Great post.
Fun is important particularly at younger age groups, but Healthy competition can equip children for the real world where toughness and resilience are essential attributes to develop as a person never mind an athlete.

In my experience, Regarding fun and enjoyment, some people  seem to ignore the fact that many sports oriented youngsters , as they get older , have fun and enjoy competition  and challenging themselves . We should be careful not to neglect those with this mentality , who are more likely to persist with competitive sport into adulthood, in favour of children with less interest who are less likely  to persist with competitive sport into adulthood.

I think the goal should be to emphasise fun and enjoyment for all to retain
 numbers but also try to provide a competitive challenge for those that need it. I think go-games works well in trying to provide that
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on June 07, 2018, 10:23:49 AM
It's as if adults have forgotten what it is like to be a kid.
Throw a ball to a gang of 10 year olds and walk away from them.
Will they:
a) Happily pass the ball around in a circle ensuring equal time for everyone?
or,
b) Pick teams and try to beat each other?
There is a difference between healthy competition and unhealthy competition.
Unhealthy competition usually occurs only when the parents get involved.

Exactly and it’s no different in any aspect of their lives. Any parents of an 11 year old will testify to the frustration of them if they lose a game online in FIFA or Fortnite or the like. They go crazy if they lose. They are naturally competitive. We hinder them in my opinion if w don’t harness that. It can be extreme sometimes and that is wrong but it should not be lost either
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Rudi on June 07, 2018, 10:27:59 AM
As an underage coach I have to admit this puts me right off. Who wants to end up in a national newspaper over the head of some grievance from a parent / another volunteer. f**k that.
Kimmage is making more out of this than there is, but's it now clear you have to be ultra, ultra cautious as a coach.

I agree. I'm a volunteer giving up 5 hours a week, losing money and some parents are unresponsive to texts, I send out for games so I have an idea of numbers. Now every move, every touch and word spoken is up for intense scrutiny.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: manfromdelmonte on June 07, 2018, 10:29:07 AM
look at the way some counties run their primary school competitions
in some counties  games are during school encouraging participation amongst all the pupils
in other counties they play the games after school or in the evenings so parents and the clubs can take over
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: mup on June 07, 2018, 10:49:57 AM

[/quote]

I agree. I'm a volunteer giving up 5 hours a week, losing money and some parents are unresponsive to texts, I send out for games so I have an idea of numbers. Now every move, every touch and word spoken is up for intense scrutiny.
[/quote]

I hear ya.

was involved up to this year for numerous years. It's a constant ongoing battle to get parents to respond to texts etc. It wears you down wondering if you have a team right up to throw-in.

I cannot see myself going back to it anytime soon.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: rosnarun on June 07, 2018, 11:04:19 AM
Why would GAA insurance even cover something like defamation?

I’d imagine it’s a catch all cover for GAA officers that they will be underwritten for issues arising discharging their role (however hairbrained they may be)

If the defamation came from the Chair of a Gaa meeting . the officer was acting on behalf of the GAA and they were open to be sued .
Would 'the driver ' be happy if the GAA completely washed its hand of the matter.
Maybe he wanted to sue both and make huge sums of money by holdng out the threat of major international righer of wrongs Kimmage,


I have lived in important places, times
When great events were decided, who owned
That half a rood of rock, a no-man's land
Surrounded by our pitchfork-armed claims.
I heard the Duffys shouting "Damn your soul!"
And old McCabe stripped to the waist, seen
Step the plot defying blue cast-steel -
"Here is the march along these iron stones."
That was the year of the Munich bother. Which
Was more important? I inclined
To lose my faith in Ballyrush and Gortin
Till Homer's ghost came whispering to my mind.
He said: I made the Iliad from such
A local row. Gods make their own importance.

 
Patrick Kavanagh
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: johnnycool on June 07, 2018, 12:49:57 PM
It's as if adults have forgotten what it is like to be a kid.
Throw a ball to a gang of 10 year olds and walk away from them.
Will they:
a) Happily pass the ball around in a circle ensuring equal time for everyone?
or,
b) Pick teams and try to beat each other?
There is a difference between healthy competition and unhealthy competition.
Unhealthy competition usually occurs only when the parents get involved.

Exactly and it’s no different in any aspect of their lives. Any parents of an 11 year old will testify to the frustration of them if they lose a game online in FIFA or Fortnite or the like. They go crazy if they lose. They are naturally competitive. We hinder them in my opinion if w don’t harness that. It can be extreme sometimes and that is wrong but it should not be lost either

Kids are instinctively competitive and that's a good thing.

The problems arise when the coach or parents along the line get competitive, do and say things that are beyond what should be deemed acceptable. Some coaches think they're managing senior teams at times.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: bigarsedkeeper on June 07, 2018, 01:40:27 PM
It's as if adults have forgotten what it is like to be a kid.
Throw a ball to a gang of 10 year olds and walk away from them.
Will they:
a) Happily pass the ball around in a circle ensuring equal time for everyone?
or,
b) Pick teams and try to beat each other?
There is a difference between healthy competition and unhealthy competition.
Unhealthy competition usually occurs only when the parents get involved.

Exactly and it’s no different in any aspect of their lives. Any parents of an 11 year old will testify to the frustration of them if they lose a game online in FIFA or Fortnite or the like. They go crazy if they lose. They are naturally competitive. We hinder them in my opinion if w don’t harness that. It can be extreme sometimes and that is wrong but it should not be lost either

Kids are instinctively competitive and that's a good thing.

The problems arise when the coach or parents along the line get competitive, do and say things that are beyond what should be deemed acceptable. Some coaches think they're managing senior teams at times.
I couldn't agree more with this last comment. Some parents and coaches shouldn't be near teams - roaring and shouting at young girls and boys and questioning referees decisions in U8 challenge matches.
I personally think one of the issues comes from what age kids start now. Some parents expect the kids to be at the same skill level they were when they started - which was probably under 12 - but they're telling their wee fella off for not kicking the ball over the bar. If he spend any time playing or coaching with the child he'd realise the 5 year old can't kick the ball from his hands yet. And usually the same da couldn't kick snow off a ditch.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Dinny Breen on June 08, 2018, 11:21:29 AM
I coach players to be warriors not winners, to give it there all and when they leave the pitch they have no regrets. I preach honesty, hard-work and playing for the team. These are life lessons I try to impart, when you win great, enjoy the feeling, when you lose you ask yourself/players what you could have done different and learn from it but you move on. Of course kids are competitive but there's winning the right way and there's winning the wrong way.

My own coaching philosophies.
 
Treat all players the same, no egos players or coaches, reward hard work and commitment with selection, don't be afraid to sacrifice short-term success for the longer-term, make it fun, respect the officials (I struggle here if I am honest) and the opposition.


Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on June 08, 2018, 11:44:49 AM
You've been reading this I see Dinny  ;) http://changingthegameproject.com/developing-warriors-not-winners-path-excellence/

I'd be on the same page as yourself, although I'm coaching u7 girls so they're not as competitive as boys. Trying to stay away from blitz style matches for this year, more game based. Although played some 2v2 matches a couple of weeks ago based on this http://www.icoachkids.eu/dribbling-football-how-a-children-centred-approach-led-belgian-youth-football-from-11v-1-into-2v2.html (http://www.icoachkids.eu/dribbling-football-how-a-children-centred-approach-led-belgian-youth-football-from-11v-1-into-2v2.html) and they went down a bomb (mainly due to the fact there was no keepers and everyone was scoring).
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Dinny Breen on June 08, 2018, 12:06:02 PM
Ha! No I get that from the All-Blacks, big influence on my coaching. But I have seen it other places too, did a sport-psych diploma and it comes up a lot. I would be big into intrinsic motivation, Jim Gavin and the Dublin footballers are big into the process, if they didn't have all that money I would be their biggest fan  ;D

Good read and I am going to rob that second link.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Boycey on June 10, 2018, 09:17:14 PM
I see Kimmage has had another pop today...
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: bennydorano on June 10, 2018, 09:33:19 PM
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/paul-kimmage-why-is-no-one-being-held-to-account-in-the-gaa-36993655.html

Thinks it's official, PK is gunning for the GAA.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Orchard park on June 11, 2018, 04:24:59 PM
If anyone ever needed a righ trimming it's that fuckd up ex cyclist
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Jinxy on June 11, 2018, 04:29:09 PM
I believe his next article will lift the lid on blood doping in Go Games.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Baile Brigín on June 11, 2018, 05:00:43 PM
As a local involved in the club people seem to be missing two points.

1. The GAA, in the absence of any censure are perceived to be backing the club and Liam Howley.

2. Howley is destroying the club. And the club was struggling long before this incident.

The Driver is a committed Gael and refused to take money from the club. He is entirely the wronged party. His treatment is disgusting and the ordinary members have been cut off at the knees. Refusing to allow the kids on that team play, punishing them to get at the Driver, is a disgrace. We aren't losing kids to other clubs, we are losing them to the far better run soccer and rugby clubs in the area. Better facilities, none of this messing.

I can only assume the DCB and Croke Park are backing him because of the property play with Fingal CC to move up the road in a land swap. And they are having to do that because the facilities are a shambles.

I have serious fears for the club and efforts to get answers, let alone accountability have been stonewalled.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Boycey on June 11, 2018, 05:23:28 PM
You woundnt have an agenda would ya Baile Brigin?
I was told today that Kimmage himself was the person who was put out of the meeting is this true?
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: magpie seanie on June 12, 2018, 09:24:24 AM
Baile Brigín - when is the club AGM?
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Jinxy on June 12, 2018, 09:53:54 AM
Wait a minute, is there a suggestion that 'The Parent' is Kimmage?
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: yellowcard on June 12, 2018, 10:26:19 AM
I don't think this story is going to go away in fact I think it will only escalate. Kimmage is like a dog with a bone when he gets into a story.

I'm not sure if a national newspaper is the forum to air local issues and the first story he wrote was very much a local issue I felt. There was no need to bring it to a national audience. However the issue around who paid the €20k for the Balbriggan chairman's legal settlement is not one that is going to go away until answered I feel.   
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Jinxy on June 12, 2018, 10:49:30 AM
Kimmage's daughter plays/played for Clann Mhuire in the Naul, so I'm guessing he lives in the Naul/Balbriggan area himself.
If he has any personal involvement in the events described in this case, outside of his role as an objective journalist, he needs to state that very clearly.
Reading the account of 'The Parent' and his interaction with the chairman now, all I can hear is Kimmage's voice.
Might be way off but I don't like his selective approach to anonymity in this case.
I still want to know the origins of the payment to settle the legal proceedings, but something feels a bit off to me.
Don't think we're getting the full picture here.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: thewobbler on June 12, 2018, 11:22:10 AM
I don't think this story is going to go away in fact I think it will only escalate. Kimmage is like a dog with a bone when he gets into a story.

I'm not sure if a national newspaper is the forum to air local issues and the first story he wrote was very much a local issue I felt. There was no need to bring it to a national audience. However the issue around who paid the €20k for the Balbriggan chairman's legal settlement is not one that is going to go away until answered I feel.

I would reckon the general apathy and disinterest generated by his articles to date will lead to him finding a new sport for his disdain.

Local problems don’t need national airing. I’m guessing he’s worked that out too.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on June 12, 2018, 11:36:01 AM
Can't imagine Kimmage leaving a meeting like the Parent did.

Don't have an issue with him detailing what shysters like Howley get up to in the national media either, can take 10 years to undo the damage egotistical heads like him cause.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: yellowcard on June 12, 2018, 11:52:43 AM
I don't think this story is going to go away in fact I think it will only escalate. Kimmage is like a dog with a bone when he gets into a story.

I'm not sure if a national newspaper is the forum to air local issues and the first story he wrote was very much a local issue I felt. There was no need to bring it to a national audience. However the issue around who paid the €20k for the Balbriggan chairman's legal settlement is not one that is going to go away until answered I feel.

I would reckon the general apathy and disinterest generated by his articles to date will lead to him finding a new sport for his disdain.

Local problems don’t need national airing. I’m guessing he’s worked that out too.

It was very much a local issue but only up as far as the point where €20k was paid for on behalf of Liam Howley by a company associated with the GAA. That is the only part that is in the national interest since it appears as though this money has been sanctioned by GAA HQ to be spent at national level on behalf of an individual.

   
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: thewobbler on June 12, 2018, 11:58:19 AM
Yes but every club in Ireland is now centrally insured by the GAA for public liability and employer insurance. While this policy may or may not include defamation (I’ve no idea), I’d expect it was, as with all major claims, assessed and pursued centrally. It may have been more prudent to pay the sum from GAA funds rather than go through insurance and legals. Which, let’s be honest, is normal behaviour.

While I wouldn’t go so far as to say “there’s nothing to see here”, it’s not perhaps as cloudy as it looks.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Jinxy on June 12, 2018, 12:06:03 PM
Garwyn Ireland Ltd. are an insurance company.
Dunno why Kimmage doesn't just say this in the article.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Hound on June 12, 2018, 12:26:47 PM
Garwyn Ireland Ltd. are an insurance company.
Dunno why Kimmage doesn't just say this in the article.
Well we do. He wants to create controversy.
Like the BS about "nobody told my lad that he played well after the game"
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Boycey on June 12, 2018, 12:51:24 PM
I was told yesterday by someone who be well placed to hear the inside track on this that Kimmage was the 'Parent' I'm sure Baile Brigin can confirm or deny this easily if they wish? 

IF it's true I'd be very disappointed in Kimmage to be honest..
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Jinxy on June 12, 2018, 01:01:03 PM
Get on Twitter and ask the man himself directly, Boycey.
I would but I don't have an account.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Hound on June 12, 2018, 01:10:13 PM
I was told yesterday by someone who be well placed to hear the inside track on this that Kimmage was the 'Parent' I'm sure Baile Brigin can confirm or deny this easily if they wish? 

IF it's true I'd be very disappointed in Kimmage to be honest..
It does make sense. Certainly in the case of "The Parent" that was at the meeting. As he was told he'd no right to talk at a club meeting as he wasn't a member. 
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Jinxy on June 12, 2018, 01:26:53 PM
As a local involved in the club people seem to be missing two points.

1. The GAA, in the absence of any censure are perceived to be backing the club and Liam Howley.

2. Howley is destroying the club. And the club was struggling long before this incident.

The Driver is a committed Gael and refused to take money from the club. He is entirely the wronged party. His treatment is disgusting and the ordinary members have been cut off at the knees. Refusing to allow the kids on that team play, punishing them to get at the Driver, is a disgrace. We aren't losing kids to other clubs, we are losing them to the far better run soccer and rugby clubs in the area. Better facilities, none of this messing.

I can only assume the DCB and Croke Park are backing him because of the property play with Fingal CC to move up the road in a land swap. And they are having to do that because the facilities are a shambles.

I have serious fears for the club and efforts to get answers, let alone accountability have been stonewalled.

To the best of your knowledge,
a) Was Paul Kimmage in attendance at the AGM?
b) Was he 'The Parent', whose actions were described in the article?
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on June 12, 2018, 02:02:23 PM
Get on Twitter and ask the man himself directly, Boycey.
I would but I don't have an account.

Done
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: heffo on June 12, 2018, 02:16:06 PM
As a local involved in the club people seem to be missing two points.

1. The GAA, in the absence of any censure are perceived to be backing the club and Liam Howley.

2. Howley is destroying the club. And the club was struggling long before this incident.

The Driver is a committed Gael and refused to take money from the club. He is entirely the wronged party. His treatment is disgusting and the ordinary members have been cut off at the knees. Refusing to allow the kids on that team play, punishing them to get at the Driver, is a disgrace. We aren't losing kids to other clubs, we are losing them to the far better run soccer and rugby clubs in the area. Better facilities, none of this messing.

I can only assume the DCB and Croke Park are backing him because of the property play with Fingal CC to move up the road in a land swap. And they are having to do that because the facilities are a shambles.

I have serious fears for the club and efforts to get answers, let alone accountability have been stonewalled.

To the best of your knowledge,
a) Was Paul Kimmage in attendance at the AGM? Y
b) Was he 'The Parent', whose actions were described in the article? N

AFAIK
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Jinxy on June 12, 2018, 02:18:31 PM
Get on Twitter and ask the man himself directly, Boycey.
I would but I don't have an account.

Done


Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: yellowcard on June 12, 2018, 02:31:43 PM
If indeed Kimmage was the parent then it does call into question his impartiality and also his motives for making this case known nationally. I still maintain that the question of a third party settling legal fee's to the tune of €20k is the only item of any interest. The rest of it is just local squabbling he said she said stuff that happens in plenty of clubs up and down the country.

Kimmage is a fine journalist but he should really be concentrating on cycling, athletics and other international sport rather than reduce himself to these petty local squabbles. 
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Orchard park on June 12, 2018, 02:43:05 PM
I don't agree 're rummage being a fine journalist. I think he is a bitter shot stirrer no just based on his recent anti GAA  diatribes
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Jinxy on June 12, 2018, 02:47:25 PM
He has raised valid concerns, and as a GAA member I think those concerns should be addressed.
However, transparency cuts both ways and I can't shake the feeling that Kimmage has not been 100% transparent when it comes to his involvement in all of this.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Hardy on June 12, 2018, 03:04:50 PM
If he's writing a story in which he's centrally involved without declaring that involvement, indeed hiding that involvement by referring to himself as a third party, then he can bin his journalistic credibility. That's why I can't believe he's the parent - he'd have to know he'd never get away with that.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: heffo on June 12, 2018, 03:11:07 PM
That's why I can't believe he's the parent - he'd have to know he'd never get away with that.

He's not
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Boycey on June 12, 2018, 03:20:17 PM
That's why I can't believe he's the parent - he'd have to know he'd never get away with that.

He's not

Lets say you are right Heffo and it is plausible that he was there but wasn't "The Parent' I still reckon hes dishonestly representing the story?
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Jinxy on June 12, 2018, 03:27:13 PM
How would he even get into the AGM?
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Jinxy on June 12, 2018, 03:32:41 PM
Anyway, hopefully Baile Brigín can clear this up for us.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on June 12, 2018, 03:34:25 PM
If indeed Kimmage was the parent then it does call into question his impartiality and also his motives for making this case known nationally. I still maintain that the question of a third party settling legal fee's to the tune of €20k is the only item of any interest. The rest of it is just local squabbling he said she said stuff that happens in plenty of clubs up and down the country.

Kimmage is a fine journalist but he should really be concentrating on cycling, athletics and other international sport rather than reduce himself to these petty local squabbles.

Nothing he said she said about announcing to all in sundry at a parent committee meeting that the previous coach was dismissed by the committee because he inappropriately laid his hands on a child. Now with all the implications and connotations that accusation invokes I don't believe there's a man here who wouldn't take the actions the coach had to take. If that's the kind of leadership the chairman is setting God knows what's going on in the rest of the club. I know if I lived in Balbriggan I'd be delighted to see this in the Sunday paper.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Jinxy on June 12, 2018, 03:39:36 PM
The chairman should have been held personally accountable for his ridiculous actions.
Neither the club, nor the GAA centrally, should have paid any money towards settling this dispute.
I think we probably all agree on that.
That is the core of the story for me.
All the other stuff about coaches, parents etc. is local news, at best.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on June 12, 2018, 04:59:49 PM
You woundnt have an agenda would ya Baile Brigin?
I was told today that Kimmage himself was the person who was put out of the meeting is this true?

Apologies, made a bags of my profile.

My agenda is a better run club, accountability and members having a say. We cannot have this bad press and a refusal to discuss it as our committee are hiding behind legal advice.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on June 12, 2018, 05:01:02 PM
Baile Brigín - when is the club AGM?
end of the year usually. As early as late November, as late as mid Jan.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on June 12, 2018, 05:03:36 PM
As a local involved in the club people seem to be missing two points.

1. The GAA, in the absence of any censure are perceived to be backing the club and Liam Howley.

2. Howley is destroying the club. And the club was struggling long before this incident.

The Driver is a committed Gael and refused to take money from the club. He is entirely the wronged party. His treatment is disgusting and the ordinary members have been cut off at the knees. Refusing to allow the kids on that team play, punishing them to get at the Driver, is a disgrace. We aren't losing kids to other clubs, we are losing them to the far better run soccer and rugby clubs in the area. Better facilities, none of this messing.

I can only assume the DCB and Croke Park are backing him because of the property play with Fingal CC to move up the road in a land swap. And they are having to do that because the facilities are a shambles.

I have serious fears for the club and efforts to get answers, let alone accountability have been stonewalled.

To the best of your knowledge,
a) Was Paul Kimmage in attendance at the AGM?
b) Was he 'The Parent', whose actions were described in the article?

A. No.

B. I wasn't at the meeting with the parents. I would like to think I would have heard of a journalist being removed, and I haven't.

Kimmage is not really the story here. This was always hitting the press.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on June 12, 2018, 05:05:37 PM
If indeed Kimmage was the parent then it does call into question his impartiality and also his motives for making this case known nationally. I still maintain that the question of a third party settling legal fee's to the tune of €20k is the only item of any interest. The rest of it is just local squabbling he said she said stuff that happens in plenty of clubs up and down the country.

Kimmage is a fine journalist but he should really be concentrating on cycling, athletics and other international sport rather than reduce himself to these petty local squabbles.

Nothing he said she said about announcing to all in sundry at a parent committee meeting that the previous coach was dismissed by the committee because he inappropriately laid his hands on a child. Now with all the implications and connotations that accusation invokes I don't believe there's a man here who wouldn't take the actions the coach had to take. If that's the kind of leadership the chairman is setting God knows what's going on in the rest of the club. I know if I lived in Balbriggan I'd be delighted to see this in the Sunday paper.
and then told the matter is closed on legal advice, no discussion, no accountability.

Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on June 12, 2018, 05:08:45 PM
If indeed Kimmage was the parent then it does call into question his impartiality and also his motives for making this case known nationally. I still maintain that the question of a third party settling legal fee's to the tune of €20k is the only item of any interest. The rest of it is just local squabbling he said she said stuff that happens in plenty of clubs up and down the country.

Kimmage is a fine journalist but he should really be concentrating on cycling, athletics and other international sport rather than reduce himself to these petty local squabbles.

Calling a lifelong volunteer a paedophile in a public forum is a tad more than a petty local squabble. As the courts agreed.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: yellowcard on June 12, 2018, 05:30:53 PM
If indeed Kimmage was the parent then it does call into question his impartiality and also his motives for making this case known nationally. I still maintain that the question of a third party settling legal fee's to the tune of €20k is the only item of any interest. The rest of it is just local squabbling he said she said stuff that happens in plenty of clubs up and down the country.

Kimmage is a fine journalist but he should really be concentrating on cycling, athletics and other international sport rather than reduce himself to these petty local squabbles.

Calling a lifelong volunteer a paedophile in a public forum is a tad more than a petty local squabble. As the courts agreed.

I'm not privy to the ins and outs of this case and to be honest when you don't know the personnel involved it is easy to forget the jist of the original allegation made in Kimmage's article. I take your point completely that if the court found him guilty of making false allegations of paedophilia against a fellow member then it is a lot more serious than a squabble which I originally stated. You obviously have the inside track, most people on here are just going on hearsay. 
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on June 12, 2018, 05:37:13 PM
If indeed Kimmage was the parent then it does call into question his impartiality and also his motives for making this case known nationally. I still maintain that the question of a third party settling legal fee's to the tune of €20k is the only item of any interest. The rest of it is just local squabbling he said she said stuff that happens in plenty of clubs up and down the country.

Kimmage is a fine journalist but he should really be concentrating on cycling, athletics and other international sport rather than reduce himself to these petty local squabbles.

Calling a lifelong volunteer a paedophile in a public forum is a tad more than a petty local squabble. As the courts agreed.

I'm not privy to the ins and outs of this case and to be honest when you don't know the personnel involved it is easy to forget the jist of the original allegation made in Kimmage's article. I take your point completely that if the court found him guilty of making false allegations of paedophilia against a fellow member then it is a lot more serious than a squabble which I originally stated. You obviously have the inside track, most people on here are just going on hearsay.

I'm not having a pop at you, I genuinely can see why you would think that.

But to those talking about kimmage this and kimmage that, does it matter who broke the story? Be honest, how would you react if this was your club? Fall in line knowing it's wrong and have faith lessons were learned? Try and have people removed in the middle of a property deal that will make or break the club? Jack it in and go elsewhere? Its an appalling situation and the club is split over it.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: yellowcard on June 12, 2018, 05:59:13 PM
If indeed Kimmage was the parent then it does call into question his impartiality and also his motives for making this case known nationally. I still maintain that the question of a third party settling legal fee's to the tune of €20k is the only item of any interest. The rest of it is just local squabbling he said she said stuff that happens in plenty of clubs up and down the country.

Kimmage is a fine journalist but he should really be concentrating on cycling, athletics and other international sport rather than reduce himself to these petty local squabbles.

Calling a lifelong volunteer a paedophile in a public forum is a tad more than a petty local squabble. As the courts agreed.

I'm not privy to the ins and outs of this case and to be honest when you don't know the personnel involved it is easy to forget the jist of the original allegation made in Kimmage's article. I take your point completely that if the court found him guilty of making false allegations of paedophilia against a fellow member then it is a lot more serious than a squabble which I originally stated. You obviously have the inside track, most people on here are just going on hearsay.

I'm not having a pop at you, I genuinely can see why you would think that.

But to those talking about kimmage this and kimmage that, does it matter who broke the story? Be honest, how would you react if this was your club? Fall in line knowing it's wrong and have faith lessons were learned? Try and have people removed in the middle of a property deal that will make or break the club? Jack it in and go elsewhere? Its an appalling situation and the club is split over it.

If Kimmage's account is true, then any self respecting individual in Howley's shoes would simply step down and put the club before himself. 
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: rosnarun on June 12, 2018, 06:10:02 PM
If indeed Kimmage was the parent then it does call into question his impartiality and also his motives for making this case known nationally. I still maintain that the question of a third party settling legal fee's to the tune of €20k is the only item of any interest. The rest of it is just local squabbling he said she said stuff that happens in plenty of clubs up and down the country.

Kimmage is a fine journalist but he should really be concentrating on cycling, athletics and other international sport rather than reduce himself to these petty local squabbles.

Calling a lifelong volunteer a paedophile in a public forum is a tad more than a petty local squabble. As the courts agreed.

he did not call him a  paedophile he said he "Two years ago he inappropriately laid his hands on a child."
which is a million miles from want to have sex with a child .
one deserves and reprimand the other deserves a long time in prison.
it  MAY seem  inappropriate to slap a child esp some one elses or in this case to carry a child forcefully from the field (even though he had the parent go ahead)
what the chairman said was still incorrect but lets not always assume the worst in all cases. this just leads to secrecy and people being unwilling to coach teams . as people know any 'child issue ' has the capability to destoy some one life and career
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: bennydorano on June 12, 2018, 06:13:46 PM
Yeah, I was wondering where the Paedophile thing had sprung from. It's a shitty enough situation without throwing more fuel on the fire.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on June 12, 2018, 06:22:00 PM
I won't attach guilt to any individual, but rumours were circulated to that effect. That and he battered a kid. Might or might not be the same kid. And the Driver did get 20k.

The point being the comments could be interpreted many ways. Which is why they were so so scurrilous.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Hound on June 13, 2018, 07:29:01 AM
I won't attach guilt to any individual, but rumours were circulated to that effect. That and he battered a kid. Might or might not be the same kid. And the Driver did get 20k.

The point being the comments could be interpreted many ways. Which is why they were so so scurrilous.

But you're making stuff up now. Kimmage was clearly trying to paint the Chairman in the worst possible light, but you've gone and doubled down on it, despite not being at the meeting!

From what I've heard from locals, it's not like the incident was plucked out of the air. It was something that was talked about at the time. People witnessed a man picking up crying child, who roared more when lifted, and wondered what was going on. It was talked about. Of course, the Driver did nothing wrong as the child's parent was right there.

And of course the Chairman was very wrong to say what he did and it's hard to understand how he's still in place. But clearly it wasn't as bad as you are suggesting, as €20k, including legal fees, would be a very meagre settlement in that case. Although I believe it's fair to say the Driver's motivation was never money.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Hound on June 13, 2018, 07:39:10 AM
I still maintain that the question of a third party settling legal fees to the tune of €20k is the only item of any interest. The rest of it is just local squabbling he said she said stuff that happens in plenty of clubs up and down the country.

This has been covered on this thread a number of times!

It wasn't a third party. It was the GAA's insurance crowd.


The chairman should have been held personally accountable for his ridiculous actions.
Neither the club, nor the GAA centrally, should have paid any money towards settling this dispute.
I think we probably all agree on that.
That is the core of the story for me.
All the other stuff about coaches, parents etc. is local news, at best.

I don't agree. The comment was clearly made in his role as chairman. He was, in fact, chairing a meeting of the club when he said it. Any actions as role of chairman have to be covered by insurance. Otherwise nobody would be chairman. We don't know whether this plan of action was something he made up on the spot, or something agreed in advance by a big committee and left to the chairman to state. But either way he was the chairman of the club explaining why a coach of the club had been removed as coach.

The GAA had to ensure their insurance covered it. The mystery for me is why they haven't said to the chairman that what he did was totally out of order and therefore you're stepping down as chairman.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on June 13, 2018, 10:15:05 AM
I won't attach guilt to any individual, but rumours were circulated to that effect. That and he battered a kid. Might or might not be the same kid. And the Driver did get 20k.

The point being the comments could be interpreted many ways. Which is why they were so so scurrilous.

But you're making stuff up now. Kimmage was clearly trying to paint the Chairman in the worst possible light, but you've gone and doubled down on it, despite not being at the meeting!

From what I've heard from locals, it's not like the incident was plucked out of the air. It was something that was talked about at the time. People witnessed a man picking up crying child, who roared more when lifted, and wondered what was going on. It was talked about. Of course, the Driver did nothing wrong as the child's parent was right there.

And of course the Chairman was very wrong to say what he did and it's hard to understand how he's still in place. But clearly it wasn't as bad as you are suggesting, as €20k, including legal fees, would be a very meagre settlement in that case. Although I believe it's fair to say the Driver's motivation was never money.
Not my objective.

If you didn't know the back story, and lots of people didn't, what would you take the comment to mean?
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: trileacman on June 13, 2018, 07:40:38 PM
What kind of lazy f**ker gets someone else to lift their crying child off a football pitch? Why the f**k wouldn't you go out and do it yourself?
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on July 17, 2018, 07:05:18 PM
A bit off topic but some nice trolling from Kimmage from the weekend.
https://twitter.com/PaulKimmage/status/1018219553040621568
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: WT4E on July 17, 2018, 11:47:49 PM
A bit off topic but some nice trolling from Kimmage from the weekend.
https://twitter.com/PaulKimmage/status/1018219553040621568

I often wondered are the Dubs doping?? Its plausible! They missed a test once or twice didnt they? But I suppose anyone can miss test - its happened to some of the best sports stars in the world - Mo Farah - Bradley Wiggans etc.

Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Hound on July 18, 2018, 08:37:30 AM
A bit off topic but some nice trolling from Kimmage from the weekend.
https://twitter.com/PaulKimmage/status/1018219553040621568

I often wondered are the Dubs doping?? Its plausible! They missed a test once or twice didnt they? But I suppose anyone can miss test - its happened to some of the best sports stars in the world - Mo Farah - Bradley Wiggans etc.
No!

It’s plausible that any individual on any team might be doing something on his own to try and make the team, like the big Kerry eejit, but there’d be very very few managers who would entertain the idea, and certainly not Jim Gavin!
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Dinny Breen on July 18, 2018, 10:33:38 AM
A bit off topic but some nice trolling from Kimmage from the weekend.
https://twitter.com/PaulKimmage/status/1018219553040621568

I often wondered are the Dubs doping?? Its plausible! They missed a test once or twice didnt they? But I suppose anyone can miss test - its happened to some of the best sports stars in the world - Mo Farah - Bradley Wiggans etc.
No!

It’s plausible that any individual on any team might be doing something on his own to try and make the team, like the big Kerry eejit, but there’d be very very few managers who would entertain the idea, and certainly not Jim Gavin!

There is definitely individual doping in the GAA but certainly not at a systemic level encompassing an entire county team.





Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: WT4E on July 18, 2018, 06:47:07 PM
A bit off topic but some nice trolling from Kimmage from the weekend.
https://twitter.com/PaulKimmage/status/1018219553040621568

I often wondered are the Dubs doping?? Its plausible! They missed a test once or twice didnt they? But I suppose anyone can miss test - its happened to some of the best sports stars in the world - Mo Farah - Bradley Wiggans etc.
No!

It’s plausible that any individual on any team might be doing something on his own to try and make the team, like the big Kerry eejit, but there’d be very very few managers who would entertain the idea, and certainly not Jim Gavin!

There is definitely individual doping in the GAA but certainly not at a systemic level encompassing an entire county team.

Yeah more I think about it it would be too hard to keep a lid on a squad - much easier in individual sports. I tkae it back they aren't doping....... as a team! :)
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: MC on September 08, 2019, 11:42:06 PM
“It was the first time in the history of the club that O'Dwyer's had won a hurling league”

More important question - how did the driver manage to do that - I could do with a coaching class from this guy!
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 09, 2019, 01:04:31 PM
A bit off topic but some nice trolling from Kimmage from the weekend.
https://twitter.com/PaulKimmage/status/1018219553040621568

I often wondered are the Dubs doping?? Its plausible! They missed a test once or twice didnt they? But I suppose anyone can miss test - its happened to some of the best sports stars in the world - Mo Farah - Bradley Wiggans etc.

Probably not the best examples of missed tests....if you scratch just a little under the surface of both these guys there is a fair chance those tests were missed for a reason.

As prior stated, there'll be no systematic doping in GAA. But I'd imagine individual players would certainly be pushing the boundaries even at a very basic club level (pre workout powders etc).

That said, people will think of the more muscular players in GAA - Adding size has little to no effect in the modern game, doping will encompass the area of stimulants etc. There is a reason so many high level athletes have a need for inhalers and  ;)
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: TheOptimist on September 09, 2019, 01:22:30 PM
A bit off topic but some nice trolling from Kimmage from the weekend.
https://twitter.com/PaulKimmage/status/1018219553040621568

I often wondered are the Dubs doping?? Its plausible! They missed a test once or twice didnt they? But I suppose anyone can miss test - its happened to some of the best sports stars in the world - Mo Farah - Bradley Wiggans etc.

Probably not the best examples of missed tests....if you scratch just a little under the surface of both these guys there is a fair chance those tests were missed for a reason.

As prior stated, there'll be no systematic doping in GAA. But I'd imagine individual players would certainly be pushing the boundaries even at a very basic club level (pre workout powders etc).

That said, people will think of the more muscular players in GAA - Adding size has little to no effect in the modern game, doping will encompass the area of stimulants etc. There is a reason so many high level athletes have a need for inhalers and  ;)

There has been only been one team in the GAA that I have ever suspected of doping. And it is not Dublin!
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: pbat on September 09, 2019, 03:49:22 PM
Often wondered why Kimmage, Walsh or some other Journalist didn't do after Farah the way they went after Armstrong.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 09, 2019, 04:18:24 PM
Often wondered why Kimmage, Walsh or some other Journalist didn't do after Farah the way they went after Armstrong.

Armstrong was fairly powerful and intimidating owing to his success, personality and probably was daunting for anyone to even attempt it despite it being fairly open knowledge from what we know now in cycling circles.

Imagine going after Nike, one of the richest companies in the world? Nearly impossible - But it's been attempted with that investigation into Salazar his coach and therefore the Nike Oregon project.

That said, think the Russian hackers from ages ago released stuff on Farah stating that he was already under investigation due to irregularities on his biological passport, would need to look it up but again it went away pretty quickly.
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 09, 2019, 04:18:46 PM
A bit off topic but some nice trolling from Kimmage from the weekend.
https://twitter.com/PaulKimmage/status/1018219553040621568

I often wondered are the Dubs doping?? Its plausible! They missed a test once or twice didnt they? But I suppose anyone can miss test - its happened to some of the best sports stars in the world - Mo Farah - Bradley Wiggans etc.

Probably not the best examples of missed tests....if you scratch just a little under the surface of both these guys there is a fair chance those tests were missed for a reason.

As prior stated, there'll be no systematic doping in GAA. But I'd imagine individual players would certainly be pushing the boundaries even at a very basic club level (pre workout powders etc).

That said, people will think of the more muscular players in GAA - Adding size has little to no effect in the modern game, doping will encompass the area of stimulants etc. There is a reason so many high level athletes have a need for inhalers and  ;)

There has been only been one team in the GAA that I have ever suspected of doping. And it is not Dublin!

I'll snap....go on....
Title: Re: Kimmage article about the scandal at O Dwyer's
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on September 10, 2019, 01:24:18 PM
Often wondered why Kimmage, Walsh or some other Journalist didn't do after Farah the way they went after Armstrong.
Because Armstrong corrupted a team. Take drugs or lose your job and livelihood. Team doctors had to assist or slso move on.