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Non GAA Discussion => General discussion => Topic started by: yellowcard on April 06, 2018, 02:32:16 PM

Title: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: yellowcard on April 06, 2018, 02:32:16 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-43670607

A belated apology but a welcome one.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 06, 2018, 02:37:58 PM
That will keep the campaigners off his back...... Ah, no it won't!

Do these campaigners go around checking everyones phones and whatsapps messages to see if they are being clean living? Who the fcuk takes out a whole full page ad in a paper asking for someone to be sacked? Numpties, they should get a job or look after their kids  ;)
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Dougal Maguire on April 06, 2018, 02:43:49 PM
Why does the BBC feel a need to constantly refer to him as Paddy Jackson, recently acquitted of rape?  I think there are at least 3 uses of that phrase in the first few lines. Pretty pathetic if you ask me and suggests a particular vendetta against Jackson and Olding. In other news that rag The Irish News is carrying an exclusive that the washed out former politician Conal McDavitt is handing back his season ticket. I'm sure Ulster Rughy won't sleep a wink tonight
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: sid waddell on April 06, 2018, 02:46:21 PM




Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Minder on April 06, 2018, 02:49:25 PM
That will keep the campaigners off his back...... Ah, no it won't!

Do these campaigners go around checking everyones phones and whatsapps messages to see if they are being clean living? Who the fcuk takes out a whole full page ad in a paper asking for someone to be sacked? Numpties, they should get a job or look after their kids  ;)

And as is the way these days they didn’t pay for it themselves
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 06, 2018, 03:00:11 PM
Sorry
Is all that you can say
Years gone by and still
PR words don't come easily
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AZOffaly on April 06, 2018, 03:00:26 PM




Are you saying his statement is Stoatal bullshit?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: sid waddell on April 06, 2018, 03:07:31 PM

Are you saying his statement is Stoatal bullshit?
It's TB.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: sid waddell on April 06, 2018, 03:22:31 PM
Sorry
Is all that you can say
Years gone by and still
PR words don't come easily

You never listen to a word that I said
You only seen me
For the clothes that I wear
Or did the interest go so much deeper
It must have been
The colour of my hair

The public image

What you wanted was never made clear
Behind the image was ignorance and fear
You hide behind this public machine
Still follow the same old scheme

Public image

Two sides to every story
Somebody had to stop me
I'm not the same as when I began
I will not be treated as property

Public image

Public image you got what you wanted
The Public Image belongs to me
It's my entrance
My own creation
My grand finale
My goodbye
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AZOffaly on April 06, 2018, 03:41:48 PM

Are you saying his statement is Stoatal bullshit?
It's TB.
`

Yeah, with statements like that, he's in ferret with the media.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: magpie seanie on April 06, 2018, 03:45:16 PM
Remember when they made Fr Jack "apologise" on Fr Ted?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AZOffaly on April 06, 2018, 03:45:39 PM
Remember when they made Fr Jack "apologise" on Fr Ted?

I'm sooooooooo sooorrrrrryyyyy.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AZOffaly on April 06, 2018, 03:48:21 PM
I thought Olding's apology/statement on the steps of the courthouse was good PR, and left a bit of a better impression of him.

This has all the hallmarks of someone trying to claw back the bad PR, because bad PR means he's done as a rugby player in Ireland, and he's trying to ape Olding's statement. Unfortunately for him, he's left it too late and threatened to sue people on twitter and elsewhere, so now it looks just like a cynical PR excercise.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: sid waddell on April 06, 2018, 03:52:40 PM

Are you saying his statement is Stoatal bullshit?
It's TB.
`

Yeah, with statements like that, he's in ferret with the media.
I thought I saw Stephen Ferret badgering women while drinking pints of stoat, claiming he could weasely pull any woman in the bar, but it was actually anotter Ulster player. He now claims he was possumbly sett-up, or summink.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AZOffaly on April 06, 2018, 03:58:36 PM

Are you saying his statement is Stoatal bullshit?
It's TB.
`

Yeah, with statements like that, he's in ferret with the media.
I thought I saw Stephen Ferret badgering women while drinking pints of stoat, claiming he could weasely pull any woman in the bar, but it was actually anotter Ulster player. He now claims he was possumbly sett-up, or summink.


Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AQMP on April 06, 2018, 04:03:23 PM
Patrick giving evidence (March 7):

It's Jackson's assertion that whatever made the complainant upset happened after she left his house.

Patrick not giving evidence (April 6):

I am ashamed that a young woman who was a visitor to my home left in a distressed state...

Well, the other thread is locked ;)

Let's get this up to 245 pages!
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AQMP on April 06, 2018, 04:06:09 PM
On a more serious note it would seem that Paddy and his team have finally cottoned on to how the internet works.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: David McKeown on April 06, 2018, 04:08:51 PM
It's a very strange statement to make when threatening to sue someone for defamation. To admit your reputation is so tarnished by your own actions it's hard to see why you should be recompensed by anything else said.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AQMP on April 06, 2018, 04:10:34 PM
It's a very strange statement to make when threatening to sue someone for defamation. To admit your reputation is so tarnished by your own actions it's hard to see why you should be recompensed by anything else said.

I'd think anyone he sues might use the defence of truth there David!
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: David McKeown on April 06, 2018, 04:59:19 PM
Not entirely sure they would all have that defence particularly those who have claimed he was only acquitted because of his social status.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: yellowcard on April 06, 2018, 05:07:28 PM
It's a very strange statement to make when threatening to sue someone for defamation. To admit your reputation is so tarnished by your own actions it's hard to see why you should be recompensed by anything else said.

I think that it's possible that he was living in that much of a legal whirlpool for 2/3 months surrounded by solicitors and QC's that he failed to realise the lack of humanity he showed in the immediate aftermath of the verdict. If he had any sense he would drop the lawsuit now and try and rebuild his reputation. The apology is a start even if it took over a week in coming.   
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on April 06, 2018, 05:08:42 PM
Even Paddy Jackson isn't as boisterous in his own defence as some here are. Lol.

Pretty obviously a pathetic PR exercise, by the way.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 06, 2018, 05:19:39 PM
Sorry
Is all that you can say
Years gone by and still
PR words don't come easily

You never listen to a word that I said
You only seen me
For the clothes that I wear
Or did the interest go so much deeper
It must have been
The colour of my hair

The public image

What you wanted was never made clear
Behind the image was ignorance and fear
You hide behind this public machine
Still follow the same old scheme

Public image

Two sides to every story
Somebody had to stop me
I'm not the same as when I began
I will not be treated as property

Public image

Public image you got what you wanted
The Public Image belongs to me
It's my entrance
My own creation
My grand finale
My goodbye

Your praised little PR gifts you spent your money
And stuffed me with
Didn't amount to anything
The attention I need is much more serious

A kind of weight you couldn't lift
Even if your cheap career depended on it

Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on April 06, 2018, 05:49:42 PM
Bet the Mods are delighted at the timing of PJs statement 😃
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Owen Brannigan on April 06, 2018, 06:05:21 PM
Given the length of the trial and the amount of money that the Jacksons spent on legal costs getting the best they could afford and spending around £500K, it is strange that no one thought it was worthwhile spending a fraction on PR advice from professionals.  Instead they rushed to the press and the whole group came across as belligerent, using their anger to further profess Paddy's innocence and this fed into the protests fuelled by the social media frenzy that built up from the first day of the trial.

Obviously, PR advice now accepted by Jackson has led to the apology in an attempt to give him a base on which to appeal to IRFU and Ulster Rugby.  It will have no affect on those calling for their exclusion but only a small number of men on the IRFU panel will have the final say.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on April 06, 2018, 06:52:15 PM
Given the length of the trial and the amount of money that the Jacksons spent on legal costs getting the best they could afford and spending around £500K, it is strange that no one thought it was worthwhile spending a fraction on PR advice from professionals.  Instead they rushed to the press and the whole group came across as belligerent, using their anger to further profess Paddy's innocence and this fed into the protests fuelled by the social media frenzy that built up from the first day of the trial.

Obviously, PR advice now accepted by Jackson has led to the apology in an attempt to give him a base on which to appeal to IRFU and Ulster Rugby.  It will have no affect on those calling for their exclusion but only a small number of men on the IRFU panel will have the final say.

That small number of men are totally subservient to the general public and their continued good will.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: yellowcard on April 06, 2018, 06:54:54 PM
Given the length of the trial and the amount of money that the Jacksons spent on legal costs getting the best they could afford and spending around £500K, it is strange that no one thought it was worthwhile spending a fraction on PR advice from professionals.  Instead they rushed to the press and the whole group came across as belligerent, using their anger to further profess Paddy's innocence and this fed into the protests fuelled by the social media frenzy that built up from the first day of the trial.

Obviously, PR advice now accepted by Jackson has led to the apology in an attempt to give him a base on which to appeal to IRFU and Ulster Rugby.  It will have no affect on those calling for their exclusion but only a small number of men on the IRFU panel will have the final say.

If his apology was sincere then there would be no need to spend money on PR. If its simply  a PR exercise and he has hired a PR team as you suggest then the apology is worthless.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 06, 2018, 06:59:13 PM
Given the length of the trial and the amount of money that the Jacksons spent on legal costs getting the best they could afford and spending around £500K, it is strange that no one thought it was worthwhile spending a fraction on PR advice from professionals.  Instead they rushed to the press and the whole group came across as belligerent, using their anger to further profess Paddy's innocence and this fed into the protests fuelled by the social media frenzy that built up from the first day of the trial.

Obviously, PR advice now accepted by Jackson has led to the apology in an attempt to give him a base on which to appeal to IRFU and Ulster Rugby.  It will have no affect on those calling for their exclusion but only a small number of men on the IRFU panel will have the final say.

Owen I’d wait till your name has been dragged through the gutter and still, even after it was proved to be not guilty of anything other that a WhatsApp conversation,  that’s completely private to that group before saying what you think was the best course of action ...

Syferus/Sid believes it’s ok to make fun or continue to think he’s guilty regardless of the courts, and this the guy with the strong moral compass!
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on April 06, 2018, 07:20:33 PM
Given the length of the trial and the amount of money that the Jacksons spent on legal costs getting the best they could afford and spending around £500K, it is strange that no one thought it was worthwhile spending a fraction on PR advice from professionals.  Instead they rushed to the press and the whole group came across as belligerent, using their anger to further profess Paddy's innocence and this fed into the protests fuelled by the social media frenzy that built up from the first day of the trial.

Obviously, PR advice now accepted by Jackson has led to the apology in an attempt to give him a base on which to appeal to IRFU and Ulster Rugby.  It will have no affect on those calling for their exclusion but only a small number of men on the IRFU panel will have the final say.

Owen I’d wait till your name has been dragged through the gutter and still, even after it was proved to be not guilty of anything other that a WhatsApp conversation,  that’s completely private to that group before saying what you think was the best course of action ...

Syferus/Sid believes it’s ok to make fun or continue to think he’s guilty regardless of the courts, and this the guy with the strong moral compass!

He pulled his own name through the gutter. Dry your eyes and maybe find an actual victim to get worked up about.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 06, 2018, 09:51:42 PM
Given the length of the trial and the amount of money that the Jacksons spent on legal costs getting the best they could afford and spending around £500K, it is strange that no one thought it was worthwhile spending a fraction on PR advice from professionals.  Instead they rushed to the press and the whole group came across as belligerent, using their anger to further profess Paddy's innocence and this fed into the protests fuelled by the social media frenzy that built up from the first day of the trial.

Obviously, PR advice now accepted by Jackson has led to the apology in an attempt to give him a base on which to appeal to IRFU and Ulster Rugby.  It will have no affect on those calling for their exclusion but only a small number of men on the IRFU panel will have the final say.

Owen I’d wait till your name has been dragged through the gutter and still, even after it was proved to be not guilty of anything other that a WhatsApp conversation,  that’s completely private to that group before saying what you think was the best course of action ...

Syferus/Sid believes it’s ok to make fun or continue to think he’s guilty regardless of the courts, and this the guy with the strong moral compass!

He pulled his own name through the gutter. Dry your eyes and maybe find an actual victim to get worked up about.

How’d he do that Syferus/sid?  Having sex isn’t a crime, talking about it isn’t either..
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on April 06, 2018, 10:02:52 PM
2 pages. Building momentum. #ibelieveyecangetto245
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 07, 2018, 12:26:01 AM
3 pages.. but maybe one if you half #ibelievesyferusandsidaresameperson   posts!
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on April 07, 2018, 12:46:11 AM
3 pages.. but maybe one if you half #ibelievesyferusandsidaresameperson   posts!

Are you so annoyed that you’re clearly in the minority of people who blindly support Jackson and Olding that you’ve began trying to explain it away by convincing yourself everyone is on alternate accounts? Did the hundreds of protesters throughout the country hire homeless people to fill their ranks? Did they pay off nearly every opinion piece in major publications criticising the case and rape culture in general?

You’re a cry baby. But that’s the least of your sins in all this.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 07, 2018, 01:09:50 AM
3 pages.. but maybe one if you half #ibelievesyferusandsidaresameperson   posts!

Are you so annoyed that you’re clearly in the minority of people who blindly support Jackson and Olding that you’ve began trying to explain it away by convincing yourself everyone is on alternate accounts? Did the hundreds of protesters throughout the country hire homeless people to fill their ranks? Did they pay off nearly every opinion piece in major publications criticising the case and rape culture in general?

You’re a cry baby. But that’s the least of your sins in all this.

Minority? You did math? 11 voted not guilty. That’s 100% In favour of not guilty ya Wally
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 07, 2018, 04:25:44 AM
Another avatar of Sidsyf, the many faced Hindu God of women , is Anna Nolan


https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/more-than-100-people-take-out-ad-in-newspaper-to-demand-jackson-and-olding-do-not-play-for-ulster-or-ireland-36780731.html
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 07, 2018, 08:38:29 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/paddy-jackson-s-apology-may-be-a-case-of-too-little-too-late-1.3453238?mode=amp

 Legally, Jackson was perfectly within his rights to seek to protect his name after he had been fully vindicated by the courts. But as a PR move, it was an unmitigated disaster.

In the week that has passed since the second statement, as thousands of people march in Dublin and Belfast chanting “Sue me, Paddy”, and his Ulster rugby career hangs in the balance, Jackson has apparently had a complete change of heart.

Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 07, 2018, 10:30:13 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/paddy-jackson-s-apology-may-be-a-case-of-too-little-too-late-1.3453238?mode=amp

 Legally, Jackson was perfectly within his rights to seek to protect his name after he had been fully vindicated by the courts. But as a PR move, it was an unmitigated disaster.

In the week that has passed since the second statement, as thousands of people march in Dublin and Belfast chanting “Sue me, Paddy”, and his Ulster rugby career hangs in the balance, Jackson has apparently had a complete change of heart.

Well if he was a complete Cnut he’d not apologise for something he didn’t do and move to a big paying club elsewhere, but maybe he wants to play for Ulster and Ireland and there is no reason why he shouldn’t
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 07, 2018, 10:44:23 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/paddy-jackson-s-apology-may-be-a-case-of-too-little-too-late-1.3453238?mode=amp

 Legally, Jackson was perfectly within his rights to seek to protect his name after he had been fully vindicated by the courts. But as a PR move, it was an unmitigated disaster.

In the week that has passed since the second statement, as thousands of people march in Dublin and Belfast chanting “Sue me, Paddy”, and his Ulster rugby career hangs in the balance, Jackson has apparently had a complete change of heart.

Well if he was a complete Cnut he’d not apologise for something he didn’t do and move to a big paying club elsewhere, but maybe he wants to play for Ulster and Ireland and there is no reason why he shouldn’t
Mná na  hÉireann
The verdict wasn't the end.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on April 07, 2018, 10:58:32 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/paddy-jackson-s-apology-may-be-a-case-of-too-little-too-late-1.3453238?mode=amp

 Legally, Jackson was perfectly within his rights to seek to protect his name after he had been fully vindicated by the courts. But as a PR move, it was an unmitigated disaster.

In the week that has passed since the second statement, as thousands of people march in Dublin and Belfast chanting “Sue me, Paddy”, and his Ulster rugby career hangs in the balance, Jackson has apparently had a complete change of heart.

Well if he was a complete Cnut he’d not apologise for something he didn’t do and move to a big paying club elsewhere, but maybe he wants to play for Ulster and Ireland and there is no reason why he shouldn’t

Your beloved Paddy Jackson will never play for an Irish team again as long as he lives.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: charlieTully on April 07, 2018, 11:18:34 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/paddy-jackson-s-apology-may-be-a-case-of-too-little-too-late-1.3453238?mode=amp

 Legally, Jackson was perfectly within his rights to seek to protect his name after he had been fully vindicated by the courts. But as a PR move, it was an unmitigated disaster.

In the week that has passed since the second statement, as thousands of people march in Dublin and Belfast chanting “Sue me, Paddy”, and his Ulster rugby career hangs in the balance, Jackson has apparently had a complete change of heart.

Well if he was a complete Cnut he’d not apologise for something he didn’t do and move to a big paying club elsewhere, but maybe he wants to play for Ulster and Ireland and there is no reason why he shouldn’t

Your beloved Paddy Jackson will never play for an Irish team again as long as he lives.


How do you join the internet police?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on April 07, 2018, 11:35:46 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/paddy-jackson-s-apology-may-be-a-case-of-too-little-too-late-1.3453238?mode=amp

 Legally, Jackson was perfectly within his rights to seek to protect his name after he had been fully vindicated by the courts. But as a PR move, it was an unmitigated disaster.

In the week that has passed since the second statement, as thousands of people march in Dublin and Belfast chanting “Sue me, Paddy”, and his Ulster rugby career hangs in the balance, Jackson has apparently had a complete change of heart.

Well if he was a complete Cnut he’d not apologise for something he didn’t do and move to a big paying club elsewhere, but maybe he wants to play for Ulster and Ireland and there is no reason why he shouldn’t

Your beloved Paddy Jackson will never play for an Irish team again as long as he lives.


How do you join the internet police?

If you don’t already know that you are incapable of reading the room and seeing that even if the IRFU have to buy out some portion of his contract (the morals clause should fûck him over regardless), he is never going to be putting on a shirt that represents the Irish union ever again.

If you think pissing off at least half the populace by employing a toxic figure - and someone not even close to a trasendent talent - is business that is possible you’re naive in the extreme.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Taylor on April 07, 2018, 12:38:27 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/paddy-jackson-s-apology-may-be-a-case-of-too-little-too-late-1.3453238?mode=amp

 Legally, Jackson was perfectly within his rights to seek to protect his name after he had been fully vindicated by the courts. But as a PR move, it was an unmitigated disaster.

In the week that has passed since the second statement, as thousands of people march in Dublin and Belfast chanting “Sue me, Paddy”, and his Ulster rugby career hangs in the balance, Jackson has apparently had a complete change of heart.

Well if he was a complete Cnut he’d not apologise for something he didn’t do and move to a big paying club elsewhere, but maybe he wants to play for Ulster and Ireland and there is no reason why he shouldn’t

Your beloved Paddy Jackson will never play for an Irish team again as long as he lives.


How do you join the internet police?

If you don’t already know that you are incapable of reading the room and seeing that even if the IRFU have to buy out some portion of his contract (the morals clause should fûck him over regardless), he is never going to be putting on a shirt that represents the Irish union ever again.

If you think pissing off at least half the populace by employing a toxic figure - and someone not even close to a trasendent talent - is business that is possible you’re naive in the extreme.

This is more than once you have bandied about this majority/more than half figure.

Have you a link to evidence of this or is this another of your made up stories?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 07, 2018, 12:49:14 PM
PJ was badly advised post verdict. The jury decision did not support his actions .His image needed a more subtle approach. He came out all guns blazing. Tsk tsk
Women do not respect him ( for whom FU does not mean Football Union in this case) do not respect him . He is now a liability for the IRFU. And a bit of a lauging stock.

https://youtu.be/7Wzt7ZvygnY

Imagine thousands of women marching saying "Sue me, Paddy".
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: imtommygunn on April 07, 2018, 01:14:12 PM
You didn't answer how one joins the internet police. Did you go through training or can you just assign yourself the role ;D

Playing for ulster again would cause a lot of problems for ulster rugby. I think they would lose a decent amount of their fanbase. He probably isn't quite good enough for ireland anyway.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 07, 2018, 01:21:31 PM
You didn't answer how one joins the internet police. Did you go through training or can you just assign yourself the role ;D

Playing for ulster again would cause a lot of problems for ulster rugby. I think they would lose a decent amount of their fanbase. He probably isn't quite good enough for ireland anyway.

No I’d say if you polled the Ulster rugby fans you’d find he’d be wanted by the majority but the treehugging vegans will picket outside the ground!

As for Sid/Syf he’s been wrong on soooooo many threads that even he doesn’t believe himself!
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Dougal Maguire on April 07, 2018, 02:08:14 PM
That group is being led by Allison Morris of the Irish News. The sad thing is that these people who promote liberalism and  freedom of speech and ecpression are, by virtue of their politician correctness, actually killing it. That's why there are no more good sit coms on TV any more
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: imtommygunn on April 07, 2018, 02:27:22 PM
You didn't answer how one joins the internet police. Did you go through training or can you just assign yourself the role ;D

Playing for ulster again would cause a lot of problems for ulster rugby. I think they would lose a decent amount of their fanbase. He probably isn't quite good enough for ireland anyway.

No I’d say if you polled the Ulster rugby fans you’d find he’d be wanted by the majority but the treehugging vegans will picket outside the ground!

As for Sid/Syf he’s been wrong on soooooo many threads that even he doesn’t believe himself!

Not sure i would agree on the ulster rugby thing.

The only thing for sure is whatever decision they make they will be slated for it.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 07, 2018, 02:33:40 PM
You didn't answer how one joins the internet police. Did you go through training or can you just assign yourself the role ;D

Playing for ulster again would cause a lot of problems for ulster rugby. I think they would lose a decent amount of their fanbase. He probably isn't quite good enough for ireland anyway.

No I’d say if you polled the Ulster rugby fans you’d find he’d be wanted by the majority but the treehugging vegans will picket outside the ground!

As for Sid/Syf he’s been wrong on soooooo many threads that even he doesn’t believe himself!
It depends on what the sponsors think. This is much bigger than Ulster rugby now.
 Are Kingspan comfortable with where this is going?
Social media can cause companies to pull out of arragements. Nestle pulled ads from Laura Ingraham's Fox News show after she made disparaging remarks about a gun massacre survivor. It is easy enough to put pressure on companies via the net.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebTU9HwICLA
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 07, 2018, 02:36:35 PM
Heard Morris on tv the other night! Bandwagon jumper
You didn't answer how one joins the internet police. Did you go through training or can you just assign yourself the role ;D

Playing for ulster again would cause a lot of problems for ulster rugby. I think they would lose a decent amount of their fanbase. He probably isn't quite good enough for ireland anyway.

No I’d say if you polled the Ulster rugby fans you’d find he’d be wanted by the majority but the treehugging vegans will picket outside the ground!

As for Sid/Syf he’s been wrong on soooooo many threads that even he doesn’t believe himself!

Not sure i would agree on the ulster rugby thing.

The only thing for sure is whatever decision they make they will be slated for it.

Know a lot of season ticket holders (not 20,000 of course) at Ravenhill and they’d be more than happy to have him back, considering how they have been playing (bar last nights great win) as for the mainly based women giving off, I’m not seeing it through my social media (though I’m not on twitter) it’s generally been positive from rugby people..

 though what I have noticed is plenty bandwagon jumpers who have separate agendas in my opinion and looking likes on fb!
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on April 07, 2018, 02:41:43 PM
You didn't answer how one joins the internet police. Did you go through training or can you just assign yourself the role ;D

Playing for ulster again would cause a lot of problems for ulster rugby. I think they would lose a decent amount of their fanbase. He probably isn't quite good enough for ireland anyway.

No I’d say if you polled the Ulster rugby fans you’d find he’d be wanted by the majority but the treehugging vegans will picket outside the ground!

As for Sid/Syf he’s been wrong on soooooo many threads that even he doesn’t believe himself!
It depends on what the sponsors think. This is much bigger than Ulster rugby now.
 Are Kingspan comfortable with where this is going?
Social media can cause companies to pull out of arragements. Nestle pulled ads from Laura Ingraham's Fox News show after she made disparaging remarks about a gun massacre survivor. It is easy enough to put pressure on companies via the net.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebTU9HwICLA

It’s one of the best ways to enforce direct action against big corporations. In the past the general population had no voice when big organisations made abhorrent decisions. MR2’s dearly held dreams are going to be shattered by the very same social media platforms that he detests. I love it.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 07, 2018, 02:42:43 PM
You didn't answer how one joins the internet police. Did you go through training or can you just assign yourself the role ;D

Playing for ulster again would cause a lot of problems for ulster rugby. I think they would lose a decent amount of their fanbase. He probably isn't quite good enough for ireland anyway.

No I’d say if you polled the Ulster rugby fans you’d find he’d be wanted by the majority but the treehugging vegans will picket outside the ground!

As for Sid/Syf he’s been wrong on soooooo many threads that even he doesn’t believe himself!
It depends on what the sponsors think. This is much bigger than Ulster rugby now.
 Are Kingspan comfortable with where this is going?
Social media can cause companies to pull out of arragements. Nestle pulled ads from Laura Ingraham's Fox News show after she made disparaging remarks about a gun massacre survivor. It is easy enough to put pressure on companies via the net.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebTU9HwICLA

I get that, social media gone mad..

 but not being able to play because you had sex with someone and telling someone in a private group message what happened seems harsh, no?

Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 07, 2018, 02:43:48 PM
You didn't answer how one joins the internet police. Did you go through training or can you just assign yourself the role ;D

Playing for ulster again would cause a lot of problems for ulster rugby. I think they would lose a decent amount of their fanbase. He probably isn't quite good enough for ireland anyway.

No I’d say if you polled the Ulster rugby fans you’d find he’d be wanted by the majority but the treehugging vegans will picket outside the ground!

As for Sid/Syf he’s been wrong on soooooo many threads that even he doesn’t believe himself!
It depends on what the sponsors think. This is much bigger than Ulster rugby now.
 Are Kingspan comfortable with where this is going?
Social media can cause companies to pull out of arragements. Nestle pulled ads from Laura Ingraham's Fox News show after she made disparaging remarks about a gun massacre survivor. It is easy enough to put pressure on companies via the net.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebTU9HwICLA

It’s one of the best ways to enforce direct action against big corporations. In the past the general population had no voice when big organisations made abhorrent decisions. MR2’s dearly held dreams are going to be shattered by the very same social media platforms that he detests. I love it.

How’s social media going with stopping the wars in Syria and in Gaza ?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: imtommygunn on April 07, 2018, 02:49:29 PM
I'm on twitter and my timeline doesn't say too much positive on it but I don't follow too many rugby ones.

To be honest it is hard to know. If he goes back there will be protests and i could see the family element of the crowd being hit. The die hard rugby ones maybe not as much. How the crowd is split i don't know. If he doesn't go back i could also see there being protests too!
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Owen Brannigan on April 07, 2018, 02:58:22 PM
Heard Morris on tv the other night! Bandwagon jumper
You didn't answer how one joins the internet police. Did you go through training or can you just assign yourself the role ;D

Playing for ulster again would cause a lot of problems for ulster rugby. I think they would lose a decent amount of their fanbase. He probably isn't quite good enough for ireland anyway.

No I’d say if you polled the Ulster rugby fans you’d find he’d be wanted by the majority but the treehugging vegans will picket outside the ground!

As for Sid/Syf he’s been wrong on soooooo many threads that even he doesn’t believe himself!

Not sure i would agree on the ulster rugby thing.

The only thing for sure is whatever decision they make they will be slated for it.

Know a lot of season ticket holders (not 20,000 of course) at Ravenhill and they’d be more than happy to have him back, considering how they have been playing (bar last nights great win) as for the mainly based women giving off, I’m not seeing it through my social media (though I’m not on twitter) it’s generally been positive from rugby people..

 though what I have noticed is plenty bandwagon jumpers who have separate agendas in my opinion and looking likes on fb!

You are wrong.  While desperation due to a terrible season might cause some to have Jackson back at Ulster any attempt to bring him back would leave a majority of the middle class supporters, who make up the season ticket holders with their young and teenage children, very uncomfortable but more importantly the sponsors will have the last say.  There won't be many handing back season tickets.

Regardless of the verdict finding him not guilty, Jackson is now a toxic brand to be associated with and both Ulster and IRFU will be examining every option to escape from Jackson and Olding with their contracts until June 2019.

Watch as Ulster are compensated by a move to give Joey Carberry regular game time as Sexton's World Cup understudy without losing so much game time at Leinster and playing at full back.  Schmidt will see the opportunity and IRFU will fall in behind him.  Also Ulster are in hoc to IRFU in trying to find a new coach to be approved by Schmidt and paid for by IRFU, so not in much of a position to dictate to IRFU given the weakness of their situation.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Owen Brannigan on April 07, 2018, 03:03:51 PM
Given the length of the trial and the amount of money that the Jacksons spent on legal costs getting the best they could afford and spending around £500K, it is strange that no one thought it was worthwhile spending a fraction on PR advice from professionals.  Instead they rushed to the press and the whole group came across as belligerent, using their anger to further profess Paddy's innocence and this fed into the protests fuelled by the social media frenzy that built up from the first day of the trial.

Obviously, PR advice now accepted by Jackson has led to the apology in an attempt to give him a base on which to appeal to IRFU and Ulster Rugby.  It will have no affect on those calling for their exclusion but only a small number of men on the IRFU panel will have the final say.

Owen I’d wait till your name has been dragged through the gutter and still, even after it was proved to be not guilty of anything other that a WhatsApp conversation,  that’s completely private to that group before saying what you think was the best course of action ...


Who are you to know what my experience of the media has been and to tell me what I need to have experienced before putting my opinion on this Board?  Given you record of posting on this and the other trial thread you have been more than willing to spout nonsense that mirrors Syferus and Waddell and based on no experience at all.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 07, 2018, 03:09:33 PM
You didn't answer how one joins the internet police. Did you go through training or can you just assign yourself the role ;D

Playing for ulster again would cause a lot of problems for ulster rugby. I think they would lose a decent amount of their fanbase. He probably isn't quite good enough for ireland anyway.

No I’d say if you polled the Ulster rugby fans you’d find he’d be wanted by the majority but the treehugging vegans will picket outside the ground!

As for Sid/Syf he’s been wrong on soooooo many threads that even he doesn’t believe himself!
It depends on what the sponsors think. This is much bigger than Ulster rugby now.
 Are Kingspan comfortable with where this is going?
Social media can cause companies to pull out of arragements. Nestle pulled ads from Laura Ingraham's Fox News show after she made disparaging remarks about a gun massacre survivor. It is easy enough to put pressure on companies via the net.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebTU9HwICLA

I get that, social media gone mad..

 but not being able to play because you had sex with someone and telling someone in a private group message what happened seems harsh, no?
If you had sex with someone and told someone in a private group message what happened the IRFU wouldn't usually be involved.
Social media mobs can pick off individuals easily enough. Wars are trickier.

I don't know who it was who said when you are explaining you are losing.
Even Brian Cody got to that stage.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Owen Brannigan on April 07, 2018, 03:13:06 PM
I don't know who it was who said when you are explaining you are losing.


It was said by that great political thinker of our times, Ronald Regan:

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/464895-if-you-re-explaining-you-re-losing (https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/464895-if-you-re-explaining-you-re-losing)
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 07, 2018, 03:18:30 PM
Heard Morris on tv the other night! Bandwagon jumper
You didn't answer how one joins the internet police. Did you go through training or can you just assign yourself the role ;D

Playing for ulster again would cause a lot of problems for ulster rugby. I think they would lose a decent amount of their fanbase. He probably isn't quite good enough for ireland anyway.

No I’d say if you polled the Ulster rugby fans you’d find he’d be wanted by the majority but the treehugging vegans will picket outside the ground!

As for Sid/Syf he’s been wrong on soooooo many threads that even he doesn’t believe himself!

Not sure i would agree on the ulster rugby thing.

The only thing for sure is whatever decision they make they will be slated for it.

Know a lot of season ticket holders (not 20,000 of course) at Ravenhill and they’d be more than happy to have him back, considering how they have been playing (bar last nights great win) as for the mainly based women giving off, I’m not seeing it through my social media (though I’m not on twitter) it’s generally been positive from rugby people..

 though what I have noticed is plenty bandwagon jumpers who have separate agendas in my opinion and looking likes on fb!

You are wrong.  While desperation due to a terrible season might cause some to have Jackson back at Ulster any attempt to bring him back would leave a majority of the middle class supporters, who make up the season ticket holders with their young and teenage children, very uncomfortable but more importantly the sponsors will have the last say.  There won't be many handing back season tickets.

Regardless of the verdict finding him not guilty, Jackson is now a toxic brand to be associated with and both Ulster and IRFU will be examining every option to escape from Jackson and Olding with their contracts until June 2019.

Watch as Ulster are compensated by a move to give Joey Carberry regular game time as Sexton's World Cup understudy without losing so much game time at Leinster and playing at full back.  Schmidt will see the opportunity and IRFU will fall in behind him.  Also Ulster are in hoc to IRFU in trying to find a new coach to be approved by Schmidt and paid for by IRFU, so not in much of a position to dictate to IRFU given the weakness of their situation.

I’m wrong because season ticket holders that I know (middle class ones with kids) want Paddy back? I can’t talk for all of them, I mention that.. keep your pants Owen
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on April 07, 2018, 03:24:13 PM
Heard Morris on tv the other night! Bandwagon jumper
You didn't answer how one joins the internet police. Did you go through training or can you just assign yourself the role ;D

Playing for ulster again would cause a lot of problems for ulster rugby. I think they would lose a decent amount of their fanbase. He probably isn't quite good enough for ireland anyway.

No I’d say if you polled the Ulster rugby fans you’d find he’d be wanted by the majority but the treehugging vegans will picket outside the ground!

As for Sid/Syf he’s been wrong on soooooo many threads that even he doesn’t believe himself!

Not sure i would agree on the ulster rugby thing.

The only thing for sure is whatever decision they make they will be slated for it.

Know a lot of season ticket holders (not 20,000 of course) at Ravenhill and they’d be more than happy to have him back, considering how they have been playing (bar last nights great win) as for the mainly based women giving off, I’m not seeing it through my social media (though I’m not on twitter) it’s generally been positive from rugby people..

 though what I have noticed is plenty bandwagon jumpers who have separate agendas in my opinion and looking likes on fb!

You are wrong.  While desperation due to a terrible season might cause some to have Jackson back at Ulster any attempt to bring him back would leave a majority of the middle class supporters, who make up the season ticket holders with their young and teenage children, very uncomfortable but more importantly the sponsors will have the last say.  There won't be many handing back season tickets.

Regardless of the verdict finding him not guilty, Jackson is now a toxic brand to be associated with and both Ulster and IRFU will be examining every option to escape from Jackson and Olding with their contracts until June 2019.

Watch as Ulster are compensated by a move to give Joey Carberry regular game time as Sexton's World Cup understudy without losing so much game time at Leinster and playing at full back.  Schmidt will see the opportunity and IRFU will fall in behind him.  Also Ulster are in hoc to IRFU in trying to find a new coach to be approved by Schmidt and paid for by IRFU, so not in much of a position to dictate to IRFU given the weakness of their situation.

I’m wrong because season ticket holders that I know (middle class ones with kids) want Paddy back? I can’t talk for all of them, I mention that.. keep your pants Owen

Are you actually Paddy Jackson? Because it would explain a lot.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Sweeper 123 on April 07, 2018, 03:46:25 PM
What actually do u want Paddy J to do ?

He apologised, was that not the right thing to do given the circumstances - im confused;

Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 07, 2018, 03:46:38 PM
Heard Morris on tv the other night! Bandwagon jumper
You didn't answer how one joins the internet police. Did you go through training or can you just assign yourself the role ;D

Playing for ulster again would cause a lot of problems for ulster rugby. I think they would lose a decent amount of their fanbase. He probably isn't quite good enough for ireland anyway.

No I’d say if you polled the Ulster rugby fans you’d find he’d be wanted by the majority but the treehugging vegans will picket outside the ground!

As for Sid/Syf he’s been wrong on soooooo many threads that even he doesn’t believe himself!

Not sure i would agree on the ulster rugby thing.

The only thing for sure is whatever decision they make they will be slated for it.

Know a lot of season ticket holders (not 20,000 of course) at Ravenhill and they’d be more than happy to have him back, considering how they have been playing (bar last nights great win) as for the mainly based women giving off, I’m not seeing it through my social media (though I’m not on twitter) it’s generally been positive from rugby people..

 though what I have noticed is plenty bandwagon jumpers who have separate agendas in my opinion and looking likes on fb!

You are wrong.  While desperation due to a terrible season might cause some to have Jackson back at Ulster any attempt to bring him back would leave a majority of the middle class supporters, who make up the season ticket holders with their young and teenage children, very uncomfortable but more importantly the sponsors will have the last say.  There won't be many handing back season tickets.

Regardless of the verdict finding him not guilty, Jackson is now a toxic brand to be associated with and both Ulster and IRFU will be examining every option to escape from Jackson and Olding with their contracts until June 2019.

Watch as Ulster are compensated by a move to give Joey Carberry regular game time as Sexton's World Cup understudy without losing so much game time at Leinster and playing at full back.  Schmidt will see the opportunity and IRFU will fall in behind him.  Also Ulster are in hoc to IRFU in trying to find a new coach to be approved by Schmidt and paid for by IRFU, so not in much of a position to dictate to IRFU given the weakness of their situation.

I’m wrong because season ticket holders that I know (middle class ones with kids) want Paddy back? I can’t talk for all of them, I mention that.. keep your pants Owen

Are you actually Paddy Jackson? Because it would explain a lot.

Aye,  I’m paddy Jackson ! Are you Sid?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Minder on April 07, 2018, 04:11:06 PM
That group is being led by Allison Morris of the Irish News. The sad thing is that these people who promote liberalism and  freedom of speech and ecpression are, by virtue of their politician correctness, actually killing it. That's why there are no more good sit coms on TV any more

Allison Morris is a total dose, think she uses these crusades to get a few extra gigs on the “commentating” circuit, Talkbalk and the like. She seems to be everywhere but the crib lately. Anyone that disagrees with her on Twitter is some sort of mysognistic psycho in her view.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: sid waddell on April 07, 2018, 04:19:17 PM
Heard Morris on tv the other night! Bandwagon jumper
You didn't answer how one joins the internet police. Did you go through training or can you just assign yourself the role ;D

Playing for ulster again would cause a lot of problems for ulster rugby. I think they would lose a decent amount of their fanbase. He probably isn't quite good enough for ireland anyway.

No I’d say if you polled the Ulster rugby fans you’d find he’d be wanted by the majority but the treehugging vegans will picket outside the ground!

As for Sid/Syf he’s been wrong on soooooo many threads that even he doesn’t believe himself!

Not sure i would agree on the ulster rugby thing.

The only thing for sure is whatever decision they make they will be slated for it.

Know a lot of season ticket holders (not 20,000 of course) at Ravenhill and they’d be more than happy to have him back, considering how they have been playing (bar last nights great win) as for the mainly based women giving off, I’m not seeing it through my social media (though I’m not on twitter) it’s generally been positive from rugby people..

 though what I have noticed is plenty bandwagon jumpers who have separate agendas in my opinion and looking likes on fb!

You are wrong.  While desperation due to a terrible season might cause some to have Jackson back at Ulster any attempt to bring him back would leave a majority of the middle class supporters, who make up the season ticket holders with their young and teenage children, very uncomfortable but more importantly the sponsors will have the last say.  There won't be many handing back season tickets.

Regardless of the verdict finding him not guilty, Jackson is now a toxic brand to be associated with and both Ulster and IRFU will be examining every option to escape from Jackson and Olding with their contracts until June 2019.

Watch as Ulster are compensated by a move to give Joey Carberry regular game time as Sexton's World Cup understudy without losing so much game time at Leinster and playing at full back.  Schmidt will see the opportunity and IRFU will fall in behind him.  Also Ulster are in hoc to IRFU in trying to find a new coach to be approved by Schmidt and paid for by IRFU, so not in much of a position to dictate to IRFU given the weakness of their situation.

I’m wrong because season ticket holders that I know (middle class ones with kids) want Paddy back? I can’t talk for all of them, I mention that.. keep your pants Owen

Are you actually Paddy Jackson? Because it would explain a lot.

Aye,  I’m paddy Jackson ! Are you Sid?

I must say, it's lovely and comfy living rent-free in your imagination.  ;D
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 07, 2018, 05:42:44 PM
Heard Morris on tv the other night! Bandwagon jumper
You didn't answer how one joins the internet police. Did you go through training or can you just assign yourself the role ;D

Playing for ulster again would cause a lot of problems for ulster rugby. I think they would lose a decent amount of their fanbase. He probably isn't quite good enough for ireland anyway.

No I’d say if you polled the Ulster rugby fans you’d find he’d be wanted by the majority but the treehugging vegans will picket outside the ground!

As for Sid/Syf he’s been wrong on soooooo many threads that even he doesn’t believe himself!

Not sure i would agree on the ulster rugby thing.

The only thing for sure is whatever decision they make they will be slated for it.

Know a lot of season ticket holders (not 20,000 of course) at Ravenhill and they’d be more than happy to have him back, considering how they have been playing (bar last nights great win) as for the mainly based women giving off, I’m not seeing it through my social media (though I’m not on twitter) it’s generally been positive from rugby people..

 though what I have noticed is plenty bandwagon jumpers who have separate agendas in my opinion and looking likes on fb!

You are wrong.  While desperation due to a terrible season might cause some to have Jackson back at Ulster any attempt to bring him back would leave a majority of the middle class supporters, who make up the season ticket holders with their young and teenage children, very uncomfortable but more importantly the sponsors will have the last say.  There won't be many handing back season tickets.

Regardless of the verdict finding him not guilty, Jackson is now a toxic brand to be associated with and both Ulster and IRFU will be examining every option to escape from Jackson and Olding with their contracts until June 2019.

Watch as Ulster are compensated by a move to give Joey Carberry regular game time as Sexton's World Cup understudy without losing so much game time at Leinster and playing at full back.  Schmidt will see the opportunity and IRFU will fall in behind him.  Also Ulster are in hoc to IRFU in trying to find a new coach to be approved by Schmidt and paid for by IRFU, so not in much of a position to dictate to IRFU given the weakness of their situation.

I’m wrong because season ticket holders that I know (middle class ones with kids) want Paddy back? I can’t talk for all of them, I mention that.. keep your pants Owen

Are you actually Paddy Jackson? Because it would explain a lot.

Aye,  I’m paddy Jackson ! Are you Sid?

I must say, it's lovely and comfy living rent-free in your imagination.  ;D

No probs Syf
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on April 07, 2018, 05:52:16 PM
5 pages. 240 to go. We can do this
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: whitegoodman on April 08, 2018, 10:40:50 PM
There is an online petition signed by over 1500 to get them playing again. 99% of ulster supporters I’ve spoke to want them back again.

Am near sure I seen Syferus name on the petition  8)
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: michaelg on April 08, 2018, 11:09:17 PM
There is an online petition signed by over 1500 to get them playing again. 99% of ulster supporters I’ve spoke to want them back again.

Am near sure I seen Syferus name on the petition  8)

Nearly 2000 now.

https://www.change.org/p/ulster-rugby-get-paddy-jackson-and-stuart-olding-back-playing-for-ulster-rugby?recruiter=868532502&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=share_petition.nafta_share_post_interaction.notify&utm_term=share_petition.nafta_share_post_interaction.control&utm_content=ex83%3Acontrol
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Lar Naparka on April 08, 2018, 11:39:14 PM
There is an online petition signed by over 1500 to get them playing again. 99% of ulster supporters I’ve spoke to want them back again.

Am near sure I seen Syferus name on the petition  8)

Nearly 2000 now.

https://www.change.org/p/ulster-rugby-get-paddy-jackson-and-stuart-olding-back-playing-for-ulster-rugby?recruiter=868532502&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=share_petition.nafta_share_post_interaction.notify&utm_term=share_petition.nafta_share_post_interaction.control&utm_content=ex83%3Acontrol
2,001 now!
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on April 09, 2018, 12:10:13 AM
There is an online petition signed by over 1500 to get them playing again. 99% of ulster supporters I’ve spoke to want them back again.

Am near sure I seen Syferus name on the petition  8)

Nearly 2000 now.

https://www.change.org/p/ulster-rugby-get-paddy-jackson-and-stuart-olding-back-playing-for-ulster-rugby?recruiter=868532502&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=share_petition.nafta_share_post_interaction.notify&utm_term=share_petition.nafta_share_post_interaction.control&utm_content=ex83%3Acontrol
2,001 now!

65,000 petitioned to have the opposite on the same site. Like with all things in this case one side is behind the times.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: whitegoodman on April 09, 2018, 12:44:16 AM
Can you put a link up where it says this?  I see one where 67k want a review which is currently taking place but not one of what you are suggesting ie that they shouldn’t play for ulster again
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Lar Naparka on April 09, 2018, 01:38:39 AM
Can you put a link up where it says this?  I see one where 67k want a review which is currently taking place but not one of what you are suggesting ie that they shouldn’t play for ulster again
From what I can gather from a number of newspaper articles, there is widespread concern that the PSNI decided to prosecute a case that they had little or no chance of winning.  That means that Syferus and 65,000 (alleged) other fascist, anti-democratic gobdaws should either accept the verdict of a lawfully constituted court that found Olding and Jackson innocent of all charges laid against them or they reject the concept of law and order. Not only that but the PSNI may have to answer questions about their reasons for allowing wasting over eight weeks of a lot of peoples' time as well as subjecting the complainant and the accused to an immense amount of unnecessary stress.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on April 09, 2018, 02:10:54 AM
Can you put a link up where it says this?  I see one where 67k want a review which is currently taking place but not one of what you are suggesting ie that they shouldn’t play for ulster again
From what I can gather from a number of newspaper articles, there is widespread concern that the PSNI decided to prosecute a case that they had little or no chance of winning.  That means that Syferus and 65,000 (alleged) other fascist, anti-democratic gobdaws should either accept the verdict of a lawfully constituted court that found Olding and Jackson innocent of all charges laid against them or they reject the concept of law and order. Not only that but the PSNI may have to answer questions about their reasons for allowing wasting over eight weeks of a lot of peoples' time as well as subjecting the complainant and the accused to an immense amount of unnecessary stress.

You’re starting to show yourself up. Stick to the yerrah yerrah stuff and playing handball with Enda stories and leave societal issues to those that actually have to deal with them regularly. I would say you’re divorced from reality given your position but you probably voted to keep it outlawed too..
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 09, 2018, 08:04:15 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2018/apr/09/online-support-grows-for-women-after-rugby-stars-acquittal

Activists crowdfunded an advert in the Belfast Telegraph calling for both Jackson and Olding to be dropped by Ulster and Ireland. Another #IBelieveHer rally is planned for Friday 13 April, outside the Ulster Kingspan Stadium, at their first home game since the end of the trial. The players are suspended while a review is conducted.

Anger also propelled the establishment of AASVI, based in Dublin, which will now lobby for changes to the criminal justice system and for consent education. It favours Iceland’s landmark law, passed last month, which put the onus on defendants to prove consent was given, rather than complainants having to prove it was not.

“Our arcane legal system is not fit for purpose. It is a system invented by privileged men to further privilege privileged men,” said Larkin. “It lacks compassion and understanding and it is not victim-centric. It’s not just women saying ‘we have had enough’, men are also saying it.”

The trial had such impact, she believed, “because it was every woman’s worst nightmare in one trial”. She said it included multiple defendants at a party, bile from defence lawyers during the complainant’s eight-day cross-examination, and “having your knickers passed around the court, as if a jury could tell anything by looking at them”.

Then there was the hatred for women revealed in the WhatsApp messages. “There is an element of #MeToo about it, in terms of women just standing together, raising our voices and demanding to be heard,” Larkin said. “I think it is just pretty dreadful that one woman had to go through what she did to amplify and exemplify what goes on, literally, behind closed doors. But, she is an inspiration and she has inspired many of us to speak our truth, and we will continue doing so.”
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 09, 2018, 08:40:21 AM
What a pile of shite!!!! How many times did she say privileged? I'd say Iceland would be a good place for her
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AQMP on April 09, 2018, 09:57:02 AM
Can you put a link up where it says this?  I see one where 67k want a review which is currently taking place but not one of what you are suggesting ie that they shouldn’t play for ulster again
From what I can gather from a number of newspaper articles, there is widespread concern that the PSNI decided to prosecute a case that they had little or no chance of winning.  That means that Syferus and 65,000 (alleged) other fascist, anti-democratic gobdaws should either accept the verdict of a lawfully constituted court that found Olding and Jackson innocent of all charges laid against them or they reject the concept of law and order. Not only that but the PSNI may have to answer questions about their reasons for allowing wasting over eight weeks of a lot of peoples' time as well as subjecting the complainant and the accused to an immense amount of unnecessary stress.

As far as I know, in the North, it is the Public Prosecution Service (PPS) that decides whether to take a case to trial, not the PSNI.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: NAG1 on April 09, 2018, 10:08:19 AM
Can you put a link up where it says this?  I see one where 67k want a review which is currently taking place but not one of what you are suggesting ie that they shouldn’t play for ulster again
From what I can gather from a number of newspaper articles, there is widespread concern that the PSNI decided to prosecute a case that they had little or no chance of winning.  That means that Syferus and 65,000 (alleged) other fascist, anti-democratic gobdaws should either accept the verdict of a lawfully constituted court that found Olding and Jackson innocent of all charges laid against them or they reject the concept of law and order. Not only that but the PSNI may have to answer questions about their reasons for allowing wasting over eight weeks of a lot of peoples' time as well as subjecting the complainant and the accused to an immense amount of unnecessary stress.

As far as I know, in the North, it is the Public Prosecution Service (PPS) that decides whether to take a case to trial, not the PSNI.

Exactly

Shows the lack of knowledge about the whole system when a lot of the #ibelieveher champions are complaining about PJ paying for his defence and the IP only getting 'legal aid' and vowing to raise money for her etc etc. Seriously so many people spouting about this without even a basic knowledge of the system.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 09, 2018, 10:10:32 AM
Can you put a link up where it says this?  I see one where 67k want a review which is currently taking place but not one of what you are suggesting ie that they shouldn’t play for ulster again
From what I can gather from a number of newspaper articles, there is widespread concern that the PSNI decided to prosecute a case that they had little or no chance of winning.  That means that Syferus and 65,000 (alleged) other fascist, anti-democratic gobdaws should either accept the verdict of a lawfully constituted court that found Olding and Jackson innocent of all charges laid against them or they reject the concept of law and order. Not only that but the PSNI may have to answer questions about their reasons for allowing wasting over eight weeks of a lot of peoples' time as well as subjecting the complainant and the accused to an immense amount of unnecessary stress.

As far as I know, in the North, it is the Public Prosecution Service (PPS) that decides whether to take a case to trial, not the PSNI.

I'm sure its presented to the PPS by the police who then decide, based on what early evidence that has been collected by the police, which by all accounts after the trial has been shown to be rubbish at best...

We'll never know for sure what happened that night unfortunately, but the cops could have done better either to present a better set of evidence or explain to the girl/parents that there would be anything close to a conviction available based on what she said during the interviews of her and the rugby lads...

Either way it was a fcuk up and has now a new term is floating around call "rape culture" such a buzz word now its trending
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AQMP on April 09, 2018, 10:23:38 AM
Can you put a link up where it says this?  I see one where 67k want a review which is currently taking place but not one of what you are suggesting ie that they shouldn’t play for ulster again
From what I can gather from a number of newspaper articles, there is widespread concern that the PSNI decided to prosecute a case that they had little or no chance of winning.  That means that Syferus and 65,000 (alleged) other fascist, anti-democratic gobdaws should either accept the verdict of a lawfully constituted court that found Olding and Jackson innocent of all charges laid against them or they reject the concept of law and order. Not only that but the PSNI may have to answer questions about their reasons for allowing wasting over eight weeks of a lot of peoples' time as well as subjecting the complainant and the accused to an immense amount of unnecessary stress.

As far as I know, in the North, it is the Public Prosecution Service (PPS) that decides whether to take a case to trial, not the PSNI.

I'm sure its presented to the PPS by the police who then decide, based on what early evidence that has been collected by the police, which by all accounts after the trial has been shown to be rubbish at best...

We'll never know for sure what happened that night unfortunately, but the cops could have done better either to present a better set of evidence or explain to the girl/parents that there would be anything close to a conviction available based on what she said during the interviews of her and the rugby lads...

Either way it was a fcuk up and has now a new term is floating around call "rape culture" such a buzz word now its trending

From the PPS website:

"Prosecutions are initiated or continued where it is satisfied that the Test for Prosecution is met. The key principles applied in the Test for Prosecution are as follows:

Whether the evidence which can be adduced in court is sufficient to provide a reasonable prospect of conviction - 'the Evidential Test'; and

Whether a prosecution is required in the Public Interest - 'the Public Interest Test'.

Each of these stages must be separately considered but a decision as to whether or not a prosecution is in the public interest can only arise when the evidential test has been satisfied."


Depends what they mean by "reasonable prospect of a conviction".  Is that 51/49 or something higher?  Maybe DMK or bcb1 could shed some light.  What we can infer is that once the decision was made to take this case to court the girl/her parents would know that the PPS, at least, thought there was a "reasonable prospect" of them being convicted.

Also I remember last autumn that their solicitors challenged the strength of the evidence against them and this was reviewed by the court.  I think this led to the vaginal rape charge against Olding being dropped but the other charges stood. 
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 09, 2018, 03:57:55 PM
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/rape-trials-should-use-prerecorded-crossexaminations-says-new-report-36787586.html

Caroline Counihan, RCNI’s legal director, said pre-recording such evidence would reduce the risk of secondary trauma to the victim.

She said advances in technology had improved the possibility of pre-recorded statements and cross-examination being used in a criminal trial.

“Our criminal justice system is based on the premise that face-to-face live evidence at trial is the best evidence which can be obtained.

“Modern psychological research does not support this conclusion, particularly since the advent of high-resolution pre-recorded video and video-link solutions,” Ms Counihan said.

“Pre-recording a Garda statement soon after a complaint has been made maximises the potential of the witness to recall, fully and accurately, what happened, to give his or her best evidence and to help minimise the risk of secondary traumatisation by reducing exposure to the adversarial criminal justice process itself.

“In our view, it is time that the limitations of the live evidence only approach – often months or years after the alleged crime took place – were addressed.”

Cliona Saidlear, director of RCNI, said the recent Belfast rape trial highlighted how difficult the criminal justice system can be on witnesses.

“We know that we can make it better and that vulnerable witnesses can have a less traumatising experience in giving vital evidence,” she said.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Lar Naparka on April 09, 2018, 04:00:15 PM
Can you put a link up where it says this?  I see one where 67k want a review which is currently taking place but not one of what you are suggesting ie that they shouldn’t play for ulster again
From what I can gather from a number of newspaper articles, there is widespread concern that the PSNI decided to prosecute a case that they had little or no chance of winning.  That means that Syferus and 65,000 (alleged) other fascist, anti-democratic gobdaws should either accept the verdict of a lawfully constituted court that found Olding and Jackson innocent of all charges laid against them or they reject the concept of law and order. Not only that but the PSNI may have to answer questions about their reasons for allowing wasting over eight weeks of a lot of peoples' time as well as subjecting the complainant and the accused to an immense amount of unnecessary stress.

You’re starting to show yourself up. Stick to the yerrah yerrah stuff and playing handball with Enda stories and leave societal issues to those that actually have to deal with them regularly. I would say you’re divorced from reality given your position but you probably voted to keep it outlawed too..
Now, now Syf, stop throwing yer rattle outa yer pram. :D :D
I like to think that I am a democrat and will accept the law of the land in any country where the will of the people is observed.
I believe that the judgement handed down in the recent case was based on a decision, freely made, buy 11 responsible peers of the accused. I also think the presiding judge delivered her directions to said jury in a fair-minded and very comprehensive way. Nothing was left to chance.
At the end of the proceedings, the jury retired to consider the evidence presented to them and returned in a very short period of time with a clear cut verdict.
Had the verdict gone the other way and if any or all of the defendants were found guilty as charged, then I would accept that verdict also. It seems the jury regarded Dora Florence to be a more credible witness than the complainant. There may have been other relevant factors involved but, for me, this is the crucial one.
Mob law is what you are advocating here and it sucks...
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Sweeper 123 on April 09, 2018, 04:06:23 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-43700563

see momentum to get them reinstated to Ulster Rugby - what you think about these 40000 people Syf
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AQMP on April 09, 2018, 04:11:03 PM
The application by various media outlets to lift the reporting restrictions on the trial will now be heard on Wednesday.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: magpie seanie on April 09, 2018, 04:16:52 PM
More pointless rubbish.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Denn Forever on April 09, 2018, 04:19:27 PM
The application by various media outlets to lift the reporting restrictions on the trial will now be heard on Wednesday.

Is the woman not entitled to anonominity?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 09, 2018, 04:21:13 PM
The application by various media outlets to lift the reporting restrictions on the trial will now be heard on Wednesday.

Is the woman not entitled to anonominity?

She will continue with anonominity
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: sid waddell on April 09, 2018, 05:15:10 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-43700563

see momentum to get them reinstated to Ulster Rugby - what you think about these 40000 people Syf

What "40000"? 

Your link says "5,500".;D

Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: sid waddell on April 09, 2018, 05:18:30 PM
Can you put a link up where it says this?  I see one where 67k want a review which is currently taking place but not one of what you are suggesting ie that they shouldn’t play for ulster again
From what I can gather from a number of newspaper articles, there is widespread concern that the PSNI decided to prosecute a case that they had little or no chance of winning.  That means that Syferus and 65,000 (alleged) other fascist, anti-democratic gobdaws should either accept the verdict of a lawfully constituted court that found Olding and Jackson innocent of all charges laid against them or they reject the concept of law and order. Not only that but the PSNI may have to answer questions about their reasons for allowing wasting over eight weeks of a lot of peoples' time as well as subjecting the complainant and the accused to an immense amount of unnecessary stress.

As far as I know, in the North, it is the Public Prosecution Service (PPS) that decides whether to take a case to trial, not the PSNI.

Exactly

Shows the lack of knowledge about the whole system when a lot of the #ibelieveher champions are complaining about PJ paying for his defence and the IP only getting 'legal aid' and vowing to raise money for her etc etc. Seriously so many people spouting about this without even a basic knowledge of the system.

Where on earth do you even start with the stupidity on show in the above messages?  ;D

Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: yellowcard on April 09, 2018, 05:27:02 PM
Do we even know if Jackson/Olding wish to remain at Ulster. Some time away might do them good and they could probably earn more playing abroad. I think there is no chance of either representing Ireland again anyway so it shouldn't effect them internationally.   
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on April 09, 2018, 05:41:26 PM
Can you put a link up where it says this?  I see one where 67k want a review which is currently taking place but not one of what you are suggesting ie that they shouldn’t play for ulster again
From what I can gather from a number of newspaper articles, there is widespread concern that the PSNI decided to prosecute a case that they had little or no chance of winning.  That means that Syferus and 65,000 (alleged) other fascist, anti-democratic gobdaws should either accept the verdict of a lawfully constituted court that found Olding and Jackson innocent of all charges laid against them or they reject the concept of law and order. Not only that but the PSNI may have to answer questions about their reasons for allowing wasting over eight weeks of a lot of peoples' time as well as subjecting the complainant and the accused to an immense amount of unnecessary stress.

You’re starting to show yourself up. Stick to the yerrah yerrah stuff and playing handball with Enda stories and leave societal issues to those that actually have to deal with them regularly. I would say you’re divorced from reality given your position but you probably voted to keep it outlawed too..
Now, now Syf, stop throwing yer rattle outa yer pram. :D :D
I like to think that I am a democrat and will accept the law of the land in any country where the will of the people is observed.
I believe that the judgement handed down in the recent case was based on a decision, freely made, buy 11 responsible peers of the accused. I also think the presiding judge delivered her directions to said jury in a fair-minded and very comprehensive way. Nothing was left to chance.
At the end of the proceedings, the jury retired to consider the evidence presented to them and returned in a very short period of time with a clear cut verdict.
Had the verdict gone the other way and if any or all of the defendants were found guilty as charged, then I would accept that verdict also. It seems the jury regarded Dora Florence to be a more credible witness than the complainant. There may have been other relevant factors involved but, for me, this is the crucial one.
Mob law is what you are advocating here and it sucks...

The decision is not the problem. The system that supports it is.

If you think rape is well policed and prosecuted you are, to be frank, wrong.

People have no responsibility to give any undue respect to a system they see as broken, and you and others would do well to remember that before you throw stones at those brave enough to try to effect some manner of change.

In fact, a responsibility to seek a more fair society is much more fundamental to the ideals of justice and a better country for all people than blindly deferring to a judicial system and ignoring the issues that it has raised.

To paraphrase the US constitution, the goal of any society should be to establish a more perfect union than that which one inherits. Anything less is failure.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Tony Baloney on April 09, 2018, 05:48:10 PM
Can you put a link up where it says this?  I see one where 67k want a review which is currently taking place but not one of what you are suggesting ie that they shouldn’t play for ulster again
From what I can gather from a number of newspaper articles, there is widespread concern that the PSNI decided to prosecute a case that they had little or no chance of winning.  That means that Syferus and 65,000 (alleged) other fascist, anti-democratic gobdaws should either accept the verdict of a lawfully constituted court that found Olding and Jackson innocent of all charges laid against them or they reject the concept of law and order. Not only that but the PSNI may have to answer questions about their reasons for allowing wasting over eight weeks of a lot of peoples' time as well as subjecting the complainant and the accused to an immense amount of unnecessary stress.

You’re starting to show yourself up. Stick to the yerrah yerrah stuff and playing handball with Enda stories and leave societal issues to those that actually have to deal with them regularly. I would say you’re divorced from reality given your position but you probably voted to keep it outlawed too..
Now, now Syf, stop throwing yer rattle outa yer pram. :D :D
I like to think that I am a democrat and will accept the law of the land in any country where the will of the people is observed.
I believe that the judgement handed down in the recent case was based on a decision, freely made, buy 11 responsible peers of the accused. I also think the presiding judge delivered her directions to said jury in a fair-minded and very comprehensive way. Nothing was left to chance.
At the end of the proceedings, the jury retired to consider the evidence presented to them and returned in a very short period of time with a clear cut verdict.
Had the verdict gone the other way and if any or all of the defendants were found guilty as charged, then I would accept that verdict also. It seems the jury regarded Dora Florence to be a more credible witness than the complainant. There may have been other relevant factors involved but, for me, this is the crucial one.
Mob law is what you are advocating here and it sucks...

The decision is not the problem. The system that supports it is.

If you think rape is well policed and prosecuted you are, to be frank, wrong.

People have no responsibility to give any undue respect to a system they see as broken, and you and others would do well to remember that before you throw stones at those brave enough to try to effect some manner of change.

In fact, a responsibility to seek a more fairness society is much more fundamental to the ideals of justice and a better country for all people than blindly deferring to a judicial system and ignoring the issues that it has raised.
Woah there. I think you'll find yourself on record (repeatedly!) having a problem with the decision and on many occasions before there even was a decision.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on April 09, 2018, 05:55:23 PM
Can you put a link up where it says this?  I see one where 67k want a review which is currently taking place but not one of what you are suggesting ie that they shouldn’t play for ulster again
From what I can gather from a number of newspaper articles, there is widespread concern that the PSNI decided to prosecute a case that they had little or no chance of winning.  That means that Syferus and 65,000 (alleged) other fascist, anti-democratic gobdaws should either accept the verdict of a lawfully constituted court that found Olding and Jackson innocent of all charges laid against them or they reject the concept of law and order. Not only that but the PSNI may have to answer questions about their reasons for allowing wasting over eight weeks of a lot of peoples' time as well as subjecting the complainant and the accused to an immense amount of unnecessary stress.

You’re starting to show yourself up. Stick to the yerrah yerrah stuff and playing handball with Enda stories and leave societal issues to those that actually have to deal with them regularly. I would say you’re divorced from reality given your position but you probably voted to keep it outlawed too..
Now, now Syf, stop throwing yer rattle outa yer pram. :D :D
I like to think that I am a democrat and will accept the law of the land in any country where the will of the people is observed.
I believe that the judgement handed down in the recent case was based on a decision, freely made, buy 11 responsible peers of the accused. I also think the presiding judge delivered her directions to said jury in a fair-minded and very comprehensive way. Nothing was left to chance.
At the end of the proceedings, the jury retired to consider the evidence presented to them and returned in a very short period of time with a clear cut verdict.
Had the verdict gone the other way and if any or all of the defendants were found guilty as charged, then I would accept that verdict also. It seems the jury regarded Dora Florence to be a more credible witness than the complainant. There may have been other relevant factors involved but, for me, this is the crucial one.
Mob law is what you are advocating here and it sucks...

The decision is not the problem. The system that supports it is.

If you think rape is well policed and prosecuted you are, to be frank, wrong.

People have no responsibility to give any undue respect to a system they see as broken, and you and others would do well to remember that before you throw stones at those brave enough to try to effect some manner of change.

In fact, a responsibility to seek a more fairness society is much more fundamental to the ideals of justice and a better country for all people than blindly deferring to a judicial system and ignoring the issues that it has raised.
Woah there. I think you'll find yourself on record (repeatedly!) having a problem with the decision and on many occasions before there even was a decision.

Go back to the first post I made after the verdict. The system is the villain, not the 11 people who would probably rather not have been there who had to follow very leading directions from the judge, who herself was simply applying the laws of the very same system than allows the vast majority of rapes to go unpunished. It wasn’t even the fault of the well-paid defence team that paraded a likely rape victim’s underwear around a courtroom and kept her on the stand for six straight days.

The system. It all starts with the structure and not the players. And that structure was created in a society that has taken too light a hand to rape for centuries.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 09, 2018, 06:34:20 PM
But these lads were not convicted of rape or anything else’s for that matter.

How’s the system in the south? Are people presumed guilty first and have to prove their innocence ?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Hound on April 09, 2018, 06:45:28 PM
But these lads were not convicted of rape or anything else’s for that matter.

How’s the system in the south? Are people presumed guilty first and have to prove their innocence ?
I think in Syf's idyllic system, the word of the complainant in a rape trial is taken as gospel, and should not be questioned.

Although he has yet to respond to how his system would work in this case, when the complainant has already provided a false rape allegation, that had to be subsequently changed to another charge when she changed her story.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on April 09, 2018, 09:50:42 PM
But these lads were not convicted of rape or anything else’s for that matter.

How’s the system in the south? Are people presumed guilty first and have to prove their innocence ?
I think in Syf's idyllic system, the word of the complainant in a rape trial is taken as gospel, and should not be questioned.

Although he has yet to respond to how his system would work in this case, when the complainant has already provided a false rape allegation, that had to be subsequently changed to another charge when she changed her story.

Just because you two have a suspicious lack of imagination when it comes to addressing the obvious flaws in the system it doesn’t mean the rest of us do - https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/rape-trials-should-use-prerecorded-crossexaminations-says-new-report-36787586.html

Why people like you keep trying to fixate on the verdict is obvious - you don’t really give a damn about the plight of rape victims, because there is little argument than can be made for the current system and its prosecution rates.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 09, 2018, 10:08:26 PM
But these lads were not convicted of rape or anything else’s for that matter.

How’s the system in the south? Are people presumed guilty first and have to prove their innocence ?
I think in Syf's idyllic system, the word of the complainant in a rape trial is taken as gospel, and should not be questioned.

Although he has yet to respond to how his system would work in this case, when the complainant has already provided a false rape allegation, that had to be subsequently changed to another charge when she changed her story.

Just because you two have a suspicious lack of imagination when it comes to addressing the obvious flaws in the system it doesn’t mean the rest of us do - https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/rape-trials-should-use-prerecorded-crossexaminations-says-new-report-36787586.html

Why people like you keep trying to fixate on the verdict is obvious - you don’t really give a damn about the plight of rape victims, because there is little argument than can be made for the current system and its prosecution rates.

So in this case Syferus, who was the victim?

If someone is raped then you’ll get everyone behind them, but if they weren’t raped what do you do?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on April 09, 2018, 10:11:32 PM
But these lads were not convicted of rape or anything else’s for that matter.

How’s the system in the south? Are people presumed guilty first and have to prove their innocence ?
I think in Syf's idyllic system, the word of the complainant in a rape trial is taken as gospel, and should not be questioned.

Although he has yet to respond to how his system would work in this case, when the complainant has already provided a false rape allegation, that had to be subsequently changed to another charge when she changed her story.

Just because you two have a suspicious lack of imagination when it comes to addressing the obvious flaws in the system it doesn’t mean the rest of us do - https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/rape-trials-should-use-prerecorded-crossexaminations-says-new-report-36787586.html

Why people like you keep trying to fixate on the verdict is obvious - you don’t really give a damn about the plight of rape victims, because there is little argument than can be made for the current system and its prosecution rates.

So in this case Syferus, who was the victim?

If someone is raped then you’ll get everyone behind them, but if they weren’t raped what do you do?

Why do you keep setting up straw men in the vain hope that they will resemble a good point?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Lar Naparka on April 09, 2018, 10:17:12 PM
Can you put a link up where it says this?  I see one where 67k want a review which is currently taking place but not one of what you are suggesting ie that they shouldn’t play for ulster again
From what I can gather from a number of newspaper articles, there is widespread concern that the PSNI decided to prosecute a case that they had little or no chance of winning.  That means that Syferus and 65,000 (alleged) other fascist, anti-democratic gobdaws should either accept the verdict of a lawfully constituted court that found Olding and Jackson innocent of all charges laid against them or they reject the concept of law and order. Not only that but the PSNI may have to answer questions about their reasons for allowing wasting over eight weeks of a lot of peoples' time as well as subjecting the complainant and the accused to an immense amount of unnecessary stress.

As far as I know, in the North, it is the Public Prosecution Service (PPS) that decides whether to take a case to trial, not the PSNI.
As far as I know, that is the case. But same as the gardai in the south presenting a file to the DPP, the decision to proceed to trial or not will be influenced by the PSNI's findings. 
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: moysider on April 09, 2018, 11:45:23 PM
Can you put a link up where it says this?  I see one where 67k want a review which is currently taking place but not one of what you are suggesting ie that they shouldn’t play for ulster again
From what I can gather from a number of newspaper articles, there is widespread concern that the PSNI decided to prosecute a case that they had little or no chance of winning.  That means that Syferus and 65,000 (alleged) other fascist, anti-democratic gobdaws should either accept the verdict of a lawfully constituted court that found Olding and Jackson innocent of all charges laid against them or they reject the concept of law and order. Not only that but the PSNI may have to answer questions about their reasons for allowing wasting over eight weeks of a lot of peoples' time as well as subjecting the complainant and the accused to an immense amount of unnecessary stress.

As far as I know, in the North, it is the Public Prosecution Service (PPS) that decides whether to take a case to trial, not the PSNI.
As far as I know, that is the case. But same as the gardai in the south presenting a file to the DPP, the decision to proceed to trial or not will be influenced by the PSNI's findings.

So what to do Lar if a girl claims she has been raped? Do the police tell her to go dry her eyes?  Because unless she has been beaten back and blue or raped at knife-point, she is wasting her time. That much is clear now.
 Most rapes are not reported we are told. We can understand why that is so too. I heard on radio today that only 1% of rapists end up being convicted. Are all these girls making shit up? I doubt it.
 Some people here treating a verdict of not guilty as infallible. It is just a result of a process. It might not be the correct result, but may only be the only possible result in the circumstances. Oscar Pistorius beat a murder charge. R Kelly got off on a paedophilia charge - not enough evidence, victim would not testify ( I wonder why?). Even Al Capone was acquitted at least once before they got him with a cooking the books charge.
 Paddy Jackson got himself a good result out of this. Expecting his old career back is a laugh though. The girl got justice the way it works. I don't think she would have been surprised by the result either. The dice was loaded against her from the start. Nothing to do with privilege either. I'd say the only one in court not from a privileged background was the Taxi-driver!
 
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Lar Naparka on April 10, 2018, 01:37:05 AM
Can you put a link up where it says this?  I see one where 67k want a review which is currently taking place but not one of what you are suggesting ie that they shouldn’t play for ulster again
From what I can gather from a number of newspaper articles, there is widespread concern that the PSNI decided to prosecute a case that they had little or no chance of winning.  That means that Syferus and 65,000 (alleged) other fascist, anti-democratic gobdaws should either accept the verdict of a lawfully constituted court that found Olding and Jackson innocent of all charges laid against them or they reject the concept of law and order. Not only that but the PSNI may have to answer questions about their reasons for allowing wasting over eight weeks of a lot of peoples' time as well as subjecting the complainant and the accused to an immense amount of unnecessary stress.

As far as I know, in the North, it is the Public Prosecution Service (PPS) that decides whether to take a case to trial, not the PSNI.
As far as I know, that is the case. But same as the gardai in the south presenting a file to the DPP, the decision to proceed to trial or not will be influenced by the PSNI's findings.

So what to do Lar if a girl claims she has been raped? Do the police tell her to go dry her eyes?  Because unless she has been beaten back and blue or raped at knife-point, she is wasting her time. That much is clear now.
 Most rapes are not reported we are told. We can understand why that is so too. I heard on radio today that only 1% of rapists end up being convicted. Are all these girls making shit up? I doubt it.
 Some people here treating a verdict of not guilty as infallible. It is just a result of a process. It might not be the correct result, but may only be the only possible result in the circumstances. Oscar Pistorius beat a murder charge. R Kelly got off on a paedophilia charge - not enough evidence, victim would not testify ( I wonder why?). Even Al Capone was acquitted at least once before they got him with a cooking the books charge.
 Paddy Jackson got himself a good result out of this. Expecting his old career back is a laugh though. The girl got justice the way it works. I don't think she would have been surprised by the result either. The dice was loaded against her from the start. Nothing to do with privilege either. I'd say the only one in court not from a privileged background was the Taxi-driver!
I can accept what you are saying moy but what has that to do with my innocuous statement you are quoting?
The gardai in investigating an incident down here will prepare a file to send to the DPP, where a decision will be taken to press charges or not and I believe the same applies in the North where the PSNI passes the result of their investigations on to the PPS.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: haranguerer on April 10, 2018, 08:15:03 AM

So what to do Lar if a girl claims she has been raped? Do the police tell her to go dry her eyes?  Because unless she has been beaten back and blue or raped at knife-point, she is wasting her time. That much is clear now.


How is that clear?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 10, 2018, 08:54:20 AM
Al Capone died of syphilis.  PJ has the reputational equivalent of it. I wonder how the verdict might have looked under the Icelandic system.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Hound on April 10, 2018, 08:55:00 AM
Can you put a link up where it says this?  I see one where 67k want a review which is currently taking place but not one of what you are suggesting ie that they shouldn’t play for ulster again
From what I can gather from a number of newspaper articles, there is widespread concern that the PSNI decided to prosecute a case that they had little or no chance of winning.  That means that Syferus and 65,000 (alleged) other fascist, anti-democratic gobdaws should either accept the verdict of a lawfully constituted court that found Olding and Jackson innocent of all charges laid against them or they reject the concept of law and order. Not only that but the PSNI may have to answer questions about their reasons for allowing wasting over eight weeks of a lot of peoples' time as well as subjecting the complainant and the accused to an immense amount of unnecessary stress.

As far as I know, in the North, it is the Public Prosecution Service (PPS) that decides whether to take a case to trial, not the PSNI.
As far as I know, that is the case. But same as the gardai in the south presenting a file to the DPP, the decision to proceed to trial or not will be influenced by the PSNI's findings.

So what to do Lar if a girl claims she has been raped? Do the police tell her to go dry her eyes?  Because unless she has been beaten back and blue or raped at knife-point, she is wasting her time. That much is clear now.
 Most rapes are not reported we are told. We can understand why that is so too. I heard on radio today that only 1% of rapists end up being convicted. Are all these girls making shit up? I doubt it.
 Some people here treating a verdict of not guilty as infallible. It is just a result of a process. It might not be the correct result, but may only be the only possible result in the circumstances. Oscar Pistorius beat a murder charge. R Kelly got off on a paedophilia charge - not enough evidence, victim would not testify ( I wonder why?). Even Al Capone was acquitted at least once before they got him with a cooking the books charge.
 Paddy Jackson got himself a good result out of this. Expecting his old career back is a laugh though. The girl got justice the way it works. I don't think she would have been surprised by the result either. The dice was loaded against her from the start. Nothing to do with privilege either. I'd say the only one in court not from a privileged background was the Taxi-driver!
So, you're comparing Jackson to Al Capone, Pistorious and Kelly when the only significant evidence against Jackson was the word of a woman who had already falsely accused someone of rape (i.e. she accused Olding of vaginal rape initially, then changed her story)?

Do you think the judge was wrong when she said to the jurors not to rely on the evidence of the complainant if they thought she lied about Olding?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: JimStynes on April 10, 2018, 09:00:49 AM
How do you lads be bothered?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 10, 2018, 09:01:22 AM
Al Capone died of syphilis.  PJ has the reputational equivalent of it. I wonder how the verdict might have looked under the Icelandic system.

Or the Judge Dredd system?

If your granny had balls she'd be your granda!
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on April 10, 2018, 09:20:36 AM
How do you lads be bothered?

This.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: yellowcard on April 10, 2018, 10:38:56 AM
https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ulster-rugby/official-ulster-supporters-club-warns-ticket-sales-may-fall-if-paddy-jackson-and-stuart-olding-are-not-reinstated-36792360.html
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on April 10, 2018, 10:42:19 AM
https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ulster-rugby/official-ulster-supporters-club-warns-ticket-sales-may-fall-if-paddy-jackson-and-stuart-olding-are-not-reinstated-36792360.html

The official supporters club clearly representing the most toxic and blinkered elements of rugby supporters. Tone deaf stuff.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: yellowcard on April 10, 2018, 10:50:25 AM
This would indicate to me that both players are seeking to get back playing for Ulster and have no intention to move to another club. I think that Ulster rugby and the IRFU would prefer not to have to make this decision but there will likely be another fall out whatever the decision is since the players seem intent on staying put.   
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 10, 2018, 10:50:50 AM
https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ulster-rugby/official-ulster-supporters-club-warns-ticket-sales-may-fall-if-paddy-jackson-and-stuart-olding-are-not-reinstated-36792360.html
Ulster are in an impossible position.
If they don't reinstate the top shaggers some fans will stay at home.
If they do Mna na hEireann will picket the stadium

What would Jesus do? 
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on April 10, 2018, 10:53:11 AM
This would indicate to me that both players are seeking to get back playing for Ulster and have no intention to move to another club. I think that Ulster rugby and the IRFU would prefer not to have to make this decision but there will likely be another fall out whatever the decision is since the players seem intent on staying put.

I think you are giving too much weight to how many fûcks the IRFU give. They will get rid of them even if they have to pay them something to void the last year of their contracts. They are not coming back. It is as simple as that and some would do well to remember that.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 10, 2018, 10:58:26 AM
https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ulster-rugby/official-ulster-supporters-club-warns-ticket-sales-may-fall-if-paddy-jackson-and-stuart-olding-are-not-reinstated-36792360.html

From the same link

Elsewhere, in a poll for RTÉ’s 'Claire Byrne Live' last night, 55pc of respondents said they didn't want to see Jackson and Olding back playing for Ireland, 26pc said they did, while 19pc said they didn't know.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 10, 2018, 11:01:29 AM
This would indicate to me that both players are seeking to get back playing for Ulster and have no intention to move to another club. I think that Ulster rugby and the IRFU would prefer not to have to make this decision but there will likely be another fall out whatever the decision is since the players seem intent on staying put.

I think you are giving too much weight to how many fûcks the IRFU give. They will get rid of them even if they have to pay them something to void the last year of their contracts. They are not coming back. It is as simple as that and some would do well to remember that.

And you're great at predicting things! The boards Mystic Meg
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on April 10, 2018, 11:11:12 AM
This would indicate to me that both players are seeking to get back playing for Ulster and have no intention to move to another club. I think that Ulster rugby and the IRFU would prefer not to have to make this decision but there will likely be another fall out whatever the decision is since the players seem intent on staying put.

I think you are giving too much weight to how many fûcks the IRFU give. They will get rid of them even if they have to pay them something to void the last year of their contracts. They are not coming back. It is as simple as that and some would do well to remember that.

And you're great at predicting things! The boards Mystic Meg

I did predict the verdict and the course of the entire trial from square one so you really whiffed on that response, just like your last as it happens.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Dinny Breen on April 10, 2018, 11:11:33 AM
This would indicate to me that both players are seeking to get back playing for Ulster and have no intention to move to another club. I think that Ulster rugby and the IRFU would prefer not to have to make this decision but there will likely be another fall out whatever the decision is since the players seem intent on staying put.

I think you are giving too much weight to how many fûcks the IRFU give. They will get rid of them even if they have to pay them something to void the last year of their contracts. They are not coming back. It is as simple as that and some would do well to remember that.

This.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: trueblue1234 on April 10, 2018, 11:19:43 AM
This would indicate to me that both players are seeking to get back playing for Ulster and have no intention to move to another club. I think that Ulster rugby and the IRFU would prefer not to have to make this decision but there will likely be another fall out whatever the decision is since the players seem intent on staying put.

I think you are giving too much weight to how many fûcks the IRFU give. They will get rid of them even if they have to pay them something to void the last year of their contracts. They are not coming back. It is as simple as that and some would do well to remember that.

And you're great at predicting things! The boards Mystic Meg

I did predict the verdict and the course of the entire trial from square one so you really whiffed on that response, just like your last as it happens.

 :-\

Holy f**k this is looking very very bad for the two lads. . . If proven guilty they shouldn't be playing for Ulster or Ireland again!!

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/it-was-like-a-merrygoround-at-a-carnival-ireland-rugby-stars-accused-of-rape-boasted-about-sex-on-whatsapp-36547048.html?utm_content=bufferf14da&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Those defending them last year will be very quiet today. All the high-priced lawyers in the world won't save these scumbags.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: yellowcard on April 10, 2018, 11:28:16 AM
This would indicate to me that both players are seeking to get back playing for Ulster and have no intention to move to another club. I think that Ulster rugby and the IRFU would prefer not to have to make this decision but there will likely be another fall out whatever the decision is since the players seem intent on staying put.

I think you are giving too much weight to how many fûcks the IRFU give. They will get rid of them even if they have to pay them something to void the last year of their contracts. They are not coming back. It is as simple as that and some would do well to remember that.

They may well want to get rid of them but it is only be because of the public reaction and the possible threat of lost sponsorship not because of any great genuine concern over their off field antics or private phone messages. Other players are widely known to have engaged in misdemeanours without any repercussions. If they release them they will have set a precedent for future.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 10, 2018, 11:29:41 AM
This would indicate to me that both players are seeking to get back playing for Ulster and have no intention to move to another club. I think that Ulster rugby and the IRFU would prefer not to have to make this decision but there will likely be another fall out whatever the decision is since the players seem intent on staying put.

I think you are giving too much weight to how many fûcks the IRFU give. They will get rid of them even if they have to pay them something to void the last year of their contracts. They are not coming back. It is as simple as that and some would do well to remember that.

And you're great at predicting things! The boards Mystic Meg

I did predict the verdict and the course of the entire trial from square one so you really whiffed on that response, just like your last as it happens.

Yes as did everyone at the court case did, as there was no case to answer for
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: TabClear on April 10, 2018, 11:41:20 AM
This would indicate to me that both players are seeking to get back playing for Ulster and have no intention to move to another club. I think that Ulster rugby and the IRFU would prefer not to have to make this decision but there will likely be another fall out whatever the decision is since the players seem intent on staying put.

I think you are giving too much weight to how many fûcks the IRFU give. They will get rid of them even if they have to pay them something to void the last year of their contracts. They are not coming back. It is as simple as that and some would do well to remember that.

And you're great at predicting things! The boards Mystic Meg

I did predict the verdict and the course of the entire trial from square one so you really whiffed on that response, just like your last as it happens.

 :-\

Holy f**k this is looking very very bad for the two lads. . . If proven guilty they shouldn't be playing for Ulster or Ireland again!!

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/it-was-like-a-merrygoround-at-a-carnival-ireland-rugby-stars-accused-of-rape-boasted-about-sex-on-whatsapp-36547048.html?utm_content=bufferf14da&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Those defending them last year will be very quiet today. All the high-priced lawyers in the world won't save these scumbags.

Brilliant! 
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Asal Mor on April 10, 2018, 11:42:20 AM
This would indicate to me that both players are seeking to get back playing for Ulster and have no intention to move to another club. I think that Ulster rugby and the IRFU would prefer not to have to make this decision but there will likely be another fall out whatever the decision is since the players seem intent on staying put.

I think you are giving too much weight to how many fûcks the IRFU give. They will get rid of them even if they have to pay them something to void the last year of their contracts. They are not coming back. It is as simple as that and some would do well to remember that.

And you're great at predicting things! The boards Mystic Meg

I did predict the verdict and the course of the entire trial from square one so you really whiffed on that response, just like your last as it happens.

 :-\

Holy f**k this is looking very very bad for the two lads. . . If proven guilty they shouldn't be playing for Ulster or Ireland again!!

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/it-was-like-a-merrygoround-at-a-carnival-ireland-rugby-stars-accused-of-rape-boasted-about-sex-on-whatsapp-36547048.html?utm_content=bufferf14da&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Those defending them last year will be very quiet today. All the high-priced lawyers in the world won't save these scumbags.
;D Hilarious. To be fair to Syf he is easily the most entertaining poster on this board.

It's like David Walsh telling us how he exposed Team Sky.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: HiMucker on April 10, 2018, 11:52:41 AM
This would indicate to me that both players are seeking to get back playing for Ulster and have no intention to move to another club. I think that Ulster rugby and the IRFU would prefer not to have to make this decision but there will likely be another fall out whatever the decision is since the players seem intent on staying put.

I think you are giving too much weight to how many fûcks the IRFU give. They will get rid of them even if they have to pay them something to void the last year of their contracts. They are not coming back. It is as simple as that and some would do well to remember that.

And you're great at predicting things! The boards Mystic Meg

I did predict the verdict and the course of the entire trial from square one so you really whiffed on that response, just like your last as it happens.

Yes as did everyone at the court case did, as there was no case to answer for
We must have imagined that whole trial then. 
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on April 10, 2018, 12:05:25 PM
This would indicate to me that both players are seeking to get back playing for Ulster and have no intention to move to another club. I think that Ulster rugby and the IRFU would prefer not to have to make this decision but there will likely be another fall out whatever the decision is since the players seem intent on staying put.

I think you are giving too much weight to how many fûcks the IRFU give. They will get rid of them even if they have to pay them something to void the last year of their contracts. They are not coming back. It is as simple as that and some would do well to remember that.

And you're great at predicting things! The boards Mystic Meg

I did predict the verdict and the course of the entire trial from square one so you really whiffed on that response, just like your last as it happens.

 :-\

Holy f**k this is looking very very bad for the two lads. . . If proven guilty they shouldn't be playing for Ulster or Ireland again!!

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/it-was-like-a-merrygoround-at-a-carnival-ireland-rugby-stars-accused-of-rape-boasted-about-sex-on-whatsapp-36547048.html?utm_content=bufferf14da&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Those defending them last year will be very quiet today. All the high-priced lawyers in the world won't save these scumbags.
;D Hilarious. To be fair to Syf he is easily the most entertaining poster on this board.

It's like David Walsh telling us how he exposed Team Sky.

In Asal Mor’s mind this has worked out well for Paddy Jackson, a situation where there are protests against him and widespread belief that he is a rapist. He will be fired by the IRFU and will have to flee the country. As I have always said, the odds are stacked against rape victims getting convictions but dirt sticks, thankfully in this case.

You are nothing if not consistent in your odiousness.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 10, 2018, 12:41:38 PM
Gloating over someone losing his job, name damaged over having sex with a girl and telling his mates about it, I dont think there is a poster on here who's had sex with on a one night fling and not told anyone

hmmm? me thinks your are a strange person
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Asal Mor on April 10, 2018, 12:58:17 PM
This would indicate to me that both players are seeking to get back playing for Ulster and have no intention to move to another club. I think that Ulster rugby and the IRFU would prefer not to have to make this decision but there will likely be another fall out whatever the decision is since the players seem intent on staying put.

I think you are giving too much weight to how many fûcks the IRFU give. They will get rid of them even if they have to pay them something to void the last year of their contracts. They are not coming back. It is as simple as that and some would do well to remember that.

And you're great at predicting things! The boards Mystic Meg

I did predict the verdict and the course of the entire trial from square one so you really whiffed on that response, just like your last as it happens.

 :-\

Holy f**k this is looking very very bad for the two lads. . . If proven guilty they shouldn't be playing for Ulster or Ireland again!!

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/it-was-like-a-merrygoround-at-a-carnival-ireland-rugby-stars-accused-of-rape-boasted-about-sex-on-whatsapp-36547048.html?utm_content=bufferf14da&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Those defending them last year will be very quiet today. All the high-priced lawyers in the world won't save these scumbags.
;D Hilarious. To be fair to Syf he is easily the most entertaining poster on this board.

It's like David Walsh telling us how he exposed Team Sky.

In Asal Mor’s mind this has worked out well for Paddy Jackson, a situation where there are protests against him and widespread belief that he is a rapist. He will be fired by the IRFU and will have to flee the country. As I have always said, the odds are stacked against rape victims getting convictions but dirt sticks, thankfully in this case.

You are nothing if not consistent in your odiousness.
  ;D Odiousness - I love it.

Far be it from me to question the accuracy of your renowned mind reading skills, but I wasn't aware that I thought that until you told me.

I am disappointed PJ apologised though. It was self-serving and disingenuous and it just fuels these online lynch mobs when you bow down to them. I liked his "I'll sue everyone" stance. It was always going to backfire and have a Streisand effect but at least it was honest. It would have been hilarious and infinitely more admirable if he'd gone full on Andy Kauffman and riled the feminists at every turn. I think the best way to diffuse the imagined power of these mobs would be to give them the two fingers and laugh in their faces.

Imo the kind of people who sign online petitions to stop a man getting on with his life, when for all they know he hasn't raped anyone deserve nothing more than contempt anyway.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: David McKeown on April 10, 2018, 01:01:56 PM
I'm glad we finally have a suggestion as to what can be changed with the system. Too often muck and mistruths have been thrown at the system. If we can start from the correct position and then find a way to improve it then that that's to everyone's benefit.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on April 10, 2018, 01:09:22 PM
I don’t agree with the notion of pre-recorded evidence. I believe that the evidence should be heard in the presence of the jury but I do believe that it would possibly be an idea that it be done in camera with reporting restrictions on it till after the trial.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Farrandeelin on April 10, 2018, 01:15:08 PM
This would indicate to me that both players are seeking to get back playing for Ulster and have no intention to move to another club. I think that Ulster rugby and the IRFU would prefer not to have to make this decision but there will likely be another fall out whatever the decision is since the players seem intent on staying put.

I think you are giving too much weight to how many fûcks the IRFU give. They will get rid of them even if they have to pay them something to void the last year of their contracts. They are not coming back. It is as simple as that and some would do well to remember that.

And you're great at predicting things! The boards Mystic Meg

I did predict the verdict and the course of the entire trial from square one so you really whiffed on that response, just like your last as it happens.

 :-\

Holy f**k this is looking very very bad for the two lads. . . If proven guilty they shouldn't be playing for Ulster or Ireland again!!

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/it-was-like-a-merrygoround-at-a-carnival-ireland-rugby-stars-accused-of-rape-boasted-about-sex-on-whatsapp-36547048.html?utm_content=bufferf14da&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Those defending them last year will be very quiet today. All the high-priced lawyers in the world won't save these scumbags.
Very good.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Franko on April 10, 2018, 01:28:40 PM
This would indicate to me that both players are seeking to get back playing for Ulster and have no intention to move to another club. I think that Ulster rugby and the IRFU would prefer not to have to make this decision but there will likely be another fall out whatever the decision is since the players seem intent on staying put.

I think you are giving too much weight to how many fûcks the IRFU give. They will get rid of them even if they have to pay them something to void the last year of their contracts. They are not coming back. It is as simple as that and some would do well to remember that.

And you're great at predicting things! The boards Mystic Meg

I did predict the verdict and the course of the entire trial from square one so you really whiffed on that response, just like your last as it happens.

 :-\

Holy f**k this is looking very very bad for the two lads. . . If proven guilty they shouldn't be playing for Ulster or Ireland again!!

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/it-was-like-a-merrygoround-at-a-carnival-ireland-rugby-stars-accused-of-rape-boasted-about-sex-on-whatsapp-36547048.html?utm_content=bufferf14da&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Those defending them last year will be very quiet today. All the high-priced lawyers in the world won't save these scumbags.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Taylor on April 10, 2018, 01:56:34 PM
This would indicate to me that both players are seeking to get back playing for Ulster and have no intention to move to another club. I think that Ulster rugby and the IRFU would prefer not to have to make this decision but there will likely be another fall out whatever the decision is since the players seem intent on staying put.

I think you are giving too much weight to how many fûcks the IRFU give. They will get rid of them even if they have to pay them something to void the last year of their contracts. They are not coming back. It is as simple as that and some would do well to remember that.

And you're great at predicting things! The boards Mystic Meg

I did predict the verdict and the course of the entire trial from square one so you really whiffed on that response, just like your last as it happens.

 :-\

Holy f**k this is looking very very bad for the two lads. . . If proven guilty they shouldn't be playing for Ulster or Ireland again!!

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/it-was-like-a-merrygoround-at-a-carnival-ireland-rugby-stars-accused-of-rape-boasted-about-sex-on-whatsapp-36547048.html?utm_content=bufferf14da&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Those defending them last year will be very quiet today. All the high-priced lawyers in the world won't save these scumbags.

 ;D ;D

He is at least consistent in his knowledge of absolutely f**king nothing
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 10, 2018, 02:09:48 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/apr/09/about-the-boys-tim-winton-on-how-toxic-masculinity-is-shackling-men-to-misogyny
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Lar Naparka on April 10, 2018, 02:42:08 PM
How do you lads be bothered?
For the craic, Jim.  ;D ;D
The weather is too lousy to stir out and the championships are still weeks away so what else can a body do?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Dinny Breen on April 10, 2018, 02:44:38 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/apr/09/about-the-boys-tim-winton-on-how-toxic-masculinity-is-shackling-men-to-misogyny

Ah Tim Winton, wrote Cloud Street, an excellent book.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Owen Brannigan on April 10, 2018, 05:18:45 PM
I don’t agree with the notion of pre-recorded evidence. I believe that the evidence should be heard in the presence of the jury but I do believe that it would possibly be an idea that it be done in camera with reporting restrictions on it till after the trial.

Correct.  A hearing in camera with the legal teams, defendants and jury present with each witness and the defendant given the option to give evidence by video link if necessary is the minimum standard.  The IP must be willing to give his/her evidence in court but not public. Reporting restrictions are also a necessity and only lifted in exceptional circumstances.  Video recording of initial interviews would be a big step forward and, as shown in this case, properly experienced medical examiners.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: DuffleKing on April 10, 2018, 10:33:38 PM

In how many areas of our society would we tolerate anyone who refuted, defended and was found not guilty by a jury of their peers for any defence to be attacked and vilified irrespective of the result of

Beyond legislating that all accusers are to be believed carte blanche the legal system rightly places the burden of proof on the prosecution. It’s that simple.

This is madness and should not be tolerated.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: longballin on April 10, 2018, 10:35:11 PM
I remember it happened to OJ Simpson as well. He got cleared and was vilified and ostracised afterwards...
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Minder on April 10, 2018, 10:37:22 PM
I remember it happened to OJ Simpson as well. He got cleared and was vilified and ostracised afterwards...

It was fairly obvious the Juice did it though, watched that ESPN OJ documentary a couple of years ago and a few of the black jurors basically said they were gonna find him not guilty regardless of the evidence, as a kind of payback for the Rodney King beating.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 10, 2018, 10:38:54 PM
I remember it happened to OJ Simpson as well. He got cleared and was vilified and ostracised afterwards...

Double murder and a threesome? Are you for real?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: longballin on April 10, 2018, 10:41:00 PM
I remember it happened to OJ Simpson as well. He got cleared and was vilified and ostracised afterwards...

Double murder and a threesome? Are you for real?

OJ wasn't convicted of double murder. The world is mad anyway, Tyson got done for rape and is still a hero to many.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 10, 2018, 10:42:54 PM
I remember it happened to OJ Simpson as well. He got cleared and was vilified and ostracised afterwards...

Double murder and a threesome? Are you for real?

OJ wasn't convicted of double murder. The world is mad anyway, Tyson got done for rape and is still a hero to many.

No he wasn’t but if you link a rape case where someone got ‘off’ in you’re mind then that may work.. as for Tyson he was an animal
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: longballin on April 10, 2018, 10:49:01 PM
I remember it happened to OJ Simpson as well. He got cleared and was vilified and ostracised afterwards...

Double murder and a threesome? Are you for real?

OJ wasn't convicted of double murder. The world is mad anyway, Tyson got done for rape and is still a hero to many.

No he wasn’t but if you link a rape case where someone got ‘off’ in you’re mind then that may work.. as for Tyson he was an animal

I didnt say 'got off' - I said he was 'cleared'
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: David McKeown on April 10, 2018, 10:49:18 PM
I don’t agree with the notion of pre-recorded evidence. I believe that the evidence should be heard in the presence of the jury but I do believe that it would possibly be an idea that it be done in camera with reporting restrictions on it till after the trial.

Correct.  A hearing in camera with the legal teams, defendants and jury present with each witness and the defendant given the option to give evidence by video link if necessary is the minimum standard.  The IP must be willing to give his/her evidence in court but not public. Reporting restrictions are also a necessity and only lifted in exceptional circumstances.  Video recording of initial interviews would be a big step forward and, as shown in this case, properly experienced medical examiners.

Whilst I can see the obvious advantages I'm not sure thats necessarily the way to go either, for justice to be done it must also be seen to be done.  In camber hearings do little to dissuade other would be offenders and allow for the possibility of all sorts of accusations of why people are acquitted. Neither way is perfect but I think the current system is slightly preferable to that alternative.

ABE interviews like those used with child witnesses isn't a bad idea but and while Ive only run a few cases with ABE interviews instead of examination in chief, I feel a lot of the force of a complainants evidence can be lost when they are used.  Again I can see the advantages though so it may be worth trailing.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: moysider on April 11, 2018, 01:31:23 AM
I remember it happened to OJ Simpson as well. He got cleared and was vilified and ostracised afterwards...

Double murder and a threesome? Are you for real?

What's the differnce? Both trials conducted on their own merits. OJ walked and the Jackson trio walked. No consistency thinking that OJ got away with murder and Jackson and co. didn't get away with rape. You might think that a  gang- bang on an 19 yr old girl is not a big deal- but this girl obviously was not a willing participant. Does a girl have to be killed or badly beaten before there is a conviction? It appears like there is no point police or procecution bothering with a case otherwise.
 
Maybe the whole thing about definition of rape needs to be looked at? The message seems to be that unless a girl is destroyed by a phycho, forget about it, she were asking for it. You happy with that? Ever wonder in a lot of cultures around the world that girls are subjected to genital mutilation, others forced to wear burkas and hijabs and be chaperoned by family?
 The thing that a lot of people are missing in this story is the lack of care and responsibility there was towards that girl. Girls have freedom here that they don't have in other parts of the world and that should be cherished, not taken advantage of. Jackson had a duty of care for that girl in his house and he fucked up. Their 'apologies' afterwards acknowledged that to an extent. 
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: nrico2006 on April 11, 2018, 08:21:44 AM
I remember it happened to OJ Simpson as well. He got cleared and was vilified and ostracised afterwards...

Double murder and a threesome? Are you for real?

What's the differnce? Both trials conducted on their own merits. OJ walked and the Jackson trio walked. No consistency thinking that OJ got away with murder and Jackson and co. didn't get away with rape. You might think that a  gang- bang on an 19 yr old girl is not a big deal- but this girl obviously was not a willing participant. Does a girl have to be killed or badly beaten before there is a conviction? It appears like there is no point police or procecution bothering with a case otherwise.
 
Maybe the whole thing about definition of rape needs to be looked at? The message seems to be that unless a girl is destroyed by a phycho, forget about it, she were asking for it. You happy with that? Ever wonder in a lot of cultures around the world that girls are subjected to genital mutilation, others forced to wear burkas and hijabs and be chaperoned by family?
 The thing that a lot of people are missing in this story is the lack of care and responsibility there was towards that girl. Girls have freedom here that they don't have in other parts of the world and that should be cherished, not taken advantage of. Jackson had a duty of care for that girl in his house and he fucked up. Their 'apologies' afterwards acknowledged that to an extent. 

The girl is an adult, it is her responsibility to look after herself, its wasn't up to Jackson or anybody else.  He probably 'f*cked up' in allowing strange girls into his house and probably won't make that mistake again.  As for the 'gang-bang' or whatever you want to term the incident that played out that night, the jury found that she was a willing participant. 
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Hound on April 11, 2018, 08:24:40 AM
I remember it happened to OJ Simpson as well. He got cleared and was vilified and ostracised afterwards...

Double murder and a threesome? Are you for real?

What's the differnce? Both trials conducted on their own merits. OJ walked and the Jackson trio walked. No consistency thinking that OJ got away with murder and Jackson and co. didn't get away with rape. You might think that a  gang- bang on an 19 yr old girl is not a big deal- but this girl obviously was not a willing participant. Does a girl have to be killed or badly beaten before there is a conviction? It appears like there is no point police or procecution bothering with a case otherwise.
 

Utter nonsense moy.

It wasn't obvious to Dara Florence. And, more importantly, it wasn't obvious to the 11 jurors who actually listened to all the evidence presented.

But it's obvious to you! 

Based on what? The word of someone who falsely accused Olding of vaginal rape, before changing her mind?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Asal Mor on April 11, 2018, 08:36:17 AM
+1. Well said Hound.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 11, 2018, 09:11:49 AM
I remember it happened to OJ Simpson as well. He got cleared and was vilified and ostracised afterwards...

Double murder and a threesome? Are you for real?

What's the differnce? Both trials conducted on their own merits. OJ walked and the Jackson trio walked. No consistency thinking that OJ got away with murder and Jackson and co. didn't get away with rape. You might think that a  gang- bang on an 19 yr old girl is not a big deal- but this girl obviously was not a willing participant. Does a girl have to be killed or badly beaten before there is a conviction? It appears like there is no point police or procecution bothering with a case otherwise.
 
Maybe the whole thing about definition of rape needs to be looked at? The message seems to be that unless a girl is destroyed by a phycho, forget about it, she were asking for it. You happy with that? Ever wonder in a lot of cultures around the world that girls are subjected to genital mutilation, others forced to wear burkas and hijabs and be chaperoned by family?
 The thing that a lot of people are missing in this story is the lack of care and responsibility there was towards that girl. Girls have freedom here that they don't have in other parts of the world and that should be cherished, not taken advantage of. Jackson had a duty of care for that girl in his house and he fucked up. Their 'apologies' afterwards acknowledged that to an extent.

So you think that Padyy and his mates had a gang bang? are you saying he raped that girl?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Mourne Red on April 11, 2018, 03:28:25 PM
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/additional-blood-on-jacksons-sheets-a-pornographic-video-and-middle-class-tweet-reporting-restrictions-on-belfast-rape-trial-lifted-36797424.html

Jesus, wonder what they had on the judge.. Wouldn’t allow anything, very favourable to the defence
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: LeoMc on April 11, 2018, 04:02:27 PM
I remember it happened to OJ Simpson as well. He got cleared and was vilified and ostracised afterwards...

Double murder and a threesome? Are you for real?

What's the differnce? Both trials conducted on their own merits. OJ walked and the Jackson trio walked. No consistency thinking that OJ got away with murder and Jackson and co. didn't get away with rape. You might think that a  gang- bang on an 19 yr old girl is not a big deal- but this girl obviously was not a willing participant. Does a girl have to be killed or badly beaten before there is a conviction? It appears like there is no point police or procecution bothering with a case otherwise.
 

Utter nonsense moy.

It wasn't obvious to Dara Florence. And, more importantly, it wasn't obvious to the 11 jurors who actually listened to all the evidence presented.

But it's obvious to you! 

Based on what? The word of someone who falsely accused Olding of vaginal rape, before changing her mind?

Falsely accused or couldn't prove?


Stuart Olding’s lawyer, Frank O’Donoghue QC, was successful in having the forensic evidence regarding his client somewhat played down. Samples of Mr Olding’s semen were found by forensic scientists on the crotch area of the young woman’s white jeans.

A charge of vaginal rape against Mr Olding was dropped before Christmas and he was charged, and subsequently acquitted, of one count of oral rape. Mr O’Donoghue argued that if the jury was told where the semen had been found on the woman’s jeans, it might create an “unfair suspicion” in the minds of jurors

Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Hound on April 11, 2018, 04:30:58 PM
I remember it happened to OJ Simpson as well. He got cleared and was vilified and ostracised afterwards...

Double murder and a threesome? Are you for real?

What's the differnce? Both trials conducted on their own merits. OJ walked and the Jackson trio walked. No consistency thinking that OJ got away with murder and Jackson and co. didn't get away with rape. You might think that a  gang- bang on an 19 yr old girl is not a big deal- but this girl obviously was not a willing participant. Does a girl have to be killed or badly beaten before there is a conviction? It appears like there is no point police or procecution bothering with a case otherwise.
 

Utter nonsense moy.

It wasn't obvious to Dara Florence. And, more importantly, it wasn't obvious to the 11 jurors who actually listened to all the evidence presented.

But it's obvious to you! 

Based on what? The word of someone who falsely accused Olding of vaginal rape, before changing her mind?

Falsely accused or couldn't prove?


Stuart Olding’s lawyer, Frank O’Donoghue QC, was successful in having the forensic evidence regarding his client somewhat played down. Samples of Mr Olding’s semen were found by forensic scientists on the crotch area of the young woman’s white jeans.

A charge of vaginal rape against Mr Olding was dropped before Christmas and he was charged, and subsequently acquitted, of one count of oral rape. Mr O’Donoghue argued that if the jury was told where the semen had been found on the woman’s jeans, it might create an “unfair suspicion” in the minds of jurors

Maybe I am taking you up wrong, but you seem to be suggesting that he may have ejaculated through vaginal sex with semen being found on the crotch area of the woman's jeans?
So are you saying she lied about the BJ, or that he ejaculated twice? Which was first?

Your implication doesn't come anywhere near to adding up.

As agreed by all parties, the crotch area of her jeans wasn't at her crotch area when Olding entered the room. Splatters could have gone anywhere when he ejaculated. He aimed for his stomach but difficult to get it all there! And even as he's getting up it's inevitable that splatters will go in various places.

Olding's story when he first told the police and when he gave evidence to the court was pretty much exactly the same. He was the most consistent of all the parties. She changed her story to tie in to something very close to Olding's story, bar the consent. Her initial story was a lot different.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Asal Mor on April 11, 2018, 04:40:16 PM
Could the semen have ended up there from him earlier having ejaculated inside her when she'd gotten dressed? You'd imagine it would also have been found on her underwear though.

I'm against evidence being withheld from the jury. It doesn't make sense to me why you wouldn't let them decide how relevant it is but I'd be interested to hear David's or bcb's take.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: LeoMc on April 11, 2018, 04:44:00 PM
I remember it happened to OJ Simpson as well. He got cleared and was vilified and ostracised afterwards...

Double murder and a threesome? Are you for real?

What's the differnce? Both trials conducted on their own merits. OJ walked and the Jackson trio walked. No consistency thinking that OJ got away with murder and Jackson and co. didn't get away with rape. You might think that a  gang- bang on an 19 yr old girl is not a big deal- but this girl obviously was not a willing participant. Does a girl have to be killed or badly beaten before there is a conviction? It appears like there is no point police or procecution bothering with a case otherwise.
 

Utter nonsense moy.

It wasn't obvious to Dara Florence. And, more importantly, it wasn't obvious to the 11 jurors who actually listened to all the evidence presented.

But it's obvious to you! 

Based on what? The word of someone who falsely accused Olding of vaginal rape, before changing her mind?

Falsely accused or couldn't prove?


Stuart Olding’s lawyer, Frank O’Donoghue QC, was successful in having the forensic evidence regarding his client somewhat played down. Samples of Mr Olding’s semen were found by forensic scientists on the crotch area of the young woman’s white jeans.

A charge of vaginal rape against Mr Olding was dropped before Christmas and he was charged, and subsequently acquitted, of one count of oral rape. Mr O’Donoghue argued that if the jury was told where the semen had been found on the woman’s jeans, it might create an “unfair suspicion” in the minds of jurors

Maybe I am taking you up wrong, but you seem to be suggesting that he may have ejaculated through vaginal sex with semen being found on the crotch area of the woman's jeans?
So are you saying she lied about the BJ, or that he ejaculated twice? Which was first?

Your implication doesn't come anywhere near to adding up.

As agreed by all parties, the crotch area of her jeans wasn't at her crotch area when Olding entered the room. Splatters could have gone anywhere when he ejaculated. He aimed for his stomach but difficult to get it all there! And even as he's getting up it's inevitable that splatters will go in various places.

Olding's story when he first told the police and when he gave evidence to the court was pretty much exactly the same. He was the most consistent of all the parties. She changed her story to tie in to something very close to Olding's story, bar the consent. Her initial story was a lot different.

Just stirring the pot... though it is a great defence argument "you cant use something which will will make my client look bad".



Just thought it was a great argument by the defence
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: LeoMc on April 11, 2018, 04:48:16 PM
Could the semen have ended up there from him earlier having ejaculated inside her when she'd gotten dressed? You'd imagine it would also have been found on her underwear though.

I'm against evidence being withheld from the jury. It doesn't make sense to me why you wouldn't let them decide how relevant it is but I'd be interested to hear David's or bcb's take.

I think the charge was withdrawn a lot earlier than the "evidence" being withheld.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 11, 2018, 04:51:03 PM
The whole thing remains a clusterfuck. The trial didn't clear anything up.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AQMP on April 11, 2018, 04:56:41 PM
I remember it happened to OJ Simpson as well. He got cleared and was vilified and ostracised afterwards...

Double murder and a threesome? Are you for real?

What's the differnce? Both trials conducted on their own merits. OJ walked and the Jackson trio walked. No consistency thinking that OJ got away with murder and Jackson and co. didn't get away with rape. You might think that a  gang- bang on an 19 yr old girl is not a big deal- but this girl obviously was not a willing participant. Does a girl have to be killed or badly beaten before there is a conviction? It appears like there is no point police or procecution bothering with a case otherwise.
 

Utter nonsense moy.

It wasn't obvious to Dara Florence. And, more importantly, it wasn't obvious to the 11 jurors who actually listened to all the evidence presented.

But it's obvious to you! 

Based on what? The word of someone who falsely accused Olding of vaginal rape, before changing her mind?

Falsely accused or couldn't prove?


Stuart Olding’s lawyer, Frank O’Donoghue QC, was successful in having the forensic evidence regarding his client somewhat played down. Samples of Mr Olding’s semen were found by forensic scientists on the crotch area of the young woman’s white jeans.

A charge of vaginal rape against Mr Olding was dropped before Christmas and he was charged, and subsequently acquitted, of one count of oral rape. Mr O’Donoghue argued that if the jury was told where the semen had been found on the woman’s jeans, it might create an “unfair suspicion” in the minds of jurors

Maybe I am taking you up wrong, but you seem to be suggesting that he may have ejaculated through vaginal sex with semen being found on the crotch area of the woman's jeans?
So are you saying she lied about the BJ, or that he ejaculated twice? Which was first?

Your implication doesn't come anywhere near to adding up.

As agreed by all parties, the crotch area of her jeans wasn't at her crotch area when Olding entered the room. Splatters could have gone anywhere when he ejaculated. He aimed for his stomach but difficult to get it all there! And even as he's getting up it's inevitable that splatters will go in various places.

Olding's story when he first told the police and when he gave evidence to the court was pretty much exactly the same. He was the most consistent of all the parties. She changed her story to tie in to something very close to Olding's story, bar the consent. Her initial story was a lot different.

You sound like an expert on the qualities of jism splashing there Hound ;)
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AQMP on April 11, 2018, 04:57:42 PM
I think it's quite clear where the additional blood on Jackson's sheets came from.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Asal Mor on April 11, 2018, 05:00:21 PM
I think it's quite clear where the additional blood on Jackson's sheets came from.
Rugby injury presumably.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AQMP on April 11, 2018, 05:00:42 PM
Kelly and O'Donoghue both tried to have the jury discharged late in the trial.  For several grand a day they're not very good at reading juries, are they? :o
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on April 11, 2018, 05:18:11 PM
The whole thing remains a clusterfuck. The trial didn't clear anything up.

It made it pretty obvious that the likes of Asal Mor and Hound get a perverse enjoyment talking about the female reproductive system.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on April 11, 2018, 06:13:41 PM
I think it's quite clear where the additional blood on Jackson's sheets came from.

Really?  Quite clearly stated that it wasn’t the complainants so it could have been Paddy Jackson’s, or Stuart Oldings as he said he slept in the bed regularly.  Could have been any number of reasons. It wasn’t the complainants so not relevant. 
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Asal Mor on April 11, 2018, 06:23:41 PM
The whole thing remains a clusterfuck. The trial didn't clear anything up.

It made it pretty obvious that the likes of Asal Mor and Hound get a perverse enjoyment talking about the female reproductive system.
;D  ;D  :D I'll say it again Syf, you are truly a comic genius...... "the female reproductive system" - how do ya come up with them.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Taylor on April 11, 2018, 06:28:13 PM
Careful Asal, Syf is an expert on the female reproductive system.....just like he has been on every other aspect of this trial
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AZOffaly on April 11, 2018, 06:32:41 PM
Theres a very easy joke there, but I’ll be the bigger man.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Asal Mor on April 11, 2018, 06:44:10 PM
Theres a very easy joke there, but I’ll be the bigger man.
Thanks. Is that what they call a Freudian slip?  :-[
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 11, 2018, 06:49:58 PM
Theres a very easy joke there, but I’ll be the bigger man.
The word for the worst type of person is the word for where the babies come from. It has to be a patriarchy.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AZOffaly on April 11, 2018, 06:50:54 PM
Theres a very easy joke there, but I’ll be the bigger man.
The word for the worst type of person is the word for where the babies come from. It has to be a patriarchy.

p***k? Bollocks? Dick? Knob?

I don’t think insults are gender constrained.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Asal Mor on April 11, 2018, 06:56:20 PM
Careful Asal, Syf is an expert on the female reproductive system.....just like he has been on every other aspect of this trial
A lot of anger about this inadmissible evidence from the #ibelieveher movement, of which I am an avid follower. No specific criticism of the judge (who is the lucky owner of a female reproductive system - Syf is right as usual, I can't help myself)that I've seen though. If the judge was a man I feel he might have gotten a personal mention or two. Just maybe like.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on April 11, 2018, 07:12:24 PM
I hope people are not suggesting that he is a cvnt?  (Spelling adjustment for bad words!). That’s a real term of endearment where I’m from  ;D
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 11, 2018, 07:49:50 PM
Theres a very easy joke there, but I’ll be the bigger man.
The word for the worst type of person is the word for where the babies come from. It has to be a patriarchy.

p***k? Bollocks? Dick? Knob?

I don’t think insults are gender constrained.
None of those gets anywhere near the ultimate insult
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: David McKeown on April 11, 2018, 08:14:50 PM
Could the semen have ended up there from him earlier having ejaculated inside her when she'd gotten dressed? You'd imagine it would also have been found on her underwear though.

I'm against evidence being withheld from the jury. It doesn't make sense to me why you wouldn't let them decide how relevant it is but I'd be interested to hear David's or bcb's take.

The role of the jury is to decide cases on all relevant evidence. That said evidence can be excluded if it's prejudicial effect outweighs its probabitive value. In the article it mentions a couple of examples of this. Firstly the blood of someone else on the sheets. As that wasn't the complainants blood it's hard to see what if any probative value it would have. However blood on the sheets would likely have the jury asking questions like whose was it, how did it get there etc. It's easy to see how this might have been prejudicial to the defence if the evidence which is of little probabtive value was to be admitted.

The rationale behind not putting everything to the jury is the concern is they will become fixated on an irrelevance.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: tyssam5 on April 11, 2018, 08:23:41 PM
Kelly and O'Donoghue both tried to have the jury discharged late in the trial.  For several grand a day they're not very good at reading juries, are they? :o

Yeah Kelly apparently 'on instruction' so neither they nor the lads were feeling very confident by the looks of it.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AQMP on April 11, 2018, 08:36:07 PM
I think it's quite clear where the additional blood on Jackson's sheets came from.

Really?  Quite clearly stated that it wasn’t the complainants so it could have been Paddy Jackson’s, or Stuart Oldings as he said he slept in the bed regularly.  Could have been any number of reasons. It wasn’t the complainants so not relevant.

You’re close
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AQMP on April 11, 2018, 08:40:00 PM
Could the semen have ended up there from him earlier having ejaculated inside her when she'd gotten dressed? You'd imagine it would also have been found on her underwear though.

I'm against evidence being withheld from the jury. It doesn't make sense to me why you wouldn't let them decide how relevant it is but I'd be interested to hear David's or bcb's take.

The role of the jury is to decide cases on all relevant evidence. That said evidence can be excluded if it's prejudicial effect outweighs its probabitive value. In the article it mentions a couple of examples of this. Firstly the blood of someone else on the sheets. As that wasn't the complainants blood it's hard to see what if any probative value it would have. However blood on the sheets would likely have the jury asking questions like whose was it, how did it get there etc. It's easy to see how this might have been prejudicial to the defence if the evidence which is of little probabtive value was to be admitted.

The rationale behind not putting everything to the jury is the concern is they will become fixated on an irrelevance.

Sure you get all the evidence on Twitter😉. Have to say O’Donoghues argument about Naomi Longs tweet was very weak. They mustn’t have been too confident??
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: David McKeown on April 11, 2018, 09:55:44 PM
Could the semen have ended up there from him earlier having ejaculated inside her when she'd gotten dressed? You'd imagine it would also have been found on her underwear though.

I'm against evidence being withheld from the jury. It doesn't make sense to me why you wouldn't let them decide how relevant it is but I'd be interested to hear David's or bcb's take.

The role of the jury is to decide cases on all relevant evidence. That said evidence can be excluded if it's prejudicial effect outweighs its probabitive value. In the article it mentions a couple of examples of this. Firstly the blood of someone else on the sheets. As that wasn't the complainants blood it's hard to see what if any probative value it would have. However blood on the sheets would likely have the jury asking questions like whose was it, how did it get there etc. It's easy to see how this might have been prejudicial to the defence if the evidence which is of little probabtive value was to be admitted.

The rationale behind not putting everything to the jury is the concern is they will become fixated on an irrelevance.

Sure you get all the evidence on Twitter😉. Have to say O’Donoghues argument about Naomi Longs tweet was very weak. They mustn’t have been too confident??

Anyone who tries to second guess a jury is a fool.  Very very difficult to predict
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: sid waddell on April 12, 2018, 01:03:54 AM
I remember it happened to OJ Simpson as well. He got cleared and was vilified and ostracised afterwards...

Double murder and a threesome? Are you for real?

What's the differnce? Both trials conducted on their own merits. OJ walked and the Jackson trio walked. No consistency thinking that OJ got away with murder and Jackson and co. didn't get away with rape. You might think that a  gang- bang on an 19 yr old girl is not a big deal- but this girl obviously was not a willing participant. Does a girl have to be killed or badly beaten before there is a conviction? It appears like there is no point police or procecution bothering with a case otherwise.
 
Maybe the whole thing about definition of rape needs to be looked at? The message seems to be that unless a girl is destroyed by a phycho, forget about it, she were asking for it. You happy with that? Ever wonder in a lot of cultures around the world that girls are subjected to genital mutilation, others forced to wear burkas and hijabs and be chaperoned by family?
 The thing that a lot of people are missing in this story is the lack of care and responsibility there was towards that girl. Girls have freedom here that they don't have in other parts of the world and that should be cherished, not taken advantage of. Jackson had a duty of care for that girl in his house and he fucked up. Their 'apologies' afterwards acknowledged that to an extent. 

The girl is an adult, it is her responsibility to look after herself, its wasn't up to Jackson or anybody else.  He probably 'f*cked up' in allowing strange girls into his house and probably won't make that mistake again.  As for the 'gang-bang' or whatever you want to term the incident that played out that night, the jury found that she was a willing participant.
They did not.

Quite amazing that this still has to be explained to posters.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2018, 07:37:31 AM
What’s amazing is you still don’t get it! The case is over, not guilty.. let it go
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: magpie seanie on April 12, 2018, 08:31:59 AM
I remember it happened to OJ Simpson as well. He got cleared and was vilified and ostracised afterwards...

Double murder and a threesome? Are you for real?

What's the differnce? Both trials conducted on their own merits. OJ walked and the Jackson trio walked. No consistency thinking that OJ got away with murder and Jackson and co. didn't get away with rape. You might think that a  gang- bang on an 19 yr old girl is not a big deal- but this girl obviously was not a willing participant. Does a girl have to be killed or badly beaten before there is a conviction? It appears like there is no point police or procecution bothering with a case otherwise.
 
Maybe the whole thing about definition of rape needs to be looked at? The message seems to be that unless a girl is destroyed by a phycho, forget about it, she were asking for it. You happy with that? Ever wonder in a lot of cultures around the world that girls are subjected to genital mutilation, others forced to wear burkas and hijabs and be chaperoned by family?
 The thing that a lot of people are missing in this story is the lack of care and responsibility there was towards that girl. Girls have freedom here that they don't have in other parts of the world and that should be cherished, not taken advantage of. Jackson had a duty of care for that girl in his house and he fucked up. Their 'apologies' afterwards acknowledged that to an extent. 

The girl is an adult, it is her responsibility to look after herself, its wasn't up to Jackson or anybody else.  He probably 'f*cked up' in allowing strange girls into his house and probably won't make that mistake again.  As for the 'gang-bang' or whatever you want to term the incident that played out that night, the jury found that she was a willing participant.
They did not.

Quite amazing that this still has to be explained to posters.


You're wasting your time Sid. There are none so blind as those who do not wish to see.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2018, 09:19:33 AM
The jury believed there was consent..

There are none so blind as those who do not wish to see.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: TabClear on April 12, 2018, 09:26:46 AM
The jury believed there was consent..

There are none so blind as those who do not wish to see.

Not necessarily. The jury believed at a minimum that it was reasonable for the defendants to have believed there was consent.

The reality is that nobody still knows for definite what went on that night, and that possibly includes those involved! The recent reporting from the previously restricted part of the case does indicate the defendants and their legal teams were worried.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2018, 09:47:17 AM
The jury believed there was consent..

There are none so blind as those who do not wish to see.

Not necessarily. The jury believed at a minimum that it was reasonable for the defendants to have believed there was consent.

The reality is that nobody still knows for definite what went on that night, and that possibly includes those involved! The recent reporting from the previously restricted part of the case does indicate the defendants and their legal teams were worried.

I've said that, but the jury is what really matters here and how the judge directed them and having heard all the evidence that was available to them.. you could have another 200 odd posts on this with ones believing they were raping a girl, and others going, well it could have bee this and that and ones flatly saying she was consenting to sex and just felt bad afterwards and got way in over her head

The legal team will always try and get information withdrawn to suit their own case, as would the QC trying to get stuff put into the case to strengthen theirs... to be honest though I didnt see anything in the extra stuff to make me think that the jury would have changed their minds, considering they only took under 4 hours to get the verdict
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: TabClear on April 12, 2018, 10:10:25 AM
The jury believed there was consent..

There are none so blind as those who do not wish to see.

Not necessarily. The jury believed at a minimum that it was reasonable for the defendants to have believed there was consent.

The reality is that nobody still knows for definite what went on that night, and that possibly includes those involved! The recent reporting from the previously restricted part of the case does indicate the defendants and their legal teams were worried.

I've said that, but the jury is what really matters here and how the judge directed them and having heard all the evidence that was available to them.. you could have another 200 odd posts on this with ones believing they were raping a girl, and others going, well it could have bee this and that and ones flatly saying she was consenting to sex and just felt bad afterwards and got way in over her head

The legal team will always try and get information withdrawn to suit their own case, as would the QC trying to get stuff put into the case to strengthen theirs... to be honest though I didnt see anything in the extra stuff to make me think that the jury would have changed their minds, considering they only took under 4 hours to get the verdict

Agree with that. in my view (with no legal expertise) the idea that a jury could potentially get discharged because of a tweet that someone with no link to the case tweeted is bizarre. I know it was discounted in this case but there obviously must be some sort of legal argument for it to have been raised by a senior barrister. I get the whole need for a fair trial and concerns around "trial by media"  but is there a concern that any quasi public figure could influence court proceeding in a case they have no link to? You look at some of the tweets the like of trump, Katie Hopkins etc put out which would be a lot more inflammatory and widely reported than Naomi Long.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2018, 10:23:59 AM
The jury believed there was consent..

There are none so blind as those who do not wish to see.

Not necessarily. The jury believed at a minimum that it was reasonable for the defendants to have believed there was consent.

The reality is that nobody still knows for definite what went on that night, and that possibly includes those involved! The recent reporting from the previously restricted part of the case does indicate the defendants and their legal teams were worried.

I've said that, but the jury is what really matters here and how the judge directed them and having heard all the evidence that was available to them.. you could have another 200 odd posts on this with ones believing they were raping a girl, and others going, well it could have bee this and that and ones flatly saying she was consenting to sex and just felt bad afterwards and got way in over her head

The legal team will always try and get information withdrawn to suit their own case, as would the QC trying to get stuff put into the case to strengthen theirs... to be honest though I didnt see anything in the extra stuff to make me think that the jury would have changed their minds, considering they only took under 4 hours to get the verdict

Agree with that. in my view (with no legal expertise) the idea that a jury could potentially get discharged because of a tweet that someone with no link to the case tweeted is bizarre. I know it was discounted in this case but there obviously must be some sort of legal argument for it to have been raised by a senior barrister. I get the whole need for a fair trial and concerns around "trial by media"  but is there a concern that any quasi public figure could influence court proceeding in a case they have no link to? You look at some of the tweets the like of trump, Katie Hopkins etc put out which would be a lot more inflammatory and widely reported than Naomi Long.

Its about how many would follow her (30,000 i heard) that could have an impact for sure and with her being a past MP and the leader of a political party then it may sway someone, who knows but if i needed a defense to fight my case I'd be hoping they work every move to help me through it and give me the best possible chance of a not guilty verdict ..

I'm glad the case is over by by fcuk its really pushing me to come off social media altogether
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Dire Ear on April 12, 2018, 11:30:19 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-43737258
Paddy Jackson attempts to retrieve costs after acquittal
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 12, 2018, 11:31:15 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/rugby-must-deal-with-derogatory-behaviour-rape-crisis-centre-1.3459365?mode=amp

Irish rugby has to deal with “disrespectful and derogatory” behaviour of role models if it wants to be seen as embodying the best spirit of Ireland, a leading rape campaigner has said.

Noeline Blackwell, chief executive of the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre, said it is a “shame and a pity” that some people are calling for an end to the continuing controversy over the rugby rape trial.

The human rights lawyer said there was a “whole lot of moral harm” that has yet to be addressed amid the fall-out from the high profile case and that a full examination was needed of the behaviour of role models.

“Here is the opportunity for all of us to grow a respect for each other, to build a better understanding of how young men talk about themselves and young women,” she told RTÉ’s Morning Ireland.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2018, 11:41:34 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/rugby-must-deal-with-derogatory-behaviour-rape-crisis-centre-1.3459365?mode=amp

Irish rugby has to deal with “disrespectful and derogatory” behaviour of role models if it wants to be seen as embodying the best spirit of Ireland, a leading rape campaigner has said.

Noeline Blackwell, chief executive of the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre, said it is a “shame and a pity” that some people are calling for an end to the continuing controversy over the rugby rape trial.

The human rights lawyer said there was a “whole lot of moral harm” that has yet to be addressed amid the fall-out from the high profile case and that a full examination was needed of the behaviour of role models.

“Here is the opportunity for all of us to grow a respect for each other, to build a better understanding of how young men talk about themselves and young women,” she told RTÉ’s Morning Ireland.

I take it she hasnt watched the show EX on the Beach? Caught a glimpse of it the other day, the talk of the girls on that show would make your face turn red!! Never mind private messages this girl and the others were giving it large to a camera!!
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 12, 2018, 11:59:36 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/rugby-must-deal-with-derogatory-behaviour-rape-crisis-centre-1.3459365?mode=amp

Irish rugby has to deal with “disrespectful and derogatory” behaviour of role models if it wants to be seen as embodying the best spirit of Ireland, a leading rape campaigner has said.

Noeline Blackwell, chief executive of the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre, said it is a “shame and a pity” that some people are calling for an end to the continuing controversy over the rugby rape trial.

The human rights lawyer said there was a “whole lot of moral harm” that has yet to be addressed amid the fall-out from the high profile case and that a full examination was needed of the behaviour of role models.

“Here is the opportunity for all of us to grow a respect for each other, to build a better understanding of how young men talk about themselves and young women,” she told RTÉ’s Morning Ireland.

I take it she hasnt watched the show EX on the Beach? Caught a glimpse of it the other day, the talk of the girls on that show would make your face turn red!! Never mind private messages this girl and the others were giving it large to a camera!!
Even if they were acquitted their behaviour was broadcast to everyone.
That is why the IRFU is in such a bind. Maybe other people are worse in private. That is private. The spit roasting is not.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AQMP on April 12, 2018, 12:56:57 PM
Bank of Ireland break cover make a statement - (my emphasis added):

"As a sponsor of Ulster Rugby, Bank of Ireland is highly concerned regarding the serious behaviour and conduct issues which have emerged as a result of the recent high profile trial.  The bank has formally conveyed these concerns to the CEO of Ulster Rugby.

It is of paramount importance to Bank of Ireland that our sponsorship activity aligns with and supports our core values, and reflects positively on Bank of Ireland through association.  We understand that an internal review is underway. We expect this review to be robust, to fully address the issues raised, and that decisions will be taken - and policies and protocols be put in place - that fully address the issues that have arisen.

Given that a review is underway, we won't comment further on this issue at this time."
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2018, 01:16:50 PM
Bank of Ireland break cover make a statement - (my emphasis added):

"As a sponsor of Ulster Rugby, Bank of Ireland is highly concerned regarding the serious behaviour and conduct issues which have emerged as a result of the recent high profile trial.  The bank has formally conveyed these concerns to the CEO of Ulster Rugby.

It is of paramount importance to Bank of Ireland that our sponsorship activity aligns with and supports our core values, and reflects positively on Bank of Ireland through association.  We understand that an internal review is underway. We expect this review to be robust, to fully address the issues raised, and that decisions will be taken - and policies and protocols be put in place - that fully address the issues that have arisen.

Given that a review is underway, we won't comment further on this issue at this time."

They should have applied those robust reviews a few years ago when the banks went tits up!
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 12, 2018, 01:23:11 PM
Bank of Ireland break cover make a statement - (my emphasis added):

"As a sponsor of Ulster Rugby, Bank of Ireland is highly concerned regarding the serious behaviour and conduct issues which have emerged as a result of the recent high profile trial.  The bank has formally conveyed these concerns to the CEO of Ulster Rugby.

It is of paramount importance to Bank of Ireland that our sponsorship activity aligns with and supports our core values, and reflects positively on Bank of Ireland through association.  We understand that an internal review is underway. We expect this review to be robust, to fully address the issues raised, and that decisions will be taken - and policies and protocols be put in place - that fully address the issues that have arisen.

Given that a review is underway, we won't comment further on this issue at this time."
This and Sue me Paddy.
They won the case but they are losing the war 
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2018, 01:23:53 PM
https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/paddy-jackson-makes-bid-recover-14521826

Thought his legal bill was higher?

Was told £300,000, #dontbelieveeverythingyouhear
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Asal Mor on April 12, 2018, 01:26:13 PM
Bank of Ireland break cover make a statement - (my emphasis added):

"As a sponsor of Ulster Rugby, Bank of Ireland is highly concerned regarding the serious behaviour and conduct issues which have emerged as a result of the recent high profile trial.  The bank has formally conveyed these concerns to the CEO of Ulster Rugby.

It is of paramount importance to Bank of Ireland that our sponsorship activity aligns with and supports our core values, and reflects positively on Bank of Ireland through association.  We understand that an internal review is underway. We expect this review to be robust, to fully address the issues raised, and that decisions will be taken - and policies and protocols be put in place - that fully address the issues that have arisen.

Given that a review is underway, we won't comment further on this issue at this time."
People who lost their homes in the tracker scandal might feel that the players' love of a good spit roast is the perfect reflection of the Bank's core values.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AQMP on April 12, 2018, 01:27:46 PM
https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/paddy-jackson-makes-bid-recover-14521826

Thought his legal bill was higher?

Was told £300,000, #dontbelieveeverythingyouhear

If it was only £100,000 he got a bargain (though it does say "over £100,000").  The trail alone lasted 42 days.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Lar Naparka on April 12, 2018, 02:29:33 PM
The jury believed there was consent..

There are none so blind as those who do not wish to see.

Not necessarily. The jury believed at a minimum that it was reasonable for the defendants to have believed there was consent.

The reality is that nobody still knows for definite what went on that night,
and that possibly includes those involved! The recent reporting from the previously restricted part of the case does indicate the defendants and their legal teams were worried.
I guess that’s fair enough, a bit convoluted alright but what you are saying has to be accepted as the outcome of the jury’s deliberations.
Being pedantic, the jury did not state unequivocally that the complainant had not been gang raped in Jackson’s bedroom but they didn’t find that she wasn’t either.
As I see it, the decision was that the prosecution had not proved its case. It failed to convince the jury that the complainants account of what happened in the room was true.
Forget about what the defence had to say; all of them could have decided not to take the stand if they so wished- it was up to the prosecution to prove its case beyond reasonable doubt.
It didn’t come anywhere near doing do.
Dara Florence’s version of what she saw in the bedroom flatly contradicted the complainant’s version. The jury did not believe the complainant so where does that leave any reasonable person?
Can anyone make the case that the complainant was gang raped without giving the two-fingered salute to the findings of the court and the integrity of the judicial process?
(BTW, I wasn’t too happy with the verdict, for what it’s worth, but I accept the decision of the court. That’s democracy for ya.)
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: sid waddell on April 12, 2018, 02:49:56 PM

Dara Florence’s version of what she saw in the bedroom flatly contradicted the complainant’s version.
It did no such thing.

It flatly contradicted Jackson.

If you believe Florence, you believe Jackson lied about having vaginal sex with the complainant.

Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 12, 2018, 03:17:52 PM
Dial a cab are also sponsors of Ulster rugby. Can't wait to hear from them.

Because the lads were acquitted did the  jury validate every single piece of their testimony, even all the contradictory stuff ?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: nrico2006 on April 12, 2018, 03:56:46 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/rugby-must-deal-with-derogatory-behaviour-rape-crisis-centre-1.3459365?mode=amp

Irish rugby has to deal with “disrespectful and derogatory” behaviour of role models if it wants to be seen as embodying the best spirit of Ireland, a leading rape campaigner has said.

Noeline Blackwell, chief executive of the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre, said it is a “shame and a pity” that some people are calling for an end to the continuing controversy over the rugby rape trial.

The human rights lawyer said there was a “whole lot of moral harm” that has yet to be addressed amid the fall-out from the high profile case and that a full examination was needed of the behaviour of role models.

“Here is the opportunity for all of us to grow a respect for each other, to build a better understanding of how young men talk about themselves and young women,” she told RTÉ’s Morning Ireland.

I take it she hasnt watched the show EX on the Beach? Caught a glimpse of it the other day, the talk of the girls on that show would make your face turn red!! Never mind private messages this girl and the others were giving it large to a camera!!
Even if they were acquitted their behaviour was broadcast to everyone.
That is why the IRFU is in such a bind. Maybe other people are worse in private. That is private. The spit roasting is not.

But the spit roasting did happen in a private residence and the messages were private too.  A false allegation has allowed everything to be made public.  Surely that is not the fault of Jackson etc and wouldn't break any morality clause in a contract?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AQMP on April 12, 2018, 04:15:10 PM
Dial a cab are also sponsors of Ulster rugby. Can't wait to hear from them.

Because the lads were acquitted did the  jury validate every single piece of their testimony, even all the contradictory stuff ?

I don't think we can say that they validated any or all of the defendants' evidence.  They didn't validate enough of the complainant's evidence to be sure beyond a reasonable doubt.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: magpie seanie on April 12, 2018, 04:16:01 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/rugby-must-deal-with-derogatory-behaviour-rape-crisis-centre-1.3459365?mode=amp

Irish rugby has to deal with “disrespectful and derogatory” behaviour of role models if it wants to be seen as embodying the best spirit of Ireland, a leading rape campaigner has said.

Noeline Blackwell, chief executive of the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre, said it is a “shame and a pity” that some people are calling for an end to the continuing controversy over the rugby rape trial.

The human rights lawyer said there was a “whole lot of moral harm” that has yet to be addressed amid the fall-out from the high profile case and that a full examination was needed of the behaviour of role models.

“Here is the opportunity for all of us to grow a respect for each other, to build a better understanding of how young men talk about themselves and young women,” she told RTÉ’s Morning Ireland.

I take it she hasnt watched the show EX on the Beach? Caught a glimpse of it the other day, the talk of the girls on that show would make your face turn red!! Never mind private messages this girl and the others were giving it large to a camera!!
Even if they were acquitted their behaviour was broadcast to everyone.
That is why the IRFU is in such a bind. Maybe other people are worse in private. That is private. The spit roasting is not.

But the spit roasting did happen in a private residence and the messages were private too.  A false allegation has allowed everything to be made public.  Surely that is not the fault of Jackson etc and wouldn't break any morality clause in a contract?


You really don't have a clue do you?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AQMP on April 12, 2018, 04:21:16 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/rugby-must-deal-with-derogatory-behaviour-rape-crisis-centre-1.3459365?mode=amp

Irish rugby has to deal with “disrespectful and derogatory” behaviour of role models if it wants to be seen as embodying the best spirit of Ireland, a leading rape campaigner has said.

Noeline Blackwell, chief executive of the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre, said it is a “shame and a pity” that some people are calling for an end to the continuing controversy over the rugby rape trial.

The human rights lawyer said there was a “whole lot of moral harm” that has yet to be addressed amid the fall-out from the high profile case and that a full examination was needed of the behaviour of role models.

“Here is the opportunity for all of us to grow a respect for each other, to build a better understanding of how young men talk about themselves and young women,” she told RTÉ’s Morning Ireland.

I take it she hasnt watched the show EX on the Beach? Caught a glimpse of it the other day, the talk of the girls on that show would make your face turn red!! Never mind private messages this girl and the others were giving it large to a camera!!
Even if they were acquitted their behaviour was broadcast to everyone.
That is why the IRFU is in such a bind. Maybe other people are worse in private. That is private. The spit roasting is not.

But the spit roasting did happen in a private residence and the messages were private too.  A false allegation has allowed everything to be made public.  Surely that is not the fault of Jackson etc and wouldn't break any morality clause in a contract?

The messages were private until they were read out in court and were in the papers.  How they got into the public domain doesn't negate the fact that the spit roasting and messaging did take place.  That's the bind for those involved.  No-one denied that the activity took place.

It's a bit like a man accused of beating his wife to death.  He admits hitting her but denies killing her saying she was still alive when he left for the pub.  The jury believes him.  Murderer? - No.  Wife beater - Yes.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Lar Naparka on April 12, 2018, 04:44:13 PM

Dara Florence’s version of what she saw in the bedroom flatly contradicted the complainant’s version.
It did no such thing.

It flatly contradicted Jackson.

If you believe Florence, you believe Jackson lied about having vaginal sex with the complainant.
I do, sid I sure do.
But I also said, that what the defence has to say is/was immaterial. It was up to the prosecution to prove its case and they didn't.
You either accept the rule of law or you don't.

(BTW, when you calm down a bit, you will find that Florence contradicted both parties.)
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 12, 2018, 04:55:35 PM
The complainant must be getting some comfort from the outside world''s view of things. The lads went on the offensive in court but left the tramlines undefended.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2018, 07:02:41 PM
I don’t think the baying mob will be pleased until one of the lads throws a rope up to be honest!
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on April 12, 2018, 07:33:31 PM
I don’t think the baying mob will be pleased until one of the lads throws a rope up to be honest!

You are such an ass. Always wanting to diminish the problems this trial has highlighted and uplift the ‘lads’. You are exactly the sort of fool they are protesting.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Taylor on April 12, 2018, 08:01:14 PM
Willie John and the guy from the supporters club came out and have their views on what they think should happen next.

It's was refreshing to hear some balance and alternate views on the situation given the media has been dominated by the Nazi feminist crew this last month.

Doubt if many others will come out given the bile that was spouted because someone dared have a different opinion.

And before the usual suspects come in I actually think it would be better for everyone concerned if the boys left Ulster for and English or French club
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2018, 08:41:39 PM
I don’t think the baying mob will be pleased until one of the lads throws a rope up to be honest!

You are such an ass. Always wanting to diminish the problems this trial have highlighted and uplift the ‘lads’. You are exactly the sort of fool they are protesting.

I’m an ass?  ;D ;D 
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Asal Mor on April 12, 2018, 09:20:19 PM
I don’t think the baying mob will be pleased until one of the lads throws a rope up to be honest!
+1. Protest aimed at changing the system is fine but predictably it's been more about vilifying and destroying these men who were found not guilty.
They behaved badly but are surely different people now.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: trileacman on April 12, 2018, 09:31:29 PM
Jesus lads, we won, let it go.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Asal Mor on April 12, 2018, 09:46:24 PM
Jesus lads, we won, let it go.
If you google "me too suicide" there have been lots of instances of it. Check out the story of Benny Fredriksson who killed himself before police found the allegations against him were false. The justice system seems unfair against victims and very few would take issue with protests for change but the online vigilante justice system is grossly unfair against the accused.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on April 12, 2018, 09:54:20 PM
Jesus lads, we won, let it go.
If you google "me too suicide" there have been lots of instances of it. Check out the story of Benny Fredriksson who killed himself before police found the allegations against him were false. The justice system seems unfair against victims and very few would take issue with protests for change but the online vigilante justice system is grossly unfair against the accused.

Oh dear. Now #MeToo causes sucides. Not a peep about the systematic sexual assault of women, but you hold up one or two outliers as if they are indicative of anything. I really wonder how you manage to get through a world that is 50% women and still hold these inane viewpoints. Try talking to one about what they’ve experienced rather than thinking you have all the answers in your own head.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: moysider on April 12, 2018, 10:04:36 PM

How anybody could think that there was a winner here is beyond me. And who are 'we'?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: imtommygunn on April 12, 2018, 10:09:29 PM
An absolute mess.

Maybe this has been discussed but did i hear the bank of ireland, a major sponsor, are having a meeting with the ulster ceo about the future of jackson etc?

Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Asal Mor on April 12, 2018, 10:15:32 PM
Jesus lads, we won, let it go.
If you google "me too suicide" there have been lots of instances of it. Check out the story of Benny Fredriksson who killed himself before police found the allegations against him were false. The justice system seems unfair against victims and very few would take issue with protests for change but the online vigilante justice system is grossly unfair against the accused.

Oh dear. Now #MeToo causes sucides. Not a peep about the systematic sexual assault of women, but you hold up one or two outliers as if they are indicative of anything. I really wonder how you manage to get through a world that is 50% women and still hold these inane viewpoints. Try talking to one about what they’ve experienced rather than thinking you have all the answers in your own head.
I'm well aware there is widespread sexual harassment and abuse against women and the MeToo campaign did a lot of good in exposing this and exposing some prolific abusers who had gotten away with it for years, but it has a vindictive edge as these online campaigns tend to and this has been very much to the fore in the i believe her campaign.

I also believe that everyone has a right to defend their good name against an accusation, something that MeToo and similar movements don't allow for.

Your lack of human empathy here is blatant when you dismiss the suicide of an innocent man as an outlier as though that makes it acceptable collateral damage.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2018, 10:24:30 PM
Jesus lads, we won, let it go.
If you google "me too suicide" there have been lots of instances of it. Check out the story of Benny Fredriksson who killed himself before police found the allegations against him were false. The justice system seems unfair against victims and very few would take issue with protests for change but the online vigilante justice system is grossly unfair against the accused.

Oh dear. Now #MeToo causes sucides. Not a peep about the systematic sexual assault of women, but you hold up one or two outliers as if they’d  are indicative of anything. I really wonder how you manage to get through a world that is 50% women and still hold these inane viewpoints. Try talking to one about what they’ve experienced rather than thinking you have all the answers in your own head.

Sure you’ve only one agenda and can’t see both sides! Most off the posters have seen the anguish and torment this girl has been put through and have every sympathy for her. You sir are an ass
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Asal Mor on April 12, 2018, 10:28:39 PM
Jesus lads, we won, let it go.
If you google "me too suicide" there have been lots of instances of it. Check out the story of Benny Fredriksson who killed himself before police found the allegations against him were false. The justice system seems unfair against victims and very few would take issue with protests for change but the online vigilante justice system is grossly unfair against the accused.

Oh dear. Now #MeToo causes sucides. Not a peep about the systematic sexual assault of women, but you hold up one or two outliers as if they’d  are indicative of anything. I really wonder how you manage to get through a world that is 50% women and still hold these inane viewpoints. Try talking to one about what they’ve experienced rather than thinking you have all the answers in your own head.

Sure you’ve only one agenda and can’t see both sides! Most off the posters have seen the anguish and torment this girl has been put through and have every sympathy for her. You sir are an ass
A huge +1 there MR.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: sid waddell on April 12, 2018, 10:29:07 PM

Dara Florence’s version of what she saw in the bedroom flatly contradicted the complainant’s version.
It did no such thing.

It flatly contradicted Jackson.

If you believe Florence, you believe Jackson lied about having vaginal sex with the complainant.
I do, sid I sure do.
But I also said, that what the defence has to say is/was immaterial. It was up to the prosecution to prove its case and they didn't.
You either accept the rule of law or you don't.

(BTW, when you calm down a bit, you will find that Florence contradicted both parties.)
Where did I say I didn't accept the verdict?

What Florence said didn't contradict the complainant in terms of consent at all.

It did contradict Jackson, categorically.

Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: sid waddell on April 12, 2018, 10:32:42 PM
But there's no such a thing as "rape culture", or something.

Quote
A CORK SCHOOL is investigating after a list which said “the girls with the most number of ticks will get raped” was found in a boys’ bathroom.

http://www.thejournal.ie/mallow-school-rape-list-3954562-Apr2018/

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/cork-secondary-school-investigates-rape-list-found-in-boys-toilets-1.3460099?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Feducation%2Fcork-secondary-school-investigates-rape-list-found-in-boys-toilets-1.3460099
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Main Street on April 12, 2018, 10:37:51 PM

Dara Florence’s version of what she saw in the bedroom flatly contradicted the complainant’s version.
It did no such thing.

It flatly contradicted Jackson.

If you believe Florence, you believe Jackson lied about having vaginal sex with the complainant.
I do, sid I sure do.
But I also said, that what the defence has to say is/was immaterial. It was up to the prosecution to prove its case and they didn't.


(BTW, when you calm down a bit, you will find that Florence contradicted both parties.)
Indeed DF's evidence contradicted both accounts,  but a small retriever for the prosecution, when at the end of her testimony she admitted she did not actually witness consent, it was just an impression.

Quote
You either accept the rule of law or you don't.
That's too black and white.
Accept the jury's decision, yes, 100% on the evidence presented in court  but i don't accept the legal procedure, i think this belfast courtroom and legal procedure was a toxic environment. The witness for the prosecution who also happens to be the complainant gets little protection in comparison to what the accused receive. Perhaps she gets treated a little better over the course of the proceedings than a snitch at a mafia mob boss trial, but not much better. I like what Noeline Blackwell the civil rights lawyer had to say about aspects of the imbalances,  eg. that the complainant should get the benefit of  having her own legal counsel, before in preparation for the what may transpire and also during the case with full rights  to intervene on her behalf in court. And that trial should be private, normal enough stuff i'd say.
 
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2018, 10:46:03 PM

Dara Florence’s version of what she saw in the bedroom flatly contradicted the complainant’s version.
It did no such thing.

It flatly contradicted Jackson.

If you believe Florence, you believe Jackson lied about having vaginal sex with the complainant.
I do, sid I sure do.
But I also said, that what the defence has to say is/was immaterial. It was up to the prosecution to prove its case and they didn't.


(BTW, when you calm down a bit, you will find that Florence contradicted both parties.)
Indeed DF's evidence contradicted both accounts,  but a small retriever for the prosecution, when at the end of her testimony she admitted she did not actually witness consent, it was just an impression.

Quote
You either accept the rule of law or you don't.
That's too black and white.
Accept the jury's decision, yes, 100% on the evidence presented in court  but i don't accept the legal procedure, i think this belfast courtroom and legal procedure was a toxic environment. The witness for the prosecution who also happens to be the complainant gets little protection in comparison to what the accused receive. Perhaps she gets treated a little better over the course of the proceedings than a snitch at a mafia mob boss trial, but not much better. I like what Noeline Blackwell the civil rights lawyer had to say about aspects of the imbalances,  eg. that the complainant should get the benefit of  having her own legal counsel, before in preparation for the what may transpire and also during the case with full rights  to intervene on her behalf in court. And that trial should be private, normal enough stuff i'd say.

She had plenty legal advice before the trial and the girl came across as a very intellectual young adult with great responses for the questioning. As for the snitch remark, I’m confused? Did you want her to be visible ? She was under no pressure from the court as no one could see her, and going by the #metoo group she had plenty supporting her
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: moysider on April 12, 2018, 11:26:12 PM

Dara Florence’s version of what she saw in the bedroom flatly contradicted the complainant’s version.
It did no such thing.

It flatly contradicted Jackson.

If you believe Florence, you believe Jackson lied about having vaginal sex with the complainant.
I do, sid I sure do.
But I also said, that what the defence has to say is/was immaterial. It was up to the prosecution to prove its case and they didn't.


(BTW, when you calm down a bit, you will find that Florence contradicted both parties.)
Indeed DF's evidence contradicted both accounts,  but a small retriever for the prosecution, when at the end of her testimony she admitted she did not actually witness consent, it was just an impression.

Quote
You either accept the rule of law or you don't.
That's too black and white.
Accept the jury's decision, yes, 100% on the evidence presented in court  but i don't accept the legal procedure, i think this belfast courtroom and legal procedure was a toxic environment. The witness for the prosecution who also happens to be the complainant gets little protection in comparison to what the accused receive. Perhaps she gets treated a little better over the course of the proceedings than a snitch at a mafia mob boss trial, but not much better. I like what Noeline Blackwell the civil rights lawyer had to say about aspects of the imbalances,  eg. that the complainant should get the benefit of  having her own legal counsel, before in preparation for the what may transpire and also during the case with full rights  to intervene on her behalf in court. And that trial should be private, normal enough stuff i'd say.

She had plenty legal advice before the trial and the girl came across as a very intellectual young adult with great responses for the questioning. As for the snitch remark, I’m confused? Did you want her to be visible ? She was under no pressure from the court as no one could see her, and going by the #metoo group she had plenty supporting her

That is completely inaccurate MR2. Everybody could see her. Her testimony was up on a big screen for everybody to see. Day-trippers went from as far as way as Dublin for a look. She gave her version only able to see Judge, jury and lawyers. On screen everybody could see her. How bad is that.
 The supporters of the accused dominated in the gallery as well and reports indicate that she was ridiculed all through he testimony and the layout of the courtroom appeared to have allowed that to happen without the Judge being aware of it and not clearing the court, which should have happened in those circumstances. It was 3/1 on the night and 4/1 in court.
 Not having her own legal council present is an issue too. Defence council played a blinder and bullied the judge over the admissibility of some evidence. I'm still intrigued as to whom the blood stains came from that were from a third party? How could that not be relevant?
 The girl got justice but I cant help thinking about animals that hop around the outback in Australia.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: sid waddell on April 13, 2018, 12:19:26 AM
She was named in court, too.

So her "anonymity" meant very little.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Lar Naparka on April 13, 2018, 01:35:50 AM

Dara Florence’s version of what she saw in the bedroom flatly contradicted the complainant’s version.
It did no such thing.

It flatly contradicted Jackson.

If you believe Florence, you believe Jackson lied about having vaginal sex with the complainant.
I do, sid I sure do.
But I also said, that what the defence has to say is/was immaterial. It was up to the prosecution to prove its case and they didn't.


(BTW, when you calm down a bit, you will find that Florence contradicted both parties.)
Indeed DF's evidence contradicted both accounts,  but a small retriever for the prosecution, when at the end of her testimony she admitted she did not actually witness consent, it was just an impression.

Quote
You either accept the rule of law or you don't.
That's too black and white.
Accept the jury's decision, yes, 100% on the evidence presented in court  but i don't accept the legal procedure, i think this belfast courtroom and legal procedure was a toxic environment. The witness for the prosecution who also happens to be the complainant gets little protection in comparison to what the accused receive. Perhaps she gets treated a little better over the course of the proceedings than a snitch at a mafia mob boss trial, but not much better. I like what Noeline Blackwell the civil rights lawyer had to say about aspects of the imbalances,  eg. that the complainant should get the benefit of  having her own legal counsel, before in preparation for the what may transpire and also during the case with full rights  to intervene on her behalf in court. And that trial should be private, normal enough stuff i'd say.
I agree 100% with that. But that is a side issue for me. I am concentrating on the court's verdict. It's may or may not have resulted in a different verdict of the legal procedures were different but the opinion of the jury, after hearing all the evidence presented to them was that the prosecution had not proved its case and therefore, the defendants were innocent of the charges laid against them, in a legal sense at any rate.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: David McKeown on April 13, 2018, 03:06:46 AM

Dara Florence’s version of what she saw in the bedroom flatly contradicted the complainant’s version.
It did no such thing.

It flatly contradicted Jackson.

If you believe Florence, you believe Jackson lied about having vaginal sex with the complainant.
I do, sid I sure do.
But I also said, that what the defence has to say is/was immaterial. It was up to the prosecution to prove its case and they didn't.


(BTW, when you calm down a bit, you will find that Florence contradicted both parties.)
Indeed DF's evidence contradicted both accounts,  but a small retriever for the prosecution, when at the end of her testimony she admitted she did not actually witness consent, it was just an impression.

Quote
You either accept the rule of law or you don't.
That's too black and white.
Accept the jury's decision, yes, 100% on the evidence presented in court  but i don't accept the legal procedure, i think this belfast courtroom and legal procedure was a toxic environment. The witness for the prosecution who also happens to be the complainant gets little protection in comparison to what the accused receive. Perhaps she gets treated a little better over the course of the proceedings than a snitch at a mafia mob boss trial, but not much better. I like what Noeline Blackwell the civil rights lawyer had to say about aspects of the imbalances,  eg. that the complainant should get the benefit of  having her own legal counsel, before in preparation for the what may transpire and also during the case with full rights  to intervene on her behalf in court. And that trial should be private, normal enough stuff i'd say.

What exactly would be the benefit of having her own legal counsel?  I'm not opposed to the idea I'm just not sure I see much benefit to it. In what way were the procedures toxic? 

As for private trials whilst I can see some benefit there are two massive drawbacks. 1. They act as very little deterrent to other would be rapists 2. For justice to be done it must be seen to be done. I dread to think how the outcome of this case would be approached on social media has it taken place behind closed doors. The allegations of corruption etc would have been rife.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Farrandeelin on April 13, 2018, 08:42:07 AM
I don’t think the baying mob will be pleased until one of the lads throws a rope up to be honest!

You are such an ass. Always wanting to diminish the problems this trial has highlighted and uplift the ‘lads’. You are exactly the sort of fool they are protesting.

Careful now. Sid will be on here soon complaining that you called MR2 an animal any minute...
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Franko on April 13, 2018, 08:44:45 AM
But there's no such a thing as "rape culture", or something.

Quote
A CORK SCHOOL is investigating after a list which said “the girls with the most number of ticks will get raped” was found in a boys’ bathroom.

http://www.thejournal.ie/mallow-school-rape-list-3954562-Apr2018/

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/cork-secondary-school-investigates-rape-list-found-in-boys-toilets-1.3460099?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Feducation%2Fcork-secondary-school-investigates-rape-list-found-in-boys-toilets-1.3460099

I know you think you think you've struck evidential gold with this one but the fact that this story is national news probably disproves your point.

If this was ingrained 'culture' as you like to point out, nobody would bat an eyelid.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AQMP on April 13, 2018, 09:03:48 AM
She was named in court, too.

So her "anonymity" meant very little.

This is true, then from the court to Twitter and FB in a few seconds.  You don't have to dig very far to find out her name and background.  I'm sure the majority of posters here are aware of her name at the very least, you just won't find it in the papers or mentioned on TV.  I think this is an issue for the legal process to look at.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2018, 09:23:53 AM
She was named in court, too.

So her "anonymity" meant very little.

This is true, then from the court to Twitter and FB in a few seconds.  You don't have to dig very far to find out her name and background.  I'm sure the majority of posters here are aware of her name at the very least, you just won't find it in the papers or mentioned on TV.  I think this is an issue for the legal process to look at.

My point is her anonymity means her name isnt in the papers and on tv, her history isnt being put in the daily rags and probably a good thing for her depending on what skeletons that may or may not be in her cupboard..

Having your name dragged through the papers I'm sure can be tough, and when you have been found not guilty then even tougher... I'm surprised this girl, having already been through it and knows what to expect and with the #metoo crowd behind her doesnt go for a civil case against them..

I mean if you think that most people know who she is then why not go do that route any ways?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: David McKeown on April 13, 2018, 09:56:36 AM
She was named in court, too.

So her "anonymity" meant very little.

This is true, then from the court to Twitter and FB in a few seconds.  You don't have to dig very far to find out her name and background.  I'm sure the majority of posters here are aware of her name at the very least, you just won't find it in the papers or mentioned on TV.  I think this is an issue for the legal process to look at.

They are. What you describe is a criminal offence and people have been At least questioned over it
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: David McKeown on April 13, 2018, 10:07:13 AM

Dara Florence’s version of what she saw in the bedroom flatly contradicted the complainant’s version.
It did no such thing.

It flatly contradicted Jackson.

If you believe Florence, you believe Jackson lied about having vaginal sex with the complainant.
I do, sid I sure do.
But I also said, that what the defence has to say is/was immaterial. It was up to the prosecution to prove its case and they didn't.


(BTW, when you calm down a bit, you will find that Florence contradicted both parties.)
Indeed DF's evidence contradicted both accounts,  but a small retriever for the prosecution, when at the end of her testimony she admitted she did not actually witness consent, it was just an impression.

Quote
You either accept the rule of law or you don't.
That's too black and white.
Accept the jury's decision, yes, 100% on the evidence presented in court  but i don't accept the legal procedure, i think this belfast courtroom and legal procedure was a toxic environment. The witness for the prosecution who also happens to be the complainant gets little protection in comparison to what the accused receive. Perhaps she gets treated a little better over the course of the proceedings than a snitch at a mafia mob boss trial, but not much better. I like what Noeline Blackwell the civil rights lawyer had to say about aspects of the imbalances,  eg. that the complainant should get the benefit of  having her own legal counsel, before in preparation for the what may transpire and also during the case with full rights  to intervene on her behalf in court. And that trial should be private, normal enough stuff i'd say.

She had plenty legal advice before the trial and the girl came across as a very intellectual young adult with great responses for the questioning. As for the snitch remark, I’m confused? Did you want her to be visible ? She was under no pressure from the court as no one could see her, and going by the #metoo group she had plenty supporting her

That is completely inaccurate MR2. Everybody could see her. Her testimony was up on a big screen for everybody to see. Day-trippers went from as far as way as Dublin for a look. She gave her version only able to see Judge, jury and lawyers. On screen everybody could see her. How bad is that.
 The supporters of the accused dominated in the gallery as well and reports indicate that she was ridiculed all through he testimony and the layout of the courtroom appeared to have allowed that to happen without the Judge being aware of it and not clearing the court, which should have happened in those circumstances. It was 3/1 on the night and 4/1 in court.
 Not having her own legal council present is an issue too. Defence council played a blinder and bullied the judge over the admissibility of some evidence. I'm still intrigued as to whom the blood stains came from that were from a third party? How could that not be relevant?
 The girl got justice but I cant help thinking about animals that hop around the outback in Australia.

Bullied the judge?  Nonsense and dangerous nonsense at that. Have you any grounds for suggesting that? The prosecution weren't able or weren't going to say who's blood it was and the defence don't have to provide any explanation for irrelevant 'evidence'. The law is clear and with good reason if the prejudicial effect of potential evidence outweighs its probabative value then it should be excluded. Juries shouldn't engage in speculation and the decision to exclude the evidence was entirely correct.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AQMP on April 13, 2018, 10:32:16 AM

Dara Florence’s version of what she saw in the bedroom flatly contradicted the complainant’s version.
It did no such thing.

It flatly contradicted Jackson.

If you believe Florence, you believe Jackson lied about having vaginal sex with the complainant.
I do, sid I sure do.
But I also said, that what the defence has to say is/was immaterial. It was up to the prosecution to prove its case and they didn't.


(BTW, when you calm down a bit, you will find that Florence contradicted both parties.)
Indeed DF's evidence contradicted both accounts,  but a small retriever for the prosecution, when at the end of her testimony she admitted she did not actually witness consent, it was just an impression.

Quote
You either accept the rule of law or you don't.
That's too black and white.
Accept the jury's decision, yes, 100% on the evidence presented in court  but i don't accept the legal procedure, i think this belfast courtroom and legal procedure was a toxic environment. The witness for the prosecution who also happens to be the complainant gets little protection in comparison to what the accused receive. Perhaps she gets treated a little better over the course of the proceedings than a snitch at a mafia mob boss trial, but not much better. I like what Noeline Blackwell the civil rights lawyer had to say about aspects of the imbalances,  eg. that the complainant should get the benefit of  having her own legal counsel, before in preparation for the what may transpire and also during the case with full rights  to intervene on her behalf in court. And that trial should be private, normal enough stuff i'd say.

She had plenty legal advice before the trial and the girl came across as a very intellectual young adult with great responses for the questioning. As for the snitch remark, I’m confused? Did you want her to be visible ? She was under no pressure from the court as no one could see her, and going by the #metoo group she had plenty supporting her

That is completely inaccurate MR2. Everybody could see her. Her testimony was up on a big screen for everybody to see. Day-trippers went from as far as way as Dublin for a look. She gave her version only able to see Judge, jury and lawyers. On screen everybody could see her. How bad is that.
 The supporters of the accused dominated in the gallery as well and reports indicate that she was ridiculed all through he testimony and the layout of the courtroom appeared to have allowed that to happen without the Judge being aware of it and not clearing the court, which should have happened in those circumstances. It was 3/1 on the night and 4/1 in court.
 Not having her own legal council present is an issue too. Defence council played a blinder and bullied the judge over the admissibility of some evidence. I'm still intrigued as to whom the blood stains came from that were from a third party? How could that not be relevant?
 The girl got justice but I cant help thinking about animals that hop around the outback in Australia.

Bullied the judge?  Nonsense and dangerous nonsense at that. Have you any grounds for suggesting that? The prosecution weren't able or weren't going to say who's blood it was and the defence don't have to provide any explanation for irrelevant 'evidence'. The law is clear and with good reason if the prejudicial effect of potential evidence outweighs its probabative value then it should be excluded. Juries shouldn't engage in speculation and the decision to exclude the evidence was entirely correct.

As you my have guessed, my leanings in this trial were slightly towards the complainant, but I'm with DMK here.  The blood wasn't hers and while it might be interesting to speculate whose it was and how it got there, in terms of this trial that would have added nothing.  Judging by the number of people in and out of Paddy's big bed there were multiple potential sources. 

All it tells us is that the blood either got there after the night in question, or if it was there before then it could mean that PJ doesn't wash his sheets too often! - Not unknown in a 24 year old single male!
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AQMP on April 13, 2018, 10:35:31 AM
She was named in court, too.

So her "anonymity" meant very little.

This is true, then from the court to Twitter and FB in a few seconds.  You don't have to dig very far to find out her name and background.  I'm sure the majority of posters here are aware of her name at the very least, you just won't find it in the papers or mentioned on TV.  I think this is an issue for the legal process to look at.

They are. What you describe is a criminal offence and people have been At least questioned over it

That's true, we'll wait and see if there is any action taken over those tweets.  Does that come under contempt of court David??
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AQMP on April 13, 2018, 11:02:37 AM
Sure what would you expect from tree hugging, sandal wearing Guardianistas?? ;)

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/13/rugby-misogynists-public-support

Spare me these sob stories about the rugby misogynists - Suzanne Moore

How do legends have sex, and who do they have it with? Perhaps it’s none of my business, except when these things become public knowledge, it’s because they are exposed in court.

That word “legends” sticks in my mind. Or rather in my craw. It was in one of the WhatsApp messages read out in court in the Belfast trial of the “star rugby players”, Paddy Jackson and Stuart Olding, accused of rape and unanimously found not guilty last month.

The messages discussing what had happened the night before, for which they later apologised, talked of “shaggers”, of “Belfast sluts”, of “pumping a bird” and “spit-roasting”. Such technical terms had to be explained by barristers to the judge and jury, but somehow it was the self-glorifying “Why are we are such legends?” in the players’ WhatsApp group that got me. Legends indeed.

I am not sure this is the word they would be using now. This was a high-profile trial in which the woman who had accused them of rape had her bloodied knickers passed around a courtroom, in which the taxi driver who took her home told of her sobbing, and her distressed texts were also read out. Since the men’s acquittal further details have been released, of a pornographic video shared with Olding the day after the night in question.

The jury unanimously acquitted these men of rape. Their friends Blane McIlroy and Rory Harrison were unanimously found not guilty of indecent exposure and of perverting the course of justice. None of these men did anything illegal. Yet they are now fighting in a different court: the court of public opinion. The widespread disgust at the way that they spoke about the woman who they had sex with clings to them. It is the nature of what these young men said to each other that has appalled so many people and led to the creation of the hashtag #IBelieveHer.

This week a full-page advertisement has been taken out in the Belfast Telegraph by supporters of Jackson and Olding, asking that their suspension from Ulster and Ireland rugby duties be lifted. The advertisement reads: “As Ulster and Irish rugby fans we want these innocent men reinstated and rightly allowed to resume their roles … The IRFU [Irish Rugby Football Union] should take note of the silent majority and not bow to the court of social media.”

One wonders about the kind of sex these premier athletes actually want. This week Otto Putland, a swimmer who represented Wales at the Commonwealth Games, was also cleared of rape at Cardiff crown court. He had denied forcing himself on a woman after she had consensual sex with his friend, the Olympic swimmer Ieuan Lloyd.

Does male bonding have to involve the seeming humiliation of women, as it does in some American college fraternities? Is it always a kind of performance that needs to be watched by their mates? In the Belfast trial where a slang expert was brought in to explain “spit–roasting”, the woman spoke of one player penetrating her from behind while another player walked in naked, holding his penis, looking to join in.

Footballer Ched Evans, unanimously cleared of rape in 2016, had sex with a woman in a hotel room following a night out in Rhyl, immediately after his friend Clayton McDonald had had sex with her. Evans left via a fire exit without speaking to the woman. His younger brother and another man watched the encounter through a window.

So is this is the ultimate in hyper-masculine male bonding? What is happening when these young sportsmen who know each other’s bodies, whose business is their bodies, choose to enact their sexual desires in this way?

Of course, there is no reason why such sexual activity should not be consensual, and a lot of pornography indicates that such encounters are every woman’s fantasy. Perhaps, though, in such scenarios, the women is the vessel through which these young guys communicate their power to each other?

These men are not rapists, but they are guilty of  vile misogyny. None of them presumably has difficulty getting women, who flock to them. To bring Jackson and Olding back on to the rugby field now, as their supporters are demanding, would appear to endorse what looks like degrading behaviour. This would hardly be the first time such a thing has happened. But how do we teach the boys who admire and emulate sportsmen to respect women if this is how their role models conduct themselves? Talking after his acquittal about the risks of mixing alcohol and sex, Ched Evans said he had been “young” and “stupid” at the time.

Is behaviour such as Jackson’s and Olding’s – which some seem willing to write off as high jinks, high-testosterone pranks – in fact best understood as being meant for each other? These men may need an audience for their performances and then to congratulate each other the next day. But is this really living the dream?

For that dream, as we have seen, can turn into a nightmare for everyone involved, while a woman can look from the outside as if she is a disposable conduit, not a person in her own right. This is where we still are. And yet there are voices telling us to think about these poor innocent lads whose reputations are ruined. It is shameful.

Misogyny is not a crime, clearly, but spare me the suffering of these rugby legends. For them to be portrayed as victims, now? That is truly unbelievable.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: David McKeown on April 13, 2018, 11:49:34 AM
She was named in court, too.

So her "anonymity" meant very little.

This is true, then from the court to Twitter and FB in a few seconds.  You don't have to dig very far to find out her name and background.  I'm sure the majority of posters here are aware of her name at the very least, you just won't find it in the papers or mentioned on TV.  I think this is an issue for the legal process to look at.

They are. What you describe is a criminal offence and people have been At least questioned over it

That's true, we'll wait and see if there is any action taken over those tweets.  Does that come under contempt of court David??

It could amount to it but it's an actual criminal offence to identify the claimant in a sexual offence.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2018, 11:56:49 AM
Sure what would you expect from tree hugging, sandal wearing Guardianistas?? ;)

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/13/rugby-misogynists-public-support

Spare me these sob stories about the rugby misogynists - Suzanne Moore

How do legends have sex, and who do they have it with? Perhaps it’s none of my business, except when these things become public knowledge, it’s because they are exposed in court.

That word “legends” sticks in my mind. Or rather in my craw. It was in one of the WhatsApp messages read out in court in the Belfast trial of the “star rugby players”, Paddy Jackson and Stuart Olding, accused of rape and unanimously found not guilty last month.

The messages discussing what had happened the night before, for which they later apologised, talked of “shaggers”, of “Belfast sluts”, of “pumping a bird” and “spit-roasting”. Such technical terms had to be explained by barristers to the judge and jury, but somehow it was the self-glorifying “Why are we are such legends?” in the players’ WhatsApp group that got me. Legends indeed.

I am not sure this is the word they would be using now. This was a high-profile trial in which the woman who had accused them of rape had her bloodied knickers passed around a courtroom, in which the taxi driver who took her home told of her sobbing, and her distressed texts were also read out. Since the men’s acquittal further details have been released, of a pornographic video shared with Olding the day after the night in question.

The jury unanimously acquitted these men of rape. Their friends Blane McIlroy and Rory Harrison were unanimously found not guilty of indecent exposure and of perverting the course of justice. None of these men did anything illegal. Yet they are now fighting in a different court: the court of public opinion. The widespread disgust at the way that they spoke about the woman who they had sex with clings to them. It is the nature of what these young men said to each other that has appalled so many people and led to the creation of the hashtag #IBelieveHer.

This week a full-page advertisement has been taken out in the Belfast Telegraph by supporters of Jackson and Olding, asking that their suspension from Ulster and Ireland rugby duties be lifted. The advertisement reads: “As Ulster and Irish rugby fans we want these innocent men reinstated and rightly allowed to resume their roles … The IRFU [Irish Rugby Football Union] should take note of the silent majority and not bow to the court of social media.”

One wonders about the kind of sex these premier athletes actually want. This week Otto Putland, a swimmer who represented Wales at the Commonwealth Games, was also cleared of rape at Cardiff crown court. He had denied forcing himself on a woman after she had consensual sex with his friend, the Olympic swimmer Ieuan Lloyd.

Does male bonding have to involve the seeming humiliation of women, as it does in some American college fraternities? Is it always a kind of performance that needs to be watched by their mates? In the Belfast trial where a slang expert was brought in to explain “spit–roasting”, the woman spoke of one player penetrating her from behind while another player walked in naked, holding his penis, looking to join in.

Footballer Ched Evans, unanimously cleared of rape in 2016, had sex with a woman in a hotel room following a night out in Rhyl, immediately after his friend Clayton McDonald had had sex with her. Evans left via a fire exit without speaking to the woman. His younger brother and another man watched the encounter through a window.

So is this is the ultimate in hyper-masculine male bonding? What is happening when these young sportsmen who know each other’s bodies, whose business is their bodies, choose to enact their sexual desires in this way?

Of course, there is no reason why such sexual activity should not be consensual, and a lot of pornography indicates that such encounters are every woman’s fantasy. Perhaps, though, in such scenarios, the women is the vessel through which these young guys communicate their power to each other?

These men are not rapists, but they are guilty of  vile misogyny. None of them presumably has difficulty getting women, who flock to them. To bring Jackson and Olding back on to the rugby field now, as their supporters are demanding, would appear to endorse what looks like degrading behaviour. This would hardly be the first time such a thing has happened. But how do we teach the boys who admire and emulate sportsmen to respect women if this is how their role models conduct themselves? Talking after his acquittal about the risks of mixing alcohol and sex, Ched Evans said he had been “young” and “stupid” at the time.

Is behaviour such as Jackson’s and Olding’s – which some seem willing to write off as high jinks, high-testosterone pranks – in fact best understood as being meant for each other? These men may need an audience for their performances and then to congratulate each other the next day. But is this really living the dream?

For that dream, as we have seen, can turn into a nightmare for everyone involved, while a woman can look from the outside as if she is a disposable conduit, not a person in her own right. This is where we still are. And yet there are voices telling us to think about these poor innocent lads whose reputations are ruined. It is shameful.

Misogyny is not a crime, clearly, but spare me the suffering of these rugby legends. For them to be portrayed as victims, now? That is truly unbelievable.

Jesus! Spare me the bullshit!!!
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: sid waddell on April 13, 2018, 12:26:49 PM
But there's no such a thing as "rape culture", or something.

Quote
A CORK SCHOOL is investigating after a list which said “the girls with the most number of ticks will get raped” was found in a boys’ bathroom.

http://www.thejournal.ie/mallow-school-rape-list-3954562-Apr2018/

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/cork-secondary-school-investigates-rape-list-found-in-boys-toilets-1.3460099?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Feducation%2Fcork-secondary-school-investigates-rape-list-found-in-boys-toilets-1.3460099

I know you think you think you've struck evidential gold with this one but the fact that this story is national news probably disproves your point.

If this was ingrained 'culture' as you like to point out, nobody would bat an eyelid.

You have your head stuck further down in the sand than a victim of Japanese torture in World War II if you think this sort of stuff is only happening in one school.

Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: moysider on April 13, 2018, 02:50:15 PM

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/13/rugby-misogynists-public-support

Good article that.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 13, 2018, 03:07:54 PM

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/13/rugby-misogynists-public-support

Good article that.

"These men are not rapists, but they are guilty of  vile misogyny. None of them presumably has difficulty getting women, who flock to them. To bring Jackson and Olding back on to the rugby field now, as their supporters are demanding, would appear to endorse what looks like degrading behaviour."
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AQMP on April 13, 2018, 03:10:52 PM

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/13/rugby-misogynists-public-support

Good article that.

One thing it does suggest to me is that if Jackson and Olding are offered a game in England, this case will follow them.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2018, 03:35:02 PM

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/13/rugby-misogynists-public-support

Good article that.

One thing it does suggest to me is that if Jackson and Olding are offered a game in England, this case will follow them.

the mob would follow
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Franko on April 13, 2018, 03:37:21 PM
But there's no such a thing as "rape culture", or something.

Quote
A CORK SCHOOL is investigating after a list which said “the girls with the most number of ticks will get raped” was found in a boys’ bathroom.

http://www.thejournal.ie/mallow-school-rape-list-3954562-Apr2018/

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/cork-secondary-school-investigates-rape-list-found-in-boys-toilets-1.3460099?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Feducation%2Fcork-secondary-school-investigates-rape-list-found-in-boys-toilets-1.3460099

I know you think you think you've struck evidential gold with this one but the fact that this story is national news probably disproves your point.

If this was ingrained 'culture' as you like to point out, nobody would bat an eyelid.

You have your head stuck further down in the sand than a victim of Japanese torture in World War II if you think this sort of stuff is only happening in one school.

I'd suggest you throw up some proof of this or I'm afraid it's just more speculation.

Between my own schooling, that of my family and extended family, a great many friends and relations who are teachers and coaching kids myself after school, I've never once heard of anything even remotely like this before.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: sid waddell on April 13, 2018, 03:54:50 PM
But there's no such a thing as "rape culture", or something.

Quote
A CORK SCHOOL is investigating after a list which said “the girls with the most number of ticks will get raped” was found in a boys’ bathroom.

http://www.thejournal.ie/mallow-school-rape-list-3954562-Apr2018/

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/cork-secondary-school-investigates-rape-list-found-in-boys-toilets-1.3460099?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Feducation%2Fcork-secondary-school-investigates-rape-list-found-in-boys-toilets-1.3460099

I know you think you think you've struck evidential gold with this one but the fact that this story is national news probably disproves your point.

If this was ingrained 'culture' as you like to point out, nobody would bat an eyelid.

You have your head stuck further down in the sand than a victim of Japanese torture in World War II if you think this sort of stuff is only happening in one school.

I'd suggest you throw up some proof of this or I'm afraid it's just more speculation.

Between my own schooling, that of my family and extended family, a great many friends and relations who are teachers and coaching kids myself after school, I've never once heard of anything even remotely like this before.

21% of Irish people believe rape is justifiable in some circumstances.

That's not a statistic I've dreamt up, it's what was found by Eurobarometer, which is an official measure of public opinion by the EU.

But sure dismiss that all you want.

https://ec.europa.eu/ireland/news/21-de-mhuintir-na-h%C3%A9ireann-den-tuairim-go-bhfuil-caidreamh-colla%C3%AD-gan-toili%C3%BA-ceart-go-leor-i_en
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Mourne Red on April 13, 2018, 03:57:20 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-43756181

On a lighter note I think we can all laugh at the line 'Rugby is the peoples game' in Ireland now...
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: thebigfella on April 13, 2018, 04:05:11 PM
But there's no such a thing as "rape culture", or something.

Quote
A CORK SCHOOL is investigating after a list which said “the girls with the most number of ticks will get raped” was found in a boys’ bathroom.

http://www.thejournal.ie/mallow-school-rape-list-3954562-Apr2018/

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/cork-secondary-school-investigates-rape-list-found-in-boys-toilets-1.3460099?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Feducation%2Fcork-secondary-school-investigates-rape-list-found-in-boys-toilets-1.3460099

I know you think you think you've struck evidential gold with this one but the fact that this story is national news probably disproves your point.

If this was ingrained 'culture' as you like to point out, nobody would bat an eyelid.

You have your head stuck further down in the sand than a victim of Japanese torture in World War II if you think this sort of stuff is only happening in one school.

I'd suggest you throw up some proof of this or I'm afraid it's just more speculation.

Between my own schooling, that of my family and extended family, a great many friends and relations who are teachers and coaching kids myself after school, I've never once heard of anything even remotely like this before.

21% of Irish people believe rape is justifiable in some circumstances.

That's not a statistic I've dreamt up, it's what was found by Eurobarometer, which is an official measure of public opinion by the EU.

But sure dismiss that all you want.

https://ec.europa.eu/ireland/news/21-de-mhuintir-na-h%C3%A9ireann-den-tuairim-go-bhfuil-caidreamh-colla%C3%AD-gan-toili%C3%BA-ceart-go-leor-i_en

That should go in the WTF thread
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AQMP on April 13, 2018, 04:08:10 PM

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/13/rugby-misogynists-public-support

Good article that.

One thing it does suggest to me is that if Jackson and Olding are offered a game in England, this case will follow them.

the mob would follow

Or maybe it would be more accurate to say they're already waiting!
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on April 13, 2018, 04:13:55 PM

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/13/rugby-misogynists-public-support

Good article that.

One thing it does suggest to me is that if Jackson and Olding are offered a game in England, this case will follow them.

the mob would follow

Or maybe it would be more accurate to say they're already waiting!

It seems like any dissent from a verdict that neither proclaims the defendants’ innocence and is the product of a system that produces a minuscule amount of convictions for rape versus actual rapes committed is a ‘mob’ in some peoples’ eyes.

I think the sad fact that people like MR2 don’t realise is that is is people like him that are the mob in this equation and not those getting off their arses and trying to change the system and the perception of rape victims.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Asal Mor on April 13, 2018, 04:28:08 PM
Holding a certain opinion doesn't make someone part of a mob. Trying to run people who haven't been convicted of anything out of their job and ruin their reputation does. Hounding the likes of PJ, George Hook, Rory Best, Donal Og as these groups consistently have, does nothing to change the system and only alienates people from their cause.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2018, 04:29:40 PM

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/13/rugby-misogynists-public-support

Good article that.

One thing it does suggest to me is that if Jackson and Olding are offered a game in England, this case will follow them.

the mob would follow

Or maybe it would be more accurate to say they're already waiting!

It seems like any dissent from a verdict that neither proclaims the defendants’ innocence and is the product of a system that produces a minuscule amount of convictions for rape versus actual rapes committed is a ‘mob’ in some peoples’ eyes.

I think the sad fact that people like MR2 don’t realise is that is is people like him that are the mob in this equation and not those getting off their arses and trying to change the system and the perception of rape victims.

I dont have to get off my arse on this one, plenty people out their trying to change the world as they see fit.. what i do see is plenty of fireside lawyers making up their own judgement on things that they know nothing about (in reality) I'll take my advice from someone who has a degree in law, not some bogman from the west of Ireland.

Still waiting on your qualifications BTW
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AQMP on April 13, 2018, 04:45:43 PM
Holding a certain opinion doesn't make someone part of a mob. Trying to run people who haven't been convicted of anything out of their job and ruin their reputation does. Hounding the likes of PJ, George Hook, Rory Best, Donal Og as these groups consistently have, does nothing to change the system and only alienates people from their cause.

"I believe her" is an opinion - whether you agree with it or not. 

Just because they've been found not guilty doesn't mean their reputation is intact.  The point now is that it isn't.  The opinion "They're guilty of being scumbags/arseholes/pricks but that's not a crime" is fairly current.  That's what Ulster Rugby and the IRFU have to deal with.  Actually in PR terms the focus is slowly moving on to Ulster Rugby, but I'm sure UR is well aware of that.

What the "let the lads play" EggChasingNazis/mob ;) don't take into account is that in business/sponsorship terms "Paddy Jackson" is a damaged brand and that can't be allowed to reflect onto UR, Bank of Ireland, Kingspan etc.  It's now by how much the morality affects the money that will determine his future.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Asal Mor on April 13, 2018, 05:00:03 PM
Well put and I accept all of that. They're entitled to their opinion but actively trying to stop him getting on with life by taking out ads in papers and signing online petitions are the actions of a mob. They're entitled to believe her but they don't know for sure either that she's telling the truth and a court found him not guilty so he should be allowed to get on with his life as best he can.  The stain will always be there and he has lost a huge amount already in every way. If the i believe her crew focused their efforts on changing the system to improve it for alleged victims, it would be impossible to be sceptical of their motives but they are coming across as vindictive vigilantes.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 13, 2018, 05:02:25 PM
Well put and I accept all of that. They're entitled to their opinion but actively trying to stop him getting on with life by taking out ads in papers and signing online petitions are the actions of a mob. They're entitled to believe her but they don't know for sure either that she's telling the truth and a court found him not guilty so he should be allowed to get on with his life as best he can.  The stain will always be there and he has lost a huge amount already in every way. If the i believe her crew focused their efforts on changing the system to improve it for alleged victims, it would be impossible to be sceptical of their motives but they are coming across as vindictive vigilantes.

A bit of Shakespeare

After Cassio gets into a drunken brawl and loses his position as Othello's officer, he worries about the loss of his "reputation," which is tied up in his military service and his public behavior. Cassio feels that, without his "reputation" as an upstanding soldier, he's nothing more than a "beast."



CASSIO
Reputation, reputation, reputation! O, I have 
lost my reputation! I have lost the immortal part of
myself, and what remains is bestial. My reputation,
Iago, my reputation! (2.3.281-284)

Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: thebuzz on April 13, 2018, 05:10:09 PM
Well put and I accept all of that. They're entitled to their opinion but actively trying to stop him getting on with life by taking out ads in papers and signing online petitions are the actions of a mob. They're entitled to believe her but they don't know for sure either that she's telling the truth and a court found him not guilty so he should be allowed to get on with his life as best he can.  The stain will always be there and he has lost a huge amount already in every way. If the i believe her crew focused their efforts on changing the system to improve it for alleged victims, it would be impossible to be sceptical of their motives but they are coming across as vindictive vigilantes.

Also well put.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AQMP on April 13, 2018, 05:12:18 PM
Well put and I accept all of that. They're entitled to their opinion but actively trying to stop him getting on with life by taking out ads in papers and signing online petitions are the actions of a mob. They're entitled to believe her but they don't know for sure either that she's telling the truth and a court found him not guilty so he should be allowed to get on with his life as best he can.  The stain will always be there and he has lost a huge amount already in every way. If the i believe her crew focused their efforts on changing the system to improve it for alleged victims, it would be impossible to be sceptical of their motives but they are coming across as vindictive vigilantes.

What we seem to have are two opposing mobs...never a good recipe!
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Asal Mor on April 13, 2018, 05:31:17 PM
Well put and I accept all of that. They're entitled to their opinion but actively trying to stop him getting on with life by taking out ads in papers and signing online petitions are the actions of a mob. They're entitled to believe her but they don't know for sure either that she's telling the truth and a court found him not guilty so he should be allowed to get on with his life as best he can.  The stain will always be there and he has lost a huge amount already in every way. If the i believe her crew focused their efforts on changing the system to improve it for alleged victims, it would be impossible to be sceptical of their motives but they are coming across as vindictive vigilantes.

Also well put.
Thanks buzz.

Seafoid I love that quote(first time I'd heard it - i did Macbeth) and Id like to reply with some Shakespeare of my own but sadly those 4 or 5 quotations I had memorised for my Leaving Cert English seem to have been deleted.
I'll be as unoriginal as possible and quote JC to sum up my feelings. Not the great Joe Canning but the pretender who came before him.
"Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone"
I wonder if people who sign online petitions and take out ads in newspapers calling for someone to be sacked reflect on their own worst deeds and private messages before they do so and how they'd be judged if those deeds and messages were public knowledge.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AQMP on April 13, 2018, 05:37:21 PM
Macbeth Act 1 Scene 1

Witch Harrison: "When shall we three four meet again, in thunder, lightning or in Soul Food?"
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Asal Mor on April 13, 2018, 05:41:05 PM
Macbeth Act 1 Scene 1

Witch Harrison: "When shall we three four meet again, in thunder, lightning or in Soul Food?"
;D Excellent.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 13, 2018, 05:47:25 PM
This case touched a chord all over Ireland and it seems amongst  UK feminists too. Big questions over the running of rape cases and sexual relations and the values of young soi disant legends.

Casting the firet stone is off the ball because Ulster matches are going to be targeted regardless. Political issues need momen tum and this one has plenty of it.
Social media mobs need a victim too. PJ should have perhaps played it differently post verdict. Maybe it's a Greek tragedy too.
This is senior hurling.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2018, 05:58:56 PM
Holding a certain opinion doesn't make someone part of a mob. Trying to run people who haven't been convicted of anything out of their job and ruin their reputation does. Hounding the likes of PJ, George Hook, Rory Best, Donal Og as these groups consistently have, does nothing to change the system and only alienates people from their cause.

"I believe her" is an opinion - whether you agree with it or not. 

Just because they've been found not guilty doesn't mean their reputation is intact.  The point now is that it isn't.  The opinion "They're guilty of being scumbags/arseholes/pricks but that's not a crime" is fairly current.  That's what Ulster Rugby and the IRFU have to deal with.  Actually in PR terms the focus is slowly moving on to Ulster Rugby, but I'm sure UR is well aware of that.

What the "let the lads play" EggChasingNazis/mob ;) don't take into account is that in business/sponsorship terms "Paddy Jackson" is a damaged brand and that can't be allowed to reflect onto UR, Bank of Ireland, Kingspan etc.  It's now by how much the morality affects the money that will determine his future.

I’d be questioning the Bank of Ireland on their use of words in their statement, morals and values I think they put in their statement, I’m sure a large group of ex home owners would have a different view on their take of morals and values!

As for messages on phones and porn being sent via gifs and videos that’s happening at an alarming rate. Never like this in my day but it’s there.. so if the bank or Kingspan have an issue with it then they should audit their own employees to gather a better understanding of it
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: imtommygunn on April 13, 2018, 07:14:29 PM
It's about brand and public eye. What their employees are doing outside their work has got nothing to do with anything. If employee joe bloggs 1 sent a porno to employee joe bloggs 2 then what do we know about it.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2018, 08:55:48 PM
It's about brand and public eye. What their employees are doing outside their work has got nothing to do with anything. If employee joe bloggs 1 sent a porno to employee joe bloggs 2 then what do we know about it.

The family stand is full tonight
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: imtommygunn on April 13, 2018, 09:06:57 PM
What position is paddy jackson playing though?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2018, 09:07:45 PM
What position is paddy jackson playing though?

Think he’s playing backs!
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: imtommygunn on April 13, 2018, 09:13:15 PM
People may stop going or they may not.... time will tell!

I was talking to a season ticket holder who wasn't going to renew as they were rubbish so even if people stop going we'll not know if it was just because they were getting rubbish or circumstances either!
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2018, 09:16:00 PM
People may stop going or they may not.... time will tell!

I was talking to a season ticket holder who wasn't going to renew as they were rubbish so even if people stop going we'll not know if it was just because they were getting rubbish or circumstances either!

He’s some fan! Only goes when they are winning? Hmm

They are taking the piss tonight though! Woman linesperson!!
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: imtommygunn on April 13, 2018, 09:20:48 PM
If they're not back in europe numbers will drop - that is just how it works!! Not quite like your local gaa club!
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2018, 09:23:31 PM
If they're not back in europe numbers will drop - that is just how it works!! Not quite like your local gaa club!

I beg to differ, I’ve been couple times this year and I’m not even a rugby person! They’ve a great set up with things that suit everybody.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: imtommygunn on April 13, 2018, 09:25:14 PM
Well again maybe we will see and maybe we won't!

Success brings people out.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 13, 2018, 09:32:53 PM
Well again maybe we will see and maybe we won't!

Success brings people out.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/hundreds-protest-at-home-of-ulster-rugby-over-handling-of-jackson-and-olding-36804955.html
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2018, 09:41:31 PM
Well again maybe we will see and maybe we won't!

Success brings people out.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/hundreds-protest-at-home-of-ulster-rugby-over-handling-of-jackson-and-olding-36804955.html

Yeah I’m surprised at how many were there, gathering momentum
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 13, 2018, 09:54:16 PM
Well again maybe we will see and maybe we won't!

Success brings people out.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/hundreds-protest-at-home-of-ulster-rugby-over-handling-of-jackson-and-olding-36804955.html

Yeah I’m surprised at how many were there, gathering momentum
The political wing wrote to Bank of Ireland
Hell hath no fury like a shower of feminists on social meeja
Spitroasting works both ways
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on April 13, 2018, 09:55:11 PM
Well again maybe we will see and maybe we won't!

Success brings people out.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/hundreds-protest-at-home-of-ulster-rugby-over-handling-of-jackson-and-olding-36804955.html

Yeah I’m surprised at how many were there, gathering momentum

Is it dawning on you yet that there is a systematic rape culture that this case has become the poster child for yet? How many protests and articles will it take before you realise this is no manufactured fringe outrage?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2018, 10:00:54 PM
Well again maybe we will see and maybe we won't!

Success brings people out.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/hundreds-protest-at-home-of-ulster-rugby-over-handling-of-jackson-and-olding-36804955.html

Yeah I’m surprised at how many were there, gathering momentum

Is it dawning on you yet that there is a systematic rape culture that this case has become the poster child for yet? How many protests and articles will it take before you realise this is no manufactured fringe outrage?

Did you open the link Syferus ? There was 80 women at it! Hundreds was a made up figure, there was a girl who had a paddy Jackson  t shirt on and went over to them ! I didn’t see you there though
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on April 13, 2018, 10:06:48 PM
Well again maybe we will see and maybe we won't!

Success brings people out.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/hundreds-protest-at-home-of-ulster-rugby-over-handling-of-jackson-and-olding-36804955.html

Yeah I’m surprised at how many were there, gathering momentum

Is it dawning on you yet that there is a systematic rape culture that this case has become the poster child for yet? How many protests and articles will it take before you realise this is no manufactured fringe outrage?

Did you open the link Syferus ? There was 80 women at it! Hundreds was a made up figure, there was a girl who had a paddy Jackson  t shirt on and went over to them ! I didn’t see you there though

What the fûck are you talking about?

Did you read the first line of the article? This might be the best guff you’ve came out with yet.

MR2, the crowd expert. Nevermind the fact the journalist and photographer were at the protest.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2018, 10:32:32 PM
Well again maybe we will see and maybe we won't!

Success brings people out.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/hundreds-protest-at-home-of-ulster-rugby-over-handling-of-jackson-and-olding-36804955.html

Yeah I’m surprised at how many were there, gathering momentum

Is it dawning on you yet that there is a systematic rape culture that this case has become the poster child for yet? How many protests and articles will it take before you realise this is no manufactured fringe outrage?

Did you open the link Syferus ? There was 80 women at it! Hundreds was a made up figure, there was a girl who had a paddy Jackson  t shirt on and went over to them ! I didn’t see you there though

What the fûck are you talking about?

Did you read the first line of the article? This might be the best guff you’ve came out with yet.

MR2, the crowd expert. Nevermind the fact the journalist and photographer were at the protest.

Was talking to a mate at the match .. he said there was at best a 100 there
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on April 13, 2018, 10:49:01 PM
Well again maybe we will see and maybe we won't!

Success brings people out.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/hundreds-protest-at-home-of-ulster-rugby-over-handling-of-jackson-and-olding-36804955.html

Yeah I’m surprised at how many were there, gathering momentum

Is it dawning on you yet that there is a systematic rape culture that this case has become the poster child for yet? How many protests and articles will it take before you realise this is no manufactured fringe outrage?

Did you open the link Syferus ? There was 80 women at it! Hundreds was a made up figure, there was a girl who had a paddy Jackson  t shirt on and went over to them ! I didn’t see you there though

What the fûck are you talking about?

Did you read the first line of the article? This might be the best guff you’ve came out with yet.

MR2, the crowd expert. Nevermind the fact the journalist and photographer were at the protest.

Was talking to a mate at the match .. he said there was at best a 100 there

Is this performance art or something?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: square_ball on April 13, 2018, 10:58:47 PM
The talk around Belfast tonight is the two lads are getting the P45 from Ulster. Hopefully they can get their careers back on track elsewhere. Official announcement expected tomorrow.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Kidder81 on April 13, 2018, 10:59:12 PM
Jacko and Olding to leave Ulster Rugby, joint statement from Ulster & IRFU tomorrow or Monday
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: michaelg on April 14, 2018, 12:05:11 AM
Well again maybe we will see and maybe we won't!

Success brings people out.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/hundreds-protest-at-home-of-ulster-rugby-over-handling-of-jackson-and-olding-36804955.html

Yeah I’m surprised at how many were there, gathering momentum

Is it dawning on you yet that there is a systematic rape culture that this case has become the poster child for yet? How many protests and articles will it take before you realise this is no manufactured fringe outrage?

Did you open the link Syferus ? There was 80 women at it! Hundreds was a made up figure, there was a girl who had a paddy Jackson  t shirt on and went over to them ! I didn’t see you there though

What the fûck are you talking about?

Did you read the first line of the article? This might be the best guff you’ve came out with yet.

MR2, the crowd expert. Nevermind the fact the journalist and photographer were at the protest.

Was talking to a mate at the match .. he said there was at best a 100 there

Is this performance art or something?
Was there myself - Small number of protesters there. 100 at best seems a decent shout.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on April 14, 2018, 01:07:33 AM
Well again maybe we will see and maybe we won't!

Success brings people out.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/hundreds-protest-at-home-of-ulster-rugby-over-handling-of-jackson-and-olding-36804955.html

Yeah I’m surprised at how many were there, gathering momentum

Is it dawning on you yet that there is a systematic rape culture that this case has become the poster child for yet? How many protests and articles will it take before you realise this is no manufactured fringe outrage?

Did you open the link Syferus ? There was 80 women at it! Hundreds was a made up figure, there was a girl who had a paddy Jackson  t shirt on and went over to them ! I didn’t see you there though

What the fûck are you talking about?

Did you read the first line of the article? This might be the best guff you’ve came out with yet.

MR2, the crowd expert. Nevermind the fact the journalist and photographer were at the protest.

Was talking to a mate at the match .. he said there was at best a 100 there

Is this performance art or something?
Was there myself - Small number of protesters there. 100 at best seems a decent shout.

I’ll trust the experienced journalist and photographer before an anonymous poster on the internet, all the same.

People like MR2 are so incredibly petty that when they know they have no ability to argue against better laws and prosecution of rape they fixate on the absolute most meaningless aspect they can find in the hopes it will take the heat off the reason there’s a protest in the first place.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: RedHand88 on April 14, 2018, 03:32:00 AM
Well again maybe we will see and maybe we won't!

Success brings people out.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/hundreds-protest-at-home-of-ulster-rugby-over-handling-of-jackson-and-olding-36804955.html

Yeah I’m surprised at how many were there, gathering momentum

Is it dawning on you yet that there is a systematic rape culture that this case has become the poster child for yet? How many protests and articles will it take before you realise this is no manufactured fringe outrage?

As a male you are also responsible for this "rape culture" syferus. Such is the nature of this identity politics of the noisy far left. Men=rapist.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Asal Mor on April 14, 2018, 06:42:36 AM
Well again maybe we will see and maybe we won't!

Success brings people out.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/hundreds-protest-at-home-of-ulster-rugby-over-handling-of-jackson-and-olding-36804955.html

Yeah I’m surprised at how many were there, gathering momentum

Is it dawning on you yet that there is a systematic rape culture that this case has become the poster child for yet? How many protests and articles will it take before you realise this is no manufactured fringe outrage?

Did you open the link Syferus ? There was 80 women at it! Hundreds was a made up figure, there was a girl who had a paddy Jackson  t shirt on and went over to them ! I didn’t see you there though

What the fûck are you talking about?

Did you read the first line of the article? This might be the best guff you’ve came out with yet.

MR2, the crowd expert. Nevermind the fact the journalist and photographer were at the protest.

Was talking to a mate at the match .. he said there was at best a 100 there

Is this performance art or something?
Was there myself - Small number of protesters there. 100 at best seems a decent shout.

I’ll trust the experienced journalist and photographer before an anonymous poster on the internet, all the same.

People like MR2 are so incredibly petty that when they know they have no ability to argue against better laws and prosecution of rape they fixate on the absolute most meaningless aspect they can find in the hopes it will take the heat off the reason there’s a protest in the first place.
No one has any issue with people protesting for better laws.

This protest is about stopping 2 men who have been found not guilty from continuing with their careers.

The fact that you need to lie about what they are protesting for,  in order to make your point, says a lot about how justifiable this hate campaign against Olding and Jackson is.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 14, 2018, 07:27:19 AM
Ulster says no.

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/irfu-to-announce-departure-of-paddy-jackson-and-stuart-olding-following-internal-review-36803073.html


PJ's house will surely be added to Belfast taxi tour routes.

https://youtu.be/SVDC6kPCkWA
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2018, 08:24:19 AM
Ulster says no.

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/irfu-to-announce-departure-of-paddy-jackson-and-stuart-olding-following-internal-review-36803073.html


PJ's house will surely be added to Belfast taxi tour routes.

https://youtu.be/SVDC6kPCkWA

Syferus will be opening up a bottle of club orange on that news!

Seen a guy winking at a girl in Work the other day, god help him if the mob find out
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AQMP on April 14, 2018, 09:21:57 AM
Ulster says no.

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/irfu-to-announce-departure-of-paddy-jackson-and-stuart-olding-following-internal-review-36803073.html


PJ's house will surely be added to Belfast taxi tour routes.

https://youtu.be/SVDC6kPCkWA

Syferus will be opening up a bottle of club orange on that news!

Seen a guy winking at a girl in Work the other day, god help him if the mob find out

Disgusting stuff MR2, he should get the road immediately...oh right read it again there...he was winking at her...winking
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: sid waddell on April 14, 2018, 10:21:59 AM
If people feel so strongly that the chaps have been treated unfairly they have they option of boycotting Ulster and Irish rugby from here on in.

But I somehow doubt that will happen... ;)
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Wildweasel74 on April 14, 2018, 10:55:29 AM
End of the day they didnt go; the sponsorship was been pulled! Ulster rugby aint stupid! Money required to run these teams!
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 14, 2018, 11:05:01 AM
The case was a pyrrhic victory for the boys. They were acquitted but had huge costs and now they lose their Ireland careers. If Zebo can't play for Ireland neither can PJ.
In Ulster rugby the real legend now is Stockdale.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2018, 12:11:27 PM
If people feel so strongly that the chaps have been treated unfairly they have they option of boycotting Ulster and Irish rugby from here on in.

But I somehow doubt that will happen... ;)

I’m heading to the Glasgow game next week! The belfast feminists wil be on to something else by then.. Syria maybe
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: David McKeown on April 14, 2018, 12:57:31 PM
Provided a proper review and not a charade took place I would have no issue with the decision to sack Olding and Jackson. That said I would love to know the exact reason. If it were simply the texts the Gilroy should be going as well. If the review looked at all the evidence and decided on the balance of probabilities that non concensual sex occurred hence the firing then again I wouldn't complain but what ever the reason for the decision I hope they are consistent with it going forward. I might have an issue if they have been sacked because of public opinion or the mere fact they were tried and acquitted.

Were there not reports throughout the trial that Ulster rugby delegates were there on a rotational basis to support the accused?  Strange to do that and then sack them. Then of course I may not be remembering things correctly.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AQMP on April 14, 2018, 01:32:05 PM
Provided a proper review and not a charade took place I would have no issue with the decision to sack Olding and Jackson. That said I would love to know the exact reason. If it were simply the texts the Gilroy should be going as well. If the review looked at all the evidence and decided on the balance of probabilities that non concensual sex occurred hence the firing then again I wouldn't complain but what ever the reason for the decision I hope they are consistent with it going forward. I might have an issue if they have been sacked because of public opinion or the mere fact they were tried and acquitted.

Were there not reports throughout the trial that Ulster rugby delegates were there on a rotational basis to support the accused?  Strange to do that and then sack them. Then of course I may not be remembering things correctly.

Yeah, I thought it might be a mutual consent thing.  But looks like there must something in their T&C's that made some element of this gross misconduct?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AQMP on April 14, 2018, 01:35:23 PM
Stuart Olding's statement

"It is with regret that I have been informed that the IRFU have decided to revoke my contract.  As I said outside court following my acquittal, I am and will always be fiercely proud of having played for my province and country.  I very much wished to continue to have the opportunity to represent them.

Regrettably, influences outside of my contractual arrangement have made it impossible for that to happen.  I said outside court that the Stuart Olding that you read about in the trial is not the real Stuart Olding.  The treatment that I have received since my acquittal, both fair and unfair, has made me even more determined to prove myself.  With the support of my family and friends I shall seek new challenges elsewhere.  I bear no one any ill will.  I am very sorry that this day has come to pass.  To those who have supported me through these last 20 months and especially the fans who continue to support me, I thank you all."
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AQMP on April 14, 2018, 01:36:47 PM
Paddy Jackson's statement

"I am deeply disappointed about the outcome of the IRFU and Ulster Rugby's internal review.  However, I recognise that my behaviour has fallen far short of the values expected of me as an international player, a role model for the game of rugby and as a son and a brother.  I am truly sorry.  Since I was a young boy it was my ambition to play for Ulster and Ireland and I am extremely proud, privileged and honoured to have done so. It is therefore with great sadness and regret but with many cherished memories that I leave that behind.  I would like to thank everyone who has supported me throughout this process. I have taken great strength from that support. I'd also like to thank Ulster and Irish rugby for the opportunities that they provided for me and I wish them, and all my former team mates, every success.  "My focus in the months and years ahead will be on rebuilding the trust placed in me by people throughout Ulster and Ireland."
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2018, 01:37:21 PM
Well Gilroy should get the boot also based on that.. Jackson and Olding have released statements and they have accepted things it seems..

Won’t be long before the word bitch is banned when talking to female staff ffs
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: imtommygunn on April 14, 2018, 02:03:17 PM
You seem to focus on the belfast sluts name calling and the sending porn videos about. While that has added to i really don't think it is calling women belfast sluts at the core of this decision...
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2018, 02:05:57 PM
You seem to focus on the belfast sluts name calling and the sending porn videos about. While that has added to i really don't think it is calling women belfast sluts at the core of this decision...

Having a threesome then is sackable?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: imtommygunn on April 14, 2018, 02:18:08 PM
Look you have your opinion and that is fine but name calling and threesome kind of suggest you haven't thought too deeply here.

I'll leave you and syferus to battle it out as it is not productive use of my time ;)
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: sid waddell on April 14, 2018, 02:19:35 PM
You seem to focus on the belfast sluts name calling and the sending porn videos about. While that has added to i really don't think it is calling women belfast sluts at the core of this decision...
It's probably the fact that a hell of a lot of people think they're rapists that has led to this decision.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on April 14, 2018, 02:25:33 PM
You seem to focus on the belfast sluts name calling and the sending porn videos about. While that has added to i really don't think it is calling women belfast sluts at the core of this decision...

Having a threesome then is sackable?

Just as well the football premier league teams dont bother about misconduct otherwise they wouldnt be able to field a team.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2018, 02:46:57 PM
Look you have your opinion and that is fine but name calling and threesome kind of suggest you haven't thought too deeply here.

I'll leave you and syferus to battle it out as it is not productive use of my time ;)

Will you accept any not verdict decision or just ones that involve rugby players?

I haven’t a clue what went on that night, and tbh they don’t know much of it themselves by all accounts, it went to court and 11 people decided that they were not guilty... now at the minute people believe what they want regardless of the courts,judges, and jury decided. Hey that’s fine.

Me personally it makes no impact on my life Whether they play rugby again means nothing to me.

What is annoying (slightly) is the bandwagon vegan treehuggers feminists crowd who have become a ‘movement’ and refused to accept the rule of law and using this high profile case as a platform to make news and ‘educate’ men .. they’d do well to protest at such tv programmes like Ex on the beach, Geordie shore, love island! The tr**p talk from the women on those shows is a lot worse..

Paddy and Olding have accepted the decision now.. some people should do the same, but won’t be long before the next crusade
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2018, 02:48:40 PM
You seem to focus on the belfast sluts name calling and the sending porn videos about. While that has added to i really don't think it is calling women belfast sluts at the core of this decision...
It's probably the fact that a hell of a lot of people think they're rapists that has led to this decision.

Hmm, the hell of a lot of people that really mattered, didn’t think so, but you were there all long with the rest
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: sid waddell on April 14, 2018, 03:29:29 PM
You seem to focus on the belfast sluts name calling and the sending porn videos about. While that has added to i really don't think it is calling women belfast sluts at the core of this decision...
It's probably the fact that a hell of a lot of people think they're rapists that has led to this decision.

Hmm, the hell of a lot of people that really mattered, didn’t think so, but you were there all long with the rest

As well as displaying a fundamental misunderstanding of the criminal justice system, you've just displayed you can't count! Well done, mate! ;D

Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: longballin on April 14, 2018, 03:41:33 PM
Look you have your opinion and that is fine but name calling and threesome kind of suggest you haven't thought too deeply here.

I'll leave you and syferus to battle it out as it is not productive use of my time ;)

Will you accept any not verdict decision or just ones that involve rugby players?

I haven’t a clue what went on that night, and tbh they don’t know much of it themselves by all accounts, it went to court and 11 people decided that they were not guilty... now at the minute people believe what they want regardless of the courts,judges, and jury decided. Hey that’s fine.

Me personally it makes no impact on my life Whether they play rugby again means nothing to me.

What is annoying (slightly) is the bandwagon vegan treehuggers feminists crowd who have become a ‘movement’ and refused to accept the rule of law and using this high profile case as a platform to make news and ‘educate’ men .. they’d do well to protest at such tv programmes like Ex on the beach, Geordie shore, love island! The tr**p talk from the women on those shows is a lot worse..

Paddy and Olding have accepted the decision now.. some people should do the same, but won’t be long before the next crusade

Oh dear you're taking this very badly  : 0
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AQMP on April 14, 2018, 03:50:41 PM
They were goners with or without the protests
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: moysider on April 14, 2018, 04:13:42 PM

I wonder how many people would actually keep their careers if caught up in an episode like this?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: tonto1888 on April 14, 2018, 04:14:32 PM
Look you have your opinion and that is fine but name calling and threesome kind of suggest you haven't thought too deeply here.

I'll leave you and syferus to battle it out as it is not productive use of my time ;)

Will you accept any not verdict decision or just ones that involve rugby players?

I haven’t a clue what went on that night, and tbh they don’t know much of it themselves by all accounts, it went to court and 11 people decided that they were not guilty... now at the minute people believe what they want regardless of the courts,judges, and jury decided. Hey that’s fine.

Me personally it makes no impact on my life Whether they play rugby again means nothing to me.

What is annoying (slightly) is the bandwagon vegan treehuggers feminists crowd who have become a ‘movement’ and refused to accept the rule of law and using this high profile case as a platform to make news and ‘educate’ men .. they’d do well to protest at such tv programmes like Ex on the beach, Geordie shore, love island! The tr**p talk from the women on those shows is a lot worse..

Paddy and Olding have accepted the decision now.. some people should do the same, but won’t be long before the next crusade
Leave the vegans out of this will ye? A lot of those feminists love a good burger!!

On a serious note, have hey had their contracts terminated because of the watts app messages and the fact they had a threesome? It’s thats the case then Ulster rugby will need to be checking on all their players every weekend and their wattsapps. Or is it beuse these two got caught?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: longballin on April 14, 2018, 04:15:58 PM
Have to say I was shocked that a 13-year-girl (according to radio report) wearing 'I support Paddy Jackson' T shirt went to game wiith her father.  Photo in Irish News
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2018, 04:17:33 PM
Have to say I was shocked that a 13-year-girl (according to radio report) wearing 'I support Paddy Jackson' T shirt went to game wiith her father.  Photo in Irish News

Shocked?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2018, 04:18:47 PM
You seem to focus on the belfast sluts name calling and the sending porn videos about. While that has added to i really don't think it is calling women belfast sluts at the core of this decision...
It's probably the fact that a hell of a lot of people think they're rapists that has led to this decision.

Hmm, the hell of a lot of people that really mattered, didn’t think so, but you were there all long with the rest

As well as displaying a fundamental misunderstanding of the criminal justice system, you've just displayed you can't count! Well done, mate! ;D

Didn’t realise this was a counting game Syf
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: imtommygunn on April 14, 2018, 04:24:36 PM
Look you have your opinion and that is fine but name calling and threesome kind of suggest you haven't thought too deeply here.

I'll leave you and syferus to battle it out as it is not productive use of my time ;)

Will you accept any not verdict decision or just ones that involve rugby players?

I haven’t a clue what went on that night, and tbh they don’t know much of it themselves by all accounts, it went to court and 11 people decided that they were not guilty... now at the minute people believe what they want regardless of the courts,judges, and jury decided. Hey that’s fine.

Me personally it makes no impact on my life Whether they play rugby again means nothing to me.

What is annoying (slightly) is the bandwagon vegan treehuggers feminists crowd who have become a ‘movement’ and refused to accept the rule of law and using this high profile case as a platform to make news and ‘educate’ men .. they’d do well to protest at such tv programmes like Ex on the beach, Geordie shore, love island! The tr**p talk from the women on those shows is a lot worse..

Paddy and Olding have accepted the decision now.. some people should do the same, but won’t be long before the next crusade

You really have taken this bad mr.

I accept they were found not guilty of rape. The fact they are rugby players bears no relevance to anything. Same happened to ched evans.

Ulster rugby were in a very difficult position. It was hard to see this going any other way.

Now jackson and olding have accepted it so maybe you should...
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on April 14, 2018, 04:30:43 PM
If people feel so strongly that the chaps have been treated unfairly they have they option of boycotting Ulster and Irish rugby from here on in.

But I somehow doubt that will happen... ;)

I’m heading to the Glasgow game next week! The belfast feminists wil be on to something else by then.. Syria maybe

You've been saying this for three months and now we've both got mass protests and the firing of Jackson and Olding. Wishful thinking from a caveman.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2018, 04:33:31 PM
If people feel so strongly that the chaps have been treated unfairly they have they option of boycotting Ulster and Irish rugby from here on in.

But I somehow doubt that will happen... ;)

I’m heading to the Glasgow game next week! The belfast feminists wil be on to something else by then.. Syria maybe

You've been saying this for three months and now we've both got mass protests and the firing of Jackson and Olding. Wishful thinking from a caveman.

Mass protest? The bbc report on Friday nights game said dozens came out! Carry on
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2018, 04:38:05 PM
Look you have your opinion and that is fine but name calling and threesome kind of suggest you haven't thought too deeply here.

I'll leave you and syferus to battle it out as it is not productive use of my time ;)

Will you accept any not verdict decision or just ones that involve rugby players?

I haven’t a clue what went on that night, and tbh they don’t know much of it themselves by all accounts, it went to court and 11 people decided that they were not guilty... now at the minute people believe what they want regardless of the courts,judges, and jury decided. Hey that’s fine.

Me personally it makes no impact on my life Whether they play rugby again means nothing to me.

What is annoying (slightly) is the bandwagon vegan treehuggers feminists crowd who have become a ‘movement’ and refused to accept the rule of law and using this high profile case as a platform to make news and ‘educate’ men .. they’d do well to protest at such tv programmes like Ex on the beach, Geordie shore, love island! The tr**p talk from the women on those shows is a lot worse..

Paddy and Olding have accepted the decision now.. some people should do the same, but won’t be long before the next crusade

You really have taken this bad mr.

I accept they were found not guilty of rape. The fact they are rugby players bears no relevance to anything. Same happened to ched evans.

Ulster rugby were in a very difficult position. It was hard to see this going any other way.

Now jackson and olding have accepted it so maybe you should...

I’d be more worried about our senior hurlers than PJ and Olding to be honest, though I do like a arguement
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: longballin on April 14, 2018, 05:09:22 PM
Have to say I was shocked that a 13-year-girl (according to radio report) wearing 'I support Paddy Jackson' T shirt went to game wiith her father.  Photo in Irish News

Shocked?

That's what I wrote - well done.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2018, 05:11:03 PM
Have to say I was shocked that a 13-year-girl (according to radio report) wearing 'I support Paddy Jackson' T shirt went to game wiith her father.  Photo in Irish News

Shocked?

That's what I wrote - well done.

Easily shocked
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: longballin on April 14, 2018, 05:15:59 PM
Have to say I was shocked that a 13-year-girl (according to radio report) wearing 'I support Paddy Jackson' T shirt went to game wiith her father.  Photo in Irish News

Shocked?

That's what I wrote - well done.

Easily shocked

 Maybe I am thinking that a 13-year-old girl has no issue with Paddy Jackson's behaviour and her father has no issue that she has no issue with it...
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2018, 05:18:41 PM
Have to say I was shocked that a 13-year-girl (according to radio report) wearing 'I support Paddy Jackson' T shirt went to game wiith her father.  Photo in Irish News

Shocked?

That's what I wrote - well done.

Easily shocked

 Maybe I am thinking that a 13-year-old girl has no issue with Paddy Jackson's behaviour and her father has no issue that she has no issue with it...

If your son was involved in a threesome you’d be shocked?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on April 14, 2018, 05:24:05 PM
Have to say I was shocked that a 13-year-girl (according to radio report) wearing 'I support Paddy Jackson' T shirt went to game wiith her father.  Photo in Irish News

Shocked?

That's what I wrote - well done.

Easily shocked

 Maybe I am thinking that a 13-year-old girl has no issue with Paddy Jackson's behaviour and her father has no issue that she has no issue with it...

If your son was involved in a threesome you’d be shocked?

I wasn’t going to say anything because it’s been amusing watching you rely on it as a crutch for the last three months, but whataboutry is never a good argument.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2018, 05:31:53 PM
Have to say I was shocked that a 13-year-girl (according to radio report) wearing 'I support Paddy Jackson' T shirt went to game wiith her father.  Photo in Irish News

Shocked?

That's what I wrote - well done.

Easily shocked

 Maybe I am thinking that a 13-year-old girl has no issue with Paddy Jackson's behaviour and her father has no issue that she has no issue with it...

If your son was involved in a threesome you’d be shocked?

I wasn’t going to say anything because it’s been amusing watching you rely on it as a crutch for the last three months, but whataboutry is never a good argument.

I learned whataboutery from you..
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: longballin on April 14, 2018, 05:39:10 PM
Have to say I was shocked that a 13-year-girl (according to radio report) wearing 'I support Paddy Jackson' T shirt went to game wiith her father.  Photo in Irish News

Shocked?



That's what I wrote - well done.

Easily shocked

 Maybe I am thinking that a 13-year-old girl has no issue with Paddy Jackson's behaviour and her father has no issue that she has no issue with it...

If your son was involved in a threesome you’d be shocked?

Very shocked; he's 15!
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2018, 05:41:28 PM
Have to say I was shocked that a 13-year-girl (according to radio report) wearing 'I support Paddy Jackson' T shirt went to game wiith her father.  Photo in Irish News

Shocked?



That's what I wrote - well done.

Easily shocked

 Maybe I am thinking that a 13-year-old girl has no issue with Paddy Jackson's behaviour and her father has no issue that she has no issue with it...

If your son was involved in a threesome you’d be shocked?

Very shocked; he's 15!

Still his college years to come, plenty time
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: longballin on April 14, 2018, 05:44:06 PM
Have to say I was shocked that a 13-year-girl (according to radio report) wearing 'I support Paddy Jackson' T shirt went to game wiith her father.  Photo in Irish News

Shocked?



That's what I wrote - well done.

Easily shocked

 Maybe I am thinking that a 13-year-old girl has no issue with Paddy Jackson's behaviour and her father has no issue that she has no issue with it...

If your son was involved in a threesome you’d be shocked?

Very shocked; he's 15!

Still his college years to come, plenty time

I hope he shows more respect to women than those boys did. Hardly role models dragging Ulster rugby through the gutter hence their P45s.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2018, 06:03:59 PM
Have to say I was shocked that a 13-year-girl (according to radio report) wearing 'I support Paddy Jackson' T shirt went to game wiith her father.  Photo in Irish News

Shocked?



That's what I wrote - well done.

Easily shocked

 Maybe I am thinking that a 13-year-old girl has no issue with Paddy Jackson's behaviour and her father has no issue that she has no issue with it...

If your son was involved in a threesome you’d be shocked?

Very shocked; he's 15!

Still his college years to come, plenty time

I hope he shows more respect to women than those boys did. Hardly role models dragging Ulster rugby through the gutter hence their P45s.

I’ve no problems with people being held up as role models and certain restrictions in place.. and I hope my own kids don’t find themselves in similar circumstances but it seems to be a witch hunt, made up of people who’d made up there minds regardless of the evidence presented and intent on revenge of sorts!

I’m sure Jackson and Olding will find work elsewhere.. they have learned a big lesson and clubs now have put huge importantce now on insuring they can monitor their players better.. I was chatting to a guy who was at a wedding lately, there was a Welsh rugby player at it who is basically chipped with a watch that can monitor his movements drink intake and so on!

Won’t matter much once the Russians start a war :P
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on April 14, 2018, 06:37:52 PM
Have to say I was shocked that a 13-year-girl (according to radio report) wearing 'I support Paddy Jackson' T shirt went to game wiith her father.  Photo in Irish News

Shocked?



That's what I wrote - well done.

Easily shocked

 Maybe I am thinking that a 13-year-old girl has no issue with Paddy Jackson's behaviour and her father has no issue that she has no issue with it...

If your son was involved in a threesome you’d be shocked?

Very shocked; he's 15!

Still his college years to come, plenty time

I hope he shows more respect to women than those boys did. Hardly role models dragging Ulster rugby through the gutter hence their P45s.

I’ve no problems with people being held up as role models and certain restrictions in place.. and I hope my own kids don’t find themselves in similar circumstances but it seems to be a witch hunt, made up of people who’d made up there minds regardless of the evidence presented and intent on revenge of sorts!

I’m sure Jackson and Olding will find work elsewhere.. they have learned a big lesson and clubs now have put huge importantce now on insuring they can monitor their players better.. I was chatting to a guy who was at a wedding lately, there was a Welsh rugby player at it who is basically chipped with a watch that can monitor his movements drink intake and so on!

Won’t matter much once the Russians start a war :P

Explain how judging these fools on their behaviour is a witch hunt?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Thastheball on April 14, 2018, 06:42:25 PM
Have to say I was shocked that a 13-year-girl (according to radio report) wearing 'I support Paddy Jackson' T shirt went to game wiith her father.  Photo in Irish News

Shocked?



That's what I wrote - well done.

Easily shocked

 Maybe I am thinking that a 13-year-old girl has no issue with Paddy Jackson's behaviour and her father has no issue that she has no issue with it...

If your son was involved in a threesome you’d be shocked?

Very shocked; he's 15!

Still his college years to come, plenty time

I hope he shows more respect to women than those boys did. Hardly role models dragging Ulster rugby through the gutter hence their P45s.

I’ve no problems with people being held up as role models and certain restrictions in place.. and I hope my own kids don’t find themselves in similar circumstances but it seems to be a witch hunt, made up of people who’d made up there minds regardless of the evidence presented and intent on revenge of sorts!

I’m sure Jackson and Olding will find work elsewhere.. they have learned a big lesson and clubs now have put huge importantce now on insuring they can monitor their players better.. I was chatting to a guy who was at a wedding lately, there was a Welsh rugby player at it who is basically chipped with a watch that can monitor his movements drink intake and so on!

Won’t matter much once the Russians start a war :P

Explain how judging these fools on their behaviour is a witch hunt?

If ever one quote demostrated an individuals inability to see the nose on their face, that was it.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2018, 07:30:58 PM
Given the statements from Olding and PJ would they have been given a pay off?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Owen Brannigan on April 14, 2018, 07:54:21 PM
Given the statements from Olding and PJ would they have been given a pay off?

No doubt there would have to have been a financial agreement to terminate the contracts because:

1. There was no contractual clause about behaviour otherwise Gilroy would also be gone

2. Two other IRFU centrally contracted players were known by the public to have indulged in similar sexual behaviour but no action was taken against them so Jackson and Olding had precedent on their side in negotiations.

3. Jackson and Olding had to be sacrificed by IRFU and Ulster to save sponsorship deals and quieten public dissent even if it is from a tiny but vocal minority. Be certain that deals have already been put in place for both players to get new deals at clubs outside Ireland that will be revealed at a suitable time on the PR front.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Dinny Breen on April 14, 2018, 08:35:58 PM
Given the statements from Olding and PJ would they have been given a pay off?

No doubt there would have to have been a financial agreement to terminate the contracts because:

1. There was no contractual clause about behaviour otherwise Gilroy would also be gone

2. Two other IRFU centrally contracted players were known by the public to have indulged in similar sexual behaviour but no action was taken against them so Jackson and Olding had precedent on their side in negotiations.

3. Jackson and Olding had to be sacrificed by IRFU and Ulster to save sponsorship deals and quieten public dissent even if it is from a tiny but vocal minority. Be certain that deals have already been put in place for both players to get new deals at clubs outside Ireland that will be revealed at a suitable time on the PR front.

Just on point 2, Murray and Zebo were both disciplined over that, it just wasn't all over the papers. Murray was very contrite and rang both Joe Schmidt and the IRFU President to apologise, Zebo didn't.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2018, 08:40:24 PM
Given the statements from Olding and PJ would they have been given a pay off?

No doubt there would have to have been a financial agreement to terminate the contracts because:

1. There was no contractual clause about behaviour otherwise Gilroy would also be gone

2. Two other IRFU centrally contracted players were known by the public to have indulged in similar sexual behaviour but no action was taken against them so Jackson and Olding had precedent on their side in negotiations.

3. Jackson and Olding had to be sacrificed by IRFU and Ulster to save sponsorship deals and quieten public dissent even if it is from a tiny but vocal minority. Be certain that deals have already been put in place for both players to get new deals at clubs outside Ireland that will be revealed at a suitable time on the PR front.

Just on point 2, Murray and Zebo were both disciplined over that, it just wasn't all over the papers. Murray was very contrite and rang both Joe Schmidt and the IRFU President to apologise, Zebo didn't.
Murray would have been a greater loss in fairness
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on April 14, 2018, 08:40:57 PM
At this stage it is a pure PR thing. The 2 lads will have about 2/3 of their remaining contracts paid up and they will go and get clubs in England or France. The whole thing is done, dusted and a line drawn under it now. Time to move on I reckon boys and girls.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Dinny Breen on April 14, 2018, 08:45:37 PM
I agree it's a circular debate. Just close the thread.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on April 14, 2018, 08:52:04 PM
At this stage it is a pure PR thing. The 2 lads will have about 2/3 of their remaining contracts paid up and they will go and get clubs in England or France. The whole thing is done, dusted and a line drawn under it now. Time to move on I reckon boys and girls.

Until rape is successfully prosecuted to a meaningful degree and the culture of apologists that shield those who commit the crime fades away this will never go away. This was always much bigger than two rugby players and a teenage woman.

You and others here dearly wish that this mess could be brushed under the carpet but it will not be and it will continue to come to the forefront of public perception with regularity until laws change, or the interpretation of them change.

This is a flashpoint for a much greater issue and it seems like only one side of the ‘argument’ (there really isn’t one, the facts surrounding rape say everything you need to know) are willing to own up to.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Owen Brannigan on April 14, 2018, 09:04:46 PM
At this stage it is a pure PR thing. The 2 lads will have about 2/3 of their remaining contracts paid up and they will go and get clubs in England or France. The whole thing is done, dusted and a line drawn under it now. Time to move on I reckon boys and girls.

+1
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on April 14, 2018, 09:05:36 PM
At this stage it is a pure PR thing. The 2 lads will have about 2/3 of their remaining contracts paid up and they will go and get clubs in England or France. The whole thing is done, dusted and a line drawn under it now. Time to move on I reckon boys and girls.

Until rape is successfully prosecuted to a meaningful degree and the culture of apologists that shield those who commit the crime fades away this will never go away. This was always much bigger than two rugby players and a teenage woman.

You and others here dearly wish that this mess can be brushed under the carpet but it will not and it will continue to come to the forefront of public perception with regularity until laws change, or the interpretation of them change.

You’re an awful dose of shite. Who are you to sit there and tell me I want it ‘brush it under the carpet’?  I have already stated that I think there could be changes made to make it easier for the complainant but the reality is that it’s not the legal system that is the problem
but a society problem. You seem to think you’re some
paragon of virtue but you’re not....no more than me or MR2 or anyone else. You’ve jumped in a crusade on this issue but what have you done to change the system that you are so critical of? Sweet FA I’d say. I’ll tell you this though, unlike you I have taken action in the past and been involved in numerous JRs which have helped change certain things in the administration of justice in NI. I’ve sat with people whose lives have been devastated by miscarriages of justice and actually done something about it? What have you done apart from been a self aggrandising arsehole on a website? Like I said sweet FA no doubt. When you’ve done something then you can talk to me, till then keep your judgement ta to yourself.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Ambrose on April 14, 2018, 09:06:26 PM
Syferus, I assume you haven't viewed the Dara Florence video doing the rounds then? Yet.....
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 14, 2018, 09:10:32 PM
At this stage it is a pure PR thing. The 2 lads will have about 2/3 of their remaining contracts paid up and they will go and get clubs in England or France. The whole thing is done, dusted and a line drawn under it now. Time to move on I reckon boys and girls.
I wouldn't be surprised if this case led to changes in how rape cases are tried in court . It's more than just dumb bitches protesting pointlessly. 
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AQMP on April 14, 2018, 09:10:57 PM
Yeah, the law is the law and business is business and sometimes never the twain shall meet. Will we move on to the Cliff Richard case?? :P
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on April 14, 2018, 09:13:54 PM
Syferus, I assume you haven't viewed the Dara Florence video doing the rounds then? Yet.....

What video? Ah ffs dont be leaving it on a cliff hanger like that esp with all this talk of closing the thread. Im going to have to go back to jeremy kyle at this rate.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2018, 09:15:56 PM
Syferus, I assume you haven't viewed the Dara Florence video doing the rounds then? Yet.....

What video? Ah ffs dont be leaving it on a cliff hanger like that esp with all this talk of closing the thread. Im going to have to go back to jeremy kyle at this rate.

It’s of her going to mass and being completely nun like
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on April 14, 2018, 09:16:34 PM
At this stage it is a pure PR thing. The 2 lads will have about 2/3 of their remaining contracts paid up and they will go and get clubs in England or France. The whole thing is done, dusted and a line drawn under it now. Time to move on I reckon boys and girls.
I wouldn't be surprised if this case led to changes in how rape cases are tried in court . It's more than just dumb bitches protesting pointlessly.

Possibly but I don’t know. It takes a lot to change things. I’d say what may happen initially is that there will be more supports out in place for complainants and possibly more in camera work done but courts are reluctant to do that.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 14, 2018, 09:22:13 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2018/04/14/paddy-jackson-stuart-olding-have-contracts-irfu-ulster-revoked/

Capped 25 times and four times ­respectively, 26-year-old Jackson and 25-year-old Olding have been tipped to try to resurrect their careers in France or Japan. 

Any interest from within  the British Isles, including from ­Premiership clubs, is likely to be met with a furious backlash. 

Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on April 14, 2018, 09:32:39 PM
At this stage it is a pure PR thing. The 2 lads will have about 2/3 of their remaining contracts paid up and they will go and get clubs in England or France. The whole thing is done, dusted and a line drawn under it now. Time to move on I reckon boys and girls.

Until rape is successfully prosecuted to a meaningful degree and the culture of apologists that shield those who commit the crime fades away this will never go away. This was always much bigger than two rugby players and a teenage woman.

You and others here dearly wish that this mess can be brushed under the carpet but it will not and it will continue to come to the forefront of public perception with regularity until laws change, or the interpretation of them change.

You’re an awful dose of shite. Who are you to sit there and tell me I want it ‘brush it under the carpet’?  I have already stated that I think there could be changes made to make it easier for the complainant but the reality is that it’s not the legal system that is the problem
but a society problem. You seem to think you’re some
paragon of virtue but you’re not....no more than me or MR2 or anyone else. You’ve jumped in a crusade on this issue but what have you done to change the system that you are so critical of? Sweet FA I’d say. I’ll tell you this though, unlike you I have taken action in the past and been involved in numerous JRs which have helped change certain things in the administration of justice in NI. I’ve sat with people whose lives have been devastated by miscarriages of justice and actually done something about it? What have you done apart from been a self aggrandising arsehole on a website? Like I said sweet FA no doubt. When you’ve done something then you can talk to me, till then keep your judgement ta to yourself.

I’ve done a whole hell of a lot more than you know, which really wouldn’t be much a statement in and of itself as your defensiveness tells a story. You can’t really believe that attempting to psychoanalyse someone on a message board and trying to say they are as bad as yourself or anyone else, all without knowing a jot about them, is a good argument or response. At least for your sake I hope you don’t.

Your reaction to irrefutable points about prosecution rates also speak volumes. Trying to schold someone in that context is frankly laughable. Always attempting to use ad hominem attacks to distract from what actually matters. It’s a common tactic in this thread.

You can have your echo chamber here, but as I’m sure you have noticed there is real desire for change in both the culture and the law that surrounds rape. Laws and the changing interpretations of them change societies - to say that this is a societal problem is a lie and an over-simplification of how change has been achieved in the past both here and in other western countries. The justice system can be, and should be, an agent for change. It’s much easier to change it than to change base instinct.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2018, 09:35:12 PM
Found those qualifications then ?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on April 14, 2018, 09:45:40 PM
No harm to you Syferus but you have played the man repeatedly in this whole situation. Whenever real arguments were put up to you they were simply ignored and when things were pointed out tomyou that you got completely wrong you ignored them. You have limited knowledge of how the judicial process works and that has come across crystal clear. I believe that the system can change but this is not the case to use as a catalyst as it was a poorly constructed prosecution which was based on a ‘public interest’ decision on taking the case rather than an evidential one. The evidence simply wasn’t there and that is why they were acquitted. It really should not have been proceeded with due to lack of cogent evidence.

Anyway, I’ve nothing more to say on this as it is a circular argument. You have you stance and that’s it.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on April 14, 2018, 09:48:55 PM
No harm to you Syferus but you have played the man repeatedly in this whole situation. Whenever real arguments were put up to you they were simply ignored and when things were pointed out tomyou that you got completely wrong you ignored them. You have limited knowledge of how the judicial process works and that has come across crystal clear. I believe that the system can change but this is not the case to use as a catalyst as it was a poorly constructed prosecution which was based on a ‘public interest’ decision on taking the case rather than an evidential one. The evidence simply wasn’t there and that is why they were acquitted. It really should not have been proceeded with due to lack of cogent evidence.

Anyway, I’ve nothing more to say on this as it is a circular argument. You have you stance and that’s it.

I’ve only played the man when it’s readily apparent that the poster continually excuses the male’s behaviour while attempting to diminish the woman at every turn. MR2, Orior and Asal Mor remain the only ones who I have continually called out on it. It’s only a small thing but letting that nonsense masquerade as something that it is not - good faith argument - would be wrong. Just because this board has a largely anachronistic take on this issue it doesn’t mean I am any less right. I have more interest in what is right than being popular.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: sid waddell on April 14, 2018, 10:10:35 PM
The evidence simply wasn’t there and that is why they were acquitted. It really should not have been proceeded with due to lack of cogent evidence.

If the shouldn't have been proceeded with, as you say, the judge had the options of either accepting an application by the defence to end the trial after the prosecution case had finished for lack of evidence, or directing the jury to acquit.

Neither of these things happened.

I find it very interesting that while several posters have stated that others posters here did not know more than the jury, which is a very fair assertion and one I wouldn't argue with, we simultaneously have some of these same posters now claiming to know more than the Public Prosecution Service and more than the Judge!







Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on April 14, 2018, 10:24:22 PM
The trial was always going to run its whole course. The Prosecution has reserves aboutnit and that came directly to me from the mouth of a member of the PPS. They had serious concerns over the conduct of the investigation by the police and that was clear due to how some of the evidence was accumulated. It was a poor trial and maybe it may have been different if the police had carried out their job correctly but it is what it is and that will never change. They were found not guilty and the door has now closed on their case and the next stage of their lives and the complainants will now begin. This has been talked to death and I’ve nothing left to say.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: sid waddell on April 14, 2018, 10:31:58 PM
The trial was always going to run its whole course. The Prosecution has reserves aboutnit and that came directly to me from the mouth of a member of the PPS. They had serious concerns over the conduct of the investigation by the police and that was clear due to how some of the evidence was accumulated. It was a poor trial and maybe it may have been different if the police had carried out their job correctly but it is what it is and that will never change. They were found not guilty and the door has now closed on their case and the next stage of their lives and the complainants will now begin. This has been talked to death and I’ve nothing left to say.

But a judge can direct a jury to acquit and the defence can apply for a Galbraith ruling to have the charges dismissed.

I'm not sure about the latter, but the former is a not uncommon occurrence.

In your post, you state that "it may have been different had the police carried out their job correctly".

Well, there we go. And some folks wonder why there were protests, eh.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on April 14, 2018, 10:34:43 PM
The trial was always going to run its whole course. The Prosecution has reserves aboutnit and that came directly to me from the mouth of a member of the PPS. They had serious concerns over the conduct of the investigation by the police and that was clear due to how some of the evidence was accumulated. It was a poor trial and maybe it may have been different if the police had carried out their job correctly but it is what it is and that will never change. They were found not guilty and the door has now closed on their case and the next stage of their lives and the complainants will now begin. This has been talked to death and I’ve nothing left to say.

But a judge can direct a jury to acquit and the defence can apply for a Galbraith ruling to have the charges dismissed.

I'm not sure about the latter, but the former is a not uncommon occurrence.

In your post, you state that "it may have been different had the police carried out their job correctly".

Well, there we go. And some folks wonder why there were protests, eh.

If the police had done their job right there may not have been a case at all.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: sid waddell on April 14, 2018, 10:53:49 PM

No doubt there would have to have been a financial agreement to terminate the contracts because:

1. There was no contractual clause about behaviour otherwise Gilroy would also be gone
Gilroy did not engage in behaviour that left a woman at minimum bleeding and extremely distressed.

Jackson and Olding admit that their behaviour was reprehensible.

Therefore their behaviour and Gilroy's is not equivalent.

That is why Gilroy has not been sacked.
2. Two other IRFU centrally contracted players were known by the public to have indulged in similar sexual behaviour but no action was taken against them so Jackson and Olding had precedent on their side in negotiations.
Murray and Zebo did not engage in behaviour that left a woman bleeding and distressed. The woman never alleged that the encounter was anything other than consensual.

Not similar behaviour.

3. Jackson and Olding had to be sacrificed by IRFU and Ulster to save sponsorship deals and quieten public dissent even if it is from a tiny but vocal minority. Be certain that deals have already been put in place for both players to get new deals at clubs outside Ireland that will be revealed at a suitable time on the PR front.

Perhaps people think all this stuff sporting associations say about inclusion, respect, good behaviour etc. is supposed to be self-serving bollocks which is never enforced. Maybe it was designed as self-serving bollocks which the IRFU never thought would have to be used.

But it's there, and if it's to ever mean anything, it had to be invoked now.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2018, 11:06:56 PM
Syf/sid losing the plot again
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: nrico2006 on April 14, 2018, 11:37:52 PM
They cant be sacked for taking part in a threesome, therefore their private messages got them sacked. Surprised Gilroy was treated differently. Should every employee now be cautious over what they text or whatsapp as it could get you in bother with your employers?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2018, 11:40:06 PM
They cant be sacked for taking part in a threesome, therefore their private messages got them sacked. Surprised Gilroy was treated differently. Should every employee now be cautious over what they text or whatsapp as it could get you in bother with your employers?

Well yes, if you’ve a professional job like health service (doctor, nurse) or teaching or something along those lines you may find that you could be in murky waters
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: sid waddell on April 15, 2018, 12:16:38 AM
Syf/sid losing the plot again
To be fair, that's one of your better, more articulate comebacks, mate  ;D
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 15, 2018, 12:18:25 AM
Syf/sid losing the plot again
To be fair, that's one of your better, more articulate comebacks, mate  ;D

Keep flogging that dead horse Syf
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: moysider on April 15, 2018, 12:28:56 AM
They cant be sacked for taking part in a threesome, therefore their private messages got them sacked. Surprised Gilroy was treated differently. Should every employee now be cautious over what they text or whatsapp as it could get you in bother with your employers?

Well yes, if you’ve a professional job like health service (doctor, nurse) or teaching or something along those lines you may find that you could be in murky waters

I doubt it. The messages only came into play when they were accused of rape.

As regards teaching. Arrested for a row in a chipper could be enough for a dismissal. Even if there was no conviction. A rape accusation -forget about. Even if you were aquitted.

These are the broad guidelines for dismissal for 'social' behaviour.

Complaints about certain matters that relate to conduct outside the course of a registered teacher’s profession on grounds such as convictions for certain offences, and where the conduct is of such a serious nature as would bring the profession into disrepute.


 Complaint against a registered teacher can relate to any school-related professional activity, or any activity or role undertaken in their capacity as a registered teacher.


Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: sid waddell on April 15, 2018, 12:31:23 AM
Not quite as articulate that time, mate. Maintaining such a relatively high standard of articulacy as you had in your previous post must be tough for you, but sure we all love a trier, eh.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 15, 2018, 12:36:15 AM
Not quite as articulate that time, mate. Maintaining such a relatively high standard of articulacy as you had in your previous post must be tough for you, but sure we all love a trier, eh.

Aye, it’s tough! Keeping up with your bullshit and how you manage multiple accounts is a credit to you. I suppose having no friends makes it difficult, so by making other accounts you can at least have a friend. Don’t argue with yourself though
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: sid waddell on April 15, 2018, 12:44:58 AM
Not quite as articulate that time, mate. Maintaining such a relatively high standard of articulacy as you had in your previous post must be tough for you, but sure we all love a trier, eh.

Aye, it’s tough! Keeping up with your bullshit and how you manage multiple accounts is a credit to you. I suppose having no friends makes it difficult, so by making other accounts you can at least have a friend. Don’t argue with yourself though
Ooh temper, temper.

Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and get onto the mods if you're worried about multiple accounts?

Maybe you're worried you'll expose yourself for such?

Eh?



Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: David McKeown on April 15, 2018, 01:25:18 AM
The trial was always going to run its whole course. The Prosecution has reserves aboutnit and that came directly to me from the mouth of a member of the PPS. They had serious concerns over the conduct of the investigation by the police and that was clear due to how some of the evidence was accumulated. It was a poor trial and maybe it may have been different if the police had carried out their job correctly but it is what it is and that will never change. They were found not guilty and the door has now closed on their case and the next stage of their lives and the complainants will now begin. This has been talked to death and I’ve nothing left to say.

But a judge can direct a jury to acquit and the defence can apply for a Galbraith ruling to have the charges dismissed.

I'm not sure about the latter, but the former is a not uncommon occurrence.

In your post, you state that "it may have been different had the police carried out their job correctly".

Well, there we go. And some folks wonder why there were protests, eh.

Both are becoming more and more uncommon in recent years. There's a judgement from last year about how if there's any chance a jury can convict (as opposed to will or should convict) then the matter should be left to the jury. The judgement was to do with the murder of Robert Hamil.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 15, 2018, 09:48:01 AM
Tommy Tiernan giving it large during his stand up... I wonder making jokes about a rape case will get the feminists out
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: nrico2006 on April 15, 2018, 10:14:43 AM
The trial was always going to run its whole course. The Prosecution has reserves aboutnit and that came directly to me from the mouth of a member of the PPS. They had serious concerns over the conduct of the investigation by the police and that was clear due to how some of the evidence was accumulated. It was a poor trial and maybe it may have been different if the police had carried out their job correctly but it is what it is and that will never change. They were found not guilty and the door has now closed on their case and the next stage of their lives and the complainants will now begin. This has been talked to death and I’ve nothing left to say.

But a judge can direct a jury to acquit and the defence can apply for a Galbraith ruling to have the charges dismissed.

I'm not sure about the latter, but the former is a not uncommon occurrence.

In your post, you state that "it may have been different had the police carried out their job correctly".

Well, there we go. And some folks wonder why there were protests, eh.

Both are becoming more and more uncommon in recent years. There's a judgement from last year about how if there's any chance a jury can convict (as opposed to will or should convict) then the matter should be left to the jury. The judgement was to do with the murder of Robert Hamil.

Genuine question - why in some trials can previous convictions be revealed and used and in others they cant?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on April 15, 2018, 10:20:35 AM
The trial was always going to run its whole course. The Prosecution has reserves aboutnit and that came directly to me from the mouth of a member of the PPS. They had serious concerns over the conduct of the investigation by the police and that was clear due to how some of the evidence was accumulated. It was a poor trial and maybe it may have been different if the police had carried out their job correctly but it is what it is and that will never change. They were found not guilty and the door has now closed on their case and the next stage of their lives and the complainants will now begin. This has been talked to death and I’ve nothing left to say.

But a judge can direct a jury to acquit and the defence can apply for a Galbraith ruling to have the charges dismissed.

I'm not sure about the latter, but the former is a not uncommon occurrence.

In your post, you state that "it may have been different had the police carried out their job correctly".

Well, there we go. And some folks wonder why there were protests, eh.

Both are becoming more and more uncommon in recent years. There's a judgement from last year about how if there's any chance a jury can convict (as opposed to will or should convict) then the matter should be left to the jury. The judgement was to do with the murder of Robert Hamil.

Genuine question - why in some trials can previous convictions be revealed and used and in others they cant?

For the purposes of sentencing the judge will always have a copy of the defendants record. It is generally only brought into the actual trial itself when the defendant makes the argument that they are of good character. The prosecution can then make an ‘Bad Character’ application to bring in your previous convictions as a means to rebut the good character arguments.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: nrico2006 on April 15, 2018, 10:26:59 AM
Just something that popped into my head regarding the key difference in the Robert Howard and Robert Black trials. No evidence on Black for the Curdy murder really, yet his past was the reason he was convicted. Jury in Howards trial were not allowed to be told of his previous murder convictions though and he got off.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on April 15, 2018, 10:35:55 AM
Just something that popped into my head regarding the key difference in the Robert Howard and Robert Black trials. No evidence on Black for the Curdy murder really, yet his past was the reason he was convicted. Jury in Howards trial were not allowed to be told of his previous murder convictions though and he got off.

The Defence have to basically ‘open the door’.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: bennydorano on April 15, 2018, 10:53:23 AM
Paddy Jackson for Clermont according to the Sunday Times.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Owen Brannigan on April 15, 2018, 10:56:44 AM
Paddy Jackson for Clermont according to the Sunday Times.

Olding to Exeter.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: longballin on April 15, 2018, 11:07:40 AM
Just something that popped into my head regarding the key difference in the Robert Howard and Robert Black trials. No evidence on Black for the Curdy murder really, yet his past was the reason he was convicted. Jury in Howards trial were not allowed to be told of his previous murder convictions though and he got off.

That's correct. Was strange the Black trial but verdict 100% right imo. Don't think there was a child murder of that nature before for decades here or since and he was in area at the time. Wicked individual.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 15, 2018, 11:47:54 AM
Paddy Jackson for Clermont according to the Sunday Times.

Olding to Exeter.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-5616367/Paddy-Jackson-struggles-new-club-despite-cut-price-deal.html#comments-5616367

The 25-cap No 10 has also been touted around France, but several English clubs have already turned down his services.

‘Even though he was found not guilty, it would take a brave club to sign him,’ one director of rugby told the Mail on Sunday.

‘He’s been offered everywhere but a family club wouldn’t want to be associated with those messages
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: David McKeown on April 15, 2018, 11:55:47 AM
Just something that popped into my head regarding the key difference in the Robert Howard and Robert Black trials. No evidence on Black for the Curdy murder really, yet his past was the reason he was convicted. Jury in Howards trial were not allowed to be told of his previous murder convictions though and he got off.

That's correct. Was strange the Black trial but verdict 100% right imo. Don't think there was a child murder of that nature before for decades here or since and he was in area at the time. Wicked individual.

In addition to what BCBhas said There are ways for the prosecution to adduce defendants bad character. Without getting into technical details the convictions they have to adduce must be either similar fact convictions ie convictions for the same or similar offences and with the same or similar circumstances or they must show that the defendant has a propensity to commit this type of offence for example if they are a notorious shoplifter. The evidence will be kept from the jury except in those three scenarios on the basis that the jury should try the case on the basis of the evidence in a particular trial and not on the basis of what's been done previously.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: nrico2006 on April 15, 2018, 12:41:55 PM
Just something that popped into my head regarding the key difference in the Robert Howard and Robert Black trials. No evidence on Black for the Curdy murder really, yet his past was the reason he was convicted. Jury in Howards trial were not allowed to be told of his previous murder convictions though and he got off.

That's correct. Was strange the Black trial but verdict 100% right imo. Don't think there was a child murder of that nature before for decades here or since and he was in area at the time. Wicked individual.

In addition to what BCBhas said There are ways for the prosecution to adduce defendants bad character. Without getting into technical details the convictions they have to adduce must be either similar fact convictions ie convictions for the same or similar offences and with the same or similar circumstances or they must show that the defendant has a propensity to commit this type of offence for example if they are a notorious shoplifter. The evidence will be kept from the jury except in those three scenarios on the basis that the jury should try the case on the basis of the evidence in a particular trial and not on the basis of what's been done previously.

Howard had previous convictions of a similar nature to what he was accused with regard to Arkinson, but it wasnt allowed to be revealed in court. On the flip side though, i know that Black was an evil sc**bag but the logic applied for his conviction doesnt sit well with me either. Surely there is a higher threshold of evidence required for a murder conviction than the fact he was in that town on the day of the murder.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 15, 2018, 12:56:04 PM
Paddy Jackson for Clermont according to the Sunday Times.

Olding to Exeter.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-5616367/Paddy-Jackson-struggles-new-club-despite-cut-price-deal.html#comments-5616367

The 25-cap No 10 has also been touted around France, but several English clubs have already turned down his services.

‘Even though he was found not guilty, it would take a brave club to sign him,’ one director of rugby told the Mail on Sunday.

‘He’s been offered everywhere but a family club wouldn’t want to be associated with those messages

Clermont must not be a family club
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on April 15, 2018, 01:08:45 PM
So all the clubs that had no interest in them are family clubs?

Must have been an awful weekend for you seeing your heroes being forced to emigrate due to their own actions.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: sid waddell on April 15, 2018, 01:12:16 PM
Jackson to Wasps would be very appropriate - he's an irritating little pest who you'd love to see get swatted, and the best thing for it is for him to be sent to Coventry.


Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 15, 2018, 02:21:36 PM
So all the clubs that had no interest in them are family clubs?

Must have been an awful weekend for you seeing your heroes being forced to emigrate due to their own actions.

You must be 12 if you still look at sports men as hero’s! The only hero’s I like are in a tin box! The sweetie variety..

You must have 2 computers going now!  :)
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: longballin on April 15, 2018, 03:53:34 PM
Just something that popped into my head regarding the key difference in the Robert Howard and Robert Black trials. No evidence on Black for the Curdy murder really, yet his past was the reason he was convicted. Jury in Howards trial were not allowed to be told of his previous murder convictions though and he got off.

That's correct. Was strange the Black trial but verdict 100% right imo. Don't think there was a child murder of that nature before for decades here or since and he was in area at the time. Wicked individual.

In addition to what BCBhas said There are ways for the prosecution to adduce defendants bad character. Without getting into technical details the convictions they have to adduce must be either similar fact convictions ie convictions for the same or similar offences and with the same or similar circumstances or they must show that the defendant has a propensity to commit this type of offence for example if they are a notorious shoplifter. The evidence will be kept from the jury except in those three scenarios on the basis that the jury should try the case on the basis of the evidence in a particular trial and not on the basis of what's been done previously.

Howard had previous convictions of a similar nature to what he was accused with regard to Arkinson, but it wasnt allowed to be revealed in court. On the flip side though, i know that Black was an evil sc**bag but the logic applied for his conviction doesnt sit well with me either. Surely there is a higher threshold of evidence required for a murder conviction than the fact he was in that town on the day of the murder.

Evidence plenty if you study the case
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Main Street on April 15, 2018, 04:22:02 PM
......
What is annoying (slightly) is the bandwagon vegan treehuggers feminists crowd who have become a ‘movement’ and refused to accept the rule of law and using this high profile case as a platform to make news and ‘educate’ men .. they’d do well to protest at such tv programmes like Ex on the beach, Geordie shore, love island! The tr**p talk from the women on those shows is a lot worse.. ........
It isn't so much that things slightly annoy you, it's more that you get (interminably) annoyed by the slightest things and go on and on  ::)
You appear have an existence littered with misfortune, not only being constantly annoyed over this and that event in society, sneering at one and all but also (according your account) accidentally landing face to face with such pulp tv content, but to the extent that you took notes and have opinions. ;D
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 15, 2018, 05:19:51 PM
......
What is annoying (slightly) is the bandwagon vegan treehuggers feminists crowd who have become a ‘movement’ and refused to accept the rule of law and using this high profile case as a platform to make news and ‘educate’ men .. they’d do well to protest at such tv programmes like Ex on the beach, Geordie shore, love island! The tr**p talk from the women on those shows is a lot worse.. ........
It isn't so much that things slightly annoy you, it's more that you get (interminably) annoyed by the slightest things and go on and on  ::)
You appear have an existence littered with misfortune, not only being constantly annoyed over this and that event in society, sneering at one and all but also (according your account) accidentally landing face to face with such pulp tv content, but to the extent that you took notes and have opinions. ;D

Eh? Opinions are like arseholes everyone has one..

You’re not immune to talking shit, and if you take things too serious on here then you need your head looked at!
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: nrico2006 on April 15, 2018, 06:46:02 PM
Just something that popped into my head regarding the key difference in the Robert Howard and Robert Black trials. No evidence on Black for the Curdy murder really, yet his past was the reason he was convicted. Jury in Howards trial were not allowed to be told of his previous murder convictions though and he got off.

That's correct. Was strange the Black trial but verdict 100% right imo. Don't think there was a child murder of that nature before for decades here or since and he was in area at the time. Wicked individual.

In addition to what BCBhas said There are ways for the prosecution to adduce defendants bad character. Without getting into technical details the convictions they have to adduce must be either similar fact convictions ie convictions for the same or similar offences and with the same or similar circumstances or they must show that the defendant has a propensity to commit this type of offence for example if they are a notorious shoplifter. The evidence will be kept from the jury except in those three scenarios on the basis that the jury should try the case on the basis of the evidence in a particular trial and not on the basis of what's been done previously.

Howard had previous convictions of a similar nature to what he was accused with regard to Arkinson, but it wasnt allowed to be revealed in court. On the flip side though, i know that Black was an evil sc**bag but the logic applied for his conviction doesnt sit well with me either. Surely there is a higher threshold of evidence required for a murder conviction than the fact he was in that town on the day of the murder.

Evidence plenty if you study the case

Was the receipt not the key evidence though?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: longballin on April 15, 2018, 07:00:39 PM
Just something that popped into my head regarding the key difference in the Robert Howard and Robert Black trials. No evidence on Black for the Curdy murder really, yet his past was the reason he was convicted. Jury in Howards trial were not allowed to be told of his previous murder convictions though and he got off.

That's correct. Was strange the Black trial but verdict 100% right imo. Don't think there was a child murder of that nature before for decades here or since and he was in area at the time. Wicked individual.

In addition to what BCBhas said There are ways for the prosecution to adduce defendants bad character. Without getting into technical details the convictions they have to adduce must be either similar fact convictions ie convictions for the same or similar offences and with the same or similar circumstances or they must show that the defendant has a propensity to commit this type of offence for example if they are a notorious shoplifter. The evidence will be kept from the jury except in those three scenarios on the basis that the jury should try the case on the basis of the evidence in a particular trial and not on the basis of what's been done previously.

Howard had previous convictions of a similar nature to what he was accused with regard to Arkinson, but it wasnt allowed to be revealed in court. On the flip side though, i know that Black was an evil sc**bag but the logic applied for his conviction doesnt sit well with me either. Surely there is a higher threshold of evidence required for a murder conviction than the fact he was in that town on the day of the murder.

Evidence plenty if you study the case

Was the receipt not the key evidence though?

was total circumstantial but pointed to guilt beyond reasonable doubt.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Owen Brannigan on April 15, 2018, 07:14:58 PM
https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/other-rugby/paddy-jackson-paid-off-close-to-his-contract-value-in-irfu-exit-deal-36807827.html (https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/other-rugby/paddy-jackson-paid-off-close-to-his-contract-value-in-irfu-exit-deal-36807827.html)
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Lar Naparka on April 15, 2018, 09:23:58 PM
They cant be sacked for taking part in a threesome, therefore their private messages got them sacked. Surprised Gilroy was treated differently. Should every employee now be cautious over what they text or whatsapp as it could get you in bother with your employers?

Well yes, if you’ve a professional job like health service (doctor, nurse) or teaching or something along those lines you may find that you could be in murky waters


I doubt it. The messages only came into play when they were accused of rape.

As regards teaching. Arrested for a row in a chipper could be enough for a dismissal. Even if there was no conviction. A rape accusation -forget about. Even if you were aquitted.

These are the broad guidelines for dismissal for 'social' behaviour.

Complaints about certain matters that relate to conduct outside the course of a registered teacher’s profession on grounds such as convictions for certain offences, and where the conduct is of such a serious nature as would bring the profession into disrepute.


 Complaint against a registered teacher can relate to any school-related professional activity, or any activity or role undertaken in their capacity as a registered teacher.




Did you know that teachers weren't allowed to live above a pub at one time? Things have moved on a bit but maybe not a lot.
Bank staff could not join GAA clubs until about 30 years ago or thereabouts.
Some things have changed and life has moved on but  NSFW images and texts haven't and those WhatsApp texts fall into that category.
The boyos may have intended keeping their boastful texts private but it's their own hard luck that they were found out and I get the distinct from talking to others around me that many who felt the verdict was justified are disgusted by the  contents of the texts. "Laddish" behaviour okay but loutish also.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 15, 2018, 09:32:10 PM
They cant be sacked for taking part in a threesome, therefore their private messages got them sacked. Surprised Gilroy was treated differently. Should every employee now be cautious over what they text or whatsapp as it could get you in bother with your employers?

Well yes, if you’ve a professional job like health service (doctor, nurse) or teaching or something along those lines you may find that you could be in murky waters


I doubt it. The messages only came into play when they were accused of rape.

As regards teaching. Arrested for a row in a chipper could be enough for a dismissal. Even if there was no conviction. A rape accusation -forget about. Even if you were aquitted.

These are the broad guidelines for dismissal for 'social' behaviour.

Complaints about certain matters that relate to conduct outside the course of a registered teacher’s profession on grounds such as convictions for certain offences, and where the conduct is of such a serious nature as would bring the profession into disrepute.


 Complaint against a registered teacher can relate to any school-related professional activity, or any activity or role undertaken in their capacity as a registered teacher.




Did you know that teachers weren't allowed to live above a pub at one time? Things have moved on a bit but maybe not a lot.
Bank staff could not join GAA clubs until about 30 years ago or thereabouts.
Some things have changed and life has moved on but  NSFW images and texts haven't and those WhatsApp texts fall into that category.
The boyos may have intended keeping their boastful texts private but it's their own hard luck that they were found out and I get the distinct from talking to others around me that many who felt the verdict was justified are disgusted by the  contents of the texts. "Laddish" behaviour okay but loutish also.
Suzanne Moore in the Guardian said they were not guilty but vilely misogynistic. This is why they got the heave ho.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Tubberman on April 15, 2018, 09:42:13 PM
They cant be sacked for taking part in a threesome, therefore their private messages got them sacked. Surprised Gilroy was treated differently. Should every employee now be cautious over what they text or whatsapp as it could get you in bother with your employers?

Well yes, if you’ve a professional job like health service (doctor, nurse) or teaching or something along those lines you may find that you could be in murky waters


I doubt it. The messages only came into play when they were accused of rape.

As regards teaching. Arrested for a row in a chipper could be enough for a dismissal. Even if there was no conviction. A rape accusation -forget about. Even if you were aquitted.

These are the broad guidelines for dismissal for 'social' behaviour.

Complaints about certain matters that relate to conduct outside the course of a registered teacher’s profession on grounds such as convictions for certain offences, and where the conduct is of such a serious nature as would bring the profession into disrepute.


 Complaint against a registered teacher can relate to any school-related professional activity, or any activity or role undertaken in their capacity as a registered teacher.




Did you know that teachers weren't allowed to live above a pub at one time? Things have moved on a bit but maybe not a lot.
Bank staff could not join GAA clubs until about 30 years ago or thereabouts.
Some things have changed and life has moved on but  NSFW images and texts haven't and those WhatsApp texts fall into that category.
The boyos may have intended keeping their boastful texts private but it's their own hard luck that they were found out and I get the distinct from talking to others around me that many who felt the verdict was justified are disgusted by the  contents of the texts. "Laddish" behaviour okay but loutish also.

where did you hear that bank staff couldn't join a GAA club up until late 80s? Sure banks had their own clubs long before then
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Lar Naparka on April 15, 2018, 10:02:09 PM
They cant be sacked for taking part in a threesome, therefore their private messages got them sacked. Surprised Gilroy was treated differently. Should every employee now be cautious over what they text or whatsapp as it could get you in bother with your employers?

Well yes, if you’ve a professional job like health service (doctor, nurse) or teaching or something along those lines you may find that you could be in murky waters


I doubt it. The messages only came into play when they were accused of rape.

As regards teaching. Arrested for a row in a chipper could be enough for a dismissal. Even if there was no conviction. A rape accusation -forget about. Even if you were aquitted.

These are the broad guidelines for dismissal for 'social' behaviour.

Complaints about certain matters that relate to conduct outside the course of a registered teacher’s profession on grounds such as convictions for certain offences, and where the conduct is of such a serious nature as would bring the profession into disrepute.


 Complaint against a registered teacher can relate to any school-related professional activity, or any activity or role undertaken in their capacity as a registered teacher.




Did you know that teachers weren't allowed to live above a pub at one time? Things have moved on a bit but maybe not a lot.
Bank staff could not join GAA clubs until about 30 years ago or thereabouts.
Some things have changed and life has moved on but  NSFW images and texts haven't and those WhatsApp texts fall into that category.
The boyos may have intended keeping their boastful texts private but it's their own hard luck that they were found out and I get the distinct from talking to others around me that many who felt the verdict was justified are disgusted by the  contents of the texts. "Laddish" behaviour okay but loutish also.

where did you hear that bank staff couldn't join a GAA club up until late 80s? Sure banks had their own clubs long before then
May be inaccurate with the time okay but my son in law who was a bank manager told me it was true at one time. Tennis, golf, rugby okay but GAA out of bounds. I heard it 30 years ago or thereabouts but I didn't get find out when the ban was lifted or fell into disuse more likely.
Will check it out and  come back.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: sid waddell on April 15, 2018, 10:46:02 PM
Suzanne Moore in the Guardian said they were not guilty but vilely misogynistic. This is why they got the heave ho.
I can remember when the IRFU were happy to be associated with Digital.

No longer.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: magpie seanie on April 16, 2018, 09:04:20 AM
Exeter have distanced themselves from Olding this morning. I would have been surprised if they'd signed either of them.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Taylor on April 16, 2018, 09:14:28 AM
So the fem nazis have succeeded in making sure the two boys dont play in Ireland again. The should be happy with their work

Who is the next target for them?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: magpie seanie on April 16, 2018, 09:17:27 AM
So the fem nazis have succeeded in making sure the two boys dont play in Ireland again. The should be happy with their work

Who is the next target for them?


No. It was their own actions that got them the door. They've accepted that. I suggest you and the other saddos who can't accept this do likewise.

There was no other decision that could have been made.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Taylor on April 16, 2018, 09:20:29 AM
So the fem nazis have succeeded in making sure the two boys dont play in Ireland again. The should be happy with their work

Who is the next target for them?


No. It was their own actions that got them the door. They've accepted that. I suggest you and the other saddos who can't accept this do likewise.

There was no other decision that could have been made.

No need to resort to personal abuse MS.  :-\

How has Gilroy got off with a sanction if the Whats App messages were the crux of the problem?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: magpie seanie on April 16, 2018, 09:23:16 AM
So the fem nazis have succeeded in making sure the two boys dont play in Ireland again. The should be happy with their work

Who is the next target for them?


No. It was their own actions that got them the door. They've accepted that. I suggest you and the other saddos who can't accept this do likewise.

There was no other decision that could have been made.

No need to resort to personal abuse MS.  :-\

How has Gilroy got off with a sanction if the Whats App messages were the crux of the problem?


As has already been mentioned he wasn't charged with rape. He didn't leave a girl bleeding and distressed. And I believe he has been sanctioned in some way, just not sacked.

I shouldn't have said saddos - I apologise.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: DuffleKing on April 16, 2018, 09:24:43 AM
Why was Gilroy not sacked by the same reasoning?

Olding and Jackson have been sacked because their social / private lives fall short of the ethical behaviour the their employers expect (lets hope they don't thoroughly investigate all of the 18 - 35 year olds in their employment or next year's world cup is a non runner).
Gilroy has ably demonstrated that he is of a like mind in terms of this these private life activities and contributed to the "locker room behavior" that is being so widely opined.

Of the leader of the free world has set these private life standards already.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: magpie seanie on April 16, 2018, 09:26:56 AM
Why was Gilroy not sacked by the same reasoning?

Olding and Jackson have been sacked because their social / private lives fall short of the ethical behaviour the their employers expect (lets hope they don't thoroughly investigate all of the 18 - 35 year olds in their employment or next year's world cup is a non runner).
Gilroy has ably demonstrated that he is of a like mind in terms of this these private life activities and contributed to the "locker room behavior" that is being so widely opined.

Of the leader of the free world has set these private life standards already.


Seriously?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Taylor on April 16, 2018, 09:28:37 AM
Surely they cant be sacked for being found not guilty and are therefore innocent?

Olding had nothing to do with the girl bleeding.

I can only assume it was the Whats App messages they got the road for?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Taylor on April 16, 2018, 09:29:15 AM
So the fem nazis have succeeded in making sure the two boys dont play in Ireland again. The should be happy with their work

Who is the next target for them?


No. It was their own actions that got them the door. They've accepted that. I suggest you and the other saddos who can't accept this do likewise.

There was no other decision that could have been made.

No need to resort to personal abuse MS.  :-\

How has Gilroy got off with a sanction if the Whats App messages were the crux of the problem?


As has already been mentioned he wasn't charged with rape. He didn't leave a girl bleeding and distressed. And I believe he has been sanctioned in some way, just not sacked.

I shouldn't have said saddos - I apologise.

Accepted
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Orchard park on April 16, 2018, 09:30:45 AM
They cant be sacked for taking part in a threesome, therefore their private messages got them sacked. Surprised Gilroy was treated differently. Should every employee now be cautious over what they text or whatsapp as it could get you in bother with your employers?

Well yes, if you’ve a professional job like health service (doctor, nurse) or teaching or something along those lines you may find that you could be in murky waters


I doubt it. The messages only came into play when they were accused of rape.

As regards teaching. Arrested for a row in a chipper could be enough for a dismissal. Even if there was no conviction. A rape accusation -forget about. Even if you were aquitted.

These are the broad guidelines for dismissal for 'social' behaviour.

Complaints about certain matters that relate to conduct outside the course of a registered teacher’s profession on grounds such as convictions for certain offences, and where the conduct is of such a serious nature as would bring the profession into disrepute.


 Complaint against a registered teacher can relate to any school-related professional activity, or any activity or role undertaken in their capacity as a registered teacher.




Did you know that teachers weren't allowed to live above a pub at one time? Things have moved on a bit but maybe not a lot.
Bank staff could not join GAA clubs until about 30 years ago or thereabouts.
Some things have changed and life has moved on but  NSFW images and texts haven't and those WhatsApp texts fall into that category.
The boyos may have intended keeping their boastful texts private but it's their own hard luck that they were found out and I get the distinct from talking to others around me that many who felt the verdict was justified are disgusted by the  contents of the texts. "Laddish" behaviour okay but loutish also.

where did you hear that bank staff couldn't join a GAA club up until late 80s? Sure banks had their own clubs long before then
May be inaccurate with the time okay but my son in law who was a bank manager told me it was true at one time. Tennis, golf, rugby okay but GAA out of bounds. I heard it 30 years ago or thereabouts but I didn't get find out when the ban was lifted or fell into disuse more likely.
Will check it out and  come back.

would call that out as an urban myth. perhaps in Northern and Ulster it wasnt encouraged and wouldn't be relevant in loads of circumstances but certainly not AIB or BOI
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: DuffleKing on April 16, 2018, 09:35:55 AM
As has already been mentioned he wasn't charged with rape. He didn't leave a girl bleeding and distressed. And I believe he has been sanctioned in some way, just not sacked.

I shouldn't have said saddos - I apologise.

These men have been presumed innocent of accusations of sexual assault and rape from the moment they were made and unanimously found not guilty by a jury of their peers of the same charges. They are and cannot be disciplined for any of those charges legally. If you don't understand that you disqualify yourself from being take seriously in these debates.

These two men have been sacked because their employers have an ethical issue with how they conduct their private lives - pure and simple. That is a very dangerous precedent as they now have to follow it up. It's a very good job that the IRFU don't apply these standards retrospectively or, for example, one of the world's best half backs would be out on his ear also.

Where else is this moral code to be applied? How about employees who take performance enhancing drugs? What about players who take recreational drugs or use legal narcotics in doses that induce well being effects? What about Ulster players who are members of the Orange Order? Drink driving offences? Slapping their children?

Pandora's box is opened and you can be sure that every personal indiscretion of IRFU employees going forward will be thrown on the altar for moral judgement.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: magpie seanie on April 16, 2018, 09:43:02 AM
As has already been mentioned he wasn't charged with rape. He didn't leave a girl bleeding and distressed. And I believe he has been sanctioned in some way, just not sacked.

I shouldn't have said saddos - I apologise.

These men have been presumed innocent of accusations of sexual assault and rape from the moment and unanimously found not guilty by a jury of their peers of the same charges. They are and cannot be disciplined for any of those charges legally. If you don't understand that you disqualify yourself from being take seriously in these debates.

These two men have been sacked because their employers have an ethical issue with how they conduct their private lives - pure and simple. That is a very dangerous precedent as they now have to follow it up. It's a very good job that the IRFU don't apply these standards retrospectively or, for example, one of the world's best half backs would be out on his ear also.

Where else is this moral code to be applied? How about employees who take performance enhancing drugs? What about players who take recreational drugs or use legal narcotics in doses that induce well being effects? What about Ulster players who are members of the Orange Order? Drink driving offences? Slapping their children?

Pandora's box is opened and you can be sure that every personal indiscretion of IRFU employees going forward will be throw on the altar for moral judgement.


You do understand there's a difference between when someone maintains they gave consent and another person maintains they did not give consent - do you?

As we're aware of, the bar for a criminal conviction is very high as it should be. Not being convicted doesn't mean their behaviour was fine. They knew this girl was upset at the very least. They brought this on themselves with their actions. Any sympathy for them is grossly misplaced.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 16, 2018, 09:46:19 AM
As has already been mentioned he wasn't charged with rape. He didn't leave a girl bleeding and distressed. And I believe he has been sanctioned in some way, just not sacked.

I shouldn't have said saddos - I apologise.

These men have been presumed innocent of accusations of sexual assault and rape from the moment they were made and unanimously found not guilty by a jury of their peers of the same charges. They are and cannot be disciplined for any of those charges legally. If you don't understand that you disqualify yourself from being take seriously in these debates.

These two men have been sacked because their employers have an ethical issue with how they conduct their private lives - pure and simple. That is a very dangerous precedent as they now have to follow it up. It's a very good job that the IRFU don't apply these standards retrospectively or, for example, one of the world's best half backs would be out on his ear also.

Where else is this moral code to be applied? How about employees who take performance enhancing drugs? What about players who take recreational drugs or use legal narcotics in doses that induce well being effects? What about Ulster players who are members of the Orange Order? Drink driving offences? Slapping their children?

Pandora's box is opened and you can be sure that every personal indiscretion of IRFU employees going forward will be throw on the altar for moral judgement.
They got the boot because of reputational damage that was being done to ULster rugby and the IRFU by association with their social media messaging, which was revealed as part of the court case.
Most civilians will not have their Snapchats dissected in the Belfast Telegraph so it is wrong to compare an average punter with these legends. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWmkuH1k7uA 
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: DuffleKing on April 16, 2018, 09:53:26 AM
As has already been mentioned he wasn't charged with rape. He didn't leave a girl bleeding and distressed. And I believe he has been sanctioned in some way, just not sacked.

I shouldn't have said saddos - I apologise.

These men have been presumed innocent of accusations of sexual assault and rape from the moment and unanimously found not guilty by a jury of their peers of the same charges. They are and cannot be disciplined for any of those charges legally. If you don't understand that you disqualify yourself from being take seriously in these debates.

These two men have been sacked because their employers have an ethical issue with how they conduct their private lives - pure and simple. That is a very dangerous precedent as they now have to follow it up. It's a very good job that the IRFU don't apply these standards retrospectively or, for example, one of the world's best half backs would be out on his ear also.

Where else is this moral code to be applied? How about employees who take performance enhancing drugs? What about players who take recreational drugs or use legal narcotics in doses that induce well being effects? What about Ulster players who are members of the Orange Order? Drink driving offences? Slapping their children?

Pandora's box is opened and you can be sure that every personal indiscretion of IRFU employees going forward will be throw on the altar for moral judgement.


You do understand there's a difference between when someone maintains they gave consent and another person maintains they did not give consent - do you?

As we're aware of, the bar for a criminal conviction is very high as it should be. Not being convicted doesn't mean their behaviour was fine. They knew this girl was upset at the very least. They brought this on themselves with their actions. Any sympathy for them is grossly misplaced.

Legally, charges that they have been found not guilty of cannot be used as part of their dismissal - surely you grasp that? The trial cannot be used as part of the IRFU's reasoning.

This is very clear - irrespective of how much smoke and dust that is kicked up around it - these two players have been sacked because of how they conduct themselves in their personal lives irrespective of those actions being perfectly legal.

Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: HiMucker on April 16, 2018, 09:57:39 AM
As has already been mentioned he wasn't charged with rape. He didn't leave a girl bleeding and distressed. And I believe he has been sanctioned in some way, just not sacked.

I shouldn't have said saddos - I apologise.

These men have been presumed innocent of accusations of sexual assault and rape from the moment and unanimously found not guilty by a jury of their peers of the same charges. They are and cannot be disciplined for any of those charges legally. If you don't understand that you disqualify yourself from being take seriously in these debates.

These two men have been sacked because their employers have an ethical issue with how they conduct their private lives - pure and simple. That is a very dangerous precedent as they now have to follow it up. It's a very good job that the IRFU don't apply these standards retrospectively or, for example, one of the world's best half backs would be out on his ear also.

Where else is this moral code to be applied? How about employees who take performance enhancing drugs? What about players who take recreational drugs or use legal narcotics in doses that induce well being effects? What about Ulster players who are members of the Orange Order? Drink driving offences? Slapping their children?

Pandora's box is opened and you can be sure that every personal indiscretion of IRFU employees going forward will be throw on the altar for moral judgement.


You do understand there's a difference between when someone maintains they gave consent and another person maintains they did not give consent - do you?

As we're aware of, the bar for a criminal conviction is very high as it should be. Not being convicted doesn't mean their behaviour was fine. They knew this girl was upset at the very least. They brought this on themselves with their actions. Any sympathy for them is grossly misplaced.

Legally, charges that they have been found not guilty of cannot be used as part of their dismissal - surely you grasp that? The trial cannot be used as part of the IRFU's reasoning.

This is very clear - irrespective of how much smoke and dust that is kicked up around it - these two players have been sacked because of how they conduct themselves in their personal lives irrespective of those actions being perfectly legal.
That is simply not true.  I don't know why this line continues to be pedalled out. 
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: magpie seanie on April 16, 2018, 09:59:34 AM
As has already been mentioned he wasn't charged with rape. He didn't leave a girl bleeding and distressed. And I believe he has been sanctioned in some way, just not sacked.

I shouldn't have said saddos - I apologise.

These men have been presumed innocent of accusations of sexual assault and rape from the moment and unanimously found not guilty by a jury of their peers of the same charges. They are and cannot be disciplined for any of those charges legally. If you don't understand that you disqualify yourself from being take seriously in these debates.

These two men have been sacked because their employers have an ethical issue with how they conduct their private lives - pure and simple. That is a very dangerous precedent as they now have to follow it up. It's a very good job that the IRFU don't apply these standards retrospectively or, for example, one of the world's best half backs would be out on his ear also.

Where else is this moral code to be applied? How about employees who take performance enhancing drugs? What about players who take recreational drugs or use legal narcotics in doses that induce well being effects? What about Ulster players who are members of the Orange Order? Drink driving offences? Slapping their children?

Pandora's box is opened and you can be sure that every personal indiscretion of IRFU employees going forward will be throw on the altar for moral judgement.


You do understand there's a difference between when someone maintains they gave consent and another person maintains they did not give consent - do you?

As we're aware of, the bar for a criminal conviction is very high as it should be. Not being convicted doesn't mean their behaviour was fine. They knew this girl was upset at the very least. They brought this on themselves with their actions. Any sympathy for them is grossly misplaced.

Legally, charges that they have been found not guilty of cannot be used as part of their dismissal - surely you grasp that? The trial cannot be used as part of the IRFU's reasoning.

This is very clear - irrespective of how much smoke and dust that is kicked up around it - these two players have been sacked because of how they conduct themselves in their personal lives irrespective of those actions being perfectly legal.
That is simply not true.  I don't know why this line continues to be pedalled out.


Exactly. Completely untrue. I wouldn't mind but it's not even that far back on this thread where it has been stated that in other professions people are let go if they get arrested.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: David McKeown on April 16, 2018, 10:15:12 AM
As has already been mentioned he wasn't charged with rape. He didn't leave a girl bleeding and distressed. And I believe he has been sanctioned in some way, just not sacked.

I shouldn't have said saddos - I apologise.

These men have been presumed innocent of accusations of sexual assault and rape from the moment and unanimously found not guilty by a jury of their peers of the same charges. They are and cannot be disciplined for any of those charges legally. If you don't understand that you disqualify yourself from being take seriously in these debates.

These two men have been sacked because their employers have an ethical issue with how they conduct their private lives - pure and simple. That is a very dangerous precedent as they now have to follow it up. It's a very good job that the IRFU don't apply these standards retrospectively or, for example, one of the world's best half backs would be out on his ear also.

Where else is this moral code to be applied? How about employees who take performance enhancing drugs? What about players who take recreational drugs or use legal narcotics in doses that induce well being effects? What about Ulster players who are members of the Orange Order? Drink driving offences? Slapping their children?

Pandora's box is opened and you can be sure that every personal indiscretion of IRFU employees going forward will be throw on the altar for moral judgement.


You do understand there's a difference between when someone maintains they gave consent and another person maintains they did not give consent - do you?

As we're aware of, the bar for a criminal conviction is very high as it should be. Not being convicted doesn't mean their behaviour was fine. They knew this girl was upset at the very least. They brought this on themselves with their actions. Any sympathy for them is grossly misplaced.

Legally, charges that they have been found not guilty of cannot be used as part of their dismissal - surely you grasp that? The trial cannot be used as part of the IRFU's reasoning.

This is very clear - irrespective of how much smoke and dust that is kicked up around it - these two players have been sacked because of how they conduct themselves in their personal lives irrespective of those actions being perfectly legal.
That is simply not true.  I don't know why this line continues to be pedalled out.


Exactly. Completely untrue. I wouldn't mind but it's not even that far back on this thread where it has been stated that in other professions people are let go if they get arrested.

Indeed it's entirely incorrect. There's nothing in law to prevent the IRFU doing their own investigation and reaching an entirely different conclusion. Any investigation should be fair and based on evidence and not simply what's been reported in the press. That said the admissions made by the two players when taken with their apologises is probably enough if not for termination for cause (to use the American) at least to make the outcome a foregone conclusion.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: sid waddell on April 16, 2018, 10:24:07 AM
So the fem nazis have succeeded in making sure the two boys dont play in Ireland again. The should be happy with their work

Who is the next target for them?


No. It was their own actions that got them the door. They've accepted that. I suggest you and the other saddos who can't accept this do likewise.

There was no other decision that could have been made.

No need to resort to personal abuse MS.  :-\

How has Gilroy got off with a sanction if the Whats App messages were the crux of the problem?

I'm not sure if you get the irony of complaining about the term "saddos" while using the term "Nazis".
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Taylor on April 16, 2018, 10:33:56 AM
So the fem nazis have succeeded in making sure the two boys dont play in Ireland again. The should be happy with their work

Who is the next target for them?


No. It was their own actions that got them the door. They've accepted that. I suggest you and the other saddos who can't accept this do likewise.

There was no other decision that could have been made.

No need to resort to personal abuse MS.  :-\

How has Gilroy got off with a sanction if the Whats App messages were the crux of the problem?

I'm not sure if you get the irony of complaining about the term "saddos" while using the term "Nazis".

Did I make it personal to MS? Thought not. Move along Syf
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 16, 2018, 10:46:38 AM
If Sid is also Syf then Larnaparka must be Indiana.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: sid waddell on April 16, 2018, 11:07:26 AM
So the fem nazis have succeeded in making sure the two boys dont play in Ireland again. The should be happy with their work

Who is the next target for them?


No. It was their own actions that got them the door. They've accepted that. I suggest you and the other saddos who can't accept this do likewise.

There was no other decision that could have been made.

No need to resort to personal abuse MS.  :-\

How has Gilroy got off with a sanction if the Whats App messages were the crux of the problem?

I'm not sure if you get the irony of complaining about the term "saddos" while using the term "Nazis".

Did I make it personal to MS? Thought not. Move along Syf
So you didn't get the irony, and still don't?

Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Taylor on April 16, 2018, 11:15:26 AM
So the fem nazis have succeeded in making sure the two boys dont play in Ireland again. The should be happy with their work

Who is the next target for them?


No. It was their own actions that got them the door. They've accepted that. I suggest you and the other saddos who can't accept this do likewise.

There was no other decision that could have been made.

No need to resort to personal abuse MS.  :-\

How has Gilroy got off with a sanction if the Whats App messages were the crux of the problem?

I'm not sure if you get the irony of complaining about the term "saddos" while using the term "Nazis".

Did I make it personal to MS? Thought not. Move along Syf
So you didn't get the irony, and still don't?

 ::)  ::)

Anyway, reports say a number of big clubs are looking them and an announcement this week. Unless it is in France assume it is bs?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: DuffleKing on April 16, 2018, 12:51:53 PM
As has already been mentioned he wasn't charged with rape. He didn't leave a girl bleeding and distressed. And I believe he has been sanctioned in some way, just not sacked.

I shouldn't have said saddos - I apologise.

These men have been presumed innocent of accusations of sexual assault and rape from the moment and unanimously found not guilty by a jury of their peers of the same charges. They are and cannot be disciplined for any of those charges legally. If you don't understand that you disqualify yourself from being take seriously in these debates.

These two men have been sacked because their employers have an ethical issue with how they conduct their private lives - pure and simple. That is a very dangerous precedent as they now have to follow it up. It's a very good job that the IRFU don't apply these standards retrospectively or, for example, one of the world's best half backs would be out on his ear also.

Where else is this moral code to be applied? How about employees who take performance enhancing drugs? What about players who take recreational drugs or use legal narcotics in doses that induce well being effects? What about Ulster players who are members of the Orange Order? Drink driving offences? Slapping their children?

Pandora's box is opened and you can be sure that every personal indiscretion of IRFU employees going forward will be throw on the altar for moral judgement.


You do understand there's a difference between when someone maintains they gave consent and another person maintains they did not give consent - do you?

As we're aware of, the bar for a criminal conviction is very high as it should be. Not being convicted doesn't mean their behaviour was fine. They knew this girl was upset at the very least. They brought this on themselves with their actions. Any sympathy for them is grossly misplaced.

Legally, charges that they have been found not guilty of cannot be used as part of their dismissal - surely you grasp that? The trial cannot be used as part of the IRFU's reasoning.

This is very clear - irrespective of how much smoke and dust that is kicked up around it - these two players have been sacked because of how they conduct themselves in their personal lives irrespective of those actions being perfectly legal.
That is simply not true.  I don't know why this line continues to be pedalled out.


Exactly. Completely untrue. I wouldn't mind but it's not even that far back on this thread where it has been stated that in other professions people are let go if they get arrested.


Just because you repeat something that doesn't make it true

https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2018/0414/954460-stuart-olding-paddy-jackson/

In a statement, the IRFU and Ulster Rugby said: "In arriving at this decision, the IRFU and Ulster Rugby said they acknowledged their responsibility and commitment to the core values of the game - respect, inclusivity and integrity."

There is no mention of the court case. The IRFU could have interviewed witnesses, examined testimony, etc. but they didn't - they made a decision on these contracts based on a commitment to the core values of the game as they see them - which they are perfectly entitled to do.

The problem they have now is that every employee has to be held stringently to the the same core values.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Owen Brannigan on April 16, 2018, 07:18:26 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-northern-ireland-43787880/jackson-and-olding-irish-rugby-return-not-envisaged (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-northern-ireland-43787880/jackson-and-olding-irish-rugby-return-not-envisaged)
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 16, 2018, 08:11:10 PM

https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2018/0416/954927-clermont-rule-out-move-for-paddy-jackson/

Meanwhile, French champions Clermont Auvergne have ruled out recruiting Jackson, saying speculation they wanted to sign the former Ulster and Ireland out-half was "false information".

The reigning Top 14 champions are one of a number of clubs linked with Jackson since the cancellation of his Ulster and IRFU contract over the weekend.

"The Irish out-half will not come," head coach Franck Azéma told the club's website.

"There is no contact between Paddy Jackson and the club and no desire on our part to engage his services.

"I trust our workforce in this position where we do not lack resources with Camille Lopez, Patricio Fernandez, Ice Toeava and Dorian Lavernhe...

"With the constraints imposed by the salary cap, it is not possible to strengthen the position of out-half, where the internal solutions are numerous. "

On Sunday, English side Exeter denied reports linking them with a move for Olding.

Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: michaelg on April 16, 2018, 08:20:29 PM
Quote from Shane Logan below:

"We have done a lot of good work with players in terms of role modelling and we have got to keep building in that, reviewing on that to reduce the chances of players making bad decisions in future," he said.

They have clearly not done enough.  Given that both players were brought through the Academy from a formative age, I think it's interesting how Ulster Rugby are not prepared to take any responsibility for the development of the charactor of players such as Jackson and Olding. If they had, perhaps they may be more open to the old-fashioned idea of giving someone a second chance. 

Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Owen Brannigan on April 16, 2018, 09:11:39 PM
Quote from Shane Logan below:

"We have done a lot of good work with players in terms of role modelling and we have got to keep building in that, reviewing on that to reduce the chances of players making bad decisions in future," he said.

They have clearly not done enough.  Given that both players were brought through the Academy from a formative age, I think it's interesting how Ulster Rugby are not prepared to take any responsibility for the development of the charactor of players such as Jackson and Olding. If they had, perhaps they may be more open to the old-fashioned idea of giving someone a second chance.

The problem lies with the issue of having an 'Academy' in that it is based on selecting the elite, taking them apart from their peers and giving them the belief that they are special.  A recipe for disaster.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: sid waddell on April 16, 2018, 10:07:46 PM
Paddy Jackson for Clermont according to the Sunday Times.

Olding to Exeter.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-5616367/Paddy-Jackson-struggles-new-club-despite-cut-price-deal.html#comments-5616367

The 25-cap No 10 has also been touted around France, but several English clubs have already turned down his services.

‘Even though he was found not guilty, it would take a brave club to sign him,’ one director of rugby told the Mail on Sunday.

‘He’s been offered everywhere but a family club wouldn’t want to be associated with those messages

Clermont must not be a family club

I guess it turns out they are...
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: moysider on April 16, 2018, 11:20:32 PM
Quote from Shane Logan below:

"We have done a lot of good work with players in terms of role modelling and we have got to keep building in that, reviewing on that to reduce the chances of players making bad decisions in future," he said.

They have clearly not done enough.  Given that both players were brought through the Academy from a formative age, I think it's interesting how Ulster Rugby are not prepared to take any responsibility for the development of the charactor of players such as Jackson and Olding. If they had, perhaps they may be more open to the old-fashioned idea of giving someone a second chance.

The problem lies with the issue of having an 'Academy' in that it is based on selecting the elite, taking them apart from their peers and giving them the belief that they are special.  A recipe for disaster.

I dunno. I think it is unfair to blame an 'Academy' for wayward behaviour of young adults in their private lives. At the end of the day the responsibility is with the individual. Should the families of those lads - that supported them to the hilt during the trial - be blamed. I don't think so either.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Main Street on April 17, 2018, 12:19:14 AM
As has already been mentioned he wasn't charged with rape. He didn't leave a girl bleeding and distressed. And I believe he has been sanctioned in some way, just not sacked.

I shouldn't have said saddos - I apologise.

These men have been presumed innocent of accusations of sexual assault and rape from the moment and unanimously found not guilty by a jury of their peers of the same charges. They are and cannot be disciplined for any of those charges legally. If you don't understand that you disqualify yourself from being take seriously in these debates.

These two men have been sacked because their employers have an ethical issue with how they conduct their private lives - pure and simple. That is a very dangerous precedent as they now have to follow it up. It's a very good job that the IRFU don't apply these standards retrospectively or, for example, one of the world's best half backs would be out on his ear also.

Where else is this moral code to be applied? How about employees who take performance enhancing drugs? What about players who take recreational drugs or use legal narcotics in doses that induce well being effects? What about Ulster players who are members of the Orange Order? Drink driving offences? Slapping their children?

Pandora's box is opened and you can be sure that every personal indiscretion of IRFU employees going forward will be throw on the altar for moral judgement.


You do understand there's a difference between when someone maintains they gave consent and another person maintains they did not give consent - do you?

As we're aware of, the bar for a criminal conviction is very high as it should be. Not being convicted doesn't mean their behaviour was fine. They knew this girl was upset at the very least. They brought this on themselves with their actions. Any sympathy for them is grossly misplaced.

Legally, charges that they have been found not guilty of cannot be used as part of their dismissal - surely you grasp that? The trial cannot be used as part of the IRFU's reasoning.

This is very clear - irrespective of how much smoke and dust that is kicked up around it - these two players have been sacked because of how they conduct themselves in their personal lives irrespective of those actions being perfectly legal.
That is simply not true.  I don't know why this line continues to be pedalled out.


Exactly. Completely untrue. I wouldn't mind but it's not even that far back on this thread where it has been stated that in other professions people are let go if they get arrested.


Just because you repeat something that doesn't make it true

https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2018/0414/954460-stuart-olding-paddy-jackson/

In a statement, the IRFU and Ulster Rugby said: "In arriving at this decision, the IRFU and Ulster Rugby said they acknowledged their responsibility and commitment to the core values of the game - respect, inclusivity and integrity."

There is no mention of the court case. The IRFU could have interviewed witnesses, examined testimony, etc. but they didn't - they made a decision on these contracts based on a commitment to the core values of the game as they see them - which they are perfectly entitled to do.

The problem they have now is that every employee has to be held stringently to the the same core values.
I fully expect the rugby legends that have a contract with the IRFU, are required to hold to the core values.  Why do you think they have to be "stringently" holding to the core values? Where do pull this "stringent" word from?  It would appear to me that those 2 rugby lads deviated so far from the core values that their admitted behavior was taken to task and adjudicated upon. Stringent was not an issue.
Is it not obvious that not being deemed to be falling foul of the law does not necessarily whitewash one's actions. The law does not arbitrate what is morality, it never has, nor does the criteria for establishing guilt in a court arbitrate how any association can legally set up their own constitution and ethical standards.
Now homosexuality is legal, was it immoral before the law was changed?
.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: michaelg on April 17, 2018, 07:16:13 AM
Quote from Shane Logan below:

"We have done a lot of good work with players in terms of role modelling and we have got to keep building in that, reviewing on that to reduce the chances of players making bad decisions in future," he said.

They have clearly not done enough.  Given that both players were brought through the Academy from a formative age, I think it's interesting how Ulster Rugby are not prepared to take any responsibility for the development of the charactor of players such as Jackson and Olding. If they had, perhaps they may be more open to the old-fashioned idea of giving someone a second chance.

The problem lies with the issue of having an 'Academy' in that it is based on selecting the elite, taking them apart from their peers and giving them the belief that they are special.  A recipe for disaster.

I dunno. I think it is unfair to blame an 'Academy' for wayward behaviour of young adults in their private lives. At the end of the day the responsibility is with the individual. Should the families of those lads - that supported them to the hilt during the trial - be blamed. I don't think so either.
Overall, I would tend to agree with you, but working for the IRFU/ Ulster Rugby is not the same as working for Tesco.  Given the higher expectations regarding a "moral code", the Rugby authorities need to work harder to ensure that players area aware of, and adhere to these higher standards demanded of them.  Particulary when they enter their system at such a young age.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 17, 2018, 08:17:01 AM
Quote from Shane Logan below:

"We have done a lot of good work with players in terms of role modelling and we have got to keep building in that, reviewing on that to reduce the chances of players making bad decisions in future," he said.

They have clearly not done enough.  Given that both players were brought through the Academy from a formative age, I think it's interesting how Ulster Rugby are not prepared to take any responsibility for the development of the charactor of players such as Jackson and Olding. If they had, perhaps they may be more open to the old-fashioned idea of giving someone a second chance.

The problem lies with the issue of having an 'Academy' in that it is based on selecting the elite, taking them apart from their peers and giving them the belief that they are special.  A recipe for disaster.

I dunno. I think it is unfair to blame an 'Academy' for wayward behaviour of young adults in their private lives. At the end of the day the responsibility is with the individual. Should the families of those lads - that supported them to the hilt during the trial - be blamed. I don't think so either.
Overall, I would tend to agree with you, but working for the IRFU/ Ulster Rugby is not the same as working for Tesco.  Given the higher expectations regarding a "moral code", the Rugby authorities need to work harder to ensure that players area aware of, and adhere to these higher standards demanded of them.  Particulary when they enter their system at such a young age.
This was also a learning experience for the IRFU which is still in many ways amateur.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 17, 2018, 10:25:06 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/paddy-jackson-will-never-play-for-ireland-again-says-ulster-rugby-head-1.3463699
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Orchard park on April 17, 2018, 10:33:15 AM
seafoid, the argument has long been that soccer and rugby are professional sports run by complete amateurs, while GAA is the reverse
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 17, 2018, 10:34:46 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/gerry-thornley-saga-of-jackson-and-olding-a-salutary-warning-1.3462244

"Addressing text messages sent by Olding to friends after the events of the night in question, boasting about “spit-roasting”, his counsel, Frank O’Donoghue QC said they were nothing but “a titillating sideshow and they have no evidential value in relation to my client in this case”. He said Mr Olding was simply “bragging in the privacy of his own phone”.

They may have been a titillating sideshow in relation to the criminal case, and they may have been exchanged in the privacy of Olding’s and others’ own phones, but once they were made public it was clear their careers in Irish rugby were over."
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 17, 2018, 10:36:21 AM
seafoid, the argument has long been that soccer and rugby are professional sports run by complete amateurs, while GAA is the reverse
Orchard Park,

The GAA can be quite sloppy when public opinion has moved beyond official procedure too.
I think institutional competence is a national weakness. 
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: haranguerer on April 17, 2018, 10:45:59 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/paddy-jackson-will-never-play-for-ireland-again-says-ulster-rugby-head-1.3463699

He didn't say that at all. There really does need to be tighter controls on the media, they just say any old shite in headlines regardless of the article
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 17, 2018, 10:13:16 PM
https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ulster-rugby/tony-ward-jackson-and-olding-may-have-been-stunned-by-the-public-backlash-but-i-have-little-sympathy-for-them-36814348.html
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Minder on April 17, 2018, 10:50:20 PM
Not sure there is anything more to say here
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Tony Baloney on April 17, 2018, 10:59:27 PM
Not sure there is anything more to say here
Let's see how many more links seafoid can post before it gets shutdown.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: barelegs on April 17, 2018, 11:06:50 PM
There are a couple of things have been eating away at me for a few days.

The first one is that if this trial had involved two Leinster or Munster players and we had the same trial outcome in Dublin or Limerick, with the case heard in camera, the public would be none the wiser and you can be sure they would have resumed their careers with barely a word said. This case has certainly made me wonder about sports stars unexplained absences or injuries that last longer than they seemingly should!

The other thing that was eating at me was the incident involving two very high profile Munster players a couple of years ago that saw a video emerge before the story (and video) was buried and the incident swept under the carpet. The same players are lauded now and their morals haven't been discussed or called into question. There was no hint that their activities on the night in question were anything other than consensual I should add.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: moysider on April 18, 2018, 01:30:14 AM
There are a couple of things have been eating away at me for a few days.

The first one is that if this trial had involved two Leinster or Munster players and we had the same trial outcome in Dublin or Limerick, with the case heard in camera, the public would be none the wiser and you can be sure they would have resumed their careers with barely a word said. This case has certainly made me wonder about sports stars unexplained absences or injuries that last longer than they seemingly should!

The other thing that was eating at me was the incident involving two very high profile Munster players a couple of years ago that saw a video emerge before the story (and video) was buried and the incident swept under the carpet. The same players are lauded now and their morals haven't been discussed or called into question. There was no hint that their activities on the night in question were anything other than consensual I should add.

That is a huge difference though. There was more than a hint of non- consensual in the Ulster case. A girl reported she had been raped and was prepared to go through a terrible trial ordeal, when it would have been easier to walk away.
That is now being forgotten of course and the emphasis is back on the legends and their future careers.
 Rugby is a small enough world. I doubt they will have much luck getting a gig anywhere else tbh. French clubs have standards too and Macron is backing reviews about age of consent and consent in general. The Frenchies might be laissez-faire about sex/adultery/ age, but they are not into non-consensual sex - or any hint of it. They are classier than that.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Owen Brannigan on April 18, 2018, 05:48:37 AM
For me it has raised the issue of so called role models especially from sports. Should sports people be expected to be role models? Some are worthy of being such but the vast majority probably do not deserve or need the burden.

Celebrity culture is the curse of our times, bestowing status on those who do not model lifestyles and behaviour that are to be truly valued.

Here in NI we have an airport and soon to be themed hotel named after a domestic abusing, alcoholic. What would be the outcry if a name change was to be suggested?


Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: imtommygunn on April 18, 2018, 07:45:41 AM
Not sure there is anything more to say here
Let's see how many more links seafoid can post before it gets shutdown.

I hope you read all of those ;D
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: haranguerer on April 18, 2018, 09:02:04 AM
There are a couple of things have been eating away at me for a few days.

The first one is that if this trial had involved two Leinster or Munster players and we had the same trial outcome in Dublin or Limerick, with the case heard in camera, the public would be none the wiser and you can be sure they would have resumed their careers with barely a word said. This case has certainly made me wonder about sports stars unexplained absences or injuries that last longer than they seemingly should!

The other thing that was eating at me was the incident involving two very high profile Munster players a couple of years ago that saw a video emerge before the story (and video) was buried and the incident swept under the carpet. The same players are lauded now and their morals haven't been discussed or called into question. There was no hint that their activities on the night in question were anything other than consensual I should add.

That is a huge difference though. There was more than a hint of non- consensual in the Ulster case. A girl reported she had been raped and was prepared to go through a terrible trial ordeal, when it would have been easier to walk away.
That is now being forgotten of course and the emphasis is back on the legends and their future careers.
 Rugby is a small enough world. I doubt they will have much luck getting a gig anywhere else tbh. French clubs have standards too and Macron is backing reviews about age of consent and consent in general. The Frenchies might be laissez-faire about sex/adultery/ age, but they are not into non-consensual sex - or any hint of it. They are classier than that.

I really wish people would stop coming out with this (highlighted) - it really doesn't reflect well on anyone who utters it. The implication is that we should believe each and every accusation, because someone went to the trouble of making it. Ludicrous.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Asal Mor on April 18, 2018, 09:12:21 AM
Agree with that haranguerer.
I also don't think Moysider, that the absence of contract offers has got anything to with anyone being classy. It's about the inevitable backlash that would result and the knowledge that it  would be corporate suicide. Use of the term "non-consensual" as though it was fact is Syferus style debating.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 18, 2018, 09:53:55 AM
Agree with that haranguerer.
I also don't think Moysider, that the absence of contract offers has got anything to with anyone being classy. . Use of the term "non-consensual" as though it was fact is Syferus style debating.

"It's about the inevitable backlash that would result and the knowledge that it  would be corporate suicide" is about not being classy
The brands of the 2 boys are tainted.
Never playing again for Ireland is a huge sanction for such players.
Nobody benefited from this .
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: haranguerer on April 18, 2018, 10:18:58 AM
I disagree, there's a few who got a lot of retweets and gained many more followers out of it - which is exactly what they wanted, so they benefited.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 18, 2018, 10:53:26 AM
I disagree, there's a few who got a lot of retweets and gained many more followers out of it - which is exactly what they wanted, so they benefited.
Nobody involved in the activity on the night benefited. The whole thing was toxic.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: haranguerer on April 18, 2018, 11:03:06 AM
Of course - I'm just drawing attention to the motivations of some others
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: magpie seanie on April 18, 2018, 11:36:04 AM
There are a couple of things have been eating away at me for a few days.

The first one is that if this trial had involved two Leinster or Munster players and we had the same trial outcome in Dublin or Limerick, with the case heard in camera, the public would be none the wiser and you can be sure they would have resumed their careers with barely a word said. This case has certainly made me wonder about sports stars unexplained absences or injuries that last longer than they seemingly should!

The other thing that was eating at me was the incident involving two very high profile Munster players a couple of years ago that saw a video emerge before the story (and video) was buried and the incident swept under the carpet. The same players are lauded now and their morals haven't been discussed or called into question. There was no hint that their activities on the night in question were anything other than consensual I should add.

That is a huge difference though. There was more than a hint of non- consensual in the Ulster case. A girl reported she had been raped and was prepared to go through a terrible trial ordeal, when it would have been easier to walk away.
That is now being forgotten of course and the emphasis is back on the legends and their future careers.
 Rugby is a small enough world. I doubt they will have much luck getting a gig anywhere else tbh. French clubs have standards too and Macron is backing reviews about age of consent and consent in general. The Frenchies might be laissez-faire about sex/adultery/ age, but they are not into non-consensual sex - or any hint of it. They are classier than that.

I really wish people would stop coming out with this (highlighted) - it really doesn't reflect well on anyone who utters it. The implication is that we should believe each and every accusation, because someone went to the trouble of making it. Ludicrous.


No - that's not the implication. It's actually pretty clear - a clearly accepted consensual act is vastly different to one where one party maintains there was not consent.

Coupled with the boasting text messages when - let's be honest - they had to know that at the very least the girl was very upset leaving the house and in the taxi, shows the legend up pretty badly.

Any sympathy for these guys is misplaced even if you believe what happened in the room was 100% consensual.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: haranguerer on April 18, 2018, 11:40:24 AM
This isn't anything to do with sympathy for them, or what anyone believes happened in the room.

I can only assume from your response you didn't read the post properly? I'm referring to the bit I've highlighted. Otherwise your post makes no sense whatsoever, as it doesn't seem to follow from mine.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2018, 11:56:21 AM
Not sure there is anything more to say here
Let's see how many more links seafoid can post before it gets shutdown.

275 pages and counting
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: magpie seanie on April 18, 2018, 11:57:15 AM
Not sure there is anything more to say here
Let's see how many more links seafoid can post before it gets shutdown.

275 pages and counting


Would be interesting to see who had the most posts in those 275 pages.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2018, 01:51:31 PM
Not sure there is anything more to say here
Let's see how many more links seafoid can post before it gets shutdown.

275 pages and counting


Would be interesting to see who had the most posts in those 275 pages.

Syf/Sid.... seeing as they are the same  ;)
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 18, 2018, 03:55:21 PM
The case will change/ has changed

How rape trials are conducted in the South
How the IRFU  train younger players
The earning capacity of the 2 legends


A very significant legal case therefore
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on April 18, 2018, 06:46:12 PM
The case will change/ has changed

How rape trials are conducted in the South
How the IRFU  train younger players
The earning capacity of the 2 legends


A very significant legal case therefore

More than anything it should make men question their own behaviours. Not much of that happening in this thread, though.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2018, 06:50:29 PM
The case will change/ has changed

How rape trials are conducted in the South
How the IRFU  train younger players
The earning capacity of the 2 legends


A very significant legal case therefore

More than anything it should make men question their own behaviours. Not much of that happening in this thread, though.

Jesus! you’re one boring Cnut!
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Orchard park on April 18, 2018, 06:52:33 PM
This is  an instance where Syferus is arguably very correct
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on April 18, 2018, 06:52:51 PM
The case will change/ has changed

How rape trials are conducted in the South
How the IRFU  train younger players
The earning capacity of the 2 legends


A very significant legal case therefore

More than anything it should make men question their own behaviours. Not much of that happening in this thread, though.

Jesus! you’re one boring Cnut!

Why are you defensive?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2018, 09:27:12 PM
The case will change/ has changed

How rape trials are conducted in the South
How the IRFU  train younger players
The earning capacity of the 2 legends


A very significant legal case therefore

More than anything it should make men question their own behaviours. Not much of that happening in this thread, though.

Jesus! you’re one boring Cnut!

Why are you defensive?

Men and women should question their own behaviour ffs! Pure fantasy that men run around like cavemen, plenty of stupid women out there also, behaving in a manner that wouldn’t be the norm!

As for me being defensive, I’m not but I’m bored of the movements out that think they are making a difference, they aren’t.... if someone is a rapist then they need to go to jail via the court system, it’s the only one available and yeah it could be better..

I don’t know of anyone who thought they definitely raped that girl, and if the jury had have found them guilty, then job done, no one I spoke to about this case would have given it a second thought, nor started up a #ibelievethem campaign either.

So put it to bed and start a thread about the ex Armagh player who wanted to rape a taxi driver and rob him on the way home from a night out in Dundalk!
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: sid waddell on April 18, 2018, 09:49:19 PM
The case will change/ has changed

How rape trials are conducted in the South
How the IRFU  train younger players
The earning capacity of the 2 legends


A very significant legal case therefore
I thought Neil Francis's article at the weekend was head in the sand stuff as regards it "changing behaviour". He argues that no young rugby player will need to be told how not to behave after this trial.

He clearly missed the photo taken inside a Ravenhill dressing room less than a week after the verdict.



Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on April 18, 2018, 09:56:43 PM
The case will change/ has changed

How rape trials are conducted in the South
How the IRFU  train younger players
The earning capacity of the 2 legends


A very significant legal case therefore

More than anything it should make men question their own behaviours. Not much of that happening in this thread, though.

Jesus! you’re one boring Cnut!

Why are you defensive?

Men and women should question their own behaviour ffs! Pure fantasy that men run around like cavemen, plenty of stupid women out there also, behaving in a manner that wouldn’t be the norm!

As for me being defensive, I’m not but I’m bored of the movements out that think they are making a difference, they aren’t.... if someone is a rapist then they need to go to jail via the court system, it’s the only one available and yeah it could be better..

I don’t know of anyone who thought they definitely raped that girl, and if the jury had have found them guilty, then job done, no one I spoke to about this case would have given it a second thought, nor started up a #ibelievethem campaign either.

So put it to bed and start a thread about the ex Armagh player who wanted to rape a taxi driver and rob him on the way home from a night out in Dundalk!

I would like you to explain how the woman did anything wrong, because you’re way out on an island of your own to be suggesting she or any other woman should be looking at their behaviour after an incident like this.

You’ve said some absolutely shocking things in this thread.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2018, 09:59:53 PM
The case will change/ has changed

How rape trials are conducted in the South
How the IRFU  train younger players
The earning capacity of the 2 legends


A very significant legal case therefore

More than anything it should make men question their own behaviours. Not much of that happening in this thread, though.

Jesus! you’re one boring Cnut!

Why are you defensive?

Men and women should question their own behaviour ffs! Pure fantasy that men run around like cavemen, plenty of stupid women out there also, behaving in a manner that wouldn’t be the norm!

As for me being defensive, I’m not but I’m bored of the movements out that think they are making a difference, they aren’t.... if someone is a rapist then they need to go to jail via the court system, it’s the only one available and yeah it could be better..

I don’t know of anyone who thought they definitely raped that girl, and if the jury had have found them guilty, then job done, no one I spoke to about this case would have given it a second thought, nor started up a #ibelievethem campaign either.

So put it to bed and start a thread about the ex Armagh player who wanted to rape a taxi driver and rob him on the way home from a night out in Dundalk!

I would like you to explain how the woman did anything wrong, because you’re way out on an island of your own to be suggesting she or any other woman should be looking at their behaviour after an incident like this.

You’ve said some absolutely shocking things in this thread.

Read the post thicko! I didnt say this girl, I said women

You’re that far up your own arse that you don’t see it!!
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: sid waddell on April 18, 2018, 11:20:26 PM
The mind can only boggle at someone whose reaction to this trial is to deny that there is a problem with men's behaviour yet simultaneously claim there is a problem with women's behaviour.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2018, 11:48:26 PM
The mind can only boggle at someone whose reaction to this trial is to deny that there is a problem with men's behaviour yet simultaneously claim there is a problem with women's behaviour.

Give it up Syf/Sid, pick one username and go with it.

Again you have jumped on this rape culture thing, that actually doesn’t exist, in your strange mind it does, but it doesn’t. Now let it go.

 I’m sure there is a nice girl out there for you, but you’ll have bored them to death after your first conversation!
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Farrandeelin on April 18, 2018, 11:50:36 PM
Syf and sid aren't one and same.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2018, 07:24:28 AM
Regime change in Syria–good for Israel; good for the U.S.

Hillary Clinton Email Archive

https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/emailid/18328
—————————————————————————–

UNCLASSIFIED U.S. Department of State Case No. F-2014-20439 Doc No. C05794498 Date: 11/30/2015 RELEASE IN FULL

The best way to help Israel deal with Iran’s growing nuclear capability is to help the people of Syria overthrow the regime of Bashar Assad.

Negotiations to limit Iran’s nuclear program will not solve Israel’s security dilemma. Nor will they stop Iran from improving the crucial part of any nuclear weapons program — the capability to enrich uranium. At best, the talks between the world’s major powers and Iran that began in Istanbul this April and will continue in Baghdad in May will enable Israel to postpone by a few months a decision whether to launch an attack on Iran that could provoke a major Mideast war. Iran’s nuclear program and Syria’s civil war may seem unconnected, but they are. For Israeli leaders, the real threat from a nuclear-armed Iran is not the prospect of an insane Iranian leader launching an unprovoked Iranian nuclear attack on Israel that would lead to the annihilation of both countries.

What Israeli military leaders really worry about — but cannot talk about — is losing their nuclear monopoly. An Iranian nuclear weapons capability would not only end that nuclear monopoly but could also prompt other adversaries, like Saudi Arabia and Egypt, to go nuclear as well. The result would be a precarious nuclear balance in which Israel could not respond to provocations with conventional military strikes on Syria and Lebanon, as it can today. If Iran were to reach the threshold of a nuclear weapons state, Tehran would find it much easier to call on its allies in Syria and Hezbollah to strike Israel, knowing that its nuclear weapons would serve as a deterrent to Israel responding against Iran itself.

Back to Syria. It is the strategic relationship between Iran and the regime of Bashar Assad in Syria that makes it possible for Iran to undermine Israel’s security — not through a direct attack, which in the thirty years of hostility between Iran and Israel has never occurred, but through its proxies in Lebanon, like Hezbollah, that are sustained, armed and trained by Iran via Syria.

The end of the Assad regime would end this dangerous alliance. Israel’s leadership understands well why defeating Assad is now in its interests. Speaking on CNN’s Amanpour show last week, Defense Minister Ehud Barak argued that “the toppling down of Assad will be a major blow to the radical axis, major blow to Iran…. It’s the only kind of outpost of the Iranian influence in the Arab world…and it will weaken dramatically both Hezbollah in Lebanon and Hamas and Islamic Jihad in Gaza.”

Bringing down Assad would not only be a massive boon to Israel’s security, it would also ease Israel’s understandable fear of losing its nuclear monopoly. Then, Israel and the United States might be able to develop a common view of when the Iranian program is so dangerous that military action could be warranted.

Right now, it is the combination of Iran’s strategic alliance with Syria and the steady progress in Iran’s nuclear enrichment program that has led Israeli leaders to contemplate a surprise attack — if necessary over the objections of Washington. With Assad gone, and Iran no longer able to threaten Israel through its, proxies, it is possible that the United States and Israel can agree on red lines for when Iran’s program has crossed an unacceptable threshold. In short, the White House can ease the tension that has developed with Israel over Iran by doing the right thing in Syria.

The rebellion in Syria has now lasted more than a year. The opposition is not going away, nor is the regime going to accept a diplomatic solution from the outside. With his life and his family at risk, only the threat or use of force will change the Syrian dictator Bashar Assad’s mind.

 ::)
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on April 22, 2018, 03:45:51 PM

https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2018/0422/956342-irfu-want-either-carbery-or-byrne-to-move-to-ulster/

Joe Schmidt and the IRFU are anxious that either one of Leinster's back-up out-halves - Joey Carbery and Ross Byrne -
move to Ulster to replace the exiled Paddy Jackson. 

According to a report in The Sunday Times this morning, IRFU performance director David Nucifora visited the Leinster training centre to tell Leo Cullen that he needed to make a choice between keeping Byrne or Carbery.

Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AQMP on May 02, 2018, 03:32:55 PM
With some speculation that Jackson and Olding will be going to Sale, they have settled (i.e lost) their case against the BBC over coverage of their arrest and will pay £20,000 of the BBC's legal fees.

Jackson has also lost his case against BBC Sport reporter Orla Bannon.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-43976857
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on May 02, 2018, 03:42:33 PM
He was an utter jackass to try to sue in the first place.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Aaron Boone on May 03, 2018, 07:49:48 AM
They must be wondering will they ever play professional rugby again. Sale getting cold feet after social media backlash yesterday, even the local Manchester MP was objecting.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 03, 2018, 08:17:35 AM
Social justice warriors! They’ll fight any cause.. Alfie’s army was another sad case of using social media. Be another cause worth fighting for soon enough
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on May 03, 2018, 09:54:54 AM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2018/05/02/sale-sharks-deny-interest-signing-paddy-jackson-stuart-olding/
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: trailer on May 03, 2018, 09:56:57 AM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2018/05/02/sale-sharks-deny-interest-signing-paddy-jackson-stuart-olding/

It would appear Olding and Jackson are toxic and no team wants to touch them let alone sign them.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: haranguerer on May 03, 2018, 10:04:18 AM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2018/05/02/sale-sharks-deny-interest-signing-paddy-jackson-stuart-olding/

It would appear Olding and Jackson are toxic and no team wants to touch them let alone sign them.

It would appear that any team that want to touch them are getting harassed and vilified. I don't know what the end game of these campaign groups is. I doubt they know themselves, just delighted with the temporary power and illusion of influence
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 03, 2018, 10:25:29 AM
I could start a rumour tomorrow that they are set to sign for some Australian team and they’d believe it and start a social justice campaign!

Pure speculation about these players playing for a n other! Doesn’t stop the keyboard warriors though
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Asal Mor on May 03, 2018, 10:34:17 AM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2018/05/02/sale-sharks-deny-interest-signing-paddy-jackson-stuart-olding/

It would appear Olding and Jackson are toxic and no team wants to touch them let alone sign them.

It would appear that any team that want to touch them are getting harassed and vilified. I don't know what the end game of these campaign groups is. I doubt they know themselves, just delighted with the temporary power and illusion of influence
As someone pointed out, Bill Clinton, who has had numerous accusations of sexual assault, sexual harassment and one of rape made against him, received the Freedom of the City of Belfast a few days before Olding and Jackson got the sack from Ulster.

It's playing out predictably. Any thoughts of improving the system through protest will be long forgotten(if they ever existed)  by these eejits. The hounding of 2 men who've already lost nearly everything will continue.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 03, 2018, 10:37:12 AM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2018/05/02/sale-sharks-deny-interest-signing-paddy-jackson-stuart-olding/

It would appear Olding and Jackson are toxic and no team wants to touch them let alone sign them.

It would appear that any team that want to touch them are getting harassed and vilified. I don't know what the end game of these campaign groups is. I doubt they know themselves, just delighted with the temporary power and illusion of influence
As someone pointed out, Bill Clinton, who has had numerous accusations of sexual assault, sexual harassment and one of rape made against him, received the Freedom of the City of Belfast a few days before Olding and Jackson got the sack from Ulster.

It's playing out predictably. Any thoughts of improving the system through protest will be long forgotten(if they ever existed)  by these eejits. The hounding of 2 men who've already lost nearly everything will continue.

Fawning over the Clintons is ok it seems
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on May 03, 2018, 11:08:05 AM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2018/05/02/sale-sharks-deny-interest-signing-paddy-jackson-stuart-olding/

It would appear Olding and Jackson are toxic and no team wants to touch them let alone sign them.
They would need to go somewhere where the language isn't English.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AQMP on May 03, 2018, 11:48:50 AM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2018/05/02/sale-sharks-deny-interest-signing-paddy-jackson-stuart-olding/

It would appear Olding and Jackson are toxic and no team wants to touch them let alone sign them.
They would need to go somewhere where the language isn't English.

Ballymena??
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AQMP on May 03, 2018, 04:58:31 PM
Sale Sharks sponsors scupper Jackson/Olding deal?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/43994265

One of Sale Sharks' main sponsors raised concerns with the club about the reported interest in signing Paddy Jackson and Stuart Olding.

Investment firm AJ Bell, the naming rights partner for Sale's stadium, said it had told director of rugby Steve Diamond of its concerns.  Sale have dismissed reports they were in advanced negotiations with the former Ireland and Ulster players.  The pair were cleared of rape after a nine-week trial.
But there was controversy over social media and WhatsApp messages they had exchanged and their contracts were later revoked by Ulster and the Irish Rugby Football Union

The BBC has learned that AJ Bell co-founder Andy Bell spoke directly with Diamond to discuss the company's concerns.  In a statement, Mr Bell said: "Sale Sharks are very aware of the strong values engrained (sic) within our business, many of which are shared by the club and their supporters.

"We have total faith in Steve Diamond and the owners to reflect these values whilst they are stewards of the club."
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on May 03, 2018, 05:00:51 PM
Happy that these English clubs are being held to account. If they’re toxic in Ireland why wouldn’t they be in the same country they were tried?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on May 03, 2018, 05:06:08 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2018/05/02/sale-sharks-deny-interest-signing-paddy-jackson-stuart-olding/

It would appear Olding and Jackson are toxic and no team wants to touch them let alone sign them.

It would appear that any team that want to touch them are getting harassed and vilified. I don't know what the end game of these campaign groups is. I doubt they know themselves, just delighted with the temporary power and illusion of influence
As someone pointed out, Bill Clinton, who has had numerous accusations of sexual assault, sexual harassment and one of rape made against him, received the Freedom of the City of Belfast a few days before Olding and Jackson got the sack from Ulster.

It's playing out predictably. Any thoughts of improving the system through protest will be long forgotten(if they ever existed)  by these eejits. The hounding of 2 men who've already lost nearly everything will continue.

As I recall from the Ched Evans thread you have a personal angle in this.

I remember you recounting a tale from your own life where a women left your bedroom in tears only for you to be convinced by all your mates telling you she was a loon that you did nothing wrong. So it doesn’t seem much of a stretch to say your own behaviour and opinions in this thread are in part informed by your wish to square away your own actions as morally OK. It’s part of the reason I have little time for your grandstanding on this topic.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on May 03, 2018, 05:53:49 PM
Just going back to the day of the verdict I don't think anybody would have expected what is transpiring now. The boys won the case but they seem to have lost the war. 
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 03, 2018, 05:56:24 PM
Happy that these English clubs are being held to account. If they’re toxic in Ireland why wouldn’t they be in the same country they were tried?
You're toxic. They sent and received a few dodgy messages. Big deal, they should be allowed to apologise and move on the way adults do in the real world.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on May 03, 2018, 06:07:12 PM
Happy that these English clubs are being held to account. If they’re toxic in Ireland why wouldn’t they be in the same country they were tried?
You're toxic. They sent and received a few dodgy messages. Big deal, they should be allowed to apologise and move on the way adults do in the real world.

Most people believe they gang-raped a girl. And even if you don’t, if you think their behaviour was morally good or something any sponsor or family-orientated club would want to associate itself with you are, in a word, wrong.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Gmac on May 03, 2018, 06:22:39 PM
They should be sent to hell or to Connacht
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on May 03, 2018, 07:19:18 PM
You would wonder if there isn't some deal that could be struck with the complainant to get the boys out of the untouchable zone.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on May 03, 2018, 07:33:08 PM
You would wonder if there isn't some deal that could be struck with the complainant to get the boys out of the untouchable zone.

What like?  For her to make a statement that they didn’t actually rape her and that she in fact perjured herself? Or write a reference to the clubs on the back of them paying her £100k saying that even though she said under oath they are rapists that actually they’re good guys? Seriously what do you expect. Unfortunately in the court of public opinion they are deemed untouchable. They will carry the stigma of ‘no smoke without fire’ for the rest of their lives. They’d be as well to learn the rules of American Football and head to the stars and play that out there!!!
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: general_lee on May 03, 2018, 07:52:31 PM
At this point, I find it incredibly difficult to grasp how people can be 100% certain the men are guiltily. I likewise can’t understand how anyone can be 100% sure they’re innocent. The only person(s) who can be 100% certain are the complainant and the accused, and even they weren’t sure of their stories. The next best placed people are the jury, and I have enough confidence that going on the evidence presented and under the current legislation they made the correct decision. Being misogynistic over whatsapp is not a crime and does not indicate guilt.

While I agree the law does not sit favourably with women who may be the victims of rape, why the outcry now? Why not before?  Just because the accused were famous? Are they now not permitted to return to their profession because they and their mates were sleazy in a whatsapp group?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Minder on May 03, 2018, 07:59:02 PM
Happy that these English clubs are being held to account. If they’re toxic in Ireland why wouldn’t they be in the same country they were tried?
You're toxic. They sent and received a few dodgy messages. Big deal, they should be allowed to apologise and move on the way adults do in the real world.

Most people believe they gang-raped a girl. And even if you don’t, if you think their behaviour was morally good or something any sponsor or family-orientated club would want to associate itself with you are, in a word, wrong.

Eh?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on May 03, 2018, 08:22:22 PM
Happy that these English clubs are being held to account. If they’re toxic in Ireland why wouldn’t they be in the same country they were tried?
You're toxic. They sent and received a few dodgy messages. Big deal, they should be allowed to apologise and move on the way adults do in the real world.

Most people believe they gang-raped a girl. And even if you don’t, if you think their behaviour was morally good or something any sponsor or family-orientated club would want to associate itself with you are, in a word, wrong.

Eh?

If you repeat a lie often enough you soon start believeing your own BS!
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on May 03, 2018, 09:16:36 PM
You would wonder if there isn't some deal that could be struck with the complainant to get the boys out of the untouchable zone.

What like?  For her to make a statement that they didn’t actually rape her and that she in fact perjured herself? Or write a reference to the clubs on the back of them paying her £100k saying that even though she said under oath they are rapists that actually they’re good guys? Seriously what do you expect. Unfortunately in the court of public opinion they are deemed untouchable. They will carry the stigma of ‘no smoke without fire’ for the rest of their lives. They’d be as well to learn the rules of American Football and head to the stars and play that out there!!!
Something left field.  Like establishing a foundation to explain consent to all 17 year olds in NI.
Jsckson could lose £2 m if this situation persists indefinitely. He and Olding are trapped in a toxic discourse and they have to reframe it. Everyone has the potential to change and they deserve this to be recognised. But they have to make the first move.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on May 03, 2018, 09:25:13 PM
You would wonder if there isn't some deal that could be struck with the complainant to get the boys out of the untouchable zone.

What like?  For her to make a statement that they didn’t actually rape her and that she in fact perjured herself? Or write a reference to the clubs on the back of them paying her £100k saying that even though she said under oath they are rapists that actually they’re good guys? Seriously what do you expect. Unfortunately in the court of public opinion they are deemed untouchable. They will carry the stigma of ‘no smoke without fire’ for the rest of their lives. They’d be as well to learn the rules of American Football and head to the stars and play that out there!!!
Something left field.  Like establishing a foundation to explain consent to all 17 year olds in NI.
Jsckson could lose £2 m if this situation persists indefinitely. He and Olding are trapped in a toxic discourse and they have to reframe it. Everyone has the potential to change and they deserve this to be recognised. But they have to make the first move.

Honestly they are too far gone. If their own brethren and kin won’t have them about the shop how will others do so. Honestly they need to go abroad to France or Italy or bloody Canada if they have to just to reestablish themselves
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Rawhide on May 03, 2018, 10:00:46 PM
The lunacy of it all. You have Tony Blair who was responsible for murdering thousands of people on the basis of a lie, all for oil, now walking about now earning a fortune, treated like a king, then you have two ruby players guilty of boasting about their sexual exploits on a WhatsApp and they are untouchable. The world is truly rotten
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: longballin on May 03, 2018, 11:08:41 PM
The lunacy of it all. You have Tony Blair who was responsible for murdering thousands of people on the basis of a lie, all for oil, now walking about now earning a fortune, treated like a king, then you have two ruby players guilty of boasting about their sexual exploits on a WhatsApp and they are untouchable. The world is truly rotten

aye it is not a just world, they were out of order but paying such a heavy price. Then you have Mike Tyson a convicted rapist feted in America as for the President...  so many examples
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 04, 2018, 07:49:34 AM
You would wonder if there isn't some deal that could be struck with the complainant to get the boys out of the untouchable zone.

What like?  For her to make a statement that they didn’t actually rape her and that she in fact perjured herself? Or write a reference to the clubs on the back of them paying her £100k saying that even though she said under oath they are rapists that actually they’re good guys? Seriously what do you expect. Unfortunately in the court of public opinion they are deemed untouchable. They will carry the stigma of ‘no smoke without fire’ for the rest of their lives. They’d be as well to learn the rules of American Football and head to the stars and play that out there!!!
Something left field.  Like establishing a foundation to explain consent to all 17 year olds in NI.
Jsckson could lose £2 m if this situation persists indefinitely. He and Olding are trapped in a toxic discourse and they have to reframe it. Everyone has the potential to change and they deserve this to be recognised. But they have to make the first move.

Honestly they are too far gone. If their own brethren and kin won’t have them about the shop how will others do so. Honestly they need to go abroad to France or Italy or bloody Canada if they have to just to reestablish themselves

Bennetton or Zebra would gladly take the two of them but would that become an issue for the Pro14?

Any of the struggling French teams would take Jackson but there are plenty of journeymen like Olding in the professional game.

Daily Mail has ensured that only a brave English premiership club will take these boys but the Championship might be an option if the English authorities do not close off promotion to the Premiership.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Farrandeelin on May 04, 2018, 08:02:53 AM
Happy that these English clubs are being held to account. If they’re toxic in Ireland why wouldn’t they be in the same country they were tried?
You're toxic. They sent and received a few dodgy messages. Big deal, they should be allowed to apologise and move on the way adults do in the real world.

Most people believe they gang-raped a girl. And even if you don’t, if you think their behaviour was morally good or something any sponsor or family-orientated club would want to associate itself with you are, in a word, wrong.

Evidence of your first sentence please Syf.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: screenexile on May 04, 2018, 08:07:45 AM
Happy that these English clubs are being held to account. If they’re toxic in Ireland why wouldn’t they be in the same country they were tried?
You're toxic. They sent and received a few dodgy messages. Big deal, they should be allowed to apologise and move on the way adults do in the real world.

Most people believe they gang-raped a girl. And even if you don’t, if you think their behaviour was morally good or something any sponsor or family-orientated club would want to associate itself with you are, in a word, wrong.

Evidence of your first sentence please Syf.

#ibelieveher on Twitter.

Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Never beat the deeler on May 04, 2018, 08:25:34 AM
Happy that these English clubs are being held to account. If they’re toxic in Ireland why wouldn’t they be in the same country they were tried?
You're toxic. They sent and received a few dodgy messages. Big deal, they should be allowed to apologise and move on the way adults do in the real world.

Most people believe they gang-raped a girl. And even if you don’t, if you think their behaviour was morally good or something any sponsor or family-orientated club would want to associate itself with you are, in a word, wrong.

Evidence of your first sentence please Syf.

#ibelieveher on Twitter.

Aye, the 620 tweets
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: trailer on May 04, 2018, 12:22:58 PM
Being accused of rape or theft are two things you'll not shake to handy as Jackson and Olding are finding out.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: StGallsGAA on May 04, 2018, 11:56:46 PM
They were found not guilty of rape but there's no doubt 2 International Irish Rugby players in their 20's degraded a drunk teenager and ruined her name for their own perverse sexual pleasure. The WA group names and texts suggest they did this sort of thing on a regular basis. Shameful.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: trileacman on May 05, 2018, 12:10:16 AM
If we can hate Jackson and Olding for being dicks to women can we also unite in our hatred of Patrick Reed because he's a w**ker to his folks.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: StGallsGAA on May 05, 2018, 10:16:05 AM
If we can hate Jackson and Olding for being dicks to women can we also unite in our hatred of Patrick Reed because he's a w**ker to his folks.

I don't hate either of them and they may well be decent lads in other ways, but nor do I have any sympathy that their careers are stalling as a result.  They brought it on themselves.  It doesn't appear to have been a spur of the moment/ out of character thing fuelled by drink.  It seems from the texts that this type of behaviour took place fairly regularly and was perhaps even planned.  It was going to get exposed at some point given their profiles.

All probably a result of too much money, too much time on their hands and too much porn.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 05, 2018, 11:27:32 AM
If we can hate Jackson and Olding for being dicks to women can we also unite in our hatred of Patrick Reed because he's a w**ker to his folks.

I don't hate either of them and they may well be decent lads in other ways, but nor do I have any sympathy that their careers are stalling as a result.  They brought it on themselves.  It doesn't appear to have been a spur of the moment/ out of character thing fuelled by drink.  It seems from the texts that this type of behaviour took place fairly regularly and was perhaps even planned.  It was going to get exposed at some point given their profiles.

All probably a result of too much money, too much time on their hands and too much porn.

You’re making out that having sex on a regular bases and telling your mates is a crime! Wise up
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: StGallsGAA on May 05, 2018, 03:16:27 PM
If we can hate Jackson and Olding for being dicks to women can we also unite in our hatred of Patrick Reed because he's a w**ker to his folks.

I don't hate either of them and they may well be decent lads in other ways, but nor do I have any sympathy that their careers are stalling as a result.  They brought it on themselves.  It doesn't appear to have been a spur of the moment/ out of character thing fuelled by drink.  It seems from the texts that this type of behaviour took place fairly regularly and was perhaps even planned.  It was going to get exposed at some point given their profiles.

All probably a result of too much money, too much time on their hands and too much porn.

You’re making out that having sex on a regular bases and telling your mates is a crime! Wise up

I'm not but 2-3 grown men setting up a drunken teenager for group sex with them is morally reprehensible, whether it's legal or not.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: nrico2006 on May 05, 2018, 07:48:44 PM
If we can hate Jackson and Olding for being dicks to women can we also unite in our hatred of Patrick Reed because he's a w**ker to his folks.

I don't hate either of them and they may well be decent lads in other ways, but nor do I have any sympathy that their careers are stalling as a result.  They brought it on themselves.  It doesn't appear to have been a spur of the moment/ out of character thing fuelled by drink.  It seems from the texts that this type of behaviour took place fairly regularly and was perhaps even planned.  It was going to get exposed at some point given their profiles.

All probably a result of too much money, too much time on their hands and too much porn.

You’re making out that having sex on a regular bases and telling your mates is a crime! Wise up

I'm not but 2-3 grown men setting up a drunken teenager for group sex with them is morally reprehensible, whether it's legal or not.

They were all around the same age and they hardly set her up. She was a willing participant.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: StGallsGAA on May 05, 2018, 08:47:42 PM
If we can hate Jackson and Olding for being dicks to women can we also unite in our hatred of Patrick Reed because he's a w**ker to his folks.

I don't hate either of them and they may well be decent lads in other ways, but nor do I have any sympathy that their careers are stalling as a result.  They brought it on themselves.  It doesn't appear to have been a spur of the moment/ out of character thing fuelled by drink.  It seems from the texts that this type of behaviour took place fairly regularly and was perhaps even planned.  It was going to get exposed at some point given their profiles.

All probably a result of too much money, too much time on their hands and too much porn.

You’re making out that having sex on a regular bases and telling your mates is a crime! Wise up

I'm not but 2-3 grown men setting up a drunken teenager for group sex with them is morally reprehensible, whether it's legal or not.

They were all around the same age and they hardly set her up. She was a willing participant.
No they weren't around the same age and she was drunk. Where you come from is it fine to double and treble up on drunk teenagers then?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: nrico2006 on May 05, 2018, 08:59:35 PM
If we can hate Jackson and Olding for being dicks to women can we also unite in our hatred of Patrick Reed because he's a w**ker to his folks.

I don't hate either of them and they may well be decent lads in other ways, but nor do I have any sympathy that their careers are stalling as a result.  They brought it on themselves.  It doesn't appear to have been a spur of the moment/ out of character thing fuelled by drink.  It seems from the texts that this type of behaviour took place fairly regularly and was perhaps even planned.  It was going to get exposed at some point given their profiles.

All probably a result of too much money, too much time on their hands and too much porn.

You’re making out that having sex on a regular bases and telling your mates is a crime! Wise up

I'm not but 2-3 grown men setting up a drunken teenager for group sex with them is morally reprehensible, whether it's legal or not.

They were all around the same age and they hardly set her up. She was a willing participant.
No they weren't around the same age and she was drunk. Where you come from is it fine to double and treble up on drunk teenagers then?
They were all drunk, not as if they were sober and got her drunk. What is your definition of around the same age? Olding was around 22 and Jackson 23/24. The girl was 19. No big difference.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: StGallsGAA on May 05, 2018, 10:58:10 PM
If we can hate Jackson and Olding for being dicks to women can we also unite in our hatred of Patrick Reed because he's a w**ker to his folks.

I don't hate either of them and they may well be decent lads in other ways, but nor do I have any sympathy that their careers are stalling as a result.  They brought it on themselves.  It doesn't appear to have been a spur of the moment/ out of character thing fuelled by drink.  It seems from the texts that this type of behaviour took place fairly regularly and was perhaps even planned.  It was going to get exposed at some point given their profiles.

All probably a result of too much money, too much time on their hands and too much porn.

You’re making out that having sex on a regular bases and telling your mates is a crime! Wise up

I'm not but 2-3 grown men setting up a drunken teenager for group sex with them is morally reprehensible, whether it's legal or not.

They were all around the same age and they hardly set her up. She was a willing participant.
No they weren't around the same age and she was drunk. Where you come from is it fine to double and treble up on drunk teenagers then?
They were all drunk, not as if they were sober and got her drunk. What is your definition of around the same age? Olding was around 22 and Jackson 23/24. The girl was 19. No big difference.

You obviously do not have daughters. They did this sort of stuff regularly according to their WA group including spit roasting another girl the night before. WTF is wrong that they  can't go out and get a shag without sending girls home feeling degraded?  Do you really think the "willing participants" to these regular  threesomes woke up the next morning punching the air saying 'result, I got spit-roasted!!'
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: nrico2006 on May 05, 2018, 11:04:35 PM
If we can hate Jackson and Olding for being dicks to women can we also unite in our hatred of Patrick Reed because he's a w**ker to his folks.

I don't hate either of them and they may well be decent lads in other ways, but nor do I have any sympathy that their careers are stalling as a result.  They brought it on themselves.  It doesn't appear to have been a spur of the moment/ out of character thing fuelled by drink.  It seems from the texts that this type of behaviour took place fairly regularly and was perhaps even planned.  It was going to get exposed at some point given their profiles.

All probably a result of too much money, too much time on their hands and too much porn.

You’re making out that having sex on a regular bases and telling your mates is a crime! Wise up

I'm not but 2-3 grown men setting up a drunken teenager for group sex with them is morally reprehensible, whether it's legal or not.

They were all around the same age and they hardly set her up. She was a willing participant.
No they weren't around the same age and she was drunk. Where you come from is it fine to double and treble up on drunk teenagers then?
They were all drunk, not as if they were sober and got her drunk. What is your definition of around the same age? Olding was around 22 and Jackson 23/24. The girl was 19. No big difference.

You obviously do not have daughters. They did this sort of stuff regularly according to their WA group including spit roasting another girl the night before. WTF is wrong that they  can't go out and get a shag without sending girls home feeling degraded?  Do you really think the "willing participants" to these regular  threesomes woke up the next morning punching the air saying 'result, I got spit-roasted!!'

God knows. Most girls who participate are obviously dping it for enjoyment. Not my cup of tea though.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Lar Naparka on May 05, 2018, 11:23:04 PM
If we can hate Jackson and Olding for being dicks to women can we also unite in our hatred of Patrick Reed because he's a w**ker to his folks.

I don't hate either of them and they may well be decent lads in other ways, but nor do I have any sympathy that their careers are stalling as a result.  They brought it on themselves.  It doesn't appear to have been a spur of the moment/ out of character thing fuelled by drink.  It seems from the texts that this type of behaviour took place fairly regularly and was perhaps even planned.  It was going to get exposed at some point given their profiles.

All probably a result of too much money, too much time on their hands and too much porn.

You’re making out that having sex on a regular bases and telling your mates is a crime! Wise up

I'm not but 2-3 grown men setting up a drunken teenager for group sex with them is morally reprehensible, whether it's legal or not.

They were all around the same age and they hardly set her up. She was a willing participant.
No they weren't around the same age and she was drunk. Where you come from is it fine to double and treble up on drunk teenagers then?
They were all drunk, not as if they were sober and got her drunk. What is your definition of around the same age? Olding was around 22 and Jackson 23/24. The girl was 19. No big difference.

You obviously do not have daughters. They did this sort of stuff regularly according to their WA group including spit roasting another girl the night before. WTF is wrong that they  can't go out and get a shag without sending girls home feeling degraded?  Do you really think the "willing participants" to these regular  threesomes woke up the next morning punching the air saying 'result, I got spit-roasted!!'

God knows. Most girls who participate are obviously dping it for enjoyment. Not my cup of tea though.
I dunno and neither does anyone else who wasn’t a participant in the spit roasting. But I am fairly sure that the three boyos believed they were parting on good terms with the girl in question. Otherwise, i couldn’t see them boasting about their prowess the night before when they started ringing around.
If they were worried about possible consequences arising from what happened in Jackson’s bedroom, the first thought wouldn’t be to broadcast what they got up to. The more I think about it, the more certain I am that they were all taken by surprise when the police rounded them up.
That’s not to say the complainant was not raped but the three in the room with her were certain that what went on was consensual. 
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Dougal Maguire on May 06, 2018, 02:03:08 AM
You’ve got it spot on there Lar. That’s exactly how I see it. All that coupled with the invitation to the girl who wandered onto the room to join in suggestes they didn’t think they were doing anything wrong. In fact the fact they boasted about it next day would suggest that it wasn’t a regular occurrence
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on May 06, 2018, 06:02:03 AM
The main difference between porn and real life is what the woman brings to a situation. While spit roasting when pissed may have been the height of pleasure for the lads it wouldnt be guaranteed to hit the spot for every woman, especially if she feels objectified.

If they had done a few spit roasts before, their fame may have carried them over the line, covering over the risks. But some women might not be satisfied with just the fame and the ride. They might expect something more. And the lads had 17 pints and weren't set up for nuance.

There is a lot more to sex than the act.

And the lads were very unlucky with their timing too.  #MeToo took off recently. Power/Fame and impunity are not particularly fashionable .

As some comedian used to say on RTE years ago, it's nice to be important but it's more important to be nice.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Insane Bolt on May 06, 2018, 07:48:47 AM
Is a spit roast like a Sunday roast or more like a barbecue?😎
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 06, 2018, 09:01:42 AM
If we can hate Jackson and Olding for being dicks to women can we also unite in our hatred of Patrick Reed because he's a w**ker to his folks.

I don't hate either of them and they may well be decent lads in other ways, but nor do I have any sympathy that their careers are stalling as a result.  They brought it on themselves.  It doesn't appear to have been a spur of the moment/ out of character thing fuelled by drink.  It seems from the texts that this type of behaviour took place fairly regularly and was perhaps even planned.  It was going to get exposed at some point given their profiles.

All probably a result of too much money, too much time on their hands and too much porn.

You’re making out that having sex on a regular bases and telling your mates is a crime! Wise up

I'm not but 2-3 grown men setting up a drunken teenager for group sex with them is morally reprehensible, whether it's legal or not.

They were all around the same age and they hardly set her up. She was a willing participant.
No they weren't around the same age and she was drunk. Where you come from is it fine to double and treble up on drunk teenagers then?
They were all drunk, not as if they were sober and got her drunk. What is your definition of around the same age? Olding was around 22 and Jackson 23/24. The girl was 19. No big difference.

You obviously do not have daughters. They did this sort of stuff regularly according to their WA group including spit roasting another girl the night before. WTF is wrong that they  can't go out and get a shag without sending girls home feeling degraded?  Do you really think the "willing participants" to these regular  threesomes woke up the next morning punching the air saying 'result, I got spit-roasted!!'

I’ve two daughters. Your point is lost..the girl had sex
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: trileacman on May 06, 2018, 09:09:08 AM
The main difference between porn and real life is what the woman brings to a situation. While spit roasting when pissed may have been the height of pleasure for the lads it wouldnt be guaranteed to hit the spot for every woman, especially if she feels objectified.

If they had done a few spit roasts before, their fame may have carried them over the line, covering over the risks. But some women might not be satisfied with just the fame and the ride. They might expect something more. And the lads had 17 pints and weren't set up for nuance.

There is a lot more to sex than the act.

And the lads were very unlucky with their timing too.  #MeToo took off recently. Power/Fame and impunity are not particularly fashionable .

As some comedian used to say on RTE years ago, it's nice to be important but it's more important to be nice.

The board spit-roasting expert speaketh.

The most bizzare thing about internet forums is the manner in which people district and rationalise subjects and incidents. Who knew seafoids hidden pleasure was spit roast analysis.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Insane Bolt on May 06, 2018, 09:22:48 AM
Maybe he's been in a Turkish prison😂
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: imtommygunn on May 06, 2018, 10:55:47 AM
The main difference between porn and real life is what the woman brings to a situation. While spit roasting when pissed may have been the height of pleasure for the lads it wouldnt be guaranteed to hit the spot for every woman, especially if she feels objectified.

If they had done a few spit roasts before, their fame may have carried them over the line, covering over the risks. But some women might not be satisfied with just the fame and the ride. They might expect something more. And the lads had 17 pints and weren't set up for nuance.

There is a lot more to sex than the act.

And the lads were very unlucky with their timing too.  #MeToo took off recently. Power/Fame and impunity are not particularly fashionable .

As some comedian used to say on RTE years ago, it's nice to be important but it's more important to be nice.

Is there anything you aren't an expert on ;D
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on May 06, 2018, 10:57:20 AM
The main difference between porn and real life is what the woman brings to a situation. While spit roasting when pissed may have been the height of pleasure for the lads it wouldnt be guaranteed to hit the spot for every woman, especially if she feels objectified.

If they had done a few spit roasts before, their fame may have carried them over the line, covering over the risks. But some women might not be satisfied with just the fame and the ride. They might expect something more. And the lads had 17 pints and weren't set up for nuance.

There is a lot more to sex than the act.

And the lads were very unlucky with their timing too.  #MeToo took off recently. Power/Fame and impunity are not particularly fashionable .

As some comedian used to say on RTE years ago, it's nice to be important but it's more important to be nice.

The board spit-roasting expert speaketh.

The most bizzare thing about internet forums is the manner in which people district and rationalise subjects and incidents. Who knew seafoids hidden pleasure was spit roast analysis.
Are there any women in Tyrone apart from Philomena Begley?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on May 06, 2018, 01:19:21 PM
If we can hate Jackson and Olding for being dicks to women can we also unite in our hatred of Patrick Reed because he's a w**ker to his folks.

I don't hate either of them and they may well be decent lads in other ways, but nor do I have any sympathy that their careers are stalling as a result.  They brought it on themselves.  It doesn't appear to have been a spur of the moment/ out of character thing fuelled by drink.  It seems from the texts that this type of behaviour took place fairly regularly and was perhaps even planned.  It was going to get exposed at some point given their profiles.

All probably a result of too much money, too much time on their hands and too much porn.

You’re making out that having sex on a regular bases and telling your mates is a crime! Wise up

I'm not but 2-3 grown men setting up a drunken teenager for group sex with them is morally reprehensible, whether it's legal or not.

They were all around the same age and they hardly set her up. She was a willing participant.
No they weren't around the same age and she was drunk. Where you come from is it fine to double and treble up on drunk teenagers then?
They were all drunk, not as if they were sober and got her drunk. What is your definition of around the same age? Olding was around 22 and Jackson 23/24. The girl was 19. No big difference.

You obviously do not have daughters. They did this sort of stuff regularly according to their WA group including spit roasting another girl the night before. WTF is wrong that they  can't go out and get a shag without sending girls home feeling degraded?  Do you really think the "willing participants" to these regular  threesomes woke up the next morning punching the air saying 'result, I got spit-roasted!!'

I’ve two daughters. Your point is lost..the girl had sex

You’re obviously not great at empathising with these daughters because you’ve found it much easier to explain away the ‘lads’ numerous misdeeds. If you really have daughters it makes what you’ve done in this thread far worse.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 06, 2018, 02:16:01 PM
Syferus women have sex men have sex! There was no victims here! All went in with eyes wide open move on!
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Avondhu star on May 06, 2018, 04:29:03 PM
Syferus women have sex men have sex! There was no victims here! All went in with eyes wide open move on!
More than the eyes were wide open
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: trileacman on May 06, 2018, 10:58:26 PM
The main difference between porn and real life is what the woman brings to a situation. While spit roasting when pissed may have been the height of pleasure for the lads it wouldnt be guaranteed to hit the spot for every woman, especially if she feels objectified.

If they had done a few spit roasts before, their fame may have carried them over the line, covering over the risks. But some women might not be satisfied with just the fame and the ride. They might expect something more. And the lads had 17 pints and weren't set up for nuance.

There is a lot more to sex than the act.

And the lads were very unlucky with their timing too.  #MeToo took off recently. Power/Fame and impunity are not particularly fashionable .

As some comedian used to say on RTE years ago, it's nice to be important but it's more important to be nice.

The board spit-roasting expert speaketh.

The most bizzare thing about internet forums is the manner in which people district and rationalise subjects and incidents. Who knew seafoids hidden pleasure was spit roast analysis.
Are there any women in Tyrone apart from Philomena Begley?

Stunning retort, was it Philomena told ya about the spit roasts? I heard she's a loose one alright.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: moysider on May 07, 2018, 12:13:10 AM
If we can hate Jackson and Olding for being dicks to women can we also unite in our hatred of Patrick Reed because he's a w**ker to his folks.

I don't hate either of them and they may well be decent lads in other ways, but nor do I have any sympathy that their careers are stalling as a result.  They brought it on themselves.  It doesn't appear to have been a spur of the moment/ out of character thing fuelled by drink.  It seems from the texts that this type of behaviour took place fairly regularly and was perhaps even planned.  It was going to get exposed at some point given their profiles.

All probably a result of too much money, too much time on their hands and too much porn.

You’re making out that having sex on a regular bases and telling your mates is a crime! Wise up

I'm not but 2-3 grown men setting up a drunken teenager for group sex with them is morally reprehensible, whether it's legal or not.

They were all around the same age and they hardly set her up. She was a willing participant.
No they weren't around the same age and she was drunk. Where you come from is it fine to double and treble up on drunk teenagers then?
They were all drunk, not as if they were sober and got her drunk. What is your definition of around the same age? Olding was around 22 and Jackson 23/24. The girl was 19. No big difference.

You obviously do not have daughters. They did this sort of stuff regularly according to their WA group including spit roasting another girl the night before. WTF is wrong that they  can't go out and get a shag without sending girls home feeling degraded?  Do you really think the "willing participants" to these regular  threesomes woke up the next morning punching the air saying 'result, I got spit-roasted!!'

I’ve two daughters. Your point is lost..the girl had sex

She believed she was raped. That's why there was a court case. Most rape claims never even get to court.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: nrico2006 on May 07, 2018, 06:44:30 AM
If we can hate Jackson and Olding for being dicks to women can we also unite in our hatred of Patrick Reed because he's a w**ker to his folks.

I don't hate either of them and they may well be decent lads in other ways, but nor do I have any sympathy that their careers are stalling as a result.  They brought it on themselves.  It doesn't appear to have been a spur of the moment/ out of character thing fuelled by drink.  It seems from the texts that this type of behaviour took place fairly regularly and was perhaps even planned.  It was going to get exposed at some point given their profiles.

All probably a result of too much money, too much time on their hands and too much porn.

You’re making out that having sex on a regular bases and telling your mates is a crime! Wise up

I'm not but 2-3 grown men setting up a drunken teenager for group sex with them is morally reprehensible, whether it's legal or not.

They were all around the same age and they hardly set her up. She was a willing participant.
No they weren't around the same age and she was drunk. Where you come from is it fine to double and treble up on drunk teenagers then?
They were all drunk, not as if they were sober and got her drunk. What is your definition of around the same age? Olding was around 22 and Jackson 23/24. The girl was 19. No big difference.

You obviously do not have daughters. They did this sort of stuff regularly according to their WA group including spit roasting another girl the night before. WTF is wrong that they  can't go out and get a shag without sending girls home feeling degraded?  Do you really think the "willing participants" to these regular  threesomes woke up the next morning punching the air saying 'result, I got spit-roasted!!'

I’ve two daughters. Your point is lost..the girl had sex

She believed she was raped. That's why there was a court case. Most rape claims never even get to court.
She might have believed she was raped or she simply made it up.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 07, 2018, 10:11:47 AM
Seems the court thought she wasn’t raped..

Seen one there of a man who got 6 years for rape and transpired she lied... admitted it to a friend on her social media..the guy was a promising  sports star!

Maybe at the time she believed she was raped too

Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on May 08, 2018, 01:59:30 AM
Seems the court thought she wasn’t raped..

Seen one there of a man who got 6 years for rape and transpired she lied... admitted it to a friend on her social media..the guy was a promising  sports star!

Maybe at the time she believed she was raped too

Is that supposed to be relevant to this case in some manner?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 08, 2018, 09:10:17 AM
Seems the court thought she wasn’t raped..

Seen one there of a man who got 6 years for rape and transpired she lied... admitted it to a friend on her social media..the guy was a promising  sports star!

Maybe at the time she believed she was raped too

Is that supposed to be relevant to this case in some manner?

None, what's so ever.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AQMP on May 08, 2018, 10:24:50 AM
I have to admit I'm astounded by the naivety of some of the "just let the lads play" posters here.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: rosnarun on May 08, 2018, 10:37:01 AM
Seems the court thought she wasn’t raped..

Seen one there of a man who got 6 years for rape and transpired she lied... admitted it to a friend on her social media..the guy was a promising  sports star!

Maybe at the time she believed she was raped too

Is that supposed to be relevant to this case in some manner?

None, what's so ever.

so some one can get Raped even if no rape took place?
the feminists have really got some lads heads fried.
do words have no meaning any more?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: NAG1 on May 08, 2018, 11:24:48 AM
Seems the court thought she wasn’t raped..

Seen one there of a man who got 6 years for rape and transpired she lied... admitted it to a friend on her social media..the guy was a promising  sports star!

Maybe at the time she believed she was raped too

Is that supposed to be relevant to this case in some manner?

None, what's so ever.

so some one can get Raped even if no rape took place?
the feminists have really got some lads heads fried.
do words have no meaning any more?

Only when they suit the narrative that some of the posters on here want to ram down everyone else's throat.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 08, 2018, 12:14:19 PM
I have to admit I'm astounded by the naivety of some of the "just let the lads play" posters here.

Can they get a job though?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on May 08, 2018, 12:25:09 PM
I have to admit I'm astounded by the naivety of some of the "just let the lads play" posters here.

Can they get a job though?

There’s plenty of jobs available to them that don’t pay a couple hundred thousand a year. Turns out that not guilty in a court really isn’t the same thing as innocent and you’ve had more trouble realising that than the ‘lads’ themselves have had.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: NAG1 on May 08, 2018, 12:28:49 PM
I have to admit I'm astounded by the naivety of some of the "just let the lads play" posters here.

Can they get a job though?

There’s plenty of jobs available to them that don’t pay a couple hundred thousand a year. Turns out that not guilty in a court really isn’t the same thing as innocent and you’ve had more trouble realising that than the ‘lads’ themselves have had.

So they just can't get a well paying job?
Ok working for minimum wage?

Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on May 08, 2018, 12:38:58 PM
I have to admit I'm astounded by the naivety of some of the "just let the lads play" posters here.

Can they get a job though?

There’s plenty of jobs available to them that don’t pay a couple hundred thousand a year. Turns out that not guilty in a court really isn’t the same thing as innocent and you’ve had more trouble realising that than the ‘lads’ themselves have had.

So they just can't get a well paying job?
Ok working for minimum wage?

Playing sports professionally is a privilege that’s easily taken away. For someone on a forum ostensibly about sports, needing to told that is a little incredible.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: NAG1 on May 08, 2018, 12:42:24 PM
I have to admit I'm astounded by the naivety of some of the "just let the lads play" posters here.

Can they get a job though?

There’s plenty of jobs available to them that don’t pay a couple hundred thousand a year. Turns out that not guilty in a court really isn’t the same thing as innocent and you’ve had more trouble realising that than the ‘lads’ themselves have had.

So they just can't get a well paying job?
Ok working for minimum wage?

Playing sports professionally is a privilege that’s easily taken away. For someone on a forum onstenibly about sports needing to told that is a little incredible.

You of all people referring to anyone on here as incredible is something of a paradox.

Simply pointing out the glaring hole in your post. Using the term 'professionally' in yours merely backed up my point so thanks for that.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on May 08, 2018, 12:45:46 PM
I have to admit I'm astounded by the naivety of some of the "just let the lads play" posters here.

Can they get a job though?

There’s plenty of jobs available to them that don’t pay a couple hundred thousand a year. Turns out that not guilty in a court really isn’t the same thing as innocent and you’ve had more trouble realising that than the ‘lads’ themselves have had.

So they just can't get a well paying job?
Ok working for minimum wage?

Playing sports professionally is a privilege that’s easily taken away. For someone on a forum onstenibly about sports needing to told that is a little incredible.

You of all people referring to anyone on here as incredible is something of a paradox.

Simply pointing out the glaring hole in your post. Using the term 'professionally' in yours merely backed up my point so thanks for that.

There’s no hole in my post. There’s plenty of willing people who will do their jobs very ably that weren’t implicated in a gang-rape. That you and some others still don’t realise how toxic their behaviour was to a large segement of the population is as predictable as your childish ‘but you’ response.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 08, 2018, 12:51:17 PM
I have to admit I'm astounded by the naivety of some of the "just let the lads play" posters here.

Can they get a job though?

There’s plenty of jobs available to them that don’t pay a couple hundred thousand a year. Turns out that not guilty in a court really isn’t the same thing as innocent and you’ve had more trouble realising that than the ‘lads’ themselves have had.

So they just can't get a well paying job?
Ok working for minimum wage?

Playing sports professionally is a privilege that’s easily taken away. For someone on a forum onstenibly about sports needing to told that is a little incredible.

You of all people referring to anyone on here as incredible is something of a paradox.

Simply pointing out the glaring hole in your post. Using the term 'professionally' in yours merely backed up my point so thanks for that.

There’s no hole in my post. There’s plenty of willing people who will do their jobs very ably that weren’t implicated in a gang-rape. That you and some others still don’t realise how toxic their behaviour was to a large segement of the population is as predictable as your childish ‘but you’ response.

What rape ? Did I miss something here?

So, no high paying job or getting paid to play rugby? So working in a bank? anyone 'implicated (but found not guilty) in a gang-rape) would be ok for the bank to employ them?

Sure ya'd have the mob down at the bank ya balloon
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Taylor on May 08, 2018, 01:20:49 PM
Fcuk me syf but wise yourself up man.

This gang rape shite. It went to court - they were found not guilty. As everyone is innocent until proven guilty it should be simple enough to understand
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AQMP on May 08, 2018, 01:26:32 PM
I have to admit I'm astounded by the naivety of some of the "just let the lads play" posters here.
Can they get a job though?

You sound a bit like Cathy Newman on Channel 4 News interviewing that Canadian psychologist recently.

Can you understand why they are struggling to get a job as a professional rugby player?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: nrico2006 on May 08, 2018, 01:33:45 PM
Their abilities on the pitch are not the reason they aren't getting a job; it's the crazy PC brigade that are preventing them, just unfortunate that their trial came shortly after the Weinstein furore and all the other movements going on at the minute.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 08, 2018, 01:36:22 PM
I have to admit I'm astounded by the naivety of some of the "just let the lads play" posters here.
Can they get a job though?

You sound a bit like Cathy Newman on Channel 4 News interviewing that Canadian psychologist recently.

Can you understand why they are struggling to get a job as a professional rugby player?

I can, because they were brought to court by a woman who says they raped her... and after that was shown to be different.. the social justice warriors/keyboard warriors/#metoo/#ibelieveher femminists didnt get their pound of flesh and went for it with a campaign of throwing mud, as you know mud sticks...

So its not about being in a camp or saying who guilty or not, its about trusting the system, if the system needs changing, then change it, what happens when the system still doesnt give you the result, change it again? I'd assume this woman will go for a civil action case against these guys, considering how strong the case was in her favour?

The court of law is there to protect people, but this doesnt suit some people, depending on the result  :o
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: trailer on May 08, 2018, 01:37:53 PM
Their abilities on the pitch are not the reason they aren't getting a job; it's the crazy PC brigade that are preventing them, just unfortunate that their trial came shortly after the Weinstein furore and all the other movements going on at the minute.

It's not the crazy PC brigade. That's totally inaccurate. It's Money. Sponsor's money. The sponsors don't want two guys who seem to have little respect for women running around in jerseys with their logos on it. Sponsors customers reach far beyond rugby teams. They don't want to be associated with a toxic profile.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Taylor on May 08, 2018, 01:44:45 PM
Their abilities on the pitch are not the reason they aren't getting a job; it's the crazy PC brigade that are preventing them, just unfortunate that their trial came shortly after the Weinstein furore and all the other movements going on at the minute.

It's not the crazy PC brigade. That's totally inaccurate. It's Money. Sponsor's money. The sponsors don't want two guys who seem to have little respect for women running around in jerseys with their logos on it. Sponsors customers reach far beyond rugby teams. They don't want to be associated with a toxic profile.

If the PC brigade/#metoo/#ibelieveher didnt throw as much as possible at them both on social media and with protests etc then there is no way they would be as toxic to sponsors as they now seem to be especially as they were found not guilty.

FFS look at Mike Tyson who was found guilty. And he had an even higher profile than these guys
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AQMP on May 08, 2018, 01:45:32 PM
I have to admit I'm astounded by the naivety of some of the "just let the lads play" posters here.
Can they get a job though?

You sound a bit like Cathy Newman on Channel 4 News interviewing that Canadian psychologist recently.

Can you understand why they are struggling to get a job as a professional rugby player?

I can, because they were brought to court by a woman who says they raped her... and after that was shown to be different..the social justice warriors/keyboard warriors/#metoo/#ibelieveher femminists didnt get their pound of flesh and went for it with a campaign of throwing mud, as you know mud sticks...

So its not about being in a camp or saying who guilty or not, its about trusting the system, if the system needs changing, then change it, what happens when the system still doesnt give you the result, change it again? I'd assume this woman will go for a civil action case against these guys, considering how strong the case was in her favour?

The court of law is there to protect people, but this doesnt suit some people, depending on the result  :o

That's the problem MR2.  You and a lot of others think that the rape charge is why they can't get a game.  It's not.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 08, 2018, 01:48:57 PM
Their abilities on the pitch are not the reason they aren't getting a job; it's the crazy PC brigade that are preventing them, just unfortunate that their trial came shortly after the Weinstein furore and all the other movements going on at the minute.

It's not the crazy PC brigade. That's totally inaccurate. It's Money. Sponsor's money. The sponsors don't want two guys who seem to have little respect for women running around in jerseys with their logos on it. Sponsors customers reach far beyond rugby teams. They don't want to be associated with a toxic profile.

If they went to court for drink driving and found guilty would sponsors be pressurized by the mob to ensure they didnt play for any club?

Have you been to an Ulster rugby match or know Ulster rugby fans? of the many I know there has been no problems, they'd prefer the players back playing but hey they arent stupid, they know that the shit that comes with the keyboard warriors and the 80 odd people at the ground with banners is a no win situation... but they still want them to play for A n other

Its only toxic for one reason.. I've said it many times on here, if they were guilty then I hoped for the book to be thrown at them and the full maximum sentence given, it wasnt even close

AQMP, I know fine well why they wont be playing, its been discussed infinity.. its still the wrong reason, built up purely by the mob
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: trailer on May 08, 2018, 01:52:23 PM
Their abilities on the pitch are not the reason they aren't getting a job; it's the crazy PC brigade that are preventing them, just unfortunate that their trial came shortly after the Weinstein furore and all the other movements going on at the minute.

It's not the crazy PC brigade. That's totally inaccurate. It's Money. Sponsor's money. The sponsors don't want two guys who seem to have little respect for women running around in jerseys with their logos on it. Sponsors customers reach far beyond rugby teams. They don't want to be associated with a toxic profile.

If the PC brigade/#metoo/#ibelieveher didnt throw as much as possible at them both on social media and with protests etc then there is no way they would be as toxic to sponsors as they now seem to be especially as they were found not guilty.

FFS look at Mike Tyson who was found guilty. And he had an even higher profile than these guys

When you're accused of rape you can't shake it. Ever. Companies and sports teams have always run a mile from these issues, regardless of how much the PC brigade/#metoo/#ibelieveher thrown at them. As a business owner I'd do the same. They're simply toxic. They should have thought about that before they acted like arseholes.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: magpie seanie on May 08, 2018, 01:58:46 PM
Whether they raped her or not their conduct was awful. Plus it's fairly obvious hey lied in court or weren't able to remember anything that happened. Plus when they found out the girl was distressed (which any reasonable person would accept was at the latest, the next day if not sooner) they didn't do anything.

They made their own beds.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 08, 2018, 02:00:17 PM
Their abilities on the pitch are not the reason they aren't getting a job; it's the crazy PC brigade that are preventing them, just unfortunate that their trial came shortly after the Weinstein furore and all the other movements going on at the minute.

It's not the crazy PC brigade. That's totally inaccurate. It's Money. Sponsor's money. The sponsors don't want two guys who seem to have little respect for women running around in jerseys with their logos on it. Sponsors customers reach far beyond rugby teams. They don't want to be associated with a toxic profile.

If the PC brigade/#metoo/#ibelieveher didnt throw as much as possible at them both on social media and with protests etc then there is no way they would be as toxic to sponsors as they now seem to be especially as they were found not guilty.

FFS look at Mike Tyson who was found guilty. And he had an even higher profile than these guys

When you're accused of rape you can't shake it. Ever. Companies and sports teams have always run a mile from these issues, regardless of how much the PC brigade/#metoo/#ibelieveher thrown at them. As a business owner I'd do the same. They're simply toxic. They should have thought about that before they acted like arseholes.

Ah, to never act like an arsehole!

Jesus, there are some fecking saints on this board, there's me thinking growing up and being an arsehole when out, was the norm..

Being convicted of raped completly different to telling your mates in a group chat that you had sex the night before, its a good thing that Bestie didnt have group chats

Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 08, 2018, 02:03:11 PM
Whether they raped her or not their conduct was awful. Plus it's fairly obvious hey lied in court or weren't able to remember anything that happened. Plus when they found out the girl was distressed (which any reasonable person would accept was at the latest, the next day if not sooner) they didn't do anything.

They made their own beds.

I thought this had been established ? The rest is fairly accurate but not a hanging offence
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: trailer on May 08, 2018, 02:06:17 PM
Their abilities on the pitch are not the reason they aren't getting a job; it's the crazy PC brigade that are preventing them, just unfortunate that their trial came shortly after the Weinstein furore and all the other movements going on at the minute.

It's not the crazy PC brigade. That's totally inaccurate. It's Money. Sponsor's money. The sponsors don't want two guys who seem to have little respect for women running around in jerseys with their logos on it. Sponsors customers reach far beyond rugby teams. They don't want to be associated with a toxic profile.

If the PC brigade/#metoo/#ibelieveher didnt throw as much as possible at them both on social media and with protests etc then there is no way they would be as toxic to sponsors as they now seem to be especially as they were found not guilty.

FFS look at Mike Tyson who was found guilty. And he had an even higher profile than these guys

When you're accused of rape you can't shake it. Ever. Companies and sports teams have always run a mile from these issues, regardless of how much the PC brigade/#metoo/#ibelieveher thrown at them. As a business owner I'd do the same. They're simply toxic. They should have thought about that before they acted like arseholes.

Ah, to never act like an arsehole!

Jesus, there are some fecking saints on this board, there's me thinking growing up and being an arsehole when out, was the norm..

Being convicted of raped completly different to telling your mates in a group chat that you had sex the night before, its a good thing that Bestie didnt have group chats

I fucked about a fair bit. But a girl never left my company in the state that wee girl left theirs. They have to own it now. This is the consequences of their actions. If they had taken their roles as professional sports people seriously they wouldn't be in this mess.
Life's tough. They're learning that now.

I know they've been found innocent and I get that, but their behaviour fell well below what is acceptable as a professional athlete. That's what is f**king them over now.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AQMP on May 08, 2018, 02:11:42 PM
Their abilities on the pitch are not the reason they aren't getting a job; it's the crazy PC brigade that are preventing them, just unfortunate that their trial came shortly after the Weinstein furore and all the other movements going on at the minute.

It's not the crazy PC brigade. That's totally inaccurate. It's Money. Sponsor's money. The sponsors don't want two guys who seem to have little respect for women running around in jerseys with their logos on it. Sponsors customers reach far beyond rugby teams. They don't want to be associated with a toxic profile.

If the PC brigade/#metoo/#ibelieveher didnt throw as much as possible at them both on social media and with protests etc then there is no way they would be as toxic to sponsors as they now seem to be especially as they were found not guilty.

FFS look at Mike Tyson who was found guilty. And he had an even higher profile than these guys

When you're accused of rape you can't shake it. Ever. Companies and sports teams have always run a mile from these issues, regardless of how much the PC brigade/#metoo/#ibelieveher thrown at them. As a business owner I'd do the same. They're simply toxic. They should have thought about that before they acted like arseholes.

Ah, to never act like an arsehole!

Jesus, there are some fecking saints on this board, there's me thinking growing up and being an arsehole when out, was the norm..

Being convicted of raped completly different to telling your mates in a group chat that you had sex the night before, its a good thing that Bestie didnt have group chats


Fúck me MR2, you really just don't get it do you??

Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 08, 2018, 02:14:53 PM
Their abilities on the pitch are not the reason they aren't getting a job; it's the crazy PC brigade that are preventing them, just unfortunate that their trial came shortly after the Weinstein furore and all the other movements going on at the minute.

It's not the crazy PC brigade. That's totally inaccurate. It's Money. Sponsor's money. The sponsors don't want two guys who seem to have little respect for women running around in jerseys with their logos on it. Sponsors customers reach far beyond rugby teams. They don't want to be associated with a toxic profile.

If the PC brigade/#metoo/#ibelieveher didnt throw as much as possible at them both on social media and with protests etc then there is no way they would be as toxic to sponsors as they now seem to be especially as they were found not guilty.

FFS look at Mike Tyson who was found guilty. And he had an even higher profile than these guys

When you're accused of rape you can't shake it. Ever. Companies and sports teams have always run a mile from these issues, regardless of how much the PC brigade/#metoo/#ibelieveher thrown at them. As a business owner I'd do the same. They're simply toxic. They should have thought about that before they acted like arseholes.

Ah, to never act like an arsehole!

Jesus, there are some fecking saints on this board, there's me thinking growing up and being an arsehole when out, was the norm..

Being convicted of raped completly different to telling your mates in a group chat that you had sex the night before, its a good thing that Bestie didnt have group chats

I fucked about a fair bit. But a girl never left my company in the state that wee girl left theirs. They have to own it now. This is the consequences of their actions. If they had taken their roles as professional sports people seriously they wouldn't be in this mess.
Life's tough. They're learning that now.

I know they've been found innocent and I get that, but their behaviour fell well below what is acceptable as a professional athlete. That's what is f**king them over now.

I've only your word on that, you could be full of shit
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on May 08, 2018, 02:26:29 PM
Their abilities on the pitch are not the reason they aren't getting a job; it's the crazy PC brigade that are preventing them, just unfortunate that their trial came shortly after the Weinstein furore and all the other movements going on at the minute.

It's not the crazy PC brigade. That's totally inaccurate. It's Money. Sponsor's money. The sponsors don't want two guys who seem to have little respect for women running around in jerseys with their logos on it. Sponsors customers reach far beyond rugby teams. They don't want to be associated with a toxic profile.

If the PC brigade/#metoo/#ibelieveher didnt throw as much as possible at them both on social media and with protests etc then there is no way they would be as toxic to sponsors as they now seem to be especially as they were found not guilty.

FFS look at Mike Tyson who was found guilty. And he had an even higher profile than these guys

When you're accused of rape you can't shake it. Ever. Companies and sports teams have always run a mile from these issues, regardless of how much the PC brigade/#metoo/#ibelieveher thrown at them. As a business owner I'd do the same. They're simply toxic. They should have thought about that before they acted like arseholes.

Ah, to never act like an arsehole!

Jesus, there are some fecking saints on this board, there's me thinking growing up and being an arsehole when out, was the norm..

Being convicted of raped completly different to telling your mates in a group chat that you had sex the night before, its a good thing that Bestie didnt have group chats

I fucked about a fair bit. But a girl never left my company in the state that wee girl left theirs. They have to own it now. This is the consequences of their actions. If they had taken their roles as professional sports people seriously they wouldn't be in this mess.
Life's tough. They're learning that now.

I know they've been found innocent and I get that, but their behaviour fell well below what is acceptable as a professional athlete. That's what is f**king them over now.

I've only your word on that, you could be full of shit

Seriously? Defending the twat brigade to the hilt but when someone says they never raped a woman you question them? Are you trying to be odious or does it come naturally to you?

Is there something from your past driving your incredible level of denfesiveness on this topic, like there is with Asal Mor?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: trailer on May 08, 2018, 02:29:50 PM
Their abilities on the pitch are not the reason they aren't getting a job; it's the crazy PC brigade that are preventing them, just unfortunate that their trial came shortly after the Weinstein furore and all the other movements going on at the minute.

It's not the crazy PC brigade. That's totally inaccurate. It's Money. Sponsor's money. The sponsors don't want two guys who seem to have little respect for women running around in jerseys with their logos on it. Sponsors customers reach far beyond rugby teams. They don't want to be associated with a toxic profile.

If the PC brigade/#metoo/#ibelieveher didnt throw as much as possible at them both on social media and with protests etc then there is no way they would be as toxic to sponsors as they now seem to be especially as they were found not guilty.

FFS look at Mike Tyson who was found guilty. And he had an even higher profile than these guys

When you're accused of rape you can't shake it. Ever. Companies and sports teams have always run a mile from these issues, regardless of how much the PC brigade/#metoo/#ibelieveher thrown at them. As a business owner I'd do the same. They're simply toxic. They should have thought about that before they acted like arseholes.

Ah, to never act like an arsehole!

Jesus, there are some fecking saints on this board, there's me thinking growing up and being an arsehole when out, was the norm..

Being convicted of raped completly different to telling your mates in a group chat that you had sex the night before, its a good thing that Bestie didnt have group chats

I fucked about a fair bit. But a girl never left my company in the state that wee girl left theirs. They have to own it now. This is the consequences of their actions. If they had taken their roles as professional sports people seriously they wouldn't be in this mess.
Life's tough. They're learning that now.

I know they've been found innocent and I get that, but their behaviour fell well below what is acceptable as a professional athlete. That's what is f**king them over now.

I've only your word on that, you could be full of shit

Tell you what you smart arse. Go f**k yourself.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 08, 2018, 02:31:58 PM
Their abilities on the pitch are not the reason they aren't getting a job; it's the crazy PC brigade that are preventing them, just unfortunate that their trial came shortly after the Weinstein furore and all the other movements going on at the minute.

It's not the crazy PC brigade. That's totally inaccurate. It's Money. Sponsor's money. The sponsors don't want two guys who seem to have little respect for women running around in jerseys with their logos on it. Sponsors customers reach far beyond rugby teams. They don't want to be associated with a toxic profile.

If the PC brigade/#metoo/#ibelieveher didnt throw as much as possible at them both on social media and with protests etc then there is no way they would be as toxic to sponsors as they now seem to be especially as they were found not guilty.

FFS look at Mike Tyson who was found guilty. And he had an even higher profile than these guys

When you're accused of rape you can't shake it. Ever. Companies and sports teams have always run a mile from these issues, regardless of how much the PC brigade/#metoo/#ibelieveher thrown at them. As a business owner I'd do the same. They're simply toxic. They should have thought about that before they acted like arseholes.

Ah, to never act like an arsehole!

Jesus, there are some fecking saints on this board, there's me thinking growing up and being an arsehole when out, was the norm..

Being convicted of raped completly different to telling your mates in a group chat that you had sex the night before, its a good thing that Bestie didnt have group chats

I fucked about a fair bit. But a girl never left my company in the state that wee girl left theirs. They have to own it now. This is the consequences of their actions. If they had taken their roles as professional sports people seriously they wouldn't be in this mess.
Life's tough. They're learning that now.

I know they've been found innocent and I get that, but their behaviour fell well below what is acceptable as a professional athlete. That's what is f**king them over now.

I've only your word on that, you could be full of shit

Seriously? Defending the twat brigade to the hilt but when someone says they never raped a woman you question them? Are you trying to be odious or does it come naturally to you?

Hmm, where did I questioned him on rape? he stated clearly, and I put it in bold, I can only take his word that any girl left him, not distressed..

The reason I said that was to show, that you can't take anyones word really, more so here, cause I havent a clue who he is, neither do you

Does making your own sit up come naturally to you? Carry on
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 08, 2018, 02:34:29 PM
Their abilities on the pitch are not the reason they aren't getting a job; it's the crazy PC brigade that are preventing them, just unfortunate that their trial came shortly after the Weinstein furore and all the other movements going on at the minute.

It's not the crazy PC brigade. That's totally inaccurate. It's Money. Sponsor's money. The sponsors don't want two guys who seem to have little respect for women running around in jerseys with their logos on it. Sponsors customers reach far beyond rugby teams. They don't want to be associated with a toxic profile.

If the PC brigade/#metoo/#ibelieveher didnt throw as much as possible at them both on social media and with protests etc then there is no way they would be as toxic to sponsors as they now seem to be especially as they were found not guilty.

FFS look at Mike Tyson who was found guilty. And he had an even higher profile than these guys

When you're accused of rape you can't shake it. Ever. Companies and sports teams have always run a mile from these issues, regardless of how much the PC brigade/#metoo/#ibelieveher thrown at them. As a business owner I'd do the same. They're simply toxic. They should have thought about that before they acted like arseholes.

Ah, to never act like an arsehole!

Jesus, there are some fecking saints on this board, there's me thinking growing up and being an arsehole when out, was the norm..

Being convicted of raped completly different to telling your mates in a group chat that you had sex the night before, its a good thing that Bestie didnt have group chats

I fucked about a fair bit. But a girl never left my company in the state that wee girl left theirs. They have to own it now. This is the consequences of their actions. If they had taken their roles as professional sports people seriously they wouldn't be in this mess.
Life's tough. They're learning that now.

I know they've been found innocent and I get that, but their behaviour fell well below what is acceptable as a professional athlete. That's what is f**king them over now.

I've only your word on that, you could be full of shit

Tell you what you smart arse. Go f**k yourself.

Go f**k yourself?  :-\
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on May 08, 2018, 03:01:39 PM
There was a good article about this in the Guardian. The boys are not going to be employed at the market rate now.
They will be in the wilderness for a while.  The caravan will move on. Ched Evans is back playing soccer. After a while doing penance
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 09, 2018, 10:38:54 PM
http://rugbylad.ie/paddy-jackson-signs-three-year-deal-sale-despite-club-denying-move/
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AQMP on May 14, 2018, 01:08:45 PM
To follow up on the differences in reporting rape trials in NI and RoI, reporting restrictions were lifted this morning on a case allowing the media to report that last month former Ros Na Run actor Garrett Phillips was convicted of the oral rape of a 20 year woman in Galway in 2015.  Sentencing will take place in July.  Frank Greaney's twitter feed has more details.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Dinny Breen on May 14, 2018, 02:49:03 PM
Met Paddy Sat night in Portrush. A pale imitation.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on May 14, 2018, 03:58:55 PM
Met Paddy Sat night in Portrush. A pale imitation.

Good.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Sweeper 123 on May 14, 2018, 04:02:25 PM
Good what?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: AQMP on May 18, 2018, 05:19:31 PM
Jackson's application for costs was heard today.  The judge deferred her judgement and said that due to work pressures she wouldn't deliver a judgement in the near future.  Jackson's QC stated in support of his application that Jackson "had no employment and no offers of employment".
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on May 18, 2018, 05:30:30 PM
Jackson's application for costs was heard today.  The judge deferred her judgement and said that due to work pressures she wouldn't deliver a judgement in the near future.  Jackson's QC stated in support of his application that Jackson "had no employment and no offers of employment".

He made plenty of money before he was tried for rape.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on May 18, 2018, 05:36:26 PM
Jackson's application for costs was heard today.  The judge deferred her judgement and said that due to work pressures she wouldn't deliver a judgement in the near future.  Jackson's QC stated in support of his application that Jackson "had no employment and no offers of employment".
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/may/04/paddy-jackson-stuart-olding-ulster-rugby-acquittals
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on May 18, 2018, 06:50:30 PM
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/paddy-jackson-paid-an-enormous-price-for-the-events-of-that-evening-court-told-during-legal-fees-application-36921335.html
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: StGallsGAA on May 18, 2018, 11:05:34 PM
Met Paddy Sat night in Portrush. A pale imitation.

He looked like Dublin in the 15th century??
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: seafoid on May 28, 2018, 03:57:14 PM
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/stuart-olding-has-joined-french-secondtier-club-brive-36953595.html
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 28, 2018, 04:12:11 PM
Paddy will be a Sale.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Insane Bolt on May 28, 2018, 04:46:18 PM
Paddy will be a Sale.

Well he is certainly 'for sale'😜
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: nrico2006 on May 29, 2018, 10:49:23 AM
Good to see Olding get a club, talented player.  Wonder who Jackson will sign for?
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on May 29, 2018, 10:54:08 AM
Good to see Olding get a club, talented player.  Wonder who Jackson will sign for?

Might be the first time Olding has been called talented. As bang average a club player as you’re likely to find. It’s telling he only got a job in the French second tier and that was because his Ulster buddy was taking over the club and was ok with brushing his actions off the field under the carpet.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Asal Mor on May 29, 2018, 11:23:43 AM
After one of the most high profile court cases in sports history?  Olding is about 100,000 times more known for his off-field actions than anything he's done on a rugby field. This club is giving him a chance knowing they’ll face a backlash for it. Fair play to them for not bowing down to online bullies.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: sid waddell on May 29, 2018, 11:37:24 AM
After one of the most high profile court cases in sports history?  Olding is about 100,000 times more known for his off-field actions than anything he's done on a rugby field. This club is giving him a chance knowing they’ll face a backlash for it. Fair play to them for not bowing down to online bullies.
The only person involved in the case who was a genuine victim of online bullies was the complainant.

But sure airbrush that out of history all you want while wallowing in perpetual imagined victimhood on behalf of rugby players who behaved in disgraceful fashion - at best.

Jackson and Olding are NOT victims.

Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on May 29, 2018, 11:42:18 AM
After one of the most high profile court cases in sports history?  Olding is about 100,000 times more known for his off-field actions than anything he's done on a rugby field. This club is giving him a chance knowing they’ll face a backlash for it. Fair play to them for not bowing down to online bullies.

Interesting that you call out ‘online bullies’ and not the player for his own scummy behaviour that precipitated this horrible mess.

You’ve been very quiet in this thread since you were called out on the reasons why you’re so defensive of these ‘lads’ too..
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: nrico2006 on May 29, 2018, 12:42:30 PM
After one of the most high profile court cases in sports history?  Olding is about 100,000 times more known for his off-field actions than anything he's done on a rugby field. This club is giving him a chance knowing they’ll face a backlash for it. Fair play to them for not bowing down to online bullies.

Interesting that you call out ‘online bullies’ and not the player for his own scummy behaviour that precipitated this horrible mess.

You’ve been very quiet in this thread since you were called out on the reasons why you’re so defensive of these ‘lads’ too..

Olding and Jackson didn't bully anybody though. 
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Asal Mor on May 29, 2018, 01:05:31 PM
After one of the most high profile court cases in sports history?  Olding is about 100,000 times more known for his off-field actions than anything he's done on a rugby field. This club is giving him a chance knowing they’ll face a backlash for it. Fair play to them for not bowing down to online bullies.

Interesting that you call out ‘online bullies’ and not the player for his own scummy behaviour that precipitated this horrible mess.

You’ve been very quiet in this thread since you were called out on the reasons why you’re so defensive of these ‘lads’ too..
I have other things in my life besides pointless debates with the likes of you. I don't care for your little insinuations either. History has shown that those who are the most zealous preachers like yourself are often the worst abusers. I believe Olding is innocent and hope Brive have a great season as a reward for their courage.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Asal Mor on May 29, 2018, 01:31:46 PM
After one of the most high profile court cases in sports history?  Olding is about 100,000 times more known for his off-field actions than anything he's done on a rugby field. This club is giving him a chance knowing they’ll face a backlash for it. Fair play to them for not bowing down to online bullies.
The only person involved in the case who was a genuine victim of online bullies was the complainant.

But sure airbrush that out of history all you want while wallowing in perpetual imagined victimhood on behalf of rugby players who behaved in disgraceful fashion - at best.

Jackson and Olding are NOT victims.
They were found not guilty Sid and a quality player like Jackson would have been snapped up but for the online campaign. I'd prefer justice to be administered by the courts rather than social media.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 29, 2018, 01:36:14 PM
Good to see Olding get a club, talented player.  Wonder who Jackson will sign for?

Might be the first time Olding has been called talented. As bang average a club player as you’re likely to find. It’s telling he only got a job in the French second tier and that was because his Ulster buddy was taking over the club and was ok with brushing his actions off the field under the carpet.

A versatile back, who played at out-half, centre, and full-back, Stuart Olding represented Ireland at both Under 18 and Under 20 level

 He made his debut for Ulster as a substitute against Leinster in December 2011, but just over a year later he established himself as a member of the senior squad. He scored his first try for Ulster, against Glasgow, in February 2013 and Olding scored four further tries in quick succession.

Man-of-the-match awards against the Dragons and Connacht soon followed and Olding was regarded as one of the most exciting young players in Irish Rugby

Average? #Syferusknowsfuckall

Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: magpie seanie on May 29, 2018, 03:44:27 PM
What's that song from Frozen again guys.......
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 29, 2018, 03:52:39 PM
What's that song from Frozen again guys.......


Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Syferus on May 29, 2018, 04:02:37 PM
Good to see Olding get a club, talented player.  Wonder who Jackson will sign for?

Might be the first time Olding has been called talented. As bang average a club player as you’re likely to find. It’s telling he only got a job in the French second tier and that was because his Ulster buddy was taking over the club and was ok with brushing his actions off the field under the carpet.

A versatile back, who played at out-half, centre, and full-back, Stuart Olding represented Ireland at both Under 18 and Under 20 level

 He made his debut for Ulster as a substitute against Leinster in December 2011, but just over a year later he established himself as a member of the senior squad. He scored his first try for Ulster, against Glasgow, in February 2013 and Olding scored four further tries in quick succession.

Man-of-the-match awards against the Dragons and Connacht soon followed and Olding was regarded as one of the most exciting young players in Irish Rugby

Average? #Syferusknowsfuckall

You did a good job of showing your incredible level of fanboyism for a likely rapist and at best a very lucky and scummy individual.

He still is an absolutely average and replaceable club level player. The big clubs had no interest in his supposedly predigious talents for some odd reason. Jackson is a limited player too but at least he was at a more valuable position.
Title: Re: Paddy Jackson apology
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 29, 2018, 04:54:41 PM
Good to see Olding get a club, talented player.  Wonder who Jackson will sign for?

Might be the first time Olding has been called talented. As bang average a club player as you’re likely to find. It’s telling he only got a job in the French second tier and that was because his Ulster buddy was taking over the club and was ok with brushing his actions off the field under the carpet.

A versatile back, who played at out-half, centre, and full-back, Stuart Olding represented Ireland at both Under 18 and Under 20 level

 He made his debut for Ulster as a substitute against Leinster in December 2011, but just over a year later he established himself as a member of the senior squad. He scored his first try for Ulster, against Glasgow, in February 2013 and Olding scored four further tries in quick succession.

Man-of-the-match awards against the Dragons and Connacht soon followed and Olding was regarded as one of the most exciting