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GAA Discussion => Local GAA Discussion => Laois => Topic started by: Wherediditallgowrong on October 19, 2017, 11:21:54 PM

Title: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: Wherediditallgowrong on October 19, 2017, 11:21:54 PM
Hi all, want your opinions on championship draw? Is a Leinster semi final our aim for next year while bringing through a revamped squad with better level of fitness?
Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: rrhf on October 20, 2017, 06:55:37 AM
No doubt..
Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: Don Draper on October 20, 2017, 07:50:55 AM
A semi final against Kildare in Croke Park has to be the aim. Anything after that, is a bonus.
Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: GAA-SMART on October 20, 2017, 09:50:57 AM
Absolutely, all of a sudden from the daldroms of last year a D4 win in Croke Park and a Leinster Semi Final would be extremely positive
Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: redsetanta on October 20, 2017, 04:01:17 PM
Lets be honest lads unless there is a serious improvement on last year we would be hammered in Croke Park by Kildare. There is a massive gulf there in my opinion. We need a better conditioned team and new players and maybe we'd be in a position to compete somewhat. I don't think a hammering in Croke Park wiould be of any benefit to the team.

I would be more concerned about promotion from Div 4 maybe going up as champions which is a realistic target for year 1. Anything after that is a bonus.
Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: Don Draper on October 20, 2017, 04:16:45 PM
Lets be honest lads unless there is a serious improvement on last year we would be hammered in Croke Park by Kildare. There is a massive gulf there in my opinion. We need a better conditioned team and new players and maybe we'd be in a position to compete somewhat. I don't think a hammering in Croke Park wiould be of any benefit to the team.

I would be more concerned about promotion from Div 4 maybe going up as champions which is a realistic target for year 1. Anything after that is a bonus.
We're talking Championship here. No one said anything about beating Kildare, but getting to that stage should be the goal.

Get promotion, get on a winning run, get to the semi final. Where it goes from there, we'll see then. But its about getting fit, getting a system, getting back winning, regularly.

Throwing a game to avoid playing Kildare in a Leinster semi final is an out there suggestion though.
Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: Junior Ex Laoistalk on October 20, 2017, 04:31:04 PM
Totally agree with Don on this, Div4 or not, if we can't beat Wexford and Westmeath at home we will have shown no improvement whatsoever which would be a major disappointment to me..
Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: Keyser SŲze on October 20, 2017, 06:34:46 PM
Ideal draw for the players and management team. Sets the year up nicely, as others have said.

Division 4 win and get to a Leinster semi final v Kildare in Croke Park is a realistic and achievable aim. It would be a positive year after several that were static at best.
Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: BallyroanAbu on October 20, 2017, 06:45:37 PM
What is an acceptable year getting out of Div 4 and being competitive against Div 2 & 3 teams in the championship?   I would take that, lets be honest Laois are not going to get anywhere near Kildare who next year are a Div 1 team.

Static you are kind Keyser
Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: Keyser SŲze on October 20, 2017, 07:15:26 PM
What is an acceptable year getting out of Div 4 and being competitive against Div 2 & 3 teams in the championship?   I would take that, lets be honest Laois are not going to get anywhere near Kildare who next year are a Div 1 team.

Static you are kind Keyser

A team going well can pull out big performances. At least for 45/50 mins. There is also the possibility of Kildare's year in Division 1 being a very tough one. These two factors could see Laois have a good rattle for 45/50 mins. I think anyways. No expectation and nothing to lose.
Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: oneflewoverthecuckoonest on October 20, 2017, 11:14:43 PM
the football draw was as good as could be expected. If you cannot beat Wexford at home you are in deep trouble, as Wexford is another county like ourselves declining in the past 5 years or so. Westmeath were the weakest of the 4 seeded teams and again we have a realistic shot at downing them..however defeating Wexford or Westmeath would be contingent on the panel becoming much fitter....we don't want to see established lads with their hands on the hips panting for breath after 20 minutes(like this year in numerous games). If we happened to win the first 2 games, with confidence up we might rattle Kildare.

I was worried about the 2nd tier in hurling, looking again at the draw last night(or the fixtures in tier 1), it may turn out a blessing in disguise that Laois are in Tier 2...we can if primed beat all 5 others in Tier 2, and then we earn a crack at the 3rd placer in Leinster/Munster and are 70 minutes away from an All Ireland quarter final......a fine carrot to dangle............on the other hand look at poor Offaly.......I can only see 4 heavy demoralising defeats coming their way in Tier 1 and then relegation....that will be hard to stomach by their supporters and could end up causing them difficulties trying to get out of Tier 2 the following year.
Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: Tony on October 21, 2017, 11:58:50 AM
Excellent draw for us.

I never got that thinking of "oh we're better off losing to Wexford so that we wont get beaten by Kildare." That's a terrible attitude to have in my opinion.

We'll try our best and see how far it will take us.

Promotion and leinster semi is somewhat realistic so we should aim for that. Fearing a beating to Kildare is weak. Let's focus on Wekford and the Qtr first, if we win those there's no reason why we cant be competitive VS Kildare if we have as good a setup as we think we might.

Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: Don Draper on October 21, 2017, 12:03:58 PM
the football draw was as good as could be expected. If you cannot beat Wexford at home you are in deep trouble, as Wexford is another county like ourselves declining in the past 5 years or so. Westmeath were the weakest of the 4 seeded teams and again we have a realistic shot at downing them..however defeating Wexford or Westmeath would be contingent on the panel becoming much fitter....we don't want to see established lads with their hands on the hips panting for breath after 20 minutes(like this year in numerous games). If we happened to win the first 2 games, with confidence up we might rattle Kildare.

I was worried about the 2nd tier in hurling, looking again at the draw last night(or the fixtures in tier 1), it may turn out a blessing in disguise that Laois are in Tier 2...we can if primed beat all 5 others in Tier 2, and then we earn a crack at the 3rd placer in Leinster/Munster and are 70 minutes away from an All Ireland quarter final......a fine carrot to dangle............on the other hand look at poor Offaly.......I can only see 4 heavy demoralising defeats coming their way in Tier 1 and then relegation....that will be hard to stomach by their supporters and could end up causing them difficulties trying to get out of Tier 2 the following year.
A very good assessment
Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: BallyroanAbu on October 21, 2017, 12:17:35 PM
Excellent draw for us.

I never got that thinking of "oh we're better off losing to Wexford so that we wont get beaten by Kildare." That's a terrible attitude to have in my opinion.

We'll try our best and see how far it will take us.

Promotion and leinster semi is somewhat realistic so we should aim for that. Fearing a beating to Kildare is weak. Let's focus on Wekford and the Qtr first, if we win those there's no reason why we cant be competitive VS Kildare if we have as good a setup as we think we might.

Fair enough Tony, but lets be realistic we are a Div 4 team it took 5 years to get to that point, it is as good a draw as we could have hoped for and hopefully it will be a year of rebuilding and green shoots.
Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: Tony on October 21, 2017, 12:34:55 PM
Yeah I agree with you there Ballyroan. There are about 5 new players from this years county championship that i think can make a good difference to our squad. Let's hope the old reliables commit, too, especially tried and trusted backs like Cahir Healy. We could really do with everyone on board. Those lads around the age of Healy, Timmons, JOL, Begley etc still have another 3-4 good years in them in my opinion. John Surgue is universally liked, from what I hear. No excuse for lads saying "ah sure he's from Town X, he'll be biased" and no excuse for lads from portlaoise either. If you want to play, you want to play, and that's it. A players career is short enough. Why not challenge yourself at the top level while you're able to do it. Best of luck to all who commit to play for Laois in 2018, we as support will be with you all the way. If you give 100%, regardless of what happens, we'll be very satisfied. We're a proud GAA county and we can all do better than the last couple of years. Laois Abu
Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: blueandwhite1 on October 21, 2017, 11:24:27 PM
Anyone have opinions on the new players that Sugrue is or should be targeting for his panel?
Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: burdizzo on October 22, 2017, 09:22:24 PM
Are the dates for our hurlers available yet?
Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: OTF on October 23, 2017, 01:42:05 PM
Yeah I agree with you there Ballyroan. There are about 5 new players from this years county championship that i think can make a good difference to our squad. Let's hope the old reliables commit, too, especially tried and trusted backs like Cahir Healy. We could really do with everyone on board. Those lads around the age of Healy, Timmons, JOL, Begley etc still have another 3-4 good years in them in my opinion. John Surgue is universally liked, from what I hear. No excuse for lads saying "ah sure he's from Town X, he'll be biased" and no excuse for lads from portlaoise either. If you want to play, you want to play, and that's it. A players career is short enough. Why not challenge yourself at the top level while you're able to do it. Best of luck to all who commit to play for Laois in 2018, we as support will be with you all the way. If you give 100%, regardless of what happens, we'll be very satisfied. We're a proud GAA county and we can all do better than the last couple of years. Laois Abu
Tony I very much doubt it is thereís 5 players out there that will make a difference.
I havenít seen any club football this year and Iím waiting to see the name of one player who will force him way on to this team, as a matter of fact Iím waiting for about 5 years for news of that outstanding new player.
Thereís 8 from last years panel who will be 32 or older next year thereís no 3 or 4 years left in those boys in fact most of them were finished 2 years ago, letís be real here unless 7 or 8 very good players emerge out of nowhere further decline is inevitable.
Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: Tony on October 24, 2017, 12:27:30 PM
Yeah, i know there are a few lads that don't have 3 or 4 years left - like Padraig or Brendan or Ross.

My point is that we still have a large chunk of lads who are still in their prime or late prime. I consider 23 - 31 to be the prime years, and most of our lads are still within that age bracket, albeit most of them towards the latter stages. 3-4 years for a 28/29/30 year old is normal as most lads bow out around the 33/34 age mark. Having said that of course we could do with some fresh new talent making the transition.
Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: clonadmad on October 24, 2017, 12:43:45 PM
I presume we are back training at this stage or getting very close to making a start.

We should be taking a leaf out of Davy fitz's approach to last years hurling league.

The most pressing target should be to get out of Div 4.

Everything else after that is bonus territory for year 1 of Sugrue's reign
Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: OTF on October 24, 2017, 10:09:59 PM
Yeah, i know there are a few lads that don't have 3 or 4 years left - like Padraig or Brendan or Ross.

My point is that we still have a large chunk of lads who are still in their prime or late prime. I consider 23 - 31 to be the prime years, and most of our lads are still within that age bracket, albeit most of them towards the latter stages. 3-4 years for a 28/29/30 year old is normal as most lads bow out around the 33/34 age mark. Having said that of course we could do with some fresh new talent making the transition.
They might play on but they are no where near the players they once were.
Who are the 5 new players ?
If itís the same panel as last year forget it, we wonít beat Westmeath.
Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: BallyroanAbu on October 24, 2017, 11:29:50 PM
Yeah, i know there are a few lads that don't have 3 or 4 years left - like Padraig or Brendan or Ross.

My point is that we still have a large chunk of lads who are still in their prime or late prime. I consider 23 - 31 to be the prime years, and most of our lads are still within that age bracket, albeit most of them towards the latter stages. 3-4 years for a 28/29/30 year old is normal as most lads bow out around the 33/34 age mark. Having said that of course we could do with some fresh new talent making the transition.
They might play on but they are no where near the players they once were.
Who are the 5 new players ?
If itís the same panel as last year forget it, we wonít beat Westmeath.

Easily 5-10 players in this year's Laois Championship who have the potential to be on the Laois Team relatively quickly.
Jamie Farrell
Frank Flanagan
David Holland
Chris Finn
Ciaran McEvoy
Benny Carroll
David Seale
Cormac Murphy
Diarmuid Whelan
Sean Byrne
there are more
they may not be quite ready but a good winter of Strength and Conditioning a relatively easy Div 4 and we can build from there they do not need to be overnight sensations
Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: Giovanni on October 25, 2017, 09:02:49 AM
Evan O Carroll, if fit and interested, would be like a new (and important) addition to the team.
I'm sure Sean Moore would be more than capable of cutting his teeth in Division 4?
Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: Don Draper on October 25, 2017, 09:07:36 AM
Yeah, i know there are a few lads that don't have 3 or 4 years left - like Padraig or Brendan or Ross.

My point is that we still have a large chunk of lads who are still in their prime or late prime. I consider 23 - 31 to be the prime years, and most of our lads are still within that age bracket, albeit most of them towards the latter stages. 3-4 years for a 28/29/30 year old is normal as most lads bow out around the 33/34 age mark. Having said that of course we could do with some fresh new talent making the transition.
They might play on but they are no where near the players they once were.
Who are the 5 new players ?
If itís the same panel as last year forget it, we wonít beat Westmeath.

Easily 5-10 players in this year's Laois Championship who have the potential to be on the Laois Team relatively quickly.
Jamie Farrell
Frank Flanagan
David Holland
Chris Finn
Ciaran McEvoy
Benny Carroll
David Seale
Cormac Murphy
Diarmuid Whelan
Sean Byrne
there are more
they may not be quite ready but a good winter of Strength and Conditioning a relatively easy Div 4 and we can build from there they do not need to be overnight sensations
FWIW, Jamie Farrell, David Seale and Cormac Murphy have already played senior intercounty. You are right however, a few solid, well conditioned, well drilled, motivated and enthusiastic youngsters could easily boost a squad a surprising amount. Not every young player needs to be a Donie. Sometimes they're as well off not being, because the backslappers around the county won't have the f**king head blown off them by the time they even turn up at senior training. A respected manager can do a lot with a hungry and willing young player.
Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: BallyroanAbu on October 25, 2017, 09:43:49 AM
Yeah, i know there are a few lads that don't have 3 or 4 years left - like Padraig or Brendan or Ross.

My point is that we still have a large chunk of lads who are still in their prime or late prime. I consider 23 - 31 to be the prime years, and most of our lads are still within that age bracket, albeit most of them towards the latter stages. 3-4 years for a 28/29/30 year old is normal as most lads bow out around the 33/34 age mark. Having said that of course we could do with some fresh new talent making the transition.
They might play on but they are no where near the players they once were.
Who are the 5 new players ?
If itís the same panel as last year forget it, we wonít beat Westmeath.

Easily 5-10 players in this year's Laois Championship who have the potential to be on the Laois Team relatively quickly.
Jamie Farrell
Frank Flanagan
David Holland
Chris Finn
Ciaran McEvoy
Benny Carroll
David Seale
Cormac Murphy
Diarmuid Whelan
Sean Byrne
there are more
they may not be quite ready but a good winter of Strength and Conditioning a relatively easy Div 4 and we can build from there they do not need to be overnight sensations
FWIW, Jamie Farrell, David Seale and Cormac Murphy have already played senior intercounty. You are right however, a few solid, well conditioned, well drilled, motivated and enthusiastic youngsters could easily boost a squad a surprising amount. Not every young player needs to be a Donie. Sometimes they're as well off not being, because the backslappers around the county won't have the f**king head blown off them by the time they even turn up at senior training. A respected manager can do a lot with a hungry and willing young player.
Exactly also they probably give the whole thing a massive mood of positivity,  I really think that we have been mentally destroyed by the ineptitude of 5 years of poor management.  This is going to be the hardest hurdle to overcome.
Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: High Fielder on October 25, 2017, 09:52:56 AM
Backs are the problem lads. Very few about. Biggest issue for Sugrue by far
Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: BallyroanAbu on October 25, 2017, 10:41:44 AM
Your right, I think he is going to have convert players into backs.   Laois attitude to defending since McNulty left is diabolical.
Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: Tony on October 25, 2017, 10:59:16 AM
I think we can have a decent back line if Timmons is fit and Healy is back.

Brody
Healy / Timmons / Booth (or Keogh)
Farrell (or Lillis) / Begley / McMahon (or Strong).

I'm not saying that's a brilliant backline as those lads are getting on a bit but if all of those lads are there, I'd trust them enough. We could certainly do with some new backs on the squad but to say that we have no backs is not true.

Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: High Fielder on October 25, 2017, 11:17:49 AM
With the exception of Healy, not one of those lads is sticky enough. Good players but not good backs.
Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: Butch Cassidy on October 25, 2017, 12:15:33 PM
Can anyone tell me if lads are trained to tackle and defendefend? Does it happen at club level?

Bringing 13 men behind a ball for the sake of it isn't defending and it's lazy. Lads in the development squads need to be shown how to tackle, defend and track runners. It's our biggest problem.
Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: High Fielder on October 25, 2017, 01:48:21 PM
You've hit the nail Butch. Good defending is a skill. Even at club level, it has been shocking to see how badly lads tackle and defend. It doesn't bode well
Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: Giovanni on October 25, 2017, 04:04:36 PM
This is all true but we didn't have so many sticky defenders when McNulty was in charge either.

You can do a lot if the defensive system is effective and the attitude of the players is right.
Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: redsetanta on October 25, 2017, 05:38:15 PM
Laois hurlers have 3 away games in the tier 2 championship to Kerry, Antrim and Meath with Carlow and Westmeath at home.

It will be a tough enough schedule.
Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: High Fielder on October 25, 2017, 07:39:33 PM
This is all true but we didn't have so many sticky defenders when McNulty was in charge either.

You can do a lot if the defensive system is effective and the attitude of the players is right.

I still believe that the players have to be defensively sound to start with. A good system will help of course, but numbers can't mask poor defending from individuals
Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: Tony on October 25, 2017, 09:31:22 PM
With the exception of Healy, not one of those lads is sticky enough. Good players but not good backs.
Timmons is not a good back? I rate Begley too especially with the modern game. Keogh and booth are decent too. I don't understand how people can call them bad backs, but each to their own. Timmons is a given though surely. When fit, one of the top ten full backs in the country, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: Butch Cassidy on October 25, 2017, 10:06:03 PM
From looking at the Kildare game (I know bad example) the issue was the work rate out the field. Lads were not tracking runners and putting Kildare under pressure. As a result this left Laois exposed and created numerous 2 v1 situations that made the backs look bad.

Dublins team have athletes all over the pitch with power, pace but work hard. This is the main area we need to work on. Love to see the GPS output from all the teams to compare them
Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: BallyroanAbu on October 26, 2017, 08:39:27 AM
This year was a low point in Laois GAA, mentally we are already beaten before we got on the pitch.  The teams were a reflection of this and even just a change in direction can have a massive impact on our on field performances.   I really think that we lost a thousand small battles this year which culminated in the on field farce we were subjected to.
Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: Andy06 on October 26, 2017, 11:03:18 AM
Can anyone tell me if lads are trained to tackle and defendefend? Does it happen at club level?

Bringing 13 men behind a ball for the sake of it isn't defending and it's lazy. Lads in the development squads need to be shown how to tackle, defend and track runners. It's our biggest problem.

Just picking up on the above point from Butch.
Of the three areas mentioned (tackle, defend and track runners), the only item where skill is needed is tackling in my opinion. Defending is more of a tactic whose success relies heavily (but not solely) on the skill of tackling.

Of the three, the one I feel needs the least work is tracking runners. To me good fitness and attitude is all a player needs for this, not hours on the training ground or countless drills at a young age.
If you look at all the points we conceded this year (and actually going back a number of years) how many of these were scored by lads who had all the time in the world to steady themselves, then take the shot without a single Laois player within yards of them simply as a result of sprinting (in some cases jogging) down the pitch unopposed.

Getting lads to track back should be the easiest of the above points to do. If we have them at a decent fitness level and the player wants to burst a gut to get back, it should be enough to see off most teams.
Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: Laoiseabu on October 26, 2017, 04:56:16 PM
If your six defenders were good enough and working as a unit covering one another you shouldn't need to play extra men back. But instead numbers are back and no one knows who is picking up who which is too confusing for players.
Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: Giovanni on October 26, 2017, 05:03:46 PM
From looking at the Kildare game (I know bad example) the issue was the work rate out the field. Lads were not tracking runners and putting Kildare under pressure. As a result this left Laois exposed and created numerous 2 v1 situations that made the backs look bad.

Dublins team have athletes all over the pitch with power, pace but work hard. This is the main area we need to work on. Love to see the GPS output from all the teams to compare them

Would agree very much with this.

Good defence is about putting as much pressure as possible on opposition shooters. Some teams do that very well. Laois did it fairly well under McNulty (although there were some shortcomings in that system too).

The top 3 teams will, of course, have the excellent tackling skills (which creates larger number of turnovers) as well as the general pressure on the opposition. Having said that, I don't see that many classic top defenders in the Kerry team for example.

I'd be happy enough if we could just improve the level of pressure that we apply on the opposition shooters. That in itself should make a big difference.
Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: Tony on October 26, 2017, 06:03:15 PM
First and foremost, before any plans or any tactics, we have to get properly fit. The best plan in the world will not work if your players are busting a lung after 5 minutes.

Hopefully Sugrue, with his background, will know this. The players will have to sacrifice a lot and be in the best fitness of their lives if we're going to be competitive with the likes of Kildare, Meath etc. This will probably take 2-3 years as the past few set ups have not been up to standard fitness wise.

The last time the Laois players were competitively fit, lasting the pace with Dublin was under Justin McNulty.
Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: O moore parklife on October 27, 2017, 10:35:04 PM
Lads anyone know who the 6th lad on the management team is bald lad with a beard from munster been there all week in o moore park. Might be the new caretaker who knows😂
Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: Junior Ex Laoistalk on October 28, 2017, 01:35:07 AM
Don't forget we're only Div4 by the width of a post, if that last effort by Darren Strong in the last league game against Offaly had gone over we would still be in Div3.
Sugru has a lot to build on and if lads commit we will have a great chance of winning this division and setting ourselves up for a good championship run.

I would have to agree on the fitness argument, don't think I've ever seen a Laois senior team as unfit as last years team...
Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: SCFC on October 28, 2017, 11:33:23 AM
Trial game during the week. Anyone hear anything about it?
Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: Butch Cassidy on October 28, 2017, 03:56:11 PM
I might be way off but i don't think the lads were unfit. They were training since November. The issue was the lack of pace in the team which makes it crazy that Dillon wasn't starting. Apart from Farrell and Damien O'Connor where was the pace? We need to inject some youth and pace into the team.
Title: Re: Championship Draw 2018
Post by: OTF on October 28, 2017, 04:59:48 PM
I might be way off but i don't think the lads were unfit. They were training since November. The issue was the lack of pace in the team which makes it crazy that Dillon wasn't starting. Apart from Farrell and Damien O'Connor where was the pace? We need to inject some youth and pace into the team.

Any suggestions