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Non GAA Discussion => General discussion => Topic started by: AQMP on December 08, 2016, 03:27:44 PM

Title: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on December 08, 2016, 03:27:44 PM
Can't see this covered anywhere else.  This story should be huge.  Major f**k-up by Arlene...why aren't the Shinners all over this like a rash?? ::)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38229535

"Serious systematic failings" in a Stormont-run renewable energy scheme are likely to hit the Northern Ireland budget by "hundreds of millions of pounds", the Audit Office has said.

The Renewable Heat Incentive scheme was run by the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment (DETI).  The Audit Office said £140m could be taken from the region's block grant from the Treasury to plug the deficit.  The economy minister said the findings were "deeply shocking".  The scheme was set up to encourage businesses and domestic users to switch to biomass heating systems, mostly burning wood pellets.  More than £1bn of public money is due to be paid out over the next 20 years as a result of it.  The investigation was prompted when a whistleblower contacted the Northern Ireland Executive in January alleging that the scheme was being abused.
One of the claims was that a farmer was aiming to collect about £1m over 20 years from the scheme for heating an empty shed.  The whistleblower also claimed large factories that had previously not been heated were using the scheme to install boilers with the intention of running them throughout the year to collect about £1.5m over 20 years.

Kieran Donnelly, the auditor general, said there was "no upper limit on the amount of energy that would be paid for".  "The more heat that is generated, the more is paid," he said.  In one example cited by the report, a business taking part in the same scheme in Great Britain could collect about £192,000 over 20 years by using a boiler all year round, but a Northern Ireland firm doing the same could earn £860,000.  Mr Donnelly said the scheme had "serious systematic failings from the start".  DETI has since been renamed as the Department of the Economy.  The current minister Simon Hamilton (DUP) said ongoing costs of the scheme to taxpayers were "incredible".  "Opportunities were missed to remedy the situation" by those "directly responsible for administering the scheme," he said.
"External consultants are already being appointed to conduct on-the-spot and thorough inspections of installations to ensure they meet the spirit and letter of the scheme," he said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38248147

Interestingly Simon Hamilton tried to block the publication of the report earlier in the year.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Walt Jabsco on December 08, 2016, 04:28:52 PM
Am I alone in thinking this or has anybody thought of this - the scheme uses wood pellets as the fuel and there is a massive pellet production plant in Arlene's back yard where a good number are employed. The plant was set up 2007 quite possibly with financial help from Invest NI which is connected to DETI. There was also the fracking controversy in Fermanagh also where Arlene was embroiled in by granting a licence for an area which included land owned by her or her connection IIRC  Looks like a case of no smoke without fire to me or did the fire just not go out and has ben rekindled (no pun intended)   
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: screenexile on December 08, 2016, 04:34:42 PM
It's a clusterfuck and anybody with their head screwed on at the time got tore into it and I know of a few doing very well out of it!

Can they row it back and renege on what they said they'd pay out?

Either way Arlene royally fucked herself . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b39yQp-G7I0
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on December 08, 2016, 04:54:50 PM
Am I alone in thinking this or has anybody thought of this - the scheme uses wood pellets as the fuel and there is a massive pellet production plant in Arlene's back yard where a good number are employed. The plant was set up 2007 quite possibly with financial help from Invest NI which is connected to DETI. There was also the fracking controversy in Fermanagh also where Arlene was embroiled in by granting a licence for an area which included land owned by her or her connection IIRC  Looks like a case of no smoke without fire to me or did the fire just not go out and has ben rekindled (no pun intended)   

I think there's something like that at the heart of this Walt. 

Key questions - why was the level of support raised to a level where essentially if you burnt £100 worth of pellets, you got a grant of more than £100 and the more you burnt the more money you got, which led to hotels and nursing homes having the heating on full blast while it was 24 deg outside -

and when they realised that this was going to cost a holy fortune and they decided to close the scheme, why did they keep it open for 10 weeks more, apparently there was a rush of applications during that period.  Approval rate of applications was something like 98%.  Who was approved during this period and how much did it cost?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on December 08, 2016, 04:57:36 PM
It's a clusterfuck and anybody with their head screwed on at the time got tore into it and I know of a few doing very well out of it!

Can they row it back and renege on what they said they'd pay out?

Either way Arlene royally fucked herself . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b39yQp-G7I0

I think there's going to be pressure on them to cancel these contract but that will lead to legal ramifications and maybe more money.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: screenexile on December 08, 2016, 05:01:21 PM
It's a clusterfuck and anybody with their head screwed on at the time got tore into it and I know of a few doing very well out of it!

Can they row it back and renege on what they said they'd pay out?

Either way Arlene royally fucked herself . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b39yQp-G7I0

I think there's going to be pressure on them to cancel these contract but that will lead to legal ramifications and maybe more money.

Yeah the language they're using in the article above doesn't sound like it would have too much standing in a court of law...

"External consultants are already being appointed to conduct on-the-spot and thorough inspections of installations to ensure they meet the spirit and letter of the scheme,"

They'd be laughed out of the place yes they can find those abusing it but I don't think they have a way to shut them down!
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: seafoid on December 08, 2016, 05:12:38 PM
Arlene is not very good.
Her call on Brexit was insane.
Dancing "Arlene's on fire" in a hotel that was firebombed and in which a number of Protestants died was very stupid if not comedy gold .
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Walt Jabsco on December 08, 2016, 05:29:37 PM
The request for the release of the list of grant aid recipients being withheld under Data Protection to me adds to the suspicion of those that may be involved could add further to the complicity of Arlene in the affair.
SF have asked for further legal advice on whether the list being withheld under Data Protection legislation is permissible. IMO SF are gathering an arsenal to deliver a broadside where there will be few survivors. They are all after blood Nesbitt Allister et al smell the DUPs big time

 
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Orior on December 08, 2016, 05:30:48 PM
Arlene is not very good.
Her call on Brexit was insane.
Dancing "Arlene's on fire" in a hotel that was firebombed and in which a number of Protestants died was very stupid if not comedy gold .

The Chinese probably wondered who was the bloke that turned up when they were expecting a female.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: imtommygunn on December 08, 2016, 05:38:08 PM
Am I alone in thinking this or has anybody thought of this - the scheme uses wood pellets as the fuel and there is a massive pellet production plant in Arlene's back yard where a good number are employed. The plant was set up 2007 quite possibly with financial help from Invest NI which is connected to DETI. There was also the fracking controversy in Fermanagh also where Arlene was embroiled in by granting a licence for an area which included land owned by her or her connection IIRC  Looks like a case of no smoke without fire to me or did the fire just not go out and has ben rekindled (no pun intended)   

I would say she's up to her neck in it too. These things don't just get done by coincidence.

These people are having a laugh and raking the money in.

(As per usual they will no doubt get away with it too)
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Frank_The_Tank on December 08, 2016, 05:47:58 PM
A massive f@ck up.  Heads should roll in the civil service as well.  Some of them.are on 60-100k a year salaries and are still employed.

On another point its a pity people weren't a bit more ethical in using them.  Heating on with windows open just to get more money...do they not realise it is public money they are getting that could be spent on hospitals/infrastructure/education.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: armaghniac on December 08, 2016, 06:07:11 PM
On another point its a pity people weren't a bit more ethical in using them.  Heating on with windows open just to get more money...do they not realise it is public money they are getting that could be spent on hospitals/infrastructure/education.

Yeah right.
Ethics in this case would be growing tomatoes and not cannabis.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Frank_The_Tank on December 08, 2016, 06:13:23 PM
On another point its a pity people weren't a bit more ethical in using them.  Heating on with windows open just to get more money...do they not realise it is public money they are getting that could be spent on hospitals/infrastructure/education.

Yeah right.
Ethics in this case would be growing tomatoes and not cannabis.

How do you work that out?  Do you think it is ethical for a college to have the heating on 24/7 with windows open in the middle of summer when it is 24 degrees outside.  Or for a farmer to heat and empty shed?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: armaghniac on December 08, 2016, 06:17:37 PM
On another point its a pity people weren't a bit more ethical in using them.  Heating on with windows open just to get more money...do they not realise it is public money they are getting that could be spent on hospitals/infrastructure/education.

Yeah right.
Ethics in this case would be growing tomatoes and not cannabis.

How do you work that out?  Do you think it is ethical for a college to have the heating on 24/7 with windows open in the middle of summer when it is 24 degrees outside.  Or for a farmer to heat and empty shed?

I don't think it ethical at all, but in such cases people are not ethical.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: TabClear on December 08, 2016, 06:21:25 PM
It's a clusterfuck and anybody with their head screwed on at the time got tore into it and I know of a few doing very well out of it!

Can they row it back and renege on what they said they'd pay out?

Either way Arlene royally fucked herself . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b39yQp-G7I0

I would say they will be 'auditing' people in the scheme to death to try and cancel contracts on any technicality.  Problem is that this will probably catch more legitimate users who've made minor mistakes than the scheme abusers as no doubt they will be able to ensure they don't get caught.

The whole thing is pathetic. Only here
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Frank_The_Tank on December 08, 2016, 06:21:57 PM
On another point its a pity people weren't a bit more ethical in using them.  Heating on with windows open just to get more money...do they not realise it is public money they are getting that could be spent on hospitals/infrastructure/education.

Yeah right.
Ethics in this case would be growing tomatoes and not cannabis.

How do you work that out?  Do you think it is ethical for a college to have the heating on 24/7 with windows open in the middle of summer when it is 24 degrees outside.  Or for a farmer to heat and empty shed?

I don't think it ethical at all, but in such cases people are not ethical.

I know they aren't - hence why i wrote its a pity people weren't more ethical as it is public money that could be spent on education hospitals etc they are 'burning'
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: BennyCake on December 08, 2016, 07:01:59 PM
A massive f@ck up.  Heads should roll in the civil service as well.  Some of them.are on 60-100k a year salaries and are still employed.

On another point its a pity people weren't a bit more ethical in using them.  Heating on with windows open just to get more money...do they not realise it is public money they are getting that could be spent on hospitals/infrastructure/education.

Yeah and maybe if they'd stop giving grants for bonfires, people would have to pay less in Rates. People will always be screwed out of their own money no matter how much is wasted or saved by government.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Hereiam on December 08, 2016, 10:32:23 PM
Not to mention small amounts going to the UDA
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: cornerback on December 09, 2016, 09:44:21 AM
There was some amount of squirming from Simon Hamilton last night on The View.  Unfortunately, I missed the start of the interview but Mark Carruthers had him rattled a few times & SH is usually very composed in interviews.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: seafoid on December 09, 2016, 09:53:43 AM
Not to mention small amounts going to the UDA
The UDA needs to modernise its music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H6emkn5BOU&list=PL10982C67BFB0D732

The UVF are further ahead on the curve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMGmuJBKOM8

but still a good bit behind the Fenians

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmq6k0D7w_0
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on December 09, 2016, 12:43:54 PM
There was some amount of squirming from Simon Hamilton last night on The View.  Unfortunately, I missed the start of the interview but Mark Carruthers had him rattled a few times & SH is usually very composed in interviews.

Complete bluffing from start to finish.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: sensethetone on December 09, 2016, 12:55:14 PM
There was some amount of squirming from Simon Hamilton last night on The View.  Unfortunately, I missed the start of the interview but Mark Carruthers had him rattled a few times & SH is usually very composed in interviews.

Complete bluffing from start to finish.

Yes it appeared Carruthers was pressing Simon Hamilton, but I imagine the DUP only agreed to the interview with the pre-condition that it was one on one not Simon vs 2-3 others looking answers and trying to trip him  up. I think he got of light.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on December 09, 2016, 01:22:56 PM
There was some amount of squirming from Simon Hamilton last night on The View.  Unfortunately, I missed the start of the interview but Mark Carruthers had him rattled a few times & SH is usually very composed in interviews.

Complete bluffing from start to finish.

Yes it appeared Carruthers was pressing Simon Hamilton, but I imagine the DUP only agreed to the interview with the pre-condition that it was one on one not Simon vs 2-3 others looking answers and trying to trip him  up. I think he got of light.

Yeah probably.  One interesting thing Carruthers did say was the bit about "would some of the names of those who received the grant be embarrassing to the DUP?"  I don't think Carruthers would have asked that if the answer was "no".  I suspect the BBC have the names.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on December 09, 2016, 05:43:38 PM
Probably find the PWC report of its visits to the hot sheds has become available.  Nolan appeared to know that the heat was also being pumped into residential properties beside the sheds.  Has the potential to do more damage to DUP than NAMA as cronyism and corruption in relation to heating resounds much more to most people as they fear the cost of heating their own homes as we head into the long winter months.

Expect some civil servant to be sacrificed by Arlene when she returns.  Only thing saving them at the minute is the fear that a sacked civil servant will highlight the incompetency of the departments at the highest levels and how poor the politicians are in post when they are expected to have managerial and leadership qualities that are well beyond most of them. 

The Strangford ferry debacle was obviously fed to the BBC to take the heat off the wood pellet scandal and put Infrastructure department under pressure as it can ultimately be blamed on Danny Kennedy and away from the SF-DUP axis.

Nolan really went to town on the SIF and DUP-SF leadership today with the help of the PSNI.  Managed to force a strong statement from the first ministers on a day when both were absent from the Hill.  The type of statement that should have been issued on the first day instead of self and mutual protection that has characterised their reactions to date.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Walt Jabsco on December 09, 2016, 09:10:48 PM
Probably find the PWC report of its visits to the hot sheds has become available.  Nolan appeared to know that the heat was also being pumped into residential properties beside the sheds.  Has the potential to do more damage to DUP than NAMA as cronyism and corruption in relation to heating resounds much more to most people as they fear the cost of heating their own homes as we head into the long winter months.

Expect some civil servant to be sacrificed by Arlene when she returns.  Only thing saving them at the minute is the fear that a sacked civil servant will highlight the incompetency of the departments at the highest levels and how poor the politicians are in post when they are expected to have managerial and leadership qualities that are well beyond most of them. 

The Strangford ferry debacle was obviously fed to the BBC to take the heat off the wood pellet scandal and put Infrastructure department under pressure as it can ultimately be blamed on Danny Kennedy and away from the SF-DUP axis.

Nolan really went to town on the SIF and DUP-SF leadership today with the help of the PSNI.  Managed to force a strong statement from the first ministers on a day when both were absent from the Hill.  The type of statement that should have been issued on the first day instead of self and mutual protection that has characterised their reactions to date.

As much as I would like to believe that the DUPs were trying to deflect from their own woes The reporter lives in the locality and would know some of the interviewees on his piece well and this I believe is where the story was generated from
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on December 09, 2016, 09:14:40 PM
Timing is everything.  The ferry mess has been known to those involved for some time and now centres on a row between the Executive and the manufacturer with both claiming to be right.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on December 10, 2016, 10:38:34 PM
http://www.irishnews.com/news/2016/12/10/news/dup-special-adviser-s-brother-is-among-rhi-claimants-828483/ (http://www.irishnews.com/news/2016/12/10/news/dup-special-adviser-s-brother-is-among-rhi-claimants-828483/)
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: StGallsGAA on December 11, 2016, 07:06:27 PM
So Arlene's team heard the whistleblowers opinion on how the scheme was wide open for abuse and rather than close the scheme the DUP got their noses into the trough?  Public Inquiry surely to identify the names of those who signed up AFTER the scam was exposed.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: muppet on December 11, 2016, 07:12:34 PM
http://www.irishnews.com/news/2016/12/10/news/dup-special-adviser-s-brother-is-among-rhi-claimants-828483/ (http://www.irishnews.com/news/2016/12/10/news/dup-special-adviser-s-brother-is-among-rhi-claimants-828483/)

In England or Scotland, there would be immediate resignations.

In the 26, there might be a single resignation after a period of media pressure.

In the wee 6, a deal will be done between DUP and SF, and life will go on as normal, nothing to see here.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 11, 2016, 07:19:27 PM
http://www.irishnews.com/news/2016/12/10/news/dup-special-adviser-s-brother-is-among-rhi-claimants-828483/ (http://www.irishnews.com/news/2016/12/10/news/dup-special-adviser-s-brother-is-among-rhi-claimants-828483/)

In England or Scotland, there would be immediate resignations.

In the 26, there might be a single resignation after a period of media pressure.

In the wee 6, a deal will be done between DUP and SF, and life will go on as normal, nothing to see here.
No politicians of any importance will go. A couple of civil servants will no doubt get reassigned to another post on full pay. The Shinners won't rock the boat as they don't give a shit about the taxpayer.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on December 12, 2016, 09:47:00 AM
Hebron Free Presbyterian Church in Ballymoney is a beneficiary of RHI.  One of the church elders is Mervyn Storey MLA - a DUP minister in the previous Executive.

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/dup-mla-i-d-no-role-in-270k-church-rhi-boiler-1-7726011
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: MoChara on December 12, 2016, 10:01:45 AM
Hebron Free Presbyterian Church in Ballymoney is a beneficiary of RHI.  One of the church elders is Mervyn Storey MLA - a DUP minister in the previous Executive.

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/dup-mla-i-d-no-role-in-270k-church-rhi-boiler-1-7726011

This whole thing stinks, its a wonder they thought it would be got away with.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: muppet on December 12, 2016, 10:26:38 AM
Hebron Free Presbyterian Church in Ballymoney is a beneficiary of RHI.  One of the church elders is Mervyn Storey MLA - a DUP minister in the previous Executive.

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/dup-mla-i-d-no-role-in-270k-church-rhi-boiler-1-7726011

This whole thing stinks, its a wonder they thought it would be got away with.

Politics is all about leverage and deals.

If McGuinness and co agree to turn a blind eye in return for agreement on, for example, no border, then great. This might have been worth it.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Last Man on December 12, 2016, 10:28:51 AM
Are there many bio mass fuel suppliers to avail of? Balcas in Fermanagh must be a big player and stand fo do well out of all of this.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Dougal Maguire on December 12, 2016, 06:58:45 PM
Hebron Free Presbyterian Church in Ballymoney is a beneficiary of RHI.  One of the church elders is Mervyn Storey MLA - a DUP minister in the previous Executive.

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/dup-mla-i-d-no-role-in-270k-church-rhi-boiler-1-7726011

This whole thing stinks, its a wonder they thought it would be got away with.
What's the issue with that Church getting it if they met the eligibility criteria and aren't abusing the scheme
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on December 12, 2016, 08:15:48 PM
it will be also comfort to know that every Ferrari that pulls out of the showroom at Charles Hurst motors will have been stored at a cosy temperature. Courtesy of you know who? Yes, we the tax payer.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: stew on December 12, 2016, 08:38:21 PM
Arlene the bitter bitch needs roaded for this disaster!
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Dougal Maguire on December 12, 2016, 08:57:27 PM
it will be also comfort to know that every Ferrari that pulls out of the showroom at Charles Hurst motors will have been stored at a cosy temperature. Courtesy of you know who? Yes, we the tax payer.
Not good not good at all. Community groups and charitable organisations is one thing but that's ridiculous
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: BarryBreensBandage on December 12, 2016, 09:49:58 PM
Hebron Free Presbyterian Church in Ballymoney is a beneficiary of RHI.  One of the church elders is Mervyn Storey MLA - a DUP minister in the previous Executive.

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/dup-mla-i-d-no-role-in-270k-church-rhi-boiler-1-7726011

This whole thing stinks, its a wonder they thought it would be got away with.

Politics is all about leverage and deals.

If McGuinness and co agree to turn a blind eye in return for agreement on, for example, no border, then great. This might have been worth it.

That or else in the coming days we may find out it was a free for all and connections from both sides stuck the hand in. I can't believe Sinn Fein haven't gone for the jugular on this one, which makes me question why they aren't. Pearse Doherty and Mary Lou certainly would have if it had have been in the South.

The most worrying thing about it is, for all his bigotry and biased mentality, Jim Allister's comments on the folly of the power sharing in NI seems to be closer to the truth than expected.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: imtommygunn on December 12, 2016, 10:12:28 PM
They haven't went for the jugular on that red sky thing either. They rarely do.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: BarryBreensBandage on December 12, 2016, 10:15:34 PM
Fair point
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on December 13, 2016, 10:34:57 AM
A missed headline today in Irish News about SPAD: 

Fire and Brimstone 
http://www.irishnews.com/news/2016/12/13/news/dup-decline-to-explain-circumstances-surrounding-stephen-brimstone-s-application-to-renewable-heat-scheme-833575/ (http://www.irishnews.com/news/2016/12/13/news/dup-decline-to-explain-circumstances-surrounding-stephen-brimstone-s-application-to-renewable-heat-scheme-833575/)
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: screenexile on December 13, 2016, 11:38:11 AM
Nothing sticks with Politicians anymore!!

If Trump and UKIP can blunder their way through successful campaigns then surely why can't anyone survive a political scandal anymore??

The fact the Shinners are keeping so quiet about it makes me think they're up to their necks with members being a part of the RHI scheme as well!!
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on December 13, 2016, 12:08:04 PM
Nothing sticks with Politicians anymore!!

If Trump and UKIP can blunder their way through successful campaigns then surely why can't anyone survive a political scandal anymore??

The fact the Shinners are keeping so quiet about it makes me think they're up to their necks with members being a part of the RHI scheme as well!!

In N.Ireland, if there is a scheme to get money from the public purse it is part of the psyche to get in as quick a possible and for as much as possible.  It is the way we are, getting every subsidy that comes available.  I would venture to say that the nationalist community has the edge over their unionist cousins when it comes to this.  Their subservient attitude to the crown as its subjects still lingers.  So expect that both sides have mates who have the hottest chicken and sheds in the world and to hell with global warming as long as the money rolls in every month.

Check out the super happy faces on this site in Enniskillen: http://www.brites.eu (http://www.brites.eu)

BTW every business bought a boiler costing around £20K t0 £30K so the payback time will still be significant depending on how inefficient the boiler is:

Pellets:  £120 per tonne bulk
Subsidy: £192 per tonne
Profit:£72 per tonne burnt
Breakeven point: £25,000/£72 = 347 tonnes

Now it depends on the burn rate, anyone have a clue?  Solmatix (boiler sales) say 3/5 years.

Check out these happy faces at Warmflow:http://www.investni.com/news/lisburn-company-warmflow-engineering-praised-for-focus-on-r-d.html (http://www.investni.com/news/lisburn-company-warmflow-engineering-praised-for-focus-on-r-d.html)

Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on December 13, 2016, 12:10:25 PM
Any civil servant or minister can go to this site and see how the RHI scheme works:

http://www.solmatix.com/products/biomass-boilers/ (http://www.solmatix.com/products/biomass-boilers/)

With oil and gas prices in a state of flux, increasing numbers of businesses, farmers and home owners are looking for a secure, low cost way to heat their premises.  The answer is a Biomass Boiler from Solmatix.

Our wood pellet-burning Biomass Boilers offer a cost-effective way to massively reduce your heating bills.  The guaranteed grant income means that in real terms, you get FREE heat plus a significant financial reward.

Why it pays to go Biomass
Whether you are running a business, managing a farm or heating a home, there are three vital reasons why you should go Biomass:

The cost of Biomass fuel is considerably less volatile than oil or gas, and unlike these dwindling fossil fuels, wood pellets are a renewable energy with a secure supply
Our Biomass boilers operate up to 93% efficiency and can massively out-perform oil or gas (a typical non-condensing fossil boiler may only be 70% efficient).  So your biomass boiler delivers much more heat for every pound you spend on fuel
Under the Government’s NI Renewable Heat Incentive (NI RHI) scheme, you will receive regular grant payments when you install a biomass boiler generating renewable heat
Unlike oil, your Biomass boiler will pay for itself.   The combination of heating cost savings and guaranteed grant income means your boiler will soon cover its cost, typically in 3 to 5 years. And isn’t it good to know you’re using a sustainable fuel, with minimal impact on the environment!

Long-term fuel security
When it comes to fuel costs, one thing is certain.  Fossil fuel reserves are dwindling, so oil and gas prices will rise.  Of course, wood pellet costs will rise too, but viewed over the last 15 years, the cost of oil and gas has risen THREE TIMES HIGHER than wood pellets.

What is more, by taking out a fixed term (i.e.20 years) biomass fuel contract, you can future-proof your fuel costs in line with inflation and your RHI grant income.

Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 13, 2016, 01:29:42 PM
Does anyone really think anything will happen lol. Arlene is safe and if anything this kind of nonsense just cements Unionism because come election time the sheep will still vote for the donkey with the Union Jack no matter what meanwhile nationalists continue to disengage from politics as SF do nothing the option is either dont vote or protest by giving PBP a vote. DUP playing a blinder as usual. SF nowhere to be seen with their only plan being we will eventually out breed them collapsing because of apathy and boredom
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on December 13, 2016, 02:39:35 PM
Another clear example of why Stormont should be shut down. It's just one scandal after another with us, the taxpayers
footing the bill. And in many cases, voting for those at the heart of the scandals !!

There is no doubt in my mind that people "in the know" got in quick in the final weeks knowing that the scheme was
going to end, and therefore securing themselves a handsome reward for the next 20 years. Rest assured, we have many
names going to come out in the coming days and weeks, and we will be able to put two and two together.

This scheme was doomed to failure the day they left out the crucial cap on payments. Considering the amount of highly
paid people who would have gone over this legislation, and elected reps, the big question is how did anyone not spot it earlier?
Or was it spotted and left out on purpose?

How is it that with all the elected MLA's up on the hill it is down to Stephen Nolan to stand up and not only expose it,
but ask the questions that need asked. questions that none of the MLA's barring Jim Allister have the courage to ask.

Time and again Nolan has exposed failures and c**k ups in Stormont, and has gone to town on those involved.
He has loads more information to publish, and he spoke today of a man who has 12 boilers in one shed.
12 in one shed...........

I just hope someone leaks the full list of those who availed of the scheme, and in particular, those who got in
during the final 10 weeks. ........

Sinn Fein are very weak on this, and on many other things. They did a deal with the DUP before the last election to become
partners, and they are giving the DUP cover time and again on too many crucial issues. They were elected to serve the people, not the DUP as is now the case. The Charter NI episode is another example of them backing the DUP, and in effect, the UDA.


If this was a decision by a Fine Gael minister in the 26, you can be rest assured that Mary Lou and Pearse Doherty
would be screaming from the rafters and calling for resignations all over the shop.

Arlene isn't going to stand down, because both her party and Sinn Fein won't allow it to happen. They each have too much
on each other for SF to call for her to go, or collapse Stormont. They are making way too much money from it, and collapsing
it wouldn't go down too well with those at the trough.

Looking ahead, this scheme needs a radical overhaul, and independent specialists need to visit a lot of sites very quickly
and ascertain who is genuine, and future payments need to be re negotiated. The current legislation needs overhauled.

Sadly, they will all get re elected. such is the pathetic state of political affairs here.

Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: 5 Sams on December 13, 2016, 03:28:20 PM
Don't normally listen to him but Nolan on the radio in the morning is great crack these days...Flegory on this morning ranting and raving....rattled Nolan for a while and then Nesbitt came on and tied Flegory in knots...
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: uimhr ocht on December 13, 2016, 06:55:09 PM
IF  the shoe was on the other foot and it was a sinn fein minister responsible the dup wouldnt be long screaming resign,it happened i think a while back to conor murphy,utv ken reid gave arlene an easy interview,nolan is like a dog with a bone he wont let it go lol.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: TabClear on December 13, 2016, 07:25:23 PM
Don't normally listen to him but Nolan on the radio in the morning is great crack these days...Flegory on this morning ranting and raving....rattled Nolan for a while and then Nesbitt came on and tied Flegory in knots...

Gregory was a sketch this morning. He reminded me of Comical Ali from back in the day. Talking complete rubbish and trying the usual DUP trick of trying to shout over everyone else.  It would be funny if it wasn't for the fact that this p***k is an elected representative.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 13, 2016, 10:14:15 PM
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: orangeman on December 14, 2016, 12:42:21 AM
Don't normally listen to him but Nolan on the radio in the morning is great crack these days...Flegory on this morning ranting and raving....rattled Nolan for a while and then Nesbitt came on and tied Flegory in knots...

Gregory was a sketch this morning. He reminded me of Comical Ali from back in the day. Talking complete rubbish and trying the usual DUP trick of trying to shout over everyone else.  It would be funny if it wasn't for the fact that this p***k is an elected representative.


Stephen : are you finished yet Gregory .


Gregory in true bitter style replies : I haven't even started yet !


Nolan will have the last laugh.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: T Fearon on December 14, 2016, 06:30:08 AM
I see People Before Profit Loons are holding a "Foster Must Go....to the Christmas Market protest") at Belfast City Hall on Friday at 5.30pm. No chance of the Trots resigning their seats and foregoing their Stormont salaries and expenses in protest,though.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: JoG2 on December 14, 2016, 07:56:00 AM
I see People Before Profit Loons are holding a "Foster Must Go....to the Christmas Market protest") at Belfast City Hall on Friday at 5.30pm. No chance of the Trots resigning their seats and foregoing their Stormont salaries and expenses in protest,though.

Loons? Could their name be any more apt than right now ffs?it's your money these hoors are swindling.    Least they're doing something
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: T Fearon on December 14, 2016, 08:41:03 AM
And they have achieved precisely what apart from feeding Eamonn Mc Cann's ego? Let's see them resign and abandon their big Stormont salaries, in protest.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: GJL on December 14, 2016, 08:47:36 AM
And they have achieved precisely what apart from feeding Eamonn Mc Cann's ego? Let's see them resign and abandon their big Stormont salaries, in protest.


Do you think Foster should go?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on December 14, 2016, 09:30:53 AM
Nolan is on form today with some more hard hitting evidence, which leads to some serious questions.

They claim to have a source who claims Foster fought to keep the scheme open after knowing that it was going to cost millions.....

She would have gone by now if she were anywhere else, but in this neck of the woods, she will likely stay....

In my view, she has no credibility left, and on a wider angle, Stormont has no credibility either. Shut it down
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: JoG2 on December 14, 2016, 09:31:16 AM
And they have achieved precisely what apart from feeding Eamonn Mc Cann's ego? Let's see them resign and abandon their big Stormont salaries, in protest.

Dear jesus, where do you start with this? So you want them to just what, give up, roll over and take it, you know, the Irish way (but complain and girn non-stop about all and sundry)?  Or maybe try to change things from within? What about Arlene and her greedy ilk resigning instead of asking the politicians who've done buck all re the heat initiative resigning ?? That's some skewed thinking
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: JohnDenver on December 14, 2016, 09:55:19 AM
Nolan is on form today with some more hard hitting evidence, which leads to some serious questions.

They claim to have a source who claims Foster fought to keep the scheme open after knowing that it was going to cost millions.....

She would have gone by now if she were anywhere else, but in this neck of the woods, she will likely stay....

In my view, she has no credibility left, and on a wider angle, Stormont has no credibility either. Shut it down

What would your preferred alternative be, GHD - Direct Rule?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on December 14, 2016, 10:01:52 AM
Nolan is on form today with some more hard hitting evidence, which leads to some serious questions.

They claim to have a source who claims Foster fought to keep the scheme open after knowing that it was going to cost millions.....

She would have gone by now if she were anywhere else, but in this neck of the woods, she will likely stay....

In my view, she has no credibility left, and on a wider angle, Stormont has no credibility either. Shut it down

What would your preferred alternative be, GHD - Direct Rule?

Yes, it couldn't be much worse than what it is now....
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: trileacman on December 14, 2016, 10:21:08 AM
Nolan is on form today with some more hard hitting evidence, which leads to some serious questions.

They claim to have a source who claims Foster fought to keep the scheme open after knowing that it was going to cost millions.....

She would have gone by now if she were anywhere else, but in this neck of the woods, she will likely stay....

In my view, she has no credibility left, and on a wider angle, Stormont has no credibility either. Shut it down

What would your preferred alternative be, GHD - Direct Rule?

Yes, it couldn't be much worse than what it is now....

I agree couldn't be any worse.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: JohnDenver on December 14, 2016, 10:24:36 AM
Nolan is on form today with some more hard hitting evidence, which leads to some serious questions.

They claim to have a source who claims Foster fought to keep the scheme open after knowing that it was going to cost millions.....

She would have gone by now if she were anywhere else, but in this neck of the woods, she will likely stay....

In my view, she has no credibility left, and on a wider angle, Stormont has no credibility either. Shut it down

What would your preferred alternative be, GHD - Direct Rule?

Yes, it couldn't be much worse than what it is now....

I agree couldn't be any worse.

The Tory government is hardly bursting at the seems with credibility either.  If it was back to direct rule you would still be crying about something.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: haranguerer on December 14, 2016, 10:34:41 AM
As an aside, all this has been in the public domain for 2 years or so - its not a great indictment of the opposition or anyone else for that matter that it took a tv programme to draw attention to what is obviously a major f**k up.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Man Marker on December 14, 2016, 10:39:42 AM
Nolan is on form today with some more hard hitting evidence, which leads to some serious questions.

They claim to have a source who claims Foster fought to keep the scheme open after knowing that it was going to cost millions.....

She would have gone by now if she were anywhere else, but in this neck of the woods, she will likely stay....

In my view, she has no credibility left, and on a wider angle, Stormont has no credibility either. Shut it down

What would your preferred alternative be, GHD - Direct Rule?

Yes, it couldn't be much worse than what it is now....

Feck me you have one short memory. It could be a lot worse, by far. A direct rule minister my arse!
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on December 14, 2016, 10:45:32 AM
Nolan really hitting hard today on RHI.

SF still propping up their senior partners in government and not calling for heads to roll.  Conor Murphy rolled out to defend them but his excuse was he didn't know much because he had been out of the assembly for 3 years.  SF really coming out of this debacle with no credit.  Opposition really going to town on the governing partners.  Nolan had Allister, Nesbitt and Eastwood driving home all of the information they had gathered, Murphy could only manage a few platitudes. Unbelievable. Whole episode has raised the opposition parties to a level not previously earned by their performances.  They have a lot to thank Nolan for, he is providing a platform for them and the ammunition to fire at DUP/SF.

SF had the possibility of taking the high ground by giving example of D Mackay resigning from his prominent position only under suspicion of wrongdoing and should be pushing for Arlene, J Bell and their SPADs to go now or at least stand down until a full investigation is carried to its conclusion.  They have failed to take this opportunity.  What has the DUP got over SF?

OFMDFM will be sorry they took Nolan's editor from behind his back.  He has given it to them hot and heavy on RHI and Charter NI.

Nolan now has evidence that there was pressure on civil servants to keep scheme open from OFMDFM and DUP and this was before the spike in applications that broke the bank. Emails have been unearthed to show what was happening.

Also being raised that the subsidy breaks EU rules on state subsidy of business/industry which will involve fines on Executive which we will have to pay. 

Nolan has promised further stories tomorrow morning and it looks like Jonathan Bell will be his target.

Also Nolan has obtained the draft of the PWC audit of installation which showed that on 47% were legitimate uses of the scheme and the remainder were put in place to draw down the subsidy by burning pellets.  Civil service had carried out 12 audits of scheme and it failed on 11 of them. Example given of one shed with twelve boilers and boiler sales/manufacturers giving the boilers/burners for free to successful applicants.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: winghalfun on December 14, 2016, 11:58:20 AM
The thing about Stephen Nolan is that he genuinely does not need the politicians to further/preserve his career and he can expose what he wants.

On this story he had brought in people from the so called more creditable wing of BBC journalism, namely Chris Butler and Mark Davenport.

Either himself and his team want this to be taken seriously or the BBC itself.

I didn't realise how much of a puppet Davenport was until I heard him this morning.  Boy did he not want to be there.  Despite all the evidence he was so sheepish in his contribution it was funny. 

It was as if he was been made to grass up his mates.

Anyway, as Dixie rightly says, nothing will happen and things will go on as normal.  This place really does stink at the moment and I am now beginning to realise that I am part of the problem by supporting the tribal politics system that allows it to fester.

No more.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Rossfan on December 14, 2016, 12:11:58 PM
And yet Shinners and their fans will go on as nauseam lecturing us lit in the 26 Cos about corruption etc ::)
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AhNowRef on December 14, 2016, 12:29:45 PM
And yet Shinners and their fans will go on as nauseam lecturing us lit in the 26 Cos about corruption etc ::)

To be fair to SF they havent been accused of anything other than adhering to the "new deal" a bit too much .... i.e. there's no evidence of any wrongdoing here on their part (yet at least)..

You would wonder though why they seem to be sitting meekly by as this and many other things unfold...

Imagine the complete hysteria if SF had been the main culprits in the following:-

Red Sky ... Swap Nelson McCausland for any shinner
NAMA .....with P Robinson now actually working for a NAMA contractor ... ::) ffs
Charter NI ... had they been Republicans..
Petitions of concern .. against "anything" they dont like
RHI .... If a shinner (or SDLP) had been Minister there would be absolute pandemonium by now ...
Etc...

The DUP in particular would be going to town on them ... what the feck is up ?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: trueblue1234 on December 14, 2016, 12:40:18 PM
And yet Shinners and their fans will go on as nauseam lecturing us lit in the 26 Cos about corruption etc ::)

Rightly so, Corruption should be highlighted wherever it happens. People in the north and south are too quick to feel like any negative comment by someone from the other jurisdiction is a personal attack on them and they get all defensive. The whole lot of them are cowboys.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Rossfan on December 14, 2016, 01:16:46 PM
But not a peep out of any Shinners or Shinnerbots about  the DUP corruption.
Hypocrisy and double standards in abundance.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on December 14, 2016, 01:21:28 PM
The list of recipient's would be an interesting read.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: trueblue1234 on December 14, 2016, 01:27:46 PM
But not a peep out of any Shinners or Shinnerbots about  the DUP corruption.
Hypocrisy and double standards in abundance.

There you go again. There's a 5 page thread here. I'd assume some of these posters voted SF. Would you like them to clarify their political allegiances prior to posting? Your constantly at this sh!te. 
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Denn Forever on December 14, 2016, 01:31:51 PM
But not a peep out of any Shinners or Shinnerbots about  the DUP corruption.
Hypocrisy and double standards in abundance.

Can you imagine the stuck it to the DUP?  The the Government would colapse and it would be back to Direct Rule.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on December 14, 2016, 01:57:56 PM
I supported the GFA and SF coming into government but the whole shebang is an omnishambles being operated by fuckwits.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: oisinog on December 14, 2016, 01:58:50 PM
The list of recipient's would be an interesting read.

Personaly speaking I think this is what the Shinners are waiting for. They will have a list in hand of who had availed of the scheme that this is going to be killing blow
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Franko on December 14, 2016, 02:00:59 PM
The list of recipient's would be an interesting read.

Personaly speaking I think this is what the Shinners are waiting for. They will have a list in hand of who had availed of the scheme that this is going to be killing blow

I reckon this (and 'the deal') are the main reason SF are NOT speaking out.  I guarantee that the list has as many connections of SF on it as it does of the DUP.  If the list comes out it will embarrass everyone.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on December 14, 2016, 02:02:26 PM
The list of recipient's would be an interesting read.

Personaly speaking I think this is what the Shinners are waiting for. They will have a list in hand of who had availed of the scheme that this is going to be killing blow

Maybe but I wouldn't imagine this was a scheme soley for Unionists.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: haranguerer on December 14, 2016, 02:08:03 PM
The list of recipient's would be an interesting read.

Personaly speaking I think this is what the Shinners are waiting for. They will have a list in hand of who had availed of the scheme that this is going to be killing blow

I reckon this (and 'the deal') are the main reason SF are NOT speaking out.  I guarantee that the list has as many connections of SF on it as it does of the DUP.  If the list comes out it will embarrass everyone.

If it embarrasses everyone then it embarrasses no-one.

How does attacking their partners in government benefit Sinn Fein? Forget the conspiracy theories, to come out with both barrels just doesn't make a lot of sense. Are DUP voters more or less likely to vote for them because SF are attacking them? I've no doubt SF are trying to see how best to take advantage, but they're selling this partnership too.

 
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Franko on December 14, 2016, 02:15:08 PM
The list of recipient's would be an interesting read.

Personaly speaking I think this is what the Shinners are waiting for. They will have a list in hand of who had availed of the scheme that this is going to be killing blow

I reckon this (and 'the deal') are the main reason SF are NOT speaking out.  I guarantee that the list has as many connections of SF on it as it does of the DUP.  If the list comes out it will embarrass everyone.

If it embarrasses everyone then it embarrasses no-one.

How does attacking their partners in government benefit Sinn Fein? Forget the conspiracy theories, to come out with both barrels just doesn't make a lot of sense. Are DUP voters more or less likely to vote for them because SF are attacking them?

To be honest, yes.  At the very least they should be helping Nesbitt as much as possible in the hope that a strong UUP splits the DUP vote.  Although in fairness, the DUP's bible belt voters tend to be very blasé about financial corruption*.  I haven't met a "good living" fella yet who wouldn't shaft you for a fiver.

*Acknowledge the sweeping generalisation, all evidence of this is anecdotal.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: haranguerer on December 14, 2016, 02:21:39 PM
Added a bit you mightn't have seen - no doubt they're looking to see how to take advantage, but SF are selling this partnership too. I'm sure pressure will be exerted in less obvious ways
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AhNowRef on December 14, 2016, 02:37:53 PM
Jeez, the DUPers sycophantly singing "Arlene's on fire" is a bit ironic now  ::)
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on December 14, 2016, 03:03:09 PM
Not sure what the Shinners are playing at here. What have the DUP on them that is stopping them asking the hard questions that should be asked. This is part of their job and they have an obligation not only to their electorate but to everyone to be demanding answers to this.

Then if you bring the CharterNI thing into the mix why are they not putting any pressure on the DUP over this. It was only last year the DUP walked out of the executive regarding the shootings of Kevin McGuigan and Jock Davison by the IRA but yet they seem to be able to look past the Chief Constable linking an active member of the UDA to CharterNI never mind it's dubious CEO. Coincidentally it was around this time of the DUP hokey cokey the RHI scheme got completely out of control.

If it wasn't such as f**k you to the electorate and a serious c**k up from start to finish managed by inept politicians who couldn't organise a pi$$ up in a brewery it'd be funny. But as we all know nothing will change.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on December 14, 2016, 03:10:00 PM
Arlene in Sept 2015:

"If anybody knows me and indeed knows the Democratic Unionist Party they know that I'm not going to put at risk to the people of Northern Ireland the possibility that rogue Sinn Féin or renegade SDLP ministers are going to take decisions that will harm the community in Northern Ireland."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-34216421

Also, it looks like they could be lining up Jonathan Bell as the sacrificial lamb.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Rossfan on December 14, 2016, 04:18:38 PM
But not a peep out of any Shinners or Shinnerbots about  the DUP corruption.
Hypocrisy and double standards in abundance.

There you go again. ....... Your constantly at this sh!te.
I know. Pointing out bad things about Sinn Féin.
Disgraceful of me ;D
Where's Bomber and his ten pages when ye need him?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: ha ha derry on December 14, 2016, 07:03:51 PM
If the rumours are right this will seriously damage the DUP in a big way. Allegedly some VERY high ranking members and family have availed.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Rois on December 14, 2016, 07:20:15 PM
Although in fairness, the DUP's bible belt voters tend to be very blasé about financial corruption*.  I haven't met a "good living" fella yet who wouldn't shaft you for a fiver.

*Acknowledge the sweeping generalisation, all evidence of this is anecdotal.

This.  Half their voters won't even watch/read the news to hear about this, and the other half won't mind very much other than be jealous that they didn't share in it.

*Same sweeping generalisations made
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: imtommygunn on December 14, 2016, 07:26:29 PM
You read things like - imagine this had happened at election time. It wouldn't matter a jot.

Be interesting to see what happens with this vote of no confidence. Be very interesting to see how sinn fein vote.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: trueblue1234 on December 14, 2016, 08:27:22 PM
But not a peep out of any Shinners or Shinnerbots about  the DUP corruption.
Hypocrisy and double standards in abundance.

There you go again. ....... Your constantly at this sh!te.
I know. Pointing out bad things about Sinn Féin.
Disgraceful of me ;D
Where's Bomber and his ten pages when ye need him?
There's a thread for that. Try and keep your sh!te to the relevant thread instead of pulling every thread in the same direction and trying to start this SF "shinnerbot" childish sh!te.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on December 14, 2016, 08:58:02 PM
What would the fallout from this be if it was in Westminster or the Dáil. And would this not be national news. Haven't heard a word outside of NI news about this.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: T Fearon on December 14, 2016, 09:40:52 PM
That's because as far as the Free State is concerned,the North is a foreign country.How many times do I have to say this
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 14, 2016, 09:43:16 PM
And they have achieved precisely what apart from feeding Eamonn Mc Cann's ego? Let's see them resign and abandon their big Stormont salaries, in protest.


Do you think Foster should go?

Of course not - he wouldn't be able to get any more pictures with her to post on his Facebook  ::)
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: T Fearon on December 14, 2016, 09:45:08 PM
I think the whole bloody lot of them should go,including SF and SDLP
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Rossfan on December 14, 2016, 09:50:14 PM
But not a peep out of any Shinners or Shinnerbots about  the DUP corruption.
Hypocrisy and double standards in abundance.

There you go again. ....... Your constantly at this sh!te.
I know. Pointing out bad things about Sinn Féin.
Disgraceful of me ;D
Where's Bomber and his ten pages when ye need him?
There's a thread for that. Try and keep your sh!te to the relevant thread instead of pulling every thread in the same direction and trying to start this SF "shinnerbot" childish sh!te.

Sinn Féin's partner in Government up to their eyes in corruption. Very apt to comment in this thread.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: trueblue1234 on December 14, 2016, 09:58:15 PM
You seem more inclined to post about SF rather than the DUP as per usual.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: longballin on December 14, 2016, 10:44:33 PM
SF have been useless during this. Barely a peep out of them.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: T Fearon on December 14, 2016, 11:24:30 PM
Stormont is a cosy little club.It serves career politicians not the people.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: macdanger2 on December 15, 2016, 01:04:10 AM
What would the fallout from this be if it was in Westminster or the Dáil. And would this not be national news. Haven't heard a word outside of NI news about this.

RTE have been reporting on it

Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: LeoMc on December 15, 2016, 09:11:34 AM
Arlene in Sept 2015:

"If anybody knows me and indeed knows the Democratic Unionist Party they know that I'm not going to put at risk to the people of Northern Ireland the possibility that rogue Sinn Féin or renegade SDLP ministers are going to take decisions that will harm the community in Northern Ireland."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-34216421

Also, it looks like they could be lining up Jonathan Bell as the sacrificial lamb.
I would say she will Dee Stitt all over him to save herself.

EDIT: sounds like Bell has figured that out for himself and I'd going to take a few down with him. Career ending interview on Spotlight tonight.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on December 15, 2016, 09:15:57 AM
You read things like - imagine this had happened at election time. It wouldn't matter a jot.

Be interesting to see what happens with this vote of no confidence. Be very interesting to see how sinn fein vote.

The Shinners have somewhat painted themselves into a corner here.  They're stuck with the Assembly...if they walk away or collapse it then power sharing and peace haven't worked and into the vacuum step the dissies.  Maybe as a result of the law of unintended consequences they now have to cover Arlene's arse on RHI, cover her arse on Dee Stitt, Charter NI and SIF, cover the DUPs arse on NAMA and perhaps most bizarrely get into bed and conspire with a loyalist flegger.

My view is that if the DUP can carry the day without SF votes then they'll abstain with the DUPs agreement as will yer woman Sugden as well.  Can there be a PoC in a vote of no confidence??

I actually agree with Rossfan on one thing and I've been saying it for 25 years - the North is as/more corrupt than the South.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on December 15, 2016, 09:41:29 AM
Arlene in Sept 2015:

"If anybody knows me and indeed knows the Democratic Unionist Party they know that I'm not going to put at risk to the people of Northern Ireland the possibility that rogue Sinn Féin or renegade SDLP ministers are going to take decisions that will harm the community in Northern Ireland."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-34216421

Also, it looks like they could be lining up Jonathan Bell as the sacrificial lamb.
I would say she will Dee Stitt all over him to save herself.

EDIT: sounds like Bell has figured that out for himself and I'd going to take a few down with him. Career ending interview on Spotlight tonight.

Or is he going to take all the blame to save Arlene...

Special Nolan Show on BBC at 10:40pm tonight -

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/dups-jonathan-bell-ill-tell-the-truth-over-rhi-scandal-and-it-will-ruin-my-career-35296376.html

Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on December 15, 2016, 01:01:43 PM
If a vote of no confidence is taken on Arlene on Monday then SF will either abstain or vote in support according to the interview by Seamus McKee with Martin O'Muilleoir on Radio Ulster yesterday. 

SF will pathetically say that the vote of no confidence is politicking by others.  They have an open goal and are refusing to even kick the ball when it should be driven into the net with Foster and Bell hanging on to it.

Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: angermanagement on December 15, 2016, 01:06:09 PM
Hebron Free Presbyterian Church in Ballymoney is a beneficiary of RHI.  One of the church elders is Mervyn Storey MLA - a DUP minister in the previous Executive.

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/dup-mla-i-d-no-role-in-270k-church-rhi-boiler-1-7726011

This whole thing stinks, its a wonder they thought it would be got away with.
What's the issue with that Church getting it if they met the eligibility criteria and aren't abusing the scheme

So it turns out the minister was also getting his home heated by the scheme. Hopefully the whole list of those who benefited gets leaked.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Hereiam on December 15, 2016, 01:20:38 PM
I don't think the list of all the people who applied for this should be release but only the ones who abused it. Surly a department can sit down and look at what has been paid out so far to each applicant and see which ones were using far more than what was required.
People should realise that leisure centers, hospitals, schools etc got these boilers under this scheme, are there any councils who were defrauding this scheme and if they were where has the money they made been spent.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Orior on December 15, 2016, 01:44:58 PM
Arlene in Sept 2015:

"If anybody knows me and indeed knows the Democratic Unionist Party they know that I'm not going to put at risk to the people of Northern Ireland the possibility that rogue Sinn Féin or renegade SDLP ministers are going to take decisions that will harm the community in Northern Ireland."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-34216421

Also, it looks like they could be lining up Jonathan Bell as the sacrificial lamb.
I would say she will Dee Stitt all over him to save herself.

EDIT: sounds like Bell has figured that out for himself and I'd going to take a few down with him. Career ending interview on Spotlight tonight.

Or is he going to take all the blame to save Arlene...

Special Nolan Show on BBC at 10:40pm tonight -

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/dups-jonathan-bell-ill-tell-the-truth-over-rhi-scandal-and-it-will-ruin-my-career-35296376.html

Cleverly played by the BBC so as to maximise the viewing figures. If it such as earth shattering revelation should they not have released it in the news as soon as it was verified?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: rory on December 15, 2016, 02:18:03 PM
So it turns out the minister was also getting his home heated by the scheme. Hopefully the whole list of those who benefited gets leaked.

Where are the Russians when you need them?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: JoG2 on December 15, 2016, 02:21:55 PM
Was out and about today and got to listen to Nolan and William whatshisface on Radio Ulster. Couple of things I picked up, the pac has a total of 11 shinners and dups (majority), and the thinking is they'll close ranks. It's a different story of course if there's a public inquiry.

Instead of acting the leader and taking the heat, Foster is blaming all 'n sundry within her (then) department...spineless behaviour

If  Foster survives this, it sends out a message that they're untouchable, and with the DUP disclosing of enough details as to find out who the whistle-blower is (she has already been identified), it send out a message to any future whistle-blowers not to fcuk with the hill. All in all, a complete and utter clusterfcuk (the norm in this part of the world)
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: imtommygunn on December 15, 2016, 02:24:48 PM
We need to get the assembly to ban the russians from something important.

Leak a headline like "Foster bans Putin from Belfast" or something...

A vote of no confidence becomes very interesting. If no confidence wins then a petition of concern will no doubt be pulled however of particular interest would be how sinn fein vote.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: gallsman on December 15, 2016, 02:50:48 PM
Given what Robinson survived and continues to escape from, I'll not be holding my breath waiting for Arlene to fall.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: johnneycool on December 15, 2016, 02:51:15 PM
Arlene in Sept 2015:

"If anybody knows me and indeed knows the Democratic Unionist Party they know that I'm not going to put at risk to the people of Northern Ireland the possibility that rogue Sinn Féin or renegade SDLP ministers are going to take decisions that will harm the community in Northern Ireland."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-34216421

Also, it looks like they could be lining up Jonathan Bell as the sacrificial lamb.
I would say she will Dee Stitt all over him to save herself.

EDIT: sounds like Bell has figured that out for himself and I'd going to take a few down with him. Career ending interview on Spotlight tonight.

Or is he going to take all the blame to save Arlene...

Special Nolan Show on BBC at 10:40pm tonight -

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/dups-jonathan-bell-ill-tell-the-truth-over-rhi-scandal-and-it-will-ruin-my-career-35296376.html

Gods told him to tell the truth...

Good stuff Jonny, Newtownards finest.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: JoG2 on December 15, 2016, 02:55:41 PM
Arlene in Sept 2015:

"If anybody knows me and indeed knows the Democratic Unionist Party they know that I'm not going to put at risk to the people of Northern Ireland the possibility that rogue Sinn Féin or renegade SDLP ministers are going to take decisions that will harm the community in Northern Ireland."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-34216421

Also, it looks like they could be lining up Jonathan Bell as the sacrificial lamb.
I would say she will Dee Stitt all over him to save herself.

EDIT: sounds like Bell has figured that out for himself and I'd going to take a few down with him. Career ending interview on Spotlight tonight.

Or is he going to take all the blame to save Arlene...

Special Nolan Show on BBC at 10:40pm tonight -

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/dups-jonathan-bell-ill-tell-the-truth-over-rhi-scandal-and-it-will-ruin-my-career-35296376.html

Gods told him to tell the truth...

Good stuff Jonny, Newtownards finest.

have ye ever heard the like of it! A caller wondered would Bell's god not have mentioned nama, red sky, charter ni et etc while he was at it !
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: angermanagement on December 15, 2016, 03:12:00 PM
If Arlene does get the boot who is the next in line to be leader of the DUP? Nigel, Sammy or God forbid Gregory.

Is Arlene the best of a band bunch?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: JoG2 on December 15, 2016, 03:47:42 PM
If Arlene does get the boot who is the next in line to be leader of the DUP? Nigel, Sammy or God forbid Gregory.

Is Arlene the best of a band bunch?

There is not a hope of Gregory Campbell putting his name forward,  far far too cozy a number now and until retirement
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: sensethetone on December 15, 2016, 04:03:13 PM
I think J Bell will take one for the team to save Arlene, can't see him letting her down.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Smokin Joe on December 15, 2016, 06:10:39 PM
The danger of misaligned KPIs in action:

Quote
Commenting on his decision the Minister said: ‘It is with great reluctance that I have had to announce my intention to close both RHI schemes. Both schemes have been very successful with the non domestic scheme in particular seeing significant uptake during the last 12 months and more so in the run up to the recent scheme changes introduced in November 2015. It is estimated that around 6% of NI’s heating needs are now provided through renewable technologies. The Executive’s target to achieve 4% renewable heat has been exceeded.

“However, this increased demand means the available budget for new applications has been exhausted. To meet RHI commitments for existing installations, significant levels of additional funding will have to be found from within the NI Executive’s budget for the next five years to address the current deficit. To prevent further overspend I must bring forward legislation to the Assembly to close both schemes to new applications.

“My Department will also be carrying out a comprehensive review and audit, to ensure that the operation of the schemes is strictly in compliance with the scheme requirements and the underpinning legislation.”
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 15, 2016, 06:41:41 PM
BBC newsline just showing how dumb f#ck tbe general population is here. Despite everything the blind sheep reckon some civil servants shoukd get sacked but not our Arlene who is doing a grest job FFS there is no hope for us. At what point do bone idle lazy nationalists bother to vote to get rid of the laughable DUP
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: muppet on December 15, 2016, 07:12:42 PM
Some comparison.....

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1215/839210-fianna-fail-senator/ (http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1215/839210-fianna-fail-senator/)

Mr Ó Domhnaill submitted claims to both Donegal County Council and Údarás na Gaeltachta for the same dates on three occasions in 2006.

In March 2006, Mr Ó Domhnaill travelled from his home in Falcarragh to Dundalk for a three-day conference but returned to Letterkenny on the second day for a meeting of the Donegal Sports Partnership, at which he represented Údáras na Gaeltachta.

He claimed almost €642 from Donegal County Council and just under €93 from Údáras.

In April 2006, he travelled to Carrickmacross for a two-day training seminar, returning to Letterkenny on the second day for another Donegal Sports Partnership meeting.

He claimed almost €500 from the Council and almost €77 from Údáras.

In May 2006, he travelled to a two-day tourism conference in Carlingford, Co Louth but left for a Donegal Sports Partnership event in Dungloe on the second day.

He claimed over €680 from the Council and just over €83 euro from Údáras.

Following an inquiry, SIPO found "that each contravention was committed intentionally and was, in all the circumstances, a serious matter."


Thus he was forced to resign over the claiming of €253 from the Údarás. Proper order too, but the money is nothing of the scale of what went on with the RHI.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: red hander on December 15, 2016, 09:29:45 PM
SF have been useless during this. Barely a peep out of them.

+1. Absolute disgrace.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: gallsman on December 15, 2016, 10:51:11 PM
f**k this is rare to watch. Bell and what I presume is his pastor or similar praying away at the start. If he was a Muslim the Daily Mail and the like would be going mental.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: trileacman on December 15, 2016, 10:58:04 PM
Strange enough interview but I do think he has put a fire under Arlenes ass. Funny move, keeping you mouth shut and towing the party line is usually the better paid alternative.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: trileacman on December 15, 2016, 11:00:08 PM
Praying, quoting paisley, he's playing this by the DUP playbook.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 15, 2016, 11:02:26 PM
Strange enough interview but I do think he has put a fire under Arlenes ass. Funny move, keeping you mouth shut and towing the party line is usually the better paid alternative.

Fair play to him this is no taking a hit for the team he is namimg and shaming why would he do it if it isnt true. Cant wait to see Arlenes full quota of face pulls and eye rolls. Sh1t needs to hit the fan and it couldnt happen to a nicer fella sorry lass.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: gallsman on December 15, 2016, 11:05:32 PM
Yup he's fairly throwing her under the bus and Nolan is joining the dots anywhere he doesn't expressly implicate her.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on December 15, 2016, 11:06:39 PM
The opening prayer whole scene was Alan Partridge'esque'.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: gallsman on December 15, 2016, 11:17:51 PM
Fair play to Nolan again here, he's pinning Arlene down (ooh matron).

If she doesn't fall for this, there really is no hope for Stormont whatsoever.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: stiffler on December 15, 2016, 11:20:34 PM
Arlene doing some back tracking here !
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: ashman on December 15, 2016, 11:21:10 PM
Can someone give us Mexicans an executive summary . Ye must remember we are not used to this kind of thing !!
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: snoopdog on December 15, 2016, 11:24:00 PM
The DUP get away with everything. Of course she will get away with it. Sammy Wilson can be racist sexist and sectarian and nothing ever happens.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: stiffler on December 15, 2016, 11:24:27 PM
Can someone give us Mexicans an executive summary . Ye must remember we are not used to this kind of thing !!

Appropriate username
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on December 15, 2016, 11:26:05 PM
Her pauses and blinking are becoming more lengthy. Ultimately we are morons being run by morons in a moron state.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: gallsman on December 15, 2016, 11:27:19 PM
Can someone give us Mexicans an executive summary . Ye must remember we are not used to this kind of thing !!

A flawed renewable energy subsidy scheme that was known to massively cost the exchequer was (allegedly) kept open at the insistence of the DUP First Minister after the flaws of the scheme became known to the DUP minister of the relevant department.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: gallsman on December 15, 2016, 11:27:40 PM
Smear smear smear.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: armaghniac on December 15, 2016, 11:28:57 PM
Bell is a threat to women, it seems. An aggressive individual, apparently.
"No surrender" from Arlene.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: hardstation on December 15, 2016, 11:32:01 PM
Arlene went for a character assassination. She should step down for saying "He had went..." ffs.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: trileacman on December 15, 2016, 11:32:23 PM
Not enough to unseat her. The paper trail has to be found d if they haven't already had it destroyed.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 15, 2016, 11:35:20 PM
So Arlene is basically saying jonathan bell behind the scenes is the agresdive type i mean lol has Arlene ever not come across manic. Everytime she us on tv she acts the petulant brat so its not difficult to see who is telling the truth
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 15, 2016, 11:39:13 PM
Arlene went for a character assassination. She should step down for saying "He had went..." ffs.

QUB law degrees must be given away these days. Nothing would please me more than to see Arlene humiliated over this the nasty piece of work
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: gallsman on December 15, 2016, 11:40:53 PM
Jonathan Bell using his physical bulk to loom over Arlene is an image nobody wants.

Forget all about the RHI, Arlene's story about the meeting with Bell is utterly daft. Party leader and First Minister was intimidated by the big scary man. Some f**king leadership.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Hereiam on December 15, 2016, 11:42:47 PM
She really is a nasty piece of work.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: hardstation on December 15, 2016, 11:44:19 PM
Arlene went for a character assassination. She should step down for saying "He had went..." ffs.

QUB law degrees must be given away these days. Nothing would please me more than to see Arlene humiliated over this the nasty piece of work
To be fair, I don't think we can consider Arlene's graduation from QUB as "these days".

Anyway, she's a beg. For balance, so is Bell.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Rois on December 15, 2016, 11:47:19 PM
Jonathan Bell using his physical bulk to loom over Arlene is an image nobody wants.

Forget all about the RHI, Arlene's story about the meeting with Bell is utterly daft. Party leader and First Minister was intimidated by the big scary man. Some f**king leadership.
And yet said she didn't know what he was so angry about???
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: under the bar on December 15, 2016, 11:48:48 PM
She'll brazen it out undoubtedly given that lying bitch performance.  She may step aside briefly like Robinson did but if he can survive Nama and that wife charade then she'll get through this.  Queue some display of Keeping the Union safe over the coming weeks.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on December 15, 2016, 11:50:35 PM
Some very serious allegations made by Bell tonight. One of them is telling the truth and I doubt very much it's Arlene.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: gallsman on December 15, 2016, 11:51:01 PM
The only way she can ride it out is if SF refuse to move against her. Which they won't. Question is why not?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: theskull1 on December 15, 2016, 11:53:41 PM
Any known reasons why SF should be as quiet as they have been?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: yellowcard on December 15, 2016, 11:59:51 PM
That was fascinating tv. I must say I laughed when I heard Arlene say that she felt intimidated by Bell. whether she rides this out depends on SF and whether they back Foster or Bell. I think most people know who is telling the truth but I imagine that Bell will be castigated and attacked from all angles within the DUP to reduce his credibility to try and save Fosters skin.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: stew on December 16, 2016, 12:03:13 AM
Any known reasons why SF should be as quiet as they have been?

Yes, they have been bought and paid for with the queens shilling!

The shinners are more British than Finchley these days, they have no moral compass and they are political bedfellows with that kn**ker Arlene Forster and her corrupt, hate filled party.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Hereiam on December 16, 2016, 12:04:09 AM
I doubt SF have signed up to some clause that the opposition parties are only allowed to speak out
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on December 16, 2016, 12:08:43 AM
I doubt SF have signed up to some clause that the opposition parties are only allowed to speak out

Didn't stop the DUP threatening to pull down the whole farce on the hill with their in out ministers. Appears to me the DUP can do whatever the f**k they like but if anyone else steps out of line they are over it like a hash. That includes their buddies in SF. It's the mindset of old, this is our wee Ulster and we'll call the shots.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: red hander on December 16, 2016, 12:21:44 AM
Any known reasons why SF should be as quiet as they have been?

Yes, they have been bought and paid for with the queens shilling!

The shinners are more British than Finchley these days, they have no moral compass and they are political bedfellows with that kn**ker Arlene Forster and her corrupt, hate filled party.

f**k, never thought I'd agree with stew  :o. Bottom line is, the whole thing is a gravy train and the Fermanagh Robbie Coltrane is the engine driver, it shows how desperate she is to keep her nose in the trough that she's resorted to slurs alleging Bell is a bully who intimidates women. As for the Shinners, an absolute disgrace to republicanism
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: armaghniac on December 16, 2016, 12:25:36 AM
Any known reasons why SF should be as quiet as they have been?

The point has been made elsewhere that SF piling in would just unite the DUP and that letting Bell and Nolan do the running is much more effective. There is some merit in this, but SF will have to get off the fence eventually and people will not be impressed with their being doormats.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: angermanagement on December 16, 2016, 12:35:15 AM
Why are SF not going for the jugular, from a personal perspective it looks like SF silence over the scandal will do them as much harm as the DUP.

Expect the lowest nationalist turn out at the next election in many a year.

If SF want to be taken serious as a political party for the next generation they need to show a set of balls and stand up for their so called principles.

Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: omagh_gael on December 16, 2016, 12:38:34 AM
Is it not widely accepted that both parties (DUP and Sinn Fein) signed a non aggression pact with the 'fresh start' deal last year? This issue must be putting huge pressure on them. What would the consequences be if they were to join the SDLPs vote of no confidence in Arlene on Monday? Do the DUP have something as juicy up their sleeve that will keep the shinners in line?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: trileacman on December 16, 2016, 12:42:27 AM
Yeah the motion of no confidence really puts SF in the spotlight. Imagine siding with Arlene after that shit show. What do the dup have on them.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Rossfan on December 16, 2016, 12:42:54 AM
Ah sure bad things only happen in the "Free State" (sic on so many fronts).
Haughey called it right 30 years ago - a failed entity.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: armaghniac on December 16, 2016, 01:04:46 AM
Ah sure bad things only happen in the "Free State" (sic on so many fronts).

Indeed, it has often been suggested by partitionist folk, both the bigot unionist type and the pseudo-nationalist type sometimes encountered here, that the 26 counties had some lack of moral fibre in its politics which wouldn't be found in the wee 6. Of course, they are much the same.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: DuffleKing on December 16, 2016, 01:44:49 AM

Is there one competent, resourceful MLA on the hill that works hard on behalf of his / her constituents?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: NetNitrate on December 16, 2016, 02:24:15 AM
Ah sure bad things only happen in the "Free State" (sic on so many fronts).

Indeed, it has often been suggested by partitionist folk, both the bigot unionist type and the pseudo-nationalist type sometimes encountered here, that the 26 counties had some lack of moral fibre in its politics which wouldn't be found in the wee 6. Of course, they are much the same.

The difference is in the south, after years of being brainwashed, they know their politicians are corrupt (no party is exempt). In the north the penny has yet to drop. But it will. Unless of course the DUP and SF figure a way to make money out of penny dropping. Getting paid vast sums to burn shit is as impressive as it gets however. FF were never that clever.

Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: ck on December 16, 2016, 07:26:12 AM
Why are SF not going for the jugular, from a personal perspective it looks like SF silence over the scandal will do them as much harm as the DUP.

Expect the lowest nationalist turn out at the next election in many a year.

If SF want to be taken serious as a political party for the next generation they need to show a set of balls and stand up for their so called principles.

Why would SF do that? No need. DUP are imploding. Time to stand back and watch. SF 100% correct
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: theskull1 on December 16, 2016, 07:47:35 AM
So where will following the money take us?

Will Balcas be in the frame?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: TyroneOnlooker on December 16, 2016, 08:00:24 AM
A failed system, a failed government, a failed state. What an embarrassment to Northern Ireland! I honestly think we'd be better off with direct rule, even conservative direct rule over this shower of useless, incompetent leeches.

In any normal democracy, Arlene would be long gone. In any normal democracy, the government partners would be creating tidal waves with their calls for her to go. Yet this is no normal democracy and SF sit and don't say a word!

Honestly, if she rides this one out then there really is no hope for this country. If Arlene can get away with this then the DUP really can do what they want. Utter madness.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: hardstation on December 16, 2016, 08:05:14 AM
Should the DUP not be asking why Arlene didn't deal with Bell's "well known" history of bullying and intimidation of women?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: doodaa on December 16, 2016, 08:21:11 AM
Why are SF not going for the jugular, from a personal perspective it looks like SF silence over the scandal will do them as much harm as the DUP.

Expect the lowest nationalist turn out at the next election in many a year.

If SF want to be taken serious as a political party for the next generation they need to show a set of balls and stand up for their so called principles.

Why would SF do that? No need. DUP are imploding. Time to stand back and watch. SF 100% correct

Whilst you would like to think this is the case there is a nagging doubt that SF will be 100% clean on this. In saying that though if SF had some sort of involvement I couldn't have seen Arlene holding back on naming them if that was the case.
Be interesting to see the list of beneficiaries abusing the scheme (It would be wrong to name those that were using the scheme in the spirit it was meant and tarring them with the same brush).
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: vallankumous on December 16, 2016, 08:36:06 AM


Why would SF do that? No need. DUP are imploding. Time to stand back and watch. SF 100% correct

That's their job. They have to hold politics and politicians to account. Both inside and outside the party.

If the assembly is not functioning or office is being abused then SF and all the other parties have a responsibility to address it.
Letting the DUP implode is not enough, it's bigger than that. This is a question of corruption and if there is corruption the Government and the assembly have failed.
We cannot allow this or any similar issue to be a DUP issue just because we are not DUP supporters. Those involved are members of the DUP and the DUP are members of the Government.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: an léirmheastóir on December 16, 2016, 08:45:14 AM
I think SF will speak out today. I think they have been wise thus far sitting back taking stock of all that's going on. Last nights interviews were startling even if bells was heavily edited, I think he comes out with more credibility than Arlene so far, his apology helped. Today we will see more revelations probably something from the senior civil servant and some of the spads. As for the dup imploding I doubt that will happen, bell will be shunned Arlene will stay put even if there is a motion of no confidence which I think is just the sdlp grandstanding. This will go same way as Nama where Daithí was forced to resign and redsky and has taken the heat of charter and dee stitt.

On another note imagine Arlene being intimidated I bet her husband sleeps under the bed.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: vallankumous on December 16, 2016, 08:47:04 AM
A failed system, a failed government, a failed state. What an embarrassment to Northern Ireland! I honestly think we'd be better off with direct rule, even conservative direct rule over this shower of useless, incompetent leeches.

In any normal democracy, Arlene would be long gone. In any normal democracy, the government partners would be creating tidal waves with their calls for her to go. Yet this is no normal democracy and SF sit and don't say a word!

Honestly, if she rides this one out then there really is no hope for this country. If Arlene can get away with this then the DUP really can do what they want. Utter madness.

Hang on, let's not throw out the baby.
Direct rule seen shootings and bombs. Direct is no answer to anything. Direct rule will have those you wish to remove power in proxy power as London does not give a feck about you and is as unaccountable to you as Moscow. Within the police, the civil service and across all Government run institutions direct rule will empower persons with no public image and no accountability to the public. Mini dictators all over the north acting anyway they wish. This sort of direct rule nonsense grows legs and i'm sure is not unpopular but it is very dangerous.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: under the bar on December 16, 2016, 09:24:49 AM
Quote

Why would SF do that? No need. DUP are imploding. Time to stand back and watch. SF 100% correct

Wouldn't quite say imploding.  They will circle the wagons and AF may step aside ala Robinson while they conduct a white-wash internal investigation.    The DUP press office will slowly leak lies about Bell to discredit him which the rank and file DUP sub-intelligent supporter will lap up.  "We've had concerns over his for some time but out of respect to family allowed to remain in post which was a mistake.  Numerous compliants about him,  increasingly erratic behaviour,  kept everyone in dark over what was going on,  once we all realised how incompetent he had been he was about or be sacked when he tried to save own skin and shift blame by going public".   Something along those lines being typed up right now you can bet just like for Iris the Virus.
 
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: JoG2 on December 16, 2016, 09:34:04 AM
It was fairly mad seeing those interviews last night. The praying, the tears, repetitively quoting big Ian (has anyone in the north more blood on their hands than his?).   Foster backed into a corner and out came the claws with a complete character assassination of Bell. If what Bell says is true with the email trails and their content, the time lines etc, she has given herself more than enough rope.

Sammy Wilson this morning saying the senior spads have no influence on ministers...what an absolute clown

Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: trileacman on December 16, 2016, 10:11:20 AM
A failed system, a failed government, a failed state. What an embarrassment to Northern Ireland! I honestly think we'd be better off with direct rule, even conservative direct rule over this shower of useless, incompetent leeches.

In any normal democracy, Arlene would be long gone. In any normal democracy, the government partners would be creating tidal waves with their calls for her to go. Yet this is no normal democracy and SF sit and don't say a word!

Honestly, if she rides this one out then there really is no hope for this country. If Arlene can get away with this then the DUP really can do what they want. Utter madness.

Hang on, let's not throw out the baby.
Direct rule seen shootings and bombs. Direct is no answer to anything. Direct rule will have those you wish to remove power in proxy power as London does not give a feck about you and is as unaccountable to you as Moscow. Within the police, the civil service and across all Government run institutions direct rule will empower persons with no public image and no accountability to the public. Mini dictators all over the north acting anyway they wish. This sort of direct rule nonsense grows legs and i'm sure is not unpopular but it is very dangerous.

If the executive falls do we not get ruled by a north/south council? I thought that was the body it fell to.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: vallankumous on December 16, 2016, 10:19:20 AM


If the executive falls do we not get ruled by a north/south council? I thought that was the body it fell to.

I'd imagine there'd be an election first to see about reestablishment. It won't fall, Turkeys and Christmas.
I've forgotten what is supposed to happen. Brinkmanship has dulled the brain but I doubt north/south council. Direct rule I'd say with an advisory north/south council for the illousion of south involvement.
Maybe another poster could clarify what's in the GFA?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: armaghniac on December 16, 2016, 10:54:05 AM
Arlene, do not ask for whom the Bell tolls, it tolls for thee.

Direct rule in the present situation would be very very dangerous, they'd probably send back Theresa Villiers as economy minister.

Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: OgraAnDun on December 16, 2016, 11:03:16 AM
Arlene, do not ask for whom the Bell tolls, it tolls for thee.

Direct rule in the present situation would be very very dangerous
, they'd probably send back Theresa Villiers as economy minister.

Totally agree, it's bad enough in a normal epoch never mind with the whole of the British government focused on Brexit. No chance of the south stepping in either with the Blueshirts in government.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: armaghniac on December 16, 2016, 11:18:35 AM
Totally agree, it's bad enough in a normal epoch never mind with the whole of the British government focused on Brexit. No chance of the south stepping in either with the Blueshirts in government.

the 26 county government should stay well out of this, as it would only lead to the unionists circling the wagons. Any efforts from Dublin at present should be solely concerned with ensuring that the British do not feck up cross border trade.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: johnneycool on December 16, 2016, 11:20:17 AM
Yeah the motion of no confidence really puts SF in the spotlight. Imagine siding with Arlene after that shit show. What do the dup have on them.

Any new heating systems in Connolly House?

I wonder who's going to align with Bell on this one as two other MLA's in the DUP are from Ards, Hamilton and McIlveen??

Arlene certainly lowered the blades on Bell last night, portrayed him as a bit of a misogynistic bullyboy!!

Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: vallankumous on December 16, 2016, 11:20:45 AM
Totally agree, it's bad enough in a normal epoch never mind with the whole of the British government focused on Brexit. No chance of the south stepping in either with the Blueshirts in government.

the 26 county government should stay well out of this, as it would only lead to the unionists circling the wagons. Any efforts from Dublin at present should be solely concerned with ensuring that the British do not feck up cross border trade.

IT's a FG Government with backed by Indo's led by Shane Ross. They have nothing to worry about.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Rossfan on December 16, 2016, 11:21:44 AM
Arlene, do not ask for whom the Bell tolls, it tolls for thee.

Direct rule in the present situation would be very very dangerous
, they'd probably send back Theresa Villiers as economy minister.

Totally agree, it's bad enough in a normal epoch never mind with the whole of the British government focused on Brexit. No chance of the south stepping in either with the Blueshirts in government.

"the south" (sic) won't be stepping in no matter who is in Government.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: muppet on December 16, 2016, 12:29:42 PM
Totally agree, it's bad enough in a normal epoch never mind with the whole of the British government focused on Brexit. No chance of the south stepping in either with the Blueshirts in government.

the 26 county government should stay well out of this, as it would only lead to the unionists circling the wagons. Any efforts from Dublin at present should be solely concerned with ensuring that the British do not feck up cross border trade.

IT's a FG Government with backed by Indo's led by Shane Ross. They have nothing to worry about.

Yes of course. If the government fell, Gerry would invade in the morning.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: vallankumous on December 16, 2016, 01:00:52 PM


Yes of course. If the government fell, Gerry would invade in the morning.

Reductio ad adsurdum.

You win.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: muppet on December 16, 2016, 01:06:36 PM


Yes of course. If the government fell, Gerry would invade in the morning.

Reductio ad adsurdum.

You win.

Is that Gerry's name in Latin?  ;)

But I agree, it is absurd to suggest that Gerry would do anything different.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: passedit on December 16, 2016, 03:03:45 PM
So we're all agreed that Gerry stood idly by in the past?

I'm enjoying LADFLEG's twitter coverage of this.

This tweet being my personal favourite.

https://twitter.com/LADFLEG/status/809540252784324608 (https://twitter.com/LADFLEG/status/809540252784324608)

Quote
"Physical bulk" Wise up, Arlene, you've hairier balls than he'll ever have.

Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: muppet on December 16, 2016, 04:17:42 PM
So we're all agreed that Gerry stood idly by in the past?

I'm enjoying LADFLEG's twitter coverage of this.

This tweet being my personal favourite.

https://twitter.com/LADFLEG/status/809540252784324608 (https://twitter.com/LADFLEG/status/809540252784324608)

Quote
"Physical bulk" Wise up, Arlene, you've hairier balls than he'll ever have.

Here is a clip of that prayer before the interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUsgFnM4NB8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUsgFnM4NB8)

It reminds me of the prayer Monica Lewinsky shared with Bill Clinton.

The 'Churchmen' weren't even bothered enough to have their hands out of their pockets.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: OgraAnDun on December 16, 2016, 04:19:44 PM
Totally agree, it's bad enough in a normal epoch never mind with the whole of the British government focused on Brexit. No chance of the south stepping in either with the Blueshirts in government.

the 26 county government should stay well out of this, as it would only lead to the unionists circling the wagons. Any efforts from Dublin at present should be solely concerned with ensuring that the British do not feck up cross border trade.

I meant if Stormont collapsed, there would be direct rule from our British overlords and no joint rule with FG in power. A pretty good reason for SF to keep their mouths shut and let the DUP embarrass themselves without collapsing Stormont.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: muppet on December 16, 2016, 04:30:00 PM
Totally agree, it's bad enough in a normal epoch never mind with the whole of the British government focused on Brexit. No chance of the south stepping in either with the Blueshirts in government.

the 26 county government should stay well out of this, as it would only lead to the unionists circling the wagons. Any efforts from Dublin at present should be solely concerned with ensuring that the British do not feck up cross border trade.

I meant if Stormont collapsed, there would be direct rule from our British overlords and no joint rule with FG in power. A pretty good reason for SF to keep their mouths shut and let the DUP embarrass themselves without collapsing Stormont.

NI politics is like no other. While the DUP is the enemy of SF, there is no chance of one winning votes from the other. In that regard, there is little electoral advantage to sticking the knife in. However, if SF can help to keep a lame duck Foster in power, who knows what benefit that leverage could yield?

I'm thinking Brexit, but locally there must be countless things that people can think of.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: vallankumous on December 16, 2016, 04:58:27 PM
Or they don't want to distract from the issue.
The last thing SF need to do is attack the DUP. This would only rally their supporters and deflect from the issue.
There is nothing that units the DUP more than their dislike for SF

There is no leverage. The lead ship of the DUP is a matter for the DUP. There is no way the a DUP leader could stay on if SF had some sort of leverage
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: OgraAnDun on December 16, 2016, 06:14:55 PM
Well they'be broken their silence anyway. Martin has urged Arlene to stand down until an independent review reaches its conclusion.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: armaghniac on December 16, 2016, 06:33:32 PM
Totally agree, it's bad enough in a normal epoch never mind with the whole of the British government focused on Brexit. No chance of the south stepping in either with the Blueshirts in government.

the 26 county government should stay well out of this, as it would only lead to the unionists circling the wagons. Any efforts from Dublin at present should be solely concerned with ensuring that the British do not feck up cross border trade.

I meant if Stormont collapsed, there would be direct rule from our British overlords and no joint rule with FG in power. A pretty good reason for SF to keep their mouths shut and let the DUP embarrass themselves without collapsing Stormont.

FG being in power or not as no effect on what will happen.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on December 16, 2016, 08:09:20 PM
Well they'be broken their silence anyway. Martin has urged Arlene to stand down until an independent review reaches its conclusion.

A day late and a dollar short.

It has taken some time for SF to decide to break step with the forces of darkness and to come in line with the majority of the people and virtually all of their supporters. 

Was this only taken when Arlene mentioned Marty's name in her Nolan interview as a potential witness for her?

Time to focus in on two things:

1. Arlene asleep at the wheel or willing to fleece HM Treasury like any good subject before she found out that the well was virtually dry and the Brits wouldn't be continuing with full funding of the scheme.  Ran her own scheme without Finance approval for its cost, no protocols in place.

2. The name of those who bailed into the scheme in the final weeks and the 53% of members of the scheme found by PWC to be simply milking it for the subsidy with no requirement for the heat.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Syferus on December 16, 2016, 09:02:37 PM
Had to laugh at Martin McGuiness trying to get Foster to resign over some heating shite and him quiet as a kitten the last two weeks as his own leader made a holy show of his party yet again. Only in the north.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: bennydorano on December 16, 2016, 09:17:54 PM
Well they'be broken their silence anyway. Martin has urged Arlene to stand down until an independent review reaches its conclusion.

A day late and a dollar short.

It has taken some time for SF to decide to break step with the forces of darkness and to come in line with the majority of the people and virtually all of their supporters. 

Was this only taken when Arlene mentioned Marty's name in her Nolan interview as a potential witness for her?

Time to focus in on two things:

1. Arlene asleep at the wheel or willing to fleece HM Treasury like any good subject before she found out that the well was virtually dry and the Brits wouldn't be continuing with full funding of the scheme.  Ran her own scheme without Finance approval for its cost, no protocols in place.

2. The name of those who bailed into the scheme in the final weeks and the 53% of members of the scheme found by PWC to be simply milking it for the subsidy with no requirement for the heat.
Certainty that some MLAs families & friends will be caught with their noses in the trough
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 16, 2016, 10:11:46 PM

Certainty that some MLAs families & friends will be caught with their noses in the through

You'd think this'd be a gift to the shinners, you'd think they'd be cranking out the full-volume condemnation flat out, and instead they're a bit muted in their response. Makes you wonder if some of their own were milking the scheme too.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on December 16, 2016, 10:20:29 PM

Certainty that some MLAs families & friends will be caught with their noses in the through

You'd think this'd be a gift to the shinners, you'd think they'd be cranking out the full-volume condemnation flat out, and instead they're a bit muted in their response. Makes you wonder if some of their own were milking the scheme too.

Just shows that the illusion of power is more important to SF than properly doing the right thing in bringing Arlene to book.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on December 16, 2016, 10:24:21 PM
Jonathan Bell has just announced that he has engaged Paul Tweed of Johnson's Law Belfast to deal with the statement by Arlene in the Nolan interview. 
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: michaelg on December 16, 2016, 10:33:01 PM
The pair of them should go on Jeremy Kyle.  Quick lie detector test.  Sorted.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Smokin Joe on December 16, 2016, 10:42:02 PM
I listened to Sammy Wilson's interview this morning on GMU and he said that no one knew in May 2015 (when Arlene Foster ended her reign as Enterprise Minister) that the Scheme was costing us, as taxpayers, millions.  This was his justification as to why Arlene was absolved of any blame or fault.

This is not true.  The biomass manufacturers / installers were aware of this and were heavily advertising this.

Have a look at this tweet from Solmatix (an installer of biomass burners) in March 2015:

https://twitter.com/Solmatix/status/573173933534523392

The above promotional flyer actually states "Wood pellets cost 4.9p per kwh, but remember the RHI income is 6.3p per Kwh." 
If the manufacturers were aware of this and were using this "free money" angle to sell these burners then there is absolutely no reason for the minister responsible (who was Arlene Foster) to not be aware of this!!

Sammy was happy to say that Bell was responsible for everything in his department (ie he couldn't hide behind SPADs and not having received adequate briefing papers from his Civil Servants etc), so I assume the same applies to Arlene also?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: muppet on December 16, 2016, 10:45:11 PM
The pair of them should go on Jeremy Kyle.  Quick lie detector test.  Sorted.

Up the voltage massively.

Could be a bit of craic.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: gallsman on December 16, 2016, 11:48:31 PM
I listened to Sammy Wilson's interview this morning on GMU and he said that no one knew in May 2015 (when Arlene Foster ended her reign as Enterprise Minister) that the Scheme was costing us, as taxpayers, millions.  This was his justification as to why Arlene was absolved of any blame or fault.

This is not true.  The biomass manufacturers / installers were aware of this and were heavily advertising this.

Have a look at this tweet from Solmatix (an installer of biomass burners) in March 2015:

https://twitter.com/Solmatix/status/573173933534523392

The above promotional flyer actually states "Wood pellets cost 4.9p per kwh, but remember the RHI income is 6.3p per Kwh." 
If the manufacturers were aware of this and were using this "free money" angle to sell these burners then there is absolutely no reason for the minister responsible (who was Arlene Foster) to not be aware of this!!

Sammy was happy to say that Bell was responsible for everything in his department (ie he couldn't hide behind SPADs and not having received adequate briefing papers from his Civil Servants etc), so I assume the same applies to Arlene also?

Never mind the facts, what's worse is that Wilson thinks incompetence is an excuse!
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Gold on December 17, 2016, 12:00:37 AM
That praying bit before the interview was pure TV Gold!

Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: hardstation on December 17, 2016, 12:52:25 AM
It was bloody odd anyway. Christ, I'm glad my ancestors were persecuted for years. Imagine living with that shite..
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: laceer on December 17, 2016, 07:08:43 AM
They should have used the heat coming off Arlene's ears during the interview with Nolan. Would have saved at least £100m.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: vallankumous on December 17, 2016, 07:31:29 AM

You'd think this'd be a gift to the shinners, you'd think they'd be cranking out the full-volume condemnation flat out, and instead they're a bit muted in their response. Makes you wonder if some of their own were milking the scheme too.

It really doesn't. That's just you thinking, 'how do I tar SF in this?'.

We sit and crib about the politics in the north while we engage in the same crap everyday. DUP haters will focus on the DUP, SF haters will bring SF into it and so on and so on.
So rather than talk about politics we talk about political parties. That suits every body.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on December 17, 2016, 09:53:42 AM

It really doesn't. That's just you thinking, 'how do I tar SF in this?'.

We sit and crib about the politics in the north while we engage in the same crap everyday. DUP haters will focus on the DUP, SF haters will bring SF into it and so on and so on.
So rather than talk about politics we talk about political parties. That suits every body.

You appear quite handy with the tar brush yourself.

Majority of the posts are attacking the actions by DUP politicians and the inaction by SF politicians, all for their own benefit or self protection.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: vallankumous on December 17, 2016, 10:32:27 AM


You appear quite handy with the tar brush yourself.

Majority of the posts are attacking the actions by DUP politicians and the inaction by SF politicians, all for their own benefit or self protection.

Yes, meaning it's a DUP SF thing. Whereas I think it's a political thing.

I'm going to vote DUP next time just to let SF know they need more than my location to count on me. I've no time for the DUP or SF but our electorate are so reliable it doesn't change. Even republicans and nationalists will use this as an opportunity to attack SF. Fair enough but that's not addressing the problem, it's just sustaining it.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on December 17, 2016, 10:47:28 AM
Ian Knox on form today in The Irish News

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Rossfan on December 17, 2016, 11:16:36 AM
Excellent cartoon.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Last Man on December 17, 2016, 11:33:30 AM

Certainty that some MLAs families & friends will be caught with their noses in the through

You'd think this'd be a gift to the shinners, you'd think they'd be cranking out the full-volume condemnation flat out, and instead they're a bit muted in their response. Makes you wonder if some of their own were milking the scheme too.
The shinners have to tread carefully and puck their battles. If they go out all guns blazing it will only serve to re-unite the DUP against them and remove all focus from the issue at hand. TV Mike etc. are all over it anyway.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on December 17, 2016, 12:50:55 PM
Revealed: DUP donor one of the largest beneficiaries of RHI scheme

Posted on 22 Hours Ago by jamiebrysonadmin

A large DUP donor from Clogher Valley is one of the largest beneficiaries of the Renewable Heat Incentive scheme, it can be revealed.

Fred Maxwell owns a farm with up to 270,000 chickens. Mr Maxwell is a well known farmer and is also a DUP donor.

Mr Maxwell spent around £1m to build a factory to convert timber into shavings for wood fire boilers.

Mr Maxwell’s farm has at least one boiler and is one of those that stands to benefit from an enormous amounts of public money from the ‘cash for ash’ scheme.

The well known farmer is known to have close relationships with senior DUP SpAds and it is believed he was advised to invest in building a factory in order to maximise his profits. This advice is believed to have come from DUP SpAds, who also have deep connections to the farming community.

Mr Maxwell approached a number of other farmers and encouraged them to ‘get onboard’ the scheme and boasted of the huge profits he would make as a result of the scheme.

This raises further questions for the DUP, as sources have questioned whether party donors were rewarded via the RHI scheme, for their financial donations. It has even been sensationally suggested that there was an agreement that some of the profits creamed from the RHI scheme would be funnelled back into the party as ‘donations’. 

In a separate development it has been revealed that the old Ulster Weavers bleachworks in Bandbridge has 12 boilers in operation and is believed to have been leaving doors open to allow heat out, and maximise profits from the scheme. The building was not heated for 8 years prior to the beginning of the RHI scheme.

https://jamiebrysonblog.wordpress.com/2016/12/16/revealed-dup-donor-one-of-the-largest-beneficiaries-of-rhi-scheme/



Biomass Equipment R&S Case Study: Maxwell Farms, Tyrone

Renewable Heat Incentive In addition to fuel savings of 50-80%[1], each of the 6 installations is separately eligible for Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI) payments. The project receives RHI income of 6.1 pence for every kWh of heat produced by each of the 99kW boilers. RHI payments are guaranteed for 20 years and the tarriff is index linked to inflation. A 99kW boiler installed in a poultry house would expect to produce an average yearly income of £12,000 - £15,000 through the RHI (based on evidence from several similar projects). Therefore a project of this size would expect to raise £72,000 - £90,000 per annum, for 20 years

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:TbJOV_6vB9sJ:rsbiomass.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Case-Study-6-x-Froling-T4-99kW-woodchip-boilers.pdf+&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk


Moy Park  "In recent months 68 biomass boilers have been installed by farm owners on Moy Park’s managed farms in GB with more planned for the rest of the year and in Northern Ireland 280 poultry houses will have biomass heating systems installed by our growers by the first quarter of 2015, with 105 currently in place."

https://www.moypark.com/en/news/major-investment-in-biomass-technology
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on December 17, 2016, 02:03:19 PM
Best quote of the saga so far goes to commentator Alex Kane:

"An exorcism wouldn't remove Arlene Foster"
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on December 17, 2016, 02:06:29 PM
If Arlene has shown her true colours in recent days then O'Muilleoir has surely shown his in relation to RHI.

From Slugger O'Toole

Maírtín, quick to lay into Bell – not so quick for Foster
Kris Nixon (Belfast Barman) on 15 December 2016

Just a curious observation following Finance Minister Maírtín Ó Muilleoir commenting yesterday on the ongoing RHI situation, where he refused to say if he retained confidence in the DUP leader.

Quite a stark contrast to when the Finance Minister appeared before the Finance Committee to answer questions raised over the Daithí McKay/Jamie Bryson deep throat situation. When Jonathan Bell began to give Ó Muilleoir a hard time in the witness seat, the Finance Minister was irascible in his replies.

Ó Muilleoir refused to give any respect to Bell in his line of questioning, continuously speaking over Bell and indeed speaking over Little-Pengelly as the committee chair, with such zingers as, “As the man who did more to bust the finances of this government than anyone…”

The finance minister seemed to make his opinions perfectly clear throughout the exchange that as far he saw it, he was having to clean up the mess left behind over the RHI scheme by Bell during his incumbency.

Interesting how, when the focus shifts from Bell to Foster, Ó Muilleoir is reserved, respectful and unwilling to provide such cutting soundbites.

What is it they say about being given enough rope?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: ziggysego on December 17, 2016, 04:46:29 PM


You appear quite handy with the tar brush yourself.

Majority of the posts are attacking the actions by DUP politicians and the inaction by SF politicians, all for their own benefit or self protection.

Yes, meaning it's a DUP SF thing. Whereas I think it's a political thing.

I'm going to vote DUP next time just to let SF know they need more than my location to count on me. I've no time for the DUP or SF but our electorate are so reliable it doesn't change. Even republicans and nationalists will use this as an opportunity to attack SF. Fair enough but that's not addressing the problem, it's just sustaining it.

DUP cause one of the biggest financial scandals in the north and as a result you're going to vote for them to put manners on Sinn Fein?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: armaghniac on December 17, 2016, 05:49:02 PM
Bell to sue Arlene over bullying allegations.
This is great craic altogether.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: T Fearon on December 17, 2016, 05:54:07 PM
Actually SF are wisely keeping out of this,and letting the DUP tear themselves apart.A major Sinn Fein intervention would simply cause the DUP to come together,on the defensive against the SF bogeyman,and slow down the implosion.

Looks like Bell copped on that he was going to be sacrificed to save Arlene and got his spoke in first.He will return home to the welcome arms of the UUP,from whence he came,shortly I'd say.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on December 18, 2016, 09:57:29 AM
Bell suspended by DUP.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38356889 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38356889)
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: imtommygunn on December 18, 2016, 12:26:40 PM
Actually SF are wisely keeping out of this,and letting the DUP tear themselves apart.A major Sinn Fein intervention would simply cause the DUP to come together,on the defensive against the SF bogeyman,and slow down the implosion.

Looks like Bell copped on that he was going to be sacrificed to save Arlene and got his spoke in first.He will return home to the welcome arms of the UUP,from whence he came,shortly I'd say.

Didn't realise he was former uup but looks like he will get sunk. How is arlene going to weasel out of this one? I have no doubt she will as per robinson so it will be interesting to see how.

Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 18, 2016, 12:58:19 PM
http://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/sinn-fein-will-not-back-sdlp-motion-to-suspend-first-minister-arlene-foster-for-six-months-35303046.html

Who are the stoops now lol.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on December 18, 2016, 01:20:39 PM
This shows the weasel words of Marty calling for Arlene to stand aside but when a cross community proposal is brought to the Assembly to exclude the FM for 6 months to allow an investigation, SF won't support it.  Another example of SF doing anything to hang on to the coat tails of DUP and power.  It show the party's contempt for its electorate, knowing that they will meekly turn up for the next election and vote SF regardless.

Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: doodaa on December 18, 2016, 03:31:02 PM
This shows the weasel words of Marty calling for Arlene to stand aside but when a cross community proposal is brought to the Assembly to exclude the FM for 6 months to allow an investigation, SF won't support it.  Another example of SF doing anything to hang on to the coat tails of DUP and power.  It show the party's contempt for its electorate, knowing that they will meekly turn up for the next election and vote SF regardless.

It doesn't say they won't support it, the article says they will make the decision tomorrow morning so you're jumping the gun a bit with that post ^^^. At least wait till they do make a decision before you attack them lol
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on December 18, 2016, 03:46:16 PM
I have been doing some searches on the internet around this RHI fiasco, and the one glaring fact that I can't find
is how no one in any of the other parties copped on to the fact that there was no cap on the payback?
How on earth did no one pick up on that and raise a flag?

There were plenty of consultations, and as far as I can gather, no one brought it up. As we now know,
that is what is going to cost us nearly £500 million.......

From early in this scheme, it was widely known within the biomass boiler industry that it was a gravy train.
What a gift to that particular industry........

I wonder how many of them received funding from Invest NI?

One Biomass boiler company had this to say about exhibiting at a £75 a head RHI conference in June 2013:

"Original Heating Ltd is pleased to be one of the exhibitors at the Action Renewables comprehensive conference on the Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI). Taking place on Thursday 20th June at the Ramada Plaza Hotel, Shaw’s Bridge Belfast, this highly-anticipated event, will provide an in-depth look at the RHI and educate businesses and organisations across the public and private sector on how they can generate heat and get paid for it!"

This was the panel on the night:

Edmund Ward, Senior Technical Advisor, OFGEM, who will explain the application process to delegates and break down the mechanics of the scheme; Gaynor Hartnell, Director of Policy at the Renewable Energy Association (REA), who will give an insight into how GB businesses/organisations have availed of the RHI and review what the outstanding issues and discuss the next steps for the scheme. Lord Brookeborough, owner of Colebrooke Estate and Spa, Co Fermanagh, will also speak about the benefits of RHI and his experience, having recently installed a KWB wood chip and pellet boiler; and biomass expert Dr John Gilliland OBE, Director of Original Heating, will give an insight into the benefits of biomass as a renewable fuel.

Another thing I can't understand is how Michelle O'Neill or the Department Of Agriculture had very little to say about a scheme
that was going to benefit the agriculture sector. Going by one Moy Park article, by March 2015, nearly 400 poultry houses
would have installed wood pellet burners, and been in line for payments for 20 years. Considering the scheme didn't end in its
top end until November 2015, I reckon another few hundred were added to that number.

Now, given how big a boost that was to hundreds of farmers, and given the environmental benefits of the scheme, why wasn't
she promoting it during her time as Agriculture Minister? During her time she was a great supporter of raw materials for the
Biomass sector, and funded various programmes in that sector.

My guess is that she was asleep at the wheel. Traditionally the Agriculture sector is DUP dominated, and my guess is that the
main benefactors of this scheme will be DUP aligned farmers. Michelle Gildernew was ten times the better agriculture minister,
and i'm quite sure if she had copped on to the missing cap and abuse, she would have raised a flag.

My hunch is that about 80% of the RHI claims will be to people close to the DUP.

And lets face it, if this scheme was taken up by certain farmers in Derry, Tyrone Fermanagh and Armagh,  they would be able
to teach a few lessons on exploiting a grant from Whitehall.........

My take on what I know now is that this was a DUP led project that left out one important detail, a detail that has led to us having
to pay over £400 million over 20 years. They knew the money was coming from Whitehall and not the Stormont budget, so therefor
they could get away with having their chums exploiting it. The slap in the mouth came when Whitehall said no.......

I have long been of the opinion that the DUP are only going along with the circus at Stormont in order to maximise benefits
for themselves and their friends. Sinn Fein to a lesser extent do the same. We the people pay for all of it.

We endured a brutal dirty war, and it has been followed by a dirty peace. To this day, the victims and families who these
political parties rose to power on still can't get closure or compensation for their loss and pain. However, people are heating
large buildings with the doors and windows open 24 hours a day and getting paid for it, courtesy of Stormont.

It is really sickening to see that this is where we are after all we went through and suffered.

Eternal shame on all those MLA's elected to look after our interests and who were asleep at the wheel while this
scheme was abused and exploited.

And i'm quite sure this isn't the only scheme been exploited that we are yet to hear about.....

Remember this when you go out to vote again.......
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: heganboy on December 18, 2016, 03:58:51 PM
the most interesting thing about this for me is what next?

Say you are the SF political strategy team.

Vote no confidence and Martin steps down. This triggers the assembly elections. SF's make this a brexit poll implementing a similar devolution plan proposed by Nicola Sturgeon this weekend.

Seems like fun to me.

SDLP will support a similar plan and in fact could probably support an election pact on that basis.
UUP were a brexit opponent, as were the minute parties.

How say you now the unionist population? Do you go big devolution to retain ties to the UK while remaining in the EU and giving you any economic chance at survival. Or do you vote status quo and watch the life drain slowly from the province as the UK draws back it's little government jobs to England, and the support of the EU stops cold turkey? Can Moy Park afford to stay? Where does that leave industry and blue collar jobs?

What does the DUP do? Do they back remain?

No lose situation for the Shinners...
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on December 18, 2016, 04:17:00 PM
the most interesting thing about this for me is what next?

Say you are the SF political strategy team.

Vote no confidence and Martin steps down. This triggers the assembly elections. SF's make this a brexit poll implementing a similar devolution plan proposed by Nicola Sturgeon this weekend.

Seems like fun to me.

SDLP will support a similar plan and in fact could probably support an election pact on that basis.
UUP were a brexit opponent, as were the minute parties.

How say you now the unionist population? Do you go big devolution to retain ties to the UK while remaining in the EU and giving you any economic chance at survival. Or do you vote status quo and watch the life drain slowly from the province as the UK draws back it's little government jobs to England, and the support of the EU stops cold turkey? Can Moy Park afford to stay? Where does that leave industry and blue collar jobs?

What does the DUP do? Do they back remain?

No lose situation for the Shinners...


Moy Park have plans in place:



One of Dungannon’s biggest employers has already chosen to set up its new headquarters in the Republic of Ireland rather than Northern Ireland. Moy Park’s parent company JBS made the move due to the financial shelter afforded by the South and fears over the EU referendum, it is believed. However, the company’s Chief Executive Janet McCollum said she was confident that the business would continue to expand in spite of the vote.

“Although there will be changes to the environment in which we operate, we are confident that we have a robust business that can continue to thrive and grow”, she said. JBS had contingency plans in place in the event of the UK leaving the EU. It had been busy setting up Dublin-based shell companies as it prepared to relocate its global headquarters.

Moy Park is one of the UK’s and Europe’s biggest agri-food companies and relies heavily on workers from across the EU, although it has refused to disclose exactly how many of its staff are from outside the British Isles. Talking about Moy Park’s pro-EU stance, Janet McCollum said: “We are a European business and Europe is our market, so we are strongly in favour of the UK remaining within the EU. “Any move away from the free market in which we currently operate could increase tariffs, add administrative burdens and limit export opportunities.”

 http://www.tyronetimes.co.uk/news/dungannon-s-biggest-employer-has-brexit-contigency-plans-including-new-headquarters-in-the-south-1-7464574
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on December 18, 2016, 04:59:14 PM
Balcas cushty as renewable fires roar


Posted on December 16, 2016 by thegasmancommeth

One of the big winners in the RHI scandal is Balcas.  They are the largest manufacturer of wood pellets on the island (and indeed in the UK if one source is to be believed).  These RHI boilers have to burn something – and for the majority its Balcas fuel.  While many have deplored and been outraged that chicken houses and car showrooms are being heated at taxpayers expense, we must also be conscious of the indirect  benefit to stove suppliers and to fuel suppliers.

The RHI incentive has been described as getting paid one pound sixty for every one pound of fuel burnt.  The total cost (what’s often forgotten is Westminster central Govt costs here) will be in the region of 1.18 billion GBP.   This would seem to indicate that over 700 million GBP of pellets will be purchased.

Some of Balcas directors are rumoured to be close to Minister Foster.  In an intriguing twist DED NI is listed as a major shareholder in Balcas.  DED (Department for Economic Development) was the old name for DETI which has now become DfE (Department for the Economy).  SHV – the huge family owned Dutch industrial conglomerate has shareholdings in Balcas too, via their  ‘the clean energy company BV’.  Calor – the bottled LPG company is also a subsidiary of SHV.  SHV has links to fracking, but more because of its wide industrial base – eg pipeline components and valves for high pressure pumps etc.. than any direct involvement in fracking itself, although they did appear to get lots of money from the EU to consult with rural dwellers on energy a while back.

So there are questions to be asked about how DED NI is listed as a shareholder and whether a conflict of interest was declared when they launched this RHI.  Does DETI/DfE profit from this shareholding and if so did they ?  It could be viewed as a back door method of routing money from Central Government into a Northern Ireland Department.

Given Balcas base is in the First Minister’s constituency we are aware of some ties between Minister Foster and the company board.  Unfortunately donor secrecy is still an issue in Northern Ireland politics so there is no donor  register to check, whilst its also quite easy to get around rules anyhow.   Besides we saw with the ‘fracking’ situation that Mrs Foster wasn’t that keen to declare interests.

https://thegasmancometh.wordpress.com/2016/12/16/balcas-cushty-as-renewable-fires-roar/





 
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: orangeman on December 18, 2016, 08:58:53 PM
Grave consequences tomorrow have been threatened if Arlene makes a statement that Martin hasn't given his blessing.

Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on December 18, 2016, 10:40:53 PM
Definetly an interesting day up on the hill tomorrow. There is only one answer to all of this tomorrow and that's the suspension of Arlene until a full independent enquiry takes place. Anything else is a big F you to the electorate and shame on anyone or any party that helps her cling to power.

All of this just goes to prove that the DUP still believe themselves to be the power lords over everything in the North and expect everyone else to fall into place behind to do their bidding and be happy with the scraps.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: JimStynes on December 18, 2016, 11:51:03 PM
Hearing rumours about Marty's health
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: yellowcard on December 19, 2016, 10:34:32 AM
Foster's position is surely untenable after the latest email release. She was either totally incompetent or simply complicit in a stroke.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: vallankumous on December 19, 2016, 11:19:38 AM
Hearing rumours about Marty's health

Hearing and spreading
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: imtommygunn on December 19, 2016, 11:31:03 AM
Foster's position is surely untenable after the latest email release. She was either totally incompetent or simply complicit in a stroke.

Robinson's position was pretty much untenable a few times but it didn't matter. No shame in them and do what they want. Hard to see how she'll survive this but she's so brazen she likely will.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: heganboy on December 19, 2016, 01:33:55 PM
stormont is currently a DUP only zone, as all other parties walked out for Foster's statement.

A lot of political gambles going on in the north this morning. Foster had to start by making it clear that the statement did not have DFM approval, but yet claims that SF have no say in the matter.

This smells like one of those things that ends political careers- question is who's?

I think the other main parties are currently playing a blinder. The optics of this for the punter are awful for the DUP. Seems like Bell and now Robinson are getting the under the bus treatment. Who is next?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: heganboy on December 19, 2016, 01:36:14 PM
also very interesting that the FM just called out the UUP, SDLP, TUV and the Alliance.

SF are getting a free pass so far...
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: The Gs Man on December 19, 2016, 01:37:49 PM
Have you ever seen a more smug, patronising woman in your life?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: imtommygunn on December 19, 2016, 02:00:57 PM
"Our people deserve better"

You couldn't make it up.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: yellowcard on December 19, 2016, 04:00:30 PM
Foster has taken arrogance and misjudgement to new levels today.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Applesisapples on December 19, 2016, 04:52:19 PM
The DUP treat the Shinners like the poodles they are fast becoming.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on December 19, 2016, 04:58:21 PM
Foster has taken arrogance and misjudgement to new levels today.

Supported by her junior partners in SF who refused to kick the ball into an open goal. Arlene swatted SF aside in going alone with her statement with the same contempt and disregard that she showed for all today.

Eamonn McCann called SF out in demanding a new election and now he has something to continue to pick away at until an election occurs.  Even as only two voices in the assembly, PBP will now have something concrete to bring back to the electorate.

SF either duplicitous or incompetent in putting forward a motion for Foster to stand aside that did not met the basic requirements to be accepted and then refused to support the cross community motion asking that she should stand aside for 2 additional months than the one they had put further.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: stiffler on December 19, 2016, 06:00:03 PM
Can any of our political commentators explain SFs actions today?

Perhaps they are 1 step ahead, i just cant see it though.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 19, 2016, 06:11:48 PM
Can any of our political commentators explain SFs actions today?

Perhaps they are 1 step ahead, i just cant see it though.
There will be a ransom letter of that there is no doubt.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on December 19, 2016, 06:17:39 PM
Can any of our political commentators explain SFs actions today?

Perhaps they are 1 step ahead, i just cant see it though.

Looking at UTV news tonight and its interview with Martin McGuinness, SF not a step ahead but one back to stay behind Arlene.  His call that there would be grave consequences for Arlene if she moved ahead without his consent has now become a friendly piece of advice on how she would be best to proceed.  What a climb down and falling into line behind the DUP.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: trileacman on December 19, 2016, 09:05:01 PM
SF were a f**king disgrace today.

They really are the biggest stoops around.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: T Fearon on December 19, 2016, 10:40:36 PM
No longer a supporter of any Northern party,but from SF's perspective if Arlene was ousted she would be replaced by Dodds,a nightmare scenario for every nationalist.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Captain Black on December 19, 2016, 10:59:29 PM
There will be grave consequences

*waits*
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Minder on December 19, 2016, 11:03:03 PM
There will be grave consequences

*waits*

Yeah was wondering about that, don't think they had a clue what they were doing and hoped Foster would step away for a while
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: orangeman on December 19, 2016, 11:52:16 PM
There will be grave consequences

*waits*

No surprise. Just wait till it's your turn and then you'll be looking for help.

Keep supping the gravy.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: heganboy on December 20, 2016, 01:15:19 AM
Is this some sort of idiots union.?


Really? OMG what are SF up to. It's so suspenseful

I'm not sure at this point if you are ripping the piss or just not getting, never mind.  Those SF guys eh?

Hilarious
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: sensethetone on December 20, 2016, 08:07:48 AM
DUP making a big deal about the walk out by the other parties.. Did the DUP want the other parties there and Foster as first minster so she would have parliamentary privilege?

Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: johnneycool on December 20, 2016, 09:13:56 AM
Foster has taken arrogance and misjudgement to new levels today.

Supported by her junior partners in SF who refused to kick the ball into an open goal. Arlene swatted SF aside in going alone with her statement with the same contempt and disregard that she showed for all today.

Eamonn McCann called SF out in demanding a new election and now he has something to continue to pick away at until an election occurs.  Even as only two voices in the assembly, PBP will now have something concrete to bring back to the electorate.

SF either duplicitous or incompetent in putting forward a motion for Foster to stand aside that did not met the basic requirements to be accepted and then refused to support the cross community motion asking that she should stand aside for 2 additional months than the one they had put further.

Shinners played that badly yesterday unless there's something we don't know..

Once Arlene was going ahead with the ministerial statement without wee Marty's backing the Shinners should have made it clear to Arlene that all bets were off in relation to the vote of no confidence, although it mightn't have made any difference with the cross community support requirement!!
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Avondhu star on December 20, 2016, 09:15:20 AM
The DUP treat the Shinners like the poodles they are fast becoming.
Correction. "poodles they have become"
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on December 20, 2016, 11:29:23 AM
While Foster and the DUP have come out of this debacle showing their true colours, others have come to the fore.

Stephen Nolan has continued to be the main force of opposition and thorn in the side of 'Marlene' as he has labelled the first ministers, much to Foster's irritation.  He was working on a strong base created by the BBC Spotlight team. Nolan has been at his best and showed he hasn't missed his editor who defected to the FM's huge PR team.  Note how often Foster referred to BBC yesterday and BBC meant Nolan.

Sam McBride, editor of the News Letter (main paper for the unionist voice) has also played a blinder with his analysis of the scandal's mechanics and continues to cut Foster to ribbons by focusing on her incompetence in managing the RHI scheme.  He has forensically compared her version of the scheme with the GB version which had controls. 8 pages of coverage today. Today http://www.newsletter.co.uk (http://www.newsletter.co.uk)

Alex Kane has consistently hammered the DUP and Foster despite that party being his original political base.  Newton Emerson can be variable and smug but his coverage of RHI has been good and has a very good piece in the Irish Times today http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/newton-emerson-arlene-foster-burns-in-fire-of-own-making-1.2911971 (http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/newton-emerson-arlene-foster-burns-in-fire-of-own-making-1.2911971) .  He has also provide one of the best quotes:  "Underclass unionists burn pallets, Lower middle-class unionists burn pellets."  Alison Morris from Irish News just held on to Alex Kane's coat tails and make no incisive contributions.

On a political front, Jim Allister continued as usual, slicing into the DUP; SDLP ran rings around SF but will need to keep it going; PBP will grow on the basis of this scandal and how SF have failed in the eyes of those will consider punishing them with a vote for PBP.  Conor Murphy has been pushed forward as the SF leader in waiting but he was strangled by the wavering of the SF leadership that ended up with them appearing in thrall to the DUP.  Just like old Ian of late, the SF leaders marched their men to the top of the hill and then scuttled back down again. SF have too many leaders and Adams should be pushed aside and kept from interfering.

Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Applesisapples on December 20, 2016, 12:07:54 PM
See SF are threatening to pull the plug, about time if they do. There is nothing for nationalists sharing power with the DUP. Better to have direct rule.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: TyroneOnlooker on December 20, 2016, 12:17:33 PM
Excellent analysis Take Your Points.

I'm interested in Sam McBride's take on all of this. To me his criticism has been surprising. Is it the case that the Newsletter has traditionally been a UUP paper and they are using the opportunity for some DUP bashing? Will we see a swing from DUP to UUP in next election because of this?

I for the life of me can't understand SF's position. Threatening grave consequences, walking out yesterday with the others only to abstain from the vote. Then to do nothing in the end. Bizarre.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on December 20, 2016, 12:31:41 PM
Is it better for SF to pull the plug or come out in a few months saying SF were able to claw back 200 million....and steady the ship? Genuine Question.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: theskull1 on December 20, 2016, 01:25:49 PM
Our RHI scheme 98% the same in it's wording to the scheme across the water
The 2% changes relate to our scheme not having cost controls. Deliberate? What do you think?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Applesisapples on December 20, 2016, 02:58:49 PM
Is it better for SF to pull the plug or come out in a few months saying SF were able to claw back 200 million....and steady the ship? Genuine Question.
Pull the plug, there is no reciprocation from the DUP.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: imtommygunn on December 20, 2016, 03:05:30 PM
Then SF will be the bad guys for bringing down Stormont though - which the DUP would love.

Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: armaghniac on December 20, 2016, 03:07:13 PM
Is it better for SF to pull the plug or come out in a few months saying SF were able to claw back 200 million....and steady the ship? Genuine Question.
Pull the plug, there is no reciprocation from the DUP.

I'm not among SFs greatest admirers, but some caution is warranted here. This is a old fashioned political racket, not something fundamental to the entire system and the DUP are getting plenty of pressure from the BBC, the Newsletter, Allister etc on their own side. People should judge SF not on this storm in a teacup but rather on their performance re Brexit. Direct rule would be an absolute disaster.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: seafoid on December 20, 2016, 03:12:07 PM
Why has there never been a catholic in charge of NI? Protestant hegemony/leadership ends up with corruption
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: muppet on December 20, 2016, 03:16:51 PM
Is it better for SF to pull the plug or come out in a few months saying SF were able to claw back 200 million....and steady the ship? Genuine Question.
Pull the plug, there is no reciprocation from the DUP.

I'm not among SFs greatest admirers, but some caution is warranted here. This is a old fashioned political racket, not something fundamental to the entire system and the DUP are getting plenty of pressure from the BBC, the Newsletter, Allister etc on their own side. People should judge SF not on this storm in a teacup but rather on their performance re Brexit. Direct rule would be an absolute disaster.

It is an amazing state of affairs that some Irish people are calling for it.

🎶 '..and if...you know...the history..' 🎶
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: imtommygunn on December 20, 2016, 03:42:05 PM
they are taking the piss out of us muppet and just creaming in money of the back of it between red sky, this, robinsons dealings etc.

Eventually something has to give. If someone from within stormont could stop them fair enough but they don't seem to be able to(or have the desire to).

Mind you I don't think anything will give this time either but we'll see.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 20, 2016, 03:50:13 PM
Sammy Wilson this morning saying the senior spads have no influence on ministers...what an absolute clown

If that is the case, why are they employed at all?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: muppet on December 20, 2016, 03:55:09 PM
they are taking the piss out of us muppet and just creaming in money of the back of it between red sky, this, robinsons dealings etc.

Eventually something has to give. If someone from within stormont could stop them fair enough but they don't seem to be able to(or have the desire to).

Mind you I don't think anything will give this time either but we'll see.

I agree, but the solution isn't to overreact. We see this all the time in the 26 with the extremely daft calls for people like Michael O'Leary, Jack Charlton or the celebrity du jour to be made Taoiseach.

I'm not sure what the solution is, maybe a general election? That way the various electorates might punish failure and incompetence. But in the 6 counties people vote along sectarian lines all the time, so who knows.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 20, 2016, 03:57:03 PM
they are taking the piss out of us muppet and just creaming in money of the back of it between red sky, this, robinsons dealings etc.

Eventually something has to give. If someone from within stormont could stop them fair enough but they don't seem to be able to(or have the desire to).

Mind you I don't think anything will give this time either but we'll see.

I agree, but the solution isn't to overreact. We see this all the time in the 26 with the extremely daft calls for people like Michael O'Leary, Jack Charlton or the celebrity du jour to be made Taoiseach.

I'm not sure what the solution is, maybe a general election? That way the various electorates might punish failure and incompetence. But in the 6 counties people vote along sectarian lines all the time, so who knows.
The DUP would still be the largest party. The most important thing come election time is not having SF as the biggest party.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Boycey on December 20, 2016, 03:59:57 PM
The Shinners part in this is incredible if you think about the stink Mary Lou and the like would be kicking up in the Dàil had this happened in the 26 counties..
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: muppet on December 20, 2016, 04:00:40 PM
they are taking the piss out of us muppet and just creaming in money of the back of it between red sky, this, robinsons dealings etc.

Eventually something has to give. If someone from within stormont could stop them fair enough but they don't seem to be able to(or have the desire to).

Mind you I don't think anything will give this time either but we'll see.

I agree, but the solution isn't to overreact. We see this all the time in the 26 with the extremely daft calls for people like Michael O'Leary, Jack Charlton or the celebrity du jour to be made Taoiseach.

I'm not sure what the solution is, maybe a general election? That way the various electorates might punish failure and incompetence. But in the 6 counties people vote along sectarian lines all the time, so who knows.
The DUP would still be the largest party. The most important thing come election time is not having SF as the biggest party.

That happens everywhere. Look at the Republicans electing Trump.

How would Arlene do tomorrow in a general election?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Applesisapples on December 20, 2016, 04:01:13 PM
they are taking the piss out of us muppet and just creaming in money of the back of it between red sky, this, robinsons dealings etc.

Eventually something has to give. If someone from within stormont could stop them fair enough but they don't seem to be able to(or have the desire to).

Mind you I don't think anything will give this time either but we'll see.

I agree, but the solution isn't to overreact. We see this all the time in the 26 with the extremely daft calls for people like Michael O'Leary, Jack Charlton or the celebrity du jour to be made Taoiseach.

I'm not sure what the solution is, maybe a general election? That way the various electorates might punish failure and incompetence. But in the 6 counties people vote along sectarian lines all the time, so who knows.
Sectarian politics in the North will only disappear when there is a nationalist majority. Political Unionists will never see us as equals until then.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: muppet on December 20, 2016, 04:01:44 PM
The Shinners part in this is incredible if you think about the stink Mary Lou and the like would be kicking up in the Dàil had this happened in the 26 counties..

That is because opposition is easy. Mary Lou kicks up stink, unless she is told to follow the party line. She would be the same in government.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on December 20, 2016, 04:19:08 PM
Is it better for SF to pull the plug or come out in a few months saying SF were able to claw back 200 million....and steady the ship? Genuine Question.
Pull the plug, there is no reciprocation from the DUP.

I'm not among SFs greatest admirers, but some caution is warranted here. This is a old fashioned political racket, not something fundamental to the entire system and the DUP are getting plenty of pressure from the BBC, the Newsletter, Allister etc on their own side. People should judge SF not on this storm in a teacup but rather on their performance re Brexit. Direct rule would be an absolute disaster.

It is an amazing state of affairs that some Irish people are calling for it.

🎶 '..and if...you know...the history..' 🎶


We have always been under direct rule. Stormont has just been managing the 6 counties on behalf of the British state
since the GFA was signed.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 20, 2016, 04:23:23 PM
I'm not sure what the solution is, maybe a general election?

Nah. No use.

What you'd need is a second house that is a check/balance to the idiots on the hill. I'd prefer if such a house was composed of members elected by professional bodies (for example, a few doctors nominated by the BMA, engineers from the iChemE, iMechE, ICE etc, etc, etc). Basically a house of "experts" across various fields that could propose legislation to the assembly or halt assembly legislation if it doesn't pass scrutiny.

The tribal idiots that are elected here are not fit for purpose. Same in Westminster and the House of Lords is negligible as a check. The Civil servants that surround Stormont should be gutted.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: imtommygunn on December 20, 2016, 04:44:03 PM
they are taking the piss out of us muppet and just creaming in money of the back of it between red sky, this, robinsons dealings etc.

Eventually something has to give. If someone from within stormont could stop them fair enough but they don't seem to be able to(or have the desire to).

Mind you I don't think anything will give this time either but we'll see.

I agree, but the solution isn't to overreact. We see this all the time in the 26 with the extremely daft calls for people like Michael O'Leary, Jack Charlton or the celebrity du jour to be made Taoiseach.

I'm not sure what the solution is, maybe a general election? That way the various electorates might punish failure and incompetence. But in the 6 counties people vote along sectarian lines all the time, so who knows.

No but she should be ousted muppet.If she doesn't go then it shows us how flawed the "institution" is as they can do what they want and suffer no consequences. If SF can't stand up to her and no one else can then fundamentally things clearly do not work. (which we have known for years anyway)

If she resigned you could live with it but i don't see much chance of that.

In real places a general election would sort it out as a last resort but sadly not here.

Dunno what the solution is. If only people would stop voting for these idiots  :(

I'm not sure it's even that much worse than red sky but I guess it's really the straw that broke the camels back with a lot of people.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on December 20, 2016, 05:11:32 PM
Now SF is warning it will cause an election if Arlene doesn't step aside.

An election would suit both SF and DUP as it would be based on 90 seats not 108.  One assembly seat less per UK parliamentary constituency. This would ensure that the opposition was be decreased and even less effective.  Allowing SF and DUP to work virtually unopposed.  The opposition parties took the final seat in most constituencies in the last election and these would be removed in the next election should it be next month or in another 4 years.

So, have a mock walkout of the executive in January supposedly because of Arlene's intransigence and cause an election that will wipe out the opposition that have begun to call out the ruling parties.  Result for SF and DUP.  Watch this space.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Orior on December 20, 2016, 05:23:49 PM
Now SF is warning it will cause an election if Arlene doesn't step aside.

An election would suit both SF and DUP as it would be based on 90 seats not 108.  One assembly seat less per UK parliamentary constituency. This would ensure that the opposition was be decreased and even less effective.  Allowing SF and DUP to work virtually unopposed.  The opposition parties took the final seat in most constituencies in the last election and these would be removed in the next election should it be next month or in another 4 years.

So, have a mock walkout of the executive in January supposedly because of Arlene's intransigence and cause an election that will wipe out the opposition that have begun to call out the ruling parties.  Result for SF and DUP.  Watch this space.

Okay, watching.... watching....  watching.... watching.... watching.... watching.... watching.... watching.... watching.... watching.... watching.... watching.... watching.... watching.... watching.... watching.... watching.... watching....
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: stew on December 20, 2016, 08:48:01 PM
they are taking the piss out of us muppet and just creaming in money of the back of it between red sky, this, robinsons dealings etc.

Eventually something has to give. If someone from within stormont could stop them fair enough but they don't seem to be able to(or have the desire to).

Mind you I don't think anything will give this time either but we'll see.

I agree, but the solution isn't to overreact. We see this all the time in the 26 with the extremely daft calls for people like Michael O'Leary, Jack Charlton or the celebrity du jour to be made Taoiseach.

I'm not sure what the solution is, maybe a general election? That way the various electorates might punish failure and incompetence. But in the 6 counties people vote along sectarian lines all the time, so who knows.
The DUP would still be the largest party. The most important thing come election time is not having SF as the biggest party.

That happens everywhere. Look at the Republicans electing Trump.

How would Arlene do tomorrow in a general election?

Alternatively look at the democrats trying to elect Clinton!
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: muppet on December 20, 2016, 10:46:39 PM
they are taking the piss out of us muppet and just creaming in money of the back of it between red sky, this, robinsons dealings etc.

Eventually something has to give. If someone from within stormont could stop them fair enough but they don't seem to be able to(or have the desire to).

Mind you I don't think anything will give this time either but we'll see.

I agree, but the solution isn't to overreact. We see this all the time in the 26 with the extremely daft calls for people like Michael O'Leary, Jack Charlton or the celebrity du jour to be made Taoiseach.

I'm not sure what the solution is, maybe a general election? That way the various electorates might punish failure and incompetence. But in the 6 counties people vote along sectarian lines all the time, so who knows.
The DUP would still be the largest party. The most important thing come election time is not having SF as the biggest party.

That happens everywhere. Look at the Republicans electing Trump.

How would Arlene do tomorrow in a general election?

Alternatively look at the democrats trying to elect Clinton!

Hillary would just have been a poor president, Trump is in a different category altogether. Bigly!
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on December 21, 2016, 12:32:25 AM
Whatever strategy SF are playing here it's a dangerous one. They are coming out of all of this as being completely spineless and subservient to their DUP masters. It's the usual story of you fenians should know your place and dare not question us. If SF do bring the house of cards down and force an election then based on current form they have the most to lose. The fleg lovers will keep voting DUP regardless of how big a mess they make of things or line their own pockets at their voters expense so long as it means keeping them'uns out. That's the No.1 priority in any election. For the vast majority of DUP voters I don't know what the DUP would have to do in order for them to even consider placing their X elsewhere for fear it might let them'uns in. It takes a hell of a lot less for SF voters to vote elsewhere or not bother their arse as we already saw in the last assembly elections. SF at present are doing a good job of ensuring that'll happen.

Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: armaghniac on December 21, 2016, 01:03:05 AM
Whatever strategy SF are playing here it's a dangerous one. They are coming out of all of this as being completely spineless and subservient to their DUP masters. It's the usual story of you fenians should know your place and dare not question us. If SF do bring the house of cards down and force an election then based on current form they have the most to lose. The fleg lovers will keep voting DUP regardless of how big a mess they make of things or line their own pockets at their voters expense so long as it means keeping them'uns out. That's the No.1 priority in any election. For the vast majority of DUP voters I don't know what the DUP would have to do in order for them to even consider placing their X elsewhere for fear it might let them'uns in. It takes a hell of a lot less for SF voters to vote elsewhere or not bother their arse as we already saw in the last assembly elections. SF at present are doing a good job of ensuring that'll happen.

A clear suggestion as to what exactly different SF should do would help. If they have an election and everyone ends up with a similar ratio of seats then what is the point? As I said before, Brexit is the issue.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Applesisapples on December 21, 2016, 08:49:47 AM
I supported and still do the GFA, but as a nationalist I have to say that the existence of Stormont is not a sacred cow for me. Unionists have not embraced the GFA or it's ideals. In fact the DUP take every opportunity to stick two fingers up to it. Stormont means more to Unionists than it does to most nationalists, so take it away from them. Direct rule with Dublin input can't be worse.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: johnneycool on December 21, 2016, 08:59:30 AM
I supported and still do the GFA, but as a nationalist I have to say that the existence of Stormont is not a sacred cow for me. Unionists have not embraced the GFA or it's ideals. In fact the DUP take every opportunity to stick two fingers up to it. Stormont means more to Unionists than it does to most nationalists, so take it away from them. Direct rule with Dublin input can't be worse.

Anyone know what plan B is if Stormont collapses?

Does your man Brokenshire assume full control?

Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: vallankumous on December 21, 2016, 09:40:44 AM

Anyone know what plan B is if Stormont collapses?

Does your man Brokenshire assume full control?

Election

There's a few things, firstly 'Stormont Collapsing' is not the right description.
What we would be looking at here is The Government Collapsing. Two different things. The institutions are still standing while the and the election of a new government with a new mandate would move into these institutions and carry on.
Should Stormont Collapse it would be very different. That would spell the end of the GFA and probably return to Direct Rule from London. However, I don't think this we are anywhere close to that. regardless of our anger there are no party that want that. No one is calling for it as they know it means, loss of local power here and a headache in London. If it were the case that a new Government couldn't be formed (very unlikely) I'd imagine a temporary suspension of the Institutions with a the Minister for State overseeing the institutions until a time a Government can be formed.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on December 21, 2016, 09:56:51 AM
I supported and still do the GFA, but as a nationalist I have to say that the existence of Stormont is not a sacred cow for me. Unionists have not embraced the GFA or it's ideals. In fact the DUP take every opportunity to stick two fingers up to it. Stormont means more to Unionists than it does to most nationalists, so take it away from them. Direct rule with Dublin input can't be worse.

I'd agree with that. Stormont at the minute is effectively a throwback to the "good old" days when Unionists ruled the roost. Not sure if direct rule is any better as the DUP hold a few cards with the Tories in Westminster.

Either way, we in the North are all f**ked.

Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: vallankumous on December 21, 2016, 10:03:13 AM


I'd agree with that. Stormont at the minute is effectively a throwback to the "good old" days when Unionists ruled the roost. Not sure if direct rule is any better as the DUP hold a few cards with the Tories in Westminster.

Either way, we in the North are all f**ked.

Perhaps you don't remember the good old days but there is no comparison.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: armaghniac on December 21, 2016, 10:04:26 AM
The DUP can act the bollix because they can make the numbers for a petition of concern from within their own numbers. This likely will not be true after the next election.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: imtommygunn on December 21, 2016, 10:16:24 AM
The DUP can act the bollix because they can make the numbers for a petition of concern from within their own numbers. This likely will not be true after the next election.

I wish I had your confidence here.

What would it actually take to collapse the thing and get an election called though? Walkouts? Can someone propose an election? Not sure how it works.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Applesisapples on December 21, 2016, 10:21:35 AM
The DUP can act the bollix because they can make the numbers for a petition of concern from within their own numbers. This likely will not be true after the next election.

I wish I had your confidence here.

What would it actually take to collapse the thing and get an election called though? Walkouts? Can someone propose an election? Not sure how it works.
What will actually happen here is as nationalists creep towards a majority, split as is usual for us between 2 or 3 parties the unionist electorate will row in behind the DUP to retain the largest party and FM post. It would take a sea change in the unionist electorate for anything else to happen.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: vallankumous on December 21, 2016, 10:26:03 AM

I wish I had your confidence here.

What would it actually take to collapse the thing and get an election called though? Walkouts? Can someone propose an election? Not sure how it works.

It would take FM or DFM to resign and fail to elect a new FM & DFM.
Example, if McGuinness resigns they will need to be a new Joint first Minister elected and if SF refused to support a DUP candidate (DUP would prob propose Foster again) it would force a new election. However, if the DUP decided to propose someone else, this might stabilize the First Minister Dept and they'd carry on.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: imtommygunn on December 21, 2016, 10:29:05 AM
The only thing is the UUP and DUP are not on terms so that should create an issue in places like east belfast and the other seat they won with working between themselves (was it Elliot won that?). I can't see that happen again so hopefully should sway a few seats away from DUP. They will still hold far too many seats though. If Armaghniac is correct and they at least get enough votes to be below the petition of concern level that would at least be one step in the right direction.

i wouldn't hold my breath on anything more....

Cheers vallankumous. That answers it.



Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on December 21, 2016, 10:53:10 AM


I'd agree with that. Stormont at the minute is effectively a throwback to the "good old" days when Unionists ruled the roost. Not sure if direct rule is any better as the DUP hold a few cards with the Tories in Westminster.

Either way, we in the North are all f**ked.

Perhaps you don't remember the good old days but there is no comparison.

Yes I remember alright. Unionists riding rough shod over Nationalists at every opportunity. Some things never change.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: vallankumous on December 21, 2016, 11:23:01 AM


Yes I remember alright. Unionists riding rough shod over Nationalists at every opportunity. Some things never change.

It's was not Unionists as they are today. it was the State and all it's tentacles. You can't compare the Power unionism had then with now and how it was administrated. The Unionism of today is merely a symbolic reminder of that. There is no Comparison to Unionism abuse of power today as it was then. If we keep trying to draw comparisons we will create a bogey man of the Unionist state of the past and not even history will hold them to account.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: muppet on December 21, 2016, 12:09:12 PM
Whatever strategy SF are playing here it's a dangerous one. They are coming out of all of this as being completely spineless and subservient to their DUP masters. It's the usual story of you fenians should know your place and dare not question us. If SF do bring the house of cards down and force an election then based on current form they have the most to lose. The fleg lovers will keep voting DUP regardless of how big a mess they make of things or line their own pockets at their voters expense so long as it means keeping them'uns out. That's the No.1 priority in any election. For the vast majority of DUP voters I don't know what the DUP would have to do in order for them to even consider placing their X elsewhere for fear it might let them'uns in. It takes a hell of a lot less for SF voters to vote elsewhere or not bother their arse as we already saw in the last assembly elections. SF at present are doing a good job of ensuring that'll happen.

A clear suggestion as to what exactly different SF should do would help. If they have an election and everyone ends up with a similar ratio of seats then what is the point? As I said before, Brexit is the issue.

The point would be the removal of Foster.

Would that happen in the event of a GE?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: theskull1 on December 21, 2016, 12:31:58 PM
Voter turnout would be an all time low but the carve up of seats would essentially be the same (the electorate has no faith in any of them) and the DUP would feel vindicated and emboldened to keep keepin on

It would be the perfect smoke screen for the DUP
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on December 21, 2016, 01:48:24 PM
An election in early 2017 is too big a risk for SF.  The best they can hope for is the same result as before, the worst is the shedding of a lot of votes (which is much more likely IMHO).  Believe me, I haven't spoken to one person from a CNR background who thinks SF have come out of this well.  Worse than that, credibility in the "institutions" is virtually non-existent. 

Wrap the whole pantomime up and kick the ball back to the Brits!
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: haranguerer on December 21, 2016, 01:53:04 PM
Please don't start nor encourage a CRN acronym - Jamie Brysons PUL is bad enough ffs
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: OgraAnDun on December 21, 2016, 01:53:41 PM
Please don't start nor encourage a CRN acronym - Jamie Brysons PUL is bad enough ffs

+1
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on December 21, 2016, 02:05:35 PM
Please don't start nor encourage a CRN acronym - Jamie Brysons PUL is bad enough ffs

It's CNR and has been widely used in the past...
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: armaghniac on December 21, 2016, 02:11:01 PM
Voter turnout would be an all time low but the carve up of seats would essentially be the same (the electorate has no faith in any of them) and the DUP would feel vindicated and emboldened to keep keepin on

It would be the perfect smoke screen for the DUP

If nationalists cannot be arsed voting in the context of Brexit reinforcing partition, entirely over their heads,  then perhaps they deserve what they get. Any election should be a GFA pact on principles about agreement on crossborder changes, anyone from SF to the Greens should be able to sign up to this, which disagreeing on other issues. Sadly, the UU have proven to be basically the DUP as they identified Brexit as a threat to peace, but voted for it anyway without any special provision for NI. PBP are just idiots who opposed Brexit because SF supported it.

Brexit needs a new GFA, with new all Ireland bodies to replace things previously coordinated by the EU and a new copper tight agreement to stop the British going off on a solo run again. Obviously, some changes to the assembly is possible with this as well as things that were long fingered or overlooked before.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: haranguerer on December 21, 2016, 02:21:13 PM
Please don't start nor encourage a CRN acronym - Jamie Brysons PUL is bad enough ffs

It's CNR and has been widely used in the past...

I've never heard of it and always cringed at the broad brush lumping in of people to one bracket a la PUL - it was clever enough of the flag protesters as they were trying to form associations, be seen as legitimately representing a community, and don't mind sectarian headcounts in general, but I'd rather that was kept to a minimum, and I'd certainly resent someone trying to do the same to me.

Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: muppet on December 21, 2016, 02:23:06 PM
An election in early 2017 is too big a risk for SF.  The best they can hope for is the same result as before, the worst is the shedding of a lot of votes (which is much more likely IMHO).  Believe me, I haven't spoken to one person from a CNR background who thinks SF have come out of this well.  Worse than that, credibility in the "institutions" is virtually non-existent. 

Wrap the whole pantomime up and kick the ball back to the Brits!

Really?

Boris Johnson, Theresa May and co are better?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: LeoMc on December 21, 2016, 02:32:35 PM
Voter turnout would be an all time low but the carve up of seats would essentially be the same (the electorate has no faith in any of them) and the DUP would feel vindicated and emboldened to keep keepin on

It would be the perfect smoke screen for the DUP
With the reduction to 5 MLA's per constituency there would need to be fresh vote management strategies. Just looking at the 18 candidates who gained the 6 seats in the last election we would see SF, SDLP & DUP lose 5 MLA's each with PBP, Alliance and UUP losing 1 each.
Prominant losers would be Robin Newton, Nicola Mallon, Daithi McKay, Eamon McCann & John O'Dowd.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: armaghniac on December 21, 2016, 02:38:15 PM
Voter turnout would be an all time low but the carve up of seats would essentially be the same (the electorate has no faith in any of them) and the DUP would feel vindicated and emboldened to keep keepin on

It would be the perfect smoke screen for the DUP
With the reduction to 5 MLA's per constituency there would need to be fresh vote management strategies. Just looking at the 18 candidates who gained the 6 seats in the last election we would see SF, SDLP & DUP lose 5 MLA's each with PBP, Alliance and UUP losing 1 each.
Prominant losers would be Robin Newton, Nicola Mallon, Daithi McKay, Eamon McCann & John O'Dowd.

In the short term the reduction in seats is the change. In the medium term the boundaries are changing and this combined with the reduction in seats might have a different dynamic.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on December 21, 2016, 05:21:37 PM
Please don't start nor encourage a CRN acronym - Jamie Brysons PUL is bad enough ffs

It's CNR and has been widely used in the past...

I've never heard of it and always cringed at the broad brush lumping in of people to one bracket a la PUL - it was clever enough of the flag protesters as they were trying to form associations, be seen as legitimately representing a community, and don't mind sectarian headcounts in general, but I'd rather that was kept to a minimum, and I'd certainly resent someone trying to do the same to me.

Jamie Bryson did not coin the term PUL, it's been about for 15 years or so.  These terms are widely used in statistical and data analysis around voting patterns/economic impact etc...which is what I do for a day job.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on December 21, 2016, 05:25:02 PM
Voter turnout would be an all time low but the carve up of seats would essentially be the same (the electorate has no faith in any of them) and the DUP would feel vindicated and emboldened to keep keepin on

It would be the perfect smoke screen for the DUP
With the reduction to 5 MLA's per constituency there would need to be fresh vote management strategies. Just looking at the 18 candidates who gained the 6 seats in the last election we would see SF, SDLP & DUP lose 5 MLA's each with PBP, Alliance and UUP losing 1 each.
Prominant losers would be Robin Newton, Nicola Mallon, Daithi McKay, Eamon McCann & John O'Dowd.

McKay went earlier this year...but i take your point, the reduction to 90 MLAs (which is a good thing) has to be factored in.  To be honest if there were an election in say February 2017 I'd expect a fairly low turnout.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on December 21, 2016, 05:27:48 PM
An election in early 2017 is too big a risk for SF.  The best they can hope for is the same result as before, the worst is the shedding of a lot of votes (which is much more likely IMHO).  Believe me, I haven't spoken to one person from a CNR background who thinks SF have come out of this well.  Worse than that, credibility in the "institutions" is virtually non-existent. 

Wrap the whole pantomime up and kick the ball back to the Brits!

Really?

Boris Johnson, Theresa May and co are better?

Certainly no worse.  Sadly I've lost the little bit of confidence I had in the "institutions" (well named)
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: red hander on December 21, 2016, 05:28:17 PM
An election in early 2017 is too big a risk for SF.  The best they can hope for is the same result as before, the worst is the shedding of a lot of votes (which is much more likely IMHO).  Believe me, I haven't spoken to one person from a CNR background who thinks SF have come out of this well.  Worse than that, credibility in the "institutions" is virtually non-existent. 

Wrap the whole pantomime up and kick the ball back to the Brits!

Really?

Boris Johnson, Theresa May and co are better?

Boris Karloff, Brian May and co would be better than those clowns in Stormont... flatten the whole shebang and turn it into a park
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: muppet on December 21, 2016, 05:49:52 PM
An election in early 2017 is too big a risk for SF.  The best they can hope for is the same result as before, the worst is the shedding of a lot of votes (which is much more likely IMHO).  Believe me, I haven't spoken to one person from a CNR background who thinks SF have come out of this well.  Worse than that, credibility in the "institutions" is virtually non-existent. 

Wrap the whole pantomime up and kick the ball back to the Brits!

Really?

Boris Johnson, Theresa May and co are better?

Boris Karloff, Brian May and co would be better than those clowns in Stormont... flatten the whole shebang and turn it into a park

Brian May would be a cool First Minister.

And the DUP would love the Queen angle!

More seriously, how does Dublin & London tweak things to force them to cop on? Ending devolution would surely be a backward step.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on December 21, 2016, 06:12:49 PM
As I have previously mentioned, Moy Park are going to be a big name in all of this from what I can see.

At the end of 2013 they launched a grower expansion project aiming to build 250 new broiler houses.
By October 2014, the 100th house was been built, and they hoped to have the rest either built or in
progress by the end of 2015.

It just so happened that in early October Arlene Foster and Simon Hamilton launched an
"Agri-food loan scheme" in conjunction with the major banks. The only people allowed to
apply in the 1st stage of the scheme were poultry farmers !! 
And in March 2014 the 1st of many loans were approved. The ball was rolling.......

First Trust Bank set up a leading scheme for Moy Park farmers which expanded to incorporate biomass energy heating systems.

They seen the benefits as well !!

Moy Park also said they worked closely with the Planning Service and the Northern Ireland Environment Agency, 
resulting in fast-tracking the planning approval for farmers.


Going by Moy Park figures, 280 broiler houses had installed pellet burners by the 1st quarter of 2015.
The RHI scheme without the cap ran for a further 6 months, and for a further 3/4 months with the cap in place.

So, if we go by Moy Parks numbers, we have 250 houses built in a 2 year period, and built right before the RHI 
scheme ended, with the majority getting in on the no cap end no doubt.......

How many were approved in the final 10 weeks during the spike?

And how many before the end of the scheme in February?

200 houses earning £7,000 per year on the no cap RHI scheme would earn £28 million over the 20 years.......

The 400 we know of that have been installed by the end of March 2015 are already costing us £56 million over 20 years.

How many more houses apart from the new ones signed up before it closed overall earlier this year?

They have 800 growers in the north, so it's fair to say the majority of them were in on this scheme.

I'd hazard a low guess that Moy Park broiler houses are costing us in excess of £100 million as it stands.....

And if Stormont think they are going to cut that money, they may have to deal with Moy Park's law firm,
who are none other than Tughans !!!!  Remember their involvement with Nama?

Tughans are actively involved in the Renewable Energy sector, advising businesses on issues such as funding
or financial incentives for renewables projects and planning applications.
They also sponsor the annual Action Renewables energy awards.

To me, the Moy Park factor is going to go a long way in determining how the end will result will look like
in relation to RHI. Foster has a lot riding on this, and you can be sure a lot of those farmers who took out
the loans and installed what they thought was going to be a money making system are going to be very angry.

I expect some kind of agreement is going to be reached in January, Foster will step aside for while, a non
judicial inquiry will be launched and as good a whitewash as possible will be the outcome.

Nothing will change in the long run as both parties have 4 years ahead if they can keep this together.
An election at the moment is not what they want.

It sure will be interesting to see how this pans out in the long run.....
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: armaghniac on December 21, 2016, 06:44:20 PM
If Moy Park are getting a huge whack of money from the government, is this not illegal state aid, relative to other producers? 
A bit of a subsidy for renewables would be fair enough, but getting more than cost of the fuel is not legitimate. Surely the whole deal could be declared illegal and so get the taxpayer off the hook.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on December 21, 2016, 06:48:38 PM
If Moy Park are getting a huge whack of money from the government, is this not illegal state aid, relative to other producers? 
A bit of a subsidy for renewables would be fair enough, but getting more than cost of the fuel is not legitimate. Surely the whole deal could be declared illegal and so get the taxpayer off the hook.

This RHI money will be claimed by individual growers. Moy Park have received money via Invest NI and such.
Jonathan Bell announced a £1.4 million grant to them back in February of this year. They have also got further
millions when Arlene wa at the helm in DETI.

Legally speaking, I couldn't comment, but you can bet Tughans will have something to say !!
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 21, 2016, 07:34:01 PM
I wonder if things would change much if the politicians were to be held personally liable for misuse of public money.

Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Orior on December 21, 2016, 07:47:39 PM
Experts tell us to think twice when something sounds too good to be true. Well, getting paid to heat your home is good and true. Once again, the so-called experts have got it wrong.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: muppet on December 21, 2016, 08:05:16 PM
I wonder if things would change much if the politicians were to be held personally liable for misuse of public money.

It would.

They would immediately legislate to undo that liability.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: theskull1 on December 21, 2016, 11:52:43 PM
Politicians have been diddling the ordinary tax payer for donkeys

Selling off government land for a pittance
Selling of government resources for a pittance
Selling off government infrastructure (telecoms/post office/trains etc) for a pittance
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on December 22, 2016, 12:18:36 AM
‘SINN FEIN SHOWED THEIR TEETH – THEN PUT THEM AWAY…’

By Brian Rowan

When you’re explaining, you’re losing – and Sinn Fein has been doing a lot of explaining since the farce, the fiasco and the fallout at Stormont on Monday.

It had created a mood and an expectation before then.

Martin McGuinness had a phone conversation with Arlene Foster – telling the First Minister that the credibility of the political institutions was being undermined “by the serious and ongoing allegations surrounding the design, operation, abuse and ending of the Renewable Heating Incentive scheme”.

He said she should “stand aside from the role of First Minister” while there was an investigation, later explaining that this was “friendly advice” declaring it was what he would do himself in parallel circumstances.

That advice was immediately dismissed. There was a DUP statement: “The First Minister will not be stepping aside, but instead is focused on ensuring the full facts about this issue emerge and proposals are brought forward which can make a significant reduction in the future financial burden the Executive would face. The First Minister does not take her instructions from Sinn Fein but from the electorate.”

There was a speech from Gerry Adams on Saturday, then more statements from Sinn Fein on Sunday warning the DUP of consequences if there was a solo run on this issue. It was made clear and later repeated that a planned statement by Arlene Foster on Monday did not have the authority or approval of the Deputy First Minister.

The Foster statement went ahead, the implications of that captured in a tweet from Ciaran Kearney.

http://eamonnmallie.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/img_8523.jpg

Step away from the pantomime and the shambles of this Stormont day and from all of the fallout from the RHI scheme, and, within that tweet, you arrive at serious questions about what is meant to be the joined-up nature of new politics.

It did not look new on Monday, but old. Alliance leader Naomi Long described “a major challenge to these institutions…to power sharing”.
There is a spotlight on Speaker Robin Newton.

Mike Nesbitt has written to him, that letter including these lines: “I regret to say you have lost the confidence of the Ulster Unionist Party. On that basis, may I respectfully urge you to use the break to reflect on whether you are best placed to lead the Assembly in 2017.”

Since Monday, Sinn Fein has been explaining; explaining why it did not support the SDLP motion of no confidence in the First Minister, toughening up its words, speaking publicly in the media and internally to its membership about a motion it will bring forward in the New Year.

When you’re explaining, you’re losing.

The talk of “grave consequences” suggested much, but changed nothing – certainly not yet.

And this is not the first time. Look at a pattern – the dragging out of the devolution of policing and justice powers, the Maze/Long Kesh row, welfare reform, not being able to get movement on an Irish Language Act or on a process to address the past. Sinn Fein have shown their teeth and then put them away.

Given the build up – the phone call, the speech, the statements – Monday closed with a feeling of false alarm and crying wolf. The DUP did things its way.

Now, there is talk of “wait and see” that the grave consequences have not gone away.

Explaining, explaining – more explaining and now the waiting for the New Year.

To this point, Arlene Foster has given no indication that she is willing to step aside.

So, does Sinn Fein really want to push the nuclear button – a McGuinness resignation that could force an early election?

Or is it a move towards another negotiation – and perhaps a ‘Fresher’ Start?

Let’s see what January brings

http://eamonnmallie.com/2016/12/sinn-fein-showed-their-teeth-then-put-them-away-by-brian-rowan/
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Hereiam on December 22, 2016, 07:13:58 AM
http://fermanaghherald.com/2014/10/committed-to-fermanagh-says-business-person-of-the-year/ (http://fermanaghherald.com/2014/10/committed-to-fermanagh-says-business-person-of-the-year/)
Funny ole world isn't it.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: haranguerer on December 22, 2016, 09:32:44 AM
Experts tell us to think twice when something sounds too good to be true. Well, getting paid to heat your home is good and true. Once again, the so-called experts have got it wrong.

By telling you to think twice?  ???
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Dire Ear on December 22, 2016, 01:34:54 PM
Irish language will be the bargaining tool,  to keep SF onboard
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on December 22, 2016, 01:44:13 PM
Irish language will be the bargaining tool,  to keep SF onboard

Casement Park is high on the agenda for Paul Givan......

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/dup-minister-paul-givan-i-will-do-all-in-my-power-to-see-casement-rebuilt-35313648.html
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on December 22, 2016, 03:23:40 PM
Irish language will be the bargaining tool,  to keep SF onboard

Casement Park is high on the agenda for Paul Givan......

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/dup-minister-paul-givan-i-will-do-all-in-my-power-to-see-casement-rebuilt-35313648.html

Says it all about the incompetence and lack of performance of SF ministers when DUP MLA Givan gets Casement rebuilt and Ní Chuilín floundered around for a few years blaming everyone else for her failures.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on December 22, 2016, 03:28:05 PM
Went past a business on the A5 well after closing hours and its wood pellet boiler was pumping out smoke at full tilt, many hours after closing time, keeping the premises well heated when no one was present, making a full contribution to global warming from its eco boiler and probably making more profit than the business itself.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: JohnDenver on December 22, 2016, 03:32:34 PM
Irish language will be the bargaining tool,  to keep SF onboard

Casement Park is high on the agenda for Paul Givan......

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/dup-minister-paul-givan-i-will-do-all-in-my-power-to-see-casement-rebuilt-35313648.html

Says it all about the incompetence and lack of performance of SF ministers when DUP MLA Givan gets Casement rebuilt and Ní Chuilín floundered around for a few years blaming everyone else for her failures.

Paul Givan single handily saves the Casement project.... ::)
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: tiempo on December 22, 2016, 04:27:03 PM
Sure to be outed soon enough, the CCMS applied for RHI grants to put boilers in schools and were rejected, hundreds of Protestant school applications approved.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Minder on December 22, 2016, 05:07:43 PM
Sure to be outed soon enough, the CCMS applied for RHI grants to put boilers in schools and were rejected, hundreds of Protestant school applications approved.

So they were rejected because they were Catholics ?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on December 22, 2016, 07:00:16 PM
Catholics don't burn pallets.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: StGallsGAA on December 22, 2016, 07:13:09 PM
Jamie Bryson has named the DUP  farmer set to coin in cool £1M through 5 incinerators installed in empty sheds running 24/7 burning over £1000 worth of pellets a week.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: armaghniac on December 22, 2016, 07:16:57 PM
Catholics don't burn pallets.

This scheme was not intended to provide a warm house for Catholics.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: skeog on December 22, 2016, 07:50:43 PM
Is Garvaghey burning pellets,hope they are bit of profit for CB.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: stew on December 22, 2016, 09:29:12 PM
Jamie Bryson has named the DUP  farmer set to coin in cool £1M through 5 incinerators installed in empty sheds running 24/7 burning over £1000 worth of pellets a week.

I hope the b**tard loses his shirt, he can blame that surfboard foster if he does!
Title: cnc7594
Post by: FermGael on December 22, 2016, 10:03:38 PM
Is Garvaghey burning pellets,hope they are bit of profit for CB.
Bah.
They are hoping the concrete sets round the windmill after 28 days
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: hardstation on December 22, 2016, 10:07:49 PM
Is Garvaghey burning pellets,hope they are bit of profit for CB.
They'd have wanted to fcuk a few more in the burner, the day I was in it.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on December 22, 2016, 10:22:16 PM
Is Garvaghey burning pellets,hope they are bit of profit for CB.
They'd have wanted to fcuk a few more in the burner, the day I was in it.

Garvaghey not on the RHI scheme, and from any searches I have done, no GAA club seems to have availed of the scheme.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: red hander on December 22, 2016, 10:26:36 PM
Sure to be outed soon enough, the CCMS applied for RHI grants to put boilers in schools and were rejected, hundreds of Protestant school applications approved.

So they were rejected because they were Catholics ?

Wouldn't be a big surprise, would it?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Minder on December 22, 2016, 11:06:29 PM
Sure to be outed soon enough, the CCMS applied for RHI grants to put boilers in schools and were rejected, hundreds of Protestant school applications approved.

So they were rejected because they were Catholics ?

Wouldn't be a big surprise, would it?

It's difficult for a government department to do nowadays, I know some like to get on like it's still the 70s, it isn't.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on December 22, 2016, 11:09:30 PM
Is Garvaghey burning pellets,hope they are bit of profit for CB.

Not as far up the road as Garvaghey.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: tiempo on December 22, 2016, 11:21:15 PM
Sure to be outed soon enough, the CCMS applied for RHI grants to put boilers in schools and were rejected, hundreds of Protestant school applications approved.

So they were rejected because they were Catholics ?

Wouldn't be a big surprise, would it?

It's difficult for a government department to do nowadays, I know some like to get on like it's still the 70s, it isn't.

They were able to introduce the scheme in the first place and DUP donors are benefitting from it right left and centre, with that in mind what is difficult to do nowadays exactly?

Seeing as you brought the 70s up, there is a striking parallel, its called sectarianism and abuse of power.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: stew on December 22, 2016, 11:49:36 PM
Is Garvaghey burning pellets,hope they are bit of profit for CB.
They'd have wanted to fcuk a few more in the burner, the day I was in it.

Garvaghey not on the RHI scheme, and from any searches I have done, no GAA club seems to have availed of the scheme.

First thing I checked too, Motherfoster rolled this bad boy out for her party, well informed party supporters benefited, bitch needs to resign asap!
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on December 23, 2016, 01:01:40 AM
Having read a blog on Slugger, I came across a link to a NI Audit report that set out how much
a biomass pellet burner could return running 24 hours a day in a poultry house.

https://sluggerotoole.com/2016/12/20/offering-hard-pressed-businesses-the-chance-of-zero-cost-heat-for-20-years/

A staggering £863,580 over 20 years. 

When you consider that a new broiler house costs £320,000, is it any wonder people got on board
to build a broiler house with a wood pellet burner seeing as they could milk a possible £500k in return?

Sure only 6 months before Foster and Invest NI launched a lending scheme to co incide with the announcement
of Moy Parks expansion plans in late 2013, the Ulster Farmers Union had this to say about a meeting with Moy Park:

UFU Deputy President Ian Marshall said they had been ‘very blunt’ at the meeting with Moy Park this week.

“Growers are operating at a substantial loss and the situation is totally unsustainable,” he continued.

“The problem has become cumulatively worse over the past few months and this is much more than a short term tough spell.

UFU members, who are new and existing growers supplying both the Ballymena and Dungannon factories,
are telling us that there is a fundamental supply chain issue which we believe needs to be addressed urgently. 

The latest growers’ returns were extremely disappointing and farmers are not only expressing concern for their businesses
but also for the wellbeing of their families during this stressful and uncertain time."

www.farminglife.com/farming-news/union-meets-moy-park-on-broiler-concerns-1-4905668

So, from this in early 2013, to 250 new houses built and one success story after another
with new growers before the end of 2015.

Banks lending money hand over fist.

Sure why wouldn't they when the RHI scheme was guaranteed from Whitehall for 20 years,
and the loans were based on future incomes, with some guaranteed from Invest IN?

82% return on your investment if you left the heat on 24 hours a day.

A home run if ever there was one........

Another mini property bubble......

So, to revise my figures based on the 400 poultry houses we know of, generating a return of a conservative £30,000 per year:

£240 million over 20 years  !!!

What a scheme eh?

Instead of raising the price of chicken to the consumer, a scheme was used to subsidize the cost
of producing cheap chickens, courtesy of the taxpaying consumer.


Here are the official figures from the audit.......


In some cases such as in the Poultry industry, it is possible that a biomass boiler could
be used almost all of the time in order to replace an oil boiler. In an extreme case of the
boiler being operated 24 hours a day and only being stopped for servicing, as shown in
Table 4 below, very large profits could be realised, even though the use of the biomass
boiler would still be in line with the spirit of the scheme.

Table 4: Biomass boiler used 24 hours a day all year round, replacing an oil boiler

                                                                                  N Ireland           Great Britain
                                                                                         £                        £
Annual profit by using biomass                                      43,179              9,621
Profit over 20 years                                                       863,580         192,420
Capital costs (including replacement every 5 years)    (126,000)      (126,000)
Net Profit over 20 years                                                  737,580          66,420
Annual return on investment                                                  82%              7%


Page 110

https://www.niauditoffice.gov.uk/sites/niao/files/media-files/Final%20CAG%20Report%2028%20June%202016%20%28after%20typo%20correction%29.pdf
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: haranguerer on December 23, 2016, 08:56:53 AM
Is Garvaghey burning pellets,hope they are bit of profit for CB.
They'd have wanted to fcuk a few more in the burner, the day I was in it.

Garvaghey not on the RHI scheme, and from any searches I have done, no GAA club seems to have availed of the scheme.

First thing I checked too, Motherfoster rolled this bad boy out for her party, well informed party supporters benefited, bitch needs to resign asap!

The ra only got away with £26m  ;D
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on December 23, 2016, 12:08:18 PM
RHI scandal: 'Hundreds' abused flawed heating scheme

Hundreds of people have abused the renewable heat incentive scheme, Finance Minister Máirtín Ó Muilleoir has claimed.

He told BBC Radio Ulster that hundreds of people were "using heat in an ineligible way".

"Anyone heating an empty shed has been stealing public money," he added.

The way the Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI) scheme was set up meant the subsidies offered were greater than the cost of the fuels.

The green scheme was set up by the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment under the stewardship of now First Minister Arlene Foster in 2012 to encourage businesses and other non-domestic users to move from using fossil fuels to renewable heating systems.
In what has been dubbed the "cash-for-ash" scandal, the flawed scheme meant users could legitimately earn more cash the more fuel they burned.

It has been estimated the botched scheme will cost the taxpayer £400m over its 20-year lifetime.

But on Friday, Mr Ó Muilleoir said: "We have to be very honest with people and I have heard figures being bandied around about the extent of this scandal and challenge to government.

"I know the figure £400m has been used but this year we've estimated for £30m and over 20 years that's the best part of £600m."

An independent audit found issues at half of the 300 installations inspected - 14 of which fell into the most serious category where fraud was suspected and payments to five of these have been suspended.

But the finance minister says the number is much higher.

"The evidence is the payments," he said. "If this was used in an eligible way, we would not be using so much heat."

He said "some people are earning £40,000 a year from this scheme" and those "gaming the system" should be removed immediately.

Mr Ó Muilleoir said while the British government was committed to covering half the scheme's costs, there was an "additional challenge" if the scheme was not being used "for the purposes for which it was intended".

The threat the scheme posed to the budget was "enormous", he said, adding that his department had struggled to get all the RHI information from the Department for the Economy.

Renewable Heat Incentive in numbers
1,946 applications were approved under the non-domestic RHI scheme - a 98% approval rate
984 were received in just three months - September to November 2015 - after officials announced plans to cut the subsidy but before the change took effect

The assembly's Public Accounts Committee was told that a subsequent independent audit had found issues at half of the 300 installations inspected

14 of those fell into the most serious category where fraud was suspected
Payments to five of these 14 sites have been suspended

The scandal has caused political upheaval in Stormont, with calls for Mrs Foster to stand aside while an investigation is carried out.
Last week, Jonathan Bell, a former enterprise minister, broke ranks with his Democratic Unionist Party colleagues and made a number of sensational claims about how the controversial scheme was handled.

Earlier this week, Mrs Foster, the leader of the Democratic Unionist Party, survived a vote of no-confidence. On Monday, opposition politicians staged a walk-out protest when Mrs Foster started to make her statement on RHI.

Assembly Speaker Robin Newton has faced criticism after allowing his party leader to continue and during his Radio Ulster interview, Mr Ó Muilleoir said the speaker "brings baggage" to his work.

"I see no future for Robin in that job in 2017," he said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38414486
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Minder on December 23, 2016, 12:14:30 PM
I didn't know the Executive cared as much about wasting public funds
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: red hander on December 23, 2016, 05:06:08 PM
Is Garvaghey burning pellets,hope they are bit of profit for CB.
They'd have wanted to fcuk a few more in the burner, the day I was in it.

Garvaghey not on the RHI scheme, and from any searches I have done, no GAA club seems to have availed of the scheme.

First thing I checked too, Motherfoster rolled this bad boy out for her party, well informed party supporters benefited, bitch needs to resign asap!

They'll need to carry her out kicking and screaming... yer man from the Green Party, Agnew, has been making some interesting observations about how incompetent she has been in every ministerial post she's had. Spose it just goes to prove the old adage, shit really does float
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: imtommygunn on December 23, 2016, 05:17:56 PM
She's going nowhere i suspect. So brasen and arrogant she thinks she is above it.

Title: cnc7594
Post by: FermGael on December 23, 2016, 08:14:37 PM
Irish language will be the bargaining tool,  to keep SF onboard

Really........

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38422550   (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38422550)

Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on December 24, 2016, 01:10:59 AM
Excellent article by Steven Agnew MLA from the Green Party on the level of incompetence shown by Foster in her various ministries that should have ruled her out of being FM:

https://sluggerotoole.com/2016/12/23/soapbox-arlene-foster-was-never-a-suitable-first-minister/ (https://sluggerotoole.com/2016/12/23/soapbox-arlene-foster-was-never-a-suitable-first-minister/)
Title: Re: cnc7594
Post by: Applesisapples on December 24, 2016, 10:18:40 AM
Irish language will be the bargaining tool,  to keep SF onboard

Really........

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38422550   (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38422550)
Once again goes to prove that the DUP do not give two fcuks about their nationalist neighbours. SF and the SDLP should pull Stormont down. No direct rule minister would dare pull funding for Irish and you'd get an Irish Language Act. I have said time and again that the Political Unionism has no interest in equality.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on December 24, 2016, 11:07:32 AM
Poultry sector expansion fuelled by more than chicken feed
     
JOHN MANLEY

24 December, 2016 01:00

The Renewable Heat Incentive coincided with an unprecedented expansion of north's poultry sector driven by multinational processor Moy Park and several Stormont departments. John Manley reports...

The list of beneficiaries of the non-domestic Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI) remains under wraps but it is understood that it contains a high number of poultry farmers. The brother of Arlene Foster's special adviser Andrew Crawford, whom The Irish News revealed a fortnight ago as a claimant of the scheme, is one such chicken farmer based in Co Tyrone.

There is no suggestion of any wrongdoing or abuse of the RHI on the part of Moy Park or its hundreds of suppliers across the north but it appears the way the scheme operated was particularly advantageous to both, as it helped ensure normally tight margins were ameliorated by a taxpayer-funded subsidy, totalling tens of millions of pounds.

Deti's delayed launch of the regional RHI in 2012 came not long after the Stormont-sponsored Agri-Food Strategy Board set out its plan to increase exports of beef, dairy, pork and poultry.

The plan was supported by then First Minister Peter Robinson, Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness, Agriculture Minister Michelle O'Neill and Enterprise Minister Arlene Foster and at its heart was a call for "integrated supply chains" that forged closer links between primary producers and processors.

The RHI was particularly useful to poultry farmers – or 'growers' as they are known in the industry – because heating the huge sheds in which the chickens spent their short lives with biomass (wood chip pellets) ensured better quality meat and reduced the amounts of ammonia produced.

A Moy Park spokesman previously told The Irish News: "We have been advocating the use of hot water heating systems across our poultry production in England and Northern Ireland for many years.

"These systems produce a dry heat which creates a healthy environment for the chickens."

Ordinarily this was a costly process but with the help of lucrative RHI subsidies, poultry farmers were able to top-up their income significantly.

The Audit Office's report from July this year into the overspend caused by the botched RHI notes: "In some cases such as in the poultry industry, it is possible that a biomass boiler could be used almost all of the time in order to replace an oil boiler.

"In an extreme case of the boiler being operated 24 hours a day and only being stopped for servicing, as shown in very large profits could be realised, even though the use of the biomass boiler would still be in line with the spirit of the scheme."

Soon after the RHI launch, of which initial uptake was comparatively slow, came the horsemeat scandal, leading to increased consumer demand in Britain for 'locally-sourced' chicken, which included that produced across the Irish Sea in Northern Ireland.

Growing demand, a generous energy subsidy and the 'fast-tracking' of planning applications for poultry sheds created optimal conditions for the poultry sector. In addition, Arlene Foster and her DUP colleague Simon Hamilton – then Stormont's respective economy and finance ministers – collaborated to create the ‘Agri-Food Loan Scheme'. This meant that in many instances farmers expanded their businesses through taxpayer-guaranteed lending from banks, was initially tailored specifically for poultry producers.

A report in one local newspaper from 2014 publicising First Trust's lending through the scheme tells how a Moy Park supplier borrowed £180,000 for a "state-of-the-art biomass heating system".

"I approached First Trust Bank when I heard they fund energy efficiency schemes, as well as having a dedicated fund for supporting agriculture based businesses," the farmer enthused.

At the same time, Moy Park was holding well-attended meetings to publicise the opportunities available to farmers and boasting in the press how it was experiencing "phenomenal interest" from farmers and had more than 250 new poultry in the pipeline.

The Irish News this week asked Moy Park whether it wished to comment on how fortuitous circumstances had created an environment where its costs and those of its suppliers had been lowered significantly and that this had helped fuel a rapid expansion of the north's poultry sector.

The company declined to comment

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Ifck2w-aTJYJ:www.irishnews.com/news/2016/12/24/news/poultry-sector-expansion-fuelled-by-more-than-chicken-feed-850288/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on December 24, 2016, 03:28:44 PM
I came across this selection of papers released last week by Simon Hamilton on the RHI scheme, and the plans to end and impose tariffs.

http://www.niassembly.gov.uk/globalassets/documents/raise/deposited-papers/2016/dp1595.pdf

What caught my eye was a July 8th 2015 e mail to Jonathan Bell and his SPAD Timothy Cairns from the Energy Department
going over options to get a handle on the scheme.  (page 15)

In the e mail they tell Bell and Cairns that to continue to do nothing wasn't an option "as indications from Moy Park were
that it would take 12 to 18 months to convert all its poultry producers broiler houses to biomass heating."

Seeing as Moy Park have 800 growers here, we are looking at a substantial number of broiler houses as most growers
would have a minimum of 2 !!

Now it's my guess that with closure of the scheme imminent, and completion of new broiler houses and biomass conversions
in various stages, the pressure was on to keep the scheme open for as many to get signed up as quick as possible.

The RHI scheme stayed open in 2 stages for a further 6 months, and you can bet that Moy Park poultry houses are the main reason
for the spike.

They no doubt put some effort into reducing their 18 month time frame down to 6 months...

The Energy Department were aware of Moy Parks plans, the costs involved, and brought it up to Bell and Cairns.

They seen the writing on the wall for sure......



Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: tyssam5 on December 26, 2016, 01:42:23 AM
So I've read all the controversy about ending/not ending the scheme - but as any blame
Or explanation been offered for who came up with the inflated subsidy level in the first instance?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on December 27, 2016, 10:54:16 AM
So, the spike in applications was due to hen houses being changed over to being heated by pellets instead of oil or lpg. 

The question arises, is the RHI an indirect subsidy to Moy Park as it appears to benefit from its houses being heated for free and the government providing an additional income for the farmers.

http://www.irishnews.com/news/2016/12/27/news/officials-warned-bell-that-poultry-shed-heating-systems-were-fuelling-rhi-costs-surge-851709/ (http://www.irishnews.com/news/2016/12/27/news/officials-warned-bell-that-poultry-shed-heating-systems-were-fuelling-rhi-costs-surge-851709/)
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on December 27, 2016, 11:21:47 PM
So, the spike in applications was due to hen houses being changed over to being heated by pellets instead of oil or lpg. 

The question arises, is the RHI an indirect subsidy to Moy Park as it appears to benefit from its houses being heated for free and the government providing an additional income for the farmers.

http://www.irishnews.com/news/2016/12/27/news/officials-warned-bell-that-poultry-shed-heating-systems-were-fuelling-rhi-costs-surge-851709/ (http://www.irishnews.com/news/2016/12/27/news/officials-warned-bell-that-poultry-shed-heating-systems-were-fuelling-rhi-costs-surge-851709/)

From everything I have read so far, I believe that Moy Park growers will be the main winners in this RHI scam.

250 new broiler houses and no doubt hundreds of biomass conversations in a 2 year period.

My guess at this stage as to why the scheme was kept open despite the warnings, is down to the fact that
so many people were getting in on scheme as their conversations were completed and houses built.

Moy Park and the banks had a lot invested, and it was in both their interests that pressure was brought
on certain people to keep it open.

Nothing short of an independent investigation will suffice at this stage given the severity of the situation.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on December 28, 2016, 12:05:59 AM
Hen houses built after the scheme closed reverted to lpg for heating.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on December 29, 2016, 01:23:20 PM
Department warned of RHI flaws a year before its launch

Andrew Madden
29 December, 2016 01:00


More than a dozen companies and other bodies warned about the need for cost controls in the Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI) more than a year before its launch.

"Fundamental flaws" in the design of the green energy scheme have left the taxpayer facing a bill of up to £490 million over the next 20 years.

RHI was designed to encourage businesses to switch from fossil fuels to renewable sources like wood pellets.

In July 2011, the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment (Deti) wrote to companies and other bodies likely to have an interest in the scheme, asking for views on a detailed development plan.

Documents uncovered by The Irish News show that by October, 13 had expressed concerns relating to 'over-incentivisation'.

Subsidies offered for generating the renewable heat were initially set lower than a similar scheme in Britain.

In response, many companies said the tariff should be raised. However, they also warned against setting the rate too high, as this could lead to people burning fuel simply to make money.

Banbridge-based AgriAD Ltd said it was essential that safeguards were put in place so Deti can "see that the heat use that is being incentivised is actually being utilised properly and that it is not simply a mechanism to claim the incentive".

Biogas Nord also wrote that the only way to ensure the scheme was not abused would be to "introduce rigorous mechanisms from the outset".

When RHI was eventually introduced in November 2012 by then Deti minister Arlene Foster, the subsidy had been raised above the cost of fuel.

Crucially, unlike in Britain, there were also no caps on payments or 'tiering' to ensure spending was controlled over time.

This led to a 'burn as you earn' scenario, with reports of some farmers heating empty sheds or running boilers 24 hours a day to generate money.

Controls were only put in place in November 2015, by which time there had been a huge spike in applications.

Other bodies who raised concerns in September 2011 included Power NI, Manufacturing NI, Solmatix Renewables and Creagh Concrete.
 
Energy firm Airtricity also advised Deti there should be caps on payments and that metering be closely monitored to ensure "perverse incentives to over-generate can be avoided".

The Ulster Farmers' Union said tariff levels should only be guaranteed "until such time that a project starts making a viable return".

"Anything prolonged into the life of a project could create an uncompetitive sector and, to quote DETI, one which is 'over-incentivised'."

Mrs Foster last week described the failure to cap RHI subsidies as the "deepest political regret" of her time as an MLA but rejected calls to step aside as First Minister during an independent investigation.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:n4zww7bZK4IJ:www.irishnews.com/news/2016/12/29/news/department-warned-of-rhi-flaws-a-year-before-its-launch-854637/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: StGallsGAA on December 29, 2016, 11:16:04 PM
At least May Park growers were using the heat for a purpose.  Heating buildings 24/7 needlessly is an entirely different matter.  Roast the b**tards nuts on an open RHI fire I say....
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 30, 2016, 01:09:03 AM
Rumours abound that she'll leave....
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on December 30, 2016, 03:48:47 AM
Maybe some growers kept the heat on a bit too much......


Families tuck into £30 Tesco Christmas turkeys to find 'glowing green' meat inside


Tesco customers have taken to the firm's Facebook page to complain about 'glowing green' turkey meat

Shoppers posted photographs of crowns of turkey meat cut open to reveal a fluorescent green colour.

It is believed to be caused by a degenerative muscle condition known as Green Muscle Disease.

Rachael James, 33, said she grabbed a turkey for her Christmas Day festive meal from a store in Whitchurch, Shropshire.

"When I got it out of the packaging it seemed to be okay but once I had cooked it and started to carve it in front of everyone I noticed that there was something wrong with the centre of the turkey," she said.

"It put everyone off their meal and ruined the meal, none of us felt like we could eat any of the turkey and ended up having the whole meal with no turkey.'

"It ruined the meal completely, this was a meal that we had all been looking forward to for months as we have a had a stressful year."

Customers are said to have paid as much as £30 for the glowing birds. Tesco said it had offered a refund to the customers affected.

A Tesco spokesperson said: "There's nothing more important than the quality of the food we sell so we were concerned to hear this has happened.

"We've offered a refund to the customers affected and will inform our supplier."


http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/uk/families-tuck-into-30-tesco-christmas-turkeys-to-find-glowing-green-meat-inside-35326202.html
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on December 30, 2016, 06:07:18 AM
Rumours abound that she'll leave....

Looks like it. 5 days max......
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on December 30, 2016, 06:19:13 AM
Moy Park production line......


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbbRAIuURZI
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on December 30, 2016, 07:14:35 AM
RHI scandal: Foster told banks scheme was ‘real opportunity for investors’

Details of a letter sent by Arlene Foster to the Province’s most senior bankers in the early days of the catastrophic Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI) scheme show she promoted it as a “real opportunity for consumers and investors”.

The scheme – which now looks set to carve a nine-figure hole into the Province’s public finances due to the cack-handed way it was set up – had only been running for a matter of months when Mrs Foster wrote the letters, asking bankers to “look favourably” on businesses who wanted to borrow money for installing RHI systems.

TUV leader Jim Allister said the letters indicate “a far greater ministerial attachment” to the RHI than had been acknowledged before. He also said that, since they contain assurances that the government was guaranteeing the scheme, they might make it harder to find a way of cutting down on the ultimate cost which the scheme will spell for Northern Irish taxpayers.

In an edition of the Sunday World on Saturday, the paper reported that such letters were known to exist, but not what their exact contents were. The DUP has now revealed the letters in full. They were sent to directors of Ulster Bank, Danske Bank, the Bank of Ireland, First Trust, HSBC, Barclays and Santander. They are dated January 7, 2013, and signed by her as the then-minister for the Department for Enterprise Trade and Investment (DETI).

The RHI scheme had been set up for business and farm applicants the previous November. She described the need to increase renewable energy use as being “imperative”, and said she would “like to draw your attention” to the RHI scheme. She said the tariffs (subsidy rates paid under the scheme) had been set to “cover the cost difference” between a renewable heat scheme and a fossil fuel-fired one. She added that the rates provided “certainty for investors by setting a guaranteed support level for projects for their lifetime in a scheme, regardless of future reviews” – although she added the rates would increase with inflation for both new and existing installers.

The letter went on to state that “DETI believes that the RHI is a real opportunity for consumers and investors to install new renewable heating systems and enjoy lower energy costs and ongoing incentive payments”. It adds that the uptake of the scheme was dependent in many cases on people obtaining loans to buy boilers, adding: “I am therefore writing to encourage you to look favourably on approaches from businesses that are seeking finance to install renewable technologies. “The government support, on offer throughout the incentive schemes, is reliable, long term and offers a good return on investment.”

Mr Allister said that “actively promoting the scheme with banks so that they would lend to those installing RHI boilers” pointed to “a far greater ministerial attachment to this scheme than hitherto has been admitted”. He added: “Moreover, if those letters stressed the long-term security of the tariffs, then, it further underscores ministerial knowledge and satisfaction with that situation – to the detriment of the taxpayer.

“It would also now make it more difficult for the Executive to retreat from the contractual commitments made. “With each new revelation the need for a full judicial inquiry becomes more imperative.” UUP economy spokesman Steven Aiken likewise questioned how the Executive could now extricate itself from the scheme, given that “she herself wrote to banks and lending institutions to assure them about the tariffs and the ‘consistency of support’ over 20 years”.

The scheme was set up in such a way that the tariff paid out per kilowatt of heat generated was worth more than the cost of the fuel being burned – so users made a profit based on how much fuel they incinerated. Unlike mainland UK, there was also no limit on how long people could run boilers for.

The subsidies would run for 20 years.

In the end, the costs spiralled out of control, and estimates for how much Northern Ireland may need to find to plug the gap have ranged from about £400m to £600m. Mrs Foster has previously said: “I left the department in May of 2015. No problems were highlighted to me, my officials, there was no recommendation in relation to doing anything differently.”

The News Letter asked the DUP how she could not have noticed anything was amiss with the scheme at the time since she was promoting its benefits in the letter. The party said: “The then DETI minister Arlene Foster wrote to financial institutions in January 2013 following the launch of Renewable Heat Incentive in November 2012. “The correspondence was aimed at informing the main institutions of both renewable heat and other renewable electricity incentives.”


http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/rhi-scandal-foster-told-banks-scheme-was-real-opportunity-for-investors-1-7751940
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Smokin Joe on December 30, 2016, 07:53:37 AM
I love this stance that she has maintained so far:

Mrs Foster has previously said: “I left the department in May of 2015. No problems were highlighted to me, my officials, there was no recommendation in relation to doing anything differently.”


A very quick trawl on a Biogas installer's Twitter feeds turned up this tweet in March 2015:
https://twitter.com/Solmatix/status/573173933534523392

They were openly advertising that the grant was more than the cost of the pellets.  If the then Minister wasn't aware of this fact then she was incompetent (at best).
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: GJL on December 30, 2016, 10:30:52 AM
Rumours abound that she'll leave....

Looks like it. 5 days max......

Who will replace her though? Dodds?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: imtommygunn on December 30, 2016, 10:40:05 AM
How many lies has the woman told now? It seems to be lie, expose lie, lie some more, expose more, keep going etc.

I would imagine Dodds would replace her. I wouldn't hold out much hope for him but then i wouldn't of any of them.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Dougal Maguire on December 30, 2016, 11:01:14 AM
Dodds is not an MLA. For him to replace her he would have to relinquish his Westminster seat and Arlene would need to stand down as MLA to allow him to be co-opted as an MLA. This would then force a Westminster by election which, failing a Unionist pact, could mean they lose the seat to SF. I would therefore think it's too risky a strategy
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: StGallsGAA on December 30, 2016, 11:09:49 AM
Would big-gub Dodds have to relinquish his Westminster seat?  I thought the no double-jobbing thing was optional rather than mandatory?   My money would be on Simon Hamilton to replace Miss Piggy.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: orangeman on December 30, 2016, 11:27:16 AM
How many lies has the woman told now? It seems to be lie, expose lie, lie some more, expose more, keep going etc.

I would imagine Dodds would replace her. I wouldn't hold out much hope for him but then i wouldn't of any of them.

Does it matter who replaces her ?.

I'd love to have seen Gregory in the hot seat. Her and Greg two peas out of the same pod.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: GJL on December 30, 2016, 12:08:50 PM
How many lies has the woman told now? It seems to be lie, expose lie, lie some more, expose more, keep going etc.

I would imagine Dodds would replace her. I wouldn't hold out much hope for him but then i wouldn't of any of them.

Does it matter who replaces her ?.

I'd love to have seen Gregory in the hot seat. Her and Greg two peas out of the same pod.

Would love to see that myself but the DUPers would know better. Not the sharpest tool in the box is our Greg.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 30, 2016, 12:12:42 PM
Jeffery ?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Dougal Maguire on December 30, 2016, 12:59:55 PM
He's an MP as well. How strong and accurate are these rumours and where are they coming from?  There was a rumour going round the other day that the queen had died!
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on December 31, 2016, 01:39:07 AM
Farmers across north enjoy lion's share of lucrative RHI subsidy, papers show

JOHN MANLEY
31 December, 2016 01:00

The north's farmers represent the overwhelming majority of claimants for Stormont's botched green energy scheme, documents obtained by The Irish News reveal.

A breakdown by sector of those receiving the lucrative subsidy shows that almost 55 per cent of Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI) claimants are involved in 'crop and animal production, hunting and related service activities.'

In total, 1906 businesses in Northern Ireland are expected to claim around £1.2 billion over the next 20 years.

The bulk of the funds were supposed to be paid by the UK Treasury, however, Stormont may now have to foot up to half the total bill.

Official documents obtained by this paper categorise claimants of the non-domestic RHI using the government's standard industrial classification – or SIC.

Agriculture-based enterprises represent by far the largest group, with 1030 farm businesses listed as claimants – more than 10 times the number from any other sector.

Earlier this week, The Irish News reported how civil servants warned former enterprise minister Jonathan Bell that a surge in demand for poultry shed heating systems was rapidly driving up the cost of the north's bespoke RHI scheme, which unlike a corresponding scheme in Britain had no cost controls in place.
 
In July last year – months before spending on the lucrative scheme was finally curbed – officials within the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment (Deti) sent Mr Bell an urgent memo highlighting the spiralling cost of the Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI).

"This increase has been driven by a move in the poultry sector away from LPG (liquid petroleum gas) heating systems to biomass heating systems in broiler houses," the memo said.

The breakdown of the RHI scheme by category shows the second largest group is the hotel/hospitality sector, where 92 businesses are availing of the generous subsidy scheme.

Forestry and logging, although a comparatively small sector in the north, has 80 RHI claimants, while 71 firms involved in the manufacture of basic wood products and straw are claiming the subsidy.

Other notable groups of claimants are retailers, sports and recreation facilities and care homes.

The list of non-domestic RHI claimants by standard industrial classification – or SIC

:: Crop and animal production, hunting and related service activities 1030

:: Accommodation 92

:: Forestry and logging 80

:: Manufacture of wood, wood products and cork, except furniture; manufacture of articles of straw and plaiting materials 71

:: Office administrative, office support and other business support activities 64

:: Retail trade, except of motor vehicles and motorcycles 43

:: Sports activities and amusement and recreation activities 34

:: Residential care activities 32

:: Manufacture of fabricated metal products, except machinery and equipment 30

:: Wholesale and retail trade and repair of motor vehicles and motorcycles 38

:: Wholesale trade, except of motor vehicles and motorcycles 31

:: Repair and installation of machinery and equipment 29

:: Other manufacturing 22

:: Warehousing and support activities for transportation 21

:: Activities of membership organizations 19

:: Specialized construction activities 18

:: Construction of buildings 17

:: Manufacture of machinery and equipment 15

:: Manufacture of motor vehicles, trailers and semi-trailers 14

:: Other mining and quarrying 14

:: Manufacture of food products 13

:: Food and beverage service activities 12

:: Manufacture of electrical equipment 11

:: Education 11

:; Manufacture of textiles 9

:: Waste collection, treatment and disposal activities; materials recovery 8

:: Social work activities without accommodation 8

:: Libraries, archives, museums and other cultural activities 8

:: Manufacture of furniture 7

:: Civil engineering 7

:: Human health activities 6

:: Human health activities 6

:: Manufacture of wearing apparel 6

:: Undifferentiated goods- and services-producing activities of private households for own use 6

:: Motion picture, video and television programme production, sound recording and music publishing activities 6

:: Manufacture of other transport equipment 5

:: Activities of head offices; management consultancy activities 5

:: Manufacture of rubber and plastics products 5

:: Manufacture of other non-metallic mineral products 5

:: Other professional, scientific and technical activities 5

:: Land transport and transport via pipelines 5

:: Manufacture of beverages 4

:: Rental and leasing activities 4

:: Manufacture of basic metals 3

:: Veterinary activities 3

:: Other personal service activities 3

:: Creative, arts and entertainment activities 2

:: Fishing and aquaculture 2

:: Mining of coal and lignite 2

:: Manufacture of leather and related products 2

:: Printing and reproduction of recorded media 2

:: Water transport 2

:: Manufacture of chemicals and chemical products 2

:: Architectural and engineering activities; technical testing and analysis 2

:: Activities of households as employers of domestic personnel 1

:: Repair of computers and personal and household goods 1

:: Electricity, gas, steam and air conditioning supply 1

:: Employment activities 1

:: Services to buildings and landscape activities 1

:: Postal and courier activities 1

:: Computer programming, consultancy and related activities 1

:: Financial service activities, except insurance and pension funding 1

:: Activities auxiliary to financial service and insurance activities 1

:: Legal and accounting activities 1

:: Manufacture of computer, electronic and optical products 1

Total 1906


http://www.irishnews.com/news/2016/12/31/news/farmers-enjoy-lion-s-share-of-lucrative-rhi-subsidy-857667/
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: illdecide on December 31, 2016, 07:07:58 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38466327 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38466327)

Surely there is no way back from this...
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on December 31, 2016, 08:28:40 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38466327 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38466327)

Surely there is no way back from this...

In a normal society she would have gone. However, in this neck of the woods there are no rules......
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: HiMucker on December 31, 2016, 09:37:58 PM
Always notable how bbc put these headlines online down the pecking order quickly.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on December 31, 2016, 11:22:14 PM
Always notable how bbc put these headlines online down the pecking order quickly.

Probably because the original investigation of this letter was by the News Letter.

BBC has been the main driver in this matter.  News Letter has enthusiastically taken up the mantle.  One of the workers from Arlene's office has called for a boycott of the News Letter because of its investigation.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Real Talk on January 01, 2017, 01:17:14 AM
Always notable how bbc put these headlines online down the pecking order quickly.

Probably because the original investigation of this letter was by the News Letter.

BBC has been the main driver in this matter.  News Letter has enthusiastically taken up the mantle.  One of the workers from Arlene's office has called for a boycott of the News Letter because of its investigation.

And UTV has absolutely no appetite for it at all ..... are just hoping it will go away soon 
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 01, 2017, 10:19:07 AM
To be fair, UTV has had its own troubles. 

It has been taken over by ITV and its resources for news gathering have been fairly reduced leaving it to follow the usual court cases and other incidents as a local news outlet for the major organisation.  Its reporters were always fairly poor and the new circumstances have not emboldened them.  It does not have the access to the type of resources found at BBC Spotlight nor the type of programming on the radio similar to Nolan and Talkback.

UTV will gradually fade away into ITV and we will be left with the state funded broadcaster as the only radio and TV platform on which the local politicians can be held to account and even ridicule.

Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 03, 2017, 12:42:33 AM
Interesting day ahead tomorrow for Sinn Fein as they have flip flopped 3 times today on their position
on whether to call for a public inquiry or not.....

In An Phoblact,  Declan Kearney was calling for a public inquiry, then a short time later the article was amended
where the call for a public inquiry was withdrawn.

They claimed there was a typo in the original article !!!

visitors can't see pics , please register or login



Then 30 minutes ago, Sam McBride of the Newsletter tweeted this:

"Utterly intriguing: Declan Kearney has tonight published (via his own email) a copy of the original statement calling for a public inquiry."

What is going on with the decision makers in SF?

Why do they keep changing their mind on whether the inquiry should be public or not?

Have they got something to hide and are scared that it will come out in a public inquiry?

My guess is that they knew something and did nothing. Maybe the DUP got them involved in an e mail chain like they did over
Nama and have taken away any "We didn't know" wiggle room?

Over 1,000 farmers signed up for this RHI scheme, and my best guess over £100 million was spent on new broiler houses and biomass conversions.

Throughout this time Michelle O'Neill from Sinn Fein was Agriculture Minister.

I find it impossible to believe that she knew nothing about this explosion of growth in the poultry industry, with a large chunk of it
been spent in her back yard.

IF she didn't know, she has shown incredible incompetence and if she did know, what did she know?

This RHI fiasco is far from over, and there are still some fireworks left to ignite........
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 03, 2017, 01:12:38 AM
Confusion reigns over Sinn Féin stance on RHI public inquiry

Gareth McKeown
03 January, 2017 01:00

The Sinn Féin position on whether a public inquiry should be held into the botched Renewable Heat Incentive is under scrutiny yet again, just days after the party released a firm statement in opposition.

After appearing to clarify it did not support a public inquiry on Friday evening a senior MLA contradicted the party line on Monday by calling for a "time-framed,comprehensive, independent public inquiry, led by an international jurist".

The statement from South Antrim MLA Declan Kearney released on Monday morning was hastily withdrawn by the Sinn Féin press office just hours later and a new one released.

This time Mr Kearney spoke of the need for a "time-framed, comprehensive, independent investigation, led by an international jurist.”

A Sinn Féin spokesman said the confusion was the result of a "typo" and was quickly rectified.

The apparent flip-flop of position comes a month after deputy leader Mary Lou McDonald said that a public inquiry into RHI should be held as a "matter of urgency".

Newry and Armagh MLA Conor Murphy also previously said that a public inquiry should be one of the options considered to find out what went wrong.

SDLP Mid Ulster MLA Patsy McGlone accused Sinn Féin of being in "complete disarray" over how to respond to the RHI scandal.

"At a time when the public needs strong leadership, they have met DUP arrogance with equivocation, confusion and weakness," Mr McGlone said.

“They rolled over on their threat of ‘grave consequences’ should the First Minister not resign her position.

"They are in the middle of rolling over on the need for an independent inquiry into this shambles. Today we saw their party chairperson attempt a u-turn in the space of a couple of hours with a revised statement.

"Mary Lou McDonald has yet to correct her call for a full independent inquiry to align herself with Northern Sinn Féin’s latest media strategy," he added.
 
A statement issued by Sinn Féin on Friday night appeared to indicate that it no longer regarded a public inquiry as necessary.

A party spokesman said its priority was "restoring public confidence in the institutions by holding those responsible for this scandal to account".

"We believe that this can be best achieved by an independent, time-framed, robust and transparent investigation undertaken by an independent judicial figure from outside this jurisdiction and appointed by the attorney general," a party statement said.

"It is Sinn Féin’s view that a statutory public inquiry could drag on for years at a significant cost to the tax payers and adding to the cost of this scandal," they said.

In Mr Kearney's re-issued statement on Monday the Sinn Féin National chairperson said the political process is being dragged towards an "unprecedented tipping point" as a result of the DUP's behaviour around the RHI scandal and re-iterated party calls for Arlene Foster to step aside as First Minister.

Writing in An Phoblacht, Mr Kearney said the DUP had "lost the run of themselves within the northern political institutions".

"The political process has now been dragged recklessly by the DUP, culminating with the RHI crisis towards an unprecedented tipping point," he said

http://www.irishnews.com/news/2017/01/03/news/confusion-reigns-over-sinn-fe-in-stance-on-rhi-public-inquiry-861676/
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Applesisapples on January 03, 2017, 09:30:47 AM
It really is time for SF to man up and pull the plug, the only chance we have of an equality led executive is for the UUP to give the DUP a trouncing, even then I'd be sceptical. No opportunity to lavish money on loyalist culture is missed whilst funding for any thing remotely Irish is pulled.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on January 03, 2017, 10:09:39 AM
Just heard Declan Kearney on the radio.  All over the place.  Called Sam McBride of the News Letter a "juvenile journalist".  SF need to realise that they're on the wrong side of the argument here.  Their supporters don't want them to cover Arlene's arse, they want them to boot that arse down the steps of Stormont. 
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: johnneycool on January 03, 2017, 10:30:53 AM
Its beginning to look like some senior Shinners knew all about the RHI scheme and turned a blind eye as well..
They may need to throw Michelle O'Neill under the bus as well to get Arlene shifted, but there doesn't seem to be a will to do that within Sinn Féin.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Applesisapples on January 03, 2017, 10:41:10 AM
Just heard Declan Kearney on the radio.  All over the place.  Called Sam McBride of the News Letter a "juvenile journalist".  SF need to realise that they're on the wrong side of the argument here.  Their supporters don't want them to cover Arlene's arse, they want them to boot that arse down the steps of Stormont.
To be fair Declan is at best a juvenile politician out of his depth. I'd say it is possible SF are split on this Conor Murphy and Mary Lou called for a public enquiry. Could McGuinness and Adams be at odds on this?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: BarryBreensBandage on January 03, 2017, 12:52:32 PM
Just heard Declan Kearney on the radio.  All over the place.  Called Sam McBride of the News Letter a "juvenile journalist".  SF need to realise that they're on the wrong side of the argument here.  Their supporters don't want them to cover Arlene's arse, they want them to boot that arse down the steps of Stormont.
To be fair Declan is at best a juvenile politician out of his depth. I'd say it is possible SF are split on this Conor Murphy and Mary Lou called for a public enquiry. Could McGuinness and Adams be at odds on this?

I think you could be right. Very hard to see how this scheme could have been rolled out with approval from OFMDFM and them not to know about it. Also, at the time, it was believed that the scheme would be covered financially by London, which IMO would have relaxed a lot of peoples' morality/integrity.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Applesisapples on January 03, 2017, 01:01:44 PM
Just heard Declan Kearney on the radio.  All over the place.  Called Sam McBride of the News Letter a "juvenile journalist".  SF need to realise that they're on the wrong side of the argument here.  Their supporters don't want them to cover Arlene's arse, they want them to boot that arse down the steps of Stormont.
To be fair Declan is at best a juvenile politician out of his depth. I'd say it is possible SF are split on this Conor Murphy and Mary Lou called for a public enquiry. Could McGuinness and Adams be at odds on this?
I think it is fair to say all the parties missed this one. Where Foster becomes stuck is that it was introduced by her dept and they deliberately excluded caps thus exposing the Executive to the over spend. I could accept that to a degree she may have relied on her officials for advice if it wasn't for the fact that she was touting the scheme to the banks as a good investment. Ian Og resigned for less, Conor Murphy and Daithi McKay got shafted for less. Foster should step aside and see what comes out of the investigation. Unfortunately DUP arrogance won't allow it.
I think you could be right. Very hard to see how this scheme could have been rolled out with approval from OFMDFM and them not to know about it. Also, at the time, it was believed that the scheme would be covered financially by London, which IMO would have relaxed a lot of peoples' morality/integrity.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Owenmoresider on January 03, 2017, 04:42:53 PM
Just heard Declan Kearney on the radio.  All over the place.  Called Sam McBride of the News Letter a "juvenile journalist".  SF need to realise that they're on the wrong side of the argument here.  Their supporters don't want them to cover Arlene's arse, they want them to boot that arse down the steps of Stormont.
I wonder does Declan regard these conversations as being uncomfortable. ;D
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 03, 2017, 07:05:49 PM
It is becoming clearer that while RHI rumbles on, SF is in the throes of a leadership struggle with factions and runners positioning themselves and ignoring the type of party discipline needed to continue to cover up the scandal and provide cover for Arlene who has treated her junior partners with total disdain throughout.  McGuinness is on his way out and no longer able to function as the focus for the party and Adams is becoming increasingly toxic in the south and irrelevant to those in the north.

The public wants a public inquiry with full transparency.  SF consensus now appears to be content with an independent inquiry that will hide any issues that would affect them.  There is no doubt that SF ministers were aware of the issues and this would emerge in a public inquiry.  This embarrassment may well suit some of those involved in the leadership struggle while not acceptable to others.

PBP now have the ball at their feet and the goal is opening up as SF fail to deal with Arlene and DUP as its electorate want.  An election would result in PBP eating further into the SF vote as fewer nationalists and republicans can be bothered to vote or are willing to vote else where if a radical party or representative is available.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 03, 2017, 07:14:49 PM
Just heard Declan Kearney on the radio.  All over the place.  Called Sam McBride of the News Letter a "juvenile journalist".  SF need to realise that they're on the wrong side of the argument here.  Their supporters don't want them to cover Arlene's arse, they want them to boot that arse down the steps of Stormont.
I wonder does Declan regard these conversations as being uncomfortable. ;D

Reminds me of the "Dissident Journalists" remark from McGuinness a few years ago.....

http://sluggerotoole.com/2009/04/09/beware-journalists-who-dissent-from-government-or-powerful-organisations/
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 03, 2017, 07:50:30 PM
It is becoming clearer that while RHI rumbles on, SF is in the throes of a leadership struggle with factions and runners positioning themselves and ignoring the type of party discipline needed to continue to cover up the scandal and provide cover for Arlene who has treated her junior partners with total disdain throughout.  McGuinness is on his way out and no longer able to function as the focus for the party and Adams is becoming increasingly toxic in the south and irrelevant to those in the north.

The public wants a public inquiry with full transparency.  SF consensus now appears to be content with an independent inquiry that will hide any issues that would affect them.  There is no doubt that SF ministers were aware of the issues and this would emerge in a public inquiry.  This embarrassment may well suit some of those involved in the leadership struggle while not acceptable to others.

PBP now have the ball at their feet and the goal is opening up as SF fail to deal with Arlene and DUP as its electorate want.  An election would result in PBP eating further into the SF vote as fewer nationalists and republicans can be bothered to vote or are willing to vote else where if a radical party or representative is available.

Good points, and as the days go on, i'm beginning to sense that Sinn Fein know more than they are letting on.

There is no way this scheme rumbled on without some if not all at the top knowing something.

If they have nothing to hide, they should be shouting from the roof tops for a public inquiry and in the process
burying a hatchet into the DUP. They way they are behaving is just playing into the hands of the DUP.

After their double dealing with Jamie Bryson during the Nama investigating, I don't trust them with anything less than
a public inquiry.

PBP could eat into their vote, however, I feel they have been very low key on this RHI fiasco. They lack knowledge on it
and have done very little to highlight issues that have appeared and continue to appear. I sent them on plenty of info that
would help them, but to date I have seen very little of them using it, and no acknowledgement of receiving the info.

The 2 parties standing any chance of making gains should be the SDLP and the UUP. They have been to the forefront
from day one and if they mount a good campaign, they should do well.


Realistically though, both the DUP and Sinn Fein will still do well in an election. They have a blind following of loyal voters
who only vote along orange and green lines, and will ensure that their majority will remain intact at Stormont.

I would love to see a protest candidate stand in every constituency in order to gauge public opinion. A few getting elected
would be a much needed kick in the ass to the establishment.......

Anyone willing to stand?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Rossfan on January 03, 2017, 08:33:40 PM
I suppose the PBP are too busy organising World revolution.....
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 03, 2017, 10:25:35 PM
Belfast councillors back call for public probe into RHI energy scandal

CLAIRE SIMPSON
03 January, 2017 21:19


BELFAST councillors have backed a motion calling for a public independent inquiry into the Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI) scandal.

Independent unionist councillor Ruth Patterson proposed the motion, which was agreed on Tuesday night as the council met for the first time since the Christmas break.

The DUP voted against the motion but Sinn Féin abstained, meaning Mrs Patterson's proposal passed.

Sinn Féin, which has recently sent out mixed messages on what type of inquiry it favours, had proposed an amendment calling for an investigation "carried out by an independent judicial figure" from outside the north and appointed by Attorney General John Larkin.

However the amendment, proposed by councillor Jim McVeigh, was voted down.

Ulster Unionist councillor Jeffrey Dudgeon also proposed another amendment suggesting that the council write to Secretary of State James Brokenshire asking for a "time-bound public inquiry" into the scandal, which is expected to cost taxpayers up to £490 million.

The amendment also proposed asking Arlene Foster to resign over her handling of the disastrous scheme.

However, the UUP amendment was also voted down.

An emotional Mrs Patterson hit out at the DUP and said "smugness and arrogance are the downfall of all of us".

She wept as she referred to a terminally ill young girl who is being treated at the Royal Belfast Hospital for Sick Children.
 
"Whenever I look at us squabbling and £400 million gone up in smoke, just think of what that £400m could have done for the health service in this province. It really puts everything into perspective this evening," she said.

People Before Profit councillor Matt Collins also proposed an amendment "calling for an immediate general election in light of the RHI scandal" but it was not seconded.

http://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2017/01/04/news/belfast-councillors-back-call-for-public-probe-into-rhi-864090/?param=ds441rif44T
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: bridgegael on January 04, 2017, 07:40:46 AM
Arlene is playing the misogyny card. No shame whatsoever!
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Applesisapples on January 04, 2017, 09:09:52 AM
Foster's arrogance is breath taking but not surprising. The misogyny card is utter tosh as is the single line attack on SF which is sectarianisng the issue. The point everyone chooses to ignore including the UUP and SDLP is that MLA's were very aware of the scheme, problem is no one looked at it in detail because the intellectual capacity does not exist to do so. The big difference ignored by Foster is that as the minister she had a responsibility, others didn't. The rehashing of the IRA attacks on her school bus and her family is clutching at straws. Reprehensible as they were she does not have a monopoly of troubles related pain. I have no doubt SF have sat on this for a time so as not to cause grief. I can't understand why SF continue to prop up a party that treats them as second class croppies.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: ONeill on January 04, 2017, 09:24:26 AM
Sectarianism, sexism....What next Arlene? Fermanaghism?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: longballin on January 04, 2017, 09:27:18 AM
Strange she accuses Sinn Fein of trying to remove her when they are very much at the back of the pack  and don't seem to know what they are at...
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: haranguerer on January 04, 2017, 09:37:13 AM
She was very aware of her audience - it was a Sky interview, i.e. not local, viewers not likely to be familiar with the issues. So blame men, the IRA, anyone but herself, as usual.

Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on January 04, 2017, 10:01:36 AM
She was very aware of her audience - it was a Sky interview, i.e. not local, viewers not likely to be familiar with the issues. So blame men, the IRA, anyone but herself, as usual.

Yeah Paul Givan was asked on Raidio Uladh this morning what part of the coverage of RHI would have been different had Foster been a man...couldn't answer.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 04, 2017, 10:21:31 AM
This latest interview with Arlene demonstrates the failure exhibited by media outlets in relation to major issues over the last year.  In fear of being accused of lacking balance the media reports all stated by any politician as if it was true rather than challenging it.  For example the BBC and others knew that the £350m each week for NHS on Brexit was lies but did not immediately challenge it and decide not to carry the propaganda.  Other examples in US and on all sides.

In this interview by claiming the issue was being dealt with on a misogynistic basis she immediately challenged to interviewer to dare mention her competence as a minister was the issue.  Not an original tactic but one that she will hope will work for her but did not on other occasions on SKY, e.g. Labour shadow foreign secretary Emily Thornberry used it to cover her incompetence when questioned by Murnaghan. 

Foster is also running the other favourite tactic of government in trouble of causing a distraction which media will latch on to and stop them running headlines on the RHI.  She has attempted to create as much distraction as possible in the hope that the media will take the bait.  An initial review of the morning media output shows the bait has been swallowed.  However, the ordinary people in this country are canny and won't see misogyny as an issue for Arlene given her recent performances and the people have already formed their opinions on the matter with DUP core will to follow Arlene up whatever creek she decides to paddle the party's canoe.

The issues of RHI have not changed but have become clearer:
1. Minister at minimum asleep at the wheel in running DETI and not just in dealing with RHI as we lost 600MW coastal wind farm
2. New DETI minister left to deal with hot potato and carry the blame
3. Minister for Agriculture - how involved in delivering subsidy for poultry farmers?
4. Why did the current Finance minister continued to cover up the costs of the scheme
5. When will EU step in to deal with illegal industry subsidy

The role of political donors needs to become the next issue for the media to bring legislation into line with GB and name all of them for every party.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: uimhr ocht on January 04, 2017, 10:53:42 AM
Foster will play every card under the sun to stay first minister she must be the most arrogant leader ever,deflect, delay,tactics portraying  a victim is a joke,women card,orange card,ira card,
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Avondhu star on January 04, 2017, 12:27:27 PM
Foster will play every card under the sun to stay first minister she must be the most arrogant leader ever,deflect, delay,tactics portraying  a victim is a joke,women card,orange card,ira card,
Should do well in the United Ireland so!
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 04, 2017, 12:46:49 PM
Foster is clutching at straws now, and her position is untenable. If only Sinn Fein had one ball, never mind a pair......
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: No wides on January 04, 2017, 01:44:01 PM
Foster will play every card under the sun to stay first minister she must be the most arrogant leader ever,deflect, delay,tactics portraying  a victim is a joke,women card,orange card,ira card,

Her sky interview was cringe worthy at best, but being Norn Ireland she will not resign nor be pushed.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Applesisapples on January 04, 2017, 02:15:51 PM
Foster is clutching at straws now, and her position is untenable. If only Sinn Fein had one ball, never mind a pair......
In normal politics her position would be untenable. But the DUP will not allow either the UUP or Nationalists to push her out as this will be seen as weakness. It remains to be seen how this eventually plays out in the DUP. It is disappointing to see SF cling to Stormont and allow the DUP to push then around. One can only assume that McGuinness' illness is much worse than they are letting on.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: screenexile on January 04, 2017, 02:42:17 PM
Foster is clutching at straws now, and her position is untenable. If only Sinn Fein had one ball, never mind a pair......
In normal politics her position would be untenable. But the DUP will not allow either the UUP or Nationalists to push her out as this will be seen as weakness. It remains to be seen how this eventually plays out in the DUP. It is disappointing to see SF cling to Stormont and allow the DUP to push then around. One can only assume that McGuinness' illness is much worse than they are letting on.

But since the Brexit/US Election left is right and up is down. People can say and do random shit and don't have to resign anymore there are no consequences for their actions.

Arlene know that if she rides out the news cycle until the end of January she'll be grand which is why Sinn Fein's stalling on the sidelines is all the more sickening!! They should walk out trigger another election and then take FM away from the Unionists which should have shifted back towards UUP if Nesbitt is in any small way competent!!!
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on January 04, 2017, 03:11:38 PM
SF will do feck all - best case scenario and an election is called and they retain their vote share, they will still lose 5 seats as the assembly is cut to 90. ie loss of $$$$. Hopefully if the voters had any sense any election would hurt them more as they have been found out to be weak when it mattered. SDLP and PBP should in theory benefit but in reality nationalists just wont bother in even greater numbers.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Applesisapples on January 04, 2017, 03:25:58 PM
SF will do feck all - best case scenario and an election is called and they retain their vote share, they will still lose 5 seats as the assembly is cut to 90. ie loss of $$$$. Hopefully if the voters had any sense any election would hurt them more as they have been found out to be weak when it mattered. SDLP and PBP should in theory benefit but in reality nationalists just wont bother in even greater numbers.
Fcuk, bad and all as SF are PBP and the SDLP are worse.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 04, 2017, 04:19:14 PM
Foster is clutching at straws now, and her position is untenable. If only Sinn Fein had one ball, never mind a pair......
In normal politics her position would be untenable. But the DUP will not allow either the UUP or Nationalists to push her out as this will be seen as weakness. It remains to be seen how this eventually plays out in the DUP. It is disappointing to see SF cling to Stormont and allow the DUP to push then around. One can only assume that McGuinness' illness is much worse than they are letting on.

Sinn Fein have invested their political lifeblood to Stormont. They have lost a lot of their old support along the way when
they supported the PSNI, Royal visits, etc etc. They shored this up by an influx of new gullible voters.

Instead of promoting smart people through their ranks, they promoted those who were most loyal, or looked good on election posters.
Sure it was only a short while back that McGuinness said he would "die for the Peace Process".
Without a functioning Stormont, they have no political capital, International image, or more importantly,
a steady stream of money.

The DUP never gave a hoot about the Peace Process. They never spent one minute negotiating the Good Friday Agreement,
and instead waited their chance to bury the UUP. When they had that done, they then re negotiated the GFA into their own terms.
Due to a number of factors, Sinn Fein went along and from that day on, have been playing second fiddle to the DUP. 

If an election was called tomorrow, the DUP will drop some support, but not in the same way that Sinn Fein will.
Keeping Sinn Fein / SDLP from the top spot is way more important than this RHI fiasco.

Decaln Kearney who is usually a shrewd operator was left looking like an a small boy yesterday when he was tied up in his own words over whether he supported a public inquiry or not.

As it stands for me right now, I see the DUP and Sinn Fein doing a deal over an inquiry with Foster standing aside for a few weeks.
Something tells me that the DUP have something on Sinn Fein over this scandal, and it is in both parties interests to go along with
whatever deal is drawn up.

An interesting January lies ahead..................
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 04, 2017, 04:43:20 PM
Yet another flip after the last flop by SF. 

McGuinness and O'Neill met with Foster and Dodds today and the SF position is now that the RHI scandal should be probed by an independent panel investigation of the non-domestic RHI.

You couldn't make it up.  The cover up continues to evolve.  No transparency for the taxpayer.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Applesisapples on January 04, 2017, 04:49:17 PM
Declan Kearny has never been assured or impressive imo.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: imtommygunn on January 04, 2017, 04:56:29 PM
Ghdi would have to agree - i really think the dup must have something on sf or they are waymore incompetent than i would have thought.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on January 04, 2017, 05:28:46 PM
Yet another flip after the last flop by SF. 

McGuinness and O'Neill met with Foster and Dodds today and the SF position is now that the RHI scandal should be probed by an independent panel investigation of the non-domestic RHI.

You couldn't make it up.  The cover up continues to evolve.  No transparency for the taxpayer.

Why Doddsie??  He's not an MLA.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on January 04, 2017, 05:32:15 PM
At this stage the whole saga is becoming way more damaging to Sinn Féin that it is for the DUP.

If it ends up in an election the DUP will play the sectarian card and still get the votes.  Sinn Féin will lose out with lower nationalist turnout, a few to SDLP and more to PBP.

Ball dropped here big time.

/Jim.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on January 04, 2017, 05:32:46 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38509579

Some sort of deal/cover up agreed??
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 04, 2017, 09:41:00 PM
Came across this earlier from 2012 where Michelle O'Neill was launching grant aid for Biomass use in Forestry and Agriculture.

DARD Biomass Processing Challenge Fund

Nov/Dec 2012

The Biomass Processing Challenge Fund (BPCF) aims to
encourage agricultural and forestry businesses to install biomass
fuelled technologies primarily to aid agricultural activities at farm
level. The Fund can provide capital grant assistance of up to
40% with a ceiling of approximately £320,000 per project. To
allow farmers to address such issues, the Fund is to remain
open for an extended application period of 12 weeks.

The Minister highlighted that she wanted to see the agricultural
sector make a meaningful contribution to the Government target
of producing 40% of electricity and 10% of heat from renewable
sources by 2020. “I hope to see farmers coming forward with
applications incorporating a range of renewable technologies
and look forward to my Department supporting projects with
viable economic and technical business cases which evidence
how renewable energy technologies can benefit the farming
enterprise,” she added.

Applications to the fund are welcome from individual farmers and
groups of farmers.

The Biomass Processing Challenge Fund is part of the
Greenhouse Gas strategy and action plan (Efficient Farming
cuts Greenhouse Gases). Fund details including application
forms are available for download at:

http://www.dardni.gov.uk/index/grants-and-funding/biomassprocessing-challenge-fund.htm

The BPCF will be open to applications until 4pm on Friday 30
November 2012, No applications will be accepted after this time.


visitors can't see pics , please register or login



http://rapidni.com/Portals/rapidni/Newsletter%20Nov%20Dec.pdf
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 04, 2017, 11:23:08 PM
I'm glad I have the day off work tomorrow as Sam McBride has 5 pages in the Newsletter on RHI including
the inside view from a disgruntled DUP person.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Sam also had this to say a couple of hours ago:

"Arlene Foster says DUP had deal on RHI inquiry with SF on Dec 14; Jonathan Bell interview recorded that day; she says SF dropped deal Dec 16"

Plus, John Manley in The Irish News is printing a list of who has availed of the £55 million already paid out so far.......

There is also speculation that the complete 1,900 odd applicants will be names in the coming days.


Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 04, 2017, 11:28:40 PM
No one told me about DUP's plan to save RHI cash, says Finance Minister

Mairtin O Muilleoir said he was "bemused" after DUP economy minister Simon Hamilton announced he would bring forward emergency legislation

BYDAVID YOUNG & MAURICE FITZMAURICE
22:37, 4 JAN 2017

A DUP plan to save taxpayers from the 'cash for ash' scandal sparked a fresh row tonight as the Sinn Fein Finance Minister said no one told him about it.

Mairtin O Muilleoir said he was "bemused" after DUP economy minister Simon Hamilton announced he would bring forward emergency legislation to aimed at closing down elements of the RHI scheme that could cost Stormont more than £400million.


The DUP claim their plan aims to cut the estimated £490million overspend to zero.

And they want to recall the Assembly to set the ball rolling in the legal move. It is unclear if the plan will stand up to any legal challenge it may face from people who signed up for the scheme to heat businesses with wood pellet burners.

Observers will also be watching to see if the move saves under-pressure Arlene Foster.

The Department for the Economy, under the DUP's Simon Hamilton, plans to seek coalition partners Sinn Fein's backing for the move.

Mr Hamilton said: "I hope we would be able to get from my department a paper to the Executive in the next number of days for approval.

"It would be my hope then that we might be able to bring that to the Assembly as early as next week."

But Sinn Fein Finance Minister Mairtin O Muilleoir said the DUP had not contacted him.

He added: "I am bemused at the trailing in the media of a DUP plan to resolve the Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI) debacle when not one scrap of paper detailing this 'plan' has been received by the Department of Finance.

"I am alert to the dangers of allowing the person who was the architect of the RHI scheme - the DUP leader - to come up with a solution to this debacle. That is why I will ensure my officials rigorously test any plan which comes from the DUP.

"I will be guided solely by what is in the interest of the public purse.

"The DUP are in a hole and should stop digging."

First Minister Arlene Foster has claimed measures being drawn up by Mr Hamilton could clear Stormont's bill. "There will be no overspend," she said.

Mr O Muilleoir said: "Every plan produced by the Department of the Economy on this issue has been flawed."

However, Simon Hamilton went to say that he "will want to discuss with executive colleagues, including the [Sinn Fein] finance minister, and also then bring to the assembly for approval an option that would, in effect, reduce the cost to the Northern Ireland budget to zero".

http://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/no-one-told-dups-plan-12407506#ICID=sharebar_twitter
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Real Talk on January 04, 2017, 11:41:15 PM
 Simon Hamilton being 'fast tracked' for a Knight Hood

Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 04, 2017, 11:56:32 PM
Simon Hamilton being 'fast tracked' for a Knight Hood

A worthy contender for a Nobel Prize of some description......
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on January 05, 2017, 09:08:48 AM
Simon Hamilton being 'fast tracked' for a Knight Hood

A worthy contender for a Nobel Prize of some description......

Fiction??
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: armaghniac on January 05, 2017, 09:54:29 AM
It was reported on the RTE news this morning that the Dublin government were worried that all this would end in a heap and leave no 6 county government coming into Brexit.

Brexit can overthrow the entire GFA. Some of the commentary here is irresponsible implying that SF should use all the options on this boiler thing, which will be forgotten in 6 months. Not only SF have become Stormontised.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Applesisapples on January 05, 2017, 10:15:40 AM
It was reported on the RTE news this morning that the Dublin government were worried that all this would end in a heap and leave no 6 county government coming into Brexit.

Brexit can overthrow the entire GFA. Some of the commentary here is irresponsible implying that SF should use all the options on this boiler thing, which will be forgotten in 6 months. Not only SF have become Stormontised.
I accept this but the DUP are constantly eroding any Irish dimension to the North and a stand needs to be made. Personally I wouldn't have been insisting that Arlene step aside, I'd have held out for a public enquiry which will shatter the illusion of the DUP as being financially and economically credible. A big issue in Stormont is the profound lack of intellect at a political level which is why spads and civil servants have so much clout.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 05, 2017, 05:00:23 PM

I accept this but the DUP are constantly eroding any Irish dimension to the North and a stand needs to be made. Personally I wouldn't have been insisting that Arlene step aside, I'd have held out for a public enquiry which will shatter the illusion of the DUP as being financially and economically credible. A big issue in Stormont is the profound lack of intellect at a political level which is why spads and civil servants have so much clout.

What do you expect when you see many of the faces sitting on the benches of the great uneducated elected to represent the people, never mind some of those in place as ministers.  How many of the MLAs have a third level education that would be required from any of us who would apply for a job to run the country never mind to be a minister?  Too many of the MLAs are there because of their contribution to the party and not because they have the ability or education required to do the job.  Too many are voting fodder who are expected not to have an original thought, to follow the party line and stand or sit around the leader who is speaking to camera.  It says a lot about the electorate who put these people into position, for them it is all about having a party backside sitting on the bench in Stormont and not about the best person to do the job.  Unfortunately, that is politics in this country.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 06, 2017, 04:16:05 PM
RHI scandal: Arlene Foster rejects Sinn Féin's proposals

Northern Ireland's first minister has rejected plans for an investigation into a botched heating scheme that could cost taxpayers £490m.

Sinn Féin published its proposed terms of reference for an independent investigation into the Renewable Heating Scheme (RHI).

When asked if she would accept the proposals, Arlene Foster replied "no".

Mrs Foster set up the scheme in 2012 when she was enterprise minister and has refused calls to step aside.

Sinn Féin want her to do so while the debacle is investigated.

The RHI scheme was an attempt by the NI Executive to increase consumption of heat from renewable sources.

But businesses received more in subsidies than they paid for fuel, and the scheme became heavily oversubscribed.

Earlier, Justice Minister Claire Sugden said she did "not have the power" to initiate a public inquiry into the scheme.

Finance Minister Máirtín Ó Muilleoir warned on Thursday that if Mrs Foster does not step aside temporarily an election would be inevitable.

However, the DUP has consistently rejected calls for Mrs Foster to step aside.
On Wednesday, Economy Minister Simon Hamilton said he and Mrs Foster had come up with a plan to limit public losses to "effectively zero".

Judicial figure

Under the terms of power sharing outlined in the Good Friday Agreement, Sinn Féin and the DUP hold joint office at the head of the Northern Ireland Executive and must both agree on how to investigate the RHI crisis.

Sinn Féin has previously rejected the terms of reference drawn up by the head of the Northern Ireland civil service to investigate the issue.

Michelle O'Neill said no investigation could go ahead without Mrs Foster stepping aside

Sinn Féin wants the attorney general to appoint a judge to head up the panel.

Emergency legislation would be required to give the investigation the powers to compel witnesses and documentation.

The party says this could be done under accelerated passage; it wants the panel to produce a preliminary report within four weeks and a final report within three months.

"If Arlene Foster wants to do the right thing, then the right thing to do would be to step aside," said Sinn Féin's Michelle O'Neill.

When asked if any investigation could go ahead without Mrs Foster standing side, she replied "no".

"The public needs to have confidence and faith that any investigation that takes place is full transparent," she said.

"Our terms of reference clearly sets out a judicial figure, independent of any minister or any of the executive, will take forward an investigation.

"But at the heart of that has to be the issue of compellability, because if they can't compel people and papers, then the investigation's not going to be worth the paper it's written on."

Some hearings could be held in public but that would be up to the panel to decide, added Mrs O'Neill.

His proposal to resolve the botched renewable heating scheme was denounced by Mr Ó Muilleoir as a "sticking plaster".

Mr Hamilton and Mr Ó Muilleoir held "clear-the-air" talks on Thursday.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38525140
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Applesisapples on January 06, 2017, 04:24:02 PM
Foster's arrogance knows no bounds.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on January 06, 2017, 04:59:30 PM
The only thing that is becoming clearer in this mess is that an election changes nothing. It just kicks the can down the road. Not sure how long an election process would take but if it takes a few months then what changes in a few months time. Same faces in the same positions, no one held to account and still no proposals to fix this mess. Meanwhile money is being paid out to those with bollers installed, I assume that is the case?

Complete farce. Is this the SF strategy. Appear to look like the good guys doing the "right" thing which moves the problem down the line and hoping people forget about it. As long as this scheme operating the money has to come from somewhere which inevitably means robbing Peter (if only) to pay Paul with cuts to services. That'll never be something no one can sweep under the carpet and the only possibly way it can be is if they can get out of the payments with no cost to the public purse.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: seafoid on January 06, 2017, 05:00:32 PM
29%  approval.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on January 06, 2017, 05:00:42 PM
Well whaddya know - turns out Justice Minister Claire Sugden is a DUP puppet!

Point of info for some media types and journos - Claire Sugden is not an Independent MLA - she's an Independent Unionist MLA - bit of  a difference
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 06, 2017, 05:11:30 PM
Well whaddya know - turns out Justice Minister Claire Sugden is a DUP puppet!

Point of info for some media types and journos - Claire Sugden is not an Independent MLA - she's an Independent Unionist MLA - bit of  a difference

She has no backbone to be an independent, unionist or otherwise.  If she did develop some gumption she would be seeking to establish an inquiry under the 2005 Inquiries Act.  This would put SF on the back foot as they are attempting to sidestep the existing legislation by making untrue claims that any report could be changed by a minister.  Instead, she has pulled the blankets over her head and done nothing other than avoid her responsibilities as the minister for Justice.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 06, 2017, 05:13:15 PM
The major advantage of an election would be to reduce costs by a significant amount each year.  If we lose 18 MLAs in the new situation after a quick election then there would be a saving in salaries and expenses.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: armaghniac on January 06, 2017, 06:15:28 PM
Foster's arrogance knows no bounds.

Indeed. She makes my boss look self effacing.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 06, 2017, 06:32:36 PM
Does anyone remember the old "For Mash get Smash" ad on TV?

Well, The Ulster Fry nail the RHI with a re make of their ad

https://mobile.twitter.com/UlsterFryNI/status/816999770665402368
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 06, 2017, 06:39:53 PM
Does anyone remember the old "For Mash get Smash" ad on TV?

Well, The Ulster Fry nail the RHI with a re make of their ad

https://mobile.twitter.com/UlsterFryNI/status/816999770665402368

Has to be the best yet!
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Applesisapples on January 09, 2017, 10:06:14 AM
Sugden will need to join the DUP to get re-elected in the 90 seat assembly.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Avondhu star on January 09, 2017, 02:22:42 PM
Stormont is a glorified county council. The sooner it is reduced in size the better. Jobs for the boys and girls like all the community worker posts being used to keep the ex paramitary scum in line
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Shamrock Shore on January 09, 2017, 02:57:04 PM
Seems like there is now an election.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Tubberman on January 09, 2017, 03:02:17 PM
Seems like there is now an election.

Not resigning until 5pm - will Arlene stand down in the mean time. Unlikely it would seem.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: vallankumous on January 09, 2017, 03:04:22 PM
No doubt she received this news earlier. Her response will be out soon I'd say.
If she had any sense she will resign at 4.45 this evening and take the wind outa McGuinness.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Shamrock Shore on January 09, 2017, 03:09:51 PM
"If she had any sense"

I'll stop you there.

Far from me to comment on politicians Ap Nart but from what I can see she is displaying Haugheyian levels of neck here.

But what good will an election do - she'll come back with a fresh mandate as will the Shinners due to themmuns not voting ever for dudderones.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: vallankumous on January 09, 2017, 03:13:42 PM
"If she had any sense"

I'll stop you there.

Far from me to comment on politicians Ap Nart but from what I can see she is displaying Haugheyian levels of neck here.

But what good will an election do - she'll come back with a fresh mandate as will the Shinners due to themmuns not voting ever for dudderones.

Maybe. If there was someone in the DUP with ambition, the iron is hot.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Minder on January 09, 2017, 03:16:34 PM
@SJAMcBride Martin McGuinness resignation now means: 1) No Stormont RHI inquiry of any sort; 2) No emergency legislation to cap RHI costs rising by day
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on January 09, 2017, 03:17:38 PM
SF's own polling must be better than I thought.  Big risk for SF in an election.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: WT4E on January 09, 2017, 03:19:55 PM
Fair fcuks to Marty - Someone had  to put an end to Arlenes nonsense - at least he had the balls to do it!
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Tony Baloney on January 09, 2017, 03:20:13 PM
As TYP or someone said earlier this will work in favour of both SF and DUP as the reduction in MLA numbers will see a smaller number of SDLP, Ind and UU returned thereby nailing any form of opposition (poor as it is). MMG sure as hell isn't resigning over Arlene Foster.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 09, 2017, 03:26:36 PM
As TYP or someone said earlier this will work in favour of both SF and DUP as the reduction in MLA numbers will see a smaller number of SDLP, Ind and UU returned thereby nailing any form of opposition (poor as it is). MMG sure as hell isn't resigning over Arlene Foster.

This might happen Tony but it depends on election strategy and vote management e.g. they may run fewer candidates where they only have one seat in order to protect it.

Some SF MLAs will be affected as final candidates elected in some areas, e.g. O'Dowd would be a high profile loss or his running mate Seeley would have to be ditched.

All parties will have to rethink their tactics and PBP will be rubbing their hands at the thought of taking a second seat in West Belfast and possibly Derry if the other independent didn't stand.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 09, 2017, 03:29:05 PM
McGuinness looks seriously ill the picture on the BBC website:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-northern-ireland-38561446 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-northern-ireland-38561446)
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Applesisapples on January 09, 2017, 03:35:40 PM
McGuinness had no choice, not just on the RHI scandal, but also on equality and legacy issues.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: WT4E on January 09, 2017, 03:43:32 PM
Marina Anderson has said Martin is unwell - Does anyone know what is the health problem - hope its not too serious!
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on January 09, 2017, 03:46:36 PM
McGuinness had no choice, not just on the RHI scandal, but also on equality and legacy issues.

SF strategy seems to be - if we're seen to have "removed" Foster, we might be OK in an election.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: johnneycool on January 09, 2017, 04:00:52 PM
McGuinness had no choice, not just on the RHI scandal, but also on equality and legacy issues.

SF strategy seems to be - if we're seen to have "removed" Foster, we might be OK in an election.

IMO SF had no other option if Arlene and the DUP kept going the way they were going. They'd have lost a lot of votes for allowing the DUP to walk all over them if they didn't do something.


It'll be interesting how Mike TV, Durkin and Long react if Arlene tries to turn this into a demmuns and ussuns issue rather than her ineptitude!
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: seafoid on January 09, 2017, 04:03:57 PM
McGuinness looks seriously ill the picture on the BBC website:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-northern-ireland-38561446 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-northern-ireland-38561446)
MEP Martina Anderson

@M_AndersonSF
@M_McGuinness_SF As unwell as Martin is, he still oozes strength, dignity & leadership - he is my leader & I am so proud of him
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on January 09, 2017, 04:06:17 PM
McGuinness had no choice, not just on the RHI scandal, but also on equality and legacy issues.

SF strategy seems to be - if we're seen to have "removed" Foster, we might be OK in an election.

IMO SF had no other option if Arlene and the DUP kept going the way they were going. They'd have lost a lot of votes for allowing the DUP to walk all over them if they didn't do something.


It'll be interesting how Mike TV, Durkin and Long react if when Arlene tries to turn this into a demmuns and ussuns issue rather than her ineptitude!

All she has to do is say "SF First Minister" and the votes will roll back in.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on January 09, 2017, 04:10:43 PM
McGuinness had no choice, not just on the RHI scandal, but also on equality and legacy issues.

SF strategy seems to be - if we're seen to have "removed" Foster, we might be OK in an election.

IMO SF had no other option if Arlene and the DUP kept going the way they were going. They'd have lost a lot of votes for allowing the DUP to walk all over them if they didn't do something.


It'll be interesting how Mike TV, Durkin and Long react if when Arlene tries to turn this into a demmuns and ussuns issue rather than her ineptitude!

All she has to do is say "SF First Minister" and the votes will roll back in.

or 'boilers for everyone!!!!!!
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Rois on January 09, 2017, 04:17:20 PM
The non-DUP parties need to make this election about Brexit and force the DUPers into saying silly things about it. That's the only chance of at least separating out the sensible DUP voters from those who will never consider anything else. 
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Franko on January 09, 2017, 04:20:05 PM
The non-DUP parties need to make this election about Brexit and force the DUPers into saying silly things about it. That's the only chance of at least separating out the sensible DUP voters from those who will never consider anything else.

+1 - Brexit is a massive card to be played here, especially as the electorate overwhelmingly defied the DUP's proposed stance on it.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Applesisapples on January 09, 2017, 04:22:19 PM
The non-DUP parties need to make this election about Brexit and force the DUPers into saying silly things about it. That's the only chance of at least separating out the sensible DUP voters from those who will never consider anything else.

+1 - Brexit is a massive card to be played here, especially as the electorate overwhelmingly defied the DUP's proposed stance on it.
It won't matter the DUP vote will hold as an anti SF/Parity vote.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Minder on January 09, 2017, 04:32:20 PM
McGuinness doesent sound well at all
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: haranguerer on January 09, 2017, 04:34:33 PM
Looks like a SF cover up for DUP:

1. RHI scheme will continue unabated and the cost to the public rises by the day

2. No investigation or enquiry into the RHI scandal for the foreseeable future and this will not only protect Foster and Bell but all members of the executive who have known about the cost of the scheme to the public since they arrived in post last year and who did nothing about it until the BBC and Newsletter brought it to the public in December.  Surely any finance minister worth his salt would have known what was happening and done something about it last May/June to allow a budget to be produced for 2017-18 and not be huffing and puffing when the economy minister moved on to construct a scheme to resolve the costs.

3. Prevents any further investigation into the NAMA scandal after it has been exposed at the weekend that DUP and SF moved to halt an investigation into the Mackay/Bryson situation by preventing it being passed to the standards commissioner to examine the behaviour of each committee member.  DUP working with SF despite calling for the finance minister to temporarily stand aside during an investigation. http://sluggerotoole.com/2017/01/08/quiet-executive-cooperation-makes-part-of-nama-investigation-go-away (http://sluggerotoole.com/2017/01/08/quiet-executive-cooperation-makes-part-of-nama-investigation-go-away)

It was a SF cover up when they weren't doing anything, and its still a SF cover up now they are, so I think no matter what they do it will be  a SF cover up in your book
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Franko on January 09, 2017, 04:35:08 PM
The non-DUP parties need to make this election about Brexit and force the DUPers into saying silly things about it. That's the only chance of at least separating out the sensible DUP voters from those who will never consider anything else.

+1 - Brexit is a massive card to be played here, especially as the electorate overwhelmingly defied the DUP's proposed stance on it.
It won't matter the DUP vote will hold as an anti SF/Parity vote.

It might push a few of the more level headed voters towards the UUP.  If this, combined with the lower seat numbers managed to take the DUP below the magic 30, the POC veto card that the bigots loved to play would be off the table.  That in itself would be huge.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: FarneyMan on January 09, 2017, 04:36:32 PM
McGuinness doesent sound well at all

Heard a rumour he has Cancer.....
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: BennyCake on January 09, 2017, 04:44:11 PM
McGuinness doesent sound well at all

Heard a rumour he has Cancer.....

I heard Alzheimer's. But definitely doesn't look or sound well.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 09, 2017, 05:07:55 PM
Looks like a SF cover up for DUP:

1. RHI scheme will continue unabated and the cost to the public rises by the day

2. No investigation or enquiry into the RHI scandal for the foreseeable future and this will not only protect Foster and Bell but all members of the executive who have known about the cost of the scheme to the public since they arrived in post last year and who did nothing about it until the BBC and Newsletter brought it to the public in December.  Surely any finance minister worth his salt would have known what was happening and done something about it last May/June to allow a budget to be produced for 2017-18 and not be huffing and puffing when the economy minister moved on to construct a scheme to resolve the costs.

3. Prevents any further investigation into the NAMA scandal after it has been exposed at the weekend that DUP and SF moved to halt an investigation into the Mackay/Bryson situation by preventing it being passed to the standards commissioner to examine the behaviour of each committee member.  DUP working with SF despite calling for the finance minister to temporarily stand aside during an investigation. http://sluggerotoole.com/2017/01/08/quiet-executive-cooperation-makes-part-of-nama-investigation-go-away (http://sluggerotoole.com/2017/01/08/quiet-executive-cooperation-makes-part-of-nama-investigation-go-away)

It was a SF cover up when they weren't doing anything, and its still a SF cover up now they are, so I think no matter what they do it will be  a SF cover up in your book

Correct it is a continuation of action to protect SF ministers and not to hold DUP to account.

All it took was for SF to join others in calling for a full public enquiry.  SF knew that by calling for Foster to stand aside it would never happen and create an impasse that only resignation by McGuinness would be the next move.  O'Muilleor wouldn't stand aside when challenged about the Nama enquiry-Mackay-Bryson so there was never going to be a chance Foster would stand aside at SF request.

An election will cost the taxpayers more, throw workers in the voluntary sector out of their jobs and resolve nothing as far as RHI goes.  Will be interesting to see if a new Executive is formed in the next financial year whether SF will continue with Finance or is the election a let out for them.

No capital investment can be decided to use the new money from Treasury after the Autumn Statement and so construction workers lose out again.

Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Rossfan on January 09, 2017, 05:15:50 PM
Load of overtime for Tommy " Stormont crisis" Gorman.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: uimhr ocht on January 09, 2017, 05:18:45 PM
martins resignation means arlene isnt first minister anymore, she refused to budge and step aside until an enquiry happened but the irish language,equality,co operation,etc were behind it too.The dup campaign will be make sure no sinn fein first minister when the election begins. you would hope the uup could gain due to the corrupt heating scandel i wouldnt be to sure though.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: armaghniac on January 09, 2017, 05:24:14 PM
The non-DUP parties need to make this election about Brexit and force the DUPers into saying silly things about it. That's the only chance of at least separating out the sensible DUP voters from those who will never consider anything else.

The best thing of all would be a cross party pro GFA arrangement of some sort,  on the basis that trade relations in Ireland should not be changed over the heads of the people. This would put the heat under the UU, who identified Brexit as a threat to peace and then voted for it, and the PBP shower who would vote for anything if it was the other way from SF.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Avondhu star on January 09, 2017, 05:27:05 PM
McGuinness doesent sound well at all

Heard a rumour he has Cancer.....

Pretty useless information
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: yellowcard on January 09, 2017, 06:48:55 PM
Foster is a complete embarrassment, in what other country would she still be clinging to power.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Hereiam on January 09, 2017, 06:54:55 PM
In all honesty what is gona change. All this has shown is that it is the advisors who call the shots over here
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: vallankumous on January 09, 2017, 07:14:33 PM
Foster is a complete embarrassment, in what other country would she still be clinging to power.

In almost all other Countries.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Minder on January 09, 2017, 07:23:32 PM
McGuinness doesent sound well at all

Heard a rumour he has Cancer.....

I heard Alzheimer's. But definitely doesn't look or sound well.

I think it's Gerry has Alzheimer's........
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: stew on January 09, 2017, 08:28:12 PM
I wonder if Martin was working for the brits as a ........ You know......... Tout?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Orior on January 09, 2017, 08:42:40 PM
McGuinness doesent sound well at all

Heard a rumour he has Cancer.....

I heard Alzheimer's. But definitely doesn't look or sound well.

I heard cancer. He looked really terrible.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: armaghniac on January 09, 2017, 09:01:36 PM
McGuinness doesent sound well at all

Heard a rumour he has Cancer.....

I heard Alzheimer's. But definitely doesn't look or sound well.

I heard cancer. He looked really terrible.

Alzheimer's might not affect your physical appearance at all. Cancer treatment might make you look poorly even if it was doing you good in the long run. RTÉ have described a heart condition.

It is sad to see him so unwell, he has made a great contribution and I don't see who of equal calibre will replace him
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Main Street on January 09, 2017, 09:02:32 PM
Foster is a complete embarrassment, in what other country would she still be clinging to power.

In almost all other Countries.
NI ain't a country.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: podge on January 09, 2017, 09:08:10 PM
Would the SDLP/UUP 'opposition' have the balls to have an election pact in certain locations with a view to damaging the 2 main parties.  Perhaps a big gamble but given the  political decline of both parties, perhaps a gamble worth taking.  It would be great to see a NI election that was about more than a sectarian headcount but I cant see it happening
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 09, 2017, 09:21:47 PM
As Lenin once said "“There are decades where nothing happens; and there are weeks where decades happen.”
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Gaffer on January 09, 2017, 09:27:15 PM
RTE has just reported that Martin McGuinness is frail from treatment he has received for a rare heart condition which was diagnosed before Xmas.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 09, 2017, 09:48:02 PM
Would the SDLP/UUP 'opposition' have the balls to have an election pact in certain locations with a view to damaging the 2 main parties.  Perhaps a big gamble but given the  political decline of both parties, perhaps a gamble worth taking.  It would be great to see a NI election that was about more than a sectarian headcount but I cant see it happening

Pacts are irrelevant in the assembly elections because of the Single Transferable Vote. Pacts are only useful in First Past the Post elections like in Westminster.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 09, 2017, 09:48:34 PM
McGuinness doesent sound well at all

Heard a rumour he has Cancer.....

I heard Alzheimer's. But definitely doesn't look or sound well.

I heard cancer. He looked really terrible.

I hear it's cancer.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: seafoid on January 09, 2017, 09:50:15 PM
http://www.rte.ie/player/ch/show/rte-news-special-1516/10671836/
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Main Street on January 09, 2017, 09:53:30 PM
I got a shock looking at the pictures of Martin McGuinness, whatever medical issue he's going through it has taken a very serious toll on his vitality, he looks like a feeble 80 year old, very sad to see.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Real Talk on January 09, 2017, 09:56:22 PM
Would the SDLP/UUP 'opposition' have the balls to have an election pact in certain locations with a view to damaging the 2 main parties.  Perhaps a big gamble but given the  political decline of both parties, perhaps a gamble worth taking.  It would be great to see a NI election that was about more than a sectarian headcount but I cant see it happening

Pacts are irrelevant in the assembly elections because of the Single Transferable Vote. Pacts are only useful in First Past the Post elections like in Westminster.
Wrong .... TV Mike says if you vote Mike you also get Colum.....  ;D
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: seafoid on January 09, 2017, 09:56:32 PM
It's trína chéile.  The Protestant brain brain leaves the DUP rather short of talent.
And thall i Sasana the politics look like a hard Brexit which will really hurt in NI.
Plus the global economy is on a very shaky scraw
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: bennydorano on January 09, 2017, 09:56:59 PM
So an election & 3 month hiatus until we return to the exact same situation?

Go CISTA
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: randomusername on January 09, 2017, 09:58:07 PM
It's trína chéile.  The Protestant brain brain leaves the DUP rather short of talent.
And thall i Sasana the politics look like a hard Brexit which will really hurt in NI.
Plus the global economy is on a very shaky scraw

The young Shinners up north aren't much better in my experience.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 09, 2017, 10:18:44 PM
It's trína chéile.  The Protestant brain brain leaves the DUP rather short of talent.
And thall i Sasana the politics look like a hard Brexit which will really hurt in NI.
Plus the global economy is on a very shaky scraw

The young Shinners up north aren't much better in my experience.

Chosen for loyalty and obedience and reliance on not using own initiative. Thinking will be done elsewhere.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: randomusername on January 09, 2017, 10:20:32 PM
It's trína chéile.  The Protestant brain brain leaves the DUP rather short of talent.
And thall i Sasana the politics look like a hard Brexit which will really hurt in NI.
Plus the global economy is on a very shaky scraw

The young Shinners up north aren't much better in my experience.

Chosen for loyalty and obedience and reliance on not using own initiative. Thinking will be done elsewhere.

Most young intelligent folk in the north seem completely disengaged from politics in my experience or tend to be quite moderate in outlook. Will be interesting to see how it plays out in the coming decades, though the DUP seem to have least in common with young people, who tend to be pretty liberal.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 09, 2017, 10:22:51 PM
It's trína chéile.  The Protestant brain brain leaves the DUP rather short of talent.
And thall i Sasana the politics look like a hard Brexit which will really hurt in NI.
Plus the global economy is on a very shaky scraw

The young Shinners up north aren't much better in my experience.

Chosen for loyalty and obedience and reliance on not using own initiative. Thinking will be done elsewhere.

Most young intelligent folk in the north seem completely disengaged from politics in my experience or tend to be quite moderate in outlook.

Correct. 
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 09, 2017, 10:25:47 PM
Would the SDLP/UUP 'opposition' have the balls to have an election pact in certain locations with a view to damaging the 2 main parties.  Perhaps a big gamble but given the  political decline of both parties, perhaps a gamble worth taking.  It would be great to see a NI election that was about more than a sectarian headcount but I cant see it happening

Pacts are irrelevant in the assembly elections because of the Single Transferable Vote. Pacts are only useful in First Past the Post elections like in Westminster.

Except where vote transfers can be managed between candidates to maximise return.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: vallankumous on January 09, 2017, 10:36:24 PM
Irish politics is going to miss Martin McGuinness but irish history will serve him well.

Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: ziggysego on January 09, 2017, 10:39:47 PM
So an election & 3 month hiatus until we return to the exact same situation?

Go CISTA

CISTA forgot to keep their registration up-to-date. As of last week, CISTA no longer exist as a political party.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: yellowcard on January 09, 2017, 11:04:47 PM
Foster in her 8 months in charge has managed to campaign heavily in favour of Brexit, supported an alleged abuser of women within her own party (Bell), played the sexist card and now played the sectarian card. A disaster of a leader who were she not propped up by the bigoted electorate within Unionism, there would be total uproar. To what extent all of these issues have damaged her, if any, will be interesting to see.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Ronnie on January 10, 2017, 12:19:52 AM
The non-DUP parties need to make this election about Brexit and force the DUPers into saying silly things about it. That's the only chance of at least separating out the sensible DUP voters from those who will never consider anything else.

The best thing of all would be a cross party pro GFA arrangement of some sort,  on the basis that trade relations in Ireland should not be changed over the heads of the people. This would put the heat under the UU, who identified Brexit as a threat to peace and then voted for it, and the PBP shower who would vote for anything if it was the other way from SF.


May's hands-off approach to Stormont is directly related to her position in her own party and its reliance on the DUP's MPs. Similar to the DUP's attitude to the GFA, the UK was never fully committed to Europe and the benefits were never fully reciprocated.  These were Treaties, not something to be cherry-picked.  The EU will miss them but the project continues, possibly with even further integration.  A lot of recent decisions wouldn't be tolerated at Westminster:  changing the RHI scheme, the serving of politico-developer interests in planning matters, NAMA and the £7m in off-shore accounts, Red Sky, legislation dictated by religious beliefs e.g. precluding the donation of 'gay blood' and gay marriage.  The vast majority of people who live here are broadly liberal across gender, religion, sexual preference and race.  The problem is that the vast majority also vote with the fear of 'our side and their side'.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: bennydorano on January 10, 2017, 07:46:20 AM
So an election & 3 month hiatus until we return to the exact same situation?

Go CISTA

CISTA forgot to keep their registration up-to-date. As of last week, CISTA no longer exist as a political party.
Ha. I can imagine the memes & headlines
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: seafoid on January 10, 2017, 07:54:02 AM
How many protestant Unionists are there ?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 10, 2017, 09:06:59 AM
So an election & 3 month hiatus until we return to the exact same situation?

Go CISTA

CISTA forgot to keep their registration up-to-date. As of last week, CISTA no longer exist as a political party.


Dopey crowd.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Real Talk on January 10, 2017, 09:20:00 AM
The non-DUP parties need to make this election about Brexit and force the DUPers into saying silly things about it. That's the only chance of at least separating out the sensible DUP voters from those who will never consider anything else.

The best thing of all would be a cross party pro GFA arrangement of some sort,  on the basis that trade relations in Ireland should not be changed over the heads of the people. This would put the heat under the UU, who identified Brexit as a threat to peace and then voted for it, and the PBP shower who would vote for anything if it was the other way from SF.


May's hands-off approach to Stormont is directly related to her position in her own party and its reliance on the DUP's MPs. Similar to the DUP's attitude to the GFA, the UK was never fully committed to Europe and the benefits were never fully reciprocated.  These were Treaties, not something to be cherry-picked.  The EU will miss them but the project continues, possibly with even further integration.  A lot of recent decisions wouldn't be tolerated at Westminster:  changing the RHI scheme, the serving of politico-developer interests in planning matters, NAMA and the £7m in off-shore accounts, Red Sky, legislation dictated by religious beliefs e.g. precluding the donation of 'gay blood' and gay marriage.  The vast majority of people who live here are broadly liberal across gender, religion, sexual preference and race.  The problem is that the vast majority also vote with the fear of 'our side and their side'.

'Spot on' analysis of the actual political (its never about reacting to the normal Right and Left ideals) .... because its an artificially contrived state
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: ashman on January 10, 2017, 09:37:33 AM
This story in fairly well down the food chain on the mainland .
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: johnneycool on January 10, 2017, 10:49:08 AM
This story in fairly well down the food chain on the mainland .

True,
  The only concerns they have over this is that if May is unsuccessful in the Supreme Court and has to consult the regions and if there's going to be a Stormont Executive to consult with and that may delay the triggering of article 50.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on January 10, 2017, 10:51:21 AM
This story in fairly well down the food chain on the mainland .

True, maybe someone should point out that the other £500 mill that RHI is costing is coming from them!
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: ashman on January 10, 2017, 11:04:59 AM
This story in fairly well down the food chain on the mainland .

True, maybe someone should point out that the other £500 mill that RHI is costing is coming from them!

The 500 mill is from the block grant as I understand .  The average Limey don't give two fooks how the North spends that dosh .
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 10, 2017, 11:54:08 AM
The actual cost is over a £1bn over the 20 year contracts.  Half from the block grant which should be spent on health and education instead of ash and the other half is from the British Treasury which would enrage the little Englanders if they had a clue that it was happening.

The key to the scandal is that the cap on the costs was removed in N.Ireland in the belief that the Treasury would pay the whole subsidy for the ash.  DETI ministers were keener on the half crown than the Crown. Foster was happy for the Treasury to subsidise the boiler men but the proverbial hit the fan when it dawned on her that the Treasury would only become liable for half of the subsidy.

Then when it became apparent that £20m to £25m each year for 20 years would be taken from the block grant and paid for ash, it was covered up by all in the executive including the SF Finance minister who did nothing since coming into power to recover the funds.  With £25m being lost per year being a mere drop in the ocean of the £10bn block grant (0.25%), it would have been hoped that no one would check that level of detail in the expenditure.  Finance dept was in this scandal along with everyone else, no proper controls on expenditure or action to recover costs.  Nothing was done by the Executive to recovery the money until BBC broadcast about the scandal in December 2016.

Any wonder a full public enquiry from DUP was rejected by SF by going for an unnecessary election while the expensive ash piles up around the country.  None of their new shopping list of complaints was in their draft programme for government published in December.  No budget was produced either after all the time available and it will now pass to civil service under SoS direction who will be given the blame by the former executive parties for trying to square the circle of the finances.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 10, 2017, 11:59:54 AM
The actual cost is over a £1bn over the 20 year contracts.  Half from the block grant which should be spent on health and education instead of ash and the other half is from the British Treasury which would enrage the little Englanders if they had a clue that it was happening.

The key to the scandal is that the cap on the costs was removed in N.Ireland in the belief that the Treasury would pay the whole subsidy for the ash.  DETI ministers were keener on the half crown than the Crown. Foster was happy for the Treasury to subsidise the boiler men but the proverbial hit the fan when it dawned on her that the Treasury would only become liable for half of the subsidy.

Then when it became apparent that £20m to £25m each year for 20 years would be taken from the block grant and paid for ash, it was covered up by all in the executive including the SF Finance minister who did nothing since coming into power to recover the funds.  With £25m being lost per year being a mere drop in the ocean of the £10bn block grant (0.25%), it would have been hoped that no one would check that level of detail in the expenditure.  Finance dept was in this scandal along with everyone else, no proper controls on expenditure or action to recover costs.  Nothing was done by the Executive to recovery the money until BBC broadcast about the scandal in December 2016.

Any wonder a full public enquiry from DUP was rejected by SF by going for an unnecessary election while the expensive ash piles up around the country.  None of their new shopping list of complaints was in their draft programme for government published in December.  No budget was produced either after all the time available and it will now pass to civil service under SoS direction who will be given the blame by the former executive parties for trying to square the circle of the finances.

Despite the £500 million overspend, Máirtín Ó Muilleoir has said the scrapping of a £50,000 Irish language bursary scheme was the “straw that broke the camel’s back”


http://www.irishnews.com/news/politicalnews/2017/01/10/news/scrapping-of-irish-language-bursary-straw-that-broke-the-camel-s-back--877103/?param=ds441rif44T
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on January 10, 2017, 12:06:13 PM
The Guardian is reporting that MMG is expected to announce he won't stand in election.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: MoChara on January 10, 2017, 01:07:55 PM
The Guardian is reporting that MMG is expected to announce he won't stand in election.

I'd be very surprised if he does I think he was going to resign anyway but this was a bit of political expediency, he looks a very ill man with the strong rumors of leukemia
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 10, 2017, 01:58:35 PM

Despite the £500 million overspend, Máirtín Ó Muilleoir has said the scrapping of a £50,000 Irish language bursary scheme was the “straw that broke the camel’s back”


http://www.irishnews.com/news/politicalnews/2017/01/10/news/scrapping-of-irish-language-bursary-straw-that-broke-the-camel-s-back--877103/?param=ds441rif44T

If that was correct you would have expected to see:

1. An Irish Act included in the draft programme for government but not there or any complaint that it wasn't.

2. A link between P Givan cutting the funds and the £250K he is giving to a fund of £500K with the Dept of Education to send two pupils and one teacher from every school to the battlefields of the first world war.  Even when this was announced in virtually the same week. Or even the overspend of £98K by P Givan on his fund of £200K distributed to marching bands. No sign of control of expenditure by the Finance Minister in this issue.

Neither is there.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AhNowRef on January 10, 2017, 02:28:17 PM
Is this not just a case of SF "trying" to partner with the DUPpers and "Trying" to keep going in the vain (as it turns out) hope that the DUP will start playing it fair themselves ....

Its just got to the point where enough is enough ..
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Main Street on January 10, 2017, 02:42:07 PM
The Guardian is reporting that MMG is expected to announce he won't stand in election.

I'd be very surprised if he does I think he was going to resign anyway but this was a bit of political expediency, he looks a very ill man with the strong rumors of leukemia
It would be an obvious decision and a convenient time for him to retire from politics considering his declining health issues  but you are implying some personal  underhand motive towards his decision to resign.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Avondhu star on January 10, 2017, 03:52:30 PM
If Adams went as well it would change the political field greatly North and South
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 10, 2017, 04:11:49 PM
Foster continues to make wee boys of SF by now moving to set up a public inquiry under the 2005 Inquiries Act and it will begin asap while electioneering continues.  To be formally announced in next 24 hours.

SF now the only party not calling for a public enquiry into RHI. 

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/dups-arlene-foster-calls-for-public-inquiry-into-failed-renewable-heating-incentive-scheme-35356679.html (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/dups-arlene-foster-calls-for-public-inquiry-into-failed-renewable-heating-incentive-scheme-35356679.html)

This means that Foster will serve her period out of office while the inquiry is running and no one can object to her return until the full report is published well after the election is over.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AhNowRef on January 10, 2017, 04:56:22 PM
Think SF made it clear that there will be no return for Anti Fester untill "after" the enquiry ..and obviously only if she's let off the hook.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Franko on January 10, 2017, 05:51:24 PM
The actual cost is over a £1bn over the 20 year contracts.  Half from the block grant which should be spent on health and education instead of ash and the other half is from the British Treasury which would enrage the little Englanders if they had a clue that it was happening.

The key to the scandal is that the cap on the costs was removed in N.Ireland in the belief that the Treasury would pay the whole subsidy for the ash.  DETI ministers were keener on the half crown than the Crown. Foster was happy for the Treasury to subsidise the boiler men but the proverbial hit the fan when it dawned on her that the Treasury would only become liable for half of the subsidy.

Then when it became apparent that £20m to £25m each year for 20 years would be taken from the block grant and paid for ash, it was covered up by all in the executive including the SF Finance minister who did nothing since coming into power to recover the funds.  With £25m being lost per year being a mere drop in the ocean of the £10bn block grant (0.25%), it would have been hoped that no one would check that level of detail in the expenditure.  Finance dept was in this scandal along with everyone else, no proper controls on expenditure or action to recover costs.  Nothing was done by the Executive to recovery the money until BBC broadcast about the scandal in December 2016.

Any wonder a full public enquiry from DUP was rejected by SF by going for an unnecessary election while the expensive ash piles up around the country.  None of their new shopping list of complaints was in their draft programme for government published in December.  No budget was produced either after all the time available and it will now pass to civil service under SoS direction who will be given the blame by the former executive parties for trying to square the circle of the finances.

Despite the £500 million overspend, Máirtín Ó Muilleoir has said the scrapping of a £50,000 Irish language bursary scheme was the “straw that broke the camel’s back”


http://www.irishnews.com/news/politicalnews/2017/01/10/news/scrapping-of-irish-language-bursary-straw-that-broke-the-camel-s-back--877103/?param=ds441rif44T

What's wrong with that? The phrase MOM used is 100% appropriate here?? You're tripping over yourself to get criticising SF.  Zero objectivity involved.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 10, 2017, 06:20:18 PM
The actual cost is over a £1bn over the 20 year contracts.  Half from the block grant which should be spent on health and education instead of ash and the other half is from the British Treasury which would enrage the little Englanders if they had a clue that it was happening.

The key to the scandal is that the cap on the costs was removed in N.Ireland in the belief that the Treasury would pay the whole subsidy for the ash.  DETI ministers were keener on the half crown than the Crown. Foster was happy for the Treasury to subsidise the boiler men but the proverbial hit the fan when it dawned on her that the Treasury would only become liable for half of the subsidy.

Then when it became apparent that £20m to £25m each year for 20 years would be taken from the block grant and paid for ash, it was covered up by all in the executive including the SF Finance minister who did nothing since coming into power to recover the funds.  With £25m being lost per year being a mere drop in the ocean of the £10bn block grant (0.25%), it would have been hoped that no one would check that level of detail in the expenditure.  Finance dept was in this scandal along with everyone else, no proper controls on expenditure or action to recover costs.  Nothing was done by the Executive to recovery the money until BBC broadcast about the scandal in December 2016.

Any wonder a full public enquiry from DUP was rejected by SF by going for an unnecessary election while the expensive ash piles up around the country.  None of their new shopping list of complaints was in their draft programme for government published in December.  No budget was produced either after all the time available and it will now pass to civil service under SoS direction who will be given the blame by the former executive parties for trying to square the circle of the finances.

Despite the £500 million overspend, Máirtín Ó Muilleoir has said the scrapping of a £50,000 Irish language bursary scheme was the “straw that broke the camel’s back”


http://www.irishnews.com/news/politicalnews/2017/01/10/news/scrapping-of-irish-language-bursary-straw-that-broke-the-camel-s-back--877103/?param=ds441rif44T

What's wrong with that? The phrase MOM used is 100% appropriate here?? You're tripping over yourself to get criticising SF.  Zero objectivity involved.

You miss my point which was that the £500 million overspend wasn't enough to break the camels back but the withdrawal of
the £50k grant was. 
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 10, 2017, 06:22:08 PM
Could the Moy Park chickens be coming home to roost?

I won't accept botched solution to RHI scandal - Ó Muilleoir

Sinn Féin MLA Máirtín Ó Muilleoir said today he will not accept any botched solution to the loss of public funds through the DUP’s Renewable Heat Incentive.

Máirtín Ó Muilleoir said:

“Today the DUP Leader Arlene Foster claimed her party had been working on solutions to the RHI issue over the last number of weeks.

“For over seven months I have been requesting credible proposals from the Economy Minister. The DUP minister has brought no plan forward.

“In fact a paper from the Department for the Economy was submitted to my department at 5:55pm on Monday but withdrawn ten minutes later.

“My officials have continued to examine the operation of the scheme.

“Yesterday, Moy Park briefed my officials in relation to new concerns over the RHI scheme.

“That briefing has raised further issues
.

“The operation of this scheme has been botched; I can assure the public that I will not accept a botched solution.”

http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/42996
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Syferus on January 10, 2017, 07:18:41 PM
The northern lads really chose a great time to make a hole of things.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 10, 2017, 07:31:09 PM
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: BennyCake on January 10, 2017, 07:53:52 PM
If Arlene goes, some dick will replace her.

As for this heating scheme costing the taxpayer money, what a load of balls. If this scheme hadn't happened, would your tax bill be any less? No.

At the end of the day, who gives a f**k?!
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 10, 2017, 07:55:41 PM
RHI scandal: Moy Park raises ‘new concerns” with officials about scheme


Northern Ireland’s dominant poultry company has met Government officials over the RHI scheme and raised “new concerns” which are now being investigated, Stormont’s finance minister last night said.

Sinn Fein’s Máirtín Ó Muilleoir said that Moy Park had briefed his officials on Monday about unspecified issues.

Moy Park both directly – through RHI claims of its own – and indirectly via improved facilities and income streams for many of its producers, benefited from the RHI scheme.

More than half the total claimants to the non-domestic RHI scheme were farmers, a large proportion of whom were poultry farmers.

In a statement tonight, Mr Ó Muilleoir said: “My officials have continued to examine the operation of the scheme.

“Yesterday, Moy Park briefed my officials in relation to new concerns over the RHI scheme.

“That briefing has raised further issues.”

The Finance Minister also said that he would not be accepting any “botched solution” to the situation.


The DUP has said that it has a proposal – which seemingly involves retrospectively changing every RHI contract to reduce payments – which would mean “zero cost” to the taxpayer.

The finance minister said that DUP minister Simon Hamilton’s officials had sent his department a paper on the issue at 5.55pm on Monday, but had withdrawn it ten minutes later.

Mr Ó Muilleoir said: “The operation of this scheme has been botched; I can ensure the public that I will not accept a botched solution.”

But Arlene Foster said that her party had “a clear plan in place” to “bring costs under control”.

She said: “Detailed work on cost controls is ongoing and material will be sent to the Department of Finance.

“We want any draft legislation to bring spending into line and the Minister for the Economy will consult with other parties on this.

“Simon [Hamilton] will, later this week, have more to say on both transparency and cost controls.”

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/rhi-scandal-moy-park-raises-new-concerns-with-officials-about-scheme-1-7766374
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 10, 2017, 08:05:06 PM
If Arlene goes, some dick will replace her.

As for this heating scheme costing the taxpayer money, what a load of balls. If this scheme hadn't happened, would your tax bill be any less? No.

At the end of the day, who gives a f**k?!

Correct, no change to the tax bill for anyone.

There would be £85,000 available each day to spend on care for the elderly or more staff in hospitals.  It would pay for 17 more hip replacements each day or an additional 850 care workers.

£31m available every year for 20 years would build 1 new large secondary school and 1 new large primary school each year for 20 years.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Orior on January 10, 2017, 08:38:10 PM
Arlene has some set of balls on her.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Franko on January 10, 2017, 08:40:56 PM
The actual cost is over a £1bn over the 20 year contracts.  Half from the block grant which should be spent on health and education instead of ash and the other half is from the British Treasury which would enrage the little Englanders if they had a clue that it was happening.

The key to the scandal is that the cap on the costs was removed in N.Ireland in the belief that the Treasury would pay the whole subsidy for the ash.  DETI ministers were keener on the half crown than the Crown. Foster was happy for the Treasury to subsidise the boiler men but the proverbial hit the fan when it dawned on her that the Treasury would only become liable for half of the subsidy.

Then when it became apparent that £20m to £25m each year for 20 years would be taken from the block grant and paid for ash, it was covered up by all in the executive including the SF Finance minister who did nothing since coming into power to recover the funds.  With £25m being lost per year being a mere drop in the ocean of the £10bn block grant (0.25%), it would have been hoped that no one would check that level of detail in the expenditure.  Finance dept was in this scandal along with everyone else, no proper controls on expenditure or action to recover costs.  Nothing was done by the Executive to recovery the money until BBC broadcast about the scandal in December 2016.

Any wonder a full public enquiry from DUP was rejected by SF by going for an unnecessary election while the expensive ash piles up around the country.  None of their new shopping list of complaints was in their draft programme for government published in December.  No budget was produced either after all the time available and it will now pass to civil service under SoS direction who will be given the blame by the former executive parties for trying to square the circle of the finances.

Despite the £500 million overspend, Máirtín Ó Muilleoir has said the scrapping of a £50,000 Irish language bursary scheme was the “straw that broke the camel’s back”


http://www.irishnews.com/news/politicalnews/2017/01/10/news/scrapping-of-irish-language-bursary-straw-that-broke-the-camel-s-back--877103/?param=ds441rif44T

What's wrong with that? The phrase MOM used is 100% appropriate here?? You're tripping over yourself to get criticising SF.  Zero objectivity involved.

You miss my point which was that the £500 million overspend wasn't enough to break the camels back but the withdrawal of
the £50k grant was.

Yes, the 50k being the 'straw', ie 'the very light thing' which finally made the whole thing come tumbling down.  The mind boggles here.  SF have made enough fcuk ups in this themselves.  Running around rabidly pointing at anything and trying to make a scandal of it only discredits the legitimate points you try to make... think stew and Hillary Clinton...
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Franko on January 10, 2017, 08:47:07 PM
If Arlene goes, some dick will replace her.

As for this heating scheme costing the taxpayer money, what a load of balls. If this scheme hadn't happened, would your tax bill be any less? No.

At the end of the day, who gives a f**k?!

1. Correct

2. Idiotic statement

3. Quite a few
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: stiffler on January 10, 2017, 09:13:12 PM
Was this scheme to be 100% funded by Treasury at the outset?

Or was it a mammoth f#ck up by DETI not to realise ~ 50% of cost will come out of the Block grant ?

I can't fathom that if DETI knew this would hit the block grant, why they would remove the cap on payments.

Also - DfE must have shown a massive pressure for the spend in the 16/17 financial year. Why didn't the minister flag this long before the Nolan show ?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 10, 2017, 09:35:24 PM
Was this scheme to be 100% funded by Treasury at the outset?

Or was it a mammoth f#ck up by DETI not to realise ~ 50% of cost will come out of the Block grant ?

It was thought by DETI that this would be the case as in England, not thinking that Treasury would claim half back through the block grant

I can't fathom that if DETI knew this would hit the block grant, why they would remove the cap on payments.

Cap removed to get every penny possible from GB as they thought the whole bill would paid by GB

Also - DfE must have shown a massive pressure for the spend in the 16/17 financial year. Why didn't the minister flag this long before the Nolan show ?

So much waste in Executive spending and minister for finance has so little control of it that annual RHI loss was not a major warning sign/problem, P Givan overspent by £98K on a £200k budget for marching bands without control.

Level of incompetence/lack of financial control by executive is not fully measured to date.  Plenty of examples of funding being wasted or used without proper control at executive level especially in public sector.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: BennyCake on January 10, 2017, 11:24:39 PM
If Arlene goes, some dick will replace her.

As for this heating scheme costing the taxpayer money, what a load of balls. If this scheme hadn't happened, would your tax bill be any less? No.

At the end of the day, who gives a f**k?!

Correct, no change to the tax bill for anyone.

There would be £85,000 available each day to spend on care for the elderly or more staff in hospitals.  It would pay for 17 more hip replacements each day or an additional 850 care workers.

£31m available every year for 20 years would build 1 new large secondary school and 1 new large primary school each year for 20 years.

In theory.

And if Britain wasn't blowing up the Middle East, there'd be enough money for schools, hospitals etc.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: BennyCake on January 10, 2017, 11:25:19 PM
If Arlene goes, some dick will replace her.

As for this heating scheme costing the taxpayer money, what a load of balls. If this scheme hadn't happened, would your tax bill be any less? No.

At the end of the day, who gives a f**k?!

1. Correct

2. Idiotic statement

3. Quite a few

2. Explain how.

3. Ok I suppose what I should've said is, what can anyone do about it? Nothing. The mafia take a chunk of your earnings, and you don't have any say in how it's spent. And no matter how much or little they piss away, you'll never have a say in it. So, once they tax you, it's not your money.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 10, 2017, 11:28:38 PM
If Arlene goes, some dick will replace her.

As for this heating scheme costing the taxpayer money, what a load of balls. If this scheme hadn't happened, would your tax bill be any less? No.

At the end of the day, who gives a f**k?!

Correct, no change to the tax bill for anyone.

There would be £85,000 available each day to spend on care for the elderly or more staff in hospitals.  It would pay for 17 more hip replacements each day or an additional 850 care workers.

£31m available every year for 20 years would build 1 new large secondary school and 1 new large primary school each year for 20 years.

In theory.

And if Britain wasn't blowing up the Middle East, there'd be enough money for schools, hospitals etc.

But the money being lost is already in our block grant not funds held by GB Treasury.  So, we are burning our own money that the executive could have used directly on important areas where they were claiming GB government austerity was harming ordinary people.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: yellowcard on January 10, 2017, 11:37:58 PM
If Arlene goes, some dick will replace her.

As for this heating scheme costing the taxpayer money, what a load of balls. If this scheme hadn't happened, would your tax bill be any less? No.

At the end of the day, who gives a f**k?!

Are you for real, or have you not seen the state of the health service. Plenty of people with morals give a f**k.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: BennyCake on January 10, 2017, 11:51:30 PM
If Arlene goes, some dick will replace her.

As for this heating scheme costing the taxpayer money, what a load of balls. If this scheme hadn't happened, would your tax bill be any less? No.

At the end of the day, who gives a f**k?!

Are you for real, or have you not seen the state of the health service. Plenty of people with morals give a f**k.

Morals yes, but what can ordinary people do? Vote in another shower of useless pricks? Protest? Stormont and Westminster are a squad of arses, screwing up the country. Nothing surprises me what either shower get up to.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Franko on January 11, 2017, 12:03:33 AM
If Arlene goes, some dick will replace her.

As for this heating scheme costing the taxpayer money, what a load of balls. If this scheme hadn't happened, would your tax bill be any less? No.

At the end of the day, who gives a f**k?!

1. Correct

2. Idiotic statement

3. Quite a few

2. Explain how.

3. Ok I suppose what I should've said is, what can anyone do about it? Nothing. The mafia take a chunk of your earnings, and you don't have any say in how it's spent. And no matter how much or little they piss away, you'll never have a say in it. So, once they tax you, it's not your money.

2. Because this money has been given to us to spend.  It's not available to the UK Treasury to spend on bombing the Middle East or whatever folly the failed empire thinks up next.  It's pigeon holed for the north to spend on services here.  And no, the tax bill wouldn't be lessened if it hadn't been spent on RHI.  But it future tax bills may go up because of it.  If you don't see this you're being either deliberately obtuse or idiotic.

3. As a minimum, the fact that Arlene and her fellow DUP bigots have been pulled on this will surely make them more careful not to repeat it.  The other side of your point is that we just say fcuk all and accept it.  And I find that a pretty pathetic way to do things.  Maybe it's attitudes like that that got us here.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on January 11, 2017, 12:07:53 AM
people here are far too rich and comfortable to do anything about the way we are governed. a revolution can only happen when people are poor, and i mean properly poor, like genuinely little food and poor housing, not just struggling by with the iphone 5 and a renault clio. we have been bought and paid for long ago.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: BennyCake on January 11, 2017, 12:17:40 AM
Franko,

2. Does the cost of Britain's wars not lessen the amount allocated to Stormont? So if your tax bill goes up next year because of RHI, what will you do about it? Nothing, that's what. Just like rest of us.

3. So what do you propose we do about it? No amount of pissing and moaning, protesting or tweeting with make any difference. It's their money, not ours. The only way to change anything is follow Mikhail's suggestion.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Franko on January 11, 2017, 12:38:36 AM
Franko,

2. Does the cost of Britain's wars not lessen the amount allocated to Stormont? So if your tax bill goes up next year because of RHI, what will you do about it? Nothing, that's what. Just like rest of us.

3. So what do you propose we do about it? No amount of pissing and moaning, protesting or tweeting with make any difference. It's their money, not ours. The only way to change anything is follow Mikhail's suggestion.

Yes, most likely.  The only option I have is to use my vote to get rid of those pissing my taxes away.  If everyone did likewise, we'd see a change.

Right, so how would you and Mikhail's revolution look?  Are you two going to jump into the Clio and drive it through the doors of Stormont?  You see, the thing is, it's going to need popular support to make it even nearly viable.  And it won't have it.  I doubt you'd even fill the back seats at this stage.  So we're back to the aul ballot box.

If your only two options are to start a revolution (lol) or do nothing, then I pick neither.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: BennyCake on January 11, 2017, 12:46:02 AM
Franko,

2. Does the cost of Britain's wars not lessen the amount allocated to Stormont? So if your tax bill goes up next year because of RHI, what will you do about it? Nothing, that's what. Just like rest of us.

3. So what do you propose we do about it? No amount of pissing and moaning, protesting or tweeting with make any difference. It's their money, not ours. The only way to change anything is follow Mikhail's suggestion.

Yes, most likely.  The only option I have is to use my vote to get rid of those pissing my taxes away.  If everyone did likewise, we'd see a change.

Right, so how would you and Mikhail's revolution look?  Are you two going to jump into the Clio and drive it through the doors of Stormont?  You see, the thing is, it's going to need popular support to make it even nearly viable.  And it won't have it.  I doubt you'd even fill the back seats at this stage.  So we're back to the aul ballot box.

If your only two options are to start a revolution (lol) or do nothing, then I pick neither.

Vote by all means if you think it'll change. I wouldn't hold my breath though.

Here, Mikhail's the man with the revolution idea, not me!  ;D
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: seafoid on January 11, 2017, 07:03:28 AM
Now she wants an inquiry.If she offered it in Irish would the Shinners go back in?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: gallsman on January 11, 2017, 07:06:54 AM
Talk of revolution ffs. People have been listening to Gerry Carroll for too long.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Applesisapples on January 11, 2017, 09:01:20 AM
I have been critical of SF recently, particularly in relation to their propping up of the DUP. The DUP have an agenda to deny Irishness and Irish culture whilst funding loyalists with paramilitary links and funding those cultural icons that are the marching (flute) bands. SF have had no choice in pulling the plug and should not re-enter any executive without guarantees on equality.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Applesisapples on January 11, 2017, 09:03:08 AM
On a different tack, given that the population here is somewhere around 45% nationalist 49% Unionist why do unionist parties get 10 or 11 seats more?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: screenexile on January 11, 2017, 09:17:01 AM
On a different tack, given that the population here is somewhere around 45% nationalist 49% Unionist why do unionist parties get 10 or 11 seats more?

It's to do with constituency boundaries. A bit like the electoral college in the US Trump won the most states but lost the popular vote by some margin. Gerrymandering is alive and well in todays world!
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on January 11, 2017, 09:34:43 AM
On a different tack, given that the population here is somewhere around 45% nationalist 49% Unionist why do unionist parties get 10 or 11 seats more?

It's to do with constituency boundaries. A bit like the electoral college in the US Trump won the most states but lost the popular vote by some margin. Gerrymandering is alive and well in todays world!

This, plus in the last couple or three elections nationalists have been staying at home more.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 11, 2017, 09:36:35 AM
On a different tack, given that the population here is somewhere around 45% nationalist 49% Unionist why do unionist parties get 10 or 11 seats more?

It's to do with constituency boundaries. A bit like the electoral college in the US Trump won the most states but lost the popular vote by some margin. Gerrymandering is alive and well in todays world!

It's hardly gerrymandering that most nationalist live in constituencies that are west of the Bann.  Many constituencies are predominantly one side or the other due to polarisation of residency.  You could further gerrymander in Belfast to be in slightly in favour of nationalists but it would not make a significant difference in seats.  The use of PR provides the most accurate representation of the voting of people in a constituency.

While the percentages of perceived nationalists and unionists are moving closer together, the percentages at voting age are much further apart at this time.   

The percentages would only be translated into seats if there was one party available on both sides.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 11, 2017, 09:53:02 AM
Voting in the 2014 European election was based on a single constituency which eliminates any gerrymandering.  This shows how far behind that nationalists are behind in voting parity with unionist.

SF      159,813
DUP      131,163
UUP      83,438
SDLP      81,594
TUV      75,806
Alliance   44,432
UKIP      24,584
Green   10,598
N21      10,553
Cons      4,144


Nationalist      241,407
      
Unionist      374,120
      
Others      10,598



Nationalist      241407      38.6%
            
Unionist      374120      59.8%
            
Others      10598      1.7%
            

Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: seafoid on January 11, 2017, 10:11:39 AM
Turnout was 54% 7 months ago. Might be lower now. There could be enough margin for a higher overall nationalist vote.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: armaghniac on January 11, 2017, 10:20:54 AM
It is a bit like Brexit in England. The 60+ age group,  who are two thirds unionist,  have a high turnout. The younger groups give out on Facebook,  but don't bother themselves actually going to vote.

And if people want to minimise the impact of Brexit then they should get out and vote for a party that opposes Brexit and wants special recognition of NI's situation. I. E not the unionists and not the PBP.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Franko on January 11, 2017, 10:21:01 AM
Bit of gerrymandering of the figures there TYP?

Given that the Alliance Party fought tooth and nail to get the designation 'other' added to the register in the Belfast Agreement, I think they'd be disappointed that you have taken it upon yourself to label them as unionists.  Poor form.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: BennyCake on January 11, 2017, 10:57:04 AM
It is a bit like Brexit in England. The 60+ age group,  who are two thirds unionist,  have a high turnout. The younger groups give out on Facebook,  but don't bother themselves actually going to vote.

And if people want to minimise the impact of Brexit then they should get out and vote for a party that opposes Brexit and wants special recognition of NI's situation. I. E not the unionists and not the PBP.

So is Alliance or Green Party going to stand up to the boys club in Europe and demand special treatment for Norn Iron?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on January 11, 2017, 11:03:07 AM
On a different tack, given that the population here is somewhere around 45% nationalist 49% Unionist why do unionist parties get 10 or 11 seats more?

It's to do with constituency boundaries. A bit like the electoral college in the US Trump won the most states but lost the popular vote by some margin. Gerrymandering is alive and well in todays world!

It's hardly gerrymandering that most nationalist live in constituencies that are west of the Bann.  Many constituencies are predominantly one side or the other due to polarisation of residency.  You could further gerrymander in Belfast to be in slightly in favour of nationalists but it would not make a significant difference in seats.  The use of PR provides the most accurate representation of the voting of people in a constituency.

While the percentages of perceived nationalists and unionists are moving closer together, the percentages at voting age are much further apart at this time.   

The percentages would only be translated into seats if there was one party available on both sides.

It kind of is gerrymandering if the constituency boundaries are not regularly updated. The new boundaries for the next Westminster elections have the DUP bricking it as North Belfast and Upper Bann are looking like SF gains and they are already demanding that the proposals are changed. Interesting that the last proposals were redrawn using the electoral roll and not census data (norm for rest of the world) which would obviously favour nationalists even more.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: armaghniac on January 11, 2017, 11:14:04 AM
It is a bit like Brexit in England. The 60+ age group,  who are two thirds unionist,  have a high turnout. The younger groups give out on Facebook,  but don't bother themselves actually going to vote.

And if people want to minimise the impact of Brexit then they should get out and vote for a party that opposes Brexit and wants special recognition of NI's situation. I. E not the unionists and not the PBP.

So is Alliance or Green Party going to stand up to the boys club in Europe and demand special treatment for Norn Iron?

You can debate their ability to influence things, but they would "stand up". And the likes of the Greens have important international links in the European parliament etc. Europe is not the problem here, the problem is London and Belfast.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on January 11, 2017, 11:20:39 AM
Voting in the 2014 European election was based on a single constituency which eliminates any gerrymandering.  This shows how far behind that nationalists are behind in voting parity with unionist.

SF      159,813
DUP      131,163
UUP      83,438
SDLP      81,594
TUV      75,806
Alliance   44,432
UKIP      24,584
Green   10,598
N21      10,553
Cons      4,144


Nationalist      241,407
      
Unionist      374,120
      
Others      10,598



Nationalist      241407      38.6%
            
Unionist      374120      59.8%
            
Others      10598      1.7%

Nationalist turnout is poor at the moment compared to say late nineties early noughties when nationalism was hitting 45%, now even including PBP its around 41% when demographics should actually be improving the %.

A couple of points regarding the 2014 European election you need to remember Anna Lo not long before the election stated she wanted a United Ireland so its quite clear that the Alliance vote that year was very very 'green' and is easily proved looking at the Alliance transfers 25000 votes went to SDLP and only 12000 combined to DUP, UUP and TUV. There are no figures for SF transfers because SF had already reached the quota at that stage. I would also say the Green partys rise is mainly due to SDLP voters switching again quite clearly seen by their dramatic rise in SB and at the same time the dramatic decline of SDLP in the same constitiuency
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: ziggysego on January 11, 2017, 12:24:10 PM
CISTA are back. They've had to rename themselves, as a party cannot be re-registered after a lapse.

The are now called CISTA.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Minder on January 11, 2017, 12:57:47 PM
I don't think there will be an election, neither SF or DUP want one, I think we will see this "crisis" averted
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: vallankumous on January 11, 2017, 01:04:46 PM
I don't think there will be an election, neither SF or DUP want one, I think we will see this "crisis" averted

Yes, I think it's time to fly them all of to some Royal Holiday home for negotiations. Then they'll all come back with Holyroodhouse Agreement after a weekend of wine and cheese.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 11, 2017, 01:05:36 PM
Bit of gerrymandering of the figures there TYP?

Given that the Alliance Party fought tooth and nail to get the designation 'other' added to the register in the Belfast Agreement, I think they'd be disappointed that you have taken it upon yourself to label them as unionists.  Poor form.

Really, they are not unionist?  Do they want a united Ireland?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Franko on January 11, 2017, 01:18:50 PM
Bit of gerrymandering of the figures there TYP?

Given that the Alliance Party fought tooth and nail to get the designation 'other' added to the register in the Belfast Agreement, I think they'd be disappointed that you have taken it upon yourself to label them as unionists.  Poor form.

Really, they are not unionist?  Do they want a united Ireland?

They are designated as "other".  They neither aspire to a union with Britain or a UI.

You had an 'others' category but didn't put them into it in order to massage your figures and strengthen your point.  Which is ironic, because deliberately quoting inaccurate numbers means your point has lost all credibility.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: oisinog on January 11, 2017, 01:30:42 PM
Voting in the 2014 European election was based on a single constituency which eliminates any gerrymandering.  This shows how far behind that nationalists are behind in voting parity with unionist.

SF      159,813
DUP      131,163
UUP      83,438
SDLP      81,594
TUV      75,806
Alliance   44,432
UKIP      24,584
Green   10,598
N21      10,553
Cons      4,144


Nationalist      241,407
      
Unionist      374,120
      
Others      10,598



Nationalist      241407      38.6%
            
Unionist      374120      59.8%
            
Others      10598      1.7%

Recorrecting those figures including Alliance as other this is how it stands

Nationalist      241,407 (38.5)

Unionist            319,315 (51.0)

Other               65.583   (10.5)

Of Couse this does not include transfers which could result in lower first choice for all the parties
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 11, 2017, 01:34:18 PM
Not massaging figures but Alliance are unionists and a majority of their vote is captured in areas where nationalists do not make up a significant number, e.g. East Belfast.  Whether they want to categorise themselves as unionists or not it is purely to create from clear water between themselves and the UUP where they fight for the same vote.  They are occupying seats in the Assembly that would previously have gone to the UUP.

BTW I am not making a point with these figures other than to explain why the unionists have more seats than nationalists, i.e. they can turn out more voters than nationalists. Even adding the Alliance to the other group makes little real difference to a unionist majority of the votes being cast:

SF      159,813
DUP      131,163
UUP      83,438
SDLP      81,594
TUV      75,806
Alliance   44,432
UKIP      24,584
Green   10,598
N21      10,553
Cons      4,144


Nationalist      241,407
      
Unionist      329,688
      
Others      55,030



Nationalist      241,407      38.56%
            
Unionist      329,688      52.66%
            
Others      55,030      8.79%
[/quote]

Unionists still have more than half the votes cast.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Franko on January 11, 2017, 01:41:16 PM
Not massaging figures but Alliance are unionists and a majority of their vote is captured in areas where nationalists do not make up a significant number, e.g. East Belfast.  Whether they want to categorise themselves as unionists or not it is purely to create from clear water between themselves and the UUP where they fight for the same vote.  They are occupying seats in the Assembly that would previously have gone to the UUP.

BTW I am not making a point with these figures other than to explain why the unionists have more seats than nationalists, i.e. they can turn out more voters than nationalists. Even adding the Alliance to the other group makes little real difference to a unionist majority of the votes being cast:

SF      159,813
DUP      131,163
UUP      83,438
SDLP      81,594
TUV      75,806
Alliance   44,432
UKIP      24,584
Green   10,598
N21      10,553
Cons      4,144


Nationalist      241,407
      
Unionist      329,688
      
Others      55,030



Nationalist      241,407      38.56%
            
Unionist      329,688      52.66%
            
Others      55,030      8.79%

Unionists still have more than half the votes cast.
[/quote]

I'm sorry TYP, but someone who votes for a party which clearly states that they are not unionist, and who's only MEP has declared that she would vote for a UI given the choice cannot be considered a unionist.  No matter how many times you repeat it and no matter how much you'd like it to be so.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Longshanks on January 11, 2017, 01:45:00 PM
Alliance are not a party I consider unionist at all and are in fact one of the party who speak the most sense and probably one of the more progressive parties.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: ziggysego on January 11, 2017, 01:56:15 PM
Alliance are not a party I consider unionist at all and are in fact one of the party who speak the most sense and probably one of the more progressive parties.

Whilst I agee that Alliance Party are not Unionist, Anna Lo got into some wile trouble from Belfast thugs for dare staying she wants a UI.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: screenexile on January 11, 2017, 02:02:04 PM
Yeah I wouldn't be classing Alliance as either really they shouldn't be included with Unionist/Nationalist.

Also . . .

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 11, 2017, 02:13:18 PM

I'm sorry TYP, but someone who votes for a party which clearly states that they are not unionist, and who's only MEP has declared that she would vote for a UI given the choice cannot be considered a unionist.  No matter how many times you repeat it and no matter how much you'd like it to be so.

You might want to read these articles to see that Alliance is a party which supports the Union but does not believe that MLAs should be designated by nationalist or unionist.

https://sluggerotoole.com/2013/09/22/alliance-party-is-it-really-the-belfast-party/ (https://sluggerotoole.com/2013/09/22/alliance-party-is-it-really-the-belfast-party/)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliance_Party_of_Northern_Ireland#MPs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliance_Party_of_Northern_Ireland#MPs)

It could also link to the discussion on the Rory McIlroy thread.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Longshanks on January 11, 2017, 02:30:06 PM
Forgetting about if they support the union or not.


Surely the whole point is to be progressive and pick a party that can run the country right and have the correct ideals in general, surely a party that isnt involved in the whole us vs them is better for the future.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 11, 2017, 02:30:39 PM
Eight biomass boilers destroyed in Fermanagh shed fire

EIGHT biomass boilers and 14 tonnes of woodchip have been destroyed in a fire at a Co Fermanagh construction firm.

Fire crews from Enniskillen, Irvinestown and Lisnaskea fought the large fire for almost six hours in the early hours of last Friday.

The Northern Ireland Fire and Rescue Service said on Tuesday that investigations were continuing and it was unable to confirm the cause of the blaze.

A fire service spokesman said it received a call at 2.45am to attend the fire in the Magheradunbar area outside Enniskillen.

“A shed, approximately 20m x 12m, was on fire and contained approximately 14 tonnes of woodchip and eight boilers," he said.

"Firefighters worked to extinguish the fire, however a large quantity of woodchip and the eight boilers were destroyed in the fire. The shed was badly damaged."

“The incident was finished at 8.47am. The cause of the fire is under investigation," the spokesman added.

It is not clear when the eight boilers were installed and whether they had been operating with subsidies from the botched Renewable Heating Incentive scheme.

The PSNI confirmed it received a report from the fire service in relation to the fire, but that there was "no requirement for police to attend".

The fire occurred on premises of Gerald Love Contracts - a family-run business which specialises in projects relating to road surfacing, civil engineering and general construction according to the company website.

The company failed to respond to number of requests for comment both on Monday and Tuesday in relation to the fire

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:taFVlkq5J4QJ:www.irishnews.com/news/2017/01/11/news/eight-biomass-boilers-destroyed-in-fermanagh-shed-fire-878829/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on January 11, 2017, 02:41:31 PM
Colum Eastwood is calling for Joint Authority if there is no agreement to set up an Executive.  Two thoughts...1) On that basis I might vote for the SDLP and 2) I wonder what "Vote Mike, Get Colum" Nesbitt makes of that!
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on January 11, 2017, 02:41:47 PM
Serious questions need to be asked why they had 8 biomass boilers in that shed, what was their purpose? Forgive cynical old me but there can be only one reason #ashforcash.

Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on January 11, 2017, 02:43:15 PM
Serious questions need to be asked why they had 8 biomass boilers in that shed, what was their purpose? Forgive cynical old me but there can be only one reason #ashforcash.

I doubt whether Gerald is a DUP donor mind you!
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on January 11, 2017, 02:47:57 PM
Serious questions need to be asked why they had 8 biomass boilers in that shed, what was their purpose? Forgive cynical old me but there can be only one reason #ashforcash.

I doubt whether Gerald is a DUP donor mind you!

I wouldn't have thought so either but what does it matter who or what he is. Doesn't make it any less wrong if he is a DUP donor or not. I'd like to know what required so much heat that he needed 8 boilers.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on January 11, 2017, 02:59:05 PM
Serious questions need to be asked why they had 8 biomass boilers in that shed, what was their purpose? Forgive cynical old me but there can be only one reason #ashforcash.

I doubt whether Gerald is a DUP donor mind you!

I wouldn't have thought so either but what does it matter who or what he is. Doesn't make it any less wrong if he is a DUP donor or not. I'd like to know what required so much heat that he needed 8 boilers.

You're right. I was being a wee bit tongue in cheek
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 11, 2017, 03:28:36 PM
Serious questions need to be asked why they had 8 biomass boilers in that shed, what was their purpose? Forgive cynical old me but there can be only one reason #ashforcash.

http://www.geraldlovecontracts.com (http://www.geraldlovecontracts.com)

Relatively small shed, 20m x 12m, for so much heat.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: johnneycool on January 11, 2017, 03:30:31 PM
Serious questions need to be asked why they had 8 biomass boilers in that shed, what was their purpose? Forgive cynical old me but there can be only one reason #ashforcash.

http://www.geraldlovecontracts.com (http://www.geraldlovecontracts.com)

Relatively small shed, 20m x 12m, for so much heat.


Probably for keeping the tar warm....

Don't be kidding youselves, there'll be plenty of taig lads on this scheme as well once they got wind of it.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 11, 2017, 03:36:31 PM
Serious questions need to be asked why they had 8 biomass boilers in that shed, what was their purpose? Forgive cynical old me but there can be only one reason #ashforcash.

http://www.geraldlovecontracts.com (http://www.geraldlovecontracts.com)

Relatively small shed, 20m x 12m, for so much heat.


Probably for keeping the tar warm....

Don't be kidding youselves, there'll be plenty of taig lads on this scheme as well once they got wind of it.

Of course there are.  The timeline for applications would show that the earliest and possibly greatest number of applications came from one side and the others caught on and caught up later.

It is within the culture of this country to get all you can get for free from the state, as they say, it's coming off a strong back.


Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Franko on January 11, 2017, 04:07:51 PM

I'm sorry TYP, but someone who votes for a party which clearly states that they are not unionist, and who's only MEP has declared that she would vote for a UI given the choice cannot be considered a unionist.  No matter how many times you repeat it and no matter how much you'd like it to be so.

You might want to read these articles to see that Alliance is a party which supports the Union but does not believe that MLAs should be designated by nationalist or unionist.

https://sluggerotoole.com/2013/09/22/alliance-party-is-it-really-the-belfast-party/ (https://sluggerotoole.com/2013/09/22/alliance-party-is-it-really-the-belfast-party/)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliance_Party_of_Northern_Ireland#MPs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliance_Party_of_Northern_Ireland#MPs)

It could also link to the discussion on the Rory McIlroy thread.

A slugger opinion piece (which is VERY light on the content you said it contained) and a wiki article prove nothing.  I could throw up an article where Anna Lo said she'd vote for a UI if you want?  Would that prove they are a Nationalist party?  No matter how much you want to make it so, the Alliance Party are not unionist.  Not in word, deed and most importantly (for the point you were making), in Electoral Commission designation.  It's just a fact.

Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: BennyCake on January 11, 2017, 04:13:55 PM
Serious questions need to be asked why they had 8 biomass boilers in that shed, what was their purpose? Forgive cynical old me but there can be only one reason #ashforcash.

http://www.geraldlovecontracts.com (http://www.geraldlovecontracts.com)

Relatively small shed, 20m x 12m, for so much heat.


Probably for keeping the tar warm....

Don't be kidding youselves, there'll be plenty of taig lads on this scheme as well once they got wind of it.

Of course there are.  The timeline for applications would show that the earliest and possibly greatest number of applications came from one side and the others caught on and caught up later.

It is within the culture of this country to get all you can get for free from the state, as they say, it's coming off a strong back.

And why not? They will screw you at every opportunity, so why not screw them every chance you get?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 11, 2017, 04:41:04 PM
Eight biomass boilers destroyed in Fermanagh shed fire

EIGHT biomass boilers and 14 tonnes of woodchip have been destroyed in a fire at a Co Fermanagh construction firm.

Fire crews from Enniskillen, Irvinestown and Lisnaskea fought the large fire for almost six hours in the early hours of last Friday.

The Northern Ireland Fire and Rescue Service said on Tuesday that investigations were continuing and it was unable to confirm the cause of the blaze.

A fire service spokesman said it received a call at 2.45am to attend the fire in the Magheradunbar area outside Enniskillen.

“A shed, approximately 20m x 12m, was on fire and contained approximately 14 tonnes of woodchip and eight boilers," he said.

"Firefighters worked to extinguish the fire, however a large quantity of woodchip and the eight boilers were destroyed in the fire. The shed was badly damaged."

“The incident was finished at 8.47am. The cause of the fire is under investigation," the spokesman added.

It is not clear when the eight boilers were installed and whether they had been operating with subsidies from the botched Renewable Heating Incentive scheme.

The PSNI confirmed it received a report from the fire service in relation to the fire, but that there was "no requirement for police to attend".

The fire occurred on premises of Gerald Love Contracts - a family-run business which specialises in projects relating to road surfacing, civil engineering and general construction according to the company website.

The company failed to respond to number of requests for comment both on Monday and Tuesday in relation to the fire

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:taFVlkq5J4QJ:www.irishnews.com/news/2017/01/11/news/eight-biomass-boilers-destroyed-in-fermanagh-shed-fire-878829/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

Eight boilers?! In a shed?!
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: seafoid on January 11, 2017, 07:42:05 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/09/the-guardian-view-on-northern-ireland-there-may-be-trouble-ahead
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: StGallsGAA on January 11, 2017, 07:43:05 PM
Eight biomass boilers destroyed in Fermanagh shed fire

EIGHT biomass boilers and 14 tonnes of woodchip have been destroyed in a fire at a Co Fermanagh construction firm.

Fire crews from Enniskillen, Irvinestown and Lisnaskea fought the large fire for almost six hours in the early hours of last Friday.

The Northern Ireland Fire and Rescue Service said on Tuesday that investigations were continuing and it was unable to confirm the cause of the blaze.

A fire service spokesman said it received a call at 2.45am to attend the fire in the Magheradunbar area outside Enniskillen.

“A shed, approximately 20m x 12m, was on fire and contained approximately 14 tonnes of woodchip and eight boilers," he said.

"Firefighters worked to extinguish the fire, however a large quantity of woodchip and the eight boilers were destroyed in the fire. The shed was badly damaged."

“The incident was finished at 8.47am. The cause of the fire is under investigation," the spokesman added.

It is not clear when the eight boilers were installed and whether they had been operating with subsidies from the botched Renewable Heating Incentive scheme.

The PSNI confirmed it received a report from the fire service in relation to the fire, but that there was "no requirement for police to attend".

The fire occurred on premises of Gerald Love Contracts - a family-run business which specialises in projects relating to road surfacing, civil engineering and general construction according to the company website.

The company failed to respond to number of requests for comment both on Monday and Tuesday in relation to the fire

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:taFVlkq5J4QJ:www.irishnews.com/news/2017/01/11/news/eight-biomass-boilers-destroyed-in-fermanagh-shed-fire-878829/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

Eight boilers?! In a shed?!

8 boilers in a shed in Fermanagh would usually mean a brothel.... ;)
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: stiffler on January 11, 2017, 08:33:39 PM
Turns out legislation is in place for mitigating measures for the bedroom tax.


Another OG by Paul Givan claiming the legislation wasn't passed in time.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: omaghjoe on January 11, 2017, 09:02:56 PM
Talk about shutting the door after the horse has bolted with this inquiry call :D :D

Arlene comes across as one of those incompetent managers who is always fire fighting, never proactive, always appearing busy to do anything for you, snappy if you ask them anything and like the incredible hulk if you point the finger.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: armaghniac on January 11, 2017, 09:46:01 PM
Listen lads, when the snow comes tomorrow, Fermanagh will be a green island in the desolate whiteness. Arlene has ensured a warm feeling throughout her constituency.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: seafoid on January 11, 2017, 09:55:57 PM
Talk about shutting the door after the horse has bolted with this inquiry call :D :D

Arlene comes across as one of those incompetent managers who is always fire fighting, never proactive, always appearing busy to do anything for you, snappy if you ask them anything and like the incredible hulk if you point the finger.
She gave her main interview this week to the Impartial Reporter.
Very provincial.  She refused an inquiry and only yielded when it was too late. Very shortsighted.
And she had to apologise to La Mon.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whWJ-iBVi5M
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: podge on January 11, 2017, 10:00:07 PM
Talk about shutting the door after the horse has bolted with this inquiry call :D :D

Arlene comes across as one of those incompetent managers who is always fire fighting, never proactive, always appearing busy to do anything for you, snappy if you ask them anything and like the incredible hulk if you point the finger.

Clearly it's too late to avoid the collapse of the assembly but now that Arlene is gone, I really do not understand why SF would not now let an independent and public investigation into the RHI go ahead.  Surely there could have been a reasonable investigation that was not being dictated by the DUP. What have they got to lose?  Arlene is trying to take the moral high ground and by not letting it go ahead SF are leaving themselves open to accusation of wasting money in the meantime and having something to hide themselves.  Arlene will throw it up at every opportunity now. 

And another thing, why are SF so intransigent about going to an election without even any effort of talks in advance?  its not as if the main players in talks post an election are likely to change dramatically as a result of such an election.  Are they just themselves a bit of time ?

I don't think either SF or DUP have come out of the last few weeks with any great credit.  If the SDLP and UUP cannot make some hay out of all of this, they will never come back.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 11, 2017, 11:25:05 PM
There is too much going on within SF and this has allowed Adams to come back to the fore unmoderated by McGuinness. Nothing in their actions suggests a coherent approach to the situation in the Executive.

SF would not join a vote of no confidence against Foster that would have gone down well with electorate but now are willing to pull down the government.

SF produced a draft programme for government along with DUP and sent it out for consultation.  It contained to reference to the Irish Language Act but now this is an issue for them.

They could exact a lot from DUP via immediate talks as neither SF or DUP wants an election but the issue is being pushed by SF forces beyond its MLAs.

M O'Neill has now been pushed to the forefront as the spokesperson and lead negotiator. 

Interesting article and comment from Ed Maloney

Both would take precedent over Arlene and her tricks, methought….”
Mick Fealty on 11 January 2017

Okay, so for the awkwardness around this whole election thingee, I’m going to leave it up to Ed Moloney to say what needs to be said about the real reasons for the departure of Martin McGuinness.

When I watched McGuinness on the BBC’s website yesterday afternoon my overwhelming thought was that this man isn’t quitting because he is fed up with Arlene Foster, the DUP and their little scheme to enrich their farmer friends (at least those with large empty sheds to heat), although I am sure he is.

No, my thought was that this man wants to go home to be with his family for his last days in this world. McGuinness is a devout Catholic, the sort who daily wears a scapular – so I am assured – and so he would also want to make peace with his God, something that promises to be an interesting exercise. Both would take precedent over Arlene and her tricks, methought.

Call me cynical but I have had more than two decades of dealings with Martin McGuinness’ comrades and so my second thought, based on that toilsome experience, was that what we were seeing was another Provo bunco game designed to make us believe the unbelievable.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 11, 2017, 11:30:40 PM
Well worth a read:

http://eamonnmallie.com/2017/01/grace-by-eamonn-mallie/[/b]]http://eamonnmallie.com/2017/01/grace-by-eamonn-mallie/ (http://[b)
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Syferus on January 12, 2017, 09:03:31 AM
What has the north come to that they're lionising McGuiness. The sooner the reigns of power is wrested away from his generation on both sides of the divide the better for everyone.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: No wides on January 12, 2017, 09:06:46 AM
What has the north come to that they're lionising McGuiness. The sooner the reigns of power is wrested away from his generation on both sides of the divide the better for everyone.

And given to Paul Givan for example?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: bogball88 on January 12, 2017, 09:29:20 AM
Givan has reinstated the Liofa bursaries, saying he has now found the money!
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Keyser soze on January 12, 2017, 09:49:23 AM
What has the north come to that they're lionising McGuiness. The sooner the reigns of power is wrested away from his generation on both sides of the divide the better for everyone.

If you don't possess the basic levels of vocabulary and grammar required to form a simple sentence correctly don't expect that your opinion on complex matters will be given much weight.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on January 12, 2017, 10:10:40 AM
Givan has reinstated the Liofa bursaries, saying he has now found the money!

DUP are in panic mode.  I wouldn't be surprised if they throw Foster under the bus before an election.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: seafoid on January 12, 2017, 10:11:01 AM
Givan has reinstated the Liofa bursaries, saying he has now found the money!
Lots of plámásing all of a sudden. I don't think HMG wants an election
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Applesisapples on January 12, 2017, 10:13:44 AM
I don't think they are panicking, nor will they ditch Arlene unless something comes out of the wood work. They are still a party split into at least two factions Paisley/Dodds. I think Ian go is biding his time to seek revenge. As for McGuinness without him and Adams we would not be where we are today.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 12, 2017, 10:16:39 AM
DUP knows that an election brings and end to its immediate access to the emergency brake of the petition of concern to prevent criticism by others or motions it does not want.  It will be returned with less than 30 seats and it will still require 30 signatures for a petition of concern that it can easily muster with its 34 seats.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Applesisapples on January 12, 2017, 10:18:04 AM
DUP knows that an election brings and end to its immediate access to the emergency brake of the petition of concern to prevent criticism by others or motions it does not want.  It will be returned with less than 30 seats and it will still require 30 signatures for a petition of concern that it can easily muster with its 34 seats.
Don't worry when it matters Mike will tow the line.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 12, 2017, 10:19:17 AM
Minister Given is a member of the Paisley faction and it is a blow to him and them to have to come crawling back with his lame excuse for restoring funding.  Jim Allister is mocking them big time and he now has an example of DUP rollover to SF as he sees it.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: sensethetone on January 12, 2017, 10:23:03 AM
DUP knows that an election brings and end to its immediate access to the emergency brake of the petition of concern to prevent criticism by others or motions it does not want.  It will be returned with less than 30 seats and it will still require 30 signatures for a petition of concern that it can easily muster with its 34 seats.
Don't worry when it matters Mike will tow the line.
Mike will tow the line, that's why Tom Elliot in an MP.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Keyser soze on January 12, 2017, 10:31:50 AM
DUP knows that an election brings and end to its immediate access to the emergency brake of the petition of concern to prevent criticism by others or motions it does not want.  It will be returned with less than 30 seats and it will still require 30 signatures for a petition of concern that it can easily muster with its 34 seats.
Don't worry when it matters Mike will tow the line.
Mike will tow the line, that's why Tom Elliot in an MP.

Be more interesting to see if he toes the line though.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 12, 2017, 10:32:05 AM
Scandal - looks like RHI profits being funnelled to the Republic.

http://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2017/01/12/news/fire-at-fermanagh-shed-which-destroyed-eight-boilers-was-accidental-881138/ (http://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2017/01/12/news/fire-at-fermanagh-shed-which-destroyed-eight-boilers-was-accidental-881138/)
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 12, 2017, 10:33:20 AM
DUP knows that an election brings and end to its immediate access to the emergency brake of the petition of concern to prevent criticism by others or motions it does not want.  It will be returned with less than 30 seats and it will still require 30 signatures for a petition of concern that it can easily muster with its 34 seats.
Don't worry when it matters Mike will tow the line.
Mike will tow the line, that's why Tom Elliot in an MP.

Be more interesting to see if he toes the line though.

You a really on form in this thread.   :)
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: stiffler on January 12, 2017, 10:34:36 AM
So givan miraculously finds 50k in the budget.

If the original decision was not political , I would love to know their reasoning !
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Keyser soze on January 12, 2017, 10:37:48 AM
DUP knows that an election brings and end to its immediate access to the emergency brake of the petition of concern to prevent criticism by others or motions it does not want.  It will be returned with less than 30 seats and it will still require 30 signatures for a petition of concern that it can easily muster with its 34 seats.
Don't worry when it matters Mike will tow the line.
Mike will tow the line, that's why Tom Elliot in an MP.

Be more interesting to see if he toes the line though.

You a really on form in this thread.   :)

Are u trying to really get me going???   ;)
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: sensethetone on January 12, 2017, 10:39:06 AM
So givan miraculously finds 50k in the budget.

If the original decision was not political , I would love to know their reasoning !

If he keeps up the good work he could sort the bedroom tax on his own.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Applesisapples on January 12, 2017, 10:42:19 AM
DUP knows that an election brings and end to its immediate access to the emergency brake of the petition of concern to prevent criticism by others or motions it does not want.  It will be returned with less than 30 seats and it will still require 30 signatures for a petition of concern that it can easily muster with its 34 seats.
Don't worry when it matters Mike will tow the line.
Mike will tow the line, that's why Tom Elliot in an MP.

Be more interesting to see if he toes the line though.
No he deftly tow it
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on January 12, 2017, 10:44:59 AM
So givan miraculously finds 50k in the budget.

If the original decision was not political , I would love to know their reasoning !

If he keeps up the good work he could sort the bedroom tax on his own.

At this rate in a couple of weeks he and Hamilton will have found enough money to fund a United Ireland!
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Keyser soze on January 12, 2017, 10:48:21 AM
DUP knows that an election brings and end to its immediate access to the emergency brake of the petition of concern to prevent criticism by others or motions it does not want.  It will be returned with less than 30 seats and it will still require 30 signatures for a petition of concern that it can easily muster with its 34 seats.
Don't worry when it matters Mike will tow the line.
Mike will tow the line, that's why Tom Elliot in an MP.

Be more interesting to see if he toes the line though.
No he deftly tow it

Heh?? Have u compounded your original stupidity with another error?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: FermGael on January 12, 2017, 10:51:17 AM
The DUP do not want an election.
They have very good machinery for an election.
There initial polls have been poor reading. They have badly miss judged the electorate.

The currently have a veto within government. They will not want to endanger that.
Hence the move by Girvan.
It's too little too late as SF will probably be encouraged to go to an election after a climb down like that.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on January 12, 2017, 10:52:26 AM
So givan miraculously finds 50k in the budget.

If the original decision was not political , I would love to know their reasoning !

Stolen from Twitter:

They must have had a heterosexual cake sale.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: seafoid on January 12, 2017, 11:23:05 AM
Why don't the nationalists throw up a few GAA wallahs to get the vote out  if there is an election ?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Rossfan on January 12, 2017, 11:28:41 AM
I would hope more of the Nationalist electorate would come out to try and ensure they don't get saddled with another DUP Administration.
The last 6 months of DUP rule should have shaken them out of their apathy.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 12, 2017, 11:58:35 AM
DUP knows that an election brings and end to its immediate access to the emergency brake of the petition of concern to prevent criticism by others or motions it does not want.  It will be returned with less than 30 seats and it will still require 30 signatures for a petition of concern that it can easily muster with its 34 seats.
Don't worry when it matters Mike will tow the line.
Mike will tow the line, that's why Tom Elliot in an MP.

Be more interesting to see if he toes the line though.
No he deftly tow it

Heh?? Have u compounded your original stupidity with another error?

FYI:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toe_the_line (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toe_the_line)

toe the line

accept the authority, policies, or principles of a particular group, especially unwillingly.
"he knew that he had to toe the official line because he couldn't afford to be put on the dole"

synonyms:conform, obey the rules, comply with the rules, observe the rules, abide by the rules, adhere to the rules, act in accordance with the rules, follow the rules, keep to the rules, stick to the rules;


The Oxford Dictionary of Word Histories (Oxford: Oxford Univ. Press, 2002; ed. by Glynnis Chantrell) says, "The idiom toe the line from an athletics analogy originated in the early 19th century" (514).  The specific sport referred to is foot-racing, where the competitors must keep their feet behind a "line" or on a "mark" at the start of the race--as in "On your mark, get set, go!" 
So one who "toes the line" is one who does not allow his foot to stray over the line.   In other words, one who does not stray beyond a rigidly defined boundary.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 12, 2017, 12:03:14 PM
I would hope more of the Nationalist electorate would come out to try and ensure they don't get saddled with another DUP Administration.
The last 6 months of DUP rule should have shaken them out of their apathy.

Nobody does apathy better than the Nationalist electorate in N.Ireland and what has happened is no big shakes to most.  'What else do you expect from the DUP' will be the general opinion. Life is hard enough up North without getting over wrought about another election.

Besides, even Jamie Bryson has got SF sorted on their latest tactic of throwing the toys out of the pram to get another round of talks and concessions that couldn't be achieved through the democratic institutions.

http://sluggerotoole.com/2017/01/11/even-the-dups-harshest-critics-within-unionism-wont-be-having-that/ (http://sluggerotoole.com/2017/01/11/even-the-dups-harshest-critics-within-unionism-wont-be-having-that/)
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: No wides on January 12, 2017, 01:20:15 PM
I would hope more of the Nationalist electorate would come out to try and ensure they don't get saddled with another DUP Administration.
The last 6 months of DUP rule should have shaken them out of their apathy.

And whom would you like them to vote for?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Avondhu star on January 12, 2017, 01:54:47 PM
I would hope more of the Nationalist electorate would come out to try and ensure they don't get saddled with another DUP Administration.
The last 6 months of DUP rule should have shaken them out of their apathy.
Sinn Fein and the DUP are the political extremes and receive thousands of votes above anyone in the middle. If they are both so obstinate that they can't work together then its back to direct rule from London
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Applesisapples on January 12, 2017, 01:56:10 PM
I would hope more of the Nationalist electorate would come out to try and ensure they don't get saddled with another DUP Administration.
The last 6 months of DUP rule should have shaken them out of their apathy.
Sinn Fein and the DUP are the political extremes and receive thousands of votes above anyone in the middle. If they are both so obstinate that they can't work together then its back to direct rule from London
SF are no longer extreme.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Rossfan on January 12, 2017, 02:50:01 PM
I would hope more of the Nationalist electorate would come out to try and ensure they don't get saddled with another DUP Administration.
The last 6 months of DUP rule should have shaken them out of their apathy.

And whom would you like them to vote for?
Who would you think?
SF or SDLP or any other party who want to see an all Ireland entity ( at some stage).
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: No wides on January 12, 2017, 03:27:55 PM
I would hope more of the Nationalist electorate would come out to try and ensure they don't get saddled with another DUP Administration.
The last 6 months of DUP rule should have shaken them out of their apathy.

And whom would you like them to vote for?
Who would you think?
SF or SDLP or any other party who want to see an all Ireland entity ( at some stage).

Not someone who might help out with social issues in the occupied six?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: No wides on January 12, 2017, 03:28:32 PM
I take it you just vote SF for the united Ireland?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: seafoid on January 12, 2017, 03:33:27 PM
They should get Alex Ferguson in for a Manchester United Ireland
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: armaghniac on January 12, 2017, 03:34:04 PM
I would hope more of the Nationalist electorate would come out to try and ensure they don't get saddled with another DUP Administration.
The last 6 months of DUP rule should have shaken them out of their apathy.

And whom would you like them to vote for?

People should vote for parties who favour the Good Friday Agreement, which in this case means makes the assembly work and opposing Brexit over the heads of the people of Ireland. This would exclude the likes of the TUV, DUP and PBP.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: BennyCake on January 12, 2017, 04:13:10 PM
They should get Alex Ferguson in for a Manchester United Ireland

That'll be yet another book for Fergie.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Shamrock Shore on January 12, 2017, 04:54:50 PM
Up to date satellite map of Norn Iron

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 12, 2017, 05:09:37 PM
Would there be any benefit in nationalist voters giving transfers to UUP and PUP candidates? Mike "Postman Pat" Nesbitt would likely be easier to work with than Foster or any other cretin the DUP's likely to put in charge, so it'd do no harm to give them a bit of a boost. And the PUP has always struck me as pretty progressive and forward-looking, once you look past the paramilitary links. They strike me as a brake pedal on the loyalists in the same was as SF were for the Provos.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on January 12, 2017, 05:26:50 PM
Would there be any benefit in nationalist voters giving transfers to UUP and PUP candidates? Mike "Postman Pat" Nesbitt would likely be easier to work with than Foster or any other cretin the DUP's likely to put in charge, so it'd do no harm to give them a bit of a boost. And the PUP has always struck me as pretty progressive and forward-looking, once you look past the paramilitary links. They strike me as a brake pedal on the loyalists in the same was as SF were for the Provos.

There might be benefit in Nationalists transferring to other Nationalists!! 
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: armaghniac on January 12, 2017, 05:31:00 PM
Would there be any benefit in nationalist voters giving transfers to UUP and PUP candidates? Mike "Postman Pat" Nesbitt would likely be easier to work with than Foster or any other cretin the DUP's likely to put in charge, so it'd do no harm to give them a bit of a boost. And the PUP has always struck me as pretty progressive and forward-looking, once you look past the paramilitary links. They strike me as a brake pedal on the loyalists in the same was as SF were for the Provos.

There might be benefit in Nationalists transferring to other Nationalists!!

In PR people should use their transfers, anyone who stops after 2 or 3 is part of the problem.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Minder on January 12, 2017, 05:32:23 PM
Would there be any benefit in nationalist voters giving transfers to UUP and PUP candidates? Mike "Postman Pat" Nesbitt would likely be easier to work with than Foster or any other cretin the DUP's likely to put in charge, so it'd do no harm to give them a bit of a boost. And the PUP has always struck me as pretty progressive and forward-looking, once you look past the paramilitary links. They strike me as a brake pedal on the loyalists in the same was as SF were for the Provos.

There might be benefit in Nationalists transferring to other Nationalists!!

In PR people should use their transfers, anyone who stops after 2 or 3 is part of the problem.

SF would rather a unionist got in than SDLP
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: No wides on January 12, 2017, 05:54:19 PM
Would there be any benefit in nationalist voters giving transfers to UUP and PUP candidates? Mike "Postman Pat" Nesbitt would likely be easier to work with than Foster or any other cretin the DUP's likely to put in charge, so it'd do no harm to give them a bit of a boost. And the PUP has always struck me as pretty progressive and forward-looking, once you look past the paramilitary links. They strike me as a brake pedal on the loyalists in the same was as SF were for the Provos.

Why does an adopted yank care you worry about Trump there's a good lad.  For someone who abandoned Ireland you have a wild interest in it.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Rossfan on January 12, 2017, 06:17:47 PM
Sounds like it's going to be an election going by this evening's News.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 12, 2017, 06:42:40 PM
Finance department refuses to disclose 'issues' flagged up by Moy Park RHI meeting

JOHN MANLEY
12 January, 2017

THE Department of Finance (DoF) has declined to reveal what concerns poultry processor Moy Park raised with its officials during a meeting this week.

On Tuesday Sinn Féin issued a statement in which finance minister Máirtín Ó Muilleoir referred to a briefing by Moy Park representatives that had "raised further issues" about the Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI).

Poultry farmers supplying the Brazilian-owned food giant are understood to make up a significant number of the non-domestic RHI's 1,905 claimants.

The Irish News has previously revealed that 54 per cent of the scheme's claimants are farmers and that they have received two-thirds of the £55m paid out so far.

Official documents show civil servants warned former enterprise minister Jonathan Bell in July 2015 that a surge in demand for poultry shed heating systems was rapidly driving up the cost of Stormont's botched green energy scheme.

Following the meeting with DoF officials on Tuesday, a Moy Park statement said its representatives were able "to offer insight and suggestions" based on the company's experience of energy use in poultry farming.

"Many of our contracted family-owned farms are participants within the Northern Ireland RHI scheme and as advocates of the responsible use of heat, we felt our experience could be relevant and useful in the development of a solution to secure the RHI scheme within budget," the statement said.

"We hope our contribution was of value."

A DoF spokesman said Moy Park provided an overview of the poultry sector and the role of RHI in providing a "sustainable heating source" for the sector.

"Moy Park provided some helpful insight into how the poultry industry operates and made constructive suggestions as to the future operation of the RHI scheme here," the spokesman said.

"Moy Park also endorsed the need for robust auditing of the scheme and made some helpful suggestions as to the technical expertise that could be usefully employed in this area."

The spokesman said DoF officials had written to the Department of Economy to "highlight three key concerns and issues raised by Moy Park".


http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:nph5l_rT4ZUJ:www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2017/01/12/news/finance-department-refuses-to-disclose-issues-flagged-up-by-moy-park-rhi-meeting-881297/+&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: andoireabu on January 12, 2017, 07:16:53 PM
Would there be any benefit in nationalist voters giving transfers to UUP and PUP candidates? Mike "Postman Pat" Nesbitt would likely be easier to work with than Foster or any other cretin the DUP's likely to put in charge, so it'd do no harm to give them a bit of a boost. And the PUP has always struck me as pretty progressive and forward-looking, once you look past the paramilitary links. They strike me as a brake pedal on the loyalists in the same was as SF were for the Provos.

There might be benefit in Nationalists transferring to other Nationalists!!

In PR people should use their transfers, anyone who stops after 2 or 3 is part of the problem.
In what way? Say there are 6 candidates on the paper, three nationalist and 3 unionist. As a nationalist voter is it better to put 1, 2, 3 against said candidates or should you put the 4, 5 and 6 on as well from least worst to worst unionist?  Is there any benefit to transferring to unionists if that isnt your mindset?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on January 12, 2017, 07:24:53 PM
Would there be any benefit in nationalist voters giving transfers to UUP and PUP candidates? Mike "Postman Pat" Nesbitt would likely be easier to work with than Foster or any other cretin the DUP's likely to put in charge, so it'd do no harm to give them a bit of a boost. And the PUP has always struck me as pretty progressive and forward-looking, once you look past the paramilitary links. They strike me as a brake pedal on the loyalists in the same was as SF were for the Provos.

There might be benefit in Nationalists transferring to other Nationalists!!

In PR people should use their transfers, anyone who stops after 2 or 3 is part of the problem.
In what way? Say there are 6 candidates on the paper, three nationalist and 3 unionist. As a nationalist voter is it better to put 1, 2, 3 against said candidates or should you put the 4, 5 and 6 on as well from least worst to worst unionist?  Is there any benefit to transferring to unionists if that isnt your mindset?

You should put 4, 5 and 6 on as well because it might mean you get a sensible Unionist elected like Doug Beatie instead of a loon like McCrea or Poots or any other DUP bigot for that matter
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Rossfan on January 12, 2017, 07:59:10 PM
Correct JPG.
At least give  4 to the least worst and blank the other 2.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: seafoid on January 12, 2017, 08:16:41 PM
Finance department refuses to disclose 'issues' flagged up by Moy Park RHI meeting

JOHN MANLEY
12 January, 2017

THE Department of Finance (DoF) has declined to reveal what concerns poultry processor Moy Park raised with its officials during a meeting this week.

On Tuesday Sinn Féin issued a statement in which finance minister Máirtín Ó Muilleoir referred to a briefing by Moy Park representatives that had "raised further issues" about the Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI).

Poultry farmers supplying the Brazilian-owned food giant are understood to make up a significant number of the non-domestic RHI's 1,905 claimants.

The Irish News has previously revealed that 54 per cent of the scheme's claimants are farmers and that they have received two-thirds of the £55m paid out so far.

Official documents show civil servants warned former enterprise minister Jonathan Bell in July 2015 that a surge in demand for poultry shed heating systems was rapidly driving up the cost of Stormont's botched green energy scheme.

Following the meeting with DoF officials on Tuesday, a Moy Park statement said its representatives were able "to offer insight and suggestions" based on the company's experience of energy use in poultry farming.

"Many of our contracted family-owned farms are participants within the Northern Ireland RHI scheme and as advocates of the responsible use of heat, we felt our experience could be relevant and useful in the development of a solution to secure the RHI scheme within budget," the statement said.

"We hope our contribution was of value."

A DoF spokesman said Moy Park provided an overview of the poultry sector and the role of RHI in providing a "sustainable heating source" for the sector.

"Moy Park provided some helpful insight into how the poultry industry operates and made constructive suggestions as to the future operation of the RHI scheme here," the spokesman said.

"Moy Park also endorsed the need for robust auditing of the scheme and made some helpful suggestions as to the technical expertise that could be usefully employed in this area."

The spokesman said DoF officials had written to the Department of Economy to "highlight three key concerns and issues raised by Moy Park".


http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:nph5l_rT4ZUJ:www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2017/01/12/news/finance-department-refuses-to-disclose-issues-flagged-up-by-moy-park-rhi-meeting-881297/+&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk
It's a game of chicken

why did the chicken cross the road? Because he had the right to wear the sash his father wore
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: armaghniac on January 12, 2017, 08:32:10 PM
Correct JPG.
At least give  4 to the least worst and blank the other 2.

Quite. There are degrees of revulsion, even the DUP may be preferable to the TUV, and perhaps even the TUV is preferable to UKIP.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: OgraAnDun on January 12, 2017, 08:42:34 PM
Correct JPG.
At least give  4 to the least worst and blank the other 2.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/why-it-pays-to-vote-all-the-way-down-the-ballot-paper-1.2548241
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on January 12, 2017, 08:53:53 PM
In south belfast last time there was 18 candidates and i numbered them all. Cant remember the exact order but it was basically SDLP, Greens, SF high up various socialists, alliance in the middle and then UUP, independent unionists, UKIP, PUP, DUP, TUV. There is a scale that may be tinkered with depneding on candidates and local issues but doesnt change too much lol. On top of turnout Unionist do well in Assembly elections because their voters have a better understanding of transfers. So many unionist parties shoukd shred the vote but the voters are so disciplined compared to idiot nationalists who as noted earlier would almost rather have DUP than SF/SDLP get in
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: armaghniac on January 12, 2017, 09:49:35 PM
In south belfast last time there was 18 candidates and i numbered them all. Cant remember the exact order but it was basically SDLP, Greens, SF high up various socialists, alliance in the middle and then UUP, independent unionists, UKIP, PUP, DUP, TUV. There is a scale that may be tinkered with depneding on candidates and local issues but doesnt change too much lol. On top of turnout Unionist do well in Assembly elections because their voters have a better understanding of transfers. So many unionist parties shoukd shred the vote but the voters are so disciplined compared to idiot nationalists who as noted earlier would almost rather have DUP than SF/SDLP get in

There seems a strange refusal to appreciate the workings of STV PR by many northern nationalists. In the 26 counties, people are perfectly capable of using their transfers to advantage or disadvantage more useless members of parties, local candidates, worthy independents, people opposed to abortion or whatever. Use PR , that is what it is for.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 12, 2017, 09:53:51 PM
Would there be any benefit in nationalist voters giving transfers to UUP and PUP candidates? Mike "Postman Pat" Nesbitt would likely be easier to work with than Foster or any other cretin the DUP's likely to put in charge, so it'd do no harm to give them a bit of a boost. And the PUP has always struck me as pretty progressive and forward-looking, once you look past the paramilitary links. They strike me as a brake pedal on the loyalists in the same was as SF were for the Provos.

There might be benefit in Nationalists transferring to other Nationalists!!

Goes without saying, that.

Say you're a moderate nationalist, you might vote as follows:
1 SDLP
2 SF
3 UUP
4 PUP

If you're a shinner then you might vote as follows:
1 SF
2 SDLP
3 UUP
4 PUP
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: An Watcher on January 12, 2017, 11:01:38 PM
Jesus but I can't stand yer man Paul Givan.  Don't think there's a more arrogant, smug, ...... out there 
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: No wides on January 13, 2017, 07:56:20 AM
He's the future for those in the know  ::)

What has the north come to that they're lionising McGuiness. The sooner the reigns of power is wrested away from his generation on both sides of the divide the better for everyone.

And given to Paul Givan for example?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Avondhu star on January 13, 2017, 08:11:04 AM
Finance department refuses to disclose 'issues' flagged up by Moy Park RHI meeting

JOHN MANLEY
12 January, 2017

THE Department of Finance (DoF) has declined to reveal what concerns poultry processor Moy Park raised with its officials during a meeting this week.

On Tuesday Sinn Féin issued a statement in which finance minister Máirtín Ó Muilleoir referred to a briefing by Moy Park representatives that had "raised further issues" about the Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI).

Poultry farmers supplying the Brazilian-owned food giant are understood to make up a significant number of the non-domestic RHI's 1,905 claimants.

The Irish News has previously revealed that 54 per cent of the scheme's claimants are farmers and that they have received two-thirds of the £55m paid out so far.

Official documents show civil servants warned former enterprise minister Jonathan Bell in July 2015 that a surge in demand for poultry shed heating systems was rapidly driving up the cost of Stormont's botched green energy scheme.

Following the meeting with DoF officials on Tuesday, a Moy Park statement said its representatives were able "to offer insight and suggestions" based on the company's experience of energy use in poultry farming.

"Many of our contracted family-owned farms are participants within the Northern Ireland RHI scheme and as advocates of the responsible use of heat, we felt our experience could be relevant and useful in the development of a solution to secure the RHI scheme within budget," the statement said.

"We hope our contribution was of value."

A DoF spokesman said Moy Park provided an overview of the poultry sector and the role of RHI in providing a "sustainable heating source" for the sector.

"Moy Park provided some helpful insight into how the poultry industry operates and made constructive suggestions as to the future operation of the RHI scheme here," the spokesman said.

"Moy Park also endorsed the need for robust auditing of the scheme and made some helpful suggestions as to the technical expertise that could be usefully employed in this area."

The spokesman said DoF officials had written to the Department of Economy to "highlight three key concerns and issues raised by Moy Park".


http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:nph5l_rT4ZUJ:www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2017/01/12/news/finance-department-refuses-to-disclose-issues-flagged-up-by-moy-park-rhi-meeting-881297/+&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk
It's a game of chicken

why did the chicken cross the road? Because he had the right to wear the sash his father wore
I want to live in a world where chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Minder on January 13, 2017, 08:59:27 AM
He's the future for those in the know  ::)

What has the north come to that they're lionising McGuiness. The sooner the reigns of power is wrested away from his generation on both sides of the divide the better for everyone.

And given to Paul Givan for example?

Answering your own posts or did you forget to log out ?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: doodaa on January 13, 2017, 09:19:16 AM
Finance department refuses to disclose 'issues' flagged up by Moy Park RHI meeting

JOHN MANLEY
12 January, 2017

THE Department of Finance (DoF) has declined to reveal what concerns poultry processor Moy Park raised with its officials during a meeting this week.

On Tuesday Sinn Féin issued a statement in which finance minister Máirtín Ó Muilleoir referred to a briefing by Moy Park representatives that had "raised further issues" about the Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI).

Poultry farmers supplying the Brazilian-owned food giant are understood to make up a significant number of the non-domestic RHI's 1,905 claimants.

The Irish News has previously revealed that 54 per cent of the scheme's claimants are farmers and that they have received two-thirds of the £55m paid out so far.

Official documents show civil servants warned former enterprise minister Jonathan Bell in July 2015 that a surge in demand for poultry shed heating systems was rapidly driving up the cost of Stormont's botched green energy scheme.

Following the meeting with DoF officials on Tuesday, a Moy Park statement said its representatives were able "to offer insight and suggestions" based on the company's experience of energy use in poultry farming.

"Many of our contracted family-owned farms are participants within the Northern Ireland RHI scheme and as advocates of the responsible use of heat, we felt our experience could be relevant and useful in the development of a solution to secure the RHI scheme within budget," the statement said.

"We hope our contribution was of value."

A DoF spokesman said Moy Park provided an overview of the poultry sector and the role of RHI in providing a "sustainable heating source" for the sector.

"Moy Park provided some helpful insight into how the poultry industry operates and made constructive suggestions as to the future operation of the RHI scheme here," the spokesman said.

"Moy Park also endorsed the need for robust auditing of the scheme and made some helpful suggestions as to the technical expertise that could be usefully employed in this area."

The spokesman said DoF officials had written to the Department of Economy to "highlight three key concerns and issues raised by Moy Park".


http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:nph5l_rT4ZUJ:www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2017/01/12/news/finance-department-refuses-to-disclose-issues-flagged-up-by-moy-park-rhi-meeting-881297/+&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

I would say it was a case of "If you pull the plug on this we will have you through the courts and/or pull out of the north leaving a trail of broke farmers in our wake!"
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 13, 2017, 10:06:40 AM
Finance department refuses to disclose 'issues' flagged up by Moy Park RHI meeting

JOHN MANLEY
12 January, 2017

THE Department of Finance (DoF) has declined to reveal what concerns poultry processor Moy Park raised with its officials during a meeting this week.

On Tuesday Sinn Féin issued a statement in which finance minister Máirtín Ó Muilleoir referred to a briefing by Moy Park representatives that had "raised further issues" about the Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI).

Poultry farmers supplying the Brazilian-owned food giant are understood to make up a significant number of the non-domestic RHI's 1,905 claimants.

The Irish News has previously revealed that 54 per cent of the scheme's claimants are farmers and that they have received two-thirds of the £55m paid out so far.

Official documents show civil servants warned former enterprise minister Jonathan Bell in July 2015 that a surge in demand for poultry shed heating systems was rapidly driving up the cost of Stormont's botched green energy scheme.

Following the meeting with DoF officials on Tuesday, a Moy Park statement said its representatives were able "to offer insight and suggestions" based on the company's experience of energy use in poultry farming.

"Many of our contracted family-owned farms are participants within the Northern Ireland RHI scheme and as advocates of the responsible use of heat, we felt our experience could be relevant and useful in the development of a solution to secure the RHI scheme within budget," the statement said.

"We hope our contribution was of value."

A DoF spokesman said Moy Park provided an overview of the poultry sector and the role of RHI in providing a "sustainable heating source" for the sector.

"Moy Park provided some helpful insight into how the poultry industry operates and made constructive suggestions as to the future operation of the RHI scheme here," the spokesman said.

"Moy Park also endorsed the need for robust auditing of the scheme and made some helpful suggestions as to the technical expertise that could be usefully employed in this area."

The spokesman said DoF officials had written to the Department of Economy to "highlight three key concerns and issues raised by Moy Park".


http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:nph5l_rT4ZUJ:www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2017/01/12/news/finance-department-refuses-to-disclose-issues-flagged-up-by-moy-park-rhi-meeting-881297/+&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

I would say it was a case of "If you pull the plug on this we will have you through the courts and/or pull out of the north leaving a trail of broke farmers in our wake!"

Exactly. The old saying from a few years ago "Too big to fail" could apply here.......

From what I know to date, Moy Park were very active in getting their growers onto this scheme, both new and existing ones.

These growers come from right across the political spectrum, and if or when the list is produced, we will see that there are as many
from Nationalist backgrounds as there are from Unionist.

Hundreds of growers have borrowed over £100 million by my calculations, and needless to say, the vast chunk of that borrowing
was on the strength of the RHI payments coming in every quarter.

Some of these loans are also backed by Stormont, so we the people could be liable if RHI payments are stopped or vastly reduced.

Moy Park have already stated that they are prepared to go across the border in the event of a hard Brexit, so they are potentially
holding Stormont to ransom. Their International HQ are in Dublin for tax reasons, so moving across the border will be an easy enough move.

Moy Park are the major player in this RHI fiasco, and whatever deal is worked out, it will have to keep them and their growers happy.

Anything less will bring a domino effect that could see the (Broiler) house of cards come tumbling down. 

We are now seeing the start of a process to keep them happy, and I would expect to see further revelations about Moy Park
and their role in this RHI fiasco be revealed in the coming days and weeks.


to ransom
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 13, 2017, 10:18:16 AM
Would there be any benefit in nationalist voters giving transfers to UUP and PUP candidates? Mike "Postman Pat" Nesbitt would likely be easier to work with than Foster or any other cretin the DUP's likely to put in charge, so it'd do no harm to give them a bit of a boost. And the PUP has always struck me as pretty progressive and forward-looking, once you look past the paramilitary links. They strike me as a brake pedal on the loyalists in the same was as SF were for the Provos.

There might be benefit in Nationalists transferring to other Nationalists!!

Goes without saying, that.

Say you're a moderate nationalist, you might vote as follows:
1 SDLP
2 SF
3 UUP
4 PUP

If you're a shinner then you might vote as follows:
1 SF
2 SDLP
3 UUP
4 PUP

Really?  Do you live in the real world?  Very few SF voters will transfer to SDLP, its the party line or nothing. PUP stand in their areas where extremely few Catholics live and they can't even 'persuade' the working class loyalist to vote for them in even reasonable numbers or have their taxi forms drive them to the polls.

Just looks at the declining interest of the nationalist voters over the last few elections to see what is happening.  In the last election both SF and SDLP had an overall fall of 2% in turnout for them.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Rossfan on January 13, 2017, 11:20:50 AM
Time SF voters started to learn how to use the PR system.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: No wides on January 13, 2017, 11:32:10 AM
He's the future for those in the know  ::)

What has the north come to that they're lionising McGuiness. The sooner the reigns of power is wrested away from his generation on both sides of the divide the better for everyone.

And given to Paul Givan for example?

Answering your own posts or did you forget to log out ?

Have you difficulty following a thread if it goes onto another page?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Owenmoresider on January 13, 2017, 11:34:22 AM
Would there be any benefit in nationalist voters giving transfers to UUP and PUP candidates? Mike "Postman Pat" Nesbitt would likely be easier to work with than Foster or any other cretin the DUP's likely to put in charge, so it'd do no harm to give them a bit of a boost. And the PUP has always struck me as pretty progressive and forward-looking, once you look past the paramilitary links. They strike me as a brake pedal on the loyalists in the same was as SF were for the Provos.

There might be benefit in Nationalists transferring to other Nationalists!!

Goes without saying, that.

Say you're a moderate nationalist, you might vote as follows:
1 SDLP
2 SF
3 UUP
4 PUP

If you're a shinner then you might vote as follows:
1 SF
2 SDLP
3 UUP
4 PUP

Really?  Do you live in the real world?  Very few SF voters will transfer to SDLP, its the party line or nothing. PUP stand in their areas where extremely few Catholics live and they can't even 'persuade' the working class loyalist to vote for them in even reasonable numbers or have their taxi forms drive them to the polls.

Just looks at the declining interest of the nationalist voters over the last few elections to see what is happening.  In the last election both SF and SDLP had an overall fall of 2% in turnout for them.
I think many parties here would have had those plumper voters over the years but the SF voters still seem to maintain their "ourselves alone" mentality. Sure many of them would barely acknowledge that the SDLP are a nationalist party anyway.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: The Trap on January 13, 2017, 11:39:10 AM
If you had your choice of every politician from every party who would you put in charge of what and do you think they could do a good job?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: sensethetone on January 13, 2017, 12:06:26 PM
Claire Hanna needs a Minster job rather than pointing what should have happened.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: ashman on January 13, 2017, 12:35:03 PM
This could run yet .  There are huge issues here potentially .  Is there an issue with state aid ???
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 13, 2017, 12:48:07 PM
‘No comment’ after fire destroys eight boilers

AN investigation has taken place after eight boilers and 14 tonnes of woodchip were destroyed in a fire at a shed in Enniskillen.

The fire outside Magheradunbar, which was accidental, occurred just before three o’clock last Friday morning.

Firefighters from Enniskillen, Irvinestown and Lisnaskea spent around five hours at the scene.

A further appliance from Enniskillen Fire Station attended the incident to relieve the crews and to damp down remaining hotspots.

The Impartial Reporter understands a businessman from the Republic of Ireland operates the facility.

When contacted by this newspaper he refused to deny that he was the owner and would not answer any of our questions, including his thoughts on the blaze that damaged the shed and its contents.

“I am not prepared to comment,” he said, five times.

http://www.impartialreporter.com/news/15020107.___No_comment____after_fire_destroys_eight_boilers/?ref=twtrec
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Dire Ear on January 13, 2017, 03:00:26 PM
Moy Park will be telling Stormont the way this is going to roll, and not the other way about
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: armaghniac on January 13, 2017, 03:08:12 PM
I think many parties here would have had those plumper voters over the years but the SF voters still seem to maintain their "ourselves alone" mentality. Sure many of them would barely acknowledge that the SDLP are a nationalist party anyway.

perhaps they can manage to put the country before the cult in this case.


This could run yet .  There are huge issues here potentially .  Is there an issue with state aid ???

I'd say so. Say you are Manor Farm  chickens, are you happy to have other chicken producers getting all this state money?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Tubberman on January 13, 2017, 03:11:58 PM
Held to ransom by a chicken factory, ffs lads.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: seafoid on January 13, 2017, 04:00:51 PM
Lagan Valley MLA Brenda Hale accused the BBC of having “caused regime change” and claimed that its journalism had actually been motivated by an unspecified desire to attack Arlene Foster for her “strong values

Read more at: http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/rhi-scandal-dup-mla-accuses-bbc-of-regime-change-over-coverage-1-7773108
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Rossfan on January 13, 2017, 04:11:16 PM
Good Jases where do they get them from!?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Tony Baloney on January 13, 2017, 04:36:21 PM
Lagan Valley MLA Brenda Hale accused the BBC of having “caused regime change” and claimed that its journalism had actually been motivated by an unspecified desire to attack Arlene Foster for her “strong values

Read more at: http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/rhi-scandal-dup-mla-accuses-bbc-of-regime-change-over-coverage-1-7773108
Formerly known as "enemy of the peace process".
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: seafoid on January 13, 2017, 04:54:49 PM
Irish speakers from south of the border do not even understand Sinn Fein when they stand up and speak Irish, a Church of Ireland cleric has said. Rev Alan Irwin from Lack Parish Church in Fermanagh was speaking after Communities Minister Paul Givan performed a U-turn on his decision to cut £50,000 funding to take children on Irish language field trips.“I have cousins who live south of the border who cannot grasp Sinn Fein members when they stand up and speak Irish,” Rev Irwin said. “They are concerned it is being used as a political tool.

Read more at: http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/southern-irish-speakers-cannot-understand-sf-1-7770902

Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: seafoid on January 13, 2017, 05:22:26 PM
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/opinion/arlene-foster-is-largely-responsible-for-rhi-chaos-and-should-step-aside-for-good-1-7762968
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Rossfan on January 13, 2017, 05:33:01 PM
Some right experts in an Ghaeilge among the Unionist community it seems.
Girvan was proclaiming yesterday that the Irish language belongs to everyone as he sought to deflect from his U turn.
He'll be signing up for lessons next!
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 13, 2017, 06:52:33 PM
Irish speakers from south of the border do not even understand Sinn Fein when they stand up and speak Irish, a Church of Ireland cleric has said. Rev Alan Irwin from Lack Parish Church in Fermanagh was speaking after Communities Minister Paul Givan performed a U-turn on his decision to cut £50,000 funding to take children on Irish language field trips.“I have cousins who live south of the border who cannot grasp Sinn Fein members when they stand up and speak Irish,” Rev Irwin said. “They are concerned it is being used as a political tool.

Read more at: http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/southern-irish-speakers-cannot-understand-sf-1-7770902

I don't speak or read Irish but I have been reliably informed by someone who is fluent and exceptionally well qualified in the language that the Irish delivered by many elected SF people is either just odd phrases or poorly constructed, grammatically poor and weakly delivered.

To me, and you can watch and listen online, G Adams was not convincing that he was fluent in Irish when he spoke at the Felons Club last Saturday.  He was much more fluent in English and his delivery of Irish was stuttered.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: seafoid on January 13, 2017, 07:26:22 PM
Irish speakers from south of the border do not even understand Sinn Fein when they stand up and speak Irish, a Church of Ireland cleric has said. Rev Alan Irwin from Lack Parish Church in Fermanagh was speaking after Communities Minister Paul Givan performed a U-turn on his decision to cut £50,000 funding to take children on Irish language field trips.“I have cousins who live south of the border who cannot grasp Sinn Fein members when they stand up and speak Irish,” Rev Irwin said. “They are concerned it is being used as a political tool.

Read more at: http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/southern-irish-speakers-cannot-understand-sf-1-7770902

I don't speak or read Irish but I have been reliably informed by someone who is fluent and exceptionally well qualified in the language that the Irish delivered by many elected SF people is either just odd phrases or poorly constructed, grammatically poor and weakly delivered.

To me, and you can watch and listen online, G Adams was not convincing that he was fluent in Irish when he spoke at the Felons Club last Saturday.  He was much more fluent in English and his delivery of Irish was stuttered.
In fairness to the Shinners it is a real language
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 13, 2017, 07:43:17 PM
Irish speakers from south of the border do not even understand Sinn Fein when they stand up and speak Irish, a Church of Ireland cleric has said. Rev Alan Irwin from Lack Parish Church in Fermanagh was speaking after Communities Minister Paul Givan performed a U-turn on his decision to cut £50,000 funding to take children on Irish language field trips.“I have cousins who live south of the border who cannot grasp Sinn Fein members when they stand up and speak Irish,” Rev Irwin said. “They are concerned it is being used as a political tool.

Read more at: http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/southern-irish-speakers-cannot-understand-sf-1-7770902



I don't speak or read Irish but I have been reliably informed by someone who is fluent and exceptionally well qualified in the language that the Irish delivered by many elected SF people is either just odd phrases or poorly constructed, grammatically poor and weakly delivered.

To me, and you can watch and listen online, G Adams was not convincing that he was fluent in Irish when he spoke at the Felons Club last Saturday.  He was much more fluent in English and his delivery of Irish was stuttered.
In fairness to the Shinners it is a real language

How often have you heard the Minister for Health speaking Irish?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: seafoid on January 13, 2017, 08:01:19 PM
Irish speakers from south of the border do not even understand Sinn Fein when they stand up and speak Irish, a Church of Ireland cleric has said. Rev Alan Irwin from Lack Parish Church in Fermanagh was speaking after Communities Minister Paul Givan performed a U-turn on his decision to cut £50,000 funding to take children on Irish language field trips.“I have cousins who live south of the border who cannot grasp Sinn Fein members when they stand up and speak Irish,” Rev Irwin said. “They are concerned it is being used as a political tool.

Read more at: http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/southern-irish-speakers-cannot-understand-sf-1-7770902



I don't speak or read Irish but I have been reliably informed by someone who is fluent and exceptionally well qualified in the language that the Irish delivered by many elected SF people is either just odd phrases or poorly constructed, grammatically poor and weakly delivered.

To me, and you can watch and listen online, G Adams was not convincing that he was fluent in Irish when he spoke at the Felons Club last Saturday.  He was much more fluent in English and his delivery of Irish was stuttered.
In fairness to the Shinners it is a real language

How often have you heard the Minister for Health speaking Irish?
Irish is not a makey uppy language

Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: seafoid on January 13, 2017, 08:02:34 PM
The Unionist papers are not impressed with Foster

"On the DUP side, there are obvious – and potentially critical – weaknesses. No party would relish an election on foot of the biggest financial scandal in the history of devolution when that party bears at least some of the blame.While there is no talk of removing Mrs Foster as leader, rank and file members of the DUP are dismayed at the leadership’s tone-deaf handling of a scandal where early humility would likely have rescued the situation. Some DUP members have told this newspaper that they will not be canvassing in the election, such is their disillusionment.Both major parties will have been conducting private polling over recent days and be heavily influence by it. But one factor should concern both the DUP and Sinn Fein. In 2016 people who had never voted before were crucial to the Brexit vote and the election of Donald Trump. Pollsters struggled to predict either.There is widespread anecdotal evidence that the RHI scandal has infuriated many non-political people in Northern Ireland. With 40% of the electorate not voting in the last election, if even a third of those people voted there is the potential that we are all shocked."

Read more at: http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/sam-mcbride-dup-and-sf-are-both-taking-mammoth-strategical-risks-1-7766619
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: armaghniac on January 13, 2017, 08:06:21 PM
Irish speakers from south of the border do not even understand Sinn Fein when they stand up and speak Irish, a Church of Ireland cleric has said. Rev Alan Irwin from Lack Parish Church in Fermanagh was speaking after Communities Minister Paul Givan performed a U-turn on his decision to cut £50,000 funding to take children on Irish language field trips.“I have cousins who live south of the border who cannot grasp Sinn Fein members when they stand up and speak Irish,” Rev Irwin said. “They are concerned it is being used as a political tool.

Read more at: http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/southern-irish-speakers-cannot-understand-sf-1-7770902

I don't speak or read Irish but I have been reliably informed by someone who is fluent and exceptionally well qualified in the language that the Irish delivered by many elected SF people is either just odd phrases or poorly constructed, grammatically poor and weakly delivered.

To me, and you can watch and listen online, G Adams was not convincing that he was fluent in Irish when he spoke at the Felons Club last Saturday.  He was much more fluent in English and his delivery of Irish was stuttered.

Is fearr Gaeilge bhriste ná Béarla cliste.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 13, 2017, 08:15:35 PM
Irish speakers from south of the border do not even understand Sinn Fein when they stand up and speak Irish, a Church of Ireland cleric has said. Rev Alan Irwin from Lack Parish Church in Fermanagh was speaking after Communities Minister Paul Givan performed a U-turn on his decision to cut £50,000 funding to take children on Irish language field trips.“I have cousins who live south of the border who cannot grasp Sinn Fein members when they stand up and speak Irish,” Rev Irwin said. “They are concerned it is being used as a political tool.

Read more at: http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/southern-irish-speakers-cannot-understand-sf-1-7770902

I don't speak or read Irish but I have been reliably informed by someone who is fluent and exceptionally well qualified in the language that the Irish delivered by many elected SF people is either just odd phrases or poorly constructed, grammatically poor and weakly delivered.

To me, and you can watch and listen online, G Adams was not convincing that he was fluent in Irish when he spoke at the Felons Club last Saturday.  He was much more fluent in English and his delivery of Irish was stuttered.

Is fearr Gaeilge bhriste ná Béarla cliste.

Though not much good if you make little sense in either language when trying to explain your actions:

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/irish-news/son-challenges-gerry-adams-to-name-ira-source-over-killing-of-prison-officer-35278749.html (http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/irish-news/son-challenges-gerry-adams-to-name-ira-source-over-killing-of-prison-officer-35278749.html)
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: hardstation on January 13, 2017, 08:17:24 PM
Irish speakers from south of the border do not even understand Sinn Fein when they stand up and speak Irish, a Church of Ireland cleric has said. Rev Alan Irwin from Lack Parish Church in Fermanagh was speaking after Communities Minister Paul Givan performed a U-turn on his decision to cut £50,000 funding to take children on Irish language field trips.“I have cousins who live south of the border who cannot grasp Sinn Fein members when they stand up and speak Irish,” Rev Irwin said. “They are concerned it is being used as a political tool.

Read more at: http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/southern-irish-speakers-cannot-understand-sf-1-7770902

I don't speak or read Irish but I have been reliably informed by someone who is fluent and exceptionally well qualified in the language that the Irish delivered by many elected SF people is either just odd phrases or poorly constructed, grammatically poor and weakly delivered.

To me, and you can watch and listen online, G Adams was not convincing that he was fluent in Irish when he spoke at the Felons Club last Saturday.  He was much more fluent in English and his delivery of Irish was stuttered.

Is fearr Gaeilge bhriste ná Béarla cliste.
That's dead on when you're 13 in the Gaeltacht to show you're deanamh iarracht, not when someone is representing you in important real life matters.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: seafoid on January 13, 2017, 10:51:09 PM
Shinners have the Ulster blas . I bet the correspondent of the Unionist spoke another version of Irish.
The Shinners make a decent effort at promoting the language that gave NI all its place names.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: hardstation on January 13, 2017, 11:06:52 PM
Shinners have the Ulster blas . I bet the correspondent of the Unionist spoke another version of Irish.
The Shinners make a decent effort at promoting the language that gave NI all its place names.
First bit is bollix to be fair.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: hardstation on January 13, 2017, 11:11:36 PM
And anyway, you can't group a "Sinn Fein Irish". For example, Adams & Ó Millionaire couldn't be compared in their proficiency in Irish.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: seafoid on January 13, 2017, 11:19:14 PM
Shinners have the Ulster blas . I bet the correspondent of the Unionist spoke another version of Irish.
The Shinners make a decent effort at promoting the language that gave NI all its place names.
First bit is bollix to be fair.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVUVW26tXDA
2.35

a cuig, a sé, a seart
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: hardstation on January 13, 2017, 11:21:37 PM
Shinners have the Ulster blas . I bet the correspondent of the Unionist spoke another version of Irish.
The Shinners make a decent effort at promoting the language that gave NI all its place names.
First bit is bollix to be fair.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVUVW26tXDA
2.35

a cuig, a sé, a seart
People with Ulster Irish are easily understood. People with poor Irish are not. Don't confuse the two.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Applesisapples on January 14, 2017, 09:25:19 AM
Irish speakers from south of the border do not even understand Sinn Fein when they stand up and speak Irish, a Church of Ireland cleric has said. Rev Alan Irwin from Lack Parish Church in Fermanagh was speaking after Communities Minister Paul Givan performed a U-turn on his decision to cut £50,000 funding to take children on Irish language field trips.“I have cousins who live south of the border who cannot grasp Sinn Fein members when they stand up and speak Irish,” Rev Irwin said. “They are concerned it is being used as a political tool.

Read more at: http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/southern-irish-speakers-cannot-understand-sf-1-7770902

I don't speak or read Irish but I have been reliably informed by someone who is fluent and exceptionally well qualified in the language that the Irish delivered by many elected SF people is either just odd phrases or poorly constructed, grammatically poor and weakly delivered.

To me, and you can watch and listen online, G Adams was not convincing that he was fluent in Irish when he spoke at the Felons Club last Saturday.  He was much more fluent in English and his delivery of Irish was stuttered.
This is such a pompous position to take, how is the Irish language going to spread if you disparage people trying their best to use it on a daily basis? Politics aside I commend anyone trying to use Irish, I have a smattering of Irish and try to use odd phrases in my daily routine, where appropriate. This type of attitude is off putting.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on January 14, 2017, 09:31:14 AM
The Unionist papers are not impressed with Foster

This. You have quoted the News Letter, and I have read a number of similar articles in the Belfast Telegraph.

The whole issue is a topic for discussion amongst many up here and anyone I'm speaking to seems to feel that an election will make little difference to anything, as most of us who vote up here simply follow the herd. However I'm not so sure this time. I feel there is a possibility that the UUP / Alliance could make significant gains at the expense of the DUP - Mike Nesbitt's decision to go into opposition could yet prove inspired.

Many of the articles that I've read in the News Letter and the Telegraph do suggest that there is a lot of anger / disillusionment with DUP grass roots over the manner in which this crisis has been managed. It is clear - particularly from Paul Givan's volte-face on Líofa funding - that the DUP are very worried about the forthcoming election.

Suzanne Breen's excellent article in today's Telegraph (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/news-analysis/arlene-fosters-tarnished-image-could-see-dup-battered-at-the-polling-booths-35366988.html) referred to Brexit and Donald Trump's victory to suggest that electorates are becoming increasingly emboldened in the way they vote. If that trend was to continue in a new election, there has to be a possibility of Sinn Fein becoming the largest party up here and thus taking the post of First Minister. I wonder what that would do for the long term future of the political institutions? 
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Dougal Maguire on January 14, 2017, 09:48:59 AM
Irish speakers from south of the border do not even understand Sinn Fein when they stand up and speak Irish, a Church of Ireland cleric has said. Rev Alan Irwin from Lack Parish Church in Fermanagh was speaking after Communities Minister Paul Givan performed a U-turn on his decision to cut £50,000 funding to take children on Irish language field trips.“I have cousins who live south of the border who cannot grasp Sinn Fein members when they stand up and speak Irish,” Rev Irwin said. “They are concerned it is being used as a political tool.

Read more at: http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/southern-irish-speakers-cannot-understand-sf-1-7770902

I don't speak or read Irish but I have been reliably informed by someone who is fluent and exceptionally well qualified in the language that the Irish delivered by many elected SF people is either just odd phrases or poorly constructed, grammatically poor and weakly delivered.

To me, and you can watch and listen online, G Adams was not convincing that he was fluent in Irish when he spoke at the Felons Club last Saturday.  He was much more fluent in English and his delivery of Irish was stuttered.
This is such a pompous position to take, how is the Irish language going to spread if you disparage people trying their best to use it on a daily basis? Politics aside I commend anyone trying to use Irish, I have a smattering of Irish and try to use odd phrases in my daily routine, where appropriate. This type of attitude is off putting.
Excellent post.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: seafoid on January 14, 2017, 10:14:09 AM
Shinners have the Ulster blas . I bet the correspondent of the Unionist spoke another version of Irish.
The Shinners make a decent effort at promoting the language that gave NI all its place names.
First bit is bollix to be fair.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVUVW26tXDA
2.35

a cuig, a sé, a seart
People with Ulster Irish are easily understood. People with poor Irish are not. Don't confuse the two.
Dubs speaking Irish can often make mistakes too. It doesn't take away from the effort.
I think it is impressive when people learn Irish. Giving any language a go should be lauded.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Kidder81 on January 14, 2017, 10:47:03 AM
The best of it is SF & DUP have known about RHI scandal for over a year
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Rossfan on January 14, 2017, 11:22:52 AM
Shinners have the Ulster blas . I bet the correspondent of the Unionist spoke another version of Irish.
The Shinners make a decent effort at promoting the language that gave NI all its place names.
First bit is bollix to be fair.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVUVW26tXDA
2.35

a cuig, a sé, a seart
People with Ulster Irish are easily understood.
Did you ever watch those comedies from Donegal on TG4?
Only time I ever had to totally rely on the subtitles ( except for goidé which can mean anyrhing)
Total Swahili job altogether.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: omagh_gael on January 14, 2017, 01:13:25 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38622869

I wonder if there's any legs in this?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 14, 2017, 01:24:41 PM
As election looms, late DUP bid to cut vast RHI costs

SAM MCBRIDE

A year after Arlene Foster and Martin McGuinness’s office was warned that the RHI scheme was being seriously abused, last night emergency legislation to rein in the out of control project was tabled.

As Stormont appears all but certain to collapse next week and politicians contemplate facing an electorate enraged by revelations of the ineptitude at the heart of the RHI scheme, DUP economy minister Simon Hamilton made a last-minute attempt to cut the cost to taxpayers.

Mr Hamilton tabled a hastily-constructed proposal – which appears to only have been pushed to the front of the political agenda after BBC Spotlight exposed the scale of the RHI squander last month – at the Assembly’s business committee yesterday evening.

The regulations were only circulated to MLAs yesterday afternoon, meaning that most MLAs who will be asked to vote on the legislation on Monday will only have the weekend to consider a legally complex proposal. The legislation would retrospectively alter RHI claimants’ contracts to introduce tiering and a cap on what can be claimed – the two critical measures to safeguard public money in the GB scheme which were consciously stripped out by Arlene Foster’s department in 2012.

Mrs Foster has blamed her officials for that decision. Last week Mrs Foster vowed to “bring that potential [RHI] cost down to zero” and added: “There will be no overspend.” However, neither the regulations themselves nor the accompanying ‘explanatory memorandum’ which explains the legislation make any reference to the overspend being entirely eradicated. Costs of the RHI debacle are rising at £85,000 a day.

Meanwhile, fresh concerns about the scale of the RHI squander have been expressed after it emerged that 44% of boilers inspected have had their payments suspended.

The regulations would put in place a less lucrative scheme for one year as “the first stage of cost control measures to permit further consideration of longer term cost control measures...on 31st March 2018”.

Aside from questions about the legality of retrospectively changing the RHI contracts, the explanatory memorandum contains several statements which would appear to leave the regulations vulnerable to legal challenge, but which have been necessary because of the haste with which Stormont has suddenly acted since the BBC Spotlight programme on December 6.

The formal memorandum states that there has been “no opportunity to consult on the introduction of these first stage measures” but that it would “give consideration to consultation” before the next stage in a year’s time. The department also admitted that it had not carried out an Equality Impact Assessment, had not carried out a Regulatory Impact Assessment and said that “the financial implications will be further examined as part of the next stage”.

A lawyer who spoke to the News Letter yesterday before the text of the regulations emerged expressed serious concern about what the public was being told about the possibility of rectifying the RHI errors. He said that it was “nonsense” to suggest that the solution could involve no cost to taxpayers and said there was an onus on the DUP and Sinn Fein to admit that “corrective legislation will result in a huge cost to the public purse”.

He said that any retrospective legislation of this nature would be subject to scrutiny for compatibility with the European Convention on Human Rights – which sets out property rights – and added: “The cynic in me believes that the politicians would prefer to pass legislation which they know will fall foul of the ECHR in the knowledge that they will be long gone by the time the ECtHR makes a ruling on the legislation or, if not gone, that the public will have forgotten about it in the interim.”

Yesterday the BBC reported that OFGEM, which administers the RHI scheme, has suspended payments for 33 of the 63 installations they have inspected. Money was recovered in four of the cases – a change from the situation just a fortnight ago when Mr Hamilton’s department told the News Letter that no money had been recouped.


http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/as-election-looms-late-dup-bid-to-cut-vast-rhi-costs-1-7774049
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 14, 2017, 01:25:38 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38622869

I wonder if there's any legs in this?

Another example of Givan overspending and he carries the responsibility for this and the biased distribution of the funds for so called community halls but where are the controls by the Dept of Finance and its minister to prevent such overspending?  Can any minister just spend what they want the money is made available.  Givan has been shown to have overspent by £1.4m on these orange halls and £98K on marching bands with no controls in place.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 14, 2017, 01:49:16 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38622869

I wonder if there's any legs in this?

Another example of Givan overspending and he carries the responsibility for this and the biased distribution of the funds for so called community halls but where are the controls by the Dept of Finance and its minister to prevent such overspending?  Can any minister just spend what they want the money is made available.  Givan has been shown to have overspent by £1.4m on these orange halls and £98K on marching bands with no controls in place.

They seem to make it up as they go along.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Applesisapples on January 14, 2017, 02:28:44 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38622869

I wonder if there's any legs in this?

Another example of Givan overspending and he carries the responsibility for this and the biased distribution of the funds for so called community halls but where are the controls by the Dept of Finance and its minister to prevent such overspending?  Can any minister just spend what they want the money is made available.  Givan has been shown to have overspent by £1.4m on these orange halls and £98K on marching bands with no controls in place.

They seem to make it up as they go along.
This is exactly why the Shinners had to pull the plug.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 14, 2017, 02:39:05 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38622869

I wonder if there's any legs in this?

Another example of Givan overspending and he carries the responsibility for this and the biased distribution of the funds for so called community halls but where are the controls by the Dept of Finance and its minister to prevent such overspending?  Can any minister just spend what they want the money is made available.  Givan has been shown to have overspent by £1.4m on these orange halls and £98K on marching bands with no controls in place.

They seem to make it up as they go along.
This is exactly why the Shinners had to pull the plug.

SF hold the finance ministry and hence the tap on the funds to all depts as was shown when DUP held this responsibility.  The overspending and waste during the current assembly is the responsibility of the SF minister for finance, he is responsible for maintaining the control on expenditure by turning on and off the tap to each dept.  Why was Givan allowed to overspend, was it a tit for tat on a SF ministry or a share of the £80m set aside to soothe the paramilitaries? 

SF pulled the plug because they want to reset the process by other means by holding the country to ransom while they renegotiate another deal with DUP, Fresh Start 2. Adams has moved to the ascendency and taken advantage of the situation.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Kidder81 on January 14, 2017, 02:40:38 PM
Why was nothing done a year ago when Sinn Fein became aware of RHI?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Denn Forever on January 14, 2017, 02:46:25 PM
Can anyone see SF losing any seats? i suppose each side wil; blame the other. 
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: armaghniac on January 14, 2017, 02:51:41 PM
Can anyone see SF losing any seats? i suppose each side wil; blame the other.

Everyone will lose seats, as the number of seats per constituency is going from 6 to 5.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 14, 2017, 02:59:04 PM
Why was nothing done a year ago when Sinn Fein became aware of RHI?

They were trying to brush it under the carpet along with the DUP.

Only for Nolan picking up on the excellent Spotlight programme I doubt that we would have heard much about it.

Last October Sandra Overend the UUP MLA asked MOM about the overspend on RHI.

This is a short clip of her question and his answer.

https://twitter.com/over2sandra/status/819964664280993794
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: BennyCake on January 14, 2017, 03:57:44 PM
Can anyone see SF losing any seats? i suppose each side wil; blame the other.

Everyone will lose seats, as the number of seats per constituency is going from 6 to 5.

Maybe they should just play musical chairs to see who gets a constituency seat. Would save everyone from having to vote.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: seafoid on January 14, 2017, 04:32:10 PM
Why was nothing done a year ago when Sinn Fein became aware of RHI?

They were trying to brush it under the carpet along with the DUP.

Only for Nolan picking up on the excellent Spotlight programme I doubt that we would have heard much about it.

Last October Sandra Overend the UUP MLA asked MOM about the overspend on RHI.

This is a short clip of her question and his answer.

https://twitter.com/over2sandra/status/819964664280993794
DUP Sinn Féin is a nice marketing meme for the UUP
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 14, 2017, 09:20:24 PM
Can anyone see SF losing any seats? i suppose each side wil; blame the other.

Everyone will lose seats, as the number of seats per constituency is going from 6 to 5.

Maybe they should just play musical chairs to see who gets a constituency seat. Would save everyone from having to vote.

It has been suggested that 90 ordinary citizens should be chosen at random to be the MLAs.  They couldn't do much worse than the current lot and save £5m.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Orior on January 14, 2017, 09:42:06 PM
Can you find 90 ordinary citizens that can put up with:

- Being at work 24 x 7
- Promise stuff in manifestos knowing rightly that it cannot be delivered
- Their every movement being reported in the press
- Willing to always follow party policy
- Their lives being discussed in detail on message boards
- Siblings also loosing their privacy
- Don't make people feel sick
- Every man in the street thinking that they know you and saying hello, or worse
- Wlling to implement english led budget cuts
- Can debate on television
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: BennyCake on January 14, 2017, 10:03:20 PM
...don't forget being handy with a pair of scissors. Them Leisure centres won't open themselves.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 14, 2017, 10:09:40 PM
Check out this recent polling and the changes after RHI comes to the fore:

https://lucidtalk.co.uk/images/News/LTDec16TrackerPollResults-GeneralRpt.pdf (https://lucidtalk.co.uk/images/News/LTDec16TrackerPollResults-GeneralRpt.pdf)
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Orior on January 16, 2017, 12:50:46 PM
Question for the shinners: Could an election be avoided if Arlene stepped aside now for a RHI enquiry?

PS. I am not from the DUP.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: johnneycool on January 16, 2017, 01:46:14 PM
I'd doubt it especially now with Mr Givan being especially generous to Orange Orders and flute bands with the Community Hall grants that he needed to find another £1.5M for after the first £0.5M that was budgeted for it was spunked.

Two GAA clubs on the list as opposed to 35 odd LOL's.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/full-list-northern-ireland-community-halls-to-receive-share-of-19m-fund-35370842.html

Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Hereiam on January 16, 2017, 01:53:09 PM
How was this let go by both SF & SDLP, was anyone doing their job up on the hill.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 16, 2017, 08:35:15 PM
How was this let go by both SF & SDLP, was anyone doing their job up on the hill.

They were asleep at the wheel by not looking further into the scheme they agreed on.

Page 17 details the discussion in Stormont and who approved the scheme in 2012 

http://www.niassembly.gov.uk/globalassets/documents/official-reports/plenary/2012-13/aims-hansard-20121022213141531.pdf

Plus, the DUP were aware in mid 2015 of the over spend, and in January 2016, Sinn Fein were aware of the over spend.

For nearly one full year they did nothing about it until the Spotlight programme and subsequent media investigations.

To date, they still haven't done anything about it.....
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 16, 2017, 08:38:22 PM
RHI scandal: Jonathan Bell claims DUP 'industry interests' advice stopped scrutiny

MLA Jonathan Bell has claimed he was told he would not be able to challenge the Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI) scheme because two DUP special advisers "have extensive interests in the poultry industry".

Mr Bell made the allegation while speaking under parliamentary privilege.

The advisers named by Mr Bell, Timothy Johnston and John Robinson, have denied the claims.

The DUP said the claims were "outrageous".

MLAs have been debating the RHI scheme at Stormont.

A motion to delay the debate by a week, in the wake of the Secretary of State James Brokenshire's announcement of an election, was interrupted when Mr Bell made dramatic claims about the DUP.

Mr Bell said when he was enterprise minister his special advisor, Timothy Cairns, told him "he will not be allowed to reduce the tariff on (the RHI) scheme" because of Mr Johnston and Mr Robinson's "extensive interests in the poultry industry".

He added that he has "kept the records in many, many formats" and that he had been suspended from the party for "telling the truth".

He also claimed that Mr Robinson and Dr Andrew Crawford, a DUP party adviser, had issued instructions to "try not to get Arlene called to the Public Accounts Committee (PAC)" and "under no circumstance allow Jonathan Bell to be called" over their roles in the RHI scheme.

The DUP said the claims were "outrageous, untrue and unfounded" and "nothing short of mud-slinging".

They said that neither Mr Johnston nor Mr Robinson have interests in the poultry industry, and added that Mr Robinson's "family home farm have chicken houses but are not part of the RHI scheme and never have been recipients or applicants".

'No personal interest'

Mr Johnston, the special adviser to Arlene Foster when she was first minister, said: "I have no family connections to the poultry industry and I have no connection to the RHI scheme.

"These are unsubstantiated allegations. I have two brothers-in-law in the poultry industry. They have no connection to RHI."

Mr Robinson, special adviser to Economy Minister Simon Hamilton, said: "I have no personal interest in the poultry industry. Two of my brothers are poultry farmers but they have no connections to RHI."

Dr Crawford, a former special adviser to the Department of Finance, told the BBC last month that his brother is the director of a company which successfully applied to the RHI scheme.

He said: "I never sought to keep the RHI scheme open at the original higher tariff against the wishes of the minister."

Overspend

Mr Bell broke ranks with his party and made serious allegations against the DUP over the scheme's operation in a BBC interview in December.

He claimed that DUP advisers had attempted to remove Mrs Foster's name from documents linked to RHI.

Mr Bell was later suspended from the DUP.

The RHI scheme was set up by former first minister Arlene Foster in 2012 when she was enterprise minister.

Its aim was to increase consumption of heat from renewable sources.

However, businesses received more in subsidies than they paid for fuel, and the scheme became heavily oversubscribed.

It could lead to an overspend of £490m over the next 20 years.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38639616?utm_source=dlvr.it&#38
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: ashman on January 16, 2017, 11:23:16 PM
Dixie

Would there be a lot of poultry farmers in Tyrone and Fernanagh ???
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: heganboy on January 16, 2017, 11:27:30 PM
Dixie

Would there be a lot of poultry farmers in Tyrone and Fermanagh ???

They're all in south armagh
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 16, 2017, 11:40:04 PM
Dixie

Would there be a lot of poultry farmers in Tyrone and Fernanagh ???

Tyrone is has almost as many hen houses as it has wind turbines.  Possibly the highest density of both in the country.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Dougal Maguire on January 17, 2017, 02:46:47 AM
The key words in Johnny Bell's statement are 'in many many formats'. Nolan has some of these in a format which can't be questioned.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: haranguerer on January 17, 2017, 08:11:18 AM
Fact of the matter is, everyone let it go. It wasn't just freely available, it was widely known, here is it in the paper in July 2016, months before the row.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/farmer-gets-1m-of-public-cash-to-heat-empty-shed-catastrophic-blunder-threatening-to-drain-hundreds-of-millions-from-northern-irelands-block-grant-34856610.html

It wasn't until a tv programme told us we should be outraged, that we were outraged. Take from that what you will.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 17, 2017, 10:34:06 AM
Nolan has published the RHI applications by postcode. 

Tyrone is the hottest county in the country.

The top 5 postcodes:

The top five areas which have RHI claimants by post code are:

BT70 - Dungannon and South Tyrone - 192 applications

BT71 - Dungannons and South Tyrone - 150 applications

BT60 - Armagh - 112 applications

BT44 - Ballymena - 90 applications

BT78 - Omagh - 82 applications   (BT79 - Omagh - 67 applications)  Total = 149

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/revealed-location-of-all-firms-and-farms-that-joined-botched-rhi-energy-scheme-in-northern-ireland-35373480.html (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/revealed-location-of-all-firms-and-farms-that-joined-botched-rhi-energy-scheme-in-northern-ireland-35373480.html)
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: armaghniac on January 17, 2017, 11:26:25 AM
Not so many in S. Armagh, people there prefer to use diesel on their farms than wood.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Rois on January 17, 2017, 11:57:54 AM
Dixie

Would there be a lot of poultry farmers in Tyrone and Fernanagh ???
My aunt has a hen house, has had it for years and years.  Pomeroy direction. 

You'd need to look at the equipment manufacturers too for links...I'd been told that the timing of closure of the scheme was influenced by the timing of a sale of a boiler supply company.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: ashman on January 17, 2017, 12:16:19 PM
There are big issues here .  This is really state aid to NI poultry farmers and processers.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 17, 2017, 01:34:12 PM
The scheme worked by a person buying the boiler and equipment for wood pellets and then making an application for subsidy on the new equipment.

For anyone who has experience of applying for grant aid from the government, it is the norm that you make an application and then on approval by government agency you go ahead and spend the money.

This means that boiler manufacturers had to push out the equipment before the scheme started to repay the user.  Hence, Arlene writing to banks to say that they should lend to anyone installing a pellet burner because repayments were virtually guaranteed over 20 years.

If the payments are cut then repayments to the banks for equipment will come under severe pressure.  Not sure if boiler manufacturers offered their own finance schemes on the basis of the profit to be made.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 17, 2017, 02:09:25 PM
Dixie

Would there be a lot of poultry farmers in Tyrone and Fernanagh ???

South Tyrone, East Fermanagh, and north Armagh would be the areas with the highest concentration of poultry houses.

In addition to that, north An trim has been an area of rapid growth in poultry houses following the Moy Park
take over of O'Kanes in 2010.

From the figures released today, we now know that they have the highest uptake of the RHI scheme.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 17, 2017, 02:11:52 PM
Dixie

Would there be a lot of poultry farmers in Tyrone and Fernanagh ???

Tyrone is has almost as many hen houses as it has wind turbines.  Possibly the highest density of both in the country.

It is incredible the amount of wind farms that have sprung up across the county.

I drove across from Garvaghey to Carrickmore and into Pomeroy last week and there must have been 100 of them built or in construction. There has to be some kind of lucrative scheme going on there, as well as fast tracking planning permission.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 17, 2017, 02:16:01 PM
Fact of the matter is, everyone let it go. It wasn't just freely available, it was widely known, here is it in the paper in July 2016, months before the row.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/farmer-gets-1m-of-public-cash-to-heat-empty-shed-catastrophic-blunder-threatening-to-drain-hundreds-of-millions-from-northern-irelands-block-grant-34856610.html

It wasn't until a tv programme told us we should be outraged, that we were outraged. Take from that what you will.

I knew nothing about the scheme until I saw the Spotlight programme. Then following a couple of Nolan shows, I did some
investigating on line. Within a couple of hours it was clear to me that Moy Park were the big winners in this.

The DUP knew there were flaws for a while, and Sinn Fein knew for a year.

Is it any wonder both parties refused to ask for a public inquiry?

And with the DUP now looking a public inquiry, it leaves Sinn Fein as the only party not looking for one.

What have they got to hide?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 17, 2017, 02:19:42 PM
RHI scandal: Locations of RHI boilers revealed to BBC

Most companies on the lucrative RHI scheme are based in mid-Ulster and north Antrim, according to information passed to the BBC.

A regional breakdown of installations published by the Stephen Nolan Show on Radio Ulster shows the biggest cluster is around Dungannon, County Tyrone.

There are 342 boilers there - about one-in-six of the total.

The statistics show the total of 2,128 recipients are split roughly between commercial and farming interests.

Around Ballymena and Ballymoney there are 276 boilers.

Poultry farmers are heavily represented, accounting for 871 of the installations.

The two main clusters are close to Moy Park's processing plants in Northern Ireland, in Ballymena and Dungannon.

Poultry farmers use the boilers to heat chicken houses where the birds are reared.

Many switched from LPG gas to biomass in recent years.

Other areas where there are significant numbers of boilers by postcode include Armagh which has 112 and Omagh which has 82.

Last week, Finance Minister Máirtín Ó Muilleoir said a Moy Park briefing with his officials had raised "issues" about the operation of the RHI scheme.

Moy Park later issued a statement but made no reference to those issues.

On Monday, the former DETI minister Jonathan Bell claimed under assembly privilege that he had been told DUP special advisers Timothy Johnston and John Robinson had extensive interests in the poultry industry, and that he would not be allowed to reduce the RHI tariff as a result.

The DUP later issued a statement of categorical denial on behalf of both men.

John Robinson said he had "no personal interest" in the poultry industry. He said two of his brothers were poultry farmers but were not in the RHI.

Timothy Johnston said he had "no family connections to the poultry industry". He said he had two brothers in law in the poultry industry but neither had any connection with the RHI.

On Tuesday, Mr Bell said he was prepared to repeat allegations he made about the role played by special advisers in the RHI scheme, to a judge-led inquiry.

Consumption of heat

He was speaking during an an opposition debate in the Assembly calling for a public inquiry into the controversial scheme.

He also made further allegations about the RHI scheme - suggesting at least one DUP special adviser might have up to eight boilers. The party said it was an "outrageous claim".

MLAs later voted for a public inquiry to be called into the controversy in a debate where Sinn Féin were absent.

The Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI) scheme was an attempt by the Northern Ireland Executive to help to increase consumption of heat from renewable sources.

But flaws in setting the scheme's subsidy rate left it open to abuse as claimants could earn more cash the more fuel they burned, with the overspend estimated to be about £490m.

It has been centre stage in politics in Northern Ireland over the past month, with the resignation of Martin McGuinness as deputy first minister bringing the issue to a head.

Sinn Féin's refusal to re-nominate a deputy first minister on Monday left Secretary of State James Brokenshire with no option but to call fresh Assembly elections on 2 March.

Former first minister Arlene Foster set up the scheme in 2012 when she was enterprise minister.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38651736?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_news_ni&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=northern_ireland
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Hereiam on January 17, 2017, 02:34:57 PM
Dixie

Would there be a lot of poultry farmers in Tyrone and Fernanagh ???

Tyrone is has almost as many hen houses as it has wind turbines.  Possibly the highest density of both in the country.

It is incredible the amount of wind farms that have sprung up across the county.

I drove across from Garvaghey to Carrickmore and into Pomeroy last week and there must have been 100 of them built or in construction. There has to be some kind of lucrative scheme going on there, as well as fast tracking planning permission.

It is ridiculous the amount of them that is going up in that area. They really are a blight on the countryside and people are just letting it happen.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: OgraAnDun on January 17, 2017, 02:48:15 PM
Dixie

Would there be a lot of poultry farmers in Tyrone and Fernanagh ???

Tyrone is has almost as many hen houses as it has wind turbines.  Possibly the highest density of both in the country.

It is incredible the amount of wind farms that have sprung up across the county.

I drove across from Garvaghey to Carrickmore and into Pomeroy last week and there must have been 100 of them built or in construction. There has to be some kind of lucrative scheme going on there, as well as fast tracking planning permission.

It is ridiculous the amount of them that is going up in that area. They really are a blight on the countryside and people are just letting it happen.

Rising sea levels caused by global warming which has a direct link to greenhouse gas emissions from non-renewable energy sources will be a considerably more serious blight in the decades to come.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 17, 2017, 02:53:06 PM
Dixie

Would there be a lot of poultry farmers in Tyrone and Fernanagh ???

Tyrone is has almost as many hen houses as it has wind turbines.  Possibly the highest density of both in the country.

It is incredible the amount of wind farms that have sprung up across the county.

I drove across from Garvaghey to Carrickmore and into Pomeroy last week and there must have been 100 of them built or in construction. There has to be some kind of lucrative scheme going on there, as well as fast tracking planning permission.

It is ridiculous the amount of them that is going up in that area. They really are a blight on the countryside and people are just letting it happen.

I couldn't believe the amount of them in an area of outstanding natural beauty.

How are they getting planning permission, and who is giving it?

I wonder how much the land owner is getting for each one going up?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: johnneycool on January 17, 2017, 02:55:19 PM
Dixie

Would there be a lot of poultry farmers in Tyrone and Fernanagh ???

Tyrone is has almost as many hen houses as it has wind turbines.  Possibly the highest density of both in the country.

It is incredible the amount of wind farms that have sprung up across the county.

I drove across from Garvaghey to Carrickmore and into Pomeroy last week and there must have been 100 of them built or in construction. There has to be some kind of lucrative scheme going on there, as well as fast tracking planning permission.

It is ridiculous the amount of them that is going up in that area. They really are a blight on the countryside and people are just letting it happen.

I couldn't believe the amount of them in an area of outstanding natural beauty.

How are they getting planning permission, and who is giving it?

I wonder how much the land owner is getting for each one going up?

Was told by a local farmer they'd two options, one off payment of £20K or a set fee per year, but I think that's all hit on the head now.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: NAG1 on January 17, 2017, 03:04:15 PM
It is in the region of 60k per year per Windmill.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 17, 2017, 07:34:40 PM
It is not just the wind turbines that are a blight on the countryside but the electrical infrastructure that is required to carry the electricity away.

There is a huge substation being built in the shadow of the Tyrone GAA HQ in Garvaghey and it is linked to Omagh and Tamnamore by pylons carrying cables in both directions.  It begs the question as to where the electricity from all of those turbines was going until this infrastructure is completed.

Again Arlene has added to this problem.  When she was DETI minister she had the opportunity to have a 600MW off shore wind farm built off the north coast.  Due to her approach to her work she missed the deadline for the invitation from the GB Treasury for the wind farm and it was constructed off the GB coast.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 17, 2017, 08:55:22 PM
DUP adviser says father-in-law runs two boilers under RHI energy scheme

A DUP adviser accused by a party rebel of blocking cost controls on the RHI has said his father-in-law runs two green energy boilers under the scheme.

John Robinson, special adviser to current DUP Economy minister Simon Hamilton, insisted the poultry farmer signed up to the scheme before he married his daughter and stressed he had never advised anyone to join the botched state-subsidy initiative.

Mr Robinson, a former director of communications with the DUP, told the Press Association neither he or his wife had any direct involvement with the business or RHI.

He said his father-in-law joined the scheme before he started to work directly with Mr Hamilton.

On Monday, suspended DUP MLA Jonathan Bell used Assembly privilege to claim he was thwarted in his efforts to clamp down on the multi-million pound RHI overspend because two DUP special advisers "have such extensive interests in the poultry industry".

Mr Bell, himself a former DUP economy minister, named Mr Robinson and fellow DUP special adviser Timothy Johnston.

In response, the DUP branded Mr Bell's allegations as "outrageous, untrue and unfounded mud-slinging".

A party statement on Monday said: "Timothy Johnston has no interests whatsoever in the poultry industry and does not benefit or have any family members who applied to or benefit from RHI.

"John Robinson has no personal interest in the poultry industry. His family home farm have chicken houses but are not part of the RHI scheme and never have been recipients or applicants."

In response to specific queries from the Press Association on Tuesday, Mr Robinson said his father-in-law was part of the RHI scheme.

"I have never had any personal financial interest in the RHI scheme," he said.

"At no point have I ever advised anyone to join the scheme or sought to benefit in any way from it.

"I have two brothers who are poultry farmers. They are not part of the scheme nor did they apply to the scheme.

"My father-in-law purchased two 36KW boilers for his poultry business in May 2015, they were installed in July 2015 and he applied to the scheme on August 3 2015.

"This was before I was married in October 2015. At no time did we discuss any aspect of the scheme nor was I aware of his application to the scheme.

"Neither my wife nor I have ever had any role in the business nor have we received any benefit, financial or otherwise, from the business.

"I was appointed as an adviser in the Department for the Economy in June 2016. I was not involved in any aspect of the RHI scheme prior to taking up the post."

Mr Bell and senior DUP figures, including leader Arlene Foster, are at odds about the chain of events that led to cost controls being introduced into the widely over-budget scheme and its ultimate closure.

He was suspended from the party after making serious allegations against Mrs Foster and a number of party advisers in a TV interview before Christmas. His accusations were denied by all those he named.

The Strangford MLA's subsequent claims in an Assembly debate on Monday came at a time when Mr Hamilton is facing growing pressure to publish the names of all the beneficiaries of the RHI scheme.

http://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2017/01/17/news/dup-adviser-says-father-in-law-runs-two-boilers-under-rhi-energy-scheme-890593/?param=ds441rif44T
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: omaghjoe on January 17, 2017, 09:10:23 PM
Dixie

Would there be a lot of poultry farmers in Tyrone and Fernanagh ???

Tyrone is has almost as many hen houses as it has wind turbines.  Possibly the highest density of both in the country.

It is incredible the amount of wind farms that have sprung up across the county.

I drove across from Garvaghey to Carrickmore and into Pomeroy last week and there must have been 100 of them built or in construction. There has to be some kind of lucrative scheme going on there, as well as fast tracking planning permission.

It is ridiculous the amount of them that is going up in that area. They really are a blight on the countryside and people are just letting it happen.

Rising sea levels caused by global warming which has a direct link to greenhouse gas emissions from non-renewable energy sources will be a considerably more serious blight in the decades to come.

Or slap one nuclear power plant up at magiligan, far cheaper, less CO2 emissions, powers the whole place and no one even knows its there
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: JoG2 on January 17, 2017, 09:50:55 PM
Dixie

Would there be a lot of poultry farmers in Tyrone and Fernanagh ???

Tyrone is has almost as many hen houses as it has wind turbines.  Possibly the highest density of both in the country.

It is incredible the amount of wind farms that have sprung up across the county.

I drove across from Garvaghey to Carrickmore and into Pomeroy last week and there must have been 100 of them built or in construction. There has to be some kind of lucrative scheme going on there, as well as fast tracking planning permission.

It is ridiculous the amount of them that is going up in that area. They really are a blight on the countryside and people are just letting it happen.

Rising sea levels caused by global warming which has a direct link to greenhouse gas emissions from non-renewable energy sources will be a considerably more serious blight in the decades to come.

Or slap one nuclear power plant up at magiligan, far cheaper, less CO2 emissions, powers the whole place and no one even knows its there

Magilligan is built on reclaimed land.. You'd want to build it on higher ground to get value for money!  Garvaghy?  ;D
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: whiskeysteve on January 17, 2017, 10:08:13 PM
Dixie

Would there be a lot of poultry farmers in Tyrone and Fernanagh ???

Tyrone is has almost as many hen houses as it has wind turbines.  Possibly the highest density of both in the country.

It is incredible the amount of wind farms that have sprung up across the county.

I drove across from Garvaghey to Carrickmore and into Pomeroy last week and there must have been 100 of them built or in construction. There has to be some kind of lucrative scheme going on there, as well as fast tracking planning permission.

It is ridiculous the amount of them that is going up in that area. They really are a blight on the countryside and people are just letting it happen.

Rising sea levels caused by global warming which has a direct link to greenhouse gas emissions from non-renewable energy sources will be a considerably more serious blight in the decades to come.

Or slap one nuclear power plant up at magiligan, far cheaper, less CO2 emissions, powers the whole place and no one even knows its there

Magilligan is built on reclaimed land.. You'd want to build it on higher ground to get value for money!  Garvaghy?  ;D

Magilligans pitch would be a great spot for a wind farm
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Hereiam on January 17, 2017, 10:45:26 PM
So possible fraud has been discovered and the police have not been involved yet. Of course the the RUC will carry out a fair and impartial investigation. 😢😢😢
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 17, 2017, 11:11:00 PM
So possible fraud has been discovered and the police have not been involved yet. Of course the the RUC will carry out a fair and impartial investigation. 😢😢😢


http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/rhi-scandal-psni-considering-request-for-investigation-after-receiving-letter-from-ulster-unionist-mla-steve-aiken-35376322.html
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 18, 2017, 12:06:30 AM
I wonder would they take so long to decide to investigate if it was a shinner that was suspected of wrongdoing.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: johnneycool on January 18, 2017, 08:59:40 AM
DUP adviser says father-in-law runs two boilers under RHI energy scheme

A DUP adviser accused by a party rebel of blocking cost controls on the RHI has said his father-in-law runs two green energy boilers under the scheme.

John Robinson, special adviser to current DUP Economy minister Simon Hamilton, insisted the poultry farmer signed up to the scheme before he married his daughter and stressed he had never advised anyone to join the botched state-subsidy initiative.

Mr Robinson, a former director of communications with the DUP, told the Press Association neither he or his wife had any direct involvement with the business or RHI.

He said his father-in-law joined the scheme before he started to work directly with Mr Hamilton.

On Monday, suspended DUP MLA Jonathan Bell used Assembly privilege to claim he was thwarted in his efforts to clamp down on the multi-million pound RHI overspend because two DUP special advisers "have such extensive interests in the poultry industry".

Mr Bell, himself a former DUP economy minister, named Mr Robinson and fellow DUP special adviser Timothy Johnston.

In response, the DUP branded Mr Bell's allegations as "outrageous, untrue and unfounded mud-slinging".

A party statement on Monday said: "Timothy Johnston has no interests whatsoever in the poultry industry and does not benefit or have any family members who applied to or benefit from RHI.

"John Robinson has no personal interest in the poultry industry. His family home farm have chicken houses but are not part of the RHI scheme and never have been recipients or applicants."

In response to specific queries from the Press Association on Tuesday, Mr Robinson said his father-in-law was part of the RHI scheme.

"I have never had any personal financial interest in the RHI scheme," he said.

"At no point have I ever advised anyone to join the scheme or sought to benefit in any way from it.

"I have two brothers who are poultry farmers. They are not part of the scheme nor did they apply to the scheme.

"My father-in-law purchased two 36KW boilers for his poultry business in May 2015, they were installed in July 2015 and he applied to the scheme on August 3 2015.

"This was before I was married in October 2015. At no time did we discuss any aspect of the scheme nor was I aware of his application to the scheme.

"Neither my wife nor I have ever had any role in the business nor have we received any benefit, financial or otherwise, from the business.

"I was appointed as an adviser in the Department for the Economy in June 2016. I was not involved in any aspect of the RHI scheme prior to taking up the post."

Mr Bell and senior DUP figures, including leader Arlene Foster, are at odds about the chain of events that led to cost controls being introduced into the widely over-budget scheme and its ultimate closure.

He was suspended from the party after making serious allegations against Mrs Foster and a number of party advisers in a TV interview before Christmas. His accusations were denied by all those he named.

The Strangford MLA's subsequent claims in an Assembly debate on Monday came at a time when Mr Hamilton is facing growing pressure to publish the names of all the beneficiaries of the RHI scheme.

http://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2017/01/17/news/dup-adviser-says-father-in-law-runs-two-boilers-under-rhi-energy-scheme-890593/?param=ds441rif44T

Pull the other one, FFS.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 18, 2017, 09:05:40 AM
RHI boilers running in Fermanagh shed with the door open


visitors can't see pics , please register or login


THIS is a rare glimpse inside one of the heavily subsidised businesses at the centre of the botched Renewable Heat Incentive scheme.

The scene showing a row of biomass boilers in a shed in Co Fermanagh is thought to be replicated across the north under the flawed scheme which could cost the public £490 million over the next 20 years.

The picture emerged as a DUP special adviser last night confirmed that his father-in-law runs two green energy boilers under the RHI scheme.

John Robinson, who has denied claims by former minister Jonathan Bell over the introduction of cost controls, said the poultry farmer signed up to the subsidies before he married his daughter and he has never advised anyone to join it or sought to benefit in any way from it.

The businessman behind the Co Fermanagh woodchip-drying operation is saving £3,000 a month on a previous oil-fired system but insists he is not abusing the subsidy.

A visit by The Irish News to the industrial yard last week revealed the shed with an open door and at least four working biomass boilers inside.

When contacted, the owner said the boilers heat the shed and dry woodchips for an “industrial process”.

He said they were installed in 2015 and confirmed that the business is in receipt of RHI but would not reveal how much is being paid.

“We have an industrial process. We produce the pellets ourselves to sell so some of the heat we use here is used in the production of that product. The primary heat use is for an industrial process,” he said.

“Would we consider what we’re doing abuse of the scheme? I would say not. It’s a money-saving exercise for us – our oil bill before we put these in would have been almost £3,000 a month so we eliminated that entirely.

“The boilers are a significant investment and if we weren’t in receipt of the subsidy it would be more cost-efficient to be running on oil. I wouldn’t say we’re abusing it, definitely not.

“The people that would be in question are the people who are heating sheds that they weren’t heating before and have no real use for them.

“There are people sitting with warehouses and no sides on them – that would be ineligible use.”

Failures to cap the generous RHI subsidies mean that businesses can effectively earn money by burning fuel.

The geographical spread of claimants was revealed yesterday, with the greatest concentration in mid-Ulster and north Antrim.

Last night Sinn Féin repeated calls for the names of all those receiving money to be published, saying it is necessary to establish whether there are any political conflicts of interest

http://www.irishnews.com/paywall/tsb/irishnews/irishnews/irishnews//news/2017/01/18/news/glimpse-inside-renewable-heat-incentive-business-890572/content.html
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on January 18, 2017, 09:30:45 AM
Senior civil servant on Nolan confirming DUP spads were delaying things to keep the scheme open. Backs up Jonathon Bell looks like Arlene is well and truly fecked. Shame on Unionists if they continue to vote for these c@nts
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 18, 2017, 10:24:35 AM
And the only party denying us a public inquiry is SF.  The question has to be asked why?

The pressure needs to be put on the SoS to initiate the inquiry.

Claire Sugden has shown that she doesn't want to rock the boat either with her unionist voters in the North West or her DUP pals in the Assembly who will try to bring her back into the Executive to keep SF out of Justice.  She has a responsibility in her post to initiate the public inquiry in her role as Justice minister.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Applesisapples on January 18, 2017, 11:11:08 AM
And the only party denying us a public inquiry is SF.  The question has to be asked why?

The pressure needs to be put on the SoS to initiate the inquiry.

Claire Sugden has shown that she doesn't want to rock the boat either with her unionist voters in the North West or her DUP pals in the Assembly who will try to bring her back into the Executive to keep SF out of Justice.  She has a responsibility in her post to initiate the public inquiry in her role as Justice minister.
Actually, I believe that SF are only ruling out a PE under the 2005 Act as it allows Ministers to unduly influence the outcome. They have stated that a Judge Led enquiry that is independant, open and transparent is required, which to mind is more than sufficient. I have been a long standing critic of SF with regard to DUP antics and it is about time they called a halt to the anti Irish behaviour of that party. Stormont is a unionist totem and as such means little to nationalists. If the DUP want it operating then it must be on a basis of equality and generosity, something they don't seem to understand. Unfortunately thinking moderate unionism seems to have opted out, as has those in the nationalist community fed up with the lack of equality.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: johnneycool on January 18, 2017, 11:20:58 AM
And the only party denying us a public inquiry is SF.  The question has to be asked why?

The pressure needs to be put on the SoS to initiate the inquiry.

Claire Sugden has shown that she doesn't want to rock the boat either with her unionist voters in the North West or her DUP pals in the Assembly who will try to bring her back into the Executive to keep SF out of Justice.  She has a responsibility in her post to initiate the public inquiry in her role as Justice minister.
Actually, I believe that SF are only ruling out a PE under the 2005 Act as it allows Ministers to unduly influence the outcome. They have stated that a Judge Led enquiry that is independant, open and transparent is required, which to mind is more than sufficient. I have been a long standing critic of SF with regard to DUP antics and it is about time they called a halt to the anti Irish behaviour of that party. Stormont is a unionist totem and as such means little to nationalists. If the DUP want it operating then it must be on a basis of equality and generosity, something they don't seem to understand. Unfortunately thinking moderate unionism seems to have opted out, as has those in the nationalist community fed up with the lack of equality.

Anyone hear the verbal gymnastics of Poots when questioned about the Irish language act and why the DUP didn't implement it as part of the St Andrews Agreement?

I think that tells you all need to know about the DUP's "tough Negotiations", lies in any other mans language.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Applesisapples on January 18, 2017, 11:35:42 AM
And the only party denying us a public inquiry is SF.  The question has to be asked why?

The pressure needs to be put on the SoS to initiate the inquiry.

Claire Sugden has shown that she doesn't want to rock the boat either with her unionist voters in the North West or her DUP pals in the Assembly who will try to bring her back into the Executive to keep SF out of Justice.  She has a responsibility in her post to initiate the public inquiry in her role as Justice minister.
What would you expect from Boots, SF need to put manners on him!
Actually, I believe that SF are only ruling out a PE under the 2005 Act as it allows Ministers to unduly influence the outcome. They have stated that a Judge Led enquiry that is independant, open and transparent is required, which to mind is more than sufficient. I have been a long standing critic of SF with regard to DUP antics and it is about time they called a halt to the anti Irish behaviour of that party. Stormont is a unionist totem and as such means little to nationalists. If the DUP want it operating then it must be on a basis of equality and generosity, something they don't seem to understand. Unfortunately thinking moderate unionism seems to have opted out, as has those in the nationalist community fed up with the lack of equality.

Anyone hear the verbal gymnastics of Poots when questioned about the Irish language act and why the DUP didn't implement it as part of the St Andrews Agreement?

I think that tells you all need to know about the DUP's "tough Negotiations", lies in any other mans language.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: sensethetone on January 18, 2017, 11:39:34 AM
If an enquiry into RHI started would that mean the media would not be allowed to make public new information that would point blame at anyone?

Would the drip feed dry up and the public would have to wait on the enquiry's findings?

If there is no enquiry and then new revelations could be brought to the publics attention (pre election)as there is no interference with an enquiry.

If the DUP pushed on an enquiry would news regarding RHI would be more low key therefore giving them better footing to get on with the election?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Franko on January 18, 2017, 02:21:27 PM
If an enquiry into RHI started would that mean the media would not be allowed to make public new information that would point blame at anyone?

Would the drip feed dry up and the public would have to wait on the inquiry's findings?

If there is no inquiry and then new revelations could be brought to the publics attention (pre election)as there is no interference with an inquiry.

If the DUP pushed on an inquiry would news regarding RHI would be more low key therefore giving them better footing to get on with the election?

+1

That's why the DUP are so hell bent on an inquiry and why SF are against it.  An inquiry right now is a get out clause for the DUP.  Arlene gets to avoid all questions so as not to 'prejudice the ongoing investigation'.  The media reporting is completely hamstrung and the voters forget the whole sorry tale until after March 2nd when the DUP perform admirably at the polls and retain their veto.  No inquiry until after elections.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on January 18, 2017, 02:27:34 PM
RHI recipients names to be published Wed 25th
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on January 18, 2017, 02:43:34 PM
DE Permanent Sec Andrew McCormick giving evidence to PAC.  Seems to be heaping the blame on Jonathan Bell and his SPAD Timothy Cairns.  Also says civil servants were at fault.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 18, 2017, 03:33:26 PM
Live coverage of the hearing via this link

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-northern-ireland-politics-38663001
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on January 18, 2017, 04:08:59 PM
He's now dropped Foster's SPAD Andrew Crawford in it.  Worth remembering that Ministers are responsible for the actions and behaviour of their SPADs.

To be fair to SF, if they hadn't brought the whole shebang down, they would have had to do it now after this evidence.

Another thing, how f**king stupid are these senior civil servants that they couldn't see that RHI was shambles.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on January 18, 2017, 04:20:29 PM
Bit of Foster arse covering going on now.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: johnneycool on January 18, 2017, 04:28:50 PM
He's now dropped Foster's SPAD Andrew Crawford in it.  Worth remembering that Ministers are responsible for the actions and behaviour of their SPADs.

To be fair to SF, if they hadn't brought the whole shebang down, they would have had to do it now after this evidence.

Another thing, how f**king stupid are these senior civil servants that they couldn't see that RHI was shambles.

"Dr McCormick says civil servants treat ministerial advisers as "minister's agents" and "everything they're saying is aligned to the minister's view"."

Would that not imply the SPAD's can exert pressures on the Civil service if that's the general assertion?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Harold Disgracey on January 18, 2017, 08:40:42 PM
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/rhi-scandal-psni-raided-south-armagh-heated-shed-thinking-it-was-drug-factory-1-7779169
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: BarryBreensBandage on January 18, 2017, 09:57:53 PM
With the current situation, I thought this was an interesting observation made in "Cosa Nostra", a book on the History of the Sicilan Mafia.

The date is 1875 during a debate between the Italian Government and the Sicilian MPs, the authorities were reported to be using the mafia as a tool for local government in Sicily.
The law and order platform collapsed and parliament was divided with pro and anti mafia politicians.

Then, to quote:
"It would have proved easier for both sides to drop the whole subject. So when repressive laws were passed, both Left and Right agreed on what for politicians the world over is the preferred means of smoothing over a controversial issue: they set up a parliamentary commission of inquiry....so much else about Sicilian society was included in the inquiry that the real contours of the mafia issue would almost certainly be blurred."
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: ziggysego on January 18, 2017, 10:33:03 PM
It is not just the wind turbines that are a blight on the countryside but the electrical infrastructure that is required to carry the electricity away.

There is a huge substation being built in the shadow of the Tyrone GAA HQ in Garvaghey and it is linked to Omagh and Tamnamore by pylons carrying cables in both directions.  It begs the question as to where the electricity from all of those turbines was going until this infrastructure is completed.

Again Arlene has added to this problem.  When she was DETI minister she had the opportunity to have a 600MW off shore wind farm built off the north coast.  Due to her approach to her work she missed the deadline for the invitation from the GB Treasury for the wind farm and it was constructed off the GB coast.

They are looking to build a wind farm in Broughderg, near Greencastle. Awful blight on the countryside and the substation not far from it too. Between that and the bloody cyanide processing plant they want to build a stone throw away from the football club.... it really is scary.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: StGallsGAA on January 18, 2017, 11:10:41 PM
Has anyone else noticed how fat DUP MLAs and the party in general are getting?  Apart from twat-face Given the rest are right porkers.   If there was an RHI brought it with that focused on extracting excess fat and using in lard burners the party could make another fortune 'off their own backs'.  😊 Arlene alone could heat most of Fermanagh for months  😃
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on January 19, 2017, 04:02:10 PM
The process for a public inquiry into RHI has been put into action by...wait for it...Mairtin O Muilleoir
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on January 19, 2017, 04:42:01 PM
DUP SPAD Andrew Crawford has been thrown under the bus resigned
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 19, 2017, 05:05:24 PM
The process for a public inquiry into RHI has been put into action by...wait for it...Mairtin O Muilleoir

Such hypocrisy from SF, talk about a U turn even from this morning by Kearney. 
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Denn Forever on January 19, 2017, 05:14:59 PM
It's all politics lads.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Franko on January 19, 2017, 05:17:45 PM
The process for a public inquiry into RHI has been put into action by...wait for it...Mairtin O Muilleoir

Such hypocrisy from SF, talk about a U turn even from this morning by Kearney.

TYP, as someone who seems to find an issue with everything SF do, how do you think they should have played this whole debacle?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: podge on January 19, 2017, 06:36:14 PM
The process for a public inquiry into RHI has been put into action by...wait for it...Mairtin O Muilleoir

Such hypocrisy from SF, talk about a U turn even from this morning by Kearney.

TYP, as someone who seems to find an issue with everything SF do, how do you think they should have played this whole debacle?
Perhaps as part of the executive and with the current finance minister from their party, they should have been asking the right questions at the right time, rather than waiting on Stephen Nolan having to prompt them

Perhaps they should have been clear in calling for a public enquiry a number of weeks ago rather than flip flopping on it for weeks on end

Perhaps they could make it clear why they weren't prepared to support the vote of no confidence pre Christmas but they prepared 2 weeks later to bring the executive down

Perhaps they could have been more honest about some of the other issues going on that have now come to light as they start electioneering
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 19, 2017, 07:45:53 PM
The process for a public inquiry into RHI has been put into action by...wait for it...Mairtin O Muilleoir

Such hypocrisy from SF, talk about a U turn even from this morning by Kearney.

TYP, as someone who seems to find an issue with everything SF do, how do you think they should have played this whole debacle?

1. Since the executive was formed SF should have forced the issue on resolving RHI as they held the finance portfolio.  Not good enough to send memos and as for information.  Sufficient power within the finance portfolio to turn off the tap of the money flowing out to the RHI burners.

2. When the issue became public in December, SF were blinded by their disdain for the opposition, mirroring that of the DUP.  At this stage, a strategy to hold Arlene's feet to the fire should have been put in place to cause her maximum damage and weaken her power within the executive. This would have meant joining the opposition in the vote of no confidence but they couldn't bring themselves to do the right thing.

3. Immediately initiate a full public inquiry instead of making themselves look complete fools by denigrating the inquiry process and trying to make those calling for a public inquiry look less in the eyes of the public.  Calling the inquiry now is pathetic.

4. Not withdrawing from government and making DUP squirm during and after the inquiry and causing maximum political damage assuming that the inquiry doesn't pull them into the criticism.

5. Keep Adams in Louth and away from the North in both presence and statements.

SF without Martin McGuinness in his full health has been drifting around and being pulled in different directions by competing peacocks on TV and radio with no central control.  Statements were being made all over the place that have been contradicted by everything that has happened and ending in the public inquiry.  They could well be heading for their third defeat in a libel case with Kearney's statement this morning.

Bringing in the respect issues are fig leaves for a party without its leader in full command.  The respect was no issue when Martin and Arlene wrote how well they were getting on as partners in government in the Belfast Telegraph on 21-11-2016.  SF can hardly talk about not being respected given their disdain for the opposition parties which was every evident in their attitude and behaviour towards the opposition MLAs in the past week, especially by the health minister when questioned about her portfolio, even DUP ministers would have been hard pushed to be so disrespectful to other MLAs.

Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 19, 2017, 08:51:20 PM
Naomi Long sums up the current positions perfectly 

 "You can almost smell the burning rubber from the u turn"
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 19, 2017, 09:23:02 PM
Naomi Long sums up the current positions perfectly 

 "You can almost smell the burning rubber from the u turn"

+1
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 19, 2017, 11:37:26 PM
Sam McBride ‏@SJAMcBride 1 minute ago

Friday's News Letter front page: Leaked emails show officials told firms cash for ash was ending - four months before it did; then the spike
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: orangeman on January 19, 2017, 11:47:08 PM
I can't believe this is only at 50 pages.


Arlene simply is making a bad situation worse by trying to portray that she's completely innocent.
She'd argue a black crow was a white one.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 19, 2017, 11:58:16 PM
I can't believe this is only at 50 pages.

Arlene simply is making a bad situation worse by trying to portray that she's completely innocent.
She'd argue a black crow was a white one.

It's due to the absence of the Shinnerbots compared to other threads that are reduced to ever growing quotations in circular arguments.

Tonight Ian Paisley was described as stabbing Arlene in the front as he signalled the fightback of the Paisleyite wing of the DUP. His words tonight were in contrast to the grim two of Dodds and Foster speaking in the Great Hall of Stormont earlier tonight. 
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Hereiam on January 20, 2017, 09:16:56 AM
Dodds is a sneaky nasty piece of work in my opinion. You can almost feel the bitterness flow out of when he talks. Hearing him talk this morning about what Ian Junior said about McGuinness he more of less was saying that the Paisleys and SF are great buddies which will damage Ian Jr  come election time.
Why is Ian Jnr staying with this party after what they done to his ole man?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: haranguerer on January 20, 2017, 09:38:50 AM
Naomi Long sums up the current positions perfectly 

 "You can almost smell the burning rubber from the u turn"

+1

Were you not giving out that they weren't on for holding a public inquiry? And now you're giving out that they are??
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Applesisapples on January 20, 2017, 09:45:58 AM
The process for a public inquiry into RHI has been put into action by...wait for it...Mairtin O Muilleoir

Such hypocrisy from SF, talk about a U turn even from this morning by Kearney.
Kearney is a liability. Nice well mining but cannot perform under pressure. I think SF had no choice as the DUP were going to institute one which wouldn't be good.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 20, 2017, 10:20:09 AM
Naomi Long sums up the current positions perfectly 

 "You can almost smell the burning rubber from the u turn"

+1

Were you not giving out that they weren't on for holding a public inquiry? And now you're giving out that they are??

If any other party had taken the actions, u-turns and somersaults that SF have taken over the last 6 weeks imagine what we would be listening to today. 

The decision to have a public inquiry was a race between DUP and their partners SF and it was won by SF who beat the dithering Simon Hamilton who had announced his intention in the morning but not stood in front of a camera to call it.  The pictures of Foster and Dodds in the Great Hall were not to announce that a SPAD had resigned but arranged with the media to call a public inquiry but were upstaged by SF.

Neither SF or DUP gains credit for an inquiry at this stage given their actions and inactions over the last few weeks and over the last year on RHI.  Their actions now are desperate electioneering, no one is fooled.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Keyboard Warrior on January 20, 2017, 10:33:38 AM
DUP SPAD Andrew Crawford has been thrown under the bus resigned

First time last night I heard him referred to as "Dr Andrew Crawford". Anyone know if he is a MD or PhD (if so, what in)? Or is it a bullshit theology doctorate?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Hereiam on January 20, 2017, 11:11:54 AM
I have been trying to find out what he is a Doctor off. I can find nothing on him.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Franko on January 20, 2017, 11:24:23 AM
The process for a public inquiry into RHI has been put into action by...wait for it...Mairtin O Muilleoir

Such hypocrisy from SF, talk about a U turn even from this morning by Kearney.

TYP, as someone who seems to find an issue with everything SF do, how do you think they should have played this whole debacle?

1. Since the executive was formed SF should have forced the issue on resolving RHI as they held the finance portfolio.  Not good enough to send memos and as for information.  Sufficient power within the finance portfolio to turn off the tap of the money flowing out to the RHI burners.

2. When the issue became public in December, SF were blinded by their disdain for the opposition, mirroring that of the DUP.  At this stage, a strategy to hold Arlene's feet to the fire should have been put in place to cause her maximum damage and weaken her power within the executive. This would have meant joining the opposition in the vote of no confidence but they couldn't bring themselves to do the right thing.

3. Immediately initiate a full public inquiry instead of making themselves look complete fools by denigrating the inquiry process and trying to make those calling for a public inquiry look less in the eyes of the public.  Calling the inquiry now is pathetic.

4. Not withdrawing from government and making DUP squirm during and after the inquiry and causing maximum political damage assuming that the inquiry doesn't pull them into the criticism.

5. Keep Adams in Louth and away from the North in both presence and statements.

SF without Martin McGuinness in his full health has been drifting around and being pulled in different directions by competing peacocks on TV and radio with no central control.  Statements were being made all over the place that have been contradicted by everything that has happened and ending in the public inquiry.  They could well be heading for their third defeat in a libel case with Kearney's statement this morning.

Bringing in the respect issues are fig leaves for a party without its leader in full command.  The respect was no issue when Martin and Arlene wrote how well they were getting on as partners in government in the Belfast Telegraph on 21-11-2016.  SF can hardly talk about not being respected given their disdain for the opposition parties which was every evident in their attitude and behaviour towards the opposition MLAs in the past week, especially by the health minister when questioned about her portfolio, even DUP ministers would have been hard pushed to be so disrespectful to other MLAs.

Most of this I agree with, they definitely have not handled this well.  They are only left with any credibility because Arlene and Givan just cant seem to stop kicking the ball into their own net and because there's palpable 'sympathy' for the party due to McGuinness and his illness.  However, firstly, you have the benefit of hindsight when preparing this action plan and secondly, I get the feeling that if SF had followed this to the letter, you and the anythingbuttheshinner-bots would have found something else that they did wrong.  As far as I can see there's very little objectivity involved in some of the criticisms levelled.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on January 20, 2017, 12:41:17 PM
Agree SF have been all over the place on this, but to be fair part of this is caused by their default position in NI being that the "institutions" must be protected at all costs.  That's where they were coming from in Nov and Dec.  They tried to give Snarlene a couple of ways out but she's so up her own arse she shut the door in their faces.  The upshot of that was that they found themselves in the rare position (for them) of trying to find out where their people were going so that they could lead them there.  Looking back now they made a big tactical error in not supporting the motion of no confidence before Xmas.

The move yesterday by O Muilleoir was a clever one because the DUP were dithering over an inquiry and now when SF get abuse on the doorstep they can "We've put a public inquiry in place".
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: sensethetone on January 20, 2017, 01:14:49 PM
I have been trying to find out what he is a Doctor off. I can find nothing on him.

Maybe he's a part time vet/doctor working with orphaned chicks who were abandoned not long after birth, just trying to get a roof over their heads and keeping them warm.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: gallsman on January 20, 2017, 02:24:57 PM
The move yesterday by O Muilleoir was a clever one because the DUP were dithering over an inquiry and now when SF get abuse on the doorstep they can "We've put a public inquiry in place".

That's the problem for me - the inquiry noe smacks of electioneering (and thus, in my book, not worthy of much credit) rather than practicing good government from the outset.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Armamike on January 20, 2017, 02:26:27 PM
Dodds and Foster looked very uncomfortable yesterday, especially Foster.  For someone who says she's happy to get a public enquiry, her body language tells a different story. 

Both the DUP and Sinn Fein have been reacting to events and public opinion, thus all the u-turns and mixed messages.  They've no control around any of this and they're flapping about.  If there's any justice at all the DUP will get hammered at the election for all their half truths, lies, incompetence etc.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 20, 2017, 03:20:08 PM
Sam McBride has been breaking some great stories around RHI, and this one is top drawer.


Leaked emails: RHI firms had inside track that cash for ash was to end

Emails leaked to the News Letter show that some renewable energy firms had detailed inside information about the plan to rein in the ‘cash for ash’ scheme four months before cost controls were implemented.

In correspondence which sheds alarming new light on why there was a massive spike in applications to the Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI) scheme, several firms were sharing technical and financial information weeks before the huge influx of applications.

The emails between individuals in the renewable energy industry cite discussions with Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment (DETI) officials as the source of the information and include the suggestion that clients considering wood pellet boilers should “move asap” to “avoid missing out on the best rates from RHI”.

Until now, it has been believed that the spike came in the period between 8 September 2015 (when the plan to introduce cost controls was publicly announced) and 18 November (when cost controls were implemented).

In that period almost as many applications were received as had been made in the previous almost three years of the scheme. On that basis, the Northern Ireland Audit Office calculated that those applications will cost taxpayers £480 million.

However, the correspondence seen by this newspaper points to the potential for the spike actually beginning much earlier, with some in the industry aware of the looming changes a full ten weeks before they were made public – and 20 weeks before critical flaws were rectified.

A 1 July 2015 email referred to an “update” from DETI officials about “proposed changes to RHI tariffs...with a proposed implementation in early October”. The email said that one DETI official said that tiering and degression – two key cost control measures which had been omitted from the RHI scheme three years earlier and which enabled the ‘burn to earn’ abuse – were proposed to be implemented at that date.

It said that an official had told the individual that “in the last 7-8 months DETI have overspent on their budget and the reason for this is the operating hours of the boilers in the poultry sector,” hence the planned introduction of tier 1 and tier 2 tariffs”.

It went on: “This change will only affect new applications after the change comes into force so if any of your clients are considering installing biomass systems we would advise they should move asap to avoid missing out on the best rates from RHI, especially sub 100kW installations.”

It warned of the looming likelihood of degression “primarily as a method of budget control” and said that “DETI are likely to overspend on their budget for this financial year”. Another email, sent three weeks later on 23 July 2015 and involving other firms, states that the business concerned had a two-hour meeting with DETI officials and sets out 11 detailed bullet points about “imminent changes to [RHI] for biomass”.

The email includes financially significant information, including the pence per kilowatt hour which the department was likely to use for future applications. One point says: “Implementation date mentioned several times was 5th October.”

And, in a striking reference to one of the major beneficiaries of the scheme, the poultry industry, it said: “Grace period not likely – will just leave RHI open to further exploitation (poultry sector).” The email also states: “3-4 [seemingly a word missing, but referring to a period of time] lead time on ordering boilers and kit, if you think you [sic] get more boilers in before October then best to get onto [named individual]”.

And – in an indication of the individual’s confidence that they would be able to obtain future inside information before it was made public – the email added: “Will let you know when DETI make final confirmation, I should know before public announcement”.

Another email that same day sent beneath the one referred to above – relayed another conversation with a DETI official “who told me pretty much of what is written above”.

The information in the emails appears to substantiate and elaborate on concerns which were publicly expressed by the department’s most senior official on Wednesday.

Permanent secretary Andrew McCormick told the Assembly’s Public Accounts Committee (PAC) that there was “an extra level of information” within the renewable energy industry in the summer of 2015 that the payments could be reduced, so people should “get in quick”.

He also said that a DUP Spad had delayed the planned October introduction of cost controls until November. The News Letter asked the Department for the Economy – which succeeded DETI last year – whether the department had been aware of the information and whether any officials had been suspended pending an investigation into their actions.

In a statement last night, the department said: “Any and all allegations regarding officials received by the department are being considered as part of the on-going fact finding investigation which was commissioned by the department into the management of the Renewable Heat Incentive Scheme. “The PAC also continues to conduct its separate investigation into the matter.
The information referred to by the Permanent Secretary at the PAC hearing yesterday is included in both of those investigations.”

Read more at: http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/leaked-emails-rhi-firms-had-inside-track-that-cash-for-ash-was-to-end-1-7782625
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 20, 2017, 05:32:53 PM
The latest from Nigel Dodds 

Information from PAC gives clear vindication of Arlene Foster’s role- Dodds

DUP Deputy Leader Nigel Dodds MP said, “Thanks to Dr Andrew McCormick's evidence to the PAC this week, the picture is now much clearer. And it raises serious questions about why the Opposition parties and sections of the media sought to blame Arlene Foster for the RHI debacle. That campaign of vilification has had no basis in fact.

During the Public Accounts Meeting meeting Dr McCormick made clear there is no evidence of wrongdoing by Arlene Foster, and that the failings in the design and operation of the RHI scheme were the responsibility of the civil service. Arlene Foster has made those points repeatedly and they have now been vindicated.

It is clear that only a public inquiry can establish the full facts behind the RHI debacle. Arlene Foster has been pushing for an inquiry since mid-December. Those efforts were repeatedly frustrated with others preferring to engage in mud slinging and collapsing the institutions to getting to the truth.  Unfortunately the cost of this collapse will be felt in our health service and other vital public services for months and years to come. At last we now have an inquiry set up which is positive news.

It is important that the public hear all the facts in relation to this matter. The focus now also shifts to the officials in the Department. The disclosure that officials in the Department may have tipped off the industry that RHI cost controls were planned in 2015 is of the utmost seriousness and needs rigorous investigation. If true, this will undoubtedly have been a major contributory factor behind the spike in applications.

Furthermore, Dr McCormick has rebutted details of the account given to the media by Jonathan Bell. This comes on top of the rebuttals issued by the Department and given to the Assembly last month. We look forward to a detailed BBC 'fact check' on the Bell allegations that it reported so prominently.

It is timely, to further point out that Arlene Foster stands over what she told the Assembly last month when she then said, ‘The former Enterprise Minister claims that he made a decision to amend the RHI scheme but was overruled by special advisers. Since last week, I have specifically investigated this claim. The evidence is clear. The only decision taken by the Minister was in early September to amend the scheme in November. The Minister was not subsequently overruled by special advisers, and I am clear that whatever representations may have been made by anyone on this issue, it was not being done with the authority of the party.’

The facts are there and it shows that Arlene Foster has been honest and acted with great integrity. The public want the truth rather than cheap political point scoring and media frenzy based on a distortion of the facts. I look forward to the truth being displayed fully in the public inquiry.”

http://www.mydup.com/news/article/information-from-pac-gives-clear-vindication-of-arlene-fosters-role-dodds
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AhNowRef on January 20, 2017, 05:47:28 PM
Yeah its incredible ...   Most "normal" thinking people would look at McCormacks PAC evidence and put Snarlene even more in the doc ... not these muppets .. Sticking their head in the sand and just repeating "black is white .. black is white" seems to be their only recourse  .. and unfortunately thats all they need to do to maintain their bigoted vote ....

How depressing !!
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: randomusername on January 20, 2017, 06:44:44 PM
Yeah its incredible ...   Most "normal" thinking people would look at McCormacks PAC evidence and put Snarlene even more in the doc ... not these muppets .. Sticking their head in the sand and just repeating "black is white .. black is white" seems to be their only recourse  .. and unfortunately thats all they need to do to maintain their bigoted vote ....

How depressing !!

In public they're not going to do anything other than defend her.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: never kickt a ball on January 20, 2017, 09:06:10 PM
Some boasting about what the DUP have done in their 2016 party election broadcast. Obviously when anything goes pear shaped that's the civil servants fault of course.



https://youtu.be/uDxuD7k1HYg
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: BarryBreensBandage on January 21, 2017, 12:07:30 AM
Do responses and reactions from Arlene and the DUP in this news report from 2011 sound familiar?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-15873655?SThisFB



Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Hereiam on January 21, 2017, 12:12:36 AM
They are coming out of the wood work now. Jim Wells has 4 relations including his brother on this scheme.....guess what he didn't know any of them were on it.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 21, 2017, 12:29:40 AM
Jim Wells statement


visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: randomusername on January 21, 2017, 12:40:21 AM
They are coming out of the wood work now. Jim Wells has 4 relations including his brother on this scheme.....guess what he didn't know any of them were on it.

Only found out today that all four were in on it.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: orangeman on January 21, 2017, 12:52:50 AM
They are coming out of the wood work now. Jim Wells has 4 relations including his brother on this scheme.....guess what he didn't know any of them were on it.

Only found out today that all four were in on it.

He wouldn't have been thinking that way - he'd have been too busy serving his constituents.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: yellowcard on January 21, 2017, 01:39:06 AM
The Jim Wells revelations are so absurd, just when you think it can't get any worse for the DUP it just does again. This whole drip drip of information has been a PR disaster for them. I can only imagine the divisions this will have caused within the party. Foster has been a dead woman walking from the moment she dug her heels in and went on the offensive with her false bravado and misplaced brazenness. There could be a lot of political corpses after this election and surely the UUP have an open goal on this occasion.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: 5 Sams on January 21, 2017, 02:25:14 AM
The Jim Wells revelations are so absurd, just when you think it can't get any worse for the DUP it just does again. This whole drip drip of information has been a PR disaster for them. I can only imagine the divisions this will have caused within the party. Foster has been a dead woman walking from the moment she dug her heels in and went on the offensive with her false bravado and misplaced brazenness. There could be a lot of political corpses after this election and surely the UUP have an open goal on this occasion.

Exactly but they need a Messi and all they have are a bunch of 3rd division players just like the SDLP.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: sensethetone on January 21, 2017, 07:25:18 AM
I'm sure the bible has been well read to get quote that will get him out of this mess.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on January 21, 2017, 08:17:39 AM
Heard a rumour the DUP are going to rename the party "Profit Before People" heading into this election.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: StGallsGAA on January 21, 2017, 08:55:43 AM
The Jim Wells revelations are so absurd, just when you think it can't get any worse for the DUP it just does again. This whole drip drip of information has been a PR disaster for them. I can only imagine the divisions this will have caused within the party. Foster has been a dead woman walking from the moment she dug her heels in and went on the offensive with her false bravado and misplaced brazenness. There could be a lot of political corpses after this election and surely the UUP have an open goal on this occasion.

Exactly but they need a Messi and all they have are a bunch of 3rd division players just like the SDLP.

Which is literally true with the likes of Div 3 Justin McNulty   ;D
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 21, 2017, 10:12:48 AM
Heard a rumour the DUP are going to rename the party "Profit Before People" heading into this election.

There's a woman from Beragh running as an Independent and she is using the slogan People Before Pellets
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 21, 2017, 10:23:00 AM
The Jim Wells revelations are so absurd, just when you think it can't get any worse for the DUP it just does again. This whole drip drip of information has been a PR disaster for them. I can only imagine the divisions this will have caused within the party. Foster has been a dead woman walking from the moment she dug her heels in and went on the offensive with her false bravado and misplaced brazenness. There could be a lot of political corpses after this election and surely the UUP have an open goal on this occasion.

Exactly but they need a Messi and all they have are a bunch of 3rd division players just like the SDLP.

Can't be many politicians in Division 1.  Care to name those you would consider for the top division?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 21, 2017, 10:34:18 AM
Sam McBride sure has been coming up with some excellent articles on the RHI fiasco.

Fantastic journalism...

RHI scandal: 60% of boilers in areas not previously heated

More than 60% of applications to the non-domestic RHI scheme were for situations where there had never before been a requirement for heat, the News Letter can reveal.

In evidence which has led to fresh concerns about how many of the ‘cash for ash’ boilers were primarily or solely installed to milk the subsidy, a Stormont minister has confirmed that of 2,128 applications some 1,305 involved “new heat”.

The revelation raises fundamental questions about the environmental credentials of a scheme which was intended to incentivise businesses to replace existing oil or gas boilers with more environmental alternatives but which has led to a proliferations of boilers burning where previously there was no heat source at all.

And the figures show that of the 1,305 applications where there was no history of heat just 10 (0.7%) have been rejected. A further 125 remain undetermined, almost a year after the scheme was closed.

Last night the Ulster Unionist MLA who uncovered the new information said he was “shocked” at what he had discovered and questioned whether it indicated that an even higher proportion of boilers than previously thought are predominantly there to make money.

Meanwhile, DUP deputy leader Nigel Dodds has said that leaked emails revealed yesterday by News Letter raise issues “of the utmost seriousness” and need “rigorous investigation”. The emails show that some energy firms had detailed inside information about the plan to rein in the scheme four months before cost controls were implemented – with the source of the information allegedly being departmental officials.

Not all of the ‘new heat’ RHI applications will involve abuse of the scheme, nor even situations where boilers have installed for the predominant purpose of making money. It is known that a very significant proportion of the applications were for poultry sheds, many of which may have been new buildings.

And other businesses installing biomass boilers could have chosen to do so at the same time as building a new office or factory which necessarily would not have had a history of being heated because it did not previously exist. Nevertheless, the scale of the applications for ‘new heat’ have raised fresh concerns not only about the potential for waste and abuse in the scheme but about the level of monitoring of the scheme, given that no one appears to have raised any concerns about so many boilers being installed in areas which had no history of heating.

The scheme was only ultimately closed down when it became clear that it was going to blow apart the department’s budget if it was allowed to stay open.

Responding to an Assembly question from UUP MLA Harold McKee, Economy Minister Simon Hamilton said: “Each application is assessed against the Regulations, which allow support under the scheme for a new heat use.”

Mr McKee told the News Letter that it was “beyond belief that such a weakness existed in the roll-out of this alleged environmental scheme”. The South Down MLA said: “We have repeatedly been told that the policy behind the RHI scheme was to wean businesses away from burning fossil fuels, such as oil and gas, and onto more sustainable sources of heat like biomass. “In fact, when Arlene Foster first introduced the regulations to the botched scheme in 2012 she specifically said it was to provide businesses with ongoing financial support when switching to renewable heating.

This is something that was even reiterated by Simon Hamilton only this week. “We now know that was not the case. The revelation that so many businesses now have biomass boilers in place, when previously they had no need for any heat at all, has revealed another fundamental flaw with the overall scheme.”

Raising fresh questions about the RHI debacle, Mr McKee added: “Is it a case that there are an even larger than envisaged number of businesses across Northern Ireland who have burners in place when they don’t actually need them? “Is it a case that some businesses were encouraged to install these burners solely to make money, at the expense of the public purse, rather than for any environmental benefits?”


http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/rhi-scandal-60-of-boilers-in-areas-not-previously-heated-1-7784295
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 21, 2017, 10:38:15 AM
And another from Sam.....

Bell sends legal letters to DUP’s Foster and Stalford

Former DUP minister Jonathan Bell has begun the process of taking legal action against two fellow DUP MLAs, his lawyer has confirmed.

The Strangford MLA was suspended from the DUP a month ago after he spoke out in a televised interview with Stephen Nolan where he made allegations about the party and the closure of the RHI scheme.

In an televised interview broadcast immediately after Mr Bell’s comments, DUP leader Arlene Foster made a series of allegations about her party colleague.

There was speculation at the time that Mr Bell may be considering legal action after he directed journalistic questions to the libel lawyer Paul Tweed.

Now it has been confirmed that Mr Bell has taken the first step towards launching a legal action – although it does not appear that he has as yet issued a writ. When asked about the situation, Mr Tweed said that he was not in a position to make any comment at this stage other than to “confirm that it is correct that Arlene Foster and Christopher Stalford have been put on notice in relation to comments made regarding my client”.

A DUP spokesman confirmed that Mrs Foster and Mr Stalford and received the legal letters and would be “responding through their own legal representatives”.

It is understood that Mr Stalford, the DUP MLA for South Belfast, is facing the legal threat over comments which he made in an interview with RTE subsequent to the interviews which Mr Bell and Mrs Foster gave to the BBC and which were broadcast on 15 December.

Meanwhile, Mr Bell is understood to be on the list of MLAs who have asked to speak in Monday’s Assembly debate on emergency legislation to rein in RHI costs.

Last week Mr Bell used the cloak of Assembly privilege – meaning that he cannot be sued for what he says in the chamber – to make allegations about DUP spads, allegations which they firmly rejected.

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/bell-sends-legal-letters-to-dup-s-foster-and-stalford-1-7784278
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Aaron Boone on January 21, 2017, 10:47:00 AM
Bookies have Arlene 1/2 to be First Minister after the election. Unfortunately that's printing money for me, can't see a Brexit-Trump shock in NI.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: StGallsGAA on January 21, 2017, 10:57:21 AM
Bookies have Arlene 1/2 to be First Minister after the election. Unfortunately that's printing money for me, can't see a Brexit-Trump shock in NI.

I wouldn't go putting the house on it.  She might not even be DUP leader
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: yellowcard on January 21, 2017, 02:51:51 PM
Bookies have Arlene 1/2 to be First Minister after the election. Unfortunately that's printing money for me, can't see a Brexit-Trump shock in NI.

I'd keep my money in my pocket if I were you, that's like burning money!!
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: imtommygunn on January 21, 2017, 03:30:41 PM
Her biggest opposition would be from within i would have thought. I don't think the public will do much about it, her opposition haven't and she clearly is going nowhere herself.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on January 21, 2017, 03:50:31 PM
Sam McBride promising more revelations next week
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: armaghniac on January 21, 2017, 03:53:32 PM
Sam McBride promising more revelations next week

The Newsletter has definitely stepped up in recent times.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on January 21, 2017, 03:57:02 PM
Sam McBride promising more revelations next week

The Newsletter has definitely stepped up in recent times.

I've had dealings with Sam twice in the last couple of years. A very nice guy and a proper journalist who clearly knows a big story when he sees it.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 21, 2017, 06:21:36 PM
Michael Doran is another person who most definitely knew about the scam, but said nothing as he helped
25% of all applicants get on board the #RHI gravy train......

He is the head of a Renewable Energy charity called Action Renewables, and he appeared on the Spotlight programme
where he outlined the flaws in the scheme......

In today's Irish News he said it would be "ethically improper" to inform the Government of flaws in the scheme. WTF?

When asked by the Irish News why he or anyone else in the charity relayed concerns about the operation of the scheme,
he said "That's not what we were employed to do. If you're employed on behalf of a client to make an application it would
then be ethically improper to then undermine that application by trying to have it withdrawn"

"The fact that the Government created the scheme that some people now think is over incentivised is not our responsibility"

Between May 2014 and January 2016 his organisation advised 550 applicants, and made close to £250,000 in the process.

Over the 20 years of the scheme, his applicants stand to account for £300 million !!!!

Described as a charity, Action Renewables was founded in 2003 in partnership with DETI who funded it for 4 years.....

This whole involvement of Action Renewables not only stinks of corruption, but as a registered charity, surely they
are liable if any  corruption is proven in the application process?

In the summer of 2013 they held a conference on the RHI scheme where people paid £75 each to hear how they
could generate heat and get paid for it.......

http://www.originalheating.com/2013/06/

Lets hope we haven't heard the last of Michael Doran and Action Renewables, and when the public inquiry is held,
I hope to see him sitting in the chair answering some tough questions......

http://www.irishnews.com/paywall/tsb/irishnews/irishnews/irishnews//news/2017/01/21/news/renewable-energy-charity-paid-to-process-a-quarter-of-all-rhi-applications-895678/content.html
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 21, 2017, 08:39:49 PM
Michael Doran from Action Renewables has also set up an organisation representing 100 renewable heating businesses.

Would these be businesses that he helped get on board the RHI scheme?

RHI scandal: Cost cutting plan would be 'catastrophic' for businesses

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38624749
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: StGallsGAA on January 22, 2017, 10:11:29 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38700375

BBC article already referring to Arlene as "former first minister". Hmmmm...
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: LeoMc on January 22, 2017, 10:22:49 AM
I have been trying to find out what he is a Doctor off. I can find nothing on him.

Maybe he's a part time vet/doctor working with orphaned chicks who were abandoned not long after birth, just trying to get a roof over their heads and keeping them warm.

If only.  He's merely a Dr of free Presbyterian ultra right wing bigotry I seems.  Is he stepping down from DUP so his wider family can continue  milk millions is the q that needs to be asked.......
He s stepping down to help the party in the upcoming election. It is merely coincidence that election work is one of the clauses which allow him to pick up 6 months salary (£45000) when resigning.
Same loophole Emma Little used.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: gallsman on January 22, 2017, 10:25:27 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38700375

BBC article already referring to Arlene as "former first minister". Hmmmm...

What exactly would you describe her as?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: StGallsGAA on January 22, 2017, 05:42:37 PM
A fat bigoted swamp donkey?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: GJL on January 22, 2017, 07:48:55 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38700375

BBC article already referring to Arlene as "former first minister". Hmmmm...

What exactly would you describe her as?

A C unt.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: gallsman on January 22, 2017, 08:34:38 PM
They'd both be true in my view, but the implication was that calling her the "former first minister" was some sort of hint that there was a revelation to be made. Of course she's the former first minister ffs.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: StGallsGAA on January 22, 2017, 09:32:59 PM
They'd both be true in my view, but the implication was that calling her the "former first minister" was some sort of hint that there was a revelation to be made. Of course she's the former first minister ffs.

A portent of Sam McBride's revelations if ever there was one......
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: haranguerer on January 23, 2017, 08:30:32 AM
Sam McBride promising more revelations next week

The Newsletter has definitely stepped up in recent times.

I've had dealings with Sam twice in the last couple of years. A very nice guy and a proper journalist who clearly knows a big story when he sees it.

He's certainly carry out good journalism, but re the bit in bold - as I've said before, all this information was in print (incl empty sheds being heated etc) long before anyone ran with it, so maybe not so much....

It took spotlight to do a programme on it before anyone paid attention
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 23, 2017, 10:22:05 AM
DUP reveal new Ministerial Cars following the election.....

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: johnneycool on January 23, 2017, 11:29:53 AM
Simon Hamilton is supposed to be releasing the names of all the participants of the RHI scheme later this week. I wonder did Jim get his speak in early before being found out closer to the time.

I hope they also publish the dates of application and whether it was "new heat" or not.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: imtommygunn on January 23, 2017, 11:37:25 AM
I wouldn't hold my breath. There's been 2 big announcements scheduled for this year with how the dup are going to clear up this mess and nothing yet.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: ziggysego on January 23, 2017, 12:08:12 PM
RHI scandal: DUP's Simon Hamilton fails to turn up for committee session on curbing costs of scheme.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/rhi-scandal-dups-simon-hamilton-fails-to-turn-up-for-committee-session-on-curbing-costs-of-scheme-35390004.html (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/rhi-scandal-dups-simon-hamilton-fails-to-turn-up-for-committee-session-on-curbing-costs-of-scheme-35390004.html)
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AhNowRef on January 23, 2017, 12:42:19 PM
Yeah its incredible ...   Most "normal" thinking people would look at McCormacks PAC evidence and put Snarlene even more in the doc ... not these muppets .. Sticking their head in the sand and just repeating "black is white .. black is white" seems to be their only recourse  .. and unfortunately thats all they need to do to maintain their bigoted vote ....

How depressing !!

In public they're not going to do anything other than defend her.

Oh I kinow .. the depressing bit is that no matter what happens .. (e.g. if you pinned a DUP badge on a dead monkey) their core voters would still vote for them  ::)
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Dire Ear on January 23, 2017, 12:56:31 PM
RHI scandal: DUP's Simon Hamilton fails to turn up for committee session on curbing costs of scheme.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/rhi-scandal-dups-simon-hamilton-fails-to-turn-up-for-committee-session-on-curbing-costs-of-scheme-35390004.html (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/rhi-scandal-dups-simon-hamilton-fails-to-turn-up-for-committee-session-on-curbing-costs-of-scheme-35390004.html)

Any reason why.......or do they not even bother anymore ??
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 23, 2017, 01:19:33 PM
In Saturdays Irish News article on Michael Doran and his charity Action Renewables, he had this to say:

"We had no consultation with the Department. We weren't involved. We have no links with Stormont whatsoever"

Well, Michael Doran is telling us a big lie because he was involved in both stages of the consultation regarding RHI,
with DETI and with Stormont.

Read what Patsy McGlone had to say about their contribution to the committee in this link about the introduction of RHI

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/ni/?id=2012-10-22.3.16


And in this link, read what they had to say about RHI in the 2nd consultation stage

https://www.economy-ni.gov.uk/sites/default/files/publications/deti/action-renewables-7.pdf


So, as you can see, Michael Doran is either lying or he is using alternative facts......

In the summer of 2013 his charity Action Renewables held a £75 per person conference on the RHI scheme.

One boiler manufacturer had this to say about the event:

"this highly-anticipated event, will provide an in-depth look at the RHI and educate businesses and organisations 
across the public and private sector on how they can generate heat and get paid for it! "

http://www.originalheating.com/2013/06/

Michael Doran and his charity Action Renewables are also closely linked to Tughans, the group of solicitors who are caught
up in the Nama scandal. I reckon that we will be hearing from them if any legal action is brought about by the group of
people he claims to represent over any changes to their financial returns on the pellet burners they installed.

Every day as more info drip feeds into the public domain, we get to see a scam that a golden circle of people were up to their
eyes in, and are creaming in thousands per hour at our expense.

Lets hope a public inquiry gets to the bottom of this scam and we see people not only named and shamed, but in court
charged and sentenced with fraud.

 

Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AhNowRef on January 23, 2017, 02:11:06 PM
RHI scandal: DUP's Simon Hamilton fails to turn up for committee session on curbing costs of scheme.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/rhi-scandal-dups-simon-hamilton-fails-to-turn-up-for-committee-session-on-curbing-costs-of-scheme-35390004.html (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/rhi-scandal-dups-simon-hamilton-fails-to-turn-up-for-committee-session-on-curbing-costs-of-scheme-35390004.html)

Any reason why.......or do they not even bother anymore ??

Trimming his beard apparently  ::)
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 23, 2017, 03:39:31 PM
Tyrone company runs 12 RHI boilers to dry wood

A Co Tyrone business was set up with 12 biomass boilers in the same building under the Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI) for the purpose of drying woodchippings, some of which supplies other boilers, the Ulster Herald can reveal.
 
Eco Biomass (NI) Ltd was established by Dungannon businessman Tom Spence on September 1, 2015 at the start of the three month spike in applications to the non-domestic RHI scheme.
 
Some 984 new applications were received during this contentious period, just after the cut to the subsidy was announced and before it was implemented, significantly increasing the overall cost of the scheme to an estimated £490m.
 
Eco Biomass Ltd, which Mr Spence describes as a legitimate wood drying business, runs the 12 boilers from a warehouse at Kildress, just off the main Omagh to Cookstown road.
 
Sourced from local forests, the local company chips round logs into a series of large metal containers, where it is dried by one dozen biomass boilers, also encased in metal containers.
 
The product is then sold on for other uses. There is no suggestion of any illegality.

Speaking to the Ulster Herald on Wednesday, Mr Spence said, “We’re a legitimate business providing to power stations and other farmers and other local people, but the bulk of it is not going to other burners.”
 
He declined to elaborate on the term ‘power stations’.
 
From Bush, just outside Dungannon, the 65-year-old businessman is involved in a series of companies across the construction and recycling sector.
 
Mr Spence is also among the RHI recipients who have formed a group to represent their interests against the backdrop of plans to name all recipients and curb the payments.

 “I am signed up to an organisation which will be challenging most things to do with it,” he said.
Mr Spence said he was concerned at being “criminalised” in light of what he described as “scaremongering” by the media in its the coverage of the RHI scandal.
 
“We simply availed of the opportunity that was there and presented to us. There is nothing illegal about that, there’s certainly nothing to be demonised or criminalised about.”

http://ulsterherald.com/2017/01/20/tyrone-company-runs-12-rhi-boilers-dry-wood/

Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: StGallsGAA on January 23, 2017, 03:59:37 PM
Quote
Speaking to the Ulster Herald on Wednesday, Mr Spence said, “We’re a legitimate business providing to power stations and other farmers and other local people, but the bulk of it is not going to other burners.”
[/b]

Possibly 'cos it take all he can produce to feed his his own 12 burners!!  8)


Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AhNowRef on January 23, 2017, 04:08:21 PM
I wonder how many of these claimants, who have been heating empty sheds are now running around (after more advice from dubious corners) trying to find things to heat ... they've had plenty of time !!!

Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Dire Ear on January 23, 2017, 04:25:58 PM
That definitely looks like the case in the 12 boiler one , going by the lack of activity around that shed !
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: keepherlit on January 23, 2017, 04:28:50 PM
Ryan McAleer ‏@RyanMcAleerUH  6h6 hours ago
More
 Inside today's Tyrone Herald: Kildress wood drying company with 12 biomass boilers was only granted planning approval on Tuesday. #RHI
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 23, 2017, 04:31:12 PM
Live debate on RHI in Stormont now....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-northern-ireland-politics-38717196
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: passedit on January 23, 2017, 07:37:22 PM
Sam McBride Verified account
‏@SJAMcBride

Jim Allister says Stephen Brimstone had a new biomass boiler in new house but took it out & installed new non-domestic one to "rip off" RHI
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: hardstation on January 23, 2017, 08:06:27 PM
I assume "Fire & Brimstone" has been done?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: sensethetone on January 23, 2017, 09:43:01 PM
Rhi is getting more pathetic as it goes on. Ufu now in the middle of it too.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 23, 2017, 10:01:11 PM
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Orior on January 23, 2017, 10:33:10 PM
I assume "Fire & Brimstone" has been done?

And so has his sister, Helen Brimstone.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 24, 2017, 03:11:52 PM
Interim injunction on publication of RHI boiler names



The judge in the RHI case has granted an interim injunction preventing the Economy Department from publishing the names of 300 boiler owners who are in the Renewable Heat Association of Northern Ireland.

It will mean the department cannot release the names of RHI boiler owners who are also in the RH Association by 5pm on Tuesday.

The list was due to be published by the minister on Wednesday.

In meantime the judge in has reserved judgement in application for leave for judicial review.

A judgement is expected next week.

http://www.itv.com/news/utv/update/2017-01-24/interim-injunction-on-publication-of-rhi-boiler-names/
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 24, 2017, 04:20:14 PM
Finance Minister Mairtin O Muilleoir outlines Renewable Heating Incentive inquiry terms

Finance Minister Mairtin O Muilleoir has outlined the details of the Renewable Heating Incentive inquiry which he has pledged will be "wholly independent to get to the truth".

The Sinn Fein MLA revealed the inquiry will be chaired by retired judge Sir Patrick Coghlin and the terms of reference to which he will work.

The finance department said the work will get under way on February 1 and will report as "expeditiously as possible".

Mr O Muilleoir said: “I now have in place an independent inquiry chair, distinguished retired Lord Justice of Appeal, Sir Patrick Coghlin, who was nominated to chair the inquiry by the Lord Chief Justice. I am very pleased Sir Patrick has agreed to lead the inquiry and I know that he will be unflinching in his pursuit of the truth and scrupulous in his analysis of the evidence.

“The independent investigation will have the powers to compel witnesses and evidence and I pledge that as minister I will ensure the inquiry is free of ministerial control or interference. I call on all parties to make a similar pledge in relation to any future finance minister.

 “There is an urgent need to get to the facts of the RHI scheme, to identify negligence, incompetence, alleged corruption and abuse, and to hold those responsible to account.

“I am aware that the RHI issue goes beyond financial matters to questions of governance and probity. By getting to the truth of the RHI scandal, this inquiry team, led by the distinguished Sir Patrick Coghlin will, I believe, address those wider issues, and, therefore, go some way to rebuilding the shattered public confidence in the institutions.”

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/finance-minister-mairtin-o-muilleoir-outlines-renewable-heating-incentive-inquiry-terms-35394208.html
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: tyroneman on January 24, 2017, 09:31:12 PM
The arrogance, avarice and ignorance on display by the DUP and their cronies over RHI is staggering. I have little time for most parties and politicians in the North but they really seem to be on a colossal mission to treat the tax paying public like idiots.

Perhaps if they tried to show a little repentance (strange how so many supposedly  upstanding Christian soldiers seem unable to actually act humbly, ask for forgiveness or even show the slightest signs of remorse) rather than engage in lowest common denominator mud slinging or distributing curry my yoghurt memes there might be a little more understanding from the general, ripped off, public.

As for claiming they knew nothing of their sister in laws husband (seriously)...or their brother in law (apparantly not considered family members) or indeed the father in law ..fcuk me....

We have nothing to learn about 'Alternative facts' round these parts...

Don't know why I'm even surprised these days.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: imtommygunn on January 24, 2017, 09:44:11 PM
I would fully agree tm. All holier than thou and would steal the eye out of your head. So arrogant and treat people with such contempt.

To be honest i almost find mom's pushes for the public investigation a bit disingenuous. Why didn't he push for it in the first place? It looks purely like electioneering and is hard to take seriously.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Hereiam on January 24, 2017, 10:34:01 PM
The main problem is that the DUP have the backin of the tories and they fear no repercussions
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: omagh_gael on January 24, 2017, 11:54:09 PM
Copied from Facebook...

So tonight I decided to do some research myself into the R.H.I scheme and have been blown away with what I have discovered in less than two hours by simply using my phone and google. I believe I have discovered a link between Arlene Foster and the R.H.I scheme as far back as June 2008, and to be precise the 9th of June 2008 - the very day she took up her roll as Minister of Enterprise, Trade & Investment and on the same day a Mr Stephen Kingon was appointed director of Balcas Timber Limited, the company which would go on to become the largest wood pellet fuel manufacturer in Great Britain and Ireland, and has pioneered biomass renewable energy in the British Isles with an annual turnover of  circa £100 Million.

Coincidence??? I'll let you decide for yourself, here is the timeline of events.

1st of January 2005  -
DUP appoint Mr Stephen Kingon as chairperson of Invest N.I (3 year post)

9th of June 2008 -
Arlene Foster is appointed as Minister of Enterprise, Trade & Investment - Mr Stephen Kingon is also appointed chairman of Balcas Timber Limited on the same day.

29 December 2008 -
Enterprise Minister Arlene Foster has announced the re-appointment of Invest N.I Chairman, Stephen Kingon.

2nd September 2009 -
It is discovered that Invest N.I have awarded
Balcas Timber Limited a grant of £113,000 and the chairman of Invest N.I & Balcas Timber Limited is the same person Mr Stephen Kingon, all this is overseen by the Enterprise, trade and investment department ministered by Arlene Forster, and what does he get for awarding his own company a huge grant from Invest N.I. well one would think the sack, no he stays on until the start on January 2011.

1st of January 2011 -
Mr Stephen kingdon completes 6 years in his post 3 of those years he was also chairperson of Balcas Timber Limited.

November 2012 -
Enterprise Minister introduces the R.H.I which leads to Balcas Timber Limited to become the largest wood pellet fuel manufacturer in Great Britain and Ireland, and earn Mr Stephen Kingon and his company over a £100 million annually and also cost the N.I taxpayer at least over £600 million  which will be paid to god knows how many friends & family connected to the DUP.

#fostershouldbejailedforfraud

***share this post & help get rid of her for good***
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: imtommygunn on January 25, 2017, 11:35:01 AM
http://www.irishnews.com/news/2017/01/25/news/mystery-surrounds-ulster-scots-community-hall-grant-application-903735/ (http://www.irishnews.com/news/2017/01/25/news/mystery-surrounds-ulster-scots-community-hall-grant-application-903735/)
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: johnneycool on January 25, 2017, 11:52:48 AM
Sam McBride Verified account
‏@SJAMcBride

Jim Allister says Stephen Brimstone had a new biomass boiler in new house but took it out & installed new non-domestic one to "rip off" RHI

His brother Aaron Brimstone has one at his carting business in Kesh;

http://www.enerpower.ie/case_studies/show/Wood-Pellet-Boiler-Installed-at-Lakeland-Carting-Co-Fermanagh/48

Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: johnneycool on January 25, 2017, 11:59:15 AM
As well as the following;

Meteor Electrical;

http://www.enerpower.ie/case_studies/show/Meteor-Electrical-installs-three-Gilles-Biomass-Boilers-under-RHI-Scheme-with-Enerpower/42

Wilsons chickens in Antrim;

http://www.enerpower.ie/case_studies/show/GILLES-WOOD-PELLET-BOILER-INSTALLED-AT-WILSONS-CHICKENS-CO-ANTRIM/49


Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Take Your Points on January 25, 2017, 12:14:22 PM
These are organisations being upfront about their installations but no evidence they are availing of the RHI.

The Swedes burn biomass:

http://www.enerpower.ie/case_studies/show/Biomass-Boiler-Installation-IKEA-Belfast/7 (http://www.enerpower.ie/case_studies/show/Biomass-Boiler-Installation-IKEA-Belfast/7)

Education:

http://www.enerpower.ie/case_studies/show/Southwest-college-pellet-boiler-instalation/19 (http://www.enerpower.ie/case_studies/show/Southwest-college-pellet-boiler-instalation/19)
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: joebloggs on January 25, 2017, 12:58:53 PM
Copied from Facebook...

So tonight I decided to do some research myself into the R.H.I scheme and have been blown away with what I have discovered in less than two hours by simply using my phone and google. I believe I have discovered a link between Arlene Foster and the R.H.I scheme as far back as June 2008, and to be precise the 9th of June 2008 - the very day she took up her roll as Minister of Enterprise, Trade & Investment and on the same day a Mr Stephen Kingon was appointed director of Balcas Timber Limited, the company which would go on to become the largest wood pellet fuel manufacturer in Great Britain and Ireland, and has pioneered biomass renewable energy in the British Isles with an annual turnover of  circa £100 Million.

Coincidence??? I'll let you decide for yourself, here is the timeline of events.

1st of January 2005  -
DUP appoint Mr Stephen Kingon as chairperson of Invest N.I (3 year post)

9th of June 2008 -
Arlene Foster is appointed as Minister of Enterprise, Trade & Investment - Mr Stephen Kingon is also appointed chairman of Balcas Timber Limited on the same day.

29 December 2008 -
Enterprise Minister Arlene Foster has announced the re-appointment of Invest N.I Chairman, Stephen Kingon.

2nd September 2009 -
It is discovered that Invest N.I have awarded
Balcas Timber Limited a grant of £113,000 and the chairman of Invest N.I & Balcas Timber Limited is the same person Mr Stephen Kingon, all this is overseen by the Enterprise, trade and investment department ministered by Arlene Forster, and what does he get for awarding his own company a huge grant from Invest N.I. well one would think the sack, no he stays on until the start on January 2011.

1st of January 2011 -
Mr Stephen kingdon completes 6 years in his post 3 of those years he was also chairperson of Balcas Timber Limited.

November 2012 -
Enterprise Minister introduces the R.H.I which leads to Balcas Timber Limited to become the largest wood pellet fuel manufacturer in Great Britain and Ireland, and earn Mr Stephen Kingon and his company over a £100 million annually and also cost the N.I taxpayer at least over £600 million  which will be paid to god knows how many friends & family connected to the DUP.

#fostershouldbejailedforfraud

***share this post & help get rid of her for good***

http://fermanaghherald.com/2014/10/committed-to-fermanagh-says-business-person-of-the-year/

Hard to not make money when you get paid to burn the very product you produce
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: passedit on January 25, 2017, 03:06:18 PM
As my old Granny used to say their true loyalty is to the half-crown

http://www.irishnews.com/opinion/columnists/2017/01/25/news/brian-feeney-we-need-to-know-if-dup-was-paid-to-back-brexit-901980/?param=ds441rif44T (http://www.irishnews.com/opinion/columnists/2017/01/25/news/brian-feeney-we-need-to-know-if-dup-was-paid-to-back-brexit-901980/?param=ds441rif44T)

Quote

Brian Feeney
25 January, 2017 01:00
Topics

Brian Feeney: We need to know if DUP was paid to back Brexit

In the list of grievances and accusations Sinn Féin has levelled at the DUP like the Red Sky contracts affair, Nama, the Maze project and of course RHI, curiously the DUP’s Brexit campaign is not included.

In case you’ve forgotten, business, commerce and agriculture in the north were pretty unanimously opposed to leaving the EU. Arlene Foster and the DUP knew this fact perfectly well but nevertheless persisted in supporting a Leave vote for what they believed to be political advantage. In that campaign and in the months that followed until the present Foster and her party have consistently failed to represent the opinions and interests of the people of the north.

There are serious questions about this wrong-headed and irresponsible campaign that Sinn Féin have not been asking. The most important is this. Were the DUP paid to back Brexit and if so, how much?

Arron Banks, the multi-millionaire who gave £1 million to UKIP and led the Leave.eu campaign funding it with $5 million, claimed the DUP asked him for £30,000 a week as their price for joining his Leave.eu campaign. The allegation surfaced in November in his book The Bad Boys of Brexit. The DUP denies this claim. Banks went on to claim the DUP got £50,000 a month from the rival Leave campaign, which the DUP also denies.

However, did they receive any money from a British pro-leave campaign and if so, how much? Who paid for the obviously expensive four-page wrap round the Metro free news sheet handed out in Greater London on June 21 just before the referendum vote? It easily cost a five figure sum and more likely north of that. That advertising wrap ran the usual nonsense Boris Johnson and his gang peddled including the laughable but damaging tale that Albania was imminently to join the EU along with Turkey thereby sending millions of migrants to the UK.

Who was responsible for the publication of this costly tissue of untruths? None other than the DUP.

Writing about this propaganda in the Irish Times Fintan O’Toole estimated that the supplement was probably ‘the most expensive single piece of propaganda ever issued by an Irish political party’. Why would the DUP do it? There are no votes for them in London or anywhere else in Britain for that matter. They’re an exclusively Northern Ireland party. One MLA ridiculously claimed it was to establish the DUP, wait for it, as a key player in the UK Brexit campaign. Yeah right.

More importantly, how much did it cost? Who paid for it? The DUP? How could party’s notoriously tight officers possibly justify shelling out that amount of money to pay for an advert aimed at people who’d never heard of the party and couldn’t vote for it? If the party didn’t pay for it out of its own funds the cost would be classed as a political donation. In that case there’s no way of knowing because political donations here are secret.

The most likely explanation is that someone in the seedy disinformation unit of the Brexit campaign realised that they could use the secrecy surrounding the north’s political funding as a way to conceal a very large sum of money spent on their own campaign in London, a city very hostile to the notion of Leave and strongly resistant to the false clams of the Brexiteers. The DUP was happy to oblige.

Now, do you believe the DUP said, ‘Sure, go ahead, use our name. It’ll put us on the map in Britain.’? That they agreed to the project, including using the party’s name for nothing?

The party is due to submit its electoral expenses to the Electoral Commission which told Britain’s Independent newspaper it expects the expenses to be of the order of £250,000.

Perhaps the north’s farmers who stand to lose over 80 per cent of their income after subsidies end in 2020 will think it was money curiously misspent? Now that it’s known Britain is to leave the single market and customs union we can all anticipate the hard borders of the future with 30 per cent export tariffs for lamb and 50 per cent for beef as opposed to the evasive rubbish we’re fed about no ‘borders of the past’.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AhNowRef on January 25, 2017, 03:49:19 PM
Good grief .. there's no end to this nonsense from the DUP .. unreal !!

Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: ashman on January 25, 2017, 04:10:26 PM
Harold Wilson had a point about these guys !!
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Gold on January 25, 2017, 06:14:06 PM
Pond life. Unbelievable
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: StGallsGAA on January 25, 2017, 08:09:02 PM
Only 150 rushed for anonymity yesterday meaning the approx 950 others can be named as per the judge's instruction.  Why haven't the names been released today then?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: JoG2 on January 25, 2017, 10:13:32 PM
You'd need a bag of eyes for this gang of charlatans!

http://www.irishnews.com/news/2017/01/25/news/mystery-surrounds-ulster-scots-community-hall-grant-application-903735/
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: omaghjoe on January 25, 2017, 10:30:18 PM
You'd need a bag of eyes for this gang of charlatans!

http://www.irishnews.com/news/2017/01/25/news/mystery-surrounds-ulster-scots-community-hall-grant-application-903735/


Had to laugh at the first comment on the article

"Since an Ulster Scots language doesn't exist either, this is quite appropriate."
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Tony Baloney on January 25, 2017, 10:33:55 PM
Only 150 rushed for anonymity yesterday meaning the approx 950 others can be named as per the judge's instruction.  Why haven't the names been released today then?
There was another 115 lumped on the injunction between 2pm when the injunction was applied for and 5pm when it was closed.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2017, 11:12:31 PM
Did any Catholic business men/women get involved in their money making scheme?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: LeoMc on January 25, 2017, 11:14:11 PM
Did any Catholic business men/women get involved in their money making scheme?
I know of some chicken farmers did. Pointed in the right direction by Moy Park.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: Over the Bar on January 25, 2017, 11:22:54 PM
Did any Catholic business men/women get involved in their money making scheme?
I know of some chicken farmers did. Pointed in the right direction by Moy Park.

Why wouldn't any poultry farmer?  It's the boys with 4 burners in one shed or heating empty silos/ horse solariums that need to be exposed and shamed.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 26, 2017, 09:41:05 AM
Going by the Nolan show, a bus is heading for Arlene.....
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: haveaharp on January 26, 2017, 09:48:35 AM
Going by the Nolan show, a bus is heading for Arlene.....

What was said GHD ?
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 26, 2017, 09:51:15 AM
Going by the Nolan show, a bus is heading for Arlene.....

What was said GHD ?

Nolan Show says a senior DUP figure is claiming Arlene Foster withheld information from the Assembly on #RHI.
DUP has not yet responded
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on January 26, 2017, 10:02:11 AM
The Charity Commission is to look into Action Renewables role in RHI.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 26, 2017, 10:39:05 AM
Michelle O'Neill says she is not answerable in any way for RHI scandal

SINN Féin's new northern leader Michelle O'Neill has said she was unaware of how costly the Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI) was until February last year.

The former agriculture minister insisted she is not answerable in any way for the scandal surrounding the green energy scheme, which she described as "entirely of the DUP's making".

Speaking to The Irish News for the first time since succeeding Martin McGuinness on Monday, Ms O'Neill acknowledged that many farmers availed of the RHI subsidies but said that was "irrelevant" to her role at the Department of Agriculture and Rural Development (Dard).

The Irish News previously revealed how more than half of RHI claimants are farm businesses and that they had claimed two-thirds of £50m paid out since the scheme was launched in 2012.

Poultry farmers, most of which supply Moy Park, represent 871 of the 2,000 recipients.

The north's poultry sector has undergone a huge expansion in recent years, coinciding with the roll-out of RHI and Stormont's agrifood expansion strategy.

'Going for Growth' was jointly sponsored by Ms O'Neill's former department and Arlene Foster's Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment.

The College of Agriculture, Food and Rural Enterprise (Cafre), which fell under the control of Dard, had six RHI boilers spread across its three campuses in Loughry, Co Tyrone, Enniskillen Co Fermanagh and Greenmount Co Antrim.

Cafre was also involved in promoting the scheme, holding regular seminars for farmers which were publicised by the Dard press office.

However, Ms O'Neill - who was welcomed by a large crowd in her home village of Clonoe, Co Tyrone last night - rejected any suggestion that she could have been aware that the RHI was flawed.

"The scheme, as it was at that time before there were any problems identified with it, was being advertised – it was a renewable incentive scheme," she said.

"I think we all agree the scheme itself, that was trying to incentivise people."

She added: "There's no link or correlation to me being an agriculture minister."

Sinn Fein's Michelle O'Neill back in her hometown of Clonoe, County Tyrone with Martin McGuinness. Picture by Justin Kernoghan.

Ms O'Neill also said she was unaware that hundreds of Moy Park suppliers, many in her own Mid Ulster constituency, were using the scheme to heat their poultry sheds.

She said 'Going for Growth' was designed to "grow all sectors right across the agrifood industry".

"I was concerned about the wider industry growth, how we opened up new opportunities for businesses," she said.

"Moy park is obviously a big employer in the area (Mid Ulster) and they're obviously a big trader internationally but in terms of actually being involved o their day-to-day business, it wouldn't be my job as a minister."

Asked when she became aware that the scheme was flawed, she said: "It's all in the public record whenever it was flagged up in February last year."

http://www.irishnews.com/news/politicalnews/2017/01/26/news/michelle-o-neill-says-she-is-not-answerable-in-any-way-for-rhi-scandal-905429/?param=ds441rif44T
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 26, 2017, 10:40:05 AM
Civil servants in leaked RHI emails are named

 http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/civil-servants-in-leaked-rhi-emails-are-named-1-7791487
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 26, 2017, 10:49:55 AM
Going by the Nolan show, a bus is heading for Arlene.....

What was said GHD ?

Put the kettle on and have a listen 

https://audioboom.com/posts/5537016-what-arlene-foster-knew-on-day-of-assembly-speech-over-rhi?t=0
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 26, 2017, 10:52:17 AM
The Charity Commission is to look into Action Renewables role in RHI.

Charities watchdog launches Action Renewables probe

A CHARITIES watchdog is investigating after a green energy group paid to process RHI applications claimed it would have been "ethically improper" to warn Stormont of flaws in the scheme.

Action Renewables earned almost £250,000 advising on around 550 applications to the botched Renewable Heat Incentive scheme.

The successful applicants account for about £300 million in taxpayer subsidies committed over 20 years.

Action Renewables' managing director Michael Doran last year appeared on a BBC Spotlight programme outlining flaws in the RHI scheme.

However, when asked last week why no-one within the charity relayed concerns to the government, he told The Irish News: "That's not what we were employed to do.

"If you're employed on behalf of a client to make an application it would then be ethically improper to then undermine that application by trying to have it withdrawn.

"The fact that the government created the scheme that some people now think is over incentivised is not our responsibility."

DUP economy minister Simon Hamilton described the comments as "deeply troubling", while Alliance's Stewart Dickson wrote to the Charity Commission calling for an investigation.

Last night the Charity Commission for Northern Ireland confirmed it has "opened a concern" into Action Renewables.

A spokesman said: "The commission's role is to ensure that charities operate within the scope of the charity law and it is on this basis that any investigation conducted by the commission is conducted.

"As a proportionate regulator, and so as to ensure that the investigation is fair, the commission will not be making any further comment while the investigation is ongoing."

http://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2017/01/26/news/rhi-charities-watchdog-launches-action-renewables-probe-905343/
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 26, 2017, 11:19:49 AM
Sinn Fein slow to clarify if any representatives in RHI


It is still not clear if any elected members of Sinn Fein or their families are receiving payments from the controversial RHI scheme.

At the time of going to press on Tuesday night, the party had not responded to a request for the information from the News Letter.

Some political parties have been auditing their members to establish a definitive list of any involved in the scheme – or who have family members benefiting from RHI payments. However a full list of recipients has not yet been complied and published.

A party spokesman for the SDLP said: “No SDLP public representatives are beneficiaries of the Renewable Heat Incentive scheme. One councillor’s brother lodged a successful application in February 2016 but will not benefit from the terms of the scheme which allow individuals to profit from burning wood pellets.

“The SDLP continues to call for the full list of RHI beneficiaries to be made public in the interests of transparency and full scrutiny.”

Both the DUP and UUP asked all of their elected representatives if anyone had benefitted directly from the RHI scheme.

A DUP spokesman said: “Carla Lockhart has indicated that her sister-in-law’s husband is a farmer and is in the scheme. Carla has only recently become aware of this.

William Irwin has a son-in-law who is a farmer and is in the scheme.” He added: “Neither MLA was involved in lobbying for these individuals and neither has any financial or other interests in the farms concerned.”

The UUP said a small number had relatives who were recipients of RHI payments, but said no elected representatives benefitted from RHI. “We have now been made aware that a business owned by an aunt and uncle of Sandra Overend MLA is a recipient under the RHI scheme, of which Sandra was previously unaware.

Mrs Overend’s uncle is married to a sister of Jim Nicholson MEP (making her an aunt of Councillor Sam Nicholson),” a party spokesman said. “We have also confirmed that Neil Somerville, who served as an Ulster Unionist MLA for seven months during the last mandate before standing down, has a wood pellet boiler accredited under the RHI Scheme in his family’s business, Clogher Valley Horses Welcome.”

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/sinn-fein-slow-to-clarify-if-any-representatives-in-rhi-1-7789171
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: imtommygunn on January 26, 2017, 11:21:10 AM
These people have been taking everyone on a ride for years. Always believed that. Not one shit could they give about peace - just feathering their own nests.
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: AQMP on January 26, 2017, 11:45:15 AM
I think SF tweeted last night that Michelle Gildernew's brother was an RHI recipient but that no other MLAs had family that had benefited.  They said they were in the process of carrying out a wider trawl (probably local councillors etc).
Title: Re: Arlene and The Renewable Heat Incentive
Post by: give her dixie on January 26, 2017, 12:13:13 PM
Who's behind the Renewable Heat Association?

THE Renewable Heat Association for Northern Ireland (RHANI) represents those involved in the renewable heat industry including non-domestic RHI scheme claimants.

It was formed about a fortnight ago as the Renewable Heat Incentive scandal gathered pace and Stormont faced growing calls to publicly name t