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GAA Discussion => GAA Discussion => Topic started by: ck on October 18, 2016, 12:02:38 AM

Title: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: ck on October 18, 2016, 12:02:38 AM
There has been moves over the weekend to set up a CPA body who will represent the club player. It will not be a GPA type body ie Money and fundraising. Instead it will have one sole focus. Speaking on behalf of club players and getting the national fixtures shambles addressed once and for all.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: ck on October 18, 2016, 12:16:17 AM
@sports_db on twitter setting it up. Has 10,000 people signed up already. It's a wonder the media hasn't got hold of it yet
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: The Subbie on October 18, 2016, 04:32:36 AM
There has been moves over the weekend to set up a CPA body who will represent the club player. It will not be a GPA type body ie Money and fundraising. Instead it will have one sole focus. Speaking on behalf of club players and getting the national fixtures shambles addressed once and for all.


Declan Brennan isn't a bad lad, has managed a few clubs to decent levels of success, my own club included, he would be fairly close to Niall Moyna & would be no ones fool.

I'd expect this will gain legs for him.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Jinxy on October 18, 2016, 08:30:11 AM
Get the Dublin super clubs on board, then you'll get people's attention.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: ck on October 18, 2016, 04:08:20 PM
Get the Dublin super clubs on board, then you'll get people's attention.

I agree. Croke park won't give a damn until they get bad press
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: mayo.mick on October 18, 2016, 04:47:22 PM
@sports_db on twitter setting it up. Has 10,000 people signed up already. It's a wonder the media hasn't got hold of it yet

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/declan-brennan-plans-club-player-body-after-10000-messages-426292.html

"Former Monaghan selector Declan Brennan has unveiled plans to establish a Club Players Association (CPA), revealing that he’s received over 10,000 messages from interested parties wishing to contribute."
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: five points on October 18, 2016, 04:52:12 PM
@sports_db on twitter setting it up. Has 10,000 people signed up already. It's a wonder the media hasn't got hold of it yet

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/declan-brennan-plans-club-player-body-after-10000-messages-426292.html

"Former Monaghan selector Declan Brennan has unveiled plans to establish a Club Players Association (CPA), revealing that he’s received over 10,000 messages from interested parties wishing to contribute."

Sounds more like a club manager's association than a club players association.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: thewobbler on October 18, 2016, 08:29:34 PM
Such a waste of time. It’s representation for the sake of representation.


The only way the club player will get the schedule he deserves is if the overwhelming majority of clubs - not the county boards, not the central council - are fully behind making it happen.

Clubs need to get their shop in order and agree to, at a minimum:

 - Reduce the size of leagues to a practical number of fixtures, even if it means accepting a season or two in a lower league (than expected) from time to time.

 - Fulfil their fixtures on time, with the season broken into blocks in which apportioned games cannot take place afterwards…. even if it means playing twice a week at certain times of year.

 - Commit to playing a sensible number of league fixtures without county players

 - Get behind their county team if they make it to August, and accept that if this might mean a club championship without county players, then so be it. We don’t have to try to eat every pie every year.


Or in summary, in my experience, the majority of clubs will do anything they can to call off a game. That’s the attitude shift that’s required. A player’s union can do feck all to address it.



Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: muppet on October 18, 2016, 08:41:18 PM
Why would a club players' association be great and a county one not great?

Serious question.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: sligoman2 on October 18, 2016, 08:59:52 PM
I think it's a great idea and one I fully support.  Remember the club player is also the fundraiser, the stand-in ref, the underage manager, the jersey washer, the admission taker, the grass cutter, the field liner, the lad traveling from Dublin for matches, the fella at meetings, the first at training and the last to complain AND the most poorly treated member of the association.

Well done to the organisers.  Time for change.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Itchy on October 18, 2016, 09:08:38 PM
Such a waste of time. It’s representation for the sake of representation.


The only way the club player will get the schedule he deserves is if the overwhelming majority of clubs - not the county boards, not the central council - are fully behind making it happen.

Clubs need to get their shop in order and agree to, at a minimum:

 - Reduce the size of leagues to a practical number of fixtures, even if it means accepting a season or two in a lower league (than expected) from time to time.

 - Fulfil their fixtures on time, with the season broken into blocks in which apportioned games cannot take place afterwards…. even if it means playing twice a week at certain times of year.

 - Commit to playing a sensible number of league fixtures without county players

 - Get behind their county team if they make it to August, and accept that if this might mean a club championship without county players, then so be it. We don’t have to try to eat every pie every year.


Or in summary, in my experience, the majority of clubs will do anything they can to call off a game. That’s the attitude shift that’s required. A player’s union can do feck all to address it.

That's the greatest load of shit I have ever read on here. The GAA needs to realise without clubs there will be nothing. It's the intercoubty season that needs to be shortened and its the intercounty manager that needs to accept that players must be available for clubs. What you are proposing there would kill the GAA grassroots stone dead.

I think the cpa is a great idea. A small minority's of elite players are the only spokesmen for all players. Time for the silent majority to be heard.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Boycey on October 18, 2016, 09:09:43 PM
Such a waste of time. It’s representation for the sake of representation.


The only way the club player will get the schedule he deserves is if the overwhelming majority of clubs - not the county boards, not the central council - are fully behind making it happen.

Clubs need to get their shop in order and agree to, at a minimum:

 - Reduce the size of leagues to a practical number of fixtures, even if it means accepting a season or two in a lower league (than expected) from time to time.

 - Fulfil their fixtures on time, with the season broken into blocks in which apportioned games cannot take place afterwards…. even if it means playing twice a week at certain times of year.

 - Commit to playing a sensible number of league fixtures without county players

 - Get behind their county team if they make it to August, and accept that if this might mean a club championship without county players, then so be it. We don’t have to try to eat every pie every year.


Or in summary, in my experience, the majority of clubs will do anything they can to call off a game. That’s the attitude shift that’s required. A player’s union can do feck all to address it.

A club championship without county players is the worst idea I've ever heard... Why should any team play its most important fixtures without their best players. If you don't look after the clubs you will have no GAA..
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: thewobbler on October 18, 2016, 10:16:42 PM
Such a waste of time. It’s representation for the sake of representation.


The only way the club player will get the schedule he deserves is if the overwhelming majority of clubs - not the county boards, not the central council - are fully behind making it happen.

Clubs need to get their shop in order and agree to, at a minimum:

 - Reduce the size of leagues to a practical number of fixtures, even if it means accepting a season or two in a lower league (than expected) from time to time.

 - Fulfil their fixtures on time, with the season broken into blocks in which apportioned games cannot take place afterwards…. even if it means playing twice a week at certain times of year.

 - Commit to playing a sensible number of league fixtures without county players

 - Get behind their county team if they make it to August, and accept that if this might mean a club championship without county players, then so be it. We don’t have to try to eat every pie every year.


Or in summary, in my experience, the majority of clubs will do anything they can to call off a game. That’s the attitude shift that’s required. A player’s union can do feck all to address it.

That's the greatest load of shit I have ever read on here. The GAA needs to realise without clubs there will be nothing. It's the intercoubty season that needs to be shortened and its the intercounty manager that needs to accept that players must be available for clubs. What you are proposing there would kill the GAA grassroots stone dead.

I think the cpa is a great idea. A small minority's of elite players are the only spokesmen for all players. Time for the silent majority to be heard.

You've unwittingly opened the window on the problem here chief.

"The silent majority". Who are they? Club players have been banging on loudly about their maltreatment for the last 30 years.

But instead of trying to find solutions, they (and their clubs) just keep digging their heels in further and further. It's horrendous whataboutery on a DUP scale.

Well, what about this... some compromise? What about, instead of harping on about mistreatment, trying to find logical, practical ways to ensure that as much football is played over the 6 warmer months as possible? What about, just for a couple of months a year- when it's going at full tilt - not emotionally bullying elite players into playing club matches when they have earned the right to compete at a higher level?

You're absolutely right to promote the importance of clubs. But if you believe that  the GAA can compete for the hearts and minds of young people without the shop window, the glory, the elite sporting opportunity, or the revenue that the county game generates, then you've lost the plot.

Stop looking upon the County game as competition, and start looking upon it as the pinnacle of our sport. Wish your club mates well when they're good enough to play at that level, and look forward to seeing them when they've got the time and focus to give to your club. Treat them as a bonus, not a right.

Do that and the club scene can actually thrive. Kee pretending that somehow you can can divide a human being in two, and we will keep going around in circles forever.

 Is this really that hard to understand?

Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Itchy on October 18, 2016, 11:14:30 PM
Such a waste of time. It’s representation for the sake of representation.


The only way the club player will get the schedule he deserves is if the overwhelming majority of clubs - not the county boards, not the central council - are fully behind making it happen.

Clubs need to get their shop in order and agree to, at a minimum:

 - Reduce the size of leagues to a practical number of fixtures, even if it means accepting a season or two in a lower league (than expected) from time to time.

 - Fulfil their fixtures on time, with the season broken into blocks in which apportioned games cannot take place afterwards…. even if it means playing twice a week at certain times of year.

 - Commit to playing a sensible number of league fixtures without county players

 - Get behind their county team if they make it to August, and accept that if this might mean a club championship without county players, then so be it. We don’t have to try to eat every pie every year.


Or in summary, in my experience, the majority of clubs will do anything they can to call off a game. That’s the attitude shift that’s required. A player’s union can do feck all to address it.

That's the greatest load of shit I have ever read on here. The GAA needs to realise without clubs there will be nothing. It's the intercoubty season that needs to be shortened and its the intercounty manager that needs to accept that players must be available for clubs. What you are proposing there would kill the GAA grassroots stone dead.

I think the cpa is a great idea. A small minority's of elite players are the only spokesmen for all players. Time for the silent majority to be heard.

You've unwittingly opened the window on the problem here chief.

"The silent majority". Who are they? Club players have been banging on loudly about their maltreatment for the last 30 years.

But instead of trying to find solutions, they (and their clubs) just keep digging their heels in further and further. It's horrendous whataboutery on a DUP scale.

Well, what about this... some compromise? What about, instead of harping on about mistreatment, trying to find logical, practical ways to ensure that as much football is played over the 6 warmer months as possible? What about, just for a couple of months a year- when it's going at full tilt - not emotionally bullying elite players into playing club matches when they have earned the right to compete at a higher level?

You're absolutely right to promote the importance of clubs. But if you believe that  the GAA can compete for the hearts and minds of young people without the shop window, the glory, the elite sporting opportunity, or the revenue that the county game generates, then you've lost the plot.

Stop looking upon the County game as competition, and start looking upon it as the pinnacle of our sport. Wish your club mates well when they're good enough to play at that level, and look forward to seeing them when they've got the time and focus to give to your club. Treat them as a bonus, not a right.

Do that and the club scene can actually thrive. Kee pretending that somehow you can can divide a human being in two, and we will keep going around in circles forever.

 Is this really that hard to understand?

All I can say to that is I totally and utterly disagree. The IRFU killed the local game doing something similar. What you are proposing is the road to professionalism. Saying the club players are loudly banging their drum, well obviously not loud enough cos no one has listened to one thing. Not croke park, not provincials and not county boards. Clubs need to know exactly when they will be playing and when they won't up front and some help for player welfare might be nice too. What we have at the moment is the opposite and most clubs are struggling to field teams now because it's just too long of a season. Meanwhile many of the elite county men piss off to the US instead of taking a few measley weeks to represent the club that put them where they are. It couldn't be more if a mess.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: ck on October 18, 2016, 11:39:15 PM
Such utter nonsense from the wobbler above.
This is not a club V county matter. This is the highlighting of the ridiculous fixtures calendar that is the GAA
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: thewobbler on October 19, 2016, 08:48:05 AM
CK - until club teams acknowledge the fact that you can't split a person in two, unfortunately it's not actually a scheduling problem.

Compress the County championship so it's over by August and there'll be senior club teams all over the land motioning that their club leagues don't start until August. So they'll go on until November regardless.

Am I the only person who thinks it's genuinely unfair for club teams to demand full availability of County players throughout the County season? I mean do we actually want our counties to win? Do we actually want our County players focused, drilled and conditioned for a higher level 6 days a week, and then forcing them to play a club game in the middle? Do we want this to happen the week before an AISFC match?
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: AZOffaly on October 19, 2016, 09:11:46 AM
CK - until club teams acknowledge the fact that you can't split a person in two, unfortunately it's not actually a scheduling problem.

Compress the County championship so it's over by August and there'll be senior club teams all over the land motioning that their club leagues don't start until August. So they'll go on until November regardless.

Am I the only person who thinks it's genuinely unfair for club teams to demand full availability of County players throughout the County season? I mean do we actually want our counties to win? Do we actually want our County players focused, drilled and conditioned for a higher level 6 days a week, and then forcing them to play a club game in the middle? Do we want this to happen the week before an AISFC match?

Play all County Leagues without County Players.

Shorten the Inter County Season.

Start Club Championships by late July at the latest.

Finish them all by end of September.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: blewuporstuffed on October 19, 2016, 09:37:24 AM
CK - until club teams acknowledge the fact that you can't split a person in two, unfortunately it's not actually a scheduling problem.

Compress the County championship so it's over by August and there'll be senior club teams all over the land motioning that their club leagues don't start until August. So they'll go on until November regardless.

Am I the only person who thinks it's genuinely unfair for club teams to demand full availability of County players throughout the County season? I mean do we actually want our counties to win? Do we actually want our County players focused, drilled and conditioned for a higher level 6 days a week, and then forcing them to play a club game in the middle? Do we want this to happen the week before an AISFC match?

Wobbler, i couldnt disagree with your posts more.

Of course its a scheduling problem!!!

I can only speak for my own county, but in Tyrone, clubs DON'T demand the county players play every game (they play in 10 out of the 15 league fixtures) and club games are very very rarely called off (unless it is to suit the county team)
Yet we are still in the situation were we have club players sitting without a game for 8-9 weeks through august & September.
Part of this is down to the complete fcukwittery of our county board this year and some of it is down to the larger issue of the intercounty season.
The two things need addressed hand in hand and the average club player needs a voice in all that.
Croke park have their agenda (which sadly seems to be revenue driven ) the GPA has theirs, so the voice of the clubs and the club player needs to be represented as well.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Esmarelda on October 19, 2016, 09:46:49 AM
I listened to the interview with Brennan last night, and I've read the comments here and what I can't understand is how nobody seems to have read the document issued to the clubs earlier this week.

It's the proposal from Croke Park regarding the inter-county season next year and it ticks a lot of boxes regarding what a lot of us have said is needed. It takes into account the three fundamental issues that the GPA said their members want and, at its heart, it tries to shorten the season to benefit anyone.

Is it a coincidence that the CPA talk starts on the same week? Has nobody else read it?
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: thewobbler on October 19, 2016, 09:50:57 AM
So blewuporstuffed, you don't think the problems in Tyrone are related to the clubs?

The only logical reason for leagues to be closed in Tyrone during August and September is down to the club championships. I'm guessing (only guessing) that it's the clubs who come up with scenarios to ensure that players aren't forced to sandwich league matches between championship matches, while the County board will be understandably hesitant to run league fixtures on the same day as championship matches, as it'll reduce attendances.

If I'm right, at least 50% of that problem is created by the clubs. If I'm wrong, I'm all ears.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: armaghniac on October 19, 2016, 09:51:15 AM
The inter county   setup gets the blame a lot of the time,  but there are plenty of other issues. Are counies like Carlow with limited inter county success entirely free of problems?
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: blewuporstuffed on October 19, 2016, 10:04:46 AM
So blewuporstuffed, you don't think the problems in Tyrone are related to the clubs?

The only logical reason for leagues to be closed in Tyrone during August and September is down to the club championships. I'm guessing (only guessing) that it's the clubs who come up with scenarios to ensure that players aren't forced to sandwich league matches between championship matches, while the County board will be understandably hesitant to run league fixtures on the same day as championship matches, as it'll reduce attendances.

If I'm right, at least 50% of that problem is created by the clubs. If I'm wrong, I'm all ears.
I'll give you an example of my own club.
we played a league game on 21st August, got knocked out of the championship in the first round the following week, 28th and haven't played since. In any competition.
We still have two rounds of league games to play. We would have happily played them at any stage over the last 8 weeks.
I have never heard of any clubs complain about playing league games between championship games.
One of the main issues this year has been replays.The time has come to get rid of them (or at least play extra time the first day out)
the trouble with getting rid of them is that they are a great revenue generator for both croke park and for county boards, but surely a regular cohesive season for the majority of people who play our games is more important than the extra revenue?
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: muppet on October 19, 2016, 10:08:33 AM
I listened to the interview with Brennan last night, and I've read the comments here and what I can't understand is how nobody seems to have read the document issued to the clubs earlier this week.

It's the proposal from Croke Park regarding the inter-county season next year and it ticks a lot of boxes regarding what a lot of us have said is needed. It takes into account the three fundamental issues that the GPA said their members want and, at its heart, it tries to shorten the season to benefit anyone.

Is it a coincidence that the CPA talk starts on the same week? Has nobody else read it?

If you posted up a link we might be able to confirm.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Esmarelda on October 19, 2016, 10:56:37 AM
I listened to the interview with Brennan last night, and I've read the comments here and what I can't understand is how nobody seems to have read the document issued to the clubs earlier this week.

It's the proposal from Croke Park regarding the inter-county season next year and it ticks a lot of boxes regarding what a lot of us have said is needed. It takes into account the three fundamental issues that the GPA said their members want and, at its heart, it tries to shorten the season to benefit anyone.

Is it a coincidence that the CPA talk starts on the same week? Has nobody else read it?

If you posted up a link we might be able to confirm.
It's a pdf. Can I attach it?

I'd have thought that if someone had read it this week they'd remember. :)
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: muppet on October 19, 2016, 11:01:33 AM
I listened to the interview with Brennan last night, and I've read the comments here and what I can't understand is how nobody seems to have read the document issued to the clubs earlier this week.

It's the proposal from Croke Park regarding the inter-county season next year and it ticks a lot of boxes regarding what a lot of us have said is needed. It takes into account the three fundamental issues that the GPA said their members want and, at its heart, it tries to shorten the season to benefit anyone.

Is it a coincidence that the CPA talk starts on the same week? Has nobody else read it?

If you posted up a link we might be able to confirm.
It's a pdf. Can I attach it?

I'd have thought that if someone had read it this week they'd remember. :)

If you got it off the net just post up the link. If it was via email you'll need to post it somewhere and then post the link here. Otherwise you could just copy the text and paste it into your post.

My connection to my home club and to my son's Dublin club are not enough to receive such emails evidently.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Esmarelda on October 19, 2016, 11:09:10 AM
I listened to the interview with Brennan last night, and I've read the comments here and what I can't understand is how nobody seems to have read the document issued to the clubs earlier this week.

It's the proposal from Croke Park regarding the inter-county season next year and it ticks a lot of boxes regarding what a lot of us have said is needed. It takes into account the three fundamental issues that the GPA said their members want and, at its heart, it tries to shorten the season to benefit anyone.

Is it a coincidence that the CPA talk starts on the same week? Has nobody else read it?

If you posted up a link we might be able to confirm.
It's a pdf. Can I attach it?

I'd have thought that if someone had read it this week they'd remember. :)

If you got it off the net just post up the link. If it was via email you'll need to post it somewhere and then post the link here. Otherwise you could just copy the text and paste it into your post.

My connection to my home club and to my son's Dublin club are not enough to receive such emails evidently.
Sorry to be so amateur but what do you mean by the bit in bold?

It was sent to me by email (pdf attachment) and it's 40 odd pages long.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: leenie on October 19, 2016, 11:23:27 AM
What is the title of the document/ proposal ?
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: The Trap on October 19, 2016, 11:26:34 AM
Wobbler, you can see clearly that you are a county game supporter and don't have any idea how these people came to play for their county.

I think the GAA are reluctant to change anything because they know if it REALLY came down to it the vast majority of players would choose to play for their clubs over their counties. Only the elite of the elite would choose county........and then the £££££££££s would be lost.

Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Esmarelda on October 19, 2016, 11:31:36 AM
What is the title of the document/ proposal ?
Proposal On A Revised Format Of The All-Ireland Senior Football Championship (2018 And Beyond.)

If someone tells me how to attach the document I can stick it up here.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: muppet on October 19, 2016, 11:43:00 AM
I listened to the interview with Brennan last night, and I've read the comments here and what I can't understand is how nobody seems to have read the document issued to the clubs earlier this week.

It's the proposal from Croke Park regarding the inter-county season next year and it ticks a lot of boxes regarding what a lot of us have said is needed. It takes into account the three fundamental issues that the GPA said their members want and, at its heart, it tries to shorten the season to benefit anyone.

Is it a coincidence that the CPA talk starts on the same week? Has nobody else read it?

If you posted up a link we might be able to confirm.
It's a pdf. Can I attach it?

I'd have thought that if someone had read it this week they'd remember. :)

If you got it off the net just post up the link. If it was via email you'll need to post it somewhere and then post the link here. Otherwise you could just copy the text and paste it into your post.

My connection to my home club and to my son's Dublin club are not enough to receive such emails evidently.
Sorry to be so amateur but what do you mean by the bit in bold?

It was sent to me by email (pdf attachment) and it's 40 odd pages long.

Unwritten rule of the net is to post a link to anything you are referring to. The bold bit was wondering if anyone else had read it and thus they might at least corroborate that it exists and what it says, or better still post a link themselves.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Esmarelda on October 19, 2016, 11:52:12 AM
Definitely exists, I see Duffy defending it on hogan stand defending it.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: keepherlit on October 19, 2016, 12:20:29 PM
Try downloading here http://www.filedropper.com/proposalonarevisedformatoftheall-irelandseniorfootballchampionship2018andbeyond
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: muppet on October 19, 2016, 12:25:50 PM
Definitely exists, I see Duffy defending it on hogan stand defending it.

I'm not doubting you. It would be far better if we could see it though. Especially as you said it ticks lots of boxes.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Itchy on October 19, 2016, 12:30:11 PM
If anyone wants it send me a pm and I'll email to you.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Louth Exile on October 19, 2016, 12:32:29 PM
Link here to last night's piece on off the ball with Moyles and Brennan

https://soundcloud.com/offtheball/the-movement-for-a-gaelic-club-players-association

Still can't find their facebook page!!
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: thewobbler on October 19, 2016, 01:00:19 PM
Wobbler, you can see clearly that you are a county game supporter and don't have any idea how these people came to play for their county.

I think the GAA are reluctant to change anything because they know if it REALLY came down to it the vast majority of players would choose to play for their clubs over their counties. Only the elite of the elite would choose county........and then the £££££££££s would be lost.

You couldn't pigeonhole me more wrongly if you tried.

Couple of things to ponder.

1. There are dozens of very useful footballers in every county, every summer who travel to the USA for the summer and leave their clubs behind. Wanting to play different football, or better football doesn't mean they don't love their clubs.

2. The single greatest influx of membership and member interest will occur when a club's county team is successful. It's what brings people in from outside.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Itchy on October 19, 2016, 01:45:08 PM
What do clubs want in my opinion and based on my dealings with the club I am a member off...

1- We want to know when our games will be played and wont be played so that players can have a holiday etc without worrying about letting the team down. We want this written in stone and not changed no matter how the county team is doing.
2- We want the season shortened into a manageable time frame. Not starting in February and still running in November.
3 - We want all our player available for our games. Whats the point in a small club with 1/2 county men having to play a league without their best players. Why bother even play it. A compromise could be reached in terms of having County players for 80% of games or something like that but again, must be written in stone and not at the whim of the latest county manager.
4 - Maybe this one is controversial but I say an end to this elitism. County players are being taken at 15 years old into development squads and they are being told "f**k your club you are a county man now". When they get to senior level they couldnt are less about their clubs. I know there are plenty of examples to the contrary but trust me this is coming in a big way. It manifests itself as county players who don't try a tap in games that they are asked to play or always have an injury when it comes to club or feck off to the US when the county exits the championship and just when the club champ is starting. If this continues clubs will start to discourage young lads from going into development panels or playing county football.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: AZOffaly on October 19, 2016, 01:49:17 PM
What do clubs want in my opinion and based on my dealings with the club I am a member off...

1- We want to know when our games will be played and wont be played so that players can have a holiday etc without worrying about letting the team down. We want this written in stone and not changed no matter how the county team is doing.
2- We want the season shortened into a manageable time frame. Not starting in February and still running in November.
3 - We want all our player available for our games. Whats the point in a small club with 1/2 county men having to play a league without their best players. Why bother even play it. A compromise could be reached in terms of having County players for 80% of games or something like that but again, must be written in stone and not at the whim of the latest county manager.
4 - Maybe this one is controversial but I say an end to this elitism. County players are being taken at 15 years old into development squads and they are being told "f**k your club you are a county man now". When they get to senior level they couldnt are less about their clubs. I know there are plenty of examples to the contrary but trust me this is coming in a big way. It manifests itself as county players who don't try a tap in games that they are asked to play or always have an injury when it comes to club or feck off to the US when the county exits the championship and just when the club champ is starting. If this continues clubs will start to discourage young lads from going into development panels or playing county football.

I don't know how your development squads are run, but I can tell you this ""f**k your club you are a county man now" " is not my experience. We bend over backwards to accomodate clubs training and games. And when you are in Tipp and have 4 divisions, with different nights set aside for the same age group across divisions, sometimes it is like being a contortionist!!

Club comes first.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Man Marker on October 19, 2016, 02:13:28 PM
Club players' union is a must after Tyrone county final replay mess

By Declan Bogue

Washout: Healy Park in Omagh was unplayable on Sunday
Imagine you are, to use as an example, Dermot Carlin this Friday. The former Tyrone player is a Killyclogher clubman. He is not long into a new job, which is based in Belfast and, as a result, faces a long daily commute. Killyclogher are in the Tyrone county final replay this Friday night. It throws in at 7.30pm. The Killyclogher players will need to have eaten something around 5pm ahead of a final meeting, and then their warm-up.

Or say you are another former Tyrone player, Johnny Curran of Coalisland.
A barber by trade, his busiest and most lucrative time of the week is Friday evenings. He will have to set down his scissors from lunchtime at the latest.
Both men are pursuing their hobby of Gaelic football. An amateur sport. There will be a crowd of anything up to 10,000 there to watch them play and they will not get a penny of the gate receipts.
In fact, it is going to cost them to partake in the showpiece day of Tyrone club football.

They are being fed the constant baffling untruth from the very highest ranks of GAA officialdom, that the club is the bedrock of the Association. Attempts by the GAA to condense the county season have failed. And their county board re-arrange a final for a Friday night.
Not only is it not good enough, but it is a grave insult to both panels that they will be forced to take a day off work to play on a Friday night.
Which is why the announcement that the formation of a club players' association, headed up by former Monaghan selector Declan Brennan, has not come a moment too soon.

Belfast Telegraph
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Itchy on October 19, 2016, 02:27:46 PM
What do clubs want in my opinion and based on my dealings with the club I am a member off...

1- We want to know when our games will be played and wont be played so that players can have a holiday etc without worrying about letting the team down. We want this written in stone and not changed no matter how the county team is doing.
2- We want the season shortened into a manageable time frame. Not starting in February and still running in November.
3 - We want all our player available for our games. Whats the point in a small club with 1/2 county men having to play a league without their best players. Why bother even play it. A compromise could be reached in terms of having County players for 80% of games or something like that but again, must be written in stone and not at the whim of the latest county manager.
4 - Maybe this one is controversial but I say an end to this elitism. County players are being taken at 15 years old into development squads and they are being told "f**k your club you are a county man now". When they get to senior level they couldnt are less about their clubs. I know there are plenty of examples to the contrary but trust me this is coming in a big way. It manifests itself as county players who don't try a tap in games that they are asked to play or always have an injury when it comes to club or feck off to the US when the county exits the championship and just when the club champ is starting. If this continues clubs will start to discourage young lads from going into development panels or playing county football.

I don't know how your development squads are run, but I can tell you this ""f**k your club you are a county man now" " is not my experience. We bend over backwards to accomodate clubs training and games. And when you are in Tipp and have 4 divisions, with different nights set aside for the same age group across divisions, sometimes it is like being a contortionist!!

Club comes first.

That doesn't come from the Cavan development squad rather from a different county. None the less it was said and from what I am hearing it's being said more and more.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: longballin on October 19, 2016, 02:29:31 PM
Club players' union is a must after Tyrone county final replay mess

By Declan Bogue
Published




 
Washout: Healy Park in Omagh was unplayable on Sunday

Imagine you are, to use as an example, Dermot Carlin this Friday. The former Tyrone player is a Killyclogher clubman. He is not long into a new job, which is based in Belfast and, as a result, faces a long daily commute. Killyclogher are in the Tyrone county final replay this Friday night. It throws in at 7.30pm. The Killyclogher players will need to have eaten something around 5pm ahead of a final meeting, and then their warm-up.

Or say you are another former Tyrone player, Johnny Curran of Coalisland.
A barber by trade, his busiest and most lucrative time of the week is Friday evenings. He will have to set down his scissors from lunchtime at the latest.
Both men are pursuing their hobby of Gaelic football. An amateur sport. There will be a crowd of anything up to 10,000 there to watch them play and they will not get a penny of the gate receipts.
In fact, it is going to cost them to partake in the showpiece day of Tyrone club football.

They are being fed the constant baffling untruth from the very highest ranks of GAA officialdom, that the club is the bedrock of the Association. Attempts by the GAA to condense the county season have failed. And their county board re-arrange a final for a Friday night.
Not only is it not good enough, but it is a grave insult to both panels that they will be forced to take a day off work to play on a Friday night.
Which is why the announcement that the formation of a club players' association, headed up by former Monaghan selector Declan Brennan, has not come a moment too soon.

Belfast Telegraph
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: five points on October 19, 2016, 02:30:29 PM
Club players' union is a must after Tyrone county final replay mess

By Declan Bogue

Washout: Healy Park in Omagh was unplayable on Sunday
Imagine you are, to use as an example, Dermot Carlin this Friday. The former Tyrone player is a Killyclogher clubman. He is not long into a new job, which is based in Belfast and, as a result, faces a long daily commute. Killyclogher are in the Tyrone county final replay this Friday night. It throws in at 7.30pm. The Killyclogher players will need to have eaten something around 5pm ahead of a final meeting, and then their warm-up.

Or say you are another former Tyrone player, Johnny Curran of Coalisland.
A barber by trade, his busiest and most lucrative time of the week is Friday evenings. He will have to set down his scissors from lunchtime at the latest.
Both men are pursuing their hobby of Gaelic football. An amateur sport. There will be a crowd of anything up to 10,000 there to watch them play and they will not get a penny of the gate receipts.
In fact, it is going to cost them to partake in the showpiece day of Tyrone club football.

They are being fed the constant baffling untruth from the very highest ranks of GAA officialdom, that the club is the bedrock of the Association. Attempts by the GAA to condense the county season have failed. And their county board re-arrange a final for a Friday night.
Not only is it not good enough, but it is a grave insult to both panels that they will be forced to take a day off work to play on a Friday night.
Which is why the announcement that the formation of a club players' association, headed up by former Monaghan selector Declan Brennan, has not come a moment too soon.

Belfast Telegraph

The rearranged Tyrone final is fixed for Friday night because there was a round of club league fixtures already fixed for next Sunday.

This new association is going to have their work cut out.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: AZOffaly on October 19, 2016, 02:36:24 PM
What do clubs want in my opinion and based on my dealings with the club I am a member off...

1- We want to know when our games will be played and wont be played so that players can have a holiday etc without worrying about letting the team down. We want this written in stone and not changed no matter how the county team is doing.
2- We want the season shortened into a manageable time frame. Not starting in February and still running in November.
3 - We want all our player available for our games. Whats the point in a small club with 1/2 county men having to play a league without their best players. Why bother even play it. A compromise could be reached in terms of having County players for 80% of games or something like that but again, must be written in stone and not at the whim of the latest county manager.
4 - Maybe this one is controversial but I say an end to this elitism. County players are being taken at 15 years old into development squads and they are being told "f**k your club you are a county man now". When they get to senior level they couldnt are less about their clubs. I know there are plenty of examples to the contrary but trust me this is coming in a big way. It manifests itself as county players who don't try a tap in games that they are asked to play or always have an injury when it comes to club or feck off to the US when the county exits the championship and just when the club champ is starting. If this continues clubs will start to discourage young lads from going into development panels or playing county football.

I don't know how your development squads are run, but I can tell you this ""f**k your club you are a county man now" " is not my experience. We bend over backwards to accomodate clubs training and games. And when you are in Tipp and have 4 divisions, with different nights set aside for the same age group across divisions, sometimes it is like being a contortionist!!

Club comes first.

That doesn't come from the Cavan development squad rather from a different county. None the less it was said and from what I am hearing it's being said more and more.

As I said, I don't know what county you are referring to, but it's not the case in anywhere I've had dealings with. Trying to work around clubs is probably the biggest challenge to development squads fixtures etc. They certainly are not rode roughshod across.

Now what you may sometimes hear or feel is the young lads themselves thinking along those lines. Big time Charlies. But again I think that's knocked on the head.

Of course as they get older into Minor etc, the county club divide *does* start to emerge. When you get to training 3 times a week and matches, it becomes inevitable.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: longballin on October 19, 2016, 02:42:52 PM
Club players' union is a must after Tyrone county final replay mess

By Declan Bogue

Washout: Healy Park in Omagh was unplayable on Sunday
Imagine you are, to use as an example, Dermot Carlin this Friday. The former Tyrone player is a Killyclogher clubman. He is not long into a new job, which is based in Belfast and, as a result, faces a long daily commute. Killyclogher are in the Tyrone county final replay this Friday night. It throws in at 7.30pm. The Killyclogher players will need to have eaten something around 5pm ahead of a final meeting, and then their warm-up.

Or say you are another former Tyrone player, Johnny Curran of Coalisland.
A barber by trade, his busiest and most lucrative time of the week is Friday evenings. He will have to set down his scissors from lunchtime at the latest.
Both men are pursuing their hobby of Gaelic football. An amateur sport. There will be a crowd of anything up to 10,000 there to watch them play and they will not get a penny of the gate receipts.
In fact, it is going to cost them to partake in the showpiece day of Tyrone club football.

They are being fed the constant baffling untruth from the very highest ranks of GAA officialdom, that the club is the bedrock of the Association. Attempts by the GAA to condense the county season have failed. And their county board re-arrange a final for a Friday night.
Not only is it not good enough, but it is a grave insult to both panels that they will be forced to take a day off work to play on a Friday night.
Which is why the announcement that the formation of a club players' association, headed up by former Monaghan selector Declan Brennan, has not come a moment too soon.

Belfast Telegraph

The rearranged Tyrone final is fixed for Friday night because there was a round of club league fixtures already fixed for next Sunday.

This new association is going to have their work cut out.

The Tyrone board in its wisdom has said match on Saturday in Carrickmore if Omagh unplayable. Just play it Saturday!
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: muppet on October 19, 2016, 03:12:32 PM
If anyone wants it send me a pm and I'll email to you.

Thanks for that.

It seems to shorten the season by a month while adding a group stage. The group stage will involve a Croke Park game, a home game and an away game. How will the Dubs manage that?  ;)

Earlier games appear more regularly and are run off in a more orderly fashion, which is a must.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: EastTyrone on October 19, 2016, 03:38:13 PM
http://www.gaa.ie/mm/Document/GaaIe/GAANews/13/41/92/FootballRevisionProposalA4SPREADSSCpdf_English.pdf (http://www.gaa.ie/mm/Document/GaaIe/GAANews/13/41/92/FootballRevisionProposalA4SPREADSSCpdf_English.pdf)
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: The Trap on October 19, 2016, 04:09:59 PM
I don't know if a CPA would work unless it got a massive membership who were prepared to back the leadership. I do think however that the powers that be at county provincial and national level should take note that something "more than words" needs to be done to adjust the calendar to ensure that club players get a fixtures schedule that they can plan their lives around.
At present county players know when their games are, Colleges players know when their games are and schools players know when their games are.
In order to do this county players are not always going to be available to their clubs but they should play 7 days before a county league game and 13 days before a county championship game (no exceptions)..........
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: ck on October 19, 2016, 06:19:50 PM
This can all be sorted out easily. The biggest problem in GAA is that there are too many grades which have competitions that overlap. This means players are caught in the middle.

A simple solution is to split the season in two. County NFL and Cship, Jan - June and Club May - October.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: five points on October 20, 2016, 11:43:10 AM
This can all be sorted out easily. The biggest problem in GAA is that there are too many grades which have competitions that overlap. This means players are caught in the middle.

A simple solution is to split the season in two. County NFL and Cship, Jan - June and Club May - October.

No club football or hurling until May every year - right when exams start, and just before students go away for the summer - would kill an awful lot of clubs. And for a county that reaches an All Ireland final in June (June???!!!), there will be no club games til July.

We may as well send in the liquidators now and be done with it.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Kickham csc on October 20, 2016, 12:12:55 PM
This can all be sorted out easily. The biggest problem in GAA is that there are too many grades which have competitions that overlap. This means players are caught in the middle.

A simple solution is to split the season in two. County NFL and Cship, Jan - June and Club May - October.

The only problem with this is the dual clubs and the squeeze put on dual players, but def agree on the principle, divide the year out into seasons
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: thewobbler on October 20, 2016, 06:43:38 PM
This can all be sorted out easily. The biggest problem in GAA is that there are too many grades which have competitions that overlap. This means players are caught in the middle.

A simple solution is to split the season in two. County NFL and Cship, Jan - June and Club May - October.

No club football or hurling until May every year - right when exams start, and just before students go away for the summer - would kill an awful lot of clubs. And for a county that reaches an All Ireland final in June (June???!!!), there will be no club games til July.

We may as well send in the liquidators now and be done with it.

And therein, yet again, lies the problem.

Club players don't want to play second fiddle to county schedules, but not do they want to play games without their players.

They want their cake, they want to eat it, they want the person they took it from to watch them eat it, and they want to leave the mess behind them.

Hopefully sooner or later it'll dawn on everyone that either both sides give a little, or else go their separate ways.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: ck on October 20, 2016, 09:13:57 PM
This can all be sorted out easily. The biggest problem in GAA is that there are too many grades which have competitions that overlap. This means players are caught in the middle.

A simple solution is to split the season in two. County NFL and Cship, Jan - June and Club May - October.

No club football or hurling until May every year - right when exams start, and just before students go away for the summer - would kill an awful lot of clubs. And for a county that reaches an All Ireland final in June (June???!!!), there will be no club games til July.

We may as well send in the liquidators now and be done with it.

Such nonsense. Club leagues usually start around easter as it is, before months of no games. My proposal would mean the club season starts, and doesn't stop.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: five points on October 21, 2016, 09:11:55 AM
This can all be sorted out easily. The biggest problem in GAA is that there are too many grades which have competitions that overlap. This means players are caught in the middle.

A simple solution is to split the season in two. County NFL and Cship, Jan - June and Club May - October.

No club football or hurling until May every year - right when exams start, and just before students go away for the summer - would kill an awful lot of clubs. And for a county that reaches an All Ireland final in June (June???!!!), there will be no club games til July.

We may as well send in the liquidators now and be done with it.

Such nonsense. Club leagues usually start around easter as it is, before months of no games. My proposal would mean the club season starts, and doesn't stop.

You mean it wouldn't start at all. No serious modern competitive sport lets its players idle for 9 months of the year.

There's no reason why club players can't be guaranteed at least 2 competitive league games in each of March, April and May if the intercounty national leagues calendar is tailored accordingly
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Declan on October 21, 2016, 09:16:41 AM
Could be interesting to follow this - https://twitter.com/ClubPlayerAssoc (https://twitter.com/ClubPlayerAssoc)
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Lone Shark on October 21, 2016, 11:54:27 AM
A big factor here is that it's easy to diagnose the problem, but it's far from easy to come up with a solution.

To give one example, in my own home club of Ferbane. We have representatives on the county minor, under-21 and senior panels in football and hurling. Now as it happens, none of the minors were starting for the seniors this year but that would be unusual in and of itself. Last year we would have had both. Now in Offaly, there would be rules that would state that:

(1) If a county minor is playing a championship game on saturday, then his club can be fixed to play championship on Sunday
(2) For the National league, the county manager must name his 26 players midweek and then all other panelists are available to play club league that weekend.
(3) No "training weekends" or any other such nonsense when county players are unavailable for their clubs in the league.

Now bear in mind that last year, neither our senior footballers nor senior hurlers made any real inroads into their competitions - and yet every single weekend from the 23rd of April through to the middle of July was within 7 days of an Offaly hurling or football championship.


Now it's the easiest thing in the world to talk about clubs being the bedrock and all that, but what actual practical solutions can you put in place for a situation like that? Condensing the county championship is certainly welcome but you're still going to have huge swathes of the summer when county players are unavailable to their clubs - the gaps just aren't there.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Jinxy on October 21, 2016, 12:36:31 PM
Hurling and football every other weekend with the first weekend in every month kept free.
Clubs with small picks need all hands on deck but it should be possible to have regular games without flogging the players.
Allow clubs to do a proper pre-season and then let them keep fit by playing instead of training.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: midLouth on October 22, 2016, 10:13:43 PM
This can all be sorted out easily. The biggest problem in GAA is that there are too many grades which have competitions that overlap. This means players are caught in the middle.

A simple solution is to split the season in two. County NFL and Cship, Jan - June and Club May - October.

No club football or hurling until May every year - right when exams start, and just before students go away for the summer - would kill an awful lot of clubs. And for a county that reaches an All Ireland final in June (June???!!!), there will be no club games til July.

We may as well send in the liquidators now and be done with it.

And therein, yet again, lies the problem.

Club players don't want to play second fiddle to county schedules, but not do they want to play games without their players.

They want their cake, they want to eat it, they want the person they took it from to watch them eat it, and they want to leave the mess behind them.

Hopefully sooner or later it'll dawn on everyone that either both sides give a little, or else go their separate ways.

Do you not think there are too many inter county competitions? I would get rid of the winter competitions, I don't see the need for them.

i would like to see an investigation to see whether the adoption of a standard club league and championship format adopted by the 32 counties with a master fixture list created by Croke Park in conjunction with the inter county season would work better than the current situation.

In Louth, since we exit so early we don't really have these issues. The only time I can think of club games being changed it was to accommodate the county manger. Make little difference. All are competitions are wrapped up.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: five points on October 24, 2016, 10:04:02 AM
Do you not think there are too many inter county competitions? I would get rid of the winter competitions, I don't see the need for them.
You mean the O'Byrne Cup etc? They're there to allow teams to avoid going cold into the national leagues.  I don't see how scrapping them could help clubs because clubs don't play league football or hurling in January, and don't want to either.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 24, 2016, 08:32:21 PM
Probably going off on a tangent, but why isn't there a Master fixture list for clubs. I know each county has their own, but looking at the Connacht club thread, which says it all regarding clubs and club players. FFS if the Mayo/Tourlestrane game ends in a draw the replay is the following day.

What I'm trying to say is the central council should take over club fixtures, lay down rules that are similar in every county, I. e every county must have knockout/groups etc. Until this happens counties who kowtow to managers wishes and shaft the ordinary club players will continue.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Rossfan on October 24, 2016, 09:42:33 PM
If they can get the Ulster Council to tighten up their feckin Championship then all other rescheduling tasks will be a doddle!
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: ck on October 25, 2016, 11:11:15 PM
If they can get the Ulster Council to tighten up their feckin Championship then all other rescheduling tasks will be a doddle!

It's got nothing to do with Ulster council. Everything to do with incompetent county boards who decide to run off their championships in a few weeks at the end of a season.
Provincial councils fix their fixtures and stick to them, the compete opposite to county boards.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: midLouth on October 25, 2016, 11:26:03 PM
Do you not think there are too many inter county competitions? I would get rid of the winter competitions, I don't see the need for them.
You mean the O'Byrne Cup etc? They're there to allow teams to avoid going cold into the national leagues.  I don't see how scrapping them could help clubs because clubs don't play league football or hurling in January, and don't want to either.

Push the national leagues back into January and have a side gap between the end of league to start of championship would be the idea.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: five points on October 26, 2016, 09:54:02 AM
Push the national leagues back into January and have a side gap between the end of league to start of championship would be the idea.
Wonder what the GPA think of this? County players are under enough pressure as it is without having to play crucial league games in the snow, wind and rain of January. And the gap between the end of the leagues and the start of the championship, a period of mind-numbing boredom for players as it is, is going to be even longer?
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: five points on October 26, 2016, 09:56:58 AM
What I'm trying to say is the central council should take over club fixtures, lay down rules that are similar in every county, I. e every county must have knockout/groups etc. Until this happens counties who kowtow to managers wishes and shaft the ordinary club players will continue.

I'd say the switchboard operator in Croke Park will be delighted to take a call on a Sunday morning telling her that the pitch in Farrandeelin is flooded at the bottom end, or that Johnny the scoreboard man's grandad is on the way out and the game might have to be put off if he dies.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: midLouth on October 26, 2016, 10:01:11 AM
Push the national leagues back into January and have a side gap between the end of league to start of championship would be the idea.
Wonder what the GPA think of this? County players are under enough pressure as it is without having to play crucial league games in the snow, wind and rain of January. And the gap between the end of the leagues and the start of the championship, a period of mind-numbing boredom for players as it is, is going to be even longer?

Mind numbing....what are you even talking about. Too much of your post I disagree with so I'' not going to bother. You come across like you don't give a bollox about the club scene.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: five points on October 26, 2016, 10:30:50 AM
Push the national leagues back into January and have a side gap between the end of league to start of championship would be the idea.
Wonder what the GPA think of this? County players are under enough pressure as it is without having to play crucial league games in the snow, wind and rain of January. And the gap between the end of the leagues and the start of the championship, a period of mind-numbing boredom for players as it is, is going to be even longer?

Mind numbing....what are you even talking about. Too much of your post I disagree with so I'' not going to bother. You come across like you don't give a bollox about the club scene.

You don't know me from Adam sonny so don't start attacking me just because you don't agree with what I say. Talk to any intercounty footballer and they'll tell you 1. the pressure in the early months of the year is already crazy. 2.  they're sickened by the endless cycle of repetitive training and no games in April & May.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: blewuporstuffed on October 26, 2016, 11:55:20 AM
They can play for their clubs in April & May
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 26, 2016, 11:57:04 AM
What I'm trying to say is the central council should take over club fixtures, lay down rules that are similar in every county, I. e every county must have knockout/groups etc. Until this happens counties who kowtow to managers wishes and shaft the ordinary club players will continue.

I'd say the switchboard operator in Croke Park will be delighted to take a call on a Sunday morning telling her that the pitch in Farrandeelin is flooded at the bottom end, or that Johnny the scoreboard man's grandad is on the way out and the game might have to be put off if he dies.

Just a suggestion. What's your proposal?
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: five points on October 26, 2016, 12:25:02 PM
What I'm trying to say is the central council should take over club fixtures, lay down rules that are similar in every county, I. e every county must have knockout/groups etc. Until this happens counties who kowtow to managers wishes and shaft the ordinary club players will continue.

I'd say the switchboard operator in Croke Park will be delighted to take a call on a Sunday morning telling her that the pitch in Farrandeelin is flooded at the bottom end, or that Johnny the scoreboard man's grandad is on the way out and the game might have to be put off if he dies.

Just a suggestion. What's your proposal?

Don't broke what isn't fixed. Its important for counties to keep control of games and fixtures. If a county board or CCC is doing a bad job, the clubs can vote them out. The clubs can't vote out a paid official in Croke Park.

And county boards need to stop postponing games for all sorts of excuses. It was odd to see Tommy Kenoy on the Indo the other day championing the CPA and lamenting the plight of the club player and then whinging that the Connacht Council wouldn't call off a game for his club because one of their elderly club Presidents had died.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: The Trap on October 26, 2016, 12:41:14 PM
People like five points are what is ruining the GAA........
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: muppet on October 26, 2016, 01:51:16 PM
What I'm trying to say is the central council should take over club fixtures, lay down rules that are similar in every county, I. e every county must have knockout/groups etc. Until this happens counties who kowtow to managers wishes and shaft the ordinary club players will continue.

I'd say the switchboard operator in Croke Park will be delighted to take a call on a Sunday morning telling her that the pitch in Farrandeelin is flooded at the bottom end, or that Johnny the scoreboard man's grandad is on the way out and the game might have to be put off if he dies.

Just a suggestion. What's your proposal?

Don't broke what isn't fixed. Its important for counties to keep control of games and fixtures. If a county board or CCC is doing a bad job, the clubs can vote them out. The clubs can't vote out a paid official in Croke Park.

And county boards need to stop postponing games for all sorts of excuses. It was odd to see Tommy Kenoy on the Indo the other day championing the CPA and lamenting the plight of the club player and then whinging that the Connacht Council wouldn't call off a game for his club because one of their elderly club Presidents had died.

If this were a motion, it would probably get passed at Congress.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: midLouth on October 26, 2016, 11:17:26 PM
What I'm trying to say is the central council should take over club fixtures, lay down rules that are similar in every county, I. e every county must have knockout/groups etc. Until this happens counties who kowtow to managers wishes and shaft the ordinary club players will continue.

I'd say the switchboard operator in Croke Park will be delighted to take a call on a Sunday morning telling her that the pitch in Farrandeelin is flooded at the bottom end, or that Johnny the scoreboard man's grandad is on the way out and the game might have to be put off if he dies.

Just a suggestion. What's your proposal?

Don't broke what isn't fixed. Its important for counties to keep control of games and fixtures. If a county board or CCC is doing a bad job, the clubs can vote them out. The clubs can't vote out a paid official in Croke Park.

And county boards need to stop postponing games for all sorts of excuses. It was odd to see Tommy Kenoy on the Indo the other day championing the CPA and lamenting the plight of the club player and then whinging that the Connacht Council wouldn't call off a game for his club because one of their elderly club Presidents had died.

 ::)
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 28, 2016, 09:54:11 AM
Another suggestion... go back to what they did around 100 years ago. It'd help player burnout no end. Start next year's championship and finish it in January or February 2019. Better still July 2019. The weather and pitches would be better then. There'd be plenty of time for club players, dual players and all sorts of competitions.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: longballin on October 28, 2016, 10:06:24 AM
Better still go back 20 years and lose the backdoor, championship should be straight knockout - the qualifier system is just a superfluous money making scheme.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Boycey on January 09, 2017, 12:24:38 PM
So the big launch was this morning.. A game changer or more pointless waffle?





Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: magpie seanie on January 09, 2017, 01:00:27 PM
How do I join?
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Owenmoresider on January 09, 2017, 01:02:14 PM
How do I join?
http://gaaclubplayers.com/ (http://gaaclubplayers.com/)
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: magpie seanie on January 09, 2017, 02:15:39 PM
How do I join?
http://gaaclubplayers.com/ (http://gaaclubplayers.com/)


Thanks, just signed up. I feel I have some insights and experience that I could share with them. What do you reckon???
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: AZOffaly on January 09, 2017, 02:16:51 PM
I thought you wrote their blurb! I joined up yesterday as a coach.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Jinxy on January 09, 2017, 02:24:40 PM
Just signed up there.
Great to see the likes of Liam Griffin and Anthony Moyles involved with this.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Avondhu star on January 09, 2017, 02:28:35 PM
I just hope that they dont get any tax payers money. I dont believe that the GPA should ever have got any either. If the GAA cant fundthem then let them do without
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: magpie seanie on January 09, 2017, 03:07:56 PM
I just hope that they dont get any tax payers money. I dont believe that the GPA should ever have got any either. If the GAA cant fundthem then let them do without


I doubt the CPA will be looking for taxpayers money. The GPA was always about money and still is, the CPA is not.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Owenmoresider on January 09, 2017, 03:20:39 PM
How do I join?
http://gaaclubplayers.com/ (http://gaaclubplayers.com/)


Thanks, just signed up. I feel I have some insights and experience that I could share with them. What do you reckon???
You can sing that!  ;D
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: joemamas on January 09, 2017, 03:49:02 PM
I just hope that they dont get any tax payers money. I dont believe that the GPA should ever have got any either. If the GAA cant fundthem then let them do without


I doubt the CPA will be looking for taxpayers money. The GPA was always about money and still is, the CPA is not.

+1, still scratching my head on how the former it is not highlighted more.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Kickham csc on January 09, 2017, 04:12:46 PM
I just hope that they dont get any tax payers money. I dont believe that the GPA should ever have got any either. If the GAA cant fundthem then let them do without


I doubt the CPA will be looking for taxpayers money. The GPA was always about money and still is, the CPA is not.

+1, still scratching my head on how the former it is not highlighted more.

They should receive some money from somewhere, which, in my opinion, should be syphoned off the CPA die to their sheer ineptitude in not reaching out and covering club footballers issues. The money needs to go towards travel expenses, and basic organizational expenses (meetings, stationary etc). This would ensure that the two organizations would get some parity of esteem. How could the GAA defend a position where an organization that represents approx. 1-5% of the playing population receives support and organization that represents 95-99% doesn't.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Jinxy on January 09, 2017, 05:03:34 PM
I don't want the CPA to have anything to do with the GPA.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on January 09, 2017, 05:08:51 PM
I don't want the CPA to have anything to do with the GPA.

They don't want to have anything to do with the GPA. Have a listen here:

https://www.facebook.com/jerome.quinn.7/videos/10209584361783811/ (https://www.facebook.com/jerome.quinn.7/videos/10209584361783811/)

"There will be no jobs for the boys, there will be no salaries"
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: magpie seanie on January 09, 2017, 05:11:36 PM
I don't want the CPA to have anything to do with the GPA.


I agree but I certainly think the 99% of GAA players that only play for clubs are contributing to our cultural heritage in a significant way. Wasn't that one of the lies reasons for grants expenses additional payments to the GPA? I'm pretty sure if the CPA did receive any funding it would be used for the good of all GAA members/players and not pocketed by a select, elite few who derive tremendous benefits from their involvement already.

The fightback is long overdue.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Avondhu star on January 09, 2017, 05:33:12 PM
I don't want the CPA to have anything to do with the GPA.


I agree but I certainly think the 99% of GAA players that only play for clubs are contributing to our cultural heritage in a significant way. Wasn't that one of the lies reasons for grants expenses additional payments to the GPA? I'm pretty sure if the CPA did receive any funding it would be used for the good of all GAA members/players and not pocketed by a select, elite few who derive tremendous benefits from their involvement already.

The fightback is long overdue.
All that cultural heritage shite was fine when we had loads of money and Bertie was buying elections.
Does the taxpayer want their taxes to go on services or on creating another feather nest for some people's hobby. If club players haven't the balls to get their club and county board to organise properly they should take up some other hobby
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: manfromdelmonte on January 09, 2017, 06:41:50 PM
GAA should immediately give a cut of the GPA deal to the CPA for running this campaign

There are counties that don't even bother to produce a masters fixtures book for all competitions
They make it up as they go along
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Jinxy on January 09, 2017, 06:50:26 PM
They should let someone like Moyles do the bulk of the media stuff.
Smart, good speaker and lots of experience doing radio stuff.
Just after seeing Martin McHugh is involved as well.
Keep him away from the microphone.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: longballin on January 09, 2017, 07:14:30 PM
CPA launch fronted by high profile county players in D4 club that signs up players on international scale... oops!
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Jinxy on January 09, 2017, 07:32:16 PM
Name the county players.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Rossfan on January 09, 2017, 08:00:27 PM
Name the county players.
Martin Mc Hugh still a club player? ;D
It appears a rational fixtures calendar would sort out an awful lot of  club players' concerns.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: shark on January 09, 2017, 08:18:33 PM
Name the county players.
Martin Mc Hugh still a club player? ;D
It appears a rational fixtures calendar would sort out an awful lot of  club players' concerns.

Of course it would. But it doesn't seem like happening any time soon. They couldn't even get a 2 week shift in the intercounty season across the line at congress.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: thewobbler on January 09, 2017, 08:20:33 PM
Name the county players.
Martin Mc Hugh still a club player? ;D
It appears a rational fixtures calendar would sort out an awful lot of  club players' concerns.

And the problem will be that clubs and and club players will not be rational about the demands on County players to play club matches.

If the CPA is militant at all there's only two ways this can end up, a) the destruction of the county game as players will refuse to do both, or b) the complete resignation of County players from club football, as they'll be given no choice if they want to play county ball.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Jinxy on January 09, 2017, 08:28:35 PM
I think that's why it's good to have ex-county players involved.
They can look at it from both sides of the argument.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: The Trap on January 09, 2017, 08:44:29 PM
I am delighted this has been set up, probably a few years too late but hopefully every club player joins and supports the CPA.
What I have found very interesting in recent years is that ex county players writing in various media outlets have spoken about how terribly club players are treated but that they only realised this when they retired from county and returned to play for the club. Are county players in that big of a bubble?
It is going to be very difficult to make meaningful change very quickly but I couldn't see things being passed in the future such as moving the under 21s to the summer, not allowing county minors to play for their clubs or reducing the age from 18 to 17.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Jinxy on January 09, 2017, 08:53:32 PM
Liam Griffin on Newstalk now.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Jinxy on January 09, 2017, 09:06:54 PM
Spoke brilliantly as usual.
He's just someone that instantly commands respect.
'Fix the Fixtures' is the perfect slogan.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: longballin on January 09, 2017, 11:19:32 PM
Name the county players.

used players for their county profile - Aaron Kernan, McHugh and yer man from Roscommon does goals and makes the funny faces
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Rossfan on January 09, 2017, 11:31:15 PM
Name the county players.

used players for their county profile - Aaron Kernan, McHugh and yer man from Roscommon does goals and makes the funny faces
Thought I saw Cake's head at the top table alright. While sticking well known faces out in front might be a good idea at the start - surely one genuine ordinary club player from each Province would be a far better long term more convincing public face.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Syferus on January 10, 2017, 12:49:45 AM
Name the county players.

used players for their county profile - Aaron Kernan, McHugh and yer man from Roscommon does goals and makes the funny faces
Thought I saw Cake's head at the top table alright. While sticking well known faces out in front might be a good idea at the start - surely one genuine ordinary club player from each Province would be a far better long term more convincing public face.

Christ give them a wet day at it before criticising their approach..
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Jinxy on January 10, 2017, 09:39:49 AM
Name the county players.

used players for their county profile - Aaron Kernan, McHugh and yer man from Roscommon does goals and makes the funny faces

If you used to be a county player, but now you exclusively play club football, what are you?
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: seafoid on January 10, 2017, 09:40:48 AM
They want to finish club finals in the calendar year . I think it will be like Rome vs the Irish dioceses back in the day

at 41.15 Colm O'Rourke in a gaffer jacket
http://www.rte.ie/player/ch/show/rte-news-six-one-30003249/10671847/
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on January 10, 2017, 09:42:17 AM
CPA launch fronted by high profile county players in D4 club that signs up players on international scale... oops!

Ballyboden is not in D4. Those high profile county players are solely club players now.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: magpie seanie on January 10, 2017, 10:08:20 AM
Name the county players.
Martin Mc Hugh still a club player? ;D
It appears a rational fixtures calendar would sort out an awful lot of  club players' concerns.

And the problem will be that clubs and and club players will not be rational about the demands on County players to play club matches.

If the CPA is militant at all there's only two ways this can end up, a) the destruction of the county game as players will refuse to do both, or b) the complete resignation of County players from club football, as they'll be given no choice if they want to play county ball.


A bit ott there Wobbler. These issues can be solved through dialogue and they will be. The CPA will not be militant unlike the GPA who threatened and facilitated strikes etc until they got the money they craved.

It's unfortunate that this volunteer group has to be put in place to lobby for what should be basic common sense measures. However, I'm sure with calm heads and positive engagement solutions can be found that will vastly improve the fixtures crisis. No one can deny there's a crisis. No one can say it's acceptable. Anyone who sees the CPA as a threat confuses me to be honest.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Jinxy on January 10, 2017, 10:23:23 AM
Name the county players.
Martin Mc Hugh still a club player? ;D
It appears a rational fixtures calendar would sort out an awful lot of  club players' concerns.

And the problem will be that clubs and and club players will not be rational about the demands on County players to play club matches.

If the CPA is militant at all there's only two ways this can end up, a) the destruction of the county game as players will refuse to do both, or b) the complete resignation of County players from club football, as they'll be given no choice if they want to play county ball.

One strike and I'm out - Liam Griffin on new Club Players Association

Griffin believes a few "sacred cows may have to be slaughtered" if a solution is to be found.

But players withdrawing their involvement is not something he would associate with, adding that he didn't imagine it would ever come to such an impasse.
"I want fellas to play games, I don't want to stop them playing games. I'm not a member of ASTI or a trade union or somebody saying 'the gates are locked and you can't go in'," he said.


http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/one-strike-and-im-out-liam-griffin-on-new-club-players-association-35355037.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/one-strike-and-im-out-liam-griffin-on-new-club-players-association-35355037.html)
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Rossfan on January 10, 2017, 11:08:47 AM
CPA launch fronted by high profile county players in D4 club that signs up players on international scale... oops!

Ballyboden is not in D4. Those high profile county players are solely club players now.
I think you'll find Cake, Máirtín Beag and Griffin would need a big EX before the word club.
A bit of dialogue can easily sort out the fixtures mess but will  the biggest stumbling block be the Provincial Councils?
Tightening up Inter Co calendars will impinge most on the present leisurely time frames of the Provincial Championships.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on January 10, 2017, 12:53:10 PM
CPA launch fronted by high profile county players in D4 club that signs up players on international scale... oops!

Ballyboden is not in D4. Those high profile county players are solely club players now.
I think you'll find Cake, Máirtín Beag and Griffin would need a big EX before the word club.
A bit of dialogue can easily sort out the fixtures mess but will  the biggest stumbling block be the Provincial Councils?
Tightening up Inter Co calendars will impinge most on the present leisurely time frames of the Provincial Championships.

Niall Corcoran. Aaron Kernan. Kevin Nolan. Derek Kavanagh.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Boycey on January 10, 2017, 12:56:10 PM
Name the county players.
Martin Mc Hugh still a club player? ;D
It appears a rational fixtures calendar would sort out an awful lot of  club players' concerns.

And the problem will be that clubs and and club players will not be rational about the demands on County players to play club matches.

If the CPA is militant at all there's only two ways this can end up, a) the destruction of the county game as players will refuse to do both, or b) the complete resignation of County players from club football, as they'll be given no choice if they want to play county ball.


A bit ott there Wobbler. These issues can be solved through dialogue and they will be. The CPA will not be militant unlike the GPA who threatened and facilitated strikes etc until they got the money they craved.

It's unfortunate that this volunteer group has to be put in place to lobby for what should be basic common sense measures. However, I'm sure with calm heads and positive engagement solutions can be found that will vastly improve the fixtures crisis. No one can deny there's a crisis. No one can say it's acceptable. Anyone who sees the CPA as a threat confuses me to be honest.

I wouldn't be sure they won't be militant Seanie, Declan Brennan who formed the CPA I know personally and I'd definitely count him as militant. I also read this the other day from Willie Coleman who, according to the article anyway is the provincial co-ordinator for Munster.

Quote
The question has been asked would the CPA ask the players to strike. It’s not something that they would want to do, but if it has to be done it’s not something that is going to be ruled out if it can help to achieve the overall objective.

Link to full piece - http://www.tipperarystar.ie/news/sport/229465/coleman-calls-on-tipperary-club-players-to-pledge-their-support-to-the-cpa.html

I thought it was a bit much to be mooting strike action before they had even got their agenda out there
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: thewobbler on January 10, 2017, 01:14:05 PM
Call it OTT Seanie, but in my experience the overarching reason for creating a union is to force the balance of power. That "force" might be achieved through negotiation but it's the overwhelming impact of what a union can do (or threaten to do) that changes the balance of power.

From my perspective personally i blame clubs much more for the current mess than I blame county boards, provincial boards or the GAA.

It is the clubs that refuse to fulfil fixtures without their County players, the clubs that refuse to play league games ahead of championship games, the clubs who seek a match postponement because a squad player's great aunt has died, it's the clubs who will ultimately try to split a player in two.

from what I can see, the CPA is going to continue to fight those corners, rather than find compromise.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Jinxy on January 10, 2017, 01:15:25 PM
They only launched the thing yesterday!
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Syferus on January 10, 2017, 01:16:09 PM
What brand of eejit is this Griffin lad saying he'll leave if there's a strike? What union on Earth would start life with such a mad statement?

Destroying your own leverage before you start.

I'll fight for your rights, but only a bit.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: magpie seanie on January 10, 2017, 01:33:07 PM
Call it OTT Seanie, but in my experience the overarching reason for creating a union is to force the balance of power. That "force" might be achieved through negotiation but it's the overwhelming impact of what a union can do (or threaten to do) that changes the balance of power.

From my perspective personally i blame clubs much more for the current mess than I blame county boards, provincial boards or the GAA.

It is the clubs that refuse to fulfil fixtures without their County players, the clubs that refuse to play league games ahead of championship games, the clubs who seek a match postponement because a squad player's great aunt has died, it's the clubs who will ultimately try to split a player in two.

from what I can see, the CPA is going to continue to fight those corners, rather than find compromise.


I don't agree. From my experience there's very little clubs can do. County boards facilitate and agree to every request from the county team set up no matter what prior agreements were in place. Certainly there's no question here of not fulfilling fixtures here in Sligo - hefty fines are imposed if that happens.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Hound on January 10, 2017, 01:45:43 PM
Call it OTT Seanie, but in my experience the overarching reason for creating a union is to force the balance of power. That "force" might be achieved through negotiation but it's the overwhelming impact of what a union can do (or threaten to do) that changes the balance of power.

From my perspective personally i blame clubs much more for the current mess than I blame county boards, provincial boards or the GAA.

It is the clubs that refuse to fulfil fixtures without their County players, the clubs that refuse to play league games ahead of championship games, the clubs who seek a match postponement because a squad player's great aunt has died, it's the clubs who will ultimately try to split a player in two.

from what I can see, the CPA is going to continue to fight those corners, rather than find compromise.


I don't agree. From my experience there's very little clubs can do. County boards facilitate and agree to every request from the county team set up no matter what prior agreements were in place. Certainly there's no question here of not fulfilling fixtures here in Sligo - hefty fines are imposed if that happens.
Seanie, you said "No one can deny there's a crisis", but if it's your experience in Sligo that most club fixtures get fulfilled as planned, what exactly is the fixture crisis in Sligo?
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: AZOffaly on January 10, 2017, 01:46:31 PM
Clubs make up county boards. That's the extent to which I would 'blame' the clubs.

There needs to be a holistic, national approach to this, which incorporates games played without county players (leagues etc). Periods of the year which are ONLY for county Games (i.e early summer for championship), a condensed intercounty calendar, and a guideline that county championships start all over the country at roughly the same time, and with no inter county distractions.

That will allow the club player get a regular set of league fixtures in, without county players. It will give him a blackout period when he knows he can go on holiday in early mid summer, and it will give him a guaranteed period when he will be starting his championship, and it will run uninterrupted until it completes.

If we leave the format of the inter county championship to the other thread, I'd like to see something like this proposed (obviously with tweaks ironed out) and adopted in every county in the country.

January - No club activity - Pre season county activities (training)
Mid February - Start of Inter County Leagues - Max of 7 games, played off over 9 weeks (hurling and football on same weekends)
Mid February - Start of Club pre-season, including Feis Cups, Tournament games etc.
**No League Finals or Semi Finals ** Top of Division wins league.
Mid April - Start of Inter County Championships - Condensed, standardised and with a target of finishing championship by Late July/early August.

March - April - May - June - Intra County Football and Hurling Leagues.  All games played without county players until County team eliminated.

July - Holiday break. Black out period. (Clubs can train and play challenges if they wish)

August - Start of County Championships - Run uninterrupted. Finished by End of September.

October - November - Provincial and All Ireland Club Championships.

December - No GAA Activity.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Hound on January 10, 2017, 02:04:54 PM
Clubs make up county boards. That's the extent to which I would 'blame' the clubs.

There needs to be a holistic, national approach to this, which incorporates games played without county players (leagues etc). Periods of the year which are ONLY for county Games (i.e early summer for championship), a condensed intercounty calendar, and a guideline that county championships start all over the country at roughly the same time, and with no inter county distractions.

That will allow the club player get a regular set of league fixtures in, without county players. It will give him a blackout period when he knows he can go on holiday in early mid summer, and it will give him a guaranteed period when he will be starting his championship, and it will run uninterrupted until it completes.

If we leave the format of the inter county championship to the other thread, I'd like to see something like this proposed (obviously with tweaks ironed out) and adopted in every county in the country.

January - No club activity - Pre season county activities (training)
Mid February - Start of Inter County Leagues - Max of 7 games, played off over 9 weeks (hurling and football on same weekends)
Mid February - Start of Club pre-season, including Feis Cups, Tournament games etc.
**No League Finals or Semi Finals ** Top of Division wins league.
Mid April - Start of Inter County Championships - Condensed, standardised and with a target of finishing championship by Late July/early August.

March - April - May - June - Intra County Football and Hurling Leagues.  All games played without county players until County team eliminated.

July - Holiday break. Black out period. (Clubs can train and play challenges if they wish)

August - Start of County Championships - Run uninterrupted. Finished by End of September.

October - November - Provincial and All Ireland Club Championships.

December - No GAA Activity.

If you want fixture certainty there also can be no replays in either club or county competitions. So we need to agree what to do in the event a  knockout match is level after extra time.
Also no more moaning about 6/7 day turnarounds.
More games to take place on Saturdays so more intercounty games can take place on a single weekend.

As the CPA's primary issue is fixtures, is it not surprising that they have yet to come up with a properly thought out fixture calendar as their suggestion on how to fix it?

Personally I think no replays at any level, and no more easy postponements at club level would easily sort out the majority of the fixture problems
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: thewobbler on January 10, 2017, 02:12:48 PM
Sadly Hound it's not even slightly surprising.

Any attempt to propose a calendar will require either a series of fixtures without County players, or else a partitioned structure (e.g 6 weeks of County, 6 weeks of club, repeat).

As such it would have potential to upset a large number of possible members (I.e. The more militant "club is king" brigade and the "there must be a solution, why hasn't anyone thought of it?" brigade").

Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: AZOffaly on January 10, 2017, 02:23:39 PM
Yeah, I'd have no replays, or else replays on a Wednesday night if drawn after extra time.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: magpie seanie on January 10, 2017, 02:35:50 PM
Call it OTT Seanie, but in my experience the overarching reason for creating a union is to force the balance of power. That "force" might be achieved through negotiation but it's the overwhelming impact of what a union can do (or threaten to do) that changes the balance of power.

From my perspective personally i blame clubs much more for the current mess than I blame county boards, provincial boards or the GAA.

It is the clubs that refuse to fulfil fixtures without their County players, the clubs that refuse to play league games ahead of championship games, the clubs who seek a match postponement because a squad player's great aunt has died, it's the clubs who will ultimately try to split a player in two.

from what I can see, the CPA is going to continue to fight those corners, rather than find compromise.


I don't agree. From my experience there's very little clubs can do. County boards facilitate and agree to every request from the county team set up no matter what prior agreements were in place. Certainly there's no question here of not fulfilling fixtures here in Sligo - hefty fines are imposed if that happens.
Seanie, you said "No one can deny there's a crisis", but if it's your experience in Sligo that most club fixtures get fulfilled as planned, what exactly is the fixture crisis in Sligo?


I didn't say "fulfilled as planned" - that's not the case. There is a plan at the start of the year and it gets altered to suit the county team as and when is required. The games might still be fixed and the clubs have to play them or get fined. I could write pages about this on Sligo alone - a small county with very little hurling where fixture planning should be simple.

In a way you've answered your own question. Fixtures are "fulfilled" and that's all that matters to the powers that be. Tick the box and move on.

You're surely not denying there's a crisis?
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Hound on January 10, 2017, 02:57:30 PM

You're surely not denying there's a crisis?

I go to almost every game my club's first team plays. Over the next few weeks the Dublin County Board will issue a master fixture list outlining every league game (date, time, venue) that my club will play with also plans for when championship will be played.

I put them into my calendar and try to avoid having holdidays / weekends away clashing with them.

The last 2 league games usually happen after Dublin exit the championship as they are the only league games the clubs are allowed to postpone if they don't have their county players available. So as championship also needs to get played at this time, there can be uncertainty re the games in October and November. But the first 13 league games pretty much run like clockwork with the odd exception for bad weather etc.

There's no "crisis" in Dublin club football, in my experience of following a senior team, and Dublin has got propbably the hardest job with a successful intercounty football team and most clubs being dual clubs.

Although as I mentioned, the abolition of replays would help matters because the club championship takes place too late in the year and always has the feeling of being rushed. Abolishing replays and playing more games on Saturdays would allow the All Ireland final to be brought forward by 3 or 4 weeks and then we could run off the club championship in a more civilised manner. 
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: The Trap on January 10, 2017, 03:13:23 PM
You are lucky Hound....in Tyrone we don't even know when the first league game will be until a couple of weeks beforehand and then that will be cancelled if the Under 21s do well or the Seniors are in a National League play off game!
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: magpie seanie on January 10, 2017, 03:22:56 PM
That's great Hound but I'd suggest that it's not typical of most counties. Also, what % of league games would a senior team have their county players for?
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Jinxy on January 10, 2017, 03:32:30 PM
Dublin is great.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Crete Boom on January 10, 2017, 04:00:58 PM
Is the Dublin Championship not straight knockout?

One and done per say and you go into a B championship or something when you are knocked out which could be as early as April or May??

I must admit I only heard this on Off the Ball one night so I would be interested to know if this is at all true!!
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on January 10, 2017, 05:13:11 PM
Dublin Championship was straight knockout last year alright but may be changing this year. What Hound says is true, league postponements are a rarity. If both teams want to move a fixture it has to be within 7 days. If your pitch is unplayable you have to play at your opponents pitch. When the clocks go back senior and intermediate league games are played on Saturday evenings and all the junior divisions on Sunday mornings and afternoon. What is an afterthought though is the minor and the u21 championships, typically played in November after the adult championships.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: magpie seanie on January 10, 2017, 05:14:37 PM
And do clubs have their county players? In a county with a straight knockout the clubs really should have heir county lads for a high % of them.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on January 10, 2017, 05:19:35 PM
And do clubs have their county players? In a county with a straight knockout the clubs really should have heir county lads for a high % of them.

Here and there. Just had a quick look at my calendar from last year, of the 7 NFL weekends, there was club football scheduled on 4 of them weekends so there is 4 right there they wouldn't have been available for.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: galwayman on January 10, 2017, 05:26:47 PM
There is absolutely no reason to hold up league football due to the county game.
Play the games away during the summer every weekend.
I can't understand why this doesn't happen.
So what if clubs have to play league games without their county players?
It's the league. Championship is the primary competition.
In Galway certainly anyway the league has no bearing on a clubs championship grade.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Zulu on January 10, 2017, 08:50:01 PM
I find the reaction to this from some to be fairly odd. The sly digs at the GPA are tiresomely expected but if this is to be effective then it will have to become like the GPA. Anyone who thinks an organisation that is to represent tens of thousands of players in multiple counties with markedly different challenges without a large budget and professional leadership is bonkers. Unfortunately this body is required and I hope it's a success. The GPA was required for IC players and were dead right not to represent club players and we do need a club players association too who can concentrate on the club game.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: joemamas on January 10, 2017, 09:45:23 PM
Zulu,

Your point about the need for organizing is well made, however what exactly does the GPA stand for and who is it supposed to benefit, who really benefits from it, and lastly roughly what % of IC players truly benefit from it.

Loaded Q's maybe, but my antenna went up on this organization, a few years back when Mayo played NY in the Connacht Championship in NY. As far as I am aware, the GPA sent a retired Dublin player and a retired Kildare player out to NY as representatives. Now I don't begrudge them in one bit, as they sure put some serious time in on the field, but were there no retired players in the province of Connacht that could have been sent out. To me it smelt of eliteism. I hope I am wrong on this.

I totally understand where the CPA wants to go on this and I support them, and no to digress, but I hope it shows up the provincial councils for what they are when it comes to fixtures. Two months to play six games in some provinces, they could easily be played in half the time.
Throw in the tradition of The all-Ireland finals being played four weeks after a semi-final and it is a no brainer what needs to be done.

Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Zulu on January 10, 2017, 10:35:15 PM
Joe, the GPA represent the inter county player and were desperately needed at a time when the GAA treated players terribly. The currently pioneer educational and business programs for players as well as advising them on their commercial value which are all worthwhile programs for lads who give up so much to represent our counties. There has always been elitism in the GAA and looking after our elite players is a worthwhile investment. We need to compete in the modern real world not the world we'd like it to be.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: INDIANA on January 10, 2017, 10:36:58 PM
I find the reaction to this from some to be fairly odd. The sly digs at the GPA are tiresomely expected but if this is to be effective then it will have to become like the GPA. Anyone who thinks an organisation that is to represent tens of thousands of players in multiple counties with markedly different challenges without a large budget and professional leadership is bonkers. Unfortunately this body is required and I hope it's a success. The GPA was required for IC players and were dead right not to represent club players and we do need a club players association too who can concentrate on the club game.

The way forward is to exclude county players from club football. Then you have a completely uninterrupted club season.

And it will be the end game on this . Mark my words. This is just a temporary ripple in the pond.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: The Trap on January 10, 2017, 10:50:39 PM
How many players would choose to play for their county and not play for the club?
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Zulu on January 10, 2017, 10:54:31 PM
On another thread I've laid out a plan for a club and IC season. Now, not everyone may agree with it but I see no reason why we can't have two distinct seasons as long as we accept certain realities.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: INDIANA on January 10, 2017, 10:57:13 PM
On another thread I've laid out a plan for a club and IC season. Now, not everyone may agree with it but I see no reason why we can't have two distinct seasons as long as we accept certain realities.

Zulu the GAA is in competition with professional sports.

It cannot shorten the inter county season.

People need to start accepting the realities of the situation and leave Never Never Land to the CPA.

I support the movement but unfortunately the leaders are going to try and fight a battle they are never going to win

The goal is more games and a proper season for club players. Take the county players out and it's easily done
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: shark on January 10, 2017, 11:01:37 PM
On another thread I've laid out a plan for a club and IC season. Now, not everyone may agree with it but I see no reason why we can't have two distinct seasons as long as we accept certain realities.

Zulu the GAA is in competition with professional sports.

It cannot shorten the inter county season.

People need to start accepting the realities of the situation and leave Never Never Land to the CPA.

I support the movement but unfortunately the leaders are going to try and fight a battle they are never going to win

The goal is more games and a proper season for club players. Take the county players out and it's easily done

Take the county players out and then county teams begin to disappear. Players in at least 10 counties won't play for their county if it means not playing club. Could even be more.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: INDIANA on January 10, 2017, 11:06:18 PM
On another thread I've laid out a plan for a club and IC season. Now, not everyone may agree with it but I see no reason why we can't have two distinct seasons as long as we accept certain realities.

Zulu the GAA is in competition with professional sports.

It cannot shorten the inter county season.

People need to start accepting the realities of the situation and leave Never Never Land to the CPA.

I support the movement but unfortunately the leaders are going to try and fight a battle they are never going to win

The goal is more games and a proper season for club players. Take the county players out and it's easily done

Take the county players out and then county teams begin to disappear. Players in at least 10 counties won't play for their county if it means not playing club. Could even be more.

I doubt that very much. I haven't met many county players when asked " off the record" do they miss playing club football. The reality is playing club football at the end of the season is a pain in the arse for most of them.

It's great for PR to say they love playing for the club. After training for 6-7 months it's an imposition
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Zulu on January 10, 2017, 11:08:17 PM
On another thread I've laid out a plan for a club and IC season. Now, not everyone may agree with it but I see no reason why we can't have two distinct seasons as long as we accept certain realities.

Zulu the GAA is in competition with professional sports.

It cannot shorten the inter county season.

People need to start accepting the realities of the situation and leave Never Never Land to the CPA.

I support the movement but unfortunately the leaders are going to try and fight a battle they are never going to win

The goal is more games and a proper season for club players. Take the county players out and it's easily done

Take the county players out and then county teams begin to disappear. Players in at least 10 counties won't play for their county if it means not playing club. Could even be more.

I tend to agree Shark.

Indiana, the IC season I propose is 5 to 6 months long but all of it is high profile with multiple games and a highlight show every Saturday. The NFL is a world sporting behemoth and only lasts about 5 months. I'm not claiming my proposal is perfect but it's certainly better for competing with professional sports than the current one.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: The Trap on January 10, 2017, 11:09:15 PM
I think you are very wrong Indiana. I would say that even a county like Tyrone who are in the top 6 would struggle to get a team if this was the case........
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: INDIANA on January 10, 2017, 11:14:55 PM
I think you are very wrong Indiana. I would say that even a county like Tyrone who are in the top 6 would struggle to get a team if this was the case........

I doubt it. I'd love to see an anonymous questionnaire on this. I believe based on my experience the answers would be revealing.

I know several county players who really dislike it after 7 months hard training . For them they end up playing two separate seasons and its not fair

Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: INDIANA on January 10, 2017, 11:16:15 PM
On another thread I've laid out a plan for a club and IC season. Now, not everyone may agree with it but I see no reason why we can't have two distinct seasons as long as we accept certain realities.

Zulu the GAA is in competition with professional sports.

It cannot shorten the inter county season.

People need to start accepting the realities of the situation and leave Never Never Land to the CPA.

I support the movement but unfortunately the leaders are going to try and fight a battle they are never going to win

The goal is more games and a proper season for club players. Take the county players out and it's easily done

Take the county players out and then county teams begin to disappear. Players in at least 10 counties won't play for their county if it means not playing club. Could even be more.

I tend to agree Shark.

Indiana, the IC season I propose is 5 to 6 months long but all of it is high profile with multiple games and a highlight show every Saturday. The NFL is a world sporting behemoth and only lasts about 5 months. I'm not claiming my proposal is perfect but it's certainly better for competing with professional sports than the current one.

The GAA from a revenue perspective from it's sponsors and with advertising can't afford to shorten the season by two months.

Financial suicide. And that's why this won't get off the ground.

the horse bolted on this 10 years ago
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: shark on January 10, 2017, 11:19:59 PM
On another thread I've laid out a plan for a club and IC season. Now, not everyone may agree with it but I see no reason why we can't have two distinct seasons as long as we accept certain realities.

Zulu the GAA is in competition with professional sports.

It cannot shorten the inter county season.

People need to start accepting the realities of the situation and leave Never Never Land to the CPA.

I support the movement but unfortunately the leaders are going to try and fight a battle they are never going to win

The goal is more games and a proper season for club players. Take the county players out and it's easily done

Take the county players out and then county teams begin to disappear. Players in at least 10 counties won't play for their county if it means not playing club. Could even be more.

I doubt that very much. I haven't met many county players when asked " off the record" do they miss playing club football. The reality is playing club football at the end of the season is a pain in the arse for most of them.

It's great for PR to say they love playing for the club. After training for 6-7 months it's an imposition

I'm from a county that has won feck all, and will continue to win feck all. My club are possibly (I'm not certain) the biggest supplier of players to the senior county team in over the past 30 years. I know these guys extremely well. I've played with them, drank with them and gone to school with many of them. They (mostly) love playing for their county, but of all these guys over that period I can think of 2, maybe 3 (out of more than 30 on quick estimation) who would have chosen county over club.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: shark on January 10, 2017, 11:20:46 PM
On another thread I've laid out a plan for a club and IC season. Now, not everyone may agree with it but I see no reason why we can't have two distinct seasons as long as we accept certain realities.

Zulu the GAA is in competition with professional sports.

It cannot shorten the inter county season.

People need to start accepting the realities of the situation and leave Never Never Land to the CPA.

I support the movement but unfortunately the leaders are going to try and fight a battle they are never going to win

The goal is more games and a proper season for club players. Take the county players out and it's easily done

Take the county players out and then county teams begin to disappear. Players in at least 10 counties won't play for their county if it means not playing club. Could even be more.

I tend to agree Shark.

Indiana, the IC season I propose is 5 to 6 months long but all of it is high profile with multiple games and a highlight show every Saturday. The NFL is a world sporting behemoth and only lasts about 5 months. I'm not claiming my proposal is perfect but it's certainly better for competing with professional sports than the current one.

The GAA from a revenue perspective from it's sponsors and with advertising can't afford to shorten the season by two months.

Financial suicide. And that's why this won't get off the ground.

the horse bolted on this 10 years ago

And on that point, you are 100% correct. Unfortunately.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: sligoman2 on January 10, 2017, 11:22:49 PM
It will get off the ground if the players stick together.  No players no revenues - about time the gaa realized that players are humans not just a means of generating revenues.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Zulu on January 10, 2017, 11:22:59 PM
Why? If the NFL can why can't the GAA? It could be 6 months with far more big games than currently exists. The league element would mean that there would be football games like Dublin v Kerry, Mayo v Tyrone and hurling games like Waterford v Kilkenny and Tipp v Galway on RTE every weekend for two months. That's worth a lot of money for TV stations and ad revenue, then you've knockout after that every weekend and a match of the day type program every Saturday and Sunday, a preview/review weekend program midweek. I can't see how you can make a claim that the current format which ignores 70% of games is better than one which has maybe 10 high profile games every week.

Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Rossfan on January 10, 2017, 11:36:20 PM
How many players would choose to play for their county and not play for the club?
If they were to get half the € managers get......
The obvious solution is Club Leagues go ahead without Co players to ensure the club players get a regular programme of games.  Then separate  Club and Inter County Championship periods.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Ball Hopper on January 11, 2017, 12:41:36 AM
Each county should organise a Summer Fun League (the SFL???) for the non-county players.  Play it Thursday night or Friday night.  A game every week with a two week shutdown for holiday, say the first two week of August.  Start June 1, end Sept 1 is three full months.  10 games.

Made for player who just want to play a game with their lifelong friends and clubmates without the need for dieticians or S&C coaches.  Of course, a few players on every team will take it very seriously in prep for September/October full club fare, but that is fine too.  You would have the soccer and rugby lads returning for the summer and, who knows, maybe even staying for the county championship.

Win/Win?

Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: thewobbler on January 11, 2017, 07:20:23 AM
Each county should organise a Summer Fun League (the SFL???) for the non-county players.  Play it Thursday night or Friday night.  A game every week with a two week shutdown for holiday, say the first two week of August.  Start June 1, end Sept 1 is three full months.  10 games.

Made for player who just want to play a game with their lifelong friends and clubmates without the need for dieticians or S&C coaches.  Of course, a few players on every team will take it very seriously in prep for September/October full club fare, but that is fine too.  You would have the soccer and rugby lads returning for the summer and, who knows, maybe even staying for the county championship.

Win/Win?

You sir have a very romantic notion on life. The only thing missing from your vision is mermaids strumming harps.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Gizzy15 on January 11, 2017, 08:31:18 AM
Each county should organise a Summer Fun League (the SFL???) for the non-county players.  Play it Thursday night or Friday night.  A game every week with a two week shutdown for holiday, say the first two week of August.  Start June 1, end Sept 1 is three full months.  10 games.

Made for player who just want to play a game with their lifelong friends and clubmates without the need for dieticians or S&C coaches.  Of course, a few players on every team will take it very seriously in prep for September/October full club fare, but that is fine too.  You would have the soccer and rugby lads returning for the summer and, who knows, maybe even staying for the county championship.

Win/Win?

Slightly similar to this I have said for a while that League fixtures should be played in the 4 months March - June that will be both with and without county players. July and August see a lot of Holidays so instead of scrubbing this period or guilting amateurs into not taking a family holiday, county boards or divisional county boards can organise a reduced numbers if needed Summer league. have around 7 teams in each division and get around 6 fixtures in Hurling and football and if the league needs to be 11 aside or 13 aside so be it. September/October is then set for Championship. half the clubs in the country only get one round anyway, the weather is still relatively good and by 3 week in October County championships will be over with exception of Counties in AI Final. 8 Month season for club player except for those unlucky enough to win a county title.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: thewobbler on January 11, 2017, 09:00:50 AM
Right lads, you've been in the gym 3 times a week for 3 years. You spent January to March on the track and running up mountains. You've been off the drink since April. Today lads, today it's the 1st of July and all that hard work is about to pay off. Today we meet our old rivals the Cross-Community Lionesses in 9-a-side no contact football. It doesn't matter whether we win or lose. Lads, It's all about days like this. You will remember this day forever.


Would you pair ever wise to f**k up?
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on January 11, 2017, 09:55:35 AM
On another thread I've laid out a plan for a club and IC season. Now, not everyone may agree with it but I see no reason why we can't have two distinct seasons as long as we accept certain realities.

Zulu the GAA is in competition with professional sports.

It cannot shorten the inter county season.

People need to start accepting the realities of the situation and leave Never Never Land to the CPA.

I support the movement but unfortunately the leaders are going to try and fight a battle they are never going to win

The goal is more games and a proper season for club players. Take the county players out and it's easily done

Take the county players out and then county teams begin to disappear. Players in at least 10 counties won't play for their county if it means not playing club. Could even be more.

I doubt that very much. I haven't met many county players when asked " off the record" do they miss playing club football. The reality is playing club football at the end of the season is a pain in the arse for most of them.

It's great for PR to say they love playing for the club. After training for 6-7 months it's an imposition

That'd be only the top end I'd say Indiana, counties with a serious chance of lifting Sam. The vast, vast majority of players in leagues 2 to 4 would choose club over county if they had a serious chance of winning their county championship. I can't imagine the Dublin players were invigorated going straight into club championship after having no time to celebrate winning the All-Ireland last year. Paul Flynn (gpa secretary) choose to go away on a holiday over playing a Leinster intermediate semi-final for the club, their biggest game in years.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: magpie seanie on January 11, 2017, 09:59:15 AM
Interesting to see the GPA supporters mask slipping. The GPA has always been about getting paid and moving to a professional game by separating club and county. That is their goal and they will achieve it.....it's too late to beat them now. At least Indiana is honest about it.

I completely disagree with this and would hope it does not happen but I've accepted it will. In a way it might turn out to be better than the mess we currently have. Give the GAA back to the volunteers.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Keyboard Warrior on January 11, 2017, 10:01:25 AM
On another thread I've laid out a plan for a club and IC season. Now, not everyone may agree with it but I see no reason why we can't have two distinct seasons as long as we accept certain realities.

Zulu the GAA is in competition with professional sports.

It cannot shorten the inter county season.

People need to start accepting the realities of the situation and leave Never Never Land to the CPA.

I support the movement but unfortunately the leaders are going to try and fight a battle they are never going to win

The goal is more games and a proper season for club players. Take the county players out and it's easily done

Take the county players out and then county teams begin to disappear. Players in at least 10 counties won't play for their county if it means not playing club. Could even be more.

I tend to agree Shark.

Indiana, the IC season I propose is 5 to 6 months long but all of it is high profile with multiple games and a highlight show every Saturday. The NFL is a world sporting behemoth and only lasts about 5 months. I'm not claiming my proposal is perfect but it's certainly better for competing with professional sports than the current one.

The GAA from a revenue perspective from it's sponsors and with advertising can't afford to shorten the season by two months.

Financial suicide. And that's why this won't get off the ground.

the horse bolted on this 10 years ago

The voluntary organisation with all it's property paid off will struggle financially?

Spare us the waffle.

Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Jinxy on January 11, 2017, 10:09:04 AM
I think if the CPA gets off the ground and truly has a mandate to represent the views of the wider 'volunteer' association, then the GPA will start to look quite small in comparison.
The narrative will no longer simply consist of the GPA, provincial councils and GAA HQ deciding what's best for everyone, primarily based on financial considerations.
That's assuming people get off their arse and register, and in this day and age where taking 30 seconds to do something seems like a lot of effort to some people, it'll be interesting to see how many people have signed up over the next month or so.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Rossfan on January 11, 2017, 11:01:10 AM
I see GPA bashing is back in vogue this morning  ::)
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: five points on January 11, 2017, 11:02:49 AM
The voluntary organisation with all it's property paid off will struggle financially?

Of course it will. Croke Park will require massive capital reinvestment and possibly reconstruction in 20-odd years time. Parts of the stadium are now midway through their expected useful life of 40-odd years. The same will apply to stadiums around the country, some of which aren't even built yet (eg Casement) and others in a rickety state (eg Clones, Roscommon, Newbridge)  And the bills for coaching aren't going to get smaller as the years go on.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Owenmoresider on January 11, 2017, 11:07:34 AM
I see GPA bashing is back in vogue this morning  ::)
And Rossfan moaning about anyone who dare breathe ill about his beloved GPA with it  ::)
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Rossfan on January 11, 2017, 11:16:32 AM
I am not a member of or lover of or have any connection with or any interest in the GPA.
It's just that some here can't comment on any subject without bashing that organisation.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Owenmoresider on January 11, 2017, 11:21:49 AM
I am not a member of or lover of or have any connection with or any interest in the GPA.
It's just that some here can't comment on any subject without bashing that organisation.
But you can never resist sneering whenever criiticism of it is expressed here.

And that top line is a lot like the Shinner supporters who love to deny/deflect from/attack the sources of any criticism of them yet brazenly claim they're not Shinners.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Rossfan on January 11, 2017, 11:33:54 AM
So it's all Sinn Féin's fault???????
I see the Cork Chairman is opposed to playing AI Final by August weekend - on promotional grounds.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Owenmoresider on January 11, 2017, 12:02:25 PM
So it's all Sinn Féin's fault???????
I see the Cork Chairman is opposed to playing AI Final by August weekend - on promotional grounds.
I'm not sure where you managed to draw that conclusion from. I merely noted that the denial was similar, but then it's others here who are pushing the GPA agenda rather than yourself.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Zulu on January 11, 2017, 12:52:10 PM
So it's all Sinn Féin's fault???????
I see the Cork Chairman is opposed to playing AI Final by August weekend - on promotional grounds.
I'm not sure where you managed to draw that conclusion from. I merely noted that the denial was similar, but then it's others here who are pushing the GPA agenda rather than yourself.

Who's pushing the GPA agenda and what is it so we can all recognise when it's being pushed?
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: magpie seanie on January 11, 2017, 01:15:54 PM
I see GPA bashing is back in vogue this morning  ::)


Is stating the facts now known as "bashing"? If it is then I'm guilty as charged.

It would be more in your line to argue with me how I'm wrong that resort to some mealy mouthed like the above. Trouble is, I'm right.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Zulu on January 11, 2017, 01:25:24 PM
What facts have you stated?
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: The Trap on January 11, 2017, 01:49:02 PM
The Dubs on here are happy with how things are......they are winning Sams with their professional outfit, their players mostly (Connolly an honourable exception) don't give a f**k about club football, their clubs have players coming out of their ears and all is rosy in the garden.
They don't see what is going on in the rest of the country. Soon they will have very few teams to hammer on their way to total domination and there will be no fun in that!
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: joemamas on January 11, 2017, 02:06:24 PM
Zulu,

Your point about the need for organizing is well made, however what exactly does the GPA stand for and who is it supposed to benefit, who really benefits from it, and lastly roughly what % of IC players truly benefit from it.

Loaded Q's maybe, but my antenna went up on this organization, a few years back when Mayo played NY in the Connacht Championship in NY. As far as I am aware, the GPA sent a retired Dublin player and a retired Kildare player out to NY as representatives. Now I don't begrudge them in one bit, as they sure put some serious time in on the field, but were there no retired players in the province of Connacht that could have been sent out. To me it smelt of eliteism. I hope I am wrong on this.

I totally understand where the CPA wants to go on this and I support them, and no to digress, but I hope it shows up the provincial councils for what they are when it comes to fixtures. Two months to play six games in some provinces, they could easily be played in half the time.
Throw in the tradition of The all-Ireland finals being played four weeks after a semi-final and it is a no brainer what needs to be done.

Can anybody have a stab at answering the above.
I went on their website today for the first time, and my first impression is that the PR person is doing one hell of a job.
Just out of curiosity, I clicked on USA link, mother of God, what a load of BS, promoting games in the US, yeah right, promoting fundraising. Great photo op in times square  ::)
Such a load of sh*it, Hurricane Sandy photo op in Breezey point, how long did they spend there helping to rebuild ??.

Zulu, I am sure deep down you are a genuine GAA person, but is it not difficult to skeptical of the whole lot of it.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: magpie seanie on January 11, 2017, 02:43:21 PM
What facts have you stated?


I know you can read so I won't copy and paste. Go on, deny that they're facts. Tell me they're opinions and try to tie me down in semantics rather than argue the case. Anyone who doesn't believe those assertions to be true is deluded or else just won't admit it.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Gizzy15 on January 11, 2017, 02:44:45 PM
Right lads, you've been in the gym 3 times a week for 3 years. You spent January to March on the track and running up mountains. You've been off the drink since April. Today lads, today it's the 1st of July and all that hard work is about to pay off. Today we meet our old rivals the Cross-Community Lionesses in 9-a-side no contact football. It doesn't matter whether we win or lose. Lads, It's all about days like this. You will remember this day forever.


Would you pair ever wise to f**k up?

But that day can be September 1st, and through July and August everyone can fight for their place during the (9-a-side no contact football) as you put it. I see nothing wrong with it.  you sound like Rory's Stories ffs. Take a day off
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Rossfan on January 11, 2017, 03:12:53 PM
I see GPA bashing is back in vogue this morning  ::)


Is stating the facts now known as "bashing"? If it is then I'm guilty as charged.

It would be more in your line to argue with me how I'm wrong that resort to some mealy mouthed like the above. Trouble is, I'm right.

List the "facts" please or get over yourself.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: The Trap on January 11, 2017, 03:48:55 PM
So some people think touch GAA in the summer would sort the thing out????
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Zulu on January 11, 2017, 05:36:04 PM
What facts have you stated?


I know you can read so I won't copy and paste. Go on, deny that they're facts. Tell me they're opinions and try to tie me down in semantics rather than argue the case. Anyone who doesn't believe those assertions to be true is deluded or else just won't admit it.

If you've posted any facts in this thread I haven't read them despite being able to read.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: OgraAnDun on January 11, 2017, 05:41:23 PM
If there was a complete division between county and club sides, with no county players ever playing for their clubs until retirement from the county game, would many people even bother going to county matches? I know I certainly wouldn't.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Zulu on January 11, 2017, 05:44:02 PM
Zulu,

Your point about the need for organizing is well made, however what exactly does the GPA stand for and who is it supposed to benefit, who really benefits from it, and lastly roughly what % of IC players truly benefit from it.

Loaded Q's maybe, but my antenna went up on this organization, a few years back when Mayo played NY in the Connacht Championship in NY. As far as I am aware, the GPA sent a retired Dublin player and a retired Kildare player out to NY as representatives. Now I don't begrudge them in one bit, as they sure put some serious time in on the field, but were there no retired players in the province of Connacht that could have been sent out. To me it smelt of eliteism. I hope I am wrong on this.

I totally understand where the CPA wants to go on this and I support them, and no to digress, but I hope it shows up the provincial councils for what they are when it comes to fixtures. Two months to play six games in some provinces, they could easily be played in half the time.
Throw in the tradition of The all-Ireland finals being played four weeks after a semi-final and it is a no brainer what needs to be done.

Can anybody have a stab at answering the above.
I went on their website today for the first time, and my first impression is that the PR person is doing one hell of a job.
Just out of curiosity, I clicked on USA link, mother of God, what a load of BS, promoting games in the US, yeah right, promoting fundraising. Great photo op in times square  ::)
Such a load of sh*it, Hurricane Sandy photo op in Breezey point, how long did they spend there helping to rebuild ??.

Zulu, I am sure deep down you are a genuine GAA person, but is it not difficult to skeptical of the whole lot of it.

See Joe, this is the type of thing that gets my back up about the anti-GPA stuff. You say that 'deep down' I'm a genuine a GAA man but I'm GAA through and through. However, some people seem very quick to climb up on the high moral ground and label people as lesser GAA men simply because they support an IC players representative body.

Myself and Rossfan (from my reading of his posts) are exactly the same, genuine GAA men who go from one end of the year to the other in the real world hardly thinking or talking about the GPA. However, we defend them here because some of the criticism of them is outlandish and often, unsubstantiated. I think they are doing some good work for a very important section of the GAA so good luck to them. The challenges I face working at the coalface are neither helped nor hindered by the GPA so if they help lads with depression or upskill them for better job opportunities that's fine by me.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Zulu on January 11, 2017, 05:44:38 PM
If there was a complete division between county and club sides, with no county players ever playing for their clubs until retirement from the county game, would many people even bother going to county matches? I know I certainly wouldn't.

Tens of thousands I'd imagine.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: OgraAnDun on January 11, 2017, 05:50:45 PM
If there was a complete division between county and club sides, with no county players ever playing for their clubs until retirement from the county game, would many people even bother going to county matches? I know I certainly wouldn't.

Tens of thousands I'd imagine.

I don't think so, when a lot of the best players (outside of the metropolis) playing only for their club, the great link between clubs and the county would be lost and a lot of supporters with it.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Zulu on January 11, 2017, 05:59:49 PM
Sorry you said county players only playing for their club after retirement so I was basing it on most county players picking county. If that was the case then the crowds would still be huge. If a lot of the better players picked club it would be a bit different but the county teams challenging for top honours would still get massive crowds.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Avondhu star on January 12, 2017, 01:48:03 PM
The Dubs on here are happy with how things are......they are winning Sams with their professional outfit, their players mostly (Connolly an honourable exception) don't give a f**k about club football, their clubs have players coming out of their ears and all is rosy in the garden.
They don't see what is going on in the rest of the country. Soon they will have very few teams to hammer on their way to total domination and there will be no fun in that!
I wouldnt necessarily agree with that. Our club had one player on the Dublin panel fof about four years. He was never a first pick and was used during league games and early championship games with maybe the occasional 15 minutes as a sub.
We lost Div 1 status in the league by three league points. Our best player was kept from us by Dublin management and I have no doubt his availability would have kept us in Div.1. Now in Div 2 for three years and the same thing is going on. The plsyer doesnt seem to mind as he has the "Dublin player" tag with all the goodies that goes with it. The club supporters have given up even considering him part of the club panel now
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 13, 2017, 02:07:31 AM
Quote
what exactly does the GPA stand for and who is it supposed to benefit

It started, supposedly, as a player welfare body but it seems to have gotten a bit carried away with itself. It now seems to see itself as an equal partner with the GAA rather than a subset of it, hence the branding of certain events as joint productions between the GAA and the GPA.

The Hurricane Sandy business was one of its more cynical moves. They sent a squad to New York to do some work for a good cause, but by God they made sure there was a full TV camera crew there to cover it. When they returned to NY later to reap the rewards from the resulting goodwill they openly bragged about how they were going to raise a million bucks with their "star-studded" gala. I don't know if they made it to a million or not but if the GAA top brass was throwing around language like that the pitchforks-and-torches crowd would be out in force giving out about the "Grab All Association."

And don't get me started on the Hurling Super Elevens business. Coming up with an alternative sport with professional trappings and as part of a networking event with all the big shots and big donors, while a crumb is thrown from the table to the local GAA units who were never even notified that the whole thing was happening. The North American GAA board was completely ignored in that little episode, they only heard about it through the media like everyone else. Imagine the GPA waltzing into your county with big plans to promote hurling and the local county board doesn't get a look in... it's a bit like that.

I haven't been following them closely of late, but I still view them with a certain amount of suspicion. If they thought they could start a professional hurling league in America they probably would, but the only thing stopping them is their members live on the other side of the Atlantic.

What grinds my gears about the GPA is their smash-and-grab approach to the USA. They see the place as an ATM from which they can withdraw money to line their pockets, while the people actually promoting the games in the US are given table scraps at best and completely ignored at worst.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Jinxy on January 13, 2017, 09:58:53 AM
Yeah, that hurling super elevens thing was an embarrassment.
Largely because of the contrived 'melee' that had the American fans so entertained, reinforcing every 'Oirish' stereotype.
Showing more fight in an exhibition game than you do in an All-Ireland final is classic 'Galway hurling'.  ::)
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: magpie seanie on January 13, 2017, 10:10:45 AM
Quote
what exactly does the GPA stand for and who is it supposed to benefit

It started, supposedly, as a player welfare body but it seems to have gotten a bit carried away with itself. It now seems to see itself as an equal partner with the GAA rather than a subset of it, hence the branding of certain events as joint productions between the GAA and the GPA.

The Hurricane Sandy business was one of its more cynical moves. They sent a squad to New York to do some work for a good cause, but by God they made sure there was a full TV camera crew there to cover it. When they returned to NY later to reap the rewards from the resulting goodwill they openly bragged about how they were going to raise a million bucks with their "star-studded" gala. I don't know if they made it to a million or not but if the GAA top brass was throwing around language like that the pitchforks-and-torches crowd would be out in force giving out about the "Grab All Association."

And don't get me started on the Hurling Super Elevens business. Coming up with an alternative sport with professional trappings and as part of a networking event with all the big shots and big donors, while a crumb is thrown from the table to the local GAA units who were never even notified that the whole thing was happening. The North American GAA board was completely ignored in that little episode, they only heard about it through the media like everyone else. Imagine the GPA waltzing into your county with big plans to promote hurling and the local county board doesn't get a look in... it's a bit like that.

I haven't been following them closely of late, but I still view them with a certain amount of suspicion. If they thought they could start a professional hurling league in America they probably would, but the only thing stopping them is their members live on the other side of the Atlantic.

What grinds my gears about the GPA is their smash-and-grab approach to the USA. They see the place as an ATM from which they can withdraw money to line their pockets, while the people actually promoting the games in the US are given table scraps at best and completely ignored at worst.


Two things.

Firstly - the GPA is only following on from the GAA in regard to viewing the US as a cash cow. So I couldn't single them out for that.

Secondly - their attitude to the people who do the grassroots work here in Ireland is the same so don't feel left out in the US! 
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: joemamas on January 13, 2017, 01:36:46 PM
Quote
what exactly does the GPA stand for and who is it supposed to benefit

It started, supposedly, as a player welfare body but it seems to have gotten a bit carried away with itself. It now seems to see itself as an equal partner with the GAA rather than a subset of it, hence the branding of certain events as joint productions between the GAA and the GPA.

The Hurricane Sandy business was one of its more cynical moves. They sent a squad to New York to do some work for a good cause, but by God they made sure there was a full TV camera crew there to cover it. When they returned to NY later to reap the rewards from the resulting goodwill they openly bragged about how they were going to raise a million bucks with their "star-studded" gala. I don't know if they made it to a million or not but if the GAA top brass was throwing around language like that the pitchforks-and-torches crowd would be out in force giving out about the "Grab All Association."

And don't get me started on the Hurling Super Elevens business. Coming up with an alternative sport with professional trappings and as part of a networking event with all the big shots and big donors, while a crumb is thrown from the table to the local GAA units who were never even notified that the whole thing was happening. The North American GAA board was completely ignored in that little episode, they only heard about it through the media like everyone else. Imagine the GPA waltzing into your county with big plans to promote hurling and the local county board doesn't get a look in... it's a bit like that.

I haven't been following them closely of late, but I still view them with a certain amount of suspicion. If they thought they could start a professional hurling league in America they probably would, but the only thing stopping them is their members live on the other side of the Atlantic.

What grinds my gears about the GPA is their smash-and-grab approach to the USA. They see the place as an ATM from which they can withdraw money to line their pockets, while the people actually promoting the games in the US are given table scraps at best and completely ignored at worst.


Two things.

Firstly - the GPA is only following on from the GAA in regard to viewing the US as a cash cow. So I couldn't single them out for that.

Secondly - their attitude to the people who do the grassroots work here in Ireland is the same so don't feel left out in the US!


Glad I am not the only one who views their hurricane Sandy trip as BS.
They should be absolutely ashamed of themselves for even attempting to capitalize on the back of people who lost everything, and I mean everything.
This is a fact, a lot of people in that area still have not even received insurance payments on their ruined properties. If the GPA were genuine, they would have donated a large portion of their fundraiser to those people. But photo ops seemed to be more the order of the day. Once again check out their website and click on USA.

One other note, being a grass roots member in the US is due to logistics, a bit more difficult than being a grass root member in Ireland. That is why their about their fundraising in the US is all the more questionable. The money raised was not pumped back into promoting games in the USA.

Last Q, anybody know did them employ a professional fundraiser for their "Gala" at the Plaza and how much were they paid. ??

Q for the people who support the GPA on this website, any way you can address the specific points raised about their antics in the USA.

To be fair to the GAA, to say that they view the US as a cash cow is totally inaccurate.
While in the past their purse string were never really open to sending a lot of money over to the USA, they never looked for any money whatsoever.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Jinxy on January 13, 2017, 02:05:01 PM
I'd say Seanie was referring to the likes of Kerry going over there for fundraising dinners etc.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on January 13, 2017, 02:33:54 PM
Yeah, that hurling super elevens thing was an embarrassment.
Largely because of the contrived 'melee' that had the American fans so entertained, reinforcing every 'Oirish' stereotype.
Showing more fight in an exhibition game than you do in an All-Ireland final is classic 'Galway hurling'.  ::)

A weird dig to get in but whatever.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Zulu on January 13, 2017, 02:42:47 PM
Quote
what exactly does the GPA stand for and who is it supposed to benefit

It started, supposedly, as a player welfare body but it seems to have gotten a bit carried away with itself. It now seems to see itself as an equal partner with the GAA rather than a subset of it, hence the branding of certain events as joint productions between the GAA and the GPA.

The Hurricane Sandy business was one of its more cynical moves. They sent a squad to New York to do some work for a good cause, but by God they made sure there was a full TV camera crew there to cover it. When they returned to NY later to reap the rewards from the resulting goodwill they openly bragged about how they were going to raise a million bucks with their "star-studded" gala. I don't know if they made it to a million or not but if the GAA top brass was throwing around language like that the pitchforks-and-torches crowd would be out in force giving out about the "Grab All Association."

And don't get me started on the Hurling Super Elevens business. Coming up with an alternative sport with professional trappings and as part of a networking event with all the big shots and big donors, while a crumb is thrown from the table to the local GAA units who were never even notified that the whole thing was happening. The North American GAA board was completely ignored in that little episode, they only heard about it through the media like everyone else. Imagine the GPA waltzing into your county with big plans to promote hurling and the local county board doesn't get a look in... it's a bit like that.

I haven't been following them closely of late, but I still view them with a certain amount of suspicion. If they thought they could start a professional hurling league in America they probably would, but the only thing stopping them is their members live on the other side of the Atlantic.

What grinds my gears about the GPA is their smash-and-grab approach to the USA. They see the place as an ATM from which they can withdraw money to line their pockets, while the people actually promoting the games in the US are given table scraps at best and completely ignored at worst.


Two things.

Firstly - the GPA is only following on from the GAA in regard to viewing the US as a cash cow. So I couldn't single them out for that.

Secondly - their attitude to the people who do the grassroots work here in Ireland is the same so don't feel left out in the US!


Glad I am not the only one who views their hurricane Sandy trip as BS.
They should be absolutely ashamed of themselves for even attempting to capitalize on the back of people who lost everything, and I mean everything.
This is a fact, a lot of people in that area still have not even received insurance payments on their ruined properties. If the GPA were genuine, they would have donated a large portion of their fundraiser to those people. But photo ops seemed to be more the order of the day. Once again check out their website and click on USA.

One other note, being a grass roots member in the US is due to logistics, a bit more difficult than being a grass root member in Ireland. That is why their about their fundraising in the US is all the more questionable. The money raised was not pumped back into promoting games in the USA.

Last Q, anybody know did them employ a professional fundraiser for their "Gala" at the Plaza and how much were they paid. ??

Q for the people who support the GPA on this website, any way you can address the specific points raised about their antics in the USA.

To be fair to the GAA, to say that they view the US as a cash cow is totally inaccurate.
While in the past their purse string were never really open to sending a lot of money over to the USA, they never looked for any money whatsoever.

Joe, is it ok for Mayo, Kerry and whoever else to go to the US and fundraise money that will never be spent on the grassroots in those countries? What's the difference between that and the GPA fundraising?
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Zulu on January 13, 2017, 02:53:16 PM
Quote
what exactly does the GPA stand for and who is it supposed to benefit

It started, supposedly, as a player welfare body but it seems to have gotten a bit carried away with itself. It now seems to see itself as an equal partner with the GAA rather than a subset of it, hence the branding of certain events as joint productions between the GAA and the GPA.

The Hurricane Sandy business was one of its more cynical moves. They sent a squad to New York to do some work for a good cause, but by God they made sure there was a full TV camera crew there to cover it. When they returned to NY later to reap the rewards from the resulting goodwill they openly bragged about how they were going to raise a million bucks with their "star-studded" gala. I don't know if they made it to a million or not but if the GAA top brass was throwing around language like that the pitchforks-and-torches crowd would be out in force giving out about the "Grab All Association."

And don't get me started on the Hurling Super Elevens business. Coming up with an alternative sport with professional trappings and as part of a networking event with all the big shots and big donors, while a crumb is thrown from the table to the local GAA units who were never even notified that the whole thing was happening. The North American GAA board was completely ignored in that little episode, they only heard about it through the media like everyone else. Imagine the GPA waltzing into your county with big plans to promote hurling and the local county board doesn't get a look in... it's a bit like that.

I haven't been following them closely of late, but I still view them with a certain amount of suspicion. If they thought they could start a professional hurling league in America they probably would, but the only thing stopping them is their members live on the other side of the Atlantic.

What grinds my gears about the GPA is their smash-and-grab approach to the USA. They see the place as an ATM from which they can withdraw money to line their pockets, while the people actually promoting the games in the US are given table scraps at best and completely ignored at worst.


Two things.

Firstly - the GPA is only following on from the GAA in regard to viewing the US as a cash cow. So I couldn't single them out for that.

Secondly - their attitude to the people who do the grassroots work here in Ireland is the same so don't feel left out in the US!

Again, I'd love you to point to the utopian time when every unit of the GAA all got along working in harmony for a better world. I'd have some concerns about the GPA and the future of the GAA but I defend them here because a lot of the criticism here is unsubstantiated nonsense that comes from people who strike me as the kind who would criticise them if they used their funding to cure cancer.

Atypical grassroots clubman GAAboard poster - "I'll give them credit for curing cancer but how many hurls and helmets could that money have bought for underage clubs? I also haven't seen them say club players can get the medicine, is it just for inter county players I wonder? I haven't seen them explicitly say we can all get it so I'm going to assume the worst about them and tell everyone as a fact that it is only for inter county players, the elitist b**tards"
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Syferus on January 13, 2017, 02:56:59 PM
Keep fighting the little man on all fronts, Zulu warrior.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Zulu on January 13, 2017, 03:08:25 PM
Keep fighting the little man on all fronts, Zulu warrior.

Does that make sense in your first language?
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: magpie seanie on January 13, 2017, 03:41:17 PM
Quote
what exactly does the GPA stand for and who is it supposed to benefit

It started, supposedly, as a player welfare body but it seems to have gotten a bit carried away with itself. It now seems to see itself as an equal partner with the GAA rather than a subset of it, hence the branding of certain events as joint productions between the GAA and the GPA.

The Hurricane Sandy business was one of its more cynical moves. They sent a squad to New York to do some work for a good cause, but by God they made sure there was a full TV camera crew there to cover it. When they returned to NY later to reap the rewards from the resulting goodwill they openly bragged about how they were going to raise a million bucks with their "star-studded" gala. I don't know if they made it to a million or not but if the GAA top brass was throwing around language like that the pitchforks-and-torches crowd would be out in force giving out about the "Grab All Association."

And don't get me started on the Hurling Super Elevens business. Coming up with an alternative sport with professional trappings and as part of a networking event with all the big shots and big donors, while a crumb is thrown from the table to the local GAA units who were never even notified that the whole thing was happening. The North American GAA board was completely ignored in that little episode, they only heard about it through the media like everyone else. Imagine the GPA waltzing into your county with big plans to promote hurling and the local county board doesn't get a look in... it's a bit like that.

I haven't been following them closely of late, but I still view them with a certain amount of suspicion. If they thought they could start a professional hurling league in America they probably would, but the only thing stopping them is their members live on the other side of the Atlantic.

What grinds my gears about the GPA is their smash-and-grab approach to the USA. They see the place as an ATM from which they can withdraw money to line their pockets, while the people actually promoting the games in the US are given table scraps at best and completely ignored at worst.


Two things.

Firstly - the GPA is only following on from the GAA in regard to viewing the US as a cash cow. So I couldn't single them out for that.

Secondly - their attitude to the people who do the grassroots work here in Ireland is the same so don't feel left out in the US!

Again, I'd love you to point to the utopian time when every unit of the GAA all got along working in harmony for a better world. I'd have some concerns about the GPA and the future of the GAA but I defend them here because a lot of the criticism here is unsubstantiated nonsense that comes from people who strike me as the kind who would criticise them if they used their funding to cure cancer.

Atypical grassroots clubman GAAboard poster - "I'll give them credit for curing cancer but how many hurls and helmets could that money have bought for underage clubs? I also haven't seen them say club players can get the medicine, is it just for inter county players I wonder? I haven't seen them explicitly say we can all get it so I'm going to assume the worst about them and tell everyone as a fact that it is only for inter county players, the elitist b**tards"


Ah come on Zulu - its far from curing cancer they're at. You do your argument no favours by introducing ridiculous stuff like that.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Zulu on January 13, 2017, 03:49:20 PM
It's obviously an exaggerated example Seanie but I was making the point that some of the criticism of them is similarly exaggerated. The point I was making was that some people would look at something good they've done and criticise on some side point.

At the end of the day, the GPA are required and do some good things. Do they do some daft things? Yeah, of course but so do the GAA, so does any organisation that is trying things. All groups deserve to be scrutinised and held to account but it should be fair and in the case of the GPA that isn't always the case IMO.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: ha ha derry on January 13, 2017, 04:11:49 PM
It's obviously an exaggerated example Seanie but I was making the point that some of the criticism of them is similarly exaggerated. The point I was making was that some people would look at something good they've done and criticise on some side point.

At the end of the day, the GPA are required and do some good things. Do they do some daft things? Yeah, of course but so do the GAA, so does any organisation that is trying things. All groups deserve to be scrutinised and held to account but it should be fair and in the case of the GPA that isn't always the case IMO.

Why are they called Gaelic Players Association ? Should it not be Gaelic County Players Association ?
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Rossfan on January 13, 2017, 04:45:52 PM
They'll hardly change their name now anyway.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 13, 2017, 04:52:20 PM


the GPA is only following on from the GAA in regard to viewing the US as a cash cow. 

This is incorrect. The GAA does not use the US as a cash cow. The GAA invests in games development and facilities development in the states. They do not come out here organizing fundraisers and going home with a wad of cash.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 13, 2017, 04:55:05 PM
Joe, is it ok for Mayo, Kerry and whoever else to go to the US and fundraise money that will never be spent on the grassroots in those countries? What's the difference between that and the GPA fundraising?

Some individual county boards have been known to come out here for fundraising activities too. And no, that's not right either. Money raised here should be reinvested here, particularly money earned from selling broadcasting rights, but that's another matter.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 13, 2017, 04:56:39 PM
Atypical grassroots clubman GAAboard poster - "I'll give them credit for curing cancer but how many hurls and helmets could that money have bought for underage clubs? I also haven't seen them say club players can get the medicine, is it just for inter county players I wonder? I haven't seen them explicitly say we can all get it so I'm going to assume the worst about them and tell everyone as a fact that it is only for inter county players, the elitist b**tards"

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Zulu on January 13, 2017, 05:10:24 PM
It's obviously an exaggerated example Seanie but I was making the point that some of the criticism of them is similarly exaggerated. The point I was making was that some people would look at something good they've done and criticise on some side point.

At the end of the day, the GPA are required and do some good things. Do they do some daft things? Yeah, of course but so do the GAA, so does any organisation that is trying things. All groups deserve to be scrutinised and held to account but it should be fair and in the case of the GPA that isn't always the case IMO.

Why are they called Gaelic Players Association ? Should it not be Gaelic County Players Association ?

I don't know, but is that an important issue?
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Zulu on January 13, 2017, 05:16:21 PM
Joe, is it ok for Mayo, Kerry and whoever else to go to the US and fundraise money that will never be spent on the grassroots in those countries? What's the difference between that and the GPA fundraising?

Some individual county boards have been known to come out here for fundraising activities too. And no, that's not right either. Money raised here should be reinvested here, particularly money earned from selling broadcasting rights, but that's another matter.

Why should money raised there be reinvested there? I'm involved in international level GAA like you but if Mayo come to Britain or the US and ask expats to help fund their team that's up to the individuals to decide how they want to spend their money. Unfortunately, the money the GPA, Kerry, Mayo and others raise abroad probably wouldn't be given to local GAA units anyway.

The GPA and counties are raising money abroad and spending it at home and I've little issue with that as much of what we get abroad is from money generated at home so it's a two way street. I'd like to see local businesses support us more but we (the international units) need to earn that funding too.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Zulu on January 13, 2017, 05:16:58 PM
Atypical grassroots clubman GAAboard poster - "I'll give them credit for curing cancer but how many hurls and helmets could that money have bought for underage clubs? I also haven't seen them say club players can get the medicine, is it just for inter county players I wonder? I haven't seen them explicitly say we can all get it so I'm going to assume the worst about them and tell everyone as a fact that it is only for inter county players, the elitist b**tards"

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Nonsense.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 13, 2017, 06:08:26 PM
Joe, is it ok for Mayo, Kerry and whoever else to go to the US and fundraise money that will never be spent on the grassroots in those countries? What's the difference between that and the GPA fundraising?

Some individual county boards have been known to come out here for fundraising activities too. And no, that's not right either. Money raised here should be reinvested here, particularly money earned from selling broadcasting rights, but that's another matter.

Why should money raised there be reinvested there? I'm involved in international level GAA like you but if Mayo come to Britain or the US and ask expats to help fund their team that's up to the individuals to decide how they want to spend their money. Unfortunately, the money the GPA, Kerry, Mayo and others raise abroad probably wouldn't be given to local GAA units anyway.

The GPA and counties are raising money abroad and spending it at home and I've little issue with that as much of what we get abroad is from money generated at home so it's a two way street. I'd like to see local businesses support us more but we (the international units) need to earn that funding too.

If county boards and the GPA were to team up with local international GAA units, jointly organize fundraisers, and then split the takings in an equitable manner then I'd be okay with that. But not if the international units only get a few crumbs from the table.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Zulu on January 13, 2017, 06:27:58 PM
Sure I'd love that too but say you own a construction company in New York and I've a load of pubs there. We can choose to support out local units if we want, however, if we don't want to do that but will give our county board $10,000 each towards helping our county team prepare that's just life.

As frustrating as it is for the likes of you and me I don't think you can turn around and tell the GPA, county boards or businesses that if you're fundraising here you need to give us something. You couldn't enforce it for a start and if I'm a business man I can support what I like and if I want to give $10,000 to my county I don't expect them to get $9000 and $1000 go to the New York board who I don't want to support. If I do want to give them money I can do that separately.

Again, it's ridiculous to criticise the GPA or counties for tapping into revenue sources that are free to support them or not and can also support local units if they choose to.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Syferus on January 13, 2017, 08:15:06 PM
Joe, is it ok for Mayo, Kerry and whoever else to go to the US and fundraise money that will never be spent on the grassroots in those countries? What's the difference between that and the GPA fundraising?

Some individual county boards have been known to come out here for fundraising activities too. And no, that's not right either. Money raised here should be reinvested here, particularly money earned from selling broadcasting rights, but that's another matter.

They only give the money because they have more interest in the game back home. That's not the counties' fault.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Rossfan on January 16, 2017, 11:10:35 PM
I hear young Dermot to be the new CEO of the GPA.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: mouview on January 17, 2017, 12:09:09 AM
RTE headline says it's some lad called Early. Never heard of him myself...
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Syferus on January 17, 2017, 12:53:51 AM
Leadership runs in the family.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: rrhf on January 17, 2017, 06:04:02 AM
I hope he is there to break the GPA up. No need for it.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Rossfan on January 17, 2017, 09:30:27 AM
He's  not and they're here to stay.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Owenmoresider on January 17, 2017, 10:18:08 AM
He's  not and they're here to stay.
At least you have more reason to be an apologist for them now.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Rossfan on January 17, 2017, 10:59:57 AM
As I said before I'm not a member or supporter of them and I'm certainly not apologising for them.
Why would they need an "Apologist"anyway?
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: magpie seanie on January 17, 2017, 11:17:42 AM
Because lots of people don't agree with them or trust them. But you knew that.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Zulu on January 17, 2017, 11:34:05 AM
That's not being an apologist, that's pointing out that there is a lot of misinformed unfair criticism by a lot of people who wouldn't give them credit no matter what they did, but you knew that.

What exactly have the GPA done in the last two years that is notably objectionable? Have the done any good things in the past two years?
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Rossfan on January 17, 2017, 11:45:21 AM
I think it's something in the water round Shliigo Zulu. ::)
Or else all that heading the ball.
The paranoia is most amusing.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: screenexile on January 17, 2017, 12:27:15 PM
That's not being an apologist, that's pointing out that there is a lot of misinformed unfair criticism by a lot of people who wouldn't give them credit no matter what they did, but you knew that.

What exactly have the GPA done in the last two years that is notably objectionable? Have the done any good things in the past two years?

Taken money from the GAA that could be used to supplement the player Injury scheme for all players.

Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Zulu on January 17, 2017, 01:04:48 PM
Has GAA money been used on things other than the injury fund and if so, are those other things also objectionable? Are the GAA now broke and unable to put money into the injury fund? If our injury fund doesn't cover our players adequately then should we all not pay a bit more in to have one that does?
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: screenexile on January 17, 2017, 02:23:09 PM
Has GAA money been used on things other than the injury fund and if so, are those other things also objectionable? Are the GAA now broke and unable to put money into the injury fund? If our injury fund doesn't cover our players adequately then should we all not pay a bit more in to have one that does?

1. The GPA get €5m a year and we don't know how it is spent

2. The Injury scheme has a huge shortfall and ordinary small clubs that are struggling to keep going are getting nailed with higher indemnity and injury premiums

The GAA seem more interested in capital projects and the GPA than they are in the Club player and this is patently wrong. I agree at the time the GPA was required but it's turned into something more sinister since they achieved their original goals!!
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Zulu on January 17, 2017, 02:47:34 PM
1. I think we have a fair idea of how it's spent

    - The current mileage rate of just under 42 pence is being increased to over 54 pence with a pot of just over £1m being provided annually for the new overall nutrition allowance for players

     - Under the scheme, some £167,000 will be available annually to deal with what is termed "surgical interventions" for former players.

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/gaelic-games/36887737

2. I'd favour providing more support for player's injury schemes but getting an extra £10 per year from all playing members would generate a couple of million without breaking anyone financially. There's also money there with or without the GPA funding so if it's required then why don't county boards push for this extra support?

3. Capital projects are vital, even if some have dubious merit. However, ground developments like PUC in Cork are heavily linked to the rugby world cup so the GAA got significant government investment for that.

Using words like 'sinister' in reference to the GPA just underlines the unfounded hyperbole that lads too frequently descend into when discussing the GPA.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: magpie seanie on January 17, 2017, 02:56:52 PM
So what is the Sports Council money for? Why are Intercounty players are getting a 28.5% increase in their mileage - I thought the "additional expenses" from the Sports Council was supposed to cover their requirements?

Or is it a grant?
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: magpie seanie on January 17, 2017, 02:59:55 PM
Also - if someone could quantify how much this 28.5% increase in mileage will cost we might have an idea where the €5.2M per annum is going. Otherwise we only know about €1,167,000 from the above.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on January 24, 2017, 12:06:40 PM
Liking more and more how the CPA are going about their business, their recently released statement reads:

CPA chairman Micheal Briody said today: "We are calling on Páraic Duffy to park his proposals pending proper consultation. We have had a very positive response since our official launch. Over 15,000 club players have registered so far. Their expectation is that the GAA will step up to the plate and address the fixtures issue for all players. If the current proposals are passed, there will be no realistic possibility to change until the 2019 season at the earliest. By then it could be too late. This needs sorted now.”

He continued:  "We have had several informal discussions with the director-general Páraic Duffy at which we have exchanged views. We appreciate greatly Páraic taking time to meet us and recognise the legitimacy of the CPA. We have written to him to formally notify him, on behalf of club players, of three matters that need immediate attention:

1 CPA Recognition

We are calling upon and appealing to County Boards to vote to officially recognise the CPA at the forthcoming Congress. We are at the stage as an Association where we need to consider what's right for all our members, not who's right. Given the nature of Congress we believe it is important that the motion proposed by Wexford and Tipperary County Boards is heard at Congress and given due consideration without the possibility of procedural interference or impairment. We are writing to County Boards this week inviting their mandated support to achieve the necessary support. The CPA is committed to working with and supporting County Boards. Agreement on fixtures will make their work easier.



2 Fixtures Proposal

The CPA is today announcing that it cannot support the fixtures proposals brought forward by Páraic Duffy. We are therefore calling on Páraic to put his ideas on hold pending further consideration. We respect Páraic’s position over the last 9 years as Director General and his immense experience as a professional GAA official.  However we cannot support the proposals on three main grounds:

· They do not fully take on board the need for an agreed fixtures programme for club players, or take account of legitimate concerns raised including club player welfare and well being, holidays and closed season.

· They are detrimental towards hurling, and in their presented form are creating an unwelcome imbalance in the Association, especially at a time when hurling nationally needs renewed focus. Both games must be given parity of esteem. This is non negotiable.

· The proposals pre date the establishment of the Club Players’ Association. The view expressed to us by club players who are the majority playing population, is that club fixtures need to be fully considered in any proposals going forward.

3 Fixtures Think Tank

To this end we call for the immediate establishment of a Fixtures Think Tank to meet, take on board and consult fixtures experts in the GAA, and if necessary take evidence from other sports. Their remit will be to report back within a fixed timeframe with a programme and principles that create uniformity and help county boards who are unfairly often in the firing line. Their findings will outline the way forward to make our Association fit for purpose and serve the GAA for the next stage of its evolution and the challenges we all face.

We must remember the articles of our Association when first established by Cusack, Davin and the founding fathers:

"Davin spoke first about the plan to start a new organisation for sport. He described how many Irish games were losing popularity and dying out in some cases in the countryside and appealed for a revival.

‘The Gaelic Athletic Association for the Preservation and Cultivation of National Pastimes’ was chosen as the official name but it soon became known familiarly by the shortened title of the GAA.

It is time again to preserve and cultivate our games for all our members.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: magpie seanie on January 24, 2017, 12:44:44 PM
Excellent piece. Sensible and non threatening but firm. This matter should be deferred and a special congress could be called on this issue for October or earlier if it is felt the process could be completed by then.

15,000 members is a good statement in such a short time.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: thewobbler on January 24, 2017, 12:59:43 PM
I would point out that:

- a fixtures think tank is a waste of time. There are only two options available: compress the county season significantly, or exclude county players from club activity during the county season. Any other proposal  will be detrimental to player welfare... a phrase they keep using but also keep using in a context that suits them I.e. County player welfare is not so important.

- hurling doesn't need a "renewed national focus". The basic fundamental truth is that for a large number of gaels, hurling just doesn't do it for them. Market, coach, force equality, do whatever you like, but you're pissing against the wind trying to force culture on people who don't want it. On top of this, in 2017 the life of a dual player just isn't attractive in the slightest. Stack that up against dwindling rural communities and I always question do people want to promote either sport or no sport? For if you to try to drive both through, in all too many cases it's an overhead and segmentation of resources that's just beyond most clubs.

I'm actually getting less convinced by every announcement.

As and when the CPA make a proposal and not just some noise, I might change my mind. But for now they're just causing trouble.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Hound on January 24, 2017, 01:32:30 PM
I would point out that:

- a fixtures think tank is a waste of time. There are only two options available: compress the county season significantly, or exclude county players from club activity during the county season. Any other proposal  will be detrimental to player welfare... a phrase they keep using but also keep using in a context that suits them I.e. County player welfare is not so important.

- hurling doesn't need a "renewed national focus". The basic fundamental truth is that for a large number of gaels, hurling just doesn't do it for them. Market, coach, force equality, do whatever you like, but you're pissing against the wind trying to force culture on people who don't want it. On top of this, in 2017 the life of a dual player just isn't attractive in the slightest. Stack that up against dwindling rural communities and I always question do people want to promote either sport or no sport? For if you to try to drive both through, in all too many cases it's an overhead and segmentation of resources that's just beyond most clubs.

I'm actually getting less convinced by every announcement.

As and when the CPA make a proposal and not just some noise, I might change my mind. But for now they're just causing trouble.
Exactly. Reminds me of a Joe Brolly article. Any good points get overshadowned by the nonsense thrown in.

Saying that it devalues the hurling championship is laughable. The hurling championship is unchanged!!

And this hurling being equal is "Non negotiable". So given it's club players they are supposed to represent, therefore, presumably its going to be non-negotiable that every county puts hurling on a equal footing with gaelic. Yeah, I'm sure that will get great support in Mayo, Kerry, Tyrone, Donegal, etc.

The GAA should tell them to feck right off until they come up with solid proposals, instead of the constant whining which is all we've heard so far.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Hardy on January 24, 2017, 01:49:44 PM
The GAA should tell them to ... come up with solid proposals

I don't have an opinion to express at this stage on the tactics of the CPA (though I support their agenda in principle) but that's what P. Duffy has effectively told them in his annual report released today according to RTÉ Sport.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: The Trap on January 24, 2017, 02:26:16 PM
Hound and Wobbler, 15000 players are right behind these guys and are hoping that they will stand up and fight for their rights. Surprised there aren't more than 15000 at this stage. I am really behind the CPA and think you will really it swing into action when the club season stutters to a start-stop-start of sorts!
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: magpie seanie on January 24, 2017, 02:56:43 PM
Interesting but not surprising negative reaction from P. Duffy. The animosity is clear from the outset. I'd say in hindsight he'll be annoyed at himself that he let the mask slip. Probably annoyed they stole his thunder on the day of his big annual report.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: thewobbler on January 24, 2017, 03:55:52 PM
Hound and Wobbler, 15000 players are right behind these guys and are hoping that they will stand up and fight for their rights. Surprised there aren't more than 15000 at this stage. I am really behind the CPA and think you will really it swing into action when the club season stutters to a start-stop-start of sorts!

If there's one thing that we can learn from 20 years of the Simpsons, it's that gathering together a lynch mob isnt a difficult thing to do.


The GAA is probably the most democratic sporting organisation in the world. Literally a man on a pub stool (usually a social club) can fundamentally change the structures of the organisation and the flows of its games, providing he has the interest in pursuing his ideals. He won't need bribery, just drive.

So the formation of the CPA union begs the question.... what exactly has it been formed to protect? For the ability for club players to control their destiny already exists. But as yet these tens of thousands of club players have not yet been able to muster a suitable proposal for club fixtures.

This ultimately is because there is no solution suitable to everyone.

So the only tangible purpose of the CPA has to be the power to effect a strike until the "club player" gains the imbalance of power.

A strike in the GAA. I get wound up at the thought of it.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: magpie seanie on January 24, 2017, 04:01:29 PM
Hound and Wobbler, 15000 players are right behind these guys and are hoping that they will stand up and fight for their rights. Surprised there aren't more than 15000 at this stage. I am really behind the CPA and think you will really it swing into action when the club season stutters to a start-stop-start of sorts!

If there's one thing that we can learn from 20 years of the Simpsons, it's that gathering together a lynch mob isnt a difficult thing to do.


The GAA is probably the most democratic sporting organisation in the world. Literally a man on a pub stool (usually a social club) can fundamentally change the structures of the organisation and the flows of its games, providing he has the interest in pursuing his ideals. He won't need bribery, just drive.

So the formation of the CPA union begs the question.... what exactly has it been formed to protect? For the ability for club players to control their destiny already exists. But as yet these tens of thousands of club players have not yet been able to muster a suitable proposal for club fixtures.

This ultimately is because there is no solution suitable to everyone.

So the only tangible purpose of the CPA has to be the power to effect a strike until the "club player" gains the imbalance of power.

A strike in the GAA. I get wound up at the thought of it.


Why was the GPA needed so?
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Esmarelda on January 24, 2017, 04:11:51 PM
Duffy's proposals, as outlined in the report that accompanied them, are a step in the right direction for all, including club players. Doing something more dramatic is less likely to pass at congress.

Why don't the CPA lobby to have the proposals passed, thereby improving their members' situation, and then spend the next couple of years trying to improve it?

By not putting the current proposal through they (the CPA) will be stuck with the current situation for at least an additional year, and probably longer.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: thewobbler on January 24, 2017, 04:16:35 PM
Seanie. The GPA was needed because while the GAA was going through the roof in terms of both revenues and player commitments, the GAA was doing very little to acknowledge this fact. It became quite costly in terms of time and money (meals, fuel) for a player to commit to county ball.

It has gone too far now and i would love its wings clipped, as it's simply not pragmatic for county boards to fulfil the expenses for every county team, especially those that are keener on the rewards than effort.

That said, it was a relatively easy problem to fix. Players needed acknowledgement that the increase in their efforts saw increase revenues which should mean some share of it all. Uncomplicated.

The CPA's raisin d'etre is a much more complex problem as it's largely a cultural problem that it aspires to fix I.e. how can we play both club and county ball in the summer months when clubs will refuse to play without their County players.

I predict they'll spend 12-18 months throwing fuel on this fire, continually trying to make it a central council problem when it's not. Then they'll call a strike. And they'll have no terms for the strike apart from to show central council they mean business.

That's the worry. Until they provide a clear, practical and achievable solution, then it's horseshit combined with smoke and mirrors.

Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: longballin on January 24, 2017, 04:24:49 PM
Seanie. The GPA was needed because while the GAA was going through the roof in terms of both revenues and player commitments, the GAA was doing very little to acknowledge this fact. It became quite costly in terms of time and money (meals, fuel) for a player to commit to county ball.

It has gone too far now and i would love its wings clipped, as it's simply not pragmatic for county boards to fulfil the expenses for every county team, especially those that are keener on the rewards than effort.

That said, it was a relatively easy problem to fix. Players needed acknowledgement that the increase in their efforts saw increase revenues which should mean some share of it all. Uncomplicated.

The CPA's raisin d'etre is a much more complex problem as it's largely a cultural problem that it aspires to fix I.e. how can we play both club and county ball in the summer months when clubs will refuse to play without their County players.

I predict they'll spend 12-18 months throwing fuel on this fire, continually trying to make it a central council problem when it's not. Then they'll call a strike. And they'll have no terms for the strike apart from to show central council they mean business.

That's the worry. Until they provide a clear, practical and achievable solution, then it's horseshit combined with smoke and mirrors.

It was the threat of a strike made GAA capitulate to GPA
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: magpie seanie on January 24, 2017, 04:29:14 PM
I agree with you on most of that except I do not foresee a "strike" in any way, shape or form and would totally oppose such a ridiculous notion. I also firmly believe the problems of intercounty players could have been resolved through the proper channels of the Association which I think you agree with.

The CPA needs to come up with proposals or a way forward, I agree there. I think these are genuine people looking to put a solution in place though so I'd disagree with the assertion that it's horseshit.

I also believe the GAA's democratic structures have been well and truly corrupted in recent times. It's almost impossible for anyone except those at the top to get changes through because county boards are absolutely under Croke Park's control, with a few exceptions. If Croke Park don't want something it gets beaten or pulled.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: magpie seanie on January 24, 2017, 04:30:20 PM
Seanie. The GPA was needed because while the GAA was going through the roof in terms of both revenues and player commitments, the GAA was doing very little to acknowledge this fact. It became quite costly in terms of time and money (meals, fuel) for a player to commit to county ball.

It has gone too far now and i would love its wings clipped, as it's simply not pragmatic for county boards to fulfil the expenses for every county team, especially those that are keener on the rewards than effort.

That said, it was a relatively easy problem to fix. Players needed acknowledgement that the increase in their efforts saw increase revenues which should mean some share of it all. Uncomplicated.

The CPA's raisin d'etre is a much more complex problem as it's largely a cultural problem that it aspires to fix I.e. how can we play both club and county ball in the summer months when clubs will refuse to play without their County players.

I predict they'll spend 12-18 months throwing fuel on this fire, continually trying to make it a central council problem when it's not. Then they'll call a strike. And they'll have no terms for the strike apart from to show central council they mean business.

That's the worry. Until they provide a clear, practical and achievable solution, then it's horseshit combined with smoke and mirrors.

It was the threat of a strike made GAA capitulate to GPA


I think you're correct but two wrongs don't make a right and also if club players went on strike the GAA wouldn't lose any corporate sponsors so Croke Park won't give a fcuk.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: thewobbler on January 24, 2017, 04:46:39 PM
Sadly folks the whole purpose of a union is to be able to cause disruption should their terms not be met. The inbuilt threat of a strike was actually enough in the GPA's case.

There's very little a CPA can do Seanie apart from go on strike.

It's for from impossible to get a motion to Congress either. The hardest part is getting it though your own county... for let's be honest, on the majority of issues, any given county is a pretty solid snapshot of how the overall organisation thinks.

County boards represent and are made up of their clubs. Which brings me back to how I started on this thread a few months ago.

If the clubs actually had a will to fulfil fixtures all summer long, a will "to get on with it", then much of the current malaise would go away.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: manfromdelmonte on January 24, 2017, 05:18:59 PM
Sadly folks the whole purpose of a union is to be able to cause disruption should their terms not be met. The inbuilt threat of a strike was actually enough in the GPA's case.

There's very little a CPA can do Seanie apart from go on strike.

It's for from impossible to get a motion to Congress either. The hardest part is getting it though your own county... for let's be honest, on the majority of issues, any given county is a pretty solid snapshot of how the overall organisation thinks.

County boards represent and are made up of their clubs. Which brings me back to how I started on this thread a few months ago.

If the clubs actually had a will to fulfil fixtures all summer long, a will "to get on with it", then much of the current malaise would go away.
county boards biggest source of income is the gate from club games
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: In hiding on January 24, 2017, 05:35:09 PM
Sadly folks the whole purpose of a union is to be able to cause disruption should their terms not be met. The inbuilt threat of a strike was actually enough in the GPA's case.

There's very little a CPA can do Seanie apart from go on strike.

It's for from impossible to get a motion to Congress either. The hardest part is getting it though your own county... for let's be honest, on the majority of issues, any given county is a pretty solid snapshot of how the overall organisation thinks.

County boards represent and are made up of their clubs. Which brings me back to how I started on this thread a few months ago.

If the clubs actually had a will to fulfil fixtures all summer long, a will "to get on with it", then much of the current malaise would go away.

i think this is an incredibly arrogant opinion. If your club had 4 or 5 county footballers would you be happy enough for your senior team "to just get on with it" as you put it. If you would be happy enough then helping your club footballers be successful doesn't seem to be a priority for you. If teams were made play away without their county men, how many fringe panellists would walk away from the county panel ?
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: thewobbler on January 24, 2017, 05:40:08 PM
Sadly folks the whole purpose of a union is to be able to cause disruption should their terms not be met. The inbuilt threat of a strike was actually enough in the GPA's case.

There's very little a CPA can do Seanie apart from go on strike.

It's for from impossible to get a motion to Congress either. The hardest part is getting it though your own county... for let's be honest, on the majority of issues, any given county is a pretty solid snapshot of how the overall organisation thinks.

County boards represent and are made up of their clubs. Which brings me back to how I started on this thread a few months ago.

If the clubs actually had a will to fulfil fixtures all summer long, a will "to get on with it", then much of the current malaise would go away.
county boards biggest source of income is the gate from club games

I'm genuinely not sure of the point you're trying to make... but I'd expect that your county board is propped up by fundraising and sponsorship, and there's a healthy chance you generate more in league fees than you do from club gate receipts.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: thewobbler on January 24, 2017, 05:44:10 PM
Sadly folks the whole purpose of a union is to be able to cause disruption should their terms not be met. The inbuilt threat of a strike was actually enough in the GPA's case.

There's very little a CPA can do Seanie apart from go on strike.

It's for from impossible to get a motion to Congress either. The hardest part is getting it though your own county... for let's be honest, on the majority of issues, any given county is a pretty solid snapshot of how the overall organisation thinks.

County boards represent and are made up of their clubs. Which brings me back to how I started on this thread a few months ago.

If the clubs actually had a will to fulfil fixtures all summer long, a will "to get on with it", then much of the current malaise would go away.

i think this is an incredibly arrogant opinion. If your club had 4 or 5 county footballers would you be happy enough for your senior team "to just get on with it" as you put it. If you would be happy enough then helping your club footballers be successful doesn't seem to be a priority for you. If teams were made play away without their county men, how many fringe panellists would walk away from the county panel ?

We've been there and done that in Down. It was annoying, but we played football all summer long and people were generally okay about it.



You're clearly in the camp who are quite happy to ask high quality players to serve two masters throughout the summer. Play twice a week and train 5 times a week. Or else play a condensed high octane county championship then be expected to give all and do likewise for the club immediately after.

Which means player welfare isn't high on your agenda.

I'd prefer to be arrogant, thanks.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: In hiding on January 24, 2017, 06:43:23 PM
Sadly folks the whole purpose of a union is to be able to cause disruption should their terms not be met. The inbuilt threat of a strike was actually enough in the GPA's case.

There's very little a CPA can do Seanie apart from go on strike.

It's for from impossible to get a motion to Congress either. The hardest part is getting it though your own county... for let's be honest, on the majority of issues, any given county is a pretty solid snapshot of how the overall organisation thinks.

County boards represent and are made up of their clubs. Which brings me back to how I started on this thread a few months ago.

If the clubs actually had a will to fulfil fixtures all summer long, a will "to get on with it", then much of the current malaise would go away.

i think this is an incredibly arrogant opinion. If your club had 4 or 5 county footballers would you be happy enough for your senior team "to just get on with it" as you put it. If you would be happy enough then helping your club footballers be successful doesn't seem to be a priority for you. If teams were made play away without their county men, how many fringe panellists would walk away from the county panel ?

We've been there and done that in Down. It was annoying, but we played football all summer long and people were generally okay about it.



You're clearly in the camp who are quite happy to ask high quality players to serve two masters throughout the summer. Play twice a week and train 5 times a week. Or else play a condensed high octane county championship then be expected to give all and do likewise for the club immediately after.

Which means player welfare isn't high on your agenda.

I'd prefer to be arrogant, thanks.
Clearly in the camp.  There is that arrogance again.
My biggest issue is that county players in Tyrone (can't speak for any other county), finish a tough campaign with the county and then are rushed straight into club championship. That gap between competitions can only be increased by shortening the county season. Your argument that county players should be left to county football only from November until possibly August or September won't work in an amateur game. As you know, county players are also club players and enjoy playing football with their brothers, cousins and friends. No one is asking for players of any quality to train 5 times a week or play twice a week. What I am asking for is system whereby the best players are available to play for both club and county in important games and given adequate time to prepare. Currently its only a club championship immediately after county because a 32 team knockout competition takes 20 weeks to run
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: The Trap on January 24, 2017, 09:30:36 PM
If the CPA were forced eventually to call a strike then the GAA would be greatly affected as county players are club players and I am sure most have joined the CPA. Would they walk past their club mates to play for the county? I don't think they would. The county game would be seriously affected, revenues massively down and the top brass would have to listen.
Let's hope it doesn't come to that but be arrogant about the CPA at your peril. Those like the wobbler who are only county followers could find out how important the clubs are yet!
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: thewobbler on January 24, 2017, 09:40:50 PM
If the CPA were forced eventually to call a strike then the GAA would be greatly affected as county players are club players and I am sure most have joined the CPA. Would they walk past their club mates to play for the county? I don't think they would. The county game would be seriously affected, revenues massively down and the top brass would have to listen.
Let's hope it doesn't come to that but be arrogant about the CPA at your peril. Those like the wobbler who are only county followers could find out how important the clubs are yet!

Lol. I'm as close to that description as Down are to winning an All Ireland.

Having an open enough mind to understand what's good for county players is becoming a real illness at a lot of clubs. Hopefully I can avoid that disease.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: The Trap on January 24, 2017, 09:52:16 PM
well I suppose the county v club issue doesn't really affect down people as it is usually all over by JUne apart from 2010..........or because Killop put club first.......
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Hound on January 25, 2017, 08:04:01 AM
Good article by Sean Moran today

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/se%C3%A1n-moran-cpa-approach-to-championship-reform-is-puzzling-1.2949160

Quote
CPA approach to championship reform is puzzling

Asked on his deathbed to renounce Satan, the man in the anecdote says: “this is no time to be making enemies”. For an organisation that was launched to unanimous goodwill the newly launched Club Players’ Association (CPA) haven’t been reticent about taking issue with other stakeholders within the GAA.

Despite a welcoming message on its formation from the Gaelic Players’ Association, the latter was described from the top table at the CPA launch as “a disaster for the GAA in general”.

Then for all the courteous acknowledgement of director general Páraic Duffy’s role in recognising their fledgling organisation and his engagement with them, the CPA’s decision to make public their opposition to his championship reform proposals on the day that he launches his annual report might be seen as either unfortunate or aggressive timing.

Duffy didn’t appear unduly concerned during his media conference in Croke Park on Tuesday morning, pointing out that they weren’t his proposals at this stage, having been endorsed and promoted by Central Council.

It can be argued that if they are sufficiently concerned about the proposals, then the timing of their announcement isn’t the most important consideration but from an observer’s perspective it’s hard to work out the CPA’s thinking. After all, some measure of diplomacy might be advisable given that there is another item on the congress agenda that affects them even more directly - motions to recognise their new organisation.

Congress delegates will in some cases be already wary about the prospect of another players’ body setting up - no matter how laudable its aims - without that organisation calling within weeks of its launch for motions to be withdrawn from the clár because they pre-date the CPA’s establishment.

Put another way it’s hard enough to get things through congress without making delegates jumpy.

Under the Duffy proposals the All-Ireland finals would have to be played in August, leaving September free for club activity. But the CPA is already on record as saying that this doesn’t go far enough with association founder and secretary Declan Brennan adding that he personally would like the All-Irelands concluded a month earlier.

The point appears to be that if what are seen as the limited improvement of the Duffy reforms get the go-ahead, driving more radical proposals won’t be possible for a number of years.

Yet is this realistic?

Duffy was sceptical. “They say that if these proposals are passed, there’ll be no change until 2019 at the earliest. By then it could be too late. This needs to be sorted now. If you want to sort it now, why would you park it? The two things appear a little bit contradictory. Now means this year’s Congress.”

A year ago a proposal to bring the All-Irelands forward by two weeks failed to get the necessary majority. It didn’t fail by much, attracting the support of 61 per cent of delegates but for the 39 per cent opposed, the main argument was that the loss of September - described by one opponent as “Gaelic games month in Ireland” - would be a major blow to the GAA’s promotional capacity.

How likely it would be to expect support for effectively vacating August as well is - at best - open to question.

The CPA’s substantive concerns about the actual round-robin format proposed by Duffy for the quarter-finals of the All-Ireland football championship focus on the additional matches even though the format is linked to reducing the length of the season.

That’s a matter for discussion but another principal argument is that the idea is “detrimental towards hurling,” is fairly tenuous when the round-robin format would add just one weekend to the football quarter-finals.

The All-Ireland hurling semi-finals would each be played on the same weekend as a round of football matches but this isn’t unusual - last August, the drawn Kilkenny-Waterford semi-final was the day after a double bill of football quarter-finals without that diluting any of the rapturous reaction.

Anyone present at the launch of the CPA would readily have accepted the association’s bona fides and the clarity with which the impact of the fixtures crisis on clubs was expressed as well as the potential for a well-organised group to help maintain a focus on the situation is obvious.

If there is a reservation, however, it relates to what can be seen as an over-emphasis on the power of Croke Park to remedy this with a top-down policy. If it were possible to effect this, it would have been done by now and a long time ago.

For example, when a raft of proposals went before last year’s congress with a view to ameliorating the fixtures’ problem from the point of view of both burnout and club schedules, it had originated in a survey conducted on Duffy’s initiative of no fewer than SEVEN reports completed in the previous 12 years by an array of committees, work groups and task forces.

At one point during the CPA launch it was suggested that Croke Park be in charge of fixtures for the entire country - something that no amateur sports organisation would be in a position to implement.

In Monday’s statement there was further evidence of this approach in the reference to the proposed fixtures think tank, whose “remit will be to report back within a fixed time-frame with a programme and principles that create uniformity and help county boards who are unfairly often in the firing line.”

It is county boards who are charged with providing an adequate schedule of matches and yet in some cases at the drop of a hat suspend club fixtures. It is county boards who have the power to regulate the season in an optimal or at least more satisfactory fashion - as Aaron Kernan of the CPA explained was the case in his own county of Armagh.

The CPA’s proposed ‘Fixtures Think Tank’ can consult and confer with the GAA to construct a platform of proposals on which counties can base sustainable club schedules but it can only be a template, which will have to be implemented locally.

Ideas at national level have never been the problem; implementation in the counties has. Taking issue with proposed reforms “that don’t go far enough” won’t lessen the need to organise on the ground and confront the problem at source.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: magpie seanie on January 25, 2017, 10:05:26 AM
Sadly folks the whole purpose of a union is to be able to cause disruption should their terms not be met. The inbuilt threat of a strike was actually enough in the GPA's case.

There's very little a CPA can do Seanie apart from go on strike.

It's for from impossible to get a motion to Congress either. The hardest part is getting it though your own county... for let's be honest, on the majority of issues, any given county is a pretty solid snapshot of how the overall organisation thinks.

County boards represent and are made up of their clubs. Which brings me back to how I started on this thread a few months ago.

If the clubs actually had a will to fulfil fixtures all summer long, a will "to get on with it", then much of the current malaise would go away.


In Sligo there are hefty fines imposed if fixtures are not fulfilled. More clubs have one or no county players so it suits them so anyone producing county players has no choice but to "get on with it". Then you're rushed into the championship with no break to try an prepare a team by integrating players you haven't had all year. Clubs are punished for producing county players which Wobbler seems happy enough with.

Club football and hurling is not just the backbone - it's the entire body of the GAA. The intercounty game is the cherry on top but sadly the tail is very much wagging the dog (apologies for multiple mixed metaphors!!).
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on January 25, 2017, 10:06:15 AM
I can take or leave Sean Moran. Kieran Shannon is usually on the money.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/kieran-shannon/the-gaa-needs-2020-vision-440657.html (http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/kieran-shannon/the-gaa-needs-2020-vision-440657.html)

KIERAN SHANNON: The GAA needs 2020 vision
   
Wednesday, January 25, 2017By Kieran Shannon
It was impossible not to have some empathy and even sympathy for Páraic Duffy yesterday morning.


Hours before facing the national media in Croke Park, the GAA’s director general would have learned the Club Players Association had called on him to withdraw his blueprint for a reformatted football championship ahead of Congress next month.

Duffy put an awful lot of thought – and indeed imagination – into drafting that proposal. He put even more time and thought into advancing a strident case for it, with the Croke Park press office issuing a slickly- presented 40-page document for all interested parties illustrating how the new fixtures could be rolled out and impressively answering some concerns or criticisms his proposal might prompt.

In recent months he’s travelled all around the country, meeting county boards and other relevant bodies. No wonder he described himself as being “disappointed”, whatever about “surprised”, by the CPA’s call to basically shelve his proposals.
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Think of when or if you were a college student and being told that thesis you invested so much time and energy into should be “parked”, probably never to be marked or approved. You wouldn’t like it. Actually, you’d be quite thick about it, a bit like Duffy was yesterday.

But the CPA are right. He should withdraw it. Or if he doesn’t, it should be defeated.

Leave aside the CPA for a moment. The GPA has just appointed a new chief executive, Dermot Earley. They could not have appointed a more respectable and measured individual. At his first press conference in the role Earley made it clear the biggest issue for him would be helping devise a significant change to the football championship structure. He would be canvassing players for their views. His own personal opinion was Duffy’s proposal didn’t go far enough.

Clearly, Earley and the body he represents want to revisit the championship format, regardless of what happens at Congress next month. So surely it would be better for them to have some more time to consult or be consulted instead of Duffy’s proposal being pushed and rushed through and institutionalising another ad-hoc measure for them and all of us to be burdened with?

Take Duffy’s proposed Super Eight format – our term, not his – where All-Ireland quarter- finals are replaced by two round-robin groups of four teams. If Duffy’s proposal is passed at Congress next month, the GPA and the GAA and everyone else are tied – married – to that Super Eight format for at least five years; even if there were to be further adjustments to the championship format in the intervening years, it would be deemed too soon to judge the success of that Super Eight format.

Yet such a series of games would take a month to complete, when right now the CPA are internally considering the possibility of a schedule of inter-county games in which all counties would play the same number of games up to the All Ireland semi-final stages. That’s the other thing: just as Earley has just been appointed, the CPA has just been founded. A fundamental premise it and the GAA has to establish is whether there should be separate seasons for the inter-county game and the club championship.

Many CPA members are in favour of such a demarcation. Paudie Butler isn’t, instead favouring something like how rugby has a club window followed by an international one followed by a club one again. (The journalist and Cuala hurler Shane Stapleton is of a similar viewpoint, yesterday tweeting an outline of how it could work. February – inter-county provincial competitions. March – club only. April-May – All-Ireland series with two groups of seven in hurling, four groups of eight in football. June – club only. July to mid-August – All-Ireland quarter-finals, semi-finals, finals. September to mid- November – club only.)

It’s a necessary – and healthy – dialogue the CPA has to have with its own members and the GAA itself. Yet, in a way, Duffy is already restricting that debate by implying it doesn’t really matter; if his proposal is passed, then his way is the way it’ll have to be.There’s a more fundamental reason why Duffy’s proposal should be parked. You can’t just review and alter the senior football championship format in isolation because of how it impacts on so much else. The bigger picture needs to be looked at. Virtually every competitive structure needs to be looked at.

At the moment the Hurling Development Committee is not just looking at ways to improve and reformat the senior hurling championship but a complete vision for the game, from when a lad goes into a local development squad right through to playing senior hurling with his county. Instead of tweaking this competition and this competition, they’re looking at an overall holistic approach to the game: what do we want for that young lad?

At the moment, if he’s playing Fitzgibbon and senior inter-county hurling, he’s being dragged every which way. The Munster Council is telling his county still have to fulfil a Waterford Crystal game. Derek McGrath has pointed out the current league format overburdens young players involved in third-level competitions. Should there be league hurling in February? Should there be any league hurling at all? Would championship hurling be better off being played on a round-robin format?

Recently Colin Ryan outlined one of the reasons why he’s enjoying playing soccer this year instead of committing another year to the Clare hurlers.

“There is no three-month build-up and three-week post-mortem; when the game is over, we know we have another one the following week, so win or lose, we move on quickly,” he explained to the Sunday Independent’s Marie Crowe.

One of the key learning points the HDC have taken from the Celtic Challenge for U17 players is players, coaches and administrators prefer having a schedule of games in which they know when they’re playing, who they’re playing and when they’re playing. It’s why they’re likely to recommend some form of round-robin system within the provinces.

Duffy’s proposal has been a worthwhile discussion document, further advancing and legitimising the idea of a more condensed season in which the All-Ireland finals would be played in August. But instead of trying to railroad it through, he would be best taking another piece of advice from the CPA. Set up a fixtures think tank, a high-powered, over-arching committee.

Have Earley there representing the GPA. Have, say, Liam Griffin, the fixtures co-ordinator for the CPA, a man who will look to improve the county game and not just the club game, and as someone who both managed and played for his county footballers as well as hurlers, appreciates both codes.

Have representation from third-level. Have someone representing the provincial councils but on the understanding the provincial councils are there to serve the game and the competitions are not there just to serve the provincial councils.

Ask basic questions. Can we reform the football championship without looking at the league? What is the purpose of the league in 2017? Are we still working off the assumption it is basically warm-up for championship or that for many counties it is just as important as championship?

Can we guarantee a better series of meaningful games for all county players, when Duffy’s proposal advocates that 16 football counties are finished by the second week of June? Challenge all assumptions. The primary reason we had a knockout championship for over 100 years wasn’t because the founding members of the GAA had a considered debate about the respective merits of a do-or-die format and that of a more league-based, round-robin system.

It was largely because transport was so limited in those early days. Does that apply now? The GAA needs a 2020 vision. Better to take another few months to see that bigger, better picture rather than institutionalising the ad-hoc once again.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: magpie seanie on January 25, 2017, 10:12:21 AM
Excellent common sense piece. Duffy's ego and commercial needs will ensure the "Super Eights" get rammed through though.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on January 25, 2017, 10:35:31 AM
Yeah I think Duffy has lost touch. He's trying to keep so many plates spinning in the air (many of them started by the GPA) that he's completely forgotten what the association is supposed to stand for.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Owenmoresider on January 25, 2017, 11:06:03 AM
Excellent common sense piece. Duffy's ego and commercial needs will ensure the "Super Eights" get rammed through though.
Yep, Duffy has a lot to answer for in how he has conducted his job since taking over, the difference between him and his predecessor is stark. He also of course has McKenna whispering in his ear and no doubt will dance to whatever tune is suggested there.

Good piece by Shannon though, this all needs to be teased out rather than bulldozed through.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Rossfan on January 25, 2017, 11:22:04 AM
Has the "Special Congress" idea of previous years been abandoned?
I seem to recall a few to discuss hurley stuff championship structures.
Can the same not be done for football?
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: whiskeysteve on January 25, 2017, 11:53:21 AM
I have seen posters on here call for the abolition of replays as a measure to ease fixture congestion.

I would agree with this and further suggest that as means of deciding games still drawn at the end of extra time, that quite simply the last team to have scored is deemed the victor. No penalties nor special rules and there would be great excitement in teams having to push on for a 2 point lead to give them any margin at all.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Dubhaltach on January 25, 2017, 10:37:45 PM
While Kieran Shannon's 'bigger, better picture' is laudable, it's not based in any practical reality. If a simple motion to push the All-Ireland finals back 2 weeks couldn't get through congress last year, how does he expect a radical 2020 vision to come even close? The current proposals free up the month of September for club and gives us more meaningful matches in August, played in under-used provincial venues. It's as good as we'll get for now.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Jinxy on January 26, 2017, 09:41:20 AM
Brian Cody slams 'crazy' inter-county calendar and throws his weight behind CPA proposals


http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/brian-cody-slams-crazy-intercounty-calendar-and-throws-his-weight-behind-cpa-proposals-35399102.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/brian-cody-slams-crazy-intercounty-calendar-and-throws-his-weight-behind-cpa-proposals-35399102.html)

Other than Andy McEntee, have any intercounty football managers had much to say about the club/county fixtures issue?
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: five points on January 26, 2017, 09:55:42 AM
If the clubs actually had a will to fulfil fixtures all summer long, a will "to get on with it", then much of the current malaise would go away.

Nail on head.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Lar Naparka on January 26, 2017, 09:59:18 AM
Brian Cody slams 'crazy' inter-county calendar and throws his weight behind CPA proposals

twitter.com/UCDMedicine?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor (http://twitter.com/UCDMedicine?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor)

Other than Andy McEntee, have any intercounty football managers had much to say about the club/county fixtures issue?
Are you sure you posted the correct link?
What has Brian Cody got to do with UCD medicine?
Leastways, I can't find any reference to him on that page.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on January 26, 2017, 10:01:47 AM
Brian Cody slams 'crazy' inter-county calendar and throws his weight behind CPA proposals

twitter.com/UCDMedicine?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor (http://twitter.com/UCDMedicine?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor)

Other than Andy McEntee, have any intercounty football managers had much to say about the club/county fixtures issue?
Are you sure you posted the correct link?
What has Brian Cody got to do with UCD medicine?
Leastways, I can't find any reference to him on that page.

That's where Kilkenny have the ability to kick a football genetically modified out of them.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: munchkin on January 26, 2017, 10:17:49 AM
Are you sure you posted the correct link? 
heres that article
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/brian-cody-slams-crazy-intercounty-calendar-and-throws-his-weight-behind-cpa-proposals-35399102.html

theres another interesting article today on the matter of championship structures
Ciarán Murphy: ‘Forgotten’ hurling should take lead from football revamp

Quote
Hurling is being forgotten about. In all the talk of a radical revamp of the football championship, hurling is being treated as the poor relation. And this is not an isolated incident. There is a belief among hurling folk that Croke Park is run by football men, with the beautiful game being treated as an after-thought.
There will be 15 games left in the football championship once the provincial and qualifier series are finished, if the round-robin system replaces the quarter-finals as proposed. There will be just five in hurling. That seems pretty lopsided, and it is.
<snip>
The reality is that there are a finite number of teams competing in the hurling championship. It took seven weeks to run off the Munster championship (a knockout tournament) with five teams competing in it last year. It might be nice to ensure a spread of hurling games across the summer, but you can’t really spread your games any thinner than that.
The GAA have seen that the top teams in football don’t play each other enough at the business end of the championship. The system that goes before congress next month seeks to redress that balance.
In 2007, the hurling development committee lobbied for a proposal at congress that effectively meant teams often only need to win just four games to win the hurling All-Ireland, as has happened in four of the nine championships since.
The decision to reduce by half the number of quarter-finals was not one foisted on hurling people by a football-centric Croke Park. It was recommended by a committee made up of hurling men of unimpeachable standard, and chaired by Ned Quinn, the godfather of Kilkenny hurling. That decision was made in good faith, but it was the wrong decision.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/ciar%C3%A1n-murphy-forgotten-hurling-should-take-lead-from-football-revamp-1.2951158
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Avondhu star on January 26, 2017, 10:20:45 AM
If the clubs actually had a will to fulfil fixtures all summer long, a will "to get on with it", then much of the current malaise would go away.

Nail on head.
Absolutely. Let the county boards tell the clubs play or forfeit. Tell county managers that they are not going to postpone games to suit him and disrupt everyone else.
We have the situation where clubs are playing vital promotion and relegation playoffs in late November and early December. The players and supporters would far prefer games in good weather on a Saturday evening, Sunday or a midweek evening if suitable.
Every club has a delegate to the Divisional board and County board. Let them do their job in the clubs interest
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Jinxy on January 26, 2017, 10:22:55 AM
Brian Cody slams 'crazy' inter-county calendar and throws his weight behind CPA proposals

twitter.com/UCDMedicine?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor (http://twitter.com/UCDMedicine?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor)

Other than Andy McEntee, have any intercounty football managers had much to say about the club/county fixtures issue?
Are you sure you posted the correct link?
What has Brian Cody got to do with UCD medicine?
Leastways, I can't find any reference to him on that page.

Fixed now.
I've had some coffee.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: magpie seanie on January 26, 2017, 10:24:23 AM
If the clubs actually had a will to fulfil fixtures all summer long, a will "to get on with it", then much of the current malaise would go away.

Nail on head.
Absolutely. Let the county boards tell the clubs play or forfeit. Tell county managers that they are not going to postpone games to suit him and disrupt everyone else.
We have the situation where clubs are playing vital promotion and relegation playoffs in late November and early December. The players and supporters would far prefer games in good weather on a Saturday evening, Sunday or a midweek evening if suitable.
Every club has a delegate to the Divisional board and County board. Let them do their job in the clubs interest


Do you not see how grossly unfair that is for clubs who are supplying players to county teams? At one stage in the last decade we had 7 county senior football panellists. Going out without half your team against other clubs full teams.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Jinxy on January 26, 2017, 10:26:40 AM
Exactly.
Clubs who have no county men will want to play away and clubs who have county men will want to wait until they have them back.
It has ever been thus.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: rrhf on January 26, 2017, 02:25:24 PM
Throw this on its head.. Counties who have revenue stream should reward the clubs standard rates for players to support their real GAA activities ie the the neccessary  community work and 12 years of coaching per county player. 
This would lesson the blow of developing the talent to have it taken away.  I
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: In hiding on January 26, 2017, 02:33:39 PM
If the clubs actually had a will to fulfil fixtures all summer long, a will "to get on with it", then much of the current malaise would go away.

Nail on head.
Aye it's all the clubs fault  ::) how has no one figured this out sooner
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: shark on January 26, 2017, 02:35:53 PM
Exactly.
Clubs who have no county men will want to play away and clubs who have county men will want to wait until they have them back.
It has ever been thus.

True. But I guess we have accept that club league is only a warm up for championship. They won't be without for championship. There is no easy solution. My club always has a handful, and it's a challenge at times to integrate them back in. League games can be tough, especially if we have a few injuries on top. But as one of the players who was never on the county panel, I want those league games to take place no matter what. As scheduled, and relentlessly throughout the summer months. One of the top senior football teams in Westmeath are languishing in division 3 of the league as they have so many county players (mostly county hurlers), but when it comes to championship you wouldn't know. They seem to be able to slide back in effortlessly.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Jinxy on January 28, 2017, 05:24:45 PM
Very good discussion with Anthony Moyles on Newstalk now.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Jinxy on February 07, 2017, 10:23:41 PM
Wexford county board officially recognise CPA by including a rep on their fixtures review group.
No doubt Liam Griffin's involvement helps.

https://twitter.com/JohnFogartyIrl/status/829001442627293186 (https://twitter.com/JohnFogartyIrl/status/829001442627293186)
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: Captain Scarlet on February 07, 2017, 11:27:59 PM
All this CPA/ GPA or whatever. It all ends in what the county manager says. And the worst thing is, even if they say in public players will be released for 6 club games, in reality there is another in-house agreement that they won't play.
In reality there are county men who play around 8 games for their club all year, and even if there is a revamp of fixtures the county manager will come up with some way of holding his lads as he wants to hold his job.
So if you have a club with a good few lads they struggle through the league and then there might be one Round 1 championship match in April/ May before they are back in the county.
They get to train with a new manager in some cases for a grand total of two nights before club championship match and then straight into action.
It gets worse when it's county bench-warmers who won't get any real action who are still not allowed line out for their clubs.
Monaghan seem to have a good set-up in terms of allowing their county men to play. I just don't see how training so much and playing conditioned challenge games is as good as real club action where the county man is double-marked and is there to be stopped unless they can perform.
There is no incentive in many counties to play good, bad or indifferent for your club as the county panel keeps getting the same faces back and a few new one from underage squads. You see good club men getting the better of county men these days and it's no big deal, one won't get dropped and the other won't get called up.
I think the CPA are a good way to get started but they should bite the bullet and call out county set-ups and bosses who have absolute power. They will not work with them anyway so call them out.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: RedHandTom on February 10, 2017, 07:06:57 AM
If there wasn't so much incompetence at admin level then the CPA would never have arisen.
Title: Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
Post by: yellowcard on February 11, 2017, 11:11:50 AM
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/support-growing-for-round-robin-addition-to-allireland-championships-35441853.html

Id be getting worried that these proposals are going to get through congress despite the pleas of the CPA for a postponement of the motion. It sounds like Duffy is actively canvassing counties for their support and if this is true, then it is shameful. He has a vested interest in getting the motion through since it is effectively his brainchild when he should be adapting a neutral position. Decisions taken by administators who generally speaking are not involved in teams at ground level. The decisions therefore do not adversely affect them whilst the players suffer and participation levels decrease due to disillusionment with a catastrophic fixture list. If the motion gets through, that will be the issue fudged completely and the GAA's way of saying they have tidied up fixtures. Meanwhile the distance between the elite counties and the rest will get bigger and bigger. There is no perfect solution but there are better alternatives than this.