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Non GAA Discussion => General discussion => Topic started by: T Fearon on November 01, 2015, 06:04:06 PM

Title: Brexit.
Post by: T Fearon on November 01, 2015, 06:04:06 PM
Attended a very interesting debate on the implications of a Brexit, in Newry last Thursday morning.Bertie was one of the speakers.Few eye openers, not least of which is the absolute dread of the free state business community and political parties of a Brexit.Independance? Celebrating 1916 centenary? My Arse.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 01, 2015, 06:50:31 PM
Attended a very interesting debate on the implications of a Brexit, in Newry last Thursday morning.Bertie was one of the speakers.Few eye openers, not least of which is the absolute dread of the free state business community and political parties of a Brexit.Independance? Celebrating 1916 centenary? My Arse.

Not sure what point you're trying to make with those last three sentences.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: T Fearon on November 01, 2015, 06:55:33 PM
Simple point.Why does anything the British do,politically or otherwise,concern Irish politicians,except some action that affects the North? Also crapping your kacks at the prospect of Britain leaving the EU,does not suggest that Ireland is in any way independent.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on November 01, 2015, 06:59:54 PM
Brexit would not be economically advantageous for the UK. Brexit could lead to a lot of unintended consequences. The Tories are hostage to their eurosceptic wing and Labour are led by Corbyn, neither of which are ideal in this case.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: BennyCake on November 01, 2015, 07:01:19 PM
Never gonna happen. The big boys could cripple a country for not towing the line, hence why countries do what they're told.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on November 01, 2015, 07:02:54 PM
Simple point.Why does anything the British do,politically or otherwise,concern Irish politicians,except some action that affects the North? Also crapping your kacks at the prospect of Britain leaving the EU,does not suggest that Ireland is in any way independent.
I don't think any country in the modern world could be said to be truly independent. The UK certainly isn't.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: T Fearon on November 01, 2015, 07:18:11 PM
Believe me, it seems the 26 counties political and business classes are on the verge of a nervous breakdown now,and the date of a referendum hasn't even been announced yet.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Kursk on November 01, 2015, 07:20:04 PM
Brexit would not be economically advantageous for the UK. Brexit could lead to a lot of unintended consequences. The Tories are hostage to their eurosceptic wing and Labour are led by Corbyn, neither of which are ideal in this case.

That is the politics of fear. It is an old broken record at this stage. A more imaginative approach is needed.

As Suzanne Moore says:
"Surely I know, really, that when you want someone to vote a certain way you have to frighten them into thinking that any alternative is worse."
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/01/fear-mongering-enemy-of-democracy-from-greece-to-camerons-eu-referendum-euro-crisis (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/01/fear-mongering-enemy-of-democracy-from-greece-to-camerons-eu-referendum-euro-crisis)
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: bennydorano on November 01, 2015, 07:30:12 PM
I've said it before on a similar thread but one of the biggest knock effects could be the disintegration of the UK itself - if England's votes take Scotland, Wales & to a lesser extent NI out of the EU against the democratic will of those constituent parts of the UK. It's mainly English eurosceptics who want the Brexit & Cameron dances to their tune trying to outflank the right of his own party & the UKIPpers.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Kursk on November 01, 2015, 07:41:43 PM
True. The disintegration of the UK would definitely be an added bonus.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: T Fearon on November 01, 2015, 08:18:54 PM
All points are true but why is the freestate so concerned about a Brexit? Can true independence (which means it is irrelevant what Britain does) not be contemplated in the 26 counties never mind some mythical 32 county unitary state?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Rossfan on November 01, 2015, 08:35:16 PM
How about GB being our biggest trading partner?
Them leaving the single market would have to at least concern the business community.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Kursk on November 01, 2015, 08:58:29 PM
but if we exited the Euro as well we'd be free to choose whatever monetary policy suits us best. Britain can continue to be our biggest trading partner.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: T Fearon on November 01, 2015, 09:10:35 PM
I sensed trade was a large part of it,obviously,although those who favoured an exit maintained that special trade agreements would be drawn up to protect this,and there would be no return to customs posts at the North South Border.But I also got a strong sense that the co operation perceived to be required to sort out the six counties was also very important to the 26 counties.Do they really fear a break up of the U.K. could destabilise the UK to the extent that without Britain as an EU partner the South might have to deal with the North unaided?

I was really surprised by the tangible panic a potential Brexit is causing in the 26 counties which is unfathomable and irrational
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Rossfan on November 01, 2015, 09:32:35 PM
but if we exited the Euro as well we'd be free to choose whatever monetary policy suits us best. Britain can continue to be our biggest trading partner.
If we exit the Euro and the E U we will be fcuked - in the real world that is.
In fantasy land as inhabited by various loonylefties , extreme right neo Nazis and "Kursk" anything is possible and if someone says something can be done then that's it sorted.
A bit like Alice in wonderland. ;D
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Kursk on November 01, 2015, 10:03:15 PM
but if we exited the Euro as well we'd be free to choose whatever monetary policy suits us best. Britain can continue to be our biggest trading partner.
If we exit the Euro and the E U we will be fcuked - in the real world that is.
In fantasy land as inhabited by various loonylefties , extreme right neo Nazis and "Kursk" anything is possible and if someone says something can be done then that's it sorted.
A bit like Alice in wonderland. ;D

It is instructive to see you resort to insults when challenged.

Why don't you explain how we will be "fucked" champ ? or is that the extent of your economic knowledge.  Plenty of counties both big and small do just fine outside of the Eurozone and out of the Euro.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: T Fearon on November 01, 2015, 10:12:16 PM
Well Bertie certainly thinks Ireland would be fcuked if the 26 counties moved out of the EU!.He joked also that he was making the most of the bacon butties and scones available at the conference in Newry because there would be no money for them if there is a Brexit ;D

However there were a few commentators who said that no one really knows what would happen and its up to both sides to set an argument as to what the "UK" would look like both in or out of the EU and desist from scaremongering
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: ONeill on November 01, 2015, 10:19:58 PM
Here's a spreadsheet.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/uktrade/uk-trade/february-2015/ptl-table-9--change-in-3-monthly-trade-with-significant-partner-countries--december-2014-to-february-2015-compared-with-september-to-november-2014.xls
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: BennyCake on November 02, 2015, 02:39:59 AM
Ireland were the political and economic outcast of Europe after deciding not to join the allies in WW2. The repercussions were felt for years. It still tarnishes Ireland's reputation, and Ireland will always bow down, cap in hand to the evil global administrations, and do whatever they say because of it.  Ireland had to lick Europe's arsehole and enter the EEC in the 70s (after being turned down).

Ireland, and all countries want, and need to join the EU otherwise they'll be outcasts and the country will be fucked (moreso than it is already). In an ideal world most people would say "feck Europe", but it's not that simple.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 02, 2015, 03:38:50 AM
Britain is Ireland's biggest trading partner, Tony. The economies of the two islands are joined at the hip whether you like it or not. The implications of Brexit are absolutely huge. They're huge for the east-west relationship and they're huge for the EU that is so important to the free state economy.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: T Fearon on November 02, 2015, 07:22:40 AM
But it is reckoned that Britain and Ireland could reach a trade agreement fairly easily,so that is obviously not the main reason for Irish nervousness
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 02, 2015, 08:07:12 AM
Okay then. It's because we're all a crowd of soccer-loving, Eastenders-watching, Royal-family-admiring West Brits who yearn for a return to British rule. There. Happy now?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: LeoMc on November 02, 2015, 08:07:42 AM
But it is reckoned that Britain and Ireland could reach a trade agreement fairly easily,so that is obviously not the main reason for Irish nervousness
Could any EU state just set up a unilateral trade agreement with a non EU state?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Canalman on November 02, 2015, 09:15:04 AM
But it is reckoned that Britain and Ireland could reach a trade agreement fairly easily,so that is obviously not the main reason for Irish nervousness
Could any EU state just set up a unilateral trade agreement with a non EU state?

Correct, they cannot. Think France took some with them into the EEC as it was at the time.

Mate living in London for donkey's years now told me last Christmas that he was going to apply for a British passport just in case.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: smelmoth on November 02, 2015, 10:18:58 AM
Simple point.Why does anything the British do,politically or otherwise,concern Irish politicians,except some action that affects the North? Also crapping your kacks at the prospect of Britain leaving the EU,does not suggest that Ireland is in any way independent.
Ireland isn't independent. Nor for that matter is the UK. The fate of Ireland's main export market is of interest to lreland. As it would be if that export market was Peru

Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: smelmoth on November 02, 2015, 10:28:08 AM
I sensed trade was a large part of it,obviously,although those who favoured an exit maintained that special trade agreements would be drawn up to protect this,and there would be no return to customs posts at the North South Border.But I also got a strong sense that the co operation perceived to be required to sort out the six counties was also very important to the 26 counties.Do they really fear a break up of the U.K. could destabilise the UK to the extent that without Britain as an EU partner the South might have to deal with the North unaided?

I was really surprised by the tangible panic a potential Brexit is causing in the 26 counties which is unfathomable and irrational

Tony, what follow up questions did you ask to establish if those who advocated individual trade agreements had the first clue what they were talking about? Or did you unquestioningly accept what you were told?

How exactly would the south be left to deal with the north unaided?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: smelmoth on November 02, 2015, 10:36:37 AM
The Brexit debate is head in the jaws of a lion stuff. To deliver on the aspirations of a sensible majority that want co-operation within a democratic, efficient Europe we have address the major flaws within the EU. Without the brexit threat the bigger debate was not getting traction. It could go spectacularly wrong though
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Bord na Mona man on November 02, 2015, 10:57:17 AM
I'm not sure why and heed should be taken of Bertie Ahern.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Rossfan on November 02, 2015, 12:44:42 PM
I'm not sure why and heed should be taken of Bertie Ahern.

The recession only started after he "left" office ;)
He beat the bookies on a regular basis
He was never a member of the Provo Army Council
He supports that well known Irish soccer team who play in Salford
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: muppet on November 02, 2015, 03:12:29 PM
I'm not sure why and heed should be taken of Bertie Ahern.

Or Tony Fearon.

"I was really surprised by the tangible panic a potential Brexit is causing in the 26 counties which is unfathomable and irrational"

Has anyone else noticed this 'tangible panic'?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: deiseach on November 02, 2015, 03:26:33 PM
It was a White Anglo-Saxon Panic.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: muppet on November 02, 2015, 03:33:26 PM
It was a White Anglo-Saxon Panic.

Ah I see. Unionists hate to see people leaving Unions.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: T Fearon on November 02, 2015, 06:08:41 PM
Bit ironic all the same,that it was the freestate contingent,there in the capacity of "good neighbours" who were more exercised about the prospect of a Brexit than any of the Northern or "UK Mainland" contingent.Still don't understand this.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: muppet on November 02, 2015, 07:31:03 PM
Why is there a full stop in the thread title?

Is this significant?

Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Rossfan on November 02, 2015, 07:42:53 PM
Why is there a full stop in the thread title?

Is this significant?
It's probably a coded message to ISIS :o
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Kursk on November 02, 2015, 10:00:38 PM
some interesting points here about EU expansion.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/enlargement-and-the-euro-two-big-mistakes-that-ruined-europe-1.2414019 (http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/enlargement-and-the-euro-two-big-mistakes-that-ruined-europe-1.2414019)

Quote
There has hardly been a year when the EU has not been on the brink of some crisis: banking, sovereign debt, Russia’s annexation of Crimea and now refugees. You can always point fingers at individual politicians and assign blame. But it is highly implausible that the EU’s serial failures can always be explained as the product of accident and malice.

I put it down to two catastrophic errors committed during the 1990s and at the beginning of this millennium. The first was the introduction of the euro; the second, the EU’s enlargement to 28 members from 15 a couple of decades ago. You might agree with one or other of these statements, or with neither of them. But few people will agree with both.

I was among those who supported monetary union at the time of its introduction. Advocates of the euro at the time came from two different groups, who struck a Faustian Pact.

Members of the first group believed the euro as constructed would fail, and hoped it would somehow be fixed. The others thought the system would stay rigid, and bend the economies of its members into a new shape. This latter group knew that, to withstand the rigours of a fixed-exchange system that resembles nothing so much as the gold standard, countries would have to adjust to economic shocks through shifts in wages and prices — a course, they believed, that the euro’s members would be forced to take.

The admission that the euro was a mistake should not be confused with a desire to dissolve it. That would be even more catastrophic. It is merely a recognition that we are trapped in a dysfunctional monetary system.

But how does enlargement play into this? This is not an argument about any particular member state with whose actions one happens to disagree. Nor is it an argument about the principle of enlargement, which is fundamental to the EU. My quarrel is with the speed of accession, and the criteria that aspiring members have to meet. Just as countries have maximum absorption capacities for migrants, the EU has a maximum absorption capacity for new members. I have no idea what that number is in any given time period, but it surely is not 13 members in a single decade.

Enlargement affected Europe’s ability to respond to the shocks of subsequent years in two ways. First, it forced the EU to take its eye off the ball at a critical time when it should have focused on building the institutions needed to make the euro work. Second, enlargement meant that EU countries that were not in the eurozone suddenly found themselves in the majority. That shift naturally shaped the EU’s own agenda. I recall the obsession during those years with competitiveness, a typical small-country economic issue. Debates on the reform of Europe’s treaties during those years focused on voting rights and the protection of minorities. It was the overwhelming view of European officials and members of the European Parliament that the eurozone itself did not need to be fixed.

At that time it would have been comparatively easy to set up a banking union. But once the crisis set in, and banks suffered huge losses, countries could no longer share their deposit insurance schemes, let alone to create a single one for everybody. After the crisis had started, the debate about common insurance mechanisms became intertwined with one about transfers. The crisis thus rudely interrupted the EU’s time-honoured, step-by-step approach to integration.

An optimist might interject at this point that it is worth hanging in there. Crises come and go. The EU will still be there. Perhaps so, but then ask yourself: why was the period from the 1950s to the late 1990s more stable compared with the period since?

In the first years of the then European Economic Community, the external security risks were taken care of by Nato. There were almost no risks to financial stability because regulation was extremely stringent by today’s standards. While the economic shocks, such as the oil and inflation crises of the 1970s, were no less severe than today, EU members had the ability to absorb them through flexible exchange rates.

Today Brussels suddenly has to look after its own foreign policy interests and run the world’s second-largest economy. The EU is not institutionally ready for either job. And its leaders are intellectually not ready either.

We should expect to see more crises, more unilateral action by member states, greater willingness to explore opt-outs, invocation of exceptional circumstances to suspend EU-level action, more rule breaking and the like.

The real risk is not a formal break-up. That would be technically hard to do. But this is no consolation. The real danger is that the EU is simply going to wither away and turn into a ghost.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: ashman on November 02, 2015, 10:11:10 PM
Bit ironic all the same,that it was the freestate contingent,there in the capacity of "good neighbours" who were more exercised about the prospect of a Brexit than any of the Northern or "UK Mainland" contingent.Still don't understand this.

I assume the free state contingent were all from within 30 miles of the border ???

Hard to know yet .
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Arthur_Friend on November 03, 2015, 08:57:43 PM
Ireland were the political and economic outcast of Europe after deciding not to join the allies in WW2. The repercussions were felt for years. It still tarnishes Ireland's reputation, and Ireland will always bow down, cap in hand to the evil global administrations, and do whatever they say because of it.  Ireland had to lick Europe's arsehole and enter the EEC in the 70s (after being turned down).

Ireland, and all countries want, and need to join the EU otherwise they'll be outcasts and the country will be fucked (moreso than it is already). In an ideal world most people would say "feck Europe", but it's not that simple.

The Germans are still raging the Republic of Ireland didn't declare war on them in 1939? Right.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Kursk on November 03, 2015, 10:24:32 PM
Ireland were the political and economic outcast of Europe after deciding not to join the allies in WW2. The repercussions were felt for years. It still tarnishes Ireland's reputation, and Ireland will always bow down, cap in hand to the evil global administrations, and do whatever they say because of it.  Ireland had to lick Europe's arsehole and enter the EEC in the 70s (after being turned down).

Ireland, and all countries want, and need to join the EU otherwise they'll be outcasts and the country will be fucked (moreso than it is already). In an ideal world most people would say "feck Europe", but it's not that simple.

The Germans are still raging the Republic of Ireland didn't declare war on them in 1939? Right.

As flippant as that thought may be, do you think we would have been better off declaring a side one way or the other ?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 05, 2015, 07:17:40 AM
Do people think a Brexit will come about?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Maguire01 on November 05, 2015, 09:00:35 AM
No. It won't be a massive vote to stay in, but I think with a lot of these big votes, the 'don't knows' will fall disproportionately on the side of the status quo, with the 'fear of the unknown' element.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: AZOffaly on November 05, 2015, 10:21:22 AM
Ireland were the political and economic outcast of Europe after deciding not to join the allies in WW2. The repercussions were felt for years. It still tarnishes Ireland's reputation, and Ireland will always bow down, cap in hand to the evil global administrations, and do whatever they say because of it.  Ireland had to lick Europe's arsehole and enter the EEC in the 70s (after being turned down).

Ireland, and all countries want, and need to join the EU otherwise they'll be outcasts and the country will be fucked (moreso than it is already). In an ideal world most people would say "feck Europe", but it's not that simple.

The Germans are still raging the Republic of Ireland didn't declare war on them in 1939? Right.

As flippant as that thought may be, do you think we would have been better off declaring a side one way or the other ?

No. We'd have a whole lost generation of young men as well. I support neutrality.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: deiseach on November 05, 2015, 10:26:58 AM
I'm really looking forward to the Brexit referendum. You'll see a lot of masks slip, and it's hard to see how the Tory party can maintain unity. The craic will be ninety.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Rossfan on November 05, 2015, 11:21:08 AM
Would cost the 26 Co economy €3Bn per annum in lost trade per the ESRI.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: muppet on November 05, 2015, 11:29:40 AM
Would cost the 26 Co economy €3Bn per annum in lost trade per the ESRI.

Yerra €3bn! We'd throw that at a dodgy credit union without even checking the accounts.

Would there be a bounce as the only English speaking country left in the EU? For example, US multinationals based in the UK could  move much of their operations here following a Brexit.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Clov on November 05, 2015, 11:53:42 AM
Do people think a Brexit will come about?

I thought a year ago that it had a real chance of happening - UKIP vote on the rise, the majority of the Tory party in favour of exit. But Scottish referendum changed my mind. I think like it there will be sizeable minorities both for and against with the rest undecided in the lead up. And in the end the status quo will prevail as a vote for exit is a vote for uncertainty.

Its interesting to speculate though, what would have to happen between now and then for the out vote to win? A deeper migrant crisis? Another euro financial crisis?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: deiseach on November 05, 2015, 11:57:06 AM
Scotland is the wild card. I can't work out if the people of England, who are going to be the ones who decide this, would rather hold onto them or be rid of them. Rejecting Brexit might not keep Scotland in the Union in the long run, but accepting Brexit sure as heck would see them leave in the shortest run possible.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Clov on November 05, 2015, 12:05:09 PM
Don't underestimate English indifference to how their neighbours (and the wider world) views them. I live in the south of England and i was struck by how uninformed on even the basic terms of the independence debate some English friends of mine were.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: deiseach on November 05, 2015, 12:19:20 PM
Don't underestimate English indifference to how their neighbours (and the wider world) views them. I live in the south of England and i was struck by how uninformed on even the basic terms of the independence debate some English friends of mine were.

Do you think 'indifference' will make them more or less likely to vote for Brexit?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Clov on November 05, 2015, 12:29:50 PM
Don't underestimate English indifference to how their neighbours (and the wider world) views them. I live in the south of England and i was struck by how uninformed on even the basic terms of the independence debate some English friends of mine were.

Do you think 'indifference' will make them more or less likely to vote for Brexit?

It would have to be more i think. The whole European project is predicated on the mutual benefits of closer co-operation and integration. The English on the whole don't seem to me to be very concerned with mutual benefits.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: deiseach on November 05, 2015, 12:41:48 PM
I think you are right. Plenty of people would think the notion that the EU is predicated on the mutual benefits of closer co-operation and integration to be a load of waffle, in the same way that the primacy of the club player in the GAA might be legitimately viewed as waffle. However, you'd never get anyone arguing that the primacy of the club player is a bad thing, while you will get loads of people arguing that closer co-operation within Europe is a bad thing in principle. People who think the EU is a sinister cabal to force everyone to drink half-litres rather than pints will be given a respectable hearing rather than being told to get a grip.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 05, 2015, 12:56:17 PM
Simple point.Why does anything the British do,politically or otherwise,concern Irish politicians,except some action that affects the North?

There are the Republic's largest export market.

Exports have been the primary driver of the Republic's recovery:
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/exports-the-primary-driver-of-economic-turnaround-1.2221285

Being in the common EU trade area facilitates this trade.  So what UK does "politically or otherwise" has everything to do with our economic health.   I hope our politicians are concerned about this economic health (among other things).

/Jim.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Rossfan on November 05, 2015, 04:32:44 PM
How much of GB's exports go to the EU?
Who will they sell to if they pull out?
By the way I believe us little 4.6m are GB's 4 largest export market.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Farrandeelin on February 09, 2016, 11:12:00 PM
Anybody know the current state of play, opinion polls etc on this?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on February 09, 2016, 11:23:41 PM
How much of GB's exports go to the EU?
Who will they sell to if they pull out?
By the way I believe us little 4.6m are GB's 4 largest export market.


http://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/gbr/


The top export destinations of the United Kingdom are the United States ($50.2B), Germany ($46.6B), the Netherlands ($36B), France ($28.8B) and Belgium-Luxembourg ($25.1B). The top import origins are Germany ($88.8B), China ($55.2B), the Netherlands ($52.1B), France ($39B) and the United States ($37.8B).
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: T Fearon on February 10, 2016, 05:55:00 AM
Cameron to visit the six counties to encourage vote to stay in.About to witness the irony of a British Tory Prime Minister being supported by nationalist parties and voters and opposed by unionists!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: AQMP on February 17, 2016, 10:25:40 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-35590962

A survey of business people in Northern Ireland has found that 81% will vote for the UK to remain in the European Union (EU).

A referendum on the UK's membership of the EU is expected to be held later this year.
A major survey by the Northern Ireland Chamber of Commerce suggests only 11% of business people in Northern Ireland support a British exit (Brexit).  That compares to 30% of those surveyed in the rest of the UK.

More than half (60%) of Northern Ireland's senior businesspeople polled in the survey revealed that the outcome of Prime Minister David Cameron's renegotiated EU deal is unlikely to change how they will vote.  The results come on the eve of crunch Brussels talks, which are expected to result in a deal.  Despite a large majority of Northern Ireland firms (89%) saying they are following the debate, the findings demonstrate that the renegotiation process is having little effect on business opinion.

It is the referendum itself that is important, rather than any package of reforms.  Eighty-four per cent of Northern Ireland businesses also say that there has been no impact on their sales and orders as of yet, due to the uncertainty of Britain's future within the EU.  Commenting on the results, President of Northern Ireland Chamber of Commerce Stephen McCully said the findings suggest that "the renegotiation is having little impact on day-to-day business - or the vote of the business community".

He said that this was because many made up their minds before knowing the outcome of negotiations, effectively discounting them as irrelevant.  "For business people, this is a question of in or out," he said.  "Those within Northern Ireland who are firmly wedded to the EU have said that Brexit will leave us stranded outside the EU, and coping with the re-emergence of a land border with the Republic of Ireland.  "Emotion has a part in all decision making and it will do so here, but there is a duty to ensure decisions are as well informed as they can be."
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on February 17, 2016, 10:29:04 AM
The DUP are going to activiely support a 'Brexit'. Will be an interesting conversation telling their farmer friends they will be 360 mill+ worse off.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on February 17, 2016, 10:46:40 AM
It is just too uncertain for the UK to leave
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: No wides on February 17, 2016, 10:50:08 AM
It is just too uncertain for the UK to leave

The people of the UK will leave, you made some random point on another thread that the city won't allow them to leave - is that the white city?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Rossfan on February 17, 2016, 10:53:06 AM
It is just too uncertain for the UK to leave

The people of the UK will leave

A new prophet ::)
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on February 17, 2016, 10:55:28 AM
I think the DUP have lost the plot on this one, especially with a leader from a border agricultural constituency. Whatever plans the London government have for any money by not contributing to the EU, sending it to NI would not be at the front of the list and small farmers would not be high on the list either. The EU provides a convenient politics free framework for cooperation on the island of Ireland, Brexit endangers all this. Some of the looper end of unionism hope for a fence along the border as a consequence and would have support in Britain for this kind of thing among the out crowd. This isn't very likely in practice, but anything remotely along those lines, customs posts, ID checks etc would kick off the whole thing in the 6 counties again. So people will want a lot of specific Anglo-Irish agreements to stop this, and this will involve more explicit arrangements than just coming in under the EU umbrella. As many non looper unionists will see that the present situation with both parts of Ireland in the EU is a stable one, and Brexit introducing possible destabilising factors including a renewed pressure for Scottish independence, so they will probably vote no, and so the DUP will be backing the losers.

Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: No wides on February 17, 2016, 11:22:41 AM
It is just too uncertain for the UK to leave

The people of the UK will leave

A new prophet ::)

So its OK for folk to say they won't leave, the Tories have really misjudged this one, the immigration issue alone will mean those who are directly affected which is the majority of the low paid population will vote to get out under the mass hysteria that the likes of UKIP will generate.  Love your rolly eyes by the way really suits you.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: muppet on February 17, 2016, 01:00:25 PM
Why are people using logic and reason to analyse the DUP position?

Ideology means everything to them, as it does to some other parties (and religions) around here. Independent thinking is not encouraged.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on February 17, 2016, 01:04:26 PM
I think the DUP have lost the plot on this one, especially with a leader from a border agricultural constituency. Whatever plans the London government have for any money by not contributing to the EU, sending it to NI would not be at the front of the list and small farmers would not be high on the list either. The EU provides a convenient politics free framework for cooperation on the island of Ireland, Brexit endangers all this. Some of the looper end of unionism hope for a fence along the border as a consequence and would have support in Britain for this kind of thing among the out crowd. This isn't very likely in practice, but anything remotely along those lines, customs posts, ID checks etc would kick off the whole thing in the 6 counties again. So people will want a lot of specific Anglo-Irish agreements to stop this, and this will involve more explicit arrangements than just coming in under the EU umbrella. As many non looper unionists will see that the present situation with both parts of Ireland in the EU is a stable one, and Brexit introducing possible destabilising factors including a renewed pressure for Scottish independence, so they will probably vote no, and so the DUP will be backing the losers.


The DUP lost the plot a long time ago. Thanks to London subventions they have zero awareness of macroeconomics or fiscal responsibility Money comes from London and always will.

Brexit is a really stupid idea. The City will pack up and leave. What sort of industry does the DUP have to replace it with? Linen?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: No wides on February 17, 2016, 01:25:03 PM
Again is this the white city?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: deiseach on February 17, 2016, 01:43:24 PM
Again is this the white city?

No, it's the City.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on February 17, 2016, 01:50:00 PM
Why are people using logic and reason to analyse the DUP position?

Ideology means everything to them, as it does to some other parties (and religions) around here. Independent thinking is not encouraged.

Some of us are logical people, I suppose and we never learn the futility of applying logic to politicians.

That said, the DUP should be concerned with the Union between NI and GB and this Brexit threatens to weaken that union, if only because it would stir up centrifugal tendencies in Scotland. So, as usual, the unionists are acting in a way to threaten their own cause. Quelle surprise. 

I'm inclined to think the British won't go for it in the end, owing to the economic uncertainty. The danger would be that the middle of the road person would not turn out for the referendum.



Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Hound on February 18, 2016, 09:11:35 AM
Personally I don't think our exports to the UK would reduce by any significant amount if UK left the EU. It would be better if they stayed in, but there's a lot of Y2K type scaremongering going on. Post Brexit, neither UK nor EU will do anything to damage trade links between the two.

One benefit of Brexit would be that it would help our battle against the UK in winning new foreign direct investment from North America. Although an independent Scotland in the EU would greatly change that equation.

NI would be the one area to suffer in my view if there was a Brexit. The reasons for foreign companies to set up or maintain operations in NI would be reduced further.

Interesting on BBC news last night. They led with the bad news that the north looks like losing 1,000 jobs due to Bombardier reducing operations. Next story was on how employment levels in the rest of the UK is going upwards, and they had a lad on being interviewed saying how great everything was.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: deiseach on February 18, 2016, 09:39:05 AM
Personally I don't think our exports to the UK would reduce by any significant amount if UK left the EU. It would be better if they stayed in, but there's a lot of Y2K type scaremongering going on. Post Brexit, neither UK nor EU will do anything to damage trade links between the two.

They may not want to damage trade links, but once they get down to negotiations then all kind of taboos will be on the table. Brexit, should it happen, is going to be fuelled by a desire to restrict freedom of movement. There's absolutely no way the EU would tolerate a situation where there are restrictions on EU citizens entering the UK without responding in kind. There are bound to be extra costs for Irish exports to the UK. Although that has to be a mere bagatelle when set against having to produce a passport every time we enter the UK. I wonder whether my sense of national pride would weaken upon the sight of Mrs d sauntering through while Herr Flick interrogates me on my employment status and whether the boy has anything that might make him a medical tourist!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Hound on February 18, 2016, 01:21:18 PM
Personally I don't think our exports to the UK would reduce by any significant amount if UK left the EU. It would be better if they stayed in, but there's a lot of Y2K type scaremongering going on. Post Brexit, neither UK nor EU will do anything to damage trade links between the two.

They may not want to damage trade links, but once they get down to negotiations then all kind of taboos will be on the table. Brexit, should it happen, is going to be fuelled by a desire to restrict freedom of movement. There's absolutely no way the EU would tolerate a situation where there are restrictions on EU citizens entering the UK without responding in kind. There are bound to be extra costs for Irish exports to the UK. Although that has to be a mere bagatelle when set against having to produce a passport every time we enter the UK. I wonder whether my sense of national pride would weaken upon the sight of Mrs d sauntering through while Herr Flick interrogates me on my employment status and whether the boy has anything that might make him a medical tourist!
All scaremongering in my view.

Not needing a passport to get into the UK from Ireland has nothing to do with the EU.

At the moment you need a passport to go from the rest of the EU to get into the UK. You don't need a passport to go from Ireland to the UK. That won't change post Brexit (so long as Ireland don't join Schengen, which we won't).

And the chances of EU or UK imposing tariffs on imports/exports are remote, to say the least. If/when Brexit looks like becoming a reality, the powers that be will make every effort to ensure it doesn't impact on EU-UK trade. Of course, that won't be broadcast in the short term, as we want to encourage the UK to stay rather than play down potential exit issues.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: screenexile on February 18, 2016, 01:37:42 PM
Personally I don't think our exports to the UK would reduce by any significant amount if UK left the EU. It would be better if they stayed in, but there's a lot of Y2K type scaremongering going on. Post Brexit, neither UK nor EU will do anything to damage trade links between the two.

They may not want to damage trade links, but once they get down to negotiations then all kind of taboos will be on the table. Brexit, should it happen, is going to be fuelled by a desire to restrict freedom of movement. There's absolutely no way the EU would tolerate a situation where there are restrictions on EU citizens entering the UK without responding in kind. There are bound to be extra costs for Irish exports to the UK. Although that has to be a mere bagatelle when set against having to produce a passport every time we enter the UK. I wonder whether my sense of national pride would weaken upon the sight of Mrs d sauntering through while Herr Flick interrogates me on my employment status and whether the boy has anything that might make him a medical tourist!
All scaremongering in my view.

Not needing a passport to get into the UK from Ireland has nothing to do with the EU.

At the moment you need a passport to go from the rest of the EU to get into the UK. You don't need a passport to go from Ireland to the UK. That won't change post Brexit (so long as Ireland don't join Schengen, which we won't).

And the chances of EU or UK imposing tariffs on imports/exports are remote, to say the least. If/when Brexit looks like becoming a reality, the powers that be will make every effort to ensure it doesn't impact on EU-UK trade. Of course, that won't be broadcast in the short term, as we want to encourage the UK to stay rather than play down potential exit issues.

I don't know what way it will affect our business. We export Irish Pharmaceuticals to the UK/EEA but this is only possible due to the free movement of goods across member states.

There will be huge regulatory issues around this for us and the rest of the Pharmaceutical industry if the UK leave the EU!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: deiseach on February 18, 2016, 01:59:21 PM
I'm certainly not scaremongering. There's a large part of me that wants to see Brexit, if only to see what happens. But should Britain leave it will be seen as an overwhelming mandate for border controls. When I say you would have to 'produce a passport', I don't mean like the perfunctory process you have to go through when arriving at Cherbourg or Charles de Gaulle, I mean having to go through immigration. That is the absolute minimum that the Outers will expect from their victory. And while I think it less likely that tariffs will be imposed on trade, checking every vehicle that travels between Ireland and the UK for rats migrants is going to be a ruinously expensive business. Now, it's possible that some understanding will be reached. But I think that is to underestimate the xenophobia of the Outers, a phobia that wouldn't take long to mutate into a spot of Paddy-bashing if the presence of some open borders is perceived to be a sticking point.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Rossfan on February 18, 2016, 03:00:33 PM
They'll need some army of Immigration officials to vet everyone travelling from the 26 Cos to the 6 Cos ;D
Be some craic for Donegalers heading to and from Clones on U F day.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 19, 2016, 11:22:00 AM
Some one on another thread described unionism as British Nationalism which sums up their approach to the EU. It is not based on logic but gut feeling. Mind you Nationalism works the same way in reverse. Most right thinking EU leaders outside the old Eastern Block should be supporting the changes Cameron is looking to make especially around benefits and migration.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: GJL on February 19, 2016, 10:11:20 PM
So it's a no then?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: gallsman on February 19, 2016, 10:34:53 PM
So it's a no then?

Huh?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: OgraAnDun on February 19, 2016, 10:41:46 PM
So it's a no then?

I'm sceptical as to whether there's enough in this deal to secure an 'in' vote. This idea of 'ever closer union' is very wishy washy and will surely be pounced upon by the out campaign. The early signs are that there will be no real reversal of EU encroachment onto British sovereignty - or whatever way you want to put it - aside from concessions on future immigrants, which might anger some people.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on February 19, 2016, 11:21:05 PM
The whole thing is bollix, little Englanders harkening back to Empire. The "benefits", is children's allowances which is about £30m, or less than 50p per person. You'd pay that for a decade for the cost of running the referendum.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Minder on February 19, 2016, 11:23:36 PM
The whole thing is bollix, little Englanders harkening back to Empire. The "benefits", is children's allowances which is about £30m, or less than 50p per person. You'd pay that for a decade for the cost of running the referendum.

It's all benefits is it not ?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Rossfan on February 19, 2016, 11:24:11 PM
The whole thing is bollix, little Englanders harkening back to Empire.
+1.
"Deal" is a fig leaf for Cameron to trumpet a stunning victory over those Europeans blah blah blah....
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on February 19, 2016, 11:44:51 PM
The whole thing is bollix, little Englanders harkening back to Empire. The "benefits", is children's allowances which is about £30m, or less than 50p per person. You'd pay that for a decade for the cost of running the referendum.

It's all benefits is it not ?

Its "in work" benefits. You can't just come and claim the dole in any case.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Shamrock Shore on February 19, 2016, 11:46:40 PM
Wonder will he get all Neville Chamberlain like and hold up the 'deal' on a piece of paper for the baying meeja tomorrow.

Will White Van Man vote yes or no using his own thought process or do wot the Sun tells him to do?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: BennyHarp on February 19, 2016, 11:48:47 PM
The whole referendum is a sham. Asking people who literally know feck all about the EU to vote and decide whether the country remains in the EU is ludicrous in the extreme. I heard some comedian comment that it's like a bomb disposal expert ringing him and asking which wire to cut.

Cameron, though, knows Britain are highly unlikely to vote to leave, when push comes to shove (see the Scottish vote) fear of losing money and jobs trumps national jingoism and this is why he included the promise of the vote in his manifesto. A win in this referendum will be written into history books as the time Cameron went to Europe and kicked ass. A carefully scripted spin that will see him move on at the end of his term as a PM who achieved great things. This will be his finest hour. In reality he'll have achieved jack all and risked a European exit to achieve it.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Minder on February 20, 2016, 12:00:35 AM
The whole thing is bollix, little Englanders harkening back to Empire. The "benefits", is children's allowances which is about £30m, or less than 50p per person. You'd pay that for a decade for the cost of running the referendum.

It's all benefits is it not ?

Its "in work" benefits. You can't just come and claim the dole in any case.

You can after you have been here for three months
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 20, 2016, 12:03:11 AM
What would the farmers do without their free money every year?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Aaron Boone on February 20, 2016, 12:06:58 AM
I'm backing David.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Minder on February 20, 2016, 12:27:33 AM
What would the farmers do without their free money every year?

And all the "community workers".
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on February 20, 2016, 12:28:54 AM
What would the farmers do without their free money every year?

And all the "community workers".

You could reassign the  "community workers" to help out the farmers?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on February 20, 2016, 01:20:18 AM
I think a Brexit from Ireland would be the dog's bollocks

there was a super article in When Saturday comes about NI and GSTQ.
Not online but there is this

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/54-say-ditch-god-save-the-queen-for-northern-ireland-sporting-events-34377456.html
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 20, 2016, 05:16:05 AM
The whole thing is bollix, little Englanders harkening back to Empire.
+1.
"Deal" is a fig leaf for Cameron to trumpet a stunning victory over those Europeans blah blah blah....
+2. The whole thing has been pure theatre from the start. Cameron asked for a handful of things they were always going to give anyway. Negotiating past the deadline added a nice dramatic touch. He can go back to the Eurosceptics in his party and say "I showed them Germans who's boss" and enough waverers will go along with it. I'd be very surprised if they voted to leave.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on February 20, 2016, 05:19:31 AM
The macro economic risk changed a lot since 2013 in fairness to Cameron. William Hagud would be a common or garden Eurosceptic and even he changed his mind
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: BennyHarp on February 20, 2016, 12:57:32 PM
So the referendum is on 23rd of June.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: LeoMc on February 22, 2016, 10:11:41 AM
Personally I don't think our exports to the UK would reduce by any significant amount if UK left the EU. It would be better if they stayed in, but there's a lot of Y2K type scaremongering going on. Post Brexit, neither UK nor EU will do anything to damage trade links between the two.

They may not want to damage trade links, but once they get down to negotiations then all kind of taboos will be on the table. Brexit, should it happen, is going to be fuelled by a desire to restrict freedom of movement. There's absolutely no way the EU would tolerate a situation where there are restrictions on EU citizens entering the UK without responding in kind. There are bound to be extra costs for Irish exports to the UK. Although that has to be a mere bagatelle when set against having to produce a passport every time we enter the UK. I wonder whether my sense of national pride would weaken upon the sight of Mrs d sauntering through while Herr Flick interrogates me on my employment status and whether the boy has anything that might make him a medical tourist!
All scaremongering in my view.

Not needing a passport to get into the UK from Ireland has nothing to do with the EU.

At the moment you need a passport to go from the rest of the EU to get into the UK. You don't need a passport to go from Ireland to the UK. That won't change post Brexit (so long as Ireland don't join Schengen, which we won't).

And the chances of EU or UK imposing tariffs on imports/exports are remote, to say the least. If/when Brexit looks like becoming a reality, the powers that be will make every effort to ensure it doesn't impact on EU-UK trade. Of course, that won't be broadcast in the short term, as we want to encourage the UK to stay rather than play down potential exit issues.

I don't know what way it will affect our business. We export Irish Pharmaceuticals to the UK/EEA but this is only possible due to the free movement of goods across member states.

There will be huge regulatory issues around this for us and the rest of the Pharmaceutical industry if the UK leave the EU!
Surely the vote is only to leave the EU not he EEA.
I am sure the UK will be looking to have the same status as Norway / Switzerland.

It could be the future, the core EEC Countries moving closer to Political union and a USE with an outer belt of linked economies.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 22, 2016, 10:50:57 AM
Listening to the pro Brexit camp on Radio Uladh this morning I was struck by the naiveté of Depooty Dawds (as Brian Feeney likes to call him). If he thinks that Osbourne is going to pile money in to NI's farming industry he is deluded. Owen Patterson when asked about this was also vague. I was also struck by the lack of balance or challenge from the GMU team.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Shamrock Shore on February 22, 2016, 10:51:42 AM
If UK exits then I'm opening a duty free shop either side of the bawdah.

Would Slab have a ploh-a-land to sell to cover the auld tax bill, I wonder?
A site that straddles same said bawdah?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: deiseach on February 22, 2016, 10:55:59 AM
If UK exits then I'm opening a duty free shop either side of the bawdah.

Would Slab have a ploh-a-land to sell to cover the auld tax bill, I wonder?
A site that straddles same said bawdah?

Free copy of My Little Book of Tweets with every purchase. In fact, have two copies.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Farrandeelin on February 22, 2016, 09:51:55 PM
I may be alone, but I see a comfortable 'win' for the In side in this one. There's too much uncertainty for the UK if they leave. I would love to see Cameron taken down a peg or two, but I hope his 'In' side come out on top of this one.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on February 22, 2016, 10:08:18 PM
I may be alone, but I see a comfortable 'win' for the In side in this one. There's too much uncertainty for the UK if they leave. I would love to see Cameron taken down a peg or two, but I hope his 'In' side come out on top of this one.

So you would think and there is still several months to go for the issues to be clarified. I would be concerned about turnout, the gripers will turn out but will the ordinary sensible punter do so.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: BennyHarp on February 22, 2016, 10:12:31 PM
Boris suggests that Britain should leave because the British Empire used to rule the world! A compelling argument Boris, though a tad dated!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: AQMP on February 23, 2016, 09:35:45 AM
I may be alone, but I see a comfortable 'win' for the In side in this one. There's too much uncertainty for the UK if they leave. I would love to see Cameron taken down a peg or two, but I hope his 'In' side come out on top of this one.

You are not alone Farrandeelin!  This will be a long campaign but ultimately it will come down to the unknown vs the known or change vs the status quo.  People don't like change.  It will be odd to see a lot of Tories and Brexiters making the exact opposite arguments that they did during the Scottish Ref campaign.  Remember when one of the big issues was that an independent Scotland would not be able to be a member of the EU??
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 23, 2016, 10:24:05 AM
I may be alone, but I see a comfortable 'win' for the In side in this one. There's too much uncertainty for the UK if they leave. I would love to see Cameron taken down a peg or two, but I hope his 'In' side come out on top of this one.
Don't under estimate the average Brit's belief that they still rule the waves and can go it alone, just listen to SuperBrit Dawdsey.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: screenexile on February 23, 2016, 10:25:41 AM
I may be alone, but I see a comfortable 'win' for the In side in this one. There's too much uncertainty for the UK if they leave. I would love to see Cameron taken down a peg or two, but I hope his 'In' side come out on top of this one.
Don't under estimate the average Brit's belief that they still rule the waves and can go it alone, just listen to SuperBrit Dawdsey.

Nah it's just like the Scottish independence thing... they don't know what will happen if they leave the EU so they won't.

Already a number of big corportations have come out and said they may have to move should the UK leave which already puts fear into most minds. I can't see any way it happens!!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on March 06, 2016, 12:31:50 AM
I see the UU have come down for "Remain", which is an unusual piece of leadership from them. It shows the DUP up for the bigots that they are.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 06, 2016, 12:42:39 AM
I see the UU have come down for "Remain", which is an unusual piece of leadership from them. It shows the DUP up for the bigots that they are.

About time there was something to separate those two parties. The only way back into business for the UUP is to move to the centre and stop trying to out-DUP the DUP.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on March 06, 2016, 05:26:58 AM
I see the UU have come down for "Remain", which is an unusual piece of leadership from them. It shows the DUP up for the bigots that they are.
It would be gas if Cameron expelled NI from the UK for consorting with the enemy during the Brexit pantomime. All those murals about crown and Loyalism and when it comes to a big decision the DUP sides with the morons.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on March 12, 2016, 03:08:24 PM
Marty has now called for a United Ireland poll in the event of Brexit. Given that NI is likely to be well against and given that Scotland will be calling for referendums in the event of Brexit, this is good timing. It does vindicate Nesbitt, who argues that remain is more stable for NI in the UK rather than the DUP bigots who just want to stir trouble.

There are a number of strange things here. SF are supporting remain, although leave might bring about a UI poll. The UU are supporting remain on the basis that a Brexit might encourage a border poll or Scottish referendum, but of course if NI clearly voted for Brexit and Brexit occurred then there wouldn't be much case for a poll. The DUP support leave to try and enhance the border, but of course Brexit followed by any UI poll would require clarification of the post EU nature of north-south cooperation and probably more All Ireland bodies.

I doubt Brexit will pass, a outers shout loudly but people in Britain will vote quietly for the status quo. But it would be interesting if England was 50.1% to leave, but NI, Scotland and Wales only 30% to leave, so keeping them in! 
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: T Fearon on March 12, 2016, 03:57:46 PM
In fairness it's the Paisleyite wing of the DUP only that wants a Brexit,Arlene doesn't but probably reckons it won't happen anyway so to keep the party together they are very softly in favour of a Brexit
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: T Fearon on March 12, 2016, 03:59:10 PM
And I doubt if Bremain is truly Sinn Fein's preferred option either,long term
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on March 12, 2016, 04:06:23 PM
In fairness it's the Paisleyite wing of the DUP only that wants a Brexit,Arlene doesn't but probably reckons it won't happen anyway so to keep the party together they are very softly in favour of a Brexit

The woman should show some leadership, Fermanagh has most to lose from this bollix.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: T Fearon on March 12, 2016, 04:27:59 PM
All about keeping the party together and clipping wings of TUV.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on March 12, 2016, 04:40:51 PM
All about keeping the party together and clipping wings of TUV.

She is First Minister, she should have some concern for NI and not just trying to outbigot a shower of poisoned lunatics.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: trileacman on March 13, 2016, 01:24:39 AM
All about keeping the party together and clipping wings of TUV.

She is First Minister, she should have some concern for NI and not just trying to outbigot a shower of poisoned lunatics.

This is NI, where logical thought is not only sparsely found but outrightly persecuted. The only thing I find astonishing about Ni politics anymore is that rational people like yourself are still astonished by the pure Neanderthal nature of it.

I seriously believe NI is as certifiably insane as American politics has become, I mean you can draw endless parallels. The only difference is that the states are powerful enough to implement the lunacy they peddle and the north isn't.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: T Fearon on March 13, 2016, 02:44:42 PM
As I have said,my experience away from cameras,politicians work very well together.

While in favour of these islands remaining in the EU,the Brexit side does talk a lot of sense in terms of migrants (in the part of Portadown where I used to live,there was a murder last weekend and the whole area is a migrant ghetto,the money poured in etc,and I doubt if the EU gravy train will last much longer for Ireland as handouts are switched to Eastern Europe.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on March 13, 2016, 05:48:53 PM
Portadown has always been a migrant ghetto and there have been many murders there.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on March 13, 2016, 11:00:40 PM
Portadown has always been a migrant ghetto and there have been many murders there.
Portadown has awful karma. I never felt the same in any other town
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: heganboy on April 26, 2016, 12:00:12 AM
but what has the European Convention on Human Rights ever done for us?


http://www.theguardian.com/culture/video/2016/apr/25/patrick-stewart-sketch-what-has-the-echr-ever-done-for-us-video
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Orior on April 26, 2016, 12:42:29 AM
In my opinion (which by the way, I rate very highly) you need to have a degree in economics to really understand the full pros and cons of Britain leaving the European Union. You need to be able to assimilate all of the available information and block out the soothsayers and those with hidden agendas.

And that is why I think the Politicians should have made the decision, not the public. The latter can decide on things like gay marriage or abortion.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: bennydorano on April 26, 2016, 08:17:17 AM
Remain were 7/8pts ahead in Polls before Obama put the boot the into the Brexiteers.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on April 26, 2016, 10:01:26 AM
I think Brexit is the wrong answer to the failure of the system to deliver decent jobs to ordinary Brits.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: screenexile on April 26, 2016, 10:05:38 AM
I think Brexit is the wrong answer to the failure of the system to deliver decent jobs to ordinary Brits.

It is the wrong answer and thank f**k the remain have pulled ahead and the exchange rate is starting to get back to a decent level!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: bennydorano on April 26, 2016, 01:26:57 PM
Amusing watching the Brexiteers whining about Government tactics, the exact same tactics were employed to successfully scare the Scots, guessing they thought the tactics were spiffing back then.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: muppet on May 09, 2016, 05:33:30 PM
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/brexit-could-trigger-world-war-7928607 (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/brexit-could-trigger-world-war-7928607)

World War no less!

By the time of the vote I am guessing we could have the First Milky Way War just around the corner. I never trusted those Andromedáns.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: bennydorano on May 09, 2016, 05:45:33 PM
Saw a poll today having it at 42 stay, 40 Leave, with a significant don't know.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: BennyCake on May 09, 2016, 06:58:36 PM
Brits Out!

That should've been the slogan.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on May 09, 2016, 07:08:56 PM
Brits out. Keep Kilburn Irish.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: omaghjoe on May 10, 2016, 05:13:12 PM
Jesus... havent really been following this... i thought it was a foregone conclusion, but it is starting to look like a genuine possibility.

From the few stories I have looked at, it looks like Cameron and Stay are under a serious bit of pressure? Is that a fair assessment?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: easytiger95 on May 10, 2016, 05:20:43 PM
Yep, it's a coin toss at the moment Joe. And the dilemma for the Stay campaign is that the more establishment types they wheel out to talk about the dangers of leaving, the more it paints the Leave guys as an insurgency - and as Trump and Bernie have proved already this year, plus Le Pen in France, insurgencies are in. I'd think it is going to be a narrow Stay win, narrow enough that the question isn't closed, a la Scotland.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: omaghjoe on May 10, 2016, 06:23:53 PM
Would be some craic if they left  ;D...tho there would have to be some sort of deal struck with Brussels both long and short term so I would say it would wouldnt actually work out that much different in reality.

Has the Glory of the British Empire, Rule Britannia and all that shite will be rolled out yet? That BS appeals to alot of ordinary English people so I would say there is a good chance youll be hearing it soon enough.


Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: bennydorano on May 15, 2016, 07:54:10 PM
The end for the Brexiteers?

EU Referendum: Boris Johnson compares EU's aims to Hitler's - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36295208
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on May 15, 2016, 09:36:17 PM
Would be some craic if they left  ;D...tho there would have to be some sort of deal struck with Brussels both long and short term so I would say it would wouldnt actually work out that much different in reality.

I think it is dangerous and might not be craic at all. They claim that a deal will be done not much different, but presumably they want some difference or what is the point of leaving ? Such a thing will be destabilising on this island, but may affect California less.

The end for the Brexiteers?

EU Referendum: Boris Johnson compares EU's aims to Hitler's - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36295208

you would think it would, but the whole thing isn't quite rational.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: yellowcard on May 15, 2016, 09:39:19 PM
The end for the Brexiteers?

EU Referendum: Boris Johnson compares EU's aims to Hitler's - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36295208

Johnson is a buffoon, the stereotypical little Englander. Stay is still a strong favourite but I can see the gap narrowing and stay getting ultimately about 55-60% of the vote.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: BennyCake on May 15, 2016, 10:52:13 PM
The end for the Brexiteers?

EU Referendum: Boris Johnson compares EU's aims to Hitler's - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36295208

Johnson is a buffoon, the stereotypical little Englander. Stay is still a strong favourite but I can see the gap narrowing and stay getting ultimately about 55-60% of the vote.

Yes he's a buffoon. That's why he's leading the Brexit side. He's a patsy, just like Trump in America. Boris is fully aware of what his role is.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: omaghjoe on May 16, 2016, 05:50:34 AM
Dont worry armaghniac I'm sure life will go on just like it did after partition, the fall of the British empire, the Iron Curtain and god knows what other political upheavals over the years.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: omaghjoe on May 16, 2016, 05:59:53 AM
I love the way politics can never actually deal with facts without a diversion of some kind... the EU, Hitler and Napolean where/are trying to do the something similar, politically at least.

However on the one hand its not wrong just because Hitler tried it, and not impossible just because it has never been done before.

On the other hand comparing it to Hitler does not mean that he saying the EU are gonna kill 6million Jews.

So what Im trying to say is his article is irrelvant to the debate, but sure this is politics and comparisons to the Nazis will either win people over or turn them off. Would say it will win a fair few of them over TBH.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: omaghjoe on May 16, 2016, 06:02:02 AM
Where's deiseach on this? he usually has some good insights into the middle English menataliy
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on May 26, 2016, 11:25:05 AM
Nordies say "No" to Brexit.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/eu-referendum/eu-referendum-northern-ireland-says-no-to-brexit-34747509.html

The highest levels of support for Brexit were in Tyrone.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
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Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 07, 2016, 01:05:42 AM
Last day to register, Irish persons in Britain and people who were on the 6 counties roll in the last 15 years included.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: omaghjoe on June 07, 2016, 04:10:34 AM
Lets get the f**kers out once and for all
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 07, 2016, 10:52:08 AM
Lets get the f**kers out once and for all

Not funny.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: T Fearon on June 07, 2016, 11:18:49 AM
Getting closer.9/2 on Skybet a few weeks ago now a Brexit is 2/1 and 4/9 remain.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: bennydorano on June 07, 2016, 02:42:46 PM
The EU Polls section on the BBC News is very interesting, you can check the polls by polling companies. Some of the disparities are huge, remain +13 ahead down to Leave +1. Someone's obviously wrong.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: OgraAnDun on June 07, 2016, 07:02:40 PM
Going by the last GE, all of them are wrong.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: ashman on June 07, 2016, 09:13:52 PM
The EU Polls section on the BBC News is very interesting, you can check the polls by polling companies. Some of the disparities are huge, remain +13 ahead down to Leave +1. Someone's obviously wrong.

Political Opinion polling is going to have to look at itself. Getting a lot wrong.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Canalman on June 08, 2016, 10:16:12 AM
The EU Polls section on the BBC News is very interesting, you can check the polls by polling companies. Some of the disparities are huge, remain +13 ahead down to Leave +1. Someone's obviously wrong.

Political Opinion polling is going to have to look at itself. Getting a lot wrong.


Yep. Agree. Lifestyle changes, different ways of communicating, the internet, mobile phones,  economic effects on different demographics, property price rises/ crashes affecting people differently, voter indifference, commuting distances etc etc making it very difficult to get a proper snapshot of voters' intentions.

If they keep getting it wrong, they will just go out of business as no one will commission and pay for the polls.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: AQMP on June 08, 2016, 11:13:27 AM
The EU Polls section on the BBC News is very interesting, you can check the polls by polling companies. Some of the disparities are huge, remain +13 ahead down to Leave +1. Someone's obviously wrong.

Political Opinion polling is going to have to look at itself. Getting a lot wrong.

Yep. Agree. Lifestyle changes, different ways of communicating, the internet, mobile phones,  economic effects on different demographics, property price rises/ crashes affecting people differently, voter indifference, commuting distances etc etc making it very difficult to get a proper snapshot of voters' intentions.

If they keep getting it wrong, they will just go out of business as no one will commission and pay for the polls.

Yeah, these polls look to be all over the place.  I saw one last week that had Remain 9% ahead, on Monday one had Leave ahead by 5%.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: stew on June 08, 2016, 11:53:20 AM
They are going nowhere.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on June 08, 2016, 12:05:59 PM
Nigel 'Farridge' getting some backlash following the ITV debate when he belligerently told a woman to 'calm down' over the 'more migrants  - more sex attacks' claim.  Odious little Englander.  Let's hope the Brexiters' train comes off the rails in the next two weeks.


"Calls have been made for Nigel Farage to apologise for his sex attack comments, after he suggested women could be at risk from migrants if Britain stays in the EU.

Peers Sayeeda Warsi and Doreen Lawrence, along with Shami Chakrabarti, who chairs Labour's anti semitism inquiry, have written a letter to the Guardian attacking the Ukip leader.

Condemning his comments, the letter reads: "Spreading fear in this way is an age-old racist tool designed to stoke division about the latest group of immigrants arriving in Britain."

Referencing allegations that hundreds of women were groped and intimidated at Cologne central station on New Year's Eve, over the weekend Mr Farage claimed there were some "very big cultural issues".
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: yellowcard on June 08, 2016, 01:33:36 PM
The biggest weapon that the remain side have is the fact that so many odious characters like Nigel Farage, Donald Trump and Boris Johnson have been to the forefront for the 'leave' side.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Rossfan on June 08, 2016, 02:01:48 PM
The biggest weapon that the remain side have is the fact that so many odious characters like Nigel Farage, Donald Trump and Boris Johnson have been to the forefront for the 'leave' side.
If them plus the DUP and archbigot Allister are in favour of something..... it's obviously a bad thing ::)
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: T Fearon on June 08, 2016, 07:43:01 PM
I see David Williams at a debate in St Mary's College Belfast last night predicted a small majority win for the Brexit camp.He's usually correct.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 10, 2016, 11:32:18 AM
Where are the NI nationalist parties on this? Blair and Major made a good effort, the Irish government have spoke out, but what are the SDLP and SF doing? Are they so useless that they cannot manage to speak out in defence of the Good Friday agreement? If anything the UU have been more use. 
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on June 10, 2016, 11:54:02 AM
If only we had a credible Irish politician to speak to those disaffected Irish citizens who have a vote in this, are living in Britain and are considering a Leave vote.  If it's a vote on immigrants (which it appears to be at its lowest tabloid level), then they are immigrants too.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 10, 2016, 12:02:11 PM
If only we had a credible Irish politician to speak to those disaffected Irish citizens who have a vote in this, are living in Britain and are considering a Leave vote.  If it's a vote on immigrants (which it appears to be at its lowest tabloid level), then they are immigrants too.

If they are like that lube in the Mayo jersey interviewed on TV last week, they reckon that the fewer immigrants from the continent "taking people's jobs" the more there will be for Irish people!! They don't care what happens in Ireland as a consequence, despite the jersey wearing.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: naka on June 13, 2016, 10:09:16 AM
guys,
this could be tight enough,
I have a fair few English clients who just see Europe as a gravy train sucking all initiative out of UK.
they lament the increased faceless regulation, immigration( and these guys wouldn`t be classed as right wing) and the costs

was shocked because they are nearly all pressing for exit
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Orior on June 13, 2016, 10:23:26 AM
guys,
this could be tight enough,
I have a fair few English clients who just see Europe The Sick Counties as a gravy train sucking all initiative out of UK GB.
they lament the increased faceless regulation, immigration (and these guys wouldn`t be classed as right wing) and the costs

was shocked because they are nearly all pressing for exit

Is the above edit any better?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 13, 2016, 11:41:29 AM
guys,
this could be tight enough,

Very tight.

Quote
I have a fair few English clients who just see Europe as a gravy train sucking all initiative out of UK.
they lament the increased faceless regulation, immigration( and these guys wouldn`t be classed as right wing) and the costs

was shocked because they are nearly all pressing for exit

This is a largely bollix of course. The UK government is itself very keen on regulation, but they blame the EU for it. There has been more non-EU immigrants, who haven't integrated in many cases. Ireland has had a similar amount of EU immigration, but the EU immigrants are not seen as so a huge problem as they have spread throughout the country and mixed with the people, not formed into ghettos. As for the cost, it is about the same as 6 counties as Orior noted . Nowadays this money largely goes to eastern Europe, which needs some assistance after 45 years of Soviet occupation., the end of which was a core tenet of British foreign policy.

This is largely a fact free debate, which isn't encouraging.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 13, 2016, 12:15:07 PM
The debate is largely misinformed and mostly emotional.
Brexit is pointless.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: screenexile on June 13, 2016, 12:20:45 PM
The debate is largely misinformed and mostly emotional.
Brexit is pointless.

Indeed! Gove says his Father's fishing business went under because of the EU. . . no mention of the fact that the fish would have fuicking disappeared due to overfishing were it not for the EU stepping in!!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: naka on June 13, 2016, 12:35:22 PM
The debate is largely misinformed and mostly emotional.
Brexit is pointless.
it might be emotional but the leave campaigners are winning the shouting match
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: T Fearon on June 13, 2016, 07:38:07 PM
1/2 Stay 13/8 Leave.Shortest price on the leave outcome I've seen
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: AQMP on June 13, 2016, 08:14:43 PM
1/2 Stay 13/8 Leave.Shortest price on the leave outcome I've seen

It all depends where the money is going. If 1,000 people bet £1 on Remain and 1 person bets £2,000 on Leave the the bookies will lengthen the odds on Remain and/or shorten the odds on leave, even though there are more "votes" for remain
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 13, 2016, 08:34:58 PM
Since any rational objection is "scaremongering" it is hard for Remain to address the rot. It may well come down to turnout. It is important for the 6 counties and Scotland to get a different voice in there, this might swing it, but even if it does not it makes a point.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: T Fearon on June 13, 2016, 10:26:03 PM
Surely those chasing the United Ireland pipe dream should be in the Brexit camp and the inevitable break up of the UK such an outcome would precipitate? Then again it seems to be OK to cede sovereignty to the EU but not the Brits.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: OgraAnDun on June 13, 2016, 10:29:21 PM
Surely those chasing the United Ireland pipe dream should be in the Brexit camp and the inevitable break up of the UK such an outcome would precipitate? Then again it seems to be OK to cede sovereignty to the EU but not the Brits.

I think the SNP are hoping for a Brexit more than northern nationalists.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Farrandeelin on June 13, 2016, 11:01:05 PM
Surely those chasing the United Ireland pipe dream should be in the Brexit camp and the inevitable break up of the UK such an outcome would precipitate? Then again it seems to be OK to cede sovereignty to the EU but not the Brits.

I think the SNP are hoping for a Brexit more than northern nationalists.

It's a funny one alright. Scotland will more than likely vote to remain, but I'd say in the back of the SNP's minds they will hope for a Brexit. The situation is unclear with nationalists here. If there is a Brexit and the border controls come back, that would mean hassle for a lot of people.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 13, 2016, 11:02:55 PM
Surely those chasing the United Ireland pipe dream should be in the Brexit camp and the inevitable break up of the UK such an outcome would precipitate? Then again it seems to be OK to cede sovereignty to the EU but not the Brits.

There is a difference between sharing a house and having a landlord who stole your house and turned you into a tenant.

I think the SNP are hoping for a Brexit more than northern nationalists.

If any northern nationalist is hoping for a Brexit then they haven't thought about it.
The SNP have done the work of (largely) establishing how an independent Scotland would work and the ground work to make it possible. NI nationalists have done none of this.

Probably the "best" outcome would be a close result, where Scotland and NI were material to the result and the differences between them and England were made clear, without any precipitate action.

It's a funny one alright. Scotland will more than likely vote to remain, but I'd say in the back of the SNP's minds they will hope for a Brexit. The situation is unclear with nationalists here. If there is a Brexit and the border controls come back, that would mean hassle for a lot of people.

As above, what the SNP needs to a good gap between Scotland and England.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: omaghjoe on June 14, 2016, 07:07:29 AM
Good news, we can all vote them out now safe in the knowledge that it will help the Irish economy.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0614/795400-brexit-esri-corporation-tax/
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 14, 2016, 07:37:51 AM
If Carson and Craig could return now what would they make of NI? The protestant industries all collapsed. Dublin is far bigger and far wealthier than Belfast. The bigotry blew up in 1969 and is still hurting economically. England lost the Empire. The British economy is a mess.
Politics are subject to macro.
 
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: naka on June 14, 2016, 08:31:11 AM
It's amazing how the dup are pushing for it knowing it could break the union.( with the scots pulling out) although the economic argument for independence isn't as strong now that oil has crashed.
The shinners I believe fear  be exit and border controls minimal or otherwise because it really copper fastens the idea of two separate countries .
The next few days will be good craic.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: No wides on June 14, 2016, 08:56:29 AM
If Carson and Craig could return now what would they make of NI? The protestant industries all collapsed. Dublin is far bigger and far wealthier than Belfast. The bigotry blew up in 1969 and is still hurting economically. England lost the Empire. The British economy is a mess.
Politics are subject to macro.

Is it really?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 14, 2016, 09:08:12 AM
If Carson and Craig could return now what would they make of NI? The protestant industries all collapsed. Dublin is far bigger and far wealthier than Belfast. The bigotry blew up in 1969 and is still hurting economically. England lost the Empire. The British economy is a mess.
Politics are subject to macro.

Is it really?
7% trade deficit is exports more valuable than imports
5% budget deficit ie spending higher than taxes
Massive housing bubble
North of England poorer than any region in Ireland
Risible economic growth
No growth driver
Falling productivity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN9EC3Gy6Nk

Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: yellowcard on June 14, 2016, 09:34:53 AM
Brexit has gained huge momentum in the last week and it is looking like it is possible now. Another odious character Rupert Murdoch has now come out in favour of it and he has a track record of backing the winner in elections dating back to the 1970's. I never thought it was possible up until now largely due to the fact that we are somewhat sheltered over here from general public opinion in the main population centres, but it's certainly time to start taking the Brexit side serious as it now looks like a distinct possibility.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 14, 2016, 09:55:33 AM
It's amazing how the dup are pushing for it knowing it could break the union.( with the scots pulling out) although the economic argument for independence isn't as strong now that oil has crashed.

The DUP are poorly led, Robinson would not have done come out in favour of Brexit, or indeed Paisley. Foster represents Fermanagh, a place largely dependent on agriculture and cross border trade, yet she cannot manage to represent her own constituency. Just as Cameron was driven to this by UKIP, the DUP just took the policy of the TUV. Hopefully some people who might have voted DUP, farmers and the like, will either vote against or will be too busy on the day to get to vote.
The UU have managed a nuanced view, so we are back to the Good Friday Agreement  situation of the DUP trying to keep the place in turmoil. Unfortunately some half baked "nationalists" will vote against while others won't get off their arse. Let's hope the middle of the road folk who don't always vote make an effort.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: DuffleKing on June 14, 2016, 09:57:16 AM

Can someone explain to me why a northern nationalist would vote to remain?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 14, 2016, 10:05:03 AM

Can someone explain to me why a northern nationalist would vote to remain?

Because the EU has provided an invaluable non controversial mechanism for coordinating the island of Ireland and improving the economy in the 6 counties.

You could take the view that  restoring customs etc would emphasise the need for a united Ireland, but since the work to design a UI has not been done and we lack politicians capable of doing this then it would simply restart violence.

As I said, a strong remain vote contrasted with a leave in England sends a strong message that we are not England.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: yellowcard on June 14, 2016, 10:20:16 AM

Can someone explain to me why a northern nationalist would vote to remain?

I wouldn't profess to having researched this in any great detail but there are a few reasons I'd be voting to stay:

1) Look at the type of character that wants to leave. Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, Rupert Murdoch, Donald Trump, Jim Allister, DUP cronies. This on its own is enough me to convince to stay.
2) Economically Westminster will have even less regard for the 6 counties than they already have if they have increased powers.
3) Potential for increased border controls

Constitutionally I'm not sure what the impact would be but I don't think anyone can predict this with any great certainty.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 14, 2016, 11:10:30 AM
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/399e4056-2e3a-11e6-a18d-a96ab29e3c95.html



June 9, 2016 7:36 pm

Northern Ireland cannot afford a British EU exit


Reimposition of a north-south border threatens the peace process


Britain’s EU referendum campaign is dominated by arguments over the economy and migration. But the outcome will also have significant consequences for the unity of the United Kingdom. Here, much of the political debate is focused on the implications for Scottish independence and the well-founded fear that a vote to leave could trigger a second referendum.

Too little attention is paid to the threat Brexit poses to stability in Northern Ireland. Nearly two decades after the signing of the Good Friday agreement, the Northern Ireland peace process stands as a remarkable, if fragile, political achievement.





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In the decades before the 1998 pact, some 3,600 people were murdered in sectarian violence. Today, the province enjoys a calm and prosperity that would have once been unimaginable, an accomplishment for which two former British prime ministers, John Major and Tony Blair, deserve much credit. As both declared on a visit to the province on Thursday, Brexit would put the settlement at risk.

The UK’s departure from the EU would bring back a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic, an EU member state. Since the Good Friday agreement, the old dividing line imposed at Irish partition in 1922 has virtually disappeared. The free movement of people and goods between north and south is a powerful symbol of how the communities of Ireland are now at ease with each other.

If Britain votes to leave, the 310-mile border will become the UK’s sole land frontier with the EU. Immigration controls would have to be reimposed to prevent EU nationals from entering the UK through a “back door” route.

The EU would have to apply customs controls on the UK, which would almost certainly have to leave the single market.

The Leave campaign downplays the consequences, insisting that a common travel area would remain safely in place. Given that one of the campaign’s main slogans is “take back control of our borders”, this reassurance cannot be taken seriously.

The return of a hard frontier between north and south could be a significant setback for the peace process. The fraught debate over Irish unity would rear its head again, giving voice to the hardliners among unionists and republicans.




How accurate are the Brexit polls?
 
File photo dated 02/06/16 of a polling card and voting guide for the 2016 EU referendum, as new figures show that the referendum could end as a dead heat between Remain and Leave if the difference in turnout between young and old voters mirrors the 2015 general election. PRESS ASSOCIATION Photo. Issue date: Tuesday June 7, 2016. The findings come as time is running out for people to register to vote in the referendum, with the deadline for applications 11.59pm tonight. See PA story POLITICS EU Turnout. Photo credit should read: Yui Mok/PA Wire

After failing to predict the 2015 election, the polling industry still has questions to resolve

The imposition of customs controls would inflict economic harm. The unhampered flow of goods between north and south, worth about €3bn a year, has benefited both sides. Undermining the trade would be especially damaging for Northern Ireland since the Republic is its biggest trading partner. It would also set back the economic convergence between north and south that has underpinned the peace.

The EU has been the vessel through which many of Europe’s nations have resolved their longstanding enmities. This applies particularly to Britain and Ireland. When Belfast was consumed by the “Troubles” in the 1970s, politicians in London and Dublin barely knew each other. Ireland was not in Nato or the Commonwealth.

The common forum for both states became Brussels, where the two countries have joined hands over many policy issues. It is a setting which has fostered a climate of trust and respect.

In Britain’s raucous referendum debate, the future of the province will make few headlines. But that should not detract from what is at stake. Northern Ireland is one of the few examples of a peaceful resolution to what seemed an intractable sectarian conflict. Reimposing a border on the island of Ireland is an immense price to pay for Britain to leave the EU.

Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 14, 2016, 11:16:53 AM
Why does the DUP support Brexit? Does anyone in the DUP understand how the real world works ?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: AQMP on June 14, 2016, 11:23:24 AM
Why does the DUP support Brexit? Does anyone in the DUP understand how the real world works ?

Because they think Brexit will lead to greater separation between NI and RoI and they think that will play well with their base suport
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: blewuporstuffed on June 14, 2016, 11:25:29 AM
Why does the DUP support Brexit? Does anyone in the DUP understand how the real world works ?

Because they think Brexit will lead to greater separation between NI and RoI and they think that will play well with their base suport

Their argument that  Brexit will not have a negative impact on cross border trade or movement is farcical.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 14, 2016, 11:55:16 AM
Why does the DUP support Brexit? Does anyone in the DUP understand how the real world works ?

Because they think Brexit will lead to greater separation between NI and RoI and they think that will play well with their base suport
who will.lose money
And the UK might break up

Cutting off NI's nose to spite its face
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: vallankumous on June 14, 2016, 11:57:29 AM
Why does the DUP support Brexit? Does anyone in the DUP understand how the real world works ?

Because they think Brexit will lead to greater separation between NI and RoI and they think that will play well with their base suport
who will.lose money
And the UK might break up

Cutting off NI's nose to spite its face

Or even more likely nothing will happen at all.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Rossfan on June 14, 2016, 12:03:08 PM
does anyone in the DUP understand how the real world works ?

They do - once it's the 17th century world. :(
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Applesisapples on June 14, 2016, 12:18:25 PM
Why does the DUP support Brexit? Does anyone in the DUP understand how the real world works ?

Because they think Brexit will lead to greater separation between NI and RoI and they think that will play well with their base suport
Unionists also tend to vote with their gut and see everything in black and white. Thats why they will vote Brexit at heart the are British Nationalists and intrinisically xenophobic  and economics doesn't come in to it. Forster is one of the worst examples of this type of unionism, First Minister for al my a**e.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: screenexile on June 14, 2016, 12:28:31 PM
Why does the DUP support Brexit? Does anyone in the DUP understand how the real world works ?

Because they think Brexit will lead to greater separation between NI and RoI and they think that will play well with their base suport
Unionists also tend to vote with their gut and see everything in black and white. Thats why they will vote Brexit at heart the are British Nationalists and intrinisically xenophobic  and economics doesn't come in to it. Forster is one of the worst examples of this type of unionism, First Minister for al my a**e.

Yeah they see it as pulling away from the Republic which should strengthen them... I doubt it.

In reality a fair chunk of the North will vote to stay in expecially Nationalists and a fair chunk of Unionism, I can't see the Farmer's foregoing their single farm payment.

I still expect the status quo to hold although it will be very very close!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: vallankumous on June 14, 2016, 02:22:14 PM
Why does the DUP support Brexit? Does anyone in the DUP understand how the real world works ?

Because they think Brexit will lead to greater separation between NI and RoI and they think that will play well with their base suport
Unionists also tend to vote with their gut and see everything in black and white. Thats why they will vote Brexit at heart the are British Nationalists and intrinisically xenophobic  and economics doesn't come in to it. Forster is one of the worst examples of this type of unionism, First Minister for al my a**e.

Yeah they see it as pulling away from the Republic which should strengthen them... I doubt it.

In reality a fair chunk of the North will vote to stay in expecially Nationalists and a fair chunk of Unionism, I can't see the Farmer's foregoing their single farm payment.

I still expect the status quo to hold although it will be very very close!

Little matter of geography they may be overlooking.

Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Tony Baloney on June 14, 2016, 02:36:54 PM
This needs a poll. I think the north will be clear majority voting to remain but appears to be tighter across the water. After recent elections and Scottish independence vote I'm ignoring the fact that polls have Leave ahead. I still think Remain will win fairly comfortably.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: blewuporstuffed on June 14, 2016, 03:04:19 PM
This needs a poll. I think the north will be clear majority voting to remain but appears to be tighter across the water. After recent elections and Scottish independence vote I'm ignoring the fact that polls have Leave ahead. I still think Remain will win fairly comfortably.

I agree , but the trouble is, the northern vote is of little significance in the scheme of things due to our population.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 14, 2016, 03:11:28 PM
This needs a poll. I think the north will be clear majority voting to remain but appears to be tighter across the water. After recent elections and Scottish independence vote I'm ignoring the fact that polls have Leave ahead. I still think Remain will win fairly comfortably.

I agree , but the trouble is, the northern vote is of little significance in the scheme of things due to our population.

However, many of the polls haven't included NI nor overseas citizens with a postal vote and a lot of these have registered. These together amount to 5% of the electorate and are likely to be in the 65-70%  region for Remain. So GB could be 51% for Leave and the offshore element would make it 49.9%! That would be fine with me.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: muppet on June 14, 2016, 03:37:50 PM

Can someone explain to me why a northern nationalist would vote to remain?

I wouldn't profess to having researched this in any great detail but there are a few reasons I'd be voting to stay:

1) Look at the type of character that wants to leave. Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, Rupert Murdoch, Donald Trump, Jim Allister, DUP cronies. This on its own is enough me to convince to stay.
2) Economically Westminster will have even less regard for the 6 counties than they already have if they have increased powers.
3) Potential for increased border controls

Constitutionally I'm not sure what the impact would be but I don't think anyone can predict this with any great certainty.

This line speaks volumes.

Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: omaghjoe on June 14, 2016, 04:14:39 PM

Can someone explain to me why a northern nationalist would vote to remain?

I wouldn't profess to having researched this in any great detail but there are a few reasons I'd be voting to stay:

1) Look at the type of character that wants to leave. Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, Rupert Murdoch, Donald Trump, Jim Allister, DUP cronies. This on its own is enough me to convince to stay.
2) Economically Westminster will have even less regard for the 6 counties than they already have if they have increased powers.
3) Potential for increased border controls

Constitutionally I'm not sure what the impact would be but I don't think anyone can predict this with any great certainty.

This line speaks volumes.

Voting on the basis of the character of a cause's supporters as opposed to the actual cause itself?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: gallsman on June 14, 2016, 04:18:45 PM

Can someone explain to me why a northern nationalist would vote to remain?

I wouldn't profess to having researched this in any great detail but there are a few reasons I'd be voting to stay:

1) Look at the type of character that wants to leave. Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, Rupert Murdoch, Donald Trump, Jim Allister, DUP cronies. This on its own is enough me to convince to stay.
2) Economically Westminster will have even less regard for the 6 counties than they already have if they have increased powers.
3) Potential for increased border controls

Constitutionally I'm not sure what the impact would be but I don't think anyone can predict this with any great certainty.

This line speaks volumes.

Voting on the basis of the character of a cause's supporters as opposed to the actual cause itself?

There are worse ideas.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Tony Baloney on June 14, 2016, 04:29:42 PM

Can someone explain to me why a northern nationalist would vote to remain?

I wouldn't profess to having researched this in any great detail but there are a few reasons I'd be voting to stay:

1) Look at the type of character that wants to leave. Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, Rupert Murdoch, Donald Trump, Jim Allister, DUP cronies. This on its own is enough me to convince to stay.
2) Economically Westminster will have even less regard for the 6 counties than they already have if they have increased powers.
3) Potential for increased border controls

Constitutionally I'm not sure what the impact would be but I don't think anyone can predict this with any great certainty.

This line speaks volumes.

Voting on the basis of the character of a cause's supporters as opposed to the actual cause itself?

There are worse ideas.
Indeed. When you see the line - up above you don't need to read a manifesto.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Applesisapples on June 14, 2016, 04:33:07 PM
I frankly don't know what a Brexit will mean for me personally or for NI. I am not convinced by the benefits that the Leave campaign espouse. I suppose in the round I don't want to take the risk. I don't want to see border controls at Newry and Strabane. The most cogent argument I heard was from an economist who stated that the trade deal the British would get as a single economy with China, India etc... would not be as good as the EU. The Norwegian situation where they have to pay into the EU and adopt regulations to be able to trade whilst not having the say that Britain has as a major power has never been addressed by leave campaigners. I don't believe either that the UK treasury will merrily hand over the cash to farmers that the EU does.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: T Fearon on June 14, 2016, 04:33:58 PM
Momentum with Brexit side.No one in England uses their brains when it comes to this election.Labour voters not enthused by agreeing with Cameron and Labour Party itself scared after damage done to it by supporting stay camp in Scottish referendum.Those who wish to vote out highly motivated unlike those who wish to stay.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: dec on June 14, 2016, 04:38:06 PM
It would be amusing if England voted out but Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland gave Remain the majority. Maybe they could kick England out of the UK.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: T Fearon on June 14, 2016, 04:43:28 PM
Even DUP MPs have admitted to me privately that NI isn't on the radar at Westminster.I think the Brexit campaign will get the vote out and even French Police beating the crap out of their hooligans strengthens the case for the brain dead to vote out
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: AQMP on June 14, 2016, 04:55:20 PM
I frankly don't know what a Brexit will mean for me personally or for NI. I am not convinced by the benefits that the Leave campaign espouse. I suppose in the round I don't want to take the risk. I don't want to see border controls at Newry and Strabane. The most cogent argument I heard was from an economist who stated that the trade deal the British would get as a single economy with China, India etc... would not be as good as the EU. The Norwegian situation where they have to pay into the EU and adopt regulations to be able to trade whilst not having the say that Britain has as a major power has never been addressed by leave campaigners. I don't believe either that the UK treasury will merrily hand over the cash to farmers that the EU does.

Haven't Leave said that the extra money will go to the NHS...even though they don't get to determine where any surplus goes.  I have to laugh at Gisela Stewart (an immigrant herself...even worse German!), saying "We'll invest the money here there and everywhere..." even though she's in opposition!  A lot of the arguments from Leave treat this as if it were a General Election.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 14, 2016, 05:21:59 PM
Even DUP MPs have admitted to me privately that NI isn't on the radar at Westminster.

I suspect some of the more sane DUP people reckoned this was just a bit of harmless bigotry and that the Remain would win, and are now slightly apprehensive of getting what they asked for. 


Quote
I think the Brexit campaign will get the vote out and even French Police beating the crap out of their hooligans strengthens the case for the brain dead to vote out

With the vote next week they may be able to close the border and leave the hooligans there.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: yellowcard on June 14, 2016, 05:43:20 PM

Can someone explain to me why a northern nationalist would vote to remain?

I wouldn't profess to having researched this in any great detail but there are a few reasons I'd be voting to stay:

1) Look at the type of character that wants to leave. Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, Rupert Murdoch, Donald Trump, Jim Allister, DUP cronies. This on its own is enough me to convince to stay.
2) Economically Westminster will have even less regard for the 6 counties than they already have if they have increased powers.
3) Potential for increased border controls

Constitutionally I'm not sure what the impact would be but I don't think anyone can predict this with any great certainty.

This line speaks volumes.

Voting on the basis of the character of a cause's supporters as opposed to the actual cause itself?

What these people represent is by and large totally at odds with my own views and hence that's why I dislike them in the first place.

Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 14, 2016, 06:10:59 PM
I frankly don't know what a Brexit will mean for me personally or for NI. I am not convinced by the benefits that the Leave campaign espouse. I suppose in the round I don't want to take the risk. I don't want to see border controls at Newry and Strabane. The most cogent argument I heard was from an economist who stated that the trade deal the British would get as a single economy with China, India etc... would not be as good as the EU. The Norwegian situation where they have to pay into the EU and adopt regulations to be able to trade whilst not having the say that Britain has as a major power has never been addressed by leave campaigners. I don't believe either that the UK treasury will merrily hand over the cash to farmers that the EU does.
regions will be neglected if brexit wins . Cornwall gets Euro funding that London would never fund
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: AQMP on June 14, 2016, 06:15:24 PM
I frankly don't know what a Brexit will mean for me personally or for NI. I am not convinced by the benefits that the Leave campaign espouse. I suppose in the round I don't want to take the risk. I don't want to see border controls at Newry and Strabane. The most cogent argument I heard was from an economist who stated that the trade deal the British would get as a single economy with China, India etc... would not be as good as the EU. The Norwegian situation where they have to pay into the EU and adopt regulations to be able to trade whilst not having the say that Britain has as a major power has never been addressed by leave campaigners. I don't believe either that the UK treasury will merrily hand over the cash to farmers that the EU does.
regions will be neglected if brexit wins . Cornwall gets Euro funding that London would never fund

Exactly, how far up the list of priorities do you think a hill farmer in the Sperrins will be if London gets to choose where all the money goes?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: T Fearon on June 14, 2016, 06:29:57 PM
Latest odds. 4/6 remain 5/4 leave.I'd expect the Leave camp to be odds on favourites shortly
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Rossfan on June 14, 2016, 07:09:23 PM
Will you then start your " northernirish" party and agitate for independence Tony?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 14, 2016, 07:27:21 PM
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/14/brexit-will-hurt-your-city-labour-tells-core-voters-but-no-ones-listening
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 14, 2016, 07:28:09 PM
Momentum with Brexit side.No one in England uses their brains when it comes to this election.Labour voters not enthused by agreeing with Cameron and Labour Party itself scared after damage done to it by supporting stay camp in Scottish referendum.Those who wish to vote out highly motivated unlike those who wish to stay.
there was a big surge for no in the scottish referendum in the last day
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: screenexile on June 14, 2016, 08:10:25 PM
Have polls not been wrong in the general, Scottish referendum and the European elections recently??
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: bennydorano on June 14, 2016, 08:29:34 PM
Until recently I was convinced of a comfortable Stay majority, but from speaking to a lot of people recently I've been very surprised at the animosity towards Turkey and the closer and nastier this vote gets the more (even more - to be accurate) the race / immigrants  issue will be front and centre. It's the Leave campaigns trump card and I would even reckon polls are underestimating  the strength of the Leave lead as people dont tell pollsters their racial prejudices but will vote accordingly in the privacy of a polling booth.

Corbyn really needs to get the finger out as well.  Worst leader ever of any political party.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: muppet on June 14, 2016, 08:32:32 PM
Watching French police and Russian fans battering English fans might be having a negative effect on the very dim.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: omaghjoe on June 14, 2016, 08:54:03 PM

Can someone explain to me why a northern nationalist would vote to remain?

I wouldn't profess to having researched this in any great detail but there are a few reasons I'd be voting to stay:

1) Look at the type of character that wants to leave. Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, Rupert Murdoch, Donald Trump, Jim Allister, DUP cronies. This on its own is enough me to convince to stay.
2) Economically Westminster will have even less regard for the 6 counties than they already have if they have increased powers.
3) Potential for increased border controls

Constitutionally I'm not sure what the impact would be but I don't think anyone can predict this with any great certainty.

This line speaks volumes.

Voting on the basis of the character of a cause's supporters as opposed to the actual cause itself?

What these people represent is by and large totally at odds with my own views and hence that's why I dislike them in the first place.

Thats fine and well but then do you just become opposed to everything they stand for just because its them?

I actually think a similar criteria being used by alot of brexiters....

Cameron and Osborne "toffs who have no idea what its like for he ordinary man"
Blair "War monger"
Cobyrn "Communist"
Brown "Scotch twat"

I think the reason is because no one actually knows what will really happen...In says it will be terrible, Out says it will be crap. But no one really actually knows for sure, so people just vote on their gut and personalities.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: omaghjoe on June 14, 2016, 08:57:50 PM
As a good example "in" says there will be financial turmoil from the uncertainty.

But then actually the ECB leaked this morning that they will shore up the markets on the Friday morning along with the BoE
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 14, 2016, 09:23:17 PM
As a good example "in" says there will be financial turmoil from the uncertainty.

But then actually the ECB leaked this morning that they will shore up the markets on the Friday morning along with the BoE

So what is the point here, there will be problems but the authorities won't ignore them but will try and do something?

In related news a lot of people will be shot in America, but the authorities will improve the ambulance service so they don't all die.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: bennydorano on June 14, 2016, 09:24:30 PM
The big problem is that there could be years of financial uncertainty for mortgages, investment, sterling, credit ratings, guaranteed recession. The immediate aftermath shouldn't be anything uncontainable.

Peoples biggest fear should be what the Tories unfettered by EU Regulations are capable of doing. Labour are probably a decade away from being electable again with their brightest prospect tied up in London for the forseeable future as well.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 14, 2016, 09:27:17 PM
The big problem is that there could be years of financial uncertainty for mortgages, investment, sterling, credit ratings, guaranteed recession. The immediate aftermath shouldn't be anything uncontainable.

It wouldn't necessarily be "big" stuff, just companies postponing an investment, delaying taking on staff, hesitating about the new office... All adding up to a slowdown until the dust clears.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: OgraAnDun on June 14, 2016, 11:00:30 PM
I can understand some of the ideological arguments for leaving the EU, including a reclaiming of national sovereignty, freedom from TTIP which looks like it might be forced through the EU, and a shift away from neo-liberal politics which the EU is championing. However, Switzerland and Norway have to adhere to pretty much all the legislation with virtually no input into the legislative process. Essentially, Brits will be leaving the table but still having to follow the adult's rules.

Leaving the EU will be an economic disaster, as the UK goes towards the back of the queue for trade deals, and the above problems (as regards EU legislation) could become even worse as Berlin dominates procedures even more so than it does at the minute. Plenty of large businesses have said they will relocate and I think that small ones will also feel the pinch.

I think that many nationalists (Scottish and Irish) that are lukewarm to the idea of a Brexit believe the old adage that 'England's difficulty is Ireland's (Scotland's) opportunity'. In Ireland, I think that many American multinationals will move to Dublin - we speak the same language as those Stateside, the culture is similar and the start of a working day in California is the end of it in Ireland, compared to an hour after it's finished in Paris or Dusseldorf. In Scotland, a UK out of the EU is bound to be more than enough to swing a future vote on Scottish independence to an out vote.

In the north, it all depends on whether you believe the British government and the English people have the stomach to impose a hard border between the 6 and 26 counties. I personally don't believe they do. I think the Tories - especially those in the Brexit camp - are more than willing to finally get rid of the north and its petty squabbles once and for all, especially with Scotland gone and it really is just England left in the mix. As someone said earlier in this thread (I think), border posts in South Armagh are followed quickly by the phrase 'sitting ducks'. In this case, the UK's external borders move to Holyhead and British airports, finally confirming the idea that the north is NOT part of Britain. Moderate unionists will also swing round to the idea of a united Ireland, especially when they look at a liberal, modern and (hopefully) prosperous south and compare it with the Little Englanders version of the UK.

In the event of a hard border being imposed (unlikely), I believe it will push a lot of Catholics who like the status quo back to nationalism, as they will bitterly resent being stopped and searched every time they want to cross the border, which for a lot of people, is multiple times a day if not a week. For example, from Newry to Clones, a car crosses the border 3 times each way if they go via Castleblayney.


However, I think it's all irrelevant. On polling day, anyone who is currently a 'don't know' - of whom there are a sizeable enough portion, will give in to the devil they do rather than the devil they don't, and vote to stay in the EU.


EDIT: I should probably also say that Scotland leaving the UK also leaves the unionists here with a bit of an identity crisis. They were so scared of it the last time, they even wanted voters in the north to get a vote. They call their accent 'Ulster Scots' rather than 'Ulster English'. Anything that weakens their arguments for unionism should be welcomed by nationalism.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 14, 2016, 11:52:20 PM
Unfortunately, it isn't clear that Scotland will move even if there is a Brexit. One problem with this is that it might throw the nature of arrangements between Scotland and England into confusion also and a giant customs station at Gretna does not make any more sense than one at Killeen, although it is probably less likely that someone will fire mortars at it.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: muppet on June 14, 2016, 11:56:16 PM
I can understand some of the ideological arguments for leaving the EU, including a reclaiming of national sovereignty, freedom from TTIP which looks like it might be forced through the EU, and a shift away from neo-liberal politics which the EU is championing. However, Switzerland and Norway have to adhere to pretty much all the legislation with virtually no input into the legislative process. Essentially, Brits will be leaving the table but still having to follow the adult's rules.

Leaving the EU will be an economic disaster, as the UK goes towards the back of the queue for trade deals, and the above problems (as regards EU legislation) could become even worse as Berlin dominates procedures even more so than it does at the minute. Plenty of large businesses have said they will relocate and I think that small ones will also feel the pinch.

I think that many nationalists (Scottish and Irish) that are lukewarm to the idea of a Brexit believe the old adage that 'England's difficulty is Ireland's (Scotland's) opportunity'. In Ireland, I think that many American multinationals will move to Dublin - we speak the same language as those Stateside, the culture is similar and the start of a working day in California is the end of it in Ireland, compared to an hour after it's finished in Paris or Dusseldorf. In Scotland, a UK out of the EU is bound to be more than enough to swing a future vote on Scottish independence to an out vote.

In the north, it all depends on whether you believe the British government and the English people have the stomach to impose a hard border between the 6 and 26 counties. I personally don't believe they do. I think the Tories - especially those in the Brexit camp - are more than willing to finally get rid of the north and its petty squabbles once and for all, especially with Scotland gone and it really is just England left in the mix. As someone said earlier in this thread (I think), border posts in South Armagh are followed quickly by the phrase 'sitting ducks'. In this case, the UK's external borders move to Holyhead and British airports, finally confirming the idea that the north is NOT part of Britain. Moderate unionists will also swing round to the idea of a united Ireland, especially when they look at a liberal, modern and (hopefully) prosperous south and compare it with the Little Englanders version of the UK.

In the event of a hard border being imposed (unlikely), I believe it will push a lot of Catholics who like the status quo back to nationalism, as they will bitterly resent being stopped and searched every time they want to cross the border, which for a lot of people, is multiple times a day if not a week. For example, from Newry to Clones, a car crosses the border 3 times each way if they go via Castleblayney.


However, I think it's all irrelevant. On polling day, anyone who is currently a 'don't know' - of whom there are a sizeable enough portion, will give in to the devil they do rather than the devil they don't, and vote to stay in the EU.


EDIT: I should probably also say that Scotland leaving the UK also leaves the unionists here with a bit of an identity crisis. They were so scared of it the last time, they even wanted voters in the north to get a vote. They call their accent 'Ulster Scots' rather than 'Ulster English'. Anything that weakens their arguments for unionism should be welcomed by nationalism.

What, like Foot & Mouth?

Only joking.

I like this:

Quote
Essentially, Brits will be leaving the table but still having to follow the adult's rules.


Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: OgraAnDun on June 15, 2016, 12:02:24 AM
They have a habit of sticking their foot in their mouth anyway.


Unfortunately, it isn't clear that Scotland will move even if there is a Brexit. One problem with this is that it might throw the nature of arrangements between Scotland and England into confusion also and a giant customs station at Gretna does not make any more sense than one at Killeen, although it is probably less likely that someone will fire mortars at it.

I think that Scots will definitely vote to leave in the event of a Brexit. If Britain wants some sort of free trade deal with the EU, they may have to succumb to free movement of citizens anyway which renders border posts redundant. Whether or not they will agree to that in four or five years depends on who is in power - left to see how big a mistake they've made, Labour could well be voted back in. Either way it just goes to show the sheer stupidity in voting for a Brexit. I dislike the EU but it's economic suicide to leave.

If the above outline (re; no border posts in Ireland, MNCs moving to Dublin etc) does come to pass, the best result for anyone that wants to see the breakup of the U.K. would be a Brexit with a heavy 'In' vote in the 6C and in Scotland.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: longballin on June 15, 2016, 10:46:42 AM
I think the stay-in camp will pull a huge scare tactic out of the hat in the last day or two before the vote and people will be afraid to go through with it... similar to Scottish referendum. Anything The Sun, Farage and Borris support can't be good
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: No wides on June 15, 2016, 10:57:19 AM
They have a habit of sticking their foot in their mouth anyway.


Unfortunately, it isn't clear that Scotland will move even if there is a Brexit. One problem with this is that it might throw the nature of arrangements between Scotland and England into confusion also and a giant customs station at Gretna does not make any more sense than one at Killeen, although it is probably less likely that someone will fire mortars at it.

I think that Scots will definitely vote to leave in the event of a Brexit. If Britain wants some sort of free trade deal with the EU, they may have to succumb to free movement of citizens anyway which renders border posts redundant. Whether or not they will agree to that in four or five years depends on who is in power - left to see how big a mistake they've made, Labour could well be voted back in. Either way it just goes to show the sheer stupidity in voting for a Brexit. I dislike the EU but it's economic suicide to leave.

If the above outline (re; no border posts in Ireland, MNCs moving to Dublin etc) does come to pass, the best result for anyone that wants to see the breakup of the U.K. would be a Brexit with a heavy 'In' vote in the 6C and in Scotland.

Surely parliament has to grant them another referendum?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: take_yer_points on June 15, 2016, 11:11:13 AM

Can someone explain to me why a northern nationalist would vote to remain?

I wouldn't profess to having researched this in any great detail but there are a few reasons I'd be voting to stay:

1) Look at the type of character that wants to leave. Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, Rupert Murdoch, Donald Trump, Jim Allister, DUP cronies. This on its own is enough me to convince to stay.
2) Economically Westminster will have even less regard for the 6 counties than they already have if they have increased powers.
3) Potential for increased border controls

Constitutionally I'm not sure what the impact would be but I don't think anyone can predict this with any great certainty.

This line speaks volumes.

Voting on the basis of the character of a cause's supporters as opposed to the actual cause itself?

What these people represent is by and large totally at odds with my own views and hence that's why I dislike them in the first place.

Saw this on facebook:


A good friend of mine came up with a great idea. If you don't have the time/inclination to find out all the facts about the EU referendum (I don't blame you) and are possibly unsure which way to vote, perhaps knowing how other notable people are thinking could help out.

Here are a few that strongly believe the UK should remain a member of the EU:

• Governor of the Bank of England
• International Monetary Fund
• Institute for Fiscal Studies
• Confederation of British Industry
• Leaders/heads of state of every single other member of the EU
• President of the United States of America
• Eight former US Treasury Secretaries
• President of China
• Prime Minister of India
• Prime Minister of Canada
• Prime Minister of Australia
• Prime Minister of Japan
• Prime Minister of New Zealand
• The chief executives of most of the top 100 companies in the UK including Marks and Spencer, BT, Asda, Vodafone, Virgin, IBM, BMW etc.
• Kofi Annan, the former Secretary General of the United Nations
• All living former Prime Ministers of the UK (from both parties)
• Virtually all reputable and recognised economists
• The Prime Minister of the UK
• The leader of the Labour Party
• The Leader of the Liberal Democrats
• The Leader of the Green Party
• The Leader of the Scottish National Party
• The leader of Plaid Cymru
• Leader of Sinn Fein
• Martin Lewis, that money saving dude off the telly
• The Secretary General of the TUC
• Unison
• National Union of Students
• National Union of Farmers
• Stephen Hawking
• Chief Executive of the NHS
• 300 of the most prominent international historians
• Director of Europol
• David Anderson QC, Independent Reviewer of Terrorism Legislation
• Former Directors of GCHQ
• Secretary General of Nato
• Church of England
• Church in Scotland
• Church in Wales
• Friends of the Earth
• Greenpeace
• Director General of the World Trade Organisation
• WWF
• World Bank
• OECD

Here are pretty much the only notable people who think we should leave the EU:

• Boris Johnson, who probably doesn’t really care either way, but knows he’ll become Prime Minister if the country votes to leave
• A former Secretary of State for Work and Pensions who carried out a brutal regime of cuts to benefits and essential support for the poorest in society as well as the disabled and sick
• That idiot that was Education Secretary and every single teacher in the country hated with a furious passion for the damage he was doing to the education system
• Leader of UKIP
• BNP
• Britain First
• Donald Trump
• Keith Chegwin
• David Icke

So, as I said, if you can’t be bothered to look into the real facts and implications of all this in/out stuff, just pick the list that you most trust and vote that way. It really couldn’t be more simple.

And if you are unsure about leaving, don't.

Please repost this list, if you think it might help.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Rossfan on June 15, 2016, 11:28:51 AM
Are the British Government bound by the outcome if it's a leave vote?
A referendum in the 26 Cos is to amend a written Constitution which can only be done by popular vote.
What status has the Brit's referendum?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Hardy on June 15, 2016, 11:30:49 AM

Can someone explain to me why a northern nationalist would vote to remain?

I wouldn't profess to having researched this in any great detail but there are a few reasons I'd be voting to stay:

1) Look at the type of character that wants to leave. Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, Rupert Murdoch, Donald Trump, Jim Allister, DUP cronies. This on its own is enough me to convince to stay.
2) Economically Westminster will have even less regard for the 6 counties than they already have if they have increased powers.
3) Potential for increased border controls

Constitutionally I'm not sure what the impact would be but I don't think anyone can predict this with any great certainty.

This line speaks volumes.

Voting on the basis of the character of a cause's supporters as opposed to the actual cause itself?

What these people represent is by and large totally at odds with my own views and hence that's why I dislike them in the first place.

Saw this on facebook:


A good friend of mine came up with a great idea. If you don't have the time/inclination to find out all the facts about the EU referendum (I don't blame you) and are possibly unsure which way to vote, perhaps knowing how other notable people are thinking could help out.

Here are a few that strongly believe the UK should remain a member of the EU:

• Governor of the Bank of England
• International Monetary Fund
• Institute for Fiscal Studies
• Confederation of British Industry
• Leaders/heads of state of every single other member of the EU
• President of the United States of America
• Eight former US Treasury Secretaries
• President of China
• Prime Minister of India
• Prime Minister of Canada
• Prime Minister of Australia
• Prime Minister of Japan
• Prime Minister of New Zealand
• The chief executives of most of the top 100 companies in the UK including Marks and Spencer, BT, Asda, Vodafone, Virgin, IBM, BMW etc.
• Kofi Annan, the former Secretary General of the United Nations
• All living former Prime Ministers of the UK (from both parties)
• Virtually all reputable and recognised economists
• The Prime Minister of the UK
• The leader of the Labour Party
• The Leader of the Liberal Democrats
• The Leader of the Green Party
• The Leader of the Scottish National Party
• The leader of Plaid Cymru
• Leader of Sinn Fein
• Martin Lewis, that money saving dude off the telly
• The Secretary General of the TUC
• Unison
• National Union of Students
• National Union of Farmers
• Stephen Hawking
• Chief Executive of the NHS
• 300 of the most prominent international historians
• Director of Europol
• David Anderson QC, Independent Reviewer of Terrorism Legislation
• Former Directors of GCHQ
• Secretary General of Nato
• Church of England
• Church in Scotland
• Church in Wales
• Friends of the Earth
• Greenpeace
• Director General of the World Trade Organisation
• WWF
• World Bank
• OECD

Here are pretty much the only notable people who think we should leave the EU:

• Boris Johnson, who probably doesn’t really care either way, but knows he’ll become Prime Minister if the country votes to leave
• A former Secretary of State for Work and Pensions who carried out a brutal regime of cuts to benefits and essential support for the poorest in society as well as the disabled and sick
• That idiot that was Education Secretary and every single teacher in the country hated with a furious passion for the damage he was doing to the education system
• Leader of UKIP
• BNP
• Britain First
• Donald Trump
• Keith Chegwin
• David Icke

So, as I said, if you can’t be bothered to look into the real facts and implications of all this in/out stuff, just pick the list that you most trust and vote that way. It really couldn’t be more simple.

And if you are unsure about leaving, don't.

Please repost this list, if you think it might help.

That's a bit unfair. They forgot Ian Botham.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 15, 2016, 11:37:20 AM
The Scots would probably ask for a referendum if things go pear shaped. They might wait a few weeks for the Conservative government to implode.

Are the British Government bound by the outcome if it's a leave vote?
A referendum in the 26 Cos is to amend a written Constitution which can only be done by popular vote.
What status has the Brit's referendum?

The Parliament could just ignore it in legal terms, although this is not possible in political terms.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Hardy on June 15, 2016, 11:39:15 AM
Are the British Government bound by the outcome if it's a leave vote?
A referendum in the 26 Cos is to amend a written Constitution which can only be done by popular vote.
What status has the Brit's referendum?

From House Of Lords Select Committee on the Constitution - Report on Referendums in the United Kingdom (https://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200910/ldselect/ldconst/99/99.pdf):

The outcome of any referendum does not bind
Parliament (unless that Parliament has previously agreed that it will) but would be expected to influence
significantly subsequent parliamentary consideration of an issue.


In other words:
Are they bound constitutionally? No.
Are they bound politically? Almost certainly.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on June 15, 2016, 12:05:37 PM
Cameron cancels Friday morning appearance with Taoiseach in Manchester to persuade Irish in Britain to vote Remain.  Apparently, he's a liability to the voting public....
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Hardy on June 15, 2016, 12:07:35 PM
Kindred spirits, then.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on June 15, 2016, 12:23:29 PM
Cameron cancels Friday morning appearance with Taoiseach in Manchester to persuade Irish in Britain to vote Remain.  Apparently, he's a liability to the voting public....

I believe Mr Cameron has been withdrawn from all remaining 'Remain' campaigning. 
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: muppet on June 15, 2016, 12:32:20 PM
Cameron cancels Friday morning appearance with Taoiseach in Manchester to persuade Irish in Britain to vote Remain.  Apparently, he's a liability to the voting public....

I believe Mr Cameron has been withdrawn from all remaining 'Remain' campaigning.

You'll know it is serious when he joins the 'Leave' campaign.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 15, 2016, 01:22:34 PM
Brexit is 2 fingers to the status quo. Most voters know nothing about economics.  Eg saving money on EU funds . It is around 1% of GDP. The real issue is a broken economic system that serves the rich .
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 15, 2016, 01:26:19 PM
Brexit has the potential to be the beginning of the end for Northern Ireland. If the Scots leave the Union all bets are off.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 15, 2016, 01:34:47 PM
Brexit is 2 fingers to the status quo. Most voters know nothing about economics.  Eg saving money on EU funds . It is around 1% of GDP.

The net EU contribution is about the same as the oft quoted payout to the 6 counties, except it is much better value.
Either way GDP will be less now.

it is very alarming though, in this age when information is readily available, that people are not interested in the facts or finding out about them.

Fair play to (Sir) Bob Geldof for his nautical information broadcast that the UK actually has the largest fish quota. No doubt if there is a Brexit the fish, who have been hiding in recent years, will flock back to British waters. 

Brexit has the potential to be the beginning of the end for Northern Ireland. If the Scots leave the Union all bets are off.

Nobody would like to see Northern Ireland abolished than me, but the preparatory work has not been done and thr politicians capable of it do not exist. The £8 billion being a case in point. There is a real problem about NI having this debate while the Scots are, as NI would deserve (and need) a generous dowry while the London government would not wish to give Scotland one.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 15, 2016, 08:52:37 PM
Brexit is 2 fingers to the status quo. Most voters know nothing about economics.  Eg saving money on EU funds . It is around 1% of GDP.

The net EU contribution is about the same as the oft quoted payout to the 6 counties, except it is much better value.
Either way GDP will be less now.

it is very alarming though, in this age when information is readily available, that people are not interested in the facts or finding out about them.

Fair play to (Sir) Bob Geldof for his nautical information broadcast that the UK actually has the largest fish quota. No doubt if there is a Brexit the fish, who have been hiding in recent years, will flock back to British waters. 

Brexit has the potential to be the beginning of the end for Northern Ireland. If the Scots leave the Union all bets are off.

Nobody would like to see Northern Ireland abolished than me, but the preparatory work has not been done and thr politicians capable of it do not exist. The £8 billion being a case in point. There is a real problem about NI having this debate while the Scots are, as NI would deserve (and need) a generous dowry while the London government would not wish to give Scotland one.
history is a record of consequences which nobody was expecting
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: yellowcard on June 15, 2016, 09:24:14 PM
Brexit is 2 fingers to the status quo. Most voters know nothing about economics.  Eg saving money on EU funds . It is around 1% of GDP.

The net EU contribution is about the same as the oft quoted payout to the 6 counties, except it is much better value.
Either way GDP will be less now.

it is very alarming though, in this age when information is readily available, that people are not interested in the facts or finding out about them.

Fair play to (Sir) Bob Geldof for his nautical information broadcast that the UK actually has the largest fish quota. No doubt if there is a Brexit the fish, who have been hiding in recent years, will flock back to British waters. 

Brexit has the potential to be the beginning of the end for Northern Ireland. If the Scots leave the Union all bets are off.

Nobody would like to see Northern Ireland abolished than me, but the preparatory work has not been done and thr politicians capable of it do not exist. The £8 billion being a case in point. There is a real problem about NI having this debate while the Scots are, as NI would deserve (and need) a generous dowry while the London government would not wish to give Scotland one.

I'd tend to agree with this but it begs the question, what the hell are Sinn Fein (the only all Ireland party) actually doing? No vision put forward for what re-unification would actually look like. They seriously need to get their house in order economically.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 15, 2016, 09:32:13 PM
I'd tend to agree with this but it begs the question, what the hell are Sinn Fein (the only all Ireland party) actually doing? No vision put forward for what re-unification would actually look like. They seriously need to get their house in order economically.


In the 26 counties, SF have gone for the pay for nothing vote, for whom fiscal credibility is not only not a necessity, but a turnoff. In the 6 counties a lot of them have a colonial mentality, where economics is asking London for money. They may be beginning to realise this, appointing Máirtín Ó Muilleoir to Finance in Stormont is a sign of some interest in the subject. They probably have a long game of some sort in mind, although like Armagh things might be be quite on schedule. Unfortunately, this Brexit thing is looking like they may have to tog out at the end of  next week and they haven't even figured out how to get to the ground.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: LeoMc on June 15, 2016, 09:54:21 PM
Markets seem to be going south with a lot of money leaving the UK as he odds on Brecit shorten. Ironically this will be hutting the pensions of those older Pro-brexit voters.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Itchy on June 15, 2016, 11:08:42 PM
Brexit will be great for Ireland. There will be some short term bumps but then the rest of the world will figure that we are the only English language country left in the EU which will net us unprecedented foreign investment. It will also be the beginning of the end of the U.K. Scotland will vote for independence and unionist will have a financial reason to consider a united Ireland within the EU.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: OgraAnDun on June 15, 2016, 11:31:52 PM
Brexit is 2 fingers to the status quo. Most voters know nothing about economics.  Eg saving money on EU funds . It is around 1% of GDP.

The net EU contribution is about the same as the oft quoted payout to the 6 counties, except it is much better value.
Either way GDP will be less now.

it is very alarming though, in this age when information is readily available, that people are not interested in the facts or finding out about them.

Fair play to (Sir) Bob Geldof for his nautical information broadcast that the UK actually has the largest fish quota. No doubt if there is a Brexit the fish, who have been hiding in recent years, will flock back to British waters. 

Brexit has the potential to be the beginning of the end for Northern Ireland. If the Scots leave the Union all bets are off.

Nobody would like to see Northern Ireland abolished than me, but the preparatory work has not been done and thr politicians capable of it do not exist. The £8 billion being a case in point. There is a real problem about NI having this debate while the Scots are, as NI would deserve (and need) a generous dowry while the London government would not wish to give Scotland one.

I'd tend to agree with this but it begs the question, what the hell are Sinn Fein (the only all Ireland party) actually doing? No vision put forward for what re-unification would actually look like. They seriously need to get their house in order economically.


Last week they had a mini press conference I believe on their version of a united Ireland. The north will get to keep Stormont for a number of  years to let unionists integrate into an all Ireland state. Matt Carthy is chief strategist of this all Ireland vision group I believe.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 16, 2016, 12:29:32 PM
FT editorial but very few marginalised voters are likely to read it

. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/3748166e-3151-11e6-ad39-3fee5ffe5b5b.html

June 15, 2016 5:17 pm


Britain should vote to stay in the EU



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Historic plebiscite with far-reaching consequences for the continent



I

n seven days, the British will decide. The referendum on EU membership marks an historic moment. At stake is Britain’s often troubled relationship with Europe, but also the coherence of the west. A vote to withdraw would be irrevocable, a grievous blow to the post-1945 liberal world order. David Cameron’s referendum gamble has proved to be a futile attempt to heal divisions in the ruling Conservative party. The campaign has split the country. Emotions have trumped facts. Born-again populists rail against the establishment. “People in this country have had enough of experts,” declares Michael Gove, a leading Brexiter, justice secretary (and former education secretary).

This newspaper has supported British membership of the EU from the outset in 1973. The Financial Times does not favour membership of the single currency. It makes no economic sense. But opting out of the euro is quite different from opting out of the EU, which would seriously damage the UK economy. Constructive engagement is vital when Europe confronts threats from Islamist extremism, migration, Russian aggrandisement and climate change. These can only be tackled collectively.


The referendum campaign is a contest between competing values: between liberal internationalism and a pinched nationalism, between an open-trading system and marginalisation. This is why Britain’s allies, from Australia to Japan and the US, have unanimously supported Remain — and why Marine Le Pen and Donald Trump favour Brexit.

The debate has been depressingly transactional. The economic costs of withdrawal are substantial; but the Remain camp has indulged in pocketbook scaremongering. The Leave camp has been superficially patriotic, at heart mendacious. Britain does not contribute a net £350m a week to the EU budget. Savings will not go automatically to the National Health Service. Turkey has about as much chance of joining the EU by 2020 as Istanbul being renamed Constantinople in a revived Byzantine empire.


Turkey has as much chance of joining the EU as Istanbul being renamed Constantinople

To be sure, Leave’s focus on immigration resonates with voters. This may account for a tightening of the polls, to the point where Brexit is a real risk. The influx of EU migrants, far greater than successive governments predicted, has stirred fears about jobs, public services and British identity. “Take back control” in the name of democracy is a seductive slogan in the age of globalisation. Mr Cameron has yet to provide an adequate riposte.


More video

He joins a long line of British prime ministers, including Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair, who have failed to level with the British public. Membership of the EU and, crucially, the single European market, entails some transfer of sovereignty in return for an actual gain in power as part of a greater whole. The rewards are indisputable. Since Britain joined the EU in 1973, real gross domestic product per head has grown faster than in France, Germany and Italy. Thatcher’s labour reforms and the Bank of England’s independence were vital too. But membership of the single market has been a magnet for foreign direct investment, funding a bulging current account deficit and guaranteeing British jobs.


Leave has failed to spell out the serious risks of life outside the EU. Boris Johnson, the former mayor of London with one eye on Mr Cameron’s job, invokes a newfound freedom without the pettifogging rules of the single market. With one bound, Britain would become the Venice of the 21st century. In the real world, Britain would have to redefine fundamentally its relationship with the EU. An arrangement akin to Norway’s would require paying into the EU budget and accepting free movement of labour. Switzerland’s deal is even more cumbersome. Mr Gove invokes a model closer to Albania, Bosnia, Serbia and Ukraine, to deserved derision. The fallback — relying on World Trade Organisation rules — would involve tariffs on UK goods, a poor deal on services (vital for the City of London) and years of fraught negotiations. Britain would end up a rule-taker, not a rule-maker.

Britain’s seat at the table has allowed it to win big arguments in Brussels: on free trade, liberalisation of air travel and telecoms, and EU enlargement to central and eastern Europe. The UK has shaped membership to its needs, securing opt-outs from the euro and the Schengen agreement abolishing border controls. It retains control of income tax and corporate taxation. Education, skills and a skewed housing market hold the UK economy back, not a Brussels bureaucracy the size of Birmingham city council.


Brexit would be a gratuitous act of self-harm. Business leaders have a duty to speak up

In a multi-speed, multi-tiered EU, the European superstate is a chimera. Brexiters such as Nigel Farage, the leader of the UK Independence party, see British withdrawal as a handy act of sabotage, hastening the disintegration of the EU. To what end? In or out, Britain would pay a heavy cost. Brexit would reintroduce a border between north and south in Ireland. It would put the territorial integrity of the UK at risk, especially if an independent-minded Scotland overwhelmingly votes to stay. It would trigger a political crisis in the UK — Mr Cameron would surely go — and reawaken the ghosts of nationalism in Europe.


More video

The positive case for Britain in the EU is easily made. To abandon the cause of constructive reform of an admittedly imperfect EU would be more than defeatist. It would be a gratuitous act of self-harm. Business leaders have a duty to spell out the cost of leaving before it is too late.

In 1975, when a Labour government called for a referendum on British membership of the European Economic Community, the FT rejected the notion of Britain as “a tight little island, seeking refuge in a siege economy, opting out of the main stream of world politics”. The sentiment remains resonant today. This is no time to revert to Little England. We are Great Britain. We have a contribution to make to a more prosperous, safer world. The vote must be “Remain”.

Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 16, 2016, 03:19:05 PM
Well at least Nolan knows what is important, a vote for breakfast, an Ulster Fry no doubt.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/vote-for-breakfast-stephen-nolan-in-a-scramble-over-brexit-slip-34806760.html
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: dec on June 16, 2016, 04:06:20 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-36550304

An MP is in a critical condition after she was shot and stabbed during an attack in her constituency.

Eyewitnesses said Jo Cox, 41, Labour MP for Batley and Spen, was left bleeding on the floor by her attacker. A man also suffered slight injuries.

A 52-year-old man was arrested near Market Street, Birstall, West Yorkshire Police said. The MP holds a weekly advice surgery nearby.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 16, 2016, 05:30:13 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-36550304

An MP is in a critical condition after she was shot and stabbed during an attack in her constituency.

Eyewitnesses said Jo Cox, 41, Labour MP for Batley and Spen, was left bleeding on the floor by her attacker. A man also suffered slight injuries.

A 52-year-old man was arrested near Market Street, Birstall, West Yorkshire Police said. The MP holds a weekly advice surgery nearby.

This lady has died, sadly.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Rossfan on June 16, 2016, 05:46:18 PM
RIP.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Farrandeelin on June 16, 2016, 11:00:58 PM
Shocking news.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 17, 2016, 06:17:04 AM
This could be lethal for the leave side
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 20, 2016, 03:31:27 AM
I didnt know Nigel Dodds was one of the leading lights on the leave side
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 20, 2016, 11:13:51 AM
Usual sectarian pattern in the sick counties
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/eu-referendum/eu-referendum-growing-support-in-northern-ireland-for-brexit-but-balance-of-power-lies-with-the-undecided-34815075.html

What I don't get is why? Even if your ancestors arrived in the 17th century and you are in everything going from the Orange order to the NI Supporters club, why would you destabilise the place? Geography means that whatever its political links that NI will always have more trade with the 26 counties and more agriculture than GB. Whether you would like the border sealed off or not, you should be able to recognise that the people living near that border will not be happy with this and kicking things off again benefits nobody. Imagine if it was a narrow Leave, and Scotland fecked off as a consequence, and the Leave margin was accounted for by people following the malign guidance of the DUP who had effectively broken up the UK!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 20, 2016, 12:02:32 PM
The DUP are incoherent.  I blame the prod brain drain. English nationalism is driving Brexit . English nationalism is the enemy of unionism.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 20, 2016, 12:09:17 PM
44 v 44 per the FT 12 unknown
I think in the Scottish referendum there was a surge towards  remain in the last 24 hours. People don't like venturing into the unknown when push comes to shove.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Canalman on June 20, 2016, 12:36:36 PM
A comfortable yes vote imo  54% to 46%.

Have to say, I have been impressed with Cameron in the campaign. Saw an interview at the weekend with Corbyn ( first time hearing him|)  and was also impressed. Underestimate him at your peril. 

Bigger pond I know, but there seems to be a better calibre of politician over there.

Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 20, 2016, 12:42:45 PM
A comfortable yes vote imo  54% to 46%.

Have to say, I have been impressed with Cameron in the campaign. Saw an interview at the weekend with Corbyn ( first time hearing him|)  and was also impressed. Underestimate him at your peril. 

Bigger pond I know, but there seems to be a better calibre of politician over there.

Anything less than 53% to 47% will imply an actual Leave majority in voters resident in England and would not be very stable. Voters in Scotland, NI and ex-pats will be clearly Remain, and that's about 8 million voters. Wales might be soft Remain as well so even 46.5% Leave might still imply a marginal Leave majority in England.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: AQMP on June 20, 2016, 12:48:15 PM
A comfortable yes vote imo  54% to 46%.

Have to say, I have been impressed with Cameron in the campaign. Saw an interview at the weekend with Corbyn ( first time hearing him|)  and was also impressed. Underestimate him at your peril. 

Bigger pond I know, but there seems to be a better calibre of politician over there.

Anything less than 53% to 47% will imply an actual Leave majority in voters resident in England and would not be very stable. Voters in Scotland, NI and ex-pats will be clearly Remain, and that's about 8 million voters. Wales might be soft Remain as well so even 46.5% Leave might still imply a marginal Leave majority in England.

I'd be happy enough if England left and the rest of us stayed!  My gut tells me that Remain will get home more comfortably than some of the media and polls suggest.  I'd say there'll be a swing to the status quo in the last 24-48 hours.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Over the Bar on June 20, 2016, 12:55:50 PM
Normally I can't stand the guy but Cameron on Question Time last night gave the performance of his career last night.  Impressive.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: stew on June 20, 2016, 01:20:10 PM
A comfortable yes vote imo  54% to 46%.

Have to say, I have been impressed with Cameron in the campaign. Saw an interview at the weekend with Corbyn ( first time hearing him|)  and was also impressed. Underestimate him at your peril. 

Bigger pond I know, but there seems to be a better calibre of politician over there.

Anything less than 53% to 47% will imply an actual Leave majority in voters resident in England and would not be very stable. Voters in Scotland, NI and ex-pats will be clearly Remain, and that's about 8 million voters. Wales might be soft Remain as well so even 46.5% Leave might still imply a marginal Leave majority in England.

I'd be happy enough if England left and the rest of us stayed!  My gut tells me that Remain will get home more comfortably than some of the media and polls suggest.  I'd say there'll be a swing to the status quo in the last 24-48 hours.
[/quote


They will win going away.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 20, 2016, 05:45:31 PM
Normally I can't stand the guy but Cameron on Question Time last night gave the performance of his career last night.  Impressive.

Yep very impressed with how he handles questions, very clued up on everything (as you'd hope) financially staying in or leaving what's best if you work private sector??
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 20, 2016, 06:07:21 PM
Normally I can't stand the guy but Cameron on Question Time last night gave the performance of his career last night.  Impressive.

Yep very impressed with how he handles questions, very clued up on everything (as you'd hope) financially staying in or leaving what's best if you work private sector??

If you want NI to return to 1972, then vote out.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 20, 2016, 06:53:09 PM
A comfortable yes vote imo  54% to 46%.

Have to say, I have been impressed with Cameron in the campaign. Saw an interview at the weekend with Corbyn ( first time hearing him|)  and was also impressed. Underestimate him at your peril. 

Bigger pond I know, but there seems to be a better calibre of politician over there.

Anything less than 53% to 47% will imply an actual Leave majority in voters resident in England and would not be very stable. Voters in Scotland, NI and ex-pats will be clearly Remain, and that's about 8 million voters. Wales might be soft Remain as well so even 46.5% Leave might still imply a marginal Leave majority in England.
Until thatcherism.is euthanised UK politics will be extremely volatile.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 20, 2016, 11:01:14 PM
Normally I can't stand the guy but Cameron on Question Time last night gave the performance of his career last night.  Impressive.

Yep very impressed with how he handles questions, very clued up on everything (as you'd hope) financially staying in or leaving what's best if you work private sector??

If you want NI to return to 1972, then vote out.

Was a great year! God I'm old
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 20, 2016, 11:59:42 PM
Normally I can't stand the guy but Cameron on Question Time last night gave the performance of his career last night.  Impressive.

Yep very impressed with how he handles questions, very clued up on everything (as you'd hope) financially staying in or leaving what's best if you work private sector??

If you want NI to return to 1972, then vote out.

Was a great year! God I'm old

You don't get the music back. Only these c***s
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Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: No wides on June 21, 2016, 08:30:46 AM
Normally I can't stand the guy but Cameron on Question Time last night gave the performance of his career last night.  Impressive.

Yep very impressed with how he handles questions, very clued up on everything (as you'd hope) financially staying in or leaving what's best if you work private sector??

If you want NI to return to 1972, then vote out.

Was a great year! God I'm old

You don't get the music back. Only these c***s
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Clegg out all out, I think leave will win.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: BennyCake on June 21, 2016, 08:31:59 AM
Not a hope Leave will win, unfortunately.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 21, 2016, 08:55:05 AM
Not a hope Leave will win, unfortunately.

The bookies are aint wrong too many times and they have remain as clear favs at 4/11
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Walter Cronc on June 21, 2016, 08:55:44 AM
DUP with a 2 page spread on the London metro paper this morning - dinosaurs!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 21, 2016, 09:16:44 AM
Not a hope Leave will win, unfortunately.

I'm   of sure why  you want the  DUP Boris Johnson  and Farage to win,  but I hope you are right that they  won't.. I'm  sure sense will prevail.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: No wides on June 21, 2016, 09:24:34 AM
Not a hope Leave will win, unfortunately.

You underestimate the ahem "working" class Brit.  Pure racism will get the leave over the line, the polls are a load of shite we see that time and time again.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: blewuporstuffed on June 21, 2016, 09:26:18 AM
Not a hope Leave will win, unfortunately.
Why 'Unfortunatley' ? ???
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: yellowcard on June 21, 2016, 11:09:54 AM
I think the death of the MP Jo Cox will have had a significant enough impact to affect the vote. Remain will probably win fairly comfortably now by about 60-40.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 21, 2016, 11:35:31 AM
Not a hope Leave will win, unfortunately.

You underestimate the ahem "working" class Brit.  Pure racism will get the leave over the line, the polls are a load of shite we see that time and time again.
Lots of them won't vote. Leave has no decent arguments.
Very like Trump.
Cameron has had a nightmare . This vote was supposed to unite the Tories . Love will tear us apart again.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 21, 2016, 12:29:21 PM
Not a hope Leave will win, unfortunately.

I'm   of sure why  you want the  DUP Boris Johnson  and Farage to win,  but I hope you are right that they  won't.. I'm  sure sense will prevail.
Brexit Is too un certain. 350m a week is 1% of gdp. Brexit could cost 10% of gdp.
Villiers Is an airhead. I suppose they don't want an intellectuel dealing with the DUP.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 21, 2016, 12:41:05 PM
I think the death of the MP Jo Cox will have had a significant enough impact to affect the vote. Remain will probably win fairly comfortably now by about 60-40.

Judging by the Forex markets, a Remain win seems to be factored in.
I should have bought some Sterling last week!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Minder on June 21, 2016, 12:46:11 PM
Beckham securing his knighthood
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 21, 2016, 12:47:02 PM
I think the death of the MP Jo Cox will have had a significant enough impact to affect the vote. Remain will probably win fairly comfortably now by about 60-40.

Judging by the Forex markets, a Remain win seems to be factored in.
I should have bought some Sterling last week!

He'll be going cheap after the euros.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: LeoMc on June 21, 2016, 01:00:32 PM
Not a hope Leave will win, unfortunately.

I'm   of sure why  you want the  DUP Boris Johnson  and Farage to win,  but I hope you are right that they  won't.. I'm  sure sense will prevail.
Brexit Is too un certain. 350m a week is 1% of gdp. Brexit could cost 10% of gdp.
Villiers Is an airhead. I suppose they don't want an intellectuel dealing with the DUP.
Half of which comes back anyway. Remain should be doing more to get the message across that it is just like paying taxes. The UK is one of the wealthier nations so it is subsidising poorer regions with the intention of raising their standard of living so they can afford to buy UK goods. On a smaller scale it is like the City of London voting to secede because the taxes they contribute to the UK government are subsidising the regions.

No one likes paying tax it but if we want Hospitals and schools and roads and services we have to pay for them.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 21, 2016, 01:05:09 PM
The working class has been shafted after 35 years of thatcherism. It needs serious taxation of the rich to fund public investment. Not brexit
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Tony Baloney on June 21, 2016, 01:48:58 PM
Beckham securing his knighthood
That's the endorsement the Remain campaign have been waiting for!  :-\
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: yellowcard on June 21, 2016, 02:28:39 PM
Beckham securing his knighthood

Thats just emabarrassing for whoever wheeled out the well known economist and intellectual that is Beckham..
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: johnneycool on June 21, 2016, 02:37:25 PM
Beckham securing his knighthood

Thats just emabarrassing for whoever wheeled out the well known economist and intellectual that is Beckham..

It might just swing the red top readers who don't give a toss about what economists and intellectuals think..

Sad and all that it is, the cult of celebrity seems to carry votes in politics!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 21, 2016, 02:46:47 PM
How do north of Ireland posters feel about Dodds and Villiers supporting leave?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: AQMP on June 21, 2016, 03:03:18 PM
How do north of Ireland posters feel about Dodds and Villiers supporting leave?

Dodds supports a Brexit for the same reason as most DUPers.  He thinks it will lead to another (or several) degrees of separation between North and South.  I haven't heard one DUPer give any sort of argument as to why NI will be better off outside the EU. 

Villiers is a lightweight fuckwit who will be on her way if Remain prevails.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: rosnarun on June 21, 2016, 03:22:58 PM
Currently we have signed to a treaty who aim is 'EVER increasing  union' which is not just flowery language nut  states that its aim it to end up as a nation state. so if that is what's desired then vote yes. the hope is with an English withdrawal we have a redrawing  of our relationship with all other nation not just white european ones
Nationalism does no go away just because the nation gets bigger
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Oghams Law on June 21, 2016, 04:30:38 PM
http://uk.businessinsider.com/wef-countries-with-highest-level-of-government-debt-vs-gdp-2015-10

Of the Top 17 countires with the highest level of gov debt how many do you think are in the EU?

What would be wrong with a free trade agreement in Europe only without striving for a United States of Europe?
Vote Leave
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 21, 2016, 04:40:15 PM
Currently we have signed to a treaty who aim is 'EVER increasing  union' which is not just flowery language nut  states that its aim it to end up as a nation state. so if that is what's desired then vote yes. the hope is with an English withdrawal we have a redrawing  of our relationship with all other nation not just white european ones
Nationalism does no go away just because the nation gets bigger
ever increasing union is dead in the water. The Germans will not countenance fiscal union. They are afraid of inflation.  They end up with deflation.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: bennydorano on June 21, 2016, 07:34:18 PM
http://uk.businessinsider.com/wef-countries-with-highest-level-of-government-debt-vs-gdp-2015-10

Of the Top 17 countires with the highest level of gov debt how many do you think are in the EU?

What would be wrong with a free trade agreement in Europe only without striving for a United States of Europe?
Vote Leave
No quite brave enough to post under your primary account though? Not that convinced then.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 21, 2016, 08:00:03 PM
How do north of Ireland posters feel about Dodds and Villiers supporting leave?

Dodds supports a Brexit for the same reason as most DUPers.  He thinks it will lead to another (or several) degrees of separation between North and South.  I haven't heard one DUPer give any sort of argument as to why NI will be better off outside the EU. 

Villiers is a lightweight fuckwit who will be on her way if Remain prevails.
If DUP heads really think like that,  NI is fucked. Leave could cut UK GDP by 10%
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 21, 2016, 08:05:17 PM
That's  the general idea; cut the NI economy,  especially in Taig border areas and replace European payments with London ones.  Then the subvention becomes so large that a UI is totally inconceivable.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 21, 2016, 08:10:57 PM
That's  the general idea; cut the NI economy,  especially in Taig border areas and replace European payments with London ones.  Then the subvention becomes so large that a UI is totally inconceivable.
English nationalism is going to destroy unionism.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 21, 2016, 08:42:50 PM
The big weakness of OWC is its continued dependence on English money to keep the lights on. People in London are entitled to ask why the money isn't spent in London.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: LeoMc on June 21, 2016, 09:52:38 PM
http://uk.businessinsider.com/wef-countries-with-highest-level-of-government-debt-vs-gdp-2015-10

Of the Top 17 countires with the highest level of gov debt how many do you think are in the EU?

What would be wrong with a free trade agreement in Europe only without striving for a United States of Europe?
Vote Leave
So they will be able to negotiate a better deal from outside without complying with EU directives?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 21, 2016, 10:25:18 PM
http://uk.businessinsider.com/wef-countries-with-highest-level-of-government-debt-vs-gdp-2015-10

Of the Top 17 countires with the highest level of gov debt how many do you think are in the EU?

What would be wrong with a free trade agreement in Europe only without striving for a United States of Europe?
Vote Leave
So they will be able to negotiate a better deal from outside without complying with EU directives?
Europe doesn't work like that . Switzerland had a referendum on inward migration and tried to play hardball with Brussels. It was told to PFO. It was kicked out of the Erasmus programme. 2 years later it is still trying to triangulate. Only 30% of voters woukd now support the referendum.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: blewuporstuffed on June 22, 2016, 08:34:41 AM
How do north of Ireland posters feel about Dodds and Villiers supporting leave?

Dodds supports a Brexit for the same reason as most DUPers.  He thinks it will lead to another (or several) degrees of separation between North and South.  I haven't heard one DUPer give any sort of argument as to why NI will be better off outside the EU. 

Villiers is a lightweight fuckwit who will be on her way if Remain prevails.
If DUP heads really think like that,  NI is fucked. Leave could cut UK GDP by 10%
Of course they think like that, that's a huge part of our problem here.Its like banging your head against a wall.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: AQMP on June 22, 2016, 10:07:00 AM
Neil Lennon comes out for Remain.  That's swung it for me!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: imtommygunn on June 22, 2016, 10:14:01 AM
How do north of Ireland posters feel about Dodds and Villiers supporting leave?

Dodds supports a Brexit for the same reason as most DUPers.  He thinks it will lead to another (or several) degrees of separation between North and South.  I haven't heard one DUPer give any sort of argument as to why NI will be better off outside the EU. 

Villiers is a lightweight fuckwit who will be on her way if Remain prevails.
If DUP heads really think like that,  NI is fucked. Leave could cut UK GDP by 10%
Of course they think like that, that's a huge part of our problem here.Its like banging your head against a wall.

If the uk votes leave ni will not get the funding that it currently gets, i can't see it happening anyway, and will hit bad times.

I would see it pushing more nationalists wanting a ui so in my view it would weaken the union. Unionists are making a monumental c**k up pushing the leave agenda.

Despite all trade arguments etc i think they're a crock of shit and they just want border controls.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: LeoMc on June 22, 2016, 11:03:22 AM
http://uk.businessinsider.com/wef-countries-with-highest-level-of-government-debt-vs-gdp-2015-10

Of the Top 17 countires with the highest level of gov debt how many do you think are in the EU?

What would be wrong with a free trade agreement in Europe only without striving for a United States of Europe?
Vote Leave
So they will be able to negotiate a better deal from outside without complying with EU directives?
Europe doesn't work like that . Switzerland had a referendum on inward migration and tried to play hardball with Brussels. It was told to PFO. It was kicked out of the Erasmus programme. 2 years later it is still trying to triangulate. Only 30% of voters woukd now support the referendum.
That was my point. I should have framed it as a rhetorical question but I wanted to draw out the OP on his Gove like logic.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on June 22, 2016, 11:39:17 AM
Dodds supports a Brexit for the same reason as most DUPers.  He thinks it will lead to another (or several) degrees of separation between North and South.  I haven't heard one DUPer give any sort of argument as to why NI will be better off outside the EU. 

Villiers is a lightweight fuckwit who will be on her way if Remain prevails.

It's called cutting of your nose despite your face. I think you are bang on the money here. The DUP think that in leaving it'll put a bigger wedge between the North and the South. But they don't have the leadership and vision (as we have seen on many issues) to see what a short term plan that is. I'm not sure if this lack of foresight is simply just down to the fact they don't want to go down in history as "the generation that failed Unionism" even though that's exactly what they are setting up for future Unionist generations. Always smacks of a not on my watch attitude.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 22, 2016, 11:47:37 AM
How do north of Ireland posters feel about Dodds and Villiers supporting leave?

Dodds supports a Brexit for the same reason as most DUPers.  He thinks it will lead to another (or several) degrees of separation between North and South.  I haven't heard one DUPer give any sort of argument as to why NI will be better off outside the EU. 

Villiers is a lightweight fuckwit who will be on her way if Remain prevails.
If DUP heads really think like that,  NI is fucked. Leave could cut UK GDP by 10%
Of course they think like that, that's a huge part of our problem here.Its like banging your head against a wall.

If the uk votes leave ni will not get the funding that it currently gets, i can't see it happening anyway, and will hit bad times.

I would see it pushing more nationalists wanting a ui so in my view it would weaken the union. Unionists are making a monumental c**k up pushing the leave agenda.

Despite all trade arguments etc i think they're a crock of shit and they just want border controls.
Thinking unionists understand the value of trade with and investment from the South
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: imtommygunn on June 22, 2016, 12:19:47 PM
How many of those are there though.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: NAG1 on June 22, 2016, 12:35:08 PM
How do north of Ireland posters feel about Dodds and Villiers supporting leave?

Dodds supports a Brexit for the same reason as most DUPers.  He thinks it will lead to another (or several) degrees of separation between North and South.  I haven't heard one DUPer give any sort of argument as to why NI will be better off outside the EU. 

Villiers is a lightweight fuckwit who will be on her way if Remain prevails.
If DUP heads really think like that,  NI is fucked. Leave could cut UK GDP by 10%
Of course they think like that, that's a huge part of our problem here.Its like banging your head against a wall.

If the uk votes leave ni will not get the funding that it currently gets, i can't see it happening anyway, and will hit bad times.

I would see it pushing more nationalists wanting a ui so in my view it would weaken the union. Unionists are making a monumental c**k up pushing the leave agenda.

Despite all trade arguments etc i think they're a crock of shit and they just want border controls.
Thinking unionists understand the value of trade with and investment from the South

Tbh they are scarce on the ground and when the likes of Willy Wright (Wrightbus) comes out in favour of leave it makes the rest of them even more confused. The fact that Boris was ordering bus's like mad from them hasnt clouded his judgement in any way  ;)
How many does London need and who will they want to sell their products too when there are no more orders from London, oh wait that's right....... oops

The DUP havent got a long term strategy on anything never mind this, they see the right wing politicians saying NO and it pulls at their heart strings because that is what they have been brought up on.

I genuinely nearly crashed the car when I heard an interview yesterday on the radio, some bbc journo was interviewing young Brits abroad working for the summer in some of the holiday resorts in Europe. Asking for their views, he asked a young lad from northern England who was working in a bar on the strip, he said 'there are too many migrant workers coming in and taking jobs off locals so he was voting leave' Needless to say the irony was lost on him completely but it shows the way the leave campaign have run their argument.


Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: T Fearon on June 22, 2016, 12:42:58 PM
Northern nationalists will in large part swing this vote for remain.Will they get any political reward from the Dublin Govt for doing so?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: imtommygunn on June 22, 2016, 01:02:54 PM
Like what and how will they know?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: muppet on June 22, 2016, 01:04:48 PM
Northern nationalists will in large part swing this vote for remain.Will they get any political reward from the Dublin Govt for doing so?

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Hardy on June 22, 2016, 01:15:18 PM
Ready! Fire! Aim!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: guy crouchback on June 22, 2016, 01:44:09 PM
Northern nationalists will in large part swing this vote for remain.Will they get any political reward from the Dublin Govt for doing so?

i think this might be the single most stupid comment made by anyone in relation to the entire brexit debate. 
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 22, 2016, 01:57:33 PM
Northern nationalists will in large part swing this vote for remain.Will they get any political reward from the Dublin Govt for doing so?

i think this might be the single most stupid comment made by anyone in relation to the entire brexit debate.
There is very strong competition from.the DUP
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Ulick on June 22, 2016, 02:11:02 PM
Kenny, Noonan and Martin crying today about the economic disaster that awaits should the Brits leave. No doubt they've worn down some shoe leather this past few weeks canvassing around Newry and west Belfast. 
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: LeoMc on June 22, 2016, 02:46:35 PM
Dodds supports a Brexit for the same reason as most DUPers.  He thinks it will lead to another (or several) degrees of separation between North and South.  I haven't heard one DUPer give any sort of argument as to why NI will be better off outside the EU. 

Villiers is a lightweight fuckwit who will be on her way if Remain prevails.

It's called cutting of your nose despite your face. I think you are bang on the money here. The DUP think that in leaving it'll put a bigger wedge between the North and the South. But they don't have the leadership and vision (as we have seen on many issues) to see what a short term plan that is. I'm not sure if this lack of foresight is simply just down to the fact they don't want to go down in history as "the generation that failed Unionism" even though that's exactly what they are setting up for future Unionist generations. Always smacks of a not on my watch attitude.
No its not.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 22, 2016, 06:23:02 PM
What is it then,  if it is not?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: imtommygunn on June 22, 2016, 06:26:09 PM
Cutting your nose to spite yor face... ;D
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Nigel White on June 22, 2016, 06:47:59 PM
Cutting your nose to spite yor face... >:(
Woman round our way spoke one time about a fellow who 'sneaked in like a thief with a knife'
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: heganboy on June 22, 2016, 07:05:14 PM
paddy Power has the remain option as 2/7 and over 750 grand on it, hard to see them getting a market that wrong...
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Oghams Law on June 22, 2016, 07:15:23 PM
http://uk.businessinsider.com/wef-countries-with-highest-level-of-government-debt-vs-gdp-2015-10

Of the Top 17 countires with the highest level of gov debt how many do you think are in the EU?

What would be wrong with a free trade agreement in Europe only without striving for a United States of Europe?
Vote Leave
No quite brave enough to post under your primary account though? Not that convinced then.

New to the gaaboard friend this is my only and therefore primary account
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: bennydorano on June 22, 2016, 07:16:29 PM
At this stage I think the media are doing a Sky Sports News hyperbolic version of how exciting / close the vote's going to be (at least I hope that's the case).
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Oghams Law on June 22, 2016, 07:19:18 PM
http://uk.businessinsider.com/wef-countries-with-highest-level-of-government-debt-vs-gdp-2015-10

Of the Top 17 countires with the highest level of gov debt how many do you think are in the EU?

What would be wrong with a free trade agreement in Europe only without striving for a United States of Europe?
Vote Leave
So they will be able to negotiate a better deal from outside without complying with EU directives?

No but a leave vote would spell the beginning of the end for the eu in its current form. Polls suggest france would follow and it would be unworkable without uk & france. It could be replaced with a free trade agreement.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Rossfan on June 22, 2016, 08:20:08 PM
You can't have free trade without insisting on all participants having the same standards etc.
Which means rules/regulations to be observed in the whole area = present EU.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 22, 2016, 08:21:16 PM
The EU would work if it neutered the neoliberals
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 22, 2016, 09:21:49 PM
paddy Power has the remain option as 2/7 and over 750 grand on it, hard to see them getting a market that wrong...

All PP has to do is change the stakes out of Sterling. If it goes pear shaped  they'll  be able to pay out just by changing it back.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Farrandeelin on June 22, 2016, 10:47:38 PM
So will everything carry on as normal if (as I assume) they remain? Or will there be differences then too?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: LeoMc on June 22, 2016, 10:50:47 PM
So will everything carry on as normal if (as I assume) they remain? Or will there be differences then too?
There has to be changes. The EU has many faults but the only way to reform it us from the inside.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: imtommygunn on June 22, 2016, 10:54:07 PM
A good few of the leave reasons are to take back control and to me they are just excuses from a failing tory government. Nothing in the eu can change that.

There will be other things though.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: LeoMc on June 22, 2016, 10:56:18 PM
http://uk.businessinsider.com/wef-countries-with-highest-level-of-government-debt-vs-gdp-2015-10

Of the Top 17 countires with the highest level of gov debt how many do you think are in the EU?

What would be wrong with a free trade agreement in Europe only without striving for a United States of Europe?
Vote Leave
So they will be able to negotiate a better deal from outside without complying with EU directives?

No but a leave vote would spell the beginning of the end for the eu in its current form. Polls suggest france would follow and it would be unworkable without uk & france. It could be replaced with a free trade agreement.
The EU is far from perfect but in your scenario 27 separate trade deals and 27 different sets of standards to be met would be a bigger nightmare than what we have at present.
Every one of the 28 would be in a weaker position and have to take what ever terms the US offers on the TTPs.
No workers rights with even Governments having to vend over for US big business.
As a group of 28 they can and need to stand up to the US on that.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: bcarrier on June 22, 2016, 11:05:37 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EH1G4EwljM
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 22, 2016, 11:22:52 PM
From sluggerotoole, the Brexit playlist

https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFMvNeFXRbeuyE1auAvFEn0Ja39olsOIs
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Rossfan on June 23, 2016, 12:50:04 AM
Are ye 6 Co lads and lassies voting and. If so how?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 23, 2016, 04:23:26 AM
A good few of the leave reasons are to take back control and to me they are just excuses from a failing tory government. Nothing in the eu can change that.

There will be other things though.
Cameron took a stupid gamble. Europe is the issue that rents the Tory party asunder.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: AQMP on June 23, 2016, 06:41:24 AM
Are ye 6 Co lads and lassies voting and. If so how?

Yes - Remain
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Farrandeelin on June 23, 2016, 07:17:34 AM
I predict the Remain will win. At least by 10%.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: BenDover on June 23, 2016, 07:39:12 AM
Are ye 6 Co lads and lassies voting and. If so how?

Yes - Remain
Same as that
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: LeoMc on June 23, 2016, 07:47:27 AM
Are ye 6 Co lads and lassies voting and. If so how?
Remain
There has been no convincing argument to Leave, just a load of tin hat paranoia #usepens and racism.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: OakleafCounty on June 23, 2016, 08:05:52 AM
Are ye 6 Co lads and lassies voting and. If so how?

Remain for a number of reasons:

- EU money contributes to a lot more here than we realise. From the Peace Bridge in Derry to a lot of local play parks;
- The last thing we need in border areas is an actual border. The DUP can gloss over it but we know that their main aim is to create barriers with the Republic;
- I'm proud to identify myself as a European;
- I don't in any way shape or form trust any London government to provide what we would lose by exiting.

VOTE REMAIN!!!!!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: screenexile on June 23, 2016, 09:12:53 AM
Remain

Work for an Irish Company with the UK our main Customer so the uncertainty leaving would bring and the weakness of the Pound would be very difficult for us.

Ideologically I agree with my compatriot above as well.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: JoG2 on June 23, 2016, 09:24:24 AM
Remain..vóta a chaitheamh go luath agus vótáil go minic !!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Harold Disgracey on June 23, 2016, 09:27:32 AM
I voted remain. The prospect of giving the Tories unfettered control terrifies me.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Oghams Law on June 23, 2016, 09:46:40 AM
Leave

My reasons:

The EU is not preforming well economically.
The uk imports more from eu than exports so a trade agreement will be a no brainer for them. ( the roi has aleady agreed in principle to this )
The uk will be free to trade outside eu with the largest economies of the world on its own terms.
The uk should be free to develop its own immigration policy following a needs based model
The EU will continue down the route of 'ever closer union'
The eu will remove Irelands ability to set corporation tax in the coming years and with it the last thread of soverignty.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 23, 2016, 09:47:52 AM
•   Brendan Simms: Prospect of Brexit should fill Ireland with dread
•   The confederal structure of the EU means the Irish are less well-represented in Brussels than they were at Westminster
•   about 10 hours ago
•   Brendan Simms
•   
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•   
•   Ireland has recently elected a new Government. The most important vote for the Irish this year, however, will be taking place next door, on June 23rd, when the United Kingdom decides whether or not to remain in the European Union.
•   The prospect of Brexit should fill Ireland with dread. It could have severe economic repercussions, lead to the re-establishment of border controls as mandated by the EU with a non-member-state outside of Schengen, and reignite tensions in the North. All this is possible, not because of any shift within Ireland or any new problems between Dublin and London, but as a result of Britain’s difficulties with the EU. The Anglo-Irish relationship, in short, will be determined not by a purely bilateral dynamic but by a broader European one.
•   It was ever thus. The continental context has always been the decisive factor in English, and later British, politics and thus in relationships within these islands. This was mainly because English, and later British, strategists feared that Ireland might serve as the “back door” to England, and rightly so. One claimant to the English throne, Lambert Simnel, was crowned in Dublin in 1487 and backed by the Irish parliament. In the 16th century – especially after the onset of the Reformation which saw England and Scotland become largely Protestant, while Ireland remained Catholic – the entire island became an arena of foreign intrigue, first by France and then the Habsburgs. In 1601 a Spanish expedition to support the rebellion of the Ulster lords O’Neill and O’Donnell was defeated at Kinsale, but it was a close-run thing. Right at the end of the 18th century, revolutionary France sent two expeditions to Ireland; that under Gen Humbert landed in support of the 1798 rebellion. The lesson of all this was clear: what happened in Ireland would not necessarily stay in Ireland.
•   Throughout all this, London experimented with various ways of dealing with Ireland which went beyond the merely repressive and reactive. In 1494 the English government pushed through Poynings Law, which asserted the supremacy of Westminster over the Dublin parliament. This was intended to ensure no pretender could claim the legitimate backing of the Irish parliament. Later, Britain imposed the discriminatory “penal laws” on Irish Catholics, partly to underpin the land settlement but mainly for fear that they would intrigue with outside powers. English security, in effect, was bought at the price of Irish inferiority.
•   Pacifying Ireland
•   Following the trauma of the 1798 rebellion, the British government pushed through the Act of Union with Ireland in 1800-01, which was originally supposed to be accompanied by Catholic Emancipation. The narrowly strategic purpose was the desire to pacify Ireland and to prevent the French from opening up a new front there. The second and broader concern was to tap into the vast reservoir of untapped manpower represented by Irish Catholics. “Supposing there were no other reasons which rendered the union of the sister kingdoms desirable”, the under-secretary for Ireland Edward Cooke argued, “the state of Europe, and especially of France, seems to dictate it.”
•   The planned union had the potential to square all the circles, by addressing the security concerns of London, reconciling Irishmen to each other, and giving them through parliamentary merger a voice in the larger whole (which was often considerable). However, it got off to a bad start when Catholic Emancipation was delayed until 1829, and throughout the 19th century the clamour for “repeal” and then Home Rule grew ever louder. London saw these demands as the thin end of a separatist wedge which would destroy the cohesion of the empire, and weaken its western defences. Ireland, the Liberal Unionist and sometime chancellor of the exchequer George Goschen feared, would become a separate nation “planted on our flanks”.
•   In 1921, with Irish independence, Britain lost control over her western flank, and struggled more than it needed to during the subsequent battle for the Atlantic against Hitler. Britain was also obliged to provide its neighbour protection against the totalitarian storms of the 20th century gratis (albeit with the help of Irish volunteers in the British army). Independent Ireland called itself a Free State, and then a Republic, but in security terms it was a free rider.
•   Ireland too suffered. The island was partitioned into two European states, with a Border going up between the six and the 26 counties. Moreover, independence proved to be an illusion. The Irish pound was pegged to sterling and interest rates were effectively set by the Bank of England. Voters resident in the 26 counties, who had once held the balance of power in the United Kingdom, were no longer represented at Westminster. Once again, the really major decisions were being taken somewhere else without any Irish participation.
•   Entry into the EEC, possible only in tandem with Britain, was supposed to change all this, by using “Europe” to balance Britain economically, politically and psychologically. Unusually among European states, Ireland went into “Europe” in order to contain not Germany, but the United Kingdom.
•   At first all went well. Ireland boomed economically. Ignorant of the political and economic implications of the common currency – much better understood by London, which remained aloof – Dublin joined the euro. The internal Northern settlement in the “Good Friday Agreement” was embedded within a wider European process of integration which helped to lower tensions within Northern Ireland, across the Border and across the Irish Sea.
•   Triangular relationship
•   But those who thought history had now effectively ended, with the Irish Republic taking its place as an equal partner alongside the United Kingdom in the EU were to be rudely disabused by events. In 2008 the Irish banks collapsed, and Ireland was for a while effectively placed under international, mainly European administration.
•   The confederal structure of the European Union means the Irish are less well-represented in Brussels than they were at Westminster, perhaps even less than if they were still part of the UK. All this would be made worse by Brexit.
•   The irony here is that the current margin between the “ins” and “outs” in the UK is much smaller than the electorate of the Republic of Ireland. One way or the other, the prospect of Brexit, which the Taoiseach has defined as a “major strategic risk”, once again threatens to reshape the asymmetric triangular relationship between Ireland, the UK and the continent.
•   Brendan Simms is the author of Britain’s Europe: A Thousand Years of Conflict and Cooperation (Penguin Press, May 2016) and president of the Project for Democratic Union
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: supersub on June 23, 2016, 09:51:29 AM
I do not know how any lay person can be well enough informed to take the risk, and that is what it is, to vote to leave the EU. The carefully chosen spin you hear from Brexit campaigners should certainly not be enough to shape public views. The whole thing is built on if, buts, maybes and more than anything, assumptions. They assume they will be better of, they assume they will have more control. Serious risk.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: muppet on June 23, 2016, 09:56:43 AM
Leave

My reasons:

The EU is not preforming well economically.
There are any numbers reasons for that, for example you are way further down the Quantitive Easing road than the Eurozone, have no manufacturing, rely completely on the City etc. - so your own fault really.
Quote
The uk imports more from eu than exports so a trade agreement will be a no brainer for them. ( the roi has aleady agreed in principle to this )
Have you ever met politicians before? If you thought Cameron's tweaking talks were tough, this will be brutal.
Quote
The uk will be free to trade outside eu with the largest economies of the world on its own terms.
We could do that with Mayo, but I don't see any major advantages, I do see major dis-advantages though.
Quote
The uk should be free to develop its own immigration policy following a needs based model
UK immigration problems are historic, relating to the Empire and subsequent Commonwealth, and the exploitation of same. Leaving the EU will do NOTHING for those historical problems.
Quote
The EU will continue down the route of 'ever closer union'
Maybe, hard to know. The last year has set that back a long way.
Quote
The eu will remove Irelands ability to set corporation tax in the coming years and with it the last thread of soverignty.
So why would Britain vote to leave then? Surely Britain are desperate for us to raise corporation tax? If Britain leaves, we can probably raise it anyway as all the American companies will move here.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: laceer on June 23, 2016, 10:09:42 AM
Remain for me.

Not overly interested in economic performance, trade agreements or immigration policies.

The continued ability to travel freely throughout Europe is my main reason.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: The Down Way on June 23, 2016, 10:11:01 AM
I voted to leave, they say a change is as good as a rest.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: BennyHarp on June 23, 2016, 10:21:35 AM
A woman on a radio just said she's still undecided so will flip a coin! Jesus wept!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Oghams Law on June 23, 2016, 10:22:26 AM
Muppet,
Im irish, but I can vote on this
As regards immigration 150,000 eu citizens settled in uk last year alone so wouldnt say leaving the eu would have no impact  ;D
As regards corp tax Britain wont vote in Irelands interest, but I will
I have met politicians and no idea what your on about with mayo
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on June 23, 2016, 10:26:49 AM
I'm in.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: muppet on June 23, 2016, 10:29:23 AM
Muppet,
Im irish, but I can vote on this
As regards immigration 150,000 eu citizens settled in uk last year alone so wouldnt say leaving the eu would have no impact  ;D
As regards corp tax Britain wont vote in Irelands interest, but I will
I have met politicians and no idea what your on about with mayo

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


If you are voting for Brexit 'in Ireland's interests', then I can understand. Watching Britain destroy itself might be fun, but I would expect some very nasty side-effects down the road.

Mayo could leave the EU and would '...be free to trade outside eu with the largest economies of the world on its own terms'. Like I said I see no advantage to being a smaller weaker party at the negotiations but I see lots of downside. Only 7% of EU exports go to Britain whereas something like 40% of British exports go to the EU. Ireland will feature highly in both of those numbers, but the EU will have all of the leverage.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 23, 2016, 10:30:17 AM
Immigration is a key plank of neoliberalism. The ideology generates SFA economic growth because it takes money from ordinary people to give to the rich.   Immigration does generate growth though since the more people in a country the more money they spend. If the population grows by 2% then economic activity increases.

Changing the economic system is urgent. Without neoliberalism immigration would fall and workers would get pay rises .
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: muppet on June 23, 2016, 10:38:10 AM
Immigration is a key plank of neoliberalism. The ideology generates SFA economic growth because it takes money from ordinary people to give to the rich.   Immigration does generate growth though since the more people in a country the more money they spend. If the population grows by 2% then economic activity increases.

Changing the economic system is urgent. Without neoliberalism immigration would fall and workers would get pay rises .

There was immigration before neoliberalism and there will be immigration long after whatever the hell you think neoliberalism is and during whatever buzz-word du jour era comes next.

It is the most basic form of economics.

Assuming a certain level of competence do you hire:

a) the local guy who charges more;
or
b) the foreigner who charges less;

Although you, in particular, think everyone hires from b), if you ask people they will all say a). The answer is usually a little from column a) and a little from column b). It has always been thus, with the possible exception of countries who were extremely poor in the past, and will always be thus.

Britain can't close its borders to it Empirical past. The EU and neoliberalism has nothing to do with that.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: NAG1 on June 23, 2016, 10:39:32 AM
Muppet,
Im irish, but I can vote on this
As regards immigration 150,000 eu citizens settled in uk last year alone so wouldnt say leaving the eu would have no impact  ;D
As regards corp tax Britain wont vote in Irelands interest, but I will
I have met politicians and no idea what your on about with mayo

Any Irish person using immigration as an excuse, needs to take a serious look at themselves.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: yellowcard on June 23, 2016, 10:46:42 AM
Leave

My reasons:

The uk should be free to develop its own immigration policy following a needs based model


Am I right in saying your Irish, living in the UK and want to control immigration?!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Oghams Law on June 23, 2016, 11:05:21 AM
Leave

My reasons:

The uk should be free to develop its own immigration policy following a needs based model


Am I right in saying your Irish, living in the UK and want to control immigration?!

Yeah theres quite a few of us in Tyrone
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Lazer on June 23, 2016, 11:10:56 AM
Leave

The EU is unrecognizable from the EEC that the UK voted for in 1975

What with the EU be like in 2025 - will it even be recognizable as the same one we are voting for today?

I fully support the EEC, and the original concepts of free trade and free movement of labour between countries that are economically, politically and culturally similar, however the EU has become a political body as well as a trading body, and the 28 member states are no longer similar enough for the concept to be a success.

The EU (and especially the Euro) are failing in my opinion

Don't like the unfair competition laws - ie: A country can't prop up failing businesses and protect employment as this would be considered state aid and yet the EU can encourage investment in disadvantaged areas and give them aid in the form of grants.

The reduction in the block grant if we lower corporation tax, is mandated by the EU (OK Westminster may (and probably would have) have choosen to reduce it anyway, but at least there would be a possibility it may not be reduced or at least negotiated a better deal)

The EU is enforcing laws and austerity measures on Ireland, water charges are/were mandatory as part of the measures enforced by the EU as a condition of the bailout, which they forced Ireland to accept.

I don't like the EU overruling the laws of a member nation and being able to force them to comply.

Its bad enough being ruled by the UK, its worse being ruled by an even further detached foreign parliament.



Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Oghams Law on June 23, 2016, 11:12:09 AM
Muppet,
Im irish, but I can vote on this
As regards immigration 150,000 eu citizens settled in uk last year alone so wouldnt say leaving the eu would have no impact  ;D
As regards corp tax Britain wont vote in Irelands interest, but I will
I have met politicians and no idea what your on about with mayo

Any Irish person using immigration as an excuse, needs to take a serious look at themselves.

How so? Controlling Immigration I said not stopping it. There are many Irish people in Australia atm (my family members amoung them). Australia controls immigration based on their needs. Common sense I would of thought. Do you see the difference?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: muppet on June 23, 2016, 11:13:06 AM
Leave

The EU is unrecognizable from the EEC that the UK voted for in 1975

What with the EU be like in 2025 - will it even be recognizable as the same one we are voting for today?

I fully support the EEC, and the original concepts of free trade and free movement of labour between countries that are economically, politically and culturally similar, however the EU has become a political body as well as a trading body, and the 28 member states are no longer similar enough for the concept to be a success.

The EU (and especially the Euro) are failing in my opinion

Don't like the unfair competition laws - ie: A country can't prop up failing businesses and protect employment as this would be considered state aid and yet the EU can encourage investment in disadvantaged areas and give them aid in the form of grants.

The reduction in the block grant if we lower corporation tax, is mandated by the EU (OK Westminster may have choosen to reduce it anyway, but at least there would be a possibility it may not be reduced)

The EU is enforcing laws and austerity measures on Ireland, water charges are/were mandatory as part of the measures enforced by the EU as a condition of the bailout, which they forced Ireland to accept.

I don't like the EU overruling the laws of a member nation and being able to force them to comply.

Its bad enough being ruled by the UK, its worse being ruled by an even further detached foreign parliament.

Are you confusing the Eurozone and the EU?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Keyboard Warrior on June 23, 2016, 11:16:24 AM
The EU is unrecognizable from the EEC that the UK voted for in 1975

What with the EU be like in 2025 - will it even be recognizable as the same one we are voting for today?

I fully support the EEC, and the original concepts of free trade and free movement of labour between countries that are economically, politically and culturally similar, however the EU has become a political body as well as a trading body, and the 28 member states are no longer similar enough for the concept to be a success.

The EU (and especially the Euro) are failing in my opinion

Don't like the unfair competition laws - ie: A country can't prop up failing businesses and protect employment as this would be considered state aid and yet the EU can encourage investment in disadvantaged areas and give them aid in the form of grants.

The reduction in the block grant if we lower corporation tax, is mandated by the EU (OK Westminster may (and probably would have) have choosen to reduce it anyway, but at least there would be a possibility it may not be reduced or at least negotiated a better deal)

The EU is enforcing laws and austerity measures on Ireland, water charges are/were mandatory as part of the measures enforced by the EU as a condition of the bailout, which they forced Ireland to accept.

I don't like the EU overruling the laws of a member nation and being able to force them to comply.

Its bad enough being ruled by the UK, its worse being ruled by an even further detached foreign parliament.

+1
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: NAG1 on June 23, 2016, 11:19:16 AM
Muppet,
Im irish, but I can vote on this
As regards immigration 150,000 eu citizens settled in uk last year alone so wouldnt say leaving the eu would have no impact  ;D
As regards corp tax Britain wont vote in Irelands interest, but I will
I have met politicians and no idea what your on about with mayo

Any Irish person using immigration as an excuse, needs to take a serious look at themselves.

How so? Controlling Immigration I said not stopping it. There are many Irish people in Australia atm (my family members amoung them). Australia controls immigration based on their needs. Common sense I would of thought. Do you see the difference?

So those that fled to America or anywhere for economic/ famine etc, what about those?
So when other countries/ peoples are experiencing the same kind of human disasters, we say no its ok we are sorted now and we comfortable you sort your own mess out?

Short term memory
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Rossfan on June 23, 2016, 11:25:58 AM
Wait till the Spanish send all them Brits back home as illegals.
And no matter what the Brits do they have to take in people seeking asylum or will they leave the UN too " because it's more foreigners telling them what to do"
If the Brits leave the EU what happens with the 800,000 Irish( EU)  citizens in the 6 Cos?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Lazer on June 23, 2016, 11:46:30 AM
Leave

The EU is unrecognizable from the EEC that the UK voted for in 1975

What with the EU be like in 2025 - will it even be recognizable as the same one we are voting for today?

I fully support the EEC, and the original concepts of free trade and free movement of labour between countries that are economically, politically and culturally similar, however the EU has become a political body as well as a trading body, and the 28 member states are no longer similar enough for the concept to be a success.

The EU (and especially the Euro) are failing in my opinion

Don't like the unfair competition laws - ie: A country can't prop up failing businesses and protect employment as this would be considered state aid and yet the EU can encourage investment in disadvantaged areas and give them aid in the form of grants.

The reduction in the block grant if we lower corporation tax, is mandated by the EU (OK Westminster may have choosen to reduce it anyway, but at least there would be a possibility it may not be reduced)

The EU is enforcing laws and austerity measures on Ireland, water charges are/were mandatory as part of the measures enforced by the EU as a condition of the bailout, which they forced Ireland to accept.

I don't like the EU overruling the laws of a member nation and being able to force them to comply.

Its bad enough being ruled by the UK, its worse being ruled by an even further detached foreign parliament.

Are you confusing the Eurozone and the EU?

The EU is not the Eurozone but The Eurozone is part of the EU (and the majority part at that)

I am voting to what I think is in the best interests of Ireland (North and South).

A UK vote could be the beginning of the end for the EU, there are indications of France and the Netherlands wanting out too.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Oghams Law on June 23, 2016, 11:49:00 AM

So those that fled to America or anywhere for economic/ famine etc, what about those?
So when other countries/ peoples are experiencing the same kind of human disasters, we say no its ok we are sorted now and we comfortable you sort your own mess out?

Short term memory
[/quote]

Bit off topic here as the issue is eu immigration. I only used the oz example as that of a country with control of their own policy.
Are you saying that immigration from economically poor, war torn or famine ravaged areas ect.. shouldn't be controlled?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 23, 2016, 11:49:20 AM
Support  for Farage and the DUP is not in the interests of any part of Ireland.
This is too important  to be associated with fad trivialities like water charges.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Lazer on June 23, 2016, 11:53:57 AM
Wait till the Spanish send all them Brits back home as illegals.
And no matter what the Brits do they have to take in people seeking asylum or will they leave the UN too " because it's more foreigners telling them what to do"
If the Brits leave the EU what happens with the 800,000 Irish( EU)  citizens in the 6 Cos?

They can't sent the Brits home anymore than the Brits can send the Polish home.

Vienna Convention means they have the right to stay.

It can stop more Brits going to Spain, and more Eastern Europeans coming to the UK, but won't change the residency rights of the ones already moved.

As for the 6 counties - our right to dual nationality shouldn't be affected by the UK leaving the EU, we are still entitled to an Irish Passport and Irish (therefore EU) citizenship.

Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: No wides on June 23, 2016, 11:55:47 AM
I do not know how any lay person can be well enough informed to take the risk, and that is what it is, to vote to leave the EU. The carefully chosen spin you hear from Brexit campaigners should certainly not be enough to shape public views. The whole thing is built on if, buts, maybes and more than anything, assumptions. They assume they will be better of, they assume they will have more control. Serious risk.

And not knowing what the EU has planned down the line is a major assumption on voting remain also.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: No wides on June 23, 2016, 11:57:25 AM
Muppet,
Im irish, but I can vote on this
As regards immigration 150,000 eu citizens settled in uk last year alone so wouldnt say leaving the eu would have no impact  ;D
As regards corp tax Britain wont vote in Irelands interest, but I will
I have met politicians and no idea what your on about with mayo

Any Irish person using immigration as an excuse, needs to take a serious look at themselves.

Yeah because not having enough housing, school places, doctors etc to deal with what is here, isn't a real issue, unless you are implying they are all racist?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 23, 2016, 12:00:13 PM
HL Mencken. For every problem, there is a solution that is neat, plausible and wrong. 



The big issue that overshadows the Brexit vote and the Trump phenomenon is the failed economic system.
It is this :
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/01/15/40-years-of-economic-policy-in-one-chart/

The EU could be reformed to be a union that works for ordinary people again.
But people have to fight for that to happen.

No matter how well-written or delivered, a speech cannot divert whole societies from a well-established course of action. Policies in motion tend to remain in motion; to change the trajectory of a deeply-entrenched set of initiatives requires the application of political forces of equal momentum.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Lazer on June 23, 2016, 12:00:31 PM
Support  for Farage and the DUP is not in the interests of any part of Ireland.
This is too important  to be associated with fad trivialities like water charges.

The decision is too important to be made on the basis of what political parties support it.

Its not about trivialities, its about the bigger picture, and the fact that the EU has the ability to override a countries right to rule itself.

The water charges is just one example whereby the EU has forced its opinion on Ireland or the UK - there are a load more.

We vote for a government, they make a decision, that's democracy. The EU overrides that decision - that's undemocratic.

Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: No wides on June 23, 2016, 12:02:48 PM
Everyone one who votes remain should remember how good that made them feel when they get their European tax code.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 23, 2016, 12:08:43 PM
We vote  for a government,  which has made agreements with others in a club called the EU. We are the EU,  it isn't someone else.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Applesisapples on June 23, 2016, 12:11:13 PM
Set aside the economic arguments, which in my view can be twisted either way. If you want border controls when you go any where in the EU vote Brexit, if you want the NHS collapsing because we can't train enough local staff vote Brexit. If you want red tape and Custom houses from Lifford to Newry vote Brexit.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Rossfan on June 23, 2016, 12:17:11 PM
What's a European tax code?
When was it introduced?
The red herrings are fairly flying from no wides and Lazer ::)
And they even got every loonyleftie's favourite subject in " water charges".
The English/Scots/ Welsh will still be paying for water if they leave the EU and it won't be long before the 6 Cos will be taken off life support by the London Govt.
Meanwhile farmers in the 6 Cos will be fcukd without the EU cheque while cheap South American beef will close them down altogether.
And the EU wont have much time for Irish citizens living outside the EU.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Lazer on June 23, 2016, 12:24:14 PM
Set aside the economic arguments, which in my view can be twisted either way. If you want border controls when you go any where in the EU vote Brexit, if you want the NHS collapsing because we can't train enough local staff vote Brexit. If you want red tape and Custom houses from Lifford to Newry vote Brexit.

Immigration to the NHS will not stop because of a Brexit - we have plenty of Asians training to be medical staff here and Asia isn't in the EU.

As for customs, ever walked through Dublin or Belfast airport coming off a non EU flight? How often do you get stopped? Its mainly a matter of spot checks and putting the emphasis on you declare any goods which may be subject to tariffs or import taxes.


Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: AQMP on June 23, 2016, 12:24:50 PM
Muppet,
Im irish, but I can vote on this
As regards immigration 150,000 eu citizens settled in uk last year alone so wouldnt say leaving the eu would have no impact  ;D
As regards corp tax Britain wont vote in Irelands interest, but I will
I have met politicians and no idea what your on about with mayo

Any Irish person using immigration as an excuse, needs to take a serious look at themselves.

Yeah because not having enough housing, school places, doctors etc to deal with what is here, isn't a real issue, unless you are implying they are all racist?

The pressure on the Health Service, education and housing etc is not the fault of immigrants...it's the fault of people who consistently vote for governments that cut support to the NHS, refuse to invest in building enough affordable homes, and cut budgets to education authorities..i.e the electorate (the vast majority of whom aren't immigrants)
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: muppet on June 23, 2016, 01:02:13 PM
Set aside the economic arguments, which in my view can be twisted either way. If you want border controls when you go any where in the EU vote Brexit, if you want the NHS collapsing because we can't train enough local staff vote Brexit. If you want red tape and Custom houses from Lifford to Newry vote Brexit.

Immigration to the NHS will not stop because of a Brexit - we have plenty of Asians training to be medical staff here and Asia isn't in the EU.

As for customs, ever walked through Dublin or Belfast airport coming off a non EU flight? How often do you get stopped? Its mainly a matter of spot checks and putting the emphasis on you declare any goods which may be subject to tariffs or import taxes.

You have to pass through non-EU passport control. Even though the line is often shorter, the scrutiny is far, far higher. You often see families left sitting for hours upstream of passport control in Dublin Airport, for example. Many people are deported straight back to where they came from on the basis of passport control.  You'll know all about it if the vote is Leave.

Customs is something completely different entirely.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: No wides on June 23, 2016, 01:06:18 PM
Muppet,
Im irish, but I can vote on this
As regards immigration 150,000 eu citizens settled in uk last year alone so wouldnt say leaving the eu would have no impact  ;D
As regards corp tax Britain wont vote in Irelands interest, but I will
I have met politicians and no idea what your on about with mayo

Any Irish person using immigration as an excuse, needs to take a serious look at themselves.

Yeah because not having enough housing, school places, doctors etc to deal with what is here, isn't a real issue, unless you are implying they are all racist?

The pressure on the Health Service, education and housing etc is not the fault of immigrants...it's the fault of people who consistently vote for governments that cut support to the NHS, refuse to invest in building enough affordable homes, and cut budgets to education authorities..i.e the electorate (the vast majority of whom aren't immigrants)

Yeah nothing to do with immigration!  http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/net-migration-pushes-uk-population-to-over-65-million-a3279016.html (http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/net-migration-pushes-uk-population-to-over-65-million-a3279016.html)
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: No wides on June 23, 2016, 01:08:42 PM
What's a European tax code?
When was it introduced?

The red herrings are fairly flying from no wides and Lazer ::)
And they even got every loonyleftie's favourite subject in " water charges".
The English/Scots/ Welsh will still be paying for water if they leave the EU and it won't be long before the 6 Cos will be taken off life support by the London Govt.
Meanwhile farmers in the 6 Cos will be fcukd without the EU cheque while cheap South American beef will close them down altogether.
And the EU wont have much time for Irish citizens living outside the EU.

You will get it in the next few years when Turkey joins as a pat on the back for keeping the Syrian refugees!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: OgraAnDun on June 23, 2016, 01:09:45 PM
Set aside the economic arguments, which in my view can be twisted either way. If you want border controls when you go any where in the EU vote Brexit, if you want the NHS collapsing because we can't train enough local staff vote Brexit. If you want red tape and Custom houses from Lifford to Newry vote Brexit.

Immigration to the NHS will not stop because of a Brexit - we have plenty of Asians training to be medical staff here and Asia isn't in the EU.

As for customs, ever walked through Dublin or Belfast airport coming off a non EU flight? How often do you get stopped? Its mainly a matter of spot checks and putting the emphasis on you declare any goods which may be subject to tariffs or import taxes.

You have to pass through non-EU passport control. Even though the line is often shorter, the scrutiny is far, far higher. You often see families left sitting for hours upstream of passport control in Dublin Airport, for example. Many people are deported straight back to where they came from on the basis of passport control.  You'll know all about it if the vote is Leave.

Customs is something completely different entirely.

That's only if you don't have an EU passport, I believe? So you could be traveling on an American passport and flying in from Paris and you would still be put in the non-EU queue.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Oghams Law on June 23, 2016, 01:25:10 PM
A Leave vote is the only hope for a Reunited Ireland.
As it stands there is no border and as both countries are governed by the EU not much political difference.Judging by the polls there is no desire for it (around 70 30).  Nationalists are reasonably content with the status quo so somehting needs to happen to change this. It could pave the way for Scottish independance and the break up of the union.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 23, 2016, 01:46:55 PM
A Leave vote is the only hope for a Reunited Ireland.
As it stands there is no border and as both countries are governed by the EU not much political difference.Judging by the polls there is no desire for it (around 70 30).  Nationalists are reasonably content with the status quo so somehting needs to happen to change this. It could pave the way for Scottish independance and the break up of the union.
a UI is inevitable and doesn't depend on the 23rd of June 2016
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: muppet on June 23, 2016, 01:51:46 PM
Set aside the economic arguments, which in my view can be twisted either way. If you want border controls when you go any where in the EU vote Brexit, if you want the NHS collapsing because we can't train enough local staff vote Brexit. If you want red tape and Custom houses from Lifford to Newry vote Brexit.

Immigration to the NHS will not stop because of a Brexit - we have plenty of Asians training to be medical staff here and Asia isn't in the EU.

As for customs, ever walked through Dublin or Belfast airport coming off a non EU flight? How often do you get stopped? Its mainly a matter of spot checks and putting the emphasis on you declare any goods which may be subject to tariffs or import taxes.

You have to pass through non-EU passport control. Even though the line is often shorter, the scrutiny is far, far higher. You often see families left sitting for hours upstream of passport control in Dublin Airport, for example. Many people are deported straight back to where they came from on the basis of passport control.  You'll know all about it if the vote is Leave.

Customs is something completely different entirely.

That's only if you don't have an EU passport, I believe? So you could be traveling on an American passport and flying in from Paris and you would still be put in the non-EU queue.

Of course. Aren't they the devils we are trying to stop?

Leave the EU and every nation will be the devils you are trying to stop. With the probable exception of Ireland.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: AQMP on June 23, 2016, 02:04:15 PM
A Leave vote is the only hope for a Reunited Ireland.
As it stands there is no border and as both countries are governed by the EU not much political difference.Judging by the polls there is no desire for it (around 70 30).  Nationalists are reasonably content with the status quo so somehting needs to happen to change this. It could pave the way for Scottish independance and the break up of the union.

I haven't yet got the logic of Brexit = United Ireland.  Can you explain?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Rois on June 23, 2016, 02:09:09 PM

As for customs, ever walked through Dublin or Belfast airport coming off a non EU flight? How often do you get stopped? Its mainly a matter of spot checks and putting the emphasis on you declare any goods which may be subject to tariffs or import taxes.

Ever driven from Switzerland to France or vice versa?  You're not often stopped, but the queue is huge pain in the a$$.  Airports I can deal with (flying into Geneva isn't too bad).  Roads I pass frequently, and not to go on holiday but to work - not so much!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: OgraAnDun on June 23, 2016, 02:15:09 PM
Set aside the economic arguments, which in my view can be twisted either way. If you want border controls when you go any where in the EU vote Brexit, if you want the NHS collapsing because we can't train enough local staff vote Brexit. If you want red tape and Custom houses from Lifford to Newry vote Brexit.

Immigration to the NHS will not stop because of a Brexit - we have plenty of Asians training to be medical staff here and Asia isn't in the EU.

As for customs, ever walked through Dublin or Belfast airport coming off a non EU flight? How often do you get stopped? Its mainly a matter of spot checks and putting the emphasis on you declare any goods which may be subject to tariffs or import taxes.

You have to pass through non-EU passport control. Even though the line is often shorter, the scrutiny is far, far higher. You often see families left sitting for hours upstream of passport control in Dublin Airport, for example. Many people are deported straight back to where they came from on the basis of passport control.  You'll know all about it if the vote is Leave.

Customs is something completely different entirely.

That's only if you don't have an EU passport, I believe? So you could be traveling on an American passport and flying in from Paris and you would still be put in the non-EU queue.

Of course. Aren't they the devils we are trying to stop?

Leave the EU and every nation will be the devils you are trying to stop. With the probable exception of Ireland.

Any nationalist should have an Irish passport anyway so shouldn't give a toss about that. I've driven from France to Swizterland and back before and never had to bother with any queues or traffic.

The Leave=UI argument is that there will be no border and it will move to Britain, Ireland will be treated as one entity and Scotland will leave.

I ended up voting In, mainly because I think it's important that any Brexit is against the will of nationalist areas (who want to remain in the EU and therefore there is an appetite for a UI), and the risk of border posts in Ireland (which I don't believe will happen) was too big a risk, I couldn't be bothered being searched by British soldiers every few days.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Applesisapples on June 23, 2016, 02:20:19 PM
Fcuk it ok lads lets all vote Brexit and sod the consequences sure its no worse than sticking a few quid on with Paddy Power.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 23, 2016, 02:32:35 PM
Fcuk it ok lads lets all vote Brexit and sod the consequences sure its no worse than sticking a few quid on with Paddy Power.

OK we'll  have a recession  and checkpoints and anarchy in order areas,  but we'll have made a point about water  charges
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: No wides on June 23, 2016, 02:38:43 PM
Fcuk it ok lads lets all vote Brexit and sod the consequences sure its no worse than sticking a few quid on with Paddy Power.

OK we'll  have a recession  and checkpoints and anarchy in order areas,  but we'll have made a point about water  charges

You really bought into the fear campaign!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: LeoMc on June 23, 2016, 03:15:12 PM
Muppet,
Im irish, but I can vote on this
As regards immigration 150,000 eu citizens settled in uk last year alone so wouldnt say leaving the eu would have no impact  ;D
As regards corp tax Britain wont vote in Irelands interest, but I will
I have met politicians and no idea what your on about with mayo

Any Irish person using immigration as an excuse, needs to take a serious look at themselves.

Yeah because not having enough housing, school places, doctors etc to deal with what is here, isn't a real issue, unless you are implying they are all racist?

The pressure on the Health Service, education and housing etc is not the fault of immigrants...it's the fault of people who consistently vote for governments that cut support to the NHS, refuse to invest in building enough affordable homes, and cut budgets to education authorities..i.e the electorate (the vast majority of whom aren't immigrants)

Yeah nothing to do with immigration!  http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/net-migration-pushes-uk-population-to-over-65-million-a3279016.html (http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/net-migration-pushes-uk-population-to-over-65-million-a3279016.html)
So if the infrastructure cannot handle a >1% increase in population, half of which is UK births and half of the remainder from outside the EU it is all the fault of the 0.0025% immigrants from inside the EU for pushing it over the edge?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: LeoMc on June 23, 2016, 03:17:06 PM
What's a European tax code?
When was it introduced?

The red herrings are fairly flying from no wides and Lazer ::)
And they even got every loonyleftie's favourite subject in " water charges".
The English/Scots/ Welsh will still be paying for water if they leave the EU and it won't be long before the 6 Cos will be taken off life support by the London Govt.
Meanwhile farmers in the 6 Cos will be fcukd without the EU cheque while cheap South American beef will close them down altogether.
And the EU wont have much time for Irish citizens living outside the EU.

You will get it in the next few years when Turkey joins as a pat on the back for keeping the Syrian refugees!
And they meet the 35 non-negotiable conditions (only 1 of which they have met since 1987)  and all 28 current Countries (including the UK and Cyprus) accept them.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Rossfan on June 23, 2016, 03:21:27 PM
What's a European tax code?
When was it introduced?

The red herrings are fairly flying from no wides and Lazer ::)
And they even got every loonyleftie's favourite subject in " water charges".
The English/Scots/ Welsh will still be paying for water if they leave the EU and it won't be long before the 6 Cos will be taken off life support by the London Govt.
Meanwhile farmers in the 6 Cos will be fcukd without the EU cheque while cheap South American beef will close them down altogether.
And the EU wont have much time for Irish citizens living outside the EU.

You will get it in the next few years when Turkey joins as a pat on the back for keeping the Syrian refugees!

Any chance you could list the winners of all next weekend's horse races.?
What is a " European tax code"?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 23, 2016, 03:28:12 PM
Turkey joining  the EU  will be nothing  compared to Azerbaijan.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 23, 2016, 03:33:24 PM
Fcuk it ok lads lets all vote Brexit and sod the consequences sure its no worse than sticking a few quid on with Paddy Power.

OK we'll  have a recession  and checkpoints and anarchy in order areas,  but we'll have made a point about water  charges

Checkpoints might stop the red and green diesel smugglers making money, so that's not a bad thing? Still undecided but by all accounts this will be a remain anyways.....

Seen a great post about how the immigrants are stealing jobs.. They don't!! they are doing the jobs here that no one wants to do..... if we close down this avenue for immigrants to come here to work in our health service our Moy Parks and the other industries that they have increased the production rates who is going to do it?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 23, 2016, 03:58:31 PM
Fcuk it ok lads lets all vote Brexit and sod the consequences sure its no worse than sticking a few quid on with Paddy Power.

OK we'll  have a recession  and checkpoints and anarchy in order areas,  but we'll have made a point about water  charges

Checkpoints might stop the red and green diesel smugglers making money, so that's not a bad thing? Still undecided but by all accounts this will be a remain anyways.....


A Brexit would be a smugglers paradise, only the legit businesses would suffer the delays
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 23, 2016, 05:03:44 PM
Fcuk it ok lads lets all vote Brexit and sod the consequences sure its no worse than sticking a few quid on with Paddy Power.

OK we'll  have a recession  and checkpoints and anarchy in order areas,  but we'll have made a point about water  charges

Checkpoints might stop the red and green diesel smugglers making money, so that's not a bad thing? Still undecided but by all accounts this will be a remain anyways.....


A Brexit would be a smugglers paradise, only the legit businesses would suffer the delays

So there wouldn't be checkpoints? I'm confused you said there would be checkpoints now it would be a smugglers paradise if there was border checkpoints!!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: No wides on June 23, 2016, 05:04:29 PM
Fcuk it ok lads lets all vote Brexit and sod the consequences sure its no worse than sticking a few quid on with Paddy Power.

OK we'll  have a recession  and checkpoints and anarchy in order areas,  but we'll have made a point about water  charges

Checkpoints might stop the red and green diesel smugglers making money, so that's not a bad thing? Still undecided but by all accounts this will be a remain anyways.....

Seen a great post about how the immigrants are stealing jobs.. They don't!! they are doing the jobs here that no one wants to do..... if we close down this avenue for immigrants to come here to work in our health service our Moy Parks and the other industries that they have increased the production rates who is going to do it?

That's right they are washing your status symbol.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: No wides on June 23, 2016, 05:05:35 PM
Muppet,
Im irish, but I can vote on this
As regards immigration 150,000 eu citizens settled in uk last year alone so wouldnt say leaving the eu would have no impact  ;D
As regards corp tax Britain wont vote in Irelands interest, but I will
I have met politicians and no idea what your on about with mayo

Any Irish person using immigration as an excuse, needs to take a serious look at themselves.

Yeah because not having enough housing, school places, doctors etc to deal with what is here, isn't a real issue, unless you are implying they are all racist?

The pressure on the Health Service, education and housing etc is not the fault of immigrants...it's the fault of people who consistently vote for governments that cut support to the NHS, refuse to invest in building enough affordable homes, and cut budgets to education authorities..i.e the electorate (the vast majority of whom aren't immigrants)

Yeah nothing to do with immigration!  http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/net-migration-pushes-uk-population-to-over-65-million-a3279016.html (http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/net-migration-pushes-uk-population-to-over-65-million-a3279016.html)
So if the infrastructure cannot handle a >1% increase in population, half of which is UK births and half of the remainder from outside the EU it is all the fault of the 0.0025% immigrants from inside the EU for pushing it over the edge?

Year on year and expected to get more and more - short answer is no.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: No wides on June 23, 2016, 05:06:54 PM
What's a European tax code?
When was it introduced?

The red herrings are fairly flying from no wides and Lazer ::)
And they even got every loonyleftie's favourite subject in " water charges".
The English/Scots/ Welsh will still be paying for water if they leave the EU and it won't be long before the 6 Cos will be taken off life support by the London Govt.
Meanwhile farmers in the 6 Cos will be fcukd without the EU cheque while cheap South American beef will close them down altogether.
And the EU wont have much time for Irish citizens living outside the EU.

You will get it in the next few years when Turkey joins as a pat on the back for keeping the Syrian refugees!
And they meet the 35 non-negotiable conditions (only 1 of which they have met since 1987)  and all 28 current Countries (including the UK and Cyprus) accept them.

You have your head up your hole if you think Turkey won't get special treatment to join.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: muppet on June 23, 2016, 05:51:11 PM
Set aside the economic arguments, which in my view can be twisted either way. If you want border controls when you go any where in the EU vote Brexit, if you want the NHS collapsing because we can't train enough local staff vote Brexit. If you want red tape and Custom houses from Lifford to Newry vote Brexit.

Immigration to the NHS will not stop because of a Brexit - we have plenty of Asians training to be medical staff here and Asia isn't in the EU.

As for customs, ever walked through Dublin or Belfast airport coming off a non EU flight? How often do you get stopped? Its mainly a matter of spot checks and putting the emphasis on you declare any goods which may be subject to tariffs or import taxes.

You have to pass through non-EU passport control. Even though the line is often shorter, the scrutiny is far, far higher. You often see families left sitting for hours upstream of passport control in Dublin Airport, for example. Many people are deported straight back to where they came from on the basis of passport control.  You'll know all about it if the vote is Leave.

Customs is something completely different entirely.

That's only if you don't have an EU passport, I believe? So you could be traveling on an American passport and flying in from Paris and you would still be put in the non-EU queue.

Of course. Aren't they the devils we are trying to stop?

Leave the EU and every nation will be the devils you are trying to stop. With the probable exception of Ireland.

Any nationalist should have an Irish passport anyway so shouldn't give a toss about that. I've driven from France to Swizterland and back before and never had to bother with any queues or traffic.

The Leave=UI argument is that there will be no border and it will move to Britain, Ireland will be treated as one entity and Scotland will leave.

I ended up voting In, mainly because I think it's important that any Brexit is against the will of nationalist areas (who want to remain in the EU and therefore there is an appetite for a UI), and the risk of border posts in Ireland (which I don't believe will happen) was too big a risk, I couldn't be bothered being searched by British soldiers every few days.

Do you know why you weren't bothered by queues or traffic?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: LeoMc on June 23, 2016, 05:54:37 PM
What's a European tax code?
When was it introduced?

The red herrings are fairly flying from no wides and Lazer ::)
And they even got every loonyleftie's favourite subject in " water charges".
The English/Scots/ Welsh will still be paying for water if they leave the EU and it won't be long before the 6 Cos will be taken off life support by the London Govt.
Meanwhile farmers in the 6 Cos will be fcukd without the EU cheque while cheap South American beef will close them down altogether.
And the EU wont have much time for Irish citizens living outside the EU.

You will get it in the next few years when Turkey joins as a pat on the back for keeping the Syrian refugees!
And they meet the 35 non-negotiable conditions (only 1 of which they have met since 1987)  and all 28 current Countries (including the UK and Cyprus) accept them.

You have your head up your hole if you think Turkey won't get special treatment to join.
I don't doubt they will get help to meet the 34 criteria but they will still have to meet them. If they do meet those criteria which include human rights, judicial independence, press freedom, religious freedom, etc, I see no issue with them joining. They are wealthier than many Countries already in the EU.
Do you think the Greeks and Cypriots  will just roll over?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: dec on June 23, 2016, 06:25:57 PM
Bild newspaper in Germany has ffered some bribes to encourage a Remain vote.

http://www.bild.de/politik/ausland/brexit/dear-brits-46447914.bild.html

… even we will acknowledge the Wembley goal!
… we will stop making jokes about Prince Charles’s ears!
… we will no longer use sunscreen at the beach – in solidarity with your sunburns!
we will do without our goalkeeper for the next round of penalties, for more excitement!
… we will voluntarily provide the bad guy for any James Bond movie!
… we will introduce tea time with buckets at the Ballermann!
… we will immediately turns our clocks back one hour!
… we will reserve the hotel sunloungers for you with our towels in the morning!
… we will introduce an EU directive banning foam on beer!
… Jogi Löw will guard your crown jewels!
… we will all attend the Queen’s 100th birthday!

I'd still put my money on Germany in a penalty shoot out
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on June 23, 2016, 06:28:18 PM
Brexit (6/1) finished down the field in the 6:10 at Newbury:

http://www.irishracing.com/horse?name=Brexit&prt=532707 (http://www.irishracing.com/horse?name=Brexit&prt=532707)
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: No wides on June 23, 2016, 06:54:53 PM
What's a European tax code?
When was it introduced?

The red herrings are fairly flying from no wides and Lazer ::)
And they even got every loonyleftie's favourite subject in " water charges".
The English/Scots/ Welsh will still be paying for water if they leave the EU and it won't be long before the 6 Cos will be taken off life support by the London Govt.
Meanwhile farmers in the 6 Cos will be fcukd without the EU cheque while cheap South American beef will close them down altogether.
And the EU wont have much time for Irish citizens living outside the EU.

You will get it in the next few years when Turkey joins as a pat on the back for keeping the Syrian refugees!
And they meet the 35 non-negotiable conditions (only 1 of which they have met since 1987)  and all 28 current Countries (including the UK and Cyprus) accept them.

You have your head up your hole if you think Turkey won't get special treatment to join.
I don't doubt they will get help to meet the 34 criteria but they will still have to meet them. If they do meet those criteria which include human rights, judicial independence, press freedom, religious freedom, etc, I see no issue with them joining. They are wealthier than many Countries already in the EU.
Do you think the Greeks and Cypriots  will just roll over?

I think in a European state they will do as they are told.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: muppet on June 23, 2016, 07:30:38 PM
http://www.rte.ie/entertainment/2016/0623/797667-game-of-thrones/ (http://www.rte.ie/entertainment/2016/0623/797667-game-of-thrones/)
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: OgraAnDun on June 23, 2016, 07:32:15 PM
Set aside the economic arguments, which in my view can be twisted either way. If you want border controls when you go any where in the EU vote Brexit, if you want the NHS collapsing because we can't train enough local staff vote Brexit. If you want red tape and Custom houses from Lifford to Newry vote Brexit.

Immigration to the NHS will not stop because of a Brexit - we have plenty of Asians training to be medical staff here and Asia isn't in the EU.

As for customs, ever walked through Dublin or Belfast airport coming off a non EU flight? How often do you get stopped? Its mainly a matter of spot checks and putting the emphasis on you declare any goods which may be subject to tariffs or import taxes.

You have to pass through non-EU passport control. Even though the line is often shorter, the scrutiny is far, far higher. You often see families left sitting for hours upstream of passport control in Dublin Airport, for example. Many people are deported straight back to where they came from on the basis of passport control.  You'll know all about it if the vote is Leave.

Customs is something completely different entirely.

That's only if you don't have an EU passport, I believe? So you could be traveling on an American passport and flying in from Paris and you would still be put in the non-EU queue.

Of course. Aren't they the devils we are trying to stop?

Leave the EU and every nation will be the devils you are trying to stop. With the probable exception of Ireland.

Any nationalist should have an Irish passport anyway so shouldn't give a toss about that. I've driven from France to Swizterland and back before and never had to bother with any queues or traffic.

The Leave=UI argument is that there will be no border and it will move to Britain, Ireland will be treated as one entity and Scotland will leave.

I ended up voting In, mainly because I think it's important that any Brexit is against the will of nationalist areas (who want to remain in the EU and therefore there is an appetite for a UI), and the risk of border posts in Ireland (which I don't believe will happen) was too big a risk, I couldn't be bothered being searched by British soldiers every few days.

Do you know why you weren't bothered by queues or traffic?


No, but somebody a few posts above me commented that there are big queues of traffic even though you rarely get stopped. I was refuting their point.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: muppet on June 23, 2016, 07:34:44 PM
Set aside the economic arguments, which in my view can be twisted either way. If you want border controls when you go any where in the EU vote Brexit, if you want the NHS collapsing because we can't train enough local staff vote Brexit. If you want red tape and Custom houses from Lifford to Newry vote Brexit.

Immigration to the NHS will not stop because of a Brexit - we have plenty of Asians training to be medical staff here and Asia isn't in the EU.

As for customs, ever walked through Dublin or Belfast airport coming off a non EU flight? How often do you get stopped? Its mainly a matter of spot checks and putting the emphasis on you declare any goods which may be subject to tariffs or import taxes.

You have to pass through non-EU passport control. Even though the line is often shorter, the scrutiny is far, far higher. You often see families left sitting for hours upstream of passport control in Dublin Airport, for example. Many people are deported straight back to where they came from on the basis of passport control.  You'll know all about it if the vote is Leave.

Customs is something completely different entirely.

That's only if you don't have an EU passport, I believe? So you could be traveling on an American passport and flying in from Paris and you would still be put in the non-EU queue.

Of course. Aren't they the devils we are trying to stop?

Leave the EU and every nation will be the devils you are trying to stop. With the probable exception of Ireland.

Any nationalist should have an Irish passport anyway so shouldn't give a toss about that. I've driven from France to Swizterland and back before and never had to bother with any queues or traffic.

The Leave=UI argument is that there will be no border and it will move to Britain, Ireland will be treated as one entity and Scotland will leave.

I ended up voting In, mainly because I think it's important that any Brexit is against the will of nationalist areas (who want to remain in the EU and therefore there is an appetite for a UI), and the risk of border posts in Ireland (which I don't believe will happen) was too big a risk, I couldn't be bothered being searched by British soldiers every few days.

Do you know why you weren't bothered by queues or traffic?


No, but somebody a few posts above me commented that there are big queues of traffic even though you rarely get stopped. I was refuting their point.

I have absolutely no idea what you point is and the only thing I am certain of at this stage, is that neither do you.  :D
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: OgraAnDun on June 23, 2016, 07:48:29 PM


Any nationalist should have an Irish passport anyway so shouldn't give a toss about that. I've driven from France to Swizterland and back before and never had to bother with any queues or traffic.

The Leave=UI argument is that there will be no border and it will move to Britain, Ireland will be treated as one entity and Scotland will leave.

I ended up voting In, mainly because I think it's important that any Brexit is against the will of nationalist areas (who want to remain in the EU and therefore there is an appetite for a UI), and the risk of border posts in Ireland (which I don't believe will happen) was too big a risk, I couldn't be bothered being searched by British soldiers every few days.

Do you know why you weren't bothered by queues or traffic?


No, but somebody a few posts above me commented that there are big queues of traffic even though you rarely get stopped. I was refuting their point.

I have absolutely no idea what you point is and the only thing I am certain of at this stage, is that neither do you.  :D



As for customs, ever walked through Dublin or Belfast airport coming off a non EU flight? How often do you get stopped? Its mainly a matter of spot checks and putting the emphasis on you declare any goods which may be subject to tariffs or import taxes.

Ever driven from Switzerland to France or vice versa?  You're not often stopped, but the queue is huge pain in the a$$.  Airports I can deal with (flying into Geneva isn't too bad).  Roads I pass frequently, and not to go on holiday but to work - not so much!

Good lad muppet, don't bother checking back over the posts and live up to your username.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: easytiger95 on June 23, 2016, 08:22:38 PM
No particular skin in this game or a vote, but I think I'd be ticking remain, if only for the blatant anti-intellectualism of some of Leave's arguments, especially Gove railing against "experts".

More than willing to get on board with the general public feeling frustrated and hopeless since the economic crisis and the lack of institutional trust that has come with it - but the more and more independent bodies, academics, company heads etc that have warned of an economic shock, the more Leave have reacted like American Republicans confronted with climate change - what would a scientist know more than me?

Plenty, actually.

Also, the morality of facilitating refugees from war zones (countries, by the way, that were formed in the aftermath of WW1 by a colonial carve up between France and the British empire, without any regard for the ethnicity of the local populations, thus guaranteeing at some stage down the line a crisis) added to the fact that all economic studies indicate that immigrants are net contributors to the host country's GDP (by a good long way, immigrants are the least likely social group to access welfare on a long term basis) then to me it seems a fairly rational choice.

I'd also say the public representatives of Leave have let down the majority of their supporters by twisting the arguments. The EU is a flawed enough institution that a coherent argument can be made for leaving, and plenty of democratic populations (including our own) have rejected the EU in referenda over the past two decades.

If perhaps, Leave had fought it on sovereignty alone, and made the point that in addition to negotiating to maintain trade ties with Europe, they would also offer a written constitution after Brexit that would incorporate some of the best aspects of the convention on human rights and the labour protections from Europe, then they could have made an argument to the working class that didn't rest on a lie that there were a load of immigrants swarming in to take their jobs.

The basic point for me is that the No supporters are voting because of fears about austerity and inequality - they would be far better off voting out a Tory government which has gutted the UK since their election in 2010, because of their obsession with the deficit. To get away with this they have demonized immigrants and the EU - but now they realize that Brexit could be such a disaster, and are desperately trying to get the genie back in the bottle. Just as the Republicans have done with Trump.

Post truth politics.

A big decision for everyone, turnout is the key.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: imtommygunn on June 23, 2016, 10:01:40 PM
Fully agree. People would be much better voting tories out first then dealing with eu. They really are going to be the ruination of the whole of the uk and them combined with no eu would cripple ni.

Vote out of eu to give tories full control is quite a frightening prospect. One which i really hope i don't wake up to or it could be moving time.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: muppet on June 23, 2016, 10:08:35 PM


Any nationalist should have an Irish passport anyway so shouldn't give a toss about that. I've driven from France to Swizterland and back before and never had to bother with any queues or traffic.

The Leave=UI argument is that there will be no border and it will move to Britain, Ireland will be treated as one entity and Scotland will leave.

I ended up voting In, mainly because I think it's important that any Brexit is against the will of nationalist areas (who want to remain in the EU and therefore there is an appetite for a UI), and the risk of border posts in Ireland (which I don't believe will happen) was too big a risk, I couldn't be bothered being searched by British soldiers every few days.

Do you know why you weren't bothered by queues or traffic?


No, but somebody a few posts above me commented that there are big queues of traffic even though you rarely get stopped. I was refuting their point.

I have absolutely no idea what you point is and the only thing I am certain of at this stage, is that neither do you.  :D



As for customs, ever walked through Dublin or Belfast airport coming off a non EU flight? How often do you get stopped? Its mainly a matter of spot checks and putting the emphasis on you declare any goods which may be subject to tariffs or import taxes.

Ever driven from Switzerland to France or vice versa?  You're not often stopped, but the queue is huge pain in the a$$.  Airports I can deal with (flying into Geneva isn't too bad).  Roads I pass frequently, and not to go on holiday but to work - not so much!

Good lad muppet, don't bother checking back over the posts and live up to your username.

Here's how it works.

I am answering your post and you can see the conversation in the list of quotes above.

If I now answer a post from somebody else, that isn't listed above or included in a quote, no one but me will have a clue what I am talking about.


And as for the insult: "Good lad muppet, don't bother checking back over the posts and live up to your username."

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: BennyCake on June 23, 2016, 10:24:49 PM
Fully agree. People would be much better voting tories out first then dealing with eu. They really are going to be the ruination of the whole of the uk and them combined with no eu would cripple ni.

Vote out of eu to give tories full control is quite a frightening prospect. One which i really hope i don't wake up to or it could be moving time.

Different choir, same hymn sheet.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 23, 2016, 10:37:08 PM
Fully agree. People would be much better voting tories out first then dealing with eu. They really are going to be the ruination of the whole of the uk and them combined with no eu would cripple ni.

Vote out of eu to give tories full control is quite a frightening prospect. One which i really hope i don't wake up to or it could be moving time.
Well said. Cameron made a dreadful misjudgement calling this vote  . The Tories have no ideas.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 23, 2016, 10:39:42 PM
It will be a remain (well based on the bookies) 56% for remain
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Kidder81 on June 23, 2016, 10:41:53 PM
Fully agree. People would be much better voting tories out first then dealing with eu. They really are going to be the ruination of the whole of the uk and them combined with no eu would cripple ni.

Vote out of eu to give tories full control is quite a frightening prospect. One which i really hope i don't wake up to or it could be moving time.
Well said. Cameron made a dreadful misjudgement calling this vote  . The Tories have no ideas.

Well we may get used to them cos Labour won't be in anytime soon
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: imtommygunn on June 23, 2016, 10:50:14 PM
Yeah it is depressing. What the tories are doing to the nhs is criminal :-(
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: BennyHarp on June 23, 2016, 10:59:54 PM
Farage reckons is a close win for remain.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 23, 2016, 11:02:41 PM
Yeah it is depressing. What the tories are doing to the nhs is criminal :-(

Would the NHS save money if we were charged £10 for doctors appointments and A&E visits?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: thewobbler on June 23, 2016, 11:06:11 PM
Yeah it is depressing. What the tories are doing to the nhs is criminal :-(

No, what Labour did in bloating the NHS was criminal.

Tories are just trying to make it work as a service.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: BennyHarp on June 23, 2016, 11:07:46 PM
Farage reckons is a close win for remain.

Turns out he has unconceded the result now! Its going to be a long night!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: screenexile on June 23, 2016, 11:08:13 PM
Yeah it is depressing. What the tories are doing to the nhs is criminal :-(

Would the NHS save money if we were charged £10 for doctors appointments and A&E visits?

It's a slippery slope once you start charging. First it's a tenner then it will have to be in line with inflation and then who knows.

Remember tuition fees came in at £1,000 and are now up to £9,000 per year!!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 23, 2016, 11:09:39 PM
In this matter,  I do not advocate Brits Out.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: imtommygunn on June 23, 2016, 11:11:02 PM
Yeah it is depressing. What the tories are doing to the nhs is criminal :-(

Would the NHS save money if we were charged £10 for doctors appointments and A&E visits?

Fewer agency workers and more full time workers.

Less layers of management.

Don't need to go down the charge route.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 23, 2016, 11:15:45 PM
Yeah it is depressing. What the tories are doing to the nhs is criminal :-(

Would the NHS save money if we were charged £10 for doctors appointments and A&E visits?

It's a slippery slope once you start charging. First it's a tenner then it will have to be in line with inflation and then who knows.

Remember tuition fees came in at £1,000 and are now up to £9,000 per year!!

I understand but what are the choices ?  NHS is at its knees no money for basic procedures, waiting lists that long that people give up waiting or die!! If they put a 6/7 year freeze at a tenner then you would see the doctors surgery's being a lot shorter and A&E with less people
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Shamrock Shore on June 23, 2016, 11:16:21 PM
Sticking my nose in where it doesn't belong but I do hope Cameron now wields the axe and fires all the cabinet that wanted out.

Yer wan Villers was just on Sky News and she would be top of my list (to fire, nothing else, no tittering down the back)
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 23, 2016, 11:24:17 PM
Sticking my nose in where it doesn't belong but I do hope Cameron now wields the axe and fires all the cabinet that wanted out.

Yer wan Villers was just on Sky News and she would be top of my list (to fire, nothing else, no tittering down the back)

A good spsnking is in order,  before firing.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: imtommygunn on June 23, 2016, 11:35:00 PM
Yeah it is depressing. What the tories are doing to the nhs is criminal :-(

Would the NHS save money if we were charged £10 for doctors appointments and A&E visits?

It's a slippery slope once you start charging. First it's a tenner then it will have to be in line with inflation and then who knows.

Remember tuition fees came in at £1,000 and are now up to £9,000 per year!!



I understand but what are the choices ?  NHS is at its knees no money for basic procedures, waiting lists that long that people give up waiting or die!! If they put a 6/7 year freeze at a tenner then you would see the doctors surgery's being a lot shorter and A&E with less people

It is all smoke and mirrors mr. It is being made very unattractive to push people to private. Incidentally a number of tories have vested interests in private health companies and the likes of hunt has written about how to privatise nhs in earlier political days.

It could be run much more efficiently for less money.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: No wides on June 23, 2016, 11:40:35 PM
Gibraltar says stay - game over!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 23, 2016, 11:45:45 PM
Yeah it is depressing. What the tories are doing to the nhs is criminal :-(

Would the NHS save money if we were charged £10 for doctors appointments and A&E visits?

It's a slippery slope once you start charging. First it's a tenner then it will have to be in line with inflation and then who knows.

Remember tuition fees came in at £1,000 and are now up to £9,000 per year!!



I understand but what are the choices ?  NHS is at its knees no money for basic procedures, waiting lists that long that people give up waiting or die!! If they put a 6/7 year freeze at a tenner then you would see the doctors surgery's being a lot shorter and A&E with less people

It is all smoke and mirrors mr. It is being made very unattractive to push people to private. Incidentally a number of tories have vested interests in private health companies and the likes of hunt has written about how to privatise nhs in earlier political days.

It could be run much more efficiently for less money.

Like a lot of government jobs, but £10 would certainly make money and save money!! Sure we even stopped the prescription charge!! £2.50
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: SkillfulBill on June 23, 2016, 11:52:34 PM
Why does SF put Martina Anderson on TV She is really poor
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 23, 2016, 11:54:18 PM

AND GOD CREATED THE EMERALD ISLE

Once upon a time in the kingdom of Heaven, God went missing for seven days.
Eventually, Michael the archangel found him. He inquired of God, "where were you?".

God sighed a deep sigh of satisfaction and proudly pointed downwards through the clouds; "look son, look what I'm after making". Archangel Michael looked puzzled and said, "what is it?"

God replied, "it's another planet but I'm after putting LIFE on it. I've named it Earth and there's going to be a balance between everything on it. For example, there's North America and South America. North America is going to be rich and South America is going to be poor, and the narrow bit joining them - that's going to be a hot spot. Now look over here. I've put a continent of whites in the north and another one of blacks in the south."

And then the archangel said, "and what's that green dot there?". And God said "ahhh that's the Emerald Isle - that's a very special place. That's going to be the most glorious spot on earth: beautiful mountains, lakes, rivers, streams, and an exquisite coast line."

"These people here are going to be great craic and they're going to be found traveling the world. They'll be playwrights and poets and singers and songwriters. And I'm going to give them this black liquid which they're going to go mad on and for which people will come from the far corners of the earth to imbibe."

Michael the Archangel gasped in wonder and admiration but then seeming startled proclaimed: "Hold on a second, what about the BALANCE, you said there was going to be a balance.

God replied wisely. "Wait until you see the neighbours I'm going to give them"
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Rossfan on June 23, 2016, 11:56:56 PM
Why does SF put Martina Anderson on TV She is really poor
Gender balance?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: heganboy on June 23, 2016, 11:58:38 PM
Any thoughts on where this leaves Arlene foster?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 24, 2016, 12:02:49 AM
Remain 50.7% in Newcastle.
Sunderland next, probably Leave there.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: AQMP on June 24, 2016, 12:12:22 AM
Remain 50.7% in Newcastl
Sunderland next, probably Leave there.

Newcastle is a bad result for Remain
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 24, 2016, 12:18:18 AM
Sunderland 61% Leave.
It might be a long night.

Even the first Scottish place was only 59% Remain.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: BennyCake on June 24, 2016, 12:20:13 AM
Sunderland 61% Leave.
It might be a long night.

Even the first Scottish place was only 59% Remain.

Howay the lads!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: AQMP on June 24, 2016, 12:23:21 AM
Sunderland 61% Leave.
It might be a long night.

Even the first Scottish place was only 59% Remain.

The pound has had a wobble. What is it they say "buy on the rumour, sell on the news". Good results for Leave so far. This could be very close. Paddy Ashdown thinks Leave has it
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Walter Cronc on June 24, 2016, 12:26:46 AM
Sunderland 61% Leave.
It might be a long night.

Even the first Scottish place was only 59% Remain.

Howay the lads!

It's Haway in mackem land ;)
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Aaron Boone on June 24, 2016, 12:29:44 AM
Next result in England is now vital. I think Leave sense they can win this.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: SkillfulBill on June 24, 2016, 12:41:07 AM
Next result in England is now vital. I think Leave sense they can win this.

I think the BBC think they can
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: screenexile on June 24, 2016, 12:42:35 AM
Next result in England is now vital. I think Leave sense they can win this.

PP at 3/10 even after the Newcastle/Sunderland results. Do they know something nobody else does??
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 24, 2016, 12:46:51 AM
1/2 to remain. 6/4 to stay!! Lot tighter than first thought... 4/11 for remain yesterday
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 24, 2016, 12:47:29 AM
1/2 is a good price
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: dec on June 24, 2016, 12:51:48 AM
Foyle 78% remain
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 24, 2016, 12:52:48 AM
Foyle 78%, Remain, respectable outcome.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 24, 2016, 12:54:04 AM
Vast majority nationalist... Have all the national parties said remain??
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 24, 2016, 01:00:28 AM
Vast majority nationalist... Have all the national parties said remain??

Éirígí īloopers wanted out.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: balladmaker on June 24, 2016, 01:06:13 AM
They did indeed, placed their eggs in the basket of destabilising the UK ... England's difficulty is Ireland's opportunity and all of that stuff. 

Fascinating night ahead.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 24, 2016, 01:11:01 AM
With the way things are going, NI may provide any Remain surplus, if there is one.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Aaron Boone on June 24, 2016, 01:12:30 AM
Any sign of customs posts & checkpoints at Newry?

I'm due to be in Sainsburys on Saturday.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 24, 2016, 01:24:10 AM
Any sign of customs posts & checkpoints at Newry?

I'm due to be in Sainsburys on Saturday.

Sterling might be worth about a Euro  by then, the Freestaters will buy the place.

It seems the Westies couldn't be  arsed voting while those in East Belfast could. All very fine unless it comes down to a few thousand votes. So called nationalists.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: AQMP on June 24, 2016, 01:50:46 AM
It looks like Leave have got the vote out
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: screenexile on June 24, 2016, 02:10:59 AM
It looks like Leave have got the vote out

Looking like a bloodbath!! Bookies now odds on for leave.... f**k f**k f**king f**k!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: screenexile on June 24, 2016, 02:46:48 AM
Remain have rallied but this is horrendous viewing...

If only I could get to sleep and not worry about a leave win I could stop watching the fecking coverage!!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: SkillfulBill on June 24, 2016, 03:16:30 AM
Have the DUP turkeys voted for Xmass.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: NetNitrate on June 24, 2016, 03:25:10 AM
Looks like if remain is to win, it's solely down to Nationalist, Scots and Londoners. Unionists, Welsh and the rest of England firmly going leave.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Aaron Boone on June 24, 2016, 03:29:13 AM
That guy in the Mayo jersey interviewed outside Ruislip swung it for Boris.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on June 24, 2016, 03:29:32 AM
Looks like leave are in the lead.
http://www.bbc.com/news
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: NetNitrate on June 24, 2016, 03:33:43 AM
Why do Jeremy and those big info graphics the BBC do look more like a Monty Python sketch?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: AQMP on June 24, 2016, 04:46:54 AM
Everyone now calling it for Leave 52/48. Bookies and pollsters wrong again
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Estimator on June 24, 2016, 04:49:49 AM
ITV and Sky News have both called it for Leave!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: AQMP on June 24, 2016, 04:53:50 AM
 Cameron might have to go! Leave about 900k votes ahead. That looks like enough
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Estimator on June 24, 2016, 04:56:37 AM
Looks like the NI vote was 56 / 44 in favour of remain!

BBC have now projected that the Leave campaign have won!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: screenexile on June 24, 2016, 04:57:25 AM
A done deal we're out!

f**king narrow minded stupid selfish c***ts. The pound currently worth 1.22 and.dropping like a stone. More austerity and recession to come as well as a new leadership election likely to follow with probably f**king Boris to come in.

Fucked!!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 24, 2016, 04:57:36 AM
f**k
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: AQMP on June 24, 2016, 05:01:12 AM
Jo Cox's home constituency votes Leave
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on June 24, 2016, 05:03:27 AM
England/NI fans going to have some shock buying Euros in France tomorrow.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Muck Savage on June 24, 2016, 05:07:02 AM
England/NI fans going to have some shock buying Euros in France tomorrow.

11% drop vs $$
6% drop vs Euro

Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: AQMP on June 24, 2016, 05:12:38 AM
Sterling tumbling. Lowest against $ since 1985.

The question I don't think anyone has the answer to:

What the f**k happens now??
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: screenexile on June 24, 2016, 05:38:44 AM
Well unlike the last time where it was the bankers fault the people themselves have voted for a recession. . . But sure no more migrants will do the jobs they don't want/are too lazy to do so it's great!

Stupid f**king neanderthals!!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Rois on June 24, 2016, 05:58:17 AM
I feel physically sick. Any room across the border for us? I dread what is to come.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: gallsman on June 24, 2016, 05:59:21 AM
Sterling tumbling. Lowest against $ since 1985.

The question I don't think anyone has the answer to:

What the f**k happens now??

Thought about shorting it and didn't have the balls as always.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 24, 2016, 06:06:24 AM
Cameron might have to go! Leave about 900k votes ahead. That looks like enough
He will have to go
Calling the vote was suicidal
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Nigel White on June 24, 2016, 06:08:22 AM
https://youtu.be/37iHSwA1SwE

This sums up what their view on Europe has always been.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 24, 2016, 06:25:32 AM
It will be interesting to see what the DUP's economic paradise looks like. Democracy is about giving the people what they want, good and hard as HL Mencken said.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: thejuice on June 24, 2016, 06:27:32 AM
17million people wanted biscuit and 16million wanted cake.

Everyone gets biscuit.

Yay democracy!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: AQMP on June 24, 2016, 06:30:26 AM
Cameron must now decide when to trigger Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty (remember that) which then starts a minimum 2 year negotiation period. Gove was quoted during the campaign saying that he expected the UK still to be a member of the EU by the time of the next General Election - May 2020. Apparently a PM cannot resign without telling the Queen who his successor is going to be, so I'd think he'll announce that he's stepping down in the autumn or early 2017.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 24, 2016, 06:41:02 AM
I bet there are a lot of interested people in Greece. This is a kick in the nuts for the ECB and the austerity Germans. People are sick of neoliberalism. 

It is also probably the beginning of the end for the UK. We must remember at the going down of the sun the men from Ulster who died for a political setup that may no longer exist in a few years.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: imtommygunn on June 24, 2016, 06:53:58 AM
We're f**ked in ni. Can't believe this. F**ked.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: No wides on June 24, 2016, 06:58:57 AM
No one knows we are fucked - a new beginning - Holland will follow - the EU has nothing to blame but itself, a corrupt unaccountable super state, bring it on, the beginning of the end for the EU.  :D
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Walter Cronc on June 24, 2016, 07:00:56 AM
Guys can a border realistically go back up?? If so would it be manned by like EU officials and not brits.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: imtommygunn on June 24, 2016, 07:01:54 AM
Well our house earnings will be half soon due to this vote. A new beginning with nothing but those tory pricks in charge. It is a disaster nowides.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Farrandeelin on June 24, 2016, 07:02:13 AM
We're f**ked in ni. Can't believe this. F**ked.

Our economy will take a heavy hit too. Jesus H Christ, such news to wake up to. Cannot believe the English voters don't 'get' the economic aspect.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 24, 2016, 07:03:47 AM
We're f**ked in ni. Can't believe this. F**ked.

Yep,  the place  getting most EU funds and with a lot of EU trade and do most to loose,  gets a sectarian headcount.

Contrast with Scotland.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Tony Baloney on June 24, 2016, 07:08:43 AM
We're f**ked in ni. Can't believe this. F**ked.

Our economy will take a heavy hit too. Jesus H Christ, such news to wake up to. Cannot believe the English voters don't 'get' the economic aspect.
There are millions of them who don't care because they believe it doesn't affect them. They only care what The S*n tells them about migrants.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: imtommygunn on June 24, 2016, 07:11:55 AM
Northern england and wales the majorities. What the hell with wales.

Seeing poots's smug face makes me sick. Democracy he says. What the f**k would he know abot democracy.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: No wides on June 24, 2016, 07:14:31 AM
17million people wanted biscuit and 16million wanted cake.

Everyone gets biscuit.

Yay democracy!

That's how it works.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: thejuice on June 24, 2016, 07:17:24 AM
Loving in England I can tell you the Leave voters were not that bothered by the economics. This referendum was about other things for the leave voters. the remain side only wanted to discuss economics while leave wanted to discuss other things.

As I've said before and alluded to in my last post, across the "west" left and right have diverged so far I think democracy is looking unviable, when the differences in choice are so stark and the margins quite narrow.

I don't know what solutions there are besides getting the pen out and start redrawing the maps. Well we could also do tyranny or war.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: phpearse on June 24, 2016, 07:18:05 AM
Majority of people in NI wanted to remain in EU - 56% - 44% in favour of Remain. DUP have nothing to be smug about. DUP campaigned hard for a Leave vote for here but that did not happen. Surely Foster must now resign!!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: BennyCake on June 24, 2016, 07:18:18 AM
Yeeoooooo!!!

Oh wait, they'll probably vote again next week - too many subs used.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: maddog on June 24, 2016, 07:23:26 AM
We're f**ked in ni. Can't believe this. F**ked.

Our economy will take a heavy hit too. Jesus H Christ, such news to wake up to. Cannot believe the English voters don't 'get' the economic aspect.
There are millions of them who don't care because they believe it doesn't affect them. They only care what The S*n tells them about migrants.

Never mind up coming recession, Abdul will be stuck in Calais. Job done. Stupid b**tards.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Tony Baloney on June 24, 2016, 07:24:08 AM
We're f**ked in ni. Can't believe this. F**ked.

Our economy will take a heavy hit too. Jesus H Christ, such news to wake up to. Cannot believe the English voters don't 'get' the economic aspect.
There are millions of them who don't care because they believe it doesn't affect them. They only care what The S*n tells them about migrants.

Never mind up coming recession, Abdul will be stuck in Calais. Job done. Stupid b**tards.
Yep. Two fingers to Johnny Foreigner.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: BennyCake on June 24, 2016, 07:30:29 AM
All border areas voted remain. Scare tactics obviously worked.

Time for Enda to call a referendum now, and for Ireland to get out ta f**k!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Tony Baloney on June 24, 2016, 07:34:26 AM
www.xe.com has unsurprisingly calved.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: thewobbler on June 24, 2016, 07:34:42 AM
To be honest I'm sick to f**king death of the people on the remain side peddling the economics line.

Even the most eminent and educated economists of our time are wrong more often than they're right. Macroeconomics has a mind of its own. Predicting economic disaster now is no more or less insane than if the vote had have been remain.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: general_lee on June 24, 2016, 07:35:24 AM
Well at least we have a new hospital to look forward to every week
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 24, 2016, 07:36:03 AM
All border areas voted remain. Scare tactics obviously worked.

Time for Enda to call a referendum now, and for Ireland to get out ta f**k!

Just because the guy beside you jumps over a cliff, doesn't mean you should.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: BennyCake on June 24, 2016, 07:38:30 AM
All border areas voted remain. Scare tactics obviously worked.

Time for Enda to call a referendum now, and for Ireland to get out ta f**k!

Just because the guy beside you jumps over a cliff, doesn't mean you should.

This is just the start of it. Europe's f*cked.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: general_lee on June 24, 2016, 07:39:11 AM
To be honest I'm sick to f**king death of the people on the remain side peddling the economics line.
I take it you are a lot more trusting of our tory overlords than the average Nationalist.. (although to be fair you do seem to be a Unionist?)

If you think Boris and his chums are going to replace EU subsidies that places like NI benefited from then fair play to you. I and many others don't and you don't exactly need to be an Economist to see what the tories have done in days gone by.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: No wides on June 24, 2016, 07:41:09 AM
All border areas voted remain. Scare tactics obviously worked.

Time for Enda to call a referendum now, and for Ireland to get out ta f**k!

Just because the guy beside you jumps over a cliff, doesn't mean you should.

This is just the start of it. Europe's fucked.

All their own making, France and Holland will follow with referendums.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Aaron Boone on June 24, 2016, 07:41:49 AM
Can I still get La Liga on Sky Sports?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: imtommygunn on June 24, 2016, 07:44:00 AM
All border areas voted remain. Scare tactics obviously worked.

Time for Enda to call a referendum now, and for Ireland to get out ta f**k!

Just because the guy beside you jumps over a cliff, doesn't mean you should.

This is just the start of it. Europe's fucked.

All their own making, France and Holland will follow with referendums.

Maybe those countries might offer a better alternative though.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Never beat the deeler on June 24, 2016, 07:44:14 AM
Can I still get La Liga on Sky Sports?

Only until the Spanish vote next week
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: thejuice on June 24, 2016, 07:50:20 AM
Cameron went to Brussels to negotiate better terms and was given nothing by the Eurocrats. I can't say I'm feeling too sad for the Europhiles either right now. I guess I Will just have to ride the storm for now. Though my job could well be in trouble if investors in the housing market decide to go elsewhere.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: thewobbler on June 24, 2016, 07:52:45 AM
To be honest I'm sick to f**king death of the people on the remain side peddling the economics line.
I take it you are a lot more trusting of our tory overlords than the average Nationalist.. (although to be fair you do seem to be a Unionist?)

If you think Boris and his chums are going to replace EU subsidies that places like NI benefited from then fair play to you. I and many others don't and you don't exactly need to be an Economist to see what the tories have done in days gone by.

I don't believe it's as simplistic as you're describing (which basically  boils down to "Germans are good, Tories are bad"). Economics are much more complex and erratic than the role of the current government.

I'm ambivalent about the result. Emotionally I'd prefer the legal kinship with ROI, but politically I'd be in favour of streamlined administration, which means removing layers of government. I can't win in either scenario.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Muck Savage on June 24, 2016, 07:59:23 AM
All border areas voted remain. Scare tactics obviously worked.

Time for Enda to call a referendum now, and for Ireland to get out ta f**k!

Just because the guy beside you jumps over a cliff, doesn't mean you should.

This is just the start of it. Europe's fucked.

All their own making, France and Holland will follow with referendums.

I think it will be more difficult to bail out of the EURO as oppose to the EU. That would really f*ck up say someone like Ireland with the amount of debt.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Syferus on June 24, 2016, 07:59:51 AM
Some people just want to destroy the world.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: No wides on June 24, 2016, 08:05:29 AM
Some people just want to destroy the world.

And some people want to rule it.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: The Down Way on June 24, 2016, 08:09:30 AM
Surprised and delighted by the result, hopefully we will see other countries, especially the Republic, following suit.
Now we need the Scots to reignite their campaign for independence, the UK is finished.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: general_lee on June 24, 2016, 08:15:29 AM
To be honest I'm sick to f**king death of the people on the remain side peddling the economics line.
I take it you are a lot more trusting of our tory overlords than the average Nationalist.. (although to be fair you do seem to be a Unionist?)

If you think Boris and his chums are going to replace EU subsidies that places like NI benefited from then fair play to you. I and many others don't and you don't exactly need to be an Economist to see what the tories have done in days gone by.

I don't believe it's as simplistic as you're describing (which basically  boils down to "Germans are good, Tories are bad"). Economics are much more complex and erratic than the role of the current government.

I'm ambivalent about the result. Emotionally I'd prefer the legal kinship with ROI, but politically I'd be in favour of streamlined administration, which means removing layers of government. I can't win in either scenario.
Better the devil you know than the devil you don't. I can understand why someone in middle England might have voted Leave. But for people in NI this could be potentially disastrous and could have a disproportionate effect on us. Economics aside, we will no longer have European courts which is sad to think that the British judiciary is now the highest legal authority for us which is something I'm personally not comfortable with.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Kidder81 on June 24, 2016, 08:16:12 AM
Cameron to resign
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: general_lee on June 24, 2016, 08:16:50 AM
Surprised and delighted by the result, hopefully we will see other countries, especially the Republic, following suit.
Now we need the Scots to reignite their campaign for independence, the UK is finished.
The Scots being fervently pro-EU  :o
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: theskull1 on June 24, 2016, 08:17:21 AM
A lot of people running around yelling that the sky IS falling.

I'm wondering how they know for sure? As shocked as everyone but are calm heads not needed here?

Bloated bureaucracy and immigration I'd say made were the prime reasons for those who voted leave

I get the inefficient unaccountable bureaucracy argument. Us it possible we're being very smug on the other argument because our town's and city's demographics haven't been impacted to the same degree as areas north of London? I dunno
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: general_lee on June 24, 2016, 08:20:28 AM
Sterling dropped 8.4% overnight when 1% is usually considered substantial.
A lot of people running around yelling that the sky IS falling.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: thejuice on June 24, 2016, 08:23:13 AM
Cameron about to quit
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: laoislad on June 24, 2016, 08:23:19 AM
Sterling dropped 8.4% overnight when 1% is usually considered substantial.
A lot of people running around yelling that the sky IS falling.
I guess we'll be doing the Christmas shopping up North this year!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: AZOffaly on June 24, 2016, 08:26:44 AM
The Republic is the only English speaking member of the EU now. I wonder will that have any bearing on US investment?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Hound on June 24, 2016, 08:30:53 AM
Cameron went to Brussels to negotiate better terms and was given nothing by the Eurocrats. I can't say I'm feeling too sad for the Europhiles either right now. I guess I Will just have to ride the storm for now. Though my job could well be in trouble if investors in the housing market decide to go elsewhere.
That's interesting you have that view, so presumably it was widespread.
It certainly completely untrue to say he got nothing. I personally thought he came back with a great deal, I was surprised how much concessions he got from the "Eurocrats".
But all ignored in the campaign anyway.

The reasons people have given for voting Out are wide and varied. I'm particularly perplexed by the working class vote, thinking they'll be better off outside the EU. Nobody thinking of all the positive (employee perspective) employment law changes that were brought in by the EU. If UK had never joined the EU, I'd imagine their emplyoment laws would be a lot closer to the US "fire at will" labour laws.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: theskull1 on June 24, 2016, 08:31:08 AM
Sterling dropped 8.4% overnight when 1% is usually considered substantial.
A lot of people running around yelling that the sky IS falling.

Yes
Trying to work out how much folk prophesying their own doom is actually bringing it about.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: general_lee on June 24, 2016, 08:35:17 AM
Sterling dropped 8.4% overnight when 1% is usually considered substantial.
A lot of people running around yelling that the sky IS falling.

Yes
Trying to work out how much folk prophesying their own doom is actually bringing it about.
Well the top 100 companies in the UK have gone down in value by £180bn and it's not yet 9am. If anything it was the Leave campaign that was prophesying the doom!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Hound on June 24, 2016, 08:37:16 AM
The Republic is the only English speaking member of the EU now. I wonder will that have any bearing on US investment?
It will.
No question we'll get a boost in the short term. Too much uncertainty re the UK for the coming year. For any MNC moving, suddenly Ireland has moved well ahead of UK.

But medium term, the UK will have less shackels, so can provide more incentives. Ireland's incentives have to follow the strict, non state aid, EU rules. Having said that, as a member of the OECD, the UK won't have complete free reign and there are still certain parameters they have to fall between. Switzerland is far from uncompetitive being outside the EU - there'll just be certain advantages and certain disadvantages.

Financial centre will be interesting. Plenty of potential gains for IFSC type activities that we could gain from London.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Tony Baloney on June 24, 2016, 08:39:17 AM
A lot of people running around yelling that the sky IS falling.

I'm wondering how they know for sure? As shocked as everyone but are calm heads not needed here?

Bloated bureaucracy and immigration I'd say made were the prime reasons for those who voted leave

I get the inefficient unaccountable bureaucracy argument. Us it possible we're being very smug on the other argument because our town's and city's demographics haven't been impacted to the same degree as areas north of London? I dunno
Inefficient unaccountable bureaucracy is on our own doorstep not just in Brussels.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: AZOffaly on June 24, 2016, 08:41:15 AM
It may be that the UK has done us all a favour today. If this is turned into a positive, i.e. the EU has to start to engage more with the man on the street, and relax some of the Frankfurt's way stuff. Otherwise they now know that contrary to what most people believe, countries can, and will, vote to leave the club. Adapt, or die.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Walter Cronc on June 24, 2016, 08:49:53 AM
Lads. A border? Yes or no? If so what'll it involve? Soldiers or 'officials'
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: lfdown2 on June 24, 2016, 08:56:04 AM
Surely this is disastrous for us in the north - we have 18 mp's who are split, even if we were to club together for the best of the north we would not have enough mp's to have any influence in westminister!

So no roads, hospitals, schools for the foreseeable future?

Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: doodaa on June 24, 2016, 09:01:41 AM
Lads. A border? Yes or no? If so what'll it involve? Soldiers or 'officials'

Possibly a border around the whole of Ireland.
The infrastructure is there in Airports & Ports for Passport control, on the roads around the north it is not.
So anyone going into/ out of England, Scotland and Wales will require a passport.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Muck Savage on June 24, 2016, 09:03:48 AM
Now's the time for the Enda to go and look for a cut in some of the debt or interest rates from Brussels (Germans). Time to play poker and threaten to get out if no reduction. Might just get it!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Hound on June 24, 2016, 09:04:23 AM
Lads. A border? Yes or no? If so what'll it involve? Soldiers or 'officials'
I think there'll be willingness on both sides to leave the border as is.
Common Travel Agreement will remain. So long as Ireland doesn't join Schengen, which we won't.

My guess is there'll be a bit more security at ferry terminals on both sides, to bring it in line with the airlines.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: doodaa on June 24, 2016, 09:12:10 AM
Lads. A border? Yes or no? If so what'll it involve? Soldiers or 'officials'
I think there'll be willingness on both sides to leave the border as is.
Common Travel Agreement will remain. So long as Ireland doesn't join Schengen, which we won't.

My guess is there'll be a bit more security at ferry terminals on both sides, to bring it in line with the airlines.

I wouldn't be so sure on that, a "hard" border between north and south would suit the DUP and their supporters down to the ground.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: themac_23 on June 24, 2016, 09:16:57 AM
Lads. A border? Yes or no? If so what'll it involve? Soldiers or 'officials'
I think there'll be willingness on both sides to leave the border as is.
Common Travel Agreement will remain. So long as Ireland doesn't join Schengen, which we won't.

My guess is there'll be a bit more security at ferry terminals on both sides, to bring it in line with the airlines.

I wouldn't be so sure on that, a "hard" border between north and south would suit the DUP and their supporters down to the ground.

So if i was polish for example i could fly to Dublin then hop on a bus to belfast no bother or border control? would kind of defeat the purpose. i would say a border is inevidable
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: OgraAnDun on June 24, 2016, 09:17:39 AM
Well there we have it. It appears most on this board (including myself) underestimated the extent of the sheer stupidity of the English public.

With the exception of North Down, every unionist area in the north voted to leave. The irony is that with Scotland voting to remain, they've managed to destroy the union they claim to represent. Hopefully we follow the same path as the Scots.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: lfdown2 on June 24, 2016, 09:17:57 AM
Speaking after the result was announced, Edwin Poots, DUP, said he was "absolutely delighted".
"I believe that we will recover very quickly after the initial shock. The farming community has been in the doldrums... I would expect this will help them. I would expect it will help our manufacturers and our exporters at this time."

Am I deluded in thinking that our goods are of too high a standard now (EU Standard) to be competitive for both exporting outside of the EU and that we will be able to import cheaper products of a lesser quality, leaving industry - whether it be agriculture or manufacturing - on its knees?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: johnneycool on June 24, 2016, 09:18:06 AM
Lads. A border? Yes or no? If so what'll it involve? Soldiers or 'officials'

I'd laugh my balls off if the UK government decided that the only practical way to maintain a border would be at Stranraer, Cairnryan, Liverpool, Holyhead and the airports, that'd please Jim Allister!

As for the NHS, with this extra £350M per day, it'll be something else altogether   :o
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: No wides on June 24, 2016, 09:19:30 AM
Sterling dropped 8.4% overnight when 1% is usually considered substantial.
A lot of people running around yelling that the sky IS falling.

Yes
Trying to work out how much folk prophesying their own doom is actually bringing it about.
Well the top 100 companies in the UK have gone down in value by £180bn and it's not yet 9am. If anything it was the Leave campaign that was prophesying the doom!

Recovered from 8% down on the FTSE now 4% down, Japan, Europe and US stock markets all worse off today - these things will stabilize.  Don't panic!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Shamrock Shore on June 24, 2016, 09:19:53 AM
Quote
So if i was polish for example i could fly to Dublin then hop on a bus to belfast no bother or border control? would kind of defeat the purpose. i would say a border is inevidable

True - but Slawomir won't get a UK NI number so he won't be able to work officially.

Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Applesisapples on June 24, 2016, 09:24:32 AM
Lads. A border? Yes or no? If so what'll it involve? Soldiers or 'officials'

I'd laugh my balls off if the UK government decided that the only practical way to maintain a border would be at Stranraer, Cairnryan, Liverpool, Holyhead and the airports, that'd please Jim Allister!

As for the NHS, with this extra £350M per day, it'll be something else altogether   :o
This is exactly where they will maintain the border because it is the easiest way to secure the "mainland".
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Canalman on June 24, 2016, 09:25:40 AM
Wow, got that terribly wrong.

Goosebumps listening to Cameron's resignation on the radio into work. Fair play to the English, there is no pussyfooting around after a political failure.

Think we in Ireland will have to have a referendum to endorse any separate secession treaty with the UK . Will give us a strong bargaining power but we need a strong leader.

Just wondering, is this the time a move will be made on EK.

GE later in the year.

Everything above probably wrong anyway as with my previous posts on this thread.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Applesisapples on June 24, 2016, 09:29:28 AM
Turkey's really love Christmas, well English turkey's anyway.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: blewuporstuffed on June 24, 2016, 09:31:12 AM
Lads. A border? Yes or no? If so what'll it involve? Soldiers or 'officials'

I'd laugh my balls off if the UK government decided that the only practical way to maintain a border would be at Stranraer, Cairnryan, Liverpool, Holyhead and the airports, that'd please Jim Allister!

As for the NHS, with this extra £350M per day, it'll be something else altogether   :o

Farage is already distancing himself from that this morning on Breakfast with Suzanna Reid interviewing him.
It was pure propaganda those figures and amazing they were allowed to run with them
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: muppet on June 24, 2016, 09:31:45 AM
The little boy in me gets excited by chaos and volatility. The rest of me tries to look for order.

The rest of me can wait today.

All Empires comes to an end, but this must be the first in history to vote for its own ending!

Borders, excise duties, trade agreements, will all probably become leverage in the exit negotiations and depending on who gets power in London, those talks could be very tough. Both sides might agree a quick solution for the 6 counties, as neither side will want to pay for it. But beyond that, expect threats of massive taxes on UK food exports etc., as part of the EU strategy to set an example to 'leavers'.

I agree with those who think this might be good for Ireland in the long run. We will be a 'friend' to Britain, the nearest large economy, still remain within the EU and be the only English speaking nation based in the EU for US companies. Once it settles down of course.

But in the meantime I will let the little boy in me enjoy the chaos.

Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: yellowcard on June 24, 2016, 09:39:57 AM
Economically I think it is a bleak day in the short term for ROI but particularly the north which will become extremely marginalised with a likely right wing government.

Constitutionally I think it is a good day though as I think it brings the national unity debate closer, maybe not today but its moved closer imo. 
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: illdecide on June 24, 2016, 09:41:29 AM
I think the big thing to worry about is future jobs especially here in the North, we usually get shafted first when there are cuts. For me a vast majority of this was done for racist motives, people couldn't bare other Nationalities moving in beside them and getting jobs. As the DUP stated "This will put an end to emigration"

Might need to think of a nice we border town to move too (on the other side ;)). You want to hear the Protestants in work here this morning talking about going to Dublin to get an Irish Passport...lol
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: imtommygunn on June 24, 2016, 09:41:44 AM
Sf are already talking about it.

It's a result which may possibly suit them and definitely suits the snp.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: OgraAnDun on June 24, 2016, 09:44:22 AM
The little boy in me gets excited by chaos and volatility. The rest of me tries to look for order.

The rest of me can wait today.

All Empires comes to an end, but this must be the first in history to vote for its own ending!

Borders, excise duties, trade agreements, will all probably become leverage in the exit negotiations and depending on who gets power in London, those talks could be very tough. Both sides might agree a quick solution for the 6 counties, as neither side will want to pay for it. But beyond that, expect threats of massive taxes on UK food exports etc., as part of the EU strategy to set an example to 'leavers'.

I agree with those who think this might be good for Ireland in the long run. We will be a 'friend' to Britain, the nearest large economy, still remain within the EU and be the only English speaking nation based in the EU for US companies. Once it settles down of course.

But in the meantime I will let the little boy in me enjoy the chaos.

I'll have to back you in everything you say here, it is pretty funny to see how the Little Englanders have managed to create havoc. Hopefully a lot of MNCs are now looking at the next flights to Dublin.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: smort on June 24, 2016, 09:47:58 AM
I think the big thing to worry about is future jobs especially here in the North, we usually get shafted first when there are cuts. For me a vast majority of this was done for racist motives, people couldn't bare other Nationalities moving in beside them and getting jobs. As the DUP stated "This will put an end to emigration"

Might need to think of a nice we border town to move too (on the other side ;)). You want to hear the Protestants in work here this morning talking about going to Dublin to get an Irish Passport...lol

Colleague beside me in work says they decided not to vote as their 'leave' vote was based on immigration issues and they realised that was wrong.

A lot of Protestant colleagues have said the same about getting an Irish passport
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Hound on June 24, 2016, 09:49:06 AM
Lads. A border? Yes or no? If so what'll it involve? Soldiers or 'officials'
I think there'll be willingness on both sides to leave the border as is.
Common Travel Agreement will remain. So long as Ireland doesn't join Schengen, which we won't.

My guess is there'll be a bit more security at ferry terminals on both sides, to bring it in line with the airlines.

I wouldn't be so sure on that, a "hard" border between north and south would suit the DUP and their supporters down to the ground.

So if i was polish for example i could fly to Dublin then hop on a bus to belfast no bother or border control? would kind of defeat the purpose. i would say a border is inevidable
If you're Polish, you'll have no problem going directly to Belfast, just like a Swiss or a Norwegian or Icelander can do now. It'll just be harder to work and live in Belfast.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: NAG1 on June 24, 2016, 09:50:29 AM
Sf are already talking about it.

It's a result which may possibly suit them and definitely suits the snp.

Is this the reason why SF were conspicuous by the absence from the campaign trail? Not to their usual level of campaigning IMO?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: yellowcard on June 24, 2016, 10:00:08 AM
Passport Office in Dublin will be under pressure in the next few months, unionists flat out looking to take advantage of the loophole.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Dinny Breen on June 24, 2016, 10:01:49 AM
So the last time the UK chose a policy of splendid isolation with a conservative government in charge, remind me how that worked out again!!!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Applesisapples on June 24, 2016, 10:06:33 AM
SF can posture all they like on a border poll, and the is all it is posturing. The fact seems to be at the moment a sizeable section of the formerly nationalist community have accepted the union, the fleg and gongs from the Queen. This has been reinforced by SF rolling over at every turn to DUP demands.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: muppet on June 24, 2016, 10:06:55 AM
So the last time the UK chose a policy of splendid isolation with a conservative government in charge, remind me how that worked out again!!!

 ;D ;D

Don't mention the.......
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: NAG1 on June 24, 2016, 10:08:29 AM
SF can posture all they like on a border poll, and the is all it is posturing. The fact seems to be at the moment a sizeable section of the formerly nationalist community have accepted the union, the fleg and gongs from the Queen. This has been reinforced by SF rolling over at every turn to DUP demands.

Yeah funny the most recent one seems to have gone with very little comment on it.

I suppose when he worked for Liz be bad manners to turn it down  :o
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: ludermor on June 24, 2016, 10:09:07 AM
Have to say im not surprised the leave side have carried through, i said on this thread about a month ago the majority i met day to day were voting leave and yesterday was like a bank holiday with people trying to get of London to vote in their home constituencies all over England .  The remain side were way too complacent and Labour have a lot to answer for hiding Corbyn away and not putting some of their other leaders on the front line until it was way too late.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: imtommygunn on June 24, 2016, 10:16:23 AM
Sf are already talking about it.

It's a result which may possibly suit them and definitely suits the snp.

Is this the reason why SF were conspicuous by the absence from the campaign trail? Not to their usual level of campaigning IMO?

Most likely i think.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 24, 2016, 10:17:29 AM
The Republic is the only English speaking member of the EU now. I wonder will that have any bearing on US investment?

Christ the Dutch speak better English ffs!!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: AZOffaly on June 24, 2016, 10:20:57 AM
Yeah, but they don't have a  12.5% corporation tax. Multi nationals who deal in the EU will have to look at leaving the UK now. They may not leave, but they'll have to look at it. If they do, Ireland would be a very logical landing spot.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: general_lee on June 24, 2016, 10:38:49 AM
Sterling dropped 8.4% overnight when 1% is usually considered substantial.
A lot of people running around yelling that the sky IS falling.

Yes
Trying to work out how much folk prophesying their own doom is actually bringing it about.
Well the top 100 companies in the UK have gone down in value by £180bn and it's not yet 9am. If anything it was the Leave campaign that was prophesying the doom!

Recovered from 8% down on the FTSE now 4% down, Japan, Europe and US stock markets all worse off today - these things will stabilize.  Don't panic!
Is that you Nigel!?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: mick999 on June 24, 2016, 10:40:09 AM

+100% spike in UK searches for "getting an Irish passport" after #Brexit vote

https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=irish%20passport&geo=GB&date=now%207-d&cmpt=q&tz=Etc%2FGMT%2B7

Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Declan on June 24, 2016, 10:54:51 AM
I do kinda get it though... adhering to those shady backroom deals in Brussels would be like having an unelected head of state.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Maroon Manc on June 24, 2016, 10:56:57 AM
Loving in England I can tell you the Leave voters were not that bothered by the economics. This referendum was about other things for the leave voters. the remain side only wanted to discuss economics while leave wanted to discuss other things.

As I've said before and alluded to in my last post, across the "west" left and right have diverged so far I think democracy is looking unviable, when the differences in choice are so stark and the margins quite narrow.

I don't know what solutions there are besides getting the pen out and start redrawing the maps. Well we could also do tyranny or war.

Agreed on the leave voters, would like to see what % of people with a mortgage wanted to leave; I doubt it was anywhere near 30%.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: doodaa on June 24, 2016, 10:58:38 AM

+100% spike in UK searches for "getting an Irish passport" after #Brexit vote

https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=irish%20passport&geo=GB&date=now%207-d&cmpt=q&tz=Etc%2FGMT%2B7

Mine is just out of date, must get it renewed ASAP!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Applesisapples on June 24, 2016, 11:04:08 AM
Donald Trump thinks it's a great thing so it must be intellectual powerhouse that he is.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Aaron Boone on June 24, 2016, 11:04:30 AM
Her Majesty sees off her 12th Prime Minister.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: general_lee on June 24, 2016, 11:07:40 AM
I do kinda get it though... adhering to those shady backroom deals in Brussels would be like having an unelected head of state.
As a nationalist in the north I absolutely could not give one fûck when it comes to UK sovereignty.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: MoChara on June 24, 2016, 11:12:04 AM
SF can posture all they like on a border poll, and the is all it is posturing. The fact seems to be at the moment a sizeable section of the formerly nationalist community have accepted the union, the fleg and gongs from the Queen. This has been reinforced by SF rolling over at every turn to DUP demands.

As you say a sizable amount have accepted the British union and the trimmings it comes with because they believe they are better off financially within it, I don't think they've coem round to a British Identity though, the push on a Northern Irish Identity is probably helping it head that way though.

This is a fickle and self serving part of the population though, if the financial allure isn't with Britain then they aren't either

Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Ulick on June 24, 2016, 11:13:30 AM
Sf are already talking about it.

It's a result which may possibly suit them and definitely suits the snp.

Is this the reason why SF were conspicuous by the absence from the campaign trail? Not to their usual level of campaigning IMO?

Most likely i think.

More likely they couldn't members to go out and campaign for it.  Very prominent SF supporters north and south we're very vocal for leave e.g. Eoin Ó Murchú and Jude Collins. I was for leave myself until the Jo Cox murder but I was never going to canvass for remain. 
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: imtommygunn on June 24, 2016, 11:15:45 AM
Why did the Jo Cox murder change your mind?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Rossfan on June 24, 2016, 11:15:46 AM
Presumably the Loyalist "Brigadiers" will have to raise their extortion rates to make up for the loss of the EU " Community" funding ;)
What will happen to all them big Unionist farmers when the CAP cheques stop?
Meanwhile the quicker the Scots take their courage in their hands and go Independent the better.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Ulick on June 24, 2016, 11:18:18 AM
SF can posture all they like on a border poll, and the is all it is posturing. The fact seems to be at the moment a sizeable section of the formerly nationalist community have accepted the union, the fleg and gongs from the Queen. This has been reinforced by SF rolling over at every turn to DUP demands.

As you say a sizable amount have accepted the British union and the trimmings it comes with because they believe they are better off financially within it, I don't think they've coem round to a British Identity though, the push on a Northern Irish Identity is probably helping it head that way though.

This is a fickle and self serving part of the population though, if the financial allure isn't with Britain then they aren't either

Between 1932 and 1972 a much greater part of the "nationalist community" had accepted the Union or at least unionist rule. That many are now also content with their lot is irrelevant. Swings and roundabouts, you always get another chance, just a matter of keeping the faith and being ready to capitalise on changed circumstances. SF should milk this for all it worth, you can be sure the SNP are going to do the same in Scotland and fair fcks to them. 
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Ulick on June 24, 2016, 11:19:41 AM
Why did the Jo Cox murder change your mind?

Because I couldn't vote on the same side as the people that inspired her murderer. For me that's akin to voting for Paisley in his heyday.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: LeoMc on June 24, 2016, 11:20:15 AM
Have to say im not surprised the leave side have carried through, i said on this thread about a month ago the majority i met day to day were voting leave and yesterday was like a bank holiday with people trying to get of London to vote in their home constituencies all over England .  The remain side were way too complacent and Labour have a lot to answer for hiding Corbyn away and not putting some of their other leaders on the front line until it was way too late.
He was the first man on calling for Article 50 to be invoked immediately even when the Leave campaign were saying Now, now, lets not be hasty.
He wasn't put forward as he is anti-Europe.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: johnneycool on June 24, 2016, 11:24:59 AM
Presumably the Loyalist "Brigadiers" will have to raise their extortion rates to make up for the loss of the EU " Community" funding ;)
What will happen to all them big Unionist farmers when the CAP cheques stop?
Meanwhile the quicker the Scots take their courage in their hands and go Independent the better.

Alex Salmond was already hinting that England voted to leave Europe, Scotland didn't and he's expecting another referendum there in the coming years.

If the Tory's screw Scotland any harder with their austerity then a break up of the union is inevitable and Norn Iron will be collateral damage to the Scotland/England split.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: MoChara on June 24, 2016, 11:29:08 AM
SF can posture all they like on a border poll, and the is all it is posturing. The fact seems to be at the moment a sizeable section of the formerly nationalist community have accepted the union, the fleg and gongs from the Queen. This has been reinforced by SF rolling over at every turn to DUP demands.

As you say a sizable amount have accepted the British union and the trimmings it comes with because they believe they are better off financially within it, I don't think they've coem round to a British Identity though, the push on a Northern Irish Identity is probably helping it head that way though.

This is a fickle and self serving part of the population though, if the financial allure isn't with Britain then they aren't either

Between 1932 and 1972 a much greater part of the "nationalist community" had accepted the Union or at least unionist rule. That many are now also content with their lot is irrelevant. Swings and roundabouts, you always get another chance, just a matter of keeping the faith and being ready to capitalise on changed circumstances. SF should milk this for all it worth, you can be sure the SNP are going to do the same in Scotland and fair fcks to them.

The change this time might be that it will engage some of the more liberal in the Unionist Community to consider life in a United Ireland, especially when Boris and the boys run roughshod over the NHS or anything else publically owned or paid. To steal the ra quote about thatcher, Republicanism only need to win one referendum but unionism has to win them all.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: The Trap on June 24, 2016, 11:30:34 AM
Some difference between how Nicola Sturgeon has reacted to the remain vote in Scotland and how Arlene Foster reacted to the remain vote in NI!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: smort on June 24, 2016, 11:42:34 AM
Some difference between how Nicola Sturgeon has reacted to the remain vote in Scotland and how Arlene Foster reacted to the remain vote in NI!

They do have completely different agendas
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: No wides on June 24, 2016, 11:44:56 AM
Feels like handing your notice in and then regretting it.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Applesisapples on June 24, 2016, 11:48:59 AM
SF can posture all they like on a border poll, and the is all it is posturing. The fact seems to be at the moment a sizeable section of the formerly nationalist community have accepted the union, the fleg and gongs from the Queen. This has been reinforced by SF rolling over at every turn to DUP demands.

As you say a sizable amount have accepted the British union and the trimmings it comes with because they believe they are better off financially within it, I don't think they've coem round to a British Identity though, the push on a Northern Irish Identity is probably helping it head that way though.

This is a fickle and self serving part of the population though, if the financial allure isn't with Britain then they aren't either

Between 1932 and 1972 a much greater part of the "nationalist community" had accepted the Union or at least unionist rule. That many are now also content with their lot is irrelevant. Swings and roundabouts, you always get another chance, just a matter of keeping the faith and being ready to capitalise on changed circumstances. SF should milk this for all it worth, you can be sure the SNP are going to do the same in Scotland and fair fcks to them.
SF couldn't milk a cow let alone a situation.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: haveaharp on June 24, 2016, 11:49:57 AM
Presumably the Loyalist "Brigadiers" will have to raise their extortion rates to make up for the loss of the EU " Community" funding ;)
What will happen to all them big Unionist farmers when the CAP cheques stop?
Meanwhile the quicker the Scots take their courage in their hands and go Independent the better.

Alex Salmond was already hinting that England voted to leave Europe, Scotland didn't and he's expecting another referendum there in the coming years.

If the Tory's screw Scotland any harder with their austerity then a break up of the union is inevitable and Norn Iron will be collateral damage to the Scotland/England split.

Would there be any mileage in thinking its Englands chance to ditch their demented expensive cousins and they will take it ?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Ulick on June 24, 2016, 11:59:27 AM

SF couldn't milk a cow let alone a situation.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Kidder81 on June 24, 2016, 12:54:30 PM
Have to say im not surprised the leave side have carried through, i said on this thread about a month ago the majority i met day to day were voting leave and yesterday was like a bank holiday with people trying to get of London to vote in their home constituencies all over England .  The remain side were way too complacent and Labour have a lot to answer for hiding Corbyn away and not putting some of their other leaders on the front line until it was way too late.

Corbyn gets hid away for a reason
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: LeoMc on June 24, 2016, 12:58:44 PM
Presumably the Loyalist "Brigadiers" will have to raise their extortion rates to make up for the loss of the EU " Community" funding ;)
What will happen to all them big Unionist farmers when the CAP cheques stop?
Meanwhile the quicker the Scots take their courage in their hands and go Independent the better.

Alex Salmond was already hinting that England voted to leave Europe, Scotland didn't and he's expecting another referendum there in the coming years.

If the Tory's screw Scotland any harder with their austerity then a break up of the union is inevitable and Norn Iron will be collateral damage to the Scotland/England split.

Would there be any mileage in thinking its Englands chance to ditch their demented expensive cousins and they will take it ?
We could well be next on the blame list once they realise immigrants aren't to blame for the state of the Country.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: screenexile on June 24, 2016, 01:05:38 PM
Looks like Corbyn will be gone soon as well!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: NAG1 on June 24, 2016, 01:07:51 PM
Looks like Corbyn will be gone soon as well!

He needs to go, he is totally unelectable and as much as Labour occupy the same sort of middle ground as the Tories they are on the only alternative to Boris and his Eaton Style cronies.

It was a knee jerk reaction to appoint Corbyn as leader and one that has completely failed.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: mouview on June 24, 2016, 01:12:57 PM
Ballot goes to show once again that voter eligibility should be means-tested, (here also). People on long-term dole or social welfare, too lazy or incompetent to fend for themselves, should have no say in anything. Too easily led and swayed by populist agendas.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: yellowcard on June 24, 2016, 01:15:22 PM
Ballot goes to show once again that voter eligibility should be means-tested, (here also). People on long-term dole or social welfare, too lazy or incompetent to fend for themselves, should have no say in anything. Too easily led and swayed by populist agendas.

You cannot be serious.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: No wides on June 24, 2016, 01:22:47 PM
Ballot goes to show once again that voter eligibility should be means-tested, (here also). People on long-term dole or social welfare, too lazy or incompetent to fend for themselves, should have no say in anything. Too easily led and swayed by populist agendas.

Maybe we should have a dictator!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: The Bearded One on June 24, 2016, 01:23:40 PM
Ballot goes to show once again that voter eligibility should be means-tested, (here also). People on long-term dole or social welfare, too lazy or incompetent to fend for themselves, should have no say in anything. Too easily led and swayed by populist agendas.

Hah I nearly spat my prawn sandwich across the desk there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: sensethetone on June 24, 2016, 01:26:47 PM
Have a DUP man in front of me at work and he is lording it.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: NAG1 on June 24, 2016, 01:27:09 PM
Ballot goes to show once again that voter eligibility should be means-tested, (here also). People on long-term dole or social welfare, too lazy or incompetent to fend for themselves, should have no say in anything. Too easily led and swayed by populist agendas.

Hah I nearly spat my prawn sandwich across the desk there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 ;D

To be fair in Trump's round 1st round of fund raising for his campaign this week a disproportionately high number of people making donation are on social welfare.

Not a UK problem alone.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: J70 on June 24, 2016, 01:29:29 PM
Will Brexit have any effect on the soccer? Work permits, Bosmans etc?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: NAG1 on June 24, 2016, 01:30:12 PM
Have a DUP man in front of me at work and he is lording it.

Do us a favour and ask him how he feels that this has strengthened the 'Union' when the outcome will more than likely be a second Scottish ref with a different outcome this time?

I just cant seem to get my head around that part, maybe the DUPers are more clever than the rest of us or do they not care whether their Scottish cousins are in the UK with them?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: mouview on June 24, 2016, 01:33:15 PM
Ballot goes to show once again that voter eligibility should be means-tested, (here also). People on long-term dole or social welfare, too lazy or incompetent to fend for themselves, should have no say in anything. Too easily led and swayed by populist agendas.

You cannot be serious.

Totally am.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: blewuporstuffed on June 24, 2016, 01:38:18 PM
Have a DUP man in front of me at work and he is lording it.

Do us a favour and ask him how he feels that this has strengthened the 'Union' when the outcome will more than likely be a second Scottish ref with a different outcome this time?

I just cant seem to get my head around that part, maybe the DUPers are more clever than the rest of us or do they not care whether their Scottish cousins are in the UK with them?

It amazes me how smug the DUP are about all this, when the majority of people in N.ireland voted against their stance  ???
Deluded isn't the word for them
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Dinny Breen on June 24, 2016, 01:39:05 PM
Ballot goes to show once again that voter eligibility should be means-tested, (here also). People on long-term dole or social welfare, too lazy or incompetent to fend for themselves, should have no say in anything. Too easily led and swayed by populist agendas.

You cannot be serious.

Totally am.

Starship Troopers, only citizens have votes...
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 24, 2016, 01:39:20 PM
Nevermind the ones on the dole!! How she gets to vote is beyond me

https://video.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t42.1790-2/12979741_838892572889693_2020326302_n.mp4?efg=eyJ2ZW5jb2RlX3RhZyI6InN2ZV9zZCJ9&oh=74756bc772dc9c20ecb6ab04b6cd7389&oe=576D6590
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Up The Middle on June 24, 2016, 01:53:14 PM
Nevermind the ones on the dole!! How she gets to vote is beyond me

https://video.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t42.1790-2/12979741_838892572889693_2020326302_n.mp4?efg=eyJ2ZW5jb2RlX3RhZyI6InN2ZV9zZCJ9&oh=74756bc772dc9c20ecb6ab04b6cd7389&oe=576D6590

 :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ Good god I had to turn it off. Who owns her?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: general_lee on June 24, 2016, 01:59:10 PM
Nevermind the ones on the dole!! How she gets to vote is beyond me

https://video.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t42.1790-2/12979741_838892572889693_2020326302_n.mp4?efg=eyJ2ZW5jb2RlX3RhZyI6InN2ZV9zZCJ9&oh=74756bc772dc9c20ecb6ab04b6cd7389&oe=576D6590

 :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ Good god I had to turn it off. Who owns her?
TUV's finest. A repulsive and sectarian individual
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: imtommygunn on June 24, 2016, 02:00:09 PM
Presumably the Loyalist "Brigadiers" will have to raise their extortion rates to make up for the loss of the EU " Community" funding ;)
What will happen to all them big Unionist farmers when the CAP cheques stop?
Meanwhile the quicker the Scots take their courage in their hands and go Independent the better.

Alex Salmond was already hinting that England voted to leave Europe, Scotland didn't and he's expecting another referendum there in the coming years.

If the Tory's screw Scotland any harder with their austerity then a break up of the union is inevitable and Norn Iron will be collateral damage to the Scotland/England split.

Would there be any mileage in thinking its Englands chance to ditch their demented expensive cousins and they will take it ?
We could well be next on the blame list once they realise immigrants aren't to blame for the state of the Country.

I could see problems.  If they give us what the EU gave us there will be outrage.

The only plus side MIGHT be that at least the gravy train might dry up for the politicians. They have really been milking things for a long time now.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: general_lee on June 24, 2016, 02:02:58 PM
Have a DUP man in front of me at work and he is lording it.

Do us a favour and ask him how he feels that this has strengthened the 'Union' when the outcome will more than likely be a second Scottish ref with a different outcome this time?

I just cant seem to get my head around that part, maybe the DUPers are more clever than the rest of us or do they not care whether their Scottish cousins are in the UK with them?

It amazes me how smug the DUP are about all this, when the majority of people in N.ireland voted against their stance  ???
Deluded isn't the word for them
What else would you expect from those little Englanders? I honestly thought I couldn't hate them any more than I already did pre Brexit. An utter shower of b**tards every last one of them
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 24, 2016, 02:04:52 PM
Have a DUP man in front of me at work and he is lording it.

Ask him if he's applied for his Irish passport yet?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: LeoMc on June 24, 2016, 02:12:44 PM
More good news for middle-England. According to BBC Morgan Stanley starting to move 2000 jobs out of London to Dublin or Frankfurt!

Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Applesisapples on June 24, 2016, 02:21:19 PM
More good news for middle-England. According to BBC Morgan Stanley starting to move 2000 jobs out of London to Dublin or Frankfurt!
More to follow, I can't believe these people could be so stupid...then again they voted for Farage.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: NAG1 on June 24, 2016, 02:29:16 PM
More good news for middle-England. According to BBC Morgan Stanley starting to move 2000 jobs out of London to Dublin or Frankfurt!
More to follow, I can't believe these people could be so stupid...then again they voted for Farage.

Farage didnt get elected as an MP, I thought he had missed out.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: easytiger95 on June 24, 2016, 02:31:01 PM
Yeah, could someone explain to me the DUPs thinking? Surely they are going down the same route as Cameron and getting confused between tactics and strategy (tactics being strengthen the border short term, strategically though Brexit inevitably weakens the Union long term). Just don't understand what they think they are going to get from this.

Even if a border poll is staved off, Scotland is going to go and an NI with an EU border to the republic and one to Scotland is just not tenable.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 24, 2016, 02:32:16 PM
Farage didnt get elected as an MP, I thought he had missed out.

He's an MEP isn't he?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: AQMP on June 24, 2016, 02:36:43 PM
Farage didnt get elected as an MP, I thought he had missed out.

He's an MEP isn't he?

Yes he's an MEP but has failed to get elected to Westminster five times.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: imtommygunn on June 24, 2016, 02:36:50 PM
Yep. Mep.

The dup wouldn't know strategy if it bit them on the ass.

Foster is now talking about hope. How can she when their position is nothing but fear. Fear of no more union and fear of god. That's their strategy in a nutshell.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: FL/MAYO on June 24, 2016, 02:50:12 PM
Will British citizens living in the E.U be living there illegally once the Brexit is official? What will be the status of Irish citizens living in the U.K and vice versa U.K citizens living in Ireland?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Orior on June 24, 2016, 02:50:39 PM
Nevermind the ones on the dole!! How she gets to vote is beyond me

https://video.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t42.1790-2/12979741_838892572889693_2020326302_n.mp4?efg=eyJ2ZW5jb2RlX3RhZyI6InN2ZV9zZCJ9&oh=74756bc772dc9c20ecb6ab04b6cd7389&oe=576D6590

 :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ Good god I had to turn it off. Who owns her?
TUV's finest. A repulsive and sectarian individual

Is that Jeff Dudgeon in the background? Why is he not lol-ing?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Orior on June 24, 2016, 02:52:23 PM
I'm waiting for someone to say that britain will bring back the Commonwealth and will sell to it.








waiting...
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: WT4E on June 24, 2016, 02:54:42 PM
Is there anything to be said for another referendum???
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: NAG1 on June 24, 2016, 02:55:30 PM
I'm waiting for someone to say that britain will bring back the Commonwealth and will sell to it.








waiting...

If you click on MR2's link and can stand to watch it, the cretin mentioned the commonwealth countries and selling more to them  ;)

Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Longshanks on June 24, 2016, 02:56:53 PM
We were talking about europe here and one fella is of the opinion that leaving europe still won't happen and Cameron leaving (the smart move) is not what Gove or Johnson would want as if say Johnson was elected leader he cannot go to the eu with a peoples mandate as he isn't technically the peoples choice and therefore he would need to hold a general election.

As before if Cameron had went forward he would have had the peoples mandate and with him leaving it messes their plans up.


Now if a general election was held and a party go in that was pro euro (labour) and judging by the back lash and people realising how bad things could get this could happen then they could come to an agreement not to leave the euro.

fingers crossed??
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Ulick on June 24, 2016, 02:57:29 PM
Yeah, could someone explain to me the DUPs thinking? Surely they are going down the same route as Cameron and getting confused between tactics and strategy (tactics being strengthen the border short term, strategically though Brexit inevitably weakens the Union long term). Just don't understand what they think they are going to get from this.

Even if a border poll is staved off, Scotland is going to go and an NI with an EU border to the republic and one to Scotland is just not tenable.

The re-imposition of the border plays to their neanderthal wing and emphasises they are a different country. They were never comfortable with this blurring of the border carry-on. They also believe that repeal of the Human Rights Act will allow them to get away with discrimination against LGBT and foreigners, while also putting an end to the Fenian's taking their grievances to the European Courts. Personally I don't think there's a chance in hell the Brits are going to break an international treaty brokered by the US and lodged in the UN for the sake of Ulster backwoodsmen.   

Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: johnneycool on June 24, 2016, 02:59:15 PM
I'm waiting for someone to say that britain will bring back the Commonwealth and will sell to it.








waiting...

Nige Farage mentioned the commonhaven'tgotthenailstoscratchthemselveswealth this morning, I kid you not, harking back to the days of the glorious empire and Britannia ruling the waves!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Ulick on June 24, 2016, 03:00:59 PM
I'm waiting for someone to say that britain will bring back the Commonwealth and will sell to it.








waiting...

Nige Farage mentioned the commonhaven'tgotthenailstoscratchthemselveswealth this morning, I kid you not, harking back to the days of the glorious empire and Britannia ruling the waves!



Irish senator calls on Republic of Ireland to rejoin Commonwealth
'Would rejoining not help further develop a pluralist Ireland'

Published
22/06/2016

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/republic-of-ireland/irish-senator-calls-on-republic-of-ireland-to-rejoin-commonwealth-34823437.html
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Canalman on June 24, 2016, 03:02:16 PM
Will British citizens living in the E.U be living there illegally once the Brexit is official? What will be the status of Irish citizens living in the U.K and vice versa U.K citizens living in Ireland?


That is the $64,000 question.

Would be surprised if there isn't deep in the bowels of one of those treaties we voted on some rule against member states making separate deals with non member states.


All up in the air.

Know a couple of mates of mine living  in London  years  who took out a British passport in the last year or so just in case.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: FL/MAYO on June 24, 2016, 03:10:20 PM
Will British citizens living in the E.U be living there illegally once the Brexit is official? What will be the status of Irish citizens living in the U.K and vice versa U.K citizens living in Ireland?


That is the $64,000 question.

Would be surprised if there isn't deep in the bowels of one of those treaties we voted on some rule against member states making separate deals with non member states.


All up in the air.

Know a couple of mates of mine living  in London  years  who took out a British passport in the last year or so just in case.

There's 300000 U.K citizens living in Spain, they'll have to move back to the U.K. The amount of people both leaving and returning to the U.K will  be mind boggling
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Applesisapples on June 24, 2016, 03:11:56 PM
The Brits will settle for Brexit light as a fig leaf for Boris' fat arse.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Syferus on June 24, 2016, 03:12:37 PM
Will British citizens living in the E.U be living there illegally once the Brexit is official? What will be the status of Irish citizens living in the U.K and vice versa U.K citizens living in Ireland?


That is the $64,000 question.

Would be surprised if there isn't deep in the bowels of one of those treaties we voted on some rule against member states making separate deals with non member states.


All up in the air.

Know a couple of mates of mine living  in London  years  who took out a British passport in the last year or so just in case.

There's 300000 U.K citizens living in Spain, they'll have to move back to the U.K. The amount of people both leaving and returning to the U.K will  be mind boggling

Like feck they will. Agreements so they can stay and amnesties at worst will be in place long before Britain exits.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Canalman on June 24, 2016, 03:14:16 PM
Will British citizens living in the E.U be living there illegally once the Brexit is official? What will be the status of Irish citizens living in the U.K and vice versa U.K citizens living in Ireland?


That is the $64,000 question.

Would be surprised if there isn't deep in the bowels of one of those treaties we voted on some rule against member states making separate deals with non member states.


All up in the air.

Know a couple of mates of mine living  in London  years  who took out a British passport in the last year or so just in case.

There's 300000 U.K citizens living in Spain, they'll have to move back to the U.K. The amount of people both leaving and returning to the U.K will  be mind boggling

Yep, certainly a possibility. Plenty of horsetrading to do. Serious national self interest will come to the fore.

Might throw Gibraltar's future into the mix.

Really complicated now.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: No wides on June 24, 2016, 03:16:11 PM
We were talking about europe here and one fella is of the opinion that leaving europe still won't happen and Cameron leaving (the smart move) is not what Gove or Johnson would want as if say Johnson was elected leader he cannot go to the eu with a peoples mandate as he isn't technically the peoples choice and therefore he would need to hold a general election.

As before if Cameron had went forward he would have had the peoples mandate and with him leaving it messes their plans up.


Now if a general election was held and a party go in that was pro euro (labour) and judging by the back lash and people realising how bad things could get this could happen then they could come to an agreement not to leave the euro.

fingers crossed??

One hell of a call, obviously it would need done before Article 50 is activated, that said - if you are out you are out, I think others will follow.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: imtommygunn on June 24, 2016, 03:16:29 PM
Will British citizens living in the E.U be living there illegally once the Brexit is official? What will be the status of Irish citizens living in the U.K and vice versa U.K citizens living in Ireland?


That is the $64,000 question.

Would be surprised if there isn't deep in the bowels of one of those treaties we voted on some rule against member states making separate deals with non member states.


All up in the air.

Know a couple of mates of mine living  in London  years  who took out a British passport in the last year or so just in case.

There's 300000 U.K citizens living in Spain, they'll have to move back to the U.K. The amount of people both leaving and returning to the U.K will  be mind boggling

Frankie boyoe tweeted about this. Said banks in the uk should be very worried. As all the bank robbers will be returning from spain lol.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Applesisapples on June 24, 2016, 03:16:38 PM
Knives out for Corbyn now.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: No wides on June 24, 2016, 03:17:58 PM
Knives out for Corbyn now.

Near time, had he showed any sort of leadership the vote would have been different, how he became leader will always amaze me.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: imtommygunn on June 24, 2016, 03:18:08 PM
I like corbyn but not convinced he's a viable leader. They'll end up with someone who's tory-lite like khan or the like.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Applesisapples on June 24, 2016, 03:21:14 PM
I like corbyn but not convinced he's a viable leader. They'll end up with someone who's tory-lite like khan or the like.
GUBU...vote against immigrants and end up with the son of one as a pm! karma.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Declan on June 24, 2016, 03:21:44 PM
https://twitter.com/5_News/status/746333341532598279 (https://twitter.com/5_News/status/746333341532598279)

You gotta wonder sometimes
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: No wides on June 24, 2016, 03:25:11 PM
https://twitter.com/5_News/status/746333341532598279 (https://twitter.com/5_News/status/746333341532598279)

You gotta wonder sometimes

Maybe mouview is correct about vetting voters!!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: SkillfulBill on June 24, 2016, 03:29:44 PM
I like corbyn but not convinced he's a viable leader. They'll end up with someone who's tory-lite like khan or the like.

I voted remain myself like prob. 90% of nationalists. In a way the Bretix vote is good for nationalism 20 years of the GFA has made the middle class nationalists soft on a united Ireland but this DUP sponsored breakup of the UK should go along way to firming that up again. With a Scottish exit it may bring a few over from the otherside as NI is sure to suffer the most along with Gibralta. How long before the money for ni dries up and gets diverted to northern of england. When they realise that ni costs more than europe bye bye.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: imtommygunn on June 24, 2016, 03:36:45 PM
Spain are already talking about gibraltar and there is talk from snp on referendum too. I think you are right on the middle class nationalist bit too. Still the south must want us etc etc so still a pipe dream.

I think many gravy trains are about to dry up for ni. It is a false evonomy hugely bolstered by eu and you can be sure tories won't fund that.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: No wides on June 24, 2016, 03:40:13 PM
Yip if I was a civil servant in the North I would be starting to save.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: AZOffaly on June 24, 2016, 03:41:46 PM
I had an argument on Facebook with someone in Dublin who would welcome border controls. If 'they' want to stop us going into the UK, we should stop 'them' coming to the ROI. I pointed out that a lot of 'them' were actually 'us' and worked daily in Dublin, and consider themselves Irish, and not only that but are guaranteed to be Irish under our constitution. Would we really want Irish people, working in Dublin, to be inconvenienced with a border every morning.

The response was that ye are not Irish. So hard luck lads. Even though the constitution says you are part of the Irish Nation, and Citizens of the ROI, as far as she was concerned, only people born in the 26 counties are Irish.

Sometimes I hate people.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: haveaharp on June 24, 2016, 03:43:43 PM
I had an argument on Facebook with someone in Dublin who would welcome border controls. If 'they' want to stop us going into the UK, we should stop 'them' coming to the ROI. I pointed out that a lot of 'them' were actually 'us' and worked daily in Dublin, and consider themselves Irish, and not only that but are guaranteed to be Irish under our constitution. Would we really want Irish people, working in Dublin, to be inconvenienced with a border every morning.

The response was that ye are not Irish. So hard luck lads. Even though the constitution says you are part of the Irish Nation, and Citizens of the ROI, as far as she was concerned, only people born in the 26 counties are Irish.

Sometimes I hate people.

Anyone who thinks like that isnt Irish. Sad really.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: doodaa on June 24, 2016, 03:46:54 PM
I had an argument on Facebook with someone in Dublin who would welcome border controls. If 'they' want to stop us going into the UK, we should stop 'them' coming to the ROI. I pointed out that a lot of 'them' were actually 'us' and worked daily in Dublin, and consider themselves Irish, and not only that but are guaranteed to be Irish under our constitution. Would we really want Irish people, working in Dublin, to be inconvenienced with a border every morning.

The response was that ye are not Irish. So hard luck lads. Even though the constitution says you are part of the Irish Nation, and Citizens of the ROI, as far as she was concerned, only people born in the 26 counties are Irish.

Sometimes I hate people.

Probably harder to sell a United Ireland to someone like that than a TUV voter!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: heganboy on June 24, 2016, 03:50:00 PM
i freely admit that I saw no way in which this was possible, completely wrong.

Now what?

for those who are interested there is a once in a lifetime opportunity to bring about a lasting and inclusive peaceful island. The breakdown by council of the vote makes for fascinating reading. The inward investment in northern ireland stops abruptly with an EU exit. The 12.5% corp tax makes little to no impact with UK outside of the EU. The farming community will be decimated with NI outside of the EU.

Sinn Fein's knee jerk reaction for the border poll certainly brings the topic to the forefront of the news as part of a UK breakup. The real issue is whether the fledgling government in the Republic can create a mechanism to facilitate the absorption of a northern Ireland state while at the same time preserving the rights and influence of the unionist population. A concerted effort and a cross party initiative to put forward that proposal could take the prospect of a "more united Ireland" rather than the absolute of the traditional United Ireland prospect into a best possible solution for all.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Applesisapples on June 24, 2016, 03:51:14 PM
Driving to work this morning I was shocked, dismayed and saddened by the result. As the day has worn on I have cheered up a bit as the reality of the vote starts to hit the Brits. It could give nationalism a boost but I'm not sure we have the leaders to take advantage of it.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Rossfan on June 24, 2016, 04:05:45 PM
Will we end up with the North being some kind of tripartite ruled "special administrative area" -
A foot in an All Ireland set up, a foot in the "new UK" of England and Wales and of course a foot in the EU?
Nationalists will have their UI, Unionists will have their UK and the EU will continue with the grants to cover what we and the English/Welsh can't or won't pay for?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: SkillfulBill on June 24, 2016, 04:07:17 PM
Driving to work this morning I was shocked, dismayed and saddened by the result. As the day has worn on I have cheered up a bit as the reality of the vote starts to hit the Brits. It could give nationalism a boost but I'm not sure we have the leaders to take advantage of it.

May not have the leaders but economics may do it for u.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: lfdown2 on June 24, 2016, 04:15:40 PM
I had an argument on Facebook with someone in Dublin who would welcome border controls. If 'they' want to stop us going into the UK, we should stop 'them' coming to the ROI. I pointed out that a lot of 'them' were actually 'us' and worked daily in Dublin, and consider themselves Irish, and not only that but are guaranteed to be Irish under our constitution. Would we really want Irish people, working in Dublin, to be inconvenienced with a border every morning.

The response was that ye are not Irish. So hard luck lads. Even though the constitution says you are part of the Irish Nation, and Citizens of the ROI, as far as she was concerned, only people born in the 26 counties are Irish.

Sometimes I hate people.

Unfortunately there are many like her, a good many.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Applesisapples on June 24, 2016, 04:16:42 PM
I had an argument on Facebook with someone in Dublin who would welcome border controls. If 'they' want to stop us going into the UK, we should stop 'them' coming to the ROI. I pointed out that a lot of 'them' were actually 'us' and worked daily in Dublin, and consider themselves Irish, and not only that but are guaranteed to be Irish under our constitution. Would we really want Irish people, working in Dublin, to be inconvenienced with a border every morning.

The response was that ye are not Irish. So hard luck lads. Even though the constitution says you are part of the Irish Nation, and Citizens of the ROI, as far as she was concerned, only people born in the 26 counties are Irish.

Sometimes I hate people.

Unfortunately there are many like her, a good many.
Including Charlie Flannigan given hi interview there on BBC.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Lar Naparka on June 24, 2016, 04:17:52 PM
Spain are already talking about gibraltar and there is talk from snp on referendum too. I think you are right on the middle class nationalist bit too. Still the south must want us etc etc so still a pipe dream.

I think many gravy trains are about to dry up for ni. It is a false evonomy hugely bolstered by eu and you can be sure tories won't fund that.

Not if you include Fearon. Leave him north of the border and we'll see what we can do for ye. ;D
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: heganboy on June 24, 2016, 04:27:06 PM
Will we end up with the North being some kind of tripartite ruled "special administrative area" -
A foot in an All Ireland set up, a foot in the "new UK" of England and Wales and of course a foot in the EU?
Nationalists will have their UI, Unionists will have their UK and the EU will continue with the grants to cover what we and the English/Welsh can't or won't pay for?

Rossfan,
as proposals go there are merits in yours (I believe) I think that part of the all ireland "foot" would cover the EU eligibility. The Barnett model that controls the block grant allocation to NI, Scotland and Wales makes for some interesting reading. Economics may be a driver, but as this week's results show it is not the only thing. What will be interesting to see if there are legitimately viable models proposed over the next few weeks, and whether they get any political support. Enda says he has more serious issues to address first (relating to the border poll issue) so does that mean it will be addressed? The fact that this hasn't been considered as part of the Brexit contingency plan may be indicative of the short sightedness of the current political class. The economic benefit of the integration of the north into the economy of the Republic would actually be a massive boost to the island's economy, and that boost is within the grasp of this administration, question is- do they know how to grasp it?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: BennyCake on June 24, 2016, 04:50:48 PM
Ballot goes to show once again that voter eligibility should be means-tested, (here also). People on long-term dole or social welfare, too lazy or incompetent to fend for themselves, should have no say in anything. Too easily led and swayed by populist agendas.

That's like fans not being allowed to criticise their football team just because they didn't play professionally.

The working classes have spoken. They've had enough and hopefully more countries will follow.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Ulick on June 24, 2016, 04:55:57 PM
We were talking about europe here and one fella is of the opinion that leaving europe still won't happen and Cameron leaving (the smart move) is not what Gove or Johnson would want as if say Johnson was elected leader he cannot go to the eu with a peoples mandate as he isn't technically the peoples choice and therefore he would need to hold a general election.

As before if Cameron had went forward he would have had the peoples mandate and with him leaving it messes their plans up.


Now if a general election was held and a party go in that was pro euro (labour) and judging by the back lash and people realising how bad things could get this could happen then they could come to an agreement not to leave the euro.

fingers crossed??

This isn't as outlandish as you might think. The Brits don't have a written Constitution and an ineffective upper house so their Parliament effectively makes the rules up as they go along. If a majority government of the day wanted to discount the result, or more likely have a rerun there's legally nothing to prevent it.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 24, 2016, 04:57:19 PM
Ballot goes to show once again that voter eligibility should be means-tested, (here also). People on long-term dole or social welfare, too lazy or incompetent to fend for themselves, should have no say in anything. Too easily led and swayed by populist agendas.

That's like fans not being allowed to criticise their football team just because they didn't play professionally.

The working classes have spoken. They've had enough and hopefully more countries will follow.
nobody was consulted about QE or the reduction of rates to zero or the Anglo job or the failure of Osborne to get the deficit to zero.

The people have spoken, the b**tards...
And ordinary people will suffer
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: vallankumous on June 24, 2016, 05:00:36 PM
I had an argument on Facebook with someone in Dublin who would welcome border controls. If 'they' want to stop us going into the UK, we should stop 'them' coming to the ROI. I pointed out that a lot of 'them' were actually 'us' and worked daily in Dublin, and consider themselves Irish, and not only that but are guaranteed to be Irish under our constitution. Would we really want Irish people, working in Dublin, to be inconvenienced with a border every morning.

The response was that ye are not Irish. So hard luck lads. Even though the constitution says you are part of the Irish Nation, and Citizens of the ROI, as far as she was concerned, only people born in the 26 counties are Irish.

Sometimes I hate people.

I may be wrong but does the constitution really say the north is Irish? I thought it was dropped in article 3 to allow for the GFA. And the dual citizenship is protected in the GFA not the constitution.

Either way anyone who refers to a piece of paper (passport) or legislation to confirm their indentity is as two dimensional as their facebook page.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 24, 2016, 05:00:50 PM
The City of London is f%cked. Thousands of jobs will be lost . Maybe they can be replaced with the 350 m...
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 24, 2016, 05:02:17 PM
I had an argument on Facebook with someone in Dublin who would welcome border controls. If 'they' want to stop us going into the UK, we should stop 'them' coming to the ROI. I pointed out that a lot of 'them' were actually 'us' and worked daily in Dublin, and consider themselves Irish, and not only that but are guaranteed to be Irish under our constitution. Would we really want Irish people, working in Dublin, to be inconvenienced with a border every morning.

The response was that ye are not Irish. So hard luck lads. Even though the constitution says you are part of the Irish Nation, and Citizens of the ROI, as far as she was concerned, only people born in the 26 counties are Irish.

Sometimes I hate people.

Anyone who thinks like that isnt Irish. Sad really.
I hate that attitude
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: AZOffaly on June 24, 2016, 05:04:18 PM
I had an argument on Facebook with someone in Dublin who would welcome border controls. If 'they' want to stop us going into the UK, we should stop 'them' coming to the ROI. I pointed out that a lot of 'them' were actually 'us' and worked daily in Dublin, and consider themselves Irish, and not only that but are guaranteed to be Irish under our constitution. Would we really want Irish people, working in Dublin, to be inconvenienced with a border every morning.

The response was that ye are not Irish. So hard luck lads. Even though the constitution says you are part of the Irish Nation, and Citizens of the ROI, as far as she was concerned, only people born in the 26 counties are Irish.

Sometimes I hate people.

I may be wrong but does the constitution really say the north is Irish? I thought it was dropped in article 3 to allow for the GFA. And the dual citizenship is protected in the GFA not the constitution.

Either way anyone who refers to a piece of paper (passport) or legislation to confirm their indentity is as two dimensional as their facebook page.

The Consititution (article 19) states that it the birthright of anyone born on the island of Ireland to be part of the Irish nation.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: vallankumous on June 24, 2016, 05:10:40 PM

The Consititution (article 19) states that it the birthright of anyone born on the island of Ireland to be part of the Irish nation.

Did that not change in referendum on Irish Citizenship?

2004
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: AZOffaly on June 24, 2016, 05:12:28 PM
I believe there was an addendum to include provision for children born to non-nationals, but as far as I am aware, the right of people born in the 6 counties to be considered part of the Irish nation, and Irish citizens, did not change.

The constitution currently states :

it is the entitlement and birthright of every person
born in the island of ireland, which includes its
islands and seas, to be part of the irish nation.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: heganboy on June 24, 2016, 05:16:01 PM
The City of London is f%cked. Thousands of jobs will be lost . Maybe they can be replaced with the 350 m...

Seafoid- very valid point. There's a reason London voted stay. Morgan Stanley have already come out and declared they are considering the move of their EU headquarters to Dublin. The timing of the Brexit at the same time as the UK is pressing global companies to pay more UK tax incentivizes these firms to move to the only remaining English speaking country remaining in the EU.

The economic shock to the whole of the UK of this decision is a long way away from being realized at this point. Scotland and Northern Ireland in particular are better off in the EU, as are England and Wales (not to mention Gibraltar) but more noticeably Scotland and NI.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: vallankumous on June 24, 2016, 05:18:22 PM
I believe there was an addendum to include provision for children born to non-nationals, but as far as I am aware, the right of people born in the 6 counties to be considered part of the Irish nation, and Irish citizens, did not change.

What about British Nationals?

Pretty sure it didn't specify.
If a child to Scottish Parents is born in Belfast they are not Irish Citizens unless proven in a court.
However, under the GFA the are entitled to Dual citizenship through lesislation.
I'm don't know how that works but seems to be the case.

I suppose the point is, that regardless of UK in or out of EU these issues are for Ireland and the UK and will always be.

As for your debate on facebook, it's nothing to get annoyed at in my opinion.

Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Harold Disgracey on June 24, 2016, 05:18:39 PM
I wonder will Arlene be so smug when the likes of Citigroup up sticks and move to Dublin?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Ulick on June 24, 2016, 05:19:56 PM
I had an argument on Facebook with someone in Dublin who would welcome border controls. If 'they' want to stop us going into the UK, we should stop 'them' coming to the ROI. I pointed out that a lot of 'them' were actually 'us' and worked daily in Dublin, and consider themselves Irish, and not only that but are guaranteed to be Irish under our constitution. Would we really want Irish people, working in Dublin, to be inconvenienced with a border every morning.

The response was that ye are not Irish. So hard luck lads. Even though the constitution says you are part of the Irish Nation, and Citizens of the ROI, as far as she was concerned, only people born in the 26 counties are Irish.

Sometimes I hate people.

I may be wrong but does the constitution really say the north is Irish? I thought it was dropped in article 3 to allow for the GFA. And the dual citizenship is protected in the GFA not the constitution.

Either way anyone who refers to a piece of paper (passport) or legislation to confirm their indentity is as two dimensional as their facebook page.

The GFA guarantees more than dual citizenship, it also protects the right of all those born in the north to a single Irish citizenship (rather than dual citizenship) and as such to be legally no different from those born in the south. Constitution gives this right the underlying legal basis. Therefore those born in the north do not have to do anything (such as getting a passport) to prove their citizenship.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Rois on June 24, 2016, 05:22:18 PM
In a way the Bretix vote is good for nationalism 20 years of the GFA has made the middle class nationalists soft on a united Ireland but this DUP sponsored breakup of the UK should go along way to firming that up again.

I think that point is very very accurate.  After disappointment and sadness this morning, my reaction is much firmly focussed on how little I have in common with the Out voters in England.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: heganboy on June 24, 2016, 05:26:08 PM
I wonder will Arlene be so smug when the likes of Citigroup up sticks and move to Dublin?

I'm not so sure that this is an immediate concern but definitely not he 5-7 year horizon


A much more immediate problem is the reality is that a lot of the companies who were very advanced in their plans to move to the north will stall out until the uncertainty is no longer a concern in whatever that should be. The markets and CFOs hate uncertainty and unpredictability.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: vallankumous on June 24, 2016, 05:26:40 PM
The GFA guarantees more than dual citizenship, it also protects the right of all those born in the north to a single Irish citizenship (rather than dual citizenship) and as such to be legally no different from those born in the south. Constitution gives this right the underlying legal basis. Therefore those born in the north do not have to do anything (such as getting a passport) to prove their citizenship.

Even if the GFA isn't constitutionally protected in itself there is a legal basis for it?.

So legally no different or Constitutionally no different or both?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: AZOffaly on June 24, 2016, 05:29:30 PM
I believe there was an addendum to include provision for children born to non-nationals, but as far as I am aware, the right of people born in the 6 counties to be considered part of the Irish nation, and Irish citizens, did not change.

What about British Nationals?

Pretty sure it didn't specify.
If a child to Scottish Parents is born in Belfast they are not Irish Citizens unless proven in a court.
However, under the GFA the are entitled to Dual citizenship through lesislation.
I'm don't know how that works but seems to be the case.

I suppose the point is, that regardless of UK in or out of EU these issues are for Ireland and the UK and will always be.

As for your debate on facebook, it's nothing to get annoyed at in my opinion.

Only annoyed because this person basically said if you are from the north you are a foreigner and she had no problem with them having to cross a border. I don't see any Irish person as a foreigner and I do not want a hard border outside Dundalk.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: general_lee on June 24, 2016, 05:29:31 PM
What worries me is the people in NI who voted Leave. Many of the English voters were duped (imho) whereas voters here... What exactly do they, as someone from Northern Ireland, stand to benefit from? The only argument I've heard from pro-brexit unionists is that it's a "uk-wide issue"; that theyve just done what their idiot politicans have told them to do
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: heganboy on June 24, 2016, 05:32:13 PM
What worries me is the people in NI who voted Leave. Many of the English voters were duped (imho) whereas voters here... What exactly do they, as someone from Northern Ireland, stand to benefit from? The only argument I've heard from pro-brexit unionists is that it's a "uk-wide issue"; that theyve just done what their idiot politicans have told them to do

Anecdotally, a lot of folks in the north have viewed this referendum as an opportunity to reassert their Britishness.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: vallankumous on June 24, 2016, 05:35:36 PM
What worries me is the people in NI who voted Leave. Many of the English voters were duped (imho) whereas voters here... What exactly do they, as someone from Northern Ireland, stand to benefit from? The only argument I've heard from pro-brexit unionists is that it's a "uk-wide issue"; that theyve just done what their idiot politicans have told them to do

Anecdotally, a lot of folks in the north have viewed this referendum as an opportunity to reassert their Britishness.

Beats marching season if ye ask me
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: general_lee on June 24, 2016, 05:39:43 PM
What worries me is the people in NI who voted Leave. Many of the English voters were duped (imho) whereas voters here... What exactly do they, as someone from Northern Ireland, stand to benefit from? The only argument I've heard from pro-brexit unionists is that it's a "uk-wide issue"; that theyve just done what their idiot politicans have told them to do

Anecdotally, a lot of folks in the north have viewed this referendum as an opportunity to reassert their Britishness.
I've got that impression too. It's actually quite depressing.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on June 24, 2016, 05:43:30 PM
Reading that the EU parliament president wants the out process sped up to get Britain out ASAP.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: HiMucker on June 24, 2016, 05:44:08 PM
I believe there was an addendum to include provision for children born to non-nationals, but as far as I am aware, the right of people born in the 6 counties to be considered part of the Irish nation, and Irish citizens, did not change.

What about British Nationals?

Pretty sure it didn't specify.
If a child to Scottish Parents is born in Belfast they are not Irish Citizens unless proven in a court.
However, under the GFA the are entitled to Dual citizenship through lesislation.
I'm don't know how that works but seems to be the case.

I suppose the point is, that regardless of UK in or out of EU these issues are for Ireland and the UK and will always be.

As for your debate on facebook, it's nothing to get annoyed at in my opinion.

Only annoyed because this person basically said if you are from the north you are a foreigner and she had no problem with them having to cross a border. I don't see any Irish person as a foreigner and I do not want a hard border outside Dundalk.
Your dead right AZ.  And it very much is something to get annoyed about if a sizeable number of Irish citizens hold that same view. 
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: vallankumous on June 24, 2016, 05:44:48 PM
Reading that the EU parliament president wants the out process sped up to get Britain out ASAP.

Anything you hear today should be taken with a pinch of salt.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Rossfan on June 24, 2016, 05:45:45 PM
I believe there was an addendum to include provision for children born to non-nationals, but as far as I am aware, the right of people born in the 6 counties to be considered part of the Irish nation, and Irish citizens, did not change.

What about British Nationals?

Pretty sure it didn't specify.
If a child to Scottish Parents is born in Belfast they are not Irish Citizens unless proven in a court.
However, under the GFA the are entitled to Dual citizenship through lesislation.
I'm don't know how that works but seems to be the case.

I suppose the point is, that regardless of UK in or out of EU these issues are for Ireland and the UK and will always be.

As for your debate on facebook, it's nothing to get annoyed at in my opinion.

Only annoyed because this person basically said if you are from the north you are a foreigner and she had no problem with them having to cross a border. I don't see any Irish person as a foreigner and I do not want a hard border outside Dundalk.

Who's going to man a "hard border" between Carrickmacross and Culloville?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: vallankumous on June 24, 2016, 05:49:17 PM

Only annoyed because this person basically said if you are from the north you are a foreigner and she had no problem with them having to cross a border. I don't see any Irish person as a foreigner and I do not want a hard border outside Dundalk.

Agreed.

Seperately -
For some reason 'foreigner' has become a bad word when often it's an honest description of someone. I know if I called some foreigners at work 'foreigners' they might get insulted.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Harold Disgracey on June 24, 2016, 05:51:56 PM
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: HiMucker on June 24, 2016, 05:53:43 PM
Your far better off to describe yourself as an expat than an immigrant.  Exactly the same thing but viewed completely differently
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: dec on June 24, 2016, 06:05:59 PM
They could call themselves the Federal United Celtic Kingdom

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 24, 2016, 06:08:41 PM
I wonder will Arlene be so smug when the likes of Citigroup up sticks and move to Dublin?

I'm not so sure that this is an immediate concern but definitely not he 5-7 year horizon


A much more immediate problem is the reality is that a lot of the companies who were very advanced in their plans to move to the north will stall out until the uncertainty is no longer a concern in whatever that should be. The markets and CFOs hate uncertainty and unpredictability.
It is partly their fault  Working class voters haven't had decent payrises for years in large swathes of the UK. That came home with a vengeance today
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 24, 2016, 06:11:35 PM
The City of London is f%cked. Thousands of jobs will be lost . Maybe they can be replaced with the 350 m...

Seafoid- very valid point. There's a reason London voted stay. Morgan Stanley have already come out and declared they are considering the move of their EU headquarters to Dublin. The timing of the Brexit at the same time as the UK is pressing global companies to pay more UK tax incentivizes these firms to move to the only remaining English speaking country remaining in the EU.

The economic shock to the whole of the UK of this decision is a long way away from being realized at this point. Scotland and Northern Ireland in particular are better off in the EU, as are England and Wales (not to mention Gibraltar) but more noticeably Scotland and NI.
The UK has  brutal current account deficit and a very bad budget deficit. The Bank of England has no scope to cut rates. The economic fallout will be painful.
The events to mark the centenary of the Somme look pathetic now.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: AhNowRef on June 24, 2016, 06:25:31 PM
I had an argument on Facebook with someone in Dublin who would welcome border controls. If 'they' want to stop us going into the UK, we should stop 'them' coming to the ROI. I pointed out that a lot of 'them' were actually 'us' and worked daily in Dublin, and consider themselves Irish, and not only that but are guaranteed to be Irish under our constitution. Would we really want Irish people, working in Dublin, to be inconvenienced with a border every morning.

The response was that ye are not Irish. So hard luck lads. Even though the constitution says you are part of the Irish Nation, and Citizens of the ROI, as far as she was concerned, only people born in the 26 counties are Irish.

Sometimes I hate people.

Jaysus, must be horrible to work with Ruth Dudley Edwards  :-\
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Armamike on June 24, 2016, 06:33:59 PM
The lunatics have taken over the asylum.  I wonder how many of the average joes in England who voted for leave really understand the possible impact of this on their pockets.  Who will they blame about the state of the NHS and the lack of jobs in 5 years time?  Big bad EU can't carry the can anymore. Over here, it's going to be a much tougher job for InvestNI to attract investment here now. 
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: AhNowRef on June 24, 2016, 06:38:44 PM
What worries me is the people in NI who voted Leave. Many of the English voters were duped (imho) whereas voters here... What exactly do they, as someone from Northern Ireland, stand to benefit from? The only argument I've heard from pro-brexit unionists is that it's a "uk-wide issue"; that theyve just done what their idiot politicans have told them to do

Anecdotally, a lot of folks in the north have viewed this referendum as an opportunity to reassert their Britishness.

Yeah , them mad eejits have aspirations of going back to a 1950s style Stormont and a closed off Union .. it aint gonna happen ..

With Scotland seeking another referendum (and to a lesser extent SF looking for a border poll) they may regret what they've helped do.. Shortsightedness as usual !!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 24, 2016, 06:46:50 PM
The lunatics have taken over the asylum.  I wonder how many of the average joes in England who voted for leave really understand the possible impact of this on their pockets.  Who will they blame about the state of the NHS and the lack of jobs in 5 years time?  Big bad EU can't carry the can anymore. Over here, it's going to be a much tougher job for InvestNI to attract investment here now.
The Daily Mail and the Sun have been telling Brits for 30 years that Europe was the problem. Now they can find out it it wasn't.  Democracy is the art of giving the people what they want, good and hard
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Clov on June 24, 2016, 07:04:52 PM
One of the most depressing aspects of the vote is the way young people have been shafted by the elderly.
Cameron really missed a trick by not extending the voting rights to 16 & 17-year-olds - as they did with the Scottish ref vote.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 24, 2016, 07:10:41 PM
One of the most depressing aspects of the vote is the way young people have been shafted by the elderly.
Cameron really missed a trick by not extending the voting rights to 16 & 17-year-olds - as they did with the Scottish ref vote.
the old shafting the young and even their own children is very much of the times . In Ireland you have the example of  middle aged teachers via the unuons fighting pay cuts to ensure younger teachers have far lower starting salaries
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Clov on June 24, 2016, 07:19:56 PM
One of the most depressing aspects of the vote is the way young people have been shafted by the elderly.
Cameron really missed a trick by not extending the voting rights to 16 & 17-year-olds - as they did with the Scottish ref vote.
the old shafting the young and even their own children is very much of the times . In Ireland you have the example of  middle aged teachers via the unuons fighting pay cuts to ensure younger teachers have far lower starting salaries

Well that seems to me an example of people acting in their own self interest - which is pretty common. I'm guessing if the shoe was on the other foot younger teachers would behave similarly. The Brexit vote seems more depressing for me in that the long term consequences of the out vote effect the young much more than the elderly. I half joked with someone in work today that votes should have been weighted by life expectancy. 
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 24, 2016, 07:26:40 PM
One thing that is very striking from this clusterfuck is how poor large parts of England are after 37 years of Thatcherism. Brexit was about this .
I was in a pub in Donaghadee on the Ards peninsula and there was a photo of the town 100 years ago. The people were all well dressed.  Over in Galway or Tipp people at the time had nothing . Economics are funny. Things change.

The Brits including our neighbours up north are seriously lost.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 24, 2016, 07:28:24 PM
One of the most depressing aspects of the vote is the way young people have been shafted by the elderly.
Cameron really missed a trick by not extending the voting rights to 16 & 17-year-olds - as they did with the Scottish ref vote.
the old shafting the young and even their own children is very much of the times . In Ireland you have the example of  middle aged teachers via the unuons fighting pay cuts to ensure younger teachers have far lower starting salaries

Well that seems to me an example of people acting in their own self interest - which is pretty common. I'm guessing if the shoe was on the other foot younger teachers would behave similarly. The Brexit vote seems more depressing for me in that the long term consequences of the out vote effect the young much more than the elderly. I half joked with someone in work today that votes should have been weighted by life expectancy.
In the big picture it is not coherent. Demand has to be supported for the economy y to recover but it is too remote for a lot of people
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: BennyCake on June 24, 2016, 07:30:05 PM
What worries me is the people in NI who voted Leave. Many of the English voters were duped (imho) whereas voters here... What exactly do they, as someone from Northern Ireland, stand to benefit from? The only argument I've heard from pro-brexit unionists is that it's a "uk-wide issue"; that theyve just done what their idiot politicans have told them to do

I voted Leave. Either way, the ordinary Joe will be shafted. Europe is run by unelected w**kers and member states have to toe the line. EU quotas have destroyed fishing in Ireland (and UK), a country that relies heavily on it. I never thought Leave would win, but now that it has, hopefully the rest will leave, and that can only be a good thing.

Yes, post-Brexit there will be recession, cuts etc - but they've never needed an excuse for that in the past. They'll blame Brexit and make people suffer but they would have done that anyway.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: INDIANA on June 24, 2016, 07:35:44 PM
What worries me is the people in NI who voted Leave. Many of the English voters were duped (imho) whereas voters here... What exactly do they, as someone from Northern Ireland, stand to benefit from? The only argument I've heard from pro-brexit unionists is that it's a "uk-wide issue"; that theyve just done what their idiot politicans have told them to do

I voted Leave. Either way, the ordinary Joe will be shafted. Europe is run by unelected w**kers and member states have to toe the line. EU quotas have destroyed fishing in Ireland (and UK), a country that relies heavily on it. I never thought Leave would win, but now that it has, hopefully the rest will leave, and that can only be a good thing.

Yes, post-Brexit there will be recession, cuts etc - but they've never needed an excuse for that in the past. They'll blame Brexit and make people suffer but they would have done that anyway.


That's complete rubbish. Nobody benefits from being outside the EU. Unless you're a martyr who gives all his disposal income to charity that is.

Financially this is a disaster for the UK. Morgan Stanley looking at moving 2,000 jobs to Dublin already. More to come

Agr farmers in Ireland will go out of business as well as many companies who trade with the UK.

Anyone who says this would have happened if the status quo had of remained either is Nigel Farage or just plain old stupid.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Kidder81 on June 24, 2016, 07:37:30 PM
Spoke to a few fellas in work today that voted Leave, all nationalists. They all cited immigration as their sole reason for voting Leave
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: INDIANA on June 24, 2016, 07:39:46 PM
Spoke to a few fellas in work today that voted Leave, all nationalists. They all cited immigration as their sole reason for voting Leave

Which is the stupidest reason of all. The jingoism of the worst excesses of Boris Johnson and Farage won the day and I'm sad to say my generation were responsible for the single worst decision the UK has made since the Falklands
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: BennyCake on June 24, 2016, 07:42:26 PM
Switzerland do alright. As does Norway, Israel, US, China etc.

You are deluded if you think the UK won't be able to trade with EU members. They're the 5th or 6th biggest economy in the world. They'll work it out!

Immigration is a factor too. Infrastructures can't cope with massive influxes of people; hospitals, doctors, schools etc. Another good reason to get out. Should've happened 10 years ago.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Kidder81 on June 24, 2016, 07:43:41 PM
Spoke to a few fellas in work today that voted Leave, all nationalists. They all cited immigration as their sole reason for voting Leave

Which is the stupidest reason of all. The jingoism of the worst excesses of Boris Johnson and Farage won the day and I'm sad to say my generation were responsible for the single worst decision the UK has made since the Falklands

One of them has a brother working in the US
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 24, 2016, 07:52:05 PM
Switzerland do alright. As does Norway, Israel, US, China etc.

You are deluded if you think the UK won't be able to trade with EU members. They're the 5th or 6th biggest economy in the world. They'll work it out!

Immigration is a factor too. Infrastructures can't cope with massive influxes of people; hospitals, doctors, schools etc. Another good reason to get out. Should've happened 10 years ago.
Switzerland is deflating. The big 2 banks trade at 60% of book value
The UK econ. could contract by 10%
EU subs cost 1% of GDP

Norway has oil
Israel is poor


Financial chaos is about allocating losses. The UK just shot itself in the foot .
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 24, 2016, 07:53:22 PM
What worries me is the people in NI who voted Leave. Many of the English voters were duped (imho) whereas voters here... What exactly do they, as someone from Northern Ireland, stand to benefit from? The only argument I've heard from pro-brexit unionists is that it's a "uk-wide issue"; that theyve just done what their idiot politicans have told them to do

I voted Leave. Either way, the ordinary Joe will be shafted. Europe is run by unelected w**kers and member states have to toe the line. EU quotas have destroyed fishing in Ireland (and UK), a country that relies heavily on it. I never thought Leave would win, but now that it has, hopefully the rest will leave, and that can only be a good thing.

Yes, post-Brexit there will be recession, cuts etc - but they've never needed an excuse for that in the past. They'll blame Brexit and make people suffer but they would have done that anyway.
Ordinary Joes typically get to a point where they say "f**k that " and demand a new system.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: INDIANA on June 24, 2016, 07:54:45 PM
Switzerland do alright. As does Norway, Israel, US, China etc.

You are deluded if you think the UK won't be able to trade with EU members. They're the 5th or 6th biggest economy in the world. They'll work it out!

Immigration is a factor too. Infrastructures can't cope with massive influxes of people; hospitals, doctors, schools etc. Another good reason to get out. Should've happened 10 years ago.

The UK has had billions wiped off it's stock market today that it will never see again.

It will lose all the funding that it got from the EU.

Beggars belief the sheer ignorance out there. When it hits the pocket they'll realise what a stupid decision it was
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 24, 2016, 07:56:43 PM
Switzerland do alright. As does Norway, Israel, US, China etc.

You are deluded if you think the UK won't be able to trade with EU members. They're the 5th or 6th biggest economy in the world. They'll work it out!

Immigration is a factor too. Infrastructures can't cope with massive influxes of people; hospitals, doctors, schools etc. Another good reason to get out. Should've happened 10 years ago.

The UK has had billions wiped off it's stock market today that it will never see again.

It will lose all the funding that it got from the EU.

Beggars belief the sheer ignorance out there. When it hits the pocket they'll realise what a stupid decision it was
Ordinary people don't understand how finance works
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: thewobbler on June 24, 2016, 07:59:15 PM
Switzerland do alright. As does Norway, Israel, US, China etc.

You are deluded if you think the UK won't be able to trade with EU members. They're the 5th or 6th biggest economy in the world. They'll work it out!

Immigration is a factor too. Infrastructures can't cope with massive influxes of people; hospitals, doctors, schools etc. Another good reason to get out. Should've happened 10 years ago.

The UK has had billions wiped off it's stock market today that it will never see again.

It will lose all the funding that it got from the EU.

Beggars belief the sheer ignorance out there. When it hits the pocket they'll realise what a stupid decision it was

I'd like you explain the bit in bold. Especially how long "never" will last.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: BennyCake on June 24, 2016, 08:02:40 PM
Switzerland do alright. As does Norway, Israel, US, China etc.

You are deluded if you think the UK won't be able to trade with EU members. They're the 5th or 6th biggest economy in the world. They'll work it out!

Immigration is a factor too. Infrastructures can't cope with massive influxes of people; hospitals, doctors, schools etc. Another good reason to get out. Should've happened 10 years ago.

The UK has had billions wiped off it's stock market today that it will never see again.

It will lose all the funding that it got from the EU.

Beggars belief the sheer ignorance out there. When it hits the pocket they'll realise what a stupid decision it was
Ordinary people don't understand how finance works

Ordinary people don't trust politicans. Brexit is a result of successive governments lying to and screwing people over.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: INDIANA on June 24, 2016, 08:06:19 PM
Switzerland do alright. As does Norway, Israel, US, China etc.

You are deluded if you think the UK won't be able to trade with EU members. They're the 5th or 6th biggest economy in the world. They'll work it out!

Immigration is a factor too. Infrastructures can't cope with massive influxes of people; hospitals, doctors, schools etc. Another good reason to get out. Should've happened 10 years ago.

The UK has had billions wiped off it's stock market today that it will never see again.

It will lose all the funding that it got from the EU.

Beggars belief the sheer ignorance out there. When it hits the pocket they'll realise what a stupid decision it was
Ordinary people don't understand how finance works

It was a vote for the uneducated. Unfortunately they were duped by the idiots and fell for it. Huge tranches of the poorest regions in England voted to leave without realising that they will be ever poorer as a result.

The old and the uneducated are to blame

No intelligent individual would vote to leave
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Armamike on June 24, 2016, 08:11:04 PM
History shows that immigrants tend to bear the brunt when economic conditions are poor.  Immigrants aren't responsible for poor investment in the NHS, or for the lack of foreign investment, of for the lack of entrepreneurial new start ups that lead to new jobs. 
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 24, 2016, 08:11:38 PM
I wonder will Arlene be so smug when the likes of Citigroup up sticks and move to Dublin?

I'm not so sure that this is an immediate concern but definitely not he 5-7 year horizon


A much more immediate problem is the reality is that a lot of the companies who were very advanced in their plans to move to the north will stall out until the uncertainty is no longer a concern in whatever that should be. The markets and CFOs hate uncertainty and unpredictability.
It is partly their fault  Working class voters haven't had decent payrises for years in large swathes of the UK. That came home with a vengeance today

Mist bankers and government workers had pay freezes for a long time during the recession as did most people working in public and private sector...so that covers a large proportion of working class?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: thewobbler on June 24, 2016, 08:13:49 PM
Switzerland do alright. As does Norway, Israel, US, China etc.

You are deluded if you think the UK won't be able to trade with EU members. They're the 5th or 6th biggest economy in the world. They'll work it out!

Immigration is a factor too. Infrastructures can't cope with massive influxes of people; hospitals, doctors, schools etc. Another good reason to get out. Should've happened 10 years ago.

The UK has had billions wiped off it's stock market today that it will never see again.

It will lose all the funding that it got from the EU.

Beggars belief the sheer ignorance out there. When it hits the pocket they'll realise what a stupid decision it was
Ordinary people don't understand how finance works

It was a vote for the uneducated. Unfortunately they were duped by the idiots and fell for it. Huge tranches of the poorest regions in England voted to leave without realising that they will be ever poorer as a result.

The old and the uneducated are to blame

No intelligent individual would vote to leave

No intelligent individual would lay claim to the outlandish doomsday scenarios you are painting above.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: knockitdown on June 24, 2016, 08:22:04 PM
A good time to try start your own business? I've been thing about it for the past 12 months, waiting on this for 3, and ready to pull the trigger and hand in my notice. I never really expected that leave would be the outcome. This morning was terrible, but as the day goes on I'm starting to think that life has to go on, and it will. We aren't Israel, Norway or Switzerland. The EU need us as much as we need them, and I think this will come through over the course of the next few months.

Btw, my vote was to remain
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 24, 2016, 08:33:09 PM
I wonder will Arlene be so smug when the likes of Citigroup up sticks and move to Dublin?

I'm not so sure that this is an immediate concern but definitely not he 5-7 year horizon


A much more immediate problem is the reality is that a lot of the companies who were very advanced in their plans to move to the north will stall out until the uncertainty is no longer a concern in whatever that should be. The markets and CFOs hate uncertainty and unpredictability.
It is partly their fault  Working class voters haven't had decent payrises for years in large swathes of the UK. That came home with a vengeance today

Mist bankers and government workers had pay freezes for a long time during the recession as did most people working in public and private sector...so that covers a large proportion of working class?
MR it goes back at least 20 years
Wages in Wales have never recovered from the 1980s
NI is sheltered from the real world in many respects
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: heganboy on June 24, 2016, 08:34:07 PM
not sure why I'm bothering, but here goes

Switzerland do alright.
in that Switzerland is a stable well educated social equal population with stable politics and stable monetary policy, a currency that has plummeted, and it meets all the EU's trading regulations on purpose  (as opposed to what the Brexiters are proposing)
"these EU regulations are killing us..."


 As does Norway oil that the government owns,
 Israel dependent on the US,
 US, China
 are you seriously comparing the UK's economy to the US and China- maybe 150 years ago when there was an empire

You are deluded if you think the UK won't be able to trade with EU members. They're the 5th or 6th biggest economy in the world. They'll work it out!
sure they will- but at what cost what delusion now?

Immigration is a factor too.
this cracks me up
fear is the factor not immigration
what do you think leaving the EU is going to do to immigration?
what is immigration doing that is affecting your life so badly?
who do you think does the low paid work when the immigrants leave?

oh thats right you will and your family will and they will be glad to, because the economy will be such a state that there won't be better jobs, and there sure as shit won't be a national insurance and pensions safety net to save you


Infrastructures can't cope with massive influxes of people; hospitals, doctors, schools etc. Another good reason to get out. Should've happened 10 years ago.
this is where the get you, in the long grass.
when you put the needs of the rich above the needs of the poor the whole country suffers. the relaxation of corporate tax, loopholes, capital gains and reduced income taxes at the highest bands you don't have money for your national health service, education and you suffer a massive infrastructure debt (which was actually funded by the EU) Look back to thatcher and her policies, and now reap what they sowed. They built a system to encourage a wealth gap a make it wider, but what happens when the left behind uneducated poor get an equal vote to the rich protected capital providers?

infrastructure and invention were what the empire was built on.
the problem is not the infrastructure now, the problem is 30 years of underinvestment in the infrastructure, education and the health service.
Helps when the electorate is woefully under informed


Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: stew on June 24, 2016, 08:38:56 PM
The lunatics have taken over the asylum.  I wonder how many of the average joes in England who voted for leave really understand the possible impact of this on their pockets.  Who will they blame about the state of the NHS and the lack of jobs in 5 years time?  Big bad EU can't carry the can anymore. Over here, it's going to be a much tougher job for InvestNI to attract investment here now.

Listen to yourselves, the people have voted democratically to exit the EU, quit whinging and finger pointing and accept the decision and move on.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: omaghjoe on June 24, 2016, 08:46:10 PM
Dunno what yous are on about this extra money in your pocket.
We will all be fit to head off to the bog now and win turf instead of splurging money on home heating oil.
Whats more there will be a demand for them in the south so we will be fit to sell on the black market. The wee6 will never have been better off.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: SkillfulBill on June 24, 2016, 08:56:33 PM
The lunatics have taken over the asylum.  I wonder how many of the average joes in England who voted for leave really understand the possible impact of this on their pockets.  Who will they blame about the state of the NHS and the lack of jobs in 5 years time?  Big bad EU can't carry the can anymore. Over here, it's going to be a much tougher job for InvestNI to attract investment here now.

Listen to yourselves, the people have voted democratically to exit the EU, quit whinging and finger pointing and accept the decision and move on.

I will gladly accept this decision I actually find it very funny how these idiots are so f**king gullible to buy the crap they have been peedled by the leave camp £350 mill a day for the NHS didn't last past 10.30 the next morning. The exit vote had f..all to do with economics NHS or any of that crap. It boils down to racisim of the little Englanders. Huge sections of the horticultural and food industry in the UK rely on immigrants to do the jobs that the little englanders feel is beneath them a Unionist friend today was appoleptic about the fact that the UK was voted out of the EU by people who didnt have the first notion what they were doing. I nearly split my sides laughing when he started on the DUP In his words scewing with the Union and inviting the scots to vote on a cert leave referendum.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: omaghjoe on June 24, 2016, 09:01:40 PM
We will now be able to reap the rewards of democracy and a free press, what a glorious country we live in
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: INDIANA on June 24, 2016, 09:04:34 PM
The lunatics have taken over the asylum.  I wonder how many of the average joes in England who voted for leave really understand the possible impact of this on their pockets.  Who will they blame about the state of the NHS and the lack of jobs in 5 years time?  Big bad EU can't carry the can anymore. Over here, it's going to be a much tougher job for InvestNI to attract investment here now.

Listen to yourselves, the people have voted democratically to exit the EU, quit whinging and finger pointing and accept the decision and move on.

I will gladly accept this decision I actually find it very funny how these idiots are so f**king gullible to buy the crap they have been peedled by the leave camp £350 mill a day for the NHS didn't last past 10.30 the next morning. The exit vote had f..all to do with economics NHS or any of that crap. It boils down to racisim of the little Englanders. Huge sections of the horticultural and food industry in the UK rely on immigrants to do the jobs that the little englanders feel is beneath them a Unionist friend today was appoleptic about the fact that the UK was voted out of the EU by people who didnt have the first notion what they were doing. I nearly split my sides laughing when he started on the DUP In his words scewing with the Union and inviting the scots to vote on a cert leave referendum.

100 percent correct. English people have always been traditionally stupid and this put the tin lid on it. They are also one of the most racist populations in the world.
You only have to look at the yobbos representing them singing Republican Songs outside Irish Bars in France. And to think some Irish people from the North voted in unison with these clowns. A ringing endorsement of the Northern education system!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 24, 2016, 09:15:53 PM
I wonder will Arlene be so smug when the likes of Citigroup up sticks and move to Dublin?

I'm not so sure that this is an immediate concern but definitely not he 5-7 year horizon


A much more immediate problem is the reality is that a lot of the companies who were very advanced in their plans to move to the north will stall out until the uncertainty is no longer a concern in whatever that should be. The markets and CFOs hate uncertainty and unpredictability.
It is partly their fault  Working class voters haven't had decent payrises for years in large swathes of the UK. That came home with a vengeance today

Mist bankers and government workers had pay freezes for a long time during the recession as did most people working in public and private sector...so that covers a large proportion of working class?
MR it goes back at least 20 years
Wages in Wales have never recovered from the 1980s
NI is sheltered from the real world in many respects

Wages in Wales has never been great but they have always had a low living costs.... Nothing like wages in the rest of uk.  N.i wages about on a par with North east England and parts of Scotland....

A lot of areas that have money (bar London) voted to leave
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: omaghjoe on June 24, 2016, 09:20:02 PM
The lunatics have taken over the asylum.  I wonder how many of the average joes in England who voted for leave really understand the possible impact of this on their pockets.  Who will they blame about the state of the NHS and the lack of jobs in 5 years time?  Big bad EU can't carry the can anymore. Over here, it's going to be a much tougher job for InvestNI to attract investment here now.

Listen to yourselves, the people have voted democratically to exit the EU, quit whinging and finger pointing and accept the decision and move on.

I will gladly accept this decision I actually find it very funny how these idiots are so f**king gullible to buy the crap they have been peedled by the leave camp £350 mill a day for the NHS didn't last past 10.30 the next morning. The exit vote had f..all to do with economics NHS or any of that crap. It boils down to racisim of the little Englanders. Huge sections of the horticultural and food industry in the UK rely on immigrants to do the jobs that the little englanders feel is beneath them a Unionist friend today was appoleptic about the fact that the UK was voted out of the EU by people who didnt have the first notion what they were doing. I nearly split my sides laughing when he started on the DUP In his words scewing with the Union and inviting the scots to vote on a cert leave referendum.

100 percent correct. English people have always been traditionally stupid and this put the tin lid on it. They are also one of the most racist populations in the world.
You only have to look at the yobbos representing them singing Republican Songs outside Irish Bars in France. And to think some Irish people from the North voted in unison with these clowns. A ringing endorsement of the Northern education system!

Irish Republican songs?
Or is more the Cromwellian type of republican songs?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 24, 2016, 09:25:00 PM
Send her victorious, happy and glorious

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/29a7964c-3953-11e6-9a05-82a9b15a8ee7.html

The UK and, to a lesser degree, the EU are now at the beginning of an extended period of uncertainty. The Conservatives will have new leadership. Whether they will manage to produce a coherent government is another matter. They then will have to do what Brexiters failed to do during their mendacious campaign — map out a plan for unravelling the UK’s connections with the EU. They broke it; they now own it. But, alas, it seems unlikely that there is any plan on which Brexiters can agree.

The UK economy is going to be reconfigured. Those businesses that have set up in the UK to serve the EU market must reconsider their position. The City’s role in trading in euro-denominated assets will be undermined. Manufacturers will also have to consider how to readjust their productive capacity. Many will relocate. Businesses who depend on their ability to employ European nationals freely will have to reshape operations. Many will want to move inside the EU single market. Such decisions will not have to be made at once. But they will drive down investment now. In economic life, the future is always, to an extent, here today.
In the short term, however, it will be difficult to make any such decisions sensibly. Business simply does not know how politicians will end up approaching the difficult negotiations ahead. This uncertainty has always been the obvious result of a vote to leave. Only time will clear this fog. But the view that, beyond a lengthy period of transition, the UK will be poorer than it would otherwise have been is overwhelmingly probable. The UK did well inside the EU. It is unlikely to do as well outside it.


Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Rossfan on June 24, 2016, 09:27:15 PM
Now that Cameron is handing over to his party's Brexit rump - have they any idea what they want now?
Have that any idea what sort of relationship they might want with the 400m people in the EU?
Are they going to just look on them as " the rest of the world" that we might do some business with
Or
Have they any idea ?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 24, 2016, 09:28:41 PM
It has been some week for news. Galway beat Mayo. Ireland beat Italy. NI qualified. And now brexit. 
Brexit fexit though
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 24, 2016, 09:30:04 PM
Now that Cameron is handing over to his party's Brexit rump - have they any idea what they want now?
Have that any idea what sort of relationship they might want with the 400m people in the EU?
Are they going to just look on them as " the rest of the world" that we might do some business with
Or
Have they any idea ?

No. Europe isn't the issue. Brexit won't fix the current account or generate pay rises. 
Some very difficult years ahead for the UK
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Tony Baloney on June 24, 2016, 09:33:45 PM
I wonder will Arlene be so smug when the likes of Citigroup up sticks and move to Dublin?

I'm not so sure that this is an immediate concern but definitely not he 5-7 year horizon


A much more immediate problem is the reality is that a lot of the companies who were very advanced in their plans to move to the north will stall out until the uncertainty is no longer a concern in whatever that should be. The markets and CFOs hate uncertainty and unpredictability.
It is partly their fault  Working class voters haven't had decent payrises for years in large swathes of the UK. That came home with a vengeance today

Mist bankers and government workers had pay freezes for a long time during the recession as did most people working in public and private sector...so that covers a large proportion of working class?
MR it goes back at least 20 years
Wages in Wales have never recovered from the 1980s
NI is sheltered from the real world in many respects

Wages in Wales has never been great but they have always had a low living costs.... Nothing like wages in the rest of uk.  N.i wages about on a par with North east England and parts of Scotland....

A lot of areas that have money (bar London) voted to leave
Boston in Lincolnshire recorded this highest percentage vote to leave. It is also Britain's least integrated area. These areas in Eastern England are reliant on migrant workers for picking crops.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/boston-how-a-lincolnshire-town-became-the-most-divided-place-in-england-a6838041.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/boston-how-a-lincolnshire-town-became-the-most-divided-place-in-england-a6838041.html)

If you have a lack of integration, a oerception that immigrantd are stealing your (minimum wage jobs no locals want) and The Sun and The Daily Mail throw fuel on the fire, then Leave campaigners can mop up handy votes.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 24, 2016, 09:39:09 PM
Precarity in England is a huge factor in this vote

http://www.northantstelegraph.co.uk/news/top-stories/corby-man-forced-to-abandon-mum-s-body-in-funeral-parlour-1-7408149


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b90a7278-3a02-11e6-9a05-82a9b15a8ee7.html
Capitalism needed saving, but in bailing out the financial institutions with taxpayers’ money, governments transferred the stresses from markets to politics. A return to economic growth would relieve some of the pressure. Europe in particular must understand just how politically corrosive slavish devotion to fiscal targets has become. But the politicians also must confront the excesses. If they want to save liberal democracy, they will have to reform capitalism.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: LeoMc on June 24, 2016, 09:47:26 PM
Switzerland do alright. As does Norway, Israel, US, China etc.

You are deluded if you think the UK won't be able to trade with EU members. They're the 5th or 6th biggest economy in the world. They'll work it out!

Immigration is a factor too. Infrastructures can't cope with massive influxes of people; hospitals, doctors, schools etc. Another good reason to get out. Should've happened 10 years ago.
Norway and Switzerland have to allow free movement and follow all ligislation but have no input.
EU immigration n last year accounted for 0.0025% of population increase. If that broke the NHS then we are in bigger trouble than we know.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: LeoMc on June 24, 2016, 09:49:04 PM
What worries me is the people in NI who voted Leave. Many of the English voters were duped (imho) whereas voters here... What exactly do they, as someone from Northern Ireland, stand to benefit from? The only argument I've heard from pro-brexit unionists is that it's a "uk-wide issue"; that theyve just done what their idiot politicans have told them to do

I voted Leave. Either way, the ordinary Joe will be shafted. Europe is run by unelected w**kers and member states have to toe the line. EU quotas have destroyed fishing in Ireland (and UK), a country that relies heavily on it. I never thought Leave would win, but now that it has, hopefully the rest will leave, and that can only be a good thing.

Yes, post-Brexit there will be recession, cuts etc - but they've never needed an excuse for that in the past. They'll blame Brexit and make people suffer but they would have done that anyway.
EU unelected beaurocrat = UK civil servant. Semantics.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: LeoMc on June 24, 2016, 09:49:46 PM
What worries me is the people in NI who voted Leave. Many of the English voters were duped (imho) whereas voters here... What exactly do they, as someone from Northern Ireland, stand to benefit from? The only argument I've heard from pro-brexit unionists is that it's a "uk-wide issue"; that theyve just done what their idiot politicans have told them to do

I voted Leave. Either way, the ordinary Joe will be shafted. Europe is run by unelected w**kers and member states have to toe the line. EU quotas have destroyed fishing in Ireland (and UK), a country that relies heavily on it. I never thought Leave would win, but now that it has, hopefully the rest will leave, and that can only be a good thing.

Yes, post-Brexit there will be recession, cuts etc - but they've never needed an excuse for that in the past. They'll blame Brexit and make people suffer but they would have done that anyway.
Without quotas there would be no fish.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: LeoMc on June 24, 2016, 09:50:40 PM
Switzerland do alright. As does Norway, Israel, US, China etc.

You are deluded if you think the UK won't be able to trade with EU members. They're the 5th or 6th biggest economy in the world. They'll work it out!

Immigration is a factor too. Infrastructures can't cope with massive influxes of people; hospitals, doctors, schools etc. Another good reason to get out. Should've happened 10 years ago.

The UK has had billions wiped off it's stock market today that it will never see again.

It will lose all the funding that it got from the EU.

Beggars belief the sheer ignorance out there. When it hits the pocket they'll realise what a stupid decision it was
Ordinary people don't understand how finance works

Ordinary people don't trust politicans. Brexit is a result of successive governments lying to and screwing people over.
Now that I agree with.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 24, 2016, 09:53:29 PM
Ricky Gervais tweeted..... Joking aside, Brexit won't make any difference, the rich will still be rich and the poor will still be poor, and we'll still blame Johnny foreigner
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: LeoMc on June 24, 2016, 09:53:36 PM
The lunatics have taken over the asylum.  I wonder how many of the average joes in England who voted for leave really understand the possible impact of this on their pockets.  Who will they blame about the state of the NHS and the lack of jobs in 5 years time?  Big bad EU can't carry the can anymore. Over here, it's going to be a much tougher job for InvestNI to attract investment here now.

Listen to yourselves, the people have voted democratically to exit the EU, quit whinging and finger pointing and accept the decision and move on.
Correct t, we have to make the best of it. No point fighting the last battle.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: johnneycool on June 24, 2016, 10:01:25 PM
You kinda hope that the Tories select Boris (is he an MP?) and he's sent to do the deal with the EU, you really can't see anything other than a mess, but who else looks like leadership material there?

As for Corbyn, he comes across as a decent human being but not the type of person to inspire people
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Boycey on June 24, 2016, 10:22:34 PM
You kinda hope that the Tories select Boris (is he an MP?) and he's sent to do the deal with the EU, you really can't see anything other than a mess, but who else looks like leadership material there?

As for Corbyn, he comes across as a decent human being but not the type of person to inspire people

He who wields the knife never wears the crown?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 24, 2016, 10:29:15 PM

Nick Clegg

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6044d4e8-3a03-11e6-a780-b48ed7b6126f.html

The people have spoken. Like any democrat, I respect the outcome of the referendum and believe the will of the voters must now be carried out.
But that does not mean I am not angry. I feel no anger towards the millions who voted for Brexit: they did so out of a mixture of conviction, frustration and disillusionment with the status quo which was sincere and heartfelt.
No, I am angry that my children’s future has been put at risk by a needless referendum. Angry at the brazen mendacity of a Leave campaign which has no idea what happens next. Angry at the careless elitism of Michael Gove, Boris Johnson, Steve Hilton and other leading Brexiters, parading themselves as tribunes of the people from their gilded worlds in Westminster, North London and California.
Angry at the years of wilful misrepresentation of the EU by vested interests in the press. Angry at the betrayal that Brexit voters will feel when they realise — too late — that a land of milk and honey outside the EU does not exist.
Angry that the political stability, legal reliability and economic openness which have marked out Britain as a global leader have been casually cast aside. Angry that three-quarters of young people voted for a future — to remain in the EU — denied to them by their seniors.
But my greatest anger is reserved for David Cameron and George Osborne — notwithstanding the dignity of the prime minister’s resignation . They and they alone are responsible for bringing our great country to this sorry pass.
This need never have happened. When we were in coalition with the Conservatives I was repeatedly asked by them to agree to a referendum on their terms.
I refused point blank because elevating internal party rows to a national plebiscite is not good enough — especially since we had already enshrined into law in 2011 a referendum trigger to ratify future EU Treaties.
I remember asking the prime minister whether he was sure he could win a referendum designed to settle an internal Tory feud. I was breezily told that all would be well, of course it would be won.
When the Conservatives unexpectedly won the general election last year their complacency only increased: they started to believe they could defy political gravity, on the winning side of the 2011 referendum on voting reform, the Scottish referendum in 2014 and now gifted with a majority of their own.
They forgot that less than a quarter of eligible voters voted Conservative. Last year’s election victory was no mandate for the Tories — it was a vote against all the other likely alternatives.
But they pressed on regardless — clogging up parliament with petty, partisan measures to clip the wings of trade unions, remove public funds from opposition parties, slash tax credits, grant tax bungs to their wealthy supporters and fiddle with constituency boundaries to cement their electoral advantage.
When we were in coalition with the Conservatives I was repeatedly asked by them to agree to a referendum on their terms. I refused point blank
After Mr Osborne’s first budget unravelled I expected that they would tread more carefully. But still they pressed on — and the chancellor’s second budget was also eviscerated in the face of parliamentary opposition.
But their greatest failing was this: having spent two decades striking poses as Eurosceptics to curry favour with their party they believed that they could change their tune in the last second of the eleventh hour in the referendum.
Voters are not stupid. I met many people in my own constituency in Sheffield who refused to follow Messrs Cameron or Osborne because they had been told the exact opposite by them for years.
Like all pro-Europeans, I sought to help the No 10-led referendum campaign — providing private advice and public support. But as the campaign wore on, it became clear that the prime minister and his chancellor were prisoners of their past: having spent so many years denigrating the EU, it was impossible for them to make a positive case.
They were condemned to make a negative case — the EU is not great, but leaving would be worse — which lacked any emotional impact, culminating in the dismal “punishment budget” proposed by Mr Osborne last week.
I feel for Mr Cameron and his family today — as I know well, abrupt defeat is not easy. My head is less forgiving. His and Mr Osborne’s fair-weather approach to Britain’s vital national interests in Europe has let future generations down.
The message for internationalist, pro-European politicians in all parties is clear: we must never again allow our national interest to be hijacked by internal party feuds; we must take on the populists who only know how to destroy the links that bind nations together; we must work across parties to safeguard the Britain we believe in — a great people engaged with, not divorced from, our own European continent.
The writer, former leader of the Liberal Democrats, was deputy prime minister in the 2010-15 coalition government
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 24, 2016, 10:32:19 PM
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/63769fb6-3a03-11e6-a780-b48ed7b6126f.html

The US will also pay a price for Brexit. One of its closest partners in the world will have less to offer. And the UK will no longer be able to influence the course of EU foreign policy, something that on balance will work against American purposes in the world.
The special relationship will be decidedly less special as Washington will have no choice but to find other partners in Europe, the Middle East and Asia.
It is impossible to write about Brexit without reflecting on its larger meaning and message.
Many of those voting for Brexit were not voting to set in motion historic trends so much as to send a message of frustration, fear and anger. They succeeded, but at a great cost. It is a lesson for democracies and for institutions, that when they are perceived to be unresponsive or ineffective, people will turn to radical “solutions” that are anything but.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: BennyCake on June 24, 2016, 10:32:32 PM
What worries me is the people in NI who voted Leave. Many of the English voters were duped (imho) whereas voters here... What exactly do they, as someone from Northern Ireland, stand to benefit from? The only argument I've heard from pro-brexit unionists is that it's a "uk-wide issue"; that theyve just done what their idiot politicans have told them to do

I voted Leave. Either way, the ordinary Joe will be shafted. Europe is run by unelected w**kers and member states have to toe the line. EU quotas have destroyed fishing in Ireland (and UK), a country that relies heavily on it. I never thought Leave would win, but now that it has, hopefully the rest will leave, and that can only be a good thing.

Yes, post-Brexit there will be recession, cuts etc - but they've never needed an excuse for that in the past. They'll blame Brexit and make people suffer but they would have done that anyway.
Without quotas there would be no fish.

Without massive trawlers there'd be plenty of fish.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Minder on June 24, 2016, 10:34:26 PM
Are you allowed to express concerns about unchecked immigration without being labelled a racist ?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 24, 2016, 10:35:20 PM
Mrs Cameron's dress was sewn out of 3 Spanish football jerseys
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: LeoMc on June 24, 2016, 10:38:24 PM
What worries me is the people in NI who voted Leave. Many of the English voters were duped (imho) whereas voters here... What exactly do they, as someone from Northern Ireland, stand to benefit from? The only argument I've heard from pro-brexit unionists is that it's a "uk-wide issue"; that theyve just done what their idiot politicans have told them to do

I voted Leave. Either way, the ordinary Joe will be shafted. Europe is run by unelected w**kers and member states have to toe the line. EU quotas have destroyed fishing in Ireland (and UK), a country that relies heavily on it. I never thought Leave would win, but now that it has, hopefully the rest will leave, and that can only be a good thing.

Yes, post-Brexit there will be recession, cuts etc - but they've never needed an excuse for that in the past. They'll blame Brexit and make people suffer but they would have done that anyway.
Without quotas there would be no fish.

Without massive trawlers there'd be plenty of fish.
And massive trawlers are the fault of the EU?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: LeoMc on June 24, 2016, 10:39:29 PM
Are you allowed to express concerns about unchecked immigration without being labelled a racist ?
EU or non EU immigration?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: BennyCake on June 24, 2016, 10:51:26 PM
What worries me is the people in NI who voted Leave. Many of the English voters were duped (imho) whereas voters here... What exactly do they, as someone from Northern Ireland, stand to benefit from? The only argument I've heard from pro-brexit unionists is that it's a "uk-wide issue"; that theyve just done what their idiot politicans have told them to do

I voted Leave. Either way, the ordinary Joe will be shafted. Europe is run by unelected w**kers and member states have to toe the line. EU quotas have destroyed fishing in Ireland (and UK), a country that relies heavily on it. I never thought Leave would win, but now that it has, hopefully the rest will leave, and that can only be a good thing.

Yes, post-Brexit there will be recession, cuts etc - but they've never needed an excuse for that in the past. They'll blame Brexit and make people suffer but they would have done that anyway.
Without quotas there would be no fish.

Without massive trawlers there'd be plenty of fish.
And massive trawlers are the fault of the EU?

Massive trawlers taking massive quotas are.

Local fisherman restricted to measly quotas, while massive foreign trawlers can take what they want in local waters.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 24, 2016, 10:56:05 PM
What worries me is the people in NI who voted Leave. Many of the English voters were duped (imho) whereas voters here... What exactly do they, as someone from Northern Ireland, stand to benefit from? The only argument I've heard from pro-brexit unionists is that it's a "uk-wide issue"; that theyve just done what their idiot politicans have told them to do

I voted Leave. Either way, the ordinary Joe will be shafted. Europe is run by unelected w**kers and member states have to toe the line. EU quotas have destroyed fishing in Ireland (and UK), a country that relies heavily on it. I never thought Leave would win, but now that it has, hopefully the rest will leave, and that can only be a good thing.

Yes, post-Brexit there will be recession, cuts etc - but they've never needed an excuse for that in the past. They'll blame Brexit and make people suffer but they would have done that anyway.
Without quotas there would be no fish.

Without massive trawlers there'd be plenty of fish.
And massive trawlers are the fault of the EU?

Massive trawlers taking massive quotas are.

Local fisherman restricted to measly quotas, while massive foreign trawlers can take what they want in local waters.

But of course this isn't happening in Britain, massive British registered trawlers are taking the bulk of the fish. These may be owned by a limited company, maybe with foreign shareholders, but Boris is not going to restrict this.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Armamike on June 24, 2016, 10:58:33 PM
The lunatics have taken over the asylum.  I wonder how many of the average joes in England who voted for leave really understand the possible impact of this on their pockets.  Who will they blame about the state of the NHS and the lack of jobs in 5 years time?  Big bad EU can't carry the can anymore. Over here, it's going to be a much tougher job for InvestNI to attract investment here now.

Listen to yourselves, the people have voted democratically to exit the EU, quit whinging and finger pointing and accept the decision and move on.

Do you still live and work here Stew?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Minder on June 24, 2016, 11:22:28 PM
Interesting tweet from Ch4 news correspondent

@alextomo Extraordinary watching sections of London media with no language, ability or even will to speak to the millions of non-racists who voted out
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: LeoMc on June 24, 2016, 11:33:37 PM
Interesting tweet from Ch4 news correspondent

@alextomo Extraordinary watching sections of London media with no language, ability or even will to speak to the millions of non-racists who voted out
Its as Benny said earlier, the result is due to 2 generations of people fuck3d over by successive governments. Racism is a very small part of it, resentment of the status quo and a chance to put 2 fingers up to the establishment are the real reasons.
If you have something you voted in.
If you had nothing you voted out.
Too many people have nothing, not even hope.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Tony Baloney on June 24, 2016, 11:36:51 PM
Interesting tweet from Ch4 news correspondent

@alextomo Extraordinary watching sections of London media with no language, ability or even will to speak to the millions of non-racists who voted out
Racist.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Capt Pat on June 24, 2016, 11:43:27 PM
I wonder what else happened in the world today. The sky news website is 100% given over to brexit.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Farrandeelin on June 24, 2016, 11:46:33 PM
Just wondering about Scotland, who calls the shots on whether or not they get another referendum on independence? Westminster I assume. If so, are they going to get one?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 24, 2016, 11:49:56 PM
Interesting tweet from Ch4 news correspondent

@alextomo Extraordinary watching sections of London media with no language, ability or even will to speak to the millions of non-racists who voted out
Its as Benny said earlier, the result is due to 2 generations of people fuck3d over by successive governments. Racism is a very small part of it, resentment of the status quo and a chance to put 2 fingers up to the establishment are the real reasons.
If you have something you voted in.
If you had nothing you voted out.
Too many people have nothing, not even hope.

If that was the case then how did the Tories get in ?? People voted out cause they think the grass will be greener...

 This should sort out unemployment as the dole merchants will be happy to work on the farms, abattoirs, hotels, bars and all those other jobs that hard working immigrants have been doing for past 20 odd years

Privatisation of the NHS is around the corner
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: hardstation on June 24, 2016, 11:53:09 PM
Dole merchants - nice term for people seeking unemployment benefit. Here, but for the grace of God, go I.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Rossfan on June 25, 2016, 12:13:29 AM
Just wondering about Scotland, who calls the shots on whether or not they get another referendum on independence? Westminster I assume. If so, are they going to get one?
I presume the Scottish Parliament can legislate for a referendum within their jurisdiction.
Question is will the London Government acquiesce if the Scots vote for an Independent State.
Will of the people and all that.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 25, 2016, 12:18:17 AM
Dole merchants - nice term for people seeking unemployment benefit. Here, but for the grace of God, go I.

Ok jobseekers, lets be pc about things that suit your agenda and un pc what you think its ok
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: hardstation on June 25, 2016, 12:27:59 AM
Dole merchants - nice term for people seeking unemployment benefit. Here, but for the grace of God, go I.

Ok jobseekers, lets be pc about things that suit your agenda and un pc what you think its ok
Whatever you think yourself. Agenda indeed.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: SkillfulBill on June 25, 2016, 12:30:04 AM
Just wondering about Scotland, who calls the shots on whether or not they get another referendum on independence? Westminster I assume. If so, are they going to get one?
I presume the Scottish Parliament can legislate for a referendum within their jurisdiction.
Question is will the London Government acquiesce if the Scots vote for an Independent State.
Will of the people and all that.

Scottish Parliament can not legislate for a referendum it has to be Westminster. If Westminster refused it would cause a constitional crisis in a democracy without a written constition. Given the bloodbath that will now ensue within the Tory party the likely recession as a result of the brexit vote and the strength of the SNP vote in parliment a refusal would cause a meltdown in British democracy.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: BennyCake on June 25, 2016, 12:56:33 AM
Interesting tweet from Ch4 news correspondent

@alextomo Extraordinary watching sections of London media with no language, ability or even will to speak to the millions of non-racists who voted out
Its as Benny said earlier, the result is due to 2 generations of people fuck3d over by successive governments. Racism is a very small part of it, resentment of the status quo and a chance to put 2 fingers up to the establishment are the real reasons.
If you have something you voted in.
If you had nothing you voted out.
Too many people have nothing, not even hope.

If that was the case then how did the Tories get in ?? People voted out cause they think the grass will be greener...

 This should sort out unemployment as the dole merchants will be happy to work on the farms, abattoirs, hotels, bars and all those other jobs that hard working immigrants have been doing for past 20 odd years

Privatisation of the NHS is around the corner

And who worked in hotels, bars, farms etc before foreign nationals came in?

Privatisation of NHS has been on the cards for decades.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 25, 2016, 01:24:09 AM
Interesting tweet from Ch4 news correspondent

@alextomo Extraordinary watching sections of London media with no language, ability or even will to speak to the millions of non-racists who voted out
Its as Benny said earlier, the result is due to 2 generations of people fuck3d over by successive governments. Racism is a very small part of it, resentment of the status quo and a chance to put 2 fingers up to the establishment are the real reasons.
If you have something you voted in.
If you had nothing you voted out.
Too many people have nothing, not even hope.

If that was the case then how did the Tories get in ?? People voted out cause they think the grass will be greener...

 This should sort out unemployment as the dole merchants will be happy to work on the farms, abattoirs, hotels, bars and all those other jobs that hard working immigrants have been doing for past 20 odd years

Privatisation of the NHS is around the corner

And who worked in hotels, bars, farms etc before foreign nationals came in?

Privatisation of NHS has been on the cards for decades.

People who had to work for a living..... When you can pull moves for decent benefits then why work?

Ok why are the foreign nationals or immigrants (people who come here to work) doing those jobs now?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: SkillfulBill on June 25, 2016, 01:55:26 AM
Interesting tweet from Ch4 news correspondent

@alextomo Extraordinary watching sections of London media with no language, ability or even will to speak to the millions of non-racists who voted out
Its as Benny said earlier, the result is due to 2 generations of people fuck3d over by successive governments. Racism is a very small part of it, resentment of the status quo and a chance to put 2 fingers up to the establishment are the real reasons.
If you have something you voted in.
If you had nothing you voted out.
Too many people have nothing, not even hope.

If that was the case then how did the Tories get in ?? People voted out cause they think the grass will be greener...

 This should sort out unemployment as the dole merchants will be happy to work on the farms, abattoirs, hotels, bars and all those other jobs that hard working immigrants have been doing for past 20 odd years

Privatisation of the NHS is around the corner

And who worked in hotels, bars, farms etc before foreign nationals came in?

Privatisation of NHS has been on the cards for decades.

Paddy and the other immigrants from the empire and people who wanted to avoid the workhouse.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: screenexile on June 25, 2016, 02:34:56 AM
Here it is... if you voted leave you are stupid and probably a racist although these aren't mutually exclusive.

Boris will be our next Prime Minister, Scotland will leave, UK will be a laughing stock on the world stage and once all the big multinationals up sticks and leave you will be begging to get back into the EU y'know if you ever manage to get out of that recession.

The time to make a political statement was the general election not an extremely important referendum that you were too f**king stupid to comprehend which basically boiled down to immigrants bad we good!

In the medium term Ireland are going to gain a lot when these companies leave London and fair play to them. The downside is an Irish company that exports stock to the UK just saw the value of their stock drop by 7% and god knows how much more when the markets realise that BOE statement was bullshit and there really isn't anything they can practically do!

We've been shafted by stupid people who don't know the correct way to show their frustration so they listen to Garage and Boris.... seriously lads look at yourselves!!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: SkillfulBill on June 25, 2016, 03:12:36 AM
At least the French can now sort out their Calais problem now open the gates and help them onto the lorries destination the Un-united Kingdom......
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: mouview on June 25, 2016, 08:38:07 AM
Switzerland do alright. As does Norway, Israel, US, China etc.

You are deluded if you think the UK won't be able to trade with EU members. They're the 5th or 6th biggest economy in the world. They'll work it out!

Immigration is a factor too. Infrastructures can't cope with massive influxes of people; hospitals, doctors, schools etc. Another good reason to get out. Should've happened 10 years ago.

The UK has had billions wiped off it's stock market today that it will never see again.

It will lose all the funding that it got from the EU.

Beggars belief the sheer ignorance out there. When it hits the pocket they'll realise what a stupid decision it was
Ordinary people don't understand how finance works

It was a vote for the uneducated. Unfortunately they were duped by the idiots and fell for it. Huge tranches of the poorest regions in England voted to leave without realising that they will be ever poorer as a result.

The old and the uneducated are to blame

No intelligent individual would vote to leave

That is exactly my point about selective voting!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Asal Mor on June 25, 2016, 08:55:40 AM
I went out for a run this morning. Was enjoying the fresh air, the countryside and my second captains podcast when it was taken over by Brexit talk with a couple of the English guests they had on. All doom and gloom. No place for it on a sports podcast. People worry way too much about money. No one will starve over this.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Nigel White on June 25, 2016, 09:12:02 AM
To be honest I think Boris and his fellow Tory Brexiteers are now shiting themselves. Talk of not rushing into invoking Article 59, period of reflection, wanting to continue to have great relations with European neighbours etc etc. EU on the other hand telling them to get out to fcuk as quick as you can. Scots now see the opportunity to seize the moment and go again for independence on the grounds that one of the biggest factors that arose last time - fear of the unknown - is not now relevant as staying in the Brexit UK is now a bigger leap in the dark than leaving it. I think Boris will try to win further concessions and go for another referendum on the basis of his better deal and preserving the Union
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Rossfan on June 25, 2016, 09:19:27 AM
I think Nigel's first sentence sums it up perfectly.
A real Oh Shit!!!! moment ;D
And Cameron dumps it all on them by saying "I'm off chaps, sort things out yourselves"
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 25, 2016, 09:22:50 AM
Interesting tweet from Ch4 news correspondent

@alextomo Extraordinary watching sections of London media with no language, ability or even will to speak to the millions of non-racists who voted out
Its as Benny said earlier, the result is due to 2 generations of people fuck3d over by successive governments. Racism is a very small part of it, resentment of the status quo and a chance to put 2 fingers up to the establishment are the real reasons.
If you have something you voted in.
If you had nothing you voted out.
Too many people have nothing, not even hope.

If that was the case then how did the Tories get in ?? People voted out cause they think the grass will be greener...

 This should sort out unemployment as the dole merchants will be happy to work on the farms, abattoirs, hotels, bars and all those other jobs that hard working immigrants have been doing for past 20 odd years

Privatisation of the NHS is around the corner
there is no financial incentive to run the NHS . Demand is fucked so there aren't going to be any payrises to cover the escalating costs of cover. I wouldn't go near the NHS with a bargepole if I was running a pension fund or a hedge fund.

Money got involved in nursing homes and lost a fortune
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 25, 2016, 09:24:46 AM
Here it is... if you voted leave you are stupid and probably a racist although these aren't mutually exclusive.

Boris will be our next Prime Minister, Scotland will leave, UK will be a laughing stock on the world stage and once all the big multinationals up sticks and leave you will be begging to get back into the EU y'know if you ever manage to get out of that recession.

The time to make a political statement was the general election not an extremely important referendum that you were too f**king stupid to comprehend which basically boiled down to immigrants bad we good!

In the medium term Ireland are going to gain a lot when these companies leave London and fair play to them. The downside is an Irish company that exports stock to the UK just saw the value of their stock drop by 7% and god knows how much more when the markets realise that BOE statement was bullshit and there really isn't anything they can practically do!

We've been shafted by stupid people who don't know the correct way to show their frustration so they listen to Garage and Boris.... seriously lads look at yourselves!!

I think it is a joke that went too far
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/24/a-pyrrhic-victory-boris-johnson-wakes-up-to-the-costs-of-brexit
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 25, 2016, 09:29:14 AM
I went out for a run this morning. Was enjoying the fresh air, the countryside and my second captains podcast when it was taken over by Brexit talk with a couple of the English guests they had on. All doom and gloom. No place for it on a sports podcast. People worry way too much about money. No one will starve over this.
I dunno asal.
An awful lot of people in the UK already depend on food banks. This is serious shit.
People are dying earlier than they used to. Mental illness incidence is very high.

Every 1% rise in unemployment generates something like 300 extra cancers and 500 suicides in the US
Economic chaos is literally fatal for some people at the poorer end of the income spectrum 
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: AQMP on June 25, 2016, 09:34:19 AM
Yep it's clear Gove and Johnson didn't expect this and they certainly didn't expect Cameron to jump. They banked in Cameron triggering Article 50 and leading the negotiations to leave the EU. Yesterday Gove looked like he'd just been told his entire family were dead. Farage knows he doesn't have to sort anything out and he can just bluff his way in the background.

The irony is that Cameron and Corbyn are Eurosceptics and deep down Boris is a Europhile.  We're going to have the unelected elite in London negotiating with the unelected elite in Brussels.

As for the North, they'll probably have to do away with the Barnett formula, the block grant NI gets is a piece of EU legislation, corporation tax?? The only certainty at the moment is that there is no plan.  I could foresee Boris stringing out the negotiations as long as poss, coming back with a Brexit-lite and either having another referendum in 3 or 4 years time or even just putting it through parliament. How long do you reckon it will take the English working class to work out they've been sold a pup?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 25, 2016, 09:36:10 AM
I think there will be implications for the English premiership as well with the UK out of the single market
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 25, 2016, 09:40:05 AM
Yep it's clear Gove and Johnson didn't expect this and they certainly didn't expect Cameron to jump. They banked in Cameron triggering Article 50 and leading the negotiations to leave the EU. Yesterday Gove looked like he'd just been told his entire family were dead. Farage knows he doesn't have to sort anything out and he can just bluff his way in the background.

The irony is that Cameron and Corbyn are Eurosceptics and deep down Boris is a Europhile.  We're going to have the unelected elite in London negotiating with the unelected elite in Brussels.

As for the North, they'll probably have to do away with the Barnett formula, the block grant NI gets is a piece of EU legislation, corporation tax?? The only certainty at the moment is that there is no plan.  I could foresee Boris stringing out the negotiations as long as poss, coming back with a Brexit-lite and either having another referendum in 3 or 4 years time or even just putting it through parliament. How long do you reckon it will take the English working class to work out they've been sold a pup?
Huge dice were rolled. The aim of the vote was to reunite the Tories but it looks like they join the GOP as another party broken by neoliberalism in its end stage. It is the political equivalent of a tsunami.


J. K. Galbraith:“The conventional wisdom” gives way not so much to new ideas as to “the massive onslaught of circumstances with which it cannot contend”.

I think the biggest thing for me is the poverty of so many parts of England that the vote exposed.
This is going to be politically treacherous in the years ahead

Of those who are forced to choose, some will chose to fight
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Nigel White on June 25, 2016, 09:54:00 AM
Anyone heard from George Osborne in the past 2 days?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: AQMP on June 25, 2016, 09:54:20 AM
Have I woken up in a parallel universe? Paisley Jnr is advising constituents to get an Irish passport!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: AQMP on June 25, 2016, 09:55:04 AM
Anyone heard from George Osborne in the past 2 days?

If I were him I would stay in bed for a fortnight
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: No wides on June 25, 2016, 10:03:32 AM
I think there will be implications for the English premiership as well with the UK out of the single market

Like that is important to anyone.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: BennyCake on June 25, 2016, 10:10:47 AM
I think there will be implications for the English premiership as well with the UK out of the single market

There will be less foreign players then? That's a good thing. More local players might get a chance then. The PL has become saturated with average players from all over the world. Even my own team has become so unrecognisable, I have very little incentive to follow them. Unpronounceable names that drift in and out for a season, and leave no discernible memories for fans.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: AQMP on June 25, 2016, 10:12:22 AM
I saw Brexit MEP Daniel Hannan on Newsnight last night admitting that leaving the EU would not necessarily reduce immigration levels. UKIP's Patrick O'Flynn (yes that is his real name!) was asked on radio yesterday "By how much will immigration come down and by when". His answer "I don't know"
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 25, 2016, 10:23:08 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjUA3RU4B8E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2Qlb0qFLFE
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: general_lee on June 25, 2016, 11:05:40 AM
I think there will be implications for the English premiership as well with the UK out of the single market

There will be less foreign players then? That's a good thing. More local players might get a chance then. The PL has become saturated with average players from all over the world. Even my own team has become so unrecognisable, I have very little incentive to follow them. Unpronounceable names that drift in and out for a season, and leave no discernible memories for fans.
Cantona, Henry, Bergkamp, Ronaldo, Schmeical, Zola, Ginola, Fabregas, etc etc
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Nigel White on June 25, 2016, 11:16:42 AM
I think there will be implications for the English premiership as well with the UK out of the single market

Like that is important to anyone.
Mind you, in fairness had it been raised as an issue with the brain deads of England before the vote, it probably could have swung it in favour of remain!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: BennyCake on June 25, 2016, 11:52:34 AM
I think there will be implications for the English premiership as well with the UK out of the single market

There will be less foreign players then? That's a good thing. More local players might get a chance then. The PL has become saturated with average players from all over the world. Even my own team has become so unrecognisable, I have very little incentive to follow them. Unpronounceable names that drift in and out for a season, and leave no discernible memories for fans.
Cantona, Henry, Bergkamp, Ronaldo, Schmeical, Zola, Ginola, Fabregas, etc etc

Djemba-Djemba, Taibi, Diouf, Diao, Silenzi, Alaves, Kleberson, Kezman, Brolin, Macheda etc etc
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Farrandeelin on June 25, 2016, 11:55:23 AM
They're not that unpronouncable...
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 25, 2016, 12:13:21 PM
One million signatures for a second vote.

BTW the DUP are odious.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Nigel White on June 25, 2016, 12:28:15 PM
The one reason I hope there's a re run is to rub wee Jeffrey's fruity nose in it. He was on RTE radio yesterday bragging about UK democracy and the fact that unlike the ROI when we run a referendum we accept the outcome regardless of whether we like it or not  unlike you who simply change the wording and run it again until you get the result you want
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Armamike on June 25, 2016, 12:28:47 PM
Here it is... if you voted leave you are stupid and probably a racist although these aren't mutually exclusive.

Boris will be our next Prime Minister, Scotland will leave, UK will be a laughing stock on the world stage and once all the big multinationals up sticks and leave you will be begging to get back into the EU y'know if you ever manage to get out of that recession.

The time to make a political statement was the general election not an extremely important referendum that you were too f**king stupid to comprehend which basically boiled down to immigrants bad we good!

In the medium term Ireland are going to gain a lot when these companies leave London and fair play to them. The downside is an Irish company that exports stock to the UK just saw the value of their stock drop by 7% and god knows how much more when the markets realise that BOE statement was bullshit and there really isn't anything they can practically do!

We've been shafted by stupid people who don't know the correct way to show their frustration so they listen to Garage and Boris....

In a nutshell.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: BennyCake on June 25, 2016, 12:33:24 PM
One million signatures for a second vote.

BTW the DUP are odious.

It's like the flag protests all over again. Don't like a result so let's do it again and again until we get the 'right' answer. Democracy, eh?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Nigel White on June 25, 2016, 12:37:06 PM
Here it is... if you voted leave you are stupid and probably a racist although these aren't mutually exclusive.

Boris will be our next Prime Minister, Scotland will leave, UK will be a laughing stock on the world stage and once all the big multinationals up sticks and leave you will be begging to get back into the EU y'know if you ever manage to get out of that recession.

The time to make a political statement was the general election not an extremely important referendum that you were too f**king stupid to comprehend which basically boiled down to immigrants bad we good!

In the medium term Ireland are going to gain a lot when these companies leave London and fair play to them. The downside is an Irish company that exports stock to the UK just saw the value of their stock drop by 7% and god knows how much more when the markets realise that BOE statement was bullshit and there really isn't anything they can practically do!

We've been shafted by stupid people who don't know the correct way to show their frustration so they listen to Garage and Boris....

In a nutshell.
Just to add to that, when they do eventually come running back to rejoin, assuming that they do actually leave, they won't get in unless they join the Euro
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Nigel White on June 25, 2016, 12:41:03 PM
Hopefully by about half seven tonight Norn Iron will be out of Europe in every sense of the word
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Armamike on June 25, 2016, 12:44:09 PM
One million signatures for a second vote.

BTW the DUP are odious.

The DUP it seems would rather row in with the more extreme viewpoints in England than look after the interests of their home patch.  The problem for us locally is that we've politicians who aren't equipped to make decisions to improve people's lives here.  What possibly can the north gain from being out of the EU?  Better funding for farmers?  Probably not (won't be top of the list of priorities for the powers that be in London).  Easier access to the south  and other markets in Europe. No. Foreign Direct Investment? No.  Lower migration?  Possibly, but not for definite.  Chances are though there'll be fewer workers wanting to come here anywhere as the economy worsens. Improved health service?  We'll see.  More international students to our universities?  No, with the abolition of domestic fees for EU students why should French or German students enrol here and pay 3 times what they're paying now?  Less EU red tape for small business? Yes, but we'll still have our own red tape and plenty of it.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 25, 2016, 12:46:05 PM
How would the Bel Tel come up with a coherent editorial today when half the readers are rabid leave DUP and the other half are pro EU?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: stiffler on June 25, 2016, 12:49:28 PM
Looking forward to the FREXIT tomorrow.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Armamike on June 25, 2016, 12:55:29 PM
One million signatures for a second vote.

BTW the DUP are odious.

It's like the flag protests all over again. Don't like a result so let's do it again and again until we get the 'right' answer. Democracy, eh?

Benny, we've had to listen to Euro sceptics, little Englanders and the likes for the past 20-30 years bleat on about Europe and how it's been the root of all problems and but for Europe all would be right in the land of blighty. The infighting in the tory party and the scaremongering by the likes of Farage, the Mail and other media has brought us to this point.  The remain folk are entitled to voice their concerns for a day or 2!  Unlike the euro moaners though, they'll probably get on with it in the weeks and months to come and not look to others to blame for their own inadequacies.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 25, 2016, 12:58:55 PM
I went out for a run this morning. Was enjoying the fresh air, the countryside and my second captains podcast when it was taken over by Brexit talk with a couple of the English guests they had on. All doom and gloom. No place for it on a sports podcast. People worry way too much about money. No one will starve over this.
I dunno asal.
An awful lot of people in the UK already depend on food banks. This is serious shit.
People are dying earlier than they used to. Mental illness incidence is very high.

Every 1% rise in unemployment generates something like 300 extra cancers and 500 suicides in the US
Economic chaos is literally fatal for some people at the poorer end of the income spectrum

Do you just make this stuff up?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35550407
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Nigel White on June 25, 2016, 01:04:24 PM
Right it's time to set aside this negativity and look for opportunities. I'm 55 and will be retiring with a generous Civil Service lump sum and pension. I think I'll be using a bit of it to buy  a couple of sows and a transit and make me self a few quid on the border
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 25, 2016, 01:05:43 PM
I went out for a run this morning. Was enjoying the fresh air, the countryside and my second captains podcast when it was taken over by Brexit talk with a couple of the English guests they had on. All doom and gloom. No place for it on a sports podcast. People worry way too much about money. No one will starve over this.
I dunno asal.
An awful lot of people in the UK already depend on food banks. This is serious shit.
People are dying earlier than they used to. Mental illness incidence is very high.

Every 1% rise in unemployment generates something like 300 extra cancers and 500 suicides in the US
Economic chaos is literally fatal for some people at the poorer end of the income spectrum

Do you just make this stuff up?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35550407

North East lower life expectancy...
2 areas in Glasgow have a 19 year difference in life expectancy.  Poverty kills.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 25, 2016, 01:07:31 PM
I have to say I don't like the Irish Times line that Europe is grand. Who stuffed Joe public with the cost of the Anglo meltdown?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 25, 2016, 01:14:34 PM
Regions exporting most to the EU were more likely to vote Leave #wtf
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Nigel White on June 25, 2016, 01:17:11 PM
Just another thought, while the UK and Ireland appear to be prepared to seek an amicable and pragmatic solution to the border issue, I'm not sure those two adjectives will be required when describing the future Spain/Gibraltar border negotiations
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: stiffler on June 25, 2016, 01:35:39 PM
Surely the FM in the North has a duty to protect the wishes of the majority who wish to stay in the EU.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 25, 2016, 01:40:11 PM
Spin will be pragmatic  in relation to Gibraltar they'll only use cheap wire for the fence and not bother with a wall
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 25, 2016, 01:55:29 PM
I went out for a run this morning. Was enjoying the fresh air, the countryside and my second captains podcast when it was taken over by Brexit talk with a couple of the English guests they had on. All doom and gloom. No place for it on a sports podcast. People worry way too much about money. No one will starve over this.
I dunno asal.
An awful lot of people in the UK already depend on food banks. This is serious shit.
People are dying earlier than they used to. Mental illness incidence is very high.

Every 1% rise in unemployment generates something like 300 extra cancers and 500 suicides in the US
Economic chaos is literally fatal for some people at the poorer end of the income spectrum

Do you just make this stuff up?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35550407

North East lower life expectancy...
2 areas in Glasgow have a 19 year difference in life expectancy.  Poverty kills.

You said an awful lot... Which isn't the case.... People are living longer full stop, poverty or not, still living far longer than our grandparents and that's a fact
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: muppet on June 25, 2016, 02:01:22 PM
I have to say I don't like the Irish Times line that Europe is grand. Who stuffed Joe public with the cost of the Anglo meltdown?

The people who brought us the Bank Guarantee. Cowan and Lenihan specifically.

You know this better than most here, so please stop doing a Nigel Farage or Donald Trump on it.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: HiMucker on June 25, 2016, 02:10:20 PM
I have to say I don't like the Irish Times line that Europe is grand. Who stuffed Joe public with the cost of the Anglo meltdown?

The people who brought us the Bank Guarantee. Cowan and Lenihan specifically.

You know this better than most here, so please stop doing a Nigel Farage or Donald Trump on it.
Agreed.  David mc Williams strongly advised them against it.  We then saw an influx of billions in to our banks.  We have plenty of our own turkeys over here voting for Christmas  as well.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Rois on June 25, 2016, 03:16:02 PM
Surely the FM in the North has a duty to protect the wishes of the majority who wish to stay in the EU.
You'd think. But Arlene hasn't actually acknowledged us.
We'll try to get on with it, but I'm relying on the Irish government to fight our corner as well as the south's, as we have politicians who are completely inept at representing us in such complicated issues on the big things that matter.
I work in mergers and acquisitions, and my future short and medium term career is so uncertain because of this, but London interests should help fight my corner professionally. Personally, I need Enda and Arlene. That part is scary.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: redzone on June 25, 2016, 03:56:35 PM
Would they not have to sign papers to get out, same as a you would to get in. Surely that hasn't happened yet
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 25, 2016, 04:02:31 PM
I have to say I don't like the Irish Times line that Europe is grand. Who stuffed Joe public with the cost of the Anglo meltdown?

The people who brought us the Bank Guarantee. Cowan and Lenihan specifically.

You know this better than most here, so please stop doing a Nigel Farage or Donald Trump on it.
FF sure Muppet but you know how inept the EZ response was in autumn 2008 and 2009. How long did it take the ECB to get QE going?  The Anglo stitch up happened 2 years after the meltdown. The Irish "bailout" was panicky and extremely expensive and never repeated. Cyprus was even wrose. . FF didn't design the EZ  . It doesn't have a lender of last resort or deposit insurance. Reglung told the Inquiry the goons who designed it didn't expect a crisis of the magnitude that occurred.  The EU also bears responsibility for the brexit clusterfuck. People in Sunderland and Hull saw what happened in Greece. Brexit is 2 fingers to useless technocrats in the UK and Frankfurt.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 25, 2016, 04:03:53 PM
I went out for a run this morning. Was enjoying the fresh air, the countryside and my second captains podcast when it was taken over by Brexit talk with a couple of the English guests they had on. All doom and gloom. No place for it on a sports podcast. People worry way too much about money. No one will starve over this.
I dunno asal.
An awful lot of people in the UK already depend on food banks. This is serious shit.
People are dying earlier than they used to. Mental illness incidence is very high.

Every 1% rise in unemployment generates something like 300 extra cancers and 500 suicides in the US
Economic chaos is literally fatal for some people at the poorer end of the income spectrum

Do you just make this stuff up?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35550407

North East lower life expectancy...
2 areas in Glasgow have a 19 year difference in life expectancy.  Poverty kills.

You said an awful lot... Which isn't the case.... People are living longer full stop, poverty or not, still living far longer than our grandparents and that's a fact
A lot of people are MR but the poorest people are not.
You can Google Case and Deaton for the picture from the US.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 25, 2016, 05:50:03 PM
Spin will be pragmatic  in relation to Gibraltar they'll only use cheap wire for the fence and not bother with a wall
Gibraltar is a kip
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: No wides on June 25, 2016, 05:56:33 PM
One million signatures for a second vote.

BTW the DUP are odious.

2 million now completely pointless.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Minder on June 25, 2016, 05:59:11 PM
I went out for a run this morning. Was enjoying the fresh air, the countryside and my second captains podcast when it was taken over by Brexit talk with a couple of the English guests they had on. All doom and gloom. No place for it on a sports podcast. People worry way too much about money. No one will starve over this.
I dunno asal.
An awful lot of people in the UK already depend on food banks. This is serious shit.
People are dying earlier than they used to. Mental illness incidence is very high.

Every 1% rise in unemployment generates something like 300 extra cancers and 500 suicides in the US
Economic chaos is literally fatal for some people at the poorer end of the income spectrum

Do you just make this stuff up?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35550407

North East lower life expectancy...
2 areas in Glasgow have a 19 year difference in life expectancy.  Poverty kills.

You said an awful lot... Which isn't the case.... People are living longer full stop, poverty or not, still living far longer than our grandparents and that's a fact
A lot of people are MR but the poorest people are not.
You can Google Case and Deaton for the picture from the US.

The states is a totally different argument, with no universal healthcare
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 25, 2016, 06:08:33 PM
The mayor of Calais has said the town will stop screenIng refugees and that all border controls will take place in England.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: No wides on June 25, 2016, 06:11:30 PM
The mayor of Calais has said the town will stop screenIng refugees and that all border controls will take place in England.

Doubt that is her call.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 25, 2016, 06:12:19 PM
I went out for a run this morning. Was enjoying the fresh air, the countryside and my second captains podcast when it was taken over by Brexit talk with a couple of the English guests they had on. All doom and gloom. No place for it on a sports podcast. People worry way too much about money. No one will starve over this.
I dunno asal.
An awful lot of people in the UK already depend on food banks. This is serious shit.
People are dying earlier than they used to. Mental illness incidence is very high.

Every 1% rise in unemployment generates something like 300 extra cancers and 500 suicides in the US
Economic chaos is literally fatal for some people at the poorer end of the income spectrum

Do you just make this stuff up?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35550407

North East lower life expectancy...
2 areas in Glasgow have a 19 year difference in life expectancy.  Poverty kills.

You said an awful lot... Which isn't the case.... People are living longer full stop, poverty or not, still living far longer than our grandparents and that's a fact
A lot of people are MR but the poorest people are not.
You can Google Case and Deaton for the picture from the US.

The states is a totally different argument, with no universal healthcare
The shafting of communities and the descent into hopelessness is the same. Life expectancy differentials are widening .
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 25, 2016, 06:42:53 PM
Listen to yourselves, the people have voted democratically to exit the EU, quit whinging and finger pointing and accept the decision and move on.

I'll quote you on that when Hillary gets sworn in as President.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 25, 2016, 06:48:09 PM
Dole merchants - nice term for people seeking unemployment benefit. Here, but for the grace of God, go I.

Ok jobseekers, lets be pc about things that suit your agenda and un pc what you think its ok

When I lived in Salford I had daily encounters with the long term unemployed. I think "dole merchants" is a better term than "job seekers" because these people had no intention of working. Probably had several generations of family with no history of working, only watching TV, knocking about town, harassing students, fighting, drinking, and getting involved in crime. I know unemployment benefit is needed for people who are temporarily between jobs, but the people who don't want to work do exist, and they exist in big numbers.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 25, 2016, 07:23:24 PM
The mayor of Calais has said the town will stop screenIng refugees and that all border controls will take place in England.

Doubt that is her call.
The French are probably going to put the boot in. Democracy is about giving the people what they want, good and hard.

Www.mailonline.co.uk is fascinating.
Small minded England.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 25, 2016, 07:26:51 PM
The ex mining towns all voted Brexit
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Bazil Douglas on June 25, 2016, 07:39:23 PM




When I lived in Salford I had daily encounters with the long term unemployed. I think "dole merchants" is a better term than "job seekers" because these people had no intention of working. Probably had several generations of family with no history of working, only watching TV, knocking about town, harassing students, fighting, drinking, and getting involved in crime. I know unemployment benefit is needed for people who are temporarily between jobs, but the people who don't want to work do exist, and they exist in big numbers.
[/quote
You don't have to go to Salford to find that type, quite a few here in Northern Ireland and they're not immigrants.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: foxcommander on June 25, 2016, 08:03:48 PM
Not surprised with the brexit - it's a protest reaction to illegal immigration. Maybe now the EU will change their policy to stop any more states from voting the same way.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: bennydorano on June 25, 2016, 08:14:21 PM
What policy would that be?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 25, 2016, 08:29:18 PM
87% of farm income in NI comes from the EU.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: No wides on June 25, 2016, 08:58:06 PM
Not surprised with the brexit - it's a protest reaction to illegal immigration. Maybe now the EU will change their policy to stop any more states from voting the same way.

It is a protest vote, Farage aside - I doubt anyone expected it or wanted it, I see China is laughing at how democracy works.  :)
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Harold Disgracey on June 25, 2016, 09:18:26 PM
Turnout % of each age group
18-24: 36%
25-34: 58%
35-44: 72%
45-54: 75%
55-64: 81%
65+: 83%

Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: No wides on June 25, 2016, 09:48:41 PM
There you have it the young can blame their apathy now instead of the grey vote.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: foxcommander on June 25, 2016, 09:53:41 PM
What policy would that be?
Not protecting their borders and keeping people out.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: foxcommander on June 25, 2016, 09:58:49 PM
There you have it the young can blame their apathy now instead of the grey vote.

I've seen such morons bleating on facebook and the like about how their generations voice wasn't heard. and they didn't turn up to vote. PMSL.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: grounded on June 25, 2016, 10:02:35 PM
87% of farm income in NI comes from the EU.

Knowing this I was quite surprised by how pro brexit a lot of farmers were. http://m.farminglife.com/news/farming-news/farmers-favour-brexit-in-straw-poll-1-7425519

Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: StGallsGAA on June 25, 2016, 10:06:26 PM
Quote
Not surprised with the brexit - it's a protest reaction to illegal immigration. Maybe now the EU will change their policy to stop any more states from voting the same way.

Illegal immigration largely brought about by the successive British and US governments making  North-African and Middle East communities economically uninhabitable by creating war-zones, killing thousands and displacing millions. Now the war-monger attempts to shut its border leaving the EU to deal with its folly.  May the families of Bush, Obama, Blair and Cameron suffer the same fate they dealt on other families.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Harold Disgracey on June 25, 2016, 10:16:23 PM
Funnily enough the areas with the highest immigration mostly voted remain!

http://gu.com/p/4mk58/sbl

Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 25, 2016, 10:50:48 PM
Quote
Not surprised with the brexit - it's a protest reaction to illegal immigration. Maybe now the EU will change their policy to stop any more states from voting the same way.

Illegal immigration largely brought about by the successive British and US governments making  North-African and Middle East communities economically uninhabitable by creating war-zones, killing thousands and displacing millions. Now the war-monger attempts to shut its border leaving the EU to deal with its folly.  May the families of Bush, Obama, Blair and Cameron suffer the same fate they dealt on other families.

Immigration is a key neoliberal policy. It drives wages down and means more profit for the rich
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 25, 2016, 11:02:55 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3658316/Pinch-dreaming-s-day-Britain-stood-proud-tall-reclaimed-birthright.html
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 25, 2016, 11:11:04 PM
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/24/david-cameron-downfall-european-tragedy
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 25, 2016, 11:23:50 PM
http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/06/25/from-brexit-to-trump/
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on June 26, 2016, 01:10:49 AM
Have I woken up in a parallel universe? Paisley Jnr is advising constituents to get an Irish passport!

Lundy!

Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: No wides on June 26, 2016, 08:27:06 AM
Sold a pup looks like Boris didn't want it just played exit for political gain.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 26, 2016, 09:16:47 AM
Quote
Not surprised with the brexit - it's a protest reaction to illegal immigration. Maybe now the EU will change their policy to stop any more states from voting the same way.

Illegal immigration largely brought about by the successive British and US governments making  North-African and Middle East communities economically uninhabitable by creating war-zones, killing thousands and displacing millions. Now the war-monger attempts to shut its border leaving the EU to deal with its folly.  May the families of Bush, Obama, Blair and Cameron suffer the same fate they dealt on other families.

Immigration is a key neoliberal policy. It drives wages down and means more profit for the rich

There is minimum wage in place, that includes immigrants too.... The amount of illegal immigrants that are underpaid isn't that as much as you'd imagine
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 26, 2016, 10:34:28 AM
Quote
Not surprised with the brexit - it's a protest reaction to illegal immigration. Maybe now the EU will change their policy to stop any more states from voting the same way.

Illegal immigration largely brought about by the successive British and US governments making  North-African and Middle East communities economically uninhabitable by creating war-zones, killing thousands and displacing millions. Now the war-monger attempts to shut its border leaving the EU to deal with its folly.  May the families of Bush, Obama, Blair and Cameron suffer the same fate they dealt on other families.

Immigration is a key neoliberal policy. It drives wages down and means more profit for the rich

There is minimum wage in place, that includes immigrants too.... The amount of illegal immigrants that are underpaid isn't that as much as you'd imagine
Sports Direct don't pay it. Gang masters don't eit8hrr
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: imtommygunn on June 26, 2016, 10:56:32 AM
Looks like the labour party imploding now too. I wonder do they smell another general election and think another leader may have a good crack at it.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: imtommygunn on June 26, 2016, 11:00:38 AM
Plus seafoid sports direct effectively paid below the minimum wage but didn't pay beneath it. It was their searches etc were brought into calculations by media. The wage was 6.70.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 26, 2016, 11:19:59 AM
Looks like the labour party imploding now too. I wonder do they smell another general election and think another leader may have a good crack at it.
If they were organised they could break the Tories
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: washed_up on June 26, 2016, 11:22:47 AM
we will all be broke before the cons are!!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 26, 2016, 11:25:48 AM
Gove and Johnson lied to the schmucks who voted leave. There is no money for the NHS . They can't stop immigration.
We are living in very volatile times.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: SkillfulBill on June 26, 2016, 11:53:00 AM
Its now looking like they need the agreement of Scotland and possibly NI parliments consent. The UK is heading for an implosion on this. You couldnt make this stuff up.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 26, 2016, 12:10:36 PM
Leave was an English and Welsh thing. 
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on June 26, 2016, 12:37:53 PM
There will be great difficulty enforcing this result.  Nevermind the potential veto that Scotland and NI  have, there is a real constitutional problem about forcing it through.  By announcing his resignation and delaying the invoking of Art 50 Cameron has created a real political vacuum.  I genuinely think this was a deliberate tactic for his own political gain.  He fully expected a remain vote and this would have seen him being the man who gave people the vote for choice and they made the choice.  He would walk out the next morning and be seen as a real leader and statesman in Europe and at home.  UKs position in the EU would be solidified and he would have a mandate to push through his policies. 

By walking away and giving a few months before the Art 50 is invoked he now has created a situation where there will be an inevitable backlash against the result and potential ramifications of it.  The potential leaders of the Tory party, BJ, Gove et al, will be left with a real poison chalice of risking pushing through the removal of the Britain from the EU and the possible breakup of Britain with Sturgeon pushing another independence vote(with a fair chance of a win) and the basket case of ourselves and whatever happens here.   The reality is that for the PM to resign he actually needs the consent of the Queen.  While this is generally a formality this is a completely unusual situation and the Queen to actually invoke her constitutional authority 'for the greater good' of Britain and not accept it.  What better British rally cry for the gullible masses to follow than Lizzie II?  Cameron 'reluctantly' regains his position and then says that for the greater good and to retain stability he stays in position and renegotiates a deal with EU to change Britains position within the EU to allow it to have greater control over its own laws yet still remain a part of the EU.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: bennydorano on June 26, 2016, 12:39:44 PM
Its now looking like they need the agreement of Scotland and possibly NI parliments consent. The UK is heading for an implosion on this. You couldnt make this stuff up.
Eh? Where have you pulled that from? Westminster is the daddy.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: muppet on June 26, 2016, 12:41:33 PM
Quote
Not surprised with the brexit - it's a protest reaction to illegal immigration. Maybe now the EU will change their policy to stop any more states from voting the same way.

Illegal immigration largely brought about by the successive British and US governments making  North-African and Middle East communities economically uninhabitable by creating war-zones, killing thousands and displacing millions. Now the war-monger attempts to shut its border leaving the EU to deal with its folly.  May the families of Bush, Obama, Blair and Cameron suffer the same fate they dealt on other families.

Immigration is a key neoliberal policy. It drives wages down and means more profit for the rich

Yes, as practiced by the Romans, Egyptians & Ancient Greeks, the neoliberal b**tards.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: grounded on June 26, 2016, 12:48:45 PM
Jean Claude says BREXIT will not be an amicable divorce!
Good old Jean Claude  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPgiI46FCDU

Cant believe the public elects these guys... eh wait a minute
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 26, 2016, 12:57:09 PM
Unlimited debt
unlimited immigration
unlimited wealth for the richest

That is the current economic system
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: muppet on June 26, 2016, 01:00:01 PM
I am beginning to be convinced there will be another vote. But one of the problems is that Britain has very few friends in Europe and some people will relish evicting them. I think in a month or two that feeling will recede.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: SkillfulBill on June 26, 2016, 01:13:54 PM
Its now looking like they need the agreement of Scotland and possibly NI parliments consent. The UK is heading for an implosion on this. You couldnt make this stuff up.
Eh? Where have you pulled that from? Westminster is the daddy.

Sturgon has pulled it out of her back pocket. Part of the set up of the scottish parliment. To over turn requires westminster to with draw powers back to London.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: grounded on June 26, 2016, 01:14:14 PM
NEXIT.......last one out gets Greece.

In all seriousness given the result of the referendum, will other European Union countries follow? Will it bring a halt to the drive for the political unification of Europe? Really we are in unchartered and very dangerous water.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: screenexile on June 26, 2016, 01:17:49 PM
What a great result for the fine people who supported leaving . . .

Here's what some of these lovely folk have been up to the past few days:

https://www.twitter.com/postrefracism
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: bennydorano on June 26, 2016, 01:51:38 PM
Nicola Sturgeon says MSPs at Holyrood could veto Brexit - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36633244

Overplaying her hand I would imagine.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 26, 2016, 02:17:42 PM
I am beginning to be convinced there will be another vote. But one of the problems is that Britain has very few friends in Europe and some people will relish evicting them. I think in a month or two that feeling will recede.
I think you are right. The Brexit campaign was mendacious.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 26, 2016, 02:22:44 PM
Nicola Sturgeon says MSPs at Holyrood could veto Brexit - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36633244

Overplaying her hand I would imagine.
Not necessarily . Nobody knows what will happen.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 26, 2016, 02:25:33 PM
Nicola Sturgeon says MSPs at Holyrood could veto Brexit - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36633244

Overplaying her hand I would imagine.

Still, a bit like Dev delaying the legalities of Edward VIII abdicating, she is making the most of what power she has. 
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: imtommygunn on June 26, 2016, 02:25:54 PM
The frustrating thing about that is foster could speak up too but won't. Their campaign failed in ni to a 12 % majority and they are that deluded they've been patting themselves on the back.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 26, 2016, 02:56:23 PM
The frustrating thing about that is foster could speak up too but won't. Their campaign failed in ni to a 12 % majority and they are that deluded they've been patting themselves on the back.
56% must include a good few protestants.
Any Protestant farmer who voted leave must have wanted penury
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: SkillfulBill on June 26, 2016, 02:59:17 PM
The frustrating thing about that is foster could speak up too but won't. Their campaign failed in ni to a 12 % majority and they are that deluded they've been patting themselves on the back.

Wouldnt matter what Foster says. If it requires NI consent she doesnt have the numbers. Even if she could muster up the UUP. SF and SDLP can block it with a petition of concern. The way around it is westminster taking back powers from both storment and holyrood which would be mana from heaven for independence movements.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 26, 2016, 03:05:54 PM
The frustrating thing about that is foster could speak up too but won't. Their campaign failed in ni to a 12 % majority and they are that deluded they've been patting themselves on the back.

I suspect robinson wouldn't have suipport Brexit in the first place and would have been willing to articulate NIs economic interests after this vote.

what is needed is a campaign to manifest this majority in distinct arrangements for NI which minimise the the damage. I'm not sure who can lead this?

Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: dferg on June 26, 2016, 03:16:58 PM
The UK pays 350 million per week as part of running the EU, it will be interesting to see how the EU plug that hole in there finance if the UK does leave.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: imtommygunn on June 26, 2016, 03:18:28 PM
How much do they get back though?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: muppet on June 26, 2016, 03:20:28 PM
The UK pays 350 million per week as part of running the EU, it will be interesting to see how the EU plug that hole in there finance if the UK does leave.

It is 11 million per week.  :o :o

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/ (https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/)

Most of the contribution goes back to farmers and disadvantaged areas in the UK.

It will be interesting to see how London plugs that hole.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: dferg on June 26, 2016, 03:24:49 PM
The UK pays 350 million per week as part of running the EU, it will be interesting to see how the EU plug that hole in there finance if the UK does leave.

It is 11 million per week.  :o :o

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/ (https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/)

Most of the contribution goes back to farmers and disadvantaged areas in the UK.

It will be interesting to see how London plugs that hole.
I read thst article. Where do you get 11 million per week from?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: muppet on June 26, 2016, 03:26:55 PM
The UK pays 350 million per week as part of running the EU, it will be interesting to see how the EU plug that hole in there finance if the UK does leave.

It is 11 million per week.  :o :o

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/ (https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/)

Most of the contribution goes back to farmers and disadvantaged areas in the UK.

It will be interesting to see how London plugs that hole.

I read thst article. Where do you get 11 million per week from?


I did what you did.

Pulled a number out of my arse.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: dferg on June 26, 2016, 03:30:14 PM
The UK pays 350 million per week as part of running the EU, it will be interesting to see how the EU plug that hole in there finance if the UK does leave.

It is 11 million per week.  :o :o

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/ (https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/)

Most of the contribution goes back to farmers and disadvantaged areas in the UK.

It will be interesting to see how London plugs that hole.

I did what you did.

Pulled a number out of my arse.
I read thst article. Where do you get 11 million per week from?
No i didn't do what you did. I googled the cost.  You are just being silly.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: muppet on June 26, 2016, 03:32:54 PM
The UK pays 350 million per week as part of running the EU, it will be interesting to see how the EU plug that hole in there finance if the UK does leave.

It is 11 million per week.  :o :o

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/ (https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/)

Most of the contribution goes back to farmers and disadvantaged areas in the UK.

It will be interesting to see how London plugs that hole.

I did what you did.

Pulled a number out of my arse.
I read thst article. Where do you get 11 million per week from?
No i didn't do what you did. I googled the cost.  You are just being silly.

Yes you did!

You admitted you read the article which explains, right at the start, that Britain doesn't pay £18bn a year (your £350m * 52 weeks). But you pretended you hadn't read it and posted the anti-intellectual rant anyway.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: dferg on June 26, 2016, 03:43:44 PM
The UK pays 350 million per week as part of running the EU, it will be interesting to see how the EU plug that hole in there finance if the UK does leave.

It is 11 million per week.  :o :o

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/ (https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/)

Most of the contribution goes back to farmers and disadvantaged areas in the UK.

It will be interesting to see how London plugs that hole.

I did what you did.

Pulled a number out of my arse.
I read thst article. Where do you get 11 million per week from?
No i didn't do what you did. I googled the cost.  You are just being silly.

Yes you did!

You admitted you read the article which explains, right at the start, that Britain doesn't pay £18bn a year (your £350m * 52 weeks). But you pretended you hadn't read it and posted the anti-intellectual rant anyway.

I posted 30 words.  It was hardly a rant.

I didn't pretend anything, I said I read the article.  The UK pay a lot of money into the EU every year which will leave a huge hole in there finance if the UK leave.

Stick to your crap[tion] competition if you can't argue without being facetious.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: muppet on June 26, 2016, 03:45:28 PM
The UK pays 350 million per week as part of running the EU, it will be interesting to see how the EU plug that hole in there finance if the UK does leave.

It is 11 million per week.  :o :o

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/ (https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/)

Most of the contribution goes back to farmers and disadvantaged areas in the UK.

It will be interesting to see how London plugs that hole.

I did what you did.

Pulled a number out of my arse.
I read thst article. Where do you get 11 million per week from?
No i didn't do what you did. I googled the cost.  You are just being silly.

Yes you did!

You admitted you read the article which explains, right at the start, that Britain doesn't pay £18bn a year (your £350m * 52 weeks). But you pretended you hadn't read it and posted the anti-intellectual rant anyway.

I posted 30 words.  It was hardly a rant.

I didn't pretend anything, I said I read the article.  The UK pay a lot of money into the EU every year which will leave a huge hole in there finance if the UK leave.

Stick to your crap[tion] competition if you can't argue without being facetious.

This is one of the first 10 lines of the article you said you read:

"The UK doesn’t pay or "send to Brussels" this higher figure of £18 billion, or anything equivalent per week or per day. The rebate is applied straight away, so the UK never contributes this much."

And you accuse me of being facetious.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: dferg on June 26, 2016, 03:51:08 PM
The UK pays 350 million per week as part of running the EU, it will be interesting to see how the EU plug that hole in there finance if the UK does leave.

It is 11 million per week.  :o :o

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/ (https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/)

Most of the contribution goes back to farmers and disadvantaged areas in the UK.

It will be interesting to see how London plugs that hole.

I did what you did.

Pulled a number out of my arse.
I read thst article. Where do you get 11 million per week from?
No i didn't do what you did. I googled the cost.  You are just being silly.

Yes you did!

You admitted you read the article which explains, right at the start, that Britain doesn't pay £18bn a year (your £350m * 52 weeks). But you pretended you hadn't read it and posted the anti-intellectual rant anyway.

I posted 30 words.  It was hardly a rant.

I didn't pretend anything, I said I read the article.  The UK pay a lot of money into the EU every year which will leave a huge hole in there finance if the UK leave.

Stick to your crap[tion] competition if you can't argue without being facetious.

This is one of the first 10 lines of the article you said you read:

"The UK doesn’t pay or "send to Brussels" this higher figure of £18 billion, or anything equivalent per week or per day. The rebate is applied straight away, so the UK never contributes this much."

And you accuse me of being facetious.  ;D ;D ;D
I read the article.  It said they paid in 350 million per week.  If you want to say they get X amount of this back and being in the EU also brings Y jobs etc. fair enough.  It doesn't change the fact that the UK leaving the EU will leave a huge hole in the EU finances.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: muppet on June 26, 2016, 03:53:56 PM
The UK pays 350 million per week as part of running the EU, it will be interesting to see how the EU plug that hole in there finance if the UK does leave.

It is 11 million per week.  :o :o

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/ (https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/)

Most of the contribution goes back to farmers and disadvantaged areas in the UK.

It will be interesting to see how London plugs that hole.

I did what you did.

Pulled a number out of my arse.
I read thst article. Where do you get 11 million per week from?
No i didn't do what you did. I googled the cost.  You are just being silly.

Yes you did!

You admitted you read the article which explains, right at the start, that Britain doesn't pay £18bn a year (your £350m * 52 weeks). But you pretended you hadn't read it and posted the anti-intellectual rant anyway.

I posted 30 words.  It was hardly a rant.

I didn't pretend anything, I said I read the article.  The UK pay a lot of money into the EU every year which will leave a huge hole in there finance if the UK leave.

Stick to your crap[tion] competition if you can't argue without being facetious.

This is one of the first 10 lines of the article you said you read:

"The UK doesn’t pay or "send to Brussels" this higher figure of £18 billion, or anything equivalent per week or per day. The rebate is applied straight away, so the UK never contributes this much."

And you accuse me of being facetious.  ;D ;D ;D
I read the article. It said they paid in 350 million per week.  If you want to say they get X amount of this back and being in the EU also brings Y jobs etc. fair enough.  It doesn't change the fact that the UK leaving the EU will leave a huge hole in the EU finances.

No it didn't!

I have already posted the quote that makes a lie of that claim. And it is very prominent in the article you said you read. Are you refusing to read this or what?

"...The rebate is applied straight away, so the UK never contributes this much."

"The rebate is applied straight away, so the UK never contributes this much."
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: LeoMc on June 26, 2016, 03:58:09 PM
The UK pays 350 million per week as part of running the EU, it will be interesting to see how the EU plug that hole in there finance if the UK does leave.
Who will plug the hole in the UKs finances when their economy contracts?
The EU and UK will both be poorer for the decision.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: dferg on June 26, 2016, 04:07:41 PM
The UK pays 350 million per week as part of running the EU, it will be interesting to see how the EU plug that hole in there finance if the UK does leave.
Who will plug the hole in the UKs finances when their economy contracts?
The EU and UK will both be poorer for the decision.

You could well be right.  It's hard to say how it will play out in the next few years.

With France etc calling for a vote on membership of the EU a lot will change in the next few years with this decision.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: muppet on June 26, 2016, 04:13:57 PM
The UK pays 350 million per week as part of running the EU, it will be interesting to see how the EU plug that hole in there finance if the UK does leave.
Who will plug the hole in the UKs finances when their economy contracts?
The EU and UK will both be poorer for the decision.

It looks to me that the UK pays in about a net £9bn a year. Barclays alone lost about £5bn on Friday. The UK will very likely enter a recession now which will be the really expensive cost of Brexit.

The Bank of England has created £375bn via QE since the financial crisis began.

The EU has created over a €1 trillion in QE.

£9bn a year is buttons. The economic contraction will be significant though.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: SkillfulBill on June 26, 2016, 04:17:36 PM
The UK pays 350 million per week as part of running the EU, it will be interesting to see how the EU plug that hole in there finance if the UK does leave.

It is 11 million per week.  :o :o

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/ (https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/)

Most of the contribution goes back to farmers and disadvantaged areas in the UK.

It will be interesting to see how London plugs that hole.

I did what you did.

Pulled a number out of my arse.
I read thst article. Where do you get 11 million per week from?
No i didn't do what you did. I googled the cost.  You are just being silly.

Yes you did!

You admitted you read the article which explains, right at the start, that Britain doesn't pay £18bn a year (your £350m * 52 weeks). But you pretended you hadn't read it and posted the anti-intellectual rant anyway.

I posted 30 words.  It was hardly a rant.

I didn't pretend anything, I said I read the article.  The UK pay a lot of money into the EU every year which will leave a huge hole in there finance if the UK leave.

Stick to your crap[tion] competition if you can't argue without being facetious.

This is one of the first 10 lines of the article you said you read:

"The UK doesn’t pay or "send to Brussels" this higher figure of £18 billion, or anything equivalent per week or per day. The rebate is applied straight away, so the UK never contributes this much."

And you accuse me of being facetious.  ;D ;D ;D
I read the article. It said they paid in 350 million per week.  If you want to say they get X amount of this back and being in the EU also brings Y jobs etc. fair enough.  It doesn't change the fact that the UK leaving the EU will leave a huge hole in the EU finances.

No it didn't!

I have already posted the quote that makes a lie of that claim. And it is very prominent in the article you said you read. Are you refused to read this or what?

"...The rebate is applied straight away, so the UK never contributes this much."

"The rebate is applied straight away, so the UK never contributes this much."

When i hear and read this sort of guff I find it hard to believe people are taken in by the simple economics of it. Do people believe that the UK have been involved in some sort of charitable donation scheme for the past 40 years. The net contribution the UK make is more than covered out of the profits British companies get from unrestricted access to 27 other European markets and the tax take from this. The net contribution is a the same as the marketing and sales development fee used to increase the standards of living to less developed regions not as a charitable donation but to increase the market for British exports. If markets close (which they will be) exports fall tax take falls and the cost of imports rise as a result of the fall in sterling and import tariffs. Inflation will edge up and interest rates will follow. Unemployement will also rise. NI is the biggest loser in this. What company is going to invest in an area which has a small local market without unristricted access to a slightly bigger market 30 miles down the road. Closed off to the European market by tariffs and removed from the UK market by the Irish sea. It costs £800 to get a 40ft into the south of England which is were the population is. Declining tax take in the UK means less money in the block grant.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: johnneycool on June 26, 2016, 10:21:08 PM
Even after the brexit, the UK will have to pay for the privilege of trading with the EU and meet all the associated compliance requirements without having any say in these standards.

The ability to control your own borders might come with a very high price for the little Englanders.

Apart from possible issues around the hard /soft border with the north, the 26 counties could be quid's in with the big multinationals looking a new EU base.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 26, 2016, 10:43:16 PM
Even after the brexit, the UK will have to pay for the privilege of trading with the EU and meet all the associated compliance requirements without having any say in these standards.

The ability to control your own borders might come with a very high price for the little Englanders.

Apart from possible issues around the hard /soft border with the north, the 26 counties could be quid's in with the big multinationals looking a new EU base.

It is a lose/lose for the 6 counties. For the 26 counties it is a swings and roundabouts, but not in a good way. Yes, some banks etc might come to Dublin and drive up rents etc there further, but indigenous Irish business might be adversely affected and places like Donegal more than most. So you get a bit of what caused Brexit moved here.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: muppet on June 26, 2016, 10:46:16 PM
Newcastle this weekend:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: muppet on June 26, 2016, 10:46:51 PM
I wonder how the DUP would feel about being repatriated?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: smelmoth on June 26, 2016, 10:49:23 PM
Even after the brexit, the UK will have to pay for the privilege of trading with the EU and meet all the associated compliance requirements without having any say in these standards.

The ability to control your own borders might come with a very high price for the little Englanders.

Apart from possible issues around the hard /soft border with the north, the 26 counties could be quid's in with the big multinationals looking a new EU base.

The No1 most effected economy in this is RoI. And I include UK in this

UK is a key a market for RoI. Any reduced deman in UK impacts negatively on RoI. A weaker sterling makes RoI exports to UK more expensive and thats before we add tarrifs. I say Inda and Noonan are shiting themselves and praying that the EU goes lightly on UK
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 26, 2016, 11:17:23 PM
The No1 most effected economy in this is RoI. And I include UK in this

UK is a key a market for RoI. Any reduced deman in UK impacts negatively on RoI. A weaker sterling makes RoI exports to UK more expensive and thats before we add tarrifs. I say Inda and Noonan are shiting themselves and praying that the EU goes lightly on UK

The ROI is one of the few places the UK has a trade surplus with, owing to the volume of consumer goods from there. Sterling going down is a swings and roundabouts issue too.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: muppet on June 26, 2016, 11:23:37 PM
Even after the brexit, the UK will have to pay for the privilege of trading with the EU and meet all the associated compliance requirements without having any say in these standards.

The ability to control your own borders might come with a very high price for the little Englanders.

Apart from possible issues around the hard /soft border with the north, the 26 counties could be quid's in with the big multinationals looking a new EU base.

The No1 most effected economy in this is RoI. And I include UK in this

UK is a key a market for RoI.
Any reduced deman in UK impacts negatively on RoI. A weaker sterling makes RoI exports to UK more expensive and thats before we add tarrifs. I say Inda and Noonan are shiting themselves and praying that the EU goes lightly on UK

Is the UK not a key market for the UK?   :D :D :D
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 26, 2016, 11:40:31 PM
Fearmongers still at it
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/26/the-eu-will-treat-britain-like-greece/

All the more reason for a formula to get the 6 counties out of this shite.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: dferg on June 26, 2016, 11:57:59 PM
Even after the brexit, the UK will have to pay for the privilege of trading with the EU and meet all the associated compliance requirements without having any say in these standards.

The ability to control your own borders might come with a very high price for the little Englanders.

Apart from possible issues around the hard /soft border with the north, the 26 counties could be quid's in with the big multinationals looking a new EU base.

The No1 most effected economy in this is RoI. And I include UK in this

UK is a key a market for RoI. Any reduced deman in UK impacts negatively on RoI. A weaker sterling makes RoI exports to UK more expensive and thats before we add tarrifs. I say Inda and Noonan are shiting themselves and praying that the EU goes lightly on UK

Most people on this forum seem to focus on how Brexit will affect the UK economy, I feel it will affect the Euro at least as much if not more.  We have already the leader of the far right in France calling for a free vote for a FREXIT which Hollande says he will not allow.  He can stall this vote but if the already strong Far Right (NF was the largest party in France in 2014 European elections https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament_election,_2014_(France)) win the election next spring they will push hard for a vote on FREXIT.  Spain for example with 20% unemployment could easily follow and demand a vote on the Euro.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/buy-britain-but-sell-europe-after-stunning-brexit-rebuke-2016-06-24 (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/buy-britain-but-sell-europe-after-stunning-brexit-rebuke-2016-06-24)
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: muppet on June 27, 2016, 12:03:43 AM
Even after the brexit, the UK will have to pay for the privilege of trading with the EU and meet all the associated compliance requirements without having any say in these standards.

The ability to control your own borders might come with a very high price for the little Englanders.

Apart from possible issues around the hard /soft border with the north, the 26 counties could be quid's in with the big multinationals looking a new EU base.

The No1 most effected economy in this is RoI. And I include UK in this

UK is a key a market for RoI. Any reduced deman in UK impacts negatively on RoI. A weaker sterling makes RoI exports to UK more expensive and thats before we add tarrifs. I say Inda and Noonan are shiting themselves and praying that the EU goes lightly on UK

Most people on this forum seem to focus on how Brexit will affect the UK economy, I feel it will affect the Euro at least as much if not more.  We have already the leader of the far right in France calling for a free vote for a FREXIT which Hollande says he will not allow.  He can stall this vote but if the already strong Far Right (NF was the largest party in France in 2014 European elections https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament_election,_2014_(France)) win the election next spring they will push hard for a vote on FREXIT.  Spain for example with 20% unemployment could easily follow and demand a vote on the Euro.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/buy-britain-but-sell-europe-after-stunning-brexit-rebuke-2016-06-24 (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/buy-britain-but-sell-europe-after-stunning-brexit-rebuke-2016-06-24)

You think Britain leaving the EU will affect the EU 'at least as much if not more' than it will affect Britain?

Seriously?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: SkillfulBill on June 27, 2016, 12:04:13 AM
Even after the brexit, the UK will have to pay for the privilege of trading with the EU and meet all the associated compliance requirements without having any say in these standards.

The ability to control your own borders might come with a very high price for the little Englanders.

Apart from possible issues around the hard /soft border with the north, the 26 counties could be quid's in with the big multinationals looking a new EU base.

The No1 most effected economy in this is RoI. And I include UK in this

UK is a key a market for RoI. Any reduced deman in UK impacts negatively on RoI. A weaker sterling makes RoI exports to UK more expensive and thats before we add tarrifs. I say Inda and Noonan are shiting themselves and praying that the EU goes lightly on UK

Most people on this forum seem to focus on how Brexit will affect the UK economy, I feel it will affect the Euro at least as much if not more.  We have already the leader of the far right in France calling for a free vote for a FREXIT which Hollande says he will not allow.  He can stall this vote but if the already strong Far Right (NF was the largest party in France in 2014 European elections https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament_election,_2014_(France)) win the election next spring they will push hard for a vote on FREXIT.  Spain for example with 20% unemployment could easily follow and demand a vote on the Euro.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/buy-britain-but-sell-europe-after-stunning-brexit-rebuke-2016-06-24 (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/buy-britain-but-sell-europe-after-stunning-brexit-rebuke-2016-06-24)

Here is the truth of the sixth largest economy in the world. The Uk national Debt is £1.6 trillion. Thats £1.6 million million and will grow by at least another 1/2 trillion on the back of a recession voted for by themselves.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Rossfan on June 27, 2016, 12:08:03 AM
How will Spain voting to leave the Euro sort out their unemployment?
What will leaving the EU do for France exactly?
Have the Brits any effn idea where they go from here?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: screenexile on June 27, 2016, 12:10:25 AM
As anyone with half a brain cell knew... the Leave campaign was just that. A campaign!

Now the shit has hit the fan they haven't a f**king clue what to do and I think Cameron has played his hand well at this stage, Boris needs to deliver something monumental in his term or if will forever be remembered as failure. His press conference was a sorry affair when it should have been a triumph given he'd helped to dupe the Country on such a huge scale but with Cameron resigning he has to do the dirty work now and he's in over his head.

Interesting video...

https://youtu.be/thu4I9Wd1Hg

Is it going to happen at all? If it doesn't happen we have a whole new set of problems!
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 27, 2016, 12:11:20 AM
How will Spain voting to leave the Euro sort out their unemployment?

Devaluation.

Quote
Have the Brits any effn idea where they go from here?

Absolutely none.

Is it going to happen at all? If it doesn't happen we have a whole new set of problems!

Some think not. Although the future is opaque.
If it doesn't happen the problems are mitigated. Uncertainty would persist, but companies would still tend to choose Ireland to be sure to be sure. In the 6 counties there could be time to come up with some sort of plan. Scotland would live in interesting times.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: muppet on June 27, 2016, 12:13:09 AM
How will Spain voting to leave the Euro sort out their unemployment?

Devaluation.

Quote
Have the Brits any effn idea where they go from here?

Absolutely none.

The problem with devaluation nowadays is that everyone is doing it.  :D
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Rossfan on June 27, 2016, 12:15:28 AM
And the Spanish Government debt is all €......
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: SkillfulBill on June 27, 2016, 12:15:59 AM
How will Spain voting to leave the Euro sort out their unemployment?

Devaluation.

Quote
Have the Brits any effn idea where they go from here?

Absolutely none.

The problem with devaluation nowadays is that everyone is doing it.  :D

Germany tried that after world war 1. And it took 2 wheelbarrrows of German marks to buy a loaf of bread.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 27, 2016, 12:28:41 AM
The problem with devaluation nowadays is that everyone is doing it.  :D

Especially the Leave lot
"In Asia, the British pound is down 1.6 per cent on Monday morning at $1.3459"
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 27, 2016, 04:56:22 AM
How will Spain voting to leave the Euro sort out their unemployment?

Devaluation.

Quote
Have the Brits any effn idea where they go from here?

Absolutely none.

The problem with devaluation nowadays is that everyone is doing it.  :D
OOr trying to. It is like "get your tongue out of my mouth. I am kissing you goodbye" but there is too much money sloshing around. The Euro should be way lower. So should the yen.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 27, 2016, 08:31:10 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/27/liverpool-london-brexit-leave-eu-referendum
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: smelmoth on June 27, 2016, 08:50:45 AM
The No1 most effected economy in this is RoI. And I include UK in this

UK is a key a market for RoI. Any reduced deman in UK impacts negatively on RoI. A weaker sterling makes RoI exports to UK more expensive and thats before we add tarrifs. I say Inda and Noonan are shiting themselves and praying that the EU goes lightly on UK

The ROI is one of the few places the UK has a trade surplus with, owing to the volume of consumer goods from there. Sterling going down is a swings and roundabouts issue too.

Explain the significance of the trade surplus in the context of this debate?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: smelmoth on June 27, 2016, 08:53:20 AM
Even after the brexit, the UK will have to pay for the privilege of trading with the EU and meet all the associated compliance requirements without having any say in these standards.

The ability to control your own borders might come with a very high price for the little Englanders.

Apart from possible issues around the hard /soft border with the north, the 26 counties could be quid's in with the big multinationals looking a new EU base.

The No1 most effected economy in this is RoI. And I include UK in this

UK is a key a market for RoI.
Any reduced deman in UK impacts negatively on RoI. A weaker sterling makes RoI exports to UK more expensive and thats before we add tarrifs. I say Inda and Noonan are shiting themselves and praying that the EU goes lightly on UK

Is the UK not a key market for the UK?   :D :D :D

The domestic market is as key to the UK as it is to any other nation but that does not mean that the the Uk will feel the pain of its own (stupid) decision more than RoI.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: LeoMc on June 27, 2016, 08:55:36 AM
The No1 most effected economy in this is RoI. And I include UK in this

UK is a key a market for RoI. Any reduced deman in UK impacts negatively on RoI. A weaker sterling makes RoI exports to UK more expensive and thats before we add tarrifs. I say Inda and Noonan are shiting themselves and praying that the EU goes lightly on UK

The ROI is one of the few places the UK has a trade surplus with, owing to the volume of consumer goods from there. Sterling going down is a swings and roundabouts issue too.

Explain the significance of the trade surplus in the context of this debate?
The UK's trade surplus is Irelands trade defecit.
If we are trading the same volume but the cost of the goods coming in goes down (£ loses value relative to €) then Irelands trade defecit narrows.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: gallsman on June 27, 2016, 09:02:15 AM
Anyone buying sterling?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: smelmoth on June 27, 2016, 09:10:55 AM
The No1 most effected economy in this is RoI. And I include UK in this

UK is a key a market for RoI. Any reduced deman in UK impacts negatively on RoI. A weaker sterling makes RoI exports to UK more expensive and thats before we add tarrifs. I say Inda and Noonan are shiting themselves and praying that the EU goes lightly on UK

The ROI is one of the few places the UK has a trade surplus with, owing to the volume of consumer goods from there. Sterling going down is a swings and roundabouts issue too.

Explain the significance of the trade surplus in the context of this debate?
The UK's trade surplus is Irelands trade defecit.
If we are trading the same volume but the cost of the goods coming in goes down (£ loses value relative to €) then Irelands trade defecit narrows.

So if you sell a good or service into the UK and you lose orders because there is less demand in UK, the currency movement has made your goods more expensive and the UK importer now has to pay an import tariff what significance is to you that the imports from UK will be cheaper?

Is it not even worse as an import from UK is now cheaper (especially in the 2+ years Article 50 period) and so RoI businesses well find it harder to compete in their domestic market against UK competitors?
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: No wides on June 27, 2016, 09:18:56 AM
One million signatures for a second vote.

BTW the DUP are odious.

2 million now completely pointless.

Mickey Mouse, I Squeaky Way etc. must have been signing up.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36634407 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36634407)
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Canalman on June 27, 2016, 09:24:50 AM
The No1 most effected economy in this is RoI. And I include UK in this

UK is a key a market for RoI. Any reduced deman in UK impacts negatively on RoI. A weaker sterling makes RoI exports to UK more expensive and thats before we add tarrifs. I say Inda and Noonan are shiting themselves and praying that the EU goes lightly on UK

The ROI is one of the few places the UK has a trade surplus with, owing to the volume of consumer goods from there. Sterling going down is a swings and roundabouts issue too.

Explain the significance of the trade surplus in the context of this debate?


Would expect every member state government to snarl at their dept of Finances this morning to find out what their trade balance with the UK is. Then they will decide how to deal with the UK in the negotiations on the basis of their national self interest.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Applesisapples on June 27, 2016, 09:25:46 AM
Switzerland do alright. As does Norway, Israel, US, China etc.

You are deluded if you think the UK won't be able to trade with EU members. They're the 5th or 6th biggest economy in the world. They'll work it out!

Immigration is a factor too. Infrastructures can't cope with massive influxes of people; hospitals, doctors, schools etc. Another good reason to get out. Should've happened 10 years ago.
Yes Britain can have those types of deals, which will mean accepting all the laws and paying into the EU, with no say or influence.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Applesisapples on June 27, 2016, 09:41:40 AM
Are you allowed to express concerns about unchecked immigration without being labelled a racist ?
I was taken by the people expressing such concerns being or Irish, Asian and African origin. Without immigration they would still be in their home countries.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: smelmoth on June 27, 2016, 09:55:25 AM
Switzerland do alright. As does Norway, Israel, US, China etc.

You are deluded if you think the UK won't be able to trade with EU members. They're the 5th or 6th biggest economy in the world. They'll work it out!

Immigration is a factor too. Infrastructures can't cope with massive influxes of people; hospitals, doctors, schools etc. Another good reason to get out. Should've happened 10 years ago.
Yes Britain can have those types of deals, which will mean accepting all the laws and paying into the EU, with no say or influence.

Nail on head.

At no stage did the Remain campaign say there would be no trade with EU. The issue is the terms of trade. Any attempt to have a debate on this before the poll was shouted down as scare mongering
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 27, 2016, 09:59:49 AM
The UK needs access to the Single Market which comes with acceptance of free movement of people.
If there was economic growth in europe free movement would not be an issue. But neoliberalism is fucked
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: seafoid on June 27, 2016, 10:08:14 AM
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2b84027e-3b93-11e6-9f2c-36b487ebd80a.html

The City of London should brace itself for an new era where its rule book reflects Franco-German interests unchecked by “the British voice”, according to Britain’s outgoing EU commissioner in charge of financial services.
In an FT interview following his resignation on Saturday, Jonathan Hill laid out the imminent shift in power on European rulemaking, which could leave British financial institutions bending to eurozone-dominated priorities, even if London is outside the single market.
More
ON THIS STORY
•   Brexit live The fallout
•   Brexit The questions for markets this week
•   Analysis Will foreign banks leave the UK?
•   Chris Grayling City needs a neat Brexit
•   Gavyn Davies Is Brexit a global uncertainty shock?
ON THIS TOPIC
•   Banks begin moving some operations out of Britain
•   Singapore to overtake UK for offshore finance
•   Banks continue to shrink London space
•   City police chief says officers will stay unarmed
IN EUROPE
•   EU defence strategy to push for closer integration
•   US moves to mediate in EU political crisis
•   Spain’s elections five key takeaways
•   Begin divorce process to trigger talks
While it is hard to predict the form or speed of any turn against the City, Lord Hill said longstanding efforts to bring financial operations back to the euro area may be resurrected, including the European Central Bank’s plan — annulled by the EU’s top court — to locate clearing services in the single currency zone. “You know the history and sometimes history does repeat itself,” he said.
His departure is the most tangible sign of British political influence in Brussels evaporating after its referendum vote to leave the EU, with power draining away from Brits in the EU institutions and the European Parliament. No new British commissioner was nominated, in part because a confirmation hearing in the European Parliament was seen as a lost cause.
Underlining the abrupt shift influence, Lord Hill’s powerful portfolio — initially offered to Britain as an olive-branch — has been taken over by Valdis Dombrovskis, the commission vice-president responsible for the euro.

Will foreign banks leave the UK after Brexit?

 
The loss of ‘passporting’ rights could see lenders move their headquarters from London
The move is a sign the EU is shifting its policy goals towards aligning Europe’s 28-country strong single market for finance with the interests of the smaller eurozone and its banking union, rather than allowing them to permanently coexist. It is an outcome Britain had spent 25 years fighting to avoid.
Mr Hill’s point is that British banks and financial institutions will not escape this EU-27 rulemaking, whatever arrangements are found post-Brexit. Should Britain’s single market access continue — with prized “passporting” rights to serve EU clients in London — the rules are likely to have to be adopted wholesale.
In any event, negotiating such access may be impossible. “Most approaches that offer access come with free movement of people and I can’t see that flying given the weight of immigration as an issue in the referendum debate,” he said.
Other senior EU officials believe the UK’s passporting rights are effectively “dead” post-Brexit because other countries led by France will ensure any future form of passport will offer far less privileged access to a eurozone market with more protectionist rules. Banks have already begun to take action to shift operations out of the UK, approaching euro area regulators to secure licences.
If Britain seeks a deal outside the single market — based on EU and UK rules being deemed as “equivalent” and offering limited mutual access in return — many of those eurozone dominated rules will still need to be followed.
“Rulemaking will continue at a global level and at a European level . . . who is in the room and who has the critical heft is extremely important in how rules end up,” he said. “The nature of the rules you have to be equivalent to, or passporting into, are going to shift,” he added.
With Britain outside the bloc, a number of EU and ECB reform ideas it had thwarted could regain momentum, including a single capital markets authority, a more interventionist policy on markets in general and new bank capital rules better tailored to the interests of French, German and Italian lenders. Mr Hill’s plans for a capital markets union may roll-on, but over time take a more ambitious, eurozone-centred shape.
“The voices that would be present at the table without Britain there — the voice of the French financial services industry, German industry, Dutch, Irish — will clearly be heard,” said Lord Hill.
“The nature and the shape of the financial services industry in France or in Germany — from the banking and any other point of view — is pretty different from what it is in the UK. So the direction of how policy will evolve will reflect those different voices, without the British voice in there to balance.”
The direction of how policy will evolve will reflect those different voices, without the British voice in there to balance
- Lord Hill
Clearly rocked by a tumultuous 48 hours since the referendum, Lord Hill spoke of his tremendous sadness at the result, and his own personal journey from being an anti-euro comrade-in-arms with many Brexit campaigners to a EU commissioner convinced Britain’s national interests were best protected within the bloc.
“The only sensible thing is to get everyone to put their effort into how you make things work as well as possible for the UK and the rest of Europe,” he said. “I don’t think you do that by everyone diving into the trenches and digging into conflictual positions.”
Two Conservative party convulsions on Europe have been bookends to Lord Hill’s political career, first as a Downing Street adviser during the Maastricht revolt, and possibly Britain’s last EU commissioner with any clout. Asked whether he would be supporting Boris Johnson, Brexiter and former London mayor, to become Tory leader, Mr Hill said: “For the moment, one of the few benefits of being in Brussels in the Berlaymont is that I will not have to get involved in that campaign.”
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: armaghniac on June 27, 2016, 10:15:02 AM
The No1 most effected economy in this is RoI. And I include UK in this

UK is a key a market for RoI. Any reduced deman in UK impacts negatively on RoI. A weaker sterling makes RoI exports to UK more expensive and thats before we add tarrifs. I say Inda and Noonan are shiting themselves and praying that the EU goes lightly on UK

The ROI is one of the few places the UK has a trade surplus with, owing to the volume of consumer goods from there. Sterling going down is a swings and roundabouts issue too.

Explain the significance of the trade surplus in the context of this debate?
The UK's trade surplus is Irelands trade defecit.
If we are trading the same volume but the cost of the goods coming in goes down (£ loses value relative to €) then Irelands trade defecit narrows.

So if you sell a good or service into the UK and you lose orders because there is less demand in UK, the currency movement has made your goods more expensive and the UK importer now has to pay an import tariff what significance is to you that the imports from UK will be cheaper?

Is it not even worse as an import from UK is now cheaper (especially in the 2+ years Article 50 period) and so RoI businesses well find it harder to compete in their domestic market against UK competitors?

All this is true. But it is also true that UK imports form a significant input to goods exports from Ireland to elsewhere.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: dferg on June 27, 2016, 10:32:30 AM
Even after the brexit, the UK will have to pay for the privilege of trading with the EU and meet all the associated compliance requirements without having any say in these standards.

The ability to control your own borders might come with a very high price for the little Englanders.

Apart from possible issues around the hard /soft border with the north, the 26 counties could be quid's in with the big multinationals looking a new EU base.

The No1 most effected economy in this is RoI. And I include UK in this

UK is a key a market for RoI. Any reduced deman in UK impacts negatively on RoI. A weaker sterling makes RoI exports to UK more expensive and thats before we add tarrifs. I say Inda and Noonan are shiting themselves and praying that the EU goes lightly on UK

Most people on this forum seem to focus on how Brexit will affect the UK economy, I feel it will affect the Euro at least as much if not more.  We have already the leader of the far right in France calling for a free vote for a FREXIT which Hollande says he will not allow.  He can stall this vote but if the already strong Far Right (NF was the largest party in France in 2014 European elections https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament_election,_2014_(France)) win the election next spring they will push hard for a vote on FREXIT.  Spain for example with 20% unemployment could easily follow and demand a vote on the Euro.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/buy-britain-but-sell-europe-after-stunning-brexit-rebuke-2016-06-24 (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/buy-britain-but-sell-europe-after-stunning-brexit-rebuke-2016-06-24)

You think Britain leaving the EU will affect the EU 'at least as much if not more' than it will affect Britain?

Seriously?

I do yes.

David Cameron came to the negotiating table and threatened the EU with a UK vote on BREXIT as a negotiating tactic, if there was a vote and it was fairly close (55-45% in favour of stay for example) they could use the threat of another vote in the future.  The EU in a game of brinkmanship said fine have a vote and it's snowballed from there.  Now they are both going holy fook what sort of can of worms have we opened up here.  They are the second biggest net contributor to the EU (whatever way you want to look at the numbers ::) ) and by leaving they destabilise further other countries like France who are more right wing than Britain.  It's not like Ireland threatening to leave, where the EU delegates might get them there suitcases as there next move.

I'd imagine Boris wants to be prime minister at least as much as he wants a BREXIT.  One scenario that could play out is behind the scenes the EU offer Britain some sort of deal, a further cap on contributions, controls on immigration that Boris will then have to sell in a second referendum.  He gets to look like a sort of white knight that has given the EU a bloody nose and the EU goes on much like before.
Title: Re: Brexit.
Post by: Walter Cronc on June 27, 2016, 10:43:13 AM