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Non GAA Discussion => General discussion => Topic started by: Mayo4Sam14 on September 03, 2015, 03:42:21 PM

Title: Refugees
Post by: Mayo4Sam14 on September 03, 2015, 03:42:21 PM
There's appeals protests and all sorts going on trying to get the government to take more and more refugees and I don't me to sound like a cold hearted p***k but they're not our problem, how are we to provide home, shelter etc. There is already an insufficient number of houses and jobs and money... what about the people already on our streets? Should they not be the priority? I understand we have to take a certain amount because of the feckin EU but let that be it
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: general_lee on September 03, 2015, 03:46:48 PM
Howya inda  ::)
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: mylestheslasher on September 03, 2015, 03:51:36 PM
There's appeals protests and all sorts going on trying to get the government to take more and more refugees and I don't me to sound like a cold hearted p***k but they're not our problem, how are we to provide home, shelter etc. There is already an insufficient number of houses and jobs and money... what about the people already on our streets? Should they not be the priority? I understand we have to take a certain amount because of the feckin EU but let that be it

But thats what you are.
Whos problem are these poor people then???
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: deiseach on September 03, 2015, 03:53:34 PM
I think we should err on the side of generosity. If, at some time in the future, a natural or man-made disaster meant my son had to look for refuge elsewhere, it would be nice for him to able to point to this generation of Irish people as inspiration.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 03, 2015, 03:55:19 PM
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Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: AZOffaly on September 03, 2015, 03:56:11 PM
I dislike Bayern Munich on the pitch, with lads like Ribery and Robben, but this is a great gesture...

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/34142261 (http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/34142261)
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Hereiam on September 03, 2015, 04:18:15 PM
Mayo I'm sure once they spend a while in this country they will be glad to get back home.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on September 03, 2015, 07:12:30 PM
There's appeals protests and all sorts going on trying to get the government to take more and more refugees and I don't me to sound like a cold hearted p***k but they're not our problem, how are we to provide home, shelter etc. There is already an insufficient number of houses and jobs and money... what about the people already on our streets? Should they not be the priority? I understand we have to take a certain amount because of the feckin EU but let that be it

Yes, we're short on houses alright  :o

Short on Jobs, depends on your skills but I've no doubt plenty of these people have skills we're short of

Money?? Are you f*cking kidding me?? How much did you spend on the phone / computer you're looking at right now??

These people have almost nothing, literally nothing in many cases and if we can't collectively find a way to help then, god help us
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: easytiger95 on September 03, 2015, 07:27:34 PM
We should be thinking strategically about this.

We should say to the EU - yes, we will step up and do our share and more. However, for this to happen we will need certain things to go our way. For instance, how about a relaxation of current deficit rules to borrow more for infrastructural needs (money is extremely cheap for us on the open market at the moment). Imagine the boost for our society with a planned rollout of social housing construction, taking care not only of extra refugees but our own homeless problem?

How about asking for a further extension on interest payments to the Troika, or better yet, an agreement with them, that in return for us taking up the cudgels in terms of housing refugees, any interest payment due to the institutions for a set period of years be diverted into capital spending with an emphasis on social needs, but those payments still count against the debt. This crisis has the potential to be far more expensive for European countries in societal terms than the financial crisis - we need to be pushing the idea of a new Marshall plan for refugees, a good part of which would be financed by debt forgiveness, invigorating our economies, finally making these institutions socially responsible, and finally, and most importantly, giving us the means to take care of as many of these people as we can.

The Greek root of the word "crisis" is opportunity.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Mayo4Sam14 on September 03, 2015, 07:52:32 PM
There's appeals protests and all sorts going on trying to get the government to take more and more refugees and I don't me to sound like a cold hearted p***k but they're not our problem, how are we to provide home, shelter etc. There is already an insufficient number of houses and jobs and money... what about the people already on our streets? Should they not be the priority? I understand we have to take a certain amount because of the feckin EU but let that be it

Yes, we're short on houses alright  :o

Short on Jobs, depends on your skills but I've no doubt plenty of these people have skills we're short of

Money?? Are you f*cking kidding me?? How much did you spend on the phone / computer you're looking at right now??

These people have almost nothing, literally nothing in many cases and if we can't collectively find a way to help then, god help us

Why can't we collectively find enough to help those amongst ourselves who need help?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: GJL on September 03, 2015, 07:57:01 PM
There's appeals protests and all sorts going on trying to get the government to take more and more refugees and I don't me to sound like a cold hearted p***k but they're not our problem, how are we to provide home, shelter etc. There is already an insufficient number of houses and jobs and money... what about the people already on our streets? Should they not be the priority? I understand we have to take a certain amount because of the feckin EU but let that be it

I hope and think that most Irish people would not be so selfish.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on September 03, 2015, 08:00:29 PM
There's appeals protests and all sorts going on trying to get the government to take more and more refugees and I don't me to sound like a cold hearted p***k but they're not our problem, how are we to provide home, shelter etc. There is already an insufficient number of houses and jobs and money... what about the people already on our streets? Should they not be the priority? I understand we have to take a certain amount because of the feckin EU but let that be it

Yes, we're short on houses alright  :o

Short on Jobs, depends on your skills but I've no doubt plenty of these people have skills we're short of

Money?? Are you f*cking kidding me?? How much did you spend on the phone / computer you're looking at right now??

These people have almost nothing, literally nothing in many cases and if we can't collectively find a way to help then, god help us

Why can't we collectively find enough to help those amongst ourselves who need help?

I don't know but that doesn't mean we can't help others. On the scale of neediness, not many (if any) in Ireland can hold a candle to these refugees.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Declan on September 03, 2015, 09:19:05 PM
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Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on September 03, 2015, 10:27:41 PM
There's appeals protests and all sorts going on trying to get the government to take more and more refugees and I don't me to sound like a cold hearted p***k but they're not our problem, how are we to provide home, shelter etc. There is already an insufficient number of houses and jobs and money... what about the people already on our streets? Should they not be the priority? I understand we have to take a certain amount because of the feckin EU but let that be it

Yes, we're short on houses alright  :o

Short on Jobs, depends on your skills but I've no doubt plenty of these people have skills we're short of

Money?? Are you f*cking kidding me?? How much did you spend on the phone / computer you're looking at right now??

These people have almost nothing, literally nothing in many cases and if we can't collectively find a way to help then, god help us

Why can't we collectively find enough to help those amongst ourselves who need help?

There are enough empty houses in each province to house the homeless. The reasons that latter aren't in the former are political, red-tape, strategic, NAMA's terms of reference, moral hazard etc.

But don't be fooled, we have enough to look after all of our own. We just find reasons not to. These reasons even have a logic to them. But they have little or no humanity.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: armaghniac on September 04, 2015, 12:43:45 AM
There are enough empty houses in each province to house the homeless. The reasons that latter aren't in the former are political, red-tape, strategic, NAMA's terms of reference, moral hazard etc.

But don't be fooled, we have enough to look after all of our own. We just find reasons not to. These reasons even have a logic to them. But they have little or no humanity.

There may be enough houses in each province, but the homeless and many of these refugees wish to live not in those places but where houses are in short supply. If Syrian refugees wish to live in Leitrim a house can be found, if they wish to live with a short distance of the mosque in Clonskeagh that is a different thing altogether.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 04, 2015, 04:16:14 AM
if they wish to live with a short distance of the mosque in Clonskeagh that is a different thing altogether.

Oh come on, they're not exactly demanding room service now, are they? Look at what they're going through just to get out of there.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: armaghniac on September 04, 2015, 04:46:43 AM
if they wish to live with a short distance of the mosque in Clonskeagh that is a different thing altogether.

Oh come on, they're not exactly demanding room service now, are they? Look at what they're going through just to get out of there.

Many of them are  rioting in order not to stay in Hungary, why would they not also have a similar attitude to Leitrim?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 04, 2015, 05:07:15 AM
If the Guards in Leitrim tried to stop them from legally moving from one part of the EU to another using train tickets that they've already paid for with what was probably the last of their money, yeah, they might riot in Leitrim. Bit of a hypothetical situation though.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: armaghniac on September 04, 2015, 05:10:05 AM
If the Guards in Leitrim tried to stop them from legally moving from one part of the EU to another using train tickets that they've already paid for with what was probably the last of their money, yeah, they might riot in Leitrim. Bit of a hypothetical situation though.

But they are not legally moving to another part of the EU, they entered Hungary illegally and have not sought asylum. They are not legally in the EU at all. And they mostly didn't have train tickets, especially for the first class carriages featured in the TV pics.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on September 04, 2015, 07:08:05 AM
if they wish to live with a short distance of the mosque in Clonskeagh that is a different thing altogether.

Oh come on, they're not exactly demanding room service now, are they? Look at what they're going through just to get out of there.

Many of them are  rioting in order not to stay in Hungary, why would they not also have a similar attitude to Leitrim?

They didn't want to be corralled into a camp in Hungary. Big difference between that and your spin on things. I take it you would have no difficulty being housed indefinitely, without freedom, in a Hungarian camp marshalled by riot police?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: armaghniac on September 04, 2015, 07:17:22 AM
Nobody in Hungary is going to imprison refugees. But requiring them to follow the law and register is perfectly reasonable.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Tony Baloney on September 04, 2015, 07:46:34 AM
if they wish to live with a short distance of the mosque in Clonskeagh that is a different thing altogether.

Oh come on, they're not exactly demanding room service now, are they? Look at what they're going through just to get out of there.

Many of them are  rioting in order not to stay in Hungary, why would they not also have a similar attitude to Leitrim?

They didn't want to be corralled into a camp in Hungary. Big difference between that and your spin on things. I take it you would have no difficulty being housed indefinitely, without freedom, in a Hungarian camp marshalled by riot police?
After fleeing oppression on an inflatable dinghy would you not think it was a reasonable state of affairs to follow a bit of a process. Assuming they have access to clean water, food and a roof over their heads.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: armaghniac on September 04, 2015, 07:52:13 AM
Ah, but the process might lead to living in a perfectly safe place, but but not perhaps your first choice.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on September 04, 2015, 08:21:23 AM
Apparently some on the train to that camp in Hungary had been sold tickets to Munich.  :o
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Bord na Mona man on September 04, 2015, 09:04:09 AM
Not much sympathy on the comments in the Guardian these days. Though in Britain there are far more media outlets and politicians railing against 'benefit cheats' and 'illegal migrants'.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/sep/04/refugee-migration-crisis-live-eu-biggest-test-since-second-world-war#comments
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Tony Baloney on September 04, 2015, 10:05:47 AM
Not much sympathy on the comments in the Guardian these days. Though in Britain there are far more media outlets and politicians railing against 'benefit cheats' and 'illegal migrants'.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/sep/04/refugee-migration-crisis-live-eu-biggest-test-since-second-world-war#comments
It is hard for a lot of people to separate "economic migrants" from E. Europe and refugees fleeing Syria. The Brits fear opening the gates will let them all in and someone will have to foot the bill for it. That's why I think there has to be a controlled stream into the host countries rather than letting thousands of people rock up to a train station with nowhere to stay etc.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on September 04, 2015, 11:27:46 AM
if they wish to live with a short distance of the mosque in Clonskeagh that is a different thing altogether.

Oh come on, they're not exactly demanding room service now, are they? Look at what they're going through just to get out of there.

Many of them are  rioting in order not to stay in Hungary, why would they not also have a similar attitude to Leitrim?

They didn't want to be corralled into a camp in Hungary. Big difference between that and your spin on things. I take it you would have no difficulty being housed indefinitely, without freedom, in a Hungarian camp marshalled by riot police?
After fleeing oppression on an inflatable dinghy would you not think it was a reasonable state of affairs to follow a bit of a process. Assuming they have access to clean water, food and a roof over their heads.

The reason they left in an inflatable dinghy is that they were trapped in process in Turkey, who would not issue them with exit visas. That idea of being trapped in a indefinitely in process, in a camp, in another country obviously didn't appeal to them and I would agree if I were in their shoes. They are people, not prisoners.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Declan on September 04, 2015, 12:54:29 PM
Celtic have announced that they're donating the proceeds from the club's charity match with Dunfermline this weekend to help those affected by the current refugee crisis.

What a great gesture from the football club...

Celtic announced the news in a statement on the club's website saying that all their share of the proceeds from the Jock Stein 30th Anniversary Charity Match between Celtic Legends and Dunfermline on Sunday would go to an international aid agency.

They have cited the club's beginnings as one of the main reasons to donate the money to the people in need.

Celtic Chief Executive Peter Lawwell said: "Having seen the effects of this humanitarian crisis unfold in recent days, we felt as a club we should help in any way we can."

"None of us can understand the true horrors of this situation but as a club we wanted to show our support for those affected."
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: armaghniac on September 04, 2015, 03:27:58 PM
if they wish to live with a short distance of the mosque in Clonskeagh that is a different thing altogether.

Oh come on, they're not exactly demanding room service now, are they? Look at what they're going through just to get out of there.

Many of them are  rioting in order not to stay in Hungary, why would they not also have a similar attitude to Leitrim?

They didn't want to be corralled into a camp in Hungary. Big difference between that and your spin on things. I take it you would have no difficulty being housed indefinitely, without freedom, in a Hungarian camp marshalled by riot police?
After fleeing oppression on an inflatable dinghy would you not think it was a reasonable state of affairs to follow a bit of a process. Assuming they have access to clean water, food and a roof over their heads.

The reason they left in an inflatable dinghy is that they were trapped in process in Turkey, who would not issue them with exit visas. That idea of being trapped in a indefinitely in process, in a camp, in another country obviously didn't appeal to them and I would agree if I were in their shoes. They are people, not prisoners.

But there you have the problem. Great crowds of people who are unwilling to respect any legal processes seem rather threatening to residents of other places leading to some of the comments mentioned.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on September 04, 2015, 06:58:05 PM
if they wish to live with a short distance of the mosque in Clonskeagh that is a different thing altogether.

Oh come on, they're not exactly demanding room service now, are they? Look at what they're going through just to get out of there.

Many of them are  rioting in order not to stay in Hungary, why would they not also have a similar attitude to Leitrim?

They didn't want to be corralled into a camp in Hungary. Big difference between that and your spin on things. I take it you would have no difficulty being housed indefinitely, without freedom, in a Hungarian camp marshalled by riot police?
After fleeing oppression on an inflatable dinghy would you not think it was a reasonable state of affairs to follow a bit of a process. Assuming they have access to clean water, food and a roof over their heads.

The reason they left in an inflatable dinghy is that they were trapped in process in Turkey, who would not issue them with exit visas. That idea of being trapped in a indefinitely in process, in a camp, in another country obviously didn't appeal to them and I would agree if I were in their shoes. They are people, not prisoners.

But there you have the problem. Great crowds of people who are unwilling to respect any legal processes seem rather threatening to residents of other places leading to some of the comments mentioned.

And there you have the problem. People who take issue with, an issue (in this case the Turks won't allow them to leave), are deemed to be 'unwilling to respect any legal processes'.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: stew on September 04, 2015, 08:17:20 PM
Take them from the waters and coffin ships, feed them, clothe them and keep them safe, then worry about what to do with them after the fact, their lives come first and foremost and they deserve to be treated like human beings.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Rossfan on September 04, 2015, 11:13:49 PM
Take them from the waters and coffin ships, feed them, clothe them and keep them safe, then worry about what to do with them after the fact, their lives come first and foremost and they deserve to be treated like human beings.

+1.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Oraisteach on September 05, 2015, 03:30:41 AM
Good man, stew. 
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: omaghjoe on September 05, 2015, 03:56:45 AM
The Hungarians seem to have finally seen sense at least

Their prime minster seems like a maniac with all this talk of being "overrun" and "Christian character" talk. I cant think of anything less Christian than his attitude.

I suppose there is still an attitude there, where they believe they are the defenders of Christian Europe against the Muslim hordes, that goes back to where they halted the Ottoman encroachment of the Balkans.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Rossfan on September 05, 2015, 09:54:31 AM
Also stock comments from neo Nazi types across Europe.
As the crisis is being caused by the savage war in Syria why aren't the UN trying to bring it to an end?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: trileacman on September 05, 2015, 10:15:09 AM
Also stock comments from neo Nazi types across Europe.
As the crisis is being caused by the savage war in Syria why aren't the UN trying to bring it to an end?

Because the US and UK have spent the last 3 years trying to inflame the situation.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: stew on September 07, 2015, 02:10:05 PM
Also stock comments from neo Nazi types across Europe.
As the crisis is being caused by the savage war in Syria why aren't the UN trying to bring it to an end?

Because the US and UK have spent the last 3 years trying to inflame the situation.


Thats bullshit, the UN is a useless, spineless knackered organization that stands for nothing, it has stood by in Africa as people were destroyed by militant animals that raped and killed their own, time to disband or reform the fecking thing and give it the teeth it needs to supercede the wants of superpower nations!
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: midLouth on September 07, 2015, 03:09:06 PM
Take them from the waters and coffin ships, feed them, clothe them and keep them safe, then worry about what to do with them after the fact, their lives come first and foremost and they deserve to be treated like human beings.

What we have is akin to winning the lottery. For 2015 that's a sad reflection.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: give her dixie on September 08, 2015, 11:59:10 AM
Take them from the waters and coffin ships, feed them, clothe them and keep them safe, then worry about what to do with them after the fact, their lives come first and foremost and they deserve to be treated like human beings.

One of the best quotes I have heard yet on the current refugee crisis. Good man Stew
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: give her dixie on September 08, 2015, 12:21:15 PM
Well folks, I am hoping to head off this evening with a van load of aid.

While the photo of Aylan Kurdi stirred the worlds conscience, it was the photo from a few days before that of children
washed up on the beach in Libya that  stirred me into action. I contacted my cousin, who has a large Sprinter, and we
agreed that we would head to Calais with aid.

Since then, Calais has been inundated with aid. They can't take any more, so we will head east into Germany and if need be, Hungary.

When I posted the original story of going with aid, I was contacted by the leader of the "Gaza Toy Drive". This dedicated group
collected 4 container loads of aid last year from every corner of Ireland. Despite many attempts, they were unable to get it
delivered to Gaza. Israel and Egypt once again imposing brutal hardship through their inhumane siege that has been ongoing
for nearly 10 years now.

Anyhow, we have loaded our Sprinter with some of this aid that was collected for the children of Gaza. On behalf of the Palestinians,
and the Gaza Toy Drive, we will do our very best to get it to people somewhere in fortress Europe that have endured more
than any of us could ever imagine.

Plus, we will be able to highlight the brutal siege on Gaza, and the fact that nothing is been rebuilt, and nothing is allowed in.
Even children's toys are banned. As we watch aid been donated, and delivered with incredible love and humanity from across the world, we also see at the same time refugees in Gaza been refused any form of aid collected and donated by the people of Ireland
and beyond.

The world is a very cruel place right now, and a handful of gangsters dressed up as Presidents and Prime Ministers are doing everything
in their power to keep wars raging. we only have to look at our own backyard to see how the British Government kept a bloody war going for decades. War is big business, and a handful of very rich people control a handful of very important people.

Anyhow, will keep you updated as best I can as we get on the road..........

This is a link to the Gaza Toy Drive  facebook page

https://www.facebook.com/gazatoydrive?fref=nf

Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: give her dixie on September 08, 2015, 12:29:41 PM
In the midst of all the tragic photos, one story had a happy ending.

Remember this photo?

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


His family have now made it to Berlin where they are staying in a refugee camp

visitors can't see pics , please register or login



http://www.buzzfeed.com/anupkaphle/the-story-behind-a-heartbreaking-photo-of-a-syrian-refugee-f#.cvZXL9vNDm

Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on September 08, 2015, 01:11:58 PM
Fair play GHD
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Franko on September 08, 2015, 01:15:21 PM
+1

Many a 'discussion' we've had on here GHD but you always put your money where your mouth is.

All the best with it.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: stew on September 08, 2015, 01:44:07 PM
Well folks, I am hoping to head off this evening with a van load of aid.

While the photo of Aylan Kurdi stirred the worlds conscience, it was the photo from a few days before that of children
washed up on the beach in Libya that  stirred me into action. I contacted my cousin, who has a large Sprinter, and we
agreed that we would head to Calais with aid.

Since then, Calais has been inundated with aid. They can't take any more, so we will head east into Germany and if need be, Hungary.

When I posted the original story of going with aid, I was contacted by the leader of the "Gaza Toy Drive". This dedicated group
collected 4 container loads of aid last year from every corner of Ireland. Despite many attempts, they were unable to get it
delivered to Gaza. Israel and Egypt once again imposing brutal hardship through their inhumane siege that has been ongoing
for nearly 10 years now.

Anyhow, we have loaded our Sprinter with some of this aid that was collected for the children of Gaza. On behalf of the Palestinians,
and the Gaza Toy Drive, we will do our very best to get it to people somewhere in fortress Europe that have endured more
than any of us could ever imagine.

Plus, we will be able to highlight the brutal siege on Gaza, and the fact that nothing is been rebuilt, and nothing is allowed in.
Even children's toys are banned. As we watch aid been donated, and delivered with incredible love and humanity from across the world, we also see at the same time refugees in Gaza been refused any form of aid collected and donated by the people of Ireland
and beyond.

The world is a very cruel place right now, and a handful of gangsters dressed up as Presidents and Prime Ministers are doing everything
in their power to keep wars raging. we only have to look at our own backyard to see how the British Government kept a bloody war going for decades. War is big business, and a handful of very rich people control a handful of very important people.

Anyhow, will keep you updated as best I can as we get on the road..........

This is a link to the Gaza Toy Drive  facebook page

https://www.facebook.com/gazatoydrive?fref=nf

God Bless you Dixie, you keep giving er Dixie! ( Pardon the pun)
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Declan on September 09, 2015, 07:51:53 AM
Sean Defoe ‏@SeanDefoe  · 28m28 minutes ago 
"Have we forgotten why there are more O'Neills and Murphys living in the US than in Ireland?" asks Jean-Claude Juncker #SOTEU

Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: guy crouchback on September 09, 2015, 08:59:22 AM
Sean Defoe ‏@SeanDefoe  · 28m28 minutes ago 
"Have we forgotten why there are more O'Neills and Murphys living in the US than in Ireland?" asks Jean-Claude Juncker #SOTEU

full article here

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/juncker-there-is-a-reason-there-are-more-murphys-and-oneills-living-in-us-than-ireland-31513232.html
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on September 09, 2015, 12:36:13 PM
Sean Defoe ‏@SeanDefoe  · 28m28 minutes ago 
"Have we forgotten why there are more O'Neills and Murphys living in the US than in Ireland?" asks Jean-Claude Juncker #SOTEU

I find that extremely offensive.

Back then the Irish were forced to hand over all of their wealth to foreign landowners who had accumulated massive debts building up their large tracts of land in Ireland. Much like the bank bailout really. The most generous of the landlords paid for them to go on coffin ships, just to get rid of them.

I want to see Ireland do its bit, but I find this lecturing from Europe extremely tiresome. Remember this week the ECB has given the two fingers to our inquiry into the bank collapse. They claim they are not subject to our laws.

So we haven't forgotten Jean-Claude. But you have.

Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Esmarelda on September 09, 2015, 02:15:34 PM
It's great to see such intelligent responses on this thread. I've been on many a website over the last few days and what this sorry episode highlights for me is the level of ignorance, sectarianism and outright inhumanity that's present both here and in the UK.

All the best to Give Her Dixie on his trip.

This isn't a black and white issue for any government in Europe but a willingness to help and empathise is a starting point.

I'm not hearing much noise for the U.S. either.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: AZOffaly on September 09, 2015, 02:18:15 PM
Some of the stuff I've seen in comments sections on Facebook etc would make you sad. I saw some lad up in Belfast was having a vigil or something, and responses were just heartless, ignorant and inflammatory. And remember on Facebook it's your real name 90% of the time. They seemed to be proud of what they were saying.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: general_lee on September 10, 2015, 10:25:52 AM
http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0910/726850-govt-to-meet-to-discuss-refugees/

Accepting 4,000 refugees. I'm sure we could and should be taking more.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: finbar o tool on September 10, 2015, 10:49:49 AM
if they were all genuine cases of being bombed out of their country and left with absolutely nothing, then yes, bring in a few and look after them for a while. but my problem is i simply don't believe ALL of these "refugees" are in fact refugees. its like a snowball that started in Syria and they've picked up lots of other migrants etc on the way across Europe, add in to the equation that back in February ISIS stated they would infiltrate Europe in disguise of refugees/migrants and "Europe wont know what hit it". is it really that far fetched to think that they would do something like that?? i certainly don't think so.
in a nut shell, we have no clue who we are letting into our country or what they're motives are apart from the few genuine cases.
why is it mostly well dressed, well built, clean shaven men flooding in? why are they not staying behind to fight for their country?
anyone look at Vincent Browne the other night on our own homeless crisis? how can you say 'yea lets help thousands of people from some other far away country before we help our own people' after watching that?
as usual we are bending over for the EU. its impossible not to be moved by THAT picture and others, but we as a country are still in recovery mode, we've enough shit to be dealing with here and we should be looking after our own before helping god knows who.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: AZOffaly on September 10, 2015, 10:53:17 AM
The pictures are puzzling alright. God knows I feel sympathy, and feel we should help, families who are in fear of their lives. But these pictures look to be primarily young, healthy men. Where are the women and kids? I heard someone saying they were being left behind so the men could prepare the ground for them, which would be a very natural thing if you are an economic migrant. I did that myself going to America. Went over, got sorted out, girlfriend followed.

But would you leave your wife/children in a war zone? I certainly wouldn't. I would love to know the breakdown of families versus single men or groups of men.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on September 10, 2015, 11:32:35 AM
we've enough shit to be dealing with here and we should be looking after our own before helping god knows who.

Our function throughout history is either to:

a) bicker viciously and pointlessly amongst ourselves;

or

b) be fooled or bullied into transferring any wealth generated here to foreigners;


I'd rather take in loads of refugees. The might teach us something.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: ziggysego on September 10, 2015, 11:46:39 AM
A friend of mine's on Facebook posted Roy Chubby's Brown's - "I am an asylum seeker" on his wall. which he captioned - "f**k off home, we're British".

Disgusted with it.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: AZOffaly on September 10, 2015, 11:50:27 AM
A friend of mine's on Facebook posted Roy Chubby's Brown's - "I am an asylum seeker" on his wall. which he captioned - "f**k off home, we're British".

Disgusted with it.

There is some horrible racist stuff about. A lot of people are frightened by ISIS and the like. I think if ISIS wanted to get cells into Europe, they'd do a slightly better job of hiding themselves.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: finbar o tool on September 10, 2015, 12:03:02 PM
we've enough shit to be dealing with here and we should be looking after our own before helping god knows who.

Our function throughout history is either to:

a) bicker viciously and pointlessly amongst ourselves;

or

b) be fooled or bullied into transferring any wealth generated here to foreigners;


I'd rather take in loads of refugees. The might teach us something.

what?!

also, its perfect for ISIS to pretend to be refugees. they aren't going to mingle with the crowd with machetes or bombs strapped to their chests!! they just have to get into countries and start from there. they are certainly evil enough.
but look, im not saying ISIS are invading Europe here but it is a possibility, and not only that but its the simple fact that we dont know who these people are or what their past is.
we have special needs children here in this country who cant get the help they need, cant get a feckin medical card! old people lying in the hallways of hospitals. ordinary families made homeless by greedy banks and landlords. etc etc etc.
am i worried about some folk from Syria having a hard time, no im not, f**k that.
 
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on September 10, 2015, 12:13:03 PM
we've enough shit to be dealing with here and we should be looking after our own before helping god knows who.

Our function throughout history is either to:

a) bicker viciously and pointlessly amongst ourselves;

or

b) be fooled or bullied into transferring any wealth generated here to foreigners;


I'd rather take in loads of refugees. The might teach us something.

what?!

also, its perfect for ISIS to pretend to be refugees. they aren't going to mingle with the crowd with machetes or bombs strapped to their chests!! they just have to get into countries and start from there. they are certainly evil enough.
but look, im not saying ISIS are invading Europe here but it is a possibility, and not only that but its the simple fact that we dont know who these people are or what their past is.
we have special needs children here in this country who cant get the help they need, cant get a feckin medical card! old people lying in the hallways of hospitals. ordinary families made homeless by greedy banks and landlords. etc etc etc.
am i worried about some folk from Syria having a hard time, no im not, f**k that.
 

Good man.

ISIS is coming to get you.

Can you give us any evidence at all that ISIS wants to invade us in Ireland, or has attempted to do anything remotely connected to invading us?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: guy crouchback on September 10, 2015, 12:14:44 PM
The pictures are puzzling alright. God knows I feel sympathy, and feel we should help, families who are in fear of their lives. But these pictures look to be primarily young, healthy men. Where are the women and kids? I heard someone saying they were being left behind so the men could prepare the ground for them, which would be a very natural thing if you are an economic migrant. I did that myself going to America. Went over, got sorted out, girlfriend followed.

But would you leave your wife/children in a war zone? I certainly wouldn't. I would love to know the breakdown of families versus single men or groups of men.

there was a syrian man on marian finucane last Saturday, he had been a maths teacher and farmer. he fled Syria with his wife and kids and went through Lebanon. he left his wife and kids in a refugee camp there i think ( or possibly turkey) and carried on himself across the med into Greece and eventually to Ireland (people traffickers). when granted asylum here he then sent for his wife and kids who are now in ireland with him.

so it seemed people firstly try and get the family out of syria and then if they can leave them somewhere out of the immediate line of fire carry on alone and hope to get sorted out so they can send for them. this requires a certain amount of funds that not all will have  so others have  to travel as family.

that's what i got from his story anyway.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on September 10, 2015, 12:17:39 PM
I hope you're on the WUM finbar

And if you propose not accepting refugees, then what do you propose Europe does??

It is worth noting though that the people that are coming here are mainly the better-off Syrians / Eritreans / AN other - the poorer ones simply connot afford to pay the smugglers and are left behind. Most have sold whatever they had to make the journey.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on September 10, 2015, 12:22:59 PM
The pictures are puzzling alright. God knows I feel sympathy, and feel we should help, families who are in fear of their lives. But these pictures look to be primarily young, healthy men. Where are the women and kids? I heard someone saying they were being left behind so the men could prepare the ground for them, which would be a very natural thing if you are an economic migrant. I did that myself going to America. Went over, got sorted out, girlfriend followed.

But would you leave your wife/children in a war zone? I certainly wouldn't. I would love to know the breakdown of families versus single men or groups of men.

there was a syrian man on marian finucane last Saturday, he had been a maths teacher and farmer. he fled Syria with his wife and kids and went through Lebanon. he left his wife and kids in a refugee camp there i think ( or possibly turkey) and carried on himself across the med into Greece and eventually to Ireland (people traffickers). when granted asylum here he then sent for his wife and kids who are now in ireland with him.

so it seemed people firstly try and get the family out of syria and then if they can leave them somewhere out of the immediate line of fire carry on alone and hope to get sorted out so they can send for them. this requires a certain amount of funds that not all will have  so others have  to travel as family.

that's what i got from his story anyway.

A kid at my son's school has a father from Syria and a mother from Lebanon. The Dad works in IT and the mother also works. The mother helps out at coaching camogie and U-7s football for the local GAA club. They contribute far more to our society than some of our countrymen.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: AZOffaly on September 10, 2015, 12:35:17 PM
That would make sense guy. (Muppet, I'm not sure why you introduced that anecdote, I'm not suggesting we don't help the needy, and I'm sure they'll be additions to society). But then wouldn't that suggest the refugee camps in Turkey etc would be full of women and children as the men go to Hungary or wherever. I'm not seeing that in the pictures. It looks like at least 75% of the people are young men.

Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: guy crouchback on September 10, 2015, 12:48:31 PM
one of the issues for young men is that if they stay they are often forcibly conscripted by which ever side are in control in their area whether it is Assad , IS, or one of the rebel groups. their parents will pay the people smugglers to get them out of the country before they end up a solider.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: AZOffaly on September 10, 2015, 12:50:08 PM
one of the issues for young men is that if they stay they are often forcibly conscripted by which ever side are in control in their area whether it is Assad , IS, or one of the rebel groups. their parents will pay the people smugglers to get them out of the country before they end up a solider.

And the parents, or wives and kids, stay behind?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: nrico2006 on September 10, 2015, 12:51:32 PM
Are they still refugees if they don't settle in the first safe country they get to? 
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: guy crouchback on September 10, 2015, 12:59:22 PM
one of the issues for young men is that if they stay they are often forcibly conscripted by which ever side are in control in their area whether it is Assad , IS, or one of the rebel groups. their parents will pay the people smugglers to get them out of the country before they end up a solider.

And the parents, or wives and kids, stay behind?

i suppose.
 if you were living in belfast during the troubles and the bombs and bullets were flying life would be pretty stressful. if one night you got word that the IRA/UVF were lining your son up for membership followed by a bit of active service i'm sure you would want him out of there ASAP.

there are going to be more young men because out from the above reason they have noting to lose by going. they can rough it easier then a family they can move quicker and endure more, this does not make them less of a refugee or make them less deserving of our help.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: AZOffaly on September 10, 2015, 01:00:59 PM
It doesn't, but I'd certainly prioritise familys with kids, or kids on their own, over young healthy looking lads.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: guy crouchback on September 10, 2015, 01:11:05 PM
absolutely and they should be treated in different ways on arrival, I'm a massive opponent of the present direct provision system and would if possible try and keep families out of it but for single men it is fine especially if its only for a relatively short period of time ( months not years)
the Syrian man who i mentioned earlier spent 5 months in direct provision and had no complaints and why should he, he was safe and was being processed in a timely manner and now he is out of it with his family, he is studying for a masters degree in maths he came with no english and now speaks well, his kids are in school and are thriving. he and his family are an addition to our society.
there is no reason that  the vast majority of these people can't come here and add to our society even the young men.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: AZOffaly on September 10, 2015, 01:15:48 PM
I agree. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't turn away any deserving case, but I'd prioritise the most vulnerable of them. And don't just take them in and make ghettos, I think that would be a mistake, place a few families at a time in areas all over the country and let them be integrated.

Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: finbar o tool on September 10, 2015, 01:41:18 PM
we've enough shit to be dealing with here and we should be looking after our own before helping god knows who.

Our function throughout history is either to:

a) bicker viciously and pointlessly amongst ourselves;

or

b) be fooled or bullied into transferring any wealth generated here to foreigners;


I'd rather take in loads of refugees. The might teach us something.

what?!

also, its perfect for ISIS to pretend to be refugees. they aren't going to mingle with the crowd with machetes or bombs strapped to their chests!! they just have to get into countries and start from there. they are certainly evil enough.
but look, im not saying ISIS are invading Europe here but it is a possibility, and not only that but its the simple fact that we dont know who these people are or what their past is.
we have special needs children here in this country who cant get the help they need, cant get a feckin medical card! old people lying in the hallways of hospitals. ordinary families made homeless by greedy banks and landlords. etc etc etc.
am i worried about some folk from Syria having a hard time, no im not, f**k that.
 

Good man.

ISIS is coming to get you.

Can you give us any evidence at all that ISIS wants to invade us in Ireland, or has attempted to do anything remotely connected to invading us?

the fact that they stated themselves they would send thousands of soldiers throughout Europe disguised as migrants/refugees back in February is enough for me. everyone knows they're crazy enough! like i said, it certainly is a possibility!

for me it all goes back to the carry on that's happening in this country at the moment and how we are being treated. that shit needs to be sorted before we go helping other countries.
as to what can be done? i don't know, i don't care either. i have a friend with a son who has special needs and he cant get the help he needs due to this godforsaken government, id like to see things like that looked at before we have 4000 other mouths to feed and cloth etc, and how long will that go on?!
there's a video starting to go viral on social media at the moment of migrants causing havoc in a town in Greece, look it up.
i wouldn't trust the EU or the UN to organize a piss up in a brewery. this is not going to end well.
i also seen the lovely gesture that 'dixie' is doing filling his sprinter van and heading to Germany. that's great. but. why don't people try do something similar for our own people. drive up to Dublin and hand out food and blankets to our own homeless people?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: finbar o tool on September 10, 2015, 01:47:41 PM
and look at this shit now from Merkel.... more bullying

"Germany's leader, Angela Merkel, is warning other European Union countries there will be "consequences" if they refuse to sign up to quotas for refugees."
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: AZOffaly on September 10, 2015, 01:56:45 PM
and look at this shit now from Merkel.... more bullying

"Germany's leader, Angela Merkel, is warning other European Union countries there will be "consequences" if they refuse to sign up to quotas for refugees."

I do have a hard time listening to Germany, of all places, pontificating about refugees and looking after people.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: general_lee on September 10, 2015, 02:04:38 PM
we've enough shit to be dealing with here and we should be looking after our own before helping god knows who.

Our function throughout history is either to:

a) bicker viciously and pointlessly amongst ourselves;

or

b) be fooled or bullied into transferring any wealth generated here to foreigners;


I'd rather take in loads of refugees. The might teach us something.

what?!

also, its perfect for ISIS to pretend to be refugees. they aren't going to mingle with the crowd with machetes or bombs strapped to their chests!! they just have to get into countries and start from there. they are certainly evil enough.
but look, im not saying ISIS are invading Europe here but it is a possibility, and not only that but its the simple fact that we dont know who these people are or what their past is.
we have special needs children here in this country who cant get the help they need, cant get a feckin medical card! old people lying in the hallways of hospitals. ordinary families made homeless by greedy banks and landlords. etc etc etc.
am i worried about some folk from Syria having a hard time, no im not, f**k that.
 

Good man.

ISIS is coming to get you.

Can you give us any evidence at all that ISIS wants to invade us in Ireland, or has attempted to do anything remotely connected to invading us?

the fact that they stated themselves they would send thousands of soldiers throughout Europe disguised as migrants/refugees back in February is enough for me. everyone knows they're crazy enough! like i said, it certainly is a possibility!

for me it all goes back to the carry on that's happening in this country at the moment and how we are being treated. that shit needs to be sorted before we go helping other countries.
as to what can be done? i don't know, i don't care either. i have a friend with a son who has special needs and he cant get the help he needs due to this godforsaken government, id like to see things like that looked at before we have 4000 other mouths to feed and cloth etc, and how long will that go on?!
there's a video starting to go viral on social media at the moment of migrants causing havoc in a town in Greece, look it up.
i wouldn't trust the EU or the UN to organize a piss up in a brewery. this is not going to end well.
i also seen the lovely gesture that 'dixie' is doing filling his sprinter van and heading to Germany. that's great. but. why don't people try do something similar for our own people. drive up to Dublin and hand out food and blankets to our own homeless people?
4,000 is a drop in the ocean compared to the hundreds of thousands who have left these shores in the last number of years in search of work thanks to the government. It's an even tinier drop in the ocean compared to what other countries are taking in in terms of numbers.

You're argument is ridiculous, unless you want the country to pull out of the EU? Until that ever happens, and I for one hope it doesn't, certain responsibilities need to be met both obligatory and moral. Yes there's a homeless problem here too and again we have the government and greedy landlords to thank for that. And it's a relatively easy one to solve but again due to the people who have been voted in, who's interests do not lie with helping the poor and vulnerable, little will be done until (hopefully) after elections.

Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on September 10, 2015, 02:18:34 PM
Solution: Temporary visas for refugees until the situation calms down then they should return to their homeplace.

It's very gracious of Fitzgerald and Kenny to accept 5000 new dependents who will be totally reliant on the taxpayer. What's the cost per person that we're taking in? I'll guess that they'll get medical cards, free housing, cars and the health boards will give them allowances to fill their shopping trolleys like all the bogus asylum seekers have done before.
Yet people who have paid tax all their lives get screwed over.

It's not right.





Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: AZOffaly on September 10, 2015, 02:21:36 PM
Solution: Temporary visas for refugees until the situation calms down then they should return to their homeplace.

It's very gracious of Fitzgerald and Kenny to accept 5000 new dependents who will be totally reliant on the taxpayer. What's the cost per person that we're taking in? I'll guess that they'll get medical cards, free housing, cars and the health boards will give them allowances to fill their shopping trolleys like all the bogus asylum seekers have done before.
Yet people who have paid tax all their lives get screwed over.

It's not right.

€6,000 per person apparently. €12,000 with €6,000 being contributed by EU. These refugees will *not* go through direct provision, and as such will be entitled to work. I would say the vast majority of these people will be delighted to work.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Esmarelda on September 10, 2015, 02:22:17 PM
Finbar, on the assumption that you're not a WUM, you've made the point twice that you don't care what happens these refugees, so why bother with any more of your points?

You talk about your friend's kid with special needs being a priority; every government in the world, no matter how affluent, would like to be a little bit moreso.

I'd prefer to be taxed at 19% rather than 20% but if it was 19% I'd prefer it to be 18%. It's hardly a reason to reject a large group of people fleeing for their lives.

The Tánaiste has said that the Irish programme will focus on mainly women and children.

It's a rare moment that I feel pride in our government.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: AZOffaly on September 10, 2015, 02:23:34 PM
Finbar, on the assumption that you're not a WUM, you've made the point twice that you don't care what happens these refugees, so why bother with any more of your points?

You talk about your friend's kid with special needs being a priority; every government in the world, no matter how affluent, would like to be a little bit moreso.

I'd prefer to be taxed at 19% rather than 20% but if it was 19% I'd prefer it to be 18%. It's hardly a reason to reject a large group of people fleeing for their lives.

The Tánaiste has said that the Irish programme will focus on mainly women and children.

It's a rare moment that I feel pride in our government.

If this is the case, then I am delighted. Maybe we'll get a few more hurlers and footballers out of them as well :)
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on September 10, 2015, 02:30:21 PM
That would make sense guy. (Muppet, I'm not sure why you introduced that anecdote, I'm not suggesting we don't help the needy, and I'm sure they'll be additions to society). But then wouldn't that suggest the refugee camps in Turkey etc would be full of women and children as the men go to Hungary or wherever. I'm not seeing that in the pictures. It looks like at least 75% of the people are young men.

My point was more for the other poster arguing against refugees on the basis of cut backs. But my post did quote yours which confused the issue.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: AZOffaly on September 10, 2015, 02:33:28 PM
That would make sense guy. (Muppet, I'm not sure why you introduced that anecdote, I'm not suggesting we don't help the needy, and I'm sure they'll be additions to society). But then wouldn't that suggest the refugee camps in Turkey etc would be full of women and children as the men go to Hungary or wherever. I'm not seeing that in the pictures. It looks like at least 75% of the people are young men.

My point was more for the other poster arguing against refugees on the basis of cut backs. But my post did quote yours which confused the issue.

Fair enough. I think we're probably fairly aligned in our thinking on this one. Nobody likes to see innocent people suffer, and when something can be done about it, it should be done.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on September 10, 2015, 02:38:55 PM
That would make sense guy. (Muppet, I'm not sure why you introduced that anecdote, I'm not suggesting we don't help the needy, and I'm sure they'll be additions to society). But then wouldn't that suggest the refugee camps in Turkey etc would be full of women and children as the men go to Hungary or wherever. I'm not seeing that in the pictures. It looks like at least 75% of the people are young men.

My point was more for the other poster arguing against refugees on the basis of cut backs. But my post did quote yours which confused the issue.

Fair enough. I think we're probably fairly aligned in our thinking on this one. Nobody likes to see innocent people suffer, and when something can be done about it, it should be done.

I agree. I don't buy that these people are economic tourists or, in particular, part of some ISIS plot to plant sleepers here.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on September 10, 2015, 02:52:49 PM
That would make sense guy. (Muppet, I'm not sure why you introduced that anecdote, I'm not suggesting we don't help the needy, and I'm sure they'll be additions to society). But then wouldn't that suggest the refugee camps in Turkey etc would be full of women and children as the men go to Hungary or wherever. I'm not seeing that in the pictures. It looks like at least 75% of the people are young men.

My point was more for the other poster arguing against refugees on the basis of cut backs. But my post did quote yours which confused the issue.

Fair enough. I think we're probably fairly aligned in our thinking on this one. Nobody likes to see innocent people suffer, and when something can be done about it, it should be done.

I agree. I don't buy that these people are economic tourists or, in particular, part of some ISIS plot to plant sleepers here.

Just invite the whole of the middle east and africa over to live off welfare. Might as well. Some of the bleeding hearts will advocate it.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: mikehunt on September 10, 2015, 03:06:20 PM
Kenny the schnake will grant them citizenship not as an act of kindness but as a method of vote getting. Have you seen the numbers getting citizenship the last few years? This govt would never do anything for the good of Irish society nevermind anyone else's.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on September 10, 2015, 03:13:34 PM
Foxy & mikey back together again, it's been a while lads  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Esmarelda on September 10, 2015, 03:15:37 PM
That would make sense guy. (Muppet, I'm not sure why you introduced that anecdote, I'm not suggesting we don't help the needy, and I'm sure they'll be additions to society). But then wouldn't that suggest the refugee camps in Turkey etc would be full of women and children as the men go to Hungary or wherever. I'm not seeing that in the pictures. It looks like at least 75% of the people are young men.

My point was more for the other poster arguing against refugees on the basis of cut backs. But my post did quote yours which confused the issue.

Fair enough. I think we're probably fairly aligned in our thinking on this one. Nobody likes to see innocent people suffer, and when something can be done about it, it should be done.

I agree. I don't buy that these people are economic tourists or, in particular, part of some ISIS plot to plant sleepers here.

Just invite the whole of the middle east and africa over to live off welfare. Might as well. Some of the bleeding hearts will advocate it.
Do you have a view on it? One that isn't exaggerated or sarcastic?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Hardy on September 10, 2015, 04:01:50 PM
That would make sense guy. (Muppet, I'm not sure why you introduced that anecdote, I'm not suggesting we don't help the needy, and I'm sure they'll be additions to society). But then wouldn't that suggest the refugee camps in Turkey etc would be full of women and children as the men go to Hungary or wherever. I'm not seeing that in the pictures. It looks like at least 75% of the people are young men.

My point was more for the other poster arguing against refugees on the basis of cut backs. But my post did quote yours which confused the issue.

Fair enough. I think we're probably fairly aligned in our thinking on this one. Nobody likes to see innocent people suffer, and when something can be done about it, it should be done.

I agree. I don't buy that these people are economic tourists or, in particular, part of some ISIS plot to plant sleepers here.

Just invite the whole of the middle east and africa over to live off welfare. Might as well. Some of the bleeding hearts will advocate it.


What's your position on whether refugees should pay water charges?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Hardy on September 10, 2015, 04:03:28 PM
Kenny the schnake will grant them citizenship not as an act of kindness but as a method of vote getting. Have you seen the numbers getting citizenship the last few years? This govt would never do anything for the good of Irish society nevermind anyone else's.

Coming over here, taking our citizenship ...
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on September 10, 2015, 04:08:29 PM
That would make sense guy. (Muppet, I'm not sure why you introduced that anecdote, I'm not suggesting we don't help the needy, and I'm sure they'll be additions to society). But then wouldn't that suggest the refugee camps in Turkey etc would be full of women and children as the men go to Hungary or wherever. I'm not seeing that in the pictures. It looks like at least 75% of the people are young men.

My point was more for the other poster arguing against refugees on the basis of cut backs. But my post did quote yours which confused the issue.

Fair enough. I think we're probably fairly aligned in our thinking on this one. Nobody likes to see innocent people suffer, and when something can be done about it, it should be done.

I agree. I don't buy that these people are economic tourists or, in particular, part of some ISIS plot to plant sleepers here.

Just invite the whole of the middle east and africa over to live off welfare. Might as well. Some of the bleeding hearts will advocate it.


What's your position on whether refugees should pay water charges?
Do you have a view on it? One that isn't exaggerated or sarcastic? (nod to esmerelda)  ::)
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on September 10, 2015, 04:09:12 PM
Kenny the schnake will grant them citizenship not as an act of kindness but as a method of vote getting. Have you seen the numbers getting citizenship the last few years? This govt would never do anything for the good of Irish society nevermind anyone else's.

Coming over here, taking our citizenship ...

Kenny & Co can't give it away fast enough.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Esmarelda on September 10, 2015, 04:26:59 PM
That would make sense guy. (Muppet, I'm not sure why you introduced that anecdote, I'm not suggesting we don't help the needy, and I'm sure they'll be additions to society). But then wouldn't that suggest the refugee camps in Turkey etc would be full of women and children as the men go to Hungary or wherever. I'm not seeing that in the pictures. It looks like at least 75% of the people are young men.

My point was more for the other poster arguing against refugees on the basis of cut backs. But my post did quote yours which confused the issue.

Fair enough. I think we're probably fairly aligned in our thinking on this one. Nobody likes to see innocent people suffer, and when something can be done about it, it should be done.

I agree. I don't buy that these people are economic tourists or, in particular, part of some ISIS plot to plant sleepers here.

Just invite the whole of the middle east and africa over to live off welfare. Might as well. Some of the bleeding hearts will advocate it.


What's your position on whether refugees should pay water charges?
Do you have a view on it? One that isn't exaggerated or sarcastic? (nod to esmerelda)  ::)
So no view? Just the one answer fits all emoticon?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on September 10, 2015, 04:29:39 PM
That would make sense guy. (Muppet, I'm not sure why you introduced that anecdote, I'm not suggesting we don't help the needy, and I'm sure they'll be additions to society). But then wouldn't that suggest the refugee camps in Turkey etc would be full of women and children as the men go to Hungary or wherever. I'm not seeing that in the pictures. It looks like at least 75% of the people are young men.

My point was more for the other poster arguing against refugees on the basis of cut backs. But my post did quote yours which confused the issue.

Fair enough. I think we're probably fairly aligned in our thinking on this one. Nobody likes to see innocent people suffer, and when something can be done about it, it should be done.

I agree. I don't buy that these people are economic tourists or, in particular, part of some ISIS plot to plant sleepers here.

Just invite the whole of the middle east and africa over to live off welfare. Might as well. Some of the bleeding hearts will advocate it.
Do you have a view on it? One that isn't exaggerated or sarcastic?
Who said it was exaggerated or sarcastic?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on September 10, 2015, 04:45:43 PM
Tourists On Greek Island Disgusted By Refugees

https://youtu.be/xQzyKYo7ggo (https://youtu.be/xQzyKYo7ggo)

The Daily Mail. They seem to have beaten Fox News to the punch on this one.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Esmarelda on September 10, 2015, 05:22:15 PM
That would make sense guy. (Muppet, I'm not sure why you introduced that anecdote, I'm not suggesting we don't help the needy, and I'm sure they'll be additions to society). But then wouldn't that suggest the refugee camps in Turkey etc would be full of women and children as the men go to Hungary or wherever. I'm not seeing that in the pictures. It looks like at least 75% of the people are young men.

My point was more for the other poster arguing against refugees on the basis of cut backs. But my post did quote yours which confused the issue.

Fair enough. I think we're probably fairly aligned in our thinking on this one. Nobody likes to see innocent people suffer, and when something can be done about it, it should be done.

I agree. I don't buy that these people are economic tourists or, in particular, part of some ISIS plot to plant sleepers here.

Just invite the whole of the middle east and africa over to live off welfare. Might as well. Some of the bleeding hearts will advocate it.
Do you have a view on it? One that isn't exaggerated or sarcastic?
Who said it was exaggerated or sarcastic?
::) ;)
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: mikehunt on September 10, 2015, 06:11:17 PM
Quote from: mikehunt thlink=topic=26222.msg1513247#msg1513247 date=1441897580
Kenny the schnake will grant them citizenship not as an act of kindness but as a method of vote getting. Have you seen the numbers getting citizenship the last few years? This govt would never do anything for the good of Irish society nevermind anyone else's.

Coming over here, taking our citizenship ...

They have it bad. Having to decide between returning home and have ISIS rule them or come here and have a redacted dictator govern them.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on September 10, 2015, 08:05:40 PM
Apparently approx 3500 of the 4k will go into the direct provision system  >:(
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on September 10, 2015, 08:45:52 PM
Quote from: mikehunt thlink=topic=26222.msg1513247#msg1513247 date=1441897580
Kenny the schnake will grant them citizenship not as an act of kindness but as a method of vote getting. Have you seen the numbers getting citizenship the last few years? This govt would never do anything for the good of Irish society nevermind anyone else's.

Coming over here, taking our citizenship ...

They have it bad. Having to decide between returning home and have ISIS rule them or come here and have a redacted dictator govern them.

ISIS or Enda. what a choice.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on September 10, 2015, 09:44:33 PM
Apparently approx 3500 of the 4k will go into the direct provision system  >:(

A wait of 3-7 years for them so.

http://www.nascireland.org/campaigns-for-change/direct-provision/ (http://www.nascireland.org/campaigns-for-change/direct-provision/)

We obviously need to at least interview and do some sort of checks on them (no lunatics please). However 3 years of hanging around doing nothing in a camp is ridiculous. They could join the Civil Service and do that.  :D
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on September 11, 2015, 01:43:58 AM
Remember refugees - don't forget your selfie stick as you're fooling the EU

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


For those genuinely in need of help theres all these other #$#$ who are out to milk the generosity of other countries.

How there are no controls on this new influx of refugees into Europe is beyond me. And why Europe?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: stew on September 11, 2015, 05:18:10 AM
That would make sense guy. (Muppet, I'm not sure why you introduced that anecdote, I'm not suggesting we don't help the needy, and I'm sure they'll be additions to society). But then wouldn't that suggest the refugee camps in Turkey etc would be full of women and children as the men go to Hungary or wherever. I'm not seeing that in the pictures. It looks like at least 75% of the people are young men.

My point was more for the other poster arguing against refugees on the basis of cut backs. But my post did quote yours which confused the issue.

Fair enough. I think we're probably fairly aligned in our thinking on this one. Nobody likes to see innocent people suffer, and when something can be done about it, it should be done.

I agree. I don't buy that these people are economic tourists or, in particular, part of some ISIS plot to plant sleepers here.

Just invite the whole of the middle east and africa over to live off welfare. Might as well. Some of the bleeding hearts will advocate it.

People are dying, they are refugees, if you cannot take care of people who are probably going to die if they don't get the help,they need. what good are you.

Be happy you aren't one,of them hanging onto a boat, if you were you would have a much different opinion.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: AZOffaly on September 11, 2015, 07:45:16 AM
Apparently approx 3500 of the 4k will go into the direct provision system  >:(

Where did you hear that? I thought Burton said 90% of the refugees would not be going into direct provision.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on September 11, 2015, 08:04:23 AM
Apparently approx 3500 of the 4k will go into the direct provision system  >:(

Where did you hear that? I thought Burton said 90% of the refugees would not be going into direct provision.

Drivetime yesterday. Haven't heard it repeated though. Apparently there's a refugee resettlement program and a refugee relocation program and only one gives immediate refugee status and thereby avoids direct provision.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: give her dixie on September 11, 2015, 08:32:55 AM
Got the aid delivered yesterday in the refugee camp known as "The Jungle" in Calais.

Around 5,000 people from across Africa and the Middle East are living there, and hundreds are arriving each week.

As I was leaving yesterday, 13 people from Afghanistan arrived. They just had the clothes they arrived wearing,
and within 20 minutes they got tents, bedding, clothes and food.

This was one of them, Mohammed Nazir, 16, fleeing Afghanistan.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Franko on September 11, 2015, 08:38:41 AM
The EU should be sending the bill for all of this to the Yanks and Brits.  They kicked it all off.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on September 11, 2015, 08:49:32 AM
Good man GHD
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: mikehunt on September 11, 2015, 09:05:15 AM
The EU should be sending the bill for all of this to the Yanks and Brits.  They kicked it all off.

French have a lot to answer for too as north Africa was thier colony. Maybe if they stopped sending weapons in to those countries it would slow down the war but no, too much money to be made out of arms dealing.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Itchy on September 11, 2015, 05:14:25 PM
I think I speak for the majority when I say  foxcommander I hope you die roaring you horrible ****.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on September 11, 2015, 05:39:15 PM
I think I speak for the majority when I say  foxcommander I hope you die roaring you horrible ****.

This is what you come out with because I disagree with your viewpoint....
Where's the moderators on this board?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Itchy on September 11, 2015, 05:44:55 PM
I think I speak for the majority when I say  foxcommander I hope you die roaring you horrible ****.

This is what you come out with because I disagree with your viewpoint....
Where's the moderators on this board?

Are ya going to go crying to the mods now too. sure them mods are all in Isis and it's all part of a plot to take over Ireland with Muslims at the expense of thorough bred Irish like you. They are all out to get you.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on September 11, 2015, 06:05:53 PM
I think I speak for the majority when I say  foxcommander I hope you die roaring you horrible ****.

This is what you come out with because I disagree with your viewpoint....
Where's the moderators on this board?

Are ya going to go crying to the mods now too. sure them mods are all in Isis and it's all part of a plot to take over Ireland with Muslims at the expense of thorough bred Irish like you. They are all out to get you.

Can you clarify which comment sent you over the edge? Selfie-Sticks?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Itchy on September 11, 2015, 08:53:32 PM
Nah, your just a silly bollix and I thought you should know it. No need to thank me. WAtch out, Isis are everywhere! Your postman could be in Isis and they have your laptop hacked, they know what you dream. Best be safe, keep all people away from you.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: armaghniac on September 11, 2015, 09:04:18 PM
As I was leaving yesterday, 13 people from Afghanistan arrived. They just had the clothes they arrived wearing,
and within 20 minutes they got tents, bedding, clothes and food.

 Afghanistan is a long way from Calais. The leaving of  Afghanistan may have been motivated by a need to flee, but the choice of destination is a simple economic one.

In this matter these issues are conflated, and simplistic pronouncements (here and elsewhere) don't really capture the problem.

Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on September 11, 2015, 09:11:16 PM
Nah, your just a silly bollix and I thought you should know it. No need to thank me. WAtch out, Isis are everywhere! Your postman could be in Isis and they have your laptop hacked, they know what you dream. Best be safe, keep all people away from you.

So you can't actually tell me why you made such a comment. Is wishing people painful deaths acceptable on this board?

You can apologise by PM if it saves you embarrassment.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Itchy on September 11, 2015, 09:26:36 PM
Nah, your just a silly bollix and I thought you should know it. No need to thank me. WAtch out, Isis are everywhere! Your postman could be in Isis and they have your laptop hacked, they know what you dream. Best be safe, keep all people away from you.

So you can't actually tell me why you made such a comment. Is wishing people painful deaths acceptable on this board?

You can apologise by PM if it saves you embarrassment.
I can't use PMs as they are tracked by Isis. Did you know anyone that is even a bit brown is in Isis and all those kids you see on the news trying to get to Europe, well you guessed it - Isis.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: gallsman on September 12, 2015, 08:59:52 AM
I think I speak for the majority when I say  foxcommander I hope you die roaring you horrible ****.

I think you presume too much on who you speak for.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Rossfan on September 12, 2015, 10:11:48 AM
Thankfully I blocked foxeejit months ago. 8)
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on September 12, 2015, 04:48:33 PM
I think I speak for the majority when I say  foxcommander I hope you die roaring you horrible ****.

I think you presume too much on who you speak for.

Thanks Gallsman for speaking up.

There is no need for that sort of comment directed at another poster and for no apparent reason other than having a differing point of view.
Had I have wished someone dead then i'm sure i'd get dogs abuse from the usual suspects. Or is that's ok now? I'll take silence as being a green light...
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Itchy on September 12, 2015, 05:12:20 PM
I think I speak for the majority when I say  foxcommander I hope you die roaring you horrible ****.

I think you presume too much on who you speak for.

Thanks Gallsman for speaking up.

There is no need for that sort of comment directed at another poster and for no apparent reason other than having a differing point of view.
Had I have wished someone dead then i'm sure i'd get dogs abuse from the usual suspects. Or is that's ok now? I'll take silence as being a green light...

I think you should take it as a green light. Poor fox looking for sympathy from other posters! Didn't see too much sympathy in your own posts.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Mayo4Sam14 on September 12, 2015, 06:25:38 PM
I think I speak for the majority when I say  foxcommander I hope you die roaring you horrible ****.

I think you presume too much on who you speak for.

Thanks Gallsman for speaking up.

There is no need for that sort of comment directed at another poster and for no apparent reason other than having a differing point of view.
Had I have wished someone dead then i'm sure i'd get dogs abuse from the usual suspects. Or is that's ok now? I'll take silence as being a green light...

I think you should take it as a green light. Poor fox looking for sympathy from other posters! Didn't see too much sympathy in your own posts.

Stop man, there's no need for abuse, totally uncalled for
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: give her dixie on September 12, 2015, 07:46:04 PM
Hey folks, I just got back earlier today from Calais. I kept a bit of a journal and Suzanne Breen did a bit of editing and
it was printed in the Belfast Telegraph today. (A technical hitch meant they missed the last parts of the story)

Anyhow, have a read and get an insight into what is going what is going on in Calais in the refugee camp known as "The Jungle"


'We see people who arrive with nothing but what they're wearing ... the experience is very humbling'

By Suzanne Breen

A NORTHERN IRELAND lorry-driver was so moved by the pictures of refugees fleeing war-torn countries that he decided to go on a mercy mission to help them.

John Hurson, 46, from Dungannon, said the photograph of three-year-old Syrian, Aylan Kurdi, washed up on a Turkish beach, spurred him into action.

Earlier this week, he loaded his van with humanitarian aid and set off for mainland Europe. John didn’t ask for any public donations. He funded the trip himself. Below is the remarkable journal he wrote for the Belfast Telegraph outlining his odyssey.

TUESDAY

SETTING off from Dungannon at 10.30pm. The van is packed to the roof with humanitarian aid for Calais. We’ve blankets, clothes, walking sticks, wheelchairs, toys, tents and books in there.

My cousin Adrian Murphy is coming with me. I’m not a man with a plan. I don’t know where I’ll end up. I’m going to drive to Calais and speak to the aid agencies there and see where the area of greatest need is in Europe. Calais itself is said to be swarming with aid. I’ll probably end up driving to Hungary where the situation is desperate.

Adrian and I are travelling light. We’ve just two little backpacks with us. A change of clothes and toiletries is all we need. There’s no room in the van for anything else anyway. It’s a two hour drive to Dublin where we’ll catch the ferry to Holyhead at 2.15am.

WEDNESDAY

We grab a quick bite to eat and some sleep on the ferry. We hit the road again at 6am. Our first destination is Slough, outside London, where we’re meeting three friends who are joining us. We help them load their van with food, warm blankets and other items. Then, we set off for Folkestone to take the Channel Tunnel to Calais.

But we miss our booking. We’re pulled over by the police in Folkestone and delayed for nearly an hour. They take our passports away and ask numerous questions about why we’re travelling to Calais. “Because we care,” I tell them. I later find out that our experience isn’t unusual. The police regularly stop, hold and quiz those going to help the refugees.

We finally arrive in Calais at midnight. We book into a cheap hotel there. It’s £80 for two rooms for the five of us for the night. I’m exhausted. I’ve been on the road 18 hours. My four tired friends fall asleep immediately. There’s an orchestra of snoring. I soon join them.

THURSDAY

We rise early and head to the large refugee camp in Calais known as "The Jungle". At the outskirts, you start to see tents popping up between the bushes and sand dunes. Then, dozens and dozens more camped together, in small and large groups, become visible.

Hundreds of people are walking around, and it hits you. This is where thousands from across the Middle East and Africa have gathered in hope of crossing into the UK. The sight of it

leaves me speechless, thinking of the magnitude of what they’ve done. The long journeys across many countries that they’ve made.

It’s not all doom and gloom in the camp. There are men playing cards and dominoes on makeshift tables they’ve built out of wooden pallets. Women have hung baskets of flowers on the side of their tents in a valiant attempt to make them homely.

And there’s an African artist in a makeshift studio painting. I’m in awe of his work, it’s stunning. He has dozens of paintings. He could make a fortune but he won’t sell any of them. They’re to make the camp beautiful, he tells me.

We pull up at the medical centre and speak to workers there. We’re told there’s still a great need for aid in Calais. We decide we won’t travel to Hungary, what we’ve brought will be put to good use here. There are around 5,000 people in the camp with 500 coming in the past week alone.

We’re advised not to start distributing the aid ourselves. When others have done that, it’s led to a mini-riot. And only the strongest and fittest refugees get the stuff. We’re directed to the Jules Ferry day centre at the other end of the camp.

Here, people receive one hot meal a day – if there’s enough food to go around - and a shower. The volunteers in the centre are nearly all from the UK. Some have been there a few days, others weeks.

They’re doing incredible work, providing new arrivals with everything they need and helping them set up their tents. We unload both vans. We see people arriving with nothing bar what they’re wearing. It’s a very humbling experience.

One of the largest buildings in the camp is the church. It was built as a place where anyone can come to pray or just sit in silence. It’s for those of all religions and none. This is where Songs of Praise was filmed.

We give a few large rugs and boxes of food to the church. People are getting ready for a party tomorrow. It’s the Orthodox New Year in Eritrea. This is a special time of year for the hundreds of Eritreans in the camp. They’re determined that the distance they are from home won’t stop them marking the event.

A charismatic man named Solomon looks after the church. He was one of its original founders. The three others have been lucky enough to make it to the UK. He takes us inside and explains the church’s origins and how many times it’s been extended. A few volunteers have repaired its leaking roof.

The floor is a beautiful mix of colours as rugs and carpet intertwine. The walls are lined with holy images and, at a small altar, candles can be lit. Prayer rugs are laid out so Muslims can come in and pray in a respectful manner.

As I sit there, a group of 25 young women are in the opposite corner singing. They’re preparing for the upcoming New Year celebrations. They’re singing in harmony to the sound of a rhythmic drum beat. Despite all the hardships, distance and conditions, they’re smiling and giving it everything they have. I’m spellbound listening to them. I don’t want them to stop.

Behind the church, is a recently built library and book exchange. We have brought 10 boxes of books for all ages and Solomon introduces us to Bill who we give them to. The library, called ‘Jungle Books’, is a small wooden framed structure wrapped in waterproof lining. It houses a few hundred books and a couple of tables and chairs. Children love coming in and out.

Bill is a retired ex-serviceman from Manchester. He’s been in Calais a month and not only does he look after the library, but he sleeps in a small tent at the back of the building. He says he has no intentions of going home. He will stay for as long as he can. Despite having picked up a chest infection recently when heavy rain flooded the camp, he soldiers on. Bill says his ailment pales in comparison to the suffering of everyone around him.

FRIDAY

Now our aid has been delivered we can just walk around the camp and talk to people. They are from all walks of life. They have all fled some form of oppression. All they want is to start a better life in the UK. That is the single goal uniting everyone.

The conditions in which they’re living are inhumane. Sanitation is a major issue as latrines fill up and aren’t emptied regularly. People are washing clothes in basins, and men are trying to wash using cold water trickling from taps.

Proper medical care is non-existent. One of the main injuries treated is people’s feet. Hundreds of miles on foot in poor shoes has left many on crutches, and limping badly.

Bicycles provide the best form of transport around the camp. Mountain bikes are perfect for negotiating the terrain. Given the vast size of the camp, they are a fast way to get from one side to the other. One area of the camp is devoted to fixing punctures and carrying out bike repairs.

Everywhere, there are groups of people carrying bunches of sticks to light fires for cooking or heating. Many local trees have been cut down. Wood is desperately needed in the camp.

We’re now preparing to head home. But what I’ve seen will haunt me when I’m back in Dungannon. Thousands of people are living in squalid conditions. You wouldn’t keep animals in such a state.

The British government’s only contribution to the camp so far has been the miles of razor wire fencing erected around it. Nothing has been spent on making life a little more bearable for the refugees, our politicians haven’t even given them a loaf of bread.

Just before we leave, 13 very young men arrive from Afghanistan. Volunteers in the camp start erecting tents for them and giving them aid. A wee while later, one of the group comes over and gives me a big hug. He is Mohammed Nazir and he’s 16, although he looks a lot younger.

He starts thanking me profusely. I don’t know why. Then I see he is holding a football with ‘Ireland’ stamped on it, one of the balls I’d brought yesterday. Another of the refugees is wearing a coat we brought and they all have our blankets. The image of them standing there with the small bits and pieces we’ve delivered will be emblazoned in my mind forever.



Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: finbar o tool on September 12, 2015, 10:45:05 PM
I think I speak for the majority when I say  foxcommander I hope you die roaring you horrible ****.

I think you presume too much on who you speak for.

Agree with Gallsman. Seen an article on facebook today about the 1000 or so people that took to the streets today to welcome the refugees and fight for more of them to be taken in to the country! The vast majority of the hundreds of comments on the article were against it.
The one line that stuck with me from the whole article above by GHD was this - "All they want is to start a better life in the UK(im sure Ireland would do just fine either), that is the one goal uniting everyone". This tells us that these are not people just trying to get themselves to safety, and then return home when its safe again. This tells us that they are looking for an easy way into a country where they can get benefits and settle down for the rest of their lives.
Its the kind of thing the country wont regret until its too late.
Anyway, it doesnt matter what any of us think about the whole situation, we have no say in it! Its happening!
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on September 12, 2015, 10:56:46 PM
I think I speak for the majority when I say  foxcommander I hope you die roaring you horrible ****.

I think you presume too much on who you speak for.

Agree with Gallsman. Seen an article on facebook today about the 1000 or so people that took to the streets today to welcome the refugees and fight for more of them to be taken in to the country! The vast majority of the hundreds of comments on the article were against it.
The one line that stuck with me from the whole article above by GHD was this - "All they want is to start a better life in the UK(im sure Ireland would do just fine either), that is the one goal uniting everyone". This tells us that these are not people just trying to get themselves to safety, and then return home when its safe again. This tells us that they are looking for an easy way into a country where they can get benefits and settle down for the rest of their lives.
Its the kind of thing the country wont regret until its too late.
Anyway, it doesnt matter what any of us think about the whole situation, we have no say in it! Its happening!

You read "start a better life" yet you seem to understand "scrounge out of my pocket".

That's the problem with nationalism, you feel fraternity with people who are born in the same country as you regardless of their character but you fear those from elsewhere regardless of the type of person
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: finbar o tool on September 12, 2015, 11:20:53 PM
"Scrounge out my pocket" is fairly accurate, is it not?! I think it was mentioned earlier in the thread, €6000 per taxpayer? And that will only rise.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: hardstation on September 12, 2015, 11:31:47 PM
"Scrounge out my pocket" is fairly accurate, is it not?! I think it was mentioned earlier in the thread, €6000 per taxpayer? And that will only rise.
Yes. If you don't have 6000 euro in your account, they are putting you in the red. Refugees, piss off and die.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Tony Baloney on September 12, 2015, 11:36:51 PM
Do you not have to give them 6 grand in cash? And that's before they steal our jobs and impregnate our women.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: finbar o tool on September 12, 2015, 11:42:46 PM
"Scrounge out my pocket" is fairly accurate, is it not?! I think it was mentioned earlier in the thread, €6000 per taxpayer? And that will only rise.
Yes. If you don't have 6000 euro in your account, they are putting you in the red. Refugees, piss off and die.

"Refugees"

Some people cant help but buy into the picture the media paint!
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: hardstation on September 12, 2015, 11:45:28 PM
"The famine is over, why don't you go home?"
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: finbar o tool on September 12, 2015, 11:57:47 PM
Super, another famine quote! Of course this is quite different though, Irish people got to other countries and worked their asses off for f**k all to survive. Cant see that happening in this case!
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on September 13, 2015, 12:12:24 AM
"Scrounge out my pocket" is fairly accurate, is it not?! I think it was mentioned earlier in the thread, €6000 per taxpayer? And that will only rise.

Not sure why I'm wasting my time engaging with you but what would you rather happen these refugees??
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Tony Baloney on September 13, 2015, 12:19:13 AM
"Scrounge out my pocket" is fairly accurate, is it not?! I think it was mentioned earlier in the thread, €6000 per taxpayer? And that will only rise.

Not sure why I'm wasting my time engaging with you but what would you rather happen these refugees??
Part of the common perception is that they are travelling through many safe countries to get to the UK and Ireland. As their initial goal was to flee persecution and reach safety, many are questioning why this is. Better welfare conditions?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on September 13, 2015, 12:27:16 AM
"Scrounge out my pocket" is fairly accurate, is it not?! I think it was mentioned earlier in the thread, €6000 per taxpayer? And that will only rise.

Not sure why I'm wasting my time engaging with you but what would you rather happen these refugees??
Part of the common perception is that they are travelling through many safe countries to get to the UK and Ireland. As their initial goal was to flee persecution and reach safety, many are questioning why this is. Better welfare conditions?

You say that as if the UK / Ireland is the main destination for refugees, IT'S NOT!!!

Although to answer your question, for many, yes although apparently the UK isn't the honey pot it's media make it out to be - benefits in France are equal if not better.  Other considerations are family (think of Boston, Chicago, new York) and language also
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Tony Baloney on September 13, 2015, 12:30:41 AM
"Scrounge out my pocket" is fairly accurate, is it not?! I think it was mentioned earlier in the thread, €6000 per taxpayer? And that will only rise.

Not sure why I'm wasting my time engaging with you but what would you rather happen these refugees??
Part of the common perception is that they are travelling through many safe countries to get to the UK and Ireland. As their initial goal was to flee persecution and reach safety, many are questioning why this is. Better welfare conditions?

You say that as if the UK / Ireland is the main destination for refugees, IT'S NOT!!!

Although to answer your question, for many, yes although apparently the UK isn't the honey pot it's media make it out to be - benefits in France are equal if not better.  Other considerations are family (think of Boston, Chicago, new York) and language also
It makes no odds to me but this is what is being used by many people to question the motives of the refugees. Due to the numbers it makes sense to spread the load across all of Europe.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on September 13, 2015, 04:45:46 AM
I think I speak for the majority when I say  foxcommander I hope you die roaring you horrible ****.

I think you presume too much on who you speak for.

Agree with Gallsman. Seen an article on facebook today about the 1000 or so people that took to the streets today to welcome the refugees and fight for more of them to be taken in to the country! The vast majority of the hundreds of comments on the article were against it.
The one line that stuck with me from the whole article above by GHD was this - "All they want is to start a better life in the UK(im sure Ireland would do just fine either), that is the one goal uniting everyone". This tells us that these are not people just trying to get themselves to safety, and then return home when its safe again. This tells us that they are looking for an easy way into a country where they can get benefits and settle down for the rest of their lives.
Its the kind of thing the country wont regret until its too late.
Anyway, it doesnt matter what any of us think about the whole situation, we have no say in it! Its happening!

One of my major concerns about this mass migration is background checks on all those who are fleeing. While I'm sure there is a sizeable number who are genuine in their plight there will always be those who jump on the bandwagon and screw it up for the rest.

Now have those who are leaving Africa/middle east/asia all got some sort background history (sex offenders/murderers/other) to check on or is it a "y'all come on in" attitude?

I'd use the UK as an example of integration done badly if not thought out properly...which is probably beyond the comprehension of any irish government. IF they don't start getting it right you'll end up with no-go areas and campaigns for sharia law..not sure if Kenny has the backbone to turn down that request :D

If people are genuine about getting out of danger then I don't see why temporary visas until certain conflicts are resolved aren't the way to go. Then resolve the issues in the host country diplomatically (or by force, depending on the situation). everything else just seems like opportunism to use a conflict as an excuse.
But there are those out there who can't see how they will be screwing up countries for future generations for the sake of giving themselves a pat on the back and feeling smug right now. I fail to see any positives in all of this.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on September 13, 2015, 08:04:35 AM
I think I speak for the majority when I say  foxcommander I hope you die roaring you horrible ****.

I think you presume too much on who you speak for.

Agree with Gallsman. Seen an article on facebook today about the 1000 or so people that took to the streets today to welcome the refugees and fight for more of them to be taken in to the country! The vast majority of the hundreds of comments on the article were against it.
The one line that stuck with me from the whole article above by GHD was this - "All they want is to start a better life in the UK(im sure Ireland would do just fine either), that is the one goal uniting everyone". This tells us that these are not people just trying to get themselves to safety, and then return home when its safe again. This tells us that they are looking for an easy way into a country where they can get benefits and settle down for the rest of their lives.
Its the kind of thing the country wont regret until its too late.
Anyway, it doesnt matter what any of us think about the whole situation, we have no say in it! Its happening!

One of my major concerns about this mass migration is background checks on all those who are fleeing. While I'm sure there is a sizeable number who are genuine in their plight there will always be those who jump on the bandwagon and screw it up for the rest.

Now have those who are leaving Africa/middle east/asia all got some sort background history (sex offenders/murderers/other) to check on or is it a "y'all come on in" attitude?

I'd use the UK as an example of integration done badly if not thought out properly...which is probably beyond the comprehension of any irish government. IF they don't start getting it right you'll end up with no-go areas and campaigns for sharia law..not sure if Kenny has the backbone to turn down that request :D

If people are genuine about getting out of danger then I don't see why temporary visas until certain conflicts are resolved aren't the way to go. Then resolve the issues in the host country diplomatically (or by force, depending on the situation). everything else just seems like opportunism to use a conflict as an excuse.
But there are those out there who can't see how they will be screwing up countries for future generations for the sake of giving themselves a pat on the back and feeling smug right now. I fail to see any positives in all of this.

So you're happy enough to welcome these refugees so long as it's on a temporary basis until their own country is safe??
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Itchy on September 13, 2015, 08:45:48 AM
I think I speak for the majority when I say  foxcommander I hope you die roaring you horrible ****.

I think you presume too much on who you speak for.

Agree with Gallsman. Seen an article on facebook today about the 1000 or so people that took to the streets today to welcome the refugees and fight for more of them to be taken in to the country! The vast majority of the hundreds of comments on the article were against it.
The one line that stuck with me from the whole article above by GHD was this - "All they want is to start a better life in the UK(im sure Ireland would do just fine either), that is the one goal uniting everyone". This tells us that these are not people just trying to get themselves to safety, and then return home when its safe again. This tells us that they are looking for an easy way into a country where they can get benefits and settle down for the rest of their lives.
Its the kind of thing the country wont regret until its too late.
Anyway, it doesnt matter what any of us think about the whole situation, we have no say in it! Its happening!

You read "start a better life" yet you seem to understand "scrounge out of my pocket".

That's the problem with nationalism, you feel fraternity with people who are born in the same country as you regardless of their character but you fear those from elsewhere regardless of the type of person

Very well put mc danger. I'd hazard a guess that 5% of the population of this country that were born and bred here have no intention to work and happily scrounge of the state as the latest xenophobic poster said.

I would also expect a lot of these refugees do wish to go home one day when their country is more stable. Put the shoe on the other foot, imagine you had to put sticks with the family and one suitcase and move to a Muslim country and be met with the Muslim equivalent of foxcommander and Fintan the tool. I truly find it astonishing the selfish ugly attitude of some Irish people who Seem to have the memory of goldfish (no offence to goldfish who never did anyone any harm)
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: dferg on September 13, 2015, 09:18:28 AM
They are prepared to put there kids in an overcrowded dingy and attempt to cross the Mediterranean.  That should be a fairly clear indication they are coming from somewhere fairly grim.

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Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: finbar o tool on September 13, 2015, 09:41:13 AM
Xenophobic?! Its a nice fancy word there itchy but its just utter bullshit, i dont hate all foreigners!
Oh im sure you're right, im sure these "refugees" cant wait to get home, im sure they will get the same benefits at home as they would here or elsewhere in europe!
Im sure if the shoe was on the other foot the people of Syria and Afghanistan would put up welcome banners and march the streets screaming for more of us to come!  ;D
Anyone know why the majority of arab countries are doing absolutely nothing about these "refugees"??
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on September 13, 2015, 10:26:20 AM
Anyone know why the majority of arab countries are doing absolutely nothing about these "refugees"??

I've heard this argument a few times recently, perhaps you should have a look and see which countries have already taken hundreds of thousands of refugees, it would do no harm to educate yourself on a few facts of the situation. Start by having a look at how many Syrian refugees are in Lebanon
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Itchy on September 13, 2015, 12:08:03 PM
Xenophobic?! Its a nice fancy word there itchy but its just utter bullshit, i dont hate all foreigners!
Oh im sure you're right, im sure these "refugees" cant wait to get home, im sure they will get the same benefits at home as they would here or elsewhere in europe!
Im sure if the shoe was on the other foot the people of Syria and Afghanistan would put up welcome banners and march the streets screaming for more of us to come!  ;D
Anyone know why the majority of arab countries are doing absolutely nothing about these "refugees"??

Finbarr the tool, On what basis to you make the assumption these people are coming for benefits. That is xenophobia, if you are too stupid to understand that then go back to school. By the way, do you know where most migrants in Ireland come from? Are you in favour of send them back where they came from?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: finbar o tool on September 13, 2015, 01:43:44 PM
Xenophobia is the fear of foreigners getting benefits is it?!  ::) and im the one that should go back to school?!
Anyone know why the majority of arab countries are doing absolutely nothing about these "refugees"??

I've heard this argument a few times recently, perhaps you should have a look and see which countries have already taken hundreds of thousands of refugees, it would do no harm to educate yourself on a few facts of the situation. Start by having a look at how many Syrian refugees are in Lebanon
Im actually talking about Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates, in general these are wealthy, close-by countries who are doing sweet f**k all to help! But Ireland will!! Lets Give ourselves a big pat on the back there! Enda Kenny the saviour!!
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Itchy on September 13, 2015, 08:41:03 PM
Xenophobia is the fear of foreigners getting benefits is it?!  ::) and im the one that should go back to school?!
Anyone know why the majority of arab countries are doing absolutely nothing about these "refugees"??

I've heard this argument a few times recently, perhaps you should have a look and see which countries have already taken hundreds of thousands of refugees, it would do no harm to educate yourself on a few facts of the situation. Start by having a look at how many Syrian refugees are in Lebanon
Im actually talking about Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates, in general these are wealthy, close-by countries who are doing sweet f**k all to help! But Ireland will!! Lets Give ourselves a big pat on the back there! Enda Kenny the saviour!!

You should go back to school and learn to read, where did I define what xenophobia was. You clearly fear foreigners though. When you go back to school and learn to read I suggest you start with some history books. The words are very small in some of them and there probably aren't many pictures but stick at it and it will enlighten you
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: finbar o tool on September 13, 2015, 09:54:45 PM
Itchy, you cut me deep man...  ;D

You are sort of right though, i did in fact misread what you said, but after reading it back it was an easy mistake to make. I just got muddled in your mumbo jumbo nonsense!
[/quote]
On what basis to you make the assumption these people are coming for benefits. That is xenophobia, if you are too stupid to understand that then go back to school.
[/quote]

That doesn't even make sense!

I have an opinion, which im entitled to, if you have anything decent to contribute, apart from terrible name calling, then please do, if not, jog on!

Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on September 14, 2015, 04:18:22 PM
I think I speak for the majority when I say  foxcommander I hope you die roaring you horrible ****.

I think you presume too much on who you speak for.

Agree with Gallsman. Seen an article on facebook today about the 1000 or so people that took to the streets today to welcome the refugees and fight for more of them to be taken in to the country! The vast majority of the hundreds of comments on the article were against it.
The one line that stuck with me from the whole article above by GHD was this - "All they want is to start a better life in the UK(im sure Ireland would do just fine either), that is the one goal uniting everyone". This tells us that these are not people just trying to get themselves to safety, and then return home when its safe again. This tells us that they are looking for an easy way into a country where they can get benefits and settle down for the rest of their lives.
Its the kind of thing the country wont regret until its too late.
Anyway, it doesnt matter what any of us think about the whole situation, we have no say in it! Its happening!

One of my major concerns about this mass migration is background checks on all those who are fleeing. While I'm sure there is a sizeable number who are genuine in their plight there will always be those who jump on the bandwagon and screw it up for the rest.

Now have those who are leaving Africa/middle east/asia all got some sort background history (sex offenders/murderers/other) to check on or is it a "y'all come on in" attitude?

I'd use the UK as an example of integration done badly if not thought out properly...which is probably beyond the comprehension of any irish government. IF they don't start getting it right you'll end up with no-go areas and campaigns for sharia law..not sure if Kenny has the backbone to turn down that request :D

If people are genuine about getting out of danger then I don't see why temporary visas until certain conflicts are resolved aren't the way to go. Then resolve the issues in the host country diplomatically (or by force, depending on the situation). everything else just seems like opportunism to use a conflict as an excuse.
But there are those out there who can't see how they will be screwing up countries for future generations for the sake of giving themselves a pat on the back and feeling smug right now. I fail to see any positives in all of this.

So you're happy enough to welcome these refugees so long as it's on a temporary basis until their own country is safe??

Is that such a bad suggestion? Give the UN time to get its act together and deploy a peacekeeping force so these people can return to their homes.

Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on September 14, 2015, 04:28:25 PM
From Radio Presenter Gareth O'Callaghan


An open letter to An Taoiseach, Enda Kenny, TD.

 Dear Enda,

 You might never get to read this as I know how busy you are; but maybe someone who closely knows you will, and for that I am grateful. I have something I need to get off my chest, and I believe that you are the man to write to.

 The land of Syria is currently in a state of flux, much as it was during the reign of Quirinius, during the lifetime of Jesus. History is repeating itself, as it does.

 Perhaps it's because of our close links to Christ's history and teachings that 7,000 Irish people have this weekend very kindly offered to open their doors to the thousands of Syrian refugees that you have agreed can come and make Ireland their home.

 Maybe it's because of our Christian benevolence that we feel passionately the need to reach out and take in these desperate families; or maybe it's because of the heartbreaking picture of a small child lying dead on a Turkish beach two weeks ago that has since become etched into the Irish psyche.

 We are indeed a very vocal and passionate people. We despise injustice and inhumanity. We have witnessed during the 70s and 80s ourselves what coming close to a religious war has meant for our people. Your decision to accept these people, undoubtedly saving many lives in doing so, is to be commended. I have no doubt they will be welcomed with open arms when they arrive. But what then?

 By that I mean what happens to them then? I need to categorically state at the outset here that I see a need here to save lives, and that is precisely what we will be doing by allowing them to resettle here. Genuine refugees, victims of a humanitarian crisis - a bloody religious war, need to be supported. That is what you aim to do in the next few weeks. But what then?

 There is a growing un-ease here at home. I can sense it in the air. People are uncomfortable because they feel that this is not being planned logistically. Relocating 4,000 people, most of whom don't speak english, needs precision planning and long-sighted anticipation. I don't see any of that anywhere. They need language and cultural support. I don't see that either.

 Let's get real here. We are unable to look after our own. Have we not learned from that alone? Our failure to look after our own poor and vulnerable has become a shameful crisis of embarrassing proportions - one that this government continues to sweep further under the carpet. Well I have news for you, the carpet is running a bit thread-bare at this stage.

 Our homelessness crisis is now nothing short of a scandal. Young families are now roaming the streets, sleeping in doorways to stay warm and dry. You promised to have 'every single homeless person off the streets' by last Christmas. That never happened.

 Will it take the death of a tiny homeless Irish boy in a doorway on some dark winter's night to make you realise that this cannot continue. Or are you another Taoiseach who just keeps on kicking the can down the street?

 Over the past seven years a huge number of deaths, many of them suicides, could have been avoided by more insightful and astute care and attention by your government; but your main problem is that you are running a failed, out-of-date system. Systems don't work. History sings that song.

 You and I have shared the same stage at a number of charity events over the years. I feel honoured to be on first name terms with you. You have my number, I have yours. I have heard the passion in your voice when you speak about many humanitarian issues that are close to your heart. Your handshake makes me smile. You are a man who knows the value of a serious hug. You are not a typical man; and for that you climb high in my esteem.

 As a person, I find you decent, kind and amicable. There is a personal integrity in you that is rare. But I am beginning to think that I am losing you in that world of neanderthal politicians that you inhabit - a world you resisted, criticised, and have showed contempt for on many occasions in the past.

 Please tell us what is happening here with these refugees. Genuine refugees need to be supported; but of the 4,000 due here (mostly men), how many of them are gold-diggers? How many of them are on the run for murder and rape crimes? Human beings are not toys. They are not just for Christmas. These people need respect; but respect is a two-way street.

 When they get here, what provisions are in place to support them - emotionally and economically? Many of them will have serious health issues, both mental and physical, that they will need support for. Many of them will inevitably end up on the streets, and some of them will resort to crime to support their needs.

 Their families will follow, according to the so-called plan. The final number could be as high as 30,000. Let's put that into perspective. Ireland has 12,000 gardai. In Dublin alone there are only 1,000 gardai on duty at any one time. This is a huge additional burden on a police force that is creaking under lack of resources and morale - yet another unacceptable fact which rests on your doorstep.

 And finally that brings me to Noel. I met Noel one Thursday night two weeks ago. It was just after 10pm. He was buying his wife and two young sons burgers and chips in McDonalds. He saw me and said hello. He was trying to get his family into a hostel or B&B for the night but they were all full since 6pm that evening so they were facing a night in a doorway.

 Thankfully a call came through as I was talking to them. Noel was a very successful self-employed businessman until his business collapsed and the bank took his house back. He is homeless, along with a wife and two young children.

 No one is underestimating the sheer horror of what faces these Syrian families on a daily basis. To risk death by taking a small boat across the Meditteranean Straits if it meant a better, safer quality of life for my children? Yes I would chance it if it meant that they might survive and prosper.

 But what about our own homeless? What about families here who are just about managing to keep a roof above their heads by skipping on food and heating right now? What must they think about how quickly you can make decisions such as this one? What about their humanitarian needs? Charity begins at home.

 You seem to keep making the point that the quality of life is getting better here, Taoiseach. The truth is it's not. It's just about similar to straddling the bar at the side of a swimming pool for most people who can't swim. Let go of the bar and I drown. Get real.

 Thank you for giving these poor souls a second chance. I am certain many of them will have so much to offer this great country of ours. But please don't forget about those people who shook hands on their doorsteps with many of your colleagues prior to all of you being elected: the same people who are hoping for a warm bed tonight in a homeless shelter - the same people who must be wondering, What next?

 With respect,

 Gareth O'Callaghan
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on September 14, 2015, 05:23:08 PM
I think I speak for the majority when I say  foxcommander I hope you die roaring you horrible ****.

I think you presume too much on who you speak for.

Agree with Gallsman. Seen an article on facebook today about the 1000 or so people that took to the streets today to welcome the refugees and fight for more of them to be taken in to the country! The vast majority of the hundreds of comments on the article were against it.
The one line that stuck with me from the whole article above by GHD was this - "All they want is to start a better life in the UK(im sure Ireland would do just fine either), that is the one goal uniting everyone". This tells us that these are not people just trying to get themselves to safety, and then return home when its safe again. This tells us that they are looking for an easy way into a country where they can get benefits and settle down for the rest of their lives.
Its the kind of thing the country wont regret until its too late.
Anyway, it doesnt matter what any of us think about the whole situation, we have no say in it! Its happening!

One of my major concerns about this mass migration is background checks on all those who are fleeing. While I'm sure there is a sizeable number who are genuine in their plight there will always be those who jump on the bandwagon and screw it up for the rest.

Now have those who are leaving Africa/middle east/asia all got some sort background history (sex offenders/murderers/other) to check on or is it a "y'all come on in" attitude?

I'd use the UK as an example of integration done badly if not thought out properly...which is probably beyond the comprehension of any irish government. IF they don't start getting it right you'll end up with no-go areas and campaigns for sharia law..not sure if Kenny has the backbone to turn down that request :D

If people are genuine about getting out of danger then I don't see why temporary visas until certain conflicts are resolved aren't the way to go. Then resolve the issues in the host country diplomatically (or by force, depending on the situation). everything else just seems like opportunism to use a conflict as an excuse.
But there are those out there who can't see how they will be screwing up countries for future generations for the sake of giving themselves a pat on the back and feeling smug right now. I fail to see any positives in all of this.

So you're happy enough to welcome these refugees so long as it's on a temporary basis until their own country is safe??

Is that such a bad suggestion? Give the UN time to get its act together and deploy a peacekeeping force so these people can return to their homes.

I was asking a genuine question!

Something like that would be perfectly reasonable tbh
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Treasurer on September 15, 2015, 07:54:01 PM
I keep seeing comments about not helping refugees because our homeless situation is so bad.  Why does it have to be an either/or? Homeless people need help, simple as that, ALL of them.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on September 15, 2015, 09:30:16 PM
I keep seeing comments about not helping refugees because our homeless situation is so bad.  Why does it have to be an either/or? Homeless people need help, simple as that, ALL of them.

Unfortunately It's not an either/or situation - it's a neither.

If you don't have the resources to look after the people who already live in the country and are on the brink then how can you expect to look after another 4000 (rising to maybe 30000) people who will need everything from homes to clothes to food?

It's the big man scenario, enda trying to be a player on the euro stage.

Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: give her dixie on September 15, 2015, 09:39:55 PM
A French Government run charity provide one hot meal per day in Calais. People line up for hours to get what is on offer.

Nearly every day they run out.

This is what it is like in the rain

This is Europe, this is France, this is down the road, this is lack of humanity on a grand scale.

May I add, people will see this image in different ways.

I know what I see.......

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Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: armaghniac on September 15, 2015, 09:50:04 PM
A French Government run charity provide one hot meal per day in Calais. People line up for hours to get what is on offer.

Nearly every day they run out.

This is what it is like in the rain

This is Europe, this is France, this is down the road, this is lack of humanity on a grand scale.

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France has an asylum seeking procedure which most of people have not availed of, does it not?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: give her dixie on September 15, 2015, 10:02:15 PM
A French Government run charity provide one hot meal per day in Calais. People line up for hours to get what is on offer.

Nearly every day they run out.

This is what it is like in the rain

This is Europe, this is France, this is down the road, this is lack of humanity on a grand scale.

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France has an asylum seeking procedure which most of people have not availed of, does it not?

Why are you asking me a question that you already know the answer to?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: armaghniac on September 15, 2015, 10:07:50 PM
Why are you asking me a question that you already know the answer to?

Because, if the French are willing to help people, but those people won't fill in the form, then it has been their choice and so does not represent "inhumanity" on the part of the French government. If I had no money and I went to the welfare office and they said we can help, but you have to fill in this form and that form, then I should do that.

The criminality, breaking into trucks and whatnot, in Calais is scandalous. Any of these breaking the law should be sentenced to community service in Reunion looking for aircraft parts.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: give her dixie on September 15, 2015, 10:22:45 PM
Why are you asking me a question that you already know the answer to?

Because, if the French are willing to help people, but those people won't fill in the form, then it has been their choice and so does not represent "inhumanity" on the part of the French government. If I had no money and I went to the welfare office and they said we can help, but you have to fill in this form and that form, then I should do that.

The criminality, breaking into trucks and whatnot, in Calais is scandalous. Any of these breaking the law should be sentenced to community service in Reunion looking for aircraft parts.

Right Mr Keyboard warrior, how about you head down there as you feel so strongly about it and you tell those people
what you have just told me to their face?

Tell that to the people who have sold everything they have, doctors, teachers, builders, etc
in order to get to where they are now, be it Calais, Munich, Serbia, etc. 

Tell that to those at the back of the line for food in the rain, but be sure to tell them after they get near the front
and the food runs out and they have to go hungry another day.

Tell them twice in case they didn't hear you the 1st time.

Tell them you know about mass migration from Ireland due to famine and war, and how you disapprove of them
trying to flee what our ancestors, parents, brothers or sisters did.

Go on big stuff, would you have the courage?

I will pay your expenses just to hear you tell one single person in that line what you have just said above.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: armaghniac on September 15, 2015, 10:47:02 PM
Right Mr Keyboard warrior, how about you head down there as you feel so strongly about it and you tell those people
what you have just told me to their face?

the worth or otherwise of my argument is not determined by my making it here.
Quite simply, the contention that people can enter countries against the wishes of the that countries inhabitants is not sustainable. There is a name for people entering places uninvited, it is called invasion.
People arguing for this do no good whatsoever for refugees as people anywhere will oppose invasion and even those who start off facilitating this will reverse their views, as Germany has now done.


Quote
Go on big stuff, would you have the courage?

Are you suggesting that I would be in danger? If I would be in danger does that not support my point?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: give her dixie on September 15, 2015, 10:57:59 PM
Right Mr Keyboard warrior, how about you head down there as you feel so strongly about it and you tell those people
what you have just told me to their face?

the worth or otherwise of my argument is not determined by my making it here.
Quite simply, the contention that people can enter countries against the wishes of the that countries inhabitants is not sustainable. There is a name for people entering places uninvited, it is called invasion.
People arguing for this do no good whatsoever for refugees as people anywhere will oppose invasion and even those who start off facilitating this will reverse their views, as Germany has now done.


Quote
Go on big stuff, would you have the courage?

Are you suggesting that I would be in danger? If I would be in danger does that not support my point?

So you're saying that the thousands and thousands of Irish who entered the US without correct paperwork "Invaded" the place?

I have heard many stories about immigration from Ireland, but this is the 1st that I have heard it called an "Invasion"

As for your safety, or mine for that matter. I have a general rule of thumb.

Anything I have to say on here or anywhere else I would say it to you or anyone else's face.

The same goes for those in Calais, Munich, or wherever.

It's that simple. either Walk the walk, or talk the talk..........
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: armaghniac on September 15, 2015, 11:12:14 PM
So you're saying that the thousands and thousands of Irish who entered the US without correct paperwork "Invaded" the place?

I have heard many stories about immigration from Ireland, but this is the 1st that I have heard it called an "Invasion"

The number of Irish arriving in the US is largely immaterial to the size of the US population and didn't change its composition as it had always had a significant proportion of Irish people. I don't condone Irish people breaking the law in the US either, but in most cases they simply overstayed a visa, so they US knew who they were and the issue arose in how long they stayed. The actual identity of at least some of those in Calais is in question. Perhaps you think that the US should turf out the illegal Irish and take an equivalent number of Syrians?

On a related subject Google will match the first 5m of donations
https://onetoday.google.com/page/refugeerelief?c=IE
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: whitey on September 15, 2015, 11:39:21 PM
Are people afraid that the migrants/refugees won't assimilate and we'll end up with a situation like in England with Hate preachers, grooming gangs and jihadists.

Maybe I'm not paying attention to all news sources, but when the likes of that cvnt Choudry starts up with his hate speech in London, why aren't  there 5000 decent Muslims out there counter protesting shouting him down?

The vast majority of Muslims are decent people but the only ones we hear about are the bad ones.

If anyone thinks we can't all live peacefully side by side should read this article

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/gaa-club-s-integration-policy-pays-off-in-ireland-s-most-ethnically-diverse-town-1.2237262
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: give her dixie on September 16, 2015, 12:13:28 AM
So you're saying that the thousands and thousands of Irish who entered the US without correct paperwork "Invaded" the place?

I have heard many stories about immigration from Ireland, but this is the 1st that I have heard it called an "Invasion"

The number of Irish arriving in the US is largely immaterial to the size of the US population and didn't change its composition as it had always had a significant proportion of Irish people. I don't condone Irish people breaking the law in the US either, but in most cases they simply overstayed a visa, so they US knew who they were and the issue arose in how long they stayed. The actual identity of at least some of those in Calais is in question. Perhaps you think that the US should turf out the illegal Irish and take an equivalent number of Syrians?

On a related subject Google will match the first 5m of donations
https://onetoday.google.com/page/refugeerelief?c=IE

would you like a spade or a shovel to keep digging with?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on September 16, 2015, 08:26:53 AM
Are people afraid that the migrants/refugees won't assimilate and we'll end up with a situation like in England with Hate preachers, grooming gangs and jihadists.

Maybe I'm not paying attention to all news sources, but when the likes of that cvnt Choudry starts up with his hate speech in London, why aren't  there 5000 decent Muslims out there counter protesting shouting him down?

The vast majority of Muslims are decent people but the only ones we hear about are the bad ones.

If anyone thinks we can't all live peacefully side by side should read this article

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/gaa-club-s-integration-policy-pays-off-in-ireland-s-most-ethnically-diverse-town-1.2237262

Good article and a good point.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Lar Naparka on September 16, 2015, 09:44:01 AM
I saw Alan Kelly being interviewed about the present refugee crisis on RTE last Tuesday and I’m still incensed by what he had to say. Looking straight at the camera, he delivered his final punch line, like a teacher admonishing his naughty pupils. Something along the lines of Michael Noonan chiding those who had thought  we get our public water supply for nothing.
“You must realise,” sez Kelly, “ that many of the Syrians coming in are highly qualified people in their own right. They will be a positive addition to our society.”
IMHO, there is a far better chance of a Syrian surgeon wielding a mop and bucket in some fast food restaurant than there is of him or her handling a scalpel in some major hospital in the near future.
EIther the bustard knows that incoming refugees are being shamefully exploited in the labour market or else he is living in fairy land.
While I’m at it, we seem to have a higher than average number of the pseudo Liberal party on this board. I may be wrong but I can’t  recall a single poster who says he, she or it ( given the nature of some of the posts here, I’m including all options) welcomes the refugees into our country and then make no mention of the fate that awaits them when they go looking for work.
t’s a case of  “I’m alright,  Jack. You are welcome as long as you get to the back of the queue and don’t threaten my job or expect me to do anything about the way you are being treated by unscrupulous employers.”
It’s long known that the softest part of Paddy the employer is his teeth.
I hate to see anyone being exploited, whether they are poor hoors coming here, desperate for work or any my fellow-citizens  who have to compete with them at the bottom of the pay scale. It doesn’t matter whether someone is from Pollawaddy or Poland, at best, all any of them can expect is a zero hour, minimum wage job.
I may be wrong and some of the welcome to all to all brigade may know otherwise, but I don’t know of a single non-national with professional qualifications who has walked into any sort of job other than a menial one.
Remember the Greyhonud recycling controversy that erupted lasy year when employees went on strike over their pay and conditions? Straightaway the company brought in scab labour to take their jobs.
It transpired that the workers, non-nationals and Irish alike, were getting just €300 a week when  the company announced pay cuts. Others were desperate enough to rush forward looking to take their jobs. I believe I was the only one on this board to highlight this and all I got was a single reply, expressing surprise that the pay and conditions were so bad.
It’s a mystery to me why individuals  should tell the world that all are welcome when they haven’t an  effin’ clue about what lies ahead of those who take the welcome at face value.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on September 16, 2015, 12:29:41 PM
You're largely correct Lar although you're talking about a number of entirely separate issues. The question of taking in refugees rather than leaving them to die is what we are currently talking about in terms of accepting people into this country. How they are treated is important though and you're right, they should be afforded the same rights and opportunities as any Irish worker.

Quote
I may be wrong and some of the welcome to all to all brigade may know otherwise, but I don’t know of a single non-national with professional qualifications who has walked into any sort of job other than a menial one.

You don't know any non-national who is working in a job other than a menial one?? Are you for real?? Not even a British or American?? You need to get out more Lar

Quote
It transpired that the workers, non-nationals and Irish alike, were getting just €300 a week when  the company announced pay cuts. Others were desperate enough to rush forward looking to take their jobs.

This has nothing to do with immigrant workers here never mind refugees!!! It's unscrupulous Irish employers (and consumers) as well as lax regulation and / or enforcement of the regulations.

Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on September 16, 2015, 02:21:27 PM
Good to see we've got our priorities straight...


First meeting of Irish Refugee Protection Programme Taskforce

The first meeting of the Irish Refugee Protection Programme Taskforce was held yesterday afternoon.

Chaired by Minister for Justice Frances Fitzgerald, the taskforce has brought together all of the Government Departments and agencies, including the local authorities, the UNHCR and the Irish Red Cross, to drive all of actions to implement the Programme.

The taskforce was advised that the first arrivals under the Irish Refugee Protection Programme are expected within weeks.

There was discussion on the roles and responsibilities of each organisation, with all expressing their willingness to engage fully it what needs to be done to implement the Government decision to establish the programme.

It was agreed that a number of key strands will be prioritised, including:

Work on providing accommodation for people granted refugees status will be led by the Department of the Environment and the city and county managers;

The Irish Red Cross will take the lead role in assessing and co-ordinating offers of public support and assistance, including accommodation.

The Red Cross will be communicating with people who have offered support in the coming days and has commenced the profiling of offers of support and accommodation;

The Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade will have a key role in engaging with the NGO community;

The Department of Justice and Equality and the Office of the Refugee Applications Commissioner will take the lead in the process of relocating persons to Ireland, the refugee assessment process and the establishment of Emergency Relocations and Orientation Centres;

Other Departments and agencies such as Health, Education, Social Protection, HSE and Tusla will implement the measures required to provide health, educational, welfare and other such services and supports.

An extensive programme of actions was identified and agreed which is now being taken forward.

Ms Fitzgerald will brief the Government on the meeting and the taskforce will meet again shortly to review progress.

John Roche, head of National and International Services for the Irish Red Cross, has said the situation is manageable due to the number of people Ireland will be accepting and the fact that their arrival will be staggered over a period of time.

Speaking to RTÉ News, he said all of the organisations involved will be working to get people settled into longer permanent, self contained accommodation which will be co-ordinated with local county councils.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Lar Naparka on September 16, 2015, 08:45:30 PM
You're largely correct Lar although you're talking about a number of entirely separate issues. The question of taking in refugees rather than leaving them to die is what we are currently talking about in terms of accepting people into this country. How they are treated is important though and you're right, they should be afforded the same rights and opportunities as any Irish worker.

Quote
I may be wrong and some of the welcome to all to all brigade may know otherwise, but I don’t know of a single non-national with professional qualifications who has walked into any sort of job other than a menial one.

You don't know any non-national who is working in a job other than a menial one?? Are you for real?? Not even a British or American?? You need to get out more Lar

Quote
It transpired that the workers, non-nationals and Irish alike, were getting just €300 a week when  the company announced pay cuts. Others were desperate enough to rush forward looking to take their jobs.

This has nothing to do with immigrant workers here never mind refugees!!! It's unscrupulous Irish employers (and consumers) as well as lax regulation and / or enforcement of the regulations.

You don't know any non-national who is working in a job other than a menial one?? Are you for real?? Not even a British or American?? You need to get out more Lar

Ah, FFS Mac, you can do better than that surely! ;D ;D
How many Americans or Brits do you know who have arrived here, unable to speak the language, don't know their rights and are desperate to get a job of any sort? Or how many of them are refugees of any sort?
How many Armenian architects or Syrian surgeons have you come across who have found work in their own specialist fields?

This (Greyhound) has nothing to do with immigrant workers here never mind refugees!!! It's unscrupulous Irish employers (and consumers) as well as lax regulation and / or enforcement of the regulations.
With due (ie feck all) respect, I beg to differ. It's very much about the point I'm making. It definitely is unscrupulous Irish employers etc etc. who are the culprits here. The reason is that no one seems to care or even be aware of what's going on in the general employment sector.
Yeah, I know this topic is about the present crisis but I thought I made it clear that I was thinking of the influx of refugees that began around 2008, at the height of the boom. Maybe that part of the reason why
we differ on some points. 
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on September 16, 2015, 09:07:13 PM
Rioting to get into Hungary isn't going to do anyone any favours.
I find it strange that people fleeing violence will use it themselves. Surely if your priority was safety then being anywhere else in the world bar the place you're in danger would be good enough?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on September 16, 2015, 09:14:19 PM
Rioting to get into Hungary isn't going to do anyone any favours.
I find it strange that people fleeing violence will use it themselves. Surely if your priority was safety then being anywhere else in the world bar the place you're in danger would be good enough?

Standing patiently in line would do the trick I suppose??
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on September 16, 2015, 09:19:25 PM
You're largely correct Lar although you're talking about a number of entirely separate issues. The question of taking in refugees rather than leaving them to die is what we are currently talking about in terms of accepting people into this country. How they are treated is important though and you're right, they should be afforded the same rights and opportunities as any Irish worker.

Quote
I may be wrong and some of the welcome to all to all brigade may know otherwise, but I don’t know of a single non-national with professional qualifications who has walked into any sort of job other than a menial one.

You don't know any non-national who is working in a job other than a menial one?? Are you for real?? Not even a British or American?? You need to get out more Lar

Quote
It transpired that the workers, non-nationals and Irish alike, were getting just €300 a week when  the company announced pay cuts. Others were desperate enough to rush forward looking to take their jobs.

This has nothing to do with immigrant workers here never mind refugees!!! It's unscrupulous Irish employers (and consumers) as well as lax regulation and / or enforcement of the regulations.

You don't know any non-national who is working in a job other than a menial one?? Are you for real?? Not even a British or American?? You need to get out more Lar

Ah, FFS Mac, you can do better than that surely! ;D ;D
How many Americans or Brits do you know who have arrived here, unable to speak the language, don't know their rights and are desperate to get a job of any sort? Or how many of them are refugees of any sort?
How many Armenian architects or Syrian surgeons have you come across who have found work in their own specialist fields?

This (Greyhound) has nothing to do with immigrant workers here never mind refugees!!! It's unscrupulous Irish employers (and consumers) as well as lax regulation and / or enforcement of the regulations.
With due (ie feck all) respect, I beg to differ. It's very much about the point I'm making. It definitely is unscrupulous Irish employers etc etc. who are the culprits here. The reason is that no one seems to care or even be aware of what's going on in the general employment sector.
Yeah, I know this topic is about the present crisis but I thought I made it clear that I was thinking of the influx of refugees that began around 2008, at the height of the boom. Maybe that part of the reason why
we differ on some points.

So when you talk about non-nationals Lar, you're talking about non-English speakers?? Immigrants? Or refugees? Is your assertion that none work in specialised fields based on your actual experience or just an assumption?

Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on September 16, 2015, 09:33:07 PM
Rioting to get into Hungary isn't going to do anyone any favours.
I find it strange that people fleeing violence will use it themselves. Surely if your priority was safety then being anywhere else in the world bar the place you're in danger would be good enough?

Standing patiently in line would do the trick I suppose??

I can't wait to try the same trick next time I'm in the immigration line at JFK...

Does being a refugee give you licence to bypass any law you feel is unjust? Surely those who are looking for another state to help them should be somewhat respectful there is a due process involved.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on September 16, 2015, 10:12:00 PM
Rioting to get into Hungary isn't going to do anyone any favours.
I find it strange that people fleeing violence will use it themselves. Surely if your priority was safety then being anywhere else in the world bar the place you're in danger would be good enough?

Standing patiently in line would do the trick I suppose??

I can't wait to try the same trick next time I'm in the immigration line at JFK...

Does being a refugee give you licence to bypass any law you feel is unjust? Surely those who are looking for another state to help them should be somewhat respectful there is a due process involved.

So what would you suggest they do?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: give her dixie on September 16, 2015, 10:15:41 PM
Throughout the carpet bombing of the Middle East for over 10 years now, Ireland has allowed the USA to use
Shannon airport as a stopping ground for soldiers, arms, and rendition flights to bring people to torture chambers.

I questioned a FF TD and a FF Senator as to why they allowed this to happen. Both told me it was good for the economy.

So if Ireland was willing to take the quick buck and turn a blind eye to their role in the bloodshed in the Middle East, then
they need to step forward and use that money to help the thousands of refugees that we are to take.

Our history, both recent and longer is littered with stories of mass immigration. We were world leaders at it. I was one of them.
Everywhere I went I get treated with dignity and respect, and no shortage of generosity. The tables have now turned on Ireland
and other EU countries, and we owe it to those now migrating here fleeing conflict a warm hand and a bit of understanding.
Not only do we owe it to ourselves, our ancestors, but to humanity.

When we look back at the images we are now seeing in 10 or 20 years time, what will we say to our children?


Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Rossfan on September 16, 2015, 11:14:38 PM
Hopefully we can say we were more generous than the disgraceful Hungarians, Slovaks, Czechs and Poles.
Those weren't very nice to non Aryans in the 1940s either.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: give her dixie on September 16, 2015, 11:37:11 PM
Hopefully we can say we were more generous than the disgraceful Hungarians, Slovaks, Czechs and Poles.
Those weren't very nice to non Aryans in the 1940s either.

Unreal scenes there today 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEeW0-gFHKI&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: armaghniac on September 16, 2015, 11:37:39 PM
Hopefully we can say we were more generous than the disgraceful Hungarians, Slovaks, Czechs and Poles.
Those weren't very nice to non Aryans in the 1940s either.

This comment is not worthy.
Hungary is coming into the limelight now because of its geographical position, it is easy to be superior about this from a distance. If more distant countries agreed on what to do then there wouldn't be problem in Hungary. In the1940s Hungary had some anti Jewish measures, but resisted demands from the Germans to hand over the Jewish population. I'm not sure that I agree with the Visegrad Group in the EU negotiations, but the rest have nothing much to be proud of either. 
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: give her dixie on September 17, 2015, 12:09:40 AM
Fortress Europe....................


https://www.facebook.com/nashabernp/videos/964470196945641/
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: give her dixie on September 17, 2015, 02:27:23 AM
‘Razor wire is for criminals’: German firms refuse to sell materials for Hungary's refugee fence

https://www.rt.com/news/315589-razor-wire-hungary-germany/
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: armaghniac on September 17, 2015, 07:06:23 AM
‘Razor wire is for criminals’: German firms refuse to sell materials for Hungary's refugee fence

https://www.rt.com/news/315589-razor-wire-hungary-germany/

Arrogance from the country that caused all of this. If Germany wants refugees it should fly them from Turkey and not require then to walk for 1000 Km spreading lawlessness in every country they pass through.  And Russian TV is hardly a neutral source either, exactly how many refugees have Russia taken?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Lar Naparka on September 17, 2015, 09:38:07 AM
You're largely correct Lar although you're talking about a number of entirely separate issues. The question of taking in refugees rather than leaving them to die is what we are currently talking about in terms of accepting people into this country. How they are treated is important though and you're right, they should be afforded the same rights and opportunities as any Irish worker.

Quote
I may be wrong and some of the welcome to all to all brigade may know otherwise, but I don’t know of a single non-national with professional qualifications who has walked into any sort of job other than a menial one.

You don't know any non-national who is working in a job other than a menial one?? Are you for real?? Not even a British or American?? You need to get out more Lar

Quote
It transpired that the workers, non-nationals and Irish alike, were getting just €300 a week when  the company announced pay cuts. Others were desperate enough to rush forward looking to take their jobs.

This has nothing to do with immigrant workers here never mind refugees!!! It's unscrupulous Irish employers (and consumers) as well as lax regulation and / or enforcement of the regulations.

You don't know any non-national who is working in a job other than a menial one?? Are you for real?? Not even a British or American?? You need to get out more Lar

Ah, FFS Mac, you can do better than that surely! ;D ;D
How many Americans or Brits do you know who have arrived here, unable to speak the language, don't know their rights and are desperate to get a job of any sort? Or how many of them are refugees of any sort?
How many Armenian architects or Syrian surgeons have you come across who have found work in their own specialist fields?

This (Greyhound) has nothing to do with immigrant workers here never mind refugees!!! It's unscrupulous Irish employers (and consumers) as well as lax regulation and / or enforcement of the regulations.
With due (ie feck all) respect, I beg to differ. It's very much about the point I'm making. It definitely is unscrupulous Irish employers etc etc. who are the culprits here. The reason is that no one seems to care or even be aware of what's going on in the general employment sector.
Yeah, I know this topic is about the present crisis but I thought I made it clear that I was thinking of the influx of refugees that began around 2008, at the height of the boom. Maybe that part of the reason why
we differ on some points.

So when you talk about non-nationals Lar, you're talking about non-English speakers?? Immigrants? Or refugees? Is your assertion that none work in specialised fields based on your actual experience or just an assumption?
My, you're digging deep here but I'll try to do my best...
If you recall, I mentioned at the beginning of my first post, that I took exception to what Alan Kelly had to say on the subject of incoming Syrian refugees.  If he were to be believed, the refugees in question could expect a genuine welcome and those with “special skills” would be a positive addition to our economy- or something along those lines. Yup, I certainly know sme immigrants/ non-nationals or whatever with professional qualifications who can't get work in their specialist fields. One doesn't have to lok very hard to find examples either.
From my experience and what others have to say, they can expect nothing of the sort.
IMHO, the labour scene is regulated by big business interests, due to lack of supervision and lax regulations.
Once, when Mary Harney was in Cabinet, she got a good going over from Vincent Browne (I think) on the subject of refugees flooding onto the l abour market.
Her reply was that if there was ever going to be a scarcity of jobs, the government would cut back on the number of work permits granted. To me, that means that humanitarian reasons has eff all do do with the number of refugees allowed into the country at any time. There are there to provide a source of cheap labour and that's about it. I don't notice anything different now
Any one telling them they are welcome and then doing damn all about what happens when they arrive annoys me very much.
BTW, for me, charity begins at home and I certainly don't like the way some people who are as Irish as you or I are being exploited either. Working pay and conditions have worsened are we are regressing to the James Larkin era.

I am thinking of non-English people mainly when I talk about the flood of refugees seeking to get in.  You may know otherwise but I don't know of any significant t number of refugees from any English-speaking country.
Americans? British? Canadians? Aussies?
You appear to think otherwise but unless you enlighten me, I don't know what you mean.
When referring to those coming in, I'd prefer to use the term ”immigrants” because that's what they are. Seems the PC brigade prefers “non-Nationals” as if that somehow sanitises the reality.
I used both to keep everyone happy.
Agus sin a bhfuil.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: AZOffaly on September 17, 2015, 10:21:54 AM
Lar, I have no idea what you mean, unless you are talking about Refugees only. A lot of refugees come in via direct provision and are not allowed work. These refugees, apparently, will be allowed work.

I work with Ukranians, Russians, Indians, Romanians and others. They all have good jobs.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on September 17, 2015, 04:41:27 PM
Rioting to get into Hungary isn't going to do anyone any favours.
I find it strange that people fleeing violence will use it themselves. Surely if your priority was safety then being anywhere else in the world bar the place you're in danger would be good enough?

Standing patiently in line would do the trick I suppose??

I can't wait to try the same trick next time I'm in the immigration line at JFK...

Does being a refugee give you licence to bypass any law you feel is unjust? Surely those who are looking for another state to help them should be somewhat respectful there is a due process involved.

So what would you suggest they do?

Now breaking police lines in Croatia.

I'm still trying to figure out what's the aim is here - get to anywhere safe or get into europe by any means possible?
What about all the non-syrians who are piggybacking on this crisis? Are they considered refugees too?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Lar Naparka on September 17, 2015, 05:22:22 PM
Lar, I have no idea what you mean, unless you are talking about Refugees only. A lot of refugees come in via direct provision and are not allowed work. These refugees, apparently, will be allowed work.

I work with Ukranians, Russians, Indians, Romanians and others. They all have good jobs.
Okay, Az, as one gentleman to another, I’ll attempt to enlighten you.
You know quite  few from other countries who have good jobs here and so do I. Obviously, the standard of education in some of the countries in question iis at least as good, if not better, than we have here.There’s one hell of a difference although between someone coming here with a job waiting or with definite leads to where he might find one. It happens all the time.
But did any of the immigrants you mention come here without an arse to their trousers or a shirt to their back? Did some or all of them have a working command of English and were aware of the rights of workers in our society?
I know an individual who worked for one of the 3 big supermarket chains.  He was a store manager and quite happy with his pay and conditions when he received a very attractive retirement package.
This was in 2010 when the the economy had started to unravel and he was only in his late 40s and happy with his job. Anyway, he took the money and got out.
But he thought it odd that others with any decent period of service clocked up got similar offers.
He felt opt was some sort of shift in  company policy that led to the retirement offers but it didn't concern him unduly
He quickly found out that his surmise was correct but he didn’t expect what that change was going to be..
He stays in contact with the management as he gets asked in from time to time to cover for someone who is absent ot to help out at busy periods and the likes.
New employees can be let go at a week’s notice. They get the bare minimum wage but are forced to work extra hours without pay so effectively they get less than the minimum wage. They get 20 hours guaranteed work but the management decides where and when they work these hours. Someone could turn up for work and then be let go home after, say, two hours even though they had been told to be on call for eight.
I’m no expert on labour laws but it seems that if anyone working a twenty hours minimum week can get a social welfare top up if they work for only three days. However, if their employed hours extend into the fourth or fifth day, they won’t get this top up at all.
I think it’s fair to say that this company’s policies are the norm elsewhere.
Now if the worker in question comes here as a refugee of any sort or happens to be a fellow-citizen down on his/her luck makes no difference to me. They are all human beings and deserve at the very least the basic human rights the rest of us can take for granted.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on September 17, 2015, 05:36:52 PM
Rioting to get into Hungary isn't going to do anyone any favours.
I find it strange that people fleeing violence will use it themselves. Surely if your priority was safety then being anywhere else in the world bar the place you're in danger would be good enough?

Standing patiently in line would do the trick I suppose??

I can't wait to try the same trick next time I'm in the immigration line at JFK...

Does being a refugee give you licence to bypass any law you feel is unjust? Surely those who are looking for another state to help them should be somewhat respectful there is a due process involved.

So what would you suggest they do?

Now breaking police lines in Croatia.

I'm still trying to figure out what's the aim is here - get to anywhere safe or get into europe by any means possible?
What about all the non-syrians who are piggybacking on this crisis? Are they considered refugees too?

What would you do if you and your family were in that situation foxcommander??
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on September 17, 2015, 05:44:26 PM
Lar, I have no idea what you mean, unless you are talking about Refugees only. A lot of refugees come in via direct provision and are not allowed work. These refugees, apparently, will be allowed work.

I work with Ukranians, Russians, Indians, Romanians and others. They all have good jobs.
Okay, Az, as one gentleman to another, I’ll attempt to enlighten you.
You know quite  few from other countries who have good jobs here and so do I. Obviously, the standard of education in some of the countries in question iis at least as good, if not better, than we have here.There’s one hell of a difference although between someone coming here with a job waiting or with definite leads to where he might find one. It happens all the time.
But did any of the immigrants you mention come here without an arse to their trousers or a shirt to their back? Did some or all of them have a working command of English and were aware of the rights of workers in our society?
I know an individual who worked for one of the 3 big supermarket chains.  He was a store manager and quite happy with his pay and conditions when he received a very attractive retirement package.
This was in 2010 when the the economy had started to unravel and he was only in his late 40s and happy with his job. Anyway, he took the money and got out.
But he thought it odd that others with any decent period of service clocked up got similar offers.
He felt opt was some sort of shift in  company policy that led to the retirement offers but it didn't concern him unduly
He quickly found out that his surmise was correct but he didn’t expect what that change was going to be..
He stays in contact with the management as he gets asked in from time to time to cover for someone who is absent ot to help out at busy periods and the likes.
New employees can be let go at a week’s notice. They get the bare minimum wage but are forced to work extra hours without pay so effectively they get less than the minimum wage. They get 20 hours guaranteed work but the management decides where and when they work these hours. Someone could turn up for work and then be let go home after, say, two hours even though they had been told to be on call for eight.
I’m no expert on labour laws but it seems that if anyone working a twenty hours minimum week can get a social welfare top up if they work for only three days. However, if their employed hours extend into the fourth or fifth day, they won’t get this top up at all.
I think it’s fair to say that this company’s policies are the norm elsewhere.
Now if the worker in question comes here as a refugee of any sort or happens to be a fellow-citizen down on his/her luck makes no difference to me. They are all human beings and deserve at the very least the basic human rights the rest of us can take for granted.

You seem to have gone way off on a tangent Lar!!! I fail to see how labour laws in Ireland are related to the current refugee crisis.

On your point about immigrants who cannot speak English only getting low paid jobs here - of course, they're not going to be hired as a doctor / engineer / accountant ffs, who's going to want to deal with someone who can't speak English, it's simply not practical? Once they learn to speak English, I have no doubt they would be considered for a job on their merits the same as any Irish person

Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on September 17, 2015, 06:12:27 PM
Rioting to get into Hungary isn't going to do anyone any favours.
I find it strange that people fleeing violence will use it themselves. Surely if your priority was safety then being anywhere else in the world bar the place you're in danger would be good enough?

Standing patiently in line would do the trick I suppose??

I can't wait to try the same trick next time I'm in the immigration line at JFK...

Does being a refugee give you licence to bypass any law you feel is unjust? Surely those who are looking for another state to help them should be somewhat respectful there is a due process involved.

So what would you suggest they do?

Now breaking police lines in Croatia.

I'm still trying to figure out what's the aim is here - get to anywhere safe or get into europe by any means possible?
What about all the non-syrians who are piggybacking on this crisis? Are they considered refugees too?

What would you do if you and your family were in that situation foxcommander??

Find the closest place to my home country where they'd be safe. Right now this is like some once in a lifetime get into europe free offer that is attracting the masses.
I don't think anyone has any intention of moving back to syria (or afghanistan, pakistan, ethiopia etc) when the dust settles.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on September 17, 2015, 06:16:18 PM
Rioting to get into Hungary isn't going to do anyone any favours.
I find it strange that people fleeing violence will use it themselves. Surely if your priority was safety then being anywhere else in the world bar the place you're in danger would be good enough?

Standing patiently in line would do the trick I suppose??

I can't wait to try the same trick next time I'm in the immigration line at JFK...

Does being a refugee give you licence to bypass any law you feel is unjust? Surely those who are looking for another state to help them should be somewhat respectful there is a due process involved.

So what would you suggest they do?

Now breaking police lines in Croatia.

I'm still trying to figure out what's the aim is here - get to anywhere safe or get into europe by any means possible?
What about all the non-syrians who are piggybacking on this crisis? Are they considered refugees too?

What would you do if you and your family were in that situation foxcommander??

Find the closest place to my home country where they'd be safe. Right now this is like some once in a lifetime get into europe free offer that is attracting the masses.
I don't think anyone has any intention of moving back to syria (or afghanistan, pakistan, ethiopia etc) when the dust settles.

So you'd be happy with a refugee camp in Lebanon then?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on September 17, 2015, 06:25:26 PM
Rioting to get into Hungary isn't going to do anyone any favours.
I find it strange that people fleeing violence will use it themselves. Surely if your priority was safety then being anywhere else in the world bar the place you're in danger would be good enough?

Standing patiently in line would do the trick I suppose??

I can't wait to try the same trick next time I'm in the immigration line at JFK...

Does being a refugee give you licence to bypass any law you feel is unjust? Surely those who are looking for another state to help them should be somewhat respectful there is a due process involved.

So what would you suggest they do?

Now breaking police lines in Croatia.

I'm still trying to figure out what's the aim is here - get to anywhere safe or get into europe by any means possible?
What about all the non-syrians who are piggybacking on this crisis? Are they considered refugees too?

What would you do if you and your family were in that situation foxcommander??

Find the closest place to my home country where they'd be safe. Right now this is like some once in a lifetime get into europe free offer that is attracting the masses.
I don't think anyone has any intention of moving back to syria (or afghanistan, pakistan, ethiopia etc) when the dust settles.

So you'd be happy with a refugee camp in Lebanon then?

You failed to answer my question - what's the primary aim of heading to europe?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on September 17, 2015, 06:37:23 PM
Rioting to get into Hungary isn't going to do anyone any favours.
I find it strange that people fleeing violence will use it themselves. Surely if your priority was safety then being anywhere else in the world bar the place you're in danger would be good enough?

Standing patiently in line would do the trick I suppose??

I can't wait to try the same trick next time I'm in the immigration line at JFK...

Does being a refugee give you licence to bypass any law you feel is unjust? Surely those who are looking for another state to help them should be somewhat respectful there is a due process involved.

So what would you suggest they do?

Now breaking police lines in Croatia.

I'm still trying to figure out what's the aim is here - get to anywhere safe or get into europe by any means possible?
What about all the non-syrians who are piggybacking on this crisis? Are they considered refugees too?

What would you do if you and your family were in that situation foxcommander??

Find the closest place to my home country where they'd be safe. Right now this is like some once in a lifetime get into europe free offer that is attracting the masses.
I don't think anyone has any intention of moving back to syria (or afghanistan, pakistan, ethiopia etc) when the dust settles.

So you'd be happy with a refugee camp in Lebanon then?

You failed to answer my question - what's the primary aim of heading to europe?

Eh? You didn't ask a question in your previous post.

You'd be happy to simply go to a refugee camp in Lebanon??
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on September 17, 2015, 06:40:40 PM
Rioting to get into Hungary isn't going to do anyone any favours.
I find it strange that people fleeing violence will use it themselves. Surely if your priority was safety then being anywhere else in the world bar the place you're in danger would be good enough?

Standing patiently in line would do the trick I suppose??

I can't wait to try the same trick next time I'm in the immigration line at JFK...

Does being a refugee give you licence to bypass any law you feel is unjust? Surely those who are looking for another state to help them should be somewhat respectful there is a due process involved.

So what would you suggest they do?

Now breaking police lines in Croatia.

I'm still trying to figure out what's the aim is here - get to anywhere safe or get into europe by any means possible?
What about all the non-syrians who are piggybacking on this crisis? Are they considered refugees too?

What would you do if you and your family were in that situation foxcommander??

Find the closest place to my home country where they'd be safe. Right now this is like some once in a lifetime get into europe free offer that is attracting the masses.
I don't think anyone has any intention of moving back to syria (or afghanistan, pakistan, ethiopia etc) when the dust settles.

So you'd be happy with a refugee camp in Lebanon then?

You failed to answer my question - what's the primary aim of heading to europe?

Eh? You didn't ask a question in your previous post.

You'd be happy to simply go to a refugee camp in Lebanon??
Then let me ask it again
 what's the aim is here - get to anywhere safe or get into europe by any means possible?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on September 17, 2015, 06:41:46 PM
Throughout the carpet bombing of the Middle East for over 10 years now, Ireland has allowed the USA to use
Shannon airport as a stopping ground for soldiers, arms, and rendition flights to bring people to torture chambers.

I questioned a FF TD and a FF Senator as to why they allowed this to happen. Both told me it was good for the economy.

So if Ireland was willing to take the quick buck and turn a blind eye to their role in the bloodshed in the Middle East, then
they need to step forward and use that money to help the thousands of refugees that we are to take.

Our history, both recent and longer is littered with stories of mass immigration. We were world leaders at it. I was one of them.
Everywhere I went I get treated with dignity and respect, and no shortage of generosity. The tables have now turned on Ireland
and other EU countries, and we owe it to those now migrating here fleeing conflict a warm hand and a bit of understanding.
Not only do we owe it to ourselves, our ancestors, but to humanity.

When we look back at the images we are now seeing in 10 or 20 years time, what will we say to our children?

Dixie I applaud your personal efforts, but lets keep things straight. Where in the Middle East has the US been carpet bombing for the last 10 years?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Lar Naparka on September 17, 2015, 07:18:22 PM
Lar, I have no idea what you mean, unless you are talking about Refugees only. A lot of refugees come in via direct provision and are not allowed work. These refugees, apparently, will be allowed work.

I work with Ukranians, Russians, Indians, Romanians and others. They all have good jobs.
Okay, Az, as one gentleman to another, I’ll attempt to enlighten you.
You know quite  few from other countries who have good jobs here and so do I. Obviously, the standard of education in some of the countries in question iis at least as good, if not better, than we have here.There’s one hell of a difference although between someone coming here with a job waiting or with definite leads to where he might find one. It happens all the time.
But did any of the immigrants you mention come here without an arse to their trousers or a shirt to their back? Did some or all of them have a working command of English and were aware of the rights of workers in our society?
I know an individual who worked for one of the 3 big supermarket chains.  He was a store manager and quite happy with his pay and conditions when he received a very attractive retirement package.
This was in 2010 when the the economy had started to unravel and he was only in his late 40s and happy with his job. Anyway, he took the money and got out.
But he thought it odd that others with any decent period of service clocked up got similar offers.
He felt opt was some sort of shift in  company policy that led to the retirement offers but it didn't concern him unduly
He quickly found out that his surmise was correct but he didn’t expect what that change was going to be..
He stays in contact with the management as he gets asked in from time to time to cover for someone who is absent ot to help out at busy periods and the likes.
New employees can be let go at a week’s notice. They get the bare minimum wage but are forced to work extra hours without pay so effectively they get less than the minimum wage. They get 20 hours guaranteed work but the management decides where and when they work these hours. Someone could turn up for work and then be let go home after, say, two hours even though they had been told to be on call for eight.
I’m no expert on labour laws but it seems that if anyone working a twenty hours minimum week can get a social welfare top up if they work for only three days. However, if their employed hours extend into the fourth or fifth day, they won’t get this top up at all.
I think it’s fair to say that this company’s policies are the norm elsewhere.
Now if the worker in question comes here as a refugee of any sort or happens to be a fellow-citizen down on his/her luck makes no difference to me. They are all human beings and deserve at the very least the basic human rights the rest of us can take for granted.

You seem to have gone way off on a tangent Lar!!! I fail to see how labour laws in Ireland are related to the current refugee crisis.

On your point about immigrants who cannot speak English only getting low paid jobs here - of course, they're not going to be hired as a doctor / engineer / accountant ffs, who's going to want to deal with someone who can't speak English, it's simply not practical? Once they learn to speak English, I have no doubt they would be considered for a job on their merits the same as any Irish person
No, I think I'm very much on target. I'm not at all referring to immigrants getting low-paid jobs because they don't speak English. How about the native Irish who can't get jobs because there a shortage of jobs and a surplus of labour- all to the benefit of unscrupulous employers.
What about people on zero hour contracts or the likes of those supermarket workers I mentioned in my last post?
You're damn right the refugees/immigrants or whatever you call them will be treated the same  as the Irish. Like dirt.
My point about immigrants who can't get decent jobs here wasn't just about their inability to speak English- far from it. I don't see very many from English speaking countries coming here in search of work anyway.
Alan Kelly, not me, brought up the subject of incoming refugees with qualifications making a positive contribution to our economy.
There are people all around you working to zero or possibly 20 hour contracts with far less rights and entitlements than workers had at any time since the foundation od the state. The INTO, my old TU, carried out a survey on the subject of kids coming to school without breakfast and found that 25% were actually hungry. There is real poverty and starvation in our society and unless the pay and conditions for workers at the lower end of the pay scale improves, things are going tare not going to improve.
To finish where I began, what Alan Kelly had to say was downright disingenuous at best and disgraceful at worst.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on September 17, 2015, 07:43:09 PM
Rioting to get into Hungary isn't going to do anyone any favours.
I find it strange that people fleeing violence will use it themselves. Surely if your priority was safety then being anywhere else in the world bar the place you're in danger would be good enough?

Standing patiently in line would do the trick I suppose??

I can't wait to try the same trick next time I'm in the immigration line at JFK...

Does being a refugee give you licence to bypass any law you feel is unjust? Surely those who are looking for another state to help them should be somewhat respectful there is a due process involved.

So what would you suggest they do?

Now breaking police lines in Croatia.

I'm still trying to figure out what's the aim is here - get to anywhere safe or get into europe by any means possible?
What about all the non-syrians who are piggybacking on this crisis? Are they considered refugees too?

What would you do if you and your family were in that situation foxcommander??

Find the closest place to my home country where they'd be safe. Right now this is like some once in a lifetime get into europe free offer that is attracting the masses.
I don't think anyone has any intention of moving back to syria (or afghanistan, pakistan, ethiopia etc) when the dust settles.

So you'd be happy with a refugee camp in Lebanon then?

You failed to answer my question - what's the primary aim of heading to europe?

Eh? You didn't ask a question in your previous post.

You'd be happy to simply go to a refugee camp in Lebanon??
Then let me ask it again
 what's the aim is here - get to anywhere safe or get into europe by any means possible?

I have absolutely no idea. Sure they should just be happy with the other 1.2million in refugee camps in Lebanon
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on September 17, 2015, 07:46:45 PM
Lar, I have no idea what you mean, unless you are talking about Refugees only. A lot of refugees come in via direct provision and are not allowed work. These refugees, apparently, will be allowed work.

I work with Ukranians, Russians, Indians, Romanians and others. They all have good jobs.
Okay, Az, as one gentleman to another, I’ll attempt to enlighten you.
You know quite  few from other countries who have good jobs here and so do I. Obviously, the standard of education in some of the countries in question iis at least as good, if not better, than we have here.There’s one hell of a difference although between someone coming here with a job waiting or with definite leads to where he might find one. It happens all the time.
But did any of the immigrants you mention come here without an arse to their trousers or a shirt to their back? Did some or all of them have a working command of English and were aware of the rights of workers in our society?
I know an individual who worked for one of the 3 big supermarket chains.  He was a store manager and quite happy with his pay and conditions when he received a very attractive retirement package.
This was in 2010 when the the economy had started to unravel and he was only in his late 40s and happy with his job. Anyway, he took the money and got out.
But he thought it odd that others with any decent period of service clocked up got similar offers.
He felt opt was some sort of shift in  company policy that led to the retirement offers but it didn't concern him unduly
He quickly found out that his surmise was correct but he didn’t expect what that change was going to be..
He stays in contact with the management as he gets asked in from time to time to cover for someone who is absent ot to help out at busy periods and the likes.
New employees can be let go at a week’s notice. They get the bare minimum wage but are forced to work extra hours without pay so effectively they get less than the minimum wage. They get 20 hours guaranteed work but the management decides where and when they work these hours. Someone could turn up for work and then be let go home after, say, two hours even though they had been told to be on call for eight.
I’m no expert on labour laws but it seems that if anyone working a twenty hours minimum week can get a social welfare top up if they work for only three days. However, if their employed hours extend into the fourth or fifth day, they won’t get this top up at all.
I think it’s fair to say that this company’s policies are the norm elsewhere.
Now if the worker in question comes here as a refugee of any sort or happens to be a fellow-citizen down on his/her luck makes no difference to me. They are all human beings and deserve at the very least the basic human rights the rest of us can take for granted.

You seem to have gone way off on a tangent Lar!!! I fail to see how labour laws in Ireland are related to the current refugee crisis.

On your point about immigrants who cannot speak English only getting low paid jobs here - of course, they're not going to be hired as a doctor / engineer / accountant ffs, who's going to want to deal with someone who can't speak English, it's simply not practical? Once they learn to speak English, I have no doubt they would be considered for a job on their merits the same as any Irish person
No, I think I'm very much on target. I'm not at all referring to immigrants getting low-paid jobs because they don't speak English. How about the native Irish who can't get jobs because there a shortage of jobs and a surplus of labour- all to the benefit of unscrupulous employers.
What about people on zero hour contracts or the likes of those supermarket workers I mentioned in my last post?
You're damn right the refugees/immigrants or whatever you call them will be treated the same  as the Irish. Like dirt.
My point about immigrants who can't get decent jobs here wasn't just about their inability to speak English- far from it. I don't see very many from English speaking countries coming here in search of work anyway.
Alan Kelly, not me, brought up the subject of incoming refugees with qualifications making a positive contribution to our economy.
There are people all around you working to zero or possibly 20 hour contracts with far less rights and entitlements than workers had at any time since the foundation od the state. The INTO, my old TU, carried out a survey on the subject of kids coming to school without breakfast and found that 25% were actually hungry. There is real poverty and starvation in our society and unless the pay and conditions for workers at the lower end of the pay scale improves, things are going tare not going to improve.
To finish where I began, what Alan Kelly had to say was downright disingenuous at best and disgraceful at worst.

So are you saying english-speaking immigrants won't get decent jobs?

I fully agree re zero hour contracts, etc but it's nothing to do with the refugee crisis
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Lar Naparka on September 17, 2015, 09:59:51 PM
Lar, I have no idea what you mean, unless you are talking about Refugees only. A lot of refugees come in via direct provision and are not allowed work. These refugees, apparently, will be allowed work.

I work with Ukranians, Russians, Indians, Romanians and others. They all have good jobs.
Okay, Az, as one gentleman to another, I’ll attempt to enlighten you.
You know quite  few from other countries who have good jobs here and so do I. Obviously, the standard of education in some of the countries in question iis at least as good, if not better, than we have here.There’s one hell of a difference although between someone coming here with a job waiting or with definite leads to where he might find one. It happens all the time.
But did any of the immigrants you mention come here without an arse to their trousers or a shirt to their back? Did some or all of them have a working command of English and were aware of the rights of workers in our society?
I know an individual who worked for one of the 3 big supermarket chains.  He was a store manager and quite happy with his pay and conditions when he received a very attractive retirement package.
This was in 2010 when the the economy had started to unravel and he was only in his late 40s and happy with his job. Anyway, he took the money and got out.
But he thought it odd that others with any decent period of service clocked up got similar offers.
He felt opt was some sort of shift in  company policy that led to the retirement offers but it didn't concern him unduly
He quickly found out that his surmise was correct but he didn’t expect what that change was going to be..
He stays in contact with the management as he gets asked in from time to time to cover for someone who is absent ot to help out at busy periods and the likes.
New employees can be let go at a week’s notice. They get the bare minimum wage but are forced to work extra hours without pay so effectively they get less than the minimum wage. They get 20 hours guaranteed work but the management decides where and when they work these hours. Someone could turn up for work and then be let go home after, say, two hours even though they had been told to be on call for eight.
I’m no expert on labour laws but it seems that if anyone working a twenty hours minimum week can get a social welfare top up if they work for only three days. However, if their employed hours extend into the fourth or fifth day, they won’t get this top up at all.
I think it’s fair to say that this company’s policies are the norm elsewhere.
Now if the worker in question comes here as a refugee of any sort or happens to be a fellow-citizen down on his/her luck makes no difference to me. They are all human beings and deserve at the very least the basic human rights the rest of us can take for granted.

You seem to have gone way off on a tangent Lar!!! I fail to see how labour laws in Ireland are related to the current refugee crisis.

On your point about immigrants who cannot speak English only getting low paid jobs here - of course, they're not going to be hired as a doctor / engineer / accountant ffs, who's going to want to deal with someone who can't speak English, it's simply not practical? Once they learn to speak English, I have no doubt they would be considered for a job on their merits the same as any Irish person
No, I think I'm very much on target. I'm not at all referring to immigrants getting low-paid jobs because they don't speak English. How about the native Irish who can't get jobs because there a shortage of jobs and a surplus of labour- all to the benefit of unscrupulous employers.
What about people on zero hour contracts or the likes of those supermarket workers I mentioned in my last post?
You're damn right the refugees/immigrants or whatever you call them will be treated the same  as the Irish. Like dirt.
My point about immigrants who can't get decent jobs here wasn't just about their inability to speak English- far from it. I don't see very many from English speaking countries coming here in search of work anyway.
Alan Kelly, not me, brought up the subject of incoming refugees with qualifications making a positive contribution to our economy.
There are people all around you working to zero or possibly 20 hour contracts with far less rights and entitlements than workers had at any time since the foundation od the state. The INTO, my old TU, carried out a survey on the subject of kids coming to school without breakfast and found that 25% were actually hungry. There is real poverty and starvation in our society and unless the pay and conditions for workers at the lower end of the pay scale improves, things are going tare not going to improve.
To finish where I began, what Alan Kelly had to say was downright disingenuous at best and disgraceful at worst.

So are you saying english-speaking immigrants won't get decent jobs?

I fully agree re zero hour contracts, etc but it's nothing to do with the refugee crisis

Where did I say that??
I referred to non-English speaking immigrants getting menial jobs okay but I did say: I don't see very many from English speaking countries coming here in search of work anyway

Sure, the present crisis is something we haven’t experienced before and the low pay and lousy working conditions were there long  before the the mass influx began.
I am saying that there is real poverty and starvation out there because the labour market is unregulated and that’s to the advantage of employers.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Soup an Samajiz on September 18, 2015, 11:11:45 AM
http://www.joe.ie/news/video-syrian-refugees-kicked-by-camerawoman-treated-like-vips-by-real-madrid/512354
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: give her dixie on September 18, 2015, 01:43:39 PM
Throughout the carpet bombing of the Middle East for over 10 years now, Ireland has allowed the USA to use
Shannon airport as a stopping ground for soldiers, arms, and rendition flights to bring people to torture chambers.

I questioned a FF TD and a FF Senator as to why they allowed this to happen. Both told me it was good for the economy.

So if Ireland was willing to take the quick buck and turn a blind eye to their role in the bloodshed in the Middle East, then
they need to step forward and use that money to help the thousands of refugees that we are to take.

Our history, both recent and longer is littered with stories of mass immigration. We were world leaders at it. I was one of them.
Everywhere I went I get treated with dignity and respect, and no shortage of generosity. The tables have now turned on Ireland
and other EU countries, and we owe it to those now migrating here fleeing conflict a warm hand and a bit of understanding.
Not only do we owe it to ourselves, our ancestors, but to humanity.

When we look back at the images we are now seeing in 10 or 20 years time, what will we say to our children?

Dixie I applaud your personal efforts, but lets keep things straight. Where in the Middle East has the US been carpet bombing for the last 10 years?

Iraq is one
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on September 18, 2015, 08:06:57 PM
Throughout the carpet bombing of the Middle East for over 10 years now, Ireland has allowed the USA to use
Shannon airport as a stopping ground for soldiers, arms, and rendition flights to bring people to torture chambers.

I questioned a FF TD and a FF Senator as to why they allowed this to happen. Both told me it was good for the economy.

So if Ireland was willing to take the quick buck and turn a blind eye to their role in the bloodshed in the Middle East, then
they need to step forward and use that money to help the thousands of refugees that we are to take.

Our history, both recent and longer is littered with stories of mass immigration. We were world leaders at it. I was one of them.
Everywhere I went I get treated with dignity and respect, and no shortage of generosity. The tables have now turned on Ireland
and other EU countries, and we owe it to those now migrating here fleeing conflict a warm hand and a bit of understanding.
Not only do we owe it to ourselves, our ancestors, but to humanity.

When we look back at the images we are now seeing in 10 or 20 years time, what will we say to our children?

Dixie I applaud your personal efforts, but lets keep things straight. Where in the Middle East has the US been carpet bombing for the last 10 years?

Iraq is one

The US pulled out of Iraq in 2011. If they have any activity there now it is attacking ISIS. I would have no problem with that personally, but each to their own.

Shannon Airport is in international airport in a neutral country. It should be available to all. During the Cold War you had Russian and US aircraft side by side, as it should be in a neutral state imho.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Wildweasel74 on September 18, 2015, 08:32:57 PM
When did Russia use Shannon again?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: armaghniac on September 18, 2015, 08:56:53 PM
When did Russia use Shannon again?

Did Russian military ever us Shannon? It was an important base for Aeroflot at one time.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on September 18, 2015, 09:02:27 PM
When did Russia use Shannon again?

Did Russian military ever us Shannon? It was an important base for Aeroflot at one time.

Correct.

Both Ukraine and Russia have had permits granted (same as the US) to fly munitions through Irish airspace in recent years.

I don't have the data but I would be certain the Russian flew military aircraft through our airspace, at the very least,en route to Cuba. They would have required the same permits then as now.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: armaghniac on September 18, 2015, 09:45:25 PM
And of course Boris stopped there for a drink.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Tony Baloney on September 18, 2015, 10:18:15 PM
And of course Boris stopped there for a drink sleep.
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Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: armaghniac on September 18, 2015, 10:23:31 PM
Quote
And of course Boris stopped there for a drink sleep.

And of course Boris stopped there for a drink drunken sleep.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Tony Baloney on September 18, 2015, 10:38:18 PM
Quote
And of course Boris stopped there for a drink sleep.

And of course Boris stopped there for a drink drunken sleep.
His finest hour.

https://youtu.be/cRysHHzLAmM (https://youtu.be/cRysHHzLAmM)
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on September 21, 2015, 03:22:38 PM
Women and children first...oh wait...

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Good to hear that they're starting to think about jailing economic migrants breaking the law. They aren't refugees.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: screenexile on September 21, 2015, 03:35:10 PM
Women and children first...oh wait...

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Good to hear that they're starting to think about jailing economic migrants breaking the law. They aren't refugees.

Yes because that one picture sums up the entire crisis!!

 ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on September 21, 2015, 09:41:07 PM
United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has urged European leaders to ensure refugees and migrants are treated properly as many of them have endured arduous journeys to flee persecution, conflict and human rights abuses.

His spokesman said Mr Ban has "followed with increasing concern the closing of some borders in Europe, as well as the lack of proper reception facilities”.

He has also raised concerns about the “increased use of detention and criminalisation of irregular migrants and asylum seekers"


Sorry Ban Ki-Moon for not rolling out red carpets...lack of proper reception facilities? Encourage more of them?

and as for criminalisation - yep - what they are doing is illegal. They don't have visas to enter the EU.
If the EU didn't offer them welfare they wouldn't be coming in the first place and anyone hiring them illegally should do jail time as well. No excuses.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on September 21, 2015, 11:05:35 PM
What they're doing is illegal? Try looking up the UN convention on the status of refugees

Of course, they should all just wait patiently in Lebanese refugee camps according to you.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: armaghniac on September 22, 2015, 12:37:12 AM
Of course, they should all just wait patiently in Lebanese refugee camps according to you.

Are they in danger in Lebanese refugee camps or do they just not fancy them?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Hardy on September 22, 2015, 08:17:20 AM
Yeah. Who gives a toss about Lebanon? Let them increase their population by 37.5% by taking in Syrian refugees. Nothing to do with us. How can we be expected to take 0.2% of the population of the EU? Wouldn't be fair, would it?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Soup an Samajiz on September 22, 2015, 08:28:15 AM
United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has urged European leaders to ensure refugees and migrants are treated properly as many of them have endured arduous journeys to flee persecution, conflict and human rights abuses.

His spokesman said Mr Ban has "followed with increasing concern the closing of some borders in Europe, as well as the lack of proper reception facilities”.

He has also raised concerns about the “increased use of detention and criminalisation of irregular migrants and asylum seekers"


Sorry Ban Ki-Moon for not rolling out red carpets...lack of proper reception facilities? Encourage more of them?

and as for criminalisation - yep - what they are doing is illegal. They don't have visas to enter the EU.
If the EU didn't offer them welfare they wouldn't be coming in the first place and anyone hiring them illegally should do jail time as well. No excuses.

I'd trade you and your mates in a heartbeat for these refugees. They're escaping war, what part of that don't you understand. Millions of Irish fled these lands during famine and war also, your ancestors maybe... why do you think you are so superior and entitled to anything than these people. A bit of modesty or any basic moral compass. Just help the people out like.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on September 22, 2015, 08:29:05 AM
Of course, they should all just wait patiently in Lebanese refugee camps according to you.

Are they in danger in Lebanese refugee camps or do they just not fancy them?

I have no idea of the security situation there but if it were my family, I wouldn't want the next 5+ years of their lives to be spent in a refugee camp. What would you do if it were you??
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on September 22, 2015, 12:25:43 PM
Of course, they should all just wait patiently in Lebanese refugee camps according to you.

Are they in danger in Lebanese refugee camps or do they just not fancy them?

All it takes is one rocket from some delinquent in Lebanon and Israel would bomb them to pieces. So yes, I would say they are in danger in Lebanon.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on September 22, 2015, 02:35:55 PM
Yeah. Who gives a toss about Lebanon? Let them increase their population by 37.5% by taking in Syrian refugees. Nothing to do with us. How can we be expected to take 0.2% of the population of the EU? Wouldn't be fair, would it?

It's not an EU problem.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on September 22, 2015, 02:42:10 PM
United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has urged European leaders to ensure refugees and migrants are treated properly as many of them have endured arduous journeys to flee persecution, conflict and human rights abuses.

His spokesman said Mr Ban has "followed with increasing concern the closing of some borders in Europe, as well as the lack of proper reception facilities”.

He has also raised concerns about the “increased use of detention and criminalisation of irregular migrants and asylum seekers"


Sorry Ban Ki-Moon for not rolling out red carpets...lack of proper reception facilities? Encourage more of them?

and as for criminalisation - yep - what they are doing is illegal. They don't have visas to enter the EU.
If the EU didn't offer them welfare they wouldn't be coming in the first place and anyone hiring them illegally should do jail time as well. No excuses.

I'd trade you and your mates in a heartbeat for these refugees. They're escaping war, what part of that don't you understand. Millions of Irish fled these lands during famine and war also, your ancestors maybe... why do you think you are so superior and entitled to anything than these people. A bit of modesty or any basic moral compass. Just help the people out like.

Ah jesus - not the famine argument again....
"just help the people out like" - how? Take them to ireland and give them welfare? Is that the answer?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: screenexile on September 22, 2015, 02:47:08 PM
Yeah. Who gives a toss about Lebanon? Let them increase their population by 37.5% by taking in Syrian refugees. Nothing to do with us. How can we be expected to take 0.2% of the population of the EU? Wouldn't be fair, would it?

It's not an EU problem.

Fuckit sure my neighbours house is on fire I'll leave him at it!!

Have we become so consumed with selfishness and greed that this is the default position of most people now... "It's not my problem!"

Sickening really!!!
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Soup an Samajiz on September 22, 2015, 02:56:13 PM
United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has urged European leaders to ensure refugees and migrants are treated properly as many of them have endured arduous journeys to flee persecution, conflict and human rights abuses.

His spokesman said Mr Ban has "followed with increasing concern the closing of some borders in Europe, as well as the lack of proper reception facilities”.

He has also raised concerns about the “increased use of detention and criminalisation of irregular migrants and asylum seekers"

Sorry Ban Ki-Moon for not rolling out red carpets...lack of proper reception facilities? Encourage more of them?

and as for criminalisation - yep - what they are doing is illegal. They don't have visas to enter the EU.
If the EU didn't offer them welfare they wouldn't be coming in the first place and anyone hiring them illegally should do jail time as well. No excuses.

I'd trade you and your mates in a heartbeat for these refugees. They're escaping war, what part of that don't you understand. Millions of Irish fled these lands during famine and war also, your ancestors maybe... why do you think you are so superior and entitled to anything than these people. A bit of modesty or any basic moral compass. Just help the people out like.

Ah jesus - not the famine argument again....
"just help the people out like" - how? Take them to ireland and give them welfare? Is that the answer?

People dying and you wana make sure you and your mates still get your chunk of grants or whatever else. Absolutely give them welfare, they're more deserving than half the dungbags getting it here as it is. Plenty opportunities to get work and countless lazy wastes of space scrounging for years and you think you can pass judgement on these people; skilled workers of all disciplines who have crossed seas and all sorts to get safety - while people here can hardly get up outa their beds but rather swally strongbow all week... so yeah, give them welfare, id take my chances on them bringin more to our society in the long run than the current bigots and ignornant "go-back-to-your-own-country" sayers.

And yeah, the famine argument... if you've heard it so much maybe think about it and take it on board.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Esmarelda on September 22, 2015, 03:33:10 PM
United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has urged European leaders to ensure refugees and migrants are treated properly as many of them have endured arduous journeys to flee persecution, conflict and human rights abuses.

His spokesman said Mr Ban has "followed with increasing concern the closing of some borders in Europe, as well as the lack of proper reception facilities”.

He has also raised concerns about the “increased use of detention and criminalisation of irregular migrants and asylum seekers"


Sorry Ban Ki-Moon for not rolling out red carpets...lack of proper reception facilities? Encourage more of them?

and as for criminalisation - yep - what they are doing is illegal. They don't have visas to enter the EU.
If the EU didn't offer them welfare they wouldn't be coming in the first place and anyone hiring them illegally should do jail time as well. No excuses.

I'd trade you and your mates in a heartbeat for these refugees. They're escaping war, what part of that don't you understand. Millions of Irish fled these lands during famine and war also, your ancestors maybe... why do you think you are so superior and entitled to anything than these people. A bit of modesty or any basic moral compass. Just help the people out like.

Ah jesus - not the famine argument again....
"just help the people out like" - how? Take them to ireland and give them welfare? Is that the answer?
Fire up another photograph there. Threads with pictures are much more interesting.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: screenexile on September 22, 2015, 03:43:19 PM
United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has urged European leaders to ensure refugees and migrants are treated properly as many of them have endured arduous journeys to flee persecution, conflict and human rights abuses.

His spokesman said Mr Ban has "followed with increasing concern the closing of some borders in Europe, as well as the lack of proper reception facilities”.

He has also raised concerns about the “increased use of detention and criminalisation of irregular migrants and asylum seekers"


Sorry Ban Ki-Moon for not rolling out red carpets...lack of proper reception facilities? Encourage more of them?

and as for criminalisation - yep - what they are doing is illegal. They don't have visas to enter the EU.
If the EU didn't offer them welfare they wouldn't be coming in the first place and anyone hiring them illegally should do jail time as well. No excuses.

I'd trade you and your mates in a heartbeat for these refugees. They're escaping war, what part of that don't you understand. Millions of Irish fled these lands during famine and war also, your ancestors maybe... why do you think you are so superior and entitled to anything than these people. A bit of modesty or any basic moral compass. Just help the people out like.

Ah jesus - not the famine argument again....
"just help the people out like" - how? Take them to ireland and give them welfare? Is that the answer?
Fire up another photograph there. Threads with pictures are much more interesting.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on September 22, 2015, 04:19:33 PM
Yeah. Who gives a toss about Lebanon? Let them increase their population by 37.5% by taking in Syrian refugees. Nothing to do with us. How can we be expected to take 0.2% of the population of the EU? Wouldn't be fair, would it?

It's not an EU problem.

Fuckit sure my neighbours house is on fire I'll leave him at it!!

Have we become so consumed with selfishness and greed that this is the default position of most people now... "It's not my problem!"

Sickening really!!!

How about tackling the real issue of why these people are being displaced...Ban Ki-Moon would be better tasked in his job at the UN to deploy his troops to protect syrians in their own country rather than get his spokesman to lecture the EU.

Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Hardy on September 22, 2015, 08:32:08 PM
Yeah. Who gives a toss about Lebanon? Let them increase their population by 37.5% by taking in Syrian refugees. Nothing to do with us. How can we be expected to take 0.2% of the population of the EU? Wouldn't be fair, would it?

It's not an EU problem.

Fuckit sure my neighbours house is on fire I'll leave him at it!!

Have we become so consumed with selfishness and greed that this is the default position of most people now... "It's not my problem!"

Sickening really!!!

How about tackling the real issue of why these people are being displaced...Ban Ki-Moon would be better tasked in his job at the UN to deploy his troops to protect syrians in their own country rather than get his spokesman to lecture the EU.




What?!?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 22, 2015, 08:44:18 PM
"His" troops?!

Who wants to pick up the task of explaining how the UN works?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on September 22, 2015, 08:46:00 PM
"His" troops?!

Who wants to pick up the task of explaining how the UN works?

or doesn't work
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Itchy on September 22, 2015, 09:11:53 PM
I see foxcommander is still talking the moronic shite he was a few weeks ago. What a bollix
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on September 22, 2015, 09:54:55 PM
I see foxcommander is still talking the moronic shite he was a few weeks ago. What a bollix

Welcome back itchy :D
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Rossfan on September 23, 2015, 10:40:53 AM
I see foxcommander is still talking the moronic shite he was a few weeks ago. What a bollix
I put him on my blocked list a long time ago. A total *******
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Hereiam on September 23, 2015, 12:26:23 PM
What will become of these people when the winter sets in.
For the record Britain more or less controls the UN so don't be expecting to much to happen on this front.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on September 23, 2015, 01:58:44 PM
I see foxcommander is still talking the moronic shite he was a few weeks ago. What a bollix
I put him on my blocked list a long time ago. A total *******

Yet you still read my posts  :-*
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: armaghniac on September 23, 2015, 06:51:24 PM
Yeah. Who gives a toss about Lebanon? Let them increase their population by 37.5% by taking in Syrian refugees. Nothing to do with us. How can we be expected to take 0.2% of the population of the EU? Wouldn't be fair, would it?

I think we should be concerned with all of  frontline countries and they should be assisted in every way. However, a Syrian refugee may well be as well off in a refugee camp in Jordan as one in Roscommon and if the Irish government is to fund such camps then it might well be better value to fund one in Jordan. Many of the Syrians are employable and can make a life in EU, others are not and do not really want to be in the EU, the just want some level of comfort.

The basic point here is that people contend that if the quality of life in one place doesn't suit then you have an unrestricted right to go whereever you wish, regardless of the laws of that place. I do not accept this. So Lebanon is not good enough, nor Greece, Serbia, Croatia, Hungary or even Austria, but Germany might do. But you wouldn't like Leipzig or Bremen, it would really have to be Munich. It is really the EU's job to facilitate everyone living in Munich and anything less is a disgrace.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on September 23, 2015, 06:54:28 PM
Yeah. Who gives a toss about Lebanon? Let them increase their population by 37.5% by taking in Syrian refugees. Nothing to do with us. How can we be expected to take 0.2% of the population of the EU? Wouldn't be fair, would it?

I think we should be concerned with all of  frontline countries and they should be assisted in every way. However, a Syrian refugee may well be as well off in a refugee camp in Jordan as one in Roscommon and if the Irish government is to fund such camps then it might well be better value to fund one in Jordan. Many of the Syrians are employable and can make a life in EU, others are not and do not really want to be in the EU, the just want some level of comfort.

The basic point here is that people contend that if the quality of life in one place doesn't suit then you have an unrestricted right to go whereever you wish, regardless of the laws of that place. I do not accept this. So Lebanon is not good enough, nor Greece, Serbia, Croatia, Hungary or even Austria, but Germany might do. But you wouldn't like Leipzig or Bremen, it would really have to be Munich. It is really the EU's job to facilitate everyone living in Munich and anything less is a disgrace.

In fact, you seem to have spectacularly missed the "basic point" here
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Itchy on September 23, 2015, 07:06:43 PM
I assume armaghmaniac would be happy if the coffin ships going to America during the famine were all turned away because England was closer and adequate.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: armaghniac on September 23, 2015, 07:16:46 PM
In fact, you seem to have spectacularly missed the "basic point" here

Well tell me so.
Are you contending that a refugee has an unlimited right to go whereever they wish regardless of the laws of the places they go to? If you are contending this, does this right also extend to everyone who doesn't like where they are?

I assume armaghmaniac would be happy if the coffin ships going to America during the famine were all turned away because England was closer and adequate.

This is a lazy analogy, as circumstances in the the New World in the 19th century were quite different. But then lazy analysis is par for the course here. But if I was a posting in 1846 I would probably have said that England should have sorted out the conditions in Ireland so that coffin ships were not needed.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on September 23, 2015, 07:24:10 PM
In fact, you seem to have spectacularly missed the "basic point" here

Well tell me so.
Are you contending that a refugee has an unlimited right to go whereever they wish regardless of the laws of the places they go to? If you are contending this, does this right also extend to everyone who doesn't like where they are?


I'm not contending any such thing.

The fact of the matter is that these refugees are here whether you like it or not. Now something has to be done to help them, I contend that we and all of Europe have a duty to provide them with refuge

What do you propose that we do with them??
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: armaghniac on September 23, 2015, 07:33:00 PM
The fact of the matter is that these refugees are here whether you like it or not. Now something has to be done to help them, I contend that we and all of Europe have a duty to provide them with refuge

What do you propose that we do with them??

Define refuge? food and a place  to live, a place to live at a place of their choosing? A job?
Does this apply only to Syrians or also the Pakistanis, Indians etc in the mobs attacking police in Hungary?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Itchy on September 23, 2015, 07:39:08 PM
In fact, you seem to have spectacularly missed the "basic point" here

Well tell me so.
Are you contending that a refugee has an unlimited right to go whereever they wish regardless of the laws of the places they go to? If you are contending this, does this right also extend to everyone who doesn't like where they are?

I assume armaghmaniac would be happy if the coffin ships going to America during the famine were all turned away because England was closer and adequate.

This is a lazy analogy, as circumstances in the the New World in the 19th century were quite different. But then lazy analysis is par for the course here. But if I was a posting in 1846 I would probably have said that England should have sorted out the conditions in Ireland so that coffin ships were not needed.

Yes, that's the point you would have said exactly that and 2 million people would have died instead of 1 million. Might I ask if you consider yourself a Christian?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on September 23, 2015, 07:49:41 PM
The fact of the matter is that these refugees are here whether you like it or not. Now something has to be done to help them, I contend that we and all of Europe have a duty to provide them with refuge

What do you propose that we do with them??

Define refuge? food and a place  to live, a place to live at a place of their choosing? A job?
Does this apply only to Syrians or also the Pakistanis, Indians etc in the mobs attacking police in Hungary?

I answered your question. You answer mine - what do you propose we do with them??
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on September 23, 2015, 09:01:00 PM
The fact of the matter is that these refugees are here whether you like it or not. Now something has to be done to help them, I contend that we and all of Europe have a duty to provide them with refuge

What do you propose that we do with them??

Open the gates, let everyone in  ::)
Austerity - what austerity? Bring all your family and relatives over. We'll pick up the tabs.
The Medical cards are on me!

Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 23, 2015, 09:13:41 PM
If they're paying taxes then why shouldn't they have a medical card?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on September 23, 2015, 09:13:43 PM
The fact of the matter is that these refugees are here whether you like it or not. Now something has to be done to help them, I contend that we and all of Europe have a duty to provide them with refuge

What do you propose that we do with them??

Open the gates, let everyone in  ::)
Austerity - what austerity? Bring all your family and relatives over. We'll pick up the tabs.
The Medical cards are on me!

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on September 23, 2015, 09:17:25 PM
If they're paying taxes then why shouldn't they have a medical card?

I don't think you actually understand what you've just wrote.

I'm still waiting to hear if you made it over to Oakland....
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Itchy on September 23, 2015, 10:00:16 PM
Are you English fox. I mean you've no county in your profile and you talk pure shite like a right little britainer Tory boy. Add in xenophobic and its sorta clear then. Check out the Britain first people, they'd be right up your alley.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: armaghniac on September 23, 2015, 10:37:26 PM
Are you English fox. I mean you've no county in your profile and you talk pure shite like a right little britainer Tory boy.

One of the disappointing things about refugee threads is that racism enters into it eventually.......
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Hardy on September 23, 2015, 11:35:03 PM
Yeah. Who gives a toss about Lebanon? Let them increase their population by 37.5% by taking in Syrian refugees. Nothing to do with us. How can we be expected to take 0.2% of the population of the EU? Wouldn't be fair, would it?

I think we should be concerned with all of  frontline countries and they should be assisted in every way. However, a Syrian refugee may well be as well off in a refugee camp in Jordan as one in Roscommon and if the Irish government is to fund such camps then it might well be better value to fund one in Jordan.

Perhaps we should be providing material assistance to the Lebanese and Jordanians. I don't know about Jordan, bet here's what "as well off" sounds like in a Lebanese refugee camp:
http://podcast.rasset.ie/podcasts/audio/2015/0923/20150923_rteradio1-morningireland-refugeesfl_c20850665_20850683_232_.mp3
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: armaghniac on September 24, 2015, 12:38:56 AM
Perhaps we should be providing material assistance to the Lebanese and Jordanians.

We absolutely should.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on September 24, 2015, 05:49:09 AM
Perhaps we should be providing material assistance to the Lebanese and Jordanians.

We absolutely should.

The is little point in having a policy of sustaining refugee camps in places like the Lebanon with a neighbour like Israel: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/03/us-appalled-disgraceful-israeli-shelling-gaza-un-school (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/03/us-appalled-disgraceful-israeli-shelling-gaza-un-school)
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: armaghniac on September 24, 2015, 07:36:45 AM
Perhaps we should be providing material assistance to the Lebanese and Jordanians.

We absolutely should.

The is little point in having a policy of sustaining refugee camps in places like the Lebanon with a neighbour like Israel: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/03/us-appalled-disgraceful-israeli-shelling-gaza-un-school (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/03/us-appalled-disgraceful-israeli-shelling-gaza-un-school)

The proper cure there is to put manners on Isreal.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Itchy on September 24, 2015, 08:31:18 AM
Who would've thought little britainers and Tories were a "race". Thanks for that definition armaghmaniac even if it is pure stupid
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on September 24, 2015, 09:35:32 AM
Yes, we should be providing more assistance to countries where there are large refugee camps but do we expect refugees to stay there endlessly?? Is there a plan for removing them from refugee camps?

 A quick google will return places like Dadaab and Breidjing Camp which have been open for years - once refugees go there, are they just expected to put their lives on hold?? It's no wonder they're flocking to Europe, at least there's some chance of a decent life for them and their families here besides being stuck in some sort of limbo in a refugee camp
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on September 24, 2015, 01:24:43 PM
 8)
Are you English fox. I mean you've no county in your profile and you talk pure shite like a right little britainer Tory boy. Add in xenophobic and its sorta clear then. Check out the Britain first people, they'd be right up your alley.

Maybe you should read up on what xenophobia is after your little rant. I think you might have just outed yourself!!
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Itchy on September 24, 2015, 06:13:54 PM
8)
Are you English fox. I mean you've no county in your profile and you talk pure shite like a right little britainer Tory boy. Add in xenophobic and its sorta clear then. Check out the Britain first people, they'd be right up your alley.

Maybe you should read up on what xenophobia is after your little rant. I think you might have just outed yourself!!

Fear of foreigners, only explanation I have for your shitty and uncharitable comments
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: seafoid on September 24, 2015, 07:52:06 PM
Yeah. Who gives a toss about Lebanon? Let them increase their population by 37.5% by taking in Syrian refugees. Nothing to do with us. How can we be expected to take 0.2% of the population of the EU? Wouldn't be fair, would it?

I think we should be concerned with all of  frontline countries and they should be assisted in every way. However, a Syrian refugee may well be as well off in a refugee camp in Jordan as one in Roscommon and if the Irish government is to fund such camps then it might well be better value to fund one in Jordan.

Perhaps we should be providing material assistance to the Lebanese and Jordanians. I don't know about Jordan, bet here's what "as well off" sounds like in a Lebanese refugee camp:
http://podcast.rasset.ie/podcasts/audio/2015/0923/20150923_rteradio1-morningireland-refugeesfl_c20850665_20850683_232_.mp3

a good point well made, Hardy. Jordan and Lebanon are poor countries shouldering the biggest burdens.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on October 03, 2015, 06:16:55 PM
I propose the following swap.

Ruth Coppinger and her cronies go to the refugee camps, and we take the refugees.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/1003/732213-showhouse-occupation/ (http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/1003/732213-showhouse-occupation/)
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Rossfan on October 03, 2015, 07:47:40 PM
I propose the following swap.

Ruth Coppinger and her cronies go to the refugee camps, and we take the refugees.

+1 ;D
And send Mandate and Unite Executives as well. Fcukin about in loonyleft politics instead of working for their members.
Eejits.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: stew on October 03, 2015, 08:49:01 PM
Here's a thought, why not tell Putin to get the f**k out of Syria  and if he does not get the f**k out of Syria the yanks and their allies should go in and take out that animal that runs the place, clean house and oversee the general elections, very democratically of course.  :)

President Obama is weak and Putin can smell blood in the water, Putin attacked areas that did not even have terrorists in it, he is the puppetmaster of the propped up dolt in charge and no one has the balls to do anything about it!

If the shit hits the fan the Israelis will unleash hell in Syria, they are a tremendous military machine, if they go in there even though the yanks tell them not to the yanks will back them!

You have Kerry, that idiot diplomat talking word salad and confusing even himself, he looks weaker that the President.

Liberals cannot make the big decisions anymore, BO needs to grow a pair but it is too late and the sad thing is, if they went after the Syrian government they would oust this b**tard and Putin would back off, then when the country was stabilized you could send the refugees back home in really large ships and all would be right in the world.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on October 03, 2015, 08:51:29 PM
Here's a thought, why not tell Putin to get the f**k out of Syria  and if he does not get the f**k out of Syria the yanks and their allies should go in and take out that animal that runs the place, clean house and oversee the general elections, very democratically of course.  :)

President Obama is weak and Putin can smell blood in the water, Putin attacked areas that did not even have terrorists in it, he is the puppetmaster of the propped up dolt in charge and no one has the balls to do anything about it!

If the shit hits the fan the Israelis will unleash hell in Syria, they are a tremendous military machine, if they go in there even though the yanks tell them not to the yanks will back them!

You have Kerry, that idiot diplomat talking word salad and confusing even himself, he looks weaker that the President.

Liberals cannot make the big decisions anymore, BO needs to grow a pair but it is too late and the sad thing is, if they went after the Syrian government they would oust this b**tard and Putin would back off, then when the country was stabilized you could send the refugees back home in really large ships and all would be right in the world.

Great idea!

Double ISIS territory and have even more beheadings.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: stew on October 03, 2015, 08:59:29 PM
Here's a thought, why not tell Putin to get the f**k out of Syria  and if he does not get the f**k out of Syria the yanks and their allies should go in and take out that animal that runs the place, clean house and oversee the general elections, very democratically of course.  :)

President Obama is weak and Putin can smell blood in the water, Putin attacked areas that did not even have terrorists in it, he is the puppetmaster of the propped up dolt in charge and no one has the balls to do anything about it!

If the shit hits the fan the Israelis will unleash hell in Syria, they are a tremendous military machine, if they go in there even though the yanks tell them not to the yanks will back them!

You have Kerry, that idiot diplomat talking word salad and confusing even himself, he looks weaker that the President.

Liberals cannot make the big decisions anymore, BO needs to grow a pair but it is too late and the sad thing is, if they went after the Syrian government they would oust this b**tard and Putin would back off, then when the country was stabilized you could send the refugees back home in really large ships and all would be right in the world.

Great idea!

Double ISIS territory and have even more beheadings.

Really, quite the statistician arent you!

What would you do? Nothing, just let that KGB kn**ker prop an evil b**tard whilst ISIS are killing men, women and children all over the shop?

If you want to get the Syrian refugees back home you must have a stable environment for them to come to, how is that going to happen under this regime with Putin kicking sand in Obamas face????

Riddle me that!

Russia is weaker than they are letting on, Putin is a bully and something needs to be done, if nothing is done these poor people will never see their homeland again and countries all over the world will carry the burden of housing them and feeding them etc forever!
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on October 03, 2015, 09:02:51 PM
Here's a thought, why not tell Putin to get the f**k out of Syria  and if he does not get the f**k out of Syria the yanks and their allies should go in and take out that animal that runs the place, clean house and oversee the general elections, very democratically of course.  :)

President Obama is weak and Putin can smell blood in the water, Putin attacked areas that did not even have terrorists in it, he is the puppetmaster of the propped up dolt in charge and no one has the balls to do anything about it!

If the shit hits the fan the Israelis will unleash hell in Syria, they are a tremendous military machine, if they go in there even though the yanks tell them not to the yanks will back them!

You have Kerry, that idiot diplomat talking word salad and confusing even himself, he looks weaker that the President.

Liberals cannot make the big decisions anymore, BO needs to grow a pair but it is too late and the sad thing is, if they went after the Syrian government they would oust this b**tard and Putin would back off, then when the country was stabilized you could send the refugees back home in really large ships and all would be right in the world.

Great idea!

Double ISIS territory and have even more beheadings.

Really, quite the statistician arent you!

What would you do? Nothing, just let that KGB kn**ker prop an evil b**tard whilst ISIS are killing men, women and children all over the shop?

If you want to get the Syrian refugees back home you must have a stable environment for them to come to, how is that going to happen under this regime with Putin kicking sand in Obamas face????

Riddle me that!

Russia is weaker than they are letting on, Putin is a bully and something needs to be done, if nothing is done these poor people will never see their homeland again and countries all over the world will carry the burden of housing them and feeding them etc forever!

Russia is f*cked. Putin doing a few air strikes to appear relevant. The White House has destroyed his economy, the smart way.

You want to go in and remove Assad, without a single thought of what comes next?

Have you learnt nothing from 'Shock and Awe' in Iraq in 2003?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: stew on October 03, 2015, 09:07:23 PM
As of September 10th of this year Russia allowed the sum total of two Syrian refugees into their country! TWO!

The KGB monster that runs the place has attacked Syrians and neatly sidestepped the places they are entrenched, all to prop up the hated dictator, meanwhile the Chinese are sending their one really big warship to the middle east to attack the ISIS problem, meanwhile at the ranch the west sits on its hands, led by a coward from the far left, Puting is leading him by the nose, I know this, if Putin f**ks with Israel or put her in a potentially bad spot Israel will more than bloody his nose, shit will get real very quickly.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on October 03, 2015, 09:09:35 PM
As of September 10th of this year Russia allowed the sum total of two Syrian refugees into their country! TWO!

The KGB monster that runs the place has attacked Syrians and neatly sidestepped the places they are entrenched, all to prop up the hated dictator, meanwhile the Chinese are sending their one really big warship to the middle east to attack the ISIS problem, meanwhile at the ranch the west sits on its hands, led by a coward from the far left, Puting is leading him by the nose, I know this, if Putin f**ks with Israel or put her in a potentially bad spot Israel will more than bloody his nose, shit will get real very quickly.

Don't forget to check for the red under the bed.

Oíche mhaith.  ;)
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: stew on October 03, 2015, 09:11:27 PM
Here's a thought, why not tell Putin to get the f**k out of Syria  and if he does not get the f**k out of Syria the yanks and their allies should go in and take out that animal that runs the place, clean house and oversee the general elections, very democratically of course.  :)

President Obama is weak and Putin can smell blood in the water, Putin attacked areas that did not even have terrorists in it, he is the puppetmaster of the propped up dolt in charge and no one has the balls to do anything about it!

If the shit hits the fan the Israelis will unleash hell in Syria, they are a tremendous military machine, if they go in there even though the yanks tell them not to the yanks will back them!

You have Kerry, that idiot diplomat talking word salad and confusing even himself, he looks weaker that the President.

Liberals cannot make the big decisions anymore, BO needs to grow a pair but it is too late and the sad thing is, if they went after the Syrian government they would oust this b**tard and Putin would back off, then when the country was stabilized you could send the refugees back home in really large ships and all would be right in the world.

Great idea!

Double ISIS territory and have even more beheadings.

Really, quite the statistician arent you!

What would you do? Nothing, just let that KGB kn**ker prop an evil b**tard whilst ISIS are killing men, women and children all over the shop?

If you want to get the Syrian refugees back home you must have a stable environment for them to come to, how is that going to happen under this regime with Putin kicking sand in Obamas face????

Riddle me that!

Russia is weaker than they are letting on, Putin is a bully and something needs to be done, if nothing is done these poor people will never see their homeland again and countries all over the world will carry the burden of housing them and feeding them etc forever!

Russia is f*cked. Putin doing a few air strikes to appear relevant. The White House has destroyed his economy, the smart way.

You want to go in and remove Assad, without a single thought of what comes next?

Have you learnt nothing from 'Shock and Awe' in Iraq in 2003?

Right, that was smart, the problem is the Chinese are coming to prop him up, lets face it, Putin is a communist as are obviously the Chinese, together they could do real damage in the region.

If they had any grudging respect for Obama they would probably not push his buttons, since they know him to be a weakling they are going to collectively bully him!

The longer Putin has a say in the region, the longer it is going to take to stabilize to region, he is a cancer and should be treated like one.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: stew on October 03, 2015, 09:13:46 PM
As of September 10th of this year Russia allowed the sum total of two Syrian refugees into their country! TWO!

The KGB monster that runs the place has attacked Syrians and neatly sidestepped the places they are entrenched, all to prop up the hated dictator, meanwhile the Chinese are sending their one really big warship to the middle east to attack the ISIS problem, meanwhile at the ranch the west sits on its hands, led by a coward from the far left, Puting is leading him by the nose, I know this, if Putin f**ks with Israel or put her in a potentially bad spot Israel will more than bloody his nose, shit will get real very quickly.

Don't forget to check for the red under the bed.

Oíche mhaith.  ;)

I don't fear communism, I hate every facet of it, the hypocrisy of it and the damage it does to society!

If you dont see what is happening here there is something wrong muppet! They are treating the president like the clown he is.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on October 03, 2015, 09:14:50 PM
Here's a thought, why not tell Putin to get the f**k out of Syria  and if he does not get the f**k out of Syria the yanks and their allies should go in and take out that animal that runs the place, clean house and oversee the general elections, very democratically of course.  :)

President Obama is weak and Putin can smell blood in the water, Putin attacked areas that did not even have terrorists in it, he is the puppetmaster of the propped up dolt in charge and no one has the balls to do anything about it!

If the shit hits the fan the Israelis will unleash hell in Syria, they are a tremendous military machine, if they go in there even though the yanks tell them not to the yanks will back them!

You have Kerry, that idiot diplomat talking word salad and confusing even himself, he looks weaker that the President.

Liberals cannot make the big decisions anymore, BO needs to grow a pair but it is too late and the sad thing is, if they went after the Syrian government they would oust this b**tard and Putin would back off, then when the country was stabilized you could send the refugees back home in really large ships and all would be right in the world.

Great idea!

Double ISIS territory and have even more beheadings.

Really, quite the statistician arent you!

What would you do? Nothing, just let that KGB kn**ker prop an evil b**tard whilst ISIS are killing men, women and children all over the shop?

If you want to get the Syrian refugees back home you must have a stable environment for them to come to, how is that going to happen under this regime with Putin kicking sand in Obamas face????

Riddle me that!

Russia is weaker than they are letting on, Putin is a bully and something needs to be done, if nothing is done these poor people will never see their homeland again and countries all over the world will carry the burden of housing them and feeding them etc forever!

Russia is f*cked. Putin doing a few air strikes to appear relevant. The White House has destroyed his economy, the smart way.

You want to go in and remove Assad, without a single thought of what comes next?

Have you learnt nothing from 'Shock and Awe' in Iraq in 2003?

Right, that was smart, the problem is the Chinese are coming to prop him up, lets face it, Putin is a communist as are obviously the Chinese, together they could do real damage in the region.

If they had any grudging respect for Obama they would probably not push his buttons, since they know him to be a weakling they are going to collectively bully him!

The longer Putin has a say in the region, the longer it is going to take to stabilize to region, he is a cancer and should be treated like one.

Really?

Have you been following their stock market and economic data?

But they do own the US, after all of the dollars that Bush/Obama printed.

BTW Putin is no commie. He is a dictator. Left/right doesn't matter to him.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on October 03, 2015, 09:16:53 PM
As of September 10th of this year Russia allowed the sum total of two Syrian refugees into their country! TWO!

The KGB monster that runs the place has attacked Syrians and neatly sidestepped the places they are entrenched, all to prop up the hated dictator, meanwhile the Chinese are sending their one really big warship to the middle east to attack the ISIS problem, meanwhile at the ranch the west sits on its hands, led by a coward from the far left, Puting is leading him by the nose, I know this, if Putin f**ks with Israel or put her in a potentially bad spot Israel will more than bloody his nose, shit will get real very quickly.

Don't forget to check for the red under the bed.

Oíche mhaith.  ;)

I don't fear communism, I hate every facet of it, the hypocrisy of it and the damage it does to society!

If you dont see what is happening here there is something wrong muppet! They are treating the president like the clown he is.

I have no time for communism and I believe that while our banks bankrupted Ireland, it was EU socialists that forced us to pick up the tab. The US allowed over 100 banks to go bust at the start of the crash. The ECB allowed none and made us pay for it.

We are not as different as you think we are, but I would be much slower to go to war.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: stew on October 03, 2015, 09:19:06 PM
Here's a thought, why not tell Putin to get the f**k out of Syria  and if he does not get the f**k out of Syria the yanks and their allies should go in and take out that animal that runs the place, clean house and oversee the general elections, very democratically of course.  :)

President Obama is weak and Putin can smell blood in the water, Putin attacked areas that did not even have terrorists in it, he is the puppetmaster of the propped up dolt in charge and no one has the balls to do anything about it!

If the shit hits the fan the Israelis will unleash hell in Syria, they are a tremendous military machine, if they go in there even though the yanks tell them not to the yanks will back them!

You have Kerry, that idiot diplomat talking word salad and confusing even himself, he looks weaker that the President.

Liberals cannot make the big decisions anymore, BO needs to grow a pair but it is too late and the sad thing is, if they went after the Syrian government they would oust this b**tard and Putin would back off, then when the country was stabilized you could send the refugees back home in really large ships and all would be right in the world.

Great idea!

Double ISIS territory and have even more beheadings.

Really, quite the statistician arent you!

What would you do? Nothing, just let that KGB kn**ker prop an evil b**tard whilst ISIS are killing men, women and children all over the shop?

If you want to get the Syrian refugees back home you must have a stable environment for them to come to, how is that going to happen under this regime with Putin kicking sand in Obamas face????

Riddle me that!

Russia is weaker than they are letting on, Putin is a bully and something needs to be done, if nothing is done these poor people will never see their homeland again and countries all over the world will carry the burden of housing them and feeding them etc forever!

Russia is f*cked. Putin doing a few air strikes to appear relevant. The White House has destroyed his economy, the smart way.

You want to go in and remove Assad, without a single thought of what comes next?

Have you learnt nothing from 'Shock and Awe' in Iraq in 2003?

Right, that was smart, the problem is the Chinese are coming to prop him up, lets face it, Putin is a communist as are obviously the Chinese, together they could do real damage in the region.

If they had any grudging respect for Obama they would probably not push his buttons, since they know him to be a weakling they are going to collectively bully him!

The longer Putin has a say in the region, the longer it is going to take to stabilize to region, he is a cancer and should be treated like one.

Really?

Have you been following their stock market and economic data?

But they do own the US, after all of the dollars that Bush/Obama printed.

BTW Putin is no commie. He is a dictator. Left/right doesn't matter to him.

I do follow the stock market, I trade stock every day.

China's economy is sputtering, Russia is, as you say, fecked and as soon as they elect Trump he will make us all oodles of cash and start WW3  :P
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: stew on October 03, 2015, 09:22:29 PM
As of September 10th of this year Russia allowed the sum total of two Syrian refugees into their country! TWO!

The KGB monster that runs the place has attacked Syrians and neatly sidestepped the places they are entrenched, all to prop up the hated dictator, meanwhile the Chinese are sending their one really big warship to the middle east to attack the ISIS problem, meanwhile at the ranch the west sits on its hands, led by a coward from the far left, Puting is leading him by the nose, I know this, if Putin f**ks with Israel or put her in a potentially bad spot Israel will more than bloody his nose, shit will get real very quickly.

Don't forget to check for the red under the bed.

Oíche mhaith.  ;)

I don't fear communism, I hate every facet of it, the hypocrisy of it and the damage it does to society!

If you dont see what is happening here there is something wrong muppet! They are treating the president like the clown he is.

I have no time for communism and I believe that while our banks bankrupted Ireland, it was EU socialists that forced us to pick up the tab. The US allowed over 100 banks to go bust at the start of the crash. The ECB allowed none and made us pay for it.

We are not as different as you think we are, but I would be much slower to go to war.

There is a war coming if Putin continues to have a huge say in Syria, the Israelis will take so much before Benjy decides to pull the pin, he is a bad b**tard too by the way but I would take him over the Chinese or Putin..............Just.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on October 15, 2015, 03:28:47 PM
Nothing in the world worse than slow internet

http://youtu.be/Q_XHkgScOSY
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Esmarelda on October 15, 2015, 03:32:19 PM
Nothing in the world worse than slow internet

http://youtu.be/Q_XHkgScOSY
I don't know. A broken record must be a close second.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Kursk on October 29, 2015, 07:14:40 PM
Looks like there will be a lot more Refugees on the way if this keeps up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQpxNA-uku4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQpxNA-uku4)

On the plus side it will at least lend some clarity to the situation.

The weak,confused,  impotent American response has caused this thing to drag on and on and on.
Now everybody knows the rules. Its Assad/Russia v all other parties in Syria. Everybody knows the US and Europe wont lift a finger so
the Russians are free to do what the want and will not be bound by any silly western style hand wringing. Good. That is what is needed.

I expect to see FSA start negotiating pronto. IS will then have a choice. They can focus their energies back toward Iraq/kurds  or else try and take
on the Russians and get bombed back to the 9th century which is where they belong anyway.
 
I really, really hope they choose the latter. ;)

Go Vlad !
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on October 29, 2015, 07:19:44 PM
Cool.

Russia decides to 'shock and awe' them.

That always works as planned and will definitely fix everything.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Kursk on October 29, 2015, 07:37:26 PM
Just to be clear, I think it is a tragedy for Syria and ordinary Syrians on the ground but something had to give.In the short term, there will be pain but  I think it will help bring more clarity to the situation. FSA will see that they cant win. IS will understand that there is now somebody with a very big stick on the scene and the Americans will see that the age of American hegemony/imperialism is at an end.

There is no real downside for Russia either. Chechnya should serve as an example for any jihadis that might have any ideas. 
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Kursk on October 29, 2015, 08:37:39 PM
Cool.

Russia decides to 'shock and awe' them.

That always works as planned and will definitely fix everything.

It is different with Russia. They have no ideological motives in the sense that they will simply do what is in Russian interest. This freedom of action combined with modern military technology will prevent them getting bogged down ala Afganistan or like the Americans in Iraq (who made the mistake of boots on the ground/win hearts and mind bullshit  ...idiots ::)).

They don't have the moral baggage that Europeans and Americans have or, rather, they don't feel the need to lie about moral motives to justify their actions. Once  this clarity is in place then everybody will know which side to take. The cold war was a period of uncertainty but, if we are honest, it was better than what we have now.

I think, eventually, Russian, Chinese, European interests will align along a system loosely based on oligarchical capitalism which is light on human rights but strong on security. People will eventually go along with this as it their best choice among a limited pick.

Russia is not a threat to the west. Indeed, Russia (and China) are probably the best hope of preserving western ideals but the west must accept that these ideals must ONLY apply within western borders. 

http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/insidestory/2015/02/russia-force-good-world-150211181821795.html (http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/insidestory/2015/02/russia-force-good-world-150211181821795.html)
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: give her dixie on October 29, 2015, 10:08:38 PM
The human side to the escalation in Syria has been a massive influx of people crossing from Turkey into Greece,
especially the islands, with Lesbos the most popular.  Over the past week or 2 there has been a massive increase in
the number of people crossing, and last night was a pretty bad night. I came across this blog entry from someone who
was on the ground and describes what it was like on the shores as the coast guards rescued dozens from the sea

http://mariennapw.com/2015/10/29/entry-iii-the-sinking-of-the-nameless-recollections-of-a-volunteerjournalist/
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Rossfan on October 29, 2015, 10:29:33 PM
This "Kursk" seems a great bit of craic. Hang shoot flog blah blah.
He would have found a perfect home in Germany in the 1930s :D
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Kursk on October 29, 2015, 10:32:37 PM
The human side to the escalation in Syria has been a massive influx of people crossing from Turkey into Greece,
especially the islands, with Lesbos the most popular.  Over the past week or 2 there has been a massive increase in
the number of people crossing, and last night was a pretty bad night. I came across this blog entry from someone who
was on the ground and describes what it was like on the shores as the coast guards rescued dozens from the sea

http://mariennapw.com/2015/10/29/entry-iii-the-sinking-of-the-nameless-recollections-of-a-volunteerjournalist/

Yes. It is tragic. What gets me is the way European Nations pay lip service but don't do anything ! This paragraph is a case in point

"And as long as the EU refuses to grant these refugees safe legal passage, the smugglers will continue to exploit them. Ultimately, it is our governments with the power, resources and responsibility to act, who I hold responsible for what happened last night; and what is happening in so many nights in so many places across Europe now."

ffs, children are dying. Step up Europe. The total population of Europe is about 0.8 billion (??). For the sake of argument lets assume a billion. The total number of refugees (in turkey) is only 4 million so that is only one 1 refugee for every 250 people. It is a tiny percentage.

The way I see it, Europe is like a moral repository and has a duty to accept these people while those with less morals (US, Israel, Assad, IS etc) fight it out.



Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Kursk on October 29, 2015, 10:41:13 PM
This "Kursk" seems a great bit of craic. Hang shoot flog blah blah.
He would have found a perfect home in Germany in the 1930s :D

On the contrary, I am sick of the usual narrative. I wish for peace for Sunni/Shia/Syrians/Palestinians etc and until somebody with a big stick
steps in and protects the rights of these people against the other major powers (e.g. US/Israeli imperialism) then nothing will be resolved in this region.

As for Europe, I make no apologies for wishing our secular, liberal societies continue to exist I simply acknowledge that we cannot impose our ideals on others. Is there something in particular that I have said that you disagree with ?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Kursk on October 29, 2015, 11:00:55 PM
I'll give you an example why I think you are very misguided about attributing "Nazi" motives to my advocating for Russian power

Imagine there are a group of fanatics who are throwing a man off a building for being gay. Imagine there are another group of
pragmatists trying to kill said fanatics who have no particular love for said gay man but are prepared to step in and stop this atrocity
from happening (in the course of achieving their selfish objectives).

Imagine there are another group of people, lets call them "idealists" who organize a protest march 2000 miles away to condemn the atrocity that is about to take place but wont condone their own military forces to stop it.

who is more morally correct in this situation ?

http://heavy.com/news/2015/08/new-isis-islamic-state-video-but-who-is-better-than-god-in-judgment-establishing-a-limit-upon-the-people-homs-syria-gay-homosexual-man-executed-executed-uncensored-full-youtube-video/ (http://heavy.com/news/2015/08/new-isis-islamic-state-video-but-who-is-better-than-god-in-judgment-establishing-a-limit-upon-the-people-homs-syria-gay-homosexual-man-executed-executed-uncensored-full-youtube-video/)
 
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: trileacman on October 29, 2015, 11:03:42 PM
I'll give you an example why I think you are very misguided about attributing "Nazi" motives to my advocating for Russian power

Imagine there are a group of fanatics who are throwing a man off a building for being gay. Imagine there are another group of
pragmatists trying to kill said fanatics who have no particular love for said gay man but are prepared to step in and stop this atrocity
from happening (in the course of achieving their selfish objectives).

Imagine there are another group of people, lets call them "idealists" who organize a protest march 2000 miles away to condemn the atrocity that is about to take place but wont condone their own military forces to stop it.

who is more morally correct in this situation ?

http://heavy.com/news/2015/08/new-isis-islamic-state-video-but-who-is-better-than-god-in-judgment-establishing-a-limit-upon-the-people-homs-syria-gay-homosexual-man-executed-executed-uncensored-full-youtube-video/ (http://heavy.com/news/2015/08/new-isis-islamic-state-video-but-who-is-better-than-god-in-judgment-establishing-a-limit-upon-the-people-homs-syria-gay-homosexual-man-executed-executed-uncensored-full-youtube-video/)
 

You're way too sensible and pragmatic for this forum, my advice is leave now with your hopes for rational debate intact.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Kursk on October 29, 2015, 11:21:30 PM
I'll give you an example why I think you are very misguided about attributing "Nazi" motives to my advocating for Russian power

Imagine there are a group of fanatics who are throwing a man off a building for being gay. Imagine there are another group of
pragmatists trying to kill said fanatics who have no particular love for said gay man but are prepared to step in and stop this atrocity
from happening (in the course of achieving their selfish objectives).

Imagine there are another group of people, lets call them "idealists" who organize a protest march 2000 miles away to condemn the atrocity that is about to take place but wont condone their own military forces to stop it.

who is more morally correct in this situation ?

http://heavy.com/news/2015/08/new-isis-islamic-state-video-but-who-is-better-than-god-in-judgment-establishing-a-limit-upon-the-people-homs-syria-gay-homosexual-man-executed-executed-uncensored-full-youtube-video/ (http://heavy.com/news/2015/08/new-isis-islamic-state-video-but-who-is-better-than-god-in-judgment-establishing-a-limit-upon-the-people-homs-syria-gay-homosexual-man-executed-executed-uncensored-full-youtube-video/)
 

You're way too sensible and pragmatic for this forum, my advice is leave now with your hopes for rational debate intact.

The problem is twofold. On the one hand everybody is constrained by western political correctness (i.e. can't challenge the  US/Zionist narrative) along with hand wringing European don't-want-to-offend attitudes . On the other hand people have sisters, brothers who are gay, friends that are minorities and they see these absolute scumbags (IS) killing everybody that does not fit into their narrative and they long for someone to step in and annihilate the b**tards.

Russia steps into this void. That is why the Russia/China axis will eventually win. Military/Political certainty aligned with economic power is an irresistible combination. The US is finished. Brute force will win hearts and minds in the face of an existential threat.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: stew on October 29, 2015, 11:22:38 PM
The human side to the escalation in Syria has been a massive influx of people crossing from Turkey into Greece,
especially the islands, with Lesbos the most popular.  Over the past week or 2 there has been a massive increase in
the number of people crossing, and last night was a pretty bad night. I came across this blog entry from someone who
was on the ground and describes what it was like on the shores as the coast guards rescued dozens from the sea

http://mariennapw.com/2015/10/29/entry-iii-the-sinking-of-the-nameless-recollections-of-a-volunteerjournalist/

Yes. It is tragic. What gets me is the way European Nations pay lip service but don't do anything ! This paragraph is a case in point

"And as long as the EU refuses to grant these refugees safe legal passage, the smugglers will continue to exploit them. Ultimately, it is our governments with the power, resources and responsibility to act, who I hold responsible for what happened last night; and what is happening in so many nights in so many places across Europe now."

ffs, children are dying. Step up Europe. The total population of Europe is about 0.8 billion (??). For the sake of argument lets assume a billion. The total number of refugees (in turkey) is only 4 million so that is only one 1 refugee for every 250 people. It is a tiny percentage.

The way I see it, Europe is like a moral repository and has a duty to accept these people while those with less morals (US, Israel, Assad, IS etc) fight it out.

Europe has stepped up, which is more than some Muslim countries did, Russia was very loathe to help these people and are helping prop up an animal, their puppet!
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: stew on October 29, 2015, 11:28:05 PM
The human side to the escalation in Syria has been a massive influx of people crossing from Turkey into Greece,
especially the islands, with Lesbos the most popular.  Over the past week or 2 there has been a massive increase in
the number of people crossing, and last night was a pretty bad night. I came across this blog entry from someone who
was on the ground and describes what it was like on the shores as the coast guards rescued dozens from the sea

http://mariennapw.com/2015/10/29/entry-iii-the-sinking-of-the-nameless-recollections-of-a-volunteerjournalist/

Yes. It is tragic. What gets me is the way European Nations pay lip service but don't do anything ! This paragraph is a case in point

"And as long as the EU refuses to grant these refugees safe legal passage, the smugglers will continue to exploit them. Ultimately, it is our governments with the power, resources and responsibility to act, who I hold responsible for what happened last night; and what is happening in so many nights in so many places across Europe now."

ffs, children are dying. Step up Europe. The total population of Europe is about 0.8 billion (??). For the sake of argument lets assume a billion. The total number of refugees (in turkey) is only 4 million so that is only one 1 refugee for every 250 people. It is a tiny percentage.

The way I see it, Europe is like a moral repository and has a duty to accept these people while those with less morals (US, Israel, Assad, IS etc) fight it out.

So you think the Russians and Europeans have superior morals than the yanks?

Germany has stepped up tremendously whilst some Muslim states wanted nothing to do with these people.

Morality is dead when politics encompasses a situation like this, Americans have given more aid over the past hundred than any other nation, the Russians do little in comparison and Putin is a despicable  KGB war criminal.

Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Kursk on October 29, 2015, 11:35:47 PM
The human side to the escalation in Syria has been a massive influx of people crossing from Turkey into Greece,
especially the islands, with Lesbos the most popular.  Over the past week or 2 there has been a massive increase in
the number of people crossing, and last night was a pretty bad night. I came across this blog entry from someone who
was on the ground and describes what it was like on the shores as the coast guards rescued dozens from the sea

http://mariennapw.com/2015/10/29/entry-iii-the-sinking-of-the-nameless-recollections-of-a-volunteerjournalist/

Yes. It is tragic. What gets me is the way European Nations pay lip service but don't do anything ! This paragraph is a case in point

"And as long as the EU refuses to grant these refugees safe legal passage, the smugglers will continue to exploit them. Ultimately, it is our governments with the power, resources and responsibility to act, who I hold responsible for what happened last night; and what is happening in so many nights in so many places across Europe now."

ffs, children are dying. Step up Europe. The total population of Europe is about 0.8 billion (??). For the sake of argument lets assume a billion. The total number of refugees (in turkey) is only 4 million so that is only one 1 refugee for every 250 people. It is a tiny percentage.

The way I see it, Europe is like a moral repository and has a duty to accept these people while those with less morals (US, Israel, Assad, IS etc) fight it out.

Europe has stepped up, which is more than some Muslim countries did, Russia was very loathe to help these people and are helping prop up an animal, their puppet!

Stew, I would agree with you but you are mixing up weak "humanitarian" gestures with actually doing something. If somebody bombs green bay is your first reaction to retreat to Minneseota and organize humanitarian aid or is your first reaction to confront the aggressors with whatever force you can muster?

We call all agree that Russia is lacking by European/American moral standards but I think we can also all agree that European/US moral standards are past their sell by date and must be copmpromized in the modern world ?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Kursk on October 29, 2015, 11:40:30 PM
The human side to the escalation in Syria has been a massive influx of people crossing from Turkey into Greece,
especially the islands, with Lesbos the most popular.  Over the past week or 2 there has been a massive increase in
the number of people crossing, and last night was a pretty bad night. I came across this blog entry from someone who
was on the ground and describes what it was like on the shores as the coast guards rescued dozens from the sea

http://mariennapw.com/2015/10/29/entry-iii-the-sinking-of-the-nameless-recollections-of-a-volunteerjournalist/

Yes. It is tragic. What gets me is the way European Nations pay lip service but don't do anything ! This paragraph is a case in point

"And as long as the EU refuses to grant these refugees safe legal passage, the smugglers will continue to exploit them. Ultimately, it is our governments with the power, resources and responsibility to act, who I hold responsible for what happened last night; and what is happening in so many nights in so many places across Europe now."

ffs, children are dying. Step up Europe. The total population of Europe is about 0.8 billion (??). For the sake of argument lets assume a billion. The total number of refugees (in turkey) is only 4 million so that is only one 1 refugee for every 250 people. It is a tiny percentage.

The way I see it, Europe is like a moral repository and has a duty to accept these people while those with less morals (US, Israel, Assad, IS etc) fight it out.

So you think the Russians and Europeans have superior morals than the yanks?

Germany has stepped up tremendously whilst some Muslim states wanted nothing to do with these people.

Morality is dead when politics encompasses a situation like this, Americans have given more aid over the past hundred than any other nation, the Russians do little in comparison and Putin is a despicable  KGB war criminal.

I wouldn't say Russia has "superior" morals but I would ask you how strong are your morals if you are not prepared to defend them ? What does it actually mean to be "moral" ? Talk is cheap. For example, if Russia was allowed more influence in the Balkans in the mid 90's perhaps srebinicia could have been avoided. Instead Nato rattled their sabre and the serbs were forced to react.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Kursk on October 29, 2015, 11:48:36 PM
The human side to the escalation in Syria has been a massive influx of people crossing from Turkey into Greece,
especially the islands, with Lesbos the most popular.  Over the past week or 2 there has been a massive increase in
the number of people crossing, and last night was a pretty bad night. I came across this blog entry from someone who
was on the ground and describes what it was like on the shores as the coast guards rescued dozens from the sea

http://mariennapw.com/2015/10/29/entry-iii-the-sinking-of-the-nameless-recollections-of-a-volunteerjournalist/

Yes. It is tragic. What gets me is the way European Nations pay lip service but don't do anything ! This paragraph is a case in point

"And as long as the EU refuses to grant these refugees safe legal passage, the smugglers will continue to exploit them. Ultimately, it is our governments with the power, resources and responsibility to act, who I hold responsible for what happened last night; and what is happening in so many nights in so many places across Europe now."

ffs, children are dying. Step up Europe. The total population of Europe is about 0.8 billion (??). For the sake of argument lets assume a billion. The total number of refugees (in turkey) is only 4 million so that is only one 1 refugee for every 250 people. It is a tiny percentage.

The way I see it, Europe is like a moral repository and has a duty to accept these people while those with less morals (US, Israel, Assad, IS etc) fight it out.

So you think the Russians and Europeans have superior morals than the yanks?

Germany has stepped up tremendously whilst some Muslim states wanted nothing to do with these people.

Morality is dead when politics encompasses a situation like this, Americans have given more aid over the past hundred than any other nation, the Russians do little in comparison and Putin is a despicable  KGB war criminal.

one other point.  giving aid is meaningless if the motives are not pure. Throwing money at poor, ill educated people is poor substitute for a coherent foreign policy.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: give her dixie on October 30, 2015, 12:06:40 AM
The human side to the escalation in Syria has been a massive influx of people crossing from Turkey into Greece,
especially the islands, with Lesbos the most popular.  Over the past week or 2 there has been a massive increase in
the number of people crossing, and last night was a pretty bad night. I came across this blog entry from someone who
was on the ground and describes what it was like on the shores as the coast guards rescued dozens from the sea

http://mariennapw.com/2015/10/29/entry-iii-the-sinking-of-the-nameless-recollections-of-a-volunteerjournalist/

Yes. It is tragic. What gets me is the way European Nations pay lip service but don't do anything ! This paragraph is a case in point

"And as long as the EU refuses to grant these refugees safe legal passage, the smugglers will continue to exploit them. Ultimately, it is our governments with the power, resources and responsibility to act, who I hold responsible for what happened last night; and what is happening in so many nights in so many places across Europe now."

ffs, children are dying. Step up Europe. The total population of Europe is about 0.8 billion (??). For the sake of argument lets assume a billion. The total number of refugees (in turkey) is only 4 million so that is only one 1 refugee for every 250 people. It is a tiny percentage.

The way I see it, Europe is like a moral repository and has a duty to accept these people while those with less morals (US, Israel, Assad, IS etc) fight it out.

Europe has stepped up, which is more than some Muslim countries did, Russia was very loathe to help these people and are helping prop up an animal, their puppet!

Stew, over 2 million refugees are in Lebanon, Jordan has hundreds of thousands, Turkey the same.......

It's not about what others are doing at this stage, it's about helping those on the move at the minute. I know you agree.

I have been following the Lesbos situation very closely as I have friends there for the past few weeks, and the past few
days have been terrible. It's nearly all volunteers who are helping out with donations, and hardly and aid groups are on the ground.

I watched this Drone footage of people on the move and all I can hear in my head is the Pogues song "Thousands Are Sailing"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBa7pJo-yPg
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Kursk on October 30, 2015, 12:23:32 AM
Here is some more footage from Russian Television (RT) of the human catastrophe that Europe refuses to deal with

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvT8epRM_-Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvT8epRM_-Q)
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on October 30, 2015, 12:41:13 PM
Putin, like Thatcher and the Falklands, needs a war to distract from his ailing economy. This one suits him nicely because although he is supporting a bad guy in the eyes of the West, he is also fighting against the evil ISIS. It is a no brainer for him to exploit the political paradoxes involved.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Kursk on October 30, 2015, 01:43:05 PM
Whilst Russia , like any other country, has its economic problems the "distraction from ailing economy" is a line that is deliberately over emphasized by western media. The Russians are smart enough not to over extend themselves. You must remember that they will not incur the expense of any attempt at rebuilding civil institutions etc and all the other humanitarian nonsense that the Americans engaged in as a cover for imperialism. Turkey, lebanon and Europe will bear the humanitarian expense and quite right as well since all these counties have, in many ways, been complicit in what has been going on in the middle east, and specifically Syria,  for decades.

Instead of imposing sanctions on Russia, Europe should be engaging with them to find ways of meeting Europes energy needs so that they have less dependence on the Middle east. People will eventually see that Russia is a much more natural ally to Europe than the US. It's key advantage over the US in terms of Europe/Asian relations is its proximity to everything that is going on. 
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on October 30, 2015, 01:46:49 PM
Whilst Russia , like any other country, has its economic problems the "distraction from ailing economy" is a line that is deliberately over emphasized by western media. The Russians are smart enough not to over extend themselves. You must remember that they will not incur the expense of any attempt at rebuilding civil institutions etc and all the other humanitarian nonsense that the Americans engaged in as a cover for imperialism. Turkey, lebanon and Europe will bear the humanitarian expense and quite right as well since all these counties have, in many ways, been complicit in what has been going on in the middle east, and specifically Syria,  for decades.

Instead of imposing sanctions on Russia, Europe should be engaging with them to find ways of meeting Europes energy needs so that they have less dependence on the Middle east. People will eventually see that Russia is a much more natural ally to Europe than the US. It's key advantage over the US in terms of Europe/Asian relations is its proximity to everything that is going on.

I didn't read that in any media story. The words you quoted are mine, not lifted from anywhere else.

What you did was to use a simple device to discredit my post. You invented a source, 'western media', without providing any evidence, and you then discredited that source.

Some of us can think for ourselves thank you.

Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Kursk on October 30, 2015, 01:53:48 PM
Some of us can think for ourselves thank you.

were you not the one that just presented your analysis of putins motives as a "no brainer" ? perhaps you should follow your own advice.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on October 30, 2015, 02:01:56 PM
Some of us can think for ourselves thank you.

were you not the one that just presented your analysis of putins motives as a "no brainer" ? perhaps you should follow your own advice.

It is a no brainer.

Are you able to debate the point, or do you merely insult anyone that has a different view to yours?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Kursk on October 30, 2015, 02:16:40 PM
Where did I insult you ?

Look, I have no interest in engaging in personalized tit-for-tat exchanges with you. Looking at your posting history it seems you like to get involved in these kind of things a lot.

Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on October 30, 2015, 02:24:31 PM
Putin's interference in Syria has to be seen in the context of other events.

Not least John McCain's agitation in Ukraine. There he was hugely influential in having a democratically elected crook overthrown and two unelected, but pro-west, crooks put in his place. No doubt he was influential in getting Ukraine a haircut on it's sovereign debt, something that the west denied Greece, but then Greece isn't in the old USSR.

McCain has some interesting friends in the Ukraine: http://www.businessinsider.com/john-mccain-meets-oleh-tyahnybok-in-ukraine-2013-12?op=1&IR=T (http://www.businessinsider.com/john-mccain-meets-oleh-tyahnybok-in-ukraine-2013-12?op=1&IR=T)

I can't couch for this blog but they make some interesting claims: http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2014/01/07/us-ngo-uncovered-in-ukraine-protests/ (http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2014/01/07/us-ngo-uncovered-in-ukraine-protests/)

Russia's response was violent and criminal, but to be expected. Anyone who expected differently of Putin is nuts.

The Democrat in the White House, since then, played a smart game and crashed oil prices. This has really put the squeeze on Putin while it also brought Iran to the negotiating table.

Putin is a long way from any negotiation table.

So now he has jumped into the Syrian conflict.

Putin is predictable.

I am more fascinated to see Obama administration's next move.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on October 30, 2015, 02:26:57 PM
Where did I insult you ?

Look, I have no interest in engaging in personalized tit-for-tat exchanges with you. Looking at your posting history it seems you like to get involved in these kind of things a lot.


 :D :D :D :D

You don't even see the irony do you?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Kursk on October 30, 2015, 02:56:10 PM
It may have been violent but to say it was criminal is a step too far imho. Essentially what is going in Ukraine is a civil war. You can argue that Russia helped kick it off but so did Europe and I think it was inevitable anyway. The majority of Ukrainians in the east identify as Russian. They have as much right to self determination as any other group right ? Europe can't choose what are the "good" causes for self determination and the "bad" causes.

Also, predictable is good. People want to know that their leaders actually reflect their will. The reason the EU  is doomed to fail (and probably democracy in Europe as we know it, if we are not careful) is that there are two parts to it. One you elect your leaders and two they actually do what you elect them to do. That is not happening. Not only are they not implementing the will of the people they are doing the exact opposite. Putin reflects the will of the Russian people, make no mistake about that. The reason the UK were caught completely unawares by the size of the tory election victory is that people are simply afraid to verbalize what they actually think due to political correctness. Putin and Russia are completely free of this nonsense and therefore have a great advantage.   

Of course none of this means that Putin is likeable or that the Russian state is likeable. However, that is irrelevant because the time of soft power is over.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on October 30, 2015, 04:16:29 PM
Many people see the downing of MH17 as a war crime: http://nypost.com/2014/07/21/dutch-prosecutors-launch-war-crimes-probe-into-flight-mh17/ (http://nypost.com/2014/07/21/dutch-prosecutors-launch-war-crimes-probe-into-flight-mh17/)
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Kursk on October 30, 2015, 04:47:42 PM
It is a warzone. the plane should never have been there in the first place. The key question is whether they knew the plane was a civilian craft when they shot it down. If they did it is a war crime. If they didn't then they are idiots that should have taken more care to identify if it was a legitimate target but it would not count as a war crime.

Anyway, who cares what the Dutch say. What are they actually going to do if they find them guilty ?

Putin, rightfully, will just ignore them.  It matters not a jot what these international courts do or what the UN says. Its all just talking shop nonsense. Nobody will enforce the judgements.

Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on October 30, 2015, 05:05:22 PM
The reason the Dutch are involved is that the flight originated in Amsterdam. Under international law they are obliged to be involved. 

The answer to 'who cares what the Dutch says' is: quite a significant part of the rest of the world. And certainly the nations who had passengers on board, including Germany, UK, Australia and the USA.

If they prove it was a war crime it and find Russia guilty, it will be a big deal. If the Russians refuse to co-operate they will probably face UN sanctions and more Putin allies will have their foreign assets frozen. Russia is big enough to tough isolation out for a while, but it is far more likely that a diplomatic solution will be worked out, probably involving an admission by the Russians and some form of compensation.

Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Kursk on October 30, 2015, 06:06:47 PM
..and what you are seeing in Syria is , partially, Russias response to those sanctions. Europe will be made pay for their sins. Also keep in mind that eastern European countries have also been hurt by Russian counter sanctions. When 4million more refugees turn up in Europe next year and , especially when they start shunting them into Eastern Europe, then farmer Josef,  whose livelihood has been decimated because he cant sell his cheese to Russia will be apoplectic with rage when he sees people tramping across his fields. Things will get very tasty then.  When push comes to shove people wont give a shite about the people on that plane. I know that sounds harsh but it is simply a fact of life.

That's even before we start talking about North Africa. Who knows what devilment can be started there. All Russia has to do is start some fires and leave the Europeans and US to deal with the consequences. There could be 10's of millions flooding into Europe if Europe and the US up the ante.

So yes, Europe/US can certainly make like difficult for them. However Russia, by virtue of it not being tied to any PC nonsense, have myriad ways of responding.Also don't underestimate Russian nationalism. they were humiliated after the collapse of the Berlin wall and they have a much higher threshold for economic hardship than westerners. It will take an awful lot to make them back down and turn on Putin. Europe will suffer greatly if they take them on.

Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on October 30, 2015, 06:15:12 PM
..and what you are seeing in Syria is , partially, Russias response to those sanctions. Europe will be made pay for their sins. Also keep in mind that eastern European countries have also been hurt by Russian counter sanctions. When 4million more refugees turn up in Europe next year and , especially when they start shunting them into Eastern Europe, then farmer Josef,  whose livelihood has been decimated because he cant sell his cheese to Russia will be apoplectic with rage when he sees people tramping across his fields. Things will get very tasty then.  When push comes to shove people wont give a shite about the people on that plane. I know that sounds harsh but it is simply a fact of life.

That's even before we start talking about North Africa. Who knows what devilment can be started there. All Russia has to do is start some fires and leave the Europeans and US to deal with the consequences. There could be 10's of millions flooding into Europe if Europe and the US up the ante.

So yes, Europe/US can certainly make like difficult for them. However Russia, by virtue of it not being tied to any PC nonsense, have myriad ways of responding.Also don't underestimate Russian nationalism. they were humiliated after the collapse of the Berlin wall and they have a much higher threshold for economic hardship than westerners. It will take an awful lot to make them back down and turn on Putin. Europe will suffer greatly if they take them on.

Russia's ability to punish countries in Europe is waning with the falling cost of energy among other things: http://uk.businessinsider.com/russia-losing-european-gas-2015-1?op=1?r=US&IR=T (http://uk.businessinsider.com/russia-losing-european-gas-2015-1?op=1?r=US&IR=T)
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on October 30, 2015, 06:50:49 PM

The Democrat in the White House, since then, played a smart game and crashed oil prices. This has really put the squeeze on Putin while it also brought Iran to the negotiating table.

I don't think Obama can take credit for falling oil prices. Is it not just a case of the emergence of shale oil / gas in the last few years coupled with the global recession which has driven down oil prices due to OPEC not cutting production levels in order to preserve market share and put the squeeze on the shale producers 
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on October 30, 2015, 07:05:46 PM

The Democrat in the White House, since then, played a smart game and crashed oil prices. This has really put the squeeze on Putin while it also brought Iran to the negotiating table.

I don't think Obama can take credit for falling oil prices. Is it not just a case of the emergence of shale oil / gas in the last few years coupled with the global recession which has driven down oil prices due to OPEC not cutting production levels in order to preserve market share and put the squeeze on the shale producers

They aren't taking credit for it.

But Saudi and the US are crashing the price of oil to hurt Putin and Iran. Russia and Iran are allies of Assad. Saudi and the US are not.

http://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/Did-The-Saudis-And-The-US-Collude-In-Dropping-Oil-Prices.html (http://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/Did-The-Saudis-And-The-US-Collude-In-Dropping-Oil-Prices.html)
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on October 30, 2015, 07:13:33 PM
A theory backed up with little enough tbf muppet
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Kursk on October 30, 2015, 07:30:02 PM
The price of energy rises and falls. This is a fact that all energy producers have to deal with. Also, there are too many vested interests in the US to keep the price artificially low for too long. The Russians know this and they Russian people know this as well and they are willing, and able, to outlast the effects of any economic war. The thing about an economic war in the modern globalized economy is that the effects are felt worldwide. The cant be controlled fully and , unlike the collateral damage of an actual battlefield,  the collateral damage will affect the populations of the aggressor as well e.g, my example of the east European  farmer.

There is also the Saudi angle. The Russians know that the Saudies  are vulnerable on the human rights issue. Have you noticed the uptick of stories about floggings of human rights activists etc ? I don't think that is entirely accidental. Western media is overwhelmingly anti-Russian but with the rise of alternative news sources this is beginning to change. The Russians can actively use this trend. Show enough images of Saudi brutality and link it to the economic war and eventually people will start wondering why, exactly, are Russia the enemy and these are our "friends".

Europeans need to understand that this is a fight they cannot win. They simply don't have the will. Europe is to the modern world as the Ottoman empire once was to Europe. They are the weakest link. The US is far away and , ultimately, will become isolationist because their indecisive, muddled actions will cost them too much.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on October 30, 2015, 08:19:55 PM
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/30/us-venezuela-oil-idUSKBN0K802020141230 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/30/us-venezuela-oil-idUSKBN0K802020141230)

Maduro blames plunging oil prices on U.S. 'war' vs Russia, Venezuela

..........Giving the latest figure for Monday, Maduro repeated his socialist government's accusations that the plunge in oil was a U.S.-planned conspiracy primarily intended to harm Russia.

"Did you know there's an oil war? And the war has an objective: to destroy Russia," he said in a speech to state businessmen carried live on state TV.

"It's a strategically planned war ... also aimed at Venezuela, to try and destroy our revolution and cause an economic collapse," he added, accusing the United States of trying to flood the market with shale oil....


http://www.cbsnews.com/news/iran-fall-in-oil-prices-is-treachery/ (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/iran-fall-in-oil-prices-is-treachery/)

TEHRAN, Iran - Iran's President Hassan Rouhani said Wednesday that the sharp fall in global oil prices is the result of "treachery," in an apparent reference to regional rival Saudi Arabia, which opposed production cuts.

Oil prices have plunged by more than 40 percent since June to less than $70 a barrel, placing severe strain on Iran's economy, which is already hobbled by international sanctions imposed over its nuclear program. An OPEC meeting last month failed to reach agreement on production curbs, mainly because of Saudi opposition.

Rouhani told a Cabinet meeting Wednesday that the fall in prices is at least partly "politically motivated," the result of a "conspiracy against the interests of the region, the Muslim people and the Muslim world."


http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-secret-stupid-saudi-us-deal-on-syria/5410130 (http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-secret-stupid-saudi-us-deal-on-syria/5410130)

....Since June when ISIS suddenly captured the oil-rich region of Iraq around Mosul and Kirkuk, the benchmark Brent price of crude oil dropped some 20% from $112 to about $88. World daily demand for oil has not dropped by 20% however. China oil demand has not fallen 20% nor has US domestic shale oil stock risen by 21%.....

ISIS or any other terrorist outfit gaining control of oil-rich regions should trigger a RISE in oil prices, in the way potential hurricane damage used to, for fears of a reduction in supply.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Kursk on October 30, 2015, 08:36:10 PM
it wont work. Too many vested interests. The money will eventually talk in Washington.  Halliburton cut their workforce by 16% do you really think they will stand for much more ? and we all know that these companies run the US government.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/sudden-drop-in-crude-oil-prices-roils-u-s-energy-firms-rebound-1437903002 (http://www.wsj.com/articles/sudden-drop-in-crude-oil-prices-roils-u-s-energy-firms-rebound-1437903002)
 
Quote
July 26, 2015 5:30 a.m. ET
 
 200 COMMENTS   
 
U.S. energy companies are planning more layoffs, asset sales and financial maneuvers to deal with a recent, sudden drop in U.S. crude-oil prices to under $50 a barrel, the lowest level in four months.

The companies had been banking on a rebound in oil prices in the second half of 2015 after falling sharply late last year. Prices began to regain ground in the spring, rising so quickly that some American producers started hiring back drilling rigs to pump more crude. That speedy return to the oil patch and the threat of new Iranian oil production have pushed down prices more than 20% over the past six weeks to $48.14 as of Friday , bringing storm clouds back to the energy patch.

Oil-field services providers that help drill wells have quietly revealed job cuts that were deeper than initially announced, and warned of more layoffs to come.  Halliburton Co.  and  Baker Hughes Inc.,  two big service companies that plan to merge, disclosed last week that they had cut 27,000 jobs between them, double the 13,500 they announced in February.

Initially, Halliburton expected to reduce its workforce by 8%, but ultimately cut it by 16%. Baker Hughes first announced it would cut about 10% of its jobs, but cut 21%.

“We continue to evaluate our operations and will make further adjustments as required to adjust to market conditions,”  Christian Garcia, Halliburton’s acting chief financial officer, told investors.



Advertisement




Baker Hughes management called the layoffs a difficult decision and said other cost-cutting measures have been rolled out across the company, too.

Nearly 50,000 energy jobs have been lost in the past three months on top of 100,000 employees laid off since oil prices started to tumble last fall, according to Graves & Co., a Houston energy consultancy. Initial rounds of layoffs this year tended to be blue-collar jobs, such as roughnecks on drilling sites, fracking crews and workers at industrial-equipment manufacturers.

Now the job cuts are starting to extend to engineers and scientists.

ConocoPhillips, one of the world’s largest oil-and-gas exploration companies, has already cut nearly 1,500 jobs so far this year, according to Graves. But the Houston-based company is planning more layoffs for this fall that could number into the thousands, according to people familiar with the matter.

“We are currently reviewing and adjusting our workforce levels in light of an extended period of low prices,” said  Daren Beaudo, a spokesman for the company. “We’ve informed our workforce that reductions should be expected. It would be premature to speculate or estimate at this time.”

Many oil-exploration companies hesitate to lay off geoscientists and other highly skilled workers, said Dennis Cassidy, the Dallas-based managing director of oil and gas at Alix Partners, a global consulting firm. That reluctance stems from the oil crash of the mid-1980s, when so many educated workers were let go that it created a talent gap the industry struggled to fill for 20 years.

“The last thing a company wants to do is dismantle the dream team they took a decade to put together,” Mr. Cassidy said.

U.S. energy producers proved surprisingly resilient in the first half of the year amid languishing crude prices, aided by a flood of investment from Wall Street that was counting on an industry rebound. Hedging programs, which lock in a guaranteed minimum price for oil, also helped protect sellers against the price drop.

But many are likely to run into trouble as the year progresses if prices don’t rebound, Mr. Cassidy said. “Everybody was hopeful, but it feels like the hangover is dragging on.”

The problem is partly of the companies’ own making. Even as they slashed their budgets and drilled fewer wells, they coaxed more fuel out of the ground than ever before. American oil production finally appears to be flattening out after climbing sharply for five years, but U.S. Energy Department now pegs it at 9.7 million barrels a day, the highest since 1971.

Of course low energy prices are a boon to consumers—from American drivers to international airlines—who have been buying more cheap gasoline, diesel and jet fuel. But their purchases have hardly been enough to sop up the global glut of oil. And if a sanctions-ending nuclear deal with Iran goes into effect, the OPEC nation could put as much as a million barrels a day into the already saturated market sometime in the next year.

Oil-hedging programs that protected many companies from falling prices will begin expiring this fall, leaving them exposed to the low price of crude. Those with lots of debt and poor liquidity could be forced into bankruptcy; others with valuable pipelines or oil-and-gas fields might have to start selling off assets to raise cash, according to Simmons & Co. International, an energy investment bank.

U.S. producers have typically hedged 50% of their projected annual oil output, but most are heading into 2016 with hedges that cover just 15% of the oil they expect to pump.

Terry Marshall, an analyst at Moody’s Investors Service, said hedges panned out for companies as oil prices plunged from $100 a barrel to $50, but going forward many producers need higher crude prices to turn a profit.

“Hedging for 2016 isn’t a panacea for these companies,” he said. “Without an improvement in price, they run out of time.”

Energy producers have been able to forestall many effects of oil’s downturn in part because investors still wanted to put money into the industry, because many banks were forecasting that oil prices would rebound in the second half of 2015. During the first half of the year, 57 energy companies issued $21 billion in new equity, and 58 more issued $73 billion in new debt, according to Moody’s.

That now looks unlikely and easy access to capital is ending, said Lloyd Byrne, an energy analyst at Nomura Group, a financial services company. Recent offerings haven't been well received, debt is no longer low-cost and share prices are languishing.

In the past two weeks several smaller companies have filed for bankruptcy protection, including Sabine Oil & Gas Corp. and Milagro Oil & Gas Inc., both based in Houston.

In another sign of stress,  Chesapeake Energy Corp.  said last week it would eliminate its annual shareholder dividend. The U.S. shale driller said the move will save it $240 million in payouts that it can plow back into capital spending to help it survive 2016.

Morgan Stanley warned recently that the current downturn could be even worse than the one that crippled the industry in 1980s. If Saudi Arabia and Iraq keep running full tilt and Libya and Iran get their oil production back on track, crude prices could languish below $60 for the next three years, said Martijn Rats, an analyst.

“On current trajectory, this downturn could become worse than 1986,” he said.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on October 30, 2015, 08:40:40 PM
US oil companies own the Republicans. If they get The White House back you might be right.

But if not.........
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Kursk on October 30, 2015, 08:53:14 PM
They own them all. One side is just better at hiding it.
 
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Kursk on October 30, 2015, 08:57:24 PM
http://www.wsj.com/articles/democrats-increasingly-backing-oil-and-gas-industry-1407790617 (http://www.wsj.com/articles/democrats-increasingly-backing-oil-and-gas-industry-1407790617)

Quote

Democrats Increasingly Backing Oil and Gas Industry

When House Republicans took up a measure to speed the government's reviews of applications to export natural gas, a move long sought by energy companies, the unexpected happened: The bill won "yes" votes from 47 Democrats.

The bill's sponsor, Rep.  Cory Gardner (R., Colo.), anticipated some Democratic backing, but not that much. Rep.  Steve Israel of New York, who leads the Democrats' House campaign arm, was a yes, as was House Minority Whip  Steny Hoyer of Maryland. Both voted in 2012 to restrict oil and gas exports.

The energy boom is shaping a new kind of Democrat in national politics, lawmakers who are giving greater support to the oil and gas industry even at the risk of alienating environmental groups, a core of the party's base. The trend comes as oil-and-gas production moves beyond America's traditionally energy-rich states, a development that also is increasing U.S. geopolitical influence abroad.

 

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"It's a huge business opportunity for the country," said Rep.  John Delaney (D., Md.), who was among 17 first-term lawmakers who voted yes on Mr. Gardner's bill. It passed the House and now awaits action in the Senate.

Mr. Delaney, whose district extends from the Washington-area suburbs to the West Virginia border, opposes a moratorium Maryland has placed on fracking. "I think that has really hurt the western part of my district."

"When four or five states were responsible for the vast majority of oil and gas production, it was easy to say this is a Republican issue, because most of those states happened to be Republican states," said  Kevin Book, managing director at the Washington, D.C.-based consulting firm ClearView Energy Partners. "But now that oil and gas production is spreading through unconventional technologies, there's many more states."

It is a theme playing out ahead of November's midterm elections, with some Democrats trying to balance environmental groups' concerns about climate change and an industry they see as carrying economic benefits.

This tension recently flared in Colorado, where Democrats have been at odds over measures restricting fracking, a process that has unlocked vast supplies of oil and natural gas from rocks deep underground.

 

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In response to concerns about potential groundwater pollution and drilling close to homes, Rep.  Jared Polis, a liberal Democrat, had been pushing for a ballot initiative to limit fracking. His move drew opposition from Gov.  John Hickenlooper and Sen.  Mark Udall, Democrats in tight re-election races in Colorado. Party leaders feared the measures would allow the GOP to cast Democrats as anti-industry. Mr. Polis retreated last week after the governor agreed to set up a commission to address the issue.

Some Republicans are skeptical of the Democratic Party's growing support and note many Democrats want more regulations. At the same time, GOP leaders say the phenomenon has moved beyond rhetoric. Rep.  Kevin McCarthy (R., Calif.), the new House Majority Leader, said in a recent interview he has noticed Democrats being more supportive of the energy boom, "because they see their economy grow by it."

 
 
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Mike McKenna, president of conservative lobbying firm MWR Strategies, which has close ties to GOP congressional leadership, said "it's a genuine shift and an important one." Among the drivers, he said, is the local tax revenue that comes from related economic growth.

Since March 2008, oil production has increased 58% and natural-gas output has risen 21%, making the U.S. the world's largest producer of both fuels, according to federal and international agency statistics. Jobs directly related to oil and gas production have nearly doubled in the past 10 years to 697,600, government data shows.

Support is strongest in states that reap the most from new production and the development export terminals for liquefied natural gas in places like Maryland and Oregon. Fracking is poised to start or already has in swing states including Ohio, North Carolina and Nevada.

Energy trade groups have taken notice. The American Petroleum Institute, the industry's main lobby group, hired  Louis Finkel, a former Democratic congressional adviser, as its No. 2 executive in May. America's Natural Gas Alliance hired  Marty Durbin, a former Democratic aide and nephew to Senate Majority Whip Dick Durbin (D., Ill.), as its chief executive in March 2013.

 

  Sen. Bob Casey (D, Pa.)  ENLARGE   
Sen. Bob Casey (D, Pa.)   Bloomberg News 
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Democrats in new oil and gas states, including Sens.  Bob Casey of Pennsylvania and  Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota, are bullish on the boom, while supporting regulations that they portray as robust but not onerous, to safeguard water supplies and reduce air pollution.

In Pennsylvania, where natural-gas production has increased 17-fold since 2008, Mr. Casey has become more vocal recently about the economic benefits. A few years ago, he was pushing for legislation to require disclosure of the chemicals used in fracking. That is no longer a top focus. In congressional testimony this year, he talked up the importance of fracking to his state's manufacturing sector.

The environmental influence in the Democratic Party remains strong. One of the party's newest big-money donors is  Tom Steyer, a former hedge-fund manager who is committing millions to support lawmakers who want to take action on climate change.

Bill McKibben, founder of 350.org, a group that helped rally opposition to the Keystone XL pipeline, say Democrats are talking more about the need to address climate change but that the talk isn't translating into action.

"I think many of them are either bought off by fossil-fuel donations or don't understand the science and so imagine they can have it all ways," Mr. McKibben said. Environmentalists are organizing what they are billing as the biggest climate-change march in history, scheduled for Sept. 21 in New York.

Sen.  Sheldon Whitehouse (D., R.I.), who has given more than 70 floor speeches urging action on climate change since April 2012, said he wants stricter regulations on methane, a greenhouse gas that can be emitted during the production and transmission of natural gas. But even he praises the boom's economic benefits. "I'm willing to defer cracking down on natural gas, because the economic benefits to the nation have been so great," he said in an interview.

In Colorado, where oil production has more than doubled since 2008, Mr. Udall has raised nearly $250,000 this election season from oil and gas companies. He also boasts a 97% lifetime voting record from the League of Conservation Voters. "Energy jobs are an important part of our economic growth in Colorado in the last six years," said Mr. Udall, who is also pushing alongside his challenger, Mr. Gardner, to expand natural-gas exports.

Kelly Giddens, campaign manager for the Citizens for a Healthy Fort Collins, a Colorado-based environmental group, doesn't like Mr. Udall's push for natural-gas exports but also doesn't want a Republican to take his seat. As for voting for Mr. Udall this November, she said, "It's going to be a giant hold-your-nose-and-vote thing. But I will."
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on October 30, 2015, 08:58:32 PM
They own them all. One side is just better at hiding it.

If that were true, oil would still be over $100 a barrel.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Kursk on October 30, 2015, 09:15:14 PM
Oh, for sure, Obama is in the way. I am not denying that. The oil companies cant instantaneously get their way. However, even though they  cant get their own way all of the time, ultimately, they will prevail. The key point is that the US will not defeat Russia by means of an economic war.  Also, when the price inevitably rises then Russia will be in a stronger position. As a supplier of Energy they would then be in a position to exact some revenge on those that went against them i.e. Europe. Eventually the US will be left alone as people will not be prepared to suffer to maintain US hegemony. Like I said, Russia is a much more natural ally for Europe in these troubling times which is why I don't understand this slavish adherence to the American cause.


Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on October 30, 2015, 10:46:37 PM
Do I have this right?

You are a Sinn Fein supporter, who wants both us and Briton out of the EU, you want the USA isolated, and you want us all to worship Putin?

Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Kursk on October 30, 2015, 11:17:34 PM
Do I have this right?

You are a Sinn Fein supporter, who wants both us and Briton out of the EU, you want the USA isolated, and you want us all to worship Putin?

I don't care about Sinn Fein or their policies except that they align with my interests in getting Ireland out of the EU. It has been a disaster. I don't think Ireland can go it alone if Britain does not leave Europe so that is why I support the Brexit.

As for US isolation, is it not clear that US hegemony has been a disaster for the middle east and Europe ? Have you forgotten 7/7 and Madrid ? There are 1.5 million refugees heading to Germany with 4million more to follow. The US is outsourcing the consequences of their actions to Europe. Surely this much is obvious by now.

I don't expect people to hero whorship Putin or Russia. I have already said they are re not exactly likeable. However, being liked is worth nothing. Being feared and respected counts for a lot more. I think , in the long term, European interests would be better served by aligning with Russia. 
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Itchy on October 30, 2015, 11:37:50 PM
Well lads, I've a clean out done and have bags of kids clothes in good condition. Anyone know if there is anyone collecting clothes for the refugee crisis?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Kursk on October 30, 2015, 11:46:04 PM
Well lads, I've a clean out done and have bags of kids clothes in good condition. Anyone know if there is anyone collecting clothes for the refugee crisis?

do the clothes have a red cross on them ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5vzUBpwwZg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5vzUBpwwZg)
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Itchy on October 30, 2015, 11:55:04 PM
Well lads, I've a clean out done and have bags of kids clothes in good condition. Anyone know if there is anyone collecting clothes for the refugee crisis?

do the clothes have a red cross on them ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5vzUBpwwZg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5vzUBpwwZg)

Anyone with anything constructive to say please reply, others don't bother.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Kursk on October 31, 2015, 12:10:56 AM
ok, sorry, I was being a bit too cynical.

I don't agree with the politics of the whole situation but I suppose we should never forget the human aspect.

you can try these folks

http://humanappeal.ie/media/blog/clothes-from-irish-appeal-on-the-way-to-syria-part-1/#.VjQGWKR0z4g (http://humanappeal.ie/media/blog/clothes-from-irish-appeal-on-the-way-to-syria-part-1/#.VjQGWKR0z4g)

and these

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/limerick-to-calais-group-appeals-for-clothes-for-syrian-refugees-694820.html (http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/limerick-to-calais-group-appeals-for-clothes-for-syrian-refugees-694820.html)
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: stew on October 31, 2015, 01:00:23 AM
Do I have this right?

You are a Sinn Fein supporter, who wants both us and Briton out of the EU, you want the USA isolated, and you want us all to worship Putin?

Bang on muppet.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Kursk on October 31, 2015, 01:15:14 AM
Do I have this right?

You are a Sinn Fein supporter, who wants both us and Briton out of the EU, you want the USA isolated, and you want us all to worship Putin?

Bang on muppet.

Christ, another liberal bed wetter  ::) The reason the US is banjaxed is because of wekness like this.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on October 31, 2015, 07:32:32 AM
Do I have this right?

You are a Sinn Fein supporter, who wants both us and Briton out of the EU, you want the USA isolated, and you want us all to worship Putin?

Bang on muppet.

Christ, another liberal bed wetter  ::) The reason the US is banjaxed is because of wekness like this.

I have also noticed your constant theme of anti political correctness.

Most of us give out about it, even if we subconsciously like some of it, but for you it is worthy of revolution. You want to restore religion and 'family values' by taking Ireland out of the EU and sending us back to the 1970s. If you add in your obvious hatred for the USA, it is incomprehensible the damage that would be done to our economy if anyone listened to you.

I had thought originally you were another Shinner bot (where have they all gone?), but I was wrong, they all follow the party message at all times. Views such as yours are not represented by any party.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Kursk on October 31, 2015, 07:03:16 PM
Do I have this right?

You are a Sinn Fein supporter, who wants both us and Briton out of the EU, you want the USA isolated, and you want us all to worship Putin?

Bang on muppet.

Christ, another liberal bed wetter  ::) The reason the US is banjaxed is because of wekness like this.

I have also noticed your constant theme of anti political correctness.

Most of us give out about it, even if we subconsciously like some of it, but for you it is worthy of revolution. You want to restore religion and 'family values' by taking Ireland out of the EU and sending us back to the 1970s. If you add in your obvious hatred for the USA, it is incomprehensible the damage that would be done to our economy if anyone listened to you.

I had thought originally you were another Shinner bot (where have they all gone?), but I was wrong, they all follow the party message at all times. Views such as yours are not represented by any party.

revolution  :o

Its the opposite. Its the scale of rapid economic and social change being imposed by unelected entities that I have a problem with.

Apparently I (and you and everybody else) owe $60000 each, the second highest debt burden in the world. Thanks EU !
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Rossfan on October 31, 2015, 09:12:04 PM
Thanks Bertie, McCreevy, Barney, Cowen, Lenihan ya mean!
Right wing  neo liberalism got us into the mess.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Kursk on October 31, 2015, 09:36:53 PM
Thanks Bertie, McCreevy, Barney, Cowen, Lenihan ya mean!
Right wing  neo liberalism got us into the mess.

and what do you think the EU is but a neo-liberal project ? Even their own EU funded research says so  ;D

http://www.forschungsnetzwerk.at/downloadpub/neoliberalism_eu_SR%2003-07.pdf (http://www.forschungsnetzwerk.at/downloadpub/neoliberalism_eu_SR%2003-07.pdf)
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: DrinkingHarp on November 01, 2015, 12:02:38 AM
Let me start by saying the EU/US should be assisting in placing refugees in their respected countries, but when refugees refuse accommodations based on unreasonably expectations, its time to boot them. Sweden in this example below are averaging 10,000 refugees a week and had to borrow more money to help with assisting the refugees. It's mind boggling on how people (refugees) in horrible circumstances can refuse or not be satisfied with aid being provided to them.

 http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/29/refugees-refusing-leave-bus-too-cold-sweden-removed

Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Itchy on November 01, 2015, 10:39:16 AM
Those 14 people should be deported, simple.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Kursk on November 01, 2015, 03:19:26 PM
Let me start by saying the EU/US should be assisting in placing refugees in their respected countries, but when refugees refuse accommodations based on unreasonably expectations, its time to boot them. Sweden in this example below are averaging 10,000 refugees a week and had to borrow more money to help with assisting the refugees. It's mind boggling on how people (refugees) in horrible circumstances can refuse or not be satisfied with aid being provided to them.

 http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/29/refugees-refusing-leave-bus-too-cold-sweden-removed

4000 over 4 or 5 years might be manageable but there are 8000 entering every day and the supposed winter slowdown is not happening. I expected the other 4 million next summer but it looks like they'll be here long before then. That's just the 4 million in Turkey/Lebanon etc. There are a further 8 million displaced internally. The total population is 28million and if , as it looks likely, Syria will simply cease to exist in the future they will all have to live somewhere.

That's just Syria, there are 60milion refugees world wide. A huge slice of that is within striking distance of Europe. Merkel has stated that "The rights to political asylum has no limits on the number of Asylum seekers" so this is the political will of Europe as it stands..and what Merkel wants is what you want.


And that's just the refugees. It does not even consider economic migrants.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on November 02, 2015, 03:36:08 PM
I am happy to share this refugee burden with Germany and the other EU countries, but I would like to see it done pro rata for the burden they shared with us doing our financial crisis.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: finbar o tool on November 02, 2015, 03:53:34 PM
http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=34645

Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 01:50:08 AM
I am happy to share this refugee burden with Germany and the other EU countries, but I would like to see it done pro rata for the burden they shared with us doing our financial crisis.

There should be no refugee burden as there should be no refugees allowed in. It's not our problem. Let the US sort it. They created the mess.
Sending aid ok but this human trafficking is unsustainable.

How do you plan to integrate this number of people into a society that it actually hates.
What damage are you bringing to the future generations livelihoods? It's all well and good with your PC intentions but to be frank you're focking up the future for those coming behind. What sort of shitholes will there be in 50 years time.

If you've ever been to Birmingham or Luton....
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 03, 2015, 05:11:42 AM
Play the "PC brigade" drinking game. Take a shot every time some Tory gives out about the "PC brigade" insisting on treating their fellow human beings with a bit of dignity.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Kursk on November 03, 2015, 09:56:10 AM
Play the "PC brigade" drinking game. Take a shot every time some Tory gives out about the "PC brigade" insisting on treating their fellow human beings with a bit of dignity.

He has a point. What would your plan be Eamonn ? Its easy to be blasé out there in California.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 09:58:57 AM
I am happy to share this refugee burden with Germany and the other EU countries, but I would like to see it done pro rata for the burden they shared with us doing our financial crisis.

There should be no refugee burden as there should be no refugees allowed in. It's not our problem. Let the US sort it. They created the mess.
Sending aid ok but this human trafficking is unsustainable.

How do you plan to integrate this number of people into a society that it actually hates.
What damage are you bringing to the future generations livelihoods? It's all well and good with your PC intentions but to be frank you're focking up the future for those coming behind. What sort of shitholes will there be in 50 years time.

If you've ever been to Birmingham or Luton....
Who hates what society?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on November 03, 2015, 10:26:49 AM
I am happy to share this refugee burden with Germany and the other EU countries, but I would like to see it done pro rata for the burden they shared with us doing our financial crisis.

There should be no refugee burden as there should be no refugees allowed in. It's not our problem. Let the US sort it. They created the mess.
Sending aid ok but this human trafficking is unsustainable.

How do you plan to integrate this number of people into a society that it actually hates.
What damage are you bringing to the future generations livelihoods? It's all well and good with your PC intentions but to be frank you're focking up the future for those coming behind. What sort of shitholes will there be in 50 years time.

If you've ever been to Birmingham or Luton....
Who hates what society?

"they" do  ::)
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Kursk on November 03, 2015, 10:33:26 AM
A better argument is to pick a number. 4000 over , say 4-5 years. fine, that seems reasonable.

but now lets say 100,000. Can we handle it ? What is the cost ? What are the long term implications for social cohesion ?

then take a hypothetical 500, 000. Assess the impact of that.

then 1,000,000 etc

Do you have a limit..should there be a limit ? Its not stated anywhere. I cant see it anywhere in the 1951 agreement or the Dublin agreement.

The problem is they didn't account for ALL the refugees wanting to go to a limited set of countries.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on November 03, 2015, 11:36:34 AM
A better argument is to pick a number. 4000 over , say 4-5 years. fine, that seems reasonable.

but now lets say 100,000. Can we handle it ? What is the cost ? What are the long term implications for social cohesion ?

then take a hypothetical 500, 000. Assess the impact of that.

then 1,000,000 etc

Do you have a limit..should there be a limit ? Its not stated anywhere. I cant see it anywhere in the 1951 agreement or the Dublin agreement.

The problem is they didn't account for ALL the refugees wanting to go to a limited set of countries.

What exactly were these religious values you were proposing a few days ago?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: AZOffaly on November 03, 2015, 11:37:50 AM
Lads, if everyone from the middle east moves to Europe, could we move to the Middle East? Grand weather like.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on November 03, 2015, 11:42:37 AM
Lads, if everyone from the middle east moves to Europe, could we move to the Middle East? Grand weather like.

Not looking too grand in a few decades though: http://beta.on.aol.com/video/middle-east-projected-to-be-too-hot-by-2100-519190836?context=PC:homepage:PL5498:1439713280513 (http://beta.on.aol.com/video/middle-east-projected-to-be-too-hot-by-2100-519190836?context=PC:homepage:PL5498:1439713280513)
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Kursk on November 03, 2015, 12:08:41 PM
A better argument is to pick a number. 4000 over , say 4-5 years. fine, that seems reasonable.

but now lets say 100,000. Can we handle it ? What is the cost ? What are the long term implications for social cohesion ?

then take a hypothetical 500, 000. Assess the impact of that.

then 1,000,000 etc

Do you have a limit..should there be a limit ? Its not stated anywhere. I cant see it anywhere in the 1951 agreement or the Dublin agreement.

The problem is they didn't account for ALL the refugees wanting to go to a limited set of countries.

What exactly were these religious values you were proposing a few days ago?

I know your ego is hurt after I showed him up on the Sinai crash thread and now you want a personalized tit-for-tat exchange that will go on for pages and pages. You keep doing this Muppet ::). How many people have you tangled with at this stage ...?

As for family values,  lets start with treating girls and boys the same and not wanting to depcapitate other families of a different religious persuasion. That sounds like a reasonable place to start.

Now, how many refugees should Ireland take. Put a number on it and defend your position.

I think 4000 is enough. the gates should be shut now.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on November 03, 2015, 12:21:34 PM
A better argument is to pick a number. 4000 over , say 4-5 years. fine, that seems reasonable.

but now lets say 100,000. Can we handle it ? What is the cost ? What are the long term implications for social cohesion ?

then take a hypothetical 500, 000. Assess the impact of that.

then 1,000,000 etc

Do you have a limit..should there be a limit ? Its not stated anywhere. I cant see it anywhere in the 1951 agreement or the Dublin agreement.

The problem is they didn't account for ALL the refugees wanting to go to a limited set of countries.

What exactly were these religious values you were proposing a few days ago?

I know your ego is hurt after I showed him up on the Sinai crash thread and now you want a personalized tit-for-tat exchange that will go on for pages and pages. You keep doing this Muppet ::). How many people have you tangled with at this stage ...?

As for family values,  lets start with treating girls and boys the same and not wanting to depcapitate other families of a different religious persuasion. That sounds like a reasonable place to start.

Now, how many refugees should Ireland take. Put a number on it and defend your position.

I think 4000 is enough. the gates should be shut now.

You signed up on the 23rd October 2015. Newbie my arse.

As for the Sinai crash thread, explain in detail how this works: 'I know your ego is hurt after I showed him up' (who is 'him'?) on the 'Sinai crash thread'. What did you show up?

Also what is this tit-for-tat? You have abused everything from the 'PC Brigade' - which seems to be everyone other than yourself and Vlad - to the US and the EU, but you get all jumpy when anyone traps you in your own hypocrisy. Then you call it tit-for-tat.

I asked you a reasonable question, but you threw the toys out of the pram and go all ad hominem. Yet again.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Kursk on November 03, 2015, 12:36:28 PM
A better argument is to pick a number. 4000 over , say 4-5 years. fine, that seems reasonable.

but now lets say 100,000. Can we handle it ? What is the cost ? What are the long term implications for social cohesion ?

then take a hypothetical 500, 000. Assess the impact of that.

then 1,000,000 etc

Do you have a limit..should there be a limit ? Its not stated anywhere. I cant see it anywhere in the 1951 agreement or the Dublin agreement.

The problem is they didn't account for ALL the refugees wanting to go to a limited set of countries.

What exactly were these religious values you were proposing a few days ago?

I know your ego is hurt after I showed him up on the Sinai crash thread and now you want a personalized tit-for-tat exchange that will go on for pages and pages. You keep doing this Muppet ::). How many people have you tangled with at this stage ...?

As for family values,  lets start with treating girls and boys the same and not wanting to depcapitate other families of a different religious persuasion. That sounds like a reasonable place to start.

Now, how many refugees should Ireland take. Put a number on it and defend your position.

I think 4000 is enough. the gates should be shut now.

You signed up on the 23rd October 2015. Newbie my arse.

As for the Sinai crash thread, explain in detail how this works: 'I know your ego is hurt after I showed him up' (who is 'him'?) on the 'Sinai crash thread'. What did you show up?

Also what is this tit-for-tat? You have abused everything from the 'PC Brigade' - which seems to be everyone other than yourself and Vlad - to the US and the EU, but you get all jumpy when anyone traps you in your own hypocrisy. Then you call it tit-for-tat.

I asked you a reasonable question, but you threw the toys out of the pram and go all ad hominem. Yet again.

you do have a thread history you know  ::). Its not hard to figure out that you are super sensitive to any disagreement and always want the last word.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on November 03, 2015, 12:42:11 PM
you do have a thread history you know  ::). Its not hard to figure out that you are super sensitive to any disagreement and always want the last word.

This always amuses me as it is takes two to tango.

When one of the tangoers (is that a word?) accuses the other of always dancing, well...... it just looks daft.

But dear God it didn't take you long to be reduced to the ad hominem such as: 'you always want the last word' or 'you think you are are an expert' or 'why do you always have to be right', you know there is nothing there to back anything they say up.

Most people a little bit longer.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Kursk on November 03, 2015, 12:46:23 PM
ok Muppet, you are right.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Kursk on November 03, 2015, 12:53:43 PM
Interesting times ahead. It is not hard to imagine a theocratic state evolve in Turkey, a Sunni version of Iran. Turkey may move from an importer of refugees to become a net exporter of refugees.

http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2015/11/03/did-turks-vote-to-become-an-islamic-state.html
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: muppet on November 03, 2015, 01:16:04 PM
ok Muppet, you are right.

When you arrived it seemed you had something different to say, which was interesting. You seemed to be advocating that we should be more willing to ally ourselves with the East rather than the West. Some people probed this notion to see what was behind it all but unfortunately to date you haven't articulated enough to suggest there is anything behind the idea. Blaming the 'PC Brigade' for all evils is a rather flimsy basis for revolution. Bad as the PC Brigade were, they have had their benefits, unless you think, just for example, that slavery, racism and misogyny weren't all that bad.

I was hoping you would develop your arguments, which i would have enjoyed. I learn about as much from the smarter posters on here as I do from anywhere else. In that regard this can be a great site. Just because we don't all agree on some issues doesn't mean we still aren't influenced by those making the arguments we disagree with.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Kursk on November 03, 2015, 02:47:53 PM
I'm not convinced that anyone is making an argument "for" anything on here. This board, in so far as I can see, contains heavy anti-US and anti-EU sentiment yet any suggestion of changing the status quo is not discussed or is actively derided. This is not unique to here of course. I see this on other boards and in the media.

That is the fundamental dynamic in the west. Not only do people not seemed to defend their way of life and the actions of their government they seem to love attacking it...! I understand the need to self-criticism but it has gone to far imo. In Europe It is now a fatal weakness.

I keep hearing about the cost of leaving the EU...is that cost offset by the debt we've been landed in and the loss of political freedom ? The cost of the second part is hard to quantify but it feels huge at this point in time.

But, since this thread is about refugees, the subject should be limited to that.

My position is 4000 over 4 to 5 years is enough. It would seem to me that since (afaik) the protocols and agreements have not specified any numbers we cannot be deemed to have broken any agreements by setting a number ourself.


Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 03:10:51 PM
I'm not convinced that anyone is making an argument "for" anything on here. This board, in so far as I can see, contains heavy anti-US and anti-EU sentiment yet any suggestion of changing the status quo is not discussed or is actively derided. This is not unique to here of course. I see this on other boards and in the media.

That is the fundamental dynamic in the west. Not only do people not seemed to defend their way of life and the actions of their government they seem to love attacking it...! I understand the need to self-criticism but it has gone to far imo. In Europe It is now a fatal weakness.

I keep hearing about the cost of leaving the EU...is that cost offset by the debt we've been landed in and the loss of political freedom ? The cost of the second part is hard to quantify but it feels huge at this point in time.

But, since this thread is about refugees, the subject should be limited to that.

My position is 4000 over 4 to 5 years is enough. It would seem to me that since (afaik) the protocols and agreements have not specified any numbers we cannot be deemed to have broken any agreements by setting a number ourself.

Whatever number comes into Endas head at the time will be announced then corrected by how many Angela wants Ireland to take in.
So 5000 will become 50000 when all families etc are brought in. And that's just for starters.

Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Kursk on November 03, 2015, 03:41:29 PM
To be fair, since there does not appear to be any number specified in any agreement anywhere, Merkel is probably , in her mind, sticking strictly to the "spirit" of the 1951 agreement (I haven't read the 1967 update). She is , however, unilaterally suspending the Dublin agreement by inviting them straight to Germany.

What people don't seem to understand, or don't care, is that once refugees are in a "country" , at least by my interpretation of what I have read, they are free to move anywhere within that "country". Germany may be Nirvana for now. That could change very quickly. Where do they go after that ? Protesting to Germany later on that "you invited them in" will be worthless.

So this idea that we have a say in any "allocation" process will be meaningless. The refugees themselves will make that decision, backed by International law.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 03:54:51 PM
To be fair, since there does not appear to be any number specified in any agreement anywhere, Merkel is probably , in her mind, sticking strictly to the "spirit" of the 1951 agreement (I haven't read the 1967 update). She is , however, unilaterally suspending the Dublin agreement by inviting them straight to Germany.

What people don't seem to understand, or don't care, is that once refugees are in a "country" , at least by my interpretation of what I have read, they are free to move anywhere within that "country". Germany may be Nirvana for now. That could change very quickly. Where do they go after that ? Protesting to Germany later on that "you invited them in" will be worthless.

So this idea that we have a say in any "allocation" process will be meaningless. The refugees themselves will make that decision, backed by International law.

Exactly - what's to stop 2 million refugees from deciding that Ireland would become New Syria or New Nigeria if given EU passports? You can't stop anyone from wanting to move within the zone once in.

A quick Ryanair flight, get down the dole office and bingo!


Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 03, 2015, 07:30:13 PM
Play the "PC brigade" drinking game. Take a shot every time some Tory gives out about the "PC brigade" insisting on treating their fellow human beings with a bit of dignity.

He has a point. What would your plan be Eamonn ? Its easy to be blasé out there in California.

We have immigrants in California too. I'm one if them. Aside from a bit of bluster from right wing politicians, America does a reasonable job of assimilating people from diverse backgrounds. A much better job than a lot of European countries. Occasionally America gets something right.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 07:47:19 PM
Play the "PC brigade" drinking game. Take a shot every time some Tory gives out about the "PC brigade" insisting on treating their fellow human beings with a bit of dignity.

He has a point. What would your plan be Eamonn ? Its easy to be blasé out there in California.

We have immigrants in California too. I'm one if them. Aside from a bit of bluster from right wing politicians, America does a reasonable job of assimilating people from diverse backgrounds. A much better job than a lot of European countries. Occasionally America gets something right.

Did you go to Oakland yet? ;)
You can tell me what an awesome integration job they've done after your visit..if you make it back alive.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Rossfan on November 03, 2015, 07:48:33 PM


He has a point. What would your plan be Eamonn ? Its easy to be blasé out there in California.

We have immigrants in California too. I'm one if them. Aside from a bit of bluster from right wing politicians, America does a reasonable job of assimilating people from diverse backgrounds. A much better job than a lot of European countries. Occasionally America gets something right.
If only ye'd respect the Natives and give them their land back........
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: LeoMc on November 04, 2015, 08:39:59 AM
To be fair, since there does not appear to be any number specified in any agreement anywhere, Merkel is probably , in her mind, sticking strictly to the "spirit" of the 1951 agreement (I haven't read the 1967 update). She is , however, unilaterally suspending the Dublin agreement by inviting them straight to Germany.

What people don't seem to understand, or don't care, is that once refugees are in a "country" , at least by my interpretation of what I have read, they are free to move anywhere within that "country". Germany may be Nirvana for now. That could change very quickly. Where do they go after that ? Protesting to Germany later on that "you invited them in" will be worthless.

So this idea that we have a say in any "allocation" process will be meaningless. The refugees themselves will make that decision, backed by International law.

It will be interesting to see how the Tories get on in their re-negotiations. One stance they were looking at regarding free movement was that it entitled you to move to a job not to move to look for one. Not sure how that would be taken by the English on welfare in Ireland, Germany & Spain though.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: AZOffaly on November 04, 2015, 09:41:58 AM
Play the "PC brigade" drinking game. Take a shot every time some Tory gives out about the "PC brigade" insisting on treating their fellow human beings with a bit of dignity.

He has a point. What would your plan be Eamonn ? Its easy to be blasé out there in California.

We have immigrants in California too. I'm one if them. Aside from a bit of bluster from right wing politicians, America does a reasonable job of assimilating people from diverse backgrounds. A much better job than a lot of European countries. Occasionally America gets something right.

Eamonn I'm not sure about that at all. In Arizona, immigration from Mexico is a huge problem, and they have never dealt with it properly. And as for assimilation, I think the ghettoisation of Mexican immigrants in cities like Phoenix and LA, and Cuban immigrants in Miami, is a big problem. Granted, a lad that moves to the US for a job is assimilated very quickly, the US process does seem to be blind to colour and creed as long as the red tape is in order.

It's a great country, but I'm not sure I'd say they have immigration sorted out completely.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 04, 2015, 11:43:12 PM
Play the "PC brigade" drinking game. Take a shot every time some Tory gives out about the "PC brigade" insisting on treating their fellow human beings with a bit of dignity.

He has a point. What would your plan be Eamonn ? Its easy to be blasé out there in California.

We have immigrants in California too. I'm one if them. Aside from a bit of bluster from right wing politicians, America does a reasonable job of assimilating people from diverse backgrounds. A much better job than a lot of European countries. Occasionally America gets something right.

Did you go to Oakland yet? ;)
You can tell me what an awesome integration job they've done after your visit..if you make it back alive.

I've been to Oakland many times. What of it?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on November 05, 2015, 12:13:27 AM
Play the "PC brigade" drinking game. Take a shot every time some Tory gives out about the "PC brigade" insisting on treating their fellow human beings with a bit of dignity.

He has a point. What would your plan be Eamonn ? Its easy to be blasé out there in California.

We have immigrants in California too. I'm one if them. Aside from a bit of bluster from right wing politicians, America does a reasonable job of assimilating people from diverse backgrounds. A much better job than a lot of European countries. Occasionally America gets something right.

Did you go to Oakland yet? ;)
You can tell me what an awesome integration job they've done after your visit..if you make it back alive.

I've been to Oakland many times. What of it?

Obviously your memory is failing you when I asked you where did you go in Oakland last time around...very selective.

I bet it wasn't in any minority neighbourhood ;)

just to remind you of when you wouldn't tell me where you went in oakland...

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=25757.435
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 05, 2015, 12:16:18 AM
This thread is about refugees. Which refugee neighbourhood or immigrant neighbourhood would you like me to visit in Oakland?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on November 05, 2015, 03:00:08 AM
This thread is about refugees. Which refugee neighbourhood or immigrant neighbourhood would you like me to visit in Oakland?

Re-read the thread. I gave you enough instructions. Don't forget your make-up to get the authentic experience.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 05, 2015, 03:54:06 AM
Humour me. I've visited Oakland many's a time, I know plenty of people who live there. If there's a point you'd like to make then please make it. Don't tell me to go off like a detective in search of whatever rubbish you've posted before.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on November 07, 2015, 07:45:05 PM
Humour me. I've visited Oakland many's a time, I know plenty of people who live there. If there's a point you'd like to make then please make it. Don't tell me to go off like a detective in search of whatever rubbish you've posted before.

Ha....as I said you've a bad memory...
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on November 07, 2015, 07:55:46 PM
I am happy to share this refugee burden with Germany and the other EU countries, but I would like to see it done pro rata for the burden they shared with us doing our financial crisis.

There should be no refugee burden as there should be no refugees allowed in. It's not our problem. Let the US sort it. They created the mess.
Sending aid ok but this human trafficking is unsustainable.

How do you plan to integrate this number of people into a society that it actually hates.
What damage are you bringing to the future generations livelihoods? It's all well and good with your PC intentions but to be frank you're focking up the future for those coming behind. What sort of shitholes will there be in 50 years time.

If you've ever been to Birmingham or Luton....
Who hates what society?

"they" do  ::)

Maybe you need to open your eyes and read whats actually happening. I see Germany is closing its borders again. Too late to get rid of the ones who got in i'd say. What a pity.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: armaghniac on November 08, 2015, 08:01:05 AM
We have immigrants in California too. I'm one if them. Aside from a bit of bluster from right wing politicians, America does a reasonable job of assimilating people from diverse backgrounds. A much better job than a lot of European countries. Occasionally America gets something right.

California is a place where illegal immigrants came from the East, took over the place and drove out the Mexican government, and which then welcomed all manners of other people while excluding the Mexicans, except for the odd few needed to water the garden and clean the jacks. Let's hope things work out better in Germany.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Esmarelda on November 08, 2015, 12:05:34 PM
I am happy to share this refugee burden with Germany and the other EU countries, but I would like to see it done pro rata for the burden they shared with us doing our financial crisis.

There should be no refugee burden as there should be no refugees allowed in. It's not our problem. Let the US sort it. They created the mess.
Sending aid ok but this human trafficking is unsustainable.

How do you plan to integrate this number of people into a society that it actually hates.
What damage are you bringing to the future generations livelihoods? It's all well and good with your PC intentions but to be frank you're focking up the future for those coming behind. What sort of shitholes will there be in 50 years time.

If you've ever been to Birmingham or Luton....
Who hates what society?

"they" do  ::)

Maybe you need to open your eyes and read whats actually happening. I see Germany is closing its borders again. Too late to get rid of the ones who got in i'd say. What a pity.
Again, who hates what society?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: seafoid on November 08, 2015, 09:03:04 PM
Germany has a real problem with funding pensions and it's going to get worse over time. Refugees who will work will increase the proportion of workers funding pensions and modify the rate of increase.

 
http://www.howtogermany.com/pages/german-retirement.html

Participation is mandatory for employees, with each worker assessed for a sum based on annual earnings. Premiums are deducted by the employer, with the employee paying half and the employer half. In 2015 the premium is 18.7 percent of the gross monthly wage or salary. This is assessed on monthly incomes up to a maximum of 6,050 euros (72,600 euros a year) in the west and 5,200 euros (62,400 euros a year) in the east. Retirement now normally begins at age 65, though it is to be gradually increased to 67. Contributions to the plan are also to be increased, and maximum pensions eventually reduced from 70% to 67% of net pay. English language information about the German Public Retirement System can be found at www.deutsche-rentenversicherung.de.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: armaghniac on November 08, 2015, 11:46:44 PM
Germany can benefit from more young workers to pay pensions. But just as California needs rain, but got mudslides, Germany needs a steady flow of employable people; what it has is deluge of people many of whom are not employable and others who will not thrive in the saturated market for illiterate Arabic monoglots.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Nihilist on November 19, 2015, 10:17:58 AM
On the issue of refugees and people trying to cross from Syria and other locations to avoid war. Personally I can't blame the for trying to get away from that situation to survive but there is no way that it can continue at the pace it already exists at. And it needs to be controlled and monitored even more so now with militant groups using it as a possible way to infiltrate into and carry out strikes on the West.

I can only see one solution.

EU get together (with or without China, US and Russia (but ideally with)) and go into Syria and annex part of it on the border with Turkey. Make this a temporary safe haven for refugees and setup proper military protected camps and dramatically limit the amount of refugees crossing the borders.




Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: StGallsGAA on November 20, 2015, 12:11:22 AM
Why shouldn't refugees come and live in Germany or UK? All the Imperialist nations that raped the wealth of Asia and Africa need to start to give a little back.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: armaghniac on November 20, 2015, 12:41:36 AM
Why shouldn't refugees come and live in Germany or UK? All the Imperialist nations that raped the wealth of Asia and Africa need to start to give a little back.

Presumably then none should come to live in Poland or Latvia that were raped as well.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on January 05, 2016, 05:56:33 PM
A glimpse into the future of not putting in the right safeguards?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35237173

Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: seafoid on January 05, 2016, 06:22:58 PM
Germany can benefit from more young workers to pay pensions. But just as California needs rain, but got mudslides, Germany needs a steady flow of employable people; what it has is deluge of people many of whom are not employable and others who will not thrive in the saturated market for illiterate Arabic monoglots.
They can start in supermarkets and let their kids go into the professions.  Ozils Dad was no intellectual either. Germany has loads of WW2 trauma to work out. I bet that has something to do with the low birth rate.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: armaghniac on January 05, 2016, 06:37:01 PM
They can start in supermarkets and let their kids go into the professions.  [/quote]

Assuming of course that there are half a million jobs available in lifting boxes. There are too many, too quickly,

Quote
Germany has loads of WW2 trauma to work out. I bet that has something to do with the low birth rate.

I doubt it.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: seafoid on January 05, 2016, 06:45:21 PM
They can start in supermarkets and let their kids go into the professions. 

Assuming of course that there are half a million jobs available in lifting boxes. There are too many, too quickly,

Quote
Germany has loads of WW2 trauma to work out. I bet that has something to do with the low birth rate.

I doubt it.
[/quote]We had a doctor from Germany who said she could never work there because of all the repressed trauma.
WW2 is only 70 years ago.  The birth rate is not normal. Something is not right. Look at the fetish for a strong currency as well. 

Working class proportion is any modern economy is at least 50% so 500K is a drop in the ocean.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Mayo4Sam on January 06, 2016, 09:24:19 AM
I am happy to share this refugee burden with Germany and the other EU countries, but I would like to see it done pro rata for the burden they shared with us doing our financial crisis.

There should be no refugee burden as there should be no refugees allowed in. It's not our problem. Let the US sort it. They created the mess.
Sending aid ok but this human trafficking is unsustainable.

How do you plan to integrate this number of people into a society that it actually hates.
What damage are you bringing to the future generations livelihoods? It's all well and good with your PC intentions but to be frank you're focking up the future for those coming behind. What sort of shitholes will there be in 50 years time.

If you've ever been to Birmingham or Luton....
Who hates what society?

"they" do  ::)

Maybe you need to open your eyes and read whats actually happening. I see Germany is closing its borders again. Too late to get rid of the ones who got in i'd say. What a pity.
Fox commander, you seem to be a socialist when it suits you, judging by posts on other threads?
Is it an a la carte version you adhere to?
Because what you're talking about about would fall under a kind of totalitarian dictatorship political model and I'm quiet sure you don't want to pledge allegiance to Enda.

Just wondering
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: give her dixie on January 06, 2016, 09:34:36 AM
A sad start to the year as 34 refugees drown off the Turkish coast en route to the Greek island of Lesbos.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35239379
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Lecale2 on January 06, 2016, 10:12:25 AM
Problems in Germany on New Year's Eve only coming to light now.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35231046
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on January 06, 2016, 02:32:45 PM
Problems in Germany on New Year's Eve only coming to light now.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35231046

I posted something similar yesterday. Huge gangs roaming the streets will be replicated all over europe.
How is this integration project ever going to work?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Mayo4Sam on January 06, 2016, 03:00:34 PM
Problems in Germany on New Year's Eve only coming to light now.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35231046

I posted something similar yesterday. Huge gangs roaming the streets will be replicated all over europe.
How is this integration project ever going to work?

Any answer to my question above??
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on January 06, 2016, 04:01:08 PM
Maybe you need to open your eyes and read whats actually happening. I see Germany is closing its borders again. Too late to get rid of the ones who got in i'd say. What a pity.
Fox commander, you seem to be a socialist when it suits you, judging by posts on other threads?
Is it an a la carte version you adhere to?
Because what you're talking about about would fall under a kind of totalitarian dictatorship political model and I'm quiet sure you don't want to pledge allegiance to Enda.

Just wondering

Why does that actually matter? I commented on an event. You should just take it that I'm for or against certain things.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Mayo4Sam on January 06, 2016, 04:31:16 PM
Maybe you need to open your eyes and read whats actually happening. I see Germany is closing its borders again. Too late to get rid of the ones who got in i'd say. What a pity.
Fox commander, you seem to be a socialist when it suits you, judging by posts on other threads?
Is it an a la carte version you adhere to?
Because what you're talking about about would fall under a kind of totalitarian dictatorship political model and I'm quiet sure you don't want to pledge allegiance to Enda.

Just wondering

Why does that actually matter? I commented on an event. You should just take it that I'm for or against certain things.

Because you're flat out on the fine gael thread advocating one thing and here advocating a completely opposed view on a different topic.

Which suggests you have no real principles
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on January 06, 2016, 05:31:38 PM
Maybe you need to open your eyes and read whats actually happening. I see Germany is closing its borders again. Too late to get rid of the ones who got in i'd say. What a pity.
Fox commander, you seem to be a socialist when it suits you, judging by posts on other threads?
Is it an a la carte version you adhere to?
Because what you're talking about about would fall under a kind of totalitarian dictatorship political model and I'm quiet sure you don't want to pledge allegiance to Enda.

Just wondering

Why does that actually matter? I commented on an event. You should just take it that I'm for or against certain things.

Because you're flat out on the fine gael thread advocating one thing and here advocating a completely opposed view on a different topic.

Which suggests you have no real principles

Please provide examples of where I've contradicted myself. I look forward to this.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Mayo4Sam on January 06, 2016, 05:44:56 PM
"Fox commander, you seem to be a socialist when it suits you, judging by posts on other threads?
Is it an a la carte version you adhere to?
Because what you're talking about about would fall under a kind of totalitarian dictatorship political model and I'm quiet sure you don't want to pledge allegiance to Enda."

The above is a contradiction in principles
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on January 06, 2016, 06:27:16 PM
"Fox commander, you seem to be a socialist when it suits you, judging by posts on other threads?
Is it an a la carte version you adhere to?
Because what you're talking about about would fall under a kind of totalitarian dictatorship political model and I'm quiet sure you don't want to pledge allegiance to Enda."

The above is a contradiction in principles

Erm...you wrote that piece above. I'm still waiting for you to show me where I've contradicted myself in my comments.

Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: seafoid on January 06, 2016, 06:41:51 PM
Problems in Germany on New Year's Eve only coming to light now.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35231046

I posted something similar yesterday. Huge gangs roaming the streets will be replicated all over europe.
How is this integration project ever going to work?
How are catholics and protestant ever going to work together? How will gay and straight people even coexist? How will Cork people and Dublin people ever understand each other

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWUsSawPeVg
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: armaghniac on January 06, 2016, 07:02:18 PM
How are catholics and protestant ever going to work together?

Well Protestants have been here for 400 years and are still going around their own gangs causing trouble.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Mayo4Sam on January 06, 2016, 09:33:15 PM
"Fox commander, you seem to be a socialist when it suits you, judging by posts on other threads?
Is it an a la carte version you adhere to?
Because what you're talking about about would fall under a kind of totalitarian dictatorship political model and I'm quiet sure you don't want to pledge allegiance to Enda."

The above is a contradiction in principles

Erm...you wrote that piece above. I'm still waiting for you to show me where I've contradicted myself in my comments.
You understand the concept of ideology?
Well ur comments on the FG thread suggest ur a socialist?
Whether ur views on refugees is completely the opposite ideology.
There's the contradiction
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on January 06, 2016, 09:49:53 PM
"Fox commander, you seem to be a socialist when it suits you, judging by posts on other threads?
Is it an a la carte version you adhere to?
Because what you're talking about about would fall under a kind of totalitarian dictatorship political model and I'm quiet sure you don't want to pledge allegiance to Enda."

The above is a contradiction in principles

Erm...you wrote that piece above. I'm still waiting for you to show me where I've contradicted myself in my comments.
You understand the concept of ideology?
Well ur comments on the FG thread suggest ur a socialist?
Whether ur views on refugees is completely the opposite ideology.
There's the contradiction

Again, please show me where I have contradicted myself in my comments.

Your problem is that in your narrow view you want to try pigeon-hole people into a category. I prefer to make judgements on what I see, not blindly guided by some ideology you've defined.

Let's play the Mayo4Sam Ideology game

A) Don't like Irish Water or Fine Gael - you must be a socialist
B) Don't agree with unvetted "refugees" or "asylum seekers" being allowed into Ireland  - therefore you must approve of a "totalitarian dictatorship political model" and be a fan of Enda Kenny

Choices choices....
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: whitey on January 06, 2016, 11:57:56 PM
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/06/tensions-rise-in-germany-over-handling-of-mass-sexual-assaults-in-cologne

Delighted to see that the poor refugees are behaving themselves and assimilating into German society
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on January 07, 2016, 12:54:22 AM
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/06/tensions-rise-in-germany-over-handling-of-mass-sexual-assaults-in-cologne

Delighted to see that the poor refugees are behaving themselves and assimilating into German society

It's probably worth noting that:

Quote
neither the identity nor origin of any of them has so far been established.

And with ~ 800k refugees having arrived in Germany, do you really expect none of them to be criminals?? These men should be dealt with in the same way as anyone else who breaks the law rather than used as sticks to beat the law abiding majority with.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: whitey on January 07, 2016, 01:39:39 AM
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/06/tensions-rise-in-germany-over-handling-of-mass-sexual-assaults-in-cologne

Delighted to see that the poor refugees are behaving themselves and assimilating into German society

It's probably worth noting that:

Quote
neither the identity nor origin of any of them has so far been established.

And with ~ 800k refugees having arrived in Germany, do you really expect none of them to be criminals?? These men should be dealt with in the same way as anyone else who breaks the law rather than used as sticks to beat the law abiding majority with.

Well I read several reports on what happened including the BBC report:

"City police chief Wolfgang Albers called it "a completely new dimension of crime". The men were of Arab or North African appearance, he said."

Stop making excuses and apologies for these fvckers-many if those claiming to be refugees are anything but
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: seafoid on January 07, 2016, 06:10:51 AM
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/06/tensions-rise-in-germany-over-handling-of-mass-sexual-assaults-in-cologne

Delighted to see that the poor refugees are behaving themselves and assimilating into German society

It's probably worth noting that:

Quote
neither the identity nor origin of any of them has so far been established.

And with ~ 800k refugees having arrived in Germany, do you really expect none of them to be criminals?? These men should be dealt with in the same way as anyone else who breaks the law rather than used as sticks to beat the law abiding majority with.

Well I read several reports on what happened including the BBC report:

"City police chief Wolfgang Albers called it "a completely new dimension of crime". The men were of Arab or North African appearance, he said."

Stop making excuses and apologies for these fvckers-many if those claiming to be refugees are anything but
Sexual assaults were a feature of the chaos in egypt in 2011

Most refugees are decent people. Irish history in the Shtates, remember? Racism tarring the all justified by the unacceptable behavior of the few.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Lecale2 on January 07, 2016, 09:23:22 AM
The sexual assaults in Germany by organised gangs of young men are probably more about attitudes to women in certain societies.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Esmarelda on January 07, 2016, 09:28:41 AM
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/06/tensions-rise-in-germany-over-handling-of-mass-sexual-assaults-in-cologne

Delighted to see that the poor refugees are behaving themselves and assimilating into German society

It's probably worth noting that:

Quote
neither the identity nor origin of any of them has so far been established.

And with ~ 800k refugees having arrived in Germany, do you really expect none of them to be criminals?? These men should be dealt with in the same way as anyone else who breaks the law rather than used as sticks to beat the law abiding majority with.

Well I read several reports on what happened including the BBC report:

"City police chief Wolfgang Albers called it "a completely new dimension of crime". The men were of Arab or North African appearance, he said."

Stop making excuses and apologies for these fvckers-many if those claiming to be refugees are anything but
So if everyone was to say what happened was wrong and that it was definitely refugees that carried out these attack what is your point exactly?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Mayo4Sam on January 07, 2016, 02:03:03 PM
"Fox commander, you seem to be a socialist when it suits you, judging by posts on other threads?
Is it an a la carte version you adhere to?
Because what you're talking about about would fall under a kind of totalitarian dictatorship political model and I'm quiet sure you don't want to pledge allegiance to Enda."

The above is a contradiction in principles

Erm...you wrote that piece above. I'm still waiting for you to show me where I've contradicted myself in my comments.
You understand the concept of ideology?
Well ur comments on the FG thread suggest ur a socialist?
Whether ur views on refugees is completely the opposite ideology.
There's the contradiction

Again, please show me where I have contradicted myself in my comments.

Your problem is that in your narrow view you want to try pigeon-hole people into a category. I prefer to make judgements on what I see, not blindly guided by some ideology you've defined.

Let's play the Mayo4Sam Ideology game

A) Don't like Irish Water or Fine Gael - you must be a socialist
B) Don't agree with unvetted "refugees" or "asylum seekers" being allowed into Ireland  - therefore you must approve of a "totalitarian dictatorship political model" and be a fan of Enda Kenny

Choices choices....

Ok so.....
Below is in direct contradiction to what you say about refugees, who are currently alive and need help and therefore meet your requirements below.

"While there are those who are now demanding something to be done about a situation that is known to have stopped over 50 years ago you fail to see my point about doing something for those who are currently alive and need help. Is this cynical, callous or maybe practical?
The population should concentrate their energies on the things they can change and make a difference for. "

"More like the "I'm alright Jack" mentality we've come to know and love"

And you're a socialist because you're a SF/IRA supporter
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on January 07, 2016, 02:27:27 PM
"Fox commander, you seem to be a socialist when it suits you, judging by posts on other threads?
Is it an a la carte version you adhere to?
Because what you're talking about about would fall under a kind of totalitarian dictatorship political model and I'm quiet sure you don't want to pledge allegiance to Enda."

The above is a contradiction in principles

Erm...you wrote that piece above. I'm still waiting for you to show me where I've contradicted myself in my comments.
You understand the concept of ideology?
Well ur comments on the FG thread suggest ur a socialist?
Whether ur views on refugees is completely the opposite ideology.
There's the contradiction

Again, please show me where I have contradicted myself in my comments.

Your problem is that in your narrow view you want to try pigeon-hole people into a category. I prefer to make judgements on what I see, not blindly guided by some ideology you've defined.

Let's play the Mayo4Sam Ideology game

A) Don't like Irish Water or Fine Gael - you must be a socialist
B) Don't agree with unvetted "refugees" or "asylum seekers" being allowed into Ireland  - therefore you must approve of a "totalitarian dictatorship political model" and be a fan of Enda Kenny

Choices choices....

Ok so.....
Below is in direct contradiction to what you say about refugees, who are currently alive and need help and therefore meet your requirements below.

"While there are those who are now demanding something to be done about a situation that is known to have stopped over 50 years ago you fail to see my point about doing something for those who are currently alive and need help. Is this cynical, callous or maybe practical?
The population should concentrate their energies on the things they can change and make a difference for. "

"More like the "I'm alright Jack" mentality we've come to know and love"

And you're a socialist because you're a SF/IRA supporter

No idea what the top quote is about.  I can't be arsed searching so you can let me know.

What context was the bottom quote taken from?  I've been clear about my opposition to letting in refugees unvetted into europe without restrictions. I have stated that help should be given to them (and potentially some temporary visas in europe) but surely the answer isn't to move them to europe full time - a solution needs to be found in their own country.

Please let me know where I've stated I'm a socialist SF/IRA supporter. You sound like Gregory Campbell when you call them that.

To me you sound like a bleeding heart liberal who wants all these bogus asylum seekers sponging off welfare, gangs roaming the countryside robbing isolated houses, then pleading for mercy when they get caught in the act.
That's why the country is going to hell.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Mayo4Sam on January 07, 2016, 02:42:47 PM
No, I'm a capitalist, I'd like all the SF/IRA supporters and those who vote for Murphy, Ming, Wallace and Clare Daly to pay their taxes and support the working masses. I'd reduce social welfare to enough for people to live on and I'd kick people off unemployment welfare after a short length of time, we have more people in work in Ireland than ever before.
I'd also give refuge to people who deserve it and are probably more educated, more willing to work and more use to society than the people who vote for SF/IRA, Murphy, Ming, Wallace or Clare Daly.
But thats just me.

And I literally have no idea who Gregory Campbell is, I'm guessing a soccer manager or one of them celebrity shows, either way I couldn't give a f**k if I sound like him.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on January 07, 2016, 02:48:17 PM
And I literally have no idea who Gregory Campbell is, I'm guessing a soccer manager or one of them celebrity shows, either way I couldn't give a f**k if I sound like him.

Gregory Campbell is the manager of Derry GAA senior county footballers and a member of Boyzone.
You should read more.

Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: screenexile on January 07, 2016, 03:05:27 PM
And I literally have no idea who Gregory Campbell is, I'm guessing a soccer manager or one of them celebrity shows, either way I couldn't give a f**k if I sound like him.

Gregory Campbell is the manager of Derry GAA senior county footballers and a member of Boyzone.
You should read more.

Easy easy!!! No need to ruin the reputation of a fine institution like Derry GAA in your petty squabbles!!!

PS M4S Campbell was the esteemed DUP MLA who's attempt at addressing the Speaker of Stormont in Irish amounted to "Curry my yoghurt can coca colier"
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on January 07, 2016, 03:10:19 PM
And I literally have no idea who Gregory Campbell is, I'm guessing a soccer manager or one of them celebrity shows, either way I couldn't give a f**k if I sound like him.

Gregory Campbell is the manager of Derry GAA senior county footballers and a member of Boyzone.
You should read more.

Easy easy!!! No need to ruin the reputation of a fine institution like Derry GAA in your petty squabbles!!!

PS M4S Campbell was the esteemed DUP MLA who's attempt at addressing the Speaker of Stormont in Irish amounted to "Curry my yoghurt can coca colier"

For the benefit of Mayo4Sam I should have said Gregory Campbell is the manager of Londonderry GAA senior county footballers.

His grasp of politics might prevent him from recognising certain placenames




Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Mayo4Sam on January 07, 2016, 03:20:34 PM
I've an excellent grasp of politics
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on January 07, 2016, 03:29:46 PM
I've an excellent grasp of politics

Yet you've never heard of Gregory Campbell?

Do you mean 26 county politics only?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Mayo4Sam on January 07, 2016, 03:45:12 PM
Well northern politics has no impact on me, at all

But nice deflection from your contradictions, going back to that, you're all for helping people who need help so long as they are Irish/European? Or is it just some Europeans? I'm guessing the Romanians mightn't be getting your help?

But your against the "I'm alright Jack" mentality

And you don't see that as a contradiction?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on January 07, 2016, 04:04:59 PM
Well northern politics has no impact on me, at all

But nice deflection from your contradictions, going back to that, you're all for helping people who need help so long as they are Irish/European? Or is it just some Europeans? I'm guessing the Romanians mightn't be getting your help?

But your against the "I'm alright Jack" mentality

And you don't see that as a contradiction?

But you claim to have an excellent grasp of politics. In one jurisdiction.

Before sorting out world issues the government should sort out the problems closer to home. Homelessness and child poverty are still rife and getting worse by the day but are continually being swept under the carpet at home - no-one at the top wants to admit theres a serious f*%ing issue going on. Shouldn't these be addressed before starting to tackle an issue which is a product of greedy nations fighting over resources and territories.

Instead the focus has shifted to the flooding taskforce which will be forgotten about when the weather picks up. Next month it will be another taskforce about some other issue. And it goes on....keep the sheep preoccupied by the crisis of the day. Nothing really gets fully solved.

As I said before aid should be given to these genuine refugees. Now, where's your argument again?

Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Mayo4Sam on January 07, 2016, 04:07:43 PM
So what ur saying ur is that ur all for helping people but only when everything else is sorted out is it??
What an absolutely outrageous concept. By that measure we shouldn't give any aid because we need the money here to solve problems

What would you say if these refugees were from Palestine?

U hop from one side of the argument to the other across different threads depending on who u deem needy, ur a walking contradiction


And finishing ur posts with "wheres your argument again?" is ridiculous when you are this wrong and hypocritical
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on January 07, 2016, 04:23:42 PM
So what ur saying ur is that ur all for helping people but only when everything else is sorted out is it??
What an absolutely outrageous concept. By that measure we shouldn't give any aid because we need the money here to solve problems

What would you say if these refugees were from Palestine?

U hop from one side of the argument to the other across different threads depending on who u deem needy, ur a walking contradiction


And finishing ur posts with "wheres your argument again?" is ridiculous when you are this wrong and hypocritical

How about fixing something properly before moving on to the next issue. If you're going to build a house of cards surely that doesn't really help anyone in the long run.

I'd say the same about palestine or anywhere else for that matter.

You haven't got an argument which is why I keep highlighting it.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Mayo4Sam on January 07, 2016, 04:35:32 PM
Highlighting what? I think refugees should be welcomed here

I think you jump from Billy to Jack across threads
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: armaghniac on January 07, 2016, 05:25:09 PM
The Germans have fecked up here big time. With allowing in vast numbers of youths of dubious origin, who had been rioting at the Hungarian border and elsewhere, and having this idling about the place it was always likely that some sort of flareup would occur.With this likelihood more police were needed and had these been deployed it would have been a storm in a teacup. We've had these events, the attempted cover up, and the inevitable mealy mouthed excuses from the usual sources both lefties who see no evil and bureaucrats covering their arsch. THis will lead to a significant shift in public opinion when deploying a few police in advance would have sorted it.

I've often travelled at the New Year and been in Germany several times, although not Cologne. Generally festivities are good natured, the only place I encounted these mobs was in Brussels.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on January 07, 2016, 05:37:10 PM
Highlighting what? I think refugees should be welcomed here

I think you jump from Billy to Jack across threads

Who's going to fund these refugees and how many do you think the government should invite.
If there is already a 10% unemployment rate (not counting the scambridge figures) where will refugees find work to sustain themselves? Surely that would mean layoffs for currently employed people if they get undercut on wages.


Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Mayo4Sam on January 07, 2016, 05:41:12 PM
Highlighting what? I think refugees should be welcomed here

I think you jump from Billy to Jack across threads

Who's going to fund these refugees and how many do you think the government should invite.
If there is already a 10% unemployment rate (not counting the scambridge figures) where will refugees find work to sustain themselves? Surely that would mean layoffs for currently employed people if they get undercut on wages.

Theres an 8.9% unemployment rate
As I said before these people are much more likely to get a job than the likes who won't pay their taxes and sponge off the state
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on January 07, 2016, 05:51:28 PM
Highlighting what? I think refugees should be welcomed here

I think you jump from Billy to Jack across threads

Who's going to fund these refugees and how many do you think the government should invite.
If there is already a 10% unemployment rate (not counting the scambridge figures) where will refugees find work to sustain themselves? Surely that would mean layoffs for currently employed people if they get undercut on wages.

Theres an 8.9% unemployment rate
As I said before these people are much more likely to get a job than the likes who won't pay their taxes and sponge off the state

So jobs appear out of thin air in your world.

If a position arises surely you want to try fill it with one of the 8.9% who don't have one to give them an income.


Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on January 08, 2016, 12:42:42 AM
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/06/tensions-rise-in-germany-over-handling-of-mass-sexual-assaults-in-cologne

Delighted to see that the poor refugees are behaving themselves and assimilating into German society

It's probably worth noting that:

Quote
neither the identity nor origin of any of them has so far been established.

And with ~ 800k refugees having arrived in Germany, do you really expect none of them to be criminals?? These men should be dealt with in the same way as anyone else who breaks the law rather than used as sticks to beat the law abiding majority with.

Well I read several reports on what happened including the BBC report:

"City police chief Wolfgang Albers called it "a completely new dimension of crime". The men were of Arab or North African appearance, he said."

Stop making excuses and apologies for these fvckers-many if those claiming to be refugees are anything but

Did you think there would be no criminals among the 800k refugees arriving in Germany?? Anyone breaking the law in a serious manner like this should do a stint in jail and then be out on his arse.

Do you think all irish people should be judged based on some of the knackers that have left here for Australia, etc over the past few years??

Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on January 08, 2016, 03:52:44 AM
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/06/tensions-rise-in-germany-over-handling-of-mass-sexual-assaults-in-cologne

Delighted to see that the poor refugees are behaving themselves and assimilating into German society

It's probably worth noting that:

Quote
neither the identity nor origin of any of them has so far been established.

And with ~ 800k refugees having arrived in Germany, do you really expect none of them to be criminals?? These men should be dealt with in the same way as anyone else who breaks the law rather than used as sticks to beat the law abiding majority with.

Well I read several reports on what happened including the BBC report:

"City police chief Wolfgang Albers called it "a completely new dimension of crime". The men were of Arab or North African appearance, he said."

Stop making excuses and apologies for these fvckers-many if those claiming to be refugees are anything but

Did you think there would be no criminals among the 800k refugees arriving in Germany?? Anyone breaking the law in a serious manner like this should do a stint in jail and then be out on his arse.

Do you think all irish people should be judged based on some of the knackers that have left here for Australia, etc over the past few years??

How many irish have gone to Australia expecting handouts from their government for free. You wont last too long if you don't work or have some cash to keep you going.
And don't you need to have police clearance to get an oz visa in the first place?

Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: whitey on January 08, 2016, 05:55:13 AM
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/06/tensions-rise-in-germany-over-handling-of-mass-sexual-assaults-in-cologne

Delighted to see that the poor refugees are behaving themselves and assimilating into German society

It's probably worth noting that:

Quote
neither the identity nor origin of any of them has so far been established.

And with ~ 800k refugees having arrived in Germany, do you really expect none of them to be criminals?? These men should be dealt with in the same way as anyone else who breaks the law rather than used as sticks to beat the law abiding majority with.

Well I read several reports on what happened including the BBC report:

"City police chief Wolfgang Albers called it "a completely new dimension of crime". The men were of Arab or North African appearance, he said."

Stop making excuses and apologies for these fvckers-many if those claiming to be refugees are anything but

Did you think there would be no criminals among the 800k refugees arriving in Germany?? Anyone breaking the law in a serious manner like this should do a stint in jail and then be out on his arse.

Do you think all irish people should be judged based on some of the knackers that have left here for Australia, etc over the past few years??

Of course there will be a criminal element among any ethnic group, but this wasn't one or two or a handful of bad apples giving everyone else a bad name.

This was ONE THOUSAND bad apples, all with a total disregard for the law and for the safety and wellbeing of the people who have opened their doors and laid out a welcome mat for them

This is very scary and people should concerned
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: armaghniac on January 08, 2016, 06:05:03 PM
Cologne Police Chief walks the plank
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/08/cologne-violence-suspects-include-asylum-seekers
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on January 08, 2016, 06:18:57 PM
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/06/tensions-rise-in-germany-over-handling-of-mass-sexual-assaults-in-cologne

Delighted to see that the poor refugees are behaving themselves and assimilating into German society

It's probably worth noting that:

Quote
neither the identity nor origin of any of them has so far been established.

And with ~ 800k refugees having arrived in Germany, do you really expect none of them to be criminals?? These men should be dealt with in the same way as anyone else who breaks the law rather than used as sticks to beat the law abiding majority with.

Well I read several reports on what happened including the BBC report:

"City police chief Wolfgang Albers called it "a completely new dimension of crime". The men were of Arab or North African appearance, he said."

Stop making excuses and apologies for these fvckers-many if those claiming to be refugees are anything but

Did you think there would be no criminals among the 800k refugees arriving in Germany?? Anyone breaking the law in a serious manner like this should do a stint in jail and then be out on his arse.

Do you think all irish people should be judged based on some of the knackers that have left here for Australia, etc over the past few years??

How many irish have gone to Australia expecting handouts from their government for free. You wont last too long if you don't work or have some cash to keep you going.
And don't you need to have police clearance to get an oz visa in the first place?

No, you don't need police clearance to get an Australian visa

Regardless of whether they get handouts, should all irish be judged on the back of the actions of some irish abroad?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on January 08, 2016, 06:23:03 PM
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/06/tensions-rise-in-germany-over-handling-of-mass-sexual-assaults-in-cologne

Delighted to see that the poor refugees are behaving themselves and assimilating into German society

It's probably worth noting that:

Quote
neither the identity nor origin of any of them has so far been established.

And with ~ 800k refugees having arrived in Germany, do you really expect none of them to be criminals?? These men should be dealt with in the same way as anyone else who breaks the law rather than used as sticks to beat the law abiding majority with.

Well I read several reports on what happened including the BBC report:

"City police chief Wolfgang Albers called it "a completely new dimension of crime". The men were of Arab or North African appearance, he said."

Stop making excuses and apologies for these fvckers-many if those claiming to be refugees are anything but

Did you think there would be no criminals among the 800k refugees arriving in Germany?? Anyone breaking the law in a serious manner like this should do a stint in jail and then be out on his arse.

Do you think all irish people should be judged based on some of the knackers that have left here for Australia, etc over the past few years??

Of course there will be a criminal element among any ethnic group, but this wasn't one or two or a handful of bad apples giving everyone else a bad name.

This was ONE THOUSAND bad apples, all with a total disregard for the law and for the safety and wellbeing of the people who have opened their doors and laid out a welcome mat for them

This is very scary and people should concerned

Tbf, that report says "between 500 and 1000" but yes people should be concerned and definitely yes the cops should be clamping down hard on anything like this. Blaming the entire refugee population isn't the answer though
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on January 08, 2016, 06:26:05 PM
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/06/tensions-rise-in-germany-over-handling-of-mass-sexual-assaults-in-cologne

Delighted to see that the poor refugees are behaving themselves and assimilating into German society

It's probably worth noting that:

Quote
neither the identity nor origin of any of them has so far been established.

And with ~ 800k refugees having arrived in Germany, do you really expect none of them to be criminals?? These men should be dealt with in the same way as anyone else who breaks the law rather than used as sticks to beat the law abiding majority with.

Well I read several reports on what happened including the BBC report:

"City police chief Wolfgang Albers called it "a completely new dimension of crime". The men were of Arab or North African appearance, he said."

Stop making excuses and apologies for these fvckers-many if those claiming to be refugees are anything but

Did you think there would be no criminals among the 800k refugees arriving in Germany?? Anyone breaking the law in a serious manner like this should do a stint in jail and then be out on his arse.

Do you think all irish people should be judged based on some of the knackers that have left here for Australia, etc over the past few years??

How many irish have gone to Australia expecting handouts from their government for free. You wont last too long if you don't work or have some cash to keep you going.
And don't you need to have police clearance to get an oz visa in the first place?

No, you don't need police clearance to get an Australian visa

Regardless of whether they get handouts, should all irish be judged on the back of the actions of some irish abroad?

But you still have to apply for the visa before travelling there which means they can do their homework on their end prior to your arrival.  Not just land up in a country and demand stuff.

You're judging the behaviour of the people who have travelled, not the ones who havent.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: whitey on January 08, 2016, 06:43:05 PM
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/06/tensions-rise-in-germany-over-handling-of-mass-sexual-assaults-in-cologne

Delighted to see that the poor refugees are behaving themselves and assimilating into German society

It's probably worth noting that:

Quote
neither the identity nor origin of any of them has so far been established.

And with ~ 800k refugees having arrived in Germany, do you really expect none of them to be criminals?? These men should be dealt with in the same way as anyone else who breaks the law rather than used as sticks to beat the law abiding majority with.

Well I read several reports on what happened including the BBC report:

"City police chief Wolfgang Albers called it "a completely new dimension of crime". The men were of Arab or North African appearance, he said."

Stop making excuses and apologies for these fvckers-many if those claiming to be refugees are anything but

Did you think there would be no criminals among the 800k refugees arriving in Germany?? Anyone breaking the law in a serious manner like this should do a stint in jail and then be out on his arse.

Do you think all irish people should be judged based on some of the knackers that have left here for Australia, etc over the past few years??

How many irish have gone to Australia expecting handouts from their government for free. You wont last too long if you don't work or have some cash to keep you going.
And don't you need to have police clearance to get an oz visa in the first place?

No, you don't need police clearance to get an Australian visa

Regardless of whether they get handouts, should all irish be judged on the back of the actions of some irish abroad?

But you still have to apply for the visa before travelling there which means they can do their homework on their end prior to your arrival.  Not just land up in a country and demand stuff.

You're judging the behaviour of the people who have travelled, not the ones who havent.

I know a lad who got turned down for a Canadia. Work visa over a dangerous driving charge-did a handbrake turn in an empty car park and a Garda spotted him.  Came up when Canadian Embassy did the background check
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on January 08, 2016, 07:00:40 PM
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/06/tensions-rise-in-germany-over-handling-of-mass-sexual-assaults-in-cologne

Delighted to see that the poor refugees are behaving themselves and assimilating into German society

It's probably worth noting that:

Quote
neither the identity nor origin of any of them has so far been established.

And with ~ 800k refugees having arrived in Germany, do you really expect none of them to be criminals?? These men should be dealt with in the same way as anyone else who breaks the law rather than used as sticks to beat the law abiding majority with.

Well I read several reports on what happened including the BBC report:

"City police chief Wolfgang Albers called it "a completely new dimension of crime". The men were of Arab or North African appearance, he said."

Stop making excuses and apologies for these fvckers-many if those claiming to be refugees are anything but

Did you think there would be no criminals among the 800k refugees arriving in Germany?? Anyone breaking the law in a serious manner like this should do a stint in jail and then be out on his arse.

Do you think all irish people should be judged based on some of the knackers that have left here for Australia, etc over the past few years??

How many irish have gone to Australia expecting handouts from their government for free. You wont last too long if you don't work or have some cash to keep you going.
And don't you need to have police clearance to get an oz visa in the first place?

No, you don't need police clearance to get an Australian visa

Regardless of whether they get handouts, should all irish be judged on the back of the actions of some irish abroad?

But you still have to apply for the visa before travelling there which means they can do their homework on their end prior to your arrival.  Not just land up in a country and demand stuff.

You're judging the behaviour of the people who have travelled, not the ones who havent.

I know a lad who got turned down for a Canadia. Work visa over a dangerous driving charge-did a handbrake turn in an empty car park and a Garda spotted him.  Came up when Canadian Embassy did the background check

Not sure about now but in 2006, a friend of mine applied for the Australian visa got in despite having a record for beating up a bouncer. He just answered No to the question on the application form
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on January 08, 2016, 07:02:37 PM
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/06/tensions-rise-in-germany-over-handling-of-mass-sexual-assaults-in-cologne

Delighted to see that the poor refugees are behaving themselves and assimilating into German society

It's probably worth noting that:

Quote
neither the identity nor origin of any of them has so far been established.

And with ~ 800k refugees having arrived in Germany, do you really expect none of them to be criminals?? These men should be dealt with in the same way as anyone else who breaks the law rather than used as sticks to beat the law abiding majority with.

Well I read several reports on what happened including the BBC report:

"City police chief Wolfgang Albers called it "a completely new dimension of crime". The men were of Arab or North African appearance, he said."

Stop making excuses and apologies for these fvckers-many if those claiming to be refugees are anything but

Did you think there would be no criminals among the 800k refugees arriving in Germany?? Anyone breaking the law in a serious manner like this should do a stint in jail and then be out on his arse.

Do you think all irish people should be judged based on some of the knackers that have left here for Australia, etc over the past few years??

How many irish have gone to Australia expecting handouts from their government for free. You wont last too long if you don't work or have some cash to keep you going.
And don't you need to have police clearance to get an oz visa in the first place?

No, you don't need police clearance to get an Australian visa

Regardless of whether they get handouts, should all irish be judged on the back of the actions of some irish abroad?

But you still have to apply for the visa before travelling there which means they can do their homework on their end prior to your arrival.  Not just land up in a country and demand stuff.

You're judging the behaviour of the people who have travelled, not the ones who havent.

For the vast majority of these people, the reason they "just land up" is war!!

So would you judge all irish in Australia by the actions of some irish there?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Bord na Mona man on January 09, 2016, 04:53:19 AM
All those professors, doctors and engineers from Syria aren't ingratiating themselves to their hosts.
But lookit, the Irish get drunk in Australia, so it's grand.



Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on January 10, 2016, 12:42:45 AM
I think you missed the point there BnM man
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Mayo4Sam on January 10, 2016, 08:23:35 PM
All those professors, doctors and engineers from Syria aren't ingratiating themselves to their hosts a few racists on Gaaboard
But lookit, the Irish get drunk in Australia, so it's grand.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on January 11, 2016, 02:24:33 AM
All those professors, doctors and engineers from Syria aren't ingratiating themselves to their hosts a few racists on Gaaboard
But lookit, the Irish get drunk in Australia, so it's grand.

Ah jaysus..he went and pulled it out...

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: LeoMc on January 11, 2016, 08:07:00 AM
All those professors, doctors and engineers from Syria aren't ingratiating themselves to their hosts.
But lookit, the Irish get drunk in Australia, so it's grand.
Pretty broad brush there.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Mayo4Sam on January 11, 2016, 10:17:01 AM
All those professors, doctors and engineers from Syria aren't ingratiating themselves to their hosts a few racists on Gaaboard
But lookit, the Irish get drunk in Australia, so it's grand.

Ah jaysus..he went and pulled it out...

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Ha, ha, that link....... from the tea party, proves my point
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Mayo4Sam on January 11, 2016, 12:18:48 PM
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Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Bord na Mona man on January 11, 2016, 02:01:24 PM
I think you missed the point there BnM man
I saw your point all right and it look like whattabouttery, look over there tactics to me.

Merkel must have been cracked to launch into an open door policy. Even if this is only a small minority (maybe even it's Assad thugs doing this to poison the well for immigrants), she should have forseen the potential for trouble and the possible fall out from her policy.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on January 11, 2016, 05:43:32 PM
I think you missed the point there BnM man
I saw your point all right and it look like whattabouttery, look over there tactics to me.

Merkel must have been cracked to launch into an open door policy. Even if this is only a small minority (maybe even it's Assad thugs doing this to poison the well for immigrants), she should have forseen the potential for trouble and the possible fall out from her policy.

My point wasn't whataboutery - it was that you can't judge the many by the actions of a few.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on January 12, 2016, 03:09:52 PM
Regardless of whether they get handouts, should all irish be judged on the back of the actions of some irish abroad?

I don't recall irish being involved in 200+ indecent gang assaults (and others which havent been reported) in one area in one night. Please correct me.

At least Merkel now realises she was wrong and the authorities have evidence of who was involved.
Let's see the bleeding hearts defend the actions of so called "refugees" now.


http://news.nationalpost.com/news/angela-merkel-says-germany-has-lost-control-of-the-refugee-crisis-amid-public-anger-over-cologne-sex-attacks
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Mayo4Sam on January 12, 2016, 03:43:28 PM
Again another great source

The National Post: The anti-Islam Canadian newspaper
http://www.thecanadiancharger.com/page.php?id=5&a=1939 (http://www.thecanadiancharger.com/page.php?id=5&a=1939)

Maybe look to newspapers that might report the truth

Angela Merkel: Do not blame innocent refugees for Cologne attacks
http://www.irishexaminer.com/world/angela-merkel-do-not-blame-innocent-refugees-for-cologne-attacks-375743.html

Angela Merkel says Europe is 'vulnerable' to the refugee crisis
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/angela-merkel-says-europe-is-vulnerable-to-the-refugee-crisis-a6807326.html
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: armaghniac on January 12, 2016, 04:02:37 PM
Maybe look to newspapers that might report the truth

Angela Merkel: Do not blame innocent refugees for Cologne attacks
http://www.irishexaminer.com/world/angela-merkel-do-not-blame-innocent-refugees-for-cologne-attacks-375743.html

Angela Merkel says Europe is 'vulnerable' to the refugee crisis
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/angela-merkel-says-europe-is-vulnerable-to-the-refugee-crisis-a6807326.html

The Indo has no great affiliation with the truth.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2016/01/12/world/europe/ap-eu-germany-cologne-crimes.html

553 criminal complaints now. If the Germans take strong action here and turf out this lot, and make sure if doesn't happen again, then the discinctionwith decent refugees will be clear. DM100 they won't do this though.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on January 12, 2016, 06:57:50 PM
Regardless of whether they get handouts, should all irish be judged on the back of the actions of some irish abroad?

I don't recall irish being involved in 200+ indecent gang assaults (and others which havent been reported) in one area in one night. Please correct me.

At least Merkel now realises she was wrong and the authorities have evidence of who was involved.
Let's see the bleeding hearts defend the actions of so called "refugees" now.


http://news.nationalpost.com/news/angela-merkel-says-germany-has-lost-control-of-the-refugee-crisis-amid-public-anger-over-cologne-sex-attacks

They should hand out a list of crimes you can and can't commit on the way in foxy.

The people involved in this should be subjected to the law the same as anyone and be chucked out of the country. They shouldn't be used as an excuse to demonise the rest of the refugees
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Gmac on January 28, 2016, 02:49:14 PM
I see Sweden are talking about sending 60/80k of asylum seekers out of the country because their individual cases for asylum have been rejected ,conveniently the day after a social worker was stabbed to death by a refugee. The next election in most European countries should see some major changes in whose running these countries .
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on December 12, 2016, 10:47:39 PM
Anyone watch "the crossing"? Depressing stuff, hard to believe what those refugees go through
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: BarryBreensBandage on December 13, 2016, 12:10:51 AM
I liked this video regarding refugees in Toronto - a good news story for a change....

https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2016/dec/12/newcomer-kitchen-syrian-refugees-toronto-restaurant-video


Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Maroon Manc on January 06, 2017, 12:37:44 PM
80 Syrian refugees will be be housed at the Abbeyfield Hotel in Ballaghaderreen, looking at many of the comments on facebook it looks like some of the locals are not happy.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: AZOffaly on January 06, 2017, 12:51:40 PM
80 Syrian refugees will be be housed at the Abbeyfield Hotel in Ballaghaderreen, looking at many of the comments on facebook it looks like a lot of the locals are not happy.

Will they play for Mayo or Roscommon?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Minder on January 06, 2017, 12:54:05 PM
80 Syrian refugees will be be housed at the Abbeyfield Hotel in Ballaghaderreen, looking at many of the comments on facebook it looks like a lot of the locals are not happy.

Why are they not happy?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: weareros on January 06, 2017, 01:38:45 PM
80 Syrian refugees will be be housed at the Abbeyfield Hotel in Ballaghaderreen, looking at many of the comments on facebook it looks like a lot of the locals are not happy.

Why are they not happy?

Some of the comments are from ignorant buffoons who have no empathy.

Genuine concerns are from those who ask what  infrastructure a decaying town like Ballaghaderreen has to accommodate 80 refugees. To walk down Main Street, so many storefronts are closed up and a complete eyesore. There's half finished ghost estates that are dumping grounds. There's no greenspace. There's a bit of a children's playground in the old football field, that's it. The Abbeyfield Hotel itself is a zombie hotel from the Celtic Tiger era. The last hotel in the town - The Lough Gara - is long closed down and now an empty retail front. As bad as it is, it's still a much better place than where the poor people left and they will be well looked after.



Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on January 06, 2017, 01:39:36 PM
80 Syrian refugees will be be housed at the Abbeyfield Hotel in Ballaghaderreen, looking at many of the comments on facebook it looks like some of the locals are not happy.

Call me uncharitable but surely the government should prioritise tacking the homeless situation in their own country first.
When every citizen has a place to lay their heads at night then we can move on to tacking the world's issues.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Itchy on January 06, 2017, 01:45:12 PM
80 Syrian refugees will be be housed at the Abbeyfield Hotel in Ballaghaderreen, looking at many of the comments on facebook it looks like some of the locals are not happy.

Call me uncharitable but surely the government should prioritise tacking the homeless situation in their own country first.
When every citizen has a place to lay their heads at night then we can move on to tacking the world's issues.

Would the homeless in Dublin move to ballaghadreen?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: weareros on January 06, 2017, 01:49:24 PM
80 Syrian refugees will be be housed at the Abbeyfield Hotel in Ballaghaderreen, looking at many of the comments on facebook it looks like some of the locals are not happy.

Call me uncharitable but surely the government should prioritise tacking the homeless situation in their own country first.
When every citizen has a place to lay their heads at night then we can move on to tacking the world's issues.

Would the homeless in Dublin move to ballaghadreen?

No. It's a nonsense point from Fox.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Maroon Manc on January 06, 2017, 02:37:03 PM
80 Syrian refugees will be be housed at the Abbeyfield Hotel in Ballaghaderreen, looking at many of the comments on facebook it looks like a lot of the locals are not happy.

Why are they not happy?

Some of the comments are from ignorant buffoons who have no empathy.

Genuine concerns are from those who ask what  infrastructure a decaying town like Ballaghaderreen has to accommodate 80 refugees. To walk down Main Street, so many storefronts are closed up and a complete eyesore. There's half finished ghost estates that are dumping grounds. There's no greenspace. There's a bit of a children's playground in the old football field, that's it. The Abbeyfield Hotel itself is a zombie hotel from the Celtic Tiger era. The last hotel in the town - The Lough Gara - is long closed down and now an empty retail front. As bad as it is, it's still a much better place than where the poor people left and they will be well looked after.

There are certainly some genuine concerns in fairness.

Who owns the hotel now? I was under the impression it was to be re-opened to the public?

Something like this doesn't happen overnight either so its hard not to jump to the conclusion that whoever bought so did on the basis that there was a government contract in the offing.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on January 06, 2017, 03:22:46 PM
80 Syrian refugees will be be housed at the Abbeyfield Hotel in Ballaghaderreen, looking at many of the comments on facebook it looks like some of the locals are not happy.

Call me uncharitable but surely the government should prioritise tacking the homeless situation in their own country first.
When every citizen has a place to lay their heads at night then we can move on to tacking the world's issues.

Would the homeless in Dublin move to ballaghadreen?

Probably not but the solution isn't as simple as moving a grouping of people to one location.
I think its a shame that the decentralisation of Dublin plan never really worked. Too much emphasis on the capital.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Esmarelda on January 06, 2017, 03:50:31 PM
A local representative was on with Hook on Newstalk earlier and he says that there's been very little communication from the Department of Justice. Basically they've been told the refugees are coming. I think he said they were being given English lessons for a couple of weeks.

Nothing about employment, schooling etc.

He seemed genuine.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: JoG2 on January 06, 2017, 05:00:53 PM
80 Syrian refugees will be be housed at the Abbeyfield Hotel in Ballaghaderreen, looking at many of the comments on facebook it looks like a lot of the locals are not happy.

Why are they not happy?

Because there's a growing level of nastiness in the world lead by the gutter press.* Look out for no 1 only and to hell with your fellow man.  It's truly sickening

* still amazes me how a rag like the Daily Heil was able to set up an Irish version after decades of hate towards the Irish living in Britain,  the mind truly boggles
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: saffronandblue on January 06, 2017, 06:30:56 PM
Far too many do-gooders in this country. I'd say the locals might have accepted 80 but when it's going to be 200/250 in a town of around 1000 people it's more than any town should have to cope with. Imagine telling the Dubs that there were 200,000 refugees coming in the next couple of months.  That's the scale of the incoming numbers of refugees.  One wonders who are the shrewd investors were that purchased the hotel a few months ago??????????? On a brighter note, isn't it great to see our great Enda delivering for the West again.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: manfromdelmonte on January 06, 2017, 06:47:35 PM
Far too many do-gooders in this country. I'd say the locals might have accepted 80 but when it's going to be 200/250 in a town of around 1000 people it's more than any town should have to cope with. Imagine telling the Dubs that there were 200,000 refugees coming in the next couple of months.  That's the scale of the incoming numbers of refugees.  One wonders who are the shrewd investors were that purchased the hotel a few months ago??????????? On a brighter note, isn't it great to see our great Enda delivering for the West again.
Now that would be an interesting revelation, the hotel ownership
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Rossfan on January 06, 2017, 06:54:29 PM
A FG supporter I wonder. ::)
May I wish the poor devils all the best and no doubt the good people of the West Roscommon town will do all they can for them.
As for those who don't want the Refugees in Ireland - try spending a week where they came from.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 06, 2017, 07:02:38 PM
still amazes me how a rag like the Daily Heil was able to set up an Irish version after decades of hate towards the Irish living in Britain,  the mind truly boggles

Doesn't amaze me at all. Begrudgery is the Irish national sport, and hatred towards immigrants is socially acceptable. Always has been. For a country that sent so many people to the ends of the Earth and wrote a million self-pitying ballad songs about it, it seems to have a hard time putting up with other people doing the same in reverse. And as soon as you open your mouth about it you get branded a "do-gooder" or a "liberal" as if that were some sort of insult. You only have to scroll through a typical online thread to see that there's a market for conservative racist buffoonery.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Itchy on January 06, 2017, 07:04:21 PM
A FG supporter I wonder. ::)
May I wish the poor devils all the best and no doubt the good people of the West Roscommon town will do all they can for them.
As for those who don't want the Refugees in Ireland - try spending a week where they came from.

Well said. The Irish gave a lot more when we had a lot less. The Celtic tiger has a lot to answer for, the nasty spiteful miserable b**tards it produced.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 06, 2017, 07:06:08 PM
80 Syrian refugees will be be housed at the Abbeyfield Hotel in Ballaghaderreen, looking at many of the comments on facebook it looks like some of the locals are not happy.

Call me uncharitable but surely the government should prioritise tacking the homeless situation in their own country first.
When every citizen has a place to lay their heads at night then we can move on to tacking the world's issues.

Hello, Uncharitable. Are you one of those conservative "what about our own homeless" parrots who floods every FB comment thread about refugees with the same old talking point?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 06, 2017, 07:07:24 PM
I think its a shame that the decentralisation of Dublin plan never really worked. Too much emphasis on the capital.

See? Every once in a while you are capable of posting a sane comment. You should try it more often.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Minder on January 06, 2017, 07:11:23 PM
It's been happening in the north since last December 15, 40 or 50 coming at a time to Belfast, where they stay for a few days, getting forms filled out etc for benefits then they are housed across the north. We have all seen on the news what they have come from so I'm not sure anyone could begrudge them coming here
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Syferus on January 06, 2017, 07:23:12 PM
A FG supporter I wonder. ::)
May I wish the poor devils all the best and no doubt the good people of the West Roscommon town will do all they can for them.
As for those who don't want the Refugees in Ireland - try spending a week where they came from.

I'm a little appalled by Hopkins and Murphy veiling subtle racism behind claims of lack of facilities. Ballagh is so filled to the brim with empty housing it's not even funny. With an exsisting and long established Muslim community Ballagh is probably one of the best places in Ireland for refugees from Syria, if the government actually engages locals in helping acclimatise them and making them feel welcome. Anyone who thinks Ballagh can't suppprt these numbers honestly knows nothing about the town or its history.

This is a great opportunity for the area to show its true colours by treating these people, who are coming from one of the most hellish war zones of my lifetime, with dignity and respect. Ballagh is on the clock now and it will have to choose between inclusiveness and insularity.

Complaining about not being consulted is the PC way of saying NIMBY. It's 80 people, likely many of whom are women and children. There's nothing to consult about at this stage.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: whitey on January 06, 2017, 07:31:27 PM
The best one ever was the traveller family in Castlebar out protesting against refugees. The same traveller family have terrorized the residents of any estate they were ever housed in
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Rossfan on January 06, 2017, 07:33:44 PM
Hopkins and Murphy could do with shutting their gobs for 1 feckin week in the year  just to save us from listening to their non stop spouting.
Amazing how every proposal seems to be in the wrong place ::)
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on January 06, 2017, 08:44:05 PM
80 Syrian refugees will be be housed at the Abbeyfield Hotel in Ballaghaderreen, looking at many of the comments on facebook it looks like some of the locals are not happy.

Call me uncharitable but surely the government should prioritise tacking the homeless situation in their own country first.
When every citizen has a place to lay their heads at night then we can move on to tacking the world's issues.

Hello, Uncharitable. Are you one of those conservative "what about our own homeless" parrots who floods every FB comment thread about refugees with the same old talking point?

There is a poverty crisis in our country. We can't look after our own citizens as it stands.
I dare you to say that Ireland can afford to add thousands more.




Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on January 06, 2017, 08:50:33 PM
It's 80 people

For now. It's a bit late anyway, the damage was done years ago with the first wave of fibs about asylum status 20 years ago. We heard the same bleeding heart shit then and the fools still fall for it. Liberals beat up anyone who speaks out against it.

Going the same way England did - turning into a cesspit.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Itchy on January 06, 2017, 08:52:55 PM
I'd swap 80 refugees for you Fox. Anyday.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 06, 2017, 09:00:03 PM
80 Syrian refugees will be be housed at the Abbeyfield Hotel in Ballaghaderreen, looking at many of the comments on facebook it looks like some of the locals are not happy.

Call me uncharitable but surely the government should prioritise tacking the homeless situation in their own country first.
When every citizen has a place to lay their heads at night then we can move on to tacking the world's issues.

Hello, Uncharitable. Are you one of those conservative "what about our own homeless" parrots who floods every FB comment thread about refugees with the same old talking point?

There is a poverty crisis in our country. We can't look after our own citizens as it stands.
I dare you to say that Ireland can afford to add thousands more.

Ireland can afford to add thousands more.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 06, 2017, 09:01:02 PM
It's 80 people

For now. It's a bit late anyway, the damage was done years ago with the first wave of fibs about asylum status 20 years ago. We heard the same bleeding heart shit then and the fools still fall for it. Liberals beat up anyone who speaks out against it.

Going the same way England did - turning into a cesspit.

I stopped reading at "liberals."
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 06, 2017, 09:01:21 PM
80 Syrian refugees will be be housed at the Abbeyfield Hotel in Ballaghaderreen, looking at many of the comments on facebook it looks like some of the locals are not happy.

Call me uncharitable but surely the government should prioritise tacking the homeless situation in their own country first.
When every citizen has a place to lay their heads at night then we can move on to tacking the world's issues.

Hello, Uncharitable. Are you one of those conservative "what about our own homeless" parrots who floods every FB comment thread about refugees with the same old talking point?

There is a poverty crisis in our country. We can't look after our own citizens as it stands.
I dare you to say that Ireland can afford to add thousands more.

By all accounts the South is doing a lot better than Britain so well capable of taking  80-100 refugees, followed off course by their extended family!
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: No wides on January 06, 2017, 09:03:58 PM
I'd swap 80 refugees for you Fox. Anyday.

What if they moved next door to you refused to integrate into their new society, as soon as your property price fell you would rather have fox. Another chic liberal Jesus wept
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: bennydorano on January 06, 2017, 09:04:55 PM
No show without punch
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: No wides on January 06, 2017, 09:07:32 PM
No show without punch

Pathetic benny keep in with gang. And most of your posts are reasonable. How did the purge go?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: bennydorano on January 06, 2017, 09:13:35 PM
Away & take your face for a shite as one of the Gallsmen would say.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: No wides on January 06, 2017, 09:32:07 PM
Away & take your face for a shite as one of the Gallsmen would say.

Bless  :-*
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on January 06, 2017, 09:48:31 PM
I'd swap 80 refugees for you Fox. Anyday.

It won't stop at 80.

Cesspit.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Itchy on January 06, 2017, 09:51:25 PM
I'd swap 80 refugees for you Fox. Anyday.

It won't stop at 80.

Cesspit.

If it's such a cesspit go ahead and leave, bring thatcher with you.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on January 06, 2017, 09:52:06 PM
By all accounts the South is doing a lot better than Britain so well capable of taking  80-100 refugees, followed off course by their extended family!

Can't afford 1.

Was the bailout just a dream? Shall I just work even harder to put food in more welfare mouths?

Not to mention putting them in cars, buying them houses, hair braiding, best clothes etc..
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: hardstation on January 06, 2017, 09:53:15 PM
I'd swap 80 refugees for you Fox. Anyday.

It won't stop at 80.

Cesspit.
And what? The poor cnuts are desperate and let's face it, Ireland won't be fcuked over the head of them anymore than we're fcuked over the head of ourselves.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on January 06, 2017, 09:58:58 PM
Ffs lads, ye should know better than to be replying to a troll like foxy by now

Any concerns some locals may have are dwarfed by the needs of these people. That said, I hope the govtare willing to spend cash on integration, services, etc for the refugees rather than just bunging them in a hotel and forgetting about them.

I presume Rochford will be down to see if there are any scoring forwards amongst them
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: bennydorano on January 06, 2017, 10:06:18 PM
Does Foxy not live in the USA?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Minder on January 06, 2017, 10:09:34 PM
This wee fella is one of the first ones that where settled here

http://www.itv.com/news/utv/2016-10-17/syrian-refugee-shining-as-young-gaa-player-in-belfast/
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on January 06, 2017, 10:11:32 PM
I'd swap 80 refugees for you Fox. Anyday.

It won't stop at 80.

Cesspit.
And what? The poor cnuts are desperate and let's face it, Ireland won't be fcuked over the head of them anymore than we're fcuked over the head of ourselves.

It is a disgrace that it's got to this point in the first place that these people have been displaced. The issue needs to be resolved in Syria, shifting people around is unsustainable.

But what if Turkey goes the same way? Then Egypt etc. - EU can take in everyone?

Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on January 06, 2017, 10:13:11 PM
Ffs lads, ye should know better than to be replying to a troll like foxy by now

Who said I'm trolling?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 06, 2017, 10:33:36 PM
It is a disgrace that it's got to this point in the first place that these people have been displaced. The issue needs to be resolved in Syria, shifting people around is unsustainable.

Just stop the war in Syria then? Damn! Why didn't anyone else think of that? Why don't you ring John Kerry and tell him your bright idea?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Syferus on January 06, 2017, 11:35:11 PM
Ffs lads, ye should know better than to be replying to a troll like foxy by now

Any concerns some locals may have are dwarfed by the needs of these people. That said, I hope the govtare willing to spend cash on integration, services, etc for the refugees rather than just bunging them in a hotel and forgetting about them.

I presume Rochford will be down to see if there are any scoring forwards amongst them

I don't get why a good poster like Eamonn gives him the oxygen he craves so readily.

They're all going to be playing for Western Gaels unfortunately Mac. The GAA is exactly the sort of avenue that should be used to involve the refugees in the community. They should be invited to take part.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Rossfan on January 06, 2017, 11:49:15 PM
I expect the UN  are funding a lot of this refugee settlement.
We
The GAA is one organisation that will integrate these people's kids into local society.
Hopefully they will all settle round Strokestown or Elphin when they get through the initiation phase.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: whitey on January 06, 2017, 11:51:08 PM
I expect the UN  are funding a lot of this refugee settlement.
We
The GAA is one organisation that will integrate these people's kids into local society.
Hopefully they will all settle round Strokestown or Elphin when they get through the initiation phase.

I heard Akram has them already locked in for the red and green
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: macdanger2 on January 07, 2017, 12:12:16 AM
Ffs lads, ye should know better than to be replying to a troll like foxy by now

Any concerns some locals may have are dwarfed by the needs of these people. That said, I hope the govtare willing to spend cash on integration, services, etc for the refugees rather than just bunging them in a hotel and forgetting about them.

I presume Rochford will be down to see if there are any scoring forwards amongst them

I don't get why a good poster like Eamonn gives him the oxygen he craves so readily.

They're all going to be playing for Western Gaels unfortunately Mac. The GAA is exactly the sort of avenue that should be used to involve the refugees in the community. They should be invited to take part.

Jaysus, from one war torn region to another
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: No wides on January 07, 2017, 10:59:24 AM
Ffs lads, ye should know better than to be replying to a troll like foxy by now

Who said I'm trolling?

All of the Gaaboard liberal club. Their definition of a troll is someone who doesnt agree with them. Pathetic really but there you have it orior will be on with some harlious quip in a bit.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: bennydorano on January 07, 2017, 12:55:25 PM
Most people contribute something interesting to the board at some point, I've yet to see anything from you bar sad & pathetic trolling. Just being a right wing gobshite isn't advancing any point or agenda, it's just being a gobshite. There are a few posters on this board who I would think aren't 'liberals' and would have views right of centre,  but they can argue a point in a rational way,  you're just a bit of a knob.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: No wides on January 07, 2017, 01:30:39 PM
Says the man who started a gaaboard purge thread to get rid of posters who doesnt share his views. Why dont you lads start a watsup group and cream off at all your highly intellectual liberial views.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: bennydorano on January 07, 2017, 03:21:21 PM
Surprised you didn't appreciate the non-liberal thinking behind it.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: No wides on January 07, 2017, 03:54:58 PM
By the way have you advanced many agendas with your posts here other than your own advancement of self importance?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Minder on January 07, 2017, 10:55:04 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/i/web/status/817863161810403329
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Rossfan on January 07, 2017, 11:20:13 PM
What a shower! >:(
I suppose they're  hoping people will come out to block the Syrians.
Why don't  those c**ts eff off to Syria and fight ISIS.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 07, 2017, 11:23:11 PM
What a shower! >:(
I suppose they're  hoping people will come out to block the Syrians.
Why don't  those c**ts eff off to Syria and fight ISIS.

Wouldn't fight for their own country! Hardly fight for others
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: lynchbhoy on January 08, 2017, 01:41:05 PM
Ffs lads, ye should know better than to be replying to a troll like foxy by now

Who said I'm trolling?

I understand your view on this being a bit OTT on the lily liberal front - especially when we have so many of our own here that urgently need help - aged, mentally unwell, homeless,  those being chased by banks to have their home repossessed,  unemployed etc

but just because the rest of the world didn't jump in to stop the persecution of the nationalist Irish in the north of Ireland... doesn't mean it's a bad thing.

az long as it's genuine refugees that we take in.
not those masquerading as refugees... yet are running gangs and extortion / criminal / thieving rackets in areas in West dublin estates.
am hearing plenty give out about hospitals and surgeries filled with new migtrant folk with medical cards clogging up hospital queues ahead of those on long term waiting lists... how could that be true !

anyhow I know you are sickened that southern folk are jumping on the 'refugee' bandwagon. .. but ignored their country folks in the northern crisis.
sticks in the craw. but they love to run away as long as they can procrastinate. 
but as long as genuine refugees are helped..It can't be that bad. just need our immigration dept to kick out the fake refugees. or back to their first euro point of entry. 
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Itchy on January 08, 2017, 10:06:27 PM
Ffs lads, ye should know better than to be replying to a troll like foxy by now

Who said I'm trolling?

I understand your view on this being a bit OTT on the lily liberal front - especially when we have so many of our own here that urgently need help - aged, mentally unwell, homeless,  those being chased by banks to have their home repossessed,  unemployed etc

but just because the rest of the world didn't jump in to stop the persecution of the nationalist Irish in the north of Ireland... doesn't mean it's a bad thing.

az long as it's genuine refugees that we take in.
not those masquerading as refugees... yet are running gangs and extortion / criminal / thieving rackets in areas in West dublin estates.
am hearing plenty give out about hospitals and surgeries filled with new migtrant folk with medical cards clogging up hospital queues ahead of those on long term waiting lists... how could that be true !

anyhow I know you are sickened that southern folk are jumping on the 'refugee' bandwagon. .. but ignored their country folks in the northern crisis.
sticks in the craw. but they love to run away as long as they can procrastinate. 
but as long as genuine refugees are helped..It can't be that bad. just need our immigration dept to kick out the fake refugees. or back to their first euro point of entry.

We've only taken in a small handful of "refugees". How could they possibly be clogging up hospitals and running gangs. There are possibly lots of foreign nationals involved in crimes but a foreign national is not always a refugee. Anyway thank god Ireland emigrants never consisted of criminals
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: lynchbhoy on January 08, 2017, 11:04:30 PM
I'm going by what I'm being told by lads I coach who are cops or work in blanch hospital as well as media reports

there is a lot more in the country other than those poor 80

we certainly didn't export criminals over to foreign countries en masse the way we are receiving them

you are an intelligent guy... you know the score

imo there needs to be proper and fast screening. the genuine refugees we should help.
the chancers and those intent on milking our easy system and indulging in crime (not hard to spot) need to be turned back asap.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Syferus on January 09, 2017, 12:22:41 AM
I'm going by what I'm being told by lads I coach who are cops or work in blanch hospital as well as media reports

there is a lot more in the country other than those poor 80

we certainly didn't export criminals over to foreign countries en masse the way we are receiving them

you are an intelligent guy... you know the score

imo there needs to be proper and fast screening. the genuine refugees we should help.
the chancers and those intent on milking our easy system and indulging in crime (not hard to spot) need to be turned back asap.

Australia.. if you want to talk perspective at least have some yourself.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Puckoon on January 09, 2017, 05:56:26 AM
I'm going by what I'm being told by lads I coach who are cops or work in blanch hospital as well as media reports

there is a lot more in the country other than those poor 80

we certainly didn't export criminals over to foreign countries en masse the way we are receiving them

you are an intelligent guy... you know the score

imo there needs to be proper and fast screening. the genuine refugees we should help.
the chancers and those intent on milking our easy system and indulging in crime (not hard to spot) need to be turned back asap.

Only going by what you're being told. Bless your heart you racist wee dote! 
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: No wides on January 09, 2017, 07:21:51 AM
I'm going by what I'm being told by lads I coach who are cops or work in blanch hospital as well as media reports

there is a lot more in the country other than those poor 80

we certainly didn't export criminals over to foreign countries en masse the way we are receiving them

you are an intelligent guy... you know the score

imo there needs to be proper and fast screening. the genuine refugees we should help.
the chancers and those intent on milking our easy system and indulging in crime (not hard to spot) need to be turned back asap.

Only going by what you're being told. Bless your heart you racist wee dote!

Lynchboy unless you are prepared to make the father of the grooms speech at your son wedding to Amira, the transgendered Syrian refugee, you are nothing short of a racist and homophobic, you need to get with modern life.  And any children Allah allows them to buy or adopt, they will have the luxury of growing up knowing that not getting any attention or any play time will mean they are rounded human beings and not spoilt little b**tards or little shits, but if they talk back ensure they are rebutted and punished immediately for the that is the way of the Qur'an.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: seafoid on January 09, 2017, 08:12:49 AM
I'm going by what I'm being told by lads I coach who are cops or work in blanch hospital as well as media reports

there is a lot more in the country other than those poor 80

we certainly didn't export criminals over to foreign countries en masse the way we are receiving them

you are an intelligent guy... you know the score

imo there needs to be proper and fast screening. the genuine refugees we should help.
the chancers and those intent on milking our easy system and indulging in crime (not hard to spot) need to be turned back asap.
Tammany Hall.was run by Irish thugs.
Criminality was rife in Irish immigrant communities in the US in the 19th century.
Over in Australia wasn't Ned Kelly Irish ?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Rossfan on January 09, 2017, 09:20:52 AM
There seems to be a few prize specimens knocking around the south of Spain these days ;)
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Mayo4Sam on January 09, 2017, 01:16:31 PM
80 Syrian refugees will be be housed at the Abbeyfield Hotel in Ballaghaderreen, looking at many of the comments on facebook it looks like some of the locals are not happy.

Call me uncharitable but surely the government should prioritise tacking the homeless situation in their own country first.
When every citizen has a place to lay their heads at night then we can move on to tacking the world's issues.
I can absolutely guarantee that 90% of the Irish people on the list for a house would not accept one in Ballaghdereen, that is part of the problem.

IMO anyone looking for a house should be offered the next suitable one (size wise) that comes up no matter where in the country it is and if they don't accept it then they can f**k off. We wouldn't be long sorting the crisis. The problem is that if its not down the road from where they grew up they don't want it.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on January 09, 2017, 02:20:54 PM
Australia.. if you want to talk perspective at least have some yourself.

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Yes, because Australia in 1791 is just like Ireland in 2017. A five month five star cruise to Sydney and benefits galore on arrival.




Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Avondhu star on January 09, 2017, 02:25:24 PM
I want a house near me Ma! Its me bleedin right
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: foxcommander on January 09, 2017, 03:09:34 PM
Ffs lads, ye should know better than to be replying to a troll like foxy by now

Who said I'm trolling?

All of the Gaaboard liberal club. Their definition of a troll is someone who doesnt agree with them. Pathetic really but there you have it orior will be on with some harlious quip in a bit.

Some folk have a need to believe that they are "making a difference" in the world by advocating forced integration. Waiting for some Nobel prize for their humanitarian efforts. The scammers are laughing up their sleeves of how gullible and stupid they are. They're being twisted in knots trying to please their guests and they are only too willing to accommodate, at the taxpayers expense.

They probably watched the Coca-Cola ad from the 1970's of all those different people singing together and believed that if we all drink the same fizzy pop that world problems would cease.

Absolutely no thought whatsoever of the problems the utopia in their tiny minds will cause for future generations. The destruction of ireland is safe in their hands.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Rossfan on January 09, 2017, 11:13:56 PM
I hear there was a great turn out tonight at the Ballagh welcomes refugees public meeting.
Well done and wouldn't expect anything less from my fellow warm hearted Rossies.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Syferus on January 11, 2017, 04:34:45 PM
http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/state-right-not-to-consult-ballaghaderreen-on-refugees-1.2931917

Patsy McGarry with a predictably great piece.

And before people sign into their dedicated troll accounts, he's from Ballagh and has always been a great friend to the town. Ballagh has been through a lot more than most towns and it will come out of this better than how it went it.

It's all well and good being shocked by the slow, murderous failure of a nation via news broadcasts but it's time we do a little bit ourselves to help. It's not that long ago we were the ones sending half our people out into the great unknown. This is a great opportunity for Ballagh to contribute to Irish society in a way other towns cannot or will not. To show that fear doesn't rule us.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Rossfan on January 11, 2017, 04:53:31 PM
Ros people usually do the right thing Syfīn.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: No wides on January 14, 2017, 12:53:41 PM
Horseshit imposing refugees upon a town can only create problems. How man here would be happy with a few familys moving into their precious developments. All chic liberal bullshit.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Rossfan on January 14, 2017, 01:33:33 PM
Stop talking about a town and an area you obviously know nothing about.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: JoG2 on January 14, 2017, 01:50:27 PM
Stop talking about a town and an area you obviously know nothing about.

'Stop talking' would be enough
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: stew on January 14, 2017, 02:32:10 PM
I wish the Irish government would take care of the homeless Irish people, you know, buy houses lying empty and house their own, then take care of refugees, but that's me!
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Kidder81 on January 14, 2017, 02:42:29 PM
I wish the Irish government would take care of the homeless Irish people, you know, buy houses lying empty and house their own, then take care of refugees, but that's me!

The homeless problem isn't just a matter of a roof over their head, a lot of them have severe, complex addiction problems, so it's not just as simple as housing them
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: No wides on January 14, 2017, 04:11:44 PM
Stop talking about a town and an area you obviously know nothing about.

Doesnt stop you talking about the north or other regions. Chic liberal horseshit.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Rossfan on January 14, 2017, 04:29:26 PM
Yaaaaawwwwwwnnnnnnn
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: No wides on January 14, 2017, 04:34:28 PM
Yaaaaawwwwwwnnnnnnn

Pathetic. Any more advice for how folk up north should vote?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Rossfan on January 14, 2017, 05:29:55 PM
You'll be voting UKIP no doubt.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: weareros on January 14, 2017, 06:17:09 PM
http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/state-right-not-to-consult-ballaghaderreen-on-refugees-1.2931917

Patsy McGarry with a predictably great piece.

And before people sign into their dedicated troll accounts, he's from Ballagh and has always been a great friend to the town. Ballagh has been through a lot more than most towns and it will come out of this better than how it went it.

It's all well and good being shocked by the slow, murderous failure of a nation via news broadcasts but it's time we do a little bit ourselves to help. It's not that long ago we were the ones sending half our people out into the great unknown. This is a great opportunity for Ballagh to contribute to Irish society in a way other towns cannot or will not. To show that fear doesn't rule us.

Good stuff by Patsy. One part reminds me of the story of his father, a local councilman, "the Haw" McGarry when a lost letter was found along the roads of Ballaghaderreen (mind you, where his cattle often ate from the long acre) that was written to the Queen of England and showed that the Haw had been in back and forth correspondence with the Queen talking about horses, farming and the like and had shockingly invited her to visit Ballaghaderreen and what a great welcome she'd get there. The lost letter was found and was sent to the local papers to expose what the Haw was up to. Of course it was all a setup by the man himself. It was always a town full of characters and how great to see that though it has little itself and high unemployment, it is now a shining light to the world in how to treat those less well off than ourselves.

Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Avondhu star on January 14, 2017, 07:59:53 PM
Stop talking about a town and an area you obviously know nothing about.

'Stop talking' would be enough
Even "Stop" would do.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Avondhu star on January 14, 2017, 08:02:43 PM
I wish the Irish government would take care of the homeless Irish people, you know, buy houses lying empty and house their own, then take care of refugees, but that's me!
How many thousand council houses in Britain were allocated to Irish families in the 50s and 60s?
How many homeless have you offered accommodation to?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: No wides on January 14, 2017, 08:39:40 PM
You'll be voting UKIP no doubt.

Stop talking about an area you know nothing about.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: No wides on January 14, 2017, 08:41:12 PM
I wish the Irish government would take care of the homeless Irish people, you know, buy houses lying empty and house their own, then take care of refugees, but that's me!
How many thousand council houses in Britain were allocated to Irish families in the 50s and 60s?
How many homeless have you offered accommodation to?

How many have you?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: JoG2 on January 14, 2017, 09:04:15 PM
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Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: stew on January 14, 2017, 11:29:44 PM
I wish the Irish government would take care of the homeless Irish people, you know, buy houses lying empty and house their own, then take care of refugees, but that's me!
How many thousand council houses in Britain were allocated to Irish families in the 50s and 60s?
How many homeless have you offered accommodation to?

Funnily enough a year ago it came on the radio that a lady in Volusia county in Florida was made homeless with her three children, I immediately called the police and offered my condo to her and her family and offered to sponsor their meals and the run if my car, I spoke to the officer handling the case and a day later got the word they had been given a house to live in right we're they were whuchcwad handier for the kids for school.

In short son, four people within about a year ago, and if it helps my neighbour lost his flat and spent two nights with me this week, he has moved on now, any other questions kid?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: No wides on January 15, 2017, 09:27:07 AM
Great post stew and fair play to you. We are still waiting on how many avondhu star has taken in, or maybe he is one of the chic liberals as long as it is not on their doorstep.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Syferus on January 15, 2017, 11:06:33 AM
Foxcommander/No wides are probably the same person.

Just sayin'.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: No wides on January 15, 2017, 11:58:49 AM
Check on bennys watsup group.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: laoislad on January 15, 2017, 12:11:07 PM
Ros people usually do the right thing Syfīn.

Unless they are voting on gay marriage.....
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: armaghniac on January 15, 2017, 12:14:31 PM
Ros people usually do the right thing Syfīn.

Unless they are voting on gay marriage.....

Their willingness to stand up for marriage reflects well on Rossies.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: J70 on January 15, 2017, 01:23:53 PM
I wish the Irish government would take care of the homeless Irish people, you know, buy houses lying empty and house their own, then take care of refugees, but that's me!
How many thousand council houses in Britain were allocated to Irish families in the 50s and 60s?
How many homeless have you offered accommodation to?

Funnily enough a year ago it came on the radio that a lady in Volusia county in Florida was made homeless with her three children, I immediately called the police and offered my condo to her and her family and offered to sponsor their meals and the run if my car, I spoke to the officer handling the case and a day later got the word they had been given a house to live in right we're they were whuchcwad handier for the kids for school.

In short son, four people within about a year ago, and if it helps my neighbour lost his flat and spent two nights with me this week, he has moved on now, any other questions kid?

Fair play to you stew on making your FL condo available to these people, but on your previous post, why should the needs of native homeless and refugees from war-torn regions be mutually exclusive? Are these refugees supposed to just sit and wait at whatever border or hellhole they're stuck in while all these relatively peaceful countries belatedly figure out what to do about their homeless population?
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: No wides on January 15, 2017, 01:33:28 PM
Ros people usually do the right thing Syfīn.

Unless they are voting on gay marriage.....

😁😁

Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Hardy on January 15, 2017, 02:24:21 PM
Stop talking about a town and an area you obviously know nothing about.

'Stop talking' would be enough
Even "Stop" would do.

May I recommend "Stop listening"?
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Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: No wides on January 15, 2017, 03:14:56 PM
Brillant from Hardy join a discussion board but only engage with like minded chic liberal bullshitters. Bet he has admin rights on bennys watsup group. Maybe benny an himself came up with the purge thread but hardy was too cute to actually run with it.😁
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: trileacman on January 15, 2017, 04:39:39 PM
Stop talking about a town and an area you obviously know nothing about.

'Stop talking' would be enough
Even "Stop" would do.

May I recommend "Stop listening"?
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 (http://s648.photobucket.com/user/Hardyarse/media/Ignore_zps2c6gkzvu.png.html)

Must do that, ive a couple of boys blocked. Works wonders.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: Avondhu star on January 15, 2017, 07:17:40 PM
Great post stew and fair play to you. We are still waiting on how many avondhu star has taken in, or maybe he is one of the chic liberals as long as it is not on their doorstep.

I've been too busy reversing a few mobile homes into the back yard
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: No wides on January 15, 2017, 07:48:04 PM
Great post stew and fair play to you. We are still waiting on how many avondhu star has taken in, or maybe he is one of the chic liberals as long as it is not on their doorstep.

I've been too busy reversing a few mobile homes into the back yard

You asked stew a direct question but refuse to answer the same question. Chic liberal bullshit. Oh by the way you are as funny as a kick to the stones.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: stew on January 15, 2017, 08:46:37 PM
Great post stew and fair play to you. We are still waiting on how many avondhu star has taken in, or maybe he is one of the chic liberals as long as it is not on their doorstep.

I've been too busy reversing a few mobile homes into the back yard

You asked stew a direct question but refuse to answer the same question. Chic liberal bullshit. Oh by the way you are as funny as a kick to the stones.

They are good at that, I was wondering which lib would bite as the question was easily anticipated, I think the term ' he crawled under a rock' comes to mind )
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: lynchbhoy on January 15, 2017, 09:50:12 PM
Australia.. if you want to talk perspective at least have some yourself.

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Yes, because Australia in 1791 is just like Ireland in 2017. A five month five star cruise to Sydney and benefits galore on arrival.

basset sssßs
Great post stew and fair play to you. We are still waiting on how many avondhu star has taken in, or maybe he is one of the chic liberals as long as it is not on their doorstep.

I've been too busy reversing a few mobile homes into the back yard

You asked stew a direct question but refuse to answer the same question. Chic liberal bullshit. Oh by the way you are as funny as a kick to the stones.

They are good at that, I was wondering which lib would bite as the question was easily anticipated, I think the term ' he crawled under a rock' comes to mind )

yes the Irish dissenters etc excommunicated to Australia and tasmania
plus the Irish criminal fraternity using their own ill gotten gains to buy their own pads in south of Spain
as well as some Irish families supposedly getting council houses in England. ..
yep thats just like giving Nigerians or whatever nationality welfare here when they are nowhere next or near actual refugees from war torn countries

at least the poor feckers from Syria deserve assistance
but it seems like further punishment putting them into a kip like roscommon

but I'm a racist etc etc for speaking g out that we need to look after our homeless and maybe those poor feckers that lost their homes and are still suffering the after effects of the downturn.

some shower of sanctimonious d1ckheads on here - yez would do fcuk all but pontificate .
at least I've actually done things to assist the foreign refugees! yes and they were black and Muslim! !! shock horror.
Title: Re: Refugees
Post by: No wides on January 16, 2017, 04:15:13 PM
Great post stew and fair play to you. We are still waiting on how many avondhu star has taken in, or maybe he is one of the chic liberals as long as it is not on their doorstep.

I've been too busy reversing a few mobile homes into the back yard

You asked stew a direct question but refuse to answer the same question. Chic liberal bullshit. Oh by the way you are as funny as a kick to the stones.

They are good at that, I was wondering which lib would bite as the question was easily anticipated, I think the term ' he crawled under a rock' comes to mind )

It's easy to be liberal when the issue doesn't affect you, he's another full off shite who is good at asking the questions but not so good at answering.