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GAA Discussion => Local GAA Discussion => Down => Topic started by: 5 Sams on October 06, 2014, 10:42:07 PM

Title: New Down talent.
Post by: 5 Sams on October 06, 2014, 10:42:07 PM
Right lads. McCorry has made a call for clubs to nominate players for the county panel for 2015. Yiz are all very quick to pass judgement on Wee James, Seán óg and Séamus Walsh behind your keyboards...so be constructive and let us know who are the new kids on the block who should be drafted in.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: DownFanatic on October 06, 2014, 11:12:59 PM
Pat Havern, Conleth O'Hare and Conaill McGovern have impressed me this year.

In the lower ranks Brian McIlmurray of Drumaness would be worth a trial. Very powerful midfielder.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: PAULD123 on October 07, 2014, 06:56:24 AM
I'm not sure that there are a load of new players to be found. I think the drafting in is more from the squad of young players already  there onto the actual first fifteen. I think these players should be worthy of pushing for a place:

Caolan Mooney
Jerome Johnston
Ryan Johnston
Paul Devlin
Niall McEvoy
Ryan Boyle
Ciaran McCartan
Conor Poland
Connor Toner
Shay McCardle
Niall McParland (if fit)
Darragh O'Hanlon

The players I would like to see retained in the starting lineup from the existing team - Laverty, Gordon, McKernan, Garvey, O'Hagan, Mallon.

Some players I would like to see step back a bit from the first team but be kept in reserve to play from the bench if they were willing to take such a role - Poland, Maginn, Coulter, Turley, Carr, Ambrose, Madine, O'Hare

And of course the return of Marty and Paul McComiskey
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: God14 on October 07, 2014, 08:26:46 AM
When you look at that there is serious Talent in Down. Be interesting to see the impact Caolan Mooney makes, incredible underage player.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: Walter Cronc on October 07, 2014, 09:14:03 AM
Potentially I think Ryan Johnson is the best of that bunch!
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: pauly2 on October 07, 2014, 11:18:26 AM
I would like to see Danny Savage, Timmy Hanna, Connaire Harrison, Conor Doyle, Ciaran MC Cartan, Conaill Mc govern, Eamon Toner, Pat Havern, Liam Bagnall, Gerard Mc Govern, Ryan Johnston, Stephen Kane, Darragh O'Hanlon all getting a shot.
Conor Maginn should be a regular starter for the county team and the poster who has him as a bit part player above should go watch some bryansford games to see how effective he is. 
I would cut my losses with Dan Gordon, Ambrose, Liam Doyle, Brendan Mc Ardle, Dan Mc Cartan - all good players and have had a great run at it - but its time to go to pastures new. 
I would also have serious question marks over - Kevin Mc Kernan, Conor Garvey, Declan Rooney, Mark Poland - again all good players but the spark was missing with them this season at club level and this is the platform where they need to perform in order to be meriting a call up to county seniors IMO.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: elk on October 07, 2014, 12:30:00 PM
I think if Mc Corry wants teams to put forward names he could end up with a list the lenght of his arm. He should already know what players fulfil his requirements in division one so maybe his team and himself should take a look and focus on what has been overlooked in the lower divisions - starting with the Intermediate and Junior finals this weekend. Difinitely think it is time for the County to trust in the young players coming through at club level and try to help develop them as county standard players over the next couple of years.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: Brick Tamlin on October 07, 2014, 12:50:01 PM
The problem goes beyond senior players.
Complete review needs to be had of the infrastructure for football development in Down from underage upwards.
Systems in place, personnel in place, the coaching structure, education of coaches etc.
This thread will just serve as a vehicle for people to throw their bias out there with all names under the sun being mentioned.

Ye could mention 100s of names who 'deserve' a shot at the senior panel, but if truth be told, the talent ID process (if it was implemented properly) from development squads and schools football should have already identified 85% of candidates that have the required toolset required to play intercounty standard. Of course there will be that percentage of players that are late developers, or have slipped through the net, or have come out of nowhere to be contenders, but by and large if the structures were in place there wouldn't need to be a widespread scouring of the county for trialists. The bulk should be known to the powers that be before now. In fact id go as far as saying that there should be a dossier of sorts on players that have went through the system from a young age.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: johnneycool on October 07, 2014, 01:41:42 PM
The problem goes beyond senior players.
Complete review needs to be had of the infrastructure for football development in Down from underage upwards.
Systems in place, personnel in place, the coaching structure, education of coaches etc.
This thread will just serve as a vehicle for people to throw their bias out there with all names under the sun being mentioned.

Ye could mention 100s of names who 'deserve' a shot at the senior panel, but if truth be told, the talent ID process (if it was implemented properly) from development squads and schools football should have already identified 85% of candidates that have the required toolset required to play intercounty standard. Of course there will be that percentage of players that are late developers, or have slipped through the net, or have come out of nowhere to be contenders, but by and large if the structures were in place there wouldn't need to be a widespread scouring of the county for trialists. The bulk should be known to the powers that be before now. In fact id go as far as saying that there should be a dossier of sorts on players that have went through the system from a young age.

Whilst there is a bit of an admin overhead in this process I think its only right that if we're going to select individuals for development squads we need to understand what are the basic building blocks of a senior intercounty hurler/footballer, assess each individual against this criteria, highlight their strengths weaknesses and put in place programs to assist in the development of said youngsters.

What we have at the minute is very much coaching by numbers where each and every youngster is put through the same rigmarole with little or no thought for the individuals needs.

Granted resources are limited, but a little thought and forward planning can take you a long way with very little additional cost.

I'm basing my observations on what I've witnessed with hurling development squads and talking to those who assist in them, but as its the same overall co-ordinator I presume the football ones are off a similar nature.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: PAULD123 on October 08, 2014, 08:53:25 AM
I understand the point that Connor Maginn has a lot to offer the county. I just think we have six forwards who it would be better to build with going forward. If we keep players in their early twenties on the bench they will just lose interest and we will have no one to replace the likes of Connor Maginn, Benny, Ambrose.... when they retire. I'm not saying that the other players will instantly be better but I believe they will be better in the long-term. That is the reason I would certainly want the likes of Mark Poland and Connor Maginn to stick around and play considerable parts of games to bring experience when needed.

But for my mind I think the ideal six forwards would be:

Connor Laverty, Marty Clarke, Ryan Johnson,
Jerome Johnson, Caolan Mooney, Paul McComiskey

That forward line could be around for three years or more and still only be reaching its peak. But of course if any of them were injured/suspended/or even having a bad game then Connor Maginn would be an obvious choice to be given an opportunity to claim a place.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: imagine on October 08, 2014, 10:45:44 AM
I understand the point that Connor Maginn has a lot to offer the county. I just think we have six forwards who it would be better to build with going forward. If we keep players in their early twenties on the bench they will just lose interest and we will have no one to replace the likes of Connor Maginn, Benny, Ambrose.... when they retire. I'm not saying that the other players will instantly be better but I believe they will be better in the long-term. That is the reason I would certainly want the likes of Mark Poland and Connor Maginn to stick around and play considerable parts of games to bring experience when needed.

But for my mind I think the ideal six forwards would be:

Connor Laverty, Marty Clarke, Ryan Johnson,
Jerome Johnson, Caolan Mooney, Paul McComiskey

That forward line could be around for three years or more and still only be reaching its peak. But of course if any of them were injured/suspended/or even having a bad game then Connor Maginn would be an obvious choice to be given an opportunity to claim a place.

    How many people on here have actually seen Caolan Mooney play Football?
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: charlieTully on October 08, 2014, 10:54:49 AM
Any players selected should commit fully. Not hang around for the league then head of to america before championship time. What is the point in joining a panal in the knowledge you will be leaving.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: Brick Tamlin on October 08, 2014, 11:05:26 AM
I understand the point that Connor Maginn has a lot to offer the county. I just think we have six forwards who it would be better to build with going forward. If we keep players in their early twenties on the bench they will just lose interest and we will have no one to replace the likes of Connor Maginn, Benny, Ambrose.... when they retire. I'm not saying that the other players will instantly be better but I believe they will be better in the long-term. That is the reason I would certainly want the likes of Mark Poland and Connor Maginn to stick around and play considerable parts of games to bring experience when needed.

But for my mind I think the ideal six forwards would be:

Connor Laverty, Marty Clarke, Ryan Johnson,
Jerome Johnson, Caolan Mooney, Paul McComiskey

That forward line could be around for three years or more and still only be reaching its peak. But of course if any of them were injured/suspended/or even having a bad game then Connor Maginn would be an obvious choice to be given an opportunity to claim a place.

    How many people on here have actually seen Caolan Mooney play Football?

What ware you getting at?
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: Aristo 60 on October 08, 2014, 11:30:16 AM
I understand the point that Connor Maginn has a lot to offer the county. I just think we have six forwards who it would be better to build with going forward. If we keep players in their early twenties on the bench they will just lose interest and we will have no one to replace the likes of Connor Maginn, Benny, Ambrose.... when they retire. I'm not saying that the other players will instantly be better but I believe they will be better in the long-term. That is the reason I would certainly want the likes of Mark Poland and Connor Maginn to stick around and play considerable parts of games to bring experience when needed.

But for my mind I think the ideal six forwards would be:

Connor Laverty, Marty Clarke, Ryan Johnson,
Jerome Johnson, Caolan Mooney, Paul McComiskey

That forward line could be around for three years or more and still only be reaching its peak. But of course if any of them were injured/suspended/or even having a bad game then Connor Maginn would be an obvious choice to be given an opportunity to claim a place.

    How many people on here have actually seen Caolan Mooney play Football?

Saw him in Ennis.  Didn't have a big influence on the game that day but massive pace, quick hands and good direct running.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: imagine on October 08, 2014, 12:26:14 PM
I understand the point that Connor Maginn has a lot to offer the county. I just think we have six forwards who it would be better to build with going forward. If we keep players in their early twenties on the bench they will just lose interest and we will have no one to replace the likes of Connor Maginn, Benny, Ambrose.... when they retire. I'm not saying that the other players will instantly be better but I believe they will be better in the long-term. That is the reason I would certainly want the likes of Mark Poland and Connor Maginn to stick around and play considerable parts of games to bring experience when needed.

But for my mind I think the ideal six forwards would be:

Connor Laverty, Marty Clarke, Ryan Johnson,
Jerome Johnson, Caolan Mooney, Paul McComiskey

That forward line could be around for three years or more and still only be reaching its peak. But of course if any of them were injured/suspended/or even having a bad game then Connor Maginn would be an obvious choice to be given an opportunity to claim a place.

    How many people on here have actually seen Caolan Mooney play Football?

What ware you getting at?
    Quite simply asking who has actually seen Caolan play?   
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: Mourne Rover on October 08, 2014, 12:40:14 PM
Many of us have seen him play for Down minors, for St Colman's and at underage level for Rostrevor when his potential was unmistakeable. He made his senior debut for Down as a second half sub against Antrim at Casement Park in a 2011 qualifier, scored a brilliant goal fairly quickly and looked to have a fine understanding with Marty Clarke. He did not make as much impact coming off the bench in the subsequent qualifiers against Clare and Cork that summer, but he was only 18 at the time. His pace is probably his biggest asset and he was also a good finisher before he went to Australia, but he will obvious need time to re-adjust after his return. It would be a surprise if he is not in our full forward line this summer, but there will be plenty of competition for places and it would be premature to write off the likes of Ambrose and Poland at this stage.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: mb80b60 on October 08, 2014, 12:41:46 PM
Would Jamie O'Reilly be worth a try also?  How did he play for his club this year?
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: PAULD123 on October 08, 2014, 05:33:33 PM
As Mourne Rover said I saw Caolan play for St Colmans, Down Minors, Rostrevor reserves and twice for Down Seniors. At 18 he was already good enough to be a Down senior.

I know you will say school football is just school football but he was  a star in a team that included Shay McCardle, Shay McCartan, Ryan Johnson, Jerome Johnson, Donal O'Hare, and Niall McParland. Of those players, and we are talking about some of the best prospects in the county's future, Mooney stood out as even that little bit better.

Since then he has had three years professional athletic training.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: mccool85 on October 08, 2014, 09:06:28 PM
Mooney actually made his debut against Clare, not Antrim, and he started left half forward. I thought he was Down's best player in a poor team display. They played Antrim in the round after that.

As for next season, hopefully McCorry will get a few more of the Kilcoo boys to commit. Niall Brannigan may be small but he's the best corner back in Down and has a nasty side that the likes of Benny McArdle don't have. Darragh O'Hanlon and Paul Devlin should be given more minutes while Ryan Johnston should be an automatic starter.

Conaill McGovern, Gerard McGovern and Eamon Toner should look the best from that Burren side other than O'Hare.

Hopefully it's the end for Dan McCartan, Benny McArdle, Aidan Carr and Ryan Boyle. Boyle wouldn't even be in the top 5 players in the point side. Mark Poland shouldn't be an automatic starter, a passenger far too often.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: elk on October 08, 2014, 09:22:44 PM
Mooney actually made his debut against Clare, not Antrim, and he started left half forward. I thought he was Down's best player in a poor team display. They played Antrim in the round after that.

As for next season, hopefully McCorry will get a few more of the Kilcoo boys to commit. Niall Brannigan may be small but he's the best corner back in Down and has a nasty side that the likes of Benny McArdle don't have. Darragh O'Hanlon and Paul Devlin should be given more minutes while Ryan Johnston should be an automatic starter.

Conaill McGovern, Gerard McGovern and Eamon Toner should look the best from that Burren side other than O'Hare.

Hopefully it's the end for Dan McCartan, Benny McArdle, Aidan Carr and Ryan Boyle. Boyle wouldn't even be in the top 5 players in the point side. Mark Poland shouldn't be an automatic starter, a passenger far too often.
Find it hard to believe that a Down player wouldn't be in the top 5 in an Intermediate side.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: PAULD123 on October 09, 2014, 12:18:13 AM
It's  not very often a player who is not in his club's top five is selected as the captain. Maybe you should have another think about that.

Or maybe you are saying there should be half a dozen Warrenpoint players on the Down side. Not sure what point you were trying to make exactly
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: general on October 09, 2014, 08:35:25 AM
Mark Poland shouldn't be an automatic starter, a passenger far too often.

i disagree with this completely

Hopefully it's the end for Dan McCartan, Benny McArdle, Aidan Carr and Ryan Boyle

Barring Dan, the other 3 should have a big part to play in the county, We arent graced with great defenders, Benny is one of the better ones. Aidan Carr can have some kind of role to play, be it a squad player, ryan boyle came through all development squads,minor, under 21, just finished his 1st, maybe 2nd season with the county? He will be there for years to come
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: Brick Tamlin on October 09, 2014, 09:19:51 AM
Mooney actually made his debut against Clare, not Antrim, and he started left half forward. I thought he was Down's best player in a poor team display. They played Antrim in the round after that.

As for next season, hopefully McCorry will get a few more of the Kilcoo boys to commit. Niall Brannigan may be small but he's the best corner back in Down and has a nasty side that the likes of Benny McArdle don't have. Darragh O'Hanlon and Paul Devlin should be given more minutes while Ryan Johnston should be an automatic starter.

Conaill McGovern, Gerard McGovern and Eamon Toner should look the best from that Burren side other than O'Hare.

Hopefully it's the end for Dan McCartan, Benny McArdle, Aidan Carr and Ryan Boyle. Boyle wouldn't even be in the top 5 players in the point side. Mark Poland shouldn't be an automatic starter, a passenger far too often.

Id love to hear who the 5 better players are in the Point side. Are we missing something here, do they have 5 other players playing for them that Wee James missed out on?
Silly season definitely in full flight when ye hear of names being bandied about and the names of other fellas that should be given the chop. Why would it hopefully be the end for Dan McCartan, Benny McArdle, Aoidan Carr & Boyle? Why would ye hope that? You are really saying that those 4 or 5 fellas would offer nothing to our senior squad next year?
Feckin eejit
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: imagine on October 09, 2014, 09:30:45 AM
Mooney actually made his debut against Clare, not Antrim, and he started left half forward. I thought he was Down's best player in a poor team display. They played Antrim in the round after that.

As for next season, hopefully McCorry will get a few more of the Kilcoo boys to commit. Niall Brannigan may be small but he's the best corner back in Down and has a nasty side that the likes of Benny McArdle don't have. Darragh O'Hanlon and Paul Devlin should be given more minutes while Ryan Johnston should be an automatic starter.

Conaill McGovern, Gerard McGovern and Eamon Toner should look the best from that Burren side other than O'Hare.

Hopefully it's the end for Dan McCartan, Benny McArdle, Aidan Carr and Ryan Boyle. Boyle wouldn't even be in the top 5 players in the point side. Mark Poland shouldn't be an automatic starter, a passenger far too often.

Id love to hear who the 5 better players are in the Point side. Are we missing something here, do they have 5 other players playing for them that Wee James missed out on?
Silly season definitely in full flight when ye hear of names being bandied about and the names of other fellas that should be given the chop. Why would it hopefully be the end for Dan McCartan, Benny McArdle, Aoidan Carr & Boyle? Why would ye hope that? You are really saying that those 4 or 5 fellas would offer nothing to our senior squad next year?
Feckin eejit
Brick,it's time you gave this thread the craic you gave to the "Weddings and Women thread"  I'd love to  hear suggestions for someone that could replace Mark Poland in what he does for Down.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: A man from Down on October 09, 2014, 10:15:11 AM
Some absolute boll0cks being talked on here.

It is an exciting time for our county given the appointment of a new manager who was always the standout candidate. We all hope he brings a few more of those tenacious Kilcoo men in but no doubt he will also be looking at new players from other clubs who have performed well against his Kilcoo side in the past couple of seasons and also a few from the lower divisions. But for people to question the ability or inclusion of Mark Poland is ridiculous. Since Clarke went back to Oz Poland has been our playmaker, and the man other teams have feared in our forward line. This has been evident in the last two years when other teams have simply man marked him and singled him out for extra attention much in the same way Benny was treated by the opposition 6 or 7 years ago. If Marty Clarke does commit you will probably get to see Poland getting less attention and showing his ability.

As for people questioning the likes of Carr, Dan McCartan, Dan Gordan, McKernan, Garvey , Benny McArdle it is crazy. These men have been coached, conditioned and are at the peak of their powers in terms of the experience they have playing at county level and this will be invaluable. A blend of youth and experience is very much an advantage for any senior manager and we are lucky that at present we have that.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: Aristo 60 on October 22, 2014, 04:22:29 PM
Regardless of new talent I'd like Benny to stick around for another year and hope he throws his hat back into the ring come Christmas.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: Shamrocks Gaelp on October 22, 2014, 09:44:23 PM
Did anyone see caolan mooney play against us in the U21's on Sunday? Heard he scored 1-2 but also heard he missed a bucket load of chances! Anyone care to tell me what really happened? I Alps think that mccorry should be looking to division 2 for possible new talent for McKenna cup. He should be considering key players from teams like Saul, CPN, ballymartin and clann na banna or the kingdom.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: charlieTully on October 23, 2014, 10:01:12 AM
Some absolute boll0cks being talked on here.

It is an exciting time for our county given the appointment of a new manager who was always the standout candidate. We all hope he brings a few more of those tenacious Kilcoo men in but no doubt he will also be looking at new players from other clubs who have performed well against his Kilcoo side in the past couple of seasons and also a few from the lower divisions. But for people to question the ability or inclusion of Mark Poland is ridiculous. Since Clarke went back to Oz Poland has been our playmaker, and the man other teams have feared in our forward line. This has been evident in the last two years when other teams have simply man marked him and singled him out for extra attention much in the same way Benny was treated by the opposition 6 or 7 years ago. If Marty Clarke does commit you will probably get to see Poland getting less attention and showing his ability.

As for people questioning the likes of Carr, Dan McCartan, Dan Gordan, McKernan, Garvey , Benny McArdle it is crazy. These men have been coached, conditioned and are at the peak of their powers in terms of the experience they have playing at county level and this will be invaluable. A blend of youth and experience is very much an advantage for any senior manager and we are lucky that at present we have that.

who exactly from kilcoo would you like to see that havnt alreadly been given a try with the county?
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: PAULD123 on October 28, 2014, 12:55:18 PM
Apart from Niall McEvoy the best Kilcoo players are in the county squad, that's true. But perhaps "A man from Down" meant he hoped McCorry will bring a few more Kilcoo player into the actual starting team.

I too would like to see Ryan Johnson, Jerome Johnson, Paul Devlin and Darragh O'Hanlon as regular starters for Down as they are the players that we could expect to see going forward for the next 5-10 years.

It's not that I think McCartan, Carr, McCardle are bad player but I don't see the current team winning any titles and if we wait till they are totally done these other younger players will all be mid/late-twenties and we will only be developing them in the county team in time for them to have no more than five years maximum. Also how many will wait that long to get a regular spot?

If we start to build the team with Ryan Johnson, Jerome Johnson, Mooney, Devlin, Boyle, Mallon, Ciaran McCartan, Marty Clarke, McComiskey, Hanna, Costello, McEvoy then we will have a team that will be physically at its peak in 2-3 seasons and also will have that experience under their belts. The other players should not be disposed with but they should be asked to play in such a way that helps the transition.

Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on October 28, 2014, 01:26:26 PM
Lads would young Ryan O'Hare from Ballymartin cut it at senior level for Down?  I always thought he has serious ability and pace and could be a James McCartan type player. 
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: Brick Tamlin on October 28, 2014, 02:14:04 PM
No. Couldn't do it when it mattered most for his club in championship final.
Id be expecting an intercounty player to show up in an intermediate final or at intermediate level. He didn't.
Has all the ingredients, but there have been several Ryan O'Hares in Down throughout the years.
If he does the business on a regular basis against the top defenders in Down football then yeah id say he deserves a shot.

Pauld123 you have named some serious lightweight players there.
On another note, James McCartan by and large had the best players on the panel. Some guys you named to backbone the future teams haven't even proven they're up to it yet at intercounty level. Jury still out on a lot of them and also question marks over others ye have named. Ye just cant come in and dismantle any semblance of a team that Wee James built and decide to bin a load of players ffs. Potential is one thing, delivering on it is a completely different thing altogether.
You my friend are romanticising about some players because what they might have done a few years ago at underage/school level and also what you see the odd time for their clubs (against questionable opposition) in a lot of cases.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: PAULD123 on October 29, 2014, 03:34:34 PM
Brick, many of those players are not huge men, that is true. But we don't have any Michael Murphys or Kieran Donaghys. That is the best talent in the county as I see it. I would be opposed to leaving a good small player on the bench for the sake of a less talented player just because he was a big lad. And McComiskey seemed to get on OK against the big defenders of Cork in the All-Ireland final.

Also Mooney and Clarke are not light-weight, Ryan Johnson is not short, Mallon is not lightweight, and Devlin is bigger than Mark Poland.

As for proving themselves at inter-county football - haven't you just set up a catch 22 requirement:

But they certainly have proven themselves at club level and I have named some of the top performers in our club game. Often these lads are out-performing the county players who have established themselves.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: Brick Tamlin on October 29, 2014, 04:09:30 PM
I never said they weren't given a chance to prove themselves. A lot of them were given chances, and to be fair haven't shone as brightly as ye would hope.
Also I am in no way advocating physique over skill. Still remains though that a good biggun will be more useful than a good wean.
Only time will tell if they can cut the mustard.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: downup on October 30, 2014, 11:05:17 AM
I went to a few County U21 matches this year and last year and unfortunately these lads that have been mentioned just did not count against other county players at their own age level in these games. Maybe Mc Corry can get more out of them but for me they suit club football but are just not up to it at county level. I agree that skill is vital but it takes a certain type of smallish player to be able to cut it at county level and keep taking the hits whilst also being able to be composed on the ball and play their best football. The jury is out on this regard but as I say maybe Mc Corry can work something.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: Down Follower on October 30, 2014, 04:37:56 PM
Regeneration is always flexible. With Clarke/Fitzpatrick and hopefully McComiskey back we are going back to the players we had 4-5 years ago. However, with Coulter/Hughes/Rodgers etc all spending less time on the field of play, new blood is needed. We havent really had a settled team since 2011/12 when were regularly getting to Croke Park. Since then its been some players out/some in/injuries/retirements etc etc.
McCorry is not there for a quick fix (I hope). We will be competitive straight away, I think thats a given. How succesful we will be depends on the 'New Down Talent'. There is always talent in Down, it takes something else to turn that into a good intercounty player.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: PAULD123 on October 31, 2014, 09:47:42 AM
I went to a few County U21 matches this year and last year and unfortunately these lads that have been mentioned just did not count against other county players at their own age level in these games. Maybe Mc Corry can get more out of them but for me they suit club football but are just not up to it at county level. I agree that skill is vital but it takes a certain type of smallish player to be able to cut it at county level and keep taking the hits whilst also being able to be composed on the ball and play their best football. The jury is out on this regard but as I say maybe Mc Corry can work something.

Our U21 setup has been a disaster for several years now. I don't think you can judge players when they have been thrown together for a few weeks and maybe only play one match. It is hardly the most cohesive squad. Club performance is a far better indicator because that is a cohesive regular squad. As for performances, Jerome Johnson has shown pretty well in the county colours when given a chance. Ryan Johnson was influential against Tyrone then promptly dumped, Mallon proved himself well enough in the league, Marty Clarke and McComiskey have very much proved themselves as inter-county footballers. Mooney hasn't been here since he was 18 so hardly fair to ask what he has done in county colours but is a professional athlete.

Some of the others need to be developed but is the theory that unless a player arrives better than the much older player in the team he should just be dispensed with? That is a bit short-sighted. I remember Miceal Magill's first game for Down. He had a shocker. But he went on to win an All-Ireland and an All-star. But if we worked on some of the basis I have heard here then Brendan McKernan would still have been our corner back in 1994.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: Mourne Rover on October 31, 2014, 01:15:33 PM
PaulD, most of the points you make are reasonable but your suggestion that Ryan Johnston was `promptly dumped' after the Tyrone replay is a strange way of putting it. He actually flew off on a foreign holiday, which may well have been for family reasons but is not what is expected of a county footballer in the middle of the championship season. He was therefore unavailable for the Leitrim qualifier but returned for the Kildare defeat. Johnston clearly has potential, and he can be expected to get a run of matches under McCorry.

Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: rosskarr on October 31, 2014, 02:11:13 PM
The usual close season drivel and speculation.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: PAULD123 on November 01, 2014, 07:49:18 AM
The usual close season drivel and speculation.

Bit of a pointless post there. Of course it is speculation. This is a forum for opinions so clearly everything said here is just opinions.

As regarding Ryan Johnston, what I really meant was that he really helped turn the first game in Omagh and then was dumped back on the bench for the start of the replay. I think he had proven that he deserved a start.

But I do agree that a full forward line of Laverty - J. Johnston - McComiskey would look very small, although it would also have a lot of speed and skill. However if Mooney plays full forward then he is capable of fielding decent ball. And a half forward line with Marty Clarke and Ryan Johnston would have decent height to support the midfield. Currently we have Laverty, Poland and O'Hare in the team and they are all small.

I don't think Madine has quite done enough, but then in fairness I also don't think he has been utilised properly as a fielding full forward laying balls off to incoming corner forwards. Laverty is used to field, which seems crazy to me. It should be the other way around. So I would hope that Madine could be made into a genuine full-forward but if so, I think he would be the traditional type.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: our_fella on November 01, 2014, 09:36:08 AM
Is it just me, or do Down seem to be void of "big men"? Seen back of Irish News yday where Armagh have recalled few players who left panel, who are all 6ft+ and can handle themselves. Same with the new men on the panel it seems.  Are we holding too many wee men on our squad?
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: rosskarr on November 01, 2014, 09:46:11 AM
The usual close season drivel and speculation.

Bit of a pointless post there. Of course it is speculation. This is a forum for opinions so clearly everything said here is just opinions.

As regarding Ryan Johnston, what I really meant was that he really helped turn the first game in Omagh and then was dumped back on the bench for the start of the replay. I think he had proven that he deserved a start.

But I do agree that a full forward line of Laverty - J. Johnston - McComiskey would look very small, although it would also have a lot of speed and skill. However if Mooney plays full forward then he is capable of fielding decent ball. And a half forward line with Marty Clarke and Ryan Johnston would have decent height to support the midfield. Currently we have Laverty, Poland and O'Hare in the team and they are all small.

I don't think Madine has quite done enough, but then in fairness I also don't think he has been utilised properly as a fielding full forward laying balls off to incoming corner forwards. Laverty is used to field, which seems crazy to me. It should be the other way around. So I would hope that Madine could be made into a genuine full-forward but if so, I think he would be the traditional type.
I suppose you're right but just a bit of frustration at our lack or progress for 20 odd years bar the
the unexpected run to the Final in 2010. Our Senior Club champions have done nothing since Burren in the 80's and this year was no different. Depressing stuff all round.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: whitegoodman on November 01, 2014, 12:35:44 PM
From what I remember Mooney always played in the half forward line which I think suits him better.  A half forward line of R Johnston (if he isn't on holiday that wk) Clarke and Mooney would provide pace, size, power and athleticism on the wings and the playmaker in the centre.  Mooney and Johnston would also offer an option for kick outs given they both are over 6ft and have great leaps.

I would always be of the opinion that you can only afford to have 2 "small" forwards in your team.  That would mean that two from Laverty, J Johnston, O Hare and McComiskey would play depending on who is showing the best form and producing the most scores.  That leaves a target man which we have struggled to produce since Benny was in his pomp.  I agree with PaulD that Madine has not quite been the answer but he is still young.  The trouble is what are the other options?  Eamon Toner? I am struggling to think of stand over full fowards in Down club football.

The other problem McCorry will need to solve is the full back line.  We desperately need to find corner backs and a stand out full back.  Niall Brannigan is a great wee corner back but is he too small?possibly.  Is he too rash, probably.  Darren O Hagan is also a great corner back when fit but the problem is that's not often enough. If you could clone Dan Gordon he would probably be ideal for FB and midfield but the need is probably greater at midfield at the min.  The other options at FB have mostly been tried with varying degrees of success but none have ultimately been the answer.

Half back is fine with plenty of options with Garvey, Rooney, Turley, C McCartan, Boyle, B McArdle and being viable options.  I'd go with Gordon and McKernan at midfield as I think McKernans most consistent year was two years ago at midfield when he had the freedom to play his own game without having to think about his defensive responsibility.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: Shamrocks Gaelp on November 01, 2014, 02:02:40 PM
                 Shane Harrison


  Gearard          Benny             Darren
McGovern       McArdle         O'Hagan


   Niall                Aidan            Kevin
McEvoy              Carr          McKernan


              Dan               Conor
            Gordon            Toner


   Caolan           Marty             Ryan
  Mooney         Clarke         Johnston

 Donal             Eamonn         Conor
O'Hare              Toner           Laverty

During the first page of this thread, I took the liberty to create this team that I am hopeful will be te starting line up next year. However, there are lots of queries. Firstly, the goalkeeping battle is more than likely a straight up fight between Harrison and Cunningham, but Steven Kane could be thrown into the equation. Next, the full back line is the hardest to decide. Gearard McGovern is a strong, good ball carrying full back but he might not have the pace for corner back and he doesnt have much experience outside of club or U21, but he did win Queens freshers player of the year a while ago. The halfback line is also odd, but McEvoy has to be an automatic choice. In midfield, I was impressed by Conor Toners passing and ball carrying during the championship, but he wasn't putstanding for the club. Dan Gordon has to be there as the catcher whilst either toner or Mckernan can bring in the running and playmaking aspect. Lastly, both half and full forward lines are hard. Having to exclude both Conor Maginn and Poland will be hard and no one is sure whether Clarke will commit. However Ryan Johnston has to be in there as a link man between half back and half forward, maybe deployed as a sweeper. Also, O'Hare can no longer be an automatic choice, as he has the tendency to slip in and out of games, but on his St he is a live wire forward. Full forward is a real task. Niall Madine fits the bill and he has good patches last year but wasn't great during the Ulster championship. Eamonn Toner looked like the only player to scare the kilcoo full back line in the final and he needs a shot with that squad.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: wobbller on November 01, 2014, 03:15:01 PM
                 Shane Harrison


  Gearard          Benny             Darren
McGovern       McArdle         O'Hagan


   Niall                Aidan            Kevin
McEvoy              Carr          McKernan


              Dan               Conor
            Gordon            Toner


   Caolan           Marty             Ryan
  Mooney         Clarke         Johnston

 Donal             Eamonn         Conor
O'Hare              Toner           Laverty

During the first page of this thread, I took the liberty to create this team that I am hopeful will be te starting line up next year. However, there are lots of queries. Firstly, the goalkeeping battle is more than likely a straight up fight between Harrison and Cunningham, but Steven Kane could be thrown into the equation. Next, the full back line is the hardest to decide. Gearard McGovern is a strong, good ball carrying full back but he might not have the pace for corner back and he doesnt have much experience outside of club or U21, but he did win Queens freshers player of the year a while ago. The halfback line is also odd, but McEvoy has to be an automatic choice. In midfield, I was impressed by Conor Toners passing and ball carrying during the championship, but he wasn't putstanding for the club. Dan Gordon has to be there as the catcher whilst either toner or Mckernan can bring in the running and playmaking aspect. Lastly, both half and full forward lines are hard. Having to exclude both Conor Maginn and Poland will be hard and no one is sure whether Clarke will commit. However Ryan Johnston has to be in there as a link man between half back and half forward, maybe deployed as a sweeper. Also, O'Hare can no longer be an automatic choice, as he has the tendency to slip in and out of games, but on his St he is a live wire forward. Full forward is a real task. Niall Madine fits the bill and he has good patches last year but wasn't great during the Ulster championship. Eamonn Toner looked like the only player to scare the kilcoo full back line in the final and he needs a shot with that squad.
  Not bad to start with if all these men commit.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: elk on November 01, 2014, 09:12:47 PM
donal o hare might kick the odd free but he doesnt cotribute enough from play. I think the likes of cory  quinn or donnagh mc aleenan  are better options for the future of down
 
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: supersub on November 02, 2014, 11:46:41 AM
For the future yeah, not now.

In relation to Caolan Mooney - you ask who has seen him play football? Given that a month ago he had played around 3 games in 3 years it would be hard to see him play. Previous to that he was the undoubted star of school club and county. Yes it was all in his own age group but as someone else said that St Colmans run included a lot of lads who are showing well at Senior County level now, and Mooney was the pick of the bunch back then. Given his three years of professionalism it has only improved his power and speed, and while his basic skills may be rusty at this stage, there is no doubting from watching him over the last few weeks he is still an awesome player who is miles above the level he is playing at the moment. Against Shamrocks he did score 1-2 yes, and may have missed a few but can't really read much into that! He was man handled all game v Mayobridge with little to no protection from the referee, and wasn't really in the game. Of course he will be in for this sort of treatment in most games, but you would like to think he would be playing under stronger referees than appointed in the Down U21 FC group stage on a Sunday morning!! Anyway, Caolan will no doubt bring a lot to club and county next year, him and others may be the catalyst but it needs a strong panel, he ain't gonna win things on his own at this level!
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: Shamrocks Gaelp on November 02, 2014, 10:02:43 PM
Saying as how the full squad can't train on a pitch until December 1st, has there been any trials yet? And will there be a Cardinal O'Fiach cup this year ?
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: BennyHarp on November 02, 2014, 10:22:35 PM
How good / how old is Ross McGarry from Warrenpoint? He put on some exhibition of point scoring today.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: Shamrocks Gaelp on November 02, 2014, 10:34:58 PM
23 I think ? Fantastic player, brilliant dead ball accuracy, quick and strong and isn't one of the points best players from just hitting frees, he contributes a lot from play. Great shootin and passing off both feet too, but can be greedy sometimes
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: PAULD123 on November 02, 2014, 11:41:21 PM
How good / how old is Ross McGarry from Warrenpoint? He put on some exhibition of point scoring today.

Ross is every bit as good at frees as Donal O'Hare if not better. He contributes more than any other CPN forward during play, leads the line and is willing to take on his man.

As I believe Donal O'Hare was only in the Down side to take frees (rarely scored from play and didn't set much up) I think Ross has been unfairly overlooked. You have to prove yourself to be selected for the first fifteen, but at the very least he should be in the squad. He won young ulster player of the year in 2012 and didn't even get invited to try out for the Down squad.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: SHEEDY on November 03, 2014, 06:54:05 AM
Saying as how the full squad can't train on a pitch until December 1st, has there been any trials yet? And will there be a Cardinal O'Fiach cup this year ?
there has been 2 trial matches so far and another scheduled for later in the week. the big numbers at both matches prove the players want to play for down which is always a good start.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: outback on November 03, 2014, 08:43:04 AM
Saying as how the full squad can't train on a pitch until December 1st, has there been any trials yet? And will there be a Cardinal O'Fiach cup this year ?
there has been 2 trial matches so far and another scheduled for later in the week. the big numbers at both matches prove the players want to play for down which is always a good start.
   Lots of interest alright but some Div 1 clubs had no one at the Trials
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: The Diarrhoa Divil on November 03, 2014, 09:19:55 AM
Whats a cpn?
I think ye would be safer to judge Ross McGarry next year when playing against Div1 defenders.
If memory serves me, he wasn't too hot when Point were last up there.
Easy to shine when the goin is good, not so easy to shine when the chips are down and your team needs you.
A lot of players should only be judged when tough questions are asked of them. Its then you can tell a lot about a player, his worth, his attitude, his character.
Then again ye have to hand it to any player than go out and score heavily against the Aghadergs and Ballymartins of this world. No offence to those clubs.
Sometimes the bias and blinkered views on here are unreal.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: Brick Tamlin on November 03, 2014, 09:39:23 AM
Said it before and il say it again.
James McCartan by and large had the best players on the county panel during his tenure.
There weren't a ball of fellas out there who were regularly outstanding for their clubs screaming to be picked for county. Lets be honest here.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: PAULD123 on November 03, 2014, 10:05:08 AM
Said it before and il say it again.
James McCartan by and large had the best players on the county panel during his tenure.
There weren't a ball of fellas out there who were regularly outstanding for their clubs screaming to be picked for county. Lets be honest here.

James did have the best players in the squad at the time, but gradually a few players no longer wanted to play and some others were left with little game time to develop them. He may have had the best players in the squad but not always in the team. And more importantly didn't always have the best players with an eye to building the next team. By the end of his time King, McComiskey, Hughes, John Clarke had all opted out for various reasons and others like Keith Quinn found USA more interesting than being in the county squad.

But a lot has changed since 2010. the players I mentioned were mostly children in 2010, the best player in 2010 for the county is not necessarily the best player in 2015. It is not about bringing is loads of players that James overlooked it is about the next generation that are coming through now.

Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: Brick Tamlin on November 03, 2014, 10:14:10 AM
The 'next generation' should have been performing at 21 level and doin the business there first.
A lot of fellas find US more interesting than sloggin it with County football. Happens everywhere. Ye lose a certain % every season.
Minor and 21 teams need to be producing quality players regularly and also competing for their own grade annually. Bigger picture of development in Down needs looking at. Proper structures in place with proper personnel.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: speculative on November 03, 2014, 11:44:35 AM
In relation to Ross McGarry, he is a fantastic footballer when he is all in mentally. This notion that he doesn't stand up when the going gets tough isn't exactly the case. Ross it seemed after leaving school became uninterested in football and had even quit at one stage. Also excellent striker off the ground which is something Down have missed since Gregory left really. If McCorry can get him to fully commit and motivate him he would certainly make my first 15(pretty big if though) .

I think the general consensus that McCartan had the best players in the county on the panel is correct. What he didn't do however was manage the younger players sufficiently. Some of the new players on to the panel last year didn't have a conversation with him until they informed him of their decision to leave the panel. That to me is a staggering example of mismanagement and one which must not be repeated by McCorry. If he can maintain motivation for the younger members of the squad we may have a shot of having a truly competitive squad.

I take exception to this lamenting of fellas that have left to go to the US or Australia. To be an inter-county footballer these days is basically a 24/7 profession, and the commitment asked of club players is huge also. It's not a life that many fancy, especially when the likelihood of a medal at the end of it is slim. There's more to life than pulling on a Down jersey for a championship game 3/4 times a year.

Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: supersub on November 03, 2014, 02:45:07 PM
In relation to Ross McGarry, he is a fantastic footballer when he is all in mentally. This notion that he doesn't stand up when the going gets tough isn't exactly the case. Ross it seemed after leaving school became uninterested in football and had even quit at one stage. Also excellent striker off the ground which is something Down have missed since Gregory left really. If McCorry can get him to fully commit and motivate him he would certainly make my first 15(pretty big if though) .

I think the general consensus that McCartan had the best players in the county on the panel is correct. What he didn't do however was manage the younger players sufficiently. Some of the new players on to the panel last year didn't have a conversation with him until they informed him of their decision to leave the panel. That to me is a staggering example of mismanagement and one which must not be repeated by McCorry. If he can maintain motivation for the younger members of the squad we may have a shot of having a truly competitive squad.

I take exception to this lamenting of fellas that have left to go to the US or Australia. To be an inter-county footballer these days is basically a 24/7 profession, and the commitment asked of club players is huge also. It's not a life that many fancy, especially when the likelihood of a medal at the end of it is slim. There's more to life than pulling on a Down jersey for a championship game 3/4 times a year.

Everyone deserves a chance if performing well, however there is a huge gulf between Intermediate and Senior club level, and even more up to inter county level!
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: PAULD123 on November 03, 2014, 03:50:48 PM
I agree that there is a a significance difference between intermediate and senior championship. That is why I said I never expected Ross to be deserving of a first fifteen slot unless he could prove himself at a higher level. However, if you are outstanding at intermediate level, and the player of the championship, then I think that is certainly enough to earn you a chance to at least be invited in to the squad.

And Ross is the outstanding player in the Intermediate championship, which includes a few senior county squad footballers.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: supersub on November 03, 2014, 08:03:32 PM
Agreed
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: Ed Hardy on November 19, 2014, 06:29:03 PM
Anyone heard of what players called to trials or anything yet?
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: outback on November 20, 2014, 03:36:25 PM
 All very quiet on here.  No word of the Trials at all.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: SHEEDY on November 20, 2014, 04:13:23 PM
there has been 4 or 5 trial matches that have already taken place. all these trial games were recorded as well to be viewed again by the management. as far as I know last Saturdays trial game was the last and the panel are due to start training soon.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: PAULD123 on November 21, 2014, 08:38:21 AM
How does that work for the Warrenpoint players? As they are still in the championship their players will not be in the panel. Do they get called in later?
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: redandblackareback on November 21, 2014, 09:57:59 AM
DOnt be fooled the trials are a tick box exercise and always have been, if mc curry and dawson need trials for u21 and senior after having spent the last 7/8 years in the down leagues then they shouldnt be there/. Them men know whos gonna cut the mustard and whos not. Trials are a waste of time.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: outback on November 21, 2014, 10:35:47 AM
 I agree to a certain point but they would not have seen
too many Div 2 or 3 players. There's bound to be someone or more
that will emerge from the trialling process from lower down
the Leagues. '91 was proof that there was talent  in the County apart
from Div1 players.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: Town Gael on November 21, 2014, 12:16:47 PM

How does that work for the Warrenpoint players? As they are still in the championship their players will not be in the panel. Do they get called in later?
I've heard there will be some new faces from the lower leagues in the panel of 50 picked after the trials
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: DownFanatic on November 21, 2014, 04:12:51 PM
Trials are most definitely tick box exercises.
Keeps clubs happy especially the lower league clubs who always complain about lack of representation on county panels.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: outback on November 21, 2014, 05:03:56 PM
 Does your Club complain or are you one of the elite?
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: DownFanatic on November 21, 2014, 05:51:57 PM
Does your Club complain or are you one of the elite?

I'm from a junior club.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: supersub on November 22, 2014, 05:17:03 PM
I heard U21 trials due to take place this weekend were called off.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: SHEEDY on November 22, 2014, 08:07:55 PM
I heard U21 trials due to take place this weekend were called off.
due to the bad weather apparently
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: BennyHarp on December 01, 2014, 12:02:21 PM
I see Ross McGarry put in another man of the match performance yesterday. Looking forward to seeing if this guy can push into the Down squad.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: PAULD123 on December 01, 2014, 02:01:24 PM
I see Ross McGarry put in another man of the match performance yesterday. Looking forward to seeing if this guy can push into the Down squad.

Ross is simply outstanding at intermediate level. There is not a defender at that level in Ulster that could deal with him. However as some other people have pointed out he needs to be tested at a higher level. His superb displays have earned him that right and we are finally gong to see it. Ross certainly has the natural talent to be a county player, but being able to deal with better defenders is a new test.

What annoys me is that it's not a new thing. He was captain of a school all-Ireland winning side, he was captain and star of the minors that got to the semi-final of the All-Ireland. In one of his first games ever at senior level he smashed in 7 points. Two years ago he bagged 9 points in an Ulster final. Yet he was abandoned by the county until now.

He should have been involved in the county, being developed so that now at around 26 he would be a finished product. Instead we have lad with enormous potential reaching a peak at club level that has never worn the senior county shirt. He is effectively a raw county player, it could take two years to get the experience necessary to reach his peak at that level. It is such a waste, he should be reaching his peak as a county player now the same as he is at club level.

Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: Brick Tamlin on December 02, 2014, 08:39:37 AM
Your bias knows no boundaries.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: supersub on December 02, 2014, 09:47:35 AM
I see Ross McGarry put in another man of the match performance yesterday. Looking forward to seeing if this guy can push into the Down squad.

Ross is simply outstanding at intermediate level. There is not a defender at that level in Ulster that could deal with him. However as some other people have pointed out he needs to be tested at a higher level. His superb displays have earned him that right and we are finally gong to see it. Ross certainly has the natural talent to be a county player, but being able to deal with better defenders is a new test.

What annoys me is that it's not a new thing. He was captain of a school all-Ireland winning side, he was captain and star of the minors that got to the semi-final of the All-Ireland. In one of his first games ever at senior level he smashed in 7 points. Two years ago he bagged 9 points in an Ulster final. Yet he was abandoned by the county until now.

He should have been involved in the county, being developed so that now at around 26 he would be a finished product. Instead we have lad with enormous potential reaching a peak at club level that has never worn the senior county shirt. He is effectively a raw county player, it could take two years to get the experience necessary to reach his peak at that level. It is such a waste, he should be reaching his peak as a county player now the same as he is at club level.

Nowhere near it - he must be 22/23 at the most!
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: mccool85 on December 02, 2014, 10:09:47 AM
He won a Hogan in 2010 so is either 22 or 23.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: Shamrocks Gaelp on December 02, 2014, 09:25:21 PM
Anyone have any news on the McKenna Cup panel?
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: PAULD123 on December 02, 2014, 10:23:37 PM
Actually, good point. I stand corrected. he could only be 23 at most.

But my general point remains the same. He was an Ulster club all-star two years ago and should have been in the squad being developed.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: John Martin on December 02, 2014, 11:27:29 PM
I see Ross McGarry put in another man of the match performance yesterday. Looking forward to seeing if this guy can push into the Down squad.

Ross is simply outstanding at intermediate level. There is not a defender at that level in Ulster that could deal with him. However as some other people have pointed out he needs to be tested at a higher level. His superb displays have earned him that right and we are finally gong to see it. Ross certainly has the natural talent to be a county player, but being able to deal with better defenders is a new test.

What annoys me is that it's not a new thing. He was captain of a school all-Ireland winning side, he was captain and star of the minors that got to the semi-final of the All-Ireland. In one of his first games ever at senior level he smashed in 7 points. Two years ago he bagged 9 points in an Ulster final. Yet he was abandoned by the county until now.

He should have been involved in the county, being developed so that now at around 26 he would be a finished product. Instead we have lad with enormous potential reaching a peak at club level that has never worn the senior county shirt. He is effectively a raw county player, it could take two years to get the experience necessary to reach his peak at that level. It is such a waste, he should be reaching his peak as a county player now the same as he is at club level.

No he wasn't.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: ardtole on December 03, 2014, 06:56:00 AM
McPartland was I think. Another very good player, has he recovered from injury yet? Ryan Johnson, Garvey and McPartland would be a good halfback line.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: Brick Tamlin on December 03, 2014, 08:54:24 AM
James McCartan had the best players available to him on his panels.
The notion that there were players destroying defences in Down week-in week-out for their clubs and being overlooked for county for some myseterious reason is ludicrous.
Take off the blue n white tinted spectacles ffs.
That would be the Gaelic Life Ulster Club Allstars would it?
Right.

Time will tell whether the new recruits can cut it at county senior level.
Lets hope they can. But some of the cheerleading and comments on here recently is laughable.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: NP 76 on December 03, 2014, 10:01:09 AM
Mc Garry trained with the Down panel this last 2 years under James but was one of the ones that wasn't there at the end for whatever reason. All very well doing it week in week out at that standard but let's see how he performs at a higher level. On the talk of the Hogan campaign if I remember correct he was only a sub on that panel and played as a sub on most occasions
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: supersub on December 03, 2014, 11:16:35 AM
Incorrect, he was one of the main men. Was carrying a hamstring injury towards the latter stages of the competition and so was only good for 10-20 minutes in the MacRory final/hogan games!
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: Brick Tamlin on December 03, 2014, 11:43:17 AM
How did he perform in Div1 last year.
Why didn't he make an impact if on county snr squad initially last year?
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: elk on December 03, 2014, 12:52:44 PM
James McCartan had the best players available to him on his panels.
The notion that there were players destroying defences in Down week-in week-out for their clubs and being overlooked for county for some myseterious reason is ludicrous.
Take off the blue n white tinted spectacles ffs.
That would be the Gaelic Life Ulster Club Allstars would it?
Right.

Time will tell whether the new recruits can cut it at county senior level.
Lets hope they can. But some of the cheerleading and comments on here recently is laughable.
Let the Point enjoy their moment and the contribution their new messiah has made to it
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: outback on December 03, 2014, 04:15:11 PM
James McCartan had the best players available to him on his panels.
The notion that there were players destroying defences in Down week-in week-out for their clubs and being overlooked for county for some myseterious reason is ludicrous.
Take off the blue n white tinted spectacles ffs.
That would be the Gaelic Life Ulster Club Allstars would it?
Right.

Time will tell whether the new recruits can cut it at county senior level.
Lets hope they can. But some of the cheerleading and comments on here recently is laughable.
Let the Point enjoy their moment and the contribution their new messiah has made to it
A lot of begrudgery on here.  Quite poor form to a player/Club that has done Down proud. :-[
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: Brick Tamlin on December 03, 2014, 04:19:59 PM
Dry up.
No begrudgery but really fed up with the ridiculous rhetoric that gets posted on here sometimes.
A measure of sense and reason wouldn't go amiss.
If someone could actually answer the questions on my last post that would be welcome.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: Brick Tamlin on December 03, 2014, 04:28:25 PM
What part of my post was un GAA-like?
Actually what is GAA-like.

Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: Down Follower on December 03, 2014, 05:14:35 PM
How did he perform in Div1 last year.
Why didn't he make an impact if on county snr squad initially last year?

I am not sure if he was on the sqaud at all last year to be fair.
In terms of the last time he played Div1, dont be fooling us into thinking you dont know how he performed. He would have been 21, less mature and may have spat the dummy out of the pram for CPN. However, he appears to have grown up a bit since then.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: NP 76 on December 03, 2014, 06:18:55 PM
Super sub I heard different about that but not going to get into a slagging match over a lad who everyone on here would love to see push in to the starting team and do well. But at the end of the day he is yet another small forward something we have plenty off. It's big strong defenders we need yet not slot of names are coming forward for them
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: DownFanatic on December 03, 2014, 08:55:15 PM
Super sub I heard different about that but not going to get into a slagging match over a lad who everyone on here would love to see push in to the starting team and do well. But at the end of the day he is yet another small forward something we have plenty off. It's big strong defenders we need yet not slot of names are coming forward for them

Just as a matter of explanation.
Why do you think we need more big and strong defenders?
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: NP 76 on December 03, 2014, 10:58:54 PM
I would like to see a big strong player at 3 and 6 to shore up the centre of the defence. Who have we to deal with a big set of forwards? I feel we will always struggle against a team who have big forwards like we have done in the past against mayo, cork and this year against Kildare. We only have only one hitter in Conor Garvey in our back six he can't do it all. Maybe I am wrong in this view but there is always the chance that we will ship a heavy score line against the bigger teams
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: supersub on December 04, 2014, 12:32:51 PM
Why big and strong?

What about athletic and skilful would that not be better?

You do not have to be huge to play in those positions take Karl Lacey as an example, a small but tough mobile (attacking) defender!
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: NP 76 on December 04, 2014, 12:40:55 PM
Lacey is hardly small. Do we have any Lacey type players on the panel at the minute
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: supersub on December 04, 2014, 01:36:29 PM
He certainly isn't the 6'4 wall that you are talking about anyway.

We do not - that is what I am getting at, I would rather see a player like that. Likewise, do we have any in the mould of what you are talking about? You haven't answered my initial question on why big and strong?
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: PAULD123 on December 04, 2014, 02:06:28 PM
Brick,

You have posted before that James generally had the best players available to him, and I agreed with you. I still agree with you. Sean Parr aside, pretty much James's best fifteen footballers took the field. I still pretty much agree with that.

What I was venting about was the lack of cohesion between the young players performing at minor and U21 level and getting them to playing for Down. This is a complaint about development structures. And in fact I know you have posted in the past that we need better development structures.

It is wastefully late until a player is already performing at a high level to bring him in. The task of the county manager should have be winning with his first fifteen, and secondly and equally importantly, with developing the next generation and integrating them. I see no clear strategy at the county level for that.

Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: gaamann on December 04, 2014, 10:05:21 PM
Niall Mc Parland was captain of the Hogan team not Ross.
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: Ed Hardy on December 08, 2014, 08:30:48 PM
I see 'Down' are to play the Championship All Star team next Sunday in Newry. Any word on who's on the training panel at present?
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: Shamrocks Gaelp on December 14, 2014, 11:29:49 AM
What time is this charity game on at today ? Also didn't get the irish news yesterday, but I heard that there was an interview with Jim mccorry about the McKenna cup squad, did it give the actual panel?
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: DownFanatic on December 14, 2014, 12:09:12 PM
2pm
Title: Re: New Down talent.
Post by: Shamrocks Gaelp on December 14, 2014, 12:18:27 PM
Thank you