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GAA Discussion => GAA Discussion => Topic started by: heganboy on November 14, 2012, 01:04:58 PM

Title: The GPA
Post by: heganboy on November 14, 2012, 01:04:58 PM
A few years ago the GPA was one of the hottest topics for discussion on this board. I would say that I along with many others was really not sure what to make of them. I think I was sceptical of the motivation, and the direction of the body, but I think I was reserving judgement (but probably not- reserving judgement is not one of my stronger points) . As I get older (and I'm certainly not wiser) I see the benefits of having a players organization, and I'm actually surprised by the lack of publicity and profile that the group has had. I see that they seem to have made strides in their maturity as an entity, and the players that have affiliation seem to have on the balance good things to say about it.
Anyone any thoughts on this topic? Any stories to share?
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: deiseach on November 14, 2012, 02:21:52 PM
The test of the effectiveness of the GAA/GPA marriage will be when there is disagreement between the two.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: samwin08 on November 14, 2012, 02:59:11 PM
Players travel allowance has been 50c I think for several years. The price of fuel has increased by at least  70% since that rate was set.  Is is not time Dessie demandes a considerable increase?
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: Orchardman on November 14, 2012, 05:05:42 PM
Players travel allowance has been 50c I think for several years. The price of fuel has increased by at least  70% since that rate was set.  Is is not time Dessie demandes a considerable increase?

No, when i drive an hour to armagh for club training i dont even get 1 cent a mile.

Overall though, yes they seem to be doing a good job. They are much quieter as the GAA gave them a big lump sum when they bought them over just to shut them up.

Think i read an article with that mooney guy who left down this year to go and play for collingwood, and he was moaning ' 80,000 at all big games and everyone gets paid but the players, blah blah, boo hoo, the GAA are making millions but where does it go?'' he asked. This line of thinking is nonsense, look at the amount of county boards in debt, most spend almost 1 million a year preparing all county teams and Croke park already gives out 80% of its revenue back to the grassroots.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: deiseach on November 14, 2012, 05:33:24 PM
Think i read an article with that mooney guy who left down this year to go and play for collingwood, and he was moaning ' 80,000 at all big games and everyone gets paid but the players, blah blah, boo hoo, the GAA are making millions but where does it go?'' he asked. This line of thinking is nonsense, look at the amount of county boards in debt, most spend almost 1 million a year preparing all county teams and Croke park already gives out 80% of its revenue back to the grassroots.

Yep, you may have read it here (http://www.hoganstand.com/Down/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=180626).
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: Orchardman on November 14, 2012, 05:50:53 PM
yea, that's the one.
Of course if i was the lad i would probably have made the same decision, just for a couple of years anyway.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 14, 2012, 06:14:29 PM
Players travel allowance has been 50c I think for several years. The price of fuel has increased by at least  70% since that rate was set.  Is is not time Dessie demandes a considerable increase?

No, when i drive an hour to armagh for club training i dont even get 1 cent a mile.

Overall though, yes they seem to be doing a good job. They are much quieter as the GAA gave them a big lump sum when they bought them over just to shut them up.

Think i read an article with that mooney guy who left down this year to go and play for collingwood, and he was moaning ' 80,000 at all big games and everyone gets paid but the players, blah blah, boo hoo, the GAA are making millions but where does it go?'' he asked. This line of thinking is nonsense, look at the amount of county boards in debt, most spend almost 1 million a year preparing all county teams and Croke park already gives out 80% of its revenue back to the grassroots.

Was just thinking that about that article myself. If the jumped-up little p***k wants to know where the money goes, all he has to do is go to the GAA website, look up the financial report, read it, and it'll tell him where the money is spent. Saying that GAA volunteers are making a "clean fortune" while he does all the work on the field is just a flat out lie. There wouldn't be any games for him to play if it wasn't for the volunteers who make it happen. Give him a few years and he'll soon grow up and realise how stupid he is.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: midLouth on November 14, 2012, 07:09:34 PM
The guy is a kid, why get upset about him, he has different ideals than those set out by the GAA, there are a lot more players with a different perspective than him. The bit I couldn't understand from that piece is him thinking Croke Park being filled a handful of times a year would pay for a professional sport.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 14, 2012, 07:22:06 PM
I'm not upset at all. It just reminds me of when I was his age. Your late teens and early 20s is when there's the biggest gap between how much you know and how much you think you know. He'll get over it.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: heganboy on November 14, 2012, 09:06:38 PM
Your late teens and early 20s is when there's the biggest gap between how much you know and how much you think you know.

You're not wrong...
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: wildrover on November 14, 2012, 10:01:56 PM
Players travel allowance has been 50c I think for several years. The price of fuel has increased by at least  70% since that rate was set.  Is is not time Dessie demandes a considerable increase?

No, when i drive an hour to armagh for club training i dont even get 1 cent a mile.

Overall though, yes they seem to be doing a good job. They are much quieter as the GAA gave them a big lump sum when they bought them over just to shut them up.

Think i read an article with that mooney guy who left down this year to go and play for collingwood, and he was moaning ' 80,000 at all big games and everyone gets paid but the players, blah blah, boo hoo, the GAA are making millions but where does it go?'' he asked. This line of thinking is nonsense, look at the amount of county boards in debt, most spend almost 1 million a year preparing all county teams and Croke park already gives out 80% of its revenue back to the grassroots.

Was just thinking that about that article myself. If the jumped-up little p***k wants to know where the money goes, all he has to do is go to the GAA website, look up the financial report, read it, and it'll tell him where the money is spent. Saying that GAA volunteers are making a "clean fortune" while he does all the work on the field is just a flat out lie. There wouldn't be any games for him to play if it wasn't for the volunteers who make it happen. Give him a few years and he'll soon grow up and realise how stupid he is.

You obviously know this young man personally and so are in a position to insult him like that?

You then attempt to quantify it with a later post containing some patronising drivel about age being linked to wisdom...you appear very foolish and yet apparently have many years behind you...how can this happen?...are you an anomaly?...
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 14, 2012, 10:15:36 PM
are you an anomaly?...

Yes.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: Bud Wiser on November 19, 2012, 12:18:05 PM
On the subject itself (hadn't seen this thread) I was one of the ones opposed to the GPA and there were some good heated discussions about same when they arrived on the scene. Looking back I suppose the Cork boys with their Cummins Hurling Ball and their street walking antics influenced my refusal to accept change and to answer the question posed in the opening of the thread, yes, I have changed in terms of acceptance.

As far as I can see the GAA/GPA are working together a lot more now than back then when we were all thrown in our tuppence worth and like them or loath them I don't think that issues like gambling addiction, employment assistance in terms of start ups and getting more of our players jobs without having to emigrate would never have been undertaken by the GAA itself without the extra push frrom the GPA.

So yes, I would sit and sup a pint with a GPA man anyday now and say, yes, ye are not a bad ould crowd after all !
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: INDIANA on November 19, 2012, 12:23:09 PM
On the subject itself (hadn't seen this thread) I was one of the ones opposed to the GPA and there were some good heated discussions about same when they arrived on the scene. Looking back I suppose the Cork boys with their Cummins Hurling Ball and their street walking antics influenced my refusal to accept change and to answer the question posed in the opening of the thread, yes, I have changed in terms of acceptance.

As far as I can see the GAA/GPA are working together a lot more now than back then when we were all thrown in our tuppence worth and like them or loath them I don't think that issues like gambling addiction, employment assistance in terms of start ups and getting more of our players jobs without having to emigrate would never have been undertaken by the GAA itself without the extra push frrom the GPA.

So yes, I would sit and sup a pint with a GPA man anyday now and say, yes, ye are not a bad ould crowd after all !

I don't trust them at all personally and I'd still say they have an agenda towards professionalism in some form.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: johnneycool on November 19, 2012, 01:21:39 PM
On the subject itself (hadn't seen this thread) I was one of the ones opposed to the GPA and there were some good heated discussions about same when they arrived on the scene. Looking back I suppose the Cork boys with their Cummins Hurling Ball and their street walking antics influenced my refusal to accept change and to answer the question posed in the opening of the thread, yes, I have changed in terms of acceptance.

As far as I can see the GAA/GPA are working together a lot more now than back then when we were all thrown in our tuppence worth and like them or loath them I don't think that issues like gambling addiction, employment assistance in terms of start ups and getting more of our players jobs without having to emigrate would never have been undertaken by the GAA itself without the extra push frrom the GPA.

So yes, I would sit and sup a pint with a GPA man anyday now and say, yes, ye are not a bad ould crowd after all !

I don't trust them at all personally and I'd still say they have an agenda towards professionalism in some form.

The death of the celtic tiger has put that one on hold for the time being but it'll rear its ugly head again before long.

Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: antoinse on November 19, 2012, 01:52:57 PM
Reading the business section of the Sunday Independent yesterday I was wondering if the new 'Legacy' business set up by the Brogan cousins, James and Bernard, may be the parting of the ways with the GPA. Perhaps  I am naive in my thinking? but I cannot seem to get it away from my head
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: The Biff on November 19, 2012, 01:57:05 PM
If I remember correctly (and that is NOT always the case), I was basically supportive of the GPA at the start, on the basis that the top level players should have some useful views to be shared.  I don't go along with the "Professionalism is inevitable" mantra.  I would hope the GPA supremos can also do their sums and recognize that we are just not a big enough market to support it.

When Croke Park accepted the GPA as a representative body, and then joined up their two award schemes into one, that's when I felt the book was really closed regarding the doubts on their legitimacy.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: Bingo on November 19, 2012, 02:16:15 PM
I think the heads in the GPA are clever enough or wise to the fact that professionalism is never going to materialise and that the monies to fund such a move aren't and never will be there.

They have moved to counter this by advising and supporting players as best they can to be able to support themselves as best they can, particularly self-employed players and high profile players. I think this is the way to go and will give the player a good platform to better himself without just throwing money at him during his short intercounty career.

I know one Monaghan hurler who got great support and guidence for expanding his business in terms of marketing and general business advice. He then got a small grant to take his business online and he is doing well for himself at present.

In the older days, good GAA players where looked after as such and done well for it eg handy jobs, doors got opened, plenty of perks etc. In the boom, players got a notion that they should be really looked after and that they do enough to have earned that right. Nowadays, the reality is that they can do well if they are willing to put in some honest work and that there is support in place to help them with this.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: Hardy on November 19, 2012, 03:07:08 PM
I haven't changed my opinion. I disagree vehemently with the diversion of huge sums of money (is it €3 million annually - that's what was proposed anyway?) from the proper activities of the association to the benefit of an elite group of players, who are already (and rightly) the most privileged group in the association.

I think it's a farce that the group that represents a tiny minority of the players in the association and specifically excludes the rest of players from membership is constituted as the official representative body for ALL players, including those it discriminates against.

And I don't accept the arguments either that professionalism is not on their long term agenda or that professionalism is impossible. On the contrary, professionalism is inevitable unless the membership actively prevents it. We know that from the experience of virtually every other sport that has had professionalism thrust upon it against its wishes.

Of course it is not possible to professionalise the current structures but that's never how professionalism gets into a sport. The GAA could easily support a professional league of up to ten fully sponsored teams. This league would then cannibalise the rest of the game of all resources.

Anyone who doubts the GAA "market" could support a small professional league only has to look at the existence of professional leagues around Europe in small countries/regions in sports like olympic handball, water polo and even Valencian pilota. (No, me either).
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: sheamy on November 19, 2012, 03:17:43 PM
I haven't changed my opinion. I disagree vehemently with the diversion of huge sums of money (is it €3 million annually - that's what was proposed anyway?) from the proper activities of the association to the benefit of an elite group of players, who are already (and rightly) the most privileged group in the association.

I think it's a farce that the group that represents a tiny minority of the players in the association and specifically excludes the rest of players from membership is constituted as the official representative body for ALL players, including those it discriminates against.

And I don't accept the arguments either that professionalism is not on their long term agenda or that professionalism is impossible. On the contrary, professionalism is inevitable unless the membership actively prevents it. We know that from the experience of virtually every other sport that has had professionalism thrust upon it against its wishes.

Of course it is not possible to professionalise the current structures but that's never how professionalism gets into a sport. The GAA could easily support a professional league of up to ten fully sponsored teams. This league would then cannibalise the rest of the game of all resources.

Anyone who doubts the GAA "market" could support a small professional league only has to look at the existence of professional leagues around Europe in small countries/regions in sports like olympic handball, water polo and even Valencian pilota. (No, me either).

Just one problem with that post Hardy. The message wasn't clear enough. I've taken the liberty of inflating the font size.

'I believe it is peace in our time'  Neville Chamberlain
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: magpie seanie on November 19, 2012, 03:32:38 PM
I haven't changed my opinion. I disagree vehemently with the diversion of huge sums of money (is it €3 million annually - that's what was proposed anyway?) from the proper activities of the association to the benefit of an elite group of players, who are already (and rightly) the most privileged group in the association.

I think it's a farce that the group that represents a tiny minority of the players in the association and specifically excludes the rest of players from membership is constituted as the official representative body for ALL players, including those it discriminates against.

And I don't accept the arguments either that professionalism is not on their long term agenda or that professionalism is impossible. On the contrary, professionalism is inevitable unless the membership actively prevents it. We know that from the experience of virtually every other sport that has had professionalism thrust upon it against its wishes.

Of course it is not possible to professionalise the current structures but that's never how professionalism gets into a sport. The GAA could easily support a professional league of up to ten fully sponsored teams. This league would then cannibalise the rest of the game of all resources.

Anyone who doubts the GAA "market" could support a small professional league only has to look at the existence of professional leagues around Europe in small countries/regions in sports like olympic handball, water polo and even Valencian pilota. (No, me either).


Well said.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: AQMP on November 19, 2012, 03:37:10 PM
I haven't changed my opinion. I disagree vehemently with the diversion of huge sums of money (is it €3 million annually - that's what was proposed anyway?) from the proper activities of the association to the benefit of an elite group of players, who are already (and rightly) the most privileged group in the association.

I think it's a farce that the group that represents a tiny minority of the players in the association and specifically excludes the rest of players from membership is constituted as the official representative body for ALL players, including those it discriminates against.

And I don't accept the arguments either that professionalism is not on their long term agenda or that professionalism is impossible. On the contrary, professionalism is inevitable unless the membership actively prevents it. We know that from the experience of virtually every other sport that has had professionalism thrust upon it against its wishes.

Of course it is not possible to professionalise the current structures but that's never how professionalism gets into a sport. The GAA could easily support a professional league of up to ten fully sponsored teams. This league would then cannibalise the rest of the game of all resources.

Anyone who doubts the GAA "market" could support a small professional league only has to look at the existence of professional leagues around Europe in small countries/regions in sports like olympic handball, water polo and even Valencian pilota. (No, me either).

I agree...
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: Bingo on November 19, 2012, 04:20:24 PM
I haven't changed my opinion. I disagree vehemently with the diversion of huge sums of money (is it €3 million annually - that's what was proposed anyway?) from the proper activities of the association to the benefit of an elite group of players, who are already (and rightly) the most privileged group in the association.

I think it's a farce that the group that represents a tiny minority of the players in the association and specifically excludes the rest of players from membership is constituted as the official representative body for ALL players, including those it discriminates against.

And I don't accept the arguments either that professionalism is not on their long term agenda or that professionalism is impossible. On the contrary, professionalism is inevitable unless the membership actively prevents it. We know that from the experience of virtually every other sport that has had professionalism thrust upon it against its wishes.

Of course it is not possible to professionalise the current structures but that's never how professionalism gets into a sport. The GAA could easily support a professional league of up to ten fully sponsored teams. This league would then cannibalise the rest of the game of all resources.

Anyone who doubts the GAA "market" could support a small professional league only has to look at the existence of professional leagues around Europe in small countries/regions in sports like olympic handball, water polo and even Valencian pilota. (No, me either).

The one thing that has remained consistent in the GAA over the years is the geographically structure. This hasn't changed and its always been county v county. For porfessionalism to even have a chance of taking root, this will have to change and I can't see it doing so.

The reason why Rugby and these other sports you have mentioned have gone pro (to a very limited extent) is that they have an international factor and demand. The GAA doesn't have that international market and will be a very long time before it does.

Talk of a ten team sponsored league is nonsense, county teams can barely get sponsorship at a basic level. Firstly this would totally break the very meaning of the GAA and you lose majority of your support base, you have basically a LOI structure for GAA. The money wouldn't be there  - say panel of 25 at average of €30,000 per year  = 750,000 before the existing running cost. No team could generate a turnover of say €2m to support itself in a season.

Shredding away any estimates or assumptions, it boils down to one basic factor - we are too small a country to support any professional sport on its own.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: Hardy on November 19, 2012, 05:01:51 PM
They have a professional women's handball league in Denmark, a country whose population is smaller than Ireland's.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: INDIANA on November 19, 2012, 05:27:29 PM
I haven't changed my opinion. I disagree vehemently with the diversion of huge sums of money (is it €3 million annually - that's what was proposed anyway?) from the proper activities of the association to the benefit of an elite group of players, who are already (and rightly) the most privileged group in the association.

I think it's a farce that the group that represents a tiny minority of the players in the association and specifically excludes the rest of players from membership is constituted as the official representative body for ALL players, including those it discriminates against.

And I don't accept the arguments either that professionalism is not on their long term agenda or that professionalism is impossible. On the contrary, professionalism is inevitable unless the membership actively prevents it. We know that from the experience of virtually every other sport that has had professionalism thrust upon it against its wishes.

Of course it is not possible to professionalise the current structures but that's never how professionalism gets into a sport. The GAA could easily support a professional league of up to ten fully sponsored teams. This league would then cannibalise the rest of the game of all resources.

Anyone who doubts the GAA "market" could support a small professional league only has to look at the existence of professional leagues around Europe in small countries/regions in sports like olympic handball, water polo and even Valencian pilota. (No, me either).

The one thing that has remained consistent in the GAA over the years is the geographically structure. This hasn't changed and its always been county v county. For porfessionalism to even have a chance of taking root, this will have to change and I can't see it doing so.

The reason why Rugby and these other sports you have mentioned have gone pro (to a very limited extent) is that they have an international factor and demand. The GAA doesn't have that international market and will be a very long time before it does.

Talk of a ten team sponsored league is nonsense, county teams can barely get sponsorship at a basic level. Firstly this would totally break the very meaning of the GAA and you lose majority of your support base, you have basically a LOI structure for GAA. The money wouldn't be there  - say panel of 25 at average of €30,000 per year  = 750,000 before the existing running cost. No team could generate a turnover of say €2m to support itself in a season.

Shredding away any estimates or assumptions, it boils down to one basic factor - we are too small a country to support any professional sport on its own.

doesn't matter what the economics of it are when players feel they should be getting something. Its a lot of the younger generation really. Their attitude is they should be getting something for all the time they give up for it. Reasoned debate doesn't matter with a lot of them.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 19, 2012, 05:28:53 PM
They have a professional women's handball league in Denmark, a country whose population is smaller than Ireland's.

How's it doing?
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: Bingo on November 19, 2012, 05:29:10 PM
They have a professional women's handball league in Denmark, a country whose population is smaller than Ireland's.
Yes and they compete in the European CL tournement and the national team competes in international tournements  = increased sponsorship rights and TV rights money.

Even with this the sport is in a bit of mess despite been the second most popular sport in the country. http://www.playthegame.org/knowledge-bank/articles/handball-clubs-on-the-brink-of-insolvency-5120.html?type=98&cHash=7da30cc415abb931b0a5c635aceda145 (http://www.playthegame.org/knowledge-bank/articles/handball-clubs-on-the-brink-of-insolvency-5120.html?type=98&cHash=7da30cc415abb931b0a5c635aceda145)
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: Bingo on November 19, 2012, 05:31:16 PM
doesn't matter what the economics of it are when players feel they should be getting something. Its a lot of the younger generation really. Their attitude is they should be getting something for all the time they give up for it. Reasoned debate doesn't matter with a lot of them.

Without doubt this has been the issue in recent years. They look at the attendence on championship weekends, read that the All-ireland final generates €5m and they will say they will want a bit of that. It will only continue that way.

The only thing that can give is the demands that is expected off the Intercounty player and this has to reduce.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: Hardy on November 19, 2012, 05:44:11 PM
They have a professional women's handball league in Denmark, a country whose population is smaller than Ireland's.
Yes and they compete in the European CL tournement and the national team competes in international tournements  = increased sponsorship rights and TV rights money.

Even with this the sport is in a bit of mess despite been the second most popular sport in the country. http://www.playthegame.org/knowledge-bank/articles/handball-clubs-on-the-brink-of-insolvency-5120.html?type=98&cHash=7da30cc415abb931b0a5c635aceda145 (http://www.playthegame.org/knowledge-bank/articles/handball-clubs-on-the-brink-of-insolvency-5120.html?type=98&cHash=7da30cc415abb931b0a5c635aceda145)

This hardly refutes the point, which is not that professionalism would necessarily be successful in the GAA but that it is inevitable that it will be tried if we allow it. Whether or not it is ultimately successful, it will will sustain at least for a while as it did in Danish Women's Handball and will ruin the game as it has Danish Women's Handball, apparently. The fact that they tried it in the domestic league (leaving the international dimension out altogether) of Danish Women's Handball, which couldn't have dreamed of the level of support GAA gets here (and remember I'm talking about the professional domestic league, not the international game) is not exactly an argument that it could never be tried in GAA. The fact that it seems to be a disaster is not surprising and more or less makes my point.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 19, 2012, 06:03:52 PM
If the GAA ever gets its act together in America (overcoming the partition between New York and the rest of the country would be a good start) and breaks through and gets the attention of the mainstream audience outside the Irish diaspora, then there's a good chance that the games could go professional in America. And that's not as far fetched as you might think.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: rrhf on November 19, 2012, 06:53:04 PM
Look what river dance done for Irish dancing!  Another view I heard rattled out before. I have no doubt you will see a professional effort at this in the states.  Just takes an entrePreneur to make every county in Ireland a feeder club.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: armaghniac on November 19, 2012, 08:06:48 PM
All the more reason to stop wasting time and money promoting trips to the States.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 19, 2012, 08:50:42 PM
Is it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rHvr5GM9I8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rHvr5GM9I8)
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: Bingo on November 19, 2012, 09:27:06 PM
I'd worry about many things but professionalism is way down the list.

The notion of some pro league in the US or some rich bloke setting up a pro league is quite funny actually. Is the US summer scene not pro as it is?
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 19, 2012, 10:12:22 PM
Is the US summer scene not pro as it is?

Allegedly it was. But they reckon there's not as much money being thrown at it now, more of the growth is at entry-level grades because of more Americans taking up the game.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: midLouth on November 21, 2012, 10:48:31 AM
I see Joe Sheridan complaining on the twitter machine that the govt are considering cutting the GPA grant money. Is this going to kick things off again?
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on November 21, 2012, 12:02:23 PM
Brian Farrell is at it as well. You couldn't imagine Mick Lyons or Martin O'Connell whinging on the internet about a couple of bob. No wonder Eastmeath are gone soft.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: Hardy on November 21, 2012, 12:57:14 PM
I have to agree.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: sheamy on November 21, 2012, 02:01:24 PM
Totally and absolutely pathetic. They're all at it. Threatening what will happen if their grants are cut. The mask slips when the Danegeld is running out.

'I don't think the Government fully understand the potential player power Gaa players could muster if grants are cut AGAIN' Craig Rogers
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: midLouth on November 21, 2012, 02:31:19 PM
@CiaranLen: Dear Enda Kenny, Cut the #GPA grants and you'll see what damage a slurry tanker can do on Grafton St. on Xmas eve. Yours, the players x

@Farlo84: “@patnelis79: should never got it in d first place its a amateur sport GPA a joke” wha bout unemployed players?ther cars won't travel on air

@Squarecut84: @Jskehill01 It's about the principle and to show appreciation for the work put in and millions generated for the economy #taken4granted

@antomasterson1: Don't know what's more shocking, di matteo getting sacked or the government cutting the intercounty player grants AGAIN!!! #joke

Nice sample of comments!
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: screenexile on November 21, 2012, 02:39:38 PM
@CiaranLen: Dear Enda Kenny, Cut the #GPA grants and you'll see what damage a slurry tanker can do on Grafton St. on Xmas eve. Yours, the players x

@Farlo84: “@patnelis79: should never got it in d first place its a amateur sport GPA a joke” wha bout unemployed players?ther cars won't travel on air

@Squarecut84: @Jskehill01 It's about the principle and to show appreciation for the work put in and millions generated for the economy #taken4granted

@antomasterson1: Don't know what's more shocking, di matteo getting sacked or the government cutting the intercounty player grants AGAIN!!! #joke

Nice sample of comments!

Jesus wept! Are these lads completely deluded? The country is on its knees and they're giving out about this!?! They could do with kopping themselves om slightly!
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: Stevie g 8 on November 23, 2012, 01:47:34 PM
The GPA sold their sole joining up with the main body.dessie took the money and ran.he,s on a massive salary and in my opinion it was always an elitist organisation doing damn all for the players
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: Hardy on November 23, 2012, 02:40:27 PM
Ah well, they haddock cut at it anyway.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: AQMP on November 23, 2012, 03:29:50 PM
It's all feckin' codology
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: Sportacus on November 23, 2012, 06:13:02 PM
The top players are well enough looked after, sure the All Stars are having a whale of a time in NYC.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: Zulu on November 23, 2012, 07:04:07 PM
Ah good to see the very mention of the GPA still hasn't lost its effect here, turning normal, reasoned posters into paranoid worst case scenario prophets of doom. I'm sure one of you will be on the Discovery channels 'Doomsday preppers' soon, ominously loading your shotgun as you look into the camera telling us that it isn't terrorism, global warming or the Chinese that we should fear but the GPA!!

I'd love to hear how professionalism can be forced upon us Hardy. What you seem to ignore is that outside of the GAA there is a view that the top players should get paid and there is an international dimension to all these sports so there is the potential to do so. This doesn't exist in the GAA but if it did I'd have no problem considering professionalism.

I see nothing wrong in the top players moving on from their clubs and getting paid for playing IC while the rest of us watch them strut their stuff. But this can only happen if there is a genuine international dimension.

The GPA are doing tremendous work by all accounts and have said they hope to eventually represent all players and that professionalism isn't a goal.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: Hardy on November 24, 2012, 11:57:23 AM
Zulu, I've dealt with all the questions you raise dozens of times. No need to re-hash it all again and I'm not interested in a long drawn out debate. We won't enlighten each other and we have fundamentally differing positions on the benefits or depredations of professionalism, as evidenced in your second-last paragraph.

I do, though, object to your gratuitous portrayal of me as some kind of extremist prophet of doom. This comes, of course with the implied suggestion that you are the epitome of reason by comparison. It's especially irritating because I have taken the trouble to support my argument with references, examples and an attempt at reasoned deduction, while you offer only unsupported statements of what can and cannot be. But we'll let that slide.

So just four quick answers:

1. How can professionalism be forced on us:
- How was it forced on tennis and rugby?

2. How can there be professionalism without an international dimension?
- There is a professional Danish women's handball league, as I stated. Not international handball. The women playing in the domestic league get paid to play in that league. I could give you another dozen examples in Europe alone in sports that don’t have an 82,000-capacity stadium, a club in every village and a TV audience of 20% of the entire population for big games. But you can use Google as well as I can.

3. The GPA "hope to eventually represent all players".
- That's a strange thing to say, since they're officially supposed to be representing them already, as they have been set up by us, the GAA membership, as the representative organisation for all players. I know it's hard to do that while specifically banning them from membership of the organisation that "represents" them, so I see their difficulty. I presume, then that what they're expressing is the "hope" that they will actually represent them some day rather than banning them. Yeah, right. What's stopping them? Of course I know. And you know. And I'm surprised you'd swallow horseshit like that.

4. The GPA have said that professionalism is not a goal.
- They have also stated the direct opposite. And their leader has stated that their strategy is to conceal their goal of achieving professionalism until they achieve some lesser goals. "Small steps" I seem to remember he called the strategy. So which statement should I believe?
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: Zulu on November 24, 2012, 12:51:09 PM
Lighten up Hardy, the doomsday stuff was meant as a lighthearted ribbing though it has an element of truth.

Your assertion that the GPA still has professionalism as it's goal is not supported by any evidence or logic. The GPA have stated professionalism isn't sustainable yet you still accuse them of having it as a goal without a shred of evidence yo support that.

We don't differ much on professionalism insofar as neither of us wants it we only differ in the event of it becoming a reality. You see that as being a disaster whereas I don't necessarily, though it may well be.


Now, to your 4 points;

1. Was professionalism forced on the sports you mention? It may have been against the wishes of the IRFU but forced on the rugby world, I don't think it was. All sports evolve and the sports that can afford professionalism have done so. There is no big Market to fuel a pro GAA so it differs from the sports mentioned.

2. I'm sure you're correct but it's the international dimension that creates the need for a pro Danish league. Ireland couldn't have gone pro in rugby if we were the only nation playing but once the bigger countries went pro we had to or be left behind. The decision to go pro has been a huge success with more kids playing the game now than ever before.

3. You clearly don't know what's stopping them but funding and man power is one. If you want the GPA to represent all players I'm sure you'll happily support the GAA employing enough people to listen to the moaning of a junior C footballer in Sligo.

4. The most recent one. But that's neither here nor there as the vast majority of the GAA are happy to remain amateur and without 'Market forces' dictating otherwise there is no possibility we can go pro.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: Bud Wiser on November 25, 2012, 12:01:22 PM
Well I met their "leader" there recently on two occasions and he seemed to be pretty down to earth about what he was about. There are three main reasons why I changed my mind and I suppose in a nutshell if we want to keep going to Croke Park and see players perform at the levels of fitness that we expect as a result of the hours they put in on both the training pitch and the gym then I am thinking somewhere between the doomsday scenario or running around a field of muck with not an arse in the trousers you are going to change back into when you are finished.

For example, at one stage Renault, Ulster Bank and Vodafone were all under the collar of the GAA and sponsored the All-Ireland Football series.  Then Bill Cullen copped onto himself or, the people he was fooling copped onto him and his intention to fly into space using their money to propel him. The Ulster Bank were caught feeding at the same trough as all the other Bankers and could not afford to continue sponsorship of the GAA and pay themselves €350,000 a year pensions.

Vodafone saw that there was as much money value in sponsoring Dublin instead of the GAA. So they gave Dublin a sponsorship of €6M  (SIX FRIGGING MILLION) and therein lies my first gripe.  If one county in Leinster can get €6M to throw at their teams efforts to win an All-Ireland and other counties like Laois or Carlow are feeding off scraps then the GPA for all their faults are trying to see that equal player benefits are shared equally.

I said this before on the old thread I think but Allianze sponsored the league for 20 years. In the last ten of those years neither the GAA or the sponsor made any attempt to stifle the wails of the media about the GAA being decimated because of emmigration. The GAA were glad to soak up sponsorship on the back of young lads 17yrs to 25yrs who could not get a job in the sales and service industry because they were being crucified with quotes in excess of €2000 each for car insurance from the same company.  Something like what Chartis do for GUI in golf was never even attempted and they didn't need an out of this world database to know that a young lad who was devoted to playing hurling for his club or county was a safer bet than someone driving around withn a sawn off shotgun.

There has to be balance between the facilities players have in all counties and that is what we should be talking about. Whether that is achieved by trying to put a cap on the prep funds for county teams or how it is done is what my point is. I remember one year there when JP MC M threw 5 Million at theLimerick county board and told them to go out and win an All-Ireland - had they done so I would have eaten my 1986 National Football League program.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: Bud Wiser on November 29, 2012, 04:49:49 PM
I think I'll take this hook out now. Not worth re-baiting. No good rows on the board try as one might to start one !!
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: Rossfan on November 29, 2012, 04:58:02 PM
Is it not time all jersey sponsorship was pooled and divided between the 32 Counties either equally or in ratio to the membership or number of clubs?
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: midLouth on November 29, 2012, 06:48:20 PM
I think I'll take this hook out now. Not worth re-baiting. No good rows on the board try as one might to start one !!

The board is in a strange place at the moment! Very little activity, even for this time of the year!
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: Bud Wiser on November 29, 2012, 08:17:22 PM
Is it not time all jersey sponsorship was pooled and divided between the 32 Counties either equally or in ratio to the membership or number of clubs?

I dont think that would work, farmers, sheep, grants and head counts would come into play. You are on the right track though, if all the sponsorship was pooled and sent to each county board with each county getting equal sized biscuit boxes full of cash with a condition that it only be spent on the promotion of hurling might be an idea.  I wouldn't give anything to London or New York at all though, or Cork for that matter.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: heffo on November 29, 2012, 11:42:22 PM
Is it not time all jersey sponsorship was pooled and divided between the 32 Counties either equally or in ratio to the membership or number of clubs?

You have some counties who don't even have sponsorship officers, make effectively zero effort at fundraising yet they're, paying managers and players  and thencomplaining about counties with excellent volunteer structures - why don't they go out and make and effort to sort their structures and fundraising?
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: Bud Wiser on November 30, 2012, 03:56:07 AM
Because a lot of these counties are run by poor ould mullackers at club level who do exactly that,  they raise the few bob they can, give it to the county board and then when Mammy is not looking they, who have received this money to assist the players training schedule either dip their hands in the bisciuit tin or run away with the box. Failing that they will hand it to some cute hoor to upgrade his pub or hotel in the far end of Kerry.

Dublin i agree run a tight ship, they always ensured that their county team have had a solicitor or an accountant selected - on the team !!   Indeed in one period they had a solicitor, an accountant and a stockbroker along with a doctor to put the pieces back together of whoever was  caught with their hand in the kitty. Thats why the Dublin captain can raise Sam and say " see yiz all in Coppers" while down in O'Moore Park for example you might hear "has annyone got a few coppers"  or in Waterford or a few other counties "it's time to call the coppers".

Could you just imagine if  small counties like Laois were awarded Six Million sponsorship in the morning! Their old traditional ways of a pint or two in Treacys of the Heath to contemplate the chances of "pulling it off this year" could tempt a chairman and the forty people on the hurling and foot/handball comittees to transform into Ali Baba and the Forty Thieves overnight.  This is why we need the GPA to see that money is not wasted.

Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 30, 2012, 04:55:19 AM
Because a lot of these counties are run by poor ould mullackers at club level who do exactly that,  they raise the few bob they can, give it to the county board and then when Mammy is not looking they, who have received this money to assist the players training schedule either dip their hands in the bisciuit tin or run away with the box. Failing that they will hand it to some cute hoor to upgrade his pub or hotel in the far end of Kerry.

.....

Could you just imagine if  small counties like Laois were awarded Six Million sponsorship in the morning! Their old traditional ways of a pint or two in Treacys of the Heath to contemplate the chances of "pulling it off this year" could tempt a chairman and the forty people on the hurling and foot/handball comittees to transform into Ali Baba and the Forty Thieves overnight.  This is why we need the GPA to see that money is not wasted.

That's a bit of a serious allegation.  Got any proof of that?
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: deiseach on November 30, 2012, 08:53:11 AM
Is it not time all jersey sponsorship was pooled and divided between the 32 Counties either equally or in ratio to the membership or number of clubs?

You have some counties who don't even have sponsorship officers, make effectively zero effort at fundraising yet they're, paying managers and players  and thencomplaining about counties with excellent volunteer structures - why don't they go out and make and effort to sort their structures and fundraising?

I'm sure you're right about the volunteer structures. Some counties are better than others and it's going to show in their revenue. But how is the Vodafone sponsorship money a reflection of that?
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: heffo on November 30, 2012, 09:12:32 AM
Is it not time all jersey sponsorship was pooled and divided between the 32 Counties either equally or in ratio to the membership or number of clubs?

You have some counties who don't even have sponsorship officers, make effectively zero effort at fundraising yet they're, paying managers and players  and thencomplaining about counties with excellent volunteer structures - why don't they go out and make and effort to sort their structures and fundraising?

I'm sure you're right about the volunteer structures. Some counties are better than others and it's going to show in their revenue. But how is the Vodafone sponsorship money a reflection of that?

Dublin negotiated a lucrative deal with Vodafone and had another similar offer on the table too - this is in line with their profile and Vodafone and the other vendor wouldn't have put up the money if they didn't think they'd see a return on their investment.

My point is you have some counties who spend astronomical amounts on preparing their senior team, outside mgt and outside players yet cannot pay their ESB bill and don't or until very recently didn't even have a sponsorship officer - if they can invest such time and energy in other pursuits yet not the basics, why should counties who go all out to have top class structures from top to bottom subsidise such counties?
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: deiseach on November 30, 2012, 09:41:32 AM
Dublin negotiated a lucrative deal with Vodafone and had another similar offer on the table too - this is in line with their profile and Vodafone and the other vendor wouldn't have put up the money if they didn't think they'd see a return on their investment.

My point is you have some counties who spend astronomical amounts on preparing their senior team, outside mgt and outside players yet cannot pay their ESB bill and don't or until very recently didn't even have a sponsorship officer - if they can invest such time and energy in other pursuits yet not the basics, why should counties who go all out to have top class structures from top to bottom subsidise such counties?

I agree with your point about having no sympathy for counties living beyond their means. My own is probably the worst offender in that regard and I get right frustrated when people crib that Michael Ryan is only the coach because the demands of the likes of Donal O'Grady are too expensive. How is going for Michael Ryan in those circumstances meant to be a bad thing? Still, Vodafone aren't interested in Dublin because of their 'top class structures'. They're interested because Dublin command hundreds of thousands of eyeballs every time they play. We weren't all created equal in the GAA.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: heffo on November 30, 2012, 09:57:07 AM
Dublin negotiated a lucrative deal with Vodafone and had another similar offer on the table too - this is in line with their profile and Vodafone and the other vendor wouldn't have put up the money if they didn't think they'd see a return on their investment.

My point is you have some counties who spend astronomical amounts on preparing their senior team, outside mgt and outside players yet cannot pay their ESB bill and don't or until very recently didn't even have a sponsorship officer - if they can invest such time and energy in other pursuits yet not the basics, why should counties who go all out to have top class structures from top to bottom subsidise such counties?

I agree with your point about having no sympathy for counties living beyond their means. My own is probably the worst offender in that regard and I get right frustrated when people crib that Michael Ryan is only the coach because the demands of the likes of Donal O'Grady are too expensive. How is going for Michael Ryan in those circumstances meant to be a bad thing? Still, Vodafone aren't interested in Dublin because of their 'top class structures'. They're interested because Dublin command hundreds of thousands of eyeballs every time they play. We weren't all created equal in the GAA.

Agree with your second point, but a few rebuttals:

The figure of €1m p.a is the maximum possible figure payable, based on Minor-Senior in both codes acheiving certain targets - clearly this will never happen and if you have 6 x teams competing and preparing for the entire duration of a competition then the costs associated rise.

There was never an issue with Dublin having a high media profile prior to the Vodafone deal - we were much lampooned in the media and on this board for being like the English soccer team - loads of hype in the media, big tv audience but a pack of losers.

If a county with no controls in place and the outside Senior football manager making the decisions from top to bottom spends way beyond their means - yet now complains they have no money - I see no reason for a county like Dublin to subsidise them. We're not communists and these proposals will never be realised.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: deiseach on November 30, 2012, 10:07:50 AM
I wouldn't disagree with points 1 and 3 there, heffo, although I think the GAA is more collectivist than you seem to accept. However, I'm confused by your middle point. You say there "was never an issue with Dublin having a high media profile prior to the Vodafone deal". So what do you think made Vodafone put pen to paper?
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: heffo on November 30, 2012, 10:45:51 AM
I wouldn't disagree with points 1 and 3 there, heffo, although I think the GAA is more collectivist than you seem to accept. However, I'm confused by your middle point. You say there "was never an issue with Dublin having a high media profile prior to the Vodafone deal". So what do you think made Vodafone put pen to paper?

Have been speaking French for last month so maybe I was clumsy in my point - I mean other counties thought our profile was a great laugh until we got the Vodafone deal - now we have an unequal advantage due to it
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: midLouth on November 30, 2012, 10:49:03 AM
I wouldn't disagree with points 1 and 3 there, heffo, although I think the GAA is more collectivist than you seem to accept. However, I'm confused by your middle point. You say there "was never an issue with Dublin having a high media profile prior to the Vodafone deal". So what do you think made Vodafone put pen to paper?

Have been speaking French for last month so maybe I was clumsy in my point - I mean other counties thought our profile was a great laugh until we got the Vodafone deal - now we have an unequal advantage due to it

Other counties thought your profile was a great laugh because Dublin never realised it's potential at everything until the last few years, I am not talking just about the sponsorship.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: heffo on November 30, 2012, 10:52:57 AM
I wouldn't disagree with points 1 and 3 there, heffo, although I think the GAA is more collectivist than you seem to accept. However, I'm confused by your middle point. You say there "was never an issue with Dublin having a high media profile prior to the Vodafone deal". So what do you think made Vodafone put pen to paper?

Have been speaking French for last month so maybe I was clumsy in my point - I mean other counties thought our profile was a great laugh until we got the Vodafone deal - now we have an unequal advantage due to it

Other counties thought your profile was a great laugh because Dublin never realised it's potential at everything until the last few years, I am not talking just about the sponsorship.

Thats exactly the point I'm making - it was a great laugh for other counties and now we have an unfair advantage because of it
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: deiseach on November 30, 2012, 11:04:30 AM
I wouldn't disagree with points 1 and 3 there, heffo, although I think the GAA is more collectivist than you seem to accept. However, I'm confused by your middle point. You say there "was never an issue with Dublin having a high media profile prior to the Vodafone deal". So what do you think made Vodafone put pen to paper?

Have been speaking French for last month so maybe I was clumsy in my point - I mean other counties thought our profile was a great laugh until we got the Vodafone deal - now we have an unequal advantage due to it

Fair enough. Thinking about it, pooling sponsorship money is not a good idea. It would reduce the incentive for counties to hammer out individual deals. There is plenty of scope in the GAA for shared revenue models, but county sponsorship is not one of them.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: heffo on November 30, 2012, 11:13:45 AM
I wouldn't disagree with points 1 and 3 there, heffo, although I think the GAA is more collectivist than you seem to accept. However, I'm confused by your middle point. You say there "was never an issue with Dublin having a high media profile prior to the Vodafone deal". So what do you think made Vodafone put pen to paper?

Have been speaking French for last month so maybe I was clumsy in my point - I mean other counties thought our profile was a great laugh until we got the Vodafone deal - now we have an unequal advantage due to it

Fair enough. Thinking about it, pooling sponsorship money is not a good idea. It would reduce the incentive for counties to hammer out individual deals. There is plenty of scope in the GAA for shared revenue models, but county sponsorship is not one of them.

We already have a fairly robust shared revenue model though - many's the pitch and clubhouse in other counties that has been built on the back of Dublin attendances in Croke park.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: deiseach on November 30, 2012, 11:15:25 AM
We already have a fairly robust shared revenue model though - many's the pitch and clubhouse in other counties that has been built on the back of Dublin attendances in Croke park.

Then we're agreed! ;)
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: Bud Wiser on November 30, 2012, 11:42:14 AM
Counties like  Carlow or Louth have no chance of competing with Dublin  unless they step up the drink and  cigarette smuggling or bring back the beet factory. All players at county level should have equal access to equal training facilities and be paid at least 500 euro  a week frrom March  to September. 
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: AZOffaly on November 30, 2012, 11:42:57 AM
Counties like  Carlow or Louth have no chance of competing with Dublin  unless they step up the drink and  cigarette smuggling or bring back the beet factory. All players at county level should have equal access to equal training facilities and be paid at least 500 euro  a week frrom March  to September.

I thought you said the hook was being put away?
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: Rossfan on November 30, 2012, 02:50:56 PM
Not much point telling Counties with small populations like us, Layhthrum, Sligo etc etc to get a sponsorship officer.
We could get 50 sponsorship officers and we'd still be doing well to raise €50 or €60k in a year as we haven't got the population to entice big Commercial entities to throw a load of dosh at us.
Leitrim have a hotel after a local International Company dropped their jersey sponsorship while we have one generous man from Castlerea trying to help the Hospice movement.
That's a long way from Vodafones alleged €6m over 3 years.
Even Cork are being dumped by O2 ........
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: heffo on November 30, 2012, 06:40:03 PM
That's a long way from Vodafones alleged €6m over 3 years.

Nothing alleged about €6m over three years. It's a maximum, based on targets (as already posted on previous page) of €1m p.a over six years depending on performances of 6 x teams in both codes.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: Bud Wiser on December 01, 2012, 03:31:45 PM
Quote
€1m p.a over six years depending on performances of 6 x teams in both codes.

Dear Dessie,

I have to say at the outset of this communication that I am furious at the lack of progress in getting the players in the GPA a proper wage. I have attached a quote from a GAA Internet Forum where you can see that 6 Dublin teams are getting €1 Million a year - depending on their performance.

This is pittance, say six teams with a panel of 25 and a million split between them comes in at a measly €126.60 cent a week, the same rate as was suggested when the GPA was first formed - I know because at a match in Parnell Park against Galway in 2001 you were playing and you hit a wide from an impossible angle and some smart arse shouted "Is that what you want €126 a week for?.  Anyway, the crux we have is that if all counties were to pay their players what they deserve, €500 a week,  each county would want to have sponsorship of exactly four times what the Dubs are getting.

In a nutshell, counting in London, we want 33 sponsorships of €4 Million a year which is a total of €132 Million. (I have excluded New York by offsetting them by way of giving f**k all to Cork) I am not much concerned about the economy or drop in gate receipts, we must be positive and aim high, I saw there a few weeks ago where the FAI had a crowd from Derry and I think Sligo playing their FA Cup Final at Aviva in front of 41,000 and some of their boyos are on €3,000 a week for Jaysus sake.

The other thing that concerns me is this "performance related" issue. Can you imagine some poor Dub trying to take a penalty that will either put them into the All-Ireland Quarter Finals or out of the Championship and some little whore from Tyrone shouting in at him " Hey, you miss this you lose a million" or worse, the poor lad knowing it himself before he takes the kick.  Having said that, I haven't seen the actual sponsorship contract so the sponsors may not be that regimental, perhaps instead of removing sponsorship they might have included provisions for a simple flogging while tied to the goalpost down at Hill 16.

Let me know if you have any resolutions or ideas regarding the above because them yobos down in Cork are starting to make noises again and the last thing we want on our hands is attention being drawn to us on the same week as the toughest budget in history is about to be unleashed on all of us.

Regards,
T.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 01, 2012, 07:29:27 PM
Quality!
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: Bud Wiser on December 04, 2012, 08:57:03 AM
I see and hear on TV3 that a club down in Limerick have to call in the Gardai beceuse of fifty thousand pounds missing. Placing large amounts of money in temptation of persons who are tempted to put their hand in the biscuit tin will become more of an issue, not just in GAA Clubs but across all organizeations in the next few years.

The GAA are fortunate they have suvh a professional representative body like the GPA and it would be far better if all these 50k's were collected up and sent to Drumcondra and let the GPA distribute it.

Later today I hope to have news on what to do to eliminate this type of affliction that is infecting the GAA. We are already providing a serious amount of support for lads who cant pass by a bookie shop or are engaged with the affliction of On-Line gambling and it should be remembered that we are here to scoop up as much money for players as we can, not run a frigging Carmelite Friary or a Dochas Centre.

Meanwhile, can we ask that everyone keeps their fingers out of the biscuit tins, at least until after the budget tomorrow. Is that too much to ask ?
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: DuffleKing on December 04, 2012, 09:49:35 AM

Reflects well on you to associate a criminal act of theft in one of our constituent clubs with the GPA for the sake of feeding your preoccupation with them
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: NaomhBridAbú on December 04, 2012, 12:24:53 PM

Reflects well on you to associate a criminal act of theft in one of our constituent clubs with the GPA for the sake of feeding your preoccupation with them

+1
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: Rossfan on December 04, 2012, 03:24:39 PM
Bud needs to go back on his tablets pronto  ;D
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: Bud Wiser on December 05, 2012, 06:09:58 AM
You are beginning to sound like the Bishops when the priests were abusing  children all over the country. A bit like those who jump to defend the great name of the gaa when a criminal in a media report is referred to as a member of the gaa. You dont need to be on tablets to know  that with the economy the way it is, that there are people on the bread line and many not as smug as yourselves. Putting sums of 50k in the way of someone who has not got food forthemselves or clothes for their children is no longer an option. When I referred to people putting their hands in the biscuit tin in an earlier post I was unaware of the story that wss about to break over the 50k but I am not that stupid to believe that a similar story to the one with the 50K could not emerge next week.

It is happening all the time and not always discovered and those who put temptation in the way are not to blame. They are just thick or stupid and know no better in the majority of cases. Thats why we need a body like the GPA that can add a more professional touch to things. Pilferage of club money, palming of money at admission points to games where they still use biscuit tins is ultimately a loss to the players wages fund and if clubs or county boards cant protect that then the GPA should.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 05, 2012, 08:36:38 AM
You are beginning to sound like the Bishops when the priests were abusing  children all over the country. A bit like those who jump to defend the great name of the gaa when a criminal in a media report is referred to as a member of the gaa. You dont need to be on tablets to know  that with the economy the way it is, that there are people on the bread line and many not as smug as yourselves. Putting sums of 50k in the way of someone who has not got food forthemselves or clothes for their children is no longer an option. When I referred to people putting their hands in the biscuit tin in an earlier post I was unaware of the story that wss about to break over the 50k but I am not that stupid to believe that a similar story to the one with the 50K could not emerge next week.

It is happening all the time and not always discovered and those who put temptation in the way are not to blame. They are just thick or stupid and know no better in the majority of cases. Thats why we need a body like the GPA that can add a more professional touch to things. Pilferage of club money, palming of money at admission points to games where they still use biscuit tins is ultimately a loss to the players wages fund and if clubs or county boards cant protect that then the GPA should.

That's a bit of a serious allegation.  Got any proof of that?

Your comparison of the GAA to the Catholic Church's systematic cover-up and facilitation of child abusers is noted. I'm trying to resist the urge to lower myself to dignifying that with any further response.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: heffo on December 05, 2012, 09:08:24 AM
You are beginning to sound like the Bishops when the priests were abusing  children all over the country. A bit like those who jump to defend the great name of the gaa when a criminal in a media report is referred to as a member of the gaa. You dont need to be on tablets to know  that with the economy the way it is, that there are people on the bread line and many not as smug as Duffle King. Putting sums of 50k in the way of someone who has not got food forthemselves or clothes for their children is no longer an option. When I referred to people putting their hands in the biscuit tin in an earlier post I was unaware of the story that wss about to break over the 50k but I am not that stupid to believe that a similar story to the one with the 50K could not emerge next week.

It is happening all the time and not always discovered and those who put temptation in the way are not to blame. They are just thick or stupid and know no better in the majority of cases. Thats why we need a body like the GPA that can add a more professional touch to things. Pilferage of club money, palming of money at admission points to games where they still use biscuit tins is ultimately a loss to the players wages fund and if clubs or county boards cant protect that then the GPA should.

Your overall point is a good one Bud but I don't see the GPA as having any interest oir having any remit in getting involved in such issues.

I would say that the deterrent to a club officer/Treasurer pilfering funds is good club structures, a strong committee and a turnover of officers in line with the GAA club constitution.

You still hear of clubs where they've had the same Treasurer or Secretary for the last 45 years - not healthy.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: deiseach on December 05, 2012, 11:03:51 AM
You are beginning to sound like the Bishops when the priests were abusing  children all over the country. A bit like those who jump to defend the great name of the gaa when a criminal in a media report is referred to as a member of the gaa. You dont need to be on tablets to know  that with the economy the way it is, that there are people on the bread line and many not as smug as Duffle King. Putting sums of 50k in the way of someone who has not got food forthemselves or clothes for their children is no longer an option. When I referred to people putting their hands in the biscuit tin in an earlier post I was unaware of the story that wss about to break over the 50k but I am not that stupid to believe that a similar story to the one with the 50K could not emerge next week.

It is happening all the time and not always discovered and those who put temptation in the way are not to blame. They are just thick or stupid and know no better in the majority of cases. Thats why we need a body like the GPA that can add a more professional touch to things. Pilferage of club money, palming of money at admission points to games where they still use biscuit tins is ultimately a loss to the players wages fund and if clubs or county boards cant protect that then the GPA should.

Have to protect people from themselves . . . strong leadership required . . . protecting our interests . . . he who has steel has bread . . . okay, maybe not the last part, but I've seen less emotive talk from people who were subsequently found to be plotting a coup.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: Bud Wiser on December 06, 2012, 01:46:45 AM
Since my laptop drank a mug of Lyons Tea I am using phone so old Bud is not as fast on phone as you younv lads.
On the issue of "have I got any  proof" please go to our mutual friend Mr Google and ask him 'gaa theft'  'gaa fraud'  'gaa money missing'  and come back to me in a weeks time if ye need any more help.

I did not compare the GAA with Bishops in denial, I compared anyone who didnt believe vthat money goes missing from GAA clubs with them and when it comes to dignity a lot of them are still falling short.

Mr Google will tell you that the Ali Baba's in my own county were not afraid to put their hand in the biscuit tin either and if the Vikings came up the Shannon in the morning they would have a hard job match funding the dippers. I remember years ago Laois were playing Cork in a league match and there was a young lad collecting sliothars that went over the wall into the field when all his birthdays came together. A bag with a rock in it and two hundred pound sailed over and he handed it in to Porlaoise Gardai and got it for himself after a yesr and a day because it was never
claimed. I try and console myself on this one by pretending it might have been the share of the gate due to the Cork boys.  To avoid turning this thread into a 'money missing' thread and to get back to the opening question, there are other reasons why I have softened toward the GPA although I have reservations about the Cork boys presence and I would be against them for their tendency to go on parade around the streets if they dont grt their way but shur my next letter to the real leaders will resolve that.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 06, 2012, 07:43:15 AM
On the issue of "have I got any  proof" please go to our mutual friend Mr Google and ask him 'gaa theft'  'gaa fraud'  'gaa money missing'  and come back to me in a weeks time if ye need any more help.

No, Bud, it doesn't work like that.  You're the one making the allegation -- you produce the evidence.  Don't ask me to make your argument for you.  Either produce the evidence or shut up.

Quote
I did not compare the GAA with Bishops in denial,

Yes you did.  You said "You are beginning to sound like the Bishops when the priests were abusing  children all over the country."

Quote
I compared anyone who didnt believe vthat money goes missing from GAA clubs with them and when it comes to dignity a lot of them are still falling short.

Put those goalposts back where you got them. Nobody said there has never been fraud in the GAA ever.  Your claim is that it's as rife in the GAA as child abuse was in the Christian Brothers schools.  So far all you've given us as evidence is a single incident years ago when a couple of hundred quid was thrown over a wall and picked up by some young lad who handed it in to the cops.  Not exactly the Great Train Robbery now, is it?  Hardly evidence that every single club and county board is run by thieves.

I sometimes wonder what some people around here actually do for the GAA apart from gripe about it.  Given the amount of hours that I've put into the organisation over the years (before we even start on the out-of-pocket expenses that I don't get back) the idea that people like me are "on the take" is offensive.

Grade: F-

Must do better.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: Declan on December 13, 2012, 08:02:12 AM
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/1213/1224327801995.html (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/1213/1224327801995.html)

Interesting Interview with Dessie today
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: thewobbler on February 13, 2020, 03:32:00 PM
Given their militant response yesterday, I sincerely hope the GPA organise a strike.

A very appropriate response from the GAA would be to cancel the county season for 2020 in its entirety, use their now bountiful reserves to support the Association for the season, and top it up with a few more concerts at Croke.

At the end of all that, this shower of c***ts might just learn their real place.





Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: caprea on February 13, 2020, 04:01:44 PM
Given their militant response yesterday, I sincerely hope the GPA organise a strike.

A very appropriate response from the GAA would be to cancel the county season for 2020 in its entirety, use their now bountiful reserves to support the Association for the season, and top it up with a few more concerts at Croke.

At the end of all that, this shower of c***ts might just learn their real place.

Where do you think they stand in the association given the county game has brought in revenue of 70 million?
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: thewobbler on February 13, 2020, 04:25:26 PM
Given their militant response yesterday, I sincerely hope the GPA organise a strike.

A very appropriate response from the GAA would be to cancel the county season for 2020 in its entirety, use their now bountiful reserves to support the Association for the season, and top it up with a few more concerts at Croke.

At the end of all that, this shower of c***ts might just learn their real place.

Where do you think they stand in the association given the county game has brought in revenue of 70 million?


They are at a point where because they’ve chosen to spend 31 hours per week pursuing a hobby, that they want improved rewards for doing so.

They are not yet at the point of realisation that large GAA crowds do not go watch players, they go to watch their counties. Hence you could fit the entire crowd for a Sigerson Cup final, or a Railway Cup final into a d4 club ground.

They are not yet at the point of realisation that centrally the GAA’s revenues are up, but county boards are going bankrupt trying to meet their demands.

They are not yet at the point of realisation that their secretive and paranoid approach to business is elitist and generates mistrust, and will be their undoing.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: caprea on February 13, 2020, 04:45:58 PM
Given their militant response yesterday, I sincerely hope the GPA organise a strike.

A very appropriate response from the GAA would be to cancel the county season for 2020 in its entirety, use their now bountiful reserves to support the Association for the season, and top it up with a few more concerts at Croke.

At the end of all that, this shower of c***ts might just learn their real place.

Where do you think they stand in the association given the county game has brought in revenue of 70 million?


They are at a point where because they’ve chosen to spend 31 hours per week pursuing a hobby, that they want improved rewards for doing so.

They are not yet at the point of realisation that large GAA crowds do not go watch players, they go to watch their counties. Hence you could fit the entire crowd for a Sigerson Cup final, or a Railway Cup final into a d4 club ground.

Yes you are correct, people don’t care if it’s david Clifford, ciaran Kilkenny and Aidan O’Shea they are paying to see or if it’s random decent club players from Mayo, Dublin and Kerry. They’ll still show up in huge numbers and pay for 50 euro- 100 euro for tickets. And the tv deals and the sponsors will be just as interested. Yes that is complete fact.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: thewobbler on February 13, 2020, 05:03:54 PM
Crowds of 5,000 are a regular enough occurrence for McKenna Cup games between intercounty B and C teams.

There are not 5,000 people who have watched David Clifford playing in the flesh for IT Tralee over the past 3 seasons. And he’s the best and most high profile young player to appear in generations.

These are facts.

——-

But you are of course entitled to make assumptions.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 13, 2020, 05:06:50 PM
Given their militant response yesterday, I sincerely hope the GPA organise a strike.

A very appropriate response from the GAA would be to cancel the county season for 2020 in its entirety, use their now bountiful reserves to support the Association for the season, and top it up with a few more concerts at Croke.

At the end of all that, this shower of c***ts might just learn their real place.

Where do you think they stand in the association given the county game has brought in revenue of 70 million?


They are at a point where because they’ve chosen to spend 31 hours per week pursuing a hobby, that they want improved rewards for doing so.

They are not yet at the point of realisation that large GAA crowds do not go watch players, they go to watch their counties. Hence you could fit the entire crowd for a Sigerson Cup final, or a Railway Cup final into a d4 club ground.

They are not yet at the point of realisation that centrally the GAA’s revenues are up, but county boards are going bankrupt trying to meet their demands.

They are not yet at the point of realisation that their secretive and paranoid approach to business is elitist and generates mistrust, and will be their undoing.

+1. If the individual players were the only reason the big crowds show up, the Railway Cup would be selling out in Croke Park every year. The GPA are a shower of angry young men with a combination of a persecution complex and some ideas above their station.
Title: Re: The GPA
Post by: caprea on February 13, 2020, 05:10:37 PM
Crowds of 5,000 are a regular enough occurrence for McKenna Cup games between intercounty B and C teams.

There are not 5,000 people who have watched David Clifford playing in the flesh for IT Tralee over the past 3 seasons. And he’s the best and most high profile young player to appear in generations.

These are facts.

——-

But you are of course entitled to make assumptions.

Dead right, sure I remember when the first teamers of Cork and Limerick hurlers went on strike. Big crowds ensued who didn’t care that the best players weren’t playing. It all ended well as I recall.