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GAA Discussion => Local GAA Discussion => Antrim => Topic started by: Buswhacker on April 13, 2012, 12:32:03 PM

Title: Professionalism in the G.A.A.
Post by: Buswhacker on April 13, 2012, 12:32:03 PM
Andy Ward is reported as advocating professionalism in the G.A.A. He reckons that if players are training etc. like professionals at the top end of the sport,they should be paid like professionals. He could have a point.
Title: Re: Professionalism in the G.A.A.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2012, 12:35:49 PM
Been to any games at Casement recently? no crowds no real big sponsorship and no money!!! What will we pay them?

Answers on the back of a second class stamp please :o
Title: Re: Professionalism in the G.A.A.
Post by: oisinog on April 13, 2012, 12:38:53 PM
MR2 a big problem within GAA is they do not promote our games enough. We need more cross community involvment in the north.

If they were to go professional the rugby set up is perfect to follow
Title: Re: Professionalism in the G.A.A.
Post by: lonely1 on April 13, 2012, 12:44:01 PM
Andy couldn't get a role in his own code that some fools we going to pay his going rate, so my advice is Andy stay the fck out! Clubs are struggling, club players the "Backbone" of our association are struggling and he wants more reddies! We have far too many paid "Coaches" at the minute doing sweet FA, the funding would be better used at a local level to help the kids etc etc, or we will soon find we have nothing for the future. We are now fully in the expense culture and soon that bubble has to burst, we just can't sustain it.
Title: Re: Professionalism in the G.A.A.
Post by: lonely1 on April 13, 2012, 12:46:24 PM
Two tier system Oisinog, take a look at the clubs in belfast that have had to merge, played it long enough to know it doesn't benefit the grass roots, the Methodist team that just won the schools cup has already lost 4 of the winning side, and that's schools rugby!
Title: Re: Professionalism in the G.A.A.
Post by: imtommygunn on April 13, 2012, 12:47:14 PM
As MR says how would we have the resources do pay them much anyway? Attendances etc not great in antrim.

Then where do you draw the line with clubs / counties etc. Rugby you can transfer - what do you do with transfers? Why should one county player get more than another? Is it up to county boards to manage wages?

Cross community is all well and good - we need more of "our own" community!

Professionalism would be the ruination of the GAA in my view. It would be a nightmare to manage.

Title: Re: Professionalism in the G.A.A.
Post by: Buswhacker on April 13, 2012, 01:02:33 PM
If we want to save money,why don't we sell off some of the many under used club grounds,that are costing a fortune to maintain
I would like to know the cost of paying for and keeping these places going.Clubs could surely share facilities in many cases,I can think of a few.
Title: Re: Professionalism in the G.A.A.
Post by: oisinog on April 13, 2012, 01:05:12 PM
I used rugby as a basis as all the wages for Irish players are paid by the irfu.

The players playing at intercounty level would be paid and keep the club game amature and allow the professionals to play for both club and county.

If it was going to work within the GAA central council would have to pay the players as all gate money goes to them anyway. As the central council would be paying the players wages they can cap the wages to prevent players from moving from county to county looking for more money.

I would prefer to keep the amature status but It is possible to set up a professional system that can work.

Its a good debate to bring up if the sport was to go professional how would you like it managed
Title: Re: Professionalism in the G.A.A.
Post by: imtommygunn on April 13, 2012, 02:31:42 PM
I would prefer to keep the amature status but It is possible to set up a professional system that can work.

I personally don't think it is. While rugby could be considered a "template" for turning professional it's really the international and provincial games that generate the crux of the revenue. It is these players who get paid. You try to transfer that to the GAA model than it's July /August where the guts of your revenue will be generated. Take our own county for example - it's not that often we're at the end of the championship so where do we get the money or how then do central council etc distribute it?

Rugby's international and inter provincial nature lend itself to being professional. We have none of that.

Antrim would in general have 4 home league games, either code, and then x championship games with x being a lot less than any of us would like generally! That's nto great in terms of revenue potential. Yes sponsorship etc would help that however you get better sponsorship for going further and thus success breeds success from a financial viewpoint.

Sell underused club grounds? Who pays for the club grounds buswhacker? Some clubs who have grounds of county standard (and thus delegated county grounds) may get some money however clubs own their own grounds and they maintain them themselves. Which ones are underused as well? (Maybe it's the ones which don't play division 1 ;)) That's not in any way a viable option.

Title: Re: Professionalism in the G.A.A.
Post by: oisinog on April 13, 2012, 03:19:31 PM
There would have to be a major restructure of the league and championship to allow the game to go professional.

If it is possible you would need at least a 12 team league home and away played over a longer period.
Title: Re: Professionalism in the G.A.A.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2012, 03:28:32 PM
Under used club grounds??? Are you mental? Come down to Milltown Row any day ya like and see how under used it is 'shakes head'
Title: Re: Professionalism in the G.A.A.
Post by: Buswhacker on April 13, 2012, 04:44:49 PM
What type of game is "shakes head".
Title: Re: Professionalism in the G.A.A.
Post by: AhJaysusRef on April 13, 2012, 05:09:29 PM
Aside from the logistics of how it would be administered, do you think that players should be paid?

I would estimate that inter county athletes  sacrifice at least 20 hours per week for their sport. This time is taken up by matches, trainings, gym sessions, physio appointments, travelling, rehabilitation, sourcing and preparing the right food & supplements, preparing equipment, mentally preparing.

Such a large amount of used time impacts other factors in their lives -

less time with their partners & children,
disruption with their jobs from having to work through lunch & leave early, being tired from a heavy session the day before & lack of concentration all of which leads to slower career progession
disjointed study time for students
mental stress from not performing well
criticism from less informed and ignorant supporters
falling out of most other social circles (this is important because players can be cast aside when their career is over)
difficulty maintaining friendships with non-gaa friends
no time to enjoy other things - music, relaxing, travel, weekends, nights out, nights in, quality food & drink,
managers instilling a tunnel-vision which leads to under-developed social skills

There is no doubt that being an inter county player carries a lot of benefits and perks. Some guys would say that they had the best times and experienced the most euphoric feelings of their lives playing gaa. However when their career is over it can be hard to recreate these highs.

I feel that the amount of sacrifices they make greatly outweighs the benefits receive.

Surely this is worth some form of retainer, no matter how small?
Title: Re: Professionalism in the G.A.A.
Post by: Arthur_Friend on April 13, 2012, 09:47:27 PM
I'm sure each individual can judge for themselves whether the sacrifice is worth it.
Title: Re: Professionalism in the G.A.A.
Post by: hardstation on April 14, 2012, 12:09:29 AM
Read what Ward had to say on Hoganstand. He still has no clue about basic concepts of GAA.

Strength and conditioning, Mr. Ward, strength and conditioning.
Title: Re: Professionalism in the G.A.A.
Post by: Last Man on April 15, 2012, 08:25:05 AM
Andy Ward is reported as advocating professionalism in the G.A.A. He reckons that if players are training etc. like professionals at the top end of the sport,they should be paid like professionals. He could have a point.
Yes because he's thinking about what he can get out of it ffs. Rugby players with an Ulster contract NEVER play for their clubs, that's good isn't....wouldn't be much point putting men on the gate to lift money for a Dunloy.L'geil,C'dall,St.Galls( ;)) game.
It costs me hundreds of pounds/ year to coach and play a wee bit in our club in fact in a few of the recent years alot more and i wouldn't begrudge a penny of it.
So yous are after an army of paid administrators and coaching staff, 100 salaried hurlers and footballers (with monthly photo shoots in the Ulster Tatler), a few extra beer tents and gourmet burger vans at Casement, increased ticket prices...................Aye that would be great.........................ANTRIM ANTRIM ANTRIM ANTRIM :o ::)
Title: Re: Professionalism in the G.A.A.
Post by: Buswhacker on April 15, 2012, 12:44:48 PM
Aye but there are still people coining it. Are some managers paid,and don't give me the " expenses" story.This question can never get a straight, honest no nonsense answer. ARE SOME MANAGERS BEING PAID BOTH AT CLUB AND COUNTY LEVEL ?......... an honest answer from some of "our holier than thou" posters,who seem to know everything.
Title: Re: Professionalism in the G.A.A.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 15, 2012, 12:51:33 PM
Aye but there are still people coining it. Are some managers paid,and don't give me the " expenses" story.This question can never get a straight, honest no nonsense answer. ARE SOME MANAGERS BEING PAID BOTH AT CLUB AND COUNTY LEVEL ?......... an honest answer from some of "our holier than thou" posters,who seem to know everything.

Cant believe you used 'aye but' in first line!! .How much was loughgiels managers getting ?
Title: Re: Professionalism in the G.A.A.
Post by: Buswhacker on April 15, 2012, 01:31:23 PM
And while we're at it why are no receipt admission tickets issued at GAA games.
Title: Re: Professionalism in the G.A.A.
Post by: Last Man on April 15, 2012, 02:13:57 PM
And while we're at it why are no receipt admission tickets issued at GAA games.
Fair enough Whack none of us say its right as it stands but there are few round loughgiel trumpeting the assistance of a certain benefactor in their recent good fortune nor are there many of us who would be slating said person as we understand his motives, but what you are proposing is a whole different thing and I believe would spell the end for all but the top clubs.
think you need to start doing some work at the grass roots to see what some people actually do only for the love of it.
Title: Re: Professionalism in the G.A.A.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 15, 2012, 05:09:01 PM
Aye but there are still people coining it. Are some managers paid,and don't give me the " expenses" story.This question can never get a straight, honest no nonsense answer. ARE SOME MANAGERS BEING PAID BOTH AT CLUB AND COUNTY LEVEL ?......... an honest answer from some of "our holier than thou" posters,who seem to know everything.

Cant believe you used 'aye but' in first line!! .How much was loughgiels managers getting ?

BUMP!!
Title: Re: Professionalism in the G.A.A.
Post by: Buswhacker on April 15, 2012, 06:20:47 PM
I'm proposing nothing, just soliciting opinion on the issue.And by the way........."bump"as stated by that other fiendishly subtle poster who's name escapes me.
Title: Re: Professionalism in the G.A.A.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 15, 2012, 06:39:39 PM
I was only asking a question which you haven't answered, it's your thread by the way
Title: Re: Professionalism in the G.A.A.
Post by: imtommygunn on April 15, 2012, 06:43:44 PM
Buswhacker your post about underused club grounds intrigues me.

What makes you think that some club grounds are being underused?

Also if the club owns the ground why should the GAA get money from it? How would the logistics of that work??
Title: Re: Professionalism in the G.A.A.
Post by: Buswhacker on April 15, 2012, 06:45:40 PM
I know it's my thread,just asking opinions.Loughgiel's manager doesn't get paid, despite his unprecedented success in Antrim and Ireland,but some do, from what I hear.
Title: Re: Professionalism in the G.A.A.
Post by: Interesting on April 15, 2012, 06:47:52 PM
A very interesting debate regarding professionalism in the GAA. How does the principal sit with the GAA 'ethos' and the thousands of volunteers we have. Just where would the revenue be generated given that we are a 'unique' sport to a limited number of people, even in our own country. Mind you some would say there is already professionalism in our organisation. Some 'managers', coaches, trainers being brought in and getting paid through what is called 'expenses'.

Bushwhacker you guys must have felt the impact of some of this as a result of your recent All Ireland campaign, trips away, training/injury expenses etc. What would be a ball park figure of your outlay? 
Title: Re: Professionalism in the G.A.A.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 15, 2012, 06:51:37 PM
Jim travels down there for free? A nd the trainer? He gets nowt?

Interesting, we've been recently to Croke a few times, with the hurling and football and it has cost us a clean fortune. If we
 were lucky enough to get back then we'd need 30 grand. Thats about a ball park figure
Title: Re: Professionalism in the G.A.A.
Post by: Buswhacker on April 15, 2012, 07:02:17 PM
Shamamateurism or hypocrisy, call it what you will,nobody wants to be the one to face it square on. Sweep it below the carpet in our time honoured fashion.
Title: Re: Professionalism in the G.A.A.
Post by: Last Man on April 15, 2012, 07:26:26 PM
I know it's my thread,just asking opinions.Loughgiel's manager doesn't get paid, despite his unprecedented success in Antrim and Ireland,but some do, from what I hear.
But your tone advocates professionalism, as i see it the paid manager/coach situation is at an all time low which is suits most of us just fine and has forced the mercenaries back to their lairs for the time being and might help clubs realise they should develop talent from within instead of throwing money up the road.
Maybe your just conceding no Nelson, no Tom Moore??
Title: Re: Professionalism in the G.A.A.
Post by: Interesting on April 15, 2012, 07:48:01 PM
Milltown-Interesting, we've been recently to Croke a few times, with the hurling and football and it has cost us a clean fortune. If we
 were lucky enough to get back then we'd need 30 grand. Thats about a ball park figure.

I am not surprised at the figure. And to the majority of clubs in the GAA that's massive.

Bushwhacker- Your post, your topic. So we can develop the debate. Just a ball park figure of what it cost you?
Title: Re: Professionalism in the G.A.A.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 15, 2012, 07:53:27 PM
Shamamateurism or hypocrisy, call it what you will,nobody wants to be the one to face it square on. Sweep it below the carpet in our time honoured fashion.

So what is your point? Should players and managers get paid? Should no one get paid or just the players?

I'm not sure where the money is coming from. If the pitches are under used and sold meaning pitch maintenance money is saved, will that be enough to pay players, managers, kit men trainers, chairmen, lotto ticket sellers, bar staff!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Professionalism in the G.A.A.
Post by: Buswhacker on April 15, 2012, 07:55:18 PM
Last man .....are you suggesting no Nelson no Tom Moore?.....I'm conceding nothing.I'm just fed up with this hypocrisy which you and the GAA  in general seem to condone.
Title: Re: Professionalism in the G.A.A.
Post by: Interesting on April 15, 2012, 08:03:31 PM
Come on Bushwhacker, just a ball park figure................
Title: Re: Professionalism in the G.A.A.
Post by: Interesting on April 15, 2012, 08:09:37 PM
No hurry with that Bushwhacker, I appreciate you have to consult the book keeper. (Oh, don't inlcude any subsidies you may have made to ex (or current) professional soccer players.


In the meantime can you tell me which clubs you would condemn to history by closing down their pitches?
Title: Re: Professionalism in the G.A.A.
Post by: Last Man on April 15, 2012, 08:42:14 PM
Last man .....are you suggesting no Nelson no Tom Moore?.....I'm conceding nothing.I'm just fed up with this hypocrisy which you and the GAA  in general seem to condone.
I'll take the hook out and throw you back now ;D
No I'm not suggesting that but its rare to find anything without flaws in life and that includes the GAA. Sorry fella what you are suggesting will not help anything.
Can't understand why your so anti GAA atm?
Title: Re: Professionalism in the G.A.A.
Post by: Buswhacker on April 15, 2012, 09:05:30 PM
Not anti GAA, just anti hypocrisy...understand that?...Last Man.

Interesting....... one word ...Amalgamation, it has worked elsewhere.Some places are struggling to field a team, a pity, but it's not going to get any better.

If you want to consult me at any time about problems within the GAA, feel free. I'll be away for a couple of weeks,but will do my best to help you when I get back.

Title: Re: Professionalism in the G.A.A.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 15, 2012, 09:12:45 PM
Not anti GAA, just anti hypocrisy...understand that?...Last Man.

Interesting....... one word ...Amalgamation, it has worked elsewhere.Some places are struggling to field a team, a pity, but it's not going to get any better.

If you want to consult me at any time about problems within the GAA, feel free. I'll be away for a couple of weeks,but will do my best to help you when I get back.

Change the thread title then, it's very confusing. What 'clubs' in Antrim do you know pay their managers
Title: Re: Professionalism in the G.A.A.
Post by: Interesting on April 15, 2012, 09:14:20 PM
Buswhacker- Hypocrisy????? Don't worry I will come to that.

Ok, so you part answered one question, amalgamation. Enlighten us please, which teams,


What about the ball park figure for your all Ireland campaign, you seem to be a bit shy on that one. Why is this?
Title: Re: Professionalism in the G.A.A.
Post by: Buswhacker on April 15, 2012, 09:41:35 PM
Give you all the benefit of my expertise when I return.
Not privy to " ball park figures", whatever that is, sounds vaguely Americanised.
Amalgamation ....obvious,even to me.
Hypocrisy....obvious to everyone,except those who will not see or don't want to see. End of story.






Title: Re: Professionalism in the G.A.A.
Post by: Last Man on April 15, 2012, 10:19:32 PM
Not anti GAA, just anti hypocrisy...understand that?...Last Man.

Interesting....... one word ...Amalgamation, it has worked elsewhere.Some places are struggling to field a team, a pity, but it's not going to get any better.

If you want to consult me at any time about problems within the GAA, feel free. I'll be away for a couple of weeks,but will do my best to help you when I get back.
Its alright fella I wouldn't be consulting yourself, you are only bouncing tabloid headlines. You need to channel this pent up energy in more productive ways.
Title: Re: Professionalism in the G.A.A.
Post by: imtommygunn on April 15, 2012, 10:35:13 PM
Buswhacker any debate with you involved in it just moves to you spouting utter nonsense and ruining it. Had the potential to be interesting to - pity.
Title: Re: Professionalism in the G.A.A.
Post by: Buswhacker on April 15, 2012, 10:41:22 PM
Sorry about that,I'll lose a lot of sleep about you're opinion of me. As for spouting rubbish,you could teach us all.2930 posts of it.