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Non GAA Discussion => General discussion => Topic started by: Boolerhead Mel on January 06, 2009, 03:54:19 PM

Title: Buying a house
Post by: Boolerhead Mel on January 06, 2009, 03:54:19 PM
Looking for some help.

I have an offer on my house which I want to accept. However looking at property news and estate agent websites it seems that few are dropping prices.(I took 100 grand off mine). The houses I am after have not dropped in price as far as I can see and are still sitting at 180-200 grand since  last summer with frankly no chance of going at that price-Shoud I just call estate agents and be as bold as brass and say "I'm not paying you that I can go to 30-40 grand under" would the hang up the phone or would they be prepared to haggle and go back to the vendors. Given that there is a further slump on the cards is my plan a goer. I would like the hear the thoughts of any of you invovled in the building industry and estate agency trade in the north

Thanks   
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: orangeman on January 06, 2009, 03:57:53 PM
I think if there was house on the markey for £200k and you rang up and offered £140k they'd invite you round for tea and see if you'd go to £160k.


You have to be as bold as brass - it's a buyers market and with interest rates dropping further, then bargains are there to be had.



Don't go by the asking price. It's merely an indicative figure to show you what a bargain you're getting by buying at 50k less.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Minder on January 06, 2009, 03:58:59 PM
Dont offer what it is on for, we were looking at a house last week for £160k that has been for sale for 9 months. My missus works for the Halifax, she contacted a surveyor she knows from Halifax Estate Agencies and he said to offer £120k...............
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Onion Bag on January 06, 2009, 04:04:47 PM
Looking for some help.

I have an offer on my house which I want to accept. However looking at property news and estate agent websites it seems that few are dropping prices.(I took 100 grand off mine). The houses I am after have not dropped in price as far as I can see and are still sitting at 180-200 grand since  last summer with frankly no chance of going at that price-Shoud I just call estate agents and be as bold as brass and say "I'm not paying you that I can go to 30-40 grand under" would the hang up the phone or would they be prepared to haggle and go back to the vendors. Given that there is a further slump on the cards is my plan a goer. I would like the hear the thoughts of any of you invovled in the building industry and estate agency trade in the north

Thanks   



Always remember they need the sale, so lift the phone and ask them what is the lowest they are prepared to go, dont mention a figure, you might shoot yourself in the foot, put the ball in their court, and when they come back with their figure, then get stuck into the haggling,

As someone has already stated it is a buyers market at the min so everything is stacked in your favour,

Go for it and good luck

Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: SidelineKick on January 06, 2009, 04:07:30 PM
Without doubt absolutely no vendors will be expecting to get what they are asking for.  They will be expecting to get well below the asking price so don't be afraid to start ludicrously low and work your way gradually up to a point where you are both happy.

It will all depend on whether or not they are in a rush to sell, they may be happy enough to wait it out.

Definitely definitely chance your arm and don't be afraid to be bold as brass.  If the market was the other way around you think they would be doing you any favours? They would be holding out and holding out.  The ball is very much in your court.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: mylestheslasher on January 06, 2009, 04:08:23 PM
They most certainly will talk to you and try and meet half way between what you offer and what the guy wants. They want to sell the house too, even though primarily represent the seller, as they make commission on it. They'll be going back to the seller reminding them of the current climate and that in 6 months time they might be greatful for your offer. Give it a try - what do you have to lose?
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: D4S on January 06, 2009, 04:11:07 PM
Definitely offer way less, in my experience in the last year estate agents dont bother to update their websites cos there's nothing selling!

We bought our house in February last year 2storey semi only built 3 years!  It had been on the market from summer 07 when things just began to slow down a bit, in January they dropped asking price from 185k to 175k!  We were bold knowing it had been on ages and offered 145000!  It was rejected and we went back to agent and said what would be the lowest the seller would be prepared to go, he came back and said 155k.  We offered 150 and said it would be our final offer, seller thought about it for 2 days and then came back and accepted.  Living in it now it's great it's our first home.  I think any1 selling at the minute will be glad to offload their homes for a lot less.  Just to add it's 11months since our offer accepted, the other houses for sale in the development are still on the market, there were around 4 at the time, asking price is now 125! We don't mind though as it was right for us at the time, if we'd waited to now we wouldnt get a mortgage anyway.  Also we plan on being here for at least 10 years so i'd hope the housing market will have recoverd by then and we will make a profit:)!
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Onion Bag on January 06, 2009, 04:15:07 PM
Definitely offer way less, in my experience in the last year estate agents dont bother to update their websites cos there's nothing selling!

We bought our house in February last year 2storey semi only built 3 years!  It had been on the market from summer 07 when things just began to slow down a bit, in January they dropped asking price from 185k to 175k!  We were bold knowing it had been on ages and offered 145000!  It was rejected and we went back to agent and said what would be the lowest the seller would be prepared to go, he came back and said 155k.  We offered 150 and said it would be our final offer, seller thought about it for 2 days and then came back and accepted.  Living in it now it's great it's our first home.  I think any1 selling at the minute will be glad to offload their homes for a lot less.  Just to add it's 11months since our offer accepted, the other houses for sale in the development are still on the market, there were around 4 at the time, asking price is now 125! We don't mind though as it was right for us at the time, if we'd waited to now we wouldnt get a mortgage anyway.  Also we plan on being here for at least 10 years so i'd hope the housing market will have recoverd by then and we will make a profit:)!

Exactly, get them to come up with the figure, coz they will have a lowest and haggle like f**k from there
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: StGallsGAA on January 06, 2009, 04:19:16 PM
I bought a house a few weeks back for £82k that was on the market for £170k last year.

If I were you I would hold off until your house has completed.  You are then a cash buyer and not subject to sale.  That is the time to start negotiating.   House sellers & Estate Agents cream their jocks when a cash buyer turns up as there are hardly any about.    Those with a house to sell are considered worthless as buyers.  Even with your house agreed you are not in a strong postion to negotiate as half of these fall through before the 6-8 weeks it take to complete the sale.
 
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Onion Bag on January 06, 2009, 04:23:07 PM
I bought a house a few weeks back for £82k that was on the market for £170k last year.

If I were you I would hold off until your house has completed.  You are then a cash buyer and not subject to sale.  That is the time to start negoatiating.   House sellers & Estate Agents cream their jocks when a cash buyer turns up.    Those with a house to sell are considered worthless as buyers.



Holy f**k StGalls, cheap house, you mind telling me where you purchased, (I dont need the exact postcode if you know what i mean) that is some drop
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: tyrone86 on January 06, 2009, 04:24:50 PM
Lone Shark had a great post on houses / prices of houses on the Big Bailout thread (i think, don't have time to look) that you'd do well to read.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: boojangles on January 06, 2009, 06:42:47 PM
Lone Shark had a great post on houses / prices of houses on the Big Bailout thread (i think, don't have time to look) that you'd do well to read.
Im not qualified but Im studying Property and Auctioneering at the moment and StGallsGAA has given you the best bit of advice.You could knock alot off the asking price if you have your own house sold,a cash sale is worth so much more to everybody involved.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: magickingdom on January 06, 2009, 07:04:49 PM
there are almost no houses selling in ireland at the minute. your bid should be rock bottom and even then have a good think about it
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: FL/MAYO on January 06, 2009, 08:15:54 PM
I agree with Magic Kingdom, the bottom as not fallen out of the market yet in Ireland, I believe you are still a year behind in whats happening in the States, prices here are at least half of what they were 3 years ago for example around here places that were sold for $485000 three years ago are now going for $160000. Buyers market for sure every where at the moment.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: milltown row on January 06, 2009, 08:20:42 PM
good time to buy a house, get intrest free if the payments are too much

 i was lucky, won my house on the lotto, free wedding free house oh and won my jeep on a scratch card. this recession is great
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: the derg on January 06, 2009, 08:54:50 PM
the market in the north is very stagnent at the minute so def dont be afraid to bid low it all depends on when someone bought a house in relation to what they can take for it if your house has completed then ensure you can get a mortgage and haggle but it is a good time to buy
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Bogball XV on January 06, 2009, 09:00:59 PM
current best predictions see at least 30% more of a drop over the next year - sell your own as quickly as you can and then you can either buy or rent, either way you call the shots.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: FermGael on January 07, 2009, 11:13:25 AM
Thinking about buying myself and have made a few offers in the last while way below market values.
No luck though.  Estate agents and Sellers have not altered there selling prices from 18 months ago.
Nationwide stated yesterday that prices in Northern Ireland had fallen by 34% and it was the region hit the hardest because prices rose so quickly here.
Rule of thumb for me is that your property house should only cost 3-3.5 times your salary.
Oh and you need at least a 15% deposit to get a decent mortgage at the moment.
90% mortgages are a thing of the past.

A good website that gives you the capital value of a property is http://vlistdcv.lpsni.gov.uk/districts.asp (http://vlistdcv.lpsni.gov.uk/districts.asp).

Unlike england or wales, they is no website that tells you exactly what property is selling at.  You have to pay £3 and view them through public records i think.

Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Hardy on January 07, 2009, 11:27:40 AM
Unlike england or wales, they is no website that tells you exactly what property is selling at.  You have to pay £3 and view them through public records i think.


I think that's because practically no property is selling. There's no market and nobody really has a clue how much property in general is worth, until people start to sell.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: the Deel Rover on January 07, 2009, 11:34:42 AM
Unlike england or wales, they is no website that tells you exactly what property is selling at.  You have to pay £3 and view them through public records i think.


I think that's because practically no property is selling. There's no market and nobody really has a clue how much property in general is worth, until people start to sell.


well there is definatley nothing selling in north mayo at the moment as you said hardy people are just taking their house off the market and even if the seller did get a buyer the banks aren't giving them a mortgage its just a pity they weren't as prudent a few years ago.   
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: FermGael on January 07, 2009, 11:44:28 AM
Unlike england or wales, they is no website that tells you exactly what property is selling at.  You have to pay £3 and view them through public records i think.


I think that's because practically no property is selling. There's no market and nobody really has a clue how much property in general is worth, until people start to sell.

Hardy i know of one house in the area that i am looking that was agreed for sale before Christmas.
Sale price was £150'000.  Know the couple fairly well.
They had a good rethink about it over Christmas and have decided that they are paying far too much.  No longer going to buy the property.
Seen the property back up on the Estate agent's website today and they are looking £180'000 for it.

Now if people are having reservations at £150'000, how the hell  are they going to flog it at £30'000 more?


Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Hereiam on January 07, 2009, 12:03:29 PM
Have heard that some banks are refusing to pay out the last payments to people on their mortgage's. What is happening is that people have went to the banks and asked for say 200 k which was all agreed then when it comes to the final payment the banks are sending out their surveyor's and they then value the house alot less so then retain the final payment leaving you in the shit. Worth keeping an eye on
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: under the bar on January 07, 2009, 12:20:39 PM
Quote
Now if people are having reservations at £150'000, how the hell  are they going to flog it at £30'000 more?

It's the estate agents way of trying to get the vendor a price they'll accept, while making the purchaser feel they've got a bargain.   If it was still priced at £150k then it's unlikey to attract may offers much over £100k.    By putting the price up to £180k the unsuspecting may offer £130k and the vendor will then accept (take their arm off).  Everyone happy.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: magickingdom on January 07, 2009, 07:16:47 PM
another good rule of thumb would be 20 years rent, if the house would rent for 650pm then 650*12*20 then 156k isn't outrageous (warning rents may fall). i know people in dublin that paid E675,000 for houses that they could have rented for E1,750pm (max i would have paid E420,000) crazy
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: FŪor Gael on January 09, 2009, 01:15:30 PM
I'm on the verge of buying a new house, how much in fees is it likely to cost me? solicitor, mortage etc?
What's the best way to go about getting a mortgage? I've just been getting a general guide using online mortage calculators and the mortage supermarket?
Who's the best/cheapest to sort these things out?
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: FermGael on January 09, 2009, 01:22:38 PM
get independent financial advice.  There is usually one in every big town.
To get a decent mortgage you will need at least a 15% deposit of your total agreed price.

Solicitors will charge anything from 0.5% to 2.5% of the total price.  shop around.
£250 to get the house checked out by the mortgage crowd, to make sure it's worth what you are paying.
There are other hidden costs, just cannot think of them of the top of my head.

If you can, wait a while until buying.  House prices are going down and unless you are getting a good bargain,
you may find yourself in negative equity in 12 months time
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: bailestil on March 09, 2009, 07:19:15 PM
Are house prices still in free-fall?

I've noticed some properties in the newspapers and online sites and they haven't moved at all.
House prices here in derry still seem so much higher than similar places in the UK.
And it sure as hell isn't because of better wages or job prospects here.

are Estate agents heads still in the sands? or are the prices listed no-where near what they are really expecting?
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: midLouth on March 09, 2009, 07:22:25 PM
The problem is that the price taken is never made public, so they won't shift the advertised price much but they'll shift the price they'll actually take. I'm not sure who they think they are kidding, they must be bricking themselves because once it comes down it'll be a long time before it goes up again.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: bailestil on March 09, 2009, 07:27:50 PM
i'm not sure how things can pick up anytime in the near future.
Anyone who could afford a house bought one in the last 3 years, after beig scared into not "missing the boat".

Now you need a 10% deposit minimum. Most First-time buyers can't get their heads around having to save up to buy a house and not being able to move into it fully furnished, new kitchen, new bathroom etc.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Yes I Would on March 09, 2009, 08:36:38 PM
Houses that are priced and marketed realistically to show the 35-40% drop in value over this past 18 months will have a chance of shifting.
Those sellers with their heads in the sand have no chance..  Will def see more activity this year from 1st time buyers but values wont be moving forward anytime soon.
New developments seem to be moving as many builders have been forced to be flexible to get properties moving..
This is all well but job security for many and 15/20% deposits still being sought by some lenders isnt helping the situation.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Our Nail Loney on March 09, 2009, 08:37:13 PM
good time to buy a house, get intrest free if the payments are too much

 i was lucky, won my house on the lotto, free wedding free house oh and won my jeep on a scratch card. this recession is great

Are you being serious MR??
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Minder on March 09, 2009, 08:43:50 PM
People should not panic too much about missing the boat now, when interest rates go back up, and they will, the amount of repossesions mean buyers will have their pick.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: tyronefan on March 09, 2009, 09:25:21 PM
meanwhile you keep paying rent which is money down the drain

Interest rates will at some stage go up again but will be some time down the road.

Now seems to be as good a time as any to buy a house as most builders are prepared to do a deal on a house at the minute if sit and talk to them.

Know several people who have bought a house since Christmas and have done deals with the builder


Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: FermGael on March 09, 2009, 09:33:01 PM
meanwhile you keep paying rent which is money down the drain



TyroneFan at the moment rent is not money down the drain. I reckon i have saved at least £30000 over the last 5 years by renting.
If i would have bought i would be in huge negative equity.
Patience is the key at the moment. 

I think Minder has the right idea


Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: tyronefan on March 09, 2009, 09:37:12 PM
would also have spend approx 30K on rent over the past 5 years
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Minder on March 09, 2009, 09:44:44 PM
meanwhile you keep paying rent which is money down the drain

Interest rates will at some stage go up again but will be some time down the road.

Now seems to be as good a time as any to buy a house as most builders are prepared to do a deal on a house at the minute if sit and talk to them.

Know several people who have bought a house since Christmas and have done deals with the builder




I am talking about people that are saving for a deposit, which has to be at least 10%, how can someone buy now if they dont have the deposit ? There will be plenty of opportunities for first time buyers in the next coupe of years if they have a bit of cash behind them.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: tyronefan on March 09, 2009, 09:57:47 PM
can see your point minder  the deposit is very hard to get together  but if you can get over that part with the price of houses now the mortgage payments are about the same as you would be paying in rent
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: bailestil on March 09, 2009, 10:05:57 PM
But after the last 5 years of 120% mortgages it seems people don't sem to grasp that saving 10% is a sensible thing!

i can't understand how house prices in somewhere like Derry can average over £170,000 when the average wage is probably £12,000
the multiples don't add up.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: clarshack on March 10, 2009, 09:21:03 AM
But after the last 5 years of 120% mortgages it seems people don't sem to grasp that saving 10% is a sensible thing!

i would agree that deposits are a sensible thing and definitely needed.

in 2003 when we bought our house we had to put down at least a 5% deposit and provide proof of job security etc in order to get a mortgage. plus we could only borrow something like 2.5 times our income as well. it wasnt long after when people were being offered 105% (and more) mortgages etc and borrowing a hell of a lot more than what their incomes were.

i am just glad that we bought when we did. i wouldnt like to be in a lot of other peoples shoes.

Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: bailestil on June 05, 2009, 12:02:41 AM
So whats the story these days?

Can't imagine things have improved any despite the best efforts of the newspapers and estate agents to tell us otherwise.

Estate agents are already giving the "don't miss the bottom" line.

its now almost like " there is no bubble" all over again!
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: bellaghy_lad on June 05, 2009, 08:22:25 AM
i dont think the market has bottomed out just yet. some places are moving but its an up and down situation at the min. your best bet would be go in with a low offer. if it doesnt work out sit tight and keep trying.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: orangeman on June 05, 2009, 09:06:14 AM
Prices inthe North are definitely starting to firm up - the south less so.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Minder on June 05, 2009, 09:28:20 AM
Its far too early to talk of a recovery, quite a lot of the data the last few months has been conflicting. You would need to wait for another six months at least to see a trend. While lenders are looking for 20, sometimes 40% deposits coupled with rising unemployment the market will remain slack for a while yet i will see. People seem to think prices just automatically begin to rise, they wont if banks wont give prospective buyers a mortgage.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: illdecide on June 05, 2009, 09:28:46 AM
Halifax confirmed yesterday that house prices in the UK rose by 2.5% for May...first rise in a long long time so i reckon buy now as it looks like they have bottomed out
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Donagh on June 05, 2009, 09:29:29 AM
Prices inthe North are definitely starting to firm up - the south less so.

Just seasonal. Give it until the end of the summer and they'll start dropping again.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: orangeman on June 05, 2009, 09:49:19 AM
Prices inthe North are definitely starting to firm up - the south less so.

Just seasonal. Give it until the end of the summer and they'll start dropping again.

I reckon they can't drop any further - £120k for a new semi detached house  - it can be built for much less.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: midLouth on June 05, 2009, 09:54:12 AM
You'll find when the price of things drop and I'm mainly talking about employment, then they'll be built for less. The needed to drop the minimum wage in Ireland is crucial for prices to come down.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: rootthemout on June 05, 2009, 10:10:57 AM
have noticed a few building sites in the north opening up again over the last week or two,think developers are at the bottom now with their prices.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: FermGael on June 05, 2009, 11:45:59 AM
As some one who is looking to buy for the past couple of years, Prices are still to high.

Some of the new build houses in the north are awful.  That's why they have fallen the most in value
Badly designed, badly finished, cramped and on top of each other.
Just put up in as short a time as possible to make a quick buck.
I have no idea how some of them passed building control.

I have given up on buying a house at least until next year at the earliest.
Yes house prices went up in the last month but the volumes of sales are so low.
Mortgages are extremely hard to get.
If you think that this is the bottom, then we have just experienced the quickest recession in history.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: illdecide on June 05, 2009, 11:53:50 AM
My sister sells mortgages and insurances etc, she told me last night that she sold 3 first time mortgages this week and she hadn't sold 3 in the last year...
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Donagh on June 05, 2009, 11:55:33 AM
As some one who is looking to buy for the past couple of years, Prices are still to high.

Some of the new build houses in the north are awful.  That's why they have fallen the most in value
Badly designed, badly finished, cramped and on top of each other.
Just put up in as short a time as possible to make a quick buck.
I have no idea how some of them passed building control.

I have given up on buying a house at least until next year at the earliest.
Yes house prices went up in the last month but the volumes of sales are so low.
Mortgages are extremely hard to get.
If you think that this is the bottom, then we have just experienced the quickest recession in history.

Spot on FermGael. Am in the same position and that would be my experience as well. A lot of new builds I've viewed have been atrociously designed and finished and the vendors are still expecting over the odds because some fool agreed a sale at a grossly inflated price a year ago before they or their bank wised-up. For all the people who got stung by buying at the top of the market I'd say there are more who were lucky their sales fell through.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Minder on June 05, 2009, 02:03:48 PM
My sister sells mortgages and insurances etc, she told me last night that she sold 3 first time mortgages this week and she hadn't sold 3 in the last year...

As Donagh said i would say its seasonal or coincidence. Lending conditions have not changed, there is still a need for 10,20, 40% deposit. Until that changes plenty of houses will remain unsold. If you have a decent deposit behind you all the better, five years ago any clown could have got a 100% mortgage due to some mortgage broker massaging the multiples. We probably wont see them for a good few years again if ever. Now if you have a deposit you can have your pick of properties. I dont think we are at the bottom yet. People say "ah they cant drop any lower" but if nobody is buying them because they cant get a mortgage of course they will go lower. Whatever you do dont listen to an estate agent............
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: midLouth on June 05, 2009, 02:09:59 PM
Whatever you do dont listen to an estate agent............

Words of wisdom, anyone connected to the market or making a profit out of the market isn't worth listening to at the moment, because they are up shit creak, and I'd have no sympathy given the free ride they had for the last 10 years or so.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Minder on June 05, 2009, 02:14:06 PM
Whatever you do dont listen to an estate agent............

Words of wisdom, anyone connected to the market or making a profit out of the market isn't worth listening to at the moment, because they are up shit creak, and I'd have no sympathy given the free ride they had for the last 10 years or so.

Sure in the Lisburn Rd in Belfast last week Templeton Robinson estate agents "stage managed" a queue outside their branch for new apartments (will people ever learn?) in the City centre and paid for a model to sit in a deck chair wrapped up in a blanket giving the impression she was there all night. You couldnt make it up.

http://www.irishnews.com/articles/540/5860/2009/5/29/618796_382908488617Estateage.html
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Donagh on June 05, 2009, 02:24:27 PM
Whatever you do dont listen to an estate agent............

We viewed a house a few weeks ago and although and were thinking of offering £65k under asking price as it needed a good bit of work to take it up to what we're looking. The estate agent was on the phone the next day looking to know what we thought and we said we'd take a few days to think about it. We'll there's an offer on already, they said at £25k more than we were thinking of offering. No problem I said that's a good offer the vendor should take it and told them what I was considering bidding at. The day after that they were on the phone again to say the first offer was withdrawn and did I want to consider placing my bid.

Nah, you're alright thanks.  ::)
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Rossie11 on June 05, 2009, 02:36:07 PM
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/david-mcwilliams/collapse-in-house-prices-will-be-good-for-economy-1736856.html

Article in indo few weeks ago.
According to McWilliams there is another 50-60% drop in prices before its over...
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: bailestil on June 05, 2009, 02:45:25 PM
That article makes a lot of sense. Puts a bit of economic logic into where house prices should be.

The idea of 14 times rental income would make for some interesting valuations here!

In derry city at least prices are coming down a good bit, but considering derry as the economic backwater that it is the prices are still way above what they should be.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Boolerhead Mel on June 05, 2009, 02:52:42 PM
Estate agents are still greedy f**kers and liars. I hope to sign for a house in the next few days. But in Jan I had a bid for a house accepted. 2 days later a higher offer was made so I said thanks but no thanks. 2 weeks later I had a call from the estate agent looking to know if I was still interested I was not-so they must have went back to the bidder I beat-he to declined. The house is now on the market for 15000 less than I offered. I also had a bid of £145000 turned down on another property which is now on for £135000. One word of advice do not listen to one word these lying f**ks say. Just look at property news-very few houses are shifting still anywhere.     
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: FermGael on June 05, 2009, 03:08:12 PM
Estate agents are still greedy f**kers and liars. I hope to sign for a house in the next few days. But in Jan I had a bid for a house accepted. 2 days later a higher offer was made so I said thanks but no thanks. 2 weeks later I had a call from the estate agent looking to know if I was still interested I was not-so they must have went back to the bidder I beat-he to declined. The house is now on the market for 15000 less than I offered. I also had a bid of £145000 turned down on another property which is now on for £135000. One word of advice do not listen to one word these lying f**ks say. Just look at property news-very few houses are shifting still anywhere.     
i would say you were bidding against yourself.personally i think that there is no need for estate agents.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: midLouth on June 05, 2009, 03:11:15 PM
I was always told that a mortgage should be 2.5 to 3 times your annual salary, anything more you won't be able to afford.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: theskull1 on June 05, 2009, 03:14:08 PM
In Dunloy there's 6-8 terrace houses in a new development sitting idle. At the top of the market before they were finished the asking price was 220K for what is probably a 900-1000 sq ft poorly designed poorly built dwelling with 2 what you would call bedrooms and a walk in wardrobe (classed as third bedroom). They are currently being advertised at 109K and no takers as far as I can see.

It is of course the land prices paid that are keeping prices high. I'm sure a developer can knock up a peice of shit house for less than 40K
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Boolerhead Mel on June 05, 2009, 03:15:45 PM
Fermgeal

I have a feeling you are correct -but is there anyway of proving an estate agent is using sharp practise-I did feel like calling them a liar on the phone but bit my tongue!
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: milltown row on June 05, 2009, 03:19:11 PM
Estate agents are still greedy f**kers and liars. I hope to sign for a house in the next few days. But in Jan I had a bid for a house accepted. 2 days later a higher offer was made so I said thanks but no thanks. 2 weeks later I had a call from the estate agent looking to know if I was still interested I was not-so they must have went back to the bidder I beat-he to declined. The house is now on the market for 15000 less than I offered. I also had a bid of £145000 turned down on another property which is now on for £135000. One word of advice do not listen to one word these lying f**ks say. Just look at property news-very few houses are shifting still anywhere.     

i may be going over the top here and might lose my older brother but........              Estate agents should be shot, a shower of lying Bas#ards and unless more people challege them then they will rip you off. they do fook all   
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: bcarrier on June 05, 2009, 05:01:30 PM
Becoming a cash buyer or at the very least chain free puts you in a very strong position.

Even if you intend to live in the property always do the rental check - Magic Kingdoms 20 year rule is equivalent to a 5% yield - Mcwilliams article ( 14 times rental ) is over a 7% yield . Personally I think anything above a 6% yield is OK ie  At 650 rent a month a house should be valued closer to 130k than 156K ....but you can still be a bit flexible if it is going to be your home.

I would always make an offer ito an agent in writing as well as verbally if you want to be totally sure it is put to the vendor.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: delboy on June 05, 2009, 05:38:19 PM
I was always told that a mortgage should be 2.5 to 3 times your annual salary, anything more you won't be able to afford.

I would have said that was the thinking a few years ago, but to bring that upto date you'd have to include a second income, most families nowadays have both the father and mother working to support the household.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: heganboy on June 05, 2009, 05:44:48 PM
most families nowadays have both the father and mother working to support the household.

actually in the US the trend is now away from that, more families are moving to a one income household, price of child care and the current economy are contributing factors
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: delboy on June 05, 2009, 05:51:34 PM
most families nowadays have both the father and mother working to support the household.

actually in the US the trend is now away from that, more families are moving to a one income household, price of child care and the current economy are contributing factors

Well the story goes that what happens in the US will also come to pass here, its certainly not the case at the moment but I think it would be a great thing if we could get back to the days of a family being able to live on a single income instead of both mother and father working all hours just to keep a roof over their head.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: tyronefan on June 05, 2009, 06:09:44 PM
You should go directly to the builder or seller and deal with them face to face

At least that way you know exactly whats happening and cut out the estate agent in the negotiation stages, I bet you there is not a builder in Ireland who would turn you away and at least you know how you stand with your offer.


Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Quagmire on June 05, 2009, 09:07:20 PM
Fermgeal

I have a feeling you are correct -but is there anyway of proving an estate agent is using sharp practise-I did feel like calling them a liar on the phone but bit my tongue!

As far as I'm aware you can ask to see the bidding history on a property you've been bidding on, the agents are legally required to keep a record of bids in order to prevent this type of abuse. I don't know what this should look like in terms of a book or stored on a computer but the doll I spoke to in the bank about getting a mortgage wired me off on it as the agents she was dealing with togged it when she pulled them on a property she was bidding on. She then pulled out of the deal as she felt they were trying to take her on.

Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Jimmy on July 06, 2009, 11:00:38 PM
from www.bbc.co.uk

Property prices will nose-dive in NI if the Irish Republic's new toxic assets agency dumps developments on the market, Stormont ministers have warned.

Finance ministers from both sides of the border are to hold emergency talks over fears the north could be swamped with repossessed homes and offices.

The issue was raised at a North-South Ministerial Council meeting in Dublin.

An agency has been set up in Dublin to recoup debt run up by banks on property bought in NI and in the Republic.

The National Assets Management Agency (NAMA) will attempt to recover nationalised bank losses for the Irish government through the selling-off of developments that collapsed during the property crash.

Taoiseach Brian Cowen said there were concerns about the number of Northern Ireland properties which will be taken over by NAMA.

'Implications'

"Obviously some of these assets are located in the Republic, in Northern Ireland and other jurisdictions as well," Mr Cowen said.

"It's important that we fully agreed in our discussions that both finance ministers would meet to consider the implications over the period ahead.

"It's obviously a matter of co-ordinating policy decisions."

Northern Ireland First Minister Peter Robinson said Finance Minster Sammy Wilson would meet with his counterpart in the Republic, Brian Lenihan, in an attempt to stave off any threat to Northern Ireland's house prices.

"There are assets which are being held by NAMA which impact upon Northern Ireland, those disposals need to be handled in a way that don't swamp the property market and impact adversely on property prices in Northern Ireland," he said.

It is estimated that Irish banks hold anything between 60bn and 90bn euros of so-called toxic assets, the money loaned to property developers and others which might never be repaid.

Around 30bn euros worth are thought to be outside the Republic and as many as 15bn to 20bn euros worth of bad property-related debts are thought to be in Northern Ireland.



What do you make of this? Am looking to buy but trying to time it right so prices are as low or as close to low as possible. But if this is true then surely there is still a bit to go.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: midLouth on July 06, 2009, 11:18:34 PM
Until NAMA kick into action then there'll be a bit to go yet, which is why all these ones claiming housing markets have bottomed out make such a good laugh. There are thousands of houses around the country that have never been lived in lying idle around the country that have never been put on the market because developers won't release them onto the market. It'll be interesting to see what happens when the properties reach the markets.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Canalman on July 07, 2009, 12:02:19 AM
Wouldn't go near buying a house at the moment. Dublin house prices are plummeting and no "bottoming out" on the horizon. Estate Agents as usual spouting off about " a great time to buy"...... tosh. The repos have yet to really hit the market also.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Goats Do Shave on July 07, 2009, 07:54:05 AM
Went to bid on a house yesterday, only to find that the current bid of £10,000 over the asking price!  :o
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: FermGael on July 07, 2009, 09:16:27 AM
Went to bid on a house yesterday, only to find that the current bid of £10,000 over the asking price!  :o

Do not be surprised if you get a phone call in the next week or two saying that the current bid has been withdrawn and would you like to make a new bid.  Seems to be the new tactic being adopted by estate agents.  A friend of mine was in a similar situation and offered 10% less of what he originally offered.  He got the house.  It's a buyers market.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Goats Do Shave on July 07, 2009, 09:36:01 AM
I doubt it - but i'll let ye know!
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: the derg on July 07, 2009, 03:42:18 PM
sticking up for us estate agents i can tell you any agent who tries the "higher bid" when there isnt is a silly p***k because for all he gets extra it is really not worth it also if you go down this route not only have you to be a superb liar but at the minute your client does not want any messing about depending on the redemption figure and their circumstances any fair and reasonable offer will be considered . in the glory days agents got the blame for gazzumping but we are obliged to make our clients aware of offers and it is up to them to decide whether to go for it i personally have never went back on a deal but plenty of buyers have bid houses up to pull out at a later date leaving the agent to clear up the mess and relay the bad news
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: lob her in lad on July 07, 2009, 03:52:49 PM
meself and the missus just got an offer for a house accepted we went in about £25 k under the asking after it had already been dropped by £10 k. The vendor originally refused it and said they wouldn't budge but we just sat back for a week and had no contact with the agent and lo and behold a week later on Monday gone they accepted. Ah you have got to love the recession if not estate agents. I just want to know what sort of herculian people work for these estate agents when a 'stones throw' is equal to a good fifteen minute walk. They must all be puc fada champions.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: orangeman on July 07, 2009, 07:28:06 PM
What is the average pice of a semi detatched in Northern Ireland at the minute ??

What about the South ?? What's a semi d there now ?
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Armaghtothebone on July 07, 2009, 10:25:12 PM
In Dunloy there's 6-8 terrace houses in a new development sitting idle. At the top of the market before they were finished the asking price was 220K for what is probably a 900-1000 sq ft poorly designed poorly built dwelling with 2 what you would call bedrooms and a walk in wardrobe (classed as third bedroom). They are currently being advertised at 109K and no takers as far as I can see.

It is of course the land prices paid that are keeping prices high. I'm sure a developer can knock up a peice of shit house for less than 40K


I'd edit this to say North Antrim sharpish.I'm willing to bet that the village you mention does not have a plethora of developments that fit that criteria.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Our Nail Loney on July 08, 2009, 08:49:29 PM
Gonna start saving myself for a house. The deposit will be a killer.

Think if I get about 8,000 saved then I can always find a good even money shot double her up to 16,000

I am joking of course
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: theskull1 on July 08, 2009, 09:03:05 PM
In Dunloy there's 6-8 terrace houses in a new development sitting idle. At the top of the market before they were finished the asking price was 220K for what is probably a 900-1000 sq ft poorly designed poorly built dwelling with 2 what you would call bedrooms and a walk in wardrobe (classed as third bedroom). They are currently being advertised at 109K and no takers as far as I can see.

It is of course the land prices paid that are keeping prices high. I'm sure a developer can knock up a peice of shit house for less than 40K


I'd edit this to say North Antrim sharpish.I'm willing to bet that the village you mention does not have a plethora of developments that fit that criteria.

??? Why?
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: orangeman on July 28, 2009, 02:47:26 PM
City shopping centre up for sale 
 
Patrick (l) and Hugh Hegarty own the business W G Mitchell
The Richmond Shopping Centre, seven city centre buildings and 22 acres of land on the outskirts of Londonderry have been put up for sale.

The property was put up for sale by administrators Enrst and Young who earlier this year were appointed to W G Mitchell and associated companies.

Twenty eight businesses owned by brothers Patrick and Hugh Hegarty went into administration in April.

A guide price of £26m has been put on the Richmond Centre.

The companies in administration also own property in Charlotte Square and George Street in Edinburgh and developments in Glasgow, Perth and Fraserburgh in Aberdeenshire.

The Hegarty family began investing in property in Northern Ireland in the 1960s.

Their W G Mitchell company moved into the Scottish market in the late 1990s developing a focus on hotels.

At the end of 2008 the company was attempting to raise money through the sale of two of its hotels.

The Bonnington in London was put on the market less than a year after W G Mitchell bought it from Irish hotelier Jim McGettigan for about £70m. Its Radisson hotel in Edinburgh was also up for sale.

Last year's Sunday Times rich list estimated that Patrick Hegarty and his family had a fortune of £40m.


 
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Lazer on July 28, 2009, 04:55:02 PM
I went to view a flat today and it has damp along the front walls (Its a top floor flat)- anyone know if this would be expensive to fix? - obviously I will get someone to look at it if i decide I want to put in an offer but would like an idea of this first?

Also how much below the asking price is reasonable for an offer?
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: orangeman on July 28, 2009, 05:32:50 PM
I went to view a flat today and it has damp along the front walls (Its a top floor flat)- anyone know if this would be expensive to fix? - obviously I will get someone to look at it if i decide I want to put in an offer but would like an idea of this first?

Also how much below the asking price is reasonable for an offer?


How much they asking ?
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Lazer on July 29, 2009, 09:37:47 AM
I went to view a flat today and it has damp along the front walls (Its a top floor flat)- anyone know if this would be expensive to fix? - obviously I will get someone to look at it if i decide I want to put in an offer but would like an idea of this first?

Also how much below the asking price is reasonable for an offer?


How much they asking ?

About £95k
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Final Whistle on July 29, 2009, 09:45:57 AM
There are various methods of solving this problem but as a top srory flat they are not practicle!! As its a top story flat with damp there are problems and problems=poor workmanship!

stay well clear!
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: SidelineKick on July 29, 2009, 09:54:31 AM
Chance your arm at 85k.  Let the offer sit as if you really aren't bothered.  Any other offers on it?
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: StGallsGAA on July 29, 2009, 09:56:00 AM
Quote
I went to view a flat today and it has damp along the front walls (Its a top floor flat)- anyone know if this would be expensive to fix? - obviously I will get someone to look at it if i decide I want to put in an offer but would like an idea of this first?

As its a top story flat with damp there are problems and problems=poor workmanship!

I can assure you that it is not damp in a top story flat and nothing to do with workmanship either.

This is very common in apartments and comes from drying the clothes inside without a window open.  The condensation settles on the external walls causing black mould, not damp.  It will more than likely wash of or at very most repainting.  

Don't let that prevent you claiming is IS damp and haggling the price down further tho! ;)
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Final Whistle on July 29, 2009, 10:11:40 AM
If he has a flat with damp on the top story, its not rising damp but more than likely penetrative damp. A surveyor will be able to diagnose the problem in seconds.

Im sure he would be able to tell if there is condensation or not.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: orangeman on July 29, 2009, 10:25:40 AM
Does the complex have a flat roof ?
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: orangeman on September 10, 2009, 10:02:54 AM
I'm reading on the BBC that house prices are rising - up 0.8% this month after 2 consecutive smallish rises.



Is anyone else seing any evidence of house prices at least stabilising or even rising ?

Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Goats Do Shave on September 10, 2009, 10:05:17 AM
I'm reading on the BBC that house prices are rising - up 0.8% this month after 2 consecutive smallish rises.



Is anyone else seing any evidence of house prices at least stabilising or even rising ?

I've been keeping an eye on things...

What I have noticed is houses that are resonably priced seem to be moving. Although there is more talk of 'toxic debt' in the south about to be chased by selling off property in the north... could flood the market; at best stalling prices!
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Donagh on September 10, 2009, 10:20:02 AM
The summer months are always best for selling. Seasonal blip.

Prices may stop falling soon providing the market isn't flooded but I wouldn't think anyone can know for certain this side of Christmas. After that I say they won't rise again for four or five years. 
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: nifan on September 10, 2009, 10:35:33 AM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/business-news/mixed-messages-in-ulsterrsquos-housing-market-14483348.html (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/business-news/mixed-messages-in-ulsterrsquos-housing-market-14483348.html)
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: orangeman on September 10, 2009, 10:36:14 AM
I'm noticing that houses with a sensible asking price are definitely moving and speaking to some people, confidence seems to be returning.

The flooding of the market could be a real problem alright.

I do think that prices generally will rise within the 4/5 year period although maybe only 1 or 2% a year.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: FermGael on September 10, 2009, 12:22:05 PM
Patience is the key at this stage.

I have noticed that houses put up for sale in the last month have a more reasonable asking price.
People are finally beginning to realize that the the 07 prices are now part of history.

Those stat's from Halifax are only for the whole of the UK.
Try to get the regional report for Northen Ireland.
The last time they came out, it was up 1.6% in the UK, yet down 5% in N.Ireland :o
We had the biggest bubble, we will have the biggest crash.

With rising unemployment, Nama and coupled with future interest rate rises(they will not stay at this level for ever),
house prices will decrease for the next 2-3 years IMO.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Rois on September 10, 2009, 12:29:06 PM
Yay, interest rate held at 0.5% by the Bank of England.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: FermGael on September 10, 2009, 12:30:15 PM
Yay, interest rate held at 0.5% by the Bank of England.

They can only do this for so long.  About another 6-12 months iMO.

get yourself onto a good fixed rate soon Rois
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Rois on September 10, 2009, 12:41:50 PM
I would think about it if I could, but am a typical example of an idiot, bought at the peak with no deposit.  Need to pay off a good bit more capital before I get anything decent.  Loan to value will be ridiculous.

Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: orangeman on October 02, 2009, 10:27:54 AM
House prices 'start to recover' 
 
Prices are still far below their peak in 2007
House prices in Northern Ireland have risen for the first time in two years according to the latest Nationwide building society figures.

It said prices were up by 9.7% over the last three months, however they are still down 8% on this time last year and down 35% from their peak in 2007.

The study puts the average house price in NI at £147,204.

Nationwide said the softening in the year-on-year rate of price decline may indicate improving affordability.

"The ratio of house prices to earnings is now broadly in line with that for the UK as a whole, having been well above the UK average for most of the last two years," said the Nationwide's chief economist Martin Gahbauer.

Mr Gahbauer suggested that any recovery is not being spread equally across Northern Ireland.

Unemployment

"The Northern Ireland (West) sub-region saw the largest annual fall in house price this quarter and has also been the worst performing area over the last two years," he said.

  The more fundamental reason why prices might start falling again is that, by most measures, they are still significantly over-valued

Stephanie Flanders, BBC economics editor


Read Stephanie's blog in full 
"Elevated levels of unemployment in parts of the area are likely to have had a negative impact on prices."

The Nationwide figures are produced from Nationwide mortgage data. The data is extracted monthly for mortgages that are at the approvals stage.

This is the second report in recent months to suggest that the Northern Ireland housing market is showing tentative signs of recovery.

A University of Ulster/ Bank of Ireland survey in August showed that house sales were increasing with prices moving up slightly.
 
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: StGallsGAA on October 02, 2009, 10:54:13 AM
The recovery across the water has started alright however up until the crash they had normal growth in a bouyant market of approx 10% per year.

The big problem here was the market was overheated with between 25%-40% growth for several years running.   The last 16 months of the boom from Jan 2006 & up to spring 2007 saw 50% growth in some areas meaning properties were ridiculously overpriced due to investors. 

Provided sellers realise that realistically values are now at 50% or below of early 2007 prices then things will start to move a little.  Problem is too many sellers don't want to face up to that fact.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: bailestil on October 02, 2009, 11:08:47 AM
Don't get the whole rising house prices = good for the economy.

Since when does rising cost of living become good for an economy?

Increased house prices only gives the illusion of wealth.
As has been said about the south. We thought we could get rich selling each other houses.

seems like that mentality is still the same here in the north.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Main Street on October 02, 2009, 11:16:57 AM
It is the illusion of a recovery, the bubble being refilled with air.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: tyronefan on October 02, 2009, 11:19:20 AM
its not about the prices rising, its more about them not falling any lower and the prices stabilizing. They should rise with inflation at a moderate rate per year.

The reason this is a good thing is people will start buying again, developers will start building again and  employing trades men again, who will start to spend the money they are earning again.

The most of the unemployed people have come from the construction trade.

The money starts circulating and the economy starts to function again.

Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: orangeman on October 02, 2009, 11:23:10 AM
I just read the Property section of the Independent there and prices in the south are still very high. Apartments are still around Ä 200k. Houses are Ä 250k upwards - that's a lot of money and if you have a 100% mortgage, it's a lot of paying back.


The price pf a house should be based on the land cost and the costs involved in planning, developing and building copuled with the amount that households can afford to repay in mortgage costs. For some time now, these factors have been ignored - it was just a question of how much you could get for it as far the developers were concerned.

The sooner it returns to this the better.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: under the bar on October 02, 2009, 11:23:38 AM
Quote
The reason this is a good thing is people will start buying again, developers will start building again and  employing trades men again, who will start to spend the money they are earning again.

However until banks start lending to the first time buyers without asking for ridiculous deposits of 20% and more none of the above can start happening.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Main Street on October 02, 2009, 11:32:48 AM
20% is not a ridiculous deposit.
What is ridiculous is what the 20% equates to in money terms in relation to salary.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: bailestil on October 02, 2009, 11:37:00 AM
its not about the prices rising, its more about them not falling any lower and the prices stabilizing. They should rise with inflation at a moderate rate per year.

The reason this is a good thing is people will start buying again, developers will start building again and  employing trades men again, who will start to spend the money they are earning again.

The most of the unemployed people have come from the construction trade.

The money starts circulating and the economy starts to function again.

So the average house price in NI is £150,000 or so.

So an average family with 1 person working would need to be earning £45,000 or so per annum to buy an "average" house. Thats using the age old 3.5 times your salary as a calculation.

I would be amazed if the average wage in NI was over £22k or so.

In Derry the average house wage is whatever the DLA pays, yet the a average house would still cost £150,000 or thereabouts.

i'd say mainstreet is correct, this thing is getting inflated again, no thanks to belfast telegraph and co (who happen to open propertynews.com and earn plenty from all those property supplements)
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: tyronefan on October 02, 2009, 11:41:15 AM
The banks are still reluctant to lend and are requiring large deposits because they are not sure if the bottom of the market has been reached here yet and they are covering themselves in case of any further falls.

Mortgage lending has gone up 83% in the UK because it is believed that the bottom of the market has been reached there

Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Cķig huaire on October 02, 2009, 11:43:44 AM
The bottom of the market has probably been reached in the UK, with NI now also showing signs of growth. The market in the south still has some way to go and is unlikely to start to recover until 2011.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: bailestil on October 02, 2009, 11:50:52 AM
The bottom of the market has probably been reached in the UK, with NI now also showing signs of growth. The market in the south still has some way to go and is unlikely to start to recover until 2011.

I can understand a recovery in England.
However why in NI?

Could anyone explain to me how anyone can justify the price of a house in N.Ireland versus the wages in N.Ireland. It doesn't add up.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Cķig huaire on October 02, 2009, 11:52:03 AM
Have house prices in NI not returned to a more "normal" level?
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: tyronefan on October 02, 2009, 11:52:43 AM
The average price in Tyrone is not 150k,
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Fear ůn Srath BŠn on October 02, 2009, 11:56:43 AM
The bottom of the market has probably been reached in the UK, with NI now also showing signs of growth.

Double-dip recession!  :o

Explanation (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/e6dd31f0-a133-11de-a88d-00144feabdc0.html)
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: armaghniac on October 02, 2009, 12:01:17 PM
Some houses in the South have declined quite a bit, but are not yet at Tyrone prices!

....

A SANDYMOUNT house that had to be sold to repay the debts of its property investor owners fetched over Ä1.9 million yesterday after it was withdrawn from auction.

John Mara, and his partner Clare Murphy, have outstanding property debts with Irish Nationwide amounting to over Ä5.7 million. They were forced to sell the house, Chiang Mai, at Claremont Road, which they had bought and renovated as an investment in 2006.

The couple paid more than Ä2 million for the Victorian house, and spent an estimated Ä1 million in renovations. At the same time, they invested in a Ä2 million property in Croatia, which they have also pledged to sell, along with furniture worth Ä60,000 in a bid to reduce their debts.

John Mara, the son of former Fianna FŠil press officer PJ Mara, intended to sell Chiang Mai in 2007. When he put it on the market for Ä5.5 million, property prices plunged and, despite subsequent price cuts, no buyer could be found.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: bailestil on October 02, 2009, 12:11:09 PM
Have house prices in NI not returned to a more "normal" level?

whats Normal? the same prices as 2 years ago?

read this from David McWilliams.
http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2009/05/13/collapse-in-house-prices-will-be-good-for-economy

He says the value of a house can be calculated as its 14 times its annual rental return.
I could rent a 3 bed semi in Derry for £450pm. that values the house at £75,000.
the same house could be bought for £160,000

is this "normal" ?
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Main Street on October 02, 2009, 12:13:57 PM
In a real world of values,  a house should be worth about 10 times its annual rental value.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Cķig huaire on October 02, 2009, 12:16:07 PM
He says the value of a house can be calculated as its 14 times its annual rental return.
I could rent a 3 bed semi in Derry for £450pm. that values the house at £75,000.
the same house could be bought for £160,000

is this "normal" ?

Normal in my eyes is pre-boom prices. The housing market will eventually return to normality. The average joe needs to see a house as a home and not an investment.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: bailestil on October 02, 2009, 12:22:14 PM
so we still have another 50% drop to go then.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: blewuporstuffed on October 02, 2009, 12:48:50 PM
20% is not a ridiculous deposit.
What is ridiculous is what the 20% equates to in money terms in relation to salary.
thats a fair point 20% of 70-80k may not be ridiculous (although alot of money),
but 20%of 150-200k certainly is
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Bensars on October 02, 2009, 01:30:39 PM
The banks are still reluctant to lend and are requiring large deposits because they are not sure if the bottom of the market has been reached here yet and they are covering themselves in case of any further falls.

Mortgage lending has gone up 83% in the UK because it is believed that the bottom of the market has been reached there




Up 83% on what ?   The previous three months ? this time last year ?
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: thebigfella on October 02, 2009, 01:42:00 PM
Quote
The reason this is a good thing is people will start buying again, developers will start building again and  employing trades men again, who will start to spend the money they are earning again.

However until banks start lending to the first time buyers without asking for ridiculous deposits of 20% and more none of the above can start happening.

Nothing ridiculous about it, there was no complaints in the 90's when this was the case. Might do away of this free money culture that seem to have developed during the so called good years where people borrowed flat out without worrying about how to pay back. It amazing how much more responsible people are when it's their own money they stand to lose as well  ;)
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: orangeman on October 02, 2009, 02:03:09 PM
Hold on lads - a house is worth what it costs to build plus what it cost in land value plus the cost of what is required to complete the planning, design and sale processes plus a profit/ overheads % for the builder / developer


So a 1050 sq ft house ( minimum ) would be as follows :


1050 x say £60sq ft =                             £63k
planning, building control,
 bank charges, financing costs,
design costs, estate agents costs etc say   £ 5k

Land cost - say £250k/ acre /8 per acre = £ 31k

Add developers profit 15% on above - say £ 15k


total :                  £  114k for the average semi detached house.


Obviously detached houses are going to be bigger and site costs are going to be more. Better locations, better finishes etc will mean a higher price.



So 10 times or 14 times the annual rent doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: under the bar on October 02, 2009, 02:07:39 PM
Quote
However until banks start lending to the first time buyers without asking for ridiculous deposits of 20% and more none of the above can start happening.

Nothing ridiculous about it, there was no complaints in the 90's when this was the case. Might do away of this free money culture that seem to have developed during the so called good years where people borrowed flat out without worrying about how to pay back. It amazing how much more responsible people are when it's their own money they stand to lose as well   

Offering mortgages to first time buyers only if they can come up with a 25% deposit is just another way of saying we don't wish to lend to them.  The vast majority of first time buyers can't afford a 25% deposit.

Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Stall the Bailer on October 02, 2009, 02:16:13 PM
Hold on lads - a house is worth what it costs to build plus what it cost in land value plus the cost of what is required to complete the planning, design and sale processes plus a profit/ overheads % for the builder / developer


So a 1050 sq ft house ( minimum ) would be as follows :


1050 x say £60sq ft =                             £63k
planning, building control,
 bank charges, financing costs,
design costs, estate agents costs etc say   £ 5k

Land cost - say £250k/ acre /8 per acre = £ 31k

Add developers profit 15% on above - say £ 15k


total :                  £  114k for the average semi detached house.


Obviously detached houses are going to be bigger and site costs are going to be more. Better locations, better finishes etc will mean a higher price.



So 10 times or 14 times the annual rent doesn't make sense.
Why 31K for a site? I live in Tyrone (like you) and less that 10 years ago you would have got sites at 10k or less. Why over a 200% increase in ten years?
31k per site is over priced, 15k would be more like it.
Also why a 15k add on for the developer profit? They are paid for a job, like the other cost you included. They should not get a profit for each house they build but the standard wage for the job they do. i.e covered in the £60 per sq. ft. Even this £60 probably should be reduced as most people in the construction industry were getting more than they were skill for. Iíd say 80k would closer for the above.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: orangeman on October 02, 2009, 02:33:45 PM
Hold on lads - a house is worth what it costs to build plus what it cost in land value plus the cost of what is required to complete the planning, design and sale processes plus a profit/ overheads % for the builder / developer


So a 1050 sq ft house ( minimum ) would be as follows :


1050 x say £60sq ft =                             £63k
planning, building control,
 bank charges, financing costs,
design costs, estate agents costs etc say   £ 5k

Land cost - say £250k/ acre /8 per acre = £ 31k

Add developers profit 15% on above - say £ 15k


total :                  £  114k for the average semi detached house.


Obviously detached houses are going to be bigger and site costs are going to be more. Better locations, better finishes etc will mean a higher price.



So 10 times or 14 times the annual rent doesn't make sense.
Why 31K for a site? I live in Tyrone (like you) and less that 10 years ago you would have got sites at 10k or less. Why over a 200% increase in ten years?31k per site is over priced, 15k would be more like it.
Also why a 15k add on for the developer profit? They are paid for a job, like the other cost you included. They should not get a profit for each house they build but the standard wage for the job they do. i.e covered in the £60 per sq. ft. Even this £60 probably should be reduced as most people in the construction industry were getting more than they were skill for. Iíd say 80k would closer for the above.


There aren't any sites available at 10k per site - 5/6 years ago they were 20 - 25k so I don't think 31k is unreasonable - this is the figure that the banks have factored in for site costs BTW.

Developers need a profit / overheads % added on to the bottom line - if there wasn't a profit, then nobody would be prepared to take the risk and build houses.

If you look at the only evidence that is avaialable, ie. house sales, there are plenty of houses being sold for £120k +. There aren't too many houses for sale at less than than figure and there are certainly no houses for sale at £80k. Anybody selling houses for less than £100k are probably selling them to meet bank demands to get cash in.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: bailestil on October 02, 2009, 02:40:09 PM
Hold on lads - a house is worth what it costs to build plus what it cost in land value plus the cost of what is required to complete the planning, design and sale processes plus a profit/ overheads % for the builder / developer


So a 1050 sq ft house ( minimum ) would be as follows :


1050 x say £60sq ft =                             £63k
planning, building control,
 bank charges, financing costs,
design costs, estate agents costs etc say   £ 5k

Land cost - say £250k/ acre /8 per acre = £ 31k

Add developers profit 15% on above - say £ 15k


total :                  £  114k for the average semi detached house.


Obviously detached houses are going to be bigger and site costs are going to be more. Better locations, better finishes etc will mean a higher price.



So 10 times or 14 times the annual rent doesn't make sense.
Why 31K for a site? I live in Tyrone (like you) and less that 10 years ago you would have got sites at 10k or less. Why over a 200% increase in ten years?31k per site is over priced, 15k would be more like it.
Also why a 15k add on for the developer profit? They are paid for a job, like the other cost you included. They should not get a profit for each house they build but the standard wage for the job they do. i.e covered in the £60 per sq. ft. Even this £60 probably should be reduced as most people in the construction industry were getting more than they were skill for. Iíd say 80k would closer for the above.


There aren't any sites available at 10k per site - 5/6 years ago they were 20 - 25k so I don't think 31k is unreasonable - this is the figure that the banks have factored in for site costs BTW.

Developers need a profit / overheads % added on to the bottom line - if there wasn't a profit, then nobody would be prepared to take the risk and build houses.

If you look at the only evidence that is avaialable, ie. house sales, there are plenty of houses being sold for £120k +. There aren't too many houses for sale at less than than figure and there are certainly no houses for sale at £80k. Anybody selling houses for less than £100k are probably selling them to meet bank demands to get cash in.

If you bought a house for £120k now,  what sort of yield would you get? i would suggest very little considering rent prices these days.
Surely therefore the asset is over valued.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: orangeman on October 02, 2009, 02:43:58 PM
Hold on lads - a house is worth what it costs to build plus what it cost in land value plus the cost of what is required to complete the planning, design and sale processes plus a profit/ overheads % for the builder / developer


So a 1050 sq ft house ( minimum ) would be as follows :


1050 x say £60sq ft =                             £63k
planning, building control,
 bank charges, financing costs,
design costs, estate agents costs etc say   £ 5k

Land cost - say £250k/ acre /8 per acre = £ 31k

Add developers profit 15% on above - say £ 15k


total :                  £  114k for the average semi detached house.


Obviously detached houses are going to be bigger and site costs are going to be more. Better locations, better finishes etc will mean a higher price.



So 10 times or 14 times the annual rent doesn't make sense.
Why 31K for a site? I live in Tyrone (like you) and less that 10 years ago you would have got sites at 10k or less. Why over a 200% increase in ten years?31k per site is over priced, 15k would be more like it.
Also why a 15k add on for the developer profit? They are paid for a job, like the other cost you included. They should not get a profit for each house they build but the standard wage for the job they do. i.e covered in the £60 per sq. ft. Even this £60 probably should be reduced as most people in the construction industry were getting more than they were skill for. Iíd say 80k would closer for the above.


There aren't any sites available at 10k per site - 5/6 years ago they were 20 - 25k so I don't think 31k is unreasonable - this is the figure that the banks have factored in for site costs BTW.

Developers need a profit / overheads % added on to the bottom line - if there wasn't a profit, then nobody would be prepared to take the risk and build houses.

If you look at the only evidence that is avaialable, ie. house sales, there are plenty of houses being sold for £120k +. There aren't too many houses for sale at less than than figure and there are certainly no houses for sale at £80k. Anybody selling houses for less than £100k are probably selling them to meet bank demands to get cash in.

If you bought a house for £120k now,  what sort of yield would you get? i would suggest very little considering rent prices these days.
Surely therefore the asset is over valued.


Yield would be nil - in fact negative.

It's back to what it costs - 3/4 years ago before the boom, semi d's were £100k. They can't have come down from that figure.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: tyronefan on October 02, 2009, 02:47:00 PM
how are you working out the yield OM
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Stall the Bailer on October 02, 2009, 02:52:14 PM
5/6 years ago at 20-25k they were over priced, like they still are today. People were paying more than £120k this time last year and are still paying more than it costs to build them.
Take for example the houses built beside Healy Park in Omagh. They were built in 2003 and you could get one for under £70k. That developer took risk as you say. He must have got the site for less than 20 Ė 25K and wasnít expecting a 15% profit on each house.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: orangeman on October 02, 2009, 02:52:21 PM
how are you working out the yield OM

Haven't actually worked it out - just speculating that it would be negative.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: orangeman on October 02, 2009, 02:55:52 PM
5/6 years ago at 20-25k they were over priced, like they still are today. People were paying more than £120k this time last year and are still paying more than it costs to build them.
Take for example the houses built beside Healy Park in Omagh. They were built in 2003 and you could get one for under £70k. That developer took risk as you say. He must have got the site for less than 20 Ė 25K and wasnít expecting a 15% profit on each house.

Fair enough - but if the property bubble had not happened, how much would that house have gained in value using single figure appreciation per year ? More than £80k ?
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Stall the Bailer on October 02, 2009, 03:01:47 PM
It would be 80 - 85 I guess (on 2.5 average increase)
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: orangeman on October 02, 2009, 03:10:19 PM
It would be 80 - 85 I guess (on 2.5 average increase)

Historically, due to the troubles or whatever else, house values in N. Ireland were a lot lower than comparable areas of the UK.

Are the higher prices in N. Ireland simply not reflecting a balancing exercise ?

Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Stall the Bailer on October 02, 2009, 03:15:38 PM
Is the average wage not also lower?
Our housing should then also be slightly lower.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: orangeman on October 02, 2009, 03:20:16 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8286028.stm



In certain areas of UK, eg the North of England and Scotland, wages would have been similar but house prices in those parts were always more expensive than here. The differential to my mind was always too great.

Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: orangeman on October 06, 2009, 09:29:16 AM
This isn't making a lot of sense - how are prices going up when most other things are coming down ?


More signs of house price rises 
 
The housing market has recovered during the year
UK house prices rose for the third consecutive month in September and showed the first quarterly increase for two years, according to the Halifax.

The average home rose in value by 1.6% in September compared with the previous month, to £163,533.

And prices in the three months to September increased by 2.8% compared with the previous quarter.

The Halifax, now part of Lloyds Banking Group, said that increased demand and a lack of supply were key to the rise.
 
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: theskull1 on October 06, 2009, 09:55:53 AM
Can't help but think that those type of reports are simply attempts by marketing to kick start a property recovery.


All tell my compass that prices will still come down a fair bit yet.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: orangeman on October 06, 2009, 10:05:24 AM
Can't help but think that those type of reports are simply attempts by marketing to kick start a property recovery.
  • Salary x 3.5 factor
    Job security issues
    20% deposits required
    The FSA trying to get banks to hold more cash reserves will mean borrowing costs will increase

All tell my compass that prices will still come down a fair bit yet.


Sounds like it alright.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Goats Do Shave on October 06, 2009, 10:10:14 AM
I thought it was 10% deposits required?

It is with Ulster Bank anyway!
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Smokin Joe on October 06, 2009, 10:39:25 AM
I thought it was 10% deposits required?

It is with Ulster Bank anyway!

The bgger the deposit = cheaper mortgage rate.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: under the bar on October 06, 2009, 10:11:54 PM
Quote
how are you working out the yield

To work out yield divide annual rent by cost of property and multiply by 100.

£6000/£150000*100 = 4%
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: heganboy on October 07, 2009, 01:29:26 PM

The average home rose in value by 1.6% in September compared with the previous month, to £163,533.

And prices in the three months to September increased by 2.8% compared with the previous quarter.

The Halifax, now part of Lloyds Banking Group, said that increased demand and a lack of supply were key to the rise.

if i read this right, this means the average price of a sold house, which is skewed as it means that those people who can afford a more expensive house are still able to buy them, great figure for the marketing folks to throw out as a sign of a recovery
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: FermGael on October 07, 2009, 01:48:50 PM
I thought it was 10% deposits required?

It is with Ulster Bank anyway!
Correct Goats but from what i hear they go through your application very thoroughly.
I think you must have at least £900 of disposable income after bills to get one.
I think they can see rate hikes in the future
Believe it of believe it not, all the approvals for Ulster Bank mortgages must come from Dublin.


The average home rose in value by 1.6% in September compared with the previous month, to £163,533.

And prices in the three months to September increased by 2.8% compared with the previous quarter.

The Halifax, now part of Lloyds Banking Group, said that increased demand and a lack of supply were key to the rise.

if i read this right, this means the average price of a sold house, which is skewed as it means that those people who can afford a more expensive house are still able to buy them, great figure for the marketing folks to throw out as a sign of a recovery
Exactly Heganboy.  Historically very low volumes of sales and most of them are happening in the +£250000 category.
Ironically enough, that is where the real slashing of prices have been happening.
what i would worry about is the quantive easing that is going on at the minute.
WHEN/IF that stops, there will be an all mighty fall.
But the UK government seem hell bent on letting that happen
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Harold Disgracey on October 07, 2009, 02:01:23 PM

The average home rose in value by 1.6% in September compared with the previous month, to £163,533.

And prices in the three months to September increased by 2.8% compared with the previous quarter.

The Halifax, now part of Lloyds Banking Group, said that increased demand and a lack of supply were key to the rise.

if i read this right, this means the average price of a sold house, which is skewed as it means that those people who can afford a more expensive house are still able to buy them, great figure for the marketing folks to throw out as a sign of a recovery
That would appear to be the case, the volume of transactions is still relatively small so a single property selling for £500k would skew the average house price. I'm writing a report on the housing market in Dungannon and was looking at the most recent BoI Quarterly House Price Index (q2 Aug) and it shows that the average price of a detached house in the area is 25% up on the same period last year and 8% up from their peak value in 2007!
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Goats Do Shave on October 07, 2009, 03:29:56 PM
I thought it was 10% deposits required?

It is with Ulster Bank anyway!
Correct Goats but from what i hear they go through your application very thoroughly.
I think you must have at least £900 of disposable income after bills to get one.
I think they can see rate hikes in the future
Believe it of believe it not, all the approvals for Ulster Bank mortgages must come from Dublin.

Any morgage reccomendations then?

Would anyone advise going to an advisor, as opposed to going direct to a bank?
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Bensars on October 07, 2009, 03:48:56 PM
I thought it was 10% deposits required?

It is with Ulster Bank anyway!
Correct Goats but from what i hear they go through your application very thoroughly.
I think you must have at least £900 of disposable income after bills to get one.
I think they can see rate hikes in the future
Believe it of believe it not, all the approvals for Ulster Bank mortgages must come from Dublin.

Any morgage reccomendations then?

Would anyone advise going to an advisor, as opposed to going direct to a bank?

No such thing as independent financial advice. Certain product pay more commission and are therefore more popular with the advisors. 

Speak to bank directly, cut out the middle man
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: FermGael on October 07, 2009, 04:29:31 PM
I thought it was 10% deposits required?

It is with Ulster Bank anyway!
Correct Goats but from what i hear they go through your application very thoroughly.
I think you must have at least £900 of disposable income after bills to get one.
I think they can see rate hikes in the future
Believe it of believe it not, all the approvals for Ulster Bank mortgages must come from Dublin.

Any morgage reccomendations then?

Would anyone advise going to an advisor, as opposed to going direct to a bank?

No such thing as independent financial advice. Certain product pay more commission and are therefore more popular with the advisors. 

Speak to bank directly, cut out the middle man

Goats I would go both to the banks and the financial advisor's.
There are some good local financial advisor's in most towns.
Ask around.  Local knowledge would be key. But they do get a commission as Bensar's said.
Some of the deals being offered by the banks are absolutely pathetic.
 
The one being offered by the Ulster Bank discounted by 0.5 on there standard variable is as good as it gets. 
It's discounted for 2 years and i think you need a 15% deposit.  Not sure though.
Can not see interest rates rising that much in the short term IMO
If you could get a good fixed rate for the next 10 years and you are sure you will stay put, i would grab it.
Anything between 5% and 6% although high now, may be a gift in 5-10 years time.

Goats have you bought or close to it??
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: orangeman on October 07, 2009, 04:41:16 PM

The average home rose in value by 1.6% in September compared with the previous month, to £163,533.

And prices in the three months to September increased by 2.8% compared with the previous quarter.

The Halifax, now part of Lloyds Banking Group, said that increased demand and a lack of supply were key to the rise.

if i read this right, this means the average price of a sold house, which is skewed as it means that those people who can afford a more expensive house are still able to buy them, great figure for the marketing folks to throw out as a sign of a recovery
That would appear to be the case, the volume of transactions is still relatively small so a single property selling for £500k would skew the average house price. I'm writing a report on the housing market in Dungannon and was looking at the most recent BoI Quarterly House Price Index (q2 Aug) and it shows that the average price of a detached house in the area is 25% up on the same period last year and 8% up from their peak value in 2007!



Mad. How did they come up with that ?
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: heganboy on October 07, 2009, 05:19:44 PM

Quote
Mad. How did they come up with that ?

so say september 2 years ago 5 houses sell in a town, one each at 120k, 130k, 140k, 200k and 370k, the average house price is 200k. total value of sales is 1m

last month however all the same houses are on the market listed at 80k, 85k, 90k, 140k and 270k respectively, only the 150 and 270k houses sell because the people who can still afford a mortgage can get better value in the market, and those who cant afford a mortgage are those who would typically buy the cheaper houses are currently screwed.

so despite the fact that all of the house prices have fallen, and that only 40% of houses are selling compared with the same time 2 years ago, that leaves the average house price at 210 magically a 5% increase in the average house price...

Lies, damn lies and statistics (and never trust an estate agent)
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Goats Do Shave on October 08, 2009, 09:10:21 AM
Quote
Goats have you bought or close to it??

Getting married next year... so would like to early next year maybe.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: DirtyDozen12 on October 12, 2009, 03:12:12 PM
I don't know much about buying a house, mortgages etc but am finding myself making enquires.  Am I correct in saying that banks will not give you a 100% mortgage for the value of the property you are looking to buy, i.e. if a house costs £150,000, the bank will only give you 85-90% of this and the other 15-10% you will have to come up with yourself? 

If you have no significant savings how can one come up with the 10-20 grand required to actually complete the purchase of the property?  Do they usually take out another loan through the credit union or through some other finance provider?  Excuse my ignorance, will be the 1st to admit I'm not that well clued up on all of this but i see from reading threads that a few posters here seem to know what their talking about when it comes to this sort of stuff.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Goats Do Shave on October 12, 2009, 03:15:34 PM
I don't know much about buying a house, mortgages etc but am finding myself making enquires.  Am I correct in saying that banks will not give you a 100% mortgage for the value of the property you are looking to buy, i.e. if a house costs £150,000, the bank will only give you 85-90% of this and the other 15-10% you will have to come up with yourself? 

If you have no significant savings how can one come up with the 10-20 grand required to actually complete the purchase of the property?  Do they usually take out another loan through the credit union or through some other finance provider?  Excuse my ignorance, will be the 1st to admit I'm not that well clued up on all of this but i see from reading threads that a few posters here seem to know what their talking about when it comes to this sort of stuff.

Ye may start saving... or hope you come into some money then!
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: DirtyDozen12 on October 12, 2009, 03:19:11 PM
I don't know much about buying a house, mortgages etc but am finding myself making enquires.  Am I correct in saying that banks will not give you a 100% mortgage for the value of the property you are looking to buy, i.e. if a house costs £150,000, the bank will only give you 85-90% of this and the other 15-10% you will have to come up with yourself? 

If you have no significant savings how can one come up with the 10-20 grand required to actually complete the purchase of the property?  Do they usually take out another loan through the credit union or through some other finance provider?  Excuse my ignorance, will be the 1st to admit I'm not that well clued up on all of this but i see from reading threads that a few posters here seem to know what their talking about when it comes to this sort of stuff.

Ye may start saving... or hope you come into some money then!

What im probably trying to ask is there many people at the moment who would get a mortgage from a bank and then borrow another 10-20 grand off say the credit union to enable them the purchase of the property?
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: armaghniac on October 12, 2009, 03:27:16 PM
Quote
If you have no significant savings how can one come up with the 10-20 grand required to actually complete the purchase of the property?

If you have no significant savings then you should not take on the commitment to buy a house, especially if you cannot manage 10 grand! if you have the income to service a mortgage with something to spare for eventualities then you can save 10 grand.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: long sleves on October 12, 2009, 03:35:25 PM
Quote
If you have no significant savings how can one come up with the 10-20 grand required to actually complete the purchase of the property?

If you have no significant savings then you should not take on the commitment to buy a house, especially if you cannot manage 10 grand! if you have the income to service a mortgage with something to spare for eventualities then you can save 10 grand.

Obviously it would take him time to save the 10 grand needed which is probably something he doesn't have if he wants to make a move on an available property.

Banks will take a look at what other commitments you have before giving you a mortgage therefore if at all possible secure the mortgage before going to get a credit union loan.

At present I have around £10K from Credit Union (£65 a week repayment over 5 years) and went for a mortgage. They said they would give me £100K (at £426 a month plus insurance) but I would have to pay off this other loan first in order to ensure I only have this one commitment. This leaves me £90K to build a bungalow of 2200 square feet, is this do-able?

All amounts above are GBP. I'm British.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on October 12, 2009, 03:35:41 PM
I don't know much about buying a house, mortgages etc but am finding myself making enquires.  Am I correct in saying that banks will not give you a 100% mortgage for the value of the property you are looking to buy, i.e. if a house costs £150,000, the bank will only give you 85-90% of this and the other 15-10% you will have to come up with yourself? 

If you have no significant savings how can one come up with the 10-20 grand required to actually complete the purchase of the property?  Do they usually take out another loan through the credit union or through some other finance provider?  Excuse my ignorance, will be the 1st to admit I'm not that well clued up on all of this but i see from reading threads that a few posters here seem to know what their talking about when it comes to this sort of stuff.

Ye may start saving... or hope you come into some money then!

What im probably trying to ask is there many people at the moment who would get a mortgage from a bank and then borrow another 10-20 grand off say the credit union to enable them the purchase of the property?

The Mortgage Provider will carry out a Creidt Bureau check on you to see have you any outstanding loans, debts, defaults, bounced direct debits etc. If any of these appear then this will make you application much weaker, they may expect you to clear any existing loans or be willing to give you less. Im not sure now, but up to about 2 years ago most Credit Unions did not appear on the Credit Bureau list, therefore they might not be able to see where your cash came from and you could say it was a family present, but I personaly would advise against this, because in the end of the day you are fooling yourself even more than the bank, as said before, you will be servicing 2 loans, and rememeber if the bank & credit union don't know about each other they are far less likelly to help you out if you get into trouble repaying them.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: blewuporstuffed on October 12, 2009, 03:37:17 PM
Quote
If you have no significant savings how can one come up with the 10-20 grand required to actually complete the purchase of the property?

If you have no significant savings then you should not take on the commitment to buy a house, especially if you cannot manage 10 grand! if you have the income to service a mortgage with something to spare for eventualities then you can save 10 grand.
you make it sound like 10k is not alot of money!!
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on October 12, 2009, 03:39:59 PM
Quote
If you have no significant savings how can one come up with the 10-20 grand required to actually complete the purchase of the property?

If you have no significant savings then you should not take on the commitment to buy a house, especially if you cannot manage 10 grand! if you have the income to service a mortgage with something to spare for eventualities then you can save 10 grand.
you make it sound like 10k is not alot of money!!

It is alot, I think thats his point, if you cannot save Ä10,000 or £10,000 you might be out of your depth servicing a mortgage, I know I would be.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on October 12, 2009, 03:41:12 PM
Quote
If you have no significant savings how can one come up with the 10-20 grand required to actually complete the purchase of the property?

If you have no significant savings then you should not take on the commitment to buy a house, especially if you cannot manage 10 grand! if you have the income to service a mortgage with something to spare for eventualities then you can save 10 grand.

Obviously it would take him time to save the 10 grand needed which is probably something he doesn't have if he wants to make a move on an available property.

Banks will take a look at what other commitments you have before giving you a mortgage therefore if at all possible secure the mortgage before going to get a credit union loan.

At present I have around £10K from Credit Union (£65 a week repayment over 5 years) and went for a mortgage. They said they would give me £100K (at £426 a month plus insurance) but I would have to pay off this other loan first in order to ensure I only have this one commitment. This leaves me £90K to build a bungalow of 2200 square feet, is this do-able?

All amounts above are GBP. I'm British.

Do the Credit Unions appear on the Credit Bureau checks in Northern Ireland/UK?
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: blewuporstuffed on October 12, 2009, 03:44:08 PM
Quote
If you have no significant savings how can one come up with the 10-20 grand required to actually complete the purchase of the property?

If you have no significant savings then you should not take on the commitment to buy a house, especially if you cannot manage 10 grand! if you have the income to service a mortgage with something to spare for eventualities then you can save 10 grand.
you make it sound like 10k is not alot of money!!

It is alot, I think thats his point, if you cannot save Ä10,000 or £10,000 you might be out of your depth servicing a mortgage, I know I would be.
think the problem is but, its not even just 10k, there are still very few houses about for 100k even with the fall in the market and with most banks needing at least 15% deposit, you ar talking more along the lines 18-20k for a deposit which is a hell of alot of money to save if you are looking somewre in the near future
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on October 12, 2009, 03:47:38 PM
Quote
If you have no significant savings how can one come up with the 10-20 grand required to actually complete the purchase of the property?

If you have no significant savings then you should not take on the commitment to buy a house, especially if you cannot manage 10 grand! if you have the income to service a mortgage with something to spare for eventualities then you can save 10 grand.
you make it sound like 10k is not alot of money!!

It is alot, I think thats his point, if you cannot save Ä10,000 or £10,000 you might be out of your depth servicing a mortgage, I know I would be.
think the problem is but, its not even just 10k, there are still very few houses about for 100k even with the fall in the market and with most banks needing at least 15% deposit, you ar talking more along the lines 18-20k for a deposit which is a hell of alot of money to save if you are looking somewre in the near future

Ya its much harder now too. 2 years ago there was the option of a loan from a family member (but everyone is skint now), selling the second car (nobody buying now, and they valueless anyways), working overtime (your lucky to have a job never mind getting overtime).
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: long sleves on October 12, 2009, 03:49:10 PM
Currently I have the foundations done and slabs on. Was honest when looking for a mortgage cause didn't want to be taking money that I couldn't afford to pay back. Don't think the credit union loans show up, however If you have a weekly/monthly amount coming out of your account like I had with the £65 a week the bank ask whats that for.

So £90,000 would it be enough to build and furnish a bungalow of 2200sq ft.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Caid on October 12, 2009, 03:54:50 PM
http://www.diydoctor.org.uk/projects/estimate.htm# states that during 2008 the average build cost of a house was in the region of £90 - £95 per square foot, for a reasonable standard specification and suggests a figure of £100 per square foot for a reasonable standard specification rising to £130-£140 per square foot for a high specification house this figure

Obviously costs depending on where you live - are you talking 90k just for the building i.e. excluding the cost of land and the footings you have in place?  Its do-able - with builders being so quiet you should price around and you may get a good quote.  That's a fairly big house your building then so
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: blewuporstuffed on October 12, 2009, 03:57:04 PM
Currently I have the foundations done and slabs on. Was honest when looking for a mortgage cause didn't want to be taking money that I couldn't afford to pay back. Don't think the credit union loans show up, however If you have a weekly/monthly amount coming out of your account like I had with the £65 a week the bank ask whats that for.

So £90,000 would it be enough to build and furnish a bungalow of 2200sq ft.
thats a big house LS, you must be planning plenty of weins!
wouldnt be an expert LS but i'd say would prob get the house up and maybe alot of it finished to a standard were you could at least move in, but would prob be stretching it to have the house completely decorated & furnished.
Unless everyone is very generous with their wedding presents  ;)
gonna depend alot on the finish, woodenfloors, tiles etc you want and if you have extras like under floor heating and every thing.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: long sleves on October 12, 2009, 03:59:31 PM
Quote
If you have no significant savings how can one come up with the 10-20 grand required to actually complete the purchase of the property?

If you have no significant savings then you should not take on the commitment to buy a house, especially if you cannot manage 10 grand! if you have the income to service a mortgage with something to spare for eventualities then you can save 10 grand.
you make it sound like 10k is not alot of money!!

It is alot, I think thats his point, if you cannot save Ä10,000 or £10,000 you might be out of your depth servicing a mortgage, I know I would be.
think the problem is but, its not even just 10k, there are still very few houses about for 100k even with the fall in the market and with most banks needing at least 15% deposit, you ar talking more along the lines 18-20k for a deposit which is a hell of alot of money to save if you are looking somewre in the near future

Ya its much harder now too. 2 years ago there was the option of a loan from a family member (but everyone is skint now), selling the second car (nobody buying now, and they valueless anyways), working overtime (your lucky to have a job never mind getting overtime).

What you need to do it......................................................... get married.

Cost of hotel reception £35 per person by 250 guests (not inc children)= £8,750. Band= £1,000. Other misc expenses; £3,000. Total costs: £12,750

Cash presents: 250 guests say 200 give you £100= £20,000.

Theres a profit of £7,250 so its a right start to the deposit.

Anyone else any money making schemes?

Caid I have around £20,000 of the work (estimated) done.  With the way things are at the minute I would be confident enough of getting it done within my budget.

What about DD12's problem though?
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: DirtyDozen12 on October 12, 2009, 04:05:25 PM
Quote
If you have no significant savings how can one come up with the 10-20 grand required to actually complete the purchase of the property?

If you have no significant savings then you should not take on the commitment to buy a house, especially if you cannot manage 10 grand! if you have the income to service a mortgage with something to spare for eventualities then you can save 10 grand.
you make it sound like 10k is not alot of money!!

It is alot, I think thats his point, if you cannot save Ä10,000 or £10,000 you might be out of your depth servicing a mortgage, I know I would be.
think the problem is but, its not even just 10k, there are still very few houses about for 100k even with the fall in the market and with most banks needing at least 15% deposit, you ar talking more along the lines 18-20k for a deposit which is a hell of alot of money to save if you are looking somewre in the near future

Ya its much harder now too. 2 years ago there was the option of a loan from a family member (but everyone is skint now), selling the second car (nobody buying now, and they valueless anyways), working overtime (your lucky to have a job never mind getting overtime).

What you need to do it......................................................... get married.

Cost of hotel reception £35 per person by 250 guests (not inc children)= £8,750. Band= £1,000. Other misc expenses; £3,000. Total costs: £12,750

Cash presents: 250 guests say 200 give you £100= £20,000.

Theres a profit of £7,250 so its a right start to the deposit.

Anyone else any money making schemes?

Caid I have around £20,000 of the work (estimated) done.  With the way things are at the minute I would be confident enough of getting it done within my budget.

What about DD12's problem though?

Dont worry about me, some of the lads on here have just made me think about which cardboard box i should go for rather than a mortagage!  There are plenty of good lay down places near the spare shot on Botanic Avenue, belfast, i reckon i could get right and comfortable there!!

Ill show you all!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: long sleves on October 12, 2009, 04:08:08 PM
If I want anything fancy like underfloor heating Prime Exhibit better come in on the 16.20 at Salisbury.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on October 12, 2009, 04:12:45 PM
Move into an empty ones in the empty housing estates in every City, town, village and townland around the country, sure the devoper might be glad that you kept the place heated and aired, stop the roof and windows falling in.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Caid on October 22, 2009, 03:22:02 PM
Has anyone any idea on how much value banks are currently giving on sites used as collateral in raising a mortgage.  IF you have an owned site worth maybe 30k would the bank give you a mortgage at say 4 times that amount?  Would you be required to put down some cash alongside that?
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Maguire01 on October 22, 2009, 06:25:03 PM
Has anyone any idea on how much value banks are currently giving on sites used as collateral in raising a mortgage.  IF you have an owned site worth maybe 30k would the bank give you a mortgage at say 4 times that amount?  Would you be required to put down some cash alongside that?
If you're saying you already own the site worth 30k, then I reckon the bank would take that as sufficient equity. Wouldn't be 100% sure, but as they'd effectively be holding the deeds to the property (land and buildings), i'd imagine the land would be a good 'deposit'.



Another question - with regard to making offers on new builds, say as part of a development, is there still the same room to negotiate / is it normal practice to haggle, or are the prices generally regarded as 'fixed' moreso than for single property sales?
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Caid on November 10, 2009, 01:39:43 PM
Bump - for all the fellas on the other thread
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: wallyman on December 20, 2009, 12:24:23 PM
Anyone with an informed opinion on the current state of the northern ireland property market?

thinking of buying first home in the new year, though if now is not the right time i will rent for a year or two.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: under the bar on December 20, 2009, 04:42:07 PM
The right time to buy is when no-one else is i.e. now.  If you wait for signs of a recovery then you will be competing with other bidders.   Look at as many as you can and compare the asking prices against similar properties on propertynews.com to make sure the vendor is being realistic.

Select the ones you'd buy if the price was right and make an offer of 20% below asking price.  You may get someone who will bite.

If you are a cash buyer you're negotiating position is many times stronger as an Estate Agent will be unwilling to try and convince a vendor to accept a low offer when the purchase is still subject to the purchaser getting finance.
 
The other option is a property auction where you can pick up a bargain due to distressed sales.  You'll need to be mortgage approved before you go though and be prepared to put down a deposit.   
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: dillinger on December 20, 2009, 09:57:48 PM
Anyone with an informed opinion on the current state of the northern ireland property market?

thinking of buying first home in the new year, though if now is not the right time i will rent for a year or two.

Buying 1st house soon, well 1st with new wife. Still falling i think, though near bottom now. This may have been said before, ask the agent what bids have been offered/ turned down.I have asked that on the houses i have viewed and been told. Agents want them sold to get their whack, they will tell you.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: under the bar on December 21, 2009, 08:49:01 PM
Quote
Another question - with regard to making offers on new builds, say as part of a development, is there still the same room to negotiate / is it normal practice to haggle, or are the prices generally regarded as 'fixed' moreso than for single property sales?[/quote

Of course there is room to haggle.  It's an 'asking price' not a 'fixed price'.  Developers have bills to pay just like any other businessmen and will certainly do a deal expecially if you have a big deposit and therefore not dependent on the bank agreeing that the house is worth the agreed price.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Goats Do Shave on February 04, 2010, 09:33:04 AM
Thought i'd give this thread a bump to see if there are any new opinion  / stories out there.

I still haven't purchased, still looking. Hasn't been the flood of for sale properties I was expecting in the new year (In the areas I'm looking at any way!)
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: venter on February 04, 2010, 10:37:53 AM
Also thinking of buying but read an interesting article advocating renting..its food for thought

http://www.irishhometruths.com/node/284
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: orangeman on February 04, 2010, 11:31:18 AM
NI house market 'shows recovery' 
 
The average price was £161,429 in the fourth quarter of 2009 
The latest survey of house prices in Northern Ireland has suggested the market showed modest signs of recovery in the last three months of 2009.

The report, by the University of Ulster and the Bank of Ireland, put the overall average price of a house in Northern Ireland at £161,429.

It also showed the number of transactions was at its highest level for the past two years.

The report's authors said the survey indicated an improving housing market.

It also said the rate of house price decline had dropped from 35% at the start of 2009 to just below 7%.

"Although overall average prices are still down, the rate of price decline has slowed significantly, with prospects for a modest increase in price levels during 2010," the report said.

The report said price statistics were based on a sample of 1,050 transactions in the fourth quarter of last year.

Although transaction levels are about half of what would be expected under normal conditions, the report said there had been a significant increase in the number of sales from recent surveys and suggested a recovery in the market could be under way.

Economist Alan Bridle, head of economics and research at Bank of Ireland in Northern Ireland, said: "The real mark of recovery in our housing market will be a pick-up in the number of transactions. This survey sounds an encouraging note.

'More affordable'

"Steady progress in activity levels may be the most likely and desirable scenario for this year but in my view we should not expect much of a re-bound in average prices and there is still a risk of them slipping further."

 
The survey indicated improving levels of affordability
The survey again showed property was becoming more affordable, with 57% of all properties selling at or below £150,000.

Mr Bridle added that first-time buyers, although having to find higher deposits, now had lower debt-servicing costs. He said interest payments as a percentage of income were now back at "pre-boom" levels of around 14%.

The Housing Executive's Head of Research, Joe Frey, said the increase in the level of transactions was to be welcomed as an indication that the housing market is returning to more normal conditions.
"However, we foresee continuing difficulties both for first-time buyers and for households looking for a social dwelling," he added.

The survey also confirmed the problems of getting the resale market fully functioning, with newly-built houses at 32% of the total, taking a disproportionately large percentage of the sales.

Click here for a regional breakdown of house price figures contained in the latest report, which covers sales between October and December.

 
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Canalman on February 04, 2010, 11:43:32 AM
Bit of advice imo lads

1 Do NOT buy an apt ....... tomorrow's (if not today's )slums
2 Try to buy a house (estate type anyway) built at the latest in the mid 80s. New houses built in the "boom" not up to scratch
3 Get a 4 bedroomed house if at all possible. Will imo hold value a tad better than the standard "3 bedroom....... incl a boxroom" of which there are plenty. Even in recession there will be people doing well hoping to upsize.
4 Trust your own instinct and don't listen to the hired guns masquerading as economic experts on the tv/radio.

Good Luck.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: thebigfella on February 04, 2010, 12:05:55 PM
Bit of advice imo lads

1 Do NOT buy an apt ....... tomorrow's (if not today's )slums
2 Try to buy a house (estate type anyway) built at the latest in the mid 80s. New houses built in the "boom" not up to scratch
3 Get a 4 bedroomed house if at all possible. Will imo hold value a tad better than the standard "3 bedroom....... incl a boxroom" of which there are plenty. Even in recession there will be people doing well hoping to upsize.
4 Trust your own instinct and don't listen to the hired guns masquerading as economic experts on the tv/radio.

Good Luck.

As opposed to a people on a GAA message forum masquerading as economic experts  :D
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: muppet on February 04, 2010, 12:14:18 PM
Bit of advice imo lads

1 Do NOT buy an apt ....... tomorrow's (if not today's )slums
2 Try to buy a house (estate type anyway) built at the latest in the mid 80s. New houses built in the "boom" not up to scratch
3 Get a 4 bedroomed house if at all possible. Will imo hold value a tad better than the standard "3 bedroom....... incl a boxroom" of which there are plenty. Even in recession there will be people doing well hoping to upsize.
4 Trust your own instinct and don't listen to the hired guns masquerading as economic experts on the tv/radio.

Good Luck.

Also never buy the biggest/most expensive house in the area, ideally buy the opposite.
Not sure about a 1980s house, if you do make sure it has been modernised unless you are handy around the house and like mountains of work.

If you are buying in north Dublin check it out for pyrite. And get the solicitor to make sure you are covered (i.e. builder/seller is responsible for repairs/costs) in the event of pyrite being discovered later.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: FermGael on February 04, 2010, 12:22:56 PM
I have completed post Christmas.
It has probably taken me over 2 years to buy.
Thank god i went travelling instead of buying a house.
I have been an avid watcher using a wee tool call property bee that shows you changes in the asking prices of property.
Works with property news.

I have been as cheeky as possible with all my offers and finally one was accepted.
Do not be afraid of cheeky offers. Its a buyers market
Estate agents are not to be trusted.
I found myself, on at least one occasion, bidding against myself.
Ask them to see a log book if there are other bidders and watch the jaw drop.

That last survey still has very low volumes of sales
I think that the property that i have bought will still fall in value but its in a good area and i am happy to LIVE there.
Massive cuts are coming when the next government hits and NI will be hit bad because of its huge public sector.
We are on governement life support and it will be withdrawn after next election
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Minder on February 04, 2010, 12:28:45 PM
Agree with Muppet, especially the "experts". Most of them have a vested interest to some degree. When an estate agent is on the tv talking about house prices, market climate etc, change the channel.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 04, 2010, 03:03:00 PM
Bit of advice imo lads

1 Do NOT buy an apt ....... tomorrow's (if not today's )slums
2 Try to buy a house (estate type anyway) built at the latest in the mid 80s. New houses built in the "boom" not up to scratch
3 Get a 4 bedroomed house if at all possible. Will imo hold value a tad better than the standard "3 bedroom....... incl a boxroom" of which there are plenty. Even in recession there will be people doing well hoping to upsize.
4 Trust your own instinct and don't listen to the hired guns masquerading as economic experts on the tv/radio.

Good Luck.

Also never buy the biggest/most expensive house in the area, ideally buy the opposite.
Not sure about a 1980s house, if you do make sure it has been modernised unless you are handy around the house and like mountains of work.

If you are buying in north Dublin check it out for pyrite. And get the solicitor to make sure you are covered (i.e. builder/seller is responsible for repairs/costs) in the event of pyrite being discovered later.
What's the story with pyrite?
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: muppet on February 04, 2010, 03:17:25 PM
Bit of advice imo lads

1 Do NOT buy an apt ....... tomorrow's (if not today's )slums
2 Try to buy a house (estate type anyway) built at the latest in the mid 80s. New houses built in the "boom" not up to scratch
3 Get a 4 bedroomed house if at all possible. Will imo hold value a tad better than the standard "3 bedroom....... incl a boxroom" of which there are plenty. Even in recession there will be people doing well hoping to upsize.
4 Trust your own instinct and don't listen to the hired guns masquerading as economic experts on the tv/radio.

Good Luck.

Also never buy the biggest/most expensive house in the area, ideally buy the opposite.
Not sure about a 1980s house, if you do make sure it has been modernised unless you are handy around the house and like mountains of work.

If you are buying in north Dublin check it out for pyrite. And get the solicitor to make sure you are covered (i.e. builder/seller is responsible for repairs/costs) in the event of pyrite being discovered later.
What's the story with pyrite?

Lots of houses/apartments built in the last decade used aggregate from a quarry in North Dublin that was found to contain pyrite. I think it absorbs and loses water meaning it expands and contracts making your foundations move and can cause massive structural damage. It can be repaired but it means boring into the foundations and takes about 3 months and a lot of money.

One of my problems with NAMA is that it will buy empty houses with pyrite problems that will either
a) cost a fortune to fix
or
b) fall down.

But they will never be worth what the taxpayer pays for them.

 
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Billys Boots on February 04, 2010, 03:45:39 PM
Do you know which quarry that was, Elmo?
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: muppet on February 04, 2010, 03:47:58 PM
Do you know which quarry that was, Elmo?

I don't actually but I'll get back to you on that one.

Edit: This court case names it.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0225/1224241775008.html (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0225/1224241775008.html)

Edit #2: More info plus photo.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0915/1224254556234.html (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0915/1224254556234.html)
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: muppet on February 22, 2010, 04:40:26 PM
The pyrite issue may be coming to a head:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/devastating-pyrite-epidemic-hits-20000-newly-built-houses-2073508.htm (http://www.independent.ie/national-news/devastating-pyrite-epidemic-hits-20000-newly-built-houses-2073508.htm)l
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: FL/MAYO on November 25, 2010, 03:40:24 PM
Are prices holding steady or dropping like a rock with all the recent turmoil? There must be some bargains out there or are the prime areas still out of reach for most of us.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: muppet on November 25, 2010, 04:02:44 PM
Are prices holding steady or dropping like a rock with all the recent turmoil? There must be some bargains out there or are the prime areas still out of reach for most of us.

Lots of 'bargains', if you can find a bank to give you a mortgage.

No real market at the moment.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: STREET FIGHTER on March 17, 2011, 12:49:39 PM
Well Folks

Anyone in the thinking of buying or currently bidding on a house at present?

Any advice in 2011?
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: muppet on March 17, 2011, 01:06:36 PM
Well Folks

Anyone in the thinking of buying or currently bidding on a house at present?

Any advice in 2011?

Just sold a house. Had to drop the price dramatically, was on sale for around 6 months.

It is very much a buyers market and guide prices can be seriously undercut when making an offer. The problem is getting finance. There are rumours of banks stringing people along with offers, hoping the sale doesn't go ahead and then pulling the plug at the end.

There is a line of thinking that expects a secondary fall in prices. Basically the logic is that rising unemployment, ECB rates rising, variable & fixed rates already rising, not to mention the auterity measures that are going to be required to pay back all the sovereign debt, all add up to more mortgage defaults, repossessions and downward pressure on prices.

As against that some landlords believe there is a bottom in the market created by the local councils. This logic takes the allowance given to single mothers as the floor for rental yield and the thinking is that values won't fall below levels at which this rent is attractive for investors. New taxes on non-principal residences (https://www.nppr.ie/) will affect this though.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: tyroneboi on April 20, 2012, 05:47:27 PM
Does anyone know much or have any experience in getting onto the co-ownership scheme in NI?
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: oisinog on April 20, 2012, 10:37:12 PM
Does anyone know much or have any experience in getting onto the co-ownership scheme in NI?

If you can afford a full repayment mortgage avoid it like the plague

Some of the banks are offering 95% mortgage of the top of my head I can think of Northern Bank and possibly santandar ( though their customer service is poor)
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Saffrongael on April 20, 2012, 11:15:20 PM
Does anyone know much or have any experience in getting onto the co-ownership scheme in NI?

If you can afford a full repayment mortgage avoid it like the plague

Some of the banks are offering 95% mortgage of the top of my head I can think of Northern Bank and possibly santandar ( though their customer service is poor)

Northern Bank customer service is woeful.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: bailestil on April 21, 2012, 09:34:15 AM
Does anyone know much or have any experience in getting onto the co-ownership scheme in NI?

Its a scheme to allow people who cant afford to buy a house, to buy a house. (it's like 2008 crash never happened)

Wouldnt touch it with a barge poll.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Santino on April 23, 2012, 08:34:10 PM
Anyone know of any good sites/forums for advice on buying my first house as investment to rent out (in NI)? Most stuff coming up on google seems to be written by estate agents/developers and not tips on getting best deal for a buyer
Thanks in advance
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: seafoid on April 24, 2012, 10:25:17 AM
Anyone know of any good sites/forums for advice on buying my first house as investment to rent out (in NI)? Most stuff coming up on google seems to be written by estate agents/developers and not tips on getting best deal for a buyer
Thanks in advance

"Everyone's a prostitute"  but Estate agents are in a different league.

I don't know of any sites but for me the main points about buying to let are :
 
-Location is the most important. Cashflow reliability is key.  Find a place that is close to a regular supply of renters - eg hospitals, offices, universities. A holiday home in Bundoran isn't going to generate enough cashflow.
 
-Don't overstretch on the loan. Will you be able to manage if the place is unlet for 2 months ?
 
- Work the numbers. How much are rents in the area and how much will the mortgage cost? what has been the trend in rents over the last few years`? . Calculate rent to house price ratios to get the yield. 

- do a stress test and look at what the situation would be if interest rates rose by 2%   

- Furniture should be solid but nothing special. It will be subject to the laws of entropy and get worn down

- The home is the place to decorate in your own style. Rented accommodation should be painted in a neutral colour. It will let faster.   

- Decide on whether or not you want to manage the let yourself or get an estate agent to do it.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Santino on April 24, 2012, 09:10:56 PM
Thanks seafoid. All new to me. Looking at few houses in Banbridge which is a pretty fast growing town so should be some good deals around
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Jimmy on December 16, 2015, 09:35:07 PM
Thought I'd give this thread a bump as I'm sorta half interested in trying to buy a house.

Anyone any recent experience? I'm working in Belfast now so would be interested to hear from anyone who's bought there.

Good time/Bad time/missed the boat after a property recovery?
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: illdecide on December 17, 2015, 08:28:17 AM
Thought I'd give this thread a bump as I'm sorta half interested in trying to buy a house.

Anyone any recent experience? I'm working in Belfast now so would be interested to hear from anyone who's bought there.

Good time/Bad time/missed the boat after a property recovery?

In the process of buying one myself...it depends what you want. If you're looking for something say about £90k - £100k so that in say 20 years time your kids can have it somewhere respectable then thats good but if you're just interested in making money then a house about £50k with a Polish renter in a not so good area but getting almost the same rent with only half the mortgage...depends what your looking for and for what purpose.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: laceer on December 17, 2015, 09:01:00 AM
Thought I'd give this thread a bump as I'm sorta half interested in trying to buy a house.

Anyone any recent experience? I'm working in Belfast now so would be interested to hear from anyone who's bought there.

Good time/Bad time/missed the boat after a property recovery?

I don't think prices are going to increase an awful lot more but they won't be going down any time soon so if you're thinking about buying then sooner rather than later would be better imo. Interest rates can only go up as well so mortgages are never going to cheaper than at the present time.

Collecting the keys of our first house tomorrow. Daunting enough process but the best advice I got was to research everything thoroughly - look at how much similar houses in the area have sold for, take a drive about, go to the local pub, the shop, the chippy - they'll give you a feel for who your neighbours will be. Speak to the person who is selling the house if possible - the estate agent may not give you the full picture if it is not in their interest. Remember that the estate agents and solicitors are glad of your business - without you they wouldn't be earning anything so make sure to ask them as many questions as you need. Phone them up and ask for updates if you think they are stalling.

If you are not in a chain and have a mortgage approved in principle then you are in a great bargaining position - don't allow the estate agent to tell you any different. I read a good quote that a house is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it - sometimes the estate agent needs to be reminded of this!
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: DennistheMenace on December 17, 2015, 09:04:49 AM
In Belfast especially, the 3 most important things to consider in a house are, location, location, location.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: general on December 17, 2015, 10:23:10 AM
Just bought a house to be built feb/march completion - although they are putting the roof on this morning.

http://www.bestpropertyservices.com/ballyblaugh-meadows/d1541

Just outside Newry, a few mins from the North/South Motorway. Belfast in 35 mins, Dublin in 50 mins.

20 3 bed semi's being built by a local builder who has completed numerous developments over the last 10 years with no stories about bad building or any horror stories you sometimes hear about.

3 Bed semi for £120k, reasonable enough, middle of the country but close by to Newry, Dublin, Belfast. Also given a PC SUMs to go off and purchase kitchen, tiles, bathrooms etc. Found this very tight but if you shop around its wild what some people will charge you. I priced like for like in bathrooms & Kitchens and saved £1500 on the bathrooms and £3500!! on the kitchen.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Longshanks on March 13, 2017, 10:07:57 AM
Bought a house recently, it was a repo and obviously needed someone attention but is a good house. the sitting room floor is wooden and we asked the estate agent to turn the water off while we bought it. They turned it off, disconnected the water to the tank and opened all the radiators.
Anyway we dont know if there is a connection but the day after getting the keys there is a rise of nearly two inches in the wooden floor beside where the radiator is in the sitting? would we have any come back and does anyone have any ideas?
This wasn't there either of the two times we first looked at the house.
On a side note does anyone know where you could get borax? I'm based in Belfast at the moment but moving into mid ulster.

Cheers in advance
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Owen Brannigan on March 13, 2017, 10:21:34 AM
From the time you sign for the house and it is legally yours then the responsibility for anything falls to you.  This unfortunately includes any building defects that may have been present that you did not raise with the seller and negotiate a lower price.  Given it is a repo then you are probably in a weaker position.  Though hard to see how a leak in the heating only became apparent after you bought it.

Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Longshanks on March 13, 2017, 11:10:34 AM
From the time you sign for the house and it is legally yours then the responsibility for anything falls to you.  This unfortunately includes any building defects that may have been present that you did not raise with the seller and negotiate a lower price.  Given it is a repo then you are probably in a weaker position.  Though hard to see how a leak in the heating only became apparent after you bought it.

Aye its just last time we were in the house was maybe 8 weeks ago when we made the final decision to go for it and the rising in the wooden floor has happened between then and now and not something we expected, aye think we are in a weak position alright just annoying as its not something we accounted for or that was part of the deal and think it could be the fault of the estate agents for the way they dealt with the radiators perhaps. Hard to know but just frustrating.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: tc_manchester on March 14, 2017, 08:37:38 AM
Folks,
   I just moved to Newbridge, Co. Kildare from Manchester last year. I'm an I.T. contractor and I'm currently working on a UK contract through my UK company. I've had a UK limited company for 20 years. I'd like to buy a house in Newbridge but the 2 mortgage brokers I've went to in kildare are telling me that the banks will  not take into account my UK earnings. Since I'm earning only sterling this leaves me in limbo. I'm only looking for a 50% mortgage at about 1.5 times earnings. I'm assuming that living in the south and earning sterling would be common enough around the border areas. Has anybody recently been able to get a euro mortgage while working in the UK?
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Donagh on March 14, 2017, 09:03:10 AM
After moving from the north and trying to get a southern mortgage my guess is you'd be best to sit tight for a while, open Euro current & savings accounts in Kildare and pay into these regularly for about 6 months from your UK company account, before looking a mortgage. I have heard of mortgages based on overseas earnings e.g. for returning emigrants but they are at silly interest rates.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Owen Brannigan on March 14, 2017, 10:31:28 AM
From the time you sign for the house and it is legally yours then the responsibility for anything falls to you.  This unfortunately includes any building defects that may have been present that you did not raise with the seller and negotiate a lower price.  Given it is a repo then you are probably in a weaker position.  Though hard to see how a leak in the heating only became apparent after you bought it.

Aye its just last time we were in the house was maybe 8 weeks ago when we made the final decision to go for it and the rising in the wooden floor has happened between then and now and not something we expected, aye think we are in a weak position alright just annoying as its not something we accounted for or that was part of the deal and think it could be the fault of the estate agents for the way they dealt with the radiators perhaps. Hard to know but just frustrating.

It is possible for a floor to lift without a leak in the radiators.  It could be that you have a damp problem at floor level and the cute estate agents may have had the heat running low to keep the damp down.  When the rads were off then the damp was absorbs into the floor and caused it to swell.  I have seen this happen with a floating floor where it collected the damp and swelled up with enough force to lift a piano!  Check this out.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: aontroim on March 14, 2017, 11:18:07 AM
Bought a house recently, it was a repo and obviously needed someone attention but is a good house. the sitting room floor is wooden and we asked the estate agent to turn the water off while we bought it. They turned it off, disconnected the water to the tank and opened all the radiators.
Anyway we dont know if there is a connection but the day after getting the keys there is a rise of nearly two inches in the wooden floor beside where the radiator is in the sitting? would we have any come back and does anyone have any ideas?
This wasn't there either of the two times we first looked at the house.
On a side note does anyone know where you could get borax? I'm based in Belfast at the moment but moving into mid ulster.

Cheers in advance

I've used this lot before with no hassle Longshanks.  Plenty of choice for product based on what you're treating - eg. Woodworm / Dry Rot / Wet Rot etc.
http://www.boron.org.uk/Boracolshop.htm (http://www.boron.org.uk/Boracolshop.htm)


Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: The_geezer on May 29, 2018, 09:07:09 PM
Hi folks,. Have a query. 2 brothers live in Australia and are looking to buy a house a home which is currently on the market. Both have plenty of money but the bank won't give them a mortgage as they don't live at home currently. Has anyone come across this before or Know if any ways round it?
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Hardy on May 29, 2018, 09:25:29 PM
Hi folks,. Have a query. 2 brothers live in Australia and are looking to buy a house a home which is currently on the market. Both have plenty of money but the bank won't give them a mortgage as they don't live at home currently. Has anyone come across this before or Know if any ways round it?

My son in Australia has just bought a house back here in Cork with a view to coming home next year. He organised the mortgage here through a mortgage broker. There was no difficulty. So it may be just the bank your brothers approached that has that policy. I'd say tell them to shop around or contact a broker.

It's 4:25 a.m. in Perth right now, but if you want more details let me know and I'll contact him tomorrow.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: The_geezer on May 29, 2018, 09:34:39 PM
Cheers that would be great. Alot of their money which they have been sending home is currently in this bank. So they havn't shopped Around at all yet.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Hardy on May 30, 2018, 01:04:43 PM
Sent you a p.m. geezer.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Rois on October 03, 2018, 05:32:37 PM
Buying a new build (in the north) and contract just landed from vendor - they aren't adopting the roads so will be private roads.

Anyone have any experience of how people deal with that?  Really really putting us off if we can't get a resolution.  Does it suggest the builder/developer not constructing roads up to right standard?
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: armaghniac on October 03, 2018, 06:18:46 PM
Buying a new build (in the north) and contract just landed from vendor - they aren't adopting the roads so will be private roads.

Anyone have any experience of how people deal with that?  Really really putting us off if we can't get a resolution.  Does it suggest the builder/developer not constructing roads up to right standard?

maybe worth researching the originally planning permission for the development.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Aughafad on October 03, 2018, 07:14:50 PM
I've dealt with this a few times over the years. Roads aren't adopted for one of two reasons: 1 - they are not up to transport ni standards e.g. poor visible splays, narrow footpaths or just poorly built. 2. the developer owes money to transport NI (road service) in the form of a bond for this site or another.

If its the first point, i would be wary of the liability you as a home owner would be taking on, such as the responsibility for sewers to the road boundary rather than your site boundary as well as any other utilities within the development.

You can PM me with development details and i can check with contacts within transport ni to find out why its not being adopted if you like.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Rois on October 03, 2018, 08:54:01 PM
I've dealt with this a few times over the years. Roads aren't adopted for one of two reasons: 1 - they are not up to transport ni standards e.g. poor visible splays, narrow footpaths or just poorly built. 2. the developer owes money to transport NI (road service) in the form of a bond for this site or another.

If its the first point, i would be wary of the liability you as a home owner would be taking on, such as the responsibility for sewers to the road boundary rather than your site boundary as well as any other utilities within the development.

You can PM me with development details and i can check with contacts within transport ni to find out why its not being adopted if you like.
Thank you - likely to be Number 2 - the front man is a former bankrupt, though he is not the site owner. It scares us that even public liability would rest with us. Only 6 houses in the development. I might take you up on the offer - trying a couple of other ways of finding out the craic. We wonít buy if thereís any risk. Weíre the first to buy in the dev. Gutted this eve.
Can he (developer) go now and get bond etc and get them adopted?
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Aughafad on October 04, 2018, 08:55:35 AM
Generally no, as transport Ni like to inspect each stage of the road structure as itís built.
One question I would ask is if the road is not being adopted, who will the owner be of the road? As they still will have responsibilities in regards to drain/sewer/street lighting maintenance.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: illdecide on October 04, 2018, 10:02:17 AM
Buying a new build (in the north) and contract just landed from vendor - they aren't adopting the roads so will be private roads.

Anyone have any experience of how people deal with that?  Really really putting us off if we can't get a resolution.  Does it suggest the builder/developer not constructing roads up to right standard?

Hi Rois, sound like to me they're keeping the roads private because they don't meet the specification. This does not necessarily mean they will be constructed of a poorer quality but could simply be that they don't have the adequate road width or geometry to meet the DMRB/Creating Places guide lines, they will still construct the road to a standard that will be to the BSEN standards as they will have submitted drawings to planners and Transport NI etc for approval.
The only issue you will have is not now but maybe 10 years down the line when/if the road was to break up or the un-adopted sewers below the road that will remain private (as Aughfad pointed out) will be the responsibility of the home owners within the private road area and this will be written into your contract that your solicitor will point out to you. You may well pay an annual subscription into a management company that will be responsible for maintenance of un-adopted sewers and roads. If your car leaked brake fluid over the nice new road and crumbled the surface up and the next heavy frost breaks it up or your neighbour does this who fixes this if there is no management in place?...having said all that i've designed plenty of roads in small developments that have had private sewers and roads and TBH there hasn't been much of an issue...there never is an issue until something happens...just tell your neighbours not to throw wet wipes down the toilet...A BIG NO NO...hope that helps, if you need any further info or a contact no for someone in TRANSPORT NI give me a PM...
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: majestic on June 08, 2020, 05:36:06 PM
Hi all

Have recently agreed to buy a new build house (as a first time buyer), nothing has been signed as yet other than the agreement with the estate agent that will hold the site for us. Have inquired about the possibility of reducing the price of the house because of the virus and the damage it will likely do to the economy. They are not changing on the purchase price of the property but have suggested they may pay for some extras which we wanted, need confirmation on this. The estate agent has suggested that 90% if the sales are still going ahead as planned and don't foresee any change in demand, I am having real difficultly believing the 90% figure. Anyone got any thoughts?
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Rois on June 08, 2020, 05:59:40 PM
I went sale agreed on a house last week. Price is largely what it was on at before lockdown.
Had mortgage appointment today - they said that they arenít able to approve any new mortgage drawdowns yet as valuations canít take place. we can get an offer subject to full valuation, but wonít Be able to complete. Now I would assume new builds are different.

My colleague just completed on her new build last week and didnít get a price reduction.

Word from one of the big developers in the north is that they are not reducing prices on new builds.

So you may end up saving a bit if you wait, but you might not, depends on how desperate the builder is.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: tbrick18 on June 10, 2020, 04:50:04 PM
Personally, I think it's inevitable that house prices will fall over the coming year.
The UK economy is predicted to be one of the worst hit economies

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52991913

Think back to 2007 when we had the crash what the effect was to house prices.
Predictions now are that this will be a bigger hit to the economy than that of 2007.
If the economy shrinks, there are less jobs and less money around. People are more likely to be out of work so less likely to be in a position to buy. Banks are less likely to lend and the knock on effect is that there is not the same demand for property which drives prices down.

Of course estate agents and builders don't want to reduce prices now, they will want as much as they can get now as their income could well reduce by a large percentage over the coming year.

For me, if I wanted to buy, I'd hold on 6 months and see where things are then.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: bennydorano on June 10, 2020, 05:13:38 PM
A lot of builders & estate agents playing their poker faces at the minute. How can there be anything other than a major, major downturn? Inevitable imo.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Rois on June 10, 2020, 06:01:21 PM
I'd love to be able to hold on for six months but am desperate.

However, I still don't think it'll be as bad as in 2007 (13 years of paying a mortgage and I'm still just about break-even).  But I do laugh at the agents talking it up.
Pre-lockdown prices were not as inflated as they would have been in 2007 as people weren't able to get stupid levels of mortgages from banks to drive prices up.  Therefore they don't have as far to fall.

The developers who have come out alive are much more wary around working capital (generally build what they can afford) and haven't had the endless supply of capital from banks to build vast estates.  There are far fewer people who have turned their amateur hand to property development.

Doubtless there will be an impact due to job losses, but flooding the market with excess stock held by wannabe developers or building firms on the brink of collapse just won't be possible - the stocks don't exist in the same way. 

Commercial real estate - that's a different ball game altogether.

Now, when can valuers get access to houses?  That's what will hold my process up.  Think land registry may have opened again.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: bennydorano on June 11, 2020, 12:24:27 PM
Yeah, it doesn't have as far to fall as back then. I bought on the down slide of that crash, the fella that I bought the house of had been offered 100,000k more than I paid for it just 18-24mths previous, and it's nothing special! Utter madness, I'd say I'd just about scrape past what I paid for it if I had sold pre Covid.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: illdecide on June 11, 2020, 02:18:12 PM
A friend of mine is looking to buy atm too and he asked for my advice (don't know much about it), he's asking should he wait another few months and see if house prices fall. Suppose everything is a risk and it's hard to know what's going to happen in the next 6-12 months, I know my house price hadn't really went up that much from i bought it 14 years ago and knowing my luck it'll prob drop back down to what i paid for it. 10 years left of a mortgage...can't wait.

Rois...i thought you'd bought a house in Lurgan last year? Did that fall thru?
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: tbrick18 on June 11, 2020, 02:23:00 PM
Its really difficult to know how the market will react or how quickly it will come back.
The prices of houses is one thing, but banks could become more strict about lending again too.
With uncertainty in the economy, there will be uncertainty around employment and so a mortgage could be higher risk than it is currently.

The other thing affecting the market will be the ability to sell a house so that you can move up the property ladder. If my house falls in value into negative equity, I'm less likely to sell or to buy.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Rois on June 11, 2020, 05:40:11 PM


Rois...i thought you'd bought a house in Lurgan last year? Did that fall thru?

Er...yeah - fell through when the developer demanded an extra £30k from us the week we were due to move.
Never fear, attempt number 3 at buying in Lurgan is still under way...I'll be in that ice cream place before the summer's out!

Interestingly though, we were looking at a Belfast new build in January, and it came down to two of us who had no chain and looked to be good bets.  The agent tried to get us into a bidding war (on a new build!) or a contract race.  The other bidder threw a few exta £ks on, and we didn't bother matching it, so lost it. 
Just this afternoon, the agent contacted me and asked if we were still interested, as the other person hadn't been able to progress the mortgage.  I feel a genuine delight in telling the agent to f**k off. 
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: JohnDenver on June 11, 2020, 05:44:47 PM


Rois...i thought you'd bought a house in Lurgan last year? Did that fall thru?

Er...yeah - fell through when the developer demanded an extra £30k from us the week we were due to move.
Never fear, attempt number 3 at buying in Lurgan is still under way...I'll be in that ice cream place before the summer's out!

Interestingly though, we were looking at a Belfast new build in January, and it came down to two of us who had no chain and looked to be good bets.  The agent tried to get us into a bidding war (on a new build!) or a contract race.  The other bidder threw a few exta £ks on, and we didn't bother matching it, so lost it. 
Just this afternoon, the agent contacted me and asked if we were still interested, as the other person hadn't been able to progress the mortgage.  I feel a genuine delight in telling the agent to f**k off.

How much commission do these agents be on?  Is it worth that shite of playing potential buyers off each other for the extra few £ks on the overall price as you say?

I'd be of the same opinion as you in telling him where to go, but no doubt he'll still get the sale through with somebody else.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: macdanger2 on June 11, 2020, 08:07:18 PM


Rois...i thought you'd bought a house in Lurgan last year? Did that fall thru?

Er...yeah - fell through when the developer demanded an extra £30k from us the week we were due to move.
Never fear, attempt number 3 at buying in Lurgan is still under way...I'll be in that ice cream place before the summer's out!

Interestingly though, we were looking at a Belfast new build in January, and it came down to two of us who had no chain and looked to be good bets.  The agent tried to get us into a bidding war (on a new build!) or a contract race.  The other bidder threw a few exta £ks on, and we didn't bother matching it, so lost it. 
Just this afternoon, the agent contacted me and asked if we were still interested, as the other person hadn't been able to progress the mortgage.  I feel a genuine delight in telling the agent to f**k off.

Delighted for him, they're generally a useless bunch of pr*cks no more than recruitment agents
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 11, 2020, 08:23:54 PM
Hate them also, always pushing their price up to screw a few more quid off you.

When I moved years ago sale agreed on both sides, then the person buying ours wanted to take a grand off it on the last day, I said fine, when leaving I took everything out of the garden, shed, plants.

Took all the blinds that I was going to leave as they wouldnít have fitted my new house, felt like pulling up the carpets!

Would love to buy a house to rent! Might look into next year
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on June 11, 2020, 09:26:00 PM
only buy a house if you can genuinely afford it, and get as little mortgage as possible (50% is ideal), don't be a slave to your desk and the bank

if the interest rates rocket to 5, 7 or even 10  ???  (unlikely but not impossible, the last few months show anything can happen)

a lot of people will be in serious trouble if they over leverage themselves
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 14, 2020, 09:22:43 AM
only buy a house if you can genuinely afford it, and get as little mortgage as possible (50% is ideal), don't be a slave to your desk and the bank

if the interest rates rocket to 5, 7 or even 10  ???  (unlikely but not impossible, the last few months show anything can happen)

a lot of people will be in serious trouble if they over leverage themselves

Affording it is not the problem, Iím looking at it as my nest egg!

Anyone any experience in buying and doing up houses and selling them on?
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on June 14, 2020, 10:43:44 AM
Dion Dublin.
Not sure if hes on here though
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 14, 2020, 11:50:20 AM
Dion Dublin.
Not sure if hes on here though

His football punditry is enough for me
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: illdecide on June 14, 2020, 03:00:28 PM


Rois...i thought you'd bought a house in Lurgan last year? Did that fall thru?

Er...yeah - fell through when the developer demanded an extra £30k from us the week we were due to move.
Never fear, attempt number 3 at buying in Lurgan is still under way...I'll be in that ice cream place before the summer's out!

Interestingly though, we were looking at a Belfast new build in January, and it came down to two of us who had no chain and looked to be good bets.  The agent tried to get us into a bidding war (on a new build!) or a contract race.  The other bidder threw a few exta £ks on, and we didn't bother matching it, so lost it. 
Just this afternoon, the agent contacted me and asked if we were still interested, as the other person hadn't been able to progress the mortgage.  I feel a genuine delight in telling the agent to f**k off.

You should Rois...their hooks the lot of them and all they care about it is screwing you for every last pound they can get out of you.

I've had a few run-ins with them like two years ago i asked one to my house to value my house (straight forward enough task), when she arrived i then asked her to value my house from a detached 4 bed to a 6 bedroom house as when my house was being built i paid an extra £2k for attic conversion trusses and also an extra £500 for the T&G flooring and floored my whole roof space out so it's only a matter of putting the stairs up to the 3rd floor and fit it out. My question to her was if i spend £10k on doing all this works and adding an extra 2 bedrooms to my house what will it add to my house as if it was only going to add £10k-£15k then it might not be worth all the hassle of the works...She basically said "I don't know"...It's your job to know, sweet Jasus.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: The Subbie on June 14, 2020, 10:54:37 PM


Rois...i thought you'd bought a house in Lurgan last year? Did that fall thru?

Er...yeah - fell through when the developer demanded an extra £30k from us the week we were due to move.
Never fear, attempt number 3 at buying in Lurgan is still under way...I'll be in that ice cream place before the summer's out!

Interestingly though, we were looking at a Belfast new build in January, and it came down to two of us who had no chain and looked to be good bets.  The agent tried to get us into a bidding war (on a new build!) or a contract race.  The other bidder threw a few exta £ks on, and we didn't bother matching it, so lost it. 
Just this afternoon, the agent contacted me and asked if we were still interested, as the other person hadn't been able to progress the mortgage.  I feel a genuine delight in telling the agent to f**k off.

One of the most delicious f**k offs you can ever issue is a f**k off to an estate agent
Well done Rois !
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Maroon Manc on June 16, 2020, 10:49:44 AM
Hard not too see prices been affected, most lenders have removed their 85% & 90% LTV products which will huge affects on the first time buyer market.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Rois on June 16, 2020, 11:25:42 AM
Hard not too see prices been affected, most lenders have removed their 85% & 90% LTV products which will huge affects on the first time buyer market.
Danske in the north trying to get their 90% back for some cases apparently. 

I'm waiting on a bank valuation at the minute - that's where our fear is, that a blanket % reduction will be applied to valuations.  I'll update the outcome here.   
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: general on June 16, 2020, 11:32:05 AM
Just seen a house beside me go up for sale. 125k turn key 5 years ago.

On sale yesterday for 167k 😂😂

I'd near ring the agent myself 🤣 madness
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on June 16, 2020, 03:29:57 PM
Anyone know what is happening with valuations at the min? Been waiting for weeks and been told my the mortgage advisor to expect a call any day - that was two weeks ago.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on June 16, 2020, 03:36:29 PM
Back in action to a large extent Sam i think, they are prob just working their way through the backlog
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on June 16, 2020, 04:15:55 PM
Back in action to a large extent Sam i think, they are prob just working their way through the backlog

Yeah can appreciate there is a massive backlog. Wonder is this just since Monday they are back in action or has it been for a few weeks now?
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on June 16, 2020, 04:25:45 PM
Depends on lender/valuer but id say majority are just back in action this week chap...
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on June 16, 2020, 04:32:11 PM
Depends on lender/valuer but id say majority are just back in action this week chap...

cheers
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: screenexile on June 16, 2020, 04:51:27 PM
Thinking about buying a second house in the near future... thinking maybe Portstewart where you can get a 9 month student rental and then have it for the Summer.

Will probably leave it to the New Year to see how prices are affected.

Has anyone any similar experience? There seem to be a few of these houses for sale at the minute I wonder if you're guaranteed to get it let or not during the year?
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 16, 2020, 06:01:41 PM
Thinking about buying a second house in the near future... thinking maybe Portstewart where you can get a 9 month student rental and then have it for the Summer.

Will probably leave it to the New Year to see how prices are affected.

Has anyone any similar experience? There seem to be a few of these houses for sale at the minute I wonder if you're guaranteed to get it let or not during the year?

I was told Dion Dublin Could help  ;D

But yeah Portstewart seems practical, Iíve a friend who has three houses in England and bought one recently in Wales! Rents them out, him and his brother, they have a few quid so can afford it.

Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on June 16, 2020, 06:15:28 PM
I would say in fairness that post to Screen was about as useful as my Dion Dublin one to you MR2 😂😂
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Maroon Manc on June 16, 2020, 06:31:10 PM
Thinking about buying a second house in the near future... thinking maybe Portstewart where you can get a 9 month student rental and then have it for the Summer.

Will probably leave it to the New Year to see how prices are affected.

Has anyone any similar experience? There seem to be a few of these houses for sale at the minute I wonder if you're guaranteed to get it let or not during the year?

You might already be aware but worth bearing in mind the tax laws have changed in recent years for those who are higher rate tax payers, obviously buying in a LTD company would eradicate that problem but the interest rate wouldn't be as attractive.


Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 16, 2020, 07:55:27 PM
I would say in fairness that post to Screen was about as useful as my Dion Dublin one to you MR2 😂😂

Itís is, as Iíve no idea, thatís why I asked  ;D
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 16, 2020, 07:57:48 PM
Thinking about buying a second house in the near future... thinking maybe Portstewart where you can get a 9 month student rental and then have it for the Summer.

Will probably leave it to the New Year to see how prices are affected.

Has anyone any similar experience? There seem to be a few of these houses for sale at the minute I wonder if you're guaranteed to get it let or not during the year?

You might already be aware but worth bearing in mind the tax laws have changed in recent years for those who are higher rate tax payers, obviously buying in a LTD company would eradicate that problem but the interest rate wouldn't be as attractive.

What if someone bought it whoís not a big tax earner? But just enough to get a bank to lend the money?

Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Rois on June 16, 2020, 08:30:04 PM
Thinking about buying a second house in the near future... thinking maybe Portstewart where you can get a 9 month student rental and then have it for the Summer.

Will probably leave it to the New Year to see how prices are affected.

Has anyone any similar experience? There seem to be a few of these houses for sale at the minute I wonder if you're guaranteed to get it let or not during the year?

You might already be aware but worth bearing in mind the tax laws have changed in recent years for those who are higher rate tax payers, obviously buying in a LTD company would eradicate that problem but the interest rate wouldn't be as attractive.
Whatís the tax law change for higher rate payers?
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 16, 2020, 08:33:20 PM
Thinking about buying a second house in the near future... thinking maybe Portstewart where you can get a 9 month student rental and then have it for the Summer.

Will probably leave it to the New Year to see how prices are affected.

Has anyone any similar experience? There seem to be a few of these houses for sale at the minute I wonder if you're guaranteed to get it let or not during the year?

You might already be aware but worth bearing in mind the tax laws have changed in recent years for those who are higher rate tax payers, obviously buying in a LTD company would eradicate that problem but the interest rate wouldn't be as attractive.
Whatís the tax law change for higher rate payers?

Higher rate or higher tax rate payers?
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: imtommygunn on June 16, 2020, 08:42:11 PM
The only thing I can see on higher rate tax payers is the tax on profits of selling your house? (I couldnít work out if it was second home only but presumably most who makes profits on a first home it will just be put back into the other house anyway so wonít be profit?)  Also it would presumably only kick in if you had no mortgage?

*disclaimer I donít know very much on tax of these things but was just interested on the higher rate tax thing
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: PMG1 on June 17, 2020, 01:13:06 AM
Thinking about buying a second house in the near future... thinking maybe Portstewart where you can get a 9 month student rental and then have it for the Summer.

Will probably leave it to the New Year to see how prices are affected.

Has anyone any similar experience? There seem to be a few of these houses for sale at the minute I wonder if you're guaranteed to get it let or not during the year?
I have a few properties that I rent out, my experience with renting to students (I have on in the holy lands) is not great, generally have a lot of money to spend each time they leave but maybe I just got the wrong ones and I donít think Portstewart would be as bad party wise as the holy lands. I gave up after 3 years and decided to rent to a family of Romanians, I would be afraid to see the state of the house when they leave but they have been in it for 7 years and I havenít had one bit of bother with them.

Overall the key to buy tickets is to not worry about the house value in two or five years time, take a long term view and just get the mortgage paid off as hassle free as possible then think that in 10/15years time you have a nice wee income every month as an early pension. If you are putting students in donít put expensive furniture in for them, keep everything basic and as unbreakable as possible.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: delgany on June 17, 2020, 03:12:26 AM
Thinking about buying a second house in the near future... thinking maybe Portstewart where you can get a 9 month student rental and then have it for the Summer.

Will probably leave it to the New Year to see how prices are affected.

Has anyone any similar experience? There seem to be a few of these houses for sale at the minute I wonder if you're guaranteed to get it let or not during the year?
I have a few properties that I rent out, my experience with renting to students (I have on in the holy lands) is not great, generally have a lot of money to spend each time they leave but maybe I just got the wrong ones and I donít think Portstewart would be as bad party wise as the holy lands. I gave up after 3 years and decided to rent to a family of Romanians, I would be afraid to see the state of the house when they leave but they have been in it for 7 years and I havenít had one bit of bother with them.

Overall the key to buy tickets is to not worry about the house value in two or five years time, take a long term view and just get the mortgage paid off as hassle free as possible then think that in 10/15years time you have a nice wee income every month as an early pension. If you are putting students in donít put expensive furniture in for them, keep everything basic and as unbreakable as possible.

I'd leave it to next year,  students unlikely to be back in university till Jan 21.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Taylor on June 17, 2020, 07:58:31 AM
The only thing I can see on higher rate tax payers is the tax on profits of selling your house? (I couldnít work out if it was second home only but presumably most who makes profits on a first home it will just be put back into the other house anyway so wonít be profit?)  Also it would presumably only kick in if you had no mortgage?

*disclaimer I donít know very much on tax of these things but was just interested on the higher rate tax thing

I had thought you would have to pay a higher tax rate when you sell it on as it isnt your primary residence?
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: TabClear on June 17, 2020, 08:04:10 AM
The only thing I can see on higher rate tax payers is the tax on profits of selling your house? (I couldnít work out if it was second home only but presumably most who makes profits on a first home it will just be put back into the other house anyway so wonít be profit?)  Also it would presumably only kick in if you had no mortgage?

*disclaimer I donít know very much on tax of these things but was just interested on the higher rate tax thing

I had thought you would have to pay a higher tax rate when you sell it on as it isnt your primary residence?

I know the law is a lot less favourable now in terms of interest deductibility. You used to be able to deduct all mortgage interest against taxable profits, thats no longer the case.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on June 17, 2020, 09:44:30 AM
The only thing I can see on higher rate tax payers is the tax on profits of selling your house? (I couldnít work out if it was second home only but presumably most who makes profits on a first home it will just be put back into the other house anyway so wonít be profit?)  Also it would presumably only kick in if you had no mortgage?

*disclaimer I donít know very much on tax of these things but was just interested on the higher rate tax thing

I had thought you would have to pay a higher tax rate when you sell it on as it isnt your primary residence?

I know the law is a lot less favourable now in terms of interest deductibility. You used to be able to deduct all mortgage interest against taxable profits, thats no longer the case.

In the North you'd be subject to CGT when you go to sell a property that isn't your primary residence. But you can mitigate this to a certain extent. A good accountant will advise you.

I don't know what the higher tax is about. Because this isn't your primary residence and you are earning income on it you have to pay tax on that income. That all gets included in your overall income declared in your tax return. You might find the rental income pushes you into the higher earners tax band. That is what you need to watch for. It is not that you have to pay any specific higher tax because of the house isn't your primary residence.

Once you also add in the fact that mortgage interest relief was ditched in April this year it means you now can't write that off as tax deductible. This alone is pushing many landlords into the higher tax bracket. All explained here better than I can:

https://www.which.co.uk/money/tax/income-tax/tax-on-property-and-rental-income/buy-to-let-mortgage-tax-relief-changes-explained-atnsv0j6j782


Many landlords with one property are getting out of it as an investment because in a lot of cases the return is just not worth it any more. You'd need to be in it for the long haul and that introduces other costs. The longer you have a property the more likelihood you'll have some major maintenance to do at some point. If your rent is just about covering the mortgage and a few ongoing regular costs then you will be digging into your own pocket to pay for that.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Rois on June 17, 2020, 09:53:05 AM

In the North you'd be subject to CGT when you go to sell a property that isn't your primary residence. But you can mitigate this to a certain extent. A good accountant will advise you.

Yeah I think that it is the additional CGT payable on the way out by higher rate tax payers (28% compared with 18% for basic tax rate payers for property gains) - I wasn't aware of it as hadn't been an issue for me.

Additional stamp duty on the way in for anyone who owns a property already can cost a bit, obviously depending on the value of the house. 
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Maroon Manc on June 17, 2020, 09:56:31 AM
Explained below


https://www.which.co.uk/money/tax/income-tax/tax-on-property-and-rental-income/buy-to-let-mortgage-tax-relief-changes-explained-atnsv0j6j782#:~:text=Landlord%20mortgage%20interest%20tax%20relief%20in%202020%2D21,of%20your%20mortgage%20interest%20payments.

As of April 2020, you are no longer able to deduct any of your mortgage expenses from rental income to reduce your tax bill. Instead, you'll receive a tax-credit, based on 20% of your mortgage interest payments. This is less generous for higher-rate taxpayers, who effectively received 40% tax relief on mortgage payments under the old rules. The new system is being phased in over several years. For the 2019-20 tax year, you could deduct one quarter of your rental income, while three quarters of your mortgage interest payments received the tax credit. For previous years:  In the 2017-18 tax year, you could claim 75% of your mortgage tax relief In the 2018-19 tax year, you could claim 50% of your mortgage tax relief The table below shows how this will impact on a higher-rate taxpaying landlord receiving £950 rent a month and paying £600 towards their mortgage. 
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: trailer on June 17, 2020, 10:17:29 AM
The only thing I can see on higher rate tax payers is the tax on profits of selling your house? (I couldnít work out if it was second home only but presumably most who makes profits on a first home it will just be put back into the other house anyway so wonít be profit?)  Also it would presumably only kick in if you had no mortgage?

*disclaimer I donít know very much on tax of these things but was just interested on the higher rate tax thing

I had thought you would have to pay a higher tax rate when you sell it on as it isnt your primary residence?

I know the law is a lot less favourable now in terms of interest deductibility. You used to be able to deduct all mortgage interest against taxable profits, thats no longer the case.

In the North you'd be subject to CGT when you go to sell a property that isn't your primary residence. But you can mitigate this to a certain extent. A good accountant will advise you.

I don't know what the higher tax is about. Because this isn't your primary residence and you are earning income on it you have to pay tax on that income. That all gets included in your overall income declared in your tax return. You might find the rental income pushes you into the higher earners tax band. That is what you need to watch for. It is not that you have to pay any specific higher tax because of the house isn't your primary residence.

Once you also add in the fact that mortgage interest relief was ditched in April this year it means you now can't write that off as tax deductible. This alone is pushing many landlords into the higher tax bracket. All explained here better than I can:

https://www.which.co.uk/money/tax/income-tax/tax-on-property-and-rental-income/buy-to-let-mortgage-tax-relief-changes-explained-atnsv0j6j782


Many landlords with one property are getting out of it as an investment because in a lot of cases the return is just not worth it any more. You'd need to be in it for the long haul and that introduces other costs. The longer you have a property the more likelihood you'll have some major maintenance to do at some point. If your rent is just about covering the mortgage and a few ongoing regular costs then you will be digging into your own pocket to pay for that.

But you still have the asset that certainly over a long period it "should" appreciate. Buying a rental property to earn money off in the short term isn't a good idea. But certainly in the medium to long term (and yes you'll have to maintain it), it should be a pretty solid bet.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Taylor on June 17, 2020, 10:31:35 AM
The only thing I can see on higher rate tax payers is the tax on profits of selling your house? (I couldnít work out if it was second home only but presumably most who makes profits on a first home it will just be put back into the other house anyway so wonít be profit?)  Also it would presumably only kick in if you had no mortgage?

*disclaimer I donít know very much on tax of these things but was just interested on the higher rate tax thing

I had thought you would have to pay a higher tax rate when you sell it on as it isnt your primary residence?

I know the law is a lot less favourable now in terms of interest deductibility. You used to be able to deduct all mortgage interest against taxable profits, thats no longer the case.

In the North you'd be subject to CGT when you go to sell a property that isn't your primary residence. But you can mitigate this to a certain extent. A good accountant will advise you.

I don't know what the higher tax is about. Because this isn't your primary residence and you are earning income on it you have to pay tax on that income. That all gets included in your overall income declared in your tax return. You might find the rental income pushes you into the higher earners tax band. That is what you need to watch for. It is not that you have to pay any specific higher tax because of the house isn't your primary residence.

Once you also add in the fact that mortgage interest relief was ditched in April this year it means you now can't write that off as tax deductible. This alone is pushing many landlords into the higher tax bracket. All explained here better than I can:

https://www.which.co.uk/money/tax/income-tax/tax-on-property-and-rental-income/buy-to-let-mortgage-tax-relief-changes-explained-atnsv0j6j782


Many landlords with one property are getting out of it as an investment because in a lot of cases the return is just not worth it any more. You'd need to be in it for the long haul and that introduces other costs. The longer you have a property the more likelihood you'll have some major maintenance to do at some point. If your rent is just about covering the mortgage and a few ongoing regular costs then you will be digging into your own pocket to pay for that.

But you still have the asset that certainly over a long period it "should" appreciate. Buying a rental property to earn money off in the short term isn't a good idea. But certainly in the medium to long term (and yes you'll have to maintain it), it should be a pretty solid bet.

But then you are hit with the tax when you go to sell it trailer.

Depending on the appreciation value would it really be worth it?
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on June 17, 2020, 10:39:39 AM
The only thing I can see on higher rate tax payers is the tax on profits of selling your house? (I couldnít work out if it was second home only but presumably most who makes profits on a first home it will just be put back into the other house anyway so wonít be profit?)  Also it would presumably only kick in if you had no mortgage?

*disclaimer I donít know very much on tax of these things but was just interested on the higher rate tax thing

I had thought you would have to pay a higher tax rate when you sell it on as it isnt your primary residence?

I know the law is a lot less favourable now in terms of interest deductibility. You used to be able to deduct all mortgage interest against taxable profits, thats no longer the case.

In the North you'd be subject to CGT when you go to sell a property that isn't your primary residence. But you can mitigate this to a certain extent. A good accountant will advise you.

I don't know what the higher tax is about. Because this isn't your primary residence and you are earning income on it you have to pay tax on that income. That all gets included in your overall income declared in your tax return. You might find the rental income pushes you into the higher earners tax band. That is what you need to watch for. It is not that you have to pay any specific higher tax because of the house isn't your primary residence.

Once you also add in the fact that mortgage interest relief was ditched in April this year it means you now can't write that off as tax deductible. This alone is pushing many landlords into the higher tax bracket. All explained here better than I can:

https://www.which.co.uk/money/tax/income-tax/tax-on-property-and-rental-income/buy-to-let-mortgage-tax-relief-changes-explained-atnsv0j6j782


Many landlords with one property are getting out of it as an investment because in a lot of cases the return is just not worth it any more. You'd need to be in it for the long haul and that introduces other costs. The longer you have a property the more likelihood you'll have some major maintenance to do at some point. If your rent is just about covering the mortgage and a few ongoing regular costs then you will be digging into your own pocket to pay for that.

But you still have the asset that certainly over a long period it "should" appreciate. Buying a rental property to earn money off in the short term isn't a good idea. But certainly in the medium to long term (and yes you'll have to maintain it), it should be a pretty solid bet.

I'm not saying that it is right or wrong. It obviously depends on each individuals circumstances. I'm just pointing out things to consider before anyone jumps into a BTL. Everyone should do their homework which I hope they would do anyway.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 17, 2020, 11:01:29 AM
The only thing I can see on higher rate tax payers is the tax on profits of selling your house? (I couldnít work out if it was second home only but presumably most who makes profits on a first home it will just be put back into the other house anyway so wonít be profit?)  Also it would presumably only kick in if you had no mortgage?

*disclaimer I donít know very much on tax of these things but was just interested on the higher rate tax thing

I had thought you would have to pay a higher tax rate when you sell it on as it isnt your primary residence?

I know the law is a lot less favourable now in terms of interest deductibility. You used to be able to deduct all mortgage interest against taxable profits, thats no longer the case.

In the North you'd be subject to CGT when you go to sell a property that isn't your primary residence. But you can mitigate this to a certain extent. A good accountant will advise you.

I don't know what the higher tax is about. Because this isn't your primary residence and you are earning income on it you have to pay tax on that income. That all gets included in your overall income declared in your tax return. You might find the rental income pushes you into the higher earners tax band. That is what you need to watch for. It is not that you have to pay any specific higher tax because of the house isn't your primary residence.

Once you also add in the fact that mortgage interest relief was ditched in April this year it means you now can't write that off as tax deductible. This alone is pushing many landlords into the higher tax bracket. All explained here better than I can:

https://www.which.co.uk/money/tax/income-tax/tax-on-property-and-rental-income/buy-to-let-mortgage-tax-relief-changes-explained-atnsv0j6j782


Many landlords with one property are getting out of it as an investment because in a lot of cases the return is just not worth it any more. You'd need to be in it for the long haul and that introduces other costs. The longer you have a property the more likelihood you'll have some major maintenance to do at some point. If your rent is just about covering the mortgage and a few ongoing regular costs then you will be digging into your own pocket to pay for that.

But you still have the asset that certainly over a long period it "should" appreciate. Buying a rental property to earn money off in the short term isn't a good idea. But certainly in the medium to long term (and yes you'll have to maintain it), it should be a pretty solid bet.

But then you are hit with the tax when you go to sell it trailer.

Depending on the appreciation value would it really be worth it?

It needs to be a long term investment (Unless you hit lucky with serious rise in house prices). But if your covering your mortgage with the rent over a 15-20 year and only out the cost of regular maintenance then you'll should still be quids in at the end with the asset. You won't be cash rich during the time (especially not at the start) but remember as the mortgage comes down, your rent will start to show profits as mortgage repayments decrease and you should be able to cover maintenance costs as well. But think you need to have a reasonable deposit or else your really at risk of increased interest rates.
 
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Maroon Manc on June 17, 2020, 12:18:28 PM
Timing is very important whether its long term or not. I'm been involved in property for a long time and seen what happened during the last recession,

You could end up buying at the top of the market and in 5 years time when you're mortgage deal comes to an end you'd to find more money to put into the property as the value has fallen. I bought at the top of the market last time and was very heavily into negative equity just 3 years later. Took most of the properties 7 or 8 years to get back to what I'd paid for them in terms of value from original purchase price and this was in a big city. If I'd opted for a fixed period mortgage I'd have lost the lot, I gambled on linking most of those mortgages to base rate.

Barriers to entry are making it more difficult with the additional stamp duty being another. Yes if you plan on holding the property for 20 years you should be ok but we'd all rather pay 10-20% less for something.



Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: trailer on June 17, 2020, 12:37:47 PM
The only thing I can see on higher rate tax payers is the tax on profits of selling your house? (I couldnít work out if it was second home only but presumably most who makes profits on a first home it will just be put back into the other house anyway so wonít be profit?)  Also it would presumably only kick in if you had no mortgage?

*disclaimer I donít know very much on tax of these things but was just interested on the higher rate tax thing

I had thought you would have to pay a higher tax rate when you sell it on as it isnt your primary residence?

I know the law is a lot less favourable now in terms of interest deductibility. You used to be able to deduct all mortgage interest against taxable profits, thats no longer the case.

In the North you'd be subject to CGT when you go to sell a property that isn't your primary residence. But you can mitigate this to a certain extent. A good accountant will advise you.

I don't know what the higher tax is about. Because this isn't your primary residence and you are earning income on it you have to pay tax on that income. That all gets included in your overall income declared in your tax return. You might find the rental income pushes you into the higher earners tax band. That is what you need to watch for. It is not that you have to pay any specific higher tax because of the house isn't your primary residence.

Once you also add in the fact that mortgage interest relief was ditched in April this year it means you now can't write that off as tax deductible. This alone is pushing many landlords into the higher tax bracket. All explained here better than I can:

https://www.which.co.uk/money/tax/income-tax/tax-on-property-and-rental-income/buy-to-let-mortgage-tax-relief-changes-explained-atnsv0j6j782


Many landlords with one property are getting out of it as an investment because in a lot of cases the return is just not worth it any more. You'd need to be in it for the long haul and that introduces other costs. The longer you have a property the more likelihood you'll have some major maintenance to do at some point. If your rent is just about covering the mortgage and a few ongoing regular costs then you will be digging into your own pocket to pay for that.

But you still have the asset that certainly over a long period it "should" appreciate. Buying a rental property to earn money off in the short term isn't a good idea. But certainly in the medium to long term (and yes you'll have to maintain it), it should be a pretty solid bet.

But then you are hit with the tax when you go to sell it trailer.

Depending on the appreciation value would it really be worth it?

Well if someone else is working to pay your mortgage it should be worth it. No matter what the CGT is. You have an asset worth a couple of hundred thousand that you own outright. There's costs and there's risks but it's a no brainer. I have a few and I'd like to think in 10 -15 years I'll have no mortgage on any of them and be able to sell, pay the tax and still have a tidy lump sum. Well that's the plan anyway. 
The key is good tenants. Even if you're not getting top money a good reliable tenant who pays the rent and gives no hassle is worth taking £50 a month less off than some arsehole who is never on time or always short. I have families in all of mine. Touch wood never give a bit of bother.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: TabClear on June 17, 2020, 12:49:21 PM
Timing is very important whether its long term or not. I'm been involved in property for a long time and seen what happened during the last recession.

You could end up buying at the top of the market and in 5 years time when you're mortgage deal comes to an end you'd to find more money to put into the property as the value has fallen. I bought at the top of the market last time and was very heavily into negative equity just 3 years later. Took most of the properties 7 or 8 years to get back to what I'd paid for them in terms of value from orginal purchase price and this was in a big city. If I'd opted for a fixed period mortgage I'd have lost the lot, I gambled on linking most of those mortgages to base rate.

Barriers to entry are making it more difficult with the additional stamp duty being another. Yes if you plan on holding the property for 20 years you should be ok but we'd all rather pay 10-20% less for something.

You need to decide what kind of a tennat you want as as well as that can ipmact on returns. You can go for the high churn type tenant such as students who will typically get you higher rents but also higher costs whether it be wear and tear or the knowledge you have to get new tenants every year. Alternatively you can go for the more longterm option such as family etc who you will probably get less rent from but who are more likely to take care of the home (scribbling on walls aside!) and stay for a few years. Even with good tenants you are likely to have to do some level of redecorating when they move out. Also there is the hassle of reletting (and cost if you use an agent), potential dead months between tenancies etc.

Personally i prefer to take a lower rent with hopefully less hassle from longterm tenants. Other people who elect to do work themselves will go for the higher income model so it all depends on personal preferences.

Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 17, 2020, 01:27:32 PM
Well if someone else is working to pay your mortgage it should be worth it. No matter what the CGT is. You have an asset worth a couple of hundred thousand that you own outright. There's costs and there's risks but it's a no brainer. I have a few and I'd like to think in 10 -15 years I'll have no mortgage on any of them and be able to sell, pay the tax and still have a tidy lump sum. Well that's the plan anyway. 
The key is good tenants. Even if you're not getting top money a good reliable tenant who pays the rent and gives no hassle is worth taking £50 a month less off than some arsehole who is never on time or always short. I have families in all of mine. Touch wood never give a bit of bother.

Or down the line the monthly income is a great pension source.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Maroon Manc on June 18, 2020, 04:24:16 PM
The more information I hear on the subject the more I'm convinced house prices will decrease. There's too many people living beyond their means whether their tenants or homeowners and some of them are going to lose their jobs

A lot of people in Manchester especially those under 40 have really stretched themselves to get on the housing ladder, then there's the help to buy schemes where first time buyers are relying on the prices to increase so they can remortgage and pay of the governments 20%. Young couples mortgage up to the hilt with little plan in place for when kids comes along with the added childcare costs.

Some of my mates situations are more than concerning and thats with couples who's jobs are secure, dare no think what will happen should one of them lose their job. One accountant tells me he's got a lot of clients in trouble, huge mortgages/car loans/car leasing, businesses that have run out of cash and with no cash to inject. That has to be a familiar theme across the country.

Then there's the additional deaths that have occurred this year which means more properties coming to the market over the next 6-9 months than would normally.









Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 18, 2020, 07:50:57 PM
The more information I hear on the subject the more I'm convinced house prices will decrease. There's too many people living beyond their means whether their tenants or homeowners and some of them are going to lose their jobs

A lot of people in Manchester especially those under 40 have really stretched themselves to get on the housing ladder, then there's the help to buy schemes where first time buyers are relying on the prices to increase so they can remortgage and pay of the governments 20%. Young couples mortgage up to the hilt with little plan in place for when kids comes along with the added childcare costs.

Some of my mates situations are more than concerning and thats with couples who's jobs are secure, dare no think what will happen should one of them lose their job. One accountant tells me he's got a lot of clients in trouble, huge mortgages/car loans/car leasing, businesses that have run out of cash and with no cash to inject. That has to be a familiar theme across the country.

Then there's the additional deaths that have occurred this year which means more properties coming to the market over the next 6-9 months than would normally.
Watched the film the other week, The big short, the problem that got into the situation then, had started again back in 2015, and access to getting homes has become a lot easier, the perfect storm seems to be brewing at the minute.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: screenexile on June 18, 2020, 07:54:17 PM
The more information I hear on the subject the more I'm convinced house prices will decrease. There's too many people living beyond their means whether their tenants or homeowners and some of them are going to lose their jobs

A lot of people in Manchester especially those under 40 have really stretched themselves to get on the housing ladder, then there's the help to buy schemes where first time buyers are relying on the prices to increase so they can remortgage and pay of the governments 20%. Young couples mortgage up to the hilt with little plan in place for when kids comes along with the added childcare costs.

Some of my mates situations are more than concerning and thats with couples who's jobs are secure, dare no think what will happen should one of them lose their job. One accountant tells me he's got a lot of clients in trouble, huge mortgages/car loans/car leasing, businesses that have run out of cash and with no cash to inject. That has to be a familiar theme across the country.

Then there's the additional deaths that have occurred this year which means more properties coming to the market over the next 6-9 months than would normally.
Watched the film the other week, The big short, the problem that got into the situation then, had started again back in 2015, and access to getting homes has become a lot easier, the perfect storm seems to be brewing at the minute.

In terms of the housing market I donít think this recession will be as ridiculous as the last one. Sub Prime and the 100% plus mortgages were a huge contributor whereas banks have really tightened up affordability.

Yes there will probably be people who will lose their homes and less will be buying but I donít think it will be as bad as it was the last time.
House prices also hadnít really gotten back to 2008 levels at least where Iím from anyway maybe in the big cities.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 18, 2020, 08:29:45 PM
There was definitely a tightening by the banks after that in Regards to lending, I remember at the time asking for a car loan, two decent jobs and good income coming in but was a tight interview!

Now Iíve loads of banks offering credit cards and loans nearly on a monthly basis, only yesterday the Ulster bank phoned to ask me to increase my overdraft during the Covid crisis!

Havenít delved into the housing market yet but Iíd be saying itís not like 2010 when it was near impossible
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: redzone on June 18, 2020, 08:43:50 PM
If you are using an overdraft every month surely that would be a red flag to a mortgage lender would it not
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 18, 2020, 08:50:07 PM
If you are using an overdraft every month surely that would be a red flag to a mortgage lender would it not

They were offering it, I didnít say I was using it
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 18, 2020, 09:01:11 PM
I know of an apartment in Dublin that was bought for Ä515k back in 2005 (so a good bit before the peak), and at the start of this year, so before the coronavirus, it was valued at Ä375k.
It's unreal that it has never recovered since the massive falls, despite the long time period that has elapsed.

Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 18, 2020, 09:04:25 PM
I know of an apartment in Dublin that was bought for Ä515k back in 2005 (so a good bit before the peak), and at the start of this year, so before the coronavirus, it was valued at Ä375k.
It's unreal that it has never recovered since the massive falls, despite the long time period that has elapsed.

The Celtic tiger inflated a lot of prices in housing in Dublin at that time?
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 18, 2020, 09:06:22 PM
I know of an apartment in Dublin that was bought for Ä515k back in 2005 (so a good bit before the peak), and at the start of this year, so before the coronavirus, it was valued at Ä375k.
It's unreal that it has never recovered since the massive falls, despite the long time period that has elapsed.

The Celtic tiger inflated a lot of prices in housing in Dublin at that time?

For sure.  I was just surprised, so I must have forgotten just how totally stupidly high the prices must have gotten in Dublin during that time.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 18, 2020, 09:11:09 PM
I remember at a time in West Belfast housing was so cheap until the mid 90ís, then it started to get out of control, Iím 12 minutes from my old house on the Falls, there was a house that went for sale at a price I bought this one, similar time, the comparison is vast.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: redzone on June 18, 2020, 09:15:03 PM
If you are using an overdraft every month surely that would be a red flag to a mortgage lender would it not

They were offering it, I didnít say I was using it
The fact you have one at all should rule you out of getting a mortgage
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 18, 2020, 10:41:19 PM
If you are using an overdraft every month surely that would be a red flag to a mortgage lender would it not

They were offering it, I didnít say I was using it
The fact you have one at all should rule you out of getting a mortgage

Iíve had two houses and remortgage twice over the years, Ive always had an overdraft, you need to show you havenít been using your overdraft. But hey, maybe you know different
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Rois on June 18, 2020, 10:54:54 PM
If you are using an overdraft every month surely that would be a red flag to a mortgage lender would it not

They were offering it, I didnít say I was using it
The fact you have one at all should rule you out of getting a mortgage

Iíve had two houses and remortgage twice over the years, Ive always had an overdraft, you need to show you havenít been using your overdraft. But hey, maybe you know different
If you keep your current account to a minimum because you move a whack to savings every month, having an overdraft is perfectly reasonable if it is interest-free. In fact, you could argue that it is financially savvy (maybe not at the minute when savings rates are so low, but the principle stands).
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 18, 2020, 11:00:01 PM
If you are using an overdraft every month surely that would be a red flag to a mortgage lender would it not

They were offering it, I didnít say I was using it
The fact you have one at all should rule you out of getting a mortgage

Iíve had two houses and remortgage twice over the years, Ive always had an overdraft, you need to show you havenít been using your overdraft. But hey, maybe you know different
If you keep your current account to a minimum because you move a whack to savings every month, having an overdraft is perfectly reasonable if it is interest-free. In fact, you could argue that it is financially savvy (maybe not at the minute when savings rates are so low, but the principle stands).

Iíve never had issues with overdraft, £1000 overdraft Iíd have thought was standard? Maybe itís not I donít know in fairness.

I generally havenít taken on the finances in the house, if my wife dies or runs off on me I wouldnít have a clue!

As long as Iíve enough for wine and chocolate,  Iím easy!
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: redzone on June 18, 2020, 11:04:59 PM
If you are using an overdraft every month surely that would be a red flag to a mortgage lender would it not

They were offering it, I didnít say I was using it
The fact you have one at all should rule you out of getting a mortgage

Iíve had two houses and remortgage twice over the years, Ive always had an overdraft, you need to show you havenít been using your overdraft. But hey, maybe you know different
If you keep your current account to a minimum because you move a whack to savings every month, having an overdraft is perfectly reasonable if it is interest-free. In fact, you could argue that it is financially savvy (maybe not at the minute when savings rates are so low, but the principle stands).

Iíve never had issues with overdraft, £1000 overdraft Iíd have thought was standard? Maybe itís not I donít know in fairness.

I generally havenít taken on the finances in the house, if my wife dies or runs off on me I wouldnít have a clue!

As long as Iíve enough for wine and chocolate,  Iím easy!
I'm not surprised she deals with the finances.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 18, 2020, 11:09:52 PM
If you are using an overdraft every month surely that would be a red flag to a mortgage lender would it not

They were offering it, I didnít say I was using it
The fact you have one at all should rule you out of getting a mortgage

Iíve had two houses and remortgage twice over the years, Ive always had an overdraft, you need to show you havenít been using your overdraft. But hey, maybe you know different
If you keep your current account to a minimum because you move a whack to savings every month, having an overdraft is perfectly reasonable if it is interest-free. In fact, you could argue that it is financially savvy (maybe not at the minute when savings rates are so low, but the principle stands).

Iíve never had issues with overdraft, £1000 overdraft Iíd have thought was standard? Maybe itís not I donít know in fairness.

I generally havenít taken on the finances in the house, if my wife dies or runs off on me I wouldnít have a clue!

As long as Iíve enough for wine and chocolate,  Iím easy!
I'm not surprised she deals with the finances.

So can you get mortgages with an overdraft? Cause you seem to be on the ball on this?
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on June 18, 2020, 11:52:45 PM
You definitely can get a mortgage with an overdraft. Most people will have one.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: redzone on June 19, 2020, 06:46:24 AM
If you are using an overdraft every month surely that would be a red flag to a mortgage lender would it not

They were offering it, I didnít say I was using it
The fact you have one at all should rule you out of getting a mortgage

Iíve had two houses and remortgage twice over the years, Ive always had an overdraft, you need to show you havenít been using your overdraft. But hey, maybe you know different
If you keep your current account to a minimum because you move a whack to savings every month, having an overdraft is perfectly reasonable if it is interest-free. In fact, you could argue that it is financially savvy (maybe not at the minute when savings rates are so low, but the principle stands).

Iíve never had issues with overdraft, £1000 overdraft Iíd have thought was standard? Maybe itís not I donít know in fairness.

I generally havenít taken on the finances in the house, if my wife dies or runs off on me I wouldnít have a clue!

As long as Iíve enough for wine and chocolate,  Iím easy!
I'm not surprised she deals with the finances.

So can you get mortgages with an overdraft? Cause you seem to be on the ball on this?
I'm sure you can but that's the systems fault. I'm saying you shouldnt get one.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: imtommygunn on June 19, 2020, 08:27:44 AM
You shouldnít get one if you require an overdraft but if you have one available to you thatís a different matter entirely.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: screenexile on June 19, 2020, 09:36:05 AM
Yeah it totally depends a lot of people will have an overdraft for the odd time they do overspend in a month like Christmas or holidays or something like that. . . it shouldn't unduly affect you unless you're at the limit of it each month or slightly going over it.

A big thing that a lot of people don't seem to realise is that no credit is worse than bad credit!

Having an overdraft that you've paid back is better in the long run than having no overdraft or other borrowings at all.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 19, 2020, 09:37:55 AM
Having an overdraft shouldn't and doesn't prevent you getting a mortgage. It's only one aspect. If you are saving monthly and have a saving plan but dip into a mortgage for a month or two now and again due to cash flow for something (car repairs, holiday etc) rather than interfering with your savings it's no big concern. Now if you were living in your overdraft monthly that's a whole other thing.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 19, 2020, 09:51:32 AM
You shouldnít get one if you require an overdraft but if you have one available to you thatís a different matter entirely.

There are lots of reasons not to get a mortgage and had those measures been in place during the mid 90ís we wouldnít have been in the state we ended up in 2008!!
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: Maroon Manc on June 19, 2020, 04:57:11 PM
The more information I hear on the subject the more I'm convinced house prices will decrease. There's too many people living beyond their means whether their tenants or homeowners and some of them are going to lose their jobs

A lot of people in Manchester especially those under 40 have really stretched themselves to get on the housing ladder, then there's the help to buy schemes where first time buyers are relying on the prices to increase so they can remortgage and pay of the governments 20%. Young couples mortgage up to the hilt with little plan in place for when kids comes along with the added childcare costs.

Some of my mates situations are more than concerning and thats with couples who's jobs are secure, dare no think what will happen should one of them lose their job. One accountant tells me he's got a lot of clients in trouble, huge mortgages/car loans/car leasing, businesses that have run out of cash and with no cash to inject. That has to be a familiar theme across the country.

Then there's the additional deaths that have occurred this year which means more properties coming to the market over the next 6-9 months than would normally.
Watched the film the other week, The big short, the problem that got into the situation then, had started again back in 2015, and access to getting homes has become a lot easier, the perfect storm seems to be brewing at the minute.

In terms of the housing market I donít think this recession will be as ridiculous as the last one. Sub Prime and the 100% plus mortgages were a huge contributor whereas banks have really tightened up affordability.

Yes there will probably be people who will lose their homes and less will be buying but I donít think it will be as bad as it was the last time.
House prices also hadnít really gotten back to 2008 levels at least where Iím from anyway maybe in the big cities.

I agree and I'd be very surprised if it was as bad as the last recession but its hard to make a case for growth in house prices. There's not been much growth in the last 2 or 3 years so given the current environment I'm expecting a drop over the next 12 months.
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: balladmaker on September 14, 2020, 07:22:08 PM
Mortgage deal ending soon .... no difference in cost between variable and fixed rate mortgages .... anyone any thoughts on fixing vs variable?  As we're looking into what could be a prolonged recession, I'd assume interest rates won't be going up any time soon.  With interest rates at rock bottom, don't see any room for further decrease into negative territory. Six of one, half a dozen of another is my current view, thoughts?
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: screenexile on September 14, 2020, 09:24:25 PM
Mortgage deal ending soon .... no difference in cost between variable and fixed rate mortgages .... anyone any thoughts on fixing vs variable?  As we're looking into what could be a prolonged recession, I'd assume interest rates won't be going up any time soon.  With interest rates at rock bottom, don't see any room for further decrease into negative territory. Six of one, half a dozen of another is my current view, thoughts?

I personally fix it so I know what Iím paying over the next 5 years.

If thereís a fairly decent recovery interest rested could go up in the next 2-3 years
Title: Re: Buying a house
Post by: nrico2006 on September 15, 2020, 09:11:47 AM
The more information I hear on the subject the more I'm convinced house prices will decrease. There's too many people living beyond their means whether their tenants or homeowners and some of them are going to lose their jobs

A lot of people in Manchester especially those under 40 have really stretched themselves to get on the housing ladder, then there's the help to buy schemes where first time buyers are relying on the prices to increase so they can remortgage and pay of the governments 20%. Young couples mortgage up to the hilt with little plan in place for when kids comes along with the added childcare costs.

Some of my mates situations are more than concerning and thats with couples who's jobs are secure, dare no think what will happen should one of them lose their job. One accountant tells me he's got a lot of clients in trouble, huge mortgages/car loans/car leasing, businesses that have run out of cash and with no cash to inject. That has to be a familiar theme across the country.

Then there's the additional deaths that have occurred this year which means more properties coming to the market over the next 6-9 months than would normally.
Watched the film the other week, The big short, the problem that got into the situation then, had started again back in 2015, and access to getting homes has become a lot easier, the perfect storm seems to be brewing at the minute.

In terms of the housing market I donít think this recession will be as ridiculous as the last one. Sub Prime and the 100% plus mortgages were a huge contributor whereas banks have really tightened up affordability.

Yes there will probably be people who will lose their homes and less will be buying but I donít think it will be as bad as it was the last time.
House prices also hadnít really gotten back to 2008 levels at least where Iím from anyway maybe in the big cities.

I agree and I'd be very surprised if it was as bad as the last recession but its hard to make a case for growth in house prices. There's not been much growth in the last 2 or 3 years so given the current environment I'm expecting a drop over the next 12 months.

House prices have been on the up as of late, wonder how long this will last?