Just want to know if there was a green coloured poppy to represent the Irish men and women who died in the world wars, would more nationalists were them. I know its been talked about before but it is a disgrace the way the prods have taken this away form our side remembering the fallen.
If you want to wear one wear one, i think a green poppy would be a bit ridiculous. Its not St Paddys day, everything does not have to be green.
Exactly what minder said. Why would a poppy be green?
How have 'the prods' taken it away from 'our side'? Buy one if you want - you don't have to show protestant ID.
Quote from: Hereiam on November 01, 2008, 11:09:25 PM
Just want to know if there was a green coloured poppy to represent the Irish men and women who died in the world wars, would more nationalists were them. I know its been talked about before but it is a disgrace the way the prods have taken this away form our side remembering the fallen.
Why are they on sale, worn - weeks before the "official" date? Why do the unionist need to piss everywhere and mark their territory - pathetic, pathetic, pathetic!!! Good to keep the taigs in their place. :o ::)
Quote from: Handy on November 01, 2008, 11:46:14 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on November 01, 2008, 11:09:25 PM
Just want to know if there was a green coloured poppy to represent the Irish men and women who died in the world wars, would more nationalists were them. I know its been talked about before but it is a disgrace the way the prods have taken this away form our side remembering the fallen.
Why are they on sale, worn - weeks before the "official" date? Why do the unionist need to piss everywhere and mark their territory - pathetic, pathetic, pathetic!!! Good to keep the taigs in their place. :o ::)
I'd reckon they make more money selling them over the course of a few weeks than on Remembrance Day... There'd be some queue for them too if they only sold them on the official date! Talk sense man.
We have the same old debate every year. Someone will mention the Easter Lilly next, and we'll be off into a big row again. Let folks wear, some do it as a badge of identification, others do it to remember the fallen. It's up to them.
On another note, it's strange but one of the most poignant uses of the poppy was in the last episode of Blackadder Goes Forth when they go over the top.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 01, 2008, 11:55:02 PM
Quote from: Handy on November 01, 2008, 11:46:14 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on November 01, 2008, 11:09:25 PM
Just want to know if there was a green coloured poppy to represent the Irish men and women who died in the world wars, would more nationalists were them. I know its been talked about before but it is a disgrace the way the prods have taken this away form our side remembering the fallen.
Why are they on sale, worn - weeks before the "official" date? Why do the unionist need to piss everywhere and mark their territory - pathetic, pathetic, pathetic!!! Good to keep the taigs in their place. :o ::)
I'd reckon they make more money selling them over the course of a few weeks than on Remembrance Day... There'd be some queue for them too if they only sold them on the official date! Talk sense man.
Ah right so - got it - noel thompson wears the shamrock 3 weeks before paddy's day - f**k sake take a redder!
The unionists in Northern ireland use it as some sort of marker, a badge of identity.
The one thing I can't stand is turning on the tv and everyone is wearing them for two weeks before the day, there is clearly some sort of policy that everyone must wear one if they're going to be on the tv whether it be presenters or guests and that is just wrong not to mention ironic!
Did someone on the telly not refuse to wear one a few years back?
chill out POG, had you been brought up a prod you'd be wearing it to bed. funny thing how what side of the street we are brought up on determinds our views.
Just you wear your shamrock for the whole month of March next year. That'll fix the feckers.
As said above some wear the poppy as a manifestation of their prod identity, others wear it to remember the fallen (including soldiers killed in Ireland) and others wear it to remember the fallen only from The Great War.
I wouldn't wear a poppy, but I have no issue with people wearing them to remember anyone who fought in the trenches against Jerry.
Pog why the fixation with NI presenters? All the presenters and guests on the main national programmes wear them too for weeks up to the event. Are they part of the unionist conspiracy too annoy you and Handy?
Quote from: milltown row on November 02, 2008, 12:18:01 AM
chill out POG, had you been brought up a prod you'd be wearing it to bed. funny thing how what side of the street we are brought up on determinds our views.
Maybe but I wouldnt wear an easter lilly or shamrocks for two weeks.
tony
Quote
Pog why the fixation with NI presenters? All the presenters and guests on the main national programmes wear them too for weeks up to the event. Are they part of the unionist conspiracy too annoy you and Handy?
I was actually talking about the national presenters, although I've no issue with the english wearing a poppy (or anyone from the north if it's for a genuine reason) it just annoys me that there seems to be a policy that you must wear one.
Apologies sir. Aye I have to agree with you on the "policy" as it looks weird when guests from the States turn up on shows and are sitting wearing a poppy.
Donna Trainor refused to wear it a few years ago. Shamrock too.
it only looks weird from 'our' point of view no point debating it.
i've worked in Harland and wolff in the 80's!!!!! you get used to flags and poppys and flags and marching and poppys and badges and............
Is the objection though that it has been politicised by the unionists, which there is no arguing about, or that it represents the British armed forces which also includes their involvement here?
The thing that takes me to the fair is that the Unionists are always slabbering about the poppy being for everyone, but if Nationalists started wearing them they'd go nuts.
what really grinds unionist is the fact that when in england or elsewhere they are paddy's. so being super Loyal is all they got. i spend less time watching the news now, i'ts boring, i've a mortgage to pay and kids to bring up. whether someone wheres a poppy for two f**king weeks will not make a difference to my bills.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 02, 2008, 12:33:53 AM
Is the objection though that it has been politicised by the unionists, which there is no arguing about, or that it represents the British armed forces which also includes their involvement here?
The same way as some have politicised the Irish language and just about everything else in NI. People need to move on. If you're (not you in particular TB) offended by a poppy, then you must have serious issues.
I was flicking through the letter pages on ITV a few days. Girl Aloud were being interviewed on the telly last week or the beginning of the week. They all had their Poppies on, except Nadine. Apparently she didn't want to wear it. Some bloke from Carrickfergus was writing, complaining that she should have to show her Britishness.
I seen our man on x-factor had his on. He won't be gettin my vote now. :(
I'd like to think of myself as being liberal, but I seen David O'Leary wearing one on Sky a few years ago and immediately turned against him. But having thought about it, he has lived in England for 20+ years, of course he is going to become a certain amount normalised to their culture. By the same token, the scottish planters have been here for hundres of years and never adapted to ours.
:D Very good HS
Fair play to Nadine coyle for standing up for herself and her nationality. will the other Girls aloud members all wear shamrocks on Paddy's day?
Quote from: Hereiam on November 02, 2008, 01:32:49 AM
I seen our man on x-factor had his on. He won't be gettin my vote now. :(
I hope you're joking. He's a 15 yr old boy in a popularity contest, I'm sure he doesn't want to be drawn into a political row in the pages of The Sun just to please a few hardliners over here.
I do agree it's strange how they insist everyone on the telly has one on but because of that it's a big deal if someone doesn't. I live in Bournemouth and from watching English tv I sort of expected that everyone else at work would be wearing a poppy at this time which might be awkward for me, but only around 5-10% actually do wear one.
Quote from: comethekingdom on November 02, 2008, 10:11:45 AM
Fair play to Nadine coyle for standing up for herself and her nationality. will the other Girls aloud members all wear shamrocks on Paddy's day?
Is the shamrock the Irish equivalent of the poppy? Anyway, i'm sure if Girls Aloud were in Ireland on March 17th they'd have no issue with wearing the poppy - why would they?
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 02, 2008, 11:13:08 AMAnyway, i'm sure if Girls Aloud were in Ireland on March 17th they'd have no issue with wearing the poppy - why would they?
They'd get some funny looks, all the same.
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 02, 2008, 11:13:08 AM
Quote from: comethekingdom on November 02, 2008, 10:11:45 AM
Fair play to Nadine coyle for standing up for herself and her nationality. will the other Girls aloud members all wear shamrocks on Paddy's day?
Is the shamrock the Irish equivalent of the poppy? Anyway, i'm sure if Girls Aloud were in Ireland on March 17th they'd have no issue with wearing the poppy - why would they?
im not sure what your point is here, i cant see them wearing the poppy in march.
Quote from: Rav67 on November 02, 2008, 10:13:26 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on November 02, 2008, 01:32:49 AM
I seen our man on x-factor had his on. He won't be gettin my vote now. :(
I do agree it's strange how they insist everyone on the telly has one on but because of that it's a big deal if someone doesn't. I live in Bournemouth and from watching English tv I sort of expected that everyone else at work would be wearing a poppy at this time which might be awkward for me, but only around 5-10% actually do wear one.
Walking around belfast yesterday, i would say 20-25% of people were wearing their poppy. Considering the unionist population over here would be max 60% it is clear that the unionist community in Northern ireland feel the need to show their support for the poppy much more than their english counterparts :-\
Thousands of fallen soldiers have been honoured at a cross-border commemoration service in County Louth.
Ex-service groups from both sides of the border paid tribute to the war dead at the only all-Ireland remembrance event on the island.
The Irish Ex-Service Men's Association and Whiteabbey British Legion branch laid wreaths bearing the Royal Crest and Tricolour in Drogheda.
The joint memorial service has been held for the past nine years.
Drogheda Mayor Frank Maher and Newtownabbey Mayor Victor Robinson represented their respective areas.
Ceremony
The event also included an inter-denominational religious ceremony recalling the service and sacrifice of thousands who joined the British forces to fight in the First World War.
Brian McCalden, spokesman for Whiteabbey Royal British Legion, said it had grown in size and importance over the past decade.
"It started off as a handful of people, but has attracted up to 200 in recent years," said Mr McCalden, who was one of organisers.
"Last year the Irish Ex-Service Men's Association had 12 people at it, and we expect the same this year.
"They remember their soldiers who were killed in all conflicts."
QuoteI live in Bournemouth and from watching English tv I sort of expected that everyone else at work would be wearing a poppy at this time which might be awkward for me, but only around 5-10% actually do wear one.
Quote
Walking around belfast yesterday, i would say 20-25% of people were wearing their poppy. Considering the unionist population over here would be max 60% it is clear that the unionist community in Northern ireland feel the need to show their support for the poppy much more than their english counterparts Undecided
That's interesting, I'm the same as Rav and I only noticed one boy at work wearing one during the week. Was through the town yesterday and don't remember seeing anyone with them, probably a few that I didn't take notice of but there can't have been that many. I'm going to take note today! There would be quite a few with them on the day but you don't have anything to worry about Rav as, in my experience, the English don't give a f**k if you wear one or not! The people I work with would probably find it more odd if I wore one!
Another example of the unionists in the North trying to be more English than the English. ::)
What's the story with the DUP wearing the "Designer" Poppy?
Where does the money from poppy sales go?
Jesus some of you lads are very easily offended . The poppy is a nice concept and like every symbol in the North some people will try to taint it .
Quote from: Puckoon on November 02, 2008, 12:38:49 PM
Where does the money from poppy sales go?
The UDA i believe
Quote from: Hardy on November 02, 2008, 11:16:30 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 02, 2008, 11:13:08 AMAnyway, i'm sure if Girls Aloud were in Ireland on March 17th they'd have no issue with wearing the poppy - why would they?
They'd get some funny looks, all the same.
Quote from: fred the red on November 02, 2008, 11:18:28 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 02, 2008, 11:13:08 AM
Quote from: comethekingdom on November 02, 2008, 10:11:45 AM
Fair play to Nadine coyle for standing up for herself and her nationality. will the other Girls aloud members all wear shamrocks on Paddy's day?
Is the shamrock the Irish equivalent of the poppy? Anyway, i'm sure if Girls Aloud were in Ireland on March 17th they'd have no issue with wearing the poppy - why would they?
im not sure what your point is here, i cant see them wearing the poppy in march.
Sorry - typo on my part! I meant that Girls Aloud would surely have no issue wearing the
shamrock if they were in Ireland on March 17th.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 02, 2008, 12:08:42 AM
The unionists in Northern ireland use it as some sort of marker, a badge of identity.
The one thing I can't stand is turning on the tv and everyone is wearing them for two weeks before the day, there is clearly some sort of policy that everyone must wear one if they're going to be on the tv whether it be presenters or guests and that is just wrong not to mention ironic!
The worst are the tossers who put the sticker on the car - i mean, wtf?? Maybe somebody should start a campaign "A poppy
is just for armistice" ;)
Wearing paper poppies is an expression of British nationalism and imperialism. It is unacceptable to wear such a thing in any country given what the British have been up to over the years, but it is entirely unacceptable to do so in Ireland as we have been at the receiving end of this militarism. That TV presenters and others do so is a sign of the continuing sectarian nature of these TV stations.
It has nothing to do with the shamrock, which has no military connotations. It has nothing to do with commemorating the First World war, there will be gathering of Belgians, French, Austrians, Czech, Slovene, Italians and so forth to commemorate the First World War and there won't be single poppy on anyone's lapel.
QuoteWearing paper poppies is an expression of British nationalism and imperialism. It is unacceptable to wear such a thing in any country given what the British have been up to over the years, but it is entirely unacceptable to do so in Ireland as we have been at the receiving end of this militarism.
Yeah but those wearign it in Ireland support that militarism i.e. the state sponsored killing.
QuoteYeah but those wearign it in Ireland support that militarism i.e. the state sponsored killing.
Exactly. But some would have you believe that it is to do with the First World War. It is like wearing a Nazi Swastika and saying that you admire their fight against Stalin, and that you are not bothered about the other stuff.
Quote from: armaghniac on November 02, 2008, 01:40:19 PM
Wearing paper poppies is an expression of British nationalism and imperialism. It is unacceptable to wear such a thing in any country given what the British have been up to over the years, but it is entirely unacceptable to do so in Ireland as we have been at the receiving end of this militarism. That TV presenters and others do so is a sign of the continuing sectarian nature of these TV stations.
It has nothing to do with the shamrock, which has no military connotations. It has nothing to do with commemorating the First World war, there will be gathering of Belgians, French, Austrians, Czech, Slovene, Italians and so forth to commemorate the First World War and there won't be single poppy on anyone's lapel.
So it's an elaborate ruse to annoy the papes in Ireland? You simply couldn't make up some of the stuff you read on here. Obviously someone does though!
Quote from: armaghniac on November 02, 2008, 01:40:19 PM
It has nothing to do with commemorating the First World war, there will be gathering of Belgians, French, Austrians, Czech, Slovene, Italians and so forth to commemorate the First World War and there won't be single poppy on anyone's lapel.
Could i not just be the way the British commemorate the First World War? Maybe those other nations have their own symbols for remembering the war. That doesn't necessarily invalidate the poppy as a symbol of commemoration, does it?
The origin of the poppy:
QuoteScarlet corn poppies (popaver rhoeas) grow naturally in conditions of disturbed earth throughout Western Europe. The destruction brought by the Napoleonic wars of the early 19th Century transformed bare land into fields of blood red poppies, growing around the bodies of the fallen soldiers.
In late 1914, the fields of Northern France and Flanders were once again ripped open as World War One raged through Europe's heart. Once the conflict was over the poppy was one of the only plants to grow on the otherwise barren battlefields.
I doubt there were too may Austrians, Czechs, Slovenians or Italians in the fields of northern France - i may be wrong.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 02, 2008, 12:33:53 AM
The thing that takes me to the fair is that the Unionists are always slabbering about the poppy being for everyone, but if Nationalists started wearing them they'd go nuts.
Really? Yoiur evidence for such a theory? This Unionist would be pleased, since it would be a sign that NI is possibly maturing sufficiently for individuals to behave according to their conscience, rather than according to what politicians/prelates/community spokespersons etc dictate.
On which point, I'd say
SF/IRA would go nuts if Nationalists started wearing Poppies... ::)
Quote from: fred the red on November 02, 2008, 11:18:28 AM
Walking around belfast yesterday, i would say 20-25% of people were wearing their poppy. Considering the unionist population over here would be max 60% it is clear that the unionist community in Northern ireland feel the need to show their support for the poppy much more than their english counterparts :-\
True enough, but "showing support for the poppy" should not automatically be conflated with fllaunting their Britishness, rubbing it in etc. There has always been a strong military tradition in NI*, more so than in other parts of the UK, so it is hardly unexpected that more people in NI should feel an affinity with the Poppy.
I've no doubt that many more people e.g. in garrison towns like Aldershot or Portsmouth etc wear the Poppy than e.g. in those parts of London where over 50% of the population was born outside the UK.
* - And in Ireland generally, prior to partition.
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 02, 2008, 03:03:03 PM
Quote from: fred the red on November 02, 2008, 11:18:28 AM
Walking around belfast yesterday, i would say 20-25% of people were wearing their poppy. Considering the unionist population over here would be max 60% it is clear that the unionist community in Northern ireland feel the need to show their support for the poppy much more than their english counterparts :-\
True enough, but "showing support for the poppy" should not automatically be conflated with fllaunting their Britishness, rubbing it in etc. There has always been a strong military tradition in NI*, more so than in other parts of the UK, so it is hardly unexpected that more people in NI should feel an affinity with the Poppy.
I've no doubt that many more people e.g. in garrison towns like Aldershot or Portsmouth etc wear the Poppy than e.g. in those parts of London where over 50% of the population was born outside the UK.
* - And in Ireland generally, prior to partition.
Eh, who mentioned London?
the original quote was referring to Bournemouth, a city where alot less than 50% of its population was born outside the UK. (probably simlilar to Belfast in fact).
What do people expect this young fella to do? he's trying to win this competition. I can't understand how some people can be so small minded
Quote from: Hereiam on November 02, 2008, 01:32:49 AM
I seen our man on x-factor had his on. He won't be gettin my vote now. :(
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/single-minded-eoghan-14028166.html
Brave teen defies dissident threats over contribution to charity record for ArmyX-factor star Eoghan Quigg last night defied sinister renegade republican threats by taking to the stage for the hit show. And Sunday Life today reveals the identity of the top dissident republican who has warned the Dungiven family could be in danger because of Eoghan's decision to perform on the new Help for Heroes single, Hero.
Our picture shows Republican Sinn Fein spokesman Richard Walsh who has called for a boycott of the single.
He once claimed that police tried to recruit him as an informer and is also a close associate of hardliner Ruairi O'Bradiagh. The single — produced to raise funds for British soldiers — is set to reach the No 1 spot today after selling more than 100,000 copies on the first day of its release.
But the release of the chart-topping track was overshadowed by web threats to the 16-year-old singer from diehard republicans.
One message read: "Lives at risk as X-Factor used to glorify Brit Army. This could put Dungiven hurler Eoghan Quigg in a tough position as he now has to sing for British troops."
Another poster also asked: "So will young Quigg be knee-capped when he gets back? This is not a very nice position to put Eoghan Quigg in." Speaking to the Sunday Life, Walsh — whose group is linked to the Continuity IRA — last night attempted to justify the anger directed at the singer.
The hardliner, who campaigns for Continuity IRA prisoners, said: "There's no doubt about it — there's a lot of anger in Dungiven and in the wider community about this.
"Eoghan is only a young fella, but I can understand why people are upset about his decision to appear on a song which honours the British war machine.
"I'm concerned this decision could be a problem for him and his family. I just wish his family would have been more responsible when allowing their son to participate in this song.
"Considering the town where he comes from and the fact people from Dungiven have suffered at the hands of the British Army, it is totally inappropriate for him to sing on this song.
"The X Factor bosses should also have done their home work and kept him out of the song. They may have put pressure on him, but he had every right to keep away from this project."
The 27-year-old Derry diehard has also chillingly warned that renegade violence is set to increase over the coming months, adding: "We can be satisfied that republican resistance to foreign occupation is on the rise.
"Hugh Orde may not miss any opportunity to label republicans as lunatics, but the reality is that only a lunatic would believe that republican resistance will cease once policing and justice have been devolved.
"The message from Lisnaskea, Roslea and Craigavon was that the British colonial police will never be welcome in our country.
"We must resist all attempts to bolster English rule in part of Ireland."
The teenager's dad Chris accused bigots of attempting to destroy his son's singing dream, added: "He's not a republican. We've lived through the Troubles but Eoghan was born in 1992 — he's far too young to know anything about this.
"He's in a singing competition, that's what's important. I'm annoyed there are still small-minded bigots here.
"Part of this is because he's a wee Catholic lad from Derry and some republicans are stirring it
up. I don't agree with Iraq, but that's nothing to do with it.
"This is for people who have lost limbs and lost their lives, whatever they were fighting for.
"They'll probably need a lot of help for the rest of their lives and that's fair enough. I'd a feeling there would be trouble over this. We don't want that. If the song is for the Army, so be it."
Worried X-Factor bosses also defended the young star's decision to appear in the single, adding: "Eoghan's political views played no part in his decision to join all the final acts in supporting the Help for Heroes campaign."
The threats were issued to the schoolboy in the same week that renegade republican godfathers vowed to cause "havoc" after today's controversial RIR homecoming parade.
Senior police chiefs were last night finalising security plans after it emerged they had spent over £400,000 in overtime during recent security operations against dissident republican activity throughout Ulster.
Cops signed up for over-time after PSNI Chief Constable Sir Hugh Orde was asked by MI5 to recruit more officers in the war against rival republican factions.
A senior security source also claimed MI5 were placing more emphasis on combating renegade republicans than muslim extremists.
Many of the officers will be on the frontline today in Belfast as tensions continue to rise over the controversial RIR homecoming parade.
Some of the police units deployed later today include the specialist E4A and District Mobile Support Units. The units have been deployed over fears the protests could be similar to the violence which erupted after the 'Love Ulster' parade was held in Dublin in 2006.
Said the source: "The threat from dissident republicans has been given top priority at MI5 and Sir Hugh has been told to get more officers. There are genuine fears over the parade because there will be so many opposing factions converging in the city and it just takes one person to kick-start serious disturbances."
A spokesman for the dissident republican Erigi group warned violence could erupt if their protesters are moved by police.
Said the spokesman: "Make no mistake about it — if there is trouble then blame will lie at the feet of the British."
"We have a right to engage in protest at the British war machine and we won't be forced off our own streets."
Assistant Chief Constable Alistair Finlay urged everyone to ensure parade and associated protest passes off peacefully.
He said: "Significant effort, in conjunction with parade and protest organisers and political and community representatives, has gone into the planning of Sunday's events. Our aim is to ensure the safety of all.
"Community leadership and personal responsibility will also play an important role in public safety. We are aware that there have been tensions building in the run up to the parade and protest. This is a time for cool heads.
"It is in everyone's interest for the day to pass off peacefully. The policing operation will be appropriate and proportionate to ensure public safety, minimum disruption and an early return to normality.
"However, we will not tolerate the activities of the very small number of people in society determined to cause trouble."
(http://ttp://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00034/eoghan_34382t.jpg)
Quote from: el_cuervo_fc on November 02, 2008, 03:19:29 PM
Brave teen defies dissident threats over contribution to charity record for Army
Doubt it was much of a definance. Good Luck to him, he could wear clown nose and comical glasses for all I care. Each to their own. Poppy's never annoyed me and neither should it anyone. I just dislike the fact that certain people turn their noses up at people who don't and those who wear them for the wrong reasons.
Quote from: armaghniac on November 02, 2008, 01:40:19 PM
Wearing paper poppies is an expression of British nationalism and imperialism.
To you, maybe. For many thousands of people in NI who do not otherwise e.g. belong to the Orange Order, fly Union Jacks outside their house, or belong to any political party etc, it is a simple remembrance of friends, family and loved ones who served at one stage or another.
Quote from: armaghniac on November 02, 2008, 01:40:19 PM
It is unacceptable to wear such a thing in any country given what the British have been up to over the years, but it is entirely unacceptable to do so in Ireland as we have been at the receiving end of this militarism.
Unacceptable to you. You have no idea why people wear Poppies, since I have no doubt you have never asked a single one. Nor, I suspect, would you accept their explanation if they did.
Quote from: armaghniac on November 02, 2008, 01:40:19 PM
That TV presenters and others do so is a sign of the continuing sectarian nature of these TV stations.
Or the sectarian nature of your mindset.
Quote from: armaghniac on November 02, 2008, 01:40:19 PM
It has nothing to do with the shamrock, which has no military connotations.
Too right the Poppy has nothing to do with the shamrock. Then again, I've never heard anyone object to the wearing of the shamrock - even though it does have a certain "military connotation" - and a Brit one, at that!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/1911770.stm
Quote from: armaghniac on November 02, 2008, 01:40:19 PM
It has nothing to do with commemorating the First World war, there will be gathering of Belgians, French, Austrians, Czech, Slovene, Italians and so forth to commemorate the First World War and there won't be single poppy on anyone's lapel.
Horesh1t. The Poppy dates back nearly 200 years, as a reminder of the poppies which sprung up on the battlefields of Flanders. After 1917, it was particularly chosen as a war remembrance symbol by Britain and numerous other Commonwealth countries:
http://www.rsa.org.nz/remem/poppy_sig.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remembrance_Day
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Flanders_Fields
There might be some excuse for your prejudice, but there can be none for your ignorance.
Quote from: ziggysego on November 02, 2008, 03:22:58 PM
Quote from: el_cuervo_fc on November 02, 2008, 03:19:29 PM
Brave teen defies dissident threats over contribution to charity record for Army
Doubt it was much of a definance. Good Luck to him, he could wear clown nose and comical glasses for all I care. Each to their own. Poppy's never annoyed me and neither should it anyone. I just dislike the fact that certain people turn their noses up at people who don't and those who wear them for the wrong reasons.
I thought the Headline was a bit much, but it was the threats that I was really getting at
EG I live in what would be described as an very old english style city, it wouldn't be a place emigrants would settle (for example I've only seen about 3 black since I've been here). Today I went in to the town, down the main street, in to 3 or 4 shops and then in to the supermarket. With this discussion in mind I took note of how many poppies I seen, I met hundreds and hundreds of people and counted 8 poppy wearers.
And you come on here and try and tell us that unionists in Northern Ireland don't wear them to rub nationalists noses in it?
HA!
QuoteWhat do people expect this young fella to do? he's trying to win this competition. I can't understand how some people can be so small minded
Dissident republicans blowing hot air, I woudlnt pass any remarks. Bet Dungiven gaa club was packed again last night.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 02, 2008, 03:53:48 PM
And you come on here and try and tell us that unionists in Northern Ireland don't wear them to rub nationalists noses in it?
Who cares if they do? What difference does it make? Why would you be offended?
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 02, 2008, 04:02:27 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 02, 2008, 03:53:48 PM
And you come on here and try and tell us that unionists in Northern Ireland don't wear them to rub nationalists noses in it?
Who cares if they do? What difference does it make? Why would you be offended?
It doesnt offend, I just think it's pathetic.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 02, 2008, 03:53:48 PM
EG I live in what would be described as an very old english style city, it wouldn't be a place emigrants would settle (for example I've only seen about 3 black since I've been here). Today I went in to the town, down the main street, in to 3 or 4 shops and then in to the supermarket. With this discussion in mind I took note of how many poppies I seen, I met hundreds and hundreds of people and counted 8 poppy wearers.
And you come on here and try and tell us that unionists in Northern Ireland don't wear them to rub nationalists noses in it?
HA!
Very scientific.
As I said earlier, different people in NI wear Poppies for different reasons. With some of them, it might be out of pro-British, anti-Irish prejudice. But by your refusal to ackonwledge any other reason than that one, you are merely displaying your own anti-British prejudice.
Anyhow, one additional reason why many people in NI make a point of wearing Poppies is to commemorate the Poppy Day Massacre.
Which possibly explains why many Irish Republicans feel "their noses are being rubbed in it" when confronted by the sight of a Poppy... ::)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enniskillen_bombing
QuoteAnyhow, one additional reason why many people in NI make a point of wearing Poppies is to commemorate the Poppy Day Massacre.
aye lets wheel out the Enniskillen bombing. ::)
I think it speaks volumes that unionists in the north are more concerned about wearing poppies than English people.
Irish republicanism and pacifism are not mutually exclusive ideals. How dare you insinuate that al Republicans should be guilty for the actions of a few?
Always thought it highly ironic that the allies in the second world war were fighting fascism, but now we have this 'poppy fascism' where anyone in the public eye who doesn't wear one is attacked by loyalist bigots in the letter columns of newpapers or on the radio ... all because they're not wearing their swastika armbands, er, sorry, poppies...
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 02, 2008, 03:03:03 PM
Quote from: fred the red on November 02, 2008, 11:18:28 AM
Walking around belfast yesterday, i would say 20-25% of people were wearing their poppy. Considering the unionist population over here would be max 60% it is clear that the unionist community in Northern ireland feel the need to show their support for the poppy much more than their english counterparts :-\
True enough, but "showing support for the poppy" should not automatically be conflated with fllaunting their Britishness, rubbing it in etc. There has always been a strong military tradition in NI*, more so than in other parts of the UK, so it is hardly unexpected that more people in NI should feel an affinity with the Poppy.
I've no doubt that many more people e.g. in garrison towns like Aldershot or Portsmouth etc wear the Poppy than e.g. in those parts of London where over 50% of the population was born outside the UK.
* - And in Ireland generally, prior to partition.
Yeah, the military tradition was that strong that when Adolf went into Poland the vast majority of those loyal subjects eligible in the statelet rushed to join reserved occupations (shipyard, B-Specials etc) rather than face the panzers ... much less hazardous staying at home bullying and intimidating the indiginous disloyal population ... and sure they'd be there to fight bravely for the union jack should Rommel come through the back door
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 02, 2008, 04:22:11 PM
QuoteAnyhow, one additional reason why many people in NI make a point of wearing Poppies is to commemorate the Poppy Day Massacre.
aye lets wheel out the Enniskillen bombing. ::)
This is a thread on an Irish forum, about the wearing of the Poppy, a week and a half before the anniversary of a particularly heinous massacre in Ireland, on Poppy Day. Anyone who can't see the relevance of that, or why it should be particular cause for many people in NI choosing to wear Poppies, is an idiot.
Since I don't think you're an idiot, is there any particular reason why reminders of that Massacre should strike a particular nerve with you?
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 02, 2008, 04:22:11 PM
I think it speaks volumes that unionists in the north are more concerned about wearing poppies than English people.
Some Unionists in "the north" [
sic] are more concerned about wearing poppies than some English people.
Live with it.
After all, we don't picket or demonstrate when Irish Republicans hold Commemorations etc for their "war dead" etc, even when these are for psychopathic, sectarian mass murderers like Seamus McElwaine:
Recalling the names of fallen IRA Volunteers Louis Leonard, Seamus McElwaine, Sean South and Fergal O'Hanlon, Mr. McHugh added: "It is important that we remember those who have given their lives in the struggle for Irish freedom, not just in his generation but in previous generations."http://www.impartialreporter.com/archive/2002-04-04/news/story3334.html
Quote from: red hander on November 02, 2008, 05:31:30 PM
Always thought it highly ironic that the allies in the second world war were fighting fascism, but now we have this 'poppy fascism' where anyone in the public eye who doesn't wear one is attacked by loyalist bigots in the letter columns of newpapers or on the radio ... all because they're not wearing their swastika armbands, er, sorry, poppies...
Only someone with a particularly twisted mindset could equate the wearing of a Poppy with wearing a Swastika Armband... >:(
EG
QuoteThis is a thread on an Irish forum, about the wearing of the Poppy, a week and a half before the anniversary of a particularly heinous massacre in Ireland, on Poppy Day. Anyone who can't see the relevance of that, or why it should be particular cause for many people in NI choosing to wear Poppies, is an idiot.
Since I don't think you're an idiot, is there any particular reason why reminders of that Massacre should strike a particular nerve with you?
Do you wear any badges or symbols to commentrate any other atrocity in Ireland? What do you wear in August to commentrate Omagh? What do you wear in January to commentrate Bloody Sunday? Don't insult our intelligence by wheeling out the Enniskillen bombing (and it's innocent victims) to justify you and your fellow unionist's bigotry.
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 02, 2008, 05:50:28 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 02, 2008, 05:31:30 PM
Always thought it highly ironic that the allies in the second world war were fighting fascism, but now we have this 'poppy fascism' where anyone in the public eye who doesn't wear one is attacked by loyalist bigots in the letter columns of newpapers or on the radio ... all because they're not wearing their swastika armbands, er, sorry, poppies...
Only someone with a particularly twisted mindset could equate the wearing of a Poppy with wearing a Swastika Armband... >:(
As usual, you miss the point ... the point being that everyone is expected to act uniformly (ie British) when it comes to the poppy, and there is no recognition by British people like yourself that there are other people in the statelet who are not British, they are Irish, and refuse to wear this symbol for very good reasons, one of them being the fact it encompasses black and tan/udr/ruc/rir members who colluded in and carried out the murder of irish people without fear of sanction because they were the so-called forces of law and order ... were the poppy just used to commemorate the lions led by donkeys in WWI or the brave men who fought Hitler in WWII, then I wouldn't have a problem, but I draw the line at showing support black and tan, udr, ruc and rir murdering scum
Quote from: red hander on November 02, 2008, 05:31:30 PM
Yeah, the military tradition was that strong that when Adolf went into Poland the vast majority of those loyal subjects eligible in the statelet rushed to join reserved occupations (shipyard, B-Specials etc) rather than face the panzers ... much less hazardous staying at home bullying and intimidating the indiginous disloyal population ... and sure they'd be there to fight bravely for the union jack should Rommel come through the back door
During the 1st World War, people volunteered in huge numbers from all over the British Isles, including from both traditions in both parts of Ireland.
However, such was the carnage and savagery in that conflict, that when the 2nd World War broke out just 21 years later, with memories still raw, the British Government knew that nowhere near the same numbers would volunteer. Therefore they introduced conscription nationwide.
However, they also knew that conscription could not be made to work in NI, the only part of the UK with a land border, since this would be frustrated by potentially large numbers of Nationalists (and maybe some Unionists?) crossing into the Free State to avoid it. Consequently, it would have cost more soldiers and police to try to enforce than it would produce.
Moreover, the peculiar circumstances of NI meant that higher than normal numbers would have been needed for "Reserved Occupations", For one thing, as a mostly rural Province, NI produced vital food in the "Dig For Victory" campaign. Moreover, with its Shipyards, Aircraft Factories and Heavy Engineering Works, Belfast was especially important in producing armaments etc for the millitary war effort. For example, I think I'm right in saying that Harland and Wolff was the only major British shipyard which didn't lose a day's production throughout the entire war. Which explains why Belfast suffered more from Blitzkrieg during the war than any comparable British city after London and Coventry, despite it being at the very furthest range of the Luftwaffe's aircraft.
And in any case, the record of NI's Unionists in the war with Nazism was a hell of a sight prouder than that of certain of their Republican neighbours - as Gerry Adams' father and uncle could no doubt testify... ::)
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 02, 2008, 05:56:08 PM
EG
QuoteThis is a thread on an Irish forum, about the wearing of the Poppy, a week and a half before the anniversary of a particularly heinous massacre in Ireland, on Poppy Day. Anyone who can't see the relevance of that, or why it should be particular cause for many people in NI choosing to wear Poppies, is an idiot.
Since I don't think you're an idiot, is there any particular reason why reminders of that Massacre should strike a particular nerve with you?
Do you wear any badges or symbols to commentrate any other atrocity in Ireland? What do you wear in August to commentrate Omagh? What do you wear in January to commentrate Bloody Sunday? Don't insult our intelligence by wheeling out the Enniskillen bombing (and it's innocent victims) to justify you and your fellow unionist's bigotry.
The Enniskillen Massacre happened on Poppy Day, an annual event. Therefore, it is obvious why people in NI should feel a special connection to Poppy Day and make a particular effort to wear the Poppy when that time comes round each year. Or do you imagine that we should NOT wear Poppies, for fear of "offending" (there's that word again) an extreme and unrepresentative few?
And how is the wearing of Poppies any different from e.g. the wearing of Easter Lilies by Irish Republicans? Other, of course, that when Irish Republicans organise commemorations of the Easter Rising, replete with Lilies, Unionists don't organise counter-demonstrations. And that the Poppy represents a whole range of conflicts down the decades, the overwhelming majority of which have no relation to the particular partisan politics of Ireland. And the fact that whilst the British Services are the legitimate armed forces of the land, many of those who commemorate the Easter Rising do so in the name of an organisation which is proscribed by the legitmate Governments in both parts of Ireland...
Anyhow, I am actually gratified that so many people on this forum, whilst not sympathising either with Unionism or the British Army etc, can still retain the perspective and equanimity to accept that symbols like the Poppy are important to the other tradition on the island and that the wearing of them at appropriate times need not give undue offence (other than to those who are absolutley determined to be "offended" by every conceivable cause, on every conceivable occasion... :o)
QuoteThe Enniskillen Massacre happened on Poppy Day, an annual event. Therefore, it is obvious why people in NI should feel a special connection to Poppy Day and make a particular effort to wear the Poppy when that time comes round each year. Or do you imagine that we should NOT wear Poppies, for fear of "offending" (there's that word again) an extreme and unrepresentative few?
I ask again, what do you wear to commentrate Omagh or Bloody Sunday? If you're worried about commentrating the innocent victims of the North's troubles I assume you wear some symbol to commentrate these events and countless others?
Didn't unionists wear poppies before the Enniskillen bomb? Of course they did.
Im not surprised that you use the innocent victims of Enniskillen, just like you use the brave men who died in the World Wars, as an excuse to express your bigotry.
Quote
And how is the wearing of Poppies any different from e.g. the wearing of Easter Lilies by Irish Republicans?
Well you don't see Republicans wearing lilies two weeks before easter and anyone who appears on Irish television a month before isn't forced to wear the symbol or face ridicule from a pack of bigots.
QuoteOther, of course, that when Irish Republicans organise commemorations of the Easter Rising, replete with Lilies, Unionists don't organise counter-demonstrations.
probably because republicans don't march through areas they're not wanted in for 9 months of the year ::)
cant believe this thread is still going on
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 02, 2008, 06:38:48 PM
QuoteThe Enniskillen Massacre happened on Poppy Day, an annual event. Therefore, it is obvious why people in NI should feel a special connection to Poppy Day and make a particular effort to wear the Poppy when that time comes round each year. Or do you imagine that we should NOT wear Poppies, for fear of "offending" (there's that word again) an extreme and unrepresentative few?
I ask again, what do you wear to commentrate Omagh or Bloody Sunday? If you're worried about commentrating the innocent victims of the North's troubles I assume you wear some symbol to commentrate these events and countless others?
Didn't unionists wear poppies before the Enniskillen bomb? Of course they did.
Im not surprised that you use the innocent victims of Enniskillen, just like you use the brave men who died in the World Wars, as an excuse to express your bigotry.
You don't get it, do you? People in NI wore Poppies annually before Enniskillen. Since then, however, it has had a particular resonance, especially since Poppy Day has an additional greater significance (two World Wars etc), about which we are reminded, along with the rest of the UK, every year.
As for e.g. Omagh or Bloody Sunday, there is no equivalent symbol which marks those particular atrocities. But that does not stop those who wish to from commemorating them as they feel appropriate (e.g. services, marches etc). So why should those of us moved by Remembrance Sunday have to apologise to what is increasingly clear to be a small and virulent anti-British minority? The majority of Nationalists can tolerate the Poppy, just as the majority of Unionists tolerate equivalent displays of their culture/heritage/community etc by Nationalists.
And what is "bigoted" about defending the wearing of the Poppy? Are these people "bigots"?
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/kfcwauqlaukf/
http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/eng/index.asp?docID=2517
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_National_War_Memorial_Gardens
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 02, 2008, 06:38:48 PM
Quote
And how is the wearing of Poppies any different from e.g. the wearing of Easter Lilies by Irish Republicans?
Well you don't see Republicans wearing lilies two weeks before easter and anyone who appears on Irish television a month before isn't forced to wear the symbol or face ridicule from a pack of bigots.
QuoteOther, of course, that when Irish Republicans organise commemorations of the Easter Rising, replete with Lilies, Unionists don't organise counter-demonstrations.
probably because republicans don't march through areas they're not wanted in for 9 months of the year ::)
Easter Lilies are not worn to raise money for ex-Servicemens charities etc. Poppies are, and as already been pointed out, if they restricted their sale to Remembrance Sunday itself, they wouldn't raise a fraction of the over £30m which is currently raised each year. So once again, you are not comparing like-with-like. As for the protocol adopted by "Irish television" (RTE?), if you don't like this, you are prefectly at liberty to contact them and register your complaint. Which would be quite appropriate, since the freedom to protest - and stage counter demonstrations in Belfast - is just the sort of freedom which many servicemen and women gave their lives for, as commemorated on Remembrance Sunday...
And I repeat, how does this morning's MOD parade, or any of the Remembrance Sunday ceremonies which will be held throughout NI this month, constitute "marching through areas they're not wanted in"?
This thread is about the wearing of the Poppy. For you to employ blatant "whataboutery" (i.e. Orange Order Marches) in this debate proves the poverty of your argument.
Quote from: milltown row on November 02, 2008, 07:00:25 PM
cant believe this thread is still going on
POG is extremely offended by all these Unionists wearing poppies even though he is living in england where hardly anyone is wearing a poppy! Work that one out!
'For example, I think I'm right in saying that Harland and Wolff was the only major British shipyard which didn't lose a day's production throughout the entire war. '
Wrong (again): From article in Independent on Sunday March 11 2000 by David McKittrick entitled 'Hammer blow may break an industry that has grown up with Unionist iron in its soul'
'This tough assertiveness (of H&W workers) reached particular heights during the Second World War as the shipyards employed 20,000 men, turning out 140 warships and many merchant vessels.
'While this was an essential part of the war effort, shipyard workers also became known for their readiness to go on strike for higher pay.
'One particular strike was described by Winston Churchill as "shocking" and by the Stormont government as "sabotage" and "a betrayal".
'But when five of the strike leaders were jailed, the entire shipbuilding workforce downed tools until the employers and the government caved in.'
For example, I think I'm right in saying Harland and Wolff was the ONLY major British shipyard which went on STRIKE during the entire war...
Protestant loyalty, eh? Aye, to the f**king half-crown...
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 02, 2008, 07:25:54 PM
Quote from: milltown row on November 02, 2008, 07:00:25 PM
cant believe this thread is still going on
POG is extremely offended by all these Unionists wearing poppies even though he is living in england where hardly anyone is wearing a poppy! Work that one out!
He is also apparently offended from afar by this morning's RIR Parade in Belfast. I home he wasn't anywhere near Shropshire last month...
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fAaRdosqwXo
P.S. Is there a better marching tune anywhere in the world than "Killaloe"?
YO!
EG
QuoteYou don't get it, do you? People in NI wore Poppies annually before Enniskillen. Since then, however, it has had a particular resonance, especially since Poppy Day has an additional greater significance (two World Wars etc), about which we are reminded, along with the rest of the UK, every year.
Bull! A majority of people wearing Poppies in the North do it as they consider it to be a marker that they are British. That is the only explanation I can come to as to why today I can walk through an English city and there's very few wearing them whereas if I walked through Belfast I would see considerable more.
I have no issue with anyone taking part in the commentration or wearing a poppy if it's for the right reason.
Quote from: red hander on November 02, 2008, 07:27:47 PM
'For example, I think I'm right in saying that Harland and Wolff was the only major British shipyard which didn't lose a day's production throughout the entire war. '
Wrong (again): From article in Independent on Sunday March 11 2000 by David McKittrick entitled 'Hammer blow may break an industry that has grown up with Unionist iron in its soul'
'This tough assertiveness (of H&W workers) reached particular heights during the Second World War as the shipyards employed 20,000 men, turning out 140 warships and many merchant vessels.
'While this was an essential part of the war effort, shipyard workers also became known for their readiness to go on strike for higher pay.
'One particular strike was described by Winston Churchill as "shocking" and by the Stormont government as "sabotage" and "a betrayal".
'But when five of the strike leaders were jailed, the entire shipbuilding workforce downed tools until the employers and the government caved in.'
For example, I think I'm right in saying Harland and Wolff was the ONLY major British shipyard which went on STRIKE during the entire war...
Protestant loyalty, eh? Aye, to the f**king half-crown...
Belfast/H&W was by no means unique in the UK in seeing workers take industrial action during the war, even in vital industries. For example, the miners went on strike on more than one occasion, prompting the following comments:
"[The strikes in the pits are] worse than if Hitler had bombed Sheffield and all of our communications had been cut.'
(Ernest Bevin, Minister of Labour, 1944)
"Bevin won't climb down, so we'll pull him down."
(South Wales Miner, 1944, on the government's hostility to nationalising the mines)
"Here we were, just about winning the war, and losing our trade union rights. So what the bloody hell had we been fighting for?"
(Trade Unionist, August 1945) http://www.newstatesman.com/forum_view.php?newTemplate=OpenFullList&newTop=300000026522&newDisplayURN=300000026522
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 02, 2008, 07:42:00 PM
Bull! A majority of people wearing Poppies in the North do it as they consider it to be a marker that they are British. That is the only explanation I can come to as to why today I can walk through an English city and there's very few wearing them whereas if I walked through Belfast I would see considerable more.
I have no issue with anyone taking part in the commentration or wearing a poppy if it's for the right reason.
I've already given you two explanations, other than demonstrating "Britishness", why Poppy-wearing may be more widespread in Ni than GB. (Enniskillen and the wider military tradition).
Personally, i don't give a fcuk whether you accept this or not.
And even if demonstrating Britishness were to be the only reason why they do, I'm not much bothered, either, since as 5ive Times so eloquently put it on another thread, NI is British. And it is not the wearing of British imagery which causes it to be so, nor would the denial of British imagery cause it to cease to be so.
So if even Bart Simpson can get it, so why can't you?
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6wrxy_irish_fun
(1 minute and 8 seconds in)
'Belfast/H&W was by no means unique in the UK in seeing workers take industrial action during the war, even in vital industries.'
That's some U-turn EG, I'd check those tyres for the legal thread levels
At least you finally admit it EG, it's sad that you use the deaths of so many, whether it be in the trenchs or in Enniskillen to play silly little sectarian games.
Quote from: hardstation on November 02, 2008, 01:33:00 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on November 02, 2008, 01:13:47 AM
I was flicking through the letter pages on ITV a few days. Girl Aloud were being interviewed on the telly last week or the beginning of the week. They all had their Poppies on, except Nadine. Apparently she didn't want to wear it. Some bloke from Carrickfergus was writing, complaining that she should have to show her Britishness.
::) What a load of bollox.
That reminds me of Rossfan when talking about the Irish language.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 22, 2008, 07:06:18 PM
It's very much alive and if you want to be considered a proper Irishman you should learn a bit of it instead of the oul Seóinín/Unionist attitude of get rid of all that oul Irishness. >:(
Maith thú, Rossfan. Is mór an náire ort.
::)
Ar do rothar a Hardy agus fág mise as an rud seo.
Ní bheidh mise ag caitheamh poppy agus má fheicim aon Seóiníneach timpeall na h-áite seo ag caitheamh ceann............ >:( >:(
A symbol of British Imperialistic Pompous Bombastic Triumphalist militarism is all it is.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 02, 2008, 12:08:42 AM
The unionists in Northern ireland use it as some sort of marker, a badge of identity.
Some unionists.
I haven't come across a poppy "seller" this year. Have made a donation online and had dedicated a poppy (for the field at the Menin Gate) to two great-uncles from the Royal Irish Rifles, who died in 1917 aged 17.
I would wear a poppy as an act of commemoration. I certainly don't flaunt it in anyone's face. I see the donation as the main thing in any case.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 02, 2008, 07:42:00 PMA majority of people wearing Poppies in the North do it as they consider it to be a marker that they are British. That is the only explanation I can come to as to why today I can walk through an English city and there's very few wearing them whereas if I walked through Belfast I would see considerable more.
I have no issue with anyone taking part in the commentration or wearing a poppy if it's for the right reason.
Why have any issue regardless of the reason? Even if every one of them was wearing their poppy just to assert their British identity, what difference does it make?
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 02, 2008, 09:29:18 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 02, 2008, 07:42:00 PMA majority of people wearing Poppies in the North do it as they consider it to be a marker that they are British. That is the only explanation I can come to as to why today I can walk through an English city and there's very few wearing them whereas if I walked through Belfast I would see considerable more.
I have no issue with anyone taking part in the commentration or wearing a poppy if it's for the right reason.
Why have any issue regardless of the reason? Even if every one of them was wearing their poppy just to assert their British identity, what difference does it make?
Because it's a pathetic attempt to try and rub nationalist's noses in it.
Quote from: Rossfan on November 02, 2008, 08:44:28 PM
Quote from: hardstation on November 02, 2008, 01:33:00 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on November 02, 2008, 01:13:47 AM
I was flicking through the letter pages on ITV a few days. Girl Aloud were being interviewed on the telly last week or the beginning of the week. They all had their Poppies on, except Nadine. Apparently she didn't want to wear it. Some bloke from Carrickfergus was writing, complaining that she should have to show her Britishness.
::) What a load of bollox.
That reminds me of Rossfan when talking about the Irish language.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 22, 2008, 07:06:18 PM
It's very much alive and if you want to be considered a proper Irishman you should learn a bit of it instead of the oul Seóinín/Unionist attitude of get rid of all that oul Irishness. >:(
Maith thú, Rossfan. Is mór an náire ort.
::)
Ar do rothar a Hardy agus fág mise as an rud seo.
Fág mise as freisin!
Jeeze did handy make a post that wasnt about children.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 02, 2008, 09:31:49 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 02, 2008, 09:29:18 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 02, 2008, 07:42:00 PMA majority of people wearing Poppies in the North do it as they consider it to be a marker that they are British. That is the only explanation I can come to as to why today I can walk through an English city and there's very few wearing them whereas if I walked through Belfast I would see considerable more.
I have no issue with anyone taking part in the commentration or wearing a poppy if it's for the right reason.
Why have any issue regardless of the reason? Even if every one of them was wearing their poppy just to assert their British identity, what difference does it make?
Because it's a pathetic attempt to try and rub nationalist's noses in it.
utter tosh.
The poppy is a means to remember those who have fallen and nothing more. I will concede that there are a few clowns of low intelligence who use the poppy as a way to aggrivate 'the other side' but most people, the decent people in the community wear a poppy in remembrance of those who fell defending our country.
Bullshit
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 02, 2008, 10:43:50 PM
Jeeze did handy make a post that wasnt about children.
That was Hardy - thought you were done with me. :-* :-*
Shite and onions. I never said a word.
Why the feck is Ronan Rafferty, a man from Warrenpoint and who went to (cough, spit) the Abbey, wearing a poppy of Setanta Sport?
I can understand why wee Eoghan X had to wear one, and the clowns at BBC gotta do what their name suggests. But Setanta?
I read today that the family of the young chap on the X-factor reality show have been asked not to wear Dungiven jersies when attending the televised parts. Apparently there was accusations about Hunger Strike jersies (I'm guessing that this is the Kevin Lynch connection?). Anyhow it turns out that there was no "Kevin Lynch" text on the jersies, it was just the Dungiven colours.
One would have to compliment the Unionist/Loyalist offendees on their knowledge of GAA colours!
As regards the Poppy, it should be acceptable (and understandable) to British (including Unionist) people that Irish people may not want to wear a symbol closely associated with the British Army. This is due to the well documented actions of the Brtisih Army in an Irish context. No-one should be (or feel) coerced into wearing one when appearring on TV, in public etc.. On the flip side, people shouldn't assume to know the motivations of the wearer.
/Jim.
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 03, 2008, 11:06:16 AM
As regards the Poppy, it should be acceptable (and understandable) to British (including Unionist) people that Irish people may not want to wear a symbol closely associated with the British Army. This is due to the well documented actions of the Brtisih Army in an Irish context. No-one should be (or feel) coerced into wearing one when appearring on TV, in public etc.. On the flip side, people shouldn't assume to know the motivations of the wearer.
/Jim.
Wouldn't argue with any of that.
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 03, 2008, 11:20:22 AM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 03, 2008, 11:06:16 AM
As regards the Poppy, it should be acceptable (and understandable) to British (including Unionist) people that Irish people may not want to wear a symbol closely associated with the British Army. This is due to the well documented actions of the Brtisih Army in an Irish context. No-one should be (or feel) coerced into wearing one when appearring on TV, in public etc.. On the flip side, people shouldn't assume to know the motivations of the wearer.
/Jim.
Wouldn't argue with any of that.
Likewise.
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 03, 2008, 11:06:16 AM
I read today that the family of the young chap on the X-factor reality show have been asked not to wear Dungiven jersies when attending the televised parts. Apparently there was accusations about Hunger Strike jersies (I'm guessing that this is the Kevin Lynch connection?). Anyhow it turns out that there was no "Kevin Lynch" text on the jersies, it was just the Dungiven colours.
One would have to compliment the Unionist/Loyalist offendees on their knowledge of GAA colours!
As regards the Poppy, it should be acceptable (and understandable) to British (including Unionist) people that Irish people may not want to wear a symbol closely associated with the British Army. This is due to the well documented actions of the Brtisih Army in an Irish context. No-one should be (or feel) coerced into wearing one when appearring on TV, in public etc.. On the flip side, people shouldn't assume to know the motivations of the wearer.
/Jim.
Jim, I might be wrong but I don't think those were Dungiven jerseys that Eoghan's family were wearing...they looked to me like they were green and white and do Dungiven not play in black & white? However I did notice that Eoghan wore what looked like a Dungiven GAA polo shirt in one of the "talking head" sections. The Kevin Lynch's website has several articles about Eoghan on it wishing him good luck etc so they don't seem too concerned about his poppy wearing or singing on the single.
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on November 03, 2008, 11:32:19 AM
Jim, I might be wrong but I don't think those were Dungiven jerseys that Eoghan's family were wearing...they looked to me like they were green and white and do Dungiven not play in black & white? However I did notice that Eoghan wore what looked like a Dungiven GAA polo shirt in one of the "talking head" sections. The Kevin Lynch's website has several articles about Eoghan on it wishing him good luck etc so they don't seem too concerned about his poppy wearing or singing on the single.
I haven't the article to hand so I won't argue. I think it is sad that the young lad is getting flak in either case.
/Jim.
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 03, 2008, 11:36:00 AM
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on November 03, 2008, 11:32:19 AM
Jim, I might be wrong but I don't think those were Dungiven jerseys that Eoghan's family were wearing...they looked to me like they were green and white and do Dungiven not play in black & white? However I did notice that Eoghan wore what looked like a Dungiven GAA polo shirt in one of the "talking head" sections. The Kevin Lynch's website has several articles about Eoghan on it wishing him good luck etc so they don't seem too concerned about his poppy wearing or singing on the single.
I haven't the article to hand so I won't argue. I think it is sad that the young lad is getting flak in either case.
/Jim.
I dont think any GAA person is giving him flak. But its sad that OWC again go out of their way to be upset by the a club name.
Quote from: Orior on November 03, 2008, 11:52:56 AM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 03, 2008, 11:36:00 AM
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on November 03, 2008, 11:32:19 AM
Jim, I might be wrong but I don't think those were Dungiven jerseys that Eoghan's family were wearing...they looked to me like they were green and white and do Dungiven not play in black & white? However I did notice that Eoghan wore what looked like a Dungiven GAA polo shirt in one of the "talking head" sections. The Kevin Lynch's website has several articles about Eoghan on it wishing him good luck etc so they don't seem too concerned about his poppy wearing or singing on the single.
I haven't the article to hand so I won't argue. I think it is sad that the young lad is getting flak in either case.
/Jim.
I dont think any GAA person is giving him flak. But its sad that OWC again go out of their way to be upset by the a club name.
What do you mean by OWC?
Quote from: Chrisowc on November 03, 2008, 11:58:51 AM
Quote from: Orior on November 03, 2008, 11:52:56 AM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 03, 2008, 11:36:00 AM
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on November 03, 2008, 11:32:19 AM
Jim, I might be wrong but I don't think those were Dungiven jerseys that Eoghan's family were wearing...they looked to me like they were green and white and do Dungiven not play in black & white? However I did notice that Eoghan wore what looked like a Dungiven GAA polo shirt in one of the "talking head" sections. The Kevin Lynch's website has several articles about Eoghan on it wishing him good luck etc so they don't seem too concerned about his poppy wearing or singing on the single.
I haven't the article to hand so I won't argue. I think it is sad that the young lad is getting flak in either case.
/Jim.
I dont think any GAA person is giving him flak. But its sad that OWC again go out of their way to be upset by the a club name.
What do you mean by OWC?
OWC = Unionist Loyalists
Only seen one poppy today.
i was in Larne and i only seen one!!!
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 03, 2008, 07:26:28 PM
Only seen one poppy today.
Half our office are wearing them - have been for past two weeks!!
Quote from: milltown row on November 03, 2008, 07:42:28 PM
i was in Larne and i only seen one!!!
Maybe they only wear them when they can rub them in someone's face.
Quote from: Handy on November 03, 2008, 07:48:08 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 03, 2008, 07:26:28 PM
Only seen one poppy today.
Half our office are wearing them - have been for past two weeks!!
thats a week early, do youse have a stand off ;D? will ya speak to them afterwards?
it only rubs ya up the wrong way if your easily offended by people wearing plastic flowers ;) by wearing them POG, does it make a difference? because after they take them off they'll still feel the same way only they will not wear them for the other 48 weeks of the year!!!
you would not have liked were i worked for many years, i once walked into the canteen and i saw the biggest union jack EVER.
Quoteyou would not have liked were i worked for many years, i once walked into the canteen and i saw the biggest union jack EVER.
Was this in ireland? You're right, Id think they were a pack of c***ts.
They wear and sell them in Canada
maybe, but do ya think if the unionist were not in power in the north and the nationalist held sway in the shipyards and aircraft factory, would unionists feel alienated and discriminated against?
like i've said in the past, i dont let these things annoy me, i've bills to pay holidays to take and kids to worry about. oh and the odd hurling and football games to play.
Quote from: milltown row on November 03, 2008, 08:16:01 PM
maybe, but do ya think if the unionist were not in power in the north and the nationalist held sway in the shipyards and aircraft factory, would unionists feel alienated and discriminated against?
like i've said in the past, i dont let these things annoy me, i've bills to pay holidays to take and kids to worry about. oh and the odd hurling and football games to play.
There was me thinking you knew nothing about the bigger ball too ;)
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 03, 2008, 07:50:33 PM
Quote from: milltown row on November 03, 2008, 07:42:28 PM
i was in Larne and i only seen one!!!
Maybe they only wear them when they can rub them in someone's face.
How would they know when they might get an opportunity? Surely they'd wear one 'just in case' they walked past a Catholic? Or maybe they have a spare in their pocket that they take out when they see someone looking a bit Catholic...
...or maybe this is all a load of crap.
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on November 03, 2008, 08:24:46 PM
Quote from: milltown row on November 03, 2008, 08:16:01 PM
maybe, but do ya think if the unionist were not in power in the north and the nationalist held sway in the shipyards and aircraft factory, would unionists feel alienated and discriminated against?
like i've said in the past, i dont let these things annoy me, i've bills to pay holidays to take and kids to worry about. oh and the odd hurling and football games to play.
There was me thinking you knew nothing about the bigger ball too ;)
I KNOW NOTHING, I'M FROM BARCELONA
maguire, they know if the work with nationaists or not.
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 03, 2008, 08:01:57 PM
They wear and sell them in Canada
The tentacles of unionism reach even the unsuspecting Irish taigs working in Canada...
Was there ever an official count on the number of Irish men who died in WW1??
I heard it was close to 30,000 but that may have been a huge exaggeration.
Does anyone know if its true that the majority of Irish men went to fight on the promise that Ireland would be granted independence as recompense for their service?
What was the total number of English killed during WW1? Not counting Irish who made up a lot of their troops.
British Empire had over 800,000 deaths according to Wiki
Quote from: The Iceman on November 03, 2008, 08:54:54 PM
Does anyone know if its true that the majority of Irish men went to fight on the promise that Ireland would be granted independence as recompense for their service?
First time i've heard that one. Surely they have looked for more than a verbal promise before risking their lives, if that had been their motiviation.
Quote from: milltown row on November 03, 2008, 08:33:01 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on November 03, 2008, 08:24:46 PM
Quote from: milltown row on November 03, 2008, 08:16:01 PM
maybe, but do ya think if the unionist were not in power in the north and the nationalist held sway in the shipyards and aircraft factory, would unionists feel alienated and discriminated against?
like i've said in the past, i dont let these things annoy me, i've bills to pay holidays to take and kids to worry about. oh and the odd hurling and football games to play.
There was me thinking you knew nothing about the bigger ball too ;)
I KNOW NOTHING, I'M FROM BARCELONA
Don't tell him anythnig about the horse
thats true, there was two sides fighting for promises of independence. unionist keeping the north orange, and the nationalist for ireland free from Britain, was win win for Britain
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 03, 2008, 09:04:33 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on November 03, 2008, 08:54:54 PM
Does anyone know if its true that the majority of Irish men went to fight on the promise that Ireland would be granted independence as recompense for their service?
First time i've heard that one. Surely they have looked for more than a verbal promise before risking their lives, if that had been their motiviation.
The Home Rule Party went on the promise of Home Rule.
3rd Home Rule Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Home_Rule_Act) from Wiki with the usual caveats.
On 11, April 1912, the Prime Minister introduced the Third Home Rule Bill which foresaw granting Ireland self-government. Allowing more autonomy than its two predecessors, the bill provided for:
A bicameral Irish Parliament to be set up in Dublin (a 40-member Senate and a 164-member House of Commons) with powers to deal with most national affairs;
A number of Irish MPs would continue to sit in the Imperial Parliament in Westminster (42 MPs, rather than 103).
The abolition of Dublin Castle, though with the retention of the Lord Lieutenant.
The Bill was passed by the Commons by a majority of 10 votes but the House of Lords rejected it 326 votes to 69. In 1913 it was re-introduced and again passed the Commons but was again rejected by the Lords by 302 votes to 64. In 1914 after the third reading, the Bill passed the Commons on 25 May by a majority of 77. Having been defeated a third time in the Lords, the Government used the provisions of the Parliament Act to override the Lords and send it for Royal Assent.
With the outbreak of what was expected to be a short Great War in August 1914, looming civil war in Ireland was averted. Both mainstream nationalists and unionists, keen to ensure the implementation of the Act on the one hand and to influence the issue of how temporary was partition to be on the other, rallied in support of Britain's war commitment to the Allies under the Triple Entente. See also: * Department of the Taoiseach - Irish Soldiers in the First World War.
The Irish Volunteers split into the larger National Volunteers and a rump who kept the original title. The NV and many other Irishmen, convinced at the time that Ireland had won freedom and self-government under the Act, joined Irish regiments of the 10th (Irish) Division or the 16th (Irish) Division of the New British Army to "defend the freedom of other small nations" and to fight in France and Belgium for a Europe free from oppression. The men of the Ulster Volunteers went on to join the 36th (Ulster) Division, and unlike their nationalist counterparts who apart from Irish General William Hickie, lacked prior military training to act as officers, were allowed their own local reserve militia officers.
However, a fringe element of nationalism, represented by the remaining Irish Volunteers, opposed Irish support for the war effort, believing Irishmen who wanted to "defend the freedom of small nations" should focus on one closer to hand. In Easter 1916 a rebellion, the Easter Rising, took place in Dublin. Initially widely condemned in view of the heavy Irish war losses on the Western Front and in the disastrous Gallipoli V beach landing at Cape Helles (the main nationalist newspaper, the Irish Independent, demanded the execution of the rebels), the British government's mishandling of the aftermath of the Rising, including the protracted executions of the Rising's leaders by General Maxwell, led to the rise of an Irish republican movement in Sinn Féin, a small previously separatist monarchist party taken over by the rebellion's survivors, after it had been wrongly blamed for the rebellion by the British.Interesting view of Sinn Féin as a 'previously separatist
monarchist party'.
muppet, that's exactly the ideology Douglas deHide had envisaged for SF as a political party
Quote from: muppet on November 03, 2008, 09:43:54 PM
Interesting view of Sinn Féin as a 'previously separatist monarchist party'.
Why is it interesting? I don't think anyone has ever questioned the origins of Sinn Féin. Arthur Griffith (not Douglas Hyde as stated below) founded the party on a policy of dual monarchy, based on his study of Austria/Hungary. Essentially 2 separate states with one monarch.
/Jim.
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 04, 2008, 09:50:53 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 03, 2008, 09:43:54 PM
Interesting view of Sinn Féin as a 'previously separatist monarchist party'.
Why is it interesting? I don't think anyone has ever questioned the origins of Sinn Féin. Arthur Griffith (not Douglas Hyde as stated below) founded the party on a policy of dual monarchy, based on his study of Austria/Hungary. Essentially 2 separate states with one monarch.
/Jim.
While that was his ideal he did not found the SF political party. He founded SF, but as a political News Paper and had no intenetions of organising SF as a political party. The ideas and name of his news paper was infiltrated and taken over by the IRA before it became a political party.