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QuoteCork can't have their cake and eat it.

Quote from: INDIANA on October 23, 2008, 11:24:10 PM
would cork miss them at this stage? at some point enough is enough.

Quote from: johnneycool on October 24, 2008, 01:05:31 PM

Quote from: INDIANA on October 23, 2008, 11:24:10 PM
would cork miss them at this stage? at some point enough is enough.

Donal O'g and Sully wouldn't be missed but Sean O'g O' Hailpin and gardiner would most certainly be but with Donal O'g seeming to rule the roost down there it's hard to tell if they be just so bolshie with him gone.

I wonder if he ever goes into management would he like being undermined by players all the time!

Quote from: orangeman on October 24, 2008, 03:28:08 PM
Cork gave Kilkeeny a right game -

Does Donal Og and those lads reckon that there's an AI in this team ? Or do they just want their "own" man picked for the job ?

Quote from: AZOffaly on October 24, 2008, 04:46:47 PM
That may be so TBT, but why did the two player reps on the selection panel, Donal Og and one other, decide to abstain from the vote in that case?

Given how hard they fought for representation on that process, it seems a waste to abstain. And if Donal Og is behind McCarthy, why not vote for him?

Perhaps the two reps are simply that, reps, and must vote according to their instruction from the panel at large, but does this mean that the panel are split, and majority doesn't rule (i.e. Abstain), or did Donal disagree with what the panel told him to do.

It seems an awful waste to abstain from such a vote.

Quote from: AZOffaly on October 24, 2008, 04:46:47 PM
That may be so TBT, but why did the two player reps on the selection panel, Donal Og and one other, decide to abstain from the vote in that case?

Given how hard they fought for representation on that process, it seems a waste to abstain. And if Donal Og is behind McCarthy, why not vote for him?

Perhaps the two reps are simply that, reps, and must vote according to their instruction from the panel at large, but does this mean that the panel are split, and majority doesn't rule (i.e. Abstain), or did Donal disagree with what the panel told him to do.

It seems an awful waste to abstain from such a vote.

Quote from: TBT on October 24, 2008, 04:40:04 PM
Anonymous discussion forums such as this truely are the lowest form of discourse. The gobsh1tes dissing Donal Cusack are blissfully unaware that he is one of only two players that wants McCarthy to remain on in his position. Don't let something as trivial as the facts get in the way of such illuminating and noteworthy discussion.

Quote from: INDIANA on October 24, 2008, 07:11:29 PM
because skull he most probably isn't in possesion in the facts. the reality is the cork players wouldn't be happy with christy ring as a manager. the players should simply say what their poisition is and the ones that don't want to play should be told to sling their hook.

Quote from: INDIANA on October 25, 2008, 01:04:37 AM
don't agree reillers .

despite being the most professionally prepared team in the country, they still aren't happy. its always the nuclear option, everyone supported them in 2002, this time we're bored. they've been given everything to prepare properly at this stage. The bottom line is this for the Cork people out there, this team as it stands is over. when you cut through all the bullshit , thats the bottom line, they can't match kilkenny anymore and some of the players can't understand why, so lets blame the manager to cover up for our basic inadequacies on the pitch.
Who gives these Cork players Reillers the right to

a) demand the priviledge of the Cork jersey
b) always assume they are good enough to play at county level.

At that stage why don't some of the players retire and coach the team themselves. Because at this stage , short of getting alex ferguson in to do the job, thes guys will never be happy. Its not Mc Carthy's fault kilkenny are better than them. Because thats where this is being driven from. I though Mc Carthy literally extracted as much as anyone could from them last year, Cork are not the force they were. Some of the players need to recognise that. Self delusion is a wonderful thing in life.

Quote from: theskull1 on October 25, 2008, 01:29:30 AM
Oh Reillers...you make it sound so innocent

28 players meet and vote against the decision of the board to appoint a manager. Extrapolate that across every democratic decision made in the country and you might realize that that is why rules exist and that is why the players have absolutely no right to feel that they should have a say over who the county board (including 2 player representative) elect for that position. Who the f**k do they think they are?

Yes apart that they have done nothing    ::)

Quote from: hardstation on October 25, 2008, 02:36:49 AM

Quote from: Lecale2 on October 24, 2008, 08:36:23 PM
Am I the only one who is fed up with this sh*te from Cork? I don't care any more who is right and who is wrong. It's just boring.

No. They are boring b**tards. Hopefully they just f**k off next year. Don't enter the NL or Championship. Just go and sort yourselves out without interfering with other teams, again.

Quote from: hardstation on October 25, 2008, 02:50:11 AM
Holding the National League up because you are a bunch of whinging b**tards is, for one year, less than acceptable. Now, it looks like it's going to happen the second year.......Cork, just f**k off, nobody gives a ballix.

Quote from: hardstation on October 25, 2008, 02:50:11 AM
Holding the National League up because you are a bunch of whinging b**tards is, for one year, less than acceptable. Now, it looks like it's going to happen the second year.......Cork, just f**k off, nobody gives a ballix.

Quote from: pintsofguinness on October 25, 2008, 10:27:05 AM

Quote from: hardstation on October 25, 2008, 02:50:11 AM
Holding the National League up because you are a bunch of whinging b**tards is, for one year, less than acceptable. Now, it looks like it's going to happen the second year.......Cork, just f**k off, nobody gives a ballix.

Exactly, can't believe we're going through this again with these pricks.

Quote from: orangeman on October 25, 2008, 10:29:32 AM
Reillers - no disrepect to you or the Cork players but this is just getting beyond a joke. It's high time the Cork hurlers ( and I'm not sure all of them are involved in this or not ) just simply said, let's play away and try and break the hold that KK have on hurling.

The whole country are already fed up reading, listening and watching about Cork hurlers.


Let them go out and do their talking on the pitch. Not in committee rooms, where respect for Cork players in the eyes of the general public is falling rapidly, year after year, strike after threatened strike.

Quote from: orangeman on October 25, 2008, 10:29:32 AM
Reillers - no disrepect to you or the Cork players but this is just getting beyond a joke. It's high time the Cork hurlers ( and I'm not sure all of them are involved in this or not ) just simply said, let's play away and try and break the hold that KK have on hurling.

The whole country are already fed up reading, listening and watching about Cork hurlers.


Let them go out and do their talking on the pitch. Not in committee rooms, where respect for Cork players in the eyes of the general public is falling rapidly, year after year, strike after threatened strike.

QuoteIf everyones sick of us, then why are you here. Why is everyone here wasting their time crying and whining over nothing.

Quote from: orangeman on October 25, 2008, 12:30:56 PM
Reillers - you're very, very passionate about the Cork cause and fair play to you for that - and fair play to the hurlers for being so passionate, but spitting the dummy out isn't going to resolve anything.

The point I'm trying to make to you ( and by the way I have NOT insulted anyone here ) is that the general public are sick of the strikes and the threat of strikes. How can one player say that all the players will not go back.

Did Gerald Mc Carthy loss you last years' AI ?


Answer is no !


KK are simply hurling at a different level to eveyone else at the minute. Things will change but the only way of beating KK is out on the field.

If I was a Cork hurler, I'd be away training like mad trying to get one over on KK. Going on strike wouldn't be in my mind. perhaps I don't know enough about it but these are my views.

• The Selection Committee having been delegated by the board to secure the services of whoever they think is best man for the job to lead their team(s)
  Then players, off their own bat (obviously led by a few individuals within the squad) meet and have their own vote on whether they want that man to manage them and then make public their views (in this case they don't want him)

Quote from: theskull1 on October 24, 2008, 07:26:28 PM
The players should just play Indiana. It's like asking children are they happy with the brocoilli on their plate? Only encourages whinging from spoilt brats. Just eat it and shut up. It'll do them good in the long run even though they mightn't think it at the time.

Quote from: Uladh on October 25, 2008, 03:46:48 PM

Quote from: theskull1 on October 24, 2008, 07:26:28 PM
The players should just play Indiana. It's like asking children are they happy with the brocoilli on their plate? Only encourages whinging from spoilt brats. Just eat it and shut up. It'll do them good in the long run even though they mightn't think it at the time.

You are implying that the county board officers who appoint managers "know better" than the intercounty players involved. the reality is, there's hardly a county board official in the country qualified to analyse or scrutinise the candidates for any managerial post.

My understanding of this so far is:

Cork hurling manager's job up for ratification.
As agreed last year, players have a vote on the appointment.
players vote no to the county board's proposal.

my understanding is that the player's vote is not sufficient on its own to make a difference so McCarthy is appointed?

The players agreed last year in the deal with co board that striking would not be an option in future disputes so those who are talking about them striking don't know what they're talking about?

Quote from: theskull1 on October 25, 2008, 04:42:56 PM
In the interests of the success of the squad going forward can you not see that, any vote taken by the players (and subsequent voting by the player reps) should have been carried out in strict confidence so as not to sour any relationship between themselves and the management team selected. Surely you can see that it will be very difficult for any manager to manage a group of players who you now know hold such a low opinion of you (26-2). How would you feel going in to manage a team knowing that they didn't want you in the first place? Would be pretty difficult.

Quote from: Uladh on October 25, 2008, 04:43:55 PM
I'd agree with most of that Indiana, apart from them being "self opinionated" (not much use if someone else is giving you your opinions), but surely in this instance they have done little more than what they are required to do?
if they feel from trainin and playing under the man that gerald mccarthy is a bit short then that is obviously how they will vote when asked to?

Quote from: theskull1 on October 25, 2008, 05:03:11 PM
Lets not forget Uladh that this would have been a demand of the players during last years settlement. So they are the ones who wanted to have these powers. They will maybe see now the damage that having such powers can have.

Quote from: cicfada on October 25, 2008, 07:28:57 PM
Hi  folks! A Galwayman livin in Cork I am and amazed at another potential Winter of Dispute coming up here! Mc Carthy doesn't impress me at all as   a coach but was the reason that he was voted back so overwhelmingly that there was no alternative to him? The co board said: "Mc carthy is our choice"   and in the absence of an alternative he was voted back? I'll give ya  an alternative..Seanie O'Brien from Midleton for a start! I feel sorry for some of the players, they have given it all but still find themselves streets behind the cats as every other team is as well these days! Mc Carthy may come good next year but on top of that the players have an awful lot of miles on the clock and is there really that much coming through in the underage? The Co Board comes across at times like people more concerned about keeping the players in their place than doing the right thing  for Cork Hurling!

Quote from: orangeman on October 26, 2008, 12:15:55 AM
So this is a storm in a tea cup created by a few posters on this site - there is in fact no problem and Donal Og and all the lads will be out training away in January again ?

Quote from: Reillers on October 26, 2008, 12:18:52 AM

Quote from: orangeman on October 26, 2008, 12:15:55 AM
So this is a storm in a tea cup created by a few posters on this site - there is in fact no problem and Donal Og and all the lads will be out training away in January again ?

No there is a problem, but all I'm saying is that they've done nothing yet but take a vote, they haven't said a word to the media, they've done nothing yet and the only thing they can do is retire.

Quote from: orangeman on October 26, 2008, 12:30:53 AM

Quote from: Reillers on October 26, 2008, 12:18:52 AM

Quote from: orangeman on October 26, 2008, 12:15:55 AM
So this is a storm in a tea cup created by a few posters on this site - there is in fact no problem and Donal Og and all the lads will be out training away in January again ?

No there is a problem, but all I'm saying is that they've done nothing yet but take a vote, they haven't said a word to the media, they've done nothing yet and the only thing they can do is retire.

Retire ?? That's plainly ridiculous - there are any number of teams up and down the country where men are put in charge of teams - the players mightn't like the choice but very few of the players say, ok we'll retire instead of playing for him.

That's a stupid option.

Do the players want Ger Cunningham ???

If so, why do they want him ? Is it just so as they can say, they picked him and not the County Board ?

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on October 26, 2008, 01:06:30 AM
why dont they just let the players manage themselves for a couple of years and see how well they do. That way they can shut the Co. board up for good or, more likely, will teach them that they may not know as much about what it takes to manage a team as they think.

Quote from: The GAA on October 26, 2008, 04:37:13 PM

both of them

Quote from: Uladh on October 26, 2008, 07:13:15 PM

It quite clearly says the vote was by secret ballot, so duress by peers is eliminated.

As in any county, players are entitled to play or not and that decision should be respected without the name calling and blackening the usual suspects on this website.

i know very little of this situation, as i suspect do most of the posters on this thread, so i can't fathom how there can be enough facts anywhere to roll out a witch hunt?

one thing is for certain, the players under any particlar coach are in the best position to assess his capabilities and potential for bringing the team forward. how decent a chap or good a player the coach in question is really shouldn't come into it. it was incumbant upon the cork players to express their opinion when asked by the county board but obviously it is the county board's perogative to do what they wish with that info.

Quote from: Asal Mor on October 27, 2008, 12:24:26 AM
Change is required. "Player Power" has acquired very negative connotations in the GAA, but why should players just shut up and blindly do whatever they are told?

Quote from: Asal Mor on October 27, 2008, 12:24:26 AM
What puzzles me most is that McCarthy hasn't just walked away. What on earth can he hope to achieve at this stage, apart from starting a Civil War on Leeside?

Quote from: theskull1 on October 27, 2008, 10:35:49 AM
Piss off Reillers....you're obviously one of them or close friends with alot of them so I'm not posting to convince you. You mightn't like hearing such views from an Antrim man...sure WTF would I know. But you might want to listen to the opinion of alot of Cork people on AFR for example who are taking the same position as myself. The majority are fed up with this group of players and realise that it is in the best interests of the game that they depart the scene (along with Frank Murphy who they hope will soon retire as well)

Quote from: orangeman on October 27, 2008, 11:21:35 AM
It seems to me that Mc Carthy with a lot of encouragement from certain quarters has decided this :


I have won 6/7 AI titles with Cork - I am as good and probably better than these bunch of lads - they've stuck their necks out now for much too long and last year and haven't delivered. So I'm going to take them on and I'm going to stand my ground this time.

Quote from: The GAA on October 27, 2008, 01:07:07 PM

Quote from: orangeman on October 27, 2008, 11:21:35 AM
It seems to me that Mc Carthy with a lot of encouragement from certain quarters has decided this :


I have won 6/7 AI titles with Cork - I am as good and probably better than these bunch of lads - they've stuck their necks out now for much too long and last year and haven't delivered. So I'm going to take them on and I'm going to stand my ground this time.

How good an intercounty coach is he Orangeman?

Quote from: Asal Mor on October 27, 2008, 03:32:27 PM
Deiseach  -  It doesn't matter if 100% of delegates are behind McCarthy. Delegates can't field puck outs ike Ronan Curran or score points like Ben O Connor. If all these guys retire Cork won't be winning anything with their B team.

Quote from: Asal Mor on October 27, 2008, 03:32:27 PM
This is about the Cork players wanting to win the All Ireland in 2009. Nothing else. Throwing digs that this is about money is pretty childish.

Deiseach  -  It doesn't matter if 100% of delegates are behind McCarthy. Delegates can't field puck outs ike Ronan Curran or score points like Ben O Connor. If all these guys retire Cork won't be winning anything with their B team.

What we are hearing from Cork players in the press is that they have lost 5 championship games in 2 years under McCarthy. Is it unreasonable to want to give themselves the best possible chance of getting back to the top? Second place is unacceptable to these guys. That is why they want change.
These players took a brave stance in 2002 and it paid off spectacularly. They are hugely talented, intelligent sportsmen who are not afraid to speak out, but people seem to think that just because they took action previously, that they should put up and shut up on this occasion. That they spoke out,  shows me these guys still believe they can win All - Irelands. Judging by some of the stuff being fired at them on this board, you can't blame them for thinking "shag this, i'm walking away, enough is enough", and the big loser in all this will be hurling. No more Curran, no more Tom & Jerry, no more Sean Og, no more Ben O Connor etc. I'm a Galway man with no allegiance to Cork, but i LOVE hurling and these guys have given us so many amazing days. That is what is important, not the CCB, "administative processes", "player power" or all that bullsh1t. The 2009 Championship will be a much poorer one  for their absence.

Quote from: Asal Mor on October 27, 2008, 03:32:27 PM
This is about the Cork players wanting to win the All Ireland in 2009. Nothing else. Throwing digs that this is about money is pretty childish.

Deiseach  -  It doesn't matter if 100% of delegates are behind McCarthy.

Quote from: theskull1 on October 27, 2008, 05:17:50 PM

Quote from: Asal Mor on October 27, 2008, 03:32:27 PM
This is about the Cork players wanting to win the All Ireland in 2009. Nothing else. Throwing digs that this is about money is pretty childish.

Deiseach  -  It doesn't matter if 100% of delegates are behind McCarthy.

Oh right. I'm the one being childish  :D

I'll love you to explain to me why you think that it is childish of me to consider even for a second that a GPA led group of individuals would have a financial incentive hidden away from view?

Quote from: theskull1 on October 28, 2008, 12:15:12 AM
:) You some laugh Reillers. You have always been in the pockets of the cork players, so I and alot of others are not prepared to take anything you say as impartial. Hopefully you'll forgive me for gathering what little I do know about this saga from as many sources as possible and have taken the views that I have. I know for sure that we're never going to agree but I'm not going to be silienced by the likes of you from stating which is only my opinion.

BTW I hope you read the comments at the bottom of that article.......made me feel quite in tune with the average GAA man. I'd recommend AFR as well. Hopefully then you might cast your distain at a wider audience

And standing up GAA ideals are far more important than AI success, but I can see why you wouldn't be able to see that, being a cork players man.

I have this image of all these high profile cork players walking out the door whilst everyone else ignores thems

"Thats it, I'm outta here"

silence

"I said I'm leaving and I won't be back"

silence

"I'm serious, I won't be coming back, thats me"

silence

"seriously folks I mean it"

silence

"hello?"

silence

"hello??"

Quote from: AZOffaly on October 28, 2008, 09:34:22 AM
As has been said before, I have very little visibility of the internal workings in Cork, apart from chatting to a few lads down there. What I would say, in a general point no matter what the county, is that these palyers put in savage efforts, and deserve the best preparation they can get. If they feel they cannot or are not being prepared well enough then they should retire. I abhor the notion of a 'strike' in the GAA, but I do support a players right to stop doing something he no longer enjoys.

Quote from: AZOffaly on October 28, 2008, 09:34:22 AM
Lads, I missed all the news this weekend as I was in London, so can somebody succinctly, and without bias on either side let me know what the Jaysus is going on down there.

I was told Donal Óg was in favour of McCarthy (see TBT's response to my ignorant first post), now it appears from Humphries article he wasn't. So 26 players don't want McCarthy, and 2 do. Is that it? But all the CB delegates do want McCarthy?

And the process that was agreed after the last strike was that the players would have 2 reps on the process to appoint a manager but they abstained? Or did they vote no?

And the unhappy players are retiring rather than striking, as per the agreement last year? At least that is a better approach in my view.

As has been said before, I have very little visibility of the internal workings in Cork, apart from chatting to a few lads down there. What I would say, in a general point no matter what the county, is that these palyers put in savage efforts, and deserve the best preparation they can get. If they feel they cannot or are not being prepared well enough then they should retire. I abhor the notion of a 'strike' in the GAA, but I do support a players right to stop doing something he no longer enjoys.

QuoteThe veterans were certain they were doing the right thing. And this wasn't about their own future but the likes of Gardiner and his. Fergal Ryan never played for Cork again after that famous Imperial Hotel press conference, Mark Landers neither. This was about something bigger than all of them. So he signed it, just like everyone else. "Do I ever regret it?" Gardiner said last Thursday. "It was the best thing I ever did. I had the four best years of my career and my life."

Quote from: The GAA on October 28, 2008, 10:51:23 AM
Deiseach, i'd say you are being a bit unfair on the motives of the players here. the message seems to be that the want to win all irelands and kilkenny's dominance is hurting them. to me, they are fighting for the best possible conditions to challenge kilkenny - training, preparation, systems of play, etc. and if all of that is in place and they still fall short then at least they will have given it everything. very often,giving everything to win is not nice business

Quote from: The GAA on October 28, 2008, 11:11:22 AM
certainly, there is a chance that the cork players don't know the best way to maximise their capabilities. maybe there is someone who knows better?
taking all that into account, if i were a cork man i'd go with the players' opinion on the best way forward on the field over the county boards'.

Quote from: The GAA on October 28, 2008, 11:57:38 AM

Their gripe seems to seems to be about the process az. they were advocating gathering opinions, shortlisting, interviewing, etc.
obviously the process that has arrived at McCarthy without and consultation and againt the wishes of the players has to be flawed even to the most biased eye?

there are rumours that the players' have a preferred choice but haven't a clue

Quote from: theskull1 on October 28, 2008, 12:54:56 PM
The militancy of their stance and the lack of respect shown to highly respected individuals around them.

Quote from: The GAA on October 28, 2008, 01:08:09 PM

Ah come on now, is that the best you can come up with.

Quote from: theskull1 on October 28, 2008, 02:25:59 PM

Quote from: theskull1 on October 28, 2008, 12:54:56 PM
The militancy of their stance and the lack of respect shown to highly respected individuals around them.

Quote from: The GAA on October 28, 2008, 01:08:09 PM

Ah come on now, is that the best you can come up with.

Sorry....what have I stated that is not  a good enough reason for me to have a serious objection to what the players are doing? ???

Quote from: The GAA on October 28, 2008, 11:57:38 AM

Their gripe seems to seems to be about the process az. they were advocating gathering opinions, shortlisting, interviewing, etc.
obviously the process that has arrived at McCarthy without and consultation and againt the wishes of the players has to be flawed even to the most biased eye?

there are rumours that the players' have a preferred choice but haven't a clue

Quote from: The GAA on October 28, 2008, 02:48:13 PM

Quote from: theskull1 on October 28, 2008, 02:25:59 PM

Quote from: theskull1 on October 28, 2008, 12:54:56 PM
The militancy of their stance and the lack of respect shown to highly respected individuals around them.

Quote from: The GAA on October 28, 2008, 01:08:09 PM

Ah come on now, is that the best you can come up with.

Sorry....what have I stated that is not  a good enough reason for me to have a serious objection to what the players are doing? ???

you object to the cork players having an opinion?

Quote from: orangeman on October 28, 2008, 03:19:01 PM

Quote from: The GAA on October 28, 2008, 11:57:38 AM

Their gripe seems to seems to be about the process az. they were advocating gathering opinions, shortlisting, interviewing, etc.
obviously the process that has arrived at McCarthy without and consultation and againt the wishes of the players has to be flawed even to the most biased eye?

there are rumours that the players' have a preferred choice but haven't a clue

Then why go around speculating if you haven't whilst accusing others of knowing far less ??

It seems you know a lot more than you're pretending to.  ;)

Quote from: theskull1 on October 28, 2008, 03:28:49 PM

Quote from: The GAA on October 28, 2008, 02:48:13 PM

Quote from: theskull1 on October 28, 2008, 02:25:59 PM

Quote from: theskull1 on October 28, 2008, 12:54:56 PM
The militancy of their stance and the lack of respect shown to highly respected individuals around them.

Quote from: The GAA on October 28, 2008, 01:08:09 PM

Ah come on now, is that the best you can come up with.

Sorry....what have I stated that is not  a good enough reason for me to have a serious objection to what the players are doing? ???

you object to the cork players having an opinion?

I didn't say that GAA and well you know it. Care to answer the question again?

QuoteHowever, for whatever reason, the Cork County Board just seems to have personalities who can stamp their authority very strongly, and have no compunctions about doing so. That tends to grate with the players, who are then always in some sort of angst because of it.

Quote from: The GAA on October 28, 2008, 03:55:02 PM

Quote from: theskull1 on October 28, 2008, 03:28:49 PM

Quote from: The GAA on October 28, 2008, 02:48:13 PM

Quote from: theskull1 on October 28, 2008, 02:25:59 PM

Quote from: theskull1 on October 28, 2008, 12:54:56 PM
The militancy of their stance and the lack of respect shown to highly respected individuals around them.

Quote from: The GAA on October 28, 2008, 01:08:09 PM

Ah come on now, is that the best you can come up with.

Sorry....what have I stated that is not  a good enough reason for me to have a serious objection to what the players are doing? ???

you object to the cork players having an opinion?

I didn't say that GAA and well you know it. Care to answer the question again?

You haven't outlined a reason for your opposition to the cork players' position? you have said it is because of their "militant stance and lack of respect"? you say you aren't objecting to their opinion, am i therefore to deduce that you only object to them expressing it?

Quote from: theskull1 on October 28, 2008, 04:24:04 PM

Quote from: The GAA on October 28, 2008, 03:55:02 PM

Quote from: theskull1 on October 28, 2008, 03:28:49 PM

Quote from: The GAA on October 28, 2008, 02:48:13 PM

Quote from: theskull1 on October 28, 2008, 02:25:59 PM

Quote from: theskull1 on October 28, 2008, 12:54:56 PM
The militancy of their stance and the lack of respect shown to highly respected individuals around them.

Quote from: The GAA on October 28, 2008, 01:08:09 PM

Ah come on now, is that the best you can come up with.

Sorry....what have I stated that is not  a good enough reason for me to have a serious objection to what the players are doing? ???

you object to the cork players having an opinion?

I didn't say that GAA and well you know it. Care to answer the question again?

You haven't outlined a reason for your opposition to the cork players' position? you have said it is because of their "militant stance and lack of respect"? you say you aren't objecting to their opinion, am i therefore to deduce that you only object to them expressing it?

It's one thing to think it, and chat about it to other players to gauge their opinions,  it's quite another thing to verbalize it publically in the way that he cork players have done so that they hopefully (regardless of any offense caused) could make McCarty feel that his position was untenable. It just crosses the line of what is decent respectful behaviour. Hence the "militant stance and lack of respect". Do you get where I'm coming from GAA?

The players may well have a right to feel aggrieved, but it's what they've done with that grievance that is unacceptable.

Quote from: orangeman on October 28, 2008, 04:35:19 PM
All you've done GAA is to try and defend the players from a situation that is becoming increasingly indefensible.

Wake up to the reality that the Cork players have thrown the toys out of the pram again and the parents ( Frank and Co. ) have decided that enough is enough. Gerald Mc Carthy has been treated better by the Cork players.
At least the Cork players had the decency to meet with him but this Mc Carthy is going to be hard to shift.

Quote from: The GAA on October 28, 2008, 04:46:47 PM

Quote from: theskull1 on October 28, 2008, 04:24:04 PM

Quote from: The GAA on October 28, 2008, 03:55:02 PM

Quote from: theskull1 on October 28, 2008, 03:28:49 PM

Quote from: The GAA on October 28, 2008, 02:48:13 PM

Quote from: theskull1 on October 28, 2008, 02:25:59 PM

Quote from: theskull1 on October 28, 2008, 12:54:56 PM
The militancy of their stance and the lack of respect shown to highly respected individuals around them.

Quote from: The GAA on October 28, 2008, 01:08:09 PM

Ah come on now, is that the best you can come up with.

Sorry....what have I stated that is not  a good enough reason for me to have a serious objection to what the players are doing? ???

you object to the cork players having an opinion?

I didn't say that GAA and well you know it. Care to answer the question again?

You haven't outlined a reason for your opposition to the cork players' position? you have said it is because of their "militant stance and lack of respect"? you say you aren't objecting to their opinion, am i therefore to deduce that you only object to them expressing it?

It's one thing to think it, and chat about it to other players to gauge their opinions,  it's quite another thing to verbalize it publically in the way that he cork players have done so that they hopefully (regardless of any offense caused) could make McCarty feel that his position was untenable. It just crosses the line of what is decent respectful behaviour. Hence the "militant stance and lack of respect". Do you get where I'm coming from GAA?

The players may well have a right to feel aggrieved, but it's what they've done with that grievance that is unacceptable.

That is certainly a very fair opinion you hold. however, the point you are missing is that CCB's process requires them to express their opinion. where is the ambiguity in that?
whether you, me or McCarthy likes that opinion surely can't be expected to come into it? the players have done only what the CCB requires of them here.

Quote from: The GAA on October 28, 2008, 04:47:47 PM

Quote from: orangeman on October 28, 2008, 04:35:19 PM
All you've done GAA is to try and defend the players from a situation that is becoming increasingly indefensible.

Wake up to the reality that the Cork players have thrown the toys out of the pram again and the parents ( Frank and Co. ) have decided that enough is enough. Gerald Mc Carthy has been treated better by the Cork players.
At least the Cork players had the decency to meet with him but this Mc Carthy is going to be hard to shift.

OM - nothing you say represents the facts.

you have nothing to add here so move on

Quote from: orangeman on October 28, 2008, 04:35:19 PM
Wake up to the reality that the Cork players have thrown the toys out of the pram again and the parents ( Frank and Co. ) have decided that enough is enough.

Quote from: orangeman on October 28, 2008, 05:27:53 PM
I might not know all the facts of the case  - obviously you are in possession of all the facts - but you've no right to come on here and insult me or my rantings ! I didn't insult you.

I'm not prepared to allow you to bully me into not commenting on this thread - did you start the thread by any chance ??

You're insults are very like the way the Cork panel are behaving - childlike !

So, no, I won't desist as it is very obvious that the truth hurts !

Quote from: orangeman on October 28, 2008, 06:31:24 PM
I've touched a few raw nerves GAA - you're hurting like mad and getting your wee digs in !


So I'll just keep on offering my point of view without insulting you or degrading your posts.


My point of view os clearly offensive to you and the people you represent, but I'm not going to excuse my point of view - the site is a form for debate and opinons and by Jesus, you're not going to stifle my views with the only form of attack you know which are petty insults.

Quote from: orangeman on October 28, 2008, 06:40:21 PM
You can get another dig in after this if you like but back to the thread.


GAA -

Do you think Gerald Mc Carthy has decided something along the lines of, to hell, I've nothing to lose here, I'm going to take this as far as I can take it and test the players resole out ??
I genuinely think he knows he's a beaten docket but out of thickness, pig headedness, hurt and anger, he is going to stand firm for as long as he can.

What do you think ?

Quote from: The GAA on October 28, 2008, 07:30:54 PM

Quote from: orangeman on October 28, 2008, 06:40:21 PM
You can get another dig in after this if you like but back to the thread.


GAA -

Do you think Gerald Mc Carthy has decided something along the lines of, to hell, I've nothing to lose here, I'm going to take this as far as I can take it and test the players resole out ??
I genuinely think he knows he's a beaten docket but out of thickness, pig headedness, hurt and anger, he is going to stand firm for as long as he can.

What do you think ?

i think the county board asked the players for their opinion, it contradicted their own and so the went ahead anyway, as is their right. the biggest casualty is mccarthy, who is not wanted by thse he will be tasked with motivating. i have no idea what is in mccarthy's head.

i'd also be interested to know who you think i "represent".
this'll be good...

Quote from: saffron on October 28, 2008, 09:42:59 PM
Interesting to hear Daithi Regan and Mark Landers on Newstalk about this - Regan got stuck in as usual and insisted that Donal Og was lucky to still be the Cork keeper after his displays this year particularly getting sent off against Galway. Both agreed that Donal Og should retire as should Frank Murphy although Regan insisted there was no chance of this happening. Landers made the point that McCarthy doesnt have the respect of the players and should have gone - he seemed to be blaming the training for Corks failure to stay with Kilkenny (surely a highly optimistic view?). Regan made the point that Kilkenny are a much better side and have brought younger players on and that basically the players should take a good look at themselves - also argued that not everything McCarthy did was wrong and strongly suggested that players should just play.

The interesting thing for me was that Landers seemed to have little sympathy this time - while auguring that McCarthy should have gone he seemed to think this was a step too far. Interesting given his role in 2002. Landers also expected the players not to play for McCarthy and that Cork hurling will be set back 10 years.If Cork implode you'd have to think that 5 in a row is on - at least.

Quote from: orangeman on October 29, 2008, 12:47:23 AM
As usual there's conflicting points of view on who is right and who is wrong.

Quote from: Uladh on October 29, 2008, 07:58:31 AM

Quote from: orangeman on October 29, 2008, 12:47:23 AM
As usual there's conflicting points of view on who is right and who is wrong.

Brilliant.


if we follow the likely routes then we could be looking at McCarthy attempting to field a 3rd or 4th string team to be stubborn.
would they find 20/22 hurlers in cork willing to go against the wishes of the current senior players? i doubt it.

surely a compromise might involve adding a trainer/ coach to McCarthy's set up?

Quote from: bottlethrower7 on October 29, 2008, 11:41:47 AM
is the irony of all this not lost on Cusack? As per usual for the time of year hes at loggerheads with Frank Murphy, while all the while hes turning into the next version of him, albeit with slightly contrasting views. The future of Cork GAA is very grim indeed. Murphy gets too old and steps aside, Cusack will take on the mantle of being the awkward power-mad obstacle for any kind of progress to ever take place.

And regardless of what Cusack's views on the current impasse are, hes single-handedly responsible for how militant the players are. He has a lot to answer for. Hes poisoned the games by his presence and the sooner he disappears back off playing tennis the better for everyone.

Quote from: saffron on October 28, 2008, 09:42:59 PM
Landers also expected the players not to play for McCarthy and that Cork hurling will be set back 10 years.

If Cork implode you'd have to think that 5 in a row is on - at least.

Quote from: Rebel In The Kingdom on October 29, 2008, 03:40:50 PM

One thing strikes me (no pun intended..) & consider this for a moment   - why does only one name go forward for consideration for Cork hurling manager?? It doesn't cross the collective consciousness that an alternative should at least be considered?

Would that be credible in Kerry or Kilkenny if the incumbent manager's record was of a similar nature - no AI appearance, no MF honours - no silverware at all... ... I'm not saying that Gerard McCarthy should not have been selected but best practice (and common sense) dicate that alternatives should have been considered.

Quote from: INDIANA on October 29, 2008, 07:54:11 PM
Reillers until you accept that at least 5 senior players HAVE to step down, that frank murphy and CO Have to retire and gerald mc carthy steps down the problem won't be solved and this debate is going nowhere. But none of the above 3 are negoitiable or mutually exclusive they all have to happen.
None of the above figures are bigger than Cork hurling and until all 3 parties realise this and remove themselves from the process then Cork can get whatever is coming to them as far as I'm concerned. Its not up to the rest of the country to look after your affairs anymore. The problem appears to be a lot of people who a) plain don;t like each other b) are all used to getting their own way.
There is no solution to this except the above, because leaving any of the three parties involved leaves it odds on to rear its ugly head again soon. We're not holding our competitions anymore to suit you guys. So sort it out.

Quote from: Reillers on October 29, 2008, 12:51:51 PM
See the reason why Cork came out all guns all blazzing after Donal Og got sent off is because he has taken so much abuse for them over the years. He's the one with the head above the parapet. He had done so much for them in the past. He's been the hate figure, they all shared the same oppinion but he was the one who gets the crap from the media from fans up and down the country. He's been the hate figure on behalf of the team, despite the fact that everyone else had shared his opinion.

So not only is it out line what you said, it's not true. No one tries to sway anyone on this team, it's all their own oppinion, secret ballads..etc. Donal Og is not at the head of this. He's involved but no more so then the twins, Sean Og, Sully..etc.
He's poisoned the game..that's just insulting to someone who's given so much to the game. So much to his club, and county and hurling in general.
He's got nothing to do with how millitant the players are. They all think for themselves, you're naive if you think that it's Donal Og leading them by a string. They do things right.
They are putting no pressure on the kids in the squad, but lets just say that the younger players have been getting phone calls suggesting that they should go back.

He's not influencing anyone the sooner people realise that then maybe the sooner people will except that it's not just one person. It's a squad of 30 players.

Quote from: cornafean on October 29, 2008, 05:21:25 PM

Quote from: Rebel In The Kingdom on October 29, 2008, 03:40:50 PM

One thing strikes me (no pun intended..) & consider this for a moment   - why does only one name go forward for consideration for Cork hurling manager?? It doesn't cross the collective consciousness that an alternative should at least be considered?

Would that be credible in Kerry or Kilkenny if the incumbent manager's record was of a similar nature - no AI appearance, no MF honours - no silverware at all... ... I'm not saying that Gerard McCarthy should not have been selected but best practice (and common sense) dicate that alternatives should have been considered.

But it is quite normal and commonplace for sitting managers to be returned unopposed for another term? And presumably any club in any county that wants to nominate a challenger for a management position is entitled to do so, even if an incumbent holds the position already? Even Kilkenny and Kerry have been known to retain managers in years when they won nothing.

Quote from: cornafean on October 29, 2008, 05:21:25 PM

Quote from: Rebel In The Kingdom on October 29, 2008, 03:40:50 PM

One thing strikes me (no pun intended..) & consider this for a moment   - why does only one name go forward for consideration for Cork hurling manager?? It doesn't cross the collective consciousness that an alternative should at least be considered?

Would that be credible in Kerry or Kilkenny if the incumbent manager's record was of a similar nature - no AI appearance, no MF honours - no silverware at all... ... I'm not saying that Gerard McCarthy should not have been selected but best practice (and common sense) dicate that alternatives should have been considered.

But it is quite normal and commonplace for sitting managers to be returned unopposed for another term? And presumably any club in any county that wants to nominate a challenger for a management position is entitled to do so, even if an incumbent holds the position already? Even Kilkenny and Kerry have been known to retain managers in years when they won nothing.

Quote from: bottlethrower7 on October 30, 2008, 10:04:54 AM

Quote from: Reillers on October 29, 2008, 12:51:51 PM
See the reason why Cork came out all guns all blazzing after Donal Og got sent off is because he has taken so much abuse for them over the years. He's the one with the head above the parapet. He had done so much for them in the past. He's been the hate figure, they all shared the same oppinion but he was the one who gets the crap from the media from fans up and down the country. He's been the hate figure on behalf of the team, despite the fact that everyone else had shared his opinion.

So not only is it out line what you said, it's not true. No one tries to sway anyone on this team, it's all their own oppinion, secret ballads..etc. Donal Og is not at the head of this. He's involved but no more so then the twins, Sean Og, Sully..etc.
He's poisoned the game..that's just insulting to someone who's given so much to the game. So much to his club, and county and hurling in general.
He's got nothing to do with how millitant the players are. They all think for themselves, you're naive if you think that it's Donal Og leading them by a string. They do things right.
They are putting no pressure on the kids in the squad, but lets just say that the younger players have been getting phone calls suggesting that they should go back.

He's not influencing anyone the sooner people realise that then maybe the sooner people will except that it's not just one person. It's a squad of 30 players.

don't get me wrong here. I'm fully aware of the commitment Donal Og has given to Cork hurling on the field, and I think its nothing less than admirable. And whether hes a hate figure or not has nothing whatsoever to do with that. If indeed Donal Og is a hate figure (your words, not mine), its because of off-field antics. Its because of his obvious militancy (and don't make me laugh with this players can think for themselves rubbish - none of this would be going on but for him), its because of his wanting to make GAA a professional sport (hence my 'poison the game' comments which were from out of line in my opinion), its because of things like socks-down during the pre-match parade antics. I read the story about Mark Landers calling for Cusack to step down. Mark Landers is a man I'd have whole-hearted respect for. He was at the helm for the first players strike way back when, and how even hes calling for Cusack to cop himself on.

Donal Og not influencing people? Thats the most ludicrous thing I've heard in ages.

But that all aside, heres a suggestion to resolve all this. Let the players do what they want. If Cork can't field in next year's championship, so be it, let them give a walkover. Lets see how public opinion in Cork is then, and lets see the impact it has. The actions of the Cork players can only succeed if they have public sympathies. One feels that they don't have them at the minute and whatever sympathies they do have are quickly dwindling. Cork are a proud GAA county. Cork is full of people steeped in the traditions of the organisation. Cork people know what makes the GAA unique. Cork people know what can harm those values and hence the organisation. Cork people aren't stupid and know that certain players (spearheaded by one in particular) are seeking to undermine those values.

What would the great Christy Ring and Jack Lynch think of this one wonders?

And I commend Nicky Brennan for saying the GAA will stay out of this. Its up to Cork to sort this themselves once and for all. A satisfactory resolution can't but involve the stepping down of both players and county board officials. For the sake of all the decent GAA people in Cork, I hope that happens sooner rather than later.

Quote from: orangeman on October 30, 2008, 10:35:39 AM
Can anyone post the article in yesterday's Independent ?? - a very well written article which gives fair and equal treatment to both sides.

Quote from: Reillers on October 30, 2008, 10:53:20 AM
Besides what the media SPECULATES on. How do you know?? About Donal Og, a subject some seem vastly knowledgeable on untill I ask them for proof.

Quote from: bottlethrower7 on October 30, 2008, 12:20:49 PM

Quote from: Reillers on October 30, 2008, 10:53:20 AM
Besides what the media SPECULATES on. How do you know?? About Donal Og, a subject some seem vastly knowledgeable on untill I ask them for proof.

maybe its something to do with his position in the GPA, an organisation that the current Cork panel are very immersed in right now.

It would almost be tantamount to dereliction of duty were he not to 'advise' the players.

Quote from: The GAA on October 30, 2008, 01:27:11 PM

Quote from: bottlethrower7 on October 30, 2008, 12:20:49 PM

Quote from: Reillers on October 30, 2008, 10:53:20 AM
Besides what the media SPECULATES on. How do you know?? About Donal Og, a subject some seem vastly knowledgeable on untill I ask them for proof.

maybe its something to do with his position in the GPA, an organisation that the current Cork panel are very immersed in right now.

It would almost be tantamount to dereliction of duty were he not to 'advise' the players.

Should any player voted into a position of responsibility with the GPA automatically retire from playing?

Quote from: The GAA on October 30, 2008, 04:09:16 PM

All bar cusack are former players i think - dj, dessie, ryan, etc. how could former players be accused of having a personal agenda?

Quote from: Reillers on October 30, 2008, 04:44:59 PM
Oh my God..yes, yes that's what it's all about. ::) ::)

This is bigger then bloody Kilkenny, this is the team wanting to have a better chance at competing for an AI. Who's better will be settled on the pitch but they just want the best chance of going at it.
But it's bigger then that, the board is killing hurling in Cork, and will continue to do so until someone, the players apparently, stand up to them.

Quote from: Reillers on October 30, 2008, 04:44:59 PM
This is bigger then bloody Kilkenny, this is the team wanting to have a better chance at competing for an AI. Who's better will be settled on the pitch but they just want the best chance of going at it.
But it's bigger then that, the board is killing hurling in Cork, and will continue to do so until someone, the players apparently, stand up to them.

Quote from: Reillers on October 30, 2008, 05:52:07 PM
The team says the grass is green, Gerald says the grass is blue. And we go around and around in a circle until somebody..(ie. the board) says or does something.

Quote from: Reillers on October 30, 2008, 05:59:08 PM
That's not the point. Who is better will be settled on the playing field, but Cork just want the best man in place possible to give them a chance to challenge.
They don't feel that the right man is in place to do so, we all know he's not the right man. Yet the board put him back in anyway.

Quote from: orangeman on October 30, 2008, 06:14:53 PM

Quote from: Reillers on October 30, 2008, 05:59:08 PM
That's not the point. Who is better will be settled on the playing field, but Cork just want the best man in place possible to give them a chance to challenge.
They don't feel that the right man is in place to do so, we all know he's not the right man. Yet the board put him back in anyway.

Who is we ??  ;)

Quote from: orangeman on October 30, 2008, 05:54:47 PM
'I have regrettably come to the conclusion that there is a pre-disposition to conflict among a very small number of Cork players,' he added.


Is this fair comment ?

Quote from: EddieMerx on October 30, 2008, 06:22:56 PM

Quote from: orangeman on October 30, 2008, 06:14:53 PM

Quote from: Reillers on October 30, 2008, 05:59:08 PM
That's not the point. Who is better will be settled on the playing field, but Cork just want the best man in place possible to give them a chance to challenge.
They don't feel that the right man is in place to do so, we all know he's not the right man. Yet the board put him back in anyway.

Who is we ??  ;)

Reillers and the other 20 something players ;)

Quote from: Reillers on October 30, 2008, 07:31:28 PM
Kept outta it??

Farrell supports rebel Rebels

GPA chief executive Dessie Farrell has thrown his weight behind the Cork hurlers amid the latest controversy threatening GAA in the Rebel County.

Gerald McCarthy's continuation in the role of manager of the senior hurlers has left almost the entire panel seemingly willing to walk away from involvement with the team in 2009, forcing McCarthy to call the situation another 'strike' and leaving him essentially looking for a new pool of players.

Players have revealed their anger at their lack of input into the appointment of next year's manager and have been openly critical of playing legend McCarthy's abilities in the role, and Farrell says they have a right to be angry if they were ignored.

"A short list of candidates was to be drawn up and interviewed, but that was never the case, " Farrell was quoted as saying by The Irish Mirror.

"The players have taken umbrage with this. The process was completely flawed and, in effect, it was only a cosmetic exercise to have the players involved."

Following last year's footballers strike, players in Cork are again feeling public ire and not all will agree with Farrell's support for them, not least Rebels County Board PRO Bob Ryan, who retorted to the Dubliner's quotes by saying: "Dessie Farrell's claims are absolutely and totally untrue.

"The board will be commenting in full at a later stage. If the process was so flawed, how come there were five meetings – and the players' representatives attended all of those meetings? "

Quote from: turk on October 31, 2008, 10:25:54 AM
I've asked it before

Who do the Cork players want as manager?

Quote from: The GAA on October 31, 2008, 10:45:33 AM

The most glaringly obvious point i'd have to make reading the last couple of pages is that noone, certainly not onlookers from other counties, are in a position to assess whether gerald is a good intercounty manager. to argue that the cork players don't know whether he is good enough is ridiculous. these fellas have played club, fitzgibbon, county minor, county u21 and senior hurling. they have been exposed to all standards of coaching and mangement and most of them have all ireland medals. undeniably they are in the very best position to assess gerald's capacity to progress and prepare the team.

Quote from: The GAA on October 31, 2008, 11:06:21 AM

With respect bt, that's rubbish. surely even the most biased onlooker here can admit that the players don't rate him as a coach?

by what logichave you arrived at the conclusion that they don't want him any reasons other than pure coaching ones?

QuoteAt the start Gerald didn't want it and they didn't want him. They had a winning formula, one that facilitated them to become the first Munster county in over 60 years to contest four consecutive All Ireland finals; not even Cody's Kilkenny had managed that. But then when he had accepted it they had to accept him. Along with Jimmy Barry Murphy he was the county's most decorated player since Ring. At his first meeting with them he told them only the managerial faces had changed; the managerial systems would be merely tweaked, not dismantled; he was into evolution, not revolution.

The old doubts though weren't long resurfacing. When the team showed up at Lawlor's Hotel in Dungarvan before a Waterford Crystal game that January, their pre-match meal consisted of a plate of sandwiches loaded with butter and mayonnaise. Under O'Grady and Allen, pre-match food would have consisted of chicken, pasta, yoghurt and fruit, the kind of preparatory detail which the cyberspace cynics bash the likes of Cusack and Ó hAilpín for yet laud the likes of O'Connell and O'Gara for.

One drill was of particular concern to the players. Six men in one line facing infield, six in another facing them, between them, six poles in a straight line for them to solo zig-zag through. Player One goes. Solo in open space for a few yards, negotiate the six poles, solo in some more open space for a few yards, pass the ball off to the man first in line and then go back to the end. Players felt they were standing around idle for too long waiting for their next go.

When the players convened a meeting last October to discuss the county board's controversial decision to remove the next football manager's right to appoint his own selectors, the topic of whether to remove McCarthy as hurling manager was floated. In the end, they agreed it would be premature to move against him, especially as McCarthy, to his credit, had initiated a review meeting with player representatives in which he was open to change and ideas.

The Sunday after this year's Munster semi-final defeat to Tipperary though, the notion was touted again at a meeting of the players reps. Training had improved but only marginally so. They also found his relationship and familiarity with too many players odd to say the least.

They hadn't deserved to beat Kilkenny, either on the day or in the lead up to it. That summer Gerald had instructed the players to be on the field for training at 10 to seven every night yet too often he wasn't there. And when it had started, it was still too pedestrian and that was reflected in their hurling. The sharpness wasn't there to compete with Kilkenny.

"People say the players want to run the show, that they won't listen to anyone,'" says one player. "But under [Donal O'] Grady, we were more than happy to do what we were told. It was reflected on the field. We didn't have the same confidence in Gerald's coaching."

It was a judgement which they didn't want or think they'd have to declare. The mood within the county in September was that Gerald would get out after an average if respectable stint, but when the two players representatives, Cusack and Ó hAilpín, met with the five other members of the selection committee at a meeting in Páirc Uí Chaoimh on Friday, 10 October, Gerald's was the only name the five raised. At one point county chairman Mick Dolan left to establish by phone if McCarthy was interested and McCarthy verified he was.

Quote from: The GAA on October 31, 2008, 12:06:47 PM

Some of that doesn't make sense bt.

obviously O'Grady was the messiah for them and set in place standards and training that han't been matched since in a time where even standing still is losing ground.
like you, i don't know what happened with allen but i suspect that he just found himself a bit short and moved on. an excert from kieran shannon's piece on the situation accurately sets out the players' position on gerald:

QuoteAt the start Gerald didn't want it and they didn't want him. They had a winning formula, one that facilitated them to become the first Munster county in over 60 years to contest four consecutive All Ireland finals; not even Cody's Kilkenny had managed that. But then when he had accepted it they had to accept him. Along with Jimmy Barry Murphy he was the county's most decorated player since Ring. At his first meeting with them he told them only the managerial faces had changed; the managerial systems would be merely tweaked, not dismantled; he was into evolution, not revolution.

The old doubts though weren't long resurfacing. When the team showed up at Lawlor's Hotel in Dungarvan before a Waterford Crystal game that January, their pre-match meal consisted of a plate of sandwiches loaded with butter and mayonnaise. Under O'Grady and Allen, pre-match food would have consisted of chicken, pasta, yoghurt and fruit, the kind of preparatory detail which the cyberspace cynics bash the likes of Cusack and Ó hAilpín for yet laud the likes of O'Connell and O'Gara for.

One drill was of particular concern to the players. Six men in one line facing infield, six in another facing them, between them, six poles in a straight line for them to solo zig-zag through. Player One goes. Solo in open space for a few yards, negotiate the six poles, solo in some more open space for a few yards, pass the ball off to the man first in line and then go back to the end. Players felt they were standing around idle for too long waiting for their next go.

When the players convened a meeting last October to discuss the county board's controversial decision to remove the next football manager's right to appoint his own selectors, the topic of whether to remove McCarthy as hurling manager was floated. In the end, they agreed it would be premature to move against him, especially as McCarthy, to his credit, had initiated a review meeting with player representatives in which he was open to change and ideas.

The Sunday after this year's Munster semi-final defeat to Tipperary though, the notion was touted again at a meeting of the players reps. Training had improved but only marginally so. They also found his relationship and familiarity with too many players odd to say the least.

They hadn't deserved to beat Kilkenny, either on the day or in the lead up to it. That summer Gerald had instructed the players to be on the field for training at 10 to seven every night yet too often he wasn't there. And when it had started, it was still too pedestrian and that was reflected in their hurling. The sharpness wasn't there to compete with Kilkenny.

"People say the players want to run the show, that they won't listen to anyone,'" says one player. "But under [Donal O'] Grady, we were more than happy to do what we were told. It was reflected on the field. We didn't have the same confidence in Gerald's coaching."

It was a judgement which they didn't want or think they'd have to declare. The mood within the county in September was that Gerald would get out after an average if respectable stint, but when the two players representatives, Cusack and Ó hAilpín, met with the five other members of the selection committee at a meeting in Páirc Uí Chaoimh on Friday, 10 October, Gerald's was the only name the five raised. At one point county chairman Mick Dolan left to establish by phone if McCarthy was interested and McCarthy verified he was.

That certainly destroys the notion that the players had been happy with gerald until very recently

Quote from: bottlethrower7 on October 31, 2008, 10:35:29 AM

Quote from: turk on October 31, 2008, 10:25:54 AM
I've asked it before

Who do the Cork players want as manager?

they want another John Allen type figure. Basically, someone who will sit back and let the players do what they want.

what they don't want is a manager with knowledge of the game, opinions on the game, and their own methods and ways of doing things.

I think we have come to the crux of the issue over the past few posts though. This is about finding a scapegoat for either losing to Kilkenny/not winning an all-Ireland this year (take your pick). The players seem quite willing to play the blame game and point the finger in every direction except their own.

And how can anyone say Gerald MacCarthy is a bad manager? The only basis I've heard to argue that case is that he didn't know what club Timmy McCarthy was from. So what. All that should concern Gerald Mac is what Timmy does for Cork, and nothing else. Gerald Mac has pedigree. He put the foundations in place for the great Waterford teams we've seen this decade. He has the all-Ireland medals. And hes genuinely a nice bloke (yes, I've met him). I think his statement is excellent and hits the nail on the head. But I feel sorry that hes become the one who has to take this challenge to the players. Either way he will end up not managing Cork again. The bigger choice hes faced with is, do I walk away now, or do I stand up to the players and try to make things better for whoever does take over.

And are the players completely stupid? Do they think anyone in their right mind will want the Cork job after this?

Quote from: The GAA on October 31, 2008, 12:43:20 PM

I've left all the specific examples shannon cites of poor management by McCarthy.

what aspects of shannon's artcile do you feel is inaccurate then?

Quote from: Reillers on October 31, 2008, 12:58:30 PM

Quote from: bottlethrower7 on October 31, 2008, 10:35:29 AM

Quote from: turk on October 31, 2008, 10:25:54 AM
I've asked it before

Who do the Cork players want as manager?

they want another John Allen type figure. Basically, someone who will sit back and let the players do what they want.

what they don't want is a manager with knowledge of the game, opinions on the game, and their own methods and ways of doing things.

I think we have come to the crux of the issue over the past few posts though. This is about finding a scapegoat for either losing to Kilkenny/not winning an all-Ireland this year (take your pick). The players seem quite willing to play the blame game and point the finger in every direction except their own.

And how can anyone say Gerald MacCarthy is a bad manager? The only basis I've heard to argue that case is that he didn't know what club Timmy McCarthy was from. So what. All that should concern Gerald Mac is what Timmy does for Cork, and nothing else. Gerald Mac has pedigree. He put the foundations in place for the great Waterford teams we've seen this decade. He has the all-Ireland medals. And hes genuinely a nice bloke (yes, I've met him). I think his statement is excellent and hits the nail on the head. But I feel sorry that hes become the one who has to take this challenge to the players. Either way he will end up not managing Cork again. The bigger choice hes faced with is, do I walk away now, or do I stand up to the players and try to make things better for whoever does take over.

And are the players completely stupid? Do they think anyone in their right mind will want the Cork job after this?

You think that Donal O Grady let them do what they want, or even Allen for that matter. You really are dellusioned.
They didn't let them do what they wanted but they were, under Allen allowed discuss it. Under that set up of O Grady and Allen things worked extremley well.

This is NOT about finding a scape goat. This is about a manager with a very, very poor record with Cork as manager.
Poor tactics, poor selections, poor poor training.
As a player he has medals and as a manager way back when like 20 years ago, he did well.
But now, now he's been poor, even the most idiotic, simple fans can see that he is a bad manager.

They know they weren't good enough, but they all know that they are not getting the best chance under Gerald. Everyone can see that, any half fan with a brain.
How is not knowing what club Timmy Mac played for not important.

He's, as good as a player and manager he WAS, that doesn't make him a good Cork manager.

That's clear to even the most half brained simple GAA fan.

His record has been appauling with the Cork scene. I know it, everyone knows it, and the board know it. The ONLY reason he was put back in is because the board knew full well that a few senior players would leave. Gerald is only a pawn in this. They will wash their hands of him in a second and wont look back. Just as soon as the senior 2002 group are gone Gerald mac wiill be out the door in a split second. It's just a pity that he doesn't realise that.
The board know that he's a bad manager, but they keep him in anyway, to use him and then as soon as things go pear shape, which they will, he'll be out the door in a second and the board will wash their hands of him and squirm out of the mess that they've created themselves.

Gerald Mac is a bad manager, and the only reason he's been kept in the job is because he's being used as a pawn in the boards pathetic little game.

Quote from: The GAA on October 31, 2008, 01:11:53 PM

It's interesting to note that you believe anyone who can see both sides of the argument must be a cork hurler. is it so difficult to fathom that sensible people can form  thtir own opinion?

Quote from: The GAA on October 31, 2008, 12:06:47 PM

Some of that doesn't make sense bt.

obviously O'Grady was the messiah for them and set in place standards and training that han't been matched since in a time where even standing still is losing ground.
like you, i don't know what happened with allen but i suspect that he just found himself a bit short and moved on. an excert from kieran shannon's piece on the situation accurately sets out the players' position on gerald:

(shannon excerpt)

That certainly destroys the notion that the players had been happy with gerald until very recently

Quote from: Reillers on October 31, 2008, 12:58:30 PM


You think that Donal O Grady let them do what they want, or even Allen for that matter. You really are dellusioned.
They didn't let them do what they wanted but they were, under Allen allowed discuss it. Under that set up of O Grady and Allen things worked extremley well.

This is NOT about finding a scape goat. This is about a manager with a very, very poor record with Cork as manager.
Poor tactics, poor selections, poor poor training.
As a player he has medals and as a manager way back when like 20 years ago, he did well.
But now, now he's been poor, even the most idiotic, simple fans can see that he is a bad manager.

They know they weren't good enough, but they all know that they are not getting the best chance under Gerald. Everyone can see that, any half fan with a brain.
How is not knowing what club Timmy Mac played for not important.

He's, as good as a player and manager he WAS, that doesn't make him a good Cork manager.

That's clear to even the most half brained simple GAA fan.

His record has been appauling with the Cork scene. I know it, everyone knows it, and the board know it. The ONLY reason he was put back in is because the board knew full well that a few senior players would leave. Gerald is only a pawn in this. They will wash their hands of him in a second and wont look back. Just as soon as the senior 2002 group are gone Gerald mac wiill be out the door in a split second. It's just a pity that he doesn't realise that.
The board know that he's a bad manager, but they keep him in anyway, to use him and then as soon as things go pear shape, which they will, he'll be out the door in a second and the board will wash their hands of him and squirm out of the mess that they've created themselves.

Gerald Mac is a bad manager, and the only reason he's been kept in the job is because he's being used as a pawn in the boards pathetic little game.

Quote from: bottlethrower7 on October 31, 2008, 01:29:09 PM

Quote from: Reillers on October 31, 2008, 12:58:30 PM


You think that Donal O Grady let them do what they want, or even Allen for that matter. You really are dellusioned.
They didn't let them do what they wanted but they were, under Allen allowed discuss it. Under that set up of O Grady and Allen things worked extremley well.

This is NOT about finding a scape goat. This is about a manager with a very, very poor record with Cork as manager.
Poor tactics, poor selections, poor poor training.
As a player he has medals and as a manager way back when like 20 years ago, he did well.
But now, now he's been poor, even the most idiotic, simple fans can see that he is a bad manager.

They know they weren't good enough, but they all know that they are not getting the best chance under Gerald. Everyone can see that, any half fan with a brain.
How is not knowing what club Timmy Mac played for not important.

He's, as good as a player and manager he WAS, that doesn't make him a good Cork manager.

That's clear to even the most half brained simple GAA fan.

His record has been appauling with the Cork scene. I know it, everyone knows it, and the board know it. The ONLY reason he was put back in is because the board knew full well that a few senior players would leave. Gerald is only a pawn in this. They will wash their hands of him in a second and wont look back. Just as soon as the senior 2002 group are gone Gerald mac wiill be out the door in a split second. It's just a pity that he doesn't realise that.
The board know that he's a bad manager, but they keep him in anyway, to use him and then as soon as things go pear shape, which they will, he'll be out the door in a second and the board will wash their hands of him and squirm out of the mess that they've created themselves.

Gerald Mac is a bad manager, and the only reason he's been kept in the job is because he's being used as a pawn in the boards pathetic little game.

no, O'Grady most certainly didn't let them do what they wanted. Allen did, I think that is quite evident.

And I think the rest of your post backs up what I said. He is not deemed to be a good fit for Cork (as decided by the players), but I'd continue to argue that doesn't necessarily make him a bad manager. Cork have had more success with worse managers (Allen to name but one).

Quote from: orangeman on October 31, 2008, 01:31:34 PM
Is it a case simply that some of the great Cork players have come or are coming to the end of the rope ??

Quote from: antoinse on October 31, 2008, 02:30:38 PM
The whole players thing is a total load of rubbish. Typical GPA, remain quiet throughout the championship because they know they would get their asses whacked and once it is over they encourage issues to draw attention. How fitting Dessie is now starting to speak out.

Take your GPA away with yourself and play your own little games in Australia or Dubai

Quote from: Uladh on November 01, 2008, 11:54:30 AM

Nothing like debating the issues there lads

:-\

Quote from: milltown row on November 03, 2008, 08:52:09 PM
good article

on another note , noticed michael Cussin playing for Sarsfields, played well. when did he last play senior county hurling

Quote from: theskull1 on November 04, 2008, 12:13:59 AM
Bad article then for the same reasons  :P

All journalists will ensure they don't bite the hand that feeds them (i.e. The players)......one needs to keep this in mind at all times when reading these articles

Quote from: The GAA on November 04, 2008, 10:43:03 AM

Releasing confidential internal sports psyhologist's assessments is highly unethical and lacking even the slightest degre of integrity.

Quote from: theskull1 on November 04, 2008, 11:36:49 AM

Quote from: The GAA on November 04, 2008, 10:43:03 AM

Releasing confidential internal sports psyhologist's assessments is highly unethical and lacking even the slightest degre of integrity.

I'd tend to agree with you GAA. It is a shame though that it came into the public gaze as a response to the fierce attacks on the capabilities of the incumbent manager by the players/journalists. Still doesn't make it right but it needs to be put in context to make people see that there was alot of provacation by the players who no doubt are  SO OFFENDED at such material being realeased now.

Quote from: The GAA on November 04, 2008, 12:47:14 PM

Shows those that leaked this confidential info in a poor light and answers the question a to whethe they have the good of cork hurling at heart

Quote from: billy the kid on November 04, 2008, 02:05:19 PM
The Cork Hurlers are making themselves a joke. If they dont want to play for the manager then dont. It happens in club and county teams all over the country all the time. The player decides they dont want to play for a manager and dont play for the rest of the year or until that manager moves on or call it a day altogether. But not in the world of these Cork Prima Donnas, oh no they expect the manager to leave and they expect the county board to let them pick the manager.

I always had loads of respect for Sean Og, the O Connors and Dean, but they are tarnishing their legacy to our great National sport by again behaving like spoilt brats and I like many others, want to see the back of them now.  It would be best for all concerned if they just walked away if they arent going to support the manager. Have they given no thought to whats good for Cork Hurling?

Of course not. Just like the Cork footballers last year they only care about themselves and what suits them best and are drunk on self importance and ego.

Bunch of W**KS.

Quote from: billy the kid on November 04, 2008, 02:05:19 PM
The Cork Hurlers are making themselves a joke. If they dont want to play for the manager then dont. It happens in club and county teams all over the country all the time. The player decides they dont want to play for a manager and dont play for the rest of the year or until that manager moves on or call it a day altogether. But not in the world of these Cork Prima Donnas, oh no they expect the manager to leave and they expect the county board to let them pick the manager.

I always had loads of respect for Sean Og, the O Connors and Dean, but they are tarnishing their legacy to our great National sport by again behaving like spoilt brats and I like many others, want to see the back of them now.  It would be best for all concerned if they just walked away if they arent going to support the manager. Have they given no thought to whats good for Cork Hurling?

Of course not. Just like the Cork footballers last year they only care about themselves and what suits them best and are drunk on self importance and ego.

Bunch of W**KS.

Quote from: The GAA on November 04, 2008, 03:21:02 PM
one from a highly respected cork hurling man, who is in an eminently better position than any of us to comment on this saga.

Quote from: The GAA on November 04, 2008, 04:13:46 PM

You'd consider yourself to be in a better position to comment on the subject matter and the protagonists than allen?

Quote from: cornafean on November 04, 2008, 03:34:19 PM

Quote from: The GAA on November 04, 2008, 03:21:02 PM
one from a highly respected cork hurling man, who is in an eminently better position than any of us to comment on this saga.

Really? My own perception that John Allen is too close to the players to be considered independent in the context of this discussion.

Quote from: The GAA on November 04, 2008, 03:21:02 PM

Quote from: billy the kid on November 04, 2008, 02:05:19 PM
The Cork Hurlers are making themselves a joke. If they dont want to play for the manager then dont. It happens in club and county teams all over the country all the time. The player decides they dont want to play for a manager and dont play for the rest of the year or until that manager moves on or call it a day altogether. But not in the world of these Cork Prima Donnas, oh no they expect the manager to leave and they expect the county board to let them pick the manager.

I always had loads of respect for Sean Og, the O Connors and Dean, but they are tarnishing their legacy to our great National sport by again behaving like spoilt brats and I like many others, want to see the back of them now.  It would be best for all concerned if they just walked away if they arent going to support the manager. Have they given no thought to whats good for Cork Hurling?

Of course not. Just like the Cork footballers last year they only care about themselves and what suits them best and are drunk on self importance and ego.

Bunch of W**KS.

that's probably the most ignorant, ill informed post i've ever read. you've just read (actually you proabably didn't) two articles. one from the most respected sports journalists in the country and one from a highly respected cork hurling man, who is in an eminently better position than any of us to comment on this saga. both articulated their belief that wherever your support lies, it shouldn't be in question that these men are acting for the long term good of cork hurling and certanly not their own personal gain. i really despair that contributors to this forum cannot take the time to understand issues in important situations like this and measure their contributions rather than embarrassing themselves and devaluing the forum for those who wish to accurately debate, disagree and agree on football & hurling topics.

Quote from: The GAA on November 04, 2008, 04:13:46 PM

You'd consider yourself to be in a better position to comment on the subject matter and the protagonists than allen?

Quote from: billy the kid on November 04, 2008, 04:26:18 PM

Quote from: The GAA on November 04, 2008, 03:21:02 PM

Quote from: billy the kid on November 04, 2008, 02:05:19 PM
The Cork Hurlers are making themselves a joke. If they dont want to play for the manager then dont. It happens in club and county teams all over the country all the time. The player decides they dont want to play for a manager and dont play for the rest of the year or until that manager moves on or call it a day altogether. But not in the world of these Cork Prima Donnas, oh no they expect the manager to leave and they expect the county board to let them pick the manager.

I always had loads of respect for Sean Og, the O Connors and Dean, but they are tarnishing their legacy to our great National sport by again behaving like spoilt brats and I like many others, want to see the back of them now.  It would be best for all concerned if they just walked away if they arent going to support the manager. Have they given no thought to whats good for Cork Hurling?

Of course not. Just like the Cork footballers last year they only care about themselves and what suits them best and are drunk on self importance and ego.

Bunch of W**KS.

that's probably the most ignorant, ill informed post i've ever read. you've just read (actually you proabably didn't) two articles. one from the most respected sports journalists in the country and one from a highly respected cork hurling man, who is in an eminently better position than any of us to comment on this saga. both articulated their belief that wherever your support lies, it shouldn't be in question that these men are acting for the long term good of cork hurling and certanly not their own personal gain. i really despair that contributors to this forum cannot take the time to understand issues in important situations like this and measure their contributions rather than embarrassing themselves and devaluing the forum for those who wish to accurately debate, disagree and agree on football & hurling topics.

Look Here Donal Og, why is it that opinions devalue this forum when they are different to yours? You harp on about debate, agree and disagree, yet because I disagree with you and your GPA chums My opinion doesnt count? Thats the sort of GPA elitism that has distanced yous from grassroots GAA members all over the country. It would be great to know how much (or little) support your strike actions (again) have from supporters in your own county.

And for the record, the big embarrassment is the Cork players going on strike again, it embarrasses the hell out of GAA people all over the country and the players themselves.  The current Cork senior hurling panel contains players who could have been remembered long after they retire for the great players they have been, Sean Og, the O Connors, The Rock, Gardiner and Dean are all living legends but they are in danger of tarnishing that by listening to You Donal Og and your Lime light junkie chum Farrel and trying to run the team and play on it.  

Quote from: theskull1 on November 04, 2008, 06:57:30 PM
I can't remember anyone every addressing themselves as the spokensperson for the GAA so I don't know WTF you are talking about. Once again a "I'll not have a bad word spoke about the players" post.

Everybody I speak to are fed up with the militancy of the players and have it in for them as they appear to be so concerned about themselves only and "their careers" rather than taking their place within the wider GAA community. I do not bow and scrape to county players huffs and nor should anyone else. Cork will be looked after by their CB better than 95% of teams in Ireland yet "they" believe they have the right to rebel against the democratic vote and then disgrace themselves as they tell the world that management inadequicies WAS the reason why "they" were not succeeding. There is obviously an issue at CB level which needs to be resolved but not at the cost of giving into such behaviour and threats from the players. I fully support any attempt by the CCB and Gerard McCarthy in their attempt to stand up to these individuals.

When are you boys going to admit that the players response to what they have seen as poor form by the CCB has been reprehensible?

If you are prepared to see that then you might understand (don't say you have to agree with it) why people have took the stance they have taken

Quotecan't remember anyone every addressing themselves as the spokensperson for the GAA so I don't know WTF you are talking about. Once again a "I'll not have a bad word spoke about the players" post.

Quote from: Reillers on November 04, 2008, 07:23:37 PM

Quote from: theskull1 on November 04, 2008, 06:57:30 PM
Cork will be looked after by their CB better than 95% of teams in Ireland

That sentance right there sums up your lack of knowledge about Cork hurling and highlights how clueless you are and your real agenda, because that's the biggest load of bull I've read.
Any true hurling fan could never suppoirt the board if they had any shaddow of a clue.

At least I know now and wont bother replying or fighting what are posts just to whinge about players when you have zero facts or knowledge or history, nothing I mean nothing. That sentence..unbelievable.

Quote from: theskull1 on November 04, 2008, 09:14:48 PM

Quote from: Reillers on November 04, 2008, 07:23:37 PM

Quote from: theskull1 on November 04, 2008, 06:57:30 PM
Cork will be looked after by their CB better than 95% of teams in Ireland

That sentance right there sums up your lack of knowledge about Cork hurling and highlights how clueless you are and your real agenda, because that's the biggest load of bull I've read.
Any true hurling fan could never suppoirt the board if they had any shaddow of a clue.

At least I know now and wont bother replying or fighting what are posts just to whinge about players when you have zero facts or knowledge or history, nothing I mean nothing. That sentence..unbelievable.

Not as feckin clueless as someone who doesn't understand the difference between future tense and past tense.   :o :D.

I think everybody is convinced by now that you are one of the players, so forgive your detractors if they don't want to listen to your rantings


Zulu you are being disengenuous in cliaming the last number of posters claim anything of the sort and any reference to them speaking about grass roots I'm sure is simply a straw poll of any other GAA person they have discussed it with. Is this worth arguing about?

So let me try and read between your lines.
You're OK with the treatment meated out to Gerard McCarthy by the players and their Journalist friends? You actually admire what they've done because they willing to stand and fight for what they believe in, regardless of who they degrade. You actually say that it would have been easier for the players who didn't agree with all the bullshit to walk away and that they're great fellas for demeaning one of your Hurling greats in their attempt to get their way.

Fair enough

QuoteSo tell me please, justify your comment about Cork getting treated better then 95% of the teams in the country, so plase give me an example that is worse then not having no changing room for a match. Not only did they have no where to change, but no where to get their head ready, to get together talk, prepare for the match, no bloody bathrooms, they'd to get changed in a gym and when the public toilets had a line out the door, they'd to piss in the corner of the gym.

Quote from: theskull1 on November 04, 2008, 10:37:21 PM

QuoteSo tell me please, justify your comment about Cork getting treated better then 95% of the teams in the country, so plase give me an example that is worse then not having no changing room for a match. Not only did they have no where to change, but no where to get their head ready, to get together talk, prepare for the match, no bloody bathrooms, they'd to get changed in a gym and when the public toilets had a line out the door, they'd to piss in the corner of the gym.

Reillers why act like such a p***k with your childish attempts to belittle when you actually look as if you want to win over peoples opinion of the players in this dispute. You only end up hardening attitudes. Very similar to the players indeed

Is that the criteria for deciding how well a county team is treated? A one night balls up in arrangements for what I can only presume was a challenge game? Hardly a fair guage of how well you are being treated overall. Is the food being served up in mallow not good enough? Youse get it better than most in terms of being well treated. Do youse even realise that?

Quote from: Reillers on November 04, 2008, 11:47:27 PM
Statement not an insult. A clear, clear statement. You're not answering my question because you can't.

Quote from: Zulu on November 04, 2008, 05:51:31 PM
Clearly John Allen might naturally favour the players, however I don't think he would publicly come out against the CB unless he truely believed they shared plenty of the blame. So to dismiss his article on the basis that it would be biased is ridiculous

Quote from: Reillers on November 05, 2008, 01:05:36 AM
I was, you were the one who despite what everyone had said continued to bitch and moan about the players. You made a statement, of which you know nothing about. It was the most ridiculous factless comment I've seen that was just made for the sake of whining about the playres. I'm being serious here now, not trying to insult you, but it was was the most factless comment I've read in a long time

Fine I did start it, I called you an idiot because you were acting like a complete idiot, I said that in my last post, but you're just stalling more time, trying to think of an answer, and yet you still haven't answered my question..just more and more changing of the subject.

Quote from: theskull1 on November 05, 2008, 01:23:51 AM
Good man  :)

Dinny Cahill and his Antrim team

Dinny after travelling 5 hours from Tipperary had planned to take the team for a training session in Casement Park. Both Players and Dinny arrived to casement park only to be told that the pitch was closed so as to give it a rest (the pitch is the most under utilised surface in Antrim....hence the best one) and were told that if they wanted to train they should "try" the council pitch up the road to see if it was available ( a soft sandy cut up dump of a pitch in a park where wino's go to drink on the nice summers evenings). Dinny and the players arrive to find the gates locked but park, get changed in the cars parked on the roadside in an area renowned for joyriders and all procede to climb over the security fencing just so they can get a hurling session carried out. Players and Dinny jump in their cars at the end of the session and everyone drives home. This has happened on a continual basis for years.


Now was that quick enough for you? Still don't know what relevance this has or if you will feel it "trumps" your story. The general question I asked earlier though still hasn't been addressed

Quote from: bottlethrower7 on November 05, 2008, 09:36:58 AM

Quote from: Zulu on November 04, 2008, 05:51:31 PM
Clearly John Allen might naturally favour the players, however I don't think he would publicly come out against the CB unless he truely believed they shared plenty of the blame. So to dismiss his article on the basis that it would be biased is ridiculous

John Allen is an Irish Times columnist, and has been for at least the last year or so. Its not like hes just popped his head out from obscurity to voice an opinion on this issue.

What Allen says could be true, but to me he is not the most objective commentator on the issue and for that reason I would take what he says with a pinch of salt.

Quote from: Reillers on November 05, 2008, 11:53:08 AM

Quote from: theskull1 on November 05, 2008, 01:23:51 AM
Good man  :)

Dinny Cahill and his Antrim team

Dinny after travelling 5 hours from Tipperary had planned to take the team for a training session in Casement Park. Both Players and Dinny arrived to casement park only to be told that the pitch was closed so as to give it a rest (the pitch is the most under utilised surface in Antrim....hence the best one) and were told that if they wanted to train they should "try" the council pitch up the road to see if it was available ( a soft sandy cut up dump of a pitch in a park where wino's go to drink on the nice summers evenings). Dinny and the players arrive to find the gates locked but park, get changed in the cars parked on the roadside in an area renowned for joyriders and all procede to climb over the security fencing just so they can get a hurling session carried out. Players and Dinny jump in their cars at the end of the session and everyone drives home. This has happened on a continual basis for years.


Now was that quick enough for you? Still don't know what relevance this has or if you will feel it "trumps" your story. The general question I asked earlier though still hasn't been addressed

Christ how long did it take you to google that. That was one incident, one bouch up.  ::) ::)
You said 95%..that's one example, so I'd be wanting about 20/25 more examples but at the rate it took you make up, sorry I mean find that I wouldn't expect any example before Christmas.
IF this happened on a continual basis for years they really should have done something about it, at this stage the Cork players would have gotten something themselves. I fail to believe that it happens EVERY year it happens and they do nothing about it.
You said 95%, you gave me one example of a board, doing one thing, with no proof backing up what you say, and I'm supposed to be impressed and say you're right. 95% is what you said, so give me a hell lot more examples.

What was the question you asked ealier.

Quote from: theskull1 on November 04, 2008, 10:01:54 PM
Well if you can't beat them join em  :)

Look I can't find fault in any questions you're asking about why wasn't there more men coming forward to take the job. Very valid and the CCB along with the selection committee should be a bit more transparent about why that was not the case. But do you not agree that there is not a sense here that the position the players have taken here is that they believe they should have the veto over who will manage them whilst at the same time refusing to accept any responsibility for the past two years?

The stance and language the players have chosen has meant that themselves and the scribes are plowing a lone furrow. They have lost the room

That reply was to Zulu BTW

Quote from: billy the kid on November 05, 2008, 11:58:55 AM

Quote from: Reillers on November 05, 2008, 11:53:08 AM

Quote from: theskull1 on November 05, 2008, 01:23:51 AM
Good man  :)

Dinny Cahill and his Antrim team

Dinny after travelling 5 hours from Tipperary had planned to take the team for a training session in Casement Park. Both Players and Dinny arrived to casement park only to be told that the pitch was closed so as to give it a rest (the pitch is the most under utilised surface in Antrim....hence the best one) and were told that if they wanted to train they should "try" the council pitch up the road to see if it was available ( a soft sandy cut up dump of a pitch in a park where wino's go to drink on the nice summers evenings). Dinny and the players arrive to find the gates locked but park, get changed in the cars parked on the roadside in an area renowned for joyriders and all procede to climb over the security fencing just so they can get a hurling session carried out. Players and Dinny jump in their cars at the end of the session and everyone drives home. This has happened on a continual basis for years.


Now was that quick enough for you? Still don't know what relevance this has or if you will feel it "trumps" your story. The general question I asked earlier though still hasn't been addressed

Christ how long did it take you to google that. That was one incident, one bouch up.  ::) ::)
You said 95%..that's one example, so I'd be wanting about 20/25 more examples but at the rate it took you make up, sorry I mean find that I wouldn't expect any example before Christmas.
IF this happened on a continual basis for years they really should have done something about it, at this stage the Cork players would have gotten something themselves. I fail to believe that it happens EVERY year it happens and they do nothing about it.
You said 95%, you gave me one example of a board, doing one thing, with no proof backing up what you say, and I'm supposed to be impressed and say you're right. 95% is what you said, so give me a hell lot more examples.

What was the question you asked ealier.

You keep going on about Proof. Wheres all the proof for the bad treatment of the Cork Players, McCarthys bad management, CCB sins?  You have supplied no proof of anything yet and are we supposed to just accept everything you say because you are obviously a Cork player.

Quote from: Zulu on November 05, 2008, 12:07:08 PM

Quote from: theskull1 on November 04, 2008, 10:01:54 PM
Well if you can't beat them join em  :)

Look I can't find fault in any questions you're asking about why wasn't there more men coming forward to take the job. Very valid and the CCB along with the selection committee should be a bit more transparent about why that was not the case. But do you not agree that there is not a sense here that the position the players have taken here is that they believe they should have the veto over who will manage them whilst at the same time refusing to accept any responsibility for the past two years?

The stance and language the players have chosen has meant that themselves and the scribes are plowing a lone furrow. They have lost the room

That reply was to Zulu BTW

I wouldn't agree with that, I do believe that if there were a number of choices available and the two player representitive felt that 2 or 3 of them were suitable they would have supported whatever chice the other 5 rowed in behind. From what I know this is how it appears to have paned out.

- A 7 man committee is formed with 5 CB men and 2 players
- The 2 player reps at some point in proceedings tell the other 5 that Gerald isn't up to it and they wouldn't be happy with him continuing as manager.(They probably assume he won't go for the job anyway given the results etc.)
- The CB come back and tell the lads ' guess what we ahve only one candidate and it's Gerald'.
- The players respond with something like this...' so you are telling us that nobody else has any interest at all in the Cork job, did ye sound anyone out, did the clubs have any time to put forward nominations, was an outsider considered for the post and are you not taking any heed of our opinion that Gerald isn't up to it and if not why....his results over the past two years? Frank, you must be havin a laugh!'
- CB...' Yeah no lads, we're very happy with Gerald, in our (expert) opinion a history of poor results, some average performances and player discontent with the manager is the perfect recipie for on field success. Now go get them Kilkenny feckers'
- the 2 player reps look at each other and mutter th eimmortal words..'f**k this we're off'
- CB board lads look at each other with a degree of self satisfaction thinking 'we've got em now boys we have got the f**kers now'.

Note: All characters and events are based on what I think might have transpired any similarity to real people or actual events is purely because I think that is probably what happened!

Quote from: Zulu on November 05, 2008, 12:07:08 PM

Quote from: theskull1 on November 04, 2008, 10:01:54 PM
Well if you can't beat them join em  :)

Look I can't find fault in any questions you're asking about why wasn't there more men coming forward to take the job. Very valid and the CCB along with the selection committee should be a bit more transparent about why that was not the case. But do you not agree that there is not a sense here that the position the players have taken here is that they believe they should have the veto over who will manage them whilst at the same time refusing to accept any responsibility for the past two years?

The stance and language the players have chosen has meant that themselves and the scribes are plowing a lone furrow. They have lost the room

That reply was to Zulu BTW

I wouldn't agree with that, I do believe that if there were a number of choices available and the two player representitive felt that 2 or 3 of them were suitable they would have supported whatever chice the other 5 rowed in behind. From what I know this is how it appears to have paned out.

- A 7 man committee is formed with 5 CB men and 2 players
- The 2 player reps at some point in proceedings tell the other 5 that Gerald isn't up to it and they wouldn't be happy with him continuing as manager.(They probably assume he won't go for the job anyway given the results etc.)
- The CB come back and tell the lads ' guess what we ahve only one candidate and it's Gerald'.
- The players respond with something like this...' so you are telling us that nobody else has any interest at all in the Cork job, did ye sound anyone out, did the clubs have any time to put forward nominations, was an outsider considered for the post and are you not taking any heed of our opinion that Gerald isn't up to it and if not why....his results over the past two years? Frank, you must be havin a laugh!'
- CB...' Yeah no lads, we're very happy with Gerald, in our (expert) opinion a history of poor results, some average performances and player discontent with the manager is the perfect recipie for on field success. Now go get them Kilkenny feckers'
- the 2 player reps look at each other and mutter th eimmortal words..'f**k this we're off'
- CB board lads look at each other with a degree of self satisfaction thinking 'we've got em now boys we have got the f**kers now'.

Note: All characters and events are based on what I think might have transpired any similarity to real people or actual events is purely because I think that is probably what happened!

Quote from: billy the kid on November 05, 2008, 11:52:59 AM

Quote from: Reillers on November 05, 2008, 01:05:36 AM
I was, you were the one who despite what everyone had said continued to bitch and moan about the players. You made a statement, of which you know nothing about. It was the most ridiculous factless comment I've seen that was just made for the sake of whining about the playres. I'm being serious here now, not trying to insult you, but it was was the most factless comment I've read in a long time

Fine I did start it, I called you an idiot because you were acting like a complete idiot, I said that in my last post, but you're just stalling more time, trying to think of an answer, and yet you still haven't answered my question..just more and more changing of the subject.

I dont think the Cork players and their media mates count as everyone.  

I have yet to speak to any Hurling or even GAA supporter who thinks the Cork players are doing the right thing. I admit I have not spoken to every single GAA supporter in the world but have spoken to club players, County players, 2 chaimen, and plenty of ordinary supporters and have yet to hear anyone think yous are doing the right thing. The majority of posters on here also appear to think yous are yet again bringing a hand grenade to a fist fight and many think the players are after their own agenda not a Cork Hurling agenda.  Im sure the cork county board like most county boards like to feel in control but it would also appear that the cork players unlike most players want to run the show and be the star attracion.

The posters on here who are supporting the players stance, and some are obviously Cork players, (eh Donal Og) cannot be taken seriously if they are gonna take the moral high ground and  complain that other posters who disagree with the players are being disrespectful, degrading and abusive and then abuse, insult and chastise these other posters in the next breath (line) Practice what you preach

You asked for an example of a County team that gets treated worse than the Cork boys - Let me present the Derry Hurlers

Derry county board dont supply food after training unless the footballers are training on the same night and even then the footballers go first and hurlers basically get whats left

Replacement Hurls are not supplied for sticks broken in training

Replacement Hurls that are supplied after games are picked out by a DCB member who has never played hurling and is openly hostile to the game and players. Lads tell him what size they want and he goes and gets it if you dont think its a good stick or its too light/heavy tough, its take it or leave it as another will not be issued.

Physio provision and team doctor provision again is only available if footballers are training on the same night and only after footballers are finished meaning only a couple of hulers will get chance to be seen each night resulting in players having to sort themselves out alot of the time through club or at own expense.

Derry won the U21 ulster hurling championship this year when all the experts said Antrim would walk it. After the clinching game the players were in the changing room going mad (as you would winning a provincial title against all the odds) and in walks the county chairman and he asks to speak to the players. everyone quietens down expecting him to congratulate them. However the chairman proceeds to tell them that they must return all the jerseys and kit and under no circumstances were they to take them home. Not one word of congratulations were uttered.  To top things of, as he left the changing room he informed the kit man that if any jerseys or kit were missing he would be sent a bill for them. The kits werent even a new set they were the design from a couple of years ago but at least it was nearly a full set (22 out of 24)

For the U21 All-Ireland Semi-final the DCB refused point blank to supply new kits or jerseys and on the night before the game the manager and the kit man had to make a complete set up from 5 different sets of old kits missing numbers. Some of these were long sleeved some were short, all 5 kits were a different style and socks and shorts could only be found for first 15 with rest of panel told to bring their own.

County board also refused to let team stay over night before meaning the team had to travel 5 hours on the morning of the match to play the game.

The U21 manager spoke out about these things and was hit with a "bringing the game into disrepute" charge.  

DCB Ulster council hurling representative was asked at an Ulster council meeting "how hurling was being supported in Derry and what more could be done by the Derry County Board" he duly told the whole and complete truth and the other Ulster council members were aghast but reassured by the other Derry members who said that not to worry mistakes had been made and that they would sort it out. well sort it out they did the hurling rep was "relieved of his duties" at the next DCB meeting and now we dont have a hurling rep as they have done away with that position.

And its not just Hurling they treat poorly, although they see it as a nuisance and would gladly cease all support if they thought they could get away with it, football also has suffered.

Last year the Derry Minor football manager was given 6 footballs to train the team - he had to arrange sponsorship to buy more balls.

The Minor Footballers had great difficult in getting a pitch to train on

He had arranged a training trip for the panel that included an overnight stay that had been agreed with the DCB at the start of the year - but a week before it was due to take place the DCB said NO and told him to cancel it. Again the manager went and arranged sponsorship to cover the cost of the trip.

The DCB then proceeded to tell the manager of for going over their heads. Where most would see "Ingenuity" they saw "Insobordination"

When the season finished The manager spoke out about these things and said they had made the job harder than it should have been.

What was the DCBs response? He too was given  a "bringing the game into disrepute" charge.

The manager (who is widely regarded as one of the best young managers around) has now walked away from Derry football (is now involved with one of our neighbours) and has said he wont be involved again until some major changes happen.


Are the \Cork players treated worse than this?

I could sit here all day typing up examples within my own county and other county teams III know about but No matter what examples are given Ive the feeling that The Cork Players on this board will still feel they are the victims. Yous are one of the better treated teams.  

Quote from: Reillers on November 05, 2008, 05:21:25 PM

People think that we should just shut up or put up. If ye're in the same situation then you know that's it's not good enough and that we shouldn't have to. There's a line.

Quote from: Reillers on November 05, 2008, 05:21:25 PM
"Derry county board dont supply food after training unless the footballers are training on the same night and even then the footballers go first and hurlers basically get whats left."

..Ye get food at training, our lads don't.

Quote from: theskull1 on November 05, 2008, 05:57:28 PM

Quote from: Reillers on November 05, 2008, 05:21:25 PM
"Derry county board dont supply food after training unless the footballers are training on the same night and even then the footballers go first and hurlers basically get whats left."

..Ye get food at training, our lads don't.

Reillers, I believe theres fantastic catering facilities up in mallow. Do Cork teams not get well fed up there?

Quote from: Reillers on November 05, 2008, 07:56:40 PM

Quote from: theskull1 on November 05, 2008, 05:57:28 PM

Quote from: Reillers on November 05, 2008, 05:21:25 PM
"Derry county board dont supply food after training unless the footballers are training on the same night and even then the footballers go first and hurlers basically get whats left."

..Ye get food at training, our lads don't.

Reillers, I believe theres fantastic catering facilities up in mallow. Do Cork teams not get well fed up there?

They don't start training in Mallow till December..I think. That is if they're training in December.

Quote from: Reillers on November 05, 2008, 07:56:40 PM

Quote from: theskull1 on November 05, 2008, 05:57:28 PM

Quote from: Reillers on November 05, 2008, 05:21:25 PM
"Derry county board dont supply food after training unless the footballers are training on the same night and even then the footballers go first and hurlers basically get whats left."

..Ye get food at training, our lads don't.

Reillers, I believe theres fantastic catering facilities up in mallow. Do Cork teams not get well fed up there?

They don't start training in Mallow till December..I think. That is if they're training in December.

Quote from: theskull1 on November 05, 2008, 10:01:51 PM

Quote from: Reillers on November 05, 2008, 07:56:40 PM

Quote from: theskull1 on November 05, 2008, 05:57:28 PM

Quote from: Reillers on November 05, 2008, 05:21:25 PM
"Derry county board dont supply food after training unless the footballers are training on the same night and even then the footballers go first and hurlers basically get whats left."

..Ye get food at training, our lads don't.

Reillers, I believe theres fantastic catering facilities up in mallow. Do Cork teams not get well fed up there?

They don't start training in Mallow till December..I think. That is if they're training in December.

Did they do any training there over the past year?

Quote from: INDIANA on November 06, 2008, 12:08:02 AM
reillers, allen isn't objective in this debate he was largely controlled by the players, who were happy with him because they could boss him around. I'd be prepared to listen to O Grady because he was his own man but I wouldn't hold Allen's views as an objective analysis of the situation.
The simple solution is for the main protagonists to go away. Cork hurling is bigger than any one individual , whether a manager,player or county board official. The main protagonists in this can't see that unfortuntaely.

Quote
THE Cork senior hurlers last night issued a hard hitting statement challenging comments made by manager Gerald McCarthy and the County Board as the dispute between players and officials showed no signs of resolution.


The squad claimed in a statement exclusively released to the Irish Examiner last night, that the campaign against them in the row over McCarthy's re-appointment "can only be interpreted as constituting a vendetta".

They again insisted they do not want the right to pick the manager and, in the course of a lengthy statement, the players also claimed a Board member on the seven-man selection committee stated McCarthy was the "second-best man for the job".



The players statement added: "At no point in the proceedings was the board's first choice as manager confirmed, which shows that, in our view, this was in fact a 'done deal'."

"We recognise the upset and annoyance which these situations have caused Cork GAA people over recent years," said a player representative. "But we're concerned by what we see as attempts to mislead the Cork GAA public, which is why we feel obliged to make the following points by way of clarification.

We feel there has been a concerted campaign against us and we have no choice but to try to set the record straight. For all of us these developments are unwelcome and unnecessary, but for some of us, due to the magnitude of the campaign, they can only be interpreted as constituting a vendetta."

Gerald McCarthy questioned whether players had the right to pick the manager, saying on Newstalk: "If that's the way, it's player power pure and total."

PLAYERS: "The players don't say they have the right to pick the manager, (their wish was to be involved in the selection process) nor do they want the right to pick the manager. The players have the right, according to binding arbitration, to have a two-sevenths representation in the process to appoint a new manager. The players didn't decide this, it was decided by Kieran Mulvey in binding arbitration."

In his statement of October 30, issued to the media, Gerald McCarthy said the "presentation by certain players of my appointment as Cork hurling manager has been quite disingenuous... I'm happy that my appointment was correctly made — it was not a 'done deal', as has been suggested."

PLAYERS: "Gerald wasn't present at any of the five meetings and is not in a position to say whether the players are telling the truth or not. For the record, the players agree there were five meetings but maintain that there was no process, and that they have told no lies."

The county board statement of October 31 reaffirmed its support for its "properly appointed hurling manager".

PLAYERS: "Not for the first time, the Cork County Board deems it necessary to say that what they have done in the past was correctly done. The players don't accept that this was a legitimate process or a legitimate appointment and as a result, don't accept that there are any constraints on them or on any of their actions."

The county board insists the two player representatives never presented any other candidate for consideration . . . at the third meeting there was a discussion of the names of other possible managers."

PLAYERS: "In two sentences, the innate contradiction of the county board statement is clearly set out. It can hardly be said that nobody was presented for consideration if there was a discussion of their names. By way of further clarification, the names were suggested at the second meeting (not the third), which was attended by Seán Óg Ó hAilpín (as proxy for John Gardiner). It was the only meeting he attended and he suggested potential candidates. Regarding the process, the players believe that the board tried to force them into a vote (on one man) where they held the majority, while attempting to maintain that this was 'a process'.

"The reason there were five meetings was because, from meeting number two, the players tried to resist the situation being imposed on them, which clearly was not as envisaged by Mr Mulvey's findings nor in the best interests of Cork hurling. When other candidates were mentioned by players, they were not considered but a board member in the course of the discussions stated that he believed Gerald was the second-best man for the job. At no point in the proceedings was the board's first choice as manager confirmed, which shows that, in our view, this was in fact a 'done deal'."

Gerald has referred to "the ferocity" of the approach of players in his media statement.

PLAYERS: "We're amazed Gerald could have found any approach to him ferocious, intimidating or in any way improper. Even though he was not the Cork hurling manager at the time, given the widely reported 'lack of respect' to other sitting intercounty managers in other counties, and out of respect for Gerald personally, it was felt that a direct approach on a human level was vital. At that time the players — as they do now — felt Gerald was being put in a position by the board and wanted him to avoid that, especially when he did not enjoy the confidence of any panel member from a managerial point of view. This was leaving aside the panel's objections to his appointment.

"The players went to see Gerald on the morning of his appointment in an effort to show the unity of the panel and the respect of the panel to him. All 30 panel members wanted to go but only 10 were available due to work commitments on the day."

Gerald McCarthy's comments to the media.

PLAYERS: "Since his purported appointment, Gerald McCarthy has launched a campaign seeking to justify his position, which the players would have regarded as being misguided until, in their view, the line was crossed on a number of occasions by Gerald. He has accused the players of bullying him — that did not happen at any time. He has been treated at all times with great respect, as befits his position."

On Newstalk Gerald referred to Ben's interview in the Irish Examiner, specifically the matter of phone calls to younger players from management — "some players were contacted, and there were younger players contacted ... he did not put any pressure on any younger players. But he did point out to players that, look, there's a lot at stake here for younger players".

PLAYERS: "No senior players were contacted, and the younger players contacted certainly felt they were being pressurised. To quote from one of the calls, the management representative said: 'It's the younger players will lose out'. This was interpreted as a threat or pressure by the younger players concerned. To seek to label Ben O'Connor as uttering untruths is outrageous and unacceptable to us. In many parts of the GAA world, Ben O'Connor is considered to be a hurling legend."

Gerald said on Newstalk that Ben O'Connor's suggestion the player vote was unanimous was inaccurate.

PLAYERS: "Gerald was not present at any meeting. The panel was absolutely unanimous in its rejection of Gerald as proposed manager, but at the time, in a confidential meeting, a small number of players held a minority view as to how best to proceed in the current climate. This has since been unanimously resolved."

Gerald's statement to the media says "I have tried to understand how the players have painted themselves into a corner."

PLAYERS: "THE players had issued no statement at that time — an interview had been given by one player, Ben O'Connor, in the face of blanket media coverage of Gerald's point of view and the comments of other parties. The players had made no statements and hadn't painted themselves into any corners. It should be remembered who brought these matters into the public domain."

Gerald's media statement added: "I have regrettably come to the conclusion that there is a predisposition to conflict among a very small number of Cork players."

PLAYERS: "This echoes the numerous attempts by the board, over the years, to maintain that somewhere between 25 and 28 Cork senior hurlers are being said and led by two to five others – which the 25 to 28 players, whoever they might be, find deeply insulting. It also shows the opinion of the board and Gerald as to the backbone of the Cork senior hurling team. To say that teachers, engineers, bank managers, farmers, businessmen and parents could be led down roads they did not wish to take by one or two of their team-mates is ridiculous.

"Such moral weakness may prevail in other bodies, particularly those which can vote almost unanimously, in diametrically opposing ways, with just four days between each vote, like the Cork County Board."

Gerald's statement also reads: "For some players to attempt to retrofit an objection ... to treat people in a summary and offensive way reflects poorly on them."

PLAYERS: "Yet again, this is an echo of the board's view, as there is no question of 'some players'. All representations made at any time were made on the unanimous instructions of the entire panel. There was no 'retrofit' – rather, over five meetings, there was an objection by the players, through their representatives, to the efforts to back them into a corner. These objections took place over the course of the meetings and before the vote was taken, not after it."

The publication of Cathal O'Reilly's document.

PLAYERS: "We are at a complete loss as to how a confidential document, to which we all contributed under conditions of strict privacy, could find its way to the pages of a newspaper.

"Cathal O'Reilly has confirmed that only one copy of this document was ever produced by him and was only given to one individual – Gerald McCarthy. For this document to be given to anyone, let alone a newspaper, exemplifies the lack of understanding on Gerald's part, in our view, of the nature of a relationship of trust.

"Cathal O'Reilly was brought in to help the players and Gerald when it was recognised by all and sundry that there was a lack of trust as part of a dysfunctional relationship between management and panel.

"Cathal has confirmed to the panel that on October 29, without any contact from the Cork management, he received a phone call from Gerald thanking him for his help, asking him to return next year and failing to mention anything about the use of, publication of, loss of, misplacement of the confidential document given to him many months before and which miraculously appeared the following day in the newspaper."

The county board statement says it ". . . may have been guilty of misjudgements in the past, but few can deny that we have made adjustments to take account of changed times, new values and circumstances."

PLAYERS: "To say the board 'may have been guilty of misjudgements in the past' is a crass understatement. Gerald McCarthy was 'elected' as the sole candidate put forward by the board, following the county board secretary being, in Gerald's words, 'very persuasive' in 2006.

"The players, despite their misgivings and the stated intent of members of the previous management to apply for the job, did not raise an objection to Gerald's appointment. This followed four years under Donal O'Grady and John Allen, both with different management methods, without a single issue or incident arising between team, management or the county board.

"Twelve months ago the hurlers and footballers begged with the Cork County Board not to make an appointment of a football manager because of a flawed appointment process. The players did not want the issue personalised at that time.

"Twelve months on its own senior hurling team begged the board not to make an appointment because of a flawed appointment process and its obvious outcome, and begged the individual concerned not to put himself in the same position.

"Despite the binding arbitration findings, we think it is clear exactly what type of adjustments the board has made."

Gerald says in his statement this issue is about 'due process, respect and other core values that I and many others hold dear'.

PLAYERS: "We wholeheartedly agree."

Quote from: The GAA on November 06, 2008, 11:53:21 AM

That's not a great staking out the ground statement for public consumption from the players. they needed something more concise and business like. it seems to me that they have gone to great lengths to inform the masses in detail and tried to be as non confrontational as possible.  they have lost sight of the necessary "political" tone of previous statements on the matter from McCarthy, etc.

OM
1 - what have cork won under McCarthy?
2 - which players are retirement age?

Quote from: The GAA on November 06, 2008, 11:53:21 AM

That's not a great staking out the ground statement for public consumption from the players. they needed something more concise and business like. it seems to me that they have gone to great lengths to inform the masses in detail and tried to be as non confrontational as possible.  they have lost sight of the necessary "political" tone of previous statements on the matter from McCarthy, etc.

OM
1 - what have cork won under McCarthy?
2 - which players are retirement age?

Quote from: The GAA on November 06, 2008, 01:32:59 PM

1 - Surely, even to someone like you, the decline of a team which had recently won all irelands has been alarming in the last couple of years?

so you reason that the players are just not good enough but the two games they won are down to the manager alone?

2 - do a bit of googling there and see what age "Sully, Timmy McC, Niall McC, Joe Deane" are and see if it fits with your impressions. interesing that you didn't include donal og.

I don't know why i engage in this primary school reasoning with you because as usual when i win every point you'll just start again tomorrow

Quote from: theskull1 on November 06, 2008, 01:47:06 PM
GAA...I have no clue who you are talking to but seeing as I mentioned those names....

Quote from: billy the kid on November 06, 2008, 02:06:42 PM

Quote from: The GAA on November 06, 2008, 01:32:59 PM

1 - Surely, even to someone like you, the decline of a team which had recently won all irelands has been alarming in the last couple of years?

so you reason that the players are just not good enough but the two games they won are down to the manager alone?

2 - do a bit of googling there and see what age "Sully, Timmy McC, Niall McC, Joe Deane" are and see if it fits with your impressions. interesing that you didn't include donal og.

I don't know why i engage in this primary school reasoning with you because as usual when i win every point you'll just start again tomorrow

Sorry GAA but let me correct that - Donal Og (GAA) is not good enough to be playing on an All Ireland winning team  ;D

Yer man who came in for him last year when he was sent off looked a much better keeper.

Donal Og should retire and let the new blood in to develop into an All Ireland winning keeper. Donal Og could concentrate on working for the GPA and sending in messages to GAABOARD.

Quote from: The GAA on November 06, 2008, 01:32:59 PM

1 - Surely, even to someone like you, the decline of a team which had recently won all irelands has been alarming in the last couple of years?

so you reason that the players are just not good enough but the two games they won are down to the manager alone?

2 - do a bit of googling there and see what age "Sully, Timmy McC, Niall McC, Joe Deane" are and see if it fits with your impressions. interesing that you didn't include donal og.

I don't know why i engage in this primary school reasoning with you because as usual when i win every point you'll just start again tomorrow

Quote from: orangeman on November 06, 2008, 03:02:18 PM

Quote from: The GAA on November 06, 2008, 01:32:59 PM

1 - Surely, even to someone like you, the decline of a team which had recently won all irelands has been alarming in the last couple of years?

so you reason that the players are just not good enough but the two games they won are down to the manager alone?

2 - do a bit of googling there and see what age "Sully, Timmy McC, Niall McC, Joe Deane" are and see if it fits with your impressions. interesing that you didn't include donal og.

I don't know why i engage in this primary school reasoning with you because as usual when i win every point you'll just start again tomorrow

So who are you then - I'm from a small club in Tyrone -  Ardboe to be precise  - what club do you belong do ? Never deny where you come from - always stand up, be proud of your roots - I know I am -

So where you from GAA ?

Quote from: billy the kid on November 06, 2008, 02:48:16 PM
Shes not fat shes just big boned!!

Donal, maybe you and some of your cohorts should take some slimming pills for those big egos yous have and realise the World, CLG, and Cork Hurling do not revolve around yous.

I have no doubt that there are wrongs on all sides but the Cork players want everything their own way and seem to be trying to run the team and play on it.  They had a strike last year and one of their key demands was that they wanted to have representation on the panel that selects the manager which they got. Now that the panel has selected a manager (after a vote) they dont like  they are on strike again.

What next? A strike at half time in matches if they are getting beat? A strike before the All stars to ensure they get more? A strike before bed time if they dont get their favourite story read to them? 

Quote from: billy the kid on November 06, 2008, 03:38:49 PM
Donal, if you took of the blinkers and actually asked the average GAA man, club player, county player, managers and other county boards ( :o) what their opinion of your latest strike was you would soon see how yous are seen.

Quote from: billy the kid on November 05, 2008, 11:52:59 AM


I have yet to speak to any Hurling or even GAA supporter who thinks the Cork players are doing the right thing. I admit I have not spoken to every single GAA supporter in the world but have spoken to club players, County players, 2 chaimen, and plenty of ordinary supporters and have yet to hear anyone think yous are doing the right thing. The majority of posters on here also appear to think yous are yet again bringing a hand grenade to a fist fight and many think the players are after their own agenda not a Cork Hurling agenda.  Im sure the cork county board like most county boards like to feel in control but it would also appear that the cork players unlike most players want to run the show and be the star attracion.

Have spoken to people from all those sections mentioned not just in my own neck of the woods but from various counties both in Ulster and further afield and no support at all, has been forth coming. in fact many have a pretty hostile attitude towards yous and the longer yous huff strike the more hostile it will become.

By the way your childish remarks only show how badly your struggling to justify your huffing strike Donal Og.

Quote from: The GAA on November 06, 2008, 03:08:39 PM

Quote from: orangeman on November 06, 2008, 03:02:18 PM

Quote from: The GAA on November 06, 2008, 01:32:59 PM

1 - Surely, even to someone like you, the decline of a team which had recently won all irelands has been alarming in the last couple of years?

so you reason that the players are just not good enough but the two games they won are down to the manager alone?

2 - do a bit of googling there and see what age "Sully, Timmy McC, Niall McC, Joe Deane" are and see if it fits with your impressions. interesing that you didn't include donal og.

I don't know why i engage in this primary school reasoning with you because as usual when i win every point you'll just start again tomorrow

So who are you then - I'm from a small club in Tyrone -  Ardboe to be precise  - what club do you belong do ? Never deny where you come from - always stand up, be proud of your roots - I know I am -

So where you from GAA ?

So you can't debate the issues? you have to make it personal when you run out of steam. you left out your name - mine's Donal and i'm from cloyne.

Quote from: The GAA on November 06, 2008, 04:27:43 PM

1 so you don't know.

2 any hurling people i talk to support the direction the players have gone after they are furnished with the facts.

3 on the contrary, the majority of sensible posters here appear to support the cork players

Quote from: The GAA on November 06, 2008, 02:29:37 PM

Quote from: theskull1 on November 06, 2008, 01:47:06 PM
GAA...I have no clue who you are talking to but seeing as I mentioned those names....

You're not capable of reading the previous post, then mine and work out that myself and orangeman are conversing?

Quote from: The GAA on November 06, 2008, 04:27:43 PM
on the contrary, the majority of sensible posters here appear to support the cork players

Quote from: Reillers on November 06, 2008, 05:44:55 PM
The statement was hard hitting and it was well nothing more then a hit back, a response to McCarthy and the board, a response to them being called liars, brats..etc. Which they were perfectly entitled to.

I don't know what people were expecting, an apifamy, a grand solution they did what they said they'd do. They responded to the attacks on themselves and did so well.

And Billy you are so immature it's beyond a joke really, mounting evidence, mounting oppinions from journalists, ex managers, people who have an inside knowledge..etc. Have come out and said the villians in this are the board, the victims are the players and managers.
Yet you ignore everyone, posters on here, the general building view, the so called experts, everyone who knows something, you ignore them, you claim that all these people you've met back you and everyone you talk to..etc. But the fact is that the growing, rapidly growing, public view is swinging in behind the players, maybe not from petty Tipp or Waterford fans who come on not willing to listen to the truth and purely for a bitch and a whinge about players they've always hated, but from people who's oppinion like other managers and such, people's oppinion which means something, that are logical and not biased have all fallein behind the players, that's not on opinion, it's fact. Note the articles in the Indo, Times, Examiner, Tribune..etc.

You're childish enough to say that a few of us are players because cause forbid people back them. They are taking on the bully of all bullies who is destroying, yes destroying Cork hurling from the inside out. He's letting it rot for nothing more then a petty vendatta.
Not to mention the abandonemt of Cork Gaa itself.

Grow the hell up or don't bother posting, I'm sure there's an age limit on this, over 12s I think. Either read peoples posts not arrogantly breeze through them and tell us that we are all wrong, or just stop posting in general because you're wasting the rest of our time reading your attacks after attacks that are not fact based and have very little ground behind them and very little knowledge. The rest of us are open for debate but you, you continue to ignore our oppinions, ignore our posts which you never read, what you do read is taken so out of context.

Grow up or go away if you're not prepard to have a sensible mature debate where you're open to other people's oppinion.

Quote from: Reillers on November 06, 2008, 05:56:21 PM
Billy and Co..who think the players are just a bunch of whingers, spoiled brats who are just throwing their dummies of the pram..

From AFR.

What about dealing with the real problem ?
By Slán go Fóill Saturday November 8th, 2008

A BREAK is as good as a rest, or so they say, so it was off to Barcelona for four days during mid-term. But nothing really changes, does it? Four days, three of them lashing rain all day long, we thought we were back at home.

But what we did see is that there is a very thin, fine line between genius and mad man and when we stared in awe at Gaudi's architecture in various parts of the city we just couldn't decide which he was, genius or mad man. Maybe a bit of both. It brought into mind our GAA situation here in Cork.

Are we all geniuses or mad men, especially in light of what Cork hurling is going through again? Only geniuses could have steered the GAA through the past 120 years, crisis after crisis, and delivered it improved and thriving on to the next generation. Only mad men could put up with some of the crises we create and I include the present hurling crisis in that. Not a single word of GAA for four whole days, we arrived home to find the newspapers full of the Cork story. Confidential documents leaked to the press, lack of trust and confidence, back-stabbing and accusations and, again, outsiders butting in, telling us what we should do and who to blame.

Where are we going and what are we doing? Are we seriously saying that the crisis with the Cork hurling team is the most pressing problem facing the GAA in Cork today? Well, gentlemen of the Cork hurling team, Gerald McCarthy and fellow mentors, members of the County Board, I have news for you today. It isn't.

This 'crisis' will be done and dusted in time for the National Leagues in the Spring, one way or the other, but the real problems facing Cork GAA will still be with us. Why doesn't the media deal properly with those problems? Because they aren't sensational enough and we all want to put our heads in the sand and pretend they don't exist. But they do, and they are not going away because very little is being done to solve them.

Do you want a list of the Top Twenty problems facing the GAA in Cork today, every one of them more important than Cork hurlers going on strike, again? Well, here they are – 1. An unacceptable fallout of players between the ages of 12 and 18. 2. an unacceptable fixtures structure that penalises clubs and club players. 3. an elitist system that forces out the less able players. 4. long, fine weeks of summer going by with no serious club activity. 5. no plan of action to cater for the growing, young populations in many urban centres. 6. declining standards in both football and hurling, especially in the city. 7. declining crowds at most club games. 8. the ever-rising cost of running clubs today. 9. total shortage of full-time coaches to service the schools. 10. deplorable lack of promotion of Gaelic games by the County Board in opposition to growing interest in other codes.

11. severe lack of voluntary workers in most clubs. 12. major lack of new, young referees and a very poor standard of refereeing all round. 13. unrealistic Co. Board deadlines that force teams to play three championship games within a week. 14. meaningless conventions that merely serve to emphasise the lack of proper democracy at grassroots' level. 15. an amateur organisation that sees some people making plenty money under the table but the big bosses can't even identify the tables. 16. a stadium that is antiquated and the most uncomfortable in the country. 17. a stagnant association that has seen only one new club formed, with great opposition, during the past quarter century. 18. too many Boards, all vying for their own slice of time, pitches and players. 19. too many ex-players putting nothing back into the clubs. 20. antiquated, dysfunctional divisional boundaries kept in place by vested interests. Etc,. etc.

None of these items are classed as crisis but 25 players refusing to play for their county is a major crisis. At this stage I wouldn't even put the hurling situation in my Top Fifty problems facing the GAA in Cork. It means nothing to me or my club whether or not we put a Cork hurling team on the pitch in 2009, except that we might be deprived of some good days out next summer.

All the above items directly affect my club and the players in it. That is the real GAA, that is the GAA that should be taking up our attention. Why isn't it? Because all the above problems are internal GAA problems and have no interest among the general public, no media interest.

There's no news in a junior club in West Cork being idle for thirteen weeks of the summer and then being forced to play three important games in a week. Or in players not being able to fix family holidays because nobody can give them a definite date for the next round of the championship. Or in a junior B championship starting at the end of October. Or being accosted at every hand's turn by clubs running large lotteries to fund developments or running costs. Or schools dropping out of Sciath na Scol because no coaches are provided to help them out.

What parents want to be told that the GAA under age club is not a baby-sitting service and that they should make some effort to give a hand while their kids are playing? Does it matter to the media if your under-12 hurling team, that you put so much effort into all during a very successful summer, leaves you high and dry when soccer and rugby start up again?

As I asked at the start, are we all geniuses or mad men? Sometimes I wonder. Maybe a greater influx of women into the association at all levels would help solve many of our problems. But the lack of effort in involving women is another ongoing problem in a male-dominated organisation.

I suppose as long as the games continue, we will always be satisfied with less than we should.

.....................

That's before I even go near any of the problems with Cork senior hurling. That's a taste of what we've to put up with. And ALL of that, not some, not most. ALL OF THAT is the CCB's fault and no one elses.

Quote from: The GAA on November 06, 2008, 01:32:59 PM

1 - Surely, even to someone like you, the decline of a team which had recently won all irelands has been alarming in the last couple of years?

Quote from: orangeman on November 06, 2008, 06:00:24 PM

Quote from: Reillers on November 06, 2008, 05:56:21 PM
Billy and Co..who think the players are just a bunch of whingers, spoiled brats who are just throwing their dummies of the pram..

From AFR.

What about dealing with the real problem ?
By Slán go Fóill Saturday November 8th, 2008

A BREAK is as good as a rest, or so they say, so it was off to Barcelona for four days during mid-term. But nothing really changes, does it? Four days, three of them lashing rain all day long, we thought we were back at home.

But what we did see is that there is a very thin, fine line between genius and mad man and when we stared in awe at Gaudi's architecture in various parts of the city we just couldn't decide which he was, genius or mad man. Maybe a bit of both. It brought into mind our GAA situation here in Cork.

Are we all geniuses or mad men, especially in light of what Cork hurling is going through again? Only geniuses could have steered the GAA through the past 120 years, crisis after crisis, and delivered it improved and thriving on to the next generation. Only mad men could put up with some of the crises we create and I include the present hurling crisis in that. Not a single word of GAA for four whole days, we arrived home to find the newspapers full of the Cork story. Confidential documents leaked to the press, lack of trust and confidence, back-stabbing and accusations and, again, outsiders butting in, telling us what we should do and who to blame.

Where are we going and what are we doing? Are we seriously saying that the crisis with the Cork hurling team is the most pressing problem facing the GAA in Cork today? Well, gentlemen of the Cork hurling team, Gerald McCarthy and fellow mentors, members of the County Board, I have news for you today. It isn't.

This 'crisis' will be done and dusted in time for the National Leagues in the Spring, one way or the other, but the real problems facing Cork GAA will still be with us. Why doesn't the media deal properly with those problems? Because they aren't sensational enough and we all want to put our heads in the sand and pretend they don't exist. But they do, and they are not going away because very little is being done to solve them.

Do you want a list of the Top Twenty problems facing the GAA in Cork today, every one of them more important than Cork hurlers going on strike, again? Well, here they are – 1. An unacceptable fallout of players between the ages of 12 and 18. 2. an unacceptable fixtures structure that penalises clubs and club players. 3. an elitist system that forces out the less able players. 4. long, fine weeks of summer going by with no serious club activity. 5. no plan of action to cater for the growing, young populations in many urban centres. 6. declining standards in both football and hurling, especially in the city. 7. declining crowds at most club games. 8. the ever-rising cost of running clubs today. 9. total shortage of full-time coaches to service the schools. 10. deplorable lack of promotion of Gaelic games by the County Board in opposition to growing interest in other codes.

11. severe lack of voluntary workers in most clubs. 12. major lack of new, young referees and a very poor standard of refereeing all round. 13. unrealistic Co. Board deadlines that force teams to play three championship games within a week. 14. meaningless conventions that merely serve to emphasise the lack of proper democracy at grassroots' level. 15. an amateur organisation that sees some people making plenty money under the table but the big bosses can't even identify the tables. 16. a stadium that is antiquated and the most uncomfortable in the country. 17. a stagnant association that has seen only one new club formed, with great opposition, during the past quarter century. 18. too many Boards, all vying for their own slice of time, pitches and players. 19. too many ex-players putting nothing back into the clubs. 20. antiquated, dysfunctional divisional boundaries kept in place by vested interests. Etc,. etc.

None of these items are classed as crisis but 25 players refusing to play for their county is a major crisis. At this stage I wouldn't even put the hurling situation in my Top Fifty problems facing the GAA in Cork. It means nothing to me or my club whether or not we put a Cork hurling team on the pitch in 2009, except that we might be deprived of some good days out next summer.

All the above items directly affect my club and the players in it. That is the real GAA, that is the GAA that should be taking up our attention. Why isn't it? Because all the above problems are internal GAA problems and have no interest among the general public, no media interest.

There's no news in a junior club in West Cork being idle for thirteen weeks of the summer and then being forced to play three important games in a week. Or in players not being able to fix family holidays because nobody can give them a definite date for the next round of the championship. Or in a junior B championship starting at the end of October. Or being accosted at every hand's turn by clubs running large lotteries to fund developments or running costs. Or schools dropping out of Sciath na Scol because no coaches are provided to help them out.

What parents want to be told that the GAA under age club is not a baby-sitting service and that they should make some effort to give a hand while their kids are playing? Does it matter to the media if your under-12 hurling team, that you put so much effort into all during a very successful summer, leaves you high and dry when soccer and rugby start up again?

As I asked at the start, are we all geniuses or mad men? Sometimes I wonder. Maybe a greater influx of women into the association at all levels would help solve many of our problems. But the lack of effort in involving women is another ongoing problem in a male-dominated organisation.

I suppose as long as the games continue, we will always be satisfied with less than we should.

.....................

That's before I even go near any of the problems with Cork senior hurling. That's a taste of what we've to put up with. And ALL of that, not some, not most. ALL OF THAT is the CCB's fault and no one elses.

Totally way off the mark -

Has your club any representation on the county board ?

Do they send delegates to meetings ? If os, what do your delegates do about the above ?


What I'm trying to say is that you can't leave all these problems at Frank Murphy's door and I'm not a supporter of Frank Murphy by the way. I merely respect what he has done for the association over a very long period of time - in fact most of his life.

Quotereinforces my opinion that there needs to be a clear out down there, at County Board level, at least.

Quote from: INDIANA on November 06, 2008, 06:57:53 PM
The bottom line is that your average gaa fan doesn't really give a shite about the issues down there anymore. Let Cork sort it out, its there problem. But as said before its time for a lot of people on all sides of the debate to vacate the scene. What concerns me about the Cork players is this:

Are the Cork players prepared to accept any responsibility that maybe they aren't up to the job anymore? After all, when a team crosses the whitewash he manger's influence is decidedly limited. No offence Reillers but only 3 of the current Cork team would get on the Kilkenny team. Even when Cork put this behind them, that problem will still remain.
Only Ronan Curran, Ben O Connor and Tom Kenny would get on the Cats. Maybe the players, Frank Murphy and Gerald would be better off sitting down talking about that, because when all this is over, whatever the rights and wrongs of it , that problem will remain.
I will state it here now, I would happily put my mortgage on it, that Cork have absolutely no chance of the all-ireland in 2009 at hurling. None. Its an absolute shambles.

Quote from: AZOffaly on November 06, 2008, 07:03:28 PM
Howye lads,

I haven't been able to keep up to date with this issue , damned work, but every snippet I catch reinforces my opinion that there needs to be a clear out down there, at County Board level, at least.

Quote from: belleaqua on November 06, 2008, 07:37:32 PM

Quotereinforces my opinion that there needs to be a clear out down there, at County Board level, at least.

Can only agree with that but with the nature of GAA politics especially in Cork makes this seem seriously unlikely.

Can I ask the supporters and opponents of the Cork players a couple of questions, and help me tease this out. Im trying to look at this impartially and see where a possible solution could be found.

Do they believe the Cork hurlers are acting in what they believe to be in the best interests of Cork hurling? Yes, 100% so.
Do they believe Gerald McCarthy is acting in what he believes are in the best interests of Cork hurling? In his oppinion yes, but he's not a good manager, I think in some way he knows that but stays on because his pride is wounded.l

If the answer is yes to both then its fair to say the county board is the problem. There is very little prospect of serious change there I would imagine, lets says there wont be change for arguments sake. Unfortunately the Cork County Board seems to be the only constant permanent fixture in this debacle and will continue to be for some while? Sadly I agree. Permanent fixture, Murphy is the longest serving CB chariman in the country. An immovable force.

So, how do Gerald McCarthy and the Cork hurlers sort it out? Which is the lesser of two possible evils?

a) Does McCarthy resign?  Is that in the best interests of Cork hurling and what will be the consequences? (short and long term)
The players do what the one thing they can do that has any affect..refuse to play, but it's not working this time because this is exactly what the board wants, they know that they are binded by arbitrition and that they wont break it, meaning they know full well that they can't and wont strike and instead they'll walk away, which I firmly believe was the CCB's plan in the first place. Does Gerald resign, ya, but that's cause I think he's a bad manager. He wont resign and sadly he can't see that he's been dangled by a string by Murphy.
b) Do the players continue their stance? Is that in the best interests of Cork hurling and what will be the consequences? (long term)
They will continue till a solution is found. Is it in the best interest, they are willing to sacrifice their playing careers, they are willing to end their careers not in a blaze of glory that they ALL deserve but in controversy and hate..etc. In both long and short term, yes it's best.

Lets say McCarthy steps down, Cork players get the man they want and in next 3 years they fail to win an All-Ireland title....will anything change regarding manager selection process?
McCarthy stepping down alone will be like putting a plaster on a gun shot wound. The only way things can progress is when sorry if we ever get rid of the board. Getting rid of McCarthy is a very, very short term solution and we'll be down this track a year or so latter again. McCarthy isn't the big problem here, he's just a pawn who can't see what he's got himself mixed up in.
McCarthy stays on....same result, Cork win nothing in two years....same question...will this change anything regarding the manager selection process?
Same as the answer above.
Sorry if this is confusing but it would help clear up a few things for me anyway!

Quote from: theskull1 on November 06, 2008, 07:45:04 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on November 06, 2008, 07:03:28 PM
Howye lads,

I haven't been able to keep up to date with this issue , damned work, but every snippet I catch reinforces my opinion that there needs to be a clear out down there, at County Board level, at least.

But there isn't anybody at a club administration level demanding change in executive personnel. And as well as that, what was it 88-15 voted to ratify GMcC as manager? Who's going to be the champion of change within the structures of the orginisation? It's all very well to call for change here, but a different thing to find the individuals prepared to take on these roles. Good administrators prepared to take on these jobs are sadly lacking

Quote from: The GAA on November 06, 2008, 07:55:58 PM

I think there is an obvious short term solution for all sides. could the players' preference, ger cunningham, not be added to the managment team to enhance the training and reinvigorate the whole camp?

surely this would placate everyone and enable the whole thing to move on?

i think if ben o'connor has spoken about a strike he is very wrong given that they undertook not to do so a year ago.

Quote from: AZOffaly on November 06, 2008, 07:03:28 PM
Howye lads,

I haven't been able to keep up to date with this issue , damned work, but every snippet I catch reinforces my opinion that there needs to be a clear out down there, at County Board level, at least. However, I was disappointed to read that Ben O'Connor, I think, effectively admitted this was a 'strike' and they would be hoping no-one would cross the 'picket line'. I abhor GAA Player Strikes, because it is both presumptious and smacks of militancy. I have no problem, as I've stated, with a lad walking out of a panel at the start of the year because he feels he either can't commit, or doesn't want to commit, for whatever reason. But to encourage, or even unintentionally intimidate younger players, is beyond the pale as far as I am concerned.

Anyway, thats just my general feeling without getting into the specifics of this particular issue.

On a slightly lighter note, I received this in a text message. You have to sing it to the air everyone knows.

'How oft, in my thoughts, are the hurlers on strike,
Any chance they might actually play?
Do they want a new boss, do they not give a toss,
Is it just that they want to be paid?
Is the training not great? Are the drills out of date?
Is the pasta not there for their tea........?
Will the manager go?
Frank Murphy says No!
On the banks of my own lovellllllllyyyy Leeeeeeeee.'

Quote from: Reillers on November 06, 2008, 06:40:29 PM

Quote from: orangeman on November 06, 2008, 06:00:24 PM

Quote from: Reillers on November 06, 2008, 05:56:21 PM
Billy and Co..who think the players are just a bunch of whingers, spoiled brats who are just throwing their dummies of the pram..

From AFR.

What about dealing with the real problem ?
By Slán go Fóill Saturday November 8th, 2008

A BREAK is as good as a rest, or so they say, so it was off to Barcelona for four days during mid-term. But nothing really changes, does it? Four days, three of them lashing rain all day long, we thought we were back at home.

But what we did see is that there is a very thin, fine line between genius and mad man and when we stared in awe at Gaudi's architecture in various parts of the city we just couldn't decide which he was, genius or mad man. Maybe a bit of both. It brought into mind our GAA situation here in Cork.

Are we all geniuses or mad men, especially in light of what Cork hurling is going through again? Only geniuses could have steered the GAA through the past 120 years, crisis after crisis, and delivered it improved and thriving on to the next generation. Only mad men could put up with some of the crises we create and I include the present hurling crisis in that. Not a single word of GAA for four whole days, we arrived home to find the newspapers full of the Cork story. Confidential documents leaked to the press, lack of trust and confidence, back-stabbing and accusations and, again, outsiders butting in, telling us what we should do and who to blame.

Where are we going and what are we doing? Are we seriously saying that the crisis with the Cork hurling team is the most pressing problem facing the GAA in Cork today? Well, gentlemen of the Cork hurling team, Gerald McCarthy and fellow mentors, members of the County Board, I have news for you today. It isn't.

This 'crisis' will be done and dusted in time for the National Leagues in the Spring, one way or the other, but the real problems facing Cork GAA will still be with us. Why doesn't the media deal properly with those problems? Because they aren't sensational enough and we all want to put our heads in the sand and pretend they don't exist. But they do, and they are not going away because very little is being done to solve them.

Do you want a list of the Top Twenty problems facing the GAA in Cork today, every one of them more important than Cork hurlers going on strike, again? Well, here they are – 1. An unacceptable fallout of players between the ages of 12 and 18. 2. an unacceptable fixtures structure that penalises clubs and club players. 3. an elitist system that forces out the less able players. 4. long, fine weeks of summer going by with no serious club activity. 5. no plan of action to cater for the growing, young populations in many urban centres. 6. declining standards in both football and hurling, especially in the city. 7. declining crowds at most club games. 8. the ever-rising cost of running clubs today. 9. total shortage of full-time coaches to service the schools. 10. deplorable lack of promotion of Gaelic games by the County Board in opposition to growing interest in other codes.

11. severe lack of voluntary workers in most clubs. 12. major lack of new, young referees and a very poor standard of refereeing all round. 13. unrealistic Co. Board deadlines that force teams to play three championship games within a week. 14. meaningless conventions that merely serve to emphasise the lack of proper democracy at grassroots' level. 15. an amateur organisation that sees some people making plenty money under the table but the big bosses can't even identify the tables. 16. a stadium that is antiquated and the most uncomfortable in the country. 17. a stagnant association that has seen only one new club formed, with great opposition, during the past quarter century. 18. too many Boards, all vying for their own slice of time, pitches and players. 19. too many ex-players putting nothing back into the clubs. 20. antiquated, dysfunctional divisional boundaries kept in place by vested interests. Etc,. etc.

None of these items are classed as crisis but 25 players refusing to play for their county is a major crisis. At this stage I wouldn't even put the hurling situation in my Top Fifty problems facing the GAA in Cork. It means nothing to me or my club whether or not we put a Cork hurling team on the pitch in 2009, except that we might be deprived of some good days out next summer.

All the above items directly affect my club and the players in it. That is the real GAA, that is the GAA that should be taking up our attention. Why isn't it? Because all the above problems are internal GAA problems and have no interest among the general public, no media interest.

There's no news in a junior club in West Cork being idle for thirteen weeks of the summer and then being forced to play three important games in a week. Or in players not being able to fix family holidays because nobody can give them a definite date for the next round of the championship. Or in a junior B championship starting at the end of October. Or being accosted at every hand's turn by clubs running large lotteries to fund developments or running costs. Or schools dropping out of Sciath na Scol because no coaches are provided to help them out.

What parents want to be told that the GAA under age club is not a baby-sitting service and that they should make some effort to give a hand while their kids are playing? Does it matter to the media if your under-12 hurling team, that you put so much effort into all during a very successful summer, leaves you high and dry when soccer and rugby start up again?

As I asked at the start, are we all geniuses or mad men? Sometimes I wonder. Maybe a greater influx of women into the association at all levels would help solve many of our problems. But the lack of effort in involving women is another ongoing problem in a male-dominated organisation.

I suppose as long as the games continue, we will always be satisfied with less than we should.

.....................

That's before I even go near any of the problems with Cork senior hurling. That's a taste of what we've to put up with. And ALL of that, not some, not most. ALL OF THAT is the CCB's fault and no one elses.

Totally way off the mark -

Has your club any representation on the county board ?

Do they send delegates to meetings ? If os, what do your delegates do about the above ?


What I'm trying to say is that you can't leave all these problems at Frank Murphy's door and I'm not a supporter of Frank Murphy by the way. I merely respect what he has done for the association over a very long period of time - in fact most of his life.

Way off the mark?? Read my last posts.

Respect what he's done, I respect the fact that he has put so much time in to it (for not a bad wage) but did you not read any of the above post except the bit you highlighted..clearly not. What he's doing now is running Cork GAA into the ground and that is the CCB's fault and their fault alone. How can you respect that??

When you look at results of voting from the floor. You see results like margins like 82-6 or 84-8....etc.
What does this prove, that every time they have to vote on something serious they all tend to vote in the exact same way, my point being that people are not voting in conscience, they are doing what they are told.
When the same bunch who voted overwhelmingly to appoint Teddy Holland vote overwhelmingly to sack him a few months later then you'd have to wonder who's doing the thinking in that meeting room.

Murphy is the puppet master and he's everyone but the players on a string.

The man rules the roost and he's enough turkeys around to help him maintain this power..FACT. He can not be moved until he wants to go.

Quote from: Reillers on November 06, 2008, 08:28:15 PM

Quote from: The GAA on November 06, 2008, 07:55:58 PM

I think there is an obvious short term solution for all sides. could the players' preference, ger cunningham, not be added to the managment team to enhance the training and reinvigorate the whole camp?

surely this would placate everyone and enable the whole thing to move on?

i think if ben o'connor has spoken about a strike he is very wrong given that they undertook not to do so a year ago.

That's all good and great for a short term sollution. But NOTHING can move on untill the board is gone.

Quote from: Kerry Mike on November 06, 2008, 09:47:54 PM
John Gardiner, Cork Captain in 2008 on Prime Time in a few mins, the country is in real Shite and this crap in langerlands get on prime time FFS.

QuoteI am sure it was a slip on John Gardiners part to say "we have no interest in money at the moment"!

Quote from: Tatler Jack on November 06, 2008, 10:34:23 PM

QuoteI am sure it was a slip on John Gardiners part to say "we have no interest in money at the moment"!

Might not be - DOnal Og has been quite explicit in saying that the log term objective of the GPA is to have players paid.

The rest of your piece about the Cork CB is typical stereotpe stuff - I know our club delegate does not go in just to rubber stamp everything and he is a man of ability and integrity who would agree with the executive on some issues and argue against on others. This lazy analysiis that likens the Cork CB to the old Soviet politburo is convenient for those who are unable to entertain the notion that the players might share some blame.!!!

Quote from: theskull1 on November 06, 2008, 10:22:44 PM
" we've no interest in money ......at the moment"

Ooops :-X

Quote from: orangeman on November 06, 2008, 11:12:30 PM

Quote from: Tatler Jack on November 06, 2008, 10:34:23 PM

QuoteI am sure it was a slip on John Gardiners part to say "we have no interest in money at the moment"!

Might not be - DOnal Og has been quite explicit in saying that the log term objective of the GPA is to have players paid.

The rest of your piece about the Cork CB is typical stereotpe stuff - I know our club delegate does not go in just to rubber stamp everything and he is a man of ability and integrity who would agree with the executive on some issues and argue against on others. This lazy analysiis that likens the Cork CB to the old Soviet politburo is convenient for those who are unable to entertain the notion that the players might share some blame.!!!

[/b]


There is NO way that the Cork county board delegates just turn up, do whatever Frank tells them to do and go home again - NO CHANCE.

Quote from: orangeman on November 06, 2008, 10:11:50 PM

Quote from: Reillers on November 06, 2008, 06:40:29 PM

Quote from: orangeman on November 06, 2008, 06:00:24 PM

Quote from: Reillers on November 06, 2008, 05:56:21 PM
Billy and Co..who think the players are just a bunch of whingers, spoiled brats who are just throwing their dummies of the pram..

From AFR.

What about dealing with the real problem ?
By Slán go Fóill Saturday November 8th, 2008

A BREAK is as good as a rest, or so they say, so it was off to Barcelona for four days during mid-term. But nothing really changes, does it? Four days, three of them lashing rain all day long, we thought we were back at home.

But what we did see is that there is a very thin, fine line between genius and mad man and when we stared in awe at Gaudi's architecture in various parts of the city we just couldn't decide which he was, genius or mad man. Maybe a bit of both. It brought into mind our GAA situation here in Cork.

Are we all geniuses or mad men, especially in light of what Cork hurling is going through again? Only geniuses could have steered the GAA through the past 120 years, crisis after crisis, and delivered it improved and thriving on to the next generation. Only mad men could put up with some of the crises we create and I include the present hurling crisis in that. Not a single word of GAA for four whole days, we arrived home to find the newspapers full of the Cork story. Confidential documents leaked to the press, lack of trust and confidence, back-stabbing and accusations and, again, outsiders butting in, telling us what we should do and who to blame.

Where are we going and what are we doing? Are we seriously saying that the crisis with the Cork hurling team is the most pressing problem facing the GAA in Cork today? Well, gentlemen of the Cork hurling team, Gerald McCarthy and fellow mentors, members of the County Board, I have news for you today. It isn't.

This 'crisis' will be done and dusted in time for the National Leagues in the Spring, one way or the other, but the real problems facing Cork GAA will still be with us. Why doesn't the media deal properly with those problems? Because they aren't sensational enough and we all want to put our heads in the sand and pretend they don't exist. But they do, and they are not going away because very little is being done to solve them.

Do you want a list of the Top Twenty problems facing the GAA in Cork today, every one of them more important than Cork hurlers going on strike, again? Well, here they are – 1. An unacceptable fallout of players between the ages of 12 and 18. 2. an unacceptable fixtures structure that penalises clubs and club players. 3. an elitist system that forces out the less able players. 4. long, fine weeks of summer going by with no serious club activity. 5. no plan of action to cater for the growing, young populations in many urban centres. 6. declining standards in both football and hurling, especially in the city. 7. declining crowds at most club games. 8. the ever-rising cost of running clubs today. 9. total shortage of full-time coaches to service the schools. 10. deplorable lack of promotion of Gaelic games by the County Board in opposition to growing interest in other codes.

11. severe lack of voluntary workers in most clubs. 12. major lack of new, young referees and a very poor standard of refereeing all round. 13. unrealistic Co. Board deadlines that force teams to play three championship games within a week. 14. meaningless conventions that merely serve to emphasise the lack of proper democracy at grassroots' level. 15. an amateur organisation that sees some people making plenty money under the table but the big bosses can't even identify the tables. 16. a stadium that is antiquated and the most uncomfortable in the country. 17. a stagnant association that has seen only one new club formed, with great opposition, during the past quarter century. 18. too many Boards, all vying for their own slice of time, pitches and players. 19. too many ex-players putting nothing back into the clubs. 20. antiquated, dysfunctional divisional boundaries kept in place by vested interests. Etc,. etc.

None of these items are classed as crisis but 25 players refusing to play for their county is a major crisis. At this stage I wouldn't even put the hurling situation in my Top Fifty problems facing the GAA in Cork. It means nothing to me or my club whether or not we put a Cork hurling team on the pitch in 2009, except that we might be deprived of some good days out next summer.

All the above items directly affect my club and the players in it. That is the real GAA, that is the GAA that should be taking up our attention. Why isn't it? Because all the above problems are internal GAA problems and have no interest among the general public, no media interest.

There's no news in a junior club in West Cork being idle for thirteen weeks of the summer and then being forced to play three important games in a week. Or in players not being able to fix family holidays because nobody can give them a definite date for the next round of the championship. Or in a junior B championship starting at the end of October. Or being accosted at every hand's turn by clubs running large lotteries to fund developments or running costs. Or schools dropping out of Sciath na Scol because no coaches are provided to help them out.

What parents want to be told that the GAA under age club is not a baby-sitting service and that they should make some effort to give a hand while their kids are playing? Does it matter to the media if your under-12 hurling team, that you put so much effort into all during a very successful summer, leaves you high and dry when soccer and rugby start up again?

As I asked at the start, are we all geniuses or mad men? Sometimes I wonder. Maybe a greater influx of women into the association at all levels would help solve many of our problems. But the lack of effort in involving women is another ongoing problem in a male-dominated organisation.

I suppose as long as the games continue, we will always be satisfied with less than we should.

.....................

That's before I even go near any of the problems with Cork senior hurling. That's a taste of what we've to put up with. And ALL of that, not some, not most. ALL OF THAT is the CCB's fault and no one elses.

Totally way off the mark -

Has your club any representation on the county board ?

Do they send delegates to meetings ? If os, what do your delegates do about the above ?


What I'm trying to say is that you can't leave all these problems at Frank Murphy's door and I'm not a supporter of Frank Murphy by the way. I merely respect what he has done for the association over a very long period of time - in fact most of his life.

Way off the mark?? Read my last posts.

Respect what he's done, I respect the fact that he has put so much time in to it (for not a bad wage) but did you not read any of the above post except the bit you highlighted..clearly not. What he's doing now is running Cork GAA into the ground and that is the CCB's fault and their fault alone. How can you respect that??

When you look at results of voting from the floor. You see results like margins like 82-6 or 84-8....etc.
What does this prove, that every time they have to vote on something serious they all tend to vote in the exact same way, my point being that people are not voting in conscience, they are doing what they are told.
When the same bunch who voted overwhelmingly to appoint Teddy Holland vote overwhelmingly to sack him a few months later then you'd have to wonder who's doing the thinking in that meeting room.

Murphy is the puppet master and he's everyone but the players on a string.

The man rules the roost and he's enough turkeys around to help him maintain this power..FACT. He can not be moved until he wants to go.

Your arguments were well founded up until the point where you started to attack only one person and lay the blame for the entire malaise that is Cork hurling at ONE man's door. This man came to the Cork players rescue many times in the recent past and defended them and backed them to the hilt.

The Cork players speak of a vendetta against them - I'm not sure if there is one but you certainly appear to be waging one against Frank Murphy with staements such as you have made above and in other statments - no way is Frank Murphy "enjoying" this. Absolutely NO WAY !

QuoteGardiner, I've no idea why he was on, was never good in front of the camera, I've no doubt that Donal Og and Co. will rip his head off.

Quote from: theskull1 on November 06, 2008, 11:41:12 PM
Right back at cha Reillers

Do you know the opposite to be fact?

You really are a man of certainties

Quote from: Kerry Mike on November 06, 2008, 11:47:07 PM

QuoteGardiner, I've no idea why he was on, was never good in front of the camera, I've no doubt that Donal Og and Co. will rip his head off.

Reillers: You have stated numerous times that the players are all independently minded and not led by DO'C or others so why would you now say that Donal Og and Co will rip his headoff.

The masks are slipping , Gerald McCarthy mentioned in one of his interviews that he thought the players were being led by a small militant few as did some one else from the county board.  Jaysus the dogs on the streets know they are. And if Gardiner as team Captain is not the right spoksman for the team then why didn't Donal Og go on TV tonight.

Given the Examiner report today and tonight on TV, I think these media stunts have back fired on the players given Gardiners faux pas about money.

Working in Cork and with many die hard Cork Supporters they the players are losing the public vote on this as the days go on.

BTW Is last one of last January's players demand that a player (maybe it was Donal Og) be represented on the County Board executive still on the agenda.

Quote from: Tatler Jack on November 06, 2008, 10:28:37 PM

Quote from: Kerry Mike on November 06, 2008, 09:47:54 PM
John Gardiner, Cork Captain in 2008 on Prime Time in a few mins, the country is in real Shite and this crap in langerlands get on prime time FFS.

For once KM I am in agreement with you. However I hope the panto is providing enjoyment to all in Kerry as the recession bites. Free entertainment :D

QuoteDonal Og didn't come out and speak because it would have looked too controversial

Quote from: Kerry Mike on November 07, 2008, 12:14:29 AM

Quote from: Tatler Jack on November 06, 2008, 10:28:37 PM

Quote from: Kerry Mike on November 06, 2008, 09:47:54 PM
John Gardiner, Cork Captain in 2008 on Prime Time in a few mins, the country is in real Shite and this crap in langerlands get on prime time FFS.

For once KM I am in agreement with you. However I hope the panto is providing enjoyment to all in Kerry as the recession bites. Free entertainment :D

The Cork Footballers when they play Kerry in Croke Park give us enough panto moments  ;)

But seriously no one is taking any fun out of the situation thats going on in Cork, its just in Cork its seems to be played out in the media more, we have plenty of skelping in Kerry between club and county, between officials and even between players but it gets sorted out for the better of the county.

That's what Cork need to do, forget about the media bites and the "we said this and you said that" attitude, Sit down to f**k and get it sorted out.

Quote from: Kerry Mike on November 07, 2008, 12:23:56 AM

QuoteDonal Og didn't come out and speak because it would have looked too controversial

Why controversial?  

He has been their unofficial spokeman for the last few years and has never been shy of the camera before, they had a great opportunity on prime time TV tonight to clearly articulate their points accross to the public and maybe win back some public support but I think they blew it.  

When you need an important speech to be made you put your best spokesman out, I'd rather listen to Obama than Bush anyday. As yo useems ot have inside infoi was there a players vote as to who went on TV or was it chosen beten the "and Co" group ?

QuoteThe Cork Footballers when they play Kerry in Croke Park give us enough panto moments  

Quote
Panto moments..does that include beating ye over and over again..I find it very entertaining as well, I'm glad we agree.

Quote from: Kerry Mike on November 07, 2008, 12:32:03 AM

QuoteThe Cork Footballers when they play Kerry in Croke Park give us enough panto moments  

Quote
Panto moments..does that include beating ye over and over again..I find it very entertaining as well, I'm glad we agree.

Read my post again ladeen it mentions Croke Park , remember that field up in the REAL capital where the Langers have NEVER beaten us in 6 games. But I should not mock your ignorance, you did after all call Frank Murphy the County Chariman in an earlier posting  :P

Quote from: Top of the hill on November 07, 2008, 12:57:28 AM
Sorry to butt in to this but i have spent the last coupel of hours catching up on this instead of going to bed but i have a couple of questions for Reillers

1. Do you really believe the cork players have the backing of the majority of GAA followers?

2. Do you really expect people to  believe that Frank Murphy can exert a "puppet master" like control over 80+ (that many?) CCB members/delegates but at the same time believe that 25-28 of the cork players could NOT be influenced by 2-5 other (ringleaders ro senior members or whatever) as is claimed by the players' statement?

I am not trying to be funny when asking this. I just want a bit of clarification on these issues.

Quote from: Reillers on November 07, 2008, 06:45:36 AM

Quote from: Top of the hill on November 07, 2008, 12:57:28 AM
Sorry to butt in to this but i have spent the last coupel of hours catching up on this instead of going to bed but i have a couple of questions for Reillers

1. Do you really believe the cork players have the backing of the majority of GAA followers?

2. Do you really expect people to  believe that Frank Murphy can exert a "puppet master" like control over 80+ (that many?) CCB members/delegates but at the same time believe that 25-28 of the cork players could NOT be influenced by 2-5 other (ringleaders ro senior members or whatever) as is claimed by the players' statement?

I am not trying to be funny when asking this. I just want a bit of clarification on these issues.

No don't think the players have the backing of the majoirty.
Yes I do expect people to believe, people with half a brain anyway, that Murphy is the puppet master controling 80 plus people, he has for a very long time and the 25-28 man panel are not led by 2 plus people. All points I've said more then a few times on here.

Quote from: theskull1 on November 07, 2008, 10:30:59 AM
Reillers is very lucky to live in a world regardless of the complexities, where everything he believes is a cast iron certainty. We all need to realise this and hopefully we all will come to understand the frustrations he has with all of us who possess a different viewpoint to his black and white world. You would throw insults to the rest of us to if you were him.

Quote from: Uladh on November 07, 2008, 10:36:50 AM

You can only be lead if you wish to be KM.

On another point that someone made, the cork footballers will have to suporrt the hurlers given that the hurlers ot the whole jobsorted for them last year and backed them to the hilt.

Quote from: Uladh on November 07, 2008, 10:36:50 AM

You can only be lead if you wish to be KM.

On another point that someone made, the cork footballers will have to suporrt the hurlers given that the hurlers ot the whole jobsorted for them last year and backed them to the hilt.

Quote from: theskull1 on November 07, 2008, 10:48:34 AM

Quote from: Uladh on November 07, 2008, 10:36:50 AM

You can only be lead if you wish to be KM.

On another point that someone made, the cork footballers will have to suporrt the hurlers given that the hurlers ot the whole jobsorted for them last year and backed them to the hilt.

Aye thats alright if you've a few years behind you Uladh to develop as an individual. Young lads are a bit like sheep and are easily persuaded to do other peoples bidding. I should know...sure wasn't I one myself at a time

Quote from: orangeman on November 07, 2008, 10:51:45 AM

Quote from: theskull1 on November 07, 2008, 10:48:34 AM

Quote from: Uladh on November 07, 2008, 10:36:50 AM

You can only be lead if you wish to be KM.

On another point that someone made, the cork footballers will have to suporrt the hurlers given that the hurlers ot the whole jobsorted for them last year and backed them to the hilt.

Aye thats alright if you've a few years behind you Uladh to develop as an individual. Young lads are a bit like sheep and are easily persuaded to do other peoples bidding. I should know...sure wasn't I one myself at a time

I think you're wrong there - Reillers would have us believe that all the Cork club delegates who I assume are not young lads also follow like sheep - surely both can't be true ??

Quote from: orangeman on November 07, 2008, 10:47:59 AM

Quote from: Uladh on November 07, 2008, 10:36:50 AM

You can only be lead if you wish to be KM.

On another point that someone made, the cork footballers will have to suporrt the hurlers given that the hurlers ot the whole jobsorted for them last year and backed them to the hilt.

Conor Counihan has already informed his players that he will resign if they join with the hurlers so the stakes are raised yet again.

Quote from: Uladh on November 07, 2008, 11:33:32 AM

Quote from: orangeman on November 07, 2008, 10:47:59 AM

Quote from: Uladh on November 07, 2008, 10:36:50 AM

You can only be lead if you wish to be KM.

On another point that someone made, the cork footballers will have to suporrt the hurlers given that the hurlers ot the whole jobsorted for them last year and backed them to the hilt.

Conor Counihan has already informed his players that he will resign if they join with the hurlers so the stakes are raised yet again.

Where'd you read that OM?

Quote from: orangeman on November 07, 2008, 09:38:45 AM
Charlie Carter has an interesting view on the Cork players :


" I find it hard to believe that there are young players in Cork so adamant that they are unwilling to play for a manager some of them have only been involved with for a year.I have no doubt that there is strong pressure being put on them by the more senior, battle hardended players in the squad. Effectively the Cork jersey is being held to ransom once again. To my mind it should be an honour to wear the jersey and that jersey is always something you had on when you are finished with it.  If players aren't happy they should move on but should not stand in the way of others who want to play. The players are really risking a legacy they have created themselves, but clearly they are prepared for that."



You can't really argue with this view which is held by a lot of people, except the Cork players of course.

Quote from: Zulu on November 07, 2008, 11:39:40 AM
I can understand the skepticism of people regarding Frank Murphy's abilities to get club delegates to support the CB position but all you have to do is look at the track record of club delegates around the country to realise how spineless, incompetent and dishorourable many of them are. Ask yourselves this, if club delegates really represented the views of their clubs and if clubs directed to the CB how their county should be run do you think we would still have club championships yet to be finished? There are numerous examples of the turkey's (club delegates) voting for Christmas each year. I'll give you an example of one such situation involving my own club, we approached a large number of neighbouring clubs with a proposal to get a better structure to the club championship. We wanted a fixture list at the start of the year, a strict enforcement of the 10 day rule before IC games (not 2 months as seemed to be the case), and a few other issues designed to better the lot of the club player. They all agreed to support this prior to the CB meeting but at the meeting only one club actually supported our delegate.

Only someone incredibly niavie or with little understanding of GAA politics could interpret votes in the GAA as being the 'democratic' wish of those who voted, most simply aren't. Votes are often bought for favours and delegates often vote for something out of spite, i.e we won't support this because that shower proposed it (this happens, believe me). I hate the politics that goes on the GAA it is a cancer in our association and the CCB are amongst the very worst in the country.

If you can't believe that some don't have the best interests of the GAA first and foremost then you must have had little dealings with any CB. The reality is that nobody on a CB executive should be picking the IC managers, it should be done by an independent body primarliy made up of people who know what they are talking about (ex players and managers) and then the clubs can accept or reject their nomination.

Someone on this thread said, when referring to the 20 things wrong with Cork GAA, that that is happening in every county and others in lambasting the Cork players used examples of even worse treatment in Derry and Antrim. For f**k sake can ye not see how ridiculous that is? Ye give out about Cork players striking and justify it becasue other players put up with far worse treatment, you couldn't make that up. It isn't player power that the media and internet discussion boards should be debating it is CB incompetence, remember people like Frank Murphy are paid by you and me to run the GAA yet someone can come up with at least 20 more iproblems with Cork GAA outside of their flagship team striking 3 times in 6 years and few on here seem to think the full-time paid officals have serious questions to answer. 'Player power' me hole, it is the least of our worries.

Quote from: Zulu on November 07, 2008, 11:39:40 AM
Ask yourselves this, if club delegates really represented the views of their clubs and if clubs directed to the CB how their county should be run do you think we would still have club championships yet to be finished?

QuoteAu contraire - it's now one of the biggest worries we have currently - we can't have the tail wagging the dog !

Quote from: Zulu on November 07, 2008, 12:21:41 PM
Not entierly cornafean, though I agree that is also an issue but you'll find in every county some clubs who can get games called off and others who can't. The bottom line here is there are few posters on this board who are even remotely satisfied with their CB that must say something about the system.

QuoteAu contraire - it's now one of the biggest worries we have currently - we can't have the tail wagging the dog !

Nonsense, I've made a lot of points in that post and you can only highlight the last line and then say you disagree without any supporting argument. If the 'dog' isn't doing a good job then yes the 'tail' has every right to try and lead for a while but I'll wait for you to put together an argument before i can discuss this futher.

Jonnycool, Kilkenny is a happy camp not because Brian Cody is such a great manager but because everyone is pulling in the same direction, manager, players, CB, clubs, schools etc. In Cork it is the exact opposite and the players are not to blame for most of that.

Quote from: Top of the hill on November 07, 2008, 11:32:10 AM

Quote from: orangeman on November 07, 2008, 10:51:45 AM

Quote from: theskull1 on November 07, 2008, 10:48:34 AM

Quote from: Uladh on November 07, 2008, 10:36:50 AM

You can only be lead if you wish to be KM.

On another point that someone made, the cork footballers will have to suporrt the hurlers given that the hurlers ot the whole jobsorted for them last year and backed them to the hilt.

Aye thats alright if you've a few years behind you Uladh to develop as an individual. Young lads are a bit like sheep and are easily persuaded to do other peoples bidding. I should know...sure wasn't I one myself at a time

I think you're wrong there - Reillers would have us believe that all the Cork club delegates who I assume are not young lads also follow like sheep - surely both can't be true ??

That's exactly the point i can't accept. We are supposed to believe Murphy can control the CCB, but there is no way some of the senior players could influence the younger lads.

This has happened in every panel i have been part of over the years. New young players will not want to stand up in the face of the more "respected" panel members for fear of being ostracised by the rest. It is the case on a club panel and probably more so on a county panel.

Quote from: Zulu on November 07, 2008, 12:21:41 PM

Jonnycool, Kilkenny is a happy camp not because Brian Cody is such a great manager but because everyone is pulling in the same direction, manager, players, CB, clubs, schools etc. In Cork it is the exact opposite and the players are not to blame for most of that.

Quote from: orangeman on November 07, 2008, 12:35:38 PM

Quote from: Zulu on November 07, 2008, 12:21:41 PM
Not entierly cornafean, though I agree that is also an issue but you'll find in every county some clubs who can get games called off and others who can't. The bottom line here is there are few posters on this board who are even remotely satisfied with their CB that must say something about the system.

QuoteAu contraire - it's now one of the biggest worries we have currently - we can't have the tail wagging the dog !

Nonsense, I've made a lot of points in that post and you can only highlight the last line and then say you disagree without any supporting argument. If the 'dog' isn't doing a good job then yes the 'tail' has every right to try and lead for a while but I'll wait for you to put together an argument before i can discuss this futher.

Jonnycool, Kilkenny is a happy camp not because Brian Cody is such a great manager but because everyone is pulling in the same direction, manager, players, CB, clubs, schools etc. In Cork it is the exact opposite and the players are not to blame for most of that.

I can't believe you are saying that Kilkenny are great NOT because Brian Cody is such a good manager but because everyone is pulling in the same direction !!!!!!!!!!! This is simply an outragoeous statement. Wise up !


So you want back up - here's the back up - This great Cork team were going for their won 3 in a row in 2006 - but came up against an awesome team in Kilkenny who are simply the best team that have ever played hurling.

Had Cork pulled off the 3 in a row they could have done 4 or 5 in a row -

However they didn't - but they put together a great run of final appearances and 2 in a row and contested a final in 2006 for the 3 in a row.

Cork in 2006 were on the crest of a wave -

So, to use your term, was everyone pulling in the same direction - the manager, schools, county board, clubs etc ??

Frank Murphy and the county board haven't changed much in the interim.


ONLY 2 THINGS HAVE CHANGED IN THE INTERIM AND IT'S HIGH TIME THE PLAYERS REALISED THIS :

Kilkenny have got better and Cork have got worse.

Cork's great team are now at the end of the road sadly. They were a great team but are on the wane - it's no shame.


But it's not on to start blaming the managment or the county board.

Quote from: orangeman on November 07, 2008, 01:19:15 PM
Half of them are prehistoric and great friends with the man himself, the others genuinely feel if they are the first to speak they will be "dealt with,"..like I said earlier, the CCB controls everything in Cork GAA..they can control what refs they get, what games they get which is key to bringing in money..etc.



How on earth then did Sarsfields win the County championship then ? A biased referee ???

Quote from: orangeman on November 07, 2008, 12:35:38 PM

Quote from: Zulu on November 07, 2008, 12:21:41 PM
Not entierly cornafean, though I agree that is also an issue but you'll find in every county some clubs who can get games called off and others who can't. The bottom line here is there are few posters on this board who are even remotely satisfied with their CB that must say something about the system.

QuoteAu contraire - it's now one of the biggest worries we have currently - we can't have the tail wagging the dog !

Nonsense, I've made a lot of points in that post and you can only highlight the last line and then say you disagree without any supporting argument. If the 'dog' isn't doing a good job then yes the 'tail' has every right to try and lead for a while but I'll wait for you to put together an argument before i can discuss this futher.

Jonnycool, Kilkenny is a happy camp not because Brian Cody is such a great manager but because everyone is pulling in the same direction, manager, players, CB, clubs, schools etc. In Cork it is the exact opposite and the players are not to blame for most of that.

I can't believe you are saying that Kilkenny are great NOT because Brian Cody is such a good manager but because everyone is pulling in the same direction !!!!!!!!!!! This is simply an outragoeous statement. Wise up !


So you want back up - here's the back up - This great Cork team were going for their won 3 in a row in 2006 - but came up against an awesome team in Kilkenny who are simply the best team that have ever played hurling.

Had Cork pulled off the 3 in a row they could have done 4 or 5 in a row -

However they didn't - but they put together a great run of final appearances and 2 in a row and contested a final in 2006 for the 3 in a row.

Cork in 2006 were on the crest of a wave -

So, to use your term, was everyone pulling in the same direction - the manager, schools, county board, clubs etc ??

Frank Murphy and the county board haven't changed much in the interim.


ONLY 2 THINGS HAVE CHANGED IN THE INTERIM AND IT'S HIGH TIME THE PLAYERS REALISED THIS :

Kilkenny have got better and Cork have got worse.

Cork's great team are now at the end of the road sadly. They were a great team but are on the wane - it's no shame.


But it's not on to start blaming the managment or the county board.

Quote from: Reillers on November 07, 2008, 01:25:47 PM

Quote from: orangeman on November 07, 2008, 01:19:15 PM
Half of them are prehistoric and great friends with the man himself, the others genuinely feel if they are the first to speak they will be "dealt with,"..like I said earlier, the CCB controls everything in Cork GAA..they can control what refs they get, what games they get which is key to bringing in money..etc.



How on earth then did Sarsfields win the County championship then ? A biased referee ???

Did you see Sars sticking their head of the parpert saying that Murphy was a prehistoric power hungry dictator lately..I can't recall that happening?

Quote from: Zulu on November 07, 2008, 01:26:12 PM

Quote from: orangeman on November 07, 2008, 12:35:38 PM

Quote from: Zulu on November 07, 2008, 12:21:41 PM
Not entierly cornafean, though I agree that is also an issue but you'll find in every county some clubs who can get games called off and others who can't. The bottom line here is there are few posters on this board who are even remotely satisfied with their CB that must say something about the system.

QuoteAu contraire - it's now one of the biggest worries we have currently - we can't have the tail wagging the dog !

Nonsense, I've made a lot of points in that post and you can only highlight the last line and then say you disagree without any supporting argument. If the 'dog' isn't doing a good job then yes the 'tail' has every right to try and lead for a while but I'll wait for you to put together an argument before i can discuss this futher.

Jonnycool, Kilkenny is a happy camp not because Brian Cody is such a great manager but because everyone is pulling in the same direction, manager, players, CB, clubs, schools etc. In Cork it is the exact opposite and the players are not to blame for most of that.

I can't believe you are saying that Kilkenny are great NOT because Brian Cody is such a good manager but because everyone is pulling in the same direction !!!!!!!!!!! This is simply an outragoeous statement. Wise up !


So you want back up - here's the back up - This great Cork team were going for their won 3 in a row in 2006 - but came up against an awesome team in Kilkenny who are simply the best team that have ever played hurling.

Had Cork pulled off the 3 in a row they could have done 4 or 5 in a row -

However they didn't - but they put together a great run of final appearances and 2 in a row and contested a final in 2006 for the 3 in a row.

Cork in 2006 were on the crest of a wave -

So, to use your term, was everyone pulling in the same direction - the manager, schools, county board, clubs etc ??

Frank Murphy and the county board haven't changed much in the interim.


ONLY 2 THINGS HAVE CHANGED IN THE INTERIM AND IT'S HIGH TIME THE PLAYERS REALISED THIS :

Kilkenny have got better and Cork have got worse.

Cork's great team are now at the end of the road sadly. They were a great team but are on the wane - it's no shame.


But it's not on to start blaming the managment or the county board.

I didn't say Cody wasn't a great manager but he is working with great players and with great support from the CB and everyone is on the same page and therefore he gets the maximum from the talent at his disposal. This isn't the case in Cork.And why do you think Kilkenny are constantly bringing quality players through the system? I'll tell you why, because they have a system of developing hurling through the schools and clubs, Cork don't.

I'm not sure what your point about Cork's All Ireland is, they won AI's under JBM, Donal and John Allen all managers they were happy with and under whom the CB didn't interfere so the evidence would suggest that if you keep these lads happy they'll reward you with titles. What does the CB do? They try and rock the boat.

I'm amazed that you can credit Brain Cody with winning AI's for Kilkenny and Gerald McCarthy for the Clare and Galway wins yet you blame the Cork players for not winning AI's. Are managers responsible for success and players for failures?

Oh and you still haven't responded to the content of my first post, that's two replies without agreeing or disagreeing with the content of my post


Jonny these issues about Cork hurling have been in the public domain for a long time it's just now people that familiar with Cork are taking notice. Many people I know think Cork GAA is dying on it's feet with little forward thinking on how to develop football or hurling in the county.