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GAA Discussion => GAA Discussion => Topic started by: T Fearon on September 24, 2008, 09:04:38 AM

Title: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: T Fearon on September 24, 2008, 09:04:38 AM
 I mean should the record books detail All Ireland winners as follows (for example)

Tyrone 3 (two backdoors).


It is in my opinion a qualification that needs to be made
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: robertemmet on September 24, 2008, 09:05:35 AM
[silence]
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: Sideshow Bob on September 24, 2008, 10:07:16 AM
Your point being Tyrone have 3 All irelands and........... ?
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: Kerrygal on September 24, 2008, 10:15:11 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 24, 2008, 09:04:38 AM
I mean should the record books detail All Ireland winners as follows (for example)

Tyrone 3 (two backdoors).


It is in my opinion a qualification that needs to be made

hmmm maybe, yes. But let's say something a bit more disparaging than just 'backdoor' in our efforts to denigrate Tyrone and take from a superb achievement in winning an All-Ireland.
Let's say
Tyrone - 2008 (ah but needed the old backdoor. Tut tut - so it only counts for half an All-Ireland).
Kerry - 2006 (ah but needed the old backdoor AND it was a soft All-Ireland. Doesn't count at all).

Yup - history books definitely need 'qualification' alright.
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: T Fearon on September 24, 2008, 10:40:06 AM
It is an important point though. Those who won All Ireland titles without being defeated at any stage of the campaign are deserving of more honour than those who needed a second bite of the cherry.
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: Donagh on September 24, 2008, 10:44:03 AM
Quote from: Kerrygal on September 24, 2008, 10:15:11 AM

Yup - history books definitely need 'qualification' alright.

A simple asterix* after their names should do the trick.
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: rrhf on September 24, 2008, 10:44:49 AM
Quantity over quality anyday, mind ye Tyrones wins have both in spades.
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: Kerrygal on September 24, 2008, 10:49:43 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 24, 2008, 10:40:06 AM
It is an important point though. Those who won All Ireland titles without being defeated at any stage of the campaign are deserving of more honour than those who needed a second bite of the cherry.

Maybe so. But when the new Championship format was accepted, I think we should have understood it to mean that all All-Irelands would be equal. In 2005 Tyrone played 10 games to win the title - you could say that's a more honourable All-Ireland than any won in the 70s/80s/90s but in truth to win Sam at any stage is an honourable achievement. It's clear from the outset of the Championship that the backdoor is there - every team has equal opportunity to use it (provincial champions don't get a second chance but at the start of the year, they know that it's a safety net if they get knocked out in an early stage).
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: Billys Boots on September 24, 2008, 11:01:17 AM
Kerrygal, welcome to Tonyland, where anything that isn't from Armagh, Catholic-Glasgow, Jewish North-London (or free to Tony) is bogus.  It will keep you amused, when you get used to it.
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: T Fearon on September 24, 2008, 11:06:47 AM
Kerrygal I beg to differ. Winning All Ireland undefeated is what I would term a pure unblemished All Ireland. This year's All Ireland finalists involved teams from Ulster and Munster who cannot even call themselves Munster or Ulster Champions.

I think the record books should , as an aid to those unfamiliar with our games) include an asterisk, as Donagh says, against the years when All Ireland's were won via the back door.
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: mannix on September 24, 2008, 11:07:17 AM
STUPID THREAD?
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: ONeill on September 24, 2008, 11:08:45 AM
Lads, just nod your head and say 'yes Tony'.
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: Over the Bar on September 24, 2008, 11:19:07 AM
QuoteSTUPID THREAD?

Do ye need to ask?  It was after-all started by the Buffoon of the Board!  :D
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: ziggysego on September 24, 2008, 11:19:37 AM
Yes Tony, want some milk?
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: Final Whistle on September 24, 2008, 11:28:00 AM
he would rather have some big macs ziggy.
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: Billys Boots on September 24, 2008, 11:38:31 AM
QuoteThis year's All Ireland finalists involved teams from Ulster and Munster who cannot even call themselves Munster or Ulster Champions.

Let's face it, the provincial 'championships' are largely irrelevant to any teams with greater than local ambition.
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: theskull1 on September 24, 2008, 11:40:08 AM
Jesus I thought that this thread was a bit juvenile, even for the likes of Tony Fearon

Has your young lad found your password Tony?

He certainly is a chip off the old block  :D

Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: Gnevin on September 24, 2008, 12:00:03 PM
I think leaps years should also have a distinction made as the winner that year had an extra day to train . ;)
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: Hardy on September 24, 2008, 12:17:17 PM
Quote from: Donagh on September 24, 2008, 10:44:03 AM
Quote from: Kerrygal on September 24, 2008, 10:15:11 AM

Yup - history books definitely need 'qualification' alright.

A simple asterix* after their names should do the trick.

Tyrone 2008 (http://www.geocities.com/hardyarse/asterix.jpg)
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: cornafean on September 24, 2008, 01:32:03 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 24, 2008, 09:04:38 AM
I mean should the record books detail All Ireland winners as follows (for example)

Tyrone 3 (two backdoors).


It is in my opinion a qualification that needs to be made

Tyrone would not have needed the backdoor in 2005 were it not for a combination of refereeing errors and Armagh roughhousing in that year's Ulster final replay.
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: Donagh on September 24, 2008, 01:32:20 PM
Quote from: Hardy on September 24, 2008, 12:17:17 PM
Quote from: Donagh on September 24, 2008, 10:44:03 AM
Quote from: Kerrygal on September 24, 2008, 10:15:11 AM

Yup - history books definitely need 'qualification' alright.

A simple asterix* after their names should do the trick.

Tyrone 2008 (http://www.geocities.com/hardyarse/asterix.jpg)

Looks good Hardy!
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: Fuzzman on September 24, 2008, 01:35:49 PM
Tony

Were you happy Tyrone won on Sunday or disappointed and why?

Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: mackers on September 24, 2008, 01:38:05 PM
Quote from: cornafean on September 24, 2008, 01:32:03 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 24, 2008, 09:04:38 AM
I mean should the record books detail All Ireland winners as follows (for example)

Tyrone 3 (two backdoors).


It is in my opinion a qualification that needs to be made

Tyrone would not have needed the backdoor in 2005 were it not for a combination of refereeing errors and Armagh roughhousing in that year's Ulster final replay.
There were refereeing mistakes, without doubt, could you give me examples of Armagh roughhousing in that game?
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: Maguire01 on September 24, 2008, 01:41:48 PM
Here, Tony's just mad that Tyrone's 'qualified' All Ireland title cost him the Belfast Telegraph's £3,000 pick the score prize fund!  :D

And Armagh obviously only want 'unqualified' titles.  ::)
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: Jinxy on September 24, 2008, 01:46:08 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 24, 2008, 09:04:38 AM
I mean should the record books detail All Ireland winners as follows (for example)

Tyrone 3 (two backdoors).


It is in my opinion a qualification that needs to be made

I concur. I don't go in for these backdoor shenanigans. We won our all-irelands through the front door. The hard way! No back doors, side doors, cat-flaps or velux roof lights necessary. :P
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: stibhan on September 24, 2008, 01:47:27 PM
Tyrone's first all-ireland* wouldn't have been through the backdoor if it wasn't for the worst refereeing display in living memory. So should Armagh's 2005 Anglo Celt title have an * against it?
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: T Fearon on September 24, 2008, 02:15:14 PM
There is no guarantee that Tyrone would have won the AI in 2005* had they not lost that year's Ulster Final replay legitimately to Armagh, as it is generally accepted that the two games against Dublin that year (which wouldn't have occurred had they beaten Armagh in Ulster) by accident provided Harte with his best team.

These asterisks have given me an idea though. Should A I Winners jersies be marked (as they do in soccer) with asterisks to indicate back door wins? Can you picture a red hand with two asterisks against it?
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: gander on September 24, 2008, 02:26:33 PM
Quote from: stibhan on September 24, 2008, 01:47:27 PM
Tyrone's first all-ireland* wouldn't have been through the backdoor if it wasn't for the worst refereeing display in living memory. So should Armagh's 2005 Anglo Celt title have an * against it?

Tyrones first all-ireland* wasn't through the back door, they won in 2003, after winning ulster!
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: stibhan on September 24, 2008, 02:35:56 PM
Quote from: gander on September 24, 2008, 02:26:33 PM
Quote from: stibhan on September 24, 2008, 01:47:27 PM
Tyrone's first all-ireland* wouldn't have been through the backdoor if it wasn't for the worst refereeing display in living memory. So should Armagh's 2005 Anglo Celt title have an * against it?

Tyrones first all-ireland* wasn't through the back door, they won in 2003, after winning ulster!

Having been there at the Ulster final and the All-Ireland final, I'm well aware of that.

I wrote 'all ireland*', the asterisk representing the back-door route...

Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: FermGael on September 24, 2008, 02:38:33 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 24, 2008, 02:15:14 PM
There is no guarantee that Tyrone would have won the AI in 2005* had they not lost that year's Ulster Final replay legitimately to Armagh, as it is generally accepted that the two games against Dublin that year (which wouldn't have occurred had they beaten Armagh in Ulster) by accident provided Harte with his best team.

These asterisks have given me an idea though. Should A I Winners jersies be marked (as they do in soccer) with asterisks to indicate back door wins? Can you picture a red hand with two asterisks against it?

Tony I have got it.  You should get onto the Belfast Telegraph with your theory about back door All Ireland's not being real one's.
They could put Tony Fearon* beside this years results to indicate that you would have won it , if there was no backdoor.
It would only be fair
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: Bensars on September 24, 2008, 02:45:24 PM
Its totally understandable. Tonys hatred for all things Tyrone have just cost him 3 grand (plus two unsuccessful journeys to Dublin in the hope of a defeat at the hands of Dublin and Wexford respectively).  Hes hurting .
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: stibhan on September 24, 2008, 02:46:24 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 24, 2008, 02:15:14 PM
There is no guarantee that Tyrone would have won the AI in 2005* had they not lost that year's Ulster Final replay legitimately to Armagh, as it is generally accepted that the two games against Dublin that year (which wouldn't have occurred had they beaten Armagh in Ulster) by accident provided Harte with his best team.

These asterisks have given me an idea though. Should A I Winners jersies be marked (as they do in soccer) with asterisks to indicate back door wins? Can you picture a red hand with two asterisks against it?

I don't think you can mark down Harte's team selection as an accident.

You can postulate all you want about Tyrone's success but it's arguably harder to come through the back door and win it than to go through the front door. Tyrone didn't find the 2006 back-door easy, just as Armagh didn't find the 2007 one very successful either. Armagh this year got further through the front door than the back one, and they hadn't a system but aging legs and poor positioning on Bellew's part to blame for their ignominious dumping out by Wexford this year.

Tyrone beat Dublin, hot favourites, by 12 points, and Kerry by 4 when it could have been 10, Armagh coughed and wheezed past Down, Fermanagh and Cavan. Tyrone played 10 games in 2005, and were the best team in all three matches against Armagh, despite the referee ruining both Ulster Final games in favour of Armagh. Back-door this, back-door that but at the end of the year the champions deserve to be considered champions in my opinion.

How can you talk so much shite about everything? Does it not piss you off even slightly?
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: T Fearon on September 24, 2008, 02:47:18 PM
Fermgael, all the back door games and Tommy Murphy Cup games were included in the Belfast Telegraph competition. I am not whinging or complaining about losing this, just cursing my rotten luck ;D
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: T Fearon on September 24, 2008, 02:49:40 PM
Bensars, Tyrone's defeat of Wexford by 6 points actually earned 10 points for me in the competition and I certainly didn;t opt for Kerry on Sunday out of any dislike for Tyrone, its because I thought the feckers after getting beat in 2003 and 2005 would move heaven and earth to win. ;D
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: FermGael on September 24, 2008, 02:51:25 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 24, 2008, 02:47:18 PM
I am not whinging or complaining about losing this, just cursing my rotten luck ;D

You are some craic all the same. 
If you would have won the thing, despite being a good bit clear up to the last game, you would have been telling us all about the skill invoved.
Funny now your beat, it turns out to be bad luck
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 24, 2008, 02:51:59 PM
This is bottom of the barrel stuff - even from him
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: Guillem2 on September 24, 2008, 04:06:38 PM
http://www.theonion.com/content/news/local_idiot_to_post_comment_on (http://www.theonion.com/content/news/local_idiot_to_post_comment_on)
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: T Fearon on September 24, 2008, 04:10:33 PM
Bullshit. I would give your theory credence Bummer if Tyrone made a final (or even semi final) appearance every year, but they don't. For all Harte's undoubted management skills Tyrone cannot deny their extreme good fortune at crucial times this year, a few examples of which are

Westmeath having two men sent off in 60 in seconds in front of a sparse crowd at Omagh when they could well have dumped Tyrone on their asses in the qualifiers.

Dublin failing to turn up at all in the qtr final

Wexford playing for only one half and missing their best player in the second half in the semis

Kerry taking wrong options which denied them at least two goals last Sunday allied to Tyrone's fluke goal, which would have been cleared by the defender had he not lost his footing.

Sometimes things occur as a result of extreme good fortune rather than any pre set master plan
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 24, 2008, 04:13:23 PM
keep the aul bullshit coming Tony - I (along with many other Tyrone supporters) are loving reading it

Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: stibhan on September 24, 2008, 04:19:15 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 24, 2008, 04:10:33 PM
Bullshit. I would give your theory credence Bummer if Tyrone made a final (or even semi final) appearance every year, but they don't. For all Harte's undoubted management skills Tyrone cannot deny their extreme good fortune at crucial times this year, a few examples of which are

Westmeath having two men sent off in 60 in seconds in front of a sparse crowd at Omagh when they could well have dumped Tyrone on their asses in the qualifiers.

Dublin failing to turn up at all in the qtr final

Wexford playing for only one half and missing their best player in the second half in the semis

Kerry taking wrong options which denied them at least two goals last Sunday allied to Tyrone's fluke goal, which would have been cleared by the defender had he not lost his footing.

Sometimes things occur as a result of extreme good fortune rather than any pre set master plan

How does it feel to have 2 less All-Irelands than Tyrone, sweetheart? Star or no star it must be some hurt til ye.
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: red hander on September 24, 2008, 04:33:31 PM
Quote from: stibhan on September 24, 2008, 04:19:15 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 24, 2008, 04:10:33 PM
Bullshit. I would give your theory credence Bummer if Tyrone made a final (or even semi final) appearance every year, but they don't. For all Harte's undoubted management skills Tyrone cannot deny their extreme good fortune at crucial times this year, a few examples of which are

Westmeath having two men sent off in 60 in seconds in front of a sparse crowd at Omagh when they could well have dumped Tyrone on their asses in the qualifiers.

Dublin failing to turn up at all in the qtr final

Wexford playing for only one half and missing their best player in the second half in the semis

Kerry taking wrong options which denied them at least two goals last Sunday allied to Tyrone's fluke goal, which would have been cleared by the defender had he not lost his footing.

Sometimes things occur as a result of extreme good fortune rather than any pre set master plan

How does it feel to have 2 less All-Irelands than Tyrone, sweetheart? Star or no star it must be some hurt til ye.

Yeah, and how does it feel to have lost an All-Ireland to Tyrone?
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: Billys Boots on September 24, 2008, 05:16:11 PM
Genius Guillem - and very apt here today.  Fair play to The Onion.  ;D
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: EC Unique on September 24, 2008, 05:48:15 PM
This is class. Tony has obviously lost complete control now :D :D  Tyrone were lucky and all back door All Irelands shoud be marked as second rate :D :D   Keep them coming big lad :-*
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: Frank Casey on September 24, 2008, 07:16:41 PM
Fearon I have to say that you're talking balderdash. Maybe we should discount all All Irelands since the qualifiers came in as the added sense of security given to teams by the back door safety net in the provincial championships acts as a beta blocker to the fear of losing in a winner takes all.

I think that leaves the score at Kerry 32, Armagh f**k all.
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: ONeill on September 24, 2008, 07:21:01 PM
I actually agree with Tony. I think those who went through the front door should be asked to play a few more games.
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: Rossfan on September 24, 2008, 10:54:33 PM
I think the 2001 All Ireland should be taken from Galway and given to Ros because of that ************* Prior.
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: imtommygunn on September 24, 2008, 11:04:43 PM
This is a classic thread. Best thing is I think you actually believe the tripe you're coming out with here!

It is funny how you take it so badly when your arch enemies win be it Arsenal, Rangers or Tyrone.
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: Shamrock Shore on September 24, 2008, 11:13:46 PM
Should we also discount the All Irelands prior to, say, 1900 cos they usually were mainly club teams representing counties?

How about the discounting the ones where Kerry had only one game to get to the final?

Hey - lets write off 27 or so of Cavan's Ulster titles cos the other 8 Ulster counties couldn't kick snow off a rope in the early days.

I am sure if some Association Football crowd from Scotland lost a few champion league matches but still won it (even if they weren't yon champions of Scotland at the time) then I am sure you would be * all over the shop!
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: ziggysego on September 24, 2008, 11:23:40 PM
Why do they call it the back door? Most houses I've been to, their back door is usually at the side of the house. Shouldn't it be called the side door?
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: billy the kid on September 25, 2008, 10:30:29 AM
Quote from: Gnevin on September 24, 2008, 12:00:03 PM
I think leaps years should also have a distinction made as the winner that year had an extra day to train . ;)

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

f**king top notch.
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: Gnevin on September 25, 2008, 11:37:41 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on September 24, 2008, 11:23:40 PM
Why do they call it the back door? Most houses I've been to, their back door is usually at the side of the house. Shouldn't it be called the side door?

Fecking Nordies with their back door's on the side  ::)
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: Fear Boirche on September 25, 2008, 01:02:02 PM
So, if Armagh had beaten Tyrone in the 2003 AIF, would you still be advocating this?
Title: Re: Should distinctions be made between real and back door All Irelands?
Post by: downgirl on September 25, 2008, 01:08:51 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on September 24, 2008, 12:00:03 PM
I think leaps years should also have a distinction made as the winner that year had an extra day to train . ;)

Haha love it Gnevin!!