Thought these days were behind us, heard her on Radio Ulster today as she stood by her comments.
Outrage over O'Loan 'slur on Protestants'
Published Date: 15 August 2008
By Stephen Dempster
DAME Nuala O'Loan has sparked outrage by telling a national radio programme that it was her understanding Protestants were brought up to distrust Catholics.
The former Police Ombudsman told a BBC Radio Four programme: "One of the things that surprised me, because I grew up in England, was that people here (Northern
Ireland], Protestants – and I only learned this fairly recently... Protestants would have been taught as children that they could not trust Catholics.
"I found that astonishing but when I explored it with Protestant friends, they all agreed that was the case."
The News Letter was made aware of the remarks by listeners to the Woman's Hour programme who were "deeply offended" at Mrs O'Loan's remarks.
One said: "Most people in the Protestant community would be outraged because this is not the case at all."
Contacted last night, Mrs O'Loan stood by what she had said, but sought to clarify her position – stressing it was what she had been told and that other Protestants had confirmed it.
"I could never understand why it mattered that I was a Catholic Police Ombudsman, it baffled me," she told the News Letter.
"But eventually I was told this was the teaching of some churches to their people and that meant I could understand a lot of what has been said about me."
During a lengthy discussion on the matter, Mrs O'Loan said she was sorry if her radio remark was deemed offensive "but I simply report what was said to me".
"What I said was what I was told and I checked it with other senior people in society and I was told this is true and I said I found it astonishing," she continued.
Asked why she had not clarified or said that "some" Protestants may be brought up to distrust Catholics, Mrs O'Loan reflected that she personally "would not expect all Protestants" were brought up this way and that is why she said she was astonished.
"But I was told by Protestants that they were and I checked it and checked it and checked it," she declared.
When it was put to Mrs O'Loan how her remark would reflect on the Protestant community in the Province, to listeners to the Radio Four programme across the UK and worldwide, she said that she had not had time on the Woman's Hour programme to get into further discussion or add clarification, as the interview was then drawn to its scheduled close.
The ex-Ombudsman's comments follow those of other senior figures in the Catholic community about Protestants in recent years.
In 2005, at a public meeting, Father Alec Reid compared the unionist community to Nazis.
"They (Catholics] were not treated like human beings," he said. "It was like the Nazis' treatment of the Jews."
The same year, Irish President Mary McAleese also compared Protestants to Nazis.
"They (Nazis] gave to their children an irrational hatred of Jews in the same way that people in Northern Ireland transmitted to their children an irrational hatred, for example, of Catholics, in the same way that people give to their children an outrageous and irrational hatred of those who are of different colour and all of those things," she said.
Later Mrs McAleese said she had not meant to single out Protestants.
However, last night, UUP MLA David McNarry said all of these remarks, from within the Catholic community, exposed a nationalist or republican view that Protestants were inherently sectarian and bigoted while Catholics were non-sectarian and egalitarian.
"Nuala O'Loan's remarks are very reminiscent of what Mary McAleese said about people being taught to hate or distrust Catholics and these are broad, sweeping generalisations which are deeply hurtful and offensive to all right-thinking Protestants who will not recognise them to be the case at all," he said.
DUP MLA Mervyn Storey added: "Remarks like this only serve to show why Nuala O'Loan was herself distrusted by the unionist community (as Ombudsman]."
In her conversation with the News Letter last night, Mrs O'Loan concluded: "I think that as a society we need to be able to reflect on all the possible cases of divisiveness."
If, as a result of an open discussion on these issues, it emerged that some churches taught this distrust of Catholics "we need to talk about it and work it out because we all worship the same God"
DAME Nuala O'Loan has sparked outrage by telling a national radio programme that it was her understanding Protestants were brought up to distrust Catholics.
This was the case and vice versa - anybody who says otherwise has not lived in the real world and were obviously shletered away somewhere for a big part of their lives.
Quoteand that other Protestants had confirmed it.
I wasnt aware that these "other protestants" where able to speak for us all. Who the feck are they.
I was never raised to distrust catholics, though I am sure many where and more.
It is the generalisations that annoy me.
Orangeman - many on both sides where, but not all.
Quote from: nifan on August 15, 2008, 12:48:03 PM
Quoteand that other Protestants had confirmed it.
I wasnt aware that these "other protestants" where able to speak for us all. Who the feck are they.
I was never raised to distrust catholics, though I am sure many where and more.
It is the generalisations that annoy me.
Orangeman - many on both sides where, but not all.
Ok - I'll hazard a guess - the vast majority were - I'd say 90% at least on BOTH sides !
Quote from: orangeman on August 15, 2008, 12:55:33 PM
Quote from: nifan on August 15, 2008, 12:48:03 PM
Quoteand that other Protestants had confirmed it.
I wasnt aware that these "other protestants" where able to speak for us all. Who the feck are they.
I was never raised to distrust catholics, though I am sure many where and more.
It is the generalisations that annoy me.
Orangeman - many on both sides where, but not all.
Ok - I'll hazard a guess - the vast majority were - I'd say 90% at least on BOTH sides !
Where do you get this figure from?
Is this solely your perception from people you know?
Is this solely your perception from people you know
Historical analysis ! ;)
I think it depends largely on where you were brought up (including urban vs rural), your social calss and the politics of your parents.
Many were taught to hate Catholics but it does not mean everybody listened.
Offhand,
Free Presbyterians taught their members to hate Catholics.
The Protestant Orange Order taught their members to hate Catholics.
Quote from: Main Street on August 15, 2008, 01:15:01 PM
Many were taught to hate Catholics but it does not mean everybody listened.
Offhand,
Free Presbyterians taught their members to hate Catholics.
The Protestant Orange Order taught their members to hate Catholics.
That accounts for a rather large % of protestants for a start ! ;)
Quote from: Main Street on August 15, 2008, 01:15:01 PM
Many were taught to hate Catholics but it does not mean everybody listened.
Offhand,
Free Presbyterians taught their members to hate Catholics.
The Protestant Orange Order taught their members to hate Catholics.
Id agree with you there - and point out that more where probably taught to distrust, as OLoan said, rather than hate.
However many would not have been taught to hate or even distrust. I think Orangeman is being harsh on all of us to say 90%
Quote from: orangeman on August 15, 2008, 01:27:55 PM
Quote from: Main Street on August 15, 2008, 01:15:01 PM
Many were taught to hate Catholics but it does not mean everybody listened.
Offhand,
Free Presbyterians taught their members to hate Catholics.
The Protestant Orange Order taught their members to hate Catholics.
That accounts for a rather large % of protestants for a start ! ;)
The Free P Church in NI has approx 12,000 members.*
The OO 75,000 has approx members.*
Hardly a majority proportion proportion.
*both stats from a quick google
all 'loans' are in trouble in the 'credit crunch' era !
couldnt resist - sorry.
Have been listening to this all day on the radio, O'Loan's comments have as usual been taken out of context.
She was asked a question by Susan McKay and answered by saying that an acquaintance had told her once that Protestants were brought up to distrust Catholics, this person was an author who was from the Prot. community and had used surveys taken from that community to back their point up.
She then being surprised at this revelation (the women was born and raised in England, so was never subjected to the religious intolerance that passes for "normal society" here) asked many of her Prot. friends and acquaintances of their experiences, and as a whole they concurred with the original persons statement.
Never once did O'Loan say that this was her opinion.
But of course the newsletter carefully edited the start of the quote to leave this important information out.
The outrage today tells me that Protestants are still in denial about Civil Rights.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 15, 2008, 01:45:27 PM
The Free P Church in NI has approx 12,000 members.*
The OO 75,000 has approx members.*
Hardly a majority proportion proportion.
*both stats from a quick google
It is not a question of a hate head count.
The topic is about mistrust.
There are two influential organisations named which preached hate.
In the Free Ps case, their influence stretched way beyond their membership.
Members of the Orange Order ruled Ulster politically.
Heavy influences at the top and the bottom of the social scale.
Quote from: Main Street on August 15, 2008, 02:51:20 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 15, 2008, 01:45:27 PM
The Free P Church in NI has approx 12,000 members.*
The OO 75,000 has approx members.*
Hardly a majority proportion proportion.
*both stats from a quick google
It is not a question of a hate head count.
The topic is about mistrust.
There are two influential organisations named which preached hate.
In the Free Ps case, their influence stretched way beyond their membership.
Members of the Orange Order ruled Ulster politically.
Heavy influences at the top and the bottom of the social scale.
Ok - then 99% !! ;)
My da has said several times to me "You can't trust them you know".
Every time I laugh and he has proceeded to say "I'm being serious".
Always provides me with great amusement.
The fact is some people are taught this, some people arent.
Anyone who thinks that everyone here is indoctrinated, or all of the other side is, is delusional.
The fact is some people are taught this, some people arent.
Anyone who thinks that everyone here is indoctrinated, or all of the other side is, is probably not far off the mark !.
I love Protestants
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on August 15, 2008, 02:28:38 PM
But of course the newsletter carefully edited the start of the quote to leave this important information out.
I wouldn't worry about what the Newsletter publish. More people have peopbably read this thread than read the Newsletter these days.
Quote from: ziggysego on August 15, 2008, 04:50:16 PM
I love Protestants
Hockey players instead of camogie players Ziggy????!!! :-*
Quote from: The Gs Man on August 15, 2008, 08:50:41 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on August 15, 2008, 04:50:16 PM
I love Protestants
Hockey players instead of camogie players Ziggy????!!! :-*
I know a girl from the otherside of the house (so to speak) that plays Hockey, Football, Soccer and Camogie.
going from what iread on this board and the attitude toward all things unionist, Parades, OWC ,the NI soccerteam. the constant rehashing of minor hiistorical incident and the paranoid rading of northen papers looking for Slurs on the nationalist community 80% would seem like a fair figure.