Current top 20:
1 Spain
2 Germany
3 Italy
4 Netherlands
5 Croatia
6 Brazil
7 Argentina
8 Czech Republic
9 Portugal
10 Russia
11 Romania
12 France
13 Turkey
14 England
15 Cameroon
16 Scotland
17 Bulgaria
18 Greece
19 Ghana
20 Israel
http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=807538
http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/ranking/lastranking/gender=m/fullranking.html
Never really trust these rankings. Scotland creeping up on england though!
Also we aren't as good as guinea :o though we could take finland! Score!
Interesting that the "Team which Isn't a Country" ;) is currently in 32nd place, jointly with some Mexicans.
Meanwhile, some other team of "Mexicans" are languishing some 10 places lower... :D
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 06, 2008, 08:17:35 PM
Interesting that the "Team which Isn't a Country" ;) is currently in 32nd place, jointly with some Mexicans.
Meanwhile, some other team of "Mexicans" are languishing some 10 places lower... :D
Come back in a couple of months once Trap gets his hands on the team, who's managing youse again?? Worthington? Whats he won again??
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 06, 2008, 08:17:35 PM
Interesting that the "Team which Isn't a Country" ;) is currently in 32nd place, jointly with some Mexicans.
what happened to Mexico recently?
Quote
Meanwhile, some other team of "Mexicans" are languishing some 10 places lower... :D
complete with Satanic points total.
The thing that strikes me about this set of rankings is that it seems skewed toward European countries who have just played each other in a tournament. After copa america's or cup of nations tournaments the same thing seems to happen
"We're Not Brazil, We're Northern Ireland"
No shit!
How come our draw and win against Serbia and Columbia respectively at the tail end of last season, have not advanced our position?
I know these rankings are meaningless but it is nevertheless a source of great shame, embarrassment and indeed humiliation that the North of Ireland sits ten places ahead of the real Ireland team, when you consider the gulf in size, supporter base, and calibre of player available to both >:(
Quote from: T Fearon on August 07, 2008, 10:25:22 AM
How come our draw and win against Serbia and Columbia respectively at the tail end of last season, have not advanced our position?
Dunno. Unionist Veto? Securocrat Plot? Collusion? No justice for Irishmen in any FIFA court?
Surely this must be a direct and blatant contravention of the Good Friday Agreement?
Perhaps you'd better get Barry McElduff on the case...
Quote from: T Fearon on August 07, 2008, 10:25:22 AM
I know these rankings are meaningless but it is nevertheless a source of great shame, embarrassment and indeed humiliation that the North of Ireland sits ten places ahead of the real Ireland team, when you consider the gulf in size, supporter base, and calibre of player available to both >:(
"Tony Fearon in 'Shame, Embarrassment and Humiliation' Shocker!" - That's surely worth a headline in the Belfast Telegraph. (Btw, did you win a Dictionary in a competition? I never thought you even knew the meaning of such terms... ::))
Quote from: T Fearon on August 07, 2008, 10:25:22 AM
How come our draw and win against Serbia and Columbia respectively at the tail end of last season, have not advanced our position?
I know these rankings are meaningless but it is nevertheless a source of great shame, embarrassment and indeed humiliation that the North of Ireland sits ten places ahead of the real Ireland team, when you consider the gulf in size, supporter base, and calibre of player available to both >:(
Hardlines old boy. :'(
Quote from: T Fearon on August 07, 2008, 10:25:22 AM
How come our draw and win against Serbia and Columbia respectively at the tail end of last season, have not advanced our position?
I know these rankings are meaningless but it is nevertheless a source of great shame, embarrassment and indeed humiliation that the North of Ireland sits ten places ahead of the real Ireland team, when you consider the gulf in size, supporter base, and calibre of player available to both >:(
To survive your humiliation either you just do as the OWC - go into denial
or switch over to the more relevant UEFA rankings where the position of the FAI is slightly higher than the IFA.
http://lucrurineinteresante.blogspot.com/2008/05/euro-2012-qualifying-draw-coefficients.html (http://lucrurineinteresante.blogspot.com/2008/05/euro-2012-qualifying-draw-coefficients.html)
Where Ireland are a few places higher than NI.
These are the seedings that will be used for qual groups both for UEFA and FIFA.
Quote from: Main Street on August 07, 2008, 10:52:54 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on August 07, 2008, 10:25:22 AM
How come our draw and win against Serbia and Columbia respectively at the tail end of last season, have not advanced our position?
I know these rankings are meaningless but it is nevertheless a source of great shame, embarrassment and indeed humiliation that the North of Ireland sits ten places ahead of the real Ireland team, when you consider the gulf in size, supporter base, and calibre of player available to both >:(
To survive your humiliation either you just do as the OWC - go into denial
or switch over to the more relevant UEFA rankings where the position of the FAI is slightly higher than the IFA.
http://lucrurineinteresante.blogspot.com/2008/05/euro-2012-qualifying-draw-coefficients.html (http://lucrurineinteresante.blogspot.com/2008/05/euro-2012-qualifying-draw-coefficients.html)
Where Ireland are a few places higher than NI.
These are the seedings that will be used for qual groups both for UEFA and FIFA.
Just a few places? Not exactly enough to hide Tony's great shame, embarrassment and indeed humiliation I would have thought.
Anyway Tony could do something else that 'the OWC' do. Support the country of his birth.......like he used to, before Big Jack and the plastic paddies came on board.
Quote from: Main Street on August 07, 2008, 10:52:54 AM
To survive your humiliation either you just do as the OWC - go into denial
In FIFA's Rankings, NI are currently 10 places above ROI. No big deal, but no "denial", either.
Quote from: Main Street on August 07, 2008, 10:52:54 AM
or switch over to the more relevant UEFA rankings where the position of the FAI is slightly higher than the IFA.
Slightly higher, but still the same Seeding Group (following NI's recent climb in the rankings and ROI's recent decline). Still, if this continues, it at least means you're not likely to be drawn againsts us, and risk a repeat of the result the last time NI played ROI... ;)
Quote from: Main Street on August 07, 2008, 10:52:54 AM
http://lucrurineinteresante.blogspot.com/2008/05/euro-2012-qualifying-draw-coefficients.html (http://lucrurineinteresante.blogspot.com/2008/05/euro-2012-qualifying-draw-coefficients.html)
Where Ireland are a few places higher than NI.
Three is barely "a few", but if it pleases you to think of it that way, then go ahead!
Quote from: Main Street on August 07, 2008, 10:52:54 AM
These are the seedings that will be used for qual groups both for UEFA and FIFA.
Possibly, but no guarantee - at least for FIFA - since they have amended the critieria at a late stage in the past.
Lads lets be honest about the thing. Both teams are shite!!
The biggest use of these rankings is slagging off whoever is below you.
When we where at 110 my mates all seemed to think they where a lot more relevant than they now do.
Have you boys nothing better to do than try to sicken the hole off each other?! You OWC boys are as bad as Fearon....
Quote from: Arthur_Friend on August 07, 2008, 01:39:20 PM
Have you boys nothing better to do than try to sicken the hole off each other?! You OWC boys are as bad as Fearon....
You can tell you are a newbie
'sickening the hole off each other' as you put it is what this board is all about!!
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 07, 2008, 01:22:19 PM
In FIFA's Rankings, NI are currently 10 places above ROI.
How 10?
Quote from: Niall Quinn on August 07, 2008, 02:03:06 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 07, 2008, 01:22:19 PM
In FIFA's Rankings, NI are currently 10 places above ROI.
How 10?
Er, a spot of double-counting somewhere? We Nordies are famous for it... ;)
I think Rep of Ireland are trying to exactly mimic the points of their Northern bretheren, in the hopes that FIFA will group them as one, a precedent which will reverberate through the wider political spectrum.
Certainly would account for the Republics shocking play of late.
Only 7 nations stand between a FIFA led convergence of Ireland.
NI beat spain, bless the good King Billy, So NI are the best team in the world, Never Never, I heard you cry!
I'm amazed people take these rankings seriously. They dont mean shite.
I've never heard a supporter defending his team from slagging after defeat to a rival saying "yeah well we are still ranked above you".
Face it folks, for all the NI V ROI soccer slaggings on here, one fact is clear.
Both teams are rubbish. If being slightly less rubbish than another team floats your boat then carry on ;)
Quote from: Chrisowc on August 07, 2008, 12:22:40 PM
to hide Tony's great shame, embarrassment and indeed humiliation I would have thought.
Anyway Tony could do something else that 'the OWC' do. Support the country of his birth.......like he used to, before Big Jack and the plastic paddies came on board.
Everybody knows that Norn Iron tried their level best to get almost anybody to play for them, most couldn't be arsed and most of those who did bother to turn up were crap and not used much.
We had a different breed of Gen 2 and 3 Irishmen, answered the call and were committed to the cause. Even an adopted son like
Cascarino is a Paddy for life, still playing under the tri colour for Ireland ;D
(http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/flags/anim/irl.gif)
(http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/pictures/200/Tony%20Cascarino%203799.jpg)
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 07, 2008, 05:23:48 PM
I'm amazed people take these rankings seriously. They dont mean shite.
I dont know if anyone does, apart from winding up those who are easily wound.
Dont matter a shite - qualification for a tournament is the goal for us in our curent state, and thats a big ask. Rankings mean f**k all.
Quote from: Main Street on August 07, 2008, 06:50:29 PM
Quote from: Chrisowc on August 07, 2008, 12:22:40 PM
to hide Tony's great shame, embarrassment and indeed humiliation I would have thought.
Anyway Tony could do something else that 'the OWC' do. Support the country of his birth.......like he used to, before Big Jack and the plastic paddies came on board.
Everybody knows that Norn Iron tried their level best to get almost anybody to play for them, most couldn't be arsed and most of those who did bother to turn up were crap and not used much.
We had a different breed of Gen 2 and 3 Irishmen, answered the call and were committed to the cause. Even an adopted son like
Cascarino is a Paddy for life, still playing under the tri colour for Ireland ;D
(http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/flags/anim/irl.gif)
(http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/pictures/200/Tony%20Cascarino%203799.jpg)
Cascarino's own thoughts on playing for the 26 counties -
Cascarino said in his autobiography: "I didn't qualify for Ireland. I was a fraud. A fake Irishman".
;)
Quote from: Solomon Kane on August 07, 2008, 08:53:40 PM
Cascarino's own thoughts on playing for the 26 counties -
Cascarino said in his autobiography: "I didn't qualify for Ireland. I was a fraud. A fake Irishman".
;)
at least he had the name of the team right :D
;D
Imagine a bright spark from the owc falling for the book selling point.
At least we get entertainment value.
You see Cas is a man of conscience, his dilemma defined just how much it meant to him to have that Irish passport.
If he was as is claimed to be a mercenary then he would not have had any dilemma, just another stroke pulled, another poker bluff.
As it turned out he was perfectly entitled to citizenship and as I said the adopted son of Ireland continues to play proudly under the tricolour.
Quote from: Main Street on August 08, 2008, 03:28:48 AM
;D
Imagine a bright spark from the owc falling for the book selling point.
At least we get entertainment value.
You see Cas is a man of conscience, his dilemma defined just how much it meant to him to have that Irish passport.
If he was as is claimed to be a mercenary then he would not have had any dilemma, just another stroke pulled, another poker bluff.
As it turned out he was perfectly entitled to citizenship and as I said the adopted son of Ireland continues to play proudly under the tricolour.
....and when he had his Talksport 'drive time' slot he talked endlessly about England as 'we'.
Quote from: Chrisowc on August 08, 2008, 04:50:41 AM
....and when he had his Talksport 'drive time' slot he talked endlessly about England as 'we'.
Aye, but so does Terry Wogan during Eurovision and you surely ye wouldn't want to claim him now, would you?! (Not implying that you or other generic OWCers consider themselves English)
But isn't that the classic paradox? He claims to be a fraud, so do you believe him or not?
That fecker alan greene talks about "we" as well.
I met him before the england game at windsor and asked him who he was supporting - he said "straight down the middle".
Quote from: nifan on August 08, 2008, 09:25:14 AM
That fecker alan greene talks about "we" as well.
I met him before the england game at windsor and asked him who he was supporting - he said "straight down the middle".
Hmmm, I'd be more tolerant of Terry than Alan Greene alright. Maybe it's the dry cynicism, or the fact that he keeps that smug fecker Chris Moyles secodn in the ratings!
Quote from: gallsman on August 08, 2008, 08:43:12 AM
Quote from: Chrisowc on August 08, 2008, 04:50:41 AM
....and when he had his Talksport 'drive time' slot he talked endlessly about England as 'we'.
Aye, but so does Terry Wogan during Eurovision and you surely ye wouldn't want to claim him now, would you?! (Not implying that you or other generic OWCers consider themselves English)
Sir Terry Wogan? ;)
Quote from: nifan on August 08, 2008, 09:25:14 AM
That fecker alan greene talks about "we" as well.
I met him before the england game at windsor and asked him who he was supporting - he said "straight down the middle".
Surely as a BBC commentator it is his job to be impartial in such matters ::)
Seriously, England can have him and he hasn't represented Northern Ireland at anything.
BBC never made its other pundits impartial. And giving an impartial view doesnt mean you cant support one of the teams.
Quote from: nifan on August 08, 2008, 10:32:33 AM
BBC never made its other pundits impartial. And giving an impartial view doesnt mean you cant support one of the teams.
It was a joke.
Sorry - i took the rolly eyes in the wrong manner :P
Quote from: Chrisowc on August 08, 2008, 04:50:41 AM
....and when he had his Talksport 'drive time' slot he talked endlessly about England as 'we'.
So you listen to Talkshite ;D
Cas is a dual national.
I would not expect him to wipe out his English identity with the acquisition of Irish Nationality, I doubt that he that insecure.
Same as Ray Houghton, he is a Scot as well as irish. He is equally proud of both.
That's the bit that the sneer tribe in the OWC don't get, the concept of the dual national.
Chris, id give it up - id say there are a few NI internationslas who would refer to "we" about england as well.
Quote from: Main Street on August 08, 2008, 12:05:26 PM
Quote from: Chrisowc on August 08, 2008, 04:50:41 AM
....and when he had his Talksport 'drive time' slot he talked endlessly about England as 'we'.
So you listen to Talkshite ;D
Only to listen to numpties like Cas and Houghton ;)
Quote from: Main Street on August 08, 2008, 12:05:26 PM
Quote from: Chrisowc on August 08, 2008, 04:50:41 AM
....and when he had his Talksport 'drive time' slot he talked endlessly about England as 'we'.
So you listen to Talkshite ;D
Cas is a dual national.
I would not expect him to wipe out his English identity with the acquisition of Irish Nationality, I doubt that he that insecure.
Of course Cascarino can comfortably accommodate more than one Nationality, no-one is objecting to that. It's just that after 88 caps, I'd have thought that
in the context of international football, he'd have reserved his use of "we" for the ROI team, not the England team, whom he has never represented at any level.
Quote from: Main Street on August 08, 2008, 12:05:26 PM
Same as Ray Houghton, he is a Scot as well as irish. He is equally proud of both.
If Houghton has Scottish "nationality" as well as Irish, are you implying that Scotland is a country (nation)?
It doesn't bother me whether you consider it to be so, except that in the Radar McElduff thread you repeatedly asserted that "NI is not a country".
Therefore, please tell me how Scotland (or Wales or England, for that matter) is substantially different from NI in its ability to confer "nationality" on the basis of its status as a country? After all, Scotland and NI are both equally* consituent members of the United Kingdom...
Quote from: Main Street on August 08, 2008, 12:05:26 PM
That's the bit that the sneer tribe in the OWC don't get, the concept of the dual national.
Speaking for myself, I have absolutely no problem with the concept of dual nationality. I presently only have British (UK) Nationality, but I can see where circumstances might cause me to want to assert another Nationality which was open to me. Yep, that's right - even Irish Nationality!
However, i suspect you have difficulty in understanding the concept of a
Union i.e. where someone like me can be Northern Irish by birth and British ("United Kingdomish" if it makes it easier for you) by virtue of NI being part of the Union of GB & NI. However, I am not and never will be Scottish (despite my ancestry), Welsh or (Heaven Forbid) English, even though they can all choose to be British like me.
P.S. As well as being Northern Irish and British, I am also "European", by virtue of the UK being a member of the European Union (Oops! There's that word again). Just as someone can be e.g. Greek and European, French and European or even, ahem, Irish and European...
* - I say "equally", except that the Jocks don't get the same name-recognition in "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" as our wee Country! :D
Quote from: nifan on August 08, 2008, 09:25:14 AM
That fecker alan greene talks about "we" as well.
I met him before the england game at windsor and asked him who he was supporting - he said "straight down the middle".
Id have been more impressed if you had smacked the odious **** in the mouth
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 08, 2008, 01:38:18 PM
Of course Cascarino can comfortably accommodate more than one Nationality, no-one is objecting to that. It's just that after 88 caps, I'd have thought that in the context of international football, he'd have reserved his use of "we" for the ROI team, not the England team, whom he has never represented at any level.
Obviously you have surmised wrong, that even in the context of international football Cas can use the word "we" when referring to England and "we" when referring to Ireland and he can feel comfortable with that.
And he is on record as saying that undoubtedly greatest goal of his career was scored against England at Lansdowne rd.
What matters is that he performs 100% for the country he declared for. Without doubt Cas has done that, in a time other players retire early for club careers Cas continued to soldier on for the Republic carrying his injuries until a ripe old age. Leaving his cosy villa to trapse solo around the world to catch up with the squad and play up front for Ireland. He was dedicated to representation beyond the call of duty for little or no financial reward. We were desperate short up front and Cas didn't hesitate to turn up.
Quote from: An Fear Rua on August 08, 2008, 02:07:46 PM
Quote from: nifan on August 08, 2008, 09:25:14 AM
That fecker alan greene talks about "we" as well.
I met him before the england game at windsor and asked him who he was supporting - he said "straight down the middle".
Id have been more impressed if you had smacked the odious c**t in the mouth
I dont like violence :P and he had terry butcher with him.
We did give him a bit of abuse though.
Graham taylor was there too - and i have to say he was very dead on. He asked how we thought wed do and i said if he was in charge still id be worried, but with sven there we would win.
QuoteWhat matters is that he performs 100% for the country he declared for.
Absolutely.
We have had Dowie the same for ourselves. I dont for one second believe when he was a kid he was running round pretending to score the winning goal for NI, but he came and played for us 100% and now he also calls us we.
Im sure if he was talking about england in games he may say we also. I was of course delighted when we beat England and he wound up the "english" pundit wright.
Quote from: Main Street on August 08, 2008, 02:09:39 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 08, 2008, 01:38:18 PM
Of course Cascarino can comfortably accommodate more than one Nationality, no-one is objecting to that. It's just that after 88 caps, I'd have thought that in the context of international football, he'd have reserved his use of "we" for the ROI team, not the England team, whom he has never represented at any level.
Obviously you have surmised wrong, that even in the context of international football Cas can use the word "we" when referring to England and "we" when referring to Ireland and he can feel comfortable with that.
And he is on record as saying that undoubtedly greatest goal of his career was scored against England at Lansdowne rd.
What matters is that he performs 100% for the country he declared for. Without doubt Cas has done that, in a time other players retire early for club careers Cas continued to soldier on for the Republic carrying his injuries until a ripe old age. Leaving his cosy villa to trapse solo around the world to catch up with the squad and play up front for Ireland. He was dedicated to representation beyond the call of duty for little or no financial reward. We were desperate short up front and Cas didn't hesitate to turn up.
I'm sure Cas doesn't need my "permission" to refer to both ROI and England as "his" team, or "we", nor do I have any difficulty with whatever his choice is. And though I'd be mildly curious in what term he would use for which team were he to be commentating on an England v ROI match ;), frankly, it's hardly terribly important - as you say, it's his commitment when he pulls on the shirt which counts most.
Besides, I am
much more interested in your expanation of the Ray Houghton/Scottish Nationality conundrum, which I posed in the same post and which you somehow omitted to address... ::)
(I'll leave the concept of the Union to another day, if you prefer)
Quote from: nifan on August 08, 2008, 02:14:38 PM
QuoteWhat matters is that he performs 100% for the country he declared for.
Absolutely.
We have had Dowie the same for ourselves. I dont for one second believe when he was a kid he was running round pretending to score the winning goal for NI, but he came and played for us 100% and now he also calls us we.
Im sure if he was talking about england in games he may say we also. I was of course delighted when we beat England and he wound up the "english" pundit wright.
Agree it's the commitment in the shirt which ultimately counts, and Cas and Dowie were both 100% in that respect.
However, Dowie is arguably slightly different in two respects.
First, he is the birth descendant of two parents who are both (afaik) from NI, unlike Cas, who was Irish by virtue of adoption, and then through one Irish parent only.
Second, having seen on TV Dowie's manic reaction after Healy popped in the winner against England, I cannot ever conceive of his referring to England as "we"! ;)
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 08, 2008, 02:32:06 PM
Agree it's the commitment in the shirt which ultimately counts, and Cas and Dowie were both 100% in that respect.
However, Dowie is arguably slightly different in two respects.
First, he is the birth descendant of two parents who are both (afaik) from NI, unlike Cas, who was Irish by virtue of adoption, and then through one Irish parent only.
Second, having seen on TV Dowie's manic reaction after Healy popped in the winner against England, I cannot ever conceive of his referring to England as "we"! ;)
Obviously what is coming through is your subjectivity and how can Cas consider himself Irish because he was only adopted by an irish woman?
Personally I find that to be quite derogativly sick.
On the other hand even if you do judge his Irish links to be tenuos then that would make his rock solid commitment all the more remarkable when other players dripping in green couldn't be arsed.
Cas was legally allowed to play, and his mother - who im sure was as close as any mother - probably gave him more idea about what it is to be as any irish persons biological child would have.
We have had our own children of one irish person, and granchildren as well.
The whole cas thing gets a bit dull - he played for ireland and was allowed to do so.
Dowie is similar to Cas, except Dowie is dedicated to being a part of the game, a very goad coach.
He would do a good job with the NI team
Quote from: Main Street on August 08, 2008, 02:49:03 PM
Dowie is similar to Cas, except Dowie is dedicated to being a part of the game, a very goad coach.
He would do a good job with the NI team
I think he is currently more ambitious for club football to be honest - the premiership is certainly the dream, for any younger coach at least.
I hope that perhaps one day he might want the job.
Quote from: nifan on August 08, 2008, 02:14:38 PM
QuoteWhat matters is that he performs 100% for the country he declared for.
Absolutely.
We have had Dowie the same for ourselves. I dont for one second believe when he was a kid he was running round pretending to score the winning goal for NI, but he came and played for us 100% and now he also calls us we.
Im sure if he was talking about england in games he may say we also. I was of course delighted when we beat England and he wound up the "english" pundit wright.
I heard Dowie on 5 live once stating that the proudest moment in his career was when he became the first Ulsterman to score a goal at Lansdowne Road.
Super Danny Griffin was the last one ;)
Quote from: Main Street on August 08, 2008, 02:42:57 PM
Obviously what is coming through is your subjectivity and how can Cas consider himself Irish because he was only adopted by an irish woman?
Personally I find that to be quite derogativly sick.
I was not questioning Cas's right to consider himself Irish; I had hoped the clue was in comments like
"Of course Cascarino can comfortably accommodate more than one Nationality, no-one is objecting to that" or
"I'm sure Cas doesn't need my "permission" to refer to both ROI and England as "his" team, or "we", nor do I have any difficulty with whatever his choice is".
Rather I was contrasting him with another English-born international, Dowie who, unlike Cas, only ever refers to the NI team as "we", never England (afaik). From there, I speculated that perhaps this is because of their different personal circumstances. That's all, really.
Quote from: Main Street on August 08, 2008, 02:42:57 PM
On the other hand even if you do judge his Irish links to be tenuos then that would make his rock solid commitment all the more remarkable when other players dripping in green couldn't be arsed.
Indeed - a fair point which hadn't really occurred to me.
Now for the third time, any chance of your getting back to the Ray Houghton = Scottish Nationality conundrum which I addressed to you earlier? ::)
Lads, was one of the big reasons that Cascarino's book was a big success was because he revealed in it that he actually wasn't eligible to play for Ireland? Did the FAI not rescind his caps?
thewingedlady - i think he was qualified to play. the "revelation" was incorrect, but may have shifted a few books
A few great books, one of the best sports autoboigraphies i've read, thought it was fantastic.
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 08, 2008, 03:04:46 PM
Now for the third time, any chance of your getting back to the Ray Houghton = Scottish Nationality conundrum which I addressed to you earlier? ::)
???
That equation and conundrum is in your head.
Do you think I have the time to be yapping on any subject of your choosing to suit your agenda ?
The answer is no
Quote from: Main Street on August 08, 2008, 04:11:47 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 08, 2008, 03:04:46 PM
Now for the third time, any chance of your getting back to the Ray Houghton = Scottish Nationality conundrum which I addressed to you earlier? ::)
???
That equation and conundrum is in your head.
Do you think I have the time to be yapping on any subject of your choosing to suit your agenda ?
The answer is no
It is not MY agenda. YOU have made the case that NI is not a country - fair enough. Yet YOU have also asserted that Glasgow-born Ray Houghton has "Scottish Nationality". Does this mean you consider Scotland to be a nation (or country)? If so, how is it different from NI? After all, both are equally, along with Wales and England, constituent parts of the UK.
Oh and don't give me this guff about not having time to reply - with nearly 2,000 posts to date, including 14 today alone, with the first of these being at 03.28 am this morning(!), I'd have thought it's not time you're lacking, just some means - even in a half-assed kind of way - of explaining your inconsistency...
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 08, 2008, 05:27:27 PM
Yet YOU have also asserted that Glasgow-born Ray Houghton has "Scottish Nationality".
I did not
QuoteOh and don't give me this guff about not having time to reply - with nearly 2,000 posts to date, including 14 today alone, with the first of these being at 03.28 am this morning(!), I'd have thought it's not time you're lacking, just some means - even in a half-assed kind of way - of explaining your inconsistency...
Rantings of an ignored OWC stalker.
Quote from: Main Street on August 08, 2008, 05:45:15 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 08, 2008, 05:27:27 PM
Yet YOU have also asserted that Glasgow-born Ray Houghton has "Scottish Nationality".
I did not
Here is what you posted earlier:
"Cas is a dual national... ...Same as Ray Houghton, he is a Scot as well as irish. He is equally proud of both."Explanation?
Quote from: Main Street on August 08, 2008, 05:45:15 PM
QuoteOh and don't give me this guff about not having time to reply - with nearly 2,000 posts to date, including 14 today alone, with the first of these being at 03.28 am this morning(!), I'd have thought it's not time you're lacking, just some means - even in a half-assed kind of way - of explaining your inconsistency...
Rantings of an ignored OWC stalker.
A simple answer to a simple question is all this "stalker" requires, rather than evasiveness, deflection and petty name-calling. That's if you've time... ::)
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 08, 2008, 06:07:29 PM
Here is what you posted earlier:
"Cas is a dual national... ...Same as Ray Houghton, he is a Scot as well as irish. He is equally proud of both."
Explanation?
???
WTF are you on about?
Ray = Scot = born and raised in Scotland, thats how I have heard him describe himself.
I have no reason to doubt it as it is a matter of record.
He is of Irish descent therefore he qualified to be an Irish national
He is proud of both.
I have heard him use the "we" word in reference to Scotland and in reference to Ireland.
Which is the total relevance of what I wrote in relation to the use of the "we" word by dual nationals.
Cas = English, born in England, acquired Irish nationality, uses "we" in reference to England and "we" in reference to Ireland.
Obvious to all, except an obsessive stalker who even needed it spelled out that an Irish parent by adoption is just as ethnically real for a lad as an Irish parent by birth.
its fockin great for ye owc lot, got 4 teams to support and then get in knots over someone saying 'we'. the whole lot of ye would wet yourselves if england won the world cup (i wont even describe what ye'd do if scotland won it ;D) but pretend not to give a shit. sooner or later fifa will cop on and treat ye like every other country and stick ye in one team... ;D ;D
Quote from: magickingdom on August 08, 2008, 09:52:44 PM
its fockin great for ye owc lot, got 4 teams to support and then get in knots over someone saying 'we'. the whole lot of ye would wet yourselves if england won the world cup (i wont even describe what ye'd do if scotland won it ;D) but pretend not to give a shit. sooner or later fifa will cop on and treat ye like every other country and stick ye in one team... and there will be 3 ni international players every century from that day on ;D ;D
:D :D
Quote from: Main Street on August 07, 2008, 06:50:29 PM
Quote from: Chrisowc on August 07, 2008, 12:22:40 PM
to hide Tony's great shame, embarrassment and indeed humiliation I would have thought.
Anyway Tony could do something else that 'the OWC' do. Support the country of his birth.......like he used to, before Big Jack and the plastic paddies came on board.
QuoteEverybody knows that Norn Iron tried their level best to get almost anybody to play for them
, most couldn't be arsed and most of those who did bother to turn up were crap and not used much.
We had a different breed of Gen 2 and 3 Irishmen, answered the call and were committed to the cause. Even an adopted son like
Cascarino is a Paddy for life, still playing under the tri colour for Ireland ;D
(http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/flags/anim/irl.gif)
(http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/pictures/200/Tony%20Cascarino%203799.jpg)
That's a bit of a wierd comment.
Going back to out 1982 team, for example, every player in the squad was born in Northern Ireland except two - Jimmy Nicholl, born in Canada to two Northern Irish parents and brought up in Northern Ireland, and Chris Nicholl, born in England to a Northern Irish father.
Jack Charlton's Republic of Ireland would never have made it to the World Cup if they'd played with a similar proportion of Irish-born players - or even second generation Irishmen.
And the current Northern Ireland squad is vastly Northern Irish-born too: evey member of the starting line-up the night we beat Spain in the last qualifiers was born in NI; in the previous qualifiers, when we beat England, out of the whole squad of 17, only 3 were born outside NI.
Quote from: magickingdom on August 08, 2008, 09:52:44 PM
its fockin great for ye owc lot, got 4 teams to support and then get in knots over someone saying 'we'. the whole lot of ye would wet yourselves if england won the world cup
Ah you really don't get us at all, do you.
Quote from: MW on August 08, 2008, 09:56:31 PM
That's a bit of a wierd comment.
Going back to out 1982 team, for example, every player in the squad was born in Northern Ireland except two - Jimmy Nicholl, born in Canada to two Northern Irish parents and brought up in Northern Ireland, and Chris Nicholl, born in England to a Northern Irish father.
Jack Charlton's Republic of Ireland would never have made it to the World Cup if they'd played with a similar proportion of Irish-born players - or even second generation Irishmen.
And the current Northern Ireland squad is vastly Northern Irish-born too: evey member of the starting line-up the night we beat Spain in the last qualifiers was born in NI; in the previous qualifiers, when we beat England, out of the whole squad of 17, only 3 were born outside NI.
We can't help if our image is sound and players wanted to be with us in the late 1980's and 1990's whereas NI was a black hole and you were way down in rankings gutter with Guam
Image
Republic = jolly craic
NI = grim bástards up North
Do your research onto the time that NI tried out imports who did come in but did not make the grade.
Wood, Sonner, Coote Whitley Sanchez Jenkins all got capped but were useless at that standard
It logically follows that if they did make the grade you would have used them.
But because they were shite you want to climb on top the moral high ground and pontificate about our 2nd and 3rd gen Paddies who were class footballers and dead keen Irish nationals
Dowie, Wilson, Black, Horlock, McCarthy, Nolan, Williams are all English born and represented the North during the period.
plus Norsk Capaldi and Deutche Maik Taylor.
Add to that those who politily refused an invite to join NI.
Quote from: Chrisowc on August 07, 2008, 12:22:40 PM
Anyway Tony could do something else that 'the OWC' do. Support the country of his birth.......like he used to, before Big Jack and the plastic paddies came on board.
It seems my little dig hit a nerve eh Main Street ;)
Your right about one thing though. Any plastics coming on board now are definately coming for the jolly craic. It ain't the football :D
Quote from: Chrisowc on August 09, 2008, 07:38:47 AM
it seems my little dig hit a nerve eh Main Street ;)
Your right about one thing though. Any plastics coming on board now are definately coming for the jolly craic. It ain't the football :D
What are you on about?
you wrote
'Going back to out 1982 team, for example, every player in the squad was born in Northern Ireland except two - Jimmy Nicholl, born in Canada to two Northern Irish parents and brought up in Northern Ireland, and Chris Nicholl, born in England to a Northern Irish father'.
Then you get informed about all your Plastic Willies and Limp Willies and you pretend you were having a dig. ::)
QuoteYour right about one thing though.
I'm accurate about a lot of things.
Quote from: Main Street on August 09, 2008, 11:37:38 AM
Quote from: Chrisowc on August 09, 2008, 07:38:47 AM
it seems my little dig hit a nerve eh Main Street ;)
Your right about one thing though. Any plastics coming on board now are definately coming for the jolly craic. It ain't the football :D
What are you on about?
you wrote
'Going back to out 1982 team, for example, every player in the squad was born in Northern Ireland except two - Jimmy Nicholl, born in Canada to two Northern Irish parents and brought up in Northern Ireland, and Chris Nicholl, born in England to a Northern Irish father'.
Then you get informed about all your Plastic Willies and Limp Willies and you pretend you were having a dig. ::)
QuoteYour right about one thing though.
I'm accurate about a lot of things.
:D :D
The only thing limp in here is you. Numpty!
I didn't write anything of the sort.
Chris,please stop. It rags my shite when people go on about plastics in the ROI team. The rules are there to be used, like we currently do. That we didnt make as full use of them as the ROI at ine stage is neither here nor there, as now we do.
More full us for some of the players we lost because their motehr, rather than father, was from NI.
As it stands we have had enough non NI born over recent years that any insult you dish out is insulting ourselves.
Quote from: Chrisowc on August 10, 2008, 10:01:50 AM
:D :D
The only thing limp in here is you. Numpty!
I didn't write anything of the sort.
Sorry about that quote from another poster that I attributed to you.
Poor mistake.
What is a numpty? a term of abuse?
Quote from: nifan on August 10, 2008, 01:25:47 PM
Chris,please stop. It rags my shite when people go on about plastics in the ROI team. The rules are there to be used, like we currently do. That we didnt make as full use of them as the ROI at ine stage is neither here nor there, as now we do.
More full us for some of the players we lost because their motehr, rather than father, was from NI.
As it stands we have had enough non NI born over recent years that any insult you dish out is insulting ourselves.
I'm not insulting anyone it's called having a bit of craic. Fcuk me this place needs it sometimes. Maybe you don't get my humour but I'm having a laugh.
Especially at Main Street :D
Yes Main Street it's a term of abuse.....just like chump.
No harm intended and nothing sinister behind it.
Quote from: Chrisowc on August 10, 2008, 03:34:02 PM
Quote from: nifan on August 10, 2008, 01:25:47 PM
Chris,please stop. It rags my shite when people go on about plastics in the ROI team. The rules are there to be used, like we currently do. That we didnt make as full use of them as the ROI at ine stage is neither here nor there, as now we do.
More full us for some of the players we lost because their motehr, rather than father, was from NI.
As it stands we have had enough non NI born over recent years that any insult you dish out is insulting ourselves.
Yes Main Street it's a term of abuse.....just like chump.
and its against the rules, Im telling Sir
I thought that too :o
Quote from: Chrisowc on August 10, 2008, 03:34:02 PM
I'm not insulting anyone it's called having a bit of craic. Fcuk me this place needs it sometimes. Maybe you don't get my humour but I'm having a laugh.
Especially at Main Street :D
Yes Main Street it's a term of abuse.....just like chump.
No harm intended and nothing sinister behind it.
It's good to laugh.
I would not have associated abuse with a bit of humour but
I suppose I have to take under consideration that it is a long and hard road to make the total change from the old accepted ways of WP ethnic banter.
I understand.
Quote from: Main Street on August 10, 2008, 05:33:25 PM
Quote from: Chrisowc on August 10, 2008, 03:34:02 PM
I'm not insulting anyone it's called having a bit of craic. Fcuk me this place needs it sometimes. Maybe you don't get my humour but I'm having a laugh.
Especially at Main Street :D
Yes Main Street it's a term of abuse.....just like chump.
No harm intended and nothing sinister behind it.
It's good to laugh.
I would not have associated abuse with a bit of humour but
I suppose I have to take under consideration that it is a long and hard road to make the total change from the old accepted ways of WP ethnic banter.
I understand.
thats the long hard road.........Numpty and Chump in the same thread.
Noted that you think my piss taking of you is racist btw.
Quote from: Chrisowc on August 10, 2008, 03:34:02 PM
I'm not insulting anyone it's called having a bit of craic. Fcuk me this place needs it sometimes. Maybe you don't get my humour but I'm having a laugh.
Especially at Main Street :D
Yes Main Street it's a term of abuse.....just like chump.
No harm intended and nothing sinister behind it.
I know its humour chris, but sometime I think we go on about it a bit much and it annoys me. Its not you but a general overdoing of it.
Itd be funnier if we didnt do exactly the same thing.
Quote from: Main Street on August 08, 2008, 11:50:36 PM
Quote from: MW on August 08, 2008, 09:56:31 PM
That's a bit of a wierd comment.
Going back to out 1982 team, for example, every player in the squad was born in Northern Ireland except two - Jimmy Nicholl, born in Canada to two Northern Irish parents and brought up in Northern Ireland, and Chris Nicholl, born in England to a Northern Irish father.
Jack Charlton's Republic of Ireland would never have made it to the World Cup if they'd played with a similar proportion of Irish-born players - or even second generation Irishmen.
And the current Northern Ireland squad is vastly Northern Irish-born too: evey member of the starting line-up the night we beat Spain in the last qualifiers was born in NI; in the previous qualifiers, when we beat England, out of the whole squad of 17, only 3 were born outside NI.
We can't help if our image is sound and players wanted to be with us in the late 1980's and 1990's whereas NI was a black hole and you were way down in rankings gutter with Guam
Image
Republic = jolly craic
NI = grim bástards up North
Do your research onto the time that NI tried out imports who did come in but did not make the grade.
Wood, Sonner, Coote Whitley Sanchez Jenkins all got capped but were useless at that standard
It logically follows that if they did make the grade you would have used them.
But because they were shite you want to climb on top the moral high ground and pontificate about our 2nd and 3rd gen Paddies who were class footballers and dead keen Irish nationals
Dowie, Wilson, Black, Horlock, McCarthy, Nolan, Williams are all English born and represented the North during the period.
plus Norsk Capaldi and Deutche Maik Taylor.
Add to that those who politily refused an invite to join NI.
Actually, we only adopted the grandparent rule in 1993 so your claim that players didn't want to play for us is simply a steaming pile of garbage.
The IFA didn't even allow the mother's birthplace to count for eligibility until the mid 1980s.
So, basically you're talking about a few years after the mid-1990s. And you're not even doing that terribly well.
Quote from: MW on August 10, 2008, 11:13:15 PM
Actually, we only adopted the grandparent rule in 1993 so your claim that players didn't want to play for us is simply a steaming pile of garbage.
The IFA didn't even allow the mother's birthplace to count for eligibility until the mid 1980s.
So, basically you're talking about a few years after the mid-1990s. And you're not even doing that terribly well.
MW
Do you dispute one of the names of the Plastic Willies that I gave?
or one of the names of the limp Willies that I gave you who weren't good enough?
Or that the IFA did not ask around for other players?
Or that players refused the invitation to become Plastic Willies?
Would you ever cop on with your ethnic born on the soil superiority hypocrecy - 'we had less plastics than you' - playground nonsense.
Or the sanctity of that you only considered to recruit Plastic Willies en masse - after 1993 UK Association Agreement.
Quote from: Main Street on August 08, 2008, 07:08:01 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 08, 2008, 06:07:29 PM
Here is what you posted earlier:
"Cas is a dual national... ...Same as Ray Houghton, he is a Scot as well as irish. He is equally proud of both."
Explanation?
???
WTF are you on about?Ray = Scot = born and raised in Scotland, thats how I have heard him describe himself.
I have no reason to doubt it as it is a matter of record.
He is of Irish descent therefore he qualified to be an Irish national
He is proud of both.
I have heard him use the "we" word in reference to Scotland and in reference to Ireland.
Which is the total relevance of what I wrote in relation to the use of the "we" word by dual nationals.
Cas = English, born in England, acquired Irish nationality, uses "we" in reference to England and "we" in reference to Ireland.
Obvious to all, except an obsessive stalker who even needed it spelled out that an Irish parent by adoption is just as ethnically real for a lad as an Irish parent by birth.
Just in case you are being obtuse, rather than deliberately evasive, I shall spell out exactly what I am "on about".
Following your clear disparagement elsewhere of the status of NI as a "country", "nationality" etc - fair enough, your interpretation, your opinion - I was struck by something you posted on this thread, which would appear to contradict your ealier proposition.
Namely, you state both Cascarino and Houghton are "Dual Nationals", with which I agree entirely. One of those Nationalities is obviously Irish, which I freely accept is not diminished in any way by virtue of their not having been born in ireland, and/or to two Irish parents etc.
But what I can't get you to spell out is their
other Nationality.
Is TC "Irish and British" or "Irish and English"? And is RH "Irish and British" or "Irish and Scottish"?This is important, since if by your reckoning, "Englishness" and "Scottishness" are both bona fide Nationalities, then why isn't "Northern Irishness"? After all, they each (along with "Welshness") have the same constitutional status within the UK... ::)
Quote from: Main Street on August 11, 2008, 01:12:05 AM
Quote from: MW on August 10, 2008, 11:13:15 PM
Actually, we only adopted the grandparent rule in 1993 so your claim that players didn't want to play for us is simply a steaming pile of garbage.
The IFA didn't even allow the mother's birthplace to count for eligibility until the mid 1980s.
So, basically you're talking about a few years after the mid-1990s. And you're not even doing that terribly well.
MW
Do you dispute one of the names of the Plastic Willies that I gave?
or one of the names of the limp Willies that I gave you who weren't good enough?
Or that the IFA did not ask around for other players?
Or that players refused the invitation to become Plastic Willies?
Would you ever cop on with your ethnic born on the soil superiority hypocrecy - 'we had less plastics than you' - playground nonsense.
Or the sanctity of that you only considered to recruit Plastic Willies en masse - after 1993 UK Association Agreement.
My point is, Northern Ireland's selection of a large proportion of non-NI-born players only took place in the mid to late 1990s, then tailed off. Not exactly comparable to the RoI's decades long packing of its squad with non-RoI-born players.
Northern Ireland made it to three World Cups without even allowing players whose mother was from NI to play for them, even mind grandparents. The 1958 squad was I think totally NI-born; the 1982 squad, all but two, and one of those was brought up in NI to two NI parents; the 1986 squad also had only 2 I think born outside NI.
Whereas the Republic is unlikely to have ever made the World Cup with a similarly composed squad.
I don't care what "ethnicity" a player is, so I don't know why you mention it.
I just think it's a greater achievement for Northern Ireland to attain success, such as playing in the World Cup, with Northern Irish players, or the Republic of Ireland to do likewise with Irish players.
Didnt norn iron try and get dele adebola play for them back in the 90s? ;D
Quote from: fred the red on August 13, 2008, 10:38:34 PM
Didnt norn iron try and get dele adebola play for them back in the 90s? ;D
Aye, embarrassingly. In the mid-late 1990s we tried to take advantage of the then rules that any British citizen born outside the UK could play for any of the UK teams (naturalised citzens or those from the Channel Islands and Isle of Man).
To be fair, that did yield Maik Taylor, who we would have been worse off without.
The only other player it produced for NI was another goalkeeper, Channel Islander Trevor Wood, whose international career consisted of about half an hour as a sub, away to Liectenstein.
Quote from: MW on August 13, 2008, 10:34:37 PM
My point is, Northern Ireland's selection of a large proportion of non-NI-born players only took place in the mid to late 1990s, then tailed off. Not exactly comparable to the RoI's decades long packing of its squad with non-RoI-born players.
Northern Ireland made it to three World Cups without even allowing players whose mother was from NI to play for them, even mind grandparents. The 1958 squad was I think totally NI-born; the 1982 squad, all but two, and one of those was brought up in NI to two NI parents; the 1986 squad also had only 2 I think born outside NI.
Whereas the Republic is unlikely to have ever made the World Cup with a similarly composed squad.
I don't care what "ethnicity" a player is, so I don't know why you mention it.
I just think it's a greater achievement for Northern Ireland to attain success, such as playing in the World Cup, with Northern Irish players, or the Republic of Ireland to do likewise with Irish players.
Apparantly you do make a distinction between a dual national and a mono national. And rate one superior to the other.
There is a denigration of their dual nationality as being somehow inferior to a born on the soil national.
I always rated NI for qualifying for the WC finals.
The Republic had some superb players 1982 and 1986 and failed to qualify when NI had less to choose from and achieved much more.
(It cant have been that much of a deal, for NI fans, were there more than 50 NI fans in Spain?
Maybe 20 in Mexico?)
Dual nationals, mono nationals, never made a difference to me. As long as I can remember we have had a team composed of English based players, Kids who left Ireland when they 15 or 16. My own family are spread far and wide around the world, my own children are dual nationals, I understand Dual Nationality and how much it means (regardless of the age of awareness) and I understand and accept the criteria for national team selection in soccer. As long as I can remember I have always had a confidence about my Irishness and an acquired knowledge of the sensibility of our constitution on the issue of nationality eligibility.
I would have thought that the "moral backbone" of the Charlton era was evident when they came away with Qualification in that cesspit of hatred, Windsor Park 1991. Once a team displays that solidarity and belief in those circumstances of extreme adversity then they have nothing to prove about the quality of their nationality or questions of pride in that nationality.
Quote from: Main Street on August 14, 2008, 10:56:23 AM
I understand Dual Nationality
Go on, then:
Is Tony Cascarino "Irish and British" or "Irish and English"?
And is Ray Houghton "Irish and British" or "Irish and Scottish"?
The North of Ireland only qualified for the World Cup Finals of 1982 due to the fact that they were in a shit group with the worst Portuguese and Swedish teams of all time, whereas as the real Ireland team had to deal with the likes of France,Holand etc and were victim to some appalling refereeing decisions, and in 1986 due to England shamefully contriving to draw 0-0 with them in the Wembley fixture, a result which suited both teams. :(
Quote from: T Fearon on August 14, 2008, 12:04:31 PM
The North of Ireland only qualified for the World Cup Finals of 1982 due to the fact that they were in a shit group with the worst Portuguese and Swedish teams of all time, whereas as the real Ireland team had to deal with the likes of France,Holand etc and were victim to some appalling refereeing decisions, and in 1986 due to England shamefully contriving to draw 0-0 with them in the Wembley fixture, a result which suited both teams. :(
You forgot to mention monoculturalism, exclusion of Catholics, collusion, Neil Lennon, the naming of Windsor Park after the English Royal family, the Sunday football ban, Neil Lennon, the Orange Order, Neil Lennon, Drumcree, the English National Anthem blah, blah, blah, blah.... Oh, and Pat Jennings shamefully colluding with Glenn Hoddle to fix the 35 yard "Hoddle Special" which the Newry turncoat appeared to stretch full length to save at Wembley in 1985. Spurs bastards... Oh, and Gerry Armstrong. Wasn't he another one? Oh well, he'll surely get what's coming to him, won't he? :o
P.S. Did I mention Neil Lennon?
Glad to see you didn't dispute (therefore you tacitly acknowledge) that the 0-0 draw at Wembley in 1985 was contrived. Sure Jennings and Hoddle would have ran through that free kick scenario millions of times in training.
Jesus I wish I hadn't started this thread! Was only pointing out Spain reaching number one!!
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 14, 2008, 11:09:45 AM
Quote from: Main Street on August 14, 2008, 10:56:23 AM
I understand Dual Nationality
Go on, then:
Is Tony Cascarino "Irish and British" or "Irish and English"?
And is Ray Houghton "Irish and British" or "Irish and Scottish"?
You did miss the lesson on dual nationality here in the eligibility debate.
FCK me you guys really do not know your stuff, in that you get so easily fooled by the IFA ;D
For the intellectually slow/impaired, I will spell it out again.
Obviously Tony and Cas are British nationals as they are that by birth.
They have British and Irish nationality
Cas used "we" when he talks about England, I presume he sees himself as English.
I have never heard him call himself British maybe he has maybe he hasn't.
Houghton uses we in reference to Scotland, I know he regards himself as Scottish and Irish
Is that an earth shattering revelation?
John Hartson is called a Welshman, Ryan Giggs is called a Welshman,
Do I need to go on?
If anybody wants to be called Northern Irish, that is their privilege.
BTW, have you removed this scurrilous accusation against GAA members from the OWC board that you wrote with your poison pen?
"Consequently whilst
there are no doubt many GAA heads in places like Pomeroy who happily endorse ruthless would-be murderers, equally there will be many more elsewhere who are appalled by such events."
Quote from: T Fearon on August 14, 2008, 02:36:57 PM
Glad to see you didn't dispute (therefore you tacitly acknowledge) that the 0-0 draw at Wembley in 1985 was contrived. Sure Jennings and Hoddle would have ran through that free kick scenario millions of times in training.
Quite right. In fact, it was
all fixed:
Finland 1 v 0 NI (bloody incorruptible Finnish bastards)
NI 3 v 1 Romania (Georgie Hagi? Who?)
NI 2 v 1 Finland (had to bribe the referee, instead)
NI 0 v 1 England (particularly cunning fix, obviously to allay later suspicions)
NI 2 v 0 Turkey (Christmas came early for the Turkey players)
Turkey 0 v 0 NI (what happened there?)
Romania 0 v 1 NI (2 pairs of Levis for each Romanian player, plus some Western Porn for the Manager)
England 0 v 0 NI (FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIX!)
Anmd what's more, it's all on tape!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgstBU1GV8w&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG97E9gJ5LM&feature=related
The last one is a particular giveaway, especially the bit from 8 minutes in...
But sure it's no wonder it was fixed, when you're dealing with the likes of Jennings, O'Neill, Armstrong, Donaghy and all those other Fenians... :o
There is no getting away from the simple fact that the 0-0 draw at Wembley in 1985 which qualified the North of Ireland for the 1986 World Cup Finals was a contrived result. This is a widely accepted and acknowledged fact, has England required to win they would have done.
The beauty of it was that without it, we wouldn't have had the pleasure of Butregano, Josimar etc whipping their asses in Mexico the following summer ;D
PS It would be constructive if yyou refrained from using sectarian phrases in your post
Quote from: Main Street on August 14, 2008, 03:28:15 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 14, 2008, 11:09:45 AM
Quote from: Main Street on August 14, 2008, 10:56:23 AM
I understand Dual Nationality
Go on, then:
Is Tony Cascarino "Irish and British" or "Irish and English"?
And is Ray Houghton "Irish and British" or "Irish and Scottish"?
For the intellectually slow/impaired, I will spell it out again.
Obviously Tony and Cas are British nationals as they are that by birth.
They have British and Irish nationality
Cas used "we" when he talks about England, I presume he sees himself as English.
I have never heard him call himself British maybe he has maybe he hasn't.
Houghton uses we in reference to Scotland, I know he regards himself as Scottish and Irish
Is that an earth shattering revelation?
John Hartson is called a Welshman, Ryan Giggs is called a Welshman,
Do I need to go on?
If anybody wants to be called Northern Irish, that is their privilege.
Right, so Houghton is "Scottish" and Hartson is "Welsh", but Cascarino is "British", not "English".
Hmmm, so from these three constituent parts of the UK, Scotland is a Nation, Wales is a Nation but England isn't. Fine, I'm not sure how that works, but no matter, since I am neither English, Scottish or Weslh
Problem is, I'm from Northern Ireland. Is Northern Irishness a Nationality, like that of our Celtic cousins, or is it not, like the Englishness of our Bastard Saxon Oppressors?
I need your help, Main Street, for as you say, you understand Nationality...
Quote from: Main Street on August 14, 2008, 03:28:15 PM
BTW, have you removed this scurrilous accusation against GAA members from the OWC board that you wrote with your poison pen?
"Consequently whilst there are no doubt many GAA heads in places like Pomeroy who happily endorse ruthless would-be murderers, equally there will be many more elsewhere who are appalled by such events."
So which part of the above post - even taken out of context - should I remove?
That there are people in Pomeroy who were happy to endorse Seamus Woods? After all, they were holding a commemoration for him in, ahem, Pomeroy.
Or that none of those taking part were GAA fans? Strange, but the Parade ("with childrens' activities and an entertainment slide show") started off from Pomeroy Plunkets GAA Club.
Or that Woods wasn't "ruthless"? I'd say firing off Mortars in a small town was a pretty unambiguous way of making your point. After all, innocent people could get killed. Such as the guy operating it.
No? Not those?
Oh, I get it, it must be the definition of "murder" I used which was wrong. I mean to say, it was only RUC men the IRA were trying to kill. It's not as if they were good old community Bobbys, like those nice young chaps in the PSNI, who seem to spend half their time playing Gaelic Games with their new best chums in Sinn Fein...
Anyhow, as I said elsewhere, when I requoted my entire post in context for all to see (not just heavily edited extracts, carefully selected to give a misleading impression), I stand by every word of what I wrote.
If you don't like it, then fine. If you want to discuss it further, that's equally fine. But may I suggest you open up a separate thread for it, since this one is dealing with soccer. You know, the other football game, with FIFA Rankings etc, as played by the likes of "Wee Jock" Houghton, "Dai the Pie" Hartson and Tony "Da Brit" Cascarino... ::)
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 14, 2008, 04:05:47 PM
I need your help.
You need help all right.
You write some twisted and perverted posts.
Quote from: T Fearon on August 14, 2008, 03:51:56 PM
There is no getting away from the simple fact that the 0-0 draw at Wembley in 1985 which qualified the North of Ireland for the 1986 World Cup Finals was a contrived result. This is a widely accepted and acknowledged fact, has England required to win they would have done.
The beauty of it was that without it, we wouldn't have had the pleasure of Butregano, Josimar etc whipping their asses in Mexico the following summer ;D
"A widely accepted and acknowledged fact" - the length and breadth of Poyntzpass...
"Had England required to win they would have done". Of course. They didn't need a win, because they'd already got three points in Belfast...
"The beauty of it was", Romania getting cuffed home and away by Northern Ireland, which would almost make you think it wasn't fixed...
Anyhow, how was your summer in 1986? Spend it with your fellow ROI fans in Bundoran did you? Or Donegal? Kerry maybe? Ah well, whichever it was, I'm sure it was a lot more fun than slumming it in Mexico, alongside all those fit young Brazilian girls, as they tanned themselves each day on the beaches of Cancun and Playa Del Carmen, before going to a match in the evening...
Quote from: T Fearon on August 14, 2008, 03:51:56 PM
PS It would be constructive if yyou refrained from using sectarian phrases in your post
Can't help it. Sure amn't I only a Hun? :o
Theres me saying people shouldnt put any pass of the fifa rankings as they arent important. Next time I peep in its up to seven pages and going strong :o
QuoteThis is a widely accepted and acknowledged fact, has England required to win they would have done.
Its not. Its widely spread by eejits like you. That doesnt make it a fact.
Ooops there Nifan that's a very aggressive manner of speech there.
That's personal abuse.
Quote from: T Fearon on August 14, 2008, 03:51:56 PM
There is no getting away from the simple fact that the 0-0 draw at Wembley in 1985 which qualified the North of Ireland for the 1986 World Cup Finals was a contrived result. This is a widely accepted and acknowledged fact, has England required to win they would have done.
The beauty of it was that without it, we wouldn't have had the pleasure of Butregano, Josimar etc whipping their asses in Mexico the following summer ;D
PS It would be constructive if yyou refrained from using sectarian phrases in your post
Any proof (as opposed to opinions) then?
It isnt aggressive. I did call him an eejit, for which ill take a warning if deemed necessary.
Ive been called worse than an eejit here lately without a word.
Quote from: Solomon Kane on August 14, 2008, 05:18:08 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on August 14, 2008, 03:51:56 PM
There is no getting away from the simple fact that the 0-0 draw at Wembley in 1985 which qualified the North of Ireland for the 1986 World Cup Finals was a contrived result. This is a widely accepted and acknowledged fact, has England required to win they would have done.
The beauty of it was that without it, we wouldn't have had the pleasure of Butregano, Josimar etc whipping their asses in Mexico the following summer ;D
PS It would be constructive if yyou refrained from using sectarian phrases in your post
Any proof (as opposed to opinions) then?
If proof did exist, do you think they'd replay the Tournament? I'd like to see Mexico 86 22 years on.
Maradona might have lost some of his mobility, so I'm not sure Argentina would be the threat they were. My money would be on France. Peter Shilton would be some age at this stage.
I could well believe that Hoddle practiced the routine with Jennings ;D
Nobody actually cares about that but I see that it is always good for a wind up
Already 3 OWCers demanding a reply from Tony.
What 3 are demanding a reply?
Quote from: nifan on August 14, 2008, 05:34:55 PM
What 3 are demanding a reply?
Sorry Nifan
to pedantically spell out the full and proper meaning of my message to those posters who may have been grossly misrepresented
One OWC took the time to reply but did not ask a serious question
One OWC asked for a reply
One OWC got so upset that he just blurted out something
Thank you
I still dont understand why replying to a post of fearons is newsworthy
Quote from: Main Street on August 14, 2008, 05:40:05 PM
Quote from: nifan on August 14, 2008, 05:34:55 PM
What 3 are demanding a reply?
Sorry Nifan
to pedantically spell out the full and proper meaning of my message to those posters who may have been grossly misrepresented
One OWC took the time to reply but did not ask a serious question
One OWC asked for a reply
One OWC got so upset that he just blurted out something
Am I one of "The OWC Three"? Maybe the one who sought a reply? If so, here's my query again, since you somehow seem to have overlooked it. Again. For the umpteenth time.
Right, so Houghton is "Scottish" and Hartson is "Welsh", but Cascarino is "British", not "English".
Hmmm, so from these three constituent parts of the UK, Scotland is a Nation, Wales is a Nation but England isn't. Fine, I'm not sure how that works, but no matter, since I am neither English, Scottish or Weslh
Problem is, I'm from Northern Ireland. Is Northern Irishness a Nationality, like that of our Celtic cousins, or is it not, like the Englishness of our b**tard Saxon Oppressors? (To make it easier, I've highlighted the relevant bit in
bold)
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 14, 2008, 05:54:15 PM
Right, so Houghton is "Scottish" but Cascarino is "British", not "English".
I wrote
"Obviously Tony and Cas are British nationals as they are that by birth.
They have British and Irish nationality"
I meant to write Houghton and Cas, not Tony and Cas who are the same person.
So you can stop masturbating that one now.
Tony and Cas ;D wtf
'
Quoteand Hartson is "Welsh"
I wrote
"John Hartson is called a Welshman"
Hartson is a British national.
QuoteProblem is, I'm from Northern Ireland.
True enough.
QuoteIs Northern Irishness a Nationality, like that of our Celtic cousins, or is it not, like the Englishness
What a stupid line.
Do you know anything about your nationality status?
Northern Ireland is not a nationality.
Which Celtic cousins of NI are Nationalities? I do not know of any.
Not Scotland or Wales for sure.
Quote from: Main Street on August 14, 2008, 10:56:23 AM
Apparantly you do make a distinction between a dual national and a mono national. And rate one superior to the other.
There is a denigration of their dual nationality as being somehow inferior to a born on the soil national.
There's a vast difference between someone holding dual nationality and someone thinking "oh, I remember my ma saying her ma was from Ireland, maybe I could play international football after all" and
then getting an Irish passport
Quote
I always rated NI for qualifying for the WC finals.
The Republic had some superb players 1982 and 1986 and failed to qualify when NI had less to choose from and achieved much more.
(It cant have been that much of a deal, for NI fans, were there more than 50 NI fans in Spain?
Maybe 20 in Mexico?)
There were hundreds of Northern Ireland fans in Spain.
If you can't tell the difference between the present day and the early 1980s when travel was more difficult and expensive and there wasn't so much of a tradition of international fans travelling, then you're an idiot.
And if you think the 1982 or 1986 World Cups weren't "that much of a deal for NI fans" then you're an idiot twice over.
Looks like you've been stung at what I said, so mcuh so that you feel the need to have silly digs about NI's World Cup appearances.
Quote
Dual nationals, mono nationals, never made a difference to me. As long as I can remember we have had a team composed of English based players, Kids who left Ireland when they 15 or 16. My own family are spread far and wide around the world, my own children are dual nationals, I understand Dual Nationality and how much it means (regardless of the age of awareness) and I understand and accept the criteria for national team selection in soccer. As long as I can remember I have always had a confidence about my Irishness and an acquired knowledge of the sensibility of our constitution on the issue of nationality eligibility.
I would have thought that the "moral backbone" of the Charlton era was evident when they came away with Qualification in that cesspit of hatred, Windsor Park 1991. Once a team displays that solidarity and belief in those circumstances of extreme adversity then they have nothing to prove about the quality of their nationality or questions of pride in that nationality.
Aye, a 1-1 draw against a crap Northern Ireland team really proves "the quality of their nationality", right enough :D
Quote from: MW on August 15, 2008, 09:39:49 PM
There's a vast difference between someone holding dual nationality and someone thinking "oh, I remember my ma saying her ma was from Ireland, maybe I could play international football after all" and then getting an Irish passport
Back again to some ignorant justification for maintining prejudiced views on supposed levels of nationality superiority, the more ethnically pure national.
After taking up the citizenship, a dual national is equal in the eyes of the constitution.
There is no room for subjective prejudiced appraisal of that citizenship in the law.
It has already been established and accepted in this thread what matters in a football sense after a player becomes eligible to play.
On the football field, playing for ones country is another matter and real fans can appreciate the effort and appraise the sincerity of a footballer over the years to his country.
Football fans demand standards.
I have already dealt with the ignorance to Cascarino's adoption.
QuoteThere were hundreds of Northern Ireland fans in Spain.
If you can't tell the difference between the present day and the early 1980s when travel was more difficult and expensive and there wasn't so much of a tradition of international fans travelling, then you're an idiot.
And if you think the 1982 or 1986 World Cups weren't "that much of a deal for NI fans" then you're an idiot twice over.
Looks like you've been stung at what I said, so mcuh so that you feel the need to have silly digs about NI's World Cup appearances.
No my dear, juvenile rivalry and schoolyard abuse does not sting.
Maybe travelling to away games was not a culture for NI fans then.
It was not that difficult for the "impovershed" Republic fans.
Qualifying games in Holland, Belgium and France were attended by thousands from 1979 to 1983.
QuoteAye, a 1-1 draw against a crap Northern Ireland team really proves "the quality of their nationality", right enough :D
I referred to the victory over the adversity in the cesspit of hatred that was Windsor Park then.
We know the NI team was at it's 'natural level'.
I have to side with Main Street on this one MW.
Can we honestly look back at NI at the time and say well at least his father was from NI, if it was his mother he wouldnt know anything about the place.
Our recent attempt to get some naturalised british players with completely zero connection with the place has removed any moral high ground we may have believed we had.
Quote from: nifan on August 16, 2008, 11:12:01 AM
I have to side with Main Street on this one MW.
Now steady on, nifan. Aren't we "OWC Crowd" all meant to be singing from the same (Protestant) Hymn Sheet all the time? ;)
Just remember what we do to "Lundys"!
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 16, 2008, 11:24:14 PM
Quote from: nifan on August 16, 2008, 11:12:01 AM
I have to side with Main Street on this one MW.
Now steady on, nifan. Aren't we "OWC Crowd" all meant to be singing from the same (Protestant) Hymn Sheet all the time? ;)
Just remember what we do to "Lundys"!
EG why do you always feel the need to bring religion/politics into every topic you post on here? Saxon/Protestant/Taig it gets tiresome.
Nifan you at least have an open view on most things, pitty you support the wee six, go on transfer (you haven't played a competive full international yet) we'd love to have you. ;) ;D
Quote from: nifan on August 16, 2008, 11:58:54 PM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on August 16, 2008, 11:57:20 PM
pretty you
now steady on GDA, lets keep this platonic ;)
Ah crap, the drink is starting to control the fingers on the keyboard! ;D
Keep your distance Nifan ;D
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on August 16, 2008, 11:57:20 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 16, 2008, 11:24:14 PM
Quote from: nifan on August 16, 2008, 11:12:01 AM
I have to side with Main Street on this one MW.
Now steady on, nifan. Aren't we "OWC Crowd" all meant to be singing from the same (Protestant) Hymn Sheet all the time? ;)
EG why do you always feel the need to bring religion/politics into every topic you post on here? Saxon/Protestant/Taig it gets tiresome.
Don't you know that Prods and Taigs sing different hymns? Anyhow, it must be because I'm an Atheist (thank God), who has the same lowly opinion of just about all forms of organised religion...
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 17, 2008, 12:28:58 AM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on August 16, 2008, 11:57:20 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 16, 2008, 11:24:14 PM
Quote from: nifan on August 16, 2008, 11:12:01 AM
I have to side with Main Street on this one MW.
Now steady on, nifan. Aren't we "OWC Crowd" all meant to be singing from the same (Protestant) Hymn Sheet all the time? ;)
EG why do you always feel the need to bring religion/politics into every topic you post on here? Saxon/Protestant/Taig it gets tiresome.
Don't you know that Prods and Taigs sing different hymns? Anyhow, it must be because I'm an Atheist (thank God), who has the same lowly opinion of just about all forms of organised religion...
So if your Godless, why keep bring religion into your posts?
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on August 17, 2008, 12:41:29 AM
So if your Godless, why keep bring religion into your posts?
The same reason as (the Godless) Dave Allen or Dermot Morgan always did? A bit of a laugh, perhaps?
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on August 17, 2008, 12:41:29 AM
So if your Godless, why keep bring religion into your posts?
It's not the religion.
That's just his way, typecasting GAA members, that we think like that.
A byproduct of that is that he can dig into the recesses of his typecasting to justify his perverse comments on GAA members.
Quote from: Main Street on August 16, 2008, 12:00:43 AM
Back again to some ignorant justification for maintining prejudiced views on supposed levels of nationality superiority, the more ethnically pure national.
Please stop talking bulls**t about my posts. I have no interest in what ethnicity any footballer is.
Quote
After taking up the citizenship, a dual national is equal in the eyes of the constitution.
There is no room for subjective prejudiced appraisal of that citizenship in the law.
That doesn't actually prevent me from having an opinion on nationality and allegiance, now does it?
The Irish constitution is actually very confused on this issue. The Irish state is pretty liberal on allowing dual nationality, yet its constitution demands the primary allegiance of all citizens to the State.
And consider the case of a mate of mine, former serviceman who got an Irish passport purely for the sake of convenience as his British one has military stamps on it that wouldn't be too popular in some parts of the world. Doesn't even consider himself Irish, never mind have any sort of allegiance to or affinity with the Republic of Ireland.
Hmm, did someone say "Alan Kernaghan"?
Anyhoo, I don't actually care what national label(s) someone wants to attach to themselves. My point was simply that you were misrepresenting NI's footballing history. And as a secondary point, that I think that it's a greater achievement for, say, Latvia, to make a major finals with a substantially Latvian-born (or indeed Latvian-raised) team than one packed with people who have adopted Latvian identity through ancestry rules. If you want to argue with that point, feel free.
Quote
It has already been established and accepted in this thread what matters in a football sense after a player becomes eligible to play.
On the football field, playing for ones country
Hmm, "one's country". Was Vinnie Jones playing for his country when he turned out for Wales? Was Alan Kernaghan play for his country when he turned out for the Republic of Ireland.
I actually wrote in a "tribute to Iain Dowie" article years ago that he wasn't playing for his parents' country, he was playing for his country. And I meant it. But I don't think that Maik Taylor, for example, is playing for his country.
Quote
is another matter and real fans can appreciate...
As opposed to what other kind of fans?
Quote
I have already dealt with the ignorance to Cascarino's adoption.
I haven't mentioned Cascarino ???
QuoteNo my dear, juvenile rivalry and schoolyard abuse does not sting.
Kindly point me to where I have used "abuse"?
And methinks I did sting you - otherwise what motivated you to have a competely unwarranted dig at NI fans' attitude to Spain 82 and Mexico 86?
Quote
Maybe travelling to away games was not a culture for NI fans then.
It was not that difficult for the "impovershed" Republic fans.
Qualifying games in Holland, Belgium and France were attended by thousands from 1979 to 1983.
Northern Ireland's support in Spain 82 was proportionally much, much better than England's or Scotland's so your daft non-point still falls.
Anyway (and speaking from a time when NI's travelling support betters many much bigger countries' across Europe), travelling to away games or even major tournaments isn't actually such a great index of how much fans care about their team in said match/tournament - witness the passionate fans in Spain who are notoriously poor travellers.
QuoteI referred to the victory over the adversity in the cesspit of hatred that was Windsor Park then.
So, you think it was some sort of brilliant achievement to get a draw in that match because they were playing a game in front of 12,000 people a minority of whom were chanting some unpleasantly prejudiced songs? Cleary on a bike...
Quote
We know the NI team was at it's 'natural level'.
Oooh, get her. Stung again I see. Wonder what you think the RoI's "natural level" is given the teams' fairly similar records...
Quote from: nifan on August 16, 2008, 11:12:01 AM
I have to side with Main Street on this one MW.
Can we honestly look back at NI at the time and say well at least his father was from NI, if it was his mother he wouldnt know anything about the place.
I'm not sure I get what you mean with that last sentence. I don't think the "father not mother" rule was anything other than silly - just illustrating how restrictive the IFA's eligibility criteria were for such a long time, and how we managed to play in three World Cups despite this (and indeed do pretty damn well in two of them).
Quote
Our recent attempt to get some naturalised british players with completely zero connection with the place has removed any moral high ground we may have believed we had.
While I'm glad we have Maik Taylor in our squad, this wasn't a route I wanted us to go down and I certainly didn't want to see the team packed with people with no connection at all to Northern Ireland except their passport having "and Northern Ireland" on it.
But it's also got to be acknowledged that that was an avenue open to us only during 9 years of our history in any case (and was utilised twice).
Quote from: MW on August 18, 2008, 11:30:58 PM
The Irish constitution is actually very confused on this issue. The Irish state is pretty liberal on allowing dual nationality, yet its constitution demands the primary allegiance of all citizens to the State.
Where exactly in the constitution do you consider it to be confused on this issue?
Where exactly do you think it demands primary allegiance?
QuoteAnd consider the case of a mate of mine, former serviceman who got an Irish passport purely for the sake of convenience as his British one has military stamps on it that wouldn't be too popular in some parts of the world. Doesn't even consider himself Irish, never mind have any sort of allegiance to or affinity with the Republic of Ireland.
Whats to consider?
If he is born in NI, he can choose to take up his automatic right to be an Irish citizen under the Constition of Ireland and therefore can enjoy the rights and protection that Irish citizens have under the constitution.
Quote from: Main Street on August 19, 2008, 01:25:24 AM
Quote from: MW on August 18, 2008, 11:30:58 PM
The Irish constitution is actually very confused on this issue. The Irish state is pretty liberal on allowing dual nationality, yet its constitution demands the primary allegiance of all citizens to the State.
Where exactly in the constitution do you consider it to be confused on this issue?
Where exactly do you think it demands primary allegiance?
It states "Fidelity to the nation and loyalty to the State are fundamental political duties of all citizens". Fair enough it doesn't say the State has to have someone's primary allegiance per se, but it's not exactly totally compatible with someone having fidelity and loyalty to another nation-state.
Quote
QuoteAnd consider the case of a mate of mine, former serviceman who got an Irish passport purely for the sake of convenience as his British one has military stamps on it that wouldn't be too popular in some parts of the world. Doesn't even consider himself Irish, never mind have any sort of allegiance to or affinity with the Republic of Ireland.
Whats to consider?
If he is born in NI, he can choose to take up his automatic right to be an Irish citizen under the Constition of Ireland and therefore can enjoy the rights and protection that Irish citizens have under the constitution.
What's to consider is that he holds no affinity with or allegiance to the Republic of Ireland, and indeed doesn't even see himself as Irish.
[/quote]
Quote from: MW on August 19, 2008, 08:14:17 PM
It states "Fidelity to the nation and loyalty to the State are fundamental political duties of all citizens". Fair enough it doesn't say the State has to have someone's primary allegiance per se, but it's not exactly totally compatible with someone having fidelity and loyalty to another nation-state.
Your original opinion on what the constitution was about, had no basis in fact. That's a minor point, no big deal but you have a tendency to go and on and on and on, discussing things beyond the limits of tedium.
"Not exactly totally compatible" you have certainly stated the obvious that also describes most things in life and brought this particular segment to a close.
QuoteWhat's to consider is that he holds no affinity with or allegiance to the Republic of Ireland, and indeed doesn't even see himself as Irish.
It's no secret that there is a large number of people born in the North who are entitled to Irish citizenship who do not see themselves at all as Irish, who recognise no Irish identity at all.
Just as there is a large nr of people in the North who see themselves as Irish with no British identity at all.
Your mate had the free will not to avail of this Irish citizenship but he has done so, for his own travel convenience, maybe he is grateful for that choice maybe not.
When in the jurisdiction of the state the same requirements as per the constitution will be made of him as are made of any other citizen.
Quote from: Main Street on August 19, 2008, 10:46:55 PM
Quote from: MW on August 19, 2008, 08:14:17 PM
It states "Fidelity to the nation and loyalty to the State are fundamental political duties of all citizens". Fair enough it doesn't say the State has to have someone's primary allegiance per se, but it's not exactly totally compatible with someone having fidelity and loyalty to another nation-state.
Your original opinion on what the constitution was about, had no basis in fact. That's a minor point, no big deal but you have a tendency to go and on and on and on, discussing things beyond the limits of tedium.
"Not exactly totally compatible" you have certainly stated the obvious that also describes most things in life and brought this particular segment to a close.
QuoteWhat's to consider is that he holds no affinity with or allegiance to the Republic of Ireland, and indeed doesn't even see himself as Irish.
It's no secret that there is a large number of people born in the North who are entitled to Irish citizenship who do not see themselves at all as Irish, who recognise no Irish identity at all.
Just as there is a large nr of people in the North who see themselves as Irish with no British identity at all.
Your mate had the free will not to avail of this Irish citizenship but he has done so, for his own travel convenience, maybe he is grateful for that choice maybe not.
When in the jurisdiction of the state the same requirements as per the constitution will be made of him as are made of any other citizen.
So...to sum up, you
do recognise that there are some people who could hold citizenship of a state, the Irish state even, but simply use it as a flag of convenience without having any affinity or allegiance (or, some might say, "fidelity" or "loyalty") to that state.
Super. All good then.
;D
Why did you not ask that in the first place you eejit?
Quote from: Main Street on August 19, 2008, 11:21:13 PM
;D
Why did you not ask that in the first place you eejit?
Meh, I like the verbal scenic route :)
Spain still hanging in there at No.1 with Ireland ten places below that soccer powerhouse of Ghana.
1 Spain 1657 0 Equal 14
2 Germany 1413 1 Up 77
3 Italy 1356 -1 Down -9
4 Netherlands 1306 1 Up 48
5 Brazil 1286 -1 Down 6
6 Argentina 1181 1 Up -19
7 Croatia 1158 -1 Down -65
8 Russia 1079 1 Up 3
9 Czech Republic 1062 -1 Down -49
10 Portugal 1058 0 Equal -17
10 England 1058 4 Up 76
12 France 1035 -1 Down 0
13 Turkey 1032 0 Equal 11
14 Cameroon 1013 -2 Down -14
15 Israel 1004 1 Up 43
16 Bulgaria 951 -1 Down -18
17 Paraguay 934 5 Up 74
18 Greece 907 -1 Down -38
19 Romania 892 -1 Down -35
20 Ukraine 883 -1 Down -10
21 Egypt 879 1 Up 19
22 Nigeria 852 5 Up 34
23 Uruguay 838 -3 Down -49
24 USA 834 -3 Down -27
25 Mexico 827 -1 Down -14
26 Ghana 805 -1 Down -34
27 Switzerland 799 18 Up 158
28 Côte d'Ivoire 780 1 Up 1
29 Sweden 776 -1 Down -18
30 Serbia 775 10 Up 102
31 Ecuador 771 11 Up 110
32 Poland 765 -2 Down 2
33 Scotland 761 -7 Down -59
34 Denmark 757 -3 Down -3
35 Chile 753 1 Up 39
36 Republic of Ireland 751 2 Up 50
Where did you get them at?
Where's the North? ;)
Quote from: Donagh on November 12, 2008, 11:36:46 AM
Spain still hanging in there at No.1 with Ireland ten places below that soccer powerhouse of Ghana.
1 Spain 1657 0 Equal 14
2 Germany 1413 1 Up 77
3 Italy 1356 -1 Down -9
4 Netherlands 1306 1 Up 48
5 Brazil 1286 -1 Down 6
6 Argentina 1181 1 Up -19
7 Croatia 1158 -1 Down -65
8 Russia 1079 1 Up 3
9 Czech Republic 1062 -1 Down -49
10 Portugal 1058 0 Equal -17
10 England 1058 4 Up 76
12 France 1035 -1 Down 0
13 Turkey 1032 0 Equal 11
14 Cameroon 1013 -2 Down -14
15 Israel 1004 1 Up 43
16 Bulgaria 951 -1 Down -18
17 Paraguay 934 5 Up 74
18 Greece 907 -1 Down -38
19 Romania 892 -1 Down -35
20 Ukraine 883 -1 Down -10
21 Egypt 879 1 Up 19
22 Nigeria 852 5 Up 34
23 Uruguay 838 -3 Down -49
24 USA 834 -3 Down -27
25 Mexico 827 -1 Down -14
26 Ghana 805 -1 Down -34
27 Switzerland 799 18 Up 158
28 Côte d'Ivoire 780 1 Up 1
29 Sweden 776 -1 Down -18
30 Serbia 775 10 Up 102
31 Ecuador 771 11 Up 110
32 Poland 765 -2 Down 2
33 Scotland 761 -7 Down -59
34 Denmark 757 -3 Down -3
35 Chile 753 1 Up 39
36 Republic of Ireland 751 2 Up 50
37 Australia 739 -3 2
38 Japan 722 -6 -25
39 Guinea 691 2 21
40 Colombia 686 -7 -53
41 Lithuania 677 -4 -29
:D :D42 Northern Ireland 670 -7 -51 :D :D
43 Morocco 646 0 4
44 Iran 642 4 23
45 Slovakia 627 15 106
46 Honduras 623 4 22
47 Tunisia 613 0 -11
48 Finland 611 -5 -31
49 Mali 603 4 16
49 FYR Macedonia 603 -3 -34
Well now you fans of the team representing 2/3rds of Ulster who put so much faith and substance in these rankings a while back there, what you make of that.
Yes we put so much faith in it:
QuoteThe biggest use of these rankings is slagging off whoever is below you.
When we where at 110 my mates all seemed to think they where a lot more relevant than they now do.
NIfan its not you who that was aimed at as you are one of the more reasonably minded posters on this thread(from both sides) and to be honest it was written in jest and not in a serious manner.
I dont rate the rankings very highly as a barometer for a teams quality or capabilities they are merely a very loose guide and are far from being totally accurate.
The best way to judge how good a team are, is by the tournaments they qualify for and how they progress in those tournaments, as Rep. of Ireland and N Ireland have failed to qualify for any tournaments in a while it would be fair to say both have been poor enough of late. This may or may not change after this qualification campaign but we will have to wait and see.
The FIFA rankings determined the seedings for the 2010 WCQ draw.
That's about the long and the short of it all.
FIFA don't give out any ranking prizes.
Next time they will be used could well be for the WC draw for 2014.
Can see N Ireland slipping outside the top 75 by the end of the qualifiers
Do you see anything else?
I see dead people
Quote from: Main Street on November 12, 2008, 02:17:45 PM
Do you see anything else?
The Trap leading Ireland back till the top 20, again by the end of the qualifying! ;)
Quote from: Goats Do Shave on November 12, 2008, 02:26:17 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 12, 2008, 02:17:45 PM
Do you see anything else?
The Trap leading Ireland back till the top 20, again by the end of the qualifying! ;)
Thank god, i was starting to take you seriously about NI for a minute there.
Quote from: Goats Do Shave on November 12, 2008, 02:26:17 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 12, 2008, 02:17:45 PM
Do you see anything else?
The Trap leading Ireland back till the top 20, again by the end of the qualifying! ;)
do you see any thing about andy reid? does trap haul him back? does he haul himself out of the canteen? think the seedings are crap but if ms is right about them determining the seeding for the wc 2010 then thats news to me
I wrote, determining the seeds for 2010 WCQ. the qualifier draw that was done last December, Ireland were in the 3rd pot, just about.
For the WCF groups, there is only one seed to top each group and I think it´s geographical after that.
sorry i was confused ::) got you now