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With Galway have made significant improvements since last year all Mayo supporters will be extremely wary of shipping another heavy beating. Pride though should make the game competitive for probably 40 minutes when the Tribemen will in all likeliehood pull away.

With that crystal ball you have can you tell how MAYO got on for the year?
Galway to pull away after 40 minutes? 
Mayo will be a different proposition than last year if they can take the scores that are available to them.

Ha nice try Barney but theres no way you can describe Mayo as underdogs for this one!

We can analyse this game all we want but it wont even be a contest if Galway dont sort out midfield. Mayo will win by 6-7 IF Mayo win as much ball as Leitrim did the last day. Mayo looked very strong there yesterday so unless Cullinane hits form...we are screwed. People givin out about Galway's backs and with good reason but if midfield is shored up that will take lots of pressure off them. With Fitzy and Blake or Coyne (or both) to come in they should be a lot tighter. Im not goin puttin silly favourite tags on either...it should be a close battle, Castlebar a factor but how much so im not sure...

I reckon Barney is Johnno in disguise. He was on the Sligo thread downplaying our chances right up until the match yesterday. Now it's barely over and he's saying we'll barely stick with Galway for the first half ;D

I'm not cocky at all but at the moment it's 50/50 between us and Galway. We will be slight favourites due to home advantage.

Don't think C'bar will be a factor but I do expect Mayo to win by 4+  Galway will get wiped at midfield and in the half-back line and the all the forwards will have to win their own batlles (i.e. score) rather than hoping for Joyce and M Meehan to do it for them. It may be the loss that Sammon needs to finally take a sharp look at his team's layout. That said, looking forward to the day out.

Should be a good game. I think Mayo almost certainly go in as favourites seeing as they won fairly impressively yesterday (albeit against a dismal Sligo), they have home advantage, it's their turn to win and Pat Spillane tipped them in the paper yesterday.

Think there is more scoring power amongst the Galway forwards but that won't matter a jot if the midfield can't win enough ball to supply them and Mayo will have McGarrity, Parsons and Harte around the middle so it's difficult to see where Galway are going to get parity there or even close to parity. Cullinane I think will win his share of ball in the air but I don't see anyone there that's going to help him out much. Sammon may have to come up with a plan or something different here.

I'm not overly worried about the Galway defence as with Fitzy and Coyne/Blake back I think they'll be a lot better than the Leitrim game (where in fairness they did only concede 1-3 from play). Plus Hanley won't have to deal with Declan Maxwell. That said if they are they are getting beaten up a stick at midfield it won't matter because no defence can hold out if the opposition keep winning the ball in the middle of the park.

Its hard to say who will be favourites as we dont really know what Mayo are like. For them to be favourites, they will have to have improved a lot since their league form. all they have done since is beat a very poor Sligo team. Galway had a good league & have beaten Roscommon & Leitrim while playing badly so its hard to justify Mayo being favourites. That being said, I would not expect there to be too much in it at the end!

Midfield is obviously the key area. Coleman has done alright aaginst Mayo though in the past so we might be ok there. Could break even. I imagine Cullinane will be starting the next day. He really needs to be in a performance from start to finish (Has he ever done that for Galway??). Always seems to play well coming off the bench. I wonder if Bergin might be able to tog as well? He was due back if we got to an all-ireland QF, Hows his recovery coming along? Also, in the backs, Damien Burke was terrible against Leitrim but he has done well on Conor Mortimer in the last few years. I wonder would it be worth leaving him there, up against a player he knows well, could get his confidence back.

QuoteDon't think C'bar will be a factor

Castlebar will be a big factor. There wont be many Galway fans but there will be shit loads of Mayo fans. If they start to get a sniff of a win in the match, they'll go into their usual overhyped frantic mode.

Our league form wasn't that bad, sure we had some poor results but some of the performances was alright.

I was basing my there isn't much between us comment on the fact that ye only beat us by a point in the league and that was due to a poor kickout by the goalie. Mayo mightn't be great but I've yet to see any proof that Galway are very good either.

Quote from: kevmy on June 23, 2008, 04:08:17 PM
Our league form wasn't that bad, sure we had some poor results but some of the performances was alright.

I was basing my there isn't much between us comment on the fact that ye only beat us by a point in the league and that was due to a poor kickout by the goalie. Mayo mightn't be great but I've yet to see any proof that Galway are very good either.

League form won't matter a jot in this final, much as last year the league semi-final was a bad indicator of how the May 20th match would go. You're absolutely correct that there's no proof that Galway are very good, you'd be doing well to find any evidence of it as we are fairly far from it. Unfortunately for Mayo I'd have ye as not very good either, it will be two average sides in the general scheme of things contesting this final.

I would say in favour of Galway that, although they have been overhyped previous years, the attack does have a nice cut about it in 2008, mainly due to the return to form of one P. Joyce, as he has been majestic again this year so far. Problem is that it's hard to see Meehan and the Joyces getting enough of the ball to do the damage.

As stated already by other Galwaymen on this topic, Mayo should win this match because they have comfortably the better midfield, regardless of the quality (or lack thereof) of the Galway backs the fact remains that no backline can cope with a constant stream of ball coming into the oppostions forwards without coughing up scores from frees and general play.

Besides all that it seems that we're taking it in turns to beat each other in the championship the last few years, why should it be any different in '08?!

A few early thoughts on this one.

* Mayo will have to get the match ups in defense right from the start. Heaney /Joyce. Higgins/ Meehan. Conroy/Breathnach or Conroy. Boyle/ Armstrong etc. But they will have to make sure likes of Cuniffe does nt get dragged into a corner back spot. That would be curtains.

* Mayo might not have the dominance around the middle as some people think. Galway have plenty of muscle there compared to Sligo. Coleman can do plenty of sledging, He was very angry and fired up against us last year and will be again. Thing is we dont have anybody to cut him down to size. When you see the things our midfielders were booked for yesterday it is worrying. Corner forwards get booked for those types of challenges. Midfielders should be crunching somebody for a yellow. Remember Whelan s challenge on Ronan. Cullinane has nt much class about him but he can catch ball and equally important he can prevent the opposition from catching any. V Sligo both Harte and Conroy were able to chip in around the middle largely unopposed but the next day Conroy may have his hands full further back. Galway have plenty of big men around the middle third and likes of PJ wins more than his fair share of breaks. The team that uses the ball best will win as I would expect possession to be 50/50 for most of the match anyhow. This will not be clear cut at all.

* The Mayo forwards as constituted the last day wont be good enough to score enough. I expect Fitzgerald and either or both of Blake and Coyne to start. This changes a lot. Fitz would do ok on Andy. Austin suits Hanley down to the ground cause Austin wont be able to get behind him.When Hanley was asked to turn v Leitrim he looked awful - another reason I d start Dillon on Hanley. Dont think he would handle Dillon while Austin would be easy meat for him. Burke usually beats Conor up. Only an early yellow for Burke would open that door a little. Think we should leave Harte at 11 to deal with the physicality of Blake.

That Galway at least had some sort of test against Leitrim should stand to them a lot more than our relatively facile win against Sligo. Would also agree that with Moysider that a lack of agression around centrefield should be a big concern against Galway - not having seen the Sligo game it's hard to comment but it certainly sounded like Parsons and McGarrity did not have too much physicality to contend with and this will be an even bigget test for Parsons to see if he can deal with this at a higher level. The lack of Brady type bruiser would be a big concern for Mayo if we are to progress further.
The idea of flooding the centre area of the pitch might be the best route but an isolated forward line will still find it difficult enough to break even - an experienced Gardiner back to the half back line would be something that I think might work - much better at getting the ball deeper and heading forward, but his distribution will need to improve considerably.
Mayo and Galway games usually don't have too much between them so I don't think it will matter too much who is pre match favourites to be honest - there'll be very little between them I feel.

QuoteDon't think C'bar will be a factor

QuoteCastlebar will be a big factor. There wont be many Galway fans but there will be shit loads of Mayo fans. If they start to get a sniff of a win in the match, they'll go into their usual overhyped frantic mode.

Funny because its so so true, always an intimitating atmosphere when the Mayo fans get going in any stadium, especially McHale Park, a match for Hill 16 anyday. Ya have to love seeing the faces of Mayo fans, red from roaring, blood vessels about to burst, that feeds on to a confidence team like Mayo.

this could be and probably will be a match decided by goals. Mayo's record in the recent past in this department is dreadful -  Mayo were tops in goals conceded in the league (10) and interestingly Galway came second (7) but Galway did also manage to be in top spot for goals scored (8).
We all know that Mayo has a defence that leaks badly at times. Even last Sunday Sligo (despite their worst ) breached the Mayo defence a couple of times only for David Clarke making some good saves the score might have less flattering. If Mayo are to win there needs to be a 'bodies on the line' attitude because the Galway goal scoring machine is a major threat - much greater than Mayo's. It sound's like an RTE pundit line but 'goals will win it' and on that basis advantage Galway.
One other aspect of Mayo's defence that was not tested at all last Sunday was dealing with the high-ball attack as Sligo had small forwards and opted to play a passing game - - I can't recall one high ball !!! Galway on the other hand do use the high ball option at times to good effect - can the Mayo full back line deal with that ?

Quote from: furboot on June 24, 2008, 09:26:47 AM
this could be and probably will be a match decided by goals. Mayo's record in the recent past in this department is dreadful -  Mayo were tops in goals conceded in the league (10) and interestingly Galway came second (7) but Galway did also manage to be in top spot for goals scored (8).
We all know that Mayo has a defence that leaks badly at times. Even last Sunday Sligo (despite their worst ) breached the Mayo defence a couple of times only for David Clarke making some good saves the score might have less flattering. If Mayo are to win there needs to be a 'bodies on the line' attitude because the Galway goal scoring machine is a major threat - much greater than Mayo's. It sound's like an RTE pundit line but 'goals will win it' and on that basis advantage Galway.
One other aspect of Mayo's defence that was not tested at all last Sunday was dealing with the high-ball attack as Sligo had small forwards and opted to play a passing game - - I can't recall one high ball !!! Galway on the other hand do use the high ball option at times to good effect - can the Mayo full back line deal with that ?

Funny thing about Castlebar is that the Tuam following will go there while not go to Galway... There will be plenty of support from the Maroon..

This should be a great day..A classic match up.. Two managers who are pretty shrude.. Salmon is cooking up something (you know it, it's too bloody quite). Johno can't take a double baiting from Galway especially with Galway probably getting stronger next year..

This match is 50/50.. While Mayo has home advantage, Galway will be bouyed by extra support from home...

Everyone is talking about Midfield which is fair enough but Galway have very few losses this year with the multitude of midfield combos used. This game is so knife edge, midfield will be distroyed imho while the game will be won or lost in the half forward and half back... If Galway can break almost even there they will win with better convert ratio compared to mayo...

Quote from: stephenite on June 24, 2008, 02:11:46 AM
an experienced Gardiner back to the half back line would be something that I think might work - much better at getting the ball deeper and heading forward, but his distribution will need to improve considerably.

Im surprised at that comment and would totally disagree.
Gardiner going forward like a headless chicken is exactly the problem that left us exposed last year in Pearse Stadium.
It lead to at least one goal and a few points because he could not get back in time and they punished us for it.   

QuoteGardiner going forward like a headless chicken is exactly the problem that left us exposed last year in Pearse Stadium.
It lead to at least one goal and a few points because he could not get back in time and they punished us for it. 

Complete rubbish abbeysider. Peader was on the pitch for about 30 minutes that day, in which he played almost all of it at corner back with Fallon and Savage switching, dragging him back. I doubt he left the mayo half of the pitch once. What are you talking about?

Didnt mean to upset you there Venter.

Quote from: venter on June 24, 2008, 10:49:57 AM
Complete rubbish abbeysider. Peader was on the pitch for about 30 minutes that day, in which he played almost all of it at corner

Exactly, Gardiner lasted 34 minutes. He was replaced by Higgins. He originally started corner back.

I know that the Galway forwards were rotating but when he tried to bomb forward a few times he left men free and us exposed and Cormac Bane banged home two goals in less than 19 minutes! Leaving the score at the interval 2-05 to 0-05! The damage was done. I remember clearly watching Gardiner go forward and not being able to get back on time. I was right beside him in the first half and everyone around me was talking about it so im not talking rubbish. Take it easy with the insults.

Quote from: AbbeySider on June 24, 2008, 11:42:42 AM
Didnt mean to upset you there Venter.

Quote from: venter on June 24, 2008, 10:49:57 AM
Complete rubbish abbeysider. Peader was on the pitch for about 30 minutes that day, in which he played almost all of it at corner

Exactly, Gardiner lasted 34 minutes. He was replaced by Higgins. He originally started corner back.

I know that the Galway forwards were rotating but when he tried to bomb forward a few times he left men free and us exposed and Cormac Bane banged home two goals in less than 19 minutes! Leaving the score at the interval 2-05 to 0-05! The damage was done. I remember clearly watching Gardiner go forward and not being able to get back on time. I was right beside him in the first half and everyone around me was talking about it so im not talking rubbish. Take it easy with the insults.

Bit harsh blaming Gardner for everything, there were problems right through the team, the backs were not set up properly at all in fairness, putting 2 wings backs in corner back is a basic mistake, devenney and garnder cannot play in the corners

QuoteTake it easy with the insults.

what insults are you talking about? You can make statements about Mayo footballers, but I cant pass comment on your opinion?? get a grip man.
Take a look at the galway goals on Youtube and tell me exactly how Peadar wa the cause of the whole thing.

Quote from: Davitt Man on June 24, 2008, 11:53:12 AM
Bit harsh blaming Gardner for everything, there were problems right through the team, the backs were not set up properly at all in fairness, putting 2 wings backs in corner back is a basic mistake, devenney and garnder cannot play in the corners

I dont mean to blame Gardiner for everything. The rotation of the Galway forwards really confused things and Gardiner never looked comfortable as an out-and-out defender that day.

It wasnt really fair on him because he likes to play this running game. But I think its a fair point that we were left exposed a few times when he went forward. I think he was marking Savage at the time he went forward and there was a quick kickout and a cross field ball to Savage who hadnt bothered following Gardiner when he went forward. It happened a couple of times. Perhaps if the backs were better organised and there was less confusion then Padear bombing forward would not have been much of a problem.
 

The 1st goal was a long ball over Liam O'Malley who got caught and the 2nd goal BJ losses Bane on the kickout.

Quote from: venter on June 24, 2008, 12:02:08 PM

QuoteTake it easy with the insults.

what insults are you talking about? You can make statements about Mayo footballers, but I cant pass comment on your opinion?? get a grip man.
Take a look at the galway goals on Youtube and tell me exactly how Peadar wa the cause of the whole thing.

someone is cranky this morning!
I don't think Abbeysider is trying to blame Peadar for the 'whole' thing in fairness. Himself and Devenney were isolated quite smartly by the Galway tactics and it didn't suit them, not really their fault imo. However, Peadar does have a habit of attacking alot from wing back, which is fine but not getting back is where the problem starts. If he could kick the ball better and could let it in to the forwards he would not have to go so far up the field and leave the corner backs exposed. I don't want to make him out to be a scapegoat either because we don't have too many halfbacks who are able to lauch the ball in with accuracy, but I don't think it is too harsh to highlight this obvious weakness in his game.

QuoteI don't think Abbeysider is trying to blame Peadar for the 'whole' thing in fairness.

Well he's trying to pin as much on him as possible. See quote below. He was on here before saying Galway wouldnt have got both thier goals so easy if it wasn't for Peadar

QuoteGardiner going forward like a headless chicken is exactly the problem that left us exposed last year in Pearse Stadium.
It lead to at least one goal and a few points because he could not get back in time and they punished us for it. 

Just because I dont let comments like above go unchallenged doesn't make me cranky. No harm in highlighting a weakness, as a team we have our share.

Quote from: OirthearMhaigheo on June 24, 2008, 12:27:00 PM
...not getting back is where the problem starts. If he could kick the ball better and could let it in to the forwards he would not have to go so far up the field and leave the corner backs exposed. I don't want to make him out to be a scapegoat either because we don't have too many halfbacks who are able to lauch the ball in with accuracy, but I don't think it is too harsh to highlight this obvious weakness in his game.

My sentiments exactly.
Being honest I was never a fan of the running game/tactic that we used to deploy in more recent years. However it worked to some extent under Maughan in the mid-late 90's when we had bigger men and were one of the fittest, if not the fittest team in the country. 

But attacking wing backs in todays game can be much more exposed by cute forwards. Some find it exciting football but I feel like the ball should be let go first time into the forwards. Often in the past you see the forwards making a run and being out in front but they didnt get it first time because of the handpassing/messing around the half back/midfield area. Only to go running into trouble and losing possession.

I think this is a key tactic that JOM is trying to move away from. Last week against Sligo he went with Nallen and Tom Cunniffe as wing backs because they are more natural defenders and would not be trying to go forward like sometimes Trev Mortimor, Gardiner, Heaney did in the past.

Quote from: AbbeySider on June 24, 2008, 12:54:54 PM

Quote from: OirthearMhaigheo on June 24, 2008, 12:27:00 PM
...not getting back is where the problem starts. If he could kick the ball better and could let it in to the forwards he would not have to go so far up the field and leave the corner backs exposed. I don't want to make him out to be a scapegoat either because we don't have too many halfbacks who are able to lauch the ball in with accuracy, but I don't think it is too harsh to highlight this obvious weakness in his game.

My sentiments exactly.
Being honest I was never a fan of the running game/tactic that we used to deploy in more recent years. However it worked to some extent under Maughan in the mid-late 90's when we had bigger men and were one of the fittest, if not the fittest team in the country. 

But attacking wing backs in todays game can be much more exposed by cute forwards. Some find it exciting football but I feel like the ball should be let go first time into the forwards. Often in the past you see the forwards making a run and being out in front but they didnt get it first time because of the handpassing/messing around the half back/midfield area. Only to go running into trouble and losing possession.

I think this is a key tactic that JOM is trying to move away from. Last week against Sligo he went with Nallen and Tom Cunniffe as wing backs because they are more natural defenders and would not be trying to go forward like sometimes Trev Mortimor, Gardiner, Heaney did in the past.

There is no doubt that our attacking wing backs were leaving us exposed in the back line when the ball was turned over in the oppositions defensive areas. Did any one notice last Sunday how Mayo used the short passing game to get the ball out of defence. This resulted in the first three scores for Sligo, we would want to get rid of that against Galway or we will be punished. Galway may have frailties in mid-field where Tom Parsons is one for the future no doubt for us, Sligo had one forward and they were in twice for reasonable goal scoring chances. Will the men in maroon be so generous? i dont think so.... nothing between these two teams at the moment.

My early feeling, even coming out of the Sligo match is that Galway will do enough to win this one. They seem to have the upper-hand on the games lately, and with Joyce out at no 11, he is a 'revelation' for them. He is spraying balls here there and everywhere and is accurately finding his forwards. Mayo on the otherhand started hand-passing the ball around the 30 metre line and lost possession now and again... If Sligo put up a good fight, maybe I would be in the 'we're going to beat Galway brigade' but any time I am in that mindset we lose.

Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on June 24, 2008, 08:19:29 PM
Did any one notice last Sunday how Mayo used the short passing game to get the ball out of defence. This resulted in the first three scores for Sligo, we would want to get rid of that against Galway or we will be punished.

Quote from: Farrandeelin on June 24, 2008, 09:25:33 PM
Mayo on the otherhand started hand-passing the ball around the 30 metre line and lost possession now and again...

I noticed that creeping in too. We were not fluent enough when working the ball out of defence. There was no one running off the shoulder of the person in possession to help them out of trouble. I hope this laxly-daisy effort was a once off against Sligo. The whole game was played at a league pace.

I think Heaney got caught out badly at one stage but in fairness there was no one making the burst to help him out. McGarrity passed straight to the opposition too in a similar lapse in concentration. Simple mistakes like that wont happen against Galway I hope!

Any update on Trevor Howley or are we keepin quiet incase a certain Mr Sammon is peekin at the board ;D
Surley to God Gardiners starting place is gone for the final,hes just not a forward.Dillon to come in at CF with Harte
on the wing or maybe keep Harte at CF and put Dillon on the left wing.What about Andy Moran i know he has a tremendous
work rate and wins a savage amount of ball but he dosent score enough and Kilcoynes goal will have him
knocking on the door,although i still think Kilcoyne is better used as an impact sub.

There s a fairly reliable update on somewhere about on the board Dan - maybe on a different thread.

Maybe its a good thing that the story of Mayo v Sligo is how bad Sligo was but the reality is that Leitrim started as poorly against Galway as Sligo did against
Mayo. Leitrim were abysmal in the first 20 mins, clueless as regards tracking runners and stopping ball carriers. Leitrim got a goal to get them back into the game and nailed several frees to make it interesting until the last 10 minutes. David Clarke made 3 fine saves the last day. He was my man of match because those saves meant that Sligo were left without anything to get them going. It left them without hope. If either of the first couple of chances had been scored then Sligo would have got some resolve and could have got a surge on. Thats the way things go in sport. It s alright being wise after the event and say that Sligo were rubbish. The reality is that
Mayo were mostly responsible for making them look bad and Clarke shut the door. Remember we were stuck on 6 points until about 55 mins. A Sligo goal before that would have brought them into the game. One of our 11 points was at least a foot wide. Our score was modest enough in the circumstances. This is now the test for management. The team needs to be tweaked to win this Connacht. My worry is that we wont find our best team until we re facing down the barrell of a gun in a qualifier and in a situation beyond us. Galway is a big match for us. We ve only won 2 Connachts this decade and there s only 2 chances left. Whatever it takes to beat Galway needs to be done.

It's interesting - and slightly intimidating - to reflect just how important this Connacht Final is for Mayo. If Mayo win it then they make it to the last eight, which we would have taken at the start of the summer. And once you're there you don't what will happen. The team are unlikely to win an All-Ireland because they're too loose at the back and don't rack up scores, but they could pop a qualifier in a quarter-final and then we still have something to talk about in August, coming up to the big fair day in Erris. That's not a bad summer, all things considered.

Lose the Connacht Final, however, and you're looking at some dangerous boys in the qualifiers and question marks rising again over more or less every line of the team. To say nothing of Forgotten Men. Johnno was hoping to get people to stay calm, but that's not going to happen now - thank God.

The two Connacht titles that Moysider mentions for Mayo this decade isn't quite as terrible as it sounds. Unless I'm mistaken, it works out like this:

2001: Roscommon
2002: Galway
2003: Galway
2004: Mayo
2005: Galway
2006: Mayo
2007: Sligo

That's not too bad, really, from a Mayo perspective. The wins for Roscommon and Sligo prevent it from being a Galway hegemony, which would be a worst case scenario for Mayo.

Mayo's putrid performances in the qualifiers are perhaps a cause of greater concern. Any year Mayo have been in them they really haven't tried - the only time they got any sort of run was in 2002 when they beat Roscommon, Limerick and Tipperary. Once they came up against Cork in the quarters they got butchered. I wonder why that is? My best guess is that Mayo are a team that need momentum in order to bolster up fragile self-belief. Another reason not to lose the Connacht Final.

Self belief is the biggest thing a county can have, luckily Mayo some of it at least.
Limerick would have beaten cork this year only for it, wexford have it,dublin do not, well not against their equals anyway.
In sports the mind is as important as the body, its not like kerry are supermen or extremely talented,they believe and work hard.
Whether jom has a way of making lads believe is out to jury and we will see very soon.

I heard on Mid West radio tickets for connacht final go on sale from tomorrow - 35 euro for stand and 25 euro for terrace - via clubs, county board (probably) and online (I think ticketmaster)

Quote from: furboot on June 25, 2008, 11:36:18 AM
I heard on Mid West radio tickets for connacht final go on sale from tomorrow - 35 euro for stand and 25 euro for terrace - via clubs, county board (probably) and online (I think ticketmaster)

I just checked,
tickets are on sale now on www.ticketmaster.ie

Anybody living near or travelling through Ballyhaunis could pick a few up at the Connacht Council Offices. Or send them an E mail and get them by post. Handy as anything.
You ll get tickets there for any match bar an AI final.

From the HoganStand

O'Mahony talks up Galway
25 June 2008

John O'Mahony has joked that Galway have been a transformed team since they got "rid of their Mayo managers".

Mayo boss O'Mahony will come face-to-face with his former charges, who he led to All-Ireland title wins in 1998 and 2001, in next month's Connacht SFC final at Castlebar and admits to having been highly impressed with their form since local man Liam Sammon succeeded Peter Ford as manager at the end of last year.

"Looking at it now, I did see the Galway matches and certainly they have two games under their belts - Liam Sammon has done a fantastic job with them over the winter," he said.

"He has rejuvenated them and they seem to be enjoying their football and all of that.

"They are in pole position and they have been favourites from a long way out to win the Connacht championship. We were hurt last year and there is no doubt about that.

"So that's it - even listening to some of their players - they are very impressed with the way things are going and the way Liam Sammon has approached them, so they are glad to be rid of their Mayo managers and all that kind of thing.

"They are a happy camp at the minute and I have great memories and great friendships, but on July 13, there will be nothing but a good friendly rivalry between two teams who respect each other but will battle like hell to get one over on each other."

Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on June 25, 2008, 09:15:16 AM
It's interesting - and slightly intimidating - to reflect just how important this Connacht Final is for Mayo. If Mayo win it then they make it to the last eight, which we would have taken at the start of the summer. And once you're there you don't what will happen. The team are unlikely to win an All-Ireland because they're too loose at the back and don't rack up scores, but they could pop a qualifier in a quarter-final and then we still have something to talk about in August, coming up to the big fair day in Erris. That's not a bad summer, all things considered.

Lose the Connacht Final, however, and you're looking at some dangerous boys in the qualifiers and question marks rising again over more or less every line of the team. To say nothing of Forgotten Men. Johnno was hoping to get people to stay calm, but that's not going to happen now - thank God.

The two Connacht titles that Moysider mentions for Mayo this decade isn't quite as terrible as it sounds. Unless I'm mistaken, it works out like this:

2001: Roscommon
2002: Galway
2003: Galway
2004: Mayo
2005: Galway
2006: Mayo
2007: Sligo

That's not too bad, really, from a Mayo perspective. The wins for Roscommon and Sligo prevent it from being a Galway hegemony, which would be a worst case scenario for Mayo.

Mayo's putrid performances in the qualifiers are perhaps a cause of greater concern. Any year Mayo have been in them they really haven't tried - the only time they got any sort of run was in 2002 when they beat Roscommon, Limerick and Tipperary. Once they came up against Cork in the quarters they got butchered. I wonder why that is? My best guess is that Mayo are a team that need momentum in order to bolster up fragile self-belief. Another reason not to lose the Connacht Final.

Hmmm. While I too have despaired about our inept and selfpitying approach to the qualifiers in the past there is little we can do about that now. I rememberer telling somebody that mattered if they we re not serious about them they could have at least told us in advance, before setting off in horrendous Saturday shopping traffic to support a cardboard -cut-out of a team - which I did and no doubt did you for 5 years,  But there are some obvious measures we can take to increase our chances of winning this years Connacht final. If we lose it will be 4-2 to Galway since 2000 and seeing as we ll have to play them in Salthill 2009 it could end up easily 5-2. Its unlikely any of the other 3 will win 2009. That for me Iolar is a depressing scenario.

On a different note I know Kevin Mc Loughlin has been drafted in for training with the panel, at least on occasion. Hooray. So Tommy did notice his form Cross v Knockmore - or maybe they saved time and just consulted this board. So too have others been called in to make up numbers I m sure, but I m keeping an eye on this lad. While he ll hardly figure this year due to the lumbering slowness of a county team's development it's a step in the right direction. Now if only they gave a call to the outstanding player in that same game we might address the lopsidedness in the provincal record  this decade.

Moysider,
I am sure Mac would love to be back but hold little hope for it. What other county can drop a player like him?
Tell us about this kevin lad from knockmore, i live away and have not seen him in action.

Moysider I agree with you, Kevin McLoughlin is a serious prospect but I don't think we'll see him play this year. I think it would be too much of a step-up for the lad. If he had more experience at under 21 - which he should have got - then he'd be in good shape. I know we're stuck for corner-backs but it'd be asking an awful lot of him imo.

Mannix, McLoughlin was Mayo minor for two years (06 and 07) playing corner back both years. However last year he was the minors outstanding player and probably should have been in a more central position. He has pace, is a great man to sheppard his man away from goal, a great reader of the game and fairly strong as well. Might need to fill out a small bit though. But I have no doubt we'll be seeing him play with Mayo for many, many years.

I do think its good to have him in the panel though, at least to bridge the gap. I think he'll be a starting corner-back next year.

Btw if Galway win the Connacht final they'll be 5-2 up on us in this decade as far as I can work out (2000, 02, 03, 05, and 08) versus 04 and 06 for us.

I wonder will there be a clamour for McD now? Some mentioned that it might be considered after the Sligo game. I'd be shocked myself if it happened. Any word on the home front lads?

Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on June 26, 2008, 09:46:04 AM

Mannix, McLoughlin was Mayo minor for two years (06 and 07) playing corner back both years. However last year he was the minors
I wonder will there be a clamour for McD now? Some mentioned that it might be considered after the Sligo game. I'd be shocked myself if it happened. Any word on the home front lads?

It aint going to happen R&G sniper the galway game is less than 2 weeks ago and o'mahony won't budge now on his decision

Quote from: the Deel Rover on June 26, 2008, 10:04:28 AM

Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on June 26, 2008, 09:46:04 AM

Mannix, McLoughlin was Mayo minor for two years (06 and 07) playing corner back both years. However last year he was the minors
I wonder will there be a clamour for McD now? Some mentioned that it might be considered after the Sligo game. I'd be shocked myself if it happened. Any word on the home front lads?

It aint going to happen R&G sniper the galway game is less than 2 weeks ago and o'mahony won't budge now on his decision

And correctly so too, I'd say. McD, good player though he undoubtedly was, did very little for Mayo in his last years - play tended to go across the ptich when he lined out, instead of forwards. He was also a reference point for the opposition, a big hit on him raised the dander in his opponents and diminished his teammates.

Quote from: mouview on June 26, 2008, 10:21:21 AM

Quote from: the Deel Rover on June 26, 2008, 10:04:28 AM

Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on June 26, 2008, 09:46:04 AM

Mannix, McLoughlin was Mayo minor for two years (06 and 07) playing corner back both years. However last year he was the minors
I wonder will there be a clamour for McD now? Some mentioned that it might be considered after the Sligo game. I'd be shocked myself if it happened. Any word on the home front lads?

It aint going to happen R&G sniper the galway game is less than 2 weeks ago and o'mahony won't budge now on his decision

And correctly so too, I'd say. McD, good player though he undoubtedly was, did very little for Mayo in his last years - play tended to go across the ptich when he lined out, instead of forwards. He was also a reference point for the opposition, a big hit on him raised the dander in his opponents and diminished his teammates.

Jesus i don't know he inflicted plenty of damage on ye boys Mouview ;) he got mom in castlebar in 2006 and last year he came on when he was injured the only real time i remember a big hit on him was last year when Damian Burke shouldered him and yes it did raised the roof but in fairness he has inflicted a lot of damage to galway over the years  if only he got that 3rd goal in 1998  :D

Quote from: mouview on June 26, 2008, 10:21:21 AM

Quote from: the Deel Rover on June 26, 2008, 10:04:28 AM

Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on June 26, 2008, 09:46:04 AM

Mannix, McLoughlin was Mayo minor for two years (06 and 07) playing corner back both years. However last year he was the minors
I wonder will there be a clamour for McD now? Some mentioned that it might be considered after the Sligo game. I'd be shocked myself if it happened. Any word on the home front lads?

It aint going to happen R&G sniper the galway game is less than 2 weeks ago and o'mahony won't budge now on his decision

And correctly so too, I'd say. McD, good player though he undoubtedly was, did very little for Mayo in his last years - play tended to go across the ptich when he lined out, instead of forwards. He was also a reference point for the opposition, a big hit on him raised the dander in his opponents and diminished his teammates.

You ve got to be joking right? You obviously were nt in Croke Park Aug. 06 [ one of his last years] or obviously not in Castlebar last Sunday to watch the all new, all dancing Mayo attack, post macDonald rack up 6 points in 55 mins of football against one of the poorest Sligo teams in the last 20 years. I dont believe this spin still exists in the minds of football people that should know better. If Mac was around last Sunday we could have won by twice as much - fact.

Quote from: the Deel Rover on June 26, 2008, 10:35:59 AM

Jesus i don't know he inflicted plenty of damage on ye boys Mouview ;) he got mom in castlebar in 2006 and last year he came on when he was injured the only real time i remember a big hit on him was last year when Damian Burke shouldered him and yes it did raised the roof but in fairness he has inflicted a lot of damage to galway over the years  if only he got that 3rd goal in 1998  :D

True, Deel, but I'm talking more in general terms. His influence v Galway has declined incrementally, albeit slowly,  since his heydays in the late 90s. Good and all as he was in the '06 semi. v Dublin, he held up the play too much / too much had to go through him   in the final that year, manfully though he tried. This aspect I think JOM has recognised which is why he is not bending his back to recall him.

Anyway, I reiterate my 'Buy' position on Mayo!

Quote from: mouview on June 26, 2008, 11:06:11 AM

Quote from: the Deel Rover on June 26, 2008, 10:35:59 AM

Jesus i don't know he inflicted plenty of damage on ye boys Mouview ;) he got mom in castlebar in 2006 and last year he came on when he was injured the only real time i remember a big hit on him was last year when Damian Burke shouldered him and yes it did raised the roof but in fairness he has inflicted a lot of damage to galway over the years  if only he got that 3rd goal in 1998  :D

True, Deel, but I'm talking more in general terms. His influence v Galway has declined incrementally, albeit slowly,  since his heydays in the late 90s. Good and all as he was in the '06 semi. v Dublin, he held up the play too much / too much had to go through him   in the final that year, manfully though he tried. This aspect I think JOM has recognised which is why he is not bending his back to recall him.

Anyway, I reiterate my 'Buy' position on Mayo!

Does P Joyce not play in a similiar role for Galway now, most of the play is going through him and against leitrim he was dropping back to his half back line to get possession of the ball  yet when Mc did that he was accused of holding up play ??? i know as a forward i would rather mc have his hands on the ball delay for a second or two and get a quality pass into space rather that 5 or 6 handpasses across the pitch

Quote from: the Deel Rover on June 26, 2008, 11:13:06 AM

Quote from: mouview on June 26, 2008, 11:06:11 AM

Quote from: the Deel Rover on June 26, 2008, 10:35:59 AM

Jesus i don't know he inflicted plenty of damage on ye boys Mouview ;) he got mom in castlebar in 2006 and last year he came on when he was injured the only real time i remember a big hit on him was last year when Damian Burke shouldered him and yes it did raised the roof but in fairness he has inflicted a lot of damage to galway over the years  if only he got that 3rd goal in 1998  :D

True, Deel, but I'm talking more in general terms. His influence v Galway has declined incrementally, albeit slowly,  since his heydays in the late 90s. Good and all as he was in the '06 semi. v Dublin, he held up the play too much / too much had to go through him   in the final that year, manfully though he tried. This aspect I think JOM has recognised which is why he is not bending his back to recall him.

Anyway, I reiterate my 'Buy' position on Mayo!

Does P Joyce not play in a similiar role for Galway now, most of the play is going through him and against leitrim he was dropping back to his half back line to get possession of the ball  yet when Mc did that he was accused of holding up play ???

Exactly Deel, I always get a hint of grudging respect from some Galway lads when it comes to Mac, even when they compliment him there is a little dig in there, but if he was theirs.........Joyce is playing the 'Mac' role and it's working for them at the moment. I agree with Mouview though that that is the reason why Johnno does not want Mac back badly enough, Johnno doesn't and never has liked teams based on one player, he is a big fan of the team ethos and I think with Mac slighltly passed his best he feels it is time to go down a different route, rightly or wrongly I think he will stick to his guns on this one. 

C'mon, with respect to macD you can't even begin to compare him with Joyce, an absolute consumate forward. Most of his passes are forward also! Always had a lot of respect for MacD, paritcularly at club level, but I feel his time is past now.

Quote from: OirthearMhaigheo on June 26, 2008, 12:02:12 PM

Exactly Deel, I always get a hint of grudging respect from some Galway lads when it comes to Mac, even when they compliment him there is a little dig in there, but if he was theirs.........Joyce is playing the 'Mac' role and it's working for them at the moment. I agree with Mouview though that that is the reason why Johnno does not want Mac back badly enough, Johnno doesn't and never has liked teams based on one player, he is a big fan of the team ethos and I think with Mac slighltly passed his best he feels it is time to go down a different route, rightly or wrongly I think he will stick to his guns on this one. 

i agree OM that he will and thats his decision  call me selfish but i think it will benefit Cross in the Long Run this year he might not be wanted by mayo this year but mayo's loss is our gain. Its just when players from other counties drop deep there is no word or mention of them slowing up lay but when mc did thats all you would hear.

Quote from: OirthearMhaigheo on June 26, 2008, 12:02:12 PM

Quote from: the Deel Rover on June 26, 2008, 11:13:06 AM

Quote from: mouview on June 26, 2008, 11:06:11 AM

Quote from: the Deel Rover on June 26, 2008, 10:35:59 AM

Jesus i don't know he inflicted plenty of damage on ye boys Mouview ;) he got mom in castlebar in 2006 and last year he came on when he was injured the only real time i remember a big hit on him was last year when Damian Burke shouldered him and yes it did raised the roof but in fairness he has inflicted a lot of damage to galway over the years  if only he got that 3rd goal in 1998  :D

True, Deel, but I'm talking more in general terms. His influence v Galway has declined incrementally, albeit slowly,  since his heydays in the late 90s. Good and all as he was in the '06 semi. v Dublin, he held up the play too much / too much had to go through him   in the final that year, manfully though he tried. This aspect I think JOM has recognised which is why he is not bending his back to recall him.

Anyway, I reiterate my 'Buy' position on Mayo!

Does P Joyce not play in a similiar role for Galway now, most of the play is going through him and against leitrim he was dropping back to his half back line to get possession of the ball  yet when Mc did that he was accused of holding up play ???

Exactly Deel, I always get a hint of grudging respect from some Galway lads when it comes to Mac, even when they compliment him there is a little dig in there, but if he was theirs.........Joyce is playing the 'Mac' role and it's working for them at the moment. I agree with Mouview though that that is the reason why Johnno does not want Mac back badly enough, Johnno doesn't and never has liked teams based on one player, he is a big fan of the team ethos and I think with Mac slighltly passed his best he feels it is time to go down a different route, rightly or wrongly I think he will stick to his guns on this one. 

No "grudging" respect from the majority of Galway supporters.....just plain respect for McDonald from the majority. He was a class inter-county footballer and still is a class club footballer.
But he's gone now....if I were ye id be more worried about losing Hanley to the Australians and losing out on potentially a top class player for 10/15 years than in losing McD for at most one year at the end of his career.

As Mouview said, he did get the Galway dander up and the sight of a Red and Green shirt and McDonald got the blood pumping like no other Mayo footballer........"super Mort" a close second  ;)

Joyce is playing a similar role for Galway at the minute alright.....dont think he drops nearly as deep as McD did at times though. Depends on how that player dropping deep affectes the gameplan and the players around him.....one players habits shouldnt dictate the way the other 14 play. If its to the benefit of the team, let him off, if not he should have the discipline to hold his position.

But sure then, as ye will know only too well, we look at our own through rose tinted glasses dont we.....

Quote from: mouview on June 26, 2008, 12:09:26 PM
C'mon, with respect to macD you can't even begin to compare him with Joyce, an absolute consumate forward. Most of his passes are forward also! Always had a lot of respect for MacD, paritcularly at club level, but I feel his time is past now.

I'm a big fan of Pj as well but in fairness to him he hasn't performed well the past 3/4 for galway years in fact he never seemed happy at all. I know he was playing exceptional at club level but he wasn't doing it for the county for whatever reason hovever this year he seems to have his hunger back. You might say Mc is passed it Mouview but what are you baseing that opinion, on have you seen him play this year ?

Quote from: the Deel Rover on June 26, 2008, 12:20:50 PM

Quote from: mouview on June 26, 2008, 12:09:26 PM
C'mon, with respect to macD you can't even begin to compare him with Joyce, an absolute consumate forward. Most of his passes are forward also! Always had a lot of respect for MacD, paritcularly at club level, but I feel his time is past now.

I'm a big fan of Pj as well but in fairness to him he hasn't performed well the past 3/4 for galway years in fact he never seemed happy at all. I know he was playing exceptional at club level but he wasn't doing it for the county for whatever reason hovever this year he seems to have his hunger back. You might say Mc is passed it Mouview but what are you baseing that opinion, on have you seen him play this year ?

Peter Ford............

Quote from: MaroonAndWhite on June 26, 2008, 12:17:35 PM

Quote from: OirthearMhaigheo on June 26, 2008, 12:02:12 PM

Quote from: the Deel Rover on June 26, 2008, 11:13:06 AM

Quote from: mouview on June 26, 2008, 11:06:11 AM

Quote from: the Deel Rover on June 26, 2008, 10:35:59 AM

Jesus i don't know he inflicted plenty of damage on ye boys Mouview ;) he got mom in castlebar in 2006 and last year he came on when he was injured the only real time i remember a big hit on him was last year when Damian Burke shouldered him and yes it did raised the roof but in fairness he has inflicted a lot of damage to galway over the years  if only he got that 3rd goal in 1998  :D

True, Deel, but I'm talking more in general terms. His influence v Galway has declined incrementally, albeit slowly,  since his heydays in the late 90s. Good and all as he was in the '06 semi. v Dublin, he held up the play too much / too much had to go through him   in the final that year, manfully though he tried. This aspect I think JOM has recognised which is why he is not bending his back to recall him.

Anyway, I reiterate my 'Buy' position on Mayo!

Does P Joyce not play in a similiar role for Galway now, most of the play is going through him and against leitrim he was dropping back to his half back line to get possession of the ball  yet when Mc did that he was accused of holding up play ???

Exactly Deel, I always get a hint of grudging respect from some Galway lads when it comes to Mac, even when they compliment him there is a little dig in there, but if he was theirs.........Joyce is playing the 'Mac' role and it's working for them at the moment. I agree with Mouview though that that is the reason why Johnno does not want Mac back badly enough, Johnno doesn't and never has liked teams based on one player, he is a big fan of the team ethos and I think with Mac slighltly passed his best he feels it is time to go down a different route, rightly or wrongly I think he will stick to his guns on this one. 

No "grudging" respect from the majority of Galway supporters.....just plain respect for McDonald from the majority. He was a class inter-county footballer and still is a class club footballer.
But he's gone now....if I were ye id be more worried about losing Hanley to the Australians and losing out on potentially a top class player for 10/15 years than in losing McD for at most one year at the end of his career.

As Mouview said, he did get the Galway dander up and the sight of a Red and Green shirt and McDonald got the blood pumping like no other Mayo footballer........"super Mort" a close second  ;)

Joyce is playing a similar role for Galway at the minute alright.....dont think he drops nearly as deep as McD did at times though. Depends on how that player dropping deep affectes the gameplan and the players around him.....one players habits shouldnt dictate the way the other 14 play. If its to the benefit of the team, let him off, if not he should have the discipline to hold his position.

But sure then, as ye will know only too well, we look at our own through rose tinted glasses dont we.....

good post there m&w  and ye we do look at our own through rose tinted glasses

Quote from: MaroonAndWhite on June 26, 2008, 12:23:47 PM

Quote from: the Deel Rover on June 26, 2008, 12:20:50 PM

Quote from: mouview on June 26, 2008, 12:09:26 PM
C'mon, with respect to macD you can't even begin to compare him with Joyce, an absolute consumate forward. Most of his passes are forward also! Always had a lot of respect for MacD, paritcularly at club level, but I feel his time is past now.

I'm a big fan of Pj as well but in fairness to him he hasn't performed well the past 3/4 for galway years in fact he never seemed happy at all. I know he was playing exceptional at club level but he wasn't doing it for the county for whatever reason hovever this year he seems to have his hunger back. You might say Mc is passed it Mouview but what are you baseing that opinion, on have you seen him play this year ?

Peter Ford............

why what was the story there ?

Quote from: the Deel Rover on June 26, 2008, 12:25:26 PM

Quote from: MaroonAndWhite on June 26, 2008, 12:23:47 PM

Quote from: the Deel Rover on June 26, 2008, 12:20:50 PM

Quote from: mouview on June 26, 2008, 12:09:26 PM
C'mon, with respect to macD you can't even begin to compare him with Joyce, an absolute consumate forward. Most of his passes are forward also! Always had a lot of respect for MacD, paritcularly at club level, but I feel his time is past now.

I'm a big fan of Pj as well but in fairness to him he hasn't performed well the past 3/4 for galway years in fact he never seemed happy at all. I know he was playing exceptional at club level but he wasn't doing it for the county for whatever reason hovever this year he seems to have his hunger back. You might say Mc is passed it Mouview but what are you baseing that opinion, on have you seen him play this year ?

Peter Ford............

why what was the story there ?

Major personality clash I think. Padraig has his own ideas on how football should be played and they didnt tally with Ford's. There was a noticable change of style under Ford....a  bit more robust shall we say, similar to that day we took on "Brazil" in '06 down in Castlebar. More time lifting weights than playing ball, short handpassing....everything that we didnt do when we got a run of success in late 90's to early 00's. It didnt suit the team, it didnt win us anything and the fans and alot of the players seemed unhappy with Ford's approach. He also treated Padraig like shite last year before Meath game where he dropped him when he didnt have the courtesy to tell him face-to-face in training that he was being dropped...rather calling him on the Friday night to tell him. At that stage of his career, he deserved better. PJ isnt hard to manage so it goes to show the extent of Ford's man management skills

PJ did an interview on Newstalk maybe seven/eight weeks ago and was asked the difference between this year and the previous three years, he put it down to Sammon's approach and views on how the game should be played and his training methods. Without directly criticising Ford, it was a thinly veiled swipe..........

Quote from: mouview on June 26, 2008, 12:09:26 PM
C'mon, with respect to macD you can't even begin to compare him with Joyce, an absolute consumate forward. Most of his passes are forward also! Always had a lot of respect for MacD, paritcularly at club level, but I feel his time is past now.

Aah, yes you can! but as M&W says we look at our own through rose tinted glasses and you will never get us to agree on which is better. The truth is they would compliment each other brillantly, Mac at 11 and PJ in his best position of 14.

If Johnno has the notion that Mayo would be more direct without Mac there was little evidence the last day of any such development emerging. Macs authority and vision has been replaced by the fumbling presence of a lad without any awareness playing in a pivotable position. Yeah, Mac took a look around and tried to use the ball. This lad tries to work a shooting position all the time and sees nothing around him. Hanley is gone and we have to accept that but I refuse to accept why we cant have Mac for a couple more years when he s the best we ve got still. OM outlook on this is fundamentally flawed. But we ve been through all this before. There has been no contact with Mac from management since the text.

Quote from: moysider on June 26, 2008, 01:25:49 PM


If Johnno has the notion that Mayo would be more direct without Mac there was little evidence the last day of any such development emerging. Macs authority and vision has been replaced by the fumbling presence of a lad without any awareness playing in a pivotable position. Yeah, Mac took a look around and tried to use the ball. This lad tries to work a shooting position all the time and sees nothing around him. Hanley is gone and we have to accept that but I refuse to accept why we cant have Mac for a couple more years when he s the best we ve got still. OM outlook on this is fundamentally flawed. But we ve been through all this before. There has been no contact with Mac from management since the text.

Flawed or you just don't agree with it? As you say we've raked over these coals before so no point going there again, but we all have an opinion and just because it doesn't match yours does not mean it's flawed.

ye back to the topic are we going to bate the auld enemy , will heaney pick up PJ and hold him scoreless like he usually does ;) if we stop pj do we stop galway

The recent games between Mayo and Galway in the Championship have gone with home advantage.

2007: Galway beat Mayo at home.
2006: Mayo beat Galway at home.
2005: Galway beat Mayo at home.
2004: Mayo beat Galway at home.
2003: Galway beat Mayo at home.
2002: Galway beat Mayo away.
2001: Did not meet - Galway and Mayo both lost to Ros.
2000: Did not meet - Mayo lost to Sligo, who were subsequently beaten by Galway for the Connacht Championship.

You'll notice that there's only one away win there, in 2002. Mayo got off to a flyer with a Michael Moyles goal in the first minute, but Galway reeled them in over the full seventy, the winning point finally hit by a man who's been mentioned a lot in recent posts, who's playing better than ever and who, if MaroonandWhite's testimony is to be relied upon, don't like Mayo.  :o

It'll be a hell of a game, as usual. Hard not to lick the lips at the prospect.

Ya may be sure Heaney will be on PJ.......I dont get it. Heaneys not a man-marker, hes not even a particularly sticky marker but he has been PJ's arch-nemesis since day dot! I suppose every player has one or two.....PJ's irritants are Heaney, and Tom Nallen for some reason  ::)
Will ye put Keith Higgins back on Mike Meehan again?

Nicky Joyce might be the trump card for us in this one if he stops actin the bollix running into corners he cant get out of. Id like to see him left in the FF line anyway, one on one with any defender they would have their work cut out. Then again, if we win no ball in the midfield, the forwards dont matter at all  :'(

Iolar, never said PJ had a problem with Mayo......just the one "manager" that treated him like dirt on the sole of his shoe which is fair enough I would have thought?

Quote from: OirthearMhaigheo on June 26, 2008, 01:44:13 PM

Quote from: moysider on June 26, 2008, 01:25:49 PM


If Johnno has the notion that Mayo would be more direct without Mac there was little evidence the last day of any such development emerging. Macs authority and vision has been replaced by the fumbling presence of a lad without any awareness playing in a pivotable position. Yeah, Mac took a look around and tried to use the ball. This lad tries to work a shooting position all the time and sees nothing around him. Hanley is gone and we have to accept that but I refuse to accept why we cant have Mac for a couple more years when he s the best we ve got still. OM outlook on this is fundamentally flawed. But we ve been through all this before. There has been no contact with Mac from management since the text.

Flawed or you just don't agree with it? As you say we've raked over these coals before so no point going there again, but we all have an opinion and just because it doesn't match yours does not mean it's flawed.

6 points in 55 mins football the last day would indicate that it is indeed flawed.That with an embarrassment of possession. A player in a key position who cant see a pass and this has been well flagged for some time. How is that not flawed?  Were you there? Tell me how it was an improvement on MacDonald. Educate me. Please.

Quote from: moysider on June 26, 2008, 03:05:48 PM

Quote from: OirthearMhaigheo on June 26, 2008, 01:44:13 PM

Quote from: moysider on June 26, 2008, 01:25:49 PM


If Johnno has the notion that Mayo would be more direct without Mac there was little evidence the last day of any such development emerging. Macs authority and vision has been replaced by the fumbling presence of a lad without any awareness playing in a pivotable position. Yeah, Mac took a look around and tried to use the ball. This lad tries to work a shooting position all the time and sees nothing around him. Hanley is gone and we have to accept that but I refuse to accept why we cant have Mac for a couple more years when he s the best we ve got still. OM outlook on this is fundamentally flawed. But we ve been through all this before. There has been no contact with Mac from management since the text.

Flawed or you just don't agree with it? As you say we've raked over these coals before so no point going there again, but we all have an opinion and just because it doesn't match yours does not mean it's flawed.

6 points in 55 mins football the last day would indicate that it is indeed flawed.That with an embarrassment of possession. A player in a key position who cant see a pass and this has been well flagged for some time. How is that not flawed?  Were you there? Tell me how it was an improvement on MacDonald. Educate me. Please.

catch a grip sonny Jim and don't be so testy. I said what I thought were Johnno's reasons, I also added rightly or wrongly that he would stick by his guns. Maybe you are mixing my opinion up with what I 'think' Johnno is doing. For what it's worth my opinion is this, while Mac is not the player he was in 2004 he is still the best no. 11 in the county. I just feel that Johnno wants to move on, I don't know why, but it seems he wants a different style of play. Enough education for you sean chaoi/sage/oh wise one?!

Quote from: MaroonAndWhite on June 26, 2008, 02:40:10 PM

Iolar, never said PJ had a problem with Mayo......just the one "manager" that treated him like dirt on the sole of his shoe which is fair enough I would have thought?

My apologies Maroon, that's not what I meant. I don't think Joyce has a "problem" with Mayo, all I'm saying is that he likes bating us. And why not? Isn't it his heritage and birthright? Seán Óg de Paor wrote in his book there before Christmas how hard he tried to cheer for Mayo in 1996 but couldn't quite force himself, because of the history between the counties, and that's fair enough. It doesn't make either of them bad fellas; in fact, I'd expect nothing less. I've no problem with Joyce either, I think he's been a superstar for ten years and counting, and more luck to him. I quite naturally hope Heaney covers him like a blanket, but it doesn't follow that I disrespect Joyce as a footballer or a man. I'm only saying, I suppose, that Joyce will be in the mood when he sees the green and red in the crosshairs.

Now leave Peter Ford alone, ya heron-choking scut yeh!   ;D

I'm looking forward to a creamy pint in Johnny McHales already.

if we win i'll buy you one GBB only a medium mind you ;)

Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on June 26, 2008, 04:27:51 PM

Quote from: MaroonAndWhite on June 26, 2008, 02:40:10 PM

Iolar, never said PJ had a problem with Mayo......just the one "manager" that treated him like dirt on the sole of his shoe which is fair enough I would have thought?

My apologies Maroon, that's not what I meant. I don't think Joyce has a "problem" with Mayo, all I'm saying is that he likes bating us. And why not? Isn't it his heritage and birthright? Seán Óg de Paor wrote in his book there before Christmas how hard he tried to cheer for Mayo in 1996 but couldn't quite force himself, because of the history between the counties, and that's fair enough. It doesn't make either of them bad fellas; in fact, I'd expect nothing less. I've no problem with Joyce either, I think he's been a superstar for ten years and counting, and more luck to him. I quite naturally hope Heaney covers him like a blanket, but it doesn't follow that I disrespect Joyce as a footballer or a man. I'm only saying, I suppose, that Joyce will be in the mood when he sees the green and red in the crosshairs.

Now leave Peter Ford alone, ya heron-choking scut yeh!   ;D

Cut out this love in shite....theres a Connacht Final to be won  :D

Quote from: OirthearMhaigheo on June 26, 2008, 04:17:22 PM

Quote from: moysider on June 26, 2008, 03:05:48 PM

Quote from: OirthearMhaigheo on June 26, 2008, 01:44:13 PM

Quote from: moysider on June 26, 2008, 01:25:49 PM


If Johnno has the notion that Mayo would be more direct without Mac there was little evidence the last day of any such development emerging. Macs authority and vision has been replaced by the fumbling presence of a lad without any awareness playing in a pivotable position. Yeah, Mac took a look around and tried to use the ball. This lad tries to work a shooting position all the time and sees nothing around him. Hanley is gone and we have to accept that but I refuse to accept why we cant have Mac for a couple more years when he s the best we ve got still. OM outlook on this is fundamentally flawed. But we ve been through all this before. There has been no contact with Mac from management since the text.

Flawed or you just don't agree with it? As you say we've raked over these coals before so no point going there again, but we all have an opinion and just because it doesn't match yours does not mean it's flawed.

6 points in 55 mins football the last day would indicate that it is indeed flawed.That with an embarrassment of possession. A player in a key position who cant see a pass and this has been well flagged for some time. How is that not flawed?  Were you there? Tell me how it was an improvement on MacDonald. Educate me. Please.

catch a grip sonny Jim and don't be so testy. I said what I thought were Johnno's reasons, I also added rightly or wrongly that he would stick by his guns. Maybe you are mixing my opinion up with what I 'think' Johnno is doing. For what it's worth my opinion is this, while Mac is not the player he was in 2004 he is still the best no. 11 in the county. I just feel that Johnno wants to move on, I don't know why, but it seems he wants a different style of play. Enough education for you sean chaoi/sage/oh wise one?!

No not really. What I d like somebody to tell me is what we are gaining from this great leap forward and what style of play do they want exactly?  Apologies if I came across testy as you put it but for the life of me I can not see any benefits, tactically or otherwise of jettisoning the man. Last year we developed a style of play where Barry Moran did a Donaghy impression and it was most people agree at least a qualified success and could have been better if other forwards bought into the idea. Now that has been abandoned in favour of two inside and Austin on the point, much like Donegal often use. Is this a system to accommodate Austin and will we go back to a big full forward if this tactic does nt work [and I believe Hanley will do a job on Austin]? It did nt work the last day because the player on the point must be able to tie the whole attack together. Austin- for all his quality as a marksman- has nt the attributes necessary to make it work like it could. You see I dont think there s any great plan really to develop a new better style. I believe they re winging it and management got rid of McDonald for personal reasons and not for any advancement of team play or anything as noble as that. If anybody can provide me with evidence to suggest otherwise I ll be glad to consider its merits but I cant see any way things have improved in his absence. If others have I d like to know what they ve seen.

                Regards.

                Moysider Mac an tSaoi.

I think we're actually on the same page moysider, I totally agree that the Barry Moran project should have been persevered with but for some reason it hasn't and I also wish Mac was still involved but unfortunately it's not the case. All I will say is that this is arguably the best management team we have had in quite some time (on paper at least!) so I'm going to reserve judgement on them for the time being.
I did notice one improvement in the style of play the last day and that was that McGarrity and Parsons were obviously instructed to let the ball in long and early. They did this with a certain amount of success even if they didn't do it often enough. Even Heaney kicked the ball in more often than he has in the past, which isn't saying alot but I think there are clear intructions to kick the ball more often rather than run it. The problem is this is going against the instincts of some players like Heaney but you can see work is being done on it.
So to say there isn't a gameplan is a bit harsh, I just think it is taking its sweet time getting the message across to all the players. Lads like Trevor and Heaney will always be inclined to hold on to the ball for too long a couple of times in a game, but they are amongst our best players so what do we do, drop them? that's not a great option obviously! We'll have to see what they come up with the next day, they will have to have a plan B for Austie because I think Hanley might do a good job on him, and for that reason alone it's a shame Barry Moran didn't get a while on the pitch the last day.

Fair enough. I m a fan of the 2 man inside line myself and both Andy and Conor can win early ball. Parsons and Harte probably the best we have for giving good accurate ball inside. But I would prefer to see a clever player like Dillon, or he whose name I m not going to mention for a while, in the Austin role. I think that would really make us tick. Hanley did not look comfortable against Leitrim when asked to turn. If we had somebody to pull him out of position and pop ball in behind him we would profit i think.

Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on June 26, 2008, 04:27:51 PM

Quote from: MaroonAndWhite on June 26, 2008, 02:40:10 PM

Iolar, never said PJ had a problem with Mayo......just the one "manager" that treated him like dirt on the sole of his shoe which is fair enough I would have thought?

My apologies Maroon, that's not what I meant. I don't think Joyce has a "problem" with Mayo, all I'm saying is that he likes bating us. And why not? Isn't it his heritage and birthright? Seán Óg de Paor wrote in his book there before Christmas how hard he tried to cheer for Mayo in 1996 but couldn't quite force himself, because of the history between the counties, and that's fair enough. It doesn't make either of them bad fellas; in fact, I'd expect nothing less. I've no problem with Joyce either, I think he's been a superstar for ten years and counting, and more luck to him. I quite naturally hope Heaney covers him like a blanket, but it doesn't follow that I disrespect Joyce as a footballer or a man. I'm only saying, I suppose, that Joyce will be in the mood when he sees the green and red in the crosshairs.

Now leave Peter Ford alone, ya heron-choking scut yeh!   ;D

Not only that Iolar Seán Óg could nt bring himself to support Mayo in 2004/06 either, even after he had won his AI medals. Now that says something. Dont get me wrong. De Paor is a fella I ve known for years and as sound a man as you could get but in these sentiments you can see the motivation that Galway players have when they play Mayo and dont seem to have as bad when they play anybody else in the province or anybody else at all if you ask me. You could see it in the anger/hate even that young Coleman played with last year v Mayo and will again this year. Mayo players dont have the same dislike of Galway and some are often taken aback by the sheer hostility when they encounter it first. At least some of those I ve known are. Why the difference I m not sure but it does matter in tight games. It may be that Galway football is concentrated more locally geographically and also most players came out of a few schools. Perhaps there is a better indoctrination in Galway of their football heritage and obligations to remain top-dog in the province. On the other hand Mayo players are from all over the place. Some I know never attended a county game until they were togging out to play themselves in Ted Webb or Minor. One well known player of the past was never at a game before he joined the senior squad for training. No way fellas like that could appreciate the passion Galway bring to a game v Mayo. Not the first time anyway. One thing I regret is the softness many Mayo people showed when Galway won in 98, and i include myself in that. It was almost as if it reflected on us in some way which of course was nonsense. Later it was obvious that most Galway people had Seán Óg s approach to our recent finals. While they might not have been delighted with our loss they were pleased we did nt win. And we know and have to respect why this is the way it is. But there is a bit of innocence lost in all this. Since I was a kid until recent years I would, like many I know, support the Connacht champions in the AI series. Not any more though. I ve no wish to ever see Galway or the other 3 win anything anymore. When Mayo are out now I go fishin of a Sunday.

It'll be all fishin after 13 July so  :D

Theres no hatred from our side, or at least from anyone fair-minded that I know. Its rivalry...its AC/Inter, its Red Sox/Yankees, (i was going to say Celtic/Rangers but neither of us would fancy being Rangers  ;)) It was here before us and it will be here long after us hopefully. Look as far as Im concerned, its not a

It'll be all fishin after 13 July so  :D

Theres no hatred from our side, or at least from anyone fair-minded that I know. Its rivalry...its AC/Inter, its Red Sox/Yankees, (i was going to say Celtic/Rangers but neither of us would fancy being Rangers  ;)) It was here before us and it will be here long after us hopefully. Look as far as Im concerned, its not a right Connacht final unless its Galway Mayo as much as that will rile the others but theres plenty more that think like that too if they'd care to admit it. I dont think theres any badness between the counties....theres the odd hard dunt given out but no more that in any derby game. Coleman is like that in a club match....ask anyone - Its not just Mayo......although the sight of ye does no harm to his motivation. Galway have been accused of alot of things but being the big bad bullies isnt one......in fact the Fancy Dan label has been dished out often enough by Spillane & Co. Hatred/hostility shouldnt be mistaken for pide in their own jersey and the desire to have local bragging rights for another few months.

Quote from: MaroonAndWhite on June 26, 2008, 08:09:03 PM
It'll be all fishin after 13 July so  :D

Theres no hatred from our side, or at least from anyone fair-minded that I know. Its rivalry...its AC/Inter, its Red Sox/Yankees, (i was going to say Celtic/Rangers but neither of us would fancy being Rangers  ;)) It was here before us and it will be here long after us hopefully. Look as far as Im concerned, its not a right Connacht final unless its Galway Mayo as much as that will rile the others but theres plenty more that think like that too if they'd care to admit it. I dont think theres any badness between the counties....theres the odd hard dunt given out but no more that in any derby game. Coleman is like that in a club match....ask anyone - Its not just Mayo......although the sight of ye does no harm to his motivation. Galway have been accused of alot of things but being the big bad bullies isnt one......in fact the Fancy Dan label has been dished out often enough by Spillane & Co. Hatred/hostility shouldnt be mistaken for pide in their own jersey and the desire to have local bragging rights for another few months.

At least the qualifiers will postpone another days fishin if we trip up July 13. Both teams are in a situation where they ll have 2 chances to make quarters - if that makes any sense. Would nt want to be the loser though. There ll be some battle hardened campaigners out there by then. Must clarify my use of the word hate/hostile. I mean it in the sense of an intense dislike of losing to another opposition rather than any badness or dirt. Most teams have one they dislike losing to more than any other. Dont think Mayo feel as strongly about it as Galway players do. And i wish they did. Any motivation is good in sport and 'hatred ' is one of the best. I ve seen it work plenty times at club down the years too.

Jeez Moysider your being a wee bit melodramatic!! By the time the match comes around you will be sounding like sligoian

Quote from: ludermor on June 26, 2008, 09:28:10 PM
Jeez Moysider your being a wee bit melodramatic!! By the time the match comes around you will be sounding like sligoian

Yeah Yeah I know. Need to chillax a bit alright. Dont worry though. There s only one Sligonian.

The question about tradition and attitude is a fascinating one. In his book (and it's a must-read, it really is) De Paor writes about his first match with Jarlath's, as a first year, and the lads were told to "fight like dogs." I got the feeling, reading it, that it's a motto that De Paor took to heart, and stuck to all through his career. And he was dead right, of course.

Mayo don't fight like dogs. And if a player arose who did fight like a dog he wouldn't be picked. You hear a lot of this old chat about players playing "in the Mayo way." The Board will only have players who play "in the Mayo way."

Now, when Jack O'Connor was rebuilding Kerry, do you think he was arsed about who was playing "in the Kerry way?" No, he was not. That's all chat for the All-Stars dinner. In the real world, O'Connor knew you fight fire with fire.

Mayo don't. The closest Mayo have had to a player with that amount of fight in him was David Brady, and he was hated by as many Mayo fans as he was admired. And he was never loved. But it's a measure of how great a player he was that Galway, to man, despised him. And that's what you want.

As regards the mental attitude thing, and Galway feeding off their long and rich and tradition, would it be true to say that tradition was one crossbar width away from biting the dust? Mayo are still reeling from those recent All-Ireland defeats but Galway suffered exactly the same trauma in the seventies, and were lower than Mayo ever were when they lost to Dublin in 1983. Kevin Walsh, De Paor and others have said that beating Mayo in 1998 was what turned them around. If that hadn't happened, would Galway have fallen as a football power? And don't think it can't happen - Cavan, God be good to them, are annual proof that it can.

Fascinating stuff. God, it's a pity there isn't a porter icon up above me here to really get this thing going. Mods!

On the question of tradition, we draw from it and are proud of it - but tradition in terms of the type of football we try to play, not "arent we great for winning 3 in a row forty yrs ago". Walsh & Sean Og were right when they said that beating Mayo in 98 was a turning point......Galway's fortunes changed when we got a better class of player in the late 90's and a bit of belief from beating the likes of ye, the previous years AI Finalists but we had a bollix of a 15 years before that. We hit a purple patch in terms of player.....Joyce (x2), Donnellan, Divilly, Savage to add to Walsh, De Paor, Tomas Mannion, Ja.......I dont think with lads like that that we would have fallen too far but it would have been a fair setback to lose to ye three yrs in a row.

Cavan have not produced a top class young player since Dermot McCabe. Thats when tradition means fcuk all, when ya stop producing at underage. All comes down to the players ya have at the end of the day......we were just blessed with a few gems those few years. You'd get it hard to find a weak link in the 198-2001 teams.......you couldnt say that about the team now. But we are moving in the right direction I think. If only we had another Kevin Walsh  :'(

Quote from: OirthearMhaigheo on June 26, 2008, 05:46:31 PM
I think we're actually on the same page moysider, I totally agree that the Barry Moran project should have been persevered with but for some reason it hasn't and I also wish Mac was still involved but unfortunately it's not the case. All I will say is that this is arguably the best management team we have had in quite some time (on paper at least!) so I'm going to reserve judgement on them for the time being.
I did notice one improvement in the style of play the last day and that was that McGarrity and Parsons were obviously instructed to let the ball in long and early. They did this with a certain amount of success even if they didn't do it often enough. Even Heaney kicked the ball in more often than he has in the past, which isn't saying alot but I think there are clear intructions to kick the ball more often rather than run it. The problem is this is going against the instincts of some players like Heaney but you can see work is being done on it.
So to say there isn't a gameplan is a bit harsh, I just think it is taking its sweet time getting the message across to all the players. Lads like Trevor and Heaney will always be inclined to hold on to the ball for too long a couple of times in a game, but they are amongst our best players so what do we do, drop them? that's not a great option obviously! We'll have to see what they come up with the next day, they will have to have a plan B for Austie because I think Hanley might do a good job on him, and for that reason alone it's a shame Barry Moran didn't get a while on the pitch the last day.

Is it not obvious to ye at this stage lads?  There is only one man for the 14 jersey on July 13th.  The bould Jimmy Burke  :D :D :D

QuoteWalsh & Sean Og were right when they said that beating Mayo in 98 was a turning point....

always amazes me that  game after a long time on the down castlebar was choc full of heron chokers. it was if the smelt blood or was it they just felt mayo were in bother after 2 AIF defeats but they knew something was up.

Quote from: MaroonAndWhite on June 26, 2008, 11:15:59 PM
On the question of tradition, we draw from it and are proud of it - but tradition in terms of the type of football we try to play, not "arent we great for winning 3 in a row forty yrs ago". Walsh & Sean Og were right when they said that beating Mayo in 98 was a turning point......Galway's fortunes changed when we got a better class of player in the late 90's and a bit of belief from beating the likes of ye, the previous years AI Finalists but we had a bollix of a 15 years before that. We hit a purple patch in terms of player.....Joyce (x2), Donnellan, Divilly, Savage to add to Walsh, De Paor, Tomas Mannion, Ja.......I dont think with lads like that that we would have fallen too far but it would have been a fair setback to lose to ye three yrs in a row.

Cavan have not produced a top class young player since Dermot McCabe. Thats when tradition means fcuk all, when ya stop producing at underage. All comes down to the players ya have at the end of the day......we were just blessed with a few gems those few years. You'd get it hard to find a weak link in the 198-2001 teams.......you couldnt say that about the team now. But we are moving in the right direction I think. If only we had another Kevin Walsh  :'(

Yeah. Thing is about Walsh is how O Mahoney kept him going way into his thirties though injury prone. His best years were in his thirties. Now the same manager is getting rid of a player on top of his game that is badly needed.... but hey I promised not to mention this individual for a while. You re right about the late 90 s team and to be honest the current team has a bit to go and PJ will leave a big void sooner than later. Savage was the man I always feared. More so than Donnellan ,PJ or Ja. We seemed to usually cope with those 3. But of course they were class on lots of big days in Croke Park. Now Matty Clancy is the one I would fear more than Meehan or Joyces or Armstrong. Always thought he was a handful and could nt understand how many Galway fans questioned his worth on the team. He s the man we need to pin down in this game. I would delegate Nallen to do the job myself.

Quote from: rosnarun on June 26, 2008, 11:33:58 PM

QuoteWalsh & Sean Og were right when they said that beating Mayo in 98 was a turning point....

always amazes me that  game after a long time on the down castlebar was choc full of heron chokers. it was if the smelt blood or was it they just felt mayo were in bother after 2 AIF defeats but they knew something was up.

That was the JOM factor....he came in huge reputation, good young players and the crowd followed. Plus Dympna Burke God rest her was a one woman band that year when it came to gettin the crowd back.

The JOM factor has waned slightly since im sensing  :D

Quote from: rosnarun on June 26, 2008, 11:33:58 PM

QuoteWalsh & Sean Og were right when they said that beating Mayo in 98 was a turning point....

always amazes me that  game after a long time on the down castlebar was choc full of heron chokers. it was if the smelt blood or was it they just felt mayo were in bother after 2 AIF defeats but they knew something was up.

Often thought the same myself. Never seen a tension like it in the province before - or since. The sickening thing was all those instant fans were rewarded with success straight away and where are we still. Something similar befell us in Mark. Park in 2000 when Sligo fans were actually bullish and laughing about our warm up drills before the start. Guess what happened next? They must have known something. Some kind of telepathy was at work. Now if we we went off in that mood we d be lucky to see half time.

Quote from: rosnarun on June 26, 2008, 11:33:58 PM

QuoteWalsh & Sean Og were right when they said that beating Mayo in 98 was a turning point....

always amazes me that  game after a long time on the down castlebar was choc full of heron chokers. it was if the smelt blood or was it they just felt mayo were in bother after 2 AIF defeats but they knew something was up.

I was there that day alright and there was a huge Galway crowd there for whatever reason. Maybe the freshness of new management and a raft of new young players attracted them along but certainly I doubt anybody had us down to win or even challenge for the All-Ireland that year.

While 98 was obviously important and all I would say that 95 was equally as important. Galway had gone 8 years without a Connacht title and went up to Dublin to play the Ulster champions Tyrone. Ulster teams of course having won the last 4 All-Ireland's on the trot. I think people at home felt we were going to get embarrassed such was the gulf between Connacht and Ulster football back then but Galway put in a very credible performance on the day and could well have won the game. I think that brought a little belief back into football west of the Shannon and Mayo of course went even closer themselves the following two years.

Quote from: OirthearMhaigheo on June 26, 2008, 12:51:06 PM

Quote from: mouview on June 26, 2008, 12:09:26 PM
C'mon, with respect to macD you can't even begin to compare him with Joyce, an absolute consumate forward. Most of his passes are forward also! Always had a lot of respect for MacD, paritcularly at club level, but I feel his time is past now.

Aah, yes you can! but as M&W says we look at our own through rose tinted glasses and you will never get us to agree on which is better. The truth is they would compliment each other brillantly, Mac at 11 and PJ in his best position of 14.

PJ had a more discerning footballing brain, ice-cool temperament and relentless ability to dust himself down and put opponents to the sword, adversity didn't diminish him.

McD had great on-the-ball strength and eye-catching vision allied to a left foot which could catch the eyes of the Gods.

PJ would be my first choice at either CF or preferably FF. McD though picked out outrageous scores and passes at times and could battle with the toughest too, his skills will rightly live long in the memory of those who saw him play also. If PJ was picked at FF, I agree McD is well worthy of consideration at 11.

Yeah we went to 4 all Ireland finals since 1995 and lost all 4 [ last 5 if you include 89]. Galway won 2 out of 3 finals since 98. Is it no wonder some of us are bitter, twisted, paranoid and above all impatient. When I hear about rebuilding, transition, change of style its as good as tellling me to forget about it and take  up golf. Nothing to see here pal. Move along. While galway had their Ja s Joyces, Mannion , Donnellan, Walsh end up with 2 crosses all TJ, Willie Joe, Nallen, McHale, McDonald, Horan ended up with is condescension and the stigma of  losers.

The one thing never mentioned about 98 in these topics is the fact that McDonald had a goal disallowed which actually crossed the line.

All being said we were Dead Man Walking that year, but it did line us up nicely for a serious Connacht Final in 99.

Moysider, you say Mayo teams never have the anger to take on Galway. I think part of our problem on the bigger stage is that we have focussed too much on Galway being the end game. If we win, we lose the heads; if we lose, we're down in the dumps and virtually throw the Qualifiers.

Whoever wins on 13th July it is going to bring them on a huge amount, and set them up as the leading light in Connacht for the next generation - neither will dominate, but both teams have a major sprinking of youth which needs a boost.

QuoteThe one thing never mentioned about 98 in these topics is the fact that McDonald had a goal disallowed which actually crossed the line.

From what I remember, TV replays were not conclusive. Also, Seanog DePaor has always insisted afterwards that it did not cross the line.

QuoteWhile 98 was obviously important and all I would say that 95 was equally as important. Galway had gone 8 years without a Connacht title and went up to Dublin to play the Ulster champions Tyrone. Ulster teams of course having won the last 4 All-Ireland's on the trot. I think people at home felt we were going to get embarrassed such was the gulf between Connacht and Ulster football back then but Galway put in a very credible performance on the day and could well have won the game. I think that brought a little belief back into football west of the Shannon and Mayo of course went even closer themselves the following two years.

95 was the key year for Galway & Connacht football. They went to Croke Park being written off by everybody but played some great stuff that day and could have won. Coming off the backs of Leitrims & Mayos two previous all-ireland semi finals, its was a huge hughe improvement. This game served Mayo just as much as Galway as when Mayo beat us in 96, they had the belief that they could get to an all-ireland final (something that was badly missing in 93).


To say that we did not have weak links in the 98 team is untrue. We had plenty of weak links. Tomas Meehan was never a tight corner back, Ray Silke & John Divilly were both very loose in the half-back line (but made up for a lot of it by sending good ball out of the defence) and we never found a settled player in the third half forward line position (after Paul Clancy went off injured in the Leitrim game, we tried somebody new there for every game including the all-ireland final).

Also, people have mentioned Walsh, De Paor, Tomas Mannion, Ja etc. but nobody has mentioned Finnegan. He was equally as important if not more so than all those players in 98 (and that era).  Actually Finnegan was probably our most consistent player in the mid - late 90's.

Quote from: Galforever on June 27, 2008, 10:31:31 AM
Also, people have mentioned Walsh, De Paor, Tomas Mannion, Ja etc. but nobody has mentioned Finnegan. He was equally as important if not more so than all those players in 98 (and that era).  Actually Finnegan was probably our most consistent player in the mid - late 90's.

Ye your right there Galforever finnegan barely gets recognition for his contribution if memory serves me right he was excellent in the Ai final did he take the frees as well?

Of course, Finnegan scored that huge free in injury time in Tuam to draw the Connacht final against Ros. No good winning in Castlebar if you follow up with defeat to Ros.
Going back to that 95 team, the Connacht final in Tuam that year was one of the most one sided finals in memory. Mayo were woeful that that. Who was Mayo's manager that year? Jack O'Shea?
That match was preceeded with a great minor final that witnessed the emergence of Donnellan and Savage; although I don't recall PJ playing that day.

I thought jack o was manager in 1993 when we lost the final to Leitrim , i think anthony egan was manager in 1995 in Tuam with mc stay as trainer

Quote from: the Deel Rover on June 27, 2008, 11:04:42 AM
I thought jack o was manager in 1993 when we lost the final to Leitrim , i think anthony egan was manager in 1995 in Tuam with mc stay as trainer

That's the one! that was one dreary day, Padgraig Brogan played his last game in the green and red (and lots of white for some reason) that day I think, we were absolutely shocking. The minor game was one of the best games I have ever seen though, we had Sean Roughneen from Swinford at midfield who was a great minor footballer and Karl O'Boyle at fullforward. For Galway the most impressuve player was a young Derek Reilly from Corofin, he was a class underage player, whatever happend to him?

Quote from: corran ard on June 27, 2008, 11:00:55 AM

Going back to that 95 team, the Connacht final in Tuam that year was one of the most one sided finals in memory. Mayo were woeful that that. Who was Mayo's manager that year? Jack O'Shea?
That match was preceeded with a great minor final that witnessed the emergence of Donnellan and Savage; although I don't recall PJ playing that day.

Yes, that was a hugely talented Galway minor side; in the curtain-raiser to the senior semi in '95 they were defeated by Derry in a match they really should have won - they conceded a soft goal very late on if memory serves.

Moving forward to '98, actually many people in the know in Galway circles felt good about the team that year - we felt that if we overcame Mayo in the first round we could go a long way - and so it proved!

Quote from: OirthearMhaigheo on June 27, 2008, 11:14:07 AM

Quote from: the Deel Rover on June 27, 2008, 11:04:42 AM
I thought jack o was manager in 1993 when we lost the final to Leitrim , i think anthony egan was manager in 1995 in Tuam with mc stay as trainer

That's the one! that was one dreary day, Padgraig Brogan played his last game in the green and red (and lots of white for some reason) that day I think, we were absolutely shocking. The minor game was one of the best games I have ever seen though, we had Sean Roughneen from Swinford at midfield who was a great minor footballer and Karl O'Boyle at fullforward. For Galway the most impressuve player was a young Derek Reilly from Corofin, he was a class underage player, whatever happend to him?

Was  Roughneen was the red haired lad Om ? whatever happened to him ?

Derek Reilly was seen at the time as *the* rising star of Galway football - however his smaller stature mitigated against him and he.. ahem... enjoyed the social life also quite a bit apparently. Dunno if he plays much these days, not at Senior or Intermediate level now anyway.

The Galway 95 minor team was superb all right and the amount of them that came through to 98 was huge for a minor team. How they didn't win the All Ireland is a mystery and even more so the U-21 title of 98. Don't forget that ye won the minor last year the challenge now is to bring those players through also. Our 96 and 97 teams were based round the U-21 teams of 94 and 95. In my opinion we should have be doing the same with the 06, 07 and 08 U-21 teams.

All this reminiscing about 98 and 01 is great but I think that has been the problem for Galway these last 7 years looking back not forward. It was said that Galway always saved their best football for Croke Park yet they haven't won a game there since the 01 final.

Anyway back to the main event, I slightly fancy Galway cos they have a better spread of scoring forwards. On the law of averages Michael Meehan is bound to have a good game against Mayo soon and I think this is the year.

If it is a draw I wonder when the replay would be as I have holiday plans!

QuoteMoving forward to '98, actually many people in the know in Galway circles felt good about the team that year - we felt that if we overcame Mayo in the first round we could go a long way - and so it proved

With more than a little help from Seamus Prior in Tuam!!

Felt that Galway got the breaks along the way that you need to win an AI including meeting Kildare and not Kerry in the final. Plus when they needed it their big players produced the goods - Mannion's performance in the first half of the AI final was immense.

Maybe the luck that O'Mahoney had in 98 will continue this year with Mayo. I feel they will win Connacht and provided they avoid Kerry are capable of going all the way. O'Mahony has been a lucky general in the past!!!

Quote from: the Deel Rover on June 27, 2008, 11:20:19 AM

Quote from: OirthearMhaigheo on June 27, 2008, 11:14:07 AM

Quote from: the Deel Rover on June 27, 2008, 11:04:42 AM
I thought jack o was manager in 1993 when we lost the final to Leitrim , i think anthony egan was manager in 1995 in Tuam with mc stay as trainer

That's the one! that was one dreary day, Padgraig Brogan played his last game in the green and red (and lots of white for some reason) that day I think, we were absolutely shocking. The minor game was one of the best games I have ever seen though, we had Sean Roughneen from Swinford at midfield who was a great minor footballer and Karl O'Boyle at fullforward. For Galway the most impressuve player was a young Derek Reilly from Corofin, he was a class underage player, whatever happend to him?

Was  Roughneen was the red haired lad Om ? whatever happened to him ?

That was him, red flowing locks as they say. I don't know what happened him to be honest, he still played for swinford for a few years after that but never made the breakthrough. I think the fact that he was such a big fella for minor meant he stood out and then when people caught up with him in size he had lost his advantage. I heard he enjoyed a good social life from some Swinford lads, don't know if that was the real reason he fell off the radar! He's one of so many talented Mayo underage lads that have slipped through the net, it's a shame but will continue to happen.

Galway in all likelihood would probably have beaten Kerry also that year, we had enough good backs to hold them. Perhaps only Tyrone or Dublin could have stopped them once they got out of Connacht.

"We have to get Mannion back" - JOM, post 2000 AI final.

"After the Roscommon defeat I didn't want to get out of bed. I didn't want to meet anyone. I didn't know what I was doing. Then on the Tuesday night back training,  I saw Tomas Mannion walking through the gate. It would have been so easy for him to stay at home working on the farm instead of coming in. That gave me the will to go on." - JOM, post 2001 AI final.

Quote from: mouview on June 27, 2008, 11:31:51 AM
Derek Reilly was seen at the time as *the* rising star of Galway football - however his smaller stature mitigated against him and he.. ahem... enjoyed the social life also quite a bit apparently. Dunno if he plays much these days, not at Senior or Intermediate level now anyway.

I heard that sure enough, I think he went to the IT in Castebar for a year and enjoyed himself shall we say. It's a shame as he looked well up to the standard of senior football in the All-Ireland club final in '98, but no more than ourselves, Galway have lost plenty of talent down the years to one thing or another.

Liam Hayes slating McDanger, that Hayes is a d1ck

Watch this

http://gaa.tv3.ie/video.php?video_request=176

Quote from: Davitt Man on June 27, 2008, 12:45:52 PM
Liam Hayes slating McDanger, that Hayes is a d1ck

Watch this

http://gaa.tv3.ie/video.php?video_request=176

Hayes will say any old shite to be controversial. He makes Eamonn Dunphy seem rational.

Quote from: Davitt Man on June 27, 2008, 12:45:52 PM
Liam Hayes slating McDanger, that Hayes is a d1ck

Watch this

http://gaa.tv3.ie/video.php?video_request=176

i watched the programme last week and i thought it was disgracefull , especially the way they focussed on the 2006 Ai final , theres a played who has played for 14 years and thats all that they could show very poor imo can't imagine Rte  doing the same.  Hayes is an ass and comess across on tv as a smug git

It should be remembered also that the minors in '95 had been in a All-Ireland minor final the year and also St. Jarlaths won the Hogan Cup with a lot of the same players before so the talent was there. The main man on that minor team was John 'scan' Concannon, another man who lost his way. I think confidence has a lot to do with it, a lot of the young guys who joined the team in '98 had no fear, they also had a culture of winning things are were used to winning which is important. That said when it came to some of the crunch times that year it was the older more experienced guys like Ja, Finnegan and Kevin Walsh that came up trumps.

I think like someone said earlier they did catch a number of breaks like Ulster teams on a bit of a dip and not playing Kerry in the final yet they was there to take advantage. One of the reasosn for the bite in the game in Castlebar that year is that a lot of people felt that
whoever won that game would be in the All-Ireland final and so it proved. I think overall the team in 2001 was a more rounded team than in 98 and really did not have any weak links. This is the difference with today, how many of the team today would get in ahead of the guys we had in 2001? Not many i would suggest!!

Quote from: mouview on June 27, 2008, 11:52:35 AM
Galway in all likelihood would probably have beaten Kerry also that year, we had enough good backs to hold them. Perhaps only Tyrone or Dublin could have stopped them once they got out of Connacht.

"We have to get Mannion back" - JOM, post 2000 AI final.

"After the Roscommon defeat I didn't want to get out of bed. I didn't want to meet anyone. I didn't know what I was doing. Then on the Tuesday night back training,  I saw Tomas Mannion walking through the gate. It would have been so easy for him to stay at home working on the farm instead of coming in. That gave me the will to go on." - JOM, post 2001 AI final.

Not sue about Dublin mouview as they are the one team I really wanted us to meet anytime between 98 and probably 02 and really bury the ghosts of 83.  It has to be remembered that Galway football was at probably its lowest ebb ever after that final and we didnt really do anything of note again until 95.

Quote from: GaillimhIarthair on June 27, 2008, 01:57:37 PM

Quote from: mouview on June 27, 2008, 11:52:35 AM
Galway in all likelihood would probably have beaten Kerry also that year, we had enough good backs to hold them. Perhaps only Tyrone or Dublin could have stopped them once they got out of Connacht.

"We have to get Mannion back" - JOM, post 2000 AI final.

"After the Roscommon defeat I didn't want to get out of bed. I didn't want to meet anyone. I didn't know what I was doing. Then on the Tuesday night back training,  I saw Tomas Mannion walking through the gate. It would have been so easy for him to stay at home working on the farm instead of coming in. That gave me the will to go on." - JOM, post 2001 AI final.

Not sue about Dublin mouview as they are the one team I really wanted us to meet anytime between 98 and probably 02 and really bury the ghosts of 83.  It has to be remembered that Galway football was at probably its lowest ebb ever after that final and we didnt really do anything of note again until 95.

That's 12 long years of pain, Gaillimh. The current period in the doldrums may last as long also unfortunately. Current and last years Minors will have to shoulder the burden in the medium term I think.

Jezaz that Hayes can talk some gutter.

Quote from: the Deel Rover on June 27, 2008, 01:37:46 PM

Quote from: Davitt Man on June 27, 2008, 12:45:52 PM
Liam Hayes slating McDanger, that Hayes is a d1ck

Watch this

http://gaa.tv3.ie/video.php?video_request=176

i watched the programme last week and i thought it was disgracefull , especially the way they focussed on the 2006 Ai final , theres a played who has played for 14 years and thats all that they could show very poor imo can't imagine Rte  doing the same.  Hayes is an ass and comess across on tv as a smug git

Hayes really is a lazy journo talks pure bull

Given that Galway wanted to bury the ghosts of 1983 regarding the Dubs, we buried them for ye in 06! ;D Remember, Dublin hadn't lost to a Connacht team for 73 years previous to that I believe. You can call me stupid, but nobody explained to me why Galway are called herrin-chokers so could someone do so now please.

Reading through this thread, it seems that both of us (Mayo and Galway) were as bad as the other in the early part of the nineties. To me neither is capable of setting the world on fire this year either, although Galway have the potential to do better than Mayo if they win in my opinion.

Not sure Galway have the better potential going forward. Galway have a few marquee forwards but often they dont do the business. Mayo probably have the advantage at midfield and we have the best goalkeeper. Our backs are a work in progress and while Galways are more settled they have their weaknesses too. Overall I believe Mayo have more pace about them and should be trying to play the game as high a tempo as possible. Galway will like it more structured and deliberate.

As regards the early 90s Galway were worse than we were. They could nt even get to Croke Park to get a bad batin.

Anyway thats in the past. Anybody else sense that this championship as a whole is being blown apart. Unexpected defeats of likes of Tyrone and Derry. Real if unexpected form from likes of Fermanagh and Wexford. Kerry might run into trouble too with D O Sé injured as is Darren O Sullivan, then there s Galvin. Only thing is they have weeks, nay months. to recover/ appeal. Likes of Mayo/Galway should not be thinking of rebuilding nonsense for future years  but concentrating on this year because this year might yet be as good an opportunity as any.

Quote from: moysider on June 27, 2008, 11:04:51 PM
As regards the early 90s Galway were worse than we were. They could nt even get to Croke Park to get a bad batin.

True. Although once we got there we usually knew how to come back with the big pot. ;D

Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on June 28, 2008, 01:01:17 AM

Quote from: moysider on June 27, 2008, 11:04:51 PM
As regards the early 90s Galway were worse than we were. They could nt even get to Croke Park to get a bad batin.

True. Although once we got there we usually knew how to come back with the big pot. ;D

That was the late nineties GalwaybBayBoy and I m well aware of that. Still have bad episodes about all that. Early 90 s were 1990- 1994 where we were better but F***** up big time. 3 times in Connacht alone with good players. 90 and 91 with Johnno in charge but nobody wants to be reminded of that. The forgotten years.

Quote from: moysider on June 28, 2008, 01:37:16 AM

Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on June 28, 2008, 01:01:17 AM

Quote from: moysider on June 27, 2008, 11:04:51 PM
As regards the early 90s Galway were worse than we were. They could nt even get to Croke Park to get a bad batin.

True. Although once we got there we usually knew how to come back with the big pot. ;D

That was the late nineties GalwaybBayBoy and I m well aware of that. Still have bad episodes about all that. Early 90 s were 1990- 1994 where we were better but F***** up big time. 3 times in Connacht alone with good players. 90 and 91 with Johnno in charge but nobody wants to be reminded of that. The forgotten years.

I'd hardly call it F*** big time. Ros had the stongest team in the province in 1990. In 1991 Roscommon were the better team in the second half against Mayo in Castlebar coming back from 4 down against a stiff breeze, even if it took a miraculous point from Derek Duggan to equalize in the end. Ros were by far the better team in the replay in Hyde. Ros squandered a great chance of an All-Ireland appearance in the semi, but Meath deserved the win in the end. I often thought that was one of their best ever comebacks even it it's the least talked about because Ros were all over them for 3/4 of the game and were still 5 up midway into the second half. Mayo it has to be said were very luck to win Connacht in 1989 and the goal from Jimmy Bourke after extra time in the replay as well as as trangressing the rules of play also transgressed the boundaries of physics, and must surely rank as the awkwardest goal ever scored in championship history. I don't think Johno can be blamed for not following the 89 All-Ireland appearance up with a Connacht final win. There wasn't much between the teams in those days. Mayo's 89 appearance was also part of the era when Connacht teams could only make an All-Ireland final when they met an Ulster team in the semi-final rotation - Galway 74, Armagh 77, Ros 80, Galway 83, Tyrone 86, Mayo 89, Donegal 92. Down of course had broken the trend in 91 in beating Kerry and then Meath in the final.

Typical a Rossie tryin to upset the status quo! ;) :P

Thankfully I was born in 1987 and don't remember much about the really bad days for Connacht in the early 90s.

just watched that clip from tv3 there. that bit of selective editting to put that w++ker hayes point across. >:(

Senior throw in 2.00.

Minor at 12.00.

It s a case of havin the dinner in the mornin and havin a clean run at the day.

QuoteYe your right there Galforever finnegan barely gets recognition for his contribution if memory serves me right he was excellent in the Ai final did he take the frees as well?

QuoteOf course, Finnegan scored that huge free in injury time in Tuam to draw the Connacht final against Ros. No good winning in Castlebar if you follow up with defeat to Ros.
Going back to that 95 team, the Connacht final in Tuam that year was one of the most one sided finals in memory. Mayo were woeful that that. Who was Mayo's manager that year? Jack O'Shea?
That match was preceeded with a great minor final that witnessed the emergence of Donnellan and Savage; although I don't recall PJ playing that day.

Yes, He took the frees. Hoe scored the equalier agaimst Ros in the drawn game in the last few seconds from a free. He also scored the equaliser in the replay taking the match to extra time. Think that might have been a 45, it was around that area anyways.

Also scored a 45 against Leitrim in 95 to win the connacht semi-final (First connacht championship match shown live If I remember correctly?)

In 1997, scored 9 points aginst Mayo in Tuam, playing at full forward. 5 frees, 4 from play.

In the 2nd half of the 98 final, he scored two brilliant points not long after Joyces goal as well. He was a class act.

QuoteI thought jack o was manager in 1993 when we lost the final to Leitrim

Was it not 94 ye lost the final to Letrim? I thought Mayo won connacht in 93 and got slaughtered by Cork?

QuoteThat's the one! that was one dreary day, Padgraig Brogan played his last game in the green and red (and lots of white for some reason) that day I think, we were absolutely shocking. The minor game was one of the best games I have ever seen though, we had Sean Roughneen from Swinford at midfield who was a great minor footballer and Karl O'Boyle at fullforward. For Galway the most impressuve player was a young Derek Reilly from Corofin, he was a class underage player, whatever happend to him?

I dont recall that day being dreary at all! It was a beautiful sunny connacht final day. Derek Reilly was given chances at league & FBD level but could never make it. He was a genuinely class underage player alright. Still, he won his club all-ireland medal in 98 so he's not empty handed.

Quote from: Galforever on June 30, 2008, 05:27:37 PM

QuoteYe your right there Galforever finnegan barely gets recognition for his contribution if memory serves me right he was excellent in the Ai final did he take the frees as well?

QuoteOf course, Finnegan scored that huge free in injury time in Tuam to draw the Connacht final against Ros. No good winning in Castlebar if you follow up with defeat to Ros.
Going back to that 95 team, the Connacht final in Tuam that year was one of the most one sided finals in memory. Mayo were woeful that that. Who was Mayo's manager that year? Jack O'Shea?
That match was preceeded with a great minor final that witnessed the emergence of Donnellan and Savage; although I don't recall PJ playing that day.

Yes, He took the frees. Hoe scored the equalier agaimst Ros in the drawn game in the last few seconds from a free. He also scored the equaliser in the replay taking the match to extra time. Think that might have been a 45, it was around that area anyways.

Also scored a 45 against Leitrim in 95 to win the connacht semi-final (First connacht championship match shown live If I remember correctly?)

In 1997, scored 9 points aginst Mayo in Tuam, playing at full forward. 5 frees, 4 from play.

In the 2nd half of the 98 final, he scored two brilliant points not long after Joyces goal as well. He was a class act.

QuoteI thought jack o was manager in 1993 when we lost the final to Leitrim

Was it not 94 ye lost the final to Letrim? I thought Mayo won connacht in 93 and got slaughtered by Cork?

QuoteThat's the one! that was one dreary day, Padgraig Brogan played his last game in the green and red (and lots of white for some reason) that day I think, we were absolutely shocking. The minor game was one of the best games I have ever seen though, we had Sean Roughneen from Swinford at midfield who was a great minor footballer and Karl O'Boyle at fullforward. For Galway the most impressuve player was a young Derek Reilly from Corofin, he was a class underage player, whatever happend to him?

I dont recall that day being dreary at all! It was a beautiful sunny connacht final day. Derek Reilly was given chances at league & FBD level but could never make it. He was a genuinely class underage player alright. Still, he won his club all-ireland medal in 98 so he's not empty handed.

Oh the weather was fine alright, not really what I was on about but I think you knew that! ;D

farrandeeln - herring chokers/Heron chokers

herrning chokers refers to lazy comamara bastards who spend all their time drinking poteen and never do a rap of work on the farm sowing or planting  but when they are hungry go down to the beach hoping showls of herring or mackeral would have washed up on the shore to give them a free dinneralong with a load of 'edible sea weeds' like carrigeen and dilisk(as well as nettles and grass)  to feed their families and let them get back to drinking and making poteen and keeping ireland long tradition of bullshit alive..
not as common as it used to be as many cunnies now receive the dole.

also called heron chokers as many people suspect they ate dead birds they found on the road and when asked how did they kill it without a gun they said they Choked it

Quote from: rosnarun on June 30, 2008, 11:01:40 PM
farrandeeln - herring chokers/Heron chokers

herrning chokers refers to lazy comamara b**tards who spend all their time drinking poteen and never do a rap of work on the farm sowing or planting  but when they are hungry go down to the beach hoping showls of herring or mackeral would have washed up on the shore to give them a free dinneralong with a load of 'edible sea weeds' like carrigeen and dilisk(as well as nettles and grass)  to feed their families and let them get back to drinking and making poteen and keeping ireland long tradition of bullshit alive..
not as common as it used to be as many cunnies now receive the dole.

also called heron chokers as many people suspect they ate dead birds they found on the road and when asked how did they kill it without a gun they said they Choked it

Brilliant. :) :D ;D As good explanation or explanations  as any I ve ever heard. But how is it spelled? Herrin or heron? There s two stories here and  both may well have merits. But surely you dont choke herring. Usually they re just thrown in a box and gasp for a good while. They dont even get the ceremony of a priest like the noble salmon and the respected trout. Mind you I once saw a man - who was not a Connie to my knowledge - dispatch mackerel by bending their heads to one side and breaking their unfortunate necks. Does that procedure come under the auspices of choking?  And how would anybody contemplate eating a heron anyway? Even if you were raving from the best poteen and your family were grazing? There s more flesh under a t**ker woman s nails after a row than on a bog crane. And would nt they be known as bogcrane in Connieland anyway? The term Heron is usually used by only the finest pub ornithologists.  We need all this clarified?. Iolar please! I think you ll find you mentioned the term here first this year. I notice you spell it heron? So you ll be going along with the bird version? Are you fish or fowl [or at least a bird man ] on this one?

Quote from: moysider on June 27, 2008, 11:04:51 PM
Not sure Galway have the better potential going forward. Galway have a few marquee forwards but often they dont do the business. Mayo probably have the advantage at midfield and we have the best goalkeeper. Our backs are a work in progress and while Galways are more settled they have their weaknesses too. Overall I believe Mayo have more pace about them and should be trying to play the game as high a tempo as possible. Galway will like it more structured and deliberate.

As regards the early 90s Galway were worse than we were. They could nt even get to Croke Park to get a bad batin.

Anyway thats in the past. Anybody else sense that this championship as a whole is being blown apart. Unexpected defeats of likes of Tyrone and Derry. Real if unexpected form from likes of Fermanagh and Wexford. Kerry might run into trouble too with D O Sé injured as is Darren O Sullivan, then there s Galvin. Only thing is they have weeks, nay months. to recover/ appeal. Likes of Mayo/Galway should not be thinking of rebuilding nonsense for future years  but concentrating on this year because this year might yet be as good an opportunity as any.

I'd agree here Moysider. I think there is very little between Galway and ourselves both teams could do a bit if they get going. And I've been saying all year that Kerry apart it's a very open Championship. You have a lot of teams around the level of Mayo and Galway (Dublin, Cork, Tyrone, Down, Donegal, Derry, Meath) none of who are brilliant but all of who are capable of something special on a good day. I'd say we're as good as any of them and well capable of beating all of them.

Quote from: Galforever on June 30, 2008, 05:27:37 PM

QuoteYe your right there Galforever finnegan barely gets recognition for his contribution if memory serves me right he was excellent in the Ai final did he take the frees as well?

QuoteOf course, Finnegan scored that huge free in injury time in Tuam to draw the Connacht final against Ros. No good winning in Castlebar if you follow up with defeat to Ros.
Going back to that 95 team, the Connacht final in Tuam that year was one of the most one sided finals in memory. Mayo were woeful that that. Who was Mayo's manager that year? Jack O'Shea?
That match was preceeded with a great minor final that witnessed the emergence of Donnellan and Savage; although I don't recall PJ playing that day.

Yes, He took the frees. Hoe scored the equalier agaimst Ros in the drawn game in the last few seconds from a free. He also scored the equaliser in the replay taking the match to extra time. Think that might have been a 45, it was around that area anyways.

Also scored a 45 against Leitrim in 95 to win the connacht semi-final (First connacht championship match shown live If I remember correctly?)

In 1997, scored 9 points aginst Mayo in Tuam, playing at full forward. 5 frees, 4 from play.

In the 2nd half of the 98 final, he scored two brilliant points not long after Joyces goal as well. He was a class act.

QuoteI thought jack o was manager in 1993 when we lost the final to Leitrim

Was it not 94 ye lost the final to Letrim? I thought Mayo won connacht in 93 and got slaughtered by Cork?

QuoteThat's the one! that was one dreary day, Padgraig Brogan played his last game in the green and red (and lots of white for some reason) that day I think, we were absolutely shocking. The minor game was one of the best games I have ever seen though, we had Sean Roughneen from Swinford at midfield who was a great minor footballer and Karl O'Boyle at fullforward. For Galway the most impressuve player was a young Derek Reilly from Corofin, he was a class underage player, whatever happend to him?

I dont recall that day being dreary at all! It was a beautiful sunny connacht final day. Derek Reilly was given chances at league & FBD level but could never make it. He was a genuinely class underage player alright. Still, he won his club all-ireland medal in 98 so he's not empty handed.

Did he not kick a serious point from the endline against Sligo that day ye hammered them in 00 (I think)? It was the day they didn't get a point for the whole of the first half anyway.

To the best of my knowledge, "heron choker" is a corruption of "herring choker." Galway diction is notoriously poor, as we all know, and the misunderstanding is easy to understand. Herring choker, then, comes from Galway's strong fishing tradition, especially around the Claddagh area of the city itself, I believe. As Moysider rightly points out, herons don't make for good snacking, whereas a plate of herring is a treat for any sensible man, woman or child.

Why one would choke them instead of battering them on the noggin with a stout stick probably has more to do with poetic license than anything. Heron choker is pleasingly derogatory without being downright insulting, whereas heron batterers would imbue na Gaillimhí with a worrying air of menace that would add to their other threats rather than lessen them. My two cents, anyway.  :D

Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on July 01, 2008, 02:04:41 PM
To the best of my knowledge, "heron choker" is a corruption of "herring choker." Galway diction is notoriously poor, as we all know, and the misunderstanding is easy to understand. Herring choker, then, comes from Galway's strong fishing tradition, especially around the Claddagh area of the city itself, I believe. As Moysider rightly points out, herons don't make for good snacking, whereas a plate of herring is a treat for any sensible man, woman or child.

Why one would choke them instead of battering them on the noggin with a stout stick probably has more to do with poetic license than anything. Heron choker is pleasingly derogatory without being downright insulting, whereas heron batterers would imbue na Gaillimhí with a worrying air of menace that would add to their other threats rather than lessen them. My two cents, anyway.  :D

My understanding is that it's from the Claddagh area alright. Like many Galway people I've been called plenty worse but the only response to a Mayoman exclaiming "That's the stuff for the heron chokers" (as a loud Mayoman in my vicinity delighted in saying during closing stages of the league semi final of last year when it was obvious Mayo had won the day) is "better to be a heron choker than an all ireland choker", it put a fair stop to his gallop that day.

Quoteis "better to be a heron choker than an all ireland choker", it put a fair stop to his gallop that day.

Did not think ye Galwaymen could be that cruel :D

They're pure savage Tatler I'm afraid.

We were talking earlier about the 1998 game. I remember being greeted by a chorus of "stand up if you hate Mayo" - they love disco in Galway, you know - while we were making our way to our seats.

"I wonder if their mothers know they chant that?" I asked my company.

"It was from their mothers they learned it," the company sagely replied.

With regard to An Fhairce's point, the interesting thing about county nicknames is that they're invariably more affectionate than aggressive. They belong to the Mick Dunne/Brian Carthy school, if you get me - "And the model county go in two points down to the lilywhites at half-time here in Newbridge," sort of thing. The Rosserini, for instance, take no small pride in being named the Sheepstealers, as their infamous messageboard, much mourned, gave testament.

 

QuoteRosserini, for instance, take no small pride in being named the Sheepstealers, as their infamous messageboard, much mourned, gave testament

Yes sheepstealers.com was legendary - some great stuff on it. We have a good replacement though - stolensheep.tk
The odd visitor  from west of us drops in from time to time - Mickey51 being the most regular (and annoying  ;)

And dont forget there will be a good scatter of us sheepmen and women going to Castlebar for the Minor Final.
We'll fill the sates left empty be the stay at home HCs  ;)

Galway manager Liam Sammon has received some mixed news regarding injuries ahead of Sunday week's Connacht SFC final against Mayo.

While long-serving wing back Declan Meehan has emerged as a major doubt for the McHale Park showdown, injury-stricken midfielder Joe Bergin is well ahead of schedule in his recovery from a ruptured Achilles tendon sustained two months ago, and is set to return to action within the next month.

The Connacht final will come too soon for the big Mountbellew man, but he has resumed light training and if Galway are still involved in the championship in August, he could yet play a vital role.

Former Player of the Year Meehan is facing a race against time to be fit for the Mayo game after he pulled a hamstring last weekend. Kieran Fitzgerald, who missed the Leitrim game through injury, is expected to return while Niall Coyne and Diarmuid Blake are also fit again after recovering from injury

I wonder will there be many empty seats in Pairc Mhic Eil on Sunday week? Doesn't seem to be as much excitement about a Connacht final as there would have been in recent years for what I'm hearing. And that's probably the case for both counties.

I suppose in other years both counties would have had ambitions of making serious inroads towards an All-Ireland final. This year a Connacht title would appear to be the height of both counties ambitions. Can we conclude therefore that the fans of both counties aren't really too pushed about a provincial title judging by the lack of hype ahead of Sunday week?

If there was serious prospects of one or other of them making a real dent in the championship I think it would be a different story.

Certainly I would have taken a Connacht title at the start of the year because I didn't and don't see a whole lot more in offer but I'm finding it hard to get excited about the game. Hopefully that'll change

dont worry about it sniper. it a sign of aging or else clinical depression.  we have become a self protecting lot in mayo over the lastr decade or so and want to see true sign of greatness but for we even pretend wer'e pushed. The wide eyed innocence  of '96 is well gone. mainly due to those kerry bastards.
But bating galway is still bating galway even if we were the worst 2 teams in the country and in a cold analsys   I cant see Galway being within 10 points of us in castlebar.

Quote from: rosnarun on July 04, 2008, 10:10:17 AM
dont worry about it sniper. it a sign of aging or else clinical depression.  we have become a self protecting lot in mayo over the lastr decade or so and want to see true sign of greatness but for we even pretend wer'e pushed. The wide eyed innocence  of '96 is well gone. mainly due to those kerry b**tards.
But bating galway is still bating galway even if we were the worst 2 teams in the country and in a cold analsys   I cant see Galway being within 10 points of us in castlebar.

Your probably correct there in your analysis Ros.  We have no midfield, the backs are playing shite and only PJ up front doing the business these days.  Ye will stroll this one, no doubt  ;)

Do ye think Galway will bate Mayo?

not if we have billy joe ;)

ah jaysus, thanks deel









balin balin hay hay......

Mayo/ Galway clashes were always big news even in the days when either team had little prospect of doing anything. There is little chance of the AI winner coming from the pair this year but its as good a chance as coming from anywhere else outside Kerry. When you consider that Mayo have nt won in well over half a century there must have been something else drawing crowds to matches apart from a forlorn hope of winning the big pot.
Galway dont get too excited in recent years anyway. The back door means the clash has nt that air of finality it used to have with the winning supporters euphoric and the defeated desolate. A lot of  expectation in Mayo has been deliberately dampened as well. Whether its a good thing or not we ll soon know. The Kerry hammerings have had an effect of course. This team does nt have as many crowd pleasers either as we would have been used to. Add in the absence of a figure like Willie THE SHOE who would have everything buzzing for weeks and it does nt feel like the old days at all.

A

QuoteRapidly Aging

PJ up front .
unless there is major changes on the galway team most of their best player will be on the bench as in the game against leitrim. I worry for them

Quote from: rosnarun on July 04, 2008, 02:53:40 PM
A

QuoteRapidly Aging

PJ up front .
unless there is major changes on the galway team most of their best player will be on the bench as in the game against leitrim. I worry for them

Don't worry for us rosnarun. With your history with predictions I'll be sleeping a little bit easier tonight. ;D

Quote from: rosnarun on July 04, 2008, 02:53:40 PM
A

QuoteRapidly Aging

PJ up front .
unless there is major changes on the galway team most of their best player will be on the bench as in the game against leitrim. I worry for them

Fair play to ya man, it'll be nice to see how this thread works out with a few nice digs being thrown here and there.
I'm of the opinion that Mayo will win this simply due to their midfield superiority but as GBB has said it's heartening to see you write us off given your levels of soothsaying for the Galway-Mayo match last year!

Quote from: An Fhairche Abu on July 04, 2008, 06:02:38 PM

Quote from: rosnarun on July 04, 2008, 02:53:40 PM
A

QuoteRapidly Aging

PJ up front .
unless there is major changes on the galway team most of their best player will be on the bench as in the game against leitrim. I worry for them

Fair play to ya man, it'll be nice to see how this thread works out with a few nice digs being thrown here and there.
I'm of the opinion that Mayo will win this simply due to their midfield superiority but as GBB has said it's heartening to see you write us off given your levels of soothsaying for the Galway-Mayo match last year!

Ah yea, but last year was last year after all. Galway will not be 10 points worse off than Mayo but I have a slight sneaking feeling that we can pull this one off!!!

Quote from: Farrandeelin on June 24, 2008, 09:25:33 PM
My early feeling, even coming out of the Sligo match is that Galway will do enough to win this one.

You've changed your tune. ;D

And no doubt will again over the coming week!!  :-\

Apparently we beat a strong Fermanagh side on Tuesday night in Longford. Dillon was back. Anybody know more?

Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on July 04, 2008, 07:46:20 AM
I wonder will there be many empty seats in Pairc Mhic Eil on Sunday week? Doesn't seem to be as much excitement about a Connacht final as there would have been in recent years for what I'm hearing. And that's probably the case for both counties.

I suppose in other years both counties would have had ambitions of making serious inroads towards an All-Ireland final. This year a Connacht title would appear to be the height of both counties ambitions. Can we conclude therefore that the fans of both counties aren't really too pushed about a provincial title judging by the lack of hype ahead of Sunday week?

If there was serious prospects of one or other of them making a real dent in the championship I think it would be a different story.

Certainly I would have taken a Connacht title at the start of the year because I didn't and don't see a whole lot more in offer but I'm finding it hard to get excited about the game. Hopefully that'll change

I was going to say that being a Galway fan from London that I will save my money for the hurlers this summer. Mayo fans only have one team to follow. If McHale Park is half full next week I can understand. Following two teams can be very expensive - especially given the prices the Connacht council charge.
Win or lose, there's another day for both of us. The hurlers have no second chance now.
I'm still paying back the interest on 2001. Oh happy days.

Quote from: An Fhairche Abu on July 04, 2008, 06:02:38 PM

Quote from: rosnarun on July 04, 2008, 02:53:40 PM
A

QuoteRapidly Aging

PJ up front .
unless there is major changes on the galway team most of their best player will be on the bench as in the game against leitrim. I worry for them

Fair play to ya man, it'll be nice to see how this thread works out with a few nice digs being thrown here and there.
I'm of the opinion that Mayo will win this simply due to their midfield superiority but as GBB has said it's heartening to see you write us off given your levels of soothsaying for the Galway-Mayo match last year!

yes but the problem is ill be much too sensitive to say ' i told you so'  on the Monday. it would be beneath me so i like to get all my digs in early

Right lads, just back from the holidays, renewed and ready to go next Sunday.

With Kerry being beaten the Connacht/Munster half of the draw has opened up with the possibility that the Kingdom could end up on the other side with the Dubs. That being the case there is a huge amount to play for next Sunday. The winners may have a realistic chance of getting to September without being any great shakes.

I think Dillon will come in for Gardiner and that will be the only change.

When was the last time Mayo and Galway drew - suprising that there hasn't been one for a long time considering many of the games are so close. There is one due in the championship and I feel it will be next Sunday. When is the replay on?

Quote from: Barney on July 07, 2008, 08:17:57 AM
Right lads, just back from the holidays, renewed and ready to go next Sunday.

With Kerry being beaten the Connacht/Munster half of the draw has opened up with the possibility that the Kingdom could end up on the other side with the Dubs. That being the case there is a huge amount to play for next Sunday. The winners may have a realistic chance of getting to September without being any great shakes.

I think Dillon will come in for Gardiner and that will be the only change.

When was the last time Mayo and Galway drew - suprising that there hasn't been one for a long time considering many of the games are so close. There is one due in the championship and I feel it will be next Sunday. When is the replay on?

It's on Saturday week in Hyde park at 2PM. Tickets are available as of today. Lads don't bother turning up in Castlebar on Sunday at all  :P

QuoteThe winners may have a realistic chance of getting to September without being any great shakes.

Not neccessarily a good thing.

QuoteWhen was the last time Mayo and Galway drew - suprising that there hasn't been one for a long time considering many of the games are so close. There is one due in the championship and I feel it will be next Sunday. When is the replay on?

I think it was 1991, They drew in Tuam & Mayo won the replay well in Castlebar. Good match in Tuam though

Quote from: Galforever on July 07, 2008, 10:07:51 AM

QuoteThe winners may have a realistic chance of getting to September without being any great shakes.

Not neccessarily a good thing.

QuoteWhen was the last time Mayo and Galway drew - suprising that there hasn't been one for a long time considering many of the games are so close. There is one due in the championship and I feel it will be next Sunday. When is the replay on?

I think it was 1991, They drew in Tuam & Mayo won the replay well in Castlebar. Good match in Tuam though

Think you right Gal.  Gay McManus punched the ball to the net in the dying minutes as far as I can remember.  Got hammered in the replay though in Castlebar  :-\

QuoteThink you right Gal.  Gay McManus punched the ball to the net in the dying minutes as far as I can remember.  Got hammered in the replay though in Castlebar 

Was Gay McManus still playing in 91???? I dont remeber the team from that year to be honest, just remeber that the drawn match was a sunny day in Tuam & that it was an exciting affair. The replay was a very dreary day in Castlebar

Quote from: Galforever on July 07, 2008, 10:07:51 AM

QuoteThe winners may have a realistic chance of getting to September without being any great shakes.

Not neccessarily a good thing.


I'd agree with that, but as long as the other team weren't Kerry I think both Mayo and Galway would have a decent chance if they made it to September, the chasing pack are very close in potential as far as I'm concerned.
I see the Galway lads have very little faith in your midfield and you're predicting a Mayo win based on that. I think there is a bit of kidology at play here because I can't remember the last time we wiped ye out at midfield.
On paper we look to have the strongest pairing but Coleman always plays well against us and with the likes of Matthew Clancy there to win breaking ball I am not expecting us to completely dominate that area. I think we'll shade it but Galway won't be wiped out there. Our forwards will probably need more ball then the Galway forwards so it is vital we do win midfield,  my main worry would be that we won't dominate that sector by enough.

Think the years are mixed up there. I'm nearly sure it was '89 that Gay McManus equalised with the fisted goal. Mayo won the replay in Castlebar easily and went onto the All-Ireland final.
I think the last draw was '92 in Tuam on a wet day. Liam McHale scored a bullet of a goal into the top corner for Mayo. Fergal O'Neill got a goal for Galway and Ja Fallon equalised in injury time. Mayo went on and won that replay as well. Got to All-Ireland semi which they lost in a terrible game to Donegal

Quote from: Tubberman on July 07, 2008, 10:42:51 AM
Think the years are mixed up there. I'm nearly sure it was '89 that Gay McManus equalised with the fisted goal. Mayo won the replay in Castlebar easily and went onto the All-Ireland final.
I think the last draw was '92 in Tuam on a wet day. Liam McHale scored a bullet of a goal into the top corner for Mayo. Fergal O'Neill got a goal for Galway and Ja Fallon equalised in injury time. Mayo went on and won that replay as well. Got to All-Ireland semi which they lost in a terrible game to Donegal

You could be right with 89 Tubberman.  We were so poor back then that the my bad memories have all merged at this stage!   
The 92 semi was shocking in fairness.  Ye had a Galwayman playing CHB and he got the run-around from Martin McHugh.  Hard to believe that the same Donegal team turned over the Dubs in that years final.  Jaysus, connacht football was in a dark place in those days...............................

Quote from: Barney on July 07, 2008, 08:17:57 AM
Right lads, just back from the holidays, renewed and ready to go next Sunday.

With Kerry being beaten the Connacht/Munster half of the draw has opened up with the possibility that the Kingdom could end up on the other side with the Dubs. That being the case there is a huge amount to play for next Sunday. The winners may have a realistic chance of getting to September without being any great shakes.

I think Dillon will come in for Gardiner and that will be the only change.

When was the last time Mayo and Galway drew - suprising that there hasn't been one for a long time considering many of the games are so close. There is one due in the championship and I feel it will be next Sunday. When is the replay on?

Agree with you here. One change is all I expect. While Andy Moran didn't set the world alight against Sligo he has no ready replacement and enjoyed a good league which Peader didn't. No point in messin with the backs until Howley returns what we have now is as good as anything else we could put out.

It could be a draw but I won't be letting P. Power hold onto my money about that one. I've a sneaky feeling we'll pull this one out

if Mayo win on sunday who will they play then, if they lose what happens?

The winners on Sunday go into the AI quarter final.  They will play one of the winners of Round 3 of the qualifiers (open draw).
The losers on Sunday will go into Round 3 of the qualifiers, where if they win there, they would play a provincial champion (open draw).

It is possible that there could be another Mayo v. Galway game this year  ;D

Who is in the minor final?

Mayo v Ros

The Kerry result is a great fillip for both teams I think.
Neither team would be able for Kerry in an All-Ireland semi-final (the outcome if Connacht champs and Kerry as Munster champs won their quarter-finals).
However now that Kerry have lost they could end up having to beat Derry, Dublin and Tyrone before they even got to a final, if the draws went against them.
I've said it before, it'll be a fierce open championship if Kerry fall and while neither Mayo and Galway would be favourites by any manner of means, they might give September a sly eye if their form picks up.
We might have more at stake on Sunday than we thought this time last week . . .

Also is Howley in the shake-up to start? And while Dillon seems set to come in for Gardiner, will it be him or Harte on the 40? Harte appeared to be excellent there against Sligo while Dillon has been primed for chf all year. Tough call there in fairness to O'Mahony

Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on July 07, 2008, 12:18:19 PM
The Kerry result is a great fillip for both teams I think.
Neither team would be able for Kerry in an All-Ireland semi-final (the outcome if Connacht champs and Kerry as Munster champs won their quarter-finals).
However now that Kerry have lost they could end up having to beat Derry, Dublin and Tyrone before they even got to a final, if the draws went against them.I've said it before, it'll be a fierce open championship if Kerry fall and while neither Mayo and Galway would be favourites by any manner of means, they might give September a sly eye if their form picks up.
We might have more at stake on Sunday than we thought this time last week . . .

Also is Howley in the shake-up to start? And while Dillon seems set to come in for Gardiner, will it be him or Harte on the 40? Harte appeared to be excellent there against Sligo while Dillon has been primed for chf all year. Tough call there in fairness to O'Mahony

Not quite true.  Kerry (as provincal runners up) will only have to play 1 (one) qualifer game (in round 3) to get to the quarter final.

QuoteThe Kerry result is a great fillip for both teams I think.
Neither team would be able for Kerry in an All-Ireland semi-final (the outcome if Connacht champs and Kerry as Munster champs won their quarter-finals).
However now that Kerry have lost they could end up having to beat Derry, Dublin and Tyrone before they even got to a final, if the draws went against them.
I've said it before, it'll be a fierce open championship if Kerry fall and while neither Mayo and Galway would be favourites by any manner of means, they might give September a sly eye if their form picks up.
We might have more at stake on Sunday than we thought this time last week . . .

This is crazy talk! Kerry being out makes no difference. If ya are going to win an all ireland, you need to beat them at some stage, whats the point of beating a load of average teams on one side of the draw if you are just going to come unstuck in the final. Mayo people --- Do you not remember 2004 & 2006? Now ye want a repeat???

If anything, now is the time to play Kerry while both Marc O'Sé & Paul Galvin are out and they are having doubts about their ability.

Very true, galever.

Quote from: Galforever on July 07, 2008, 12:32:56 PM

QuoteThe Kerry result is a great fillip for both teams I think.
Neither team would be able for Kerry in an All-Ireland semi-final (the outcome if Connacht champs and Kerry as Munster champs won their quarter-finals).
However now that Kerry have lost they could end up having to beat Derry, Dublin and Tyrone before they even got to a final, if the draws went against them.
I've said it before, it'll be a fierce open championship if Kerry fall and while neither Mayo and Galway would be favourites by any manner of means, they might give September a sly eye if their form picks up.
We might have more at stake on Sunday than we thought this time last week . . .

This is crazy talk! Kerry being out makes no difference. If ya are going to win an all ireland, you need to beat them at some stage, whats the point of beating a load of average teams on one side of the draw if you are just going to come unstuck in the final. Mayo people --- Do you not remember 2004 & 2006? Now ye want a repeat???

If anything, now is the time to play Kerry while both Marc O'Sé & Paul Galvin are out and they are having doubts about their ability.

You misunderstand me. Of course I remember 04 and 06, how could I not? That makes me certain of one thing - Mayo WILL not win the All-Ireland if they have to beat Kerry, in my opinion. Their defeat the last day opens the possibility of them being put on the other side of the draw and therefore a small bit more likely that they may lose. I think Tyrone, Dublin and maybe Derry are the only teams capable of beating them. But that's not to say that any of those three would be then shoo-ins for the All-Ireland.
Being honest I would be surprised if Mayo won the All-Ireland this year (or Galway for that matter). But they have a better chance if someone else can trip up Kerry. I hope that makes sense

Quote from: western exile on July 07, 2008, 12:30:51 PM

Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on July 07, 2008, 12:18:19 PM
The Kerry result is a great fillip for both teams I think.
Neither team would be able for Kerry in an All-Ireland semi-final (the outcome if Connacht champs and Kerry as Munster champs won their quarter-finals).
However now that Kerry have lost they could end up having to beat Derry, Dublin and Tyrone before they even got to a final, if the draws went against them.I've said it before, it'll be a fierce open championship if Kerry fall and while neither Mayo and Galway would be favourites by any manner of means, they might give September a sly eye if their form picks up.
We might have more at stake on Sunday than we thought this time last week . . .

Also is Howley in the shake-up to start? And while Dillon seems set to come in for Gardiner, will it be him or Harte on the 40? Harte appeared to be excellent there against Sligo while Dillon has been primed for chf all year. Tough call there in fairness to O'Mahony

Not quite true.  Kerry (as provincal runners up) will only have to play 1 (one) qualifer game (in round 3) to get to the quarter final.

Maybe I'm wrong but is it not possible that Kerry can draw, lets say Derry, in the final qualifier round, then draw a provincial champion (Dublin) in the quarter-finals and then Tyrone (if they emerge that far) in a semi-final?

I hear what you're saying R&G but I would have to agree with Galforever that we would be better off meeting Kerry earlier. Ideally we wouldn't have to meet them at all but if we were to beat them it would be more likely in a QF or SF. Our bad run has to end against them sometime (but probably not in a final!).
I think Kerry will recover from this loss and there is another kick in them yet, I feel our only chance of beating them if we meet is with the Connacht title in our pocket given our record so far in the qualifiers. That gives us a massive incentive next Sunday.

QuoteMaybe I'm wrong but is it not possible that Kerry can draw, lets say Derry, in the final qualifier round, then draw a provincial champion (Dublin) in the quarter-finals and then Tyrone (if they emerge that far) in a semi-final?

Thats what I thought as well..

QuoteYou misunderstand me. Of course I remember 04 and 06, how could I not? That makes me certain of one thing - Mayo WILL not win the All-Ireland if they have to beat Kerry, in my opinion. Their defeat the last day opens the possibility of them being put on the other side of the draw and therefore a small bit more likely that they may lose. I think Tyrone, Dublin and maybe Derry are the only teams capable of beating them. But that's not to say that any of those three would be then shoo-ins for the All-Ireland.
Being honest I would be surprised if Mayo won the All-Ireland this year (or Galway for that matter). But they have a better chance if someone else can trip up Kerry. I hope that makes sense

??? ??? ???

Whats the point of winning an all-ireland if you dont beat the best teams on the way to doing so. That is the purpose of winning it, not getting a handy run along the way!

Quote from: Galforever on July 07, 2008, 02:02:50 PM

QuoteMaybe I'm wrong but is it not possible that Kerry can draw, lets say Derry, in the final qualifier round, then draw a provincial champion (Dublin) in the quarter-finals and then Tyrone (if they emerge that far) in a semi-final?

Thats what I thought as well..

QuoteYou misunderstand me. Of course I remember 04 and 06, how could I not? That makes me certain of one thing - Mayo WILL not win the All-Ireland if they have to beat Kerry, in my opinion. Their defeat the last day opens the possibility of them being put on the other side of the draw and therefore a small bit more likely that they may lose. I think Tyrone, Dublin and maybe Derry are the only teams capable of beating them. But that's not to say that any of those three would be then shoo-ins for the All-Ireland.
Being honest I would be surprised if Mayo won the All-Ireland this year (or Galway for that matter). But they have a better chance if someone else can trip up Kerry. I hope that makes sense

??? ??? ???

Whats the point of winning an all-ireland if you dont beat the best teams on the way to doing so. That is the purpose of winning it, not getting a handy run along the way!

did it take away from your 1998 win?

Quotedid it take away from your 1998 win?

There is a difference between wanting to avoid a certain team & beating whats in front of you.

In 98, I think many Galway people would have preferred to have played Kerry in the final, but Kildare beat them because they were better.

I know many of the Galway players of that era regret not beating Kerry (drawing & losing in 2000 and losing in 2002).

Quote from: Galforever on July 07, 2008, 02:14:35 PM

Quotedid it take away from your 1998 win?

There is a difference between wanting to avoid a certain team & beating whats in front of you.

In 98, I think many Galway people would have preferred to have played Kerry in the final, but Kildare beat them because they were better.

I know many of the Galway players of that era regret not beating Kerry (drawing & losing in 2000 and losing in 2002).

I would agree and didn't mean it as a pop at that win, it is just a bit sweeter if you beat a traditionally big name, but if we were to win it without beating Kerry I would get over it quite easily! I think it is a bit defeatist to want to avoid a team anyway, I would just prefer to meet Kerry earlier than the final as they have a serious hex over us at the moment.

A couple of weeks ago I mentioned on here that this championship was not going to script and yesterday s events have blown it apart. Not just that Kerry lost but it was the manner in which they lost. They collapsed in a manner only a finished team does. But being Kerry they cant be written off but if that happened to any other team they would be considered finished. This will be a huge test for Pat O Shea because he has problems now in virtually every line of the team. Full-back, Midfield, Half-forward line, Full-forward line. I have my doubts whether O Shea is strong enough for the job. Galvin s blow-out was not a good sign for management. Could nt imagine that happening under an O Dwyer or O Connor.
Now he has to reconstruct the team and bed in likes if Tommy Walsh in @ a month. There were too many big slow men on the field yesterday and without Galvin and Declan O Sullivan two of their best players are gone. Ball winners, carriers, brilliant passers and both scored more than their fair share.
Scanlon too slow to play with Dara and Dara himself looks injured or gone. Brian Sheehan is no championship corner forward. Without good ball going in Gooch and Donaghy cant do the business. Kerry s goal yesterday would have been prevented if Kavanagh tackled anyway adequately.
Now Kerry might have been caught out by their peaking for September routine and Dara might be flying in a month but it looked more chronic than that. They also have the ingredients to rectify matters or at least improve things. Sheehan could be moved out. Tommy Griffin on a big man at full back. Tommy Walsh to midfield, If they had Galvin and Declan O Sullivan coming back you would nt fear for them but they have to be considered badly damaged now. Several teams will now fancy their chances of being around in September.

Do not agree with that at all moysider. A team as good as Kerry does not suddenly become as bad as you are making them out to be. Kerry always had a weakness at full back since Mike McCarthy retired & they have tried numerous players alongside Darragh O'Sé in the past few years.

One interesting thing about yesterday was that both teams kicked high ball into theire full forward line. If Galway meet any of them, this tactic could play into Galways hands as its the type of game that Hanley would enjoy more than marking a Declan Maxwell.

I m not making them out to be bad but they were nt good yesterday and I m not sure it can be just put down to a bad day at the office. They appear to have real problems. Some of the players that made them so good are either retired - Moynihan, McCarty - injured - Declan O Sullivan - suspended - Galvin,  or off the boil -Dara O Shea.

I agree with Moysider here.

Kerry for the last 3 or 4 years have been winning midfield by using D O'Sé to win primary ball and his partner + Galvin to win breaking ball. With Galvin gone and O'Sé losing form (although over the last few years he has peaked for Croker in the Autumn) this means midfield is in trouble. Once you lose in midfield all of your other problems are much more exposed. In Kerry's case this means their FB.
I've stated in the Cork v Kerry thread that all the teams which have won through the back door have made at least one radical change to their side since losing in the province and appearing in Croker. The qualifiers help them fine tune it usually with a handy draw to start them off. In 01 Galway put Mannion in centre back and got Wicklow away, in 05 Tyrone put Cormac McAnallen in FB after they got destroyed their by Down in the Ulster final and in 06 Kerry moved Donaghy away from being a hindrance in midfield to a phenomenon in FF and they also managed to get Longford in Fitz stadium in the qualifiers.

Added to this they had some of the top 5 managers of modern times (O'Mahoney, Harte and O'Connor). I don't think Kerry have a readymade solution for either midfield or FB and I don't think O'Shea is in the same league as the above mentioned fellas.

Now I'm not saying that Kerry won't be dangerous or are out of the reckoning especially when you take into account the relatively average opposition but I don't think this is the same as 06. If D O Sé regains form and if O'Sullivan is not exposed again (and there aren't that many Cussen/Donaghy types around) then they could come again. However I think they may well struggle around midfield. If they struggle around midfield then Donaghy and Gooch are much quieter than any sort of man marking will ever make them

Quote from: kevmy on July 07, 2008, 05:27:19 PM
I've stated in the Cork v Kerry thread that all the teams which have won through the back door have made at least one radical change to their side since losing in the province and appearing in Croker. The qualifiers help them fine tune it usually with a handy draw to start them off. In 01 Galway put Mannion in centre back and got Wicklow away, in 05 Tyrone put Cormac McAnallen in FB after they got destroyed their by Down in the Ulster final and in 06 Kerry moved Donaghy away from being a hindrance in midfield to a phenomenon in FF and they also managed to get Longford in Fitz stadium in the qualifiers.

You're mixing 05 up with 03, if the Tyronies see that they'll have u for breakfast  :P

Quote from: Galforever on July 07, 2008, 03:45:12 PM
Do not agree with that at all moysider. A team as good as Kerry does not suddenly become as bad as you are making them out to be. Kerry always had a weakness at full back since Mike McCarthy retired & they have tried numerous players alongside Darragh O'Sé in the past few years.

One interesting thing about yesterday was that both teams kicked high ball into theire full forward line. If Galway meet any of them, this tactic could play into Galways hands as its the type of game that Hanley would enjoy more than marking a Declan Maxwell.

Maybe Kerry don't become a bad team overnight, but Derry beat them in the league final and now Cork beat them in yesterday's Munster final and both had to come back from big deficits. So I would half agree with moysider on this one. However, they will certainly be out to atone for it and if they get a fullback they might.

anyone buy tickets from ticketmaster . did ye get them.  i ordered mine last week still no sign

I suppose there ll be no Mayo teams named before Thursday night earliest. There did nt seem to be - and I looked - any official release of the minor team last week until day of  throw - in. But I might have missed something. Is it just me or is this disappointing. I m sure most of us would nail the selections pretty much anyway but delayed selections are dampening down interest and debate among the fans coming up to a game. When Johnno was in Galway I think he used to name his teams early in the week so players would not be fretting about whether they were starting or not. That thinking seems to have changed. Then they wonder about falling attendances. Public interest is not being stimulated at all. There is no Buzz. Most debate in Mayo has been about somebody who is not playing rather than those that are.

Quote from: moysider on July 07, 2008, 11:59:29 PM

I suppose there ll be no Mayo teams named before Thursday night earliest. There did nt seem to be - and I looked - any official release of the minor team last week until day of  throw - in. But I might have missed something. Is it just me or is this disappointing. I m sure most of us would nail the selections pretty much anyway but delayed selections are dampening down interest and debate among the fans coming up to a game. When Johnno was in Galway I think he used to name his teams early in the week so players would not be fretting about whether they were starting or not. That thinking seems to have changed. Then they wonder about falling attendances. Public interest is not being stimulated at all. There is no Buzz. Most debate in Mayo has been about somebody who is not playing rather than those that are.

100% spot on MS

There should be regulations set in stone regarding the picking of teams. I don't think leaving your selection til late brings much advantage as the opposition will have a good idea anyway. The priority should be promotion of our games, something that a lot of people don't think is too important. But attendances are falling. However if teams were to be released, lets say, by the latest Tuesday night, then it would heighten the sense of anticipation and interest would snowball imo.
I know there are cases where this isn't always feasible - replays etc. But if someone is doubtful with injury, pick him on the team with the caveat 'subject to a fitness test'.
But no doubt some managers would use loopholes like this to name a dummy team. The mindset has to change

Quote from: Galforever on July 07, 2008, 02:02:50 PM

??? ??? ???

Whats the point of winning an all-ireland if you dont beat the best teams on the way to doing so. That is the purpose of winning it, not getting a handy run along the way!

Okay maybe I have a fear of Kerry. I think its forgiveable all things considered. I agree, it would be the best way to win the All-Ireland - to beat the best teams along the way. But when you've been waiting as long as we have you'll tend not to be fussy.
Anyway such talk is premature at this stage so back to Sunday.
Presuming the match-ups go as expected and P Joyce is picked up by Heaney and M Meehan by K Higgins, where will Kieran Conroy play and how much of a problem will it be, IF Mayo win, that their new full-back will be going into an All-Ireland quarter-final without having played a championship game there?
Whats the Galway team looking like lads? Naturally ye'll have P Joyce, N Joyce, M Meehan and M Clancy in attack. Who'll be the two to join them? Will the Breatchnach (sp)experiment continue (from a Mayo viewpoint I hope so) and will Sammon stick with Paul Conroy? Or will Damien Dunleavy come in at wing-forward and, the real danger from a Mayo viewpoint, pacey players like Bane and/or Armstrong be given their chance?

The Galway team will be much solider than the Leitrim match. I expect Fitzgerald and Blake to start at 2 and 6 respectively with Coyne on the bench unless Meehan injured.. As I ve said before our full forward line as constructed is pre-cooked for Galway full back line and Blake brings a lot of physicality to 6. Looks like Sammon will stick with Breathnach. Like Forde he obviously has not the same belief in Nicky Joyce or Seán Armstrong as popular opinion.
As regards Mayo full back. I expect Galway will start Conroy to support midfield and as an outlet for their own kick-outs and there is where our Conroy should be deployed. I cant see us havin a settled full back line and there is no sense in it.
Our most important match-up is who picks up Matthew Clancy. Much more important than Meehan ,Joyces, or Armstrongs even though Galway lads seem to have little time for him. I would prefer to see these match- ups

  Boyle v Breathnach/ Armstrong/ N Joyce - worried about  Br's height but apart from that I d expect him to come out on top all three.

  Higgins v  Meehan -  Been there before. On the day.

  Heaney v Joyce - We ve seen it before, make your own mind up.

Conroy V Conroy. Our lad was brought in as a full back but looks like he can play around the middle comfortably and could be there for years. Could be the joker in the pack. Fine footballer. So is the Galway Conroy so I think we need height in hb line to counter Galway s use of Dunleavy or Conroy as ball winning options. Naturally Mayo management will have these angles sorted, I m sure, as it happened in the league match in Castlebar a few month s ago. Yawn! Its too predictable.

Cuniffe v Nicky Joyce. Who knows? I would expect advantage Mayo if Cuniffe can attack behind a winning midfield  but there are still question marks about Cuniffe s defence when backs are to the wall.

Nallen V Clancy. I would thrust Nallen to do this job more than I would anybody else.

If we can quieten Clancy we can win it although on the other end of the pitch we have it all to do. I d be hoping our advantage  our pace [ I think we have more pace about us] will decide it but I think Galway have the better assurance and composure. Not at all sure how it will turn out. Usually in tight games Galway win.

Quote from: moysider on July 08, 2008, 01:31:03 AM

The Galway team will be much solider than the Leitrim match.

The Galway team will be much more solid Moysider. We might be getting nervous as the big day looms but that's no reason to abandon correct grammar. Tsk tsk tsk.  :P

Any word on Howley lads? Its all very quiet - if fit I would expect him to replace Colm Boyle.

Other than that Dillon will come in for Gardiner and I'd say he'll leave it at that.

Probable Galway team: Doherty, Bradshaw, Hanley, Fitzgerald, Meehan, Blake/Coyne, Sice, Cullinane, Coleman, Conroy/Breathnach/Armstrong, P.Joyce, N.Joyce, M.Clancy, M.Meehan, C.Bane

I would think that Blake will get the nod at 6 & Breathnach at 10 but I cant see it deviating far from this.

My preferred team would be: Doherty, Fitzgerald, Hanley, D. Burke, Coyne, Blake, Mulahy, Culliane, Coleman, Conroy, P.Joyce, Breathnach, Clancy, Meehan, N. Joyce

no harm that the team isn't named yet, I don't quite see how it takes away from the build when it is the main thing people are talking about! it adds to it in many ways. We don't know if Howley will make it, in fact we don't know who will play or where. Anyway, it's only Tuesday lads, calm down a little or the nerves will be shot by Sunday!

plus it gives us all a bit longer to pick our teams
here mine, how wrong could i be
Clarke
L omalley D heaney J nallen
P gardiner BJP   K higgins

Harte Parsons

A campbell A dillon Kilcoyne
C mort T mort A moran

in reality the most i hope for is BJP to come in some how for Boyle . who I dont think looked up to it at all v sligo . or at least move Gardiner back. to bring in some of my more attack minded Half forward line as there wasnt a true half forward playing there the last day.

What type of player is Parsons. I have yet to see him play. He is a pt scorer / goal threat midfielder. Whom would one compare him to ?

Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on July 07, 2008, 05:49:05 PM

Quote from: kevmy on July 07, 2008, 05:27:19 PM
I've stated in the Cork v Kerry thread that all the teams which have won through the back door have made at least one radical change to their side since losing in the province and appearing in Croker. The qualifiers help them fine tune it usually with a handy draw to start them off. In 01 Galway put Mannion in centre back and got Wicklow away, in 05 Tyrone put Cormac McAnallen in FB after they got destroyed their by Down in the Ulster final and in 06 Kerry moved Donaghy away from being a hindrance in midfield to a phenomenon in FF and they also managed to get Longford in Fitz stadium in the qualifiers.

You're mixing 05 up with 03, if the Tyronies see that they'll have u for breakfast  :P

Jeez your right. I wouldn't want those boys after me.



As regards how we're fixed for a team I think we all have to remember that Johnno has always been a horses for courses man. His view is you play to your own strengths and your opposition's weakness. Keeping this in mind I'm more and more coming around to the idea of playing Harte centre forward and putting Dillon on the wing. Blake is a big strong centre back and I reckon Harte would be more able for him, add in that Dillon has done his best work for us over the years on the wing I hope thats how they'll line out.

As for the backs, unless Howley is 100% fit I don't think we should change. There is nothing else on the sideline that is a hell of a lot better than what we have so it's best to leave well enough alone. I think we'll see Higgins on Meehan and Heaney on Joyce. I'm not sure if Nallen has the legs to follow Clancy all over the pitch so that might be a job for either Cuniffe or Boyle. I'll agree that Conroy will follow Conroy. If Bane is played I'd like Nallen to pick him up.


@ King of Kilskerry: I'd compare Parsons to Sean Cavanagh (if he had played more than one championship game anyway), he's tall, elegant, can win ball over his head and come forward and score

I'd agree Kevmy, Johnno is a horses for courses man alright and I'd expect him to leave Conroy out the field. I think Conroy is there for the day we meet a big full-forward but rather than bringing him in from the cold for that day, he will play most games and he is well able to play around the middle.
It's good to have the big full back option to fall back on when we meet a different sort of FF. He wouldn't be suited to Meehan from what I have seen of him so I'd say Higgins will be picking him up, and we could well end up with a 2 man full back line like we had against Sligo. I would have my reservations about Boyle too so we may see a change there depending on the fitness of Howley.

How do you leave MacGarrity out of the team?
Serious lack of defending defenders in Gardiner, BJP and K Higgins of a half back line,
And a serious lack of pace in the full back line.

Ronan MacGarrity is Mayo's most important player! Impossible to leave him out!

Quote from: Bomber2312 on July 08, 2008, 02:11:13 PM
How do you leave MacGarrity out of the team?
Serious lack of defending defenders in Gardiner, BJP and K Higgins of a half back line,
And a serious lack of pace in the full back line.

Ronan MacGarrity is Mayo's most important player! Impossible to leave him out!

Picking them on form Harte and parsons were far better than Mcgarrity against sligo , also if galway go at mayo and throw the rule book out the window as they have been doing recently i think parsons and harte would cope better. and as with harte it should be midfield or nowhere for him. not having a CHF could easily had done for mayo .
the half back line is an attacking one because that how mayo should play the game and is there strongest asset and where sucess will come from if it is to come.
your full back line is a myth . try running alonsg side nallen or heaney and then tell me they are slow and they are real  top class footballers and we dont have many of those since Mac and Brady left, Dillion probably being the only other at the minute

Quote from: rosnarun on July 08, 2008, 10:27:20 AM
plus it gives us all a bit longer to pick our teams
here mine, how wrong could i be
Clarke
L omalley D heaney J nallen
P gardiner BJP   K higgins

Harte Parsons

A campbell A dillon Kilcoyne
C mort T mort A moran

in reality the most i hope for is BJP to come in some how for Boyle . who I dont think looked up to it at all v sligo . or at least move Gardiner back. to bring in some of my more attack minded Half forward line as there wasnt a true half forward playing there the last day.

Ros I have to agree with Bomber.
You say your going on form but your leaving out our 2nd top scorer for 2008. Austin O'Malley has 0-21 so far.
And Andy Moran was brought to the cleaners against Sligo. Austy got two (from play off both feet I think) and was one of our more dangerous forwards. Liam O malley has not played a game for Mayo since March. BJP has not had a game since March too. So they could be out of the picture for the starting line up for the time being.

I would however like to see Kilcoyne get a shot. He made a big mark when he came on against Sligo.

Howley wont be ready. There is some speculation that Conroy will be left to fend on Meehan with Higgins tracking Clancy. Higgins the ideal man for Clancy and Clancy seen as the greater threat but Meehan on Conroy could be a match winner for Galway.
I think management will start the same team again and bring Dillon on later. The Barry Moran option is gone  as he s reported to have broken a bone in his hand.

Quote from: rosnarun on July 08, 2008, 02:25:48 PM

Quote from: Bomber2312 on July 08, 2008, 02:11:13 PM
How do you leave MacGarrity out of the team?
Serious lack of defending defenders in Gardiner, BJP and K Higgins of a half back line,
And a serious lack of pace in the full back line.

Ronan MacGarrity is Mayo's most important player! Impossible to leave him out!

Picking them on form Harte and parsons were far better than Mcgarrity against sligo , also if galway go at mayo and throw the rule book out the window as they have been doing recently i think parsons and harte would cope better. and as with harte it should be midfield or nowhere for him. not having a CHF could easily had done for mayo .
the half back line is an attacking one because that how mayo should play the game and is there strongest asset and where sucess will come from if it is to come.
your full back line is a myth . try running alonsg side nallen or heaney and then tell me they are slow and they are real  top class footballers and we dont have many of those since Mac and Brady left, Dillion probably being the only other at the minute

You pick parsons who has played one championship game versus a division 4 team(no offence to sligo but they havent performed all year) over the captain of the team and who has been nominated for multiple all stars? You have omitted the most experienced mid fielder at this level. Hartes performance which you said was very impressive was from CHF so what is your rationale for suggesting that this form would continue against superior opposition in a different position?

Your half back line is just not feasable, none of these has played championship footbal in the half back line this year!(so does the form argument go out the window here?) Billy Joe is only back from injury, gardiner is now classed as a forward.

What relevence would me running beside any of these fellas have? for all you no i could be Maurice Green? And besides.....its not a myth, liam o malley has been proven to be too loose as a corner back(he's a far better half back), Nallen doesnt have the legs for a task so close to goal. He definitely has something to offer but not in that position, the galway full forward line is on fire at the minute!

Quote from: rosnarun on July 08, 2008, 02:25:48 PM
also if galway go at mayo and throw the rule book out the window as they have been doing recently i think parsons and harte would cope better.

Is this just whinging on rosnarun's part or do the lot of ye Mayo folk think that. Don't bother going on about Coleman, he should have walked sooner last year admittedly; as already said on here by another Galway poster he's like that in every game anyway and has been since minor.
Did we really "throw the rule book out the window"? I think that's a ridiculous statement to be honest and needs to be highlighted for the biased rubbish it is.

I expect JOM will have his team mentored on rough play by opponents. The refs are coming down heavy on it so it will be interesting to see how galway behave.

Quote from: An Fhairche Abu on July 08, 2008, 03:04:56 PM

Quote from: rosnarun on July 08, 2008, 02:25:48 PM
also if galway go at mayo and throw the rule book out the window as they have been doing recently i think parsons and harte would cope better.

Is this just whinging on rosnarun's part or do the lot of ye Mayo folk think that. Don't bother going on about Coleman, he should have walked sooner last year admittedly; as already said on here by another Galway poster he's like that in every game anyway and has been since minor.
Did we really "throw the rule book out the window"? I think that's a ridiculous statement to be honest and needs to be highlighted for the biased rubbish it is.

no i think galway played tough but fair it was a lot more physical than under o' mahony's stewardship but galway were just trying to follow the example of Kerry, Armagh, Tyrone and Dublin and probably changed their style to a more combative  one which wasn't their natural style of football however they played they way their manager wanted them to. Looking  forward to the match on sunday hard to know how mayo stand as unfortunately we didn't learn a whole lot from the game against sligo . Galway against leitrim allways had enough and in spells they looked excellent so its hard to know what to expect when we meet, what we have learnt from cork on sunday is that when bitter rivals meet form goes out the window.

QuoteBomber2312 is talking crap. McGarrity will not last the heat. Ginger tosser

This was just posted by Bomber2312 himself and then the post was deleted! Which one of you Mayo boys has the split personality??!!

Quote from: An Fhairche Abu on July 08, 2008, 03:04:56 PM

Quote from: rosnarun on July 08, 2008, 02:25:48 PM
also if galway go at mayo and throw the rule book out the window as they have been doing recently i think parsons and harte would cope better.

Is this just whinging on rosnarun's part or do the lot of ye Mayo folk think that. Don't bother going on about Coleman, he should have walked sooner last year admittedly; as already said on here by another Galway poster he's like that in every game anyway and has been since minor.
Did we really "throw the rule book out the window"? I think that's a ridiculous statement to be honest and needs to be highlighted for the biased rubbish it is.

Would nt agree about the rule book at all. Its up to the ref to implement the rules and if players push things thats to be expected.
In my time Galway have had a more combative  edge to them and that has manifested itself probably more so against  Mayo than anybody else. I remember Tierney saying publically after his transfer to Mayo that the Galway teams he played on regarded Mayo as having a soft centre and played them accordingly. Likes of Tierney. McHugh and Peter Lee did nt take prisoners and thats ok in my book.
  Of the present day team Burke sails close to the wind with his marking/tackling game. You mention Coleman yourself and some of Cullinane s challenges in this year s championship have been clumsy at best. Blake another hardy customer.
  I for one am not whingin. I expect all teams to have a few hard men. Up to the referee to keep it fair. Just wish we had a Colm Mac,Kevin Stanton, Peter Butler or Seán Maher or 2 to even things up. I think our team is too nice.
 

Quote from: moysider on July 08, 2008, 03:50:08 PM

remember Tierney saying publically after his transfer to.

when you think of it that was a big decision for tierney transfering to Mayo , can imagine the abuse the players would receive from "fans" if someone was to transfer today from either camp

Quote from: the Deel Rover on July 08, 2008, 03:56:06 PM

Quote from: moysider on July 08, 2008, 03:50:08 PM

remember Tierney saying publically after his transfer to.

when you think of it that was a big decision for tierney transfering to Mayo , can imagine the abuse the players would receive from "fans" if someone was to transfer today from either camp

Tierney was living and teaching in Westport at the time.  He wasnt wanted by the Galway management of that time and he always said it was a much harder decision for him to transfer from Milltown to Westport than it was from Galway to Mayo.  He did ship a lot of abuse for it at the time both on and off the field.  I seem to remember Alan Mulholland having a right cut off him in Castlebar one year.

Quote from: GaillimhIarthair on July 08, 2008, 04:01:10 PM

Quote from: the Deel Rover on July 08, 2008, 03:56:06 PM

Quote from: moysider on July 08, 2008, 03:50:08 PM

remember Tierney saying publically after his transfer to.

when you think of it that was a big decision for tierney transfering to Mayo , can imagine the abuse the players would receive from "fans" if someone was to transfer today from either camp

Tierney was living and teaching in Westport at the time.  He wasnt wanted by the Galway management of that time and he always said it was a much harder decision for him to transfer from Milltown to Westport than it was from Galway to Mayo.  He did ship a lot of abuse for it at the time both on and off the field.  I seem to remember Alan Mulholland having a right cut off him in Castlebar one year.

ye it probably would have been harder for him to leave the club allright Gi.  Never seen a more low profile connact final in my life not a mention of it at all  whats the buzz in Galway?

Its very low key up here as well Deel.  It will be interesting to see what the attendence will be in Castlebar on Sunday.

Quote from: GaillimhIarthair on July 08, 2008, 04:12:13 PM
Its very low key up here as well Deel.  It will be interesting to see what the attendence will be in Castlebar on Sunday.

ye Gi i assume they will be selling tickets on the gate , if the weather is bad there could be a lot of people staying at home to watch in on the box. I'll be heading up i'm looking forward to buying galway bay boy a pint of medium in Johnny Mcs after the match ;) isn't that right gbb

Quote from: the Deel Rover on July 08, 2008, 04:21:19 PM

Quote from: GaillimhIarthair on July 08, 2008, 04:12:13 PM
Its very low key up here as well Deel.  It will be interesting to see what the attendence will be in Castlebar on Sunday.

ye Gi i assume they will be selling tickets on the gate , if the weather is bad there could be a lot of people staying at home to watch in on the box. I'll be heading up i'm looking forward to buying galway bay boy a pint of medium in Johnny Mcs after the match ;) isn't that right gbb

Last time I was in Johnny McHales, I think they were using an auld biscuit tin as a till  :D I'm sure nothing has changed since as its that type of place.  Does a great pint of Guinness all the same!  Looking forward to hitting McHale Park on Sunday to be sure................

we know at this stage galway think the way to beat mayo is to beat them up . they are not a dirty team and dont try it on other team. mayo may have a soft edge  . but that no excuse for chaging our mainly successful way of playing and type of player.
how you can dismiss gardiner as a half back when he has played 90% of his games there is strange. my view on austin are as constant as the nothern star . he is not an intercounty player. and as accomodations are made for him the whole team game suffers. if he had a bit more speed and awareness he would be a great player and worth building the team around but without it he is a distraction.

Quotewe know at this stage galway think the way to beat mayo is to beat them up .

This is a joke, yeah??  ???

Quote from: Galforever on July 08, 2008, 04:53:43 PM

Quotewe know at this stage galway think the way to beat mayo is to beat them up .

This is a joke, yeah??  ???

:D  ah no Galforever , Ros doesn't joke sure you don't ros  ;)

Quote from: Galforever on July 08, 2008, 04:53:43 PM

Quotewe know at this stage galway think the way to beat mayo is to beat them up .

This is a joke, yeah??  ???

It would be a common enough held view from what I ve heard last few years.

Galway couldn't even compete in the "beat them up" stakes with Tyrone, Armagh, Meath, Kerry and countless other teams, it is grossly unfair to think that Galway can only beat Mayo by beating them up.
"If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen".

Oh by the way if Mayo don't want McGarrity, can we have him?

David Coldrick is refereeing it any way. one of the better ones imo. He refereed our Derry game last year but we cant hold that against him. He ll be fimiliar enough with individual players and their ways. Any Galway posters remember if he s ever done a Galway match and how he got on. Bringing in outside refs has improved matters since the dark days of Prior and Kearins. It was more like tag football while the rest of the country were hopping off one another. Connacht winners literally did nt know what hit them when they left the province.

Quote from: myball22 on July 08, 2008, 05:55:03 PM
Galway couldn't even compete in the "beat them up" stakes with Tyrone, Armagh, Meath, Kerry and countless other teams, it is grossly unfair to think that Galway can only beat Mayo by beating them up.
"If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen".

True enough. If Mayo think they were getting roughed up by Galway imagine if the aforementioned teams got their hands on them. Not sure where this particular myth has grown from in recent years.

Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on July 08, 2008, 06:37:50 PM

Quote from: myball22 on July 08, 2008, 05:55:03 PM
Galway couldn't even compete in the "beat them up" stakes with Tyrone, Armagh, Meath, Kerry and countless other teams, it is grossly unfair to think that Galway can only beat Mayo by beating them up.
"If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen".

True enough. If Mayo think they were getting roughed up by Galway imagine if the aforementioned teams got their hands on them. Not sure where this particular myth has grown from in recent years.

We play some of those aforementioned teams all the time in recent years and there is nt an issue about gettin beaten up.. Dont get what Mayo majority think mixed up with what a couple of individuals express on here and others may also believe. Most Mayo fans would be of the opinion that if Galway have tougher men then they would be silly not to make the most of them. I know i would. No players or management are moaning about it. Unlike a manager last year that I could name that was markin the refs card before a big hurling match.
  I have expressed the opinion here that I think Galway have an edge over us in the physical stakes. I wish the situation was reversed but it s the way it is. Not moaning about it but biased that I am I hope the ref is strict the next day.
  I have also expressed the opinion that I think Galway bring more aggression to the Mayo match than they have to the Corks and Westmeaths in recent years when they hardly looked interested at times. I wish Mayo would up it for Galway but they dont play with any more anger than if they were playing anybody else.

I have to say I felt the opposite was the case in that Mayo always rose it to play Galway particularly some years ago when it was considered by outsiders that Galway had the better team it was always close and that was because of the intensity Mayo played at.To be honest this is a local derby and both teams should be up for it.

No idea about the ref but thank God Prior is long gone, he would be eyeing up a draw from 15 minutes in!!!

Quote from: myball22 on July 08, 2008, 09:40:50 PM

I have to say I felt the opposite was the case in that Mayo always rose it to play Galway particularly some years ago when it was considered by outsiders that Galway had the better team it was always close and that was because of the intensity Mayo played at.To be honest this is a local derby and both teams should be up for it.

No idea about the ref but thank God Prior is long gone, he would be eyeing up a draw from 15 minutes in!!!

Yes. Colm O Rourke and Brolly would trot out the lazy line that Galway had the classier forwards and therefore should win.They did this year after year and I ll never forget the begrudging way they tried to explain away our win in 99. And of course what Colm said was beyond reproach and neutrals believed it had to be the case so. Then some Galway people started codding themselves that the Galway  game was Mayo s All Ireland and we be just out to stop them. Complete shite of course. Galway got the breaks in 98 but we were a bit better in 99 and coasted home. What happened after in semi was down to poor managerial judgement and decision making. We lost our way a bit for a couple of years early noughties  but even when Galway beat us it usually came down to our own inadequacies - Carolan s penalty miss/ Conor s missed frees - rather than much greater Galway superiority. If we had a harder edge we could have won some of those games. Galway had just to wait for us to shoot our bolt and a bit of cunning and a few handy points would do the trick.

I ve often wondered about the Connacht title we threw away in 2001. If we had been the opposition in the quarters in the Hyde instead of Ross in Castlebar. We had beaten Galway in the league final and we were going well enough.

Quote from: GaillimhIarthair on July 08, 2008, 04:01:10 PM

Quote from: the Deel Rover on July 08, 2008, 03:56:06 PM

Quote from: moysider on July 08, 2008, 03:50:08 PM

remember Tierney saying publically after his transfer to.

when you think of it that was a big decision for tierney transfering to Mayo , can imagine the abuse the players would receive from "fans" if someone was to transfer today from either camp

Tierney was living and teaching in Westport at the time.  He wasnt wanted by the Galway management of that time and he always said it was a much harder decision for him to transfer from Milltown to Westport than it was from Galway to Mayo.  He did ship a lot of abuse for it at the time both on and off the field.  I seem to remember Alan Mulholland having a right cut off him in Castlebar one year.

In the Galway Mayo match in McHale where Tierney played for Mayo, was it Val Daly that 'did' Tierney ? I remember Tierney being down for quite a while and had to have taken a right hit. The two of them would of been good friends up to this point anyway ! Both of them hardy customers.

Quote from: moysider on July 08, 2008, 10:25:43 PM

Quote from: myball22 on July 08, 2008, 09:40:50 PM

I have to say I felt the opposite was the case in that Mayo always rose it to play Galway particularly some years ago when it was considered by outsiders that Galway had the better team it was always close and that was because of the intensity Mayo played at.To be honest this is a local derby and both teams should be up for it.

No idea about the ref but thank God Prior is long gone, he would be eyeing up a draw from 15 minutes in!!!

Yes. Colm O Rourke and Brolly would trot out the lazy line that Galway had the classier forwards and therefore should win.They did this year after year and I ll never forget the begrudging way they tried to explain away our win in 99. And of course what Colm said was beyond reproach and neutrals believed it had to be the case so. Then some Galway people started codding themselves that the Galway  game was Mayo s All Ireland and we be just out to stop them. Complete shite of course. Galway got the breaks in 98 but we were a bit better in 99 and coasted home. What happened after in semi was down to poor managerial judgement and decision making. We lost our way a bit for a couple of years early noughties  but even when Galway beat us it usually came down to our own inadequacies - Carolan s penalty miss/ Conor s missed frees - rather than much greater Galway superiority. If we had a harder edge we could have won some of those games. Galway had just to wait for us to shoot our bolt and a bit of cunning and a few handy points would do the trick.

I think you're damning Galway there with faint praise a bit by saying that they could only beat Mayo due to Mayo's own mistakes. Galway were just generally a better team in those days and had that extra but of quality and that's why they won most of those encounters. Of course most of those games were tight but it's rarely any other way in a derby. 1999 well we were never at the races that year really. The intense focus wasn't the same as it was in 98, 2000 and 2001 and the 6 months of celebrations after 98 didn't help obviously with some players going into the Connacht championship that year noticeably carrying some extra timber. Looking back maybe 1999 was a lost opportunity as neither Meath nor Cork were vintage sides that year yet both still ended up in the AI final which turned out to be a poor quality affair. Then again we may never have come so close in 2000 and won again in 2001 only for those disappointments.

Quote from: moysider on July 08, 2008, 10:25:43 PM
I ve often wondered about the Connacht title we threw away in 2001. If we had been the opposition in the quarters in the Hyde instead of Ross in Castlebar. We had beaten Galway in the league final and we were going well enough.

Take a look at the Galway team lineup from the league final (that still only lost by a point to Mayo) and the one that faced Roscommon in the Q-final. John Donnellan, Lorcan Colleran, Keiran Comer and John Divilly were all in the starting lineup and were all gone by the business end of the championship. Tomas Mannion, Ja (although he was out for the q-final I think), Gary Fahy, Richie Fahy didn't start that day either.
I'd be confident enough we'd have beaten ye truth be told but sure it's all ifs and buts at this stage.

Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on July 08, 2008, 11:10:44 PM

Quote from: moysider on July 08, 2008, 10:25:43 PM

Quote from: myball22 on July 08, 2008, 09:40:50 PM

I have to say I felt the opposite was the case in that Mayo always rose it to play Galway particularly some years ago when it was considered by outsiders that Galway had the better team it was always close and that was because of the intensity Mayo played at.To be honest this is a local derby and both teams should be up for it.

No idea about the ref but thank God Prior is long gone, he would be eyeing up a draw from 15 minutes in!!!

Yes. Colm O Rourke and Brolly would trot out the lazy line that Galway had the classier forwards and therefore should win.They did this year after year and I ll never forget the begrudging way they tried to explain away our win in 99. And of course what Colm said was beyond reproach and neutrals believed it had to be the case so. Then some Galway people started codding themselves that the Galway  game was Mayo s All Ireland and we be just out to stop them. Complete shite of course. Galway got the breaks in 98 but we were a bit better in 99 and coasted home. What happened after in semi was down to poor managerial judgement and decision making. We lost our way a bit for a couple of years early noughties  but even when Galway beat us it usually came down to our own inadequacies - Carolan s penalty miss/ Conor s missed frees - rather than much greater Galway superiority. If we had a harder edge we could have won some of those games. Galway had just to wait for us to shoot our bolt and a bit of cunning and a few handy points would do the trick.

I think you're damning Galway there with faint praise a bit by saying that they could only beat Mayo due to Mayo's own mistakes. Galway were just generally a better team in those days and had that extra but of quality and that's why they won most of those encounters. Of course most of those games were tight but it's rarely any other way in a derby. 1999 well we were never at the races that year really. The intense focus wasn't the same as it was in 98, 2000 and 2001 and the 6 months of celebrations after 98 didn't help obviously with some players going into the Connacht championship that year noticeably carrying some extra timber. Looking back maybe 1999 was a lost opportunity as neither Meath nor Cork were vintage sides that year yet both still ended up in the AI final which turned out to be a poor quality affair. Then again we may never have come so close in 2000 and won again in 2001 only for those disappointments.

Far from damning Galway but I would have been more concerned with our own inadequacies than Galway s quality as percieved by themselves or their admirers elsewhere.. For me likes of Joyce, Donnellan Fallon were great players but we always coped fairly well with them year in, year out. Those same boys did more damage to  Fay and Ryan than they ever did to Cahill, Heaney or Nallen. The difference often was silly stuff on our part. Derek Savage was the forward I always feared most and the next day I fear Clancy more than I do Meehan or Joyce. And  I think the result may well be down to some silly stuff again on our part [ there are ??? about one or two of our fellas, not so much about Galway] Our management have nailed their colours to the mast with this team and there s a lot of credibility resting on this one.

Quote from: An Fhairche Abu on July 08, 2008, 11:27:37 PM

Quote from: moysider on July 08, 2008, 10:25:43 PM
I ve often wondered about the Connacht title we threw away in 2001. If we had been the opposition in the quarters in the Hyde instead of Ross in Castlebar. We had beaten Galway in the league final and we were going well enough.

Take a look at the Galway team lineup from the league final (that still only lost by a point to Mayo) and the one that faced Roscommon in the Q-final. John Donnellan, Lorcan Colleran, Keiran Comer and John Divilly were all in the starting lineup and were all gone by the business end of the championship. Tomas Mannion, Ja (although he was out for the q-final I think), Gary Fahy, Richie Fahy didn't start that day either.
I'd be confident enough we'd have beaten ye truth be told but sure it's all ifs and buts at this stage.

Yeah. Water under the bridge. Mind you we had some gluggers in that league final as well.

QuoteIve often wondered about the Connacht title we threw away in 2001. If we had been the opposition in the quarters in the Hyde instead of Ross in Castlebar. We had beaten Galway in the league final and we were going well enough.

I am sure Moysider you meant to say here "that we lost so narrowly to Ros"   :D

Quote from: myball22 on July 08, 2008, 09:40:50 PM
No idea about the ref but thank God Prior is long gone, he would be eyeing up a draw from 15 minutes in!!!

Ye were glad of him in '98 all the same ;)

Quote from: moysider on July 08, 2008, 10:25:43 PM
If we had been the opposition in the quarters in the Hyde instead of Ross in Castlebar. We had beaten Galway in the league final and we were going well enough.

Mayo may have well done better against Galway than Ros in the Q's.

However consider that;

1) Ros sat idle for 5 weeks as champions while Galway went through 3 rounds of the qualifiers with the chance to right the wrongs and build match fitness.

2) Johnno always said the Galway defence was atrocious in the earlier game in Tuam & he used the qualifiers to tighten it up considerably, which obviously did Ros no favours, given that thety had to outscore an outstanding Galway attack.

3) He also said the Galway players were stunned by the negativity and outright criticism following the Tuam defeat & would have run through walls to redeem their self-esteem and reputations as much as anything thereafter.

I'm not going to try and say whether Mayo would have beaten Galway or not, but you'd have to say the Tribesmen were a whole different prospect in early August than they were in the late Spring.

Quote from: Tatler Jack on July 08, 2008, 11:51:40 PM

QuoteIve often wondered about the Connacht title we threw away in 2001. If we had been the opposition in the quarters in the Hyde instead of Ross in Castlebar. We had beaten Galway in the league final and we were going well enough.

I am sure Moysider you meant to say here "that we lost so narrowly to Ros"   :D

Did nt mean to say that at all Jack. One of the worst f**K ups of all time imo. Sending off of Connelly was a travesty but Dolan could not have had more luck after. I ve already said my piece about us f**king up the end game some time ago. I do appreciate the quality of Lohan's finish but it should never have come to that.

Quotewe know at this stage galway think the way to beat mayo is to beat them up . they are not a dirty team and dont try it on other team.

i know quting yourself is the ultimate in vanity but you only read the 1st bit . I agree Galway dont try the rough house stuff on other teams event leitrim. but ther seems to be a definite impression in galway that mayo are all about bleached hair and white boots. i dont think its effective as the games seem to be going about 50/50 and maybe now the boxer is gone galway will try to play a bit of football sunday.  though i have my doubts.

Quote from: rosnarun on July 09, 2008, 12:37:35 AM
i dont think its effective as the games seem to be going about 50/50 and maybe now the boxer is gone galway will try to play a bit of football sunday.  though i have my doubts.

Are you any relation to or are you that Ball-Boy character on hoganstand.com?

Quote from: spectator on July 09, 2008, 12:03:33 AM

Quote from: myball22 on July 08, 2008, 09:40:50 PM
No idea about the ref but thank God Prior is long gone, he would be eyeing up a draw from 15 minutes in!!!

Ye were glad of him in '98 all the same ;)

Quote from: moysider on July 08, 2008, 10:25:43 PM
If we had been the opposition in the quarters in the Hyde instead of Ross in Castlebar. We had beaten Galway in the league final and we were going well enough.

Mayo may have well done better against Galway than Ros in the Q's.

However consider that;

1) Ros sat idle for 5 weeks as champions while Galway went through 3 rounds of the qualifiers with the chance to right the wrongs and build match fitness.

2) Johnno always said the Galway defence was atrocious in the earlier game in Tuam & he used the qualifiers to tighten it up considerably, which obviously did Ros no favours, given that thety had to outscore an outstanding Galway attack.

3) He also said the Galway players were stunned by the negativity and outright criticism following the Tuam defeat & would have run through walls to redeem their self-esteem and reputations as much as anything thereafter.

I'm not going to try and say whether Mayo would have beaten Galway or not, but you'd have to say the Tribesmen were a whole different prospect in early August than they were in the late Spring.

Fair play Spectatorfor bringing this up.There s always been a fair amount of spin about that match in Tuam. I remember going to the match with 3 mates. I was in the back of the car and there was an article about Martina Hingis in the ... Observer Sports magazine I think it was. She was running along a beach in Melbourne after winning the Australian Open. Martina was wearing a short red dress and holding a newly opened bottle of champagne that was bubbling over. Of course the hitchcockian style image was not lost on anybody. But I digress.
  Galway were hammered that day. The defence was atrocious as Johnno admitted  but Johnno prepared and picked that defence. Mannion had conceded something like 2-3 before half time and I never thought I d see him in maroon again . He was to the best of my recollection replaced at ht. However Johnno knew better. Divilly was brutal as well and he decided to go with Mannion at CHB for the rest of the Summer. The rest is history.

As regards the  negativity and criticism? Well all I can say he would nt want to lose next Sunday after Celtic Park and Salthill last year if he does nt like criticism. Mind you I dont remember a big Galway attendance or interest that day at all in 2001.  Johnno has already been spiky about even mild criticism in Mayo but again I digress. I had a ticket to spare gratis that day and the only lad that would take it from me was a Rossie Kid that looked down on his luck. It was either that or bring it home with me and i dropped my guard for a moment.

Johnno has always been credited with the 2001 revival and the myth has grown that there was some kind of masterplan in Tuam 01 to harden Galway up and rebuild the team through the qualifiers. Johnno drowned that day but managed to revive the situation. Many mayo people expect the same good fortune in Mayo. It would be the same as catchin two 20 lb salmon in the same place with a first cast 2 years in a row. Johnno himself has admitted that he was nt sure how the qualifiers worked and whether they had another chance after Tuam defeat. He s on record as saying that he thought that only provincial finalists got a second chance  - as was the case in hurling at that time. Napoleon was right about his generals.

Quote from: moysider on July 09, 2008, 01:19:11 AM

I remember going to the match with 3 mates. I was in the back of the car and there was an article about Martina Hingis in the ... Observer Sports magazine I think it was. She was running along a beach in Melbourne after winning the Australian Open. Martina was wearing a short red dress and holding a newly opened bottle of champagne that was bubbling over. Of course the hitchcockian style image was not lost on anybody. But I digress.

Martina obviously left quite the impression on you Moysider  :D

Brace yourself moyside - what I am about to post below may be the highlight of your week (including the match):

(http://www.tribuneindia.com/1999/99jan31/hingis.jpg)

Any word on whether howley will be starting or not?

Quote from: Bod Mor on July 09, 2008, 01:10:53 AM

Quote from: rosnarun on July 09, 2008, 12:37:35 AM
i dont think its effective as the games seem to be going about 50/50 and maybe now the boxer is gone galway will try to play a bit of football sunday.  though i have my doubts.

Are you any relation to or are you that Ball-Boy character on hoganstand.com?

err no but im just doubting why change what they think is effective. well know from the line out what way it'll pan out.

well done barney , you can keep your OVA's EVA's and OVICH's always liked the czech/swiss miss

Quote from: rosnarun on July 09, 2008, 12:37:35 AM

Quotewe know at this stage galway think the way to beat mayo is to beat them up . they are not a dirty team and dont try it on other team.

i know quting yourself is the ultimate in vanity but you only read the 1st bit . I agree Galway dont try the rough house stuff on other teams event leitrim. but ther seems to be a definite impression in galway that mayo are all about bleached hair and white boots. i dont think its effective as the games seem to be going about 50/50 and maybe now the boxer is gone galway will try to play a bit of football sunday.  though i have my doubts.

I think you've mentioned the important bit there ros. In Galways defence they used their rough house tactics while Forde was in charge, they weren't as dirty before him and I expect to see them playing to their strengths again now that he's gone. I have never associated Mayo or Galway with dirty football, that's why it was always such a shock when we left the province, only the Rossies used to roughen us up and prepare us for the more physical teams!
Galway did seem to play with more of an edge against us than any other team but I would put a good bit of that down to Forde, he knew what players to get at and he desperately wanted to get one over on the Mayo county board so he brought a much more northern style to Galways game (some Galway lads were more than happy to follow his lead ;)). I'm expecting a more open clash next Sunday, with Johnno and Liam Sammon both belonging to the purists camp rather than the glorified rugby league one.

QuoteClarke believes in Mayo mix

GAVIN CUMMISKEY  CONNACHT SFC

AN INTERESTING point was made by Mayo goalkeeper David Clarke at yesterday's promotion for the Connacht football final against Galway on Sunday in Castlebar. How well can an amateur squad know each other?

Sure, there are the long coach trips to away games, but the iPod normally takes precedence. With careers or studies ensuring intercounty players' life are fairly hectic, they rarely have time to stand around after training.

Sometimes, it takes years to bond. Sometimes, it never comes. In the case of the new-look Mayo panel there was a natural teething process. John O'Mahony made a conscious decision this season to bring on the next generation. For Clarke, the main priority was to familiarise himself with full back Kieran Conroy.

"It takes a while. Kieran played the last few games in the league and Billy Joe (Padden) was there before that. I have known Billy Joe for a good number of years, I got to know Kieran only in the last number of months and that trip to Portugal was very helpful.

"You got to speak to people because when you are working you just go training and do your work and you could be working at night or early in the morning and don't have time to be sticking around chit-chatting. So the trip to Portugal was very beneficial because there were lads I wouldn't have known and got to know them and have a few pints with them."

So, it is an unknown mix that welcomes Galway to McHale Park. A rebuilding year, as christened by O'Mahony recently; a fusion of an All-Ireland winning under-21 team into a group that has twice suffered at the hands of Kerry with Sam Maguire in sight.

"You cannot keep looking back and killing yourself about what happened in the past," said Clarke. "Especially myself. I am disappointed with what happened last year against Derry I made an error and the game fell after that.

"That is in my own mind more so than 2006 (All-Ireland final), I got rid of thinking about 2006, I don't think about it anymore. I said we have a lot of new players, we are working together and we just want to see how we get on."

To many people outside of Connacht they are unfamiliar names. "Some of them were introduced last year through the qualifiers ...Tom Cunniffe. If you look through the team that is starting, Colm Boyle won an All-Ireland, Kieran Conroy is a young enough player.

"Colm Boyle made his debut, Kieran Conroy made his debut, Tom Parsons played last year against Derry. Mark Ronaldson came on the last day against Sligo to make his debut, as did Mickey Mullins.

"So there are a large number of players like that. Shane Nallen is another one on the panel. Aiden Campbell is on the panel, there are a large number of younger players.

"I don't think you can really say they are too young because the fact is a lot of teams that win All-Irelands definitely have 19 and 20 year olds. They are the people that have ambition and drive. Speed is a big thing in today's game and you have that in abundance when you are 19 to 21."

© 2008 The Irish Times

That's a fairly token interview with Clarkie from Cumiskey, isn't it? You'd think he could even let on he cared what David had to tell him.  >:(

When will the teams be named?

Grumpy old Eugene McGee has some views in this weeks Western People. Found it strange enough. Unfortunately its not on the digital edition so I cant put it on here. Anybody else read it?

Clarke
Boyle
Conroy
K Higgins
Cuniffe
Heaney
Nallen
McGarrity
Parsons
Dillon
Harte
T Mort
C Mort
Austie
Moran

One change - dillon in for gardiner. Do you think this will be the team to start - it nearly names itself by now which is rare for a mayo team.
Mayo to win pulling up................!!!!!!

Quote from: moysider on July 09, 2008, 01:19:11 AM
but Johnno prepared and picked that defence. Mannion had conceded something like 2-3 before half time and I never thought I d see him in maroon again . He was to the best of my recollection replaced at ht. However Johnno knew better. Divilly was brutal as well and he decided to go with Mannion at CHB for the rest of the Summer.

Wasn't it was Divilly who was replaced at half time & then for the qualifiers Mannion's move to chb along with the introduction of Kieran Fitz to the full back line helped improve the defensive side of things.

Quote from: moysider on July 09, 2008, 01:19:11 AM
As regards the  negativity and criticism? Well all I can say he would nt want to lose next Sunday after Celtic Park and Salthill last year if he does nt like criticism.

To be fair to Johnno, it wasn't him who was sensitive to the fallout from the Ros defeat - after all he was well used to severe criticism after his post 1991 Connacht final bashing while managing Mayo. However, senior players like Kevin Walsh & TM spoke after the Q-final of how they'd been derided as under-achievers, who'd be known as a one all-ireland team only. Given that the Ros defeat came on the back of their 2000 AI defeat, they both said the criticism spurred on the Galway players to achieve a second all-ireland win in order to answer naysayers amongst other things.

Quote from: moysider on July 09, 2008, 01:19:11 AM
Johnno has always been credited with the 2001 revival and the myth has grown that there was some kind of masterplan in Tuam 01 to harden Galway up and rebuild the team through the qualifiers. Johnno drowned that day but managed to revive the situation. Many mayo people expect the same good fortune in Mayo. Johnno himself has admitted that he was nt sure how the qualifiers worked and whether they had another chance after Tuam defeat. He s on record as saying that he thought that only provincial finalists got a second chance  - as was the case in hurling at that time. Napoleon was right about his generals.

Yeah, I agree with most of that. Johnno thought Galway were out of the championship in the immediate aftermath of the Tuam defeat. He said neither himself or the players had thought of anything other than a victory when approaching the game. Any barstool chat about a pre-conceived 'masterplan' to rebuild through the qualifers is complete and utter drivel.

When you consider he was undecided on whether to continue as manager after his third year in charge, it's perhaps unsurprising that he encountered the hiccup in Tuam. Quite simply he hadn't been planning for a fourth year at the helm, imo, and made a fairly good job of sorting things out over the remainder of the year.

Perhaps he has luck on his side, but it's undeniable that he has great football acumen and outstanding managerial ability.  You make your own luck, after all is said and done. ;)

Quote from: moysider on July 09, 2008, 10:52:25 PM

Clarke
Boyle
Conroy
K Higgins
Cuniffe
Heaney
Nallen
McGarrity
Parsons
Dillon
Harte
T Mort
C Mort
Austie
Moran

No real surprise from what most had predicted - getting excited about Sunday night. Are the other Aussie based posters staying at home for the comfort or heading out for the atmosphere, I've Monday off but can't decide.

Quote from: stephenite on July 10, 2008, 02:40:41 AM

Quote from: moysider on July 09, 2008, 10:52:25 PM

Clarke
Boyle
Conroy
K Higgins
Cuniffe
Heaney
Nallen
McGarrity
Parsons
Dillon
Harte
T Mort
C Mort
Austie
Moran

No real surprise from what most had predicted - getting excited about Sunday night. Are the other Aussie based posters staying at home for the comfort or heading out for the atmosphere, I've Monday off but can't decide.

Good to see Dillon back. Can't wait for Sunday, the butterflies are forming already.

Not sure what I am doing Sunday night yet. I may end up in PJ O'Brien's or Paddy McGuires.

Quote from: Bod Mor on July 10, 2008, 02:50:06 AM

Quote from: stephenite on July 10, 2008, 02:40:41 AM

Quote from: moysider on July 09, 2008, 10:52:25 PM

Clarke
Boyle
Conroy
K Higgins
Cuniffe
Heaney
Nallen
McGarrity
Parsons
Dillon
Harte
T Mort
C Mort
Austie
Moran

No real surprise from what most had predicted - getting excited about Sunday night. Are the other Aussie based posters staying at home for the comfort or heading out for the atmosphere, I've Monday off but can't decide.

Good to see Dillon back. Can't wait for Sunday, the butterflies are forming already.

Not sure what I am doing Sunday night yet. I may end up in PJ O'Brien's or Paddy McGuires.

Aye I'm really getting excited about it now. Missing a great weekend at home but looking forward to a Conn final a lot more than a would have thought a few months ago.
I'll definitely be out - one of our crew's last night. Will there be commentary in Scruffys? Or anywhere?

There's usually commentary in Paddy McGuire's, there was anyway at the last match I watched there (Cork V Tipp a few weeks ago).

Cheers BM. Paddy's it is so. There'll be a good gang of Mayos around I'd say and a few Herron Chokers too  ;D

Yeah no suprises with the team - we have more scoring potential there with Dillon. I'm not a Gardiner fan so I don't think we will lose very much.

If the backs hold up we have a great chance. If they haven't improved from the league we will lose.

Thank God for the internet, lads in the usa,australia,uk,france and even galway are able to debate the game and decide where to watch it.
In Paris last sunday I decided to watch the munster final so trotted down to one "irish" bar, what were they showing? cricket and tennis and would not switch on the football even though the place was empty apart from a few eating outside.
Onto the next place and I was the only one in it, sorry, the tennis is on because our customers prefer that.
Final spot, car racing and cricket. I went back to the flat and had me dinner instead.
They say there are thousands of Irish in Paris, where do they watch or are they all artists and the like?

Delighted to see a scoring forward back in, however gardiner is great at picking up breaks and should feel aggrieved. Lets hope the other forwards, austie and moran i really mean, getting the scores they are put there to get.

Honours almost even in old rivalry that is still McHale and hearty

Mayo v Galway If the statistics are to be believed, Sunday's game is a foregone conclusion. It's Mayo's turn to take the honours. But derbies like this one rarely go according to the script, wriets Damian Cullen

AFTER LAST Sunday's enthralling clash between neighbours Kerry and Cork at Páirc Uí Chaoimh, it's perhaps even more obvious that, in modern times, rather than the traditional GAA derbies being keenly anticipated, many demand more unique pairings. After all, this is the era of the qualifiers, a county's second championship tie can be against a team from the other end of the island.

However, some of Gaelic football's greatest rivalries, at club and intercounty level, are, naturally, between neighbours - such as Armagh v Down and Dublin v Meath. It's match-ups between bordering areas that have provided the history, tension, controversies, determination on the part of players and spectators, fear of losing and moments of celebrations that are most remembered and valued.

One of the greatest of these battles takes place this weekend. Since they first clashed in the Connacht championship - in 1901 - there has existed a pure rivalry between Mayo and Galway.

It was in the late 1960s that some of their most famed encounters occurred. On July 17th, 1966, a Mattie McDonagh-led Galway met a Mick Ruane-led Mayo at McHale Park, Castlebar in the provincial final. At half-time, Mayo were two to the good, but faced a strong wind in front of 28,000 spectators in the second half.

Despite the gap increasing to five points early in the second period, Galway chipped away and, eventually, a Liam Salmon-fisted point in injury-time tipped the scales to Galway - 0-12 to 1-8.

The Irish Times report the day after began: "Even if Galway go on to win their third All-Ireland title in a row . . . they will not encounter a stiffer or more demanding test of strength than Mayo provided in this vibrant final at Castlebar yesterday."

Two months later Galway would appear in their fourth All-Ireland senior football final in a row - and claim a famous three-in-a-row.

The following year the All-Ireland champions hosted Mayo in the first round, with journalist Seán Rice writing he'd walk back to Castlebar from Galway if Mayo lost. Luckily for him, Mayo stopped Galway's bid for four All-Ireland titles in a row in its tracks - winning 3-13 to 1-8.

Back to McHale Park and the 1968 final. Galway emerged back on top - 2-10 to 2-9.

They were cruising midway through the second half - leading by seven. Mayo's comeback began in bizarre fashion with the home side winning a free near the sideline, 50 yards out. After some disagreement over who would take the free - with apparently no Mayo player anxious to step up - a reluctant Joe Langan took the free, which sailed directly to the back of the Galway net.

Thirty thousand spectators suddenly woke from their slumber. So too did the Mayo players, but despite kicking several points in quick succession, they couldn't fully wipe out the deficit.

Mayo and Galway met again in the 1969 decider, this time at Pearse Stadium. In front of 25,000 spectators, a dramatic, exciting game ended in stalemate. Mayo were the happier: they had got out of jail with Joe Corcoran pointing in the last minute to snatch the draw; the replay would be in Castlebar; and Galway had never beaten Mayo in a senior football championship replay.

That trend would continue, with Mayo winning by three points. Just a week later, Mayo would come up against Kerry in the All-Ireland semi-final, agonisingly losing by just a point - 0-14 to 1-10.

Fastforward to the 1990s, best remembered in Connacht football for two things - Leitrim's provincial triumph in 1994, and Galway's victory in the 1998 All-Ireland final - the first time in 32 years the Sam Maguire rested in the province. Along with those major feats, however, a private, localised battle was still raging.

In July 1995, Mayo and Galway met once again in the Connacht final. Expectations at Tuam were high, but Galway ran out 0-17 to 1-7 victors in a dour affair. However, those who watched the curtain-raiser, the minor final between the same teams, got their money's worth.

The Galway minors staged a late rally to snatch victory in a closely fought, exciting game. The comeback was led by Pádraic Joyce, who finished with five points, Michael Donnellan, who chipped in with three, and Derek Savage, who scored a late goal to add to his three earlier points and to seal the 2-14 to 2-11 win.

The home defence that day was marshalled by Tomás Meehan in the full-back line and John Divilly at centre back. Three years later, all five of those minor stars would star for their county in Croke Park in the All-Ireland senior football final against Kildare.

But that Sam Maguire journey by Galway almost never got going. The first round of the Connacht championship that year was against Mayo in Castlebar. In a wonderful game of free-flowing football - particularly in the opening half - John O'Mahony's Galway emerged with their first win over their rivals in Castlebar for 11 years. John Maughan's Mayo team - who had lined out in Croke Park five times in the previous two years - were shell-shocked.

What is perhaps most unique about the rivalry is just how balanced the results between the two have been. This Sunday will be the 80th championship clash between the western powers, with Galway claiming 37 victories, Mayo 36, and six meetings ending with no winner.

Mayo can right that imbalance on Sunday, as they can with the balance over the past 15 years, with the stats showing six wins for Galway and five for Mayo in 11 championship ties.

While there have been years of dominance by one or the other, in a kind of Munster rugby style, losing two games to their rivals is not tolerated - and certainly not in the same year.

In the NFL semi-final meeting at Castlebar in 2006, Galway won a bad-tempered affair by five points, a game which provided the back-drop to the teams' provincial decider date at the same venue. This time Mayo edged the game by one point on their run to All-Ireland final heartbreak against Kerry. Last year, the results were reversed, with Mayo beating Galway, again by a single point, in the league semi-final in Croke Park.

Back on home soil the following month, however, Galway exacted revenge in devastating fashion - winning the provincial first-round game, 2-10 to nine points.

Last April, Galway defeated Mayo in their league encounter at Castlebar, with once again just a single point between the sides at the final whistle. If the statistics are to be believed, therefore, Sunday's game is a foregone conclusion. It's Mayo's turn.

But, as was demonstrated in Páirc Uí Chaoimh last weekend, derbies often don't quite go according to plan.

Thats the team I expected to line out and I'm happy enough with it.

Just a couple of things to note. Yeah Gardiner will win some ball around the middle but we have Harte and Trevor in the half forward line as well both who will win their share of ball around there. Harte and Trevor also offer more going forward and both played better than Peader the last day. I don't think Peader can have that many complaints really, naturally he is an attacking wing back end of.

Also Dillon is named on the wing. Can we presume from that he'll play there with Harte in the centre? I hope he does I think that would suit both players better and Harte is much more able to match Blake (if fit) in the physical stakes.

very disapponited to see Gardiner dropped . hes as good or better defender than cunniffe and has ahell of a lot more going forward and im very worried about Boyle he showed nothing in any game ibe seen him play so far that he is worthy of a county jersey . he must be one hell of  a trainer.
Great to see dillon back but he  half forward line looks a bit imbalanced Harte will play whever he want as a natural midfielder Trevor will spend as much time near the may as galway goal so will dillion on his own be enough to hold the like. think we need campbell or kilcoyne in there?.

interesting image on the ClubMayo website of the lineouts for Sundayhttp://www.clubmayo.ie/ (http://www.clubmayo.ie/)  - gives a neat snapshot of the possible one-on-one markings...

Quote from: rosnarun on July 10, 2008, 11:47:03 AM
very disapponited to see Gardiner dropped .

Me too. Half the year playing midfield and half forward. breaks his jaw. another couple of months in the forwards, and finally dropped, just before the big game that the previous 9 months of training was all about.  Hopefully he'll get another shot before the year is out, preferrably at half back.

The team is fairly solid. I'd be a small bit worried about Conroy's ditribution. He favours the long ball on most occasions and unless its going in the general direction of andy moran, then we are by no means guaranteed of winning it. Boyle could be there for the taking in the corner as well. He will need to be very agressive in playing along side his direct oppenent.

Dillon will be needed to take a few scores for us. No doubt D Burke will hit Conor a few thumps in the first five minutes, which might unsettle Conor. If thats the case we haven't many natural point takers to pick up the slack. A goal or two might be wanted

Quote from: venter on July 10, 2008, 02:30:55 PM

Quote from: rosnarun on July 10, 2008, 11:47:03 AM
very disapponited to see Gardiner dropped .

Me too. Half the year playing midfield and half forward. breaks his jaw. another couple of months in the forwards, and finally dropped, just before the big game that the previous 9 months of training was all about.  Hopefully he'll get another shot before the year is out, preferrably at half back.

I suppose he could be counted as unlucky. I get the impression that he is not a natural defender and many will agree that defending is his weak point. Its also a change in the style of play that is seeing him dropped for this game. We will be using long balls into the forwards instead of the hand passing/running game we have tried in the past.

Quote from: venter on July 10, 2008, 02:30:55 PM
He favours the long ball on most occasions and unless its going in the general direction of andy moran, then we are by no means guaranteed of winning it.

The same andy moran that (got cleaned) was playing against Sligo? I wouldnt say that winning primary possession in the forwards rests totally on his shoulders.

Quote from: venter on July 10, 2008, 02:30:55 PM
Boyle could be there for the taking in the corner as well. He will need to be very agressive in playing along side his direct oppenent.
...
No doubt D Burke will hit Conor a few thumps in the first five minutes, which might unsettle Conor. If thats the case we haven't many natural point takers to pick up the slack. A goal or two might be wanted

A lot of people are mentioning the aggression Galway are expected to play with. I dont get it.
Are we making out that Mayo are soft and need to be prepared for this Galway aggression?
Is it not Mayo that should bring the pain? If anything its Mayo that should be the aggressors.

We are at home
We owe them one for last year (big time)
Its Galway (that should be motivation enough for JOM and the team)

As Brady says here: http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4445&Itemid=39
he will need to be caged in!
Thats the attitude we should be taking.

QuoteAs Brady says here: http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4445&Itemid=39
he will need to be caged in!

He looks like he came out of a zoo alright. ;D

Quote from: AbbeySider on July 10, 2008, 03:06:54 PM
The same andy moran that (got cleaned) was playing against Sligo? I wouldnt say that winning primary possession in the forwards rests totally on his shoulders.

Against Sligo, Ronan McGarrity and Tom Parsons had a huge monopoly on possession, so our forwards had plenty of ball coming in. If the supply is not so plentiful then we need to be winning as much of it as possible. Whatever you say about Andy, he is definitley our best man to win 50/50 ball.

Word is that this is the Galway team that will be announced tonight. Don't shoot the messenger if this turns out to be completely untrue. ;D

Paul Doherty
Gareth Bradshaw
Finian Hanley
Damien Burke
Gary Sice
Diarmuid Blake
Niall Coyne
Barry Cullinane
Niall Coleman
Nicky Joyce
Padraig Joyce
Cormac Bane
Matthew Clancy
Michael Meehan
Fiachra Breathnach

Quote from: mannix on July 10, 2008, 09:28:35 AM
Thank God for the internet, lads in the usa,australia,uk,france and even galway are able to debate the game and decide where to watch it.
In Paris last sunday I decided to watch the munster final so trotted down to one "irish" bar, what were they showing? cricket and tennis and would not switch on the football even though the place was empty apart from a few eating outside.
Onto the next place and I was the only one in it, sorry, the tennis is on because our customers prefer that.
Final spot, car racing and cricket. I went back to the flat and had me dinner instead.
They say there are thousands of Irish in Paris, where do they watch or are they all artists and the like?

Same thing happened me in Paris a few years ago. Those continental Irish bars are only there to snag English tourists who prefer Newcastle Brown Ale to a few pints of the local Chateau de Chablis.  :(

Won't be posting here until after the final. Hopefully the match will be a great game between the two big rivals, it's been a good while since we have seen one of those.

Prediction: Mayo by 3 points.

Quote from: An Fhairche Abu on July 10, 2008, 05:18:38 PM
Won't be posting here until after the final. Hopefully the match will be a great game between the two big rivals, it's been a good while since we have seen one of those.

Prediction: Mayo by 3 points.

just promise you'll keep the ball kicked out so our lads can get a bit of excercize  in before the quarter finals

If that is the Galway team then I would say the plan would be to flood the midfield area with Breathnach and Matthew Clancy and to leave Bane and Michael Meehan inside. I would say Bane would start on the basis that he played well when introduced the last day and he did score 2-1 against Mayo last year. He would worry the Mayo backline, does very little in general play but scores when he gets the ball.

I think a lot would depend on the quality of ball going through to the inside forwards. If Galway struggle at midfield then the ball in may not be great and Bane and Meehan need to be given the ball rather than capable of winning a 50-50 ball. It may be no harm to
introduce Conroy and Armstrong from the bench later on when the game becomes more open.

I would like to see Blake back as he would have the physical presence to take on Harte and stop the runs through the middle, I would be concerned about Sice and Coyne at half-backs and also about the ability of our corner backs if we are under pressure. We'll know if Bradshaw is a corner back or not on Sunday and Damien Burke could be in trouble with Mortimer too.

I would say the game depends on how well Galway compete at midfield and how wins the majority of the breaks in the middle. I would say if Galway can break even 40/60 in midfield then it will be close, otherwise Mayo should have enough.

If that is the Galway team then I would say the plan would be to flood the midfield area with Breathnach and Matthew Clancy and to leave Bane and Michael Meehan inside. I would say Bane would start on the basis that he played well when introduced the last day and he did score 2-1 against Mayo last year. He would worry the Mayo backline, does very little in general play but scores when he gets the ball.

I think a lot would depend on the quality of ball going through to the inside forwards. If Galway struggle at midfield then the ball in may not be great and Bane and Meehan need to be given the ball rather than capable of winning a 50-50 ball. It may be no harm to
introduce Conroy and Armstrong from the bench later on when the game becomes more open.

I would like to see Blake back as he would have the physical presence to take on Harte and stop the runs through the middle, I would be concerned about Sice and Coyne at half-backs and also about the ability of our corner backs if we are under pressure. We'll know if Bradshaw is a corner back or not on Sunday and Damien Burke could be in trouble with Mortimer too.

I would say the game depends on how well Galway compete at midfield and how wins the majority of the breaks in the middle. I would say if Galway can break even 40/60 in midfield then it will be close, otherwise Mayo should have enough.

one option gone and one returns?

from  DANIEL CAREY the mayo news

BARRY Moran has been ruled out of next Sunday's Connacht final after breaking a bone in his hand at Mayo training on Sunday morning. The Castlebar Mitchels attacker sustained the injury in the last five minutes of the weekend session, and will be wearing a cast for the next few weeks. Moran featured only sporadically in the National League and was not expected to start the provincial decider. But he was outstanding at full-forward against Cavan and Derry in last year's championship, and might well have seen action on his home pitch at some stage.
"He has been plagued by injury, really, because he had an ankle [problem] and then he had a tummy bug in the lead-up to the last game," Mayo manager John O'Mahony told The Mayo News last night (Monday). "But we just have to play through it. He's a fine young footballer and hopefully we can stay in the championship long enough to get the benefit of him."
There's better news on Alan Dillon, who featured in a challenge match against Fermanagh last Tuesday, which Mayo won comprehensively. O'Mahony will name his starting 15 for Sunday's game tomorrow (Wednesday) night, and the Ballintubber man is expected to be included in the half-forward line. The former All-Star missed the Connacht semi-final against Sligo having undergone minor surgery to treat a haemotoma in his hip, but has been declared fit to play.
Trevor Howley, who severely damaged his ankle ligaments in a challenge match against Meath in May, looks certain to be on the bench on Sunday. The Knockmore man has 'worked wonders' over the last few weeks in his bid to be fit, according to O'Mahony. "He has done a bit of running and played a bit of ball, so whether it has come too soon for him or not I don't know," said the manage

Quote from: myball22 on July 10, 2008, 05:40:21 PM
I would like to see Blake back as he would have the physical presence to take on Harte and stop the runs through the middle, I would be concerned about Sice and Coyne at half-backs and also about the ability of our corner backs if we are under pressure. We'll know if Bradshaw is a corner back or not on Sunday and Damien Burke could be in trouble with Mortimer too.

Well I don't think Damien Burke has been in particularly great form recently but he usually ties up Conor Mortimer pretty effectively. Then again if you are not winning ball in midfield no full-back line will be able to keep out their markers indefinitely.

QuoteA lot of people are mentioning the aggression Galway are expected to play with. I dont get it.
Are we making out that Mayo are soft and need to be prepared for this Galway aggression?
Is it not Mayo that should bring the pain? If anything its Mayo that should be the aggressors.

We should indeed bring this aggression, but Galway have been very good at bringing the aggression to the last few games between the 2 counties and not bringing the same aggression to other counties they play against.

Mayo people, ye talk some amount of bullshit! Does it ever stop coming from ye?

The Galway team have not been aggressive or physical since the early 90's.

If only players like K. Fitz, M. Comer, F. Hanley, G. Sice, N.Coyne, D. Burke, D. Meehan N. Joyce, F. Brathnanch, S. Armstrong, M. Clancy were actually more physical in the last few years then we might have won something.

Under Forde, We played negatively bringing the half-forward line way down the field but physical? No way, We simply dont have enough physical players. Of this current team, Only Cullinane, Coleman & Blake can be regarded as physical.

Quote from: Galforever on July 10, 2008, 08:21:05 PM
Mayo people, ye talk some amount of bullshit! Does it ever stop coming from ye?

The Galway team have not been aggressive or physical since the early 90's.

If only players like K. Fitz, M. Comer, F. Hanley, G. Sice, N.Coyne, D. Burke, D. Meehan N. Joyce, F. Brathnanch, S. Armstrong, M. Clancy were actually more physical in the last few years then we might have won something.

Under Forde, We played negatively bringing the half-forward line way down the field but physical? No way, We simply dont have enough physical players. Of this current team, Only Cullinane, Coleman & Blake can be regarded as physical.

no one said that galway were a physical team merley that they upped the physical side of their game under the impression that this would beat mayo sure in the fact that it was not in mayos game to any degree . It has be stated sweveral times by Mayo posters that they did not continue this Tactic against other teams . esp tjhose that might hit back. and the word cowardice was never mentioed so i dont know why your making such a big deal about that

In fairness Rosnarun there has been some bullshit spouted by a minority that Galway pushed the rulebook to the limit and that it was only through these physical methods that they could beat Mayo. For Galway supporters thats a red rag to a bull considering Galway would be traditionally considered one of the best attacking teams in the country and from a purists point of view the most attractive. Galway are well capable of beating Mayo through skillful means alone.

As for the argument that Galway dont seem as 'up for it' against other teams is this not to be expected? They are playing their local rivals. Of course Sligo or Westmeath dont provide the same motivational factor for Galway teams. I think Mayo should be looking at this as an internal problem rather than wondering why Galway are somewhat more physical against them. Why aren't Mayo more physical against Galway??

Seems like I heard right after all.

Galway Team to play Mayo

1 Paul Doherty   Tuam Stars 
2 Gareth Bradshaw   Maigh Cuilinn 
3 Finian Hanley   Salthill Knocknacarra 
4 Damien Burke   Corofin 
5 Niall Coyne   Carna Caiseal 
6 Diarmuid Blake   Milltown 
7 Gary Sice   Corofin 
8 Barry Cullinane   Claregalway 
9 Niall Coleman   Annaghdown 
10 Cormac Bane   Caherlistrane 
11 Padraig Joyce   Killererin Capt
12 Nicky Joyce   Killererin 
13 Matthew Clancy   Oughterard 
14 Michael Meehan   Caltra 
15 Fiachra Breathnach   Leitir Mor

I can understand why they have left Burke in. But dont see what Gary Sice has done to deserve being in ahead of Meehan or Mullahy.

Lydon had to be dropped after two very disappointing performances (he'll probably go the way of Val Feeney now) so we only really had Coleman & Cullinane in contention for midfield.

I cant see Bane starting at 10, He will probably swap with Breathnach.

Quote from: Galforever on July 10, 2008, 10:03:10 PM
I can understand why they have left Burke in. But dont see what Gary Sice has done to deserve being in ahead of Meehan or Mullahy.

Is Deccie not carrying a hamstring injury?

Dec Meehan is injured alright. Fiachra Breathnach still managing to hold his place at no 15, how is anybody's guess. Gary Sice was brutal against Leitrim but Darren wasn't much better so Sice is probably only just keeping him off the team. Great to see Blake back, big game for his first game this year though.

Blake is a big man for the big game and I think theres a much more solid look to spine of the defence. I presume Fitz only barely lost out on a place due to lack of match fitness - he would have been a certainty for one of the two corner back spots if fit you would have imagined. Sice or Mullahy was a toss-up really....probably went for Sice for that extra bit of physicality. Backline is as good as is available with Deccie's hamstring playing up.

Midfield is no surprise...the oinly two we have really. After seeing McGarrity's attempts at chin ups on Championship Throw-In id stick big bad Barry on him  ;)

The "Fiachra Breathnach Project" as someone called it previously continues.......that lad must be doing multiple decades of the Rosary or something  ::) Otherwise, as expected

Breathnach  ??? Seriously cant fathom how he is considered to be in the top 6 forwards in Galway  ???  Bradshaw hasn't done a lot wrong to date but he will get his fill of it Sunday and I still wouldnt consider him a corner back. Plenty of options on the bench though.  Delighted to see Blake back in the 6 jersey and I fully expect him to hit the ground running on Sunday.  

Quote from: GaillimhIarthair on July 10, 2008, 11:14:23 PM
Breathnach  ??? Seriously cant fathom how he is considered to be in the top 6 forwards in Galway

He isn't. I'd say he's not even in the top dozen let alone half dozen. I know he's a ex Mary's lad but this is getting ridiculous.

Having said all that I'd love it if he went out and had a stormer on Sunday but I don't see that happening. Even if he did poach a goal against Mayo in the league.

Chinups?
"Big barry" may not be a whole lot better at them.
Should be some crack watching galway, a handful of diehard fans and the rest will be Mayo.

Prediction Time:

Mayo 3-18
Galway 1-11

I'd be very disappointed with Fitzy not getting back into the team. He is the only corner back we have who is up to scratch.Burke is having a terrible year(though he actually did well on Mortimer in the league this year and also last year in the championship) while Bradshaw is totally untested at this level and has never really played any football at corner back at any level that I recall anyway.
To be honest I'm not convinced by Bradshaw at all.He has a big reputation going back to underage football with Mary's but anytime I have watched him at county minor or under 21 level I haven't been impressed at all.He is also very small for county football and God knows we have enough small lads on the panel as it is.
Blake coming back in is good news for us while I wouldn't have any problem with Coyne coming back in, though it was a toss up whether it would be for Sice or Mullaghy. Mullaghy was our best back in the league and is unlucky enough to be dropped.
Cullinane had to come in at midfield - Lydon isn't up to it full stop.
Bane deserves his place up front also.
Unless Breathnach is going to play a deep lying role, I can't understand his selection at all. He CANNOT play in the full forward line cos he won't score. He'll work hard in there but deliver no end product.It'll have to be Meehan and Bane or Nicky Joyce in a 2 man full forward line. Clancy will roam out the field - I'm sure Johnno will have a plan for that. Heaney will take Joyce, Higgins will move in on Meehan and Conroy will probably either follow Clancy or stay put as an extra defender in the full back line to cut off space for Meehan and Bane/Nicky.
A problem for Mayo is that only Higgins is a real man marker & comfortable playing in the full back line. Both Conroy & Boyle are more comfortable playig further out the field. When Howley is fully fit he will probably come into the reckoning for a full back line spot?

Jesus highorlow - we might be poor enough at the moment but I don't think we're in for a 13 point hiding alll the same!!

Quote from: highorlow on July 11, 2008, 12:09:56 AM
Prediction Time:

Mayo 3-18
Galway 1-11

Woah! Someone's confident!
I'll go for Mayo 1-13, Galway 2-9.

Quote from: mannix on July 10, 2008, 11:55:21 PM
Chinups?
"Big barry" may not be a whole lot better at them.
Should be some crack watching galway, a handful of diehard fans and the rest will be Mayo.

::)

Right now that we have the teams we can be a bit more precise with how we think the match ups will go.

Galway defence against the Mayo forward line is fairly straightforward imo.
I can see both sextets lining out as selected so you'll have the following

G Bradshaw    F Hanley     D Burke
A Moran         A O'Malley  C Mortimer

G Sice            D Blake     N Coyne
T Mortimer      P Harte    A Dillon

At midfield it'll probably be Cullinane v McGarrity and Coleman v Parsons.

The Galway forwards against the Mayo backs is a bit of a guessing game though. Will O'Mahony play Keith Higgins on Meehan or chance Conroy, giving Higgins license to roam with Clancy? Will Sammon put Nicky Joyce or Cormac Bane inside, presuming Fiachra Breathnach is brought out the field as the Galway lads rightly suggest he should be.
I think O'Mahony will gamble on Conroy, let Nallen use his experience on Breathnach around the middle and everything else will fall in from there.

So, for me, its gonna shape up like this

F Breathnach       P Joyce      N Joyce
J Nallen               D Heaney  T Cunniffe

M Clancy       M Meehan      C Bane
K Higgins      K Conroy        C Boyle

Personally I'd worry about Conroy but you never know. If he's struggling though its just a simple switch with Higgins. Big games needed from Boyle and Cunniffe because both Bane and N Joyce will struggle if they've good, tight men on them. If they get space though they can wreck havoc

Prediction


MAYO     1  12
galway        13

close game, stopping pj is half the battle and Mayo need omalley and someone else to start scoring a lot more, blonde mort is definetly a target for the rough tactics galway are know to use against Mayo recently.

Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on July 11, 2008, 12:37:52 AM
Right now that we have the teams we can be a bit more precise with how we think the match ups will go.

Galway defence against the Mayo forward line is fairly straightforward imo.
I can see both sextets lining out as selected so you'll have the following

G Bradshaw    F Hanley     D Burke
A Moran         A O'Malley  C Mortimer

G Sice            D Blake     N Coyne
T Mortimer      P Harte    A Dillon

At midfield it'll probably be Cullinane v McGarrity and Coleman v Parsons.

The Galway forwards against the Mayo backs is a bit of a guessing game though. Will O'Mahony play Keith Higgins on Meehan or chance Conroy, giving Higgins license to roam with Clancy? Will Sammon put Nicky Joyce or Cormac Bane inside, presuming Fiachra Breathnach is brought out the field as the Galway lads rightly suggest he should be.
I think O'Mahony will gamble on Conroy, let Nallen use his experience on Breathnach around the middle and everything else will fall in from there.

So, for me, its gonna shape up like this

F Breathnach       P Joyce      N Joyce
J Nallen               D Heaney  T Cunniffe

M Clancy       M Meehan      C Bane
K Higgins      K Conroy        C Boyle

Personally I'd worry about Conroy but you never know. If he's struggling though its just a simple switch with Higgins. Big games needed from Boyle and Cunniffe because both Bane and N Joyce will struggle if they've good, tight men on them. If they get space though they can wreck havoc

I'd agree with all that Sniper except I think Keith Higgins will be the man to watch Meehan. I watched the Galway/Leitrim match and one thing I noticed was Nicky Joyce constantly running from deep and supplying low ball into the full forward line. This will have to be cut out early on.

Quote from: Bod Mor on July 11, 2008, 12:56:46 AM

Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on July 11, 2008, 12:37:52 AM
Right now that we have the teams we can be a bit more precise with how we think the match ups will go.

Galway defence against the Mayo forward line is fairly straightforward imo.
I can see both sextets lining out as selected so you'll have the following

G Bradshaw    F Hanley     D Burke
A Moran         A O'Malley  C Mortimer

G Sice            D Blake     N Coyne
T Mortimer      P Harte    A Dillon

At midfield it'll probably be Cullinane v McGarrity and Coleman v Parsons.

The Galway forwards against the Mayo backs is a bit of a guessing game though. Will O'Mahony play Keith Higgins on Meehan or chance Conroy, giving Higgins license to roam with Clancy? Will Sammon put Nicky Joyce or Cormac Bane inside, presuming Fiachra Breathnach is brought out the field as the Galway lads rightly suggest he should be.
I think O'Mahony will gamble on Conroy, let Nallen use his experience on Breathnach around the middle and everything else will fall in from there.

So, for me, its gonna shape up like this

F Breathnach       P Joyce      N Joyce
J Nallen               D Heaney  T Cunniffe

M Clancy       M Meehan      C Bane
K Higgins      K Conroy        C Boyle

Personally I'd worry about Conroy but you never know. If he's struggling though its just a simple switch with Higgins. Big games needed from Boyle and Cunniffe because both Bane and N Joyce will struggle if they've good, tight men on them. If they get space though they can wreck havoc

I'd agree with all that Sniper except I think Keith Higgins will be the man to watch Meehan. I watched the Galway/Leitrim match and one thing I noticed was Nicky Joyce constantly running from deep and supplying low ball into the full forward line. This will have to be cut out early on.

I'd have Higgins on Meehan myself too. But I think JOM may just go for this option. Time will tell I suppose.
I know what you mean regarding Nicky Joyce. Tom Cunniffe has the pace for him but willl he be tight enough? I hope so.
I know a lot of posters have said about how Damien Burke has the hex over Conor Mort but I really think Mortimer will shine on Sunday. I feel he's hitting very good form this season and this, combined with Burke's poor form, will make him the match winner in my opinion

I have a feeling for a draw as I said during the week. But looking at it coldly -

If Mayo stop Galway scoring goals they will win. If Galway score 2 or more we will be well beaten.

Logic says that Colm Boyle isn't good enough, that James Nallen has been on a downward spiral for 4 seasons now, that Cullinane might out-muscle our midfield, that Andy Moran and Austin O'Malley just won't score enough. It also says that Galway have 6 scoring forwards - 4 have scored championship goals against Mayo, Breathnach scored one in the league, and Nickey Joyce scored big last year, Burke has done well against Mortimer who is our main scoring option.

Prediction - Galway 2-12   Mayo 1-11

Quote from: Barney on July 11, 2008, 07:57:40 AM
I have a feeling for a draw as I said during the week. But looking at it coldly -

If Mayo stop Galway scoring goals they will win. If Galway score 2 or more we will be well beaten.

Logic says that Colm Boyle isn't good enough, that James Nallen has been on a downward spiral for 4 seasons now, that Cullinane might out-muscle our midfield, that Andy Moran and Austin O'Malley just won't score enough. It also says that Galway have 6 scoring forwards - 4 have scored championship goals against Mayo, Breathnach scored one in the league, and Nickey Joyce scored big last year, Burke has done well against Mortimer who is our main scoring option.

Prediction - Galway 2-12   Mayo 1-11

Even if Breathnach scored a goal in the league, I don't think he could fit into the typical bracket of a scoring forward Barney. I know the jury will remain out with Austy until he becomes consistent in championship but I think people are being veyr quick to knock Andy Moran - he had one poor game against Sligo (against a good opponent I might add) but I think he could really hurt Bradshaw the next day.
Add in what I said in an earlier post about Conor Mort, Dillon being back and the possibilty of Harte and Trevor chipping in and I think we've plenty of good options up front.

I think Dillon could have a huge game to play.

I don't think people are being hard on Moran - for the amount of ball he wins what does he do it. He rarely passes and usually (and I hate this term copyright of T Lyons) turns over possession. That being said I agree RnG - he will give Bradshaw a hard time and I think he may be a good bet for MoM if we win.

Quote from: highorlow on July 11, 2008, 12:09:56 AM
Prediction Time:

Mayo 3-18
Galway 1-11

Must have done a lot of shooting practice since the Sligo match if your expecting to chalk up 21 scores  ;)

Quote from: mannix on July 11, 2008, 12:47:07 AM
Prediction


MAYO     1  12
galway        13

close game, stopping pj is half the battle and Mayo need omalley and someone else to start scoring a lot more, blonde mort is definetly a target for the rough tactics galway are know to use against Mayo recently.

Would ya ever cut out the crying about rough house tactics. "Super Mort" has been known to go missing in games of his own volition......he doesnt need to be roughed up that to happen. Just ask Tom O'Sullivan  ::)
Provide an example of where he was on the receiving end of any rough house tactics from any Galway player......

I agree that Andy Moran could well bve man of the match if mayo win as he is one of our real match winners which is why the performance against sligo was so disappointing after having been probably our best player for the league
Though  i  fear Boyle could make an all-star out of Bane or Nicky joyce i'm still hold ing out the hope that i'm as wrong about him as i was tom parsons as i did not believe him to be ready before the sligo game. and would still have some nigglying doubts on that score but think out 3 man midfield should handle things well enough

from an outside perspective.
mayo have a clear advantage at midfield.
galway have a clear advantage up front in the sense that the galway defence is better on paper than mayo's.

If Galway break 50/50 at midfield i think they will win but if mayo can come out on top there they may win out. the best way to protect a suspect defence is with a good midfield. if the galway forwards get enough ball they could run the mayo defence ragged.

Good to see Diarmuid Blake back in championship football. he's always been a quality player. Obviously dec meehan must be injured?
is armstrong injured too?

Quote from: INDIANA on July 11, 2008, 10:32:12 AM
from an outside perspective.
mayo have a clear advantage at midfield.
galway have a clear advantage up front in the sense that the galway defence is better on paper than mayo's.

If Galway break 50/50 at midfield i think they will win but if mayo can come out on top there they may win out. the best way to protect a suspect defence is with a good midfield. if the galway forwards get enough ball they could run the mayo defence ragged.

I don't necessarily see Galway as having a better defence. Bradshaw is unproven, Burke has been poor this season and Blake is coming back from a long time out so might not be match fit. I really worry about our defence. Particularly when you consider the amount of scorable frees we conceded to Leitrim the last day, and the chances Roscommon were afforded.
At midfield, I see Breathnach coming back to help out but I still think this is a real problem area for Galway. Bergin's return can't come soon enough, although like Blake, he'll need time to prove match fit.
I'd have Nicky inside next to Meehan as when he plays in the half-forwards he has an annoying tendency to solo into blind alleys. At least further up the posts will come into view soon enough.

I would also say Trevor Mortimer could do well on Sice too but if Galway are to win people like Matthew Clancy and Cormac Bane will need to play well aswell as Cullinane in midfield.

this is an unusual connacht final mayo supporters not knowing what to expect not feeling too confident and from reading the galway posters here ye have yer own doubts about yer team or are ye just been cagey ;)

Given that Galway team heres how I'd expect our backs to line out.

Breathnach                PJ              NJoyce
Conroy                  Heaney           Cuniffe


Bane                    Meehan           Clancy
Nallen                   Higgins            Boyle


I don't see any reason to not have Higgins and Heaney do a job on Joyce and Meehan.  Breathnach is big and will roam out around midfield and if the Sligo game is anything to go by thats exactly the type of game Johnno wants Conroy to play. I don't think Nallen has the legs to run after Clancy all day and won't want to get turned out the field so he'll drop back to take Bane.
Now all this means either Boyle or Cunniffe will take Clancy I don't think it makes that much difference as either one plays better out the field and both can run. Either way whoever takes Clancy has to have a big game.


I'm relatively confident about Sunday we should have the better midfield. People go on about Galway getting physical there but really only Cullinane will and he's a bit awkward and with a picky ref he could end up on a yellow lively enough. If we win midfield we will win.

On our forwards they are good enough. Mort whether from frees or play should tap over 5 or 6 points as is his average against Galway. After that we'd be looking for another 1-7 or 1-8 from 5 players which I think we should manage. People are way to quick to get on Andy Morans back. He wins alot of ball and fair enough he mightn't use it the best but no one else would even win the ball to lose it so he stays. Also he's our best chance of a goal in the FF line.

Prediction
Mayo 1 - 14
Galway 2 - 9

Quote from: the Deel Rover on July 11, 2008, 11:08:53 AM
this is an unusual connacht final mayo supporters not knowing what to expect not feeling too confident and from reading the galway posters here ye have yer own doubts about yer team or are ye just been cagey ;)

I think you've hit the nail on the head there Deel. Both sets of supporters would have doubts about their respective teams. I think we are a fairly lightweight team and our forwards can go missing against a tight marking defence. Our defence (fb line in particular) is there for the taking. I think Hanley will be okay but I'm having nightmares about our corner backs. I don't think either is up to it and Kieran Fitz should be in there. He had been playing quite well up to his injury a while back and has generally done well against Mayo. In fairness so has Burke but he is having an absolute nightmare of a season - even at club level his form has been poor. He also gives away so many frees he can be a liability and is never far away from a double-yellow card situation - not unlike Coleman. I think ye could make serious inroads in our full back line this time around.

The only thing that gives me hope is that I believe only one of ye're full back line is really a good man marker - that being Keith Higgins who is a super player.
Conroy & Boyle are both more comfortable further out the field and if we had 2 decent corner forwards in there we could do damage. The problem for us of course is that Galway play a 2 man full forward line with Matt Clancy going deep. This will play into Mayo's hands I think as it means one of Boyle/Conroy will be taken away from the goal area and their weakness won't be properly exploited. A fully fit Armstrong and Nicky Joyce in the 2 corners would test these 2 lads to the limit. I am assuming here that Higgins will be brought over on Meehan. I hope not from a Galway point of view, as I think Meehan could take Conroy to the cleaners.

Usually Joyce and meehan are held by Mayo but players like matthew clancy and cormac bane last year do well so for Galway to win some of the "lesser lights" will have to put in a big performance but the midfield is crucial.

If we compete there, then we have a great chance!!

Quote from: the Deel Rover on July 11, 2008, 11:08:53 AM
this is an unusual connacht final mayo supporters not knowing what to expect not feeling too confident and from reading the galway posters here ye have yer own doubts about yer team or are ye just been cagey ;)

A lot of doubts on both sides it seems to be sure Deel.  Galways seem to be the following with the majority of posters -

Bradshaw - not a naturnal corner back and Andy Moran could clean him if on form and getting a decent supply of ball
Burke - in a poor vein of form at the moment
Blake - great to have him back from injury but seriously lacking match practice
Midfield - our achilles heel all year, huge games required from Barry and Niall
Breathnach - dont think even Mulder and Scully could figure this one out :-\

Looking forward to it, but not hugely confident.  Alot resting on our performance in the middle third.  May need a few settlers in Mick Byrnes before hand  :P

Quote from: highorlow on July 11, 2008, 12:09:56 AM
Mayo 3-18
Galway 1-11

Thats confidence for you highorlow !!  ;)  :D  :D

I dont think Mayo have scored a goal against Galway in the last 5 championship games. If we are lucky I feel we might sneak one this time. I can see major problems with our own full back line so I fear that Galway are good for at least two.
If we can hold Joyce and Meehan and control mid-field some what I think that we may have enough with home advantage. But if Galway crowd the middle and win the 50-50 breaks we could be in trouble. We are cancelling each other out in a lot of respects. Galway backs may be giving away more frees which is where I think Mayo pick up scores.
It will be close. I think it will be a draw!

Mayo 1-12
Galway 2-9 

7-1 with PaddyPower for the draw! (good bet)  ;D

Quote from: venter on July 10, 2008, 02:30:55 PM

Quote from: rosnarun on July 10, 2008, 11:47:03 AM
very disapponited to see Gardiner dropped .

Me too. Half the year playing midfield and half forward. breaks his jaw. another couple of months in the forwards, and finally dropped, just before the big game that the previous 9 months of training was all about.  Hopefully he'll get another shot before the year is out, preferrably at half back.

I don't see it as much of a surprise that Gardiner is gone really, Dillon had to come back in and it was always going to be Gardiner rather than T Mort or Harte. The problem with Gardiner is that while he's a good footballer, he's not a good enough defensively (regardless of what he offers going forward) for intercounty level and yet he's not good enough to play half forward either as we have better ball-winners there (i.e. Harte/Mort)

Will be very tight. Hopefully talk of Burke having a bad year will mean Mort will finally be able to have a really good game on him.

Mayo by one or two, possilbly after a replay

rte.ie are tipping Galway, that surely guarantees victory for us!!!!!

Did anyone else see the article on the HoganStand Mayo page about McDonald earlier today?
It was taken down again.

Basically it took quotes from McDonalds interview in MAY and mashed them together and posted it on the main Mayo page.
The whole thing was completely out of context. But they tried to make it look like McDonald had said all of this yesterday.

I wasnt long registering and contacting the HoganStand telling them to stop shit stirring a few days before the Conaught final.
It wasnt fair on the players or management. Aad it wasnt fair on McD because the article mad it look like he was stirring it.

How did it appear in the first place? Looks like someone had it in for JOM and co.
Idiots.

Quote from: AbbeySider on July 11, 2008, 03:46:06 PM
Did anyone else see the article on the HoganStand Mayo page about McDonald earlier today?
It was taken down again.

Basically it took quotes from McDonalds interview in MAY and mashed them together and posted it on the main Mayo page.
The whole thing was completely out of context. But they tried to make it look like McDonald had said all of this yesterday.

I wasnt long registering and contacting the HoganStand telling them to stop shit stirring a few days before the Conaught final.
It wasnt fair on the players or management. Aad it wasnt fair on McD because the article mad it look like he was stirring it.

How did it appear in the first place? Looks like someone had it in for JOM and co.
Idiots.

Poor form on the part of the Hoganstand if thats the type of shite they are now resorting to in order to up the ante prior to a provincial final. Fair play for contacting them but you shouldnt be straying over there anyway Abbeysider  ;)

Quote from: AbbeySider on July 11, 2008, 03:46:06 PM
Did anyone else see the article on the HoganStand Mayo page about McDonald earlier today?
It was taken down again.

Basically it took quotes from McDonalds interview in MAY and mashed them together and posted it on the main Mayo page.
The whole thing was completely out of context. But they tried to make it look like McDonald had said all of this yesterday.

I wasnt long registering and contacting the HoganStand telling them to stop shit stirring a few days before the Conaught final.
It wasnt fair on the players or management. Aad it wasnt fair on McD because the article mad it look like he was stirring it.

How did it appear in the first place? Looks like someone had it in for JOM and co.
Idiots.

fair play Abbeysider afull stuff altogether funny thing is some people actually thought Mc made those comments today ??? As you said it wasn't fair on either party

Quote from: AbbeySider on July 11, 2008, 03:46:06 PM
Did anyone else see the article on the HoganStand Mayo page about McDonald earlier today?
It was taken down again.

Basically it took quotes from McDonalds interview in MAY and mashed them together and posted it on the main Mayo page.
The whole thing was completely out of context. But they tried to make it look like McDonald had said all of this yesterday.

I wasnt long registering and contacting the HoganStand telling them to stop shit stirring a few days before the Conaught final.
It wasnt fair on the players or management. Aad it wasnt fair on McD because the article mad it look like he was stirring it.

How did it appear in the first place? Looks like someone had it in for JOM and co.
Idiots.

Fair play to you Abbeysider!  There are always a few things like that that annoy me about that site.  You have inspired me to do something about it the next time it occurs instead of giving out about it!

Well it seems like a big Mayo crowd will be attending, I have heard of quite a few today that are going and they normally never bother with it. Any idea what the galway attendance will be like?
Should be a cracker, I am hoping that some bar in Paris will show it or else its mad wesht and my imagination.

Looking forward to it, hooking the lap top up to the TV and Hoping Setanta stays up for the whole game. The Yankee neighbor is putting his Mayo flag up then coming over I can hear it now "Go Mayoooo" ;D ;D

Quote from: mannix on July 11, 2008, 09:56:01 PM
Well it seems like a big Mayo crowd will be attending, I have heard of quite a few today that are going and they normally never bother with it. Any idea what the galway attendance will be like?
Should be a cracker, I am hoping that some bar in Paris will show it or else its mad wesht and my imagination.

The James Joyce pub in Porte Maillot shows all the GAA games as far as I know.

Zulu, of course!  thanks a million.

There's a nice interview with Ronan McGarrity in the Indo this morning: http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/mcgarrity-hoping-to-leave-baggage-behind-as-mayo-look-to-lift-57-years-of-allireland-pain-1431684.html

Ironic, as well, of course. McGarrity is talking down hoodoos and all this crack, and Hogan is talking them up for all they're worth. Journalism, you know.

Great interview - would be a great acheivement for Ronan to follow in Jimmy Brownes foot steps and hoist the Nestor on Sunday, he's got a great attitude towards the 'hoodoo' nonsense.

First very good interview done with McGarrity since his illness, a few bits there about his time in America I wasn't aware of either

Tom Humphries is bemoaning the standard of Connacht football today, and hoping that Galway can somehow save the west:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2008/0712/1215787862171.html

Words fail me.  :-\

Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on July 12, 2008, 10:28:15 AM
Tom Humphries is bemoaning the standard of Connacht football today, and hoping that Galway can somehow save the west:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2008/0712/1215787862171.html

Words fail me.  :-\

I am beginning to bemoan the standard of jounaliism on GAA topics. Maybe needs a few new faces. In this decade Galway have won an AI (no Leinster  team has won an AI), lastt wo minor AIs have gone to Connacht and both Galway and Mayo have won U21 AIs. Alll in all not a bad return to the province in proportion to its size.


Still journalists trot out the same old cliched stuff before games. I suppose the need to get the job done and running up to a deadline dust down some similar blather that was trotted out before,  Humphries is not alone in this.l

As to the game have a feeling that Mayo will win with a performance that will have people talking about them as genuine AI contendors (I know most Mayo supporters will love this). Predicting a score is something Im not to good at but I will go for 2-14 to 1-11

Brilliant article by Humphries - really talks up Galway and doesn't give Mayo a prayer (well they hardly get a mention). That only adds to the spice of it all - not that it needs any more to be added - but certainly any galway player/management reading that puts the weight of recent history heavily on them. Put as we all know history is of no use to them tomorrow. Jonno will ahve to put that article onto the wall in the dressing room should they need any more motivation to kick their ass....! C'MON MAYOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...!!!!!!

Someone should tell Humphries that there are 2 teams playing on sunday. HE spends a long time going on about the U21 teams of galway and dublin but no mention of the players Mayo have brought through over the past 2 years from the 21's. Although listening to some on this site id be expecting Tom to get canonised

Humphries latest offering is classic space filler material.
Honestly, if you read through it carefully you'll find nothing of note to disagree with, or to necessarily agree with either.
Sure, if Galway unexpectedly to life tomorrow and, against all known form, proceed to give Mayo the mother of all wallopings, they could light up the season ahead. Then again, they might not.
Humphries gives very little evidence of the former happening. Indeed if you take 2002 as the starting point, he gives us plenty of examples where Galway have come up short in the interim.
Consistency, going by Humphries' account, is hardly the word you'd associate with them.
This season they routed Roscommon, a team in such internal turmoil that they'd manage to finish second if they were the only side on the field.
They conceded 1-13 to Leitrim and were damn lucky to overcome them. Based on this then, Humphries sees prospects of them going all the way.
He is very patronising when he bothers to get a word in about Mayo's chances and dismisses them with:
Mayo? Even with O'Mahony back home directing the production can they shake themselves of the curse which paralyses them every time they hit a well-lit stage?
That happened twice.
Other times, Mayo were consistently bad but they were at least consistent.
Not so Galway; Humphries has obligingly charted their ups and downs since 2002 and their fans must be getting dizzy by now.
No offence to Galway fans, but I'd need more than Humphries' take on matters before I'd start planning celebrations for late September.

I think Humphries is much more positive about Galway's chances than any Galway supporters I know. I find it hard to call Sunday. Last May I said Galway would win by a minimum five points because after the League Semi-Final there was a huge performance in them along with the venue and the O'Mahony factor. Its tougher this time. The general view now is that Mayo are favourites considering the vast majority of pundits are siding with them.

I think Galway are undoubtedly a better, more comfortable and confident side than last year, a big improvement. Can we say the same about Mayo? Im not saying they haven't improved its that they are unproven. They may come out and blow Galway away but I dont think so...we dont know how their defence will hold up but they wont be cleaned out. Is Parsons better than Brady? I think Galway will hold their own at midfield as Cullinane will win his fair share of possession while Coleman consistently raises his game for Mayo. A sending off could be our downfall it may well happen.

As said here by many a Mayo poster here Andy Moran could be the matchwinner, Bradshaw, as promising a footballer he is, is no corner back. Be surprised if we dont see Fitzgerald by half-time.

Also dont forget, Meehan full forward is a different proposition to Meehan corner forward...a lot harder to mark. Higgins is a class act and I not writing him off but id expect much more from Meehan on Sunday.

On the basis that I dont know what to expect from Mayo, while reasonably assured of what Galway will bring to the table il go for a Galway victory.

Is it not time for Humphries and the rest to start addressing the problems of Leinster football where no football All Ireland has been won since .........???
As for the CF - It's always a big risk predicting a win for Mayo so I'll sit on the fence and say whoever performs on the day will win.
I'm of course more interested in the Minor Final which like 2006 will have an unreal feel about it by being in Castlebar at 11.30 for a game.
I'm nervous and hopeful .

Quote from: Lar Naparka on July 12, 2008, 11:55:29 AM
He is very patronising when he bothers to get a word in about Mayo's chances and dismisses them with:
Mayo? Even with O'Mahony back home directing the production can they shake themselves of the curse which paralyses them every time they hit a well-lit stage?
That happened twice.

I think TH is under-estimating Johnno's ability to get Mayo footballs feet on the ground & get them psychologically right for the well-lit stage.

Mayo folk like their footballers to be mercurial, but that approach hasn't been too solid when the stakes were highest.

Johnno has already grounded expectations to a realistic level, from which a realistic AI challenge can be built one game at a time - that's a mini-miracle in itself.

When he lead Mayo to the '89 final, we saw one of the best games in years & it was far from paralyzed ye were that day.

TH could be well off the mark with his comments above, imho, but time will tell that I suppose.

Couldn't be arsed reading the article by Humphries. Mayo to win tomorrow if Joyce is stopped, midfield performs and fullback line can somehow keep Galway's forwards to a low score which I imagine will be very hard done. Any of ye hear about the bebo site that wants all Mayo fans to be gathered at the scoreboard end to start a few chants?? ::) I hope the weather's good and we win. PS, if Humphries was any good, he'd do well to remember that every year is different.

Tom Humphries was on the ball with this : 

"If there was a gasp of barely suppressed disappointment in Leinster when Wexford reached another hurling decider wherein they would be swatted by Kilkenny, there is a limited appetite for investing emotionally again in Mayo among a footballing public who have had their hearts broken too many times."


So true. It's like watching a recovering alcoholic hit the bottle again. What a staggering work of hearbreaking heartbrokenness has been the story of Mayo football over the last 12 years.  4 all-Irelands lost - even Lehman Brothers investment banking had a few good years before it all went tits up.

I think another Mayo run this year is not on. Let's see who wins tomorow but I think galway are a better long term bet. What Mayo need as they say in India is a long period of deep introspection.  There is no reason why any county should lose 4 all-Irelands on the trot.  It is not possible for alll counties to achieve this so what exactly is wrong in Mayo ? 

 

Quote from: seafoid on July 12, 2008, 07:02:18 PM
Tom Humphries was on the ball with this : 

"If there was a gasp of barely suppressed disappointment in Leinster when Wexford reached another hurling decider wherein they would be swatted by Kilkenny, there is a limited appetite for investing emotionally again in Mayo among a footballing public who have had their hearts broken too many times."


So true. It's like watching a recovering alcoholic hit the bottle again. What a staggering work of hearbreaking heartbrokenness has been the story of Mayo football over the last 12 years.  4 all-Irelands lost - even Lehman Brothers investment banking had a few good years before it all went tits up.

I think another Mayo run this year is not on. Let's see who wins tomorow but I think galway are a better long term bet. What Mayo need as they say in India is a long period of deep introspection.  There is no reason why any county should lose 4 all-Irelands on the trot.  It is not possible for alll counties to achieve this so what exactly is wrong in Mayo ? 

 

There is nothing wrong with us, we keep plugging away every year and are the eternal optimists each summer. Why the feck should we throw in the towel...what part of India are you in anyway?

Mayo written off as usual, good reason I suppose with the calamities produced in the last 2 finals. However JOM has good reputation behind him and has some good players so its unwise to write them off just because of history.
Every dog has his day and I firmly believe Mayo will have their day very soon.

You're right FL/Mayo, the only thing that is wrong is that the players kicked it away in 97 and the ref sent of the wrong man in 96. The last 2 finals Mayo were in were terrible alright but so was the final last year.

QuoteThere is no reason why any county should lose 4 all-Irelands on the trot

Galway tried hard to do it losing three in four years - 71, 73 and 74!!! Throw in 83 versus 12 man Dublin and they should know all about the need for "deep introspection"  :D

Quote from: seafoid on July 12, 2008, 07:02:18 PM

What Mayo need as they say in India is a long period of deep introspection.  There is no reason why any county should lose 4 all-Irelands on the trot.  It is not possible for alll counties to achieve this so what exactly is wrong in Mayo ? 
 

Seafoid by name...  ;D

Ah, no go easy on seafoid, he's been one of the better ones for trying to figure out what was wrong with Mayo back in 04 and in 06 as well. He usually wishes us well in the AIFs. (Well he did in 04 anyway.

TatlerJack, we were only pointing out from experience. We are 4 loses on the hurling front as well. 32 years is long enough to be walking the desert alone. not to mention 57.....we've been there too.


Welcome back Seafoid. Its been a long time.

FL/Mayo - I am in Bombay at the moment.

The Mayo story is heartbreaking. I saw a thing there recently where the last Kerry manager Jack O'Connor?  is supposed to have gone into the Mayo dressingroom after the 06 final to say Kerry were more deserving as they had suffered so much after losing to Tyrone the previous year. The arrogance ! Nobody suffers more than Mayo fans.


At least with the Galway hurlers you know the county board couldn't give a shite as long as the county championship is run on time before mid December.   


May the best team win. I reckon being in Ballina or Castlebar on the Monday after the all-Ireland, whenever it does come will be an unstoppable expression of emotion up there with the best of them.   

Mayo back line in trouble already. They need to settle, luckey to be still level.

pretty brutal sfuff.

mayo's backs bad.

Trevor gone, Mayos best plyer, hamstring again I bet

does p joyce need 5 mins every time he is "injured" . sickens my hole. get off the field

GAlway hungrier, bigger and better at the moment. Mayo look very unorganised.

For feck sakes Goal for Galway. Seven down 29 minutes gone we are in big trouble.

What exactly can the linesman have seen Clancy do that he was able to report but wasn't a red card? I don't understand.

Putrid first half.

aiden higgins has been mayo's best player since he came on.

The changes that Johnno made seem to be making a differance so far, Mayo seem more settled. Harte is Mayos best player so far but that would not be hard. Galway seemed to want it more at least in the first half their forwards look dangerous and the Mayo back line at the start looked very bad.

Quote from: joemamas on July 13, 2008, 02:42:53 PM
aiden higgins has been mayo's best player since he came on.

Agreed Higgins doing well.

Agree Hardy awful game.

More bite to the 2nd half Mayo, this game is not beyond their winning by any means yet.

time for mcgarrity to step up 10 mins left

Not if we have billy joe!!!

great second half with some great points taken

looks like the back door....

Very enjoyable second half. Well done Coldrick.

Not the end of the world, we have just added an extra game to the campaign..... it will take Galway 3 more games to win the All Ireland and us 4....

Good game and good result for both teams. Mayo's second half performance will give them a lot of momentum going into the qualifiers - could still see them going further than Galway. When Galway were good they looked very good but the second half mid field collapse raises doubts. Meehan again a disappointment while outside of the goal he scored Breatnach did little while Nicky Joyce faded after a bright enough opening 15 mins. For Mayo O'Malley and Moran were very disappointing and while Kilcoyne scored his goal well he should have taken a point when he had a later chance - a stage when a score was vital to Mayo. Conor Mortimer also disappointed - Trevor going off was a big loss as was Clancy for Galway.

Must make some tea and watch the hurling now - tough day!!

Moran was better when he went out the field, O'Malley was a huge disappointment as were Conroy and Boyle. Gardner and Higgins played well and made a big difference. Mc Garrity was OK in the middle but Parsons seemed out of his depth. Conor Mort was so so, Dillon and Harte were the best for Mayo IMO. Very disappointed for Trevor he is a great player if he could just keep the hamstrings in shape.
Galway were awful at midfield in the second half, Joyce with his experiance is the key to them going further, he seemed to go out of the game after picking up an injury at the end of the first half but came back well near the end when it counted.

Heres how the back door looks lads.....

Round 1 Qualifiers (8 Games)

19 Jul 2008 Tipperary 3:00 Westmeath Ardfinnan  
19 Jul 2008 Monaghan 3:00 Derry Clones  
19 Jul 2008 Donegal 5:00 Roscommon Ballybofey  
19 Jul 2008 Limerick 7:00 Meath Gaelic Grounds  
19 Jul 2008 Longford 7:00 Laois Pearse Park  
19 Jul 2008 Kildare 7:00 Cavan Newbridge  
19 Jul 2008 Offaly 7:00 Down Tullamore  
19 Jul 2008 Louth 7:00 Tyrone Drogheda

Round 2 Qualifiers (4 Games)
26/07/08
Winners from above play eachother.

Round 3 Qualifiers  02,03,04/08/08 (4 Games)
Mayo v Winner from above
Kerry v Winner from above
Leinster runner-up v Winner from above
Ulster runner-up v Winner from above

Quarter Final 09+10/08/08
Cork v Winner from above
Galway v Winner from above
Leinster Winner v winner from above
Ulster Winner v winner from above

Semi's 24/08/08

Final 21/09/08

At least we cant get Kerry in the Quarters.....

I thought moran had a great second half. I also believe that billie joe's( who had a great game) miss was crucial as it would have put Mayo two up at a time when they were well on top.

O' Malley did not win or seem capable of winning a 50/50 ball all day. This I feel is as important as the game itself as it now means that Mayo have no ariel threat, once again, in their full forward line, and therefore need to revert back to a running game.

McGarrity was dissapointing, jesus when I read the big write up in the indo, it reminded me of McHale or Brady (both Media hounds). Why not wait until the season is over or do it before the season starts. Parson did well enough for his first real big game, appeared to be shagged at end of the game. Pat Harte tried very hard, needs to toughen up a bit, as he seemed prone to lying down quiet a bit especially in the first half.

The more I watch David Heaney, (who has been a great servant to mayo, today was his 99th game), the more I believe that the only role he can now play would be as an extra man if the other team are reduced to 14. Marking ability is non existant. Nallen was steady. Cuniffe was ok, too young to be overly critical.

Galway won, and good luck to them, they seemed to be very disjointed in the second half, they are a decent team, who as usual probably had their best performance of the year against Mayo. difficult to see them progressing, people were raving about P JOYCE, If I was being marked like him , I would have had a good game myself. He does not have the pace at this stage of a great career. His pissing, moaning, lying down for an extended time every time he gets a knock bugs the piss out of me. If I was the ref I would tell him to get up to fu*k. Galway probably will really struggle against a team that has a proven/hardened midfield, McGarrity does rank in the phyiscal stakes, and did not take a whole lot out of his opponents. In addition their half forward line is poor, when you consider that Aiden Higgins and Peadar Gardiner, both the wrong side of 30, pretty much dominated thier wing forwards when they came on.

Do not envy JOM at this juncture. For Mayo to get better they need to up their physical play a la Billie joe, especially in thier backline.He is not afraid to commit himself.Over the course of 80 mins, this does take its toll on opposing players. Lokk at Dublin V westmeath for an example, Dessie Dolan was knocked about quiet a bit some fair some unfair, but by the last 15 mins he was bollocksed. It is totally unrealistic to expect this phyisical element to happen overnight, however JOM and co, need to identify players with a phyiscal presence, so that when they do end their tenure, they will at worst have left a foundation. As it stands four of Mayo's finishing backline were north of 30. Not sure if Howley is answer, hope I'm wrong on that one.

On to the qualifiers, not very hopeful.

think your comments about Joyce are out of order. If Mayo had a player with 50% of his talent you'd have an all-reland. A truly magnificent Gaelic Footballer who was exceptional today. What Galway are going to do when he's gone, God knows. Really enjoyed the second half, neither team will be at the business end of the all-ireland but the key difference was that Galway were more economical. But Galway's midfield problems will cost them any chance of getting near an all-ireland.

joemamas comments about Joyce are not out of order, he was not marked when he got on the ball today and that was the difference. Mayo had to work harder and had more passes to get their scores. Really disappointed with the way we lost it after going 1 up.

I have to say that management will have a lot of blame to take. Why the hell didn't they put on Aiden Higgins and Gardiner earlier (or else start one of them), for God's sake Clancy was giving Nallen the runaround early on.

I thought McGarrity did as good as he could have done with big Barry Cullinane under most of the kick-outs that he contested. Harte did ok I thought. Nallen did well though when he was moved off Clancy. Parsons didn't have as good a game as he had against Sligo. I suppose it was hard to expect him to but he should have been ready for Galway is what I'm trying to say.

For most of the second half, we had Galway on the rack imo. Those 2 goals early on in the game were the big ones. I would agree with what posters say about Galway's midfield fade out, but there's not much football in their midfield in all fairness.

Andy Moran was the only one of the full-forward line who performed well I thought despite Conor scoring a few points. Conor I thought had a poor game by his standards and had 3 wides in the first few minutes of the game. It seems Barney is right all along about Austin O'Malley, he cannot cut it at championship football. Saying that though the Galway backs deserve credit for putting the shackles on the full-forward line. Kilcoyne got his goal after coming on again, Padden did well enough too when he came on. How Cullinane only got a yellow card with that haymaker on Harte is beyond me.

I'll give more of my opinions later but right now, I'm one very pissed off Mayoman.

Not long home. Delighted with the minor win especially when they played well below par and still dug it out. The senior match was beyond sickening and the manner of this defeat will not be easily to come to terms with. It s another opportunity wasted and two defeats in a row to Galway and today they sowed it to us at home. As some of us pointed out here earlier the team that was sent out today was deeply flawed. To have ended up with that team set up in a championship final beggars belief. Thank God Aiden Higgins has had the patience to hang around on the bench for so long. or Nallen did not heed those that were writing him off, or it have been a lot worse. As for a certain forward that was impersonating a footballer again today, I m not even going there. Would nt be fair. He does nt pick himself. It looks like we ll be stuck on 2 Connacht titles now for this decade which is damning.

QuoteI'll give more of my opinions later but right now, I'm one very pissed off Mayoman

Gather Farrendelin you did not hang around for a few pints after the game and for some "deep introspection".  ;)

Moran did OK in the second half but thought he could have done more in the earlier stages when Mayo were under pressure. Likewise Harte started very slowly though played well after Galway's second goal. Despite the bad start I feel Mayo should have at least drawn the game - having done the hard work to get back in the game and go ahead they missed a few chances and allowed Galway some handy scores. 

Things are not great when you have to rely on the old heads to come on and steady the ship. Kilcoyne should have went for the point near the end instead of the goal but he did make a difference when he came on for O'Malley. O'Malley was by far the biggest let down today, he just could not win a 50/50 ball. I thought he could be the answer for us in there but on todays performance he is no where close. The subs all played well when introduced, most of them should start the next day as mayo were a much better team in the second half when they ran at Galway. If Trevor was on in the second half we might have won it, he is very important to that team and gives you 100%, wish Conor played with as much heart.
Ah I am just fecking frustrated.

All is not lost, we were 7 points down and came back to lead but ran out of steam it appears. Now would be a good time to ring Macdonald for a go as a winghalf forward if he would play as instructed for a few games. This talk of being a poor qualifier team is stupid, lose a provincial final by a point to the best attacking team in the country or so we are constantly told is no way a big defeat.
Qualifiers are tough but its only one more game than galway. how many did tyrone play on their way to sam maguire?

Time to drop the drama for some lads, say nothing to papers about your feelings or dreams, just do the training and hit hard when you take the field.Mayo look like a decent side, the hard edge is still not hard enough though.

Dont think our lads have the stomach for the qualifiers. Dont believe there is enough leadership in the team to pick it up and recover from this. Johnno was talking it up after and on about character and grabbing the opportunity with both arms[sic] but the year is effectively over. Conar Mort was saying today in the paper that the qualifiers were not an option and that mindset will not be altered by a bit of ould guff. I d say most lads will be just glad to get back to their clubs now. They wont have that crowd support the next day either and I cant see us realistically win another game after that today. MacDonald wont be coming back. No sense in that now. The 'rebuilding' will go on and next year Nallen, A. Higgins and Heaney may not be around anymore to limit damage either. Not optimistic.

Come on lads its not all doom and gloom, we have one more game to play against a team thats in the same boat as ourselves (lost already) and we are back to where we were except we have the advantage of not being drawn to play Kerry in the quarters. That sounds ok to me...... Plus our second half display was very good.... The fat lady hasn't sung yet.....

Have to say I am delighted with the win today. I didn't expect a Galway win to be honest. I thought home advantage would swing it for Mayo. Being honest we were lucky enough in the end to get the win as we fell apart for long stages of the second half.
We were wiped out around the middle of the field in the second half - Mayo made a lot of clean catches and also won an amount of breaking ball. In those circumstances we did well to get the win.
There's a serious amount of improvement needed for the quarter final now though and the fact that we'll be meeting a team with a few wins under their belts and recent match practice wouold be a big concern for me.
On the plus side Joe Bergin could well be back in contention for a place by then.
From a Galway point of view...the full back line were good today. Damien Burke as usual lived on the edge of a double yellow card  but overall I thought he did well on Mortimer.Mortimer was really quiet for most of the game though I think he did kick 2 good points from play. Hanley was outstanding at no.3 all through and didn't give O'Malley a sniff.He outplayed him in the league game in Castlebar earlier in the year as well. Bradshaw did really well when he moved out to the half back line after Fitzy came on. I think he got the TV3 man of the match? Blake and Sice were both troubled by their markers but did a lot of good things also. Cullinane had a good first half I thought but was fighting a lone furrow in the second half.Often he was the only Galway man competing for the ball up against 3 or 4 Mayo lads which should never happen. Up front PJ was the difference between the 2 sides. He took his goal brilliantly and kicked 3 great points from play.He is sheer class.Bane was also really good today.Meehan contributed sporadically as well though he is capable of much more than he has shown so far in the championship this year.Maybe Croke Park will be the stage he delivers on?
Matt Clancy was having a good game in teh first half and it was a massive blow to lose him at half time as he tends to win breaking ball and run hard at the opposition defence. Nicky won a lot of ball off Conroy early on but faded out of the game thereafter and picked up another groin injury I think.Breathnach again did very little.True he did score a goal but overall he had very little impact on the game and I really can't fathom how he keeps his place game after game.
Anyway there's lots of room for improvement in the team for Croke Park. If we lose our shape in the forward line like we did for long spells in the 2nd half then we won't be winning any games in Croker.

From a Mayo point of view - you have to give credit to them for the way they played in the second half against the wind and also in the last few mins of the first half after Galway's second goal. They really upped their performance and intensity and took the game to galway. It seemed that they went back to running at Galway from deep in the 2nd half which is the way they have always played against us and with much success it has to be said. They weren't doing this earlier in the game and when they started to do this there were alarming gaps appearing in our defence.
They were unlucky not to get something out of the game. As I had posted earlier in the week, I felt that Boyle and Conroy were both there for the taking and so it proved.They were not a bit comfortable in the fb line with quick ball coming in from out the field.
Gardiner and Higgins tightened the defence up a lot. Trevor Mortimer's injury was a big blow as he was seeing plenty of the ball at that stage.O'Malley and Moran did very little while Conor didn't do an awful lot either though he did kick 2 fine points from play. I was impressed with Harte today.He actually won a lot of kick-outs today which surprised me. Dillon was always a threat and kicked some good points.
Mayo can still do well in the backdoor if their attitude is right. They are well capable of beating most teams in the country.

Watched the game on the box.  Not bad coverage, although in the first half they missed a goal chance by mayo coz they were replaying an earlier incident. Brutal (why they have to show something in a replay 3 times i don't know. very soccer like).

David Brady said at half time that Mayo have to "cop on".  He was right, and they did to an extent.

Some thoughts on the game.

Mayo are still at this fannying about at the 30 yard line, running around in circles, passing it out field etc etc.  They need to do some drills big time that teaches them to run past a man. What's the worst that can happen if you try and take on a man? Lose the ball (tends to happen anyway) or Free in, over the bar or better.

Cullinane was lucky to stay on the pitch.  Ref chickened out on giving him a deserved second yellow.  I don't think Cullinane means to do these things, but he's quite "dirty" at times.  I think it's just his size and intensiity.  He'd want to watch it though.

Parsons was a revelation.  Some unwarranted criticism on here, but he got a hand to 70% of all kickouts and won it or palmed it accurately to a Mayo player.  That's what we need people, what we've been looking for in a midfielder for years.  He doesn't have to catch and run the length of the field with every ball (we have enough of them!).  Great newcomer.

Harte was very good too.  Some great catching and running.  Nallen was brilliant.  Actually marked his man and made some vital  interceptions.  McGarrity was good, but I reckon there is more in him.  Dillon good.  O'Malley not.  C Mort - does the man ever look up?  T Mort - shame he pulled up.  Peader G - should have been there from the start, always has a good game against Galway.

Fair play to Galway.  Very efficient and as always made the scoring look so easy compared to Mayos aforementioned fannying about.  

All in all, from a Mayo point of view, not the worst in world.  If they can continue to win the ball around the middle of the park as they did today then the scores will come. (C Mort would normally clean up when midfield are dominating - but of course it's galway we were playing.  Pyschological thing)

IMO these two teams today would be very much up there with the top teams remaining.  

Quote from: galwayman on July 13, 2008, 07:25:15 PM
From a Galway point of view...the full back line were good today.

Yeah I thought all three of them were very good. Damien Burke as he usually does completely tied up Mortimer who I think got one point from play. However again by late in the game he was sailing close to the wind after picking up a yellow card and a ticking. Hanley was excellent. Didn't give Austin O'Malley a kick. Bradshaw was a revelation as well although I tend to think he's more suited to a role further out the field that allows him to rampage forward.

First half it looked like we were going to run riot which we did I guess to a certain extent. Got two goals but we missed another few good chances for goals too. Clarke had to pull off a couple of sharp saves. Midfield went quite well in the first half and we were winning our fair share of possession and looked dangerous going forward with the peerless PJ running the show. Got 7 points up but Mayo kicked the last 3 scores of the half to pull back the lead a little before the break.

First 20 minutes of the second half we really lost our way a little around the middle of the field and Mayo got a run at us. We conceded a bad goal after Pat Harte punched back a ball from Alan Dillon's free that was sailing wide. One time in the game when there seemed to be a loss of concentration at the back and we were punished. Think the goal put Mayo ahead so it wasn't looking good at that point. In fairness though in the last 15 minutes the Galway players seemed to mentally regroup and managed to get some control back in midfield and the forwards kicked some great scores to win us the game including the subs as Mattie Clancy and Nicky Joyce had both gone off injured by then.

Thought it was a cracking second half once the scores became close. Some very good football played and some excellent points taken. First half was poor enough alright. Too many stoppages.

Anyway on to the quarter finals. More improvement needed but good at least to regain our Connacht title. Might be an outside chance that Joe Bergin will be back but He won't have much football behind him so unfair to expect too much from him if he does return in time. Nicky and Mattie both picking up injuries so we don't know whether they will be available yet? Think Mayo can look forward to the qualifiers with some optimism even though they haven't done too well going down that route in recent years. Mayo probably finished with a better team than the one that started the game. Would be good if we could get at least two Connacht teams into the last eight and hopefully further.

Good to see decent Galway support in Castlebar too. They seem to go to Castlebar quicker than they go to Pearse.

Quote from: larry buaile on July 13, 2008, 08:33:09 PM
Watched the game on the box.  Not bad coverage, although in the first half they missed a goal chance by mayo coz they were replaying an earlier incident. Brutal (why they have to show something in a replay 3 times i don't know. very soccer like).
David Brady said at half time that Mayo have to "cop on".  He was right, and they did to an extent.

Some thoughts on the game.

Mayo are still at this fannying about at the 30 yard line, running around in circles, passing it out field etc etc.  They need to do some drills big time that teaches them to run past a man. What's the worst that can happen if you try and take on a man? Lose the ball (tends to happen anyway) or Free in, over the bar or better.

Cullinane was lucky to stay on the pitch.  Ref chickened out on giving him a deserved second yellow.  I don't think Cullinane means to do these things, but he's quite "dirty" at times.  I think it's just his size and intensiity.  He'd want to watch it though.

Parsons was a revelation.  Some unwarranted criticism on here, but he got a hand to 70% of all kickouts and won it or palmed it accurately to a Mayo player.  That's what we need people, what we've been looking for in a midfielder for years.  He doesn't have to catch and run the length of the field with every ball (we have enough of them!).  Great newcomer.

Harte was very good too.  Some great catching and running.  Nallen was brilliant.  Actually marked his man and made some vital  interceptions.  McGarrity was good, but I reckon there is more in him.  Dillon good.  O'Malley not.  C Mort - does the man ever look up?  T Mort - shame he pulled up.  Peader G - should have been there from the start, always has a good game against Galway.

Fair play to Galway.  Very efficient and as always made the scoring look so easy compared to Mayos aforementioned fannying about.  

All in all, from a Mayo point of view, not the worst in world.  If they can continue to win the ball around the middle of the park as they did today then the scores will come. (C Mort would normally clean up when midfield are dominating - but of course it's galway we were playing.  Pyschological thing)

IMO these two teams today would be very much up there with the top teams remaining.  

Agree strongly with your point about replays. The over use of replays seems to be creeping more and more into gaa coverage. It simply doesnt work during live matches. Unlike soccer were the game isnt end to end normally you can miss something crucial while watching a replay.

Tommy Lyons is a dangerously incompetent moron. Just accused Pat Harte of diving after Cullinane shouldered him when it was as clear as day that there was an accidental clash of heads during the tackle, which is why Harte was holding his face on the ground. What a f*cking tossbag!

O'Mahony may have his reasons for doing what he did in dropping McDonald but I have my opinions and I'm sticking with them.
He erred badly in dispensing with Ciaran's services and this was apparent today. What is done is done, I guess, and there is no point in re-hashing old gripes but Galway won because they had Padraig Joyce and Mayo lost because they had no father figure of his stature in attack.
On the positive side, Mayo deserve credit for fighting back- they don't drop the head when they go behind any more. Fair play to Galway also; they showed great poise and composure in keeping cool as the end approached and Mayo were in overdrive. Typically Galway don't do panic. (If Joyce wasn't around, would that have been the case today?)
It was a tragedy for Mayo that Trevor Mortimer had to retire. He seemed the one forward with the speed and confidence to have a cut at the Galway defence. There were good individual displays and scores also from some of the others but we had no one to organise things and provide a target for direct passes being kicked in. Most of Mayo's scores were hard won, whereas Galway, when things were going right for them, seemed to be able to cut through with a minimum of effort. Plus of course, they had Padraig Joyce.
I notice no one else seems to have alluded to Ciaran's absence in the posts here so far. Surely I am not the only one to think it his absence was sorely missed?

watched the sunday game  for the firsty time in years tonigh video i sbroken and they are all toss pots who exactly could take a full strength shoulder from behins from the man mountain that is cullinnane and not go down? and to listen to the kerry eejit youd swear galway won by about 15 points. mayo in fact scored more often do the guys even watch thw game?.

as for the game . I fomahony learns anything tody its hopefully that to win we need all our best players on the pitch. the blatently obviously includes Padden Gardiner and  kilcoyne  and not Boyle or Austin .(why people are surprised at his performance amazes as he played the exact same way he always has for mayo except no body put the ball into his hands today)Conroy may be useful for special cases but was completely off the pace today. cunniffe did just about enough to justify his place but benefits from looking like nallen .

at least mayo showed a bit of fight after an awful start but it followed dthe league campaign exactly losing out in the tight games they could easily have won. and it is this that splits a winning team from the alsorans

Quote from: Lar Naparka on July 13, 2008, 11:02:44 PM
O'Mahony may have his reasons for doing what he did in dropping McDonald but I have my opinions and I'm sticking with them.
He erred badly in dispensing with Ciaran's services and this was apparent today. What is done is done, I guess, and there is no point in re-hashing old gripes but Galway won because they had Padraig Joyce and Mayo lost because they had no father figure of his stature in attack.
On the positive side, Mayo deserve credit for fighting back- they don't drop the head when they go behind any more. Fair play to Galway also; they showed great poise and composure in keeping cool as the end approached and Mayo were in overdrive. Typically Galway don't do panic. (If Joyce wasn't around, would that have been the case today?)
It was a tragedy for Mayo that Trevor Mortimer had to retire. He seemed the one forward with the speed and confidence to have a cut at the Galway defence. There were good individual displays and scores also from some of the others but we had no one to organise things and provide a target for direct passes being kicked in. Most of Mayo's scores were hard won, whereas Galway, when things were going right for them, seemed to be able to cut through with a minimum of effort. Plus of course, they had Padraig Joyce.
I notice no one else seems to have alluded to Ciaran's absence in the posts here so far. Surely I am not the only one to think it his absence was sorely missed?

of course he was but as you say yourself theres no point. i dont think he could join the panel now and  do himself any justice it'd end up like last years farce where he was put on long after the game was dead.
Aft least JOM rlented on gardiner Mayo really missed the flunecy he bring he proved himself today to be one of the really essential element of a mayo team going well.

That was the worst analysis of a match to date on the Sunday Game.

1 - No mention of the 2 mins injury time the ref gave? when it should have been "at least" five minutes ?

2 - They said PJ should have got a penalty but failed to show the pick off the ground for the 1st Goal ?

3 - They failed to show that the 2nd goal could have been a square ball?

as for Tommy Lyons what was the point in that 'player honesty' shite ? that had nothing to do with the match, if he wants to give some philosophical talk on gaelic football then let him go down to Grafton Street!

It was a bit unfair to have a Meath man referring the match IMO....

Great match, end to end, epic stuff. Joyce was superb. Meehans movement was class, created so many scores.

Some sickening comments on here about Galways physical approach in the past but yet all the cowardly belts came from Mayo players today. Having been at the match a few escaped my attention until I watched the brothers recording. How dare the MINORITY of Mayo posters lecture Galway about this approach.

A lot of abuse from Galway lads towards Meehan, I thought he was fantastic, his movement off the ball was supreme.Higgins was tight but Mayo focused too much on him and paid the price.

Great victory considered N Joyce and Mattie Clancy went off injured...with bergin back  i have high hopes for the quater finals....

Quote from: highorlow on July 13, 2008, 11:33:15 PM
That was the worst analysis of a match to date on the Sunday Game.

1 - No mention of the 2 mins injury time the ref gave? when it should have been "at least" five minutes ?

2 - They said PJ should have got a penalty but failed to show the pick off the ground for the 1st Goal ?

3 - They failed to show that the 2nd goal could have been a square ball?

Maybe although one of the Mayo points in the second half was also wide but they never showed it. We were directly behind it.

There's also a case to be made that the ball had gone wide before Pat Harte punched it back for the Mayo goal. Damien Burke was on the radio this evening swearing that it had gone wide before Harte made contact with it. Couldn't tell from my seat at the game but it would have been worth a look on replay at least.

As for Breathnach's goal I thought myself at the match that maybe he might have been in the square but seeing the replay this evening it looked ok.

I guess these are the talking points you get in almost every game.

Quote from: belleaqua on July 13, 2008, 11:35:49 PM
Great match, end to end, epic stuff. Joyce was superb. Meehans movement was class, created so many scores.

Some sickening comments on here about Galways physical approach in the past but yet all the cowardly belts came from Mayo players today. Having been at the match a few escaped my attention until I watched the brothers recording. How dare the MINORITY of Mayo posters lecture Galway about this approach.

A lot of abuse from Galway lads towards Meehan, I thought he was fantastic, his movement off the ball was supreme.Higgins was tight but Mayo focused too much on him and paid the price.

Great victory considered N Joyce and Mattie Clancy went off injured...with bergin back  i have high hopes for the quater finals....

Bergin was on the bench apparently but I didn't see him listed in the programme.

Quote from: highorlow on July 13, 2008, 11:33:15 PM
That was the worst analysis of a match to date on the Sunday Game.

1 - No mention of the 2 mins injury time the ref gave? when it should have been "at least" five minutes ?

2 - They said PJ should have got a penalty but failed to show the pick off the ground for the 1st Goal ?

3 - They failed to show that the 2nd goal could have been a square ball?

as for Tommy Lyons what was the point in that 'player honesty' shite ? that had nothing to do with the match, if he wants to give some philosophical talk on gaelic football then let him go down to Grafton Street!



It was a bit unfair to have a Meath man referring the match IMO....

Get a grip will you?There was no pick off the ground and Galway should have had a penalty for Joyces scuffed shot?! Mayo were given a chance to equalise and didnt...why didnt Dillon strike it?

Square ball?? are you serious/? concentrate on your defence.

As the TV3 panel commented upon, Mayo's 'intensity' was pathetic. they did not put in one good hit, very disappointing for a Connacht final

Confront the real issues and stop whinging...

QuoteSome sickening comments on here about Galways physical approach in the past but yet all the cowardly belts came from Mayo players today.

Is there any real need to go down this path ? Yee won so enjoy it and focus on the important things - like where yee have to improve on to win the quarters. I honestly don't recall any real cynical sh*t from either side worth talking about so enjoy the match for what it was rather than picking up some inisgnifcant issue, commenting on it and then waiting for some idjiot from Mayo to go on the defensive.


As for The Sunday Game  ...... the wife went down and paid the TV license on Thursday ..... for what exactly ? The level of analysis wasn't even at the level of the type of chat that would be going on between 2 aul fellas at a bar who never played the game in their lives and only half know the rules. Jaysus twas shocking (as was the editing of the match) even allowing for the fact that RTE clearly decided that one-sided bore-fest down in Limerick today was going to very much take priority. Anthony Tohill and Kevin McStay are the only 2 pundits actually worth listening to

Tommy Lyons and Co on the Sunday game are full of shit.

Last week the were calling for the heads of the Kerry lads and saying that they need to be punished,
this week they are saying that players need to toughen up!?

Am I missing something? The whole lot of them are a walking contradiction. Hypocrites!
I had to laugh out loud when I head someone in the studio say
"Both teams deserved it, no one deserved to lose, but Galway deserved it in the end". Or some 'Number 2' like that!
Is like listening to a 3 year old.

Getting back to the game I felt that Mayo deserved it. We had Galway on the ropes for long spells during the 2nd half.
If Conor Mort, Billy Joe or Kilcoyne took their scores late on in the game I think we would have won it. And they should have taken their scores.

One thing we did learn is that the FB line was found out. Conroy, Boyle and to a lesser extent Cunniffe were bad today. Although Cuinneffe was trying hard. Nallen did Ok.
Heaney was a litttle loose but still not bad. Gardiner and Higgins made the defence more solid when they came on.

One player that I was disappointed in was Austy. I was one of the people calling for him to get a chance at that level, and despite what people say, he deserved his shot.
Unfortunately he didnt take it. He looked like a bag of nerves and nothing went right for him. I was disappointed.
I dont know why everyone wants to see him do well, everyone was willing him on, but it just didnt happen for him.
He is like an underdog or local hero you want to do well, because you expect its in him but he doesnt show it come championship.
Its a shame.

Well done Galway, best of luck in the quarters. As someone said earlier we are just one match from being there ourselves so it is not all doom and gloom (as long as we don't have to travel north).

I watched the match live and was not even aware due to numerous replays of Joyce that we had a goal chance in the first half that struck the post until I came on here. The goals really did punish us in the end but the nail in the coffin was for Armstrong's and Bane's last points there wasn't a Mayo man within 5 yards of them.

We well and truely won the midfield battle but the game was lost giving away them two soft goals.

Padden, A Higgins, Gardiner and Kilcoyne will all have to start the next day. I thought Pat Harte had an absolutely outstanding match, he really is a class act.

Lastly, David Brady was absolutely brilliant to listen to. I was in stitches listening to him. "There are no fences in Mayo, only stone walls".

Quote from: AbbeySider on July 14, 2008, 12:36:37 AM
Getting back to the game I felt that Mayo deserved it. We had Galway on the ropes for long spells during the 2nd half.
If Conor Mort, Billy Joe or Kilcoyne took their scores late on in the game I think we would have won it. And they should have taken their scores.

Being on top for long spells in the second half isn't enough to deserve to win a game by itself especially as Galway were equally on top for the entire first half. Scored two goals, nearly scored another and probably should have been awarded a penalty. The 4 point lead Galway had at half-time could easily have been 10 and it would have been game over.

Overall and looking at the game in it's entirety I thought Galway were just about the better team and probably deserved the win and that's how it turned out on the scoreboard. Once Mayo got ahead Galway were more clinical in the final 12 to 13 minutes and got the scores required. Don't think many would have complained if it was a drawn game though.

gut wrenching defeat today.agree with lar about mcdonald and there is no use in bringing it up again but it is soul destroying to lose by one point and the best forward in the county sitting at home. very disappointed in omalley and we see the reason today why maughan or mickey moran never picked him.he is simply not good enough at this level .to me its unbelievable that 2 years into joms reign we still do not have a full back or a full forward as conroy was very poor today and is not a county  level   defender .even tho we fought back well in the 2ind half most of our scores were individual efforts with out any great teamwork whereas galways scores came from well worked moves .we were desperatly crying out for someone to knit the attack together  but whats done is done.i do not hold out much hope of us goingany further this year  so we will head into year 3 of j.o.m s reign trying to win the connaught title in salthill .

Disappointed and the comments from certain senior players in the media about the qualifiers do not fill me with hope. Cannot understand why Dillon didn't take that last free, he was the one on form

Quote from: stephenite on July 14, 2008, 02:59:37 AM
Cannot understand why Dillon didn't take that last free, he was the one on form

Couldn't understand that either especially when Dillon had kicked one over earlier from the same distance. I know it was further to the left but he can kick them with the outside of the boot into the wind.

Another thing that has to be sorted out is a player who can kick a 45. Now how come Mayo haven't a player who can kick a 45, I bet every club in Mayo has a player or 2 who can kick 45's over easily yet at county level Mayo cannot even get this right.

Quote from: mayo51 on July 14, 2008, 01:23:24 AM
To me its unbelievable that 2 years into joms reign we still do not have a full back or a full forward as conroy was very poor today and is not a county  level   defender

If you watch much club football in Mayo you would realise that we dont have the players at club level that could make the cut.
There is no outstanding fullback, center back or full forward in the county at the minute.
If there is, id like to meet them! But sadly they are not in it. That is not JOMs fault.
He had to try Boyle, Cuinneffe and Conroy.
It was a gamble and unfortunately it didnt work out.

Here's Eugene McGee's two cents: http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/eugene-mcgee/same-old-failings-1432504.html

His final par is interesting. McGee says "The immediate futures of the two teams seem to be diverging. Galway have lots of young talented players such as the outstanding Gary Bradshaw at corner back, but Mayo seem to be depending on the older players with all their burdens."

Depending on the older players. Isn't that interesting? We've been hearing about rebuilding for the past two years, but there doesn't seem to be one brick laid. A lot of the momentum behind O'Mahony's appointment was that the older leaders of the team - O'Neill, McDonald and David Brady - all wanted to play for him. Well, two have retired and one is dropped, so it makes you wonder, doesn't it?

Liam Sammon is no eejit, is he? Hats off to him. Someone who follows schools football very closely told me that he reckoned Sammon waited and waited until he retired from teaching before taking the Galway job, because he wanted to give it all he had. The team are a credit to him, and that shouldn't be forgotten either.

QuoteBergin was on the bench apparently but I didn't see him listed in the programme.

Dont think so. I saw him, He was water boy.

QuoteCannot understand why Dillon didn't take that last free, he was the one on form

When they got the free I thought Clarke would have been brought up to take it off the ground?

It was still a tough kick into a swirling wind.

Anyhow we have 3 weeks to re-group now which is plenty of time and we still have a strong chance of a Quarter Final based on the last 45 minutes of yesterdays match.

As a neutral thought it was a great game to be at and both teams deserve praise. A draw would been a fair result as Mayo missed enough chances to win it, the 21yard free in 1st half was criminal, and thought there should have been more than 2 mins stoppage time. Saying that Galway got the vital scores in 2nd half when Mayo seemed to be getting on top.
It was a great tactical battle on the sidelines. O Mahoney made the changes to try and get Mayo back in the game after Galways early dominance. It worked in that it gave them a chance to win a game that seemed lost. Sammon then with the introduction of Lydon wrestled back the inititive in last ten mins.
Andy Moran was brought out to midfield where he had a great 2nd half and won plenty of ball. The downside was his marker Bradshaw followed, had a great last quarter and kicked a vital point. Cruel luck for Mayo but credit Galway where its due

Delighted with the win yesterday, although still not sure how it happened. Still glad of the silverware, only one both teams will get this year.

Good points:
Thought our full back line was excellent today, definitely Hanley's finest 70mins for Galway and Burke battled bravely too.
Caught one great ball there late in the 2nd half.
Thought Bane played well yesterday, 0-3 from play and did well from general play too, set up some scores
Joyce was peerless today 1-3 from play and pulling all the strings. Great foul at the end too when Mayo were running through
to ask Mortimer to score from a lot way out. A bit cynical i know but everyone else would do the same!!


Bad points
Our fears of been destroyed at midfield came true in the second half although Cullinane battled manfully. Still not sure he stayed on the pitch at the end of the first half. Need to do better there although Conroy and Lydon both contributed when they came on.
Went long periods without scoring there and only for Mayo giving us a 20 minutes and two goal headstart, would have been a big loss. I'm not sure if the Mayo players were believing the hype that all they had to do was turn up. They started with the
'B' full back line and didn't start playing until after the 2nd goal which was our fourth goal chance.  
I'm surprised that O'Mahony allowed all those paper articles from McGarrity and Mortimer. Remember a year til Sunday. "What you don't want is a two pager centre spread and the shit kicked out of you on the field".

thought Mortimer selfishness was shown up at the end, late on he had the chance to put Dillon in one on one with the goalie but weent for the point and missed, otherwise it would have been curtains for Galway!!

Couldnt make the game. First Galway championship match I've missed since 1992.

But I watched it on TV3.

For Galway, Finian Hanley & Damien Burke were superb in the full back line. Hanley won everything while Burke contained Mortimer.

In thee half back line, Blake really got into the game & will be there for the rest of the year. However, Coyne was well off the pace. Sice was avaerage enough and despite what is being said about Bradshaw, He looked exceptionally loose. Good when he was on the ball, yeah but marking?

Midfield remains our biggest problem area. Coleman disappeared when the presure came on (How many times will he do this in championship?) & Cullinane could have been better.

Half forward line, P. Joyce was class. Matt Clancy never really got into the game. Full forward line, I thought Bane was good, took his scores well when we needed them but Meehan was poor enough.

I could not see what Fiachra Breathnach offered at all during the second half & imagine he would have been taken off if we hadnt used so many subs.

Mayo's forwrds were dillydallying too much. Remember Billy Joe Paddens point after coming on. It came after about 30 passes from a Mortimer free that he should have been able to put over himself (A much more kickable score than the free at the end).

Agree about Tommy Lyons. The two incidents that he should were not bad, especially when the Mayo lad went down, that was a heavy knock.

Quote1 - No mention of the 2 mins injury time the ref gave? when it should have been "at least" five minutes ?

Now Ive been going to matches a long time and its rare you see  5 minutes of injury time. Can you explain where the 5 minutes are down. Hanley took up a couple of minutes but I dont know where you are coming up with "at least 5"

Quote3 - They failed to show that the 2nd goal could have been a square ball?

They did show this goal. Didnt mention square ball becasue it was clearly outside, nothing to discuss about it

QuoteSome sickening comments on here about Galways physical approach in the past but yet all the cowardly belts came from Mayo players today. Having been at the match a few escaped my attention until I watched the brothers recording. How dare the MINORITY of Mayo posters lecture Galway about this approach.

Exactly, TV3 highlighted how Matt Clancy was lucky to stay on the pitch for his knee into Higgins but skimmed over Aiden Higgins shoulder into Clancy back when Clancy couldnt see him coming.

QuoteA lot of abuse from Galway lads towards Meehan, I thought he was fantastic, his movement off the ball was supreme.Higgins was tight but Mayo focused too much on him and paid the price.

I really hope you are right about this. TV doesnt show the full picture and I couldnt see his movement throughout but hopefully this is the case.

QuoteThere's also a case to be made that the ball had gone wide before Pat Harte punched it back for the Mayo goal. Damien Burke was on the radio this evening swearing that it had gone wide before Harte made contact with it. Couldn't tell from my seat at the game but it would have been worth a look on replay at least.

I noticed one of the Galway backs quizzing the umpire about it alright. Dont think they had a proper angle to check it.

QuoteWent long periods without scoring there and only for Mayo giving us a 20 minutes and two goal headstart, would have been a big loss. I'm not sure if the Mayo players were believing the hype that all they had to do was turn up. They started with the

Would not agree with this at all. If Mayo didnt have such a poor start, then the pattern of the game would have been totally different but it could still have been just as close.

Must say that was serious dangerous stuff from Tommy Lyons last night. Particularly re the Harte incident. In fairness was no bad intent, but Harte did get some whack. Really no need for this sort of stuff

Thought the 1st half was a bit too scrappy, but the 2nd was a good contest. Joyce is quite the player, he dug Galway out of it with crucial scores. Mattie Clancy played well too making tough runs at the Mayo defense. Mayo should be kicking themselves though. Some of their wides were shocking.

The ref didnt help matters, some of the frees he gave were for nothing especially one to Bradshaw(?) in the corner which lead to a crucial Galway point. I'm just glad he'll never ref one of our games.  ;)

Disappointing result but there are some positives.

First we did well in midfield, overall I'd say we won about 55% of the ball unfortunately this still wasn't enough to cover our defensive frailties. But this is an area which is strong and in my opinion will improve. Thought McGarrity played better than in the Sligo game. Parsons did well enough for a first Connacht Final against Galway and it was him who punched back the ball for Kilcoynes goal.

Our defence: I was immediately worried about the players they picked up from the start. Particularly Conroy on Nicky Joyce and Nallen on Clancy. I thought they both would have done better on other men (as Nallen showed later on). However it was rectified relatively early on. Boyle was shown up and Conroy's weakness was shown up on fast tricky men. Howley was badly missed much more so than McDonald in my opinion. 1-14 is a good score and would have won most recent Connacht finals.

We were unlucky to lose Trevor as he was making headway. Dillon and Harte were the pick of the forwards. Austie deserved his run out but played himself out of a spot. I'd like to see a half forward line of Moran Harte and Padden with Kilcoyne Dillon and Conor up front if Trevor isn't fit.

As for us not being a qualifier team well fair enough in the past but we did get to 2 quarter finals through them and both after putting in worse performance in the province.

The 2 games Galway had stood to them if we had played Ros and Leitrim and Galway played Sligo the result would have been reversed in my opionion

Quote from: Jinxy on July 13, 2008, 10:44:46 PM
Tommy Lyons is a dangerously incompetent moron. Just accused Pat Harte of diving after Cullinane shouldered him when it was as clear as day that there was an accidental clash of heads during the tackle, which is why Harte was holding his face on the ground. What a f*cking tossbag!

I don't know why I'm still surprised at Lyons's comments, he was spot on though with the Joyce incident...

Another poor performance from conor mortimer, that miss from a 45 in the first few minutes was shocking. He never performs at the highest level ie All Ireland finals, until we replace him we will carry on waiting. Can someone explain to me why he runs diagonally away from the posts when he is on the attack, it just makes the job harder. Good luck to Galway they are better equipped than us this year. Nallen and Heaney have been great servants but lets see more of the under 21's

Sunday game analysis was poor enough. Lyons definately could have picked 2 better examples of diving this season than the 2 he did, in both cases the players took a hit. There have been far worse cases of diving this season than that. Thought it was a very enjoyable game. Dont know why Mayo players would give up at this point, they're only 1 game worse off than Galway. They've trained for 7 months plus and if theyd shown up for the 1st 25 minutes would now be the champions. They can put it right with one victory so dont think they should give up now.

Quote from: Galforever on July 14, 2008, 10:07:19 AM
In thee half back line, Blake really got into the game & will be there for the rest of the year. However, Coyne was well off the pace. Sice was avaerage enough and despite what is being said about Bradshaw, He looked exceptionally loose. Good when he was on the ball, yeah but marking?

Well when he was corner-back his man didn't score. He was even better when he was moved out the field. Thought he had a fantastic game really but yeah I don't think he's a natural corner-back. He seems at his best when he's allowed to rampage forward from the half-back line.

QuoteWell when he was corner-back his man didn't score. He was even better when he was moved out the field. Thought he had a fantastic game really but yeah I don't think he's a natural corner-back. He seems at his best when he's allowed to rampage forward from the half-back line.

I agree, I thought he was doing well in the corner. But when he came out, He was marking Dillion, Wasnt he? Or Andy Moran? Anyways whichever one it was, both those players got on the ball far too much in the second half. And whoever was marking them needs to take some of the responsibility.

Quote from: chrissears on July 14, 2008, 11:54:42 AM
Another poor performance from conor mortimer, that miss from a 45 in the first few minutes was shocking. He never performs at the highest level ie All Ireland finals, until we replace him we will carry on waiting. Can someone explain to me why he runs diagonally away from the posts when he is on the attack, it just makes the job harder. Good luck to Galway they are better equipped than us this year. Nallen and Heaney have been great servants but lets see more of the under 21's

The fact that Conor missed a 45 is not shocking at all, the fact that there is no one better placed to take one is. We all know Conor has many weaknesses in his game (he can only kick with his right, doesn't get goals and rarely scores from greater than 35 yards out) but at the same time for what he is he is pretty good. You say as long as we have Conor we won't win Sam, I would say without him we wouldn't have got anywhere near Sam in 04 or 06.

He didn't have his best game yesterday fair enough but over the years he's pulled us out of situations when no one else on the team did. The Connacht final in 06 springs to mind as well as both semis against Fermanagh in 04. He didn't perform in AI finals ok but then who did? As an out and out corner forward he relies on ball coming in, if we get cleaned in midfield (which we did in both AI finals) he won't perform. He is not a runner from deep like Dillon or a playmaker like McD so he can rarely change a game on his own. Name a better corner forward in Mayo?

Quote from: chrissears on July 14, 2008, 11:54:42 AM
Another poor performance from conor mortimer, that miss from a 45 in the first few minutes was shocking. He never performs at the highest level ie All Ireland finals, until we replace him we will carry on waiting. Can someone explain to me why he runs diagonally away from the posts when he is on the attack, it just makes the job harder. Good luck to Galway they are better equipped than us this year. Nallen and Heaney have been great servants but lets see more of the under 21's

It's because basically he's a one trick pony.
What he does, he does very well indeed but his range of options is quite limited.
If you've noticed, he loves a low ground ball that he can run onto, drop to his knees to slide along the ground and then pick up, duck under his marker's hands and hare off. Generally, he prefers getting the ball on the right of goal where he can set up his left peg for a shot at goal. You will notice that he prefers running from right to left because of this.
To be effective, he needs to be positioned sideways to the goals; you will never see him running straight at the target if he can help it at all. It has to be a sideways kick.
He is also extremely adept at trapping his marker's arm as he slides to the ground and thereby drawing a free.
Yesterday, without the incomparable McDonald to direct pin point passes at him, he was at a loss as the balls he had to compete for were directed in high and most came down the left hand side.
He must be a very difficult little hoor to mark as he crouches low and is quite strong for his size but asking him to compete for balls coming in over his head is a waste of time.

I thought Bradshaw lacked fitness in the last 10 mins when he came out the field against Moran but competed well for the last kickouts which were aimed in his direction so may have been subbed if we didn't use them elsewhere. Breathnach was another
caught for fitness when Mayo were running at us in the 2nd half. I though Sice was poor throughout also although he did make a fine catch late on.

I think Fitzy played himself onto the team yesterday and Declan Meehan will take Sice's place when he comes back from injury with Bradshaw starting on the wing too. Blake did well yesterday a man with little match practice and has made the place his own.
Coleman will be lucky to start the next day if Joe Bergin is back and goal aside Breathnach should not start the next day. One pleasing thing about yesterday was that all the subs brought on (Fitzy, Armstrong, Conroy, Lydon) did well when introduced which means there's competition for places.

However we can forget about going further if we can't win midfield. One thing I can't understand is if we are struggling at midfield why are not trying some short kick-outs to retain possession. ok there is an element of risk involved losing ball close to goal but if we cannot win ball at midfield, is it not worth a go?

The supply of ball into the Mayo forwards yesterday in the 1st half was terrible, big high booming balls into the likes of Conor and Andy, terrrible stuff. Conor and Andy need ball played out in front of them so they can run onto it and take there man on, that didnt happen yesterday at all.

In fairness in the first half I thought we almost had parity in midfield or at least something close to it. First 20 minutes of the second half though we seemed to lose our way around the middle. Coleman and Breatnach weren't helping out Cullinane much and with Mattie Clancy off injured our main breaking ball winner was off the field. Things improved in the final 15 minutes when Lydon and Conroy came on and Bradshaw was helping out around the middle as well by then. They were good switches in fairness and badly needed at the time.

QuoteHowever we can forget about going further if we can't win midfield. One thing I can't understand is if we are struggling at midfield why are not trying some short kick-outs to retain possession. ok there is an element of risk involved losing ball close to goal but if we cannot win ball at midfield, is it not worth a go?

We dont have a goalkeeper good enough to vary his kickouts like that. If you are going to use the short kickout, you need to be certain of it. Unfortunately, there is no goalie in Galway that can currently do that.

QuoteNallen and Heaney have been great servants but lets see more of the under 21's

Maybe thats the problem with the Mayo side now. People say "Lets look at the u21s but the young lads brought in yesterday were terrible for ye & ye had to go back to Gardiner & Higgins

Why did it take the management so long to make the changes to our fb line.
Boyle was being roasted after 10 mins and every time the ball came in and around our box
Galway looked like they could score a goal.Realistically Galway could have had 4 goals by
the time the changes were made,the 2 goals that were scored,joyces scuffed shot that went
wide and Clarke made an excellent save to prevent a goal.
Poor auld Austie was attrocious all day and as many posters have said hes just not up to
it at this level which is a shame cause i thought he could be the man at ff for us.
And to my final point CIARAN MC DONALD. would he have made a difference.
Personally i believe he would your best players should be on the pitch not sitting at home.
i think the game was there for the taking and with Mc Donald we would have won.

Look at the way PJ played yesterday, he started at 11, all the play went through him, he took all the frees, he dropped deep at times to pick up the ball and start attacks. Does this style remind you of anyone???

Quote from: mayoman dan on July 14, 2008, 01:46:29 PM
And to my final point CIARAN MC DONALD. would he have made a difference.
Personally i believe he would your best players should be on the pitch not sitting at home.
i think the game was there for the taking and with Mc Donald we would have won.

Fair enough he might have made a difference and with him we might have won (this is not certain in my opinion) but to focus on what difference Mac might have made is missing the point. Our forwards weren't really the problem it was our backs. We missed Howley more than we missed McD. Blake came back into the Galway defence and was a rock all day, it's no coincidence that for some of our period of dominance he was off the field with a blood injury. Howley is one of those players who will throw himself at everything and hold the middle way better than Heaney. We need him back, in my opinion if he was fully fit yesterday we would have won.

Quote from: Galforever on July 14, 2008, 01:04:56 PM

QuoteNallen and Heaney have been great servants but lets see more of the under 21's

Maybe thats the problem with the Mayo side now. People say "Lets look at the u21s but the young lads brought in yesterday were terrible for ye & ye had to go back to Gardiner & Higgins

I agree here to some extent on both counts. We need to get young lads through but you also need experience. Some of our young lads who are coming through mightn't be up to the challenge but the only way to find out is to test them. We have already brought Keith through and Howley is well good enough in my opinion, Cunniffe will improve and Barrett is unlucky to be injured. Add in the fact that Parsons, O'Shea, Kilcoyne, Campbell and Ronaldson are all there or thereabouts we are actually getting a fair percentage of that U21 team through. It has taken Galway a few years to mould their U21 winning side into a senior side but Hanley, Blake, Armstrong, Bane and Meehan all showed well yesterday. It may be next year before the U21 are able to take the full weight of Championship

Quote from: kevmy on July 14, 2008, 02:17:49 PM

Quote from: mayoman dan on July 14, 2008, 01:46:29 PM
And to my final point CIARAN MC DONALD. would he have made a difference.
Personally i believe he would your best players should be on the pitch not sitting at home.
i think the game was there for the taking and with Mc Donald we would have won.

Fair enough he might have made a difference and with him we might have won (this is not certain in my opinion) but to focus on what difference Mac might have made is missing the point. Our forwards weren't really the problem it was our backs. We missed Howley more than we missed McD. Blake came back into the Galway defence and was a rock all day, it's no coincidence that for some of our period of dominance he was off the field with a blood injury. Howley is one of those players who will throw himself at everything and hold the middle way better than Heaney. We need him back, in my opinion if he was fully fit yesterday we would have won.

Quote from: Galforever on July 14, 2008, 01:04:56 PM

QuoteNallen and Heaney have been great servants but lets see more of the under 21's

Maybe thats the problem with the Mayo side now. People say "Lets look at the u21s but the young lads brought in yesterday were terrible for ye & ye had to go back to Gardiner & Higgins

I agree here to some extent on both counts. We need to get young lads through but you also need experience. Some of our young lads who are coming through mightn't be up to the challenge but the only way to find out is to test them. We have already brought Keith through and Howley is well good enough in my opinion, Cunniffe will improve and Barrett is unlucky to be injured. Add in the fact that Parsons, O'Shea, Kilcoyne, Campbell and Ronaldson are all there or thereabouts we are actually getting a fair percentage of that U21 team through. It has taken Galway a few years to mould their U21 winning side into a senior side but Hanley, Blake, Armstrong, Bane and Meehan all showed well yesterday. It may be next year before the U21 are able to take the full weight of Championship

One particular forward was a huge problem and it was being shouted from the rooftops well in advance. I for one said he was pre-cooked for his Galway marker but I did nt need to be Einstein to figure that one out. I also know that in training both Liam O Malley and Aidan Higgins were the form defenders. Aidan brought that form onto the pitch. When I got back to the car yesterday Pat Fallon was saying that Johhno would have gone with the lads that were going best in training but they then just had bad days. I would dispute this. Johnno was sticking to his rebuilding project and did so until it crumbled before his eyes. By default he ended up with a better team than he started with. He s getting praise for turning things around but what nobody has mentioned is how the early substitutions left us with a bare cupboard at the end. Our midfield needed fresh legs with O Shea maybe and push Parsons up to get a score but we were limited to introducing Ronaldson to try an snatch a late score. Meanwhile Conroy and Lydon and made a telling contribution in the end game - Conroy having the legs to find space and kick the telling score. The MacDonald issue has been discussed to death. Davitt Man rightly points out the similarity between the way PJ controlled the game yesterday and what Mac used to do. Maybe we listen too much to these gurus and experts in the media that preach to us in Mayo about how we need to change our style, rebuild, get rid of players who lost All Irelands, blah blah and blah. We were capable of winning this Connacht if we had selected our best team available. I thought winning the Connacht with all the home advantage was a realistic attainable goal for this year. It would have given the players confidence, many of them have never won Connacht- on the pitch at any rate.They would have been able to go into a 1/4 with a degree of confidence but you d have to fear for us in the qualifier. No doubt Management and their apologists will spin a new agenda now.

Very despondent today. To lose to Galway is always sore. A one point defeat when we could have grasped it is more painful. Great game - well done to the Tribesmen, I think they are superior in all lines bar midfield and the half-forward line. Once they tightened things around the middle in the last 10 minues the scores came easily. The band aid on the defence in the first half was not as effective as many have said. It was our dominance around the middle that saved us from being exploited further. How many attacks of Galway's broke down because of good defending? Even more worrying is that 5 of the 6 backs that finished were torn asunder in the 2006 Final.

Yes it was our first real championship test but the problems that arose could have been rectified during the league. Two years into the JOM era there has been nothing of note achieved. There have been 3 teams picked by him for championship football and the three difficult games have been lost, are we now to have attempt number 4 in the qualifiers. The players are lacking but a gameplan could have been devised to overcome these shortcomings. I don't blame him on the McDonald front but his impact has been disappointing. Many times the manager has said he would like to be in the position of managing the team from the morning after the Dublin win in 2006. What would have changed if he had been in charge for the final? Nothing. Mickey Moran was a decent man who did a decent job and was humiliated by our inept County Board. We are getting what we deserve.

In fact this game was a mirror image of the league game. Galway scoring at will, including goals. Big lead pulled back. Carnage in our full-back line. Ausin O'Malley shown up. Joyce pulling the strings. Mayo with the chance to win. Galway cutness winning out.

QuoteDont know why Mayo players would give up at this point, they're only 1 game worse off than Galway. They've trained for 7 months plus and if theyd shown up for the 1st 25 minutes would now be the champions. They can put it right with one victory so dont think they should give up now.

Now despite what I have said this is very true. We only lost by a point (and it is a mixed blessing to have lost - in our current status we would be very vulnerable in Croke Park). However another game to hone things may bring us on for a glorious exit in either the quarters, or with luck the semis (remember we can't face the Kingdom until the semis). There is no point in ripping up the gameplan for this year. The back line does need work although I don't think it can be fixed short-term at this stage. The People's Hero should be shown the door and replaced with Kilcoyne (who has the ability to be a consistent free-taker, and who I felt was best placed for the last kick - can also score 45s), and probably Billie Joe for Trevor. Trevor Howley would add a bit of bite to the backs.

If the manager cannot get the team up for the next game he may as well pack his bags.

I'm glad to say this thread has not descended into bitterness like the last two games. I thought Dillon had a monster game for Mayo yesterday, scored a couple of great points to begin eating into the lead and one great free from far out into the wind. He was in bad luck that Mortimer didn't put him through on goal late on yesterday.

it's funny how the story would be if Mayo had pushed on for the win yesterday, the euphoria of coming back from 7 points down to win may have masked the genuine failings there were yesterday, by losing maybe they will be highlighted and rectified.

For Galway though the taks now is to push on and win our first quarter-final since 2001. i think the lads will be focused on this, they didn't want to be the first set of galway players to lose three Connacht finals in a row since the 30s. I wonder what would have happened if we lost yesterday. I'm sure we would be calling for the heads of some of the players. Hoepfully this will be the lift they need to get to the semis. Anything can happen after that!!

Quote from: Barney on July 14, 2008, 03:45:15 PM
Very despondent today. To lose to Galway is always sore. A one point defeat when we could have grasped it is more painful. Great game - well done to the Tribesmen, I think they are superior in all lines bar midfield and the half-forward line. Once they tightened things around the middle in the last 10 minues the scores came easily. The band aid on the defence in the first half was not as effective as many have said. It was our dominance around the middle that saved us from being exploited further. How many attacks of Galway's broke down because of good defending? Even more worrying is that 5 of the 6 backs that finished were torn asunder in the 2006 Final.

Yes it was our first real championship test but the problems that arose could have been rectified during the league. Two years into the JOM era there has been nothing of note achieved. There have been 3 teams picked by him for championship football and the three difficult games have been lost, are we now to have attempt number 4 in the qualifiers. The players are lacking but a gameplan could have been devised to overcome these shortcomings. I don't blame him on the McDonald front but his impact has been disappointing. Many times the manager has said he would like to be in the position of managing the team from the morning after the Dublin win in 2006. What would have changed if he had been in charge for the final? Nothing. Mickey Moran was a decent man who did a decent job and was humiliated by our inept County Board. We are getting what we deserve.

In fact this game was a mirror image of the league game. Galway scoring at will, including goals. Big lead pulled back. Carnage in our full-back line. Ausin O'Malley shown up. Joyce pulling the strings. Mayo with the chance to win. Galway cutness winning out.

QuoteDont know why Mayo players would give up at this point, they're only 1 game worse off than Galway. They've trained for 7 months plus and if theyd shown up for the 1st 25 minutes would now be the champions. They can put it right with one victory so dont think they should give up now.

Now despite what I have said this is very true. We only lost by a point (and it is a mixed blessing to have lost - in our current status we would be very vulnerable in Croke Park). However another game to hone things may bring us on for a glorious exit in either the quarters, or with luck the semis (remember we can't face the Kingdom until the semis). There is no point in ripping up the gameplan for this year. The back line does need work although I don't think it can be fixed short-term at this stage. The People's Hero should be shown the door and replaced with Kilcoyne (who has the ability to be a consistent free-taker, and who I felt was best placed for the last kick - can also score 45s), and probably Billie Joe for Trevor. Trevor Howley would add a bit of bite to the backs.

If the manager cannot get the team up for the next game he may as well pack his bags.

I never knew he said this. I m shocked. Very disrespectful to M and M.

Very cosy too gettin to manage a team already in an AI final. Problem is with him in charge there would nt have been a final. On last 2 years evidence we would nt have even got out of Connacht alive. There would have been no MacDonald [Moran was liberal with his training arrangements and his work circumstances were similar then] in the team, no O Neill probably and the ' People's Hero' starting every game ::)
And we would have beaten Dublin ::) He s havin a laugh. Thats gas altogether.

If Mayo were to win their next game is it possible that they could draw Galway in the Quarter Final? I think it is.

Quote from: moysider on July 14, 2008, 04:30:41 PM

Quote from: Barney on July 14, 2008, 03:45:15 PM
...Many times the manager has said he would like to be in the position of managing the team from the morning after the Dublin win in 2006....

I never knew he said this. I m shocked. Very disrespectful to M and M.

Very cosy too gettin to manage a team already in an AI final. Problem is with him in charge there would nt have been a final. On last 2 years evidence we would nt have even got out of Connacht alive. There would have been no MacDonald [Moran was liberal with his training arrangements and his work circumstances were similar then] in the team, no O Neill probably and the ' People's Hero' starting every game ::)
And we would have beaten Dublin ::) He s havin a laugh. Thats gas altogether.

I think in fairness you are taking one quote a little out of context there lads.

I get the impression he is talking about the decremental physiological effect that the 2006 All-Ireland final had on players.

His point is that if he had them after the 2006 All-Ireland Semi final that he would have had them better prepared mentally for an All-Ireland final against Kerry instead of treating it like "just another game"; which is what Moran & Morrison did. They played down the fixture as an all-Ireland final and didnt prepare properly. In that context its a fair statement by JOM; wanting to take control before that awful mental damage was done.

Quote from: Barney on July 14, 2008, 03:45:15 PM

Many times the manager has said he would like to be in the position of managing the team from the morning after the Dublin win in 2006.

I don't remember John O'Mahony saying this once, to say nothing of many times, and if he did say it I'm with Moysider. It's an appalling thing to say. Appalling. So much so that I'm having trouble believing it.

Can you double-check your sources Barney? It really is a serious thing to accuse O'Mahony of, and I think we'd best be sure before this blows out all proportion.

Excuse me for butting into a domestic dispute, but from a neutral point of view, if he said it, I'd take it to mean it would be a much easier proposition to be taking over a team that had just made a great comeback to win a huge game than one that had just had a demoralising mauling in an All-Ireland Final.

Quote from: AbbeySider on July 14, 2008, 05:04:44 PM

Quote from: moysider on July 14, 2008, 04:30:41 PM

Quote from: Barney on July 14, 2008, 03:45:15 PM
...Many times the manager has said he would like to be in the position of managing the team from the morning after the Dublin win in 2006....

I never knew he said this. I m shocked. Very disrespectful to M and M.

Very cosy too gettin to manage a team already in an AI final. Problem is with him in charge there would nt have been a final. On last 2 years evidence we would nt have even got out of Connacht alive. There would have been no MacDonald [Moran was liberal with his training arrangements and his work circumstances were similar then] in the team, no O Neill probably and the ' People's Hero' starting every game ::)
And we would have beaten Dublin ::) He s havin a laugh. Thats gas altogether.

I think in fairness you are taking one quote a little out of context there lads.

I get the impression he is talking about the decremental physiological effect that the 2006 All-Ireland final had on players.

His point is that if he had them after the 2006 All-Ireland Semi final that he would have had them better prepared mentally for an All-Ireland final against Kerry instead of treating it like "just another game"; which is what Moran & Morrison did. They played down the fixture as an all-Ireland final and didnt prepare properly. In that context its a fair statement by JOM; wanting to take control before that awful mental damage was done.

He d be better advised to get on with the job in hand rather than dwelling on Kerry 06. Yesterday was a final to be won too and personally I feel as gutted today as I did in 04, and 06 because we had enough to win yesterday. Yesterday our defence if anything was worse than Kerry 06 - Galway would not have been flattered with four first half goals yesterday. There is no evidence to suggest we d have been any better with him in charge in Sept 06. There is evidence to suggest that the team would not have been as successful that Summer. Remember Moran had only one year at it and while he may have got the final badly wrong he got a lot more right in 1 summer than current have in 2. As manager of Galway Johnno never beat a team as potent as Kerry 04-07. The 2000 Kerry team that beat Galway after replay were vastly inferior to 04-06 imo. His league record against Kerry would nt bear much scrutiny either. Playing Tommy Joyce as a third mid fielder on Seamus Moynihan lingers in the memory :o. Don t think he has any credibility saying that he would have spared  Mayo the physcological horrors of Sept 06.

He went into the Kerry game in 2000 without Ja Fallon, Tomas Mannion and a half fit Kevin Walsh standing on one leg and they still nearly pulled it off. Was a shame that we didn't beat Kerry from being 7 points down in 2000, they would never have lived that down.

Like Galway yesterday if we lsot!!!

I don't think it's fair to have too much of a go at O'Mahony. Can you really blame our defensive frailties on him? How many on here had serious issues with the team named during the week? Very few.

We all knew the backs were in trouble before the game and didn't think that any of the options on the bench were much better. Some people had an awful cut at Gardiner saying he was totally to blame for last years defeat to Galway and now he's our saviour? Fact of the matter is there is no outstanding FB in the county he is overlooking. There are feck all corner backs that he's overlooking either (only 2 corner backs pop into my head Dermot Geraghty - who opted out of the panel - and the young lad from Cross). Another fact our best defender during the league was injured which was a big blow. O'Mahoney can't manufacture players from thin air - he tries youth and is given out to for throwing untested young lads in at the deep end - he goes with experience and he's said to be dropping back on players who are past it. He will have to find the right blend and at this stage it looks like he'll have to go with 3 young lads (Higgins, Howley and Cunniffe) and 3 experienced lads (from Higgins, Nallen, Gardiner, Heaney).

The other charge levelled against O'Mahoney is starting Austie. While a lot of people have doubts about him - some of which are justified - most people would have said he deserved his run. He has gotten a fair roll of the dice of the back of his most consistent run (and form) in the team I think it's fair to say he didn't take it.

The McDonald issue is fair comment but does anybody seriously believe a great player past his prime can carry that defence to an AI title this year? I would say no. Now I'm not saying he shouldn't be in the panel I'm only raising the view that no one expected Sam this year and maybe now was a good a time as any to leave him out considering we have options up front that we don't have in backs.

On the back of this outing I would say that the team for the next day should go something like this:

                  Clarke

A Higgins      Nallen     K Higgins

Cunniffe      Howley     Heaney/Gardiner

       McGarrity       Parsons

Padden       Harte         Moran

Mort        Dillion         Kilcoyne

Now I'm presuming Trevor is out and Howley is in. Dillon to play in the withdrawn link role he played in the second half yesterday.

Anyway looking forward to the quarter-finals in 4 weeks time what Galway team should be taking the field that day. Something maybe like this?

Doherty
Fitzy
Hanley
Burke
Bradshaw
Blake
Deccie
Cullinane
Bergin (if fit)
N Joyce (if fit)
PJ
Bane
Clancy
Meehan
Breathnach???

Part of me wants to get Breathnach off the team asap but I think Sammon will persist with him. He will probably swap positions with Bane anyway and move out to the half-forward line. Question is then do you leave out Breathnach and replace him with Conroy or Coleman or do you leave him in the corner and have a straight swap with Armstrong? I think for now Conroy might be better off coming from the bench even though he's definitely a better footballer than Breathnach.

Plus if Bergin is fit do you play him? He may be fit enough to play but will have virtually no football behind him. Will be hard for him to be thrown straight into an All-Ireland quarter-final and difficult to see him lasting the whole game. Play him from the start until he's shagged out or keep him in reserve?

                               Clarke     
   
       A Higgins           Heaney         O Malley

       Cuniffe              Howley         K Higgins

                       Parsons       Mc Garrity
         
        A Moran           Harte            Dillon
       
        C Mort             B Moran        Campbell
   

The comment about the AI 2006 was said after he was appointed. Not in recent times. I wouldn't have a huge problem with it - basically he was saying that maybe things could have been done differently and the result improved, or that he would like to be at that stage. I don't think he would have.

Have been trawling the net and found this on the Mayo/Donegal League Final last year:

QuoteO'Mahony hopes to heal Mayo's scars

JOHN O'MAHONY felt the pain of All-Ireland SFC Final defeat in Croke Park last year more than any Mayo man, woman or child.

The former manager is back at the helm after delivering a Connacht title for Leitrim and two All-Irelands for Galway and once more, supporters are in hopeful mood.

Apart from his ambition of getting elected to the Dáil in the summer, there's nothing O'Mahony would relish more than getting back to Croke Park in September and being in a position to put things right.

To achieve what he almost managed the first time, in 1989, and what John Maughan (twice) and Mickey Moran also failed at.

More immediately, however, O'Mahony has his team in Croke Park tomorrow, for the final of the Allianz NFL final against Donegal. And, while the view might be taken that he's getting his excuses in first, he makes a point of emphasising the injury problems they have had to contend with. And, he has stated that any performance they have given so far 'would not be good enough' to beat the Ulster side.

In a less serious vein, he answers the doubters by pointing out that Mayo have 'a 100% record' in League finals — winning in 2001 in their only appearance 'this century.'

What he didn't say was that they beat Galway in the final and he was in charge at the time.

While he's not happy about the lack of consistency, he is not critical of players. In recent games they have had 'a problem starting off.' The irony is that in their opening games they played well up to half time -and then 'petered out.' "We haven't played really, it's as simple as that,'' he comments.

On the positive side, he says that the management found it very reassuring to see 'the enthusiasm and the energy' from the players over the winter months.

"The one thing that would have pleased me over the last ten weeks — the thing that pleased me the most — is the resilience they have shown, the belief that would have been questioned in the past with Mayo teams. But, of the last four games, Mayo have won them by a single point in very tight finishes.

"That has been very pleasing. What worries us is the long list of injuries.''

The plus side of this is that about 25 players were blooded over the course of the competition. "What I say is that there's great commitment and great passion for football in the county and that has made our job easier over the spring time. It's nice for the players to get the reward of playing in the final — as well as it being good preparation for the championship, whatever the result.''

He regards Donegal as 'overwhelming favourites,' crediting Brian McIver with 'a fantastic job,' most notably in developing a different style of play.

"Over the years Donegal played it very short. Now, when they get to the middle of the field, they pump in long diagonal ball,'' he explains. "Apart from changing their style, he has got everybody (available) playing for Donegal — the best players in the county, big strong men. He has many of the traits of winning championship teams, not to mention winning League teams.

"The evidence is there. Back in January, Donegal was one of the teams I picked for a serious championship run. They played Cork (last year, in the All-Ireland quarter-final) and lost, but they had quality players to add — like Colm McFadden, like Brendan Devenney, like Kevin Cassidy and the McGees. It's no surprise to me that they have been doing so well.''

O'Mahony is also revealing about the type of work the Mayo management have been doing behind the scenes. Without admitting that he agreed with the view, he points out that what Mayo supporters felt after the defeat to Kerry was that their team was lacking both in physical and mental strength. Either way, these are two particular areas he has been devoting a lot of attention to. For instance, they have a number of Under-21 players (who aren't in the team for tomorrow) doing weight-training programmes.

"I saw that as important going forward for Mayo,'' he said. "And, mental strength is something I would work on with any team. It helps some and maybe it doesn't help others, but it's an areas we will be concentrating on.

"We try and leave nothing undone to advance the cause of Mayo. The ingredients you need for winning teams is commitment first of all and talent and I think Mayo have a lot of that.

"Mayo have a record of being one of the top two or three teams in the country. Last year was a good example, when they were fantastic in the semi-final. And then the final went the opposite direction.

"We are not in that situation yet, so we don't have to deal with that. We are dealing with the League and we have a mammoth first round (championship) game.

"But I have said this many times over the winter, that I would be delighted to be in the stage Mayo were at on the Monday morning after the Dublin win and take them there to the final. We'll deal with it if it comes. And, we'd have a few ideas on maybe how to work it!''  

QuotePlus if Bergin is fit do you play him?

Of course you'd play Bergin. We are so weak at midfield that you have no option at all.

Quote from: Galforever on July 14, 2008, 06:46:42 PM

QuotePlus if Bergin is fit do you play him?

Of course you'd play Bergin. We are so weak at midfield that you have no option at all.

Well the question was more do you start him or keep him on the bench? I was just thinking of when he got injured before the championship a few years ago and came back just before the Cork game in the quarter-finals. He was miles off the pace that day understandably but we might have no choice but to throw him in from the beginning.

Quote from: kevmy on July 14, 2008, 05:54:45 PM
I don't think it's fair to have too much of a go at O'Mahony. Can you really blame our defensive frailties on him? How many on here had serious issues with the team named during the week? Very few.

We all knew the backs were in trouble before the game and didn't think that any of the options on the bench were much better. Some people had an awful cut at Gardiner saying he was totally to blame for last years defeat to Galway and now he's our saviour? Fact of the matter is there is no outstanding FB in the county he is overlooking. There are feck all corner backs that he's overlooking either (only 2 corner backs pop into my head Dermot Geraghty - who opted out of the panel - and the young lad from Cross). Another fact our best defender during the league was injured which was a big blow. O'Mahoney can't manufacture players from thin air - he tries youth and is given out to for throwing untested young lads in at the deep end - he goes with experience and he's said to be dropping back on players who are past it. He will have to find the right blend and at this stage it looks like he'll have to go with 3 young lads (Higgins, Howley and Cunniffe) and 3 experienced lads (from Higgins, Nallen, Gardiner, Heaney).

The other charge levelled against O'Mahoney is starting Austie. While a lot of people have doubts about him - some of which are justified - most people would have said he deserved his run. He has gotten a fair roll of the dice of the back of his most consistent run (and form) in the team I think it's fair to say he didn't take it.

The McDonald issue is fair comment but does anybody seriously believe a great player past his prime can carry that defence to an AI title this year? I would say no. Now I'm not saying he shouldn't be in the panel I'm only raising the view that no one expected Sam this year and maybe now was a good a time as any to leave him out considering we have options up front that we don't have in backs.

On the back of this outing I would say that the team for the next day should go something like this:

                   Clarke

A Higgins      Nallen     K Higgins

Cunniffe      Howley     Heaney/Gardiner

        McGarrity       Parsons

Padden       Harte         Moran

Mort        Dillion         Kilcoyne

Now I'm presuming Trevor is out and Howley is in. Dillon to play in the withdrawn link role he played in the second half yesterday.

Yes we can blame our defensive fraility on him. He s the manager. He picked and organised -or not - this defence. McHugh said today that he only saw Boyle and Conroy once - against Donegal - and they did nt look up to it. Apparently Johnno thought different. Yesterday he found out for sure. Now Boyle and Conroy are good footballers but they re  half back and midfielders. Johnno said he had a hunch that Conroy could play full back. He was wrong. The damning thing about it is these lads looked as raw yesterday as their first league match - and petrified with fear. If any coaching was done on their defensive game it did nt show. Their positioning was wrong, could nt track a run, could nt stand a forward up - stuff they could have been taught. Turns out he left better defenders on the bench and while the subs improved things it left us short on options later in the game. I for one had serious issue with the team for some time. Lumping it into lads in a public forum coming up to a Connacht final is not the thing to do though.

The only game we did nt leak goal chances like a drain was when we played Kerry and Trevor played sweeper. We need that protection but it was nt continued which was a major mistake. Effectively we had only 5 forwards anyway so we would have been better off with a sweeper system. It would suit us too as we re a running possession team. Last Galway scores too could have been prevented by an extra body back. A carrying team needs that protection when ball is turned over into a stiff wind.

Geraghty opted out when it became obvious he would nt be getting game time. Who is the young lad from Cross again?

Most of us we re nt even thinking about Sam but Nestor was winnable. Why leave MacDonald out? Why did nt Sammon leave Padraig out? Galway have more forward options. What options have we? Austin or Andy did nt score. If we had one right forward to help Dillon we d have coasted home by 4.

Your team is nt bad. Here is mine.

                                            Clarke

A. Higgins                          Nallen                              K. Higgins

                                      BJ  Padden

D . Heaney                       T Howley                          L. O Malley


                       T. Parsons                  R McGarrity.

A. Dillon                             P. Harte                           T Mortimor


              C. Mortimor                                A. Moran

I expect Trevor Mort to be fit. Dont think its a torn hamstring [ if it is he s fucked] It was his own daft doing anyway. Made a crazy lunge to stop a run and took a knee to the hamstring. Might be a dead leg and he gets away with it.

what more do kilcoyne and gardiner have to do to make it on to peoples teams? they swing the game around completly  with higgins when they came on bring back our usual quick moving style of play which is my main gripe against austin when he is ther esome of the team seem to think he is a donahy or Cussen type figure and ignorantly blasting the ball into him when in fact Austin is only ever usefull when he gets easy ball on slow ground when he can seem devastating.
speaking of which even in the second half  the number of high balls sent in between conor and hanley was stupid in the extreme. almost designed to make him look bad.
but all in it was a much improve mayo performance and if the manager can put his Ego to one side we could have a right good summer yet. Better i suspect than galway for who if joyce is Marked would have have little enough to offer apart from meehan and even he need the type of quality ball only joyce was providiing. . but as i said before the match poor defending makes all stars of forwards and joyce has probably secured his already.

Quote from: rosnarun on July 14, 2008, 08:47:14 PMBetter i suspect than galway for who if joyce is Marked would have have little enough to offer apart from meehan and even he need the type of quality ball only joyce was providiing. . but as i said before the match poor defending makes all stars of forwards and joyce has probably secured his already.

Any chance we could get you to predict a win for whoever we're playing in the quarter-finals? I feel a lot better about things once our opponents have received the rosnarun seal of approval. ;D

Quote from: Barney on July 14, 2008, 04:56:02 PM
If Mayo were to win their next game is it possible that they could draw Galway in the Quarter Final? I think it is.

That is correct.

I can't say I enjoy having a go at O'Mahony. It's just that he seems to keep on planting his arse in front of me.
He keeps on leaving himself open.
Sure, he'd love to have taken the team after the game against Dublin; who wouldn't?
But, would the result against Kerry have been any different?
Mickey took a calculated gamble that failed to pay off; if it had been successful he would have been hailed as a tactical genius. He had hoped to impress on the side that he was in no way responsible for the 2004 debacle. Here was a new manager, a fresh team and another season. He wanted a fresh beginning.
Unfortunately, it didn't work for him so he got the bum's rush.
But what else could he have done? Would the Messiah have been able to go one better?
O'Mahony took over the team as Mickey left it. He did have a pretty satisfactory league run with this side, going all the way to the league final.
I'm quoting from Barney's last post:

QuoteOn the positive side, he says that the management found it very reassuring to see 'the enthusiasm and the energy' from the players over the winter months.

"The one thing that would have pleased me over the last ten weeks — the thing that pleased me the most — is the resilience they have shown, the belief that would have been questioned in the past with Mayo teams. But, of the last four games, Mayo have won them by a single point in very tight finishes.

That resilience had been instilled into them by Mickey and no one else.
Remember the tight finishes against Galway, Laois and finally Dublin on the way to the final?
Furthermore, O'Mahony took the same side to the league final, surviving four very tight finishes along the way, as O'Mahony himself states. No signs of mental burnout form the 2006 final to be seen.
The story has been put about that the collapse in Salthill was somehow a residue of the trauma of the previous September. All credible evidence points elsewhere.
Mayo's preparations were a shambles and he had to make wholesale switches almost from the throw in.  The manager's mind was on the General Elections and it showed. After a nightmare start, Mayo fought back strongly but the damage had been done in the opening 20 minutes and try as they did, they couldn't overcome Galway's dream start. But there was little or no evidence of mental burnout to be seen and anyway Galway and not Kerry were providing the opposition, so why should there have been a collective mental breakdown?
In short, the Messiah deserves credit for much of what he has done since taken over but I'd be wary of any attempts to re-write history by him or any of his supporters.

Is O'Mahony still a lucky general?

With 5 mins to go yesterday I was beginning to think he was.  And maybe despite the one point loss he still is. He has got  media credit (that's what matters most to Mayo managers) for the changes and for the second half comeback. And the media consensus is that really this was a draw that Galway won!!!

However I am inclined to think that he was lucky yesterday and the comeback had little to do with him. The early Galway dominance had as much to do with Mayo's sluggish approach all over the field, their failure to win dirty ball and to put in convincing tackles. In such a situation the full back line will always be the fall guys.  Mayo's coming back into the game had as much to do with Harte and Dillon coming into the game more plus some good old fashioned heart blooded play from Nallen and Heaney. Not sure the rejigged full back line would have done much better if Galway outfield dominance had continued.
One of the effects of the drastic surgery taken by Johnno was as Moysider pointed out that Mayo had no fresh legs to bring on with 10 mins to go (Mortimer's injury did not help). Having fought hard to come back into the game I think Mayo just ran out of steam and without fresh legs (as Galway had) they gave away a couple of very handy points in the last 5 mins. Again questions must be asked of Johnno  and his selection and tactics – however instead he is credited with a great comeback effort.

Of course Mayo could have won it. In a close game like this little things make a difference and Mortimer's first half miss from an easy free was an example of this.  However at the end of the game I was asking myself – what has O'Mahony brought to this team that was not there under Maughan or M&M.  Could not see anything. The one thing I would have thought he would bring was intensity from the start – yet Mayo were very flat for the first 20 mins when the game was lost.
Not sure about the qualifiers. In terms of ability and players available Mayo are as good as half a dozen teams who could be there or thereabouts towards the end of August.  Whether they have the desire or confidence in the manager is another thing.

QuotePadden, A Higgins, Gardiner and Kilcoyne will all have to start the next day. I thought Pat Harte had an absolutely outstanding match, he really is a class act.

Is this "class act" a Mayo saying.  I seem to remember a famous Mayo politician using it on the Late Late about his daughter. The match commentator yesterday (who I think is from Mayo) used it a few times and I have a good friend from Mayo who never fails to use it (usually when talking about some Mayo footballer). 

QuoteMickey took a calculated gamble that failed to pay off; if it had been successful he would have been hailed as a tactical genius.

this is the type of anti logic that drives me nuts.  of course if he had done the right thing he would be considered a tactical genius but the fact is that he didn't. doesn't mean he should have been sacked but at least try and  keep you reasons  rational.

I wont be giving galway the seal of approval untill i see who they are playing. but rest assured i let you know in good time.

QuoteIs O'Mahony still a lucky general?

Well his luck ran out yesterday if he is. FFS, I still cannot understand the decision to leave Heaney 'on' Joyce. As well as that, Lar said that there should have been intensity from the start, a kind of get in among them, but none. I admit, I was happy when JOM took the job at the start, but he has done nothing new really. I hate to say it but we won't win an AI under O'Mahony. I hope I'm wrong though.

Quote from: Farrandeelin on July 14, 2008, 11:29:39 PM

QuoteIs O'Mahony still a lucky general?

Well his luck ran out yesterday if he is. FFS, I still cannot understand the decision to leave Heaney 'on' Joyce. As well as that, Lar said that there should have been intensity from the start, a kind of get in among them, but none. I admit, I was happy when JOM took the job at the start, but he has done nothing new really. I hate to say it but we won't win an AI under O'Mahony. I hope I'm wrong though.

Lets face it maybe we just don't have the players, 3 different managers are still basically using the same team as Maughan had in 2004. There have been a few changes in personnel but 3 different management teams have failed to find the key players that might be lurking some where in the county. We cant keep blaming the managers for the players short comings.

Quote from: rosnarun on July 14, 2008, 08:47:14 PM
what more do kilcoyne and gardiner have to do to make it on to peoples teams? they swing the game around completly  with higgins when they came on bring back our usual quick moving style of play which is my main gripe against austin when he is ther esome of the team seem to think he is a donahy or Cussen type figure and ignorantly blasting the ball into him when in fact Austin is only ever usefull when he gets easy ball on slow ground when he can seem devastating.
speaking of which even in the second half  the number of high balls sent in between conor and hanley was stupid in the extreme. almost designed to make him look bad.
but all in it was a much improve mayo performance and if the manager can put his Ego to one side we could have a right good summer yet. Better i suspect than galway for who if joyce is Marked would have have little enough to offer apart from meehan and even he need the type of quality ball only joyce was providiing. . but as i said before the match poor defending makes all stars of forwards and joyce has probably secured his already.

In Kilcoynes case it would help if he had nailed 2 very reasonable chances that he missed after his well taken goal. Those and Billy Joe s miss and conor s selfishness, or lack of vision near the end - not sure which is worse - would have won the day, Galways young lads nailed their chances. thats the difference. Until Likes of O Shea and  hopefully Walsh on the minor team come through we wont have a top forward to go with Dillon. And that is the rock we will perish on again.

As for Gardiner he did well coming on the last day but I prefer a halfback line of say Heaney Howley and O Malley. I was also disappointed Gardiner opted out of an opportunity yesterday to run and draw a challenge on Cullinane. It could have drawn a second yellow for the big man and that would be fair enough in my book because his clothesline on A Higgins was borderline at best and he s a sending off waiting to happen most games it seems. Gardiner should have taken one for the team but kicked a nothing ball down the wing.

Would agree re Kilcoyne Moysider - couple of very kickable chances that he failed to convert, he wasn't the only one that missed easy chances but he appears to be the most consistent at it if you know what I mean. Every time he gets the ball it's 50/50 as to whether or not he can do the right thing with it and until that rate improves I'd be inclined to leave him on the bench, can't be trusted just yet.

Quote from: FL/MAYO on July 14, 2008, 11:49:45 PM

Quote from: Farrandeelin on July 14, 2008, 11:29:39 PM

QuoteIs O'Mahony still a lucky general?

Well his luck ran out yesterday if he is. FFS, I still cannot understand the decision to leave Heaney 'on' Joyce. As well as that, Lar said that there should have been intensity from the start, a kind of get in among them, but none. I admit, I was happy when JOM took the job at the start, but he has done nothing new really. I hate to say it but we won't win an AI under O'Mahony. I hope I'm wrong though.

Lets face it maybe we just don't have the players, 3 different managers are still basically using the same team as Maughan had in 2004. There have been a few changes in personnel but 3 different management teams have failed to find the key players that might be lurking some where in the county. We cant keep blaming the managers for the players short comings.

Sorry to differ. We do have the players. Maybe not to win Sam this year or next but players to do better than we ve done last two years. Clarke, Nallen, 2 Higgins, Heaney, Howley, Parsons, Mcgarrity, Harte, Dillon and 2 Mortimors are as good a player as other top counties have apart from Kerry. Sure many have their faults but so have players in every team their doubters - within their own county. A few others, 2 O Sé s ,McLoughlin, Cuniffe, maybe Cafferkey will be along soon. There was very little wrong with the team Maughan and Moran had. They met one of the great teams in AI finals and did nt have the tactical nous or game winners that Tyrone had in 05 to make a game of it. We were not as good as Tyrone 05 but we could have made a better fist of things. No reason to listen to the vultures in the press and beat ourselves up like we did after. We ve done our rivals [eg.Galway] a favour and blown the last 2 years as a result. Mayo people need to realise not to listen to likes of Eugene McGee, Spillane, Lyons etc and get on with it. Those do not have the better interest of our team at heart. For them Mayo misery is probably a more profitable story than a Mayo win. To hell with them. I feel we ve let outside influence, as well as  likes of the club delegate from a South Mayo club [ actually a Ros man]- caling players ladeens at a county board meeting, ferment the mood for Moran sacking and set the agenda last 2 years. At least 1 of those ladeens came on and settled us down the last day. Fair play to him for sticking around.

The problem has been that there was a purge mood after those defeats and both managers and players were treated abysmally. Managers were summarily dismissed and decent players like A. Higgins, Pat Kelly, Nallen, Dermot Geraghty  and MacDonald were scapegoated. Others like McGarrity were abused at club matches.

Maughan got us places. Moran got great respect and performances from the players until Kerry. However he was nt political enough to press the right buttons with the county board and I ve always felt he was nt in a position of strength as a result to make the hard calls with the players about the necessary and obvious tactics to take on Kerry in the final. I dont think they were ruthless enough with team selection and tactics.

There are no key players lurking around the county. Some we have underused like David Tiernan but nobody that would obviously improve matters and certainly no key players. Some craven journalists, even in the local press - like Rice in the mayo News - were describing Tom Parsons as a Johnno find. As they did with Hanley last year. Anybody in the county with a pulse would have seen those lads coming from u16 at latest. Why are we subjected to this shite?  Notice how Rice and Co. have kept onside as regards the Johnno loss - a certain key player in Crossmolina. How shitty is that.

Johnno has always struck me as a man who is impressed by what the gurus have to say. In a Year Til Sunday he held up the McGee article about 'fancy dans' to the Galway panel. Last week McGee hailed Johnno as the best manager in last 20 years. Today McGee questioned the integrity of the Mayo players - not the manager. Johnno played McHale full forward, with disastrous results on at least 1 occasion in his first incarnation with Mayo, because I believe Micko recommended it in media work. Last year it was Barry Moran a la Donaghy. This year it was  Austin on the point of a pyramid like Donegal often play- a Carney influence?  Another car crash. Good tactic, bad personnel. I wish he would make up his mind. Great coaches put their own stamp on a team.

Anyway we handed Galway this one. To be honest the way he s being going about it it looks like Johnno has stilll been managing Galway the last 2 years. Johnno must realise he has lads that will give their all for the jersey, but he needs to play them. He needs to recognise those that rescued his reputation the last day and nurture those for the rest of this Summer. Because after 20 minutes his preferred team was a rabble. It was nt Johnno who turned around another embarasement the last day but much maligned players that deserve better than chasing a situation that was the result of whim and poor judgement by management. If he s the man he can still rescue the situation and that is what he has to do.

I agree with what a lot of people are saying here - JOM is getting a bit more praise than he is due regarding 'quick' changes.

A lot of us on this board signalled problems in advance regarding the two defenders that were withdrawn. Its a pity for them because they both have something to offer, but just not in the positions they were placed. Now they may easily drift into the wilderness.

Also I've repeatedly asked why Aidan Higgins isn't starting on this team. He was given very little chance in the league but came on the last day and showed us he is definitely still made of the right stuff.

What we know from Sunday is that we've been unable to bring through any class defender yet since 2006. Barney pointed out that five of the six backs that started against Kerry in 06 finished on Sunday. Tom Cunniffe was the exception and he hasn't set the world alight yet. Trevor Howley of course would have played were it not for injury. He had a great league but we've yet to see him in championship. I think (and hope) he'll be up to it.

However for me the most frustrating thing about Sunday was that Heaney was left on Joyce for so long. We all said about how Heaney had this great record on Joyce but PJ turned the tables on Sunday and Mayo really needed someone to get tighter on him than Heaney was.

I had said myself that Conor and Andy Moran could be the match winners. Definitely wrong on that score. Conor looked a beaten ticket as soon as he kicked that 21 yard free wide and Andy continued to frustrate.
Austy was very poor and I think we've seen the end of him at no 14.
We had three excellent performers in the half-forward line.
Dillon and Harte led the fightback and Dillon thankfully looked like the player from two years ago, not the shadow of himself that he was last year.
For me though Trevor was on the way to the man of the match when he went off injured. If, as Moysider says, its merely a dead leg rather than a hamstring tear, we should be grateful because we need him badly for the qualifiers.
I'd be inclined to look at playing a team like this

Clarke
A Higgins D Heaney J Nallen
K Higgins T Howley T Cunniffe
McGarrity Parsons
B Padden P Harte T Mortimer
C Mortimer A Dillon A Moran

Billy Padden to drop back as an extra defender and Dillon to flirt between ff and the forty depending on the need.
I still wouldn't start Kilcoyne because he is too wasteful imo and Gardiner will be somewhat unlucky but I don't see who he can displace if Howley is back and fully fit

QuoteThis is the type of anti logic that drives me nuts.  of course if he had done the right thing he would be considered a tactical genius but the fact is that he didn't. doesn't mean he should have been sacked but at least try and  keep you reasons  rational.

That's exactly what I've said; the blame for the fiasco was pinned on Mickey by the county boarded and he had to be sacrificed on the grounds of expediency. Sean Freeney, the secretary, had been expressing his disaffection in public about the way Mickey was spending money on the lads, booking into hotels for overnight stays for league games, which was the norm in Ulster.
He brought them to the final and the side imploded so Mickey had to go. I do believe the county board had opened negotiations with O'Mahony before this happened and anyway Mickey was disliked at board level because of the expenses he was incurring.
But he had taken them a hard road to the final where they showed great resilience all along the line.
Besides, in 96 and 2004 John Maughan saw his teams freezing on the day so Mickey was not unusual in that but he was scapegoated to make way for O'Mahony.
Now, I do give O'Mahony due credit for what he has done and he has developed a promising squad of young players but it appears than excuses are being spun to explain his less that impressive season last year.
He has said that he'd have loved to take charge after the Dublin match and the implication is that he'd have taken them the whole way. At best, that assertion is dubious. I doubt if anyone could have psyched the team up sufficiently to match a fine Kerry team .In any event, he inherited the most of Mickey's side and got them through a hard league campaign for a final meeting with Donegal, the form team at the time and short-listed favourites for the All Ireland..
There were no signs of mental exhaustion to be seen and, by O'Mahony's own admission, they showed great resilience, surviving four very close matches. So, where were the signs of emotional burnout during that campaign?
Things went totally pear-shaped against Galway in Salthill and the story was spun that the team just couldn't face another championship season. Not so. The state of preparations was awful and the team selected was unravelled at the start when Peter Ford simply moved his half forward closer in, trapping our half backs in the corners. By the time the Messiah had made the needed changes Galway were too far in front to be caught.
Hacks, supporters of O'Mahony in the local media mainly, put this down to most of the lads being unable to get stuck in to another championship campaign.
They neglect to remind us that Mayo did step up considerably in the second half and for long periods had Galway on the back foot; bloody little signs of post All Ireland stress were to be seen.
The impending General Election probably was taking up far more of his time and energy than what was going on in Pearse Park.
I am not on any sort of personal vendetta here and I try to give the man fair credit where it's due but I dislike signs of history being re-written in his favour.

I think people here are being very selective about what happened after the 2006 final in relation to the resignation/removal of Mickey Moran.

A number of things need to be remembered

Mickey Moran and John Morrison fell out after the 2006 final over the tactics they employed in the final (one of them decided to go for the 'lets try out shoot Kerry' method despite reservations of the other - I'm not sure which of them tbh)

As a result when Moran met with the county board to review his year he did so without Morrison and told the county board it would only be himself involved, that Morrison was finished.
Now they came as a team and it can be argued that each of them thrived off the opposing characterestics of the other and that without one of them, the management team was considerably weakened.
This may have perhaps suited an agenda in the county board that a lot of people alude to but its disingenuous to suggest that Moran was sacked for just losing one game. He wasn't maintained because Morrison was no longer with him.
If Moran and Morrison went back for that interview together and the county board still said no, well then you would be 100% correct to be cynical.
But that's not how it turned out.
I don't think its doing anyone any favours to be raking over these coals again

Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on July 14, 2008, 06:09:20 PM
Anyway looking forward to the quarter-finals in 4 weeks time what Galway team should be taking the field that day. Something maybe like this?

Doherty
Fitzy
Hanley
Burke
Bradshaw
Blake
Deccie
Cullinane
Bergin (if fit)
N Joyce (if fit)
PJ
Bane
Clancy
Meehan
Breathnach???

Part of me wants to get Breathnach off the team asap but I think Sammon will persist with him. He will probably swap positions with Bane anyway and move out to the half-forward line. Question is then do you leave out Breathnach and replace him with Conroy or Coleman or do you leave him in the corner and have a straight swap with Armstrong? I think for now Conroy might be better off coming from the bench even though he's definitely a better footballer than Breathnach.

Plus if Bergin is fit do you play him? He may be fit enough to play but will have virtually no football behind him. Will be hard for him to be thrown straight into an All-Ireland quarter-final and difficult to see him lasting the whole game. Play him from the start until he's shagged out or keep him in reserve?

Bergin probably wont be fit enough to start and to be honest he will have played no serious football in 3 months so I think the best we can expect from him is possibly 15 - 20 mins at most.  He will be needed though and could yet have a vital role to play in the remainder of the championship, even from the bench.  Coleman to keep the spot fro now.  Other than that, the team above is fair enough.  Bradshaw has the makings of a very good attacking half back (my preferred position for him) and is well fit to kick scores when the opportunity arises.  Have to say I was delighted with Blakes contribution on Sunday, thought he put he a super 75mins for a lad who has played feck all football in recent months.  Breathnach seems to be Sammons lucky charm! Its hard to see him being dropped at this stage but at least we seem to have plenty of options in the forwards now as both Conroy and Armstrong got crucial scores when introduced the last day. Hopefully Nicky is not too badly injured, he is in poor enough form but the fecker has so much natural ability that Croke Park may be the stage for him to really kick start his season.  

The win on Sunday in Castlebar was a massive boost and the players should be full of confidence heading for the quarters where a victory is vital IMO to the continued development of this squad.  We havent won there since 2001  :-\.  After that we are in bonus territory this year.  We have flaws, one major, but at this stage of the championship I have yet to see a performance from any team that suggests that they are nailed on to win SAM.  

Quote from: moysider on July 14, 2008, 11:56:17 PM

As for Gardiner he did well coming on the last day but I prefer a halfback line of say Heaney Howley and O Malley. I was also disappointed Gardiner opted out of an opportunity yesterday to run and draw a challenge on Cullinane. It could have drawn a second yellow for the big man and that would be fair enough in my book because his clothesline on A Higgins was borderline at best and he s a sending off waiting to happen most games it seems. Gardiner should have taken one for the team but kicked a nothing ball down the wing.

Peadar did take one for the team when he got nailed by Damien Burke after receiving a bit of a hospital pass on the standside wing. I'd be more concerned about the nervous lambs in the full back line in the first half "not taking one for the team".

Bringing Gardiner and Higgins in put down a marker to the Galway forwards. After the first 30 mins they were c**k sure of themselves (and rightly so) When the lads came in, things changed as they had to start chasing back, fighting harder for possession and all of a sudden things werent half as easy as they had been.

I thought Billy Joe did very well when he came on. He's a fairly big fella with plenty of strength. He will always make it difficult for the backs coming out with the ball, which has to be physically draining for them as well.

Dillon is a fine player and he is definitely our main man up front. Andy would want to start scoring some points. All the ball winning is not enough, if the scoring is been left to Mort and Dillon. If both are tied up, then we are ducked.

P Joyce was the match winner in the end. I was in the process of yapping about how he was a bit quieter in the second half and sure enough he pops up with a point. Maybe Heaney should have been switched off him at that stage.

Qualifier Team

Clarke
Heaney
Nallen
A Higgins
Gardiner
Cunniffe
K Higgins
Parsons
McGarrity
BJP
Harte
T Mort
Kilcoyne/moran
Dillon
Mort

Its a powerful half forward line with either of two being capable of sweeping up loose ball towards there own goal if required.

I agree mostly with that. I think Joyce brought that up being interviewed after the match that we haven't won there since
2001 so I think the lads will be focused on that.

I think Armstrong, Conroy and Lydon all did well when introduced the last day so maybe keeping them in reserve is the best option.

QuoteBergin probably wont be fit enough to start and to be honest he will have played no serious football in 3 months so I think the best we can expect from him is possibly 15 - 20 mins at most.  He will be needed though and could yet have a vital role to play in the remainder of the championship, even from the bench.  Coleman to keep the spot fro now.  Other than that, the team above is fair enough.  Bradshaw has the makings of a very good attacking half back (my preferred position for him) and is well fit to kick scores when the opportunity arises.  Have to say I was delighted with Blakes contribution on Sunday, thought he put he a super 75mins for a lad who has played feck all football in recent months.  Breathnach seems to be Sammons lucky charm! Its hard to see him being dropped at this stage but at least we seem to have plenty of options in the forwards now as both Conroy and Armstrong got crucial scores when introduced the last day. Hopefully Nicky is not too badly injured, he is in poor enough form but the fecker has so much natural ability that Croke Park may be the stage for him to really kick start his season. 

The win on Sunday in Castlebar was a massive boost and the players should be full of confidence heading for the quarters where a victory is vital IMO to the continued development of this squad.  We havent won there since 2001  .  After that we are in bonus territory this year.  We have flaws, one major, but at this stage of the championship I have yet to see a performance from any team that suggests that they are nailed on to win SAM.   

We have to play Bergin, There is no argument to be made here. We are just so weak at midfield that we need to play him. You have pointed out how Blake was able to come to the pace of the game so why cant Bergin? The next match isnt until August 10th. Thats plenty of time to get fully fit for Bergin.

QuoteI think people here are being very selective about what happened after the 2006 final in relation to the resignation/removal of Mickey Moran.

For my part, I'd regard any reference to Mickey/Beefer as peripheral to the point I've been trying to raise.
What I have been homing in on is O'Mahony's statement that he would have loved to take over team over after the Dublin win. The clear implication therein is that the final result would have been different if Johnno had been in charge and not Mickey/Beefer and that the effects of the mauling explained away the inept performance of his team in last year's championships.
Our manager, any manager, is entitled to his fair share of due credit but the reverse should also hold true. Fair and objective criticism should also be expressed when it is called for.
On its own, the above statement wouldn't bother me very much. But when you add in the widely assumed view that somehow the after-effects of that mauling in the final led to player burnout in the championships I'd object strongly.
The facts just don't support this spin on the story of how Mayo underperformed last year in Salthill.
There was little or no sign of lack of hunger in their bellies as his team made it all the way to the league final, with O'Mahony himself praising their resilience.
Furthermore, after the initial blitz by Galway, Mayo rallied strongly and gave a very credible display. My contention is that O'Mahony's attention lay elsewhere, probably with the impending General Election. He put together a team that was hastily selected and that he had to start re-jigging almost from the throw-in and he was tactically outfoxed with ease by Peter Ford.
I know this is also raking over coals but I feel the record should be kept straight, even if it's only to stop Mickey and Beefer being unfairly maligned.

firstly congrats to galway on sundays win great second Half especially. With regards the match we were brutul in the first 25 minutes aNd gave galway a 7 point adavantage which was allway hard to come back from and in fairness to the lads they nearly did. However some of the coments by the local press that Jom did everthing in his power to turn the game around is utter bullshit he made the changes after we had conceded two goals and a blind man could see after 10 minutes that the fullback line was taking water also Austie, ( i know every player does their best ) should not have lasted untill the 40th minute before been substituted. Now i know that we are not allowed to speak Badly of Johnno but so far his record since returning is appalling how ever people will say that he is working with whats available we thats true ( well not really but we won't go there) however the same was for Maughan, Holmes and Micky Moran . He was speaking all along on building for the future yet 5 of the Six backs that finished in sunday played in the 2006 Ai final , time to stop talking of building for the future bullshit this is 2008 and Age should not come into it no use playing a young lad just for the sake of it if there is a better more experienced player sitting dug out, the person who won the game for Galway was pj who was a prime example that age does not matter , blake was also outstanding in the backs and mayo came into it when he was off injured for about 6 or 7 minutes inthe 2nd half. Hopefully we will regroup and John o will get the best out of the players and stop the bullshit

Quote from: Galforever on July 15, 2008, 10:22:08 AM

QuoteBergin probably wont be fit enough to start and to be honest he will have played no serious football in 3 months so I think the best we can expect from him is possibly 15 - 20 mins at most.  He will be needed though and could yet have a vital role to play in the remainder of the championship, even from the bench.  Coleman to keep the spot fro now.  Other than that, the team above is fair enough.  Bradshaw has the makings of a very good attacking half back (my preferred position for him) and is well fit to kick scores when the opportunity arises.  Have to say I was delighted with Blakes contribution on Sunday, thought he put he a super 75mins for a lad who has played feck all football in recent months.  Breathnach seems to be Sammons lucky charm! Its hard to see him being dropped at this stage but at least we seem to have plenty of options in the forwards now as both Conroy and Armstrong got crucial scores when introduced the last day. Hopefully Nicky is not too badly injured, he is in poor enough form but the fecker has so much natural ability that Croke Park may be the stage for him to really kick start his season. 

The win on Sunday in Castlebar was a massive boost and the players should be full of confidence heading for the quarters where a victory is vital IMO to the continued development of this squad.  We havent won there since 2001  .  After that we are in bonus territory this year.  We have flaws, one major, but at this stage of the championship I have yet to see a performance from any team that suggests that they are nailed on to win SAM.   

We have to play Bergin, There is no argument to be made here. We are just so weak at midfield that we need to play him. You have pointed out how Blake was able to come to the pace of the game so why cant Bergin? The next match isnt until August 10th. Thats plenty of time to get fully fit for Bergin.

Blake has played club championship and a couple of club league games and I think Bergin would be trying to come into a big championship game in Croke Park from a lot further off the pace that Blake was v Mayo on Sunday last.  I agree that we need Bergin asap because we are so so poor around the middle rght now but I just cant see him being anywhere near fit to start.  I would be quite happy to be wrong though...............

QuoteBlake has played club championship and a couple of club league games and I think Bergin would be trying to come into a big championship game in Croke Park from a lot further off the pace that Blake was v Mayo on Sunday last.  I agree that we need Bergin asap because we are so so poor around the middle rght now but I just cant see him being anywhere near fit to start.  I would be quite happy to be wrong though...............

Yeah, I know what you are saying but I would start a half fit Bergin ahead of what we have now.

I for one am getting a bit turned off from all the negativity on this site. The verbal abuse, selective memory and over use of rose-tinted glasses is better than any of the journalists some of ye regularly have a go at could ever come up with.
Just think when people are posting anonymously then they should be at least respectful.
I do also think that JOM's record has been none too impressive, however with the risk of defending him (which I don't really intend to), my reading of the current situation with Mayo is as follows
(Mine is only an opinion as well as everyone else of course)

1.0 Mayo presently do not have the required no of top quality players to compete at the top table. Only 1 consistent scoring forward and one occasional scoring forward and both are small in stature. Too many other round pegs for square holes, lot of good athlethes, not that many real footballers if we are been honest.
2.0 We have had very little top quality coming through for the last 5+ years from underage. That is a fact. Particularly in the forwards. Never mind Joyce and Meehan, Galway are consistently bringing through natural forwards - why is it we cant have the same assembly line? Is it the way we coach? I always look to underage teams to see is there a guy that will consistently score 3-4 points per game from play - we seldom seem to produce these guys. Our current minors for example don't have one - scores are spread through the team.
3.0 Despite all his class and flair, CMD is not a P Joyce, and that is fact. Not saying he is less talented, but he does not deliver the way PJ does to get results.
4.0 We all asked for a stricter regime, when we get one don't start calling the manager
4.0 JOM has to bring on the youngsters - I know he had to revert to older lads the last day, but it is more of a reflection on the defenders we have coming through. In fairness to the likes of Conroy, he has been asked to do a job that is not natural to him. JOM cant manufacture a FB. How is it that we are bring through so many smaller players through underage? Especially defenders. This has to be changed at underage (I thinks it is being done)
5.0 Finally lets give those people in charge the support to get on with it. In fairness McStay was spot on last night - be glad of the second chance and get on with it. Its too Mayo to wallow in it - maybe that is one thing we will never cure

QuoteMayo presently do not have the required no of top quality players to compete at the top table. Only 1 consistent scoring forward

Fed up of the negativity eh?. what? wer'e just no good and should be happy withour lot . some people would take any angle to defend  O'mahony
Many posters here called o'mahony before he was ever given the mayo job for being a sniping media whore.
he has ballsed up big time and  got every big decision wrong and robbed the team of the winning habit. even though it was a cracking game on sunday don't confuse this galway team with a good one. All o mahony did was make the changes every one said he should have done from the start.

I agree mainly with your comments Maradona. Almost all are fair enough. But I don't think it is fair to right off all the underage talent we have coming through we have got to minor and U21 finals and have won one of them. I think some players take a while longer to mature. If you look at Galway it's 5 years since they won their U21 title and it's only now that those U21 stars are the mainstay of there team. Sure you'll have the odd Meehan or Keith Higgins that will take to senior straight away but for most it takes a few years. And the only way is to play them in Championship and have them learn by experience

We won an u-21 title 6 years ago and another 3 years ago.
By my calculations 12 of Sundays starting team started in one or other of those 2 u-21 finals (and Meehan played in both). The other 3 are Padraig Joyce, Paul Doherty(who I think was sub-goalie for the 2005 AI u-21 final) and Gareth Bradshaw.
3 of the 5 subs used (Comer,Fitzy & Armstrong) also started in one of the u-21 finals - the odd men out being Lydon & Conroy who of course won an AI minor last year.
That is some return from 2 underage sides albeit they were 2 quality teams.

Quote from: Maradona on July 15, 2008, 11:42:47 AM
I for one am getting a bit turned off from all the negativity on this site. The verbal abuse, selective memory and over use of rose-tinted glasses is better than any of the journalists some of ye regularly have a go at could ever come up with.
Just think when people are posting anonymously then they should be at least respectful.
I do also think that JOM's record has been none too impressive, however with the risk of defending him (which I don't really intend to), my reading of the current situation with Mayo is as follows
(Mine is only an opinion as well as everyone else of course)

1.0 Mayo presently do not have the required no of top quality players to compete at the top table. Only 1 consistent scoring forward and one occasional scoring forward and both are small in stature. Too many other round pegs for square holes, lot of good athlethes, not that many real footballers if we are been honest.
2.0 We have had very little top quality coming through for the last 5+ years from underage. That is a fact. Particularly in the forwards. Never mind Joyce and Meehan, Galway are consistently bringing through natural forwards - why is it we cant have the same assembly line? Is it the way we coach? I always look to underage teams to see is there a guy that will consistently score 3-4 points per game from play - we seldom seem to produce these guys. Our current minors for example don't have one - scores are spread through the team.
3.0 Despite all his class and flair, CMD is not a P Joyce, and that is fact. Not saying he is less talented, but he does not deliver the way PJ does to get results.
4.0 We all asked for a stricter regime, when we get one don't start calling the manager
4.0 JOM has to bring on the youngsters - I know he had to revert to older lads the last day, but it is more of a reflection on the defenders we have coming through. In fairness to the likes of Conroy, he has been asked to do a job that is not natural to him. JOM cant manufacture a FB. How is it that we are bring through so many smaller players through underage? Especially defenders. This has to be changed at underage (I thinks it is being done)
5.0 Finally lets give those people in charge the support to get on with it. In fairness McStay was spot on last night - be glad of the second chance and get on with it. Its too Mayo to wallow in it - maybe that is one thing we will never cure

Good post Maradona, I would agree with a lot of what you are saying.

There is a lot of naivety out there if people think we have the players to compete at the top.
A lot of people are using different sticks to beat JOM who is between a rock and a hard place in many respects.

If he plays the older lads on the team he is accused of not team building and giving the young players a chance.
If he plays younger lads, in some peoples eyes he is overlooking the older lads that have more experience.
If he doesnt include McDonald people will cry out for him.
If he did originally include McDonald he would be accused of not blooding new players and sticking to older guys that fell short.
If he does take back McD people will call him a hypocrite and ask why he wasnt there in the first place.

Ill echo what kevmy said:

Quote from: kevmy
O'Mahoney can't manufacture players from thin air - he tries youth and is given out to for throwing untested young lads in at the deep end - he goes with experience and he's said to be dropping back on players who are past it.

People are making his decisions and life impossible. Its positivity and trust we need.
Its the same negitive shite talk that got rid of good managers in the past

The Galway game is over and done with we lost by a point but we are still in the championship so
lets look at some positives for a change.
1.Howley should be back for the qualifiers
2.We cannot get Kerry in the qualifiers
3.Dillon is in great form and Mort should have a better game the next day.
Although i am dissapointed with the defeat we learned a lot from Sunday.The last time we won a
tight championship game by a point it kind of papered over the cracks that were there just because
we had won and these cracks were ruthlessly exposed in our next game.The problems that were
shown up on Sunday have to be dealt with but now the management and players have 1 extra game
to do this.
I hope the lads have the right attitude for the qualifier its only 1 game and if we win that its
all ireland qf time.Sure then we only have to beat Kerry,Tyrone and Dublin and its job done. ;D

Quote3.0 Despite all his class and flair, CMD is not a P Joyce, and that is fact. Not saying he is less talented, but he does not deliver the way PJ does to get results.
1.0 Mayo presently do not have the required no of top quality players to compete at the top table. Only 1 consistent scoring forward and one occasional scoring forward and both are small in stature. Too many other round pegs for square holes, lot of good athlethes, not that many real footballers if we are been honest.

Some very interesting points here, Maradona.
I've often considered a side by side comparison of Joyce and McDonald and I do tend to agree with your assessment.
Mac is an unrivalled distributor and must have super upper body strength. I cannot recall him ever losing out in a man to man contest for a ball and once in possession he will invariably clear a space for himself and get a precision pass away. But he needs others reacting quickly around him to be truly effective. Distribution and not scoring is his forte. Joyce can react equally quickly and he too is quick to pick out a better placed colleague accurately.
Where PJ shines is in his ability decide on what the 'experts' call shot selection. He can shoot for points, lay off a pass or go ziz zag through a defence with a green flag on his mind. As often as not he is successful.
I cannot recall Mac ever knifing through for a goal as Joyce can, unfortunately for Leitrim and for us!
On the other hand, a colleague under pressure and short of ideas stands a better chance off hoofing a ball in Mac's general direction and see him getting and maintaining possession.  I wouldn't like to have to call this one but I think I'd give the nod to Joyce as the better all-rounder.
Liam Hayes made the very same point as your first one; Mayo don't have enough top notch forwards to go all the way. In his time Meath had O'Rourke and Stafford, Tyrone had Canavan and mugsy and Armagh had three or four. Kerry always manage to have their quota. In their glory years, Galway had PJ, Finnegan, Fallon and Michael Donnellan.
Due in large part to O'Mahony's hard work, Mayo have quite a few handy lads but Dillon alone seems to possess that little bit extra that's required and he's not a leader by nature. I give him credit also for the way he is bringing a load of good young players through but that process takes time and there is no ultimate guarantee that his hard work will bear fruit.
Finally, I'd go with McStay in his call to avail of the second chance but I'd like to point out also that he was a most vociferous supporter of O'Mahony's after the Salthill massacre and was very quick to put the bad showing down to the players and not to the manager.
So I'll be wary of whatever he has to say but I'd go with him on this one.

yer missing th point altogether lads . Its the managers job to make decisions. good managers make good decisions bad managers make bad ones. O mahony has made a string of bad decisons since he took oer take just last week
the obvious one droppping Mcdonald
Playing Austin o malley and Boyle  when a blind man could see they weren't  up to it long before the game started
Sticking blindly with Conroy on the basis of one good game against kerry
Dropping gardiner
not having a plan for Padraic Joyce galways only real dangerman but one who can be disappered in a game.
not being able to utilize BJP.
Poorly prepared players making desperatly bad starts and having to play catch up for the rest of the game

these are the areas good managers can make a difference in ,JOM just isnt cutting it this time round

QuoteLiam Hayes made the very same point as your first one; Mayo don't have enough top notch forwards to go all the way. In his time Meath had O'Rourke and Stafford, Tyrone had Canavan and mugsy and Armagh had three or four. Kerry always manage to have their quota. In their glory years, Galway had PJ, Finnegan :o, Fallon and Michael Donnellan.
Due in large part to O'Mahony's hard work :D :D :D, Mayo have quite a few handy lads but Dillon alone seems to possess that little bit extra that's required and he's not a leader by nature. I give him credit also for the way he is bringing a load of good young players through but that process takes time and there is no ultimate guarantee that his hard work will bear fruit.

Now your having a laugh. you for got to metion the rock of granite that was ray silke

Quote from: rosnarun on July 15, 2008, 04:24:32 PM
yer missing th point altogether lads . Its the managers job to make decisions. good managers make good decisions bad managers make bad ones. O mahony has made a string of bad decisons since he took oer take just last week
the obvious one droppping Mcdonald
Playing Austin o malley and Boyle  when a blind man could see they weren't  up to it long before the game started  
Sticking blindly with Conroy on the basis of one good game against kerry
Dropping gardiner
not having a plan for Padraic Joyce galways only real dangerman but one who can be disappered in a game.
not being able to utilize BJP.
Poorly prepared players making desperatly bad starts and having to play catch up for the rest of the game

these are the areas good managers can make a difference in ,JOM just isnt cutting it this time round

While I like many others like Austie as a club player, I do actually agree, that I think he is too slow & indescisive for County level, you must remember the first choice for the position Barry Moran was injured, not something that JOM could have helped.

Quote from: rosnarun on July 15, 2008, 04:32:31 PM

QuoteLiam Hayes made the very same point as your first one; Mayo don't have enough top notch forwards to go all the way. In his time Meath had O'Rourke and Stafford, Tyrone had Canavan and mugsy and Armagh had three or four. Kerry always manage to have their quota. In their glory years, Galway had PJ, Finnegan :o, Fallon and Michael Donnellan.
Due in large part to O'Mahony's hard work :D :D :D, Mayo have quite a few handy lads but Dillon alone seems to possess that little bit extra that's required and he's not a leader by nature. I give him credit also for the way he is bringing a load of good young players through but that process takes time and there is no ultimate guarantee that his hard work will bear fruit.

Now your having a laugh. you for got to metion the rock of granite that was ray silke

Niall Finnegan was a fine corner-forward. Always good for a few scores from play in nearly every game and a good free-taker too. Only reason he is often forgotten about is that he was amongst an exceptional group of forwards containing Joyce, Donnellan, Ja Fallon, etc. I'd take him back tomorrow if he was younger and available.

probably get a bollocking for saying this but maybe o' mahony is Over rated ok he led galway to their All Irelands but he had quality players around him who were in their prime  people willl say that we don't have that quality in mayo which is fair enough but it asks the question did john o make galway or did galway make john o' ?. What has he done since 2001 i'm sure someone here will be able to put up his championship record since then all i know is the past two years don't make for pretty reading. Also i know one of the posters said there was negagivity but in fairness John O' has received a soft ride from both the local and national media also people are saying we are a team in transition which if fair enough but we could have and should have won the game last sunday if he was more tactially astute he made changes yes but the damage was done. He does not seem to be as motivated as he was for galway for e'g we are working off a panel of 29 (i think we are the only county doing this) is this on the county boards instructons or is it JOM decesion.
The players doing interviews before a game as one of the galway posters said he didn't allow this to happen with Galway didn't see any galway players doing interviews before last sundays match, Man management skills have to come into question especially over (you know who) . I think he said in the times before the Sligo match that he was offered the Mayo job when mickey moran got it , why did he not take it then and what changed in the following year that made him change his mind and take the job.

Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on July 15, 2008, 04:43:51 PM

Quote from: rosnarun on July 15, 2008, 04:32:31 PM

QuoteLiam Hayes made the very same point as your first one; Mayo don't have enough top notch forwards to go all the way. In his time Meath had O'Rourke and Stafford, Tyrone had Canavan and mugsy and Armagh had three or four. Kerry always manage to have their quota. In their glory years, Galway had PJ, Finnegan :o, Fallon and Michael Donnellan.
Due in large part to O'Mahony's hard work :D :D :D, Mayo have quite a few handy lads but Dillon alone seems to possess that little bit extra that's required and he's not a leader by nature. I give him credit also for the way he is bringing a load of good young players through but that process takes time and there is no ultimate guarantee that his hard work will bear fruit.

Now your having a laugh. you for got to metion the rock of granite that was ray silke

Niall Finnegan was a fine corner-forward. Always good for a few scores from play in nearly every game and a good free-taker too. Only reason he is often forgotten about is that he was amongst an exceptional group of forwards containing Joyce, Donnellan, Ja Fallon, etc. I'd take him back tomorrow if he was younger and available.

Not alone would I take him back, but he would walk on to the present team.  He was a vital cog in that Galway team and we would have got no where near an All Ireland in '98 without him.

Quote from: small white mayoman on July 15, 2008, 04:46:30 PM
probably get a bollocking for saying this but maybe o' mahony is Over rated ok he led galway to their All Irelands but he had quality players around him who were in their prime  people willl say that we don't have that quality in mayo which is fair enough but it asks the question did john o make galway or did galway make john o' ?. What has he done since 2001 i'm sure someone here will be able to put up his championship record since then all i know is the past two years don't make for pretty reading. Also i know one of the posters said there was negagivity but in fairness John O' has received a soft ride from both the local and national media also people are saying we are a team in transition which if fair enough but we could have and should have won the game last sunday if he was more tactially astute he made changes yes but the damage was done. He does not seem to be as motivated as he was for galway for e'g we are working off a panel of 29 (i think we are the only county doing this) is this on the county boards instructons or is it JOM decesion.
The players doing interviews before a game as one of the galway posters said he didn't allow this to happen with Galway didn't see any galway players doing interviews before last sundays match, Man management skills have to come into question especially over (you know who) . I think he said in the times before the Sligo match that he was offered the Mayo job when mickey moran got it , why did he not take it then and what changed in the following year that made him change his mind and take the job.

I think Jonno is a fine manager and I think if given time he'll get things right no matter where he is but there is no doubt he arrived in Galway when an exceptional group of young players were coming on stream backboned by some very good canny veterans. They just needed a bit of organisation and direction which he provided in fairness to him. That group came within a kick of a ball of winning 3 All-Ireland's in 4 years so you could say they were almost running themselves at times but I know the Galway players still hold him in the highest regard. Only for injuries to Ja Fallon, Tomas Mannion and a one-legged Kevin Walsh I felt we would have won the 2000 final and when they fell flat on their faces against Roscommon in 2001 he rejigged the team and got the show back on the road brilliantly. Things went a bit sour for O'Mahony in his last couple of years with Galway but by then the little bits of wear and tear and milage in the older players was starting to catch up with the team.

Overall I think he deserves a decent shot of it with Mayo. Even Ford got three years with Galway where we produced very little decent football bar the odd exception. If Ford got three years with Galway, Jonno should be worthy of about ten with Mayo.

Billy Fitzpatrick on MidWest made the same point on Sunday evening that Mayo do not have enough players at the sufficient level to win an All-Ireland. I don't think Galway have either.

And Finnegan was a excellent player, reliable free-taker and it should be remembered also in the reply against Roscommon in Hyde Park '98, Ros went two points up into the second half and we were looking for a leader, he stepped up with two points to level the game. And two points at the beginning of the second half of the All-Ireland final to help us on our way.

A lot of the O'Mahoney bashing here has come from one poster who reckons it's obvious that a number of players weren't good enough. Fair enough maybe to his expert eye these players weren't good enough but most people in the county reckoned they were worthy of a go. I heard very few complaints when the team was named. Sure there was a few players I was worried about but bar Aidan Higgins for Boyle there was no one player I would have started the last day instead of what went out. A tougher game against Sligo would have shown up exactly where our frailties were.

It also fierce easy to say lads aren't good enough, it's a hell of a lot tougher to say who is good enough. In my opinion there is no outstanding FB in the county (so it a case of round pegs and square holes ) and the outstanding CB in the county was injured the last day. Lets face it any team without those 2 positions filled are always going to be in trouble at the back even if Jesus himself was managing them.

Did O'Mahoney make mistakes I would say yes on 2 counts. 1) Mac should be on the panel, not starting mind as I think he is well past his peak. 2) On assigning his backs to men the last day. I thought Conroy should have been on Breatnach, Cunniffe on Clancy and Nallen on Bane.

Now even the best of managers doesn't get everything right. Attacking a manger halfway through a Championship campaign isn't the way to go about things imo. Leave it until the end of the season when the campaign as a whole can be looked back upon and proper judgement made.

One last thing since rosarun seems intent on firing Johnno before the next game who would he replace a man who has won numerous Connacht titles (including one with Leitrim), 2 senior AI, U21 AI and 2 more senior AI finals appearance with. Pat Holmes? Ray Dempsey? John Maughan? Himself?

From a Galway point of view I think some Mayo posters on here are being very negative considering you are still in the championship, lost out by a single point and showed character in coming back from seven points down. Also now is not the time to be critical of O'Mahony, he is Mayo manager until the end of the season at least and deserves support.

As for Mayo's selection policy on Sunday, surely Austin O'Malley deserved his chance? I realise he didnt take it but at least ye now know his worth. And I wouldnt write him off either as I consider Hanley in the top 3 full backs in the country. A few morons on RTE jumped on the bandwagon after Maxwell cleaned him that Galway were weak here, I dont agree. Every player has an opponent they cant seem to handle (Meehan/Higgins, Mortimer/Burke, in hurling Eoin Kelly cant tolerate Ollie Canning) but that does not make them bad players. Hanley is one of the best.

As for Mayo's defence, I was unsure of Boyle and Conroy because I have seen little of them and it didnt work out for them but again from an outside perspective I have to ask were the subs that came on better starting options? Now I know people will turn around and say thats obvious considering what happened on Sunday but remember Gardiner was in the same boat in Salthill last year and Higgins against Kerry in 06 so maybe JOM was right to gamble.

All is not lost even though I agree with a previous poster that you need at LEAST 3 top class forwards to win an All-Ireland. Mayo have one - Dillon, a potential one in C Mortimer and an undoubted one not on the panel - McDonald. That shouldnt stop an All Ireland semi run though!

Back to Galway I have to say Im becoming more optimistic since the match particularly because of our squad depth. I would agree that Fitzy and Meehan should come back the next day moving Bradshaw out to half back. We have quality defensive subs in Coyne, Sice and Mullahy. At one stage this year this looked our most likey starting half-back line.

Bergin and Lydon offer reasonable cover at midfield even though this area is likely to be our downfall. Up front, Conroy and Army are excellent subs to be able to bring on.

Paul Conroy's point near the death the last day fills me confidence for both his and Galway's future. He kicked an embarrassing wide after coming on yet at only 19 showed some attitude in kicking the next score. What made it even more impressive was the fact he had space to run into and maybe fist it over the bar yet he had the confidence to take it on.

Quote from: rosnarun on July 15, 2008, 04:32:31 PM

QuoteLiam Hayes made the very same point as your first one; Mayo don't have enough top notch forwards to go all the way. In his time Meath had O'Rourke and Stafford, Tyrone had Canavan and mugsy and Armagh had three or four. Kerry always manage to have their quota. In their glory years, Galway had PJ, Finnegan :o, Fallon and Michael Donnellan.
Due in large part to O'Mahony's hard work :D :D :D, Mayo have quite a few handy lads but Dillon alone seems to possess that little bit extra that's required and he's not a leader by nature. I give him credit also for the way he is bringing a load of good young players through but that process takes time and there is no ultimate guarantee that his hard work will bear fruit.

Now your having a laugh. you for got to metion the rock of granite that was ray silke

Steady on, ros, something tells me you don't worship at the shrine of the Appointed One.
You're not suggesting I'm being sarcastic, are you? :D
I wouldn't really be too hard on Ray Silke either if I were you. He'd never qualify as a top class forward for reasons of geography; he was in the other half of the field. I'd imagine he'd not be too upset at your slagging either. After all, he has something in his arse pocket that very few Mayo men alive boast about and that's a Celtic cross.

John O'Mahony isn't  just a pretty face; it took more than rugged, good looks or pure chance for him to land two All Irelands with the herrin' chokers or to have Leitrim mortify us entirely back in '94.
With two notable exceptions, I'd be happy to say his Second Coming has been a largely positive one.
Aided and abetted by a sympathetic media, he hasn't been slow to let the idea that player burnout was responsible for the disaster in Salthill last year and above all he made a monumental liathróidí out of the way he shafted Ciaran McDonald.
When a leading sympathiser like Kevin McStay goes as far as saying he didn't handle the matter well you make take it that it wasn't his finest hour. Note I'm saying nothing about him dropping the player as that's his call but the way he went about it was short-sighted and disingenuous in the extreme.
I'm just content to note his failings and acknowledge his successes and to hope he has an extended run this season.

Quote from: belleaqua on July 15, 2008, 06:49:32 PM
Back to Galway I have to say Im becoming more optimistic since the match particularly because of our squad depth. I would agree that Fitzy and Meehan should come back the next day moving Bradshaw out to half back. We have quality defensive subs in Coyne, Sice and Mullahy. At one stage this year this looked our most likey starting half-back line.

Bergin and Lydon offer reasonable cover at midfield even though this area is likely to be our downfall. Up front, Conroy and Army are excellent subs to be able to bring on.

Paul Conroy's point near the death the last day fills me confidence for both his and Galway's future. He kicked an embarrassing wide after coming on yet at only 19 showed some attitude in kicking the next score. What made it even more impressive was the fact he had space to run into and maybe fist it over the bar yet he had the confidence to take it on.

All things considered, I think Sammon has done a remarkable job thus far. We have had a nightmare season with injuries with Blake, Fitzy, Bergin, Dunleavy, Nicky, Dec Meehan and a few others all having had various serious injuries at stages. I was starting to lose faith in Damien Burke before last Sunday as its a long while since he had a game of that quality before but he looked the same corner back that I thought was one of the best man markers around two years ago. If he can reproduce that form again the next day against someone other than C Mortimer, hopefully that will see him back to where he was.

If we could get Bergin back ahead of the QF, he would be a huge addition but its very unlikely Id say unless he can get a serious amount of club games in ahead of next month.

As for the forwards, as much as im delighted that PJ is getting the plaudits to say that he was a one man show on Sunday would be well off the mark. Nicky, while he didnt score was playin havoc with Conroy all first half and won any amout of ball until the second half when the supply dried up and he got injured, 3 points from play from Bane in as good a game as hes played for Galway, Mike Meehan had a decent game despite double marking for alot of the game. And with five mins to go, when the game was there to be won it was Bane, Armstrong and Conroy that kicked the scores.....defence wasnt the best from Mayo but they were all pressure kicks and they all sailed over.

That being said, we have to win next day and heres still alot to improve on but id be fairly hopeful if we could get a clear run on the injuries front. Sure we'll go up for the day out anyway even if one of the neighbours doesnt rate any of our players  ;)

"1) Mac should be on the panel, not starting mind as I think he is well past his peak."

Have to take exception to this Kevmy... If that's applicable to Mac, then it applies to Heaney, Nallen etc. The man is innately fit, and is more than capable of holding his own for the 70 minutes. 'Past his peak' assumes that he isn't as fit/strong/accurate/able to win ball as he used to be, and I think that's not even up for debate.

Quote from: belleaqua on July 15, 2008, 06:49:32 PM
Back to Galway I have to say Im becoming more optimistic since the match particularly because of our squad depth. I would agree that Fitzy and Meehan should come back the next day moving Bradshaw out to half back. We have quality defensive subs in Coyne, Sice and Mullahy. At one stage this year this looked our most likey starting half-back line.

Bergin and Lydon offer reasonable cover at midfield even though this area is likely to be our downfall. Up front, Conroy and Army are excellent subs to be able to bring on.

Paul Conroy's point near the death the last day fills me confidence for both his and Galway's future. He kicked an embarrassing wide after coming on yet at only 19 showed some attitude in kicking the next score. What made it even more impressive was the fact he had space to run into and maybe fist it over the bar yet he had the confidence to take it on.

What gives me a confidence boost is the way we closed out the game. So many times in the past we have seen Galway teams disintegrate when their opponents have hawled backed a big lead. It was great to see the team regroup and finish the match strongly.
And as you point out, this was in no small part down to the quality of subs Sammon was able to make.
Conroy looks a great prospect. You rightly highlight the bad miss he made shortly after his introduction. He was then harshly penalised for over carrrying which resulted in Mayo kicking a free to regain the lead with only about 5 minutes to go. In that context his point was a mighty one, considering the space he had to run into which would have made his score so much easier.
Bane also decided to kick from distance when he had enough support to be able to work the ball closer to goal.
The players' confidence certainly instils more confidence in the supporters.
The panel is stronger than it's been for years but there is so much to work on to even win a quarter final, never mind go the whole way.

Quote from: smelly fairy on July 15, 2008, 10:20:35 PM
"1) Mac should be on the panel, not starting mind as I think he is well past his peak."

Have to take exception to this Kevmy... If that's applicable to Mac, then it applies to Heaney, Nallen etc. The man is innately fit, and is more than capable of holding his own for the 70 minutes. 'Past his peak' assumes that he isn't as fit/strong/accurate/able to win ball as he used to be, and I think that's not even up for debate.

I still stand by the fact that Mac is past his peak. IMO he peaked in 04. He had a string of high quality games from Galway, Ros, Tyrone (where they tried to blanket him and stopped him from scoring but his vision that day was massive) and even in the final he played well but was let down. In 06 I don't think he played as consistently well - he had an excellent game against the Dubs no doubt but he also had better support (O'Neill, a more mature Dillon and Mort).
If your asking me is he fit enough to play 70 of course he is but in my mind it's concentration and quarter second of mental speed that go when you start to go on the downward slope and tbh I think that has started to happen. People compare him to PJ but he is 2 years older.
And Heaney and Nallen are both past their peak. In Nallen's day he was the best centre back in the country with lightning pace and now I don't think anyone would claim that he has either of those. When Howley comes back I think Heaney's spot will be up in the air. I would like to see a solid Mayo defence without either of them starting but as we saw from last Sunday it's unlikely. I would like that Nallen be moved to full back where his experience and natural defensive ability could be put to use and speed isn't as important.
As for my reasons of Mac not starting well I think our half forward line is much stronger and has much more options than our defence. Harte is playing massive at centre forward, Dillon is back on All Star form, Trevor was on his way to man of the match the last day before he got hurt, Billy Joe scored 2 points when he came on their the last day and Andy Moran significantly improved when he went back there as well. So we have more options and more guys playing well at half forward and that is where Mac should be used if you use him.
Also is there really that much wrong with our forwards? We got 1-14 the last day against a "significantly tighter" Galway defence and Mort had an off day. In my view Mac is as badly needed as some people are making out. Would I have him in panel? Without a shadow of a doubt. Would I start him? No. Could he have been useful in the last 10 or 15 mins the last day? Yes

Mayo should take it handy on O Mahoney. Its easy to say that he had a great team in 98-01. But Galway have had great players before. Some of the team of the early 80's and the early 70s were just as good as the players in 98. It was the organisation and the joint mission he brought to the team which brought the from also rans to Champions.

finnegan was a class act. Ever dependable. The arrival of John Donnellan on the 40 seemed to push him out. Will always remember the point against Sligo from the endline. He had only one foot and left at the right time. His departure messed up Galway because they had no one to play 3rd up front. Crowded midfield and stifled any growth in that area.

A few people have sought my wisdom
few complaints before the match about the team picked ? go back over the posts . I fyou ever see a post where i said either boyle or AOM  or cunniffe were fit to wear the mayo jersey . I 'll retire my handle . AOM desrve a chance hes been there for about 4  years! who else could be full forward instead in my order of preference Trevor mort BJP aidain kilcoyne
who should be manager? lets see we had a perfectly good one in micky moran but we decided to change to a manger who declared the team to in transition . from all-ireland finalists to Connacht championship also rans.
I can't believe any one but JOM fanatic could take solace from yet another onepoint defeat its about the 4th this year a sure sign of a poorlymentally  prepared team. Thats what matches are all about two teams going at it hammer and tongs and imposing their will on the other team and to lose to a team you as good as or better than is the ultimate failure.
Any meadal Finnegan or sikle have in their arse pockets were shoved in there by M Donnellan Joyce walsh Mannion Fallon Savage and young john power

Quote from: rosnarun on July 16, 2008, 12:03:22 PM

Any meadal Finnegan or sikle have in their arse pockets were shoved in there by M Donnellan Joyce walsh Mannion Fallon Savage and young john power

What rubbish re: Finnegan at least! He won his by rights, having very good games in Connacht final drawn game and AI final in '98. Any GAA follower worth his salt in Galway knows how badly he was missed subsequent to that year.

Just one comment ros.

I know you had serious doubts about some of these players before the match but you made a comment earlier on saying everyone bar O'Mahony could see Austie etc. weren't good enough. I think that comment was at best stretching the truth. I also don't think that Trevor or BJP are natural FFs anymore than Austie is.

Quote from: rosnarun on July 16, 2008, 12:03:22 PM
Any meadal Finnegan or sikle have in their arse pockets were shoved in there by M Donnellan Joyce walsh Mannion Fallon Savage and young john power

Your grasp of what constitutes an excellent intercounty forward leaves a lot to be desired if thats your opinion of Finnegan  :-\

Quote from: rosnarun on July 16, 2008, 12:03:22 PM
Any meadal Finnegan or sikle have in their arse pockets were shoved in there by M Donnellan Joyce walsh Mannion Fallon Savage and young john power

Utter crap... Finnegan was excellent that year and actually never replaced. We never got a true No.15 since... Look at it he was a cert in that position all threw his career.. No.15 for Galway since has a better chance of playing middle field...

In the same way Savo at No. 13 will be hard to replace...

 ??? Finnegan was a quality corner forward. Other big names got the plaudits but he made a huge contribution to the All-Ireland win.

Finnegan was definetly the weakest player on the that team , no bad thing to be maybe but would galway have got within an asses roar of the Sam maguire if he had been the best ?,
not a chance

Finnegan was a super player. Did you actually see him in action at all bar 1998 Ros? He was Galway's best player in defeat to Mayo in '97 when he roasted Kevin Cahill while playing at number 14. He was a consistent scorer for Galway from both play and frees for years up until his retirement

QuoteFinnegan was definetly the weakest player on the that team , no bad thing to be maybe but would galway have got within an asses roar of the Sam maguire if he had been the best ?,
not a chance

Ros, as a Mayo man talking here i have to say you're talking complete bolloux here. Its bad enough having to try and read your posts that don't contain a full stop or comma etc but to eventually decipher them and see bullsh*t like that is frustrating.

Quote from: blast05 on July 16, 2008, 03:14:10 PM

QuoteFinnegan was definetly the weakest player on the that team , no bad thing to be maybe but would galway have got within an asses roar of the Sam maguire if he had been the best ?,
not a chance

Ros, as a Mayo man talking here i have to say you're talking complete bolloux here. Its bad enough having to try and read your posts that don't contain a full stop or comma etc but to eventually decipher them and see bullsh*t like that is frustrating.

Ouch!

Quotefinnegan was a class act. Ever dependable. The arrival of John Donnellan on the 40 seemed to push him out. Will always remember the point against Sligo from the endline. He had only one foot and left at the right time. His departure messed up Galway because they had no one to play 3rd up front. Crowded midfield and stifled any growth in that area.

Thats is very untrue. Finnegan decided to retire after 2000. He wasnt pushed out. He was working in Dublin and was about 32 at the time. I think he just didnt have the hunger to travel down 2-3 times a week for training.

Also Finneagan was one of the best two footed players I have ever seen ( 4 points from play with his left foot & 5 points from frees with his right against Mayo in 1997)

QuoteAny meadal Finnegan or sikle have in their arse pockets were shoved in there by M Donnellan Joyce walsh Mannion Fallon Savage and young john power

One word for this --- Bullshit.

Quote from: rosnarun on July 16, 2008, 03:02:17 PM
Finnegan was definetly the weakest player on the that team , no bad thing to be maybe but would galway have got within an asses roar of the Sam maguire if he had been the best ?,
not a chance

I think we'll have to sit you down with a copy of "A Year til Sunday" and let you see how many times Finnegan popped up with vital scores during the 1998 campaign. Plus the sight of O'Mahony with Sam Maguire would fairly wind up the wind up merchant wouldnt it  ;)

After thinking about what Liam Hayes said, I decided to include Finnegan's name in the list of 'must have' forwards a team needs to go all the way. I'm sticking with my story, yer honour!
Truth is I could have included Savage also but it was heartbreaking to name any of them. ;)
That way truly an exceptional forward unit and it had to be as the backs were only average at best.
Was there even one of Galway's forwards from that side who wouldn't find an automatic place on either set of forward in action last Sunday? 

Quote from: Lar Naparka on July 16, 2008, 07:31:05 PM
After thinking about what Liam Hayes said, I decided to include Finnegan's name in the list of 'must have' forwards a team needs to go all the way. I'm sticking with my story, yer honour!
Truth is I could have included Savage also but it was heartbreaking to name any of them. ;)
That way truly an exceptional forward unit and it had to be as the backs were only average at best.
Was there even one of Galway's forwards from that side who wouldn't find an automatic place on either set of forward in action last Sunday? 

No. Any of them would have walked on either team. I assume you mean Paul Clancy, Ja Fallon, Donnellan, Savage , Joyce and Finnegan.

As for Finnegan, he played some fine games v Mayo in Connacht before 98 breakthrough. I was at drawn 2000 AI final and have a recollection of Finnegan, I m sure it was, fluffing a chance to win it with PJ screaming for a pass. Galway posters will remember for sure. Only saw the game live - never watched a recording so I could be mistaken. If he did I would nt hold it against him though- he was a player I had a lot of time for.

QuoteAs for Finnegan, he played some fine games v Mayo in Connacht before 98 breakthrough. I was at drawn 2000 AI final and have a recollection of Finnegan, I m sure it was, fluffing a chance to win it with PJ screaming for a pass. Galway posters will remember for sure. Only saw the game live - never watched a recording so I could be mistaken. If he did I would nt hold it against him though- he was a player I had a lot of time for.

That was Derek Savage who didnt pass it to Joyce. He plenty of abuse about it at club games afterwards to.

QuoteAfter thinking about what Liam Hayes said, I decided to include Finnegan's name in the list of 'must have' forwards a team needs to go all the way. I'm sticking with my story, yer honour!

What did Liam Hayes say?

Anyone know where I'd be able to get a copy of the match on DVD? I know it's up on both TV3 and RTE websites but I want an actual copy and they don't let you copy onto a disc as far as I know.

Last Sundays game? Might be able to manage it if my recorder has nt become tempermental again and if herself has nt erased it. Have nt had the stomach to watch it myself so it could be gone.

Ya last Sunday's game, trusted someone else to set the recorder, won't be doing that again in a hurry! >:( thanks moysider

I ll have a go at it tomorrow. Headin to the pub now. There s a festival on ye know ;). Tryin to keep my mind off last Sunday s disaster :'(.

That's the"Sammon" festival isn't it? Haha, appropriate don't you think!  ;DHave a good night!

Quote from: Duine Eile on July 16, 2008, 10:23:31 PM
That's the"Sammon" festival isn't it? Haha, appropriate don't you think!  ;DHave a good night!

Ouch. Thirst is gone off me now. Liam is a good one. I ve known him for years and I dont begrudge him his success. Stuck to his football principles and always a top top coach. We might have a top manager but I would prefer a top coach like Sammon or the man we ran out of town 2 years ago.

Quote from: Duine Eile on July 16, 2008, 09:31:44 PM
Anyone know where I'd be able to get a copy of the match on DVD? I know it's up on both TV3 and RTE websites but I want an actual copy and they don't let you copy onto a disc as far as I know.

Send me a PM and I'll copy and mail you on a copy. It is on DVD-R and of SLP quality. It will take me a day or two to get to a Post Office or to get some one to post it for me as I'm none too mobile at present. Nothing major but it make take a day or so.

QuoteWhat did Liam Hayes say?

The discussion had been about Galway and Matt Cooper had asked the question about where Galway would find leaders today. Canavan spoke at some length about how Galway used to have leaders all over the field, such as Fallon, De Paor and Thomas Mannion. Hayes added that Galway just didn't have such quality leadership today and if they went behind they were inclined to stay behind.
This led into a discussion that was supposed to have been about Mayo near misses and sure enough some awful examples were shown but Hayes continued with the leadership theme and how a lack of quality forwards was a drawback for the county.
He said he had sympathy for the 04/06 sides as they had no quality forwards and the same could be said of today's side. There wasn't a single star player there.
He could go back to the Dublin/Kerry meetings of the 70s and the thing that struck him was the fact that successful team had at least a pair of quality forwards usually in the inside line. He instanced his own team that had Stafford and O'Rourke and Tyrone that had Canavan and Stephen O'Neill.
He also mentioned three from Armagh, Ronan Clarke, McConville and McDonnell. Kerry had Gooch ands Star but poor Mayo had nothing in this class; lads who could make all the difference in two or three tight matches a year. He added that Conor Mortimer was a tricky little player but he wasn't of the required quality.

Thinking about the first half of the match, were Johnno's match ups wrong? Depoying Conroy on Nicky joyce doesnt seem to make sense, joyce being a pacy forward......perhaps if keith higgins had marked joyce with Conroy on Meehan it would have allowed conroy mark the type of player full backs traditionally mark.

Quote from: Bomber2312 on July 17, 2008, 09:31:53 AM
Thinking about the first half of the match, were Johnno's match ups wrong? Depoying Conroy on Nicky joyce doesnt seem to make sense, joyce being a pacy forward......perhaps if keith higgins had marked joyce with Conroy on Meehan it would have allowed conroy mark the type of player full backs traditionally mark.

He definitely did - it was his one real big mistake in the match. He should have Conroy on Breathnach, Higgins on Meehan, Nallen on Bane, Boyle on Nicky, Cunniffe on Clancy and Heaney on Joyce. I was a little shocked when they lined up the way they were - especially Conroy on Nciky Joyce and Nallen on Clancy

Quote from: Galforever on July 16, 2008, 04:04:00 PM

Quotefinnegan was a class act. Ever dependable. The arrival of John Donnellan on the 40 seemed to push him out. Will always remember the point against Sligo from the endline. He had only one foot and left at the right time. His departure messed up Galway because they had no one to play 3rd up front. Crowded midfield and stifled any growth in that area.

Thats is very untrue. Finnegan decided to retire after 2000. He wasnt pushed out. He was working in Dublin and was about 32 at the time. I think he just didnt have the hunger to travel down 2-3 times a week for training.

Also Finneagan was one of the best two footed players I have ever seen ( 4 points from play with his left foot & 5 points from frees with his right against Mayo in 1997)

QuoteAny meadal Finnegan or sikle have in their arse pockets were shoved in there by M Donnellan Joyce walsh Mannion Fallon Savage and young john power

One word for this --- Bullshit.

Dont want to make it look like i have a personal problem with finnegan Im just saying he was probably the worst player on the team along with silke of all the alternate view that have been offered i have yet to heard anyone dispute this. he was an average Journeyman footballer untill the joyce donellan batch arrived and now people are turning him into some kind of all time great?
And I'm accussed of being the bull shitter?
And to refresh your memories he was 30 when he 'retired'

Some folk have complained about my lack of comma fullstops ect hers a bach of the please feel free to insert them where ever you see fit
.....................,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,:::;;;;;???and even some !!!!!.
That should keep the teachers busy for the rest of the summer

Thanks Lar Naparka,I'll PM you this evening with the details.You're a gentleman!

Quote from: rosnarun on July 17, 2008, 10:59:11 AM


Dont want to make it look like i have a personal problem with finnegan Im just saying he was probably the worst player on the team along with silke of all the alternate view that have been offered i have yet to heard anyone dispute this. he was an average Journeyman footballer untill the joyce donellan batch arrived and now people are turning him into some kind of all time great?
And I'm accussed of being the bull shitter?
And to refresh your memories he was 30 when he 'retired'

Some folk have complained about my lack of comma fullstops ect hers a bach of the please feel free to insert them where ever you see fit
.....................,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,:::;;;;;???and even some !!!!!.
That should keep the teachers busy for the rest of the summer

But your argument cannot be substantiated; T Meehan, Divilly, Silke, O'Domhnaill, Shay Walsh, even Savo would be rated as inferior to Finnegan by all knowledgeable Galway fans.

Mind you, we all have our opinions that others don't share; e.g. I think that Liam McHale did as much damage as good to Mayo football during his playing time through bad passing, messing up solo runs, kicking dreadful wides etc. while Dermot Earley, great and all as a player that he was, bottled it big time in the 1980 final v Kerry when he missed placed balls he'd normally score with his eyes closed. I think he referred to this in a radio interview recently.

Do ye not think that Mayo trying to match defenders with Galway forwards was the main of the problem in the first place? Paying them too much respect in the first place and its so easy take defenders out of position, leave them in no-mans-land and create space. Same thing happened last year. Conroy was totally out of position v N Joyce on a number of occassions. Conroy was chosen as a classic full back, so thats where he should be played. If we were to follow men all round then Conroy should not have been picked. IMO defenders should be picked in their best positions and stay there irrespective of who lines up against them.

Does that comment about Galway not having leaders still valid after Sunday. I mean when Mayo got ahead on Sunday Joyce was the only real leader when he helped steady the ship at that time. If Joyce does not provide the leadership do we have the required leaders?

Also I have a fear of our full back line in that they are used to playing against Mayo forwards such as Burke on Mortimer. How will they do on other forwards that they are not so familiar with, particularly if we are losing the battle at midfield?

Quote from: Maradona on July 17, 2008, 12:40:11 PM
Do ye not think that Mayo trying to match defenders with Galway forwards was the main of the problem in the first place? Paying them too much respect in the first place and its so easy take defenders out of position, leave them in no-mans-land and create space. Same thing happened last year. Conroy was totally out of position v N Joyce on a number of occassions. Conroy was chosen as a classic full back, so thats where he should be played. If we were to follow men all round then Conroy should not have been picked. IMO defenders should be picked in their best positions and stay there irrespective of who lines up against them.

Good point....i do also think that Mayos Midfield not doing aswel as expected contributed to the beating the defense took

Quote from: Maradona on July 17, 2008, 12:40:11 PM
Do ye not think that Mayo trying to match defenders with Galway forwards was the main of the problem in the first place? Paying them too much respect in the first place and its so easy take defenders out of position, leave them in no-mans-land and create space. Same thing happened last year. Conroy was totally out of position v N Joyce on a number of occassions. Conroy was chosen as a classic full back, so thats where he should be played. If we were to follow men all round then Conroy should not have been picked. IMO defenders should be picked in their best positions and stay there irrespective of who lines up against them.

I'd agree to the extent that ideally you should play players in their best positions and let them play away as they see fit. Problem is if we played all our backs in their preferred positions we'd have 4 centre backs (Heaney, Howley, Nallen, Cunniffe), 6 wing backs (2 Higgins, Gardiner, Boyle, O'Malley, Kelly) and a midfielder (Conroy). So it is going to be a case of square pegs and round holes for this year at least in defence. I think then you have to see what players will to damage and put our best man markers on them (the 2 Higgins imo) and working the other guys in the panel to the best of our ability. Conroy isn't a natural FB but could play there against big guys who won't be quick turners but he also has other talent he a good distributor of the ball and wouldn't be out of place marking a 3rd midfielder type player.

Quote from: Duine Eile on July 16, 2008, 09:44:56 PM
Ya last Sunday's game, trusted someone else to set the recorder, won't be doing that again in a hurry! >:( thanks moysider

I ve just started the recording process. Hopefully it ll turn out ok.

Quote from: moysider on July 17, 2008, 02:48:05 PM

Quote from: Duine Eile on July 16, 2008, 09:44:56 PM
Ya last Sunday's game, trusted someone else to set the recorder, won't be doing that again in a hurry! >:( thanks moysider

I ve just started the recording process. Hopefully it ll turn out ok.

You wouldn't be able to alter the result by any chance moysider :D did you enjoy those pints yesterday

Yeah, but you get my point. The team was picked Boyle Conroy Higgins Cunniffe Heaney Nallen, then the players should have played in those positions and not followed what appeared to be designated attackers all over the place. The defence was totally out of shape because of this. I dont think I ever saw so many players on man-marking jobs at inter-county, certainly you never see Galway doing it to us

Quote from: Maradona on July 17, 2008, 02:51:17 PM
Yeah, but you get my point. The team was picked Boyle Conroy Higgins Cunniffe Heaney Nallen, then the players should have played in those positions and not followed what appeared to be designated attackers all over the place. The defence was totally out of shape because of this. I dont think I ever saw so many players on man-marking jobs at inter-county, certainly you never see Galway doing it to us

but that was obviously the managements decesion Maradona however like you said they should be picked in their best position and stay there but thats two years in a row we have done that we  did the same last year in salthill and the players did not know what they were act for the 1st fifteen minutes :(

Here is Liam Horan's take on Sunday s game from the Connacht Telegraph. Liam Henry s article even more pessimistic in the same paper.




No second coming for Johnno     «
Jul 15 2008

T DOESN'T do your heart good to read Mayo players actually saying it, but we share their general pessimism for the qualifiers. For the second year in a row, Mayo go into the qualifiers needing to make a whole host of changes to the team. It's band-aid time again.
At least last year, John O'Mahony could turn to Tom Cunniffe, Trevor Howley, Pearse Hanley, and Barry Moran - most of whom should have been blooded in the Connaught championship in the first place. But they were able to bring something to the team for the qualifiers. The same of sort of quality is not lurking in the background this time.
Mayo almost won on Sunday, but, even if they had held on after going one point up, the same problems would exist. The team is hanging in mid-air, as I've said here before, and it now seems inevitable that Johnno's second coming will end without any significant progress. Two years down, and not even a Connaught title won, and this at a time when the 2007 champions (Sligo) were shown in Croke Park to be a poor side.
It is not a golden era of Connaught football and still Mayo can't get their hands on a provincial title.
Virtually all of the old problems remain, and, in some situations, things have got worse. First and foremost, the defence is far too generous with space and lacking the kind of physical edge needed at the highest level. A dedicated man-marker should have been detailed to track Padraig Joyce's every move because he is the key to this Galway team.
David Heaney didn't get close enough often enough and the result was that Joyce orchestrated matters in the first-half, giving Galway the lead that Mayo spent the rest of the game – against the breeze – trying to chase down.
The full-back line, apart from Keith Higgins, was ripped apart, and the damage was done before remedial action was taken. Given the fact that Colm Boyle and Kieran Conroy were playing away from their natural habitats (wing-back and midfield respectively) there was always the danger they would be found out, and, as happened last year, Galway knew exactly where the bodies were buried. That's two years in a row Galway have exposed massive problems in our defence.
It took Peadar Gardiner and Aidan Higgins – neither of whom can be called a callow youth – to shore up the backline. Higgins knows something about the darker arts of real defensive play. Gardiner remains the Mayo player with the best understanding of support play, arriving on the shoulder of the man in possession to take play on. Too many Mayo players play across-the-field football, which gives an opposition defence time to settle and regroup.
At midfield, Ronan McGarrity didn't give Mayo the sort of pull you'd expect from him, particularly against a less than earth-shattering Galway pairing, but we accept he may not yet be back to himself after his illness. Beside him, Tom Parsons was good in patches, and anonymous in patches, and he has to bring a greater workrate to his game. But he has undoubted potential and was a central figure in the second-half renaissance.
Up front, only Alan Dillon sparkled. He was quite superb and has rediscovered the enthusiasm that seemed to have deserted him earlier this year. He is a real forward – he has a swivel of the hips, can change direction, probe an opening, bring a colleague into play, keep a defender guessing.
Maybe there is an explanation why he wasn't detailed to kick the last free. That was never one for Conor Mortimer. Against that breeze, it was outside his range.
Dillon had nailed one from similar distance earlier, and he should have been the one to have a go. And it wasn't as if Mortimer's free-taking was going well up to that point.
The one he missed in the first-half ended up hurting Mayo badly in a one-point game, but it also delivered a psychological boost to Galway.
Mortimer found Damien Burke a handful once again. The Shrule-Glencorrib man continues to be a divisive figure among Mayo supporters: there can be no denying his capacity to score, and on Sunday, despite coming off second best against Burke, he still kicked two excellent points. But there is the feeling that he has more to offer which doesn't always come out, and the easy chances he misses are costly.
The attack, as a whole, plays with none of the cohesion that Galway showed at various times on Sunday, and, as with the defence, there could be as many as three changes there the next day.
That's the most depressing aspect of Mayo right now. They come close to winning a Connaught title - showing a lot of heart in fighting their way back into a game that had almost slipped from them - but when you strip it down afterwards, you realise that they are not particularly close to building a new team, and that further dramatic changes are needed for the next day out.

Dont want to make it look like i have a personal problem with finnegan Im just saying he was probably the worst player on the team along with silke of all the alternate view that have been offered i have yet to heard anyone dispute this. he was an average Journeyman footballer untill the joyce donellan batch arrived and now people are turning him into some kind of all time great?
And I'm accussed of being the bull shitter?
And to refresh your memories he was 30 when he 'retired'

Some folk have complained about my lack of comma fullstops ect hers a bach of the please feel free to insert them where ever you see fit
.....................,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,:::;;;;;???and even some !!!!!.
That should keep the teachers busy for the rest of the summer
[/quote]

Stop this rubbish now . You know nothing about Niall Finnegan and you are showing that you know less about football.(Galway football anyway)

Even the rest of your county men are embarressed by this diatribe .

Can you not just accept that your opinion on this subject is wrong /flawedand comes accross as bitter or somebody with an axe to grind. what happened did the man himself take your girlfriend off you or something .

Finnie was a class act and over his 10+ Galway career he delivered ...through thick and thin he was there . He ash the medals to prove it too....what medals do you have ????? thought so!

That's surprisingly gloomy from Horan in the Connaught Telegraph but dammit it's very hard to pick holes in his analysis, isn't it? Christ. :(

Ray Silke says that Johnno "did not have his best day in the bainisteoir's bib" on Sunday. Unlike one of Johnno's old boys to have a go - even the lads who didn't get on with him talk him up.

http://www.galwayadvertiser.ie/content/index.php?aid=13024

Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on July 17, 2008, 10:07:37 PM
Ray Silke says that Johnno "did not have his best day in the bainisteoir's bib" on Sunday. Unlike one of Johnno's old boys to have a go - even the lads who didn't get on with him talk him up.

http://www.galwayadvertiser.ie/content/index.php?aid=13024

Silke pretty much on the ball too. The bit about James Nallen made me 'smile' though. He s right that the Clancy match-up did nt suit James and maybe he does nt have the pace for wing- back. The ironic thing about it though is that Nallen will be faster at forty that Ray Silke was in his prime yet Johnno got away with playing Silke at wing back for years. Now I m not having a go at Ray Silke but as Johnno will have discovered there are no brownie points in Mayo football. Every weakness in Mayo seems to be crippling while other teams seem to mask their flaws to an extent. I remember 98 v Kildare and Ray trying to track back after a turnover in the Kildare 45, He was supporting the attack. Kildare had about 6 forwards on three defenders and Ray was struggling to cover the ground. He was reduced to gesticulating and pointing to Donnellan and Fallon, who tore past him, who to pick up. But Kildare blew the chance and Ray looked nonplussed and went up for the big cup later, fair play to him. I remember thinking though if a Mayo player did that he would never get away with it. It would have ended in grief for sure. The best think that Mayomanagement can learn at this stage is that they cant take a chance with iffy selections or tactics.

Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on July 17, 2008, 10:07:37 PM
Ray Silke says that Johnno "did not have his best day in the bainisteoir's bib" on Sunday. Unlike one of Johnno's old boys to have a go - even the lads who didn't get on with him talk him up.

http://www.galwayadvertiser.ie/content/index.php?aid=13024

Not one bit unlike Silke to have a go imo. The two don't get on at all. Has been tension between them for a couple of years. But I wouldn't dispute what he says regarding the match-ups.

Quote from: Maradona on July 17, 2008, 02:51:17 PM
Yeah, but you get my point. The team was picked Boyle Conroy Higgins Cunniffe Heaney Nallen, then the players should have played in those positions and not followed what appeared to be designated attackers all over the place. The defence was totally out of shape because of this. I dont think I ever saw so many players on man-marking jobs at inter-county, certainly you never see Galway doing it to us

I agree, ideally gusy should be picked in a position and man whoever comes into that territory. However Mayo have serious problems in defence and it would be foolhardy at this point in time to let Galway put who they wanted on some of Mayo's weaker players. O'Mahony was, I think, 100% right to adopt a horses for courses approach. Problem was he picked the wrong horses for the wrong courses.
We all had various ideas of where we thought certain players should play and I don't recall any one even suggesting that Nallen should pick Mattie Clancy (I actually don't think Nallen got the roasting some suggest though) and Conroy to pick Nicky Joyce.
I think we were all a little guilty of over estimating Heaney's ability to tame Joyce as well

Quote from: the Deel Rover on July 17, 2008, 02:50:23 PM

Quote from: moysider on July 17, 2008, 02:48:05 PM

Quote from: Duine Eile on July 16, 2008, 09:44:56 PM
Ya last Sunday's game, trusted someone else to set the recorder, won't be doing that again in a hurry! >:( thanks moysider

I ve just started the recording process. Hopefully it ll turn out ok.

You wouldn't be able to alter the result by any chance moysider :D did you enjoy those pints yesterday

Pints still have a bitter aftertaste unfortunately. I watched a recording of  the 06 Connacht final instead of last Sunday s match and guess what? We won by a point. And Mac was playing and we were so wasteful after dominating midfield it was surreal we only won by 1 in the end. Our wastefulness was dire but the game is worth watching again. One thing that struck me was how comfortable Dermot Geraghty was as a marker. Along with Aiden Higgins he looks like a very few we have that dont look scared playin in the last 3. Geraghty there the last day and we would have been able to play Keith Higgins elsewhere. Liam o malley was also very good that day. These were young lads at the time but they ve been left behind because of Sept. 06 while attempts are being made to rebuild with lesser players. Thing is they were only kids at the time and they were discarded before their time.

Quote from: moysider on July 18, 2008, 01:04:20 AM

Quote from: the Deel Rover on July 17, 2008, 02:50:23 PM

Quote from: moysider on July 17, 2008, 02:48:05 PM

Quote from: Duine Eile on July 16, 2008, 09:44:56 PM
Ya last Sunday's game, trusted someone else to set the recorder, won't be doing that again in a hurry! >:( thanks moysider

I ve just started the recording process. Hopefully it ll turn out ok.

You wouldn't be able to alter the result by any chance moysider :D did you enjoy those pints yesterday

Pints still have a bitter aftertaste unfortunately. I watched a recording of  the 06 Connacht final instead of last Sunday s match and guess what? We won by a point. And Mac was playing and we were so wasteful after dominating midfield it was surreal we only won by 1 in the end. Our wastefulness was dire but the game is worth watching again. One thing that struck me was how comfortable Dermot Geraghty was as a marker. Along with Aiden Higgins he looks like a very  we have that dont look scared playin in the last 3. Geraghty there the last day and we would have been able to play Keith Higgins elsewhere. Liam o malley was also very good that day. These were young lads at the time but they ve been left behind because of Sept. 06 while attempts are being made to rebuild with lesser players. Thing is they were only kids at the time and they were discarded before their time.

Have to agree with you. I'd have questioned Geraghty's size in the past but he is definitely worth a place on the panel and is surely a better corner-back than Colm Boyle. He is only 25 this year as well . . .
I heard his club form hasn't been great this year though?

Have nt seen Geraghty lately but it would nt surprise me if he s gone back a bit. He was doin the hard training back then and he s probably a bit pissed off with the game at this stage. I thought he was worth sticking with though. It was so obvious he loved those marking jobs. Even when he was beat to a ball he has still there to mess things up for the forward.

Yeah, he was definitely worth sticking with and people give out about Mayo having such a small man in the full-back line in 2004. The facts show that Geraghty did a good job on Gooch before Maughan made the 'easy' switch and swopped him with Pat Kelly. It was Kelly that Gooch caught the ball overhead against.
Geraghty was thrown out in the half-back line then like a fish out of water and it was inevitable he'd be taken off at half-time. But I always feel he was hard done by in that final
What we wouldn't give for someone like Gary Ruane now . . .

i cannot believe that nobody has mentioned ger cafferkys name thro all this debate.he had an excellent campaign for the u 21s this year and at the very least was deserving of the 30th place on the panel which has still been left open.i agree   that dermot geraghty should still be on the panel but most fans complained about his lack of height rather than his ability . j.om never picked him and i think he just opted out rather than sit on the bench . i am sure m. meehan was glad to see the back of him as bar a sigerson cup match in 2002 where he scored about 2.03 ,he never got much  change out of him.

Yeah Cafferkey's absence from the panel is strange. Maybe O'Mahony sees no future in him but I would have thought he was definitely worth a go, if only to bring him along for the future. I said this the time the panel was picked.
I think, defensively, we could be okay in the next few years.
Keith Higgins, Trevor Howley and Tom Cunniffe will be coming into their prime. Chris Barrett will be back (a major loss this year) and you'll have younger lads like Kevin McLoughlin from Knockmore and Ger Cafferkey along with possibly a couple of this year's minors like full-back Kevin Keane and wing-back Cathal Freeman give us loads of options.
Add in Boyle at wing-back too.

I think Cafferkey's injury in the winter goosed him. Expect to see him next year.

RnG there is hope with a lot of those players. Personally i don't think Boyle is good enough. I was sitting along his wing at the 2006 u21 Final and he had to be subbed after 20 minutes. Roasted. And it has been the same most days since. We anoint to many footballers on the basis that they can run fast.

Horan is spot on with his analysis. If John Maughan or Mickey Moran had prepared the Mayo team in the same manner over the past two years they would be hanging from the Mall in Castlebar! All the same O'Mahony has to be given time. We would be the laughing stock of the country if we shafted him. Ultimately I believe Noel Connelly is the man for the job but 2 or 3 years time will be his coming.

QuoteO'Mahony was, I think, 100% right to adopt a horses for courses approach.

I think he was wrong. All winter our backs have been pulled apart with their naivite. You can't create classy forwards, but a back line can be coached properly. Six man markers was not the way to go. I think our backs have been badly coached, and our players in general have been badly coached for many years. Fitness, natural skill - we have it. Tactically we are a million miles away.

I'm suprised nobody has picked up on the point I made earlier in the week about how similar the game was to the league match between the two teams. It is shocking that lessons were not learned.

And then again for the second year in a row the glaring problems have the league were ignored and now the changes have to be made in high Summer.

I really do despair.

I'm not sure what you are suggesting Barney. I know perhaps coaching on likes of Conroy and Boyle etc wasn't too evident but when you have a brittle enough defence, which we do at the minute, you are proababy best employed trying to put your weaker players on players they can handle rather than think they can cope with anyone that comes into their zone.
But I just think O'Mahony got the match-ups badly wrong.
Regarding Cafferkey he was flying for the Under 21's in spring, can't understand why he wasn't brought on from there. And yeah Connelly looks to be next in line. Wouldn't be surprised if Holmes was in with him though  :o

The game is not as simple as 6 backs marking 6 forwards. The top class managers like Harte and O'Connor are able to devise systems of play to shore up weaknesses. Tyrone did not have a brilliant defence on paper when they won the AI and no full-backs but worked around it. My feeling is that JOM has been left behind.

Blanket man to man marking puzzles me; all I can see are problems, with little or no apparent advantages. I am genuinely perplexed here and not taking a lash at The Messiah or anything like that.
Maybe someone would be kind enough to enlighten me.
It seems to me that if all defenders and midfielders are instructed to shadow a particular opponent, the initiative always lies with the opposition.
Let us say that Liam Sammon decides to move Barry Cullinane forward to where an orthodox full forward normally operates and this is done as part of a rehearsed ploy.
Ronan McGarrity would then be designated to follow him.

Barry might not be much of a full forward but Ronan would be even less of a full back.

Furthermore, Ronan would have the additional disadvantage of having to adapt to different colleagues beside him as Sammon could deliberately switch his forwards about at will and Mayo would then have to keep reacting in response.
To my inexpert way of thinking, the traditional concept of zone defending makes far more sense and gives defenders the opportunity of building up cohesion and understanding with those around them.
Does any other county go in for man to man marking to the extent Mayo does?
Someone with a good memory might tell me if Mayo's policy is more effective in keeping opposition scores down than was the case before this man on man stuff came to pass.

Lar I  agree (had to edit that - misread first time!). If an attacking team kicks balls to their forwards the back is going to lose out some of the time, and to a deadly forward like a Meehan or Joyce they will take that opportunity. They only need the ball 3 or 4 times in a dangerous position to do the damage. So supply has to be cut out.

John Maughan has dusted down the gloves for JOM (in a nice way but OUCH!!)

QuoteDespite scoring seven points on the day, Alan Dillon ended up on the loosing side in last weekends Connacht Final. (Photo: Sportsfile)

The day started off so well last Sunday with the minors doing the business with a merited, if uninspiring, victory over Roscommon in the curtain raiser. One never knows how many of these young men will go on to play senior inter county football, but it was hugely significant and important that we stopped the rot of loosing provincial deciders at this grade. A noticeable feature of this game was the physical stature of the subs used during the match. They were so much bigger and stronger than the players they were replacing. Quite a few people have commented to me on lots of occasions about the great big minor teams Mayo produced year on year at this level decades ago. I just thought the gene mix in the last few decades wasn't producing big strapping lads like we once did. I suppose the size of young footballers years ago could have something to do with the fact that these young cubs would be fed on good wholesome, home produced fare that added the right kind of poundage. There is no doubt that size counts at this level. Last Sunday proved that there are big lads around the place. It was just a question of finding them and getting them involved at this level.


A good start was essential

There was a great air of anticipation around the town for the senior game from early morning. Helicopters were arriving at the rear of McHale Park prior to the game bringing its own bit of excitement and razz matazz to the occasion. McHale Park was hosting its last Connacht final in its present format, before a major revamp will see will it as a state of the art 40,000 capacity stadium. It will arguably be the best provincial venue in the country for its next Connacht final. There was a fantastic crowd of close to 32,000 at the match on Sunday, which is a brilliant attendance, when you consider that numbers have been falling around the country at championship matches this year.

Then again, Galway and Mayo games have always tickled the fancy of followers of football as both teams are renowned for playing a style of football that is easy on the eye. It was expected that Mayo would really tear into Galway after the disappointing manner in which they were beaten in last year's Connacht semi final in Pearse Stadium. In fact the opposite transpired. Mayo were slow out of the blocks and very lethargic in the opening twenty minutes, with the defence, in particular, leaking all over the place. Of course there was a doubt coming into this game about a number of positions in that Mayo defence and their ability to contain a very potent Galway attack.


Doubts were justified

Unfortunately the doubts were justified as Kieran Conroy and Colm Boyle were called ashore minutes after Galway had raced into a seven point lead. Now it would be wrong of me to criticise those players in any way. They went out to do their best and unfortunately it just didn't happen for them on the day. However the majority of football people realise that Kieran Conroy will not make a full back. His basic instinct is just not defence minded enough to cut it at this level. Most of his football has been played at midfield with his club and in my opinion he should have been considered for a position other than in the full back line.

Colm Boyle is an orthodox wing back and I believe it is for one of those positions he should have been considered for Sunday's game. Remember we were destroyed in Pearse Stadium last year when we ended up playing two wing backs in our full back line for twenty minutes of the opening half. We should have learned from that. If you can keep it tight at the back, and in particular not concede goals, I always feel you have a chance of success. When Peadar Gardiner and Aidan Higgins were eventually introduced, they had an immediate impact with both bringing experience and a stabilising influence to proceedings.

Whenever you play Galway it is so important to nullify their most influential player. Our National league match in McHale Park earlier this year and Galway's championship matches in this year's campaign confirmed that Padraig Joyce is still Galway's most influential player. To win last Sunday we needed a sticky man-marker with the simple instruction to stick with Joyce wherever he went.

David Heaney was not the man for this role. David is a ball player who loves to drive forward at any opportunity and by doing so last Sunday; he left huge holes in defence. It's also a pity we didn't have Ger Cafferkey from Ballina togged out on Sunday. He is a player that has caught the eye having represented Mayo at under 21 level for three years. I thought he was excellent in this year's campaign. He did a fantastic job on no less a player than Kerry's Tommy Walsh in this years All Ireland semi final. I think he should have been involved last Sunday. In past years when playing Galway in the championship we had a player from Shrule Glencorrib, who thrived on doing a man-marking job on Michael Meehan. Dermot Geraghty had an excellent record on Meehan at all levels, holding him to a handful of scores having marked him at all grades and Sigerson cup competition for over six years. Surely he could have been carried as the 30th player on the squad, even if only for this game? That would have released Keith Higgins, Mayo's best defender, to shackle any one of the other Galway forwards.


Super second half

With our team strengthened with defensive substitutions, Mayo shook themselves from their slumber and reduced that seven point deficit to just four at the break. We were dealt a body blow in that first half with Trevor Mortimer having to leave play with a hamstring injury. He was a huge loss as he was really on his game from the off. Austin O Malley was getting no change at full forward from Finian Hanley. A more elusive type of player might have presented more of a challenge to the full back from the start. Billy Joe Padden displayed a huge appetite for action when he came on for Austin, kicking two excellent scores in the second half. His introduction saw Alan Dillon, who was excellent throughout, moved into the full forward line and we were now rampant at this stage.

The holes that were evident in our defence in the first half were now appearing in the Galway back line. Aidan Kilcoyne scored a good goal to put us a point up with fifteen minutes left and I thought that home advantage and the local vocal crowd would carry us home. However it wasn't to be as Galway kicked three scores to our one in the last eight minutes, and that was just about enough to see them win this championship final. Mayo were excellent in the second half and contributed in no small way to a most entertaining match against these old rivals. It was definitely one that got away from us and we were left to lament what might have been if we had started with the team that finished the match?

So where to now? Traditionally we haven't embraced the back door well on the occasions we have taken this route. A lot depends on the draw in a couple of week's time. A victory in our first game through the back door would see us in the very same position as Galway. If the players decide to adopt the right attitude I see no reason why we couldn't advance to a quarter final and take our chances from there.







 

JM was just as blind as JOM when the pressure was on.

On the Dermot Geragthy thing. He pulled out of the panel himself around the time of the FBD. He asked Johnno where he was in the pecking order and Johnno said at the moment he was behind Liam O'Malley but that could change for Championship depending on form. Dermot's being on the go a good while now (he has played in 2 minor finals, a U21 final and 2 senior finals and lost them all) along with Sigerson and club. I'd say it was much more his decision than Johnno's. He hasn't had the best year for club but I'd still say he better than Boyle and co and is a natural corner back.

Hard to disagree with the analysis of either JM or Horan. I think most of what they said was said here already. I think pretty much everyone could see what was wrong (including Johnno who made the right changes) the last day, the question now turns to can the problems be rectified and can the positives be built on. With all the talk of problems we have almost forgotten the positives (Clarke in great form, a real midfield partnership, Harte doing great work on the 40 and the return to form of Dillon). If we had won this game by a point I think most of us here would expect us to drive on and improve the next day. There is no real reason why we shouldn't improve now even though we lost. We know the problems but we have time to work on them and hopefully they can be improved upon greatly.

QuoteIf we had won this game by a point I think most of us here would expect us to drive on and improve the next day. There is no real reason why we shouldn't improve now even though we lost.

I don't think so - if we met any kind of half decent team we would have been exposed again in Croke Park in front of the whole country.

At least now expectations will be low, with the right attitude we can try and iron out problems. Hopefully we win and have a somewhat better chance in Croker.

Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on July 18, 2008, 08:19:25 AM
And yeah Connelly looks to be next in line. Wouldn't be surprised if Holmes was in with him though  :o

He has managed Mayo to their last 2 national titles and I sometimes cannot understand why he gets so much stick from some Mayo supporters.  Personally, I dont think he should have taken the senior job when he did as he had just finished playing himself and would have been very close to a lot of the players still in the team/panel.  I understand that he was put under a lot of pressure by the CB to take it at the time and in any case he ended up just keeping the seat warm until the tanned one waltzed back into town.  Still, you would have to say that himself and Connelly are best placed to take over from JOM in the future and have earned the right to do so..................................

Below is a quote taken from McStay's article this week.


'But I often think Mayo teams need good coaches more than they need good managers.'

Myself and a friend had this debate last Fri. night. I was of the opinion that Sammon was one of the best coaches in the country and may well be a top manager too given he s only in the job. I was nearly ate. Organisation was the thing that counted in my friend's book and Johnno reigned supreme as an organiser.
DePaor outlines what every Galway manager in his time brought to the table. In Johnno case it was mostly organisation and discipline that seemed to make the difference. Johnno was into video analysis 20 years ago. Instead of mars bars and milk after training it was sandwiches with brown bread. When Richie Fahy ordered a plate of chips with an after match meal Johnno sent them back and decreed that no Galway footballer would be havin chips with his dinner.
I wonder what this approach brings to the table now[no pun intended]. Things change in ten years and what gave Johnno an edge then is pretty much standard procedure now at club level never mind county. Johnno must now be judged not on what he did ten years ago but in his later years in Galway when the Ulster revolution was in full swing and Kerry were flexing their muscles. His final years in Galway were not happy ones. His attempts at rebuilding the team he inherited failed as he is similarly finding the same task here difficult. Johnno has had most success inheriting a made team and getting more out of them but has no history of building/rebuilding a team.

What we need is more coaching input into the team and tactical awareness. McStay points out how Galway went looking for goals the last day where Mayo would have settled for points. Thats 2 years in a row Galway ve done that and it will be interesting whether they continue with this against other opposition. That kind of thing does nt just happen. Mayo goals are incidental. Our second v Sligo one of the few exceptions.

There is the perception out there now anyway that Mayo will give up goals so whoever we meet will come looking for them and not just the Galways and Kerrys of this world. We might nt be much worse than some other teams but until we get miserly at the back we ll be seen as easy meat. So for the rest of this Summer it is essential we play with an extra defender or sweeper- call him what you like. We have no choice. We used to do that 10/12 years ago though the system back then happened by accident and was never perfected.The only game we have nt leaked goal chances this year was v Kerry ironically, when we had Trevor covering back.

As for the Connelly and Holmes campaign. I would nt entertain it at all. First of all we re not in the market for a manager and if we are anytime soon it ll be a sad place we ll be in. Johnno must be given the opportunity to get us up and running seeing he was given the task in the first place. Secondly the next manager must be a coach first and foremost - like Mickey Moran was. Neither Holmes or Connelly fit into 'a top Coach' category. Connelly is a blood and guts presence whose biggest value to the team would be in the hour before throw in. While there is some place for someone like that in a management team the main man needs to be someone with a tactical brain and a coach - and I m not talking about some kid with badges either.

Somebody asked about the record of JOM in recent years. Since the AI win in 2001 for Galway this is how he has fared:

2002

Galway 0-12 Mayo 1-7
Galway 1-11 Sligo 0-11
Kerry 2-17 Galway 1-12

2003

Galway 0-12 Ros 0-8
Galway 1-14 Mayo 0-13
Galway 1-11 Donegal 0-14
Galway 0-11 Donegal 0-14

2004

Galway 8-14 London 0-8
Mayo 0-18 Galway 1-9
Galway 2-8 Louth 0-9
Galway 0-11 Tyrone 1-16

2007

Galway 2-10 Mayo 0-9
Mayo 1-19 Cavan 3-7
Mayo 1-6 Derry 2-13

2008

Mayo 3-11 Sligo 0-6
Mayo 1-14 Galway 2-12

While his achievements in Connacht with Galway remained consistent up until the last year the one thing missing is a win over a big name in over 7 years. I am sure he must have doubts himself at this stage. The next round of the Qualifiers is crucial for the credibility of the manager with his panel. He must turn around the situation, get the players motivated for the challegne and nab a big name.

Thanks, Barney, I appreciate your answer.
I feel our problem is that many players just don't mark up at all, either man to man or any other way. Heaney on Sunday was a classic case of this. He has been with Holmes, Maughan and now O'Mahony and none of them appear to have been able to curb his tendency to move forward and stay there.
The other half backs have a tendency to stand back from their men also; at least that was the case when the game started, and as a result of the slack marking, Galway once again got off to a flying start.
That's really elementary tactics and shouldn't take a genius to spot or correct.

One last point while I'm hot and bothered about marking, or rather not marking.
I think this quote is as apt as anything I have seen in a long, long time.

QuoteO'Mahony was, I think, 100% right to adopt a horses for courses approach. Problem was he picked the wrong horses for the wrong courses.

That's a classic one, R&GS. Unfortunately, it's also 100% spot on.