Might as well get this one started, even though there's two plus weeks to go. Injuries seem to be clearing up on the Westmeath end which is good to see, hopefully everyone gets through the Championship weekend ahead.
Will only be a kick of the ball in this due to the fact it's in Tullamore and the feel good factor in Biffoland at present. Drove through Tullamore on my way to the Longford game and you'd swear it was the third Monday in September 1982 with the amount of flags and bunting around the place. That coupled with the fact that Offaly are coming good now as witnessed by them putting Derry to the sword recently and our poor display against the Slashers gives real cause for concern. Gary's wedding being on de day of the match won't help matters either but hopefully we'll be focussed, put in a much better performance than the last day and scrape a win. The team I'd select if all fit would be:
Conaughton
Boyle Gavin Keane
Nachie Heavin Heals
Duffy Flanagan
Willo Smyth O'Donoghue
Budda Dennis Dessie
Duffy boost for Westmeath
22 May 2008
Westmeath are set to welcome back David Duffy for their Leinster SFC quarter-final clash with Offaly on June 7 after he made his return from injury in a club game last weekend.
The rising midfield star played his first game since damaging ankle ligaments in the NFL win over Monaghan last month when he lined out for Shandonagh in their intermediate championship victory over Milltownpass at St. Loman's last Sunday.
Duffy, who missed the NFL Division 2 final against Dublin and the Leinster SFC first round meeting with Longford, came through the game
unscathed and looks set to renew his midfield partnership with Martin Flanagan against the Faithful County with Donal O'Donoghue likely to return to the half forward line where he featured for much of the league.
Meanwhile, Dessie Dolan, who made a surprise appearance against Longford after a hamstring injury lay-off, will get further match practice under his belt when he lines out for Garrycastle against Bunbrosna in Saturday's senior championship clash.
I think I'll hold my fire on this thread until next week, and concentrate on Laois first. What I will say is that Westmeath have to be favourites, with a good league campaign, a championship match behind them, and a good midfield which should give them a big advantage.
However, we are waiting in the long grass, and the noises coming out of the camp at the moment are encouraging, but we never know what Offaly will be like until the ball is thrown in, especially in the first game of the year.
One thing, I think, is for certain. Offaly will have to spoil midfield, and win loads of breaks. Then we have to deliver the ball quickly, and accurately, into the inside men, and not arse around with it, allowing Westmeath to get set defensively, and dispossess us. If we start soloing, or over handpassing, in the middle third, we are doomed.
By the way, Tullamore will have nothing to do with it I feel. Westmeath like playing there, at all levels, and have won some big games in Tullamore. As for Cowen being a catalyst, come off it. You'll have to do better than that to talk us up :D
If the match was in Croker and Bertie was still stuttering his way around the country I would agree with us being favourites. However it's not in Croker, Tullamore hasn't been kind to us in recent years and there's a great buzz around Offaly at present, know loads of lads who've headed home to Birr, Clara, Tullamore and de likes for the "homecoming" and I think there'll be a big local crowd waiting for us in O'Connor Park, all these factors can contribute and I think we have to be very wary. Not trying to talk any team up, genuinely believe this game is on a knife edge...
I believe it will be close too, but not for the reasons you suggest :D
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 22, 2008, 01:52:59 PM
However, we are waiting in the long grass, and the noises coming out of the camp at the moment are encouraging, but we never know what Offaly will be like until the ball is thrown in, especially in the first game of the year.
I was reading in our local Ulster Gazette that Offaly recently beat a full strength Derry side 2-12 to 0-14(or close to that). Are yis playing the Micko card or wha?
It wasn't a full strength Derry side. They only had 4 starters, and maybe 3 subs that came on, that will feature against Donegal.
We did have a good win over Mayo as well recently, but challenges are challenges.
Report on the Derry Offaly game http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=18.msg294867#msg294867 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=18.msg294867#msg294867)
Quote from: fer fox ache on May 19, 2008, 04:24:31 PM
AZ here's the teams ans scorers. Derry were well below strength only McGuckin, McEldowney, Bradley and Gilligan started the league final. No one in the half-backs, midfield or half-forwards started against Kerry. Having said that ye looked very sharp Niall McNamee got 1-6 from play, okay he was given plenty of room but still. From the way your management were going on you could tell they were taking it seriously. Ye'll give Westmeath their fill of it
Derry: John Deighan; Kevin McGuckin, Kevin McCloy, Francis McEldowney; Paul Cartin, Michael McGoldrick, Joe Keenan; James Conway, Patsy Bradley; Ryan McElhone, Paul Murphy (0-3), Enda Lynn; Collie Devlin (0-1, free), Paddy Bradley (0-4, two frees, sideline), Conleith Gilligan (0-4, 45, two frees)
Subs: Michael McIver (0-1) for Keenan, Michael McBride for McGoldrick, Ryan Dillon for McGuckin, Enda Muldoon for Murphy, Raymond Wilkinson for Lynn, Fergal Doherty (0-1) for Patsy Bradley, Mark Craig for McEldowney, Rian Kealey for McElhone
Offaly: Padhraic Kelly; Ger Rafferty, Shane Sullivan, Brian Darby (0-1); Paul McConway, Scott Brady, Nigel Grehan (0-1); Alan McNamee, Alan Smith (0-1); Ciaran McManus (0-1), Pascal Keelaghan (1-0), Karl Slattery; Thomas Deehan (0-1), James Keane, Niall McNamee (1-9, three frees)
Subs: Willie Mulhall for Deehan, Niall Darby for Sullivan. Blood sub: Gerry Grehan for Brady.
I know Croí, if you read it, it's addressed to me. I was trying to do some discreet snooping away from the main board where ye might see it :D
Realise that, was throwing it up there for benny and any other interested souls who might be dropping in. Now do u have any links for the Mayo game or do I have to go and do some snooping myself??? ;)
I think the Mayo thread had a few mentions. Maybe. I can't remember ;)
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 22, 2008, 03:22:54 PM
I think the Mayo thread had a few mentions. Maybe. I can't remember ;)
There goes de rest of de afternoon so...
Edit: Arragh not even a full line up, only this to be found http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=7581.msg293080#msg293080 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=7581.msg293080#msg293080)
Quote from: the Deel Rover on May 16, 2008, 11:32:08 AM
i was told from midfield up was Mc Garritty, Parsons, Pat Harte, Alan Dillon, Aidan Kilcoyne, Conor Mort, Austie o' Malley and Moran he didn't tell me the backs :(
Dolan has apparently played a full game for Garrycastle and Duffy one for Shandonagh in recent club championship games so hopefully everybody will be fully fit for the weekend.
According to Hoganstand Healy picked up a knock for Salthill but it doesn't threaten his participation next Saturday.
Offaly seem to be coming into good form at the right time beating Derry and Mayo recently. I think the slight expectation on the Westmeath team following the good league is a bit of a handicap at the moment, there was a fair bit of caginess against Longford and I am expecting something similar against Offaly. I think this could go either way, it wouldn't surprise me if either team were bet by 4 points or more.
Apart from the fact that I won't be able to record the whole match for later viewing the non-showing of the game live could work out well in that more people might make the short trip to Tullamore, a packed O'Connor park with a bit more nice weather would be great.
They will surly stream the match on the internet on rte live
I'm hearing rumblings from home that this game could be a 2.30 throw in now. Any word on this?
Haven't heard anything on this but I hope it's not going to be that early. If the weather continues good the heat at that time of the day wouldn't help anybody's cause, although it's pretty probable that it'll be pissing rain come the weekend anyway...
Changing the time also wouldn't be fair to fans who have bought tickets based on the evening throw in who might have plans/commitments elsewhere earlier in the day and may not be able to make it. It wouldn't surprise me though if it was changed.
Saturday
Leinster SF quarter-final: Offaly v Westmeath, Tullamore, 6.30pm
Referee: J McKee (Armagh)
From the GAA
Ah yeah, I know that's the official time gerry. I just heard last night that there was a possible switch on the cards.
Thats from an email this morning. I know its the GAA and they cant be relied on.
Probably someone at home putting 2 and 2 together. I can't see them changing it now. Maybe we should tell the Westmeath lads it's on at 6.30, and then play it at 2.30 without ye :D
Really looking forward to this now, should be a good crowd at it due to the armchair fans more than likely having to take the trip up the road if they want to watch it. All for Westmeath to do really, struggled against Longford for long periods and Garys wedding on the Saturday isn't exactly ideal preparations as I'd imagine there'll be a good few of the panel at the ceremony. Add that to the feel good factor in Biffoland at present and the fact that it's in Tullamore we've won 1 of the last 9 meetings (according to http://www.gaainfo.com/compare.php?co=0&team1=30&team2=24&sport=f&years=120&type=5 (http://www.gaainfo.com/compare.php?co=0&team1=30&team2=24&sport=f&years=120&type=5)) means we're right up against it. Does anyone remember the last Westmeath victory in Tullamore???
Westmeath won a good few 'neutral' games at all levels in Tullamore I think. The last senior game there, in the championship, was probably the 1997 quarter final where it was a draw, and Offaly won the replay well in Mullingar on their way to the last Leinster title. I'd take that again :D
I'm not buying the 'Westmeath are up against it' line either. Westmeath are deserved favourites given their league campaign, their strong midfield and ball winning half forward and half back lines, the fact they have a championship game behind them, and the fact that Dessie is getting fitter all the time.
For Offaly to have any hope, and I mean *any* hope, we will have to lay the bodies out to win breaking ball around the middle third of the field, and when we get those breaks, immediately deliver GOOD ball in front of the full forward line. If we can do enough of that, we have forwards that can win ball and score. We also have forwards that can score goals.
If Westmeath dominate the midfield area, and are given time to organise defensively through Offaly over-soloing or handpassing, Westmeath will win by 6 or 7 points.
Might have won some neutral games maybe but not against the Biffos. Feck sake, even the minors lost there in 2004. Tradition counts and in this area we are lacking.
Certainly don't buy Westmeath being favourites, on every match related thread you'll find the comment about championship being a different ball game than league and this is no different. Only have to look as far as Wicklow-Kildare, Fermanagh-Monaghan, Wexford-Eastmeath for examples.
One of the many things we'll have to work on is not being opened up for goals like against Longford, Barden just salomed right through our defence. To be honest I think there'll be only a point or 2 in it, hopefully we come out the right side.
If Offaly play to their potential, we can win this, no doubt about it. We'd never fear Westmeath, and vice versa I'm sure, so we'd be confident that if we play well, Westmeath will have to play very well to beat us, and they'll deserve it. If Offaly play well, Westmeath will have to adapt, as the gameplan against Longford would not work. H
But as I say, if Westmeath can dominate possession, enforce their gameplan, or get Offaly fumbling and foostering, Westmeath will win comfortably.
I'm looking forward to it. I'd like a good game, but I'd prefer a boring 15 point win for Offaly :D
Yeah, I think there's a big game in Offaly and I think it's coming on Saturday, which is why I believe we're up against it. It will have to be a performance like we produced down in Pearse Stadium in 06, balls and gusto...
I took this from the programme for the Westmeath v Kildare match played in O'Connor Park in 1992.
Prior to that match Westmeath had played 17 times at OCP, winning 5, drawing one & losing 11.
Their five wins came against Laois in 1949, 1961 & 1970, Kildare in 1960 and Dublin in 1967. They drew with Offaly in 1949.
I recall they were well beaten by Kildare that day in 1992. Since then they drew with Offaly at the venue in 1997 and beat Laois in 2000.
Some of the Westmeath posters might recall if they played any other senior matches In Tullamore since 1992 (I'm from Offaly).
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on June 03, 2008, 03:42:55 PM
Really looking forward to this now, should be a good crowd at it due to the armchair fans more than likely having to take the trip up the road if they want to watch it. All for Westmeath to do really, struggled against Longford for long periods and Garys wedding on the Saturday isn't exactly ideal preparations as I'd imagine there'll be a good few of the panel at the ceremony. Add that to the feel good factor in Biffoland at present and the fact that it's in Tullamore we've won 1 of the last 9 meetings (according to http://www.gaainfo.com/compare.php?co=0&team1=30&team2=24&sport=f&years=120&type=5 (http://www.gaainfo.com/compare.php?co=0&team1=30&team2=24&sport=f&years=120&type=5)) means we're right up against it. Does anyone remember the last Westmeath victory in Tullamore???
I remember they lost to Dublin in O'Connor Park as well one day, it may have been before 1992. I remember that big blondy lad with the mullet, I think he was from Coralstown-Kinnegad (Lynch??) came on and one of the Dublin lads on the hill shouted 'Jaysis, I know Westmeath is bleedin' small, but could they not find 15 bleedin' fellas to play?'
I wasn't at that match but it may have been on the June Bank Holiday Monday in 1993. I seem to recall Offaly just about beat Carlow on the same bill as Dublin beating Westmeath. The football results section of UF.com confirms the Offaly/Carlow result.
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 04, 2008, 08:57:27 AM
I remember they lost to Dublin in O'Connor Park as well one day, it may have been before 1992. I remember that big blondy lad with the mullet, I think he was from Coralstown-Kinnegad (Lynch??) came on and one of the Dublin lads on the hill shouted 'Jaysis, I know Westmeath is bleedin' small, but could they not find 15 bleedin' fellas to play?'
Thanks for that poth, so Westmeath have never beaten Offaly in the Championship in Tullamore, there's more incentive if any was needed...
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 04, 2008, 08:57:27 AM
I remember they lost to Dublin in O'Connor Park as well one day, it may have been before 1992. I remember that big blondy lad with the mullet, I think he was from Coralstown-Kinnegad (Lynch??) came on and one of the Dublin lads on the hill shouted 'Jaysis, I know Westmeath is bleedin' small, but could they not find 15 bleedin' fellas to play?'
That was Noel Lynch from Killucan, close enough AZ, certainly no mistaking him anyway :D article on him here http://www.hoganstand.com/Westmeath/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=57005 (http://www.hoganstand.com/Westmeath/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=57005)
Delayed coverage on rte now, hopefully will get 2 de boozer in time to watch a victory...
RTE to show deferred coverage of Tullamore clash
04 June 2008
An agreement has been reached between RTE and Leinster Council which will see the state broadcaster show deferred coverage of Saturday evening's Leinster SFC quarter-final between Offaly and Westmeath.
The eagerly-awaited O'Connor Park derby clash was originally due to be broadcast live, but because of RTE's contractual requirements to screen the entire Euro 2008 soccer tournament, they are committed to showing the tournament opener between Switzerland and the Czech Republic instead.
With the soccer game kicking off at 5pm, deferred coverage of the Offaly-Westmeath clash will now be broadcast at 9.50pm on RTE2. Saturday week's Leinster SHC semi-final between Dublin and Wexford, which was also under threat from Euro 2008, will now be shown live after Leinster Council agreed to bring forward the throw-in time from 6.30pm to 4.15pm.
What a shambles. Will RTE even have radio coverage of the game, now that MW is gone? I don't know if there's a "live" stream on the web, but I wouldn't bother with it if you've the same standard of 2M download that I have. You might as well watch it on Aertel .....
So what time is the game on again? Judas Priest, what is the point of creating a Master Fixture List?
I was in great form all week until now ;D
Offaly (SF v Westmeath): P Kelly; G Rafferty, S Sullivan, J Keane; P McConway, S Brady, N Grennan; C McManus, A McNamee; B Darby, K Slattery, N Smith; T Deehan, P Kelleghan, N McNamee.
How good is the Darby lad and how old is he? Don't know a whole lot about most of the defenders on that team but it's a strong looking midfield and full forward line. Hopefully McManus gets himself so psyched up again that he's completely ineffective and our defence can hold the full forward line, if we can manage that we should win. I'd expect Keane to pick up McNamee and Boyle, Deehan with Gavin on Kelleghan if he plays at full. If all three play to their full ability I'd fancy them to come out on top, could be three great individual battles between the 6 players in these opposing lines.
On McManus, he must be getting well on at this stage, anyone know what age he is?
Martin McHugh was tipping Offaly on drivetime sport yesterday evening and I can't argue with it. There wasn't much logic to his opinion, just a feeling he had. I kind of have the same feeling, especially with the game in Tullamore. I've no doubt however, that if everybody plays to their full ability we should have enough to win the game. Based on our own and others recent performances I think the worst thing that could happen is to go in at half time with any sort of a decent lead.
Looks like it's going to be a dogfight around the middle of the field. If Smith, Wilson and that other lad play deep for Westmeath, and Darby, Slattery and Smith do likewise for Offaly, every break is going to be a savage contest. Whoever wins the most of those breaks will win the game I think.
Darby and Slattery are natural half backs I'd have said. Smith is a young lad who is well able to fetch a ball, but he's very green.
I think the game will end up like this...should be fairly compressed around there.
Connaughton
Keane Gavin Boyle
McNamee Kellaghan Deehan
Healy Heavin Natchie
Smith Slattery Darby
Duffy Flanagan
McNamee McManus
Donoghue Smith Wilson Mangan
McConway Brady Grennan Keane
Dolan Glennon
Rafferty Sullivan
Kelly
Or it could easily go along the lines of the Dublin/Meath league game!
l_l
l l
Everybody else
Kelly
l_l
l l
We all know it wouldn't be Connaughton the lunatic standing peacefully in his goal if there was an all out maul taking place!
Very good :D
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 04, 2008, 08:57:27 AM
I remember they lost to Dublin in O'Connor Park as well one day, it may have been before 1992. I remember that big blondy lad with the mullet, I think he was from Coralstown-Kinnegad (Lynch??) came on and one of the Dublin lads on the hill shouted 'Jaysis, I know Westmeath is bleedin' small, but could they not find 15 bleedin' fellas to play?'
"Jaysus, they have Sindy playing lads" is another one I remember from that game
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on June 04, 2008, 11:15:34 AM
That was Noel Lynch from Killucan, close enough AZ, certainly no mistaking him anyway :D article on him here http://www.hoganstand.com/Westmeath/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=57005 (http://www.hoganstand.com/Westmeath/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=57005)
Good article, brought back a few memories. The GAA are blessed with plenty of unsung heroes like Noel Lynch.
Ah, what the hell is wrong with ye? ::)
It's a phoney war Billy.
However, we are in real trouble when you look at the sort of logical thinkers we are up against on Saturday. Ger Heavin was interviewed in the Star, and was defending Westmeath's new style of play. He included this gem.
"Now whoever concedes the least is more likely to win".
Can't argue with that.
This is too polite for words - you're letting the Biffos down AZ.
It's odd alright. The rivalry is there, but the bitterness seems to be absent :D We're trying to out-cute each other by talking up the other team. For Jaysus' sake, Croí is trying to imply that Brian Cowen is worth a few points to Offaly! :D
Well now I hardly expect the Biffo to come on in the 2nd half and do a Donaghy on it (or should that be Niall Sheridan) :P at full forward but with the amount of flags and bunting around the place you'd swear it was 1982. All this helps to focus the minds of players and give them that bit of confidence, something we need to be wary of...
As for reading the Star, tut, tut, tut... ;)
There's not really a lot to be said for tactics (two teams funnelling everyone back meaning that the game will probably finish about eight points to six), so we're mainly working ourselves up quietly. There's a few hurls being broken off each other over on uibhfhaili, but we need a Westmeath board to crash to make it all worthwhile.... :P
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on June 05, 2008, 11:34:09 AM
Well now I hardly expect the Biffo to come on in the 2nd half and do a Donaghy on it
Eugene Magee did say he was a handy corner forward, very civilised....for an Offaly man :)
It is a bit of a phoney war alright, but it's born out out of agenuine cageyness on both sides - after Longford the wind is truely out of our sails, and the savages to the south are very much an unknown quaintity, it being their first day out. I'm sure their thoughts are similar. Come back after the game though, bound to be some heat generated.
Also with the limited number of posters from each county, I think we kind of know each other a bit too well at this point - wasn't exactly a lot of slagging between ourselves and the Longford contingent either as I recall? What we need is a few Daithi type characters to get the thing going....
Daithi hasn't been the same since I met him at Dermot Brady's wedding :D Where's Iarmhí abú these days?
There is savage caginess. As it's our first day out, I'm not sure what we'll be like, even if the noises out of the camp are positive. We have the footballers to win, but we have to play a sensible game with the ball, and really lay out in trying to win the breaks in the middle. It'll be like a cattle mart in there.
Both sides know that either could win the game, I think, and it's making us nervous :D
Well this might get the hurls breaking over here...
Quote from by Bord na Mona man on uibhfhaili on Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:46 am
QuoteQuote
Plain of the Herbs wrote:I see Jimmy McKee from Armagh is the appointed referee. Does anyone know anything about him?
I presume he will be more tolerant of the Ulster style 'tackling' which mightn't suit the home team.
Correct, Westmeath this year are fairly physical.
I saw them against Monaghan where they should have had a couple of players sent off.
At one stage Michael Ennis came in and launched a drumroll of cowardly punches on a player who was lying facing down on the ground.
Also, if they are playing a blanket defence, an Armagh ref might ignore multiple tacklers on the player in possession, hands on the back and other infringements that go with that style of football.
Presume that is the same BNMM as over here. Firstly the player wasn't lying facing the ground, he landed on his back with the ball clutched to his chest. Nachie was fouled bring the ball forward, lost possession to ur man, obviously felt agrieved at not getting his free and aimed closed fists at the ball Ricky Hatton style. It was a free alright because he didn't use the open hand and yellow was fair enough since he used a flurry of them. Who was the other player???
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 05, 2008, 02:28:49 PM
Both sides know that either could win the game, I think, and it's making us nervous :D
I think, in the bigger scheme of things, both counties don't have very high expectations for the year also. What I mean is neither county expect to be at the business end of the championship. A tilt at Leinster would be brilliant, but possibly with the Dubs in a semi it's a tough assignment. I think we'd be a lot more boyant if we were in the other side of the draw. A quarter final through the qualifiers maybe the extent of either counties hopes. I've never seen it so subdued for games between old enemies, a lot of wait and see going on.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on June 05, 2008, 02:36:11 PM
Well this might get the hurls breaking over here...
Quote from by Bord na Mona man on uibhfhaili on Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:46 am
QuoteQuote
Plain of the Herbs wrote:I see Jimmy McKee from Armagh is the appointed referee. Does anyone know anything about him?
I presume he will be more tolerant of the Ulster style 'tackling' which mightn't suit the home team.
Correct, Westmeath this year are fairly physical.
I saw them against Monaghan where they should have had a couple of players sent off.
At one stage Michael Ennis came in and launched a drumroll of cowardly punches on a player who was lying facing down on the ground.
Also, if they are playing a blanket defence, an Armagh ref might ignore multiple tacklers on the player in possession, hands on the back and other infringements that go with that style of football.
Presume that is the same BNMM as over here. Firstly the player wasn't lying facing the ground, he landed on his back with the ball clutched to his chest. Nachie was fouled bring the ball forward, lost possession to ur man, obviously felt agrieved at not getting his free and aimed closed fists at the ball Ricky Hatton style. It was a free alright because he didn't use the open hand and yellow was fair enough since he used a flurry of them. Who was the other player???
Funny, I'd be fairly unabashed about our physical approach. I mean we were playing lovely football and winning nothing (not even friends) until Paudi arrived and directed our inate ignorance. The following year we were beaten and bullied out of it at this stage by Kildare of all counties. Long by time we got stuck in in my opinion. The other thing I'd say was that that physical approach wasn't on show as much against Longford, and at the end of the day that could have cost us. If we take a step back on Saturday no better county to take advantage of it than our hosts, becuase they definitely won't.
It is a very quiet build up, but I wouldn't rule out either team making a quarter final, by hook or by crook. Who knows what Dublin will be like, or even if they will get over Louth?
I think it's quiet because people are nervous. I'd be confident that Offaly will win if the scenarios I outlined above are met, but I have not great confidence that they will be. Westmeath would be confident that they can suffocate Offaly and give Dessie and Glennon the ammunition to win the game for them, but I think they realise that that might not happen either.
This one is on a knife edge I think. Games between the two are generally close anyway, but this could be a real war of attrition in the trenches.
Uibh Fhailí abú.
By the way, Westmeath are w*nkers. ;)
Ban Him Ban Him Ban Him!!! ;)
1. Personal abuse.
Personal abuse is one of the most common problems on internet boards. Known sometimes as 'playing the man', whether foul language is used or not, this behaviour is
not allowed.
e.g. Calling someone a fat fool is the same as calling someone something more vulgar. This rule applies even in situations where another user has breached this, or
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It's not personal gerry, it's business :D
Good man AZ, glad you haven't forgotten your roots and the old skirmishes with Daithí. He'll be there alright. Met him last week and while age has mellowed him I still think he'll be in full flow on the day. He's busy these days without access to the board so we're spared his philosophical musings. Real Deal is also still around. Responsible jobs and commitments have curtailed their exposure to forums such as this.
Speaking of Dermot Brady, I met him at the Longford game. In great form but still smoking the bloody cigarettes.
Any quiet confidence I had previously has evaporated as the game approaches. It will be a tight, untidy game which will be panned on the Sunday Game. Personally I'd settle for a one point win, even courtesy of a Morleyesque point. When the draw was made this game would have been the limit of our ambition and a victory would represent a satisfactory season, regardless of what happens afterwards. The satisfaction and bragging rights however from this particular match will be massive for the fans.
We've never beaten the Biffs in their own backyard in the championship. That record will go eventually, Saturday would be a nice time to put the record straight.
Lads, any of ye know how to get the game online, be it through Setanta or an Irish Proxy, I'm of the country for the game and this is one I definatelty dont want to miss!
Westmeath unchanged
06 June 2008
Westmeath manager Tomas O Flatharta has kept faith with the team that disposed of Longford in the first round for Saturday evening's Leinster SFC quarter-final against Offaly at Tullamore.
It means rising midfield star David Duffy, who still hasn't fully recovered from the ankle injury he sustained against Monaghan in the National League, has to be content with a place on the subs' bench as Martin Flanagan and Donal O'Donoghue continue their midfield partnership.
There is also no place in the starting line up for NFL Division 2 final man of the match Dermot Bannon, who missed the Longford game because of a stomach bug complaint. Team captain Dessie Dolan took his place on that occasion and, after recovering from a hamstring problem, will line out at top of the left - just hours after performing the Best Man duties at his brother Gary's wedding in Moynalty, Co. Meath.
Not surprisingly, Gary won't be part of the panel which is notable for the addition of county hurler Niall Kilcoyne, whose father David was the Lake County's first All-Star recipient in 1986.
Westmeath (SF v Offaly): G Connaughton; F Boyle, K Gavin, J Keane; M Ennis, D Heavin, D Healy; M Flanagan, D O'Donoghue; F Wilson, J Smyth, D Harte; A Mangan, Denis Glennon, D Dolan.
Surprised Duffy isn't starting, as far as I'm aware he's been playing full matches for Shandonagh recently so hopefully it's not the ankle that's the issue. I suppose it would be hard to drop anyone after the Longford game, Budda was unlucky to be substituted after all. There should be no room for complacency now, what with Duffy pounding the sidelines... Let's stick it to the Biffos...
Sorry Roseyland, never watched it through a proxy...
I'm very surprised that Duffy isn't starting, and I'm glad. I'm sure he'll be on after about 15 minutes if things aren't going well.
Bring it on Wasties. :D
Let's just hope Awfully live up to their name tomorrow night ;)
Let's hope Offaly live up to their tradition, their pride, their honour and their history.
Let's hope Westmeath do the same :P
We're too busy creating history and a tradition, and showing our pride and honour than to worry about the past.
We're quite happy to let you wallow in past glories and hopefully you'll be concentrating on that tomorrow night ;D
Form is temporary, class is permanent.
Hopefully we'll have too much of both for ye Johnny come latelys :D
What with McManus in the team form is pretty temporary alright :P
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on June 06, 2008, 11:49:01 AM
What with McManus in the team form is pretty temporary alright :P
Oooooh. The first hostage to fortune has been put out there :D If he scores 1-4 or something, I'll remind you of that :D
Lets just hope he's on the 45's again... ;)
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on June 05, 2008, 02:36:11 PM
Presume that is the same BNMM as over here. Firstly the player wasn't lying facing the ground, he landed on his back with the ball clutched to his chest. Nachie was fouled bring the ball forward, lost possession to ur man, obviously felt agrieved at not getting his free and aimed closed fists at the ball Ricky Hatton style. It was a free alright because he didn't use the open hand and yellow was fair enough since he used a flurry of them. Who was the other player???
How it unfolded was.
A few moments before that Paul Finlay, the player in question, cleaved Ennis with a shoulder and won the ball off him.
It was fair and square shoulder which was perfectly timed, it wasn't a free and Ennis should hardly have expected to get one.
Ennis was still livid from the that challenge and so when Finlay was tripped and then went to ground, Ennis went in over him and let fly with the punches. Either way it was cowardly stuff to start flaking punches at a man on the ground.
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on June 06, 2008, 01:29:36 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on June 05, 2008, 02:36:11 PM
Presume that is the same BNMM as over here. Firstly the player wasn't lying facing the ground, he landed on his back with the ball clutched to his chest. Nachie was fouled bring the ball forward, lost possession to ur man, obviously felt agrieved at not getting his free and aimed closed fists at the ball Ricky Hatton style. It was a free alright because he didn't use the open hand and yellow was fair enough since he used a flurry of them. Who was the other player???
How it unfolded was.
A few moments before that Paul Finlay, the player in question, cleaved Ennis with a shoulder and won the ball off him.
It was fair and square shoulder which was perfectly timed, it wasn't a free and Ennis should hardly have expected to get one.
Ennis was still livid from the that challenge and so when Finlay was tripped and then went to ground, Ennis went in over him and let fly with the punches. Either way it was cowardly stuff to start flaking punches at a man on the ground.
And before the shoulder he was dragged back by the jersey, struggled to free himself to continue his run forward and was off balance for the shoulder. Finlay landed on his
back, not his front as u suggested (otherwise he would have been done for touching the ball on the ground), Nachie was (rightly) aggrieved at not receiving his free and aimed closed fists at the ball.
He did not "flake punches at a man on the ground" as u have stated as fact.
Now who was the other player who "deserved" red???
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on June 06, 2008, 01:36:20 PM
And before the shoulder he was dragged back by the jersey, struggled to free himself to continue his run forward and was off balance for the shoulder. Finlay landed on his back, not his front as u suggested (otherwise he would have been done for touching the ball on the ground), Nachie was (rightly) aggrieved at not receiving his free and aimed closed fists at the ball. He did not "flake punches at a man on the ground" as u have stated as fact.
Now who was the other player who "deserved" red???
The circumstances leading up to it are inconsequential. If Ennis was aggrieved with not getting a free, then was it random chance that he happened to take this out on the player who cleaned him with the shoulder afterwards?
Not a hope. He got hit bloody hard with a shoulder, he lost the rag and went to avenge it. Simple as.
From a Monaghan fan on another forum:
"Cant believe the Westmeath player that punched Jap 5 or 6 times as he lay on the ground unable to defend himself stayed on the pitch and only got a yellow card."
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on June 06, 2008, 01:53:07 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on June 06, 2008, 01:36:20 PM
And before the shoulder he was dragged back by the jersey, struggled to free himself to continue his run forward and was off balance for the shoulder. Finlay landed on his back, not his front as u suggested (otherwise he would have been done for touching the ball on the ground), Nachie was (rightly) aggrieved at not receiving his free and aimed closed fists at the ball. He did not "flake punches at a man on the ground" as u have stated as fact.
Now who was the other player who "deserved" red???
The circumstances leading up to it are inconsequential. If Ennis was aggrieved with not getting a free, then was it random chance that he happened to take this out on the player who cleaned him with the shoulder afterwards?
Not a hope. He got hit bloody hard with a shoulder, he lost the rag and went to avenge it. Simple as.
From a Monaghan fan on another forum:
"Cant believe the Westmeath player that punched Jap 5 or 6 times as he lay on the ground unable to defend himself stayed on the pitch and only got a yellow card."
Not a chance Ennis deserved a red card for that, got a yellow, which he deserved.
I saw a comment on Hoganstand that the team as named may not necessarily be the one to line-out and think it is a fair enough point. I wouldn't be surprised myself either to see a change or two come throw in tomorrow. I'd definitely expect to see Duffy at some stage, I thought Harte might have been the player to loose out to him in a starting position. O'Flaherta is never afraid to make the changes though, I don't think his aim is always to start with his strongest 15 which isn't entirely senseless.
Can't wait for this one now, should be a very decent crowd. Although it would be a little bit more neutral in somewhere like Croker the atmosphere should be better in a smaller ground like Tullamore.
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on June 06, 2008, 01:53:07 PM
The circumstances leading up to it are inconsequential.
No they're not.
QuoteIf Ennis was aggrieved with not getting a free, then was it random chance that he happened to take this out on the player who cleaned him with the shoulder afterwards?
Not a hope. He got hit bloody hard with a shoulder, he lost the rag and went to avenge it. Simple as.
ffs, he didn't take his aggravation out on the player,
he aimed his closed fists at the ball.
Do u at least accept that the player wasn't lying on his front as you originally posted???
At at the third time of asking who was the other player who "deserved" red???
Picked this up off breaking news, a brief synopsis on the Biffos team:
Quote
Offaly youngster Darby keeps it in the family
06/06/2008 - 11:11:56
Offaly have included one championship debutant in their team for tomorrow evening's Leinster SFC quarter-final against Westmeath (Tullamore, throw-in 6.30pm).
Brian Darby, who plays his club football with Rhode, will make his championship bow at right half-forward, following in the footsteps of his father Stephen and uncle Seamus.
Both Stephen and Seamus Darby were used as substitutes in Offaly's famous 1982 All-Ireland final win over Kerry, with Seamus providing that memorable winning goal.
In two considerable boosts, Offaly manager Pat Roe has been able to name both Paul McConway and Karol Slattery in his side.
McConway had been a doubt after missing a number of training sessions due to a quad muscle injury, but he is expected to start in the half-back line.
Slattery has been surprisingly pencilled in at centre-forward, considering his defensive prowess.
The former county captain will be making his first competitive start of the season after an injury-ravaged few months.
The Offaly midfield and forward lines have a settled look about them with Ciaran McManus, Slattery and Pascal Kelleghan providing a strong spine.
Tomorrow's game is a meeting between the reigning NFL Division 2 champions and this year's Division 4 winners.
With the gap between the sides in the league, Offaly boss Roe conceded that facing Westmeath will be "a big step up" for his players.
"I have absolutely no doubts about the ability of the Offaly players, but we've been operating in Division 4, so there has to be a big step up to survive against a team like Westmeath," he said.
"You can plan all you like for it, but you never know how things turn out until you're in a match situation."
Meanwhile, RTÉ have confirmed that they will show deferred coverage of the Offaly v Westmeath tie after reaching an agreement with the Leinster Council.
The channel originally planned to show the game live, but because of their contractual requirements regarding the Euro 2008 soccer tournament, tomorrow evening's Switzerland v Czech Republic clash will be broadcast live instead.
Deferred coverage of the Leinster semi-final will begin at 9.50pm on RTÉ 2.
OFFALY (SFC v Westmeath) - P Kelly; G Rafferty, S Sullivan, J Keane; P McConway, S Brady, N Grennan; C McManus, A McNamee; B Darby, K Slattery, N Smith; T Deehan, P Kelleghan, N McNamee.
COME ON WESTMEATH!!!!!!!
COME ON OFFALY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My internet connection must be bad cos this is one of the worst matches I have ever seen.
Half time
Westmeath 0-05
Offaly 0-04
only getting a stream off the radio - no tv stream.
are you picking it up shamrock
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on June 07, 2008, 07:17:15 PM
My internet connection must be bad cos this is one of the worst matches I have ever seen.
Half time
Westmeath 0-05
Offaly 0-04
I've forgiven up completely, connection is awful, it either freezes after 30 seconds or I lose it altogether. Not sure why it's so bad.
Quote from: FermPundit on June 07, 2008, 07:24:40 PM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on June 07, 2008, 07:17:15 PM
My internet connection must be bad cos this is one of the worst matches I have ever seen.
Half time
Westmeath 0-05
Offaly 0-04
I've forgiven up completely, connection is awful, it either freezes after 30 seconds or I lose it altogether. Not sure why it's so bad.
same here. few on Betfair are saying the same
Eircom broadband here in Dublin.
Connection is fine but the first half was awful awful stuff.
Flanno off at half time injured so Offaly have a good chance.
Westmeath 1.9, Offaly 1.5
2.9 Westmeath Offaly 1.5, 22 minutes gone.
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on June 07, 2008, 07:31:46 PM
Eircom broadband here in Dublin.
Connection is fine but the first half was awful awful stuff.
Flanno off at half time injured so Offaly have a good chance.
Perfect connnection with NTL in Lucan...Looks like it will be Westmeath in semi final...against Louth ;)
When was the last time Offaly got a new set of jerseys? Them O'Neills they wear are ancient
Westmeath2.11 Offaly 1.8, at full time.
You have to ask whether Tony Davis is right about letting Division 4 teams play in teh championship. Offaly were poor. Very Poor ::)
Is this the Best Offaly can produce? A bloody disgrace. I suppose the qualifers are beneath them. Could use it to improve but i don't think they will. Prefer to live on past glories. Where have the been going for the past 12 Months. Embarrassing!
Just back from O'Connor Park, dont know what to think really. Delighted with the win but Offaly were just clueless.
Awful first half as stated above, but a highly entertaining second 35.
Offaly should have led at half time after completely dominating midfield, Flanagan was poor and it turned out to be a blessing that he got injured. Duffy made a big difference although Niall Smith was still the top performer in the middle.
Glennon had a serious off day, thankfully Dessie was back to his best.
The most pleasing aspect from a Westmeath point of view was the half forward line, Wilson with 1-2 from play, Harte worked tirelessly and Smyth was the best player on the pitch.
Didnt get a great view of the sending off but was suprised to see a red come out. Thought it was a tired tackle rather than an aggressive one, but will hold my judgement until I see it later.
Loads of improvement needed to win semi-final but I can see it happening.
First half was as bad as I've seen. Shocking stuff at times. Can't complain too much though, with a six-point win over those boys that beat the lard out of us for years. A substantial away win in the championship for Westmeath.
Flanagan looks bad though. I didn't like the way he WASN'T limping after half time. Suggests articular rather than muscular. Duffy did make a difference when he came on and thats encouraging for the next time. But no Flanagan.....
Good idea to keep Glennon on for the second half despite him being disappointing in the first. As the Offaly backs tired he made hay .. . . . his confidence was poor and he was reluctant to take responsibility for goal attempts.
Did you ever see a keeper get as many high balls as Connaughton got in the first half? He was fairly reliable under them though. He nearly got caught though by that crazy habit keepers have of Hanging out of the crossbar when they think the ball is going over. The bounce back into play with him acting the mick could have cost us dearly. On the plus side great kick-outs as usual and he made a good effort for the penalty.
DOD was disappointing in the first half and gave away considerable ball.
ALL IN ALL a reasonable performance with some hope against Dublin..... but with no Flanagan........?
Just watched the highlights there on RTE, they didnt show the sending off at all, quite bizarre. Was only mentioned by Lyster in the post match interview with O'Flatherta.
Quote from: shark on June 07, 2008, 10:34:04 PM
Just watched the highlights there on RTE, they didnt show the sending off at all, quite bizarre. Was only mentioned by Lyster in the post match interview with O'Flatherta.
I think they call it a 'score edit'. Bit mad though as it was a pivotal moment
Thank God I'm away to France this week.
Congratulations to Westmeath, they deserved it on the night. Offaly played into their hands completely as the whole sweeper defense stumped them completely. Very disappointed with that, as it was hardly a surprise to anyone there.
Credit to Offaly for winning the amount of ball they did, but after that it was real headless time.
All in all, no complaints from us, better team won. I hope ye go all the way in Leinster now.
Canning did mention it in commentary ion the sense of 'MacManus on the ball for the 14 men' and also to 'Dolan was was involved in that incident' 'not being the most popular man in O'Connor Park. combining those comments with there evidently, to my eye, being space for Westmeath where it hadn't been before, one could work out that there had been a sending off. It was a pivotal moment and should have been shown. No excuse. If TV3 did the GAA and other media would be up in arms. Someone should get fired for it.
Offaly looked unfit, with a limited game plan and isn't it time to move on from MacManus - predictable me feiner
That's unfair on McManus paddypastit. The only reason he might appear to be a mé feiner is that he is the one who steps up constantly. He is quite content to be quiet if Offaly are going well, but he feels the need to carry them when things are going badly. He's not a mé feiner though.
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 07, 2008, 11:14:33 PM
That's unfair on McManus paddypastit. The only reason he might appear to be a mé feiner is that he is the one who steps up constantly. He is quite content to be quiet if Offaly are going well, but he feels the need to carry them when things are going badly. He's not a mé feiner though.
I agree AZ ,the mans passion is awesome . Offaly will just have to keep at it . One thing about Offaly is the attitude over the years to the qualifiers .Kerry ,Galway and other counties just seem to drown their sorrows and get back at it
I've been fairly impressed by Westmeath this year. I'd have them as a strong contender for Leinster now. If they don't make the provincial final, i wouldn't want to be meeting them in round one of the qualifiers.
You're spot on there john about the laissez-faire attitude to the Qualifiers. I think recently, the Offaly lads realistically believe they can have a rattle at Leinster. When they lose, they seem to think 'Well fcuk it, we're definitely not going to win an All Ireland'. It's very shortsighted because a good run can set you up nicely for the next year, especially if you have young players.
I think they realised last year that they missed out by missing the qualifiers, so hopefully they will have a crack at it this year. They have more football than they showed tonight, but it has to be direct football. Offaly never could, never will, and aren't now able to solo the ball or hand pass it in for easy scores. We need to be direct, sharp and clinical. We still kick way too many wides, but even at that, we could have far more chances by being direct. I don't mean hoofs up into the air, but we do need to be quicker in our delivery. Tonight was a case in point, Westmeath simply suffocated us to death because we couldn't deal with their 'sweepers' and pressure defence.
I agree about the direct game .Westmeath are very good at suffocating most teams . I think most teams if they knuckle down and get a good draw can make progress .The benefits may not be seen this year but maybe next year for a team?
I only saw the highlights, but is it fair to say that Westmeath are the most defensive-minded team to ever take to a football field? They seemed to have 2/3's of their team behind the ball whenever Offaly attacked, maybe I'm doing them a dis-service but if they are as negative as they appear I hope they are knocked out sooner rather than later.
Great result for Westmeath.
In saying that though the first half must rank amongst the worst 35 minutes championship football I've seen, I expect empty vessel Spillane and the rest of the gombeen crew will go to town on both of us tomorrow night, that is if they can spare the time after creaming their shorts over Dublin. Both sides could easily have had 4 or 5 more scores a piece, with our neighbours hitting the woodwork twice. I had a feeling that it wasn't going to be Flan's day when he missed the first shot he took. Not many would even try to take a score like that, but he really is a confidence player. Hopefully his injury isn't severe, on his day he is majestic. Glennon seemed to be carrying his right leg a bit, and I wondered was that why he didn't take more chances? Or was it another confidence issue? Either way, as someone mentioned above, it was a good move to keep him on, as he showed he can make a great contribution in general play even when not taking scores himself. Dolan really rolled back the years tonight, not just free taking, but scores off either foot from play and capped it with a goal. Buddha was a bit quiet but worked hard. Wilson should take more confidence from this game, getting back to more like his league form. Smyth and Harte are pure work horses, totally unsung heroes of the side. In the middle we were cleaned out entirely in the first half. Duffy's introduction helped rebalance that, he's looking physically stronger with every game, but in saying that there was no way Offaly played with the same intensity around the middle in the second half, I got the feeling the steam went out of them a little. Smith at 12 for them was very impressive. I also think some of the remarks about McManus were a bit unfair. Our tormentor on many's the day, I think he feels the need to try to push his side on when things go wrong. For instance early-ish in the second half he took a tough shot, similar to Flanagan in the first, which went badly wide. The crowd were getting on to him. But manys the day he's hit a score like that, and fired a comeback. Also despite that miss he didn't shirk his responsibilities later. DO'D had a quiet first half, but I thought a far better second half, doing particularly well taking the ball out of defence. Again our defensive unit did well, particularly the half backs coming forward. Francis Boyle deserves special mention in the full back line, he has been such a find. In any situation where he is the spare defender he does real damage going forward. Again I thought Gavin was too cautious letting McNamee out in front too often in the first half. On the other hand McNamee is a class act so maybe there wasn't an awful lot of letting involved? Keane did well, but again by his own standards I don't think he is at full tilt, or maybe I am being harsh? Connaughton was busy under high balls and wasn't found wanting thankfuly, and even managed to save the penalty...initially.
On the two most contentious issues I'm not to sure. Saw the penalty again there, and I couldn't make up my mind where the foul occurred, and was it indeed a foul or was the attacker clever, felt the pressure and drew it? The ref definitely signaled a free first then a penalty, although maybe that's normal. For the sending off I was surprised to see the red come out. It was definitely high. I think most "bad" tackles i.e. not tackles at all, drew cards in the game, so maybe that was this refs particular thing. Subsequent to the sending off he gave Offaly a lot of the benefit of the doubt, and I'm glad O'Flatherta took Smyth off when he did, just in case another yellow would be flashed in his direction. One small thing that bothered me with the ref was the shoulder charge with the ball - on two occasions he pulled Boyle for it, either side of half time, yet towards the end we lost a few scorable frees for what I felt was basically the player jumping into defenders with the ball. Just a small thing though.
All in all you can't complain though, first time beating our southern neighbours on their own patch in the champo - never thought I'd see the day! As for whether either of us though would have enough for Dublin, if they come past Louth, is still very much in doubt in my mind.
Hope David Bellamy enjoyed the game. Now he can tell everyone at the Peat Conference he's seen all the bog has to offer him!
Quote from: Zulu on June 07, 2008, 11:45:49 PM
I only saw the highlights, but is it fair to say that Westmeath are the most defensive-minded team to ever take to a football field? They seemed to have 2/3's of their team behind the ball whenever Offaly attacked, maybe I'm doing them a dis-service but if they are as negative as they appear I hope they are knocked out sooner rather than later.
I thinka you are doing Westmeath a "dis-seervice" Zulu and I don't know how anybody would draw any conclusions from those highlights. For all the talk to Westmeath blanket defences and 13 men in their own half of the field Offaly were by far the more defensive team throughout the first half with two forwards and everybody else more or less inside their own half defending anyime Westmeath were on the ball.
Quote from: Zulu on June 07, 2008, 11:45:49 PM
I only saw the highlights, but is it fair to say that Westmeath are the most defensive-minded team to ever take to a football field? They seemed to have 2/3's of their team behind the ball whenever Offaly attacked, maybe I'm doing them a dis-service but if they are as negative as they appear I hope they are knocked out sooner rather than later.
What a statement to make. The football played in the second half was some of the best football played in the championship this year.
Quote from: Maroon Heaven on June 08, 2008, 08:39:50 AM
Quote from: Zulu on June 07, 2008, 11:45:49 PM
I only saw the highlights, but is it fair to say that Westmeath are the most defensive-minded team to ever take to a football field? They seemed to have 2/3's of their team behind the ball whenever Offaly attacked, maybe I'm doing them a dis-service but if they are as negative as they appear I hope they are knocked out sooner rather than later.
What a statement to make. The football played in the second half was some of the best football played in the championship this year.
Thats how it seemed to me, they were hugely impressive. Whoever wins today will have a lot to think about.
Quote from: Zulu on June 07, 2008, 11:45:49 PM
I only saw the highlights, but is it fair to say that Westmeath are the most defensive-minded team to ever take to a football field? They seemed to have 2/3's of their team behind the ball whenever Offaly attacked, maybe I'm doing them a dis-service but if they are as negative as they appear I hope they are knocked out sooner rather than later.
I actually thought we were less defensive than against Longford, which was in turn less defensive than the league games, but that could just be my reading.
Its fairly obvious when we line out in the second half there are only two in the full and two in the half forward lines, with the other two remaining half forwards playing on either flank of the midfield. But in the second half yesterday I think he management were forced to commit these two further forward just by the fact that Offaly have good half backs who were snaffling up a lot of ball. Also the two inside forwards stayed in on their lines, forcing their men to stay with them. Often throughout the league, when we were in the ascendency, there would only be one inside forward, Glennon, and the play could be stretched over 40/50 yards. I only recalled that happening once yesterday, and we kind of made a hames of the opportunity.
While WM can be viewed as a defensive team, it's not played with anywhere near the intensity of an Armagh or Tyrone. I see it as making the best of what you've got. The way we play at the moment makes us competitive with those counites about and above our level. The way I see it the team that eventually beats us will not only need good forwards, but also good one on one defenders, as we play off our strengths as a defensive unit and pacy inside forwards. At the moment we don't have good traditional half forwards, so why just play them for the sake of it? It's a pragmatic decision based on the resources available.
I hate the assumption that it's wrong to defend. If we didn't have good defending we wouldn't have good attacking and do people really want football to descend into a Harlem Globetrotters-type exhibition of running, passing and score-taking with defenders discouraged from taking part?
One thing the enemies of the "blanket defence" might consider is that when physical contact is being practically eradicated from the game, virtually the only effective form of defence left is crowding behind the ball to limit the attacking team's options and win possession from breaks. In the days when forwards weren't allowed to run untouched through defences and didn't collapse at the slightest touch, we saw less "defensive" football.
QuoteWhile WM can be viewed as a defensive team, it's not played with anywhere near the intensity of an Armagh or Tyrone. I see it as making the best of what you've got. The way we play at the moment makes us competitive with those counites about and above our level. The way I see it the team that eventually beats us will not only need good forwards, but also good one on one defenders, as we play off our strengths as a defensive unit and pacy inside forwards. At the moment we don't have good traditional half forwards, so why just play them for the sake of it? It's a pragmatic decision based on the resources available.
Simple answer no and certainly not for neutrals like me, however neither Offaly or Longford would be teams about or above your level, in truth they are some way below your level at the moment. So it is fair to say WM will play a particularly defensive brand of football against all opponents and again as a neutral who'll be watching as many games as possible I'd prefer to see overly defensive teams knocked out.
QuoteI hate the assumption that it's wrong to defend. If we didn't have good defending we wouldn't have good attacking and do people really want football to descend into a Harlem Globetrotters-type exhibition of running, passing and score-taking with defenders discouraged from taking part?
Nobody said that Hardy, I like my football hard hitting and physical but people are being turned off football as a spectacle due to this blanket defence malarkey. Do something about the handpass people say but sure why would you kick it forward if it is an almost guaranteed turnover? You might be right about the physicality being taken out of football but I don't think the blanket defence is the only option open to teams, it is the easiest one though.
Tyrone probably came up with this tactic but rather than counteracting it, it seems many teams are just aping it with even greater numbers behind the ball. People give out about top level soccer's defensive nature (Champions league esp.) and the recent rugby WC, but our own game shouldn't be immune to the same critical analysis.
Quote from: Zulu on June 08, 2008, 11:44:05 AM
Simple answer no and certainly not for neutrals like me, however neither Offaly or Longford would be teams about or above your level, in truth they are some way below your level at the moment. So it is fair to say WM will play a particularly defensive brand of football against all opponents and again as a neutral who'll be watching as many games as possible I'd prefer to see overly defensive teams knocked out.
That's your preogative Zulu, but I'd disagree about the difference in standard between ourselves, Longford and Offaly. Other than the traditional rivalry of neighbours, there is a status quo to be maintained - Longford have until recently been comfortable in the fact that they had garnered more major honours than us i.e. 1 :) and from my perspective Offaly are the county whose tradition we'd most like to emulate - small county fighting above their weight in both codes. In those circumstances whatever differences there are kind of go out the window in the championship, especially on their own home patch, and your reduced to dogging it out as best you can with the resources available. I know it didn't show it on the highlights last night, but the Biffos could have drawn or pinched the game, similar with the Longford match. I think our league win has given people outside of the county a false perception of our place in the order of things. We have a decent side, a lot of experience mixed with a little youth, a couple of good forwards and a strong defensive unit, and we play to that. As to whether we can mix it with a Dublin, or a Laois, in the Leinster championship would still be a big question. As to the relative merits of a blanket defence I'll leave it to others. We don't play it with the intensity of our Ulster brethren, and we're not nearly as polished as them. Like I said at the moment we actually don't have good natural half forwards, but we do have a half back line whose instinct is to get forward. As I said previously we are cutting our clothes to suit our cloth. Not everyone in WM appreciates the tactics, but some of us appreciate the fact that at last we at least have some sort of game plan, and I don't hear the locals complaining about the results.
Well said Mentalman.
It's turning into a bit of a cliche now the whole notion of Westmeath being a defensive team. Yesterday's performance was possibly the "least defensive" performance they've produced this year and I don't think it could be classed as overly defensive at all. 2-11 is a good score on any day and is not a score one would expect from a team set up to defend for the 70 minutes.
I think if anybody wants to comment on Westmeath's defending against Offaly they should be advised to watch the game first.
All fair and reasonable points lads and yes I am commenting on a game I didn't see in full but I have watched a few of WM's games this year (both in full and highlights) and they do get plenty of bodies behind the ball. If I was a WM man and we were winning games I'd be ok with it I'd say but I do like to see football played positively and I am concerned at the number of teams that are inviting opponents onto them and then breaking up the field to score. I've no problem with WM in particular, infact I'd love to see them win Leinster again and/or an AI but I am concerned with the direction football is going and it seems that counties like WM, Monaghan, Galway (last year), Cork (last year, not sure about this year), Limerick and a few others are just flooding their backline with more and more bodies and ruining football as a spectacle. And I don't see why some of these counties play in such a fashion, certainly WM with Dolan, Flanagan and Gleenon have 3 good score getters and a good midfield so I think they could outscore most mid ranking teams without resorting to a 4 man forward line with even less most of teh time.
Another couple of things from yesterday just came to me, probably reminded by the dangerous scenes in the Cork Tipp game:
That's the second time I was in the new stand - was there for the Christy Ring semi last year - and it's a beautiful job. Perfect inclination and height difference between the rows means standing up is not required (other than near the presentation area). Compared to the excuse for a stand we have and all the time it took to construct - as one of the lads said behind me yesterday "Sure you'd get wet in it on a fine day!"
KIDS!!!! Hundreds of them at half time on the pitch. I really thought they were going to have bother getting them off the grass, but once the ref blew his whistle they melted away like spring snow in a shower.
Also does anyone know what happened to the Offaly lad brought away by the medics? I was above the tunnel, and he had the full oxygen mask etc. on, seemed to be spark out. Hope he's doing OK. Fair dues to the medical staff, they had an ambulance and him away very quickly. Hate to think what would happen with just such an incident in Mulingar - we've seen over the years they are not the greatest, plus getting in and out of the ground isn't easy.
Quote from: Zulu on June 07, 2008, 11:45:49 PM
I only saw the highlights, but is it fair to say that Westmeath are the most defensive-minded team to ever take to a football field? They seemed to have 2/3's of their team behind the ball whenever Offaly attacked, maybe I'm doing them a dis-service but if they are as negative as they appear I hope they are knocked out sooner rather than later.
Again What a statement to make - If Westmeath were not good at defending surely they would concede a lot of scores?
"If I was a WM man and we were winning games I'd be ok with it I'd say but I do like to see football played positively " - If you are defending a lead and are trying / working hard to get a ball out of defense is this not playing the game positively???
Personally speaking i was happy with WM performance in the second half yesterday - The penalty i felt was a little harsh. I was down that end of the field and the ref definitely signaled a free before the penalty. Looking at it on the highlights last night the offaly player seemed to be barely fouled just outside the square and he fell in. Maybe a clever forward taking advantage of the situation ??? Offalys shooting was also worse than disastrous.
From what i seen of Dublin today i would not be one bit afraid of them in the semi-finals. In the first half Louth had some lovely moves that really exposed the Dublin defense. I hope tómas was keeping a close eye on this game.
QuoteAgain What a statement to make - If Westmeath were not good at defending surely they would concede a lot of scores?
Not sure what point you're trying to make.
Quote"If I was a WM man and we were winning games I'd be ok with it I'd say but I do like to see football played positively " - If you are defending a lead and are trying / working hard to get a ball out of defense is this not playing the game positively???
Getting massive numbers behind the ball isn't overly positive football IMO, in today's game between Tyrone and Down, Tyrone had 14 players in their own half at one stage in the first half and this when they were 5 or 6 points up. It's an unfortunate trend in football that seems to be spreading and WM do it aswell but if it brings ye a Leinster then fair enough.
I thought the first half was terrible stuff. Both sides very nervous, due to the stakes being so high, with numerous blunders, unforced errors and some terrible shooting, especially from Offaly. Things improved considerably in the second half, especially after the sending off. WH had begun to find their rhythm by then anyway and Dolan was beginning to come deep and was running the show. The red card incident took place just beneath where we sat in the stand and my initial reaction was that he was going to walk. It looked very clumsy and a little late, with a large dollop of frustration added. It didn't look any better on TV.
I was impressed by the intelligent running of our forwards at this stage with Willo especially prominent. Our half backs were also much in evidence in the final third with Natchie and Healy covering massive ground. We are quite defensive minded but the pace in our half back line means that we can also attack in waves when the opportunity presents itself. I agree with the poster above who is happy to see us win even if we are not always the most attractive to watch. I remember cavalier football under Luke which got rave reviews in the press and ultimately foundered when we met astute and well drilled opponents.
Tomas obviously had a word with Denis at half time and told him to act a little quicker and it was good to see him heavily involved in both goals. He's better than he displayed on Saturday. His old failing returned when he blasted the ball when one on one rather than placing it in the same fashion as Dessie did.
This was a vintage Dolan show. The two points off either foot early in the second half oozed confidence and technique. The game was finely balanced, others had neither confidence nor ability to take the shot from difficult angles and he just turned up and executed the scores in brilliant style. This was where the game turned. The two frees in the first half were also superb long range efforts.
I thought the crowd got on McManus' back a lot but I suppose this was always going to happen due to his willingness over the years to comment on border relations.
I would be quite optimistic that we can give a good account of ourselves in Croker although a lot will depend on the extent of Flan's injury. Hopefully it's not as bad as initially feared because we will be a difficult team to beat if we have a full hand to play with.
Enjoyable enough evening on Sat even though the ref tried to make a game of it in the second half. I'd be very interested to know what neutrals thought of the "penalty", any foul that did occur looked to be outside the box, thought rte with all their fecking gadgets could have looked at this incident, more on that shower later. Offaly had a couple of interesting warm up ball excerises, thankfully they never employed any of them in the match, first time I've seen push ups en mass before a match, didn't seem to be as effective as the "brawl"...
Game of two halves, both teams were shocking in the first half wheras Westmeath and only a handful of Biffos came out in the second, special mention to Niall Smith, caught some lovely ball. Connaughton did everything asked of him and was unlucky with the penalty, his short kickouts are getting better.
John Keane was back to his best, great to see with the Dubs around the corner. Tomás Deehan didn't get a look in. Gavin only did ok on McNamee, will need a big improvement in 3 weeks as McNamee got away a couple of times for scores and in truth should have had more. Heavin was left as the spare man and cleaned up some amount of ball, was always on hand to help get the ball away but played very high up the pitch I thought. If Offaly had played quick ball in over him we could have been in trouble.
Francis Boyle was everywhere, took a lovely point and is strong in possession, starting to come of age. The twin pincers that are our half backs, Heals and Nachie, covered some amount of ground. Got forward to take up some lovely positions countless times but were never spotted/got the ball in time.
Flan never looked comfortable throughout the first half, hopefully he was carrying an injury and it's not the cruciate that they all suspect, he's getting a scan later today apparently. DO'D suffered under the high ball with Smith more or less cleaning up here but his passing and vision were as good as ever and got forward well to assist in the goal. Duffy restored parity in midfield when he came on and is a tough bit of stuff. Has to start the next day and will put it up to Fennell and/or Whelan, needs to work on his point taking though.
Half forward line or the hard working line as they should be called were everywhere. Great to see Willo get 1-4, he's a confidence player and hopefully he'll have a pep in his step the next day, need to see more from him. Harte and Smyth covered some amount of ground and for the size of them are not afraid to get stuck in, remind me of Peter Stringer. Smyth got some amount of block downs, put his body on the line countless times. Didn't see much if anything from Budda, if Flan makes a miraculous recovery he'll probably be the one to make way.
Glennon was as poor as I've ever seen from him, didn't know what to do with the ball when it came his way, should be having recurring nightmares for a couple of weeks and then takes his frustrations out on McConnell, if he gets the right ball in he can roast him. Dessie was Dessie as we like to remember him, playing inside forward, taking his man on and slotting the ball over. Like JK, great to see him return to his 04 form and hopefully he can build on this now. Hopefully he got to the hotel at a decent hour and didn't take too much attention away from the bride...
From my poor vantage point it didn't seem like a sending off and looking at the replays it seemed slightly harsh but you could see the referees thinking. What I was more disappointed with was the boos Dessie got when he got back to his feet, less said the better.
O'Connor Park looked well in the sunshine on Saturday, new stand is a treat to watch a game from. Didn't realise they were installing a new terrace as well, well done to all concerned.
Absolutely disgusted with rte over the whole weeked. First of all they wouldn't show that match live after they had the game moved to the Saturday which upset a certain wedding which contained a large party of committed Westmeath football fans. Then their peace offering of "delayed coverage" consisted of half an hour of highlights and one interview (while I remember, it was a lovely touch to see O'Flaherta taking the time to greet the Westmeath fans in the background and give a gentle ribbing to the young lad in the Offaly jersey :D, now back to rant). Delayed coverage in any mans language means the full match being replayed. If the Dubs were involved they would even have moved the Angeles if they had to but the lesser lights don't even get lip service. >:( Then to cap it all off, what do we get on The Sunday Game last night but Joanne doing voice over on 2 minute highlights and token discussion. Least Bernard Flynn called it as he saw it and didn't portray the Westmeath very defensive line, came across a lot better than his previous outings elsewhere as well. Still, fcukin raging with rte, least they aren't responsible for our next game anyway...
All in all great to get our first ever championship win over the Biffos in Tullamore, another record consigned to the dustbin. After our mini tour of Leinster we've earned the right to head back to headquarters to take on the Dubs in their own back yard. Onwards and upwards...
(http://www.gaainfo.com/articles/westmeath_are_tops.png)
Up ya boya!
:D I take it Cavan apply through the stone throw rule... :P
That map is not all that accurate. Cavan does border Westmeath, in Finea.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on June 09, 2008, 12:12:13 PM
didn't seem to be as effective as the "brawl"...
"The Brawl" is hilarious, the crowd around me had a good laugh at it, especially when Bannon landed on his arse.
Quote from: Mentalman on June 09, 2008, 04:23:52 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on June 09, 2008, 12:12:13 PM
didn't seem to be as effective as the "brawl"...
"The Brawl" is hilarious, the crowd around me had a good laugh at it, especially when Bannon landed on his arse.
It sure is, it can be to us what the Huddle is to Celtic, it's certainly starting to get the roars from the crowd anyway. The woman saw the teaser on the SG, asked me after what the row was about, took me a while to twig...
Quote from: shark on June 09, 2008, 04:19:35 PM
That map is not all that accurate. Cavan does border Westmeath, in Finea.
And there was me thinking it was to scale ;)
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on June 09, 2008, 04:33:16 PM
The woman saw the teaser on the SG, asked me after what the row was about, took me a while to twig...
:D
(http://www.geocities.com/hardyarse/WH.JPG)
LOL Hardy....but come on - undo Cromwell's good work??????
Only for that the 'Greater' Meath would have no All Irelands cos the lads to the West would have held ye back!
(only messing)
Hardy: damn ya!!!
:)
Good luck in the qualifiers
Surely 24 hours is a new record for one county to hold its breath, would be fantastic if he was fit enough for the bench...
Westmeath relief over Flanagan
09 June 2008
Westmeath fans are breathing a massive sigh of relief after scans revealed that stalwart midfielder Martin Flanagan hasn't suffered a cruciate ligament tear.
According to county board sources, however, the injury could still be serious enough to force him to miss the Lake County's Leinster SFC semi-final against Dublin on June 29.
The Tyrrellspass clubman, who has been Westmeath's outstanding performer this year, was forced to retire at half-time in Saturday's win over Offaly at Tullamore after landing awkwardly as he put in a challenge on Offaly's Thomas Deehan. It was immediately feared that he had ruptured his cruciate ligament - an injury which usually takes up to nine months to recover from and would almost certainly have ended Flanagan's long career in the maroon and white jersey.
But the 32-year-old received good news on Monday and will now endeavour to win the Leinster medal which he missed out on in 2004 when he was controversially omitted from Paidi O Se's squad.
Meanwhile, Westmeath manager Tomas O Flatharta's request to have next weekend's scheduled senior and intermediate football championship games postponed so that his team can prepare for the Dublin game without any distraction has been granted.
Jasus lads, just heard that Offaly lad who was taken away in the ambulance on Saturday died!!! Anyone hear this, find it hard to believe? God bless him and his family if it's true :(
Just remembered this game is being shown in full tonight on Setanta. I hope they do a better job of the full coverage than RTÉ's half hour...