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Depressing Stuff.

Given the enthusiasm of Limavady Grammar's head to become the first NI state school to competively play gaelic games, we can only assume that his praiseworthy efforts have been thwarted by darker forces there.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7401104.stm

School's gaelic plan kicked out 

Plans to introduce gaelic games to Limavady Grammar School have been dropped after objections from teachers and parents, according to the GAA.

Chris Collins from the Derry County Board said he was to meet pupils on Wednesday, but it had been cancelled.

Mr Collins said he was "disappointed that people aren't living in the 21st century and moving forward a wee bit".

However, principal of Limavady Grammar School Sam McGuinness said he would like to see gaelic games at the school.

Assembly member John Dallat said he had met Mr McGuinness twice to discuss the provision of gaelic games at the school.

He said he was "disappointed" the issue had not been resolved, and said he has asked for another meeting.

"I hoped the matter would be dealt with and Limavady Grammar school would meet the sporting and cultural needs of all its pupils," he said.

Quote from: snatter on May 15, 2008, 02:14:28 PMChris Collins from the Derry County Board said he was to meet pupils on Wednesday, but it had been cancelled.

Mr Collins said he was "disappointed that people aren't living in the 21st century and moving forward a wee bit".

Christ that has to be the quote of the year. The GAA asking people to move into the 21st Century.

On the general story unfortunately (for the GAA) it isn't going to happen until the GAA ditch the political shite.

Limavady Grammar is sbout 25-30% Catholic according to a few people I know who went there, so the demand for its provision is going to be there more so than in other post-primary state schools.

SammyG

For Christ sake change the record. The GAA is light years ahead of the flat eathers who have again thwarted the hand of friendship offered by the GAA. It is clear the unionist community has no interest in the most watched sport in the six counties that people pay to watch (bang goes your NW200 argument).      

Lets call a spade a spade sammy. The exclusion of gaelic games from state schools is little englander xenophobia of the worst kind.
Gaelic games are fantastic participant and spectator sports and would enhance any childs sporting experiences. Their continued exclusion betrays the fear a particular section of the community harbours of all things "irish".

Political stuff has no place in the GAA and that needs to be changed.  Hands up, criticism taken.

However, those that don't want GAA sports in their schools are driven (for the most part) by the prejudices outlined on this topic.  Anyone who claims otherwise is blind or disingenuous.

/Jim.

Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on May 15, 2008, 02:36:44 PM
Political stuff has no place in the GAA and that needs to be changed.  Hands up, criticism taken.

However, those that don't want GAA sports in their schools are driven (for the most part) by the prejudices outlined on this topic.  Anyone who claims otherwise is blind or disingenuous.

/Jim.

Sorry to dissapoint all those interested in maintaining the status quo but two weeks ago St Pauls hosted a gaelic games tournament for state schools, I won't name the schools who participated in case Sammy and his mates arrive round with the pitchforks and torches.

As an aside, i can forgive Evil Genius for calling me a liar, but i'm gonna have hunt him down like a dog for introducing disinfuckinggenuous to the vocabulary of this board.

'Political shite'? What a load of crap Sammy. What possible political connotations can there be for a few young lads playing a bit of Gaelic Football?

Unionists are scared of the popularity of the GAA when there is no need to be.

As for the notion that the GAA is not in the 21st Century well that is laughable from you considering you spend most of your time defending OWC/IFA on here when they are stuck in the dark ages in terms of support and infrastructure.

This whole issue is a disgrace... if the kids want to play LET THEM PLAY!

Don't even bother trying to get into it with him, we sepnt a good 30 pages on this previously. Schools football and hurling is under the auspices of Cumann na MBunscoil. In no way do you have bea member of the GAA to participate in football or hurling in school.

Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on May 15, 2008, 02:36:44 PM
Political stuff has no place in the GAA and that needs to be changed.  Hands up, criticism taken.

However, those that don't want GAA sports in their schools are driven (for the most part) by the prejudices outlined on this topic.  Anyone who claims otherwise is blind or disingenuous.

/Jim.

I think that is a fair comment. From my observation, there are people within the GAA who are unbendingly attached to the political side of the organisation etc, when that should no longer have any place in a sporting organisation in this day and age (imo). Similarly, there are people within the non-GAA (effectively Unionist) community who will always distrust and dislike the GAA regardless. Each provides fuel for the other's prejudices.

However, I personally suspect that each faction is a minority within its community.

How to end this stand-off? I accept it can never be for outsiders such as myself to tell the GAA what they should or shouldn't do, including removing the politics. But by the same principle, unless or until the silent majority within the GAA decides for itself that it would be better off doing so, then the silent majority within the Unionist community, who sincerely believe that politics ought to have no place within sport, will have no effective answer to Unionist extremists who look for a stick - any stick - with which to beat the GAA.

In the end, if the GAA were to remove the politics, then I believe every Unionist should welcome the extension of Gaelic games to all schools. As it is, I have no great objection where it does happen, since anything that gets kids out running around in the fresh air has got to be a good thing. However, I could not campaign for it.

As I've said many times before, in the end the GAA must decide which it wants more: its Nationalist political ethos, or the willing support of one million non-Nationalist Irish people.

Over to you, Mr. Brennan.

am from limavady, were the school thats in question is involved, our club has been fighting for years for gaelic to be played in this school, we were told on Sunday Evening that there would be a gaa training nite on Weds nite by derry development officer Chris Colliins, called off at the last minute due to teachers opposing it, even though the princpal has stated that the training session was not supposed to happen!!!
biggots

Its ridiculous. Nothing short of biggotry in its purest form. Ive family at the school and my wee cousin is playing rugby. Thinks its a great opportunity for him (did Drumsurn and Ulsters Niall O'Connor not come through the Grammar). There should therefore be the opportunity for those who wish to play gaelic, regarless of colour or creed. Chances are there could be some great finds. Potential rugger buggers being good at the oul GA! A school like Limavady Grammar should be looking to set a good example. ???

EG - list me the political issues attached to the GAA as you perceive them and we'll see where we can go.

I do not want to cloud the naked bigotry perpetuated by the educators amongst the unionist community in entering into this discussion.

I am disgusted by this attitude and astonished that unionist leaders are prepared to accept these actions in their name

Quote from: Uladh on May 15, 2008, 03:38:04 PM

EG - list me the political issues attached to the GAA as you perceive them and we'll see where we can go.

Uladh,
I genuinely don't wish to see this thread dragged way off topic to the usual "Yah Boo Sucks" level. I have previously listed at length (ad nauseum?  :D) my views on the political ethos of the GAA, so if you can bear to do a search under my name(!), you'll find plenty. Off the top of my head, you could save time by searching the thread I started entitled  "After the Darren Graham Affair is Settled", or there was a thread started last year (can't remember exact title) following Nicky Brennan's article in the C of I Gazette, where he had wondered whether the GAA shouldn't be setting up "Protestant GAA Clubs".

I dont see why the GAA even bother?
why should they bend over backwards just to let bigots play?
I have no problems with any other religions playing the sport, but why should they be made change the way things are?
i also read recently that unionists called for the national anthem to stop being played at GAA games?
are they having a laugh?

I'd actually like to see a debate on this, on national TV, like Q&A, where we can get both sides to sit down. People like the teachers and parents in this case, Unionist party members, GAA representitives like people on the Ulster council, Nicky Brennan, Cumann na mBunscoil, Education ministers.

Get them to sit down and really talk about this case. It really needs to be addressed, we've had this debate a million times on here, but I dont recall much ever happening by the heads of the GAA or by anyone for that matter. No one has tackled the issue head on, people have just danced around it and used it as a political football when they needed it.

Its time to start visibly doing something rather than making the usual noises and doing nothing!

Quote from: thejuice on May 15, 2008, 03:48:42 PM
I'd actually like to see a debate on this, on national TV, like Q&A, where we can get both sides to sit down. People like the teachers and parents in this case, Unionist party members, GAA representitives like people on the Ulster council, Nicky Brennan, Cumann na mBunscoil, Education ministers.

Get them to sit down and really talk about this case. It really needs to be addressed, we've had this debate a million times on here, but I dont recall much ever happening by the heads of the GAA or by anyone for that matter. No one has tackled the issue head, people have just danced around it and used it as a political football when they needed it.

Its time to start visibly doing something rather than making the usual noises and doing nothing!

Good call, would certainly be an interesting debate.

Quote from: tyrone exile on May 15, 2008, 03:48:13 PM
I dont see why the GAA even bother?

Then why complain so loudly about lack of access, if it's all too much "bother"?

Quote from: tyrone exile on May 15, 2008, 03:48:13 PM
why should they bend over backwards just to let bigots play?

Actually, the "bigots" are never going to play. Rather, might you not consider "bending over" even a little way, to accommodate those more enlightened individuals like the Headmaster in question, who clearly does wish to see Gaelic games in his school? Or is it only he who must bend?

Quote from: tyrone exile on May 15, 2008, 03:48:13 PM
I have no problems with any other religions playing the sport,

It is not a question of religion, but politics. The GAA has a clearly partisan political ethos to it. Many Irish people have a problem with that.

Quote from: tyrone exile on May 15, 2008, 03:48:13 PM
why should they be made change the way things are?

Organisations normally change because they see a benefit in doing so. Imo, if the GAA were to change (remove) its political ethos and become purely a sporting and cultural organisation, it would benefitfrom the participation of a community of 1m Irish people who currently don't have anything really to do with the organisation.

Quote from: tyrone exile on May 15, 2008, 03:48:13 PM
i also read recently that unionists called for the national anthem to stop being played at GAA games?
are they having a laugh?

Like it or not, there are two National Anthems on this island. Now I personally don't feel it for non-GAA heads to tell the GAA what to do. However, so long as the GAA accords a special place to "The Soldiers Song", and none to GSTQ, then many people who consider the latter to be their anthem are liable to have ambivalent or troubled feelings towards the GAA. (Not that I think that the Anthem is a huge or insurmountable problem myself, btw)

Quote from: tyrone exile on May 15, 2008, 03:48:13 PM
I dont see why the GAA even bother?
why should they bend over backwards just to let bigots play?
I have no problems with any other religions playing the sport, but why should they be made change the way things are?
i also read recently that unionists called for the national anthem to stop being played at GAA games?
are they having a laugh?

Which is exactly the point Sammy is making.

If the GAA want to remain a culturally nationalist organisation that happens to play sport, fine. But the unionist community will remain alienated and the GAA will remain outside the state school system, as like it or not the ethos of the organisation is in conflict with the 6 county statelet.

What is more important to members in the north. The games and spreading them to new players or remaining the sporting wing of the independence movement?

I know most will go for the latter, so stop complaining when the Unionists don't want to join in on those terms. And that includes 'their' schools, for right or wrong.

EG - reading those threads ain't my idea of a good time.

from the other side of the fence i can assume the following issues:

national anthem - i've no problem scrapping it
ground and club names - might take a bit of time to get through but agian, i'd have no problem renaming grounds and clubs which may be seen as offensive.

what have i missed?

Quote from: Uladh on May 15, 2008, 04:41:22 PMnational anthem - i've no problem scrapping it
ground and club names - might take a bit of time to get through but agian, i'd have no problem renaming grounds and clubs which may be seen as offensive.

what have i missed?

You've missed the main one, the basic aim of the GAA from the first page of the guide, namely the promotion of a 32 county Ireland. Plus a few smaller ones, like hunger strike memorials, clubs being used for political fund raising etc.

What have the GAA to do with hunger strike memorials?

individual premises the length and breadth of this and every country hold functions for all sorts of organisations on an ad hoc basis. nothing to do with gaa rules or ethos.

if the guide aspires to that then i'd have no problem amending it as with the national constitution. however, it will always be a 32 county organisation, like some political parties and every business on the island.

the fact that most members don't even know this is testament to how irrelevent it is to the actual playing of our games

Quote from: Uladh on May 15, 2008, 05:00:30 PM

What have the GAA to do with hunger strike memorials?

individual premises the length and breadth of this and every country hold functions for all sorts of organisations on an ad hoc basis. nothing to do with gaa rules or ethos.

if the guide aspires to that then i'd have no problem amending it as with the national constitution. however, it will always be a 32 county organisation, like some political parties and every business on the island.

the fact that most members don't even know this is testament to how irrelevent it is to the actual playing of our games

Hold on, you are trying to have it both ways here. The GAA centrally has power over what happens in club grounds, for example Rule 42 prohibits individual clubs renting their facilities to soccer or rugby and of course controls the purse strings. But then you claim the GAA has no control over what happens in these grounds when it comes to memorials or naming the places.

If the GAA wanted grounds neutral, they could enforce it with ease.

Quote from: Uladh on May 15, 2008, 05:00:30 PM

What have the GAA to do with hunger strike memorials?

Casement Park (which was owned by the GAA the last time I checked) has been used for Hunger Strike memorials as have several club grounds.

Quote from: Uladh on May 15, 2008, 05:00:30 PM
individual premises the length and breadth of this and every country hold functions for all sorts of organisations on an ad hoc basis. nothing to do with gaa rules or ethos.

I thought the premises were all owned/controlled by the GAA. If they can stop a local soccer or rugby team using the ground surely they could also stop them being used for political purposes.

Quote from: Uladh on May 15, 2008, 05:00:30 PM
if the guide aspires to that then i'd have no problem amending it as with the national constitution. however, it will always be a 32 county organisation, like some political parties and every business on the island.

No problem with that at all.

Quote from: Uladh on May 15, 2008, 05:00:30 PM
the fact that most members don't even know this is testament to how irrelevent it is to the actual playing of our games

Indeed but we're constantly being told that the GAA is democratic and acts in the best interest of it's members etc so if nobody gives a flying one about the political stuff, then it should be easy to get rid of it.

Quote from: SammyG on May 15, 2008, 04:47:59 PM

Quote from: Uladh on May 15, 2008, 04:41:22 PMnational anthem - i've no problem scrapping it
ground and club names - might take a bit of time to get through but agian, i'd have no problem renaming grounds and clubs which may be seen as offensive.

what have i missed?

You've missed the main one, the basic aim of the GAA from the first page of the guide, namely the promotion of a 32 county Ireland.

Would you hold a dislike to Discover Ireland for the same reason?  ::)

Some people need to realise there is no ocean between the north and south of ireland.

Quote from: fred the red on May 15, 2008, 06:09:31 PM

Quote from: SammyG on May 15, 2008, 04:47:59 PM

Quote from: Uladh on May 15, 2008, 04:41:22 PMnational anthem - i've no problem scrapping it
ground and club names - might take a bit of time to get through but agian, i'd have no problem renaming grounds and clubs which may be seen as offensive.

what have i missed?

You've missed the main one, the basic aim of the GAA from the first page of the guide, namely the promotion of a 32 county Ireland.

Would you hold a dislike to Discover Ireland for the same reason?  ::)

When the GAA refers to the promotion of "a 32 county Ireland", they do so in a political sense, whereas when Discover Ireland does so, it does it in a geographical/tourist sense.

Quote from: fred the red on May 15, 2008, 06:09:31 PM
Some people need to realise there is no ocean between the north and south of ireland.

At the same time as they might recognise that there is a border between the north* and south of Ireland...


* - If the good people of Donegal will indulge me for the sake of my argument  ;)

Quote from: Evil Genius on May 15, 2008, 06:19:46 PM

Quote from: fred the red on May 15, 2008, 06:09:31 PM

Quote from: SammyG on May 15, 2008, 04:47:59 PM

Quote from: Uladh on May 15, 2008, 04:41:22 PMnational anthem - i've no problem scrapping it
ground and club names - might take a bit of time to get through but agian, i'd have no problem renaming grounds and clubs which may be seen as offensive.

what have i missed?

You've missed the main one, the basic aim of the GAA from the first page of the guide, namely the promotion of a 32 county Ireland.

Would you hold a dislike to Discover Ireland for the same reason?  ::)

When the GAA refers to the promotion of "a 32 county Ireland", they do so in a political sense, whereas when Discover Ireland does so, it does it in a geographical/tourist sense.

Quote from: fred the red on May 15, 2008, 06:09:31 PM
Some people need to realise there is no ocean between the north and south of ireland.

At the same time as they might recognise that there is a border between the north* and south of Ireland...


* - If the good people of Donegal will indulge me for the sake of my argument  ;)

Why did you feel the need to answer the question on Sammy's behalf?

He's a big boy you know  :-*

QuoteAt the same time as they might recognise that there is a border between the north* and south of Ireland...

I presume they do. However they operate in the same way North and South, why should a sport be partitioned, better to keep politics out of it.

Quote from: fred the red on May 15, 2008, 06:09:31 PM

Quote from: SammyG on May 15, 2008, 04:47:59 PM

Quote from: Uladh on May 15, 2008, 04:41:22 PMnational anthem - i've no problem scrapping it
ground and club names - might take a bit of time to get through but agian, i'd have no problem renaming grounds and clubs which may be seen as offensive.

what have i missed?

You've missed the main one, the basic aim of the GAA from the first page of the guide, namely the promotion of a 32 county Ireland.

Would you hold a dislike to Discover Ireland for the same reason?  ::)

If Discover Ireland had rules about supporting a United Ireland or started raising funds for political/paramilitary groups then yes I'd have a problem with them. Until that time then I'm happy to let them get on with doing a reasonably good job.

Quote from: fred the red on May 15, 2008, 06:09:31 PM

Some people need to realise there is no ocean between the north and south of ireland.

Fairly sure that everybody knows that, or if not they should get a map.

(http://images.ireland.com/ancestors/ireland-map.gif)



There you go Sammy, print that out and stick it on your bedroom wall.

See if you can recall all 32 counties this time next week from memory  :-*

I doubt it would get much chance in my old school (Foyle) either - even though itd be 40% catholic i reckon.
We were not even allowed a football team - rugby/cricket only >:(

Feck sake, Paddy Walsh had no time for gealic games either when he headed up St. Malachy's, starting a decline that has lasted many, many years. We should look at the attitude in some of our own schools !

Obviously I didn't learn how to spell gaelic during my time there.

I went to SPCA in Armagh early 80s, we had 5 lads in our year who had all played for the primary schools squad in Northern Ireland for soccer, we knew full well we had the beatings of any other school, but yet when we asked for a soccer team we were told "when armagh royal lines a team out in the Macrory cup ye can have a soccer team" also suspensions were handed out for playing soccer.

Still a bag of shite if you ask me, if the kids want to play any sport why should some twat have the power to block them because of his political view point?

The issue here is that there is demand among the kids for the games, the intake of the school would be about 60 percent Protestant and 40 per cent Catholic. The kids want the opportunity to play the games, there was to be a blitz between LGS and Rainey Endowed before the end of the school term. From what I understand there has been absolutely no adverse reaction to the introduction of the sport at Rainey. In the 1980s I attended LGS and it always bridled with me that despite an obvious appetite among the pupils including some from non GAA backgrounds that any attempts to introduce Gaelic games was quashed. More recently (five years ago) a pupil at the school compiled a petition of pupils and parents who wished to see the games introduced but he was threatened with expulsion if he persisted so nothing came of it. The clubs in the area have been very sensitive in dealing with this matter and the session that was due to take place this week was the result of lengthy negotiation going back some four years, there was to be no great fanfare about it nobody wanted to make a big deal of it. However, after veiled threats of resignation by two members of staff the principal caved and cancelled the session with Chris Collins. As far as the local clubs have concerned there has been a show of bad faith by the school in reneging on the arrangement

Quote from: SammyG on May 15, 2008, 06:42:13 PM
If Discover Ireland had rules about supporting a United Ireland or started raising funds for political/paramilitary groups then yes I'd have a problem with them. Until that time then I'm happy to let them get on with doing a reasonably good job.

Listen,

I have accepted and discussed your thoughts on the GAA time on time.  I can accept criticism of the organisation and I can even understand the pedantic intepretation you have of the rules about "National Identity".  However the GAA has not ever raised funds for political/paramilitary groups of any description.  That is an appalling comment.  It's the kind of shíte that has cost innocent GAA members their lives.  Shame!.

That kind of comment might go down well with in the OWC domain but they are a gross and highly dangerous over-statement of the issue.

/Jim.

Well said, Jim. That was overstepping the line.

By the way, the GAA doesn't have any rules about supporting a United Ireland either.

Quote from: Hardy on May 16, 2008, 12:01:05 PM
Well said, Jim. That was overstepping the line.

By the way, the GAA doesn't have any rules about supporting a United Ireland either.

Hardy,

I don't believe it does either but I acknowledged his take on that rule as I don't want to allow a digression into that discussion.  It is the suggestion made above that is offensive.  On rules though I believe that that post is in contravention of Rule 4 and 8 of this forum.  I will leave it to the mods to decide that.

/Jim.

I agree that kids should have a choice, but I doubt many of the schools who have a hard on for rugby will go for it - political reasons or not.

As i said we where not allowed a football team, and where only allowed to play football for games if we were not involved with the rugby team from 5th year, and even then it was begrudged.

I Im pretty sure the likes of Keith Gillespie got a lot of hassle from school (bangor grammar) for playing football outside of school rather than rugby for the school.

A begrudging, ignored, unsupported and unfunded rabble of 15 threw together is all we ask from any of these schools.

from there i'm confident that the participant enjoyment which comes with gaelic football will garner enough toe dipping and interest for it to strengthen conseiderably in every school.

the gaa will do the rest with coaching and support. wait til they see how willing the gaa will be to throw grants at them!

Uladh - we had many many interested in football at our school - every lunchtime it was all that was played (on the tarmac - not allowed to play it on the rugby pitches).
The school would not countanance it - the impact on the rugby team would be the loss of at least some of the better players, more than likely a lot. so we didnt get a begrudging, ignored, unsupported and unfunded rabble, even though we would certainly have had a lot more than 15 interested.

Quote from: nifan on May 16, 2008, 12:07:29 PM
I agree that kids should have a choice, but I doubt many of the schools who have a hard on for rugby will go for it - political reasons or not.
As i said we where not allowed a football team, and where only allowed to play football for games if we were not involved with the rugby team from 5th year, and even then it was begrudged.
I Im pretty sure the likes of Keith Gillespie got a lot of hassle from school (bangor grammar) for playing football outside of school rather than rugby for the school.

That Grammer school system looks poisoned to me.
Looks to be based on a snobby British model.
That has no place in education and has no place in NI life.

These sports activities are extra curricular yet the Limavady GAA invitation was allegedly stopped because of the protest/blackmail of some parents/staff.
The Limavady principal has refused to explain his decision.
He will have to meet with outraged parents and the local politicans will be banging on his door.

Rugby playing schools are a form a social snobbery, rather than sectarianism as is the case here. While the kids would rather play soccer in the yard, their parents might actually prefer that they hang out the with "right sort of people" in the rugby crowd.

However places like Blackrock college now have a variety of sports and not just rugby.

Quote from: SammyG on May 15, 2008, 06:42:13 PM
If Discover Ireland had rules about supporting a United Ireland or started raising funds for political/paramilitary groups then yes I'd have a problem with them.

no intentions of getting into this whole debate but this comment gave me a bit of a shock.
Is this a serious suggestion that the GAA are raising funds for political / parimilitary groups?

Can you explain please Sammy? Perhaps I took it up wrong but it really needs clarifying.

Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on May 16, 2008, 11:52:44 AM

Quote from: SammyG on May 15, 2008, 06:42:13 PM
If Discover Ireland had rules about supporting a United Ireland or started raising funds for political/paramilitary groups then yes I'd have a problem with them. Until that time then I'm happy to let them get on with doing a reasonably good job.

Listen,

I have accepted and discussed your thoughts on the GAA time on time.  I can accept criticism of the organisation and I can even understand the pedantic intepretation you have of the rules about "National Identity".  However the GAA has not ever raised funds for political/paramilitary groups of any description.  That is an appalling comment.  It's the kind of shíte that has cost innocent GAA members their lives.  Shame!.

That kind of comment might go down well with in the OWC domain but they are a gross and highly dangerous over-statement of the issue.

/Jim.

You might not like it Jim but you can't deny that it goes on.

Try http://www.anphoblacht.com/events/2007-11-15 (http://www.anphoblacht.com/events/2007-11-15)

or http://www.anphoblacht.com/events/2007-10-18 (http://www.anphoblacht.com/events/2007-10-18)

Or just google An Phoblacht GAA and Fund and you'll find loads.

Quote from: his holiness nb on May 16, 2008, 01:32:39 PM

Quote from: SammyG on May 15, 2008, 06:42:13 PM
If Discover Ireland had rules about supporting a United Ireland or started raising funds for political/paramilitary groups then yes I'd have a problem with them.

no intentions of getting into this whole debate but this comment gave me a bit of a shock.
Is this a serious suggestion that the GAA are raising funds for political / parimilitary groups?

Can you explain please Sammy? Perhaps I took it up wrong but it really needs clarifying.

See reply to Jim

Cant open the links Sammy. Whats in them?

Quote from: his holiness nb on May 16, 2008, 01:39:02 PM
Cant open the links Sammy. Whats in them?

"FUNCTION: Cork Republican Commemoration Committee, Christmas Fundraiser, featuring The Irish Brigade & Spirit of Freedom,Saturday 15th December 8pm at St.Finbarr's GAA club Togher Cork City, Táille €10."


and

"TERENCE MacSWINEY WEEKEND: 2.30-5pm Saturday 27 October, Ballyphehane Community Centre: 'Revolutionary Politics in Ireland: 1920 and today'. Contributions from Martin Ferris TD, Cllr. David Cullinane and Paul O'Connor, followed by open discussion. 8pm Blackrock GAA club 'A festival of Ballads' featuring The Irish Brigade, The Spirit of Freedom, Shebeen's Alan Quinn and Padraig Mór (ex Shebeen) Táille €10, tickets available from the Sinn Féin office 136 Barrack st Cork tel 021-4311389. 11am Sunday 28 October,  Historical Walk Through Rebel Cork. Guided tour of places in Cork City centre associated with people and events of the Tan war. Assemble at the Sinn Féin 136 Barrack St. 2.30pm: Annual Terence MacSwiney Commemoration, assemble at Ballyphehane Community Centre. March to the Republican Plot, St.Finbarr's cemetery, music and refreshments afterwards at Tom Lynch's bar Barrack St."

Just the first couple of random examples, if you google you'll find dozens.

So when the GAA clubs hire out function rooms to legitimate political parties they are raising money for paramilitaries-what they are doing is no worse than making a few bob. I await Sammy and his mates to also include the Hastings Hotel Group (hiring of function rooms in Europa to SF)  and Belfast City council (hire of Ulster hall to SF) be be branded paramilitary fundraisers. What was the excuse you used when UVF/LVF kicked a man to death outside Tobermore FC-not the IFA's fault as they did no remit over what happened in the club. Away and wind your neck in you p***k-attitudes like yours led to the death of good men Sean Browne to be killed and Gavin Brett to be killed. 

Quote from: SammyG on May 16, 2008, 01:37:12 PM

Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on May 16, 2008, 11:52:44 AM

Quote from: SammyG on May 15, 2008, 06:42:13 PM
If Discover Ireland had rules about supporting a United Ireland or started raising funds for political/paramilitary groups then yes I'd have a problem with them. Until that time then I'm happy to let them get on with doing a reasonably good job.

Listen,

I have accepted and discussed your thoughts on the GAA time on time.  I can accept criticism of the organisation and I can even understand the pedantic intepretation you have of the rules about "National Identity".  However the GAA has not ever raised funds for political/paramilitary groups of any description.  That is an appalling comment.  It's the kind of shíte that has cost innocent GAA members their lives.  Shame!.

That kind of comment might go down well with in the OWC domain but they are a gross and highly dangerous over-statement of the issue.

/Jim.

You might not like it Jim but you can't deny that it goes on.

Try http://www.anphoblacht.com/events/2007-11-15 (http://www.anphoblacht.com/events/2007-11-15)

or http://www.anphoblacht.com/events/2007-10-18 (http://www.anphoblacht.com/events/2007-10-18)

Or just google An Phoblacht GAA and Fund and you'll find loads.

Sammy,
To be strictly accurate, I don't think this is a case of the GAA per se raising funds for paramilitaries etc, more a case of them allowing their premises to be used by such organisations (or their "political representatives"  :o) to raise funds.
Not, of course, that this semantic distinction makes a great deal of difference when placed in the context e.g. of Tyone GAA refusing permission for an Omagh bomb victims fundraiser at Healy Park, on the basis that such an event contravened the GAA's rules on being identified with "poilitical" events, so that the organisers had instead to use the much smaller St.Julian's Road (Omagh Town FC), thereby greatly reducing the amount raised.  >:(

Whatever the anti-GAA bigotry employed by some of those who would oppose Gaelic games in NI State schools (and it certainly exists), unless or until the GAA addresses such iniquitous, indeed hypocritical practices, it is not going to enlist the sympathy of "ordinary" Unionist parents/teachers etc in NI, whose co-operation and support will be vital if the GAA is ever to succeed in expanding its reach beyond its traditional constituency.

As I said earlier, it's over to you, Mr. Brennan.

Quote from: SammyG on May 16, 2008, 01:37:12 PM
[You might not like it Jim but you can't deny that it goes on.

Try http://www.anphoblacht.com/events/2007-11-15 (http://www.anphoblacht.com/events/2007-11-15)

or http://www.anphoblacht.com/events/2007-10-18 (http://www.anphoblacht.com/events/2007-10-18)

Or just google An Phoblacht GAA and Fund and you'll find loads.

Actually I don't like what goes on.  But what is going on is that individual GAA clubs are renting out their premises to events I don't like.

The GAA is not (and never has) "started raising funds for political/paramilitary groups".

Before you start making leaps of understanding or throwing wild accusations about you should do a more comprehensive research to understand the issues.  

For example in my parish I am a member of the GAA and also on the hall committee.  The hall committee has more non-GAA members than GAA members.  Although the GAA owns the hall they are happy to leave it as a resource to the community (which no doubt St. Finbarrs are too).   That means that local political, community and sporting groups use the hall.   That's life.  

Either way this is all a far cry from what you said.   I find it incredulous that you don't realise this given the pedantic treatment you have given other statements.

/Jim.

With respect Sammy, they are NOT raising any monies for these organisations.
The two organisations you mentioned are not the GAA.
The GAA clubs rented their premises out to the organisations, so if anything they are taking money from them  ;)

Your suggestion that the GAA raised funds for these organisations is a disgraceful lie. You know this.
You never cease to amaze me with your vain attempts to blacken the name of the GAA.

Oh and you did say the GAA was a racist organisation, crystal clear on OWC.
Deny it and its another lie.
And dont even bother asking for me to go over there to dig out quotes, I remember it very well, that sort of comment sticks in the memory.

Quote from: Evil Genius on May 16, 2008, 01:55:34 PM


Not, of course, that this semantic distinction makes a great deal of difference when placed in the context e.g. of Tyone GAA refusing permission for an Omagh bomb victims fundraiser at Healy Park, on the basis that such an event contravened the GAA's rules on being identified with "poilitical" events, so that the organisers had instead to use the much smaller St.Julian's Road (Omagh Town FC), thereby greatly reducing the amount raised.  >:(

Wrong. It was because of (the old) Rule 42, there was nothing political about it. Indeed, despite the alteration of Rule 42 to allow Soccer and Rugby in Croker you still aren't allowed to play non GAA sport in any GAA grounds bar Croke Park

What constitutes a paramilitary organisation now anyway? are sinn fein one such organisation? I thought big ian and peter were happy that the IRA are no longer operating?

Quote from: tyrone86 on May 16, 2008, 02:24:51 PM

Quote from: Evil Genius on May 16, 2008, 01:55:34 PM


Not, of course, that this semantic distinction makes a great deal of difference when placed in the context e.g. of Tyone GAA refusing permission for an Omagh bomb victims fundraiser at Healy Park, on the basis that such an event contravened the GAA's rules on being identified with "poilitical" events, so that the organisers had instead to use the much smaller St.Julian's Road (Omagh Town FC), thereby greatly reducing the amount raised.  >:(

Wrong. It was because of (the old) Rule 42, there was nothing political about it. Indeed, despite the alteration of Rule 42 to allow Soccer and Rugby in Croker you still aren't allowed to play non GAA sport in any GAA grounds bar Croke Park

You're quite correct about Rule 42 - my error. Nonetheless, I think it outrageous that GAA premises can be denied to an organisation which wants to stage a sports event to raise funds for entirely innocent victims of paramilitarism, some of them probably GAA fans themselves, whilst such premises are able to be rented by organisations which are "closely associated", shall we say, with the same (or similar) paramilitary organisations.

P.S. If we are going to be "picky", it is not "non GAA sport" per se which is banned, otherwise we would not have had e.g. American Football or Boxing allowed to be staged at GAA Grounds down the years.

Quote from: Evil Genius on May 16, 2008, 02:38:26 PM

Quote from: tyrone86 on May 16, 2008, 02:24:51 PM

Quote from: Evil Genius on May 16, 2008, 01:55:34 PM


Not, of course, that this semantic distinction makes a great deal of difference when placed in the context e.g. of Tyone GAA refusing permission for an Omagh bomb victims fundraiser at Healy Park, on the basis that such an event contravened the GAA's rules on being identified with "poilitical" events, so that the organisers had instead to use the much smaller St.Julian's Road (Omagh Town FC), thereby greatly reducing the amount raised.  >:(

Wrong. It was because of (the old) Rule 42, there was nothing political about it. Indeed, despite the alteration of Rule 42 to allow Soccer and Rugby in Croker you still aren't allowed to play non GAA sport in any GAA grounds bar Croke Park

You're quite correct about Rule 42 - my error. Nonetheless, I think it outrageous that GAA premises can be denied to an organisation which wants to stage a sports event to raise funds for entirely innocent victims of paramilitarism, some of them probably GAA fans themselves, whilst such premises are able to be rented by organisations which are "closely associated", shall we say, with the same (or similar) paramilitary organisations.

P.S. If we are going to be "picky", it is not "non GAA sport" per se which is banned, otherwise we would not have had e.g. American Football or Boxing allowed to be staged at GAA Grounds down the years.

While Rule 42 is not without it's merits in some situations, as a whole issues like the above show the fallacy of it.  It was disgraceful (and odd) that it was invoked in regard to the Healy Park incident.  I also find it strange as proceeds from the first Clare/Offaly replay in 1998 (over 1 million sterling) was donated by the GAA to the Omagh fund.

Either way I stand over the offensiveness and inaccuracy of SammyG's comment.

/Jim.

Quote from: SammyG on May 16, 2008, 01:45:05 PM
"FUNCTION: Cork Republican Commemoration Committee, Christmas Fundraiser, featuring The Irish Brigade & Spirit of Freedom,Saturday 15th December 8pm at St.Finbarr's GAA club Togher Cork City, Táille €10."


and

"TERENCE MacSWINEY WEEKEND: 2.30-5pm Saturday 27 October, Ballyphehane Community Centre: 'Revolutionary Politics in Ireland: 1920 and today'. Contributions from Martin Ferris TD, Cllr. David Cullinane and Paul O'Connor, followed by open discussion. 8pm Blackrock GAA club 'A festival of Ballads' featuring The Irish Brigade, The Spirit of Freedom, Shebeen's Alan Quinn and Padraig Mór (ex Shebeen) Táille €10, tickets available from the Sinn Féin office 136 Barrack st Cork tel 021-4311389. 11am Sunday 28 October,  Historical Walk Through Rebel Cork. Guided tour of places in Cork City centre associated with people and events of the Tan war. Assemble at the Sinn Féin 136 Barrack St. 2.30pm: Annual Terence MacSwiney Commemoration, assemble at Ballyphehane Community Centre. March to the Republican Plot, St.Finbarr's cemetery, music and refreshments afterwards at Tom Lynch's bar Barrack St."

???
What is the problem with this event hiring out the rooms of the GAA?

The Republican Commemoration Committee is part and parcel of Irish life and history.
Republican dead have been honoured and will continue to be honoured by all strata of Irish life, politics and society.

But I can understand how the likes of  DUP bigot who has a hatred of Irish culture would just see a reflection of their own bile.  

I can't find any links but I am convinced that the GAA contributed the most money to the Omagh bomb fund. Unlike Omagh Town FC who if memory serves me correctly where investigated about missing funds. 

Can I just say that the unionist people have always been involved in the GAA, protestant persuasion as well, I know this for a fact because I am from a protestant family absolutely steeped in the GAA.  I have never suffered from political or sectarian overtones within the GAA.  Ill call it as I see it,  There are those who want the GAA to change to suit their thing, the GAA is uniquely Irish and is its own thing.  
Nothing is neutral any more - no more so than Windsor Park on a big match night, which I love and attend in equal; measure, and I know its not neutral.  England at Wembley is a bastion of nationalist  fervour,  Even football clubs like Man U and Liverpool would half kill each other for no obvious reason but their locality but they are not neutral.  So what are we the unionist community asking the GAA as a whole organisation to do - abandon the very principles that have made them great.  Im not part of Croke Park administratively but I know I dont want the GAA to change.   My view would be if you dont like their  thing then stay away, but dont try and change something that delivers much more positivity and uniqueness to Irish / N irish life than conceivably anything else.  Many of my unionist friends are curious and bewildered but many have seen my kids play the game, they know I sell fundraising items and they support that.  Its total passion, total sport, its not bland, definitely in no way religious or sectarian,  its not neutral either but what in life is in any domain, its the most inclusive and rewarding wonderful thing anybody on this island, Protestant, Catholic, polish, Lithuanian and English man could  be involved in.  Its time more of the protestant sons of Cuchulainn understood what their culture reallly is and formed their own clubs or got stuck right in the middle of others.  Some of us choose to sit outside but we are only marginalising ourselves and are the poorer for it.    We have become a people who watch and dont participate, take and dont contribute, soccor and rugby are sports which provide the telly and the glamour but feck  all else.  The GAA is controversial among other reasons because it stands still but by God it stands tall. You leave your house on a Sunday wrapped in your colours as opposed to the Englishman goes to the pub to shout their head off at the TV on a sunday, we actually stand on the sidelines, wave the flags, pick up the litter, kick the balls, referee and all.  Do we want to be associated with the shame of that supposed idealistic club in Manchester this week or do we want to improve our ciommunities.  I say there are a hell of a lot more unionists who wish to be or indeed are  part of the GAA than the unionist leaders would wish to acknowledge and it dilutes nothing of our ideals and certainly not least the craic amongst us all.    No more excuses.  

Quote from: Evil Genius on May 16, 2008, 02:38:26 PM

Quote from: tyrone86 on May 16, 2008, 02:24:51 PM

Quote from: Evil Genius on May 16, 2008, 01:55:34 PM


Not, of course, that this semantic distinction makes a great deal of difference when placed in the context e.g. of Tyone GAA refusing permission for an Omagh bomb victims fundraiser at Healy Park, on the basis that such an event contravened the GAA's rules on being identified with "poilitical" events, so that the organisers had instead to use the much smaller St.Julian's Road (Omagh Town FC), thereby greatly reducing the amount raised.  >:(

Wrong. It was because of (the old) Rule 42, there was nothing political about it. Indeed, despite the alteration of Rule 42 to allow Soccer and Rugby in Croker you still aren't allowed to play non GAA sport in any GAA grounds bar Croke Park

You're quite correct about Rule 42 - my error. Nonetheless, I think it outrageous that GAA premises can be denied to an organisation which wants to stage a sports event to raise funds for entirely innocent victims of paramilitarism, some of them probably GAA fans themselves, whilst such premises are able to be rented by organisations which are "closely associated", shall we say, with the same (or similar) paramilitary organisations.

P.S. If we are going to be "picky", it is not "non GAA sport" per se which is banned, otherwise we would not have had e.g. American Football or Boxing allowed to be staged at GAA Grounds down the years.

Whilst not wishing to dance on the grave of the now departed OTFC, in hindsight & 10 years on, given the alleged shenanigans involved in those 3 friendlies, I'm glad that the GAA or Healy Park had nothing to do with them.

Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on May 16, 2008, 01:55:45 PMActually I don't like what goes on.  But what is going on is that individual GAA clubs are renting out their premises to events I don't like.

The GAA is not (and never has) "started raising funds for political/paramilitary groups".

Sorry Jim but that is the worst kind of double-speak. One minute the GAA own and run all the grounds (when it suits them) the next it's the local club and nothing the GAA can do about it. You can't have it both ways.

Sammy do the GAA raise funds for political / paramilitary groups, yes or no?

I'm not talking about renting halls to other groups who do, I am talking about the GAA specifically raising these funds?

Please give a yes or no answer.

Quote from: his holiness nb on May 16, 2008, 03:54:27 PM
Sammy do the GAA raise funds for political / paramilitary groups, yes or no?

I'm not talking about renting halls to other groups who do, I am talking about the GAA specifically raising these funds?

Please give a yes or no answer.

Yes

Quote from: feetofflames on May 16, 2008, 03:09:21 PM
Can I just say that the unionist people have always been involved in the GAA, protestant persuasion as well, I know this for a fact because I am from a protestant family absolutely steeped in the GAA.  I have never suffered from political or sectarian overtones within the GAA.  Ill call it as I see it,  There are those who want the GAA to change to suit their thing, the GAA is uniquely Irish and is its own thing. 
Nothing is neutral any more - no more so than Windsor Park on a big match night, which I love and attend in equal; measure, and I know its not neutral.  England at Wembley is a bastion of nationalist  fervour,  Even football clubs like Man U and Liverpool would half kill each other for no obvious reason but their locality but they are not neutral.  So what are we the unionist community asking the GAA as a whole organisation to do - abandon the very principles that have made them great.  Im not part of Croke Park administratively but I know I dont want the GAA to change.   My view would be if you dont like their  thing then stay away, but dont try and change something that delivers much more positivity and uniqueness to Irish / N irish life than conceivably anything else.  Many of my unionist friends are curious and bewildered but many have seen my kids play the game, they know I sell fundraising items and they support that.  Its total passion, total sport, its not bland, definitely in no way religious or sectarian,  its not neutral either but what in life is in any domain, its the most inclusive and rewarding wonderful thing anybody on this island, Protestant, Catholic, polish, Lithuanian and English man could  be involved in.  Its time more of the protestant sons of Cuchulainn understood what their culture reallly is and formed their own clubs or got stuck right in the middle of others.  Some of us choose to sit outside but we are only marginalising ourselves and are the poorer for it.    We have become a people who watch and dont participate, take and dont contribute, soccor and rugby are sports which provide the telly and the glamour but feck  all else.  The GAA is controversial among other reasons because it stands still but by God it stands tall. You leave your house on a Sunday wrapped in your colours as opposed to the Englishman goes to the pub to shout their head off at the TV on a sunday, we actually stand on the sidelines, wave the flags, pick up the litter, kick the balls, referee and all.  Do we want to be associated with the shame of that supposed idealistic club in Manchester this week or do we want to improve our ciommunities.  I say there are a hell of a lot more unionists who wish to be or indeed are  part of the GAA than the unionist leaders would wish to acknowledge and it dilutes nothing of our ideals and certainly not least the craic amongst us all.    No more excuses. 

Outstanding post amongst the usual rabble, well said that man...

Quote from: SammyG on May 16, 2008, 03:57:34 PM

Quote from: his holiness nb on May 16, 2008, 03:54:27 PM
Sammy do the GAA raise funds for political / paramilitary groups, yes or no?

I'm not talking about renting halls to other groups who do, I am talking about the GAA specifically raising these funds?

Please give a yes or no answer.

Yes

And there we have it folks.
Blinded by hatred enough to ignore the facts.

Sammy you are an utter f**king disgrace to civilised people.

Quote from: his holiness nb on May 16, 2008, 04:22:26 PM

Quote from: SammyG on May 16, 2008, 03:57:34 PM

Quote from: his holiness nb on May 16, 2008, 03:54:27 PM
Sammy do the GAA raise funds for political / paramilitary groups, yes or no?

I'm not talking about renting halls to other groups who do, I am talking about the GAA specifically raising these funds?

Please give a yes or no answer.

Yes

And there we have it folks.
Blinded by hatred enough to ignore the facts.

Sammy you are an utter f**king disgrace to civilised people.

Not for the first time, I have to ask what the fcuk are you on about? What facts have I ignored?

As a kid whenever we wanted a kickabout on the street or school yard or even all summer long it was soccer we played. It was easy to set up.
For the most part only played Gaelic on the school pitches and club pitches.
Club pitch wasn't accessable so it left to school where up to leaving cert some 95% of our Gaelic was played extra curricular and where we had a proper educated coach.

Would anyone have any idea how many RC schools in NI refuse to let kids play "soccer"? I'm not stirring, just curious. Or indeed, if any Rugby schools in the ROI don't play Gaelic games? I know for a fact that there are a depressing amount of state grammar schools in NI which cannot see past rugby or hockey, and will not heed calls from pupils for football. 

Quote from: Solomon Kane on May 16, 2008, 06:03:03 PM
Would anyone have any idea how many RC schools in NI refuse to let kids play "soccer"? I'm not stirring, just curious. Or indeed, if any Rugby schools in the ROI don't play Gaelic games? I know for a fact that there are a depressing amount of state grammar schools in NI which cannot see past rugby or hockey, and will not heed calls from pupils for football. 

I think this is nail on head. Schools have a certain sporting ethos and are reluctant to change. That a rugby school does not allow soccer or a soccer school GAA or a GAA school soccer etc is not by defenition sectarian.

The exact same happens in the 26, and I have yet to hear Blacrock College or Terenure described as sectarian for not allowing Gaelic games in their schools.

QuoteBlacrock College or Terenure described as sectarian for not allowing Gaelic games in their schools.

They do allow Gaelic games. If you came on here and read the regular threads, rather than just stirring sh*t, then you would have seen the thread describing the game between those very two schools.

Quote from: Evil Genius on May 15, 2008, 03:19:10 PM

Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on May 15, 2008, 02:36:44 PM
Political stuff has no place in the GAA and that needs to be changed.  Hands up, criticism taken.

However, those that don't want GAA sports in their schools are driven (for the most part) by the prejudices outlined on this topic.  Anyone who claims otherwise is blind or disingenuous.

/Jim.

I think that is a fair comment. From my observation, there are people within the GAA who are unbendingly attached to the political side of the organisation etc, when that should no longer have any place in a sporting organisation in this day and age (imo). Similarly, there are people within the non-GAA (effectively Unionist) community who will always distrust and dislike the GAA regardless. Each provides fuel for the other's prejudices.

However, I personally suspect that each faction is a minority within its community.

How to end this stand-off? I accept it can never be for outsiders such as myself to tell the GAA what they should or shouldn't do, including removing the politics. But by the same principle, unless or until the silent majority within the GAA decides for itself that it would be better off doing so, then the silent majority within the Unionist community, who sincerely believe that politics ought to have no place within sport, will have no effective answer to Unionist extremists who look for a stick - any stick - with which to beat the GAA.

In the end, if the GAA were to remove the politics, then I believe every Unionist should welcome the extension of Gaelic games to all schools. As it is, I have no great objection where it does happen, since anything that gets kids out running around in the fresh air has got to be a good thing. However, I could not campaign for it.

As I've said many times before, in the end the GAA must decide which it wants more: its Nationalist political ethos, or the willing support of one million non-Nationalist Irish people.

Over to you, Mr. Brennan.

why should the gaa change anything? the sport should be available in the schools if enough of the pupils want it, end of story. its not allowed because of bigots.
btw nice to see you great leader in his last major interview in todays irish times saying (in his opinion) "were not going to have a united ireland in the next 50 years or maybe 100 years but then i'll not be here anyway, so it doesn't matter"

what a f**king p***k, couldnt care about the rest of ye once he's gone! he's doing the very same job trimble was doing but its ok now because its him.

Quote from: Boolerhead Mel on May 16, 2008, 01:50:49 PM
So when the GAA clubs hire out function rooms to legitimate political parties they are raising money for paramilitaries-what they are doing is no worse than making a few bob. I await Sammy and his mates to also include the Hastings Hotel Group (hiring of function rooms in Europa to SF)  and Belfast City council (hire of Ulster hall to SF) be be branded paramilitary fundraisers. What was the excuse you used when UVF/LVF kicked a man to death outside Tobermore FC-not the IFA's fault as they did no remit over what happened in the club. Away and wind your neck in you p***k-attitudes like yours led to the death of good men Sean Browne to be killed and Gavin Brett to be killed. 

Good point and it's not surprising it was ignored by our mates EG and sammyg.

So do either of you two lads want to answer the above point because I, for one, would be very interested in whether or not you class hotel owners as raising money for paramilitaries. 

When the GAA take the bull by the horns and ensures clubs arent named after the likes of Kevin Lynch, perhaps then there will be much less reluctance to see gaelic footbal or hurling  in state schools.

Quote from: iluvni on May 16, 2008, 08:36:31 PM
When the GAA take the bull by the horns and ensures clubs arent named after the likes of Kevin Lynch, perhaps then there will be much less reluctance to see gaelic footbal or hurling  in state schools.

It's not up to the GAA to name clubs, it's up to the people who establish them. 

Quote from: iluvni on May 16, 2008, 08:36:31 PM
When the GAA take the bull by the horns and ensures clubs arent named after the likes of Kevin Lynch, perhaps then there will be much less reluctance to see gaelic footbal or hurling  in state schools.

I thought State schools would belong to all the people of the "statelet".
Obviously Fenians and GAA types not welcome -except to pay tax of course.

Quote from: armaghniac on May 16, 2008, 07:00:53 PM

QuoteBlacrock College or Terenure described as sectarian for not allowing Gaelic games in their schools.

They do allow Gaelic games. If you came on here and read the regular threads, rather than just stirring sh*t, then you would have seen the thread describing the game between those very two schools.

Not during the Rugby season they don't.

Quote from: pintsofguinness on May 16, 2008, 08:43:48 PM

It's not up to the GAA to name clubs, it's up to the people who establish them. 

I think the point that is being made is that the GAA centrally retain control over aspects of all grounds, so why not this one and insist on politically neutral names? The GAA is officially apolitical after all.

If retaining a nationalist identity is more important to GAA members than attracting unionist players, then its time to stop crying foul when non-nationalists don't feel included.

Quote
I think the point that is being made is that the GAA centrally retain control over aspects of all grounds, so why not this one and insist on politically neutral names? The GAA is officially apolitical after all.

Because those who establish a club can call it whatever they want, I don't see anything wrong with this.
What club names do you have a problem with exactly?

QuoteIf retaining a nationalist identity is more important to GAA members than attracting unionist players, then its time to stop crying foul when non-nationalists don't feel included.

I don't understand what you mean by that.  Who's crying foul?

how does this...

Quote from: pintsofguinness on May 16, 2008, 08:43:48 PM
It's not up to the GAA to name clubs, it's up to the people who establish them. 

get turned into this...

Quote from: dublinfella on May 16, 2008, 09:08:20 PM

I think the point that is being made is that the GAA centrally retain control over aspects of all grounds, so why not this one and insist on politically neutral names? The GAA is officially apolitical after all.

why bring grounds into it dublinfella? there must be a medical name for whats wrong with you..

Quote from: iluvni on May 16, 2008, 08:36:31 PM
When the GAA take the bull by the horns and ensures clubs arent named after the likes of Kevin Lynch, perhaps then there will be much less reluctance to see gaelic footbal or hurling  in state schools.

Another pipsqueak from the DUP dungeons or is it 'one small step'?

Quote from: Solomon Kane on May 16, 2008, 06:03:03 PM
Would anyone have any idea how many RC schools in NI refuse to let kids play "soccer"? I'm not stirring, just curious. Or indeed, if any Rugby schools in the ROI don't play Gaelic games? I know for a fact that there are a depressing amount of state grammar schools in NI which cannot see past rugby or hockey, and will not heed calls from pupils for football. 

Good that you mention that you are asking a serious question.
It is assumed that in general you are on a wind up.

I am not a catholic but I went to a De La Salle school (are they catholic?)
Always Gaelic, but officially we played soccer and rugby Volleyball and basketball from 1972 onwards.
That was South Dublin, afaik it was similar for a lot of secondary schools around.
I can't speak for backward areas like those in North Dublin nor in the outer parts beyond civilization like Mayo etc.

In NI today these tables make interesting reading

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/educ/school10.htm (http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/educ/school10.htm)
http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/educ/school9.htm (http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/educ/school9.htm)
http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/educ/school8.htm (http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/educ/school8.htm)

It would appear that Prods don't like to accentuate their Gaeldom at all.
It would appear that there is very little connection with Irish identity in sports.
It would appear that Catholic schools/students  are multi sport.

Quote from: pintsofguinness on May 16, 2008, 08:04:34 PM

Quote from: Boolerhead Mel on May 16, 2008, 01:50:49 PM
So when the GAA clubs hire out function rooms to legitimate political parties they are raising money for paramilitaries-what they are doing is no worse than making a few bob. I await Sammy and his mates to also include the Hastings Hotel Group (hiring of function rooms in Europa to SF)  and Belfast City council (hire of Ulster hall to SF) be be branded paramilitary fundraisers. What was the excuse you used when UVF/LVF kicked a man to death outside Tobermore FC-not the IFA's fault as they did no remit over what happened in the club. Away and wind your neck in you p***k-attitudes like yours led to the death of good men Sean Browne to be killed and Gavin Brett to be killed. 

Good point and it's not surprising it was ignored by our mates EG and sammyg.

So do either of you two lads want to answer the above point because I, for one, would be very interested in whether or not you class hotel owners as raising money for paramilitaries. 

Sorry I obviously missed the announcement that hotels were now sporting organisations, rather than commercial entities. Do you have a link?

Quote from: pintsofguinness on May 16, 2008, 08:43:48 PM

Quote from: iluvni on May 16, 2008, 08:36:31 PM
When the GAA take the bull by the horns and ensures clubs arent named after the likes of Kevin Lynch, perhaps then there will be much less reluctance to see gaelic footbal or hurling  in state schools.

It's not up to the GAA to name clubs, it's up to the people who establish them. 

Complete horseshit.

Quote from: SammyG on May 16, 2008, 10:40:13 PM

Quote from: pintsofguinness on May 16, 2008, 08:04:34 PM

Quote from: Boolerhead Mel on May 16, 2008, 01:50:49 PM
So when the GAA clubs hire out function rooms to legitimate political parties they are raising money for paramilitaries-what they are doing is no worse than making a few bob. I await Sammy and his mates to also include the Hastings Hotel Group (hiring of function rooms in Europa to SF)  and Belfast City council (hire of Ulster hall to SF) be be branded paramilitary fundraisers. What was the excuse you used when UVF/LVF kicked a man to death outside Tobermore FC-not the IFA's fault as they did no remit over what happened in the club. Away and wind your neck in you p***k-attitudes like yours led to the death of good men Sean Browne to be killed and Gavin Brett to be killed. 

Good point and it's not surprising it was ignored by our mates EG and sammyg.

So do either of you two lads want to answer the above point because I, for one, would be very interested in whether or not you class hotel owners as raising money for paramilitaries. 

Sorry I obviously missed the announcement that hotels were now sporting organisations, rather than commercial entities. Do you have a link?

Many GAA clubs act like commercial entities too, don't you get that or does it not suit your agenda?

Quote from: pintsofguinness on May 16, 2008, 10:42:58 PM
Many GAA clubs act like commercial entities too, don't you get that or does it not suit your agenda?

So they're commercial entities when it comes to 'freedom fighters' but they're strictly controlled when it comes to controversial stuff, like letting the local kids football team, rent a pitch? Excellent, glad you cleared that up. ::)

Quote from: SammyG on May 16, 2008, 10:46:49 PM

Quote from: pintsofguinness on May 16, 2008, 10:42:58 PM
Many GAA clubs act like commercial entities too, don't you get that or does it not suit your agenda?

So they're commercial entities when it comes to 'freedom fighters' but they're strictly controlled when it comes to controversial stuff, like letting the local kids football team, rent a pitch? Excellent, glad you cleared that up. ::)

No, there's rules against what's played on the pitches - no rules against what rents out premises for the functions.

QuoteBlacrock College or Terenure described as sectarian for not allowing Gaelic games in their schools.

They do allow Gaelic games. If you came on here and read the regular threads, rather than just stirring sh*t, then you would have seen the thread describing the game between those very two schools.

QuoteNot during the Rugby season they don't.

I'm coming in late on this cultural exchange and I don't want to take sides or anything; I've been up to my oxters in the Ciaran McDonald controversy on this and other boards and I need a breather.
But there's a point I think that needs a follow up on.
Blackrock may not allow Gaelic during the rugby season but then all sports are catered for within their own seasonsthere and in and other rugby playing schools. Rugby has its own season and games are over before the beginning of May- maybe there are exceptional reasons for prolonging the playing of rugby but, off hand, I never heard of this. Cricket and Soccer have their own fixed periods - so I am told by a gamesmaster at Blackrock.
I know some seasons have to overlap but the main emphasis is always on academic studies and pupillls are discouraged from having a go at too many different sports.
I know that the trad rugby schools have a policy of allowing access to any sport for which there is a demand in order to widen the pupils' "cultural experience." (That's what I was told anyway.)

Quote from: pintsofguinness on May 16, 2008, 09:11:58 PM

Because those who establish a club can call it whatever they want, I don't see anything wrong with this.
What club names do you have a problem with exactly?

Nor do I, but if GAA clubs want to name grounds after Republican figures, it will alienate unionists. This is not rocket science.

Quote from: pintsofguinness on May 16, 2008, 09:11:58 PMI don't understand what you mean by that.  Who's crying foul?

Have you read this thread? Posters are giving out that the GAA is not being welcomed into state schools yet arent willing to remove political baggage that will enable them to.

Its a straightforward choice.

Quote from: pintsofguinness on May 16, 2008, 10:54:08 PM


No, there's rules against what's played on the pitches - no rules against what rents out premises for the functions.

I think thats his point

Quote from: dublinfella on May 17, 2008, 03:56:44 AM
Posters are giving out that the GAA is not being welcomed into state schools yet arent willing to remove political baggage that will enable them to.

Has anyone in authority said that Gaelic games cannot be played in state schools because of the GAA's "political baggage"? Presumably they would be guided by official policy framed by specific legislation which we can all study to assess how the GAA can react to it. Please direct us to either where the authorities have said as much or the appropriate statute.

Quote from: pintsofguinness on May 16, 2008, 10:54:08 PM

Quote from: SammyG on May 16, 2008, 10:46:49 PM

Quote from: pintsofguinness on May 16, 2008, 10:42:58 PM
Many GAA clubs act like commercial entities too, don't you get that or does it not suit your agenda?

So they're commercial entities when it comes to 'freedom fighters' but they're strictly controlled when it comes to controversial stuff, like letting the local kids football team, rent a pitch? Excellent, glad you cleared that up. ::)

No, there's rules against what's played on the pitches - no rules against what rents out premises for the functions.

Actually rule 8 says

"Non-Party Political/Non-Sectarian
(a) The Association shall be non-party
political. Party political questions shall not
be discussed at its meetings, and no
Committee, Club, Council or
represenative thereof shall take part, as
such, in any party political movement. A
penalty of up to twenty four weeks
suspension may be imposed for
infringement.
(b) The Association shall be non-sectarian"

Strangely this rule isn't enforced.

What part of the rule is being broken by clubs renting their premises out sammy?

The Association shall be non-party
political.
Not that part

Party political questions shall not
be discussed at its meetings,
Not that one

and no
Committee, Club, Council or
represenative thereof shall take part, as
such, in any party political movement.
Not that one

The Association shall be non-sectarian"
Not that one

??

Quote from: dublinfella on May 17, 2008, 03:56:44 AM

Have you read this thread? Posters are giving out that the GAA is not being welcomed into state schools yet arent willing to remove political baggage that will enable them to.
Its a straightforward choice.

Maybe Sammy the Bigot has written that.
Where else did you read that?
Have you read any official statement from the schools as to why Gaelic games are not played?

QuoteNor do I, but if GAA clubs want to name grounds after Republican figures, it will alienate unionists. This is not rocket science.

Are you off your head?
Where is it on the schools manifesto that they only cater to Unonist?
Rugby Soccer and GAA clubs have great cooperation in Limavady

Clearly the bigoted policy in schools is being maintaned and supported by protestant faith schools and those of the protestant faith.

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/educ/school10.htm (http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/educ/school10.htm)
http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/educ/school9.htm (http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/educ/school9.htm)
http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/educ/school8.htm (http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/educ/school8.htm)

Quote from: nifan on May 15, 2008, 07:06:21 PM
I doubt it would get much chance in my old school (Foyle) either - even though itd be 40% catholic i reckon.
We were not even allowed a football team - rugby/cricket only >:(

Aye, prejudice most likely based partly on class and on rugby cliquery means manys a grammar school doesn't have football >:(

And where a 40% catholic school does have soccer along with rugby and cricket and hockey, is it the same type of snobbery/prejudice that would cause some of the parents / staff to prevent Gaelic games from being played.

It always amazed me that, to the best of my knowledge, the integrated education sector has never taken up gaelic games. Surely from an integrated school perspective introducing those of a unionist tradition to gaelic games would be an excellent way of breaking down barriers which is what integrated education is meant to be about. As far as I know DJ Kane, all ireland winning captain 1994, taught for years in lagan college but they never had a gaelic team. Seems like a criminal waste of a talented man, are some of these schools integrated in name only?

It's time for the parents of the children who want to play GAA to tell the school administration to stuff their snobbery/prejudice/bigotry and don't be attempting to drag the children into their primeval ways.

Quote from: feetofflames on May 16, 2008, 03:09:21 PM
Its time more of the protestant sons of Cuchulainn understood what their culture reallly is and formed their own clubs or got stuck right in the middle of others.  

I applaud almost all of your post feetofflames, and you yourself, but I have to take you up on this point. Coming from a protestant background Gaelic culture is not my culture and probably never will be, nor is any sort of Orange/Unionist culture for that matter. Someones culture is just what they decide it is themselves. Personally I owe more of what I regard is my culture to Joey Ramone, Desmond Dekker, Stephen King and a whole host of international influences than I do to anything that came from this Island. I'm not knocking anyone for what they percieve is their own culture, and perhaps some people of various persuasions could argue that I am losing out by not immersing myself in something which is uniquely Irish/Ulster. I do however resent people of any background telling me what I should or should not regard as my culture.

That said, you are showing a lot of guts. If their were only more people like you from all areas of the community we would be better off.

If you don't want to play or support or identify with Gaelic games thats your prerogative.
Ironic that you come to a GAA board to say that.

What is the issue here is that you and other people of similar or stronger views shut up and stand aside. Let those who want to play GAA in the schools to go ahead and play the Gaelic sports. Do not place any obstacles to the playing of GAA  sports by the children who want to play them.
That is the issue here.

We have a situation where some teachers poison becomes the schools policy.

Quote from: Main Street on May 18, 2008, 12:59:00 PM
If you don't want to play or support or identify with Gaelic games thats your prerogative.
Ironic that you come to a GAA board to say that.

What is the issue here is that you and other people of similar or stronger views shut up and stand aside. Let those who want to play GAA in the schools to go ahead and play the Gaelic sports. Do not place any obstacles to the playing of GAA  sports by the children who want to play them.
That is the issue here.

We have a situation where some teachers poison becomes the schools policy.

Did I read that right? Did you tell me to shut up and stand aside? I cant remember putting any obstacles in anyones place to do anything. Catch yourself on. >:( If you read my post you might actually realise that I am all for freedom of choice to do or not do whatever you want without harming others.

Then you would fully agree with the right of children to play Gaelic sports of their choice in any school in NI.
Not only that, you would also agree that anybody who objects to children playing Gaelic sports in schools should stand aside and not provide any obstacle.

Quote from: Main Street on May 18, 2008, 02:10:52 PM
Then you would fully agree with the right of children to play Gaelic sports of their choice in any school in NI.
Not only that, you would also agree that anybody who objects to children playing Gaelic sports in schools should stand aside and not provide any obstacle.

If there is a suitable demand and resources, schoolchildren should be allowed to play any sports of their choice in any school.

There is also a counter argument that if parents don't like a school's ethos, they shouldn't send their kids there. It works both ways. The example of the haircut case in Ballyclare just goes to prove that. There are plenty of clubs out there for kids who want to play Gaelic games, Rugby, Football or whatever, and plenty of other organisations which provide these activities.

Personally I dont care what way they do something as long as they get off their lazy wee Nintendo arses and do domething to break a sweat.

We are now in a position where schools share classes and resources - it is the only viable way to balance the books due to falling school numbers. If it was possible would it not make more sense for kids at a state school with an iterest in Gaelic games to train at a neighbouring RC school, and kids at an RC school with an interest in football or rugby to train at a neighbouring state school, rather than devote scarce resources in either situation to something which could struggle to get enough interest at times?     

I just remebered regulary playing a Gaelic game in my state primary school.... ;)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rounders



I just don't remember anyone telling me it was at the time :o

Quote from: Solomon Kane on May 18, 2008, 02:39:00 PM
If there is a suitable demand and resources, schoolchildren should be allowed to play any sports of their choice in any school.

There is also a counter argument that if parents don't like a school's ethos, they shouldn't send their kids there. It works both ways. The example of the haircut case in Ballyclare just goes to prove that.

That is not a counter argument, it is an opinion, not very well thought out or supported, doesn't qualify as an argument.
It certainly is not an argument in the Limavady case.
And to take another scenario where there are two schools in the one area, then the kids (most definitly catholic) will go to one even if it is further away just so they can play Gaelic and bipass the nearest school which has an entrenched outdated snobbery /bigotry/ intolerance. towards gaelic games.
Such a school's ethos has no place in a society that is aiming to rid itself of a lot of institutionalized prejudice.

QuoteThere are plenty of clubs out there for kids who want to play Gaelic games, Rugby, Football or whatever, and plenty of other organisations which provide these activities.

Basic joy/right of a kid is to play main sport of choice in a school, to aim to reprepresent the school in competition,
whether it be rugby, hockey, soccer, or GAA.
As I mentioned before I played all my GAA in school and joined a club after school.

Quote from: Main Street on May 18, 2008, 07:07:49 PM

Quote from: Solomon Kane on May 18, 2008, 02:39:00 PM
If there is a suitable demand and resources, schoolchildren should be allowed to play any sports of their choice in any school.

There is also a counter argument that if parents don't like a school's ethos, they shouldn't send their kids there. It works both ways. The example of the haircut case in Ballyclare just goes to prove that.

That is not a counter argument, it is an opinion, not very well thought out or supported, doesn't qualify as an argument.
It certainly is not an argument in the Limavady case.
And to take another scenario where there are two schools in the one area, then the kids (most definitly catholic) will go to one even if it is further away just so they can play Gaelic and bipass the nearest school which has an entrenched outdated snobbery /bigotry/ intolerance. towards gaelic games.
Such a school's ethos has no place in a society that is aiming to rid itself of a lot of institutionalized prejudice.

QuoteThere are plenty of clubs out there for kids who want to play Gaelic games, Rugby, Football or whatever, and plenty of other organisations which provide these activities.

Basic joy/right of a kid is to play main sport of choice in a school, to aim to reprepresent the school in competition,
whether it be rugby, hockey, soccer, or GAA.
As I mentioned before I played all my GAA in school and joined a club after school.

You have not thought this through at all. First of all, it is not the right of a kid to play the "sport of their choice" at a school. What if the sport of their choice cannot be provided for entirely practical reasons. There are many other popular sports out there that get little or no support from the schools - cycling, tennis or golf for example.

As regards your blinkered comments about snobbery/bigotry/intolerance, if the nearby RC school in question already has a Gaelic pitch, and a teacher who is competent enough to coach the game when the state school perhaps doesn't would it not make more sense to share facilities? Or should the state school perhaps sack the PE teacher so they can take on someone with GAA experience if it is not there already? If they have one football pitch marked out for soccer to they re-mark it for Gaelic games? What I provided is one scenario only and not a one size fits all situation. Like it or not, some schools do not presently have the facilites for adding to the sports they provide. One school I went to didn't even have outdoor facilities or anywhere to build them - we very occasionally got to borrow those of a nearby primary school - only once or twice in my whole time there. Where would you suggest we played hurling? In the school gym? It would need to be a very big gym. Not everything is a conspiracy.


Tram - perhaps that is a fair point about the use of the term "ethos". The point I should have made was, if a parent knew before applying to send a child to a school that the school didn't play Gaelic games, soccer, cricket, rugby or whatever their favourite game was for whatever reason is it not reasonable that the child lives with the consequences of that, and plays their favourite sport outside of school?

solomon, make the STATE school get the money and provide the pitch. simple really

Quote from: Solomon Kane on May 18, 2008, 11:14:28 PM
You have not thought this through at all. First of all, it is not the right of a kid to play the "sport of their choice" at a school. What if the sport of their choice cannot be provided for entirely practical reasons. There are many other popular sports out there that get little or no support from the schools - cycling, tennis or golf for example.

As GAA is the biggest sport of them all I would expect it to have a priority, above cycling tenis or golf badminton basketball ice hockey
Is there any sport bigger than the GAA?

Quotes regards your blinkered comments about snobbery/bigotry/intolerance, if the nearby RC school in question already has a Gaelic pitch, and a teacher who is competent enough to coach the game when the state school perhaps doesn't would it not make more sense to share facilities? Or should the state school perhaps sack the PE teacher so they can take on someone with GAA experience if it is not there already?

Ah a so called rational argument for separation in the guise of practicality.
Students in Limavady have no so called alternative.
Limavady students want to play GAA.
Limavady students can already play rugby and soccer.
The GAA offered to come into the Limavady school themselves.
Big deal, easy for youngsters  to play gaelic on a rugby pitch
Where there is a will there is a way.

The decision to prevent the GAA from access to willing students has all the hallmarks of snobbery even bigotry.
In how many schools around NI has this experience been repeated for Soccer as well as as Gaelic?

Quote from: Main Street on May 18, 2008, 11:35:14 PM
As GAA is the biggest sport of them all I would expect it to have a priority, above cycling tenis or golf badminton basketball ice hockey
Is there any sport bigger than the GAA?

GAA should automatically get PRIORITY over other sports as it has a larger fanbase in general?
I agree that it should have been allowed in Limavady, but is this not another type of snobbery?

Is GAA bigger in terms of partition than soccer - im not sure?
Is it a bigger sport in every school than tennis or basketball? In foyle in my time there would have been more people keen to play basketball than GAA (we actually did get basketball going at one stage) but perhaps that is a city thing.

QuoteIs there any sport bigger than the GAA?

In some places no, in others yes. You cant talk about choice then come out with this sort of pap.

Quote from: nifan on May 19, 2008, 09:22:08 AM

Quote from: Main Street on May 18, 2008, 11:35:14 PM
As GAA is the biggest sport of them all I would expect it to have a priority, above cycling tenis or golf badminton basketball ice hockey
Is there any sport bigger than the GAA?

GAA should automatically get PRIORITY over other sports as it has a larger fanbase in general?
I agree that it should have been allowed in Limavady, but is this not another type of snobbery?

Are you feckin blind as well as creative Nifan?
Where did I write automatically?
and I specified the sports that were mentioned by SK
Read what I was replying to.

QuoteIs GAA bigger in terms of partition than soccer - im not sure?

Is it a bigger sport in every school than tennis or basketball? In foyle in my time there would have been more people keen to play basketball than GAA (we actually did get basketball going at one stage) but perhaps that is a city thing.

QuoteIs there any sport bigger than the GAA?

In some places no, in others yes. You cant talk about choice then come out with this sort of pap.

If unsure  one shouldn´t reply
I posted the links for sport participation earlier so I am aware what happens at school level

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/educ/school10.htm
http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/educ/school9.htm
http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/educ/school8.htm

You wil note that Protestant kids dont play gaelic sports
Catholic kids embrace all sports
You will note that all sports (´cept cricket) are played by catholic kids

Despite the sneering attitude exemplified by Limavady to Gaelic games and the lack of facilities in the schools, available for playing Gaelic,  still Gaelic Sports have a very high profile.

After school, Gaelic sport participants are proven much more likely to become club members.
As well as demonstrable match attendance superiortity from club to county level.

Basketball/Netball popularity might just be a school thing as most schools have a gym.
After school it isn't as popular as Gaelic sports. Is that not obvious?

MS, would you have the same attitude if GAA playing schools were forced to accomodate rugby?

It seems we have two debates happening here.

Firstly, the school in question and whether there is bigotry involved in the reason not to have GAA in the school. Probably.

Secondly, do kids have some sort of right to play whatever sports they want in school. I don't think they do, and as has been said before, if playing Gaelic games in school matters that much to a kid, don't go to a rugby school.

Quote from: Main Street on May 19, 2008, 10:23:01 AM
Are you feckin blind as well as creative Nifan?
Where did I write automatically?
and I specified the sports that were mentioned by SK
Read what I was replying to.

Im neither blind nor stupid thanks.
You said you assumed the GAA should get priority over the sports you listed based on its size, then ask if any sport is bigger than the GAA.
You did specify the sports, but then questioned whether any sport was bigger. If you think size implies priority there is an inference here.

Quote
If unsure  one shouldn´t reply

seems to me I asked a question as I wasnt sure, rather than coming out with a particular argument here, so no need for the snideness.

The figures are interesting, particularly the tennis figures, whoch seems to have higher participation than either gaelic or football (though will have boys and girls unlike many of the other sports).
Still the figures dont really show what kids would want to play.
I had to play rubgy, plenty of kids have to play football, or Gaelic. The may hate them.

That "schools apart" report was published in 1977 by the way.
Hard to say how accurate it might currently be.

Quote from: dublinfella on May 19, 2008, 10:34:44 AM
MS, would you have the same attitude if GAA playing schools were forced to accomodate rugby?

It seems we have two debates happening here.

Firstly, the school in question and whether there is bigotry involved in the reason not to have GAA in the school. Probably.

Secondly, do kids have some sort of right to play whatever sports they want in school. I don't think they do, and as has been said before, if playing Gaelic games in school matters that much to a kid, don't go to a rugby school.

What GAA playing schools are you talking about?
If 40% of the students wanted to play rugby in any school and were fully supported by the parents, I would expect the school board to do its upmost.
Not to act like snobs.
In Limavady the GAA were allowed to come in but the school principal or school board reversed the decision.
40% of the kids there want to play Gaelic sports.

What nonsense is this about going to schools that only have your sports.
In NI schools, only catholics play Gaelic
but Catholics play all sports.
So if you are saying that catholics should go to catholic schools in order to play Gaelic sports then you are perpetuating the religious divisions of kids at school level.

No, I am saying that certain schools play certain sports and that is not necessarily for sectarian reasons. I went to rugby playing school and played football for my local club. Whats the problem? 

Unless it is some form of symbolic act of the GAA getting access (for free as well from your posts) to 'Protestant' schools against the wishes of school administrators.

MS - where did you get the figure that 40% of the pupils want to play gaelic?
Genuine question - i may just have missed something

QuoteIm neither blind nor stupid thanks.
You said you assumed the GAA should get priority over the sports you listed based on its size, then ask if any sport is bigger than the GAA.
You did specify the sports, but then questioned whether any sport was bigger. If you think size implies priority there is an inference here.

Now you allude that I inferred stupidity.
Keep it up though :)

I wrote
"I would expect it (GAA) to have a priority, above cycling tenis or golf badminton basketball ice hockey"
In reply to SK asking should GAA have priority over golf tennis etc

I did not write automatic priority over all sports. OKAY
You do get that point.

You invented the automatic priority over all sports thing.

s

Quoteeems to me I asked a question as I wasnt sure, rather than coming out with a particular argument here, so no need for the snideness.
The figures are interesting, particularly the tennis figures, whoch seems to have higher participation than either gaelic or football (though will have boys and girls unlike many of the other sports).
Still the figures dont really show what kids would want to play.
I had to play rubgy, plenty of kids have to play football, or Gaelic. The may hate them"

The point here is that catholic kids are attending schools alongside protestant kids.
I Limavady we have 40% catholic kids want to play Gaelic in their school and represent their school in Gaelic school competitions around Co Derry and possible Ulster, if they are good enough.
It is a great occasion of pride for parents as well as the kids to represent their school in sports.
Especially Gaelic games, the most popular attended sport in NI. the most committed member based field sport in NI.

I don't buy the school ethos thing or choose another school argument.
It is saying, that catholic kids should not go to a protestant school because they wont allow you to play gaelic sports.

Or if you do go to a protestant school, even in huge numbers like 40 or 50%, do not expect anybody to provide facilities for you to play gaelic, you can either travel another 10 miles or go to the next village where they have some sort of a facility.
There are no busses there  you can walk or cycle.
The privilege of using the school dressing rooms, showers and sport fields are just for those children who play rugby or soccer.

MS,

when you quote yourself there you cut it short

QuoteAs GAA is the biggest sport of them all I would expect it to have a priority, above cycling tenis or golf badminton basketball ice hockey

You give the reason that it should take priority - ie that it is bigger - and should therefore have priority based on size.
Your point then that it is the biggest implies that it should have priority over all other sports.

If that isnt what you meant fair enough, but do me a favour and dont go on like how I read it isnt a perfectly logical reading.

Quote from: dublinfella on May 19, 2008, 11:01:42 AM
No, I am saying that certain schools play certain sports and that is not necessarily for sectarian reasons. I went to rugby playing school and played football for my local club. Whats the problem? 

Did I not answer your question?

I don´t know your circumstances or the choices you had or the area you lived in.
Certain schools and certain reasons are one thing.
If you choose to sent your kid to a Steiner school don't expect there to be a big sports ethos.

QuoteUnless it is some form of symbolic act of the GAA getting access (for free as well from your posts) to 'Protestant' schools against the wishes of school administrators

Yes Dublinfella, is it not shocking
Protestant schools allowing the nationalist kids to play gaelic, I hear the civilization foundations cracking up once again ::)
Those croppies are getting uppity again, why don´t they just accept that we don´t want to adjust to changing times.

Quote from: nifan on May 19, 2008, 11:27:16 AM
MS,

when you quote yourself there you cut it short

QuoteAs GAA is the biggest sport of them all I would expect it to have a priority, above cycling tenis or golf badminton basketball ice hockey

You give the reason that it should take priority - ie that it is bigger - and should therefore have priority based on size.
Your point then that it is the biggest implies that it should have priority over all other sports.

If that isnt what you meant fair enough, but do me a favour and dont go on like how I read it isnt a perfectly logical reading.

Obviously your interpretation was not  perfectly logical.

Can you tell me why it is illogical.

Quote
As GAA is the biggest sport of them all I would expect it to have a priority, above cycling tenis or golf badminton basketball ice hockey

can you explain if this line means that you would expect it to have priority over these sports based on being "the biggest sport of them all", or are the 2 points in the same sentence disconnected in some way?

Quote from: Main Street on May 19, 2008, 11:36:04 AM

Did I not answer your question?

I don´t know your circumstances or the choices you had or the area you lived in.
Certain schools and certain reasons are one thing.
If you choose to sent your kid to a Steiner school don't expect there to be a big sports ethos.

So what are you arguing then?

Quote from: Main Street on May 19, 2008, 11:36:04 AM

Yes Dublinfella, is it not shocking
Protestant schools allowing the nationalist kids to play gaelic, I hear the civilization foundations cracking up once again ::)
Those croppies are getting uppity again, why don´t they just accept that we don´t want to adjust to changing times..

Jesus wept. You are arguing for the sake of it. You have no logical or rational reason to argue why schools should be obliged to lay on these extre curricular activities, but see a huge plot to surpress nationalists.

Stop sniffing glue MS, its bad for you













[/quote]

QuoteUnless it is some form of symbolic act of the GAA getting access (for free as well from your posts) to 'Protestant' schools against the wishes of school administrators

Had the headmaster of this school not agreed to the GAA coach coming? Hardly against the wishes of school administrators.

Is anyone aware of how the parents/teachers against this voiced their dissaproval?
Is there  a letter, was there a protest? There must have been something.

Quote from: dublinfella on May 19, 2008, 11:50:40 AM
Jesus wept. You are arguing for the sake of it. You have no logical or rational reason to argue why schools should be obliged to lay on these extre curricular activities, but see a huge plot to surpress nationalists.
Stop sniffing glue MS, its bad for you

Did you ask me to repeat my argument?
I have given my reasons in my earlier posts.
If you have anything to add to the debate other than imbecilile trash then don't bother, we have enough of that already from other bigots.

Quote from: Main Street link=topic=7799.msg294755#msg294755
Did you ask me to repeat my argument?
I have given my reasons in my earlier posts.

And then you contradicted yourself. Which is it? Schools to chose their sports or the 'right' of the GAA to be in any school that they see a market?

Quote from: Main Street link=topic=7799.msg294755#msg294755

If you have anything to add to the debate other than imbecilile trash then don't bother, we have enough of that already from other bigots.

Bigot? Me? And considering you have argued against your own self, calling me 'imbecilile' (spelt wrong, well done) is gas.

The GAA is perfectly entitled to try and expand the games into new 'markets'. The issue for me is the sense of entitlement you seem to think the GAA have here.

http://www.northernireland.gov.uk/news/news-dcal/news-dcal-september-2007/news-dcal-140907-new-shared-synthetic.htm (http://www.northernireland.gov.uk/news/news-dcal/news-dcal-september-2007/news-dcal-140907-new-shared-synthetic.htm)

14 September 2007 - New shared synthetic sports pitch for Limavady Grammar School - Poots

£600k synthetic pitch

"Around 24 schools and 30 community organisations, including local GAA clubs and the Boys Brigade will have access to the pitch, not just during the day, but in the evenings as well. It is a great example of what joint programme funding can achieve."

The most desirable secondary level education is Integrated Education.

Interesting to note how they deal with Sports in their 15 or 16 secondary schools

http://www.nicie.org/aboutus/default.asp?id=30 (http://www.nicie.org/aboutus/default.asp?id=30)
a short edited extract
How is sport taught in integrated schools?
Regarding PE, all Integrated Schools will try to cater for the cultural interests, including games, of both the main traditions of Northern Ireland.  All pupils will have the choice to participate or not.  The quality of coaching of Gaelic games at Integrated Schools is high, with many coaches who have played at County and Inter- Province level.

QuoteThe most desirable secondary level education is Integrated Education.

Not according to a lot on here if the previous discussions on the matter are still anything to go by!

Desirable as in demand for places.

If the integrated schools do no follow up on their high sounding ideals for gaelic sports then it will hold no great attraction for GAA members here.

Quote from: Main Street on May 19, 2008, 05:51:03 PM
Desirable as in demand for places.

Evidence to back this absurd statement up would be nice.

Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 19, 2008, 07:20:29 PM

Quote from: Main Street on May 19, 2008, 05:51:03 PM
Desirable as in demand for places.

Evidence to back this absurd statement up would be nice.

Is it absurd?
The information is that they are oversubscribed
http://www.pur.honorscollege.pitt.edu/docs/v22n1-integrated-education-burchill.pdf (http://www.pur.honorscollege.pitt.edu/docs/v22n1-integrated-education-burchill.pdf)

"Today, it is clear that the enrollment of integrated schools in 2008 will likely fall far short of either goal. This is problematic because today, the demand for integrated education greatly exceeds the number of slots available in existing schools. In 2000, over 1,000 interested students were unable to gain entrance to an integrated school (Monaghan 2). The Hazelwood students mentioned that there are large numbers of prospective student who are denied acceptance since the school cannot possibly accommodate the vast numbers of applicants"

In contrast to the reported empty desks in other 2nd level schools
If you know better SS  then please post the links.

QuoteIn contrast to the reported empty desks in other 2nd level schools

Are there many empty desks in many grammar schools?

Quote from: nifan on May 19, 2008, 08:49:25 PM

QuoteIn contrast to the reported empty desks in other 2nd level schools

Are there many empty desks in many grammar schools?

You tell me,

http://www.gtcni.org.uk/index.cfm/area/News/page/News/news_key/107/ (http://www.gtcni.org.uk/index.cfm/area/News/page/News/news_key/107/)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/politics_show/4293110.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/politics_show/4293110.stm)

Quote from: SammyG on May 16, 2008, 01:45:05 PM

Quote from: his holiness nb on May 16, 2008, 01:39:02 PM
Cant open the links Sammy. Whats in them?

"FUNCTION: Cork Republican Commemoration Committee, Christmas Fundraiser, featuring The Irish Brigade & Spirit of Freedom,Saturday 15th December 8pm at St.Finbarr's GAA club Togher Cork City, Táille €10."


and

"TERENCE MacSWINEY WEEKEND: 2.30-5pm Saturday 27 October, Ballyphehane Community Centre: 'Revolutionary Politics in Ireland: 1920 and today'. Contributions from Martin Ferris TD, Cllr. David Cullinane and Paul O'Connor, followed by open discussion. 8pm Blackrock GAA club 'A festival of Ballads' featuring The Irish Brigade, The Spirit of Freedom, Shebeen's Alan Quinn and Padraig Mór (ex Shebeen) Táille €10, tickets available from the Sinn Féin office 136 Barrack st Cork tel 021-4311389. 11am Sunday 28 October,  Historical Walk Through Rebel Cork. Guided tour of places in Cork City centre associated with people and events of the Tan war. Assemble at the Sinn Féin 136 Barrack St. 2.30pm: Annual Terence MacSwiney Commemoration, assemble at Ballyphehane Community Centre. March to the Republican Plot, St.Finbarr's cemetery, music and refreshments afterwards at Tom Lynch's bar Barrack St."

Just the first couple of random examples, if you google you'll find dozens.

Eh....random examples of.....???   Good God, a ceremony in Cork for the former Mayor of Cork? .... May gods curse be on them fenians til doomsday

Would it be OK with you for, say, a ceremony for the Royal British Legion to be held at IFA premises?

yourself and EG - ease off on the Stormont live, and the harrumphing along with the bullshit from the hill

Thanks main street.

Quote"Pupil numbers are rising in some schools and falling in others," he said.
"It is a varied picture across Northern Ireland where population is going up and down."

Perhaps the location of the integrated schools also has an effect on their desirability.
Obviously many grammars are still heavily oversubscribed - I would guarantee Lumen Christie in Derry is very much so for example, although with very strict admittanvce policies many people may not apply that would like to.

There is a general picture, the general picture is one of decline in admissions.

Not a decline in some places balanced out by a rise in admissions elsewhere.

It is a matter of record that some grammar schools are over subscribed in some areas but the overall figures are of an annual decline of 4% in the last 5 years which equates to 15,000 empty desks at second level.

from the tele

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/education/article3758394.ece (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/education/article3758394.ece)

Quote
Principal hits back in GAA row

Monday, June 02, 2008

By Will Ellison

The principal of Limavady Grammar today hit back at claims his school had refused to allow GAA sports by revealing his students will have the option of playing gaelic sports from September.

Dr Sam McGuinness said he held a meeting with GAA coaches last September to arrange the introduction of GAA sports to the school and that the sports will now be offered through the Roe Valley learning community.

The principal spoke out following claims the school was refusing to allow GAA sports to be offered after a meeting between a teacher, 30 pupils and the Co Derry GAA development officer was cancelled.

However, Dr McGuinness says he knew nothing about the meeting and had not sanctioned it.

A spokesman for Derry GAA said: "Following meetings between the school authorities and local GAA clubs, the Derry GAA coaching and games manager was approached by a staff member in the school to provide after school coaching.

"The Derry GAA agreed to provide this service and the coaching and games manager was invited into the school to meet the interested children and to provide a session.

"Over the course of the last few days, parents of the school informed the coaching and games manager that the coaching session was cancelled. To date Derry GAA have received no official communication from Limavady Grammar School on this issue."

He added: "Limavady Grammar has a long tradition of excellence in sports such as rugby, soccer and cricket and it is clear that there is huge interest in gaelic games from many of the children who attend the school."

Speaking to the Telegraph, Dr McGuinness, meanwhile said: "There has been a lot of inaccurate reporting on this matter.

"I had a meeting with six GAA members in September at the council offices that was very constructive, a very good meeting. It was decided to offer the sport through the Roe Valley learning community."

He added: "The meeting that was cancelled was with 30 pupils and a teacher who was prepared to coach them. I did not sanction the meeting. When I was asked if there was going to be GAA at the school I said in innocence no because I knew nothing about the meeting.

"The teacher then said to me he had arranged a meeting and that perhaps it would be better to cancel it.

"I have received no complaints from the 30 boys' parents, and two parents who did contact me, I have had very constructive conversations with them. From next September there will be the option of playing GAA through the Roe Valley learning community which will be very positive, very constructive."

Dr McGuinness added that he has a meeting with GAA representatives scheduled for the start of this week.

Much ado and accusations of bigotry for nothing then?

No real surprises or news here then !