History repeating itself here.
Is this new breed of Dub trying to emulate the team of 25 years ago?
Quote from: highorlow on March 25, 2008, 10:45:22 AM
History repeating itself here.
Is this new breed of Dub trying to emulate the team of 25 years ago?
Could do worse than trying to emulate an All-Ireland winning team . How is history repeating itself?
Hard nuts ????
Imagine two lads getting two yellow cards each in the one game. Never heard the like.
As an aside, did anyone see what Cullen did for his first yellow. He received the card when the ref blew for the foul by Vaughan that resulted in his sending off. He called Cullen over and booked him, and Cullen didnt seem to know what it was for. Then the linesman called the ref and told him Vaughan should be carded. So was Cullen's first yellow a case of mistake identity or did he do something prior to the Vaughan foul?
:D
Seems fairly evident that Caffrey is trying to get them to believe everyone is against them, fostering a siege mentality, and with good reason - he's proven himself to be fairly tactically inpet. The fire and brimstone apprach will get them so far (as in the last 3 years) but they'll probably come undone again somewhere along the line.
Pillar under attack!
(http://irelandposters.com/oldphotos/nelsons_column_1966.jpg)
Quote from: bennydorano on March 25, 2008, 01:19:35 PM
Seems fairly evident that Caffrey is trying to get them to believe everyone is against them, fostering a siege mentality, and with good reason - he's proven himself to be fairly tactically inpet. The fire and brimstone apprach will get them so far (as in the last 3 years) but they'll probably come undone again somewhere along the line.
That's exactly what's happening - but in order for this to be effective, you need a receptive audience and Pillar certainly has that.
Quote from: Hound on March 25, 2008, 11:58:11 AM
Imagine two lads getting two yellow cards each in the one game. Never heard the like.
As an aside, did anyone see what Cullen did for his first yellow. He received the card when the ref blew for the foul by Vaughan that resulted in his sending off. He called Cullen over and booked him, and Cullen didnt seem to know what it was for. Then the linesman called the ref and told him Vaughan should be carded. So was Cullen's first yellow a case of mistake identity or did he do something prior to the Vaughan foul?
In the build up play as Finlay hit the sublime pass to D Freeman, a Dublin player obstructed a Monaghan player in full flight. The Monaghan player was flattened.
So when play stopped after Vaughan's "tackle", the ref took Cullen aside, I assume that Cullen was the culprit, Cullen was pointing to his bloody eye probably saying it was accidental.
It was questionable, but when I saw it again there was clear intent.
The soft yellow was for Keaney after about 1/2 hour, he was just late with a clean shoulder charge but quickly followed by running over to tackle the next man Lennon with a flying fist to his body.
Over excited but not dirthy, but I don´t know if he was ticked before.
On the Cullen incident, he intended to block him alright, but there was no real dirt in it, and it was more a case of a clash between two good hard players
Agreed, no intent to do damage, more a putting his body in the way and he hurt himself in the process.
I looked at the game a second time and I have no problem with that ref. Ronaghan blatantly deserved to be carded, apart from that he got most spot on. The only questions were a few times, should he have blown or play advantage.
The Cullen incident was a good one where he played advantage.
In fact I would challenge anyone who thought he was rubbish to look at the game and pick out his mistakes.
i'll send you my version with pointed references to his mistakes. He had no consistency main street. If he had of been consistent most would have said fair enough but it got to the stage where no-one knew what constituted his interpretation of the tackle- and i have watched it a second time. What was a free one minute was let go the next. The players didn;t help him but he lost control of that game after 15 mins. Had he booked a few early on who deserved it - it might have been a different story
What's John Gough doing with himself these days? In a way he created the 12 apostles.
thought they were called the Dirty Dozen, well thats what me Dad a Galway calls them
They were always referred to as the 12 apostles down my way..........the question always was who was Judas !
Quote from: Aaron Boone on March 25, 2008, 09:38:49 PM
What's John Gough doing with himself these days? In a way he created the 12 apostles.
I think that was the beginniing of the end of John Gough's refereeing career - how dare he send of 3 Dubs in an AI final !
QuoteHow is history repeating itself?
Headbutt in the tunnel anyone?
Only ever heard them referred to as the dirty dozen myself!
I'd have known them as the 12 apostles alright, but I'd have known them as a few other names as well :D
Quote from: highorlow on March 26, 2008, 08:56:10 AM
QuoteHow is history repeating itself?
Headbutt in the tunnel anyone?
Wasn't it a punch in the tunnel in 83 ?
If it's the Talty incident, yes, I believe it was a punch. Men were men back then, no one headbutted except blackguards.
Quote from: highorlow on March 25, 2008, 10:45:22 AM
History repeating itself here.
Is this new breed of Dub trying to emulate the team of 25 years ago?
Gnevin's picture on his profile says it all. Alan Brogan taunting a Laois player last year. Nothing pleased me more than seeing the Dubs fail last year. Here's to more in 08.
He should have a picture of Bryan Cullen taunting Declan O'Sullivan after O'Sullivan missed an early goal chance. Then Kerry Mike could have the picture of O'Sullivan shaking hands after the whistle with a big smile after scoring 1-3 and getting man of the match. That's the medicine for them boys :D
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 26, 2008, 10:19:18 AM
He should have a picture of Bryan Cullen taunting Declan O'Sullivan after O'Sullivan missed an early goal chance. Then Kerry Mike could have the picture of O'Sullivan shaking hands after the whistle with a big smile after scoring 1-3 and getting man of the match. That's the medicine for them boys :D
Brilliant! ;)
Dublin are being seen as the 'dorty Dubs' again, but imo its unfortunate that it is not the actualplayers that are getting acreditied with this, but the management and selectors/fans.
IMO it would help dublin a lot if they were seen to be harder and tougher, and the team itself then just stuck to playing football and in a quiet but hard manner.
This 'image' helped Meath and Armagh to great success and I think Dublin could do with it.
Kerry are the only side that are above this as they simply have the best squad of players out there.
Tyrone are a midfield short of joining them.
imo
The '12 Apostoles' did what they had to do to win the game.
It wasnt pretty but they achieved what they set out to do.
I dont think many of us would set out with similar intentions - and I am sure they didnt either.
But plenty of us would do what it takes to win a game, I certainly dont berate them for that.
There is much to be admired in it imo.
The current Dublin squad are not hard at all as that Dubs team and will rely on image to get them feared.
The playing rules have changed - the whole discipline thing has been tightened up and the media pounce on these incidents and highlight them and really expose them - Dublin are coming in for bad press at the minute and I can only conclude that management encourage this type of behaviour.
Quote from: Tippfan on March 26, 2008, 10:17:47 AM
Quote from: highorlow on March 25, 2008, 10:45:22 AM
History repeating itself here.
Is this new breed of Dub trying to emulate the team of 25 years ago?
Gnevin's picture on his profile says it all. Alan Brogan taunting a Laois player last year. Nothing pleased me more than seeing the Dubs fail last year. Here's to more in 08.
Sure you'd hate us no matter what i done ,would you ever go feck off .
The 83 Dublin wasnt dirty in the slightest (bar Mullins ;D ). Anyone who thinks they are must have only seen them play one game. In 83 they played (among others) Meath twice, All Ireland champions Offaly and then Cork twice. They were all tough teams who could look after themselves, but there was hardly a dirty stroke in any of those games. The All Ireland final of 83 was just one of those things that happens sometimes in football. Two very tense teams, played in appalling conditions and reffed poorly. Barring Duff's awful wild swing, something he never did before or after (despite what some eejits would tell you), the real only dirt in the game was the Mullins v Talty ongoing feud. The 83 Dublin team wasnt a patch on the 70s team in terms of toughness. And again there were's nothing out of the ordinary in their runs to the 84 and 85 All Ireland finals.
Quote from: orangeman on March 26, 2008, 10:46:48 AM
The playing rules have changed - the whole discipline thing has been tightened up and the media pounce on these incidents and highlight them and really expose them
Look at the difference in Colm 'Senior selector with Senchelstown' Keys coverage in the Indo of Graham Geraghtys two punches on David Henry in the championship last year - something along the lines of 'There may have been accidential contact', in the build up to the CCCC reviewing that incident and his article today.
If the incident is found to have taken place, then as all the other right-minded Dub posters have said, the individual should be removed from his role and have the book thrown at him.
Quote from: Hound on March 26, 2008, 11:04:27 AM
The 83 Dublin wasnt dirty in the slightest (bar Mullins ;D ). Anyone who thinks they are must have only seen them play one game. In 83 they played (among others) Meath twice, All Ireland champions Offaly and then Cork twice. They were all tough teams who could look after themselves, but there was hardly a dirty stroke in any of those games. The All Ireland final of 83 was just one of those things that happens sometimes in football. Two very tense teams, played in appalling conditions and reffed poorly. Barring Duff's awful wild swing, something he never did before or after (despite what some eejits would tell you), the real only dirt in the game was the Mullins v Talty ongoing feud. The 83 Dublin team wasnt a patch on the 70s team in terms of toughness. And again there were's nothing out of the ordinary in their runs to the 84 and 85 All Ireland finals.
Sorry Hound, but I remember watching that game at the time and on TG4 since. That Dublin were a dirty team then is open to debate. But that Dublin were dirty that day is a fact. They were not only dirty, they were systematically dirty. They were leaving in late boots and fists all day, the Ref should have sent one off early and that might have quietened it but he let it get out of hand.
Kieran Duff kicked a fella in the head when he was on the ground...
Mullins cold cocked somebody when he wasn't looking...
You could add cowardice to dirty.
That does not excuse Galway's absolute abject display on that day, it was no wonder that they were lost in oblivion for 32 years after that . Talty at least stood up to them, how ironic that he is now so heavily involved with the Dubs.
Just something I saw on An Fear Rua website.......glad to hear Mullins was prud of himself and Barney saying a Galway lad threw the first gig as if trying to justify what went after ::) They were no angels on our side but..........
The Game of Shame: Dublin v Galway 1983
All-Ireland Final day is the most important day of the year in the GAA calendar and many games have gone down in history as unforgettable classics which enthralled the nation. Unfortunately the 1983 Football Final between Dublin and Galway is remembered for all the wrong reasons. It was a game full of thuggery and ugliness, where 4 players were sent off and others were lucky not to join them.
"People had witnessed something never seen before, an All-Ireland final where one team finished with 12 men and the other team with 14."
Mártan Ó Ciardha, Raidió na Gaeltachta
It is impossible to locate the exact source of the disgraceful scenes which marred the final as there was no history of violence in previous clashes between the sides. Ironically both Dublin and Galway were lucky to have reached the final at all, as both needed late goals in the semi-finals to stay in the championship. Dublin salvaged a draw with Cork thanks to a Barney Rock goal in injury time before beating them in a memorable replay in Páirc Uí Chaoimh, while Galway defeated an unlucky Donegal thanks to a Brian O'Donnell strike.
GAA fans were looking forward to the final in '83 as both counties had a proud footballing tradition, and it was also the first final since 1977 that didn't involve Kerry. Conditions were terrible on the day of the match with the gale force wind and driving rain making it impossible for the players to play constructive football, and the physical battle was more intense than usual. The game was full of dangerous sliding tackles and heated exchanges between players was frequent.
"If you study the match again, the first dig was thrown by Galway."
Barney Rock, Dublin Player
"We would be getting stuck in there's no doubt about that. There's no point in playing Gaelic Football unless you're going to get stuck into the guy."
Brian Talty, Galway Player
Barney Rock scored a bizarre goal from 40 years after a poor free-out from Galway goalkeeper Padraig Coyne. Galway protested claiming that the goal should not have been allowed due to Dublin manager Kevin Heffernan interfering with play as he attended to the injured Joe McNally, but referee John Gough did not agree and the goal stood.
Then things turned sour for Dublin. After a tussle in midfield, Dublin legend Brian Mullins swung back his arm and connected with Brian Talty, sending him crashing to the ground. The referee decided to send Mullins off.
"If I look back on it, a lot of thoughts run through my mind. It happened and I had to accept it."
Brian Mullins, Dublin Player
"It's hard to remember back because it was such a hard belt! The memory of it is nearly gone, or maybe I don't want to remember."
Brian Talty, Galway Player
Shortly before half-time a number of players clashed beneath the Hogan Stand and to the crowds amazement John Gough decided to send off a player from each side, Ray Hazley from Dublin and Tomás Tierney of Galway.
"In my view neither player deserved to be given their marching orders. But perhaps another one of our players was lucky that he wasn't sent off."
Stephen Joyce, Galway Player
The referee's whistle for half-time brought a ceasefire of sorts, however players clashed in the tunnel and although rumours circulated for years about the incident, whatever happened in the tunnel stayed in the tunnel. Interestingly though, Brian Talty of Galway never returned for the second half.
"Brian Mullins came in after for Brian Talty. I ran in and stood in his way."
Stephen Joyce, Galway Player
Five minutes after the restart another unsavoury incident led to the dismissal of Ciaran Duff of Dublin after he kicked Galway's Pat O'Neill while he was on the ground. All of a sudden it was 14 men against 12 on a day which did nothing for the reputation of Gaelic football or for the GAA.
"I'm sure Ciaran will always look back on it as a moment of madness."
Barney Rock, Dublin Player
Dublin's '12 Apostles' defended superbly against the onslaught of Galway attacks and held out for a famous win by a margin of 2 points, but the controversy tended to overshadow the Dubs' great achievement.
After the match some Galway officials depicted Dublin as a squad of hitmen with no regard for decency or fair play. In reality Galway's inept use of 2 extra men was the main reason of their downfall.
"The '12 Apostles' had beaten us. It wasn't easy to take."
Stephen Joyce, Galway Player
The following morning's newspapers coverage had very little to do with the actual game, but focused on the ugliness of the match and also reported on the poor supervision at exits and the terrible crushing in the Canal End and on Hill 16, where a fan was stabbed. There were reports of clashes amongst supporters after the match and of buses full of Galway fans being stoned as they left Dublin.
"For the first time in my life I was really scared at a football match. People were pushing and shoving."
Antoin Delap, GAA Fan
"I was in the Hill. I was 13 at the time and the one thing you can't forget was the sheer crush in the crowd. It was frightening."
David Whelan, Dublin Fan
The pressure was on the GAA authorities to act fast and deal with the controversy on the pitch, but it took weeks for the organisation to sort out all the disciplinary matters arising from the final. When the punishments were announced Dublin felt aggrieved believing they were handed far too much of the responsibility for the controversies.
Ciaran Duff was banned for 12 months, Brian Mullins for 5 months, their manager Kevin Heffernan received a 3 month ban while Ray Hazley got a month. 2 players from Galway, Tomás Tierney and Peter Lee were both suspended for 1 month each. Both county boards were also fined.
"At the end of the day it was a major achievement. Everyone had a winners medal and we were extremely proud."
Brian Mullins, Dublin Player
Mullins cold cocked somebody when he wasn't looking...
You could add cowardice to dirty.
Mullins was fearless !
Quote from: orangeman on March 26, 2008, 12:06:02 PM
Mullins cold cocked somebody when he wasn't looking...
You could add cowardice to dirty.
Mullins was fearless !
No one know what happened in the tunnel so that comment is infact slanderous , Also orange will you please use the f**king quote button like everyone else .
Take a chill pill GNevin. If we can put up with trying to decipher your hieroglyphic ramblings, we can understand when orangeman uses italics for quotes. :D
GY Joe, how do you know Mullins cold cocked him? I thought it was a row?
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 26, 2008, 02:40:06 PM
Take a chill pill GNevin. If we can put up with trying to decipher your hieroglyphic ramblings, we can understand when orangeman uses italics for quotes. :D
GY Joe, how do you know Mullins cold cocked him? I thought it was a row?
He swung his forearm back when Talty had his attention elsewhere and flattened him.
half time tunnel fights reminds me of the great one between the Dubs and flour bags in the early/mid 90's I think it was.
the plan seemed to be to ambush the kildare men in the tunnel at half time when both teams were running off.
Every Dub was told to smack the nearest kildare man to him.
Unfortunately Goal patron 'John O'Shea' was in the tunnel at that moment in time, with his white 'Goal' track suit on.
His good friend and fund raising colleague Dublin goalie John O'Leary didnt realise who it was as he decked him - all John saw was a white track suit and no one hitting him.
Dont know if this is true, but I found it funny then - and still do to be honest ! :D
How do you know? That's a sort of a dangerous allegation unless Talty or himself came out and said it?
Sure it's all good fun now - I wonder will the Tommy Freeman incident be looked upon with the same fondness in 20 years time ? ;D
Quote from: orangeman on March 26, 2008, 03:21:39 PM
Sure it's all good fun now - I wonder will the Tommy Freeman incident be looked upon with the same fondness in 20 years time ? ;D
In 20 year people will be saying Tommy who?
Maybe not ? This could be the Ashley Cole moment in Gaelic football ??? ;) ;)
Quote from: orangeman on March 26, 2008, 04:30:47 PM
Maybe not ? This could be the Ashley Cole moment in Gaelic football ??? ;) ;)
Ashley Cole moment?? When Arsenal were 'taking the piss' and only offered him 60k per week (or whatever it was)??
Any of ye read the sports part in the Indo today? 5 greatest Whodunnits? John Finn's jaw been broken by a Dublin player was one of them. They were an awful dirty shower alright those Dubs. :P
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 26, 2008, 06:51:39 PM
Any of ye read the sports part in the Indo today? 5 greatest Whodunnits? John Finn's jaw been broken by a Dublin player was one of them. They were an awful dirty shower alright those Dubs. :P
That's why they were christened the Durty Dubs. ;D
Barney Rubble broke his jaw
Quote"At the end of the day it was a major achievement. Everyone had a winners medal and we were extremely proud."
Brian Mullins, Dublin Player
When / What year did Mullins state that? I'm sure it was soon after the 83 final ? Correct me if i'm wrong but didn't Mullins donate his 83 AI medal to charity, i think i remember watching some RTE telethon thing about 15 years ago and he said he was donating the medal for a charity auction cause he was ashamed of it ?
Any Dubs clarify if my memory is coorect and if so i wonder where the medal is now?
Quote from: highorlow on March 26, 2008, 10:59:07 PM
Quote"At the end of the day it was a major achievement. Everyone had a winners medal and we were extremely proud."
Brian Mullins, Dublin Player
When / What year did Mullins state that? I'm sure it was soon after the 83 final ? Correct me if i'm wrong but didn't Mullins donate his 83 AI medal to charity, i think i remember watching some RTE telethon thing about 15 years ago and he said he was donating the medal for a charity auction cause he was ashamed of it ?
Any Dubs clarify if my memory is coorect and if so i wonder where the medal is now?
Brian Muliins has given away all his All Ireland winners medals, including club. Mainly to female members of his family, I remember the incident you're on about, but I've no recollection, and have never heard of, the story about him being ashamed of it. It doesn't sound like him!
Quote from: stephenite on March 26, 2008, 11:09:00 PM
Quote from: highorlow on March 26, 2008, 10:59:07 PM
Quote"At the end of the day it was a major achievement. Everyone had a winners medal and we were extremely proud."
Brian Mullins, Dublin Player
When / What year did Mullins state that? I'm sure it was soon after the 83 final ? Correct me if i'm wrong but didn't Mullins donate his 83 AI medal to charity, i think i remember watching some RTE telethon thing about 15 years ago and he said he was donating the medal for a charity auction cause he was ashamed of it ?
Any Dubs clarify if my memory is coorect and if so i wonder where the medal is now?
Brian Muliins has given away all his All Ireland winners medals, including club. Mainly to female members of his family, I remember the incident you're on about, but I've no recollection, and have never heard of, the story about him being ashamed of it. It doesn't sound like him!
He wasn't a shamed , he said since he didn't finish the game he didn't feel he earned it
I this game well - I was sitting in the lower Cusack with my Dad right in line with Duff when he booted yer man. At the time Talty was teaching us PE in St Davids Artane, Mullins was teaching in Killbarrack (I think). Talty didnt appear back in school until the following Thursday, sporting a nice shiner. He obviously took some severe ribbing as he got a kid suspended for slabbering a bit too much about the game.
say no more, they were at it again in the Nell today!
with this carry on the Dubs are going nowhere fast!