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Northern Ireland's only gay rugby team is promoting a form of sporting apartheid, Sports Minister Edwin Poots has claimed.

Mr Poots said he could not understand the motivation behind the founding of the Belfast-based Ulster Titans.

"I just cannot fathom why people see the necessity to develop an apartheid in sport," he said.

However, one of the team's founders, Declan Lavery, said everyone was welcome to join the club.

"When the club was set up it welcomed members regardless of their age, creed, religion, sexual orientation or whatever, and that's how it continues," Mr Lavery said.

"Yes, it was primarily something established as a vehicle for gay people but that doesn't mean somebody who isn't gay can't join, everyone is welcome."

However, Mr Poots said: "It would be unacceptable to produce an all-black rugby team or an all-white team or an all-Chinese team.

"To me it's equally unacceptable to produce an all-homosexual rugby team and I find it remarkable that people who talk so much about inclusivity and about having an equal role in society would then go down the route of exclusion."

Sourced BBCi: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7253965.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7253965.stm)

I can see Poot's point, would it be acceptable to have an all-black or all-white team? So why would a gay team be more acceptable?

That said, I don't really think that this is Poot's real reason.

Can you imagine getting caught in the bottom of a ruck against them....... :o

Quote"When the club was set up it welcomed members regardless of their age, creed, religion, sexual orientation or whatever, and that's how it continues," Mr Lavery said.

"Yes, it was primarily something established as a vehicle for gay people but that doesn't mean somebody who isn't gay can't join, everyone is welcome."

I suppose that's fair enough.

It seems a little strange though is it any different than a Gay bar?

Quote from: ziggysego on February 19, 2008, 09:19:04 PM
Northern Ireland's only gay rugby team is promoting a form of sporting apartheid, Sports Minister Edwin Poots has claimed.

Mr Poots said he could not understand the motivation behind the founding of the Belfast-based Ulster Titans.

"I just cannot fathom why people see the necessity to develop an apartheid in sport," he said.

However, one of the team's founders, Declan Lavery, said everyone was welcome to join the club.

"When the club was set up it welcomed members regardless of their age, creed, religion, sexual orientation or whatever, and that's how it continues," Mr Lavery said.

"Yes, it was primarily something established as a vehicle for gay people but that doesn't mean somebody who isn't gay can't join, everyone is welcome."

However, Mr Poots said: "It would be unacceptable to produce an all-black rugby team or an all-white team or an all-Chinese team.

"To me it's equally unacceptable to produce an all-homosexual rugby team and I find it remarkable that people who talk so much about inclusivity and about having an equal role in society would then go down the route of exclusion."

Sourced BBCi: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7253965.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7253965.stm)

I can see Poot's point, would it be acceptable to have an all-black or all-white team? So why would a gay team be more acceptable?

That said, I don't really think that this is Poot's real reason.

Someone should tell Mick Boyd and the owcers.

So I guess in Mr Poots mind gay people are as much a part of decent everyday society as white christian males and so should have no need to found what is basically a form of support group?

Down with this sort of thing! Careful now. It think it would be ridiculous to stoop to having some wise cracks but WTF? .....  I wonder how many of the team are familiar with the 'prop forward position' ... or have ever experienced 'a quick spurt up the blind side' .... TO BE CONTINUED....

He has a point and he's entitled to his opinion. The spokeman says non gays are allowed to join but you would have to ask how many would want to?

Quote from: saffron sam2 on February 19, 2008, 09:34:56 PM

Quote from: ziggysego on February 19, 2008, 09:19:04 PM
Northern Ireland's only gay rugby team is promoting a form of sporting apartheid, Sports Minister Edwin Poots has claimed.

Mr Poots said he could not understand the motivation behind the founding of the Belfast-based Ulster Titans.

"I just cannot fathom why people see the necessity to develop an apartheid in sport," he said.

However, one of the team's founders, Declan Lavery, said everyone was welcome to join the club.

"When the club was set up it welcomed members regardless of their age, creed, religion, sexual orientation or whatever, and that's how it continues," Mr Lavery said.

"Yes, it was primarily something established as a vehicle for gay people but that doesn't mean somebody who isn't gay can't join, everyone is welcome."

However, Mr Poots said: "It would be unacceptable to produce an all-black rugby team or an all-white team or an all-Chinese team.

"To me it's equally unacceptable to produce an all-homosexual rugby team and I find it remarkable that people who talk so much about inclusivity and about having an equal role in society would then go down the route of exclusion."

Sourced BBCi: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7253965.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7253965.stm)

I can see Poot's point, would it be acceptable to have an all-black or all-white team? So why would a gay team be more acceptable?

That said, I don't really think that this is Poot's real reason.

Someone should tell Mick Boyd and the owcers.

Indeed:

IFA strengthens Chinese links
Thursday 4 March 2004

The Irish Football Association's Football For All Campaign, which aims to make the sport of football in Northern Ireland more inclusive, is reaching out and developing closer ties with the local Chinese community.

Significant backing
UEFA is giving significant financial backing to the Football for All campaign, which is focusing on issues such as sectarianism, racism, and the participation of women and people with special needs in football.

Free tickets
The Northern Ireland Chinese Football Association received free tickets to Northern Ireland's recent friendly international fixture against Norway at Windsor Park, Belfast and were invited to meet the Northern Ireland team.

Special guests
IFA community relations officer Michael Boyd said: "The Northern Ireland Chinese Football Association team recently beat their Republic of Ireland counterparts 1-0, with Stanley Chan from Belfast scoring the winner for the Northern Ireland team. It was then suggested to me by the Northern Ireland supporters to invite the team to the Norway game as special guests of the Football For All project and introduce them to the crowd at half time. The Northern Ireland fans have really taken the team to their hearts."

Everyone welcome
Phil Smyth, chairman of the Amalgamation of Northern Ireland Supporters Clubs, added: "At a time when racist attacks have been on the increase in Northern Ireland, we want to make sure that people know the Northern Ireland fans welcome all people to Northern Ireland games."
http://www.uefa.com/news/newsid=151257,printer.htmx

"Stan Chan,
He's our Boy,
If he can't do it
No-one will"
(With due apologies to The Simpsons)

©uefa.com 1998-2008. All rights reserved.

This guy Poots really is getting my goat lately. I mean, what harm are they doing? Keeps them off the streets and leaves more rampant fanny for the likes of me to chase. Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Our Lord when he was on the cross come out as being gay? I may be mistaken there but he cried out something in Hebrew about it. Also, Jesus was also labelled as a terrorist on the cross - when they put a sign saying INLA at the top of the cross -  so a gay Jewish Irish freedom fighter, who the DUP all love should be a good example for all of us!!!  

 check out the ad at bottom of page! :o.

Quote from: ziggysego on February 19, 2008, 09:19:04 PM

However, Mr Poots said: "It would be unacceptable to produce an all-black rugby team...

Errr.... Edwin.... www.allblacks.com   ?    ;)

Quote from: Minder on February 19, 2008, 10:19:32 PM
check out the ad at bottom of page! :o.

Car insurance?

Rugby in general always struck me as gay.

Quote from: Solomon Kane on February 19, 2008, 10:37:31 PM
Rugby in general always struck me as gay.

More so that soccer?  ;)

One of the boys that plays in our sunday league over here is gay, and hes the best fecking player in the league by a country mile. He'd tear the fermanagh and western apart.

Anyways fair play to these boyos, the womens rugby teams have been doing it for years.

Quote from: Minder on February 19, 2008, 09:22:52 PM
Can you imagine getting caught in the bottom of a ruck against them....... :o

Yeah, especially if you're the one with the hard on  :o

Don't go dropping the soap in the shower after the game either :-[

ffs lads  ::)

Soap on a rope only allowed.

Quote from: Puckoon on February 19, 2008, 11:37:15 PM
Soap on a rope only allowed.

Not for some of these boys, by the sounds of things they'd be throwing the soap on the ground.

Quote from: ziggysego on February 19, 2008, 10:38:57 PM

Quote from: Solomon Kane on February 19, 2008, 10:37:31 PM
Rugby in general always struck me as gay.

More so that soccer?  ;)

Without a doubt - it's a grammar school thing. ;) ;D

Quote from: Evil Genius on February 19, 2008, 10:07:38 PM

Quote from: saffron sam2 on February 19, 2008, 09:34:56 PM

Quote from: ziggysego on February 19, 2008, 09:19:04 PM
Northern Ireland's only gay rugby team is promoting a form of sporting apartheid, Sports Minister Edwin Poots has claimed.

Mr Poots said he could not understand the motivation behind the founding of the Belfast-based Ulster Titans.

"I just cannot fathom why people see the necessity to develop an apartheid in sport," he said.

However, one of the team's founders, Declan Lavery, said everyone was welcome to join the club.

"When the club was set up it welcomed members regardless of their age, creed, religion, sexual orientation or whatever, and that's how it continues," Mr Lavery said.

"Yes, it was primarily something established as a vehicle for gay people but that doesn't mean somebody who isn't gay can't join, everyone is welcome."

However, Mr Poots said: "It would be unacceptable to produce an all-black rugby team or an all-white team or an all-Chinese team.

"To me it's equally unacceptable to produce an all-homosexual rugby team and I find it remarkable that people who talk so much about inclusivity and about having an equal role in society would then go down the route of exclusion."

Sourced BBCi: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7253965.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7253965.stm)

I can see Poot's point, would it be acceptable to have an all-black or all-white team? So why would a gay team be more acceptable?

That said, I don't really think that this is Poot's real reason.

Someone should tell Mick Boyd and the owcers.

Indeed:

IFA strengthens Chinese links
Thursday 4 March 2004

The Irish Football Association's Football For All Campaign, which aims to make the sport of football in Northern Ireland more inclusive, is reaching out and developing closer ties with the local Chinese community.

Significant backing
UEFA is giving significant financial backing to the Football for All campaign, which is focusing on issues such as sectarianism, racism, and the participation of women and people with special needs in football.

Free tickets
The Northern Ireland Chinese Football Association received free tickets to Northern Ireland's recent friendly international fixture against Norway at Windsor Park, Belfast and were invited to meet the Northern Ireland team.

Special guests
IFA community relations officer Michael Boyd said: "The Northern Ireland Chinese Football Association team recently beat their Republic of Ireland counterparts 1-0, with Stanley Chan from Belfast scoring the winner for the Northern Ireland team. It was then suggested to me by the Northern Ireland supporters to invite the team to the Norway game as special guests of the Football For All project and introduce them to the crowd at half time. The Northern Ireland fans have really taken the team to their hearts."

Everyone welcome
Phil Smyth, chairman of the Amalgamation of Northern Ireland Supporters Clubs, added: "At a time when racist attacks have been on the increase in Northern Ireland, we want to make sure that people know the Northern Ireland fans welcome all people to Northern Ireland games."
http://www.uefa.com/news/newsid=151257,printer.htmx

"Stan Chan,
He's our Boy,
If he can't do it
No-one will"
(With due apologies to The Simpsons)

©uefa.com 1998-2008. All rights reserved.

And that is my point - Mr Poots has no logical argument here. An all-Chinese team is rightly celebrated, yet he would claim such a team is inappropriate. Why has he not been issuing statements calling for the dispanding of the NI Chinese soccer team? Smacks a bit of homophobia I think.

I have been disappointed in the number of people on this thread agreeing with Pootsie - to me it is indicative of a general homophobia in society. Most hetrosexuals work on the mistaken assumption that gays and lesbians find them attractive and are scared that they will be propositioned / attacked by a gay. Not the case folks.

What would have been a more interesting question for this thread would be - "If the Ulster Titans* were a man short would you be prepared to step into the breech?"

I am happy enough in my ugliness and would have no problem answering yes to this question, provided I could play full back. This is because I feel it would be my best position and not because I would want to keep all the rugger buggers in front of me.

* Is Titans a corruption of a wee bit of Ulster Scots?

Quote from: saffron sam2 on February 20, 2008, 08:24:41 AM

Quote from: Evil Genius on February 19, 2008, 10:07:38 PM

Quote from: saffron sam2 on February 19, 2008, 09:34:56 PM

Quote from: ziggysego on February 19, 2008, 09:19:04 PM
Northern Ireland's only gay rugby team is promoting a form of sporting apartheid, Sports Minister Edwin Poots has claimed.

Mr Poots said he could not understand the motivation behind the founding of the Belfast-based Ulster Titans.

"I just cannot fathom why people see the necessity to develop an apartheid in sport," he said.

However, one of the team's founders, Declan Lavery, said everyone was welcome to join the club.

"When the club was set up it welcomed members regardless of their age, creed, religion, sexual orientation or whatever, and that's how it continues," Mr Lavery said.

"Yes, it was primarily something established as a vehicle for gay people but that doesn't mean somebody who isn't gay can't join, everyone is welcome."

However, Mr Poots said: "It would be unacceptable to produce an all-black rugby team or an all-white team or an all-Chinese team.

"To me it's equally unacceptable to produce an all-homosexual rugby team and I find it remarkable that people who talk so much about inclusivity and about having an equal role in society would then go down the route of exclusion."

Sourced BBCi: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7253965.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7253965.stm)

I can see Poot's point, would it be acceptable to have an all-black or all-white team? So why would a gay team be more acceptable?

That said, I don't really think that this is Poot's real reason.

Someone should tell Mick Boyd and the owcers.

Indeed:

IFA strengthens Chinese links
Thursday 4 March 2004

The Irish Football Association's Football For All Campaign, which aims to make the sport of football in Northern Ireland more inclusive, is reaching out and developing closer ties with the local Chinese community.

Significant backing
UEFA is giving significant financial backing to the Football for All campaign, which is focusing on issues such as sectarianism, racism, and the participation of women and people with special needs in football.

Free tickets
The Northern Ireland Chinese Football Association received free tickets to Northern Ireland's recent friendly international fixture against Norway at Windsor Park, Belfast and were invited to meet the Northern Ireland team.

Special guests
IFA community relations officer Michael Boyd said: "The Northern Ireland Chinese Football Association team recently beat their Republic of Ireland counterparts 1-0, with Stanley Chan from Belfast scoring the winner for the Northern Ireland team. It was then suggested to me by the Northern Ireland supporters to invite the team to the Norway game as special guests of the Football For All project and introduce them to the crowd at half time. The Northern Ireland fans have really taken the team to their hearts."

Everyone welcome
Phil Smyth, chairman of the Amalgamation of Northern Ireland Supporters Clubs, added: "At a time when racist attacks have been on the increase in Northern Ireland, we want to make sure that people know the Northern Ireland fans welcome all people to Northern Ireland games."
http://www.uefa.com/news/newsid=151257,printer.htmx

"Stan Chan,
He's our Boy,
If he can't do it
No-one will"
(With due apologies to The Simpsons)

©uefa.com 1998-2008. All rights reserved.

And that is my point - Mr Poots has no logical argument here. An all-Chinese team is rightly celebrated, yet he would claim such a team is inappropriate. Why has he not been issuing statements calling for the dispanding of the NI Chinese soccer team? Smacks a bit of homophobia I think.

I have been disappointed in the number of people on this thread agreeing with Pootsie - to me it is indicative of a general homophobia in society. Most hetrosexuals work on the mistaken assumption that gays and lesbians find them attractive and are scared that they will be propositioned / attacked by a gay. Not the case folks.

What would have been a more interesting question for this thread would be - "If the Ulster Titans* were a man short would you be prepared to step into the breech?"

I am happy enough in my ugliness and would have no problem answering yes to this question, provided I could play full back. This is because I feel it would be my best position and not because I would want to keep all the rugger buggers in front of me.

* Is Titans a corruption of a wee bit of Ulster Scots?

Stop.......Grammar time.

Lads, some of you are missing the point again and going down the usual bumboy jokes route.

The DUP are, by their very nature and existence, fascist bigots - anyone not white, 'Christian' and British folk in their outlook, lifestyle and beliefs is evil.  It just so happens this gay rugby team are getting it in the neck today.

(http://www.jon44w.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/limpfight.gif)

Watch out for the tackles from behind :o :o

I wonder will Mr Poots be objecting to the Chinese soccer teams participation in the world cup qualifiers?

Eegit.

The worst thing is, the guy on the Rugby team clearly said its not just for gay people, everyone is welcome, so he doesnt even have a valid point.

Good to see the efforts to bring the chinese guys into the fold at the NI game. From what I hear, they get a lot of racist abuse in certain areas up North, werent one group putting up posters giving out about "yellow people" coming here a year or so back? Cant remember who it was, or which "side" before we get into a "you lot are more racist that our lot debate.

Quote from: Minder on February 20, 2008, 08:27:27 AM

Stop.......Grammar time.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/givemeamoment/haha025cy.gif)

Quote from: ziggysego on February 19, 2008, 09:19:04 PM
Northern Ireland's only gay rugby team is promoting a form of sporting apartheid, Sports Minister Edwin Poots has claimed.

Mr Poots said he could not understand the motivation behind the founding of the Belfast-based Ulster Titans.

"I just cannot fathom why people see the necessity to develop an apartheid in sport," he said.

However, one of the team's founders, Declan Lavery, said everyone was welcome to join the club.

"When the club was set up it welcomed members regardless of their age, creed, religion, sexual orientation or whatever, and that's how it continues," Mr Lavery said.

"Yes, it was primarily something established as a vehicle for gay people but that doesn't mean somebody who isn't gay can't join, everyone is welcome."

However, Mr Poots said: "It would be unacceptable to produce an all-black rugby team or an all-white team or an all-Chinese team.

"To me it's equally unacceptable to produce an all-homosexual rugby team and I find it remarkable that people who talk so much about inclusivity and about having an equal role in society would then go down the route of exclusion."

Sourced BBCi: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7253965.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7253965.stm)

I can see Poot's point, would it be acceptable to have an all-black or all-white team? So why would a gay team be more acceptable?

That said, I don't really think that this is Poot's real reason.

The DUP weren't too bothered about apartheid when it was happening in South Africa ... sure didn't Eric 'IQ of 6' Smyth famously describe Nelson Mandela as a "black Provo"

Quote from: his holiness nb on February 20, 2008, 10:00:48 AM
Good to see the efforts to bring the chinese guys into the fold at the NI game. From what I hear, they get a lot of racist abuse in certain areas up North, werent one group putting up posters giving out about "yellow people" coming here a year or so back? Cant remember who it was, or which "side" before we get into a "you lot are more racist that our lot debate.

Tbh, whilst there is a great degree of racism in NI generally, soccer can only do what it can do. As such, I am proud that they not only support and actively encourage participation between the two "main" communities in NI, but they also do a hell of a lot of work with e.g. disabled and homeless football, women and girls, immigrant groups and cross-border games etc, as well as the Chinese team, which latter I know has been especially well received by NI's Chinese community.

http://www.irishfa.com/grassroots/womens-development/
http://www.irishfa.com/grassroots/disability-football/
http://www.irishfa.com/grassroots/football-for-all/

If you can have a womans rugby team, why not a gay one? Does the govt at Stormont fund the team? Is that what the minister is on about?

Can youse imagine what it would be like playing a full contact sport with loads of people you are sexually attracted to.  Deary me

Have to say it all seems to me that gays playing rugby is nothing more than the flirting before an all out orgy

Quote from: theskull1 on February 20, 2008, 12:50:02 PM


Have to say it all seems to me that gays playing rugby is nothing more than the flirting before an all out orgy

A bit like sheep sheering for culchies?  ;)

Quote from: Sky Blue on February 20, 2008, 12:51:52 PM

Quote from: theskull1 on February 20, 2008, 12:50:02 PM


Have to say it all seems to me that gays playing rugby is nothing more than the flirting before an all out orgy

A bit like sheep sheering for culchies?  ;)

Looking forward to the Queen's visit, you Jackeens? ;)

"If you can have a womans rugby team, why not a gay one? "

Are you saying that all female rugby players are lesbiennes :P

Quote from: red hander on February 20, 2008, 01:05:51 PM

Quote from: Sky Blue on February 20, 2008, 12:51:52 PM

Quote from: theskull1 on February 20, 2008, 12:50:02 PM


Have to say it all seems to me that gays playing rugby is nothing more than the flirting before an all out orgy

A bit like sheep sheering for culchies?  ;)

Looking forward to the Queen's visit, you Jackeens? ;)

Ah jaysus Red Hander, the sheep shearer thing was funny. You have to come up with something better as a comeback  ;)

Why cant we have mixed sex rugby?....*pause for thought* .... *smiles*.....  oh, well, maybe not.

Quote from: theskull1 on February 20, 2008, 12:50:02 PM
Can youse imagine what it would be like playing a full contact sport with loads of people you are sexually attracted to.  Deary me

That's like saying you walk into any ordinary bar and want to ride every woman in the place. 

Does that mean a farmer will shag every one of his sheep because they all look the same?

Quote from: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on February 20, 2008, 01:23:23 PM

Quote from: theskull1 on February 20, 2008, 12:50:02 PM
Can youse imagine what it would be like playing a full contact sport with loads of people you are sexually attracted to.  Deary me

That's like saying you walk into any ordinary bar and want to ride every woman in the place. 

Does that mean a farmer will shag every one of his sheep because they all look the same?

Only the durtiest looking ones.

Quote from: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on February 20, 2008, 01:23:23 PM
That's like saying you walk into any ordinary bar and want to ride every woman in the place. 
Does that mean a farmer will shag every one of his sheep because they all look the same?

Spot on, I remember there were strong rumours about a guy on a team I played with a few years back being gay (since proven untrue).
I said I couldnt give a f**k. One of the guys was shocked, saying "what about getting in the shower with him". I said "you should be ok, your an ugly f**ker!!"   ;D

there is a gay rugby team in Dublin too, Emerald Warriors they are called - we are playing them in a couple of weeks so I can let you guys know how it goes.

I wonder how hard they will be hitting the rucks :o

And just where have you been young man???

Dont think you can just waltz in here after almost two months out without an explanation!!!!

;)

Quote from: his holiness nb on February 20, 2008, 01:33:05 PM
And just where have you been young man???

Dont think you can just waltz in here after almost two months out without an explanation!!!!

;)

End of year reviews were coming up in work so decided to do a bit of work! ;)

Quote from: ziggysego on February 19, 2008, 09:19:04 PM
However, one of the team's founders, Declan Lavery, said everyone was welcome to join the club.

"When the club was set up it welcomed members regardless of their age, creed, religion, sexual orientation or whatever, and that's how it continues," Mr Lavery said.

"Yes, it was primarily something established as a vehicle for gay people but that doesn't mean somebody who isn't gay can't join, everyone is welcome."

I just cant understand this cnut Poots at all.
Does he like hearing his own voice?
Why doesnt he use them big lugs for listening rather than mouthing all the time?
Is it his objective to annoy as many people as possible?
The above statement clearly says anyone is welcome. Naturally gays would feel more at home playing with people of their own sexual orientation but it is not exclusive.
Can anyone be more blatant about being homophobic?

Quote from: Evil Genius on February 20, 2008, 12:37:29 PM

Quote from: his holiness nb on February 20, 2008, 10:00:48 AM
Good to see the efforts to bring the chinese guys into the fold at the NI game. From what I hear, they get a lot of racist abuse in certain areas up North, werent one group putting up posters giving out about "yellow people" coming here a year or so back? Cant remember who it was, or which "side" before we get into a "you lot are more racist that our lot debate.

Tbh, whilst there is a great degree of racism in NI generally, soccer can only do what it can do. As such, I am proud that they not only support and actively encourage participation between the two "main" communities in NI, but they also do a hell of a lot of work with e.g. disabled and homeless football, women and girls, immigrant groups and cross-border games etc, as well as the Chinese team, which latter I know has been especially well received by NI's Chinese community.

http://www.irishfa.com/grassroots/womens-development/
http://www.irishfa.com/grassroots/disability-football/
http://www.irishfa.com/grassroots/football-for-all/

Surely you mean 'begrudgingly tolerate'

That's like saying you walk into any ordinary bar and want to ride every woman in the place. 
Fiodoir
..and your problem is?  I took one there for Laoislad and the guys!

Quote from: feetofflames on February 20, 2008, 02:30:03 PM
That's like saying you walk into any ordinary bar and want to ride every woman in the place. 
Fiodoir
..and your problem is?  I took one there for Laoislad and the guys!

:D :D :D :D :D

There's a mighty difference between wanting to ride them all and getting even a once over off any of them.

Quote from: saffron sam2 on February 20, 2008, 02:03:48 PM

Quote from: Evil Genius on February 20, 2008, 12:37:29 PM

Quote from: his holiness nb on February 20, 2008, 10:00:48 AM
Good to see the efforts to bring the chinese guys into the fold at the NI game. From what I hear, they get a lot of racist abuse in certain areas up North, werent one group putting up posters giving out about "yellow people" coming here a year or so back? Cant remember who it was, or which "side" before we get into a "you lot are more racist that our lot debate.

Tbh, whilst there is a great degree of racism in NI generally, soccer can only do what it can do. As such, I am proud that they not only support and actively encourage participation between the two "main" communities in NI, but they also do a hell of a lot of work with e.g. disabled and homeless football, women and girls, immigrant groups and cross-border games etc, as well as the Chinese team, which latter I know has been especially well received by NI's Chinese community.

http://www.irishfa.com/grassroots/womens-development/
http://www.irishfa.com/grassroots/disability-football/
http://www.irishfa.com/grassroots/football-for-all/

Surely you mean 'begrudgingly tolerate'

No, I mean "actively encourage", as evidenced by the links I gave. I can quite easily cite any other amount of evidence to demonstrate the commitment, at both official and unofficial level, of soccer in NI to try and integrate and share. Of course, such a commitment is not completely uniform or consistent throughout every corner of the sport - this is NI, after all - but I have absolutely no doubt that it is the orthodox, with the naysayers being in a small and ultimately declining minority.

As such, I will happily engage in debate with those who try to deny what is evident to all reasonable observers, especially when those who would deny it are adherents of a sport which has failed utterly to draw even the most token of representation and participation from across the divide in NI throughout its entire history.

Quote from: Evil Genius on February 20, 2008, 04:30:34 PM
As such, I will happily engage in debate with those who try to deny what is evident to all reasonable observers, especially when those who would deny it are adherents of a sport which has failed utterly to draw even the most token of representation and participation from across the divide in NI throughout its entire history.

EG, you seem happy to boast about how the IFA are encouraging foreigners, women etc into the fold,which I have commended, at the same time you mention how the GAA fails to draw people from the Unionist community in. Surely you will acknowledge this is the only group which may have a problem in joining with the GAA, and that the GAA has been quite succesful in actively encouraging people from all nationalities and religions (outside of one group) into the fold in recent years?

Now lets not turn this into another "why wont the GAA change to welcome the Unionists in" thread, after all this is a thread about a Unionist politicians homophobia.
But you could at least acknowledge this aspect, in the same way I did without resorting to pointing out some of the many flaws in the IFA?

I see it's notjust the DUP that are bigots  ::)

Quote from: his holiness nb on February 20, 2008, 04:51:16 PM

Quote from: Evil Genius on February 20, 2008, 04:30:34 PM
As such, I will happily engage in debate with those who try to deny what is evident to all reasonable observers, especially when those who would deny it are adherents of a sport which has failed utterly to draw even the most token of representation and participation from across the divide in NI throughout its entire history.

EG, you seem happy to boast about how the IFA are encouraging foreigners, women etc into the fold,which I have commended, at the same time you mention how the GAA fails to draw people from the Unionist community in. Surely you will acknowledge this is the only group which may have a problem in joining with the GAA, and that the GAA has been quite succesful in actively encouraging people from all nationalities and religions (outside of one group) into the fold in recent years?

Now lets not turn this into another "why wont the GAA change to welcome the Unionists in" thread, after all this is a thread about a Unionist politicians homophobia.
But you could at least acknowledge this aspect, in the same way I did without resorting to pointing out some of the many flaws in the IFA?

I'm not "boasting" about anything, since merely 'doing the right thing' does not merit it. However, I am proud to point out that the Football For All ethos which Saffron Sam claimed was only "begrudgingly tolerated" by the IFA is, in fact, "actively encouraged" (if not yet perfect). Moreover, I pointed to clear evidence of this and offered to augment this with further evidence, if need be. (Such evidence is available from any number of reputable, authoritative and independent sources, btw)

As Kenny Archer once famously pointed out in his column in the Irish News: "Those who wish to live in the past and apply outdated labels to all Northern Ireland fans are the real bigots."

As for the efforts of the GAA to attract all sorts of minorities to its games, such as immigrants, ethnic minorities etc, I am more than happy to acknowledge this. Nonetheless, the comparatively recent success of attracting e.g. a few Nigerian GAA footballers in Dublin, or some Polish Hurlers in Tipperary (or whatever), whilst welcome, hardly makes up for the much greater and continuing failure to reach out in any way to the million or so of their fellow Irish men and women who have shared this island since before the GAA even existed.

Indeed, if my sport (soccer) failed equally to attract support and participation from all the main communities in NI on anything like so stark a scale, I would be ashamed. None of which should necessarily be a stick with which to beat the GAA - it is only, as I said, the right thing in itself. But I must confess to finding it hard to take such utterly unfair and unreasonable criticism from someone (Saffron Sam) whose own preferred sport is so flawed, to a much greater degree.

Indeed, as what is no doubt Mr. Poots's favourite book asks: "And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"

P.S. How we got to this point was as a direct response to Poots's unsupportable (imo) claim that there can be no more place for a Gay sports team than there can for e.g. a Chinese one, I and others pointed out that the IFA supports just that, as part of its FFA ethos. I would have been quite happy to have left it there, had another poster not decided to cast scorn upon the sincerity of those efforts of the IFA and its supporters.

Quote from: Evil Genius on February 20, 2008, 06:19:15 PM
I am more than happy to acknowledge this. Nonetheless, the comparatively recent success of attracting e.g. a few Nigerian GAA footballers in Dublin, or some Polish Hurlers in Tipperary (or whatever),

Eg you will find theres a bit more than "a few Nigerian GAA footballers in Dublin, or some Polish Hurlers in Tipperary" playing our sports.

Was the "or whatever" meant to cover all the rest?  ;)

As per my last post "Now lets not turn this into another "why wont the GAA change to welcome the Unionists in" thread" I wont comment on the rest of your post.
I'm sure you will understand.

Quote from: Evil Genius on February 20, 2008, 04:30:34 PM
As such, I will happily engage in debate with those who try to deny what is evident to all reasonable observers, especially when those who would deny it are adherents of a sport which has failed utterly to draw even the most token of representation and participation from across the divide in NI throughout its entire history.

EG,

Whilst accepting that the GAA could still do more to attract unionists, how much of this "failure" is attributable to closed minds in the unionist community?

For example, how many state schools in NI offer gaelic games?
How many state schools had the grace to even to reply to overtures to encourage gaelic games to be played there?
How many unionist controlled councils refused to provide GAA pitches?
We still have the ridiculous situation where out of 662 council-owned pitches; just 59 are set aside for Gaelic games. The rest are used for rugby and soccer.

Face facts, no matter what the GAA does on the cross-community front, it will face huge prejudice.
Its not all the GAA's fault big lad.

Unfortunately, once again, entirely predictably we have, not one, but two posts from EG brim filled with whataboutery, selective quoting, assinine assumptions, crass generalisations, extrapolations and shouting bigot as loudly as possible.

I will however try to pick through the bones of what he has written.

Quote from: Evil Genius on February 20, 2008, 04:30:34 PM
As such, I will happily engage in debate with those who try to deny what is evident to all reasonable observers, especially when those who would deny it are adherents of a sport which has failed utterly to draw even the most token of representation and participation from across the divide in NI throughout its entire history.

Quote from: Evil GeniusIndeed, if my sport (soccer) failed equally to attract support and participation from all the main communities in NI on anything like so stark a scale, I would be ashamed. None of which should necessarily be a stick with which to beat the GAA - it is only, as I said, the right thing in itself. But I must confess to finding it hard to take such utterly unfair and unreasonable criticism from someone (Saffron Sam) whose own preferred sport is so flawed, to a much greater degree.

Altogether now, to the tune of Stand up for the Ulstermen

What about the GAA?
What about the GAA?
What about the GAA?
What about the GAA?
What about the GAA?

Quote from: Evil GeniusAs Kenny Archer once famously pointed out in his column in the Irish News: "Those who wish to live in the past and apply outdated labels to all Northern Ireland fans are the real bigots."

He did indeed, but nowhere in any of my posts have I labelled all NI as bigots. I would suggest, based on their posts here that nifan, Chrisowc, MW, gawa316 and SBE Tim are not bigots. I have absolutely no problems however labelling you as a bigot.

You will also no doubt be aware of the equally famous (in some quarters anyway) of the Kenny Archer column where he took to task a spokesperson for ANISC who claimed that something as blindingly obvious (to the reasonable folk away) as changing the anthem played at NI matches would set back any progress made by FFA. A fragile thing this FFA.

Quote from: Evil GeniusIndeed, if my sport (soccer) failed equally to attract support and participation from all the main communities in NI on anything like so stark a scale, I would be ashamed. None of which should necessarily be a stick with which to beat the GAA - it is only, as I said, the right thing in itself. But I must confess to finding it hard to take such utterly unfair and unreasonable criticism from someone (Saffron Sam) whose own preferred sport is so flawed, to a much greater degree.

You make quite silly little assumptions here. What do you know about my preferred sport? Because I post on a gaa based message board, Gaelic sports must be my preferred sports?

I haven't played a game of Gaelic football in the last ten years - I played a game of soccer as recently as last Saturday (a 1-1 draw by the way).
I am not a member of any GAA club - I am the secretary of a soccer club.
I can describe the changing rooms at most Irish league grounds - I have never even made it into the changing rooms at Casement Park.
Our school fields teams in six sports - I am only involved in one of the six. I'll let you guess which one.
When you started the infamous "NISFA picks Fenians" (I paraphrase) thread, you will have noticed then that only 11 out of the twelve Belfast places on the committee had been taken up. Have a guess at who was supposed to be the 12th man?

I will let the reasonable posters out there decide what my preferred sport may be.

I will base any posts about the IFA / soccer on either my own experiences from having been involved in soccer at various levels over the past twenty years or from verifiable sources. I believe that there is a will in some people to change, but I don't think that it is particularly widespread. I don't think for example (and I now I am going back a bit) that those whose jealously guarded Linfield's anti-Catholic policy for years suddenly changed ther attitudes overnight. I don't believe that those clubs who consistently and persistently voted against DC and Lurgan Celtic coming into the B division have had Damascus like conversions to reasonable people as a result of the vote*. I too could go on with many, many more examples, but what is the point?

* Interstingly, both these disgraceful practices have in the past on a previous incarnation of this board been condoned by as 'reasonable' a poster as SammyG.

I will on this and indeed any future occasion decline your invite for a debate, because you are not capable of rational, reasonable debate. I could save you some time and actually write your reply to this post if you want, so predictable will it be?

Quote from: saffron sam2 on February 21, 2008, 08:41:29 AMI will base any posts about the IFA / soccer on either my own experiences from having been involved in soccer at various levels over the past twenty years or from verifiable sources. I believe that there is a will in some people to change, but I don't think that it is particularly widespread. I don't think for example (and I now I am going back a bit) that those whose jealously guarded Linfield's anti-Catholic policy for years suddenly changed ther attitudes overnight. I don't believe that those clubs who consistently and persistently voted against DC and Lurgan Celtic coming into the B division have had Damascus like conversions to reasonable people as a result of the vote*. I too could go on with many, many more examples, but what is the point?

* Interstingly, both these disgraceful practices have in the past on a previous incarnation of this board been condoned by as 'reasonable' a poster as SammyG.

Sorry but I think you're having another one of your 'senior' moments. I very rarely comment on Irish League matters (as I have little interest and even less knowledge of the internal workings) and have never defended Linfield over anything, nevermind there 'anti-Catholic policy' (to use your shorthand).

As usual you take two and two and add them together to get bigot.

Quote from: SammyG on February 21, 2008, 09:20:31 AM

Quote from: saffron sam2 on February 21, 2008, 08:41:29 AMI will base any posts about the IFA / soccer on either my own experiences from having been involved in soccer at various levels over the past twenty years or from verifiable sources. I believe that there is a will in some people to change, but I don't think that it is particularly widespread. I don't think for example (and I now I am going back a bit) that those whose jealously guarded Linfield's anti-Catholic policy for years suddenly changed ther attitudes overnight. I don't believe that those clubs who consistently and persistently voted against DC and Lurgan Celtic coming into the B division have had Damascus like conversions to reasonable people as a result of the vote*. I too could go on with many, many more examples, but what is the point?

* Interstingly, both these disgraceful practices have in the past on a previous incarnation of this board been condoned by as 'reasonable' a poster as SammyG.

Sorry but I think you're having another one of your 'senior' moments. I very rarely comment on Irish League matters (as I have little interest and even less knowledge of the internal workings) and have never defended Linfield over anything, nevermind there 'anti-Catholic policy' (to use your shorthand).

As usual you take two and two and add them together to get bigot.

Unfortunately on this occasion, I have been unable to provide the evidence because your post is lost somewhere in hyperspace. You did in fact defend the policy on the grounds that it was an unwritten rule and therefore ok. As you did with the exclusion of DC and LC (security reasons, I believe was the defence). Feel free if you have the time to try to locate the posts. I don't at this time, but you're better not pursuing this matter.

In most cases two and two does indeed make four.

Quote from: saffron sam2 on February 21, 2008, 09:35:51 AM

Quote from: SammyG on February 21, 2008, 09:20:31 AM

Quote from: saffron sam2 on February 21, 2008, 08:41:29 AMI will base any posts about the IFA / soccer on either my own experiences from having been involved in soccer at various levels over the past twenty years or from verifiable sources. I believe that there is a will in some people to change, but I don't think that it is particularly widespread. I don't think for example (and I now I am going back a bit) that those whose jealously guarded Linfield's anti-Catholic policy for years suddenly changed ther attitudes overnight. I don't believe that those clubs who consistently and persistently voted against DC and Lurgan Celtic coming into the B division have had Damascus like conversions to reasonable people as a result of the vote*. I too could go on with many, many more examples, but what is the point?

* Interstingly, both these disgraceful practices have in the past on a previous incarnation of this board been condoned by as 'reasonable' a poster as SammyG.

Sorry but I think you're having another one of your 'senior' moments. I very rarely comment on Irish League matters (as I have little interest and even less knowledge of the internal workings) and have never defended Linfield over anything, nevermind there 'anti-Catholic policy' (to use your shorthand).

As usual you take two and two and add them together to get bigot.

Unfortunately on this occasion, I have been unable to provide the evidence because your post is lost somewhere in hyperspace. You did in fact defend the policy on the grounds that it was an unwritten rule and therefore ok. As you did with the exclusion of DC and LC (security reasons, I believe was the defence). Feel free if you have the time to try to locate the posts. I don't at this time, but you're better not pursuing this matter.

In most cases two and two does indeed make four.

Sorry are you now saying that some time ago, I said that the Linfield rule was unwritten (which is true although I don't remember saying it) or that DC were excluded on security grounds (again true and again I don't remember saying it) and those two things mean that I support the policy and am a bigot.

Ok right got that.  ::)

Sam, look at Sammys last few posts in the Long Kesh thread. He is clearly a WUM. I wouldnt worry about him.

Luckily there are a few guys from OWC who are capable of intelligent and reasoned debate on here. Hats tipped to Nifan and chris. And to a lesser extent EG.

The funny thing is Sammy is a mod on OWC, you would think he would be more careful with what he says, rather than make an idiot out of himself repeatedly.
I've lost count how many times he has been caught out on here now and refused to backtrack.

Quote from: his holiness nb on February 21, 2008, 09:52:47 AM
Sam, look at Sammys last few posts in the Long Kesh thread. He is clearly a WUM. I wouldnt worry about him.

Luckily there are a few guys from OWC who are capable of intelligent and reasoned debate on here. Hats tipped to Nifan and chris. And to a lesser extent EG.

The funny thing is Sammy is a mod on OWC, you would think he would be more careful with what he says, rather than make an idiot out of himself repeatedly.
I've lost count how many times he has been caught out on here now and refused to backtrack.

Pot and kettle.

Jaysus Holiness, you need to go back on the fags.

Quote from: SammyG on February 21, 2008, 09:39:25 AM
Sorry are you now saying that some time ago, I said that the Linfield rule was unwritten (which is true although I don't remember saying it) or that DC were excluded on security grounds (again true and again I don't remember saying it) and those two things mean that I support the policy and am a bigot.

Ok right got that.  ::)

No, you don't get it. You said that the Linfield rule / practice was ok because it was unwritten; you didn't simply state that it was unwritten.
Nor is it true to say that DC was excluded on security grounds. DC were excluded by votes taken by the then B Division teams*. To try to hide this behind 'security grounds' is not the action of reasonable man.

* The RUC club was one that voted consistently in favour of DC being admitted to the B Division. How's that for security?

Hopefully, you have got that now. :)

Quote from: AZOffaly on February 21, 2008, 09:55:37 AM
Jaysus Holiness, you need to go back on the fags.

:D :D :D

AZ, if you read the Long Kesh thread and the last few pages between myself and Sammy, you will understand.

I dont beleive Sammy is that stupid.

Quote from: SammyG on February 21, 2008, 09:54:18 AM

Quote from: his holiness nb on February 21, 2008, 09:52:47 AM
Sam, look at Sammys last few posts in the Long Kesh thread. He is clearly a WUM. I wouldnt worry about him.

Luckily there are a few guys from OWC who are capable of intelligent and reasoned debate on here. Hats tipped to Nifan and chris. And to a lesser extent EG.

The funny thing is Sammy is a mod on OWC, you would think he would be more careful with what he says, rather than make an idiot out of himself repeatedly.
I've lost count how many times he has been caught out on here now and refused to backtrack.

Pot and kettle.

I've apologised / retracted statements a few times before when I have gotten something wrong Sammy.
You seem incapable, as if you see it as some sign of weakness. Its not.

Quote from: his holiness nb on February 21, 2008, 10:17:18 AM


I've apologised / retracted statements a few times before when I have gotten something wrong Sammy.
You seem incapable, as if you see it as some sign of weakness. Its not.

I'm away on holiday, so wont be near the site for 2 weeks, so who cares.

You are by a mile the worst culprit [Edited by Mod 3] Weakness? Hilarious.

See you all in 10 days or whatever the mods decide is appropriate to protect the precious holiness.

Quote from: dublinfella on February 21, 2008, 10:37:43 AM

Quote from: his holiness nb on February 21, 2008, 10:17:18 AM


I've apologised / retracted statements a few times before when I have gotten something wrong Sammy.
You seem incapable, as if you see it as some sign of weakness. Its not.

I'm away on holiday, so wont be near the site for 2 weeks, so who cares.

You are by a mile the worst culprit [Mod 3]. Weakness? Hilarious.

See you all in 10 days or whatever the mods decide is appropriate to protect the precious holiness.

Have a good holiday. It's 15 days this time by the way. (rule 9 - Third offence).

Granted lads there is a gay rugby team set up. I wasn't aware until reading the posts that the founding member claims it is open to anyone (and i am still on about the team  :D). However i don't see the reason why the Gay label should be put on the team. It is secregating the gay community and sending out a message that Gay people would prefer to be (how can i put this that it won't sound funny) Playing with each other  :D ( It didn't work). So they are actually contradicting themselves. Gay activist groups would claim they are being astrocised from society by other groups, this time it is actually them that are secluding themselves from the rest of society.
     
    I do also realise that Poots and the DUP are very bigoted when it comes to issues like this. Kind of like my way or the highway type of thing. They share close links with the bible belt that exists in the southern American states. You have all seen them were things are run kind of like a huge family were no one is permitted to cross religious  barriers. Poots needs to grow up and show an open minded approach. His personal beliefs should not influence any ministerial decisions he makes about the community.

Quote from: dublinfella on February 21, 2008, 10:37:43 AM

Quote from: his holiness nb on February 21, 2008, 10:17:18 AM


I've apologised / retracted statements a few times before when I have gotten something wrong Sammy.
You seem incapable, as if you see it as some sign of weakness. Its not.

I'm away on holiday, so wont be near the site for 2 weeks, so who cares.

You are by a mile the worst culprit [Edited by Mod 3] Weakness? Hilarious.

See you all in 10 days or whatever the mods decide is appropriate to protect the precious holiness.

Don't forget to take your ball beachball with u, mind ur arse on de way out  ;D

Quote from: saffron sam2 on February 21, 2008, 08:41:29 AM
Unfortunately, once again, entirely predictably we have, not one, but two posts from EG brim filled with whataboutery, selective quoting, assinine assumptions, crass generalisations, extrapolations and shouting bigot as loudly as possible.

You misunderstand the correct meaning of "Whataboutery". Nowhere have I tried to deny or defend the shortcomings of my own sport by pointing to the shortcomings (even where greater) of some other sport. Rather, I have tried to point to the double standards of someone accusing one sport (soccer) of failings which infect another sport (GAA) which he also espouses.

As for "selective quotations" - of course I have selected quotations to support my argument! The point is whether I have ignored other quotations etc which are inconvenient. And on this point, I think I can claim it is not my style to run away from difficult issues, or pretend they don't exist.

And let's have some evidence of "assinine assumptions" or "crass generalisations" in either of my last two posts. Ditto "extrapolations".

And as for "shouting bigot as loudly as possible" - the only reference I can recall was a (carefully selected!) quotation by Kenny Archer where HE denounced a certain type of critic as being bigoted.

Quote from: saffron sam2 on February 21, 2008, 08:41:29 AM

Quote from: Evil Genius on February 20, 2008, 04:30:34 PM
As such, I will happily engage in debate with those who try to deny what is evident to all reasonable observers, especially when those who would deny it are adherents of a sport which has failed utterly to draw even the most token of representation and participation from across the divide in NI throughout its entire history.

Quote from: Evil GeniusIndeed, if my sport (soccer) failed equally to attract support and participation from all the main communities in NI on anything like so stark a scale, I would be ashamed. None of which should necessarily be a stick with which to beat the GAA - it is only, as I said, the right thing in itself. But I must confess to finding it hard to take such utterly unfair and unreasonable criticism from someone (Saffron Sam) whose own preferred sport is so flawed, to a much greater degree.

If you consider your preferred sport to be soccer, then fair enough, I will happily concede that particular point. Can I assume, however, that on the basis of your moniker and many of your posts in the other sections of the Board, it is still reasonable to describe you as also being an "adherent" of GAA sports? (About which, more below)

Quote from: saffron sam2 on February 21, 2008, 08:41:29 AM

Quote from: Evil GeniusAs Kenny Archer once famously pointed out in his column in the Irish News: "Those who wish to live in the past and apply outdated labels to all Northern Ireland fans are the real bigots."

He did indeed, but nowhere in any of my posts have I labelled all NI as bigots. I would suggest, based on their posts here that nifan, Chrisowc, MW, gawa316 and SBE Tim are not bigots. I have absolutely no problems however labelling you as a bigot.

You will also no doubt be aware of the equally famous (in some quarters anyway) of the Kenny Archer column where he took to task a spokesperson for ANISC who claimed that something as blindingly obvious (to the reasonable folk away) as changing the anthem played at NI matches would set back any progress made by FFA. A fragile thing this FFA.

You have no problem labelling me as a Bigot. Fair enough, but I've news for you: I couldn't care less whether you do or don't - and certainly not enough to run to the Mods to "tout" you, as certain individuals on this Board are wont to do  ::) I'm sure people can make up their own minds without your help (or mine).

As for the other Archer point (Amalgamation spokesman), I'm not familiar with the exact reference, but can I assume that the spokesman's argument was along the lines "If you make an issue of the anthem and withdraw it, that will only cause more trouble by hardening the determination of the extremists to maintain it"? If so, I personally think it a weak argument. On which point, I have consistently posted hereabouts that I would like to see GSTQ replaced by a distinctively Norn Iron tune and we should face down those who would keep GSTQ. In which case, your citing Archer on this point in reply to me adds nothing to your argument, indeed is utterly irrelevant, since I am on his side on this issue.  :o

Quote from: saffron sam2 on February 21, 2008, 08:41:29 AM

Quote from: Evil GeniusIndeed, if my sport (soccer) failed equally to attract support and participation from all the main communities in NI on anything like so stark a scale, I would be ashamed. None of which should necessarily be a stick with which to beat the GAA - it is only, as I said, the right thing in itself. But I must confess to finding it hard to take such utterly unfair and unreasonable criticism from someone (Saffron Sam) whose own preferred sport is so flawed, to a much greater degree.

You make quite silly little assumptions here. What do you know about my preferred sport? Because I post on a gaa based message board, Gaelic sports must be my preferred sports?

I haven't played a game of Gaelic football in the last ten years - I played a game of soccer as recently as last Saturday (a 1-1 draw by the way).
I am not a member of any GAA club - I am the secretary of a soccer club.
I can describe the changing rooms at most Irish league grounds - I have never even made it into the changing rooms at Casement Park.
Our school fields teams in six sports - I am only involved in one of the six. I'll let you guess which one.
When you started the infamous "NISFA picks Fenians" (I paraphrase) thread, you will have noticed then that only 11 out of the twelve Belfast places on the committee had been taken up. Have a guess at who was supposed to be the 12th man?

I will let the reasonable posters out there decide what my preferred sport may be.

Fine. You prefer soccer over GAA. Further, when you have had bad experiences in soccer, you have condemned those. I have no problems with either, indeed I sincerely regret any discrimination which you have faced. However, unless you can demonstrate your equivalent or greater outrage at the equivalent or greater problems which GAA, your other sport, experiences in its relations with the Unionist community, then your criticisms of soccer are less credible, since they appear to be from someone who espouses double standards. Note: I say "appear", since i couldn't be arsed going through all your posts. Therefore, if you can demonstrate your equivalent anger/dismay/outrage etc over the GAA's chronic failure throughout its entire history to reach out to 1 million Irish people of a Unionist persuasion, or its unworthy, even outrageous practices in certain areas, then I will happily concede.

Quote from: saffron sam2 on February 21, 2008, 08:41:29 AM
I will base any posts about the IFA / soccer on either my own experiences from having been involved in soccer at various levels over the past twenty years or from verifiable sources. I believe that there is a will in some people to change, but I don't think that it is particularly widespread. I don't think for example (and I now I am going back a bit) that those whose jealously guarded Linfield's anti-Catholic policy for years suddenly changed ther attitudes overnight. I don't believe that those clubs who consistently and persistently voted against DC and Lurgan Celtic coming into the B division have had Damascus like conversions to reasonable people as a result of the vote*. I too could go on with many, many more examples, but what is the point?

How curious your choice of examples to back up your case - Linfield's former policy on Catholics and DC's previous exclusion from the B Division. Now on these points, I have never denied/condoned/defended such prejudice. And I daresay you are correct that those peope who held those prejudices will likely still hold them (in so far as they are still to be had). But how curious that you should ignore the more recent developments which have hugely transformed the situation. These days, there is no religious bar to who LFC picks - indeed, afaik there have been times when RC's have been in a majority on the team, including under idolised captains like Pat "Billy" Fenlon (a Dub, no less!). And that's before we ackowledge the "True Blue" campaign at Windsor, or the Dunfield project with Dundalk, or the excellent relations engendered both with Derry City and clubs across the border in the Setanta.
As for Donegal Celtic, assuming they were excluded from the old B Division for the reasons you imply, that is disgraceful. But can you not even acknowledge that that was 180 degrees contrary to their recent admission to the Carnegie Premier League, despite their ground being clearly not up to the standard required of other clubs?
The point surely must be that even if they haven't gone away completely, the bigots and neanderthals you cite no longer hold sway in NI soccer anything like the way they once did. And your harping on about past grievances, since rectified, is as unreasonable, indeed prejudiced, as e.g. slamming modern day Germany on the basis that a rump of neo-Nazis still exists within that country.

Quote from: saffron sam2 on February 21, 2008, 08:41:29 AM
* Interstingly, both these disgraceful practices have in the past on a previous incarnation of this board been condoned by as 'reasonable' a poster as SammyG.

Why do you, the person who started your post with accusations against me of "whataboutery", "assinine assumptions", "crass generalisations" and "extrapolations" etc bring SammyG into your reply to me? I am not Sammy, he does not speak for me, nor me for him; he is quite capable of speaking for himself.  "Physician Heal Thyself" ::)

Quote from: saffron sam2 on February 21, 2008, 08:41:29 AM
I will on this and indeed any future occasion decline your invite for a debate, because you are not capable of rational, reasonable debate. I could save you some time and actually write your reply to this post if you want, so predictable will it be?

Mind you don't fall from your high horse, there.... :D

Quote from: winsamsoon on February 21, 2008, 11:52:05 AM
Granted lads there is a gay rugby team set up. I wasn't aware until reading the posts that the founding member claims it is open to anyone (and i am still on about the team  :D). However i don't see the reason why the Gay label should be put on the team. It is secregating the gay community and sending out a message that Gay people would prefer to be (how can i put this that it won't sound funny) Playing with each other  :D ( It didn't work). So they are actually contradicting themselves. Gay activist groups would claim they are being astrocised from society by other groups, this time it is actually them that are secluding themselves from the rest of society.

Notwithstanding that the "Gay label" is probably more an invention of others - esp the media - I think you miss the point of this team and its ethos. Team sports like rugby are notoriously homophobic. Therefore, any gays who might be interested in taking up the game are liable to be deterred. All this team seems to me to be saying is that if you should be gay and want to play rugby, then come along and join us, since we don't give a damn. Equally, we don't give a damn if you're straight.

Which is only the way it should be, imo.

Quote from: Evil Genius on February 21, 2008, 01:04:22 PM
and certainly not enough to run to the Mods to "tout" you, as certain individuals on this Board are wont to do  ::)

Off topic I know, but is there a function on here to see who reports what to the mods?
I see a few people have made comments like the above.

Just interested, I've been acccused myself previously of running to the mods on occasions where I actaully didnt.
Was just curious.

Incidentally I agree fully with your last post. Well said.

Quote from: Evil Genius on February 21, 2008, 01:11:51 PM

Quote from: winsamsoon on February 21, 2008, 11:52:05 AM
Granted lads there is a gay rugby team set up. I wasn't aware until reading the posts that the founding member claims it is open to anyone (and i am still on about the team  :D). However i don't see the reason why the Gay label should be put on the team. It is secregating the gay community and sending out a message that Gay people would prefer to be (how can i put this that it won't sound funny) Playing with each other  :D ( It didn't work). So they are actually contradicting themselves. Gay activist groups would claim they are being astrocised from society by other groups, this time it is actually them that are secluding themselves from the rest of society.

Notwithstanding that the "Gay label" is probably more an invention of others - esp the media - I think you miss the point of this team and its ethos. Team sports like rugby are notoriously homophobic. Therefore, any gays who might be interested in taking up the game are liable to be deterred. All this team seems to me to be saying is that if you should be gay and want to play rugby, then come along and join us, since we don't give a damn. Equally, we don't give a damn if you're straight.

Which is only the way it should be, imo.

Seems fair enough to me.

Why does something so basic have to be made a headline of in the North, when the gay rugby team was setup in Dublin i don't even remember it getting a mention. sure they are even hosting the gay world cup in Dublin and not a mention!

It should be interesting when we play them in a few weeks tho!

Quote from: Tankie on February 21, 2008, 01:45:15 PM
Why does something so basic have to be made a headline of in the North, when the gay rugby team was setup in Dublin i don't even remember it getting a mention. sure they are even hosting the gay world cup in Dublin and not a mention!

It should be interesting when we play them in a few weeks tho!

In fairness Tankie, the story is more about a well known politician objecting to the team.

I reckon the story is more so to show up the homphobia of Mr Poots than to have a go at the team itself.

If a well know politicial down here said the same about the Dublin team we would be having the same discussion.

Quote from: his holiness nb on February 21, 2008, 01:25:19 PM

Quote from: Evil Genius on February 21, 2008, 01:04:22 PM
and certainly not enough to run to the Mods to "tout" you, as certain individuals on this Board are wont to do  ::)

Off topic I know, but is there a function on here to see who reports what to the mods?
I see a few people have made comments like the above.

Just interested, I've been acccused myself previously of running to the mods on occasions where I actaully didnt.
Was just curious.

Incidentally I agree fully with your last post. Well said.

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D You really are something!

Quote from: Bar None on February 21, 2008, 02:15:10 PM

Just interested, I've been acccused myself previously of running to the mods on occasions where I actaully didnt.
Was just curious.

Incidentally I agree fully with your last post. Well said.

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D You really are something!
[/quote]

??
Snowed Under I can only presume you have evidence to the contrary by that statement?

Quote from: his holiness nb on February 21, 2008, 02:18:56 PM

Quote from: Bar None on February 21, 2008, 02:15:10 PM

Just interested, I've been acccused myself previously of running to the mods on occasions where I actaully didnt.
Was just curious.

Incidentally I agree fully with your last post. Well said.

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D You really are something!

??
Snowed Under I can only presume you have evidence to the contrary by that statement?
[/quote]

You have an amazing ability to associate anyone new with Snowed Under, I have counted at least 6 posters you have the old mmmhh familiar thing going.  Tell me did you report them all.  ;)

Nope, and I havent reported you either, as you havent done anything wrong.

Thats said, its clear to all that snowed under has had several new usernames since his banning, all of which were subsequently banned (thank the mods for that, not me  ;) ) and I do beleive that you are his latest creation.

But as far as I know theres no rule against new usernames for previously banned posters, I could be wrong.

Quote from: Bar None on February 21, 2008, 02:22:29 PM

Quote from: his holiness nb on February 21, 2008, 02:18:56 PM

Quote from: Bar None on February 21, 2008, 02:15:10 PM

Just interested, I've been acccused myself previously of running to the mods on occasions where I actaully didnt.
Was just curious.

Incidentally I agree fully with your last post. Well said.

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D You really are something!

??
Snowed Under I can only presume you have evidence to the contrary by that statement?

You have an amazing ability to associate anyone new with Snowed Under, I have counted at least 6 posters you have the old mmmhh familiar thing going.  Tell me did you report them all.  ;)
[/quote]

Tell us, did u not get enough attention as a child or something???

Why do you ask that?

I think this conversation especially from you side bar none falls into the irrelevant catagory. Please try and stick to the topic without making personal attacks on people about silly things. I think there is some sort of system where you can report any forms of abuse or personal slander to the moderators and rightly so because i know this is a GAA chat board but a little thought must go into what we are saying otherwise it would be like MSN and we all know that it is for kids .

In all seriousness should questions not now be asked of Poots fitness for office in a similar vein to Ian Og?

He has twice insulted the GAA and gaels by refusing to respect our national anthem and by admonishing the GAA for not doing more to attract protestants (yet has not even raised the issue of the monoculturalism within the iFA) and also implied that David Humphreys was not selected for the Irish Rugby team for political reasons on live tv.

Quote from: T Fearon on February 21, 2008, 05:04:24 PM
and also implied that David Humphreys was not selected for the Irish Rugby team for political reasons on live tv.

In fairness he may never have seen him trying to tackle.............

/Jim.

Quote from: Evil Genius on February 21, 2008, 01:04:22 PM
You misunderstand the correct meaning of "Whataboutery". Nowhere have I tried to deny or defend the shortcomings of my own sport by pointing to the shortcomings (even where greater) of some other sport. Rather, I have tried to point to the double standards of someone accusing one sport (soccer) of failings which infect another sport (GAA) which he also espouses.

So when I make a comment about the IFA, it is only valid if I come up with a similar example from the GAA. Otherwise I am guilty of double standards. OK, that simple. A few points however:

1. By way of reasonableness and to prove that I don't espouse double standards, I would like to pose the following question. If a life-long Linfield and NI supporter were to write an epistle to the local press entitled "GAA - Congress of Shame", without referring to the failings which infest his chosen sport, would he too be guilty of double standards?

2. I don't believe that any organisation should set its standards based on those set by others. Therefore the GAA is wholly irrelevant when the standards of the IFA are being discussed. I brought the IFA into this thread to highlight Poots' hypocrisy. If I have any further points to make about a sporting organisation, I will make them without recourse to the behaviour and practices of other organisations.

3. Your point here seems to be at odds with this poster from the Darren Graham thread. You guess the poster

QuoteAnyhow, this is a GAA thread; if you want to discuss the situation facing soccer, it would be better either to open a separate thread, or borrow any one of Fatboy Fearon's myriad interventions

QuoteAnd this has exactly what to do with Darren Graham and the GAA?

QuoteAnd this has exactly what to do with Darren Graham and the GAA?

QuoteThis is a thread about the GAA, in the context of the Graham affair. The Juice asked me my opinion on the GAA playing the SS and flying the Tricolour at its games and I replied strictly on those lines.

The arrangements for soccer have no place in this discussion, indeed, they serve only to sidetrack this thread down the usual "Yah, Boo, Sucks, Themmuns started it" line.

I could go on past page 5 if you like.

Quote from: Evil Genius on February 21, 2008, 01:04:22 PM
As for "selective quotations" - of course I have selected quotations to support my argument! The point is whether I have ignored other quotations etc which are inconvenient. And on this point, I think I can claim it is not my style to run away from difficult issues, or pretend they don't exist.

And let's have some evidence of "asinine assumptions" or "crass generalisations" in either of my last two posts. Ditto "extrapolations".

And as for "shouting bigot as loudly as possible" - the only reference I can recall was a (carefully selected!) quotation by Kenny Archer where HE denounced a certain type of critic as being bigoted.

You included a quotation that I find it difficult to identify any relevance. Why did you include it? Nowhere has anyone on this thread disagreed with what Archer has said - therefore the quotation is irrelevant. If you are trying to extrapolate from Archer's post that I am bigot, why not just say it?
I mentioned another quote from Kenny Archer (a more contemporary one at that), which gives a differing view of NI supporters. In the interests of balanced debate, obviously.

Quote from: Evil Genius on February 21, 2008, 01:04:22 PM
If you consider your preferred sport to be soccer, then fair enough, I will happily concede that particular point. Can I assume, however, that on the basis of your moniker and many of your posts in the other sections of the Board, it is still reasonable to describe you as also being an "adherent" of GAA sports? (About which, more below)

Based on my moniker, assume no such thing my good man. Based on your moniker, some would assume you are both Evil and a Genius, when it is quite clear from your posts you are neither (unless that it the whole genius behind it?). There are many possible reasons for the choice of my moniker; I may be a fan of Republica and my name could be in homage to the lead singer; I may have an irrational attraction to the spice; it may have been the colour of kilt my piping ancestors wore during their army days; it may even be an acronym; it may be a clever disguise to put people off my real identity. So assume nothing.

However, if by your choice of the word 'adherent' you mean member, then yes I was a member of a GAA club for many years (and a second for a short period of time). At no stage was I asked to sign any membership form agreeing to what is included in the official guide. In fact, the first time I saw the official guide was when it was posted here by an owcer. I was shocked when I realised that I had used paper that wasn't manufactured in Ireland and that I had once bought trophies that bore the legend "Made In China". Will I go to hell? In short, I have never been asked to adhere to anything that is included in the official guide and replicated here every time someone needs a reason not to join the GAA.

As an aside, the two GAA had a more balanced membership than any of the four soccer clubs I have been a member of. All of the soccer clubs were either mono-cultural or, by dint of my membership, multi-cultural. Both GAA clubs could easily be described as multi-cultural.

Quote from: Evil Genius on February 21, 2008, 01:04:22 PM
You have no problem labelling me as a Bigot. Fair enough, but I've news for you: I couldn't care less whether you do or don't - and certainly not enough to run to the Mods to "tout" you, as certain individuals on this Board are wont to do  ::) I'm sure people can make up their own minds without your help (or mine).

As for the other Archer point (Amalgamation spokesman), I'm not familiar with the exact reference, but can I assume that the spokesman's argument was along the lines "If you make an issue of the anthem and withdraw it, that will only cause more trouble by hardening the determination of the extremists to maintain it"? If so, I personally think it a weak argument. On which point, I have consistently posted hereabouts that I would like to see GSTQ replaced by a distinctively Norn Iron tune and we should face down those who would keep GSTQ. In which case, your citing Archer on this point in reply to me adds nothing to your argument, indeed is utterly irrelevant, since I am on his side on this issue.  :o

If you are referring to me as the tout, why not just say it. I didn't like your description of Tony Fearon and Billy Hutchinson as counterparts - I still don't. If I was really serious I would have followed the procedures laid out by the mods.  I won't be touting on anyone - I have no links to Sinn Fein.

The original quote I referred to was something along the lines of

Quote"The majority of fans would want to retain the national anthem. "I think if we bring in a new anthem it will set back 'Football for All' and what it has achieved. If the anthem is changed it will cause divisions within the fans and create a lot of embarrassment."

Others can decide the context in which it was made. Its relevance is discussed above.

As regards your support for the removal of a divisive anthem, what do you want for being in support of something so blindingly obvious? A medal?

Quote from: Evil Genius on February 21, 2008, 01:04:22 PM
Fine. You prefer soccer over GAA. Further, when you have had bad experiences in soccer, you have condemned those. I have no problems with either, indeed I sincerely regret any discrimination which you have faced. However, unless you can demonstrate your equivalent or greater outrage at the equivalent or greater problems which GAA, your other sport, experiences in its relations with the Unionist community, then your criticisms of soccer are less credible, since they appear to be from someone who espouses double standards. Note: I say "appear", since i couldn't be arsed going through all your posts. Therefore, if you can demonstrate your equivalent anger/dismay/outrage etc over the GAA's chronic failure throughout its entire history to reach out to 1 million Irish people of a Unionist persuasion, or its unworthy, even outrageous practices in certain areas, then I will happily concede.

A few more points with this:

1. I like many diverse sports, I wouldn't say I have a favourite one - it will depend on who is playing.

2. I note your regret which is commendable, but unless you are responsible for it you not feel the need to comment on the actions of others.

3. I have been entirely consistent with my points about the GAA. If there is anything you want to discuss please post it. I don't believe in rules of exclusion and have constantly argued on this board about many of the issues you are likely to raise. Feel free (if you get the time) to check this.

4. You are back at the double standards line again. My criticisms of soccer will be based purely on my experiences therein. Similarly, my praising of soccer will be based on my experiences of soccer and soccer alone. I don't think, again that standards of one organisation should be judged on those of another. Sort your own house out if you like.

Quote from: Evil Genius on February 21, 2008, 01:04:22 PM
How curious your choice of examples to back up your case - Linfield's former policy on Catholics and DC's previous exclusion from the B Division. Now on these points, I have never denied/condoned/defended such prejudice. And I daresay you are correct that those people who held those prejudices will likely still hold them (in so far as they are still to be had). But how curious that you should ignore the more recent developments which have hugely transformed the situation. These days, there is no religious bar to who LFC picks - indeed, afaik there have been times when RC's have been in a majority on the team, including under idolised captains like Pat "Billy" Fenlon (a Dub, no less!). And that's before we ackowledge the "True Blue" campaign at Windsor, or the Dunfield project with Dundalk, or the excellent relations engendered both with Derry City and clubs across the border in the Setanta.
As for Donegal Celtic, assuming they were excluded from the old B Division for the reasons you imply, that is disgraceful. But can you not even acknowledge that that was 180 degrees contrary to their recent admission to the Carnegie Premier League, despite their ground being clearly not up to the standard required of other clubs?
The point surely must be that even if they haven't gone away completely, the bigots and neanderthals you cite no longer hold sway in NI soccer anything like the way they once did. And your harping on about past grievances, since rectified, is as unreasonable, indeed prejudiced, as e.g. slamming modern day Germany on the basis that a rump of neo-Nazis still exists within that country.

Not in any way curious no. Two good examples to prove my point - that those who held sway for so long weren't replaced when the rules changed. Both cases highlight that the choices weren't made because it was the right thing to do, but because it was the expedient thing to do. If anecdotal evidence is to be believed, then some clubs (not far off the premier Division) still operate a similar policy to Linfield. Curious though, that you seem to have someone rolling the snowballs in the background. Curious too that you highlight relationships with clubs many miles down the motorway, but produce no evidence of attempts to involve soccer people from just across the motorway. The presence of a few highly (for the IFL) paid Catholics on a Linfield team does not the ethos of that club change. Sunday football at Windsor anyone? Curious also that you deliberately try to misrepresent the DC situation. There is no doubt DC's facilities don't meet the required minimum standards, but if they make it into the Premier division next year, it will not represent some volte face from the IFA. Rather it just highlights the fact that DC isn't alone in this situation and they would be taking several other clubs down with them, with no other clubs there to replace them. Many thanks by the way for Linfeld's donation to the cause at the weekend. :)

Curious too that you introduce the Nazis into the argument. A tad unfair to the IFA to link them to Nazis. In addition, your analogy is erroneous, in so far as when the Nazis left power they left en masse. In the IFA the rules were simply changed and those who had religiously maintained them stayed in place. I look forward to the day when the IFA at all levels is populated by folk whose only interest is in soccer.

Quote from: Evil Genius on February 21, 2008, 01:04:22 PM
Why do you, the person who started your post with accusations against me of "whataboutery", "assinine assumptions", "crass generalisations" and "extrapolations" etc bring SammyG into your reply to me? I am not Sammy, he does not speak for me, nor me for him; he is quite capable of speaking for himself.  "Physician Heal Thyself" ::)

SammyG was brought in to highlight a common approach from many owcers, i.e. "there is a valid explanation for rules that, to the casual observer, may appear discriminatory. You have backed that up with your DC point.

I stand over my initial assertion, that in my experience of soccer in NI, participation between "both sections of the community" is begrudgingly tolerated. Please, do yourself a favour and don't mention MOPEry in any replies.

theres at least two travellers soccer teams that I have played against in the past in midlands soccer leagues
no one has a 'problem' with them , apart from being afraid if you have any windy players on your team, as the travellers use their rep and their tough tackling to frighten other teams into losing before the ball is kicked off. Esp when its at their home pitch, beside the halting site. Decent fellas on the pitch (dont know about off it).

Poots is a headcase. Tony may have a point about having him sacked.

As for playing on mixed sex teams , have done this in tournaments in the past and had generally used this to 'score' off the field after the game/tournament - its hard to take this seriously when your ulterior motive is half fixed on what happens after the final whistle. so am against mixed sex sports, and by the same motivation can see gay rugby being a detraction to the actual effectiveness of the team performance for these guys.

SS2 - have to admit, I think you are spot on with your asimilation and highlighting of hypocricy/veiled subvertive motives etc
however you are wasting your time against that kind of mindset.

Quote from: saffron sam2 on February 29, 2008, 12:28:05 PMSammyG was brought in to highlight a common approach from many owcers, i.e. "there is a valid explanation for rules that, to the casual observer, may appear discriminatory.

Can you please stop making this ridiculous point? I have never said anything of the sort and the fact that you keep repeating it, doesn't suddenly make it true.

Quote from: SammyG on February 29, 2008, 02:21:10 PM

Quote from: saffron sam2 on February 29, 2008, 12:28:05 PMSammyG was brought in to highlight a common approach from many owcers, i.e. "there is a valid explanation for rules that, to the casual observer, may appear discriminatory.

Can you please stop making this ridiculous point? I have never said anything of the sort and the fact that you keep repeating it, doesn't suddenly make it true.

Your point would be less ridiculous, if I was unable to quote from the currect thread.

Quote from: SammyG on February 21, 2008, 09:39:25 AM
Sorry are you now saying that some time ago, I said that the Linfield rule was unwritten (which is true although I don't remember saying it) or that DC were excluded on security grounds (again true and again I don't remember saying it) and those two things mean that I support the policy and am a bigot.

Ok right got that.  ::)

I note this also:

Quote from: SammyG on February 21, 2008, 09:20:31 AM
I very rarely comment on Irish League matters (as I have little interest and even less knowledge of the internal workings).

So with little interest and even less knowledge of the internal workings, you know that it was on security grounds that DC was kept out of the old B Division.

Keep up the good work SammyG.

Quote from: saffron sam2 on March 04, 2008, 08:26:40 AM

Quote from: SammyG on February 29, 2008, 02:21:10 PM

Quote from: saffron sam2 on February 29, 2008, 12:28:05 PMSammyG was brought in to highlight a common approach from many owcers, i.e. "there is a valid explanation for rules that, to the casual observer, may appear discriminatory.

Can you please stop making this ridiculous point? I have never said anything of the sort and the fact that you keep repeating it, doesn't suddenly make it true.

Your point would be less ridiculous, if I was unable to quote from the currect thread.

Quote from: SammyG on February 21, 2008, 09:39:25 AM
Sorry are you now saying that some time ago, I said that the Linfield rule was unwritten (which is true although I don't remember saying it) or that DC were excluded on security grounds (again true and again I don't remember saying it) and those two things mean that I support the policy and am a bigot.

Ok right got that.  ::)

I note this also:

Quote from: SammyG on February 21, 2008, 09:20:31 AM
I very rarely comment on Irish League matters (as I have little interest and even less knowledge of the internal workings).

So with little interest and even less knowledge of the internal workings, you know that it was on security grounds that DC was kept out of the old B Division.

Keep up the good work SammyG.

So yet again you take a statement of fact (which was in reply to one of your posts) and some how interpret that as me agreeing with it, even though I specifically state that I don't. FFS that's the sort of shite I'd expect from Fearon or Donagh, not from you.

Quote from: SammyG on March 04, 2008, 02:50:31 PM
So yet again you take a statement of fact (which was in reply to one of your posts) and some how interpret that as me agreeing with it, even though I specifically state that I don't. FFS that's the sort of shite I'd expect from Fearon or Donagh, not from you.

You going to back that up Sammy or is it just another of you're renowned lies to deflect attention from yourself when you've been caught out?

Quote from: SammyG on March 04, 2008, 02:50:31 PM
So yet again you take a statement of fact (which was in reply to one of your posts) and some how interpret that as me agreeing with it, even though I specifically state that I don't. FFS that's the sort of shite I'd expect from Fearon or Donagh, not from you.

Can you provide evidence that DC were excluded on security grounds?

Can you provide evidence that you have specifically stated that you disagree(d) with the exclusion of DC on security grounds?

Did you read my post?

Feck, I'm beginning to sound like you.

Where's MW when you* really need him, by the way?

* you as in the general populace of this board, rather than you specifically Sammy.

Quote from: saffron sam2 on March 04, 2008, 03:18:05 PM

Where's MW when you* really need him, by the way?

I belive he Joined Fianna Fáil

Quote from: An Fear Rua on March 04, 2008, 03:25:11 PM

Quote from: saffron sam2 on March 04, 2008, 03:18:05 PM

Where's MW when you* really need him, by the way?

I belive he Joined Fianna Fáil

And I'm thinking of it ;)

Quote from: Donagh on March 04, 2008, 02:58:52 PM
You going to back that up Sammy or is it just another of you're renowned lies to deflect attention from yourself when you've been caught out?

Nail on head

:D :D :D

Quote from: saffron sam2 on March 04, 2008, 03:18:05 PM

Quote from: SammyG on March 04, 2008, 02:50:31 PM
So yet again you take a statement of fact (which was in reply to one of your posts) and some how interpret that as me agreeing with it, even though I specifically state that I don't. FFS that's the sort of shite I'd expect from Fearon or Donagh, not from you.

Can you provide evidence that DC were excluded on security grounds?

It was the stated reason. I can't provide evidence as I don't think it was true (which is what I've been saying for the last several posts)

Quote from: saffron sam2 on March 04, 2008, 03:18:05 PM
Can you provide evidence that you have specifically stated that you disagree(d) with the exclusion of DC on security grounds?

See my posts on this thread.

Quote from: saffron sam2 on March 04, 2008, 03:18:05 PM
Did you read my post?

Yes

Quote from: saffron sam2 on March 04, 2008, 03:18:05 PM
Feck, I'm beginning to sound like you.

At least I usually bother to read what people have said, before I start (mis)quoting them.

Quote from: saffron sam2 on March 04, 2008, 03:18:05 PM
Where's MW when you* really need him, by the way?

* you as in the general populace of this board, rather than you specifically Sammy.

Haven't heard from him for a while (on here or elsewhere).

Quote from: Donagh on March 04, 2008, 02:58:52 PM

Quote from: SammyG on March 04, 2008, 02:50:31 PM
So yet again you take a statement of fact (which was in reply to one of your posts) and some how interpret that as me agreeing with it, even though I specifically state that I don't. FFS that's the sort of shite I'd expect from Fearon or Donagh, not from you.

You going to back that up Sammy or is it just another of you're renowned lies to deflect attention from yourself when you've been caught out?

Back what up?

If it's the fact that I didn't say what SS2 is accusing me of, see my previous post.

If it's the fact that yourself and Fearon are 'famous' for misquoting people or taking a few words out of a sentence, to suit your own agenda, then see anytime you've quoted me over the last 3 or 4 years.

Quote from: SammyG on March 04, 2008, 05:46:59 PM
yourself and Fearon are 'famous' for misquoting people or taking a few words out of a sentence, to suit your own agenda

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Nearly spat my tea all over the coffee table there.

Must be the single biggest example of the pot calling the kettle black ever to appear on this site.
And all the more ironic in that Sammy likes to say that about others  :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Quote from: his holiness nb on March 04, 2008, 07:28:04 PM

Quote from: SammyG on March 04, 2008, 05:46:59 PM
yourself and Fearon are 'famous' for misquoting people or taking a few words out of a sentence, to suit your own agenda

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Nearly spat my tea all over the coffee table there.

Must be the single biggest example of the pot calling the kettle black ever to appear on this site.
And all the more ironic in that Sammy likes to say that about others  :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

::)

 :-*