Could be a bit of fun for the OWC defenders over at Windsor Park and put an end to some of the more tiresome threads sustained by indefatigable windbag contributors on the Board. As I'm sure all genuine proponents of the six county soccer teams 'Football For All' publicity drive are aware, their next game coincides Ash Wednesday when all Catholics will be giving public witness to their repentance before God by having the cross of ash placed on their foreheads.
To be honest nobody really believes these assertions about your Kaflick mate who goes to all the games, so now you can even take photographs to prove that the GAWA army aren't the mono-cultural, bigoted, sectarian, white supremacists grouping as is often alleged in the student cafes and bars of downtown Belfast.
QuoteTo be honest nobody really believes these assertions about your Kaflick mate who goes to all the games
Fair enough, your call. Im sure he wont give a feck whether you believe in him or not
Quote from: nifan on January 31, 2008, 02:08:38 PM
QuoteTo be honest nobody really believes these assertions about your Kaflick mate who goes to all the games
Fair enough, your call. Im sure he wont give a feck whether you believe in him or not
Ach go on nifan. You could use this thread to post all the phone pics of the 'Kaflicks' at the game next week - could be quite funny seeing all those Fenians having a good time in Windsor and would certainly get one over on Tony.
There'll be a guy at the gate with a sponge..
Aye right enough, ill be going round the game snapping all the catholics there
thats what the games about for me
Quote from: Fluffy Che on January 31, 2008, 02:13:19 PM
There'll be a guy at the gate with a sponge..
Is that to give the Catholics a good oul scrub anyhow cos they are all doirty!
Quote from: nifan on January 31, 2008, 02:17:04 PM
Aye right enough, ill be going round the game snapping all the catholics there
thats what the games about for me
Maybe EG could do it then - from the amount of time he spend on here talking about such matter, the 'cultural' side to following the GAWA is the attractive bit.
Quote from: Donagh on January 31, 2008, 02:01:32 PM
To be honest nobody really believes these assertions
You may not believe it, but don't assume you speak for everyone, except (perhaps) those people like you and Fearon who appear to
need to believe this sort of thing. ::)
some on here are more obsessed with the Northern Ireland football team than the actual Northern Ireland fans themselves :D
Quote from: Donagh on January 31, 2008, 02:20:18 PM
Quote from: nifan on January 31, 2008, 02:17:04 PM
Aye right enough, ill be going round the game snapping all the catholics there
thats what the games about for me
Maybe EG could do it then - from the amount of time he spend on here talking about such matter, the 'cultural' side to following the GAWA is the attractive bit.
I, too, shall be concentrating on the game, but even if I weren't, I'm not sure I'd be able to recognise the Catholics in the crowd, anyway. Perhaps we should delegate the count to this chap, seeing as he is said to be a regular* attendee at NI games and he is undoubtedly better qualified to judge than me:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Farquhar
* - Perhaps "faithful" would be a better description! ;)
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 31, 2008, 02:27:01 PM
Quote from: Donagh on January 31, 2008, 02:01:32 PM
To be honest nobody really believes these assertions
You may not believe it, but don't assume you speak for everyone, except (perhaps) those people like you and Fearon who appear to need to believe this sort of thing. ::)
I believe you. Just thought I would lend a helping hand to FFA and give you an opportunity to capitalise on a gold plated PR opportunity. Tsk, try to help some people and this is what you get...
What about those snaky "lapsed" (destined for hell) Kaflicks?
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 31, 2008, 02:31:02 PM
I'm not sure I'd be able to recognise the Catholics in the crowd
You can't miss them - they'll be the ones with the big black cross on their foreheads!
Aye donagh, all catholics will have a black cross on their head come 8pm.
Most ones i know have them off about an hour after they get them
Any true Catholic is supposed to keep theirs on until midnight.
The others are just doing it for show. . .
Quote from: Donagh on January 31, 2008, 02:33:46 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 31, 2008, 02:31:02 PM
I'm not sure I'd be able to recognise the Catholics in the crowd
You can't miss them - they'll be the ones with the big black cross on their foreheads!
The only ones I'll be interested in will be the ones wearing the Emerald Green Shirts with the Celtic Cross badge on it, running around on the pitch. And even then it will only be for their passing and tackling etc - just like all their teammates.
That's the true spirit of "Football For All", not the sort of "Sectarian Headcount For All" which you seem to be obsessed with... ???
Quote from: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on January 31, 2008, 02:36:40 PM
Any true Catholic is supposed to keep theirs on until midnight.
The others are just doing it for show. . .
Aye, they are supposed to, just like they are supposed to not have sex before marriage etc.
It might be difficult to prove, in every case, if a Catholic, or indeed anyone, has had sex before their marriage.
They may just be kidding.
Depends if it was you who had sex with them :P
tiresome threads sustained by indefatigable windbag contributors on the Board
If my profile message isn't the finest example of indefatigable windbagging on this board then I don't know what is ::)
Quote from: Fluffy Che on January 31, 2008, 02:13:19 PM
There'll be a guy at the gate with a sponge..
No way, no self respecting Catholic would clean their ashes off.
this tread is a joke right? you'll know the catholics as they wont be carrying condoms, will have ashes on their heads, will have rosery beads with them, wont have had red meat so wont be found near the burger van and will spend the whole game talking about what they're going to do for lent :P
This Catholic soccer fan may want it known that he might not be able to find it in his heart to go to Windsor on Ash Wednesday, though perhaps not for the reasons you might expect. As he explains in his local Fermanagh newspaper:
Wonderful fans deserve 'football for all' stadium
Long after the final whistle in Gran Canaria had sounded the death knell of Northern Ireland's Euro 2008 hopes, 4,000 green and white fans were still doing the "bouncey" and singing "We're not Brazil, we're Northern Ireland."
Among them were hundreds of fans from Fermanagh and the west of the Province. And among them were people of different backgrounds.
Sean McManus, a construction worker from Enniskillen, isn't your typical Northern Ireland fan. A former pupil at St. Joseph's College, Sean is living proof that not all fans are east Belfast loyalists!
Sean travels to most Northern Ireland away games, and in this campaign was in Latvia, Sweden, Lichtenstein and, of course, Spain last week – "Well, Northern Ireland is our country and I follow them through good times and bad."
To prove the point even further, Sean is an ardent follower of the pride of east Belfast, Glentoran, and has been one of the club's vice-presidents for five years now.
He explains: "I first started following the Glens when Jimmy Cleary was our captain; I remember him from Enniskillen. In September, I had the privilege of playing alongside Jimmy in Paul Leeman's testimonial."
Sean is Glentoran through and through and talks glowingly, for example, about the work the club does in setting up a football academy in Ghana.
In fact, he is such a fanatic that he doesn't like going to Windsor Park for Northern Ireland's home games.
"I do go to the home matches sometimes, but not all the time," says Sean. But not for the reasons one might think.
"Linfield are our great rivals and they get 15 per cent of the money for internationals. I don't like that," he says.
"The sooner we get a national stadium the better," he goes on. "The Maze or wherever doesn't matter to me; we need a stadium that is independent from any club. And anyway, these great fans deserve a new stadium."
Sean is full of praise for the IFA's "football for all" scheme which has proved successful in breaking down sectarian barriers.
"I'm a good example of it," he says with some justification.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzz............
Quote from: thejuice on January 31, 2008, 03:30:06 PM
this tread is a joke right? you'll know the catholics as they wont be carrying condoms, will have ashes on their heads, will have rosery beads with them, wont have had red meat so wont be found near the burger van and will spend the whole game talking about what they're going to do for lent :P
We never joke about religion up here juice, it's much to important for that. Some people have been known to take it very seriously and bombard us with articles from the Fermanagh Herald. Get a life EG ffs...
Quote from: Donagh on January 31, 2008, 02:01:32 PM
Could be a bit of fun for the OWC defenders over at Windsor Park and put an end to some of the more tiresome threads sustained by indefatigable windbag contributors on the Board. As I'm sure all genuine proponents of the six county soccer teams 'Football For All' publicity drive are aware, their next game coincides Ash Wednesday when all Catholics will be giving public witness to their repentance before God by having the cross of ash placed on their foreheads.
To be honest nobody really believes these assertions about your Kaflick mate who goes to all the games, so now you can even take photographs to prove that the GAWA army aren't the mono-cultural, bigoted, sectarian, white supremacists grouping as is often alleged in the student cafes and bars of downtown Belfast.
Is that like PIN number? :P
Quote from: Donagh on January 31, 2008, 03:48:45 PM
We never joke about religion up here juice, it's much to important for that. Some people have been known to take it very seriously and bombard us with articles from the Fermanagh Herald. Get a life EG ffs...
You were the one who started this thread, presumably out of curiousity as to how many Catholics would be at next Wednesday's game. I was merely starting the count off with Sean. This is hardly a "bombardment" - unless you are afraid I was going to use the old Connolly House tricks of double or triple counting/including the dead/sending RC fans along to Windsor by post etc. ;)
How does it go? Let me see, with a wee bit of creative counting, out of a toal capacity of just over 14,000, I reckon I could get the numbers of Catholic fans inside Windsor up to around 20,000... :D
Has anyone seen the Omen? All photos of lapsed catholics and protestants at the game will be easily recogniseable as there will be blurry shapes around their heads and bodies, hinting at how they will soon perish at the hands of the devil.
:o
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 31, 2008, 04:11:15 PM
[unless you are afraid I was going to use the old Connolly House tricks
Somebody isnt paying attention to the catchphrase / buzzwords thread ;)
Quote from: Chrisowc on January 31, 2008, 03:21:13 PM
tiresome threads sustained by indefatigable windbag contributors on the Board
If my profile message isn't the finest example of indefatigable windbagging on this board then I don't know what is ::)
Far be it for me to turn tout, but, HEY MOD3, is that not personal abuse under your new rules? :P
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 31, 2008, 03:41:50 PM
Sean McManus, a construction worker from Enniskillen, isn't your typical Northern Ireland fan. A former pupil at St. Joseph's College, Sean is living proof that not all fans are east Belfast loyalists!
Sean travels to most Northern Ireland away games, and in this campaign was in Latvia, Sweden, Lichtenstein and, of course, Spain last week – "Well, Northern Ireland is our country and I follow them through good times and bad."
To prove the point even further, Sean is an ardent follower of the pride of east Belfast, Glentoran, and has been one of the club's vice-presidents for five years now.
He explains: "I first started following the Glens when Jimmy Cleary was our captain; I remember him from Enniskillen. In September, I had the privilege of playing alongside Jimmy in Paul Leeman's testimonial."
Sean is Glentoran through and through and talks glowingly, for example, about the work the club does in setting up a football academy in Ghana.
In fact, he is such a fanatic that he doesn't like going to Windsor Park for Northern Ireland's home games.
"I do go to the home matches sometimes, but not all the time," says Sean. But not for the reasons one might think.
"Linfield are our great rivals and they get 15 per cent of the money for internationals. I don't like that," he says.
"The sooner we get a national stadium the better," he goes on. "The Maze or wherever doesn't matter to me; we need a stadium that is independent from any club. And anyway, these great fans deserve a new stadium."
Sean is full of praise for the IFA's "football for all" scheme which has proved successful in breaking down sectarian barriers.
"I'm a good example of it," he says with some justification.
Its a pity we couldnt get the boul Sean on this here baord to here what he has to say about Neil Lennon, about GSTQ, about the UJ. Does he actually sing along with GSTQ? Does he face the UJ? Wonder does he ever go to gaelic matches? Would he prefer hurling or football? Would he support England against the ROI? Did any of his anscestors fight in the civil war? Ah sure we'll probably never know.
Kyle Laverty is an interesting case. Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but when Celtic interest grew, he became less intersted in a move and committed himself to Burnley. Its a pity cause i would have liked to have heard the reception he gets in windsor if after scoring the winner for Celtic against Rangers on a Saturday, and then running our for the wee statelet a few days later.
Donagh, since the discussion about the new rules started up yesterday I reckon we have had a record number of rule breaks!!!
If you think a rule has been broken you need to report it along with the rule number.
Cant see you getting far with that one though ;)
QuoteIts a pity we couldnt get the boul Sean on this here baord to here what he has to say about Neil Lennon, about GSTQ, about the UJ. Does he actually sing along with GSTQ? Does he face the UJ? Wonder does he ever go to gaelic matches? Would he prefer hurling or football? Would he support England against the ROI? Did any of his anscestors fight in the civil war? Ah sure we'll probably never know.
Good point Orior, he may not be the right sort of catholic. We should probably get them to register this sort of information, and then we can work out how many of the real ones are about ;)
Quote from: Orior on January 31, 2008, 05:08:29 PM
Does he face the UJ?
He definately doesn't do that.
Quote from: Orior on January 31, 2008, 05:08:29 PM
Its a pity we couldnt get the boul Sean on this here baord to here what he has to say about Neil Lennon
At a wild guess, I'd say he's deplore the abuse a minority of his fellow fans gave to Lennon and greatly deplore that some unknown person(s) caused NL to retire from NI duty, but appreciate the kind words which Lennon has much more recemtly had for the NI fans.
Quote from: Orior on January 31, 2008, 05:08:29 PM
Its a pity we couldnt get the boul Sean on this here baord to here what he has to say about... GSTQ. Does he actually sing along with GSTQ?
No idea, but if he's anything like me, he'll pretty much ignore what is, after all, only 90 seconds before the main event has even started, during which I'm often downstairs in the bogs, having a last minute pee. Doubt if he sings along - sure half the team don't bother, so it's not as if it's compulsory or anything. Anyway, ike me I'd guess he would prefer to see it replaced with something else peculiarly Norn Iron
Quote from: Orior on January 31, 2008, 05:08:29 PM
Its a pity we couldnt get the boul Sean on this here baord to here what he has to say about... the UJ. Does he face the UJ?
Why would he have anything to say about the UJ, never mind "face it"? They don't fly it at NI matches... ???
Quote from: Orior on January 31, 2008, 05:08:29 PM
Wonder does he ever go to gaelic matches? Would he prefer hurling or football?
No idea. It's possible, but as I understand it, Enniskillen may be more of a soccer town than a Gaelic football town and Hurling is not much played. Still highly possible, I suppose, especially since soccer doesn't impose any ban on its followers taking an interest in non-Garrison games. And it's not Fintona after all ;)
Quote from: Orior on January 31, 2008, 05:08:29 PM
Would he support England against the ROI?
Unlikely. Unless he had a bet on them, perhaps?
Quote from: Orior on January 31, 2008, 05:08:29 PM
Did any of his anscestors fight in the civil war? Ah sure we'll probably never know.
You're right, probably none of us will ever know. And at least one of us won't give a flying f**k, either. ;)
Quote from: Orior on January 31, 2008, 05:08:29 PM
Kyle Laverty is an interesting case. Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but when Celtic interest grew, he became less intersted in a move and committed himself to Burnley. Its a pity cause i would have liked to have heard the reception he gets in windsor if after scoring the winner for Celtic against Rangers on a Saturday, and then running our for the wee statelet a few days later.
I think you are reading too much into it. In fact, I think you may be reading it in a language that you've not ever studied, tbh. You see, as I was so carefully corrected on this very point on another thread, when Celtic first expressed an interest in him a year ago, he expressed concern that there might be a reaction from some fans, though he stated quite clearly that it would be an "honour" for him to play for so prestigious a club as Celtic. Yet when the subject re-emrged in the Summer and again this last few days, he no longer made any mention of any fans' reaction, but if anything was more enthusiastic at a potential move. And if he is more tied than ever to Burnley, that is only because they are determined to keep him, even in the face of a late counter-bid from, ahem, Glasgow Rangers...
So you look likely to have to wait a while longer to hear what reception he gets at Windsor following your scenario. Why don't you hold your breath?
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 31, 2008, 06:30:59 PM
At a wild guess, I'd say he's deplore the abuse a minority of his fellow fans gave to Lennon and greatly deplore that some unknown person(s) caused NL to retire from NI duty, but appreciate the kind words which Lennon has much more recemtly had for the NI fans.
Fair enough. Now how about the tame domesticated guess?
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 31, 2008, 06:30:59 PM
No idea, but if he's anything like me, he'll pretty much ignore what is, after all, only 90 seconds before the main event has even started, during which I'm often downstairs in the bogs, having a last minute pee. Doubt if he sings along - sure half the team don't bother, so it's not as if it's compulsory or anything. Anyway, ike me I'd guess he would prefer to see it replaced with something else peculiarly Norn Iron
Thats too much information chief. Also, you are missing half the fun of it all when owc intimidate the opposition with their steadfast loyalty to the british empire/england. It certainly scares the pants of me. Is your toilet free?
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 31, 2008, 06:30:59 PM
Why would he have anything to say about the UJ, never mind "face it"? They don't fly it at NI matches... ???
Well, the tricolour clearly represents owc being one third of the flag. And in light of the GFA would he not rather see all residents represented? Or is it only owc fans who need represented?
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 31, 2008, 06:30:59 PM
No idea. It's possible, but as I understand it, Enniskillen may be more of a soccer town than a Gaelic football town and Hurling is not much played. Still highly possible, I suppose, especially since soccer doesn't impose any ban on its followers taking an interest in non-Garrison games. And it's not Fintona after all ;)
Spose.
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 31, 2008, 06:30:59 PM
Unlikely. Unless he had a bet on them, perhaps?
You're right, probably none of us will ever know. And at least one of us won't give a flying f**k, either. ;)
Language!
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 31, 2008, 06:30:59 PM
I think you are reading too much into it. In fact, I think you may be reading it in a language that you've not ever studied, tbh. You see, as I was so carefully corrected on this very point on another thread, when Celtic first expressed an interest in him a year ago, he expressed concern that there might be a reaction from some fans, though he stated quite clearly that it would be an "honour" for him to play for so prestigious a club as Celtic. Yet when the subject re-emrged in the Summer and again this last few days, he no longer made any mention of any fans' reaction, but if anything was more enthusiastic at a potential move. And if he is more tied than ever to Burnley, that is only because they are determined to keep him, even in the face of a late counter-bid from, ahem, Glasgow Rangers...
Didnt realise it was discussed already.
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 31, 2008, 06:30:59 PM
So you look likely to have to wait a while longer to hear what reception he gets at Windsor following your scenario. Why don't you hold your breath?
I am. Can someone call 999?
In the spirit of fair play we should count the number of prods at the ROI game.
They will be anyone without ashes (i suppose we should allow for a % muslim, hindu etc as well) as all catholics will have theirs on to midnight.
Quote from: ziggysego on January 31, 2008, 03:21:50 PM
Quote from: Fluffy Che on January 31, 2008, 02:13:19 PM
There'll be a guy at the gate with a sponge..
No way, no self respecting Catholic would clean their ashes off.
There is no such thing as a self respecting Catholic. We are all very humble.
All this talk about counting guys with ashes, what if it rains? :o
Or for the ROI game you also have to allow for Meath lads, they have dirty heads no matter what religion ;)
As an aside folks, I recently (over)heard two eight-year-olds (males) discussing their recent attendance at 'Catholic classes' in preparation for Holy Communion. I believe these 'classes' have become more common in the last few years, because so few of the parents bring them to mass regularly. Anyhow, I digress. One says to the other "I see you've begun Catholic classes recently". The Other replies "I have, it's pretty boring". "Yes", replies the First, "All they talk about is God, God, God, God, God!"
True story. :)
Quote from: nifan on February 01, 2008, 10:07:01 AM
In the spirit of fair play we should count the number of prods at the ROI game.
They will be anyone without ashes (i suppose we should allow for a % muslim, hindu etc as well) as all catholics will have theirs on to midnight.
All
true Catholics, ni fen
Quote from: his holiness nb on January 31, 2008, 04:56:30 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 31, 2008, 04:11:15 PM
[unless you are afraid I was going to use the old Connolly House tricks
Somebody isnt paying attention to the catchphrase / buzzwords thread ;)
A few years ago in work we had a young guy from East Belfast who I don't think had crossed the Lagan in his puff. It was Ash Wednesday and one of the women in work had ash on her head.
This boy, thinking he was being polite and helpful, told her that she had dirt on her head. All hell broke loose. Thats discrimination!!!! she squeeled. Thankfully he beat me to it and I had said nothing :D
I'd say the same girl had a hotline to Connolly House.
Quote from: Chrisowc on February 01, 2008, 06:13:16 PM
A few years ago in work we had a young guy from East Belfast who I don't think had crossed the Lagan in his puff. It was Ash Wednesday and one of the women in work had ash on her head.
This boy, thinking he was being polite and helpful, told her that she had dirt on her head. All hell broke loose. Thats discrimination!!!! she squeeled. Thankfully he beat me to it and I had said nothing :D
I'd say the same girl had a hotline to Connolly House.
I remember a (Prod) mate of mine at College pulled a good one one Ash Wednesday. He went into the student bar at lunchtime, where he sat down and chatted with several groups of people. Mid-conversation, he'd suddenly say to one of the Prods in the group: "You've got something on your forehead" and go to dab it off for them with his finger. What they didn't know was that he'd just dipped his finger in his cigarette ash, and was actually dabbing it on!
Some of his "victims" went around all day with it on before they realised why everyone was grinning at them all the time. :D
I remember a (Prod) mate of mine at College
[/quote]
Oh aye EG, Next thing you will be saying is, 'sure some of my best mates are prods'!! :P
Was there not a NI game at Windsor on either last Ash Wednesday or the one before? Something about a particular poster and "Sash Wednesday" and a song called "The Ash My Father Wore" is niggling away in the back of my mind.
theres been games on ash wednesday 2 times in recent years sam
i honestly dont know what the rest of your post is about?
Dont think theres been any bother associated with it, apart from the first one there was some "back and forth" between some ni fans leaving the union, and some leaving the chaplaincy and going into the union.
Quote from: nifan on February 03, 2008, 03:07:21 PM
theres been games on ash wednesday 2 times in recent years sam
i honestly dont know what the rest of your post is about?
Dont think theres been any bother associated with it, apart from the first one there was some "back and forth" between some ni fans leaving the union, and some leaving the chaplaincy and going into the union.
I am convinced that in the past there has been a thread about NI games on Ash Wednesday and a Portydown / Poyntzpass based poster included a serenade to the act of receiving the Ashes on Ash Wednesday called "The Ash My Father Wore". He also referred to the game at Windsor as Sash Wednesday. Can't find the proof, but I am certain it happened. I was going to ask Evil Genius for confirmation, but sure isn't his memory shot to pieces. :D
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 01, 2008, 07:19:17 PM
Quote from: Chrisowc on February 01, 2008, 06:13:16 PM
A few years ago in work we had a young guy from East Belfast who I don't think had crossed the Lagan in his puff. It was Ash Wednesday and one of the women in work had ash on her head.
This boy, thinking he was being polite and helpful, told her that she had dirt on her head. All hell broke loose. Thats discrimination!!!! she squeeled. Thankfully he beat me to it and I had said nothing :D
I'd say the same girl had a hotline to Connolly House.
I remember a (Prod) mate of mine at College pulled a good one one Ash Wednesday. He went into the student bar at lunchtime, where he sat down and chatted with several groups of people. Mid-conversation, he'd suddenly say to one of the Prods in the group: "You've got something on your forehead" and go to dab it off for them with his finger. What they didn't know was that he'd just dipped his finger in his cigarette ash, and was actually dabbing it on!
Some of his "victims" went around all day with it on before they realised why everyone was grinning at them all the time. :D
aye deadly altogether...
""Long after the final whistle in Gran Canaria had sounded the death knell of Northern Ireland's Euro 2008 hopes, 4,000 green and white fans were still doing the "bouncey" and singing "We're not Brazil, we're Northern Ireland.""
Cringe factor is off the scale
Quote from: Fishbat on February 03, 2008, 08:56:43 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 01, 2008, 07:19:17 PM
Quote from: Chrisowc on February 01, 2008, 06:13:16 PM
A few years ago in work we had a young guy from East Belfast who I don't think had crossed the Lagan in his puff. It was Ash Wednesday and one of the women in work had ash on her head.
This boy, thinking he was being polite and helpful, told her that she had dirt on her head. All hell broke loose. Thats discrimination!!!! she squeeled. Thankfully he beat me to it and I had said nothing :D
I'd say the same girl had a hotline to Connolly House.
I remember a (Prod) mate of mine at College pulled a good one one Ash Wednesday. He went into the student bar at lunchtime, where he sat down and chatted with several groups of people. Mid-conversation, he'd suddenly say to one of the Prods in the group: "You've got something on your forehead" and go to dab it off for them with his finger. What they didn't know was that he'd just dipped his finger in his cigarette ash, and was actually dabbing it on!
Some of his "victims" went around all day with it on before they realised why everyone was grinning at them all the time. :D
aye deadly altogether...
""Long after the final whistle in Gran Canaria had sounded the death knell of Northern Ireland's Euro 2008 hopes, 4,000 green and white fans were still doing the "bouncey" and singing "We're not Brazil, we're Northern Ireland.""
Cringe factor is off the scale
Ole, ole, ole, ole...........
Quote from: saffron sam2 on February 03, 2008, 08:09:53 PM
I am convinced that in the past there has been a thread about NI games on Ash Wednesday and a Portydown / Poyntzpass based poster included a serenade to the act of receiving the Ashes on Ash Wednesday called "The Ash My Father Wore". He also referred to the game at Windsor as Sash Wednesday. Can't find the proof, but I am certain it happened. I was going to ask Evil Genius for confirmation, but sure isn't his memory shot to pieces. :D
That definately sounds familiar alright SS.
Quote from: Fishbat on February 03, 2008, 08:56:43 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 01, 2008, 07:19:17 PM
I remember a (Prod) mate of mine at College pulled a good one one Ash Wednesday. He went into the student bar at lunchtime, where he sat down and chatted with several groups of people. Mid-conversation, he'd suddenly say to one of the Prods in the group: "You've got something on your forehead" and go to dab it off for them with his finger. What they didn't know was that he'd just dipped his finger in his cigarette ash, and was actually dabbing it on!
Some of his "victims" went around all day with it on before they realised why everyone was grinning at them all the time. :D
aye deadly altogether...
Well, it raised a laugh, but maybe it isn't sophisticated enough for you or something?
Quote from: Fishbat on February 03, 2008, 08:56:43 PM
""Long after the final whistle in Gran Canaria had sounded the death knell of Northern Ireland's Euro 2008 hopes, 4,000 green and white fans were still doing the "bouncey" and singing "We're not Brazil, we're Northern Ireland.""
Cringe factor is off the scale
So you find it cringeworthy that some football fans manage to enjoy themselves after a game? The fact is, these fans had travelled a long way, it was the end of an enjoyable campaign, they were on a holiday isle, with many of the fans having brought their family for a week oh, and they were being kept back by the local police until the home fans had dispersed. What would you have preferred them to do? Sit around moaning, or wreck the place or something? Or is it that you aren't comfortable with having some of your prejudices challenged, so feel the need to sneer?
Anyway, if you found that little description hard to take, you'll possibly cringe to death on this one. I hope.
SPANISH FAN APPLAUDS THE GREEN AND WHITE ARMY
20/12/2007
'THE Northern Ireland fans are the best football supporters I have ever met in my entire life.'
These are the words of one Spanish fan who was at the Euro 2008 qualifier at the Estadio de Gran Canaria in Las Palmas on November 21.
Jose Vizcaíno emailed the Irish FA to say that our supporters are simply the best!
This is what Jose said:
"I'm sending this email from Las Palmas de Gran Canaria, where your national squad recently played a qualifying match against Spain. Unfortunately your boys didn't make it after fighting all the way, but the main reason for this message is to thank your fans... they are the best supporters I've ever seen in my life.
"I was at the stadium and they are the best example of what supporters should be like, cheering non stop, singing their songs, saying goodbye to local supporters, and while they were losing and the Swedish were winning! The whole island is commenting on that, even the local news mentioned how proud you should be of your supporters.
"After the match.... no problems at all - I stayed after the match drinking with your fans, singing, exchanging flags, shirts, and some good laughs! And there were no problems with anyone. Thank you, thank you, thank you Northern Ireland fans for being the way you are!! You'll always be in our hearts in the Canaries, and next time... your squad has to make it the Finals for your supporters! Northern Ireland fans don't ever change."All that and with a name like Jose Vizcaino, probably a Fenian as well... :D
Any self-respecting Gran Canarian wouldn't support Spain anyhow - I've seen the graffiti in Playa del Inglés: "The Canaries are not Spanish".
So no wonder Joe Vincent was complimenting any team that was fighting, sorry, playing the Imperialists.
¡Viva la Quinta Brigada!
PS I bet wee Joe is now ending his perfect norn iron sentences with 'so it is'.
Quote from: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on February 04, 2008, 03:19:01 PM
Any self-respecting Gran Canarian wouldn't support Spain anyhow - I've seen the graffiti in Playa del Inglés: "The Canaries are not Spanish".
So no wonder Joe Vincent was complimenting any team that was fighting, sorry, playing the Imperialists.
¡Viva la Quinta Brigada!
PS I bet wee Joe is now ending his perfect norn iron sentences with 'so it is'.
So you are basing your opinion that 'any self-respecting Gran Canarian wouldn't support Spain' is based on some graffiti you saw in Playa del Ingles? Very scientific. Who are you to tell anyone living a couple of thousand miles away how they should see themselves?
Having said that there was plenty of Canarian good will shown to us and some locals commented that they would be supporting Northern Ireland against Spain. I did see (including 30 odd thousand at the match) and speak to many more who were supporting Spain.
Nah, it was based on one elderly barman called Pedro who kept on giving us free drinks because we accepted his reasonable argument that the Royalists in Madrid had no right to govern this wee group of islands hundreds of miles by distance, if not a million miles culturally different from the indigenous people.
Quote"Who are you to tell anyone living a couple of thousand miles away how they should see themselves?"
Oh the irony.
Quote from: Chrisowc on February 04, 2008, 03:33:06 PM
I did see (including 30 odd thousand at the match) and speak to many more who were supporting Spain,
so I did.
Quote from: Donagh on February 04, 2008, 03:49:16 PM
Quote from: Chrisowc on February 04, 2008, 03:33:06 PM
I did see (including 30 odd thousand at the match) and speak to many more who were supporting Spain,
so I did.
Did you?
Quote from: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on February 04, 2008, 03:41:38 PM
Nah, it was based on one elderly barman called Pedro who kept on giving us free drinks because we accepted his reasonable argument that the Royalists in Madrid had no right to govern this wee group of islands hundreds of miles by distance, if not a million miles culturally different from the indigenous people.
Quote"Who are you to tell anyone living a couple of thousand miles away how they should see themselves?"
Oh the irony.
Care to explain the irony?
Quote from: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on February 04, 2008, 03:19:01 PM
Any self-respecting Gran Canarian wouldn't support Spain anyhow - I've seen the graffiti in Playa del Inglés: "The Canaries are not Spanish".
So no wonder Joe Vincent was complimenting any team that was fighting, sorry, playing the Imperialists.
Surely any self-respecting anti-Imperialist, anti-Monarchist, self-determining Gran Canarian wouldn't support
either team in this match?
Much more consistent would be to ignore it altogether and stay at home pursuing truly native Gran Can sports, like "Fleece the Tourist"... :D
Quote from: Chrisowc on February 04, 2008, 04:02:11 PM
Quote"Who are you to tell anyone living a couple of thousand miles away how they should see themselves?"
Oh the irony.
Care to explain the irony?
Ach now. "As British as Finchley" springs to mind, obviously.
Quote from: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on February 04, 2008, 04:09:51 PM
Quote from: Chrisowc on February 04, 2008, 04:02:11 PM
Quote"Who are you to tell anyone living a couple of thousand miles away how they should see themselves?"
Oh the irony.
Care to explain the irony?
Ach now. "As British as Finchley" springs to mind, obviously.
I asked you 'who are you to tell someone living thousands of miles away how they view themselves'. You responded with 'oh the irony' as if I had done the same thing.
As far as I see it if someone from Gran Canaria wants to see themselves as Spanish or solely Canarian that is their choice and good luck to them either way.
So have another go - where is the Irony in my original statement?
Quote from: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on February 04, 2008, 04:09:51 PM
Quote from: Chrisowc on February 04, 2008, 04:02:11 PM
Quote"Who are you to tell anyone living a couple of thousand miles away how they should see themselves?"
Oh the irony.
Care to explain the irony?
Ach now. "As British as Finchley" springs to mind, obviously.
Doesn't really do it for me, I'm afraid. You see, telling us who you are, or even who we should be, is one thing; since whether we see ourselves as British/Irish/Northern Irish etc, we each have a stake (and therefore a say) in the whole Britain/Ireland debate.
By what special qualification do you reserve to yourself the right to pass comment on the people of Spain and the Canaries? Some Graffiti and "An old bloke in a Bar" is hardly enough; you'd need to add "The Cab Driver who took me to the Airport" to establish a real rock-solid case... ::)
Talk about begrudgers,
If OWC fans found a cure to cancer and brought about world peace,some on here would still give them no credit. ::)
You have posted this before and I left it then, but I have been troubled by it.
QuoteSPANISH FAN APPLAUDS THE GREEN AND WHITE ARMY
20/12/2007
'THE Northern Ireland fans are the best football supporters I have ever met in my entire life.'
These are the words of one Spanish fan who was at the Euro 2008 qualifier at the Estadio de Gran Canaria in Las Palmas on November 21.
Jose Vizcaíno emailed the Irish FA to say that our supporters are simply the best!
This is what Jose said:
"I'm sending this email from Las Palmas de Gran Canaria, where your national squad recently played a qualifying match against Spain. Unfortunately your boys didn't make it after fighting all the way, but the main reason for this message is to thank your fans... they are the best supporters I've ever seen in my life.
"I was at the stadium and they are the best example of what supporters should be like, cheering non stop, singing their songs, saying goodbye to local supporters, and while they were losing and the Swedish were winning! The whole island is commenting on that, even the local news mentioned how proud you should be of your supporters.
"After the match.... no problems at all - I stayed after the match drinking with your fans, singing, exchanging flags, shirts, and some good laughs! And there were no problems with anyone. Thank you, thank you, thank you Northern Ireland fans for being the way you are!! You'll always be in our hearts in the Canaries, and next time... your squad has to make it the Finals for your supporters! Northern Ireland fans don't ever change."
We are constantly told that NI fans have changed, or is it just the atmosphere that has changed. I'm confused - have you or haven't you changed from the worst of the sectarian excesses?
Something for you to ponder as you belt out the English National anthem on Wednesday, I reckon.
Quote from: saffron sam2 on February 04, 2008, 08:26:45 PM
We are constantly told that NI fans have changed, or is it just the atmosphere that has changed. I'm confused - have you or haven't you changed from the worst of the sectarian excesses?
Something for you to ponder as you belt out the English National anthem on Wednesday, I reckon.
The context I took this in was the guy was making a request as in 'please don't change' rather than making an observation.
We have gone over this belting out of national anthems before SS2. You know fine well that it is more than the English National anthem. Whether it is the best/most appropriate anthem for the Northern Ireland football team is another matter. The debate among Northern Ireland fans continues. Which can surely only be a good thing?
Quote from: Chrisowc on February 04, 2008, 09:29:55 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on February 04, 2008, 08:26:45 PM
We are constantly told that NI fans have changed, or is it just the atmosphere that has changed. I'm confused - have you or haven't you changed from the worst of the sectarian excesses?
Something for you to ponder as you belt out the English National anthem on Wednesday, I reckon.
The context I took this in was the guy was making a request as in 'please don't change' rather than making an observation.
We have gone over this belting out of national anthems before SS2. You know fine well that it is more than the English National anthem. Whether it is the best/most appropriate anthem for the Northern Ireland football team is another matter. The debate among Northern Ireland fans continues. Which can surely only be a good thing?
There should be no debate about it.
Quote from: Chrisowc on February 04, 2008, 09:29:55 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on February 04, 2008, 08:26:45 PM
We are constantly told that NI fans have changed, or is it just the atmosphere that has changed. I'm confused - have you or haven't you changed from the worst of the sectarian excesses?
Something for you to ponder as you belt out the English National anthem on Wednesday, I reckon.
The context I took this in was the guy was making a request as in 'please don't change' rather than making an observation.
We have gone over this belting out of national anthems before SS2. You know fine well that it is more than the English National anthem. Whether it is the best/most appropriate anthem for the Northern Ireland football team is another matter. The debate among Northern Ireland fans continues. Which can surely only be a good thing?
That makes sense. The missing comma, being discussed on the Total Tool Journalism thread on the other side of the board would back it up. So "NI fans don't change" as I read it becomes "NI fans, don't change".
As regards the second half of my post, you really need to read everything I write. MW will explain when he's on next. In the mean time if you want to search the site for "tedious wind-up", feel free.
Quote from: stiffler on February 04, 2008, 09:40:37 PM
Quote from: Chrisowc on February 04, 2008, 09:29:55 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on February 04, 2008, 08:26:45 PM
We are constantly told that NI fans have changed, or is it just the atmosphere that has changed. I'm confused - have you or haven't you changed from the worst of the sectarian excesses?
Something for you to ponder as you belt out the English National anthem on Wednesday, I reckon.
The context I took this in was the guy was making a request as in 'please don't change' rather than making an observation.
We have gone over this belting out of national anthems before SS2. You know fine well that it is more than the English National anthem. Whether it is the best/most appropriate anthem for the Northern Ireland football team is another matter. The debate among Northern Ireland fans continues. Which can surely only be a good thing?
There should be no debate about it.
Why?
Quote from: saffron sam2 on February 04, 2008, 08:26:45 PM
You have posted this before and I left it then, but I have been troubled by it.
QuoteSPANISH FAN APPLAUDS THE GREEN AND WHITE ARMY
20/12/2007
'THE Northern Ireland fans are the best football supporters I have ever met in my entire life.'
Northern Ireland fans don't ever change."
We are constantly told that NI fans have changed, or is it just the atmosphere that has changed. I'm confused - have you or haven't you changed from the worst of the sectarian excesses?
I really didn't think it was difficult, but to make it absolutely clear, having observed that the NI fans were the best he'd seen, Jose expressed the wish that we don't change i.e. from the way we supported our team and behaved. It's no big deal, except that it hasn't always been like that (indeed may not always be), so we don't expect a medal.
It's just that we don't expect the sort of abuse and misrepresentation which is routinely meted out from certain quarters either, including by some posters on this forum, so that it's nice to point to a neutral's account in setting the record straight.
Quote from: saffron sam2 on February 04, 2008, 08:26:45 PM
Something for you to ponder as you belt out the English National anthem on Wednesday, I reckon.
1. It's not the "English National Anthem, it's the British National Anthem;
2. I don't even sing it, never mind "belt it out" at NI matches;
3. I respect it, however, in the same way as I do e.g. the Soldiers Song at Ireland rugby matches (and would were I to attend a GAA match where it is played);
4. I have consistently advocated that we should replace GSTQ with a distinctively NI anthem.
You know, petty sniping of this kind is really rather boring, especially when it is directed against posters who don't even hold the sort of views which you routinely seem to ascribe to them i.e. "themmuns".
Please refer yourself to my post timed at 9:46:58pm.
Hope this helps.
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 04, 2008, 02:26:06 PM
Quote from: Fishbat on February 03, 2008, 08:56:43 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 01, 2008, 07:19:17 PM
I remember a (Prod) mate of mine at College pulled a good one one Ash Wednesday. He went into the student bar at lunchtime, where he sat down and chatted with several groups of people. Mid-conversation, he'd suddenly say to one of the Prods in the group: "You've got something on your forehead" and go to dab it off for them with his finger. What they didn't know was that he'd just dipped his finger in his cigarette ash, and was actually dabbing it on!
Some of his "victims" went around all day with it on before they realised why everyone was grinning at them all the time. :D
aye deadly altogether...
Well, it raised a laugh, but maybe it isn't sophisticated enough for you or something?
Quote from: Fishbat on February 03, 2008, 08:56:43 PM
""Long after the final whistle in Gran Canaria had sounded the death knell of Northern Ireland's Euro 2008 hopes, 4,000 green and white fans were still doing the "bouncey" and singing "We're not Brazil, we're Northern Ireland.""
Cringe factor is off the scale
So you find it cringeworthy that some football fans manage to enjoy themselves after a game? The fact is, these fans had travelled a long way, it was the end of an enjoyable campaign, they were on a holiday isle, with many of the fans having brought their family for a week oh, and they were being kept back by the local police until the home fans had dispersed. What would you have preferred them to do? Sit around moaning, or wreck the place or something? Or is it that you aren't comfortable with having some of your prejudices challenged, so feel the need to sneer?
Anyway, if you found that little description hard to take, you'll possibly cringe to death on this one. I hope.
SPANISH FAN APPLAUDS THE GREEN AND WHITE ARMY
20/12/2007
'THE Northern Ireland fans are the best football supporters I have ever met in my entire life.'
These are the words of one Spanish fan who was at the Euro 2008 qualifier at the Estadio de Gran Canaria in Las Palmas on November 21.
Jose Vizcaíno emailed the Irish FA to say that our supporters are simply the best!
This is what Jose said:
"I'm sending this email from Las Palmas de Gran Canaria, where your national squad recently played a qualifying match against Spain. Unfortunately your boys didn't make it after fighting all the way, but the main reason for this message is to thank your fans... they are the best supporters I've ever seen in my life.
"I was at the stadium and they are the best example of what supporters should be like, cheering non stop, singing their songs, saying goodbye to local supporters, and while they were losing and the Swedish were winning! The whole island is commenting on that, even the local news mentioned how proud you should be of your supporters.
"After the match.... no problems at all - I stayed after the match drinking with your fans, singing, exchanging flags, shirts, and some good laughs! And there were no problems with anyone. Thank you, thank you, thank you Northern Ireland fans for being the way you are!! You'll always be in our hearts in the Canaries, and next time... your squad has to make it the Finals for your supporters! Northern Ireland fans don't ever change."
All that and with a name like Jose Vizcaino, probably a Fenian as well... :D
about as funny as a burning orphanage, to quote Bernard Manning - guess ye had to be there
Well done for behaving like any other normal civilised people and not wrecking the place - tufty badges all round.
Have to go now and uncurl my toes with a pair of pliers
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 04, 2008, 04:27:02 PM
Quote from: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on February 04, 2008, 04:09:51 PM
Quote from: Chrisowc on February 04, 2008, 04:02:11 PM
Quote"Who are you to tell anyone living a couple of thousand miles away how they should see themselves?"
Oh the irony.
Care to explain the irony?
Ach now. "As British as Finchley" springs to mind, obviously.
Doesn't really do it for me, I'm afraid. You see, telling us who you are, or even who we should be, is one thing; since whether we see ourselves as British/Irish/Northern Irish etc, we each have a stake (and therefore a say) in the whole Britain/Ireland debate.
By what special qualification do you reserve to yourself the right to pass comment on the people of Spain and the Canaries? Some Graffiti and "An old bloke in a Bar" is hardly enough; you'd need to add "The Cab Driver who took me to the Airport" to establish a real rock-solid case... ::)
Thought that'd make ye smile, EG. As I have said on many occasions in this anonymous chatroom, I'm not into forcing anyone to call themselves what I want, but I would, of course, support any sensible and mature debate for self-determination - including listening to, and participating in such debates in the Canaries, Spain or anywhere. It's a point of view which of course you don't need to accept.
Chris, the irony is, however, that the issues in this part of the island have not yet been resolved and some form of Britishness is still imposed on me and other likeminded people by a government who I have no direct right to elect. That is the irony, and an age old situation which you are well aware of.
Incidentally, the cab driver was from Britain and as bull dog as they come. But he was British, which I accept, and I'm not, which no doubt he accepted too.
In the interests of mutual acceptance and respect, have a pancake on me.
Quote from: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on February 05, 2008, 08:24:08 AM
I'm not into forcing anyone to call themselves what I want, but I would, of course, support any sensible and mature debate for self-determination - including listening to, and participating in such debates in the Canaries, Spain or anywhere. It's a point of view which of course you don't need to accept.
I, too, support sensible debate on issues such as self-determination, though I don't consider I have any right to "participate in" any such debate in Spain/Canaries, never mind issue a prescriptive judgement such as:
"Any self-respecting Gran Canarian wouldn't support Spain anyhow - I've seen the graffiti in Playa del Inglés: "The Canaries are not Spanish". before I've even heard the debate!
Quote from: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on February 05, 2008, 08:24:08 AM
Chris, the irony is, however, that the issues in this part of the island have not yet been resolved
(Not speaking for Chris, btw). Well, if an all-Ireland vote achieving 90% acceptance, an internationally recognised Treaty between the British and Irish Governments and three local elections where 90% of the Electorate endorsed the subsequent devolved Government for NI isn't "resolution" enough for you, them I hardly know what is. Perhaps we should just let
you decide what is best for all of us - that's if you've finished telling the Spanish what to do...
Quote from: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on February 05, 2008, 08:24:08 AM
some form of Britishness is still imposed on me and other likeminded people by a government who I have no direct right to elect. That is the irony, and an age old situation which you are well aware of.
Actually, if ever you can persuade enough like-minded people to achive a majority at Stormont, I have no doubt there would be a Referendum on the border within 12 months which, presumably, would produce the United Ireland you seek. So effectively it's not true to say you have no right to self-determination by direct election.
And should that day ever arrive and I'm still alive to see it, I will accept it completely. And getting back (approximately) to the subject of this thread, if FIFA should subsequently decide there should only be one international Irish soccer team, I'll accept that too. Mind you, in saying that latter, I might just be "writing a cheque which will never be cashed", if this is any precedent:
http://www.hkfa.com/en/index.php?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_national_football_team
Anyone know the Cantonese for "Onwards and Upwards"? ;)
P.S. I think I'll pass on ther pancake if you don't mind, since I've always associatiated them with tossers:
Tuesday, February 05, 2008
By Linda McKee
The Belfast Giants have helped to set a new world record for the most pancakes being tossed simultaneously.
The Giants teamed up with Ulster bakery Kingsmill in preparing for Pancake Tuesday in style as they formed part of a team of 206 involved.
They tossed pancakes simultaneously for 30 seconds, breaking the previous record of 108 which was set by the Scout Association on TV programme Blue Peter last year.
Jonathan Todd and Stephen Robinson, both maths teachers at Bangor Grammar School, were on hand at Belfast's Odyssey Arena to independently measure the world record attempt.
Now Kingsmill is awaiting verification from the Guinness World Record Management Team which will hopefully reward the brand with the record-breaking title. Kingsmill marketing executive Andrew Hollywood said he was delighted and relieved to break the world record.
"It was brilliant to see all the frying pans lined up and I was thrilled at the giant effort put into the record attempt by the Belfast Giants and their supporters."
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 05, 2008, 01:04:35 PM
Quote from: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on February 05, 2008, 08:24:08 AM
Chris, the irony is, however, that the issues in this part of the island have not yet been resolved
(Not speaking for Chris, btw). Well, if an all-Ireland vote achieving 90% acceptance, an internationally recognised Treaty between the British and Irish Governments and three local elections where 90% of the Electorate endorsed the subsequent devolved Government for NI isn't "resolution" enough for you, them I hardly know what is. Perhaps we should just let you decide what is best for all of us - that's if you've finished telling the Spanish what to do...
EG, its amazing how many times you have made that point, you know as well as anyone that a huge amount of the people on this island didnt sign up to this as a final resolution.
More so a stepping stone towards a united Ireland WITHOUT violence.
You may not like it, but this is undeniable fact.
I'm not getting into this whole silly row again, but dont be suggestion we are all happy to keep things as they are. This is untrue.
Quote from: his holiness nb on February 05, 2008, 01:10:10 PM
EG, its amazing how many times you have made that point, you know as well as anyone that a huge amount of the people on this island didnt sign up to this as a final resolution.
More so a stepping stone towards a united Ireland WITHOUT violence.
You may not like it, but this is undeniable fact.
I'm not getting into this whole silly row again, but dont be suggestion we are all happy to keep things as they are. This is untrue.
The people of Ireland voted overwhelmingly in 1998 for the resolution known as the GFA in order to determine how NI should be governed. This was not "conditional" nor "temporary", but neither does it bind successive generations should they subsequently wish to change it. Consequently, we are where we are and
until or unless the political situation in NI changes radically - something which 10 years of successive elections demonstrates hasn't happened - then that is the basis under which everyone must proceed for the foreseeable future.
Quite simply, if you don't like it, change it. And if you can't change it, put up with it. Above all, spare us this incessant whinging about "stepping stones" etc, because it is becoming ever more tiresome.
P.S. There are many aspects of the GFA which I abhorred, but even if I hadn't been prepared to accept the overall package, I hope I would have accepted that just about everyone else did.
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 05, 2008, 01:28:45 PM
The people of Ireland voted overwhelmingly in 1998 for the resolution known as the GFA in order to determine how NI should be governed. This was not "conditional" nor "temporary", but neither does it bind successive generations should they subsequently wish to change it. Consequently, we are where we are and until or unless the political situation in NI changes radically - something which 10 years of successive elections demonstrates hasn't happened - then that is the basis under which everyone must proceed for the foreseeable future.
Correct.
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 05, 2008, 01:28:45 PM
Quite simply, if you don't like it, change it. And if you can't change it, put up with it.
Who said I dont like it?
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 05, 2008, 01:28:45 PM
Above all, spare us this incessant whinging about "stepping stones" etc, because it is becoming ever more tiresome.
Incessant whingeing???
EG, this is how many many people viewed it, and still do. You may not like it, or agree with it, but the fact that this is how many many people view it is undeniable.
I'm not whingeing about it at all, just pointing out that your opinion as to why people voted doesnt become true just because you keep saying it, incessantly whingeing one might say.
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 05, 2008, 01:28:45 PM
P.S. There are many aspects of the GFA which I abhorred, but even if I hadn't been prepared to accept the overall package, I hope I would have accepted that just about everyone else did.
I accepted it too. But nobody said this is it, this is final, no more developments. Give up the goal of a united Ireland as it wont happen.
If they did, the votes would have been cast very differently I suspect.
I accept your reasons for voting and your understanding, but to suggest the "stepping stone" idea wasnt in the minds of nationalists when voting is naive at the extreme.
Did you think they would give up the entire goal of a united Ireland so easily?
Damn, EG, we could have both gone out to Las Palmas last year and had the Spain/Canaries debate, though I wouldn't have been at the soccer match so me and Pedro would have had to meet you in the bar. Another missed opportunity.
I would certainly support a self-determination vote for the island of Ireland, if that's what you're asking. But then we had that in 1918 and it was overlooked/fudged/ignored/rail-roaded into the 'two state' "solution". Still, the powers that be are working on an end result as speedily as our loyalist friends can cope with up in Stormont. I'm more than happy to wait a little while.
Having said that, it's not really about the MLAs anyhow, rather what Brown and Bertie decide and our local reps 'deliver'.
Oh, and thanks for replying on belhalf of Chrisowc.
Quote from: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on February 05, 2008, 01:39:53 PM
Oh, and thanks for replying on belhalf of Chrisowc.
Which part of:
"(Not speaking for Chris, btw)" didn't you understand? ???
Quote from: his holiness nb on February 05, 2008, 01:38:58 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 05, 2008, 01:28:45 PM
Quite simply, if you don't like it, change it. And if you can't change it, put up with it.
Who said I dont like it?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought you had consistently said you disliked the "choice" before you in the GFA vote, in that registering your opposition to continuing violence didn't at the same time
also allow you to register your opposition to NI remaining part of the UK.
For the foreseeable future, NI will remain part of the UK; therefore since that need not negate or remove your long-term aspiration for a United Ireland, why not accept it gracefully? After all, the Shinners have (well, maybe not gracefully, but you know what I mean ;))
Quote from: his holiness nb on February 05, 2008, 01:38:58 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 05, 2008, 01:28:45 PM
Above all, spare us this incessant whinging about "stepping stones" etc, because it is becoming ever more tiresome.
Incessant whingeing???
EG, this is how many many people viewed it, and still do. You may not like it, or agree with it, but the fact that this is how many many people view it is undeniable.
I'm not whingeing about it at all, just pointing out that your opinion as to why people voted doesnt become true just because you keep saying it, incessantly whingeing one might say.
As Eamonn McCann has articulated so forcefully elsewhere, NI Nationalists have had to accept that whatever battles may have been "won" along the way, their "war" (i.e. to get the Brits Out) has been lost. Therefore, as an exercise in saving face, they have had to console themselves with increasingly futile mantras (e.g. "We haven't gone away, you know", "I never voted for that", "stepping stone"), or with pursuing symbolic causes (e.g. Roadsigns in Irish), or by attacking symbolic representations of the NI state (e.g. its football team - even to the extent for some of them of taking the absurd position of supporting England in 2005!).
Of course, they are entirely entitled to do so, but the more we all see of Chuckle Brother No.2 snuggling up to Chuckle Brother No.1, the more ludicrous this whole ancilliary posturing becomes. Indeed, it is about as convincing as the Orange Order marching up to a checkpoint, presenting a piece of paper to some bored Peeler, then turning round and marching back the way they came. Pathetic.
Quote from: his holiness nb on February 05, 2008, 01:38:58 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 05, 2008, 01:28:45 PM
P.S. There are many aspects of the GFA which I abhorred, but even if I hadn't been prepared to accept the overall package, I hope I would have accepted that just about everyone else did.
I accepted it too. But nobody said this is it, this is final, no more developments. Give up the goal of a united Ireland as it wont happen.
If they did, the votes would have been cast very differently I suspect.
I accept your reasons for voting and your understanding, but to suggest the "stepping stone" idea wasnt in the minds of nationalists when voting is naive at the extreme.
Did you think they would give up the entire goal of a united Ireland so easily?
Indeed it was not "final", nor like e.g. the Easter 1916 Proclamation, could it ever have been so. But while Nationalists must be entirely free to retain the very aspiration which defines them, it might be better all round if they
also accepted that for
the foreseeable future, that aspiration is not going to be realised and just get on with participating in the running of NI on that basis. Indeed, by taking a more pragmatic, less begrudging stance, they might actually move
closer to achieving their aspiration (imo), since that offers a better chance of persuading their Unionist fellow islanders to come round to their point of view and accept a United Ireland.
[Come to think of it, as a Unionist, it actually
suits my cause and that of Unionist Unity to observe e.g. SF striking another decisive blow against Bruddish Imperialisum by ridding Limavady Town Hall of Princess Diana mugs! :D]
Meanwhile, back in the real world, I'm beginning to get excited by the build-up to the big game at Windsor tomorrow night. Anyone running a book on how many Kaflicks will be there, yet? Are you there Donagh?
P.S. Sorry, forgot that someone told me that Donagh goes to Bingo on Wednesday nights. Apparently you always know when he's in the hall, since when everyone else is shouting "House", he's the one shouting "Connolly House"... ;)
A long rant EG, which pretty much gives us nothing you, topped off with the usual smart "back in the real world" comments and a wee "connolly house" thrown in.
I stand by my post, I didnt cheer for England against NI, I accept the current status quo (call it graceful if you want :-\), dont say "we havent gone away you know", or attack the NI football team.
I just portrayed my view on the agreement, yet get all these stereotypes lumped onto me for doing so ::)
Whatever you view on it, or what others people said in articles, the "stepping stone" was what many many people had in mind when voting.
This is fact. Feel free to ridicule them / us.
People can see things as a stepping stone if they wish.
Nobody could have predicted what happened over the years in NI now.
I laugh when people confidently predict a united ireland by 2016, but dont know that it will never happen - i would doubt it could happen so soon.
The fact is that those who are sure it will happen laugh at those who dont believe it, and those that dont believe it will laugh at those who think it will happen. We hear it on here all the time - confident predictions of the future when nobody is really in the know
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 05, 2008, 02:27:06 PM
Quote from: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on February 05, 2008, 01:39:53 PM
Oh, and thanks for replying on belhalf of Chrisowc.
Which part of: "(Not speaking for Chris, btw)" didn't you understand? ???
Sorry, so now I'm stupid and a tosser, ha ha.
It must be bad cop, nasty cop in OWC land today. Or is the (minimum of) two-headed hydra having a vindictive snake hair day.
Quote from: nifan on February 05, 2008, 03:53:34 PM
People can see things as a stepping stone if they wish.
Nobody could have predicted what happened over the years in NI now.
I laugh when people confidently predict a united ireland by 2016, but dont know that it will never happen - i would doubt it could happen so soon.
The fact is that those who are sure it will happen laugh at those who dont believe it, and those that dont believe it will laugh at those who think it will happen. We hear it on here all the time - confident predictions of the future when nobody is really in the know
Why do you laugh whenever you say yourself no one knows what the future holds? is it a reluctance to even accept the possibility of an united ireland in the future?
Quote from: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on February 05, 2008, 08:24:08 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 04, 2008, 04:27:02 PM
Quote from: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on February 04, 2008, 04:09:51 PM
Quote from: Chrisowc on February 04, 2008, 04:02:11 PM
Quote"Who are you to tell anyone living a couple of thousand miles away how they should see themselves?"
Oh the irony.
Care to explain the irony?
Ach now. "As British as Finchley" springs to mind, obviously.
Doesn't really do it for me, I'm afraid. You see, telling us who you are, or even who we should be, is one thing; since whether we see ourselves as British/Irish/Northern Irish etc, we each have a stake (and therefore a say) in the whole Britain/Ireland debate.
By what special qualification do you reserve to yourself the right to pass comment on the people of Spain and the Canaries? Some Graffiti and "An old bloke in a Bar" is hardly enough; you'd need to add "The Cab Driver who took me to the Airport" to establish a real rock-solid case... ::)
Thought that'd make ye smile, EG. As I have said on many occasions in this anonymous chatroom, I'm not into forcing anyone to call themselves what I want, but I would, of course, support any sensible and mature debate for self-determination - including listening to, and participating in such debates in the Canaries, Spain or anywhere. It's a point of view which of course you don't need to accept.
Chris, the irony is, however, that the issues in this part of the island have not yet been resolved and some form of Britishness is still imposed on me and other likeminded people by a government who I have no direct right to elect. That is the irony, and an age old situation which you are well aware of.
In the interests of mutual acceptance and respect, have a pancake on me.
I still fail to see the Irony here. That is, unless you are saying I am somehow imposing some form of Britishness on you? The only way I can personally affect that is through voting in elections and such like. That's democracy, I'm afraid.
Cheers for the pancake btw ;)
Quote from: stiffler on February 05, 2008, 05:37:29 PM
Why do you laugh whenever you say yourself no one knows what the future holds? is it a reluctance to even accept the possibility of an united ireland in the future?
I laugh because i find the suggestion of a 2016 date VERY adventurous - i could be proved wrong.
As I said I have no idea what the future holds - and i thought i had highlighted i dont know if a united ireland will happen.
Quote from: Chrisowc on February 05, 2008, 05:58:25 PM
Quote from: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on February 05, 2008, 08:24:08 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 04, 2008, 04:27:02 PM
Quote from: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on February 04, 2008, 04:09:51 PM
Quote from: Chrisowc on February 04, 2008, 04:02:11 PM
Quote"Who are you to tell anyone living a couple of thousand miles away how they should see themselves?"
Oh the irony.
Care to explain the irony?
Ach now. "As British as Finchley" springs to mind, obviously.
Doesn't really do it for me, I'm afraid. You see, telling us who you are, or even who we should be, is one thing; since whether we see ourselves as British/Irish/Northern Irish etc, we each have a stake (and therefore a say) in the whole Britain/Ireland debate.
By what special qualification do you reserve to yourself the right to pass comment on the people of Spain and the Canaries? Some Graffiti and "An old bloke in a Bar" is hardly enough; you'd need to add "The Cab Driver who took me to the Airport" to establish a real rock-solid case... ::)
Thought that'd make ye smile, EG. As I have said on many occasions in this anonymous chatroom, I'm not into forcing anyone to call themselves what I want, but I would, of course, support any sensible and mature debate for self-determination - including listening to, and participating in such debates in the Canaries, Spain or anywhere. It's a point of view which of course you don't need to accept.
Chris, the irony is, however, that the issues in this part of the island have not yet been resolved and some form of Britishness is still imposed on me and other likeminded people by a government who I have no direct right to elect. That is the irony, and an age old situation which you are well aware of.
In the interests of mutual acceptance and respect, have a pancake on me.
I still fail to see the Irony here. That is, unless you are saying I am somehow imposing some form of Britishness on you? The only way I can personally affect that is through voting in elections and such like. That's democracy, I'm afraid.
Cheers for the pancake btw ;)
irony? stick your democracy lecture up your hole ffs. where was democracy when it didnt suit you..
When did democracy not suit me?
4th may 1921, unionists weren't big fans of democracy but we wont go there will we?
Quote from: magickingdom on February 05, 2008, 11:24:11 PM
4th may 1921, unionists weren't big fans of democracy but we wont go there will we?
In the absence of a Tardis, most of us "can't go there" - it was nearly 87 years ago and all those old enough to bear any responsibility for events of that period would need to be at least 105 years old... ::)
Anywhy, why stop at 1921? I thought we'd been screwing you around for 800 years. :o
nah eg, i never bought the crap about blaming the brits for the famine. this place is surrounded by fish, all we had to do was throw in a rod..
Quote from: Chrisowc on February 05, 2008, 05:58:25 PM
I still fail to see the Irony here. That is, unless you are saying I am somehow imposing some form of Britishness on you? The only way I can personally affect that is through voting in elections and such like. That's democracy, I'm afraid.
Now when did I say
you were personally imposing any Britishness on me? By all means, in this failed, and undemocratically formed statelet, I and my family, and many thousands of others, have endeavoured to retain our Irishness against an onslaught of state-controlled imposition through gerrymandering, direct and indirect discrimination, victimisation, sectarian targetting and the full force of the British militia - all acquiesced, if not sanctioned, by a democratically elected, free, western government.
There is no democracy here, where the only way they could provide any semblance of fair play in governance, after 77 years, was to introduce the D'Hondt method in 1998 (with a number of stallings thanks to the Unionists until 2007)!
So, Chris, don't go on about the fallacy of northern Ireland 'democracy'. It's always been twisted to suit the slim majority in this carved up, bastardised state.
Quote from: his holiness nb on February 05, 2008, 03:30:11 PM
A long rant EG, which pretty much gives us nothing you, topped off with the usual smart "back in the real world" comments and a wee "connolly house" thrown in.
Good man. Out of EG's 1157 posts, I would suggest that 99.91%* would fall into this category. He / she been posting like this since registering on the board. He / she adds nothing to the board. Everyone will twig on eventually.
* I would exempt his / her George McCartney would make a combined IFA / FAI team post from the long rant list, there was some evidence of reasonable thought therein.
Quote from: saffron sam2 on February 06, 2008, 08:23:25 AM
Quote from: his holiness nb on February 05, 2008, 03:30:11 PM
A long rant EG, which pretty much gives us nothing you, topped off with the usual smart "back in the real world" comments and a wee "connolly house" thrown in.
Good man. Out of EG's 1157 posts, I would suggest that 99.91%* would fall into this category. He / she been posting like this since registering on the board. He / she adds nothing to the board. Everyone will twig on eventually.
* I would exempt his / her George McCartney would make a combined IFA / FAI team post from the long rant list, there was some evidence of reasonable thought therein.
"Everyone will twig on eventually" - If I were one of the rest of this Board, I might feel somewhat insulted at the implication of this remark. Any other forecasts for us, oh Wise One? This weekend's Lottery numbers perhaps?
P.S. I like the way you endorse His Holiness's "pretty much gives us nothing" comment with a post which, ahem, pretty much gives us nothing. Very witty... :D
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 06, 2008, 11:47:42 AM
["Everyone will twig on eventually" - If I were one of the rest of this Board, I might feel somewhat insulted at the implication of this remark. Any other forecasts for us, oh Wise One? This weekend's Lottery numbers perhaps?
Correct EG, how dare you saffron sam, many of us have ALREADY twigged on ;)
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 06, 2008, 11:47:42 AM
P.S. I like the way you endorse His Holiness's "pretty much gives us nothing" comment with a post which, ahem, pretty much gives us nothing. Very witty... :D
My post was a response to you lazily lumping stereotypes onto me for giving my opinion as to why many people voted for the current agreement. In my post I clarified that your stereotyping of me was incorrect. Not sure what more you wanted me to "give" ::)
Quote from: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on February 06, 2008, 08:08:32 AM
Now when did I say you were personally imposing any Britishness on me? By all means, in this failed, and undemocratically formed statelet, I and my family, and many thousands of others, have endeavoured to retain our Irishness against an onslaught of state-controlled imposition through gerrymandering, direct and indirect discrimination, victimisation, sectarian targetting and the full force of the British militia - all acquiesced, if not sanctioned, by a democratically elected, free, western government.
You made this generalised sweeping statement 'Any self-respecting Gran Canarian wouldn't support Spain anyhow - I've seen the graffiti in Playa del Inglés: "The Canaries are not Spanish".'
So I asked what place
you had to determine how people living thousands of miles away should view themselves. You then replied 'oh the irony' Implying that I had done the same thing.
I asked you to clarify this and you start going on about from yourself and magickingdom about gerrymandering, victimisation, sectarian targeting - even 1921 ffs!
In asking this question I would have at least liked you to have addressed me rather than society in general but since you can't really justify your statement about Canarians it appears you chose the latter.
Quote from: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on February 06, 2008, 08:08:32 AM
There is no democracy here, where the only way they could provide any semblance of fair play in governance, after 77 years, was to introduce the D'Hondt method in 1998 (with a number of stallings thanks to the Unionists until 2007)!
So, Chris, don't go on about the fallacy of northern Ireland 'democracy'. It's always been twisted to suit the slim majority in this carved up, bastardised state.
You're right of course. 'Democracy' in Northern ;) Ireland sucks with much of it a bitter pill for decent right minded people to swallow, but democracy sucks in a lot of places. As Billy Connolly says - don't vote for them, you'll only encourage them!
At least we are now living in relative normality and can get on with our lives without trying to rip the life and soul out of the place.
Whether we view ourselves as Irish/British or whatever it is only by an accident of birth that we do so. People would do well to remember that.
Quote from: Chrisowc on February 06, 2008, 01:38:07 PM
You made this generalised sweeping statement 'Any self-respecting Gran Canarian wouldn't support Spain anyhow - I've seen the graffiti in Playa del Inglés: "The Canaries are not Spanish".'
So I asked what place you had to determine how people living thousands of miles away should view themselves. You then replied 'oh the irony' Implying that I had done the same thing.
I asked you to clarify this and you start going on about from yourself and magickingdom about gerrymandering, victimisation, sectarian targeting - even 1921 ffs!
In asking this question I would have at least liked you to have addressed me rather than society in general but since you can't really justify your statement about Canarians it appears you chose the latter.
I didn't imply
you had said the same thing about this lovely wee part of the world. Suffice to say, I found it interesting that another part of western Europe had its tribal and political conflicts, much like Belgium and Spain/Catalonia proper I guess and that, in some ways, we could all learn from trying to understand these issues, rather than whitewashing situations as black and white.
As I have said in here before, northern Ireland is a prime example of where joint sovereignty is the next step in this process and it should not just be seen as pure British territory anymore.
PS I didn't mention 1921 though magickindom's contribution was not unwelcome - even if I'm sure he meant 6 December 1921 rather than 4 May!
Fair enough ;)
Oh, by the way, could you pass on my response to Evil Genius next time you 'see' him as I think he wanted to know also!
What's the story with Prods and Lent? Few ones in here today talking about fasting and vigils– are they just copying us or has Lent become the new Christmas? Will this cause problems with the Kaflick count tonight? Will the Prods be sporting ashes while the Kaflicks stay away in favour of the 7.30 vigil Mass? Maybe the defenders at the turnstiles could use one of these instead.
(http://www.ashantieyewear.co.uk/graphics/pd1.jpg)
Quote from: Donagh on February 06, 2008, 04:28:38 PM
What's the story with Prods and Lent? Few ones in here today talking about fasting and vigils– are they just copying us or has Lent become the new Christmas? Will this cause problems with the Kaflick count tonight? Will the Prods be sporting ashes while the Kaflicks stay away in favour of the 7.30 vigil Mass? Maybe the defenders at the turnstiles could use one of these instead.
(http://www.ashantieyewear.co.uk/graphics/pd1.jpg)
Prods celebrate (is that the right word??) lent as well, it's not just an RC thing.
those pesky prods will be reading the bible next donagh :D
Quote from: SammyG on February 06, 2008, 04:31:05 PM
Prods celebrate (is that the right word??) lent as well, it's not just an RC thing.
RC? As in
Roman Catholic? Do they do it as well then? Boysaboy things sure have become confusing in this new agreed Ireland of ours.
Quote from: Donagh on February 06, 2008, 04:41:27 PM
Quote from: SammyG on February 06, 2008, 04:31:05 PM
Prods celebrate (is that the right word??) lent as well, it's not just an RC thing.
RC? As in Roman Catholic? Do they do it as well then? Boysaboy things sure have become confusing in this new agreed Ireland of ours.
I have absolutely no idea what that post means.
i think the point was that catholics who come from rome would be RC whereas catholics tend to just be catholics (i.e. not roman catholics).
Nice one that the BBC are webcasting the NI match globally instead of the usual just in the UK thing they almost do
Quote from: SammyG on February 06, 2008, 04:43:10 PM
I have absolutely no idea what that post means.
Where did you hideaway to Sammy, I haven't seen you here since I challenged you to a bet
to either put up or shut on Dec 17 2.19 PM
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=4321.msg215436#msg215436 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=4321.msg215436#msg215436)
Are you still on?
Quote from: Main Street on February 06, 2008, 07:12:34 PM
Quote from: SammyG on February 06, 2008, 04:43:10 PM
I have absolutely no idea what that post means.
Where did you hideaway to Sammy, I haven't seen you here since I challenged you to a bet
to either put up or shut on Dec 17 2.19 PM
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=4321.msg215436#msg215436 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=4321.msg215436#msg215436)
Are you still on?
Haven't been on since before Christmas, my laptop blew up and I lost my password.
More than happy to take your bet, especially since all the defectors have come back to the original and best Ireland. What sort of time period did you have in mind?
On my way home from work there my mate told me theres a fella from his work from Cavan going to the match.With ashes on his head...Going to support Bulgaria...He's sitting in the spion kop....Brave man....or a silly man?
Quote from: The Watcher Pat on February 06, 2008, 07:17:54 PM
On my way home from work there my mate told me theres a fella from his work from Cavan going to the match.With ashes on his head...Going to support Bulgaria...He's sitting in the spion kop....Brave man....or a silly man?
The sweat will run them off.
Quote from: SammyG on February 06, 2008, 07:17:34 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 06, 2008, 07:12:34 PM
Quote from: SammyG on February 06, 2008, 04:43:10 PM
I have absolutely no idea what that post means.
Where did you hideaway to Sammy, I haven't seen you here since I challenged you to a bet
to either put up or shut on Dec 17 2.19 PM
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=4321.msg215436#msg215436 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=4321.msg215436#msg215436)
Are you still on?
Haven't been on since before Christmas, my laptop blew up and I lost my password.
More than happy to take your bet, especially since all the defectors have come back to the original and best Ireland. What sort of time period did you have in mind?
I do feel obliged to tell you that Ruairi Harkan has been recalled to the u19 squad and 2 lads from Derry were called up for the first time, David McDaid and Seamus Sharkey.
After telling you that my conscience is clear.
David McDaid was capped last night
http://fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2845 (http://fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2845)
The others will probably be capped in the 2nd game.
What else do you need to know?
How long time period do you want?
Quote from: Main Street on February 07, 2008, 12:39:06 AMI do feel obliged to tell you that Ruairi Harkan has been recalled to the u19 squad and 2 lads from Derry were called up for the first time, David McDaid and Seamus Sharkey.
After telling you that my conscience is clear.
David McDaid was capped last night
http://fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2845 (http://fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2845)
The others will probably be capped in the 2nd game.
Obviously need to check but I'm 90% sure that, the Derry lads, have only ever represented the RoI and are therefore (obviously) entitled to play for them. The bet is about players switching.
Well lads any update on the count? Can't say I saw many people with da ashes on the Lisburn Rd before the match but it was dark. Surely in the light of the stadium you would have noticed loads of them? What about among the English supporters?
Didnt see any at the match donagh, and saw very few amongst the boyos watching the brazil match in the bar afterwards - maybe more prods than catholics support the ROI as well.
I have to say i noticed less people in general with ashes than usual.
Quote from: SammyG on February 07, 2008, 08:09:31 AM
Quote from: Main Street on February 07, 2008, 12:39:06 AMI do feel obliged to tell you that Ruairi Harkan has been recalled to the u19 squad and 2 lads from Derry were called up for the first time, David McDaid and Seamus Sharkey.
After telling you that my conscience is clear.
David McDaid was capped last night
http://fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2845 (http://fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2845)
The others will probably be capped in the 2nd game.
Obviously need to check but I'm 90% sure that, the Derry lads, have only ever represented the RoI and are therefore (obviously) entitled to play for them. The bet is about players switching.
The bet is not just about players switching where did you pluck that one from.
You dont have the first clue what international eligibility is about.
How can an uncapped player born, like McDaid born in one federation area qualify for another federation without fulfilling the annex criteria?
The answer is - the Annex criteria do not apply
Original Post from December
a bet?
SammyG
"On what? iIf you mean a bet on whether any NI players (who don't already qualify) will play for the FAI, then I'd take that bet in a heartbeat (and I don't even gamble much)".[/quote]
Main Street
"A bet that the current situation, is that players who are Irish citizens born in NI are entitled to declare for the Republic under article 15 paragraph 1-5
That the annex conditions do not apply
That the FAI can select players born in NI who are Irish citizens who have not been previously capped at senior level for NI.
That again the annex conditions do not apply".
Quote from: nifan on February 07, 2008, 11:56:06 AM
I have to say i noticed less people in general with ashes than usual.
A bit like the annual Poppy count then, nifan.
I wonder how Poles identify themselves..
Polish?
QuoteA bit like the annual Poppy count then, nifan.
very much so
No self respecting Pole would ever consider himself Polish ::)
Quote from: nifan on February 07, 2008, 01:02:59 PM
QuoteA bit like the annual Poppy count then, nifan.
very much so
Good to see, then, that these annual portrayals of one's culture, identity, tradition or sectarian background are gradually being eradicated from this new island of ours.
Quote from: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on February 07, 2008, 01:25:43 PM
Quote from: nifan on February 07, 2008, 01:02:59 PM
QuoteA bit like the annual Poppy count then, nifan.
very much so
Good to see, then, that these annual portrayals of one's culture, identity, tradition or sectarian background are gradually being eradicated from this new island of ours.
Not sure if you are being sarcastic or serious. Do you think it is a good thing that less people wear ash or poppies? Or that there is the perception that less people are doing so anyway.
Quote from: Main Street on February 07, 2008, 12:50:34 PM
Quote from: SammyG on February 07, 2008, 08:09:31 AM
Quote from: Main Street on February 07, 2008, 12:39:06 AMI do feel obliged to tell you that Ruairi Harkan has been recalled to the u19 squad and 2 lads from Derry were called up for the first time, David McDaid and Seamus Sharkey.
After telling you that my conscience is clear.
David McDaid was capped last night
http://fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2845 (http://fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2845)
The others will probably be capped in the 2nd game.
Obviously need to check but I'm 90% sure that, the Derry lads, have only ever represented the RoI and are therefore (obviously) entitled to play for them. The bet is about players switching.
The bet is not just about players switching where did you pluck that one from.
You dont have the first clue what international eligibility is about.
How can an uncapped player born, like McDaid born in one federation area qualify for another federation without fulfilling the annex criteria?
The answer is - the Annex criteria do not apply
Original Post from December
a bet?
SammyG "On what? iIf you mean a bet on whether any NI players (who don't already qualify) will play for the FAI, then I'd take that bet in a heartbeat (and I don't even gamble much)".
Main Street
"A bet that the current situation, is that players who are Irish citizens born in NI are entitled to declare for the Republic under article 15 paragraph 1-5
That the annex conditions do not apply
That the FAI can select players born in NI who are Irish citizens who have not been previously capped at senior level for NI.
That again the annex conditions do not apply".[/quote]
you're obviously getting a bit confused as you quote me saying one thing (ie what I actually said) and then accuse me of not saying it? Make your mind up.
p.s. The annex doesn't apply if the players aren't switching (ie if they have never played for a different FA) so e.g. the Derry lads are available to the RoI as they've never represented NI. Players who have represented NI (or any other FA) can only switch if they fulfill the annex conditions. It's not really that difficult. ::)
Fewer people.
Quote from: SammyG on February 07, 2008, 02:05:39 PM
you're obviously getting a bit confused as you quote me saying one thing (ie what I actually said) and then accuse me of not saying it? Make your mind up.
p.s. The annex doesn't apply if the players aren't switching (ie if they have never played for a different FA) so e.g. the Derry lads are available to the RoI as they've never represented NI. Players who have represented NI (or any other FA) can only switch if they fulfill the annex conditions. It's not really that difficult. ::)
Either the annex conditions apply or they do not apply.
There is no inbetween situation where only uncapped players are exempt from the Annex criteria.
How can a any player born in NI play for the Republic if the annex rules apply?
According to the Annex rules, a player (uncapped or capped) born in one federation cannot declare for another unless he fulfills the Annex criteria.
The Annex criteria covers all players born in another federation not just capped players.
EG Clinton Morrison uncapped at any level for any other country has to comply with the Annex criteria in order to play for the Republic a simple passport/citizenship is not enough.
So an uncapped player, born in NI (and not fulfilling any of the annex criteria), declaring for the Republic is evidence that the Annex rules do not apply.
So also it follows that a NI capped player can switch federations if under 21 and uncapped at senior level.
Both examples are equally concrete proof that the Annex criteria do not apply.
Quote from: Main Street on February 07, 2008, 02:26:45 PM
Quote from: SammyG on February 07, 2008, 02:05:39 PM
you're obviously getting a bit confused as you quote me saying one thing (ie what I actually said) and then accuse me of not saying it? Make your mind up.
p.s. The annex doesn't apply if the players aren't switching (ie if they have never played for a different FA) so e.g. the Derry lads are available to the RoI as they've never represented NI. Players who have represented NI (or any other FA) can only switch if they fulfill the annex conditions. It's not really that difficult. ::)
Either the annex conditions apply or they do not apply.
There is no inbetween situation where only uncapped players are exempt from the Annex criteria.
Yes there is that's the whole point of the annex FFS. If you have dual (or even multiple) nationalities, you can choose which one to represent but once you've chosen you can only switch, if you fulfill the annex criteria.
Quote from: Chrisowc on February 07, 2008, 01:41:22 PM
Quote from: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on February 07, 2008, 01:25:43 PM
Quote from: nifan on February 07, 2008, 01:02:59 PM
QuoteA bit like the annual Poppy count then, nifan.
very much so
Good to see, then, that these annual portrayals of one's culture, identity, tradition or sectarian background are gradually being eradicated from this new island of ours.
Not sure if you are being sarcastic or serious. Do you think it is a good thing that less people wear ash or poppies? Or that there is the perception that less people are doing so anyway.
I think it would be a good thing.
Quote from: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on February 07, 2008, 03:35:40 PM
Quote from: Chrisowc on February 07, 2008, 01:41:22 PM
Quote from: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on February 07, 2008, 01:25:43 PM
Quote from: nifan on February 07, 2008, 01:02:59 PM
QuoteA bit like the annual Poppy count then, nifan.
very much so
Good to see, then, that these annual portrayals of one's culture, identity, tradition or sectarian background are gradually being eradicated from this new island of ours.
Not sure if you are being sarcastic or serious. Do you think it is a good thing that less people wear ash or poppies? Or that there is the perception that less people are doing so anyway.
I think it would be a good thing.
I think it is a pity that some would use or view these as devisive.
Hardy, fewer it is. :-[ ;)
Ah, but this is our wee part of the world, Chris. We're all very special people.
Quote from: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on February 07, 2008, 03:47:03 PM
Ah, but this is our wee part of the world, Chris. We're all very special people.
I think you will find it was - 'We are the people!' :D
...our parents warned us about?
Or was that Oscar Wilde.
Anyhow, I don't believe in any emblems, flags or the other.
Quote from: SammyG on February 07, 2008, 02:33:20 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 07, 2008, 02:26:45 PM
Quote from: SammyG on February 07, 2008, 02:05:39 PM
you're obviously getting a bit confused as you quote me saying one thing (ie what I actually said) and then accuse me of not saying it? Make your mind up.
p.s. The annex doesn't apply if the players aren't switching (ie if they have never played for a different FA) so e.g. the Derry lads are available to the RoI as they've never represented NI. Players who have represented NI (or any other FA) can only switch if they fulfill the annex conditions. It's not really that difficult. ::)
Either the annex conditions apply or they do not apply.
There is no inbetween situation where only uncapped players are exempt from the Annex criteria.
Yes there is that's the whole point of the annex FFS. If you have dual (or even multiple) nationalities, you can choose which one to represent but once you've chosen you can only switch, if you fulfill the annex criteria.
No Sammy that is only your understanding. I don't think even Howard Wells believes that now.
However, even with your misunderstanding the bet can still stand because as I stated in my original terms
"
That the FAI can select players born in NI who are Irish citizens who have not been previously capped at senior level for NI. That again the annex conditions do not apply. (and who are under the age of 21 of course)
That means a player can be capped at underage level for NI, still has the right according to Article 15 to declare for the Republic.
I tuned in to watch the game at Windsor. When GSTQ was being played I checked the foreheads of the NI players for ashes as the camera panned across. With absolute certainty, I can say that 9 of the 11 weren't wearing ashes. I couldn't see the other two foreheads (belonging to nos. 6 and 8). They appeared to be trying to hide or something. What was that about?
Hope this helps.
Kafolickism is just a bollix so it is, just like all them there various different theologically-opposing-yet-all-so-together-against-the-great-antiChrist strands of Proddystantism so they are.
Quote from: Main Street on February 07, 2008, 04:05:39 PM
No Sammy that is only your understanding. I don't think even Howard Wells believes that now.
However, even with your misunderstanding the bet can still stand because as I stated in my original terms
"That the FAI can select players born in NI who are Irish citizens who have not been previously capped at senior level for NI. That again the annex conditions do not apply. (and who are under the age of 21 of course)
That means a player can be capped at underage level for NI, still has the right according to Article 15 to declare for the Republic.
So Sammy is this bet on or not?
Or have you reconsidered your position on the matter and realised that you were writing belligerent tosh?
Quote from: Main Street on February 08, 2008, 04:34:05 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 07, 2008, 04:05:39 PM
No Sammy that is only your understanding. I don't think even Howard Wells believes that now.
However, even with your misunderstanding the bet can still stand because as I stated in my original terms
"That the FAI can select players born in NI who are Irish citizens who have not been previously capped at senior level for NI. That again the annex conditions do not apply. (and who are under the age of 21 of course)
That means a player can be capped at underage level for NI, still has the right according to Article 15 to declare for the Republic.
So Sammy is this bet on or not?
Or have you reconsidered your position on the matter and realised that you were writing belligerent tosh?
Keep yer keks on FFS. I haven't been on today.
I'll ask again which bet do you want? your previous post outlines two contradictory positions, which one are you betting for/against?
Quote from: SammyG on February 08, 2008, 06:14:28 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 08, 2008, 04:34:05 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 07, 2008, 04:05:39 PM
No Sammy that is only your understanding. I don't think even Howard Wells believes that now.
However, even with your misunderstanding the bet can still stand because as I stated in my original terms
"That the FAI can select players born in NI who are Irish citizens who have not been previously capped at senior level for NI. That again the annex conditions do not apply. (and who are under the age of 21 of course)
That means a player can be capped at underage level for NI, still has the right according to Article 15 to declare for the Republic.
So Sammy is this bet on or not?
Or have you reconsidered your position on the matter and realised that you were writing belligerent tosh?
Keep yer keks on FFS. I haven't been on today.
I'll ask again which bet do you want? your previous post outlines two contradictory positions, which one are you betting for/against?
Just because you don't know what the eligibility rules are, you think there is a contradiction.
There is no contradiction.
But out of interest why do you think that the annex rules would not apply to an uncapped NI born footballer, when under FIFA regulatons they would apply to an uncapped Scottish born Irish citizen like McGeady.
Sea water makes a difference? because Scotland has no mention of Ireland in its country name? enlighten me
Where is the contradiction with the conditions of this bet?
"A bet that the current situation that FIFA have referred to is
that players who are Irish citizens born in NI are entitled to declare for the Republic under article 15 paragraph 1-5,
that the annex conditions do not apply.
That the FAI
can select players born in NI who are Irish citizens who have not been previously capped at senior level for NI. (but capped at underage level for NI), that the annex conditions do not apply
Both those two conditions have to be met in order for me to win the bet.
You win if you can prove that
That the FAI
cannot select players U21 born in NI who are Irish citizens, who have not been previously capped at senior level for NI. (but capped at underage level for NI) That the annex conditions have to be complied with in order for a NI capped player to change allegiance to the Republic.
Quote from: Main Street on February 12, 2008, 06:46:46 PM
But out of interest why do you think that the annex rules would not apply to an uncapped NI born footballer, when under FIFA regulatons they would apply to an uncapped Scottish born Irish citizen like McGeady.
Sea water makes a difference? because Scotland has no mention of Ireland in its country name? enlighten me
Apples and Pears. McGeady has parents (grandparents?) born in ROI. Had he not, he would not have been entitled to be picked by the FAI, irrespective of his also qualifying for Irish citizenship by whatever means.
Whereas some of the NI-born players currently being picked, post-Annex, do not have a parent/grandparent born in ROI. Now you may consider that their having been born on the island of Ireland gives them equal, even greater eligibility, than the likes of McGeady i.e. the same* as someone born in Cork or Galway. And it may be that the FIFA Rules, as drafted (presumably without the particular circumstances of Ireland in mind), do not require the application of the Annex in order for them to be eligible.
But these NI-born players most definitely are NOT in the same category as the likes of McGeady when it comes to eligibility. Otherwise, if their Irish citizenship was effectively the same as his, then they would have
also have to have a parent/grandparent from the ROI, exactly the same as him.
* - And of course these people born in the Occupied Six are every bit as Irish as those born in the Liberated 26? After all, don't they get to vote in Dail elections just the same? Are liable to pay their Taxes to Dublin just the same? Entitled to the same Housing, Social Services, Healthcare and Education just the same? And State Pension (after having paid the same Contributions)? Yep, exactly the same, no difference at all. Well, except for having to live in the place. But hey, why should someone have to spend two years residing in the Republic, just to prove how much he always wanted to play for them, eh? ::)
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 12, 2008, 08:48:27 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 12, 2008, 06:46:46 PM
But out of interest why do you think that the annex rules would not apply to an uncapped NI born footballer, when under FIFA regulatons they would apply to an uncapped Scottish born Irish citizen like McGeady.
Sea water makes a difference? because Scotland has no mention of Ireland in its country name? enlighten me
Apples and Pears. McGeady has parents (grandparents?) born in ROI. Had he not, he would not have been entitled to be picked by the FAI, irrespective of his also qualifying for Irish citizenship by whatever means.
Would you ever go away to fe'ck.
When you don't understand the question, then it is good advice not to try and answer the Q.
The question is specific for Samuel and if Samuel is aware of what passes for his train of thought then he can answer the Q.
Quote from: Main Street on February 12, 2008, 06:46:46 PM
Quote from: SammyG on February 08, 2008, 06:14:28 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 08, 2008, 04:34:05 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 07, 2008, 04:05:39 PM
No Sammy that is only your understanding. I don't think even Howard Wells believes that now.
However, even with your misunderstanding the bet can still stand because as I stated in my original terms
"That the FAI can select players born in NI who are Irish citizens who have not been previously capped at senior level for NI. That again the annex conditions do not apply. (and who are under the age of 21 of course)
That means a player can be capped at underage level for NI, still has the right according to Article 15 to declare for the Republic.
So Sammy is this bet on or not?
Or have you reconsidered your position on the matter and realised that you were writing belligerent tosh?
Keep yer keks on FFS. I haven't been on today.
I'll ask again which bet do you want? your previous post outlines two contradictory positions, which one are you betting for/against?
Just because you don't know what the eligibility rules are, you think there is a contradiction.
There is no contradiction.
But out of interest why do you think that the annex rules would not apply to an uncapped NI born footballer, when under FIFA regulatons they would apply to an uncapped Scottish born Irish citizen like McGeady.
Sea water makes a difference? because Scotland has no mention of Ireland in its country name? enlighten me
Where is the contradiction with the conditions of this bet?
"A bet that the current situation that FIFA have referred to is
that players who are Irish citizens born in NI are entitled to declare for the Republic under article 15 paragraph 1-5,
that the annex conditions do not apply.
That the FAI can select players born in NI who are Irish citizens who have not been previously capped at senior level for NI. (but capped at underage level for NI), that the annex conditions do not apply
Both those two conditions have to be met in order for me to win the bet.
You win if you can prove that
That the FAI cannot select players U21 born in NI who are Irish citizens, who have not been previously capped at senior level for NI. (but capped at underage level for NI) That the annex conditions have to be complied with in order for a NI capped player to change allegiance to the Republic.
You're still trying to bet on heads and tails at the same time. That's not much of a bet, from my side (obviously it's a decent bet for you).
Try choosing which version, of the ellligibility criteria, you think applies and then we can decide whether I'd like to bet against you or not.
???
"
QuoteA bet that the current situation that FIFA have referred to is
that players who are Irish citizens born in NI are entitled to declare for the Republic under article 15 paragraph 1-5,
that the annex conditions do not apply.
That the FAI can select players born in NI who are Irish citizens who have not been previously capped at senior level for NI. (but capped at underage level for NI), that the annex conditions do not apply
Both those two conditions have to be met in order for me to win the bet.
Okay Samuel I will write it very slowly
I have 2 conditions to prove before I win the bet, one has already been proven so it leaves just one left.
'That the FAI can select players born in NI who are Irish citizens who have not been previously capped at senior level for NI. (but capped at underage level for NI), that the annex conditions do not applyYou win if you can prove that
That the FAI cannot select players U21 born in NI who are Irish citizens, who have not been previously capped at senior level for NI. (but capped at underage level for NI) That the annex conditions have to be complied with in order for a NI capped player to change allegiance to the Republic.
Are you on or not? Can it be written any simpler?
Sammy I would appreciate you to answer this question that I asked already
You think the annex rules apply to capped NI born players who want to declare for the Republic.
Why do you think that the annex rules would not apply to an uncapped NI born footballer declaring for the Republic, when under FIFA regulatons they would apply to an uncapped Scottish born Irish citizen like McGeady.
Sea water makes a difference? because Scotland has no mention of Ireland in its country name?
Quote from: Main Street on February 14, 2008, 01:54:50 PM
Sammy I would appreciate you to answer this question that I asked already
You think the annex rules apply to capped NI born players who want to declare for the Republic.
Why do you think that the annex rules would not apply to an uncapped NI born footballer declaring for the Republic, when under FIFA regulatons they would apply to an uncapped Scottish born Irish citizen like McGeady.
Sea water makes a difference? because Scotland has no mention of Ireland in its country name?
You're making up strawman arguments (again). I have never (never never) said that the annex conditions apply to uncapped players. I know you seem to enjoy arguing two different points of view, at the same time, but that doesn't mean that I agree with you. Just for clarity, I'll repeat my position again. If a player has dual (or multiple) nationalities, then he is free to choose, which of those he plays for. Once he has made that choice he can only switch, if he meets one (or more) of the annex criteria.
As far as McGeady his elligibility is though parents/grandparents (can't remember which and can't be arsed to look it up) so he is completely irrelevant. If somebody from NI has parents/grandparents from the RoI then they are elligible.
Quote from: SammyG on February 14, 2008, 02:02:33 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 14, 2008, 01:54:50 PM
Sammy I would appreciate you to answer this question that I asked already
You think the annex rules apply to capped NI born players who want to declare for the Republic.
Why do you think that the annex rules would not apply to an uncapped NI born footballer declaring for the Republic, when under FIFA regulatons they would apply to an uncapped Scottish born Irish citizen like McGeady.
Sea water makes a difference? because Scotland has no mention of Ireland in its country name?
You're making up strawman arguments (again). I have never (never never) said that the annex conditions apply to uncapped players. I know you seem to enjoy arguing two different points of view, at the same time, but that doesn't mean that I agree with you. Just for clarity, I'll repeat my position again. If a player has dual (or multiple) nationalities, then he is free to choose, which of those he plays for. Once he has made that choice he can only switch, if he meets one (or more) of the annex criteria.
As far as McGeady his elligibility is though parents/grandparents (can't remember which and can't be arsed to look it up) so he is completely irrelevant. If somebody from NI has parents/grandparents from the RoI then they are elligible.
The whole point is that the Republic can choose players and are choosing players from the North who have no connection to the Republic with family or residence, can we get back to the bet which you have not answered.
I win if it is
'That the FAI can select players born in NI who are Irish citizens who have not been previously capped at senior level for NI. (but capped at underage level for NI), that the annex conditions do not apply
You win if you can prove that
That the FAI cannot select players U21 born in NI who are Irish citizens, who have not been previously capped at senior level for NI. (but capped at underage level for NI) That the annex conditions have to be complied with in order for a NI capped player to change allegiance to the Republic.
Are you on or not? Can it be written any simpler?