I read on the Brian McGuigan thread quite a bit of comment on the way that the press, especially in Ulster, is reporting on the game and particularly how they are starting to sensationalise certain stories in an attempt to get people to buy papers.
One comment was about a story that appeared regarding McGuigan's comeback that had no quotes in it at all and it was a fair and correct judgement to make to say that it really was sloppy journalism.
Having worked for a long time in the sports media myself, the one thing that I got very fed up of very quickly was running after managers after matches and getting very benign quotes from them that sad absolutely nothing at all.
Editors are constantly on about getting quotes for all match reports etc etc etc, but you know exactly what most managers are going to say after a game anyway. - Comment on conditions, comment on referee, comment on how hard the lads worked and how they will work hard at training next week, comment about injuries and suspensions and how the Championship is the key - end of comments. It is almost a cut and paste exercise.
As the guys who go out and buy the papers, do you take the comments managers and players make after matches are in any way worth reading and if not, why do editors insist on tracking these people down to get comment.
IMO all we are doing is feeding their egos, and even though some managers will say they hate talking to the press, the one thing I would say is that they can't hate it as much as most of the press hate talkigng to them after games.
The thing is too, once they have given us their pathetic quotes, we then have to go away and type the rubbish up and try and fit it into the context of what happened.
Quotegetting very benign quotes from them that sad absolutely nothing at all.
your not really a journo are you?
as to your point i dont thinkany one take any heed of what a manager/or players says after a match it more going trough the motions . a lot of it has to do with the stupid Questions they are asked like when they win its ' do you think you can go on from here now' answer 'well no direspect to our opponents to day but we will need to inmprove by 50% to be in with a chance in the next game. Or if they loses its , Will you be continuing on as manager next year? might as well add in ya loser
I blamer the questioner not the manager
I don't think it is anyone's fault really, what can a reporter ask any manager other than the type of questions they do ask and what type of reply should the manager give other than the type they do give? I rarely do more than skim through match reports especially during the championship as you generally get to see the highlights at least, on the SG. What I like to read are opinion pieces or interviews with players or managers where you can get some insight of the man himself and his life.
Well certainly from a writer's point of view, the opinion pieces and interviews are a heck of a lot more interesting to put together than the match reports. After the first three or four hundred games you get very fed up of them. At one stage I was doing 9 matches every weekend, 4 on a Saturday and 5 on a Sunday. At 500 words each match it does get a bit bloody boring.
The trouble with questioning after game is that as a journo you have to be careful about the questions you ask because if you go too deep or ask an inappropriate question you mightn't get an answer at all, so you have to manage the situation to make sure you get some copy at least. I nearly got my bollix torn off by John Maughan last year after a Nat League game because he didn't like the question I asked. Other journos had a great laugh at my expense for sticking my head above the parapet.
There are plenty of questions we would like to ask and want to ask but most wouldn't be that welcome. Just ask John Motson of the BBC, he stepped over the line with Fergie and the entire corporation is paying the price ever since. I'm not saying that many of the managers in Ireland are that powerful, but Billy Morgan did take exception to journos last year.
I lot of my breed dream of changing the world but after a while we realise that we are better off letting the status quo be.
I agree many managers are up their own hole when it comes to dealing with the press, though in fairness it is a pressurised job and journalistic criticism can influence public perceptions hugely. I do think that players, and mangers in particular, should make themselves available to the media on a more frequent basis, but the set up for interviews at GAA matches isn't conducive to good copy I'd imagine. Perhaps it could be conducted like professional sports do it, where the manager and one or two players sit at a top table and take questions from the floor. One thing is for sure there needs to be an improvement in this area, because the GAA media are generally a fair bunch and they are only too willing to keep the GAA in the limelight where now more than ever it needs to be.
That's a fair comment Zulu. I think Paddy Heaney summed it up well on TV a few years ago when he said that as a working journalist for a regional daily newspaper covering a specialist area, that it wasn't really in his interest to slag managers and players off without good reason because ultimately they were his bread and butter and if they decided to black ball him he would effectively be doing himself no favours and possibly even doing himself out of a job. We all get it wrong from time to time and occasionally we have an axe to grind but by and large we are all GAA men and do what we can to keep it going. I worked in London and I can tell you one thing, trying to keep it going over there and keep a positive spin on things required a fair bit of artistic and poetic licence. The funny thing being that despite years of often voluntary service to the PR department of the GAA and also my own work in the media, the first time I voiced a concern or criticism of the county board, some muppet of a club delegate raised a motion to have me banned from Ruislip. This despite the fact that the men responsible for putting the board £6m in debt were stilled revered and welcomed in the county. I was in London for over 20 years and served the GAA very well in that time. One poorly received, yet perfectly well-founded and researched article had a number of delegates wanting me hung drawn and quartered. As I pointed out to them the following week, the GAA in London had few enough friends without extraditing the few that they have. The legend of the short-sighted narrow-minded GAA delegate lives on in London.
QuoteI nearly got my bollix torn off by John Maughan last year after a Nat League game because he didn't like the question I asked.
Had you reported this it could have been one of the stories of the year. Too many journalist's who report on games see themselves as part of the GAA and a need to be pally with managers and players esp in local papers. brave writing involves as the question that needs to be asked and writing what you see and hear not what any one wants to hear. which is why youll often find more intesting and informatiuve match coverage here from the semi literates that populate the board than from highly skilful arse lickinh journalist. this is not an endorsment of pat spillane controversy for controversy's sake type reporting ,
on the contrary I want to read real reporting not 'has been' opinion pieces
Quote from: rosnarun on January 14, 2008, 03:42:38 PM
QuoteI want to read real reporting not 'has been' opinion pieces
That was always my objection to that weekly GAA paper in Ulster, far too many "guest columnists" - has beens who can't write getting paid to do a job they can't do.
QuoteI want to read real reporting not 'has been' opinion pieces
I wouldn't entirely agree with that, for example I'd rarely view this board if it was just filled with match reports. The beauty of this or any other board is that it is filled with opinions on GAA related issues, as a result it often gives you pause to re-evaluate your own views on issues. You also often get the inside track on what is going on in certain counties and as such you get a feel for the personalities behind the players or managers you see on the TV.
If I have seen the game myself I know who scored and who played well or poorly so I don't find too many match reports overly informative or interesting. In fact they are often inaccurate in their report of the match. Match reports are fine but well thought out and argued opinion pieces or in depth interviews with GAA personalities are a much better read IMO and do more for the GAA as non-GAA supporters can enjoy them too, which can lead to a greater interest in the games themselves from such people.
I mentioned there were no quotes in that Irish News piece simply for the reason that they'd went to the lengths of using his appearance in the subs list as a reason for a screamer of a headline on the back page indicating his reappearance as a Tyrone player, and when you read the article you realised it was mostly hearsay. They didn't research the possibility of it happening. If interviews were hard to come by (well, non-existent) then it should've been a minor story.
However, the blatantly ballooned it in order to create an eye-catching and sensational back page. I just thought the IN was above that.
I'm not really that annoyed though....
As Oscar Wilde put it "the only thing worse than being talked about is being mis-quoted".
i was havin a chat with mc geeney there recently, says that th only thing worse than being talked abut is finding no toliet roll when hes on th bog
O Neill the IN is as bad as any of them, how many times have you seen a headline in huge bold, the story then makes a vague reference to the headline before going off on a tangent about something else.I agree with Rosnarun about the reporters getting pally with managers thus losing the impartiality they should be striving for. There are plenty of journalists and tv reporters that are in the "back pockets" of managers and certain players so all you ever get is a fawning non story. I actually have stopped,in the main, reading the IN for this reason and get any analysis or Gaa news on this board.
The Brian McGuigan return story probably upped the gate in Ballyshannon on Sunday too. I wonder how many supporters from both camps made the journey looking forward to seeing Brian's promised comeback.
Simply, journalists need managers on side or else they have no career. Think about it, it might not always make sensational reading but, for example, if Paddy Heaney tears strips off Jody Gormley or Paddy Crozier or Mickey Harte in a national newspaper, are they likely to talk to him again? Then instead of usually dull quotes pieces, you would have no interviews and a newspaper full of just match reports....it just makes sense.
I'm sure most of you know, but headlines are written by sub-editors in nearly all cases, rather than by the journalists themselves.
Subbies are looking for a catchy, pithy headline which, hopefully, relates to the story it is headlining, but most importantly, which fits into the space they have available for it.
Journalists may take issue with the headlines to their stories after the fact, but have little control over either them, or the prominence/ position of their story on the page.
I know this comment is not really about quotes, but I hope it does shed light on (apparently?) misleading articles in the papers.
Grassroots, I have to agree with you on that and as a journalist myself I hate the fact that that is the way it is, but if I have ten or twelve pages to fill each week, I need as many friends out there as possible to help me do it. Do we really like a lot of these managers? Not at all. Some of them aren't anywhere near as smart as they like to pretend they are and treat us with quite a bit of contempt (except of course when it suits them). It's a necessity though. On behalf of all like-minded journos I do apologize but our hands are tied and as you quite rightly pointed out, especially with regards to a sport as close-knit and incestuous as the GAA, if we don't pander to them we will get black-balled, and the reader will end up with a load of match reports and nothing else. I know it might appear spineless on our behalf, but when you have a mortgage the size of mine it's amazing just how flexible your backbone becomes. Mind you, there are a few writers out there who love sucking up, real brown-nose merchants.
Best misleading headline ever has to be the Sunday Mirror's "Bushmills sponsors terrorism" (or something to that effect) and the content of the story(about 5 lines) was about Geraoid Adams playing for Antrim!!
QuoteI'm not saying that many of the managers in Ireland are that powerful, but Billy Morgan did take exception to journos last year.
I also believe that Mickey Harte refuses to talk to the Irish Star over a couple of stories they ran.
I have to say, as a reader or viewer, I couldn't really be bothered reading quotes pieces or post-match interviews, unless there was a particular burning issue that I was keen to hear someone's opinion on.
By and large, it's just wasted air or print.
Players are worse, there are very few articulate ones out there and I often cringe when I hear some of them being interviewed.
However, we shouldn't expect great players to be able to come out with great comments.
In fairness to the players, there wouldn't be that many of us would be too articulate if someone stuck a microphone under our noses five minutes after playing in front of a packed house at Casement, Croker or McHale Park. While some of them like the attention, the fact is that they train to be footballers, not TV personalities so what you get is a footballer talking, not a well-briefed, well-drilled politician. They do their best, but I am sure some of them cringe themselves when they hear or read the interviews they have just given
Brendan Crossan in the Irish News has a dig or even dedicates an article now and again about managers who dont always give the media a few quotes (Charlie Mulgrew springs to mind) or unco-operative hostile types (Paul Caffrey), and he makes this out like its depriving the fans of what they expect to hear or read. I would guess though that most fans of county sides wouldn't exactly be scouring reports to get a bland quote from the manager after a McKenna cup game.
Quote from: Fear Boirche on January 15, 2008, 04:44:35 PM
I have to say, as a reader or viewer, I couldn't really be bothered reading quotes pieces or post-match interviews, unless there was a particular burning issue that I was keen to hear someone's opinion on.
Totaly agree. I never find myself looking for a manager's quote the day after a game. I think journalists place too much emphasis on padding out articles with banal soundbites. Everyone can remember how Tyrone won the '05 final. I'd predict a very select few can recall Harte's quotes in the IN on the Monday. Pre-match quotes are a different matter.
Minder I see you have took a swipe at the IN and Paddy Heaney in two different threads, did they give you a bad player rating or something? :)
Quote from: corn02 on January 15, 2008, 10:05:49 PM
Minder I see you have took a swipe at the IN and Paddy Heaney in two different threads, did they give you a bad player rating or something? :)
Not at all, and i dont think i was too scathing. Just an honest opinion. I just think some journalists see themselves as more important than they actually are.
Fair enough boy.
when i read IN on a monday the first thing i look for is the team lineups, the subs that came on and then the scorers--the quotes and match reports are just paper-talk and are usually boring--i'd bet that almost anyone on this board could do a similer match report to any IN journo
In the summer i like to read the player ratings-they are a good read
The thing that is really worth reading are some articles ie against the breeze--Heaneys article today was good--or as mentioned articles that give an insight as to the player himself and his life
Once the players are officially getting 'paid' I expect tp see a big increse in the number of scandal stories about high profile GAA figures on the front pages of the tabloids. Meaths Jmmy McGuinness is a loverat type of thing, was one of the first that I can recall, there was a bit of a backlash on the grounds that GAA players were amateurs and shouldn't have to put with that level of intrusion.
I know they'll be getting a pittance but I'd still be surpised if it didn't start to happen