We were the opposition in this final (beaten by a point again) and we weren't even sure why he got off.
Apparently he was suspended for, at the end of a game offering a handshake to the ref and then pulling his hand away and saying he wouldn't shake hands with a f$^king Pr$%k like that.
Funny thing was the ref for the final was the same chap the incident occurred with and in fairness to him he showed far more restraint then we had hoped for! ;)
But in all seriousness it is getting to the stage where it is going to be impossible to suspend anyone. Do refs now have to write there reports in Irish...that should challenge a few of them!!
'Gaeilge' loophole exposes rules crisis
By Cliona Foley
Thursday November 08 2007
A leading GAA official admitted last night that the association has a "rules crisis" after a controversial decision by the Disputes' Resolution Authority (DRA) made a mockery of the association's recent efforts to re-write its rulebook and get rid of the loopholes that have for so long made its disciplinary system a laughing stock.
Leinster chairman Liam O'Neill (above) was reacting to how a Longford club player (John O'Dowd of Clonguish) had an eight-week suspension lifted by the DRA last Saturday by arguing that a referee (inter-county official Eugene Murtagh), who reported him for verbal abuse, should have written his (O'Dowd's) name in Irish.
Official team lists must be written 'as gaeilge' but referees have habitually written their match reports in English without any previous repercussions and this judgement has not only infuriated officials but left the GAA's top brass worried about its further ramifications.
"There are so many anomalies and loopholes and indeed contradictions in our current rules that any player can avoid punishment if he is willing to go far enough," O'Neill told the Leinster Council last night, calling for a thorough overhaul of the rules to be launched in a year's time.
The DRA, the independent body which the GAA set up as final arbitrator to avoid cases going to the High Court, base their judgements strictly on 'legal argument' and found for the player on this single issue, freeing him to play in Sunday's county league final.
Throw the rule book out , Ask people from the IRB and NFL to write up new rules.
In Irish? Sorry, I mean as gaeilge?
Do I?
Yeah, I seriously think it's time for a complete overhaul of the rules, from A to Z. Writing in proper disciplinery process etc etc. I would get a panel of ex-referees, ex-players, administrators and legal miinds. Someone like Joe Brolly and a certain poster here would actually check 2 of those categories themselves.
I'd set aside a fixed budget, maybe 4-5 million from the coffers, at the expense of any other infrastructure 'improvements' or mad rebuilding projects, and take a year to do it properly. Let next season run along merrily in parallel, warts and all. But have the new rules written in such a way as to deal with the crossover timeframe, the date the new rules come in , everything both logistical and legal.
It's the only way to sort it out once and for all I think.
in the stewartstown v ballymacnab referees report it was just reported that there was a brawl lasting 2 minutes. no players were named which enabled the ulster council to launch an investigation into it and identify the culprits in their own time. any correspondance by the ulster council had the players names in irish. if the referee had have named names in his report in relation to the row it would have been a lot easier to have got men off as 3 players had received double yellows in the game and were sent off and he had their names in english in his report. the ulster council seemed to have had everything watertight (probably why it dragged on) as nobody got their suspensions overturned.
I'd suggest that introducing one new rule might go a very long way to solving the problem - i.e. copy the on-the-spot fines system for road traffic offences, whereby if you take your punishment you get a set penalty, but if you appeal and fail, the penalty is doubled (at least). I think that would cripple the loophole culture fairly substantially.
This latest farce might have the beneficial effect of pointing up the ludicrous tokenism of the "names in Irish" rule and bring an end to it - against the kicking and screaming, no doubt, of those who will claim it will dilute the Association's commitment to the language, despite the fact that we all know it's just a convenient disguise for a complete lack of any real commitment.
There's no such thing as the Irish version of a name. If your name is Jack Black, it's still Jack Black in Irish, just as it doesn't become Johann Schwartz when you go to Germany and just as Seán Óg Ó Hailpín doesn't get asked to call himself Young Johnny Halpin by anybody anywhere.
This rule was bound to be challenged sooner or later anyway - what's the "Irish version" of young Hassan bin Aouid who plays under-16 for the Shamrocks? And you can't say there's no Irish for that, but there is for Jack Black. That would be racist, wouldn't it?
Would have to agree that its time for a substancial overhaul of the rules but the right people would need to be choosen. I would have Jack Anderson head the task force and let him choose who he needs.
QuoteDo refs now have to write there reports in Irish
At the risk ... what the f*ck there's no risk in misbehaving in GAA any more ... Can Wally Flood write his reports in English?
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 08, 2007, 09:39:36 AM
Yeah, I seriously think it's time for a complete overhaul of the rules, from A to Z. Writing in proper disciplinery process etc etc. I would get a panel of ex-referees, ex-players, administrators and legal miinds. Someone like Joe Brolly and a certain poster here would actually check 2 of those categories themselves.
I'd set aside a fixed budget, maybe 4-5 million from the coffers, at the expense of any other infrastructure 'improvements' or mad rebuilding projects, and take a year to do it properly. Let next season run along merrily in parallel, warts and all. But have the new rules written in such a way as to deal with the crossover timeframe, the date the new rules come in , everything both logistical and legal.
It's the only way to sort it out once and for all I think.
I agree,i'd have test case's taken against the test rules as they develop
There should be an obligatory code-of-conduct for all clubs/counties who wish to participate in gaelic games competitions to sign/accept. One of the points should be that there is one and only one appeals process, and that its findings are binding and final. Failure to accept the findings (i.e. taking a 'legal' route) would result in elimination from the competition in question.
I would hope that something to that effect would be written into the new rule book Billy. I was thinking exactly the same thing.
It should simply be - if you appeal you can only win by proving that the incident didn't happen - any appeal that loses leads to an automatic tripling of the ban and all costs are to be paid by the club/county making the appeal....
Any appeals on simple technicalities are ruled inadmissable and all clubs/counties sign up before the season starts or aren't allowed take part....
Quote from: Hardy on November 08, 2007, 09:55:47 AM
This rule was bound to be challenged sooner or later anyway - what's the "Irish version" of young Hassan bin Aouid who plays under-16 for the Shamrocks? And you can't say there's no Irish for that, but there is for Jack Black. That would be racist, wouldn't it?
You just have to find out what the name means in English, then get an Irish translation.
Quote from: Billys Boots on November 08, 2007, 10:23:15 AM
There should be an obligatory code-of-conduct for all clubs/counties who wish to participate in gaelic games competitions to sign/accept. One of the points should be that there is one and only one appeals process, and that its findings are binding and final. Failure to accept the findings (i.e. taking a 'legal' route) would result in elimination from the competition in question.
If you get off on a technicality, then why not go for it? You can't blame clubs/counties for taking advantage of the shit rulebook we have.
Hardy - the only problem with what you are saying is that I dare say on the team list provided to the referee the players name would have been as gaeilge so the ref should have used this version. The ref made an adminstrative error and the lawyers got the guy off. Happens in the judicial system all the time I hear.
The system is a joke - the GAA do so many good things and the system is letting them down and making them open to ridicule quite a lot.
QuoteYou can't blame clubs/counties for taking advantage of the shit rulebook we have.
I certainly do, if clubs/counties can't enter a competition in the spirit of fair-play then the sport is completely pointless. Form my point-of-view that is the stupidest comment I've seen here in a long time, and that's saying something.
To be honest the rulebook isn't that shit. Its just that people don't bother reading it.
People only read the rule book to look for loopholes.
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 08, 2007, 11:03:46 AM
People only read the rule book to look for loopholes.
AZ there just happen to be too many in it. Part 1 of the official guide especially requires a re-write. As far as not blaming clubs/counties, I dont think they can be blamed and the issue of fairness runs both ways. If the GAA cant comply with their own rules then they cant expect the clubs and counties to instead.
I agree with you David. See my original post on this thread. What I would say is that the reason why the rulebook needs such a revamp is twofold. 1. It is too unwieldy and ambiguous in places, or at least open to interpretation and 2. Because people don't play in the spirit of the game any more. I agree with Billy on this. Do the crime, do the time. Don't be doing the m'lud on it.
This was only verbal abuse (not acceptable but not the worst that could have happened) but say he broke a lads jaw with a box....he'd still have gotten off on the technicality....a joke!
Quote from: North Longford on November 08, 2007, 11:33:27 AM
This was only verbal abuse (not acceptable but not the worst that could have happened) but say he broke a lads jaw with a box....he'd still have gotten off on the technicality....a joke!
100% correct North Longford imagen how much of a joke the association would of looked that guy who broke the refs jaw and he gets on not being called his
made up Irish name