GPA issues members with a ballot for strike
Wednesday, 17 October 2007
The GPA today issued its members with a ballot for strike action due to the on-going failure of the Government and the GAA to implement sports grants for inter-county players. This significant action is being taken by the GPA following an extensive process of negotiation with our members. Four provincial meetings were held followed by a period of consultation where every county squad in Ireland was contacted to gauge the mood in regard to the grants issue and any potential protest.
The GPA executive has advised its members to vote in favour of the action which will consist of a removal of players from all inter-county competitions next season.
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Patience Wearing Thin
Monday, 24 September 2007
THERE is a famous quotation that states that the problem with gazing too frequently into the past is that we may turn around to find the future has run out on us.
In the GAA we tend to be obsessed with the past and unfortunately that obsession has pretty serious ramifications for players, particularly inter-county players. Certain changes do not happen quickly in our organisation particularly when it comes to players and it is only since the GPA was formed that the issue of our welfare been prioritised.
This, of course, is against the backdrop of massive infrastructural changes, massive new sponsorship deals, new advertising methods and increased television coverage. Everyone, even the politicians, are cashing in. However, the protracted campaign for the introduction of sports grants for inter-county players is a perfect example of how serious player issues can be dragged out indefinitely. With every passing year another generation of players move on while the demands on those at the coalface continue to change.
To put it simply, nothing really stays the same, except, of course, the status of the player. So, after five years campaigning for grants, we find ourselves in a position where the GAA have agreed that grants should be paid, the Government have agreed to give €5m to finance the grants but neither can agree a mechanism for making that money available to players.
In the meantime, another successful season for the GAA has closed, another batch of players have hung up their boots and the men who have been centre stage for the past four months will drift to the margins of Irish sport – where many are happy to keep them. I believe the time has come to cut to the chase. If neither party to this impasse over sports grants has any objection in principle to the scheme, then why have we an impasse? Why have we not received the grants? Are they really in favour of this scheme?
Well, I'm fed up and I know I'm not alone. At times I believe we are the laughing stock of the sporting world and no amount of back-slapping will change that perception. And maybe it's because Gaelic players do not look at the bigger picture often enough, consumed as we are with the grind and routine of life as an amateur player in a rapidly changing society. How many of you are out of pocket for bloody tickets after the season?
The grant scheme is the ideal opportunity for the GAA, the Government and the country as a whole to say to the inter-county playing body 'we respect you'.
Does anyone have any idea how much money is generated on the back of a big fixture at Croke Park or Semple Stadium? And how much money goes back to the Exchequer with all the attendant business taking place around big games? Don't let any petty critic mislead you here; this scheme will not cost this country a red cent. It is the principle that really matters – and if that's what really matters then we can only assume that it is the principle has something to do with the impasse. If that is the case, we have a serious problem.
Either way, the time has come to sort this problem out once and for all. Either we embrace the future or remain in the past.
DONAL ÓG CUSACK
Such utter tripe. Its about time a line was drawn in the sand.
If the players think they aren't getting well enough looked after, the simple solution is to walk away. No one is forcing them to join their county setup. I don't fully understand why we are having this impasse, the GAA have said they are in favour and the government have set aside the cash. How hard is it to sort out the "mechanism" to dole it out? What happens to players in the North? Will the southern government dole out money to northern players?
I don't trust the GPA and reading their website doesn't do much to set me at ease. When you read between the lines all they are after is money. I'll begrudge no county player the opportunity to make a few quid but the GPA really scare me. Where will their appetite for money end? I think they are after Pay for play! Once someone is a paid employee they are free to change employer. The GAA transfer market wouldn't be the imaginary thing we discuss here for time to time it would be a reality and the Dublin's of this world would be unstoppable!
Who pays the money for the grant?
Government or GAA?
Don't set a precedent.
It'd make you ill reading such self-serving twaddle. He clearly equates his own welfare with that of the association as a whole.
I'm in favour of some sort of scheme for remunerating players, but these self-serving fcuks really annoy me - any grant scheme set-up should only be on the conditition that the GPA disbands immediately, and grants can only be awarded to players who are not members of any players organisation (well US multinationals get away with no-union clauses, why can't the gaa?).
If the players strike - wouldnt other club players take up their mantle? Its a real kick in the teeth to club players on the fringe of the intercounty set up.
Yes they would. As others have said, if they're not happy about the way they're being treated, step aside, its easy if that was that was what it was all about.
Any players who strike should face a lifetime ban.
Can't agree skull.
Instead, the GAA from top to bottom should just ignore this strike. And just keep ignoring it. And then some more. It will eventually disappear.
Because when Gaelic Games continue to played as always, and supported as always, then maybe a few of the GPA might realise that the GAA isn't about them.
People don't go to watch the players, they go to watch their teams, because unlike in other sports, your team is a matter of birthright, not choice. It's a part of you. I don't go to every Down Championship match to witness individuals. If I wanted to do watch individuals, I'd go watch Kerry...and it's legendary just how few watch the continually best team in the country pre-September.
I have never heard a sympathetic word for the GPA's 'plight' from anyone who has not not played county football. Everyone else (and that's the vast majority) feels the same way - why should those pricks get paid for taking to excess something that was supposed to be fun.
Great discussion on Newstalk at the mo in regard to this.
IMO the general mood has turned against the GPA. They had momentum about 18 months ago. I think the GAA has played this very well, while showing a certain amount of interest without jumping into bed with them.
They are voting on potential strike action in the off season purely so that in the long winter months they can maintain their public profile and in the quiet times it gives the journalists something to fill pages.
I am totally against everything they stand for. Yes i feel that players should not be out of pocket and suprised if many are. Yes there has been occassions when certain things have not been handled correctly but IMO there is no need for this.
Strike if its voted for, and watch the general consensus of the GAA turn root and branch against everything the GPA stands for. IMO this is the beginning of the end and a last throw of the dice.
Is it also coincidental that this is now happening in a period of increased militantcy (sp) within unions generally ( aer lingus, postal workers, classroom assistants etc.)
I feel comrade Farrell et al are about to have their last stand, against an organisation that has 10's of thousands of volunteers to cover from children all the way up to the superstars of our game there can only be one winner !!
How many members have the GPA anyway? It's not as if their numbers will make much difference to the general mood among most GAA men.
Best thing ever happened, a golden opportunity to flush these guys out,call their bluff and put an end to this nonsense once and for all. Above all it is vital that the G.A.A. hierarchy to not get drawn into negotiations or hostile media interviews, just hold to the line that this has nothing to do with the G.A.A. and all questions should be put to the G.P.A. and those involved
Quote from: Pangurban on October 17, 2007, 08:26:40 PM
Best thing ever happened, a golden opportunity to flush these guys out,call their bluff and put an end to this nonsense once and for all. Above all it is vital that the G.A.A. hierarchy to not get drawn into negotiations or hostile media interviews, just hold to the line that this has nothing to do with the G.A.A. and all questions should be put to the G.P.A. and those involved
Thats exactly what they have done, and i think very well.
I agree totally, flush them out.
Pity it has come to this but I'd be happy enouigh to see inter county competition suspended for a season if counties can't field. Play club competitions on Sunday afternoons in June, July & August.
Bouncy Bouncy BouncyBouncy Bouncy BouncyBouncy Bouncy BouncyBouncy Bouncy BouncyBouncy Bouncy BouncyBouncy Bouncy Bouncy
Every post that Bensars writes looks the same to me!
Quote from: Puckoon on October 17, 2007, 05:12:26 PM
If the players strike - wouldnt other club players take up their mantle? Its a real kick in the teeth to club players on the fringe of the intercounty set up.
I don't know if thats a cert, no-one likes a scab, even if the GPA are in total meltdown.
Quote from: dublinfella on October 17, 2007, 10:04:30 PM
I don't know if thats a cert, no-one likes a scab, even if the GPA are in total meltdown.
If needs be, I still have my hurley :D
Why all the whinging about the GPA??
Is there whinging about the grants they offer to students who are in college?? Is that not a form of pay for play???
Is there whinging about sponsorships, holidays, etc given to them - effectively another form of pay for play...???
With regards to numbers according to Enda McNulty they have 1,856 members with a burgeoning associate scheme for club players...where is the praise for the GPA scholarship scheme, work on burnout, work on club fixtures crisis and their proposals, benevolent funds, charity work,
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We have had an Actuaries Report commissioned; the first independent scientific evaluation of the costs involved for inter-county players due to their substantial commitment to teams. Depending on the duration of service, anywhere from €100,000 to €150,000 was estimated as the cost of an average county career. We have had an Actuaries Report commissioned; the first independent scientific evaluation of the costs involved for inter-county players due to their substantial commitment to teams. Depending on the duration of service, anywhere from €100,000 to €150,000 was estimated as the cost of an average county career.
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The grants are on the basis of donation to every county player either hurling or football without recourse to ability or standards etc.......
Quote from: DoYerJob Linesman on October 17, 2007, 09:38:16 PM
Bouncy Bouncy BouncyBouncy Bouncy BouncyBouncy Bouncy BouncyBouncy Bouncy BouncyBouncy Bouncy BouncyBouncy Bouncy Bouncy
Every post that Bensars writes looks the same to me!
I am reminded of that eminent philosopher from Peckam - Del Boy "Lovely Jubblies" ;D ;D ;D
QuoteWhy all the whinging about the GPA??
No whinging DfS1 but most people can see the GPA for what it is. Far from being a representative body for players it is in effect a marketing body for a small elite group including the management. Unfortunately it has never been put under any form of media scrutiny particularly in relation to its finances and who is benefitting. The current strike threat represents an opportunity for the GAA to put an end to Dessie's clique once and for all. I would support a players representative body that is representative of all players and is loyal to the Association. Please don't make me laugh with your listing of GPA achievements - PR for the most part. Unfortunately many Dubs supporters out of blind loyalty to Dessie refuse to see the GPA for what it is - a selfish organisation that cares little for theoverall good of the GAA and what the GAA stands for throughout the country.
Tatler Jack
So how is it PR???? Did you not read the listing of all the players who get scholarships?? Did you read their proposals to solve the club v's county crisis?? Did you read all the agreements they have got with the GAA on treatment of players and squads??
The small elite you are talking about is every county player in both hurling and football ntowithstanging what county they are from....ie a Mayo hurler is treated like a Kilkenny hurler or a Kerry footballer or a Kilkenny footballer.....if you look at the people taking part you will find they are nearly all ex-players who won't benefit either....
How is it a selfish organisation???? As O'Cusack says a county player gets an option to but 2 tickets for the AIF but a central council delegate receives 14 tickets...Could you imagine any other organisation having a mileage allowance of 50c per mile?? (eg civil service rates go from 86.05 cents to 128.1 cents per mile)...
My views have nothing to do with being a Dublin supporter either...
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on October 17, 2007, 10:12:50 PM
Why all the whinging about the GPA??
Is there whinging about the grants they offer to students who are in college?? Is that not a form of pay for play???
Is there whinging about sponsorships, holidays, etc given to them - effectively another form of pay for play...???
With regards to numbers according to Enda McNulty they have 1,856 members with a burgeoning associate scheme for club players...where is the praise for the GPA scholarship scheme, work on burnout, work on club fixtures crisis and their proposals, benevolent funds, charity work,
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We have had an Actuaries Report commissioned; the first independent scientific evaluation of the costs involved for inter-county players due to their substantial commitment to teams. Depending on the duration of service, anywhere from €100,000 to €150,000 was estimated as the cost of an average county career. We have had an Actuaries Report commissioned; the first independent scientific evaluation of the costs involved for inter-county players due to their substantial commitment to teams. Depending on the duration of service, anywhere from €100,000 to €150,000 was estimated as the cost of an average county career.
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The grants are on the basis of donation to every county player either hurling or football without recourse to ability or standards etc.......
;D ;D ;D ;D
Firstly this is not a go at the players themselves.
1. depending on length of career. So a player playing inter county for3 years ( example only) will lose 100K euro while a player playing for 10 years will lose up to 150K euro?? Doesnt add up
2 If this was the case and based on the occupations and salaries of some county players, they would not be able to survive. Not many intercounty footballers are living in small houses with small mortgages in one of the most expensives economies in the world.
3. "Is there whinging about the grants they offer to students who are in college?? Is that not a form of pay for play???" question posed. Then you ask "where is the praise for the GPA scholarship scheme". Is this not a contradiction ??
4. "Is there whinging about sponsorships, holidays, etc given to them - effectively another form of pay for play...???" This is the crux of the point you are missing IMHO. These are perks that are afforded to the better players within the GAA ( namely intercounty ). I begrudge noone a holiday for training all year and putting the required time and dedication. These are tokens of graditute lavished on them rather than demands of recompence.
5. what your "independent scientific evaluation " fails to include in its analysis is the income that some players may recieve from work oppurtunities otherwise not afforded to them had they been an average club footballer/hurler over the course of the career and beyond. It also fails to mention the income generated by those in self employment because of their status within the GAA.
Once again this is not a go at the county players themselves, but rather the mechanism that i feel is using these amateur athletes to further their own gains. remember who started this organisation, a professional in the marketing arena, who saw a gap in the market to maximise marketing "potental" . What is the most marketable asset the GAA has, that they cannot negociate on themselves? ? The Players.
DfS1 you are very naive if you believe all the PR from the GPA. the GAA had started the process of scholarships some years before the GPA ever was founded - indeed I would have mixed views on them as not all players who received them developed into established county players. However that is largely irrelevant. As regards mileage I agree players should receive a realistic mileage in line with what a county can afford - the civil service rates are determined by another self serving elite i.e. themselves and are considerably more than the running costs of a car!!
As regards the GPA the facts are:
1 It was established by someone (Donal O'Neill) who was working for a sports marketing organisation and who saw an opportunity to market GAA players, attract sponsorship and get a bit of the action.
2 To give it more legitimacy a figurehead was need hence Dessie became Chief Executive - doubt he would have got the job for his management or inter personal skills
Since then they have cleverly purported to be representative of all players from Kerry footballers to Leitrim hurlers. They remind me of the IFA who used to claim they represented all farmers when in fact their policies were mainly designed to support large farmers. Small farmers and Leitrim hurlers are files in the "useful stooges" cabinets of these organisations.
When the GPA publishes accounts showing all sponsorship, how it is distributed and who benefits (including the self serving clique that run it) I will be prepared to revise my opinion of them. Until then I see them as an organisation that has little interest in the long term welfare of the GAA and indeed of most players. They are opportunistic and reactionary and luckily for them they have a largely unquestioning media to support them.
In the case of the current grants controversy they have created a problem and now want to blame the GAA. O'Donoghue made a fool of them (another example of a cute Kerryman being too clever for a Dub) by promising something that he knew it would be near impossible to deliver. Dessie sold it to his members and got brownie points but now the members want the lolly and Dessie has to blame somebody. Let's hope Nicky Brennan does not yield on this - the problem is between the GPA and the government and has nothing to do with the GAA.
I suggest DfS1 you should be a bit more cynical about all marketing organisations - including the GPA
PS As regards the Actuary report - I am sure there are thousands of people whio give of their free time to voluntary organisations who could get similar reports prepared that would show that their voluntary work has cost them hundreds of thousands over their lifetime. Just more spinning by the GPA.
I might, only might have a bit more time for the GPA if it weren't for that ***** Dessie Farrell. I cannot see past him and listen to the real arguments he tries to make - I just get all angry and end up roaring at the laptop
*Apologies for the harsh language, but only used to highlight the hatred
I
Quotemight, only might have a bit more time for the GPA if it weren't for that ***** Dessie Farrell
.
Hes only the monkey Stephenite - there are a couple of organ grinders that the monkey dances to ;)
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on October 17, 2007, 10:12:50 PM
Depending on the duration of service, anywhere from €100,000 to €150,000 was estimated as the cost of an average county career. We have had an Actuaries Report commissioned; the first independent scientific evaluation of the costs involved for inter-county players due to their substantial commitment to teams. Depending on the duration of service, anywhere from €100,000 to €150,000 was estimated as the cost of an average county career.
If people are so badly out of pocket from playing a sport, and don't feel it's worth it, they should give it up. Plenty of us fret over booking holidays for fear they might head off and miss something - a fella I used go to Waterford matches with when I lived in Dublin allowed his wife to convince him to take their holidays on the last weekend of June 2002. Some might view such concerns as the ruination of a summer. But it's the price we pay for something we love.
I sincerely hope that if this threat to turn down the invitation to represent their county is carried out bt existing players who are GPA members, that the GAA authorities at national, provincial and county board level will all stand firmly behind the ideals of the GAA. If I was invited to come in for training and turned it down, then someone else would be offered the chance. This should be no different. As has been said already, I and lots more will go to support my county whoever is on the panel, individual ego's mean nothing.
Quote from: fearglasmor on October 17, 2007, 11:48:29 PM
I sincerely hope that if this threat to turn down the invitation to represent their county is carried out bt existing players who are GPA members, that the GAA authorities at national, provincial and county board level will all stand firmly behind the ideals of the GAA. If I was invited to come in for training and turned it down, then someone else would be offered the chance. This should be no different. As has been said already, I and lots more will go to support my county whoever is on the panel, individual ego's mean nothing.
crossing a picket is never that simple.
Quote from: dublinfella on October 18, 2007, 12:04:57 AM
crossing a picket is never that simple.
I'd love to see them picket outside a match I was going to.
Quote from: dublinfella on October 18, 2007, 12:04:57 AM
Quote from: fearglasmor on October 17, 2007, 11:48:29 PM
I sincerely hope that if this threat to turn down the invitation to represent their county is carried out bt existing players who are GPA members, that the GAA authorities at national, provincial and county board level will all stand firmly behind the ideals of the GAA. If I was invited to come in for training and turned it down, then someone else would be offered the chance. This should be no different. As has been said already, I and lots more will go to support my county whoever is on the panel, individual ego's mean nothing.
crossing a picket is never that simple.
It would be a lot easier than refusing to play for your own county. Especially a strike that doesnt have the support of the rank and file grass roots. Its not like the miners strike whereby livlihoods depended on it !!
Quote from: dublinfella on October 18, 2007, 12:04:57 AM
Quote from: fearglasmor on October 17, 2007, 11:48:29 PM
I sincerely hope that if this threat to turn down the invitation to represent their county is carried out bt existing players who are GPA members, that the GAA authorities at national, provincial and county board level will all stand firmly behind the ideals of the GAA. If I was invited to come in for training and turned it down, then someone else would be offered the chance. This should be no different. As has been said already, I and lots more will go to support my county whoever is on the panel, individual ego's mean nothing.
crossing a picket is never that simple.
Do you mean to say that other players who aren't permitted to have access to the Union are going to allow the Union to stop them fulfilling the long held ambition and dream of wearing the county jersey. A baseball bat across the kness is what they'd get if one of them tried to stop me either playing for my county or going to support my county. Although the first option is not (nor ever was) very likely
With regards to the idea of going to see your county no matter who is playing does that apply to all league games, underage games etc????
With regards to the marketing aspect - that has been approved so there is no more to gain for a marketing man as this is alreafy there....
With regards to the holiday funds etc these primarily are for the All-Ireland finalists and not for every county....
So while people hate Dessie do they hate Enda McNulty, McGeeney etc, Carey..
Do people really care that little about the GAA that they will refuse to train or go to matches or assist in clubs if county players receive sports grants of around 1,000 Euro a year????
Will clubs refuse to allow their county players to play club football because of it??? Will the refuse to allow them to train the younger teams etc???
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on October 18, 2007, 12:49:04 AM
With regards to the idea of going to see your county no matter who is playing does that apply to all league games, underage games etc????
With regards to the marketing aspect - that has been approved so there is no more to gain for a marketing man as this is alreafy there....
With regards to the holiday funds etc these primarily are for the All-Ireland finalists and not for every county....
So while people hate Dessie do they hate Enda McNulty, McGeeney etc, Carey..
Do people really care that little about the GAA that they will refuse to train or go to matches or assist in clubs if county players receive sports grants of around 1,000 Euro a year????
Will clubs refuse to allow their county players to play club football because of it??? Will the refuse to allow them to train the younger teams etc???
Do they players really care so little about the game that has given them so much?
I don't have an issue with the grant scheme per se - I have a real issue with the GPA holding a gun to the head the GAA. The players are aware of the amateur status issue and how vital it is to the continued development of the associationas we know it.
The GPA lobbied the government for the funds and they got it - I just don't want the GAA to have in any part in paying of these funds. It creates a precedent, the GPA know this. If for example the government pull the funding in 2 years time - the GPA will then expect the association to make up the shortfall.
Let them strike, do not let the GAA dirty it's hands with this money. If the GPA and the government sort it out amongst themselves I won't be too bothered
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on October 18, 2007, 12:49:04 AM
Will clubs refuse to allow their county players to play club football because of it??? Will the refuse to allow them to train the younger teams etc???
Who mentioned this - the players are the ones on strike. They can still be selected for either club or county, it's up to them after that surely??? If they don't turn up I can guarantee that someone else will take their place
Ifther GPA represents the cream which has rose to the top, then in my opinion its time to scrape off this flotsam. The GAA is above and beyond all the wishes of its membership. I think its time the GAA ballotted the general membership on the GPA. Send a clear unambiguous message straight to the breakaway faction. The final stage is expulsion, believe me there is plenty, hundreds, thousands of volunteers to take their place. I would not support my beloved tyrone if the players were receiving financial remuneration of any type. I know of many like me, I think its time for the public vote alright. Any GPA man who strikes and holds the association to ransom should try their luck at the Aussie rules. I for one would never want to see them get the chance to lift a county jersey again. The very symbols of elitism that they are crying about could be removed ver quickly from their grip. They would have retired in 10 years anyway.
Within the GAA. loyalty should be club and county not the prospect of Donal og or enda mc's silver dollar. Anybody who thinks that this will not ultimately lead to professionalism needs their head examined.
With McGeeney being an avid supporter of the GPA it will be good to say what he thinks if the proposed strike goes ahead. It'll be some craic when you goes to take Kildare in his first game and no one shows up!! :o :o
From this mornings Irish News:
ONE of the founder members of the Gaelic Players Association has accused its leaders of losing touch with the issues which led to its formation in 1999.
Fergal McCusker, an All-Ireland medallist with Derry in 1993, is credited in Dessie Farrell's autobiography as the person who came up with the name for the players' body.
However, McCusker now insists that the union he helped to establish bears little resemblance to the organisation that exists today.
The GPA yesterday decided to ballot its members on whether to strike over a dispute relating to a E5m grants scheme. While the Irish Government has agreed to release the funds, it has failed to devise an agreeable method of distributing the grants to the players. All inter-county footballers and hurlers would receive approximately E2,000 if the scheme gets under way.
McCusker believes that by adopting such an ardent position, and by threatening to strike over this issue, the GPA has alienated itself from the rank and file members of the Association.
"They paint a picture of the GAA player as someone working down a salt mine in Siberia,'' he said.
"It's not like that. The role of a GAA player is enjoyable. Yes, you do have to make all sorts of sacrifices, but there are loads of benefits.
"There is no doubt that playing for the county helped me get my first job. The rewards far outweigh the drawbacks,'' said the 37-year-old bank official.
And the former Derry footballer was particularly keen to point out that the welfare of players has improved dramatically since the GPA was formed.
"As a founder member of the GPA, we were reacting to the conditions which existed back then.
"Nowadays free boots, free training gear, and meals after training are taken as given. None of that really existed when the GPA started.
"Expenses were the main complaint. Players got 12p a mile, if they were lucky. Some players didn't get paid at all.
"The mantra at that time was that players shouldn't be out of pocket for playing for their county.''
To illustrate the plight of the inter-county players in the 90s, McCusker pointed to some of his own experiences with Derry.
"When we reached the All-Ireland final, we asked the county board to buy us boots. They refused.''
On another occasion, when the team reached a National League final, the players were given one complimentary ticket each "in some of the worst seats in Croke Park''.
McCusker added: "That was the time Joe Brolly said to the county chairman: 'Who told you we were all from one-parent families?'''
The former GPA member also claimed that Association spokesmen are continually painting a picture that doesn't reflect reality.
McCusker referred to a recent statement from Enda McNulty in which the Armagh player claimed the grant "would barely cover the purchase of the sufficient hydration necessary for an athlete on a yearly basis''.
McCusker said: "Kieran McGeeney got an allowance from the Armagh County Board for every player to pay for their fruit and water. For Enda McNulty to insinuate that he was out of pocket in one of the most professional set-ups ever known to Gaelic football is a bit disingenuous."
While McCusker was scathing of the direction the GPA has taken in recent years, he stressed that he could understand why young players would be eager to gain access to the grant money.
"When I was in my early twenties, if someone offered me E2,000 to play football, I would have taken it.''
But McCusker said that since retiring from inter-county action and returning to his club, he now realises why it's so important for the GAA to maintain its volunteer ethos.
"It's only when you go back to your club that you appreciate that the Association has become a success because of its amateur status.
"There should be some things in life that can't be bought and aren't for sale."
Quote from: stephenite on October 18, 2007, 12:29:38 AM
Quote from: dublinfella on October 18, 2007, 12:04:57 AM
Quote from: fearglasmor on October 17, 2007, 11:48:29 PM
I sincerely hope that if this threat to turn down the invitation to represent their county is carried out bt existing players who are GPA members, that the GAA authorities at national, provincial and county board level will all stand firmly behind the ideals of the GAA. If I was invited to come in for training and turned it down, then someone else would be offered the chance. This should be no different. As has been said already, I and lots more will go to support my county whoever is on the panel, individual ego's mean nothing.
crossing a picket is never that simple.
Do you mean to say that other players who aren't permitted to have access to the Union are going to allow the Union to stop them fulfilling the long held ambition and dream of wearing the county jersey. A baseball bat across the kness is what they'd get if one of them tried to stop me either playing for my county or going to support my county. Although the first option is not (nor ever was) very likely
Save the internet hardman routine for people who care.
All im saying is that fringe players may be reluctant to step in, a lot of these guys play club ball together and are friends etc. I would never cross any picket to 'scab' (not 100% accurate here, but its the best word) out of principal and Im most certaintly not alone.
fair play fergal mccusker, most sensible piece i have seen written in a while regarding the whole issue. i think what he says makes dessie, donal og. mcgeeney etc look like serious merceneries!!!
AND SOCCERFELLA, COULD YOU NOT LEAVE US ALONE WITH YOUR ANTI GAA TRIPE. GO AWAY AND SEE IF YOU CAN GET THAT STADIUM BUILT IN TALLAGHT. IF YOU START NOW WITH YOUR PICK AND SHOVEL YOU'LL HAVE IT FINISHED BY THE TIME IRELAND QUALIFY FOR ANOTHER MAJOR TOURNAMENT.
Quote from: dublinfella on October 18, 2007, 10:05:36 AM
All im saying is that fringe players may be reluctant to step in, a lot of these guys play club ball together and are friends etc. I would never cross any picket to 'scab' (not 100% accurate here, but its the best word) out of principal and Im most certaintly not alone.
The evidence of the posters on here is that the GPA strike does not enjoy the support or even the tacit sympathy of the fringe of the association ('fringe' in the case being 'the vast majority'). It will not be difficult to get teams together, and when that happens the strike is broken
Quote from: dublinfella on October 18, 2007, 10:05:36 AM
Save the internet hardman routine for people who care.
All im saying is that fringe players may be reluctant to step in, a lot of these guys play club ball together and are friends etc. I would never cross any picket to 'scab' (not 100% accurate here, but its the best word) out of principal and Im most certaintly not alone.
Internet Hardman routine ;D
Everyone can accept that it's not like the present day players are slaves to the modern GAA, they can walk away at any time. You're picket analogy is incorrect also - do you seriously think any well known senior Inter county player is going to stand outside the county ground holding a f**king placard? Get real and stop making up ridiculous arguments, there won't be a 'picket'
Scabs indeed ::)
you looking back on past experiences there drici? ;D
The Derry team went on strike (probably justifiably) back in '95, they ended up winning the league!!
Im actually a GPA supporter but I dont approve or trust their anti pay for play stance, as I believe that there is an agenda there for that. Does anyone know of any GPA personnell who got paid to play their club football in Dublin? Where these just rumours not based on fact?
Quote from: phpearse on October 18, 2007, 09:57:09 AM
From this mornings Irish News:
However, McCusker now insists that the union he helped to establish bears little resemblance to the organisation that exists today.
The GPA yesterday decided to ballot its members on whether to strike over a dispute relating to a E5m grants scheme. While the Irish Government has agreed to release the funds, it has failed to devise an agreeable method of distributing the grants to the players. All inter-county footballers and hurlers would receive approximately E2,000 if the scheme gets under way.
McCusker believes that by adopting such an ardent position, and by threatening to strike over this issue, the GPA has alienated itself from the rank and file members of the Association.
"They paint a picture of the GAA player as someone working down a salt mine in Siberia,'' he said.
"It's not like that. The role of a GAA player is enjoyable. Yes, you do have to make all sorts of sacrifices, but there are loads of benefits.
"There is no doubt that playing for the county helped me get my first job. The rewards far outweigh the drawbacks,'' said the 37-year-old bank official.
And the former Derry footballer was particularly keen to point out that the welfare of players has improved dramatically since the GPA was formed.
"As a founder member of the GPA, we were reacting to the conditions which existed back then.
"Nowadays free boots, free training gear, and meals after training are taken as given. None of that really existed when the GPA started.
"Expenses were the main complaint. Players got 12p a mile, if they were lucky. Some players didn't get paid at all.
"The mantra at that time was that players shouldn't be out of pocket for playing for their county.''
To illustrate the plight of the inter-county players in the 90s, McCusker pointed to some of his own experiences with Derry.
"When we reached the All-Ireland final, we asked the county board to buy us boots. They refused.''
On another occasion, when the team reached a National League final, the players were given one complimentary ticket each "in some of the worst seats in Croke Park''.
McCusker added: "That was the time Joe Brolly said to the county chairman: 'Who told you we were all from one-parent families?'''
The former GPA member also claimed that Association spokesmen are continually painting a picture that doesn't reflect reality.
McCusker referred to a recent statement from Enda McNulty in which the Armagh player claimed the grant "would barely cover the purchase of the sufficient hydration necessary for an athlete on a yearly basis''.
McCusker said: "Kieran McGeeney got an allowance from the Armagh County Board for every player to pay for their fruit and water. For Enda McNulty to insinuate that he was out of pocket in one of the most professional set-ups ever known to Gaelic football is a bit disingenuous."
While McCusker was scathing of the direction the GPA has taken in recent years, he stressed that he could understand why young players would be eager to gain access to the grant money.
"When I was in my early twenties, if someone offered me E2,000 to play football, I would have taken it.''
But McCusker said that since retiring from inter-county action and returning to his club, he now realises why it's so important for the GAA to maintain its volunteer ethos.
"It's only when you go back to your club that you appreciate that the Association has become a success because of its amateur status.
"There should be some things in life that can't be bought and aren't for sale."
Excellent article and Mc Cusker articulates the feelings of most on this board.
Note the advantages and job oppurtunities.
Let them strike. Interesting to see how many actually have the gaul to do it !!
Lads was just thinking the same with kildare and mcgeeney. some craic if the boys refused to take part in training for a few months and got hammered by wicklow in the leinster!! ;)
i've no problem with the grants as long as its a government initiative, the economy gains millions from the GAA every year with matches. an AI final brings something like 20m to dublin over the weekend.
the gpa want money but will they give grants to local clubhouses on spend thousands on coaching seminars which cost €15k a pop. NO WAY!
they have been on the go years and are still as vague as ever.
No Dublinfella I would have GPA tendencies and I wouldnt see it as that, by the very nature a strike is about employment. GAA players arent employed contracted and are free to do as they please, walk away and play Irish league infornt of 150 townies if ya want paid. Thats your own loss. The pleyers union represents a band of opinion if they withdraw their services who the hell is going to brush the dressing room floors or cut the pitches? All they will be doing is prematurely ending their own intercounty careers. I hope it dosent come to pass. Im sure the clubs will allow them back regardless but I know county boards will not no matter what their profile was. There are 2.5 million star in the GAA in Ireland not 2,500.
He doesnt play or watch football, he is a soccer fan.
He joined here to argue Shamrock Rovers case against the GAA.
Quote from: stephenite on October 18, 2007, 12:29:38 AM
Do you mean to say that other players who aren't permitted to have access to the Union are going to allow the Union to stop them fulfilling the long held ambition and dream of wearing the county jersey. A baseball bat across the kness is what they'd get if one of them tried to stop me either playing for my county or going to support my county. Although the first option is not (nor ever was) very likely
this made me laugh stephenite -
you've spent way too long arguing against the IRA etc and have turned into an RSF style vigilante ;) :D
I say let them "strike", if anything it will bring in the guys who play for pride in their jersey and parish or county, thats what makes the GAA the greatest sport in Ireland.
Maybe these players need reminding of that.
Quote from: his holiness nb on October 18, 2007, 11:32:14 AM
He doesnt play or watch football, he is a soccer fan.
He joined here to argue Shamrock Rovers case against the GAA.
its easy to see that cause i would jump at the chance if Peter McDonnell came to me tomorrow and asked me to step in for Paul Hearty or Ciaran McKinney!! and i am sure it would be the same for many other GAA men around the country!!!
if there was a 'strike' (how this could be so without being an actual union, and without it being a 'paid profession' is beyond me ! ! !)
Counties only need 20- 25 players to field teams and carry on with fixtures as normal, and you will find players would bo only too delighted to get the chance, hope to impress and remain in the county squad when the rest return - like some of the american footballer replacements did when the teams went on strike in 1987.
I wouldnt be worried at all that teams wont be fielded. thats what the general public will want, as these county teams are OUR teams and it is a priv for lads to be selected to play for them, not the other way around.
The GPA have hit upon some good points though.
Player welfare, disability payments etc - maybe even a GAA credit union for players needing loans etc
These things should be what the GAA addesses rather then wasting money paying players (not talking about expenses here).
as someone who's brother has played for the county i can say that he would never want any payment for playing Gaelic football as others have said earlier it's his choice to play nobody is forcing him. The reason he plays is because of his love of the game, the chance to play in front of a packed Hill 16 with the Dubs hurling abuse at ya ;) the chance to bring the SAM maguire home to your county the chance of winning a connaught title these are the stuff of boyhood dreams. Of course you don't want the players to be out of pocket they are entitled to milage even though if sean Feeney had his way he would have you cycle to training and give you a ham sandwich afterwards to keep the expenses down >:( so they shouldn't be loosing money playing for they county and any player that gets injured on the playing field should be suitable reimbursed as quickly as possible.However what makes the GAA special is that these lads don't get paid, on sunday your playing in front of 84000 people and come Monday your back to work .Sure there are some negatives people think its their right to hurl abuse at you or when you go for a pint there is allways some high stool footballer who reminds you off the missed tackle or the missed free but overall my brother wouldn't change it for anything and as a family member nothing gives you more pride or makes the hair stand on the back of your neck than to see them there on AI final day walking behind the Artane Boys Band .I don't think the magority of footballers would go on strike there seems to be a few lads at the top table who seem to be making a lot of noise.
I was so pissed off last night when I read the gpa's site (www.gaelicplayers.com) that I went and bought the domain www.gaelicsupporters.com with the intent of starting some anti GPA campaign. Today I'm not too sure what to do with it, all the great ideas I had last night seem like they'd be pretty much a waste of time. It seems from reading this board that there is little support for the GPA's actions. Anyone any ideas of what could be done? I'm still waiting on the registration of the site to complete.
Quote from: his holiness nb on October 18, 2007, 11:32:14 AM
He doesnt play or watch football, he is a soccer fan.
He joined here to argue Shamrock Rovers case against the GAA.
are you still following me around? are you ignoring the ticking you got from the mod for bullying tactics?
Quote from: dublinfella on October 18, 2007, 11:45:09 AM
Quote from: his holiness nb on October 18, 2007, 11:32:14 AM
He doesnt play or watch football, he is a soccer fan.
He joined here to argue Shamrock Rovers case against the GAA.
are you still following me around? are you ignoring the ticking you got from the mod for bullying tactics?
I didnt get a ticking off from the mods for bullying tactics :o
Strange thing to say.
pm me if you want to carry this on, Stpauls asked a question, I answered it.
I'm not getting dragged into another feud.
I wholeheartedly agree with the wobbler and I would like to hear the questions that Lone Shark posed on another thread answered by a GPA rep:
Quote(1) What assurances can you give that should the government pull the funding, or refuse to increase it in line with inflation, you will not ask the GAA to make up the shortfall?
(2) The expenses are recompense for your members claiming that they are out of pocket. How do you propose that players substantiate this? Or do you consider it fair that a teacher, who is not out of pocket at all, be given the same compensation as a tradesman who could potentially earn thousands in the time he spends training?
(3) What do you propose to do with the inevitable follow on claims from ladies footballers and camogie players? Do you think they should receive the same, or will you stand up and claim that ye train way harder than they do and that they should get nothing?
(4) The government will set a limit per panel - what is the GPA's line on who these recipients should be? Who gets the grant - they guy who joins the panel in December but is cut in April, or the guy who was in Australia for the year but came back in late march?
(5) If ye go on strike, what will be your view towards club players who choose to take their chance to play for the county in ye're stead? Ye can hardly complain that these "pass the picket" as it were, since ye don't even allow these guys full membership of the union in the first place....
(6) Will your strike include all GAA games, or will players merely pick and choose the elements that suit them? Will Ben O'Connor's strike include Newtownshandrum's likely Munster and All Ireland campaign, or will it just be the Cork games in the winter that have no medals on offer? Ditto Aaron Kernan for Crossmaglen, or Cha Fitz for Ballyhale? (Not meant as a slight on any of these players, merely the obvious examples)
Quote from: lynchbhoy on October 18, 2007, 11:40:22 AM
if there was a 'strike' (how this could be so without being an actual union, and without it being a 'paid profession' is beyond me ! ! !)
Counties only need 20- 25 players to field teams and carry on with fixtures as normal, and you will find players would bo only too delighted to get the chance, hope to impress and remain in the county squad when the rest return - like some of the american footballer replacements did when the teams went on strike in 1987.
I wouldnt be worried at all that teams wont be fielded. thats what the general public will want, as these county teams are OUR teams and it is a priv for lads to be selected to play for them, not the other way around.
The GPA have hit upon some good points though.
Player welfare, disability payments etc - maybe even a GAA credit union for players needing loans etc
These things should be what the GAA addesses rather then wasting money paying players (not talking about expenses here).
agree with lynchbhoy's views here, i would certainly not disagree with players being re-embursed for their travel expenses, missed wages due to injury or anything that they may be out of pocket due to training/playing for the county, but most of these boys already get this from their CBs, free gear, holidays, meals etc. but for the GPA to demand that their members go on strike for the sake of
more money, its a bit hard to swallow!! let them go on strike, see how long it lasts when they realise that the GAA world doesn't revolve around them!!!
Quote from: amallon on October 18, 2007, 11:44:08 AM
I was so pissed off last night when I read the gpa's site (www.gaelicplayers.com) that I went and bought the domain www.gaelicsupporters.com with the intent of starting some anti GPA campaign. Today I'm not too sure what to do with it,
The GPA have good ideas so I don't want to slag them off. The Grant situation needs to be clarified by the Government. They suggested it??
By all means reimburse them for all expenses, I'd never want to see a player out of pocket for playing for his county.
But would I be right in saying that most players expenses would already be covered?
Well i know of one county player in derry who is self employed, if he has to take a day off work because of a dead leg or bruised ribs....does he get reimburshed...of course not...these are the real issues that need to be addressed
yeah - thats the last bit I meant to write about - the Gov grants
thats nothing to do with the GAA and we should not be dragged into this.
the GPA are trying to get 'grants' for players under the auspices of 'athletes' - which they are.
they have not had any success and are trying to get the GAA involved to kick start the Gov in doing this.
Though to be honest, its prob a nudge and a wink scenario between the GAA and Gov to not allow this happen...
I could be wrong
but to get this going, the GPA should be investing time and money in setting up a Gov approved board that can administer the grants rather then want the GAA to come in as middleman.
The gov should be asked what kind of official office setup is required and then the GPA must set it up.
However after all that cash on an office, systems and full time employees etc - how much will they take as a cut from the players...would it be worth it ?
Apart from the full time paid GPA employees ?
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on October 18, 2007, 12:01:44 PM
Well i know of one county player in derry who is self employed, if he has to take a day off work because of a dead leg or bruised ribs....does he get reimburshed...of course not...these are the real issues that need to be addressed
does any club player the same.
Family member was out of work and pocket for 6 weeks when he broke his hand playing midfield for the club.
If he got anything it was equiv to a days wages. Not all his medical exp were covered either.
did he huff ?
No - he was back playing after two months...
Quote from: dublinfella on October 18, 2007, 11:43:17 AM
yes, retired to junior at this stage though. there are a couple of county players at our club and im not sure that the lads in line for a call up would symbolically cross the line.
Taking this at face value, your club seems to be the only one where the non-GPA players are suffering such angst.
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on October 18, 2007, 12:01:44 PM
Well i know of one county player in derry who is self employed, if he has to take a day off work because of a dead leg or bruised ribs....does he get reimburshed...of course not...these are the real issues that need to be addressed
If he got injured playing squash, who would he turn to to get reimbursed?
Quote from: deiseach on October 18, 2007, 12:07:33 PM
Quote from: dublinfella on October 18, 2007, 11:43:17 AM
yes, retired to junior at this stage though. there are a couple of county players at our club and im not sure that the lads in line for a call up would symbolically cross the line.
Taking this at face value, your club seems to be the only one where the non-GPA players are suffering such angst.
its possible to not support the GPA but have reservations about playing in their place.
Quote from: deiseach on October 18, 2007, 12:08:32 PM
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on October 18, 2007, 12:01:44 PM
Well i know of one county player in derry who is self employed, if he has to take a day off work because of a dead leg or bruised ribs....does he get reimburshed...of course not...these are the real issues that need to be addressed
If he got injured playing squash, who would he turn to to get reimbursed?
exactly right deiseach.
playing most sports involves some risk of injury, this is taken as granted by anyone who steps onto the football/hurling/rugby/hockey pitch. injuries happen, end of. the bottom line is that as gaa members we are the best looked after amateur sports people in the country as far as treatment after injury is concerned. i know that where i come from soccer and rugby players and officials speak with envy when they hear of the treatment we get when we break a leg or tear a cruciate compared to what they receive themselves.
in my opinion the gaa is leaps and bounds ahead of other sports in this field and for some to citicise it just shows that some people will never be happy no matter how much the gaa does.
i know everyone is entitled to their opinion but could we please not indulge soccerfella in his quest to create controversy on this board every time a bone of contention arises regarding a GAA matter. he is only here to create a bit of a dust up and then run away back to the rovers.
Where would the strike leave county players who are due to play in the provincial club championships over the next few weeks? I can't see to many taking much notice being taken of the strike when a provincial championship is at stake.
Quote from: behind the wire on October 18, 2007, 12:21:01 PM
i know everyone is entitled to their opinion but could we please not indulge soccerfella in his quest to create controversy on this board every time a bone of contention arises regarding a GAA matter. he is only here to create a bit of a dust up and then run away back to the rovers.
Sorry behind the wire, I fall for it every time :-[ :-[
For an indication as to whether he is really a GAA player I'd suggest people read through his previous posts before making your mind up.
Quote from: his holiness nb on October 18, 2007, 12:33:15 PM
Sorry behind the wire, I fall for it every time :-[ :-[
You (and I) need to acquire some of the Zen that oozes out of every pore of yer man in your avatar ;)
Quote from: deiseach on October 18, 2007, 12:38:21 PM
Quote from: his holiness nb on October 18, 2007, 12:33:15 PM
Sorry behind the wire, I fall for it every time :-[ :-[
You (and I) need to acquire some of the Zen that oozes out of every pore of yer man in your avatar ;)
Repeat after me "gooooooooskaaaaabaaa" ;D
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on October 18, 2007, 12:01:44 PM
Well i know of one county player in derry who is self employed, if he has to take a day off work because of a dead leg or bruised ribs....does he get reimburshed...of course not...these are the real issues that need to be addressed
I understand your point max, however has this person ever gained work as a result of being a county player?
I know myself and a hell of a lot of others around the country would give the job to a GAA man ( especially an intercounty player) over another.
I find it incredible that virtually all of the posters here are ignoring the fact that this is but one further step in the inexorable move to a form of professionalism at the top end of the GAA. I see nothing wrong with this - if we want to see the level of fitness and professionalism that has been exhibited by the counties over the past ten years or so. I see no reason why we don't go the way that the AFL has gone in Australia. Sport in general and the GAA in particular has adopted effective marketing strategies in recent years. Why should the players not benefit from it? Rugby has gone the same way. Let's get real here. The demands put forward by Dessie Farrell and his organisation are so mild that they barely scratch the surface. I would prefer to witness high quality professional GAA over the summer months rathetr than going back to the days when players were not properly fit.
Quote from: DandyMan on October 18, 2007, 01:42:00 PM
I find it incredible that virtually all of the posters here are ignoring the fact that this is but one further step in the inexorable move to a form of professionalism at the top end of the GAA. I see nothing wrong with this - if we want to see the level of fitness and professionalism that has been exhibited by the counties over the past ten years or so. I see no reason why we don't go the way that the AFL has gone in Australia. Sport in general and the GAA in particular has adopted effective marketing strategies in recent years. Why should the players not benefit from it? Rugby has gone the same way. Let's get real here. The demands put forward by Dessie Farrell and his organisation are so mild that they barely scratch the surface. I would prefer to witness high quality professional GAA over the summer months rathetr than going back to the days when players were not properly fit.
not properly fit ?
thats was 15 years ago or more.
Our players (and indeed most club players) have been shown to be as fit as the Aussies - its just they werent tough or big enough (not to mention smart).
The other problem from this is money. The association cannot sustain pro players.
Look at welsh and connacht rugby and their financial collapses.
The grass roots of the asociation dont want this to happen, and it wont - as long as this is the way.
The membership would rather pump money into development of kids , esp in disadvantaged areas - rather than pay player who will play anyhow - and we all want players to be well looked after, and in most places they are.
Its just that professionalism is a step too far.
Its been long discussed and debated on here.
When inter county players retire , they will see the bigger picture - as Fergal McCusker - the once pro GPA player has demonstrated.
If players cannot continue to play as it affects their work - then they , like countless men and generations before them, will have to make the choice (or the county board get them a new job like so many get).
Quote from: DandyMan on October 18, 2007, 01:42:00 PM
I see no reason why we don't go the way that the AFL has gone in Australia. Sport in general and the GAA in particular has adopted effective marketing strategies in recent years. Why should the players not benefit from it? Rugby has gone the same way. Let's get real here.
Let's get real indeed:
1. Australia has several times the population of Ireland
2. Rugby in Connacht is on it's knees, and has been since the introduction of professionalism
3. And professionalism has really helped the national rugby team, hasn't it? Witness the World Cup debacle.
4. Why does the only benefit for players have to be financial? (At least do yourself the favour of reading Fergal Mc Cusker's piece)
5. Professionalism would kill the GAA, period.
Quote from: DandyMan on October 18, 2007, 01:42:00 PM
Rugby has gone the same way.
Indeed. And the World Cup has shown that that's not a road the GAA want to go down
QuoteI find it incredible that virtually all of the posters here are ignoring the fact that this is but one further step in the inexorable move to a form of professionalism at the top end of the GAA. I see nothing wrong with this - if we want to see the level of fitness and professionalism that has been exhibited by the counties over the past ten years or so. I see no reason why we don't go the way that the AFL has gone in Australia. Sport in general and the GAA in particular has adopted effective marketing strategies in recent years. Why should the players not benefit from it? Rugby has gone the same way. Let's get real here. The demands put forward by Dessie Farrell and his organisation are so mild that they barely scratch the surface. I would prefer to witness high quality professional GAA over the summer months rathetr than going back to the days when players were not properly fit.
Good first post Dessie - did Donal or Geezer help you :o
Your right - the Kerry and Dublin teams of the 70's and 80's were out of breath after 10 mins. As for the Galway 3 in a row team of the 60's sure they could not run to save their lives. I am looking forward myself to this professional era where we can rightfully compete with the League of Ireland..can't wait for it ;)
Quote from: Tatler Jack on October 18, 2007, 01:51:14 PM
Good first post Dessie - did Donal or Geezer help you :o
:D
QuoteGood first post Dessie - did Donal or Geezer help you
Where's King Dub?
Quote from: amallon on October 18, 2007, 11:44:08 AM
I was so pissed off last night when I read the gpa's site (www.gaelicplayers.com) that I went and bought the domain www.gaelicsupporters.com with the intent of starting some anti GPA campaign. Today I'm not too sure what to do with it, all the great ideas I had last night seem like they'd be pretty much a waste of time. It seems from reading this board that there is little support for the GPA's actions. Anyone any ideas of what could be done? I'm still waiting on the registration of the site to complete.
Lol good idea AMallon.
Just looked at the new GPA site. Its almost embarrasing.
Let them make all the noise they want. they clearly have no support at any level, other than their own top table.
I see the Roscommon players will support a GPA strike if asked, i thought they had been on strike for the last 15 years.....Boom boom
I'm still waiting to hear from one player who can categorically state that he's out of pocket playing for his county. AFAIK in most counties all expenses are seen to, new gear is handed out as well as spending money on trips abroad for some. I know some counties are wealthier than others in GAA terms but I'd love to hear from some who feel they need the extra dosh.
Maybe if we were all county players and had been whipped into an hypnotic frenzy by Farrell and his crew we'd feel different.
Quote from: ONeill on October 18, 2007, 10:35:57 PM
I'm still waiting to hear from one player who can categorically state that he's out of pocket playing for his county. AFAIK in most counties all expenses are seen to, new gear is handed out as well as spending money on trips abroad for some. I know some counties are wealthier than others in GAA terms but I'd love to hear from some who feel they need the extra dosh.
Maybe if we were all county players and had been whipped into an hypnotic frenzy by Farrell and his crew we'd feel different.
Then theres the revenue to be made after your playing career ends - Brolly, O'Rourke, Tohill, Burns - all making plenty of money in broadcasting. Theres the writing of newspaper columns, the public speaking circuit - the generation of jobs just to keep players happy. Id be surprised if PTG leaves the house for an official public speaking engagement for under a grand - and thats all fair game!
Talk of strike is just going too far. Let them go. Theres many champing at the bit to be in their shoes.
Hungry huers, let them strike, let them p!ss all over what their fathers and we hold dear and ultimately let them be ejectected from their positions of assumed authority that we the giving for nought,paying for every thing shite hawks should at last bring some balance to this totally untenable situation of the GPA. The G.A.A. is part of us all and none of us deserve more than th next man and who is anyone to put a price upon what any man delivers to this glorious and unique assocciation, Shame on those who seek to to submerge it it in the mediocre emulsion of professional sport. Their betrayal should never be forgotten!!
Quote from: Puckoon on October 18, 2007, 10:51:36 PM
Quote from: ONeill on October 18, 2007, 10:35:57 PM
I'm still waiting to hear from one player who can categorically state that he's out of pocket playing for his county. AFAIK in most counties all expenses are seen to, new gear is handed out as well as spending money on trips abroad for some. I know some counties are wealthier than others in GAA terms but I'd love to hear from some who feel they need the extra dosh.
Maybe if we were all county players and had been whipped into an hypnotic frenzy by Farrell and his crew we'd feel different.
Then theres the revenue to be made after your playing career ends - Brolly, O'Rourke, Tohill, Burns - all making plenty of money in broadcasting. Theres the writing of newspaper columns, the public speaking circuit - the generation of jobs just to keep players happy. Id be surprised if PTG leaves the house for an official public speaking engagement for under a grand - and thats all fair game!
Talk of strike is just going too far. Let them go. Theres many champing at the bit to be in their shoes.
Puckoon - with regards to revenue after your playing career ends that is just for the elite few.....do you see any Mayo hurlers or Kilkenny footballers etc getting the same benefits????
bottom line is that the GPA want pay for play, in other words professionalism. but anyone with any sense will know that a country with only 5m people cannot support professional sport. there are 5m people in north london alone - just a comparison.
without a purely amateur ethos the gaa is dead.
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on October 19, 2007, 08:55:48 AMPuckoon - with regards to revenue after your playing career ends that is just for the elite few.....do you see any Mayo hurlers or Kilkenny footballers etc getting the same benefits????
No, but in fairness do they put in the work during their careers that the likes of Brolly, Tohill et al do? Or are they perhaps county footballers/hurlers solely by accident of birth?
let them strike
let the county boards bring in the u21 teams or next best players in the county.
The novelty alone would delight players and supporters.
Let these gpa twits see that they are not going to hold the association to ransom.
If money is what they want, then just give up football to concentrate on work.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on October 19, 2007, 10:34:19 AM
let them strike
let the county boards bring in the u21 teams or next best players in the county.
The novelty alone would delight players and supporters.
Let these gpa twits see that they are not going to hold the association to ransom.
If money is what they want, then just give up football to concentrate on work.
well said. these greedy gits cant hold our association to ransom.
dont they realise that if they strike the public will turn against them big time?
Quote from: lynchbhoy on October 19, 2007, 10:34:19 AMIf money is what they want, then just give up football to concentrate on work.
Exactly, sure don't most of us give up work to concentrate on the board!!
Well wouldn't it be a nice kick in the hole for all the sods who support Club Tyrone too!
that would be great to see them strike and the people pull out of the scheme, then we'd see the GPA stung
Quote from: lynchbhoy on October 19, 2007, 10:34:19 AM
let them strike
let the county boards bring in the u21 teams or next best players in the county.
The novelty alone would delight players and supporters.
Let these gpa twits see that they are not going to hold the association to ransom.
If money is what they want, then just give up football to concentrate on work.
Agree 100% with you,there may have been a time in the past when County players weren't looked after the way they should have been but not any more.In a similar vein the benefits that many County Players enjoy are plain to be seen in areas such as employment , how many of us do not know a County player who has gained a job that he would struggle to get if he were not a County man ;Bank officials, Sales Reps, Guards,Publicans ,Sports Coaches and Quantity Surveyors come Teachers(See Paddy Bradley)
.
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on October 19, 2007, 11:41:33 AM
Well wouldn't it be a nice kick in the hole for all the sods who support Club Tyrone too!
that would be great to see them strike and the people pull out of the scheme, then we'd see the GPA stung
What's your problem with Club Tyrone?
Think you picked me up wrong!
I think Club Tyrone is a brilliant initiative which gives players superb treatment.
I'm just saying that the people who support them will get a kick in the arse if the men they supported out of their own pockets decide to go on strike.
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on October 19, 2007, 02:31:48 PM
Think you picked me up wrong!
I think I did too :)
Without the likes of these operations the players wouldn't have received the benefits they do - the county boards just wouldn't have the money.
I think the players are supportive of Club Tyrone/Down/Derry/Louth etc and would think twice about "biting the hand that feeds them".
Quote from: ONeill on October 18, 2007, 10:35:57 PM
I'm still waiting to hear from one player who can categorically state that he's out of pocket playing for his county. AFAIK in most counties all expenses are seen to, new gear is handed out as well as spending money on trips abroad for some. I know some counties are wealthier than others in GAA terms but I'd love to hear from some who feel they need the extra dosh.
Maybe if we were all county players and had been whipped into an hypnotic frenzy by Farrell and his crew we'd feel different.
Did you not see the actuarial report? Apparently, the average inter-county player is out of pocket to the tune of €150K during the course of his inter-county career, and just because it was commissioned by the GPA does not mean it is wholly unbelievable and utter nonsense, but you have the right to judge it that way if you like. (Wonder does it take in book earnings?)
Just joining in this thread late - where can I see this actuarial report?
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on October 19, 2007, 08:55:48 AM
Quote from: Puckoon on October 18, 2007, 10:51:36 PM
Quote from: ONeill on October 18, 2007, 10:35:57 PM
I'm still waiting to hear from one player who can categorically state that he's out of pocket playing for his county. AFAIK in most counties all expenses are seen to, new gear is handed out as well as spending money on trips abroad for some. I know some counties are wealthier than others in GAA terms but I'd love to hear from some who feel they need the extra dosh.
Maybe if we were all county players and had been whipped into an hypnotic frenzy by Farrell and his crew we'd feel different.
Then theres the revenue to be made after your playing career ends - Brolly, O'Rourke, Tohill, Burns - all making plenty of money in broadcasting. Theres the writing of newspaper columns, the public speaking circuit - the generation of jobs just to keep players happy. Id be surprised if PTG leaves the house for an official public speaking engagement for under a grand - and thats all fair game!
Talk of strike is just going too far. Let them go. Theres many champing at the bit to be in their shoes.
Puckoon - with regards to revenue after your playing career ends that is just for the elite few.....do you see any Mayo hurlers or Kilkenny footballers etc getting the same benefits????
Its not the elite few (maybe in the case of tv punitry you are correct -) - most county players I know of, are extremely well looked after during their county careers. Let them produce the balance sheet that demonstrates
regular hardship because of playing. Anyone (brian McGuigan) can have unfortunate circumstances forced upon them. It is however the exception rather than the rule. Let us not forget that
playing for your county is a privilege - not a right. Before we know it kids will be running around their back yards claiming to "One day daddy - Im going to get a sports grant" instead of "I cant wait to play at croke park daddy"!
Quote from: Bogball XV on October 19, 2007, 02:57:12 PM
Quote from: ONeill on October 18, 2007, 10:35:57 PM
I'm still waiting to hear from one player who can categorically state that he's out of pocket playing for his county. AFAIK in most counties all expenses are seen to, new gear is handed out as well as spending money on trips abroad for some. I know some counties are wealthier than others in GAA terms but I'd love to hear from some who feel they need the extra dosh.
Maybe if we were all county players and had been whipped into an hypnotic frenzy by Farrell and his crew we'd feel different.
Did you not see the actuarial report? Apparently, the average inter-county player is out of pocket to the tune of €150K during the course of his inter-county career, and just because it was commissioned by the GPA does not mean it is wholly unbelievable and utter nonsense, but you have the right to judge it that way if you like. (Wonder does it take in book earnings?)
Good lord. ::) ::)
150K on mileage alone? and thats an
average? So we are expected to believe that some players are out
more than that? I was born at night, but it wasnt last night. :o
Quote from: Puckoon on October 19, 2007, 03:02:13 PM
Good lord. ::) ::)
150K on mileage alone? and thats an average? So we are expected to believe that some players are out more than that? I was born at night, but it wasnt last night. :o
Sorry, not actually all out of pocket expenses, this mythical figure includes potential earnings missed out on due to being a footballer - you know, overtime, promotions, investments missed out on........
Rois, I was reading the report earlier, it was on the GPA website (I was thinking of joining up, as I'd like direct access Bertie too), but I can't find it just now, will have another look.
I don't find it implausible that a certain level of inter-county footballer / hurler is a lot worse off in monetary terms from playing Gaelic games. But it's no different to saying I would have gotten a better degree if only I'd had the time to go to the library rather than out socialising. If players are finding the opportunity cost of their sport is too much, then they're making bad choices. They shouldn't expect the world to shift around them just because they're not willing to make the hard decisions.
Quote from: deiseach on October 19, 2007, 03:32:39 PM
I don't find it implausible that a certain level of inter-county footballer / hurler is a lot worse off in monetary terms from playing Gaelic games. But it's no different to saying I would have gotten a better degree if only I'd had the time to go to the library rather than out socialising. If players are finding the opportunity cost of their sport is too much, then they're making bad choices. They shouldn't expect the world to shift around them just because they're not willing to make the hard decisions.
You're just right deiseach, in fact I'm thinking of asking the board administrator for a salary/grant, I've possibly missed out on promotion because of all the time wasted posting on here.
Sure those actuarial reports are prob similar to pension calculations - after one year of contributions I'd enough to purchase a pension of about £7k per year when I retire in about 40 years time - assuming I lived 20 years after retirement, that would be £140,000. That includes the time value of money obviously, as I presume this €150k does too.
Deiseach, I agree.
Quote from: deiseach on October 19, 2007, 03:32:39 PM
I don't find it implausible that a certain level of inter-county footballer / hurler is a lot worse off in monetary terms from playing Gaelic games. But it's no different to saying I would have gotten a better degree if only I'd had the time to go to the library rather than out socialising. If players are finding the opportunity cost of their sport is too much, then they're making bad choices. They shouldn't expect the world to shift around them just because they're not willing to make the hard decisions.
Really? I can see some expenses here and there - but nothing huge. Where would these considerable expenses occur? 100% agree with you about it being a life choice.
QuoteYou're just right deiseach, in fact I'm thinking of asking the board administrator for a salary/grant, I've possibly missed out on promotion because of all the time wasted posting on here
OK I will start a GBPA (Gaelic Board Posting Association) and take up your case. Just first send me the €100 annual sub while I am getting some sponsorship (I get 20% of all sponsorship). I will also meet with Government to see will they give us a grant towards this compensation fund and get the GAA to give it to us as expenses in case it might be taxable. If all this fails I will call for a strike and nobody will post to the board. Should work - shouldnt it :-\
Quote from: Puckoon on October 19, 2007, 04:52:58 PM
Really? I can see some expenses here and there - but nothing huge. Where would these considerable expenses occur? 100% agree with you about it being a life choice.
I'm saying that some top players are constrained by their commitments. All other things being equal, a boss is going to be more amenable to the guy who can do overtime here, stay late there than a guy who is always charging off to training. Studies have repeatedly shown that women are held back by maternity leave, not because employers are moustache-twirling bigots (well, not many of them) but because a woman who takes six months off will see her career stand still while those of her colleagues move forward. There's not much that can be done about this, but people still have babies, and players will still want to play
Just went onto the GPA website out of curiousity. This was posted yesterday.
Sports Grants For Inter-County Players - What it's All About ...
Thursday, 18 October 2007
What's happened to date...
In 2002 the Government introduced lucrative tax breaks for Irish professional sportsmen and women. High performance amateur athletes of various other sports are also in receipt of Government funding through the Irish Sports Council. Inter-county players receive neither The GPA had, previously, conducted an actuary's report into the lives of inter-county players and it proved conclusively that players were out of pocket substantially due to their commitment to their counties.
The GPA then decided to lobby the Finance Minister to see could we receive similar financial assistance and by extension state recognition for GAA players so that there would be parity of esteem with other codes. Initially, we explored the possibility of tax relief but this was unworkable for amateur players who don't earn a living from their sports' career, we were told. So we looked at the area of sports grants, similar to the grants distributed to athletes in other codes.
We believe that the status of inter-county players in Ireland is being undermined due to the fact they are part of an amateur association. Our players are elite athletes, they are among the very highest profile athletes/ sportsmen in Ireland, they assist enormously in promoting our indigenous sports and fostering our national identity and culture. They are an important component in ensuring the GAA continues to be the most powerful sporting institution in Ireland. They also contribute hugely to the social fabric of this country, particularly during the summer months when the championships take centre stage.
We sent a proposal to the Sports Council looking for elite sportspersons grants but this was rejected on the basis that the Council would only engage with the governing body – the GAA.
We then approached the Government again directly to see was there any way of implementing a grants scheme for inter-county players so that there would be parity of esteem with other codes. We advised a sliding scale scheme of funding could be implemented where players would receive annual grant aid, the amount of which corresponded with the duration of a squad's involvement in the championship. 30 inter-county players per squad in a given season would be eligible for this grant.
The Government was favourably disposed to the idea and there was widespread, cross-party, political support.
Following intensive lobbying by the GPA over a number of years, the Government agreed to make 5million euro in funding available through the GAA. However, they stated their reluctance to get involved directly in this funding for a variety of reasons, principally because they believed it would open the floodgates for 'other sports'. Therefore, they insisted that the GPA and GAA agree terms for distributing the money and they would then make the finance available to the GAA in the form of infrastructural grants. Both the GPA and GAA thrashed out an agreement over several months, on how this money would be utilised. 75% to be used to cover out of pocket expenses for players directly, which were not already covered by the county board. 25% to enhance the player welfare programs in place, such as the injury scheme, or to establish new initiatives.
However, the GAA disagreed with the convoluted system of drawing down the money as outlined. They did not want to receive the money in this manner and did not want to have to distribute it directly to players. Although they were quite happy for the Government to do so. This was unsatisfactory for the Government. As a result we have reached an impasse.
The GPA stated clearly to both parties that, after five frustrating years negotiating on this issue, a lengthy impasse over its final implementation would be unacceptable to the GPA's membership. We were taking this issue very seriously.
The GPA called on the Government and the GAA to find a solution and we put forward the option of revisiting the Sports Council to distribute the funds. However, failure to do so would mean that we would have to return to the original scheme and find a way of having it initiated immediately through the GAA.
Having failed to make progress with the GAA or the Government, the GPA has instigated a process to implement a campaign of protest action which would entail a withdrawal of services next season. We organised four provincial meetings to sound out our county representatives and, in turn, charged our reps with gauging the mood in each camp.
The response to date has been overwhelming supportive of a strike action. GPA executives are available around the clock for any vital negotiations but in the absence of meaningful progress we have balloted all our members and have called for support for strike action. We have not taken this action lightly but we believe that the grants issue accurately reflects the status of inter-county players, inside and outside the GAA.
If you believe that you deserve the status afforded by this grants scheme we urge you to support the protest action. There is also the practical benefit of a grant, based on our findings some years back which PROVED that you were out of pocket due to your commitment to the inter-county game. This is above and beyond expenses received for same. If amateur athletes from other codes are in receipt of Government funding to assist in alleviating their own financial burden, why aren't our players? And if the Government are willing to make the funding available to the GAA, why can't our players access it?
The GAA is currently on a very severe offensive promoting what they term 'grassroots volunteerism'. The object of this campaign, we believe, is to diminish the contribution and importance of the inter-county player to the GAA. This campaign quite cleverly avoids any reference to the inter-county tier underpinning the Association's financial wellbeing, new TV/sponsorship deals and its very future.
The GPA and its members wholly respect the contribution of the volunteer not only to the GAA but to the development of the inter-county player from underage club structures to county level. Inter-county players are club players too and are proud to be. However, the status of the inter-county player should not be restricted by this symbiotic relationship. Either we value the contribution of the county man in front of 80,000 paying individuals in Croke Park, on live television, carrying sponsorship . . . or we don't
We are not looking for an introduction of professionalism. The grants do NOT differ in any way from scholarships and bursaries which are widespread in the GAA. The only difference is that every inter-county player receives this funding.
However, on a point of interest, professional tiers in other codes have NOT diminished grassroots activity. Soccer thrives at grassroots level in Ireland as does rugby. There was a falloff in the recreational elements of rugby following the move to professionalism but they are recovering due to a restructuring. Soccer does not enjoy the infrastructural success of the GAA but it is hugely successful at promoting its games, something that should not be lost in the mix.
Grants are simply nothing to do with pay for play. It is about state recognition and acknowledgment for the contribution that inter county players make in terms of the culture and heritage of this country, entertainment, positive role models and the enhancement of the social fabric of Irish society.
The players are left with no other alternative but to issue a strike threat with a view to carrying this out if no resolution is found in the interim. We have exhausted all other avenues. A ballot of all our members is being conducted currently. The withdrawal of service will be for all competitions in 2008.
Further updates to follow.
I dont think its an exaggeration to say that Dessie Farrell is now the most hated figure in the gaa. He actually has managed to con the other players into getting him a full time job that basically involves shit stirring. There's no widespread support what so ever for a strike from the county players. What makes matters worse is when the gpa guys tells lies like Enda McNulty complaining about the cost of buying drinks when everyone knows they were supplied by the county board which doesnt happen for the club players who have to drink as well.
The strike will bring an end to the GPA - Public opinion will turn against them big time !
This is on www.hoganstand.com.
Kinda inspires you with confidence about the GPA. They can count up to €5m but not apparantly one single ballot paper.
GPA rue clerical error
21 October 2007
The GPA may be forced to postpone their ballot on strike action due to a clerical error which caused confusion among players.
One player is alleged to have received four voting papers in the post.
The GPA acknowledged that they received correspondence from certain players who received more than one ballot paper but have moved to rectify the matter.
All for luck maybe !
Maybe its an attempt to appear more popular than their membership suggests.
So now they have to postpone their ballot on strike action. ::)
Nothing to do with the fact that public opinion generally ( if this board was an indicator) want them to strike to finish them once and for all .
I attended the Ulster GAA Club Comference yesterday. Club men from all over ULster. I spoke to many many people and couldn't get one person to support the GPA. They are a disruptive, divisive outfit who are hated by all genuine GAA people. Let them strike. Please. Call the whole league and c'ship off next year. See what it's like to be an ordinary player again. Bastards
I second that emotion.
Ross Carr said in the GL that his opinions on the GPA are unprintable and that Down players are well looked after and that he would always be able to find 25-30 lads that would be willing to play for Down regardless of strike action . Fair play to him .
That's the spirit Ross Carr. The more lads and counties that come out and say that the better.
Could we trust the GPA to count the ballots honestly?
Remember what happened with Padraig Joyce and Declan Meehan over the player of the year award.
A "recount" of the ballots revealed that Meehan had won the award, once it became clear that the winner Padraig Joyce couldn't attend the award ceremony. ;D
The only sporting individuals who are strident in their support for a strike, it seems to me, are those whose passion is soccer, rugby, or some other non-GAA sport... the usual suspects. The GPA is well past its use-by date.
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on October 18, 2007, 12:49:04 AMDo people really care that little about the GAA that they will refuse to train or go to matches or assist in clubs if county players receive sports grants of around 1,000 Euro a year????
Will clubs refuse to allow their county players to play club football because of it??? Will the refuse to allow them to train the younger teams etc???
And what about the poor old club player who travels from the likes of Belfast to Derry to train twice a week? Who is going to to give them a grant?
Compensation for GAA players is the responsibility of their club and their county. No one else!!
The GPA are a joke and the vast majority of true Gaels are now seeing them for what they are.
Just reading over the papers from home online and Tom Brewster has some very harsh words in the local Fermanagh paper about the strike. He claims the overwhelming majority of players in Fermanagh are keen to strike. Find it all very surprising.
From Impartial Reporter
Tom Brewster has told the Impartial Reporter that there is overwhelming support for strike action among Fermanagh players.
The prospect of inter county GAA players going on strike moved a step closer last week after the Gaelic Players Association (GPA) announced that they have issued members with a ballot for strike action.
The threat has arisen due to the ongoing impasse between the players, the GAA and the Irish Government over the implementation of 5million euro worth of sports grant. However, The GPA still hope that the problem can be resolved without the need for what GPA chief executive Dessie Farrell describes as "the nuclear option."
"Basically, there is 5million euro a year in place, additional to any other funding that the GAA already receive, and is specifically for the players, but the problem is that there is no agreement on how the funds are to be implemented," explained GPA member Brewster.
With no agreement in sight, Brewster states that there is a strong backing for the call to strike after every county squad in Ireland was contacted to gauge the mood regarding the grants issue and any possible protest.
"The vast majority of players in Fermanagh, and indeed Ulster, are in favour of going on strike. I don't want to see strike action, that's not what we want, and hopefully it can be resolved before that. But we feel strongly about this and want things sorted out. We also realise that this affects the supporters and this is definitely something which we don't want, but we feel we may be left with little other option," stated Brewster.
The Enniskillen Gaels man, though, is keen to emphasise that this funding is not a method of pay for play but a way of covering extra expenses that players occur, that are not covered by the normal expenses.
"No, this is not a way of receiving pay for play and I personally don't want to see the GAA going down that line as I don't think that it is sustainable. It is to cover additional expenses that players are out of pocket, that our regular expenses do not cover. Studies have shown that players are massively out of pocket over a ten year period and that should not be the case.
"Let me give you an example. Last year I went to an ice chamber, which helps with the speed of recovery. There was no problem there, the county board was great in sorting it out for me, but I then had to take four days unpaid leave after it. Nobody covers that, I lost nearly a week's pay," he said.
There are many further examples of this including players missing out on overtime due to playing commitments or missing out on promotions at work because they are not able to give the same commitment to their job.
Brewster even recalls a teammate changing jobs to accommodate his training schedule with the county squad.
"I remember a few years ago we used to train on a certain night of the week because it suited most of the players but one prominent Fermanagh player used to work late that night and he actually changed jobs to fit in football," said Brewster.
Farrell has advised members to vote in favour of the strike which will consist of a removal of players from all inter county competitions next season with results of the ballot due in about two weeks.
However, he is hopeful that the issue will be resolved without the need for strike action.
I'm sure noone is forcing Mr Brewster to play football or anyone else for that matter. If i get injured in a club game and cant go to work will the GPA strike for me! They dont give a shit about the ordinary GAA player. We all want the players to be treated well but if it affecting them that much to play it they should just stop. Every gaelic player in the country has to make sacrifices, some more than others. If they do strike they will be digging their own grave.
See this is the nub of the matter, and I think Mr. Brewster is missing the point. No-one is disputing the award of these grants, now that it is clear the money is nothing to do with the GAA. The GAA support it, and most members are happy enough with it, as long as the GAA is not seen to be paying the money. Noone wants to see the players suffering financially for playing the games.
The problem here is the logistics of paying the money out, and the GAA's need to protect themselves against a future elimination of the grant by the government, which would then put the onus on them to continue paying, if they are seen to be the lads doling out the money now.
A strike is a strike against the GAA and the members and supporters of the GAA. The argument should be with the government and the sports council, not with the GAA. The GPA seem to be completely ignoring this, as they realise their only effective (??) tool is a strike against the GAA.
But Brewster's article is the latest in a long line of GPA supporters putting forward this argument that people are against the grant, hence we must strike. It;s a nonsense.
Talk about blinkered. It would appear that Tom is not aware that club players get injured >:(. What type of journalism is it that always this type of rant without questioning him in some way. Is that from the advertising section of the newspaper ???
Hating the GPA more than ever
Quote from: theskull1 on October 26, 2007, 02:10:16 PM
Talk about blinkered. It would appear that Tom is not aware that club players get injured >:(. What type of journalism is it that always this type of rant without questioning him in some way. Is that from the advertising section of the newspaper ???
Hating the GPA more than ever
The difference is that county players would tend to be training harder than club players and by earning the income they are earning for the GAA that all clubs etc benefit...
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on October 26, 2007, 02:23:29 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on October 26, 2007, 02:10:16 PM
Talk about blinkered. It would appear that Tom is not aware that club players get injured >:(. What type of journalism is it that always this type of rant without questioning him in some way. Is that from the advertising section of the newspaper ???
Hating the GPA more than ever
The difference is that county players would tend to be training harder than club players and by earning the income they are earning for the GAA that all clubs etc benefit...
;D ;D ;D ;D Oh you naive fool you.
Do you really think that this money will be funneled through the clubs ??
In regards of training harder, thats another debate altogether. If the argument is to do with training harder the government should give the money to some of the special Olympic athletes to help them overcome some immense obstacles.
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on October 26, 2007, 02:23:29 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on October 26, 2007, 02:10:16 PM
Talk about blinkered. It would appear that Tom is not aware that club players get injured >:(. What type of journalism is it that always this type of rant without questioning him in some way. Is that from the advertising section of the newspaper ???
Hating the GPA more than ever
The difference is that county players would tend to be training harder than club players and by earning the income they are earning for the GAA that all clubs etc benefit...
have to disagree with that
club players (in senior clubs) train as hard as intercounty sides - but do not get the fringe benefits (holidays, gym memberships, free gear, food/fruit/drink allowances etc) or looked after nearly as well.
Also its not the players that people pay in to see, its the counties
it could be 15 christy browns playing for dublin (not so long ago youd almost think it was) and the hill 16 and croker would still be packed
the players dont EARN the money for the GAA,
they participate in the GAME that earns the money - throw in the dublin juniors instead of the dublin senior side (eg they went on strike) the hill and croker would still be packed if they were playing meath or kildare etc
you and hte GPa are entitled to your opinions, but you - like the rest of the gpa,have lost a little bit of focus on reality..
Quote from: Bensars on October 26, 2007, 02:50:43 PM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on October 26, 2007, 02:23:29 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on October 26, 2007, 02:10:16 PM
Talk about blinkered. It would appear that Tom is not aware that club players get injured >:(. What type of journalism is it that always this type of rant without questioning him in some way. Is that from the advertising section of the newspaper ???
Hating the GPA more than ever
The difference is that county players would tend to be training harder than club players and by earning the income they are earning for the GAA that all clubs etc benefit...
;D ;D ;D ;D Oh you naive fool you.
Do you really think that this money will be funneled through the clubs ??
In regards of training harder, thats another debate altogether. If the argument is to do with training harder the government should give the money to some of the special Olympic athletes to help them overcome some immense obstacles.
So if anyone turning up in a county jersey will bring the crowds in why are the crowds lower for League games etc???? Why do counties get support for hurling and not football and vice versa??? Why do counties support suddenly increase exponentially when there is a chance of success????
I am not even a member of the GPA - I just think that their seems to be a view that the GPA is solely about pay for play and nothing else......and that the GAA is the best thing since sliced bread and they have to be right and the GPA be wrong.....(ie we don't care if you get money as long as we don't give it to you)....
Bensars - Yes the Govt does supply grants to the olympic athletes and the special olympic athletes......
Are you saying that clubs don't receive money from GAA County receipts???
MacEoghain - So you are totally against anyone in the GAA being paid then???? Or does it depend on who they are??? Managers/Coaches/Physios/Dieticians/Administrators etc can all be paid but the county players who everyone is thrilled to watch during the summer etc is to be denied govt funding that exists for a lot more amatuer athletes????
QuoteSo if anyone turning up in a county jersey will bring the crowds in why are the crowds lower for League games etc?Huh
DubsForSam, I think you may have unintentionally scuppered your own argument there. Given the fact that most of the county teams play their full strength teams in the league, if it were the players that were the draw, rather than the competition and the chance for glory for your county, then the league games would be sell outs as well.
People, at least most people, follow the GAA for the express purpose of seeing their county, represented by lads from that county, have a chance at glory in the Championship. Of course some people are more interested in the games than others, and they are the lads who make the treks in February to watch Offaly and Donegal (for example) in a League game in Ballybofey.
The majority of both sets of fans, the hard core league and challenge match goers, and the Summer sunshine brigade, are only interested in one thing. Their county winning. The county jersey was worn by hundreds of men over the years, and please God, by hundreds in the future. For the men who have the honour of wearing it now, and honour it certainly is, it is fleeting and as soon as they get injured or leave, someone else will step into their shoes, and the county, the games and the competitions will continue regardless, and the people will come to watch. They come to watch not because of the skill of the Gooch, or the dynamism of Whelo, or the artistry with stick of Henry Shefflin or Eoin Kelly. They admire all those things, and they appreciate the beauty. But the reason they are there, the reason WE are all there is to cheer on the men wearing OUR county jerseys. Carrying our hopes and dreams as we live vicariously through them. And most people who love the GAA would cheer on (and moan about, and abuse) anyone wearing the county jersey, regardless of who they are.
I honestly believe that to be the case, and I honestly feel that if the strike goes ahead, and the GAA makes up its mind to break the strike by simply deeming those lads unavailable for selection, then the GPA will lose.
Sorry for the poetic prose, but I really feel that the GPA have misjudged the wind on this one. I could be wrong, but I honestly doubt it.
In a nutshell AZ.
perfectly put AZ!!
QuoteI honestly believe that to be the case, and I honestly feel that if the strike goes ahead, and the GAA makes up its mind to break the strike by simply deeming those lads unavailable for selection, then the GPA will lose.
Absolutely. Unless you're Brain McGuigan, Brian Dooher, Stephen O'Neill or Sean Cavanagh I'd pity you're future in Tyrone colours if you were to tell Mickey Harte you weren't going to play even if picked.
I read in todays Irish News that Tom Brewster is backing the nuclear option of a strike - this will be a very divisive issue and needs to be avoided at all costs - so pay the money !
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/7071801.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/7071801.stm)
QuoteGaelic Players Association chief executive Dessie Farrell is expecting a 90 per cent vote in favour of strike action over the grants issue impasse.
The ballot of over 1,800 players was to close on Wednesday but this has been put back to 7 November because of the recent Northern Ireland postal strike.
However, Farrell appears convinced that the leadership will be backed.
"Having done our homework beforehand... I don't think there will be an issue on it," said Farrell.
The GPA deems the action necessary due to "the ongoing failure of the GAA and the Government to implement sports grants for intercounty players".
Speaking of his belief that the GPA leadership will be supported by a landslide vote, Farrell added: "That's what we are led to believe anecdotally but we will have to wait until the ballot to confirm that.
"We are leaving all that to the auditors to ensure that everything is above board and transparent.
"It is very much a last resort and the players do not want to engage in this kind of activity, but nonetheless if it needs to be, it needs to be."
If the ballot supports strike action it would mean a removal of players from inter-county competitions next season.
Four provincial meetings were also held to assess the mood in relation to the contentious grants issue and any potential protest.
Following a recent meeting with the Irish Government, Farrell said that "no progress" had been made on the central issue of how to distribute the mooted government grants.
The Government has said it would make 5 million Euro available for the scheme.
However, the sticking point is that the GAA and GPA are both unhappy with the government plan to distribute the cash.
The Irish Government wants the money to be made available to the GAA in infrastructure grants but Croke Park is deeply unhappy with this proposal.
There appears to be a belief within the Croke Park hierarchy that combining the two schemes could lead to a reduction in money for facilities for the wider GAA.
Someone should tell Dessie there's been no postal strike in the north for weeks.
I see Dessie is expecting 90% of players to vote in favour of the strike and for it to go ahead. If it does go ahead it will be a sad day for the gaa and that prat Dessie Farrell has a lot to answer for. All he wants to do these days is cause division. I think if they do strike the fans shouldnt bother turning up for games after it and let them know that the gaa isnt all about the county players. Im not sure how the likes of Harte would react to the strike - he'll be looking for 100% focus from his players and will want to defend the McKenna Cup. The players striking certainly wouldnt indicate the focus the county managers would be looking for.
Arthur Scargill has offered his services to the GPA
Quote from: Over the Bar on October 31, 2007, 08:27:43 PM
Arthur Scargill has offered his services to the GPA
what scargill stated would happen in the early 1980's under that whore thatcher came true
i wouldnt disgrace him with linking him with that set of slappers in the gpa - let them strike - theyll have to set up a village somewhere with their own club team coz no-one is gonna want to touc >:(h them
Would be great to see him with egg on his face.
Will it be a landslide, or is he just bluffing? Is he bluffing for the media, or to try and influence the votes of the players?
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 31, 2007, 11:04:10 PM
Would be great to see him with egg on his face.
Will it be a landslide, or is he just bluffing? Is he bluffing for the media, or to try and influence the votes of the players?
I doubt the OSCE will send independent observers to monitor the counting - When in doubt - fix the result :P
In all seriousness, of course they'll get 90% considering it's just GPA members. I wonder will they will be as forthcoming with the following information.
a) How many of the 2000 odd county players are members of the GPA and "entitled" to vote
b) What was the "turnout" - how many of their members actually bothered voting
c) How many "associate" members have they?
d) Did they get a vote?
FAO Dessie - this will be a very bad move for GPA - please don't even think about striking - you have the high moral ground - so keep it - if you strike, even for 1 day, you will have lost all respect -
Tyrone86 is spot on.
I'm not 100% sure but in the GAA when a meeting is held it normally needs 20% of members present to be a valid meeting. I wonder will even 20% of the 2000 players vote. I now the GPA has its own rules but is there a copy of their constitution anywhere? I wonder will 400 players vote? I doubt it. In my mind only the most militant will vote and they are always going to vote for a strike. Those who are apathetic or simply do not give a shit will not vote.
I have to say that I think there is more chance of Spurs winning the premiership than there is on dessie telling us how many people voted. Indeed I think it is all rather suss? Why put the voting back cos a postal strike. It has been over for weeks. Perhaps dessie got fock all votes back and is now going to send the message around to his lieutenants in each county to get their fellow players to vote.
I hope they go on strike
I also hope that ALL county boards drop any striking players and they will see that the association - US - will not tolerate such petty strops from them.
Let young players who WANT to play football and hurling play for their counties.
gaelic games will go on without these gpa people
I couldn't agree more.
Amen
I might anticipate that some, or many county managers will side with their GPA-member players on this one and that will make things more messy. If county boards want to carry on regardless, they will have to find somebody (a county board official, say) to take charge of the replacement team. That, in turn, may make it harder to get 15-30 lads willing to turn out than if it was just the same set-up with new players.
Quote from: Hardy on November 01, 2007, 10:52:36 AM
I might anticipate that some, or many county managers will side with their GPA-member players on this one and that will make things more messy. If county boards want to carry on regardless, they will have to find somebody (a county board official, say) to take charge of the replacement team. That, in turn, may make it harder to get 15-30 lads willing to turn out than if it was just the same set-up with new players.
was thinking of the same thing earlier.
EG Coyle wont go against his players.
Best thing is for the counties to field their u21 sides imo - plus any decent players asked to join in that will.
u21 managers can run this...they would be delighted to do so I am sure - if the county boss wont.
County team mangers will also have to toe the line too - or its a toe up the hole to a p45
I think you may be right Hardy. I can see a lot of managers, especially those already getting illegal payments, following the GPA. After all, if things get messy and the players start saying things like '****** gets paid €200 a session, why can't we?'.
That would be no bad thing either in my opinion, so we could lift that particular dirty rock and sort out those payments.
I really hope a strike doesnt happen but it would be very interesting to see how it played out if it did happen.
Personally I think the GPA have every right to ask for whatever they want to ask for, but at the same time the GAA are of course in the right to deny them direct pay for play. If the GPA organised a strike because of some issue with expenses or insurance or similar, then I'd support them 100%, but in this case while the GAA moved slowly to start with, I dont see how they can do much more so I don't really understand why a strike is called for - I can only guess that its an attempt to play hardball to get the GAA/govt to find a solution expediently. I'm sure the extra weeks for voting is to ensure that there are no or very few big club games on if/when a strike is called and I'd be very surprised if any strike lasts until the beginning of the National League.
But even if a strike is called in the off season it'll be very interesting to see what contingency plans are set up. Personally I can't see the DCB going against the Dublin players (as I'm sure the management team will not go against the players), so I couldnt see a Dublin senior team playing while a strike is ongoing. The Under 21 teams could still play, but only in U21 competitions.