any ideas as to who wil be regarded as the bright new talent in your respective counties for the '07 season?
Tyrone: Justin McMahon, Colm Cavanagh and Raymond Mulgrew.
Quote from: Take Your Points on December 03, 2006, 12:58:07 PM
Tony Kernan, see him today on TG4 as Cross go for another Ulster title.
I doubt it typ.
Roscommon: Cathal Cregg
Isnt this like the 3 one of these we've had? If i'm wrong i do apologise
Quote from: Take Your Points on December 04, 2006, 07:34:39 PM
If emerging talent means breaking into a county squad or team then Tony Kernan or Paul Kernan. The latest members of the Kernan household to get Ulster Championship medals. Just wee Ross left to make it!
Fair enough I thought the topic starter meant real talent rather than breaking on to the county team because of who your daddy is.
In fairness, Pint, Paul Kernan played well against Ballinderry, the Irish News had him as MOM. Such a performance in the Ulster club final suggests promise, whoever your father is!
Quote from: armaghniac on December 04, 2006, 07:45:58 PM
In fairness, Pint, Paul Kernan played well against Ballinderry, the Irish News had him as MOM. Such a performance in the Ulster club final suggests promise, whoever your father is!
A lot of ones said John Donaldson was man of the match, would you want him in a county jersey?
QuoteA lot of ones said John Donaldson was man of the match, would you want him in a county jersey?
John Donaldson is 33 (or thereabouts), hardly a prospect for the future. Paul Kernan is a prospect because he played well and should be capable of further improvement. Of course his achievements are unlikely to escape the notice of Armagh management, but that doesn't mean he isn't a prospect!
Dessie Mones re-involvment with Monaghan will be a huge boost, he has been outstanding for Clontibret all year, Also Castleblayney Faughs' Ciaran Hanratty will be one to watch.
I know your love of all things Kernan knows no bounds but Paul is definitely a potential. He played a significant role in the minor team that beat Down a few years ago and will only get better as he is playing weekly with good players. Maybe not this year but in the next few years he should make the breakthrough. If Tony can stay free of injury he will also be a contender. Also in Cross Brendan(Skinny) McKeown is pushing hard. He is 23/24 and is very well thought of. He would have been more regular in the Cross team over the last few years but for his fouling. He seems to have curbed that and if coached right could be a very good player.
Whatever happened to the Granemore minors from the last few years? I think there was a lad called McClelland was a good player?
David McKenna od Cross. Is it too early for him to be considered for the County seniors?
jaysus give the lads a chance to establish themselves for cross seniors before yas start talking of taking them onto the armagh senior panel. paul kernan has only started the last 3 games in the championship and mc kennas game sun was his first start in ulster so let them have a chance to get established with their senior club team before ther pushed onto any armagh panel
they are all great prospects but that is all they are at the minute so let them play senior club football for 2 or 3 years and take it from ther
Sorry for butting in, but Paddy Curran and Tommy Walsh and maybe David Moran from the Kerry minors this year will be closely watched over the next few seasons to see if they can build on their potential.
Now back to the Kernan thread....
Now back to the Kernan thread....
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thanks kerry mike ;)
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 05, 2006, 09:00:51 AM
I know your love of all things Kernan knows no bounds but Paul is definitely a potential. He played a significant role in the minor team that beat Down a few years ago and will only get better as he is playing weekly with good players. Maybe not this year but in the next few years he should make the breakthrough. If Tony can stay free of injury he will also be a contender. Also in Cross Brendan(Skinny) McKeown is pushing hard. He is 23/24 and is very well thought of. He would have been more regular in the Cross team over the last few years but for his fouling. He seems to have curbed that and if coached right could be a very good player.
I don't think I've ever been overly critical of the Kernans, and I've even stood up for Aaron a few times. Paul and Tony may have county potential but so have a lot of other young players in the county, and at least 2 in my own club, but who do we think is going to be callled up to the county panel to be given chance after chance after chance?
Trueblue - I understand your call for caution. And of course, young lads should not be rushed into senior county squads - if they re not good enough.
From what I've seen of young McKenna (in my opinion he has the most potential of Cross's burgeoning talent) he could hold his own among Armagh's current midfield options. I know he is a tall rangy lad who will fill out, but I have already seen him outfield an established county midfielder much earlier this year as well as deliver incisive and visionary passes you'd associate with a player more seasoned. He seems to have improved significantly from his county minor days and next season he could be more than a viable option. You don't know until he's tested among such company.
Armagh's midfied, for me, was our weakest line last year - apart from the h/f line, of course. While McGrane and McGeeney coped admirably, often thjis was an aera where we were out run and outfielded. When we played Derry in the league last year I was horrified to see Johnny McBride give McGrane a 2 yard start in a race for the ball and win pocession uncontested. McBride is not a noted speed merchant. McGeeney can't cope with the likes of a D O Se, Nicolas Murphy in terms of clean fetches (few can), but McGeeney lacks vital height for this area.
The Meath game last year also exposed the paucity of our midfield options. Swift was replaced and Loughran fared not much better. Mackin works hard, but may lack just that little bit of class (although in the fist McKenna Cup game last year he was running the show).
If McKenna's good enough he's worth trying. We lack a that bit of class in the middle of the field and I feel if Armagh are to have a shot at any success next year it is vital that we have the best of the new bunch playing with the best of the old bunch who are still the best in their positions. Anyways, he'll not be cnsidered until after 17 March (hopefully), and perhaps the two (again, hopefully) AI club games will show if he has that bit of class I suspect he has.
Absolutely ridiculous mentioning players who haven't made their club team yet as senior county material, irrespective of the standard of the club team in question.
would it not be more in line for these lads to try and get a place on the county u21 panel, which most of them have yet to do, before turning their heads with nonsense about county football? ffs give them a chance.
for example, young mckenna has great potential, but doesn't start on his cub team and hasn't been on the county u21 panel. nor will he be on the u21 team next year, so that's pleanty of potential in the queue in front of him.
uladh i agree wholeheartedly with ure previous comment. but im pretty sure that mc kenna will be on the armagh u21 panel for the coming season as will johhnny hanratty and the 2 kernans. but these lads need a chance to establish themselves a bit with their clubs before putting them onto the armagh senior panel.
i would also agree with pints that their are lots of equally if not better players out their but because their clubs arent playing at the same level as cross these players arent getting the same level of exposure by the media.so i think that this should be considered by joe when picking his panel for the forthcoming year
trueblue i agree wit 100% how is alot of the talent in the likes of division 3 an 4 meant 2 get a chance, its a joke really.
Quote from: Kerry Mike on December 05, 2006, 02:40:39 PM
Sorry for butting in, but Paddy Curran and Tommy Walsh and maybe David Moran from the Kerry minors this year will be closely watched over the next few seasons to see if they can build on their potential.
Now back to the Kernan thread....
tommy walsh was brilliant in the minor final this year. i'd say he'll soon make the step up to senior (totally based on that one performce ;) )
Uladh - Is it really "absolutely ridiculous" to suggest that someone who is no longer a minor be drafted into the senior panel. Look at the impact Ronan Clarke made giving a legend of the game the runaround in the AI final. I honestly believe it is rubbish to say that you must be established here or there or have this much experience blah blah.
If any lad is good enough now (and if he's better than what is available) then he's good enough. I only mentioned McKenna of the Cross youngsters who in my opinion could be considered next year (after minor) among all the emerging talent of the last number of years to make that automatic step-up. I'm not saying the others are not good enough nor that they won't be. I feel they are players that may need that bit more time.
McKenna has improved, enough to be considered in senior company. I think Armagh have not tried to inject real youth (perhaps they are not at the required standard yet) into the team.
Perhaps it is too early for him. Perhaps. But a run out among players (county midfielders) I have already seen him outplay, to me at least, does not seem fanciful to suggest he be tried at this level. Then again, I may have not seen enough of him to be sure he's worth a call-up at this stage.
Ronan Clarke was a prodigious talent as an intercounty minor and colleges star.
Ronan Clarke has started on his club team since he was 16/17.
Ronan Clarke was a leading light on the county u21 team at 17 and 18 before he played for armagh in the championship.
Ronan Clarke spent a full year on the county panel before he got a game.
Young McKenna is none of things but this doesn't preclude him from being a county panellist or better in the years ahead.
Get a bit of sense.
Bernard Brogan, brother of Alan.
The brothers will rip up defences next year.
I hope.
daithi mckeown clontiberet?
Quote from: charlie stubbs on December 06, 2006, 01:53:59 PM
daithi mckeown clontiberet?
dathai is a real workhorse of a player but its doubtful if hes up to county standard.hes still got another year at u21 level for monaghan so that may bring him on abit aswell
iv saw him play he can fetch a ball
martin mc kenna rma harps?
i know dathai personally and played with him at college i dont tink hed have the committment for the county football,he likes his beer the same boyo :D :D
that mc kenna chaps still u21 isnt he? we played the harps a couple weeks ago in a challenge game and i think i was marking that lad,does he play a wing back? hes a fast and fit sorta player but he wouldnt be particularly strong if its the boy am thinking of
Tommy Walsh, did he play midfield for Kerry minors, what a brute for a minor. Is he Sean Walsh's son, physically very similar
no theres a ciaran mckenna?marty is a midfielder and wont play anywhere else!
heard ur man mckeown drove a van round queens lawn,doing handbrake turns is that the same person i thinking bot?
QuoteTommy Walsh, did he play midfield for Kerry minors, what a brute for a minor. Is he Sean Walsh's son, physically very similar
Thats the lad he plays full forward in the senior team for Kerins O'Rahillys. His father Sean Walsh was a big lump of a lad as well so he is well breed.
thats the same one alrite ;D ;D do ya know him ureself? ya must be a student aswel then??
Uladh - No disputing what you say (if a little exaggerated to support your argument). Peter Quigley was the most talented player on that MacRory team of 2000, but it wasn't suggested that he be brought into the senior squad. Sean Cavanagh wasn't even the pick of the team at that time, but quickly progressed when introduced to the Tyrone seniors. Slevin at midfield hinted at lots of promise (is he playing with the Ogs?), as much as any of that team that has gone on to achieve highly in the game.
Did McKenna have the chance to play Macrory football, was he among a talented bunch of youngsters at school who could have brought the whole team to a stage of the competition where his talents could have been properly accessed by those who grant College All Stars. How good an Ogs team was it that saw fit to start a 16-17 year old in its seniors. Was the Ogs team of that time equivalent to the Cross team in which McKenna is considered capable of starting.
McKenna is tall rangy lad and will develop further as he fills out. Does that in itself mean he is not ready now? No. As I have said, I base my assessment on his ability on the allbeit limited number of times I have seen him play. He has always impressed. I have seen Clarke in club games and you'd have been hard pressed to identify him as county standard. I only used Clarke as an example of the impact someone of ability can make, and he progressed nicely through the summer of '02.
The point I'm am making is that I think that this lad has shown enough to me to suggest that he could be given his chance in senior company. As I have stated he dominated a county midfileder earlier this year. That does not appear to have been a one-off performace. I am not comparing McKenna directly with any other player merely pointing out that to me, he has the necessary all-round assets which even at this time is sufficiently developed to give an account of himself at senior level within the county se-up. But I concede that it may be too early for him. I merely suggeted him on nothing other than the evidence as I see it (if this is not a contradiction in terms). To be honest, I do think it is a bit early for him and is only a consideration in light of the dearth of current midfielders at senior level. At this stage I would have McKenna ahead of James Byrne who played county midfield for the u-21s this year. (it has just dawned on me, the big full forward who dropped back in those games has great hands and dives through the middle)
I really don't want to get embroiled in an argument with you, especially as you believe I am making totally irrational judgements and am devoid of sense. Clearly what I see as reasoned arguments (and caveats that he may not be ready) hold no sway with you. And that, my friend is all I have to say on the matter (now huffing).
Keep an eye for Cathal McKeever in both derry teams this year- just returned from NY where he has been on both NY panel's last year. He is a brother of Kieran and Emmett. Brilliant Prospect!!!
James Byrne who played county midfield for the u-21s this year.
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do you mean james lavery?? james byrne used to play for armagh and still plays for clann eireann. james lavery plays for st. marys college and the armagh u21s. hes from maghery. is that who u were referring to?
In Galway hurling, apart from the obvious, Kerrill Wade should be nearer to the big breakthrough this year while I have a feeling that we'll see more of Keith Kilkenny, (Ollie's son), and minor keeper James Skehill.
In football, St. James, Renmore have a couple of promising young bucks, Eoin Concannon and ? Conroy - if they don't get burned out through overuse (and other things).
Yes Trueblue, I meant James Lavery. Sorry, got confused.
Stefan Forker from Maghery could be one to watch too. Big strong lad. Seems able to take points from distance.
Nothing much coming through for Laois :(
Peter O'Leary played in the Mayo game(s) this year, keep an eye out for him, devastating speed from wing back.
Another young lad Mick Tierney might get a chance in the forwards but he's yet another small cut of a lad...
And they'll probably try a new keeper (Gorman or Nolan) in the O'Byrne Cup and NFL but Fergal Byron is unlikely to be displaced come the day of the championship
Quote from: trueblue on December 06, 2006, 09:16:23 AM
i would also agree with pints that their are lots of equally if not better players out their but because their clubs arent playing at the same level as cross these players arent getting the same level of exposure by the media.so i think that this should be considered by joe when picking his panel for the forthcoming year
Don't hold your breath :-\
Quote from: ballwasthere on December 07, 2006, 05:37:29 PM
Uladh, Peter Quigley struggled to make that particular team and was not a regular starter. -hardly fair to say he was above Clarke, Cavanagh and c. ???
I don't follow you
I concede. I said I wouln't engage again on this, but I concede. :) If the Roscommon management feel their star minor midfielder does not warrant a call-up to their seniors then who am I to suggest a raw, unproven 19 year old be thrown in at the deep.
Although - and I whisper as I am no longer engaging on this - I[i] would like to see McKenna given a wee spin out among the seniors.[/i] There, I said it. On this particular debate I have officially retired (but in a Brian Corcoran kind of retirement announcement way depending on what comes back!) ;)
what club are you from imposerous?
I think to illistrate the point we are making i'll put forward the name of Dromintee's Gareth O'Neill. He is a permenant fixture on his club team and was the dominant midfielder in each of armagh u21's (a panel mckenna didn't make) games this year. he is bigger and more mobile than mckenna and has huge potential as a county midfielder. however, his club did not participate in the ulster championship so he doesn't get any exposure. why should mckenna be ahead of him in the queue for the senior panel?
had another club won the armagh championship and have a decent minor to bring on as sub, should that automatically qualify the same guy for a run with the county.
you are misguided in your evaluation of club players.
Uladh - I had forgotten about Gareth O'Neill (you'll see it dawned on me in an earlier post). And you're right, he has huge potential. I may well be misguided about club players, however, as McKenna is the only player that I have mentioned I feel I'm harshly treated by that. I based my opinions on McKenna having seen him dominate Collie Holmes and Gareth Swift in a club game. He outfielded, out-though and out ran these lauded (excessively so) players. He is improving all the time - although i'd quetion if he isn't as mobile as O'Neill (who now that I recall would deserve a chance ahead of all). What is the story with him at the moment.
Pints - Club, Cookstown (may explain my lack of Armagh club players - and my outting as a man-bag wearer on the other side) from way back but would have a passing knowledge of Cross. Armagh are the county team I support.
O'Neill (who now that I recall would deserve a chance ahead of all). What is the story with him at the moment.
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hes at st marys in belfast and hes playing u21s with dromintee. hes still u21 for the forthcoming year. but he will prob be involved with st marys in the mc kennna cup so joe can have a bit of a look at him in that