Just wondering. 4 days before it and nobody on a GAA Discussion Board is interested. This place is dead. Try here for some decent discussion
http://www.kilkennycats.com/ (http://www.kilkennycats.com/)
He has a point 5times. Last year there was a thread running to 3 or 4 pages on the hurling final. This year nil. It's getting more like a Discussion Board for very young football fans.
Anyway Limerick are unchanged. When to the Cats name their team. No way I can see Limerick winning this. I expect it to be close for an hour and Kilkenny to pull away at the end. Just like they've done all year.
Ok... I got my tickets yesterday, accomodation booked, looking forward to my 2nd hurling final in a row!
Can the sheer passion from Limerick over come the class of Kilkenny???
& will the 'King' Henry claim player of the year again??
By the way...I think the fact the Board has been split up has actually hurt hurling discussion rather than improved it! - it now has less 'drop ins'!
I'd love to see Limerick do it (and no offence to the Cats) but its hard to see it. However, stranger things have happened and a couple of goals, a shower of rain or a wet day could change matters. From Limerick you will get savage heart and that is nearly always one of the ingredients for an upset.
Trying to continue making the case - KK's run to the final without facing a Munster team makes it hard to exactly gauge where they are. What, for example, if Galway were brutal and KK just made them look good with a lethargic display? Wexford being able to beat Tipp and then take a second trimming from KK looks a more reliable guide.
So hard to see the Treaty men do it but lets hope its a good game.
By the way...I think the fact the Board has been split up has actually hurt hurling discussion rather than improved it! - it now has less 'drop ins'!
there was zero discussion on hurling before the split- at least there is some now. Anyway there isn't much discussion on football these days just the banal rubbish about Dublin people in general from bitter Laois people or certain nordies who have a particular grudge.
On the final itself i hope Kilkenny win. I think they are a hurling team- i think Limerick aren't. Limerick will hit anything that moves for the first 20 mins- if KK survive that onsault i can't see limerick putting up the requisite score required to win. They certainly won't score 5 goals on the kk defence and i can't see them hitting the 18-19 points needed to win. The massed defence won't work either for Limerick as Cha and these lads can score from 80 yards offeither hand. Kk are going very well in training according to observers and I'd be surprised if they don't win by 10 points.
For me there simply is a gulf in class - it's a lot easier in football for a mediocre team to beta a good team- doesn't happen in hurling except on very rare occasions and i don't see this as one of them.
Kilkennny are even money -6 pts on Sunday, get the house on it.
Like most neutrals I'd love to see Limerick do it, a lot depends on how Begley plays and if Hickeys fit. I've a feeling that Limerick already had their final, much like Galway in 05...
I can't see anywhere on the field that Limerick could have/generate a match-winning advantage. I think that the Kilkenny -6 on evens looks very generous indeed.
I'd like to see Limerick do it, I know how much the genuine hurling people in Limerick would love to see an All Ireland again. Having said that, I cannot see the Cats being beaten. What I expect to see is ferocious intensity for about 40 minutes from Limerick, but Kilkenny are no shrinking violets and I would expect them to still be narrowly ahead at this stage. Probably a goal or something will come then and Kilkenny will suck the life out of a tiring Limerick to win by 8-9 points. I hope I'm wrong.
Going to be 2002 All Ireland all over again when Kilkenny always had the "upper hand" in the game over a spirited Clare side who had shocked Waterford in the semi final with a powerhouse display of agressive hurling .... deja vu anyone.
Limerick will take their tackling right to the edge on Sunday but that won't bother Kilkenny the way it did Waterford, Shefflin, Comerford etc are well able to take the abuse and keep hurling while anyone "dishing" it out to the likes of Noel Hickey, Tommy Walsh et al better be careful for what they wish for.
If the day is anyway fine at all expect Kilkenny to win by 6-8 pts after a tight and hard hitting first half - Limerick just won't score enough to win although I notice that they have scored 19 points a game this year which isn't bad but still six points off Kilkenny average point taking of 24. Limerick need goals to win this game but it's hard to see Kilkenny even at a push conceding more than two and I think that Limerick will need at least three to win.
Hope I'm wrong and would love Limerick to win but can't see it - minor game will probably be the better match on Sunday.
Everyone knows my old view on Limerick but John Allen has made me change my ways. It really hit home how I am every bit as evil as al-Qaeda.
So my view on the final is - whoever John Allen tips I'll go with that.
Quote from: Goats Do Shave on August 29, 2007, 09:23:21 AM
Ok... I got my tickets yesterday, accomodation booked, looking forward to my 2nd hurling final in a row!
Can the sheer passion from Limerick over come the class of Kilkenny???
& will the 'King' Henry claim player of the year again??
By the way...I think the fact the Board has been split up has actually hurt hurling discussion rather than improved it! - it now has less 'drop ins'!
How did you manage to get 2 tickets?? Might have to get involved in running the interfirms myself next year if this is one of the perks!!
As for the match I can't really see past the Cats but i def think Limerick will scrap for every ball and try as much as possible to play a high tempo game for the full 70mins so hopefully its closer than most expect
Yup that's were they came from! ;)
-You would need something to look forward to organising that! :-\
It will be over in 10 minutes. Rough tactics won't scare Kilkenny. King Henry and Brennan a goal each game over before Limerick start. Its the goals that will win. The Cats can get them; Limerick won't
(http://www.mcaviney.com/i/spacer.gif)
of course theres an all ireland hurling final u idot
After the whinging in the semi final about the intensity of Limericks tackling and whether it was illegal or not, the ref will be watching like a hawk but with Kilkenny being accused of head high tackling by Cork a few years back neither team are angels in this respect. After all the chest puffing is over I'd expect Kilkenny to be more efficient in front of goals that their Limerick counterparts. For Limerick to have a chance they need to still be close to Kilkenny in the last 10 minutes and maintain the intensity, something Galway failed to do and the cats pulled away.
I can't see either Shaughs of Begley getting the same leeway by the Kilkenny backs. Noel Hickey won't be putting his had up along with Begley, he'll be batting the ball and Begleys hand or both when the need arises and allow either his keeper or two corner backs to tidy up.
What Donie Ryan will turn up? The deadly accurate one against Waterford or the normally very wasteful one who has a knack of making the wrong decision more often than not? For the good of the game on sunday you'd hope his form against Waterford will carry through.
My head says it'll be another 'bale on the trailer' for Kilkenny but you'd hope that Limerick win to provide a much needed boost to hurling in the rugby stronghold of Limerick city.
I expect Limerick to hold their own in the first half but they'll be working harder than Kilkenny for the scores. In the second half it will just drift away from them as the Cats get 2 score for every one of they get. I hate to say it but the Cats should win by 10-12 points. Limerick will need to mind their discipline. They can't afford to go a man down under any circumstances.
There's no such thing as a sure thing in hurling but this is as close as it gets.
KK are worthy favourites but the slight suspicion remains that they aren't quite as good as people think; JJ isn't having a vintage year, maybe doubts about the goalkeeper (who will it be?) and CHB, Cha will need to be kept quiet in midfield and, as I've said here before, their forwards aren't always hectic. Henry did little against Galway, ditto Fogarty, Comerford works hard but won't kill you with scores, Fast Eddie doesn't always produce either - see last year's final - Richie Power coming off the bench is a threat though. If KK win, Tommy Walsh Hurler of the year (and maybe anyway), if Limerick win it could be Shaughs.
It's a lot of ifs and buts for Limerick but I haven't heard a word about the hype down there which is a good sign. I'll buck the trend and go for them by 2.
lads the subject of the thread seems very apt, seemingly there isnt much build-up in the counties either.
did ya hear charlie carter on the road to croker?
BTW, when was the last time, if ever, 6 different counties contested the Minor, U-21 and Senior c'ship finals?
okay finishing up at work for the week so i'll throw my prediction in for what its worth
Kilkenny to win easy
Kilkenny 2:18
Limerick 1:12
Quote from: INDIANA on August 29, 2007, 10:42:22 AM
By the way...I think the fact the Board has been split up has actually hurt hurling discussion rather than improved it! - it now has less 'drop ins'!
there was zero discussion on hurling before the split- at least there is some now. Anyway there isn't much discussion on football these days just the banal rubbish about Dublin people in general from bitter Laois people or certain nordies who have a particular grudge.
On the final itself i hope Kilkenny win. I think they are a hurling team- i think Limerick aren't. Limerick will hit anything that moves for the first 20 mins- if KK survive that onsault i can't see limerick putting up the requisite score required to win. They certainly won't score 5 goals on the kk defence and i can't see them hitting the 18-19 points needed to win. The massed defence won't work either for Limerick as Cha and these lads can score from 80 yards offeither hand. Kk are going very well in training according to observers and I'd be surprised if they don't win by 10 points.
For me there simply is a gulf in class - it's a lot easier in football for a mediocre team to beta a good team- doesn't happen in hurling except on very rare occasions and i don't see this as one of them.
From what i can make out your the only/most bitter poster and you certainly hold a grudge
I can't see Limerick doing it. They have a few hedge cutters, briar hook wielders and shovel swingers, but their guts and determination is fantastic.
However they'd need 3 or 4 goals to beat Kilkenny.
The last time Kilkenny conceded a load of goals was in 2005 vs Galway.
Significantly Noel Hickey wasn't playing that day.
Goals wouldn't have kept going in that day without Hickey beheading someone...or at least killing them!
When Hickey was having injury problems, I thought Limerick had a glimmer, now I just can't see it happening.
I'd expect Limerick to put it up to Kilkenny and not wilt at least. The can either get a blistering start and try and sustain or else try and stick with Kilkenny and hope for a second half lull.
Limerick will win this. Kilkenny have floated into the final unchallenged. Limerick are the Tyrone of '05, battle-hardened and playing with 'gay abandon'. As you can tell I'm a hurling expert.
Limerick 2-18
Kilkenny 2-16
By the way - stop moaning about the lack of chat on here leading up to the game.....make it instead.
Although there has to be question marks over the Kilkenny team e.g their easy path to the final, the center back spot, and the form of certain players I think this Limerick team are one of the poorest squads to make a final in a long time. I predicted an easy win for Waterford in the semi and got it spectacularly wrong but Waterford had 17 wides to Limericks 8 and they got 5 goals, it was a day all went right for them Sunday will be different.
I can see Limerick winning it, if they can bring the same level of intensity that that had against Waterford they are in with a great chance, and as me mammy is from Limerick I will be roaring them on, and the bookies odds are very tempting so a wad of cash will be heading onto Limerick from KM, I reckon JP McManus will have a sizable sum on his county to win.
Kilkenny have a great team and have been there and know how to win on the big day but is there a chance they might be a bit complacent playing Limerick and not either Cork or Waterford. If Sheflin or his coherts in the forwards get motoring they will put in a score but its up to Limerick to tear into them from the start and pull timber on anything that moves, man and ball, and if they can get some early scores up they could rattle the Cats. It could make for a hard physical battle and the referee will need to be on his guard from the off.
Looking forward to it, c'mon the Treaty men
Kilkenny team was named last night anyone got it?
Kilkenny - PJ Ryan; M Kavanagh, N Hickey, J Tyrrell; T Walsh, B Hogan, JJ Delaney; D Lyng, J Fitzpatrick; E Brennan, H Shefflin, E Larkin; W O'Dwyer, M Comerford, A Fogarty.
I'm 100% behind Limerick in this one but I'll keep my money in my pocket. They have a chance but it's a slim one. Good luck to them anyway. I'd say most of the country will be behind them as underdogs.
Quote from: Bacon on August 29, 2007, 06:36:59 AM
He has a point 5times. Last year there was a thread running to 3 or 4 pages on the hurling final. This year nil. It's getting more like a Discussion Board for very young football fans.
Anyway Limerick are unchanged. When to the Cats name their team. No way I can see Limerick winning this. I expect it to be close for an hour and Kilkenny to pull away at the end. Just like they've done all year.
its true, i think it was wrong to seperate the hurling board. i wouldn't follow the hurling like the football but last year i read all the threads, this year till now didn't go look for them. there was definately a need to seperate the local gaa but not the hurling. can we go back?
In fairness I think one of the reasons that there isn't much talk about this AI is that there isn't too much to get excited about. If you'er not from the competing counties then it's a bit hard to get going about the match. I think everybody agrees that Kilkenny will win it therefore there is little room for debate or in-dept analysis of where the game will be won or lost. Will shout for Limerick though.
Hope Limerick win,I have two brother in laws from Kilkenny and they are hard to listen too when it comes to Kilkenny hurling
Would really like to see Limerick win it, can only see Kilkenny winning it though. Best of luck to Limerick anyway.
whats up with rte? up for the match is not on till 10.40, why do the gaa let them away with that shit? it all ireland hurling final weekend and 10.40 is the best they can do ffs...
Chorus:
Limerick you're a lady
Your Shannon waters tears of joy that flow
The beauty that surrounds you
I'll take it with me love where e'er I go.
While waking in the arms of distant waters
A new day finds me far away from home
And Limerick you're my lady
The one true love that I have ever known.
As children you and I spent endless days of fun
In winter's snow or summer's golden sun
We fished in silver streams, the fabric of my dreams
Was fashioned by your loveliness and so I have to say.
Chorus:
Limerick you're a lady
Your Shannon waters tears of joy that flow
The beauty that surrounds you
I'll take it with me love where e'er I go.
While waking in the arms of distant waters
A new day finds me far away from home
And Limerick you're my lady
The one true love that I have ever known.
The difference time has made, for travellers on their way
Seeking out the beauty of my land
At shrines the children play, and bells ring out to say
Thank God we're living just to feel the freedom of each day.
Chorus:
Limerick you're a lady
Your Shannon waters tears of joy that flow
The beauty that surrounds you
I'll take it with me love where e'er I go.
While waking in the arms of distant waters
A new day finds me far away from home
And Limerick you're my lady
The one true love that I have ever known.
While waking in the arms of distant waters
A new day finds me far away from home
And Limerick you're my lady
The one true love that I have ever known.
The one true love that I have ever known...
Luimnigh Abú
Go on go on go on !!
Another handy All Ireland for Kilkenny...
Poor match, was hoping Limerick would win. Knew that wouldnt happen though. Even with the ref so against Kilkenny they still won easily.
Great scenes there, with McGarry and the son. Great to see them up there, its been such a hard time for them. Congrats to Kilkenny and all involved with the team.
panned out as expected. Limerick just way out of their depth-finally putting the 'quality' of the munster hurling championship this season debate to bed this year. Even without shefflin and hickey they couldn't get close. Everything was setup for them- kk were below par -the ref was a disgrace- two best players went off injured- just hadn't the hurlers. Thought tactically they just seemed to have one tactic and never used their best forward or made any attempt to get him into the game. A lot of aimless high ball directed harmlessly wide.
This is the best hurling team of all time- and the frightening prospect is that there is still more to come. Have to be honest how did Kirwan get to ref at this level. Thought he was awful.
QuoteEven with the ref so against Kilkenny they still won easily.
Thought the ref was a disgrace, have never seen a so blatantly biased refereeing performance in an AI. If I were a Kilkenny man I'd be livid. Little else to say about a final that was poor and the result was never in doubt.
Quote from: darbyo on September 02, 2007, 05:21:33 PM
QuoteEven with the ref so against Kilkenny they still won easily.
Thought the ref was a disgrace, have never seen a so blatantly biased refereeing performance in an AI. If I were a Kilkenny man I'd be livid. Little else to say about a final that was poor and the result was never in doubt.
I thought the same, it was as obvious as it could be. If Limerick somhow came back and ended up winning by a point I wouldnt blame Cody if her lost it with the ref.
Quote from: 5iveTimes on September 02, 2007, 05:27:23 PM
Cant comment on the ref as I lost interest in the game after 10 minutes. Ended up ;istening to the second half on the radio and Micháel O'Muircheartaigh isnt one to criticise the officals. The game was a foregone conclusion and Kilkenny played well within themselves, but can anyone challenge them next year? Can Cork come back?
Waterford and Cork are the closest to Kilkenny and are the two teams that can stop Kilkenny, and maybe Galway as well if everything is in order.
Reckon Cork are the only realistic contenders.
very poor game - but then the last 5/6 finals have been - pity waterford hadn't made it to the final, i reckon they'd have taken that kilkenny team (if sheff had still only lasted half the game).
When you look at it Galway pushed Kilkenny the hardest in championship this year, maybe Loughnane is getting something right there. With the U21's and Canning in the squad next year, they might be closest?
Hope Sheff isn't too badly hurt.
Man of the match? Tyrell, Brennan?
Quote from: INDIANA on September 02, 2007, 05:20:14 PM
panned out as expected. Limerick just way out of their depth-finally putting the 'quality' of the munster hurling championship this season debate to bed this year. Even without shefflin and hickey they couldn't get close. Everything was setup for them- kk were below par -the ref was a disgrace- two best players went off injured- just hadn't the hurlers. Thought tactically they just seemed to have one tactic and never used their best forward or made any attempt to get him into the game. A lot of aimless high ball directed harmlessly wide.
This is the best hurling team of all time- and the frightening prospect is that there is still more to come. Have to be honest how did Kirwan get to ref at this level. Thought he was awful.
i've been saying that for 3 years now. cody has some bunch there, the one highlight for me was for shefflin to get the liam mccarthy, hes up there with the best ever..
I have to agree that the final let down one of the most exciting hurling seasons in years. Waterford probably would have taken the cats but it wasn't about them today. Referee was terribly biased to Limerick. Comhghairdeas Cill Chainnigh.
As for motm, I'd nearly give it to Tommy Walshe.
Congrats to Kilkenny, they were the better team, although I would have liked to see Limerick go the whole way, well done to them for getting there!
As I expected, Limerick just didn't have the ability to come anywhere near the cats. All this shit about Waterford taking KK is pure shit!! Waterford would have lost by more than Limerick did today, purely because KK would have played in a higher gear than they did today!! All this muck about Munster hurling, It's in a bad state and getting worse - Cork gone for a few years, Waterford gone also.. Tipp are the only ones that can do anything but they are so messed up in the head!!!! currently they are arguing about who to select on this manager selection group!!
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 02, 2007, 05:47:02 PM
I have to agree that the final let down one of the most exciting hurling seasons in years. Waterford probably would have taken the cats but it wasn't about them today. Referee was terribly biased to Limerick. Comhghairdeas Cill Chainnigh.
As for motm, I'd nearly give it to Tommy Walshe.
I'd agree with Tommy Walsh as MOM, although the ref was biased to Limerick, should Eddie Brennan not have seen two yellows in the first half? He put the butt of the hurl in Lucey's face and then also hit the corner back in the face with the hurl after that!! He came in for a bit of rough treatment.
I was hoping for Limerick, but it was great to see Shefflin and young Mc Garry up there with the cup, they are a seriously good side and well done to them.
Waterford and Cork gone.....I don't think so. Cork will win at least one AI in the next 3 years and Waterford have at least another one or two years in them. Also Waterford are a much better team than Limerick and would have done much better today.
Quote from: darbyo on September 02, 2007, 06:54:07 PM
Waterford and Cork gone.....I don't think so. Cork will win at least one AI in the next 3 years and Waterford have at least another one or two years in them. Also Waterford are a much better team than Limerick and would have done much better today.
Cork are gone for a few years, could/should lose some crucial players due to retiremnet, frankly the news guys that have came in over the last two years are not up to replacing them. Waterford are just not up there! Bit like the Irish rugby team, they are either great or terrible!
Well done to Kilkenny today. Class Outfit. Sad day again for hurling, with one of the big two cruising to a 30th AI. Don't get me wrong but the hurling draw setup has amounted to farce this year and some how managed to let average teams such as Wexford and Limerick progress further than they really merited. Ironically both teams ended up making the winning of Liam easier for KK. This is no fault of Kilkenny, but they really won this years AI in second gear. As a mayo man hurling is as natural to me as Australian Rules football. They are great strides being made in the county but our County would be hammered by an average Kilkenny intermediate club team. Can we get rid of the title of AI as there are really only 8 teams who compete? Quarter Irelands would be a better title. Roll on 2008......wonder who will be in the final, hard one that!
Cork will win at least one AI in the next 3 years
not so sure about that. all their key men would have to remain at their peak while adding others. I think they've dropped back abit from kilkenny. I think Waterford must be kicking themselves after that today- they would have put up a better show- but their back line would never have held the kk forwards. If anything Waterford probably play too much hurling but at least we'd have had a good final- nearly fell asleep watching it unfortunately.
Lads, Cork have loads of players coming through. Again they were in the minor final and were only beaten by a very good Galway team in the u21. In addition they have a huge pool of players and many of their current squad are still young and in great condition, 3-5 players making the grade in the next 2-3 years would have them back up there. Anyway with such a small pool of competitive teams they have to have a great chance of making a final in the next 3 years.
It's over and Kilkenny have just collec ted their 30th!
Any word of Shefflin ???
Kilkenny are a fabulous side and are fully deserving of this all-ireland, however I don't think everyone should be handing them next years trophy just yet!! If Shefflin has done his cruciate that is a very serious blow as he will miss the most of 12 months at least. Also they have been on the go a serious time can they sustain the hunger. Kilkenny have never done three in a row despite producing some of the finest teams ever. It will be much more difficult for them next year without HS and with the weight of history on their shoulders. Can they win it again? Yes they are a superb side however they are not unstoppable and should not be thought of as so. For tonight however congrats to all involved with a superb team and good luck to all hurling people for next year.
Quote from: slow corner back on September 02, 2007, 08:42:11 PM
Kilkenny are a fabulous side and are fully deserving of this all-ireland, however I don't think everyone should be handing them next years trophy just yet!! If Shefflin has done his cruciate that is a very serious blow as he will miss the most of 12 months at least. Also they have been on the go a serious time can they sustain the hunger. Kilkenny have never done three in a row despite producing some of the finest teams ever. It will be much more difficult for them next year without HS and with the weight of history on their shoulders. Can they win it again? Yes they are a superb side however they are not unstoppable and should not be thought of as so. For tonight however congrats to all involved with a superb team and good luck to all hurling people for next year.
After hearing Shefflin's speech I am convinced that Waterford would also have lost to Kilkenny. As far as the Kilkenny panel were concerned this was about winning the AI for the McGarry's and that gave them the motivation to add to the undoubted talent, nous and experience that they have.
When you have a team like Kilkenny, you have to hope that they are just not as hungry as you and that they are happy with their lot and you get them on an off day, as it turns out that was never going to happen and Kilkenny were as hungry if not hungrier than Likmerick on the day. A bit like Dublin Kerry last week, Dublin should never have started messing as it got the Kerry gander up and was the motivation they needed to go the extra yard against the dubs.
Ref was awful,
As a man from Antrim I have to despair at what I saw today. I have sat in Croker and watch the Saffrons put it up TO - FOR A FEW MINUTES - teams, only to realise -YET AGAIN - that they were just not up to it. For Limerick, .. if that was the best of the rest, well God help us! I was in the Hogan and it was apparent that the Cats are on a different planet... They have taken this game to a higher sphere and nobody can match them. Kilkenny Limerick as a final... ? This would have been an appropriate 1st round clash in the NHL... no sweat nor excitement for 82,000 and an exhibition by the Cats ... Waterford ... they would have been stuffed today also..................... Kilkenny in Leinster next year.....waste of time..
Congratulations to Kilkenny on their All-Ireland, clearly the best team by some distance this summer. Shame Limerick made such a poor start on the day (and Kilkenny making a fantastic start too in fairness), they were always going to be up against it nevermind finding themselves 9 points down inside the first 10 minutes.
Forgot earlier, Ref Terrible! Talk about trying to balance out a game with one sided decisions!
Not sure that I'd agree that Waterford would also have been stuffed. Limerick are much poor than Waterford and Waterford have serious scoring potential. In saying that I agree Kilkenny would probably have beaten them.
Have to say though this was a dreadful All- Ireland but may that was just the killer hangover i was suffering .
The 2 goals early on kill any hope of an upset and KK looked to be in Training ground mode
I think Waterford would have went very close.
Re man of the match, looks like Walsh won't be getting it - between Tyrell and Brennan?
Quote from: Bogball XV on September 02, 2007, 10:54:44 PM
I think Waterford would have went very close.
Re man of the match, looks like Walsh won't be getting it - between Tyrell and Brennan?
The Waterford fullback line would of leaked even more than the Limerick one did as goals conceded through the year suggested. Finnerty for once got it right in his punditry, you try so hard to close out Shefflin and whoever that someother Kilkenny forward racks up a good score anyway.
The Limerick backroom team got it all wrong with the playing of Donie Ryan deep in midfield. He didn't hurl that much ball anyway plus any ball that went into Begley and Shaughnessy came back out with spades on it. Some days that tactic might work for you, yesterday it didn't and it was apparent from very early on that Kilkenny had the measure of it. Any ball that did break off Begley was easliy mopped up by the Kilkenny defence as they had numbers in there. Ollie Moran was trying to make a game of it on his own until Tennyson had to be brought on to replace the injured Hickey. Tennyson is a better centre back than Hogan and gave the team even greater strength.
After all the hullabaloo about Limerick's physical game it was interesting to note that it was Limerick men crumpling to the ground in the physical exchanges especially in the early exchanges.
Quote from: maxpower on August 31, 2007, 05:41:26 PM
okay finishing up at work for the week so i'll throw my prediction in for what its worth
Kilkenny to win easy
Kilkenny 2:18
Limerick 1:12
Not far away,
that was the main problem with the hurling final, as anthony daly (IMHO the best hurling pundit for sheer enthusiam) said it was all too predictable.
but nonetheless a terrific hurling championship, worthy champions and gallant losers,
Also the form of Tipp, Cork, Galway & Dublin at underage suggests the great Kilkenny will be tested plenty in the years to come.
Quote from: maxpower on September 03, 2007, 09:11:14 AM
Quote from: maxpower on August 31, 2007, 05:41:26 PM
okay finishing up at work for the week so i'll throw my prediction in for what its worth
Kilkenny to win easy
Kilkenny 2:18
Limerick 1:12
Not far away,
that was the main problem with the hurling final, as anthony daly (IMHO the best hurling pundit for sheer enthusiam) said it was all too predictable.
but nonetheless a terrific hurling championship, worthy champions and gallant losers,
Also the form of Tipp, Cork, Galway & Dublin at underage suggests the great Kilkenny will be tested plenty in the years to come.
Problem is- Tipp Galway and Cork always have strong underage teams, but Tipp and Galway never deliver on that talent! Those Tipp boys will spend the next year celebrating their win with free pints in every pub in the county! plus it's a massive step up from being an underage star to a senior star. Never judge KK on their underage talent, I've played many times against KK county underage teams and there was always just a puck of the ball between us, the club structure is fantastic in KK and guys seem to improve leaps and bounds in their early twenties - while the rest of us are out boozing and picking up women. I honestly can't see their dominance being broken.
Starting to think like a winner would be a help, Fergal, instead of adapting a defeatist attitude. Don't be afraid until you're made afraid.
For the rest of the hurling counties in the wake of yesterday, next year starts today.
Quote from: mouview on September 03, 2007, 11:31:19 AM
Starting to think like a winner would be a help, Fergal, instead of adapting a defeatist attitude. Don't be afraid until you're made afraid.
For the rest of the hurling counties in the wake of yesterday, next year starts today.
More than just that I'm afraid, every county needs to get their structures right! Do you honestly believe Limerick went out expecting to lose? KK are light years ahead of everybody when it comes to club structures. It's not about getting the best 20 guys in the county and giving them the best coaching etc! Wexford train as hard and do as much gym work as KK like evry other county but KK has such a competitive club championship that these guys are use to developing their skills in a hard hitting and full blooded games, in most other counties counties the county players have time and space on the ball in the club championship.
Not as much in Galway, in fairness.
Bennis: Cats 'on the edge'
By Diarmuid O'Flynn
LIMERICK manager Richie Bennis yesterday claimed All-Ireland champions Kilkenny are a team "living on the edge" in terms of discipline.
Stressing his comments were not sour grapes after Sunday's final defeat, Bennis said that Brian Cody's side are 'a borderline team' in terms of physicality and revealed two of his players received nasty injuries in off the ball incidents.
Bennis's views to the Irish Examiner were delivered amid a war of words between Cody and Galway boss Ger Loughnane, who was highly critical of the Kilkenny style of play on the eve of the decider.
Said Bennis of Sunday's All-Ireland final loss: "We weren't surprised by the intensity of Kilkenny in the first 10 minutes. We had prepared the lads for that. We know the road Kilkenny have taken for the past two or three years. They're a borderline team, and I stress that – a borderline team. I admire them for that, I aspire to that.
"I would hope to get Limerick hurling to that level of intensity and physicality. But definitely, Kilkenny are living on the edge.
He continued: "Stephen Lucey got six stitches in his face from a jab with the handle of the hurley early on in the game and young Seamus Hickey has bruised ribs from another jab of a hurley. Little things like that went unseen and unpunished by the referee.
"While all that was going on then, Brian Geary got a yellow card, for what? A belt of a shoulder? And that affected his play afterwards, he couldn't be as aggressive. Mark Foley had a free awarded against him for pulling on the ball on the ground for the first Kilkenny point which was a harsh decision.
"But then Kilkenny also seem to get the benefit of the doubt from the referee. And this is not sour grapes — Kilkenny were by far the better team in Croke Park, there is no doubt whatever about that."
Bennis believes that teams must copy Kilkenny — if they are to beat them.
"You must go down the road they're on, develop their tactics, meet like with like, and that's the only way you'll beat them.
"They have the talent, always have, but they also have that edge, they live right on that edge and have it perfected. They're a thoroughly professional outfit, and I admire Brian Cody for that.
"He was extremely gracious in our dressing-room afterwards, a thorough gentleman, and I was very well received in theirs as well, and that's the way it should be.
"I'll make one statement now though: when we meet Kilkenny again, with the help of God, it will be a different Limerick team."
While Bennis had nothing but praise for Cody and his team, he was disappointed with much of the coverage of his own team's efforts.
Trailing by nine points after 10 minutes, he admitted his team was caught napping, almost literally, still in awe of the fantastic reception they had received from their massed supporters.
Thereafter, however, he felt they had coped well.
"Who are these people to castigate Limerick?" he asked. "We outscored Kilkenny for the last 60 minutes of the All-Ireland final by two points, how can we not have the hurlers?
"All these experts will say this morning, they were right, but it's easy to be right when you go for the favourites. Kilkenny had a tactic and because they got that great start, it worked for them, they were able to stay with it for the whole game.
"It was like us against Waterford, we got the good start, and we were able to stick to our tactics then. When you go behind as badly as we did, so early on, you have to change the whole situation, you're the one under pressure. But we went on to outscore them then for the last 60 minutes, by two points, missed several scoreable chances, but that's no consolation now. If Shaughs hadn't lost his hurley at a critical time in the second half, he's definitely have got a goal, and a goal at that stage would really have put us back in it. There's more in this team, don't you worry about that.
He added: There's no talk of retirements, and why should there be? Mark Foley is the oldest on the team, why should he retire? Because he's in his 30's? That shouldn't enter the equation. He's a thorough sportsman, he's still a brilliant hurler, was outstanding Sunday – why should he even think of retiring.
"Ollie Moran is the same. He is a man who was often castigated at the start of the year, as he tried to settle into centre-forward. Now, he should be guaranteed an All-Star. We already have a good panel, we have a lot of lads who got a taste of the action Sunday, and we'll surely pick up a few more players for next year.
;'When I analyse this today, the summary is that we had a good year without achieving anything of note, no trophies, but we brought Limerick hurling forward, which was the primary aim at the beginning of the year.
''We'll give it another 12 months now, and hopefully we'll bring them that one step further."
He never said anything after his Limerick side assaulted Waterford!
Another exhibition in the 1st half for the Cats & they found a score when they needed it in the second half.
It's hard not to think of big Dan providing a greater goal threat than the Limerick Full Forward on Sunday. I thought he was a little slow & akward, & failed to provide a decent foil for 'Shocks'.
In saying that, I reckon Kilkenny would still have found the scores when they needed them...a true class team - their half back line is imense!
Best on the day for Limerick was their number 7 I thought. Probably the only Limerick player that won his personal duel IMO.
The Limerick fans made it a very special occasion in Dublin this week end. They were first class!
Congrats to Kilkenny on another All Ireland, pains me to say as a Cork fan but it was good to see a hurler like Shefflin get his chance to captain his county to All Ireland glory - a great hurler and hope he recovers fully from what could potentially be a serious injury.
Thought the game ran very much to plan and as I said last week it was like 2002 all over again when Clare "ambushed" Waterford in the semis and then Kilkenny beat them with ease in the final. Without doubt I think that Waterford or indeed Cork would have really put it up to Kilkenny yesterday and would have been far better equipped to capitalise on the loss of Hickey and Shefflin. Hard to see big Dan not getting at least one goal against the Cats if he had have been playing yesterday.
Fergal as usual you are over hyping what is undoubtedly a great Kilkenny team - moust be your inferiority complex any wonder you can't get within 10 pts of them! Don't get me wrong it will take a serious effort from anyone to beat Kilkenny next year but I think that Cork, Waterford and Galway are all capable of doing it on their day while if Tipp get the right structure in place they will be a match for anyone.
Expect a big last hurrah from Cork with Paudie O'sullivan coming through (recovered from injury), Eoghan Cadogen and Pat Horgan along with a full fit Niall Mc Carthy and a team of experienced fine hurlers goign all out to deny Kilkenny the 3-in a row the same way the Cats did to them. Galway coming into the year probably on the back of another U21 success (think they will beat the Dubs but hope I'm wrong) and with Joe Canning back on board will also be a serious threat - expect fireworks after Ger Lough's comments too!
As I said congrats to the Cats - great speech by Shefflin too.
Quote from: Punxsutawney Fergal on September 03, 2007, 11:20:54 AM
Quote from: maxpower on September 03, 2007, 09:11:14 AM
Quote from: maxpower on August 31, 2007, 05:41:26 PM
okay finishing up at work for the week so i'll throw my prediction in for what its worth
Kilkenny to win easy
Kilkenny 2:18
Limerick 1:12
Not far away,
that was the main problem with the hurling final, as anthony daly (IMHO the best hurling pundit for sheer enthusiam) said it was all too predictable.
but nonetheless a terrific hurling championship, worthy champions and gallant losers,
Also the form of Tipp, Cork, Galway & Dublin at underage suggests the great Kilkenny will be tested plenty in the years to come.
Problem is- Tipp Galway and Cork always have strong underage teams, but Tipp and Galway never deliver on that talent! Those Tipp boys will spend the next year celebrating their win with free pints in every pub in the county! plus it's a massive step up from being an underage star to a senior star. Never judge KK on their underage talent, I've played many times against KK county underage teams and there was always just a puck of the ball between us, the club structure is fantastic in KK and guys seem to improve leaps and bounds in their early twenties - while the rest of us are out boozing and picking up women. I honestly can't see their dominance being broken.
There must be a lot of chicas hanging about waiting for bulls in Kilkenny................Langtons it is so !!
undoubtedly a great Kilkenny team - moust be your inferiority complex any wonder you can't get within 10 pts of them! Don't get me wrong it will take a serious effort from anyone to beat Kilkenny next year but I think that Cork, Waterford and Galway are all capable of doing it on their day while if Tipp get the right structure in place they will be a match for anyone.
Cork - maybe in 2-3 years-until then i can't quite see it.
Waterford- depends- could be too late -don't have huge squad depth to cope with injuries
Galway- have flattered to deceive since 1988 considering their underage success again not a team i'd ever back against a Kilkenny team trianed by Cody- besides i don't think they quite have it.
Tipp=- have been saying that since 1991- the correct structure they need in place - is not serving any underage winning player any booze until they are 21. they've produced outstanding underage teams for years but the fall-off is huge due to the excesses after underage success .
Quote from: INDIANA on September 04, 2007, 10:13:22 PM
Galway- have flattered to deceive since 1988 considering their underage success again not a team i'd ever back against a Kilkenny team trianed by Cody- besides i don't think they quite have it.
Galways main issue as far as I'm concerned is lack of decent games , coming in in mid July does them no favors
Quote from: Pull Hard Hes No Relation on September 04, 2007, 12:22:12 PM
Thought the game ran very much to plan and as I said last week it was like 2002 all over again when Clare "ambushed" Waterford in the semis and then Kilkenny beat them with ease in the final. Without doubt I think that Waterford or indeed Cork would have really put it up to Kilkenny yesterday and would have been far better equipped to capitalise on the loss of Hickey and Shefflin. Hard to see big Dan not getting at least one goal against the Cats if he had have been playing yesterday.
I felt it had the makings of another 2002 as well, though didn't want to say it. From the start it looked like there was an element of 'being happy to be there' about Limerick. They didn't look bull-headed and as wound-up as I thought they would be. Small things like the lack of intensity in their warm-up, Players going out of their way to shake hand with opponents that they weren't even marking. Its a nice gesture and all but I couldn't imagine Galway or Clare lads doing it.
The platform for victory was obviously that first 10 minute spell, and it was set up by the dominance of the half-back line, in particular JJ and Tommy Walsh. From then on, as Micheal Duignan said, they did play a little within themselves, but as has also been said, they did what they needed to do. Obviously I'm delighted at the success of this Kilkenny team and the joy they bring to the people of the county. And of course theres the extra poignancy of this year's victory given recent events. And what a lovely touch to allow young Darren up to lift the cup with Henry. I know hes been a huge inspiration to the lads and has been at every game and training session. It was lovely to see him running around all the team after the game and their reaction when they saw him. It was one of those priceless moments.
This Kilkenny team, as with any team will go through a cycle. They are at the top of their powers at the moment but it won't last forever. They will have the likes of Richie Hogan knocking on the door next year and shouldn't lose anyone from the current crop. They should be as selfish as they can be and maximise what they have to the full. The next lean spell could be just around the corner and they shouldn't have to apologise for winning as much as they can with these players.
Championship formats, passages to the final, etc, are arguments for another time. For now, congrats to Kilkenny. Not a perfect team by any means, but I reckon they're the best team of my lifetime in so many ways, including those of 92,93 and my absolute favourite ever, those of 82,83.
In fairness Bottlethrower I think this current Kilkenny team far surpasses those of 92/93 and 82/83 in terms of their longevity at the "top" played in every All Ireland bar two since 99. While I have been one of their biggest "critics" in terms of the advanatge I think the current format gives them there is no denying the quality of this team.
I remember the 82/83 finals myself, was there in the stand as a "young fella" wishing for JBM to dot he business for the Rebels but Kilkenny denied them on both occasions. Some great hurlers in that side like the Henderson's, Billy Fitzpatrick etc but don't think they had the same level of overall class throughout the field as this current team. While the backs in 82/83 were big strong hard men, the current crop of defenders can mix it with the best of them but also hurl.
Comparing teams from different generations will always be difficult due to the changes in the game over that same peiord but I geneuinely beleive that the current Kilkenny, Cork and Waterford teams are probably the best to represent their counties in the past 30 years at least.
Quote from: Pull Hard Hes No Relation on September 05, 2007, 10:35:25 AM
Comparing teams from different generations will always be difficult due to the changes in the game over that same peiord but I geneuinely beleive that the current Kilkenny, Cork and Waterford teams are probably the best to represent their counties in the past 30 years at least.
agreed, its apples and oranges. Its probably fair to say that the game has evolved so much in the last 20 years that even the great Galway teams of the late 80s might have difficulty living with the Galway team of today. Its idle speculation though. Who knows how good some of the players of that era might be if they were playing and training in the environment that exists today. Some mightn't cut it with the higher intensity and fitness levels. Others though might be even better than some of the stars today. Who knows.
Quotealthough the ref was biased to Limerick, should Eddie Brennan not have seen two yellows in the first half? He put the butt of the hurl in Lucey's face and then also hit the corner back in the face with the hurl after that!! He came in for a bit of rough treatment.
I totally agree Louth Exile but no-one else seems to have noticed. I thought Brennan was very a lucky boy. BT or any of the other hurling aficionados - whaddya think?
Edit - I see there was a little discussion on another thread about it but would still be interested in peoples comments on the two incidents.
Would also have rated Tommy Walsh as MOTM. Some hurler.
Quote from: magpie seanie on September 05, 2007, 03:47:39 PM
I totally agree Louth Exile but no-one else seems to have noticed. I thought Brennan was very a lucky boy. BT or any of the other hurling aficionados - whaddya think?
I didn't think anything of it at the time. It looked innocuous enough. I haven't seen any footage of it on TV either so can't comment on that. Brennan is far from a dirty player though, so I'd seriously doubt there was any intent in anything he did.
I would agree than Brennan isn't a dirty player generally and indeed doesn't have a rep but he should have walked on Sun. First instance was clear cut on the telly and deserved at least a yellow. Second instance not as apparent but if u look at the replay from behind and after Hickey hits the ground you see Brennan hurl bobbing up and down as he has it gripped at the boss end, only one reason for this IMO, to butt end Hickey. Doubt he'd be aiming to do serious facial damage though. Another incident of note that hasn't been discussed here is after Hickey pulled up with his hamstring. The camera pans back to the square and Fitzgerald can be seen as if he's reacting to something Hickey done and holding his mouth. My opinion for what it's worth is that he knew his day was over and tried to rattle the nearest Limerick man, same as Dara O'Se the week before. Not exactly sporting IF that's what transpired.
If you look closely enough as Hickey was running after Mike Fitz and pulled up with his hamstring, Fitz collected the ball and turned into Hickey, Hickey then took a one handed swipe at him with the hurley and must of caught him about the chin probably as he knew that if Fitz got passed him there was a goal chance on. Better to give away the free than to let that happen, eh!!
Yeah Hickey definitely struck Fitzgerald with the hurl alright one handed as he thought he was about to round him and head for goal. Strictly speaking it was striking with the hurl and I was amazed the ref didn't see it.
To be honest I thought the Hickey pull was worse than anything that Brennan did and would be surprised at the allegation of Brennan "butting" through the face guard on purpose. Never heard that sort of allegation against the Cats before and after the Shefflin issue V Clare a couple of years ago were he nearly lost an eye would be surprised if they were at it.