At last, the dream comes true and a six counties born player appears in an FAI Senior team, and even sets up a goal! ;D
A great morale boosting performance as well, with the real top Irish striker (who has played for top clubs like Inter and Spurs, not failed at Preston and Leeds ;D) showing that he is in fine form and what a way for young Shane Long to make his mark.
I have a feeling its gonna be a great Autumn, with Ireland hosting Germany in Croker and still very much in contention, and the six counties going bellyup in Spain, Sweden, Latvia and Iceland. Bring it on! ;D
good win for roi last night didnt see any of the game but it will definately raise spirits ahead of these 2 vital qualifiers against slovakia and czech republic
it was a good win for Ireland last night but denmark must be complete rubbish.
On paper that was a poor Irish side. It was great to see so many young , fast and eager players in the second half, and as john giles says, its great for the future for the team.
with so many big name players on the denmark side though , they really seem to be a nation of chokers.
will never forget that world cup where they were playing imo the best football of the tournament , and then went on to lose 5-1 to spain !
I don't know. Hopefully the Danes will be stung by last night's rout and be all fired up for their trip to Windsor Park. They will not want to be turned over by the inferior of the two Irish sides.Also didn't they draw 3-3 with Sweden or something?
Anyone else remember the cracking 3-3 draw between the Danes and Ireland in 1978 in Denmark in the opening match of the 1980 Euro Championship 2008 qualifiers, which was played strangely before the start of the 1978 World Cup Finals? Nostalgia
Tony, are you actually a Republic of Ireland fan or just an "anti-Northern Ireland" fan?
Just that you can even refer to a good result for the RoI without referring to NI...
MW I'm an Ireland fan, supporting the Irish team which draws support and players from all parts of the island.
Tony could be very right in his assertions. Now that Gibson had set the precedent I can't see too many young players from the nationalist community declaring for the north when they have the option of a more palatable Irish team (i.e. anthems, flags and if we're honest better calibre of players).
remains to be seen donagh, chris baird was asked recently before he started to play for us, and he refused.
other players have done similar before, but none have been good enough to make it (McStay for example, OConnor could be the next if he remains fit however)
I don't know to much about the soccer setup here but I from what I can see now the only thing the IFA have going for them is the relationships they build with the players at underage level i.e. that might foster a bit of loyalty. I'm surprised there hasn't been more of a reaction in the north about Gibson as apart from the above I really can't see any reason why anyone would declare for the north now. IMO the IFA had better get the anthem and flags thing sorted out asap and 'Football For All' would need to concentrate more on getting nationalists involved.
Baird is a catholic - from rasharkin- for what it matters
Decent hurler too by all accounts.
The stand was completely empty as it is fecked - health and safety. The railway stand is awful anyway - doesnt hold that many, has pillars blocking the view etc.
Donagh, FFA is involved in more than just what occurs at the ground. There is work, such as the recent night league in andytown, that is down amongst all the communities in NI (chinese community, refugees etc)
The area of the ground that was capable of holding spectators was sold out.
There where no tickets remaining - it was a sell out.
Im sure you understand that but are just twisting ;)
The really sensible option would in all seriousness be for both teams and associations to amalgamate. I read in the Sunday Times a few weeks ago that the IFA and FAI were linking up to jointly bid to host the Euro U21 Finals in 2011.FFS if they can do this why can't they do it permanently instead of the current status quo where essentailly you have one Irish team for unionists and another for nationalists.
I defy anyone from OWC in all seriousness to forward one sensible or logical football argument for a single team and single domestic league on the island of Ireland. After all it works in Rugby and has provided an International team that can seriously challenge for the World Cup and which enjoys the support of everyone on this island
Quote from: 5iveTimes on August 23, 2007, 12:37:56 PM
Is Baird a Catholic?
Yes, for what that matters.
Quote
Good wins for both Irish teams last night, though how anyone can claim a game is sold out when stands are completely empty is beyond me? Any team can half fill a small semi derilict ground ;)
The Railway Stand (which is tiny) is closed for health & safety reasons. All tickets are sold out and the stand could be filled many times over with the current unmet demand for tickets.
Quote from: 5iveTimes on August 23, 2007, 12:44:01 PM
So part of the ground was sold out then, contrary to what some posters have claimed in another thread ;)
No, the entirety of the tickets were sold out, despite you repeatedly trying to claim there was a lack of demand for tickets. In fact demand significantly exceeds supply - even for a match against little Lichtenstein.
Quote from: T Fearon on August 23, 2007, 12:22:03 PM
MW I'm an Ireland fan, supporting the Irish team which draws support and players from all parts of the island.
Yet you can't comment on a good result for the RoI without referring to NI, and you can't even praise a RoI striker without having a dig at a NI striker.
Odd.
Quote from: T Fearon on August 23, 2007, 12:51:53 PM
The really sensible option would in all seriousness be for both teams and associations to amalgamate. I read in the Sunday Times a few weeks ago that the IFA and FAI were linking up to jointly bid to host the Euro U21 Finals in 2011.FFS if they can do this why can't they do it permanently instead of the current status quo where essentailly you have one Irish team for unionists and another for nationalists.
I defy anyone from OWC in all seriousness to forward one sensible or logical football argument for a single team and single domestic league on the island of Ireland. After all it works in Rugby and has provided an International team that can seriously challenge for the World Cup and which enjoys the support of everyone on this island
You've changed your tune.
Previously you've been very clear you didn't want an amalgamation of the two sides - you wanted the FAI to select players for the current RoI team from anywhere on the island, and the NI team to remain in being.
What's the matter, your long-awaited moment of Darron Gibson playing for the RoI turn out to be an anti-climax?
MW I have made no secret of my desire for one single team in Ireland but after 75 years of IFA obstinance in this regard I believe all players born here should have the option to play for whichever Irish side they choose, and I mean all players regardless of background. In otherwords if David Healy decides to declare for the FAI team he should be able to do so.
I repeat there is not one logical footballing reason for maintaining two separate Football Associations and international teams on this island. The only reasons are political .
countries etc are all political entities. All Football associations are based on political institutions.
If you where really concerned about your team youd probably have started a discussion about the match rather than try to get a fight going. As it is your more concerned with slagging NI than with the ROI
It was in direcr retaliation for Tonyisatit's first strike on another thread. I am now operating a no first strike policy ;D
Its a Hyde and Hyde phenonomen.
Quote from: T Fearon on August 23, 2007, 01:15:33 PM
MW I have made no secret of my desire for one single team in Ireland but after 75 years of IFA obstinance in this regard I believe all players born here should have the option to play for whichever Irish side they choose, and I mean all players regardless of background. In otherwords if David Healy decides to declare for the FAI team he should be able to do so.
You've actually said in plain and simple terms that you didn't want a merged team. You have, as I said, changed your tune.
Quote
I repeat there is not one logical footballing reason for maintaining two separate Football Associations and international teams on this island. The only reasons are political .
"Political". Like Serbia and Montenegro now having seperate teams. Like the joint Czech-Slovak team splitting into the Czech Republic and Slovakia teams in the early 90s. Like the USSR/CIS team breaking up into successor teams a couple of years before that. Etc etc.
You really don't get that?
With a few more of the Norn Irish players now plying their trade in the Premiership...an All-Ireland team would be a little more difficult to choose?
I'll have a go..
Given
Finnan Dunne Hughes O'Shea
Gillespie Davis S. Reid Duff
Keane Healy
Subs: Taylor, McShane, Baird, Evans, A. Reid, Hunt, Doyle
That's being as fair as I can to the North!
Quote from: MW on August 23, 2007, 01:38:03 PM
"Political". Like Serbia and Montenegro now having seperate teams. Like the joint Czech-Slovak team splitting into the Czech Republic and Slovakia teams in the early 90s. Like the USSR/CIS team breaking up into successor teams a couple of years before that. Etc etc.
To be fair the original reason for the split wasn't the partition of the island of Ireland, but appears to be the fact the a Belfast based IFA chose to ignore the game in the "Freestate". If partition was the only rationale for the split then why wouldn't rugby have followed suit?
Right now I think the split is more about blazers, junkits and beanos for the lads, and that goes for both associations.
Quote from: Goats Do Shave on August 23, 2007, 01:50:01 PM
With a few more of the Norn Irish players now plying their trade in the Premiership...an All-Ireland team would be a little more difficult to choose?
I'll have a go..
Given
Finnan Dunne Hughes O'Shea
Gillespie Davis S. Reid Duff
Keane Healy
Subs: Taylor, McShane, Baird, Evans, A. Reid, Hunt, Doyle
That's being as fair as I can to the North!
No McGeady! anti-SPL bias! ;)
Stephen Reid ??? when he does manage to string together more than 43 mins on a field we might be able to rate him , from what I've seen any time he's played he's only average and a poor average at that.
Quote from: Mentalman on August 23, 2007, 01:53:45 PM
Quote from: MW on August 23, 2007, 01:38:03 PM
"Political". Like Serbia and Montenegro now having seperate teams. Like the joint Czech-Slovak team splitting into the Czech Republic and Slovakia teams in the early 90s. Like the USSR/CIS team breaking up into successor teams a couple of years before that. Etc etc.
To be fair the original reason for the split wasn't the partition of the island of Ireland, but appears to be the fact the a Belfast based IFA chose to ignore the game in the "Freestate". If partition was the only rationale for the split then why wouldn't rugby have followed suit?
I wasn't saying partition was the reason for the split. I was addressing Tony's claim that the only reason to keep NI and the RoI as seperate sides is "political" as if it isn't the very raison d'etre of international football teams to respresent geo-political entities.
By the way that's not quite a balanced view you have of the FAI breakaway in terms of its reasons. And I would say the political background to the whole thing did play a big role. Without partition, there would not have been a long-lasting breakaway, and the IFA and FAI would never have coalesced in their particular territories.
By the way on your point about rugby - this doesn't make sense. Different sports have different set-ups. Cricket has a West Indies team, for example - you couldn't say "If the reasons for seperate Jamaican, Trinidadian, etc teams is that they are seperate states, why wouldn't cricket have followed suit?". International football contains no teams whose territory actually crosses and international boundary.
Quote
Right now I think the split is more about blazers, junkits and beanos for the lads, and that goes for both associations.
This hoary old chestnut pisses me off. To paraphrase Bill Clinton, "It's the fans, stupid". leaving aside the fact that the Republic of Ireland and Northern ireland are seperated by an international boundary, Northern ireland's supporters do not want to have their team abolished. An entirely fair stance.
We're talking about Stehphen Reid though. Fella that plays for Blackburn...he's out injured!
You might as well offer a replacement subbie....
I don't rate Carsley (Or Clingham for that matter!)
Liam Millar ??? Nah don't think so
Jonathan Douglas ;D ;D ;D don't think so .
Andy reid on his display last night would be worth looking at.
Its only when you start thinking that you realise that the real Ireland team ;) are spread fairly thin at central midfield.
Quote
By the way that's not quite a balanced view you have of the FAI breakaway in terms of its reasons. And I would say the political background to the whole thing did play a big role. Without partition, there would not have been a long-lasting breakaway, and the IFA and FAI would never have coalesced in their particular territories.
It played a role, but wasn't the major reason for the initial split. An examination of the circumstances of the time seem to show there was little effort by the IFA to promote the game in the 26 counties, and also more than a little favouring of clubs within the 6 counties. It's a given that the longevity of the split has been promoted by the political situation.
Quote
By the way on your point about rugby - this doesn't make sense. Different sports have different set-ups. Cricket has a West Indies team, for example - you couldn't say "If the reasons for seperate Jamaican, Trinidadian, etc teams is that they are seperate states, why wouldn't cricket have followed suit?".
We're talking about sports on the island of Ireland, whose associations existed before partition, therefore rugby is directly analagous.To nick a quote from wiki:
Quote
Following the political partition of Ireland into separate national states the Republic of Ireland (originally the Irish Free State then Éire) and Northern Ireland (a political division of the United Kingdom), the then Committee of the Irish Rugby Football Union decided that it would continue to administer its affairs on the basis of the full 32 Irish counties and the traditional four provinces of Ireland: Leinster (12 counties), Ulster (9 counties), Munster (6 counties), and Connacht (5 counties).
Quote
International football contains no teams whose territory actually crosses and international boundary.
Currently contains don't you mean? It has done, our own island being an example, or was the border not an international boundary at the time as it was a Free State not a Republic?
Quote
Quote
Right now I think the split is more about blazers, junkits and beanos for the lads, and that goes for both associations.
This hoary old chestnut pisses me off. To paraphrase Bill Clinton, "It's the fans, stupid". leaving aside the fact that the Republic of Ireland and Northern ireland are seperated by an international boundary, Northern ireland's supporters do not want to have their team abolished. An entirely fair stance.
To paraphrase you then "It's one set of fans stupid" then. Even if such an amalgamation was desired from both sets of fans my point is it wouldn't happen due to the vested interests of those invoved in both associations.
Quote from: The Subbie on August 23, 2007, 02:34:59 PM
Liam Millar ??? Nah don't think so
Jonathan Douglas ;D ;D ;D don't think so .
Andy reid on his display last night would be worth looking at.
Its only when you start thinking that you realise that the real Ireland team ;) are spread fairly thin at central midfield.
I'd have Stephen Ireland ahead of those clowns!
Sorry, the only 6 counties player who would sniff a place in an All Ireland team is Healy at the moment, though I still think Kevin Doyle is a better player and more proven at Premiership level
I'd have Ireland and Mc Geady ahead of Davis (overrated and seen through by O'Neill at Villa) and Gillespie (over the hill).
Also I don't rate Hughes either (neither did Souness and O'Neill) and would have Paul Mc Shane in ahead of him
QuoteAlso I don't rate Hughes either (neither did Souness and O'Neill) and would have Paul Mc Shane in ahead of him
Alex Ferguson would choose Jonny Evans over Paul McShane - thats why he let McShane go
I thought Evans was a full back and not a central defender?
Nevertheless I concede that he may well be a viable contender for a place.
By the way I do not understand the logic of "the abolition of the N.I soccer team". It would be an All Ireland team representing everyone, picked on merit, featuring players from everywhere on ths island. I would never view such a development as an abolition of the so called Republic of Ireland team.
Evans has covered at full back for us, but his preferred and best position is CB.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/letters/article2884200.ece
GAA still kicking with the wrong foot
* Email ArticleEmail Article
* Print VersionPrint Version
* SearchSearch
Wednesday, August 22, 2007
I was surprised by the length of time it took Tony Fearon (Write Back, August 16) to respond to the Darren Graham debate.
I was not surprised, however, by Mr Fearon's typical (political tennis) approach.
He has tried to equate the issue to Neil Lennon's international career in order to put the blame somehow back into the Northern Ireland football arena. (Not soccer - soccer is an Americanism for a British invention called football relating to a game played predominately by one's foot).
Football is a totally integrated, non-religious sport spoiled by a few thugs nobody wants to be linked to.
Until the GAA sorts this sorry mess out, it will be looked upon as the complete opposite and I'm afraid to say at this moment in time its appears to be guilty of everything football isn't.
The main difference is that the anti Neil Lennon campaign was directed off the field of play by people with no desire to see our wee country progress.
He wasn't chastised by Northern Ireland supporters at matches nor was he harrassed by other players on opposing teams - never mind his own team, unlike the Darren Graham incident.
I hope for the sake of sport in general that the GAA takes this to the roof.
The only similarity is that neither occurrence should ever happen.
Finally, the IFA has been outstanding in the 'Give sectarianism the boot' campaign and continues to be so. How dare Mr Fearon accuse Northern Ireland?
Yet again, change your record.
Dazzled, Belfast
Didnt want to start a whole new thread for this
Youd probably be better posting in one of the previous DG threads.
who the feck calls themselves "dazzled" though - has to be PTBG
Quote from: MW on August 23, 2007, 02:08:59 PM
I wasn't saying partition was the reason for the split. I was addressing Tony's claim that the only reason to keep NI and the RoI as seperate sides is "political" as if it isn't the very raison d'etre of international football teams to respresent geo-political entities
If the raison d'etre was to represent "geo-political entities" as you so marvelouslly put it then why the hell does the Northern Irish team claim to represent a society in which a sizeable minority find their team and their support deplorable?
Geo-political as defined by Wikipedia: "It examines the political, economic and strategic significance of geography, where geography is defined in terms of the location, size, function, and relationships of places and resources."
Surely the Northern Irish soccer team, rather than defining the most telling relationship of our country between nationalists and unionists, has always chosen to ignore the former?
QuoteBy the way on your point about rugby - this doesn't make sense. Different sports have different set-ups. Cricket has a West Indies team, for example - you couldn't say "If the reasons for seperate Jamaican, Trinidadian, etc teams is that they are seperate states, why wouldn't cricket have followed suit?". International football contains no teams whose territory actually crosses and international boundary.
Eh, try the United Kingdom you daft bastard. Scotland, Wales, British-Occupied Ireland and England.
QuoteThis hoary old chestnut pisses me off. To paraphrase Bill Clinton, "It's the fans, stupid". leaving aside the fact that the Republic of Ireland and Northern ireland are seperated by an international boundary, Northern ireland's supporters do not want to have their team abolished. An entirely fair stance.
Of course they don't want their sectarian soccer team abolished, where else can they openly sing about the Greysteel massacre and pass on death threats to Catholic members of their team who have sold them out by playing for the rivals of the only team in the world with a "Protestant superiority syndrome," not to mention stand up for the Ulster Volunteer Force. trick or treat indeed.
I was watching the highlights last nite and seen a supporters flag with the words EAST BELFAST emblazened on it. This truely is an all ireland team!
Quote from: Gnevin on August 23, 2007, 06:02:12 PM
I wonder why the GAA hasn't been fully "integrated" in comparison to soccer... doesn't have anything to do with the fact that it was labelled by all and sundry as a Nationalist movement from its earliest years in this aneurysm of a state that tried to protect the Protestant and Unionist traditions above the Catholic one, would it? This isn't the same GAA who named their most prestigous footballing honor after a Protestant?
Hmmm...
QuoteOf course they don't want their sectarian soccer team abolished, where else can they openly sing about the Greysteel massacre and pass on death threats to Catholic members of their team who have sold them out by playing for the rivals of the only team in the world with a "Protestant superiority syndrome," not to mention stand up for the Ulster Volunteer Force. trick or treat indeed.
another live one here....
Quote from: stiffler on August 23, 2007, 06:30:03 PM
I was watching the highlights last nite and seen a supporters flag with the words EAST BELFAST emblazened on it. This truely is an all ireland team!
And there's a lovely Donelgal banner on display at Northern Ireland home and away matches. Don't forget 1st Dublin NISC. ;D Truely the original and best Ireland team - accept no cheap immitations.
I could firmly say there is more ROI supporters in the north than Northern ireland supporters in the south. This shows that the FAI side is more akin to an all ireland team than the North's side.
P.S. wheres donelgal?
Quote from: stiffler on August 23, 2007, 06:55:21 PM
I could firmly say there is more ROI supporters in the north than Northern ireland supporters in the south. This shows that the FAI side is more akin to an all ireland team than the North's side.
P.S. wheres donelgal?
Apologies for the typo and I agree with your first statement. Your second is irrelevant, as neither side is anywhere near an all-Ireland side.
Quote from: Solomon Kane on August 23, 2007, 06:45:01 PM
Quote from: stiffler on August 23, 2007, 06:30:03 PM
I was watching the highlights last nite and seen a supporters flag with the words EAST BELFAST emblazened on it. This truely is an all ireland team!
And there's a lovely Donelgal banner on display at Northern Ireland home and away matches. Don't forget 1st Dublin NISC. ;D Truely the original and best Ireland team - accept no cheap immitations.
Sure if Donegal lads can support NI there should be no problem with Belfast or Derry lads supporting or playing for ROI. ;D
Quote from: T Fearon on August 23, 2007, 04:17:59 PM
I thought Evans was a full back and not a central defender?
Nevertheless I concede that he may well be a viable contender for a place.
Evans plays centre back at club level, whom Sanchez picked out of position at Left Back for NI (four caps unbeaten).
As a CB, he is clearly rated higher than Paul McShane, whom you champion, by both Alex Ferguson and Roy Keane. With Ferguson, the two were both youth team players at MU (McShane slightly older?). McShane wanted first team football and in the end, Ferguson let him go to WBA.
Whereas, he sent Evans to MU's feeder club, Antwerp for a season (at the same time as Darron Gibson, as it happens.)
When Keane took over at Sunderland, he signed Evans on loan as soon as he could and he was voted Sunderland's Young Player of the Year, despite only playing the second half of their (promotion-winning) season.
At the start of this season, Keane tried to sign him permanently (a fee of up to £4m was rumoured), but Ferguson again refused to let him go.
Keane then turned to Chris Baird and agreed terms with Southampton for £3m, but at the very last minute, Sanchez came in and got him, paying Southampton a small premium over Sunderland's bid.
Eventually, Keane reverted to signing McShane, whom he'd been looking at but over whom there were medical concerns, for around £1.5 million.
So although McShane looks a decent enough prospect, better qualified judges than you or me clearly rate both Evans
and Baird above McShane. Therefore, in any hypothetical all-Ireland XI, either would be more likely to play Centre Back. Alongside Aaron Hughes. ;)
QuoteSo although McShane looks a decent enough prospect, better qualified judges than you or me clearly rate both Evans and Baird above McShane. Therefore, in any hypothetical all-Ireland XI, either would be more likely to play Centre Back. Alongside Aaron Hughes.
I believe one of the main reasons McShane was let go was his size. Or lack of it for a centre half. That said he is one of those whole-hearted defenders that would run through walls for you. He's doing very well for Sunderland now by all accounts. He'll be a good solid Premiership defender but probably never at a top club.
Evans certanly looks a good prospect although a bit early to see whether he'll make it a top club like Man U or will he have to drop a bit further down the Premiership to get a game.
Baird I think is an ordinary enough player and just because Keane expressed an interest in him doesn't mean much really. Keane also bought Greg Halford who is rubbish. It's a bit fanciful to have an All-Ireland center-back combination of Baird/Evans with Hughes when Richard Dunne is comfortably the best center half from either side currently playing in the Premiership.
Quote from: nifan on August 23, 2007, 06:40:14 PM
QuoteOf course they don't want their sectarian soccer team abolished, where else can they openly sing about the Greysteel massacre and pass on death threats to Catholic members of their team who have sold them out by playing for the rivals of the only team in the world with a "Protestant superiority syndrome," not to mention stand up for the Ulster Volunteer Force. trick or treat indeed.
another live one here....
Live one, eh? YYou may think me a mad bastard, but I know plenty of solidly reasonable, and if you really care, middle class Catholics, not involved much in the GAA and ardent followers of soccer who wouldn't spit on the likes of some of your fans and if rumour stands to reason, players. And until you sort that out I hope you get pumped in every game you play.
Quote from: stibhan88 on August 23, 2007, 10:10:32 PM
Live one, eh? YYou may think me a mad bastard, but I know plenty of solidly reasonable, and if you really care, middle class Catholics, not involved much in the GAA and ardent followers of soccer who wouldn't spit on the likes of some of your fans and if rumour stands to reason, players. And until you sort that out I hope you get pumped in every game you play.
yes, i think your a mad bastard.
Openly singing about greysteel???
Supporting the UVF???
If you are talking about some of our fans being bigoted, you may have a point, but in NI id say theres bigots amongst any support base - football, gaelic, rugby, cricket etc.
what players wouldnt your middle class catholic friends spit on?
Quote from: Mentalman on August 23, 2007, 02:46:14 PM
Quote
By the way that's not quite a balanced view you have of the FAI breakaway in terms of its reasons. And I would say the political background to the whole thing did play a big role. Without partition, there would not have been a long-lasting breakaway, and the IFA and FAI would never have coalesced in their particular territories.
It played a role, but wasn't the major reason for the initial split.
It was maybe not 'the' reason but I would say it was a major factor. In no other territory that I can think of did a similar split take place between an 'old' and 'new' football association which coalesced 'unintendedly' (to coin a clumsy word) round a newly minted boundary.
QuoteAn examination of the circumstances of the time seem to show there was little effort by the IFA to promote the game in the 26 counties, and also more than a little favouring of clubs within the 6 counties. It's a given that the longevity of the split has been promoted by the political situation.
You seem to be versed only in the FAI version of the 'split' story. The IFA was desperate to remain the association for the entire island, which doesn't entirely suggest a complete neglect of the game in the South.
Quote
By the way on your point about rugby - this doesn't make sense. Different sports have different set-ups. Cricket has a West Indies team, for example - you couldn't say "If the reasons for seperate Jamaican, Trinidadian, etc teams is that they are seperate states, why wouldn't cricket have followed suit?".
We're talking about sports on the island of Ireland, whose associations existed before partition, therefore rugby is directly analagous.To nick a quote from wiki:
Quote
Following the political partition of Ireland into separate national states the Republic of Ireland (originally the Irish Free State then Éire) and Northern Ireland (a political division of the United Kingdom), the then Committee of the Irish Rugby Football Union decided that it would continue to administer its affairs on the basis of the full 32 Irish counties and the traditional four provinces of Ireland: Leinster (12 counties), Ulster (9 counties), Munster (6 counties), and Connacht (5 counties).
[/quote]
Rugby isn't analogous. It's not a 'world' sport with competitors from every country in the world. (I also think the fact the IRFU was based in Dublin whereas the IFA was based in Belfast also marks an important difference in what happened in 1921.) Different sports do their own thing. Rugby league has a Great Britain & Ireland test team. Cricket has an England & Wales team. Athletics has a Great Britain & Northern Ireland team.
Quote
Quote
International football contains no teams whose territory actually crosses and international boundary.
Currently contains don't you mean? It has done, our own island being an example, or was the border not an international boundary at the time as it was a Free State not a Republic?
I'm talking about the modern era where the game is controlled by FIFA, played in every country in the world and with organised international competitions like the World Cup. In such an era the situation back in the 1920s/30s of the IFA selecting an Ireland team and the FIAFS selecting an Irish Free State team was clearly untenable.
In the modern era, the only examples of teams being selected from a territory across an international border are the CIS in 1992 (selected because the USSR had qualified for Euro 92 before going out of existence), the RCS (Representation of the Czechs and Slovaks) in the USA 94 qualifiers (because Czechoslovakia had begun the qualifiers) and Serbia and Montenegro in last year's World Cup finals (because they had qualified as one country before splitting just before the finals). In all cases these were temporary expedients necessitated by mid-competition political changes.
QuoteTo paraphrase you then "It's one set of fans stupid" then. Even if such an amalgamation was desired from both sets of fans my point is it wouldn't happen due to the vested interests of those invoved in both associations.
Maybe. But I don't think that's the reason. I think it boils down to lack of demand on the Northern Ireland side at least. (Would RoI fans relaly be willing to give up the Tricolour and Amhran na bhFiann, BTW? Seems to be a problem for the very 'middle class' sport of rugby)
Quote from: stibhan88 on August 23, 2007, 06:27:56 PM
Quote from: MW on August 23, 2007, 02:08:59 PM
I wasn't saying partition was the reason for the split. I was addressing Tony's claim that the only reason to keep NI and the RoI as seperate sides is "political" as if it isn't the very raison d'etre of international football teams to respresent geo-political entities
If the raison d'etre was to represent "geo-political entities" as you so marvelouslly put it then why the hell does the Northern Irish team claim to represent a society in which a sizeable minority find their team and their support deplorable?
Geo-political as defined by Wikipedia: "It examines the political, economic and strategic significance of geography, where geography is defined in terms of the location, size, function, and relationships of places and resources."
Surely the Northern Irish soccer team, rather than defining the most telling relationship of our country between nationalists and unionists, has always chosen to ignore the former?
Obviously you've had some problem understanding what this actually means. The clue is in the quote from FIFA earlier in the thread. Independent sovereign states or in some cases clearly defined automous political units within those soversign states.
Quote
QuoteBy the way on your point about rugby - this doesn't make sense. Different sports have different set-ups. Cricket has a West Indies team, for example - you couldn't say "If the reasons for seperate Jamaican, Trinidadian, etc teams is that they are seperate states, why wouldn't cricket have followed suit?". International football contains no teams whose territory actually crosses and international boundary.
Eh, try the United Kingdom you daft bastard. Scotland, Wales, British-Occupied Ireland and England.
I'll humour you here ::) Tell me how any of the England, Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland teams are "teams whose territory actually crosses an international boundary".
This should be good...
Quote
QuoteThis hoary old chestnut pisses me off. To paraphrase Bill Clinton, "It's the fans, stupid". leaving aside the fact that the Republic of Ireland and Northern ireland are seperated by an international boundary, Northern ireland's supporters do not want to have their team abolished. An entirely fair stance.
Of course they don't want their sectarian soccer team abolished, where else can they openly sing about the Greysteel massacre and pass on death threats to Catholic members of their team who have sold them out by playing for the rivals of the only team in the world with a "Protestant superiority syndrome," not to mention stand up for the Ulster Volunteer Force. trick or treat indeed.
You've made it pretty clear there you're a bigoted headcase. I'm sure you'd like to make an attempt at justifying the above remarks? ::)
Quote from: MW on August 24, 2007, 09:27:58 AM
Quote from: Mentalman on August 23, 2007, 02:46:14 PM
Quote
By the way that's not quite a balanced view you have of the FAI breakaway in terms of its reasons. And I would say the political background to the whole thing did play a big role. Without partition, there would not have been a long-lasting breakaway, and the IFA and FAI would never have coalesced in their particular territories.
It played a role, but wasn't the major reason for the initial split.
It was maybe not 'the' reason but I would say it was a major factor. In no other territory that I can think of did a similar split take place between an 'old' and 'new' football association which coalesced 'unintendedly' (to coin a clumsy word) round a newly minted boundary.
QuoteAn examination of the circumstances of the time seem to show there was little effort by the IFA to promote the game in the 26 counties, and also more than a little favouring of clubs within the 6 counties. It's a given that the longevity of the split has been promoted by the political situation.
You seem to be versed only in the FAI version of the 'split' story. The IFA was desperate to remain the association for the entire island, which doesn't entirely suggest a complete neglect of the game in the South.
Quote
By the way on your point about rugby - this doesn't make sense. Different sports have different set-ups. Cricket has a West Indies team, for example - you couldn't say "If the reasons for seperate Jamaican, Trinidadian, etc teams is that they are seperate states, why wouldn't cricket have followed suit?".
We're talking about sports on the island of Ireland, whose associations existed before partition, therefore rugby is directly analagous.To nick a quote from wiki:
Quote
Following the political partition of Ireland into separate national states the Republic of Ireland (originally the Irish Free State then Éire) and Northern Ireland (a political division of the United Kingdom), the then Committee of the Irish Rugby Football Union decided that it would continue to administer its affairs on the basis of the full 32 Irish counties and the traditional four provinces of Ireland: Leinster (12 counties), Ulster (9 counties), Munster (6 counties), and Connacht (5 counties).
Rugby isn't analogous. It's not a 'world' sport with competitors from every country in the world. (I also think the fact the IRFU was based in Dublin whereas the IFA was based in Belfast also marks an important difference in what happened in 1921.) Different sports do their own thing. Rugby league has a Great Britain & Ireland test team. Cricket has an England & Wales team. Athletics has a Great Britain & Northern Ireland team.
Quote
Quote
International football contains no teams whose territory actually crosses and international boundary.
Currently contains don't you mean? It has done, our own island being an example, or was the border not an international boundary at the time as it was a Free State not a Republic?
I'm talking about the modern era where the game is controlled by FIFA, played in every country in the world and with organised international competitions like the World Cup. In such an era the situation back in the 1920s/30s of the IFA selecting an Ireland team and the FIAFS selecting an Irish Free State team was clearly untenable.
In the modern era, the only examples of teams being selected from a territory across an international border are the CIS in 1992 (selected because the USSR had qualified for Euro 92 before going out of existence), the RCS (Representation of the Czechs and Slovaks) in the USA 94 qualifiers (because Czechoslovakia had begun the qualifiers) and Serbia and Montenegro in last year's World Cup finals (because they had qualified as one country before splitting just before the finals). In all cases these were temporary expedients necessitated by mid-competition political changes.
QuoteTo paraphrase you then "It's one set of fans stupid" then. Even if such an amalgamation was desired from both sets of fans my point is it wouldn't happen due to the vested interests of those invoved in both associations.
Maybe. But I don't think that's the reason. I think it boils down to lack of demand on the Northern Ireland side at least. (Would RoI fans relaly be willing to give up the Tricolour and Amhran na bhFiann, BTW? Seems to be a problem for the very 'middle class' sport of rugby)
You think it's not analgous, I think it is, what you going to do? The sport being a "world sport" isn't that relevant to me, but it obviously matters to you a lot. My drive is at an all island context in that regard, and how other sports in existence at the time managed it. Interesting that cricket has been mentioned more than once in this thread, it again is an all-island sport which surely existed, in the federated sense, before partition? I just don't have time to research that now. I'm probably not going to give this response the time it deserves in fairness. I would say on the anthems and emblems front, and I only speak for myself, everything would be on the table. As for rugby, I think most people's issue is with "Ireland's Call", what a f**king dirge! I'd sooner the compromise of an agreement amongst the provinces as to which song to sing, be that the anthems of both territories, whatever they chose, in the interest of fairness, rather than that embarrasment of a tune. Similar with the flag, the flag of the 4 provinces would do me fine.
Quote from: MW on August 24, 2007, 09:34:44 AM
Obviously you've had some problem understanding what this actually means. The clue is in the quote from FIFA earlier in the thread. Independent sovereign states or in some cases clearly defined automous political units within those soversign states.
What about the states of America? Aren't they relatively autonomous political regions within the "sovereign states?"
QuoteI'll humour you here ::) Tell me how any of the England, Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland teams are "teams whose territory actually crosses an international boundary".
This should be good...
From the person who said, and I quote:
Quoteas if it isn't the very raison d'etre of international football teams to respresent geo-political entities.
This is pretty ridiculous. If the international boundary meant so much then there wouldn't be a Northern Ireland football team- there would be a UK football team and it would be comprised solely of players from England (and Ryan Giggs) in all likelihood. Whilst I concede that you are indeed right that the teams do not cross an international boundary, the idea that Northern Ireland and the rest have their own football team doesn't really work within this definition.
QuoteYou've made it pretty clear there you're a bigoted headcase. I'm sure you'd like to make an attempt at justifying the above remarks? ::)
At justifying what? I used to have no problem with the Northern Ireland team until a combination of the Neil Lennon affair- not just the death threats- the fact I was abused by a sizeable group of their 'fans' whilst walking home from school for being a Catholic and hearing chants like "Stand up for the UVF/Ulster Scots" as the term for them seems to be interchangable. Another little hitch was the "Milltown hatrick/David Healy" joke.
Now, I'm not saying that all Northern Ireland fans are like that- I do, in fact, know plenty people who are reasonable and decent human beings who find that kind of stuff anathema. But the fact is that your lot need to eradicate the sectarian and bigoted element within your support before you even get me to acknowledge whatever it is that your team does on the pitch.
Quote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 02:28:17 PMAt justifying what? I used to have no problem with the Northern Ireland team until a combination of the Neil Lennon affair- not just the death threats-
Sop come on you tell us what you think about the 'Neil Lennon affair'. I 'm sure we're all ears.
Quote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 02:28:17 PM
the fact I was abused by a sizeable group of their 'fans' whilst walking home from school for being a Catholic
Any details of what you were doing at Windsor Park on your way home from school?
Quote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 02:28:17 PM
and hearing chants like "Stand up for the UVF/Ulster Scots" as the term for them seems to be interchangable.
Can you tell me when you heard either of these chants?
Quote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 02:28:17 PM
Another little hitch was the "Milltown hatrick/David Healy" joke.
Sorry you'll have to humour me, I've no idea what that is supposed to mean, can you give us some more details?
Quote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 02:28:17 PM
Now, I'm not saying that all Northern Ireland fans are like that- I do, in fact, know plenty people who are reasonable and decent human beings who find that kind of stuff anathema. But the fact is that your lot need to eradicate the sectarian and bigoted element within your support before you even get me to acknowledge whatever it is that your team does on the pitch.
Is this actual sectarianism or the sort of shite that you've made up in the rest of your post?
Lads, give it a rest. I'm glad to see both sides North and South of the border doing well. I live in the North and have to say my allegiance lies with the Rep of Ireland for one reason or another but I still like to see Norn Iron do well.
Quote from: SammyG on August 24, 2007, 03:53:58 PM
Quote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 02:28:17 PMAt justifying what? I used to have no problem with the Northern Ireland team until a combination of the Neil Lennon affair- not just the death threats-
Sop come on you tell us what you think about the 'Neil Lennon affair'. I 'm sure we're all ears.
Quote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 02:28:17 PM
the fact I was abused by a sizeable group of their 'fans' whilst walking home from school for being a Catholic
Any details of what you were doing at Windsor Park on your way home from school?
Quote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 02:28:17 PM
and hearing chants like "Stand up for the UVF/Ulster Scots" as the term for them seems to be interchangable.
Can you tell me when you heard either of these chants?
Quote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 02:28:17 PM
Another little hitch was the "Milltown hatrick/David Healy" joke.
Sorry you'll have to humour me, I've no idea what that is supposed to mean, can you give us some more details?
Quote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 02:28:17 PM
Now, I'm not saying that all Northern Ireland fans are like that- I do, in fact, know plenty people who are reasonable and decent human beings who find that kind of stuff anathema. But the fact is that your lot need to eradicate the sectarian and bigoted element within your support before you even get me to acknowledge whatever it is that your team does on the pitch.
Is this actual sectarianism or the sort of shite that you've made up in the rest of your post?
David Healy joke about Milltown: "the last person to get a hattrick for Northern Ireland was Michael Stone" doing the rounds everywhere from all accounts. That I got to hear it being a Catholic tells its own story.
I wasn't at Windsor Park on my way home from school- I was walking up University Avenue on the night of the England match and a group of fans heading towards Windsor decided that it would be good form to call me a "fenian bastard" and tell me about 200 years of the Union through the modicum of song. I was less than impressed.
As for the Neil Lennon affair- why was Lennon booed for being a Celtic player? Why wasn't he begged back by the IFA and its fans after the death threats? Why did the match itself even go ahead after the death threat? In ANY other country there would have been uproar. But sure you have the best fans in the world anyway, don't you? You cannot deny that even if he was booed (in the precluding matches) by a minority of your fans the majority threw the stones of silence. God help whatever small section of the crowd cheered him on against that Norway team, and fair play to them. If your team's fans were full of them I'd happily acknowledge your efforts, but doubts remain.
Quote from: hardstation on August 24, 2007, 04:04:38 PM
I've never understood why people in the north support the republic of ireland soocer team.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/low/football/internationals/northern_ireland/2208857.stm
Quote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 04:28:34 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 24, 2007, 04:04:38 PM
I've never understood why people in the north support the republic of ireland soocer team.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/low/football/internationals/northern_ireland/2208857.stm
In fairness many folk in the north supported Ireland before this event. The success (relative) of 1988 1990 and 1994 was the biggest factor.
Quote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 04:27:47 PMDavid Healy joke about Milltown: "the last person to get a hattrick for Northern Ireland was Michael Stone" doing the rounds everywhere from all accounts. That I got to hear it being a Catholic tells its own story.
So some eejit tells you a sick joke and that means all NI fans are sectarian bigots, brilliant.
Quote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 04:27:47 PM
I wasn't at Windsor Park on my way home from school- I was walking up University Avenue on the night of the England match and a group of fans heading towards Windsor decided that it would be good form to call me a "fenian bastard" and tell me about 200 years of the Union through the modicum of song. I was less than impressed.
So you were at school at 7 o'clock in the evening?
Quote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 04:27:47 PM
As for the Neil Lennon affair- why was Lennon booed for being a Celtic player?
I've no idea you'd have to ask the couple of hundred dickheads that booed him. Why was he cheered by most of the crowd who sang One Neil Lennon throughout the match?
Quote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 04:27:47 PM
Why wasn't he begged back by the IFA and its fans after the death threats?
He was supported fuilly by the IFA and has said so many times. As far as begging him to come back, I don't think anybody would want to be in the position of putting theri family at risk and the decision had to be left to Neil (and rightly so).
Quote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 04:27:47 PM
Why did the match itself even go ahead after the death threat?
Because Neil said he wanted the match to go ahead
Quote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 04:27:47 PM
In ANY other country there would have been uproar.
There was a fecking uproar.
Quote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 04:27:47 PM
But sure you have the best fans in the world anyway, don't you?
No, we won an award for the best supporters in Europe but it means about as much as any other award. Nice to have but bollix in the grand schem of things.
Quote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 04:27:47 PM
You cannot deny that even if he was booed (in the precluding matches) by a minority of your fans the majority threw the stones of silence.
I can deny it because it's complete bollix. The vast majority of the crowd sang 'One Neil Lennon' and again this has been acknowledged by Neil himself.
Quote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 04:27:47 PM
God help whatever small section of the crowd cheered him on against that Norway team, and fair play to them. If your team's fans were full of them I'd happily acknowledge your efforts, but doubts remain.
What small section it was the whole crowd.
Finally even if everything you said was true (which it clearly isn't) why on earth would a Celtic player getting abuse mean that somebody from NI decided to support the RoI? Given that the person from NI would have no connection with either Celtic or the RoI.
Quote from: hardstation on August 24, 2007, 04:37:54 PM
So you support a team representing a 'state' that you don't recognise just to spite others.
Like the question a lot Celtic 'supporters' have difficulty with.
Which would you prefer, Celtic to win the league or Rangers to be relegated?
To whom is that question addressed?
Maddog, some of us supported the real Ireland team long before they were "successful" my first game was in March 1977 with the likes of John Giles , Paddy Mulligan and Ray Treacy playing.
The reason why many in the North cannot have any affinity with the IFA team is the monoculturally unionist and loyalist nature that is a North of Ireland game, using English National anthem and the terraces resemble the Field on the 12th of July with the flags banners etc. As I say do away with the symbolism and you will automatically lose many of the bigots that latch on to it
Until these very simple fundamental issues are acknowledged let alone addressed there will be no significant support forthcoming for the IFA team from the catholic nationalist population
Stibhan 88 writes
"I wasn't at Windsor Park on my way home from school - I was walking up University Avenue on the night of the England match and a group of fans heading towards Windsor decided that it would be good form to call me a "fenian bastard" and tell me about 200 years of the Union through the modicum of song. I was less than impressed."
Sammy replies
"So you were at school at 7 o'clock in the evening?"
Sammy take a break, read a bit slower than your normal speed please.
Quote from: T Fearon on August 24, 2007, 04:56:46 PMThe reason why many in the North cannot have any affinity with the IFA team is the monoculturally unionist and loyalist nature that is a North of Ireland game, using English National anthem and the terraces resemble the Field on the 12th of July with the flags banners etc. As I say do away with the symbolism and you will automatically lose many of the bigots that latch on to it
Err there haven't been any terraces at WP for many years and as far as resembling the field at the Twelfth
(http://www.irishfa.com/filestore/images/library/n.ireland-fans-1.jpg)
or
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/gareth-irvine-photography/1206610895/in/set-72157601601315170/)
or even
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/gareth-irvine-photography/1206615973/in/set-72157601601315170/)
I don't remember seeing all those green shirts and celtic crosses in any pictures of the Twelfth. ::)
Or anybody that looked like her ;)
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/gareth-irvine-photography/1207475578/in/set-72157601601315170/)
Quote from: SammyG on August 24, 2007, 04:41:32 PM
Quote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 04:27:47 PMDavid Healy joke about Milltown: "the last person to get a hattrick for Northern Ireland was Michael Stone" doing the rounds everywhere from all accounts. That I got to hear it being a Catholic tells its own story.
So some eejit tells you a sick joke and that means all NI fans are sectarian bigots, brilliant.
I think it's pretty clear that is not what I'm trying to say, so don't attempt to twist my words like that you condescending f**ker.
QuoteQuote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 04:27:47 PM
I wasn't at Windsor Park on my way home from school- I was walking up University Avenue on the night of the England match and a group of fans heading towards Windsor decided that it would be good form to call me a "fenian bastard" and tell me about 200 years of the Union through the modicum of song. I was less than impressed.
So you were at school at 7 o'clock in the evening?
Truth be told I was at Gaelic training and because we trained in Cherryvale I get the bus home with the rest of the lads back to the school anyway. Walking then from the City Centre or thereabouts along Dublin Road, Shaftsbery Square and so on.
QuoteQuote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 04:27:47 PM
As for the Neil Lennon affair- why was Lennon booed for being a Celtic player?
I've no idea you'd have to ask the couple of hundred dickheads that booed him. Why was he cheered by most of the crowd who sang One Neil Lennon throughout the match?
"After the Match, Sammy tried to play things down and was so blasé in interviews that unfortunately he gave out the wrong message. It was as though he did not understand what lay at the heart of the whole situation. He indicated that everyone got booed at some time or another in their career- a remark that angered my family in particular..."
Quote
Quote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 04:27:47 PM
Why wasn't he begged back by the IFA and its fans after the death threats?
He was supported fuilly by the IFA and has said so many times. As far as begging him to come back, I don't think anybody would want to be in the position of putting theri family at risk and the decision had to be left to Neil (and rightly so).
I again refer the the match being played.
QuoteQuote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 04:27:47 PM
Why did the match itself even go ahead after the death threat?
Because Neil said he wanted the match to go ahead
Oh, fair enough then. If Neil said it was fine for it to go ahead then there it is. Jesus christ, the man had just been given a death threat. He was probably more worried about his security and his family's security than anyone else. You hardly needed to take his opinion into account to be honest. It shouldn't have went ahead.
QuoteQuote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 04:27:47 PM
In ANY other country there would have been uproar.
There was a fecking uproar.
Not to the extent you'd have expected. Enough uproar to continue a football match, for example.
QuoteQuote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 04:27:47 PM
You cannot deny that even if he was booed (in the precluding matches) by a minority of your fans the majority threw the stones of silence.
I can deny it because it's complete bollix. The vast majority of the crowd sang 'One Neil Lennon' and again this has been acknowledged by Neil himself.
Lennon's Autbiography, whilst indeed recognising the supporters who cheered him on- and fair play to them- seems to focus more on the 700-strong crowd of abusers that the IFA spokesperson suggested were "travelling Rangers fans." Yes, an entire band of 700 came over just to boo Neil Lennon. This kind of attitude is what makes me sick about the IFA and Northern Ireland fans- heads in the sand. Whilst there were undoubtedly a good portion and you may even say a majority of decent fans in the stadium, judging from Lennon's comments after the game, his emotions seem to centre on a large minority that were abusing him. The fact that "sure it's only a minority" involved in the abuse is one of the excuses for it doesn't really wash with me.
QuoteQuote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 04:27:47 PM
God help whatever small section of the crowd cheered him on against that Norway team, and fair play to them. If your team's fans were full of them I'd happily acknowledge your efforts, but doubts remain.
What small section it was the whole crowd.
That really doesn't make sene in lieu of what we are discussing: sectarian chants from your fans towards a Northern Ireland player: "we've got a provo on our team" etc.
Other wonderful excerpts include "I had heard anti-Catholic songs being sung at Windsor Park internationals before but like most Catholic players, played on and ignored them.
Quote from: hardstation on August 24, 2007, 04:37:54 PM
So you support a team representing a 'state' that you don't recognise just to spite others.
Like the question a lot Celtic 'supporters' have difficulty with.
Which would you prefer, Celtic to win the league or Rangers to be relegated?
Celtic to win the league in my case.
I fully recognise the southern state btw. I have no idea what the hell you're talking about there.
Quote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 05:06:55 PM
Quote from: SammyG on August 24, 2007, 04:41:32 PM
Quote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 04:27:47 PMDavid Healy joke about Milltown: "the last person to get a hattrick for Northern Ireland was Michael Stone" doing the rounds everywhere from all accounts. That I got to hear it being a Catholic tells its own story.
So some eejit tells you a sick joke and that means all NI fans are sectarian bigots, brilliant.
I think it's pretty clear that is not what I'm trying to say, so don't attempt to twist my words like that you condescending f**ker.
Ok what were you tryig to say then?
QuoteQuote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 04:27:47 PM
I wasn't at Windsor Park on my way home from school- I was walking up University Avenue on the night of the England match and a group of fans heading towards Windsor decided that it would be good form to call me a "fenian bastard" and tell me about 200 years of the Union through the modicum of song. I was less than impressed.
So you were at school at 7 o'clock in the evening?
Truth be told I was at Gaelic training and because we trained in Cherryvale I get the bus home with the rest of the lads back to the school anyway. Walking then from the City Centre or thereabouts along Dublin Road, Shaftsbery Square and so on.[/quote]
Fair enough
QuoteQuote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 04:27:47 PM
As for the Neil Lennon affair- why was Lennon booed for being a Celtic player?
I've no idea you'd have to ask the couple of hundred dickheads that booed him. Why was he cheered by most of the crowd who sang One Neil Lennon throughout the match?
"After the Match, Sammy tried to play things down and was so blasé in interviews that unfortunately he gave out the wrong message. It was as though he did not understand what lay at the heart of the whole situation. He indicated that everyone got booed at some time or another in their career- a remark that angered my family in particular..." [/quote]
Do you need a hand moving those goalposts? You said that the IFA and fans didn't back Lennon now you've produced a quote about Sammy Mac (which he disputes but any way). If Sammy Mac did say it then he's a twat (and as I've said he denies it) but that hardly refers back to everybody else connected to Ni football
Quote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 04:27:47 PM
Why wasn't he begged back by the IFA and its fans after the death threats?
He was supported fuilly by the IFA and has said so many times. As far as begging him to come back, I don't think anybody would want to be in the position of putting theri family at risk and the decision had to be left to Neil (and rightly so).[/quote]
I again refer the the match being played.
QuoteQuote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 04:27:47 PM
Why did the match itself even go ahead after the death threat?
Because Neil said he wanted the match to go ahead
Oh, fair enough then. If Neil said it was fine for it to go ahead then there it is. Jesus christ, the man had just been given a death threat. He was probably more worried about his security and his family's security than anyone else. You hardly needed to take his opinion into account to be honest. It shouldn't have went ahead.[/quote]
SO the person involved says he wants it to go ahead but you know better, fair enough. Do you not think that cancelling the match would have given into the fcukwit that made the call in the first place?
QuoteQuote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 04:27:47 PM
In ANY other country there would have been uproar.
There was a fecking uproar.
Not to the extent you'd have expected. Enough uproar to continue a football match, for example.
QuoteQuote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 04:27:47 PM
You cannot deny that even if he was booed (in the precluding matches) by a minority of your fans the majority threw the stones of silence.
I can deny it because it's complete bollix. The vast majority of the crowd sang 'One Neil Lennon' and again this has been acknowledged by Neil himself.
Lennon's Autbiography, whilst indeed recognising the supporters who cheered him on- and fair play to them- seems to focus more on the 700-strong crowd of abusers that the IFA spokesperson suggested were "travelling Rangers fans." Yes, an entire band of 700 came over just to boo Neil Lennon. This kind of attitude is what makes me sick about the IFA and Northern Ireland fans- heads in the sand. Whilst there were undoubtedly a good portion and you may even say a majority of decent fans in the stadium, judging from Lennon's comments after the game, his emotions seem to centre on a large minority that were abusing him. The fact that "sure it's only a minority" involved in the abuse is one of the excuses for it doesn't really wash with me.[/quote]
Where did you get this shite about 700 supporters and them being travelling Rangers fans?
QuoteQuote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 04:27:47 PM
God help whatever small section of the crowd cheered him on against that Norway team, and fair play to them. If your team's fans were full of them I'd happily acknowledge your efforts, but doubts remain.
What small section it was the whole crowd.
Quote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 04:27:47 PM
That really doesn't make sene in lieu of what we are discussing: sectarian chants from your fans towards a Northern Ireland player: "we've got a provo on our team" etc.
Other wonderful excerpts include "I had heard anti-Catholic songs being sung at Windsor Park internationals before but like most Catholic players, played on and ignored them.
WTF are you on about? Who was singing 'we've got a Provo on our team'?
Quote from: SammyG on August 24, 2007, 05:16:52 PM
By your logic, if the match going ahead wasn't giving in to a "fuckwit" then Lennon retiring must have been a cowardly decision. I have no qualms with addressing the fact that most of you don't really care about someone's religion when they cross the white line on the pitch but there is a large minority that do in my opinion and experience. I used to look out for Northern Ireland's results before the Lennon incident, and was beginning to accept them again before i was sectarianly abused and heard all of those jokes. The point that I was trying to make about that was that rather than the entirety of fans being "fuckwits" and bigots there isn't enough being done about whatever small minority exists imo.
I cannot give you the exact publication or date but I was under the impression from an interview from Lennon. Here's an alliance party (I apologise for that, I despise them) website link with an account from one of them: http://www.allianceparty.org/articles/000028.html
I refer you to:
"That booing was augmented by various renditions of 'The Sash', 'The Billy Boys', and chants of "We've Got a Provo on our Team' and 'We Hate Fenians'. Like many other fans sickened by the bigots, I left the game early, refusing to be associated with their sectarian abuse and intolerance."
Lennon: "Man and Bhoy" page 9:
'Obviously we are very disappointed by the reaction of a section of the crowd. But there is very little we can do about it.
'It is very difficult to counter a small element. We don't even know who they are. It might have been Rangers supporters coming over for the match, because we'd read press reports before this match that Rangers supporters were planning to attend to give Neil Lennon a hard time.'
(quoted as an IFA spokesman).
This quote to me demonstrates not neccesarily a deep-rooted sectarian problem within the institution but a relcutance to deal with the real problems tackling the sport as a whole, and this is where the quote from Sammy McIlroy pertains to my argument.
I can understand your resentment if you received sectarian abuse, You obviously hold all ni fans to some degree accountable however, but the joke means nothing surely - who knows who started it ffs.
Theres plenty of sick/crass jokes do the rounds concerning all manner of institutions which have nothing to do with the joke.
QuoteThe point that I was trying to make about that was that rather than the entirety of fans being "fuckwits" and bigots there isn't enough being done about whatever small minority exists imo.
There has been a massive amount done, as anyone who goes to a game with an open mind can see.
As for the rangers fans, there where certainly some scottish lads over who seemingly where there only to boo lennon. There where also ni lads involved as well.
Quote from: nifan on August 24, 2007, 05:52:18 PM
I can understand your resentment if you received sectarian abuse, You obviously hold all ni fans to some degree accountable however, but the joke means nothing surely - who knows who started it ffs.
Theres plenty of sick/crass jokes do the rounds concerning all manner of institutions which have nothing to do with the joke.
QuoteThe point that I was trying to make about that was that rather than the entirety of fans being "fuckwits" and bigots there isn't enough being done about whatever small minority exists imo.
There has been a massive amount done, as anyone who goes to a game with an open mind can see.
As for the rangers fans, there where certainly some scottish lads over who seemingly where there only to boo lennon. There where also ni lads involved as well.
I don't hold all Northern Ireland fans accountable. In this country it is the social situation you are brought up in that makes you want to support certain teams and whatever team you do support, it is bloody hard to accept some cold and hard truths about them and their fans. I know a decent amount of Catholic Northern Ireland supporters or followers and I resent their superior attitude about them being "less sectarian" than those of us who support the Republic more than just some ordinary Northern Ireland fans. What I don't accept is Northern Ireland fans chanting "Healy" all around the place as (whilst generally harmless) what it indicates is a lack of respect for other people. I don't go about chanting "Keano" or whatever all about the place so I don't see why Northern Ireland fans should do that. That is possibly a minor gripe taking account of the rest of the situation, however.
What I do think is that a lot of you have your heads in the sand, and that doesn't mean all of you. A Night In November was roundly chastised by many Northern Ireland fans but it does portray some home truths about how things were with your fans for a very, very long time- and I think it's natural to admit it'll take a generation or two for things to get as good as they can, I still won't let my kids support you unfortunately but that's because I've always been a Republic supporter.
I do not accept that any Rangers fans would come over to boo Lennon.
I love the way this thread has stuck to the original subject. ;D
sammy, most nationalists will not support ni no matter what the ifa do (or kate hoey says) as it represents a political enity they do not wish to see exist. just like you will never support gaa as it represents a 32 county ireland that you dont want to see exist. parity and all that.. it follows on that anyone in nii who wishes to represent the roi (like gibson) should be allowed do so...
QuoteI don't go about chanting "Keano" or whatever all about the place so I don't see why Northern Ireland fans should do that.
Have you ever been in the holylands late at night?
Keano, Ole Ole Ole etc all get an airing on occasion.
Its not a NI fan phenomena to have people chanting when drunk.
Quote from: magickingdom on August 24, 2007, 06:27:33 PM
sammy, most nationalists will not support ni no matter what the ifa do (or kate hoey says) as it represents a political enity they do not wish to see exist. just like you will never support gaa as it represents a 32 county ireland that you dont want to see exist. parity and all that.. it follows on that anyone in nii who wishes to represent the roi (like gibson) should be allowed do so...
Well said my Munster
Friend Rival
It really is as simple as that.
Quote from: nifan on August 24, 2007, 07:08:58 PM
QuoteI don't go about chanting "Keano" or whatever all about the place so I don't see why Northern Ireland fans should do that.
Have you ever been in the holylands late at night?
Keano, Ole Ole Ole etc all get an airing on occasion.
Its not a NI fan phenomena to have people chanting when drunk.
Holylands: mainly Catholic student area.
Assorted collection of nightclubs in and around Belfast, T Vital, City Centre, etc: not neccesarily Catholic or student areas.
I see somewhat of a difference, and most of the people I hear singing it aren't exactly intoxicated.
Quote from: magickingdom on August 24, 2007, 06:27:33 PM
sammy, most nationalists will not support ni no matter what the ifa do (or kate hoey says) as it represents a political enity they do not wish to see exist.
Strange that some manage it fine and even stranger that some have no problem with supporting the RoI which is also a 'political entity they do not wish to see exist'.
Quote from: magickingdom on August 24, 2007, 06:27:33 PM
just like you will never support gaa as it represents a 32 county ireland that you dont want to see exist. parity and all that..
Aye you're right that's exactly the same. Wanting to remove politics from sport is the same as wanting to support it.
Quote from: magickingdom on August 24, 2007, 06:27:33 PM
it follows on that anyone in nii who wishes to represent the roi (like gibson) should be allowed do so...
How on earth does it follow? There are people in NI who support Engerlund does it follow that they should be allowed to play for them, there are people who support Brazil, does it follow that they should be allowed to play for them. The fact that DG supports the RoI (which is actually doubtful given that he played for NI and has said himself that he switched to improve his chances) doesn't in any way change his elligibility.
Quote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 07:56:11 PM
Quote from: nifan on August 24, 2007, 07:08:58 PM
QuoteI don't go about chanting "Keano" or whatever all about the place so I don't see why Northern Ireland fans should do that.
Have you ever been in the holylands late at night?
Keano, Ole Ole Ole etc all get an airing on occasion.
Its not a NI fan phenomena to have people chanting when drunk.
Holylands: mainly Catholic student area.
Assorted collection of nightclubs in and around Belfast, T Vital, City Centre, etc: not neccesarily Catholic or student areas.
I see somewhat of a difference, and most of the people I hear singing it aren't exactly intoxicated.
WTF has anybody's relegion or the make up of the area got to do with anything? Do you have the same problem when Engerlund fans sing at Reading or Scotland fans sing at T in the Park?
Are you actually FROM northern Ireland or what? Do you people think that this country is the most tolerant nation in the world or am I missing something here? Jesus Christ!
Quote from: SammyG on August 24, 2007, 07:57:02 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on August 24, 2007, 06:27:33 PM
sammy, most nationalists will not support ni no matter what the ifa do (or kate hoey says) as it represents a political enity they do not wish to see exist.
Strange that some manage it fine and even stranger that some have no problem with supporting the RoI which is also a 'political entity they do not wish to see exist'.
Quote from: magickingdom on August 24, 2007, 06:27:33 PM
just like you will never support gaa as it represents a 32 county ireland that you dont want to see exist. parity and all that..
Aye you're right that's exactly the same. Wanting to remove politics from sport is the same as wanting to support it.
Quote from: magickingdom on August 24, 2007, 06:27:33 PM
it follows on that anyone in nii who wishes to represent the roi (like gibson) should be allowed do so...
How on earth does it follow? There are people in NI who support Engerlund does it follow that they should be allowed to play for them, there are people who support Brazil, does it follow that they should be allowed to play for them. The fact that DG supports the RoI (which is actually doubtful given that he played for NI and has said himself that he switched to improve his chances) doesn't in any way change his elligibility.
MK acknowledged that some nationalists do support NI Sammy, and not many so your point is worthless. Support is a loose term here too, I bet none of them would say they are fans of one or the other, just loosely back them from time to time.
Gibson is very much a ROI fan, and now an ROI player. He's worn the shirt on the streets of his hometown many times over the years and now he's done it on the field on the big stage so give up that pathetic argument
Quote from: ExiledGael on August 24, 2007, 09:01:45 PMGibson is very much a ROI fan, and now an ROI player. He's worn the shirt on the streets of his hometown many times over the years and now he's done it on the field on the big stage so give up that pathetic argument
Sorry in what way is asking FIFA to enforce their rules somehow 'pathetic'? Do you suggest that they just abandon all rules and let people play for whoever they want?
Quote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 08:53:56 PM
Are you actually FROM northern Ireland or what? Do you people think that this country is the most tolerant nation in the world or am I missing something here? Jesus Christ!
When did I mention anybody being tolerant or anything else?
Quote from: SammyG on August 24, 2007, 09:05:33 PM
Quote from: ExiledGael on August 24, 2007, 09:01:45 PMGibson is very much a ROI fan, and now an ROI player. He's worn the shirt on the streets of his hometown many times over the years and now he's done it on the field on the big stage so give up that pathetic argument
Sorry in what way is asking FIFA to enforce their rules somehow 'pathetic'? Do you suggest that they just abandon all rules and let people play for whoever they want?
You must know that rule area is at the very least grey, it's only fair that the lad can play for the nation he is most part of, the only nation he truly recognises here. It's almost impossible to set black and white rules to our colourful past.
Rules as they stand aside, do you think that a person born in Northern Ireland should be able to choose to play for the ROI? yes/no
Quote from: ExiledGael on August 24, 2007, 09:13:30 PM
Quote from: SammyG on August 24, 2007, 09:05:33 PM
Quote from: ExiledGael on August 24, 2007, 09:01:45 PMGibson is very much a ROI fan, and now an ROI player. He's worn the shirt on the streets of his hometown many times over the years and now he's done it on the field on the big stage so give up that pathetic argument
Sorry in what way is asking FIFA to enforce their rules somehow 'pathetic'? Do you suggest that they just abandon all rules and let people play for whoever they want?
You must know that rule area is at the very least grey, it's only fair that the lad can play for the nation he is most part of, the only nation he truly recognises here. It's almost impossible to set black and white rules to our colourful past.
The rules are totally black and white and have managed to accomodate places with a much more 'colourful past' than ours (Yugoslavia, USSR, Germany etc)
Quote from: ExiledGael on August 24, 2007, 09:13:30 PM
Rules as they stand aside, do you think that a person born in Northern Ireland should be able to choose to play for the ROI? yes/no
100% no, they are no more elligible to play for the RoI than Australia or Brazil.
Do you think a person born in NI should be elibigble for an Irish passport then? (without grandparents pre 1921 etc)
Quote from: ExiledGael on August 24, 2007, 09:23:42 PM
Do you think a person born in NI should be elibigble for an Irish passport then? (without grandparents pre 1921 etc)
Yes (I'm presumingyou mean an RoI passport)
Yes ofcourse, now where's the theoretical difference, very questionable and hazy rules aside, why the difference?
Quote from: ExiledGael on August 24, 2007, 09:28:16 PM
Yes ofcourse, now where's the theoretical difference, very questionable and hazy rules aside, why the difference?
Where's the theoretical difference in what?
Between a person being born in Northern Ireland and being eligible for a ROI passport, and a person born in Northern Ireland being eligible to play for the ROI?
Quote from: ExiledGael on August 24, 2007, 09:38:35 PM
Between a person being born in Northern Ireland and being eligible for a ROI passport, and a person born in Northern Ireland being eligible to play for the ROI?
Err elligibility for passports, citizenships etc are decided by governments. The Dail could decide to give passports to everybody that asked for one, if they so wished.
Elligibility to play in football competitions is based on the rules of the competition and has no connection to international citizenship laws.
The rules were brought in to stop countries buying in players who had no connection, to boost their team. A bit like the FAI are trying to do with DG.
This whole bullshit is all about that connection, you don't see how we (NI catholics, Darron Gibson included) can have a claim to be Irish or are even connected, you won't even let a post with the word Irish pass without picking up on it as a mistake.
You don't/won't recognise our right to be Irish citizens, this is an pointles argument
Quote from: ExiledGael on August 24, 2007, 09:47:30 PM
This whole bullshit is all about that connection, you don't see how we (NI catholics, Darron Gibson included) can have a claim to be Irish or are even connected, you won't even let a post with the word Irish pass without picking up on it as a mistake.
You don't/won't recognise our right to be Irish citizens, this is an pointles argument
How do you get that opinion, I said categorically that I accept the rights of anybody born in NI to have an RoI passport (and it certainly isn't just Catholics). What I don't get is the bizarre leap to try and re-write the FIFA rules?
Quote from: SammyG on August 24, 2007, 09:05:33 PM
Quote from: ExiledGael on August 24, 2007, 09:01:45 PMGibson is very much a ROI fan, and now an ROI player. He's worn the shirt on the streets of his hometown many times over the years and now he's done it on the field on the big stage so give up that pathetic argument
Sorry in what way is asking FIFA to enforce their rules somehow 'pathetic'? Do you suggest that they just abandon all rules and let people play for whoever they want?
How the hell can you blame Gibson for wanting to play for the republic given the fate of Neil Lennon and the death threats he received? This is what Northern Ireland fans will reap from now on for the countless years of sectarian abuse dished out by whatever minority or majority of fans did so until they make themselves identifiable with Catholics and Protestants rather than solely the latter. Get rid of the national anthem in place of Danny Boy, get rid of the sectarian element within your support and get rid of the flag in place of something more on the level and I'll consider wanting you to win matches.
If your minority of hardcore 'fans' continue to abuse Catholics this is the price they will pay- potential stars playing for a team that respects their civil and religious liberties.
Quote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 09:52:17 PM
If your minority of hardcore 'fans' continue to abuse Catholics this is the price they will pay- potential stars playing for a team that respects their civil and religious liberties.
Truely the most pathetic post I've ever read, on this site and that's saying something. What the fcuk has playing football got to do with civil and relegious liberties?
Presumably that well known hurler and NI captain, Chris Baird, is some sort of relgious traitor in your eyes. >:(
(http://www.adambrennan.co.uk/media/owc/licky/600/IMG_0493.jpg)
Quote from: hardstation on August 24, 2007, 10:03:52 PM
When you say a well known hurler, you mean someone who played a couple of games for his school.
I saw him play once and he was there to make up the numbers.
Sorry there should have been a comma
It should have read well known, hurler and NI captain, not that it really matters. I wasn't trying to say he was a famous hurler.
Quote from: SammyG on August 24, 2007, 09:58:17 PM
Quote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 09:52:17 PM
If your minority of hardcore 'fans' continue to abuse Catholics this is the price they will pay- potential stars playing for a team that respects their civil and religious liberties.
Truely the most pathetic post I've ever read, on this site and that's saying something. What the fcuk has playing football got to do with civil and relegious liberties?
Absolutely none, but then tell me why that happened to Neil Lennon, because it wasn't for his lack of goals that he was abused. It wasn't anything other than sectarian abuse you wouldn't hear anywhere else but from the team that goes ahead with a match after their captain has been given a death threat.
And fair play to Chris Baird for being selected captain- a great honour for him, no doubt, and I hope that his reign as captain (although admittedly as stand-in to Hughes by all accounts) is happier than Lennon's. It still doesn't excuse the treatment ditched out to nationalists at all imo, both on and off the pitch.
Quote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 10:24:33 PM
Quote from: SammyG on August 24, 2007, 09:58:17 PM
Quote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 09:52:17 PM
If your minority of hardcore 'fans' continue to abuse Catholics this is the price they will pay- potential stars playing for a team that respects their civil and religious liberties.
Truely the most pathetic post I've ever read, on this site and that's saying something. What the fcuk has playing football got to do with civil and relegious liberties?
Absolutely none, but then tell me why that happened to Neil Lennon, because it wasn't for his lack of goals that he was abused. It wasn't anything other than sectarian abuse you wouldn't hear anywhere else but from the team that goes ahead with a match after their captain has been given a death threat.
Can you tell me what sectarian abuse you think NL recieved and when it happened? Also can you tell me whether he changed his relegious denomination at any stage?
Quote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 10:24:33 PM
And fair play to Chris Baird for being selected captain- a great honour for him, no doubt, and I hope that his reign as captain (although admittedly as stand-in to Hughes by all accounts) is happier than Lennon's.
Do you have to walk round in circles all the time or have you found a way to walk with that chip on your shoulder?
Quote from: stibhan88 on August 24, 2007, 10:24:33 PM
It still doesn't excuse the treatment ditched out to nationalists at all imo, both on and off the pitch.
WTF is that supposed to mean?
Do you not believe Neil Lennon was subjected to any abuse Sammy?
Quote from: ExiledGael on August 24, 2007, 10:33:52 PM
Do you not believe Neil Lennon was subjected to any abuse Sammy?
??? ???
When have I ever said that NL didn't get abuse? I was one of the people that stood up to the cnuts that were giving him stick (and I'm usually a f**king wimp) and totally condemn them.
My issue is with this bollix about sectarian abuse. It was nothing of the sort, it was Rangers fans abusing a Celtic player. Totally wrong but fcuk all to do with sectarianism. NL played 30 odd games for NI and never got any abuse (and nor should he have) he then joined Celtic and got abuse from a tiny crowd in the Kop and support from everybody else.
Is this all not getting a bit boring lads ???
so sammy you want to 'force' people born in ni who dont want to play for ni to play for ni. how fcuked up is that? why dont you move your team out of that ground into a new one anywhere, dont name the new ground after the queen of englands family and then ask them to play for you? you never know the odd one just might... (dont expect a rush)
Quote from: magickingdom on August 24, 2007, 10:52:49 PM
so sammy you want to 'force' people born in ni who dont want to play for ni to play for ni. how fcuked up is that?
Not at all. I'm not interested in forcing anybody to play for NI and have never menetioned it. I only want people that want to pull on the green shirt.
Quote from: magickingdom on August 24, 2007, 10:52:49 PM
why dont you move your team out of that ground into a new one anywhere,
Totally agree
Quote from: magickingdom on August 24, 2007, 10:52:49 PM
dont name the new ground after the queen of englands family and then ask them to play for you?
You do know that Windsor Park was named about 30 years BEFORE the British royal family changed their name to Windsor, so unless somebody had a time machine, it's unlikely that it was named after the queen's family.
Quote from: magickingdom on August 24, 2007, 10:52:49 PM
you never know the odd one just might... (dont expect a rush)
See previous posts.
You don't want the lad to play for the republic and, as he clearly doesn't want to play for NI , you don't want him to play for NI?
What's the lad to do??
Quote from: ExiledGael on August 24, 2007, 11:02:48 PM
You don't want the lad to play for the republic and,
Fcuk all to do with me, he can't play because he isn't elligible
Quote from: ExiledGael on August 24, 2007, 11:02:48 PM
as he clearly doesn't want to play for NI ,
He has already played for NI, if he hadn't he would be elligible for the RoI.
Quote from: ExiledGael on August 24, 2007, 11:02:48 PM
you don't want him to play for NI?
When did I say that? I'd welcome him the same as any other player.
Quote from: ExiledGael on August 24, 2007, 11:02:48 PM
What's the lad to do??
Follow the rules the same as every other player in the world. I'm sure Ryan Giggs would love a go with Brazil instead of Wales but he doesn't have a choice.
Well he did play at senior level and will again so deal with it Sam
He played for NI at u-16 which really means jack shit
You said two posts ago that you only want people "who want to pull on the green shirt", Darron doesn't!!!!
Ryan Giggs did have a choice and played for England at schoolboy but chose the team he felt he belonged to
Quote from: ExiledGael on August 24, 2007, 11:11:00 PM
Well he did play at senior level and will again so deal with it Sam
I can deal with it an I'll love it when he plays a competitive match and it gets awarded as a 3-0 to the opposition. No problem dealing with that.
Quote from: ExiledGael on August 24, 2007, 11:11:00 PM
He played for NI at u-16 which really means jack shit
Not acording to FIFA
Quote from: ExiledGael on August 24, 2007, 11:11:00 PM
You said two posts ago that you only want people "who want to pull on the green shirt", Darron doesn't!!!!
How do you know he doesn't? As previously stated he already has.
Quote from: ExiledGael on August 24, 2007, 11:11:00 PM
Ryan Giggs did have a choice and played for England at schoolboy but chose the team he felt he belonged to
Schoolboy rules are based on what school you go to, not what country you're elligible for, so are completely irrelevant to this discussion.
Jesus Sam your starting to sound like Kevin Keegan there.. anyway that won't happen, even you must know that.
Underage games do not mean you have set your allegiance to that country
And stop saying Darron may want to play for NI, he definitely does not, and that's right from the horses mouth, I've spent half my life in Derry
Quote from: SammyG on August 24, 2007, 11:14:23 PM
Quote from: ExiledGael on August 24, 2007, 11:11:00 PM
Ryan Giggs did have a choice and played for England at schoolboy but chose the team he felt he belonged to
Schoolboy rules are based on what school you go to, not what country you're elligible for, so are completely irrelevant to this discussion.
Michael Owens?
Quote from: hardstation on August 25, 2007, 01:02:02 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on August 25, 2007, 01:00:32 AM
Quote from: SammyG on August 24, 2007, 11:14:23 PM
Quote from: ExiledGael on August 24, 2007, 11:11:00 PM
Ryan Giggs did have a choice and played for England at schoolboy but chose the team he felt he belonged to
Schoolboy rules are based on what school you go to, not what country you're elligible for, so are completely irrelevant to this discussion.
Michael Owens?
Owens? You're still thinking about the Falls's Corner argument.
I've stated many times, I know jack-shit about soccer. :D Just that Michael Owen (?) is Welsh :P
Quote from: SammyG on August 24, 2007, 11:14:23 PM
[I can deal with it an I'll love it when he plays a competitive match and it gets awarded as a 3-0 to the opposition. No problem dealing with that.
Thicker than 10 4x2's
You really know feck all about FIFA regulations. Yet you continue to spout the most dogmatic shite on the topic.
FIFA have agreed to Darren's transfer years ago.
They have reviewed his written request and reviewed the supporting documentation and given his clearance years ago to play for Ireland.
WTF are on about the 3-0 shite for. Only in your mad revenge dreams.
The ANNEX that the IFA and the gullible twats on OWC harp on about is used on Naturalization issues only
It is only used where article 15.3 does not apply. FIFA have made that clear.
The ANNEX to article 15 has never applied to Darron. Any idea that the IFA or the gullible twats have that FIFA are even considering to spend any more time on this issue is dillusional.
Quote from: Main Street on August 25, 2007, 01:22:09 AM
Thicker than 10 4x2's
You certainly seem to be
Quote from: Main Street on August 25, 2007, 01:22:09 AM
You really know feck all about FIFA regulations. Yet you continue to spout the most dogmatic shite on the topic.
NOt sure how repeating the FIFA rules is dogmatic shite but I'm sure you'll tell me
Quote from: Main Street on August 25, 2007, 01:22:09 AM
FIFA have agreed to Darren's transfer years ago.
So why do they say they haven't and are waiting for the FAI to respond?
Quote from: Main Street on August 25, 2007, 01:22:09 AM
They have reviewed his written request and reviewed the supporting documentation and given his clearance years ago to play for Ireland.
When
Quote from: Main Street on August 25, 2007, 01:22:09 AM
WTF are on about the 3-0 shite for. Only in your mad revenge dreams.
That's the standard punshment for a voided match
Quote from: Main Street on August 25, 2007, 01:22:09 AM
The ANNEX that the IFA and the gullible twats on OWC harp on about is used on Naturalization issues only
Interesting that you state exactly what I've been saying but somehow decide that I'm a gullible twat. The whole point is that DG played for the NI, therefore to switch the annex rules apply. It's not that difficult.
Quote from: Main Street on August 25, 2007, 01:22:09 AM
It is only used where article 15.3 does not apply. FIFA have made that clear.
Correct
Quote from: Main Street on August 25, 2007, 01:22:09 AM
The ANNEX to article 15 has never applied to Darron. Any idea that the IFA or the gullible twats have that FIFA are even considering to spend any more time on this issue is dillusional.
On what grounds would it not apply?
Quote from: Goats Do Shave on August 23, 2007, 03:42:24 PM
Quote from: The Subbie on August 23, 2007, 02:34:59 PM
Liam Millar ??? Nah don't think so
Jonathan Douglas ;D ;D ;D don't think so .
Andy reid on his display last night would be worth looking at.
Its only when you start thinking that you realise that the real Ireland team ;) are spread fairly thin at central midfield.
Poor old Liam, playing in the Australian A League, gives away (harshly) the penalty which leads Brisbane Roar to win grand final
Quote from: SammyG on August 24, 2007, 11:14:23 PM
Quote from: ExiledGael on August 24, 2007, 11:11:00 PM
Well he did play at senior level and will again so deal with it Sam
I can deal with it an I'll love it when he plays a competitive match and it gets awarded as a 3-0 to the opposition. No problem dealing with that.
I presume this 5 year old comment relates to Darron Gibson. ;D
Quote from: gerrykeegan on April 22, 2012, 09:14:36 AM
Poor old Liam, playing in the Australian A League, gives away (harshly) the penalty which leads Brisbane Roar to win grand final
Not so much Liam giving away the penalty but the referee giving the penalty. The worst EVER decision of any soccer match I have seen. 25 y.o. referee has just ended his career in the last minute of the final game of the season.
Aerlik, I'm surprised this is the worst decision you've seen. On first viewing watching it live I said penalty, the angle the ref had meant it wasn't an unreasonable decision.
That the replays show it definitely was not a penalty is neither here nor there, it was a split second decision.
Quote from: Aerlik on April 24, 2012, 02:01:24 PM
Quote from: gerrykeegan on April 22, 2012, 09:14:36 AM
Poor old Liam, playing in the Australian A League, gives away (harshly) the penalty which leads Brisbane Roar to win grand final
Not so much Liam giving away the penalty but the referee giving the penalty. The worst EVER decision of any soccer match I have seen. 25 y.o. referee has just ended his career in the last minute of the final game of the season.
You haven't seen the last two penos Ashley Young was given so!!