..........Provincial winners gained no advantage over Provincal losers as to progression in AI competition.
..........The Semple gate affair, handled terribly. Amateur players deserve better.
..........Cork could have won an AI having lost two games.
..........Kilkenny have not played a Munster team.
.........Waterford played 5 championship games this year yet only met two teams.
.........No one outside of the Big 8 made the breakthrough.
.........Limerick are in the final having played no one outside of Munster.
.........Wexford got to a semi-final and distorted their standing.
.........League games proved to be a mess with Laois, Dublin, Antrim and Offaly getting hidings.
........The doubling up of replays of quarterfinals with Semifinals to get 45 euro for tickets where often the other game was the other code.
Kilkenny and Cork win AIs. We have 4/6 others who can pretend. And we have 24 others who are just so far off of the mark it is not funny. The Ring and Rickard Cups have tried to address the problem in weaker counties but this has been nearly impossible to grade and the finals just end up one sided. Yes we got some good games but, there seemed to be a case of rearranging the deck chairs to the Championship. You lose here you go into a league Basis, it just seems to be about giving you chances and chances to qualify for the quarters. then again when you have a championship with 8 teams i suppose you have to do that. So much for it being called an "ALL" Ireland title.
It's not KK fault that they didn't meet a Munster side, If Tipp had of bet Wexford and went on to get tanked by KK would we all be complaining?
Granted Wexford I admit are in a dire state but I argue the point that KK would have 10 points on every other county in the Championship.
Cork have slipped back and with the loss of some key players due to retirement will slip back further.
Waterford - same as Cork but seem to have no underage players
Galway, same old failings - show us signs but don't deliver
Clare - I can't see them making any sort of impact on the championship for a long time.
Offaly - Similar to Clare.
Dublin - Plenty of promise, if they can bridge to gap between underage and senior should be Leinsters second best in the next 2 to 3 years
Wexford - You can't win games with 4 forwards who are Christy Ring standard, Will stumble along as Leinsters second best until Dublin pass them out
Tipp - Right I'm no fan of Tipp, yet I do believe that with a major change in players and the county boards mentality they are the best equipped to challange KK. Tipp have an Embarrassment of riches in underage. Last year a very good U21 side along with an excellent Minor side, don't get me started on this years minor team - What a team
Limerick - Well, I've been a critic but fair play to them for getting to the All-Ireland final, should they pull off a major shock (not impossible, Greece did win Euro 2004) I still think they are not going to be in this position next year or the year after.
Antrim - Same as Galway need would benefit from a major overhaul of the current structure
Fergal - to say that Kilkenny would have ten points on every team in the championship is typical of Wexford and other Leinster counties fans tryingt o hide the fact that their provincial championship is S***!
Reality is this that while Wexford caught Tipp on the hop they are still a very poor team as are Offaly which with the exception of Galway (beat by Clare remember) are all that Kilkenny have beaten this year. Kilkenny haven't had a real test all year and now that Limerick also caught Waterford on the hop means that they will have in all probability a handy All Ireland( hope I'm wrong).
The current structure in Leinster gives Kilkenny a fierce advantage as they don't need to peak untuil August/Spetember while the Munster counties are kncoking seven bells out of each other from late May. Before you come on spouting examine the facts in the 80's and 90's when the Leinster championship was competitive how many All-Ireland's did Kilkenny win? Two in each decade, thats the same since 2000 when the Leinster championsip has descended into a farce - reality is the one year that Wexford beat them Kilkenny failed to win the All-Ireland via the back door, couldn't cope with the extra games?
No denying that the current crop of Kilkenny players since 2000 are extremely talented but I beleive like many other hurling fans that the weak state of the Leinster championship is providing them with a distinct competitive advantage over the likes of Waterford, Cork, Tipp and Limerick.
Well it tends to go that if KK win an All Ireland they got a soft one but if they lose the final it's because they werent battle hardened along the way.
They've had a handy enough route to the final this year but that was the luck of the draw after the leinster championship [which i dont think anyone would argue isnt a mess at the moment.]
I hope to god Tipp and Galway sort themselves out to challenge KK because we need contenders on a national level for kk.
Yes the rest of Leinster are crap but let's be honest Munster is at it's lowest for a very long time!! KK would dispatch Cork or Waterford with 5-7 points to spare at this moment in time!! Munster people are quick to spout about how poor Leinster is (and yes I agree it is poor) but they will never admit to the fact that the Munster teams are also well operating WELL behind KK..
But sure the Munster championship is shit as well .It's competitive but the standard relative to KK is well below. You guys mistake competiveness for quality
Limerick are a very average hurling team and the fact that the likes of tipp and waterford can't beat them is a sorry endictment of how far the standard in munster has dropped. cork are the only team who could hold their own with kk and by their standards they ahve dropped 40% on previous years.
The rubbish tthta we listened to during the 3 game saga of tippv limerick- and tipp couldn't beat a bad wexford tema. Will you go away out of that and cop yourselves on.The musnter championship today isn't a patch on the 90's.
We're well aware the standard in leinster is poor but munster isn't much better. Clare are muck/tipp are muck/ limerick are very average/ cork are slightly above average and waterford are potentially the only team that could match kk but mentally they struggle.
In fact, Kilkenny v galway was a far higher standard then most games we've seen from munster. Now I'm not saying munster is crap, there's a lot of good teams in there but only one or two would have a hope against kilkenny. I hope Limerick prove me wrong but i fear a bit of a leinster final trimming in the all ireland final this year.
Quote from: Punxsutawney Fergal on August 15, 2007, 08:32:23 AM
It's not KK fault that they didn't meet a Munster side, If Tipp had of bet Wexford and went on to get tanked by KK would we all be complaining?
Granted Wexford I admit are in a dire state but I argue the point that KK would have 10 points on every other county in the Championship.
Cork have slipped back and with the loss of some key players due to retirement will slip back further.
Waterford - same as Cork but seem to have no underage players
Galway, same old failings - show us signs but don't deliver
Clare - I can't see them making any sort of impact on the championship for a long time.
Offaly - Similar to Clare.
Dublin - Plenty of promise, if they can bridge to gap between underage and senior should be Leinsters second best in the next 2 to 3 years
Wexford - You can't win games with 4 forwards who are Christy Ring standard, Will stumble along as Leinsters second best until Dublin pass them out
Tipp - Right I'm no fan of Tipp, yet I do believe that with a major change in players and the county boards mentality they are the best equipped to challange KK. Tipp have an Embarrassment of riches in underage. Last year a very good U21 side along with an excellent Minor side, don't get me started on this years minor team - What a team
Limerick - Well, I've been a critic but fair play to them for getting to the All-Ireland final, should they pull off a major shock (not impossible, Greece did win Euro 2004) I still think they are not going to be in this position next year or the year after.
Antrim - Same as Galway need would benefit from a major overhaul of the current structure
Agree with most of that except i disagree KK have 10 points on everyone. They have 20 on some and less then 10 on others :P
Honestly though, they are the best looking at the moment but in all fairness they have had no real opposition. Some of you may laugh at me, but Limerick look to me closer to KK then any other team at the moment. Not skillwise or qualitywise but committment wise. Limerick fought like dogs for every ball against waterford, they ran themselves ragged and if they do that against KK, they can rattle them and they can win.
Its a simple matter of committment. Are they willing to fight hard enough to make up for their lack in other areas ?
From a Galway point of view..well it boils down to what can Ger Loughnane do with the Galway team on the road up to next years all-ireland.
He had only 8 months to make changes and an improvement in the team and i think they did themselves justice with their performance against KK until the last 10mins.
But the way the all-ireland stands at the moment..the question is should galway be allowed into Leinster to make it more competitvie for the likes of KK instead of an easy walk through to the q/f or s/f for kK.
Galway and antrim are teams that have no competition going in to the draw really in comparison to the likes of munster and if the system is to stay the same for the next 2 years until Dublin get up 2 speed or even the likes then KK will be walking their way through to a q/f again!!
There is also the queston of should Galway be brought into Munster to give them more competition in the run up to the all-ireland?
The motion for the leinster idea was put forward and was rejected by both Galway who being a Connaught team wouldnt be right lifting a Leinster cup and also from the Leinster board stating that there is enough strength in the minors in Leinster to provide competition in the coming years once Dublin and even West Meath get up to speed.
Opinions folks??
In my opinion they need to get revamp the entire structure!
Two groups with teams seeded, top two and the end of group games in each group progress to the All-ireland semi finals.
At the end of the day who really cares about the provincial championships apart from Tipp people that is.
I agree with Fergal, should be two groups which are seeded and drawn via open draw - two per tier in each group, tier to be decided by championship performance over past 3-4 years.
Tier One - Kilkenny, Cork, Waterford, Limerick
Tier Two - Galway, Tipp, Wexford, Clare
Tier Three - Dublin, Offaly, Antrim and Laois
I would retain the Q final structure with 1st in section A V 4th in section B, 2nd section AV 3 thried section etc to ensure best teams make the semi-finals as you could get a section of Kilkenny, Cork, Galway, Tipp, Dublin and Offaly which would be a lot more challenging than the other group.
That's my pennys worth anyway.
we all love watching the Munster Championship but i really believe it has got to the stage where the insistence on sticking with these provincial championships is hindering the development of hurling nationally. do away with them or play them as a secondary competition and work with 2 groups of 5 teams with teams seeded on their performance in National League
for example this year
Group1
Waterford
Wexford
Galway
Clare
Antrim/Laois
Group 2
Kilkenny
Cork
Limerick
Tipp
Dublin/Offaly
2 Home fixtures 2 away. top 2 in each group through to AI semi final, 2nd in group 1 v 3rd in group 2 and VV in AI QF.
Bottom 2 teams play off to avoid demotion to Ring cup.
plenty of flaws in this system and alot of traditionalists would hate it, but it would give the league real significance, no one could complain about soft draws, the ring cup would be more competitive and have a purpose other than playing in Croker
Quote from: Punxsutawney Fergal on August 15, 2007, 03:33:15 PM
In my opinion they need to get revamp the entire structure!
Two groups with teams seeded, top two and the end of group games in each group progress to the All-ireland semi finals.
At the end of the day who really cares about the provincial championships apart from Tipp people that is.
Oh i'm not so sure an open draw is the way forward.
Youse Wexford folk looked damn pleased with yourselves last time you won Leinster :P
In hurling Leinster is a dream for Dublin, just look at the u21s when they won a few weeks ago. i means the world to a county trying to improve but an asses roar away from an all ireland.
Look at Sligo this year. Take away the provinces and that sort of thing goes out the window.
For me, and it's been moted more and more, get Galway and Antrim into Leinster, i think it'd do them both good aswell as the Leinster championship. [would need to be renamed] ... give every county two chances, if anything i think the league could be ditched. do we need a league + provincial + all Ireland series? The league is the weak link if you ask me.
Quote from: maxpower on August 15, 2007, 04:05:39 PM
Group1
Waterford
Wexford
Galway
Clare
Antrim/Laois
Group 2
Kilkenny
Cork
Limerick
Dublin
Offlay
I love it, Tipperary must have objected to the changes so much that their county board pulled them out of the championship. Just think! A Summer of not having to listen to them tell us how they created the sport and how we all should bow down before them ;) ;)
This debate always amuses me because Munster people are the ones who usually complain about Kilkenny's easy run and yet Munster teams are the ones who insist on the sanctity of the Munster championship and how it can't be touched. One or t'other lads.
I would go along with the summation that people aren't realising quite how good this Kilkenny team are, and that I feel sorry for the Cats in that when they blow Limerick away, as they undoubtedly will, everyone will say it's a handy All Ireland instead of it being one team just being that much better than the rest.
Plus most of the dogging of Leinster hurling comes from Tipp people - who lost to Wexford and came damn close to losing to Offaly in Thurles (a game that should have been in Birr if there was any fairness in the world).
Then you have people claiming that Galway are the saviours of it all, despite the fact that when Offaly run Kilkenny close for 57 mins and concede ten points in the last fifteen to lose by thirteen it's a valiant show from a plucky underdog, but when Galway do the more or less the same only three points better (run KK close for 60 minutes and concede ten to lose by ten) it's all about how close Galway came and how they're not far off the mark. This after Galway got the nice gerrymandered qualifier group deliberately laid out to make sure they didn't have to face into two loseable games just in case the poor dears mightn't get the bye into the quarters they pretend they don't want but secretly won't let the GAA deprive them of.
Kilkenny are just better and if you put them into the Munster championship they'd have done more or less the same thing. Let Galway, Antrim plus whoever else wants hurl in Leinster and let that be that.
Quote from: tayto on August 15, 2007, 04:14:09 PM
Quote from: Punxsutawney Fergal on August 15, 2007, 03:33:15 PM
In my opinion they need to get revamp the entire structure!
Two groups with teams seeded, top two and the end of group games in each group progress to the All-ireland semi finals.
At the end of the day who really cares about the provincial championships apart from Tipp people that is.
Oh i'm not so sure an open draw is the way forward.
Youse Wexford folk looked damn pleased with yourselves last time you won Leinster :P
In hurling Leinster is a dream for Dublin, just look at the u21s when they won a few weeks ago. i means the world to a county trying to improve but an asses roar away from an all ireland.
Look at Sligo this year. Take away the provinces and that sort of thing goes out the window.
For me, and it's been moted more and more, get Galway and Antrim into Leinster, i think it'd do them both good aswell as the Leinster championship. [would need to be renamed] ... give every county two chances, if anything i think the league could be ditched. do we need a league + provincial + all Ireland series? The league is the weak link if you ask me.
Does the league not suffice as a time to try out new tactics and also give players a chance to make the panel in the run up to the provincials?
that was my understanding of it..but i can see your points..what exactly does winning the league mean.
it doesnt get a team anywhere in the all-ireland or in the provincials as far as im aware though i could be wrong.
a total restructuring of the system is in order but according to the pundits it may not take place next year..who knows
Well i'm a fan of the league but in a packed calender maybe the league is something that could give way, only if someone can come up with a better championship format. then maybe have a longer more drawn out provincial + all ireland series and allow clubs more weekends during the summer. overall less games maybe, but more meaningful ones.
Quote from: tayto on August 15, 2007, 06:09:29 PM
Well i'm a fan of the league but in a packed calender maybe the league is something that could give way, only if someone can come up with a better championship format. then maybe have a longer more drawn out provincial + all ireland series and allow clubs more weekends during the summer. overall less games maybe, but more meaningful ones.
Why not adopt the same format as the Camogie, they play in a two group format but retain the provincial championship as an add-on to the All-Ireland series. I'm sure there could be some way of tweaking it so that the provincial could still mean something in terms of the All-Ireland
Put Kilkenny into Munster.
Let them try it for a few years .
If they find it too tough put them back into Leinster.
See Tom Humphories in the IT the other day suggesting regional teams.
Brought that up meself on here but what about an Ulster and Connacht team, minus Antrim and Galway players?
Would they be able to challenge established counties? Obviously the ring and rackard cups woul dhave to be played off earlier in the year, which is a problem.
QuoteThen you have people claiming that Galway are the saviours of it all, despite the fact that when Offaly run Kilkenny close for 57 mins and concede ten points in the last fifteen to lose by thirteen it's a valiant show from a plucky underdog, but when Galway do the more or less the same only three points better (run KK close for 60 minutes and concede ten to lose by ten) it's all about how close Galway came and how they're not far off the mark. This after Galway got the nice gerrymandered qualifier group deliberately laid out to make sure they didn't have to face into two loseable games just in case the poor dears mightn't get the bye into the quarters they pretend they don't want but secretly won't let the GAA deprive them of.
They probably give Galway an allowance as along with Cork they are the side who has given Kilkenny the most trouble since the turn of the millenium. No disrespct to Offaly but in the past few years they've just been crushed every time by Kilkenny. Even this year when Offaly put in a good first half against the cats the game was all but over 6 or 7 minutes into the second half and it was a procession after that. Now Galway have got some trimmings off Kilkenny too but have also beaten them twice and were neck and neck with them going into the 62nd minute this year.
And if you have proof of gerrymandered groups then I suggest you take it to the GAA.
Quote from: timmykelleher on August 16, 2007, 11:40:42 AM
Put Kilkenny into Munster.
Let them try it for a few years .
If they find it too tough put them back into Leinster.
Stupid idea but to be honest I'd love to see it just so KK could prove that they would dominate Munster as they do Leinster. Munster teams are slipping back further behind KK but in their own tunnel visioned mind they can't admit it.
To be honest Munster would never agree to any changes in the championship concerning the removal of the Munster championship. I think they should leave Munster alone and let them continue with what they have.
Enter Antrim and Galway into Leinster but play the championship on a league format with the top two going into the Leinster/Connacht/Ulster final
Kilkenny
Galway
Wexford
Dublin
Offaly
Antrim
Laois
Westmeath
I think playing the provinces as a league would see the end of the NHL. which is not necessarily a bad thing. Otherwise i think they need to link league positions to the all ireland somehow. Someone suggested on KKcats that league position could dictate who plays prelim rounds and who gets home advantage. Sounds like a good idea to me, anything to boost the league would be welcome.
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on August 16, 2007, 12:20:32 PM
QuoteThen you have people claiming that Galway are the saviours of it all, despite the fact that when Offaly run Kilkenny close for 57 mins and concede ten points in the last fifteen to lose by thirteen it's a valiant show from a plucky underdog, but when Galway do the more or less the same only three points better (run KK close for 60 minutes and concede ten to lose by ten) it's all about how close Galway came and how they're not far off the mark. This after Galway got the nice gerrymandered qualifier group deliberately laid out to make sure they didn't have to face into two loseable games just in case the poor dears mightn't get the bye into the quarters they pretend they don't want but secretly won't let the GAA deprive them of.
They probably give Galway an allowance as along with Cork they are the side who has given Kilkenny the most trouble since the turn of the millenium. No disrespct to Offaly but in the past few years they've just been crushed every time by Kilkenny. Even this year when Offaly put in a good first half against the cats the game was all but over 6 or 7 minutes into the second half and it was a procession after that. Now Galway have got some trimmings off Kilkenny too but have also beaten them twice and were neck and neck with them going into the 62nd minute this year.
And if you have proof of gerrymandered groups then I suggest you take it to the GAA.
I'm not trying to argue here that we've put it up to Kilkenny - we haven't. However On 57 minutes we were losing 1-15 to 1-12 - like I said, three points worse then and at the finish to what Galway did. I know we were never going to win, but it's very annoying to listen to people thinking that Galway are somehow a top tier hurling team just because they did marginally better.
As for the gerrymandered groups, well I think it's fair to say that the only two teams who could potentially upset the apple cart for any of the "top 8" are Offaly and Dublin. The groups were rigged to ensure that Galway couldn't get either of these, but instead were guaranteed to get the 11th and 12th ranked sides, as well as making sure that ye had no potential of getting a team that actually won a game in Munster like we did. None of that was open draw - I personally would call that gerrymandered, yes.
There were several people in Offaly suggesting we should have let Laois win the first day since Galway and Clare was the easy group to be in. I don't agree with the morality of it, but you can't argue with the logic.
Quotebut it's very annoying to listen to people thinking that Galway are somehow a top tier hurling team just because they did marginally better.
I imagine that people say Galway are a top tier hurling team simply because they have reached 2 All-Ireland finals in the past 6 years. That and all the underage titles they've won. Personally I don't agree with that as you actually have to win an All-Ireland IMO to be considered a top tier team.
Then again most people would say Waterford are a top tier team even though they haven't even reached an All-Ireland final yet.
Swings and roundabouts I guess.
if galway had the 2 cannings this year and fergal moore hadn't of gotten injured that's some team galway have. joe canning is the target man they don't have. What they need is a big number 11. Iarla Tannion is the only man i 've seen break even with tommy walsh in 2 years.With the likes of alan kerins- kerril wade and damien hayes restored up front. they'd trouble anyone.
if loughnane adopts more conventional methods of management- galway might be the only team to trouble the cats next year. It will be 2-3 years before Cork are back- waterford may well be gone- forget the rest. the likes of shefflin are only 26-27 -that's the frightening thing.
People keep talking baout the standard of leinster. people forget this is possibly the greatest team in history-they'd walk munster as well.
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on August 16, 2007, 06:16:01 PM
Quotebut it's very annoying to listen to people thinking that Galway are somehow a top tier hurling team just because they did marginally better.
I imagine that people say Galway are a top tier hurling team simply because they have reached 2 All-Ireland finals in the past 6 years. That and all the underage titles they've won. Personally I don't agree with that as you actually have to win an All-Ireland IMO to be considered a top tier team.
Then again most people would say Waterford are a top tier team even though they haven't even reached an All-Ireland final yet.
Swings and roundabouts I guess.
I will accept that as a bookie I have to have a bias towards the here and now, rather than the context. I would imagine that short of KK and Cork, Galway have probably been the next best team of the last 6 years, but not in 2007. In 2005 ye had Ger Farragher scoring 2-9, Ollie Canning was arguably the best full back line player in Ireland and Eugene Cloonan was still a huge threat. The 2007 Galway had none of these (yes ye had Cloonan, but not in any real sense), and personally I would have rated them as roughly equal to Wexford and behind all the Munster teams and only three or four points ahead of us. nothing that has happened since suggests that this is wrong. This is why I did feel slightly aggrieved that the draw protected them and in doing so kept Offaly away from what I perceived to be one of the more "scalpable" teams. I'm not saying we would have done so, but I'd have fancied our chances a lot more than i did against Tipp or Cork - and lo and behold I think what happened in Ennis justifies that.
Obviously Galway 2008 will be a completely different team, and yes if you add in the two Cannings, find a full back from somewhere and give John Lee another year of development and they will be a much stronger force - that still doesn't mean there should be a qualifier structure designed to make sure they get a handy draw.
Lone Shark in fairness I would put Galway well ahead of Offaly at the minute - was at the Cork V Offaly game in the park and in a word Offaly were brutal! As one of the Cork players said to me afterwards Down would have put up almost as good a show and that's saying something the way Down have been going the past couple of years.
I agree with some of the other sentiments particularly the fact that Offaly have been hard done by with the qualifier system in terms of the number of games they have had to play away from home and also when you point out that Corker go out of their way to faciltiate Galway in terms of championship structure.
For me the big issue is that you probably have 3-4 teams in the top tier Kilkenny, Cork and Waterford along with Limerick, should Limerick be there based on one good year? Hard to know but when you look at it they got to the League Final last year, ran Cork to a point and then followed it up with their performance this year so they have been there or thereabouts in the past few years.
The next tier would be Galway, Tipp, Clare and Wexford - not necessarily in that order all capable on their day of beating the top tier particularly if they catch them off gaurd but unlikely to string two victories over the top tier teams in a row which would generally be required to win the All Ireland.
Finally you would have Dublin, Offaly, Laois and Antrim - being honest I see the most potential in Dublin among this group and expect them and indeed Offaly perhaps top replace Wexford in the second tier of teams. If you were being brutal honest the championship would be restricted to top six of Kilkenny, Cork, Waterford, Galway, Tipp and Clare/Wexford and run on a league format top four for semi finals.
Then Offaly, Dublin, Laois, Antrim, Westmeath, Down, Kildare, Carlow and Kerry could compete in a strong Christy Ring with the remainder in the Nicky Rackard - at least this way the second tier counties would have something to really aim for with winning the Christy Ring securing passage to the All Ireland proper for a period of 2 years with the bottom team each year in the All-Ireland dropping down assuming they had played at least two consecutive years in the top tier championship.
Realistically speaking hard to see the "old order" changing in the next five years unless Galway make a breakthrough on the back of their under-age success if not expect Kilkenny and Cork to share out the All Ireland for the forseeable future (Kilkenny more than Cork).
great championship stop being negative gimps, enjoy it while it lasts,
gipes
I don't think the Cork game was a fair reflection of where we are at the moment. We have a tendency to make a complete hames of things in the really crucial games, hence our worst performances by a country mile this year came in Cork and in the relegation playoff in Nenagh. Other than that we weren't actually that bad this year. We didn't get great results, but we didn't get that many hammerings either.
Galway would be short favourites, of course. They would also be a lot more beatable than Tipp or Cork, who we were automatically put in with.
The Munster championship should be retained, it is class, evey match is exciting and great hurling is played there. A couple of years ago, I was all for scrapping it but now I have the view that you shouldnt fix something when its not broken.
The leinster championship should be scrapped, in no way exciting any more adn to be honest, a bit of an emarassment at the moment.
I would have a munster championship & a rest of Ireland championship. Have the leinster counties along with Galway & Antrim (& possibly Down) compete in this. None of these stipulations from leinster like Galway cant get any home games (which was the reason Galway gave for not joinging leinster before before but was bizarrely ignored by the media), Just open draw, first team gets home advantage, simple.
Quote from: GalwaySham on August 27, 2007, 12:15:32 PM
None of these stipulations from leinster like Galway cant get any home games (which was the reason Galway gave for not joinging leinster before before but was bizarrely ignored by the media), Just open draw, first team gets home advantage, simple.
The Leinster championship is run on a neutral venue basis so I can see why it wasn't allowed!
Quote from: GalwaySham on August 27, 2007, 12:15:32 PM
None of these stipulations from leinster like Galway cant get any home games (which was the reason Galway gave for not joinging leinster before before but was bizarrely ignored by the media), Just open draw, first team gets home advantage, simple.
You're misinformed on this. I know for a fact that Kilkenny, Wexford and Offaly were all willing to enter into home/away arrangements with Galway, and I'm sure that Dublin would have too though I can't confirm that. The main drawback was because of the chunk of gate receipts that Galway were looking for - way in excess of anything any of the Leinster counties get, plus they also wanted a percentage of the gates from games they weren't even involved in - since it would all be higher profile due to Galways involvement don't ya know.
Galway made absolutely obscene demands last time around and that is the only reason why it all fell through.
Quote from: Lone Shark on August 27, 2007, 02:36:51 PM
Quote from: GalwaySham on August 27, 2007, 12:15:32 PM
None of these stipulations from leinster like Galway cant get any home games (which was the reason Galway gave for not joinging leinster before before but was bizarrely ignored by the media), Just open draw, first team gets home advantage, simple.
You're misinformed on this. I know for a fact that Kilkenny, Wexford and Offaly were all willing to enter into home/away arrangements with Galway, and I'm sure that Dublin would have too though I can't confirm that. The main drawback was because of the chunk of gate receipts that Galway were looking for - way in excess of anything any of the Leinster counties get, plus they also wanted a percentage of the gates from games they weren't even involved in - since it would all be higher profile due to Galways involvement don't ya know.
Galway made absolutely obscene demands last time around and that is the only reason why it all fell through.
I have to say this is not what I was told and without naming who said it to me I can say you couldn't get much higher than him in the Galway hurling board.
As ever with these things the truth is probably somewhere in between and the faint whiff of bullshit permeates everything.
I can recall that at the time in the local papers in Galway, there were hurling people from all over the county saying this was the reason they wouldnt do it.
But it was ignored by the national media.
I think Galway suggested getting some of the gate receipts from the matches they would have to play away as they would not have anything from home matches & the leinster council rejected this.
Be no problem if they were just allowed home matches.
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on August 27, 2007, 03:00:45 PM
Quote from: Lone Shark on August 27, 2007, 02:36:51 PM
Quote from: GalwaySham on August 27, 2007, 12:15:32 PM
None of these stipulations from leinster like Galway cant get any home games (which was the reason Galway gave for not joinging leinster before before but was bizarrely ignored by the media), Just open draw, first team gets home advantage, simple.
You're misinformed on this. I know for a fact that Kilkenny, Wexford and Offaly were all willing to enter into home/away arrangements with Galway, and I'm sure that Dublin would have too though I can't confirm that. The main drawback was because of the chunk of gate receipts that Galway were looking for - way in excess of anything any of the Leinster counties get, plus they also wanted a percentage of the gates from games they weren't even involved in - since it would all be higher profile due to Galways involvement don't ya know.
Galway made absolutely obscene demands last time around and that is the only reason why it all fell through.
I have to say this is not what I was told and without naming who said it to me I can say you couldn't get much higher than him in the Galway hurling board.
As ever with these things the truth is probably somewhere in between and the faint whiff of bullshit permeates everything.
The version of events I put above again comes first hand from an Offaly delegate who was involved in the discussions, but yes, I accept that people are inclined to focus on what they get upset about themselves and ignore other issues which would paint them in a less favourable light. I know he was fixated on the ridiculous idea that Galway wanted a percentage of gate receipts fom games they weren't involved in, and I think at this point the whole thing descended into farce. That certainly wasn't pulled from the ether.
Unless Galway wanted the actual Leinster Final to be part of the home and away arrangement, possibly that might have been the sticking point, and I can see then how both sides might have twisted that into (1) Galway won't do home and away and (2) Galway aren't allowed any home matches, depending on your viewpoint.