gaaboard.com

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/irish/6943993.stm

Never thought I'd see the day when Linfield players would bet abused for being Catholics.

Wonder will the Belfast Telegraph print an opinion column on this? Naw sure its only a bit of craic >:(

Ballymena fans are absolutely apoplectic about Jeffrey's allegation. Linfield fans don't appear to have heard what Jeffery claims to either.

http://www.ballymenatimes.com/sport?articleid=3108129

http://www.ballymenaunitedfc.com/news/news_2007_08_13_1.htm

MW, why would he make it up if he didnt hear it?

Otherwise what are you getting at?

Quote from: his holiness nb on August 14, 2007, 02:02:07 PM
MW, why would he make it up if he didnt hear it?

Otherwise what are you getting at?

I'm not "getting at" anything. I wasn't there. Did you read those links?

However what I will say about Jeffrey is that he's a maniacal publicity whore whose common sense such as it is appears to go out the window on matchday. And am told he gets a fair amount of personal abuse from some in the Ballymena support. If it came down to believing him or the various Ballymena fans of my acquaintance, I know who I'd believe about what actually happened..

A few comments from Ballymena fans on ILF:

-----------------------
News Letter (and Alex Mills) - hang your heads in shame. That story is pure lies, I was in the Upper tier for the entire game and did not hear a single sectarian remark never mind a chant. I cannot understand Jeffrey's allegation at all, it simply never happened. Yes, he has been on the receiving end of personal abuse from BUFC fans before but to brand our fans as sectarian bigots is totally unacceptable and action MUST be taken against him for defamation and the News Letter for publishing this garbage (which I understand has already been mentioned on radio this morning).

----------------------------------
I was absolutely gobsmacked this morning when I read on the back page of the Newletter that Jeffrey has labelled the BUFC fans as sectarian. What an absolute crock of shite. He said that we called his team a 'bunch of fenians' and that this was confirmed by some of the Linfield fans. Bollix of the highest order. I am seething as I type this, as this type of lies by Jeffrey is defammation of our club and I hope our board persue an apology, at the least, from this clown. Our fans sung 'your just a bunch of bigots' to the Linfield crowd in the Kop Stand. Obviously Jeffrey saw this as a perfect excuse to try and get BUFC fans back for some of the personal abuse that has been dished out to him over the years.


-------------------

I really don't know what to say that hasnt already been said about this but it's ridiculous, i hope our club makes an official response and i buy the newsletter daily and will not lift the paper again until this pish it retracted.
-----------------------------

I also was in the upper tier and the only abuse i heard was directed at paul brown (might i add by the same people who were praising him one minute and slagging him the next - make up your minds)
----------------------------

And some from Linfield fans:

---------------------
From my seat in the South Stand I heard nothing but a couple of songs associated with English teams "Blue Moon" and "I'm for ever blowing bubbles". Seems a very strange thing to take to the press, if it's not verifiable.
---------------------

For the record I didn't hear anything out of the ordinary, and I was in the kop stand.
----------------------

As I say I wasn't there, I'm looking at the accounts from those who were

I was at the match on saturday and i can assure everybody ballymena fans didnt make any secterian comments indeed they sang your only a bunch of bigots at the linfield fans.David Jeffery has had a pick against ballymena fans since they sang songs about his private life.

Will Jeffrey lose a lot of credibility if it's proved that he's lying? i've always seen him as a great manager and thought he'd try his luck in england at some point. Despite whats been said i can't see the motivation for him to make it up. In fairness to teams like Linfield. its great to see catholics playing for them. It'd be sad for this story to be true.

Quote from: inisceithleann on August 14, 2007, 02:30:50 PM
Will Jeffrey lose a lot of credibility if it's proved that he's lying?

It's always hard to prove a negative, unfortunately for Ballymena United. As for losing credibility, his abaility as a manager woulnd't be questioned because of this and many IL fans outside Linfield would see him as a bit of a headcase at times anyway.

Quote
i've always seen him as a great manager and thought he'd try his luck in england at some point.

I wouldn't go that far!

QuoteDespite whats been said i can't see the motivation for him to make it up.

He could be smarting over the personal abuse he's got. He has a track record here. A few years ago, and having been on the receiving end of plenty personal abuse from Glentoran fans, and after a Big Two match in which his team lost in injury time, an altercation broke out in the 'tunnel' on the way into the changing rooms. Jeffrey got his spoke in first and went to the Telegraph with how he'd been assaulted by Glentoran supporters, he was always getting threats and abuse, etc. It was only the Newsletter that printed a more balanced story, giving the 'other side' freely aired over the internet that one of Jeffrey's players had actually broken one of the perspex panels in the tunnel and Jeffrey had come storming back down the tunnel to get involved in the altercation. Jeffrey's 'first strike' in the Tele meant that whatever the truth, the version which 'stuck' was his.

Quote
In fairness to teams like Linfield. its great to see catholics playing for them. It'd be sad for this story to be true.

Agreed.

So all round denial that it happened so.

No, "If it did happen its terrible" or anything like that.
Just a rush to discredit the guy who made the allegations.
So a few people who were there say they didnt hear it and that means it didnt happen???

Or are the moral standards in that league so low that a manager of the top team would lie about sectarian abuse his players receive??

I find it funny how all the NI soccer contigent rush to say it didnt happen, or it probably didnt happen, or that the manager isnt to be believed when they are quick to jump on the GAA when something similar happens with Darren Graham and everyone on here A) takes Darrens word for it and B) supports him and hopes this sort of carry on is cut out.

Have the moral high horses bolted?  ;)

Quote from: inisceithleann on August 14, 2007, 02:30:50 PM
Will Jeffrey lose a lot of credibility if it's proved that he's lying? i've always seen him as a great manager and thought he'd try his luck in england at some point. Despite whats been said i can't see the motivation for him to make it up. In fairness to teams like Linfield. its great to see catholics playing for them. It'd be sad for this story to be true.

:D

 I think theres no reason why jeffrey couldn't make it in england. Why is this such a ridiculous suggestion? some of the managers in the lower leagues in england are awful, sure even roddy collins give it a go, as bad as he turned out to be. he's had incredible success at linfield and with a decent budget could do a decent job. with stephen kenny going to scotland a lot of clubs are copping on to the ability of managers this side of the irish sea.

Quote from: his holiness nb on August 14, 2007, 02:40:49 PM
So all round denial that it happened so.

Certainly from those who were there I haven't come across anyone saying it did happen, apart from Mr Jeffrey.

Quote
No, "If it did happen its terrible" or anything like that.

See my post above.

Quote
Just a rush to discredit the guy who made the allegations.

I can't stand Jeffrey and have a number of bones to pick with him over previous publicity whoring. So shoot me.

Quote
So a few people who were there say they didnt hear it and that means it didnt happen???

Far more than "a few" - and not just saying they didn't hear it, many adamant it simply didn't happen. The fact that the Ballymena fans are so outraged at this allegation tells a tale too.

And I would have thought that given the dugouts are in front of the South Stand, and the Ballymena fans were in the North Stand, someone among the supporters would have picked up on a chant (worse than Rangers... ::)) apart from Mr Jeffrey.

Quote
Or are the moral standards in that league so low that a manager of the top team would lie about sectarian abuse his players receive??

Don't be so silly. Jeffrey's media prounouncements have bugger all to do with the "moral standards ::) in that league", whatever that's supposed to mean.

Quote
I find it funny how all the NI soccer contigent rush to say it didnt happen, or it probably didnt happen,

"All the NI soccer contingent"?? What the bloody hell are you gibbering on about? (Myself and Tony hawks?)

Quote
or that the manager isnt to be believed when they are quick to jump on the GAA when something similar happens with Darren Graham and everyone on here A) takes Darrens word for it and B) supports him and hopes this sort of carry on is cut out.

First thing. Where in the fame of good feck did I "jump on the GAA" ??? And where did I "take Darren's word for it" instead of listening what people had to say? (Did Tony hawks either I wonder?) And where were the vociferous denials that it took place?

Quote
Have the moral high horses bolted?  ;)

I've always been consistent about my abhorrence of sectarianism. I don't know who's looking for a "moral high horse".

Rather than post all the previous waffle why didnt you just say "100% right his holiness, well said".

Woudl have saved time  ;)

Quote from: inisceithleann on August 14, 2007, 02:46:30 PM
I think theres no reason why jeffrey couldn't make it in england. Why is this such a ridiculous suggestion? some of the managers in the lower leagues in england are awful, sure even roddy collins give it a go, as bad as he turned out to be. he's had incredible success at linfield and with a decent budget could do a decent job. with stephen kenny going to scotland a lot of clubs are copping on to the ability of managers this side of the irish sea.

Didn't say it was a ridiculous suggestion but couldn't see it happening. Yes, he's had incredible success at Linfield but the funds they have had in comparision to other league irish clubs is massive, in the context of the irish league of course. I'm sure even I could motivate the players and devise some sort of tactical plan to defeat teams such as Armagh City, Larne and Donegal Celtic!!!

Quote from: his holiness nb on August 14, 2007, 02:58:16 PM
Rather than post all the previous waffle why didnt you just say "100% right his holiness, well said".

Woudl have saved time  ;)

Yes, but it would also have been basically the polar opposite of what I meant...

Quote from: tintin25 on August 14, 2007, 02:58:27 PM

Quote from: inisceithleann on August 14, 2007, 02:46:30 PM
I think theres no reason why jeffrey couldn't make it in england. Why is this such a ridiculous suggestion? some of the managers in the lower leagues in england are awful, sure even roddy collins give it a go, as bad as he turned out to be. he's had incredible success at linfield and with a decent budget could do a decent job. with stephen kenny going to scotland a lot of clubs are copping on to the ability of managers this side of the irish sea.

Didn't say it was a ridiculous suggestion but couldn't see it happening. Yes, he's had incredible success at Linfield but the funds they have had in comparision to other league irish clubs is massive, in the context of the irish league of course. I'm sure even I could motivate the players and devise some sort of tactical plan to defeat teams such as Armagh City, Larne and Donegal Celtic!!!

I couldn't see David Jeffrey making it in the English leagues but who knows. I think he's suited to being manager of a "big fish in a small pond" and he has no experience of full-time management.

Quote from: MW on August 14, 2007, 02:59:33 PM

Quote from: his holiness nb on August 14, 2007, 02:58:16 PM
Rather than post all the previous waffle why didnt you just say "100% right his holiness, well said".

Woudl have saved time  ;)

Yes, but it would also have been basically the polar opposite of what I meant...

Now you are catching on  ;)

Allegations of sectarian abuse made by Fermanagh GAA Player...instantly believed by OWC

Allegations of sectarian abuse made by Irish League manager...instantly rubbished by OWC

Where is the consistency? I think we know the answer....

Quote from: T Fearon on August 14, 2007, 03:22:36 PM
Allegations of sectarian abuse made by Fermanagh GAA Player...instantly believed by OWC

Allegations of sectarian abuse made by Irish League manager...instantly rubbished by OWC

Where is the consistency? I think we know the answer....

So now apparently I personify OWC? ??? How so? (Niether did I 'rubbish' Jeffrey's allegations - I pointd out Ballymena fans' outraged reaction)

When did I "instantly believe" what Darren Graham said? (When did scores of eyewitnesses come out to vociferously deny it, too?)

Wierd. You're getting worse, Tony...

MW = Sammy G ?

No.

Well it seems quite plausible to me that (a) Darren Graham did suffer sectarian abuse and (b) this Jeffrey character is a bit of a looper and is making shit up.

Just my tuppence worth.

Quote from: his holiness nb on August 14, 2007, 03:39:16 PM
MW = Sammy G ?

No MW doesn't do that stupid quote every line at a time and then reply to it by saywing Lie or Where or Have you proof of that

Quote from: Deal_Me_In on August 14, 2007, 04:31:36 PM

Quote from: his holiness nb on August 14, 2007, 03:39:16 PM
MW = Sammy G ?

No MW doesn't do that stupid quote every line at a time and then reply to it by saywing Lie or Where or Have you proof of that

Theres one quite like that on the first page of this thread, thats what got me thinking.
Probably not him though I do agree.

Quote from: 5iveTimes on August 14, 2007, 04:22:56 PM
Shock Horror, allegations of sectarianism in NI Soccer.
Shock Horror, the ususal suspects are very quick to defend NI Soccer.

Funny enough, when I saw you'd commented on this thread, I though "Well along with his holiness nb that's the both two usual suspects now posting with their inane crap". (FFS it's basically a single transferable post from either of you at this stage on these threads, it's so predictable and insubstantial - and his holiness's are no better).

Have you some sort of problem with me sharing Ballymena fans' reaction to Jeffrey's allegations?

Quote from: his holiness nb on August 14, 2007, 04:34:17 PM

Quote from: Deal_Me_In on August 14, 2007, 04:31:36 PM

Quote from: his holiness nb on August 14, 2007, 03:39:16 PM
MW = Sammy G ?

No MW doesn't do that stupid quote every line at a time and then reply to it by saywing Lie or Where or Have you proof of that

Theres one quite like that on the first page of this thread, thats what got me thinking.
Probably not him though I do agree.

You talked crap about me, I asked you to back it up, you couldn't even try to do so.

All very boring and predictable by now. ::)

Quote from: his holiness nb on August 14, 2007, 02:40:49 PM
I find it funny how all the NI soccer contigent rush to say it didnt happen, or it probably didnt happen, or that the manager isnt to be believed when they are quick to jump on the GAA when something similar happens with Darren Graham and everyone on here A) takes Darrens word for it and B) supports him and hopes this sort of carry on is cut out.

Quote from: T Fearon on August 14, 2007, 03:22:36 PM
Allegations of sectarian abuse made by Fermanagh GAA Player...instantly believed by OWC

Allegations of sectarian abuse made by Irish League manager...instantly rubbished by OWC

Where is the consistency? I think we know the answer....

Quote from: 5iveTimes on August 14, 2007, 04:22:56 PM
Shock Horror, allegations of sectarianism in NI Soccer.
Shock Horror, the ususal suspects are very quick to defend NI Soccer.

Guys, this is a very odd and slightly disturbing mindset all three of you are exhibiting.

I am not a collective and never have been. Attribute my comments to me and me alone. I do not speak for anyone but myself. And have the decency not to attribute anyone else's comments to be or claim I've said things that I haven't.

'Themmuns' aren't just some amorphous, interchangeable mass, is that clear?

Quote from: 5iveTimes on August 14, 2007, 04:41:05 PM

Quote from: MW on August 14, 2007, 04:34:36 PM
[Have you some sort of problem with me sharing Ballymena fans' reaction to Jeffrey's allegations?

I have no problem with your views on Jeffreys or Ballymena.
All I am saying that it is not the first time the Irish League or NI Football in general has had allegations of sectarianism and of course the usual apologists are quick to jump on the bandwagon to deny anything ever happens.
It doesnt really bother me one way or the other. I support neither team.

What "bandwagon"? When the hell have I ever denied "anything ever happens"? What on earth am I an "apologist" for? ???

I know you don't like eyewitness accounts throwing the cold light of day on allegations. Tough. I make no apology for sharing Ballymena fans' accounts.

And far from "denying" anything, I've said I wasn't there and don't know. I've given some of the evidence at my disposal and said who I'd believe.

Quote from: MW on August 14, 2007, 04:34:36 PM
Funny enough, when I saw you'd commented on this thread, I though "Well along with his holiness nb that's the both two usual suspects now posting with their inane crap". (FFS it's basically a single transferable post from either of you at this stage on these threads, it's so predictable and insubstantial - and his holiness's are no better).

Have you some sort of problem with me sharing Ballymena fans' reaction to Jeffrey's allegations?

"the usual suspects"  ::)
Why not just say "themmuns"  ::)

My point was how curious it was that instead of saying "well if the allegations are true its terrible BUT....." then go on it would have been more balanced that straight away post "eye witness" accounts of people saying it never happened and questioning the creditibility of the accusor.

Just the acceptance that its a possibility that this happened would have said a lot for you rather than blind denial of an incident said to have happened at a game you said yourself you werent at.
I'm not saying it happened either, but lets at least accept it may have happened.

And before you start, no you didnt say it didnt happen, but your posts were clearly suggesting this without you having to make a statement of fact that might come back to embarrass you.

MW, if pointing this out is "inane crap" then I really give up on you, I'm just saying lets be balanced here.

Then again seeing as I am one of the "usual suspects" then maybe you had decided it was "inane crap" before even reading it.

Quote from: his holiness nb on August 14, 2007, 04:49:03 PM
"the usual suspects"  ::)
Why not just say "themmuns"  ::)

Because I mean two individual people - you and 5ivetimes. I don't look on people as interchangeable members of some giant collective as some not too far away in cyberspace appear to.

Quote
My point was how curious it was that instead of saying "well if the allegations are true its terrible BUT....." then go on it would have been more balanced that straight away post "eye witness" accounts of people saying it never happened and questioning the creditibility of the accusor.

I've agreed it would be sad if this were true.

Quote
Just the acceptance that its a possibility that this happened would have said a lot for you rather than blind denial of an incident said to have happened at a game you said yourself you werent at.
I'm not saying it happened either, but lets at least accept it may have happened.

Where exactly did I make this "blind denial", or indeed any sort of denial? ::) Learn to read, FFS.

Quote
And before you start, no you didnt say it didnt happen, but your posts were clearly suggesting this without you having to make a statement of fact that might come back to embarrass you.

I ackowledged this was a two-sided story (unlike the original poster who simply presented Jeffrey's allegations as fact), said which side I'd tend to believe on this one, and why. Can't say fairer than that, really...

QuoteMW, if pointing this out is "inane crap" then I really give up on you, I'm just saying lets be balanced here.

See what I've just said above on 'balance'.

Quote
Then again seeing as I am one of the "usual suspects" then maybe you had decided it was "inane crap" before even reading it.

See below for the sort of inane crap I'm talking about.

Inane crap ?

(http://ganjataz.com/general-bollocks/images/by-GT/forum-shitz/pot-kettle-black.jpg)

Quote from: MW on August 14, 2007, 04:41:22 PM

Quote from: his holiness nb on August 14, 2007, 02:40:49 PM
I find it funny how all the NI soccer contigent rush to say it didnt happen, or it probably didnt happen, or that the manager isnt to be believed when they are quick to jump on the GAA when something similar happens with Darren Graham and everyone on here A) takes Darrens word for it and B) supports him and hopes this sort of carry on is cut out.

Quote from: T Fearon on August 14, 2007, 03:22:36 PM
Allegations of sectarian abuse made by Fermanagh GAA Player...instantly believed by OWC

Allegations of sectarian abuse made by Irish League manager...instantly rubbished by OWC

Where is the consistency? I think we know the answer....

Quote from: 5iveTimes on August 14, 2007, 04:22:56 PM
Shock Horror, allegations of sectarianism in NI Soccer.
Shock Horror, the ususal suspects are very quick to defend NI Soccer.

Guys, this is a very odd and slightly disturbing mindset all three of you are exhibiting.

I am not a collective and never have been. Attribute my comments to me and me alone. I do not speak for anyone but myself. And have the decency not to attribute anyone else's comments to be or claim I've said things that I haven't.

'Themmuns' aren't just some amorphous, interchangeable mass, is that clear?

The stuff I've quoted from you, Tony and to some extent 5ivetimes in my post above is exactly the sort of inane crap I'm talking about.

It's twofold really - firstly, the talk of me as some sort of collective. As if I'm speaking for "OWC" or "all the NI soccer contingent". And the attributing to me of comments and actions I haven't made.

And secondly, the completely prdictable response from yourself and 5ivetimes. Tony makes an allegation. I try to add some context and give a fuller picture. Then you and/or 5times rush in with "you're denying it, I'm not surprised, you're an apologist" type stuff. Every. Bloody. Time. And it adds precisely zero to the discussion.

Quote from: his holiness nb on August 14, 2007, 05:03:55 PM
Inane crap ?

(http://ganjataz.com/general-bollocks/images/by-GT/forum-shitz/pot-kettle-black.jpg)

That was quite brilliant, given that I'd ended with "See below for the sort of inane crap I'm talking about". I actually meant my next post which I was about to type, but you've illustrated it perfectly. Why can't you actually try to address (or shock horror even take on board) what I've said, answer what I've asked you, instead of posting "filler" posts which add nothing to any discussion and are the forum equivalent of bunging sawdust in a food product?

Quote from: 5iveTimes on August 14, 2007, 05:07:27 PM
MW is this you?

(http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/1306567/2/istockphoto_1306567_cant_see.jpg)

And another one! Your timing is perfect! As I said to his holiness...

Quote from: MW on August 14, 2007, 05:08:11 PM
Why can't you actually try to address (or shock horror even take on board) what I've said, answer what I've asked you, instead of posting "filler" posts which add nothing to any discussion and are the forum equivalent of bunging sawdust in a food product?

Against my better judgement, however, I'm going to try to drag you kicking and screaming back into a proper discussion using that very post. (for my next trick, I'll turn water into wine...) What am I supposed to be refusing to see?

Valid points were made, and you didnt like them so you attack the poster and call every post you dont like "predicable" and "inane crap"

I'll tell you what was very predictable, when the thread was started it was very predicable that an NI Fan would come on either showing something to suggest it was untrue or post up a similar incident from "the other side".

That was 100% predictable, and if you think it was predictable that someone pointed this out when it happened well you are right.
Predictable isnt always a bad thing MW  ;)

Quote from: MW on August 14, 2007, 05:08:11 PM
Why can't you actually try to address (or shock horror even take on board) what I've said, answer what I've asked you, instead of posting "filler" posts which add nothing to any discussion and are the forum equivalent of bunging sawdust in a food product?

Ok, so what "answers" do you want?

Quote from: his holiness nb on August 14, 2007, 05:12:01 PM
Valid points were made, and you didnt like them so you attack the poster and call every post you dont like "predicable" and "inane crap"

I have addressed the points you have made. I have made my own points in response and asked you questions. In return you have refused to answer my points and questions, and have instead come back with your 'sawdust' posts.

Quote
I'll tell you what was very predictable, when the thread was started it was very predicable that an NI Fan would come on either showing something to suggest it was untrue or post up a similar incident from "the other side".

I'm not in the business of denying any sectarian incident that took place did, nor in the business of making categorical statements about events I wasn't an eyewitness to. Do you have some problem with me adding balance to the original, one-sided, post. Do you have a problem with both sides of the story getting a hearing?

Quote
That was 100% predictable, and if you think it was predictable that someone pointed this out when it happened well you are right.
Predictable isnt always a bad thing MW  ;)

Ity is when instead of choosing to look at the issue, instead you choose to attack someone providing balance and evidence, as if by doing tat very thing they're going something wrong. You've done it over and over. It's become, as I've said above, almost a single transferable post.

Quote from: MW on August 14, 2007, 05:20:07 PM

Quote from: his holiness nb on August 14, 2007, 05:12:01 PM
Valid points were made, and you didnt like them so you attack the poster and call every post you dont like "predicable" and "inane crap"

I have addressed the points you have made. I have made my own points in response and asked you questions. In return you have refused to answer my points and questions, and have instead come back with your 'sawdust' posts.

This is what I mean by the above:

Quote from: MW on August 14, 2007, 02:54:45 PM

Quote from: his holiness nb on August 14, 2007, 02:40:49 PM
So all round denial that it happened so.

Certainly from those who were there I haven't come across anyone saying it did happen, apart from Mr Jeffrey.

Quote
No, "If it did happen its terrible" or anything like that.

See my post above.

Quote
Just a rush to discredit the guy who made the allegations.

I can't stand Jeffrey and have a number of bones to pick with him over previous publicity whoring. So shoot me.

Quote
So a few people who were there say they didnt hear it and that means it didnt happen???

Far more than "a few" - and not just saying they didn't hear it, many adamant it simply didn't happen. The fact that the Ballymena fans are so outraged at this allegation tells a tale too.

And I would have thought that given the dugouts are in front of the South Stand, and the Ballymena fans were in the North Stand, someone among the supporters would have picked up on a chant (worse than Rangers... ::)) apart from Mr Jeffrey.

Quote
Or are the moral standards in that league so low that a manager of the top team would lie about sectarian abuse his players receive??

Don't be so silly. Jeffrey's media prounouncements have bugger all to do with the "moral standards ::) in that league", whatever that's supposed to mean.

Quote
I find it funny how all the NI soccer contigent rush to say it didnt happen, or it probably didnt happen,

"All the NI soccer contingent"?? What the bloody hell are you gibbering on about? (Myself and Tony hawks?)

Quote
or that the manager isnt to be believed when they are quick to jump on the GAA when something similar happens with Darren Graham and everyone on here A) takes Darrens word for it and B) supports him and hopes this sort of carry on is cut out.

First thing. Where in the fame of good feck did I "jump on the GAA" ??? And where did I "take Darren's word for it" instead of listening what people had to say? (Did Tony hawks either I wonder?) And where were the vociferous denials that it took place?

Quote
Have the moral high horses bolted?  ;)

I've always been consistent about my abhorrence of sectarianism. I don't know who's looking for a "moral high horse".

To which you replied...

Quote from: his holiness nb on August 14, 2007, 02:58:16 PM
Rather than post all the previous waffle why didnt you just say "100% right his holiness, well said".

Woudl have saved time  ;)

And:

Quote from: MW on August 14, 2007, 04:55:46 PM

Quote from: his holiness nb on August 14, 2007, 04:49:03 PM
"the usual suspects"  ::)
Why not just say "themmuns"  ::)

Because I mean two individual people - you and 5ivetimes. I don't look on people as interchangeable members of some giant collective as some not too far away in cyberspace appear to.

Quote
My point was how curious it was that instead of saying "well if the allegations are true its terrible BUT....." then go on it would have been more balanced that straight away post "eye witness" accounts of people saying it never happened and questioning the creditibility of the accusor.

I've agreed it would be sad if this were true.

Quote
Just the acceptance that its a possibility that this happened would have said a lot for you rather than blind denial of an incident said to have happened at a game you said yourself you werent at.
I'm not saying it happened either, but lets at least accept it may have happened.

Where exactly did I make this "blind denial", or indeed any sort of denial? ::) Learn to read, FFS.

Quote
And before you start, no you didnt say it didnt happen, but your posts were clearly suggesting this without you having to make a statement of fact that might come back to embarrass you.

I ackowledged this was a two-sided story (unlike the original poster who simply presented Jeffrey's allegations as fact), said which side I'd tend to believe on this one, and why. Can't say fairer than that, really...

QuoteMW, if pointing this out is "inane crap" then I really give up on you, I'm just saying lets be balanced here.

See what I've just said above on 'balance'.

Quote
Then again seeing as I am one of the "usual suspects" then maybe you had decided it was "inane crap" before even reading it.

See below for the sort of inane crap I'm talking about.

To which you replied:

Quote from: his holiness nb on August 14, 2007, 05:03:55 PM
Inane crap ?

(http://ganjataz.com/general-bollocks/images/by-GT/forum-shitz/pot-kettle-black.jpg)

Was there a point to that last post?

Quote from: 5iveTimes on August 14, 2007, 05:14:22 PM

Quote from: MW on August 14, 2007, 05:10:55 PM
[What am I supposed to be refusing to see?

You simply refuse to see that sectarianism exists in NI soccer,

This is quite simply rubbish. I have never said anything of the sort. Quite the opposite in fact.

Quote
wether or not this incident happened in the Ballymena v Linfield game is totally irrelevant, whereas you where very quick to jump on the Darren Graham bandwagon.

This is just as much rubbish as your last point. My comment on the Darren Graham affair was five pages into the "GAA is sectarian or people are wankers" thread, it was short and was I think the only comment I made:

Quote from: MW on August 01, 2007, 05:53:28 PM

Quote from: Chrisowc on August 01, 2007, 04:29:55 PM
A sad reflection on Northern Ireland life in general unfortunately of which most of us I'm sure have been on the recieving end at one time or another.

Quote from: Solomon Kane on August 01, 2007, 04:43:04 PM
I have some sympathy with some GAA people here. I know myself what it is like to have a whole group of people demonised because of the actions of a minority and his case may well be no different. Fair play to the lad for his courage in taking up the game, and in talking to the media with his story afterwards. I hope things are in a position someday that he can re-start his GAA career.

I'd agree with these comments.

What the hell is going on in your head??

Can you really not distinguish individuals from among some sort of colleactive of various posters you have fixed in your mind? Do you see whatever you want to see regardless of what I actually post?? ???

The world has tilted a bit in recent days.
alleged accusation of bigotry directed against Linfields catholics, Glasgow Rangers complain to Uefa about their players getting racial abuse.

Now the Kerry Dublin AI SF pairing has that refreshing look of normality restored.

Quote from: his holiness nb on August 14, 2007, 05:25:25 PM
Was there a point to that last post?

Modified now to sort out the quoting etc.

Quote from: MW on August 14, 2007, 05:35:22 PM

Quote from: his holiness nb on August 14, 2007, 05:25:25 PM
Was there a point to that last post?

Modified now to sort out the quoting etc.

Are you going to tell me the questions you want answered?
I'm not going to indulge you and waste my time reading back through that!  ::)

It'll be the morning at this stage  ;)

You should start by saying why you referred to me,  or me and Tony hawks, as "all the NI soccer contingent".

You could answer this: Where in the fame of good feck did I "jump on the GAA" ? And where did I "take Darren's word for it" instead of listening what people had to say? (Did Tony hawks either I wonder?)

And this: Where exactly did I make this "blind denial", or indeed any sort of denial?

Quote from: MW on August 14, 2007, 02:11:27 PM

Quote from: his holiness nb on August 14, 2007, 02:02:07 PM
MW, why would he make it up if he didnt hear it?

Otherwise what are you getting at?

I'm not "getting at" anything. I wasn't there. Did you read those links?

However what I will say about Jeffrey is that he's a maniacal publicity whore whose common sense such as it is appears to go out the window on matchday. And am told he gets a fair amount of personal abuse from some in the Ballymena support. If it came down to believing him or the various Ballymena fans of my acquaintance, I know who I'd believe about what actually happened..


Wow, I am seeing a pattern here. Any time anyone says anything negative about an IFA club they get lambasted and the personal abuse toward them reaches unforseen heights. Derek Dougan got stick and Neil Lennon was branded a liar on the owc website.
Feckit Holly aged 8 from kent was told on owc that she needed to learn some manners and the class acts over there even questioned her parents parenting skills and all because of a perceived slight and the fact she wona prize on blue peter.

I applaud this man for having the stones to report this abuse given the history of retribution the 'fans' of IFA have meted out in the past.

SHAME OWC SHAME!!!!!!!!

That was exactly the type of post I've been talking about for the last few pages.

Quote from: MW on August 14, 2007, 05:42:20 PM
You should start by saying why you referred to me,  or me and Tony hawks, as "all the NI soccer contingent".

You are obviously not "all the Ni soccer contingent" I meant all the contributors to this thread from the NI Soccer community.

Quote from: MW on August 14, 2007, 05:42:20 PM
You could answer this: Where in the fame of good feck did I "jump on the GAA" ? And where did I "take Darren's word for it" instead of listening what people had to say? (Did Tony hawks either I wonder?)

I was referring to the Darren Graham thread when the NI soccer crowd jumped to attack the GAA with glee while we (the GAA fans) all condemned what happened.
I dont believe I mentioned you here.

Regarding "taking Darrens word for it" again you have misread the post.
I said "everyone on here" as in the GAA regulars took his word for it. Again you werent mentioned in that phrase at all (stop being so self important  ;) )
It was to emphasize the point that we werent instintively inclined to presume a statement like Darrens would be made for any other
reason that to tell the truth.

I just think the differences in reaction from both sides on these two similar accusations are telling.

Quote from: MW on August 14, 2007, 05:42:20 PM
And this: Where exactly did I make this "blind denial", or indeed any sort of denial?

You posted reports from the alleged "guilty party" (its not unusual to plead not guilty  ;) ) denying this happened and said you would be inclined to believe them rather than Jeffreys.
I've already said you didnt say that it "didnt happen" more so suggested it.
Just in case the facts turned out to prove you wrong I would guess.

But I suppose my answers are inane crap eh ?

Quote from: stew on August 14, 2007, 05:56:02 PM

Quote from: MW on August 14, 2007, 02:11:27 PM

Quote from: his holiness nb on August 14, 2007, 02:02:07 PM
MW, why would he make it up if he didnt hear it?

Otherwise what are you getting at?

I'm not "getting at" anything. I wasn't there. Did you read those links?

However what I will say about Jeffrey is that he's a maniacal publicity whore whose common sense such as it is appears to go out the window on matchday. And am told he gets a fair amount of personal abuse from some in the Ballymena support. If it came down to believing him or the various Ballymena fans of my acquaintance, I know who I'd believe about what actually happened..


Wow, I am seeing a pattern here. Any time anyone says anything negative about an IFA club they get lambasted and the personal abuse toward them reaches unforseen heights. Derek Dougan got stick and Neil Lennon was branded a liar on the owc website.
Feckit Holly aged 8 from kent was told on owc that she needed to learn some manners and the class acts over there even questioned her parents parenting skills and all because of a perceived slight and the fact she wona prize on blue peter.

I applaud this man for having the stones to report this abuse given the history of retribution the 'fans' of IFA have meted out in the past.

SHAME OWC SHAME!!!!!!!!

Let's try and break this down a little, stew.

1 - Do you recognise that I'm an individual and not part of some giant undifferented collective mass?
2 - Do you recognise that it's actually no bad thing to provide balance given the one-sided nature of Tony's original post and that the view of Ballymena fans (and indeed those Linfield fans who were nonplussed by the allegations) should not just be suppressed because it doesn't suit Fearon's agenda.
3 - Do you have any opinion to offer at all on the outraged reaction of the Ballymena fans?
4 - Do you realise that there isn't some sort of wierd genetic memory going on where all posters on OWC are responsible for someone's comments about "Holly from Kent" (that's one longstanding obsession you've got there, by the way, fella), and that I'm not actually therefore in any way responsible for it?
5 - Do you realise that I've given Neil Lennon no abuse at all, personal or otherwise?
6 - Do you recognise that possibly I have a longstanding dislike for David Jeffrey and several reasons for it?
7 - Can you get it into your head that the IFA doesn't have "fans"?
8 - Do you even pick up the foolishness of "Any time anyone says anything negative about an IFA club they get lambasted" given that what people are actually saying is negative about an Irish League manager?

I knew before making my first post on this thread what would happen. But I wouldn't let petty prejudiced fool stop me having my say.

It is as I've said predictable. Tony makes an allegation - or in this case presents an allegation as fact when it's hotly disputed, and angrily denied by the entire Ballymena support. I point out what the Ballymena fans think.

I then come under fire from various posters, regular posters, for all the 'crimes' of any 'OWCer' they can think of, labelled an 'apologist' and its claimed I want to cover up sectarianism and deny it takes place.

The same old pattern, repeated with me and whoever else sticks their head above the parapet.

Stop playing the victim MW, nobody is buying it.
You, Sammy, Evil Genius, Gwelytah are all welcome here and nobody has suggested otherwise.
So this "repeated with me and whoever else sticks their head above the parapet" shite is just that, shite.

Or must we agree with you to prove we arent bigoted  ::)

Quote from: his holiness nb on August 14, 2007, 05:59:27 PM

Quote from: MW on August 14, 2007, 05:42:20 PM
You should start by saying why you referred to me,  or me and Tony hawks, as "all the NI soccer contingent".

You are obviously not "all the Ni soccer contingent" I meant all the contributors to this thread from the NI Soccer community.

Two posters? ???

Quote from: MW on August 14, 2007, 05:42:20 PM
You could answer this: Where in the fame of good feck did I "jump on the GAA" ? And where did I "take Darren's word for it" instead of listening what people had to say? (Did Tony hawks either I wonder?)

I was referring to the Darren Graham thread when the NI soccer crowd jumped to attack the GAA {/quote]

Did they indeed? Don't remember that :-\

Quote
with glee while we (the GAA fans) all condemned what happened.
I dont believe I mentioned you here.

So let me get this right. When referring to "all the NI soccer contingent", you mean what I and one other poster said. Then you take what some other posters may have said, label them "the NI soccer contingent" and come up with the sentence:

"I find it funny how all the NI soccer contigent rush to say it didnt happen, or it probably didnt happen, or that the manager isnt to be believed when they are quick to jump on the GAA when something similar happens with Darren Graham"

(Then you tell me you don't believe you mentioned me!). Now you see what I was saying about individuals and collectives? You refer to me and another poster as a "contingent", then say this "contingent" does something else which I'm not conncted to (and I don't think the pther poster is either), because of what you think some other posters have said. Utterly illogical.

Quote
Regarding "taking Darrens word for it" again you have misread the post.
I said "everyone on here" as in the GAA regulars took his word for it. Again you werent mentioned in that phrase at all (stop being so self important  ;) )
It was to emphasize the point that we werent instintively inclined to presume a statement like Darrens would be made for any other
reason that to tell the truth.

Do you really think that's the same situation? Why exactly would I "take David Jeffrey's word for it" given he's alleged that mass singing took place across a football stadium, and many, many Ballymena fans have reacted in outrage to say it didn't happen? (Never mind the Linfield fans who have said they didn't hear any such thing). Think now. Do you really think that's the same situation as the Darren Graham incident? What should I just take Jeffrey's word for it given those accused (hundreds of people) vociferously deny the allegation?

By the way, did you know of Darren Graham's character before the incident? Was he someone who you knew to have form in manipulating stories for media coverage, or for letting his emotions get the better of his on matchday (to the extent he would see and hear what he wanted)? Did the possibility of simple mis-hearing come into the equation in Graham's case? Of course not.

Quote
I just think the differences in reaction from both sides on these two similar accusations are telling.

I think they illustrate the difference between a player claiming he's been given abuse by other individuals on multiple occasions, and a manager claiming a chant took place across a stadium from a quarter where hundres of people deny there was any such thing :-\

Quote

Quote from: MW on August 14, 2007, 05:42:20 PM
And this: Where exactly did I make this "blind denial", or indeed any sort of denial?

You posted reports from the alleged "guilty party" (its not unusual to plead not guilty  ;) ) denying this happened and said you would be inclined to believe them rather than Jeffreys.
I've already said you didnt say that it "didnt happen" more so suggested it.
Just in case the facts turned out to prove you wrong I would guess.

No, not "just in case" anything - because I wasn't there and don't have the facts, only an opinion and the accounts of others.

It's really quite simple. On the one hand I have the account of David Jeffrey, who I know to be a bit of a headcase, and who I iknow to have 'form' in terms of getting an inaccurate stry about opposition fans out in the media.

On the other I have the accounts of several Ballymena fans, some of whom I know personally. And they haven't just denied it, they're outraged and have demended their club take legal action. I've also seen the bemused reaction of some Linfield fans to the claim that such a chant took place, since they were in the same or a better position to Jeffrey to hear it, and didn't.

So yes my opinion would be that the 'Ballymena' version is more likely to be true. You can at least agree it deserves to be heard.

You didnt understand my post at all, I give up  ::)

t

Quote from: his holiness nb on August 14, 2007, 06:30:22 PM
Stop playing the victim MW, nobody is buying it.
You, Sammy, Evil Genius, Gwelytah are all welcome here and nobody has suggested otherwise.
So this "repeated with me and whoever else sticks their head above the parapet" shite is just that, shite.

Read back over this thread. I've been called an "apologist". I've been told I've denied sectarianism exists where I haven't. I've been told I jumped on the Darren Graham issue when I didn't. I've been held to account for what a random poster says on OWC. I've been labelled as 'OWC' as if I personify a website or the NI support. I along with another poster have been referred to as a "contingent", a "contingent" which has then been labelled as having done something which completely different individuals were involved in.

That's suggesting otherwise than that I'm welcome (and it's only a few posters - most have been fine with me).

Quote
Or must we agree with you to prove we arent bigoted  ::)

That's just my point. It seems for some, you included, I must agree or I'm an apologist, covering up sectarianism, etc.

I accept you right to have a different opinion. Every time I or another 'OWCer' ::) comments in this sort of thread, this is the sort of treatment we get. I don't expect you to agree with me. You could at least try disagreeing with me on the issue rather than just trotting out the old "well of course you guys would want to cover it up" line.

Quote from: his holiness nb on August 14, 2007, 06:47:23 PM
You didnt understand my post at all, I give up  ::)

Try me again if you think I haven't understood you. Because as far as I can see I have.

Quote from: his holiness nb on August 14, 2007, 06:30:22 PM

You, Sammy, Evil Genius, Gwelytah are all welcome here and nobody has suggested otherwise.

There are a small number of posters who have made it clear, explicitly and/or implicitly, that I and my views are actually not really welcome here. Invariably, it is in the context of being dubbed [pun intended] one of "the owc crowd". As such, you are one of the most irritating offenders.

Anyhow, I don't let these prejudices deter me, since I realise that such posters are not representative of "the GAA crowd". In fact, one of the things I have learned from this Board is that there is no such thing as a "GAA crowd", since that constituency represents a wide range of views.

Whether this happened or not it's funny rather than anything else. Linfield fans get ribbed by another team. Big deal. The people who Jeffrey said were chanting knew exactly which buttons to press.

I wouldn't see what Jeffrey claims to have heard as either acceptable or funny.

Quote from: Evil Genius on August 14, 2007, 07:09:51 PM

Quote from: his holiness nb on August 14, 2007, 06:30:22 PM

You, Sammy, Evil Genius, Gwelytah are all welcome here and nobody has suggested otherwise.

There are a small number of posters who have made it clear, explicitly and/or implicitly, that I and my views are actually not really welcome here. Invariably, it is in the context of being dubbed [pun intended] one of "the owc crowd". As such, you are one of the most irritating offenders.

Anyhow, I don't let these prejudices deter me, since I realise that such posters are not representative of "the GAA crowd". In fact, one of the things I have learned from this Board is that there is no such thing as a "GAA crowd", since that constituency represents a wide range of views.

EG, does disagreeing with what you post automatically say you are unwelcome??  ::)
Despite several arguments with yourself I have, on many occasions, said that I would not like to see you banned as you are entitled to your opinions, as much as I am entitled to question them.
If by dubbing you "one of the OWC crowd" you feel unwelcome then thats your own issue, its natural to say "one of the OWC crowd" when referring to the small group of NI Soccer fans who came here to argue with Tony Fearon in defence of all things NI Soccer. Its my understand that OWC stands for Our Wee Country which refers specifically to the Northern Irish Soccer team. Surely from that logic its not prejudiced to refer to you in this category??
Surely if a small group of GAA fans (and not soccer) went onto a soccer website a constantly argued on the side of the GAA in controversial issues it would be natural for the people there to refer to them as the "GAA crowd" ?
I certainly wouldnt consider it as prejudiced by any means.

If my understanding of "OWC" is wrong please let me know and I'll refrain from referring to you under this category.

One thing I do take exception to however are the insults you throw in sporadically (well you call me up on it when I do it) such as..

"Anyhow, I don't let these prejudices deter me"

I think the above explanation should clarify that my referring to the "OWC crowd" is not from prejudice and I'd therefore appreciate if you could retract that slur.

It's not just referring to people as being from the same category though, is it. It goes much deeper than that, to the extent where it's almost like 'we' are all seen as sharing one brain, one consciousness, and the opinions of one automatically become the opinions of all. So the opuinions of one (me) are attributed to all, then this one (me) is held to account for the opinions of 'all', which actually turn out to be the opinion or action of another individual or individuals.

I mean, look at this stuff:

Quote from: his holiness nb on August 14, 2007, 02:40:49 PM
I find it funny how all the NI soccer contigent rush to say it didnt happen, or it probably didnt happen, or that the manager isnt to be believed when they are quick to jump on the GAA when something similar happens with Darren Graham and everyone on here A) takes Darrens word for it and B) supports him and hopes this sort of carry on is cut out.

Quote from: T Fearon on August 14, 2007, 03:22:36 PM
Allegations of sectarian abuse made by Fermanagh GAA Player...instantly believed by OWC

Allegations of sectarian abuse made by Irish League manager...instantly rubbished by OWC

Where is the consistency? I think we know the answer....

Quote from: 5iveTimes on August 14, 2007, 05:14:22 PM
You simply refuse to see that sectarianism exists in NI soccer, wether or not this incident happened in the Ballymena v Linfield game is totally irrelevant, whereas you where very quick to jump on the Darren Graham bandwagon.

Quote from: stew on August 14, 2007, 05:56:02 PM
Wow, I am seeing a pattern here. Any time anyone says anything negative about an IFA club they get lambasted and the personal abuse toward them reaches unforseen heights. Derek Dougan got stick and Neil Lennon was branded a liar on the owc website.
Feckit Holly aged 8 from kent was told on owc that she needed to learn some manners and the class acts over there even questioned her parents parenting skills and all because of a perceived slight and the fact she wona prize on blue peter.

I applaud this man for having the stones to report this abuse given the history of retribution the 'fans' of IFA have meted out in the past.

SHAME OWC SHAME!!!!!!!!

It is, quite frankly, alarming.

Not alarming at all and once again MW you are playing the victim.

Curious though how you jump onto my post to EG referring to him specifically, then on another hand whinge about it when we say you might possibly be of the same mindset  ::)

Its easy to cut and paste a selection of quotes to suit your argument and call it "alarming".
I could easily do the same to show the "alarming" views of you and others, but thats just lazy.

Look we are clearly not going to agree on this, I explained myself very well to EG and am not prepared to get dragged into a tit for tat argument which lasts all day.

Lets leave it at that, after you have the last word of course  ;)

Quote from: MW on August 15, 2007, 10:23:17 AM
It's not just referring to people as being from the same category though, is it. It goes much deeper than that, to the extent where it's almost like 'we' are all seen as sharing one brain, one consciousness, and the opinions of one automatically become the opinions of all. So the opuinions of one (me) are attributed to all, then this one (me) is held to account for the opinions of 'all', which actually turn out to be the opinion or action of another individual or individuals.

I mean, look at this stuff:

Quote from: his holiness nb on August 14, 2007, 02:40:49 PM
I find it funny how all the NI soccer contigent rush to say it didnt happen, or it probably didnt happen, or that the manager isnt to be believed when they are quick to jump on the GAA when something similar happens with Darren Graham and everyone on here A) takes Darrens word for it and B) supports him and hopes this sort of carry on is cut out.

Quote from: T Fearon on August 14, 2007, 03:22:36 PM
Allegations of sectarian abuse made by Fermanagh GAA Player...instantly believed by OWC

Allegations of sectarian abuse made by Irish League manager...instantly rubbished by OWC

Where is the consistency? I think we know the answer....

Quote from: 5iveTimes on August 14, 2007, 05:14:22 PM
You simply refuse to see that sectarianism exists in NI soccer, wether or not this incident happened in the Ballymena v Linfield game is totally irrelevant, whereas you where very quick to jump on the Darren Graham bandwagon.

Quote from: stew on August 14, 2007, 05:56:02 PM
Wow, I am seeing a pattern here. Any time anyone says anything negative about an IFA club they get lambasted and the personal abuse toward them reaches unforseen heights. Derek Dougan got stick and Neil Lennon was branded a liar on the owc website.
Feckit Holly aged 8 from kent was told on owc that she needed to learn some manners and the class acts over there even questioned her parents parenting skills and all because of a perceived slight and the fact she wona prize on blue peter.

I applaud this man for having the stones to report this abuse given the history of retribution the 'fans' of IFA have meted out in the past.

SHAME OWC SHAME!!!!!!!!

It is, quite frankly, alarming.

On a related note, by the way it's a neat trick 5ivetimes has going (and to some extent you have going), which actually if systematically done could be fairly symbiotic with Tony Fearon's approach.

It seems to go like this:

- Tony makes a wild allegation or puts a completely one-sided account
- "OWCer" ::) points out this allegation isn't accurate, or balances the story by giving the other side of the account
- 5ivetimes jumps in and says said poster is an "apologist", wants to deny all instances of sectarianism, is only interested in a cover-up

In this situation, Tony's claim essentially becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy in the eyes of 5ivetimes. If it's questioned, that just confirms his view of themmuns that they're just "apologists". In fact it's actually in Tony's interests to make his allegations as one-sided, inaccurate or downright false as he can, because the "denial" forms as essential part of reaffirming the view of themmuns.

Quote from: 5iveTimes on August 14, 2007, 04:41:05 PM
All I am saying that it is not the first time the Irish League or NI Football in general has had allegations of sectarianism and of course the usual apologists are quick to jump on the bandwagon to deny anything ever happens.

Quote from: 5iveTimes on August 14, 2007, 04:22:56 PM
Shock Horror, allegations of sectarianism in NI Soccer.
Shock Horror, the ususal suspects are very quick to defend NI Soccer.

SO now giving your opinion is a "trick"  ::)

Jesus

Quote from: his holiness nb on August 15, 2007, 10:49:48 AM
SO now giving your opinion is a "trick"  ::)

Jesus

Not "trick" as in "A crafty or fraudulent device of a mean or base kind; an artifice to deceive or cheat; a stratagem, ruse, wile" ::)

"Trick" as in "A clever or adroit expedient, device".

Thanks MW, I understand what "trick" means  8)

Quote from: Evil Genius on August 14, 2007, 07:09:51 PM

Quote from: his holiness nb on August 14, 2007, 06:30:22 PM

You, Sammy, Evil Genius, Gwelytah are all welcome here and nobody has suggested otherwise.

There are a small number of posters who have made it clear, explicitly and/or implicitly, that I and my views are actually not really welcome here. Invariably, it is in the context of being dubbed [pun intended] one of "the owc crowd". As such, you are one of the most irritating offenders.

Anyhow, I don't let these prejudices deter me, since I realise that such posters are not representative of "the GAA crowd". In fact, one of the things I have learned from this Board is that there is no such thing as a "GAA crowd", since that constituency represents a wide range of views.

Can you explain why OWC opinions are welcomed and faciliated on GAABoard, yet on the OWC forum one little teasing remark against british/protestant opinion gets one banned for life?

And please make sure you've dried your hands after you've washed them of owc forum.

Quote from: Evil Genius on August 14, 2007, 07:09:51 PM

Quote from: his holiness nb on August 14, 2007, 06:30:22 PM

You, Sammy, Evil Genius, Gwelytah are all welcome here and nobody has suggested otherwise.

There are a small number of posters who have made it clear, explicitly and/or implicitly, that I and my views are actually not really welcome here. Invariably, it is in the context of being dubbed [pun intended] one of "the owc crowd". As such, you are one of the most irritating offenders.

Anyhow, I don't let these prejudices deter me, since I realise that such posters are not representative of "the GAA crowd". In fact, one of the things I have learned from this Board is that there is no such thing as a "GAA crowd", since that constituency represents a wide range of views.

EG you are welcome on this board,  the regular posters and the mods (oneill included) are a lot more tolerant than some other boards out there are and I am sure you can would agree with that. :)

Quote from: Evil Genius on August 14, 2007, 07:09:51 PM

Quote from: his holiness nb on August 14, 2007, 06:30:22 PM

You, Sammy, Evil Genius, Gwelytah are all welcome here and nobody has suggested otherwise.

There are a small number of posters who have made it clear, explicitly and/or implicitly, that I and my views are actually not really welcome here. Invariably, it is in the context of being dubbed [pun intended] one of "the owc crowd". As such, you are one of the most irritating offenders.

Anyhow, I don't let these prejudices deter me, since I realise that such posters are not representative of "the GAA crowd". In fact, one of the things I have learned from this Board is that there is no such thing as a "GAA crowd", since that constituency represents a wide range of views.

Well in fairness EG you do collectively defend every single point made on any IFA club and if anyone makes a disparaging remark about owc they seemed to be branded as liars. Jeffries and Neil lennon and the Doog could at one point or another relate to that.

Quote from: stew on August 15, 2007, 04:45:24 PM

Quote from: Evil Genius on August 14, 2007, 07:09:51 PM

Quote from: his holiness nb on August 14, 2007, 06:30:22 PM

You, Sammy, Evil Genius, Gwelytah are all welcome here and nobody has suggested otherwise.

There are a small number of posters who have made it clear, explicitly and/or implicitly, that I and my views are actually not really welcome here. Invariably, it is in the context of being dubbed [pun intended] one of "the owc crowd". As such, you are one of the most irritating offenders.

Anyhow, I don't let these prejudices deter me, since I realise that such posters are not representative of "the GAA crowd". In fact, one of the things I have learned from this Board is that there is no such thing as a "GAA crowd", since that constituency represents a wide range of views.

Well in fairness EG you do collectively defend every single point made on any IFA club and if anyone makes a disparaging remark about owc they seemed to be branded as liars. Jeffries and Neil lennon and the Doog could at one point or another relate to that.

Do you have some sort of problem with me saying that the Ballymena fans were outraged at Jeffrey's allegation?

And aren't you the one calling Ballymena fans, and the Ballymena manager and officials, liars?

(By the way Jeffrey doesn't have to be lying if what he says isn't true. Just as likely is the explanation that he misheard the chant "You're just a bunch of bigots" that everyone else seems to have heard)

From today's Belfast Telegraph:

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/local/article2864347.ece

The evening edition has an update article which says the IFA will be investigating. If the allegations are substantiated, Ballymena United face being fined. If the allegation is unfounded, David Jeffrey and/or Linfield could be reprimanded.

Quote from: his holiness nb on August 15, 2007, 10:42:17 AM
Not alarming at all and once again MW you are playing the victim.

I don't have to 'play' the victim when I get the sort of treatment above. (i.e. treated as one of a collectivbe of 'themmuns' who all share the same brain or something)

Quote
Curious though how you jump onto my post to EG referring to him specifically, then on another hand whinge about it when we say you might possibly be of the same mindset  ::)

Yet again you've managed to muddle things up. I was taking you up on your attitude. You brought EG into it. I continuted to address your attitude to me.

Quote
Its easy to cut and paste a selection of quotes to suit your argument and call it "alarming".
I could easily do the same to show the "alarming" views of you

Go ahead then, I challenge you to do just that.

Are you telling me Tony didn't call me 'OWC' on this thread, then say 'OWC' do something which I've never done? Are you saying 5ivetimes didn't make a completly groundless allegation that I'd "jumped on the Darren Graham bandwagon"? Are you saying that you didn't refer to "all the NI soccer contingent" having done something which in fact only myself and another poster had done, and went on in the same sentence to say this "contingent" had done something which I haven't done and which I would doubt the other poster did either?

Stop me if I'm getting any facts wrong here ???

Quote
and others, but thats just lazy.

I'll tell you what's lazy. Branding a group of people and not bothering your arse to think about which one of "themmuns" has actually expressed which opinion. Extremely bloody lazy.

Quote from: MW on August 15, 2007, 05:56:51 PM

Quote from: stew on August 15, 2007, 04:45:24 PM

Quote from: Evil Genius on August 14, 2007, 07:09:51 PM

Quote from: his holiness nb on August 14, 2007, 06:30:22 PM

You, Sammy, Evil Genius, Gwelytah are all welcome here and nobody has suggested otherwise.

There are a small number of posters who have made it clear, explicitly and/or implicitly, that I and my views are actually not really welcome here. Invariably, it is in the context of being dubbed [pun intended] one of "the owc crowd". As such, you are one of the most irritating offenders.

Anyhow, I don't let these prejudices deter me, since I realise that such posters are not representative of "the GAA crowd". In fact, one of the things I have learned from this Board is that there is no such thing as a "GAA crowd", since that constituency represents a wide range of views.

Well in fairness EG you do collectively defend every single point made on any IFA club and if anyone makes a disparaging remark about owc they seemed to be branded as liars. Jeffries and Neil lennon and the Doog could at one point or another relate to that.

Do you have some sort of problem with me saying that the Ballymena fans were outraged at Jeffrey's allegation?

And aren't you the one calling Ballymena fans, and the Ballymena manager and officials, liars?

(By the way Jeffrey doesn't have to be lying if what he says isn't true. Just as likely is the explanation that he misheard the chant "You're just a bunch of bigots" that everyone else seems to have heard)

I have no problem with you saying SOME Ballymena fans were outraged at Jeffrey's allegation but to say all I take exception to.

I am not calling anyone anything, if some at the game didnt hear it and they dont believe it they are as informed as I am about the abuse, they can neither confirm nor deny what was said. I just don't know why someone would make this claim up.

If jeffries is lying he should be severely sanctioned, if ballymena supporters did shout what was alleged then they should be punished as individuals and a fine should be handed out to the club but the brunt of the blame should fall squarely on the shoulders of the abusers.

Lookit, sawker in the six is very poorly attended but those who do go seem to have no problem abusing opposing managers, players and officials ( just ask the poor linesman from the republic who got dogs abuse)

I have very low expectations for sawker fans in general but especially those of lingfield and glentoran and I would be sad to have to add a third team of haters in ballymena should jeffries claims be substantiated. I hope this is not the case.

take a leaf out of the rugger buggers book sawkah fans, just show up, drink loads of beer and have a great time minus all the sectarianism and see what happens.

Quote from: stew on August 15, 2007, 06:09:47 PM
I have no problem with you saying SOME Ballymena fans were outraged at Jeffrey's allegation but to say all I take exception to.

Okay, let me put it another way. Any Ballymena fan whose account I have encountered either on ILF, in person, or through friends, who was at the match on Saturday have been outraged at Jeffrey's allegations and have said they are groundless.

Quote
I am not calling anyone anything, if some at the game didnt hear it and they dont believe it they are as informed as I am about the abuse, they can neither confirm nor deny what was said.

No stew. Jeffrey claims to have have heard a song (worse than Rangers ::)) coming from the Ballymena fans. He was standing in front of the South Stand, across the pitch from the North Stand where the Ballymena fans were housed. If the alleged song was actually sung, and was audible to Jeffrey, it would certainly have been audible to Ballymena fans, who insist there was no such song. It wold also have been audible to Linfield fans in the Kop Stand and the South Stand, and plenty of them seemed pretty bemused by what Jeffrey had to say.

Quote
I just don't know why someone would make this claim up.

As I've said above, he doesn't have to be making it up. He could have misheard the song. Given that he's extremely 'emotionally charged' at matches this is possible. If you're looking for reasons why he might make it up - a section of the Ballymena support was getting at him over his private life. Add in the fact that some years ago he as implicated in joining in a sectarian song post-match (those emotions getting the better of him again) and there's some sort of motive there - attacks his attackers and paint himself in an anti-sectarian light.

To me the most likely scenario is that being a bit of a headcase (no, I'm not just trying to smear him here ::)) he misheard the song, and his mind went charging like a runaway train. He then saw his way to get his own back at the Ballymena supporters who had been giving him personal abuse by going straight to the papers with how hocked and disppointed he was (he has previous here, 2000 I think it was over the aforementioned Oval 'tunnel' incident)

Quote
If jeffries is lying he should be severely sanctioned,

Yes, it's unlikely to come about though since it's going to be very hard to conclusively prove 'the negative' (i.e. there was nothing of a sectarian nature sung), and even then hard to prove Jeffrey deliberately made it up.

Quote
if ballymena supporters did shout what was alleged then they should be punished as individuals and a fine should be handed out to the club but the brunt of the blame should fall squarely on the shoulders of the abusers.

I'm of the opinion that clubs should be fined and "supporters" banned.

Quote from: stew on August 15, 2007, 06:15:29 PM
Lookit, sawker in the six is very poorly attended but those who do go seem to have no problem abusing opposing managers, players and officials

You of course know a lot about Irish League football through all those matches that you've attended, I assume ::)

Quote
( just ask the poor linesman from the republic who got dogs abuse)

Are you ever going to try to substantiate this or explain where you got it from? ???

Quote
I have very low expectations for sawker fans in general but especially those of lingfield and glentoran

Nice. As a Glentoran fan, can I ask why?

Quote
and I would be sad to have to add a third team of haters

Wait just there. Glentoran are a "team of haters"? How exactly do you justify such an allegation?

As for your opinion on Linfield. For f**ks sake a few pages back you were taking the Linfield manager's word as gospel, and because I had the temerity to say that actually Ballymena fans were strongly taking issue with what he claimed, you said "Wow, I am seeing a pattern here. Any time anyone says anything negative about an IFA club they get lambasted and the personal abuse toward them reaches unforseen heights...I applaud this man for having the stones to report this abuse given the history of retribution the 'fans' of IFA have meted out in the past"

Make up your mind ???

Quote
take a leaf out of the rugger buggers book sawkah fans, just show up, drink loads of beer and have a great time minus all the sectarianism and see what happens.

Yeah, you'd never catch soccer fans doing that ::) You really don't have a clue, do you?

Quote from: MW on August 15, 2007, 06:53:29 PM

Quote from: stew on August 15, 2007, 06:15:29 PM
Lookit, sawker in the six is very poorly attended but those who do go seem to have no problem abusing opposing managers, players and officials

You of course know a lot about Irish League football through all those matches that you've attended, I assume ::)

Quote
( just ask the poor linesman from the republic who got dogs abuse)

Are you ever going to try to substantiate this or explain where you got it from? ???

Quote
I have very low expectations for sawker fans in general but especially those of lingfield and glentoran

Nice. As a Glentoran fan, can I ask why?

Quote
and I would be sad to have to add a third team of haters

Wait just there. Glentoran are a "team of haters"? How exactly do you justify such an allegation?

As for your opinion on Linfield. For f**ks sake a few pages back you were taking the Linfield manager's word as gospel, and because I had the temerity to say that actually Ballymena fans were strongly taking issue with what he claimed, you said "Wow, I am seeing a pattern here. Any time anyone says anything negative about an IFA club they get lambasted and the personal abuse toward them reaches unforseen heights...I applaud this man for having the stones to report this abuse given the history of retribution the 'fans' of IFA have meted out in the past"

Make up your mind ???

Quote
take a leaf out of the rugger buggers book sawkah fans, just show up, drink loads of beer and have a great time minus all the sectarianism and see what happens.

Yeah, you'd never catch soccer fans doing that ::) You really don't have a clue, do you?

I been to many irish league games, probably over a hundred in my time.

There was a linesman from the south in the past year that got awful abuse from a section of the wp faithful during a game. This is a fact and was commented on over on owc, even they acknowledged that it happened so why cant you????

It is not just local soccer fans MW ther are issues worldwide with so called 'fans' who give the game a bad name. The spanish fans have gone racist in reent years and don't get me started on English clubs. In the north you had that riot a couple of years back between lingfield and the mighty glens supporters and now there is a new scandal hanging over the head of Ballymena United so forgive me for having such low expectations for soccer fans.

As for the fans having a few drinks and simply enjoying themselves, of course some do that in soccer but the difference is you never hear about issues with rugby fans and sectarianism is non existant in Rugby. If you cannot see the difference between the two you are blind. Rugby fans are a better calibre of supporter in my opinion because unlike a portion of sawker fans, the rugby boys dont bate other over the head with bottles, use knives and wreck property.

Quote from: stew on August 15, 2007, 07:55:52 PM
There was a linesman from the south in the past year that got awful abuse from a section of the wp faithful during a game. This is a fact and was commented on over on owc, even they acknowledged that it happened so why cant you????

What game was this?

Quote from: Solomon Kane on August 15, 2007, 08:07:58 PM

Quote from: stew on August 15, 2007, 07:55:52 PM
There was a linesman from the south in the past year that got awful abuse from a section of the wp faithful during a game. This is a fact and was commented on over on owc, even they acknowledged that it happened so why cant you????

What game was this?

Er.............................That would be the last game there was a linesman from the Republic.  ;)

Quote from: stew on August 16, 2007, 02:53:50 AM

Quote from: Solomon Kane on August 15, 2007, 08:07:58 PM

Quote from: stew on August 15, 2007, 07:55:52 PM
There was a linesman from the south in the past year that got awful abuse from a section of the wp faithful during a game. This is a fact and was commented on over on owc, even they acknowledged that it happened so why cant you????

What game was this?

Er.............................That would be the last game there was a linesman from the Republic.  ;)

Since it is fact maybe you would like to enlighten us all as to which game you refer?  Just to help you, I have carried out some research and you will have to go back further than the past year which you have claimed ::) this took place.

Northern Ireland v Iceland
http://www.uefa.com/competitions/euro/fixturesresults/round=2241/match=83709/report=lu.html (http://www.uefa.com/competitions/euro/fixturesresults/round=2241/match=83709/report=lu.html)

Northern Ireland v Spain
http://www.uefa.com/competitions/euro/fixturesresults/round=2241/match=83713/report=lu.html (http://www.uefa.com/competitions/euro/fixturesresults/round=2241/match=83713/report=lu.html)

Northern Ireland v Latvia
http://www.uefa.com/competitions/euro/fixturesresults/round=2241/match=83719/report=lu.html (http://www.uefa.com/competitions/euro/fixturesresults/round=2241/match=83719/report=lu.html)

Northern Ireland v Sweden
http://www.uefa.com/competitions/euro/fixturesresults/round=2241/match=83722/report=lu.html (http://www.uefa.com/competitions/euro/fixturesresults/round=2241/match=83722/report=lu.html)

In between the Latvia and Sweden matches there was a friendly against Wales.  I do not have link for this but from the programme I can see the referee and his assistants were from Scotland and the fourth official from Belfast.

Quote from: MW on August 15, 2007, 06:09:06 PM

Quote from: his holiness nb on August 15, 2007, 10:42:17 AM
Not alarming at all and once again MW you are playing the victim.

I don't have to 'play' the victim when I get the sort of treatment above. (i.e. treated as one of a collectivbe of 'themmuns' who all share the same brain or something)

Quote
Curious though how you jump onto my post to EG referring to him specifically, then on another hand whinge about it when we say you might possibly be of the same mindset  ::)

Yet again you've managed to muddle things up. I was taking you up on your attitude. You brought EG into it. I continuted to address your attitude to me.

Quote
Its easy to cut and paste a selection of quotes to suit your argument and call it "alarming".
I could easily do the same to show the "alarming" views of you

Go ahead then, I challenge you to do just that.

Are you telling me Tony didn't call me 'OWC' on this thread, then say 'OWC' do something which I've never done? Are you saying 5ivetimes didn't make a completly groundless allegation that I'd "jumped on the Darren Graham bandwagon"? Are you saying that you didn't refer to "all the NI soccer contingent" having done something which in fact only myself and another poster had done, and went on in the same sentence to say this "contingent" had done something which I haven't done and which I would doubt the other poster did either?

Stop me if I'm getting any facts wrong here ???

Quote
and others, but thats just lazy.

I'll tell you what's lazy. Branding a group of people and not bothering your arse to think about which one of "themmuns" has actually expressed which opinion. Extremely bloody lazy.

I've given an full explanation to everything I have said.
Regarding you "challenge" for me to copy and paste quotes I wont do that for a few reasons.

1) its selective quoting and not telling the whole story, I dont approve of this method, I'd hardly call you up on it only to do the same myself  ::)
2) I have much better things to than to indulge yourself in more of this.

As I said, I have explained my comments clearly, you have asked me about what Tony and 5 times have said as part of your argument. I suggest you bring that up with them not me, after all we arent all a "a collective of 'themmuns' who all share the same brain or something" as you put it.

I wont be online for the rest of the day as I have some work to do, you clearly wont accept my explanation of anything, and to be honest I think you are talking a great deal of tripe too, with a few valid points thrown in. So lets just drop this, its page six, every valid point worth making has been made already.

Quote from: his holiness nb on August 16, 2007, 10:17:36 AM
As I said, I have explained my comments clearly, you have asked me about what Tony and 5 times have said as part of your argument. I suggest you bring that up with them not me, after all we arent all a "a collective of 'themmuns' who all share the same brain or something" as you put it.

I've asked you about your comments. When I brought up how a minority treat 'OWCers' and have treated me specifically, you said that we have been "welcome". This is why I pointed you to how others as well as you have treated me - as part of a collective. I don't expect you to answer for their comments, or explain them. However I do think that your comment was on the same lines: "I find it funny how all the NI soccer contigent [referring to myself and one other poster] rush to say it didnt happen, or it probably didnt happen, or that the manager isnt to be believed when they[referring to different individuals are quick to jump on the GAA when something similar happens with Darren Graham". While I don't think you've adequately explained this, at least you've had the courtesy and the backbone to address it, which is more than can be said for Tony and 5ivetimes.

Quote
I wont be online for the rest of the day as I have some work to do, you clearly wont accept my explanation of anything, and to be honest I think you are talking a great deal of tripe too, with a few valid points thrown in. So lets just drop this, its page six, every valid point worth making has been made already.

OK.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/local/article2864712.ece

IFA wants answers from Blues boss


The Irish FA have written to Linfield FC and manager David Jeffrey asking for their comments on the public row between the club and Ballymena United over allegations of sectarianism.

Jeffrey has claimed that his team were subjected to abuse from Ballymena fans during Saturday's opening CIS Cup game at Windsor Park.

Ballymena United have hit back at the allegations, claiming them to be " unsubstantiated."

The IFA have advised Linfield that there is a procedure for dealing with such matters under the new Disciplinary Code.

Allegations must be submitted in writing and include all relevant information to substantiate such a claim.

Visiting clubs are liable for the conduct of their own fans and, if the allegations are substantiated, then Ballymena would face a fine of £1,250 and a three point deduction.

Equally, if the allegations do not stand up, then Jeffrey and Linfield face a reprimand.

Ballymena were involved in a sectarian allegation against a Cliftonville player last season, but then asked for the matter to be withdrawn. The Disciplinary Committee dismissed the allegation through lack of evidence.

Quote from: MW on August 17, 2007, 12:09:49 PM
Visiting clubs are liable for the conduct of their own fans and, if the allegations are substantiated, then Ballymena would face a fine of £1,250 and a three point deduction.

I was particularly interested in this bit - not just a fine but a potential points deduction. Which seems to have been introduced this season.

Whatever the facts behind the allegation, Jeffrey has handled this poorly. If a manager thinks his players have suffered sectarian or racial abuse, his first move should be to get his club to report this to the authorities so that proper action can be taken.

Sounds like a storm in a teacup to me.
An ironic pisstake that is blown out of all proportion.

Quote from: Main Street on August 17, 2007, 12:30:10 PM
Sounds like a storm in a teacup to me.
An ironic pisstake that is blown out of all proportion.

Nail, Hit, Head.

Looking forward to Cliftonville V Linfield on Sky tonight :P, I read in the Irish News that there will be 16 pitchside micophones, any betting on how many times 'black bastard' and 'fenian bastard' will be heard on 'national' tv?

Surely the attendances at these games don't warrent it being shown on live tv? Will this not mean even less people will attend the game?

Quote from: bennydorano on September 24, 2007, 06:14:16 PM
Looking forward to Cliftonville V Linfield on Sky tonight :P, I read in the Irish News that there will be 16 pitchside micophones

One for every spectator.

Now that I think about it, it might be more fun to point the cameras at the terraces as well.

Whats the standards like these days, would it be worth watching?

Quote from: his holiness nb on September 24, 2007, 06:22:02 PM
Whats the standards like these days, would it be worth watching?

Shite & no.

So that's what the Cliftonville ones were creaming themselves about on the news tonight.

Seen the last half hour or so....seemed a pretty good game.

Quote from: Norf Tyrone on September 24, 2007, 10:00:10 PM
Seen the last half hour or so....seemed a pretty good game.

It was if you like watching that standard of football.

Did sky manage to get any of the singing?
I didn't get to the match but could hear the crowd singing way across North Belfast.

excellent game last night; excellent coverage and fair play to Sky and the Irish League for trying to raise awareness of the local game. There are a number of players in the Irish League well capable of playing in England/Scotland; lots of Irish League players back in the league after going through apprenticeships or 1 or 2 year professional contracts at lower league clubs....

great advert for the game, 4 goals, plenty of great tackling and a great finish to the game. was impressed with sky who had done their research and gerry armstrong obviously knows the local game well. solitude obviously isnt the best ground around, but loads of colour and a great turn out at the game.....

Quote from: stiffler on September 24, 2007, 06:17:12 PM
Surely the attendances at these games don't warrent it being shown on live tv? Will this not mean even less people will attend the game?

It was the biggest crowd at Solitude since the day the Reds won the league in April 1998.

Quote from: his holiness nb on September 24, 2007, 06:22:02 PM
Whats the standards like these days, would it be worth watching?

Better than many people realise; and definitely. :)

There must have been loads of players down injured because i lost count of the times players were putting the ball out of play with nobody near them, surely there is no other reason for this !!  ;)

i watched the game and not being a big irish football fan i thought it was a really good end to end game. you could hear the home fans singing go home you huns and if you hate those orange bastards clap your hands. not good for that to be heard on tv for a potentially big audience. abuse to individual players was easy heard, but funny in a thick belfast accent.

Does anyone know what the attendance figures for Irish League matches are or where they can be got?

Quote from: 5iveTimes on September 25, 2007, 02:21:52 PM
Try the Sunday Life or Irelands Saturday Night.
www.sundaylife.co.uk
www.irelandssaturdaynight.co.uk

No joy on either of these sites or on the official IFA site; must be a closely guarded secret!!!!!!! I don't really care; just curious to see how their attendance figures compare with GAA National League matches.

Get 7 or 8 people to go to the matches and they could probably count how many people are at each match.

Quote from: stiffler on September 24, 2007, 06:17:12 PM
Surely the attendances at these games don't warrent it being shown on live tv? Will this not mean even less people will attend the game?

The ground was packed, excellent atmosphere (bar one or two chants but they could only be heard if you knew what you were listening for) and a decent match. Great advert for the Irish League and hopefully will encourage more people to attend.

Quote from: SammyG on September 25, 2007, 03:26:04 PM

Quote from: stiffler on September 24, 2007, 06:17:12 PM
Surely the attendances at these games don't warrent it being shown on live tv? Will this not mean even less people will attend the game?

The ground was packed

Is that normally the case SammyG, or was it just the fact that it was being televised on Sky Sports?

Quote from: ziggysego on September 25, 2007, 03:46:24 PM

Quote from: SammyG on September 25, 2007, 03:26:04 PM

Quote from: stiffler on September 24, 2007, 06:17:12 PM
Surely the attendances at these games don't warrent it being shown on live tv? Will this not mean even less people will attend the game?

The ground was packed

Is that normally the case SammyG, or was it just the fact that it was being televised on Sky Sports?

Varies from match to match but games with Cliftonville/Linfield/Glentoran usually get decent crowds. Last night looked bigger than a normal mid week crowd but I haven't seen the attendance figures, so I'm only going by the tv pictures.

Quote from: SammyG on September 25, 2007, 03:56:08 PM

Quote from: ziggysego on September 25, 2007, 03:46:24 PM

Quote from: SammyG on September 25, 2007, 03:26:04 PM

Quote from: stiffler on September 24, 2007, 06:17:12 PM
Surely the attendances at these games don't warrent it being shown on live tv? Will this not mean even less people will attend the game?

The ground was packed

Is that normally the case SammyG, or was it just the fact that it was being televised on Sky Sports?

Varies from match to match but games with Cliftonville/Linfield/Glentoran usually get decent crowds. Last night looked bigger than a normal mid week crowd but I haven't seen the attendance figures, so I'm only going by the tv pictures.

Fair enough. Wasn't having a good or anything, I hope you know ;)

QuoteVaries from match to match but games with Cliftonville/Linfield/Glentoran usually get decent crowds

Sammy, are we talking hundreds or thousands here?

Quote from: Sandy Hill on September 25, 2007, 04:42:37 PM

QuoteVaries from match to match but games with Cliftonville/Linfield/Glentoran usually get decent crowds

Sammy, are we talking hundreds or thousands here?

Depends on who's playing and how important the match is. Crowds are anywhere from a couple of hundred up to 6 or 7000.

I take it the crowds are proportional to the amount of hate between the two clubs.

 A tyrone championship semi final attracted 8 - 9000 at the weekend.  yet it will always be argued that Joe Public wants to see soccor.  I have half a notion of cancelling my SKY contract after witnessing that rubbish last night. I must admit I was very disappointed with the attendance.  

I think the large attendence also relates to the band wagon aspect in Cliftonville, they have a seriously good chance of the league if they can stay fit, I know thay have probably the best youth set up also, so things are looking up for them esp after the Co. Antrim Shield victory over Linfield

Quote from: rrhf on September 25, 2007, 04:50:47 PM
A tyrone championship semi final attracted 8 - 9000 at the weekend.  yet it will always be argued that Joe Public wants to see soccor.

Hardly a fair comparison, football cup finals attract bigger crowds as well. How many would turn up for a bread and butter GAA match on a wet Monday night?

Quote from: rrhf on September 25, 2007, 04:50:47 PM
 I have half a notion of cancelling my SKY contract after witnessing that rubbish last night.

Not sure what you were expecting. I'm not an expert on the IL (would only see a couple of matches a season if I happen to be home) but it's about the same standard as the lower leagues in England and anybody I've spoken to thought last night's game was decent enough.

Quote from: rrhf on September 25, 2007, 04:50:47 PM
I must admit I was very disappointed with the attendance.  

In what way?

In an almost completely irrelevant point I was at a wedding in Washington DC a week ago, the bride had gone to university of michigan.
The attendance at their games has been over 100,000 for each of the last 200 games,and has topped at about 112,000 people.

Quote from: rrhf on September 25, 2007, 04:50:47 PM
A tyrone championship semi final attracted 8 - 9000 at the weekend.  yet it will always be argued that Joe Public wants to see soccor.   

The Longford Intermediate Final had about 2,000 in Pearse Park on Sunday while Longford Town's FAI Cup Qtr Final last weekend got around 1,000.

I thought it was a decent game, equal to, if not better than the dross they regularly show from the English lower leagues. 

Quote from: nifan on September 25, 2007, 06:44:22 PM
In an almost completely irrelevant point I was at a wedding in Washington DC a week ago, the bride had gone to university of michigan.
The attendance at their games has been over 100,000 for each of the last 200 games,and has topped at about 112,000 people.

Unless I have missed something I think the adverb 'almost' should have been left out. Surely you can appreciate that in the absence of the ever perceptive Sky microphones ability to pick up any sectarian dribble at a "heated" Belfast derby game, nonetheless points have to be scored. We reserve the right to guffaw at the IL paltry attendences in comparison to GAA underage ladies camogie competitions.

I didn't see the game, off training myself, but from what I hear seems to have been a decent spectacle - and as a Glentoran fan a handy result for us! Cliftonville look like they'll be up there challenging for the IPL title again this season.

On the original subject of the thread, I see David Jeffrey has now been told to substantiate his allegations by 10 October or apologise to the Ballymena fans...

http://www.picfury.com/2r/A33882-1.html

Quote from: Main Street on September 25, 2007, 09:46:15 PM
Unless I have missed something I think the adverb 'almost' should have been left out. Surely you can appreciate that in the absence of the ever perceptive Sky microphones ability to pick up any sectarian dribble at a "heated" Belfast derby game, nonetheless points have to be scored. We reserve the right to guffaw at the IL paltry attendences in comparison to GAA underage ladies camogie competitions.

well as a newly founde U of Michigan fan (go wolverines) i thought id guffaw at all of your paltry turnouts :P

Quote from: Sandy Hill on September 25, 2007, 02:43:34 PMNo joy on either of these sites or on the official IFA site; must be a closely guarded secret!!!!!!! I don't really care; just curious to see how their attendance figures compare with GAA National League matches.

Erm...if you "don't really care" then why did you comment on the issue several times?  :-\

The attendance was 2,571, Cliftonville's largest since the day we won the league in April 1998.  Attendance figures are submitted to the IFA but are not published.

Quote from: rrhf on September 25, 2007, 04:50:47 PMI have half a notion of cancelling my SKY contract after witnessing that rubbish last night.

Admirable narrow-mindedness, bordering on stupidity. :)

Quote from: rrhf on September 25, 2007, 04:50:47 PMI must admit I was very disappointed with the attendance.   

You were disappointed that it was Cliftonville's highest attendance in almost 10 years and that 80% of tickets available were sold?  Bizarre...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/irish/7087796.stm

Wonder if anyone who lined up to have a go at me has a comment to make now?

I have a comment MW.
I posted a link to that article in the proper IFA thread yesterday.

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=4602.msg193279#msg193279 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=4602.msg193279#msg193279)

Really MW, isn't it enough to have one Tony Fearon, who opens more threads than Robbie Keane can score goals :)

Quote from: An Fear Dearg on September 26, 2007, 02:21:04 PM

The attendance was 2,571, Cliftonville's largest since the day we won the league in April 1998.  Attendance figures are submitted to the IFA but are not published.

not surprised theyre not published - some club league matches in derry get bigget attendances, nver mind the championship, especially if theres a good chance of a row ;D
how many bbc tv cameras were there? ::)

Quote from: gaagaa on November 11, 2007, 06:09:43 PMhow many bbc tv cameras were there? ::)

None, the match was on SKY.

Quote from: Main Street on November 11, 2007, 06:05:10 PM
I have a comment MW.
I posted a link to that article in the proper IFA thread yesterday.

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=4602.msg193279#msg193279 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=4602.msg193279#msg193279)

Really MW, isn't it enough to have one Tony Fearon, who opens more threads than Robbie Keane can score goals :)

To be fair:

- I didn't open this thread
- this thread is about the allegation to which I have now posted the conclusion.

running away from sectarianism again, it's very sad.
At least when they were facing up to problems there was some hope.

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 11, 2007, 07:59:21 PM
running away from sectarianism again, it's very sad.
At least when they were facing up to problems there was some hope.

They're not running away from anything. It never happened, just Big Davy making a dick of himself (again).

Quote from: SammyG on November 11, 2007, 08:20:57 PM

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 11, 2007, 07:59:21 PM
running away from sectarianism again, it's very sad.
At least when they were facing up to problems there was some hope.

They're not running away from anything. It never happened, just Big Davy making a dick of himself (again).

Aye and shure wasnt it just some idiot with a 20p piece! :-[

Almost anything can be explained away by sammy.

Quote from: stew on November 11, 2007, 09:15:05 PM

Quote from: SammyG on November 11, 2007, 08:20:57 PM

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 11, 2007, 07:59:21 PM
running away from sectarianism again, it's very sad.
At least when they were facing up to problems there was some hope.

They're not running away from anything. It never happened, just Big Davy making a dick of himself (again).

Aye and shure wasnt it just some idiot with a 20p piece! :-[

Almost anything can be explained away by sammy.

Fcuk me it's hard work. Big Davy made an allegation, even though not one other person in the ground heard anything. There was a full investigation and it found nothing so DJ has been given a bollocking for talking shite. What am I trying to explain away?

9 pages about nothing then.

How do you guys justify your existence? :)

Can't see how anyone, least of all David Jeffrey could have been offended by the alleged chants. I thought they (had they been chanted of course )were witty. Satire and irony are obviously outside big Davy's repetoire.

The only thing that this episode highlights in that Mr Jeffrey is, always was, and most likely always will be, a complete buffoon.

Quote from: saffron sam2 on November 11, 2007, 10:04:41 PMThe only thing that this episode highlights in that Mr Jeffrey is, always was, and most likely always will be, a complete buffoon.

And on that point I think we can all agree.

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 11, 2007, 07:59:21 PM
running away from sectarianism again, it's very sad.
At least when they were facing up to problems there was some hope.

Quote from: stew on November 11, 2007, 09:15:05 PM

Aye and shure wasnt it just some idiot with a 20p piece! :-[

Almost anything can be explained away by sammy.

Absolutely pathetic.

Not that I'm at all surprised at the reaction of you two. Pigs and grunts spring to mind.

Quote from: saffron sam2 on November 11, 2007, 10:04:41 PMThe only thing that this episode highlights in that Mr Jeffrey is, always was, and most likely always will be, a complete buffoon.

Amen to that.

Quote from: MW on November 12, 2007, 03:15:41 PM

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 11, 2007, 07:59:21 PM
running away from sectarianism again, it's very sad.
At least when they were facing up to problems there was some hope.

Quote from: stew on November 11, 2007, 09:15:05 PM

Aye and shure wasnt it just some idiot with a 20p piece! :-[

Almost anything can be explained away by sammy.

Absolutely pathetic.

Not that I'm at all surprised at the reaction of you two. Pigs and grunts spring to mind.

MW does you not see the deflection going on here, the ability to rationalize anything?

Quote from: stew on November 12, 2007, 04:20:02 PMMW does you not see the deflection going on here, the ability to rationalize anything?

How in the name of fcuk do you rationalise something that never happened?

Pardon my ignorance, but I presume Ballymena's supporters are mostly Protestant, so what sort of "sectarian abuse" were they supposed to be throwing at Linfield?

Quote from: stew on November 12, 2007, 04:20:02 PM
MW does you not see the deflection going on here, the ability to rationalize anything?

Stew, no-one else who was at the game, whether Ballymena fans, Linfield fans, Ballymena management, the media or, presumably, the match officials, heard what Jeffrey claimed to. His own club didn't even back him up.

The IFA investigated and found that there was "no basis in fact" to Jeffrey's allegation.

Why exactly do you want to believe his groundless allegation?

They were abusing the Catholic players on the Linfield team. Noble of Jeffrey to highlight this.In the late 80s he himself abused my mate, who was playing for Ards against Linfield in direct opposition to Jeffery, in a sectarin manner

Quote from: T Fearon on November 12, 2007, 04:43:43 PM
They were abusing the Catholic players on the Linfield team. Noble of Jeffrey to highlight this.

No they weren't. Jeffrey 'peddled an untruth'.

So I can see why you're praising him.

Like Billy Leonard, anyone born in the six counties can travel for years inb darkness but eventually see the light, even David Jeffrey

Quote from: T Fearon on November 12, 2007, 04:49:04 PM
Like Billy Leonard, anyone born in the six counties can travel for years inb darkness but eventually see the light, even David Jeffrey

Seriously Tony, (and I do mean Tony, not "Tony") - what's the point? Isn't there more to life than trying to get satisfaction from annoying people?

Quote from: MW on November 12, 2007, 04:42:46 PM

Quote from: stew on November 12, 2007, 04:20:02 PM
MW does you not see the deflection going on here, the ability to rationalize anything?

Stew, no-one else who was at the game, whether Ballymena fans, Linfield fans, Ballymena management, the media or, presumably, the match officials, heard what Jeffrey claimed to. His own club didn't even back him up.

The IFA investigated and found that there was "no basis in fact" to Jeffrey's allegation.

Why exactly do you want to believe his groundless allegation?

I dont want to believe it, i dont want to disbelieve it, that is not what it is about, I would be annoyed if Catholic players were getting stickfor any reason. I dont believe nothing was said, why would he react the way he did.

catholics getting abused in the IL is nothing new. I remember watching linfield players going after joey cunningham years ago, the abuse he got for being a Black Catholic was unbelievable.

Quote from: Loughers on November 12, 2007, 04:33:35 PM
Pardon my ignorance, but I presume Ballymena's supporters are mostly Protestant, so what sort of "sectarian abuse" were they supposed to be throwing at Linfield?

The unsubstantiated allegation was that the Ballymena supporters were chanting "You're just a team full of Fenians". Had this been the case, I think it was geared towards Linfield's old No Catholics policy rather than at the Catholics playing for Linfield. I genuinely can't see how anyone would have a problem with such a chant.

But since it never happened, the whole thing is a moot point.