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Heard a glowing review on Dougie Marshall's show on Downtown Radio this morning of young Kielty's acting debut in the Night in November play (the theme of which is sectarianism at Windsor Park). It is fair to say Dougie (A Londoner by the way)was literally raving about him. saying he should be waking up this morning very happy and proud.

Hope he takes this play on tour to Dublin, London's West End etc. A few memories definitely need refreshing ;D

Did you go?

And if so, did you come?  :o

I have already seen it and frankly don't need to see a drama to educate myself about sectarianism at Windsor Park which I have witnessed first hand on many occasions ;)

I know people who went to it last night. They seemed to enjoy it anyway.

They are going thermo-nuclear about it over on OWC.

So much anger over there these days.

Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on August 09, 2007, 06:29:16 PM
I know people who went to it last night. They seemed to enjoy it anyway.

They must be easily pleased.

Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on August 09, 2007, 06:29:16 PM
They are going thermo-nuclear about it over on OWC.

???

Actually went to see it last nite. And I can understand why they weren't happy. It does paint a very NI bad ROI good picture. All in all I found it very funny as it did poke the fun at both sides at times. But I can def see why OWC are so annoyed about it!!

Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on August 09, 2007, 06:29:16 PM
I know people who went to it last night. They seemed to enjoy it anyway.
They are going thermo-nuclear about it over on OWC.
So much anger over there these days.

Thats my 3rd thread I have read there.
Some humourless bitter dickheads in deep denial.
Although humour can be found. There was an indirect reference in one post to a NI catholic attending WP that night and the automatic assumption in the next post was that the catholic was there to support the Republic.

The vast majority have not seen it, one poster gets pillered for booking tickets just to find out what it was about.

One poster admitted that there was widespread bigotry and sectarianism there that night and very honestly said that he participated, much to his deep shame or regret now.
An interesting irony.

Anyone remember Dermot Morgan coming on every week on some RTE light entertainment show and being like a savage lunatic acting out some neanderthal GAA bigot waving his hurley stick?
Hilarious stuff.
I think that that image was the foundation stone of his career.

Quote from: Main Street on August 09, 2007, 09:22:11 PM

Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on August 09, 2007, 06:29:16 PM
I know people who went to it last night. They seemed to enjoy it anyway.
They are going thermo-nuclear about it over on OWC.
So much anger over there these days.

Thats my 3rd thread I have read there.
Some humourless bitter dickheads in deep denial.

Any particular posters that you think are 'in denial'?

Quote from: Main Street on August 09, 2007, 09:22:11 PM
Although humour can be found. There was an indirect reference in one post to a NI catholic attending WP that night and the automatic assumption in the next post was that the catholic was there to support the Republic.

???

Quote from: Main Street on August 09, 2007, 09:22:11 PM
The vast majority have not seen it, one poster gets pillered for booking tickets just to find out what it was about.

Are you sure?

Quote from: Main Street on August 09, 2007, 09:22:11 PM
One poster admitted that there was widespread bigotry and sectarianism there that night and very honestly said that he participated, much to his deep shame or regret now.
An interesting irony.

Only one?

I think that's the first time I've been on OWC in two years - in order to read the thread on Kielty - and it had me in absolute stitches for an hour or so. Lads, you should read it, especially when it gets to the stage when they discover the IFA have advertised the show on their website. Priceless stuff. I posted the link to a Premier League forum and they're in bits.

Jones should make a play based on that thread. A cyber-night in August.

Quote from: ONeill on August 09, 2007, 10:13:24 PM
I think that's the first time I've been on OWC in two years - in order to read the thread on Kielty - and it had me in absolute stitches for an hour or so. Lads, you should read it, especially when it gets to the stage when they discover the IFA have advertised the show on their website. Priceless stuff. I posted the link to a Premier League forum and they're in bits.

Jones should make a play based on that thread. A cyber-night in August.

;D

Shane, that almost made me laugh, keep trying!

Really that thread would make one despair. The continual denial of the events of that night, far less any significant humility and apology, doesn't augur well for a successful Football for All Campaign (as opposed to the current sham one). Do these twats not ever combine to use their minimal brain cells and wonder why young players en masse are queueing up to declare for FAI teams?

Quote from: T Fearon on August 10, 2007, 10:41:53 AM
The continual denial of the events of that night

By whom? ???

Quote from: T Fearon on August 10, 2007, 10:41:53 AM
Shane, that almost made me laugh, keep trying!

Really that thread would make one despair. The continual denial of the events of that night, far less any significant humility and apology, doesn't augur well for a successful Football for All Campaign (as opposed to the current sham one).

Can you please point out the 'continual denial' on the thread (even a couple of examples will do as I have read the thread and haven't seen any)

Quote from: T Fearon on August 10, 2007, 10:41:53 AM
Do these twats not ever combine to use their minimal brain cells and wonder why young players en masse are queueing up to declare for FAI teams?

Sorry 3 players declared none of whom have actually played for the RoI, hardly 'en masse'? Given the number of English players in the RoI setup you could use your argument to say that English players are queuing up 'en masse' to play for the RoI but that would be just as nonsensical.

denial eg post 165
"In what way do you think that repeating a load of lies and stereotypes, which weren't even true when the play was written, is going to help people to understand 'what a great place Windsor is to be now'?"

followed up by
No denial in post 165 who in no way is championing the play

"as someone who was there and, I am ashamed to say, indulged in certain chanting that now makes me cringe I hope the revisionists don't win out - there was widespread racist and sectarian chanting - end of."

Sammy what we need to see is a full acceptance that on that shameful night, the following occured

1.The worst scenes of sectarianism , engaged in by the majority of the crowd,at any sporting event ever in this island

2. Shouts of Trick and Treat continually heard.

If this is humbly and unanimously acknowledged by OWC, as opposed to being blamed on a so called small minority, Rangers Fans, visitors from outer space, then we might, just might start to get somewhere.

Quote from: Main Street on August 10, 2007, 10:49:49 AM
denial eg post 165
"In what way do you think that repeating a load of lies and stereotypes, which weren't even true when the play was written, is going to help people to understand 'what a great place Windsor is to be now'?"

followed up by
No denial in post 165 who in no way is championing the play

"as someone who was there and, I am ashamed to say, indulged in certain chanting that now makes me cringe I hope the revisionists don't win out - there was widespread racist and sectarian chanting - end of."

I'm obviously missing something. One of those posts is talking about the current situation and one about the situation in 93, therefore (not surprisingly) they have a different perspective. Neither of them in any way try to deny the events in 93 (in fact the second one mentions joining in).

Quote from: T Fearon on August 10, 2007, 10:51:55 AM
Sammy what we need to see is a full acceptance that on that shameful night, the following occured

1.The worst scenes of sectarianism , engaged in by the majority of the crowd,at any sporting event ever in this island

Lie

Quote from: T Fearon on August 10, 2007, 10:51:55 AM
2. Shouts of Trick and Treat continually heard.

Disgusting lie

I take it from your prevarication that there isn't even one post the denies the events, yet in your previous post you talk about 'contnual denial'?

Quote from: T Fearon on August 10, 2007, 10:51:55 AM

1.The worst scenes of sectarianism , engaged in by the majority of the crowd,at any sporting event ever in this island

Surely that shameful accolade goes to the infamous match in 1948 when Linfield supporters invaded during a match with Belfast Celtic and broke Jimmy Jones leg.

Tony, there is no doubt there was a lot of sectarianism on display that night.
It is s problem that everyone who was there was accused of it (i wasnt there that night myself) in some quarters.

The fact is there was an increased core of people at that time who would regularly engage in songs like the billy boys etc at games, and at that period in time (pretty tense in NI terms) it was incresed against the ROI, the typical enemy for some people.

Its also the accusation of Billy Bingham as a bigot that annoys me also.

Quote from: Main Street on August 10, 2007, 10:58:38 AM
Yes Sammy the first poster is in denial
as in
" which weren't even true when the play was written"

The second poster is not in denial as I clearly stated
and it was wriiten 2 posts later

Sorry how does stating that there are lies in the play (which there are) mean that you are in denial about the events that actually happened?

Quote from: SammyG on August 10, 2007, 10:54:32 AM

Quote from: Main Street on August 10, 2007, 10:49:49 AM
denial eg post 165
"In what way do you think that repeating a load of lies and stereotypes, which weren't even true when the play was written, is going to help people to understand 'what a great place Windsor is to be now'?"

followed up by
No denial in post 165 who in no way is championing the play

"as someone who was there and, I am ashamed to say, indulged in certain chanting that now makes me cringe I hope the revisionists don't win out - there was widespread racist and sectarian chanting - end of."

I'm obviously missing something. One of those posts is talking about the current situation and one about the situation in 93, therefore (not surprisingly) they have a different perspective. Neither of them in any way try to deny the events in 93 (in fact the second one mentions joining in).

Yes the denial post is denying it was true when the play was written.
An event can only be true once. If it was true when it happenned then it is true when the play was written.
It doesn't become a lie after 5 years or 10 years.
The poster could have written, true then but not relevant now.

Yes as I stated clearly, post 165,  some 2 posts later, is not in denial.

Quote from: Main Street on August 10, 2007, 11:06:27 AMYes the denial post is denying it was true when the play was written.
An event can only be true once. If it was true when it happenned then it is true when the play was written.
It doesn't become a lie after 5 years or 10 years.
The poster could have written, true then but not relevant now.

It wasn't true when the play was written, that's the whole point of the discussion. Even Marie Jones (who wrote the play) has said that she wasn't at the match and the play is a work of fiction.

Quote from: Main Street on August 10, 2007, 11:06:27 AM
Yes as I stated clearly, post 165,  some 2 posts later, is not in denial.

He's talking about the actual events not the play.

You seem to be having a problem difeerntiating between reality and fiction.

Quote from: Donagh on August 10, 2007, 10:56:32 AM

Quote from: T Fearon on August 10, 2007, 10:51:55 AM

1.The worst scenes of sectarianism , engaged in by the majority of the crowd,at any sporting event ever in this island

Surely that shameful accolade goes to the infamous match in 1948 when Linfield supporters invaded during a match with Belfast Celtic and broke Jimmy Jones leg.

Depends on your definition of sectarianism really.

If we're suggesting examples, how about the time Belfast Celtic supporters invaded the pitch at an Irish Cup semi-final against Glentoran and shots were fired into the Glentoran crowd on the terraces?

Quote from: SammyG on August 10, 2007, 11:13:02 AM
He's talking about the actual events not the play.
You seem to be having a problem difeerntiating between reality and fiction.

I am also writing about the event
I have been clearly writing about denial of the extent of the display of sectarianism and bigotry that night.
That event, Marie has said was true.
Of course the play is made up.

Thou protest too much

What about Neil Lennon and the death threats that both he and his family recieved for the simple reason that he was a Celtic player. And this was in 2002, 9 years after the shameful events in 1993.

Quote from: Main Street on August 10, 2007, 11:18:53 AM

Quote from: SammyG on August 10, 2007, 11:13:02 AM
He's talking about the actual events not the play.
You seem to be having a problem difeerntiating between reality and fiction.

I am also writing about the event
I have been clearly writing about denial of the extent of the display of sectarianism and bigotry that night.

So where are there any posts denying the actual events? The only post you've mentioned about the events, actually states that he was involved, which is hardly denial.

Quote from: Main Street on August 10, 2007, 11:18:53 AM
That event, Marie has said was true.
Of course the play is made up.

Thou protest too much

Sorry are you insane, you say it's true then in the next line you say it's made up?

Quote from: SammyG on August 10, 2007, 11:25:01 AM

Quote from: Main Street on August 10, 2007, 11:18:53 AM

Quote from: SammyG on August 10, 2007, 11:13:02 AM
He's talking about the actual events not the play.
You seem to be having a problem difeerntiating between reality and fiction.

I am also writing about the event
I have been clearly writing about denial of the extent of the display of sectarianism and bigotry that night.

So where are there any posts denying the actual events? The only post you've mentioned about the events, actually states that he was involved, which is hardly denial.

Quote from: Main Street on August 10, 2007, 11:18:53 AM
That event, Marie has said was true.
Of course the play is made up.

Thou protest too much

Sorry are you insane, you say it's true then in the next line you say it's made up?

I wrote very clearly that the event is true, the play is made up.
Can you differentiate?
A fictitious play which contains an event which was true.
Are you denying that the event that Marie claims was true, the Bigotry and sectarianism that night, was not true?

Quote from: Main Street on August 10, 2007, 11:31:18 AMI wrote very clearly that the event is true, the play is made up.

Sorry you've lost me completely. Which event is true?

Quote from: Main Street on August 10, 2007, 11:18:53 AM
Can you differentiate?

I asked first

Quote from: Main Street on August 10, 2007, 11:18:53 AM
A fictitious play which contains an event which was true.

What events does it contain that are true?

Quote from: Main Street on August 10, 2007, 11:18:53 AM
Are you denying that the event that Marie claims was true, the Bigotry and sectarianism that night, was not true?

What event does Marie claim is/are true? Marie Jones has said numerous times (including just last week) that she wasn't at the match and the play is a work of fiction. How can it be a work of fiction and be true?

Quote from: MW on August 10, 2007, 11:16:42 AM

Quote from: Donagh on August 10, 2007, 10:56:32 AM

Quote from: T Fearon on August 10, 2007, 10:51:55 AM

1.The worst scenes of sectarianism , engaged in by the majority of the crowd,at any sporting event ever in this island

Surely that shameful accolade goes to the infamous match in 1948 when Linfield supporters invaded during a match with Belfast Celtic and broke Jimmy Jones leg.

Depends on your definition of sectarianism really.

If we're suggesting examples, how about the time Belfast Celtic supporters invaded the pitch at an Irish Cup semi-final against Glentoran and shots were fired into the Glentoran crowd on the terraces?

1920 is going back a fair bit now MW. Did anyone get their leg broke on those occasions? If you want to start on specific incidents I suppose we could mention the Linfield supporters throwing the hand grenade into the Cliftonville end. Sure it was only a bit of craic eh?

Smashing sport you follow there. Bouncey, bouncey, bouncey as the loyalists might chant...

Quote from: Donagh on August 10, 2007, 12:34:25 PM1920 is going back a fair bit now MW. Did anyone get their leg broke on those occasions? If you want to start on specific incidents I suppose we could mention the Linfield supporters throwing the hand grenade into the Cliftonville end. Sure it was only a bit of craic eh?

Not only a bit of craic but also a complete lie. SOme (so called) Loyalist paramilitaries threw a grenade at the peelers(from outside the ground) which landed in the car park behind the Kop. No Linfield or Cliftonville supporters where involved and in fact the Cliftonville supporters cheered, when it went off as they were 'happy' that the Peelers had been attacked and obviously didn't know that it had missed at that stage.

Quote from: Donagh on August 10, 2007, 12:34:25 PM
Smashing sport you follow there. Bouncey, bouncey, bouncey as the loyalists might chant...

WTF has singing the Bouncy got to do with Loyalism?

Quote from: SammyG on August 10, 2007, 12:38:58 PM
Not only a bit of craic but also a complete lie. SOme (so called) Loyalist paramilitaries threw a grenade at the peelers(from outside the ground) which landed in the car park behind the Kop. No Linfield or Cliftonville supporters where involved and in fact the Cliftonville supporters cheered, when it went off as they were 'happy' that the Peelers had been attacked and obviously didn't know that it had missed at that stage.

Aye, whatever you say Sammy  ::)

Quote from: Donagh on August 10, 2007, 12:34:25 PM
WTF has singing the Bouncy got to do with Loyalism?

Well is that not what they all do - pretend there's a Fenian and do the 'bouncy' on their head? This boyo seems to think so:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vfd9TV8TaI

And another thing, Trick or Treat chants were prolonged and quite clearly audible at Windsor Park from the North of Ireland support. Sammy you'll be telling us next that to-day is Sunday, and making yourself even sillier than you undoubtedly are

Quote from: Donagh on August 10, 2007, 12:42:13 PM

Quote from: SammyG on August 10, 2007, 12:38:58 PM
Not only a bit of craic but also a complete lie. SOme (so called) Loyalist paramilitaries threw a grenade at the peelers(from outside the ground) which landed in the car park behind the Kop. No Linfield or Cliftonville supporters where involved and in fact the Cliftonville supporters cheered, when it went off as they were 'happy' that the Peelers had been attacked and obviously didn't know that it had missed at that stage.

Aye, whatever you say Sammy  ::)

WTF it's what happened?

Quote from: Donagh on August 10, 2007, 12:34:25 PM

Well is that not what they all do - pretend there's a Fenian and do the 'bouncy' on their head? This boyo seems to think so:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vfd9TV8TaI

WTF are you on about. I've just watched that (3 minutes I'll never get back) and it doesn't mention the Bouncy, it's a load of sectarian Rangers shite.

Quote from: 5iveTimes on August 10, 2007, 12:42:54 PM
Yet again Sammy being an apologist fot Loyalism  ;)

When?

Quote from: SammyG on August 10, 2007, 12:49:41 PM

WTF are you on about. I've just watched that (3 minutes I'll never get back) and it doesn't mention the Bouncy, it's a load of sectarian Rangers shite.

2 seconds in. I don't know how you missed it.

Quote from: T Fearon on August 10, 2007, 12:42:45 PM
And another thing, Trick or Treat chants were prolonged and quite clearly audible at Windsor Park from the North of Ireland support. Sammy you'll be telling us next that to-day is Sunday, and making yourself even sillier than you undoubtedly are

Tony

I know you have difficulty with a grasp on reality, at the best of times. So I'll try and explain this slowly, things that happen in a play are not real, unless it is a documentary. If the author clearly states that it is a work of fiction and that she wasn't even at the match, why do you contnue to suggest that it's true?

Quote from: SammyG on August 10, 2007, 12:52:23 PM

Quote from: T Fearon on August 10, 2007, 12:42:45 PM
And another thing, Trick or Treat chants were prolonged and quite clearly audible at Windsor Park from the North of Ireland support. Sammy you'll be telling us next that to-day is Sunday, and making yourself even sillier than you undoubtedly are

Tony

I know you have difficulty with a grasp on reality, at the best of times. So I'll try and explain this slowly, things that happen in a play are not real, unless it is a documentary. If the author clearly states that it is a work of fiction and that she wasn't even at the match, why do you contnue to suggest that it's true?

Tom Humphries in his book about Charlton

"To his shame Bingham stoked the menace of the crowd all week, driving the temperature on the night past which was tolerable by waving his arms in emcouragement as the crowd sang 'The Billy Boys' & 'The Sash'"

"Those who travelled to the game will remember the cold and the hostility. Andy Townsend wrote afterwords that he heard a fan distinctly yell before kick-off "' hey, Townsend, you fenian scum. I hope your mother dies of cancer". Other supporters shouted about sectarian atrocities: uff, the billy boys & 'trick or treat'. Billy Bingham in his last match for Northern Ireland, pointed to the Republic players as he called on the crowd to increase the volume of the 'Billy Boys' song."

If you dont think Billy was trying to whip the crowd into sectarian frenzy you have  a "loyalist blinkered view".

dead on

Quote from: Donagh on August 10, 2007, 12:51:33 PM

Quote from: SammyG on August 10, 2007, 12:49:41 PM

WTF are you on about. I've just watched that (3 minutes I'll never get back) and it doesn't mention the Bouncy, it's a load of sectarian Rangers shite.

2 seconds in. I don't know how you missed it.

Sorry I didnt turn my speakers on in time to catch the 2 seconds. So because some cnut sings the words bouncy at the start of a sectarian song (not even the same song as sung by football supporters) that means that everybody who sings the football version supports sectarian murder. Right got that,
So, in Donagh world, all these Penn State fans are sectarian bigots

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=uW64adzUCgk (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=uW64adzUCgk)

Quote from: SammyG on August 10, 2007, 01:03:46 PM

Quote from: Donagh on August 10, 2007, 12:51:33 PM

Quote from: SammyG on August 10, 2007, 12:49:41 PM

WTF are you on about. I've just watched that (3 minutes I'll never get back) and it doesn't mention the Bouncy, it's a load of sectarian Rangers shite.

2 seconds in. I don't know how you missed it.

Sorry I didnt turn my speakers on in time to catch the 2 seconds. So because some cnut sings the words bouncy at the start of a sectarian song (not even the same song as sung by football supporters) that means that everybody who sings the football version supports sectarian murder. Right got that,
So, in Donagh world, all these Penn State fans are sectarian bigots

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=uW64adzUCgk (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=uW64adzUCgk)

I didn't say that but do you find it a bit strange that it's included in the loyalist diatribe I posted above?

Quote from: Donagh on August 10, 2007, 12:55:15 PMTom Humphries in his book about Charlton

I think we may have a clue as to the authors leanings

Quote from: Donagh on August 10, 2007, 12:55:15 PM
"To his shame Bingham stoked the menace of the crowd all week, driving the temperature on the night past which was tolerable by waving his arms in emcouragement as the crowd sang 'The Billy Boys' & 'The Sash'"

Completely untrue and can be proven very simply by looking at the video. BB only waved at the crowd once and that was when they sang One Team in Ireland. This was in direct response to Charlton doing the same thing in Dublin. For some reason when BB does it he's a sectarian bigot, when Charlton does it he's a national hero.

Quote from: Donagh on August 10, 2007, 12:55:15 PM
"Those who travelled to the game will remember the cold and the hostility. Andy Townsend wrote afterwords that he heard a fan distinctly yell before kick-off "' hey, Townsend, you fenian scum. I hope your mother dies of cancer". Other supporters shouted about sectarian atrocities: uff, the billy boys & 'trick or treat'.

Interesting that none of these incidents were mentioned until these people had books to sell. If that had happened you would have thought they would have mentioned it at the time.

Quote from: Donagh on August 10, 2007, 12:55:15 PM
Billy Bingham in his last match for Northern Ireland, pointed to the Republic players as he called on the crowd to increase the volume of the 'Billy Boys' song."

Complete and total lie, which as previously discussed can be easily shown by having a look at the video.

Quote from: Donagh on August 10, 2007, 01:06:44 PM
I didn't say that but do you find it a bit strange that it's included in the loyalist diatribe I posted above?

I found all of the video a 'bit strange' to say the least. I've just no idea what it has to do with anything that we're discussing. If you want to have a discussion on condemning sectarianism in the old firm, it would be a f**king long thread.

Sammy this play is based on true real life events, is the shameful sectarianism at Windsor Park on that night in November 1993 (I'm beginning to have a Franki Valli and the Four Seasons moment here). Shouts of Trick or Treat were clearly heard at Windsor Park that night..fact.

The only time the play stretches one's credibility level is when a member of the sectarian North of Ireland support comes to his senses and supports the real Ireland team. This is where Miss Jones (cue Rising Damp moment) most definitely employs poetic licence

Quote from: Donagh on August 10, 2007, 12:34:25 PM
1920 is going back a fair bit now MW.

So's 1948 in my book. But anyway, Tony did say 'ever', which was what you joined in with...

Quote
Did anyone get their leg broke on those occasions?

Hmm, attempted murder or grievous bodily harm more serious? Debateable I guess...

Quote
If you want to start on specific incidents

Er, no, you and Tony started on specific incidents.

Quote
I suppose we could mention the Linfield supporters throwing the hand grenade into the Cliftonville end.

You could but you'd be lying through your teeth. UDA/UFF scumbags threw a grenade from behind the ground at the Cliftonville fans, and it thankfully landed at the back of the Kop.

Quote
Sure it was only a bit of craic eh?

Sorry, what the f**k? Where in the name of Cleary have you picked up the idea that I see this attempted murder in any other light than the utmost seriousness? ???

Quote
Bouncey, bouncey, bouncey as the loyalists might chant...

???

Quote from: Donagh on August 10, 2007, 12:42:13 PM

Quote
WTF has singing the Bouncy got to do with Loyalism?

Well is that not what they all do - pretend there's a Fenian and do the 'bouncy' on their head? This boyo seems to think so:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vfd9TV8TaI

No it isn't what "they all do" you absolute f**king idiot.

The 'bouncy' is a fairly childish song that's been around for years at football matches and is sung at NI matches with absolutely no offensive lyrics whatsoever. Some loyalist pricks have developed their own perverted version of it - and suddenly in your twisted mind you think we're all singing about (cue your favourite word) 'Fenians'.

Utterly perverse.

Quote from: T Fearon on August 10, 2007, 01:26:30 PM
Sammy this play is based on true real life events,is the shameful sectarianism at Windsor Park on that night in November 1993 (I'm beginning to have a Franki Valli and the Four Seasons moment here).

So you know better that the person who wrote the play, who says that it isn't, right good glad we've got that sorted out

Quote from: T Fearon on August 10, 2007, 01:26:30 PM
Shouts of Trick or Treat were clearly heard at Windsor Park that night..fact.

Fact and fiction getting blurred again Tony. This happens in the play, it did not happen at the match

Quote from: T Fearon on August 10, 2007, 01:26:30 PM
The only time the play stretches one's credibility level is when a member of the sectarian North of Ireland support comes to his senses and supports the real Ireland team. This is where Miss Jones (cue Rising Damp moment) most definitely employs poetic licence

You're right it is unlikely that a football supporter would give up and go and support rugby.

Quote from: SammyG on August 10, 2007, 01:37:26 PM
[You're right it is unlikely that a football supporter would give up and go and support rugby.

To be fair he did say a "North of Ireland supporter" - and North of Ireland were a rubgy team back then. So I guess there are quite a few former North of Ireland supporters to be found among the Ireland support... ;)

Quote from: 5iveTimes on August 10, 2007, 01:39:09 PM
Sammy are you unwilling to admit that any Sectarian chanting takes place in Windsor?

Of course it did, when has anybody ever said anything different?

Quote from: Donagh on August 10, 2007, 12:55:15 PM

Quote from: SammyG on August 10, 2007, 12:52:23 PM

Quote from: T Fearon on August 10, 2007, 12:42:45 PM
And another thing, Trick or Treat chants were prolonged and quite clearly audible at Windsor Park from the North of Ireland support. Sammy you'll be telling us next that to-day is Sunday, and making yourself even sillier than you undoubtedly are

Tony

I know you have difficulty with a grasp on reality, at the best of times. So I'll try and explain this slowly, things that happen in a play are not real, unless it is a documentary. If the author clearly states that it is a work of fiction and that she wasn't even at the match, why do you contnue to suggest that it's true?

Tom Humphries in his book about Charlton

"To his shame Bingham stoked the menace of the crowd all week, driving the temperature on the night past which was tolerable by waving his arms in emcouragement as the crowd sang 'The Billy Boys' & 'The Sash'"

"Those who travelled to the game will remember the cold and the hostility. Andy Townsend wrote afterwords that he heard a fan distinctly yell before kick-off "' hey, Townsend, you fenian scum. I hope your mother dies of cancer". Other supporters shouted about sectarian atrocities: uff, the billy boys & 'trick or treat'. Billy Bingham in his last match for Northern Ireland, pointed to the Republic players as he called on the crowd to increase the volume of the 'Billy Boys' song."

Yea, because you'll never find wild inaccuracies and downright lies in football biographies/autobigographies ::)

Take the Dunphy-ghostwritten Keane autobiography: Keane apparently was shocked that the sectarianism in the stands was as bad as the terraces (actually, the terraces were closed that night); Linfield had recently signed their first ever Catholic player who wasn't popular and being black didn't help, and Linfield sacked their manager soon after (actually, the player he seems to have been referring to, Antoine Coly, wasn't Linfield's first Catholic player, had been signed in 1988 for one season, had been a cult hero among the bluedogs, Roy Coyle resigned in 1990 having been beaten 6 times by Glentoran in one season).

Quote from: Donagh on August 10, 2007, 12:55:15 PM

Quote from: SammyG on August 10, 2007, 12:52:23 PM

Quote from: T Fearon on August 10, 2007, 12:42:45 PM
And another thing, Trick or Treat chants were prolonged and quite clearly audible at Windsor Park from the North of Ireland support. Sammy you'll be telling us next that to-day is Sunday, and making yourself even sillier than you undoubtedly are

Tony

I know you have difficulty with a grasp on reality, at the best of times. So I'll try and explain this slowly, things that happen in a play are not real, unless it is a documentary. If the author clearly states that it is a work of fiction and that she wasn't even at the match, why do you contnue to suggest that it's true?

Tom Humphries in his book about Charlton

"To his shame Bingham stoked the menace of the crowd all week, driving the temperature on the night past which was tolerable by waving his arms in emcouragement as the crowd sang 'The Billy Boys' & 'The Sash'"

"Those who travelled to the game will remember the cold and the hostility. Andy Townsend wrote afterwords that he heard a fan distinctly yell before kick-off "' hey, Townsend, you fenian scum. I hope your mother dies of cancer". Other supporters shouted about sectarian atrocities: uff, the billy boys & 'trick or treat'. Billy Bingham in his last match for Northern Ireland, pointed to the Republic players as he called on the crowd to increase the volume of the 'Billy Boys' song."

I like Tom Humphries, his writing on the 2002 World Cup was excellent, but I do believe that last sentence on Billy Bingham to be wrong. Humphries has admitted to having Republican sympathies, maybe it clouded his judgement slightly.

 ???

Quote from: MW on August 10, 2007, 01:36:40 PM
No it isn't what "they all do" you absolute f**king idiot.

Resorting to personal abuse now MW, now why doesn't that surprise. ::)  If you can't behave like a grown-up you should take your senseless bigotry back to the OWC cesspit.

Quote from: Yer Ma on August 10, 2007, 02:08:18 PM

I like Tom Humphries, his writing on the 2002 World Cup was excellent, but I do believe that last sentence on Billy Bingham to be wrong. Humphries has admitted to having Republican sympathies, maybe it clouded his judgement slightly.

WTF are you on?

Quote from: Donagh on August 10, 2007, 02:49:54 PM

Quote from: Yer Ma on August 10, 2007, 02:08:18 PM

I like Tom Humphries, his writing on the 2002 World Cup was excellent, but I do believe that last sentence on Billy Bingham to be wrong. Humphries has admitted to having Republican sympathies, maybe it clouded his judgement slightly.

WTF are you on?

Well I had a fry this morning, and a cup of tea. But didn't get any lunch.

Quote from: Yer Ma on August 10, 2007, 02:55:06 PM

Quote from: Donagh on August 10, 2007, 02:49:54 PM

Quote from: Yer Ma on August 10, 2007, 02:08:18 PM

I like Tom Humphries, his writing on the 2002 World Cup was excellent, but I do believe that last sentence on Billy Bingham to be wrong. Humphries has admitted to having Republican sympathies, maybe it clouded his judgement slightly.

WTF are you on?

Well I had a fry this morning, and a cup of tea. But didn't get any lunch.

Maybe it clouded your judgement slightly

Quote from: Donagh on August 10, 2007, 02:49:05 PM

Quote from: MW on August 10, 2007, 01:36:40 PM
No it isn't what "they all do" you absolute f**king idiot.

Resorting to personal abuse now MW, now why doesn't that surprise. ::)  If you can't behave like a grown-up you should take your senseless bigotry back to the OWC cesspit.

If you're talking like an idiot, I'll call you an idiot. Claiming that singing about assaulting Catholics is what "they all do" in relation to 'the bouncy' being sung at NI matches is idiotic. In the extreme.

And what precisely have I been bigoted about now, in your fevered imagination? ::)

Sammy is it true there were chants of 'Trick or Treat' from the home fans?

It is dubious whether or not Bingham was a bigot or just simply a hateful little bastard but there's no doubt that all those hateful bastards, in the stands, terraces, on the pitch and in the dugout that night would have loved to deny the real Irish team from its righful place in USA 94 and Mc Loughlin's wonder strike sure did silence the whole f**king lot of them.  ;D

Quote from: MW on August 10, 2007, 03:09:17 PM

Quote from: Donagh on August 10, 2007, 02:49:05 PM

Quote from: MW on August 10, 2007, 01:36:40 PM
No it isn't what "they all do" you absolute f**king idiot.

Resorting to personal abuse now MW, now why doesn't that surprise. ::)  If you can't behave like a grown-up you should take your senseless bigotry back to the OWC cesspit.

If you're talking like an idiot, I'll call you an idiot. Claiming that singing about assaulting Catholics is what "they all do" in relation to 'the bouncy' being sung at NI matches is idiotic. In the extreme.

And what precisely have I been bigoted about now, in your fevered imagination? ::)

It's a topic that has been discussed on here before and as I remember there were very plausible explanations of where it originates from. Please try to remember that we try to keep a higher standard here than that sewer you normally like to wallow in, there's a good chap.

Quote from: Donagh on August 10, 2007, 03:15:41 PM

Quote from: MW on August 10, 2007, 03:09:17 PM

Quote from: Donagh on August 10, 2007, 02:49:05 PM

Quote from: MW on August 10, 2007, 01:36:40 PM
No it isn't what "they all do" you absolute f**king idiot.

Resorting to personal abuse now MW, now why doesn't that surprise. ::)  If you can't behave like a grown-up you should take your senseless bigotry back to the OWC cesspit.

If you're talking like an idiot, I'll call you an idiot. Claiming that singing about assaulting Catholics is what "they all do" in relation to 'the bouncy' being sung at NI matches is idiotic. In the extreme.

And what precisely have I been bigoted about now, in your fevered imagination? ::)

It's a topic that has been discussed on here before and as I remember there were very plausible explanations of where it originates from. Please try to remember that we try to keep a higher standard here than that sewer you normally like to wallow in, there's a good chap.

No it was a topic that was discussed before and your only 'link' was some American nutter (who probably couldn't find Belfast on a map with Belfast written on it in big letters) who you quoted to back up your bizarre prejudices. I think you even tried to equate it to the attack on Robert Hamill, until it was pointed out the the bouncy had been done for about 15-20 years before the attack and was also used alll over the world.

Quote from: Donagh on August 10, 2007, 03:15:41 PM

Quote from: MW on August 10, 2007, 03:09:17 PM

Quote from: Donagh on August 10, 2007, 02:49:05 PM

Quote from: MW on August 10, 2007, 01:36:40 PM
No it isn't what "they all do" you absolute f**king idiot.

Resorting to personal abuse now MW, now why doesn't that surprise. ::)  If you can't behave like a grown-up you should take your senseless bigotry back to the OWC cesspit.

If you're talking like an idiot, I'll call you an idiot. Claiming that singing about assaulting Catholics is what "they all do" in relation to 'the bouncy' being sung at NI matches is idiotic. In the extreme.

And what precisely have I been bigoted about now, in your fevered imagination? ::)

It's a topic that has been discussed on here before and as I remember there were very plausible explanations of where it originates from.

No, there were no plausuble 'explanations' whatsoever that linked the song to sectarian assault.

Quote
Please try to remember that we try to keep a higher standard here than that sewer you normally like to wallow in, there's a good chap.

What on earth are you on about now? What 'sewer'? ???

Now any chance of you developing enough backbone to answer my question:

Quote from: MW on August 10, 2007, 03:09:17 PM
And what precisely have I been bigoted about now, in your fevered imagination? ::)

Quote from: SammyG on August 10, 2007, 03:19:33 PM
No it was a topic that was discussed before and your only 'link' was some American nutter (who probably couldn't find Belfast on a map with Belfast written on it in big letters) who you quoted to back up your bizarre prejudices. I think you even tried to equate it to the attack on Robert Hamill, until it was pointed out the the bouncy had been done for about 15-20 years before the attack and was also used alll over the world.

Now Sammy, with your track record of imagining and inventing things from nothing, I doubt anyone is going to accept your word for it. Now unless you can produce some evidence to support your claims, I'd say you are nothing but a liar.

Quote from: Donagh on August 10, 2007, 03:32:10 PM

Quote from: SammyG on August 10, 2007, 03:19:33 PM
No it was a topic that was discussed before and your only 'link' was some American nutter (who probably couldn't find Belfast on a map with Belfast written on it in big letters) who you quoted to back up your bizarre prejudices. I think you even tried to equate it to the attack on Robert Hamill, until it was pointed out the the bouncy had been done for about 15-20 years before the attack and was also used alll over the world.

Now Sammy, with your track record of imagining and inventing things from nothing, I doubt anyone is going to accept your word for it. Now unless you can produce some evidence to support your claims, I'd say you are nothing but a liar.

Pathetic Donagh, are you now trying to claim that you didn't say it?

Quote from: SammyG on August 10, 2007, 03:19:33 PM

No it was a topic that was discussed before and your only 'link' was some American nutter (who probably couldn't find Belfast on a map with Belfast written on it in big letters) who you quoted to back up your bizarre prejudices. I think you even tried to equate it to the attack on Robert Hamill, until it was pointed out the the bouncy had been done for about 15-20 years before the attack and was also used alll over the world.

Donagh inhabits a mental universe where events can be changed and moulded into whatever 'facts' he would like; where he can pick up any old piece of hearsay he likes the sound of and decide that from here on in, it's gospel.

Take his wierd claim about the 1992 attack. There's a total consensus that what happened that night was that UDA/UFF terrorists threw a grenade from Midgely Park which thankfully landed at the back of the Kop. Yet he's managed to twist this into Linfield fans throwing a grenade. What can you do faced with a mind like that? FFS at least Tony only does it on some sort of bizarre extended wind-up...

Quote from: MW on August 10, 2007, 03:29:28 PM


What on earth are you on about now? What 'sewer'? ???

Now any chance of you developing enough backbone to answer my question:

MW, when someone resorts to throwing uncalled for personal abuse my direction they shouldn't expect any courtesy in return. You should be proud of yourself – in my seven years on this Board only that other sewer rat from OWC has reached such dizzying heights.

Quote from: SammyG on August 10, 2007, 03:37:00 PM

Quote from: Donagh on August 10, 2007, 03:32:10 PM

Quote from: SammyG on August 10, 2007, 03:19:33 PM
No it was a topic that was discussed before and your only 'link' was some American nutter (who probably couldn't find Belfast on a map with Belfast written on it in big letters) who you quoted to back up your bizarre prejudices. I think you even tried to equate it to the attack on Robert Hamill, until it was pointed out the the bouncy had been done for about 15-20 years before the attack and was also used alll over the world.

Now Sammy, with your track record of imagining and inventing things from nothing, I doubt anyone is going to accept your word for it. Now unless you can produce some evidence to support your claims, I'd say you are nothing but a liar.

Pathetic Donagh, are you now trying to claim that you didn't say it?

As I didn't claim anything of the sort, I am denying it Sammy.

Quote from: Donagh on August 10, 2007, 03:41:08 PM

Quote from: SammyG on August 10, 2007, 03:37:00 PM

Quote from: Donagh on August 10, 2007, 03:32:10 PM

Quote from: SammyG on August 10, 2007, 03:19:33 PM
No it was a topic that was discussed before and your only 'link' was some American nutter (who probably couldn't find Belfast on a map with Belfast written on it in big letters) who you quoted to back up your bizarre prejudices. I think you even tried to equate it to the attack on Robert Hamill, until it was pointed out the the bouncy had been done for about 15-20 years before the attack and was also used alll over the world.

Now Sammy, with your track record of imagining and inventing things from nothing, I doubt anyone is going to accept your word for it. Now unless you can produce some evidence to support your claims, I'd say you are nothing but a liar.

Pathetic Donagh, are you now trying to claim that you didn't say it?

As I didn't claim anything of the sort, I am denying it Sammy.

Sorry it must have been somebody else using the name Donagh.

Quote from: MW on August 10, 2007, 03:37:12 PM
Donagh inhabits a mental universe where events can be changed and moulded into whatever 'facts' he would like; where he can pick up any old piece of hearsay he likes the sound of and decide that from here on in, it's gospel.

Take his wierd claim about the 1992 attack. There's a total consensus that what happened that night was that UDA/UFF terrorists threw a grenade from Midgely Park which thankfully landed at the back of the Kop. Yet he's managed to twist this into Linfield fans throwing a grenade. What can you do faced with a mind like that? FFS at least Tony only does it on some sort of bizarre extended wind-up...

'The history of the troubles according to MW and Sammy.' At least Martin Lynch's piece of fiction had a bit of humour.

Quote from: SammyG on August 10, 2007, 03:42:27 PM
Sorry it must have been somebody else using the name Donagh.

Go on then - where's the post where I made all of these claims?

Quote from: Donagh on August 10, 2007, 03:45:00 PM

Quote from: SammyG on August 10, 2007, 03:42:27 PM
Sorry it must have been somebody else using the name Donagh.

Go on then - where's the post where I made all of these claims?

Given that the board has moved (at least) twice since you made the post, it's unlikely that a search will find it and as much as I worship you as an all conquering hero, I don't actually keep a local copy of all your posts.

Quote from: Donagh on August 10, 2007, 03:38:39 PM

Quote from: MW on August 10, 2007, 03:29:28 PM


What on earth are you on about now? What 'sewer'? ???

Now any chance of you developing enough backbone to answer my question:

MW, when someone resorts to throwing uncalled for personal abuse my direction they shouldn't expect any courtesy in return. You should be proud of yourself – in my seven years on this Board only that other sewer rat from OWC has reached such dizzying heights.

You have in recent days called me a bigot more than once and point-blank refused to provide any sort of justification for this unwarranted personal abuse.

I've called you an idiot on this thread because you've made idiotic comments (and wildly illogical comments at that) about both 'the bouncy' and a grenade attack.

You have now called me (and another poster) a "sewer rat".

It think it's crystal clear who is the discourteous, abusive and graceless poster who resorts to personal abuse and hasn't the backbone or decency to back up the accusations he makes. (Clue, it begins with 'D').

You read a lot of personal stuff on internet forums, but sinking to the depths of referring to other posters as "sewer rats" (rather than having the balls to back up what you've said) is a new low.

Well done.

Quote from: Donagh on August 10, 2007, 03:45:00 PM
Go on then - where's the post where I made all of these claims?

Whatever happened to:

Quote from: Donagh on August 10, 2007, 03:38:39 PM
MW, when someone resorts to throwing uncalled for personal abuse my direction they shouldn't expect any courtesy in return.

???

Hypocrisy showing there again, no? ::)

Quote from: Donagh on August 10, 2007, 03:44:19 PM

Quote from: MW on August 10, 2007, 03:37:12 PM
Donagh inhabits a mental universe where events can be changed and moulded into whatever 'facts' he would like; where he can pick up any old piece of hearsay he likes the sound of and decide that from here on in, it's gospel.

Take his wierd claim about the 1992 attack. There's a total consensus that what happened that night was that UDA/UFF terrorists threw a grenade from Midgely Park which thankfully landed at the back of the Kop. Yet he's managed to twist this into Linfield fans throwing a grenade. What can you do faced with a mind like that? FFS at least Tony only does it on some sort of bizarre extended wind-up...

'The history of the troubles according to MW and Sammy.' At least Martin Lynch's piece of fiction had a bit of humour.

Donagh, yours is the only account of that night that claims a grenade was thrown by Linfield fans. FFS you could just ask the Cliftonville fans on this board - I know of at least one who was there that night.

(Alternatively, you could just resort to name-calling ::))

Quote from: SammyG on August 10, 2007, 11:35:40 AM
[Sorry you've lost me completely. Which event is true?
What event does Marie claim is/are true? Marie Jones has said numerous times (including just last week) that she wasn't at the match and the play is a work of fiction. How can it be a work of fiction and be true?

You are easily lost Sammy.
Who said the work of fiction was true ?
Let's go through this very slowly
The event is the football game, NI v ROI, the real football game, it did happen didn't it?
Playright quote
"There was no doubt that that night in November in Windsor was an overt display of sectarianism that shocked many people, north and south."
The overt display did happen didn't it.?

Quote from: Main Street on August 10, 2007, 04:09:21 PM

Quote from: SammyG on August 10, 2007, 11:35:40 AM
[Sorry you've lost me completely. Which event is true?
What event does Marie claim is/are true? Marie Jones has said numerous times (including just last week) that she wasn't at the match and the play is a work of fiction. How can it be a work of fiction and be true?

You are easily lost Sammy.

I know it's old age

Quote from: Main Street on August 10, 2007, 04:09:21 PM
Who said the work of fiction was true ?

You, Tony, 5Times, stew and various others

Quote from: Main Street on August 10, 2007, 04:09:21 PM
Let's go through this very slowly
The event is the football game, NI v ROI, the real football game, it did happen didn't it?

Fairly sure it happened, even with my withered oul brain, I can just about remember.

Quote from: Main Street on August 10, 2007, 04:09:21 PM
Playright quote
"There was no doubt that that night in November in Windsor was an overt display of sectarianism that shocked many people, north and south."
The overt display did happen didn't it.?

Yes

Quote from: Donagh on August 10, 2007, 02:56:13 PM

Quote from: Yer Ma on August 10, 2007, 02:55:06 PM

Quote from: Donagh on August 10, 2007, 02:49:54 PM

Quote from: Yer Ma on August 10, 2007, 02:08:18 PM

I like Tom Humphries, his writing on the 2002 World Cup was excellent, but I do believe that last sentence on Billy Bingham to be wrong. Humphries has admitted to having Republican sympathies, maybe it clouded his judgement slightly.

WTF are you on?

Well I had a fry this morning, and a cup of tea. But didn't get any lunch.

Maybe it clouded your judgement slightly

I was actually smiling when I was writing it to be fair. However, I still don't think that what he wrote is true. And he has said that he a romantic Republican.

Donagh, since you're demanding answers of Sammy, is there any chance you could tell me what or who I'm supposed to be bigotted against?

Quote from: Yer Ma on August 10, 2007, 04:17:03 PM
I was actually smiling when I was writing it to be fair. However, I still don't think that what he wrote is true. And he has said that he a romantic Republican.

So what makes you think a republican, romantic other otherwise, could care less about either soccer team?

Quote from: MW on August 10, 2007, 04:19:07 PM
Donagh, since you're demanding answers of Sammy, is there any chance you could tell me what or who I'm supposed to be bigotted against?

An apology?

Quote from: Donagh on August 10, 2007, 04:19:24 PM

Quote from: Yer Ma on August 10, 2007, 04:17:03 PM
I was actually smiling when I was writing it to be fair. However, I still don't think that what he wrote is true. And he has said that he a romantic Republican.

So what makes you think a republican, romantic other otherwise, could care less about either soccer team?

I suppose the books he has written following the ROI soccer team. The Legend of Jack Charlton book as well - I don't think that it was based around his fishing, and of course is the source of the quote in question. So I'll take a wild stab and says that he does care.

Quote from: Yer Ma on August 10, 2007, 04:35:11 PM

Quote from: Donagh on August 10, 2007, 04:19:24 PM

Quote from: Yer Ma on August 10, 2007, 04:17:03 PM
I was actually smiling when I was writing it to be fair. However, I still don't think that what he wrote is true. And he has said that he a romantic Republican.

So what makes you think a republican, romantic other otherwise, could care less about either soccer team?

I suppose the books he has written following the ROI soccer team. The Legend of Jack Charlton book as well - I don't think that it was based around his fishing, and of course is the source of the quote in question. So I'll take a wild stab and says that he does care.

No I don't doubt that he's passionate about sport, my question is what does his republicanism have to do with it i.e. why did you mention it - is there some principle of republicanism that I haven't been told off that says one must tell lies about northern soccer people?

Quote from: SammyG on August 10, 2007, 04:15:14 PM
You, Tony, 5Times, stew and various others
[

Thank you Sammy.
How do you interpret my clear statement
"Of course the play is made up."
as saying the work of fiction was true?

Quote from: Donagh on August 10, 2007, 04:19:50 PM

Quote from: MW on August 10, 2007, 04:19:07 PM
Donagh, since you're demanding answers of Sammy, is there any chance you could tell me what or who I'm supposed to be bigotted against?

An apology?

You've accused me of bigotry long before today:

Quote from: Donagh on August 02, 2007, 12:03:24 PM
your own bigotry

Quote from: MW on August 02, 2007, 12:08:35 PM
What, pray tell, do you think I'm 'bigoted' against? ???

Quote from: MW on August 02, 2007, 12:50:10 PM
Now, are you going to tell me what you think I'm 'bigoted' against?

You didn't say what I'm supposed to be bigoted against.

Even though for no reason or justification at all you've also called me a "sewer rat" today (charming), I'm prepared to be the bigger man and say that I'm sorry for letting anger at what you were saying, complete distortions of reality, lead me to calling you an idiot rather than saying your comments were idiotic.

Quote from: Main Street on August 10, 2007, 04:43:53 PM

Quote from: SammyG on August 10, 2007, 04:15:14 PM
You, Tony, 5Times, stew and various others
[

Thank you Sammy.
How do you interpret my clear statement
"Of course the play is made up."
as saying the work of fiction was true?

I was refering to you post a couple of pages back when you said

Quote from: Main Street on August 10, 2007, 11:06:27 AMYes the denial post is denying it was true when the play was written.
An event can only be true once. If it was true when it happenned then it is true when the play was written.
It doesn't become a lie after 5 years or 10 years.
The poster could have written, true then but not relevant now.

Yes as I stated clearly, post 165,  some 2 posts later, is not in denial.

You've since seem to have accepted that the play is a work of fiction but it's taken a while.

Quote from: Donagh on August 10, 2007, 04:43:29 PM

Quote from: Yer Ma on August 10, 2007, 04:35:11 PM

Quote from: Donagh on August 10, 2007, 04:19:24 PM

Quote from: Yer Ma on August 10, 2007, 04:17:03 PM
I was actually smiling when I was writing it to be fair. However, I still don't think that what he wrote is true. And he has said that he a romantic Republican.

So what makes you think a republican, romantic other otherwise, could care less about either soccer team?

I suppose the books he has written following the ROI soccer team. The Legend of Jack Charlton book as well - I don't think that it was based around his fishing, and of course is the source of the quote in question. So I'll take a wild stab and says that he does care.

No I don't doubt that he's passionate about sport, my question is what does his republicanism have to do with it i.e. why did you mention it - is there some principle of republicanism that I haven't been told off that says one must tell lies about northern soccer people?

I've no idea - I'm clutching at straws and being mischievous as to why he wrote what he did about Billy Bingham, as I'm fairly sure it didn't happen. There was a bad atmosphere that night, but I don't think he was directing crowds to sing the Billy Boys louder.

Quote from: MW on August 10, 2007, 04:49:56 PM

Quote from: Donagh on August 10, 2007, 04:19:50 PM

Quote from: MW on August 10, 2007, 04:19:07 PM
Donagh, since you're demanding answers of Sammy, is there any chance you could tell me what or who I'm supposed to be bigotted against?

An apology?

You've accused me of bigotry long before today:

Quote from: Donagh on August 02, 2007, 12:03:24 PM
your own bigotry

Quote from: MW on August 02, 2007, 12:08:35 PM
What, pray tell, do you think I'm 'bigoted' against? ???

Quote from: MW on August 02, 2007, 12:50:10 PM
Now, are you going to tell me what you think I'm 'bigoted' against?

You didn't say what I'm supposed to be bigoted against.

Even though for no reason or justification at all you've also called me a "sewer rat" today (charming), I'm prepared to be the bigger man and say that I'm sorry for letting anger at what you were saying, complete distortions of reality, lead me to calling you an idiot rather than saying your comments were idiotic.

Thanks for that MW, there's no need for us to behaving like louts now. I thought I had explained my comment from the other week – are they not on the same thread you pulled those from?

As for my two comments today –'bigot' and 'sewer rat', they were simply retaliatory abuse in response to your post, with no justification other than provocation.

Quote from: Donagh on August 10, 2007, 04:57:52 PM

Thanks for that MW, there's no need for us to behaving like louts now. I thought I had explained my comment from the other week – are they not on the same thread you pulled those from?

You never did explain what I'm bigoted against. It seems to me you readily throw round accusations of bigotry on one hand and on the other pepper your posts with the term 'Fenian' as if you see the 'perceived Protestant/unionist' poster as some sort of ogre who's mad keen to oppress you and all other Catholics/nationalists :-\

Quote
As for my two comments today –'bigot' and 'sewer rat', they were simply retaliatory abuse in response to your post, with no justification other than provocation.

Moving on from that then I still can't get where you're coming from with regard to 'the bouncy' and to the 1991 grenade attack.

Do you honestly think that 'the bouncy' is derived from sectarian assault? And why?

And do you honestly think Linfield fans threw a grenade at the match rather than the UDA/UFF throwing it from outside the ground? If so, where on earth have you got this account from? It flies in the face of everything that's been said about that night, as I'm sure Cliftonville supporters could tell you. I'm genuinely amazed at this because apart from hearing it from yourself, I've never heard this claim - I thought it was universally recognised what happened that night.

Quote from: SammyG on August 10, 2007, 04:52:54 PM
You've since seem to have accepted that the play is a work of fiction but it's taken a while.

Eh no Sammy, you interpreted that I did not accept that the play was a work of fiction.
In exactly 2 POSTS AFTER
I witnessed your interpretation, I made it more for clear for you.
I wrote  "Of course the play is made up."

Do you interpret that as taking a while for me to clarify the matter?





.

I was at the match that night. I remember the Cliftonville fans cheering when the grenade went off  in the area between the back of the North Stand and the Kop end where the Reds fans were standing. Clearly they, just like the rest of us believed it was an IRA attack.

It wasnt until later on that night on the news that it became clear it was thrown by some Loyalist terrorist thug.

Clearly casting a personality of Kielty's profile and international standing in the role (no disrespect to Dan Gordon who was absolutely brilliant in the role when I saw the play) is raising awareness and was a masterstroke. The play is getting good reviews in even unionist rags like the Newsletter and Belfast Telegraph ;D

Given that he is as well known in the United Kingdom as he is here in Ireland. I would think that this play could easily transfer to London's West End thus spreading the message of Windsor Park sectarianism and mindset to a whole new generation of people.

By the way there's another play that occasionally does the rounds, written by Padraig Coyle on the subject of Belfast Celtic which is equally as informative regarding Windsor Park sectarianism, showing in graphic detail how Jimmy Jones had his leg broken by Linfield hoodlums provoked by the stadium announcer at Windsor Park, the shameful abuse meted out to Donegall Road man (and former Liverpool goalkeeper) Elisha Scott for having the temerity to manage a team called Celtic, the lack of support given to Celtic by the iFA and unionist press which caused Celtic to leave the league for fear of safety of their players. All this happened in the late 40s, which shows that nothing has changed in 60 years. Maybe after the resounding success of A Night in November this play about Belfast Celtic will be resurrected as well ;)

Quote from: Main Street on August 10, 2007, 06:38:30 PM

Quote from: SammyG on August 10, 2007, 04:52:54 PM
You've since seem to have accepted that the play is a work of fiction but it's taken a while.

Eh no Sammy, you interpreted that I did not accept that the play was a work of fiction.
In exactly 2 POSTS AFTER
I witnessed your interpretation, I made it more for clear for you.
I wrote  "Of course the play is made up."

Do you interpret that as taking a while for me to clarify the matter?





.

Yes you spent 4 or 5 pages arguing that it was all true and then accepted it was fiction, I'd call that taking a while.

Anyone know how to get tickets for this show, and when it ends? i tried the grand operah house website but it wouldnt open.

The irony should not be lost that those from within the republican fraternity who have written critical or self-analytical material about that community have tended to then suffer from all sorts of black propaganda, ranging from being called Uncle Toms to condemned as Brit agents, others have ended up in a box.  Marie Jones, by all accounts, goes to NI games and is an enthusiastic part of the support, which either suggests they have got a whole lot better or can't really be all that bad after all.

I'd love to go see this play especially after reading Anne Hailes review in last Saturday's Irish News.  Seems like I would get the best of both worlds. Laugh at owc and get entertained at the same time.

Quote from: T Fearon on August 10, 2007, 06:52:42 PM
Clearly casting a personality of Kielty's profile and international standing in the role

;D ;D Keep 'em coming Tone :D

QuoteBy the way there's another play that occasionally does the rounds, written by Padraig Coyle on the subject of Belfast Celtic which is equally as informative regarding Windsor Park sectarianism, showing in graphic detail how Jimmy Jones had his leg broken by Linfield hoodlums provoked by the stadium announcer at Windsor Park, the shameful abuse meted out to Donegall Road man (and former Liverpool goalkeeper) Elisha Scott for having the temerity to manage a team called Celtic, the lack of support given to Celtic by the iFA and unionist press which caused Celtic to leave the league for fear of safety of their players. All this happened in the late 40s, which shows that nothing has changed in 60 years. Maybe after the resounding success of A Night in November this play about Belfast Celtic will be resurrected as well ;)

Say a word or two about the 1920 Solitude riot complete with gunfire aimed at the Glentoran support, would you, Tony?

What Ann Haliles (a non nationalist) said about A Night in November in her Irish News column on Saturday August 11th 2007.

"Certainly there is rampant sectarian language from this protestant bigot particularly during an accurate portrayal of Windsor Park terraces one night in November 1993 when the Northern Ireland football team played the Republic of Ireland... I later talked to a man who was at that match and was so horrifed by the hatred of the local Ireland crowd he has never been to a Northern Ireland home match since"

Case rested.

Well done Ms Hailes for acknowledging facts and perhaps a few on OWC will follow suit

Quote from: T Fearon on August 14, 2007, 12:20:00 PM
What Ann Haliles (a non nationalist) said about A Night in November in her Irish News column on Saturday August 11th 2007.

"Certainly there is rampant sectarian language from this protestant bigot particularly during an accurate portrayal of Windsor Park terraces one night in November 1993 when the Northern Ireland football team played the Republic of Ireland... I later talked to a man who was at that match and was so horrifed by the hatred of the local Ireland crowd he has never been to a Northern Ireland home match since"

Case rested.

Well done Ms Hailes for acknowledging facts and perhaps a few on OWC will follow suit

Aye, case closed alright. Ms Hailes wasn't at the match but "talked to a man who was at the match" ::) Strangely she refers as do many inaccurate accounts to terraces which weren't even open that night...

For the umpteenth time. There was a lot of ugly sectarianism that night from a significant minority. The play strays way beyond this into the realms of pure fiction when dealing with that match (e.g. the supposed 'Trick or Treat' chant).

While I have little respect for Ms Jones's trite sectarian stereotyping, careless myth-making and playing to the gallery (excuse the metaphor), she has ackowledged times have changed in NI football, and in now an NI fan. Since you take her word as gospel how about you take this on board.

By the wat Tony you appear to have missed my question...

Quote from: MW on August 14, 2007, 01:38:39 PM
Aye, case closed alright. Ms Hailes wasn't at the match but "talked to a man who was at the match" ::) Strangely she refers as do many inaccurate accounts to terraces which weren't even open that night...

For the umpteenth time. There was a lot of ugly sectarianism that night from a significant minority. The play strays way beyond this into the realms of pure fiction when dealing with that match (e.g. the supposed 'Trick or Treat' chant).

While I have little respect for Ms Jones's trite sectarian stereotyping, careless myth-making and playing to the gallery (excuse the metaphor), she has ackowledged times have changed in NI football, and in now an NI fan. Since you take her word as gospel how about you take this on board.

Have you been to the play?

No, I know of the storyline, some of its content and have seen extracts from the script.

What I won't do is pay money to see it.

Quote from: MW on August 14, 2007, 05:45:26 PM
No, I know of the storyline, some of its content and have seen extracts from the script.

What I won't do is pay money to see it.

Sounds interesting.
I'd like to see it if it came down south
And yes I KNOW ITS A WORK OF FICTION!!

QuoteWhat I won't do is pay money to see it.

Not unlike Ms Halles,
she did some research, wouldn't pay money for a ticket
except she went to the play.


"I later talked to a man who was at that match and was so horrifed by the hatred of the local Ireland crowd he has never been to a Northern Ireland home match since"
Is that so unbelievable?
Why don't you just get over being so touchy about every documented memory from that night that does not exactly mirrors yours.

Focus on critique of the play's merits/relevence but it would help with credibility if you have seen it.
Otherwise it looks like a FatherTeds and Dougal cinema protest to me.

Quote from: Main Street on August 14, 2007, 06:07:30 PM

QuoteWhat I won't do is pay money to see it.

Not unlike Ms Halles,
she did some research, wouldn't pay money for a ticket
except she went to the play.


"I later talked to a man who was at that match and was so horrifed by the hatred of the local Ireland crowd he has never been to a Northern Ireland home match since"
Is that so unbelievable?
Why don't you just get over being so touchy about every documented memory from that night that does not exactly mirrors yours.

Focus on critique of the play's merits/relevence but it would help with credibility if you have seen it.
Otherwise it looks like a FatherTeds and Dougal cinema protest to me.

Oh there's certainly a "Father Ted" feel to this, but not in the way you and certain others see it.

Namely, you prefer to rely on an account by someone who went to see a play written by someone who wasn't at the match, rather than rely on the recollection of someone who was at the match in question.

Well here's another intervention from someone who was at the match, though hasn't seen the play.  Whilst my memory is by no means perfect and everyone is selective to a certain extent as to what makes an impact on them and what passes them by, one aspect from this thread particularly caught my attention.
On the first page of this thread, Fearon states that at the match:
"Shouts of Trick and Treat [were] continually heard"
Now I can't say unequivocally that nobody in the crowd shouted something similar at some stage, but I am absolutely certain that there were no such "continual" shouts at any stage.

Therefore, I am equally certain that Fearon (not for the first time) is gratuitously repeating a lie, because it suits his bigoted agenda. But it's only by reading further through the thread that I realise where this foul allegation originated: Jones's play.

To paraphrase the Maxwell Scott character in 'The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance':
"This is the north, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."

I find the reaction surreal in the true meaning of the word.

Critcizing a play that they have not seen with the main criticism of the play that it was written by someone who wasn't at the game.

Quote from: Main Street on August 14, 2007, 08:37:24 PM
I find the reaction surreal in the true meaning of the word.

Critcizing a play that they have not seen with the main criticism of the play that it was written by someone who wasn't at the game.

I can't speak for others, but my gripe is not that the author was not at the game, nor that she consequently used her imagination to create a work of fiction based on the game.

Rather, it is that certain people take the events depicted in the play as being factual, or representative, when the actual events were rather more complex.

Even worse is when this lack of understanding is deliberately fostered and manipulated by bigots with an agenda, like the originator of this thread.

P.S. I don't know how many other plays Fearon attends every year, but I assume it's few, if any at all. Otherwise, he'd need a Message Board to himself for all the threads he's start, if this particular play is anything to go by.  Then again, maybe the fat freeloader isn't able to get his hands on free tickets for the theatre...

Quote from: Main Street on August 14, 2007, 06:07:30 PM

QuoteWhat I won't do is pay money to see it.

Not unlike Ms Halles,
she did some research, wouldn't pay money for a ticket
except she went to the play.


"I later talked to a man who was at that match and was so horrifed by the hatred of the local Ireland crowd he has never been to a Northern Ireland home match since"
Is that so unbelievable?
Why don't you just get over being so touchy about every documented memory from that night that does not exactly mirrors yours.

Focus on critique of the play's merits/relevence but it would help with credibility if you have seen it.
Otherwise it looks like a FatherTeds and Dougal cinema protest to me.

One of my major problems with the play is the two-dimensional and often wildly inaccurate picture that reviewers have been left with. And the stretching of artistic licence beyond acceptable limits to introdiuce elements that simply didn't happen, yet have become 'facts' to many people. (as EG says above). I'll need to outline this for you in further detail so will come back to ths in the next day or two.

Anyone know when this play finishes? i might go and see if its as good as the hype.

Quote from: Evil Genius on August 15, 2007, 12:27:52 AM
I can't speak for others, but my gripe is not that the author was not at the game, nor that she consequently used her imagination to create a work of fiction based on the game.

Rather, it is that certain people take the events depicted in the play as being factual, or representative, when the actual events were rather more complex.
Even worse is when this lack of understanding is deliberately fostered and manipulated by bigots with an agenda, like the originator of this thread.

Is your problem with Fearon or the play?
Because Fearon uses it as a wind up therefore condemn the play?

NI theatre goers no doubt will make their own minds up as regards the plays merits  and compare the monologue and delivery to their own experiences, their social interaction and maybe prejudices. No doubt they will read the forward in the programme notes. Theatre critics will make up their minds using the criteria of a play critc.
The Playright has explained the play in laymans terms. The mere fact that she is a fervent enough NI supporter says something in itself or is she going to be heckled as a traitor.

Quote from: Main Street on August 15, 2007, 08:44:48 PM

Quote from: Evil Genius on August 15, 2007, 12:27:52 AM
I can't speak for others, but my gripe is not that the author was not at the game, nor that she consequently used her imagination to create a work of fiction based on the game.

Rather, it is that certain people take the events depicted in the play as being factual, or representative, when the actual events were rather more complex.
Even worse is when this lack of understanding is deliberately fostered and manipulated by bigots with an agenda, like the originator of this thread.

Is your problem with Fearon or the play?
Because Fearon uses it as a wind up therefore condemn the play?


The mere fact that she is a fervent enough NI supporter says something in itself or is she going to be heckled as a traitor.

Nowhere have I "condemned the play". That is because I have not seen the play. Which is why my problem is with bigots like Fearon who attempt to abuse the play, by portraying it as both documentary and current, neither of which it is.

As for Marie Jones herself, there is no doubt that she is opposed to sectarianism, which presumably is why she was prompted by news reports the day after a match which she had not attended, to write a play about sectarianism and football in NI. Fair enough.

However, I find it much more relevant than her writing that some time after she wrote the play, she was persuaded by her sons to attend her first NI football match. And that she has subsequently become a regular fan, both home and away (presumably without being "heckled" by the other NI fans).

Which must mean either that she now no longer cares about sectarianism, or that she enjoys the sectarianism at NI matches, or that the sectarianism of 14 years ago no longer occurs.

I'll leave you to decide which it may be, since the bigoted Fearon conveniently always avoids enlightening us with his usual wisdom, when asked to explain that conundrum.

P.S. I have seen one play by Marie Jones - "Stones in their Pockets" - which was truly excellent, and well worth the worldwide plaudits which it received (imo). However, a study of her portfolio will show that she has also written literally dozens of other works, not one of which (including "A Night in November") has received anything like the same critical or popular acclaim. At least outside Poyntzpass, that is....

Was at the play tonight and the first thing that got to  me was the hordes of people who turned up expecting (wanting) a comedy - and fulfilling that expectation by pissing themselves at some rather lame quips. It was very one-dimensional in that Kielty (brilliant actor) was wasted palying a role that is in reality below his undoubted humour and intelligence. There was the usual woman who was on the verge of pishing herself - a la Full Monty - sitting beside me, butthat was her problem. The fact was that I felt that the message was lost on a lot of people. There is nothing funny in sectarianism - let Jimmy Young do those jokes. It was a serious play about a serious issue. The number of middle-class people who watched that tonight in denial of the subject matter was immense. Paddy is a clever and very funny man but he - as I said - was wasted. The fact is that the play is outdated - as the IFA types in the programme have joy in pointing out. The play - or the masses in attendance - missed the point. Greysteel seven Ireland nil - is not funny.. it is a shocking glimpse of what we we're (are) capable of! By the way, I felt that the fact that this play was really written for the 1994 west Belfast Feile came across as the Prods came off worst. Remember the nightmare that happened in the month prior to that (Shankill etc) .. the hatred at the game did not arise spontaneously... ! Anybody who left the Opera House tonight and all they can say is that it was "a great laugh" - well God help your wit!!!

Hi - thanks 5 times - think you hit the nail on the head in that Kielty is not the man to carry off the play... The masses turned up tonight expecting to piss themselves at Paddy - regardless of the message - and missed the point. The point is that if PK is trying to get into acting, this is a convenient vehicle but this is not a fooking laughing matter.. uo the discerning critics,,, 

Quote from: 5iveTimes on August 16, 2007, 11:31:05 PM
Would the play not be better without Kielty? Are a lot of the audience not there to see him rather than the play?
Maybe Dan Gordon (not the one who plays for Down) was better suited to the role.

No-One does one-dimensional "stereotypical" loyalists better than Dan Gordon ;) Not that good an actor in anything else I have seen.

Quote from: Hurler on the Bitch on August 17, 2007, 12:19:22 AM
Hi - thanks 5 times - think you hit the nail on the head in that Kielty is not the man to carry off the play... The masses turned up tonight expecting to piss themselves at Paddy - regardless of the message - and missed the point. The point is that if PK is trying to get into acting, this is a convenient vehicle but this is not a fooking laughing matter.. uo the discerning critics,,, 

Haven't seen it yet with Kielty but all of the four reviews I read have agreed that he is outstanding in the role – one said he had the audience eating out of the palm of his hand in the second half.

Quote from: 5iveTimes on August 17, 2007, 01:07:08 AM
Are Loyalists anything other than one dimensional?  ;) Or maybe its just the Loyalists who use this board that are one dimensional.

Who are you referring to here? ???

Quote from: MW on August 17, 2007, 09:47:06 AM

Quote from: 5iveTimes on August 17, 2007, 01:07:08 AM
Are Loyalists anything other than one dimensional?  ;) Or maybe its just the Loyalists who use this board that are one dimensional.

Who are you referring to here? ???

I wouldn't be so touchy MW.  Sure there are such things as Protestant and Unionist "death squads" ::) too, don't you know?

How is this play outdated? Didn't Ballymena United supporters chant "You're just a team full of fenians" at Windsor Park last Saturday?

If the real Ireland team was to play at Windsor Park tomorrow does anyone seriously think there would be a dimunition of the hatred and vitriol?

Quote from: T Fearon on August 17, 2007, 10:26:30 AM
How is this play outdated? Didn't Ballymena United supporters chant "You're just a team full of fenians" at Windsor Park last Saturday?

That's a matter of heated debate (i.e. David Jeffrey appears to be the only one who heard this chant), rather than being established fact.

And as you well know the play's outdated because the sort of sectarian singing evident in November 93 has years ago now not been present at NI matches.

Quote
If the real Ireland team was to play at Windsor Park tomorrow does anyone seriously think there would be a dimunition of the hatred and vitriol?

We'll see, the real Ireland team is playing at Windsor next Wednesday 8)

Quote from: MW on August 17, 2007, 10:44:07 AM

Quote from: T Fearon on August 17, 2007, 10:26:30 AM
How is this play outdated? Didn't Ballymena United supporters chant "You're just a team full of fenians" at Windsor Park last Saturday?

That's a matter of heated debate (i.e. David Jeffrey appears to be the only one who heard this chant), rather than being established fact.

And as you well know the play's outdated because the sort of sectarian singing evident in November 93 has years ago now not been present at NI matches.

Quote
If the real Ireland team was to play at Windsor Park tomorrow does anyone seriously think there would be a dimunition of the hatred and vitriol?

We'll see, the real Ireland team is playing at Windsor next Wednesday 8)

Is that an admission that the events as described in the play did infact happen (obviously with some poetic licence)??

Quote from: MW on August 17, 2007, 10:44:07 AM
And as you well know the play's outdated because the sort of sectarian singing evident in November 93 has years ago now not been present at NI matches.

Why all the talk about the play being outdated??
The play is set in 1993 is it not? Its not claiming to be based on the present day.
I dont see that as being an issue at all.

I dont think the year the play is set should be a factor. I went to see 12 angry men a few years back, and the year it was set didnt detract from a great play.

If someone wants to say what happened in the play is true and still happens, thats their issue.

QuoteWhy all the talk about the play being outdated??

That's true. Plays don't get updated to fit into modern life.

Otherwise we'd have The Playboy of the Western World set in amongst gangbangers in LA starring Jessica Alba as Pegeen Mike and Brad Pitt as Christy Mahon.

Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on August 17, 2007, 10:51:24 AM

Quote from: MW on August 17, 2007, 10:44:07 AM

Quote from: T Fearon on August 17, 2007, 10:26:30 AM
How is this play outdated? Didn't Ballymena United supporters chant "You're just a team full of fenians" at Windsor Park last Saturday?

That's a matter of heated debate (i.e. David Jeffrey appears to be the only one who heard this chant), rather than being established fact.

And as you well know the play's outdated because the sort of sectarian singing evident in November 93 has years ago now not been present at NI matches.

Quote
If the real Ireland team was to play at Windsor Park tomorrow does anyone seriously think there would be a dimunition of the hatred and vitriol?

We'll see, the real Ireland team is playing at Windsor next Wednesday 8)

Is that an admission that the events as described in the play did infact happen (obviously with some poetic licence)??

Has anyone denied there was sectarian singing at that match? I certainly haven't, far from it, I've been clear that it did take place.

However for a reviewier to come away thinking there were "stadium-wide chants of Trick or Treat" and "Greysteel 7 Ireland 0" is extremely shoody on Ms Jones's part - I certainly never heard the first chant (and no-one else I've ever talked to who was at the match did either), and I don't even thnk anyone's actually claimed the second really took place.

Quote from: his holiness nb on August 17, 2007, 11:00:25 AM

Quote from: MW on August 17, 2007, 10:44:07 AM
And as you well know the play's outdated because the sort of sectarian singing evident in November 93 has years ago now not been present at NI matches.

Why all the talk about the play being outdated??
The play is set in 1993 is it not? Its not claiming to be based on the present day.
I dont see that as being an issue at all.

I dont think the year the play is set should be a factor. I went to see 12 angry men a few years back, and the year it was set didnt detract from a great play.

If someone wants to say what happened in the play is true and still happens, thats their issue.

The problem comes where an uniformed audience member makes the association "NI fans = Prod bigots" and fixes this in his or her head.

That's one of several problems I have with the concpet of the play. As I've said above, I'll get to a more comprehensive post on this.

Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on August 17, 2007, 11:35:38 AM

QuoteWhy all the talk about the play being outdated??

That's true. Plays don't get updated to fit into modern life.

Otherwise we'd have The Playboy of the Western World set in amongst gangbangers in LA starring Jessica Alba as Pegeen Mike and Brad Pitt as Christy Mahon.

Hmmm. It also seems to the annual July 13th re-enactment of King Billy defeating King James is a bit outdated.

You'll have to come up with a better excuse than that MW.

Quote from: Orior on August 17, 2007, 01:01:14 PM

Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on August 17, 2007, 11:35:38 AM

QuoteWhy all the talk about the play being outdated??

That's true. Plays don't get updated to fit into modern life.

Otherwise we'd have The Playboy of the Western World set in amongst gangbangers in LA starring Jessica Alba as Pegeen Mike and Brad Pitt as Christy Mahon.

Hmmm. It also seems to the annual July 13th re-enactment of King Billy defeating King James is a bit outdated.

You'll have to come up with a better excuse than that MW.

Sorry? What?? ???

When have I ever used the fact the play is outdated" as an excuse? ??? ("excuse" for what exactly, anyway)

When have I said that is my problem with the play ???

Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on August 17, 2007, 11:35:38 AM

QuoteWhy all the talk about the play being outdated??

That's true. Plays don't get updated to fit into modern life.

Otherwise we'd have The Playboy of the Western World set in amongst gangbangers in LA starring Jessica Alba as Pegeen Mike and Brad Pitt as Christy Mahon.

I've seen one or two Shakespearean plays updated into modern settings (and I believe Baz Luhrmann may have had some success with an idea not dissimilar to yours) but hey :P ;)

MW There were widespread reports from people who were in attendance, including a guy on David Dunseath's Talkback show the next day confirming that Trick or Treat chants actually happened.

Now how do you expect anyone to take the FFA campaign seriously or give it a modicum of credibility when you and the vast majority on OWC live in denial... denial that November 1993 happened, denial that Windsor Park hosted a Day of Orange and Unionist Culture, denial that Ballymena United supporters chanted You're just a team full of fenians. In the latter case David Jeffrey was there so he must have heard it.

Quote from: T Fearon on August 17, 2007, 02:48:31 PM
MW There were widespread reports from people who were in attendance, including a guy on David Dunseath's Talkback show the next day confirming that Trick or Treat chants actually happened.

Someone claiming on Talkback that something happened doesn't mean it actually happened - for a good example of this, see your claim on Talkback after the Wales-NI game that NI fans had sung the Billy Boys as the Millennium Stadium - a claim based on tittle tattle on here which ONeill later admitted he was mistaken about, and which even you had to retract. We've also had the classic claim on Talkback that NI fans were singing "Sammy McIlroy's Protestant army" :D These 'Trick of Treat' chants certainly passed me by, as they did any other person I've ever spoken to who was at the match.

Quote
Now how do you expect anyone to take the FFA campaign seriously or give it a modicum of credibility when you and the vast majority on OWC live in denial... denial that November 1993 happened

What are you gibbering on about now? Am I supposed to be claiming that we went straight from October to December that year? ???

Quote
denial that Windsor Park hosted a Day of Orange and Unionist Culture

I think you'll find that you actually thanked me for my honesty in saying that I vaguely remembered some sort of event had taken place back in 1995 ::)

Quote
, denial that Ballymena United supporters chanted You're just a team full of fenians. In the latter case David Jeffrey was there so he must have heard it.

Funny how you accept the word of the Linfield manager as gospel when it suits you. The rest of the time it's "Linfield/IFA bigots" etc ::) I'm not denying anything. Umpteen fans who were at the match are saying it never happened

Quote from: T Fearon on August 17, 2007, 02:48:31 PM
modicum of credibility

Quote

Quote from: MW on August 17, 2007, 03:11:30 PM
your claim on Talkback after the Wales-NI game that NI fans had sung the Billy Boys as the Millennium Stadium - a claim based on tittle tattle on here which ONeill later admitted he was mistaken about, and which even you had to retract. We've also had the classic claim on Talkback that NI fans were singing "Sammy McIlroy's Protestant army" :D These 'Trick of Treat' chants certainly passed me by, as they did any other person I've ever spoken to who was at the match.

Quote


What were you saying about modicum of credibility Tony  ::)

Is there any word of this play making its way onto a bigger stage?

Here is the real piece of theatre from that night in November

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNmBkjXgNIQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNmBkjXgNIQ)

Enjoy

A sweet sweet memory indeed.

I also reckon Hoddle's influence had a lot to do with that sweet strike. After all he was Mc Loughlin's manager at Swindon Town ;)

Their paths never crossed.
McLoughlin's mentor at Swindon was Ossie Ardiles.

Oops old age playing  tricks! Never mind, the Spurs influence was written all over that wonder strike. As well as Ardiles didn't Micky Hazard partner Mc Loughlin in Swindon's midfield?

Ardiles was not partnering McLoughlin at Swindon
Any real Spurs fan would know that Ossie's playing days were well over by then :)