Poll
Question:
DO YOU THINK WINDSOR PARK AND SURROUNDING AREA IS INTIMIDATING FOR CATHOLICS?
Option 1: YES
Option 2: NO
BEEN HAVIN A DEBATE WITH NIFAN AND HE SEEMS TO THINK THAT WINDSOR PARK AND ITS SURROUNDING AREAS R NOT INTIMDATING FOR CATHOLICS
PLEASE VOTE FOR WHAT YOU THINK
I take it only Catholics should vote ;)
Its the surrounding area of the lisburn road that ive claimed is not intimidating.
aah not this old chestnut again
Quote from: nifan on August 03, 2007, 01:56:44 PM
Its the surrounding area of the lisburn road that ive claimed is not intimidating.
WHY WHATS TH OTHER SURROUNDING AREA? I DIDN MENTION ANY NAMES I JUS SAID ITS SURROUNDING AREAS
What if you're not a soccer supporter and therefore have no call or reason to go to WP? (like me).
I guess this poll would be different if we had a 'national' stadium!
Mind, expect a 'Is Croke Park intimidating to Protestants?' poll shortly.
I talked about the fact that the lisburn road area borders windsor park, you claimed that this was an intimidating area for catholics, i said many catholics lived there etc
that was the argument, have you forgotten it already.
Quote from: Square Ball on August 03, 2007, 01:55:20 PM
I take it only Catholics should vote ;)
Surely it should only be Catholics who've been to WP (or at least know where it is). ;)
IV
Quote from: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on August 03, 2007, 01:59:03 PM
What if you're not a soccer supporter and therefore have no call or reason to go to WP? (like me).
I guess this poll would be different if we had a 'national' stadium!
Mind, expect a 'Is Croke Park intimidating to Protestants?' poll shortly.
ive never been myself but some people on here seem to think that its is the most non sectarian place in the land! im jus tryion to ilustrate that most people find it intimdating
find it intimidating, or think it would be intimidating, theres a significant difference.
You obviously think its intimidating, yet have never been, obviously dont understand much about the local geography or how you can access the stadium etc.
What road where you driving on that made you nervous round the stadium?
Bad Poll, bad subject, dunno why you started it. Are you just trying to grab attention by spouting your title in capitals. How many times have you been to Windsor Park? If you have been, how intimidating was it for you moon-whatever??
I was there once for a Rugby League game - to hear Ireland's Call being sang there was a surreal experience
Quote from: nifan on August 03, 2007, 02:00:31 PM
I talked about the fact that the lisburn road area borders windsor park, you claimed that this was an intimidating area for catholics, i said many catholics lived there etc
that was the argument, have you forgotten it already.
no my argument was windsor was intimidating with areas around like the village and yes the lisburn road! the poll states do u find the windsor park and its surrounding areas intimidating, th results speak volumes i think i rest my case!
Quote from: mooncatiii on August 03, 2007, 02:01:12 PM
IVQuote from: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on August 03, 2007, 01:59:03 PM
What if you're not a soccer supporter and therefore have no call or reason to go to WP? (like me).
I guess this poll would be different if we had a 'national' stadium!
Mind, expect a 'Is Croke Park intimidating to Protestants?' poll shortly.
ive never been myself but some people on here seem to think that its is the most non sectarian place in the land! im jus tryion to ilustrate that most people find it intimdating
You don't half talk some shite. How do you know the make-up of the area if you've never been? Do the hundreds of nationalists who live in the streets around WP feel intimidated and if they do why do you think they choose to live there?
Quote from: mooncatiii on August 03, 2007, 01:52:42 PM
BEEN HAVIN A DEBATE WITH NIFAN AND HE SEEMS TO THINK THAT WINDSOR PARK AND ITS SURROUNDING AREAS R NOT INTIMDATING FOR CATHOLICS
PLEASE VOTE FOR WHAT YOU THINK
If you feel uncomfortable going somewhere - here is a tip - don't f**king go. ;)
Quote from: DirtyDozen12 on August 03, 2007, 02:04:07 PM
Bad Poll, bad subject, dunno why you started it. Are you just trying to grab attention by spouting your title in capitals. How many times have you been to Windsor Park? If you have been, how intimidating was it for you moon-whatever??
if u dont like it then f**k away of from th thread! i was havin a debate and to get every elses opinion i started a poll so as i said go and f**k yourself if u dont like it!
Quote from: SammyG on August 03, 2007, 02:05:53 PM
Do the hundreds of nationalists who live in the streets around WP
Now don't be getting carried away there Sammy...
Quote from: mooncatiii on August 03, 2007, 02:05:35 PMth results speak volumes i think i rest my case!
So out of about 600000 Nationalists you've found 7 who think WP is intimidating (presumably including yourself who doesn't even know where WP is) and this means that you can rest your case. ::)
I was only at it once. My mate dragged my along to see a Liverpool v Linfield friendly a few years back.
My clearest memory of it was walking up the steps in the stand to be confronted with the words ' Tim McCann is a fenian ****' scrawled on the wall. I have to admit laughing to myself at the time but I wouldn't say I left the place thinking I would be back.
Quote from: Long time dead on August 03, 2007, 02:08:05 PM
Quote from: mooncatiii on August 03, 2007, 01:52:42 PM
BEEN HAVIN A DEBATE WITH NIFAN AND HE SEEMS TO THINK THAT WINDSOR PARK AND ITS SURROUNDING AREAS R NOT INTIMDATING FOR CATHOLICS
PLEASE VOTE FOR WHAT YOU THINK
If you feel uncomfortable going somewhere - here is a tip - don't f**king go. ;)
im not going thats the point you dick
Quote from: Donagh on August 03, 2007, 02:08:22 PM
Quote from: SammyG on August 03, 2007, 02:05:53 PM
Do the hundreds of nationalists who live in the streets around WP
Now don't be getting carried away there Sammy...
Sorry for being thick but what am I getting carried away with?
Quote from: mooncatiii on August 03, 2007, 02:09:24 PM
Quote from: Long time dead on August 03, 2007, 02:08:05 PM
Quote from: mooncatiii on August 03, 2007, 01:52:42 PM
BEEN HAVIN A DEBATE WITH NIFAN AND HE SEEMS TO THINK THAT WINDSOR PARK AND ITS SURROUNDING AREAS R NOT INTIMDATING FOR CATHOLICS
PLEASE VOTE FOR WHAT YOU THINK
If you feel uncomfortable going somewhere - here is a tip - don't f**king go. ;)
im not going thats the point you dick
So why do you care - and who taught you to turn of Caps Lock all of a sudden. :D
No doubt any catholic would have good cause to fear for his or her safety if identified on certain environs to Windsor Park and indeed in certain parts of the stadium (but not all of it) itself. Like if you were amidst Rathcoole Loyal etc you certainly would be keeping your head down
Quote from: SammyG on August 03, 2007, 02:08:48 PM
Quote from: mooncatiii on August 03, 2007, 02:05:35 PMth results speak volumes i think i rest my case!
So out of about 600000 Nationalists you've found 7 who think WP is intimidating (presumably including yourself who doesn't even know where WP is) and this means that you can rest your case. ::)
ive told u before i do no where it is, i used to drive past goin to uni and as i told you before i didn feel safe drivin past it!
and u have found 4 that think it is not intimidatin obviously including u an nifan and prob gweltah
Quote from: mooncatiii on August 03, 2007, 02:13:25 PM
Quote from: SammyG on August 03, 2007, 02:08:48 PM
Quote from: mooncatiii on August 03, 2007, 02:05:35 PMth results speak volumes i think i rest my case!
So out of about 600000 Nationalists you've found 7 who think WP is intimidating (presumably including yourself who doesn't even know where WP is) and this means that you can rest your case. ::)
ive told u before i do no where it is, i used to drive past goin to uni and as i told you before i didn feel safe drivin past it!
and u have found 4 that think it is not intimidatin obviously including u an nifan and prob gweltah
What did you do at uni, clean the bogs?
Quote from: Long time dead on August 03, 2007, 02:12:08 PM
Quote from: mooncatiii on August 03, 2007, 02:09:24 PM
Quote from: Long time dead on August 03, 2007, 02:08:05 PM
Quote from: mooncatiii on August 03, 2007, 01:52:42 PM
BEEN HAVIN A DEBATE WITH NIFAN AND HE SEEMS TO THINK THAT WINDSOR PARK AND ITS SURROUNDING AREAS R NOT INTIMDATING FOR CATHOLICS
PLEASE VOTE FOR WHAT YOU THINK
If you feel uncomfortable going somewhere - here is a tip - don't f**king go. ;)
im not going thats the point you dick
So why do you care - and who taught you to turn of Caps Lock all of a sudden. :D
well seen as u didn understand f**k of in capitals i thought id try turning them of - f**k of if u dnt like the content of the thread go and read a book or something
Quote from: Long time dead on August 03, 2007, 02:15:21 PM
Quote from: mooncatiii on August 03, 2007, 02:13:25 PM
Quote from: SammyG on August 03, 2007, 02:08:48 PM
Quote from: mooncatiii on August 03, 2007, 02:05:35 PMth results speak volumes i think i rest my case!
So out of about 600000 Nationalists you've found 7 who think WP is intimidating (presumably including yourself who doesn't even know where WP is) and this means that you can rest your case. ::)
ive told u before i do no where it is, i used to drive past goin to uni and as i told you before i didn feel safe drivin past it!
and u have found 4 that think it is not intimidatin obviously including u an nifan and prob gweltah
What did you do at uni, clean the bogs?
very good... u think that 1 up all by yourself! now get back to your 11plus revision
Is it really that hard to type proper words instead of "text speak"
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 03, 2007, 02:20:47 PM
Is it really that hard to type proper words instead of "text speak"
For a p***k that can't spell I'm sure it's impossible. ;D
Quote from: Long time dead on August 03, 2007, 02:22:15 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 03, 2007, 02:20:47 PM
Is it really that hard to type proper words instead of "text speak"
For a p***k that can't spell I'm sure it's impossible. ;D
no it's not impossible but i'll tell you what is impossible sorting out the age long question
"who is your real da?" :o :o
Quote from: SammyG on August 03, 2007, 02:09:54 PM
Quote from: Donagh on August 03, 2007, 02:08:22 PM
Quote from: SammyG on August 03, 2007, 02:05:53 PM
Do the hundreds of nationalists who live in the streets around WP
Now don't be getting carried away there Sammy...
Sorry for being thick but what am I getting carried away with?
Well considering I've highlighted the relevant point, you seem to be attempting a pretty good impression of it.
The streets around Windsor Park consist of Olympia Drive, Olympia Parada, Ebor St, Ebor Parade, Runnymere Dr and Donegal Avenue, Tavannagh St, Benburb St and the lower end of Tates Ave. As you well know and despite your deliberate attempt to give the opposite impression, theses are all predominately loyalist area. A quick glace at either the murals, graffiti, or flags currently adorning these streets will confirm that.
Donegal avenue?
the streets off lisburn road - melrose street, edinburgh street etc are closer than that. Eglantine av etc is closer as well.
Youve no need to go throught he area you are talking about to get there donagh
Quote from: nifan on August 03, 2007, 02:32:02 PM
Donegal avenue?
the streets off lisburn road - melrose street, edinburgh street etc are closer than that. Eglantine av etc is closer as well.
Youve no need to go throught he area you are talking about to get there donagh
Really. I take it that maps have been altered:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ie=UTF8&oe=UTF-8&client=firefox-a&q=Melrose+St,+Belfast+BT9,+United+Kingdom&hl=en&cd=1&sll=54.162434,-3.647461&sspn=9.478247,23.203125&mpnum=0&z=16&iwloc=addr&om=1
For those that don't know, Windsor Park is the big grey bit.
Quote from: Donagh on August 03, 2007, 02:35:58 PM
Quote from: nifan on August 03, 2007, 02:32:02 PM
Donegal avenue?
the streets off lisburn road - melrose street, edinburgh street etc are closer than that. Eglantine av etc is closer as well.
Youve no need to go throught he area you are talking about to get there donagh
Really. I take it that maps have been altered:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ie=UTF8&oe=UTF-8&client=firefox-a&q=Melrose+St,+Belfast+BT9,+United+Kingdom&hl=en&cd=1&sll=54.162434,-3.647461&sspn=9.478247,23.203125&mpnum=0&z=16&iwloc=addr&om=1
For those that don't know, Windsor Park is the big grey bit.
i take it that map puts your argument to the sword!
It's Tates Avenue & the streets that run parallel to it that I think catholics would find intimidating when going to WP from the Lisburn Rd - IMHO
(http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/5944/mapen7.jpg)
Donagh, I apologise, I somehow thought of donegal road.
my point stands that access through edinburgh st etc is through areas with a pretty mixed make up
As for people claiming its in the middle of a loyalist ghetto - one side is industrial esatat, one backs on to a sports centre used by all persuasions and one onto mixed lisburn road - hardly the ghetto
Quote from: mooncatiii on August 03, 2007, 02:43:44 PM
i take it that map puts your argument to the sword!
No actually, though i admit the mistake in my response to donagh.
Okay, let's put it like this. The area on the Windsor side of the railway tracks is predominantly loyalist. The area between Tates, Northwood St and Lisburn Rd is mixed. Access can be gain via the footbridge over the tracks at the end of Great Northern St, however the main route in would be via the loyalist end of Tates.
Id agree donagh - most people would enter via tates.your explanation doesnt sound like the middle of the ghetto claimed by some
Given that plenty of Catholics support the NI soccer team and the ground has also hosted Cliftonville and Dunganon Swifts home European games, and their fans, recently, as well as fans of all the Irish League teams and those teams taking part in the Setanta Cup, the evidence would suggest it isn't intimidating in the least, in a concern for safety kind of way. Oh, and the camogie team training there, happily by all accounts. That's just a few examples.
If Windsor Park is intimidating to away teams and fans in a getting behind the home side sort of way, so what? That would be a good thing, as in sport generally.
Prods in Casement Park, on the other hand ... that would be like the Bernard Manning Fan Club appearing at Notting Hill Carnival.
::)
Quote from: GweylTah on August 03, 2007, 04:25:15 PM
Given that plenty of Catholics support the NI soccer team and the ground has also hosted Cliftonville and Dunganon Swifts home European games, and their fans, recently, as well as fans of all the Irish League teams and those teams taking part in the Setanta Cup, the evidence would suggest it isn't intimidating in the least, in a concern for safety kind of way. Oh, and the camogie team training there, happily by all accounts. That's just a few examples.
If Windsor Park is intimidating to away teams and fans in a getting behind the home side sort of way, so what? That would be a good thing, as in sport generally.
Prods in Casement Park, on the other hand ... that would be like the Bernard Manning Fan Club appearing at Notting Hill Carnival.
::)
Catholics and Prods – that's just about sums up the limits of your thinking.
Gwyltah - i havent been to casement, but many of my friends have offered to take me to a game - to say i wouldnt be welcome is simply untrue, there may be some dicks, but nearly every one i know who goes is fine with "prods"
I have been in WP a few times and the last time was enough for me and that was the Billy Bingham inciting a riot game against the Republic. I have never experienced a worse atmosphere in my life and vowed never to return.
12 or so years on I think that things have improved although that would not be hard but I think I would give it a go if I was home and somebody gave me a free ticket and I had nothing better to do, mind you I wouldnt walk in until the game was underway. ;)
Quote from: stew on August 03, 2007, 06:06:55 PM
I have been in WP a few times and the last time was enough for me and that was the Billy Bingham inciting a riot game against the Republic. I have never experienced a worse atmosphere in my life and vowed never to return.
stew
You're getting as bad as Tony, there's no point repeating lies that have long since been shown to be complete and utter bollix. As you are well aware Billy Bingham never incited anybody, that night or any other time. A quieter, nicer, gentleman (in the old fashioned sense of the word) you could never hope to meet and the fact that fcukwits like yourself try to drag his name through the gutter is sickening.
Quote from: stew on August 03, 2007, 06:06:55 PM
12 or so years on I think that things have improved although that would not be hard but I think I would give it a go if I was home and somebody gave me a free ticket and I had nothing better to do, mind you I wouldnt walk in until the game was underway. ;)
Knob.
I presume I would be safe enough in Frenchpark St (Sráid Dún Gar) once i wore my Ros jersey. :)
Quote from: nifan on August 03, 2007, 05:47:22 PM
Gwyltah - i havent been to casement, but many of my friends have offered to take me to a game - to say i wouldnt be welcome is simply untrue, there may be some dicks, but nearly every one i know who goes is fine with "prods"
Why not go yourself if and when the opportunity arises? And good luck and be safe if you do, and keep the head down. (It was noticeable that the BBC on their recent programme about Catholic and Protestant attitudes didn't risk taking the Linfield supporters to Casement, but rather to Clones - they were probably aware of their Duty of Care to participants in their programme.)
Quote from: Rossfan on August 03, 2007, 07:23:46 PM
I presume I would be safe enough in Frenchpark St (Sráid Dún Gar) once i wore my Ros jersey. :)
That's good to hear.
I had a Gaelic kickabout with some friends on a Sunday morning in some public park near the University in the 80's, nearly started a riot after some nasty natives out for a walk with their bulldogs started to congregate and throw abuse, bottles, even some bulldog shite at us.
Some nice natives (probably the homosexuals) came over to us and told us very nicely that we must be out of our heads because some of the more nasty natives might start to arrive.
Quote from: mooncatiii on August 03, 2007, 02:08:18 PM
Quote from: DirtyDozen12 on August 03, 2007, 02:04:07 PM
Bad Poll, bad subject, dunno why you started it. Are you just trying to grab attention by spouting your title in capitals. How many times have you been to Windsor Park? If you have been, how intimidating was it for you moon-whatever??
if u dont like it then f**k away of from th thread! i was havin a debate and to get every elses opinion i started a poll so as i said go and f**k yourself if u dont like it!
I just dont know what your trying to prove here!!!You are asking if windsor park is intimidating for catholics on a GAA chat forum???!!! Not hard to guess what the results of your poll are going to be eh sunshine???? i could have told you the outcome before you ever started this puke thread!! If you where to start this poll on OWC, what do you think the results would be???
U fuckwit
Quote from: nifan on August 03, 2007, 02:00:31 PM
I talked about the fact that the lisburn road area borders windsor park, you claimed that this was an intimidating area for catholics, i said many catholics lived there etc
that was the argument, have you forgotten it already.
The Lisburn road, particularly around that area, is a hole I'd be afraid to open my mouth in. (It was a few years ago though, has it changed?)
i wouldnt say it's intimidating. Boucher Road is grand as is Lisburn Road and that side of Tates Avenue. WP is no worse than going to Shamrock Park, Mourneview Park, Coleraine Showgrounds just to name a few. Celtic Park in Glasgow is more intimidating esp by Bridgeton Cross (on the London Road) and up by Loudens Tavern.
Quote from: stew on August 03, 2007, 06:06:55 PM
I have been in WP a few times and the last time was enough for me and that was the Billy Bingham inciting a riot game against the Republic.
F**k me, there was a riot at the game? How did I miss that??
Billy Bingham was a disgrace the night they played Ireland, the atmosphere was hateful and he added to the mix with his antics on the sideline. I thought we were going to get killed. I went to that game as someone who pulled for each team when they werent playing one another but came away from it with hate in my heart for the north and Bingham for his theatrics.
I had always respected Bingham up to that point, he was a bit pompous and hoity toity but seemed like a decent skin, that game changed my perspective of both him and his team.
As I said on numerous occasions things seem to have improved and I have moved on from the initial shock at the level of hatred the supporters of the north held for Catholics. The landscape has changed and they have evolved but not to the level of were the owc crew on here suggest they have.
I would go back for a look see but I wouldnt spend a penny to watch them, I would go in late and stay for a while and see for myself what improvements have been made but even then unless they played the ROI in a meaningful game we might never know if things have improved, after all they did abuse a linesman from the republic about a year or so ago so they arent all that evolved are they?
Quote from: SammyG on August 03, 2007, 06:45:55 PM
Quote from: stew on August 03, 2007, 06:06:55 PM
I have been in WP a few times and the last time was enough for me and that was the Billy Bingham inciting a riot game against the Republic. I have never experienced a worse atmosphere in my life and vowed never to return.
stew
You're getting as bad as Tony, there's no point repeating lies that have long since been shown to be complete and utter bollix. As you are well aware Billy Bingham never incited anybody, that night or any other time. A quieter, nicer, gentleman (in the old fashioned sense of the word) you could never hope to meet and the fact that fcukwits like yourself try to drag his name through the gutter is sickening.
Quote from: stew on August 03, 2007, 06:06:55 PM
12 or so years on I think that things have improved although that would not be hard but I think I would give it a go if I was home and somebody gave me a free ticket and I had nothing better to do, mind you I wouldnt walk in until the game was underway. ;)
Knob.
I am not trying to drag anybodies name through the gutter, it is my opinion that Bingham let himself down that night and if he missed the fact that the atmosphere was dreadful he was stupid to boot, his behaviour on the touchline agitated the crowd even more, I was there sammy, I saw and felt this for myself and it is my opinion.
I know a lot of people who thought Bingham let himself down that night, there are plenty of people who agree with me Samuel so I was not lying samuel, i was offering you my perception, my opinion and that was all, this is a discussion board is it not????
One last thing samuel, after some of the lies you have told around here you would do well to shut your mouth on that score because you are one of the biggest liars on the board. That again is just my opinion/perception of you samuel.
Quote from: stew on August 05, 2007, 07:49:53 PMI am not trying to drag anybodies name through the gutter, it is my opinion that Bingham let himself down that night and if he missed the fact that the atmosphere was dreadful he was stupid to boot, his behaviour on the touchline agitated the crowd even more, I was there sammy, I saw and felt this for myself and it is my opinion.
You can't have seen it because it never happened. You are a liar, end of story.
Quote from: stew on August 05, 2007, 07:49:53 PM
I know a lot of people who thought Bingham let himself down that night, there are plenty of people who agree with me Samuel so I was not lying samuel, i was offering you my perception, my opinion and that was all, this is a discussion board is it not????
Where any of the people at the match or do they form there opinion based on shite from people like yourself and TF.
Quote from: stew on August 05, 2007, 07:49:53 PM
One last thing samuel, after some of the lies you have told around here you would do well to shut your mouth on that score because you are one of the biggest liars on the board. That again is just my opinion/perception of you samuel.
Brilliant response, you get caught bullshitting so you call me a liar. I don't suppose you can remind us of some of these lies, I'm supposed to have told.
Quote from: stew on August 05, 2007, 07:39:10 PM
Billy Bingham was a disgrace the night they played Ireland, the atmosphere was hateful and he added to the mix with his antics on the sideline. I thought we were going to get killed. I went to that game as someone who pulled for each team when they werent playing one another but came away from it with hate in my heart for the north and Bingham for his theatrics.
This 'riot' of which you talked, when did that take place? As for Billy Bingham, encouraging his supporters during the singing of "One Team in Ireland" is hardly a capital offence in any reasonable person's book...
Quoteafter all they did abuse a linesman from the republic about a year or so ago so they arent all that evolved are they?
Did 'they' indeed?
Quote from: SammyG on August 05, 2007, 07:54:49 PM
Quote from: stew on August 05, 2007, 07:49:53 PMI am not trying to drag anybodies name through the gutter, it is my opinion that Bingham let himself down that night and if he missed the fact that the atmosphere was dreadful he was stupid to boot, his behaviour on the touchline agitated the crowd even more, I was there sammy, I saw and felt this for myself and it is my opinion.
You can't have seen it because it never happened. You are a liar, end of story.
Quote from: stew on August 05, 2007, 07:49:53 PM
I know a lot of people who thought Bingham let himself down that night, there are plenty of people who agree with me Samuel so I was not lying samuel, i was offering you my perception, my opinion and that was all, this is a discussion board is it not????
Where any of the people at the match or do they form there opinion based on shite from people like yourself and TF.
Quote from: stew on August 05, 2007, 07:49:53 PM
One last thing samuel, after some of the lies you have told around here you would do well to shut your mouth on that score because you are one of the biggest liars on the board. That again is just my opinion/perception of you samuel.
Brilliant response, you get caught bullshitting so you call me a liar. I don't suppose you can remind us of some of these lies, I'm supposed to have told.
I was not caught bullshitting sammy. And I will remind you of the liar that you are.
A few weeks ago you lied when you denied that marty from owc had posted that anyone who posted on the owc forum would be barred if they commented before the end of the England game when they hammered the six 4-0. You were called out on that and there was also a thread about the glentoran supporters club thread where a young woman was killed and you lied through your teeth on that thread to sammy but there were some of us on here who knew the facts and knew you to be the liar you are.
As for MW. there was no riot, poor wording on my part, Bingham made the atmosphere more dangerous for us Catholics in the crowd with his actions again that is my opinion and that of others. I was with 5 other lads and four of them had the same opinion as I did, the other one is a cousin of mine and a left footer and huge north supporter, he disagreed with us. As for the rest of the people who mentioned Bingham and there were many, I do not know if they were at the game or not, my best guess would be no because they would have nothing to do with owc because of the fact that wp was a very unwelcoming place back in the day.
This poll would have been better titled 'Do you think windsor park is still intimidating for catholics', to which the answer must be no. I won't deny it was years ago, but nowadays, if you find it intimidating, you're having a laugh. :)
Quote from: stew on August 05, 2007, 09:08:10 PMAs for MW. there was no riot, poor wording on my part, Bingham made the atmosphere more dangerous for us Catholics in the crowd with his actions again that is my opinion and that of others. I was with 5 other lads and four of them had the same opinion as I did, the other one is a cousin of mine and a left footer and huge north supporter, he disagreed with us. As for the rest of the people who mentioned Bingham and there were many, I do not know if they were at the game or not, my best guess would be no because they would have nothing to do with owc because of the fact that wp was a very unwelcoming place back in the day.
What exactly did you see Bingham doing? ??? (And from where?)
Quote from: DirtyDozen12 on August 03, 2007, 10:03:46 PM
Quote from: mooncatiii on August 03, 2007, 02:08:18 PM
Quote from: DirtyDozen12 on August 03, 2007, 02:04:07 PM
Bad Poll, bad subject, dunno why you started it. Are you just trying to grab attention by spouting your title in capitals. How many times have you been to Windsor Park? If you have been, how intimidating was it for you moon-whatever??
if u dont like it then f**k away of from th thread! i was havin a debate and to get every elses opinion i started a poll so as i said go and f**k yourself if u dont like it!
I just dont know what your trying to prove here!!!You are asking if windsor park is intimidating for catholics on a GAA chat forum???!!! Not hard to guess what the results of your poll are going to be eh sunshine???? i could have told you the outcome before you ever started this puke thread!! If you where to start this poll on OWC, what do you think the results would be???
U fuckwit
that was the point, do catholics think it is intimidating...if i started it on the OWC how many catholics would have answered?! "u fuckwit" way back to your wheelchair
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 03, 2007, 10:05:37 PM
Quote from: nifan on August 03, 2007, 02:00:31 PM
I talked about the fact that the lisburn road area borders windsor park, you claimed that this was an intimidating area for catholics, i said many catholics lived there etc
that was the argument, have you forgotten it already.
The Lisburn road, particularly around that area, is a hole I'd be afraid to open my mouth in. (It was a few years ago though, has it changed?)
I regularly drive a southern reg car around, park it overnight there, etc
never a problem.
The girlfriend has never had a spot of bother with her drogheda accent either
Quote from: GweylTah on August 03, 2007, 08:55:39 PM
Quote from: nifan on August 03, 2007, 05:47:22 PM
Gwyltah - i havent been to casement, but many of my friends have offered to take me to a game - to say i wouldnt be welcome is simply untrue, there may be some dicks, but nearly every one i know who goes is fine with "prods"
Why not go yourself if and when the opportunity arises? And good luck and be safe if you do, and keep the head down. (It was noticeable that the BBC on their recent programme about Catholic and Protestant attitudes didn't risk taking the Linfield supporters to Casement, but rather to Clones - they were probably aware of their Duty of Care to participants in their programme.)
I would, had i been available on any occasion i have been asked.
Your as bad as those who reckon a catholic would get beaten up at windsor - nobody would be looking for you and i very much doubt at a game in casement anyone would be looking for a protestant to kick the shite out of.
"keep the head down" - thanks for the advice, much needed.
Quote from: mooncatiii on August 06, 2007, 09:09:51 AM
Quote from: DirtyDozen12 on August 03, 2007, 10:03:46 PM
Quote from: mooncatiii on August 03, 2007, 02:08:18 PM
Quote from: DirtyDozen12 on August 03, 2007, 02:04:07 PM
Bad Poll, bad subject, dunno why you started it. Are you just trying to grab attention by spouting your title in capitals. How many times have you been to Windsor Park? If you have been, how intimidating was it for you moon-whatever??
if u dont like it then f**k away of from th thread! i was havin a debate and to get every elses opinion i started a poll so as i said go and f**k yourself if u dont like it!
I just dont know what your trying to prove here!!!You are asking if windsor park is intimidating for catholics on a GAA chat forum???!!! Not hard to guess what the results of your poll are going to be eh sunshine???? i could have told you the outcome before you ever started this puke thread!! If you where to start this poll on OWC, what do you think the results would be???
U fuckwit
that was the point, do catholics think it is intimidating...if i started it on the OWC how many catholics would have answered?! "u fuckwit" way back to your wheelchair
You really must be the biggest w**ker on this board; oh and the thickest. ;)
Quote from: Long time dead on August 06, 2007, 10:17:31 AM
Quote from: mooncatiii on August 06, 2007, 09:09:51 AM
Quote from: DirtyDozen12 on August 03, 2007, 10:03:46 PM
Quote from: mooncatiii on August 03, 2007, 02:08:18 PM
Quote from: DirtyDozen12 on August 03, 2007, 02:04:07 PM
Bad Poll, bad subject, dunno why you started it. Are you just trying to grab attention by spouting your title in capitals. How many times have you been to Windsor Park? If you have been, how intimidating was it for you moon-whatever??
if u dont like it then f**k away of from th thread! i was havin a debate and to get every elses opinion i started a poll so as i said go and f**k yourself if u dont like it!
I just dont know what your trying to prove here!!!You are asking if windsor park is intimidating for catholics on a GAA chat forum???!!! Not hard to guess what the results of your poll are going to be eh sunshine???? i could have told you the outcome before you ever started this puke thread!! If you where to start this poll on OWC, what do you think the results would be???
U fuckwit
that was the point, do catholics think it is intimidating...if i started it on the OWC how many catholics would have answered?! "u fuckwit" way back to your wheelchair
You really must be the biggest w**ker on this board; oh and the thickest. ;)
yea i am!
If I'm honest, I'd have to agree that Windsor Park is an intimidating place for Catholics - but only those who play for Sweden, Spain, England etc. In fact, I'd say some of them were shitting themselves. ;)
As for Irish Catholics, here's the opinion of one who's better qualified to comment than anyone else on this site:
"Sometimes in a break in play at home games we just look around at the whole ground doing the 'bouncy' and it's an absolutely amazing sight!"
Chris Baird
For those who don't know, Chris is a former GAA player from Rasharkin who spurned an approach by the FAI in order to represent NI, which he's done with pride over 20 times now. I know I can speak for the Green and White Army when I say we love him and he loves us. In fact, the only "intimidation" anyone should worry about would be against someone who said a bad word against Super Chrissy Baird...
I still think it's interesting that the BBC sent two Linfield supporters to Clones to see a gaelic game, but didn't seem see fit to get them to go two miles across the town. Maybe the Linfield supporters were (understandably) frightened, given Casement's history, or the BBC just weren't prepared to take the risk. There's several opportunities for you to go to Casement Park over the next couple of months, NIFan, so why not give it a go, and goo luck. Or this week's Feile?
By the way, didn't one of the North's soccer team's regular nationalist critics go to Windsor Park with some of the team's supporterrs a couple of years ago as a guest of the BBC and had to concede there was nothing scary or offensive about it, but he just wasn't that interested? Not sure of the details, it was on Radio Ulster.
QuoteThere's several opportunities for you to go to Casement Park over the next couple of months, NIFan, so why not give it a go, and goo luck. Or this week's Feile?
I will when i get a chance, I would have went before had I not had other arrangements, as is likely in the next while also as i travel with work.
What do you seriously think would happen to me? The chances that anyone would give a shite would minimal - and if there was a head the ball who hated prods enough to start something once he managed to somehow work out what i was I reckon my mates would stand by me.
Honestly, your as bad as fearon with the scaremongering.
Quote from: GweylTah on August 06, 2007, 05:42:45 PM
I still think it's interesting that the BBC sent two Linfield supporters to Clones to see a gaelic game, but didn't seem see fit to get them to go two miles across the town. Maybe the Linfield supporters were (understandably) frightened, given Casement's history, or the BBC just weren't prepared to take the risk. There's several opportunities for you to go to Casement Park over the next couple of months, NIFan, so why not give it a go, and goo luck. Or this week's Feile?
By the way, didn't one of the North's soccer team's regular nationalist critics go to Windsor Park with some of the team's supporterrs a couple of years ago as a guest of the BBC and had to concede there was nothing scary or offensive about it, but he just wasn't that interested? Not sure of the details, it was on Radio Ulster.
There are not too many big games played in Casement, most are played in Clones or Croker and maybe that is why the beeb went to Clones.
Quote from: SammyG on August 03, 2007, 06:45:55 PM
Quote from: stew on August 03, 2007, 06:06:55 PM
I have been in WP a few times and the last time was enough for me and that was the Billy Bingham inciting a riot game against the Republic. I have never experienced a worse atmosphere in my life and vowed never to return.
stew
You're getting as bad as Tony, there's no point repeating lies that have long since been shown to be complete and utter bollix. As you are well aware Billy Bingham never incited anybody, that night or any other time. A quieter, nicer, gentleman (in the old fashioned sense of the word) you could never hope to meet and the fact that fcukwits like yourself try to drag his name through the gutter is sickening.
Quote from: stew on August 03, 2007, 06:06:55 PM
12 or so years on I think that things have improved although that would not be hard but I think I would give it a go if I was home and somebody gave me a free ticket and I had nothing better to do, mind you I wouldnt walk in until the game was underway. ;)
Knob.
believe it or not sammy billy binghams image went down the toilet for a lot of people that night...
Quote from: magickingdom on August 06, 2007, 06:06:35 PM
Quote from: SammyG on August 03, 2007, 06:45:55 PM
Quote from: stew on August 03, 2007, 06:06:55 PM
I have been in WP a few times and the last time was enough for me and that was the Billy Bingham inciting a riot game against the Republic. I have never experienced a worse atmosphere in my life and vowed never to return.
stew
You're getting as bad as Tony, there's no point repeating lies that have long since been shown to be complete and utter bollix. As you are well aware Billy Bingham never incited anybody, that night or any other time. A quieter, nicer, gentleman (in the old fashioned sense of the word) you could never hope to meet and the fact that fcukwits like yourself try to drag his name through the gutter is sickening.
Quote from: stew on August 03, 2007, 06:06:55 PM
12 or so years on I think that things have improved although that would not be hard but I think I would give it a go if I was home and somebody gave me a free ticket and I had nothing better to do, mind you I wouldnt walk in until the game was underway. ;)
Knob.
believe it or not sammy billy binghams image went down the toilet for a lot of people that night...
As stew has refused to tell us what BB is supposed to have done, maybe you can enlighten us?
Sammyg won't believe it, I have proved that this is the case and he won't believe because he wont allow himself to. Bingham went down in many peoples estimation after the game with Ireland based on the way he conducted himself during the game, even allowing for the fact it was his last game in charge and he was jacked up (understandle) he still crossed the line and endangered the lives of Republic fans that were there, that is what I felt at the time and how many people felt after the game.
several people have told sammy how they have felt on this thread alone and he still wont accept it but that is how a fair amount of people felt after the ROI match in wp.
Quote from: SammyG on August 06, 2007, 06:14:55 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on August 06, 2007, 06:06:35 PM
Quote from: SammyG on August 03, 2007, 06:45:55 PM
Quote from: stew on August 03, 2007, 06:06:55 PM
I have been in WP a few times and the last time was enough for me and that was the Billy Bingham inciting a riot game against the Republic. I have never experienced a worse atmosphere in my life and vowed never to return.
stew
You're getting as bad as Tony, there's no point repeating lies that have long since been shown to be complete and utter bollix. As you are well aware Billy Bingham never incited anybody, that night or any other time. A quieter, nicer, gentleman (in the old fashioned sense of the word) you could never hope to meet and the fact that fcukwits like yourself try to drag his name through the gutter is sickening.
Quote from: stew on August 03, 2007, 06:06:55 PM
12 or so years on I think that things have improved although that would not be hard but I think I would give it a go if I was home and somebody gave me a free ticket and I had nothing better to do, mind you I wouldnt walk in until the game was underway. ;)
Knob.
believe it or not sammy billy binghams image went down the toilet for a lot of people that night...
As stew has refused to tell us what BB is supposed to have done, maybe you can enlighten us?
sammyg, you know what he did, we had this discussion on owc before I got banned, I am not going to rehash it again, the man is dead and I am not going to repeat what I wrote on owc.
six people were murdered during the 1994 wc sammy, the north was a shithole of hatred (on both sides), the last thing any responsible manager should be doing is standing on a sideline trying to raise the temperature. the game didnt need that there was enough bile around the place (on both sides) as was shown in the subsequent murders. and before anyone starts saying 'it wasnt that bad' then tell me why the need for the ifas ffa programme? it was that bad...
Sammy sees this from a unionist perspective, i see it from a nationalist perspective so our opinions would differ, that said you would have had to be dead not to pick up on the venom and hate that was in the air that night, Billy Bingham made the situation far far worse by his actions and I was front and center and was apalled by what he did, he made an unimaginably bad atmosphere even worse and again I know a ton of people who were sickened by his actions.
Even given the fact that this was a local derby and his last game in charge he knew that this game was unlike any other he had ever been involved in. Bingham's team had nothing to play for save pride and yet he goaded and jestured at the bigots in the crowd and whipped them into a frenzy that made the atmosphere worse.
I liked him before this happened, I lost all respect for him afterwards and as I said I came to despise for a while the norths team, that has passed but to me Bingham will always be remembered for his inciting the crowd that night against the Republic.
As for FFA and the progress that has been made, I am sure that things have improved but again there was a linesman from the Republic at a game about a year ago and he got dogs abuse, the only thing that has changed is the numbers of haters in the crowd seems to have dwindled and that is a beautiful thing and long may that continue.
Quote from: magickingdom on August 06, 2007, 06:37:44 PM
six people were murdered during the 1994 wc sammy, the north was a shithole of hatred (on both sides),
the last thing any responsible manager should be doing is standing on a sideline trying to raise the temperature. the game didnt need that there was enough bile around the place (on both sides) as was shown in the subsequent murders. and before anyone starts saying 'it wasnt that bad' then tell me why the need for the ifas ffa programme? it was that bad...
[/quote]
When did anybody say it 'wasn't that bad'? There was some horrific chanting at the match (by a minority of the crowd) and I don't know anybody who has ever tried to deny or justify that. The issue here is the nonsensical allegation that Bingham was somehow involved in stoking up that hatred. Bigots like stew and TF have repeated this lie so many times that they actually start to believe it, even though they can't tell us what he's supposed to have done, when he did it or anything else except they said it so it must have happened.
I havent been following this thread but find the results shocking.
Over 76 % find Windsor intimidating for Catholics????
Whats the explanation Sammy given that you more or less "proved" it wasnt?
Have 48 people lied, or are you wrong? ;)
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 07, 2007, 09:20:53 AM
I havent been following this thread but find the results shocking.
Over 76 % find Windsor intimidating for Catholics????
Whats the explanation Sammy given that you more or less "proved" it wasnt?
Have 48 people lied, or are you wrong? ;)
How many of those 48 people have ever been to WP (or even know where it is)? There are Nationalists who attend matches at WP (both internationals and Irish Leagues games), there are Nationalists who live in the streets around WP, there is a Camogie team that uses WP for practice etc etc etc. They obviously don't feel that it's intimidating or that they're in any danger, or else they wouldn't be there.
Ach sure maybe those 48 don't know that Fenians can avoid the hardcore loyalists by sneaking in the back way over the footbridge. ::)
I lived and worked in the area for a summer and used the aforementioned footbridge.
I never had any trouble in the area, but at the same time I never socialised in it. Easy enough to keep the head down and not wear a gaelic jersey.
If I was unlucky enough to be working on a saturday and knew Linfield were playing, I'd avoid it, taking the car or a taxi
Mind you, i'm sure 'themmuns' might feel the same if they worked in an area where Donegal Celtic/Cliftonville were playing.
Quote from: Donagh on August 07, 2007, 09:35:33 AM
Ach sure maybe those 48 don't know that Fenians can avoid the hardcore loyalists by sneaking in the back way over the footbridge. ::)
By 'hardcore loyalists' I presume you mean the Village. Why would anybody go through the Village to get to WP?
Quote from: SammyG on August 07, 2007, 09:26:15 AM
How many of those 48 people have ever been to WP (or even know where it is)? There are Nationalists who attend matches at WP (both internationals and Irish Leagues games), there are Nationalists who live in the streets around WP, there is a Camogie team that uses WP for practice etc etc etc. They obviously don't feel that it's intimidating or that they're in any danger, or else they wouldn't be there.
[/quote]
Ah sure thats just perfect, explain the results of the poll by accusing all the people who voted against your way of thinking of telling lies. ::)
Cue Sammys response of "WTF!?? when did I accuse anyone of telling lies??! ;)
All so very predictable :o
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 07, 2007, 09:55:42 AM
Quote from: SammyG on August 07, 2007, 09:26:15 AM
How many of those 48 people have ever been to WP (or even know where it is)? There are Nationalists who attend matches at WP (both internationals and Irish Leagues games), there are Nationalists who live in the streets around WP, there is a Camogie team that uses WP for practice etc etc etc. They obviously don't feel that it's intimidating or that they're in any danger, or else they wouldn't be there.
Ah sure thats just perfect, explain the results of the poll by accusing all the people who voted against your way of thinking of telling lies. ::)
Cue Sammys response of "WTF!?? when did I accuse anyone of telling lies??! ;)
All so very predictable :o
[/quote]
I can be very predictable, where did I say anybody was telling lies?
Quote from: SammyG on August 07, 2007, 09:50:28 AM
By 'hardcore loyalists' I presume you mean the Village. Why would anybody go through the Village to get to WP?
The loyalists is Olympia Drive, Olympia Parada, Ebor St, Ebor Parade, Runnymere Dr and Donegal Avenue, Tavannagh St, Benburb St and the lower end of Tates Ave - you know, the streets around Windsor you pass through when you're not having to sneak in the back way.
HHN, surely you can see that many people may assume that windsor is intimidating for catholics, from stuff people tell them, without actually having a notion about the place or where it actually is.
And donagh - sneaking in the back door? its the entrance used by a large amount of the crowd, particularly those going to the north stand. I often use it myself and im hardly sneaking in.
Walking down tates (which is majorly students)a to enter at the west stand isnt really scary either, down a major road and across 1 small resedential street amongst a throng of fans (i never see any hardcore loyalists milling around these streets either). I can understad some trepedation for those who have heard horror stories, but i cant see that anyone would really find it intimidating if they went
Quote from: nifan on August 07, 2007, 10:06:40 AM
HHN, surely you can see that many people may assume that windsor is intimidating for catholics, from stuff people tell them, without actually having a notion about the place or where it actually is.
And donagh - sneaking in the back door? its the entrance used by a large amount of the crowd, particularly those going to the north stand. I often use it myself and im hardly sneaking in.
Walking down tates (which is majorly students)a to enter at the west stand isnt really scary either, down a major road and across 1 small resedential street amongst a throng of fans (i never see any hardcore loyalists milling around these streets either). I can understad some trepedation for those who have heard horror stories, but i cant see that anyone would really find it intimidating if they went
Nifan are you denying that these streets are currently bedecked with loyalist flags and murals?
I havent been right down there, save for driving down tates to get to the west link, so im unsure - theres usually a few flags down there, but ive found those streets becoming more elderly/studenty/eastern european in recent years.
Im sure there are some - bedecked im not so sure.
But we are splitting hairs, i guess it comes down to what intimidates yourself, similar to gweltachs fear of casement park - i see it as a sporting ground with a sporting crowd and if there are a few tricolours flying it wont intimidate me.
Quote from: SammyG on August 07, 2007, 08:42:49 AM
When did anybody say it 'wasn't that bad'? There was some horrific chanting at the match (by a minority of the crowd) and I don't know anybody who has ever tried to deny or justify that. The issue here is the nonsensical allegation that Bingham was somehow involved in stoking up that hatred. Bigots like stew and TF have repeated this lie so many times that they actually start to believe it, even though they can't tell us what he's supposed to have done, when he did it or anything else except they said it so it must have happened.
he stood on the sideline facing the crowd and waved his hands encouraging the crowd to roar louder. it wasnt needed and countless people in the republic (and ni) who previously liked the guy thought he let himself down. the last few pages of this thread are the best argument for a shared stadium i have yet seen...
Quote from: magickingdom on August 07, 2007, 10:49:56 AM
he stood on the sideline facing the crowd and waved his hands encouraging the crowd to roar louder.
Oh FFS, he waved at the crowd when we were 1 nil up and the crowd started singing 'One Team in Ireland', this was a direct response to Jack Charlton doing the same thing in Dublin. How in the name of all that's holy is singing OTII sectarian or bigotted?
Quote from: magickingdom on August 07, 2007, 10:49:56 AM
it wasnt needed and countless people in the republic (and ni) who previously liked the guy thought he let himself down.
Whwre these same people outraged by Charlton or by all the other football managers who do the same thing every week?
Quote from: magickingdom on August 07, 2007, 10:49:56 AM
the last few pages of this thread are the best argument for a shared stadium i have yet seen...
I fully support a shared stadium and always have done but I'm not sure what it has to do with this thread.
Nifan, at the end of the day if a Fenian was caught in one of these areas there's a fair chance he would be given a kicking and I'd say there'd be damn all any of the sporting crowd you talk about would do about it – not unlike the young man in the Shankill at the weekend who was given a beating after being knocked down because he couldn't sing the Sash. The days of expecting someone to sneak in the back doors are gone.
I take your point about Casement but there are a few crucial differences:
1. big GAA games are normally held on Sunday afternoons as opposed to Sat or mid week evenings
2. GAA games would have a much higher proportion of families in attendance.
3. No segregation at GAA games. This combined with 1 & 2 above provides for a less 'hostile' atmosphere.
4. Anyone acting out of line is more likely to be reigned in by others in the crowd. I'm not saying this doesn't happen at NI games but from reading OWC, there is a very distinct reluctance to do this.
5. Less drink consumed at GAA games, possibly due to point 1. I know we've have a problem in Clones (not Casement) but this is confined to young teenagers and not on a par with the amount of drink consumed in and around WP on match days (I used to live near it as well).
donagh, using term like fenian serves what point?
how would anyone know in these areas what you where - and who is going to catch them - do you think everyone in these areas is like that?
Entering the stadium through one of the major arterial routes is hardly sneaking through the back door, and as ive said i would think it unnecessary. My mate (a catholic) and i usually enter via tates as we are going to the kop, hes never had so much as a bad look, and why would he. The members of our supporters club and those who know his identity on owc are all aware of his religion.
My point re casement is that although in ana area im unfamiliar with id be happy to go knowing that in a sporting crowd id doubt that people would be looking for a prod to kick - same as NI games. Id be happy enough to give it ago.
Quote from: nifan on August 07, 2007, 11:19:51 AM
donagh, using term like fenian serves what point?
What word would you prefer?
Quote from: nifan on August 07, 2007, 11:19:51 AM
how would anyone know in these areas what you where - and who is going to catch them - do you think everyone in these areas is like that?
Belfast is a small place and most of us work with people from the other side. I don't think everyone in loyalist areas are out to snare a Fenian/rebel/Catholic/nationalist/republican but there are a fair few who like to go hunting with the drinks in.
Quote from: nifan on August 07, 2007, 11:19:51 AM
Entering the stadium through one of the major arterial routes is hardly sneaking through the back door, and as ive said i would think it unnecessary. My mate (a catholic) and i usually enter via tates as we are going to the kop, hes never had so much as a bad look, and why would he. The members of our supporters club and those who know his identity on owc are all aware of his religion.
I wouldn't call a footbridge over the railway as an major arterial route and likewise I don't know any Fenian/rebel/Catholic/nationalist/republican who would walk over the bridge on Tates.
Quote from: nifan on August 07, 2007, 11:19:51 AM
My point re casement is that although in ana area im unfamiliar with id be happy to go knowing that in a sporting crowd id doubt that people would be looking for a prod to kick - same as NI games. Id be happy enough to give it ago.
Soccer and GAA games will always be chalk and cheese. From what I can see there's a lot of tribalism in supporting soccer – throw our local difficulties into that atmosphere, a pitch in a predominantly loyalist area and you get an intimidating evening for someone not part of the tribe.
QuoteWhat word would you prefer?
If you are talking about catholics use that term, if you are drawing a distinction between "sorts" of catholic be more explicit, and perhaps use a less emotive term. Do you talk about fenians in every day life?
QuoteBelfast is a small place and most of us work with people from the other side. I don’t think everyone in loyalist areas are out to snare a Fenian/rebel/Catholic/nationalist/republican but there are a fair few who like to go hunting with the drinks in.
Ive never seen people hunting around a NI game for catholics.
QuoteI wouldn’t call a footbridge over the railway as an major arterial route and likewise I don’t know any Fenian/rebel/Catholic/nationalist/republican who would walk over the bridge on Tates.
The northstand is the largest stand, and the footbridge is the main way into it, most other people going to the northstand go down tates and down that tiny staircase off of it. Thousands use the footbridge for god sake.
Quote from: nifan on August 07, 2007, 11:43:46 AM
If you are talking about catholics use that term, if you are drawing a distinction between "sorts" of catholic be more explicit, and perhaps use a less emotive term. Do you talk about fenians in every day life?
I do yeah. I use the word 'fenian' to denote those non-unionists who are despised by loyalists in the six counties. Like myself they may not be Catholics, thougha lot of them may be. Undoubtedly there are some good Catholics – probably the unionist or NI supporting ones.
Quote
Ive never seen people hunting around a NI game for catholics.
Maybe not but I'm sure there's a few people in and around that loyalist area which contains WP have engaged in such sport on many occassions.
QuoteThe northstand is the largest stand, and the footbridge is the main way into it, most other people going to the northstand go down tates and down that tiny staircase off of it. Thousands use the footbridge for god sake.
Well that's alright then. The next time I apply for a ticket to an NI game, shall I say "Oh btw, I'm a Fenian, can I have a North Stand ticket, le do thoil."?
Quote from: SammyG on August 07, 2007, 10:54:33 AM
Quote from: magickingdom on August 07, 2007, 10:49:56 AM
he stood on the sideline facing the crowd and waved his hands encouraging the crowd to roar louder.
Oh FFS, he waved at the crowd when we were 1 nil up and the crowd started singing 'One Team in Ireland', this was a direct response to Jack Charlton doing the same thing in Dublin. How in the name of all that's holy is singing OTII sectarian or bigotted?
never said singing otii is sectarian or bigotted. and the game in belfast was different to the game in dublin because of the way the results had panned out. if the situtation was reversed and the game was in dublin and ni needed the result and charlton did as you said then i would have thought he would have let himself down as well...
Quote from: magickingdom on August 07, 2007, 12:15:43 PM
Quote from: SammyG on August 07, 2007, 10:54:33 AM
Quote from: magickingdom on August 07, 2007, 10:49:56 AM
he stood on the sideline facing the crowd and waved his hands encouraging the crowd to roar louder.
Oh FFS, he waved at the crowd when we were 1 nil up and the crowd started singing 'One Team in Ireland', this was a direct response to Jack Charlton doing the same thing in Dublin. How in the name of all that's holy is singing OTII sectarian or bigotted?
never said singing otii is sectarian or bigotted. and the game in belfast was different to the game in dublin because of the way the results had panned out. if the situtation was reversed and the game was in dublin and ni needed the result and charlton did as you said then i would have thought he would have let himself down as well...
Why? How on earth is a manager urging the supporters to get behind the team, 'letting himself down', surely it's part of his job?
It all ended well anyway. Thousands of bigots left the stadium glum faced, Bingham just avoided getting a dig in the gob (which the little bastard thoroughly deserved) from big Jack (and Nicholl, another cnut, might have got one as well from Maurice Setters) and we got the result we needed to book the flights to USA 1994 ;D
Sammy I am no bigot I just have a low tolerance for two dimensional do gooders like yourself who lie to make valid invalid points. You have all the time in the world for the widows of the RUC officers that were killed and most of the victims of the troubles from 69 on but you have blind spots sammy and you have lied about a murder to deflect blame from an IFA club and some of your comments on GAA members have bordered on dangerous and could get people killed.
One last time on the Bingham thing. In my opinion Billy Bingham, based on his actions the night the north played the south in the WC qualifier made a bad situation worse for the catholics in the crowd. I am not trying to make any sort of controversal statement here that I my opinion on what happened and I was there. The atmosphere was disgusting and he knew it and chose to act in a way that inflamed the thousands of hate filled scumbags in the crowd. End of.
Quote from: stew on August 07, 2007, 04:20:07 PM
Sammy I am no bigot I just have a low tolerance for two dimensional do gooders like yourself who lie to make valid invalid points. You have all the time in the world for the widows of the RUC officers that were killed and most of the victims of the troubles from 69 on but you have blind spots sammy and you have lied about a murder to deflect blame from an IFA club
Complete bollix, you accused the IFA of involvement in the girls murder and I pointed out the club involved was nothing to do with the IFA.
Quote from: stew on August 07, 2007, 04:20:07 PM
and some of your comments on GAA members have bordered on dangerous and could get people killed.
What comments?
Quote from: stew on August 07, 2007, 04:20:07 PM
One last time on the Bingham thing. In my opinion Billy Bingham, based on his actions the night the north played the south in the WC qualifier made a bad situation worse for the catholics in the crowd. I am not trying to make any sort of controversal statement here that I my opinion on what happened and I was there. The atmosphere was disgusting and he knew it and chose to act in a way that inflamed the thousands of hate filled scumbags in the crowd. End of.
You are a liar, end of.
If I thought that Billy Bingham was the sort of dangerous, sectarian bigot as some on this Board have alleged, I'd have no time for him.
But Bingy was, and is, one of my heroes and I make no apology whatever for saying that.
This is because years of experience, and his record - as opposed to scurrilous lies and distortions - prove that the wee man hasn't a sectarian bone in his body.
From he first played for NI, he always paid the most fulsome praise to his first international manager, Peter Doherty, a Catholic (AFAIK). And as a player, he was an integral part of one of NI's most successful sides ever (World Cup quarter-finalists in 1958), a team which was entirely mixed, both players and management.
When he took over managing the NI side, he was outstandingly successful, not least for instilling a "club" spirit in the team, whereby their teamwork and camaraderie etc allowed them consistently to "punch above their weight". Had there been a sectarian undercurrent in such mixed teams, he could never have produced the results he did.
Further, the three players arguably most associated with his successes were all Catholic - Pat Jennings, Martin O'Neill and Gerry Armstrong. Of these three, Jennings extended his international career for NI long after his club career was effectively over, in order to play for NI in the Mexico World Cup at the age of 40. Indeed, BB picked him for the great majority of his 119 caps.
Martin O'Neill, a player never short of an opinion on anything(!) was made Captain by BB, in a period when there were many other outstanding candidates who (presumably) were Prods.
And Gerry Armstrong went from being a journeyman club footballer to achieve fame all over the world on the international scene with NI under the teaching and encouragement of BB.
Moreover, although I know little of BB's personal life, I do know that Gerry Armstrong was honoured to be Best Man at Billy's second marriage.
So unless anyone thinks that these RC's (and countless others) were either indifferent to BB's alleged "bigotry" ???, or somehow didn't notice :o, then it beggars belief for Bingham to have concealed bigoted views over a forty year period in football, only for it to emerge on the evening of his last game before retirement. ::)
Speaking of which, I was actually at that game, in the Stand which holds the team dugouts (not that far away from BB, actually). And whilst there was a very hostile and intimidating attitude whipped up by a sectarian section of the crowd, it was by no means the majority, nor did the sectarian chanting etc last the entire 90 mins. Consequently, the behaviour by BB which has been alleged to be inciteful was a period in the second half, when NI were ahead and attacking, the crowd was getting behind the team with various football chants (rather than political), and BB stood up out of his dugout to encourage his team and the support on. If I'm entirely honest, I don't recall exactly all the chants, but "One Team in Ireland" as mentioned was one.
Maybe some GAA fans don't fully appreciate the different behaviour of soccer crowds from their GAA counterparts, but what BB did was no more significant than what e.g. Jack Charlton did on countless occasions when managing the ROI - or has everyone forgotten the touchline confrontations, with bulging neck veins etc, displayed by Big Jack e.g at the World Cup Finals?
Indeed, in the context of this particular game, the notoriously hot-headed Charlton's behaviour before the game was arguably more inflammatory, in what was already a tense situation. For one thing, he tried everything he knew to persuade FIFA to switch the game outside NI, thereby depriving us of home advantage. Then he tried (equally unsuccessfully) to flout the Rule which demands that all teams arrive in the home country at least 24 hours before kick-off. And, of course, he famously allowed rebel songs to be played on the ROI team bus on the way to games. I can say with certainty that BB never permitted any political music in the environment of any team he ever managed.
So whatever else anyone thinks about NI football and the behaviour of its participants, if anyone else repeats even a hint of these undoubtedly libellous allegations against Bingham, I shall make it my business to see that he is made aware of what some people on this Board have alleged. And if I had to guess the wee man's reaction, I would say the Moderators better have deep pockets and good lawyers...
In his playing career, Bingham was a small elusive right winger who provided fine deliveries from the flank. Among his dribbling skills, he would 'pretend' to stumble whilst in control of the ball, a trick which would often throw his opponents off balance.[citation needed]
Bingham joined Sunderland in 1950 for £8,000 making 227 appearances and scoring 47 goals before his departure[citation needed] in 1958 for Luton Town where he played in the 1959 FA Cup final. At the start of the 1960-61 season after Luton's relegation, he joined Everton for a fee of £15,000.[citation needed] During his time at Everton, he made 98 appearances and scored 26 goals.[citation needed] Bingham left Everton after being in the 1963 Championship winning team and joined Port Vale. He retired from playing after breaking his leg in 1964.
He was a Northern Ireland international and played for his country in the World Cup finals 1958. He was awarded 56 full caps.
Management career
Southport (1966-1967)
Linfield
Northern Ireland (1967-1971)
Plymouth Argyle (1968-1970)
Greece (1971-1973)
Everton (1973-1977)
Mansfield Town (1978-1980)
Northern Ireland (1980-1994)
Bingham took over as manager in May 1973 at Everton and finished seventh in his first season. He brought in players such as Martin Dobson and Bob Latchford. Everton seemed likely to win the title again in 1975, but only won once in the last five games finishing fourth. In 1975-76 Everton finished eleventh but a run of eight league games without a win resulted in Bingham being sacked in January 1977.
Bingham managed Northern Ireland in two spells. He led them to the World Cup finals 1982 and World Cup finals 1986.
Bingham caused controversy by allegedly conducting the crowd in renditions of Loyalist songs 'Billy Boys' and 'The Sash' when the Republic of Ireland travelled to Windsor Park for a World Cup qualifier in 1993.[citation needed] Bingham claimed at the time that his only intention was to get the crowd behind the team, not to provoke sectarian hatred.[citation needed] The Republic's manager Jack Charlton refused to shake hands with Bingham after the match.[citation needed]
So now it's me and few more bigots on here against the wee man. Sammy has been held up again for the liar that he is. I just brought up his name ond poof there was the info above just winking at me.
EG you and the rest of owc are cut from the same cloth, the minute something is said about one of your boys you play the libel card. Grow up ffs, it is a discussion board nd Ihave an opinion, obviously so do plenty of other people. I stand behind every word that i said on Bingham but no doubt you will have the moderator scrambling to shut this thread down.
So it started of as just me 'slandering' bingham, then a couple of others joined in and now the manager of Ireland was pissed as well, your arrogance knows no bounds, it must be nice sitting with 16,000 of your closest hate filled compadres whilst a couple of hundred people are wondering if they are going to make it out alive.
stew
Quoting wikipedia and even including the citation required bits (that show it's untrue/uncorroborated) is a bit stupid even for you. You are a liar, why not just admit it.
Quote from: stew on August 07, 2007, 04:37:02 PMBingham caused controversy by allegedly conducting the crowd in renditions of Loyalist songs 'Billy Boys' and 'The Sash' when the Republic of Ireland travelled to Windsor Park for a World Cup qualifier in 1993.[citation needed] Bingham claimed at the time that his only intention was to get the crowd behind the team, not to provoke sectarian hatred.[citation needed] The Republic's manager Jack Charlton refused to shake hands with Bingham after the match.[citation needed]
So now it's me and few more bigots on here against the wee man.
Aye, it's been quite a few liars and myth-makers down the years.
Wikipedia by any chance? ::)
Quote from: stew on August 07, 2007, 04:37:02 PMSo it started of as just me 'slandering' bingham, then a couple of others joined in and now the manager of Ireland was pissed as well,
Charlton has said in his autobiography that he refused to shake hands with Bingham because he had been misinformed by someone on his bench that Bingham had made a rude gesture towards him during the match. Charlton instead charmingly said "up yours". Charlton actually went to Bingham's post-match press conference to
apologise to him once he found out he'd got the wrong end of the stick.
Even the mythmakers over the years haven't claimed Charlton refused to shake hands with Bingham because he enouraged the crowd, so well done on adding an original element. You see how these myths develop?
Quote
your arrogance knows no bounds, it must be nice sitting with 16,000 of your closest hate filled compadres
So now
all NI fans (and apparently 1000s of others...) were "hate-filled"? Did that include a 12 year old me? My father? My brother?
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 07, 2007, 04:25:51 PM
So whatever else anyone thinks about NI football and the behaviour of its participants, if anyone else repeats even a hint of these undoubtedly libellous allegations against Bingham, I shall make it my business to see that he is made aware of what some people on this Board have alleged. And if I had to guess the wee man's reaction, I would say the Moderators better have deep pockets and good lawyers...
will you fcuk off.. replies in less then 3000 words please
Quote from: stew on August 07, 2007, 04:37:02 PM
In his playing career, Bingham was a small elusive right winger who provided fine deliveries from the flank. Among his dribbling skills, he would 'pretend' to stumble whilst in control of the ball, a trick which would often throw his opponents off balance.[citation needed]
Bingham joined Sunderland in 1950 for £8,000 making 227 appearances and scoring 47 goals before his departure[citation needed] in 1958 for Luton Town where he played in the 1959 FA Cup final. At the start of the 1960-61 season after Luton's relegation, he joined Everton for a fee of £15,000.[citation needed] During his time at Everton, he made 98 appearances and scored 26 goals.[citation needed] Bingham left Everton after being in the 1963 Championship winning team and joined Port Vale. He retired from playing after breaking his leg in 1964.
He was a Northern Ireland international and played for his country in the World Cup finals 1958. He was awarded 56 full caps.
Management career
Southport (1966-1967)
Linfield
Northern Ireland (1967-1971)
Plymouth Argyle (1968-1970)
Greece (1971-1973)
Everton (1973-1977)
Mansfield Town (1978-1980)
Northern Ireland (1980-1994)
Bingham took over as manager in May 1973 at Everton and finished seventh in his first season. He brought in players such as Martin Dobson and Bob Latchford. Everton seemed likely to win the title again in 1975, but only won once in the last five games finishing fourth. In 1975-76 Everton finished eleventh but a run of eight league games without a win resulted in Bingham being sacked in January 1977.
Bingham managed Northern Ireland in two spells. He led them to the World Cup finals 1982 and World Cup finals 1986.
Bingham caused controversy by allegedly conducting the crowd in renditions of Loyalist songs 'Billy Boys' and 'The Sash' when the Republic of Ireland travelled to Windsor Park for a World Cup qualifier in 1993.[citation needed] Bingham claimed at the time that his only intention was to get the crowd behind the team, not to provoke sectarian hatred.[citation needed] The Republic's manager Jack Charlton refused to shake hands with Bingham after the match.[citation needed]
So now it's me and few more bigots on here against the wee man. Sammy has been held up again for the liar that he is. I just brought up his name ond poof there was the info above just winking at me.
EG you and the rest of owc are cut from the same cloth, the minute something is said about one of your boys you play the libel card. Grow up ffs, it is a discussion board nd Ihave an opinion, obviously so do plenty of other people. I stand behind every word that i said on Bingham but no doubt you will have the moderator scrambling to shut this thread down.
So it started of as just me 'slandering' bingham, then a couple of others joined in and now the manager of Ireland was pissed as well, your arrogance knows no bounds, it must be nice sitting with 16,000 of your closest hate filled compadres whilst a couple of hundred people are wondering if they are going to make it out alive.
You really are making a p***k of yourself if you have to make do with a Wikipedia entry, by some unknown scrote, with its "Citation Needed" and "Allegedly".
Why don't you answer the body of my post, which is that Bingham's entire record was based on engendering a united team spirit amongst players from all backgrounds, something which would be impossible were he the bigot you allege?
Why don't you explain why the likes of Jennings, O'Neill and Armstrong were so obviously inspired by someone you portray as a bigot?
Why would O'Neill accept the captaincy, or Armstrong agree to be his Best Man?
These are facts, as opposed to the myths repeated in your Wikipedia excerpt. But you ignore these inconvenient truths, such is your determination to bolster your prejudices, even at the expense of libelling a patently accomplished and distinguished man.
As for my need to "grow up", this may well be a Discussion Board, but no Discussion Board I've ever seen allows libel - whether "opinion" or not.
Or, to put it another way, how would you react if I were to post that e.g. the manager of your GAA team was a child molester, with no proof to back it up? You'd be outraged and I'd be banned, yet you defend your "right" to contend that Bingham is a bigot, even in the face of clear evidence to the contrary.
Talking of which, MW has neatly exposed the lie about the Charlton handshake that never took place, and I can add another one i.e. your "16,000... hate-filled compadres" etc. For security reasons, the capacity was limited that night to 10,500... ::)
Still, why let the truth get in the way of a good old bigoted rant, eh?
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 07, 2007, 05:08:13 PM
Still, why let the truth get in the way of a good old bigoted rant, eh?
That should be your new motto EG. :D
Evil Genius you write some emotional crap sometimes.
Billy did not deny encouraging the crowd whilst the Billy Boys was being sung.
Reports/lies have him doing so.
BUT It's total nonsense to claim Billy had any agenda other than support for his team.
In the heat of the game, Bingham hears noise not words. He probably had not got a clue what was being sung.
QuoteAnd, of course, he (Charlton) famously allowed rebel songs to be played on the ROI team bus on the way to games. I can say with certainty that BB never permitted any political music in the environment of any team he ever managed
The Ireland team have since time immemorial played rebel songs on the bus going to the grounds. I hope they did not make any exception when travelling to WP
"Sean South of Garryowen" was Charlton's favourite. Other rebel songs to blast out over the bus PA are The boys of the old brigade, Foggy Dew, 4 green fields.
Although Charlton was a proud Englishman he had absolutly no difficulty embracing Irish rebel songs.
The Irish team have no problem playing rebel songs. In fact we use to wonder way back in Eoin Hands days if they kept all their energy for the post match sing song which included yes more feckin rebel songs.
QuoteJack Charlton did on countless occasions when managing the ROI
You mean once, in the famous WORLD CUP FINALS touchline flare up against that "dickhead" who allowed a player to come off but made Aldridge a sub wait 6 or 7 minutes.
Quote"Notorious hothead"
Jack Charlton might have a thin skin, but notorious hothead doesn't describe that type of character.
Quote from: Main Street on August 07, 2007, 05:50:18 PM
Evil Genius you write some emotional crap sometimes.
Billy did not deny encouraging the crowd whilst the Billy Boys was being sung.
Reports/lies have him doing so.
Correct, maybe you could have a wee word with stew or TF or 5times who all 'saw' BB encouraging the Billy Boys
Quote from: Main Street on August 07, 2007, 05:50:18 PM
BUT It's total nonsense to claim Billy had any agenda other than support for his team.
In the heat of the game, Bingham hears noise not words. He probably had not got a clue what was being sung.
Untrue he made a point of waving when One Team in Ireland was being sung, in direct response to Charlton's antics in Dublin.
Quote from: Main Street on August 07, 2007, 05:50:18 PM
QuoteAnd, of course, he (Charlton) famously allowed rebel songs to be played on the ROI team bus on the way to games. I can say with certainty that BB never permitted any political music in the environment of any team he ever managed
The Ireland team have since time immemorial played rebel songs on the bus going to the grounds. I hope they did not make any exception when travelling to WP
"Sean South of Garryowen" was Charlton's favourite. Other rebel songs to blast out over the bus PA are The boys of the old brigade, Foggy Dew, 4 green fields.
Although Charlton was a proud Englishman he had absolutly no difficulty embracing Irish rebel songs.
The Irish team have no problem playing rebel songs. In fact we use to wonder way back in Eoin Hands days if they kept all their energy for the post match sing song which included yes more feckin rebel songs.
Aye sure sectarianism is just a bit of crack as long as it's the right type of sectarianism, obviously. I can't believe that anybody would try and defend this.
Quote from: Main Street on August 07, 2007, 05:50:18 PM
Billy did not deny encouraging the crowd whilst the Billy Boys was being sung.
Reports/lies have him doing so.
BUT It's total nonsense to claim Billy had any agenda other than support for his team.
In the heat of the game, Bingham hears noise not words. He probably had not got a clue what was being sung.
When was Bingham charged with encouraging the crowd as you say, such that he refused to deny it?
Which reports/lies have him doing so?
How come Bingham cannot hear the words being sung, yet his detractors appear "word perfect" - even those who weren't actually there! Either it was clear what was being sung (and therefore intimidating) or it wasn't.
And if he genuinely didn't know what was being sung whilst he egged on the crowd, why is he being castigated for it now? (Especially when I recall no such behaviour to a background of sectarian singing).
Quote from: Main Street on August 07, 2007, 05:50:18 PM
The Ireland team have since time immemorial played rebel songs on the bus going to the grounds. I hope they did not make any exception when travelling to WP
"Sean South of Garryowen" was Charlton's favourite. Other rebel songs to blast out over the bus PA are The boys of the old brigade, Foggy Dew, 4 green fields.
Although Charlton was a proud Englishman he had absolutly no difficulty embracing Irish rebel songs.
The Irish team have no problem playing rebel songs. In fact we use to wonder way back in Eoin Hands days if they kept all their energy for the post match sing song which included yes more feckin rebel songs.
I personally have no great opinion on what music the ROI team enjoys on the team bus (although I would hardly consider it sensitive, or sensible, on the way to so tense a match as that at WP, but no matter). However, my point was that if BB had ever permitted the singing of Loyalist music within a mile of his team, he'd have been absolutely slaughtered for it. And as is so often the case, it's the double standards which grind, even more than the actuality.
Consequently, when one fan sings e.g. the Sash, it's an outrage, whereas when another fan sings e.g. about a lice-ridden would-be murderer who wasn't even from f**king Garryowen, "sure it's only a bit of craic" :o
Quote from: Main Street on August 07, 2007, 05:50:18 PM
QuoteJack Charlton did on countless occasions when managing the ROI
You mean once, in the famous WORLD CUP FINALS touchline flare up against that "dickhead" who allowed a player to come off but made Aldridge a sub wait 6 or 7 minutes.
OK, I'll accept that it wasn't "countless", but as a manager for both club and country, Charlton was known for getting involved in touchline confrontations in an era when it was much less common than nowadays. The Bingham handshake and Aldridge examples were two of the more high-profile occasions, but by no means atypical.
Quote from: Main Street on August 07, 2007, 05:50:18 PM
Quote"Notorious hothead"
Jack Charlton might have a thin skin, but notorious hothead doesn't describe that type of character.
Perhaps your memories of Charlton don't go back as far as mine, but right back to the days when he played for the notoriously violent and confrontational Leeds United team of Don Revie, in a gang that included the likes of Bremner, Giles, Hunter etc, Charlton was invariably to the fore on the frequent occasions when fights broke out. See the famous 1970 Cup Final Replay v Chelsea, if you don't believe me! Or there was the furore he caused when he spoke about the "Little Black Book" he kept with the names of opponents who had crossed him, for future retribution.
But because it was good, old "Give it a Lash" Jack, he got away with behaviour that would not have been tolerated in other managers, including Bingham.
Quote from: SammyG on August 07, 2007, 06:18:25 PM
Aye sure sectarianism is just a bit of crack as long as it's the right type of sectarianism, obviously. I can't believe that anybody would try and defend this.
Go away to fck with your sectarian shite.
Let me read one day what Sammy approves to be considered acceptable to be a part of Ulster Culture or Irish culture.
So Tommy Makem's 4 green fields. straight onto the sectarian list.
Please give an exact precise reason why you consider it sectarian ?
likewise the Foggy Dew.
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 07, 2007, 06:32:34 PM
Perhaps your memories of Charlton don't go back as far as mine, but right back to the days when he played for the notoriously violent and confrontational Leeds United team of Don Revie, in a gang that included the likes of Bremner, Giles, Hunter etc, Charlton was invariably to the fore on the frequent occasions when fights broke out. See the famous 1970 Cup Final Replay v Chelsea, if you don't believe me! Or there was the furore he caused when he spoke about the "Little Black Book" he kept with the names of opponents who had crossed him, for future retribution.
.
No, I don't judge a manager by how he played the game decades earlier.
I thought only Fearon had a problem with time zones.
So Charlton the manager is a notorious hothead because of the reputation of his club team mates and your memory of him as a player. I seriously doubt that Alf Ramsay would have placed such trust in a notorious hothead.
And he is a notorious hothead because he kept a black book?
That suggests to me to be a player who holds a grudge and calculated for later retribution, not a notorious hothead.
Quote from: Main Street on August 07, 2007, 07:07:27 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 07, 2007, 06:32:34 PM
Perhaps your memories of Charlton don't go back as far as mine, but right back to the days when he played for the notoriously violent and confrontational Leeds United team of Don Revie, in a gang that included the likes of Bremner, Giles, Hunter etc, Charlton was invariably to the fore on the frequent occasions when fights broke out. See the famous 1970 Cup Final Replay v Chelsea, if you don't believe me! Or there was the furore he caused when he spoke about the "Little Black Book" he kept with the names of opponents who had crossed him, for future retribution.
.
No, I don't judge a manager by how he played the game decades earlier.
I thought only Fearon had a problem with time zones.
So Charlton the manager is a notorious hothead because of the reputation of his club team mates and your memory of him as a player. I seriously doubt that Alf Ramsay would have placed such trust in a notorious hothead.
And he is a notorious hothead because he kept a black book?
That suggests to me to be a player who holds a grudge and calculated for later retribution, not a notorious hothead.
Believe it or not, I have no gripe with Jack Charlton generally - in fact, I always preferred him to his sanctimonious younger brother! But he was a hothead as a player and a hothead as a manager*. It's no big deal as far as I'm concerned, except that in the context of the notorious NI v ROI match in 1993, his behaviour was more inflammatory than anything Bingham did, yet Bingham gets all the blame - even for things which he (Bingham) simply did not do.
Anyway, one of the reasons I like Charlton is that he also has a sense of humour and essential fairness, evident when he cools down. A perfect example of this was his subsequent behaviour after the "handshake" incident, as recalled by MW.
* - Ask any Middlesbrough fan about Jack Charlton's time in charge at Ayresome - especially when dealing with a young Graeme Sounness!
Quote from: stew on August 07, 2007, 07:18:59 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 07, 2007, 06:32:34 PM
Quote from: Main Street on August 07, 2007, 05:50:18 PM
Billy did not deny encouraging the crowd whilst the Billy Boys was being sung.
Reports/lies have him doing so.
BUT It's total nonsense to claim Billy had any agenda other than support for his team.
In the heat of the game, Bingham hears noise not words. He probably had not got a clue what was being sung.
Probably had not got a clue what was being sung lolololol. Dead On.
When was Bingham charged with encouraging the crowd as you say, such that he refused to deny it?
Who the feck said anything about charging anybody? the game was played at wp, the filth would have been slaughtered that night if they had tried to arrest wee billy at that game, he was the crowds main man on the night.
If you are looking for justice in the six you were and are delusional.
Which reports/lies have him doing so?
How come Bingham cannot hear the words being sung, yet his detractors appear "word perfect" - even those who weren't actually there! Either it was clear what was being sung (and therefore intimidating) or it wasn't.
And if he genuinely didn't know what was being sung whilst he egged on the crowd, why is he being castigated for it now? (Especially when I recall no such behaviour to a background of sectarian singing).
Er, I have held my opinions since I saw the wee man inciting the crowd ( in my opinion) and said so years ago on owc and got barred for my opinions. OWC is a one trick pony of a site. Orior got barred for naming the new stadium 'The Orange Bowl' ffs.
As for Charlton, he is an Englishman and knew little about the political situation in the north and he did not cover himself in glory in the run up to the match either and is as big a ballix as wee billy.
Thankfully things have improved and the wp crowd now save their ire for Irish linesmen.
All very witty, Stew, but also total bullshit. Why don't you reply to my earlier question, when I asked how someone you allege to be so obviously and knowingly bigoted as Bingham could also have been so inspirational to strong-willed and intelligent characters as Jennings, O'Neill and Armstrong?
Why would Bingham subsequently ask a Falls Road Catholic (Armstrong) to be Best Man at his wedding, if he was such a bigot? And why would Armstrong accept?
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 07, 2007, 07:57:53 PM
Quote from: stew on August 07, 2007, 07:18:59 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 07, 2007, 06:32:34 PM
Quote from: Main Street on August 07, 2007, 05:50:18 PM
Billy did not deny encouraging the crowd whilst the Billy Boys was being sung.
Reports/lies have him doing so.
BUT It's total nonsense to claim Billy had any agenda other than support for his team.
In the heat of the game, Bingham hears noise not words. He probably had not got a clue what was being sung.
Probably had not got a clue what was being sung lolololol. Dead On.
When was Bingham charged with encouraging the crowd as you say, such that he refused to deny it?
Who the feck said anything about charging anybody? the game was played at wp, the filth would have been slaughtered that night if they had tried to arrest wee billy at that game, he was the crowds main man on the night.
If you are looking for justice in the six you were and are delusional.
Which reports/lies have him doing so?
How come Bingham cannot hear the words being sung, yet his detractors appear "word perfect" - even those who weren't actually there! Either it was clear what was being sung (and therefore intimidating) or it wasn't.
And if he genuinely didn't know what was being sung whilst he egged on the crowd, why is he being castigated for it now? (Especially when I recall no such behaviour to a background of sectarian singing).
Er, I have held my opinions since I saw the wee man inciting the crowd ( in my opinion) and said so years ago on owc and got barred for my opinions. OWC is a one trick pony of a site. Orior got barred for naming the new stadium 'The Orange Bowl' ffs.
As for Charlton, he is an Englishman and knew little about the political situation in the north and he did not cover himself in glory in the run up to the match either and is as big a ballix as wee billy.
Thankfully things have improved and the wp crowd now save their ire for Irish linesmen.
All very witty, Stew, but also total bullshit. Why don't you reply to my earlier question, when I asked how someone you allege to be so obviously and knowingly bigoted as Bingham could also have been so inspirational to strong-willed and intelligent characters as Jennings, O'Neill and Armstrong?
Why would Bingham subsequently ask a Falls Road Catholic (Armstrong) to be Best Man at his wedding, if he was such a bigot? And why would Armstrong accept?
What is bullshit? did an Irishman doing the line aat wp recently not get dogs abuse from the now all knowing all enlightened norn iron support? is tht bullshit, did that not happen?
I never said that I knew Bingham to be a bigot, I said that I admired and liked him before he acted the maggot and upped the ante of hate against Ireland. As for Jennings and co, they are entitled to their opinion and so am I. I have loads of Protestant friends and two of them were part of my wedding party when I got married and they don't consider me a bigot so what the feck is your point??? it is opinion EG. That is all it is.
Quote from: Main Street on August 07, 2007, 05:50:18 PM
The Ireland team have since time immemorial played rebel songs on the bus going to the grounds. I hope they did not make any exception when travelling to WP
"Sean South of Garryowen" was Charlton's favourite. Other rebel songs to blast out over the bus PA are The boys of the old brigade, Foggy Dew, 4 green fields.
Although Charlton was a proud Englishman he had absolutly no difficulty embracing Irish rebel songs.
The Irish team have no problem playing rebel songs. In fact we use to wonder way back in Eoin Hands days if they kept all their energy for the post match sing song which included yes more feckin rebel songs.
Playing a song dedicated to an IRA terrorist who came from the Republic of Ireland to Northern Ireland to attempt to murder Northern Irish policemen doesn't strike you a being anything of a problem?
Stew,
My original question was:
"How [come] someone you allege to be so obviously and knowingly bigoted as Bingham could also have been so inspirational to strong-willed and intelligent characters as Jennings, O'Neill and Armstrong?
Why would Bingham subsequently ask a Falls Road Catholic (Armstrong) to be Best Man at his wedding, if he was such a bigot? And why would Armstrong accept?"
Your reply was:
"What is bullshit? did an Irishman doing the line aat wp recently not get dogs abuse from the now all knowing all enlightened norn iron support? is tht bullshit, did that not happen?
I never said that I knew Bingham to be a bigot, I said that I admired and liked him before he acted the maggot and upped the ante of hate against Ireland. As for Jennings and co, they are entitled to their opinion and so am I. I have loads of Protestant friends and two of them were part of my wedding party when I got married and they don't consider me a bigot so what the feck is your point??? it is opinion EG. That is all it is"
The only reason for someone like Bingham "upping the ante of hate against Ireland" would be if he, too, "hated Ireland", which would be a bigoted stance to hold.
Which if true, makes it astonishing that characters like Jennings, O'Neill and Armstrong so obviously respect the man.
Of course, you are entitled to your opinion, but do you really think it stands comparison with those of respected players like them, with their decades of first-hand experience of the man himself?
To quote the lead character in "Mrs. Doubtfire":
"Opinions are like arseholes. Everyone has them, but not too many bear close scrutiny..." :o
P.S. Your medal for having two Protestant friends at your wedding is in the post. You can wear it alongside your "Some of my Best Friends are Black Award"...
Quote from: MW on August 08, 2007, 10:41:04 AM
Playing a song dedicated to an IRA terrorist who came from the Republic of Ireland to Northern Ireland to attempt to murder Northern Irish policemen doesn't strike you a being anything of a problem?
Not a problem for me. 1956
That campaign happenned before I was born. Farcical and doomed campaign.
What particular part of Sean South is sectarian? or the other song the "Patriot Game"
Next we will be hearing that Bob Dylan is sectarian.
Quote from: Main Street on August 08, 2007, 01:24:05 PM
Not a problem for me. 1956
That campaign happenned before I was born. Farcical and doomed campaign.
What particular part of Sean South is sectarian?
Sectarian, no. Glorifying terrorism, yes.
Isnt it amazing how its always "Terrorism" when the underdog strikes back but it's never "Terrorism" when Governments,Armies armed to the teeth,Sectarian Armed Police or the lovely "B" Specials attack/shoot/terrorise people.
I'm sure the people who were murdered in their beds in West Belfast by RUC/B Specials in 1969 or the thousands whose homes were blown to bits by US Bombs in Baghdad were very terrorised.
Quote from: Rossfan on August 08, 2007, 02:31:27 PM
Isnt it amazing how its always "Terrorism" when the underdog strikes back
Republican paramilitaries were responsible for nearly 2000 deaths during the Troubles, i.e. about 56% of total deaths. the security forces were responsible for around 330 deaths, i.e. about 12%. That an awful lot of "striking back" from those "underdogs"...almost like they were actually aggressors rather than "striking back" ::)
QuoteI'm sure the people who were murdered in their beds in West Belfast by RUC/B Specials in 1969 or the thousands whose homes were blown to bits by US Bombs in Baghdad were very terrorised.
And of course lots of teams in international football play songs in support of this, don't they.
The Sean South song dates from the 1950s .
While you can quote statistics to prove the "hitting back" was overdone it doesnt alter the fact that Catholics/Nationalists were treated disgracefully in the 6 North Eastern Counties with the full backing and participation by the Authorities from 1922 to .....1972/1985/1994/1998 ( take your pick). But of course Unionists are still in denial about this and prefer to run with the theory that everything was wonderful till those awful "terrorists" started upsetting the applecart in their Nirvana.
As for Sean South he was trying to achieve what would be the preferred option of the majority of the population of County Fermanagh - to belong to a free independant Irish Republic.
The last time I looked most Western Governments support the Yanks' (or are afraid to stand up to them) disgraceful murdering campaign in Iraq. I havent heard any of these Countries International Soccer teams objecting to this.
Quote from: Rossfan on August 08, 2007, 05:18:13 PM
The Sean South song dates from the 1950s .
While you can quote statistics to prove the "hitting back" was overdone it doesnt alter the fact that Catholics/Nationalists were treated disgracefully in the 6 North Eastern Counties with the full backing and participation by the Authorities from 1922 to .....1972/1985/1994/1998 ( take your pick). But of course Unionists are still in denial about this and prefer to run with the theory that everything was wonderful till those awful "terrorists" started upsetting the applecart in their Nirvana.
As for Sean South he was trying to achieve what would be the preferred option of the majority of the population of County Fermanagh - to belong to a free independant Irish Republic.
The last time I looked most Western Governments support the Yanks' (or are afraid to stand up to them) disgraceful murdering campaign in Iraq. I havent heard any of these Countries International Soccer teams objecting to this.
I'm not getting into a debate on the Troubles on this thread too. And your last sentence is completely, bizarrely, irrelevant.
The point is, the RoI team merrily listened to a song celebrating the attempted murderer of Northern Irish police officers. Strange how this is never mentioned in the usual whining gripes about 'that night' from the usual suspects.
Quote from: MW on August 08, 2007, 05:25:49 PM
The point is, the RoI team merrily listened to a song celebrating the attempted murderer of Northern Irish police officers. Strange how this is never mentioned in the usual whining gripes about 'that night' from the usual suspects.
Merrily singing.
Before bravely going into the WP cesspit, players ignoring the abuse from the crowd, kept the focus, came from behind and got away with the prized result. It's not all bad on the memory front.
Singing republican songs doesn't make you a die hard republican even though that seems like a bit of a contradiction. The songs are just filled with emotion. Did I read somewhere that after Munster won the Heineken Cup they all sang Sean South in the changing rooms?
Quote from: MW on August 08, 2007, 05:25:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 08, 2007, 05:18:13 PM
The Sean South song dates from the 1950s .
While you can quote statistics to prove the "hitting back" was overdone it doesnt alter the fact that Catholics/Nationalists were treated disgracefully in the 6 North Eastern Counties with the full backing and participation by the Authorities from 1922 to .....1972/1985/1994/1998 ( take your pick). But of course Unionists are still in denial about this and prefer to run with the theory that everything was wonderful till those awful "terrorists" started upsetting the applecart in their Nirvana.
As for Sean South he was trying to achieve what would be the preferred option of the majority of the population of County Fermanagh - to belong to a free independant Irish Republic.
The last time I looked most Western Governments support the Yanks' (or are afraid to stand up to them) disgraceful murdering campaign in Iraq. I havent heard any of these Countries International Soccer teams objecting to this.
I'm not getting into a debate on the Troubles on this thread too. And your last sentence is completely, bizarrely, irrelevant.
The point is, the RoI team merrily listened to a song celebrating the attempted murderer of Northern Irish police officers. Strange how this is never mentioned in the usual whining gripes about 'that night' from the usual suspects.
To be honest there is a bit of a difference in singing a few rebel songs in the privacy of a bus and what went on in public at the ground.
Many do not even get that the
"The Patriot Game" resonates lyrically to "With God on our Side",
as in anti ultra national.
I went in 96 to watch big gorgeous Iain Dowie score two headers to beat Albania 2-0. I was only a 2nd year and me and my mate got free tickets from soccer team.
We were in lower north stand and i'll never forget sitting amoungst men drapped in union jacks sitting around us. When the anthem started this fat, tattoed, gold-jewellery, chain smoking, ni flag drapped "fan" turned round to us and shouted "get up to f**k for the anthem."
We loved sport but couldnt enjoy this--spent the whole match pretending to be amused when drunk men singing sectarian songs turned round smiling and clapping their hands as if to say "join in."
Felt sick crossing that bridge on way out, was certain we were gonna be attacked as we had no flags or NI gear on--lookin back its a miricle we wernt because when you are 13 or 14 it is a cert you are gonna be set upon by 15/16/17/18 year old thugs from the village, sandy row or off the lisburn road.
As for the Lisburn Road being safe--it has got very affluent in parts in the last few years but is still bedecked in loyalist flags. If your a schoolkid and lookin to get a hiding, hang around Cranmore Park or somewhere near at the weekend and a local (bleached blond haired) from the village etc wont be long in giving you a few slaps(as long as he has plenty of mates with him).
As for WP--ive never went near it since, although i hear its got better
Quote from: Gold on August 09, 2007, 11:56:06 AM
I went in 96 to watch big gorgeous Iain Dowie score two headers to beat Albania 2-0. I was only a 2nd year and me and my mate got free tickets from soccer team.
We were in lower north stand and i'll never forget sitting amoungst men drapped in union jacks sitting around us. When the anthem started this fat, tattoed, gold-jewellery, chain smoking, ni flag drapped "fan" turned round to us and shouted "get up to f**k for the anthem."
We loved sport but couldnt enjoy this--spent the whole match pretending to be amused when drunk men singing sectarian songs turned round smiling and clapping their hands as if to say "join in."
Felt sick crossing that bridge on way out, was certain we were gonna be attacked as we had no flags or NI gear on--lookin back its a miricle we wernt because when you are 13 or 14 it is a cert you are gonna be set upon by 15/16/17/18 year old thugs from the village, sandy row or off the lisburn road.
As for the Lisburn Road being safe--it has got very affluent in parts in the last few years but is still bedecked in loyalist flags. If your a schoolkid and lookin to get a hiding, hang around Cranmore Park or somewhere near at the weekend and a local (bleached blond haired) from the village etc wont be long in giving you a few slaps(as long as he has plenty of mates with him).
As for WP--ive never went near it since, although i hear its got better
In 1996, could you have foreseen Ian Paisley sitting down as First Minister at Stormont alongside Martin McGuinness as his Deputy, in a power-sharing Government?
Windsor Park has changed immeasurably since your (deplorable) experience 11 years ago. If you can get your hands on a ticket, trust me, you can attend these days without experiencing anything remotely like that.
As for GSTQ, it is customary to stand, but so what? If I were at a GAA game, or function in in West Belfast, or the Republic etc where the Soldiers Song was played, I'd stand, too! (As I do when the SS is played for rugby internationals at Lansdowne, come to think of it.
But if you really can't face that prospect, why not adopt my alternative tactic, which is to use that time for a visit to the loo? The queues have usually gone down by then, and it keeps the wait until half-time down to the minimum!
;)
P.S. Don't forget to wear green on your next visit, if you really want to fit in!
SO 78.1% find Windsor park intimidating for Catholics despite page after page of arguments that its not.
I suppose that settles it so, unless 78.1% are telling lies?? :-\
78.1 think windsor park would be intimidating.
I have no idea how many of these have the first clue about windsor, the area and games other than the repeated claims of the likes of tony, and stories such as those told by Aerlik or tabloid journalism.
Im not claiming everything is perfect in the world of NI sports, but surely you agree that some knowledge should be a prerequisite for such a claim.
100% of catholics believe in god, doesnt mean its backed up with facts.
Quote from: nifan on August 09, 2007, 12:59:26 PM
78.1 think windsor park would be intimidating.
I have no idea how many of these have the first clue about windsor, the area and games other than the repeated claims of the likes of tony, and stories such as those told by Aerlik or tabloid journalism.
Im not claiming everything is perfect in the world of NI sports, but surely you agree that some knowledge should be a prerequisite for such a claim.
100% of catholics believe in god, doesnt mean its backed up with facts.
Sorry Nifan but theres a glaring difference in what you said and whats true, the thread says "do u think windsor park IS intimidating for Catholics"
not "would be" suggesting they havent been.
By voting it IS intimidating I would presume this is from experience.
I think, from what I have heard, that it "would be" intimidating, but didnt vote that it "is" as I havent been.
Are you honestly dismissing these peoples votes by suggesting they all lied in the poll?
im not saying they "lied" im saying that i think people voted without a full knowledge of the facts.
Do you honestly believe all those who voted know the full facts?
reading throught the threads here it is quite evident that many dont know as much windsor as they may think.
Quoteor maybe even that 78.1% of us support the Republic.
Thats irrelevant to the discussion here - it isnt a question of who you support
Quote from: nifan on August 09, 2007, 01:23:46 PM
im not saying they "lied" im saying that i think people voted without a full knowledge of the facts.
Do you honestly believe all those who voted know the full facts?
reading throught the threads here it is quite evident that many dont know as much windsor as they may think.
57 people voted Nifan, and they either lied or are ill informed ::)
Jesus christ Nifan, is it not more so that its a result you didnt want to hear?
5times called it
End of discussion
Only took 9 or 10 pages ::)
hhn,
I havent said people lied - it is a question of opinion
My opinion however is that there is every chance that a number of the prople who voted are ill informed - whats the problem here, i have argued over the points i feel people are ill informed on at length here.
As for the result i wanted to hear - it is the result i expected, it doesnt shock me.
Some of the guys i have taken to windsor had similar fears before attending, others didnt have a bother
Quote from: nifan on August 09, 2007, 01:38:25 PM
My opinion however is that there is every chance that a number of the prople who voted are ill informed - whats the problem here, i have argued over the points i feel people are ill informed on at length here.
A number of them are ill informed or havent been to Windsor so, what proportion of the 57 would you say fall in here?
And would you concede the possibility that many of these people have been and this is why they voted this way?
I have no idea what proportion have been - do you? Are you confident that all those who voted are in posession of the facts.
People voted on their perception of what windsor is like, ie they think it would be intimidating.
Considering the posts of mooncatii as someone who didnt really know the lie of the land at all, yet undoubtably voted that it was intimidating as an example.
Many may have been, but when attendence of windsor has been mentioned in the past there is a derth of people who say they have been.
Something tells me that perhaps these Polls don't always accurately reflect what the general population thinks. Neither do they say much for the level of information and judgement of those who vote in them, either:
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=2758.0
;)
Quote from: nifan on August 09, 2007, 02:20:54 PM
People voted on their perception of what windsor is like, ie they think it would be intimidating.
Again, thats bullshit, it wasnt "do you think it would be intimidating" it was "is it intimidating" so how do you know that the people used preconceptions as opposed to actual experience???
And if you are going to doubt every single person that votes, then how do you know the 16 that said it wasnt intimidating have been there, have seen behaviour thats intimidating to Catholics, yet for their own sinister reasons voted no anyway?
A bullshit argument if ever there was one, stop crying about it.
EG, quite right, I'm sure this poll doesnt accurately reflect what the general population thinks.
We all know that its just among the members of gaaboard, so why even make that point?? :-\ :-\
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 09, 2007, 03:21:30 PM
Again, thats bullshit, it wasnt "do you think it would be intimidating" it was "is it intimidating" so how do you know that the people used preconceptions as opposed to actual experience???
And if you are going to doubt every single person that votes, then how do you know the 16 that said it wasnt intimidating have been there, have seen behaviour thats intimidating to Catholics, yet for their own sinister reasons voted no anyway?
A bullshit argument if ever there was one, stop crying about it.
Im not crying, im making a point as im entitled to.
I feel that it is likely that a portion of those who voted havent any real knowledge of the place.
" it wasnt "do you think it would be intimidating" it was "is it intimidating""
it is actually "DO U THINK WINDSOR PARK IS INTIMIDATING FOR CATHOLICS? " - think, as in not know. it doesnt in any way specify that you actually have to have been. it is asking what you think.
It is perfectly plausible that people voted without having been there, and mooncattii is an example of one who did.
Nifan, the desperation is really reeking from that last post, for f**k sake, accept the result and move on ;)
I dont see the desperation, i made a point and youve continually questioned me on it.
The fact is we have a difference of opinion.
you believe that all those who voted on the thread have been to the place we are talking about
I believe that a portion may have voted on what they believe based on information the have heard from various sources.
You seem to want to make a big deal out of it
I accept the results for what the are - about 78% of those who voted THINK windsor is an intimidating place for catholics. doesnt mean they are correct
I have never been to wndsor park, the reason is because I think it is intimidating... :o
Quote from: nifan on August 09, 2007, 03:36:05 PM
I dont see the desperation, i made a point and youve continually questioned me on it.
The fact is we have a difference of opinion.
you believe that all those who voted on the thread have been to the place we are talking about
I believe that a portion may have voted on what they believe based on information the have heard from various sources.
You seem to want to make a big deal out of it
I accept the results for what the are - about 78% of those who voted THINK windsor is an intimidating place for catholics. doesnt mean they are correct
I never once said I believed all those who voted had been to Windsor so dont misquote me.
You also misquoted the title question for f**k sake to make an point that doesnt exist!!
Anyway, theres no point in argueing, the results of the poll tell the story.
then why argue with me when i made the point that all those who voted maybe didnt know the full facts.
::) ::)
Tell you what Nifan, I made very valid points, I pointed out where you misquoted for your own argument, I am not going to waste time discussing it further.
Now feel free to have the last word on this ::)
Quote78.1 think windsor park would be intimidating.
I have no idea how many of these have the first clue about windsor, the area and games other than the repeated claims of the likes of tony, and stories such as those told by Aerlik or tabloid journalism.
Im not claiming everything is perfect in the world of NI sports, but surely you agree that some knowledge should be a prerequisite for such a claim.
look at my post that started this again
you didnt point out a misquote, it wasnt a quote the first place, it was an interpretation of the meaning of the results.
I felt and still do, that not all the votes came from people with a full knowledge, and therefore the only thing that can be assured is that people think, not know, that windsor is intimidating to catholics, in a recent post you yorself said you never claimed that all people had first hand knowledge of windsor, though you did at one point say i was calling those i accused of that liars.
Quote
Are you honestly dismissing these peoples votes by suggesting they all lied in the poll?
if you dont want to discuss it any further fair enough, but leave the multiple rolling eyes out of it, ive been discussing my points with you and not getting petty so i dont see the problem
Nifan, what sort of roundabout logic are you employing here? accept the results of the poll and move on.
ive explained my point of view several times here stew - what is roundabout?
my only point is that in some cases people here have voted on what they believe to be the case based on sources other than their own experience.
some peoples understanding of the area around windsor has been proven to be incorrect
I accept the results of the poll for what they are, i just dont see it as "case proven, windsor park is definately an intimidating place"
Im not crying, im making a point as im entitled to.
I feel that it is likely that a portion of those who voted havent any real knowledge of the place.
" it wasnt "do you think it would be intimidating" it was "is it intimidating""
it is actually "DO U THINK WINDSOR PARK IS INTIMIDATING FOR CATHOLICS? " - think, as in not know. it doesnt in any way specify that you actually have to have been. it is asking what you think.
It is perfectly plausible that people voted without having been there, and mooncattii is an example of one who did.
[/quote]
Roundabouts, semantics etc................
That said if somebody has never been to WP how can they say it is without ever having been there? They probably should not have voted.
Haven't voted, but the simple answer to the question is yes, and I have been so spare the bullshit.
Would like a situation where I would feel free to go at any opportunity but despite the improvement in the situation it is still intimidating
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on August 08, 2007, 09:33:20 PM
Quote from: MW on August 08, 2007, 05:25:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 08, 2007, 05:18:13 PM
The Sean South song dates from the 1950s .
While you can quote statistics to prove the "hitting back" was overdone it doesnt alter the fact that Catholics/Nationalists were treated disgracefully in the 6 North Eastern Counties with the full backing and participation by the Authorities from 1922 to .....1972/1985/1994/1998 ( take your pick). But of course Unionists are still in denial about this and prefer to run with the theory that everything was wonderful till those awful "terrorists" started upsetting the applecart in their Nirvana.
As for Sean South he was trying to achieve what would be the preferred option of the majority of the population of County Fermanagh - to belong to a free independant Irish Republic.
The last time I looked most Western Governments support the Yanks' (or are afraid to stand up to them) disgraceful murdering campaign in Iraq. I havent heard any of these Countries International Soccer teams objecting to this.
I'm not getting into a debate on the Troubles on this thread too. And your last sentence is completely, bizarrely, irrelevant.
The point is, the RoI team merrily listened to a song celebrating the attempted murderer of Northern Irish police officers. Strange how this is never mentioned in the usual whining gripes about 'that night' from the usual suspects.
Indeed. And one way to look at it is that perhaps it's more serious that the RoI team and coaching staff, played and sang along with a song glorifying a terrorist thug for his actions in trying to murder Northern Irish policemen, and a signnificant minority of the NI supporters singing sectarian songs, some of which glorified terrorists.
To be honest there is a bit of a difference in singing a few rebel songs in the privacy of a bus and what went on in public at the ground.
Quote from: inisceithleann on August 08, 2007, 07:22:17 PM
Singing republican songs doesn't make you a die hard republican even though that seems like a bit of a contradiction. The songs are just filled with emotion. Did I read somewhere that after Munster won the Heineken Cup they all sang Sean South in the changing rooms?
There's seems to a a fundamental double standard at play here which I've seen before.
Imagine if the Northern Ireland football team or the Ulster rugby team prepared for games or celebrated victories by singing even pretty innocuously worded 'traditional' songs like 'The Sash' or 'Derry's Walls', never mind a song glorifying a UVF terrorist from, say, 1966. There'd be an outcry. FFS even if a miniscule number of supporters sang the same thing there'd be a shitstorm about it.
Quote from: MW on August 10, 2007, 10:42:27 AM
Quote from: inisceithleann on August 08, 2007, 07:22:17 PM
Singing republican songs doesn't make you a die hard republican even though that seems like a bit of a contradiction. The songs are just filled with emotion. Did I read somewhere that after Munster won the Heineken Cup they all sang Sean South in the changing rooms?
There's seems to a a fundamental double standard at play here which I've seen before.
Imagine if the Northern Ireland football team or the Ulster rugby team prepared for games or celebrated victories by singing even pretty innocuously worded 'traditional' songs like 'The Sash' or 'Derry's Walls' (never mind a song glorifying a UVF terrorist from, say, 1966). There'd be an outcry. FFS even if a miniscule number of supporters sang the same thing there'd be a shitstorm about it.
MW
You forgot the fundamental 'sure it's just a bit o crack' rule which must be applied when discussing Republican terrorists.
Quote from: stew on August 05, 2007, 07:39:10 PM
after all they did abuse a linesman fromrepublic the about a year or so ago so they arent all that evolved are they?
Where the fu*k did you manage to come up with that sh*t!!??!
Republic of France? Peoples Republic of China?
I'm sorry. I have been to many football matches, Windsor Park and beyond, and I can assure you not once have I cared where the blind b*****d came from!!
Quote from: Chrisowc on August 10, 2007, 11:01:37 PM
Quote from: stew on August 05, 2007, 07:39:10 PM
after all they did abuse a linesman fromrepublic the about a year or so ago so they arent all that evolved are they?
Where the fu*k did you manage to come up with that sh*t!!??!
Republic of France? Peoples Republic of China?
I'm sorry. I have been to many football matches, Windsor Park and beyond, and I can assure you not once have I cared where the blind b*****d came from!!
Chris, I meant to say he was from the republic.
He got dogs abuse, it was talked about on this site and the owc crew admitted he took a bit of stick but sure it was all a bit o craic har de har har!
Actually some condemned it but stated that it was just a few drunken louts with a 20p ............................never mind.
Quote from: stew on August 11, 2007, 03:55:34 PM
Quote from: Chrisowc on August 10, 2007, 11:01:37 PM
Quote from: stew on August 05, 2007, 07:39:10 PM
after all they did abuse a linesman fromrepublic the about a year or so ago so they arent all that evolved are they?
Where the fu*k did you manage to come up with that sh*t!!??!
Republic of France? Peoples Republic of China?
I'm sorry. I have been to many football matches, Windsor Park and beyond, and I can assure you not once have I cared where the blind b*****d came from!!
Chris, I meant to say he was from the republic.
He got dogs abuse, it was talked about on this site and the owc crew admitted he took a bit of stick but sure it was all a bit o craic har de har har!
Actually some condemned it but stated that it was just a few drunken louts with a 20p ............................never mind.
What are you on about?
I have to admit its a surprise seeing a load of Unionists with no interest in GAA posting in a GAA forum. Anyone who thinks Windsor Park isn't intimidated for nationalists or catholics is absolutely deluded the naked sectarianism may no longer so open but you don't have to look far to find their bigotry remains and as for all this talk of WP being inclusive try putting that into action by bringing an Irish flag or the real Ulster flag into the stadium I'm sure the locals would be happy about that. ::)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3ZgfdQeBjs
Quote from: Friend Of Our Fathers on September 15, 2013, 07:00:32 PM
I have to admit its a surprise seeing a load of Unionists with no interest in GAA posting in a GAA forum. Anyone who thinks Windsor Park isn't intimidated for nationalists or catholics is absolutely deluded the naked sectarianism may no longer so open but you don't have to look far to find their bigotry remains and as for all this talk of WP being inclusive try putting that into action by bringing an Irish flag or the real Ulster flag into the stadium I'm sure the locals would be happy about that. ::)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3ZgfdQeBjs
Of course that was not in W.P.
I'm a Unionist.
So you assume i have to have no interest in GAA?
Would this count as sectarianism on your part, or maybe some other nism?
Its certainly a narrow and dated perspective IMO.
Why the fcuk has a 6 year old thread resurrected to state the f**king obvious?
Quote from: Friend Of Our Fathers on September 15, 2013, 07:00:32 PM
I have to admit its a surprise seeing a load of Unionists with no interest in GAA posting in a GAA forum. Anyone who thinks Windsor Park isn't intimidated for nationalists or catholics is absolutely deluded the naked sectarianism may no longer so open but you don't have to look far to find their bigotry remains and as for all this talk of WP being inclusive try putting that into action by bringing an Irish flag or the real Ulster flag into the stadium I'm sure the locals would be happy about that. ::)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3ZgfdQeBjs
Did any of them take a piss in that video or did they stop on the road past Whitehall chapel on the road home to relieve themselves ?.
who cares
wouldnt darken its doors to watch a 6 county teamnor would i go to the aviva to watch the 26 county team
credit to rugby at least it makes great strides to be all inclusive
Rugby is also competitive whereas the two soccer teams are pure shite.
Only three weeks ago the Cliftonville goal keeper and centre forward had to be given a police escort from Windsor Park, after being threatened when they took their seats to watch Linfield V Glentoran, though in fairness it seemed to be only one guy who was causing the hassle.
But whether it's one or thousands, it hardly matters, and the answer is yes, the place is intimidating for any identifiable catholics who go there alone or as part of a smallish group,particularly at a Linfield game, maybe not so much for international football, but not to the throngs of Cliftonville supporters who relish their trips there.
Quote from: thebigfella on September 16, 2013, 09:05:33 AM
Why the fcuk has a 6 year old thread resurrected to state the f**king obvious?
My thoughts exactly...
well actually trevor ringland who is quite forward thinking for a unionist was on fat Nolan this morning discussing norn iron soccer. trevs a nice guy and he reckons if the soccer crowd had a nice song to sing before the games they'd do better and catholics might wander in upon hearing the lovely sound. jim wells dup nigh nigh nigh.. was on hand with a stopwatch to make sure his side of the argument got equal billing. jim thinks trev is a bollocks.. anyway I'm puzzelled as to why trev hasn't joined basil mccreas new party theres not a hair's breath between them.
just wondering what song or what type of song would attract you to northern Ireland soccer.
maybe something by gary lightbody or van the man phil coulter?
me? i'm going for "john condon" the mary Dillon version is class. john was 14 year old catholic boy from Waterford who ended up dead in battle in northern france during the first world war. john seems to have been adopted by loyalists for some reason. never the less the song is very beautiful and slow so even dummies like the soccer crowd could sing it
I'm not saying I gonna head to Windsor park but its a great song
Quote from: lawnseed on September 16, 2013, 10:41:32 PM
well actually trevor ringland who is quite forward thinking for a unionist was on fat Nolan this morning discussing norn iron soccer. trevs a nice guy and he reckons if the soccer crowd had a nice song to sing before the games they'd do better and catholics might wander in upon hearing the lovely sound. jim wells dup nigh nigh nigh.. was on hand with a stopwatch to make sure his side of the argument got equal billing. jim thinks trev is a bollocks.. anyway I'm puzzelled as to why trev hasn't joined basil mccreas new party theres not a hair's breath between them.
just wondering what song or what type of song would attract you to northern Ireland soccer.
maybe something by gary lightbody or van the man phil coulter?
me? i'm going for "john condon" the mary Dillon version is class. john was 14 year old catholic boy from Waterford who ended up dead in battle in northern france during the first world war. john seems to have been adopted by loyalists for some reason. never the less the song is very beautiful and slow so even dummies like the soccer crowd could sing it
I'm not saying I gonna head to Windsor park but its a great song
It should be Danny Boy at Windsor Park in my opinion. Originates in NI / North of Ireland and is quite an emotive song.
Quote from: michaelg on September 16, 2013, 10:57:31 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 16, 2013, 10:41:32 PM
well actually trevor ringland who is quite forward thinking for a unionist was on fat Nolan this morning discussing norn iron soccer. trevs a nice guy and he reckons if the soccer crowd had a nice song to sing before the games they'd do better and catholics might wander in upon hearing the lovely sound. jim wells dup nigh nigh nigh.. was on hand with a stopwatch to make sure his side of the argument got equal billing. jim thinks trev is a bollocks.. anyway I'm puzzelled as to why trev hasn't joined basil mccreas new party theres not a hair's breath between them.
just wondering what song or what type of song would attract you to northern Ireland soccer.
maybe something by gary lightbody or van the man phil coulter?
me? i'm going for "john condon" the mary Dillon version is class. john was 14 year old catholic boy from Waterford who ended up dead in battle in northern france during the first world war. john seems to have been adopted by loyalists for some reason. never the less the song is very beautiful and slow so even dummies like the soccer crowd could sing it
I'm not saying I gonna head to Windsor park but its a great song
It should be Danny Boy at Windsor Park in my opinion. Originates in NI / North of Ireland and is quite an emotive song.
the johnny cash version is great
Quote from: lawnseed on September 16, 2013, 11:00:20 PM
Quote from: michaelg on September 16, 2013, 10:57:31 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 16, 2013, 10:41:32 PM
well actually trevor ringland who is quite forward thinking for a unionist was on fat Nolan this morning discussing norn iron soccer. trevs a nice guy and he reckons if the soccer crowd had a nice song to sing before the games they'd do better and catholics might wander in upon hearing the lovely sound. jim wells dup nigh nigh nigh.. was on hand with a stopwatch to make sure his side of the argument got equal billing. jim thinks trev is a bollocks.. anyway I'm puzzelled as to why trev hasn't joined basil mccreas new party theres not a hair's breath between them.
just wondering what song or what type of song would attract you to northern Ireland soccer.
maybe something by gary lightbody or van the man phil coulter?
me? i'm going for "john condon" the mary Dillon version is class. john was 14 year old catholic boy from Waterford who ended up dead in battle in northern france during the first world war. john seems to have been adopted by loyalists for some reason. never the less the song is very beautiful and slow so even dummies like the soccer crowd could sing it
I'm not saying I gonna head to Windsor park but its a great song
It should be Danny Boy at Windsor Park in my opinion. Originates in NI / North of Ireland and is quite an emotive song.
the johnny cash version is great
The definitive version from my own relatives: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCbuRA_D3KU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCbuRA_D3KU)
Quote from: michaelg on September 16, 2013, 10:57:31 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 16, 2013, 10:41:32 PM
well actually trevor ringland who is quite forward thinking for a unionist was on fat Nolan this morning discussing norn iron soccer. trevs a nice guy and he reckons if the soccer crowd had a nice song to sing before the games they'd do better and catholics might wander in upon hearing the lovely sound. jim wells dup nigh nigh nigh.. was on hand with a stopwatch to make sure his side of the argument got equal billing. jim thinks trev is a bollocks.. anyway I'm puzzelled as to why trev hasn't joined basil mccreas new party theres not a hair's breath between them.
just wondering what song or what type of song would attract you to northern Ireland soccer.
maybe something by gary lightbody or van the man phil coulter?
me? i'm going for "john condon" the mary Dillon version is class. john was 14 year old catholic boy from Waterford who ended up dead in battle in northern france during the first world war. john seems to have been adopted by loyalists for some reason. never the less the song is very beautiful and slow so even dummies like the soccer crowd could sing it
I'm not saying I gonna head to Windsor park but its a great song
It should be Danny Boy at Windsor Park in my opinion. Originates in NI / North of Ireland and is quite an emotive song.
It might work if the English redraw the border so that the OWC comprises parts of south Antrim and north Down. Otherwise I'd say that Amhrán na bhFiann is best.
Quote from: Orior on September 16, 2013, 11:09:10 PM
Quote from: michaelg on September 16, 2013, 10:57:31 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 16, 2013, 10:41:32 PM
well actually Trevor ringland who is quite forward thinking for a unionist was on fat Nolan this morning discussing norn iron soccer. Trev's a nice guy and he reckons if the soccer crowd had a nice song to sing before the games they'd do better and catholics might wander in upon hearing the lovely sound. Jim wells dup nigh nigh nigh.. was on hand with a stopwatch to make sure his side of the argument got equal billing. Jim thinks Trev is a bollocks.. anyway I'm puzzled as to why Trev hasn't joined basil mccreas new party theres not a hair's breath between them.
just wondering what song or what type of song would attract you to northern Ireland soccer.
maybe something by Gary lightbody or van the man Phil coulter?
me? I'm going for "john condon" the Mary Dillon version is class. john was 14 year old catholic boy from Waterford who ended up dead in battle in northern France during the first world war. john seems to have been adopted by loyalists for some reason. never the less the song is very beautiful and slow so even dummies like the soccer crowd could sing it
I'm not saying I gonna head to Windsor park but its a great song
It should be Danny Boy at Windsor Park in my opinion. Originates in NI / North of Ireland and is quite an emotive song.
It might work if the English redraw the border so that the OWC comprises parts of south Antrim and north Down. Otherwise I'd say that Amhrán na bhFiann is best.
yeah I was waiting for that one ::) we're dealing with a certain kind of clientele. stoops, and loyalists, and elite catholics who are unionists with a small 'u'. its a song for them we want not one for us, but at the same time one we don't find offensive and could join in were we listening.. if you see where I'm at.. failing to get a song that evokes emotion and pride there always the silly option like something from lady ga ga or status quo
Quote from: lawnseed on September 17, 2013, 07:13:02 AM
yeah I was waiting for that one ::) we're dealing with a certain kind of clientele. stoops, and loyalists, and elite catholics who are unionists with a small 'u'. its a song for them we want not one for us, but at the same time one we don't find offensive and could join in were we listening.. if you see where I'm at.. failing to get a song that evokes emotion and pride there always the silly option like something from lady ga ga or status quo
My humblest apologies. If I had know you were waiting then I would have posted it earlier.
Quote from: Orior on September 17, 2013, 10:53:48 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 17, 2013, 07:13:02 AM
yeah I was waiting for that one ::) we're dealing with a certain kind of clientele. stoops, and loyalists, and elite catholics who are unionists with a small 'u'. its a song for them we want not one for us, but at the same time one we don't find offensive and could join in were we listening.. if you see where I'm at.. failing to get a song that evokes emotion and pride there always the silly option like something from lady ga ga or status quo
My humblest apologies. If I had know you were waiting then I would have posted it earlier.
;)
perhaps you could suggest another tune or even write on yourself
Says it all really doesn't it about how far things have changed here.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-37605083 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-37605083)
Invite either all of them or none of them. Muppets.
Can't imagine Mary Peters would have got the same mileage out of her gold if it had been for Ireland.
This Board is far more intimidating for Catholics than Windsor Park😠
Quote from: haranguerer on October 10, 2016, 10:34:32 AM
Can't imagine Mary Peters would have got the same mileage out of her gold if it had been for Ireland.
And she isn't even from the North. English born I believe.
Quote from: snoopdog on October 10, 2016, 01:00:07 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on October 10, 2016, 10:34:32 AM
Can't imagine Mary Peters would have got the same mileage out of her gold if it had been for Ireland.
And she isn't even from the North. English born I believe.
She has fairly milked it
Quote from: AQMP on October 10, 2016, 04:49:58 PM
Quote from: Minder on October 10, 2016, 03:49:39 PM
Quote from: snoopdog on October 10, 2016, 01:00:07 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on October 10, 2016, 10:34:32 AM
Can't imagine Mary Peters would have got the same mileage out of her gold if it had been for Ireland.
And she isn't even from the North. English born I believe.
She has fairly milked it
Aye, think she was born in Liverpool, came her when she was about 10, grew up in Portiedown
Always appeared to me to be gay as a badger, but I'm probably wrong
How come she won her Olympic gold medal at the age of 33?
Mary Peters came over as a young girl and was educated in my home town,Portadown College and was brought up in Armagh City.A great ambassador,non sectarian,I remember her at Charlie Nash World Title Fights in Glasgow circa 1980
The thing is she is British and has every right to be,just as others have the right to be Irish.
As I said before Catholics get a far rougher time on this Board than they do at Windsor Park.This thread is the height of hypocrisy.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 10, 2016, 07:45:05 PM
Mary Peters came over as a young girl and was educated in my home town,Portadown College and was brought up in Armagh City.A great ambassador,non sectarian,I remember her at Charlie Nash World Title Fights in Glasgow circa 1980
The thing is she is British and has every right to be,just as others have the right to be Irish.
As I said before Catholics get a far rougher time on this Board than they do at Windsor Park.This thread is the height of hypocrisy.
You have some cheek Fearon, considering you are the one who blamed the families for the clerical abuse of their own children, on this board.
You could start a thread on Fearon inconsistencies. For a long time he was vehemently anti OWC in all forms. One Damascene conversion later......
The republic v norn iron world cup match when jack charlton was manager i spoke to a couple of players and supporters about that night, they said they never witnessed anything like the sectarian abuse hatred at that match.I know it was a while back but if the republic were to play the north again it would be interesting to see what would happen.James mc clean would get a nice welcome!
Do Catholics get a rough time on this Board? Is there not a thread entitled "Catholic Nonsense?"
I have been to two NI v Republic games at Windsor Park (but not the infamous one in Nov 1993).The hatred and sectarianism was deplorable.However I believe times have changed for the better.
Dunno what the problem is. I went to a game there wearing a Laois Gaa hoodie and no one said a word to me.
Quote from: laoislad on October 10, 2016, 08:52:37 PM
Dunno what the problem is. I went to a game there wearing a Laois Gaa hoodie and no one said a word to me.
Queens county, you see.
Quote from: laoislad on October 10, 2016, 08:52:37 PM
Dunno what the problem is. I went to a game there wearing a Laois Gaa hoodie and no one said a word to me.
Your eyes must be too close together. They probably thought you were one of them.
Windsor Park is the Katie Hopkins of international soccer
Quote from: seafoid on October 10, 2016, 09:36:38 PM
Windsor Park is the Katie Hopkins of international soccer
Did you think that one up all by yourself?
Fck I see that ballbag Jim Mc Donald was one of the legends at it
So he was
Quote from: AQMP on October 10, 2016, 10:43:06 PM
Fair play to Jason Smyth for speaking up. Windsor Pk now a cold house for Mormons?
Must be a kaflic Mormon all the same... :o
Do you think Windsor park is in Ireland ?
There was only room for one token taig - Dennis Taylor.
I don't know why people are getting upset over this. It's like a catholic being upset for not being invited to the Orange Order's AGM. Why the feck would ye want to be there?!
Quote from: BennyCake on October 11, 2016, 10:24:53 AM
There was only room for one token taig - Dennis Taylor.
I don't know why people are getting upset over this. It's like a catholic being upset for not being invited to the Orange Order's AGM. Why the feck would ye want to be there?!
Thought it a bit strange that Michael McKillops agent rang the IFA last week to ask why he hadn't been invited
Quote from: laoislad on October 10, 2016, 08:52:37 PM
Dunno what the problem is. I went to a game there wearing a Laois Gaa hoodie and no one said a word to me.
You are one naive and silly boy, you have no idea how lucky you were, and I am not kidding.
Quote from: uimhr ocht on October 10, 2016, 08:26:37 PM
The republic v norn iron world cup match when jack charlton was manager i spoke to a couple of players and supporters about that night, they said they never witnessed anything like the sectarian abuse hatred at that match.I know it was a while back but if the republic were to play the north again it would be interesting to see what would happen.James mc clean would get a nice welcome!
A very close friend of mines was at it and he said he never in his life felt such naked sectarian hate. He said that he actually feared for his life if the people around had of known he was a catholic. He went on to explain how this one republic supporter manage to get a ticket in the area he was in and jumped and celebrated when the republic scored their goal, he got the shite beat out of him.
Quote from: Man Marker on October 11, 2016, 11:45:14 AM
Quote from: laoislad on October 10, 2016, 08:52:37 PM
Dunno what the problem is. I went to a game there wearing a Laois Gaa hoodie and no one said a word to me.
You are one naive and silly boy, you have no idea how lucky you were, and I am not kidding.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/u52gRNybAmAy4/giphy.gif)
Quote from: BennyCake on October 11, 2016, 10:24:53 AM
There was only room for one token taig - Dennis Taylor.
I don't know why people are getting upset over this. It's like a catholic being upset for not being invited to the Orange Order's AGM. Why the feck would ye want to be there?!
Exactly, though I know we will get chastised for being narrow minded and stuck in the past. One of the very many reasons why I have no time for OWC is that you see their flags flying beside unions jacks and every loyalist paramilitary fleg known to low-brow knuckle draggers.
But that can't go against the genuine work being done by some groups to encourage a cross community support for the NI team... look it's taken x amount of years to stop killing each other... we still live in a divided county schools and housing. Integration in decades away in that regard...
Fear of Themons and their views will be 3 or 4 generations after proper integration has happened... it's happening in a lot of areas but the type of support that follows soccer is generally working class where education or tolerance isn't at the top of their good points..
It's not a big story to be fair or a shock
Was our Rors there.
Quote from: laoislad on October 11, 2016, 02:15:01 PM
Was our Rors there.
Yes, in a Laois hoodie apparently.
The Belly telly said it was an oversight. The 2 boxers weren't invited either mar dhea. #PSFPP.
Oonagh O'Reilly (IFA Marketing Director) not reaching out. Pesky unionists :o
Quote from: Man Marker on October 11, 2016, 11:48:40 AM
A very close friend of mines was at it and he said he never in his life felt such naked sectarian hate. He said that he actually feared for his life if the people around had of known he was a catholic. He went on to explain how this one republic supporter manage to get a ticket in the area he was in and jumped and celebrated when the republic scored their goal, he got the shite beat out of him.
Well if you can take things back 13 years ago: I got abused and attacked by some of Jackie's Army in Dublin City centre. The greatest fans in the world took issue with me being a "bog-trotter" because I was wearing a Clare hurling jersey.
I wasn't in Windsor in 1993 but I think a stadium being intimidating isn't all about sectarianism. One Republic player wrote in his autobiography about the massive celebrations when Jimmy Quinn scored his goal. I am sure there was sectarianism on view but when people seem to have the hump that they didn't want to roll over to neighbours and rivals it belittles the overall argument.
No idea what it is like there today but one's instinct is to suspect it is better when detractors leap to a 13 year old incident.
/Jim.
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on October 11, 2016, 02:38:20 PM
Quote from: Man Marker on October 11, 2016, 11:48:40 AM
A very close friend of mines was at it and he said he never in his life felt such naked sectarian hate. He said that he actually feared for his life if the people around had of known he was a catholic. He went on to explain how this one republic supporter manage to get a ticket in the area he was in and jumped and celebrated when the republic scored their goal, he got the shite beat out of him.
Well if you can take things back 13 years ago: I got abused and attacked by some of Jackie's Army in Dublin City centre. The greatest fans in the world took issue with me being a "bog-trotter" because I was wearing a Clare hurling jersey.
I wasn't in Windsor in 1993 but I think a stadium being intimidating isn't all about sectarianism. One Republic player wrote in his autobiography about the massive celebrations when Jimmy Quinn scored his goal. I am sure there was sectarianism on view but when people seem to have the hump that they didn't want to roll over to neighbours and rivals it belittles the overall argument.
No idea what it is like there today but one's instinct is to suspect it is better when detractors leap to a 13 year old incident.
/Jim.
In fairness you deserved it for that!
I was merely pointing out the acid test would be when the republic played the north at windsor park present day, it would see if they have turned over a new leaf on sectarianism,nationalism,inclusion,etc,even present day i have my doubts!
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 11, 2016, 02:53:30 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on October 11, 2016, 02:38:20 PM
Quote from: Man Marker on October 11, 2016, 11:48:40 AM
A very close friend of mines was at it and he said he never in his life felt such naked sectarian hate. He said that he actually feared for his life if the people around had of known he was a catholic. He went on to explain how this one republic supporter manage to get a ticket in the area he was in and jumped and celebrated when the republic scored their goal, he got the shite beat out of him.
Well if you can take things back 13 years ago: I got abused and attacked by some of Jackie's Army in Dublin City centre. The greatest fans in the world took issue with me being a "bog-trotter" because I was wearing a Clare hurling jersey.
I wasn't in Windsor in 1993 but I think a stadium being intimidating isn't all about sectarianism. One Republic player wrote in his autobiography about the massive celebrations when Jimmy Quinn scored his goal. I am sure there was sectarianism on view but when people seem to have the hump that they didn't want to roll over to neighbours and rivals it belittles the overall argument.
No idea what it is like there today but one's instinct is to suspect it is better when detractors leap to a 13 year old incident.
/Jim.
In fairness you deserved it for that!
Indeed and I thought of just typing GAA jersey but went with full disclosure. To these lads I think any GAA jersey was as culchie as the next one (even a Dublin one I suspect)
/Jim.
Quote from: BennyCake on October 11, 2016, 10:24:53 AM
There was only room for one token taig - Dennis Taylor.
I don't know why people are getting upset over this. It's like a catholic being upset for not being invited to the Orange Order's AGM. Why the feck would ye want to be there?!
Dunno about that. Had a look online and I see that Jenning, Donaghy, Holmes were there so it wasn't a Kafflick thing. Also as rugby and boxers (Frampton was one) attended it means that representing "Ireland" doesn't seem to be the thing.
His only potential gripe is that he is more famous than the two wimmin paraolympians and that they got there for being Team GB..... Frankly a little tenuous and more than a little egotistical looking at it.
Last two pages have thrown up this and a 13 year old story of a fan getting a kicking when surrounded by rival fans at a sawker match. I'd wager that Queen's Counsel Brolly would have this one fired out of court in jig time. M'Lud.
/Jim.
Never mind the IFA what about the FAI requiring its Northern based fans to register under "United Kingdom?"
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 11, 2016, 02:53:30 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on October 11, 2016, 02:38:20 PM
Quote from: Man Marker on October 11, 2016, 11:48:40 AM
A very close friend of mines was at it and he said he never in his life felt such naked sectarian hate. He said that he actually feared for his life if the people around had of known he was a catholic. He went on to explain how this one republic supporter manage to get a ticket in the area he was in and jumped and celebrated when the republic scored their goal, he got the shite beat out of him.
Well if you can take things back 13 years ago: I got abused and attacked by some of Jackie's Army in Dublin City centre. The greatest fans in the world took issue with me being a "bog-trotter" because I was wearing a Clare hurling jersey.
I wasn't in Windsor in 1993 but I think a stadium being intimidating isn't all about sectarianism. One Republic player wrote in his autobiography about the massive celebrations when Jimmy Quinn scored his goal. I am sure there was sectarianism on view but when people seem to have the hump that they didn't want to roll over to neighbours and rivals it belittles the overall argument.
No idea what it is like there today but one's instinct is to suspect it is better when detractors leap to a 13 year old incident.
/Jim.
In fairness you deserved it for that!
Might have been the Clare shout that clinched it
I think the Northern body are trying very hard to rid themselves of the scum element of their support and to a great degree they have succeeded.
93 was horrific, I think the fans now are much more aware of the need to behave themselves and not let the side down, the supporters clubs have been working very hard to rid the support of the scumbags.
I won't be going to Windsor anytime soon but I think,progress has been made and I tip my cap to them for that.
The middle class swathes that have swarmed to 'Windsor Park at the National Stadium' has also been a reason a lot of the Loyalist element have gone. There must be work getting done somewhere as the number of young lads in Northern Ireland training gear knocking about the West is something that was unheard of a number of years ago.
Quote from: stew on October 11, 2016, 07:36:34 PM
I think the Northern body are trying very hard to rid themselves of the scum element of their support and to a great degree they have succeeded.
93 was horrific, I think the fans now are much more aware of the need to behave themselves and not let the side down, the supporters clubs have been working very hard to rid the support of the scumbags.
I won't be going to Windsor anytime soon but I think,progress has been made and I tip my cap to them for that.
I would agree with that. There are still knuckle draggers but there is effort going in and that is a start.
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 11, 2016, 08:14:52 PM
The middle class swathes that have swarmed to 'Windsor Park at the National Stadium' has also been a reason a lot of the Loyalist element have gone. There must be work getting done somewhere as the number of young lads in Northern Ireland training gear knocking about the West is something that was unheard of a number of years ago.
It's bandwagon because they got to the euros. It will soon die down.
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 11, 2016, 08:14:52 PM
The middle class swathes that have swarmed to 'Windsor Park at the National Stadium' has also been a reason a lot of the Loyalist element have gone. There must be work getting done somewhere as the number of young lads in Northern Ireland training gear knocking about the West is something that was unheard of a number of years ago.
Wrong snoopdog
Lot of kids are getting a chance at youth level which is generating this interest..
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 11, 2016, 08:38:05 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 11, 2016, 08:14:52 PM
The middle class swathes that have swarmed to 'Windsor Park at the National Stadium' has also been a reason a lot of the Loyalist element have gone. There must be work getting done somewhere as the number of young lads in Northern Ireland training gear knocking about the West is something that was unheard of a number of years ago.
Wrong snoopdog
Lot of kids are getting a chance at youth level which is generating this interest..
where they not given the chance 20 years ago?
Go to Windsor park on a Saturday and see how comfortable you feel when home club are playing. I sat in the family section and heard nothing but sectarian abuse directed at Cliftonville manager (at the time) Tommy Breslin. The fact that the IFA turned down the Maze prison site and instead chose to continue funding one of the more toxic clubs in local football means that no amount of "grassroots outreach" will make up for their inherent sectarian leanings, that's not forgetting the English national anthem and accompanying Loyalist flag.
Quote from: snoopdog on October 11, 2016, 08:56:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 11, 2016, 08:38:05 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 11, 2016, 08:14:52 PM
The middle class swathes that have swarmed to 'Windsor Park at the National Stadium' has also been a reason a lot of the Loyalist element have gone. There must be work getting done somewhere as the number of young lads in Northern Ireland training gear knocking about the West is something that was unheard of a number of years ago.
Wrong snoopdog
Lot of kids are getting a chance at youth level which is generating this interest..
where they not given the chance 20 years ago?
20 years ago hmmmmm now did you live on the Falls 20 years ago? Peace process just on, people still at odds with each other, loyalist gangs and dissidents killing and blowing people up, not exactly the right time
Bad result out of the way tonight for Ireland but other results went OK for us . Second all to play for here .
Quote from: general_lee on October 11, 2016, 09:08:41 PM
Go to Windsor park on a Saturday and see how comfortable you feel when home club are playing. I sat in the family section and heard nothing but sectarian abuse directed at Cliftonville manager (at the time) Tommy Breslin. The fact that the IFA turned down the Maze prison site and instead chose to continue funding one of the more toxic clubs in local football means that no amount of "grassroots outreach" will make up for their inherent sectarian leanings, that's not forgetting the English national anthem and accompanying Loyalist flag.
Absolutely 100% on the money there. Was always a sectarian cesspit, you can dress the pig up put perfume and lipstick on it, but it will always be the pig.
Quote from: Bazil Douglas on October 11, 2016, 11:54:23 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 11, 2016, 09:08:41 PM
Go to Windsor park on a Saturday and see how comfortable you feel when home club are playing. I sat in the family section and heard nothing but sectarian abuse directed at Cliftonville manager (at the time) Tommy Breslin. The fact that the IFA turned down the Maze prison site and instead chose to continue funding one of the more toxic clubs in local football means that no amount of "grassroots outreach" will make up for their inherent sectarian leanings, that's not forgetting the English national anthem and accompanying Loyalist flag.
Absolutely 100% on the money there. Was always a sectarian cesspit, you can dress the pig up put perfume and lipstick on it, but it will always be the pig.
Go to Soildtude when they play Linfield and sit at old cage end. Then come back and make comments about pigs and lipstick. Or the hanging effigy at Celtic park! Wake up there are wankers on both sides, it's just people are happy to think that the other wankers are worse!
In the main the kind of people who go to soccer matches are agressive , hateful , alpha males. A significant percentage of those who follow the ROI and NI are hateful and agressive . The same applies to the clubs these kind of people support. I don't go to soccer much now bar a few Limerick games each year. I used to go to ROI games but don't bother now .
What other public places in NI ( that would be welcoming to everyone in a state that was normal ) are as bad as Windsor park ? Or is it out on its own?
Quote from: seafoid on October 12, 2016, 05:24:18 AM
What other public places in NI ( that would be welcoming to everyone in a state that was normal ) are as bad as Windsor park ? Or is it out on its own?
Read my earlier post and go to this fixture
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 12, 2016, 07:37:07 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 12, 2016, 05:24:18 AM
What other public places in NI ( that would be welcoming to everyone in a state that was normal ) are as bad as Windsor park ? Or is it out on its own?
Read my earlier post and go to this fixture
Other than sport, MR. Is there anywhere else you wouldn't bring the kids?
Quote from: ashman on October 12, 2016, 01:03:31 AM
In the main the kind of people who go to soccer matches are agressive , hateful , alpha males. A significant percentage of those who follow the ROI and NI are hateful and agressive . The same applies to the clubs these kind of people support. I don't go to soccer much now bar a few Limerick games each year. I used to go to ROI games but don't bother now .
So you're a hateful and aggressive male by your own definition
Quote from: JoG2 on October 12, 2016, 07:59:28 AM
Quote from: ashman on October 12, 2016, 01:03:31 AM
In the main the kind of people who go to soccer matches are agressive , hateful , alpha males. A significant percentage of those who follow the ROI and NI are hateful and agressive . The same applies to the clubs these kind of people support. I don't go to soccer much now bar a few Limerick games each year. I used to go to ROI games but don't bother now .
So you're a hateful and aggressive male by your own definition
Most soccer supporters by that definition
Quote from: seafoid on October 12, 2016, 07:56:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 12, 2016, 07:37:07 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 12, 2016, 05:24:18 AM
What other public places in NI ( that would be welcoming to everyone in a state that was normal ) are as bad as Windsor park ? Or is it out on its own?
Read my earlier post and go to this fixture
Other than sport, MR. Is there anywhere else you wouldn't bring the kids?
Bonfires on the 11th night? Or the bonfires that still happen on interment night which still goes on!