http://ourweecountry.ipbhost.com/index.php?s=d5f26fdadc0004b3a11d3bae67217172&showtopic=18886
There you have it, the people that allegedly want Football for All, venting their absolute hatred for the GAA and linking them mischieviously with paramilitary organisations, which could well have fatal consequences for any one of us.
Observe the hypocrisy also, they dont want a so called terrorist shrine at the Maze but a lot of them and their politicians who vociferously oppose the Maze (yes Poots, Dodds, Mc Narry who once branded Portaferry in his own constituence a "fenian hole") are members of the Orange Order who parade openly with banners honouring notorious Unionist Paramiltarty murderers etc.
Also I am enraged by that fcukwit big eared cnut Poots misrepresenting the GAA. Danny Murphy sets the record straight in to-day's Itish News when he denies that the GAA vetoed a Belfast stadium but explained that of the two feasible sites on offer, they indicated their preference for the Maze, as they have to serve all of Ulster including Monaghan, Cavan and Donegal. >:(
It goes to show how unfit the Paisleyites are to be in government given their inability to govern on behalf of all the people >:(
The GAA doesn't need any new stadium - why give a f**k what the bigots say - if the soccer crowd and ruggers crowd want to share a stadium that neither will fill - let them knock themselves out.
They are some shower on there, I nearly spat my coffee out laughing when I read one guy call them "Sinn Fein/GAA"
I mean how pathetic is that ::)
Just listening to the Nolan show on Radio 6 counties and a caller - Billy McBigot - I think his name was, came on a attacked the GAA, claimed that both he and the majority of OWC fans hated the GAA and wanted nothing to do with them - in other words to paraphrase his elocquent phonecall - "hate the GAA and would they all, ever fcuk off"
DGA, ive heard the same thing about NI football team on numerous occasions, on here and elsewhere. Bigots exist and hate people who arent like them - we have to all deal with that
I have been trying to tell you for the last four years what this shower are like, always have been and always will be. Now do you see how shallow the so called Football for All Campaign really is? How any catholic/nationalist can represent or watch their team simply beggars belief.
Tony, you can not read the comments of a handful of people and make judgements about everyone.
Youve changed your tune since your love in with mac, i didnt think it would last.
A handful of people? Thats a five page long thread as far as I can see and is totally shameful bringing out the deep seated prejudices whice you cannot deny are a microcosm of the vast majority of North of Ireland supporters.
The attack on the GAA is withouit foundation, given that the Ulster President has made it clear that they didn't veto a Belfast site but merely indicated their preferred option of the two placed before them.
Also do you agree that it is hypocritical of Dodds, Mc Narry etc to oppose a so called terrorist shrine when their Orange Order parades openly with banners glorifying unionist paramilitary murderers?
Nifan, I have to agree with Tony, its more than a handful on there that are bigots.
really, out of NI fans, and even members of the site?
How many can you read and say are attacking the GAA - not just disagreeing with them.
There have been numerous long threads on this site attacking NI football and their fans, yet I dont presume that all GAA fans have the same views
Why did you have to go that site to look for those sorts of comments? There are plenty of examples of similar thinking posted on here with regular occurence. Its nothing we didnt know before.
Can anybody post what Danny Murphy said?
Why aren't the BBC carrying the rebuttal when they carried Potts veto nonsense?
Nifan - one of the main points of the arguments on owc is the GAA vetoing (sp) any Belfast site. ???
NIfan, I don't think I have ever attacked any N.Ireland fan. I have attacked the FFA campaign and the IFA, with I feel, good reason.
I would be interested to hear your views on the unionist politcians who oppose the terrorist shrine yet retain membership of the Orange Order which glorifies murderers and terrorists on its banners?
If the GAA arent vetoing Belfast it shows once again what a p***k Whitehead is.
He said to a group of us (and I was there talking to him so it is 100% genuine) that the GAA said the would not countenance any location in Belfast.
Great way for the guy to promote a shared stadium - telling one group a lie about another group.
Quote from: T Fearon on July 25, 2007, 10:49:57 AM
NIfan, I don't think I have ever attacked any N.Ireland fan. I have attacked the FFA campaign and the IFA, with I feel, good reason.
I would be interested to hear your views on the unionist politcians who oppose the terrorist shrine yet retain membership of the Orange Order which glorifies murderers and terrorists on its banners?
Tony, you have consistently attacked NI fans. You have constantly called them neanderthals, collectively referred to them as bigots etc etc. You have also claimed "they" will never change. Please dont play innocent ::)
As for FFA, driven in large by the fans, why do you attack it? It is undeniable to anyone who has looked that it is having a positive effect.
Quote from: nifan on July 25, 2007, 10:54:39 AM
You have constantly called them neanderthals, collectively referred to them as bigots etc etc. You have also claimed "they" will never change. Please dont play innocent ::)
Similar things have been said to most who dare to disagree with the OWC contingent on here, and worse.
Poots is the person who should resign, as he has misrepresented both the GAA and IFA, and has copped out. People in positions of responsibility are going to be unpopular.
FFA is not identifying the problem. As I said before if the NI Football team is taken off the radar as a totemic symbol of unionism, then the bigots who besmirch its name and reputation will simply disappear and could be replaced by a cross community element. The only way to do this is for the IFA to jettison unionist symbols. Unless and until they do this they cannot claim to be promoting FAA.The current FFA for all Campaign has attracted no significant upturn in Catholic/nationalist support for the team.
Also would you care to answer the question re terrorist shrine and unionist politicians membership of the Orange Order which glorifies terrorists on its banners?
I dont normally get involved in these threads, but WTF.
Nifan, the information given out was incorrect, granted, but can you recognise how spiteful that thread is on owc? It shows a lot of owc'ers are just waiting for the chance to vent their hatred.
The hatred seeps from the majority of the posts.
When it is pointed out how the GAA favour a city stadium because of safety issues etc, some poster says the supporters can drive through the markets to get to the stadia because they wont throw stones at the GAA fans!!
Quote from: his holiness nb on July 25, 2007, 11:06:30 AM
Quote from: nifan on July 25, 2007, 10:54:39 AM
You have constantly called them neanderthals, collectively referred to them as bigots etc etc. You have also claimed "they" will never change. Please dont play innocent ::)
Similar things have been said to most who dare to disagree with the OWC contingent on here, and worse.
By who? I dont know anyone who has labeled "gaa fans" as bigots, or refered to them all collectively as bigots.
And if they say it are they not rightly derided.
Any accusation should always be tempered with the fact that there are decent folks in all sports and all walks of life. No doubt Fearon is going over the top.
However there is a substantial body of contributors on a certain website who at best always think the worst of the GAA's motives and at worst are entirely bigotted. There is another thread ongoing over there on the subject of sporting tops and some of the contributing are dripping with irony and hipocracy: http://ourweecountry.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=18711&st=60 (http://ourweecountry.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=18711&st=60) Note that the Sickboy is big fan of the British security forces. No doubt if you confronted him with your repulsion at the acts of even some of it's actions, the bigot accusation would be immediately bandied about.
At least some of the contributors have the gumption to point out that it's the fact that Nationalists wear GAA jersies that is the real issue.
The fact of the matter is that the GAA were foisted into this stadium issue and finding themselves in the situation, why wouldn't they drive for the best deal for them. Remember too that engagement is at Central Council not Ulster council level so the argument about Sinn Féin influence is bullshít. I don't think the GAA have made any ultimatums with regard to the Maze site, only on the size of the stadium. Why would they want a stadium that is no bigger than what they already have?
/Jim.
Quote from: T Fearon on July 25, 2007, 11:09:52 AM
Poots is the person who should resign, as he has misrepresented both the GAA and IFA, and has copped out. People in positions of responsibility are going to be unpopular.
FFA is not identifying the problem. As I said before if the NI Football team is taken off the radar as a totemic symbol of unionism, then the bigots who besmirch its name and reputation will simply disappear and could be replaced by a cross community element. The only way to do this is for the IFA to jettison unionist symbols. Unless and until they do this they cannot claim to be promoting FAA.The current FFA for all Campaign has attracted no significant upturn in Catholic/nationalist support for the team.
Also would you care to answer the question re terrorist shrine and unionist politicians membership of the Orange Order which glorifies terrorists on its banners?
Tony, you have no knowledge of the number of catholics in attendance so are in no position to state that there has been no upturn. And your refusal to ever comment on the numerous improvements that have been made, instead sticking to your old mantras and comments of "no matter what i know things will never change" i speaks volumes for you.
As for the question, i am not a member of, and dont in fact like, the OO, dont vote for any political party (and if i did it certainly wouldnt be DUP despite what lynchboy may think) so i dont see why you would seek my opinion here.
Quote from: full back on July 25, 2007, 11:10:36 AM
Nifan, the information given out was incorrect, granted, but can you recognise how spiteful that thread is on owc? It shows a lot of owc'ers are just waiting for the chance to vent their hatred.
The hatred seeps from the majority of the posts.
When it is pointed out how the GAA favour a city stadium because of safety issues etc, some poster says the supporters can drive through the markets to get to the stadia because they wont throw stones at the GAA fans!!
full back, i accept the spite of some - there are people who dislike the gaa to various levels, including despise.
I have pulled people on it numerous times on OWC, as im sure anyone who knows my username there can testify,
I didnt see the comments about the markets personally but i assume its a crack at the fact that wee hoods line up to stone NI fans there after games.
Quote from: nifan on July 25, 2007, 11:12:17 AM
Quote from: his holiness nb on July 25, 2007, 11:06:30 AM
Quote from: nifan on July 25, 2007, 10:54:39 AM
You have constantly called them neanderthals, collectively referred to them as bigots etc etc. You have also claimed "they" will never change. Please dont play innocent ::)
Similar things have been said to most who dare to disagree with the OWC contingent on here, and worse.
By who? I dont know anyone who has labeled "gaa fans" as bigots, or refered to them all collectively as bigots.
And if they say it are they not rightly derided.
Of course they are derided, as we would be on OWC if we went on there abusing them. Doesnt make it right though.
You know who they are Nifan, and before you ask no I wont trawl through their hundreds of posts for examples.
In fairness you are not one of them.
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on July 25, 2007, 11:14:11 AM
There is another thread ongoing over there on the subject of sporting tops and some of the contributing are dripping with irony and hipocracy: http://ourweecountry.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=18711&st=60 (http://ourweecountry.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=18711&st=60) Note that the Sickboy is big fan of the British security forces. No doubt if you confronted him with your repulsion at the acts of even some of it's actions, the bigot accusation would be immediately bandied about.
At least some of the contributors have the gumption to point out that it's the fact that Nationalists wear GAA jersies that is the real issue.
I have a few other county jerseys apart from the Armagh one (aye, so it didn't get too much wearing this year) but I'd only wear them when abroad in London or Spain etc; - purely to identify myself as Irish to anyone.
I wouldn't wear a Tyrone top, mind.
Golden Boy
View Member Profile Yesterday, 10:45 PM Post #64
Group: Patrons
Posts: 5738
Joined: 20-May 04
From: The Cold North Coast
Member No.: 135
Since the sh1t about the Maze started I have given a lot of thought as to what I would do if HMG capitulated to Republicans...let's call a spade a spade here - IRA/SF are pulling the GAA's strings...bulldozed over the two other sporting bodies, erect a purpose-built gaelic stadium and told the rest of us to go to hell and like it or lump it.
Sinn Fein/GAA have now officially vetoed all Belfast sites, ergo it's the Maze or nothing as far as they are concerned...so, if HMG/Stormont and wingnut drop their collective trousers to them, claim it's "the Maze or nothing" and build a new stadium there, I have now made the decision that I will not be renewing my BB ticket and will boycott this insult to cross community sports.
The Maze can go to Hell as far as I'm concerned...the IFA and HMG have neither balls nor any moral courage if they allow these fcukers to tell them where they won't go and, by default, coax them to build it where Republicans tell them to.
Let Adolf Wells's new-found supporter base take up the spare seats he claims will be filled.
--------------------
"The rest of the sport later but first, Gaelic Games"
NO! to the Maze White Elephant.
25,000 seater stadium in Belfast please...size (and location) does matter!
Obviously this guy is one of the main posters on OWC.
And from the famous MAC - wtf has Paul Butlers "supposed" past got to do with anything!!
mac
Group: Admin.
Posts: 8630
Joined: 20-May 04
Member No.: 50
Paul Butler, PSF, April 2007:
"no sporting venue would be built without agreement on developing the prison buildings for tourists...both the stadium and the preserved prison buildings projects are joined at the hip and must proceed simultaneously"
At the age of 17, Butler shot dead a 50-year-old reserve Royal Ulster Constabulary officer.
Thats just two quotes from 2 of OWC's most prolific posters one of whom is admin, Nifan (not having a go at you here) there are many other quotes and threads which can be posted from OWC to show the contempt and hatred that OWC have for the GAA.
Quote from: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on July 25, 2007, 11:23:58 AM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on July 25, 2007, 11:14:11 AM
There is another thread ongoing over there on the subject of sporting tops and some of the contributing are dripping with irony and hipocracy: http://ourweecountry.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=18711&st=60 (http://ourweecountry.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=18711&st=60) Note that the Sickboy is big fan of the British security forces. No doubt if you confronted him with your repulsion at the acts of even some of it's actions, the bigot accusation would be immediately bandied about.
At least some of the contributors have the gumption to point out that it's the fact that Nationalists wear GAA jersies that is the real issue.
I have a few other county jerseys apart from the Armagh one (aye, so it didn't get too much wearing this year) but I'd only wear them when abroad in London or Spain etc; - purely to identify myself as Irish to anyone.
I wouldn't wear a Tyrone top, mind.
What not even if GetAwaytoFuck said you could be Peter?
Quotethat OWC have for the GAA.
Again with the generalisations.
The number of posts tony has posted over the years doesnt make his opinion any more important/representative than they ever have done.
"The rest of the sport later but first, Gaelic Games"
Ahem but what other attitude would the GAA take, other than the above. We had this shíte about opening Croke Park too. The GAA is charged with promoting Gaelic Games and getting the best for those games. There are equivalent bodies to do the same for rugby and soccer. They should promote their wants and needs, not expect the GAA to do it.
At the end of the day, the GAA only want a stadium in Ulster that is bigger than their exisiting one. The probably will only use it very seldom as respective County Boards will want their grounds used where possible. But it is their right to pursue this line, it's the only one that makes sense from a GAA point of view.
/Jim.
Quote from: An Fear Rua on July 25, 2007, 11:28:41 AM
I wouldn't wear a Tyrone top, mind.
What not even if GetAwaytoFuck said you could be Peter?
Nah, his diving suit would be too tight for me!
My point here is that OWC allegedly promote's Football for All, and host back slapping award ceremonies to honour each other for doing so. What credibility has this got now?
I still maintain that this thread is a microcosm in general for the North of Ireland support and its plain to see why the team attracts no cross community support and is shunned by 45% of the population
As for making allegations about peoples past deeds that is reprehensible. There is at least one unionist paramilitary murderer who is an ordained minister with Paisley's Church, yet we don't go round protesting about the erection of Free Presbyetrain Churches
Also NIfan, whether you like the OO or not, or vote for Unionist parties or not is irrelevant. It is claer that those members of OWC and Unionist politicians who are members of the OO who oppose the Maze because of the alleged terrorist shrine are hypocrits as they parade behind banners glorifying unionist paramilitary murderers. This is a fact and I would welcome your admission of it
I'm amused that this T Fearon character, and others, seem so upset/shocked at some of the more hardline comments that appear on that thread that is linked to, while being blind to some of the frequently shockingly anti-Brit/Prod/Unionist stuff that is posted here often.
Or perhaps the soccer forum users should feel complimented that the T Fearons, etc, of this world expect higher standards from those on the soccer forum than on this one? Hmmmmmmm ....
Gweltyah, what about shockingly anti-irish/gaa/nationalist stuff thats posted on here?
I'm surprised you didnt mention any of that, especially as a lot of it comes from you.
At least we dont spend our day over on OWC trying to stir up arguments ::)
But again, rather that comment on the title subject you reply, not to condemn the comments, but to point out the "balancing" comments from the other side, as you perceive them, how terribly original ::)
Quote from: his holiness nb on July 25, 2007, 12:15:20 PM
Gweltyah, what about shockingly anti-irish/gaa/nationalist stuff thats posted on here?
I'm surprised you didnt mention any of that, especially as a lot of it comes from you.
At least we dont spend our day over on OWC trying to stir up arguments ::)
But again, rather that comment on the title subject you reply, not to condemn the comments, but to point out the "balancing" comments from the other side, as you perceive them, how terribly original ::)
You know what, I think you're badly in need of relief - ANY relief. Hope you're old enough and that someone will even take you by the hand.
;D
In my thirtees and happily married with no sexual tension if thats what you are asking :-\
I just dont like wankers!
Certainly doesn't look good when the likes of Sickboy on OWC are actually Admin over there. A bigger bigotted barsteward you'd be hard pushed to meet.
From what I can see the GAA have a preference for a site outside Belfast as they have to cater for the whole of Ulster not just the housing estates of Belfast and plus they already have a ground in Belfast.
How far out is the Maze from Belfast anyway? Many modern grounds in big cities these days require a bit of travelling to get to and I would have thought that OWC brigade would have jumped at the chance of having any half-decent stadium offered to them rather than demanding that it only be situated wherever it suited them.
The whole point is that they don't want to share anything with the GAA/Fenians (insert your own term).
The Maze is at most 15 minutes away from Belfast where most of the pubs don't want OWCers (ie players or supporters, ask Healy ;D) anyway and is linked by a motorway. It is the ideal and indeed only viable location for a muti sports stadium/lesiure entertainment complex
It all boils down to as I see it who should wirled the bigger influence. the GAA (33,000 attended the Ulster Final in Clones a week and a half ago) or a soccer team that attracts 6000 in bad times or 13,000 when it defeats mediocrities like England, Sweden and Spain.
I have no doubt that if the GAA did agree to a stadium in Belfast the bigots would find some other excuse
Notice that the bbc.co.uk/ni website has not published any comments from the Ulster Council relating to their statement. Either an oversight on behalf of the bbc or poor pr work from the Ulster Council. In any case in todays paper we can read what the position of the Ulster Council is and it is in stark contrast to the information we heard yesterday:
QuoteUlster did not say no to Belfast stadia plans
GAA
By Paddy Heaney
Ulster Council secretary Danny Murphy has refuted claims that the GAA has refused to agree to a multi-sports stadium being built in Belfast.
Northern Ireland Sports Minister Edwin Poots was reported as telling a meeting of the Assembly's culture comittee that the GAA ruled out proposed stadia both on Belfast's north foreshore and in the Titanic Quarter.
Gaelic games, soccer and rugby would be played at any future venue and plans have been drawn up for a 35,000-capacity stadium at the Maze site, outside Lisburn.
However, Ulster secretary Murphy has strongly denied the suggestion that the northern GAA body had taken a stance against a stadium in Belfast.
He insisted that the Ulster Council had simply expressed its preference for the Maze site without ever taking a negative position on a city-based stadium. Murphy also noted that the Ulster Council had never been asked to consider the Titanic Quarter site.
article continues
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Murphy said: "The Ulster GAA considered the two sites which were put forward to us, one on the northern foreshore, and the other one was the Maze/Long Kesh site.
"As far as we were concerned, the Titanic Quarter was eliminated by the time it got to the stage where we were involved.
"We chose the Maze/Long Kesh site because we believe it represented the best location.
"We did not take a decision against a Belfast site. We took a pro-active view on behalf of the Council's need for a stadium and its location.''
When asked to explain why the Ulster Council preferred the former prison site, Murphy cited finance and accessibility for the entire province as key reasons.
"When the matter was put to us, the economic argument had already reduced the field to two. The economic argument favoured the Maze/Long Kesh site as opposed to the northern foreshore," said Murphy.
"Our preference would be to take in the jurisdiction of the province of Ulster.
"We cover the nine counties of Ulster and teams from all across it. If the stadium was going to meet a useful purpose it had to be accessible for the all of the teams that play in our jurisdiction.
"When we looked at the two sites our preferred option was for the Maze,'' he added.
When asked if he was annoyed that the DUP politician had appeared to misrepresent the Ulster Council's position on the issue, Murphy said: "I don't have a transcript of what he was supposed to have said so I can't comment.
"All I can say is that we expressed our preference from the two sites which were put before us at the time.''
Poots made the comments yesterday during a meeting of the Assembly's culture committee, which was called during the summer recess in order to address the controversial issue.
During the meeting Poots stated that the Irish Football Association was open to various sites, but its chief executive, Howard Wells, had a personal preference for the Maze.
Poots told the committee that rugby's Ulster Branch favoured a Belfast site – but that the GAA was opposed to a stadium in the city.
Could one of our OWC posters perhaps let the guys over on OWC know the true position of the Ulster Council on this matter!!
reading GalwayBoys post i looked up that sickboys posts,
Theres one long one where he tars all GAA supporters in South Armagh i think it is as Provo supporters and wants all Republican supporters removed from the streets of Ulster etc etc.
Nice.
Quote from: phpearse on July 25, 2007, 12:59:17 PM
Notice that the bbc.co.uk/ni website has not published any comments from the Ulster Council relating to their statement. Either an oversight on behalf of the bbc or poor pr work from the Ulster Council. In any case in todays paper we can read what the position of the Ulster Council is and it is in stark contrast to the information we heard yesterday:
QuoteUlster did not say no to Belfast stadia plans
GAA
By Paddy Heaney
Ulster Council secretary Danny Murphy has refuted claims that the GAA has refused to agree to a multi-sports stadium being built in Belfast.
Northern Ireland Sports Minister Edwin Poots was reported as telling a meeting of the Assembly's culture comittee that the GAA ruled out proposed stadia both on Belfast's north foreshore and in the Titanic Quarter.
Gaelic games, soccer and rugby would be played at any future venue and plans have been drawn up for a 35,000-capacity stadium at the Maze site, outside Lisburn.
However, Ulster secretary Murphy has strongly denied the suggestion that the northern GAA body had taken a stance against a stadium in Belfast.
He insisted that the Ulster Council had simply expressed its preference for the Maze site without ever taking a negative position on a city-based stadium. Murphy also noted that the Ulster Council had never been asked to consider the Titanic Quarter site.
article continues
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Murphy said: "The Ulster GAA considered the two sites which were put forward to us, one on the northern foreshore, and the other one was the Maze/Long Kesh site.
"As far as we were concerned, the Titanic Quarter was eliminated by the time it got to the stage where we were involved.
"We chose the Maze/Long Kesh site because we believe it represented the best location.
"We did not take a decision against a Belfast site. We took a pro-active view on behalf of the Council's need for a stadium and its location.''
When asked to explain why the Ulster Council preferred the former prison site, Murphy cited finance and accessibility for the entire province as key reasons.
"When the matter was put to us, the economic argument had already reduced the field to two. The economic argument favoured the Maze/Long Kesh site as opposed to the northern foreshore," said Murphy.
"Our preference would be to take in the jurisdiction of the province of Ulster.
"We cover the nine counties of Ulster and teams from all across it. If the stadium was going to meet a useful purpose it had to be accessible for the all of the teams that play in our jurisdiction.
"When we looked at the two sites our preferred option was for the Maze,'' he added.
When asked if he was annoyed that the DUP politician had appeared to misrepresent the Ulster Council's position on the issue, Murphy said: "I don't have a transcript of what he was supposed to have said so I can't comment.
"All I can say is that we expressed our preference from the two sites which were put before us at the time.''
Poots made the comments yesterday during a meeting of the Assembly's culture committee, which was called during the summer recess in order to address the controversial issue.
During the meeting Poots stated that the Irish Football Association was open to various sites, but its chief executive, Howard Wells, had a personal preference for the Maze.
Poots told the committee that rugby's Ulster Branch favoured a Belfast site – but that the GAA was opposed to a stadium in the city.
Could one of our OWC posters perhaps let the guys over on OWC know the true position of the Ulster Council on this matter!!
Interesting that BBC NI have had no problems reporting Wells "clarification" of his position.
Even if the GAA has been typically poor on the PR front, surely somebody in the BBC NI sports section must read the IN?
Or maybe not, and thats the problem with their lobsided reporting.
The real story here should be that the two sports bodies chiefs have categorically denied the ministers claims. The bbc should be pressurising poots to explain the basis and motivation for his statement.
Quote from: GweylTah on July 25, 2007, 12:17:58 PM
Quote from: his holiness nb on July 25, 2007, 12:15:20 PM
Gweltyah, what about shockingly anti-irish/gaa/nationalist stuff thats posted on here?
I'm surprised you didnt mention any of that, especially as a lot of it comes from you.
At least we dont spend our day over on OWC trying to stir up arguments ::)
But again, rather that comment on the title subject you reply, not to condemn the comments, but to point out the "balancing" comments from the other side, as you perceive them, how terribly original ::)
You know what, I think you're badly in need of relief - ANY relief. Hope you're old enough and that someone will even take you by the hand.
;D
I love the way you berate anyone who makes an insulting comment towards you. Though in your world it's quite alright for you to to it when on the back foot - you really are one hateful w**ker.
The latest installment.
Have the whole thing collapse, blame the GAA and then get a purpose built stadium.
The people making the decisions should be directed to the OWC chatrooms prior to making any decisions
QuoteQUOTE(bangor_boy @ Jul 25 2007, 11:31 AM)
Sorry forgot to put his name in there Wells it would be
I'm wondering if Wells isn't playing a hugely clever game, you know
I'm willing to accept that he's a complete tool who wants to impose the Maze on us all as a testament to his ego/legacy and doesn't give a toss what anyone thinks.
But perhaps, just perhaps, he's trying to turn the IFA's position of weakness into one of strength. At the moment, through the fault of previous (and maybe current) mismanagement, the IFA is f*cked. It has a stadium that's falling apart, no money of its own to build a new one and a revenue stream from likely limited use of a new stadium that is going to make borrowing the cash and meeting repayments and running costs a damn tall order.
So you can see why a free stadium at the Maze is a gift horse at whose mouth it might seem unwise for the IFA to take a gander. And that's Wells' public position. In contrast, the other sports can take the Maze or leave it, the GAA (although perhaps under political pressure) is fine for stadia, as is rugby unless Ulster's fortunes return to the heady days of '99. I'm guessing they also have more consistent revenue to afford to pay for upgrades at their existing homes.
Wells' problem is us, we don't want the Maze. If, however, he continues to back it, but the project falls through because of the GAA and/or the Ulster Branch or through opposition from local politicians or simply that the sums don't add up, then the IFA suddenly switches into a position of strength. It can say to the government, we backed your pet scheme to the hilt, it wasn't our fault it fell through, please reward us with a big chunk of the cash you promised and we'll build our own stadium. We'll even share it with the rugger boys if and when they need it. Unfortunately, we won't have room for a GAA pitch and they don't want a Belfast stadium anyway.
I stil suspect Wells is a tool. But maybe, just maybe, he's playing a blinder
Really, if these twats didn't exist, you would have to invent them.
They are full of self importance when few actually give a shit about Northern Irish soccer at club or international level.
The fact is without GAA supporters economic input a new stadium anywhere is simply not sustainable.
There are some really hateful cnuts on OWC alright. Mooretwin, Sickboy, Roger to name but three
Quote from: Bensars on July 25, 2007, 01:18:23 PM
The latest installment.
Have the whole thing collapse, blame the GAA and then get a purpose built stadium.
The people making the decisions should be directed to the OWC chatrooms prior to making any decisions
I'd say the conspiracies have gone to Bangor Boy's head at this stage. Of course there is the salient fact that many on that discussion board firmly believed that the GAA only got involved to veto the whole thing and sew it into Northern Irish soccer. Lately that has lost currency to the belief that the GAA are in cohoots with the Shinners to get a terrorist shrine.
It's takes years of dellusional paranoia to get that level. I've no doubt if that this issue, and many other issues were divvied up by the DUP and Shinners before they go into government. Naturally Poots can't say that but in the end the DUP probably conceeded the "terrorist shrine" and the stadium location long since. Eventually they'll realise it's the DUP not the GAA that's running this show.
/Jim.
QuoteMooretwin, Sickboy, Roger to name but three
Ach Mooretwin isn't so bad. Just a bit of an anorak. Used to be funny when he got so worked up over people calling the Irish football team "Ireland" and him refusing to use to term "Ireland" despite everyone pointing out to him that was the official name of the country as per the constitution. He used to be good value on here as Proud to be Gay. ;D
The other two are bitter bollixes alright.
Strikes me, whilst there are a few in 'the other place' who have morally questionable viewpoints about the GAA and/or the stadium, there's more of them who aren't happy with an Englishman running local soccer.
It seems their organisation is in disarray and some OWCers are almost jealous of how well run/politically astute the GAA is.
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on July 25, 2007, 01:27:49 PM
Quote from: Bensars on July 25, 2007, 01:18:23 PM
The latest installment.
Have the whole thing collapse, blame the GAA and then get a purpose built stadium.
The people making the decisions should be directed to the OWC chatrooms prior to making any decisions
I'd say the conspiracies have gone to Bangor Boy's head at this stage. Of course there is the salient fact that many on that discussion board firmly believed that the GAA only got involved to veto the whole thing and sew it into Northern Irish soccer. Lately that has lost currency to the belief that the GAA are in cohoots with the Shinners to get a terrorist shrine.
It's takes years of dellusional paranoia to get that level. I've no doubt if that this issue, and many other issues were divvied up by the DUP and Shinners before they go into government. Naturally Poots can't say that but in the end the DUP probably conceeded the "terrorist shrine" and the stadium location long since. Eventually they'll realise it's the DUP not the GAA that's running this show.
/Jim.
That being said, does anybody else distrust the shinners on this one?
Are they motivated by whats best for the GAA or with getting a H block preserved?
Their form says the latter - they didn't give a stuff about the GAA re the Casement charade.
The SDLP have been very quiet on this one.
Alisdair McDonnell even supports the Ormeau development when it plainly isn't big enough to accommodate gaelic games.
Is either nationalist party batting for the GAA?
With the BBC choosing not to carry Murphy's statement, I reckon unionists are manoeuvring to try and blame the GAA when it all goes pear shaped.
Quote from: snatter on July 25, 2007, 01:40:15 PM
That being said, does anybody else distrust the shinners on this one?
Are they motivated by whats best for the GAA or with getting a H block preserved?
Their form says the latter - they didn't give a stuff about the GAA re the Casement charade.
I would say on balance the Shinners would be more worried about getting their museum than the overall good of the GAA.
/Jim.
A few clarifications
A UVF Wing of the Maze is being preserved as well as an IRA one, but as I understand it, when entering the stadium your gaze need not fall on either, unless you wish to go out of your way to be offended. You would think that the so called "shrine" was being built in the centre circle.
As you can see it is a convenient smoke screen to oppose sharing anything with themmuns
Alastair Mc Donnell is a typical SDLP toadie, who stands for nor believes in anything, other than garnering unionist votes to keep his Westminster seat in South Belfast, dependent as he is on a split unionist vote.
Snatter, Do you not think it is more likely to go pear shaped because it is a ridiculous idea that would cost mega millions which would be much better spent on important things that are necessary and would represent better value for taxpayers money?
I don't think there is too much new on that thread from what we already know or could guess -
1. NI supporters don't want the Maze
2. The GAA would prefer the Maze
3. Therefore NI supporters are unhappy that the GAA won't support a Belfast development
There's nothing else too scandalous there, just an angry reaction as would expected, as much pointed at the IFA and Howard Wells as the GAA.
Quote from: GweylTah on July 25, 2007, 01:49:47 PM
Snatter, Do you not think it is more likely to go pear shaped because it is a ridiculous idea that would cost mega millions which would be much better spent on important things that are necessary and would represent better value for taxpayers money?
In general, I think it would be more economical to build one high quality stadium, shared by all three sports.
If all three sports can't agree, then either
1. Don't give any further state aid to any of them, and let them pay their own way - you would appear to support this when you say that money would be
"much better spent on important things that are necessary and would represent better value for taxpayers money"OR
2. Grant aid all three, but ensure that any allocation is done by need, ie the grants given should ensure that a specator at each venue enjoys the same level of comfort, regardless of which sport he /she follows. Not good enough to give 20M to each sport - rugby and soccer fans would have roofs and seats, most of our fans would still be standing on cold terraces.
Important that GAA fans are not discriminated just because they follow a much better atteneded sport.
Not my preferred option, I'd have to say -
a. too much unionist aggro when they reaise we'd get moer money than soccer or rugby.
b. money wouldn't be enough to create three grounds with facilities equal to one shared stadium.
QuoteThe whole point is that they don't want to share anything with the GAA/Fenians (insert your own term).
yes tony "they" dont want to share with fenians.
Snatter,
The Maze Stadium (stadium itself, infrastructure to and from it, clean-up costs, on-going maintenance and running costs) is going to cost hundreds of millions of pounds, in addition to the taxpayer losing out on the value of the land there which could be sold to private developers for hundreds of millions of pounds, too.
Sorry, but you won't convince me and a large number of others that this would represent good valiue for money when there are finite resources and any number of more deserving and/or viable causes.
The three could make excellent use of, say, £30m at each of their main grounds in NI. In fact, there would also be money available for grass roots sport and other sports, too, which are being ignored in all this.
Affordable housing at the Maze and possibly the RUAS moving there (they seem enthusiatic where the GAA, IFA and IRFU are at best luke-warm) with the Balmoral Show are much better ideas.
Whether they keep something to do with the Maze Prison and Long Kesh camp is neither here nor there with me, as long as its not tasteless.
Quote from: GweylTah on July 25, 2007, 02:24:59 PM
Snatter,
The Maze Stadium (stadium itself, infrastructure to and from it, clean-up costs, on-going maintenance and running costs) is going to cost hundreds of millions of pounds, in addition to the taxpayer losing out on the value of the land there which could be sold to private developers for hundreds of millions of pounds, too.
Sorry, but you won't convince me and a large number of others that this would represent good valiue for money when there are finite resources and any number of more deserving and/or viable causes.
The three could make excellent use of, say, £30m at each of their main grounds in NI. In fact, there would also be money available for grass roots sport and other sports, too, which are being ignored in all this.
Affordable housing at the Maze and possibly the RUAS moving there (they seem enthusiatic where the GAA, IFA and IRFU are at best luke-warm) with the Balmoral Show are much better ideas.
Whether they keep something to do with the Maze Prison and Long Kesh camp is neither here nor there with me, as long as its not tasteless.
30M each gets you guys and rugby a 25k/ 20k all seater stadium suitable for your much smaller crowds.
If you're getting all seated stadiums for your crowds then we would be entitled to much more to get a 35/40k all seater of our own.
No second class citizenship any more mate.
Quote from: GweylTah on July 25, 2007, 02:24:59 PM
Snatter,
The Maze Stadium (stadium itself, infrastructure to and from it, clean-up costs, on-going maintenance and running costs) is going to cost hundreds of millions of pounds, in addition to the taxpayer losing out on the value of the land there which could be sold to private developers for hundreds of millions of pounds, too.
Sorry, but you won't convince me and a large number of others that this would represent good valiue for money when there are finite resources and any number of more deserving and/or viable causes.
The three could make excellent use of, say, £30m at each of their main grounds in NI. In fact, there would also be money available for grass roots sport and other sports, too, which are being ignored in all this.
Affordable housing at the Maze and possibly the RUAS moving there (they seem enthusiatic where the GAA, IFA and IRFU are at best luke-warm) with the Balmoral Show are much better ideas.
Whether they keep something to do with the Maze Prison and Long Kesh camp is neither here nor there with me, as long as its not tasteless.
GweylTah,
All very reasonable points. However it seems to me the bone of contention here is that members of OWC website seem to think the GAA are maliciously involved in this scheme. Of all the bodies involved it would appear that the GAA arrived at a late stage so can hardly be responsible for concocting the scheme (maliciously or benignly). Also given their previous success in capital development throughout the island, they would also be the best position to take and handout and go it alone.
The pervailling view in the thread linked here is that the GAA and Sinn Féin jointly engineered the whole thing to have a get a shrine and also have a dig at "Protestant games". The case for that appears just a tad tenous in fairness.
/Jim.
I would say more are of the impression that SF is driving the GAA on this, rather than being joint partners.
While i have no doubt that SF is more than happy to use/manipulate sporting groups I think that the GAA are also capable fo making their own decisions.
From what the GAA representative has said Ive no doubt that SIB misinformation is stirring the pot here - interestingly the GAA hasnt ruled out belfast contrary to what whitehead (and jug ears) hae said. Id be interested if there are any belfast locations the GAA board would actually consider.
Snatter, I am not 'a guy' unless you meant that as a general 'you guys' term and wouldn't have any desire to be fairer or less fair to any sports, except game sprts and maybe fishing.
What;s with this 'second class citizens' stuff? That's very 1970s - OK, rugby is a more middle class sport but soccer is played by all sorts. Is GAA not cross-comunity then, is that what you mean? Why is that?
I know that gaelic games need bigger pitches, but a bigger stadium? How many stadia does the GAA need? Has the GAA actually promised to play any big games at any Maze stadium, in fact, ANY new stadium?
A new stadium isn't needed at all - health service in crisis, schools closing, water infrastructure poor with charges to come. A shiny stadium that will hardly ever be used, no thanks.
nifan< for your info Sinn Fein has no influence on GAA affairs< unlike Unionist Party members and unionist Paramilitary members who are on the Boards of various Irish League clubs
Also what do you make of the shrine to UVF terrorism to be preserved at the Maze and why does this not attract any ire on the OWC website?
Quote from: T Fearon on July 25, 2007, 03:05:15 PM
nifan< for your info Sinn Fein has no influence on GAA affairs< unlike Unionist Party members and unionist Paramilitary members who are on the Boards of various Irish League clubs
Also what do you make of the shrine to UVF terrorism to be preserved at the Maze and why does this not attract any ire on the OWC website?
I think the guys on OWC are against any shrine to terrorism to be fair, and personally I don't think that at a sports stadium there should be anything to do with the 'Troubles'. If there needs to any museums showcasing the pretty depressing past of Northern Ireland, have them somewhere else.
Tony, Ive no idea about loyalist paramilitaries on Irish League boards. You obviously do. can you assure me that no SF emmber or republican paramilitary has any position within the GAA.
SF obviously have influence within sporting groups and have brought this to bear before (I didnt specify the GAA for this - remember donegal celtic being due to play the RUC team a few years ago? or the hunger strike rally at casement)
Donegal Celtic were intimidated and the Casement Park rally proceeded against the express instructions of the GAA Headquarters. It is laughable to suggest that Sinn Fein or any political party influences official GAA policy in any way, shape, or form.
The stadium is only one part of an entire complex mooted for the MAZE, which as I understand also includes bars,restaurants,hotels etc. As I've said before the H Block museum contains both republican and loyalist wings and is to be sited no where near the actual stadium itself.
Quote from: GweylTah on July 25, 2007, 03:02:04 PM
I know that gaelic games need bigger pitches, but a bigger stadium? How many stadia does the GAA need? Has the GAA actually promised to play any big games at any Maze stadium, in fact, ANY new stadium?
The only use any new stadium would be to the GAA is if it is big enough to hold a large Ulster final crowd that wouldn't fit Clones. This is not an everyday occasion but it has happened in the recent past.
I don't think the GAA participation is driven by a huge immediate need, it is more a case of not looking a gift horse in the mouth. If they get a stadium on the cheap, they won't feel too bad about under utilisation. It's a fair position to take in the current negotiations.
Also if the GAA did take the money for development of their own and then used to develop Clones (the traditional home of Ulster football finals) they would be outcry about money going to a foreign (sic) country.
/Jim.
Quote from: T Fearon on July 25, 2007, 03:29:08 PM
Donegal Celtic were intimidated and the Casement Park rally proceeded against the express instructions of the GAA Headquarters. It is laughable to suggest that Sinn Fein or any political party influences official GAA policy in any way, shape, or form.
The stadium is only one part of an entire complex mooted for the MAZE, which as I understand also includes bars,restaurants,hotels etc. As I've said before the H Block museum contains both republican and loyalist wings and is to be sited no where near the actual stadium itself.
I think the conflict centre and the stadium are about half a mile apart, which means they aren't beside each other, but not exactly far away either. My personal preference is just that the place should be flattened and something not politics related should be put in its place.
On a side note, if the GAA HQ issues instructions for a rally at a ground not to go ahead, why did it go ahead? Who forced it through, and was it legal to do this?
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on July 25, 2007, 03:36:17 PM
Also if the GAA did take the money for development of their own and then used to develop Clones (the traditional home of Ulster football finals) they would be outcry about money going to a foreign (sic) country.
/Jim.
Interesting thought Jim, it would on one hand be quite funny to listen to the outcry, but on the other hand quite a useful payoff for providing a rugger/sawkar stadium in Belfast...
The Antrim Board ostensibly ignored GAA instructions, but I am sure you can imagine the enormous pressure they were under from the local community. Would there have been a Casement Park left standing if they had obeyed instructions? Liam Mulvihill, last Sunday night on RTE, reflecting on his time in office, cited the Hunger Strike period as his most challenging time due to the pressure he came under.
In any event rival unionist paramilitaries have shoot outs and punch ups in various Irish league social clubs and even during the course of team's celebrating Irish Cup Final wins, without sanction from the IFA, so please,spare me the hypocricy of OWCers complaining about issues like this
Quoteso please,spare me the hypocricy of OWCers complaining about issues like this
Tony, you have often used the term removing the mote from ones eye, and i guess your attitude could sum that up, since you feel the need to ponticate at every real and imaginary problem with others,
However you seem to be missing my point, which was that although SF does use its influence ion sporting organisations, which you have as good as admitted (the antrim board for example seemed influenced in your statement) I dont feel it is correct to say they are necessarily in cahoots. I do feel that SF have put pressure on by wedding the whole thing to the conflict centre - they said there would be no stadium withought it.
Quote from: T Fearon on July 25, 2007, 03:53:48 PM
The Antrim Board ostensibly ignored GAA instructions, but I am sure you can imagine the enormous pressure they were under from the local community. Would there have been a Casement Park left standing if they had obeyed instructions? Liam Mulvihill, last Sunday night on RTE, reflecting on his time in office, cited the Hunger Strike period as his most challenging time due to the pressure he came under.
In any event rival unionist paramilitaries have shoot outs and punch ups in various Irish league social clubs and even during the course of team's celebrating Irish Cup Final wins, without sanction from the IFA, so please,spare me the hypocricy of OWCers complaining about issues like this
I'm not sure about the comparison between a rally at a GAA ground and supposed shoot outs and punch ups in social clubs. There was obviously a lot of pressure but to do nothing then undermines whatever power they do hold. However, that's getting away from the thread in general. I think the gist is that no 'side' is whiter than white.
I don't pretend to know the ins and outs of this debate but am confident that the GAA at the highest level takes no cognisance of what Sinn Fein or any other political party wants.
If OWC and unionists are so intractably opposed to the so called terrorist shrine then why
1.Do they take part in Orange parades behind banners glorifying terrorism?
2. Allow members of terrorist organisations to head up the Shankhill NISC (has thsi club been ejected from the amalgamation for this? No I didn't think so)
3.Have one minute's silence at the Oval when paramilitarists die?
Quote from: nifan on July 25, 2007, 04:07:41 PM
Quoteso please,spare me the hypocricy of OWCers complaining about issues like this
Tony, you have often used the term removing the mote from ones eye, and i guess your attitude could . I do feel that SF have put pressure on by wedding the whole thing to the conflict centre - they said there would be no stadium withought it.
Sinn Féin are a major part of Government in the 6 north Eastern Counties so I presume they can influence an awful lot of things these days ;)
Quote from: T Fearon on July 25, 2007, 04:14:47 PM
I don't pretend to know the ins and outs of this debate but am confident that the GAA at the highest level takes no cognisance of what Sinn Fein or any other political party wants.
If OWC and unionists are so intractably opposed to the so called terrorist shrine then why
1.Do they take part in Orange parades behind banners glorifying terrorism?
2. Allow members of terrorist organisations to head up the Shankhill NISC (has thsi club been ejected from the amalgamation for this? No I didn't think so)
3.Have one minute's silence at the Oval when paramilitarists die?
It's not a tit for tat scenario. I remember there were a lot of raised eyebrows at that minute's silence at the Oval on both sides, don't think it met with approval in many places. I don't think all 'OWC and Unionists' take part in Orange parades glorifying terrorism either. It's entirely possible that a great section of this community don't like sectarianism of any kind but do not like the idea of a conflict centre beside the new sports stadium, and they are not being hypocritical. I'm not sure all nationalists necessarily believe that the conflict centre is a corking idea either.
Tony, your post talks about "OWC and unionists".
I am unsure of exactly who you are talking about??
Quote from: Yer Ma on July 25, 2007, 03:44:18 PM
On a side note, if the GAA HQ issues instructions for a rally at a ground not to go ahead, why did it go ahead? Who forced it through, and was it legal to do this?
Yer Ma,
The Central Council indicated that it was in contravention of the rules. At the time there was allegations (denied all round) of intimidation and all kinds of shenanigans.
The punishment would be to ban the whole Antrim County Board (and all it's clubs to all levels) for 48months for violating Rule 42. There is no way anyone would countenance doing that. To be honest if the GAA should reduce the penalty to something more practical and enforceable if they want to make the punishment stick.
/Jim.