Where do we start?,What are we to do? and how are we going to do it? Suggestions,possible solutions and likely scenarios for the future for both Football and Hurling in Down.
Employ two top flight coaches,in tune with the pace, strategies and levels of fitness required in the modern game, to work with not only our Co.team,but also the Managers and Coaches of our club teams. This should create a trickle down effect,produce a pool of trained,aware,highly motivated people who can form the nucleus of a centre of excellence. We desperately need fresh thinking and impetus, which i have reluctantly come to accept will necessitate us going outside the county. If we continue to march in hope with Ross and DJ. and a pool of poorly motivated players, we are headed for Div4 and oblivion. As for the hurling, if it not taking up by the primary schools,forget it.
I think this debate's a good idea to stimulate discussion-but if we're going to make progress we need to take the personalities out of it.
If this debate is going down the road of subjective opinions on individuals,it will serve no purpose.
No offence intended, but Ross Carr never came across as overly convincing when interviewed by the press. Always seemed very timid and meek - lacking in any passion and emotion. He has actually reminded me of Stan Staunton in that i wouldn't be convinced in his ability to give his players a good rolicking when required.
I know the manager can only work with what he's got - but he also has to be able to inject a bit of passion and enthusiasm into his players. Whenever i see him being interviewed by BBC/RTE, i'm not convinced there's any passion/belief/enthusiasm.
Wholeheartedly agree that this discussion should not be allowed to slide into a debate about personalities. Lets just accept that everyone has been doing their best, but somewhere along the way we lost our way,and now need to stop and take stock, asses calmly our strengths and weaknesses, devise and implement a rational plan to raise standards within the county, with built in objectives ,targets and methodologies that can be evaluated at regular intervals to judge how they are working. Lets inject some optimism, we are probably at our lowest level now, the only way is up
I see where you are coming from Wobbler, but i believe our problems are more fundamental, our organisational structures need to be overhauled and modernised before we can begin to address the problems. Your point re.coaches is very relevant. We could have the best players in the Country, but if they continued to play in the system and style which has become the norm in Down Co.and club football, they would not progress. The answer is not to critisize or ditch individual coaches, most of whom are hard-working and dedicated, but to stimulate them with fresh thinking and new ideas. They too as individuals must be bored and frustrated by the monotonous, sterile, unadventerous, skill-less game that is now the norm in our club football. There is no room for talent to flourish.Why have we lost the basic skills and flair. Take a walk down to your club and watch the coaching of your underage teams, it will make you weep. Natural talent crushed, and negative habits instilled that they carry on into senior teams. If Colm Cooper came from Down,he would never have learned to kick a ball
Quote from: Pangurban on July 15, 2007, 12:39:05 AM
I see where you are coming from Wobbler, but i believe our problems are more fundamental, our organisational structures need to be overhauled and modernised before we can begin to address the problems. Your point re.coaches is very relevant. We could have the best players in the Country, but if they continued to play in the system and style which has become the norm in Down Co.and club football, they would not progress. The answer is not to critisize or ditch individual coaches, most of whom are hard-working and dedicated, but to stimulate them with fresh thinking and new ideas. They too as individuals must be bored and frustrated by the monotonous, sterile, unadventerous, skill-less game that is now the norm in our club football. There is no room for talent to flourish.Why have we lost the basic skills and flair. Take a walk down to your club and watch the coaching of your underage teams, it will make you weep. Natural talent crushed, and negative habits instilled that they carry on into senior teams. If Colm Cooper came from Down,he would never have learned to kick a ball
Pangurban
I am a bit worried about the bit I have highlighted, natural talent should be nurtured and developed at all ages, weather it be attacking flair or defensive qualities. As a coach myself at underage level I have never tried to crush natural talent, it is a rare commodity and should be helped to flourish
stop living on past histories!
maybe there just shit ???
Lads I know nothing of the inner workings of Down football, but from the outside things don't seem as bad as ye're making out. Ye were narrowly beaten by Meath, Monaghan and Silgo in the past two championships. All 3 counties are fairly decent and have accounted for Galway, Derry(who beat Mayo & Armagh), Kildare and Meath drew with Dublin. Thats not the worst formline in the world. In addition ye recently won a minor All-Ireland and produced Martin Clarke, so ye're underage coaching can't be as bad as some of ye are making out. Most counties go through periods when they just don't have talented enough squads to compete with the best and unlike years gone by the are no easy games anymore so limited teams tend to get found out more quickly these days.
QuoteWho has a job description for Sean o Mc Ateer?
Why do you require this?
Sean Og is one of the many Gaels who give their all for the GAA without any thought of recompense whatsoever. In fact his contribution to the Association has been of immense proporations and he would be deeply offended if he was even offered legitimate expenses.
He is the one man who can make Down great again.
As long as the county board fail to provide the required facilities to compete at the highest level at all ages we will struggle to compete,take a look at the facilities that Monaghan have which has been rewarded with an Ulster final appearance today.Another point is that the idea of starred games should be scrapped & let our players get as much competitive football with their clubs as possible to try & build the confidence of players & develop skill levels,rather than deprive them of football & expect them to go out & perform miracles on big match days.
It is just possible that given the proper authority and structures to do the job, Sean Og could be our Man. A suitable precedent for what would be required in the post can be found in role exercised by Maurice Hayes back in the Sixties. He provided the vision and plan and along with the Co.team management devised the strategy for success.This involved co-ordinating and faciltating to meet all the needs of the team and management from kit provision , training grounds, challenge matches, treatment, equipment etc. But the most important criteria was his ability to liase forcefully with the Co.Board and ensure that whatever was needed was provided, from whatever source
Down just don't have enough good players to compliment the ones they do have or support them when the good players are having an off day. It's as simple as that - nothing to do with Paddy O'Rourke or DJ or Ross ! But Down's time will come again. No doubt.
Downs time won't come again just because it has in the past.
Things have moved on and Down are 10-years behind the Tyrone's etc.
We don't have the top quality coaches, facilities are crap for development squads etc. What we do have is a lot of very dedicated people all doing their own thing, some well, some badly.
We need direction, money and a will from the top to change things - otherwise we'll be a Div 4 team the year after next.
Someone needs to have the leadship and the status to be allowed make changes. Take a look at how other counties do it and radically change the whole structure.
Someone like Eugene Young would be ideal - but that type of person would cost (not just money) and maybe the will isn't there.
Totallly agree, Lecale. We are light years behind in the coaching structures present in other counties. 3 men to cover all the primary schools in Down - what a joke. One coaching session every week, or even two weeks, just isnt good enough. Individuals within clubs are doing their best but they need more support. I see the South Down U.14 squad have pulled together a number of good coaches from clubs to work with the squad every Saturday for the rest of the Summer - good to see something being done but this is only a short term measure. We do need someone with vision to look at Long Term Player Development of our players for the future. Sean Og is not the man for this and our county coaching officer needs to address this problem.
In terms of a Centre of Excellence, we deserve better. We won 2 All Irelands in the 90's and have nothing to show for it. Derry won in 1993 and had the vision and business know how to obtain the Owenbeg complex. All Down teams rely on the goodwill of clubs to give them their fields for training and is it acceptable for our development squads to be training on council pitches? While Newry does look great I would rather have seen the money used for the development of Gaelic games within Down or the buying of land to develop a Centre of Excellence. Our County Board our stuck in the dark ages - they have no vision for the future and we are paying for it and will continue to do so until something is done.
down won 2 all ireland minor football titles in the last ten years. where hads all this talent gone? (with the exception of martin clarke)
Quote from: qub la la la on July 26, 2007, 02:51:48 PM
down won 2 all ireland minor football titles in the last ten years. where hads all this talent gone? (with the exception of martin clarke)
Have you not noticed that a lot of them play Senior intercounty football in the championship a couple of times a year.
Quote from: 5 Sams on July 26, 2007, 02:56:29 PM
Quote from: qub la la la on July 26, 2007, 02:51:48 PM
down won 2 all ireland minor football titles in the last ten years. where hads all this talent gone? (with the exception of martin clarke)
Have you not noticed that a lot of them play Senior intercounty football in the championship a couple of times a year.
yea, but badly! not to the standards that won them an all-ireland medal
QuoteThere is a huge difference in minor and senior football. Senior football is a much more negative, tactical game. Our current senior squad still play the game like minors, they are quite naiive.
Thats a fair point, 5ivetimes. So presumably the management of the current, and previous, Down Senior team are even more naive because they are the people directing the team to play this way?
The county board is taking a lot of unneeded flak here. If you honestly think county boards make the difference between winning and losing matches, then you are living on the wrong planet.
Here's something for you to ponder. Mayobridge have done nothing in Ulster for the past 2 seasons, yet in that time they have only faced one semblance of a match in the Down Championship (Kilcoo sem-final last year). In other words, the Down club scene is a mess. Our best club teams wouldn't last a month in Derry or Tyrone.
Personally, I don't see how the county board can be blamed for the clubs not producing and not nurturing talent.
You can sack the boards, sack the managers, sack Sean Og and Benny if you want, but it's not going to change things.
5ivetimes, you are blowing things out of proportion. Spreading Chinese whispers. More than anything, you must have no grasp of finances in Down football. Here's a quick refresher - there are none.
- You reckon teams have nowhere to train. I reckon the footballers have it as good as you'll get under their current arrangement with St Colman's College. Listen to the next bit very carefully. Tyrone and Armagh have won the last 8 Ulster titles and between them have no training facilities. Tyrone fully rely on the use of club grounds, and Armagh have been known to use Armagh rugby club, unable as they were to secure floodlit GAA accommodation in their own county.
- You'll find that when teams have no kit, it's normally because managers did not make a request for kit, or did not make the request in time. Managers are getting as bad as players these days, seemingly unable to organise tasks like getting the kit. Get over your hatred of the county board and you might realise that they aren't mindreaders, they can't guess when and what managers want, and neither should the board (as a unit) be at the beck and call of every manager across the spectrum. Communication is a two-way street.
- I can remember you stating embarrassment at the sight of the Down subs in multiple tracksuits at a league game earlier this year. This was when the Down squad numbered 50+, including a number of players who were never going to make the final cut. At £40 a pop for a tracksuit, the county board could have wasted £1k+ kitting out that surplus bunch to suit Ross's ever changing whim. Now, that would have been a bad decision.
- Regarding Cross, do you honestly believe that folks from that part of the world really have any more or any less to do with their lives than the folks of Clonduff, Kilcoo, Longstone, Loughinisland or Ballyholland? The way you're talking, you'd think it was cut off from the world and had no electricity or running water. This is the 21st century chap, and Cross isn't some shanty town in midwest USA. They've even got Sky TV these days, I hear.
Now, I don't know a damn about what goes on in hurling, so I'll not spend much time in it. But, from my time attending county board meetings (and you shouldn't knock until you try), it seems that there are only a few hundred people in this county genuinely interested in hurling, and it also seems that half of those don't like the other half, and vice versa. Personally, I don't see why our county board should plough money they don't have, into a sport that generates so little interest and warmth in our county - and certainly not while the hurling aficionados are unwilling to sort their own shop out. It would be throwing good money after bad.
As for football - some bad decisions have been made over the past few decades. Derrylecka should have been bought. Newcastle should already be a Tescos. An external manager, a proper tactican, for the senior team should have been brought in by this stage. The CAM post should have more about secretarial and admin duties, rather than toploaded with fundraising work.
But by and large, Gaelic Football in our county is well run. Our leagues run on time and with little fuss. We rarely, if ever, court the controversy of other counties when it comes to suspensions, debt, underhand shenanigans. One of the main reasons behind that is our County Board generally acts with prudence and looks beyong its own two square feet.
One last thing. Two years ago, folk all over the county wanted to hang the board out to dry over Pairc Esler and Club Down. The three games this summer proved that it was the correct decision.
Lads this discussion to be geared towards finding solutions, not scapegoats. Most of the causes and symptoms of our malaise have been clearly identifiedon this thread. We may not agree with every point made but there sufficient there for discussion within a properly tasked and empowered forum. The issue now is to get the Co.Board to establish this forum and commit to implement its recommendations. If this cannot be achieved then all this talk is only hot air that will blow us further into a morass
Here's a few things you should know about Cross:
1. They have Sky TV.
2. They even have XBoxes.
3. They have wimmen to chase.
4. They have pubs. Lots of them.
5. They have soccer.
6. The ones who go to school in Newry (half of them), have friends and influences from outside Cross.
7. They have the internet, broadband even.
8. Blayney and its bars and nightclubs is less than 10 miles away
9. Dundalk and its cinema, bars and nightclubs is 10 miles away.
10. Carrick and its bars and clubs is less than 15 miles away.
11. Newry and its cinema, bars and clubs is 15 miles away.
12. They have WKD, Fatfrogs and Magners for sale on their doorstep.
13. Some of their shops are known to even sell cigarettes.
14. You might just get a distinct whiff of marijuana in certain parts.
16. Something a little stronger? Step this way please.
17. Joyriding is the regional sport of choice.
18. Their parents are all awash with money, meaning they can afford all of the above, and get dropped off where they want to go in a shiny new Merc to boot.
In other words, the kids and teenagers you see kicking a ball around in Oliver Plunkett Park in Cross have no more or no fewer things to do with their lives, than those doing likewise in Hennessy Park, Newry.
And, in both cases, the vast majority won't play Gaelic Football past the age of 21 as their club team can only field 3 adult teams.
The difference is that in Crossmaglen, the players are getting coached better. And when you put talented athletes in a position to get the best out of their athletic abilities, they tend to respond better.
Also 5ivetimes, most of the county board are seasoned administrators. If the opportunity really was available to sign a kit deal that took the pressure off them, I'd say they would have jumped at it. This isnt the Premiership. But then again, I'm just speculating.
feck the county board lads! don't leave anything up to them
you get your club properly organised and run then good things invariably will happen at all levels in the club - both on and off the field
other clubs might sit up a take notice that you are doing so well and decide to implement change themselves. these progressive people will eventually make their way up to county board level.
start change from the bottom up, not the other way around.
clubs are the bedrock of the county team and county board. badly run clubs = poor standards
spot on neilthemac
I agree with a lot of what you said wobbler but we'll never agree on your attitude to hurling. I'll focus on what we agree about rather than potential disagreements. The only way forward is to start with improving coaching at youth level.
For years we in the Ards could rely on every kid in the district taking up a hurl and training hard to try to make the senior teams. Unfortuantly that's not the case any more and hurling in the Ards is going backwards. All the distractions you mention are available on the Ards as well.
Earlier this year the 3 Ards clubs took the initative to try and sort things out. We got support from Bredagh, Newry & Ballela and had a few rows with the county board. We invited Frankie Quinn from the Ulster council to help and on the development squad side things are better than they were but still not nearly good enough. Hopefully they have learned from some of the mistakes this year and it will be better run next year. It is a step in the right direction.
My own club has run coaching days with top coaches from the south. But we're all in the business of improving Down hurling so we invited coaches from all the other clubs to attend. Co-operating over coaching is essential. We all have to work together and put our rivalries aside for the good of the GAA.
It is a known fact around Bryansford that things are moving in relation to the sale of St Patricks Park, the deal is being pushed by a local developer who is keen to purchase the site, has through a third party bought 15 acres between Newcastle and Castlewellan rumoured to be the county training centre and Bryansford top brass have been seen 'walking lands' in the area of late. As yet the members of Bryansford have been kept in the dark as to the intentions.
The developer in question I cannot name but last year tried to buy Liverpool FC.
spirit - What do the Bryanford club members feel about the possibility of their ground being sold?
Aidan, kept in the dark as per usual.
They held one meeting 15 months ago with the intention of updating members regularly but it never happened, not even a mention on their website.
But dont get me wrong alot of people are totally against the sale and will fight it to the death.
I have two minds on this, yes a move a be debt free for life but risk ruining a club which lets face it the majority of players live in Newcastle and would parents wish to travel out of town for the weekly babysitting service! Newcastle is full of other sports clubs - soccer, judo, karate, boxing, hockey etc etc that are all in the town and this would be alot easier to commute to especially if parents dont have transport.....
The main argument against the sale of Newcastle iseems to be concern over there being no playing fields within the confines of Newcastle-a very fair point.Especially since soccer is well catered for within the town boundary.
Presumably,Bryansford club will have to be provided with a quality pitch for underage training/matches within the town.
The pitch behind st pats park could be developed-if this is suitable or available,but more importantly the council owned pitches at Donard park should have a dedicated Gaelic pitch,and regular access to the floodlit astroturf.
The Bredagh situation highlights that GAA clubs will find it impossible to afford their own facilities in urban areas-therefore local council authorities MUST provide more of their urban playing fields for the GAA.
If the understandable concern over urban playing fields by the Bryansford club is the main barrier to the county getting proper training facilities-then surely this should be the main focus of discussion.Some may say that this issue is purely for the Bryansford club,but surely it affects us all as we don't want to lose another urban area.Newcastle up to know has been the only major urban area in Down to have a continual presence in Division 1,and significant underage success.It is imperative that Bryansford club are well looked after in any new deal.
Quote from: 5iveTimes on July 27, 2007, 12:39:38 PM
The wobller although you make some good points, I think you are missing my point. I used Cross as an example, as I feel they tipify all that is good in the modern GAA. Despite all the distractions of modern life, young people still aspire to play for Cross, because they are the best in the business. Locals reckon the sight of the Cross jersey is enough to beat most teams. We in Down could learn a lot from them and should have teams beat before they enter the field of play. Sadly we are a long way off.
You've hit the nail on the head 5ive times-young people aspire to play for Cross because they are the BEST.
Wobbler highlights that most clubs have the same opposing distractions-so if any local GAA club is going to succeed ,it has to aspire to be the BEST sporting club in that locality.
Though Cross had always a proud tradition within Armagh,their recent success commenced on the back of a fairly barren spell for them.
The reason why Cross have dominated is that during that barren spell they committed alot of resources to quality organisation and coaching at underage level.They established a production line of talent which is the reason why they remain at the top table.
They work to a template that should be the gold standard for every club--what do you think the chances are of a Down man getting that template off Cross???
6th, the pitch behind St Pat's park is already passed for a new school with the St Mary's boys and girls amalgalmating onto one site with a bigger school to cater for them being built there. The parish own this land at present but have no imput to local Gaa as there is no money in it for them! The current girls school in Tullybrannigan has been ear marked by the vultures already for housing units with many rumours around that the deal is done and dusted with our PP. Any land inside Newcastle 30mph limits is going at 1.5m an acre so the town sites are out.
Although a old man told me that there is a covenant that was signed years ago stating that St Pat's Pk can only be used by locals for Gaelic Games - this apparently was thrashed out by the Annesley Family when the land was bought all those years ago - if this is the case alot of people will have egg on their faces!!!
I would love to see state of the art facilities in Down as much as anyone, but the fact is that good facilities dont make a good county team.
They may of course help the development of younger players coming up through the ranks, but that will be a long way off.
The point made earlier that niether Newry or Downpatrick have no teams in Down's top division speak volumes. Promoting GAA in these two towns is key, simply because of the large catchment areas involved the huge potentilal to unearth new talent.
QuoteTyrone and Armagh have won the last 8 Ulster titles and between them have no training facilities. Tyrone fully rely on the use of club grounds
Tyrone don't fully rely on club grounds. They frquently use the Youth Sport Omagh complex and the Mid Ulster Sports Complex in Cookstown. They have recently bought a site in Garvaghy (halfway between Omagh and Dungannon) to build a major GAA Training complex.
Never thought I'd see the day when Wobbler would be extolling the virtues of the county board.
Was it 40 pieces of silver or what? Sell out! Bar him from the club 5 Sams!
Quote from: spiritof91and94 on July 27, 2007, 02:57:20 PM
6th, the pitch behind St Pat's park is already passed for a new school with the St Mary's boys and girls amalgalmating onto one site with a bigger school to cater for them being built there. The parish own this land at present but have no imput to local Gaa as there is no money in it for them! The current girls school in Tullybrannigan has been ear marked by the vultures already for housing units with many rumours around that the deal is done and dusted with our PP. Any land inside Newcastle 30mph limits is going at 1.5m an acre so the town sites are out.
Although a old man told me that there is a covenant that was signed years ago stating that St Pat's Pk can only be used by locals for Gaelic Games - this apparently was thrashed out by the Annesley Family when the land was bought all those years ago - if this is the case alot of people will have egg on their faces!!!
That's unfortunate re lack of availability of land in the town-so it brings back the question of council facilities made available to the GAA.
Regardless of the future of st pats park,Bryansford have a need for further ground anyway.The current state of the surface of st pats park is horrendous--presumably due to overuse.With the recent development of ladies football and inceased training and competitions across all teams, almost every club in the county now requires a 2nd pitch.
How many Bryansford gaels would welcome the sale of st pat's park if they had access to a greenfield site with 4-5 pitches, some floodlit for training and matches,a sportshall,gym close to the town?In addition a dedicated GAA pitch at Donard park for underage matches/training,and protected use of the floodlit astroturf.With the inevitable loss of the existing school pitch,likely to result in further overuse of st pats park,an urgent solution is required.It seems that regardless of the county's needs-Bryansford have a headache!
If Byransford move closer to Castlewellan, i forsee conflict and poaching raids to equal the The Brown Bull of Cooley
No.1 - this wobbler cannot be bought!
Seriously though,my original point stands. The county board shouldn't be blamed for our performances on the pitch. For that, we should look at the players and management.
We arent as bad as we thought.
Both teams who beat us in last 8.
I've already said - Down just don't have ENOUGH good players - they do have some good players and they're surrounded by average enough players in significant positions. No disresepct intended.
Old bitterness dies hard 5 Sams!
looks like an announcement is imminent lads - Bryansford have called a Extraordinary AGM for 16th August.
Quote from: spiritof91and94 on July 30, 2007, 10:01:58 PM
looks like an announcement is imminent lads - Bryansford have called a Extraordinary AGM for 16th August.
If Bryansford agree to sell - i assume next up will be to get County Board to agree to sell - the 16th August also happens to be the night of the next county board meeting?
Any sale has to be approved by Croke Park as well, but that shouldn't be a problem if Bryansford and County Board agree.
I'd like to see a route/branch analysis of the structures in Down with the juvenile structures/competitions looked at first. This should include the interworking of the fulltime coaches, schools and clubs all dovetailing into a well defined package providing youngsters with regular coaching and games throughtout the school year and summer months. This is where the soccer setup is much better and we need to start getting to grips with it especially in areas like Newcastle, Newry and Downpatrick before we loose even more ground.
Then we need to do something similar with the adult structures for both codes.
I agree with JohnnyCool don't think people realise just how bad things are for the GAA in towns such as Newry and yet it seems that the County Board have their eyes closed to what is happening. Biggest urban centre in the county, almost totally "nationalist" and hence should be regarded as fertile ground for the GAA and yet not one team in Division 1 in the football and one hurling team that would fold but for the efforts of one or two individuals.
Don't know what football coaching is happening in the schools but about the only hurling coaching is being driven by the Newry Hurling club with guys taking days off work to go into schools on a Friday and provide coaching. Granted that appraoch seems to be working as there are now about 30 U12/10s hurling on a Saturday morning in Newry now compared to about a dozen 18 months ago.
I think that we shoudl look at twinning some of the non-ards clubs with ards clubs as a first step to try and share the expertise within the Ards clubs certainly for hurling, we should then have a dedicated hurling coach for the Newry/Warrenpoint and Banbridge area along with one for Bredagh/Carryduff and the Ards - this is where the real populations and hence potential for the game lies along with the fact that we need to ensure that hurling remains the no1 sport in the Ards. IMO we are too lax about Ards hurling, people beleive it will always be strong and that we only need to focus on the non Ards and everything will be okay, rubbish - the Ards are the strong point of hurling in the county and need to be made stronger while at the same time improving standards in the rest of the county. We need a root and branch review of hurling in the county, we have 11 clubs playing hurling but if this increased to 18 would hurling be any stronger at adult level or would seperate juvenile teams but amalgamted senior teams to create 6/7 senior hurling clubs be better for the game. Remember that in Cork for years the 3 city clubs dominated then the divisional sides started to win county championship and eventutally after 10-15 years these divisional sides started to produce senior club sides in their own right but it took time. If it works in Cork and counties like that why not try it in Down, three senior clubs will never get us anywhere and with all the best will in the world no current non-ards club on their own is near senior level and won't be for the next 10 years at least. :(
Crossey is Five Times but where is the output? This has been discussed by hurling people in the county before, we have full time staff but no-one seems to know who or what they are answerable for and what objectives if any they have been set. In fairness to Paddy Branniff he is doing his best but at that man's age there should be others stepping up to the plate. the recent debacle with the U16 elite hurling camp said it all, the kids from the Ards didn't even know they had been selected until the Thursday night before they were due to go on a three day residential!
I'll pose a simple question is non Ards hurling stronger than it was 15-20 years ago?
Kilkeel - where Intermediate champions and one of the strongest non Ards teams (Folded)
Ballyvarley - no where near as strong as they were
Newry - Improved slightly possibly, certainly from 5-10 years ago but still a long way to go.
Warrenpoint - have improved at juvenile but no sign of breakthrough at senior yet
Ballea - great facilities but struggling to field
Kilclief - hurling is dying there if their performances this year are anything to go by
Downpatrick - Folded
Darragh Cross - Folded
Clonduff - making a comeback but far stronger 10 years ago and still only Junior
Liatriom - 10 years ago were playing senior league and actually beat Portaferry I think in a senior league game. Some good young hurlers but at par with where they were at best and still relying on Jerome, Brian and John as mainstays of the team.
Castlewellan - gone backwards at senior level without a doubt.
Bredagh - the one success story of hurling in the county but the driving force in this club have been North Antrim and Ards men who have moved to the area rather than any actions taken by the county board.
None of the teams above will make "senior" in the next ten years at least but they all have good hurlers just not enough of them and these guys don't get the chance to develop as they play in Junior and 2nds leagues, some drastic action needs to be taken to revive hurling and that includes thinking outside the box and looking at the possibility of joining teams at senior level to try and raise the overall standard of matches in the county. We have full time staff but my question again is what are the outputs and where is the improvement where it is needed most.
Did I read somewhere that Tyrone have twinned with Waterford, with hurling coaches going up to Tyrone and football coaches going the other way?
Maybe Down should be twinning with Kilkenny!!
Tyrone have indeed teamed up with Waterford for the hurling coaching and vice versa - it's a brilliant idea
JohnnyCool, there was talk about Down twinning with Kilkenny from a hurling development point of view and in fairness to Kilkenny they sent a couple of coaches up last year to take a session and it was great and should have been built upon. I have a copy of a coaching manual the Kilkenny hurling development committee put together and sent to all clubs in Kilkenny when you see the content and the thought that went into it you would not be surprised by Kilkenny's recent underage success. Kilkenny county board actually offered Down places at the DJ Carey school of hurling and are keen to work on the links and help and instead of "taking their hand off" at the offer the Down board is stalling on the issue.
Some of the clubs are doing their own thing as well trying to build links with clubs down south, it seems that Ballycran have an arrangement with Carrickshock assuming that is via Dutch while Newry have had the advantage of building links with Cloyne via Donal Og and Diarmuid who are due up before the end of the year again.
The meetings the clubs had themselves last year with Frankie Quinn need to be orgainsed again, more progress made then than in 15 yrs of the hurling board!
Quote from: wobbller on July 31, 2007, 05:51:55 PM
The sale of Newcastle will get us money but who'll hold the purse strings now that Hugh Harper is stepping down?This position should in future be answerable to a wide membered finance committee voted in by nominations from throughout the County not from County Board delegates who generally are happy enough to go every 3-4 weeks to talk shop.The Finance Committee should be answerable to the Executive of the County Board but be voted in by the Clubs.
The revenue created by the sale of newcastle
IF it happens will need to be tighly monitored and spent wisely, something our county board are not good at as we've seen in the past. I'd agree with the setting up of two committee's, a developement committee with members from all over the county, south down, east down, the ards and Belfast and north down. That way you'll get a better feel for the needs of the whole county rather than the perceived south down bias that has been in existence for a few years. This committee should set out a wish list of what is required both in terms of immediate infrastructure, i.e training facilities etc, etc, as well as looking at the juvenile and senior set ups we currently have.
The finance committee should ideally have people on board who are trustworthy and probably from a business or finance background and most importantly transparent in their dealings, something the GAA world isn't comfortable with. We got to move on from handing out one or two A4 pages of a financial statement at the county convention and then taking it back off the delegates.
I'm not trying to champion the County Board, but I do believe this argument needs a little balance.
All the ideas above are great in theory. But, when it comes down to it, there aren't that many qualified, experienced financial practicioners around who have the inclination or interest to give their time freely to Down football and hurling. Certainly not enough to form a committee, let alone an effective committee.
You can gather any opinion you like on Hugh John Harper, Tony Burden and co., but trust me when I say they would welcome with open arms any trustworthy, professional support they could get when it comes to finances.
Second point - the finance committee may be selected by the Board, but is effectively voted in by the clubs.The clubs vote in board members, and if any of those board members have an expressed interest in financial matters, it really won't take long for them to be noticed and called on board. But, as with my initial point, there aren't a lot of qualified, or even interested, parties putting themselves forward.
Quote from: thewobbler on August 01, 2007, 10:14:32 AM
Second point - the finance committee may be selected by the Board, but is effectively voted in by the clubs.The clubs vote in board members, and if any of those board members have an expressed interest in financial matters, it really won't take long for them to be noticed and called on board. But, as with my initial point, there aren't a lot of qualified, or even interested, parties putting themselves forward.
You've got to ask yourself why more genuine people don't get involved and I believe a large part of that is that they wouldn't get involved because of the way the county board do business. The finances need to above board and transparent at all times and this isn't the case at present or if it is why the secrecy? The county board obviously employ an accountancy firm (or do they???) to look after their books, so why not publish their reports at the convention rather than the shambolic crap that they do.
We as a county need to be more professional in the way we are organised and do business, so its a bit chicken and egg at the start. If the current board show a willingness to change the way they do things more people will be inclined to get involved but we need that kick start from somewhere and maybe if it isn't the county board itself the clubs need to shake it up a bit.
Then you have the other side of the debate, do the clubs actually give a crap how the county teams perform providing they win their own league/championship or whatever?
Clubs in the past have been asked to forward names for the various sub committees within Down (which number over 20) and very few clubs, if any forwarded names.
We do not need new committees, we already have a development committee, we already have a finance committee, we already have a coaching and games committee, etc
what we need is new people on these committees. It is easy to criticise the people sitting on these committees at present, but if we know people that would improve the workings of the committees put the name forward to either your club secretary or inform the county secretary, and get them in
wobbller - if you sacked the county board and started again, you'd have no county board. Nobody wants to do it. I bet you cannot name one person (including yourself) who has ever told you they wanted to join the county board - let alone one of the qualified, intelligent, experienced type you so desire.
And the funny thing is, this isn't sport, it's administration. You can get involved at the drop of a hat with no qualifications, no expertise and no experience and no noticeable skills. So go on, get involved. If you're willing to share the workload, you'll be welcome. So why don't you put yourself forward?
While reading these comments about the lack of financial transparency from the the co board, pots and kettles spring to mind. Al these delegates come from Clubs where there is a clear lack of financial transparency in one specific area ie are their team managers being paid or receiving allowances over or above what is permitted. I have never seen a treasurers report which listed such a payment, yet there is a widely held perception that such payments are being made. Such a perception may be wrong, just as the perception about lack of transparency in co.boards finances may be wrong. In both cases evidence is required before charges can be made,and this is at the moment sadly lacking. Would you accept a position on a finance committee, which could lead to you being unfairly maligned. No wonder there is a lack of volunteers
According to today's Irish Times, the monthly meeting of the Down County Committee has reappointed Ross Carr as Down football manager "for a second term". Presumably this means a year.
Ok we have had Club Down and we have a fine stadium. How about a similar fundraiser to help fund the county teams. Say 1000 people to give £100, £200, £500, £1000 or whatever way they want to contribute. I know they do something like this in Westmeath.
[/quote]
Whern Club Down was started I heard more grumbles from club officers in the county than enough but they stuck tot heir task of finsihing Park Esler and they never approached the clubs for one penny to do it. I havent seen any clubs recognising this but no doubt they got their taickets and comfy seats for the recent games in Newry.
The county board would have been lost without them and what do they do? They set up another fund-raisng group ( for the team) and go off on solo runs with other attempts at raising money. I work for a Club Down sponsor and he was approached by four separate people this year looking for more money for the county for dufferent projects. When he related this to Club Down the committee member he was talking to didn'teven knoiw about the other schemes as they hadnt nbeen told. Pathetic - we have a group who have delivered on their word when all previous attempts failed and the county board and clubs dont even want them. This is Down GAA at its best.
Times will change - you just have to wait for it. What about getting Martin Clarke back and pay him a decent salary for a decent job - it should reap rewards in future years as well as the present.
Quotethey never approached the clubs for one penny to do it.
What a load of shite...every club in Down is still paying for the Marshes...dont get me wrong Club Down did a fantastic job but the clubs (well most of the them) continue to contribute handsomely to the costs......do your homework before you come out with statements like this...when I say most clubs ....some clubs have refused to contribute and it is a constant bugbear at Co Board meetings why these clubs arent being sanctioned.
Quote from: 5 Sams on August 18, 2007, 09:53:52 PM
Quotethey never approached the clubs for one penny to do it.
What a load of shite...every club in Down is still paying for the Marshes...dont get me wrong Club Down did a fantastic job but the clubs (well most of the them) continue to contribute handsomely to the costs......do your homework before you come out with statements like this...when I say most clubs ....some clubs have refused to contribute and it is a constant bugbear at Co Board meetings why these clubs arent being sanctioned.
Sorry 5Sams, what exactly did I say that is "a load of shite". Maybe you should read it again. If you know anything about Park Esler you will know that the costs to which SOME clubs are contributing relate to the debts run up by the county board long before CLlub Down was formed. Club Down was formed at the request of the countychairman of the day because the county could'nt afford to do anything more with the park and Club Down agreed to take on that task provided the county board took repsonsibility for their own debt.
I know from my own club that the county board have never issued a proper statement since then showiung exactly how much the clubs have paid and to what extent that debt has been reduced.That clubs are still saddled with old debt is a disgrace but the clubs dont seem to want to rock the county boad boat about this.
I read the Club Down statement of aims and it makes it clear that they volunteered to take on the job of finishing the park and again I know that they raised huge money for this without seeking any from the clubs. Credit wher it is due pal - they delivered on what they promised and more than that gave us a county ground to be proud of.
My point that this is not properly appreciated in the county is well demonstrated by your own misdirected abuse.
If we are ever going progress beyond reflecting on our "5 sams" we need a few better informed people to start with.
Sorry Leo....you have obviously misunderstood what I have said.....whether it be "pre", "post" or "during" the sterling efforts made by Club Down....the fact is that the clubs in Down are still being levied a substantial annual payment to pay for work done to the Marshes.....I was at the initial meeting when the clubs were informed (not asked) that they would have to foot the bill...so I stand by what I said.....
"they never approached the clubs for one penny to do it" = a load of shite.
Oh and by the way when you say
QuoteIf we are ever going progress beyond reflecting on our "5 sams" we need a few better informed people to start with.
Couldnt agree more....theres more people than Club Down financing the work going on in the county......the large majority of clubs in Down can take credit for helping with the development of the Marshes.
Quote from: 5 Sams on August 19, 2007, 01:57:07 PM
Sorry Leo....you have obviously misunderstood what I have said........so I stand by what I said....."they never approached the clubs for one penny to do it" = a load of shite.
My point was that Club Down never approached the clubs for one penny - that cannot be denied and is not a lod of shite. I happen to agree with the disgrace of the situatuion that the clubs have allowed to be foisted upon them of a debt that doesn't seem to have been reduced to any extent afetr all these years. It's up to the clubs to challenge this situation.The initail work that was done at Park Esler was clearly not properly budgeted for and the clubs are carrying the can for that. The Club Down notes in one of the recent match programmes I read acknowledged the contribution of the clubs as well as the contribution of all others involved inth project.
The substantail annual levies you talk about - has anybody totted them up and looked at what impact they have made on the debt? Does anyone know what the debt is? Have the clubs had the full picture on this?
Club Down only came into exsitence long after the problem arose and at least seem to have budgeted properly for what has been done since.
Now that Newcastle is to be sold will the clubs THIS TIME make sure that similar control will be exercised over those funds?
I don't know what you are trying to make out but we really do have problems. While the Marshes is a wonderful achievement and credit to the CLUBS of Down and others benefactors for financing it I believe we should have had other priorities.
Give me the choice of a great ground or an Ulster title, with minors coming behind to back this up, and I know which one I would choose. Club Down should have been given the remit of developing footballers, not a football pitch. As much as it is wonderful, great, magnificent and all that crap - I'd rather have a Down team capable of competing for Ulster titles, not just making up the numbers; a Down Minor team with a proper management (not the clowns who have been re-appointed for yet another year and previously won an All - Ireland because of the work done in schools) and a proper development structures beginning in Primary Schools and taking this all the way through to Minor level.
The Bryansford money might now provide what Club Down should have been providing. We might actually catch up with the rest of Ulster now.
That's not what Club Down were asked to do. They were given a remit and did it - so it beats me why there is such negativity towards them in a county with failure written all over it in so many other areas.
The Bryansford money might not come good for a number of years if at all as there are so many ifs and buts. The county should now focus onon its priority needs and get the help of Club Down in financing it. To that extent I agree with you but dont blame Club Down for not doing something they werent asked to do.
Finance is only a tiny part of the equation, you cant buy All Irelands or even Ulsters. We need our current crop of Co.players to take a long hard look at themselves, ask if they have the desire motivation and commitment,to make the required sacrifices to attain any level of success,and the backbone and ruthlessness to go for it. The management team also need to ask the same questions of themselves. If an honest commitment is forthcoming from players and management, then everything else, organisation finace etc. will fall into place.
Quote from: Pangurban on August 20, 2007, 02:34:49 AM
Finance is only a tiny part of the equation, you cant buy All Irelands or even Ulsters. We need our current crop of Co.players to take a long hard look at themselves, ask if they have the desire motivation and commitment,to make the required sacrifices to attain any level of success,and the backbone and ruthlessness to go for it. The management team also need to ask the same questions of themselves. If an honest commitment is forthcoming from players and management, then everything else, organisation finace etc. will fall into place.
Your last piece is interesting. Are you saying if Down started winning on the field everything would be rosy in the garden? Down winning matches at any level is not going to increase the brain cell count of our present County Board nor is it going to get rid of them so please explain?
Quote from Wobbler...Down winning matches at any level is not going to increase the brain cell count of our present County Board nor is it going to get rid of them so please explain?.
Wobbler Them as you term our current Co.Board, are people who were democratically elected by the delegates from the clubs within the Co. If they fail in their duties then they can just as easily democratically disposed off. My contention,based on experience is that a successful Co.team, has a galvanising effect within the Co., producing more enthusiasm and initative at all levels, including the Co. Board. There is always a trickle down effect which benefits the clubs. Sponsorship is more easily attained at all levels due to the raised profile of our games within the Co.and beyond. A winning Co.team inducing a mood of confidence within the Co. to the extent that what formerly appeared as insurmountable problems become mere issues to be resolved.
Quote from: wobbller on August 22, 2007, 10:30:09 AM
The musical chairs will continue whether we are winning or losing but the term " fail to prepare,prepare to fail" apllies to administrators as well as players so the windfall we hope/need to receive would be better in capable hands as opposed to the musical chair brigade that is doing the rounds in the "powers that be " in our County.Time will tell but we need new blood to the top table and its associated committees.
When the possibility of Newcastle being sold came up the County Board employed Peter Quinn – ex GAA President to act on their behalf – he was the one that made the presentation to the clubs last week – he is the one dealing with any interested parties.
I think employing Peter Quinn was a very good move and the county board should be given credit for this and one I feel will pay off – we could not ask for the windfall to be in any better capable hands, than in the hands of the man that redeveloped Croke Park
Surely it's not about money ???
Peter Quinn didnt address Bryansford Gaels last week and he was brought into the table by Bryansford not the County Board who are now looking credit for getting him involved.
Eugene Grant QC got Quinn in when it was realised that the County Board were holding talks behing Bryansford's back with prospective buyers.
Quinn has been a mediator in all dealings.
yez deserve all the bad luck yez get - after all your current county teams plight is part of the curse brought upon yourselves for voting with the uneducated in the rule 21 disaster !
;)
And who might "chucky ned"be?
Quote from: wobbller on August 22, 2007, 02:25:24 PM
and L'derry.
while I was only joking
you kind of emphasise my point here :(
I think to be fair to Sean Og his involvement with the team would have been as an administartor only - correct me if I am wrong. His current job as I understand it is as paid administrator for the county and that means doing his masters bidding so it is unfair to demonise him - and in any event this is getting all a bit personal.
We all know that we have been badly served by county board as a whole these past few years but the Clubs have the power to change this and teher seems to me to be no effort on their part to do this. They should be getting their delegates together to come up with a plan for revitalising the way the county is run. Inevitably this might mean some senior officers losing their positions but anyone with the good of Down GAA at heart will accept that blood must be spilt.
buy out martin clarke's contract and potential earnings for the next decade- that would be a good starting point. ::)
Quote from: wobbller on Today at 02:25:24 PM
and L'derry.
while I was only joking
you kind of emphasise my point here
Lynchboy ignore Wobbler, you could be right given that we allowed the PSNI hurling team into Pairc Esler without even consulting the Shamrocks club! Heard they were greater hurlers well use to wielding "sticks" at Gaels! ;)
My reference to L'd was in jest also.
Letting the PSNI into Newry was a stunt supported by no one I know in Down.
Lighten up Wobbler we're only having a bit of craic. ;)
On a more serious note and in support of Sean Og, not saying the guy is blameless or even that he may be out of his depth but in his defence he tried his best to instigate some changes in relation to hurling in the county and was almost "lynched" by the powers that be. In fairness what he was proposing and the steps he wanted to take where supported by many hurling people in the county and it was from these meetings that the first meaningful steps towards hurling development squads where taken. It can often be a case of don't shoot the messenger and I'd say that Sean Og has little or no influence on the direction the county is taking, it would be akin to Nicky Brennan telling Mulvihill in his heyday how to run the GAA on a day to day basis - surely the "paid offical" should eb the expert and be providing the advice to the "volunteer" in the county board position, not the other way around.
The meetings he had this year with the Hurling fraternity seemed by all accounts good for all present but the ideas were not carried forward.They(the CB) can't even manage to brings ideas to fruition . How will they manage the millions they hope to receive when the Newcastle lottery cheque is picked up?
The Gael is back!
I have watched with interest the last while and decided not to comment but THE GAEL can no longer idly stand by.
Change is essential as the musical chairs anology is correct.
We get the same people in different roles , our finances were messed up and all of a sudden we may suddenly get a windfall and i hope from the highest bidder not some sort of old pals deal.
We need to look at our clubs and encourage the capable to get involved and take ownership.
Some of our officers at the highest level well ................. maybe some things are better left unsaid.Would Sean Quinn let them in control of millions in his company!!!!??
Has Peter Quinn carried out any sort of investigation or audit into how Down got into this financial position?
The sale of Newcastle has been the saviour of this administration which has done nothing to prepare for the future wellbeing of our gaelic games in a once proud county.We should be all aware of this and make a concerted effort in our clubs to get the capable involved at county level.Keeping the status quo is not an option.
I would be more interested and relieved if Peter Quinn was in some way a trustee of the money received from the highest bidder ( and a transparent bidding process too) and was very much to fore after the sale of Newcastle and the use of the money.
I hope both Down and the'ford retain Quinn for afterwards.
Down needs transparency!
The Gael takes no prisoners !
Welcome back Gael,we have missed you
I don't of agree with thegael but he's right, we need to keep Peter Quinn involved in all the dealings with the potentail buyers and developers bidding for Newcastle and also in the developement of any new facilities.
If Bryansford club had the foresight to get Peter Quinn involved we can only thank them for showing the county board the right way to do business.
Boys,talk of Peter Quinn remaining on in this end of Ireland is wide of the mark.We are not talking about some retired teacher who has time on his hands but a leading Irish businessman.He'll sort Newxastle to the auction stages and then leave it up to Down( and Bryansford) to sort out the windfall.
Peter Quinn's advice doesn't usualy come cheap.
Eugene Grant is costing nothing at all - he is a ex-ford player winning a Ulster Club medal in the late sixties and playing for them in Croke Pk in an All Ireland club final - he also had a spell with the county team in the seventies.
Came back in the early nineties to assist Michael Hanly run the senior team and was well got with the players.
He is known as 'Squire' to club members.
Buckets of disrespect Downies, but shouldn't this thread be in the local section, Admin? ;)
Sure it's not about money is it ??
Quote from: 5iveTimes on August 23, 2007, 12:39:54 PM
There would be very little I wouldnt know about Eugene. A good Down man and one of the best barristers in the country, but his advice usually doesnt come cheap ;)
If he gets the best deal for Down and Bryansford it'll be money well spent.
The direction this discussion has taken explains precisely why Down GAA is a basket case - from persoanl attacks on Sean Og to questions about Eugene Grant's assistance to Bryansford (which presumably they asked for) shows we are more interested in personalities then practicalities. Grant played for Bryansford and now he turns up helping them secure the future of the club? Shock horror!
Get a grip ouyt there. The issues are HUGELY more important.
I'm with Leo on the personalities. I have come across Sean og, Peter Quinn and Eugene Grant in my time and ,like us all, they have positives and negatives. For what it's worth, IMO Sean og is probably the pick!
If Down is to benefit from this windfall and use it for a proper training base to prepare County teams capable of winning at all levels we will need leadership, professionalism, commitment and single-mindedness. Money must be accounted for and the days of stuffing fivers into bags, with no proper receipts, abolished for good. Development of facilities will need the advice of paid professionals.Players must be treated fairly and mentally and physically coached.Hurling needs more attention but we must be conscious of demands on dual players- after under 16 a player should focus on one sport alone. All of this needs a 5-10 year plan and managers should be given what they need for a 3 year term.The most important AI is always the next one !
5 year plans, facilities, sack the board, transparency. This thread is full of buzz words and bullshit.
When the clubs start producing county standard players again, we will be a force again. Until then, we won't.
5times --I usually agree with most of your posts but the Sean Og rant is a bit OTT.We should stick to our future and not dwell on the past although your point on the socks I would also disagree with also.The GAA directives were clear at the time about team presentation and the possibility of fines,etc and only this year our Senior Footballers were subject to fines of ?000Euro for various disdemeanours during the course of the Championship.Somebody has to pay so Sean Og would have been right in his actions at that particular time.
A good football reply 5times and this what we shoud be talking instead of the goings-on of committees.
Quote from: 5iveTimes on August 23, 2007, 11:09:54 PM
Quote from: wobbller on August 23, 2007, 11:00:32 PM
5times --I usually agree with most of your posts but the Sean Og rant is a bit OTT.
It may be a bit OTT, but I have no time for the man. Did he ever kick a ball in his life?
He probably never lifted a hurl either (a bit like most hurling board chairmen) but that doesn't mean he can't be a good administrator.
I am aware that his duties with the footballers under POR was lot more than the PRO job he was supposed to hold and that was wrong, however he may well have the right tools for the admin side of the job. The direction we take on the development of hurling and football has to be decided by those with a knowledge and interest in those codes and whatever needs done on an organisational level should be sorted by the full time officer.
you are exactly right wobbler, we just dont have the players at the minute, especially defenders. clubs definitely need to work on coaching, but then again its the same old story of people not willing to help out with underage teams anymore. this is a much bigger problem in the county than anyone cares to notice. it is very evident in my own club.
also, correct me if im wrong, but i definitely dont think there are as many hard players in down football as there used to be. this is also reflected in the county team. there was a time when down had 6 or 7 players that would have gone through a brick wall, but not anymore.
I'm glad you're starting to realise at last that the necessary players are not there at the moment - but they will arrive - menwhile Down will compete.
I wonder if the style of refereeing in Down is impacting upon the way our defenders play, covering the space rather than attack the Ball or the Man in possession. Forwards in Down Club football at the moment can win frees fairly easily as referees seem to frown on any hard physical contact,even it is within the rules. Just a thought, what say you
Well, ye did reach an All Ireland final :)
In 2008, Down bate Tyrone over 2 games - Tyrone went on to win Sam that September.
Down were very near winning the AI in 2010.
Division one for 2016. Target achieved according to Mc Corry. It depends on your perspective whether things have improved or not.
Down never got the team that beat Kerry in 2010 QF on the field again.
Quote from: thewobbler on August 23, 2007, 10:42:43 PM
5 year plans, facilities, sack the board, transparency. This thread is full of buzz words and bullshit.
When the clubs start producing county standard players again, we will be a force again. Until then, we won't.
But you not think that clubs are been put through the ringer regards developing players? Not sure of the situation in Down but I'd worry in Monaghan regards the direction the county development squads are heading.
From U14 up we have large development squads and gradually each year they are taking up more time with players. It seems all players with potential are drafted into these squads. Don't get me wrong, i'm not against them and its great for players to be put into an environment where they are tested at a high level and against similar standard players.
However, it is taking away from clubs. Give a 14/15/16 year old a county top and he thinks he has it made. He could be on a development squad up to minor and onto top of club, he has a ball of football played. From a squad of 50 players at U14, maybe 20 of them will be on the minor squad down the road. The rejection and disappointment has an impact. Plus they are impressionable at those ages and between that and schools football, you can suddenly find the club been 3rd choice.
It can be hard to the club to get these players back at times and their development can suffer. I seen Monaghan minors this year and to see what was happening was shocking. They trying to minor a Donegal style with two corner forwards playing in defence. This isn't developing players in my eyes. Its happening at club level too but that comes back to the clubs and there own choices on mgt and how they develop teams. I lot of work at development squad levels seem to be shooting fish in a barrel - they would be happy to get 3/4 players per year from a development set up from 40/50 players through to senior. The rest are left back at clubs and having been through the system, will they really push themselves to go again?
I read recently about Kilkenny hurling clubs been met by Brian Cody and he spelled out how he seen hurling been played by Kilkenny and they bought into this. In his eyes it worked for anyone. It is probably similar to Cross with a structure across the board from underage up. Consistency in Management is one thing that these two teams have that other counties/clubs may lack.
We have to be very careful about who is developing the players or soon clubs will be a second thought for players. Its hard for coach to handle players nowadays without knowing that 2/3 of his best players will be missing at underage level, has a huge impact on team training and morale in a young squad.
Quote from: Bingo on July 14, 2015, 11:43:35 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 23, 2007, 10:42:43 PM
5 year plans, facilities, sack the board, transparency. This thread is full of buzz words and bullshit.
When the clubs start producing county standard players again, we will be a force again. Until then, we won't.
I read recently about Kilkenny hurling clubs been met by Brian Cody and he spelled out how he seen hurling been played by Kilkenny and they bought into this. In his eyes it worked for anyone. It is probably similar to Cross with a structure across the board from underage up. Consistency in Management is one thing that these two teams have that other counties/clubs may lack.
The Kilkenny model from senior squads, right the way down through all the underage intercounty teams, development squads work on a very similar basis. All players are expected to play with their clubs throughout the year. Development squads supplement the clubs, not becoming the be all and end all like in some counties.
There's a picture doing the rounds of Richie Hogan being double marked in a club game, and they're still in the championship, albeit not for another month or so, but Cody is adamant that club games go ahead as much as possible to ensure his players are getting plenty of competitive action rather than running the shite out of them round Nowlan park to justify the expenses of him and his backroom staff..
Surprised more counties, hurling and football don't seem to think this method would work for them!